**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 11 02:59:56 2008
Feb 11 03:17:32 <ny7owl> My N800 running OS 2008 recently stopped downloading applications via the app installer, I can still install using apt-get.
Feb 11 03:17:53 <ny7owl> I would like to fix the installer, anyone see this ?
Feb 11 03:44:18 <leif__> what does the log say? (Menu -> Tools -> Log...)
Feb 11 04:15:20 <ny7owl> which log
Feb 11 04:17:34 <GeneralAntilles> Menu -> Tools -> Log... in Application Manager . . .
Feb 11 04:17:54 <ny7owl> sorry saw that after just looking at it now
Feb 11 04:25:34 <ny7owl> Thanks, for some reason the internal card got remounted read only
Feb 11 04:26:18 <Tama^2> read or write errors
Feb 11 04:26:53 <ny7owl> that doesn't sound reassuring. Is there a log for that somewhere ?
Feb 11 04:26:59 <Tama^2> run dosfsck against it
Feb 11 04:27:03 <Tama^2> dmesg
Feb 11 04:27:20 <Tama^2> type dmesg in the console
Feb 11 04:29:07 <GeneralAntilles> Probably corrupted.
Feb 11 04:29:09 <GeneralAntilles> N810?
Feb 11 04:29:17 <ny7owl> n800
Feb 11 04:29:49 <GeneralAntilles> Read only typically means the filesystem is corrupted
Feb 11 04:29:51 <GeneralAntilles> Check it.
Feb 11 04:49:59 <fysa> elb: It shuts hildon down first, but yes, it's setup very well.  When you end the KDE session, it dumps you back into hildon.
Feb 11 05:25:39 <leif__> regarding my earlier comments about klavier: i was mistaken
Feb 11 05:26:04 <leif__> it does fill the screen, but it also puts a toggle switch for itself in the statusbar panel
Feb 11 05:26:50 <leif__> so it is actually usable with hildon/matchbox for providing input to xforwarded apps after all
Feb 11 05:28:01 <leif__> and to local apps, too, even though klavier is itself being xforwarded
Feb 11 05:49:41 <gm> is there DGA support in maemo?
Feb 11 05:49:54 <gm> seems to be missing files and there's no package in the repository
Feb 11 06:34:51 <Epeloon> Hi
Feb 11 06:35:29 <Epeloon> i have a question about wireless connecting using PEAP. Can someone help me with that? Thanks.
Feb 11 06:35:57 <johnx> What's the question?
Feb 11 06:36:05 <Epeloon> Thanks
Feb 11 06:36:28 <Epeloon> I used the normal wireless manager to connect to my university network
Feb 11 06:36:51 <Epeloon> which use PEAP and MSCHAPv2
Feb 11 06:37:12 <bottlecap> Hey all
Feb 11 06:37:17 <Epeloon> The connection works and i get the message: "You are connected to the network"
Feb 11 06:38:09 <Epeloon> BUT, i can't open any website. Skype sign but all my contacts are offline even if they are online, and i can't even call a normal phone number
Feb 11 06:38:37 <Epeloon> So, i get the message i'm connected but i'm not? Thank you for your help.
Feb 11 06:38:54 <johnx> I don't know much about PEAP, but there is a thread here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12343&highlight=peap
Feb 11 06:39:09 <johnx> maybe something in that thread will help?
Feb 11 06:39:21 <bottlecap> I am just going to throw this question out there and if you guys can answer it, awesome!  I am looking for flasher.app for the mac, but bleb.org is now. does anyone have a backup copy?
Feb 11 06:40:36 <Epeloon> johnx> Thanks. I've already read all the topics about PEAP on IT
Feb 11 06:40:43 <johnx> ah, sorry :/
Feb 11 06:41:03 <Epeloon> Most of them have a worst situation. They can't get the connected message. I get it but no internet :)
Feb 11 06:41:43 <johnx> Epeloon, if you run /sbin/ifconfig from the "X Terminal" line does it show you have an IP address
Feb 11 06:42:17 <Epeloon> actually, i didn't tried it much. Probably not
Feb 11 06:42:33 <Epeloon> can i use a line command to start dhcp?
Feb 11 06:42:57 <johnx> yes, but if it claims you're connected usually that means it thinks you have an IP address already
Feb 11 06:43:50 <Epeloon> hmmm... i guess so. But, some people in other websites say that even if they are connected they can't get an IP address
Feb 11 06:44:12 <johnx> well either way, it would help to see what's not working
Feb 11 06:44:43 <Epeloon> so, if i use ifconfig and i get no ip, what can i do in this case?
Feb 11 06:45:00 <johnx> you could try to run udhcpc -i wlan0 as root
Feb 11 06:45:15 <johnx> and see what error it gives
Feb 11 06:46:20 <Epeloon> ok
Feb 11 06:46:26 <Epeloon> i'll do it tomorrow and see
Feb 11 06:46:32 <Epeloon> i hope i'll get some errors
Feb 11 06:47:11 <johnx> good luck
Feb 11 06:47:18 <Epeloon> Thanks john
Feb 11 06:47:23 <Epeloon> good night
Feb 11 06:48:03 <johnx> 'night
Feb 11 06:48:08 <bottlecap> Hey johnx do you have any idea where I could find that program flasher.app?
Feb 11 06:48:18 <johnx> not really
Feb 11 06:48:22 <johnx> all Linux machines here
Feb 11 06:48:50 <johnx> it looks like archive.org has a copy of the website but not '770flasher-2.0.dmg'
Feb 11 06:51:01 <bottlecap> yeah.
Feb 11 06:51:17 <bottlecap> I have never felt like "damn all I have are Mac boxes" except for now
Feb 11 06:51:34 <johnx> you can use the command line app without problems...
Feb 11 06:51:40 <johnx> it's just one command
Feb 11 06:51:44 <bottlecap> O
Feb 11 06:52:12 <bottlecap> I've tried both of the command line flashers and they give me error messages,
Feb 11 06:52:14 <Epeloon> is it here no? http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php
Feb 11 06:52:17 <bottlecap> yup
Feb 11 06:52:17 <Tama^3> bottlecap: I use VMware on my mac to run the linux flasher
Feb 11 06:52:28 <johnx> isn't there a CLI app?
Feb 11 06:52:31 <Tama^3> yes the mac os one is broken
Feb 11 06:52:35 <bottlecap> Tama ohhhhhhhh
Feb 11 06:52:36 * johnx might be confused
Feb 11 06:52:43 <Tama^3> at least it does not work for me
Feb 11 06:52:56 <johnx> nevermind then :(
Feb 11 06:53:04 <bottlecap> Thanks though Johnx
Feb 11 06:53:23 <Tama^3> it barf about not recognizing the device type
Feb 11 06:53:30 <johnx> sure, though I'm 0 for 2 today in terms of actual helpfulness...
Feb 11 06:53:30 <bottlecap> yup yup
Feb 11 06:53:50 <Tama^3> I suspect it does not support N8x0
Feb 11 06:54:45 <bottlecap> I have an 770 that I want to put the OS2007HE on
Feb 11 06:56:40 <bottlecap> I am downloading Ubuntu to boot off of that then use the linux installer
Feb 11 06:57:05 <johnx> for a 770 the Nokia command line flasher might work
Feb 11 06:57:20 <bottlecap> oh?
Feb 11 06:57:33 <johnx> it's worth a try
Feb 11 06:57:56 <bottlecap> the one that's just labeled "flasher"
Feb 11 06:58:16 <bottlecap> on the mac os x?
Feb 11 06:58:35 <johnx> yeah, I think it's 'flasher-2.0.macosx'
Feb 11 06:58:44 <bottlecap> yeah that one fails too :(
Feb 11 06:59:20 <johnx> that one *should* work on the 770
Feb 11 07:00:55 <bottlecap> I get this error message
Feb 11 07:00:56 <bottlecap> USB device found found at bus 003, device address 005-0421-0105-00-00
Feb 11 07:00:56 <bottlecap> Sending request 0x01 failed: Unknown error: -1
Feb 11 07:00:56 <bottlecap> NOLO_REQ_GET_STATUS: Invalid argument
Feb 11 07:00:56 <bottlecap> Device status query failed
Feb 11 07:04:16 <johnx> http://www.tonotono.net/ua/nph-.cgi/000000A/http/www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2006/12/14/nokia-770-voip.html
Feb 11 07:04:34 <johnx> ^ that guy seems to get the same error unless he holds down the home button during the flash ^
Feb 11 07:09:49 <bottlecap> cool I'll check it out
Feb 11 07:09:51 <leif__> yeah i saw an n810 flashed with flasher-2.0.macosx recently, just had to hold down the home button while turning it on
Feb 11 07:12:25 <bottlecap> Yeah I still fail, it sucks but in 2 minutes I'll have a live version of Ubuntu
Feb 11 07:12:55 <bottlecap> but it's also 1AM here so I think I'm going to pack it in for the night, thanks for all the help all
Feb 11 07:13:09 <johnx> sure, no problem
Feb 11 07:13:17 <johnx> I wish that my help was actually helpful
Feb 11 07:13:29 <bottlecap> you pointed me in the right direction and that works for me johnx
Feb 11 07:13:34 <johnx> :)
Feb 11 07:13:54 <johnx> g'night
Feb 11 07:20:10 <sfire> I am considering buying a n800 and I would like to know if any of you know if its compatible with the motorola razor cell phone?  I have the data package with my service and want the n800 to get the internet service it needs through it
Feb 11 07:21:49 <johnx> I don't have a razr (or any bluetooth phone) but it seems like it is compatible based on what people are posting here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/
Feb 11 07:22:19 <Proteous> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/BluetoothDUN
Feb 11 07:22:28 <Proteous> not the most up to date list but good to check out
Feb 11 07:22:45 <johnx> I imagine whether you can let the N800 access the internet through your phone may depend on the data plan you have and whether it supports 'tethering'
Feb 11 07:24:54 <sfire> is this channel mostly for development issues or just the maemo platform in general?
Feb 11 07:25:16 <jku> sfire, it's the only one, so...
Feb 11 07:25:23 <Proteous> little bit of everything
Feb 11 07:25:34 <johnx> well, no one's told me to shut up yet, so I assume anything goes...
Feb 11 07:26:30 <Proteous> lol
Feb 11 07:27:21 <sfire> I'm just kinda feeling it all out before I purchase one.. Been using linux for about 6 years now and saw the n800 and instantly wanted it
Feb 11 07:28:05 <sfire> does anyone here happen to know the wireless chipset used?
Feb 11 07:28:18 <timely> sfire: i think wikipedia has decent docs
Feb 11 07:29:10 <timely> (or not)
Feb 11 07:29:12 <sfire> I've looked there but doesn't seem to have much info
Feb 11 07:29:57 <timely> actually, some of its information is wrong
Feb 11 07:30:04 <jku> sfire it's conexant
Feb 11 07:30:06 <timely> it lists os as 2007, it should list 2007/2008
Feb 11 07:30:25 <timely> (imo)
Feb 11 07:30:58 <jku> sfire cx3110 is the model IIRC
Feb 11 07:31:22 <sfire> ahhh cool it works in monitor mode :)
Feb 11 07:31:36 <leif__> afaik the wireless driver is not completely open
Feb 11 07:31:44 <leif__> but yes, monitor mode does work
Feb 11 07:32:16 <johnx> and with a patch enough of Linux WE 18 can be enabled to make wpa_supplicant happy
Feb 11 07:33:04 <leif__> huh? i think the ITOS does WPA without wpa_supplicant
Feb 11 07:33:20 <leif__> what is WE 18?
Feb 11 07:33:38 <johnx> leif__, it does, but for some really odd WPA setups you may need wpa_supplicant
Feb 11 07:33:53 <johnx> WE 18 is wireless extension version 18
Feb 11 07:37:04 <leif__> oh i see on ITT someone explains that 'The N800 offers TTLS security out of the box. But it allows only the authentification protocols "EAP-GTC", "EAP-MSCHAPv2" and "MSCHAPv2" in combination with TTLS.'
Feb 11 07:37:19 <sfire> I commonly use a wireshark (network analyzer) would that be something that can be ported easily?  (sorry if n00b question)
Feb 11 07:37:25 <leif__> ... "Nokia doesn't support PAP with TTLS in any of their mobile devices."
Feb 11 07:38:18 <leif__> i haven't seen a port of wireshark, but it seems like it shouldn't be difficult
Feb 11 07:38:29 <jku> sfire, I believe it's working already (not sure if anyone packaged it)
Feb 11 07:39:24 <sfire> I may be able to ditch my laptop and just use this :)
Feb 11 07:40:18 <Proteous> it works pretty nicly for anything that doesn't need a keyboard
Feb 11 07:40:51 <johnx> ah, is wireshark the thing that used to be called ethereal?
Feb 11 07:40:56 <sfire> yes
Feb 11 07:40:56 <leif__> yeah
Feb 11 07:41:09 <johnx> aaah...BTW just installed wireshark in Debian on the N800
Feb 11 07:41:31 <sfire> thanks johnx.. that just sealed it.. I'm going to order one right now
Feb 11 07:41:33 <leif__> johnx, are you using a chroot with a vncserver?
Feb 11 07:42:01 <johnx> sfire, hey, check whether it works in the default ITOS first...
Feb 11 07:42:09 <johnx> I don't want to mislead you...
Feb 11 07:42:16 <leif__> i tried that once but something broke when I apt-get upgraded and I haven't got around to trying again
Feb 11 07:42:18 <johnx> leif__, nope, just booting Debian off of an SD card
Feb 11 07:42:32 <leif__> what?!
Feb 11 07:42:34 <leif__> i didn't realize that was possible yet
Feb 11 07:42:39 <sfire> it can run the full debian?
Feb 11 07:42:56 <leif__> still with nokia's kernel though, right?
Feb 11 07:43:11 <johnx> leif__, still built from Nokia sources but with some more things enabled
Feb 11 07:43:31 <johnx> sfire, well, that's what I'm working on...it's kind of rough because some of the power saving stuff is closed source
Feb 11 07:43:53 <johnx> my wiki if anyone is interested: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian
Feb 11 07:44:06 <leif__> wow
Feb 11 07:44:07 <leif__> thanks!
Feb 11 07:44:13 <sfire> bookmarked :)
Feb 11 07:44:27 <rm_you> johnx: i still need to set that up
Feb 11 07:44:51 <johnx> and there are other people getting maemo packaged nicely for Debian...so I fully intend to have my cake and eat it too :)
Feb 11 07:45:01 <leif__> yeah, i've seen that...
Feb 11 07:45:11 <leif__> too bad so much of the ITOS isn't open source :(
Feb 11 07:45:53 <johnx> it's not *that bad* ... but yeah, a lot of the things make me really angry
Feb 11 07:46:13 <johnx> "Does your brightness applet really contain that much proprietary information?!"
Feb 11 07:46:15 <leif__> I really wanted our LCARS theme to run on other devices, but the left side of the main "elbow" part consists of a bunch of closed source plugins to hildon-navigator
Feb 11 07:46:25 <rm_you> johnx: lol, was just going to say that :P
Feb 11 07:46:42 <leif__> it isn't proprietary information... it is just that they wrote it in-house
Feb 11 07:46:51 <leif__> most of the open packages from nokia weren't started by them
Feb 11 07:47:04 <johnx> really? I thought they started hildon and maemo?
Feb 11 07:47:16 <zuh> johnx: What level of video support are you planning on achieving?
Feb 11 07:47:18 <leif__> well maemo is an umbrella over the whole thing, yes.
Feb 11 07:47:34 <michele_> johnx: most of the user apps have no point in being closed. I think they do so mostly to not have to support having a community, which always a good chunk of work.
Feb 11 07:47:50 <timely> maemo doesn't really know what it is
Feb 11 07:48:02 <johnx> zuh, hmm?
Feb 11 07:48:03 <zuh> johnx: Or better yet, audio...
Feb 11 07:48:12 <michele_> johnx: you have to deal with lots of people in the mailing list telling you how to do this and how to do that
Feb 11 07:48:13 <leif__> hildon is the main thing they started that is open
Feb 11 07:48:27 <leif__> but almost all of hildon-desktop's plugins aren't!
Feb 11 07:48:42 <timely> hey, isn't there a hello-world that's open? :)
Feb 11 07:48:53 <leif__> on the left side, the menu that lists apps is the only open one
Feb 11 07:49:05 <johnx> zuh, Nokia's x server is open source. The Debian guys will package it eventually (or maybe someone else will) but for now I just repacked the .deb with the right dependencies. It works fine
Feb 11 07:49:18 <zuh> Well I guess video (Xv support to be exact) isn't a biggie, as the Xomap would be possible to assimilate into debian, but what about those nice gstreamer dsp plugins that, although being open source, one cannot recompile?
Feb 11 07:49:23 <johnx> audio...I'm working on. It involves borrowing a lot of Nokia's close source stuff
Feb 11 07:49:38 <zuh> Yeah
Feb 11 07:50:15 <rm_you> johnx: video == necessity :P
Feb 11 07:50:18 <johnx> zuh, I'm mainly concerned with making this work so that it's attractive enough that other people get interested in handling some of those "little details"
Feb 11 07:51:06 <johnx> leif__, yeah, I'm running into more and more of that as I go :/
Feb 11 07:51:17 <leif__> i was looking at their calculator app... the engine behind it is LGPL, so of course their GUI is closed
Feb 11 07:51:47 * zuh would appreciate at least user-space OSS solution for audio, the decoder sinks are basically worthless anyway
Feb 11 07:52:30 <rm_you> johnx: ouch... is the DSP code closed? for basic mp3 decoding?
Feb 11 07:52:31 <sfire> I use Kontact currently.. will it synchronize with that?
Feb 11 07:53:13 <timely> leif__: do you want the source for the calculator app?
Feb 11 07:53:31 <timely> the app really isn't that great, you're much better served writing your own
Feb 11 07:53:50 <leif__> lol
Feb 11 07:53:54 <leif__> not really the point
Feb 11 07:53:59 * timely shrugs
Feb 11 07:54:07 <timely> there are a limited number of eyeballs
Feb 11 07:54:12 <timely> i'd rather they find something useful to fix
Feb 11 07:54:29 <timely> writing a new calculator would be more useful than trying to fix the one that already exists
Feb 11 07:54:35 <timely> not to mention you'd need a new ui design
Feb 11 07:54:38 <leif__> does it need fixing?
Feb 11 07:54:54 <johnx> top
Feb 11 07:55:02 <johnx> gah...wrong windows :/
Feb 11 07:55:16 <leif__> before i realized how closed the whole thing was, i thought maybe i could run most of the ITOS on non-nokia hardware
Feb 11 07:55:21 <timely> leif__: i'm not a fan of various behaviors in the calculator
Feb 11 07:55:34 <leif__> i don't really care about the calculator as much as all the plugins for hildon-desktop
Feb 11 07:55:45 * timely chuckles
Feb 11 07:55:46 <zuh> rm_you: All dsp tasks are closed, yes. The GStreamer plugins that use them are open, but depend on proprietary headers so you can't recompile them... One would think that it's a breach of the license but dunno...
Feb 11 07:56:00 <timely> zuh: eh?
Feb 11 07:56:04 <timely> that sounds odd
Feb 11 07:56:16 <timely> i'm also waiting for someone to replace the browser tn plugin with something non sucky
Feb 11 07:56:39 <michele_> zuh: which license are they?
Feb 11 07:56:41 <johnx> leif__, I was actually in the same boat as you. I was thinking the Cxx00 Zaurus for alternate hardware. What were you thinking about?
Feb 11 07:57:36 <johnx> timely, the whole browser UI? honestly if I do anything I'll probably try and hildonize epiphany webkit...
Feb 11 07:57:51 <timely> johnx: well, that too
Feb 11 07:57:57 <timely> but i only mean the task navigator plugin
Feb 11 07:58:08 <timely> which is basically this odd bookmarks beast
Feb 11 07:58:42 <timely> johnx: and you say the whole browser ui as if there's a lot to it
Feb 11 07:58:44 <leif__> well i don't have another handheld in mind currently; I just wanted to run it on my desktop for now
Feb 11 07:59:04 <leif__> but there are those Intel MIDs which will already be running hildon...
Feb 11 07:59:16 <johnx> I think people are more likely to rewrite things differently than to try and make functional replacements for Nokia closed source stuff...
Feb 11 07:59:21 <timely> leif__: maybe intel will make a better ui :)
Feb 11 07:59:38 <timely> johnx: you make it sound like that's a bad thing
Feb 11 07:59:48 <zuh> michele_: lgpl
Feb 11 07:59:52 <johnx> it's just a lot of work for a small amount of devs...
Feb 11 08:00:02 <timely> don't get me wrong, i don't want people to go off and reimplement things bug for bug
Feb 11 08:00:03 <leif__> intel's desktop was flash-based last I checked
Feb 11 08:00:18 <timely> be innovative, compete, win, profit!
Feb 11 08:00:19 <leif__> (which was a while ago)
Feb 11 08:00:25 <zuh> timely: Here's the last message on the subject: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-November/012675.html
Feb 11 08:00:31 <jku> johnx, exactly, especially as "replacing" is often impossible or just difficult because N guys didn't think about it...
Feb 11 08:00:40 <timely> jku: eh?
Feb 11 08:00:49 <timely> it's definitely possible to replace a tn plugin
Feb 11 08:00:57 <zuh> which reminds me that they *did* turn it to compilable, but in a way that they are useless
Feb 11 08:01:21 <timely> heh
Feb 11 08:01:22 <johnx> timely, The Zaurus situation was similar and I think everyone can agree that too many subtly incompatible projects by too small a number of devs is a bad outcome
Feb 11 08:01:22 <jku> timely, I've been playing with GPS (and all the closed location libs)
Feb 11 08:01:23 <zuh> Which is nice
Feb 11 08:02:00 <timely> anyway, i need to find someone to talk to about the other elephant
Feb 11 08:02:09 <johnx> hmm?
Feb 11 08:02:12 <timely> so which of you actually have zaurus's?
Feb 11 08:02:25 <johnx> lots of us :)
Feb 11 08:02:31 <johnx> I have two
Feb 11 08:02:37 <johnx> a 5500 and a C1000
Feb 11 08:03:02 <timely> johnx: see invite
Feb 11 08:03:35 <leif__> timely, what is this other elephant?
Feb 11 08:06:45 <rwhitby> c700
Feb 11 08:06:53 <timely> first rule of fight club... don't talk about fight club :)
Feb 11 08:09:44 <rm_you> I have a 5500
Feb 11 08:09:47 <rm_you> got it late tho :/
Feb 11 08:09:56 <rm_you> too late in the cycle of things to be useful :(
Feb 11 08:10:07 <johnx> rm_you, the 2.6 kernel is still coming along for it
Feb 11 08:10:10 <rm_you> lol
Feb 11 08:10:23 <johnx> I can boot and get a shell even :)
Feb 11 08:10:26 <rm_you> i found it the other day in the boxes in the corner of my room
Feb 11 08:10:35 <rm_you> i couldnt find the power cord though :(
Feb 11 08:10:55 <johnx> that's good...if 2.6 support gets better I might buy a used 5500 that's not as broken as mine
Feb 11 08:11:11 <rm_you> and if i remember correctly, it was at the point that if i unplugged it with a full charge in the battery, it would die somewhere between 1 and 5 seconds later
Feb 11 08:11:36 <johnx> yeah, I think mine has an internal short somewhere :|
Feb 11 08:14:06 <timely> ouch
Feb 11 08:16:16 <timely> jku: so i take it that the location stuff isn't very usefully plugable ?
Feb 11 08:20:19 <jku> timely: well, they're not really meant to be pluggable (so I wasn't mislead or anything). I was replacing gpsd with another gps daemon. This is difficult (even though osso-gpsd is actually open)
Feb 11 08:20:28 <b0unc3> good morning
Feb 11 08:20:39 <johnx> mornin' b0unc3
Feb 11 08:20:47 <jku> timely, mostly due to gpsdriver hooks
Feb 11 08:22:21 <jku> timely, as an example: libgpsbt and libgpsmgr are good ideas basically, but they're not pluggable and since they're now closed I can't add support for another gps daemon
Feb 11 08:25:33 * timely frowns
Feb 11 08:25:37 <timely> this is too abstract for me
Feb 11 08:25:44 * timely wonders what a gpsdriver hook is
Feb 11 08:26:19 <jku> gpsdriver is not running all the time, something starts it
Feb 11 08:26:32 <jku> somthing being gpsmgr AFAIK
Feb 11 08:26:54 <jku> but gpsmgr starts gpsd, and I can't change that
Feb 11 08:27:25 <jku> (and I'd like to not start gpsd)
Feb 11 08:27:39 <timely> you can't replace gpsd w/ your own evil d?
Feb 11 08:29:58 <jku> the binary? I guess if I wanted to, and even setting GPSD_BIN (or whatever the env variable was) to /bin/true works, but it's fairly hacky
Feb 11 08:30:39 * timely frowns
Feb 11 08:30:48 <timely> an env var doesn't seem fairly hacky in my book
Feb 11 08:30:55 <jku> well ,
Feb 11 08:30:55 <timely> you'd rather make everyone read a gconf setting?
Feb 11 08:31:04 * timely isn't a gconf fan
Feb 11 08:35:02 <jku> Well' since I really wanted to just start gpsdriver, I think I shouldn't have to take care of not starting gpsd...
Feb 11 08:35:50 <jku> I found some functions in gpsctrl.h that seem to do the trick though, so np
Feb 11 09:07:36 <_collin_> hi
Feb 11 09:46:00 <AD-N770> bon dia / good morning
Feb 11 09:46:23 <hrw> morning
Feb 11 09:46:28 <solmumaha> morning
Feb 11 09:46:33 <threethirty> hello all
Feb 11 09:46:33 <hrw> ~curse maemo bug 2763
Feb 11 09:46:34 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, maemo bug 2763 !
Feb 11 09:47:50 <threethirty> is there a way to browse samba shares graphicly (like in gnome)?
Feb 11 09:48:05 <jumpula> konqueror?
Feb 11 09:48:14 <jumpula> if you mean in kde
Feb 11 09:48:31 <jumpula> but probably not, so i'll just continue idling :)
Feb 11 09:49:01 <johnx> threethirty, for non-password protected shares it works out-of-the-box in OS2008 file manager
Feb 11 09:49:24 <jumpula> (of course you meant in maemo)
Feb 11 09:49:43 <hrw> johnx: and only browse and copy
Feb 11 09:50:00 <hrw> you cant open file which you browse in other apps
Feb 11 09:50:08 <johnx> hrw, oh, there are more limitations as well...don't get me started
Feb 11 09:50:37 <hrw> in other words - they do something but only partially
Feb 11 09:50:44 <johnx> If I was going to be picky I'd say how unhappy I was with gnomevfs as a whole
Feb 11 09:51:05 <solmumaha> can you write to the share?
Feb 11 09:51:13 <hrw> and the totally crappy implementation of i18n
Feb 11 09:51:33 <threethirty> jonx:what about os2005, i think thats what im running i have a n770, but i bought it from a buddy of mine so i have no clu what it is runnig
Feb 11 09:51:51 <johnx> aaah...
Feb 11 09:51:54 <hrw> threethirty: 770 can run os2006
Feb 11 09:52:02 <inz> And os2007he
Feb 11 09:52:04 * johnx doesn't have a 770
Feb 11 09:52:07 <inz> neither of which supports samba
Feb 11 09:52:10 <hrw> worth upgrading as os2005 is forgotten by most of people
Feb 11 09:52:31 <inz> There's pretty much 0 software for 2005
Feb 11 09:52:59 <hrw> os2006 is also forgotten but by smaller amount of devs
Feb 11 09:53:54 * hrw waits until n810 decides that it is time to boot
Feb 11 09:54:01 <solmumaha> threethirty: for os2006 there's smbfs and samba client that allows you to mount shares
Feb 11 09:55:41 <inz> solmumaha, by whom?
Feb 11 09:56:04 <solmumaha> smbfs + smbbrowser
Feb 11 09:57:05 <solmumaha> i believe those worked when i tried them
Feb 11 09:57:10 <inz> oh
Feb 11 09:57:24 <inz> I have packaged one set of samba, but never had any samba shares to test them on
Feb 11 09:57:40 <inz> And never got any report from anyone whether they worked or not
Feb 11 09:57:56 <solmumaha> i guess no news is good news
Feb 11 09:58:18 <inz> p'haps
Feb 11 09:59:35 <solmumaha> fuse with gui would be nice on tablet
Feb 11 10:00:11 <johnx> is there a fuse GUI for desktop Linux?
Feb 11 10:00:16 <threethirty> does anyone here think installing kde on tis thing would 1 work and 2 solve my not finding good sotware issue
Feb 11 10:00:25 <inz> I also have a gnomevfs2 package that should fix scp and add smb support to gnome-vfs
Feb 11 10:00:32 <inz> For it2006
Feb 11 10:00:53 <solmumaha> threethirty: what are you missing?
Feb 11 10:01:46 <solmumaha> i can't imagine kde on 770 being a good idea
Feb 11 10:02:26 <_collin_> I think the problem is that there is no os2008 for the 770, right?
Feb 11 10:02:50 <_collin_> so people look for other options
Feb 11 10:03:08 <threethirty> alot of stuff i run across isnt compatable, i feel a little like the fat kid in gym class
Feb 11 10:03:40 <solmumaha> threethirty: try installing repositories from http://gronmayer.com/it/
Feb 11 10:03:54 <threethirty> i heard that someone ported os2008 to the 770 but im too chicken to install it
Feb 11 10:04:31 <inz> whaat?
Feb 11 10:05:25 <timely> johnx: but hey, it's gnome, gnomevfs will be replaced by gvfs :)
Feb 11 10:06:39 <johnx> gvfs? hmm?
Feb 11 10:07:08 <timely> http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/09/28/gnome-2-22-planning-gio-and-gvfs-proposed-for-inclusion
Feb 11 10:07:23 <timely> people have already asked mozilla.org when we're adding support for yet another unstable api
Feb 11 10:07:30 <inz> timely, yeah, my hardy already has gvfs
Feb 11 10:07:31 <threethirty> oops running outta ram ty everyone
Feb 11 10:08:05 <johnx> fuse > *, IMNSHO :P
Feb 11 10:08:42 <timely> oh how nice
Feb 11 10:08:50 <timely> they're considering a fuse bridge for gvfs
Feb 11 10:08:59 <timely> if so, i think i'll wontfix the mozilla.org bug
Feb 11 10:09:27 <timely> can anyone here offer a reason not to do that? :)
Feb 11 10:13:28 <Jaffa> 7
Feb 11 10:13:32 <Jaffa> x
Feb 11 10:13:34 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Feb 11 10:15:47 <johnx> timeless, well ok, I'm sold on GVFS
Feb 11 10:15:56 <timely> i'm not selling
Feb 11 10:16:04 <timely> but it'd be nice to see gnomevfs go the way of the dodobird
Feb 11 10:16:39 <johnx> yeah, really...everything is a file...except for these files
Feb 11 10:18:23 <leif__> johnx, what is the result of the lacking power management pieces in your debian system?
Feb 11 10:18:48 <johnx> leif__, not really tested scientifically
Feb 11 10:18:57 <leif__> is the battery able to charge?
Feb 11 10:19:42 <johnx> battery seems to charge
Feb 11 10:19:55 <johnx> at least enough to keep it running indefinitely
Feb 11 10:20:55 <johnx> there's a patch for letting the x server do screen blanking
Feb 11 10:21:27 <leif__> and the cpufreq scaling works?
Feb 11 10:21:31 <johnx> yeah
Feb 11 10:21:55 <johnx> but I have no idea if DVFS is low enough in the kernel that it will "just work" or if it needs some kind of signal or what
Feb 11 10:25:41 <leif__> i'm not quite ready yet, but i'd definitely like to try this out
Feb 11 10:30:29 <lardman> morning
Feb 11 10:30:37 <johnx> mornin'
Feb 11 10:36:17 <jku> hi lardman, have you tried making sense of nvd_data?
Feb 11 10:36:29 <lardman> jku: no, was a bit busy doing DSP stuff
Feb 11 10:36:38 <jku> I spent a while looking at it yesterday, and it was more difficult thatn I thought
Feb 11 10:37:00 <lardman> have you worked out the size of the chunks of data?
Feb 11 10:37:24 <jku> it looks like plain ints and IEEE floats, but I couldn't find anything that would match a timestamp or coordinates...
Feb 11 10:38:08 <jku> lardman: B1 probably has 32 sections of 108 bytes, like we thought
Feb 11 10:38:28 <jku> starting at second byte IIRC
Feb 11 10:39:01 <jku> gah, just tried to poke the screen with my finger
Feb 11 10:39:06 <lardman> lol
Feb 11 10:39:48 <johnx> jku, on your tablet or your desktop?
Feb 11 10:40:00 <jku> johnx, desktop
Feb 11 10:40:09 <johnx> aaah...that's a problem
Feb 11 10:40:13 <LoCusF> http://maemo.org/midcom-permalink-ee3fcbe4d7f711dcb281effac4ac7a757a75 <- wohoo
Feb 11 10:42:49 <johnx> LoCusF, very cool. A lot of people will be pleased to see a .deb for that
Feb 11 10:43:09 <pupnik> can you be more specific
Feb 11 10:43:43 <johnx> about who wanted to see a .deb of that?
Feb 11 10:43:57 <pupnik> yes that url yields a server error 500
Feb 11 10:44:25 <johnx> after you get the error, change the 2007 to 2008 in the location bar :)
Feb 11 10:44:26 <pupnik> oh openttd
Feb 11 10:45:04 <LoCusF> oh, didn't know that url didn't work
Feb 11 10:45:31 <LoCusF> sorry :)
Feb 11 10:45:54 <LoCusF> one of my favourite games ever
Feb 11 10:46:41 <pupnik> does it require a commercial game to run?
Feb 11 10:46:51 <LoCusF> yeah
Feb 11 10:46:54 <LoCusF> at least the files
Feb 11 10:48:43 <glass> i was at a jazz concert last week.. reminded me so much of tt :)
Feb 11 10:49:12 <solmumaha> we really need a tablet gaming site
Feb 11 10:49:35 <pupnik> ITT: Gaming
Feb 11 10:49:46 <solmumaha> with good instructions and install files
Feb 11 10:50:04 <solmumaha> gronmayer for games
Feb 11 10:50:06 <pupnik> it gets on average 5 posts a day
Feb 11 10:50:18 <pupnik> oh
Feb 11 10:51:15 <LoCusF> just installed enigma :)
Feb 11 10:51:34 <solmumaha> pupnik: want to package warzone2100? :)
Feb 11 10:51:59 <hrw> guys: which maemo component handle clock applet? and is it open of nokia?
Feb 11 10:53:30 <johnx> the package is osso-clock-applet I think
Feb 11 10:54:55 <pupnik> solmumaha: one minute
Feb 11 10:54:59 <hrw> so no sources ;(
Feb 11 10:55:06 <hrw> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/os2008/free/o/ does not have it
Feb 11 10:55:07 <lardman> jku: I'm away on holiday at the end of the month, so am trying to get stuff finished (both dsp stuff and day job stuff), not sure I have enough time to do nvd_data hacking before I go
Feb 11 10:55:10 <leif__> no, and not for osso-clock either
Feb 11 10:55:18 <lardman> s/end of the month/end of the week
Feb 11 10:55:21 <pupnik> solmumaha: yes, i could use the practice
Feb 11 10:55:23 <johnx> hrw, I think that means you're out of luck
Feb 11 10:55:30 <leif__> osso stands for "Open Source Software Operations" right?
Feb 11 10:55:45 <hrw> leif__: not quite rather
Feb 11 10:56:02 <johnx> leif__, don't think about it too hard...
Feb 11 10:56:06 <hrw> or maybe it had "WB" in front (as Wanna Be)
Feb 11 10:56:06 <leif__> yeah
Feb 11 10:56:31 <hrw> "Wanna Be Open Source Software Operations" sounds better
Feb 11 10:56:59 <johnx> but not very pronounceable in any language I know...
Feb 11 10:57:07 <johnx> WBOSSO!
Feb 11 10:57:37 <solmumaha> pupnik: it's a bitch to package, you'd need packages for openal/alut, physicsfs etc
Feb 11 10:57:40 <hrw> name with 'Boss' inside ;D
Feb 11 10:57:58 <johnx> wireless boss operations?
Feb 11 10:58:05 <leif__> lol
Feb 11 10:58:50 <solmumaha> anyone know if it would be possible to put libs on memory card along with the data files and use LD_LIBRARY_PATH on startscript?
Feb 11 11:00:41 <lardman> assuming the no-exec option doesn't hurt it, then yes it should work
Feb 11 11:01:11 <solmumaha> yes, i was wondering if libs need to be executable
Feb 11 11:01:21 <lardman> ah, I'm not sure about that, sorry
Feb 11 11:01:38 <solmumaha> but in theory at least
Feb 11 11:02:21 <lardman> certainly I use LD_LIBRARY_PATH in scripts to point to a vfp libm and it all works nicely
Feb 11 11:03:32 <michele_> ironically, osso is "bone" in italian
Feb 11 11:06:43 <solmumaha> is there a script to browse for a dir in postinst and would it be then possible to install stuff on memory card or does app manager allow that?
Feb 11 11:06:46 <pupnik> solmumaha: have that already
Feb 11 11:07:00 <solmumaha> nice
Feb 11 11:07:43 <solmumaha> then you could try that LD_LIBRARY_PATH hack
Feb 11 11:12:16 <michele_> when the screen blanks while using skype for voice, I get hiccups in the voice and then the screen turns back on... quite annoying
Feb 11 11:17:49 <blahdeblah> Does anyone here play Crazy Parking?  One level 10 game is driving me nuts!  :-(
Feb 11 11:19:12 <pupnik> solmumaha: installing libs to /usr/local worked fine.  it's just the music that segfaults here
Feb 11 11:19:40 <pupnik> have you gotten music /sound effects yet?
Feb 11 11:19:57 <solmumaha> nope
Feb 11 11:20:05 <|tbb|> morning all
Feb 11 11:20:38 <johnx> morning |tbb|
Feb 11 11:22:16 <solmumaha> pupnik: not sure it's good to include certain libs with the game
Feb 11 11:22:50 <solmumaha> without making separate packages of them at least
Feb 11 11:23:28 <blahdeblah> Anyway, if anyone can give me hints about this Crazy Parking game, i'd appreciate it:  http://paulgear.webhop.net/images/screenshot00.png
Feb 11 11:24:53 <solmumaha> blahdeblah: http://www.theiling.de/projects/rushhour.html :)
Feb 11 11:25:38 <blahdeblah> solmumaha: Way cool - thanks.
Feb 11 11:32:27 <solmumaha> blahdeblah: if you like crazy parking, you could try to solve this: http://www.wsoyoppimateriaalit.fi/valitunti?nimi=NAME (requires java)
Feb 11 11:32:39 <solmumaha> it has a very camp ending
Feb 11 11:33:57 <solmumaha> who knows, maybe the level you love is included
Feb 11 11:34:13 <LoCusF> reporting that playing Transport Tycoon Deluxe on n810 works but stresses your eyes very much :)
Feb 11 11:46:16 <pupnik> hmm maemo vmware sdk has no nfs server
Feb 11 11:48:20 <pupnik> solmumaha: i do have a user-imposed scratchbox disk size limit to prevent me from starting too many projects :)
Feb 11 11:48:56 <pupnik> my os2006 project directory has ~200 entries
Feb 11 11:49:01 <solmumaha> :)
Feb 11 11:49:54 <solmumaha> maybe you shouldn't start new projects anymore
Feb 11 11:50:24 <lardman> Right, X gurus present?
Feb 11 11:50:50 <lardman> Do I need to do anything special to an X window to allow the framebuffer to be written to and then overwrite that window?
Feb 11 11:51:00 <solmumaha> i can package it, but i still have that segfault on start issue even though i removed the music
Feb 11 11:53:36 <MoRpHeUz> lardman: if you are writing directly to the framebuffer you do not need an X window...
Feb 11 11:53:36 <lardman> I.e. are X windows buffered, or if any part is invalidated, does the app need to rewrite the contents of the invalid region (assuming this is the right terminology for X11)
Feb 11 11:53:58 <lardman> MoRpHeUz: indeed, but if I don't put up something, the data I write are overwritten almost immediately
Feb 11 11:54:11 <MoRpHeUz> lardman: sure.... =)
Feb 11 11:54:20 <lardman> so I can change various parts of the desktop to pretty colours, butr most is changed back before I see the effects
Feb 11 11:54:27 <pupnik> lardman: if you write directly then x doesn't register any dirty buffers
Feb 11 11:54:52 <pupnik> so afaik mplayer creates a fullscreen then blithely blits to it
Feb 11 11:55:00 <lardman> So i should be able to create a simple X window, and then write ontop of it?
Feb 11 11:55:43 <pupnik> from my reading of ssvb's discussions with daniel on the dev list, this works, but is a violation of all kinds of standards
Feb 11 11:56:20 <pupnik> see the mplayer on n800 discussions back around may of 2007
Feb 11 11:56:33 <pupnik> or april or june, not sure
Feb 11 12:00:23 <lardman> pupnik: yep, sounds good to me
Feb 11 12:00:40 <lardman> pupnik: I just want to be able to test the bloody thing :)
Feb 11 12:01:11 <pupnik> drawing with dsp?
Feb 11 12:01:17 <lardman> yep
Feb 11 12:01:27 <maddler> hey all!
Feb 11 12:01:29 <pupnik> fun!
Feb 11 12:01:31 <pupnik> hi
Feb 11 12:01:32 <lardman> I'm wondering if the framebuffer stuff that ssvb does in some way alters the X window to stop if from being refreshed, or some other
Feb 11 12:02:56 <hrw> does Jiøí Benc do #maemo irc?
Feb 11 12:03:21 <wumpus> you can draw to the screen from the dsp?!
Feb 11 12:03:39 <mib_e6lf0g0p> I'm trying to get a basic EAL example to compile can anyone help? All i want is a window with an embedded browser.....
Feb 11 12:03:52 <lardman> wumpus: yes, but not very well
Feb 11 12:04:26 <wumpus> how is the lcd controller accesses from the dsp then?
Feb 11 12:04:40 <lardman> map the framebuffer then write to the memory
Feb 11 12:04:46 <wumpus> does it also map the registers in some way?
Feb 11 12:04:56 <lardman> there is then a kfunc() command that I think should be called, but it doesn't seem to work
Feb 11 12:05:19 <lardman> wumpus: not sure if the mapping is abstracted at all
Feb 11 12:05:32 <lardman> wumpus: on the arm-side are the registers exposed in the framebuffer memory?
Feb 11 12:07:21 * hrw wants to know what hildon-input guys were smoking
Feb 11 12:07:42 <dpb_> Everything available?
Feb 11 12:07:56 <hrw> hardware keyboard layout is X11 stuff, virtual keyboard is HildonInput stuff
Feb 11 12:08:02 <mib_e6lf0g0p> I've checked out the EAL docs on the garage website, but they're giving too much away. I'm not even sure what package to install to get the gweb.h header.
Feb 11 12:08:11 <hrw> you can select virtual one and this change also hardware one
Feb 11 12:08:16 <mib_e6lf0g0p> *NOT giving too much away*
Feb 11 12:08:29 <hrw> with hardware one you also have 'Chr' virtual keyboard..
Feb 11 12:08:58 <lardman> wumpus: my impression is that the kernel maps framebuffer memory, but the registers need to be accessed though specific calls
Feb 11 12:09:00 <hrw> dpb_: thats the question...
Feb 11 12:09:59 <lardman> wumpus: first thing is to be able to actually draw in a reasonable manner (i.e. to the whole screen rather than left over, non-updated bits) then look at how to change the format, etc.
Feb 11 12:10:43 <zuh> lardman: Nokia has this Xsp extension through which you can specify an area for framebuffer usage, telling X not to touch it
Feb 11 12:11:30 <lardman> zuh: ah, that might be something I need to fiddle with then I suppose
Feb 11 12:12:39 <lardman> the other problem I'm seeing is that the DSP is complaining when I call the fb update function
Feb 11 12:13:00 <lardman> It's a toss up whether it's this that's stopping anything from coming out, or something to do with my window
Feb 11 12:14:00 <lardman> Curiously if I write to the framebuffer (with no X window) and don't call the fb update function, some parts of the desktop do change colour (i.e. round the edges, bits that aren't updated too often), so something must be calling the framebuffer update function
Feb 11 12:15:01 <wumpus> lardman: but the framebuffer is virtual right?
Feb 11 12:15:09 <lardman> yes
Feb 11 12:15:35 <wumpus> so it needs to keep the state somewhere which parts of the framebuffer were overwritten
Feb 11 12:15:53 <wumpus> and only those will be updated on the actual lcd
Feb 11 12:16:06 <lardman> I'm not sure, I thought that was the job for higher level components like X11
Feb 11 12:16:35 <lardman> presumably data in the framebuffer memory will simply be sent to the actual framebuffer on the lcd controller when you call the update function
Feb 11 12:16:36 <wumpus> I don't think so, but has been a while I looked in this blizzard.c drivers
Feb 11 12:16:43 <lardman> no matter what the data or their state
Feb 11 12:16:43 <wumpus> not the entire data
Feb 11 12:16:49 <lardman> ok, some part of it
Feb 11 12:16:58 <wumpus> I think it really keeps track of which part you changed
Feb 11 12:16:59 <wumpus> indeed
Feb 11 12:17:09 <lardman> but the framebuffer doens't keep track, that's for X11 to do
Feb 11 12:17:16 <lardman> then you tell it what part to send?
Feb 11 12:17:19 <wumpus> and there's also like 3 update modes I remember
Feb 11 12:17:41 <wumpus> probably
Feb 11 12:17:57 <wumpus> anyway, it's an interesting concept to have the dsp write into it
Feb 11 12:18:19 <lardman> interesting, just doesn't really make sense atm
Feb 11 12:21:04 <pupnik> cd daggerfall_remake/
Feb 11 12:22:03 <pupnik> du // 194436
Feb 11 12:22:41 <solmumaha> daggerfall remake? :)
Feb 11 12:23:26 <pupnik> someone has spent a lot of time on this
Feb 11 12:23:41 <pupnik> Chad Cuddigan
Feb 11 12:24:37 <solmumaha> there's actually a project?
Feb 11 12:24:46 <pupnik> yah 'dungeonhack'
Feb 11 12:24:57 <pupnik> testing under wine right now
Feb 11 12:26:26 <|tbb|> is it possible to save streams while playing it with built in - media-player-engine?
Feb 11 12:27:53 <pupnik> awesome hahahaha "It's dangerous to go alone!  Take this!"
Feb 11 12:28:32 <pupnik> it's not a strict remake / engine but it's excellent so far solmumaha  - give it a try - based on the Ogre engine
Feb 11 12:29:28 <pupnik> nothing for the tablets though
Feb 11 12:31:14 <solmumaha> windows only?
Feb 11 12:33:11 <pupnik> not sure - but ogre3d supports linux/opengl
Feb 11 12:33:33 <pupnik> he's got the procedural landscapes and the scripting engine worked out, and a sample quest - no time to play
Feb 11 12:33:49 <pupnik> http://dungeonhack.uesp.net/wiki/Main_Page
Feb 11 12:34:28 <zuh> lardman: There's indeed three modes for the fb: UPDATE_DISABLED (presumably "off"), AUTO_UPDATE (where I guess the fb driver somehow keeps track of changes, or just waits for a sync?) and MANUAL_UPDATE (in which the user (==Xomap) needs to tell when and which portion of the screen is updated)
Feb 11 12:39:15 <lardman> zuh: ah, that's good, so perhaps it displays as it was doing auto update
Feb 11 12:40:15 <lardman> It looks like the frame buffer update needs to be from task TID_ANON
Feb 11 12:43:50 <pupnik> oh man, someone got MAME playing starwars vector game... on an oscilloscope
Feb 11 12:45:13 <|tbb|> anyone knowing a umpc with linux os?
Feb 11 12:45:55 <hrw> |tbb|: any x86
Feb 11 12:46:49 <|tbb|> i mean where nearly all features (hardware related) work also.
Feb 11 12:51:55 <|tbb|> better a umpc which is shipped with linux by default
Feb 11 13:01:23 <lardman> ah, I see what I'm doing wrong
Feb 11 13:01:24 <lardman> muppet
Feb 11 13:01:31 <lardman> Will test over lunch time
Feb 11 13:07:06 <michele_> :)
Feb 11 13:07:15 <michele_> kinda funny to have mac os running on the tablet
Feb 11 13:07:23 <michele_> too bad I can't get 8.1 to work
Feb 11 13:11:05 <pupnik> is the basilisk port using the cyclone core?
Feb 11 13:11:25 <michele_> you mean the JIT?
Feb 11 13:11:40 <pupnik> i have no idea whether it has a JIT
Feb 11 13:12:01 <michele_> it does, but (obviously) doesn't work on the IT
Feb 11 13:12:24 <michele_> the version people are using and porting is an older one before the JIT got introduced
Feb 11 13:12:35 <pupnik> afaik 'cyclone' is an arm-optimized 68000 core
Feb 11 13:12:38 <michele_> that said, I don't know what "cyclone core" means
Feb 11 13:12:48 <michele_> oh I see
Feb 11 13:13:12 <pupnik> incorporating that into the mac and amiga emus is a TODO
Feb 11 13:14:44 <glass> iirc yes too
Feb 11 13:19:55 * michele_ curses people putting multi-volume rar archives inside zips... HELLOOO this is 2008!
Feb 11 13:21:25 <hrw> michele_: D
Feb 11 13:21:28 <hrw> ;D
Feb 11 13:21:35 * hrw curse hildon input
Feb 11 14:03:42 <hrw> who use scandinavian keyboard layout with n810?
Feb 11 14:04:03 <jku> hrw, I do
Feb 11 14:04:19 <hrw> jku: how you get oslash char?
Feb 11 14:04:36 <jku> oslash?
Feb 11 14:04:43 <hrw> jku: according to keymap it is on right from "M" key
Feb 11 14:04:57 <hrw> jku: let me find it on my keyboard..
Feb 11 14:05:25 <jku> ahh, that's not the same in finnish layout -- we have o with two dots
Feb 11 14:05:38 <hrw> jku: combine "o" with "/" into one == oshals
Feb 11 14:05:41 <hrw> oslash
Feb 11 14:05:57 <jku> oslash is there on the keyboard
Feb 11 14:06:00 <hrw> jku: ö you mean?
Feb 11 14:06:05 <jku> yeah
Feb 11 14:06:21 <hrw> that key has: oslash, equal and ö
Feb 11 14:06:49 <hrw> I know how to get ö,=,Ö but no idea how to get small/big oslash
Feb 11 14:07:22 <hugolp> can anyone confirm that the N800 doesnt charge throug the USB?
Feb 11 14:07:33 <hrw> hugolp: none of nokia tablets do that ;(
Feb 11 14:07:35 <Tak> hugolp: it doesn't charge via usb
Feb 11 14:08:39 <hugolp> its a shame. Is there a reason?
Feb 11 14:09:03 <hrw> jku: idea?
Feb 11 14:09:11 <GeneralAntilles> Because USB wouldn't provide enough juice to charge quickly?
Feb 11 14:09:11 <kpel> hi all
Feb 11 14:09:13 <hrw> jku: same situation is with next key.
Feb 11 14:09:27 <GeneralAntilles> Also: because of USB host-mode support.
Feb 11 14:09:28 <hugolp> GeneralAntilles:  depending wich box
Feb 11 14:09:39 <GeneralAntilles> Assuming USB spec: 500mA
Feb 11 14:09:46 <GeneralAntilles> The bundled wall-wart is 890mA
Feb 11 14:09:49 <hrw> jku: its 'ae', apostrope and also ä
Feb 11 14:10:39 <jku> hrw I assume setting norwegian language would change to oslash and ae instead of ä and ö?
Feb 11 14:10:44 <hrw> jku: no
Feb 11 14:10:55 <Tak> Ø
Feb 11 14:11:23 <hrw> jku: press key - you will get ä or Ä. with Fn you will get -. but with blocked Fn + Shift its AE
Feb 11 14:11:45 <hrw> but how to get small ae?
Feb 11 14:12:35 <jku> oh
Feb 11 14:13:44 <hrw> right
Feb 11 14:14:03 <hrw> I need scandinavian user guide ;(
Feb 11 14:14:08 <|tbb|> hey jku, anything new on agps for n810?
Feb 11 14:14:35 <jku> nah, I tried reading the file format, but didn't get too far
Feb 11 14:15:10 <jku> I'm afraid I'm not much of a reverse engineer
Feb 11 14:15:51 <jku> the first section is obviously satellite-related data: 108 bytes per sat, 32 sats
Feb 11 14:17:12 <jku> I thought the last section would be last location, but can't parse it -- it looks like IEEE floats but I get nothing that looks like a coordinate...
Feb 11 14:40:57 <|tbb|> hmmh, no reply of nokia at all?
Feb 11 14:42:06 <jku> |tbb|, I haven't asked N, I think lardman may have
Feb 11 14:45:13 <pupnik> solmumaha: i still am amazed by the 3d speed of warzone @ 640x480
Feb 11 14:45:58 <solmumaha> pupnik: get over it!
Feb 11 14:46:00 <pupnik> Tak: you might be interested to check it out too.  something like 12+ fps in 3d
Feb 11 14:46:15 <solmumaha> imagine if we had opengl
Feb 11 14:46:29 <pupnik> then we'd be screaming for more texture memory :P
Feb 11 14:47:22 <pupnik> porting most opengl games to tablets would require serious work imo, since so many are targeted at PC GPUs
Feb 11 14:48:14 <lardman> Good news, drawing from dsp works fine now
Feb 11 14:48:21 <johnx> very cool!
Feb 11 14:48:47 <johnx> that is pretty neat damn neat :D
Feb 11 14:49:23 <lardman> jku: worth a post to the list to get other people looking at it?
Feb 11 14:51:07 <jku> lardman, I'll have another look at it in the next couple of days and then at least put what I have in the wiki
Feb 11 14:51:58 <lardman> jku: I'll try to take a look too
Feb 11 14:53:36 <lardman> kulve: Once again, I'm after the speed of global/private ipbuf, word and control message passing on the dsp. Looking for the best way to indicate to the dsp that a frame of data is ready to be colourspace converted and output
Feb 11 14:53:55 <lardman> kulve: iirc you had some rough figures from a long while back?
Feb 11 14:55:30 <lardman> ssvb: good news, tested output on 770, so I'll try out the colorspace conversion code this evening
Feb 11 14:59:38 <ssvb> lardman: that's great
Feb 11 15:00:26 <Tak> lardman: huzzah!
Feb 11 15:01:47 <hrw> nice
Feb 11 15:02:06 <hrw> ssvb: are you one of mplayer-maemo guys?
Feb 11 15:02:17 <lardman> hrw: he is the guy!
Feb 11 15:02:38 <hrw> thx lardman
Feb 11 15:03:26 <hrw> ssvb: is there a way to get mplayer addons as patches instead of whole svn dump? I would like to add nokia tablets stuff into OpenEmbedded
Feb 11 15:04:04 <|tbb|> lardman: what does this means for us,  drawing from dsp works
Feb 11 15:04:33 <lardman> |tbb|: yep
Feb 11 15:04:59 <pupnik> hrw diff -r orig_mplayer_svn_tree_dir nokia_mplayer_svn_tree_dir or something like that
Feb 11 15:05:17 <lardman> pupnik: I think he means as a direct download
Feb 11 15:05:20 <|tbb|> k, repost my question, what does that means for us that dsp drawing thing
Feb 11 15:05:56 <hrw> pupnik: I did. result is huge and contain misc things
Feb 11 15:05:56 <pupnik> |tbb| it means that lardman made the co-processor draw on the screen
Feb 11 15:06:05 <pupnik> i suspected as much sorry
Feb 11 15:08:25 <lardman> |tbb|: oh, did you want more explanation? As pupnik says, we can output data directly from the DSP without needing to pass it back to the ARM
Feb 11 15:09:28 <ssvb> hrw: I would prefer to submit all the patches upstream (and actually some patches got accepted already), but some of them are not completely clean, some are still 'work-in-progress', some are nokia-specific and probably not very interesting for other devices
Feb 11 15:11:09 <hrw> ssvb: even if not interesting for other devices I would push them upstream
Feb 11 15:11:31 <hrw> but mplayer devs can be real pita when it comes to patches
Feb 11 15:17:13 <ssvb> hrw: yes, mplayer devs already rejected my maemo-specific display blanking prevention code :) saying that one should support standard methods for this and if the system is broken, it needs to be fixed
Feb 11 15:18:20 <ssvb> the problem is that maemo is 'broken' in this respect and the chances to get it fixed (especially on old devices such as 770) are not very high: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1460
Feb 11 15:19:31 <hrw> maemo and getting fixed...
Feb 11 15:19:47 <|tbb|> neverending  story
Feb 11 15:19:58 * GeneralAntilles starts singing.
Feb 11 15:20:38 <|tbb|> is it possible to save a stream which is played by builtin media-player-engine?
Feb 11 15:20:54 <lardman> |tbb|: probably not very easily
Feb 11 15:22:15 * |tbb| was thinking it might not be that easy 
Feb 11 15:26:28 <ssvb> hrw: a big patch against mplayer 1.0rc1 is available for download at the garage mplayer page, I'm going to split it into separate patches when upgrading to the next upstream mplayer release (1.0rc2, or probably will wait till rc3)
Feb 11 15:30:49 <RS_Asleep> Hello :)
Feb 11 15:34:11 <lardman> ssvb: the 3 frames of data need to be left unaltered so they can be used by mplayer?
Feb 11 15:34:55 <hrw> ssvb: thx - will look at it
Feb 11 15:58:56 <ssvb> lardman: DSP needs to use 3 frames as read-only input buffers shared with ARM, ARM needs to be able to ask DSP to display any of them on screen
Feb 11 16:02:52 <ssvb> lardman: video will be directly decoded into these buffers without using anything intermediate for storage
Feb 11 16:04:18 <hrw> back to keymaps.. Russian keymap allow to use Cyrillic and Latin keys at same time. but how to get lowercase Latin letters with Russian keyboard
Feb 11 16:04:21 <hrw> ?
Feb 11 16:04:26 <hrw> ideas?
Feb 11 16:08:18 <lardman> ssvb: can I use the buffers to do my colorspace conversion or do they need to stay as mplayer wrote them?
Feb 11 16:08:58 <lardman> probably quicker to convert & copy in the same operation I suppose anyway
Feb 11 16:09:15 <ssvb> lardman: they need to remain unchanged, mplayer will use them as reference frames for decoding next ones
Feb 11 16:09:30 <lardman> ssvb: ok, that's what I thought
Feb 11 16:09:56 <ssvb> lardman: did you check if it is possible to use DMA on DSP?
Feb 11 16:11:03 <lardman> it is possible (judging from some of the Nokia code) but I'm not sure what one can DMA to and from
Feb 11 16:11:39 <ssvb> probably it is possible to pipeline color conversion into several stages: transfer a line of frame data into SRAM using DMA, do color conversion in SRAM, transfer converted line into target buffer using DMA
Feb 11 16:11:39 <lardman> the link between DSP & ARM will be a shared memory buffer
Feb 11 16:12:17 <lardman> source & target are both in slow SDRAM
Feb 11 16:13:26 <ssvb> lardman: it does not matter if DSP will be doing conversion in SRAM and DMA will be prefetching the next line simultaneously
Feb 11 16:13:37 <lardman> ah, fair enough
Feb 11 16:15:53 <pupnik> if you build libs for maemo please do not use ubuntu sources
Feb 11 16:20:12 <lardman> pupnik: who's done that?
Feb 11 16:22:18 <lardman> ssvb: using dma requires that one registers a handler to handle the interrupt that is produced when it finishes?
Feb 11 16:22:36 <pupnik> there's a tcl/tk up on debfarm.free.fr that is missing -dev libs and looks to be ubuntu
Feb 11 16:25:29 <ssvb> lardman: don't know, but generally there should be some method to know when the transfer is complete
Feb 11 16:25:51 <ssvb> lardman: in this case a preferable way would be to have some function which blocks until DMA transfer is done
Feb 11 16:26:01 <lardman> ssvb: ok, I'll have a read about it
Feb 11 16:26:22 <lardman> how is that better than just copying the data in code? faster?
Feb 11 16:26:54 <X-Fade_> lardman: I got a fix on gps when flying 800km/h ;)
Feb 11 16:27:18 <lardman> X-Fade_: careful you're nearing the limit; you might be a missle!
Feb 11 16:27:32 <X-Fade_> lardman: So that gps fix is not that bad :)
Feb 11 16:27:35 <ssvb> lardman: you can treat DMA as an extra (stupid) core, which is capable of copying data around
Feb 11 16:27:56 <lardman> ssvb: ok
Feb 11 16:28:10 <lardman> X-Fade_: how many satellites then?
Feb 11 16:28:37 <X-Fade_> I have a screenshot, let me see if I can put it up somewhere :)
Feb 11 16:29:22 <dragorn> I've got some cross-country maemo mapper logs somewhere
Feb 11 16:32:53 <X-Fade_> http://breet.com/maemo/screenshot00.png
Feb 11 16:34:47 <lardman> :)
Feb 11 16:38:12 <lardman> ssvb: yes, dma and irq stuff is in the chip support library
Feb 11 16:51:31 <ssvb> lardman: have you tried using CSL on 770/n800 before?
Feb 11 16:57:50 <pupnik> would dosbox properly fit under Sectino: accessories, other, or tools?
Feb 11 16:57:54 <pupnik> *Section
Feb 11 16:59:02 <pupnik> maybe a new section emulators?
Feb 11 16:59:27 <lardman> ssvb: no, but I don't see it being a problem; whether it's possible to use DMA & IRQ without being able to alter the dsp kernel is another question
Feb 11 17:04:07 <ssvb> lardman: do you know which one of CSL *.lib files should be used with internet tablets? there are lots of them
Feb 11 17:05:33 <lardman> 55l
Feb 11 17:05:45 <lardman> tms320c55 with long addressing mode
Feb 11 17:05:57 <lardman> or a name similar to that at least
Feb 11 17:06:12 * lardman 's files are at home
Feb 11 17:06:44 <lardman> ssvb: you planning on setting up a build?
Feb 11 17:09:26 <ssvb> lardman: I have TI toolchain installed but have not done anything serious with it yet
Feb 11 17:09:54 <lardman> ssvb: I'll send you the code I've got to do output to the screen
Feb 11 17:10:35 <lardman> ssvb: you'll have a better idea than I have of how to do speed optimisation, etc.
Feb 11 17:10:47 <lardman> plus I'm away on holiday from next week
Feb 11 17:15:07 <lardman> http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/spru433j/spru433j.pdf IRQs don't look too good for the avs_kernel
Feb 11 17:15:52 <ssvb> lardman: ok, thanks, I'll have a look at it
Feb 11 17:16:26 <lardman> actually I may be wrong, it looks like IRQ_config() can be used to update the dispatch table, will need some looking at to make sure it doesn't tread on any toes though
Feb 11 17:22:06 <lardman> ssvb: will pull together the shared memory bits & colorspace conversion code I've written and email it to you tomorrow
Feb 11 17:22:11 <lardman> cu all later
Feb 11 17:23:40 <hrw> cu
Feb 11 18:57:51 <user__> hello. anyone know if its possible to connect to a network using 802.1x with wep encryption?
Feb 11 18:59:06 <user__> nmy work has an open authentication for wep so i cant use wep w/ manual wep key entering
Feb 11 18:59:21 <Tak> user__: no, it is not currently possible
Feb 11 18:59:29 <Tak> there has been an open bug for that for over a year
Feb 11 19:00:41 <user__> yeah i know i added a comment on it i was just hoping ther was a work around..,
Feb 11 19:00:52 <Tak> I don't know of one
Feb 11 19:02:15 <user__> dang well thanks for the info
Feb 11 19:04:09 <pH5> is it normal that I have to add -march=armv6j to CFLAGS myself when compiling mplayer via dpkg-buildpackage in scratchbox?
Feb 11 19:04:56 <pH5> otherwise compilation bombs out on the armv5te optimized idct code.
Feb 11 19:06:35 <pH5> ah, perfect.
Feb 11 19:06:42 <pH5> ssvb: is it normal that I have to add -march=armv6j to CFLAGS myself when compiling mplayer via dpkg-buildpackage in scratchbox?
Feb 11 19:07:09 <ssvb> pH5: yes, it is. alternatively you can use 'make deb-n8x0' or 'make deb-n770'
Feb 11 19:08:35 <pH5> ssvb: aah, thanks.
Feb 11 19:08:47 * pH5 feels stupid now for not scrolling down debian/rules far enough
Feb 11 19:08:48 <ssvb> pH5: mplayer fails to build unless you you specify correct cpu, that's a bug, but I kept it that way because it helps preventing getting nonoptimized builds :)
Feb 11 19:09:28 <ssvb> pH5: it should probably fail with more human readable error message though
Feb 11 19:09:46 <pH5> ssvb: yeah, that would be nice for the first-time experience.
Feb 11 19:53:51 <mwaldron> GeneralAntilles hates pidgin :P
Feb 11 19:54:11 <mwaldron> (of course he's right, having no / commands is slightly annoying)
Feb 11 19:54:50 <Tak> heh, there was a proposal a while ago to add a togglable "command mode" that never went anywhere
Feb 11 19:55:23 <mwaldron> i just got used to telnetting home to boot people from my channels :)
Feb 11 20:06:05 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: GeneralAntilles?
Feb 11 20:06:15 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you: rm_you?
Feb 11 20:06:20 <rm_you> indeed.
Feb 11 20:06:31 <Tak> rm_you: GeneralAntilles?
Feb 11 20:06:35 <rm_you> lol
Feb 11 20:06:48 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: so, you wanted the code for the beta of the combo applet?
Feb 11 20:07:01 <GeneralAntilles> Meh, I was gonna modify the icon code for you
Feb 11 20:07:05 <rm_you> ah
Feb 11 20:07:56 <rm_you> Well, I was willing to give it to you, I just generally don't like to release code-in-progress, because the way i work at the moment means that it's VERY messy until i do my pre-release cleanup :P
Feb 11 20:08:12 <GeneralAntilles> So, adv-backlight-icon-<brightnesslevel>-<volumelevel>.png is the format.
Feb 11 20:08:16 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I understand.
Feb 11 20:08:31 <rm_you> i don't delete any lines, EVER :P i just comment them until I have a working release... THEN i delete the unnecessary ones :P
Feb 11 20:08:37 <GeneralAntilles> Need to either change m to 0, though.
Feb 11 20:08:39 <rm_you> i guess if i was working in SVN i wouldnt have to do it that way...
Feb 11 20:08:48 <rm_you> but i havent gotten around to setting it up yet
Feb 11 20:09:04 <GeneralAntilles> Laziness is fun.
Feb 11 20:09:15 <rm_you> laziness like this is actually HARDER >_>
Feb 11 20:09:20 <GeneralAntilles> But still fun.
Feb 11 20:09:22 <rm_you> lol
Feb 11 20:09:33 <mwaldron> nothing worth while is easy )
Feb 11 20:09:52 <rm_you> crap... what OTC meds are good for cold symptoms (eg cough, stuffy nose)? lol
Feb 11 20:10:06 <rm_you> not exactly the point of this channel, but i need to take something quickly before my next class :P
Feb 11 20:10:07 <mwaldron> whiskey
Feb 11 20:10:25 <rm_you> mwaldron: lol... i guess i could do that :P but i wouldnt learn much in the next few hours <_<
Feb 11 20:10:38 <GeneralAntilles> Dayquil!
Feb 11 20:10:42 <rm_you> lol
Feb 11 20:10:42 <mwaldron> damn, i added an e again
Feb 11 20:10:46 <GeneralAntilles> and or Nightquil!
Feb 11 20:10:47 <rm_you> lets see what I have...
Feb 11 20:11:00 <GeneralAntilles> s/Night/Ny/
Feb 11 20:11:00 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: and or Nyquil!
Feb 11 20:11:18 <GeneralAntilles> Snorting warm saline is effective, too.
Feb 11 20:11:20 <rm_you> hrm....
Feb 11 20:11:27 <rm_you> Ibuprofen... less than helpful
Feb 11 20:11:28 <pupnik> will metalayer crawler (media crawler whatever) have problems if I symlink something from MyDocs to /media/mmc1 ?
Feb 11 20:11:43 <rm_you> antihistimine pills (generic allergy OTC)... maybe
Feb 11 20:11:44 <GeneralAntilles> I also recommend gargling the hottest, saltiest water you can stand.
Feb 11 20:11:47 <Tak> shouldn't, as long as there's no loop
Feb 11 20:12:08 <rm_you> a bottle of Captain Morgan...
Feb 11 20:12:09 <rm_you> hrm
Feb 11 20:12:43 <GeneralAntilles> Everything
Feb 11 20:12:46 <GeneralAntilles> pour it all in together
Feb 11 20:12:47 <GeneralAntilles> drink.
Feb 11 20:12:54 <mwaldron> wake up in a week feeling better
Feb 11 20:13:01 <GeneralAntilles> or dead
Feb 11 20:13:05 <GeneralAntilles> either way, no more cold!
Feb 11 20:13:08 <mwaldron> exactly
Feb 11 20:13:21 <rm_you> but then who would maintain adv-backlight? >_>
Feb 11 20:13:29 <`0660> Ibuprofen + coffee ~= most cold and flue medicines
Feb 11 20:13:54 <mwaldron> wow, we brought it full circle back to on topic
Feb 11 20:14:02 <rm_you> :P
Feb 11 20:14:22 <GeneralAntilles> Seriously, try gargling hot salt water.
Feb 11 20:14:23 <rm_you> hrm
Feb 11 20:14:26 <mwaldron> is there a gui ftp client for this thing?
Feb 11 20:14:35 <rm_you> apparently I got invited to UPE (ACM honor society?)
Feb 11 20:14:39 <GeneralAntilles> Was for OS2007.
Feb 11 20:14:57 <mwaldron> that would be a no..
Feb 11 20:14:57 <rm_you> odd :P
Feb 11 20:15:12 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: i looked for 2007, never found one <_< which did you use?
Feb 11 20:15:16 <Tama^2> Hello
Feb 11 20:15:23 <GeneralAntilles> I don't remember what it was called.
Feb 11 20:15:39 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: can you link me those icons again?
Feb 11 20:15:49 <rm_you> wait nm found em
Feb 11 20:15:49 <mwaldron> there's a bittorrent client and not an ftp client. sad world we live n
Feb 11 20:15:50 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, ho, here you go! http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jualasal/gb/maemoftp.html
Feb 11 20:16:22 <GeneralAntilles> Who wants to guess how I found it? :P
Feb 11 20:16:31 <mwaldron> psychic abilities?
Feb 11 20:16:38 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Feb 11 20:16:41 <mwaldron> psychotic abilities?
Feb 11 20:17:49 <pupnik> there's lftp, the best client
Feb 11 20:17:51 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: is there a "zero" brightness level?
Feb 11 20:18:06 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, 1.
Feb 11 20:18:09 <rm_you> GAH
Feb 11 20:18:14 <rm_you> 1 indexed <_<
Feb 11 20:18:31 <rm_you> so there's 7 brightness levels, from 1-7?
Feb 11 20:18:36 <GeneralAntilles> I stole Nokia's naming scheme.
Feb 11 20:18:40 <rm_you> >_>
Feb 11 20:18:41 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah.
Feb 11 20:18:43 <rm_you> k....
Feb 11 20:18:46 <GeneralAntilles> Just rename them. :P
Feb 11 20:18:50 <rm_you> k....
Feb 11 20:18:53 <rm_you> will do :)
Feb 11 20:19:02 <rm_you> bbl, class. *MAYBE* a release tonight
Feb 11 20:19:08 <GeneralAntilles> Sounds good.
Feb 11 20:21:47 <mwaldron> hrm
Feb 11 20:21:55 <mwaldron> i downloaded package 1.7, it installed version 1.6
Feb 11 20:27:45 <MangoFusion> hey guy's
Feb 11 20:31:38 <MangoFusion> i'm having problems installing the v4 sdk. whenever i apt-get in the scratchbox, it says "E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (2 No such file or directory)"
Feb 11 20:31:41 <MangoFusion> any ideas? =/
Feb 11 20:34:14 <RS_Asleep> You logged in as root?
Feb 11 20:35:13 <MangoFusion> no
Feb 11 20:35:29 <MangoFusion> in the scratchbox
Feb 11 20:35:47 <RS_Asleep> Speaking from using debian on a PC, I only get that when I'm not logged in as root. Apart from that, I have no idea :/
Feb 11 20:36:14 <MangoFusion> naturally works fine in normal ubuntu, just not in the scratchbox
Feb 11 20:36:17 <MangoFusion> very weird
Feb 11 20:36:28 * RS_Asleep is out of suggestions then
Feb 11 20:36:30 <RS_Asleep> :D
Feb 11 20:37:26 <MangoFusion> hehe
Feb 11 20:51:23 <Fang64> uhm could use the sudo command with apt-get see if that gets you around
Feb 11 20:51:52 <mwaldron> i need to figre out the password on my sudo command
Feb 11 20:51:59 <BTobotras> Anybody IRCing from OS2008 here?
Feb 11 20:52:05 <mwaldron> i noticed yesterday it doesn't seem to be the same as root
Feb 11 20:52:06 <Fang64> should be the same as root
Feb 11 20:52:15 <Fang64> lol
Feb 11 20:52:16 <lcuk> i am looking at streamlining some *simple* dev work on the tablet.  im not after compiling masterpieces, just small examples.  does anyone know where i can get the make tools and gcc running natively on my 810.  or do i need to make the toolchain myself
Feb 11 20:52:34 <Fang64> you could edit the sudoer file
Feb 11 20:52:34 <mwaldron> i installed openssh, it made me set the root password
Feb 11 20:52:40 <lcuk> (hello everyone by the way)
Feb 11 20:52:40 <GeneralAntilles> BTobotras, http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/
Feb 11 20:52:42 <mwaldron> sudo... doesn't work
Feb 11 20:52:53 <BTobotras> GeneralAntilles: 10x!
Feb 11 20:53:04 <GeneralAntilles> sudo gainroot, mwaldron?
Feb 11 20:53:18 <lcuk> you need to install the becomeroot package as well first though
Feb 11 20:53:22 <mwaldron> i was using ssh root@localhost to do root stuff
Feb 11 20:53:22 <GeneralAntilles> user isn't a sudoer by default or somesuch.
Feb 11 20:53:23 <lcuk> available from one of the other repos
Feb 11 20:53:27 <MangoFusion> Fang64: no sudo in there
Feb 11 20:53:34 <Fang64> ah
Feb 11 20:53:51 <MangoFusion> in any case i'm just going to do a reinstall from scratch to see if that automagically fixes it
Feb 11 20:54:01 <mwaldron> GeneralAntilles: sudo asks me for password. dunno what it wants, i don't have one
Feb 11 20:54:10 <GeneralAntilles> rootme by default
Feb 11 20:54:12 <Fang64> thought he was speaking from the pc not the maemo platform
Feb 11 20:54:16 <mwaldron> oh rootme
Feb 11 20:54:18 <mwaldron> kk will try it
Feb 11 20:54:22 <GeneralAntilles> If it's not accepting that and you haven't changed it, then you need to install becomeroot.
Feb 11 20:54:42 <mwaldron> rootme didn't work
Feb 11 20:54:50 <lcuk> gen, doesnt it give you some arsey message about not wrecking device
Feb 11 20:54:51 <mwaldron> guess i need becomeroot
Feb 11 20:55:20 <GeneralAntilles> iunno, lcuk. It does something. :P
Feb 11 20:55:23 <MangoFusion> becomeroot + $sudo gainroot = :)
Feb 11 20:55:45 <mwaldron> i can ssh root@localhost, that works
Feb 11 20:56:56 <Fang64> that's bizzare
Feb 11 20:58:26 <mwaldron> i just changed root password (via ssh@localhost) and passwd, didn't change sudo
Feb 11 20:58:44 <GeneralAntilles> Fang64, no, that's normal. ;)
Feb 11 20:59:10 <Fang64> lol
Feb 11 20:59:36 <mwaldron> ok, time to fix this
Feb 11 20:59:36 <Fang64> so I take it maemo doesn't have a sudoer file like other distros
Feb 11 21:00:35 <GeneralAntilles> It does, user just isn't in it by default.
Feb 11 21:00:40 <lcuk> becomeroot package expands sudoers i think to include user
Feb 11 21:00:55 <lcuk> what GeneralAntilles said..
Feb 11 21:02:31 <Tobotras-> GeneralAntilles:  10x!
Feb 11 21:02:57 <GeneralAntilles> No, 100x!
Feb 11 21:03:25 <Tobotras-> Be my guest :-)
Feb 11 21:05:23 <mwaldron> ok, i haev becomeroot installed
Feb 11 21:05:27 <mwaldron> i can sudo gainroot
Feb 11 21:05:43 <GeneralAntilles> Now you can relax and have a cup of tea.
Feb 11 21:05:51 <mwaldron> i still can't, for instance, sudo ping
Feb 11 21:06:06 <mwaldron> mm cup of tea sounsd good actually
Feb 11 21:06:13 <mwaldron> brb
Feb 11 21:07:35 <mwaldron> tea brewing
Feb 11 21:08:41 <niteOwl> mmm tea :-) - just had a pot of upton tea - black dragon
Feb 11 21:09:05 <mwaldron> ashby's raspberry tea here
Feb 11 21:11:38 <GeneralAntilles> Sweet tea FTW!
Feb 11 21:15:19 <mwaldron> woo my screen protectors shipped
Feb 11 21:16:21 <mwaldron> ok, i did a search on this, and only found os2007 stuff, so is there a .deb anywhere for os2008 iputils? particulary traceroute?
Feb 11 21:19:52 <dcordes> screen protectors are complete evil business
Feb 11 21:19:57 <edistar|1one> dcordes: hi ;)
Feb 11 21:20:04 <mwaldron> dcordes: indeed
Feb 11 21:20:16 <pH5> mwaldron: there is iputils-tracepath
Feb 11 21:20:20 <mwaldron> dcordes: but after 15 years i've gotten used to them
Feb 11 21:20:52 <mwaldron> pH5: repository/url?
Feb 11 21:20:56 <dcordes> mwaldron: I mean the people who sell them for 10 euros on ebay ^^
Feb 11 21:21:01 <mwaldron> ah yeah
Feb 11 21:22:20 <mwaldron> foudnit
Feb 11 21:24:36 <lcuk> i wonder if you could create a pour on protective screen
Feb 11 21:24:54 <lcuk> mix, pour leave it to solidify
Feb 11 21:24:58 <pH5> spin coating! :)
Feb 11 21:25:29 <lcuk> just a thin surface layer, like a soapfilm but armor plated
Feb 11 21:28:43 <mwaldron> woo, tracepath works
Feb 11 21:28:49 <mwaldron> tomorrow i get to do the hard stuff
Feb 11 21:29:17 <tsukasa> sup guys...
Feb 11 21:29:31 <mwaldron> these guys putting up with my newb questions
Feb 11 21:29:36 <MangoFusion> bah, screen protectors
Feb 11 21:29:48 <tsukasa> you think its worth getting a n800 now or waiting for the next iteration later this year
Feb 11 21:29:57 <tsukasa> it looks pretty sexy
Feb 11 21:30:02 <MangoFusion> i tend not to dig the stylus into the screen so i tend not to use them
Feb 11 21:30:06 <mwaldron> my gf wants an 800
Feb 11 21:30:18 <mwaldron> she wants 810, but saw price and decided she could live wo keyboard
Feb 11 21:30:43 <tsukasa> anyone happen to know anything about the next one nokia is putting out
Feb 11 21:30:58 <tsukasa> if its another 810 with gps ill do without lol
Feb 11 21:31:04 <MangoFusion> my experience with my n800: started off with OS2007, thought it was great. Installed the recently released OS2008, grew frustrated, and is now sporadically used
Feb 11 21:31:11 <tsukasa> really?
Feb 11 21:31:17 <tsukasa> whats wrong with 08
Feb 11 21:31:30 <lcuk> MangoFusion, why dont you put 2007 back on then?
Feb 11 21:31:42 <lcuk> seriously, its not like it stops working just because another system just came out
Feb 11 21:31:47 <pupnik> 1 month here, perfectly stable
Feb 11 21:32:03 <MangoFusion> i'm clinging onto the vague hope that perhaps they'll fix the issues in an update
Feb 11 21:32:05 <lcuk> if it works well for YOU and you are happy with it, rebuild it how you liked it
Feb 11 21:32:18 <lcuk> they might do in time, but for now dont worry about it
Feb 11 21:32:41 <MangoFusion> true, i could just use OS2007. but i don't see much point downgrading just because the browser is slower and the finger tapping doesn't really work ;)
Feb 11 21:33:08 <pupnik> do you eat your food with your hands too?
Feb 11 21:33:12 <pupnik> jk
Feb 11 21:33:15 <MangoFusion> haha
Feb 11 21:33:17 <lcuk> but if thats what you use mostly then moving to 2008 is like moving to vista from xp
Feb 11 21:33:33 <tsukasa> the clock speeds are higher though
Feb 11 21:33:46 <tsukasa> speaking of which, is the 800/810 overclockable?
Feb 11 21:33:55 <edistar> lcuk: everything is slower?
Feb 11 21:34:14 <pupnik> yes, from 333 to 400 mhz
Feb 11 21:34:18 <edistar> tsukasa: was the n770 overclockable?
Feb 11 21:34:23 <MangoFusion> i seem to have this bad luck with tablets. they never quite turn out as i expected
Feb 11 21:34:29 <lcuk> if everything is slower then why is MangoFusion experiencing slower internet - speed is not all cpu
Feb 11 21:34:46 <edistar> lcuk: just because you are saying its like a switch to vista ;)
Feb 11 21:34:46 <tsukasa> edistar, dunno, which is why im asking
Feb 11 21:34:54 <lcuk> lol
Feb 11 21:35:11 <tsukasa> you can tweak the tcp window to compensate...
Feb 11 21:36:28 <tsukasa> there are two things nokia needs to do for me to love them eternally
Feb 11 21:36:33 <tsukasa> 1) provide a student discount T_T
Feb 11 21:36:40 <tsukasa> 2) release SOMETHING about their plans
Feb 11 21:37:11 * mwaldron feels dejavu, taken back to the palmos days. same complaints, new paltform
Feb 11 21:37:14 <lcuk> damn, i thought you were gonna say supply hookers, gambling table and plenty of scotch?
Feb 11 21:37:24 <tsukasa> haha
Feb 11 21:37:36 <tsukasa> you got web access, what more do you need
Feb 11 21:37:44 <tsukasa> vibrate function
Feb 11 21:37:58 <mwaldron> vibrating alarms...
Feb 11 21:37:58 <lcuk> mwaldron, its been the same from the spectrum days and the amiga days and the windows days and every other upgrading platform
Feb 11 21:38:07 <mwaldron> lcuk: yep
Feb 11 21:38:12 <tsukasa> speaking of which does skype + webcam not work still?
Feb 11 21:38:15 <tsukasa> i read something on that
Feb 11 21:38:21 <mwaldron> except windows. no one gives a crap :)
Feb 11 21:38:26 <MangoFusion> yes and no vibrate functionality. how can you have a cool internet tablet with voip that doesn't vibrate?
Feb 11 21:38:27 <MangoFusion> ;)
Feb 11 21:38:34 <edistar> how do I kill the maemo UI without killing xserver?
Feb 11 21:39:17 <lcuk> but people just find the right level with things.  take the humble calculator, some folks are happy with the basic 4 operator model, others want an all singing, all dancing graphing computer, am i wrong because I've kept my basic model just because a new one came out?
Feb 11 21:40:33 <mwaldron> it was all downhill after ti-85
Feb 11 21:40:51 <lcuk> lol
Feb 11 21:41:13 <mwaldron> holds a special place in my heart. first piece of consumer electronics i overclocked :P
Feb 11 21:41:18 <mwaldron> still has a place on my desk :)
Feb 11 21:42:07 <edistar> I had a casio, 9850 GB plus that I overclocked and added memory to, that was my first calc :) still works ;)
Feb 11 21:43:04 <mwaldron> i saw a hp emulator for maemo
Feb 11 21:43:09 <mwaldron> no ti though, i call discrimination
Feb 11 21:44:05 <Fang64> lol
Feb 11 21:44:51 <Fang64> anyone attempting to port a ti emulator or none the less create one?
Feb 11 21:45:36 <tsukasa> yes lets emulate a calculator >_>
Feb 11 21:45:42 <tsukasa> that sounds like a great idea
Feb 11 21:46:46 <edistar> there are ti calc roms, and there is emulator software around, even for linux
Feb 11 21:48:36 <mwaldron> muhahaha
Feb 11 21:50:01 <MangoFusion> just make sure
Feb 11 21:50:06 <MangoFusion> it supports portrait mode
Feb 11 21:50:09 <MangoFusion> ;)
Feb 11 21:50:23 <mwaldron> *cough* garnetvm *cough*
Feb 11 21:51:10 <pupnik> http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5838978-description.html   Some problems inherent to dynamic recompilers
Feb 11 22:00:55 <Fang64> indeed problems
Feb 11 22:01:20 <edistar> nobody has any idea how to kill the ui?
Feb 11 22:01:39 <konttori> edistar: what ui?
Feb 11 22:01:39 <Fang64> ps -A find the pid and kill it as root?
Feb 11 22:01:44 <edistar> konttori: the maemo ui
Feb 11 22:01:54 <edistar> Fang64: it restarts automatically again then
Feb 11 22:01:56 <GeneralAntilles> It never did anything to you.
Feb 11 22:01:57 <Fang64> ah
Feb 11 22:02:09 <Fang64> hehe he's angry at it
Feb 11 22:02:17 <konttori> kill the watchdog?
Feb 11 22:02:21 <edistar> Fang64: /usr/bin/maemo_af_desktop
Feb 11 22:02:24 <edistar> konttori: and that is?
Feb 11 22:02:40 <GeneralAntilles> I don't think the watchdog keeps matchbox alive.
Feb 11 22:02:43 <konttori> Go to RD mode (If I remember correctly, it'll shut down some watchdog activities)
Feb 11 22:02:47 * GeneralAntilles could very well be wrong, though.
Feb 11 22:03:02 <GeneralAntilles> It's actually an rd-flag.
Feb 11 22:03:11 <GeneralAntilles> So, enable RD mode then add the no-watchdog flags.
Feb 11 22:03:17 <edistar> konttori: how do I get into that RD mode again?
Feb 11 22:03:22 <GeneralAntilles> flasher
Feb 11 22:03:26 <konttori> use the linux flasher
Feb 11 22:03:30 <edistar> and then?
Feb 11 22:03:48 <konttori> set the rd flag with the flasher
Feb 11 22:04:08 <GeneralAntilles> flasher-3.0 --enable-rd-mode
Feb 11 22:04:27 <GeneralAntilles> flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=<flags>
Feb 11 22:04:38 <GeneralAntilles> Then -R it.
Feb 11 22:04:46 <edistar> GeneralAntilles: and this flag would be no-watchdog? ;)
Feb 11 22:05:02 <GeneralAntilles> flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags to show the flags
Feb 11 22:05:05 * Jaffa yawns
Feb 11 22:05:06 <GeneralAntilles> There are a couple.
Feb 11 22:05:19 <GeneralAntilles> Not sure which one/if any of them will actually keep matchbox from relaunching.
Feb 11 22:05:25 <edistar> GeneralAntilles: ok, thx
Feb 11 22:05:38 <GeneralAntilles> I don't think it's one of the hardware watchdogs
Feb 11 22:05:40 <GeneralAntilles> but I don't recall.
Feb 11 22:05:51 <edistar> no-lifeguard-reset?
Feb 11 22:06:05 <konttori> well, depends on what you try to do, but if you want to just kill the desktop, you should be able to do that even while matchbox is still running
Feb 11 22:06:24 <edistar> konttori: I'd ideally want to kill xserver
Feb 11 22:06:50 <konttori> perhaps your best shot is to install the kde version
Feb 11 22:07:14 <konttori> just an idea. I really don't know what you try to do. will you shed any light?
Feb 11 22:11:48 <indolent> anybody knows how to scan the wifi channel using the command line ?
Feb 11 22:12:30 <edistar> indolent: iflist scan
Feb 11 22:12:38 <edistar> indolent: iwlist
Feb 11 22:12:39 <edistar> sry
Feb 11 22:13:22 <indolent> thanks edistar but i am using n800 and the iwlist scan is not compatible from the wirelesstools
Feb 11 22:13:50 <edistar> indolent: oh, bad luck
Feb 11 22:14:05 <indolent> i tried using them non the less but the scanning fails after couple of runs
Feb 11 22:14:20 <indolent> sry  s/non/none
Feb 11 22:14:27 <edistar> btw, thx GeneralAntilles! it works now, I can kill anything I want ;)
Feb 11 22:14:37 <GeneralAntilles> Woo!
Feb 11 22:15:03 <GeneralAntilles> Will his bloodlust ever be sated?
Feb 11 22:16:12 <edistar> GeneralAntilles: different question, do you know how I get the ecore/evas/edje packages for fb?
Feb 11 22:16:57 <GeneralAntilles> fb?
Feb 11 22:17:01 <GeneralAntilles> Check gronmayer?
Feb 11 22:17:12 <edistar> ?
Feb 11 22:17:28 <GeneralAntilles> gronmayer.com/it
Feb 11 22:17:41 <edistar> ok
Feb 11 22:28:07 * Jaffa can recommend a spell at forum.eeeuser.com to really appreciate how worse ITT could be (or where it's going)
Feb 11 22:28:54 <GeneralAntilles> ^ Yeah, that last part.
Feb 11 22:29:45 <edistar> btw, is there any disadvantage of running maemo in RD mode?
Feb 11 22:29:49 <Jaffa> http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=14588#p137585 for example
Feb 11 22:30:13 <GeneralAntilles> edistar, supposedly maybe.
Feb 11 22:30:17 <Jaffa> edistar: there used to be no delay from touching the power button to it turning on; so if you had it switched off in a bag, you couldn't often come back to it booted up
Feb 11 22:30:20 <GeneralAntilles> Practically, doesn't seem like it.
Feb 11 22:30:43 <edistar> ok
Feb 11 22:32:04 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Feb 11 22:32:22 <GeneralAntilles> The price of popularity.
Feb 11 22:32:42 <konttori> Anyone want to try out usbcontrol (sans ukmp)?
Feb 11 22:32:46 <konttori> https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/3352/usbcontrol-1.0_all.deb
Feb 11 22:33:11 <Jaffa> konttori: is it a funky little statusbar applet, or a desktop applet, or a discreet little window yet? ;-)
Feb 11 22:33:19 <konttori> May need to install ukmp 1.74 over 1.73.
Feb 11 22:33:30 <konttori> Jaffa: Absolutely no change to the prior version.
Feb 11 22:33:45 <konttori> But, packaged as separate app, as requested by quite a few people
Feb 11 22:33:57 <Jaffa> Fair enough. Didn't try it TBH, only just got my female/female adapter and happy with the command line for the moment.
Feb 11 22:34:12 <konttori> Could you try it out just for me?
Feb 11 22:34:25 <konttori> Just to see if it works.
Feb 11 22:34:35 <Jaffa> Sure
Feb 11 22:34:40 <konttori> thanks!
Feb 11 22:37:47 <Jaffa> konttori: works perfectly (I've not got UKMP installed at the moment, so there's clearly no dep on that). Does it just switch mode, or does it intelligently look for file systems to unmount etc?
Feb 11 22:38:34 <Jaffa> Two more suggestions: 1) Default install location of "Settings" rather than "Extras"; 2) make it a dialogue box rather than full screen, with three buttons on top of each other, with 48x48 icons
Feb 11 22:38:54 <konttori> It's dummy as hell
Feb 11 22:39:48 <konttori> Thanks for the encouragement! Yeah. I've been thinking to do layout changes. Just need to  have something else on the screen as well.
Feb 11 22:40:05 <konttori> Maybe allow key reconfiguration or something like that.
Feb 11 22:40:15 <konttori> anyway, to bed now. Thanks!
Feb 11 22:40:49 <konttori> IF you wanna hack it a bit, just sudo and then vi /usr/bin/usbcontrol
Feb 11 22:41:28 <lcuk> conttori@810# usbcontrol disable
Feb 11 22:41:34 <lcuk> ;)
Feb 11 22:41:46 <lcuk> ^k
Feb 11 22:45:10 <MangoFusion> Jaffa: haha, i saw that screen resolution thing earlier. hilarious
Feb 11 22:47:13 * lcuk fails to see the funny cos its all logical and makes sense
Feb 11 22:47:49 <MangoFusion> aarrgh, my eyes
Feb 11 22:48:26 <lcuk> i use scaled vnc desktops quite a lot at work, even down to someone asking for a screenshot
Feb 11 22:50:41 <lardman> evening all
Feb 11 22:51:30 <MangoFusion> true but would you use it 24/7?
Feb 11 22:52:27 <Navi> I'd use it as long as I'm away from my desktop
Feb 11 22:52:38 <lcuk> i dunno, i lived for years with amiga high resolution flickery interlace on an old sd tv, is this solution really any worse?
Feb 11 22:52:39 <Navi> except instead of vnc, it'd be remote X
Feb 11 22:53:58 * Jaffa doesn't imagine using it too often, but handy to have in the toolbox.
Feb 11 22:54:04 <Jaffa> Bed time now, tho'
Feb 11 22:55:31 <Solarion> maemo/nokia person ping
Feb 11 22:55:43 <Mousey> damn maemo/nokia shoulda been at SCALE
Feb 11 22:55:48 <Mousey> everybody loved the n810
Feb 11 22:56:13 <Solarion> I love my n810.  I was doing work during colloquium.  :)
Feb 11 22:56:29 <Solarion> plus, since it runs x11, I cna redirect x11 output back to my screen.  w00t!
Feb 11 22:56:33 <Mousey> except for the grand prize of the raffle, i think mine was the ONLY one there
Feb 11 22:56:34 <darkip> i'm on mine now
Feb 11 22:56:49 <Mousey> there were 800s tho
Feb 11 22:59:03 * Solarion found an important bug which should be relayed to nokia/maemo people ASAP
Feb 11 22:59:26 <Mousey> http://bugs.maemo.org?
Feb 11 22:59:44 <Solarion> yeah, but it's currently assigned to "nobody"; how long does it take nokia/maemo to pick up important bugs?
Feb 11 22:59:50 <Mousey> the whole device is a giant security hole. I direct trains thru it
Feb 11 22:59:59 <Mousey> choo choo!
Feb 11 23:00:03 <Solarion> heh
Feb 11 23:00:19 <Mousey> Solarion: i have no idea.. in fact, i'm just a loudmouth newbie, and safe to ignore ^_^
Feb 11 23:00:53 <sfire> will the n800 and the n810 be able to run the same software forever?  example if OS2009 comes out will I still be able to upgrade
Feb 11 23:01:37 <johnx> sfire, I think Nokia has committed to at least one more major release for the n800, which would be OS2009
Feb 11 23:01:47 <sfire> is the handwriting recognization good?
Feb 11 23:02:02 <lcuk> you are guaranteed to be able to run the software you got when you purchased the device.  anything else is a bonus, but based upon past experience and a sprinkling of nokia info you should be able to follow the update trail for a while
Feb 11 23:02:05 <johnx> not really...
Feb 11 23:02:24 <sfire> just trying to decide between the n800 and the n810
Feb 11 23:02:27 <GeneralAntilles> I can't imagine them dropping the N810 after a single update.
Feb 11 23:02:30 <johnx> not really to the handwriting...
Feb 11 23:02:39 <GeneralAntilles> So I'd bet we might even see OS2010 on the N800
Feb 11 23:02:42 <lcuk> dropping the 810 == dropping the 800 as well
Feb 11 23:02:53 <GeneralAntilles> sfire, there's no real difference between the two hardware wise.
Feb 11 23:03:05 <lcuk> until then they are tied together by common hardware
Feb 11 23:03:12 <johnx> it's the same motherboard with different accessories plugged in, basically
Feb 11 23:03:23 * lardman hopes OpenGL will eventually come out of the Nokia woodwork
Feb 11 23:03:33 <sfire> so if size isn't a concern just carrying around a bluetooth keyboard makes them about equal right?
Feb 11 23:03:40 * lcuk dremels out the camera and gps and puts in radio and popout cam
Feb 11 23:03:57 <lcuk> +gps yes
Feb 11 23:03:58 <dtahtbot`> lcuk: Error: "gps" is not a valid command.
Feb 11 23:04:17 <lardman> another bot
Feb 11 23:04:20 <lardman> +hello bot
Feb 11 23:04:20 <dtahtbot`> lardman: Error: "hello" is not a valid command.
Feb 11 23:04:30 <johnx> +shutup bot :)
Feb 11 23:04:31 <dtahtbot`> johnx: Error: "shutup" is not a valid command.
Feb 11 23:04:34 <lardman> :)
Feb 11 23:04:35 <MangoFusion> what's a good bt keyboard for the n800 anyway? i have been looking around but i can't quite find one that stands out
Feb 11 23:04:59 <lcuk> +sql"is_not_a_command
Feb 11 23:05:00 <dtahtbot`> lcuk: Error: "sql"is_not_a_command" is not a valid command.
Feb 11 23:05:01 <sfire> I saw one in a video that folds.. don't know who makes it though
Feb 11 23:05:20 <johnx> igo makes one that a lot of people seem to have
Feb 11 23:05:28 * johnx doesn't have a bt keyboard
Feb 11 23:05:29 <lcuk> plenty make folding kb now, and rolling and virtual and fullsize
Feb 11 23:05:47 <MangoFusion> the only bt keyboard i have is a big clunky apple one - not very portable ;)
Feb 11 23:05:58 <lcuk> is it the old style one?
Feb 11 23:06:01 <MangoFusion> yes
Feb 11 23:06:10 <lcuk> are you happy with its performance?
Feb 11 23:06:15 <lcuk> (im looking at one)
Feb 11 23:06:31 <MangoFusion> i was contemplating the new one, but that is still not portable enough from what i have seen
Feb 11 23:06:34 <lcuk> do batteries last? is it comfy....
Feb 11 23:06:37 <sfire> http://www.compuplus.com/i-Think-Outside-XTBTUE-iGo-Stowaway-Bluetooth-Keyboard-1011314~.html?sid=3uyc75zp0vo3y6v
Feb 11 23:06:38 <MangoFusion> mine has worked fine so far
Feb 11 23:06:45 <sfire> that one ^^ ?
Feb 11 23:06:49 <MangoFusion> not replaced the battery's since i got it
Feb 11 23:07:01 <MangoFusion> though i didn't use it for a while so maybe that factors into it
Feb 11 23:07:46 <lcuk> cool, i think im gonna get one of them then, dont like the new apple one
Feb 11 23:08:06 <lcuk> http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=bluetooth+folding+keyboard&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi&gbv=1&ei=FdWwR7TcMJWmwwHonLB7
Feb 11 23:08:15 <lcuk> theres lots of folding keyboards btw
Feb 11 23:09:34 <lcuk> nokia n96 has a kickstand :D
Feb 11 23:11:29 <blahdeblah> I have a Think Outside Bluetooth Foldable Keyboard - it performs extremely well once you get used to the layout, but is a bit on the fragile side.  Operation with my N800 is flawless.
Feb 11 23:11:31 <MangoFusion> i just got an n95. now i'm going to be depressed
Feb 11 23:11:36 <MangoFusion> ;)
Feb 11 23:12:54 <lardman> MangoFusion: Or you could be inspired to get the same stuff working on the N8x0... ;)
Feb 11 23:13:42 <lcuk> lardman, have seen my first fb pixels written :)
Feb 11 23:14:11 <lardman> good stuff, I've seen my first colour blocks from the dsp :)
Feb 11 23:14:35 <lcuk> thanks for the base, its got the x layer running, ive added the mplayer fb layer and found he stops a certain way along because hes aiming for a fullcolor screen, im heading into the deeper waters of the framebuffer...
Feb 11 23:14:42 <lcuk> excellent
Feb 11 23:14:51 <solmumaha> lardman: fyi, LD_LIBRARY_PATH works, but not from memory card
Feb 11 23:14:58 <lardman> am tidying up the code to send to the list
Feb 11 23:15:14 <lardman> solmumaha: ah ok, bit of a pita those mount options
Feb 11 23:15:16 <lcuk> good man
Feb 11 23:15:37 <lcuk> these smallish programs could be compiled and deployed so much easier with direct onboard maketools/gcc etc
Feb 11 23:15:53 <lardman> it's very very very slow
Feb 11 23:15:59 <solmumaha> and you can't install stuff on memory card either, dies on chown :(
Feb 11 23:16:01 <lardman> ok for very small stuff I suppose
Feb 11 23:16:12 <lcuk> even for these small base tests?
Feb 11 23:16:14 <lardman> solmumaha: vfat
Feb 11 23:16:19 <solmumaha> i know
Feb 11 23:16:33 <solmumaha> would have been nice though
Feb 11 23:16:35 <lardman> lcuk: On the Zaurus, running any build tools on device was painfully slow
Feb 11 23:16:42 <lardman> solmumaha: yep
Feb 11 23:17:18 <lardman> lcuk: though we have more RAM, and that was the limiting factor on the Zaurus in the end
Feb 11 23:17:39 <lcuk> ill see about a custom no build opts, just all in a direct shell script running gcc as i go
Feb 11 23:17:41 <johnx> also, I think the IO speeds on the NIT are generally better
Feb 11 23:17:52 <johnx> heh...speaking of slow, my webkit gtk+ build in qemu-system-arm on my desktop is still going from last night O_o
Feb 11 23:17:57 <lcuk> it might work for specifics
Feb 11 23:18:11 <lcuk> im just annoyed developing inside the vmware bubble
Feb 11 23:18:23 <lardman> johnx: oh dear, what spec is the build machine?
Feb 11 23:18:41 <johnx> athlon 64 3000+
Feb 11 23:19:04 <johnx> it's faster than just about any retail available ARM machine I'm pretty sure...
Feb 11 23:19:12 <lcuk> in a vmware box?
Feb 11 23:19:21 <lardman> johnx: my first OE build machine was a p3-400 w/ 64Mb RAM. That was painful, especially in the old bad bitbake-needs-lots-of-memory days
Feb 11 23:19:25 <lardman> johnx: :)
Feb 11 23:19:48 * johnx waits for scratchbox2 ...
Feb 11 23:20:01 * lardman uses OE + bitbake to build things
Feb 11 23:20:12 <sfire> can anyone tell me what specs the battery is in the n800..  newegg lists that it uses a common BP-5L battery and I'm looking to see if there is anything that might provide a longer runtime
Feb 11 23:20:53 <lardman> AC? ;)
Feb 11 23:21:22 <lcuk> car battery?
Feb 11 23:21:26 <sfire> lol
Feb 11 23:21:39 <lardman> lcuk: Too heavy
Feb 11 23:21:42 <sfire> was looking for more unwired time
Feb 11 23:21:52 <johnx> interesting...mine doesn't seem to list mA on it...
Feb 11 23:21:53 <lcuk> you could try a solar array shaped as wings
Feb 11 23:22:15 <lcuk> they supply the power and help you get around faster
Feb 11 23:22:34 <MangoFusion> i've got a great idea
Feb 11 23:22:40 <MangoFusion> get a crank
Feb 11 23:22:49 <lcuk> one of these kneee power devices
Feb 11 23:22:50 <MangoFusion> attached to a wind-up generator
Feb 11 23:22:53 <sfire> a internet search shows that they range from 800mAh to about 1500 mAh
Feb 11 23:22:57 <darkip> scratchbox 2????
Feb 11 23:23:08 <MangoFusion> whenever you want to use your tablet again, crank like mad for a day
Feb 11 23:23:17 <MangoFusion> or two
Feb 11 23:23:23 <lardman> sfire: The batteries?
Feb 11 23:23:32 <lcuk> get an arm crank and when you want to use it, you just flap your wings like a chicken
Feb 11 23:23:34 <sfire> yep
Feb 11 23:23:45 * lardman switches N800 off to pull out battery
Feb 11 23:23:50 <johnx> darkip, the new scratchbox :)
Feb 11 23:24:01 * lardman forgot how hard that is to do
Feb 11 23:24:11 <darkip> what's new in it?
Feb 11 23:24:50 <lcuk> does it run in wndows? (cower!)
Feb 11 23:24:56 <johnx> it works rather differently, but I couldn't begin to describe it: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/sbox2
Feb 11 23:24:59 <lardman> sfire: Mine says BP-5L 1500mAh
Feb 11 23:25:13 <sfire> lardman: thanks.. exactly what I was looking for :)
Feb 11 23:25:17 <johnx> lcuk, maybe in cygwin with some hacking?
Feb 11 23:25:18 <lardman> np
Feb 11 23:25:45 <lcuk> hmmmm john..
Feb 11 23:25:49 <johnx> lcuk, maybe once windows improves its POSIX compliance :P
Feb 11 23:26:01 <lcuk> on linux lowers its :P
Feb 11 23:26:21 <lcuk> or^
Feb 11 23:26:36 <johnx> heh. well, you'll have to get *BSD and Mac OS on that "less compliance" bandwagon too...
Feb 11 23:27:40 <lcuk> damn your logic \o|    ;)
Feb 11 23:29:56 <sfire> if you plug in the n800 can you change the battery while it is powered up?
Feb 11 23:30:04 <GeneralAntilles> No.
Feb 11 23:30:08 <sfire> darn
Feb 11 23:30:14 * GeneralAntilles wish that had a big cap for changing the battery like the old iBooks.
Feb 11 23:31:03 <lardman> My n800 is far less efficient than my n810
Feb 11 23:31:09 <lardman> in terms of battery life
Feb 11 23:31:16 <lardman> I wonder why
Feb 11 23:31:27 <johnx> two sd cards mounted?
Feb 11 23:31:34 <lardman> ah-ha
Feb 11 23:31:39 <lardman> yes, that may well be it
Feb 11 23:32:05 <sfire> does it offer a "hibernate" or does it totally have to reboot?
Feb 11 23:32:28 <lardman> sfire: reboot
Feb 11 23:32:50 <johnx> sfire, no hibernate. there is a "semi-hidden" suspend to RAM option but that would get wiped with no battery power
Feb 11 23:34:01 <sfire> what kind of battery life do you guys tend to get? does it run a full day on a charge?
Feb 11 23:34:21 <johnx> it depends on what you do with it
Feb 11 23:34:58 <sfire> lets say I just have instant messenger running
Feb 11 23:35:28 <GeneralAntilles> sfire, the ARM stuff idles at practically no power usage.
Feb 11 23:35:39 <johnx> idle w/ wifi connection: maybe 2 days, idle w/o wifi: several days
Feb 11 23:35:49 <MangoFusion> a darn sight better than my axim x50v with WM5
Feb 11 23:35:56 <GeneralAntilles> Without wifi, completely idle, like, 10-12 days.
Feb 11 23:36:01 <MangoFusion> the memories.... uuugh
Feb 11 23:36:01 <GeneralAntilles> On wifi around 2 or 3 days.
Feb 11 23:36:20 <sfire> thats better than I expected
Feb 11 23:36:24 <johnx> if you run the backlight constantly and an actively used wifi connection you might drain it in 4 hours...
Feb 11 23:37:00 <MangoFusion> mine currently claims "4 days idle, 3 hours when in use". wifi off
Feb 11 23:37:10 <GeneralAntilles> 7-8 in-use with low backlight and minimal network usage.
Feb 11 23:38:21 <sfire> is the bluetooth more power efficient than the 802.11b/g ?
Feb 11 23:38:45 <lardman> no one had done proper tests afaik
Feb 11 23:38:53 <lardman> has
Feb 11 23:39:00 <lardman> slightly changes the meaning :)
Feb 11 23:40:17 <sfire> does using the bluetooth to access the net from a cell phone quickly drain the cell phone battery?
Feb 11 23:40:26 <sfire> (sorry for the 101 questions)
Feb 11 23:41:16 <GeneralAntilles> Wifi > Bluetooth
Feb 11 23:41:19 <GeneralAntilles> From my experience, anyway.
Feb 11 23:41:25 <GeneralAntilles> cellphone dies fast.
Feb 11 23:41:29 <GeneralAntilles> 3-hours on mine.
Feb 11 23:41:50 <lardman> difficult to separate the Bluetooth from the GPRS/etc. though
Feb 11 23:42:11 <lardman> ah, sorry should have read higher up
Feb 11 23:47:07 <lardman> carry on¬
Feb 11 23:47:13 <lardman> ;)
Feb 11 23:47:47 <solmumaha> http://pupnik.de/WarZone2100_N810_M.jpg
Feb 11 23:48:10 <glass> nice
Feb 11 23:48:22 <glass> and that works 12 or so fps?
Feb 11 23:48:42 <solmumaha> hard to tell
Feb 11 23:48:58 <solmumaha> playable
Feb 11 23:49:05 <solmumaha> on start at least :)
Feb 11 23:49:08 <glass> hehe
Feb 11 23:49:12 <glass> i'm impressed anyways
Feb 11 23:49:20 <sfire> anyone in here use Kontact in KDE as their organizer? is it possible to sync with it?
Feb 11 23:49:22 <lardman> ~lart Gnome for not allowing me to open a terminal in a given directory
Feb 11 23:49:22 * infobot takes Gnome to the vet for a "special" visit for not allowing me to open a terminal in a given directory
Feb 11 23:49:31 <solmumaha> there's a deb if you want to test
Feb 11 23:50:03 <solmumaha> no sound atm though :(
Feb 11 23:50:14 <johnx> lardman, there's an addon for nautilus to do that...
Feb 11 23:50:30 <lardman> johnx: ah, ok, I'll do some Googling; thanks
Feb 11 23:50:48 <johnx> try something like "open terminal here"
Feb 11 23:52:42 <lardman> while I'm at it. search is rubbish too
Feb 11 23:53:25 <lardman> johnx: sudo apt-get install nautilus-open-terminal
Feb 11 23:53:35 <johnx> yup, sounds right :)
Feb 11 23:53:43 <johnx> about both search and terminal...
Feb 11 23:53:52 <johnx> search got a lot worse since the last gnome release
Feb 11 23:53:54 * johnx grumbles
Feb 11 23:54:04 * lardman used to use KDE
Feb 11 23:54:20 <johnx> well...I really dislike KDE but I won't get into that
Feb 11 23:55:21 <lardman> I'm also not fond of the lack of tabs in Nautilus
Feb 12 00:02:23 <lardman> here's a strange one: Makefile has the command: $(CC) test_framebuffer.o -lX11 -o test_framebuffer (which works if entered manually), but the output shows that what is actually executed is: gcc   test_framebuffer.o   -o test_framebuffer
Feb 12 00:02:30 <lardman> any ideas what's wrong?
Feb 12 00:02:54 <johnx> a newline in the wrong place?
Feb 12 00:03:06 <johnx> (in the makefile)
Feb 12 00:03:29 <lardman> doesn't look like it, and I can't see how the -lX11 would be ignored (that's all on one line)
Feb 12 00:04:19 <lardman> hmm
Feb 12 00:05:07 <lardman> My mistake, misnamed the target. Nearly bed time :)
Feb 12 00:05:12 <lcuk> lard, this is what i have ended up using with the base code
Feb 12 00:05:12 <lcuk> http://pastebin.ca/900552
Feb 12 00:05:30 <Null-P> can anyone tell me what the ascii values (default) are for the dpad directions (up/down/left/right)?
Feb 12 00:05:48 <lardman> lcuk: I'm famous ;)
Feb 12 00:05:59 <Null-P> or keycodss
Feb 12 00:06:14 <lardman> Null-P: Was in the maemo tutorial iirc
Feb 12 00:06:23 <Mousey> anyone know how to boot the n810 in text mode? i wanna see the dmesg scrolling as it boots if it's possible (like on the openmoko phones)
Feb 12 00:06:25 <lardman> lcuk: thanks
Feb 12 00:06:30 <Null-P> mmm, looking
Feb 12 00:07:21 <johnx> Mousey, you'll need a custom kernel
Feb 12 00:07:25 <Mousey> wow, really
Feb 12 00:07:41 <Mousey> dammit.. the more i hang out in here, the more i'm convinced i'm an idiot for not installing scratchbox
Feb 12 00:07:57 <lardman> Try OE + bitbake.... :)
Feb 12 00:08:01 <johnx> need to turn on console framebuffer and something about LCD manual update
Feb 12 00:08:24 <lcuk> lardman, explain a bitmore about oe+bitbake, why would i want outlook express?
Feb 12 00:09:03 <johnx> lardman, I can't get to my OE build box right now. Does OE have the OS2008 kernel?
Feb 12 00:09:32 <lardman> johnx: not sure, but I imagine so; they have added everything else
Feb 12 00:09:51 <lardman> johnx: take a look at the browser on oe.org
Feb 12 00:09:59 <johnx> ah, thanks
Feb 12 00:10:08 <lardman> lcuk: openembedded.org
Feb 12 00:10:26 <Mousey> BUY THIS DOMAIN
Feb 12 00:10:26 <Mousey>   The domain oe.org may be for sale by its owner!
Feb 12 00:10:31 <Mousey> ^_^
Feb 12 00:10:34 <lcuk> i got there eventually.. ive heard you mention it a few times and grew curious
Feb 12 00:10:42 <lardman> lcuk: it's a cross builder; works very nicely. I can do "bitbake octave" and it will build & package everything needed to build octave
Feb 12 00:10:50 <Mousey> oh.... naggers
Feb 12 00:10:55 * Mousey goes back to lurk
Feb 12 00:11:01 <lcuk> does it work with std make files thou
Feb 12 00:11:01 <lardman> no arsing around building all the deps oneself
Feb 12 00:11:26 <johnx> well, as long as they're in OE...
Feb 12 00:11:44 <lcuk> as in, can i import a code tree and it gets all its info from the folder
Feb 12 00:11:46 <lardman> lcuk: generally yes; you need to provide a .bb for the package in question (which is a build recipe). There are *lots* of things already provided tho
Feb 12 00:11:46 <hrw|gone> Mousey: flash this kernel: http://pokylinux.org/autobuild/poky/3730/zImage-2.6.21-osso71-nokia800-20080211001500.bin and you will get console scrolling on boot
Feb 12 00:11:59 <Mousey> hrw|gone: wow, thanks
Feb 12 00:12:15 <hrw|gone> Mousey: no warranty of course
Feb 12 00:12:16 <lardman> lcuk: you tell it where the code is, and it will build it using standard autotools
Feb 12 00:12:23 <lardman> hrw|gone: ;)
Feb 12 00:12:24 <hrw|gone> Mousey: and report back does it works for you
Feb 12 00:12:36 <hrw|gone> Mousey: kernel is for n8x0 (n800 and n810)
Feb 12 00:12:39 <hrw|gone> bye
Feb 12 00:12:45 <lcuk> but in the case of these little tests it couldnt decipher that you needed x11 could it?
Feb 12 00:12:46 <Mousey> kthxbye!
Feb 12 00:13:02 <lcuk> or is that one of its magic tricks?
Feb 12 00:13:11 <lardman> lcuk: you tell it what the deps are in the .bb recipe
Feb 12 00:13:22 <lardman> http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages packages list
Feb 12 00:13:49 <lardman> http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/octave/octave_3.0.0.bb this is a build recipe for octave
Feb 12 00:14:11 <lardman> this is the .inc file http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/octave/octave.inc
Feb 12 00:14:54 <lardman> All slightly cryptic, but not that bad once you get started, and the bonus is that there's lots of stuff there already
Feb 12 00:16:05 <lcuk> seems like it comes into its own for multiple target building
Feb 12 00:16:34 <lardman> certainly the metadata support building for multiple targets
Feb 12 00:16:38 <johnx> it works really well for building a whole distribution from source and then creating a package feed (aka repository) to go with it...
Feb 12 00:16:44 <lardman> which is good as lots of people use it and fix it and add to it
Feb 12 00:17:27 <lcuk> yes i can see :)  thanks for info.   (backs away carefully because thats another layer of info for my brain to explode with)
Feb 12 00:17:41 * lcuk is just settling into makefiles
Feb 12 00:18:15 * johnx still finds building in qemu to be easiest (also: slowest)
Feb 12 00:20:24 <pupnik> glass: as far as i can tell it's above 12 fps - in the 12-15 range
Feb 12 00:20:34 <glass> nice, nice
Feb 12 00:21:28 <pupnik> sol' did a great package of warzone2100 here - puts the 30 MB game data onto /media/mmc2 instead of rootfs
Feb 12 00:26:56 * lcuk takes over the framebuffer without x
Feb 12 00:27:19 <GeneralAntilles> Yar!
Feb 12 00:27:38 <lcuk> its all fun and games until you realise the x window on top was providing refresh cover ;)
Feb 12 00:28:01 <pupnik> lcuk: can you whip up a little demo with src?
Feb 12 00:28:05 <lcuk> close xwindow after playing and whole display comes back.... writing directly is like grafitying on the screen ;)
Feb 12 00:30:13 <lcuk> pupnik, its a bit of a boiled down hackjob to get first light on base device.  slow and dirty tho provides a baseline at least.  http://pastebin.ca/900579
Feb 12 00:30:34 <pupnik> thanks
Feb 12 00:31:00 <pupnik> you are testing on 770?
Feb 12 00:31:20 <lcuk> its a mix of mplayer code, lardman and my first dive into c in many years
Feb 12 00:31:28 <lcuk> no, ive got an 810 i was looking at the options
Feb 12 00:32:33 <pupnik> excellent thanks
Feb 12 00:33:13 <pupnik> this is using the 16-bit rgb565 right now?
Feb 12 00:33:19 <lcuk> np, now how about a codeswap :P i like the look of your pupvox
Feb 12 00:33:30 <lcuk> im not sure i had to sleep last night, i cant remember what i left in
Feb 12 00:34:43 <lcuk> infact, its not in anything but the desktop in the state its in
Feb 12 00:36:24 <lcuk> i am gonna start looking at what the framebuffer does tomorrow.  first straight foreward test should be the rotation code.
Feb 12 00:36:51 <pupnik> ok there are a number of fun sdl demos that can benefit from this kind of thing once we understand it better
Feb 12 00:37:23 <lcuk> then i will look at the OMAPFB_SETUP_PLANE functions and beyond to follow what happens when changing modes
Feb 12 00:37:37 <pupnik> the big issues are getting fast blits from 8bpp and 16bpp sdl surfaces, but also a custom 32bpp->yuv would be tremendous, saving a lot of sdl overhead
Feb 12 00:37:43 <pupnik> ok write comments!
Feb 12 00:38:35 <pupnik> did you get my pm lcuk ?
Feb 12 00:38:51 <lcuk> there is meant to be a single bitplane mode OMAPFB_COLOR_CLUT_1BPP which if i can get it will be an 8x speedup for writing book pages...    im not going after this from a gaming perspective yet, ulteririor motives ;) and i know others are looking at the planar conversion (lardman..)
Feb 12 00:39:23 <lcuk> yes, just now, they dont flash for some reason
Feb 12 00:39:30 <lardman> yep, I see that
Feb 12 00:40:07 <lardman> you might need the pdf for the lcd controller to work out the bit pattern though
Feb 12 00:40:21 <lardman> unless it truly is that simple
Feb 12 00:40:38 <lcuk> ill get that when i need it, but theres only so many ways
Feb 12 00:41:15 <lardman> lcuk: I have a copy somewhere, give me a shout tomorrow when I'm at work
Feb 12 00:41:47 <lcuk> ill be at work and its rare i get online (even less cos tomorrow is picnic day with family :D) i love school holidays
Feb 12 00:43:39 <lcuk> pupnik, lardman thanks :) i will go and digest some more and see where i get upto.  have a good night
Feb 12 00:44:02 <lardman> lcuk: cheers, you too
Feb 12 00:44:06 <pupnik> cheers
Feb 12 00:45:14 * lardman thought he had the code for the 770 and n8x0 cracked, but the n8x0 are playing up
Feb 12 00:45:39 <lardman> annoyingly I think I've solved this before, just can't remember how; need to browse ml
Feb 12 00:46:10 <pupnik> hmm
Feb 12 00:48:01 <lardman> night all
Feb 12 01:49:20 <blahdeblah1> Hi.  Are there any media players other than kagu which support scrobbling and Ogg?
Feb 12 01:54:55 <Navi> scrobbling?
Feb 12 01:55:24 <GeneralAntilles> last.fm
Feb 12 01:55:43 <blahdeblah1> Navi: the maemo package is called maemoscrobbler
Feb 12 02:21:56 <lodc> can anyone point me towards the best kismet binaries to use on n800/os2008?  maybe i am dumb but cant seem to get the answer from google
Feb 12 02:24:52 <Mousey> ttfn, internets!
Feb 12 02:48:33 * SDuensin is a new N800 owner.  Yea!
Feb 12 02:48:57 <Tak> congratulations
Feb 12 02:49:07 <johnx> welcome to the club :)
Feb 12 02:49:20 <SDuensin> Thanks.  :-)
Feb 12 02:49:31 <SDuensin> No idea what I'm doing yet.
Feb 12 02:50:09 <Tak> ditto
Feb 12 02:50:50 <SDuensin> Only problem I've had so far is getting it to connect to my Mac's shared internet.  :-(
Feb 12 02:51:03 <GeneralAntilles> Apple's DHCP server is broken.
Feb 12 02:51:11 <GeneralAntilles> Just buy yourself a real router.
Feb 12 02:51:28 <milhouse> you must be talking about bug 2478...
Feb 12 02:51:34 <SDuensin> I use a router at home, but when I'm at work, I want to sponge internet off my cellular card in my laptop.
Feb 12 02:51:44 <SDuensin> I must have voted for 2478.  :-)
Feb 12 02:52:21 <milhouse> you and ryan! :)
Feb 12 02:52:30 <SDuensin> hehe
Feb 12 02:52:49 <GeneralAntilles> I hear setting a static IP is sometimes successful.
Feb 12 02:52:53 <GeneralAntilles> There's details on google somewhere.
Feb 12 02:53:17 <milhouse> static ip must be the easiest work around...
Feb 12 02:53:19 <SDuensin> Sometimes, yes.  Apparently not today.
Feb 12 02:53:50 <milhouse> for once there's not much nokia can do about this as they don't have access to the source code... hmm welcome to our world.
Feb 12 02:53:55 <GeneralAntilles> You could try usbnet as a stop gap.
Feb 12 02:54:09 <milhouse> or run a third party dhcp server?
Feb 12 02:54:23 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, that seems like it might be an option.
Feb 12 02:54:33 <GeneralAntilles> Though I've never seen details on setting that up anywhere.
Feb 12 02:54:33 <SDuensin> I'll figure something out.  I don't need DHCP.
Feb 12 02:54:59 <SDuensin> Something else I've noticed is seriously lacking on the N800...
Feb 12 02:55:04 <SDuensin> ...no Apple II emulator!   :-)
Feb 12 02:55:17 <GeneralAntilles> There's a C64 emulator.
Feb 12 02:55:42 <SDuensin> Bah!  Apple II Forever!
Feb 12 02:55:44 <SDuensin> :-)
Feb 12 02:56:21 <SDuensin> I managed to get the Maemo SDK installed.  Staring at LinApple at the moment.  It's tempting me.  <G>
Feb 12 02:57:20 <milhouse> Both 6502 based (C64 actually 6510 so really a more advanced 6502 but close enough) so the CPU emulation should be pretty well sorted... are the Apple ][ ROMs available?
Feb 12 02:57:36 <SDuensin> Easily available.
Feb 12 02:57:45 <SDuensin> Legally, dunno.  But I have real ROMs.
Feb 12 02:57:46 <milhouse> I promise I won't use ][ again...
Feb 12 02:57:49 <SDuensin> Hehe
Feb 12 02:57:50 <unique311> Tak, any betas for me to takes a look at?
Feb 12 02:58:07 <milhouse> Yeah, "legally" is really what I'm getting at :)
Feb 12 02:58:12 <SDuensin> Apple ][, Apple IIe, Apple //c.  Pick a pair.  :-)
Feb 12 02:58:42 <SDuensin> So don't spread the ROM with the emu.  That's legal.
Feb 12 02:58:49 <milhouse> The Newton emulation is hamstrung by "copyright" issues, even now... sighs.
Feb 12 02:59:01 <milhouse> Limits your market though
Feb 12 02:59:24 <milhouse> I suppose they're available as torrents, but kind of puts a dampner on the whole project
Feb 12 02:59:27 <johnx> yeah...I really wanted to try the newton emulation just to see what I was missing but I gave up after a couple hours of searching for a working ROM...
Feb 12 02:59:50 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 12 03:00:07 2008