**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 19 02:59:56 2008
Feb 19 03:01:06 <pupnik> FCEU SUCKS
Feb 19 03:07:31 <kaje> I just got a new nokia 810. How do I ssh out? It can't find the ssh command and I don't see how to install it
Feb 19 03:07:50 <elb> kaje: you have to enable maemo extras in your application manager to be able to install openssh
Feb 19 03:08:29 <elb> kaje: pull down the menu, go to tool | application catalog, then hit 'edit' for maemo Extras, and uncheck disable
Feb 19 03:08:34 <kaje> ahhh! thanks!
Feb 19 03:09:08 <kaje> also, when I do updates, it says there is a map update, but the download fails everytime... is this a known issue?
Feb 19 03:09:16 <elb> it's known by me, at least ;-)
Feb 19 03:09:23 <pupnik> elb are you sure it's in extras?
Feb 19 03:09:26 <kaje> haha, have a fix?
Feb 19 03:09:27 <elb> if you look, it's the same version you have installed, if you're urnning 50-2
Feb 19 03:09:52 <kaje> oh, I'm not running 50-2... my next question is should I upgrade even though it is going to wipe everything out?
Feb 19 03:09:59 <elb> pupnik: pretty sure
Feb 19 03:10:06 <pupnik> kaje open application manager, install new package and openssh-client should be in the 'communication' section
Feb 19 03:10:08 <elb> kaje: upgrade before you have anything to wipe out ;-)
Feb 19 03:10:24 <elb> pupnik: it wasn't for me, at first
Feb 19 03:10:25 <kaje> ok, will do
Feb 19 03:10:33 <elb> maybe you have to be in red pill mode
Feb 19 03:10:44 <elb> I thought it was maemo extras that showed it up, but apt-cache policy says it's probably not
Feb 19 03:11:12 <pupnik> strange, policy shows it being in main repository, but gronmayer says your right.
Feb 19 03:11:35 <pupnik> kaje if you need to find packages, this is the lace to search http://gronmayer.com/it/index.php
Feb 19 03:11:36 <kaje> yep, just found it after adding that repository
Feb 19 03:11:37 <elb> MYSTERIOUS
Feb 19 03:11:48 <pupnik> be sure to click on OS2008 to search for N810 packages
Feb 19 03:11:55 <kaje> what package manager does maemo use at the command line?
Feb 19 03:12:03 <pupnik> dpkg/apt
Feb 19 03:12:24 <elb> kaje: if you back up to the internal memory card (not the disk named after the device), when you upgrade it will automatically restore a lot of things
Feb 19 03:12:29 <kaje> hmm, is apt not in the path for the normal user? I tried a simple "apt" and it said it didn't exist
Feb 19 03:12:43 <elb> there is no 'apt' command; you'll mostly use apt-cache and apt-get
Feb 19 03:12:53 <kaje> ahh, ok
Feb 19 03:13:04 <elb> apt-cache is used to query the package database, and apt-get is used to install and remove packages
Feb 19 03:13:16 <kaje> yeah, I did a backup to mmc2, but I was going to scp it off to a server since I figured the upgrade will wipe it...
Feb 19 03:13:29 <elb> dpkg handles some more low-level things, but you'll also use it to list installed packages
Feb 19 03:13:36 <kaje> this thing rocks so far... although it seems like maybe the cpu is a little under powered
Feb 19 03:13:48 <elb> there's also an rsync package
Feb 19 03:14:01 <elb> which you may find useful for backups
Feb 19 03:15:17 <elb> what there is NOT is a good editor package :-P
Feb 19 03:15:28 <kaje> no emacs?
Feb 19 03:15:47 <kaje> although I guess emacs would be difficult with all the control sequences
Feb 19 03:16:05 <elb> no emacs
Feb 19 03:16:12 <elb> I put jed on mine, and it runs OK
Feb 19 03:16:19 <elb> but yeah ... Ctrl is an issue ;-)
Feb 19 03:17:29 <kaje> Also, when I try to install Skype, it complains that libhildonfm2 and libhildonmime0 are missing but required
Feb 19 03:18:21 <kaje> does rdesktop work with gnome's remote desktop vnc?
Feb 19 03:19:18 <elb> there is a maemo vnc client
Feb 19 03:19:24 <elb> I don't know about the rdesktop
Feb 19 03:19:37 <kaje> cool, any thoughts on the skype?
Feb 19 03:19:53 <GeneralAntilles> emacs would take up more room than any single other application that comes bundled with the thing. . . .
Feb 19 03:19:58 <elb> no idea, it worked for me
Feb 19 03:20:04 <elb> GeneralAntilles: except maps ;-)
Feb 19 03:20:09 <kaje> maybe the update will fix it
Feb 19 03:20:15 <GeneralAntilles> Well, if you throw in the data.
Feb 19 03:20:21 <GeneralAntilles> But just considering the application itself. . . .
Feb 19 03:21:32 <elb> it's also a zillion times more useful than any of the apps that come with it ;-)
Feb 19 03:22:01 <elb> but that's precisely why I installed jed, instead
Feb 19 03:22:26 <GeneralAntilles> Meh, install it if you want it.
Feb 19 03:22:35 <GeneralAntilles> My argument was simply that bundling it would be retarded. :P
Feb 19 03:22:44 <elb> bundling it, sure
Feb 19 03:22:51 <elb> but it's not even available third-party
Feb 19 03:23:02 <GeneralAntilles> Is too.
Feb 19 03:23:09 <elb> where?
Feb 19 03:23:11 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16189
Feb 19 03:23:31 <elb> hah
Feb 19 03:23:45 <elb> last time I looked, that guy had said he was working on it, but it wasn't available
Feb 19 03:24:09 <elb> there was also a guy who had a screenshot of the Gtk+ port running in hildon and everything ... but he "didn't remember" what he had to do to make it work :-P
Feb 19 03:25:18 <kaje> what is the password for user? it won't let me sudo
Feb 19 03:25:25 <kaje> trying to apt-get something
Feb 19 03:25:30 <GeneralAntilles> Install gainroot.
Feb 19 03:25:35 <GeneralAntilles> There is no password for user.
Feb 19 03:25:43 <GeneralAntilles> and user isn't in sudoers.
Feb 19 03:25:47 <johnx> kaje, you need to ssh in as root or get "becomeroot"
Feb 19 03:26:01 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
Feb 19 03:26:03 <GeneralAntilles> gainroot . . .
Feb 19 03:26:17 <elb> too bad itt is a shitty web forum :-P
Feb 19 03:26:25 <elb> I really wish people didn't pop those things up like they were reasonable
Feb 19 03:26:37 <GeneralAntilles> Information is information.
Feb 19 03:26:48 <johnx> elb, what would you prefer?
Feb 19 03:26:48 <kaje> so, I need to install the openssh server then? is there any way that I can set a password for root?
Feb 19 03:26:49 <elb> but it doesn't have to be painful to access
Feb 19 03:26:57 <GeneralAntilles> Is it?
Feb 19 03:26:58 <elb> johnx: usenet was *far* superior, for starters
Feb 19 03:27:02 <GeneralAntilles> Works fine on every device here.
Feb 19 03:27:12 <elb> if by "works fine" you mean "slow and painful", sure
Feb 19 03:27:24 <GeneralAntilles> kaje, it'll make you set one as part of the install
Feb 19 03:27:28 <GeneralAntilles> install the meta package
Feb 19 03:27:28 <elb> there's no good way to just slurp all posts since your last read, for example
Feb 19 03:27:41 <GeneralAntilles> elb, there's a link right on the front page.
Feb 19 03:27:53 <kaje> I don't see gainroot in the graphical package manager...
Feb 19 03:27:56 <elb> ... to posts which you can click one at a time
Feb 19 03:28:01 <GeneralAntilles> kaje, becomeroot
Feb 19 03:28:06 <GeneralAntilles> and it's in the eko1 repository
Feb 19 03:28:10 <GeneralAntilles> You'll probably have to add it.
Feb 19 03:28:14 <GeneralAntilles> see gronmayer.com/it
Feb 19 03:28:37 <johnx> elb, I will grant you that
Feb 19 03:28:37 <lcuk_3> but dont add all repos, it just confuses the matter ;)
Feb 19 03:28:52 <elb> web forums also generally have *really* shitty threading support
Feb 19 03:28:52 <johnx> web forums are a concession to those who are intimidated by usenet I guess...
Feb 19 03:28:54 <elb> (as itt does)
Feb 19 03:29:13 <johnx> yeah, the lack of good threading causes pain
Feb 19 03:29:22 <elb> the browser is simply a very poor interface for message-reading, in any form that I've ever seen it
Feb 19 03:29:29 <lcuk_3> if i need information now i just scrollback in here.  chances are great someone has searched and posted
Feb 19 03:30:18 <lcuk_3> speaking of the browser, is there a way to alter its default link clicking so a single click opens in new page
Feb 19 03:30:27 <lcuk_3> new window ^
Feb 19 03:30:42 <elb> if there is, please let me know
Feb 19 03:30:45 <elb> ;-)
Feb 19 03:30:53 <elb> or if there's some other reasonable way to open a link in a new page
Feb 19 03:30:59 <penguinba> lcuk, hold on link until menu comes up
Feb 19 03:31:04 <elb> as well as opening links in the background
Feb 19 03:31:09 <lcuk_3> tap.hold hold hold DAMN moved. try again tap. hold hold hold ahhh select
Feb 19 03:31:17 <penguinba> hehe
Feb 19 03:31:25 <lcuk_3> its a bit of a struggle
Feb 19 03:31:28 <penguinba> I use konqueror
Feb 19 03:31:39 <GeneralAntilles> They screwed up the tap'n'hold menu with OS2008 somehow.
Feb 19 03:31:42 <penguinba> i can right click, open new tab
Feb 19 03:31:55 <lcuk_3> with a stylus?
Feb 19 03:32:19 <lcuk_3> my old tablet had 2 buttons on the stylus, but it also had a battery
Feb 19 03:32:42 <penguinba> i have hardware key mapped to toggle right click, left click
Feb 19 03:32:46 <elb> especially if you don't have your stylus out
Feb 19 03:32:55 <johnx> has anyone heard anything more about that xomap rotation support?
Feb 19 03:32:59 <elb> I find that my tap-and-hold accuracy with a fingernail is ... not great
Feb 19 03:33:19 <lcuk_3> i hate using my finger for the normal things - like brightness and volume and stuff
Feb 19 03:33:39 <lcuk_3> but i wish it worked
Feb 19 03:39:33 <johnx> woo! the dude added patches for xomap rotation support
Feb 19 03:39:34 <johnx> :D
Feb 19 03:39:47 <pupnik> those idnt guys do nice stuff
Feb 19 03:40:25 <johnx> hopefully I can start a compile before work
Feb 19 03:40:26 <kaje> thanks for all the help tonight guys
Feb 19 04:11:07 <Tama^2> >.>
Feb 19 04:12:07 <Navi> :3
Feb 19 04:13:08 <GeneralAntilles> Navi, don't play with that!
Feb 19 04:16:55 <pupnik> plonk
Feb 19 04:19:51 <smackpotato> braddbr:  there is some information on x and the keyboard here https://garage.maemo.org/snippet/browse.php?by=lang&lang=2
Feb 19 04:27:50 <Tama^2> oh dear, the mac os skin for garage is ugly
Feb 19 04:28:23 <Tama^2> everytime I look at it I think: "arrgh what is THAT" then I remember *I* set it
Feb 19 04:28:25 <Tama^2> -_-
Feb 19 04:28:58 <Navi> Haha
Feb 19 05:26:10 <fmedina> hello
Feb 19 05:26:54 <fmedina> is thre a general n800/os2008 help channel?
Feb 19 05:28:07 <legind> fmedina, you're in it.  ask if google doesn't help you first
Feb 19 05:29:08 <fmedina> coolness
Feb 19 05:40:57 <tigrux> Hello guys.
Feb 19 05:41:35 <tigrux> Following a hint I got here, my youtube viewer is named tablet-tuber.
Feb 19 05:41:47 <tigrux> I also have a one-click installer.
Feb 19 05:41:49 <tigrux> http://tigrux.homelinux.org/tigrux/tablet-tuber/tablet-tuber.install
Feb 19 05:42:57 <tigrux> I also added support for conic.
Feb 19 05:43:45 <GeneralAntilles> UKTube sorta deal?
Feb 19 05:44:03 <tigrux> GeneralAntilles: Mine uses gstreamer, no idea the other.
Feb 19 05:44:11 <GeneralAntilles> mplayer
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 19 05:51:58 2008

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 19 05:52:15 2008
Feb 19 06:43:51 <hhedberg> Downloads section seems to be messed again.
Feb 19 06:45:22 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody hit it with as stick.
Feb 19 06:46:07 <hhedberg> I updated Mauku information for each IT OS release, and suddenly all the entries jumped under the IT OS 2007. No entries in OS 2006 or OS 2008 anymore, but three allmost the same entries under the OS 2007. :(
Feb 19 06:46:39 <hhedberg> Is someone having a stick alive here? :)
Feb 19 06:46:59 <GeneralAntilles> Probably not.
Feb 19 06:49:44 <doc|home> having a stick?
Feb 19 06:50:01 <doc|home> ah, I get you
Feb 19 07:04:15 <Tama^2> hawtness
Feb 19 07:04:17 <Tama^2> xD
Feb 19 07:04:53 <Tama^2> lol, I thought I would be replying to this: fmedina: coolness
Feb 19 07:05:10 <Tama^2> but my window stopped scrolling a while ago, whops
Feb 19 07:05:52 <GeneralAntilles> Ho ho . . . tablet-tuber is awesome!
Feb 19 07:06:13 <Tama^2> O.o
Feb 19 07:06:22 * Tama^2 googles 'tablet-tuber'
Feb 19 07:06:31 <GeneralAntilles> It's probably in your scrollback.
Feb 19 07:07:07 <Tama^2> it is
Feb 19 07:49:24 <Minti> how to add  "volume" to dspmp3sink ?
Feb 19 07:51:13 <Minti>  i used gst_element_link_many (source, volume, sink,NULL);
Feb 19 07:56:26 <AD-N770> Minti: I don't believe that this can work
Feb 19 07:56:38 <AD-N770> volume works on the raw audio data
Feb 19 07:57:06 <Minti> yes it is not working giving internal data flow error
Feb 19 07:58:26 <AD-N770> minti: gst-inspect-0.10 dspmp3sink
Feb 19 07:58:27 <Minti> AD-N770 , is there any other  way to set and get volume on dspmp3sink
Feb 19 07:59:11 <AD-N770> minti: property fvolume on dspmp3sink
Feb 19 07:59:40 <AD-N770> minti: run gst-inspect to see all the properties
Feb 19 08:00:29 <AD-N770> minti: there's also a volume property
Feb 19 08:02:32 <sleetdrop> anyone know how to let a unfocused window to get focus in gtk+
Feb 19 08:02:58 <AD-N770> minti; if you don't have gst-inspect on the device you have to install gstreamer tools package
Feb 19 08:03:12 <Minti> AD_N770, yes i run the same , u mean using g_object_set(...), i can set the volume
Feb 19 08:06:16 <AD-N770> Minti: yes
Feb 19 08:07:51 <Minti> AD-N770 , Thank you , i got it , i  am trying it
Feb 19 08:08:39 <AD-N770> I'll be back later
Feb 19 08:08:41 <AD-N770> see u
Feb 19 09:20:06 <LL00> which weather applet you guys use?
Feb 19 09:20:19 <johnx> omweather
Feb 19 09:20:47 <LL00> on download pages there are 2 omweather
Feb 19 09:20:54 <LL00> are both same?
Feb 19 09:21:21 <johnx> yeah, pretty sure
Feb 19 09:21:28 <Tama^2> I think they are
Feb 19 09:21:56 <LL00> with yellow text right?
Feb 19 09:22:16 <johnx> yeah ( you can change that of course )
Feb 19 09:23:23 <LL00> what about omweather icons set? do you use default one or another ones?
Feb 19 09:24:05 <johnx> I'm using the crystal icon set right now
Feb 19 09:24:43 <johnx> though Grzankas is nice too
Feb 19 09:25:38 <anders_> Is there some calendar app for os2008? Read only of vcal files is fine.
Feb 19 09:27:10 <johnx> gpe calendar should do that I think
Feb 19 09:27:23 <johnx> Dates looks nice, as well, but I don't know what it can import
Feb 19 09:29:33 <Spakman_> np
Feb 19 09:29:37 <Spakman_> oops
Feb 19 09:30:59 <anders_> Oh, dates indeed looks nice.
Feb 19 09:33:32 <AD-N770> bon dia / good morning
Feb 19 09:33:58 <johnx> mornin'
Feb 19 09:42:31 <|tbb|> morning all
Feb 19 09:43:43 <Tobotras> afternoon
Feb 19 09:45:55 <jku> some people just have no problem abusing mailing lists: "my application segfaults. Any hints?" (after several googleable other problems)
Feb 19 09:47:05 <johnx> entrance exams? member fees?
Feb 19 09:47:20 <X-Fade_> Internet diploma ;)
Feb 19 09:52:09 <icepolarpolar> hi morning ..
Feb 19 10:15:57 <LL00> does pge pack is cool?
Feb 19 10:16:09 <Tobotras> Where do I put an app icon to be accessible from .desktop's Icon=?
Feb 19 10:54:16 * Tobotras cant install application manager's icon :(
Feb 19 10:59:01 <florian> good morning
Feb 19 11:07:02 <fugitivo> morning
Feb 19 11:21:10 <icepolarpolar> hi may i ask what would be the standard packages to use for XML signature and encryption in maemo?
Feb 19 11:23:55 <jku> icepolarpolar, xmlsec is not included so I guess there's no standard
Feb 19 11:24:21 <csjpeter> hi all
Feb 19 11:24:22 <jku> still, I'd use xmlsec as libxml is included
Feb 19 11:26:06 <icepolarpolar> umm thanks jku
Feb 19 11:26:29 <icepolarpolar> i have been taking programming for granted when using java, JCE etc ..
Feb 19 11:26:56 <jku> taking what granted?
Feb 19 11:28:54 <icepolarpolar> sorry i mean i am more familiar with Java
Feb 19 11:36:04 <icepolarpolar> :)
Feb 19 12:16:27 <keesj> icepolarpolar: XML signature and encryption in maemo? what is that?
Feb 19 12:17:36 <keesj> are you searching for xml specific methods of encapsulating and existing xml inside an armour?
Feb 19 12:19:00 <icepolarpolar> i am searching for the ways to ensure XML data integrity
Feb 19 12:19:43 <icepolarpolar> have tried with xmlsec1 but i encountered some problems .. i dont get the same problem in ubuntu ..
Feb 19 12:20:27 <icepolarpolar> i am not sure if it is due to the openssl version ..
Feb 19 12:20:27 <icepolarpolar> in maemo we have openssl 0.9.7
Feb 19 12:20:27 <icepolarpolar> but xmlsec prefers 0.9.8
Feb 19 12:22:07 <icepolarpolar> maybe it is just i setup xmlsec wrongly .. :(
Feb 19 12:52:15 <Tobotras> Anybody else unhappy with builtin contacts viewer?
Feb 19 13:10:41 * b0unc3 good morning
Feb 19 13:50:35 <Jaffa> Anyone tried v2.2007.51-3 yet? Lack of a bump in initial release number suggests it is just a minor bugfix release
Feb 19 14:02:12 <jku> Jaffa, there's a new release?
Feb 19 14:02:33 <jku> tablets-dev.nokia.com is down, AFAICT
Feb 19 14:08:38 <hahlo> hehe tried n800 in windows with some beta-wc-suite, windows things it is a camera and beta-wc-suite screams device connected in wrong mode
Feb 19 14:11:31 <Jaffa> jku: it's just slow as a drunk snail
Feb 19 14:11:39 <Jaffa> RX-44_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin
Feb 19 14:15:35 <jku> something very wrong with the servers again, anyway -- I haven't seen this announced anywhere yet so there can't billions of people downloading at the same time...
Feb 19 14:15:51 <jku> s/can't/can't be/
Feb 19 14:15:51 <infobot> jku meant: something very wrong with the servers again, anyway -- I haven't seen this announced anywhere yet so there can't be billions of people downloading at the same time...
Feb 19 14:16:10 <solmumaha> maybe new hacker?
Feb 19 14:17:52 <jku> I guess it's time to fire up the torrents again -- if anyone manages to download it
Feb 19 14:22:49 <X-Fade_> jku: Someone can also make a binary diff. It is only 1.1KB size difference, so I guess the patch wouldn't be that big ;)
Feb 19 14:26:18 <jott> or repack the packages with new versions :)
Feb 19 14:26:42 <X-Fade_> jott: There are no updated packes.
Feb 19 14:26:48 <X-Fade_> Just the bootloader fixes.
Feb 19 14:26:54 <jott> ah ok..
Feb 19 14:27:06 <X-Fade_> It is the fix for the power-on issue some tablets have.
Feb 19 14:29:49 <X-Fade_> So there is really no point downloading it, if you don't suffer from that problem.
Feb 19 14:30:01 <jott> yeah i figured that ;)
Feb 19 14:32:29 <X-Fade_> But at least it helps the people that had to put the device in the freezer ;)
Feb 19 14:32:58 <MangoFusion> power on issue?
Feb 19 14:33:09 <X-Fade_> MangoFusion: You don't have it ;)
Feb 19 14:33:38 <MangoFusion> haha
Feb 19 14:34:06 <jott> it would save bandwith to just release a flash-able bootloader ;) ..
Feb 19 14:34:22 <jott> and you would not even need to reflash your base system ..
Feb 19 14:34:24 <X-Fade_> MangoFusion: The device wouldn't start if some people rebooted their device.
Feb 19 14:34:31 <MangoFusion> ah
Feb 19 14:34:45 <X-Fade_> jott: You don't have to. Just flash bootloader seperately..
Feb 19 14:34:55 <MangoFusion> well mine has been working fine so far - no serious issues
Feb 19 14:35:15 <MangoFusion> apart from OS2008, but that is a whole other issue ;)
Feb 19 14:35:18 <X-Fade_> I don't have the problem either.
Feb 19 14:35:23 <jott> a ~150mb bootloader ;p
Feb 19 14:37:59 * jott remembers his asm handwritten 512 byte mbr code he used in the dos times
Feb 19 14:50:34 <fooo> I'm looking at doing some fullscreen gfx coding, and am wondering if just using stock SDL provides the shortest route between a RAM buffer and the screen
Feb 19 14:50:59 <fooo> This is for full screen update every frame
Feb 19 14:51:11 <fooo> yes, I know it won't be 60fps ;=P
Feb 19 14:51:54 <jku> fooo, are you aware of the screen update problems?
Feb 19 14:52:06 <fooo> I know of the bandwidth problem and upper limits around 20fps
Feb 19 14:52:18 <jku> full screen update is not smooth, AFAIK
Feb 19 14:52:21 <fooo> but not too many details
Feb 19 14:52:40 <fooo> I'm a long-time programmer, but have never delved into Linux graphics programming
Feb 19 14:53:37 <fooo> but are there other emerging ways bypassing SDL to get any better performance, or is it best to just stick with SDL?
Feb 19 14:55:22 <mgedmin> afaiu the hardware doesn't let do full-screen 800x480 updates
Feb 19 14:55:28 <mgedmin> you get ugly tearing effects
Feb 19 14:55:45 <fooo> that doesn't really matter too much
Feb 19 14:55:47 <mgedmin> or so I've heard
Feb 19 14:55:54 <fooo> for me at least
Feb 19 14:56:41 <fooo> If doing something straight through X or another abstraction layer pushes full, unclipped, un-color-transformed buffers through faster, I'd like to start with that instead of having to port over later
Feb 19 15:55:12 <boolean> morning... does anyone know if there is/was a bsd port to either n770, n800 or n810?
Feb 19 15:57:29 <zoran> yeah, no connections as I know
Feb 19 15:57:59 <glass> nobodys discussed a bsd port iirc
Feb 19 15:58:40 <zoran> I recall netbsd rumours
Feb 19 16:00:57 <boolean> there is always netbsd rumours for any hardware :)
Feb 19 16:01:14 <zoran> soem dude installed it and used via ssh
Feb 19 16:01:18 <zoran> *some
Feb 19 16:01:38 <zoran> if it suits end user :)
Feb 19 16:05:28 <zoran> hm, bsd could be tricky, since it has no security net belloqw
Feb 19 16:09:13 * Tobotras reads 10 line making gtk dialog for 100th time and can't see his fault....
Feb 19 16:13:02 <cein> is there a way to backup the entire internal drive to a .bin?
Feb 19 16:15:58 <felipec> cein: dd?
Feb 19 16:16:34 <cein> can i run it from the device?
Feb 19 16:17:18 <cein> i guess just mount it from an external box and run it there eh
Feb 19 16:17:46 <zoran> you have to unmount fs first?
Feb 19 16:18:25 <cein> well the bottom line is how do i access the disk without ssh
Feb 19 16:19:45 <zoran> usb?
Feb 19 16:20:16 <cein> the root fs?
Feb 19 16:20:23 <zoran> should be
Feb 19 16:20:29 <cein> how
Feb 19 16:20:42 <zoran> is it seen ans umass device?
Feb 19 16:21:30 <cein> just the mmc
Feb 19 16:22:04 <felipec> cein: that's not good
Feb 19 16:22:09 <cein> ?
Feb 19 16:22:14 <cein> this is an n770 btw
Feb 19 16:22:25 <zoran> cein, I ment is it seen on desktop as umass?
Feb 19 16:22:38 <zoran> try in console
Feb 19 16:22:52 <zoran> it shows a lot of specs for device
Feb 19 16:23:09 <zoran> or in messages
Feb 19 16:23:22 <cein> it's a local disk in my computer
Feb 19 16:23:26 <zoran> there you could take a look at all kind of da0, da1
Feb 19 16:26:03 <cein> hmm
Feb 19 16:26:21 <zoran>   /var/logs
Feb 19 16:26:31 <cein> no idea what you're talking about
Feb 19 16:26:37 <zoran> :)
Feb 19 16:26:43 <zoran> my mom neither
Feb 19 16:26:46 <cein> heh
Feb 19 16:27:13 <zoran> k, plug in powered off device at usb port
Feb 19 16:27:22 <zoran> power it on
Feb 19 16:27:32 <zoran> then take a look at /var/log/messages
Feb 19 16:27:51 <zoran> and in /dev directory
Feb 19 16:28:12 <zoran> afeter you indentify the correct device name, mount it
Feb 19 16:28:23 <cein> i'm in windows
Feb 19 16:28:27 <cein> but i can fix that.. bbiab
Feb 19 16:28:35 <zoran> if not, you could use raw aspect with dd
Feb 19 16:29:03 * zoran gone to feed dragons
Feb 19 17:09:02 <kaje1> anyone know if there is a PPTP gui available for the n810?
Feb 19 17:22:04 <Jaffa> kaje1: there is no PPTP GUI for the N810
Feb 19 17:30:50 <blassey> dougt: I just got rescheduled
Feb 19 17:30:57 <blassey> do you want to get started now?
Feb 19 18:36:25 <nwidger> are there any good word processors for the n810 capable of editing .doc files?
Feb 19 18:39:25 <hrw|gone> http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/02/19/i-am-dad-now/
Feb 19 18:39:50 <inz> hrw, congrats
Feb 19 18:42:38 <fooo> I'd like just a better .txt file editor.  The default Notes one has a font that's WAY too big to fit anything onscreen, but I haven't nosed around the options
Feb 19 18:43:05 <fooo> "options" being the downloadable alternatives; the program options are bare
Feb 19 18:43:20 <fooo> also, landscape mode would be nice
Feb 19 18:43:41 * mgedmin_ likes vim
Feb 19 18:44:03 <fooo> do you use a file manager to fire up vim?
Feb 19 18:44:23 <fooo> that's another thing I need a decent replacement for...
Feb 19 18:44:33 <MangoFusion> landscape mode? it's already landscape...
Feb 19 18:44:45 <fooo> "sideways" mode, whatever ;)
Feb 19 18:45:07 <MangoFusion> oh portrait?
Feb 19 18:45:10 <Navi> Fire up gvim or get your filemanager to fire up a terminal running vim
Feb 19 18:45:11 <fooo> yep
Feb 19 18:45:34 <fooo> Which file manager do you use?
Feb 19 18:45:42 <Navi> On my desktop?
Feb 19 18:45:46 <fooo> on your tablet
Feb 19 18:45:57 <Navi> I don't have a tablet
Feb 19 18:46:13 <MangoFusion> good luck with that
Feb 19 18:46:49 <fooo> Actually, I wouldn't mind a straight up lightweight linux on my ITT instead of this custom hildon stuff
Feb 19 18:47:09 <Navi> I dpn
Feb 19 18:47:58 <Navi> I don't really care for the custom hildon stuff, no offense to any of the devs in here.
Feb 19 19:00:27 * lcuk waves from his 810
Feb 19 19:01:13 * Navi throws rocks at lcuk's 810
Feb 19 19:01:34 * lcuk installs vista on navis computer
Feb 19 19:01:49 * Navi luls 'cuz you can't install Vista on this computer.
Feb 19 19:02:38 <Navi> I'm assuming you just got the 810, right?
Feb 19 19:02:45 <lcuk> you are about to install vista on navis computer (cancel) or (allow)
Feb 19 19:03:05 <lcuk> no had it ages i just dont like typing in irc with it
Feb 19 19:03:11 <Navi> mmk
Feb 19 19:03:23 <MoRpHeUz> anybody here uses maemo mapper and noticed that the device is rebooting when using it for a while ?
Feb 19 19:03:25 <lcuk> its the last day i have to use this tiny kb
Feb 19 19:03:36 <Navi> Getting a bluetooth keyboard?
Feb 19 19:03:52 <lcuk> yer apple wireless its in wrapping paper
Feb 19 19:03:59 <Navi> :3
Feb 19 19:05:46 <Navi> I'm still a hundred bucks away from an N800
Feb 19 19:05:50 <derf> MoRpHeUz: Maemo mapper and the mmc driver seem to have some real disagreements.
Feb 19 19:05:55 <Navi> Only forty bucks away from a GP2X
Feb 19 19:06:13 <MoRpHeUz> derf: hhmm...I have the maps database and the maps itself inside mmc2
Feb 19 19:06:14 <Navi> Though, why I'd buy one again is beyond me.
Feb 19 19:06:20 <derf> Though on my N810 I haven't had a single issue since I reformatted as ext3.
Feb 19 19:06:30 <MoRpHeUz> hhmm...
Feb 19 19:08:09 <MangoFusion> all my IT needs
Feb 19 19:08:12 <MangoFusion> is tv out
Feb 19 19:08:14 <MangoFusion> or
Feb 19 19:08:21 <MangoFusion> a magnifying lens
Feb 19 19:09:00 <MangoFusion> neither of which i have, so i guess i'll just have to keep on squinting ;)
Feb 19 19:09:45 <MangoFusion> hmm, i was going to get a GP2X a while back, are they actually any good?
Feb 19 19:10:54 * Tobotras have finished quick contacts viewer.
Feb 19 19:12:28 <MangoFusion> neat
Feb 19 19:12:34 <Navi> They're nice for light gaming
Feb 19 19:12:41 <Navi> and emulation
Feb 19 19:15:14 <pupnik_> MangoFusion: if i wanted a games-only portable device today i would get the gp2x.
Feb 19 19:16:45 <keesj> pupnik_: really? not a psp or ds-lite ?
Feb 19 19:16:51 <MangoFusion> don't think i am that desperate yet, so i think i'll stick with my n800 ;)
Feb 19 19:17:08 <MangoFusion> otherwise i'll be overloaded with gadgets and chargers, etc
Feb 19 19:19:30 <keesj> I saw the new proto on linuxdevices . http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7004794073.html
Feb 19 19:19:41 <keesj> pandora !!
Feb 19 19:19:59 <lcuk> mango have you got anther machine at home on the network, if so use vnc
Feb 19 19:20:04 <pupnik_> i like the way the psx looks, but i hate sony.  don't like the way the ds-lite looks and am neutral about nintendo.  think the gp2x looks nice enough and i love the gp2x community
Feb 19 19:20:41 <pupnik_> yeah pandEUROa
Feb 19 19:21:12 <lcuk> gp has similar hardware to 8x0 doesnt it
Feb 19 19:21:48 <pupnik_> the gp2x is like the overclocked predecessor cpu to the nokia 770 core
Feb 19 19:22:24 <lcuk> which gaming devicehas 2420
Feb 19 19:22:44 <glass> n95 ":D"..
Feb 19 19:23:01 <MangoFusion> lcuk: sure, that's great but what if i am "on the road" so to speak?
Feb 19 19:23:27 <lcuk> but that has ngage as well
Feb 19 19:23:35 <MangoFusion> unless i could do something ridiculously silly like adhoc my n800 + n95 together and vnc to get tv out ;)
Feb 19 19:23:42 <lcuk> if you are on the road are you gonna lug a tv around?
Feb 19 19:23:55 <MangoFusion> though in all seriousness it would probably not be useful, haha
Feb 19 19:24:07 <MangoFusion> true, most likely not
Feb 19 19:24:22 <MangoFusion> just me overthinking
Feb 19 19:27:06 <MangoFusion> which brings me to the magnifying lens, haha
Feb 19 19:27:39 <Navi> The GP2X uses the MagicEyes MMSP2 SoC
Feb 19 19:28:16 <Navi> It's not close to the OMAP2420 other than an ARM processor
Feb 19 19:35:33 <Navi> Huh, you can get a refurbed GP2X for 100 bucks.
Feb 19 19:35:53 <Navi> Beats the 250ish I paid for it ages ago.
Feb 19 19:37:18 <lcuk> mango upgrade your eyes to include a macrozoom function
Feb 19 19:37:51 <lcuk> or just do the old fashioned way - move it closer
Feb 19 19:41:00 <MangoFusion> true, could do that
Feb 19 19:44:19 <fooo> The n800 screen isn't good enough for me.  Half the size and 440dpi would be better. ;)
Feb 19 19:49:31 <Navi> :P
Feb 19 20:05:32 <elb> the n800 screen rules
Feb 19 20:05:47 <elb> too bad the X server has a horribly misconfigured DPI
Feb 19 20:11:11 <lcuk_3> if it were configured correctly though you could get about 2 lines of text on couldnt you
Feb 19 20:11:41 <lcuk_3> there are so many programs which assume 8pt is just a "small" font without thinking its a physical measurement
Feb 19 20:24:29 <EruditeHermit> hey guys
Feb 19 20:24:37 <EruditeHermit> anyone tried the new OS2008 update?
Feb 19 20:24:54 <maddler> no... just found it was released!
Feb 19 20:25:21 <Navi> new?
Feb 19 20:26:39 <LastLemming> new os2008 release with new n830 release too
Feb 19 20:26:49 <jacques-work> ??
Feb 19 20:26:59 <maddler> 51-3
Feb 19 20:27:10 <EruditeHermit> yep
Feb 19 20:27:14 <maddler> jacques-work: just discovered while haning on maemo.org downloads...
Feb 19 20:27:17 <LastLemming> with wimax config features
Feb 19 20:27:19 <EruditeHermit> are there any release notes for it?
Feb 19 20:27:26 <LastLemming> maybe
Feb 19 20:27:33 <maddler> EruditeHermit: not AFAIK
Feb 19 20:27:47 <EruditeHermit> I don't want to be the first to test it =p
Feb 19 20:27:52 <jacques-work> verry interesting
Feb 19 20:27:54 <EruditeHermit> I wish we didn't have to flash things either
Feb 19 20:28:44 <lcuk_3> Scotty, we need those webservers running at warp 8.     im sorry cap'n she's gonna break apart when all these geeks find out theres an update
Feb 19 20:28:53 <maddler> hehehehe...
Feb 19 20:29:08 <maddler> EruditeHermit: I'm going to flash as soon the backup is done
Feb 19 20:29:18 <lcuk_3> i, for one, will be pissed if they bring out an upgraded model so soon
Feb 19 20:29:24 <Navi> LastLemming, ah, I see.  Sweet, how much does the new n830 cost? I hope that it's under 1,000USD
Feb 19 20:29:36 <lcuk_3> software update = the good, hardware = grrrr
Feb 19 20:29:44 <elb> lcuk_3: keep in mind that the 770 was replaced twice and EOL'd in like 2 years ;-)
Feb 19 20:29:44 <Navi> I'd be happy
Feb 19 20:29:46 <LastLemming> I think n830 it's only n810+wimax
Feb 19 20:30:05 <Navi> Yet another price cut on the N800, closer to my affordability
Feb 19 20:30:10 <lcuk_3> i bloody hope so - different connection model i can live with
Feb 19 20:30:23 <lcuk_3> ahhh - i wonder what would happen if i rma'd mine because of faulty gps
Feb 19 20:30:26 <Navi> if a new hardware revision is to be released
Feb 19 20:30:37 <EruditeHermit> lol
Feb 19 20:30:41 <EruditeHermit> I just got an n800
Feb 19 20:30:47 <LastLemming> same
Feb 19 20:30:52 <Navi> I'm broke.
Feb 19 20:30:59 <lcuk_3> im broken hearted
Feb 19 20:31:06 <EruditeHermit> I wouldn't mind because I got it for 1/2 price of an n810 and its not that different
Feb 19 20:31:10 * Navi hopes for a hardware revision
Feb 19 20:31:19 <Navi> within two weeks ;)
Feb 19 20:32:15 <EruditeHermit> maddler: let me know how it goes
Feb 19 20:32:24 <elb> nokia.com still only shows 50-1
Feb 19 20:32:26 <EruditeHermit> maddler: I am scared to do it =p
Feb 19 20:32:27 <elb> err, 50-2
Feb 19 20:32:31 <Navi> http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/19/nokia-n830-wimax-equipped-internet-tablet-photo-leaked/
Feb 19 20:32:32 <lcuk_3> wimax = mobile cellular data network isnt it
Feb 19 20:32:33 <maddler> hehe
Feb 19 20:32:33 <Navi> Lol
Feb 19 20:32:34 <elb> which I've been running for weeks
Feb 19 20:32:41 * Navi smells photoshop
Feb 19 20:33:40 <maddler> Navi: it is
Feb 19 20:34:04 <Navi> maddler, liar
Feb 19 20:34:06 <EruditeHermit> maddler: its taking forever to download
Feb 19 20:34:07 <EruditeHermit> lol
Feb 19 20:34:21 <elb> huh, but there's a 51-3 on the web site
Feb 19 20:34:27 <elb> stupid synchronization problems
Feb 19 20:35:32 <lcuk_3> ok, nokia are advertising their entire range under one open platform branding - lets wait until they push ngage for omap 2420 hardware and then hit then hard and fast with a major - and i mean major - tshirt campaign
Feb 19 20:36:02 <maddler> EruditeHermit: it was pretty fast here...
Feb 19 20:36:21 <elb> what is this t-shirt campaign supposed to accomplish?
Feb 19 20:36:27 <j0tt> anyone confirmed that it's just an update bootloader?
Feb 19 20:36:42 <Navi> I'd like a free t-shirt.
Feb 19 20:36:54 <Navi> Don't knock the t-shirt campaigns
Feb 19 20:39:04 <milhouse> does WiMAX require a SIM card?
Feb 19 20:39:51 <maddler> flashing
Feb 19 20:39:54 <LastLemming> it's like wimax better bandwith and range
Feb 19 20:40:06 <LastLemming> it's like wifi, better bandwith and range
Feb 19 20:40:07 <milhouse> a change log would be nice....
Feb 19 20:40:10 * milhouse dreams
Feb 19 20:40:32 <elb> Nokia has been saying their WiMax will be Sprint, and Sprint is CDMA
Feb 19 20:40:38 <elb> so ... I'm not seeing a SIM card ;-)
Feb 19 20:40:42 <milhouse> yes, but does WiMAX require any kind of hardware authentication module?
Feb 19 20:40:47 <milhouse> elb: ah ok thanks
Feb 19 20:40:59 <lcuk_3> engadget comments say the same advert is in newspapers with corrected text
Feb 19 20:41:24 <lcuk_3> n810...
Feb 19 20:41:43 <LastLemming> any one use granule?
Feb 19 20:41:48 <milhouse> i can't imagine there is a great deal of difference between 50-2 and 51-3 - just the WiMAX additions would sound about right, perhaps a few minor bug fixes...
Feb 19 20:42:16 <milhouse> but then again... why release 51-3 for N800/N810 when they don't have WiMAX?
Feb 19 20:42:21 <lcuk_3> i thought the 50 was weeknumber
Feb 19 20:42:36 <milhouse> it is... so these builds are from late last year
Feb 19 20:42:43 <milhouse> s/builds/new builds/
Feb 19 20:42:43 <infobot> milhouse meant: it is... so these new builds are from late last year
Feb 19 20:43:09 <lcuk_3> or they are from the future
Feb 19 20:43:25 <milhouse> that would be nice - maybe then we'd get a changelog
Feb 19 20:44:35 <lcuk_3> it could even just be a minor bugfix for something obvious they fixed just after as a stopgap for other things (something like gps adjustment since lots of complaints are there?)
Feb 19 20:45:24 <j0tt> .. < X-Fade_> It is the fix for the power-on issue some tablets have.
Feb 19 20:45:34 <milhouse> ah yes, that would make sense...
Feb 19 20:45:58 <milhouse> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2673
Feb 19 20:46:02 <j0tt> speaking so, the kernel is the same
Feb 19 20:46:09 <j0tt> as is the initfs..
Feb 19 20:46:17 <milhouse> maybe a post in that bug would alert those who have been nailed by it
Feb 19 20:46:21 <j0tt> the rootfs is different as the bootloader
Feb 19 20:46:38 <milhouse> they can take their n8x0 devices out of the fridge at last...
Feb 19 20:47:05 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Feb 19 20:47:09 <EruditeHermit> maddler: did you flash yet?
Feb 19 20:47:10 <elb> yeah, the cargo-cultism on that thread is *staggering*
Feb 19 20:48:02 <milhouse> i guess they're desperate - understandable really, as it's a shit situation to be in
Feb 19 20:48:26 <elb> oh, yeah, I understand the frustration
Feb 19 20:48:40 <elb> but ... come on, a g-spot on the power button that works when you hold the tablet at a certain angle?
Feb 19 20:48:57 <milhouse> well yeah... granted :)
Feb 19 20:49:22 <milhouse> freezer sounds implausible, but seems to work!
Feb 19 20:50:00 <maddler> EruditeHermit: flashed! :D
Feb 19 20:50:10 <maddler> EruditeHermit: at least it didn't bricked my n810! :D
Feb 19 20:50:15 <EruditeHermit> maddler: any differences?
Feb 19 20:50:24 <milhouse> Anyone giving odds on whether the maemo.org infra has a melt down over the next 24 hours? I'm giving 2/1 on
Feb 19 20:51:31 <GeneralAntilles> I'm more worried about tablets-dev.
Feb 19 20:51:44 <milhouse> yeah, that too
Feb 19 20:51:46 <GeneralAntilles> Did the firmware jump in size again? 134.7
Feb 19 20:52:01 <milhouse> nobody announce this new firmware until i've sucked down both images!! :)
Feb 19 20:52:43 <elb> both?
Feb 19 20:52:47 <maddler> EruditeHermit: hunting for changes! :D
Feb 19 20:53:09 <EruditeHermit> lol
Feb 19 20:53:14 <maddler> milhouse: lol!
Feb 19 20:53:15 <Tak> cargo-cultism?
Feb 19 20:53:15 <EruditeHermit> i am at 37%
Feb 19 20:53:17 <mwaldron> is there a firmware newer than 51-3 or is that wahty you're downloading mil?
Feb 19 20:53:17 <EruditeHermit> its so slow
Feb 19 20:53:24 <maddler> ok... I give you 15 minutes! :D
Feb 19 20:53:34 <milhouse> tablets-dev v. slow.... dying?
Feb 19 20:53:40 <maddler> 51-3 is the last one...
Feb 19 20:53:46 <EruditeHermit> maddler: I need 25
Feb 19 20:53:47 <EruditeHermit> lol
Feb 19 20:53:52 <mwaldron> they announced that yesterday on itt :)
Feb 19 20:53:53 <EruditeHermit> 50kb/s
Feb 19 20:53:55 <maddler> too much!
Feb 19 20:54:05 <maddler> mwaldron: I didn't noticed... :)
Feb 19 20:54:08 <elb> Tak: believing in the power of meaningless rituals because they seemed to have had an effect in the past ... a reference to SE Asian cultures following WWII, which believed that if they made up fake airstrips and airplane-looking objects, that magical "cargo" would fall from the sky
Feb 19 20:54:23 <Tak> ah
Feb 19 20:54:34 <elb> Tak: they saw Allied airstrips and relief distributions, and connected the two, but didn't understand the connection
Feb 19 20:55:38 <GeneralAntilles> Getting 250KB/sec here, milhouse.
Feb 19 20:55:44 <lcuk_3> what the hell are you lot about re power up problems?   i have no issues booting up my nokia.  i just stand on my head with a peg on my nose and one foot in the freezer and it comes on EVERYTIME!
Feb 19 20:56:04 <milhouse> my two downloads are going ok... i can access the bbc ok... but pulling up the tablets-dev n800 and n810 pages is a no-go
Feb 19 20:56:08 <maddler> GeneralAntilles: same here
Feb 19 20:56:12 <EruditeHermit> maddler: if you flash, do you need to reinstall all applications?
Feb 19 20:56:19 <milhouse> Erudite: yep
Feb 19 20:56:27 <EruditeHermit> that sucks
Feb 19 20:56:29 <elb> I got the n810 image pretty quickly
Feb 19 20:56:38 <maddler> EruditeHermit: yep... do a backup before flashing
Feb 19 20:56:41 <EruditeHermit> will all the chinook apps be compatible?
Feb 19 20:56:42 <GeneralAntilles> EruditeHermit, run a backup
Feb 19 20:56:44 <lcuk_3> EruditeHermit, take a backup first, it backs up your repo list and list of installed apps and tries to put them back
Feb 19 20:56:45 <milhouse> maybe i'm limited to 2 connections to tablets-dev...
Feb 19 20:56:48 <elb> but I just re-flashed yesterday, so ... I'm not excited to install it ;-)
Feb 19 20:56:51 <GeneralAntilles> it'll keep a list of your applications and reinstall them.
Feb 19 20:56:59 <EruditeHermit> cool
Feb 19 20:57:04 <elb> I have not had good luck with it actually reinstalling them
Feb 19 20:57:23 <elb> in fact, I had to reflash once because it mucked things up
Feb 19 20:57:32 <lcuk_3> not everything manages it though because sometimes things arent available this time or they were installed from now deleted debs etc - but you should get most things back from reputable sources
Feb 19 20:57:39 <elb> I think if you've installed anything which required red pill mode it should be treated with extreme caution
Feb 19 20:58:09 <elb> in my case, it failed on the rtcomm stuff, and left the package database in an inconsistent state
Feb 19 20:58:16 <GeneralAntilles> Enable extras, and make sure to uncheck all the 0KB items in the list.
Feb 19 20:58:19 <GeneralAntilles> You'll be fine then.
Feb 19 20:58:39 <elb> I *could* have fixed it with dpkg, but since that was first thing after flash, reflashing and installing by hand was easier
Feb 19 20:58:39 <GeneralAntilles> elb, rtcomm-beta?
Feb 19 20:58:52 <elb> GeneralAntilles: yes
Feb 19 20:58:53 <lcuk_3> and dont forget to put the peg on your nose!
Feb 19 20:59:30 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, that requires red-pill and their weird custom installer thing.
Feb 19 20:59:35 <GeneralAntilles> I can see how that might fail. ;)
Feb 19 20:59:49 <elb> yeah
Feb 19 20:59:51 <elb> it did :-)
Feb 19 21:00:54 <EruditeH1rmit> lol
Feb 19 21:00:58 <EruditeH1rmit> my net connection died
Feb 19 21:01:04 <EruditeH1rmit> and I had to restart the downlaod
Feb 19 21:01:06 <EruditeH1rmit> =(
Feb 19 21:02:23 <milhouse> think i'll announce the new firmware in the power drama bug... only seems fair to let those know who have put in the effort to comment against the bug.
Feb 19 21:02:50 <EruditeH1rmit> wait for 21mins!
Feb 19 21:02:52 <EruditeH1rmit> =p
Feb 19 21:02:59 <maddler> hmmm... can't find any visible change
Feb 19 21:03:07 <milhouse> hmmm... as one download finishes my page request at tablet-dev completes... looks like tablets-dev is limited to two connections
Feb 19 21:03:12 <milhouse> or is it my browser?
Feb 19 21:03:13 <jkyro> hmm, 140 kb/s
Feb 19 21:03:15 <milhouse> (firrefox)
Feb 19 21:03:58 <milhouse> for whoever was asking earlier, the new firmwares have increased by a few hundred bytes each
Feb 19 21:04:02 <maddler> restoring a 45MB backup... :)
Feb 19 21:08:29 <milhouse> i wonder when nokia/maemo will announce this firmware... great communication skills guys! ;)
Feb 19 21:09:18 <EruditeH1rmit> hopefully not for the next 10mins
Feb 19 21:09:24 <milhouse> hehe
Feb 19 21:09:41 <lcuk_3> it might simply not be a full update. give them time to get all mirrors duplicated and setup and for the website guys to have a coffee
Feb 19 21:09:48 <milhouse> maybe we should torrent this in anticpation...
Feb 19 21:10:02 <milhouse> seems like it's been known since this afternoon
Feb 19 21:10:11 <milhouse> known about
Feb 19 21:10:30 <milhouse> or should i say, stumbled upon
Feb 19 21:10:49 <lcuk_3> but according to the version number its been fixed since a week after the last release
Feb 19 21:11:14 <maddler> milhouse: indeed... they're acting dumb lately!
Feb 19 21:11:25 <lcuk_3> if there is no official confirmation how do ppl know just what it fixes
Feb 19 21:11:27 <milhouse> lately?
Feb 19 21:11:29 <milhouse> ;)
Feb 19 21:11:44 <maddler> hehehehe... well... lately i was worse than before! :D
Feb 19 21:12:02 <milhouse> i'd have thought the bug, which is supposedly fixed by this firmware, would be the obvious place to announce it... but nothing (so i did it for them)
Feb 19 21:12:19 <milhouse> maybe it doesn't fix that bug of course... :)
Feb 19 21:12:31 <maddler> indeed...
Feb 19 21:12:36 <lcuk_3> i agree milhouse, and there are nokia ppl posting on that bug report (at least from the language they use)
Feb 19 21:12:44 <milhouse> lately as in from the time they went on holiday and it all went to shit... and hasn't really recovered.
Feb 19 21:12:46 <maddler> but announcing it on maemo.org seems quite logical to me...
Feb 19 21:12:53 <lcuk_3> so i would have thought if this update actually fixed it then one might speak up
Feb 19 21:12:58 <milhouse> maddler: you'd think... :)
Feb 19 21:13:14 <maddler> milhouse: right
Feb 19 21:13:22 <lcuk_3> milhouse, where did you find out what it fixes?
Feb 19 21:13:22 <milhouse> maddler: there's an "Announcement" section - anyone know what it's for?
Feb 19 21:13:40 <milhouse> lcuk: based on speculation - no hard facts on this project i'm afraid
Feb 19 21:14:04 <lcuk_3> then i say dont get the power ppls hopes up - it might not fix problem
Feb 19 21:14:21 <milhouse> lcuk: we just make it up as we go alone in the absence of changelogs and other basic you'd normally expect on any semi-competently managed project
Feb 19 21:14:24 <elb> there will be a changelog, I'm sure
Feb 19 21:14:30 <milhouse> s/alone/along/
Feb 19 21:14:30 <infobot> milhouse meant: lcuk: we just make it up as we go along in the absence of changelogs and other basic you'd normally expect on any semi-competently managed project
Feb 19 21:14:37 <elb> at least, I seem to remember one for 50-2
Feb 19 21:14:56 <pupnik_> it feels to wear shoes sitting at a computer
Feb 19 21:14:57 <milhouse> elb: don't count it, never really had one before (and i mean a proper changelog cross referenced with bugzilla not a bulletpoint list of new features)
Feb 19 21:15:00 <EruditeH1rmit> they haven't technically released it yet, give them some time
Feb 19 21:15:14 <maddler> elb: minimalistic... but at lest we got some inf...
Feb 19 21:15:27 <lcuk_3> i agree milhouse, and there was one for the last update - i personally think this is an accidental release to the linux servers. a full release involves Windows update client which hasnt seen the light of day yet
Feb 19 21:15:27 <florian> re
Feb 19 21:15:46 <maddler> lcuk_3: perhaps...
Feb 19 21:16:40 <lcuk_3> and it seems silly to NOT release all the code created from 50-2 to 6-3    instead of just including 1 week of minor tweaks
Feb 19 21:16:44 <konttori> lcuk_3: what bug report?
Feb 19 21:17:11 <lcuk_3> the cargo cultist powerup ppl
Feb 19 21:17:18 <milhouse> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2673
Feb 19 21:17:39 <hrw> ~curse i18n in maemo
Feb 19 21:17:40 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, i18n in maemo !
Feb 19 21:17:52 <hrw> and morning all
Feb 19 21:17:53 <hrw> ;)
Feb 19 21:17:55 <elb> lcuk_3: in the absence of any information, that's a bold claim
Feb 19 21:18:08 <elb> perhaps it fixes specific bugs for which a long vetting-out was warranted
Feb 19 21:18:13 <lcuk_3> its a bold claim to say it fixes stuff when its just a random binary at this moment
Feb 19 21:18:14 <maddler> doh... getting 180MB of packages... :)
Feb 19 21:18:34 <maddler> I need a local mirror for downloaded packages...
Feb 19 21:18:35 <milhouse> apparently there are reports on ITT that it fixes the bug
Feb 19 21:18:37 <hrw> milhouse: tx!
Feb 19 21:18:41 <lcuk_3> wsince there isnt ANYTHING from nokia about any other part of it, how do you know that it hasnt been hacked up there?
Feb 19 21:18:51 <hrw> now it is time to take NOLO from flash image and flash it
Feb 19 21:19:43 * lcuk_3 will eat crow if nokia updates site, but i'm not jumping until its official
Feb 19 21:19:49 <konttori> ah. that bug!
Feb 19 21:19:55 <hrw> ~curse nokia for not releasing packaged software updates as packages but as flash images
Feb 19 21:19:55 <elb> yeah, I'd definitely wait for an update from Nokia to go installing it
Feb 19 21:19:56 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nokia for not releasing packaged software updates as packages but as flash images !
Feb 19 21:20:34 <konttori> hrw: perhaps you should attend fosdem next week
Feb 19 21:20:53 <hrw> konttori: cannot - my daughter was born today
Feb 19 21:21:01 <EruditeH1rmit> maddler: so any changes that you notice?
Feb 19 21:21:01 <konttori> oh! Congratulations!
Feb 19 21:21:01 <hrw> ~die nokia, die
Feb 19 21:21:02 * infobot murders nokia, die, takes two shots to the head then crumples to the ground, lifeless...
Feb 19 21:21:18 <hrw> 130MB download for small file ;(
Feb 19 21:21:18 <milhouse> hrw: congrats fella
Feb 19 21:21:25 <hrw> thx milhouse
Feb 19 21:21:47 <elb> hrw: congratulations
Feb 19 21:22:02 <milhouse> hrw: so we can expect to see you on here at silly times of the night for the next few months? :)
Feb 19 21:22:25 <hrw> milhouse: rather not
Feb 19 21:22:56 <milhouse> mothers job then? ;)
Feb 19 21:23:31 <milhouse> new babies have a tendency to wake parents up at 3am...
Feb 19 21:23:33 <elb> biology dictates that yeah, that's pretty much the mother's job
Feb 19 21:23:45 <milhouse> chauvanist! ;)
Feb 19 21:24:02 <elb> show me a man who produces milk, and I'll show you a man who can feed the newborn at 3AM
Feb 19 21:24:51 <glass> men can produce milk afaik/iirc
Feb 19 21:24:53 <EruditeH1rmit> maddler: where are the flashing instructions?
Feb 19 21:24:54 * pupnik_ debunks babies
Feb 19 21:25:20 <elb> glass: afayk, aayr, there exist documented cases of male mammals in *extreme situations* producing trace amounts of milk
Feb 19 21:25:33 <elb> uyriiwihniwyata
Feb 19 21:26:08 <glass> then theres that man milk comic on teh internets i'm sure someone here has read
Feb 19 21:26:22 <hrw> ~curse bug 2763 ;D
Feb 19 21:26:23 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, bug 2763 ;D !
Feb 19 21:26:28 * milhouse wishes I hadn't started this topic now...
Feb 19 21:26:31 <maddler> EruditeH1rmit: from liunux you ahve to sue flasher-3 util
Feb 19 21:26:31 <hrw> I have maemo curse evening
Feb 19 21:26:58 <lcuk_3> if maemo were a man i would force it to produce milk with a rather hungry teathing child
Feb 19 21:27:02 <hrw> maddler: no - use flasher-3, sue nokia
Feb 19 21:27:04 <EruditeH1rmit> maddler: yeah but there was a page detailing exactly how to do it. I remember some weird stuff like holding down a home button or so
Feb 19 21:27:05 <pH5> hrw: and congratulation evening it seems. congrats!
Feb 19 21:27:14 <hrw> pH5: thx man
Feb 19 21:27:14 <pH5> is anybody playing with the MBX?
Feb 19 21:27:22 <maddler> http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/using_the_linux_flasher_tool.html
Feb 19 21:27:44 <hrw> pH5: I know one - was not Zabel his lastname?
Feb 19 21:27:45 <hrw> ;D
Feb 19 21:27:45 <milhouse> lactating computer fetish... I'm sure there's a web site out there that caters for it...
Feb 19 21:27:53 <lcuk_3> ph5, not at the moment i dont think - unless pupnik is lurking and hacking
Feb 19 21:27:58 <pH5> lol
Feb 19 21:28:20 <pH5> I'm just trying to turn it on, but either I don't do it right or it is not where I expect it to be on omap2420.
Feb 19 21:28:44 <lcuk_3> hardware register voodoo?
Feb 19 21:28:50 <maddler> < hrw> maddler: no - use flasher-3, sue nokia <- what?
Feb 19 21:30:03 <lcuk_3> pH5, how much have you managed to decode from the other binary?
Feb 19 21:30:37 <pH5> sure feels like voodoo
Feb 19 21:30:45 <pH5> lcuk_3: most of the device initialization (that involves register setup)
Feb 19 21:30:58 <pH5> nearly nothing of the bridge to userspace and memory management
Feb 19 21:31:05 <lcuk_3> yer, its the same in most directions - thick forests of strange codes
Feb 19 21:31:10 <hrw> maddler: "19 22:29 < maddler> EruditeH1rmit: from liunux you ahve to sue flasher-3 util" - just re-interpretting your talk
Feb 19 21:31:43 <pH5> the omap2430 sdk is very nice as it includes full dwarf debugging info.
Feb 19 21:31:57 <lcuk_3> lactating dwarfs?
Feb 19 21:31:59 <pH5> but still reversing is a lot of stupid work and prone to errors if not automated
Feb 19 21:32:15 <lcuk_3> :O manual
Feb 19 21:32:29 <lcuk_3> i thought it had been run through a dissassembler
Feb 19 21:32:40 <lcuk_3> or are you on about back to c
Feb 19 21:32:46 <pH5> exactly
Feb 19 21:33:19 <pH5> we have all the structure and function declarations
Feb 19 21:33:44 <lcuk_3> its just working out what each fn does
Feb 19 21:34:34 <pH5> but there are some things hardcoded for omap2430. for the clock/power setup I know that the registers at 0x49006000 on omap2430 are found at 0x48008000 on omap2420
Feb 19 21:34:37 <lcuk_3> is this the full opengl interface or the actual core driver
Feb 19 21:34:47 <pH5> but what if the mbx's registers are not on 0x5000xxxx?
Feb 19 21:35:17 <pH5> lcuk_3: everything is available. core + 2d lib + egl lib
Feb 19 21:35:28 <pH5> but I'm just looking at the core kernel module for now.
Feb 19 21:35:31 <lcuk_3> we just dont have the chip docs
Feb 19 21:35:36 <pH5> 'just'
Feb 19 21:35:39 <lcuk_3> lol
Feb 19 21:36:05 <lcuk_3> i remember when computers practically came with circuit diagrams and full details
Feb 19 21:37:11 * hrw -> sleep
Feb 19 21:37:11 <hrw> bye
Feb 19 21:38:47 <pupnik_> the zenith Z-100 was greatness
Feb 19 21:39:35 <pupnik_> and as horrible as tandy was, they had usable sound and graphics when ibm could only bleep bleep and draw 3 colors
Feb 19 21:40:37 * lcuk_3 would love to draw with only 3 colors on 810
Feb 19 21:40:49 <pupnik_> dosbox: cga
Feb 19 21:40:56 * lcuk_3 would have the fastest damn refresh this side of town
Feb 19 21:41:09 <lcuk_3> yer pupnik, but thats still sending all that deata over the lcd bus
Feb 19 21:42:40 * pH5 wishes he had the omap2420 TRM or at least a table of the io memory regions
Feb 19 21:44:08 <elb> I have to assume there's a reason Nokia hasn't bothered with accelerated rendering
Feb 19 21:44:13 <elb> (possibly power requirements?)
Feb 19 21:44:36 <lcuk_3> i think we had it clicked at the 2420 only having enough of an internal framebuffer for a 640*480 display
Feb 19 21:44:43 <pH5> elb: I suspect licensing problems and what lcuk_3 just said.
Feb 19 21:45:10 <elb> ahh, yeah, that would do it
Feb 19 21:45:13 <lcuk_3> licensing can't be an issue - nokia ARE partners and release 2420 devices FROM THE SAME PRODUCT LINE with the 3d enabled
Feb 19 21:45:14 <milhouse> is it possible to tell if 51-3 has the same rootfs as 50-2?
Feb 19 21:45:39 <milhouse> the 3d issue on tablets is totally bogus... can't be a licencing issue
Feb 19 21:46:26 <milhouse> the hardware is pretty ropey anyway but could still serve as a test bed for drivers in preparation for future hardware...
Feb 19 21:46:29 <elb> though if the framebuffer is too small, that seems pretty likely to me
Feb 19 21:47:13 <milhouse> i guess they still don't have the resources to focus on anything but essential developement and 3d isn't essential right now
Feb 19 21:47:56 <pH5> milhouse: you think it's just because of integration work that would be needed?
Feb 19 21:48:57 <milhouse> not sure, but it would need one or more resources to work on driver development, and integration
Feb 19 21:49:13 <milhouse> but right now there is no call for 3d in OS2008 so could be viewed as wasted effort
Feb 19 21:49:47 <milhouse> in-house work may be on-going assuming there is 3d support in OS 2009 on a device with improved video hardware
Feb 19 21:50:05 <elb> they seem to have the critical acceleration going, actually
Feb 19 21:50:10 <elb> (like video scaling)
Feb 19 21:50:30 <milhouse> that's just in the LCD driver isn't it? not really 3d
Feb 19 21:50:44 <milhouse> LCD driver/hardware - one of the two...
Feb 19 21:51:08 <milhouse> there's no use of the IVA either... but then I don't think it would do any good on the current hardware
Feb 19 21:51:09 <elb> no, it's not (necessarily) in the 3d hardware
Feb 19 21:51:33 <milhouse> lots of unused hardware in the OMAPs :(
Feb 19 21:52:27 <elb> that's not :(, it's opportunity ;-)
Feb 19 21:53:00 <milhouse> by the time it's reverse engineered it will be obsolete
Feb 19 21:53:18 <milhouse> reverse engineered or understood enough to have an open source driver developed
Feb 19 21:54:26 <milhouse> TI need to get their shit together and make their technical documentation freely available... it's got to be in their best interests hasn't it?
Feb 19 21:54:39 <elb> chip makers live in a funny world
Feb 19 21:54:52 <elb> I don't know
Feb 19 21:55:03 <elb> I would think so, but the entire community seems to be pretty secretive about *some* things, and very open about others
Feb 19 21:55:29 <GeneralAntilles> We need the dinosaurs to die off
Feb 19 21:55:32 <felipec> elb: for example?
Feb 19 21:55:33 <GeneralAntilles> then chipmakers will get smart.
Feb 19 21:55:38 <milhouse> hopefully Intel MIDs will bring pressure on TI and their OMAP range to the point where they are left behind unless they open source their docs and drivers
Feb 19 21:55:46 <GeneralAntilles> TI would have a huge powerhouse on their hands if they opened up everything around OMAP.
Feb 19 21:56:17 <elb> oh crap, it's BGA and European
Feb 19 21:56:20 <elb> PREPARE FOR FAILURE
Feb 19 21:56:20 <GeneralAntilles> It's in a chipmaker's best interest to give users to leverage their hardware as much as possible.
Feb 19 21:56:37 <glass> who owns the powervr ip tho?
Feb 19 21:56:39 <GeneralAntilles> s/users/users the power/
Feb 19 21:56:39 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: It's in a chipmaker's best interest to give users the power to leverage their hardware as much as possible.
Feb 19 21:56:47 <milhouse> glass: PowerVR I think
Feb 19 21:56:50 <glass> does ti own powervr now?
Feb 19 21:56:53 <milhouse> glass: Another dinosaur
Feb 19 21:57:09 <elb> felipec: for example, virtually all microcontrollers these days have a whole host of peripherals; typically the majority of these are described in free or very low-cost documentation in mind-smashing detail
Feb 19 21:57:28 <milhouse> PowerVR is part of Imagination Technologies - not part of TI
Feb 19 21:57:41 <elb> felipec: but then there are things like "security units" taht do encryption, or "multimedia units" which have hardware codecs, etc. for which documentation is expensive and requires NDAs or licensing
Feb 19 21:58:26 <milhouse> mobile devices will become popular as a result of the software that is developed for them... if knowledge is withheld, software won't be developed, sales will not take off...
Feb 19 21:59:16 <lcuk_3> i would feel better knowing i could sell this device to all my friends if it had graphics good enough to not suck
Feb 19 21:59:17 <milhouse> PowerVR is licensed to TI
Feb 19 21:59:35 <milhouse> lcuk: good luck with that... I've tried and failed every time
Feb 19 22:00:08 <elb> the price is still too high
Feb 19 22:00:17 <elb> for the fact that, out of the box, it doesn't really *do* anything
Feb 19 22:00:18 <milhouse> lcuk: and it has too many flaws, limitations, rough edges...
Feb 19 22:00:46 <milhouse> elb: the 770 became good value in the end
Feb 19 22:00:48 <pH5> they should cut the price by the percentage of unused transistors on the omap2420
Feb 19 22:00:53 <GeneralAntilles> elb, it browses the internet better than any other mobile device in this size range that I've ever used.
Feb 19 22:00:55 <lcuk_3> the lcd interface by the way can do movie display at 30fps because it uses a REDUCED (color) resolution display image, sending over only 12 bits of information.  if you try that with a full 16 bit rgb interface (which possibly the powervr might put out) then it casnt keep up
Feb 19 22:00:55 <elb> it's only salable to people who recognize the fact that a general-purpose computer in your pocket is Just Plain Cool :-)
Feb 19 22:01:05 <elb> GeneralAntilles: that's damning with faint praise if I've ever heard it :-)
Feb 19 22:01:30 <lcuk_3> milhouse, i agree about the rough edges - its a tinkerers dream tho :)
Feb 19 22:01:50 <elb> milhouse: yeah, the 800 is rapidly on its way to being at a good consumer price point
Feb 19 22:01:52 <lcuk_3> its good enough to become a house computer - when one is busy its available
Feb 19 22:02:13 <GeneralAntilles> elb, it's already there.
Feb 19 22:02:24 <elb> GeneralAntilles: at $230?
Feb 19 22:02:36 <elb> I think it's still too high for anyone who doesn't want a gadget for gadget's sake
Feb 19 22:02:38 <lcuk_3> i found out today i can buy a latop for £100
Feb 19 22:03:00 <milhouse> lcuk: i'd like to see the next device become a dockable desktop computer, a desktop replacement much as laptops have become desktop replacements - pop it in a docking station and work with using a full size keyboard, mouse, video screen... I think IBM created such a concept about 10 years ago
Feb 19 22:03:02 * lcuk_3 might get a touchkit for it
Feb 19 22:03:04 <pH5> lcuk_3: it is possible that the powervr supports yuv420 surfaces, at least the 2d blitting library seems to have support for that.
Feb 19 22:03:04 <elb> while it's a better web surfer than other mobile devices, it's still not in the same league as a real computer
Feb 19 22:03:26 <GeneralAntilles> elb, and it doesn't cost anywhere near the price of a real computer. :P
Feb 19 22:03:33 <elb> GeneralAntilles: that's not at all true
Feb 19 22:03:40 <elb> you can buy a real computer at Wal*Mart for $200
Feb 19 22:03:40 <lcuk_3> i sure hope so, but upon reflection 640*480 might be speedy enough
Feb 19 22:03:47 <GeneralAntilles> That's not a real computer.
Feb 19 22:03:51 <elb> sure it is
Feb 19 22:03:52 <GeneralAntilles> That's a pile of junk parts.
Feb 19 22:03:58 <elb> it's a better web surfer than the n810
Feb 19 22:04:02 <lcuk_3> course it is GeneralAntilles, its just not a mobile one
Feb 19 22:04:09 <elb> it's not *portable*, but that portability carries too much price
Feb 19 22:04:28 <elb> when I think about the non-gadget friends and family I have, I can't see selling any of them an n800 for $200
Feb 19 22:04:56 <elb> they'll all say "why would I want to surf the web on a tiny screen and fuss over clicking links with my fingernail or a stylus?"
Feb 19 22:05:21 <elb> I mean, don't get me wrong -- I think it's awesome, and I think that with the right software it will go a long way
Feb 19 22:05:33 <elb> but I don't think it's ready for general consumption
Feb 19 22:05:56 <GeneralAntilles> Nor does Nokia.
Feb 19 22:05:56 <milhouse> this is what i want the Nokia Tablet to become: http://domino.research.ibm.com/comm/pr.nsf/pages/news.20020206_metapad.html
Feb 19 22:06:11 <milhouse> (slightly smaller, naturally!)
Feb 19 22:06:23 <elb> sure, Nokia isn't even pushing for general consumption
Feb 19 22:06:41 <GeneralAntilles> milhouse, that holds absolutely no appeal for me.
Feb 19 22:06:44 <elb> what is this, like step 3 of at least 5 steps?
Feb 19 22:07:00 <GeneralAntilles> There's no way on earth any sort of ARM could keep up with what I do with my real computers.
Feb 19 22:07:06 <felipec> elb: yeap
Feb 19 22:07:22 <milhouse> GA: I think it could replace the desktop for many people in time, and they carry their information everywhere (or at least, carry the device that provides access to their information everywhere)
Feb 19 22:07:33 <milhouse> GA: Won't appeal to "power" desktop users though, i accept that.
Feb 19 22:07:46 <elb> 99% of what I do with my real computers, the n810 is *plenty* fast enough to do
Feb 19 22:07:56 <GeneralAntilles> There's no way it would replace a real computer for anybody but my grandmother.
Feb 19 22:08:04 <GeneralAntilles> e-mail, web, office . . . maybe.
Feb 19 22:08:12 <elb> my laptop spends more time as a glorified X terminal than anything else
Feb 19 22:08:18 <GeneralAntilles> But everybody else I know either does games, or multimedia, or creative stuff, etc.
Feb 19 22:08:25 <milhouse> my brother was here yesterday - said all he needs is email, web and occasional word processing.
Feb 19 22:08:35 <elb> then you don't know enough computer scientists ;-)
Feb 19 22:08:46 <milhouse> for him, a fully blown Pentium Dual Core is complete overkill
Feb 19 22:08:49 <pupnik_> it's 2008.  where are the high res VR goggles
Feb 19 22:08:49 <elb> I don't use PCs for games, I gave that up years ago -- it's a nightmare
Feb 19 22:08:58 <pupnik_> i can't believe we don't have 1600x1200 vr goggles yet
Feb 19 22:09:19 <lcuk_3> GeneralAntilles, remember, for YEARS we lived with computer software which fitted an architecture and ran WELL.  i could do spreadsheets on an 8mhz machine.  sure, you cant run the latest fancy version of something, but that doesnt mean it will end up as bad software
Feb 19 22:09:27 <elb> multimedia ... it would be nice to be able to play web-type video clips with some reliability, I'll grant that, but I suspect that's more a software problem than a hardware limitation
Feb 19 22:09:31 <pupnik_> well put lcuk_3
Feb 19 22:09:39 <lcuk_3> i played games and enjoyed them on slow machines
Feb 19 22:09:50 <pupnik_> this explains you hacking framebuffer :)
Feb 19 22:09:52 <elb> anything past that, I have a computer in my living room that I use to play multimedia stuff on a real screen and speakers
Feb 19 22:09:58 <lcuk_3> :)
Feb 19 22:10:14 <pupnik_> lcuk_3: isn't it depressing how a sidey-scroller on a 200-400mhz machine can't keep up 30fps?
Feb 19 22:10:23 <elb> so ... emacs, latex, and a C compiler, and I'm ready to get real work done :-)
Feb 19 22:10:49 <pupnik_> well that's the price of portability and rapid development
Feb 19 22:10:57 <lcuk_3> absolutely (but give me cygnus editor back from my amiga)
Feb 19 22:11:27 <elb> I've been wishing for *years* that someone would produce a 500MHz or so ARM laptop that got 12h of battery life and was light enough to want to cart around
Feb 19 22:11:31 <felipec> pupnik_: of course it can do 30fps... depending on the resolution :)
Feb 19 22:12:22 <elb> the iBook dual-USB reincarnated on modern manufacturing with modern batteries and disks would be *perfect* for me
Feb 19 22:12:29 <pupnik_> elb: yeah it's a crying shame Psion died
Feb 19 22:12:31 <elb> so ... an n810 seems like plenty of power :-)
Feb 19 22:13:42 <lcuk_3> its not fast enough if you consider trying to run bloatware on them. we have to think of ways to get apps running smoothly - pupnik is working really well with his dosbox and finding neat tricks, elb is bashing his way into the powervr and im just wandering around trying to see how it all clicks together
Feb 19 22:14:08 <lcuk_3> i hope the lurkers are busy ;)
Feb 19 22:14:13 <pupnik_> same
Feb 19 22:14:32 <maddler> doh... at last! restore finished!!!
Feb 19 22:14:43 <pupnik_> it's been nice to see the activity on the haxxorish side in the past few months
Feb 19 22:14:48 <johnx> quite...
Feb 19 22:14:50 <lcuk_3> you have restored: faith in humanity
Feb 19 22:14:59 <maddler> lcuk_3: hehehe...
Feb 19 22:15:11 <lcuk_3> well i got this little box to do everything i could with it
Feb 19 22:15:17 <maddler> lcuk_3: if you were it Italy... you wouldn't trust humanity! :D
Feb 19 22:15:43 <pupnik_> maybe someday someone should make a bastard device with broken psion netbook cases and n800 cores
Feb 19 22:16:09 <milhouse> port IT OS to Netbooks! :)
Feb 19 22:16:23 <milhouse> run for hours... might not be very fast.
Feb 19 22:16:27 <pupnik_> the screen and cpu are just painful now
Feb 19 22:16:32 <GeneralAntilles> It's too bad Nokia didn't position maemo for more devices.
Feb 19 22:16:33 <pupnik_> yeah the battery was awesome
Feb 19 22:16:43 <pupnik_> agree with GeneralAntilles
Feb 19 22:16:52 * johnx agrees with GeneralAntilles 
Feb 19 22:17:10 <johnx> it's too bad they kept the source to so many random odds and ends
Feb 19 22:17:11 <pupnik_> anybody got the latest skinny of linux on the netbook pro?
Feb 19 22:17:50 <jku__> johnx, amen, It just slows everyone down and gives Nokia nothing
Feb 19 22:18:09 <pupnik_> it employes lawyers maybe :)
Feb 19 22:18:09 <milhouse> Nokia needs competition
Feb 19 22:18:18 <milhouse> And it shall have it soon enough
Feb 19 22:18:18 <lcuk_3> its got it
Feb 19 22:18:29 <johnx> no one blames them for closed source wifi...but closed source brightness applet?!
Feb 19 22:18:34 <lcuk_3> the 2420 developers working at symbian on the other nseries
Feb 19 22:18:41 <GeneralAntilles> Like I said, the dinosaurs need to die off.
Feb 19 22:18:49 <milhouse> lcuk: who - in terms of mobile linux in a similar form factor?
Feb 19 22:20:22 <milhouse> (apart from apple and the iPhone!)
Feb 19 22:20:23 <lcuk_3> archos devices are similar spec
Feb 19 22:20:31 <lcuk_3> cheaper price
Feb 19 22:20:35 <milhouse> but not open
Feb 19 22:20:41 <milhouse> might be linux... not really sure
Feb 19 22:20:46 <pupnik_> i used my n810 as a flashlight today to light up a car undercarriage to tow it away
Feb 19 22:20:48 <johnx> at least one was linux
Feb 19 22:20:55 <johnx> I think it's still stuck on a 2.4 kernel
Feb 19 22:21:07 <lcuk_3> lol pupnik - max brightness i hope
Feb 19 22:21:57 <MangoFusion> rather expensive flashlight ;)
Feb 19 22:22:51 <lcuk_3> yes, but think about how many people who need a flashlight (and also a quick browse on the internet) and would snap up the chance of paying out that little bit more for a "deluxe" model
Feb 19 22:23:45 <jku__> maddler, so you decided to announce the update for Nokia
Feb 19 22:29:29 <elb> lcuk_3: I don't use bloatware :-)
Feb 19 22:29:41 <elb> well, except for emacs, of course
Feb 19 22:31:28 <pupnik_> man oprofile kernel is so fun
Feb 19 22:36:31 * j0tt scatters some debug symbols on pupnik_ 
Feb 19 22:45:37 <lcuk_3> technical thinking.  is it plausable to create an SDL application on windows with vc6 and make the same source compilable on scratchbox with gcc ?
Feb 19 22:46:13 <maddler> jku__: why not?
Feb 19 22:46:18 <maddler> :):)
Feb 19 22:46:58 <maddler> there was a thread on ITT as well...
Feb 19 22:48:14 <Kheru> why if i click on MD5SUM from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php  it download(and save) MD5SUM,  (with comma)  ?
Feb 19 22:48:57 <lcuk_3> all filenames appear with a comma, and you can also change the week number to anything arbitary and it still offers a download
Feb 19 22:49:11 <lcuk_3> (on the actual bin file)
Feb 19 22:49:47 <maddler> Kheru: yep... I had a comma added to flasher download too...
Feb 19 22:49:59 <maddler> dunno... sounds like a typo in the download script
Feb 19 22:50:26 <lcuk_3> or the start of a new parameter - the download is a function and not a direct download
Feb 19 22:50:27 <EruditeH1rmit> just finished upgrading
Feb 19 22:50:28 <Kheru> lcuk_3, good php coder ... ;)
Feb 19 22:50:34 <EruditeH1rmit> I notice NO difference =p
Feb 19 22:50:47 <EruditeH1rmit> but I am sure there were bugfixes
Feb 19 22:52:06 <GeneralAntilles> Mara on ITT seemed to think that this was pretty much only a change for the power-on issue.
Feb 19 22:53:34 <EruditeH1rmit> well
Feb 19 22:53:48 <EruditeH1rmit> perhaps
Feb 19 22:54:16 <EruditeH1rmit> GeneralAntilles: does the tablet slow down as you use up more memory?
Feb 19 22:54:51 <GeneralAntilles> Er, well, if it starts swapping heavily, yes.
Feb 19 22:55:27 <EruditeH1rmit> at what point will it do that?
Feb 19 22:55:49 <GeneralAntilles> When the RAM fills up completely with necessary data. . . .
Feb 19 22:56:11 <johnx> EruditeH1rmit, or were you talking about the internal storage memory?
Feb 19 22:56:19 <EruditeH1rmit> internal storage memory
Feb 19 22:56:31 <EruditeH1rmit> I am almost out
Feb 19 22:56:39 <EruditeH1rmit> because of all the stuff I have installed
Feb 19 22:56:44 <GeneralAntilles> Delete the PDFs.
Feb 19 22:57:00 <johnx> and that tour movie
Feb 19 22:57:26 <johnx> or advertisement or whatever it is
Feb 19 22:58:36 <johnx> although I don't completely understand jffs2 or the way blocks are allocated on the flash...if it's like other filesystems, writes may get slower when it's very close to full
Feb 19 23:00:06 <lcuk_3> the internal memory is like a small fixed size hard drive with your operating system on.  clear as much none essential things off or uninstall unused programs to make sure you have enough space.  move data onto an external or extension memory stick or consider moving your boot drive onto into a larger memory stick
Feb 19 23:00:51 <EruditeH1rmit> well does it follow the general rule that after 90% it will get slower
Feb 19 23:01:09 <lcuk_3> i would assume it would do
Feb 19 23:01:13 <johnx> EruditeH1rmit, I don't honestly know
Feb 19 23:01:30 <johnx> it doesn't face the same penalty for seek times that mechanical media do
Feb 19 23:02:04 <lcuk_3> no, but the code has to branch more to follow chains
Feb 19 23:02:55 <johnx> hmm...
Feb 20 00:00:32 <nwidger> hello, anyone around?
Feb 20 00:01:17 <elb> 260 people are around
Feb 20 00:01:30 <elb> if you have a question, ask it, and someone will probably answer :-)
Feb 20 00:01:40 <nwidger> words of wisdom :)
Feb 20 00:01:41 <elb> with 260 people, generally small talk doesn't get you very far ;-)
Feb 20 00:01:59 <nwidger> im just wondering if there are any good word processors for the n810 that can edit .doc files?
Feb 20 00:02:17 <nwidger> i know there's an old abiword port, but is it stable and will in run on the n810?
Feb 20 00:04:00 <johnx> there's a new abiword port too
Feb 20 00:04:08 <johnx> in beta right now
Feb 20 00:04:10 <Mousey> ^_6
Feb 20 00:04:12 <Mousey> ^_^
Feb 20 00:04:12 <nwidger> johnx: cool!  any chance you could get me a link?
Feb 20 00:04:15 * Mousey huggles maemo devels
Feb 20 00:04:48 <johnx> nwidger, I'll find the thread on itt, it's a semi-closed beta so you have to pm/email someone to get in on it
Feb 20 00:04:56 <nwidger> johnx: hmmm, ok
Feb 20 00:05:09 <johnx> not sure of the usability yet (haven't tried it)
Feb 20 00:05:50 <nwidger> k
Feb 20 00:06:50 <johnx> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14821&page=12&highlight=abiword
Feb 20 00:07:20 <nwidger> johnx: thank you! :)
Feb 20 00:07:34 <johnx> no need to re-read the whole thread. most of it is historical...
Feb 20 00:09:00 <nwidger> so who should i pm asking for entrance to the beta?
Feb 20 00:09:18 <nwidger> megabyte405?
Feb 20 00:09:32 <johnx> yes...he does tell you to PM him to get on the beta :)
Feb 20 00:09:36 <megabyte405> yep
Feb 20 00:09:41 <megabyte405> pm me for access to the beta :)
Feb 20 00:09:45 <johnx> :D
Feb 20 00:09:57 <megabyte405> apologies for such a long thread but I figured it was best to keep it all in one place so that people didn't get lost creating a new thread
Feb 20 00:10:16 <megabyte405> I know that every time someone made a new AbiWord thread it took me a while to find it, and I was working on the crazy thing :)
Feb 20 00:10:51 <megabyte405> It's a closed beta only in that I don't feel right letting just anybody install it without giving them a stern precaution and a request to file bugs
Feb 20 00:10:55 * elb returns to the "forums are a shitty way to communicate" topic of earlier ;-)
Feb 20 00:11:20 <nwidger> megabyte405: by pm do you mean pm on the forums or via irc?
Feb 20 00:11:23 <johnx> elb, someone put up a yahoo group or something. :P
Feb 20 00:11:26 <megabyte405> forums
Feb 20 00:11:30 <nwidger> oh, sorry :P
Feb 20 00:11:45 <megabyte405> well, there is an AbiWord mailing list, but as much as I try, I don't really ever see anyone form the maemo community show up there.
Feb 20 00:11:47 <megabyte405> np
Feb 20 00:11:56 <megabyte405> I just reply to those in an asynchronous fashion
Feb 20 00:12:02 <megabyte405> so that's really the best/only way for me to do it
Feb 20 00:12:02 <elb> johnx: hah
Feb 20 00:12:05 <nwidger> megabyte405: i dont have an account on the forums... egh
Feb 20 00:12:16 <megabyte405> ah well you'll want one sooner or later
Feb 20 00:12:33 <elb> if nothing else, so you can set the css to something amenable to tablet viewage ;-)
Feb 20 00:12:37 <megabyte405> sooner since I request that folks subscribe to that thread so I don't aveh to send 6 pms each with 5 recipients every time I do an update
Feb 20 00:13:02 <megabyte405> I'm out for the night - looking forward to hearing from you nwidger and anybody else, esp. if they're handy with GDB and/or maemo
Feb 20 00:13:26 <elb> I assume they also have to want to use a word processor?
Feb 20 00:13:36 <megabyte405> not necessarily
Feb 20 00:13:43 <johnx> elb, all they need is to make a word processor crash :)
Feb 20 00:13:50 <megabyte405> if they just want to debug that's fine with me too, don't really care if they actually use it once it works :D
Feb 20 00:13:55 <nwidger> megabyte405: sent :)
Feb 20 00:14:02 <elb> heh
Feb 20 00:14:15 <megabyte405> heck, if I get a debian packaging wizard who drops by with a nice debian folder for the abiword plugins I'd be happy too
Feb 20 00:14:15 <maddler> megabyte405: is there an OS2008 build as well?
Feb 20 00:14:21 <megabyte405> 2008 and 2007
Feb 20 00:14:31 <megabyte405> in theory 2006 should also work, but in practice I have slow internet
Feb 20 00:16:09 <megabyte405> :D
Feb 20 00:16:11 <megabyte405> later all
Feb 20 00:20:17 <elb> the internet was pretty fast in 2006, already
Feb 20 00:20:18 <elb> ;-)
Feb 20 00:21:45 <s_tec> I have an n800 running OS2008. Is there some way to ssh in? The "OpenSSH client and server" package on maemo doesn't want to install.
Feb 20 00:23:38 <johnx> it should install
Feb 20 00:23:43 <johnx> it works for a lot of other people
Feb 20 00:23:53 <elb> what do you mean by "doesn't want to install"
Feb 20 00:23:54 <johnx> is it not downloading?
Feb 20 00:24:20 <s_tec> I get "Unable to install openssh. Incompatible application package."
Feb 20 00:24:31 <sbaturzio> maddler: still there?
Feb 20 00:26:30 <johnx> s_tec, which openssh are you trying to install?
Feb 20 00:26:47 <johnx> it should be available inside application manager once you enable the extras repository...
Feb 20 00:26:54 <s_tec> "OpenSSH client and server" from http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/communications/
Feb 20 00:27:02 <elb> yeah, don't do that
Feb 20 00:27:13 <elb> go to your application manager and uncheck 'disable' on maemo extras
Feb 20 00:27:16 <elb> then install it from there
Feb 20 00:27:19 <elb> it should go fine
Feb 20 00:27:29 <elb> I don't know why the one on maemo.org is busted, but it doesn't install for me either
Feb 20 00:28:16 <s_tec> Ok, thanks.
Feb 20 00:29:01 <s_tec> Worked!
Feb 20 00:34:06 <maddler> sbaturzio: yess
Feb 20 00:34:22 <sbaturzio> maddler: have you tried the new OS2008?
Feb 20 00:34:27 <maddler> yep...
Feb 20 00:34:34 <sbaturzio> good news?
Feb 20 00:34:39 <maddler> didn't find any noticeable change though
Feb 20 00:34:48 <sbaturzio> only bugfixes?
Feb 20 00:34:57 <maddler> well... it works and won't brick you device! :D
Feb 20 00:35:00 <maddler> isn't it enough? :D
Feb 20 00:35:01 <sbaturzio> :D
Feb 20 00:35:25 <sbaturzio> well..a really annoying bugfix could be the thumb keyboard: using the finger it's hard to open it
Feb 20 00:35:37 <sbaturzio> did you tried it?
Feb 20 00:35:57 <maddler> I'm on n810
Feb 20 00:36:06 <sbaturzio> ooops...sorry: just forgot
Feb 20 00:36:16 <sbaturzio> well...ok: I'll try it tomorrow
Feb 20 00:36:19 <maddler> :)
Feb 20 00:36:19 <elb> sbaturzio: you just have to tap like a NINJA
Feb 20 00:36:21 <sbaturzio> on my N800
Feb 20 00:36:33 <sbaturzio> elb: a ninja? :)
Feb 20 00:36:45 <sbaturzio> fast and furious? :D
Feb 20 00:36:48 <elb> exactly
Feb 20 00:36:50 <elb> fast and hard
Feb 20 00:36:51 <maddler> hehehe...
Feb 20 00:37:53 <sbaturzio> naaaaah....previous OS versions were much better than this
Feb 20 00:38:03 <GeneralAntilles> Just use the center d-pad
Feb 20 00:38:13 <GeneralAntilles> Thumb-activated has NEVER been reliable.
Feb 20 00:38:36 <ds3> is it possible to use scanned maps in GIF/JPG/PNG/TIFF/etc format with maemo-mapper v2?
Feb 20 00:39:12 <sbaturzio> GeneralAntilles: yes I know, but if I'm holding the N800 with left hand, usually my left thumb is used to keep it in a position that don't let me reach the button easily
Feb 20 00:39:51 <sbaturzio> and using the finger on the screen was much more easy than the center dpad
Feb 20 00:41:23 <maddler> sbaturzio: get an N810? :D
Feb 20 00:41:25 <sbaturzio> (argh....s/is used to keep it in a position/is placed in a position/   sorry)
Feb 20 00:41:57 <sbaturzio> maddler: only for the mechanic keyboard? naaa...not enough
Feb 20 00:42:00 <jga23> anybody know a good tutorial on creating packages for python?  the one on maemo.org seems dated
Feb 20 00:43:45 <maddler> sbaturzio: indeed...
Feb 20 00:44:09 <sbaturzio> anyway...just downloaded the new OS image, tomorrow I'll try it
Feb 20 00:44:17 <sbaturzio> now is time to sleep
Feb 20 00:44:27 <sbaturzio> thanks to *
Feb 20 00:44:29 <sbaturzio> Bye
Feb 20 00:44:33 <maddler> cheers
Feb 20 01:01:38 <ds3> okay, prehaps I should ask -- anyone have Maemo Mapper v1 DEBs for OS2008?
Feb 20 01:02:19 <GeneralAntilles> There was a thread on ITT yesterday.
Feb 20 01:02:33 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody put together a more efficient filesystem storage method
Feb 20 01:02:40 <GeneralAntilles> ended up porting 1.4 in the process.
Feb 20 01:03:20 <ds3> hmm
Feb 20 01:03:35 <ds3> it really sucks that maemo-mapper v2 don't seem to allow a easy way to handle scanned mapps
Feb 20 01:03:36 <ds3> maps
Feb 20 01:03:50 <ds3> got official scanned USGS Topo maps that would be ideal
Feb 20 01:03:57 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16838&highlight=maemo+mapper
Feb 20 01:04:12 <maddler> time to hit the bed...
Feb 20 01:04:17 <maddler> before my wife sues me! :D
Feb 20 01:04:20 <maddler> later dudes...
Feb 20 01:04:28 <ds3> this is what I get for not doing daily searches of ITT ;)
Feb 20 01:07:17 <rkabir> anyone have any idea why my n810 is super slow to boot?
Feb 20 01:07:30 <rkabir> it hangs on the "NOKIA" screen before the boot noise and hand screen
Feb 20 01:09:03 <johnx> define "super slow". how long is it taking?
Feb 20 01:09:05 <ds3> GaneralAntilles: thanks. that seems to be pretty much what I am looking for.
Feb 20 01:10:16 <GeneralAntilles> rkabir, friend had trouble with swap + corrupted internal card and slow boots.
Feb 20 01:10:40 <rkabir> johnx: a minute maybe? i'll have to time it
Feb 20 01:11:04 <GeneralAntilles> Why are you turning it off, anyway?
Feb 20 01:11:15 <johnx> so about 1 minute total to boot?
Feb 20 01:11:22 <johnx> that sounds like my normal boot times...
Feb 20 01:11:35 <rkabir> GeneralAntilles: good call on the card, I'll check it out. I turn it off to conserve power
Feb 20 01:11:48 <GeneralAntilles> Turning it off to conserve power is stupid.
Feb 20 01:11:55 <rkabir> johnx: oh, huh. maybe it's unfair for me to compare boot times of a clean system to one with a bunch of apps installed?
Feb 20 01:12:01 <GeneralAntilles> You end up using more power shutting down and booting.
Feb 20 01:12:10 <johnx> rkabir, it depends on what you installed
Feb 20 01:12:20 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, that would depend on how long he's not using it for
Feb 20 01:12:22 <rkabir> GeneralAntilles: so then, i should do offline mode, and lock screen and keys?
Feb 20 01:12:28 <GeneralAntilles> Pretty much
Feb 20 01:12:35 <rkabir> i turn off overnight when not charging (i know, i know - i can charge every night)
Feb 20 01:12:37 <GeneralAntilles> unless you're leaving it off for more than 24 hours.
Feb 20 01:13:20 <rkabir> oh wtf - it just booted in less than 10 seconds
Feb 20 01:13:28 <rkabir> for the past few days it's taken 1-2 minutes
Feb 20 01:13:33 <GeneralAntilles> On the charger?
Feb 20 01:14:03 <johnx> rkabir, do you have ssh server installed? or a web server or something that starts at boot?
Feb 20 01:15:58 <rkabir_> GeneralAntilles: maybe it was the swap thing you spoke of, and it was cleared?
Feb 20 01:16:00 <rkabir_> sorry abou tthat - my connection died
Feb 20 01:16:04 <rkabir> maybe it's the memory card
Feb 20 01:17:06 <GeneralAntilles> Could be
Feb 20 01:17:06 <GeneralAntilles> Lot of N810s shipped with badly formatted internal cards.
Feb 20 01:17:17 <rkabir> hmmm
Feb 20 01:20:45 <rkabir> i'm guessing there's no fsck on maemo?
Feb 20 01:23:11 <johnx> you mean included or available?
Feb 20 01:23:26 <johnx> it comes with fsck.vfat and I'm sure fsck.ext2 is available
Feb 20 01:24:37 <rkabir> hmm ok
Feb 20 01:27:26 <rkabir> i get malloc issues - but i'll mess around with checking the memory card via my desktop instead
Feb 20 01:27:31 <rkabir> you guys have been a great help
Feb 20 01:27:32 <rkabir> thanks
Feb 20 02:42:19 <MaxMaxMax> Hi all
Feb 20 02:42:38 <johnx> hi
Feb 20 02:44:07 <Navi> Hi
Feb 20 02:44:11 <MaxMaxMax> not sure where to ask about it, but I"m one of the winners of the N810 maemo
Feb 20 02:44:12 <MaxMaxMax> device program but my discount code (both the "old" one and the new one I got on 11/12/07) aren't working on the shop I selected during my application. Is this normal at that time?
Feb 20 02:44:26 <GeneralAntilles> "winners"? :P
Feb 20 02:44:43 <GeneralAntilles> e-mail Nokia.
Feb 20 02:44:48 <GeneralAntilles> We can't make them work.
Feb 20 02:44:58 <MaxMaxMax> ah, so it's not just me?
Feb 20 02:45:22 <GeneralAntilles> Dunno, most everybody has used theirs already.
Feb 20 02:45:48 <MaxMaxMax> damn.. :S I just sent a mail to the Nokia consumer care of my online shop
Feb 20 02:53:58 <MaxMaxMax> thanks for your answers GeneralAntilles
Feb 20 02:54:06 <MaxMaxMax> too bad I can't get my N810 right now :S
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 20 02:59:57 2008