**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 02 10:59:57 2008 Mar 02 10:59:59 but usb host for card reader or something may be cool Mar 02 11:00:01 i will have to buy one Mar 02 11:00:03 or portable hdd Mar 02 11:00:04 sooner or later Mar 02 11:00:12 for now i'm loving wlan and ssh Mar 02 11:00:12 :) Mar 02 11:00:15 iGo stopped making them :( Mar 02 11:00:59 I'll probably hack up an ugly stand to attach my N800 to the keyboard...next stop: hardware store, but not today Mar 02 11:01:17 duct tape... Mar 02 11:01:34 I'm thinking maybe a door mounting plate type thing Mar 02 11:01:35 :) Mar 02 11:01:39 dunno what it's called Mar 02 11:01:48 johnx: a hinge ? Mar 02 11:01:50 vesa mount? Mar 02 11:01:54 not a hinge though Mar 02 11:02:14 lol @ getting a tilt n swivel bracket for your 810 Mar 02 11:02:45 * johnx is tired, probably isn't making much sense Mar 02 11:02:49 lcuk2: yep, flexibility and durability, stainless steel!! just fantastic :) Mar 02 11:02:52 it's a pity n8x0 doesn't have four button on the right side too Mar 02 11:02:52 I'm just happy that my keyboard works Mar 02 11:02:55 (like in psp) Mar 02 11:02:57 :) Mar 02 11:03:07 aaaaaaaactually, its a shame they didnt include a camera tripod mounting screw to the base Mar 02 11:03:17 ffffs @ stutter Mar 02 11:03:29 that would have been really nice Mar 02 11:03:47 johnx: Thanks :) Mar 02 11:03:58 lcuk2: I'll grab by mate's n810 and see if it can be drilled. I am sure he wouldn't mind :) Mar 02 11:04:10 lol spiry Mar 02 11:04:11 hmm Mar 02 11:04:22 does anyone else have bt keyboard stutter like i appear to be having Mar 02 11:04:24 just break old dig-cam and superglue the part Mar 02 11:04:25 :) Mar 02 11:04:45 lcuk2: with high cpu usage or long holds on the keys, yeah Mar 02 11:04:50 KotCzarny: might work, but it will look ugly as hell :) Mar 02 11:04:52 press quicker or run less stuff Mar 02 11:04:54 thats just the sensible approach, best go with the drilling "its the only way to be sure" Mar 02 11:05:00 make it cute then! Mar 02 11:05:02 :) Mar 02 11:05:14 yesh.. Mar 02 11:05:19 right through the lcd Mar 02 11:05:20 ;) Mar 02 11:05:21 i have xchat open and a webpage from a while ago with pastebin on Mar 02 11:05:25 KotCzarny: a cute birck ? :) heh, I give up :) Mar 02 11:05:44 very odd, the keyboard works but the caps lock/num lock/scroll lock lights don't come on O_o Mar 02 11:06:21 you could drill straight through the ambient sensor, its useless anyway, and it might also go through the gps antenna, which may actually make that work as well, so in the end its a plus Mar 02 11:06:51 johnx, power considerations, you might find if you press keys from all quadrants of the keyboard it may reboot Mar 02 11:07:03 well that's awesome Mar 02 11:07:20 I'll do a sync and try right now Mar 02 11:07:23 lcuk2: maybe a shock therapy with an explosive stuck to the device will help ? I've heard it works wonders with people! Mar 02 11:07:24 you only have 100ma, so no keypounding Mar 02 11:08:05 i know a lot of people want an exploded view of 810 but thats pushing the envelope a bit far Mar 02 11:08:12 will it blend? Mar 02 11:08:27 very likely, dont breathe this in - its nokia smoke Mar 02 11:09:01 lcuk2: what does the nokia smoke do to you ? Mar 02 11:09:30 lcuk2, I thought it was more like 200mA? Mar 02 11:09:34 try it and see Mar 02 11:09:37 also I just pressed all the keys at once Mar 02 11:09:40 no effect :) Mar 02 11:09:51 except lots of letters showing up in "Notes" Mar 02 11:10:33 and the N810 text prediction bar even shows up. Cute :D Mar 02 11:10:39 no john, usb OTG is 100ma. Thats because a normal usb device is given 100 to init itself and send over its spec. the otg device is not expecting any more tho Mar 02 11:10:59 john, diff keyboards have diff power requirements, mine must have been a fatty Mar 02 11:11:07 this one is quite small Mar 02 11:11:16 power consumption wise Mar 02 11:11:52 :O youngest is singing Mar 02 11:12:04 ahahaha! it lists the power consumption on the box Mar 02 11:12:09 I didn't even notice Mar 02 11:12:17 on which box? kb? Mar 02 11:12:21 yeah Mar 02 11:12:23 20mA Mar 02 11:12:27 cool Mar 02 11:12:50 then that explains why yours works nicely :) Mar 02 11:13:33 it might take a bit to get used to this key size, but I learned the Zaurus...This shouldn't be too hard Mar 02 11:13:39 this logitech deluve has 5v100ma on the back Mar 02 11:15:03 the key-pitch and layout might drive some people nuts, but that just means no one will borrow it from me. :D Mar 02 11:16:08 if you don't want to borrow, just say no Mar 02 11:16:16 should work most of the time Mar 02 11:16:16 :) Mar 02 11:16:37 yeah, but this way no one will even ask :) Mar 02 11:17:18 The PluThon thingy for Eclipse works Mar 02 11:18:20 It can start python apps on the tablet remotely for testing Mar 02 11:18:23 cute Mar 02 11:18:38 so does vnc and ssh Mar 02 11:18:39 :) Mar 02 11:19:04 I'd rather use ssh myself Mar 02 11:19:08 it's quicker Mar 02 11:19:10 ;) Mar 02 11:19:27 and more convenient/safe Mar 02 11:22:12 ive got a nice little script setup to make/copy/run/killall an app i am testing Mar 02 11:22:29 use nfs/sshfs Mar 02 11:22:39 just mount you devel dir and run directly Mar 02 11:22:40 i use scp to do the copy Mar 02 11:22:41 :) Mar 02 11:22:49 *your Mar 02 11:23:48 it does its job as it stands but that sounds like i would need to put code on the device aswell, or just build it into a mounted dir? Mar 02 11:24:17 just imagine it as a local dir on you nokia Mar 02 11:24:27 even if it's on pc Mar 02 11:24:30 really Mar 02 11:25:14 ahhh do it that way round, thats a possibility, but since its through a vmware box and not available all the time its not that simple Mar 02 11:25:28 i want to push the exe for testing but then run again when i am offline Mar 02 11:26:16 i dont want to have to keep wifi enabled just to read a book Mar 02 11:26:37 it is available Mar 02 11:26:57 you vmware box has net access Mar 02 11:27:02 so it can be done Mar 02 11:27:57 yes, it does, but not all the time, it might do whilst i am sat developing, but i want to carry on testing offline - its a book reader and the best way to test it is to sit back and read and i dont want to drain battery with wifi Mar 02 11:28:24 Nokia770-49:~# evince Mar 02 11:28:24 evince[1179]: GLIB CRITICAL ** Gtk - gtk_widget_set_sensitive: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed Mar 02 11:28:24 Segmentation fault Mar 02 11:28:27 but when you're done developing you can copy it finally Mar 02 11:28:28 What the hell? Mar 02 11:28:52 and you can even do it from nokia itself Mar 02 11:29:02 because it's mounted on it Mar 02 11:29:18 but the way i am doing it, i get best of both worlds, i test directly on device and can control it and start/stop when i like and i also get to walk away with the latest version, even if vmware shut off or wifi off Mar 02 11:29:25 nah Mar 02 11:29:31 you're stressing your flash Mar 02 11:29:32 ;) Mar 02 11:29:37 over and over Mar 02 11:30:51 the best way is: develop on pc, mount dir via nfs on nokia, test it on nokia, when done, run script to copy to the /usr/local Mar 02 11:30:53 :) Mar 02 11:30:53 i stress my flash every time i do anything with the filesystem, i hardly think a single file update will make matters worse - the 128mb of swap is doing tonnes more damage Mar 02 11:31:12 swap ? rarely Mar 02 11:31:16 but how do i know when i am done?little things l Mar 02 11:31:22 journal wears the flash a lot more Mar 02 11:31:23 ike irc get in the way and family Mar 02 11:31:51 lcuk, you will know when you're done because you will be quitting vmware Mar 02 11:31:52 :) Mar 02 11:35:41 not really, vm is still running this time, but little things stop me getting anything done - fact is at the moment im happy with how im doing it and it works well for me :) Mar 02 11:36:13 sure Mar 02 11:36:23 though i prefer mounting Mar 02 11:36:24 :) Mar 02 11:36:34 I really doubt anyone will find a way to kill their flash except through very heavy swapping Mar 02 11:36:40 that way i can browse other files too Mar 02 11:37:01 johnx: heavy swapping isn't that bad as you think Mar 02 11:37:08 journal is a lot worse Mar 02 11:37:30 but jffs2 and vfat are ok Mar 02 11:37:33 how is journal worse? it's one extra write for every realy write to a file...correct? Mar 02 11:37:33 :> Mar 02 11:38:05 it all depends on the how the card handles wear leveling, but considering the cost per MB I would not worry honestly Mar 02 11:38:18 tama: data loss Mar 02 11:38:25 money is not a problem Mar 02 11:38:27 ext2 with noatime might work Mar 02 11:38:41 but data loss happen at the worst moment Mar 02 11:38:43 usually Mar 02 11:38:44 data loss is not happening within the lifetime of the card Mar 02 11:38:49 Tama^2, a broken internal flash on the N810 would be no fun Mar 02 11:38:51 roughly 5 years? Mar 02 11:39:15 * KotCzarny runs ibm x32 on 4gb compact flash Mar 02 11:39:16 :) Mar 02 11:39:25 ~2 years by now Mar 02 11:39:26 john, it wouldnt break totally, the available space will just start to drop as more secotrs are marked bad Mar 02 11:39:27 KotCzarny, if you're swapping you're potentially reading and writing in small chunks as fast as the card can be written to Mar 02 11:39:50 johnx: but in different places Mar 02 11:39:59 journal is usually 4-32mb Mar 02 11:40:06 wear leveling... Mar 02 11:40:23 wear levelling is usually divided in sectors Mar 02 11:40:29 sandisk used 4mb sectors Mar 02 11:40:55 so it's not move this block to anywhere on card Mar 02 11:41:09 but move this block anywhere on 4mb-sector Mar 02 11:41:28 aaah...ok, I could never get a definitive answer on that Mar 02 11:41:35 can you direct me to some in-depth reading? Mar 02 11:41:47 i have seen a white-paper for a wear levelling v1.0 Mar 02 11:41:51 from sandisk Mar 02 11:41:54 i would like to see a memory module with standard ddr a cap and a baseline of flash so when the power goes out it has enough internal power to copy everything onto flash Mar 02 11:42:22 I think you can read patents about it Mar 02 11:42:28 lcuk: that's called system cache Mar 02 11:42:29 ;) Mar 02 11:42:57 im on about a proper drop in replacement, so the issue of writeeeeee times never comes up Mar 02 11:43:02 johnx: http://www.sandisk.com/Assets/File/OEM/WhitePapersAndBrochures/RS-MMC/WPaperWearLevelv1.0.pdf Mar 02 11:43:09 but if you read the implementation of jffs2 it's pretty much the same concept implemented on the host Mar 02 11:43:23 cool, I'll add that to my list of bedtime reading... :) Mar 02 11:43:47 but it's old Mar 02 11:43:52 and may be outdated Mar 02 11:43:55 :) Mar 02 11:45:44 right, family time - cyas later Mar 02 11:45:51 * Tama^2 has quit (Error: 69 (Too much sex)) Mar 02 11:46:08 see ya lck2 Mar 02 11:48:34 Tama^2: Too much? :) Mar 02 11:49:54 there is no such thing Mar 02 11:50:01 there is Mar 02 11:50:09 but I saw that joke on IRC ages ago Mar 02 11:52:40 heheh Mar 02 11:52:55 KotCzarny: myeah, if it's starting to hurt and eat all your time, maybe ;) Mar 02 11:53:06 :) Mar 02 11:58:05 guess my n810 is cursed, reflashed and gets stuck installing the 'maemo-pc-connectivity' :) Mar 02 12:03:23 that's a bad name for that package btw Mar 02 12:03:44 indeed Mar 02 12:03:47 I wonder how many people will install it expecting sync software or somthing Mar 02 12:03:51 :) Mar 02 12:03:52 hah Mar 02 12:08:41 yrgh omap3530 has 430-MHz TMS320C64x DSP Core Mar 02 12:08:56 ? Mar 02 12:09:58 fast Mar 02 12:10:34 and? Mar 02 12:10:44 http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?showtopic=40795&st=135 Mar 02 12:13:07 http://youtube.com/watch?v=4Y1PwLM8SKI ti making open source push for OMAP3530 Mar 02 12:14:38 pupnik, you are familiar with pandora? is the "April/may" release date something that can actually happen? Mar 02 12:15:27 yes according to the public/private info I have Mar 02 12:17:37 hmm Mar 02 12:17:44 that omap has 3 sdio interfaces Mar 02 12:17:45 :> Mar 02 12:17:49 ooooh Mar 02 12:18:05 3x 32GB SDHC ftw :) Mar 02 12:18:16 money money money Mar 02 12:18:18 sorry, had to say that ;) Mar 02 12:18:23 it will have 2 full size SD slots Mar 02 12:18:24 one 32gb sdhc would be ok Mar 02 12:18:26 for a start Mar 02 12:18:34 very true Mar 02 12:18:34 :) Mar 02 12:18:45 but i'm not complaining Mar 02 12:18:48 8gb is fine too Mar 02 12:18:53 :) Mar 02 12:19:02 I really can't believe that SDHC spec only supports up to 32GB :/ Mar 02 12:19:04 * aquatix currently has 4GB minisd Mar 02 12:19:24 in its current version at least Mar 02 12:19:30 but my microsd -> minisd adapters should come in soonish Mar 02 12:20:25 so buy 10 cards and have 320GB on the go Mar 02 12:21:02 * aquatix drools a bit Mar 02 12:21:13 with tv-out you can have a nice little media player Mar 02 12:21:34 swapping card sucks Mar 02 12:21:50 yeah Mar 02 12:21:58 KotCzarny: still one big card can store much more than one dvd Mar 02 12:22:03 then get a battery pack and a 1TB drive on usb Mar 02 12:22:12 :) Mar 02 12:22:14 KotCzarny: you will not have to swap too often if you know what you want to watch Mar 02 12:22:28 I read the SDHC spec, from what it looks like they just need to flip a couple bits in software to support arbitrarily large sizes Mar 02 12:22:37 i'm not a divx maniac Mar 02 12:22:46 so 8gb is fine for me Mar 02 12:23:06 * aquatix already has 2.5GB of music on it Mar 02 12:23:14 and some Futurama Mar 02 12:23:16 really, 640KB ought to be enough... Mar 02 12:23:17 KotCzarny: my only concern would be not loosing the cards, it was hard enought sometimes to find a 5.25"" floppy, looking for an sd or microcd would be a nightmare Mar 02 12:23:29 yes Mar 02 12:23:30 johnx: that's working mem ;) Mar 02 12:23:37 that's why swapping cards suck Mar 02 12:23:39 :) Mar 02 12:23:39 but it's the principal Mar 02 12:24:13 johnx: ever seen vista? Mar 02 12:24:14 :) Mar 02 12:24:19 KotCzarny: and worse, under certain circumstances and a reasonable intoxication level swallowing an microsd card becomes a possibility... Mar 02 12:24:19 ew Mar 02 12:24:30 spirytusick: hahaha Mar 02 12:24:33 myeah Mar 02 12:24:34 "keep this safe, its listers mind" Mar 02 12:24:40 KotCzarny: gives new meaning to the expression "gone to shit" Mar 02 12:24:45 i already almost lost such a card in the train Mar 02 12:24:45 :) Mar 02 12:24:54 KotCzarny, I really haven't played with it except at a store... Mar 02 12:25:07 johnx: it sucks Mar 02 12:25:08 johnx, i guess it's bootloader is bigger than 640kb Mar 02 12:25:09 ;) Mar 02 12:25:28 i had to fix things on it for family, and it's a purely annoying OS Mar 02 12:25:30 anyways Mar 02 12:25:37 storage and working mem are two things Mar 02 12:25:54 I was making a point though Mar 02 12:25:56 what would be nice are a pockets INSIDE the device Mar 02 12:25:58 why wouldn't you be able to have high quality media [movies, music]? Mar 02 12:26:10 is it possible to see comic? Mar 02 12:26:14 KotCzarny: like... an extra SD slot? ;) Mar 02 12:26:17 K-Fox, yes Mar 02 12:26:19 I currently have 2 8gb sd cards Mar 02 12:26:32 aquatix, even not connected electrically Mar 02 12:26:33 :) Mar 02 12:26:38 12 gb is for storage and 4 gb for my / filesystem Mar 02 12:26:48 what is a name of application? Mar 02 12:26:51 K-Fox, google for comic viewer maemo Mar 02 12:26:58 thanks.. Mar 02 12:27:12 or put the rss feeds in google reader or something ;) Mar 02 12:27:14 quiver would work too Mar 02 12:27:15 so far I have enought space for everything, some pictures, some movies, and plenty of scummvm games, jagged alliance and a full copy of bg2, still a lot of space leftr Mar 02 12:27:16 :> Mar 02 12:27:38 jagged alliance? Mar 02 12:27:55 jagged alliance 2 to be exact Mar 02 12:28:02 only storage or it runs on maemo too? Mar 02 12:28:04 KotCzarny: Check the itt forums in the software/gaming section Mar 02 12:28:08 honestly though, why did they stop at 32GB? I thought one compatibility break would be enough to get them to fix things for real Mar 02 12:28:11 o.o Mar 02 12:28:36 johnx, money money money Mar 02 12:29:01 I guess...I tried to play "follow the money" but I just didn't see it Mar 02 12:29:24 new standard, new license? Mar 02 12:29:36 old device gone ? Mar 02 12:30:14 I thought the people who made the sd spec were representatives of the people who implemented it...maybe I assumed incorrectly Mar 02 12:31:11 johnx, it's the sales of cards that generates money Mar 02 12:31:12 i think Mar 02 12:31:21 johnx: having a standard wich does not require changes for long time is not exactly profitable nowadays Mar 02 12:31:26 right, so "joe has a camera that takes SDHC cards, he wants to buy a new bigger card, but he *can't* because it won't work in his camera" Mar 02 12:31:39 johnx: they can always charge you for a new upgraded capability Mar 02 12:31:54 johnx: it's not technical limitation, sadly only marketing... Mar 02 12:31:57 but by that time joe's camera would be outdated Mar 02 12:32:18 spirytusick, I came to the same conclusion after about 10 minutes with the spec Mar 02 12:32:29 but i guess laziness also plays some part Mar 02 12:32:38 I bet they've just been dumb and did it wrong again Mar 02 12:32:45 johnx: this is what is built in in everything nowadays Mar 02 12:33:33 johnx: I wouldn't be suprised if our n8x0 lcd controller and lack of 3d accelleration was not a design flaw but a required element of the marketing plot Mar 02 12:33:57 spirytusick, that's a little paranoid. :) I think Nokia is just as pissed to be saddled with this design Mar 02 12:34:20 they could upgrade the bandwidth to the lcd without compromising the major design Mar 02 12:34:21 "Don't attribute to malice what can be equally explained by stupidity." Mar 02 12:34:37 :) Mar 02 12:34:42 lcuk, the interface becomes unstable when run at higher speeds Mar 02 12:34:43 or by currently available hardware and prices Mar 02 12:34:54 lcuk: but then they would not be able to sell you the new tablet summetime ? :) Mar 02 12:34:57 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14317 Mar 02 12:34:58 :) Mar 02 12:35:09 for this specific lcd model, but there must be others which operate well at higher frequencies Mar 02 12:35:46 overclocking would be nice Mar 02 12:36:42 KotCzarny, overclocking the LCD interface? Mar 02 12:36:54 apparently 10% is the most you could get without risking damage Mar 02 12:37:04 :) Mar 02 12:37:16 could be enough for some people to be happy Mar 02 12:37:55 <10% and you only end up with display glitches and instability :P Mar 02 12:38:21 i'm happy for now Mar 02 12:38:32 and waiting for the mp3decsink fix Mar 02 12:39:39 for mplayer? Mar 02 12:39:43 yes Mar 02 12:39:54 libmad should end up faster anyways Mar 02 12:40:10 KotCzarny: what is it fixing? dsp decoding ? Mar 02 12:40:51 spirytusick: right now mplayer has sync problems in 2008, so they disabled gst support Mar 02 12:41:27 if they fix it think of it as a free cpu cycles Mar 02 12:41:27 technically, the lcd can handle > 25fps 800*480 YUV frames (i know because i am getting 27fps using only the greyscale channel but its refreshing everything) Mar 02 12:41:42 as long as libmad takes up less than 70MHz worth of CPU time it should be faster than doing it on the dsp Mar 02 12:41:45 KotCzarny: yep, slight delay in sound playback vs video Mar 02 12:41:49 libmad is ok Mar 02 12:41:52 sdl uses an unoptimum path to get its data Mar 02 12:41:54 but esd sucks big time Mar 02 12:42:15 it used to use ALSA, iirc Mar 02 12:42:27 but something is up with alsa in OS2008 I think Mar 02 12:42:31 johnx: cpu can be stuck to 400/133 mode Mar 02 12:42:43 then you get 400mhz AND free 133 of dsp Mar 02 12:42:49 is that enough for mp3 decoding though? Mar 02 12:42:59 (or is it 400/110) Mar 02 12:43:05 johnx: true, I have tried to compile a few module players in scratchbox, half of them did not work, a one of them had a weird speedup issue Mar 02 12:43:06 133 sounds right Mar 02 12:43:07 johnx: yes, more than enough Mar 02 12:43:42 spirytusick, and I've had nothing but pain from *something* they did to part of the path for a2dp Mar 02 12:45:12 johnx: let Mar 02 12:45:15 let Mar 02 12:45:25 let's hope the next os release will fix some of those bugs Mar 02 12:46:02 I hope so... Mar 02 12:46:19 don't hope. hack. Mar 02 12:46:20 :> Mar 02 12:46:28 I have been Mar 02 12:46:47 I've been hacking Debian, but I'm tired of running into stupid things that trip me up :| Mar 02 12:47:22 :) Mar 02 12:48:25 I dunno what Python installation tutorial told this poor dude to go to xterm, but he sent me 3 PMs begging me to help him last night. <_< Mar 02 12:48:29 is there any documentation on what triggers the cpu speedups Mar 02 12:48:32 the random chunks of ITOS thar are closed just put me in a stabbin' mood Mar 02 12:48:53 GeneralAntilles, if you look on the official site that's how it tells you to install it Mar 02 12:49:01 johnx, you should start filing bugs on bugzilla about pieces not having source. :P Mar 02 12:49:05 might want to drop them an email telling them to fix it Mar 02 12:49:07 Does it really? Mar 02 12:49:28 pretty sure Mar 02 12:49:42 Why in the world. . . . Mar 02 12:50:00 GeneralAntilles, http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/installation.html Mar 02 12:50:06 Yeah, I see it. Mar 02 12:50:13 lunacy, no? Mar 02 12:50:26 yes Mar 02 12:50:40 I'd expect better from INdT. . . . Mar 02 12:50:44 that's how i installed python2.5-runtime too Mar 02 12:51:12 not sure what's difficult on that though :) Mar 02 12:51:35 * KotCzarny never installed python by himself Mar 02 12:51:43 app-manager took care of it Mar 02 12:51:43 aquatix, hang out on itt for 20 minutes... Mar 02 12:51:44 :) Mar 02 12:52:00 johnx: yeah, really should be more on the forums i guess Mar 02 12:52:09 don't have time though :( Mar 02 12:52:13 make some dummy package that requires apt-get to fetch what they need Mar 02 12:52:18 * aquatix wonders what he's doing on irc at all :D Mar 02 12:52:21 and post .install somewhere Mar 02 12:52:22 :) Mar 02 12:52:25 KotCzarny: true Mar 02 12:52:30 sounds easy Mar 02 12:52:38 just some meta-package Mar 02 12:52:41 If Extras is enabled, anything that needs Python will install it. Mar 02 12:52:49 yup Mar 02 12:52:49 er...what I mean is the average itt user is fresh out of windows xp, never used the CLI, wants things to "just work" Mar 02 12:52:54 or even just a .install for python2.5-runtime Mar 02 12:53:07 * KotCzarny never used cli to install apps Mar 02 12:53:11 johnx: yeah Mar 02 12:53:13 there *is* one, but it apparently doesn't work intermittently Mar 02 12:53:37 johnx: i meant more like `i only see itt threads when googling on issues/things instead of even browsing it decently' Mar 02 12:53:47 oh well Mar 02 12:53:51 johnx, the solution for them is for the apps to depend on the runtime, right? Mar 02 12:54:03 not another package to install... Mar 02 12:54:03 jku: yeah Mar 02 12:54:10 and several apps don't :/ Mar 02 12:54:15 there are just a few that fall through the cracks and get in over their heads... Mar 02 12:54:15 that's stupid Mar 02 12:54:16 jku, they do. Mar 02 12:54:24 'least, all the ones that I've seen do. Mar 02 12:54:24 :) Mar 02 12:54:30 life Mar 02 12:54:34 oh wait yeah Mar 02 12:54:55 but they say 'uninstallable', because they miss the runtime Mar 02 12:55:15 uninstallable means it can be uninstalled Mar 02 12:55:16 ;) Mar 02 12:55:28 meh Mar 02 12:55:33 `not installable' Mar 02 12:55:38 ;) Mar 02 12:55:39 * aquatix is not that awake Mar 02 12:56:07 was some dutch-english fsckup :) Mar 02 12:57:15 Rendering is currently a scanline 2x scaler. Running lemmings about 5 fps. Mar 02 12:57:16 :/ Mar 02 12:57:18 pity Mar 02 12:57:40 playing lemmings with a stylus would be great :> Mar 02 12:58:03 * johnx remembers lemmings for the SNES Mar 02 12:58:16 * KotCzarny remembers lemmings on the amiga Mar 02 12:58:20 gah...the snes controller was not the best thing ever for that game Mar 02 12:58:21 superior sound Mar 02 12:58:22 :) Mar 02 12:58:24 isn't there a lemmings clone port already Mar 02 12:58:28 pingus Mar 02 12:58:40 I think it's playable but somewhat crashy? Mar 02 12:58:46 Ah, it seems they got rid of the /user meta package for Python-runtime. Mar 02 12:59:01 really? Mar 02 12:59:14 Evidently Mar 02 12:59:24 wow...well that's ... awesome Mar 02 12:59:40 :) Mar 02 12:59:42 So you either need redpill or root to install it without installing something that depends on it. Mar 02 12:59:50 . . . and if some things don't depend on it properly. :\ Mar 02 13:00:02 wonderful Mar 02 13:00:05 life Mar 02 13:00:17 'least we don't have to deal with the 2.4/2.5 nonsense anymore. :D Mar 02 13:02:22 * aquatix has even played lemmings on his old palm Mar 02 13:26:59 hello all :) Mar 02 13:27:14 hello Mar 02 13:28:02 It's true that N830 is equiped with WiMAX device? Mar 02 13:28:09 yes Mar 02 13:28:14 but it's not released yet Mar 02 13:28:24 so it can be reverted Mar 02 13:28:30 for any reason Mar 02 13:28:30 :) Mar 02 13:29:05 KotCzarny, do you know something we don't or are you just playing around? :P Mar 02 13:29:13 johnx: google for it Mar 02 13:29:34 yeah, I see the bestbuy ad that TexRat pretty much refuted Mar 02 13:29:36 There's no N830. Mar 02 13:29:56 :) Mar 02 13:29:56 There WILL be a WiMAX tablet, but it's not the one pictured in the Best Buy ad. Mar 02 13:30:10 KotCzarny, alright, stop playin' with the newbs :P Mar 02 13:30:58 :) Mar 02 13:31:39 So it's still in question..? btw when will Nokia announce about this things.. Mar 02 13:31:50 i don't know why wimax would be such a feature Mar 02 13:31:54 yes. only Nokia knows Mar 02 13:32:05 even now i'm setting rate to 2mbit Mar 02 13:32:15 (power, range etc) Mar 02 13:32:27 2 mbit? it's for WiMAX or Wifi Mar 02 13:32:28 KotCzarny: well, because you will have wireless everywhere then? Mar 02 13:32:30 my guesses? maybe at cebit, maybe when sprint's xohm network launches, maybe if you ask them really, really nice. :) Mar 02 13:32:43 wimax is for outside Mar 02 13:32:47 so wimax isn't wifi compatible? Mar 02 13:32:57 no Mar 02 13:33:02 google it :) Mar 02 13:33:05 i thought it's simply another speed upgrade Mar 02 13:33:06 :) Mar 02 13:33:15 no, it's some 4G thing Mar 02 13:33:16 wimax is a different standard all together, folks seem to keep confusing it Mar 02 13:33:23 just because of the "Wi" part Mar 02 13:33:27 KotCzarny, I don't know when you're playing and when you honestly don't know... Mar 02 13:33:29 Fang64: well, the name is confusing indeed Mar 02 13:33:34 802.16 Mar 02 13:33:37 I thinks WiMAX is still considered 3G by ITU Mar 02 13:33:43 yup IEEE 802.16 Mar 02 13:33:44 and it's based loosely on wifi, but it's a different thing altogether Mar 02 13:34:00 nice Mar 02 13:34:20 It operates at different frequencies from WiFi as well Mar 02 13:34:35 what's frequency they use in WiMAX Mar 02 13:34:42 depends on region Mar 02 13:34:43 Fang64: thankfully, otherwise it'd push our networks from the air :) Mar 02 13:34:46 er...it's frequency agnostic last time I checked Mar 02 13:35:12 hehe Mar 02 13:35:15 aquatix: we already have alot of trash on 2.4 microwave as it is, I can barely operate a AP where I am at due to trash Mar 02 13:35:17 you *could* implement it on unlicensed bands, but there wouldn't be much point Mar 02 13:35:18 frequency agnostic? what it's Mar 02 13:35:28 but it's microwave access Mar 02 13:35:37 so it's 2.4g + i guess Mar 02 13:35:37 well depends on the implementation Mar 02 13:35:41 some operate on multiple bands Mar 02 13:35:42 arif_endro, the wimax specification doesn't specify a frequency Mar 02 13:36:18 which is quite annoying at least when designing the antenna for those client s Mar 02 13:36:59 any info on the WiMAX chipset being used on N830? Mar 02 13:38:16 there's not much (any?) reliable info Mar 02 13:38:23 and it probably won't be N830 Mar 02 13:38:39 that "leak" was apparently a false alarm Mar 02 13:38:56 attention catcher Mar 02 13:38:57 :) Mar 02 13:39:22 * michele_ wonders if KotCzarny has the smiley embedded in the return key Mar 02 13:39:27 indeed, plus we have competition with other types of services like EVDO, HSDPA, and EDGE which offer similar speeds comparable to WiMax Mar 02 13:40:02 Nokia can choose what they are going to implement *yawns* and who knows if the N830 has any of those capabilities or if we'll get it XD Mar 02 13:40:37 btw. what happened to n820? Mar 02 13:40:40 anyone knows? Mar 02 13:41:02 lol, sometimes model numbers don't make sense lol Mar 02 13:41:07 ;) Mar 02 13:41:14 free slot for n810 update? Mar 02 13:41:24 yeah, and n7[89]0 Mar 02 13:41:28 the same thing that happened to the 780 and 790? Mar 02 13:41:38 lol Mar 02 13:41:39 beat me to it :P Mar 02 13:41:40 not to mention lower models Mar 02 13:41:41 ;) Mar 02 13:41:56 * aquatix never `got' the nokia numbering Mar 02 13:42:12 * KotCzarny had nokina 5510 Mar 02 13:42:15 nokia Mar 02 13:43:04 n810 is my first nokia Mar 02 13:43:16 i prefer SE Mar 02 13:43:20 when did Nokia start using Linux for their device? Mar 02 13:43:34 when they developed the tablets? Mar 02 13:43:50 the 770 was the first Mar 02 13:44:03 770 was mainly an underground project iirc Mar 02 13:44:14 just a guess, really don't know myself, my N800 was my first, but this was after viewing a N770 a while back Mar 02 13:44:17 I am with aquatix Mar 02 13:44:30 nokia UI was sensible until they introduced color screens Mar 02 13:44:35 i don't like sony part in se Mar 02 13:44:41 otherwise it's ok Mar 02 13:45:03 KotCzarny: agreed; i'd rather see them use SD and such, but i love their phones Mar 02 13:45:24 I still have the T39 :) Mar 02 13:45:28 * KotCzarny too Mar 02 13:45:31 without the sony part Mar 02 13:45:32 t39m to be exact Mar 02 13:45:52 bah. i've got two of them Mar 02 13:45:58 one white and one black Mar 02 13:46:20 I guess you like it alot.. :) Mar 02 13:46:57 yes Mar 02 13:47:03 ah yeah, that one Mar 02 13:47:03 it's a very nice phone Mar 02 13:47:10 keyboard is sick though Mar 02 14:08:56 hi Mar 02 14:09:19 hello Mar 02 14:31:11 v0.8 - 2008-02-20 - Lemon Mar 02 14:31:11 (r3064) Add support for Maemo, so the menu button acts as modifier key to perform right clicks. Mar 02 14:31:12 mmm Mar 02 14:31:17 jagged alliance Mar 02 14:31:20 mmMm Mar 02 14:37:31 has someone been able to get wpa_supplicant to work in os2008? Mar 02 14:38:09 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12738 Mar 02 14:38:12 It's on the front page. . . . Mar 02 14:39:07 I'm not sure how much of it works without wext but it's worth a try if you need it Mar 02 14:39:39 I was getting errors about unsupported functions Mar 02 14:39:57 sounds like you need the wext patch I mention at the end of the thread Mar 02 14:40:01 no guarantees though Mar 02 14:40:01 trying to connect to TTLS with PAP phase 2 Mar 02 14:40:06 aye Mar 02 14:40:45 hmm Mar 02 14:40:46 All I can tell you is that it "worked for me" for psk but I got an error or two Mar 02 14:40:53 I guess it turned out not to be important Mar 02 14:40:55 * johnx shrugs Mar 02 14:41:09 isn't there an oss project for a wifi driver for a n8x0 ? Mar 02 14:41:14 nope Mar 02 14:41:20 not as far as I know Mar 02 14:43:25 hmm is this something I could compile on the nokia itself or do I need a development environment on another computer Mar 02 14:43:35 both true Mar 02 14:43:39 there was a posting about an in progress driver on the linux-wireless ML Mar 02 14:44:29 freelikegnu, if you trust kernel modules from random people you meet on IRC I can put up the copy I have on my web server. interested? :) Mar 02 14:44:40 you'd need scratchbox setup, otherwise Mar 02 14:44:55 michele_, well that's nice to hear :D Mar 02 14:45:07 johnx: isn't that true for repository.maemo.org ? Mar 02 14:45:08 ;) Mar 02 14:45:38 I would very much like to try your module Mar 02 14:45:50 KotCzarny, heh...but people trusted when it's all nice and official looking :) Mar 02 14:46:04 yes, like microsoft.com Mar 02 14:46:05 ;) Mar 02 14:46:15 10 Mar 02 14:46:41 -10 Mar 02 14:47:21 johnx: I'm trying to dig it out, but I don't remember if I read about it here or on ITT Mar 02 14:47:30 don't worry about it Mar 02 14:47:31 n800 has a line in? Mar 02 14:47:32 o.O Mar 02 14:47:40 I'll look it up later Mar 02 14:47:45 about to go to bed Mar 02 14:47:58 ok Mar 02 14:48:00 'nite Mar 02 14:48:15 thanks again johnx Mar 02 14:48:56 freelikegnu, did you get the URL? Mar 02 14:49:21 It was on here, michele_. Mar 02 14:49:24 For the N810 chipset. Mar 02 14:49:30 dragorn noticed it. Mar 02 14:49:59 n810 has different wifi chip than n800? Mar 02 14:50:19 yes thanks : Mar 02 14:50:22 :D Mar 02 14:50:56 I'll have to get scratchbox going too Mar 02 14:51:17 unless you have fast net connection it will take some time Mar 02 14:51:23 it downloads ~300-400mb Mar 02 14:52:26 but overall it does it automatically Mar 02 14:52:35 so user interaction is minimal Mar 02 14:52:43 gotta love krisse's new tutorial "how to find themes"... he might as well have listed all of them :) Mar 02 14:52:45 freelikegnu, see the end of this thread for info on what to do after loading the module: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8791 Mar 02 14:52:55 and I need some sleep O_o up waaaay too late Mar 02 14:53:02 'night all Mar 02 14:53:24 gnite johnx Mar 02 14:53:34 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13739 Mar 02 14:53:37 oh, innards! Mar 02 14:53:48 IT pr0n Mar 02 14:53:49 ;) Mar 02 14:57:03 and i think of the first time i saw an opened IBM PC Mar 02 14:57:13 ;) Mar 02 14:57:28 yeah, /me started getting in early Mar 02 15:00:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N800 Mar 02 15:00:24 WiMAX Available through Sprint Nextel in '08 Mar 02 15:00:26 o.O Mar 02 15:02:40 I think I corrupted my 16gb sd hehe Mar 02 15:02:47 life Mar 02 15:03:04 fortunatelly it's not unrecoverable Mar 02 15:03:04 :) Mar 02 15:03:07 I think it can be fixed to Mar 02 15:03:10 tho Mar 02 15:05:07 [ 19.046875] hub 1-0:1.0: 200mA bus power budget for each child Mar 02 15:05:19 i guess n800 has 200mA for usb Mar 02 15:06:05 I'd like to hack mine to draw 5v from usb (instead of mini plug) ..though it might screw up host mode Mar 02 15:06:32 just add battery pack Mar 02 15:06:33 :> Mar 02 15:06:41 ie. 4xaa Mar 02 15:06:53 that will double as externall battery too Mar 02 15:07:34 I mean so I can charge with usb from another machine, seems odd that it was not designed that way Mar 02 15:13:06 is there knowledge about what the little pads on the n800 circuit board go to? Mar 02 15:13:57 ? Mar 02 15:14:07 Oh, hey freelikegnu. Mar 02 15:14:25 freelikegnu, I'm going to say it was a combination of things. A. no other Nokia device uses USB for power, B. the device is OTG, and C. USB doesn't really provide enough juice to charge the thing well. Mar 02 15:14:31 So, really, it's not odd. Mar 02 15:14:33 It makes perfect sense. Mar 02 15:14:55 Plus, the circuitry is a lot simpler if you don't have to consider the possibility of power coming from two places at once. Mar 02 15:15:25 GeneralAntilles: theres one new nokia that uses microusb for charging Mar 02 15:15:26 well, if usb were added you'd remove the other connector though Mar 02 15:15:33 but it doesn't have a normal charger plug Mar 02 15:16:36 motorola razor uses miniusb style plug too Mar 02 15:16:39 glass, ok, but did it exist back in 2006? Mar 02 15:16:47 We're not talking about motos. ;) Mar 02 15:17:07 truls, USB doesn't provide enough juice to charge the device well, though. Mar 02 15:17:13 but i was positively amazed Mar 02 15:17:14 GeneralAntilles: nah, 2007 Mar 02 15:17:22 Then my point still stands. Mar 02 15:17:25 that they didn't invent wheel again Mar 02 15:17:53 general: ever seen charger rating? Mar 02 15:18:18 890mA Mar 02 15:18:24 yeah Mar 02 15:18:30 USB is 500mA Mar 02 15:18:35 officially Mar 02 15:18:36 :> Mar 02 15:18:37 ah Mar 02 15:18:55 You expect them to make their charger decisions on out-of-spec power requirements? :P Mar 02 15:19:06 i have been connecting 1A hdds to my thinkpad Mar 02 15:19:14 though Mar 02 15:19:35 but i guess 500mA is enough for charging too Mar 02 15:19:42 Sorta Mar 02 15:19:43 it only takes a little longer Mar 02 15:19:44 But it'll be slow. Mar 02 15:19:56 and it may actually discharge during heavy use. Mar 02 15:20:04 I'm just upset that I left my chager at work for the w/e Mar 02 15:20:08 charger Mar 02 15:20:18 Buy yourself a couple extras Mar 02 15:20:22 Amazon or eBay Mar 02 15:20:26 :) Mar 02 15:20:28 and I dont have any plugs that fit the n800 lying around Mar 02 15:20:29 They're like $2 a piece. Mar 02 15:20:34 pity they changed the connector again Mar 02 15:21:02 yeah extra charger is a good idea, I just got my n800 this wekk Mar 02 15:21:35 $2 for a charger... I just paid €12 for one... Mar 02 15:21:43 :> Mar 02 15:21:50 there are chargers and chargers Mar 02 15:21:54 last week I busted open two laptop charger to solder new cables to them Mar 02 15:22:04 The connector got smaller Mar 02 15:22:08 A LOT smaller. Mar 02 15:22:13 Makes perfect sense that they changed it. Mar 02 15:22:16 The old one was BIG. Mar 02 15:22:18 I hate nokia's tiny connector Mar 02 15:22:22 michele_: i paid 19.99 EUR for mine :( Mar 02 15:22:22 not that big Mar 02 15:22:34 Big on a mobile device scale, KotCzarny. Mar 02 15:22:39 still not that big. Mar 02 15:22:42 the smaller nokia plug is much more prone to breaking than the old one Mar 02 15:22:46 even smaller phones used it Mar 02 15:22:50 exactly Mar 02 15:22:55 I got four from Amazon for $15 Mar 02 15:22:56 if I get one on ebay, I'm gonna test with a multimeter first! :D Mar 02 15:23:01 Mostly shipping cost. Mar 02 15:23:10 All Nokia-branded. Mar 02 15:23:11 that way you could have one charger for phone/n800 Mar 02 15:23:17 GeneralAntilles: i got an official nokia from a store Mar 02 15:23:23 but i really needed one Mar 02 15:23:29 :> Mar 02 15:23:30 i only had a US charger Mar 02 15:23:38 us charger would be fine Mar 02 15:23:39 and that's useless here in the netherlands ;) Mar 02 15:23:40 i guess Mar 02 15:23:45 they are 100-240 Mar 02 15:23:46 usually Mar 02 15:23:49 so? Mar 02 15:23:52 I think when I buy a house, I'm gonna have it wired with DC as well as AC Mar 02 15:23:54 pins don't fit in the wall Mar 02 15:23:56 aquatix: same here in Italy :) Mar 02 15:23:58 plug converters arent free Mar 02 15:24:02 pretty cheap though Mar 02 15:24:09 myeah Mar 02 15:24:15 yeah. like 0.20$ Mar 02 15:24:16 with 12v, +5 and -5 Mar 02 15:24:16 :) Mar 02 15:24:18 and harder to find than a normal charger Mar 02 15:24:39 i just wanted a charger ;) Mar 02 15:24:47 freelikegnu: when you buy a house, you'll have enough expenses to think before coming to an AC plug... Mar 02 15:24:51 and now i want alsa working on my freaking laptop :/ Mar 02 15:24:56 why does it break with newer kernels Mar 02 15:25:22 hmm? Mar 02 15:25:25 freelikegnu: when you buy a house, induction mats to charge devices have actually appeared ;) Mar 02 15:25:27 works fine on mine Mar 02 15:25:35 I will probably just be a desktop PSU in the attic Mar 02 15:25:50 it worked fine on my 2.6.18.3 kernel, but not on the stock 2.6.24-4 debian kernel :/ Mar 02 15:25:54 grmbl Mar 02 15:26:23 freelikegnu: like it can sustain the power through the whole house Mar 02 15:26:28 you'll get a lot of loss Mar 02 15:26:38 induction could be pulled from AC wiring I suppose hmm? Mar 02 15:26:45 we have an induction charger box at work... nobody uses it Mar 02 15:26:56 :> Mar 02 15:26:58 michele_: because no devices use it? :) Mar 02 15:27:12 aquatix: no, you can charge whatever you want with that Mar 02 15:27:23 wrap a coil around a device that is plugged in and on all the time anyways Mar 02 15:27:47 I can't remember the name, it was one that made a lot of noise some months agoo Mar 02 15:27:52 er a divces ac cable Mar 02 15:28:35 hm Mar 02 15:28:55 maybe a coil taped to a wall wart or laptop psu Mar 02 15:33:09 hmm Mar 02 15:33:33 when trying to do a make menuconfig it apparently doesn't link to ncurses Mar 02 15:33:39 anyone noticed? Mar 02 15:33:50 or i am doing something wrong.. Mar 02 15:56:45 hah. Mar 02 15:56:48 did it. Mar 02 15:56:54 make menuconfig works :) Mar 02 15:57:35 :D Mar 02 15:57:53 irc on my n770 works ;) Mar 02 15:59:33 but doesn't build Mar 02 15:59:35 huh. Mar 02 15:59:45 arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-n800-camera.c:204: error: `tcm825x_regs_rx44' undeclared (first use in this function) Mar 02 16:00:01 do i have to download something? Mar 02 16:08:03 http://www.pokylinux.org/images/sato/web-1.png Mar 02 16:08:11 anyone here mess with PokyLinux on an N800? Mar 02 16:08:22 whoooo Mar 02 16:08:23 tabs Mar 02 16:08:24 :> Mar 02 16:08:53 this is a screen from n800? Mar 02 16:09:12 no :) Mar 02 16:09:16 huh Mar 02 16:09:17 but it could be. Mar 02 16:09:28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob6NOwkFY0 Mar 02 16:09:54 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/08/09/video-poky-linux-30-running-on-nokia-n800.html Mar 02 16:09:54 we can use their browser, probably Mar 02 16:10:01 it uses WebKit. Mar 02 16:10:05 oh Mar 02 16:10:18 I believe it's Gtk based also though.. Mar 02 16:11:25 read 2. comment on the last page Mar 02 16:11:26 :) Mar 02 16:11:31 fysa: it is Mar 02 16:14:17 I wonder if I can just dump it on an SD partition. Mar 02 16:14:38 what is Pokylinux? Mar 02 16:15:02 it apparently is missing spport for usb and other Mar 02 16:16:05 watch ya ccache Mar 02 16:16:38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiDLjILuhec Mar 02 16:16:39 1:50 Mar 02 16:16:45 That's want I want for ITOS. :< Mar 02 16:17:04 pupnik: ? Mar 02 16:20:04 it loads slooow Mar 02 16:20:24 much slower than os2008 Mar 02 16:21:33 Looks like it's just the kernel and rootfs. Mar 02 16:22:39 why the heck n800_defconfig isn't compiling :/ Mar 02 16:22:48 it would be cool if all this tablet hacking resulted in something useful :) Mar 02 16:26:34 someone b0rken the 2.6.21.0-osso71 Mar 02 16:26:48 i guess they do configuration/testing on 810 Mar 02 16:27:28 removing one #ifdef helped :) Mar 02 16:27:30 KotCzarny: I think nokia_2420_defconfig should be used for both n8x0 Mar 02 16:27:56 ph5: huh? Mar 02 16:28:17 then update this site someone: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_kernel_guide_bora.html Mar 02 16:28:21 oh. bora. Mar 02 16:28:29 hate long links :/ Mar 02 16:28:49 KotCzarny: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/kernel_guide_for_maemo.html Mar 02 16:28:53 ah :) Mar 02 16:29:03 thanks :) Mar 02 16:29:43 is creAting maemokernel target necessary? Mar 02 16:30:32 no, compiling in the ARMEL one should work just fine. Mar 02 16:30:44 hum, ok Mar 02 16:30:59 though it's strange someone adds instructions for it Mar 02 16:31:22 It is not mandatory to set up a separate target for kernel compilation, but this example does it in case the default armel target has been modified in some special way. Mar 02 16:31:30 o.O Mar 02 16:31:44 is there some changelog for the OS2008 releases? i just saw that my n800 is still running 2.2007.50-2, but there is a 2.2007.51-3 version available. i know the difference between .51-2 and .51-3 is only some bootloader fix, but what's the diff between .50-2 and .51-3? Mar 02 16:32:13 Er, there is no external .51-2 Mar 02 16:32:32 The only difference between 50-2 and 51-3 is the NOLO bootloader. Mar 02 16:33:02 So, secondary, 2nd, and xloader. Mar 02 16:33:39 okay. so there's no need to reflash my device at all, if it's working now Mar 02 16:33:45 Right. Mar 02 16:33:51 great. thanks! Mar 02 16:36:32 hmm Mar 02 16:36:39 morrrrrrrnnniiiinnnnnn Mar 02 16:36:49 is there a size limit for a kernel? Mar 02 16:37:03 how big is your harddrive? Mar 02 16:37:33 i'm asking about n800 Mar 02 16:37:38 :P Mar 02 16:37:46 it doesn't have a harddrive Mar 02 16:37:48 Proteous: Morning?! It's 17:37 ;-) Mar 02 16:37:56 it's all relative Mar 02 16:38:07 8:38am here :) Mar 02 16:38:17 it's here 01:38am Mar 02 16:38:17 i'm not looking for a relative answer then Mar 02 16:38:39 i am tired Mar 02 16:38:48 Mon Mar 3 11:38:15 EST 2008 Mar 02 16:38:49 gogo to the bed Mar 02 16:38:49 :) Mar 02 16:39:11 KotCzarny is a vampire. Mar 02 16:40:07 hehehe Mar 02 16:40:15 irony. life. Mar 02 17:01:44 how robust is the screen of the n800? should i use some screen protectors? Mar 02 17:01:51 I would. Mar 02 17:01:51 not really Mar 02 17:01:57 but boost resell value Mar 02 17:02:00 eventually Mar 02 17:02:00 :) Mar 02 17:02:05 If you take care of it, it's not REALLY an issue. Mar 02 17:02:08 But there will be wear. Mar 02 17:02:25 KotCzarny, how long have you had your N800 again? ;) Mar 02 17:02:27 and tear(s) Mar 02 17:02:44 general: i have read someones review that it's quite durable Mar 02 17:02:47 :) Mar 02 17:03:00 and i have bought mine with screen protector already installed Mar 02 17:03:01 ;) Mar 02 17:03:11 Yeah, I have 2 years of hands-on experience. :) Mar 02 17:03:12 if you are one of those people who use the stylus like you were writing with a rock on a cement wall the definetly get a protector Mar 02 17:03:30 Really, though, even if if you factor out protection the improvements in visibility from an anti-glare protector and the much better texture are still worth it. Mar 02 17:03:49 actually, i have two n800, one for me, which still has the sheet from nokia, and a second for my girlfriend, but on her's, the sheet from nokia had a sticker on it which i couldn't remove, so her device is unprotected right now Mar 02 17:04:01 * sxpert has noticed scratches on the locations of solitaire cards on his N810 Mar 02 17:04:12 :> Mar 02 17:04:26 * KotCzarny noticed dust under the protector Mar 02 17:04:40 when device is hot it tends to bubble Mar 02 17:04:42 a little Mar 02 17:04:53 Crappy protector Mar 02 17:04:54 (guess I play too much solitaire on that thing) Mar 02 17:04:58 sxpert: one can definitelly tell that i play to much maemosweeper by looking on my n800's screen Mar 02 17:04:59 I'd buy the Boxwave anti-glare. Mar 02 17:05:12 youam, haha Mar 02 17:05:39 is there any way to fill scratches ? Mar 02 17:05:43 youam, I noticed a bug on that btw, it doesn't hide the cursor properly, leading to flickering Mar 02 17:05:50 oh, and the position of the soft-keyboard Mar 02 17:05:57 sxpert: yes Mar 02 17:06:13 and it states "you loose" instead of "you lose" Mar 02 17:06:22 cripes, transcoding 1st pass with mencoder with -o /dev/null is eating up disk space on /, but i can't find an output file, nothing is in /tmp.. and the .log file is going on another drive Mar 02 17:06:26 crazy Mar 02 17:06:35 :) Mar 02 17:06:49 ls -l /dev/null ? Mar 02 17:07:04 * GeneralAntilles whistles quietly and throttles back the porn download to pupnik's machine a bit. Mar 02 17:07:05 good call, but it's a valid device Mar 02 17:07:06 lol Mar 02 17:07:18 GeneralAntilles, rotfl Mar 02 17:07:40 pupnik: when have you checked? Mar 02 17:07:56 just now, and du /dev shows 136 blocks used Mar 02 17:08:30 then do du -sx /* Mar 02 17:08:36 and find what takes space Mar 02 17:08:38 pupnik: look into /proc/`pidof mencoder`/fd Mar 02 17:09:25 pupnik: there you see all files opened by that process, including already deleted files which are still opened, so that they take place but aren't visible in the directory listing Mar 02 17:09:27 thanks, that's a useful piece of info Mar 02 17:10:37 there/s 3 entries for /dev/pts/4, one read-only for the source movie (on nfs mount) and a write opened on the /dev/null and a write opened on /media/sda7/divx2pass.log Mar 02 17:12:03 oh well freed up enough space Mar 02 17:12:07 GeneralAntilles, midget porn doesn't take up THAT much space does it? Mar 02 17:12:20 1080p :P Mar 02 17:12:44 default kernel is zImage? Mar 02 17:12:51 cool, might actually be able to see the people Mar 02 17:13:30 Yes, KotCzarny. Mar 02 17:13:41 then why howto says: make bzImage ? Mar 02 17:13:47 http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/kernel_guide_for_maemo.html Mar 02 17:15:27 does anyone know anything about vmware? if my computer loses power but i already have documents saved inside editor in linux image is there any chance i will lose them by the image becoming corrupt, or once saved is the image as stable as a regular hard drive? Mar 02 17:15:48 you always risk loosing data on power loss Mar 02 17:15:53 use laptop Mar 02 17:15:54 :) Mar 02 17:15:56 but data already saved Mar 02 17:16:03 lcuk, just buy yourself an cheap UPS. Mar 02 17:16:10 ie i clicked save 5 minutes before but still had everything open Mar 02 17:16:13 it all depends on buffering policy Mar 02 17:16:14 $50, it'll give you enough time to close whatever you're using. Mar 02 17:16:30 depends how cheap it is ;) Mar 02 17:16:58 your right of course, and so it kot, i might just get myself an eee or something similar Mar 02 17:17:12 is^ Mar 02 17:18:33 I never save my documents from within the image Mar 02 17:18:39 s/from/to/ Mar 02 17:18:41 Navi meant: I never save my documents to within the image Mar 02 17:19:31 shared folder on main machine? Mar 02 17:19:40 Haha . . . oops, set the boot menu selection time to 0 seconds. <_< Mar 02 17:19:56 0xFFFF to the rescue? Mar 02 17:19:57 ;) Mar 02 17:20:05 or hold shift? Mar 02 17:20:16 It's not an issue Mar 02 17:20:21 It auto-boots to internal flash Mar 02 17:20:25 Just means I can't select anything else. Mar 02 17:20:34 samba shares Mar 02 17:21:06 fair enough navi :) thx all, i might just adjust my system to acocunt Mar 02 17:25:34 hah it's the nfs log filling up my drive - must have started it with debug a few days ago :P Mar 02 17:25:41 :) Mar 02 17:28:04 This cpufreq governor tries hard not to change the frequency. Mar 02 17:28:05 lol Mar 02 17:28:20 CONFIG_CPU_FREQ_GOV_NULL Mar 02 17:28:21 ;) Mar 02 17:28:25 is there some tool i can use to automate setting up an maemo device? Mar 02 17:28:35 dd ? Mar 02 17:28:36 :) Mar 02 17:29:28 youam, yes, the human brain. failing that, the backup/restore cycle takes care of most things. Mar 02 17:30:18 Mmmmm, brains Mar 02 17:30:36 I should go eat something Mar 02 17:30:37 computer software cannot read minds and your configuration is not the same as mine Mar 02 17:30:45 lol @ procto Mar 02 17:30:48 gr Mar 02 17:30:55 lcuk: to much manual work. as said, i do have two n800 here, and i want to be able to clone networking settings and so on without entering stuff myself Mar 02 17:30:56 Proteous even Mar 02 17:31:10 proctoleus Mar 02 17:31:17 take a backup on one machine and copy the file to the other Mar 02 17:32:09 i think that would work, but since im not posh you might be better asking GeneralAntilles, hes got about 20 and must have tried something like this Mar 02 17:32:28 df Mar 02 17:32:54 pupnik: Password: Mar 02 17:33:17 m1dg3ts4all Mar 02 17:33:22 lol Mar 02 17:39:51 Poky's not very exciting at the moment. Mar 02 17:39:59 :) Mar 02 17:40:06 Need an external keyboard of some sort since there's no toggle for the matchbox keyboard. Mar 02 17:42:06 re Mar 02 17:42:14 when irb for maemo ? :) Mar 02 17:42:36 echo > /sys/class/leds/keypad/brightness 120 Mar 02 17:42:37 :> Mar 02 17:43:06 :O Mar 02 17:43:19 does that actually control the keypad light? Mar 02 17:43:22 yes Mar 02 17:43:23 :) Mar 02 17:43:29 values are 0-255 Mar 02 17:43:48 :D yayy i can read at night with my slot open (use thumb pad for next prev) and hate the light Mar 02 17:45:18 lcuk: fbreader? you know you can change page with the zoom button? Mar 02 17:45:21 * lcuk will have to read current value at startup, set it to zero and reset it back at shutdown. (unless a user specifies they dont want it touching) Mar 02 17:45:35 zoom button is tucked away inside my cradle Mar 02 17:45:52 my nokia basically lives now inside a neat little easy grip base Mar 02 17:46:05 echo 120 > /sys/class/leds/keyboard/brightness Mar 02 17:46:47 http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=810crateinkx8.jpg Mar 02 17:47:12 cd /sys/class/leds/keypad; echo > trigger timer ; echo > delay_on 10 ; echo > delay_off 10 Mar 02 17:47:15 ;) Mar 02 17:47:36 lcuk: O_O Mar 02 17:47:54 so, i almost never get at the back buttons. now only one thing remaining before i never have to pull it out: a way to LOCK device (do same as the slide switch at the back) Mar 02 17:48:09 but i want it programmatically Mar 02 17:48:20 it unlocks nicely by closing and opening keyboard Mar 02 17:48:24 * pupnik ponders the purpose Mar 02 17:48:39 easy to hold Mar 02 17:49:06 and when flipped around it rests on my chest at the right height to read from when in bed without having to wedge a pillow or something under it Mar 02 17:49:13 nop arm ache = hours of reading Mar 02 17:49:15 -p Mar 02 17:49:53 echo > /sys/class/leds/keypad/trigger heartbeat Mar 02 17:49:54 ;) Mar 02 17:51:14 oh, one other thing, when i am drawing on it with the screen open it doesnt tip backwards because of the step Mar 02 17:51:35 http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1256/810crateemptyhm3.jpg Mar 02 17:51:56 lol Mar 02 17:52:05 little things piss me off... Mar 02 17:52:37 The flash frequency is a hyperbolic function of the 1-minute load average. Mar 02 17:52:37 but now arm is perfectly comfortable because my wrist is resting at same height as screen Mar 02 17:52:47 hearbtbeat trigger can be useful Mar 02 17:52:48 :) Mar 02 17:55:12 wow debian-armel looks intrigueing Mar 02 17:55:28 you already have debian-armel.. Mar 02 17:55:31 :) Mar 02 17:56:16 the one nokia provides does not feel very debian Mar 02 17:56:40 freelikegnu: http://internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian Mar 02 17:56:46 like if I want to apt-get remove hildon ? Mar 02 17:56:49 i guess you can modify startup scripts Mar 02 17:56:53 (ask johnx for details) Mar 02 17:56:57 michele_: thats whatI'm looking at :D Mar 02 17:57:15 after it boots it's up to you Mar 02 17:57:19 :) Mar 02 17:57:37 I'd like to try to get OLPC's sugar running on the n800 Mar 02 17:59:21 Sugar needs OpenGL. Mar 02 17:59:31 Er, rather Mar 02 17:59:31 no Mar 02 17:59:54 Other sucrose thing in Ubuntu Mobile needs OpenGL. Mar 02 18:06:54 sugar does not need opengl, Mar 02 18:07:26 though it makes use of svg, which might be slow on the nokia? Mar 02 18:07:50 also python Mar 02 18:08:19 matchbox WM, with pygtk Mar 02 18:08:21 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Understanding_sugar_code Mar 02 18:09:11 i think nokia would do well to consider what can be done for a more flashy UI Mar 02 18:09:32 but... then again i like 'simple' personally Mar 02 18:09:40 ie, push them towards implimenting a more flashy graphics chip Mar 02 18:09:44 yes, shiny is nice Mar 02 18:09:51 perhaps some sort of powervr implimentation ;) Mar 02 18:09:52 but after a while you prefer speedy Mar 02 18:09:53 :) Mar 02 18:09:55 yeah i think 'shiny' sells Mar 02 18:10:11 iphone is mostly selling on 'shiny' Mar 02 18:10:26 what res is iphone Mar 02 18:10:46 320x480 i think Mar 02 18:10:52 sugar is far more suitable for a small touchscreen than what comes with maemo, imho Mar 02 18:10:52 cos if i knocked nokia res down to that i bet i could get responsive fast data Mar 02 18:11:29 you can get some gl like effects from svg Mar 02 18:12:33 a friend of mine is working on a python script to make dynamic svgs for webpages Mar 02 18:14:40 arent people happy using gif anims? Mar 02 18:14:47 or *spit* flash Mar 02 18:15:06 or javascript Mar 02 18:15:07 ;) Mar 02 18:15:58 i think server side is the best thing to come recently. very web 2.0 Mar 02 18:16:55 yes, and Mar 02 18:17:01 definitely. Mar 02 18:17:29 and i have heard ie doesn't support Mar 02 18:17:56 what a limited browser Mar 02 18:18:19 not much in svg support Mar 02 18:18:53 marquee brings some memories Mar 02 18:20:00 hi all Mar 02 18:20:24 all left Mar 02 18:22:16 any idea why mplayer,unzip and the cpu load applet cannot be updated but they appear in the list of available updates? Mar 02 18:22:30 check logs in app-manager Mar 02 18:26:30 svg support would be very appealing Mar 02 18:26:31 http://faemalia.net/ArtWorx/SVG/A-Time-For-Sleeping--A-Time-For-Loving.svgz Mar 02 18:26:37 NSFW Mar 02 18:26:48 404 - not found. The packages are missing Mar 02 18:27:11 packages? Mar 02 18:27:12 and challenging Mar 02 18:27:34 freelikegnu, i thought the idea was resizable? but apart from that it looks like a slow picture. what is the benefit to a web user? Mar 02 18:27:35 it scrolls slowly on 600mhz pentium-m Mar 02 18:27:35 its a compressed svg Mar 02 18:28:21 also is drawn badly Mar 02 18:28:34 heh Mar 02 18:28:47 lol, look in the source Mar 02 18:28:48 ;) Mar 02 18:29:10 what would you expect Mar 02 18:29:14 latin? Mar 02 18:29:26 obj342 ? Mar 02 18:29:28 I was looking for some svgz that were served via http Mar 02 18:30:09 i wonder how long it will take for them to add 'textures' Mar 02 18:30:10 ;) Mar 02 18:31:00 seriously, it will be fpp+web Mar 02 18:36:53 building sugar on debian: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_on_Debian Mar 02 18:47:02 * freelikegnu installs scratchbox Mar 02 18:48:45 what are suggested gcc flags for n800 ? Mar 02 18:49:29 does anybody have N800 with OS2007 installed to run a quick test? Mar 02 18:49:47 navi downgraded to 2k7 yesterday Mar 02 18:49:48 afair Mar 02 18:56:07 hah. Mar 02 18:56:23 having sshfs on n800 roolez. Mar 02 18:56:23 :) Mar 02 19:01:01 supposing i managed to get the flash, could me as an 810 user attempt to flash 2007? Mar 02 19:01:02 KotCzarny: nice Mar 02 19:01:31 fuse just kicks ass all around Mar 02 19:01:36 yeah Mar 02 19:01:45 good thing it compiles flawlessly Mar 02 19:02:09 fuseiso9660 is one I use alot Mar 02 19:04:28 lcuk, sure. Mar 02 19:04:35 Just gotta unpack it and flash individually. Mar 02 19:04:40 No guarantees that wifi will work, though. Mar 02 19:05:09 insmod -f ? Mar 02 19:05:10 :) Mar 02 19:07:44 flg: why do you prefer it over iso9660.ko ? Mar 02 19:08:17 hmmm too much trouble Mar 02 19:10:00 Hello Mar 02 19:18:04 KotCzarny: no need for sudo to mount .iso images Mar 02 19:19:53 ah. Mar 02 19:20:01 but isn't -o user for that? Mar 02 19:20:05 in fstab? Mar 02 19:20:22 no need to mess with fstab either Mar 02 19:21:01 but you mess with /usr/bin Mar 02 19:21:04 :) Mar 02 19:21:15 $ fuseiso9660 my.iso ./here Mar 02 19:21:39 :) Mar 02 19:21:53 it can be mounted to any folder quickly Mar 02 19:23:37 would be nice to make a script for context menu that will make a folder named from the selected iso and mount the iso to it Mar 02 19:23:57 simple Mar 02 19:24:02 yep Mar 02 19:24:04 but the one who needs it, writes it Mar 02 19:24:05 ;) Mar 02 19:24:14 I can do that Mar 02 19:33:34 in xfce/thunar its v.easy: Custom Actions => mkdir %f.mount & fuseiso9660 %f %f.mount Mar 02 19:37:58 install xfce on maemo? Mar 02 19:37:59 :) Mar 02 19:47:34 wwwwooow Mar 02 19:47:41 links on n800 rocks Mar 02 19:47:42 :> Mar 02 19:51:46 you got the mouse working? Mar 02 19:52:09 ? Mar 02 19:52:11 just needs vkbd support Mar 02 19:52:12 works out of the box Mar 02 19:52:17 ok Mar 02 19:52:29 if only it were "Links" the old golf game :D Mar 02 19:52:39 hmm Mar 02 19:52:47 keyboard, hehe Mar 02 19:52:53 i wonder how to call it Mar 02 19:53:00 there was xvkbd Mar 02 19:53:05 i wonder if it will work Mar 02 19:53:21 (standard x app to send key press events to any fg window) Mar 02 20:00:09 http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/xvkbd/ Mar 02 20:00:10 :) Mar 02 20:00:11 here Mar 02 20:12:10 I thought it was probably useful to publish information on the n810 serial console on my homepage. So here we go: http://bu3sch.de/n810.php Dunno if something like that doea already exist somewhere on the web, but google didn't find anything. Have fun anyway. Mar 02 20:23:33 So what's the OS 2008 xterm package? Mar 02 20:23:39 I'm not seeing one on maemo.org Mar 02 20:23:44 osso-xterm Mar 02 20:23:46 or something Mar 02 20:23:53 It's included by default. Mar 02 20:24:01 I see, it comes with it now Mar 02 20:24:04 Nice Mar 02 20:24:06 Well, that's cool ;) Mar 02 20:24:35 Unfortunately it's also a downgrade from the maemo-hackers version for 2007. :\ Mar 02 20:24:51 Seems like the worst thing that can happen to a piece of software is for it to become bundled. Mar 02 20:24:52 yeah, I wish they'd make another Mar 02 20:25:04 Then Nokia does their damndest to make it as shitty as you can possibly imagine. Mar 02 20:25:06 what's the problem to recompile? Mar 02 20:25:11 the hacker version was awesome Mar 02 20:25:12 Howdy, rm_you. :) Mar 02 20:25:13 I put up a little Ubuntu/Debian XFCE fuseiso tute here: http://www.freelikegnu.org/?p=44 Mar 02 20:25:14 :P Mar 02 20:25:22 I've got another project for you. :D Mar 02 20:25:24 lol Mar 02 20:25:30 http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/appmenu-mockup.jpg Mar 02 20:25:57 ? Mar 02 20:26:05 lolwtf Mar 02 20:26:17 Well, the idea is to replace the contacts Navigator plugin with a "My Selection" menu. Mar 02 20:26:29 Thus freeing up an extra folder in the Application Menu. Mar 02 20:26:55 Working: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/appmenu-duped.jpg Mar 02 20:27:31 GeneralAntilles: I just delete the "My Selection" folder and reorganize everything into my own folders >_> Mar 02 20:27:47 That's not the point. Mar 02 20:27:52 lol Mar 02 20:27:58 The point is that you get 12 extra spaces. :P Mar 02 20:28:03 something like XFCE panels "genmon" would be a nice applet, something that can take the generic stdout of a command or script and display in an applet box Mar 02 20:28:46 hrm well, i'm late for a software development meeting Mar 02 20:28:53 so i gotta run >_> Mar 02 20:29:00 general: get simple launcher Mar 02 20:29:04 your menu looks fugly Mar 02 20:29:05 :> Mar 02 20:29:12 bbl Mar 02 20:29:16 better way would be thinner rows Mar 02 20:29:19 KotCzarny, you still don't get it. Mar 02 20:29:29 i simply don't like it :) Mar 02 20:29:37 Good for you. Mar 02 20:31:00 Anyway, there's nothing saying that the row size can't be customizable. Mar 02 20:31:39 hmm Mar 02 20:31:55 but there's no exposed config either Mar 02 20:32:03 xvkbd works, kinda Mar 02 20:32:20 why wm ignores -geometry? Mar 02 20:35:24 KotCzarny, matchbox? Mar 02 20:35:32 yes, apparently Mar 02 20:35:38 because it's maximized only Mar 02 20:35:47 yes, i noticed that Mar 02 20:35:49 that's kind of the point Mar 02 20:36:00 and i guess it need some fluxboxing. Mar 02 20:36:11 but then again would text services work? Mar 02 20:38:20 hmm Mar 02 20:38:52 maximization button could be using to call xvkbd Mar 02 20:39:07 if nokia's panel refuses to work in other wm Mar 02 20:41:27 and making xvkbd transluecent and full screen would rock Mar 02 20:42:14 finger kb is pretty close to that Mar 02 20:42:24 transluecent? Mar 02 20:42:53 I said "pretty close" Mar 02 20:42:57 nah Mar 02 20:43:06 as it is nearly full screen too Mar 02 20:43:07 then xvkbd is at the same stage Mar 02 20:43:07 :) Mar 02 20:43:22 http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/xvkbd/#download Mar 02 20:43:23 have you seen cell-writer? Mar 02 20:43:53 nope, i haven't played with tablets before (too much) Mar 02 20:43:59 this is a nice input app: http://risujin.org/cellwriter/ Mar 02 20:44:12 very good recognition too Mar 02 20:44:25 i would like thumb keyboard more Mar 02 20:44:26 you can train it very quickly Mar 02 20:44:32 it has two modes Mar 02 20:44:44 writing and virtual kb Mar 02 20:45:06 no screenshot of vkb Mar 02 20:45:25 Goodday Mar 02 20:45:31 *yawn* Mar 02 20:46:36 it's there, I swear! Mar 02 20:46:57 http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/xvkbd.png Mar 02 20:46:58 :) Mar 02 20:47:06 and i mind you it's configurable Mar 02 20:47:30 and stretchable Mar 02 20:48:28 and sends keystrokes to last active/pre selected window Mar 02 20:52:47 and fugly Mar 02 20:52:49 xD Mar 02 20:53:02 yeah, it's old Mar 02 20:53:09 but imagine it transparent Mar 02 20:53:22 and you will actually see what you're typing Mar 02 20:53:31 without reducing other app window Mar 02 20:54:00 that would be cool Mar 02 20:54:04 yes Mar 02 20:54:06 :) Mar 02 20:54:15 and it shouldn't be too hard to implement Mar 02 20:54:15 without the numeric pad Mar 02 20:54:20 it's configurable Mar 02 20:54:28 you can enable numpad too Mar 02 20:54:40 but you can enter numbers already Mar 02 20:54:49 so i prefer having bigger 'keys' Mar 02 20:54:58 exactly Mar 02 20:55:17 on the screen shot numpad is enabled Mar 02 20:55:24 :) Mar 02 20:55:42 yes and it takes up too much space Mar 02 20:57:46 http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/xvkbd-nonumpad.png Mar 02 20:58:47 i should let it use some nicer font Mar 02 20:58:51 to make it appealing Mar 02 20:58:52 :> Mar 02 21:03:06 i think compose and up-arrow should be swapped Mar 02 21:03:16 on that shot Mar 02 21:06:01 wow is that an actual screen cap? Mar 02 21:06:06 yes Mar 02 21:06:09 and it's working Mar 02 21:06:19 nice Mar 02 21:06:22 fe. i can send keys to left side of the screen Mar 02 21:06:44 i can't move it to let some other app focus Mar 02 21:06:52 I wonder how it could be made to see through.. Mar 02 21:06:57 easy Mar 02 21:07:01 just do screenshot Mar 02 21:07:02 mix it Mar 02 21:07:05 and show it Mar 02 21:07:13 or simply use xshape Mar 02 21:07:28 but that would also send clicks to window below Mar 02 21:07:32 i guess Mar 02 21:07:35 the font would have to be larger to be clear and no look like text below Mar 02 21:07:46 it's configurable Mar 02 21:07:54 i just run it as it is Mar 02 21:07:55 :) Mar 02 21:08:14 its nice to have the f-keys handy Mar 02 21:08:18 yes Mar 02 21:08:22 they can be hidden too Mar 02 21:08:30 as you see on the screenshot with menu Mar 02 21:09:38 btw. font shouldn't be larger Mar 02 21:09:46 if the window gets transparent Mar 02 21:09:54 you wouldn't want to let it obscure too much Mar 02 21:10:10 (key names and borders should be still visible) Mar 02 21:10:57 also, keys can be programmed Mar 02 21:10:59 :) Mar 02 21:15:07 KotCzarny: here is cell-writer kb mode btw: http://herenaforge.org/random/cellwriter.png Mar 02 21:15:42 :) Mar 02 21:15:50 see you tommorow guys. Time to power off for tonight... Mar 02 21:16:14 is matchbox in OS2008 compiled with composting? Mar 02 21:16:23 composting, lol Mar 02 21:16:35 ? Mar 02 21:16:44 xD Mar 02 21:16:53 will it blend? Mar 02 21:17:10 compost (kmmpost) Mar 02 21:17:10 n. Mar 02 21:17:10 1. A mixture of decaying organic matter, as from leaves and manure, used to improve soil structu Mar 02 21:17:10 re and provide nutrients. Mar 02 21:17:12 ;) Mar 02 21:17:28 it's written like that all the intertubes Mar 02 21:17:35 oh Mar 02 21:17:43 but isn't it 'composing' ? Mar 02 21:17:44 :) Mar 02 21:17:47 it sounded fishy to me too but... Mar 02 21:17:52 com pos it ing Mar 02 21:17:56 oh Mar 02 21:17:58 yes Mar 02 21:18:04 :) Mar 02 21:19:39 my bad Mar 02 21:19:44 I cannot read properly Mar 02 21:30:50 I am trying to get mDNS working on my N800. I've installed avahi on the N800 but have not been able to ping my laptop with it's hostname.local Mar 02 21:31:27 My laptop and other machines on the network are running avahi and can ping each other with their hostnames. Mar 02 21:31:31 probably not exactly what you want but... Mar 02 21:31:33 cat /etc/resolv.conf ? Mar 02 21:31:44 It's just nameserver 127.0.0.1 Mar 02 21:31:58 what I do is hack /sbin/udhcpc Mar 02 21:32:10 what's mdns? Mar 02 21:32:18 The laptop has 192.168.1.1 Mar 02 21:32:29 And also "search home" Mar 02 21:32:38 search should be local Mar 02 21:32:39 I move the executable to /sbin/udhcpc_old and put a script in its place calling the exec with the -H hostname flag Mar 02 21:32:39 then Mar 02 21:32:41 I tried addingthat and "search local" with no luck. Mar 02 21:33:00 KotCzarny, I thought so but the laptop does fine with search home. Mar 02 21:33:11 Shouldn't avahi be writing to that file? Mar 02 21:33:13 probably has other config Mar 02 21:33:21 i use pdnsd anyway Mar 02 21:33:22 :) Mar 02 21:33:26 What's that? Mar 02 21:33:33 You use it on maemo? Mar 02 21:33:35 it's a dns cache + mini dns server Mar 02 21:33:46 nope, on my laptop, but i will install it on maemo too Mar 02 21:34:03 hm. I could use that. Mar 02 21:34:28 I'd have to set up a mini dns server on a server on the network and then tell the mameo to look there? Mar 02 21:34:37 huh Mar 02 21:34:42 you can install it anywhere Mar 02 21:34:46 even on maemo Mar 02 21:35:01 think of it as a caching proxy Mar 02 21:35:03 for dns Mar 02 21:35:05 :) Mar 02 21:35:07 Do I need a centralized server for the DNS or is it like mDNS? Mar 02 21:35:23 it can be told to use any server you like Mar 02 21:37:38 I copied my laptop's resolv.conf exactly to the nokia but it's still not working. Mar 02 21:37:50 what's in it? Mar 02 21:38:14 # generated by NetworkManager, do not edit! Mar 02 21:38:14 search home Mar 02 21:38:15 nameserver 192.168.1.1 Mar 02 21:38:48 I am assuming that it will not need a daemo restarted inorder to work. Mar 02 21:38:58 nope Mar 02 21:39:22 grep dns /etc/nsswitch.conf Mar 02 21:39:46 On the lap top: Mar 02 21:39:56 hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns mdns4 Mar 02 21:40:01 On the nokia: Mar 02 21:40:07 hosts: files dns Mar 02 21:41:27 try nslookup hostname.local 192.168.1.1 Mar 02 21:41:39 substitute hostname for the name you need Mar 02 21:42:12 "Can't resolve ..." Mar 02 21:42:25 then yout 192.168.1.1 server isn't working Mar 02 21:42:26 :) Mar 02 21:42:50 or at least doesn't know about .local domains Mar 02 21:43:07 Hmm, without the local the info is very interesting. Mar 02 21:43:18 Nokia-N800-50-2:~# nslookup dskippy-laptop 192.168.1.1 Mar 02 21:43:18 Server: 192.168.1.1 Mar 02 21:43:18 Address 1: 192.168.1.1 Wireless_Broadband_Router.home Mar 02 21:43:18 Name: dskippy-laptop Mar 02 21:43:19 Address 1: 192.168.1.12 dskippy-laptop.home Mar 02 21:43:33 then you domain is .home Mar 02 21:43:36 not .local Mar 02 21:43:37 :) Mar 02 21:43:54 Weird. It works at .local for everyone else. Why is that? Mar 02 21:43:55 it's probably some dsl/cable router Mar 02 21:44:06 maybe everyone else uses local hosts? Mar 02 21:44:13 But the other machines use home. Mar 02 21:44:19 or just send queries without .local ? Mar 02 21:44:46 Possible. Doesn't work for the other machines. Mar 02 21:44:56 try nslookup dskippy-laptop.home Mar 02 21:45:19 though it will simply use /etc/hosts for it Mar 02 21:45:47 Same output Mar 02 21:46:00 I guess I just have to use .home for it. Mar 02 21:46:06 :) Mar 02 21:46:11 I need to go log on to the other network to try it out though. Mar 02 21:46:13 you can set .local on your router Mar 02 21:46:17 I'm seeing inconsisancies. Mar 02 21:46:29 incosistencies Mar 02 21:46:44 :) Mar 02 21:46:51 :) Mar 02 21:47:08 You're both wrong. :\ Mar 02 21:47:21 :) Mar 02 21:47:25 probably Mar 02 21:47:34 inconsistencies Mar 02 21:47:37 No, not probably, you are. Mar 02 21:47:50 probably == 'yes, but i don't care' Mar 02 21:47:52 :) Mar 02 21:48:09 Then why did you try to correct skippy? Mar 02 21:48:10 i'm sleepy => prone to errors Mar 02 21:48:20 because i like to be correct? Mar 02 21:48:27 and mine was a typo Mar 02 21:48:41 So was his. Mar 02 21:48:46 and mine was inconsistant Mar 02 21:48:48 On the other router it doesn't work at all. Mar 02 21:48:58 :) Mar 02 21:49:08 or was it inconsistent? Mar 02 21:49:13 duke it out! Mar 02 21:49:20 ;) Mar 02 21:49:30 GA, help me! KotCzarny made fun of me! I need vengeance Mar 02 21:49:35 did i? Mar 02 21:49:38 xD Mar 02 21:49:47 who cares Mar 02 21:49:48 ;) Mar 02 21:49:53 Only if you become my code monkey. Mar 02 21:50:01 you shall pay dearly for it Mar 02 21:50:07 i'm nobodys monkey Mar 02 21:50:09 i'm a cat Mar 02 21:50:19 GA's code monkey? NOOOOOooooooo..... Mar 02 21:50:26 I'm gonna eat you little fisshhy Mar 02 21:50:37 fishty? Mar 02 21:50:47 m-i-t-a Mar 02 21:50:48 ;) Mar 02 21:50:49 Proteous, careful or you will break a tooth. those are robot fish Mar 02 21:50:58 :P Mar 02 21:51:20 * GeneralAntilles starts the Godfather speech. Mar 02 21:51:25 * KotCzarny yawns Mar 02 21:51:26 ;) Mar 02 21:51:47 KotCzarny, I can't resolve anything using 192.168.1.1 on the other network. Mar 02 21:51:59 life Mar 02 21:52:09 it's #maemo, not #internet Mar 02 21:52:10 :> Mar 02 21:52:17 It's a linksys wireless-n router. The one that's working that you helped me debug moments ago is a verizon fios router/modem. Mar 02 21:52:21 it's closer to #monkeys than #internet. Mar 02 21:52:21 life: no route to host Mar 02 21:52:33 * lcuk must be dead Mar 02 21:52:40 no Mar 02 21:52:43 life: connection reset by pheer Mar 02 21:52:47 just a unlucky parasite Mar 02 21:52:48 But still they work on all other machines other than the maemo. Mar 02 21:52:48 Zombie! Mar 02 21:52:57 dskippy, just use opendns Mar 02 21:52:58 :) Mar 02 21:53:07 and forget abot the rest Mar 02 21:53:10 about Mar 02 21:53:39 208.67.220.220, 208.67.222.222 Mar 02 21:53:43 those are ips Mar 02 21:54:30 btw. what gcc flags are usefull on n800? Mar 02 21:55:00 right now i'm using: -Os -s -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing Mar 02 21:55:02 * lcuk watches, i tried configuring optimisations with gcc but ended up slowing code down Mar 02 21:55:45 KotCzarny, Maybe I will. Mar 02 21:56:09 When I do nslookup dskippy-laptop.local on the other network I get "no authoritative answer" Mar 02 21:56:12 But I can ping it. Mar 02 21:56:16 -fomit-frame-fpointer Mar 02 21:59:53 One of the options that affect decoding performance is idct implemntation. It can be specified by using -lavdopts idct=# where # is some decimal number. MPlayer man contains the following information: Mar 02 21:59:58 http://www.oesf.org/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t22280.html Mar 02 22:03:38 i remember being able to drop 68k assembler into my code back in the mysts of time, can i still do that with arm? Mar 02 22:04:04 yes Mar 02 22:04:20 it's called inline assembly Mar 02 22:04:26 gcc does that Mar 02 22:05:56 but obviously if i am cross compiling for multiple targets i should use it sparingly and always have a c version of the function available for none arm builds Mar 02 22:06:20 you're hacking Mar 02 22:06:35 if it works good enough it's worth including Mar 02 22:06:57 no, ive taken a core function up as far as i can take it with native c and want to see just how far i can go Mar 02 22:07:31 word is gcc is highly optimized as it is Mar 02 22:07:48 optimisation doesnt seem to help tho that might just be me not knowing enough about the compiler.... Mar 02 22:08:03 but no compiler can beat hand crafted super optimised code Mar 02 22:08:07 but it can be quirky Mar 02 22:08:24 if its a one shot (basically its blitting with extras) Mar 02 22:08:29 i wonder what would gcc 4.2 did to the mplayer code Mar 02 22:08:30 :> Mar 02 22:08:49 not a great deal from what i can see... Mar 02 22:09:04 do you have gcc 4.x installed? Mar 02 22:09:06 :) Mar 02 22:09:19 god knows lol Mar 02 22:09:28 gcc -v Mar 02 22:10:10 you will probably have 3.4.4 Mar 02 22:10:12 nahhh its not - 3.4.4 Mar 02 22:10:13 yer Mar 02 22:10:25 your magic ball does you well Mar 02 22:10:31 4.x is quite different beast Mar 02 22:12:05 i expect in the future compiled code will beat hand tweaked, but it will no doubt involve lots of genetic testing of each block. its much like machine translation - its easy to get something that sounds right, but it will never be fluent Mar 02 22:12:24 spoken ^ Mar 02 22:12:52 i guess gcc tests what's good for you while compiling itself Mar 02 22:14:03 #define FF_IDCT_SIMPLEARMV5TE 16 (recently added in mplayer 1.0rc1) looks promising from the benchmarks Mar 02 22:14:07 tbh, i dont think it needs to do too much - theres no point the machine spending an extra 10 minutes heavily optimising the init/cleanup code for me - it works really well in its current form, its the inner loops etc that need work Mar 02 22:14:17 how will we tell it what to concentrate on? Mar 02 22:14:22 yanker: it's used by default Mar 02 22:14:28 from what i have seen in tests Mar 02 22:14:53 lcuk: oprofile Mar 02 22:14:54 :) Mar 02 22:15:07 it will tell you what parts of the code take most time Mar 02 22:15:21 -> what could be worth trying to optimize Mar 02 22:15:26 but that involves building each piece, running oprofile on its output rebuilding based upon the results etc Mar 02 22:15:34 time is money Mar 02 22:15:49 yes, but it all depends what you want to achieve Mar 02 22:15:50 :) Mar 02 22:16:11 suppose - like a 2 pass divx encode Mar 02 22:16:17 :) Mar 02 22:16:50 1 pass gives quick and dirty, but if you want better you let it run a second pass Mar 02 22:17:01 or download from p2p Mar 02 22:17:03 :) Mar 02 22:17:04 hi Mar 02 22:20:09 You may need to specify the name of your crosscompiler when running make (ex. 'CC="arm-softfloat-linux-gnueabi-gcc" make test-idct') Mar 02 22:20:10 After that please copy 'test-idct' bunary to your device and run it specifying cpu clock frequency in the command line (for 416MHz Zaurus it would be './test-idct --freq=416') Mar 02 22:20:15 http://www.oesf.org/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t22280-50.html Mar 02 22:20:15 :) Mar 02 22:20:40 time for some testing Mar 02 22:21:00 woo Mar 02 22:21:11 Still talking about movie playing? Mar 02 22:21:11 alterego: Any news on getting the ruby-maemo source? :) Mar 02 22:21:23 nope, optimization flags in general Mar 02 22:21:29 mmk Mar 02 22:25:27 fbreader works with pdfs...right? Mar 02 22:25:32 probably Mar 02 22:25:57 help!! i've a problem with gpg...someone know how use the gpg??...because he give me a message when I want create the new key (internal error) Mar 02 22:25:58 No Mar 02 22:26:03 Wish it did Mar 02 22:26:13 I've used it Mar 02 22:26:13 what does it read then? Mar 02 22:26:15 pdf is planned, hwever. Mar 02 22:26:22 HTML, RTF, plaintext Mar 02 22:26:25 oh Mar 02 22:26:33 so are there any pdf readers? Mar 02 22:26:40 the built in one, evince Mar 02 22:26:41 there is abuiltin one Mar 02 22:26:45 besides that Mar 02 22:26:49 s/\,/and/ Mar 02 22:26:55 poppler Mar 02 22:26:59 should be in repo Mar 02 22:27:01 evince is built into the NIT distro? Mar 02 22:27:03 evince is somewhere Mar 02 22:27:07 poppler? Mar 02 22:27:07 downvert it to flattext Mar 02 22:27:08 No, it's not built in :P Mar 02 22:27:10 lemme see Mar 02 22:27:36 I love comix Mar 02 22:27:42 now I can read all of mah manga :3 Mar 02 22:27:53 alterego: er, hi, BTW! Just realised I was a bit rude. Mar 02 22:27:58 hmm would i do something faulty by getting a dist-upgrade? Mar 02 22:28:10 you could fuck something up Mar 02 22:28:21 the repositories aren't unified on the dependencies front Mar 02 22:28:32 but go ahead, if you'd like. Mar 02 22:28:57 reflashing is fast Mar 02 22:28:59 :) Mar 02 22:29:03 and 99% safe Mar 02 22:29:04 ;) Mar 02 22:29:11 :D Mar 02 22:29:15 ah *pohew* Mar 02 22:29:23 reboot fixed my dbus Mar 02 22:29:25 Yeah, I was surprised at how fast it way. Mar 02 22:29:30 s/way/was/ Mar 02 22:29:30 Navi meant: Yeah, I was surprised at how fast it was. Mar 02 22:29:32 So I'm following the instructions for installing the sdk on a non-debian machine, and it tells me to use apt-get Mar 02 22:29:56 yea the flashing part itself is :) Mar 02 22:30:10 but reconfiguring the packages you installed prior to a flash is not :p Mar 02 22:30:25 "apt-get update" what does that mean to non-debian users? Mar 02 22:30:29 any easy method of producing a flash-image as backup? Mar 02 22:30:34 unixSnob, the scratchbox sandbox has apt-get Mar 02 22:30:39 you can always flash, install what you want (safe) then make a backup Mar 02 22:30:40 the sandbox is debian-based Mar 02 22:30:48 (dumping flash to network) Mar 02 22:31:02 what other format besides pdf has pages so i can remember where i left off? Mar 02 22:31:04 unixSnob, so, it doesn't matter what your distro uses. Mar 02 22:31:52 within the scratched box, the red hat dunna mean a thing ;-) Mar 02 22:31:58 apt-get is not in the bin dir Mar 02 22:32:07 nor does the gene spliced gentoo cow hehe Mar 02 22:32:13 unixSnob, it doesn't matter if it is. Mar 02 22:32:31 Do I run that on the scratchbox prompt Mar 02 22:32:36 yes Mar 02 22:32:42 :) Mar 02 22:32:46 unixSnob, lots of things aren't in normal places in sb... Mar 02 22:32:57 [sbox-CHINOOK_ARM: ~] > whereis apt-get Mar 02 22:32:58 apt-get: /usr/bin/apt-get /usr/X11R6/bin/apt-get /usr/bin/X11/apt-get Mar 02 22:33:01 find|grep does wonders Mar 02 22:33:24 symlinks Mar 02 22:33:29 find found 3 copies of it Mar 02 22:33:31 x11 is symlinked to /usr/bin Mar 02 22:33:38 Yanker, the one that gets used is /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/apt-get Mar 02 22:33:41 unixSnob, what you have to understand is that scratchbox, as simple as I'll put it, is just another distro. Mar 02 22:33:42 tell find not to follow symlinks Mar 02 22:34:14 s/just/yet Mar 02 22:34:45 just is also correct Mar 02 22:34:46 :) Mar 02 22:34:49 when you go into it, it uses the libraries, binaries, etc. that are within the scratchbox environment, it doesn't matter what you have on your own linux distribution Mar 02 22:34:56 seems like a Solaris zone or container Mar 02 22:35:27 --- benchmarking with zero idct coefficients --- Mar 02 22:35:29 simple_idct_armv5te time=604.8 Mar 02 22:35:32 simple_idct_armv6 time=769.6 Mar 02 22:35:35 o.O Mar 02 22:35:47 v5te is better? Mar 02 22:35:58 (on n800) Mar 02 22:37:20 yet sounds better, more gnu-ish ;) Mar 02 22:38:14 RMS can go lick his ass, who cares about GNU-ish. Mar 02 22:38:27 Navi: you're using GNU in your maemo.... Mar 02 22:38:36 :) Mar 02 22:39:05 The software I use is GNU/GPL, but any other open source license would work just as well. Mar 02 22:39:15 GNU is not a license Mar 02 22:39:24 ..it's a way of life Mar 02 22:39:25 ;) Mar 02 22:39:27 heh Mar 02 22:39:43 I realize it, which is why I stated GNU/GPL Mar 02 22:39:50 navi was just jokin' Mar 02 22:39:55 so, in other words, once again, you're talking out of your arse Mar 02 22:40:07 quite normal Mar 02 22:40:08 :) Mar 02 22:40:11 indeed Mar 02 22:40:23 * Navi sighs Mar 02 22:41:06 http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2007-September/035322.html Mar 02 22:41:23 doc|home, I never stated GNU was a license. Mar 02 22:41:31 The GNU Project was launched in 1984 to develop a complete Unix-like operating system which is free software: the GNU system. Mar 02 22:42:12 never the less, the GPL underlines the phrase 'free software' =) Mar 02 22:42:36 i can't begin to tell ya how optimistic i am about linux on a tablet Mar 02 22:43:14 it only takes one binary kernel module to taint it Mar 02 22:43:16 :) Mar 02 22:43:35 and if it is a network device driver... Mar 02 22:43:36 ;) Mar 02 22:44:13 out of fb2, oeb and openreader, which format is most popular? Mar 02 22:44:22 html Mar 02 22:44:28 txt Mar 02 22:44:33 txt or simple html Mar 02 22:44:36 txt is hxc Mar 02 22:44:38 i just used a pdf to html and it splits it into one html fileper page Mar 02 22:44:41 is that normal? Mar 02 22:44:45 yes Mar 02 22:44:48 ok Mar 02 22:44:51 you can join htmls Mar 02 22:44:57 hmm drivers.. anyone has a good buzzword for something to put serialized bits through the bluetooth? Mar 02 22:44:59 or make index page Mar 02 22:45:01 Don't have to >_> Mar 02 22:45:04 from say.. commandline or a c-lib? Mar 02 22:45:56 An interesting observation is that this ARMv5TE code is practically as Mar 02 22:45:56 fast as current ARMv6 implementation when considering only the number Mar 02 22:45:56 crunching part, but falls behind on storing pixel data to memory as Mar 02 22:45:56 ARMv6 can do cropping to 0-255 range much more efficiently because of Mar 02 22:45:56 having special instructions for that. Mar 02 22:46:37 there's hope for optimizations Mar 02 22:46:42 for n800+ that is Mar 02 22:47:17 theres always hope. its whether or not there is a will to perform those optimisations. Mar 02 22:47:26 :) Mar 02 22:47:31 i guess there is Mar 02 22:47:40 * lcuk is optimising graphics in a different direction Mar 02 22:47:47 it's already fast enough to do 800x480x25fps Mar 02 22:47:56 'optimizing' Mar 02 22:48:04 but not with sound tho is there Mar 02 22:48:53 you can always write a script to run mplayer -ac none && mplayer -vc none -ao gst at the same time Mar 02 22:48:55 :) Mar 02 22:49:00 and not a realtime. Mar 02 22:49:04 realtime Mar 02 22:49:15 s/a/in/ Mar 02 22:49:16 GeneralAntilles meant: innd not a realtime. Mar 02 22:49:20 <_< Mar 02 22:49:21 KotCzarny, you got any good pdf -> html converters? Mar 02 22:49:30 cLin, Acrobat. Mar 02 22:49:39 it would be cool if mplayer had a ability to intercommunicate and sync Mar 02 22:49:41 i use foxit =\ Mar 02 22:49:42 its perfectly possible to get the data to the framebuffer in realtime (my greyscale xv renderer can manage it full res) but thers not too much time left over for doing anything else Mar 02 22:50:46 dropping the res slightly gives more time available and doesnt look half bad - renders at fullscreen with free scaling etc Mar 02 22:51:46 ahhh speaking of which - is it possible for me to inform sdl_ttf that i want a different aspect ratio when rendering fonts Mar 02 22:52:02 probably Mar 02 22:52:18 hiya, im fiddling a bit with the .mozilla settings.. is there any mplayerplug-in as in usual distros yet? Mar 02 22:52:25 i couldnt see anything in my cursory observations - i think it takes it from the screen itself Mar 02 22:53:45 http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/benchmark/testsuite1/ Mar 02 22:53:50 for the needy Mar 02 22:54:13 also 2 is there Mar 02 22:54:38 the about:plugins looks a little sad in my microb.. :s Mar 02 22:58:35 holy shit Mar 02 22:58:50 ive just remembered what i was doing code wise the day my amiga died :S Mar 02 22:58:54 :) Mar 02 22:59:07 parkinson attacks Mar 02 23:00:12 just wow Mar 02 23:00:31 :P im not sick Mar 02 23:00:38 sure Mar 02 23:00:55 now go with the program Mar 02 23:02:29 i think i might do actually, it was reading about arm thumb instructions - i got a feeling like when you smell something and it brings you back to the kitchen when you were 3 Mar 02 23:02:31 back later Mar 02 23:03:21 hi Mar 02 23:03:30 hello Mar 02 23:04:05 hey johnx! Mar 02 23:04:47 Yeah.. kinda like if you grow up around pot smoke and good times.. then rediscover that odor when you're old enough to know what it is Mar 02 23:05:22 i've just set up my openvpn server Mar 02 23:05:33 * lcuk opens the window and fafts a towel around Mar 02 23:05:39 w^ Mar 02 23:05:56 using ddwrt? Mar 02 23:06:04 and now i'm able to use openvpn on my n810..it's great. Mar 02 23:06:07 hmm maemo-sdk repos dont seem to be working Mar 02 23:06:37 unixSnob, no i've got a linux server behind my router Mar 02 23:06:54 Resolving repository.maemo.org... 205.177.95.69, 205.177.95.55 Mar 02 23:06:54 Connecting to repository.maemo.org|205.177.95.69|:80... connected. Mar 02 23:06:54 HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found Mar 02 23:07:56 I'm redownloading the scratchbox, and its working okay Mar 02 23:08:12 he talks about maemo-sdk Mar 02 23:08:57 hmm seems like its maemo-sdk-rootstrap_4.0.1_armel.tgz now Mar 02 23:09:23 I just downloaded rootstrap within the hour Mar 02 23:11:26 changing to # Release configuration Mar 02 23:11:30 __version=4.0.1 Mar 02 23:11:39 seems to be working Mar 02 23:13:49 I was blown away to discover that Windows CE is open source Mar 02 23:14:04 open, but free? Mar 02 23:14:13 wonder what compelled microsoft to give up their control freakishness Mar 02 23:14:15 and wince sucked Mar 02 23:14:21 no, not free Mar 02 23:14:31 unixSnob, that "shared source" license? Mar 02 23:14:32 or at least, not free to redistribute Mar 02 23:14:41 Yeah, I think so Mar 02 23:14:50 that's not really following the "open source" guidelines then Mar 02 23:14:57 It's a crappy license Mar 02 23:15:00 more like "the source is available, in some way" Mar 02 23:15:13 But the fact that all the code is readable is quite a step for M$ Mar 02 23:15:19 more like open sores Mar 02 23:15:28 I wonder if it compiles Mar 02 23:15:30 :) Mar 02 23:15:35 but will it blend? Mar 02 23:15:53 What's "USB on the go"? Mar 02 23:16:06 freelikegnu: I think so Mar 02 23:16:07 probably one without much power Mar 02 23:16:23 Navi, a general name for a class of devices that can be a device or host Mar 02 23:16:26 and allowed to blow any devices it doesn't like Mar 02 23:16:32 johnx, ah Mar 02 23:16:36 gah Mar 02 23:16:39 alsa's dead Mar 02 23:16:43 eh? Mar 02 23:17:01 Er, on my system :P Mar 02 23:17:04 Navi, netcraft confirms it? Mar 02 23:17:05 :P Mar 02 23:17:06 No sound Mar 02 23:19:34 You all heard the good news that the new Ubuntu Mobile will incorporate the Maemo UI ? Mar 02 23:19:41 yup Mar 02 23:19:48 bad news it doesn't matter much for n8x0 Mar 02 23:19:51 6 or so months ago Mar 02 23:20:01 KotCzarny, it might get people to make more hildon apps Mar 02 23:20:17 desertc, link? Mar 02 23:20:39 KotCzarny: it is going to be wildly popular, and Canonical will be encouraging all sorts of development on it Mar 02 23:21:03 i guess there will be incompatibilies Mar 02 23:21:03 oh god no more Hildon apps! Mar 02 23:21:03 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ubuntu+mobile Mar 02 23:21:05 :) Mar 02 23:21:23 links in relation to maemo? Mar 02 23:21:28 freelikegnu, eh? Mar 02 23:21:30 +maemo ? Mar 02 23:21:32 KotCzarny: Error: "maemo" is not a valid command. Mar 02 23:21:32 ;) Mar 02 23:21:35 just being silly Mar 02 23:21:42 +ls Mar 02 23:21:43 KotCzarny: Error: "ls" is not a valid command. Mar 02 23:21:51 +set Mar 02 23:21:52 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=ubuntu+mobile+maemo Mar 02 23:21:52 KotCzarny: Error: "set" is not a valid command. Mar 02 23:21:56 +help Mar 02 23:21:56 I'm installing 4.0.1 sdk Mar 02 23:21:56 KotCzarny: (help [] []) -- This command gives a useful description of what does. is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. Mar 02 23:21:58 ... Mar 02 23:22:00 desertc, your point? e.g. http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile doesn't even mention hildon or maemo Mar 02 23:22:07 +help * Mar 02 23:22:08 KotCzarny: Error: There is no command "*". Mar 02 23:22:20 KotCzarny, stop hax0ring :P Mar 02 23:22:23 what's that? Mar 02 23:22:24 :P Mar 02 23:22:51 desertc, it does mention a flash or clutter UI Mar 02 23:23:20 apps will be hildon though, and designed for an 800x480 screen, IIRC Mar 02 23:24:10 Yeah, I'm not really expecting them not to use hildon, but I'm just wondering what the "news" was... Mar 02 23:24:40 might just be rumblings about hardy heron coming up Mar 02 23:25:12 huh Mar 02 23:25:17 i misread 'heroin' Mar 02 23:25:19 * Yanker is away: ?¿? be back in a while ?¿? Mar 02 23:25:29 lame script. Mar 02 23:29:36 night Mar 02 23:45:15 hello everyone. Is this the correct channel to come to if you have questions about an N800 ? Mar 02 23:45:23 probably Mar 02 23:45:31 it's pretty much the only channel :) Mar 02 23:45:43 probably not Mar 02 23:45:45 :) Mar 02 23:45:49 oh ok i wasent sure if it was the developer only channel or not ? Mar 02 23:46:08 well, they let me in, so I guess it's not devs only :D Mar 02 23:46:16 ask away Mar 02 23:46:37 This is it. Mar 02 23:46:42 is there an easy way to associate chm files to fbreader ? Mar 02 23:46:51 yes Mar 02 23:47:06 though it should do it automagically Mar 02 23:47:09 i have about 5-6 so i might get thrown out for being a pain Mar 02 23:47:43 adding extension/mimetype/action is pretty easy Mar 02 23:47:48 madamn, do you mean associate as in "open with fbreader" from the explorer, or "does fbreader handle chm files" Mar 02 23:47:52 it dont it asks what program i want to open with and i can choose fbreader but no way that i have sen to permanitly set it but i havent messedwith the cli much yet so i may miss it Mar 02 23:48:14 no i can read in fbreader i am trying to associate Mar 02 23:48:31 ive given up with that method and end up using the library Mar 02 23:48:42 its a bit of a pita, but it does remember your previous folder Mar 02 23:48:58 (plus, i read txt files as well but have them opening for edit) Mar 02 23:49:41 http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial.html#mime Mar 02 23:50:40 it's as easy as copying file and putting chm instead of other fbreader formAt Mar 02 23:51:01 oh that lookslike fun i need to setup ssh i dont wanna do that with a stylus Mar 02 23:51:08 :) Mar 02 23:51:21 send that file via bt Mar 02 23:51:26 back and forth Mar 02 23:51:27 :) Mar 02 23:51:39 dont have bt but can do it via usb or wireless Mar 02 23:51:47 usb won't do Mar 02 23:51:54 you should learn about the great ludwig von mises Mar 02 23:51:54 it's on internal flash Mar 02 23:52:29 but yes, install ssh server. it's really easy :) Mar 02 23:52:35 ok i assume i can do the same with pdf's toswitch to evince right Mar 02 23:52:50 probably Mar 02 23:54:45 thanks KotCzarny when i was talking to another dev a couple of weeks ago i thought it required a software change (to register the app within osso as handling certain mime types) i will keep hold of this Mar 02 23:55:06 lcuk: i haven't checked it Mar 02 23:55:12 but i guess it will do Mar 02 23:55:18 ok this question will most likely need to be asked elsewhere but ill ask here incase i get lucky. Is itpossible to change the cacheing in evince so it will load more pages at a time id like to set like a 10 meg buffer for it Mar 02 23:56:10 or even in the default pdf reader ? the main reason i bought this device was to be an ebook reader with web access plus i like to support open source :) Mar 02 23:56:34 probably Mar 02 23:56:38 fbreader is an open source reader - and it looks amazing Mar 02 23:56:48 too bad it can't do pdf yet. Mar 02 23:56:52 fbreader is medialibrarized :/ Mar 02 23:56:53 (its just too slow for me) Mar 02 23:56:57 can fbreader handle djvu? Mar 02 23:57:04 sometimes Mar 02 23:57:12 i had 1 load and 3 fail sofar Mar 02 23:57:27 grr i keep missing spacebar sorry Mar 02 23:57:41 Navi, it's juts as well that it can't do PDF Mar 02 23:57:51 what does fbreader read best? does it have a prefered format, and would it be easy enough to convert documents to that format? Mar 02 23:57:54 Shoehorning PDF into its viewing style wouldn't work well. Mar 02 23:57:59 HTML works best for me. Mar 02 23:58:10 HTML is nice Mar 02 23:58:11 * lcuk is flat Mar 02 23:58:12 RTF/txt/mobi/prc work well, too. Mar 02 23:58:20 you can always convert PDF to HTML too Mar 02 23:58:23 a book is about the words, not how they look Mar 02 23:58:36 unless they are not readable Mar 02 23:58:43 Meh, typography has it's place. :P Mar 02 23:58:43 lol of course Mar 02 23:59:13 KotCzarny, I fail to see why that's a bad thing. . . . Mar 02 23:59:14 i understand GeneralAntilles which is why ive grafted to get ttf fonts in (via sdl_ttf) Mar 02 23:59:20 ? Mar 02 23:59:23 Or, really, why it's relevant for an ebook reader. Mar 02 23:59:27 seriously, why would anyone create an ebook in PDF format...? Mar 02 23:59:31 and even the style of typeface, kerning, linespacing, etc have much to to with readability Mar 02 23:59:39 most computer ebooks are in pdf format Mar 02 23:59:40 Because they look really nice on the desktop. ;) Mar 02 23:59:48 because i don't like to browse for my files every time i copy them into device Mar 02 23:59:49 Look at Tor's PDF releases. Mar 02 23:59:53 90% of my ebooks are in pdf Mar 02 23:59:54 scanned images - pdf is a convenient format for paginating scanned images Mar 03 00:00:07 KotCzarny, you do realize it can auto-scan, right? Mar 03 00:00:11 they look really nice on a certain size of monitor...but horrible on everything else Mar 03 00:00:19 ga: where? Mar 03 00:00:32 Right on the first page of the prefs. . . . Mar 03 00:00:33 * johnx makes sure his ebooks are at most one translation away from html Mar 03 00:00:39 it's ui missed me Mar 03 00:00:50 guess im odd i love reading them on my nokia but it sucks waiting for it to cache pages Mar 03 00:00:52 I still don't see your point, though. Mar 03 00:00:53 the preferences page is a bit...dense Mar 03 00:01:00 PDF is stupid for the Nokia. Mar 03 00:01:09 let's see.. Mar 03 00:01:14 fbreader suffers for me by dislodging and showing a rotated block of text and library list on the main windowed screen Mar 03 00:01:33 when the ui is presented in a different orientation my eyes bleed Mar 03 00:01:43 ? Mar 03 00:01:44 What Mar 03 00:01:53 madamn, I love reading ebooks on my N800, but not being able to zoom and reflow the text is too much to give up Mar 03 00:02:04 i read rotated 90deg - fbreader shows the book at that orientation when the menus and hildon is around Mar 03 00:02:09 PDF is stupid as a format of choice for the Nokia.. but necessary since it's so saturated into everything Mar 03 00:02:29 PDF -> HTML isn't TOO hard, though. Mar 03 00:02:49 need a compressed format which keeps things together Mar 03 00:02:55 Is format preserved in going to html? Mar 03 00:02:56 KotCzarny, isn't that the point of a media library, not having to browse for your stuff? <_< Mar 03 00:03:05 pdf is actually very good at what it does, but its geared for print sized pages Mar 03 00:03:09 I've only seen PDF to Word converters that preserve format Mar 03 00:03:13 i have only tried pdf -> html one time and i lost all images in a cisco manual images are a must Mar 03 00:03:22 ok Mar 03 00:03:25 i may be blind Mar 03 00:03:34 KotCzarny, and you are. Mar 03 00:03:38 but where exactly it has 'search for books button' ? Mar 03 00:03:58 (and add them automatically) Mar 03 00:04:04 just press the left most icon twice Mar 03 00:04:10 the 3 books stacked Mar 03 00:04:27 then the 1 book Mar 03 00:04:59 the 3 books takes you to your library. then there is an add icon - this opens a file selector Mar 03 00:05:19 yes Mar 03 00:05:25 and i have to add book by book Mar 03 00:05:31 no 'add all you can find' Mar 03 00:05:39 Look at prefs. Mar 03 00:05:42 wtf. is wrong with browse dir Mar 03 00:06:02 ga: screenshot pls Mar 03 00:06:22 what i want is a way to easily browse my dirs and read what i like Mar 03 00:06:57 exactly what i just said Mar 03 00:07:05 browse - oh look its a book Mar 03 00:07:18 is there a vnc viewer for maemo? Mar 03 00:07:23 xuser: yes Mar 03 00:07:56 lcuk: it's gui is not the best in terms of intuitiviness Mar 03 00:07:57 in options, general tab has book path and "look for books in subdirectories" Mar 03 00:08:05 i agree kot Mar 03 00:08:16 KotCzarny: kk Mar 03 00:08:21 but im there for the books, the library is just that Mar 03 00:08:31 yes Mar 03 00:08:35 actually on mine, the library has filled up :) Mar 03 00:08:37 i usually put books in Books Mar 03 00:08:47 wtf is that 'library' thing Mar 03 00:08:51 just browse that dir Mar 03 00:08:53 :) Mar 03 00:08:56 additional information about books Mar 03 00:09:08 i don't need no fscking additional information Mar 03 00:09:25 the only information i need is in dir/fname.ext Mar 03 00:09:30 categories title author parts of a series format layouts indents Mar 03 00:09:46 (just click next if you dont care) Mar 03 00:09:47 and how is layout helpfull? Mar 03 00:10:55 * lcuk shrugs - go ask fbreader guy, perhaps he realised that preferences can be specific to a book Mar 03 00:11:25 still, i would be better of with mc and using fbreader as a backend for books Mar 03 00:11:28 :) Mar 03 00:11:35 *off Mar 03 00:12:01 the reader has come across many formats and has quite a following, i am sure it will be explained somewhere on their site Mar 03 00:12:09 mc? Mar 03 00:12:24 midnight commander Mar 03 00:12:28 nc clone Mar 03 00:12:43 quite powerful and convenient Mar 03 00:13:31 i agree with you, but for now - needs must Mar 03 00:13:36 ok here comes the stupid queston i have the openssh server to install via package manager but there is no default username or a root username how would i go about connecting to it Mar 03 00:13:37 nope. Mar 03 00:13:48 i will just use term -e mc Mar 03 00:13:57 madamn, it should force you to set a root pass. Mar 03 00:13:57 then add a rule for fbreader in mc Mar 03 00:13:58 :) Mar 03 00:14:03 oh ok kool Mar 03 00:14:30 and i assume root can ssh by default ? Mar 03 00:15:17 madamn, yes Mar 03 00:15:42 you can set a user password after you log in as root or use public key authentication Mar 03 00:15:47 eww thats a security hole but its a portable device so i wont complain Mar 03 00:16:10 that root can ssh by default? Mar 03 00:16:19 madamn: nope, ssh isn't installed by default Mar 03 00:16:24 it's your decision to use it Mar 03 00:16:42 KotCzarny: what's the name for the vnc app? Mar 03 00:16:43 johnx, with openssh default config yes Mar 03 00:16:59 lol no that root can my freebsd box has a 45+ char pass for root everything is done via sudo lol Mar 03 00:17:06 xuser: don't remember, i have seen it though while googling Mar 03 00:17:14 kk Mar 03 00:17:34 madamn: then you know how to secure it Mar 03 00:17:39 vnc app is called vncviewer Mar 03 00:17:43 no problem Mar 03 00:18:05 :) i will eventually i am assuming once i getinto the cli a whole new world will open up to me Mar 03 00:18:20 yes Mar 03 00:18:29 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/vncviewer/ Mar 03 00:18:35 yes, finding new and exciting ways to break things :P Mar 03 00:19:01 breaking things is ok Mar 03 00:19:09 at least you learn something Mar 03 00:19:09 :) Mar 03 00:19:10 i am just excited i may be able to make icons for some shell scripts to run Mar 03 00:19:48 when i install a new app, does metalayer-crawler need to be on for it to be in my menu? Mar 03 00:19:50 KotCzarny, agreed Mar 03 00:19:54 and its a portable device everything is backed up incase of bricking its what a reflash and copy to mmc entire reload is what 1 hour max its worth breaking a few dozen times for experience Mar 03 00:20:12 cLin, metalayer crawler has nothing to do with the Application Menu. Mar 03 00:20:21 The Application Menu scans .desktops. Mar 03 00:20:24 madamn, if you boot off of sd you can just rsync your whole filesystem into place if you break things Mar 03 00:20:26 What did you install? Mar 03 00:20:34 lcuk: yeah I was looking only in the AM but it isn't there. Mar 03 00:20:48 try 'other' Mar 03 00:20:54 On that note, has anybody put together a nice script or somesuch for creating a .jffs2 image of the rootfs? Mar 03 00:20:55 nothing, was just wondering the side affects of disabling it Mar 03 00:20:58 it usually puts unknown icons there Mar 03 00:21:11 boot off of mmc o now that sounds like fun and probly faster with a class 6 sd card. Mar 03 00:21:20 Not really Mar 03 00:21:27 speed isn't an issue Mar 03 00:21:31 I've never noticed a difference, anyway. Mar 03 00:21:33 it's the fun factor Mar 03 00:21:47 theoretically it's a little faster Mar 03 00:21:58 what does it use ext2? reiser? Mar 03 00:22:03 * KotCzarny has a class6 card Mar 03 00:22:08 it's slower than internal flash Mar 03 00:22:09 madamn, ext3 or ext2 Mar 03 00:22:13 at least after hparm -t Mar 03 00:22:14 xuser_, if you have default repositories configured it will not display, i think it might however be in the extras but you will have to see, or just get the deb Mar 03 00:22:16 hdparm Mar 03 00:22:27 The key is that it's not a compressed filesystem. Mar 03 00:22:35 is there a decent walkthrough anywhere ? and is it offically supported ? Mar 03 00:22:47 officially supported by nokia? hell no Mar 03 00:22:53 lol Mar 03 00:22:53 madamn: maemo.org Mar 03 00:22:54 howto available? yes Mar 03 00:23:09 google maemo boot mmc Mar 03 00:24:03 /dev/mtdblock4: Mar 03 00:24:03 Timing buffered disk reads: 54 MB in 3.07 seconds = 17.59 MB/sec Mar 03 00:24:07 (internal flash) Mar 03 00:24:10 will it use the full 256 meg of flash as ram when doing mmc boot ? Mar 03 00:24:16 /dev/mmcblk0: Mar 03 00:24:16 Timing buffered disk reads: 16 MB in 3.37 seconds = 4.75 MB/sec Mar 03 00:24:20 class6 8gb sd card Mar 03 00:24:20 madamn, er no Mar 03 00:24:26 flash != RAM Mar 03 00:24:49 oh well would be a good place to put /swap then Mar 03 00:24:55 don't Mar 03 00:25:00 you don't need swap Mar 03 00:25:02 :) Mar 03 00:25:15 unless you plan on running apach+mysql there Mar 03 00:25:22 madamn, you realize that flash memory has a limited number of write cycles, yes? Mar 03 00:25:30 nah just opera and 10-20meg ebooks Mar 03 00:25:43 then you don't need swap Mar 03 00:25:49 install ssh and see for yourself Mar 03 00:35:35 ok whats the nokia equivlent to ifconfig ? Mar 03 00:35:45 ifconfig Mar 03 00:35:51 Mar 03 00:36:22 ifconfig: command not found i thought thought would be part of the core Mar 03 00:36:32 madamn, are you root? Mar 03 00:36:46 is ifconfig in user's path on your freebsd box? Mar 03 00:36:47 lcuk: you can add the garage.maemo.org repositories to the AM? Mar 03 00:37:01 prolly not let me see if su works Mar 03 00:37:25 madamn, sudo gainroot or ssh root@localhost Mar 03 00:37:31 iwconfig wroks without root just to view interfaces Mar 03 00:37:40 ifconfig should be the same Mar 03 00:37:45 /sbin/ifconfig Mar 03 00:38:07 it's just that /sbin isn't in user's $PATH Mar 03 00:39:22 anyone using xmms? Mar 03 00:39:31 some people, apparently Mar 03 00:39:39 i installed the skin plugin but i cant find them Mar 03 00:43:23 lol enableRD mode if you want to break your device. that is so comforting Mar 03 00:43:38 just install becomeroot or ssh root@localhost Mar 03 00:44:02 no need to screw around with rd mode Mar 03 00:47:50 can anyone point me in the right direction to solve: "hildon-widgets/hildon-program.h: No such file or directory" when trying to compile a program in scratchbox? Mar 03 00:49:24 interesting, I have hildon-program.h in my scratchbox but it's not under hildon-widgets Mar 03 00:50:00 maybe it was located there for bora, and moved for chinook? Mar 03 00:50:21 where is it located for you? Mar 03 00:50:39 libhildon1-dev: /usr/include/hildon-1/hildon/hildon-program.h Mar 03 00:50:52 yawn Mar 03 00:51:17 same for me Mar 03 00:51:28 is there a newsreader available as pan does does not seem to want to install Mar 03 00:51:39 ah, there it is, thanks Mar 03 00:51:59 LastOfTheEld, dpkg -S is your friend :) Mar 03 00:52:31 or find Mar 03 00:52:32 :) Mar 03 00:53:16 yeah, i've only been using linux for a few months, so i'm still learning the ropes ;p Mar 03 00:53:25 thanks for the input, though Mar 03 00:53:55 sure :) Mar 03 00:54:04 that would be 5E Mar 03 00:54:06 ;) Mar 03 00:59:52 checking if you are too dumbing dumb for the dummy... no Mar 03 00:59:54 o.O Mar 03 01:01:39 bah I'm getting libfakeroot: connect: Connection timed out Mar 03 01:01:55 during sdk install Mar 03 01:01:59 :P Mar 03 01:02:05 somthing lags Mar 03 01:02:06 :P Mar 03 01:02:19 I've tried 4 times Mar 03 01:02:25 try tomorrow Mar 03 01:02:29 ok Mar 03 01:03:27 its jsut impossible to do anything with my n800 this w/e :( Mar 03 01:03:30 how frustrating Mar 03 01:03:43 life, find a mirror Mar 03 01:12:25 yeah, that sdk install is a pain in the ass.. the script doesn't work out of the box Mar 03 01:12:57 and mirroring would be against the EULA I assume Mar 03 01:15:34 freelikegnu: you are spending too much time blending /me shakes head Mar 03 01:18:36 what do you mean "blending"? Mar 03 01:18:56 putting things in a blender and turning it on Mar 03 01:20:37 I have no clue, ask freelikegnu. He is the one saying the word 'blend' seemingly out of context. Mar 03 01:20:52 :P Mar 03 01:20:58 ipod blending was cool Mar 03 01:22:38 so here's hoping someone can help again Mar 03 01:22:56 you still have outstanding balance with us Mar 03 01:23:03 when trying to run the maemo_hello program, i'm getting the error GLIB WARNING ** Gtk - cannot open display: Mar 03 01:23:22 export DISPLAY=:0 Mar 03 01:23:22 did you run xephyr as suggested? Mar 03 01:23:32 (or :2) Mar 03 01:24:07 yeah, i've got xephyr running, and its currently displaying the initial screen Mar 03 01:24:18 alright, then export DISPLAY=:2 Mar 03 01:24:39 yeah, i did that, followed by af-sb-init.sh start Mar 03 01:25:02 then past message AFTER ":" Mar 03 01:25:03 ah, what command line did you run xephyr with? Mar 03 01:25:15 after the : is nothing, the line ends with the : Mar 03 01:25:28 then something is b0rken Mar 03 01:25:30 i ran Xephyr in a terminal on my machine, and ran the other commands within scratchbox Mar 03 01:25:50 install gcc and other tools on nokia then Mar 03 01:25:54 and compile it there Mar 03 01:25:55 ;) Mar 03 01:25:59 xhost+ Mar 03 01:26:07 right, what was the full line for xephyr? "xephyr arg1 arg2" Mar 03 01:26:30 Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac Mar 03 01:27:20 alright, humor me and in scratchbox: try export DISPLAY=:2 then run your command again Mar 03 01:29:02 ...i like your humor Mar 03 01:29:10 that makes no sense why that works Mar 03 01:29:10 works? Mar 03 01:29:15 but it does, and thank you : ) Mar 03 01:29:18 you typoed earlier? Mar 03 01:29:20 learn *nix Mar 03 01:29:28 maybe missed a : ? Mar 03 01:29:39 maybe wrong window Mar 03 01:29:40 ;) Mar 03 01:29:43 anyways, no worries Mar 03 01:29:46 nope, same exact command, used the 'up' to bring it up Mar 03 01:29:59 heh, I don't know then Mar 03 01:30:44 well now that i've got a program running, time to learn how to manipulate them. if i have any more trouble, i know where to go. thanks again, guys! Mar 03 01:31:38 sure. Just write us lots of cool apps. :D Mar 03 01:33:28 If you don't, we'll hunt you down. Mar 03 01:34:13 completely understandable; i'll do my best Mar 03 01:38:12 what are the rootstraps? Mar 03 01:38:27 i'd downloading them.. and installing them, not sure what they do for me Mar 03 01:38:42 save some time Mar 03 01:38:44 from what I understand, they provide kind-of a chroot environment Mar 03 01:39:01 i thought scratchbox did that Mar 03 01:39:12 scratchbox is general tool Mar 03 01:39:24 rootstraps are maemo related Mar 03 01:39:41 or "whatever you're using scratchbox to develop for" related Mar 03 01:39:50 yes Mar 03 01:40:48 i notice the docs are out of order.. step 2: configure targets, step 3: download rootstraps Mar 03 01:41:07 they are not Mar 03 01:41:16 you're reading wrong docs though Mar 03 01:41:36 When I'm configuring the targets, the rootstraps aren't there yet Mar 03 01:41:40 what i did was: 1/ run 'install sb script' 2/ 'install maemo sdk' script Mar 03 01:41:42 and done Mar 03 01:41:52 yeah, doesn't work for me Mar 03 01:41:57 1st script works Mar 03 01:42:00 then you're doing it wrong Mar 03 01:42:02 apparently Mar 03 01:42:17 but 2nd script fails the same way every time. This is my 2nd time repeating the process Mar 03 01:42:20 or maemo.org is not accessible from where you are... Mar 03 01:42:44 The second script fails because "a scratchbox session is running" when indeed it's not Mar 03 01:43:08 everything downloads okay Mar 03 01:43:22 don't question error messages. Mar 03 01:43:40 so I'm doing the SDK install manually.. which has a screwed up order Mar 03 01:43:41 it won't work that way Mar 03 01:44:02 you can configure the target before you install the rootstrap Mar 03 01:44:15 the way scratchbox works isn't exactly straightforward Mar 03 01:44:44 Yeah, in the GUI i can configure the target, as long as I cancel before the rootstrap business. Mar 03 01:44:58 From the CLI, the configuration fails Mar 03 01:51:04 another oversight: the docs say execute "apt-get update", w/out indicating what target to do that in. Mar 03 01:51:25 both targets Mar 03 01:51:28 It works in the i386 target, but not the arm target because the binaries won't run Mar 03 01:51:43 Do I need qemu at this point? Mar 03 01:51:52 they should run. qemu should be included Mar 03 01:51:59 it sounds like something is pretty screwed up Mar 03 01:53:09 So when I'm in the arm target, should qemu be running automatically? Mar 03 01:53:14 yes Mar 03 01:53:22 that's most of the point of scratchbox Mar 03 01:56:40 I think I see what happened.. I used sb-menu to setup the arm target, and I think the qemu command didn't make it into the config Mar 03 01:57:00 So I blew away the arm target, and now setup w/ commandline Mar 03 01:57:48 yeah, that fixed it Mar 03 01:57:59 you have to have a binfmt_misc setup for qemu Mar 03 01:58:02 which may have been missing Mar 03 02:00:17 so do you folks develop in the i386 target most of the time? and then just use the arm target for a testing? Mar 03 02:00:36 * KotCzarny mounts sb dir on nokia and just runs from there Mar 03 02:00:45 sshfs ftw! Mar 03 02:00:56 most of my stuff is just recompiles so I just stay on the ARMEL target Mar 03 02:01:00 my impression is that most people don't test in scratchbox at all Mar 03 02:01:23 also vnc is handy Mar 03 02:01:31 if you don't want to drain your nokia's battery Mar 03 02:01:50 with screen off it drains very little power Mar 03 02:04:58 3\ Mar 03 02:17:38 anyone wants to see retu-adc visualization? Mar 03 02:17:40 :> Mar 03 02:17:49 * KotCzarny plays with gnuplot Mar 03 02:21:17 gnuplot on the NIT? reall? Mar 03 02:21:22 why not? Mar 03 02:21:39 i was wondering if any good graphical calcs were on there Mar 03 02:21:53 compile one yourself, and there wil be Mar 03 02:36:35 anyone here have any experience with some of the older trends for handheld devices.. kdrive.. microwindows, fltk etc? Mar 03 02:36:57 kdrive is alive and well Mar 03 02:37:03 it looks like some of these projects have died, but I suspect that they may have been a bit leaner compared to some of the trends today Mar 03 02:37:04 a n00bish question: is GDK the "interface" between GTK and the Xserver? (at least in the version of GTK used by chinook) Mar 03 02:37:06 fltk is still used somewhat Mar 03 02:37:29 I think microwindows stalled, IIRC Mar 03 02:37:40 last update i see on the site is 2003 Mar 03 02:37:47 MipsIrv, for kdrive? Mar 03 02:37:59 too bad.. the last update was improved NXLIB compatability Mar 03 02:38:14 i don't know the status of kdrive.. i haven't touched it in a while Mar 03 02:38:18 http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/batt2gp.png Mar 03 02:38:29 the last embedded device I worked on was an agenda vr3 and an nec mobilepro 800 Mar 03 02:38:31 anyone knows meaning of retu-adc fields on n800? Mar 03 02:38:51 MipsIrv, who's website was last updated in 2003? Mar 03 02:39:05 microwindows Mar 03 02:39:07 ah Mar 03 02:39:26 yeah, the processing power and RAM/storage available made more full-featured things more attractive Mar 03 02:39:31 xomap and xfbdev are based on kdrive Mar 03 02:39:44 and xephyr is as well I think Mar 03 02:40:44 I think someone used fltk to write some apps for the N8x0 Mar 03 02:46:15 so what about enhancements such as XIP.. still in use or just pointless with newer hardware? Mar 03 02:46:43 xip is there Mar 03 02:46:55 ie available in the kernel Mar 03 02:47:05 i just realized I installed scratchbox on a small drive.. didn't realize I would want it to grow. Suppose I move the whole tree elsewhere.. are there any interdependancies on the location of the scratchbox? Mar 03 02:47:25 I'll probably make a symbolic link just to be safe Mar 03 02:47:38 unixSnob, that's what I did Mar 03 02:47:52 the init script to set up binfmt, etc wants it to be /scratchbox Mar 03 02:47:56 a symlink works fine Mar 03 02:48:05 ok, thanks Mar 03 02:50:37 MipsIrv, a quick google search turns up mumblings about it being hard to implement xip and on a writeable fs Mar 03 02:50:56 and a writeable root fs seems to be the trend (for better or worse) Mar 03 02:51:23 ext2 has xip Mar 03 02:51:55 yeah, I thought I saw that... Mar 03 02:52:03 well, hard doesn't mean impossible Mar 03 02:52:05 also there's an option to build xipImage Mar 03 02:52:27 though you will need to store it uncompressed Mar 03 02:56:31 *nod* that stuff i'm used to Mar 03 02:56:43 trying to remember how to manipulate jffs2 and mtd devices and the like Mar 03 02:56:49 :) Mar 03 02:56:58 dd? Mar 03 02:57:48 well.. i pulled down the latest 2006SE image and wanted to snoop around the initfs and rootfs on my x86 box.. can't quite figure out how to mount the jffs2 image via a loop device Mar 03 02:58:23 just copy it off the device itself Mar 03 02:58:24 :) Mar 03 02:59:09 does anyone know offhand how much of the nokia image is proprietary? in the terms of service it talks about derivative works, etc and has some pretty stringent restrictions.. so far though, I have yet to see anything that is proprietary.. Mar 03 02:59:15 *nod* that's an option Mar 03 02:59:33 various kernel blobs Mar 03 02:59:52 and various software binaries to interact with those blobs (and other) Mar 03 03:15:50 MipsIrv, mount the jffs2 with mtd-ram module in Linux Mar 03 03:16:10 lots of the GUI apps are actually binary-only Nokia-proprietary Mar 03 03:16:20 including browser UI, image viewer, media player Mar 03 03:16:30 lots of the dsp stuff is proprietary Mar 03 03:16:31 but there are 'replacements' Mar 03 03:16:32 :) Mar 03 03:16:37 KotCzarny, no Mar 03 03:16:44 there aren't in most cases Mar 03 03:17:16 well, i can compile most of the apps i have tried Mar 03 03:17:22 and run them successfully Mar 03 03:17:29 but the source isn't available to lots of those apps Mar 03 03:17:38 like xzgv? Mar 03 03:17:41 or mplayer? Mar 03 03:17:42 :) Mar 03 03:17:51 like the navigation plugins Mar 03 03:17:54 or the desktop clock Mar 03 03:17:55 window maker/fluxbox Mar 03 03:18:07 dammit, sdk is available Mar 03 03:18:21 so what they have their own apps closed? Mar 03 03:18:50 the only thing that bothers me are drivers Mar 03 03:19:11 well, what I and other people people are trying to do is get the maemo stuff into debian Mar 03 03:19:31 shouldn't it be other way around? Mar 03 03:19:37 why? Mar 03 03:19:44 bcause debian is open/free ? Mar 03 03:20:36 if the maemo stuff can be integrated into debian, then you have instant access to anything available for debian Mar 03 03:20:56 i don't understand that logic Mar 03 03:20:57 :) Mar 03 03:21:22 wouldn't the effect be: maemo stuff would be available to debian ? Mar 03 03:21:25 :) Mar 03 03:21:32 that would be nice as well Mar 03 03:21:53 but also, it would be the best of both wolds for the N8x0 Mar 03 03:22:37 all the debian software + all of the maemo software available on the N8x0 is the goal Mar 03 03:22:55 right now it can be a huge pain to get something from Debian onto the tablets Mar 03 03:23:04 at the moment i can't see any gain of maemo software Mar 03 03:23:49 there will be no pain if you run debian apps Mar 03 03:24:02 you mean Nokia's stuff or maemo apps in general? Mar 03 03:24:21 i mean, ol'good gnu/gpl Mar 03 03:24:32 where is the home.html located on our n800? Mar 03 03:24:42 clin: it's in the config Mar 03 03:25:03 you can change yor homepage Mar 03 03:25:07 Maemo apps are a lot more finger friendly, and generally better optimized to have a smaller memory footprint Mar 03 03:25:28 johnx, that's just a matter of one app Mar 03 03:26:01 and as far memory footprint goes.. metalayer-crawl :P Mar 03 03:26:15 KotCzarny, you're not making much sense Mar 03 03:26:21 i do Mar 03 03:26:29 maemo has some bloat too Mar 03 03:26:44 yes, but much less than gnome, xfce, or even kde Mar 03 03:26:49 not true. Mar 03 03:26:56 uhm...no Mar 03 03:27:00 there's fluxbox Mar 03 03:27:12 that's just a window manager Mar 03 03:27:20 what do you use for web browsing under fluxbox? Mar 03 03:27:31 so what? matchbox uses 'plugins' too Mar 03 03:27:46 firefox or links -g Mar 03 03:28:08 funny conversation Mar 03 03:28:11 :P Mar 03 03:28:17 wanna join? :P Mar 03 03:28:17 * johnx shakes head Mar 03 03:28:24 Tama^3, someone multiplied you by a Tama? Mar 03 03:28:30 no thanks Mar 03 03:28:41 by a Tama^2 Mar 03 03:28:48 zomg Mar 03 03:28:58 me, myself & irene? Mar 03 03:28:59 :) Mar 03 03:28:59 You ate Tama^2! Mar 03 03:29:18 KotCzarny, anyways, I think we can agree that Nokia's closed source stuff is annoying. Mar 03 03:29:27 I am disparately looking for someone to divide me or apply a log() Mar 03 03:29:27 johnx: yes Mar 03 03:29:40 * KotCzarny hits tama with a log Mar 03 03:29:43 speaking of annoyances Mar 03 03:29:45 Tama^3/Tama Mar 03 03:29:55 thanks Mar 03 03:29:57 wewt Mar 03 03:30:40 johnx: at least nokia played nice and published a sdk Mar 03 03:30:42 you know the system UI flickers when it appears, the notifications for instance Mar 03 03:30:53 archos is a nice toy too Mar 03 03:31:02 KotCzarny: are you trolling? :P Mar 03 03:31:07 but closed Mar 03 03:31:08 * Navi bets he is Mar 03 03:31:30 i just played with an archos 704 for a while Mar 03 03:31:32 I'd love to make the flickering go away Mar 03 03:31:36 cute interface Mar 03 03:31:41 very usable Mar 03 03:31:48 but unfortunatelly no sdk Mar 03 03:31:54 yes, Nokia is more friendly than most, but still annoying in their own way Mar 03 03:32:08 so one would have to pay for a new codecs Mar 03 03:32:55 seriously, archos ui is very well designed Mar 03 03:33:05 if you get a chance, play with it for a while Mar 03 03:33:30 laso finger optimized Mar 03 03:33:33 also Mar 03 03:33:48 * Tama^2 raises eyebrow Mar 03 03:34:01 can be a good source of inspiration for a media player author Mar 03 03:34:02 :> Mar 03 03:34:58 unfortunatelly after looking for a software or sdk and hitting the wall i decided it's not for me Mar 03 03:35:26 and it's scaling alghorithm reminds me of p1mmx videos ;) Mar 03 03:35:27 anyone have any suggestions on decent pim applications that can sync with desktop? Mar 03 03:35:44 that last part would be the sticking point Mar 03 03:35:48 MipsIrv: I wish I knew one Mar 03 03:36:12 pimlico is nice Mar 03 03:36:24 pimP my nokia? Mar 03 03:36:25 ;) Mar 03 03:36:25 but there hasn't been any stable builds of the sync tool Mar 03 03:36:40 I've been meaning to build it myself Mar 03 03:36:47 but I'm lazy Mar 03 03:37:54 does pimlico work? when I looked a month ago it did not Mar 03 03:38:07 yes, it works :P Mar 03 03:38:10 what about it didn't work? Mar 03 03:38:18 they have one click installs on their site Mar 03 03:38:33 which does not work for me O.o Mar 03 03:39:46 Heh Mar 03 03:39:48 I will try again Mar 03 03:39:48 Try it out now Mar 03 03:45:41 they install now Mar 03 03:45:47 the repo was broken before.. Mar 03 03:45:56 :3 Mar 03 03:46:02 pimlico is nice Mar 03 03:46:10 one happy pimPer Mar 03 03:46:14 thank you Navi û.U Mar 03 03:46:40 I only use the calendar app tough Mar 03 03:46:42 though* Mar 03 03:47:06 it's like using office for wordpad Mar 03 03:47:07 :) Mar 03 03:47:32 too bad wordpad isn't part of Office Mar 03 03:47:57 wordpad app is replaced when you install office Mar 03 03:49:10 Notice: Undefined offset: 0 in /usr/share/php/midcom/lib/org/openpsa/products/handler/group/list.php on line 71 Mar 03 03:49:18 who broke maemo.org ? Mar 03 03:50:01 No one broke maemo.org Mar 03 03:50:17 http://maemo.org/downloads/downloads/OS2008/ Mar 03 03:50:56 too bad the right address is http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/ Mar 03 03:51:07 :) Mar 03 03:51:34 still, it should return 404, not 500 Mar 03 03:51:36 * briand sighs, loudly Mar 03 03:51:58 briand, sup? Mar 03 03:52:33 trying to get scratchbox set up on one of my machines here... Mar 03 03:53:09 Hit it with a stick. Mar 03 03:53:20 installed well, and trying to proceed to installing the SDK, but cannot login to the scratchbox. says I don't have an active target in scratchbox chroot Mar 03 03:53:27 GeneralAntilles: i'm tempted. Mar 03 03:54:12 the sdk script fails me 2 Mar 03 03:54:18 had to do it manually Mar 03 03:54:22 hey Mar 03 03:54:23 script works for me. Mar 03 03:54:36 mtr? Mar 03 03:54:37 :> Mar 03 03:54:47 i can't even run the script, which (if I read it correctly) I should do from within the scratchbox... but I cannot get into the scratchbox Mar 03 03:54:58 nah Mar 03 03:55:09 anyone kno when that youtube Mar 03 03:55:16 and you created a user acct? Mar 03 03:55:19 ..which, I assume, is where i'd need to be to set an active target with sb-menu... but if I can't get there, I can't do that so that I can get there. Mar 03 03:55:24 canola plugin wll be ready Mar 03 03:56:06 After you have downloaded the script to your local machine, run the Mar 03 03:56:06 script outside of the Scratchbox environment: Mar 03 03:56:14 what instruction are you following? Mar 03 03:56:20 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.0.1/INSTALL.txt Mar 03 03:57:00 (and be sure to provide the -s switch to that script) Mar 03 03:57:29 (if you b0rken sb, yes) Mar 03 03:57:49 i had to run .sh -s /scratchbox in order to get to the next failure point Mar 03 03:58:27 unless you install manually Mar 03 03:58:28 at which point i did it all manually in a slightly different order than what's documented in the INSTALL.txt file Mar 03 03:58:42 then you will have to do some commands inside sb Mar 03 03:59:12 dospod, it'll be ready when it's ready Mar 03 03:59:40 :] i want it now Mar 03 03:59:48 As do I Mar 03 04:01:11 no, it fails. "Check for scratchbox sessions running..." followed immediately by "Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed! (repeated 4 times) Mar 03 04:01:20 hmm i wonder if i buy a tv tuner if ill be able to stream video to my n800 Mar 03 04:01:21 vdso Mar 03 04:01:24 turn it off Mar 03 04:01:31 (google for maemo vdso) Mar 03 04:01:33 :) Mar 03 04:02:07 Run "echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled" as root. Mar 03 04:02:13 it'll work then. Mar 03 04:02:15 dospod: if you set it up and also set up a streaming device (such as gstreamer), then yes. Mar 03 04:02:17 and feed google with error messages Mar 03 04:02:52 navi: you're making it easy for him :P Mar 03 04:02:58 would it be easy to stream live tv Mar 03 04:03:13 dospod: depending how much bandwidth you have Mar 03 04:03:16 :> Mar 03 04:03:25 wel Mar 03 04:03:27 tools are available Mar 03 04:03:29 it Mar 03 04:03:46 would be local streaming Mar 03 04:03:47 thank you, Navi... it seems to be running, now... Mar 03 04:03:48 even mencoder can do the work Mar 03 04:03:52 usually Mar 03 04:03:59 and geez my Mar 03 04:04:18 (compiled with v4l that is) Mar 03 04:04:38 touch screen is messed up Mar 03 04:04:46 briand, is it? Mar 03 04:04:48 er Mar 03 04:04:50 dospod, is it? Mar 03 04:05:09 yes lo Mar 03 04:05:14 lol * Mar 03 04:05:29 sometimes it only looks like it's messed up, but it actually isn't :3 Mar 03 04:05:41 I "sold" an n800 yesterday, by logging into my mythtv box and streaming one of the recordings there to my n800. Mar 03 04:06:05 what size? Mar 03 04:06:07 haha Mar 03 04:06:14 the onscreen keyboard is screwy Mar 03 04:06:23 dospod, more details? Mar 03 04:06:59 just recalirated it too Mar 03 04:07:13 What do you mean it's screwy? Mar 03 04:07:40 ih Mar 03 04:07:44 k Mar 03 04:08:11 it not clicking Where i want it tl Mar 03 04:08:12 try drawing in maemopadplus Mar 03 04:08:17 :) Mar 03 04:08:19 and does it seem heat related Mar 03 04:08:21 ? Mar 03 04:08:23 or recalibrating Mar 03 04:10:07 it prob heat since its every now and then Mar 03 04:10:51 brb Mar 03 04:11:41 this looks like a nice app for the DS http://www.collectingsmiles.com/colors/ Mar 03 04:12:07 ds? Mar 03 04:12:51 ?? maybe he means d10s ? Mar 03 04:13:04 nintendo ds Mar 03 04:13:13 :) Mar 03 04:13:20 or, maybe johnx has the answer Mar 03 04:13:23 ;) Mar 03 04:14:32 A recommended setup is a Nintendo DS Lite, a R4 Revolution flash-cart and 1GB MicroSD Flash Memory Card which in total costs about US $200. Mar 03 04:15:40 Colors is a nice drawing app Mar 03 04:15:40 looks like there is a java port of the app Mar 03 04:15:45 it's limited, hwever. Mar 03 04:15:47 however* Mar 03 04:15:53 http://masscat.afraid.org/ninds/colors_ds.php Mar 03 04:16:00 is there java for n8x0 ? Mar 03 04:16:05 there is mypaint for maemo Mar 03 04:16:24 the thing that annoys me the most about Colors is the lack of an undo function Mar 03 04:16:41 don't make any mistakes, then. :) Mar 03 04:16:47 I try. Mar 03 04:16:52 yeah, play safe Mar 03 04:16:53 don't we all Mar 03 04:17:06 KotCzarny: there is, somewhat Mar 03 04:17:29 usable? Mar 03 04:17:50 google for jalimo and see yourself Mar 03 04:19:47 mypaint looks nice too Mar 03 04:20:25 mypaint sucks after a while Mar 03 04:20:34 memory usage? Mar 03 04:21:19 a few general annoyances Mar 03 04:21:52 memory usage could be one. Zoom out too much and crash. Out of memory. Mar 03 04:22:03 enable swap Mar 03 04:22:04 :) Mar 03 04:22:07 disable undo Mar 03 04:22:25 swap's taking the 128MB that the tablet came with Mar 03 04:22:54 and disabling undo only helps a tad Mar 03 04:23:11 s/that/minisd that/ Mar 03 04:23:15 you can have as much swap as you want Mar 03 04:23:20 mkswap/swapon Mar 03 04:23:48 I don't care :P I'm using as much as I want to use. Mar 03 04:24:55 aha :P Mar 03 04:25:10 you are using as much as you can Mar 03 04:25:11 :) Mar 03 04:25:34 s/can/want/ Mar 03 04:26:38 heres the java colors! http://masscat.afraid.org/ninds/colors_ds.php Mar 03 04:26:56 gnite folks Mar 03 04:27:01 'night Mar 03 04:27:20 Night Mar 03 04:31:37 http://www.m90.org/gallery/image/no%20doze.jpg Mar 03 04:31:41 chickens. Mar 03 04:34:00 * Navi waits for the quake 2 base folder to copy over Mar 03 05:40:04 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11824 Mar 03 05:40:05 hehe Mar 03 05:40:54 KotCzarny, what's funny about that? Mar 03 05:41:19 'bug that corrupted mmc while wifi being used, unfixed for a year' Mar 03 05:41:20 :) Mar 03 05:41:31 known & unfixed for a year Mar 03 05:42:12 it was a long time until someone tracked it down Mar 03 05:45:10 looks like n770 was/is bugridden Mar 03 05:45:36 Nokia didn't exactly have the best track record with it Mar 03 05:45:56 like trying to find a replacement stylus Mar 03 05:45:57 * doc|home stabs Mar 03 05:46:03 The 770 was like a test-the-water release Mar 03 05:46:17 doc|home, I know what you mean Mar 03 05:46:21 * KotCzarny got back his stylus from heating apliance, hoooray! Mar 03 05:46:22 I gave up long ago Mar 03 05:46:23 doc|home, heh Mar 03 05:46:26 I'm going to find a place and make up a batch Mar 03 05:46:30 :D Mar 03 05:46:30 now i have 2 still Mar 03 05:47:12 I need to find 2 first, so I can clone them (without the nokia logo of course) Mar 03 05:47:27 will probably be all plastic too, but better than nothing, right? Mar 03 05:47:33 sure Mar 03 05:47:34 right Mar 03 05:47:41 or grow nails Mar 03 05:47:48 pointy ones! Mar 03 05:47:51 they work well too Mar 03 05:48:02 don't have to be pointy Mar 03 05:48:15 I still want a full stainless steel stylus (sans the tip) Mar 03 05:48:18 screen is sensitive enough Mar 03 05:48:31 steel would damage the screen Mar 03 05:49:01 [ 0.570312] Bad eraseblock 575 at 0x047e0000 Mar 03 05:49:06 that's scary. Mar 03 05:49:11 [ 0.664062] 0x00280000-0x00480000 : "initfs" Mar 03 05:49:17 and it's located in initfs Mar 03 05:49:18 KotCzarny, [23:43:52] I still want a full stainless steel stylus (sans the tip) Mar 03 05:49:20 * KotCzarny shrugs Mar 03 05:49:34 navi: it's late Mar 03 05:49:46 You're a vampire, why would you care? Mar 03 05:49:52 Late is good for you. Mar 03 05:50:02 bloody eyes Mar 03 05:50:18 Bloody is right, you've been eating too many virgins. Mar 03 05:50:30 only one Mar 03 05:50:39 Navi: I do like that idea myself, but would be expensive Mar 03 05:50:47 (full stainless steel) Mar 03 05:50:53 (sans the tip) Mar 03 05:50:55 steel would be heavy too Mar 03 05:51:05 cost more in materials and assembly Mar 03 05:51:09 Navi: yeah Mar 03 05:51:15 I like a bit of weight in my hand Mar 03 05:51:23 * doc|home waits for the penis jokes Mar 03 05:52:13 I'd buy one just for style Mar 03 05:52:31 penis? Mar 03 05:52:33 o.O Mar 03 05:52:40 I'd do it myself, but I don't have any equipment easily accessible to me Mar 03 05:53:18 I used to bum off of my uncle's crap, but he moved away. Mar 03 05:53:31 * doc|home nods Mar 03 05:53:49 * KotCzarny is doing discharge test Mar 03 05:54:00 goes well Mar 03 05:55:12 20h by now Mar 03 05:55:28 with wifi on (but idle most of the time) and screen off Mar 03 05:56:03 only six more days to go! Mar 03 05:56:11 nah Mar 03 05:56:23 i guess it will turn itself off tomorrow Mar 03 05:56:42 anyone know how to check battery level from command line? Mar 03 05:56:47 any /sys interface? Mar 03 05:57:07 (i'm using modified retu-adc now Mar 03 05:57:09 ) Mar 03 05:57:22 google maemo battery status Mar 03 05:58:34 [mbm], I do find the battery status to be odd and incredibly misleading Mar 03 05:58:35 ;) Mar 03 05:59:11 well, it's just reporting the raw data. There's not a secret source of accurate data you can get at Mar 03 05:59:40 a lot of mobile devices with lots of fluctuations in power draw have problems estimating charge remaining Mar 03 05:59:54 but still, how to do that? Mar 03 05:59:57 (from console) Mar 03 06:00:14 google Mar 03 06:00:19 it's late Mar 03 06:00:23 first result Mar 03 06:00:29 you can hit I'm feeling lucky Mar 03 06:00:36 KDE Settings Recommendations? - Page 5 - Internet Tablet Talk Forums ? Mar 03 06:04:25 nvm. Mar 03 06:04:28 off to sleep. Mar 03 06:17:03 Are any core dumps saved on the internal flash? Mar 03 06:35:47 hmm Mar 03 06:36:04 so does anyone know of any stopwatch applications? Mar 03 06:36:47 stopwatch? There was one on the garage, I believe. Mar 03 06:38:11 EruditeHermit, https://garage.maemo.org/projects/stopwatch/ Mar 03 06:38:50 its OS2007 Mar 03 06:39:21 tried installing it already Mar 03 06:43:24 EruditeHermit, I'll build an updated package when I get the chance Mar 03 06:43:38 for now, just try to get a hold of the author and get him to do it Mar 03 07:37:50 anyone know what ecore is? Mar 03 07:41:46 I have a suspicion, let me check Mar 03 07:41:54 where have you encountered it? Mar 03 07:42:22 Traceback (most recent call last): Mar 03 07:42:22 File "/usr/bin/canola", line 18, in ? Mar 03 07:42:22 import ecore Mar 03 07:42:26 trying to start canola Mar 03 07:42:28 http://wiki.enlightenment.org/index.php/Ecore Mar 03 07:42:31 there you go Mar 03 07:44:37 shouldnt it come with canola Mar 03 07:44:41 i dont get why iwould get that error Mar 03 07:44:57 it does come with canola Mar 03 07:45:03 hrm. Mar 03 07:45:19 uninstall/re-install time? Mar 03 07:45:22 yep Mar 03 07:46:28 * Navi wonders why it comes with canola Mar 03 07:46:54 it shouldnt? Mar 03 07:47:10 because canola is a decent demo of an e based app Mar 03 07:50:05 I wonder why with cairo and pango already supported one needs to fish 'E' out Mar 03 07:51:04 it is a serious question, is there a significant advantage? Mar 03 07:52:03 Tama^2, to what, using E? Mar 03 07:52:17 yes, in using E Mar 03 07:52:41 over GDK, Cairo & friends Mar 03 07:52:52 Well, over all of those Mar 03 07:53:20 E provides a fast-as-hell widget tookit that allows you to have nice effects on sucky hardware Mar 03 07:53:40 ok, so gtk sucks Mar 03 07:53:56 gtk has it's place Mar 03 07:54:01 in the toilet? Mar 03 07:54:04 xD Mar 03 07:54:06 Lol Mar 03 07:54:25 I used GTK in the past and never used E Mar 03 07:54:43 Seriously though, E17 runs great on older hardware and still manages to look excelent Mar 03 07:54:53 * doc|home is using E17 right now, nice Mar 03 07:55:08 I'm using it right now, but not for any of the fancy effects Mar 03 07:55:17 I don't really care for them >_> Mar 03 07:55:19 but considering that the system UI flickers and behaves like a drunken monkey and that the only decently looking media player on the platform uses a different toolkit I am starting to wonder... Mar 03 07:57:38 Considering E17 is the Duke Nukem Forever of the WM world, I wouldn't worry too much about it Mar 03 07:58:00 Besides, what UI flickering? Mar 03 07:58:07 Doesn't flicker for me >_> Mar 03 07:59:07 doesn't it flicker when the notification popups appear? Mar 03 07:59:18 or when dialogs adjust their size? Mar 03 07:59:47 I can see them redrawing Mar 03 08:00:16 notification popups? Mar 03 08:00:20 mmmm Mar 03 08:00:42 the "updating" bubble coming up on the upper right corner Mar 03 08:01:04 No, not for me :/ Mar 03 08:02:03 you are telling me that you do not see half drawn dialogs for a split second on your n800? Mar 03 08:02:05 >.< Mar 03 08:02:45 Tama^2, I know what you mean. the window rectangle is drawn before the pixmaps I think Mar 03 08:02:58 is that what it looks like to you? Mar 03 08:03:08 * johnx wonders why they went with a pixmap theme engine... Mar 03 08:03:21 the pixmaps as well as text Mar 03 08:04:53 no way around text, but why pixmaps? X| Mar 03 08:05:10 I'm out for the night Mar 03 08:05:37 'night Mar 03 08:06:50 night Mar 03 08:07:09 what do you mean "no way around text"? Mar 03 08:07:11 :) Mar 03 08:07:47 You can use pixmaps instead of text! Mar 03 08:08:11 I mean, text is slow to render and kind of a necessity Mar 03 08:08:21 pixmap gtk themes, not so much Mar 03 08:09:04 but one can freeze the whole window, update text and thaw it, right? Mar 03 08:09:24 shouldn't that fix the flickering? Mar 03 08:13:53 dunno Mar 03 08:41:28 Morning, all Mar 03 08:50:40 what needs to be installed in maemo 3.x scratchbox to use pygtk? Mar 03 08:51:01 libgtk2.0-dev is installed; python, python2.3 are already available Mar 03 08:52:06 I think, something like python2.x-gtk2 Mar 03 08:53:08 johnx, i need to add anything to repos? Mar 03 08:53:40 I honestly don't know for maemo 3.x Mar 03 08:53:57 apt-cache search python gtk2 Mar 03 08:53:58 johnx, apt-cache search python only returns python, python2.3, python2.3-tk, python2.3-dev, libxml2-dbg, idle-python2.3 Mar 03 08:54:06 then yes Mar 03 08:54:16 maybe maemo extras? Mar 03 08:54:45 is there any reason in particular you're still using maemo 3.x? Mar 03 08:55:13 johnx, have N800; and this build is quite old, so still using it Mar 03 08:55:28 johnx, can chinook be used for N800? Mar 03 08:55:34 yes, of course :) Mar 03 08:55:41 johnx, i see Mar 03 08:55:46 the N810 and the N800 are basically the same hardware Mar 03 08:55:56 johnx, but, GPS is additional in N810 Mar 03 08:56:12 yes, but that's fairly minor Mar 03 08:56:18 I have an N800 running OS2008 and scratchbox with chinook Mar 03 09:01:35 morning Mar 03 09:52:12 good morning Mar 03 10:23:03 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:04 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:04 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:05 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:07 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:09 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:11 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:13 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:15 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:17 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:19 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:21 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:23 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:25 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:27 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:29 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:31 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:33 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:35 http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ Mar 03 10:23:35 good morning Mar 03 10:43:42 morning Mar 03 10:44:02 is there some RightWay(tm) to listen to headphone button events? Mar 03 10:44:25 if there is I do not know it Mar 03 10:44:37 but I think it must be a dbus event Mar 03 10:45:19 yes, I see messages on dbus Mar 03 10:45:24 and hal reports events too.. Mar 03 10:45:43 just wondering if there is some standard that should be used **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 03 10:59:56 2008