**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 20 02:59:57 2008 Feb 20 03:00:23 i've heard of cygwin for windows. if i install this does it mean i can then install and run scratchbox compiling tools (not the simulator) directly on windows? Feb 20 03:01:05 Ahaha Feb 20 03:01:08 Good luck with that. Feb 20 03:01:12 In theory, yes. Feb 20 03:01:38 In practice, you're probably better off just cutting a body part off with a rusty hack-saw and calling it a day. Feb 20 03:02:08 i have found a much better ide which works well in windows (and linux too but thats defeating what i want to do Feb 20 03:02:34 Why are you using Windows, anyway? :P Feb 20 03:02:45 qemu on windows is in alpha stage Feb 20 03:02:46 because its actually quite stable Feb 20 03:02:56 scratchbox uses qemu for cross-compiling Feb 20 03:02:57 Ha Feb 20 03:03:09 it runs well, and my dayjob depends upon my knowledge of it Feb 20 03:03:15 so it may not go very smoothly if at all Feb 20 03:03:32 ahhh damn Feb 20 03:04:02 but im currently running inside a vmware box so i'm already at minimum speed Feb 20 03:04:27 its weather it would break even Feb 20 03:09:25 Could anyone try my package? It is tablet-tuber as some suggested instead of yt-viewer. Feb 20 03:09:49 http://tigrux.homelinux.org/tigrux/tablet-tuber/ Feb 20 03:10:09 Packages, source code and one-click-installer is there. Feb 20 03:10:22 * are there Feb 20 03:43:07 When using vnc viewer on my n810, all text entered is double entered on the host...is there a key timing setting or something I can adjust? Feb 20 04:12:53 tigrux, works fine here, but the video is pretty slow Feb 20 04:13:13 johnx: Yea, very unfortunated. Feb 20 04:13:23 the UI is incredibly fast though Feb 20 04:14:38 have you seen flv playback in mplayer? Feb 20 04:15:03 Nope. Feb 20 04:15:16 it's pretty fast Feb 20 04:15:40 I sill don't why the video is slow. Because in a desktop runs very good. Feb 20 04:15:55 johnx: Try installing the .deb in your ubuntu gutsy system. Feb 20 04:16:08 and it's only using 48% the processing power on the tablet Feb 20 04:16:25 but top claims it's using 95% of the available memory (!!) Feb 20 04:25:10 heh Feb 20 04:25:37 Gotta be a bit more memory-friendly there. Feb 20 04:25:54 johnx: What? My program? Feb 20 04:25:59 yes :) Feb 20 04:26:12 johnx: By the way, were you who suggested naming it tablet-tuber? Feb 20 04:26:13 top might be lying to me...I'm going to install atop Feb 20 04:26:37 oh, top doesn't count cached memory as free memory Feb 20 04:26:41 yeah :) Feb 20 04:26:44 so it'll be inaccurate :P Feb 20 04:27:01 johnx: Thanks, I like the name. Feb 20 04:27:13 johnx: I still need an icon though. Feb 20 04:28:01 johnx: I think you also suggested use conic. Thanks! Feb 20 04:28:06 nope Feb 20 04:28:10 that was someone else :) Feb 20 04:28:39 johnx: Ey! top is a liar. Feb 20 04:28:50 ok, that's good to hear Feb 20 04:29:02 still, I'll try and get atop installed Feb 20 04:29:22 According to it, maemo-launcher is using 81% and osso-media-serv 40% Feb 20 04:34:13 still, very interesting that it doesn't appear CPU limited Feb 20 04:35:06 johnx: Yea, it's not about cpu. There is a problem elsewhere. Feb 20 05:09:55 <_darc> hello all Feb 20 05:38:44 how about USB -> Wireless USB Dongle -> Wireless USB Receiver -> USB Audio Speakers Feb 20 05:39:24 or wireless USB to USB SPDIF output to receiver. Feb 20 05:39:46 that would give you wireless home/whole house audio. Feb 20 06:20:06 hey folks, quick question... doing a dist-upgrade wants to remove osso-software-version, is that bad times? Feb 20 06:22:03 Don't do any apt-get dist-upgrade or upgrading. Feb 20 06:23:36 er, really? Feb 20 06:25:56 It breaks things. Feb 20 06:26:17 how so? the updater app is essentially doing apt/dpkg operations Feb 20 06:26:35 ITOS isn't set up to be upgraded through apt. Feb 20 06:26:59 Upgrading through apt frequently does funny things when packages get upgraded to broken things. Feb 20 06:27:01 Just don't do it. Feb 20 06:27:12 well, sure, if things get updated wrong, then yes Feb 20 06:27:24 and things frequently will. Feb 20 06:27:26 so don't do it. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 20 06:49:06 2008 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 20 07:02:15 2008 Feb 20 07:19:52 I iinstalled the last firmware , and it seems Feb 20 07:19:52 that there is a bug in the clock application.What can help me? Feb 20 07:22:50 Raghu: What bug? Feb 20 09:54:44 bon dia / good morning Feb 20 09:55:22 Ciao Feb 20 09:55:46 morning all Feb 20 09:56:25 huomenta Feb 20 10:02:39 <_berto_> bom dia Feb 20 10:27:26 Morning, all Feb 20 10:40:01 megabyte405_: goodmorning! :) Feb 20 10:40:21 howdy Feb 20 10:40:24 I sent the stuff Feb 20 10:40:35 somebody had problems with the KDE installation on n810? Feb 20 10:40:45 with "impossible update" error? Feb 20 10:41:04 on the first file installation (local-mmc1) Feb 20 10:42:38 megabyte405_: yep... seen... was trying to answer but ITT somehow refuses to send the reply! :D Feb 20 10:43:08 no worries Feb 20 10:43:30 if it's a problem that might affect more people, file a bug if applicable, and/or post to that thread Feb 20 10:43:35 I'm subscribed and you should be too :) Feb 20 10:44:58 yep Feb 20 11:25:42 Hi all ! Feb 20 11:26:26 * PyGTKEditor_Addi grrrrrrrrrrrrrr Feb 20 11:27:51 mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Py Feb 20 11:28:17 hi khert Feb 20 11:28:44 http://www.weebl.jolt.co.uk/pie.htm Feb 20 11:33:08 hi lcuk_3 Feb 20 11:35:56 someone know what have been made in the last firmware update ? Feb 20 11:36:01 changes log ? Feb 20 11:36:31 the version number has been increased Feb 20 11:36:39 ; Feb 20 11:36:42 ;) Feb 20 11:37:19 pffff ... they have been increadible fast to change the version number ! Feb 20 11:37:29 :) Feb 20 11:37:31 Khertan_Work, it fixes the power on issue some people are having, supposedly nothing else Feb 20 11:37:44 Khertan_Work: http://www.eth0.it/2008/02/19/os-2008-version-2200751-3-out/ Feb 20 11:38:04 ah ok ... so has mine never reboot :) i don't know if i ve this problem :) Feb 20 11:38:17 thnks for the infos and the link. Feb 20 11:38:24 can someone give me a reason to tell my friend why Nokia 770 is no more supported by Maemo ? Feb 20 11:38:35 OS2008 is not available for 770 Feb 20 11:38:42 It is, too. Feb 20 11:38:53 uh ? Feb 20 11:39:42 http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/internet_tablet_hacker_edition_pushed_at_chinook_level.html Feb 20 11:40:45 Zic, because it's old hardware and we can't expect N to support things indefinitely? Feb 20 11:41:12 We _could_ expect open source HW drivers so Nokia stopping support wouldn't be so bad, but that's another story... Feb 20 11:42:10 GeneralAntilles: HE isn't actually supported, it's just a hacked up version. Feb 20 11:42:11 Zic, not just old -- also the first HW revision of a new hardware type. Feb 20 11:42:36 plus: "All built-in applications start and run including VoIP but overall the device is not responsive and reliable enough for serious usage." Feb 20 11:42:38 ok, I will tell him, but I think it's not a good reason : most of opensource project continue to support old hardware, but yeah, there is another story with Nokia drivers, I know Feb 20 11:42:38 hmm...probably more a lack of large chunks of ITOS being open sourced rather than anything in the kernel this time Feb 20 11:42:53 dpb__, have YOU tried it? :) Feb 20 11:42:58 Works great over here. Feb 20 11:43:08 Nope. I don't use my 770. Feb 20 11:43:09 Zic, large chunks of Maemo aren't open sourced Feb 20 11:43:16 Zic, exactly: 770 is not an open source project Feb 20 11:43:27 hmm, an hacked version of ITOS2008 exist for Nokia 770 ? Feb 20 11:43:38 Did you click the link I sent? Feb 20 11:44:04 yup, Nokia did the work, but there are limitations to how much old hardware can support new software with new features (read: bloat) Feb 20 11:44:07 johnx & jku__ : yes, I know, it's why I started the adventure of Maemo with a Nokia N800 Feb 20 11:44:22 because parts of it are closed source? Feb 20 11:44:26 :) Feb 20 11:44:41 I knew 770 before the N800, but most part was closed … Feb 20 11:45:11 different parts are closed now, maybe a little more, maybe a little less Feb 20 11:45:23 GeneralAntilles: thanks for the link Feb 20 11:45:31 if I'd known how much of it was closed I probably would have stuck to my Zaurus, honestly... Feb 20 11:45:38 GeneralAntilles: it works well ? Feb 20 11:45:50 Works fine for my purposes. Feb 20 11:45:56 Better than OS2006 or OS2007HE. Feb 20 11:46:29 Works great over here. <= My question is more « It's like OS2008 of N8*0 plateform ? Feb 20 11:46:40 sorry, poor english speaker here ;) Feb 20 11:47:28 Not sure how to answer that, no, it's not exactly the same functionality as OS2008 on an N8x0, but it's probably about the best it can be considering the 770's hardware. Feb 20 11:47:31 GeneralAntilles: or for the old hardware, it's a « small and lightweight » release ? Feb 20 11:47:45 It's not been trimmed down, really, no. Feb 20 11:47:48 ok, thanks for your answer, I will tell my friend ;) Feb 20 11:47:49 Zic, not really Feb 20 11:48:05 Mostly it's just combining the 770 parts of OS2006 with OS2008. Feb 20 11:49:25 other question from me, this time : the N800 is designed to going unmaintened like the 770 in a far, (far far, I hope) future ? Feb 20 11:49:44 because N810 was started, I want to say Feb 20 11:49:57 Support has been guaranteed through OS2009 Feb 20 11:50:05 N800 is more opensourced, so, it's my question ;) Feb 20 11:50:06 My guess is that it'll go beyond that. Feb 20 11:50:11 ok Feb 20 11:50:14 thanks ;) Feb 20 11:51:49 the N810 is quite close to N800, so N800 will probably be supported as long as N810 Feb 20 11:52:32 N800 is still missing a lot of source, including wireless driver and bluetooth driver. It is also missing source code for many applications and key parts of the desktop, as well as the battery charging support. Feb 20 11:53:05 yep Feb 20 11:55:31 it is not possible to modify the bootloader on a n800 is it? So i couldn't ever run a kernel that didn't need a initfs? Feb 20 11:56:04 hmm...could kexec be a solution to that? Feb 20 11:56:33 that's pretty hacky though Feb 20 11:56:59 the bigger problem is that if you don't run bme the battery won't charge Feb 20 12:03:30 johnx: sorry, I was afk, => « N800 is still missing a lot of source, including wireless driver and bluetooth driver. It is also missing source code for many applications and key parts of the desktop, as well as the battery charging support. » What key part of the desktop ? Feb 20 12:03:51 this is a long list... Feb 20 12:03:54 hardware code is not my problem, I don't know « how to touch it » Feb 20 12:04:02 but part of the desktop … Feb 20 12:04:46 I only know about mini-Opera browser Feb 20 12:04:59 but, in OS 2008, it's a mozilla based navigator, isnt'it ? Feb 20 12:05:08 isn't it* Feb 20 12:05:08 most statusbar applets, including volume and brightness (probably more), the browser and communications menus on the left bar, most of the home applets Feb 20 12:05:39 browser UI, parts of calculator, lots of media player Feb 20 12:06:12 hmm, in OS2008, I suspect (except for hardware software) only mapper, thanks for your infos Feb 20 12:06:32 there is more without source Feb 20 12:06:48 I suspected* Feb 20 12:07:33 most of the settings panel I think Feb 20 12:07:37 It's why restricted meta package is necessary to have a complede hildon desktop ? Feb 20 12:07:47 from Nokia repository ? Feb 20 12:07:49 yes Feb 20 12:07:52 binary package … Feb 20 12:07:59 ok, thanks ;) Feb 20 12:08:02 most of the binary-only stuff isn't in any repository Feb 20 12:08:25 when Nokia drops support for the N800 it will be no different than how the 770 is now Feb 20 12:09:35 >.> hopefully the new release will fix the battery problem on my N800, wishful thinking Feb 20 12:10:21 Tama^2, battery problems? Feb 20 12:10:22 last question, an other subject : do you know about Ubuntu Mobile version ? It's dedicated to some UMPC like Samsung Q1 Ultra, which is more a PC than an Internet Tablet like the N800 Feb 20 12:10:35 do you know if it's compatible with N800 ? Feb 20 12:10:42 Zic, there is no ARM version of Ubuntu Mobile as far as I know Feb 20 12:11:00 yeah, as soon as I stick an sdcard in he battery drains way faster Feb 20 12:11:01 I know that Qtopia port exist for N800 Feb 20 12:11:11 even when I leave it idle Feb 20 12:11:18 also, ubuntu mobile's memory requirements will probably be a little high for the N800 Feb 20 12:11:23 we are talking 10x power consumption Feb 20 12:11:28 !! Feb 20 12:11:30 johnx: hmm, true, I don't realize about ARM proc of N800 :} Feb 20 12:11:34 even if the sdcards are umounted Feb 20 12:11:44 *unmounted Feb 20 12:11:56 I guess I should test on mine to see if that's the case Feb 20 12:12:15 do 2 sd cards double the draw of 1 sd card? Feb 20 12:12:24 apparently yes Feb 20 12:12:27 wow Feb 20 12:12:32 that's unfortunate Feb 20 12:12:40 that's probably been biting me for a while as well Feb 20 12:12:59 oh, last question (bis), about the update of mapper : it's uninstallable with a strange error of depends, but it's an application supported officially by Nokia, and I have official repos … idea ? Feb 20 12:13:38 update are available but never installed since my flash to install OS2008 Feb 20 12:14:03 no idea :/ I haven't used it at all or bothered updating it. Feb 20 12:14:45 zic, uninstall it Feb 20 12:14:53 and then install it again Feb 20 12:14:57 that fixes it Feb 20 12:15:57 Tama^2: hmm, I will uninstall it and … that's all, in fact, N800 has no GPS integrated, I don't know why I've mapper alway installed :} Feb 20 12:16:09 thanks :} Feb 20 12:19:03 "Map" not "mapper" Feb 20 12:19:56 yes, confusion, sorry Feb 20 12:21:57 good morning Feb 20 12:23:41 mornin' Feb 20 12:24:54 got sdhc cards in mine, no notable extra battery drain noted so far Feb 20 12:28:28 MangoFusion: which size? and how many? Feb 20 12:28:39 currently got 2x4gb class 4 Feb 20 12:28:47 can you tell me the brand? Feb 20 12:28:52 please Feb 20 12:28:53 :) Feb 20 12:29:16 before i had 1x1gb (microsd) and 1x512mb (sd) Feb 20 12:29:42 and that ran all day in idle mode Feb 20 12:30:09 you mean only one day? from charge to discharge? Feb 20 12:30:14 can't really gauge the sdhc fully yet, only had it in for a few days Feb 20 12:31:04 well it probably lasted a bit longer, i didn't do any strict testing Feb 20 12:31:13 depends what is turned on, etc Feb 20 12:32:01 with 2x sdcards it lasts 25 hours in idle mode (for me) Feb 20 12:32:23 same condition without sdcards > 5 days Feb 20 12:32:27 i'll have to time it next time Feb 20 12:32:30 way more Feb 20 12:33:01 personally i don't mind as long as its > 1 day Feb 20 12:33:11 do you have wifi on too? Feb 20 12:34:06 no, no applets, no apps, no metalayer crawler, offline more and sdcards umounted Feb 20 12:35:20 still lasts only 25 hours Feb 20 12:37:52 johnx: bme? kernel module? Feb 20 12:38:08 bme isn't a kernel module Feb 20 12:38:36 in any case, i'll have a check myself once my device has charged up Feb 20 12:39:08 please le me know if you have time and are willing to run some tests Feb 20 12:39:31 johnx: a ha 'Battery Management Entity' Feb 20 12:39:39 bme is a daemon-type closed-source program that seems to have some critical connection to battery charging and monitoring Feb 20 12:40:43 johnx: and without an initfs i wouldn't have it Feb 20 12:40:43 ? Feb 20 12:41:03 pretty sure it and dsme run from the initfs Feb 20 12:41:26 trickie, looking at your options for running a different Linux distro? :) Feb 20 12:41:41 well i been playing with mamona Feb 20 12:41:54 what i really want is to be able to run a recent linux-omap kernel Feb 20 12:42:10 get kprobes/systemtap working nice Feb 20 12:42:10 ah Feb 20 12:43:04 looks interesting, though for out of my depth :) Feb 20 12:43:32 yeah bit out of mine also... but trying :) Feb 20 12:43:44 it's the only way to learn :) Feb 20 12:43:59 i have a kernel with a hacked up version of kprobes now... but systemtap needs a newer gcc than we have in sratchbox Feb 20 12:44:07 * lcuk has been out of his depth since he got 810 Feb 20 12:44:15 so thats the main reason i been looking into mamona Feb 20 12:44:57 trickie, *shamess plug* you could also look at the debian tarball I put together, but it won't get you a new kernel Feb 20 12:45:27 you base that on the debian ARM port? Feb 20 12:45:48 yup, it's just a hacked up debian sid armel debootstrap Feb 20 12:47:48 cool, got a link anywhere? Feb 20 12:48:06 http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian Feb 20 12:48:28 I should actually update that...I think I chaged something recently... Feb 20 12:48:41 nope, I already updated it :) Feb 20 12:49:41 nice, ill check it out Feb 20 12:53:12 so i guess i could *try* to run a newer custom kernel... but id have to have enough battery left to reflash the old kernel back so i could charge my battery? Feb 20 12:53:19 kinda dangerous Feb 20 12:53:49 have you tried kexec? Feb 20 12:54:04 also, I'm really not sure about the charging situation Feb 20 12:54:46 nah i haven't tried kexec yet Feb 20 12:54:50 next on the list Feb 20 12:55:19 I should say *as I understand things* bme is important to battery charging Feb 20 12:55:50 there was some discussion about bme on the maemo developers list a while ago, that was written by people with more of a clue than myself :) Feb 20 12:55:59 ok, ill have a dig around... im sure others have tried a stock linux-omap kernel Feb 20 12:56:10 sometimes I don't know Feb 20 12:56:13 pff, understanding things is overrated Feb 20 13:07:42 i guess id be without wireless also Feb 20 13:08:26 part of the wireless driver is closed and part open Feb 20 13:09:01 I haven't looked at the source yet to see if the open part is actually an interface for the closed part Feb 20 13:09:29 how i can get right click with n800? Feb 20 13:09:43 tap and hold Feb 20 13:10:19 cool thx Feb 20 13:11:54 is there a software hack to disable (and re-enable) the keyboard backlight on the 810? Feb 20 13:27:55 My N810's internal card has got corrupted. Trying to use it as an SD card reader over USB *always* gives in use. Feb 20 13:28:13 could be a lie. did you try removing the battery and rebooting? Feb 20 13:29:42 anyone here boot from internal mmc? i'm wondering if it would be a good idea to enable the swap as well... Feb 20 13:31:07 fysa: tried rebooting, lsof says nothing using it. Feb 20 13:31:12 * Jaffa 'll remove the battery as well Feb 20 13:33:53 That seemed to do it. Also ensured USB cable was attached on boot ;-) Feb 20 13:35:04 nice. the 'reboot' doesn't seem to always do that. Feb 20 13:36:47 MangoFusion: i assume if you have partioned your mmc to have a vfat partition you could use that partition to hold a swap file Feb 20 13:37:17 and still keep your ext2/3 partition to boot from Feb 20 13:38:22 yes that is the case Feb 20 13:38:49 should work ok i think Feb 20 13:39:34 anybody using pyhton and glade ? Feb 20 13:40:01 i was able to reparent a main window as a hildon one, but i cannot get_widget() a second window. Feb 20 13:40:12 just wondering how much of a performance (or life span) hit i'd get though with both the os and the swap being on the same card Feb 20 13:42:28 MangoFusion: well you will definately lessen the lifespan Feb 20 13:42:42 that much i have figured already Feb 20 13:43:07 it's pretty hard to give you numbers Feb 20 13:43:08 melmoth: another window that exists in the .glade ‽ Feb 20 13:43:09 :) Feb 20 13:43:39 i'm perfectly happy having no swap of course, just wondering about my options here ;) Feb 20 13:43:40 the case where you're trying to load a program from sd and it causes swapping will not be fun Feb 20 13:43:48 Tak yep, it exist in glade. Feb 20 13:44:03 but get_widget return None Feb 20 13:44:34 then something's wrong - you checked that you didn't typo the name, etc? Feb 20 13:45:12 yep . Feb 20 13:45:34 i was wondering if this may be due to the fact that i had to reparent the main window. Feb 20 13:45:44 but the problem is even before i destroy the main window Feb 20 13:47:50 can you boot from the external card on a n800? Feb 20 13:52:24 yup Feb 20 13:52:40 I guess it depends on what you mean by "boot" Feb 20 13:52:52 Tak: the python is http://sd-2175.dedibox.fr/sayhoo-0.0/src/sayhoo Feb 20 13:53:00 the glade is http://sd-2175.dedibox.fr/sayhoo-0.0/data/sayhoo.glade Feb 20 13:53:03 you get control after initfs has already run and dsme and bme are started Feb 20 13:53:13 yeah Feb 20 13:53:21 rootfs Feb 20 13:53:52 if you use fanoush's modified initfs booting from ext sd is easy Feb 20 13:54:13 booting from (for example) nfs over wifi or usb-net is harder but possible Feb 20 13:54:41 ok, ta Feb 20 13:55:28 melmoth: can you access changeDestWindow even if you don't reparent the main window? (e.g. in a tiny sample) Feb 20 13:59:20 Tak: nope, if i comment out the reparent (and the self.glade_xml.get_widget("mainWindow").destroy() ) , i still got the same behaviour Feb 20 13:59:32 this is strange, i m sure i had this working on regular glade stuff once. Feb 20 14:01:00 I suspect libglade only supports one main window Feb 20 14:02:13 grumble. I do not know how to create a child window within the glade gui Feb 20 14:03:22 dialog box? Feb 20 14:04:10 i m trying that, but it also appears at the same level in the xml tree than the mainwindow itself Feb 20 14:05:09 indeed, got the same behaviour. Feb 20 14:05:57 Problem must be somewhere else, or nobody could have ported glade application that use several windows. Feb 20 14:08:26 do you know of another pyglade maemo app that uses multiple windows? Feb 20 14:09:18 Tak: just make more main windows in glade Feb 20 14:09:25 shouldn't be a problem Feb 20 14:09:48 yet, it doesnt work (tm) :-) Feb 20 14:10:23 i do not know of other such application on top of my head though Feb 20 14:10:24 ok, sorry, i haven't followed the entire discussion Feb 20 14:10:26 mmm, I love shouldn't Feb 20 14:10:35 * truls loves chocolate Feb 20 14:11:04 truls: truls http://sd-2175.dedibox.fr/sayhoo-0.0/src/sayhoo Feb 20 14:11:29 self.glade_xml.get_widget("changeDestWindow") returns None Feb 20 14:11:44 and changeDestWindow exists in http://sd-2175.dedibox.fr/sayhoo-0.0/data/sayhoo.glade Feb 20 14:12:51 truls: now why did you have to go and mention chocolate? Feb 20 14:13:45 melmoth: self.glade_xml=gtk.glade.XML(gladefile,"mainWindow") Feb 20 14:13:49 * Solarion cleans up the drool Feb 20 14:13:55 melmoth: change this and get another one for the other window Feb 20 14:14:06 not sure if it'll work, but worht a shot Feb 20 14:14:10 ahh Feb 20 14:14:35 <|tbb|> heya tak, have u get my msg Feb 20 14:14:42 multiple windows in the same glade file work ... Feb 20 14:14:54 |tbb|: yeah, I just thought it was last night ;-) Feb 20 14:15:07 truls: ohh, good point Feb 20 14:15:36 <|tbb|> johnx, do u listen to music using a2dp through mplayer on your tablet? Feb 20 14:16:45 Victorrry ! Feb 20 14:16:50 yay Feb 20 14:16:52 truls: thank you so very much :) Feb 20 14:16:55 np Feb 20 14:17:01 chocolate saves the day once more Feb 20 14:17:16 * Solarion gets the napkin again Feb 20 14:21:25 Where to start if I want to talk with bluetooth device? Feb 20 14:22:34 http://lightblue.sourceforge.net/ perhaps? Feb 20 14:22:57 |tbb|, not that often, honestly Feb 20 14:23:03 (assuming you are using python, hehe) Feb 20 14:23:52 X-Chat is available for OS2007, what happen with OS2008 ? For the moment, I'm blocked with Pidgin for IRC :s Feb 20 14:24:03 I take a look in maemo-hacker repository Feb 20 14:24:08 could recompile it in scratchbox, no? Feb 20 14:24:19 it seems X-Chat is only available on OS2007 Feb 20 14:24:36 it's available. Feb 20 14:24:43 MangoFusion: Yes, I can, but if package are available, why ? ;) Feb 20 14:24:47 http://www.google.com/search?q=x-chat+chinook&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Feb 20 14:24:50 haha yes Feb 20 14:25:06 Zic, google for xchat chinook Feb 20 14:25:06 I use it all the time.. Feb 20 14:25:21 Zic: I use xchat f/2008 Feb 20 14:25:21 chinook = OS2008 Feb 20 14:25:30 right now, in fact, this very session is being shared with xchat on my N800. Feb 20 14:25:44 anyone have the source for the xchat chinook package? Feb 20 14:25:58 yes, I know, but the olny thing I've found is a beta .deb http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/ Feb 20 14:26:07 Do you use it ? Feb 20 14:26:13 it works fine. Feb 20 14:26:14 s/it/this/ ? Feb 20 14:26:18 ok, thanks for info ;) Feb 20 14:26:58 that it's been "beta" and our only option this long is a testament ;) Feb 20 14:27:11 it's fine ^^ Feb 20 14:29:36 <_collin1> will there be a Maemo CeBIT thingy? Feb 20 14:29:48 <|tbb|> could it be possible that the mplayer port for n8x00 doesnt support keyshortcuts like 0-9 for volume control or do i have to start mplayer with extra parameter Feb 20 14:30:37 <|tbb|> s/n8x00/n8x0 (before speculation beginns)/ Feb 20 14:30:38 |tbb| meant: could it be possible that the mplayer port for n8x0 (before speculation beginns) doesnt support keyshortcuts like 0-9 for volume control or do i have to start mplayer with extra parameter Feb 20 14:31:25 what is the difference between to say : « OS200* » and « ITOS200* » ? I use the first one all the time, but it seems IT one is more used, there is a difference ? Feb 20 14:31:36 you should be able to define shortcuts in ~/.mplayer/config Feb 20 14:31:48 it supports some, at least, because that's what the hardware keys are. Feb 20 14:32:02 you can bring up the menu to adjust the volume.. Feb 20 14:32:35 but my problem is that I sometimes want volume at 200-250 ('surround sound' movie) to hear the dialogue properly. Feb 20 14:32:48 and the OSD only lets you adjust up to 100.. Feb 20 14:33:23 <|tbb|> :/ Feb 20 14:33:43 so my solution was to modify ~/mplayer/.config and set vol:200 there Feb 20 14:34:10 and then the OSD lets you adjust volume *down* in steps .. 195, 190, etc. but as soon as you try to push it back up, it gets reset to 100. Feb 20 14:34:54 what do you need extra shortcuts for? Feb 20 14:39:43 <|tbb|> skipping songs Feb 20 14:41:27 <|tbb|> could you cat me your mplayer config file into privmsg Feb 20 14:41:59 let's see if my device is awake ;) Feb 20 14:43:00 MangoFusion: thanks Feb 20 14:44:03 http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/56747/ Feb 20 14:44:11 pastebin is down, put it there instead. Feb 20 14:44:42 do you guys know scribd ? Feb 20 14:45:08 these settings play 2-CD XVID/DIVX DVD rips at the standard 1Mbps with little issue. Feb 20 14:45:25 I rip a DVD just as if I were ripping to play on a regular SD TV. Feb 20 14:50:21 * lcuk2 stretches out Feb 20 14:50:35 the keys on this apple wireless keyboard feel massive Feb 20 14:50:59 the new one? Feb 20 14:51:04 yer Feb 20 14:51:05 is that the new one? Feb 20 14:51:16 the laptop styled thin one Feb 20 14:51:18 I know, isn't it lovely? Feb 20 14:51:24 i contemplated getting that, but it seemed a bit too big Feb 20 14:51:25 <|tbb|> hmmh fysa: it hadnt change anything on my volume Feb 20 14:51:30 each key though is big and its really easy and comfortable to type on Feb 20 14:51:33 (for tablet use) Feb 20 14:51:34 typing with mine as we speak.. Feb 20 14:51:58 fysa, are you in the uk by any chance Feb 20 14:52:05 http://www.sfbags.com/products/keyboardcases/keyboard.htm Feb 20 14:52:24 http://www.sfbags.com/products/keyboardcases/images/KB-Travel-Fit1-lg.jpg Feb 20 14:52:26 thinking of getting this. Feb 20 14:52:43 sorry, in the US Feb 20 14:53:01 * Tobotras have found maemo connectivity guide, that should be it Feb 20 14:53:09 i got this so i could type in bed - ive got 810 so on the road i am sorted Feb 20 14:53:21 ah neat Feb 20 14:53:26 I gave away the IBM M-clicky that I've been using for 10 years, because this Apple wireless keyboard is finally 'good enough' Feb 20 14:53:49 .. just a matter of training myself to not need a 10-key. :) Feb 20 14:53:49 ahhh damn, i think apple only have one leyboard layout, cos my quote key is in the wrong place Feb 20 14:54:16 apple keyboards can have pretty odd key layouts Feb 20 14:54:18 the only problem I have with this keyboard so far is the CAPS LOCK delay. Feb 20 14:54:26 I map CAPS LOCK to CTRL.. Feb 20 14:54:33 ive never wanted a wireless board after bad experiences with the first gen type boards (and mice as well) Feb 20 14:54:54 and the delay kind of screws with editting and copying/pasting from time to time. Feb 20 14:55:19 what do you mean DELAY it just works? Feb 20 14:55:19 I think it's worth adjusting to this small keyboard though to not have to suffer withdrawls while away from the desk.. Feb 20 14:55:27 tap the CAPS LOCK quickly once Feb 20 14:55:30 it won't turn on. Feb 20 14:55:51 there's a .25 second delay or something. Feb 20 14:55:55 oh crap its not quick is itsdfsdfsdfSDSDFSDF Feb 20 14:56:00 that you have to hold it down for.. Feb 20 14:56:08 as a 'protection' scheme from accidentally tripping it. Feb 20 14:56:23 haha Feb 20 14:56:40 it doesnt have the delay always its inconsistent which is worse Feb 20 14:56:51 it's hardwired into the electronics of the keyboard itself.. Feb 20 14:57:02 there is some other key with a similar delay, maybe eject. Feb 20 14:57:10 DOES THE LIGHT ON IT COME ON? Feb 20 14:57:15 oh poo Feb 20 14:57:22 not for me in Windows anyway.. Feb 20 14:57:26 oooooooor is that just a random dot Feb 20 14:57:32 :O wtf Feb 20 14:57:35 can't remember in OS X. Feb 20 14:57:45 that could be triggered by the OS. Feb 20 14:57:50 lol helps if i look at my 810 screen instead of my desktop session Feb 20 14:58:05 * lcuk closes this one Feb 20 14:58:16 sort of like how the old crappy Logitech keyboards had the CAPS LOCK/NUM LOCK light on the receiver instead of the keyboard.. Feb 20 14:58:28 because they could never be sure what state the keyboard was actually in at the keyboard itself, due to packet loss. Feb 20 14:58:32 save on battery power - undeeeeeerstandable really Feb 20 14:58:51 ok, wtf is this phantom long keystroke Feb 20 14:59:12 i wonder if it only occurs when something else is happening Feb 20 14:59:24 try turning off prediction? Feb 20 14:59:25 cos my typing hasnt suddenly got that bad Feb 20 14:59:54 undeeeeeerstandabbbbbbbble is predicted? Feb 20 15:00:00 hahaha Feb 20 15:00:08 maybe it's looking up prediction and interrupting something. Feb 20 15:00:16 :3 Feb 20 15:00:19 trying to think of other activity that would be going on while typing. ;) Feb 20 15:00:32 You probably inputted it some time ago and it remembered it. Feb 20 15:00:35 there wouldn't be prediction here.. Feb 20 15:00:39 maybe when the device is scrolling something on screen it locks up because im not holding keys for that long Feb 20 15:00:54 maybe they are bringing out a new model and thus the keyboard is programmed to go apeshit beforehand Feb 20 15:00:54 I believe it's related to the lagged input. Feb 20 15:00:56 ;) Feb 20 15:01:05 its never tried to second guess me before so i dont think its prediction Feb 20 15:01:13 it feels like the bluetooth receiver is flipping on/off as some sort of power saving measure.. Feb 20 15:01:38 yes and when the computer changes gear it gets a stutter Feb 20 15:01:39 like polling more slowly than it should be Feb 20 15:02:18 how far away should bluetooth work, i quite like the idea of continuing to code whilst im afs Feb 20 15:02:58 blind coding? Feb 20 15:03:11 on another topic, has there been any nokia news regarding flash 51.3 ? Feb 20 15:03:34 yer mango, ilook at the screen so infrequently anyway and know when i have made a mistake Feb 20 15:03:44 I think the general conclusion is that it's just to fix the power on/off "enigma" Feb 20 15:03:52 * lcuk2 has an internal text buffer Feb 20 15:03:58 I've plugged my device into a wall in a corner of the room with a 24pt font 30 feet away, and taken notes on it from the conference table.. Feb 20 15:04:29 interesting idea Feb 20 15:04:29 some people wonder why you just didnt take it with you ;) Feb 20 15:04:57 battery was dying after taking notes all day.. Feb 20 15:05:03 and no plug near me.. Feb 20 15:05:39 * johnx sits where the outlets are :) Feb 20 15:06:05 * mwaldron has a 2xAA Energi-To-Go Feb 20 15:06:12 there's a problem with https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/jhbuild_modules/maemo.modules because the inclusion of the gnome-2.22 from cvs no longer works Feb 20 15:06:24 it was very slick, apart from the setting it in the corner ;) Feb 20 15:06:24 pity you can't hook up a hamster on a wheel to it Feb 20 15:06:27 ;) Feb 20 15:06:37 Forget hamsters Feb 20 15:06:44 hook up a potato to it Feb 20 15:06:45 sending the agenda/notes file to everyone via bluetooth at the end of the day was cake Feb 20 15:06:57 haha great idea Feb 20 15:06:57 reminds me of the crank charger for the OLPC and then the one for the DS... Feb 20 15:07:17 i need to test my solar charger on the 810. see if i can anty up the current Feb 20 15:07:24 foot pedal charger would seem more practical - like the old singer sewing machines my gran had Feb 20 15:07:29 haha Feb 20 15:07:51 or a cycling machine charger Feb 20 15:08:04 you have to continue cycling over 15mph to play games Feb 20 15:08:07 get fit and power your device at the same time! Feb 20 15:08:12 keyboard charger for the n810 Feb 20 15:08:16 everybody wins! Feb 20 15:08:18 MangoFusion, good idea! Feb 20 15:08:33 THAT is now you get kids in the US to get into shape Feb 20 15:08:38 its a great idea to be honest and would help to save the planet in multiple ways Feb 20 15:09:00 Force kids to exercise to power their games. Feb 20 15:09:28 heh...force them to exercise to power *my* games Feb 20 15:09:29 tho some kids will try it with their actual bikes and be playing ps3 whilst riding down the street with a monitor strapped to handlebars Feb 20 15:09:51 johnx, illegal! Feb 20 15:09:55 * Navi whips johnx Feb 20 15:10:02 curses, foiled again! Feb 20 15:10:13 if it wasn't for you meddling kids and that dog! Feb 20 15:10:48 the only real winners in a scooby doo episode are the fancy dress shops Feb 20 15:11:30 you'd need a beowulf cluster of kids on bikes to power a ps3 Feb 20 15:11:46 but at least they wouldnt be fat Feb 20 15:11:46 don't they come with an internal fusion reactor? Feb 20 15:12:05 well, then we need to fix their *diet*...but otherwise... Feb 20 15:12:11 we got ourselves a convoy - the lead bike gets to play whilst the others power it Feb 20 15:12:31 set it up like a flock of birds, maybe Feb 20 15:12:40 i eat chocolate and chips and fry ups and stuff and im not fat - its not entirely diet Feb 20 15:12:55 quantity matters Feb 20 15:13:01 yes Feb 20 15:13:09 and diet *can't* be ignored like it's not part of the problem Feb 20 15:13:21 just like alternative energy Feb 20 15:13:30 there is no *one size fits all* answer Feb 20 15:13:38 not at all, hey you could make some kind of electrolising drink which when they pee into a bottle will power devices Feb 20 15:13:48 O_o Feb 20 15:14:04 try taking that through customs Feb 20 15:14:18 as long as it's less than 4oz ... Feb 20 15:14:23 let's just replace the plastic and aluminum cases for our devices with super sponge material Feb 20 15:14:28 then we can just drop them into the toilet for a recharge Feb 20 15:14:45 I really do like the crank idea Feb 20 15:14:51 you can attach *anything* to it Feb 20 15:14:55 sod that fysa, just give computers an open top and keep then in the bathroom itself Feb 20 15:15:07 some type of twisting force goes in one end and 5v comes out the other... Feb 20 15:15:40 I believe someone makes a crank charger for AAs Feb 20 15:15:48 they make one for the DS Feb 20 15:15:54 the crank charger is great, but impractical when you need your hands - the first gen olpc had ideas for numerous charging methods and the foot pedal was one of them Feb 20 15:15:56 just need a plug adapter Feb 20 15:15:58 you could use that with AAs and the external battery packs.. Feb 20 15:16:43 i saw some thing about a chargerrrrrr which attaches to leg and uses the movement of your knee Feb 20 15:16:54 * lcuk2 deletes the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrs Feb 20 15:17:07 http://geektechnique.org/index.php?id=236 Feb 20 15:17:09 there we go Feb 20 15:17:53 or this: http://www.engadget.com/2005/02/21/hand-crank-charger-for-the-nintendo-ds/ Feb 20 15:18:05 my N800 adapter is 5v Feb 20 15:18:13 now you're getting it :) Feb 20 15:18:14 get 2 then Feb 20 15:18:15 I can imagine that it would handle 6v fine.. Feb 20 15:18:45 you know, i dont know why i come here, you lot are just a bunch of cranks Feb 20 15:18:53 :D Feb 20 15:18:58 :P Feb 20 15:19:00 haha Feb 20 15:19:01 woohoo! it gathered enough power to boot my ipod! Feb 20 15:19:01 (this happened after appr. 30 minutes of cranking and several attempts of my ipod to boot in between but not succeeding in that) Feb 20 15:19:11 wow Feb 20 15:19:14 hahaha Feb 20 15:19:18 just wow Feb 20 15:19:27 modern man would use that energy to walk to the shop Feb 20 15:19:33 ...then it seemed it found it’s way, cause I could stop cranking and it kept charging (there are batteries in the flashlight, so those are discharging)... it kept charging for appr. 5 minutes and then this animated charge-icon became static Feb 20 15:19:40 maybe better off attaching it to a bicycle wheel Feb 20 15:20:28 ah Feb 20 15:20:31 the iPod wall charger is 12v Feb 20 15:20:39 one of my friends ran household electric from a massive weight hanging from the stairs - every couple of days he would wind it back up and let it unwind charging a couple of car batteries Feb 20 15:20:57 hahahaha Feb 20 15:21:01 that is great. Feb 20 15:21:41 it worked really well - obviously not upto powering the boiler or electric cooker, but enough for the low uses Feb 20 15:24:09 right, i think i need to do some testing with sdl/gtk. ive found a nice IDE for windows which does what i want and can build projects nicely. i just need to build a script to copy it over after saving Feb 20 15:24:21 'night all Feb 20 15:24:23 * johnx sleeps Feb 20 15:24:33 then run make and then finally copy and execute on the 810 Feb 20 15:24:38 nite johnx Feb 20 15:25:04 * lcuk2 would prefer to skip the vmware @make@ stage Feb 20 15:26:46 ive heard that gcc and the autotools and the sdk can be put directly onto the 8x0, anyone have any instructions or guides knocking around? Feb 20 15:27:03 >_> Feb 20 15:27:38 * lcuk2 wont try to recompile the kernel but it should be quick enough for small projects Feb 20 15:28:06 should just be a matter of having the correct sources. Feb 20 15:28:11 repos Feb 20 15:28:21 there is a scratchbox repo that mounts loopback or some such Feb 20 15:28:52 if you were to get that working with the on-device sources.list/apt, I believe that would take you a long way. Feb 20 15:29:09 but i dont want scratchbox because i am compiling natively ? Feb 20 15:29:28 deb file:/home/jfisher/maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_4.0 chinook explicit Feb 20 15:29:35 i thought scratch was just a wrapper arltiple targets Feb 20 15:29:37 correct, you don't want scratchbox, but you want gcc and such Feb 20 15:29:47 I think that SDK repo file has those? Feb 20 15:30:13 yer i do. thanks ill look now. oh hang on, you linked to a local file... Feb 20 15:30:28 right. Feb 20 15:30:32 when you install scratchbox, it creates a local repo Feb 20 15:30:43 I'm thinking that's where some of the dependencies for building are going to be.. Feb 20 15:30:53 but I could be wrong. :) Feb 20 15:30:56 so i have to install scratchbox on my 810? Feb 20 15:31:10 no, I would install scratchbox somewhere else -- or look in your vmware /etc/apt/sources.list Feb 20 15:31:18 it should have the same file:// Feb 20 15:31:28 copy that to your 810, add to your sources, then apt-get update Feb 20 15:31:47 diff user name, but yer i think ill find it - either that or ill just try and grab the stuff from nokia. Feb 20 15:32:31 i hope this works because then for the majority of things i can bypass vmware Feb 20 15:32:48 code and dev wherever and run as required on device Feb 20 15:34:42 hey guys I can't really follow your conversation, but please check your ideas again before installing stuff like that to the n810 Feb 20 15:36:30 kaltsi > i ve try it in the past on n800 on os2007 ... but compiling was a pain as memory (with swap) wasn't enought for large projects Feb 20 15:36:35 looking through the repo now.. Feb 20 15:37:00 you could attach a usb mass storage and use that as swap :) Feb 20 15:37:04 lots of osso* stuff there, but only a dozen or so -dev packages. Feb 20 15:37:28 Khertan_Work: I can imagine :) Feb 20 15:37:30 the new 32GB SDHCs are supposed to be 22-25MB/sec, that would be a nice improvement. Feb 20 15:37:43 for N800 owners ;) Feb 20 15:44:10 jumpula > yes but you need to set the swap by hand as interface allow you only to set 128 Mo and less. Feb 20 15:46:13 USB -> IDE -> SDRAM/DDR adapter. ;) Feb 20 15:49:34 hehe Feb 20 16:28:25 Are treeview searcheable in maemo ? Feb 20 16:35:56 my /home/user/.browser file is a long string of whatever (namely: ^@^@^@^@^ etc.) Feb 20 16:36:05 is there anything that can be done with that? Feb 20 16:42:10 suitch: I suspect that in reality these are zero-bytes. Feb 20 16:42:22 suitch: it is your file-viewer that shows them as "^@" Feb 20 16:42:28 vi and nano Feb 20 16:42:34 yeah. Zero-Bytes. Feb 20 16:42:38 it's supposed to be a configuration file Feb 20 16:42:49 and i'd like to edit it Feb 20 16:43:08 suitch: seems something bad happened to it. Feb 20 16:43:52 then why doesn't it have the usual things in it? Feb 20 16:44:00 as regular text? Feb 20 16:44:09 and how do you edit something like that? Feb 20 16:44:43 is this os2006 or 2007? Feb 20 16:44:51 2006 Feb 20 16:47:27 2006 had a bug in the wifi driver that occasionally wrote zero-bytes to random places on the flash Feb 20 16:48:23 i have the bugfix since right after reflashing Feb 20 16:48:34 not to mention I haven't used wifi yet on this rootfs Feb 20 16:51:01 also anything i write at the end of this file disappears after running the browser Feb 20 18:03:30 Hi Feb 20 18:03:38 Hi Feb 20 18:04:20 hi Feb 20 18:06:20 hello, any speak spanish help me? Feb 20 18:17:45 How's the N8X0 situation on calculators? Feb 20 18:19:00 http://www.motionnet.com/calculator/ there Feb 20 18:19:25 ;) Feb 20 18:19:36 Heh Feb 20 18:20:35 hmm, nobody helped tripolo... Feb 20 18:20:49 I don't speak spanish Feb 20 18:21:05 hmmf. I think the N810 uses the wireless interface for sip connections no matter if there's a more direct way to the sip server. Feb 20 18:21:33 (and yes, there is: the openvpn tunnel) Feb 20 18:23:34 ..and for the upnp browsing too. nuts. Feb 20 18:25:11 I recall there being a script to hildonize glade apps Feb 20 18:29:42 Nevermind Feb 20 18:33:47 Navi: really? any pointer? Feb 20 18:34:22 Actually, there was, but I couldn't find it. My question was going to be if anyone knew where to find it Feb 20 18:34:27 but I decided to do it myself Feb 20 18:34:30 I've always done it manually Feb 20 18:35:55 I have two gtk+ apps to hildonize, are there good references about that job? Feb 20 18:36:16 (or google will tell me I presume) Feb 20 18:36:30 references about what aspect of hildonizing? Feb 20 18:36:57 the maemo wiki has references Feb 20 18:38:51 "dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/libvalagame.so.0" Feb 20 18:38:51 Tak: technical stuff, examples, docs, pointers, even theoretical things Feb 20 18:39:08 What would be the most appropriate gtk widget to display a counter ? (label, textinput ?) Feb 20 18:39:13 "$ dpkg -S /usr/lib/libvalagame.so.0 Feb 20 18:39:13 valagame: /usr/lib/libvalagame.so.0" Feb 20 18:39:19 * Tak scratch head Feb 20 18:39:29 I'll ask maemo ;) Feb 20 18:39:52 melmoth: changeable? Feb 20 18:39:56 hello all Feb 20 18:40:08 not changeable by the uer Feb 20 18:40:15 it ll be a time counter Feb 20 18:40:16 I'd say a label Feb 20 18:40:28 ok. thanks. Feb 20 18:40:40 wwp: probably the maemo tutorial Feb 20 18:42:31 sure Feb 20 18:42:32 thanks Feb 20 18:42:44 Glade support would be nice :/ Feb 20 18:43:14 yeah, it would save having to hackishly manually hildonize everything Feb 20 18:43:32 Yeh Feb 20 18:44:04 Sucks that glade is so common nowadays Feb 20 18:44:11 along with pygtk Feb 20 18:44:18 glade is fantastic Feb 20 18:44:39 hrmf. Feb 20 18:44:53 I have VB flashbacks. Feb 20 18:45:41 got openvpn to work, but seems that the things I wanted to use it for doesn't want to use the tunnel. Feb 20 18:46:01 I don't see any reason to write 2000 lines of code just to layout a GUI Feb 20 18:46:14 now python, otoh, I'll agree with you about ;-) Feb 20 18:46:49 gah Feb 20 18:47:39 ui.c:25:35: hildon/hildon-program.h: No such file or directory <- weak Feb 20 18:48:14 apple2: hey Feb 20 18:49:33 What package is that package in, and is that the right location? Feb 20 18:49:45 s/package in/header in/ Feb 20 18:49:45 Navi meant: What package is that header in, and is that the right location? Feb 20 18:49:59 So let's get a party going (let's get a party going) Feb 20 18:50:01 Now it's time to party and we'll party hard (party hard) Feb 20 18:54:45 * Tak sighs Feb 20 18:55:13 Navi: pkg-config --cflags hildon-1 Feb 20 18:55:31 :P Feb 20 19:06:36 So let's get a party going (let's get a party going) Feb 20 19:06:36 Now it's time to party and we'll party hard (party hard) Feb 20 19:07:15 (yuaaaaaaaaaa!!!) Feb 20 19:07:17 soulja boy tell em Feb 20 19:07:19 ayy i got this new dance fo yall called tha Soulja Boy Feb 20 19:07:22 ... Feb 20 19:12:00 we can haz ops? Feb 20 19:12:23 I wish... Feb 20 19:13:25 yeah ops plz Feb 20 19:13:41 i'll post more soulja boy Feb 20 19:14:21 -_- Feb 20 19:21:05 is that a no? Feb 20 19:21:26 whast maemo btw? Feb 20 19:22:29 maemo is a porn site dedicated to open porn. Feb 20 19:22:48 nice Feb 20 19:22:57 u guys liek scat? Feb 20 19:23:34 hm strange. I have a gtk_tree_view (editable) that is not editable when running in maemo Feb 20 19:23:56 I can set/get text programmatically, set focus and select text, but no way to edit Feb 20 19:24:05 treeview is "different" in several ways, IIRC Feb 20 19:24:13 oh. Feb 20 19:24:16 sorry! Feb 20 19:24:19 gtk_text_view Feb 20 19:25:11 urf. Feb 20 19:27:23 why oh why does the rtcomm/voip stuff use the wireless interface ip address (or the connection ip address, I guess) when sending on the network? the network stack should be able to handle it quite nicely in itself. Feb 20 19:27:42 Can't see any other explanation for what I see, than that's what it does. Feb 20 19:32:24 dc Feb 20 19:33:27 I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who uses bc/dc Feb 20 19:34:21 how much memory should maemo-mapper need? i'm having hard time using it because its virtual size exceeds 100MB after some panning and zooming Feb 20 19:45:49 Is there a full-screen clock / timer? Feb 20 19:46:17 I'd kinda think that the clock ought to have that built-in, but apparently not. Feb 20 19:51:39 hi Feb 20 20:00:53 johnx: hey Feb 20 20:51:14 Hey! Anyone interested in a kick ass theme? Feb 20 20:51:27 * konttori needs some sanity testing before launching the theme Feb 20 20:51:37 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/3419/NuvoPearl-1.2_all.deb Feb 20 20:52:09 Also, theme maker is now fully working and would appreciate any testers for that as well. Feb 20 20:52:10 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/3418/ThemeMaker1.1.2.zip Feb 20 20:52:42 But please, if anyone is interested in a nice theme, that nuvopearl is actually much nicer than its previour incarnations! Feb 20 20:53:22 will do Feb 20 20:53:36 Truth be told, OS2008 is the only ITOS release where I've been happy with the bundled themes. Feb 20 20:54:12 konttori: screenshots? Feb 20 20:56:24 A sec. Feb 20 20:57:34 well, a few secs. Will have to install the load applet Feb 20 20:58:19 x11vnc! Feb 20 20:58:30 pupnik_, or anyone working on graphics, do you know if its possible to change from sending 800*480 data into lower 400*240 in the next frame? - i have an idea i'm thinking about Feb 20 20:58:36 Looks pretty good, couple things seems to be off by a pixel or two here and there. Feb 20 20:59:40 lcuk_2: i don't understand the question. Do you refer to Xsp pixel doubling? Feb 20 21:01:09 yes, if i had memory space for a 840*480 surface and was using that, then at a specified trigger i half the resolution and continue rendering at that using pixel doubling would it be a smooth transition - 1 frame hires, next frame low res. or would it be a judder screen change Feb 20 21:01:24 Ahh... screenshots now taken. Feb 20 21:03:51 hmm... blog or garage??? Garage for now. Feb 20 21:05:02 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/3420/screenshot01.png Feb 20 21:05:09 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/3421/screenshot02.png Feb 20 21:05:15 There you go! Feb 20 21:05:45 GeneralAntilles: I have to agree with you in there. The default themes (well, one of them) were pretty good. Feb 20 21:05:53 wee. made it. phone calls with sip over an openvpn tunnel to my home network where my connected asterisk is... Feb 20 21:06:04 I use whatever the simplest theme is Feb 20 21:06:09 I'd like an even simpler theme Feb 20 21:06:24 But, with theme maker, it is now relatively easy to make whatever makes you tick. Feb 20 21:06:36 Felicia Feb 20 21:07:13 lemme see... Feb 20 21:07:32 Somebody should put together a monochrome theme. Feb 20 21:07:32 * konttori cannot remember all the themes. Oh that one. I liked the default theme more. Feb 20 21:07:39 my thoughts exactly Feb 20 21:07:43 Echo > Felicia. Feb 20 21:07:44 who needs color anyway? Feb 20 21:07:52 * elb looks for Echo Feb 20 21:08:08 oh, the default theme? Feb 20 21:08:11 Felicia's got those weird rounded buttons. Feb 20 21:08:15 it was too ... swoopy for me Feb 20 21:08:32 Glasser would be OK if it weren't for the orange. Feb 20 21:08:47 many Applications really aren't happy with the black backgrounds, though Feb 20 21:08:53 Hey... Damn. this is going to the wrong direction ;) Someone, please, have a few min test go with the nuvopearl there! Feb 20 21:09:03 dammit! ;) Feb 20 21:09:19 hmmm switching to Echo didn't work, that's interesting Feb 20 21:09:25 Give it a second? Feb 20 21:09:48 I did? Feb 20 21:09:54 1 minute or more? Feb 20 21:10:03 switch around them - do others change? Feb 20 21:10:03 but the desktop and everything on it is just completely black? Feb 20 21:10:13 or is it just echo Feb 20 21:10:35 maybe this is normal, the apps seem to be OK Feb 20 21:10:56 a3 Feb 20 21:10:59 the "title bar" on the desktop is just ... blank Feb 20 21:11:30 I like the icon selection on the left better in Echo than Felicia Feb 20 21:12:27 konttori, edge on the statusbar at desktop needs smoother blending, border on the application menu needs to be nudged a pixel to the left, there's an artifact on the bottom right of the browser icon, the gutter around the minimize/close buttons and the bottom right of the application toolbar clashes with the gutter on scrollbar. Feb 20 21:12:31 I think that's about it. :D Feb 20 21:13:41 elb, should look like the shots here: legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/n800.html Feb 20 21:14:29 Also, konttori, I'd argue for inverting the gradient on the taskbar. Feb 20 21:14:41 GA: yeah. I'm quite aware of you you are saying. thanks! Feb 20 21:15:01 GeneralAntilles: yeah, that's it ... I guess last time I saw Echo, I just didn't have a completely black background Feb 20 21:15:03 GA: I wanted to make at least one theme that doesn't have black shaded taskbar Feb 20 21:15:15 Hehe Feb 20 21:15:17 Just for demonstration purposes on how they work Feb 20 21:15:28 and for testing the theme maker Feb 20 21:15:49 anyway, I'll make a completely inverse theme as well that I'll try to test out the 'full black' mode. Feb 20 21:16:17 A transparency-less theme might be worthwhile, too. Feb 20 21:16:21 (as in white text on black for everything) Feb 20 21:16:41 GA: yeah, OTOH, that would not be interesting for demonstration purposes Feb 20 21:17:18 But, I might make one of those as well. Now, I'd just like to get some of those people interested in making themes to take the TM for a ride. Feb 20 21:17:42 question: where does one get the windows ( yah, yah I know ) flasher? the maemo.org site links dont work Feb 20 21:17:47 GA: did you find the fonts too small on that theme? Feb 20 21:18:03 Hehe . . . my patience runs out putting together a statusbar applet icon. Might take a swing at that monochrome theme, though. . . . Feb 20 21:18:36 mono theme is easy to make. Taka any ready theme template and turn down the knob ;) Feb 20 21:18:53 Hopefully a little more hand-tweaked than that. :P Feb 20 21:19:26 Yeah! (just kidding earlier) Feb 20 21:21:49 heh. echo like hell: For test, I did a sip call from my n810 connected via my cell phone, over openvpn to my home asterisk and then out via my ip-telephony provider to PSTN and my fixed ISDN phone. Feb 20 21:23:46 thanks GA. Now I need to go to bed. Good night all! Feb 20 21:33:07 Veggen: damn geek! ;) Feb 20 21:34:13 maddler: btw, I needed to do some gconf hacking to get the telepathy sip to send out on my openvpn connection instead of my wlan interface. Feb 20 21:34:34 or so I think. maybe it was the full reboot I did afterwards, that did it. hmf. Feb 20 21:36:35 (gotta test that) Feb 20 21:36:47 has anyone had any luck with gcj on maemo? Feb 20 21:42:21 no, it's definitely the gconftool-hack. Was a setting that the connection manager wizard didn't expose. Feb 20 21:43:51 :) Feb 20 21:45:44 but the best part is that it's connection specific setting, so that you can set it differently for different accounts. Feb 20 21:49:53 Veggen: sounds pretty nice... :) Feb 20 21:54:10 (hmm. I think perhaps I need to start blogging again) Feb 20 22:04:34 Veggen: you should have been bloggin' about that alreadt! ;) Feb 20 22:04:38 off to bed... Feb 20 22:07:10 good evening everyone... i was wondering if it is possible to watch live video stream through my n800 ? i mean, there are plenty of television streams available, so the question is: can i watch them on the n800 ? Feb 20 22:08:28 cyberholic, sure, but it depends on the stream. Feb 20 22:09:22 general: i think most of the avail. streams are in windows media, asf or wmv. what do you think? is there a tool that can play that? i checked the garage, but couldnt find anything... Feb 20 22:21:44 mplayer . . . Feb 20 22:26:29 Paste the URL into GMPlayer Feb 20 22:26:53 is gmplayer the "mediaplayer" Feb 20 22:27:19 No . . . http://mplayer.garage.maemo.org/ Feb 20 22:29:38 Flashed the latest release, reinstalling apps Feb 20 22:29:51 ... Feb 20 22:29:52 GeneralAntilles: did you flash the update? Feb 20 22:29:58 Damned ambiguity. Feb 20 22:30:18 Nope Feb 20 22:30:40 The N800 with the boot issue is currently in the car, and I'm way too lazy to walk out and get it. Feb 20 22:30:43 general: does that mean that mplayer can also play asx files? Feb 20 22:31:07 If anything can, it would, but I've never tried, so I can't speak from experience. Feb 20 22:32:08 does maemo have binary compatability with vanilla debian? Feb 20 22:32:59 thanks a lot. i ll try it now.... Feb 20 22:33:15 hwy the N810 GPS is too slow? Feb 20 22:33:20 ARM EABI, yes. Feb 20 22:33:23 s/hwy/why Feb 20 22:34:38 has anyone written up a utility to serve up a scanned map (TIFF/GIF/PNG/JPG/etc) in little chunks so maemo-mapper can download it? Feb 20 22:44:42 ds3, it's not just chopping it up, it's also the coord system transformations and calibration Feb 20 22:45:50 I guess they're not necessary if you don't need correct coordinates Feb 20 22:46:14 I gotcher coordinates right HEEERE Feb 20 22:48:18 jku: I know - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Slippy_map_tilenames Feb 20 22:48:28 that I think describes the coordinate transformation Feb 20 22:48:38 was just looking for that link :) Feb 20 22:49:15 I am trying to put scanned USGS Topo's on the N800. first thought was to write a script that drops stuff in the v1 format but then I looked at it and decided that was a bad way (violates proper abstractions) Feb 20 22:50:08 so my current thought is to feed it in as a repo. if someone has the scripts/CGI/web server/etc to do it, there is no reason to duplicate the work otherwise, it should not be that hard to take a scanned USGS map with cross hairs already in place indicating calibration Feb 20 22:50:10 ds3, that transform is from gps coords to a Mercator projection... Feb 20 22:50:38 not sure what USGS uses? Feb 20 22:50:48 I think USGS has Lat/Long on there already Feb 20 22:51:06 biggest problem is I think most USGS maps are NAD27 but GPS wants WGS84 Feb 20 22:51:14 exactly Feb 20 22:52:08 but that is a linear transform; I should be able to prototype this by starting with a script that takes as input - name of TIFF, Lat/Long of upper left, Lat/Long of lower right and spit out peices Feb 20 22:52:19 once that works, there are tools to give me the equiv in WGS84 Feb 20 22:52:21 ah, ok Feb 20 22:52:46 a basic CGI script + apache should work but might be painfully slow Feb 20 22:53:06 but judging from the response, such a thing does not yet exist Feb 20 22:53:14 is anyone else interested in such a tool though? Feb 20 22:53:59 openstreetmap community might be a better source of info... Feb 20 22:55:21 unless I underestimated, it should easier to hack it up the script first Feb 20 22:56:05 Any microb devs awake? Feb 20 22:56:29 if no one here is interested in that stuff, I'll just shut up and do it Feb 20 22:57:15 Anybody tell me what font LCARS uses for the 802.11 and RX-34? Feb 20 22:57:57 I've got some browser benchmarks that might be interesting, unsure on who to contact. Feb 20 22:58:12 timeless, Pervila. Feb 20 22:58:26 thanks Feb 20 22:59:01 hrm. how much can a standard battery stand on n800 with "always online" (wifi enabled and connected, but screen off) Feb 20 22:59:04 ? Feb 20 22:59:22 Depends on what background stuff is running. Feb 20 22:59:30 But, I get about 2-3 days idle with wifi connected. Feb 20 22:59:42 i've kept a ping going to a wlan connected n810 for an insane amt of time - like 22+ hours Feb 20 22:59:43 timeless seems very asleep though. =) Feb 20 23:00:26 good enough - working with perhaps using n800 devices for home-hospital interaction :P Feb 20 23:01:41 ... Feb 20 23:01:43 hey Feb 20 23:03:52 Anyhow, I did a whole lot of browser benchmarks on the n95, n800 and the iphone. microb did pretty good. Though that somebody on the dev team might be interested. Feb 20 23:03:58 Stskeeps: I almost doubled that time using a bluetooth connection instead of wifi Feb 20 23:04:41 i seem to have been consistently getting 9 days (idle) 7 hours (in use) with my n800 Feb 20 23:04:46 Any news on a real snes emulator for maemo? Feb 20 23:04:48 with wifi on Feb 20 23:05:05 MangoFusion: but that's not always connected, I guess Feb 20 23:05:06 originally 10 days, haha Feb 20 23:05:19 its currently connected to google talk, that is about it Feb 20 23:05:32 mm, constantly? and it runs days? Feb 20 23:06:11 i did have it connected to skype in idle for a day or two, though didn't do any timing so couldn't really say anything conclusive Feb 20 23:06:20 wow Feb 20 23:06:23 buy me another n800 and i'll figure it out ;) Feb 20 23:06:33 using depleted uranium batteries? Feb 20 23:06:39 hahaha Feb 20 23:08:01 thinking about it, the battery life in general seems to be much better than my axim x50 (which tended to die quickly especially with wifi and co on), and miles better than my macbook Feb 20 23:08:49 and second question - does the N800 have a wakeup feature (ie, come out of standby/power off at this point of the day)? Feb 20 23:09:12 I wish the n800 had a snes emulator , snes is the best system in my opinion Feb 20 23:09:29 couldn't you compile zsnes in scratchbox maybe? =/ Feb 20 23:09:41 no zsnes is x86-only Feb 20 23:09:43 zsnes includes lots of x86 assembly IIRC Feb 20 23:09:43 Stskeeps, yeah there's an alarm API (and UI), but it seems to have some problems Feb 20 23:09:56 really? didn't know that Feb 20 23:10:04 snes9x Feb 20 23:10:05 Stskeeps, there's a bug open about alarms not firing Feb 20 23:10:07 dospod: have you google searched for maemo or nokia + snes? Feb 20 23:10:15 ok then compile in scratchbox after you rewrite everything in ARM Feb 20 23:10:18 ;) Feb 20 23:10:21 *or* Feb 20 23:10:37 run it over the net Feb 20 23:10:39 I doubt the N800 could do SNES without drivers for the PowerVR Feb 20 23:10:48 : ( Feb 20 23:10:52 I love snes Feb 20 23:11:08 Even the GP2X can't do it at full speed for every game. Feb 20 23:11:08 and nes is alright but xmaeme whatever is a horrible ui that cant launch roms to save its life Feb 20 23:11:36 I still don't get it: Was exactly was the problem with PowerVR (and all the other neat features)? Nokia N?? phones use it, right? Feb 20 23:11:52 s/Was/What/ Feb 20 23:11:52 blafasel meant: I still don't get it: What exactly was the problem with PowerVR (and all the other neat features)? Nokia N?? phones use it, right? Feb 20 23:11:57 those phones don't have 800x480 screens Feb 20 23:12:04 Navi, why would the PowerVR help? we get free scaling from the LCD controller... Feb 20 23:12:07 that's the problem Feb 20 23:12:22 pupnik: Can you elaborate? I'm really unable to get it.. Feb 20 23:12:40 omap2420 doesn't natively support 800x480 screens Feb 20 23:13:19 blafasel, it's not hooked up correctly. Feb 20 23:13:27 johnx, hardware acceleration of graphics Feb 20 23:13:33 Who cares about scaling? Feb 20 23:13:35 heh :) ALARM_EVENT_ACTDEAD Feb 20 23:13:37 how cute Feb 20 23:13:42 That are different points though. Is the bus/hook the problem or the resolution? Feb 20 23:15:13 and why is the ui for the nes;/mame emulators so bad at loading roms it makes no sense Feb 20 23:16:06 Because they were quickly put together because users complained that they were too inept to use the command line. Feb 20 23:16:47 well alot of the users prob never used linux before Feb 20 23:17:04 but still they could update the ui insted of leaving it in its current state Feb 20 23:18:41 if you had a go at the UI I'm sure they'd accept patches :) Feb 20 23:18:45 blafasel, the OMAP2420 is designed for a maximum of 640x480, the N8x0s are 800x480. Feb 20 23:19:30 johnx I would but I can't code Feb 20 23:19:40 im only a cridic lol Feb 20 23:19:44 :P Feb 20 23:19:58 dospod: it should at least remember a list of ROMs so you don't have to specify location every time Feb 20 23:20:17 s/cridic/critic/g Feb 20 23:20:27 hmm also how is the debian armel port going if anybody knows? Feb 20 23:20:52 dospod, I need to work on sound some more Feb 20 23:20:58 buttons work pretty reliably now Feb 20 23:21:08 thats an intresting projet Feb 20 23:21:29 Im not sure how it would help me get a better use out of my tablet but something about debian and their repos make think i can lol Feb 20 23:22:55 I need to work on getting debs built of the xomap with rotation :) Feb 20 23:22:58 maybe today Feb 20 23:23:42 hmm my question and I know its prob noobish but would the debain repos have better emulation apps than current ones Feb 20 23:24:01 Maybe. Feb 20 23:24:04 they'll have *more* emulation apps Feb 20 23:24:15 I doubt they'll have any that are more well optimized Feb 20 23:25:18 debian armel is compiled with armv4t as a target, while the emus specifically for the N8x0 are compiled for armv6te w/ vfp Feb 20 23:25:26 I hope the WiMax tablet comes soon so the N800 reaches my affordability. Feb 20 23:26:07 Navi, about the video acceleration. I was under the impression that there wasn't much you could accelerate about an SNES emu except the actual scaling and display? Feb 20 23:26:21 (though I've been wrong before...) Feb 20 23:26:25 * pupnik stabs openal in the face Feb 20 23:26:37 What? Feb 20 23:27:06 unless you want to write a PPU or a sound core for the TI dsp Feb 20 23:27:30 There's a lot of blitting involved that would be made faster with graphics acceleration Feb 20 23:27:45 I guess my dreams of snes on my tablet are pretty much crushed : \ Feb 20 23:30:17 That's where SNES takes the biggest hit on the GP2X, as the CPU is enough to emulate everything else. Feb 20 23:31:49 and wouldnt an atari 2600 emulator make sense on the n800 Feb 20 23:31:59 one button joystick with a 4 way d pad Feb 20 23:32:05 dospod, do you know the name of one? Feb 20 23:32:23 dospod i've been playing with snes on the tablet for about 11 months Feb 20 23:32:25 ste;;a Feb 20 23:32:34 stella* Feb 20 23:32:51 dospod http://pupnik.de/software.html Feb 20 23:34:04 pupnik, how well does it run? Feb 20 23:35:06 hmm no deb Feb 20 23:35:12 johnx, google would tell you >_> stella is one Feb 20 23:35:19 hah i made vi segfault Feb 20 23:35:24 nice Feb 20 23:35:33 the busybox vi or a real vi? Feb 20 23:35:38 busybox Feb 20 23:36:20 hey pupnik what am I supposed to do with the tar Feb 20 23:36:39 gah Feb 20 23:36:48 Stupid Sourceforge Feb 20 23:37:40 delete it Feb 20 23:37:50 * Navi deletes sourceforge.net Feb 20 23:37:52 done Feb 21 00:00:53 apt-get install --reinstall osso-esd Feb 21 00:01:02 Reinstallation of osso-esd is not possible, it cannot be downloaded. Feb 21 00:01:16 God damn, APT has long-ass options. Feb 21 00:01:28 APT is going to give me RSI. Feb 21 00:01:58 Alias, Navi. :P Feb 21 00:02:07 Too lazy. Feb 21 00:02:19 Not like I run debian or anything. Feb 21 00:15:28 hey GeneralAntilles if you do /etc/init.d/esd restart do you hear a bunch of beeps? Feb 21 00:16:39 Nope Feb 21 00:16:50 Just the normal background hiss when a sound goes off. Feb 21 00:17:42 you have os2008? Feb 21 00:17:55 Yeah Feb 21 00:19:37 oki thanks... restored my libesd0 manually Feb 21 00:50:52 sorry to repeat a question, but has anyone here experience in developing for maemo with gcj or fpc? Feb 21 01:00:00 what's that? Feb 21 01:05:51 pupnik, you've toyed around with snes emulation, right? Feb 21 01:32:51 do any of these emulation packages take advantage of the DSP? Feb 21 01:34:03 gcj is the gnu java compiler (builds native executables) fpc = free pascal Feb 21 01:48:27 elb only for scaling the display Feb 21 01:58:10 the display scaling should be on the lcd (at least for the YUV formats, i am playing with xv at the moment and its just auto scaling directly after getting the lower res data over the bus Feb 21 01:59:02 That's nice . . . but when do I get an auto-scrolling book reader? :P Feb 21 01:59:14 im looking at one without fonts at the moment.. Feb 21 01:59:54 GeneralAntilles, vote against the "somtimes cursor keys stick" bug? :P Feb 21 01:59:58 im working on a dual level scrolling since its tough to get smoothness (its about 10fps so far) at full res Feb 21 02:00:20 Good thing you can't vote against bugs. Feb 21 02:00:24 johnx: all keys sometimes stick! Feb 21 02:00:43 I mean, not only when you cover them in molasses Feb 21 02:00:43 Else I'm sure the green-nicks would've banded together to annihilate my "Unplug charger BS" bug. Feb 21 02:00:49 doesn't fbreader auto-scroll? Feb 21 02:01:11 Not as far as I've ever been able to divine, elb. Feb 21 02:01:13 does the unplug charger message offend you? Feb 21 02:01:20 because a renderer for YUV must actually render at 2 distinct levels - 1 set for 800*480 and another (the color planes) are 400*240 Feb 21 02:01:22 Yes. Feb 21 02:01:25 hmm, I thought I saw auto-scroll preferences Feb 21 02:01:27 it says to unplug to 'save power' lol Feb 21 02:01:27 * elb looks again Feb 21 02:01:29 It gets in the way when I'm trying to use the tablet. Feb 21 02:01:36 elb, its line scrolling and it hurts your eyes Feb 21 02:01:50 Unplug the thing and I've got to wait 5 seconds to close whatever application happens to be open. Feb 21 02:02:21 oh, so it's its position or modality which offends you? Feb 21 02:02:36 It's a lot of things. Feb 21 02:02:42 because whatever i render must already be halved im gonna try to switch from high resolution static page to half resolution scrolling page after the user clicks... Feb 21 02:02:47 Tama^2: wall warts burn a disturbing amount of energy doing nothing Feb 21 02:02:48 It's the usability impact, it's the hypocrisy. Feb 21 02:02:48 I just thought about it...other alerts are shifted down a couple pixels for exactly that reason, aren't they? Feb 21 02:02:58 Nokia could have just shipped a wall wart which didn't *do* that, but they aparently did not Feb 21 02:03:08 elb, Nokia's wallwarts burn just about zero. Feb 21 02:03:11 They switch. Feb 21 02:03:23 GeneralAntilles: you've said that before -- but my wife's Nokia phone wall wart burns quite a bit Feb 21 02:03:30 it's warm to the touch with nothing plugged in Feb 21 02:03:40 How about your N810 charger? Feb 21 02:03:41 it looked like my nokia one was one of those that do now burn too much power Feb 21 02:03:42 they pretty much all switch, that's not the whole story Feb 21 02:03:54 Even so, I still don't need my tablet telling me to unplug shit. Feb 21 02:03:58 i enjoy knowing that my useless wall warts are contributing to the heat-death of the universe Feb 21 02:04:03 the n810 charger is at least cool to the touch Feb 21 02:04:16 but still, it could be burning nearly the charging power of the n810 and remain relatively cool Feb 21 02:04:25 pupnik: Chaos and decay, I say! the way to go Feb 21 02:04:25 A number of people on ITT have measured its usage at idle at zero. Feb 21 02:04:37 mine are just contributing to keeping my apt above freezing O_o Feb 21 02:04:38 (I unplug wall warts as a matter of habit, anyway) Feb 21 02:04:41 But that's still not the point. Feb 21 02:04:54 a number of people on ITT believe that their power button has a G-spot Feb 21 02:04:54 I don't need my tablet telling me how to use my electronics. Feb 21 02:05:02 that seems relevant here ;-) Feb 21 02:05:08 Hardly. Feb 21 02:05:25 I take everything I see on ITT with a liberal dosage of salt Feb 21 02:05:49 I guess I agree that there's no need for the tablet to preach, but I haven't noticed the message being bothersome Feb 21 02:05:56 damned fceu. dsmn it damn it damnit. it's pushing 30fps now but the sound buffer has errors at the edges Feb 21 02:05:57 It is. Feb 21 02:06:16 If Nokia ACTUALLY gave a shit, they wouldn't manufacture billions of disposable phones a year. Feb 21 02:06:30 with proprietary power cells Feb 21 02:06:32 It's a stupid, usability impacting message. Feb 21 02:06:33 don't forget that part Feb 21 02:06:48 and proprietary power supplies Feb 21 02:06:57 both of which contribute to waste in a *huge* way Feb 21 02:07:05 but their phones do the job, just like a screwdriver. but you know, people want new screwdrivers. Feb 21 02:08:55 I dunno, I basically keep my phones until they die Feb 21 02:09:05 I'd also like the stupid liability waver to go away in App Manager. Feb 21 02:09:10 Good evening. Feb 21 02:09:31 ironically, I've noticed a tendency for Americans to do that, but Europeans and the Japanese (I can't speak to other Asian cultures) to replace their phones constantly Feb 21 02:09:57 as long as we're doing wish-list style stuff, I'd like almost *all* the confirmation stuff to go away on most of the tablet Feb 21 02:10:02 (the irony being that we actually have a place to *put* all the old discarded phones, whereas Europe and Japan -- no so much) Feb 21 02:10:13 I came in late, but I assume you mean hanging on to cell phones. It's because Americans get SCREWED when they change phones. Feb 21 02:10:22 SDuensin: yes and no Feb 21 02:10:32 American cell phones are no more expensive than European cell phones Feb 21 02:10:34 in my experience Feb 21 02:10:37 believe me, Italians are techno-feticists Feb 21 02:10:44 a new phone every 6 months Feb 21 02:10:59 No, but if you so much as think about getting a new phone in America, the carrier locks you into another full-term contract. Feb 21 02:11:06 no, that's not true Feb 21 02:11:12 unless you want to get a reduced price Feb 21 02:11:19 the thing is, in Europe you simply *always* pay full price Feb 21 02:11:22 well at least in Japan, new features are being introduced constantly and *marketed* Feb 21 02:11:42 I'd rather pay full price and have a carrier that treated me like an actual customer. Feb 21 02:11:53 you can do that here with several carriers Feb 21 02:12:01 * SDuensin is with Verizon and really wants them to self-destruct. Feb 21 02:12:15 Oh yea, they'll let me pay full-price. They won't treat me any differently though. :-( Feb 21 02:12:17 pay full price for a GSM phone and then walk into an AT&T shop with it, for example Feb 21 02:12:33 you can sign up with no contract, etc. etc. Feb 21 02:12:36 Oh man. There's a reason AT&T's logo is the Death Star. :-) Feb 21 02:12:51 and our contracts are actually pretty good, in world-wide comparison, too Feb 21 02:12:58 SMS is stupid expensive, of course Feb 21 02:13:05 Yea. That baffles me. Feb 21 02:13:06 but that's OK -- talking voice is ~free! Feb 21 02:13:21 SMS is stupid, anyway. Feb 21 02:13:32 yes and no, SMS has its place Feb 21 02:13:36 I always get unlocked phones Feb 21 02:13:38 but not at $0.20 a pop or whatever Feb 21 02:13:40 GeneralAntilles, and you use *what* for short text messages from a phone? Feb 21 02:13:44 Yea, but I can SMS in the middle of a boring meeting. :-) Feb 21 02:13:45 but they have premiums associated with them in the US Feb 21 02:13:47 Nothing Feb 21 02:13:49 I call people. :P Feb 21 02:14:07 you can get a phone that's carrier locked for a discount, or a phone that's more expensive than it should be. Feb 21 02:14:07 Navi: with many carriers, you can have your phone unlocked for any number of reasons, for free Feb 21 02:14:30 that phone that's "more expensive than it should be" is indeed more expensive than it should be, but it's world-wide competitive Feb 21 02:14:30 if that works for you then more power to you, many people do like being able to send short text messages :P Feb 21 02:14:34 (I was shocked to find this out) Feb 21 02:14:43 Verizon lobotomized my RAZR. I can't do crap with it without paying them an insane fee. Feb 21 02:14:59 no, now you're (probably) talking about data services Feb 21 02:15:12 that's not a phone issue Feb 21 02:15:20 Verizon is pretty much the worst of the bunch. Feb 21 02:15:28 Don't extrapolate Verizon experiences to the rest of the market. Feb 21 02:15:30 SDuensin, I think that's one of big reasons why as a whole american's aren't interested in new phones...they don't get anything out of the deal unless they pay more anyways Feb 21 02:15:34 No, I'm talking them ripping the OBEX code and other features out of the phone. Feb 21 02:15:35 or at least, that's the perception... Feb 21 02:15:41 well, I don't knwo about "worst", they're all pretty bad ;-) Feb 21 02:15:47 Not just switched off, mind you. Removed. Feb 21 02:15:57 Verizon has custom firmware on all their handsets. Feb 21 02:16:02 SDuensin: oh, well, I've never seen anything like that Feb 21 02:16:07 Feature-reduced custom firmware. Feb 21 02:16:13 heh Feb 21 02:16:18 Yea. I noticed. :-( Feb 21 02:16:23 most carriers have "custom firmware", but the custom firmware is really just a set of images, sounds, and feature switches for a standard firmware Feb 21 02:16:37 they call them 'SEEM's or something, at least for Motorola phones Feb 21 02:16:55 I did a SEEM edit to turn OBEX back on. No dice. The software actually isn't there. Feb 21 02:17:07 yeah, I've never seen that Feb 21 02:17:07 suxxorz Feb 21 02:17:10 but I don't deal with VZ Feb 21 02:17:19 elb, good idea. Avoid VZ. Feb 21 02:17:26 mostly just because their service is crappy, not because of things like that Feb 21 02:17:40 I may try and flash it back to standard firmware now that I paid to get my photos out of the crazy thing. Feb 21 02:18:06 VZ and Sprint are problematic in that their phones are not radio-compatible with other carriers Feb 21 02:18:15 the GSM carriers at least have that going for them Feb 21 02:18:20 Kicker is, when I got the phone, I looked at the box, read the book. No mention of bastardized firmware. When I found out and called to complain, they just don't care. Feb 21 02:18:22 Eh, all Bell-derived carriers are evil anyways Feb 21 02:18:30 and VZ even sounds like a bucket of crap like GSM, so you're not even winning on that front ;-) Feb 21 02:18:39 yeah, really. the sooner CDMA (and other proprietary cruft) dies off, the better Feb 21 02:18:52 elb, yea. So far, it looks like "4G" networks will finally use all the same radios. Feb 21 02:19:14 well, GSM has moved to CDMA, is basically what's happened Feb 21 02:19:24 it really is a superior technology Feb 21 02:19:49 (that is, spread-spectrum versus time-division; not the other crap they layer on top) Feb 21 02:20:11 Anyway, sorry to come in yelling. :-) Feb 21 02:20:24 GSM as a standard got a lot of things right that the CDMA implementations (e.g., PCS) didn't Feb 21 02:20:34 * SDuensin is just rather disgruntled with the whole cell industry in America. Feb 21 02:20:35 * johnx needs to read up on the whole GSM/CDMA/W-CDMA/PHS mess eventually... Feb 21 02:20:35 unfortunately it sounds like butt, but you can't have everything ;-) Feb 21 02:21:47 W-CDMA is GSM Feb 21 02:22:02 3G GSM is code division (spread spectrum) instead of time division like 2G GSM Feb 21 02:22:09 yeah, that's what I thought Feb 21 02:22:11 spread spectrum is simply a better plan Feb 21 02:22:42 it's unfortunate that 'CDMA' was used opposite 'GSM', because they really aren't opposing acronyms Feb 21 02:22:50 ah Feb 21 02:22:53 it should have been "PCS" and "GSM", and "CDMA" and "TDMA" Feb 21 02:23:04 or whatever; VZ isn't PCS, but it's also a CDMA radio Feb 21 02:23:12 special Feb 21 02:23:12 TMI Feb 21 02:23:37 and then Japan throws PHS in the mix, which IIRC still uses WCDMA for 3G Feb 21 02:24:21 I think *all* of the 3G services are WCDMA Feb 21 02:25:25 but there are different incompatible implementations? Feb 21 02:25:28 "CDMA" is just an acronym that means spread-spectrum, and "W" just means wide band -- so any high-bandwidth spread spectrum phone is goign to be W-CDMA Feb 21 02:25:43 alright, makes sense Feb 21 02:25:43 there are different protocols running on top of the radios Feb 21 02:26:01 aaah Feb 21 02:26:16 there are also different methods of spread spectrum, I don't know how well "W-CDMA" is standardized Feb 21 02:27:10 that is, it's a generic term, but the industry may use it to mean a single radio protocol Feb 21 02:27:18 aah, nice Feb 21 02:27:26 yeah Feb 21 02:27:35 telecommunications standards are notoriously horrible Feb 21 02:27:42 it always seems like the more I learn about something the more it seems like a complete cluster*&% Feb 21 02:27:57 of course :-) Feb 21 02:28:03 heh Feb 21 02:28:09 anything designed by *international committtee* is going to be a pile of vomit Feb 21 02:29:02 well, designed and then somewhat ignored to varying degrees over the course of years Feb 21 02:40:54 where can i find the changelog for the new OS2008 flash? Feb 21 02:48:41 <_darc> hey everyone Feb 21 02:48:53 hey Feb 21 02:49:26 <_darc> could you possibly link me to a site that would tell me how to flash my n810 with the latest 08 build please? Feb 21 02:50:06 from windows, mac or linux? Feb 21 02:50:10 <_darc> windows Feb 21 02:50:29 You try Nokia support? Feb 21 02:51:06 <_darc> no not yet Feb 21 02:51:22 <_darc> ive been poking around on itT and couldnt find what i needed Feb 21 02:51:27 Have you considered trying Nokia support? Feb 21 02:51:53 _darc, didn't it come with some tool like "software updater"? Feb 21 02:52:17 <_darc> i didnt get a cd or anything with mine Feb 21 02:52:21 It's right on Nokia's support page for the N810. Feb 21 02:52:52 <_darc> on there now, thanks Ant Feb 21 02:52:56 <_darc> and john Feb 21 02:53:34 hmm...honestly "flash n810 windows" doesn't come up with many results on google Feb 21 02:53:56 <_darc> yea =/ Feb 21 02:54:11 "software update n810 site:nokia.com" :) Feb 21 02:54:43 It's interesting how support for a lot of things has drifted very far away from the manufacturers. Feb 21 02:54:53 Firs thought is community support rather than manufacturer support. Feb 21 02:55:00 (since manufacturer support usually sucks) Feb 21 02:55:11 the maemo.org wiki has good info Feb 21 02:55:13 yes, that's exactly the problem Feb 21 02:55:25 ITT wiki has good info, too. Feb 21 02:55:31 and the ITT forums. Feb 21 02:55:35 <_darc> yea, i just started on the forums Feb 21 02:55:47 <_darc> i see a lot of your posts there actually Feb 21 02:55:55 even after company "support" websites are starting to get better, people still naturally avoid them Feb 21 02:56:00 saving them for a "last resort" Feb 21 02:56:30 <_darc> im assuming flashing is like reformatting right? Feb 21 02:56:38 <_darc> lose all the stuff on there etc... Feb 21 02:56:44 yup, the device is wiped clean Feb 21 02:56:53 Well, except for the cards. Feb 21 02:56:54 only thing you don't lose is the lock code Feb 21 02:57:06 <_darc> ok Feb 21 02:57:07 aaah...right, N810 Feb 21 02:57:26 <_darc> ive been having all kinds of funky problems Feb 21 02:57:35 such as? Feb 21 02:57:41 On one hand it's kinda sad that support has drifted from manufacturers since their support usually sucks Feb 21 02:57:53 <_darc> well i tried to install rtcomm update 2 Feb 21 02:57:56 but on the other hand, it's also a good thing is the community is usually a lot more agile. Feb 21 02:57:58 <_darc> and it snowballed from there Feb 21 02:58:13 The rtcomm beta seems to be beta for a reason. ;) Feb 21 02:58:16 I blame it on liability concerns... Feb 21 02:58:22 <_darc> yea i know its in beta Feb 21 02:58:32 <_darc> but i think im on an older 08 build anyways Feb 21 02:58:39 ah Feb 21 02:58:41 <_darc> so i figured it couldnt hurt to update =) Feb 21 02:58:49 that would probably be good :) Feb 21 02:59:25 <_darc> it wont even let me do system updates Feb 21 02:59:35 <_darc> says im missing a butt load of lib files Feb 21 02:59:51 did you a lot of repositories? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 21 02:59:57 2008