**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 01 02:59:56 2008
Apr 01 03:06:25 <woodwizzle> can you uninstall official aps?
Apr 01 03:06:29 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 01 03:06:38 <woodwizzle> oh cool
Apr 01 03:07:12 <KotCzarny> but some of them are critical
Apr 01 03:07:22 <KotCzarny> and you better know what you are doing
Apr 01 03:07:28 <woodwizzle> I don't have an n810, but I'm considering it, however I know I'd be using unofficial GPS and Media players, I wanted to make sure I could install those and uninstall the originals
Apr 01 03:07:49 <woodwizzle> otherwise I'd run out of space on the built in 2gigs
Apr 01 03:07:56 <KotCzarny> lol
Apr 01 03:08:06 <KotCzarny> out of space?
Apr 01 03:08:11 <GeneralAntilles> The internal card isn't used for application installation.
Apr 01 03:08:29 <GeneralAntilles> Well, except for caching by Application manager.
Apr 01 03:08:41 <woodwizzle> oh, apps are installed on the sd card?
Apr 01 03:08:48 <GeneralAntilles> Everything install onto the internal 256MB flash.
Apr 01 03:08:49 <GeneralAntilles> No
Apr 01 03:09:05 <woodwizzle> oh, doesn't that run out quick?
Apr 01 03:09:08 <KotCzarny> woodwizzle: some are putting data there
Apr 01 03:09:14 <KotCzarny> like maemo-mapper
Apr 01 03:09:24 <KotCzarny> but it's all application configurable
Apr 01 03:09:29 <GeneralAntilles> There are three things in the N810: the internal 256MB of flash for the OS and applications, the 2GB internal card (soldered on SD card), and the external minisd slot
Apr 01 03:09:29 <KotCzarny> most often
Apr 01 03:09:31 <GeneralAntilles> Not particularly
Apr 01 03:09:37 <GeneralAntilles> It really depends on what you install
Apr 01 03:10:04 <GeneralAntilles> You can always boot from a partition on either one of the cards.
Apr 01 03:10:11 <GeneralAntilles> or extend the rootfs to them
Apr 01 03:10:20 <GeneralAntilles> So it's really not an issue.
Apr 01 03:14:03 <woodwizzle> Cool cool.
Apr 01 03:25:18 <woodwizzle> It is posible to play ogg and flac by installing an external package right?
Apr 01 03:25:25 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 01 03:25:41 <KotCzarny> treat it as a laptop
Apr 01 03:26:11 <KotCzarny> with linux of course
Apr 01 03:26:12 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 03:26:32 <KotCzarny> and go to maemo.org
Apr 01 03:26:44 <KotCzarny> for info and software packages
Apr 01 03:26:45 <woodwizzle> Yeah I'm there now.
Apr 01 03:26:58 <KotCzarny> also to garage.maemo.org
Apr 01 03:27:07 <KotCzarny> it's more experimental software
Apr 01 03:27:15 <oob> linux!? but our Novell salesman assured us that Linux doesn't have approval from Microsoft so we shouldn't use it
Apr 01 03:27:43 <KotCzarny> life
Apr 01 03:27:56 <KotCzarny> people hack iphones
Apr 01 03:28:21 <KotCzarny> people hack psps
Apr 01 03:29:39 <woodwizzle> Can it run standard elf binaries? I'd like to put adom on there ;)
Apr 01 03:29:52 <KotCzarny> standard, no, because it's arm
Apr 01 03:30:06 <KotCzarny> but you shouldn't have much trouble compiling the sources for it
Apr 01 03:31:06 <woodwizzle> adom isn't open source :(
Apr 01 03:31:19 <woodwizzle> my one free as in beer but not as in speech weak spot
Apr 01 03:31:26 <KotCzarny> then you can ask the author to cross compile for armel
Apr 01 03:31:52 <woodwizzle> I'll probably be fine with wesnoth, openttd, and nethack =)
Apr 01 03:32:20 <KotCzarny> you can try running dosemu
Apr 01 03:32:25 <KotCzarny> and dos version of adom..
Apr 01 03:32:28 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 03:32:43 <KotCzarny> if you are really desperate
Apr 01 03:32:44 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 03:37:17 <woodwizzle> thats pretty cool
Apr 01 03:37:50 <woodwizzle> I had been saving up for an eee pc, but I'm thinking about getting an n810 now instead.
Apr 01 03:37:59 <KotCzarny> why not n800 ?
Apr 01 03:38:09 <GeneralAntilles> How important is pocketability?
Apr 01 03:39:30 <woodwizzle> I'm not sure. I have a laptop that is about 13.3in. I know I want smaller and more linux friendly than that.  I'm not sure if an eee is small enough though. I can see some situations where I would only have a pocketable device that I would use
Apr 01 03:40:10 <KotCzarny> how much cpu will you need?
Apr 01 03:40:24 <woodwizzle> Maybe settling a bet in a bar. Looking up an obscure 8-ball rule on the net. (though this of course requires available wifi). I like the idea of it as a portable multimedia player too.
Apr 01 03:40:25 <KotCzarny> ie. do you plan playing 3d games?
Apr 01 03:40:26 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 01 03:40:27 <GeneralAntilles> The Eee isn't at all pocketable, and its formfactor greatly limits (read: eliminates) any real mobile usability.
Apr 01 03:40:40 <woodwizzle> Though the 8gb limit isn't quite the ammount I would like
Apr 01 03:40:42 <GeneralAntilles> ebooks are awesome, too.
Apr 01 03:40:50 <GeneralAntilles> SD cards will get bigger
Apr 01 03:40:51 <KotCzarny> erm. what 8gb limit?
Apr 01 03:40:55 <GeneralAntilles> The 16s will be out soon.
Apr 01 03:41:08 <woodwizzle> I read that the n810 could only handle an 8gb card
Apr 01 03:41:11 <GeneralAntilles> 32s by the end of summer.
Apr 01 03:41:12 <KotCzarny> old news
Apr 01 03:41:13 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 03:41:18 <GeneralAntilles> That's what Nokia tested it with
Apr 01 03:41:19 <KotCzarny> it will support ANY sdhc card
Apr 01 03:41:30 <KotCzarny> (roughly)
Apr 01 03:41:32 <GeneralAntilles> The hardware limit is 2048GB
Apr 01 03:41:39 <KotCzarny> because there may be incompatibilities
Apr 01 03:41:47 <KotCzarny> but if storage space is an issue get n800
Apr 01 03:41:50 <KotCzarny> (2 sd slots)
Apr 01 03:41:53 <KotCzarny> regular ones
Apr 01 03:41:56 <KotCzarny> not mini sd
Apr 01 03:42:08 <KotCzarny> so: cheaper sd cards
Apr 01 03:42:09 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 03:42:18 <KotCzarny> and more storage space
Apr 01 03:42:42 <rm_you> n800 > n810 imo
Apr 01 03:42:46 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 01 03:42:53 <woodwizzle> Yeah I saw that, I dunno if I'm willing to give up the keyboard though. Also I like GPS a lot.
Apr 01 03:42:59 <KotCzarny> n810 is a little step backward and to the side
Apr 01 03:43:05 <GeneralAntilles> The GPS on the N810 sucks.
Apr 01 03:43:05 <KotCzarny> get bt gps
Apr 01 03:43:08 <rm_you> woodwizzle: buy an external bluetooth GPS for $60
Apr 01 03:43:09 <KotCzarny> and you're done
Apr 01 03:43:11 <GeneralAntilles> Better off with a Bluetooth GPS
Apr 01 03:43:18 <rm_you> it's WAY better than the n810 internal
Apr 01 03:43:52 <GeneralAntilles> That has a quarter of the acquisition time, can get and hold a lock indoors, and has much better accuracy overall
Apr 01 03:43:55 <woodwizzle> Is the n800 pocketable? I know the 810 is smaller
Apr 01 03:44:00 <KotCzarny> not much
Apr 01 03:44:00 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, and, optionally, run at 5Hz
Apr 01 03:44:02 <rm_you> woodwizzle: i do it
Apr 01 03:44:03 <KotCzarny> they're comparable
Apr 01 03:44:05 <GeneralAntilles> They're both plenty pocketable.
Apr 01 03:44:12 <GeneralAntilles> N800 is mostly longer.
Apr 01 03:44:13 <KotCzarny> few mm at most
Apr 01 03:44:15 <woodwizzle> run at 5hz?
Apr 01 03:44:21 <GeneralAntilles> As opposed to 1Hz
Apr 01 03:44:28 <woodwizzle> what do you mean?
Apr 01 03:44:36 <GeneralAntilles> Update rate
Apr 01 03:44:38 <GeneralAntilles> of the GPS
Apr 01 03:44:40 <woodwizzle> ah
Apr 01 03:44:47 <rm_you> woodwizzle: i pocket my n800 in a normal pair of jeans...
Apr 01 03:44:52 <GeneralAntilles> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2258/1618802881_97ed377747.jpg
Apr 01 03:45:19 <GeneralAntilles> Both are perfectly pocketable.
Apr 01 03:46:00 <woodwizzle> Its about $150 cheaper too
Apr 01 03:46:16 <GeneralAntilles> $200 USD is the price I would shoot for for the N800.
Apr 01 03:46:31 <rm_you> yeah, but an n800 for $200, bt GPS/Keyboard = ~$100 extra
Apr 01 03:46:40 <rm_you> and you get a better GPS and keyboard
Apr 01 03:46:44 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 03:46:49 <KotCzarny> kb is 25$
Apr 01 03:46:53 <woodwizzle> amason has it fo 241
Apr 01 03:47:00 <rm_you> i said "~"
Apr 01 03:47:00 <Navi> you can get a usb keyboard for 15
Apr 01 03:47:01 <KotCzarny> VERY good gps is 95$
Apr 01 03:47:11 <KotCzarny> bt kb (25$)
Apr 01 03:47:11 <rm_you> VERY good gps is $60
Apr 01 03:47:12 <woodwizzle> a bt keyboard is not pocketable
Apr 01 03:47:22 <rm_you> woodwizzle: this one is
Apr 01 03:47:22 <KotCzarny> rm_you: chipset?
Apr 01 03:47:30 <KotCzarny> woodwizzle: i disagree
Apr 01 03:47:37 <KotCzarny> google for igo ultra-slim
Apr 01 03:47:57 <rm_you> KotCzarny: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16858702003
Apr 01 03:48:14 <rm_you> i have this one, it's amazing
Apr 01 03:48:24 <GeneralAntilles> iTrek is boring
Apr 01 03:48:28 <KotCzarny> "waiting for newegg.com..."
Apr 01 03:48:29 <rm_you> cold-lock in < 30s, hot-lock in < 10s
Apr 01 03:48:30 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 03:48:33 <GeneralAntilles> Get one of the i-blues
Apr 01 03:48:42 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: cheap and nice
Apr 01 03:48:51 <GeneralAntilles> i-blues offer 5Hz
Apr 01 03:49:00 <rm_you> linky?
Apr 01 03:49:18 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: i don't know how GPS could get better than this thing >_>
Apr 01 03:49:32 <GeneralAntilles> They're the same chipset
Apr 01 03:49:41 <rm_you> ok
Apr 01 03:49:46 <rm_you> so how is that one better? :P
Apr 01 03:49:51 <GeneralAntilles> 5hz
Apr 01 03:49:58 <GeneralAntilles> or solar with the 757
Apr 01 03:50:01 <rm_you> how does that make gps better? :P
Apr 01 03:50:04 <GeneralAntilles> or internal memory with the 747
Apr 01 03:50:13 <GeneralAntilles> 5hz gives you better accuracy.
Apr 01 03:50:24 <KotCzarny> sdio based gps would be a hit
Apr 01 03:50:25 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 01 03:50:25 <rm_you> this thing is ridiculously accurate
Apr 01 03:50:28 <rm_you> like i said...
Apr 01 03:50:34 <rm_you> i don't know how GPS could get better than this thing >_>
Apr 01 03:50:52 <GeneralAntilles> 5hz > 1hz
Apr 01 03:50:54 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.amazon.com/i-Trek-M7-Bluetooth-Receiver-15hrs/dp/B0013CHFK2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1207021818&sr=8-1
Apr 01 03:51:00 <rm_you> but... it tracks me within like 1 foot
Apr 01 03:51:16 <GeneralAntilles> So does mine.
Apr 01 03:51:18 <rm_you> ...
Apr 01 03:51:19 <rm_you> right
Apr 01 03:51:23 <rm_you> so how is that better?!
Apr 01 03:51:23 <elb> you don't have any GPS tracking within 1 foot
Apr 01 03:51:28 <elb> if it's telling you that, it's lying
Apr 01 03:51:32 <GeneralAntilles> 5hz updates more often.
Apr 01 03:51:45 <GeneralAntilles> So you get cleaner tracks and better accuracy through turns.
Apr 01 03:51:52 <woodwizzle> which ones cheaper
Apr 01 03:51:55 <rm_you> elb: I walk outside, i look at gps, i look at my surroundings, i determine it's within +/- 1 foot
Apr 01 03:52:08 <rm_you> elb: it didn't tell me that, I decided that :P
Apr 01 03:52:08 * Proteous plops out his epeen to join the debate
Apr 01 03:52:27 <GeneralAntilles> The map isn't accurate enough to determine that kind of accuracy. :P
Apr 01 03:52:39 <elb> if you're talking about relative GPS (with a fixed ground station for reference) you should be able to get fractions of an inch
Apr 01 03:52:56 <Proteous> I'm talking about second cousin GPS
Apr 01 03:52:58 <elb> but GPS signals simply don't have enough accuracy to give you 1' resolution, even with corrective data from WAAS etc.
Apr 01 03:52:59 <Proteous> does that count?
Apr 01 03:53:11 <rm_you> google sattelite map shows me when i'm under my porch, which is about 3ft wide, lol
Apr 01 03:53:20 <KotCzarny> proteous: you track your cousin?
Apr 01 03:53:22 <KotCzarny> O.o
Apr 01 03:53:24 <GeneralAntilles> woodwizzle, get the M7 from semsons here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0013CHFK2/ref=dp_olp_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1207021818&sr=8-1
Apr 01 03:53:25 <KotCzarny> sick!
Apr 01 03:53:29 <Proteous> yeah, with relative GPS
Apr 01 03:53:39 <elb> rm_you: any particular given location might be within 1' at any particular given time
Apr 01 03:53:43 <KotCzarny> relatively sick!
Apr 01 03:53:48 <Proteous> sic
Apr 01 03:53:49 <GeneralAntilles> Proteous has a sick, sick mind.
Apr 01 03:54:00 <elb> but GPS doesn't give you a single location, it gives you a probability distribution for a location
Apr 01 03:54:08 <Proteous> I could be on mars
Apr 01 03:54:12 <Proteous> GPS wouldn't tell me that
Apr 01 03:54:36 <elb> and the best you can hope for is about 9'
Apr 01 03:54:50 <elb> (with 95% probability, if I recall correctly)
Apr 01 03:54:51 <rm_you> i have no idea what the statistics on this thing are... i'm just telling you my real-world observations
Apr 01 03:54:58 <Proteous> depends on if GPS has been degraded by the military
Apr 01 03:55:09 <elb> it hasn't
Apr 01 03:55:09 <rm_you> and frankly, i don't *care* about the specs, as long as the real-world observations are this good :P
Apr 01 03:55:20 <woodwizzle> how big are those recievers? Could I fit the reciever and the n800 in the same pocket or same case (preferably with a belt clip)
Apr 01 03:55:25 <Proteous> if it can direct me to the fridge to find beer then I don't care
Apr 01 03:55:27 <elb> if you stand on your porch for a few minutes, you should see yourself drifting out from under it
Apr 01 03:55:33 <Proteous> (sometimes I get lost)
Apr 01 03:55:44 <Proteous> I had that happen to me elb
Apr 01 03:55:46 <elb> anyway, you're welcome to believe whatever you want -- just don't try to count on it for resolution better than a few yards
Apr 01 03:55:54 <Proteous> but I had eaten some moldy stuff from the fridge right before
Apr 01 03:56:01 <GeneralAntilles> woodwizzle, I usually carry mine in a watchpocket when I take it with me.
Apr 01 03:56:24 <woodwizzle> You mean that little mini jean pocket?
Apr 01 03:56:28 <woodwizzle> Thats not bad at all
Apr 01 03:56:31 <GeneralAntilles> Right.
Apr 01 03:56:38 <Proteous> I keep my phone in there when I have me 770 in my pocket
Apr 01 03:57:03 <Proteous> and I'm talking like a pirate it seems
Apr 01 03:57:06 <oob> so you do GeneralAntilles, so you do; http://www.eholster.com/eholsters1.html
Apr 01 03:57:17 <woodwizzle> I have yet to find a n800 for $200
Apr 01 03:57:23 <Proteous> arr, I keeps me phone in theres when I be out to sea
Apr 01 03:57:25 <KotCzarny> woodwizzle: froogle
Apr 01 03:57:26 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 03:57:26 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
Apr 01 03:57:26 <rm_you> wow, it DOES fit in my watch-pocket
Apr 01 03:57:27 <rm_you> crazy :P
Apr 01 03:57:34 <GeneralAntilles> Stylish and functional!
Apr 01 03:57:35 <KotCzarny> i have seen one for ~190
Apr 01 03:57:36 <rm_you> i never knew what that stupid tiny pocket was for :P
Apr 01 03:57:48 <GeneralAntilles> Watches, of course!
Apr 01 03:57:49 <KotCzarny> rm_you: it's for condoms
Apr 01 03:57:51 <KotCzarny> of course
Apr 01 03:57:58 <rm_you> woodwizzle: about two weeks ago i saw one for $180
Apr 01 03:57:59 <GeneralAntilles> Some people like to use it for change. <_<
Apr 01 03:58:03 <elb> that dude is a nerd
Apr 01 03:58:13 <elb> I demand a shoulder holster, though
Apr 01 03:58:37 <GeneralAntilles> elb, that would be me, except it'd be a 9mm in there. :P
Apr 01 03:58:45 <elb> well, I carry a .40
Apr 01 03:58:45 <oob> a nerd sporting the very latest in portable haute couture
Apr 01 03:58:48 <elb> but yeah
Apr 01 03:58:53 <rm_you> woah, sweet: http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-miniSync-Retractable-Charge-Cable/dp/B000UOO7NW/ref=pd_sim_dbs_e_title_5
Apr 01 03:59:08 <elb> dressing up just isn't the same with an IWB
Apr 01 03:59:26 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Apr 01 04:04:21 <woodwizzle> How good is the bluetooth on these things?
Apr 01 04:04:41 <woodwizzle> I mean can I use a stereo bluetooth headset and a bluetooth gps and keyboard all at the same time?
Apr 01 04:05:45 <elb> gps is very low rate
Apr 01 04:06:11 <elb> bluetooth is designed to handle more than one headset
Apr 01 04:06:25 <elb> now, I dunno about the Nokia itself
Apr 01 04:08:24 <oob> i've had a bluetooth odb-II tool, phone and keyboard connected concurrently without encountering any issues
Apr 01 04:08:40 <oob> i'd say the odb-II is quite high rate
Apr 01 04:08:52 <woodwizzle> Nice
Apr 01 04:09:45 <woodwizzle> the n800 can do 2 sdhc cards too. Is 16gb the biggest out now? I could get 2 of those for about $60 each. and That gives me the same amount of space as the $500 i touch
Apr 01 04:10:00 <rm_you> oob: where did you buy your odb-II?
Apr 01 04:10:18 <rm_you> woodwizzle: i think 32gb will be out soon...
Apr 01 04:10:41 <Proteous> I modded a retractable USB cable to make it more pocketable: http://mike.ogaz.org/files/usbretract5.jpg
Apr 01 04:10:50 <oob> rm_you, http://www.kbmsystems.net/
Apr 01 04:11:05 <GeneralAntilles> obd-ii is quite cool
Apr 01 04:11:11 <GeneralAntilles> Don't think the data rate is high at all, though.
Apr 01 04:11:17 <rm_you> yeah, i need one...
Apr 01 04:11:21 <rm_you> my car does... odd things sometimes
Apr 01 04:11:25 <woodwizzle> what is obd-ii ?
Apr 01 04:11:39 <oob> no? it seems to poll a lot of sensors
Apr 01 04:11:49 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe somewhere in the range of 50Kbps?
Apr 01 04:11:54 <oob> woodwizzle, an interface to onboard car computers
Apr 01 04:11:55 <GeneralAntilles> Depends on the car, though, I suppose.
Apr 01 04:12:05 <woodwizzle> oh, i know what you mean.
Apr 01 04:12:05 <GeneralAntilles> oob, it's not like there's a lot of data there.
Apr 01 04:12:08 <rm_you> woodwizzle: you plug it into most modern cars (they have a strange looking jack somewhere under a plastic panel usually) and it reads all your car's sensors
Apr 01 04:12:12 <oob> true
Apr 01 04:12:38 <oob> woodwizzle, http://openbossa.indt.org/carman/
Apr 01 04:12:40 <rm_you> about a year ago i had 4 of 5 of my cylinders misfiring >_<
Apr 01 04:13:34 <Proteous> the wierdest thing was that his engine just has 3 cylinders
Apr 01 04:14:19 <woodwizzle> Man that is wicked!
Apr 01 04:14:32 <rm_you> lol
Apr 01 04:14:39 <rm_you> wow, this is expensive >_> $170
Apr 01 04:14:51 <oob> woodwizzle, until someone hacks your n810 and tells your automatic that it in fact has a manual transmission..
Apr 01 04:14:57 <rm_you> lol
Apr 01 04:19:00 <oob> rm_you, compared to some of the other odb-II interfaces it's better because it's very short
Apr 01 04:19:14 <rm_you> yes
Apr 01 04:19:28 <rm_you> the other ones i saw were all serial interface with bluetooth attachments sold seperately
Apr 01 04:20:02 <GeneralAntilles> I paid $100 for mine.
Apr 01 04:20:09 <GeneralAntilles> Just a rs-232 adaptor, basically.
Apr 01 04:20:24 <oob> this is good for instance in an audi s8, as it fits in the port under the ashtray and doesn't block the sliding door from closing
Apr 01 04:20:48 <rm_you> oob: you just leave it in there all the time?
Apr 01 04:20:57 <rm_you> or just use it for periodic maintenance checks?
Apr 01 04:21:11 <KotCzarny> yawn
Apr 01 04:21:18 <KotCzarny> doh, it's late again
Apr 01 04:22:09 <Proteous> don't you hate that
Apr 01 04:22:15 <KotCzarny> a little
Apr 01 04:22:22 <GeneralAntilles> People with S8s? Yes. :P
Apr 01 04:22:51 <oob> rm_you, the carman application provides realtime monitoring, which is detail that's pertinent when driving, so I have it on when i'm in the car
Apr 01 04:22:59 <woodwizzle> How good is the battery life on an n800 compared to an n810?
Apr 01 04:23:02 <oob> ha!
Apr 01 04:23:09 <KotCzarny> woodwizzle: similiar
Apr 01 04:23:12 <Navi> Does carman still perform horribly on the N8X0s?
Apr 01 04:23:23 <KotCzarny> they're nearly the same hw
Apr 01 04:23:33 <Proteous> one has a keyboard on GPS
Apr 01 04:23:43 <KotCzarny> disfunctional gps
Apr 01 04:23:47 <Proteous> heh
Apr 01 04:23:47 <KotCzarny> so it doesn't count
Apr 01 04:24:02 <KotCzarny> and kb takes nearly no power
Apr 01 04:24:03 <GeneralAntilles> woodwizzle, they're the same.
Apr 01 04:24:07 <Proteous> it has cell assisted GPS but doesn't have cell phone functionality
Apr 01 04:24:07 <woodwizzle> ok
Apr 01 04:24:08 <KotCzarny> unless you count leds
Apr 01 04:24:09 <GeneralAntilles> The guts aren't really different.
Apr 01 04:24:26 <GeneralAntilles> Navi, haven't tried it with OS2008 yet
Apr 01 04:24:30 <GeneralAntilles> I suspect it'll be better.
Apr 01 04:24:48 <GeneralAntilles> It wasn't actually "horrible" in OS2007 either way
Apr 01 04:24:55 <Proteous> ramping up the processor speed never helped battery life before...
Apr 01 04:25:22 <GeneralAntilles> They have frequency scaling now.
Apr 01 04:25:25 <KotCzarny> but dsp is lowered
Apr 01 04:25:27 <rm_you> Proteous: actually, it ends up being similar... higher cpu for shorter time, vs lower cpu for longer time
Apr 01 04:25:28 <oob> navi - i've only used it on os2008 so can't compare but anecdotally, i find the performance acceptable
Apr 01 04:25:32 <GeneralAntilles> So, most of the time, it's actually running a lot slower than OS2007.
Apr 01 04:25:56 <rm_you> also, yes, good cpu scaling now...
Apr 01 04:25:57 <Proteous> I see
Apr 01 04:26:21 <GeneralAntilles> OS2007 was 330MHz all the time.
Apr 01 04:26:35 <GeneralAntilles> Now we're 165MHz most of the time with trips to 400MHz
Apr 01 04:26:35 <Proteous> damn 330 haters
Apr 01 04:26:47 <KotCzarny> 330/220
Apr 01 04:26:58 <GeneralAntilles> Navi, think any performance issues were really ones with the slow serial interface that is OBD-II, anyway.
Apr 01 04:27:00 <Proteous> 330MHz all the time was good enough for OS2007, it good enough for you!
Apr 01 04:27:08 * KotCzarny disabled that mode and is 400/133 now
Apr 01 04:27:50 <Proteous> I found a trick to get my 770 to run at 0Mhz
Apr 01 04:27:52 <KotCzarny> rm_you: you mean overclocking to 500mhz would consume same power?
Apr 01 04:27:53 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 04:27:55 <Proteous> I just leave it on for a day
Apr 01 04:28:32 <rm_you> KotCzarny: no :P lol
Apr 01 04:29:44 <KotCzarny> ok, time for some c coding
Apr 01 04:29:45 <rm_you> KotCzarny: assuming the same task though, the same number of CPU cycles will be required in the long run, so if you need 5000 cpu cycles to complete a calculation, it will run at 400mhz for a shorter time than on 330mhz... so even though it draws more power per time unit, it runs for less time units :P so it is close to even generally
Apr 01 04:30:06 <KotCzarny> rm_you: i was kidding :)
Apr 01 04:30:14 <rm_you> yeah, and i was feeling long-winded :P
Apr 01 04:30:17 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 04:30:37 <GeneralAntilles> Race-to-idle
Apr 01 04:30:40 <GeneralAntilles> Is the concept.
Apr 01 04:30:51 <GeneralAntilles> Get down to the lowest voltage as quickly as possible.
Apr 01 04:31:11 * KotCzarny runs his pentium-m at 0.7v all the time
Apr 01 04:31:31 <KotCzarny> well, 0.732
Apr 01 04:31:38 <rm_you> the same thing applies to laptop harddrives... for a long time everyone had 5400rpm drives, because they were lower power... but they also need to spin longer... so it really doesn't make a power difference. though, there is a slight heat difference <_<
Apr 01 04:31:46 * Proteous just does his binary calculations on a adder he built from legos
Apr 01 04:32:07 <KotCzarny> rm_you: i have swapped hdd for a ide--double cf solution
Apr 01 04:32:08 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 04:32:19 <KotCzarny> *an
Apr 01 04:32:33 <KotCzarny> less power, less noise
Apr 01 04:32:45 * GeneralAntilles smashes Proteous's legos.
Apr 01 04:32:50 <KotCzarny> and less capacity
Apr 01 04:32:53 <rm_you> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcDshWmhF4A :P
Apr 01 04:32:54 <KotCzarny> but 12gb is enough
Apr 01 04:32:55 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 04:33:00 <woodwizzle> Has anyone installed wesnoth on their maemo device?
Apr 01 04:33:12 <opendeep> hi
Apr 01 04:33:25 * Proteous uses fruitloops on toothpicks for memory, it's non volitile, until he gets too hungry
Apr 01 04:33:26 <KotCzarny> shouldn't it be 'openwide' ?
Apr 01 04:41:41 <woodwizzle> Which is better the I.Trek m5+ or the M7?
Apr 01 04:41:49 <woodwizzle> they look real similar to me
Apr 01 04:41:57 <KotCzarny> then take cheaper
Apr 01 04:44:06 <GeneralAntilles> M7
Apr 01 04:44:08 <GeneralAntilles> Duh
Apr 01 04:44:22 <woodwizzle> I'll prolly be fine with 16gb until the 32gb comes out. Then in the end I'd have 48 =)
Apr 01 04:44:40 <KotCzarny> only if you get n800
Apr 01 04:45:36 <woodwizzle> Yeah, well it looks like I'll be going that way
Apr 01 04:45:51 <KotCzarny> you may wait for 810 successor though
Apr 01 04:46:01 <woodwizzle> When would that be announced?
Apr 01 04:46:06 <KotCzarny> who knows
Apr 01 04:46:10 <woodwizzle> ugh
Apr 01 04:47:28 <woodwizzle> 48-64gb would be more than enough for me, and its more than I could get with an eee with its one slot. the external gps ain't all that bad, especially since its a better quality device
Apr 01 04:47:37 <woodwizzle> who makes the best n800 case?
Apr 01 04:48:09 <KotCzarny> get a case that will fit n800 and gps/kb
Apr 01 04:48:33 <woodwizzle> KotCzarny: Do you know of one?
Apr 01 04:48:37 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 01 04:48:46 <woodwizzle> the few cases i've seen so far don't look to have room for the gps
Apr 01 04:48:51 <KotCzarny> some people suggested harddrive cases
Apr 01 04:48:57 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 04:49:26 <GeneralAntilles> woodwizzle, case logic has a portable harddrive case that if perfect for N800 + iGo
Apr 01 04:49:30 <Italodance> hi guys :D
Apr 01 04:49:40 <GeneralAntilles> or N800 + GPS, cables, memory cards, headset, etc.
Apr 01 04:50:00 <GeneralAntilles> It's in with the hard drives at best buy
Apr 01 04:50:04 <GeneralAntilles> so you can go look at it
Apr 01 04:50:14 <GeneralAntilles> The DS cases aren't bad for the N800, though, either.
Apr 01 04:50:50 <woodwizzle> is this the igo you're talking about? http://www.amazon.com/Stowaway-Ultra-Slim-Bluetooth-Blackberry-Handhelds/dp/B0002OKCXE/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1207025384&sr=8-3
Apr 01 04:51:09 <BugBlue> moin
Apr 01 04:52:28 <KotCzarny> i have this one
Apr 01 04:52:37 <KotCzarny> works hum ok ;)
Apr 01 04:53:05 <KotCzarny> most probably key lag is because of bt power saving on the nokia
Apr 01 04:53:26 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
Apr 01 04:59:02 <woodwizzle> can the n800 do video chat with skype?
Apr 01 04:59:07 <KotCzarny> nope
Apr 01 04:59:18 <KotCzarny> but with gizmo probably yes
Apr 01 04:59:18 <woodwizzle> Arrrgggh!!!
Apr 01 04:59:28 <woodwizzle> All my friends are on skype
Apr 01 04:59:29 <KotCzarny> gizmo is standard sip client
Apr 01 04:59:34 <KotCzarny> well
Apr 01 04:59:41 <KotCzarny> camera on nokias suck anyway
Apr 01 04:59:43 <KotCzarny> trust me
Apr 01 04:59:44 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 04:59:56 <woodwizzle> Yeah but its better than nothing
Apr 01 05:00:07 <woodwizzle> how good is the still camera? is it better than a camera phone?
Apr 01 05:00:23 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 01 05:00:34 <KotCzarny> depends
Apr 01 05:00:44 <KotCzarny> but i'll give it 3.5/10
Apr 01 05:00:51 <woodwizzle> lol
Apr 01 05:01:55 <woodwizzle> Its so nice to  have so many device in 1. But 3rd rate gps. Crummy photo quality, etc makes it almost worth while to just get seperate devices
Apr 01 05:02:03 <woodwizzle> not to mention I gotta carry my phone with me too
Apr 01 05:02:17 <KotCzarny> it's not a phone
Apr 01 05:02:19 <KotCzarny> remember
Apr 01 05:02:25 <woodwizzle> i know
Apr 01 05:02:28 <KotCzarny> many people try to treat it as a phone
Apr 01 05:02:32 <woodwizzle> but dammit its nokia
Apr 01 05:02:32 <KotCzarny> and give low ratings
Apr 01 05:03:13 <KotCzarny> well, i have n-gage anyway
Apr 01 05:03:14 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 05:03:25 <woodwizzle> nice
Apr 01 05:03:34 <KotCzarny> classic of course
Apr 01 05:03:36 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 05:05:03 <woodwizzle> Its still cheaper than an iTouch in the end. Even with the external blue tooth and buying the mem cards to make it the same size
Apr 01 05:05:20 <KotCzarny> and you can reuse bt and cards later
Apr 01 05:05:26 <Italodance> KotCzarny i like n-gage :D
Apr 01 05:05:26 <woodwizzle> And portable wesnoth makes me very happy
Apr 01 05:06:28 <woodwizzle> Are there any must-have accessories that I haven't thought of?
Apr 01 05:06:38 <KotCzarny> maybe external battery?
Apr 01 05:06:42 <woodwizzle> that'll i end up having to buy later
Apr 01 05:06:51 <woodwizzle> does it have that option???
Apr 01 05:07:04 <KotCzarny> it takes 5V
Apr 01 05:07:26 <KotCzarny> so anything that can provide 5v via standard plug should work i think
Apr 01 05:07:35 <KotCzarny> haven't tested it though
Apr 01 05:07:53 <woodwizzle> You woulda tested it if it was a gotta have =)
Apr 01 05:08:15 <KotCzarny> at 100% cpu with wifi battery is drained in 3-4h
Apr 01 05:08:16 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 05:08:33 <Italodance> KotCzarny new n-gage games can work with urs ?
Apr 01 05:08:40 <Italodance> like Fifa 08
Apr 01 05:08:46 <KotCzarny> italodance: i don't know, probably not
Apr 01 05:08:54 <woodwizzle> thats pretty rough. But i would use it as an mp3 player quite a bit with no wifi or screen
Apr 01 05:09:01 <woodwizzle> thats about 10hrs i hear
Apr 01 05:09:08 <KotCzarny> probably
Apr 01 05:09:17 <Italodance> KotCzarny i want Fifa 08 for IT :D   possible?
Apr 01 05:09:30 <KotCzarny> italodance: don't know, probably not
Apr 01 05:09:44 <woodwizzle> Anyone play games on the n800? or do you guys just stick with your ngages
Apr 01 05:09:53 <KotCzarny> woodwizzle: pupnik.de
Apr 01 05:10:07 <KotCzarny> quite a few emulators/games
Apr 01 05:10:09 <rm_you> woodwizzle: doom! :P
Apr 01 05:10:18 <rm_you> woodwizzle: "lxdoom"
Apr 01 05:10:45 <woodwizzle> Doom is ok. I'd prefer something with a bigger multiplayer community
Apr 01 05:10:50 <woodwizzle> like saurbraten
Apr 01 05:10:55 <woodwizzle> or open arena
Apr 01 05:11:01 <KotCzarny> or quake2?
Apr 01 05:11:02 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 05:11:11 <woodwizzle> true
Apr 01 05:11:19 <KotCzarny> there's q2 for n8x0
Apr 01 05:11:28 <woodwizzle> How is the 3d?
Apr 01 05:11:34 <KotCzarny> sotware rendered
Apr 01 05:11:36 <KotCzarny> but fast
Apr 01 05:11:42 <woodwizzle> uses the CPU then
Apr 01 05:12:24 <KotCzarny> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPh2Os0D8pY
Apr 01 05:12:25 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 05:13:32 <KotCzarny> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-dx5ZE4G_0&NR=1
Apr 01 05:13:34 <KotCzarny> LOL
Apr 01 05:13:40 <Italodance> FIFA 08 ?
Apr 01 05:15:24 <woodwizzle> How hard would it be to compile open arena or saurbraten for the m800
Apr 01 05:15:43 <KotCzarny> compilation, shouldn't be a problem
Apr 01 05:15:50 <KotCzarny> game speed could ;)
Apr 01 05:17:15 <woodwizzle> http://openarena.ws/?about
Apr 01 05:17:45 <woodwizzle> says it can run on real slow CPUs but recommends 233mhz with more than 90mb of ram
Apr 01 05:17:57 <woodwizzle> which is less specs than then n800
Apr 01 05:18:20 <woodwizzle> but they also say there are using a hardware video card with at least 8MB ram
Apr 01 05:18:27 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 05:18:48 <KotCzarny> sorry, no drivers for hardware 3d
Apr 01 05:18:50 <KotCzarny> for now
Apr 01 05:19:15 <woodwizzle> poop
Apr 01 05:19:21 <KotCzarny> a little
Apr 01 05:19:45 <tsukasa> hey is there an emulator for n800?
Apr 01 05:19:52 <tsukasa> like windows emulator
Apr 01 05:19:58 <tsukasa> that runs n800
Apr 01 05:20:02 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 01 05:20:05 <tsukasa> where at?
Apr 01 05:20:06 <KotCzarny> it's included with sdk
Apr 01 05:20:10 <tsukasa> cool
Apr 01 05:20:42 <KotCzarny> it's more an simulator than emulator though
Apr 01 05:20:46 <tsukasa> ?
Apr 01 05:21:20 <KotCzarny> same story as with symbian sdk
Apr 01 05:21:41 <KotCzarny> you get an environment that simulates the device
Apr 01 05:22:20 <woodwizzle> hmm.. Gotta check the specs. Something like Assault Cube might be doable
Apr 01 05:22:24 <tsukasa> how is that different/better/worst then an emulator?
Apr 01 05:22:34 <KotCzarny> runs fast
Apr 01 05:22:34 <woodwizzle> How do you control doom and quake? Do you need a bluetooth mouse?
Apr 01 05:22:35 <Italodance> tsukasa where are u from?
Apr 01 05:22:42 <KotCzarny> because actual code is compiled for x86
Apr 01 05:22:44 <tsukasa> Italodance, texas
Apr 01 05:22:50 <Italodance> ok :D
Apr 01 05:22:56 <KotCzarny> so you can test how developed app feels like
Apr 01 05:23:04 <KotCzarny> and you can test for bugs
Apr 01 05:23:07 <tsukasa> KotCzarny, so it functions the same just on a diff arch
Apr 01 05:23:12 <KotCzarny> yeah
Apr 01 05:23:21 <tsukasa> KotCzarny, the entire os and everything is there and works tho right
Apr 01 05:23:23 <KotCzarny> but it doesn't have dsp emulation
Apr 01 05:23:36 <KotCzarny> so anything trying to speak directly to hardware will fail
Apr 01 05:23:46 <KotCzarny> tsukasa: yes
Apr 01 05:23:49 <tsukasa> cool
Apr 01 05:23:50 <KotCzarny> i guess
Apr 01 05:24:05 <KotCzarny> but you can't run arm binaries on it
Apr 01 05:24:15 <tsukasa> yeah..
Apr 01 05:24:40 <KotCzarny> that's why it's simulator
Apr 01 05:24:41 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 05:24:56 <KotCzarny> never used it though
Apr 01 05:25:08 <KotCzarny> i just mount my pc's dir via sshfs and run directly on device
Apr 01 05:25:09 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 05:25:09 <tsukasa> does the n800 have ir?
Apr 01 05:25:12 <KotCzarny> nope
Apr 01 05:25:20 <tsukasa> thats sucks
Apr 01 05:25:23 <KotCzarny> why?
Apr 01 05:25:33 <tsukasa> because otherwise it could be a universal remote too
Apr 01 05:25:39 <KotCzarny> there's usb
Apr 01 05:25:40 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 05:25:46 <tsukasa> hey if anyone in here works for nokia
Apr 01 05:25:50 <KotCzarny> usb--irda should work
Apr 01 05:25:57 <tsukasa> a 30cent ir port would be nice
Apr 01 05:26:04 <KotCzarny> space issues?
Apr 01 05:26:04 <tsukasa> i know but it costs like nothing to include
Apr 01 05:26:05 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 05:26:06 <tsukasa> i guess
Apr 01 05:26:20 <tsukasa> the added functionality is worth it imo
Apr 01 05:26:20 <KotCzarny> it's already packed up to the top
Apr 01 05:26:33 <KotCzarny> consider this:
Apr 01 05:26:52 <KotCzarny> they have to throw out sd slots from n800 to make additional features fit into n810
Apr 01 05:27:02 <Cptnodegard> sure
Apr 01 05:27:11 <KotCzarny> *had
Apr 01 05:27:13 <tsukasa> gps is slightly more involved then ir though, im guessing
Apr 01 05:27:23 <Cptnodegard> they removed them to make it thing and pointless, macbook aiur style
Apr 01 05:27:41 <KotCzarny> n800 ftw!
Apr 01 05:28:04 <tsukasa> KotCzarny, also consider the other side of the argument, you spend like $250 for a logitech harmony which is a universal remote with touchscreen with enough space to save like 50 configurations
Apr 01 05:28:16 <tsukasa> or you add a 30 cent ir attachment to the n800 and your done
Apr 01 05:28:18 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 05:28:26 <KotCzarny> tsukasa, as i said usb--irda
Apr 01 05:28:30 <Cptnodegard> but i totally agree that ir port would pwn, there are apps to work as universal remote. a usb thingy isnt a solution either because of the stupid placement of the usb port
Apr 01 05:28:52 <KotCzarny> is there any bt-irda ?
Apr 01 05:29:21 <tank-man> i think ive seen one
Apr 01 05:29:26 <Cptnodegard> i think so... or wifi ones. that app has to use somethig :p the universal remote one
Apr 01 05:29:31 <tank-man> you can use a ir remote with the ps3 bluetooth
Apr 01 05:30:25 <Cptnodegard> what would pwn would be a to a have an app for a cellphone, working as bt-ir bridge
Apr 01 05:30:41 <Cptnodegard> just leave the cell by the stereo and control from n8x0
Apr 01 05:30:52 <KotCzarny> not a problem
Apr 01 05:30:54 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 05:31:14 <Cptnodegard> thats available?
Apr 01 05:31:14 <KotCzarny> for someone who can program java or symbian ;)
Apr 01 05:31:43 <Cptnodegard> go to work then ;P
Apr 01 05:31:58 <KotCzarny> how much would you pay me?
Apr 01 05:31:59 <KotCzarny> :P
Apr 01 05:32:11 <Cptnodegard> 10000 simoleans?
Apr 01 05:32:23 <KotCzarny> how much it is in EUR ?
Apr 01 05:32:32 <Cptnodegard> 0
Apr 01 05:32:39 <KotCzarny> not enough then
Apr 01 05:32:39 <Cptnodegard> simoleans are from The Sims
Apr 01 05:32:51 <KotCzarny> never played the sims
Apr 01 05:33:16 <Cptnodegard> i would do it but i cant program my dick to piss straight
Apr 01 05:33:26 <woodwizzle> How fast is the ARM CPU running maemo and all. Does it feel quick?
Apr 01 05:33:35 <KotCzarny> woodwizzle: depends
Apr 01 05:33:40 <KotCzarny> interface is fast
Apr 01 05:33:43 <Cptnodegard> 57mph
Apr 01 05:33:49 <woodwizzle> How about video performance?
Apr 01 05:33:53 <KotCzarny> browser can be slow sometimes
Apr 01 05:33:59 <tank-man> 9.8m/s/s
Apr 01 05:34:04 <Cptnodegard> stuttering no matter how small the video is
Apr 01 05:34:04 <KotCzarny> but there are developed fast versions
Apr 01 05:34:13 <KotCzarny> cpt: not true
Apr 01 05:34:16 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 05:34:21 <Cptnodegard> does with me
Apr 01 05:34:26 <KotCzarny> it's all because xomap is reniced to -1
Apr 01 05:34:31 <Cptnodegard> and from what i can see on itt, it does with others too
Apr 01 05:34:43 <Cptnodegard> the what has donewhat?
Apr 01 05:34:50 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 05:36:03 <tank-man> encode your videos with a smaller resolution
Apr 01 05:36:17 <Cptnodegard> the secondary stabilizer in the gyrodane relee has depolarized
Apr 01 05:36:47 <Cptnodegard> 320x240 is small enough, theres still hickups (not constant stuttering)
Apr 01 05:37:15 <tank-man> are you using mplayer ?
Apr 01 05:37:29 <tank-man> or some frontend with that?
Apr 01 05:38:34 <Cptnodegard> mplayer
Apr 01 05:39:27 <KotCzarny> cpt: i have no stuttering with 720x448 vid
Apr 01 05:39:55 <KotCzarny> with content over sshfs
Apr 01 05:39:56 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 05:40:18 <Cptnodegard> stuttering or hickups? as what im talking about is playing videos and getting stuttering for 2 secs or so randomly on small videos
Apr 01 05:40:37 <KotCzarny> as i said, renice your xomap to 0
Apr 01 05:40:43 <KotCzarny> ps ax|grep Xomap
Apr 01 05:40:50 <Cptnodegard> yeah i dunno wtf that means, sorry :)
Apr 01 05:40:53 <KotCzarny> then take first number and: renice -0 number
Apr 01 05:41:07 <tank-man> i didnt have to renice any app
Apr 01 05:41:19 <blafasel> What's xomap anyway?
Apr 01 05:41:24 <KotCzarny> xserver
Apr 01 05:41:51 <Cptnodegard> ops school
Apr 01 05:50:08 <KotCzarny> btw.
Apr 01 05:50:20 <KotCzarny> there's mplayer .26 on the garage
Apr 01 05:51:14 <KotCzarny> and .25 is completely removed ;)
Apr 01 05:54:25 <Italodance> KotCzarny  25 is better than 26
Apr 01 05:59:46 <woodwizzle> If I want to see if something compiles for maemo, can I just try to compile it for a maemo emulator?
Apr 01 05:59:58 <woodwizzle> That way I can test if some programs are compatible
Apr 01 05:59:58 <KotCzarny> why?
Apr 01 06:00:21 <KotCzarny> ah. because you don't have n8x0 yet
Apr 01 06:00:23 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 01 06:00:30 <KotCzarny> you can test it in simulator
Apr 01 06:01:22 <woodwizzle> Does it scale to the speed and resolution of the n800?
Apr 01 06:01:35 <KotCzarny> don't know
Apr 01 06:01:41 <KotCzarny> you should read docs :)
Apr 01 06:02:00 <johnx> I'm pretty sure it just emulates away as fast as your host computer is capable of
Apr 01 06:02:28 <KotCzarny> johnx: it's not an emulator
Apr 01 06:02:28 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 06:02:44 <johnx> KotCzarny, are you talking about qemu?
Apr 01 06:02:56 <KotCzarny> nope, about x86 target
Apr 01 06:03:02 <KotCzarny> and xephyr
Apr 01 06:03:35 <johnx> ah, why would he test in that though? he asked about an emulator...
Apr 01 06:03:52 <KotCzarny> because he ocnsiders buying IT
Apr 01 06:03:55 <KotCzarny> considers
Apr 01 06:04:07 <KotCzarny> and wanted to test some software first
Apr 01 06:05:18 <johnx> ah, right...I keep forgetting that you can't just compile for arm and run with qemu
Apr 01 06:05:23 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 06:05:30 <KotCzarny> you can't
Apr 01 06:05:31 <KotCzarny> ?
Apr 01 06:05:45 * KotCzarny tries
Apr 01 06:05:50 <johnx> I thought it didn't work all the time? why wouldn't he do that if it works?
Apr 01 06:05:58 * johnx is confused, wanders off
Apr 01 06:06:03 * johnx drinks coffee
Apr 01 06:06:03 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 06:06:05 <KotCzarny> worked
Apr 01 06:06:33 <KotCzarny> it wouldn't work if software uses unsupported instructions
Apr 01 06:06:41 <KotCzarny> or just tries to bang on hw
Apr 01 06:07:03 <johnx> right, and most software I've tried ends up hitting unsupported functions, but in theory it works at least
Apr 01 06:07:10 <KotCzarny> upgrade qemu
Apr 01 06:07:11 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 06:07:40 * johnx doesn't care enough...
Apr 01 06:20:22 <Italodance> wimax is available for n800?
Apr 01 06:20:38 <KotCzarny> in the same way as gsm/gprs/edge
Apr 01 06:23:11 <KotCzarny> {standard input}:10283: Error: co-processor offset out of range
Apr 01 06:23:14 <KotCzarny> o.O
Apr 01 06:23:36 <KotCzarny> and it's in.. font_load_ft.c
Apr 01 06:23:39 <KotCzarny> O.o
Apr 01 06:24:55 <KotCzarny> removing -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp helped
Apr 01 06:24:56 <KotCzarny> o.O
Apr 01 06:27:34 <KotCzarny> .26 looks broken hard :/
Apr 01 06:27:56 <johnx> Italodance, no
Apr 01 06:29:18 <KotCzarny> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSY_9H23FyY
Apr 01 06:32:14 <Italodance> johnx  where can i add fonts to n800?
Apr 01 06:32:53 <KotCzarny> http://www.playgizmo.ru/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/pspbig.jpg
Apr 01 06:33:00 <KotCzarny> psp2 concept design
Apr 01 06:33:03 <KotCzarny> sexy
Apr 01 06:34:01 <KotCzarny> http://www.flickr.com/photos/23754022@N08/2257628900/sizes/o/
Apr 01 06:34:04 <Italodance> KotCzarny nice!
Apr 01 06:34:05 <KotCzarny> bigger res here
Apr 01 06:34:28 <Italodance> KotCzarny where can i add fonts to n800?
Apr 01 06:34:50 <KotCzarny> italodance: /usr/share/fonts/
Apr 01 06:34:57 <Italodance> tnx
Apr 01 06:34:59 <KotCzarny> somewhere below that dir
Apr 01 06:35:48 <Italodance> : /fonts/ yes or /usr/share/fonts/Nokia/ ?
Apr 01 06:36:03 <KotCzarny> don't know
Apr 01 06:36:07 <KotCzarny> try for yourself
Apr 01 06:36:11 <Italodance> ok
Apr 01 06:44:02 <KotCzarny> google error
Apr 01 06:44:06 <KotCzarny> Translation from English into English is not supported.
Apr 01 06:44:07 <KotCzarny> lol
Apr 01 06:49:18 <ameng> Hi, can mplayer on your n810 play rmvb video?
Apr 01 06:49:50 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 01 06:49:59 <KotCzarny> erm.
Apr 01 06:50:02 <KotCzarny> or maybe not
Apr 01 06:50:12 <KotCzarny> i think it only lists my codecs.conf file
Apr 01 06:50:14 <ameng> mine cannot,why?
Apr 01 06:50:23 <KotCzarny> probably no open source decoder
Apr 01 06:51:19 <ameng> mplayer on my ubuntu pc can play
Apr 01 06:51:27 <KotCzarny> that's different
Apr 01 06:51:38 <KotCzarny> because there's binary codec for x86
Apr 01 06:51:49 <KotCzarny> few of them even
Apr 01 06:52:14 <ameng> you mean lack of source of the codec for arm to compile?
Apr 01 06:52:19 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 01 06:52:25 <KotCzarny> or even lack of binary version
Apr 01 06:52:32 <KotCzarny> released by realmedia
Apr 01 06:53:01 <ameng> :-(
Apr 01 07:09:18 <woodwizzle> Does maemo have a decent PIM app?
Apr 01 07:09:47 <johnx> kinda, sorta
Apr 01 07:09:56 <inz> openedhand and gpe are trying to fill that gap
Apr 01 07:10:12 <johnx> poke at gpe calendar and openhand pimlico dates and see if they're what you want
Apr 01 07:10:32 <johnx> PIM is not its strength but I actually like o-hand dates well enough
Apr 01 07:10:38 <wom-> if you use google calendar you can view and add events with this code.google.com/p/googbus
Apr 01 07:10:46 <wom-> its sitll early days for that though
Apr 01 07:11:31 <woodwizzle> dates looks good
Apr 01 07:11:40 <woodwizzle> What about syncing my tomboy notes?
Apr 01 07:29:19 <Navi> johnx, sadly, development on it's been kind of dead
Apr 01 07:29:50 <Navi> The bug tracker piles up while no svn commits are made
Apr 01 07:34:44 <KotCzarny> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yZ0b19E67k
Apr 01 07:34:45 <KotCzarny> hehe
Apr 01 07:38:17 <prograf> Today Jamiroquai - High Times Singles 1992 - 2006
Apr 01 07:39:39 <KotCzarny> http://blog.abrenna.com/formal-protest-against-norways-yes-to-ooxml/
Apr 01 07:39:40 <KotCzarny> lol
Apr 01 07:46:29 <inz> jott, I wonder if vte 0.16 would bring anything new and fancy
Apr 01 07:46:58 <inz> jott, tried yesterday, and it compiles -- and I could even "port" my maemo-changes to it
Apr 01 08:01:19 <AD-N770> bon dia / good morning
Apr 01 08:05:11 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Apr 01 08:46:56 <Gatestone> Any ideas what's happening now when Nokia bought Trolltech?
Apr 01 08:47:25 <jaska> one could hope theyd be throwing away symbian :)
Apr 01 08:48:08 <TheFool> anything good happen lately on the maemo front?
Apr 01 08:51:02 <Gatestone> Any feelings about Android here, have you looket at the toolkit?
Apr 01 08:51:29 <aquatix> android is not what you would call `open'
Apr 01 08:51:38 <aquatix> it's an interesting platform though
Apr 01 08:52:01 <Gatestone> Why is it not open?
Apr 01 08:52:29 <liri> do you think nokia will ever put basic cellular capabilities in the internet tablet series?
Apr 01 08:52:51 <aquatix> even if it's based on linux, they only open up the device for developers through their java platform
Apr 01 08:53:16 <aquatix> similar to how existing linux-based dumbphones work
Apr 01 08:53:43 <aquatix> except that android is a lot spiffier than that mini java
Apr 01 08:54:23 <Gatestone> How about LiMo?I am just trying to figure out the future of phones, and it looks to me that it is Nokia/Symbian vs. Apple vs. Android vs. maybe something else?
Apr 01 08:54:44 <Gatestone> And I am not sure if the "something else" is viable, really.
Apr 01 08:54:58 <aquatix> `something else' could be access' linux platform
Apr 01 08:55:12 <aquatix> which i think is quite nice, but i'm not sure how many devices we will see with it
Apr 01 08:55:37 <aquatix> fun thing is that nokia currently has 3 platforms; symbian s60, maemo and now qt
Apr 01 08:55:49 <aquatix> maybe we'll see qt phones
Apr 01 08:55:59 <Gatestone> I am not really interested in my won perspective as a user, just trying to forecast the market in 10 years from now.
Apr 01 08:56:01 <aquatix> that'd be nice i guess
Apr 01 08:56:07 <aquatix> hm
Apr 01 08:56:21 <aquatix> i'm not sure how long symbian will live
Apr 01 08:56:28 <jaska> hopefully not long
Apr 01 08:56:36 <aquatix> linux will have a large market share
Apr 01 08:56:41 <Gatestone> (I have a N70 which is pretty lame, I am dreaming of an Android or iPhone...)
Apr 01 08:56:52 <MangoFusion> personally i think android is quite a nifty idea. though its a pity you can (currently) only make apps for it in java
Apr 01 08:56:56 <aquatix> and i think it heads to open phones [as in: easily developed for]
Apr 01 08:57:02 <aquatix> MangoFusion: yeah
Apr 01 08:57:22 <aquatix> it's really nice, but they only opened those abilities to their java layer
Apr 01 08:57:38 <aquatix> otoh, java is a nice, object oriented language
Apr 01 08:57:53 <aquatix> however, the android java is yet another dialect
Apr 01 08:57:59 <jaska> java nice?
Apr 01 08:58:01 <aquatix> it's not the real java
Apr 01 08:58:04 <jaska> this is april 1st indeed
Apr 01 08:58:06 <Gatestone> Why I am on this channel, is that I should do a Maemo presentation for our (beginning) Linux developers.
Apr 01 08:58:09 <aquatix> jaska: depends on your point of view ;)
Apr 01 08:58:14 <aquatix> at *can* be nice :)
Apr 01 08:58:33 <aquatix> i hope maemo sticks around
Apr 01 08:58:36 <MangoFusion> though should be possible to target other languages to it. just like there is JRuby, Jython, C for J2ME, etc
Apr 01 08:58:41 <aquatix> for the more serious devices
Apr 01 08:59:05 <aquatix> MangoFusion: android's java != j2me
Apr 01 08:59:08 <aquatix> fyi :)
Apr 01 08:59:23 <MangoFusion> sure but i am just generalising here
Apr 01 08:59:29 <aquatix> kk :)
Apr 01 09:00:23 <Gatestone> I guess some kind of interpreted virtual machine standard would be nice for a phone platform, with device drivers offering higher performance functionality like multimedia or 3D graphics rendering.
Apr 01 09:01:17 <aquatix> yeah
Apr 01 09:01:25 <aquatix> that's exactly what android's doing
Apr 01 09:01:28 <Italodance> ummm i want skin for mplayer   available???????????????
Apr 01 09:01:31 <aquatix> so i think it's quite nice
Apr 01 09:01:44 <aquatix> but it's not an open linux phone platform
Apr 01 09:04:57 <blafasel> Btw: I'd really like to see an OpenMoko phone finally
Apr 01 09:05:57 <MangoFusion> anyone tried plonking the openmoko os on a NIT? ;)
Apr 01 09:14:01 <aquatix> MangoFusion: i like maemo better on my NIT ;)
Apr 01 09:14:35 <MangoFusion> but...but... you don't get a cool fullscreen phone dialer!
Apr 01 09:14:38 <MangoFusion> :P
Apr 01 09:23:45 <Gatestone> I guess we haven't seen the final solution yet. There is room for some technological revelutions here.
Apr 01 09:24:47 <Gatestone> BTW, look how one non-standard innovation can grab a lot of market, like Blackberry, or iPhone. So if you come up with a GOOD CHEAP phone, it does not matter which tech it uses internally.
Apr 01 09:30:42 <blafasel> Depends. It does matter for those who care.
Apr 01 09:31:04 <blafasel> It doesn't matter for your investors if you happen to sell the iPhone PLUS, I give you that.
Apr 01 09:31:44 <Lynoure> I don't see Blackberry or iPhone very non-standard, just kind of continuation of Treo :)
Apr 01 10:24:05 <Gatestone> Here is my candidate for the future phone software revolution, presentation by Dennis Ritchie http://cm.bell-labs.com/iwp9/dmr_iwp9.ppt. Ritchie mentions the PathStar softswitch, but does not mentione that Lucent also did an Inferno land line phone, and implemented hand-writing recognition for a test phone in the lab, using Plan 9 / Inferno.
Apr 01 10:30:00 <eichi> what about java for maemo? iwant to run josm, for openstreetmap
Apr 01 10:49:47 <aquatix> Gatestone: whoa, a phone running plan 9?
Apr 01 10:50:27 <blafasel> Gatestone: Whoa, a link to a ppt file?
Apr 01 10:50:36 <aquatix> yeah, that too :)
Apr 01 10:53:35 <snake_mountain> OK
Apr 01 10:54:08 <aquatix> or, bye?
Apr 01 10:54:13 <aquatix> *er
Apr 01 11:05:41 <aquatix> hm, i wonder when/if microb will be updated soonish with a newer version of gecko
Apr 01 11:08:01 <Jaffa> aquatix: hopefully with today's (hopeful) release of diablo (maemo 4.1)
Apr 01 11:09:06 <aquatix> ooh :)
Apr 01 11:09:10 <aquatix> that'd be neat
Apr 01 11:09:19 <aquatix> dangit, then i'll have to reinstall stuff
Apr 01 11:09:22 <aquatix> oh well ;)
Apr 01 11:11:07 <Jaffa> Last time, as diablo is expected to bring in incremental upgrades.
Apr 01 11:11:48 <aquatix> neat
Apr 01 11:12:08 <aquatix> how did i miss that? :)
Apr 01 11:18:17 <blafasel> Jaffa: Same details about that? An announcement?
Apr 01 11:21:38 <aquatix> blafasel: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17727
Apr 01 11:28:50 <blafasel> The "Are we talking about the PC game" comment is sad, very sad..
Apr 01 11:29:02 <blafasel> But thanks for the link
Apr 01 11:29:26 <glass> ~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~hehe
Apr 01 11:29:31 <glass> uups
Apr 01 11:29:38 <aquatix> blafasel: hm, missed that comment :)
Apr 01 11:31:38 <thux_n800> can osso-xterm open browser like gnome-terminal?
Apr 01 11:32:01 <thux_n800> from link
Apr 01 11:33:05 <Jaffa> NAFAIK :(
Apr 01 11:33:55 <thux_n800> ok just it underlines link same way
Apr 01 11:48:18 <Jaffa> thux: it's using the same library under the covers (vte) just doesn't implement the callback
Apr 01 12:01:38 <ccooke> Oooh, that was odd.
Apr 01 12:01:48 <ccooke> Sudden reboot.
Apr 01 12:29:57 <Mikho> would somebody know if N770 USB port supports OTG?
Apr 01 12:33:43 <hullfandan> I have a 770 (running os2007 hacker edition) and I can't seem to get root on it anymore. sudo gainroot works but I don't get prompted for a password and can't execute my app.  sudo su get a permission denied. Anyone got any clues to what I set up wrong. It's a while since I did it now so I am stumpted :/
Apr 01 12:34:30 <hullfandan> actuall sudo su say that user user isn't allowed to execute /bin/su
Apr 01 12:35:39 <hullfandan> anyone? even if it is just to tell me to go away :)
Apr 01 12:36:18 <Mikho> usr/sbin/gainroot has never asked me for a password
Apr 01 12:38:32 <hullfandan> iirc it's best to just use gainroot once to set up user as a superuser so in future you just use 'sudo su'?
Apr 01 12:38:36 <pupnik> https://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowDoiBecomeRoot
Apr 01 12:39:37 * mgedmin never understands why people use 'sudo su' and not 'sudo -s'
Apr 01 12:41:03 <hullfandan> I have done that HowdoIbecomeRoot before but some time ago,
Apr 01 12:41:46 <hullfandan> gainroot seems to be working but I can't execute anything? any ideas why that might be
Apr 01 12:42:05 <hullfandan> Just getting that I don't have persmisson to execute ./
Apr 01 12:42:16 <hullfandan> which suggests I am not actually root
Apr 01 12:45:27 <sp3000> or the file does not have execute bit set
Apr 01 12:47:15 <felipec> mgedmin: what's the difference?
Apr 01 12:47:39 <mgedmin> one uses two tools where one would suffice
Apr 01 12:47:43 <mgedmin> I suppose it's just a matter of elegance
Apr 01 12:51:22 <blafasel> hullfandan: What are you trying to do?
Apr 01 12:51:24 <inz> hull, are you trying to run from a mmc card?
Apr 01 12:52:02 <blafasel> sudo su doesn't work, because you probably didn't allow that in the /etc/sudoers (or the equivalent)
Apr 01 12:52:20 <hullfandan> I am trying to run an application i developed. I am sure i have run it before but I could have forgot and updated it without setting execute bit. can i check this on maemo device?
Apr 01 12:52:20 <blafasel> But you seem to be mixing things anyway, somehow
Apr 01 12:52:29 <blafasel> ls -l
Apr 01 12:52:38 <blafasel> And you don't need root so far
Apr 01 12:52:43 <hullfandan> I am pretty new to linux so appologies for any noobishness
Apr 01 12:52:47 <blafasel> Unless you forgot to mention something ;)
Apr 01 12:53:10 <hullfandan> I thought I needed root to ftp/ssh stuff to the device over wifi and to execute it?
Apr 01 12:53:20 <blafasel> ls -l and look at the output. it should probably be -rwxr-x-- yourfile or something
Apr 01 12:54:01 <hullfandan> yeah it is -rwxr-xr-x
Apr 01 12:54:09 <blafasel> So it is eXecutable
Apr 01 12:54:18 <blafasel> You can run it as it is.
Apr 01 12:54:28 <blafasel> If you are in that directory: ./yourapplication
Apr 01 12:54:29 <hullfandan> I have run it in the past, so I am confused why it's no longer working
Apr 01 12:55:44 <hullfandan> oh ffs, it is running now :( but I changed notthing sobs
Apr 01 12:55:52 <hullfandan> thanks
Apr 01 12:56:32 <blafasel> Did you use "./" at the start before as well?
Apr 01 12:56:39 <blafasel> Are you sure that you were in the right directory?
Apr 01 12:56:54 <hullfandan> I think maybe I did that as root but just then I just did ./ before trying to become root
Apr 01 12:57:05 <felipec> mgedmin: ahh
Apr 01 12:57:11 <hullfandan> yeah, I was in the right dir and typed it right, I'm a noob but not that bad :)
Apr 01 12:57:33 <hullfandan> Thanks for your help.
Apr 01 12:57:50 <blafasel> I still don't understand what your problem was, but - you're welcome ;)
Apr 01 12:58:06 <hullfandan> lol, :)
Apr 01 12:58:21 <hullfandan> basicaly I didn't need to become root. I just needed to run it.
Apr 01 12:58:48 <hullfandan> do you need to become root to ftp stuff to the device?
Apr 01 12:58:54 <blafasel> TO?
Apr 01 12:59:12 <blafasel> Huh? You mean downloading files on the device?
Apr 01 12:59:15 <blafasel> No.
Apr 01 12:59:27 <blafasel> Uploading to the device? Depending on the software used: No
Apr 01 12:59:31 <hullfandan> yes, when I build a new version in scrathbox I am currently ftping it to the device
Apr 01 12:59:43 <hullfandan> ok, thanks
Apr 01 12:59:46 <pupnik> you have an ftp server on the device?
Apr 01 12:59:48 <aquatix> can't you better scp?
Apr 01 12:59:55 <blafasel> ftpint to the device translates to "FTP Server on the Nokia" to me
Apr 01 12:59:55 <aquatix> just a thought
Apr 01 13:00:34 <hullfandan> what is scp. Anything that speeds up testing on the device would be great. It is a bit of a pain at the moment
Apr 01 13:01:03 <blafasel> I think you are just downloading though, right? That's not bad at all. FTP is less secure than SSH, but it was meant for file transfers. So use it for that and don't even think about switching to HTTP (or using ssh if there's no incentive)
Apr 01 13:01:10 <hullfandan> Although my new iGo keyboard is speeding things up a bit, even if my lack of experience slows things back down again :)
Apr 01 13:01:12 <pupnik> i test on the device by mounting (as client) from the device a share on my scratchbox pc
Apr 01 13:01:19 <pupnik> or by scp'ing the files to the device
Apr 01 13:01:47 <pupnik> whatever file transfer works is ok of course
Apr 01 13:02:18 <hullfandan> are there any documents or tutorials on maemo.org about the different ways to test on devices?
Apr 01 13:02:59 <hullfandan> that mounting option sounds good but I would rather go through a tutorial on setting that or other ways up instead of bothering you nice people :)
Apr 01 13:03:49 <hullfandan> All I could find was tutorial on creating debian packages which didn't work and seemed overkill for evaluating the simple stuff I was coding
Apr 01 13:05:20 <aquatix> scp works over ssh
Apr 01 13:07:17 <hullfandan> ok, thanks. I think a tutorial showing beginers like myself how to do this would be really useful. Lots of stuff on how to get started coding but unless you want to make a package nothing on getting it onto the device and running it. Peopl on here have been great but a tutorial would make sense. Maybe I will write one when I actually understand what I am doing ;)
Apr 01 13:11:43 <aquatix> basically you type something like "scp -p <sourcefile> <destination"; depending on if you do this on your tablet or your pc this may look like: "scp -p yourpc_username@192.168.0.4:/path/to/file ./"
Apr 01 13:11:55 <aquatix> hullfandan: are you on a *nix or windows machine?
Apr 01 13:12:34 <hullfandan> debian
Apr 01 13:12:43 <aquatix> ok
Apr 01 13:13:08 <aquatix> you have a password for user `user' on your tablet?
Apr 01 13:13:17 <hullfandan> yes
Apr 01 13:13:20 <aquatix> ok
Apr 01 13:13:30 <aquatix> then you can do something from your debian machine like this:
Apr 01 13:13:49 <aquatix> scp -p yourfile user@ip-of-your-tablet:/path/to/destination
Apr 01 13:14:01 <aquatix> and then it asks for the pw of `user'
Apr 01 13:14:20 <aquatix> you can even use ~/path/in/home after the `:'
Apr 01 13:14:53 <aquatix> the -p is for preserving file attributes, like date/time btw
Apr 01 13:15:03 <aquatix> like the -a in "cp -a file destination"
Apr 01 13:16:19 <hullfandan> thanks aquatix, just trying that now
Apr 01 13:23:49 <johnx> 0.0...................................................................................0
Apr 01 13:25:11 <aquatix> johnx: hm, mine seems to be larger
Apr 01 13:25:52 * aquatix holds his tablet against his monitor
Apr 01 13:25:56 <hullfandan> hmm, just getting a usage error aquatix. I thought it didn't like the -p flag but I tried it without and it still just cmae up with usuage options for scp
Apr 01 13:26:06 <johnx> my bad, something fell on my keyboard O_o
Apr 01 13:26:14 <aquatix> hullfandan: can you paste the line here?
Apr 01 13:26:19 <aquatix> johnx: :)
Apr 01 13:28:23 <hullfandan> scp -p bluevend user@192.168.1.108:/home/user/
Apr 01 13:28:31 <hullfandan> it connects now but i get permisson denied
Apr 01 13:28:48 <hullfandan> and i took the trailing / off as that is wrong i guess
Apr 01 13:29:15 <aquatix> hm
Apr 01 13:29:33 <aquatix> and if you try:
Apr 01 13:29:39 <aquatix> scp -p bluevend user@192.168.1.108:~/
Apr 01 13:29:54 <aquatix> [shouldn't really make a difference, but worth a try]
Apr 01 13:30:10 <aquatix> does it ask for a password?
Apr 01 13:30:45 <hullfandan> still permission denied, I double check password now.I am sure I just checked it when mesing around with gainroot though
Apr 01 13:31:54 <johnx> try without -p
Apr 01 13:32:52 <aquatix> root pw != user pw
Apr 01 13:33:04 <aquatix> you could try root@192. ...
Apr 01 13:33:08 <aquatix> with that password
Apr 01 13:33:17 <aquatix> if you have remote ssh enabled for root
Apr 01 13:33:24 <hullfandan> i tried without -p and still permisson denied. I also just reset user password using passwd
Apr 01 13:33:58 <hullfandan> YAY
Apr 01 13:34:02 <hullfandan> worked as root
Apr 01 13:34:12 <hullfandan> thank you very much
Apr 01 13:34:21 <aquatix> :)
Apr 01 13:34:25 <aquatix> you're welcome
Apr 01 13:34:38 <hullfandan> Got there in the end thank you for your patience
Apr 01 13:35:00 <jott> hullfandan: you don't need ~/ or /home/user btw... the ":" translates to ~ - so just using "scp file user@ip:" should suffice
Apr 01 13:35:25 <jott> still you should be able to copy files as user to your user home dir ..
Apr 01 13:36:04 <aquatix> jott: yeah, but you need to use the right password :)
Apr 01 13:36:14 <aquatix> and i guess that hullfandan was using root's pw
Apr 01 13:36:29 <jott> or just a ssh key ;)
Apr 01 13:36:36 <aquatix> true :)
Apr 01 13:36:47 * jott is too lazy to type passwords :)
Apr 01 13:36:47 <aquatix> but didn't want to bother hullfandan with that ;)
Apr 01 13:37:23 <hullfandan> thanks, my brain already hurts :)
Apr 01 13:37:39 <blafasel> jott: The key has no passphrase?
Apr 01 13:37:56 <aquatix> blafasel: maybe he uses ssh-agent
Apr 01 13:38:03 <aquatix> then he only has to type the pw once
Apr 01 13:38:14 <aquatix> need to implement that once
Apr 01 13:38:17 <blafasel> Yeah, but still. ;)
Apr 01 13:38:26 <blafasel> Implement? It's fairly easy ;)
Apr 01 13:38:33 <aquatix> yeah, but i'm lazy
Apr 01 13:38:35 <aquatix> and busy
Apr 01 13:38:52 * aquatix wonders what he's doing here
Apr 01 13:38:55 <blafasel> You save keystrokes and time afterwards, so both are satisfied
Apr 01 13:39:04 <aquatix> need to finish a paper and presentation in 2.5h
Apr 01 13:39:21 <aquatix> blafasel: true
Apr 01 13:41:01 * aquatix thinks /. forgot the date
Apr 01 13:41:06 <aquatix> i miss my ponies
Apr 01 13:41:17 <henrique> hi, is the "gpsbt" api the only alternative to communicate with the gps?
Apr 01 14:02:49 <Jaffa> aquatix: about time - last few years Slashdot's been useless from about 200x-03-31T16:00:00Z to 200x-04-02T10:00Z :-(
Apr 01 14:02:59 <Jaffa> Any interesting news from CTIA yet?
Apr 01 14:04:15 <aquatix> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/01/npenguin101.xml
Apr 01 14:05:00 <Jaffa> aquatix: also shown on the BBC News this morning. Saw it, thought "that looks a bit computer generated" and then remembered the date
Apr 01 14:05:05 <tank-man> is the flasher util for the n810 the same as the n800?
Apr 01 14:05:26 <aquatix> Jaffa: ah :)
Apr 01 14:05:32 <Jaffa> tank-man: yes
Apr 01 14:05:35 <johnx> yup, 'cause the guts of the N800 are the same as the N810
Apr 01 14:05:36 <aquatix> pics look quite ok though :)
Apr 01 14:05:59 <Jaffa> The start of it looked really good when they're trying to take off
Apr 01 14:06:35 <Jaffa> As April Fools go, it's the best I've seen this year (if a little obvious)
Apr 01 14:07:24 <aquatix> http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2008/04/01/acid-3-opera-first-to-106
Apr 01 14:08:38 <mourad> I want to install maemo-mapper on my computer but I need the package  "libgpsmgr-dev". Do anybody can give me some hints ?
Apr 01 14:08:54 <Jaffa> JFGI? ;-)
Apr 01 14:09:26 <johnx> maybe try and build it without libgpsmgr support?
Apr 01 14:13:16 <mourad> i tryed to install it but without result
Apr 01 14:13:51 <johnx> tried to install it on your desktop? isn't it nokia closed source, arm-only?
Apr 01 14:14:25 <johnx> libgpsmgr I mean...
Apr 01 14:15:25 <mourad> yes I tried on my desktop not on the NOKIA810
Apr 01 14:16:06 <mourad> johnx: with scratchbox and maemo chinook 4.
Apr 01 14:17:50 <johnx> aaaah...ok, I see
Apr 01 14:19:16 <johnx> Are you trying to get this running on your desktop to test it for the tablet or do you just want to use it?
Apr 01 14:19:32 <mourad> johnx: I downloaded the package from this link https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/3550/maemo-mapper_2.4.1.tar.gz
Apr 01 14:23:41 <Italodance> guys
Apr 01 14:23:42 <Italodance> http://iceland.intracore.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/screenshot01.png
Apr 01 14:23:55 <Italodance> how can i get this contacts icon?
Apr 01 14:24:18 <mourad> johnx: no just to test it before using it on the n810
Apr 01 14:32:08 <jott> Italodance: it's called personal menu - https://garage.maemo.org/projects/personal-menu/
Apr 01 14:39:33 <ricko73> good morning...where do I find a missing 'libhildonfm2 (1:1.9.49)
Apr 01 14:42:02 <aquatix> hm, any idea why i can't choose a weather station in omweather?
Apr 01 14:47:30 <Jaffa> aquatix: that happened to me; I had to go to weather.com and add it manually
Apr 01 14:48:38 <aquatix> hm, k
Apr 01 14:49:23 <aquatix> but it asks for a zip code
Apr 01 14:49:30 <aquatix> and i try to set a Dutch city
Apr 01 14:49:40 <aquatix> http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/local/NLXX0010?from=search_city <- for example
Apr 01 14:49:53 <aquatix> or shall i set NLXX0010 as zip?
Apr 01 14:50:19 <aquatix> yay
Apr 01 14:50:23 <aquatix> that works
Apr 01 15:35:52 <glass> heheh nethack.org has an april foolstoo
Apr 01 15:41:41 <Cptnodegard> fucking nokia
Apr 01 15:41:58 <Cptnodegard> why cant they just disable the damn memory card when mounting with usb instead of complaining its in use when iuts not? -.-
Apr 01 15:42:20 <mgedmin> why do you think it's not?
Apr 01 15:42:46 <Cptnodegard> well the tablet has been sitting there doing nothing for 5 hours so if it really is in use, i'd like to know wtf its doing
Apr 01 15:42:59 <mgedmin> burning your battery by a bug in metalayer-crawler
Apr 01 15:43:06 <mgedmin> or filling up your swap file
Apr 01 15:43:20 <Cptnodegard> planning world domination by means of mmc1 :p
Apr 01 15:43:21 <ac7ss> You could just remove the card and use a reader on the other machine.
Apr 01 15:43:22 <||cw> do you have swap enabled?
Apr 01 15:43:39 <||cw> I just use scp/sshfs
Apr 01 15:43:41 <Cptnodegard> swap? virtual memory?
Apr 01 15:44:34 <mgedmin> sshfs rules
Apr 01 15:44:40 <||cw> yeah, sometimes it can't disable it for some reason
Apr 01 15:44:41 <mgedmin> (except for not supporting df)
Apr 01 15:44:44 <ac7ss> I prefer rsync.
Apr 01 15:45:00 <Cptnodegard> i use virtual memory but i got no apps running
Apr 01 15:45:00 <Cptnodegard> a reboot fixed it
Apr 01 15:45:04 <||cw> ac7ss: rsync dosn't allow browsing or direct edits
Apr 01 15:45:10 <mgedmin> hm
Apr 01 15:45:13 <ac7ss> true
Apr 01 15:45:20 <Cptnodegard> maemo_world_domination no longer running :p
Apr 01 15:45:22 <mgedmin> that sounds like a bug to me
Apr 01 15:45:33 <mgedmin> the kernel should be able to stop using swap, if there's enough free memory
Apr 01 15:46:10 <||cw> i've had it not be able to several times
Apr 01 15:46:20 <lcdd> it doesn't work like that. the swap has to be disabled
Apr 01 15:46:50 <Cptnodegard> uuh good boy gnumeric managed to open the excel file
Apr 01 15:49:01 * mgedmin is worried about the builtin 2gb flash on the n810
Apr 01 15:50:01 <mgedmin> something fishy is going on there
Apr 01 15:50:26 <mgedmin> I created a 1 gb filesystem with mkdosfs over usb there, and now I see it's 1.8 gb
Apr 01 15:50:39 <mgedmin> did I reformat it in my sleep, or what?
Apr 01 15:53:15 <GeneralAntilles> Or you didn't actually create the filesystem. :P
Apr 01 15:58:10 <mgedmin> I did
Apr 01 15:58:35 <mgedmin> I was testing the insane bug (fill up the partition with a big file, say goodbye to your partition table)
Apr 01 15:58:58 <mgedmin> my current worst-case guess is there's only 1 GB of flash there, and writes to the second one just get silently redirected down to the first one
Apr 01 15:59:17 <mgedmin> I was not amused to see a blob of HTML that overwrote the MBR
Apr 01 16:04:15 <derf> mgedmin: The N810 apparently shipped with an invalid partition table on the internal card.
Apr 01 16:04:53 <derf> If that's what you're referring to (the fs in the partition table was larger than the physical card).
Apr 01 16:06:13 <script> wff? only 1GB on internal flash?
Apr 01 16:07:02 <derf> No... it's a 2GB card, but like hdd manufacturers, there's 2GB and there's 2 GB.
Apr 01 16:07:30 <script> thats ok, i just tought it's only 1GB physically
Apr 01 16:07:53 <derf> Maybe mgedmin is talking about something else... I had to practically fill the entire card to trigger it.
Apr 01 16:08:49 <mgedmin> derf: nope, that happened *after* I reformatted the too-large-2-gb to just-right-2-gb
Apr 01 16:09:11 <mgedmin> and filled up about *half* of it
Apr 01 16:09:22 <derf> Well, that is a problem, then.
Apr 01 16:09:33 <derf> I formatted mine as ext3, and all my problems went away.
Apr 01 16:09:34 <mgedmin> then suddenly filesystem readonly; reboot -> filesystem does not exits at all, partition table nuked, FAT nuked
Apr 01 16:09:43 <mgedmin> may be I should do that too
Apr 01 16:09:47 <derf> (I had _no_ _end_ of problems with FAT and the N800)
Apr 01 16:09:53 <mgedmin> hm
Apr 01 16:10:05 <mgedmin> my 4gb vfat sd card worked more or less reliably in the n800
Apr 01 16:10:17 <derf> Maemo mapper would bork the kernel driver reliably in about 15 minutes.
Apr 01 16:10:18 <mgedmin> although one 512mb sd card just died in the external slot
Apr 01 16:10:52 <derf> Card itself was totally fine, but nothing short of a full reboot would get it to work again.
Apr 01 16:19:33 <Cptnodegard> anyone used VNC? or what its called again that app that lets you stream the screen image to a computer
Apr 01 16:21:59 <GeneralAntilles> x11vnc
Apr 01 16:22:19 <GeneralAntilles> http://mike.saunby.googlepages.com/x11vncfornokia7702
Apr 01 16:35:39 <Cptnodegard> yeah that. has anyone used it and can comment on stability?
Apr 01 16:36:24 <GeneralAntilles> It works fine.
Apr 01 16:37:29 <script> depends on the server .. not every one works at all
Apr 01 16:37:38 <Cptnodegard> just saw that people are making such a fuzz about the new intil MID being and its apparent ability to be able to use wireless displays
Apr 01 16:40:01 <Navi> eh
Apr 01 16:40:08 <Navi> Ignorance is the greatest hype
Apr 01 16:40:40 <Navi> Take the iPhone for example: ZOMG A TOUCHSCREEN THATS NEW
Apr 01 16:40:57 <Cptnodegard> lol
Apr 01 16:41:06 <Cptnodegard> its multitoouch!
Apr 01 16:41:12 <Cptnodegard> so you can zoom stuff better
Apr 01 16:41:21 <Cptnodegard> ignore the fact there are devices that dont need zooming
Apr 01 16:42:14 <Navi> I prefer to spend less effort pressing a button once
Apr 01 16:56:51 <myren> is xomap a driver for xorg or is it a separate x server?
Apr 01 16:57:06 <johnx> separate xserver based on kdrive
Apr 01 16:57:22 <johnx> other kdrive servers: xfbdev xephyr
Apr 01 16:59:18 * Cptnodegard pets claws email. finally rid of that useless internal shit
Apr 01 17:01:00 <lcuk2> johnx i forgot to ask since, whats happened with your screen problem - has it been cured or are you living with a disability
Apr 01 17:01:36 <lcuk2> (i ask because someone came in with similar problem last night..)
Apr 01 17:01:48 <johnx> it hasn't been acting up as much
Apr 01 17:02:15 <lcuk2> fair enough then
Apr 01 17:02:22 <johnx> in fact lately, almost not at all
Apr 01 17:02:29 <lcuk2> is it colder ?
Apr 01 17:02:42 <lcuk2> or have you stopped running things which heat it up
Apr 01 17:02:49 <johnx> maybe a little. I hesitate to draw conclusions like that though
Apr 01 17:02:59 <johnx> I haven't been doing much hacking on debian on it
Apr 01 17:03:03 <lcuk2> yer i know what you mean
Apr 01 17:03:10 <sp3000> that's what the internet is for
Apr 01 17:03:17 <johnx> which I think was a major cause of heat
Apr 01 17:03:23 <lcuk2> but we are the internet
Apr 01 17:03:46 <sp3000> hmm
Apr 01 17:04:02 <sp3000> I think that means that from his perspective we should draw his conclusions harder
Apr 01 17:05:02 <lcuk2> johnx :) either way im glad its become stablish
Apr 01 17:05:07 <johnx> me too O_o
Apr 01 17:05:13 <fysa> do not even start to compare the UI for Maemo with the UI on the iPhone.  The iPhone requires less than half the number of taps/touches for everything.
Apr 01 17:05:35 <elb> on both pixels on its display!
Apr 01 17:05:45 <lcuk2> and how pray tell do i run vnc from iphone?
Apr 01 17:05:48 <lcuk2> or ssh
Apr 01 17:05:54 <lcuk2> or any number of specific applications
Apr 01 17:05:56 <fysa> that's why this is so frustrating. :)
Apr 01 17:06:24 <elb> I looked at an iPhone yesterday, as a matter of fact
Apr 01 17:06:29 <fysa> Maemo wins in every aspect *except* for ease/response.
Apr 01 17:06:30 <johnx> fysa, I know what you mean
Apr 01 17:06:30 <elb> and was, once again, underwhelmed
Apr 01 17:06:40 <elb> but yeah, the interface is slick
Apr 01 17:06:47 <elb> and it sure is shiny!
Apr 01 17:06:53 <elb> (rotating as you turn it, etc.)
Apr 01 17:06:57 <johnx> I have a stack of arm devices here which each have one or two killer features
Apr 01 17:07:10 <elb> although the rotation thing kind of sucks in that it has to be pretty vertical to work
Apr 01 17:07:33 <fysa> I feel trapped in some backwards world.
Apr 01 17:07:46 <konttori> has anyone made any hildon desktop applets?
Apr 01 17:07:56 <konttori> I need to know how I can debug those?
Apr 01 17:08:11 <konttori> As in how to get the command line prints to show somewhere
Apr 01 17:12:36 <sp3000> they get syslogged, right? ...right?
Apr 01 17:13:17 <konttori> so, cat /var/log/syslog .... hmm... I'll have to try that. Thanks!
Apr 01 17:15:48 <konttori> I only need to now get errors again... ;)
Apr 01 17:16:41 <konttori> I'm *so* close to getting sdl to run as desktop applet
Apr 01 17:16:52 <konttori> I already got pygame to run inside gtk window.
Apr 01 17:17:02 <konttori> so, it's just some tuning now left
Apr 01 17:19:49 <konttori> there is no syslog in the /var/log. Am I looking at the wrong place?
Apr 01 17:20:09 <johnx> no, no syslogd at all I think on itos
Apr 01 17:20:26 <johnx> ps auxc | grep syslog
Apr 01 17:20:34 <sp3000> ...by default
Apr 01 17:23:24 <sp3000> package is in sdk repo
Apr 01 17:24:16 <sp3000> (sysklogd)
Apr 01 17:39:30 <Italodance> lame_3.97_maemo.tar.gz  OHO!
Apr 01 17:45:18 <Italodance> Irsii
Apr 01 17:45:38 <Italodance> dosen't show any icon in my menu  why?
Apr 01 17:45:49 <Italodance> os 2008  maybe it is 2007 yes?
Apr 01 17:45:50 <GeneralAntilles> It's a console application.
Apr 01 17:46:00 <GeneralAntilles> Open xterm
Apr 01 17:46:04 <GeneralAntilles> type 'irsii'
Apr 01 17:46:10 <Italodance> and?
Apr 01 17:46:24 <johnx> and hit enter
Apr 01 17:46:41 <Italodance> ur mean it can works only with x-term yes?
Apr 01 17:46:51 <johnx> yes
Apr 01 17:46:54 <GeneralAntilles> Italodance, you'd really be better off with xchat.
Apr 01 17:47:06 <Italodance> xchat yes cool :D
Apr 01 17:47:47 <Italodance> GeneralAntilles  xmms has icon in menu?
Apr 01 17:48:00 <GeneralAntilles> If you're having trouble getting irsii open, you're not gonna get much further once it's open.
Apr 01 17:49:40 <derf> It might also help if you spelled it irssi.
Apr 01 17:49:40 <Italodance> GeneralAntilles  xmms has icon in menu?  or need to open it only with x-term?
Apr 01 17:50:09 <GeneralAntilles> s/irsii/irssi/
Apr 01 17:50:10 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: If you're having trouble getting irssi open, you're not gonna get much further once it's open.
Apr 01 17:50:20 <GeneralAntilles> I blame smoke inhalation, derf. :P
Apr 01 17:50:45 * GeneralAntilles 's building caught fire a couple hours ago.
Apr 01 17:51:14 <Italodance> oh
Apr 01 17:51:17 <inz> irsii sounds like ircii ;)
Apr 01 17:51:18 <lcuk2> thats not good, did you get all your nokias to safety?
Apr 01 17:51:29 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, that's what I mixed up with, inz.
Apr 01 17:51:50 <GeneralAntilles> Just the N800 and the cat. :P
Apr 01 17:52:02 <lcuk2> good plan GeneralAntilles hope it wasnt serious
Apr 01 17:52:03 <GeneralAntilles> It was a couple floors down and on the other side of this building.
Apr 01 17:52:12 <GeneralAntilles> Nah, just a couple apartments were damaged.
Apr 01 17:52:14 <derf> You have a Nokia cat?
Apr 01 17:52:14 <lcuk2> kitchen fire?
Apr 01 17:52:19 <lcuk2> cuecat
Apr 01 17:52:20 <GeneralAntilles> I think the second one was mostly smoke.
Apr 01 17:52:28 <lcuk2> or was it acecat
Apr 01 17:52:38 <lcuk2> :D lolcat
Apr 01 17:52:57 <GeneralAntilles> Dunno what started it.
Apr 01 17:53:10 <GeneralAntilles> The firedepartment evidently has a really awesome system for clearing smoke out, though.
Apr 01 17:53:19 <GeneralAntilles> Open the window, put a giant fan in the doorway.
Apr 01 17:53:25 <GeneralAntilles> Flies out of there at a million miles an hour.
Apr 01 17:53:41 <lcuk2> probably the glint from steve jobs field of awesome caught on some lesser piece of kit
Apr 01 17:54:19 <GeneralAntilles> The RFD repeater I keep in the closet went crazy and tried to kill all the Windows machines. :P
Apr 01 17:54:27 <lcuk2> its student digs isnt it?
Apr 01 17:54:37 <GeneralAntilles> Sorta
Apr 01 17:54:45 <lcuk2> that same contraption is used to blow the pot at the frat boys dorm
Apr 01 17:55:29 <GeneralAntilles> Cat: http://www.legacyoflies.com/foolsofapril/devuploads/general_antilles/cat1.jpg
Apr 01 17:55:54 <lcuk2> holy moly! that looks like my former cat
Apr 01 17:56:01 <lcuk2> got any eyes open shots
Apr 01 17:56:29 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.legacyoflies.com/foolsofapril/devuploads/general_antilles/cat2.jpg
Apr 01 17:56:33 <GeneralAntilles> Little better. :P
Apr 01 17:56:37 <GeneralAntilles> Don't think I have anything else handy.
Apr 01 17:58:20 <lcuk2> enough to tell the difference yer
Apr 01 17:58:42 <lcuk2> i was just digging through my photos, unfortunately he passed a couple of years ago so theres a lot to dig through
Apr 01 17:59:07 <GeneralAntilles> She's 11 now.
Apr 01 17:59:13 <GeneralAntilles> Haven't lost a pet in a while, thankfully.
Apr 01 18:00:06 <lcuk2> only things we lost recently are hamsters - when squeek passed we got a couple of young cats from the sanctury :)
Apr 01 18:00:41 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.google.com/virgle/application.html
Apr 01 18:00:44 <lcuk2> one is a long haired black and his gay best mate :) missus wanted kittens but i was heartbroken and didnt wanna leave em there
Apr 01 18:11:09 <GeneralAntilles> It's announced.
Apr 01 18:15:31 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: "it" being Virgle or something Maemo related?
Apr 01 18:15:45 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=163447#post163447
Apr 01 18:15:59 <GeneralAntilles> Q2 2008
Apr 01 18:16:05 <GeneralAntilles> Hopefully that doesn't mean June. :\
Apr 01 18:16:11 <Jaffa> Why isn't ITT news on pmo anymore?
Apr 01 18:16:24 <Jaffa> Gatestone: you know Nokia - they *always* push deadlines to the latest possible
Apr 01 18:16:32 <Jaffa> Bah. Bad BitchX
Apr 01 18:16:37 <Jaffa> s/Gatestone/GeneralAntilles/
Apr 01 18:16:45 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Apr 01 18:16:50 <GeneralAntilles> I was wondering.
Apr 01 18:16:53 <inz> Jaffa, guess why I don't use tab completion ;)
Apr 01 18:17:01 <GeneralAntilles> I didn't think I had more than one person in here on my ignore list. :P
Apr 01 18:17:21 <Jaffa> inz: I didn't - it was ':' completion, irritatingly.
Apr 01 18:17:41 <inz> Jaffa, ah, indeed, now I remember what BiaatchX did
Apr 01 18:17:56 <inz> Jaffa, I used it some time, but only for the ascii artz
Apr 01 18:20:35 <zedstar_> so is wimax available in europe any where yet?
Apr 01 18:20:51 <Jaffa> zedstar_: UK best bet is http://www.solution4.com/ which has trials in some places
Apr 01 18:21:33 <zedstar_> thanks jaffa that site appears down right now
Apr 01 18:23:59 * GeneralAntilles wants to know what the connection dialog looks like for WiMAX
Apr 01 18:24:33 <Jaffa> http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_wme_en_R1.html confirms update brings "seamless software update"
Apr 01 18:25:21 <GeneralAntilles> 3 hours on WiMAX. :<
Apr 01 18:26:21 <MangoFusion> "3 hours on WiMAX"
Apr 01 18:26:26 <GeneralAntilles> Be nice if the SSU also means they can push updates to things like MicroB more than once every 6 months.
Apr 01 18:26:30 <MangoFusion> hey, i might as well just use my phone
Apr 01 18:26:53 <GeneralAntilles> That's about the same use time I get out of my handset with 3g.
Apr 01 18:26:53 <zedstar_> how easy/expensive is it for joe public to install there own wimax base station/router? the kit expensive or require licenses?
Apr 01 18:27:02 <blafasel> GeneralAntilles: Nice question, regarding the connection dialog
Apr 01 18:27:15 <blafasel> The current dialog probably doesn't scale for 2-3 miles of range. ;-p
Apr 01 18:27:45 <GeneralAntilles> Wonder what the icon looks like, too.
Apr 01 18:28:25 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm
Apr 01 18:28:30 <GeneralAntilles> Are they gonna have international versions?
Apr 01 18:28:41 <GeneralAntilles> "N810 WiMAX Edition is only available in the US"
Apr 01 18:29:43 <Cptnodegard> wimax is dooomed
Apr 01 18:30:01 <megabyte405> seamless software update is presumably Diablo
Apr 01 18:30:18 <GeneralAntilles> lol? http://www.nokia.com/A4138056
Apr 01 18:30:18 <megabyte405> it's been a roadmap feature since the days of Bora
Apr 01 18:30:32 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, we know it's Diablo.
Apr 01 18:31:50 <blafasel> What's with that link? Dead for me
Apr 01 18:31:57 <megabyte405> wow, diablo "in the second quarter of the year"?  I might jump right from bora to diablo on my n800...
Apr 01 18:32:31 <GeneralAntilles> Weird
Apr 01 18:32:42 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia's being stupid and dynamic or something
Apr 01 18:32:54 <blafasel> Talking about the link?
Apr 01 18:32:54 <GeneralAntilles> blafasel, check out their press photos for the N810WE
Apr 01 18:33:01 <Jaffa> megabyte405: yes - it's been on the roadmap, but there's no guarantee they'd've delivered it
Apr 01 18:33:05 <GeneralAntilles> There's a giant lump on the back of it like the N800. :P
Apr 01 18:33:24 <KotCzarny> don't forget today is april 1st
Apr 01 18:33:29 * KotCzarny yawns
Apr 01 18:33:43 <KotCzarny> wait with analysis till tomorrow
Apr 01 18:33:44 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 18:36:58 <KaaLi> its just rude to play ppl like that
Apr 01 18:37:45 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, don't play ppl!
Apr 01 18:38:15 <KaaLi> *with   :D
Apr 01 18:40:16 <cymacs> does anybody know how to convert gps data saved with gps_saver to gpx or anything else?
Apr 01 18:41:43 <tsukasa> OMG N900 announced
Apr 01 18:42:03 <GeneralAntilles> Clever, tsukasa.
Apr 01 18:42:20 <tsukasa> hey theres 288 people here
Apr 01 18:42:44 <tsukasa> mightve gotten one or two for a second
Apr 01 18:42:54 <ralann> riiiight
Apr 01 18:43:21 <tsukasa> youd be suprised how many people are oblivious to the date
Apr 01 18:43:33 <ralann> true
Apr 01 18:43:43 <elb> you'd be surprised how many people see 'OMG' and dismiss the remainder of what a person says
Apr 01 18:43:48 <ralann> i will believe nothing till tomorrow
Apr 01 18:44:11 <ralann> OMG a nokia brain implant
Apr 01 18:44:29 <megabyte405> using bluetooth 3.0!
Apr 01 18:44:31 <ralann> http://www.nokiausa.com/brains
Apr 01 18:44:32 <tsukasa> ralann, what if you use gmail to send yourself an important message back in time warning you of your impending doom?
Apr 01 18:46:06 <doc|work> s/impending doom/this conversation
Apr 01 18:47:20 <aquatix> http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/01/nokias-n810-internet-tablet-wimax-edition-gets-official/ already posted here?
Apr 01 18:47:31 <KotCzarny> april first
Apr 01 18:47:36 <KotCzarny> wait till tomorrow
Apr 01 18:47:37 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 18:47:51 <aquatix> KotCzarny: guy i know from nokia says this one is official :)
Apr 01 18:48:04 <KotCzarny> april 1st
Apr 01 18:48:06 <aquatix> KotCzarny: also look at the pictures
Apr 01 18:48:07 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 18:48:12 <aquatix> heheh
Apr 01 18:48:17 * aquatix is not *that* stupid ;)
Apr 01 18:48:19 <ralann> i say tomorrow
Apr 01 18:48:29 <GeneralAntilles> It's real, duh. :\
Apr 01 18:49:08 <lcdd> "do not show this dialog again." i could use a few of those
Apr 01 18:49:20 <aquatix> lcdd: yeah
Apr 01 18:49:42 <doc|work> I fucking hate april 1st
Apr 01 18:50:04 <doc|work> real news is bad enough without an official day of fake news
Apr 01 18:50:18 <ralann> im hiding in my house all day and am not turning the tv on
Apr 01 18:51:08 <KaaLi>  http://www.virginmedia.com/money/features/us-to-scrap-dollar-and-join-euro.php?vmsrc=vmhpld
Apr 01 18:51:17 <KotCzarny> doh
Apr 01 18:51:23 <doc|work> this is as far as I'm delving into the internet today
Apr 01 18:51:26 <KotCzarny> stop posting aplil fools links
Apr 01 18:51:27 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 18:51:34 <doc|work> KaaLi: hey man, give it time, that one may come true yet
Apr 01 18:52:03 <KaaLi> if it goes down as it has been goin lately..  some day it might happen..
Apr 01 18:52:31 <doc|work> nah, if anything they're trying to push the US into some north american currency
Apr 01 18:52:33 <KotCzarny> yeah
Apr 01 18:52:36 <KotCzarny> nwo
Apr 01 18:52:37 <KotCzarny> etc.
Apr 01 18:52:39 <doc|work> indeed
Apr 01 18:52:49 <KaaLi> 10 USD = 1 euro in 2010
Apr 01 18:52:55 <doc|work> i.e. more of the same, only you have even less chance of being influential
Apr 01 18:54:25 <doc|work> now I know why I hate april 1st, it makes every site on the internet read like a bad copy of the onion
Apr 01 18:56:25 <KotCzarny> there are layers, all the way to the bottom
Apr 01 18:56:26 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 18:56:41 <pupnik> turtles
Apr 01 18:56:46 <KotCzarny> layers
Apr 01 18:56:51 <KotCzarny> turtles have layers
Apr 01 18:56:57 <KotCzarny> onion has layers
Apr 01 18:57:02 <KotCzarny> turtles have layers
Apr 01 18:57:18 * doc|work read that as lawyers
Apr 01 18:57:20 <pupnik> turtles h
Apr 01 18:57:21 <MangoFusion> some of the more annoying april fools jokes are ones where the fooler starts the fooling before april 1st
Apr 01 18:57:22 <pupnik> me too
Apr 01 18:57:31 <doc|work> was thinking, why the fuck would turtles need lawyers
Apr 01 18:57:46 <KotCzarny> hehe
Apr 01 18:58:07 <KaaLi> depends about timezone
Apr 01 18:58:09 <aquatix> doc|work: heh, me too :)
Apr 01 18:58:24 <MangoFusion> KaaLi: this is days before
Apr 01 18:59:28 <ricko73> where do I find a missing libhildonfm2 (1:1.9.49)
Apr 01 19:00:02 <aquatix> google? :)
Apr 01 19:00:10 <ricko73> google didn't help much
Apr 01 19:00:41 <ricko73> there were very few links to libhildonfm2 that were specific to the nokia n-series
Apr 01 19:00:59 <megabyte405> ricko73: make sure you are using the right version of the sdk
Apr 01 19:01:08 <megabyte405> you may be compiling chinook software on bora
Apr 01 19:01:36 <ricko73> megabyte405: I have an as received n810
Apr 01 19:01:51 <KotCzarny> apt-cache search hildonfm
Apr 01 19:01:55 <megabyte405> oh, I see, you are installing
Apr 01 19:02:15 <megabyte405> First, upgrade your firmware (reflash - it will erase everything) before you get further
Apr 01 19:02:19 <ricko73> I'll have to ask the package maintainer (for roadmap --a gps/mapping program) how he had it compiled
Apr 01 19:02:29 <ricko73> I think I have the latest version
Apr 01 19:02:32 <megabyte405> you'll need software with a OS2008 version
Apr 01 19:02:40 <megabyte405> If you just got it from the factory you probably don't
Apr 01 19:02:59 <ricko73> 1.2007.42-19
Apr 01 19:03:13 <ricko73> I thought that was the latest
Apr 01 19:03:36 <GeneralAntilles> 51-3 is latest.
Apr 01 19:04:10 <ricko73> Ok.  Thanks.  I guess I'll have to reflash (then redownload the apps I installed)
Apr 01 19:04:33 * aquatix wonders when Diablo will be available for download
Apr 01 19:04:44 <aquatix> Q2 has already begun :)
Apr 01 19:04:44 <KotCzarny> it will be when it will be
Apr 01 19:04:48 <KaaLi> backup first
Apr 01 19:04:56 <aquatix> KotCzarny: true
Apr 01 19:04:57 <ricko73> KaaLi: thx
Apr 01 19:05:00 <aquatix> just wondering :)
Apr 01 19:05:05 <KotCzarny> </phb>
Apr 01 19:05:06 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 19:05:17 <KotCzarny> better port/write new software
Apr 01 19:05:19 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 19:05:32 <KotCzarny> than simply consuming new shinyness
Apr 01 19:05:44 <GeneralAntilles> Judging by the state of Modest, it's probably going to be a little while longer.
Apr 01 19:06:23 <aquatix> i will
Apr 01 19:06:23 <aquatix> when i'm done being so freaking busy
Apr 01 19:06:49 <aquatix> GeneralAntilles: that's ok, i prefer having a polished flash
Apr 01 19:06:56 <aquatix> hopefully with an updated gecko
Apr 01 19:08:24 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: http://nds3.nokia.com/pressphotos/public/global/devices/n810/N810WiMAX5_Lowres.jpg shows the bump
Apr 01 19:09:00 <Jaffa> And http://nds3.nokia.com/pressphotos/public/global/devices/n810/N810WiMAX4_lowres.jpg has the connection dialogue (and Xohm logo in the status bar)
Apr 01 19:09:15 <KotCzarny> looks shopped
Apr 01 19:09:20 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 19:09:36 <Jaffa> KotCzarny: it's getting a little tiring now; this is official, OK? :)
Apr 01 19:09:37 <Daviey> Has anyone worked out how to use .install files from the console?
Apr 01 19:09:54 <Jaffa> Daviey: some form of DBus invocation's your best bet, I reckon
Apr 01 19:09:57 <KotCzarny> jaffa: just kidding, but i will seriously wait for tomorrow
Apr 01 19:10:04 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 19:10:16 <ricko73> yeah, I'm nervous installing anything today
Apr 01 19:10:20 <konttori> Ah. hey, we've launched the wimax apparently
Apr 01 19:10:22 <konttori> cool!
Apr 01 19:10:42 <Daviey> Jaffa: seriously?!
Apr 01 19:10:43 <aquatix>  http://www.virginmedia.com/money/features/us-to-scrap-dollar-and-join-euro.php?vmsrc=vmhpld
Apr 01 19:10:48 <aquatix> woops
Apr 01 19:11:11 <Jaffa> KotCzarny: OK, but everytime someone mentions it, can you not type two lines: one containing an 2008-04-01 reference and the other a smiley? Please?
Apr 01 19:11:20 <konttori> Jaffa: Yeah, seamless updates is really nice feature
Apr 01 19:11:25 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 19:11:31 <aquatix> Jaffa: /ignore? ;)
Apr 01 19:11:36 <Jaffa> konttori: very cool; now, can we have a diablo beta? :)
Apr 01 19:11:42 <konttori> We've been working really hard to gt it just right
Apr 01 19:11:46 <Jaffa> aquatix: a *little* harsh, perhaps
Apr 01 19:11:51 <aquatix> Jaffa: nah ;)
Apr 01 19:12:11 * aquatix ducks while KotCzarny throws an old 770 with sharpened edges to his head
Apr 01 19:12:12 <konttori> Jaffa: Interesting question.
Apr 01 19:12:19 <KotCzarny> erm
Apr 01 19:12:23 <KotCzarny> no 770s here
Apr 01 19:12:26 <Jaffa> konttori: glad to hear it. Does it mean we're likely to see more updates to the components, or are upgrades still going to be one or two times a year affairs?
Apr 01 19:12:31 <KotCzarny> and i like my 800 too much
Apr 01 19:12:38 <KotCzarny> but i can throw an old ipod
Apr 01 19:12:42 <KotCzarny> (heavy)
Apr 01 19:12:43 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 19:13:22 <doc|work> anyone got info on changes to OS?
Apr 01 19:13:32 <konttori> Can't confirm, but at least I can say that it should be easier for the end users to receive incremental updates.
Apr 01 19:13:46 <GeneralAntilles>  /ignore works nicely.
Apr 01 19:13:57 <lcuk2> yes, nokia are proud to announce they are working with microsoft to release Windows Vista N series edition ;)
Apr 01 19:13:57 <konttori> With flashing, it's not nice to flash a small patch and have to reinstall everything
Apr 01 19:14:16 <konttori> So, at least SSU is enabler for that
Apr 01 19:14:19 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, I really hope so.
Apr 01 19:14:33 <konttori> Also, SSU also allows 3rd party (that's you guys) application updates
Apr 01 19:14:34 <Jaffa> konttori: cool, hopefully the project planners will take advantage of the "release early, release often" approach and not still fall back on big-bang releases.
Apr 01 19:14:41 <aquatix> doc|work: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17727 has some stuff
Apr 01 19:14:46 <aquatix> meh, stupid lag
Apr 01 19:14:48 <GeneralAntilles> It'd be awfully stupid of them not to leverage this for more smaller releases.
Apr 01 19:14:49 <Jaffa> konttori: aren't we supposed to have that already with App Manager?
Apr 01 19:15:00 <Jaffa> konttori: or does SSU totally replace App Mgr?
Apr 01 19:15:03 <GeneralAntilles> Who knows, though, the UI spec probably has something in there about only updating once every 6 months. <_<
Apr 01 19:15:09 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: :)
Apr 01 19:15:15 <lcuk2> konttori, is this update process in response to things which could be easily patched but which full flash hassle prevents?  if so - what fixes have you got lined up?
Apr 01 19:15:17 <konttori> Well, now end users will actually get notified directly of new updates to 3rd party apps as well
Apr 01 19:15:38 <KaaLi> ill believe that tomorrow..  :P
Apr 01 19:15:44 <doc|work> aquatix: thanks
Apr 01 19:16:04 <konttori> lcuk2: indeed. No idea what we might patch/fix/whatnot though
Apr 01 19:16:36 <GeneralAntilles> I'd _really_ like to see MicroB back on the update-every-few-weeks schedule.
Apr 01 19:16:39 <lcuk2> excellent :)
Apr 01 19:16:44 <GeneralAntilles> Especially with how fast Gecko is moving.
Apr 01 19:16:49 <Jaffa> konttori: sounds interesting. Now, the two things which depress me: a) I'm sure the maemo community could've had some good contributions to make to the UI and spec of SSU; b) we're not going to get to see it/play with it before end-users do. So the power-users who help users on ITT etc. will not be ahead of the game.
Apr 01 19:17:03 <doc|work> also, is the price of the wimax more than the n810 or is a drop in the vanilla n810 price expected?
Apr 01 19:17:16 <aquatix> GeneralAntilles: yeah
Apr 01 19:17:20 * Jaffa doubts anyone but sales & marketing could answer that
Apr 01 19:17:46 <doc|work> ok, thought someone might have seen an answer somewhere
Apr 01 19:18:10 <GeneralAntilles> N810 already had a small drop to $439
Apr 01 19:18:15 <konttori> Hehey!!! Check it out: http://www.nseries.com/index.html#l=workshop,recent
Apr 01 19:18:38 <konttori> I got interviewed yesterday.
Apr 01 19:18:41 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Apr 01 19:18:42 <konttori> And it's live now.
Apr 01 19:18:57 <konttori> Ahh.. the correct link: http://www.nseries.com/index.html#l=workshop,articles,414
Apr 01 19:19:44 <konttori> That was a crash interview: I got notified 5 minutes prior. Then  I called new york, talked for an hour on the phone and blam. That's what you see.
Apr 01 19:19:48 <ricko73> GeneralAntilles: I bought my n810 from Amazon for under $400
Apr 01 19:20:00 <GeneralAntilles> ricko73, that's MSRP
Apr 01 19:20:03 <ricko73> gotcha
Apr 01 19:20:06 <GeneralAntilles> Street has little to do with MSRP. :P
Apr 01 19:20:17 <konttori> Jaffa: SSU is really so simple piece UI wise that there was no need to notify anyone.
Apr 01 19:20:17 <ralann> i got mine for $365
Apr 01 19:20:28 <KaaLi> it stil says april 1st..
Apr 01 19:20:29 <Jaffa> konttori: fair enough
Apr 01 19:20:45 <ricko73> understood.  didn't realize that MSRP actually changed after a device was initially released
Apr 01 19:20:45 <Jaffa> konttori: so there'll be no bugs or wishes that the UI did such & such? :)
Apr 01 19:21:04 <konttori> Nope. It's just perfect  ! ;)
Apr 01 19:21:21 <KaaLi> no1 will remember n810wimax next week...  :D
Apr 01 19:21:34 <Jaffa> konttori: all bugs straight assigned to you then ;-)
Apr 01 19:21:43 <konttori> Please, go ahead.
Apr 01 19:21:53 * lcuk2 also writes "perfect" software.  strange how theres always something missed ;)
Apr 01 19:22:05 <KotCzarny> lcuk: rotate
Apr 01 19:22:06 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 19:22:22 <lcuk2> THANK YOU :D
Apr 01 19:22:25 * Jaffa had a "perfect" Java web framework componentisation earlier today. This evening additional unit tests are failing :-/
Apr 01 19:22:43 <konttori> rotation won't make it. Sorry.
Apr 01 19:22:52 <lcuk2> it will in my kernel tonight :)
Apr 01 19:23:18 <lcuk2> ive been writing a fullscreen fullspeed tear free renderer thing and i wanna see things from a different perspective
Apr 01 19:23:22 <Jaffa> konttori: your interview references "Web Runtime" - wassat?
Apr 01 19:23:26 <KotCzarny> hehe
Apr 01 19:23:32 <KotCzarny> pixel perfect?
Apr 01 19:24:02 <lcuk2> better than it was, im just finishing picking up freetype and getting the aspect ratio better
Apr 01 19:24:04 <glass> Jaffa: widgets for s60
Apr 01 19:24:15 <glass> Jaffa: web pages that look like programs
Apr 01 19:24:22 <KotCzarny> don't forget about subpixel order
Apr 01 19:24:29 <KotCzarny> unless you don't use subpixel rendering?
Apr 01 19:24:49 <glass> Jaffa: basically you make a zip, send it over, it installs the page as an app to the app browser...
Apr 01 19:24:50 <lcuk2> im in yuv so its not that important
Apr 01 19:24:58 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 01 19:25:00 <KotCzarny> probably
Apr 01 19:25:00 <glass> Jaffa: and launches it without the browser full gui
Apr 01 19:25:11 <Jaffa> glass: "Q: What can people expect from the latest N810? A: [...] Especially now that we have great Python bindings and the support for Web Run-Time, the community should find it very easy to create the same kind of applications that Apple is doing on their dashboard.@
Apr 01 19:25:28 <Jaffa> So not just for S60 anymore. Will have to look into a bit more
Apr 01 19:25:28 <lcuk2> well which order should i put my pixels, grey, grey, grey or grey, grey, grey ???
Apr 01 19:25:40 <glass> Jaffa: i guess they've got it over there too then, like said, just web pages that look more like proper programs
Apr 01 19:25:42 <Jaffa> lcuk2: no - grey, grey, grey
Apr 01 19:25:56 <KotCzarny> no, grey gray grey grey
Apr 01 19:25:56 <glass> Jaffa: new n95 firmware has it
Apr 01 19:25:57 <konttori> well, web runtime applets are now at your disposal for the desktop
Apr 01 19:26:02 <KotCzarny> alpha gray
Apr 01 19:26:12 <Jaffa> glass: interesting. Hopefully ones working for S60 (for which I assume there's an existing community) should work without modification on ITOS
Apr 01 19:26:30 <glass> Jaffa: i'd assume many of the s60 widgets to assume the screen sizes to be small
Apr 01 19:26:36 <Jaffa> konttori: cool. Is the responsiveness of the desktop and general usability of the home screen OK?
Apr 01 19:26:44 <lcuk2> konttori :) hope the rollout goes smoothly.    ill b back later
Apr 01 19:26:45 <konttori> They run on gecko engine, so you probably can run pretty much anything with them
Apr 01 19:27:02 <glass> Jaffa: dunno about the community yet as it's not really on too many devices
Apr 01 19:27:20 <GeneralAntilles> Woo
Apr 01 19:27:22 <GeneralAntilles> "Update All"
Apr 01 19:27:26 <konttori> Jaffa: Well, it's doing quite fancy 'server rendering' of the widgets
Apr 01 19:27:30 <glass> Jaffa: i was rather surprised they ported it back to n95, the nokias browser guy didn't promise that last june
Apr 01 19:27:33 <Jaffa> Ah, fair enough. New then. Still, leveraging the larger sales and communities (and hype) of the N95 et al should help us as users
Apr 01 19:27:40 <KotCzarny> ok, bbl
Apr 01 19:27:49 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: indeed, two little words with so much joy
Apr 01 19:28:08 <glass> Jaffa: yeah, i'd imagine it will be used for weather applets and the like.. small information displayers
Apr 01 19:28:10 <GeneralAntilles> Hopefully it's stopped crashing after every 3rd install. <_<
Apr 01 19:28:52 <konttori> Anyway, as I said in the interview, the python desktop applet bindings are really cool as well. I totally recommend checking them out even now.
Apr 01 19:28:58 <glass> Jaffa: it's a very easy way for web devs to get something 'cool' running on a phone easily so i'd expect the community to grow rapidly soon
Apr 01 19:29:27 <GeneralAntilles> Nice interview, konttori.
Apr 01 19:29:34 <konttori> thanks.
Apr 01 19:30:36 <konttori> GA: what was crashing every 3rd install?
Apr 01 19:30:44 <GeneralAntilles> Application manager
Apr 01 19:30:48 <GeneralAntilles> It's not that regular
Apr 01 19:30:59 <konttori> It was crashing every 3rd? Odd. Anyway, it's stable now.
Apr 01 19:31:04 <GeneralAntilles> But it was a pain when I was trying to restore everything after a flash about a month ago.
Apr 01 19:32:20 <Jaffa> konttori: yeah, it was a good interview.
Apr 01 19:34:20 <konttori> Let's see how well the device sells. I honestly have no idea how big the market will be for XOHM network, what's the price point of the device or anything like that.
Apr 01 19:35:08 <GeneralAntilles> Seems there's no mention of non-US models yet. :\
Apr 01 19:35:15 <GeneralAntilles> That could put a dampener on things.
Apr 01 19:35:39 <konttori> I hope it will sell well though. I would say that the keyboard has better feel than n810
Apr 01 19:35:57 <konttori> GA: That will depend on how well wimax networks are sold elsewhere.
Apr 01 19:36:00 <freki> hello every body
Apr 01 19:36:08 <konttori> Currently Sprint is really on top of the wimax game
Apr 01 19:36:20 <GeneralAntilles> Canada has very strong coverage with Rogers.
Apr 01 19:36:52 <konttori> the special part about the n810 WE and the sprint network is that it allows you to 'switch' cells on the fly like GSM phone switches them while yo are on the move.
Apr 01 19:36:57 <freki> i have a probleme for update my 770 tu OS2006, does somebody can help me ?
Apr 01 19:36:58 <Jaffa> AIUI, Canada's got the best WiMAX coverage in the world
Apr 01 19:37:20 <konttori> Well, go ahead and call your nearest Rogers to stock them up!
Apr 01 19:37:53 <Jaffa> konttori: so, hectic time until 31st June getting it ready for release and then rolling out to depots. Then you moving on to the N900?
Apr 01 19:38:08 <elb> I'd be shocked if 15% of Canada was covered
Apr 01 19:38:13 <GeneralAntilles> Hehehe, Jaffa.
Apr 01 19:38:17 <elb> I guess it depends on how you define 'best'
Apr 01 19:38:18 <konttori> Jaffa: if you only knew...
Apr 01 19:38:25 <konttori> But yeah, it's hectic at the moment
Apr 01 19:38:34 * GeneralAntilles wants OMAP3
Apr 01 19:38:38 * GeneralAntilles wants OMAP3 baaaad
Apr 01 19:38:55 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: it was worth a try ;-)
Apr 01 19:39:00 * aquatix just wants peace in has damn head
Apr 01 19:39:11 <GeneralAntilles> I still say we should get a retirement fund started for Texrat.
Apr 01 19:39:12 <Jaffa> aquatix: the sound of drums again?
Apr 01 19:39:26 <aquatix> Jaffa: the sound of deadlines zipping by at light speed
Apr 01 19:48:07 <konttori> Jaffa: Did it say somewhere that the device is out on 31st of june?
Apr 01 19:48:41 <Jaffa> 2Q2008. I'm trying to be realistic/pessimistic/cynical.
Apr 01 19:48:42 * konttori actually doesn't know that date.. We've been more concerned on the dates the firmware has to go to the factory lines.
Apr 01 19:49:00 <KaaLi> first of all..   is it ever out..  still april 1st..  :D
Apr 01 19:49:03 * Jaffa doesn't remember a time when Nokia haven't used all the time available to them when giving a deadline like that
Apr 01 19:49:37 <Jaffa> KaaLi: it's official. If I hear any more "it's an April Fools' joke" comments, I swear I'm going to scream :)
Apr 01 19:49:49 <konttori> Jaffa: Also, Diablo doesn't have the 'same' WRT support as n95, as we have gecko, symbian has webkit.
Apr 01 19:50:08 <KaaLi> jaffa: like a little girl..?
Apr 01 19:50:11 <konttori> Of course the result should be the same.
Apr 01 19:50:32 <ralann> i would believe it till tomorrow
Apr 01 19:50:59 <Jaffa> konttori: yeah, I'll believe that when I see it. Advanced widgetry compatible across render engines?
Apr 01 19:51:00 <glass> konttori: i havent been following, did they add nokia spesific apis for wrt?
Apr 01 19:51:21 <Jaffa> KaaLi: No, like someone trying to discuss something seriously whilst also trying to meet work deadlines
Apr 01 19:53:08 <konttori> glass: I haven't been involved directly on the WRT part, so can't comment on the specifics.
Apr 01 19:53:09 <Jaffa> KaaLi: sorry, it's just it's not a new joke :)
Apr 01 19:53:24 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, how much you wanna bet it wont be out until late July? :P
Apr 01 19:53:52 <GeneralAntilles> Or maybe Diablo [i]is[/i] OS2009 and it's coming out in November. :D
Apr 01 19:54:01 <GeneralAntilles> O_o
Apr 01 19:54:04 <GeneralAntilles> BBCode
Apr 01 19:54:31 <GeneralAntilles> . . . proof positive that I've been spending too much time on ITT.
Apr 01 19:56:46 <pupnik> the diablo thread was pretty funny
Apr 01 19:56:54 <Jaffa> I think your prolific posting rate is sign of that!
Apr 01 20:00:17 <GeneralAntilles> That post by robin in the "I don't understand" thread made me laugh.
Apr 01 20:17:44 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 01 20:18:01 <KotCzarny> i think jott's xomap patch still breakes xv
Apr 01 20:18:04 <KotCzarny> breakes
Apr 01 20:18:18 <KotCzarny> brakes
Apr 01 20:18:20 <KotCzarny> darmn
Apr 01 20:18:25 <KotCzarny> damn.
Apr 01 20:19:52 <MangoFusion> updated your kernel?
Apr 01 20:20:07 * lcuk2 . o O ( maybe i won't install rotate after all )
Apr 01 20:20:10 <KotCzarny> no, it rotates ok
Apr 01 20:20:19 <KotCzarny> lcuk, but it may be only my n800
Apr 01 20:20:27 <KotCzarny> i would like you to test it
Apr 01 20:20:36 <KotCzarny> so i won't run in circles
Apr 01 20:20:37 <lcuk2> by the way, i have dpi free scaling of fonts now :) i dropped sdl_ttf :)
Apr 01 20:20:42 <KotCzarny> hehe
Apr 01 20:20:55 <GeneralAntilles> Now with less suck!
Apr 01 20:21:00 <KotCzarny> mango: problem i have with kernel
Apr 01 20:21:05 <KotCzarny> erm. with mplayer
Apr 01 20:21:08 <lcuk2> at the 225dpi this device is at a 16 point font is massive :)
Apr 01 20:21:12 <KotCzarny> and it's too hot to think
Apr 01 20:21:57 <lcuk2> GeneralAntilles, it never sucked anyway - i discovered why you didnt get full speed and added a later -turbo option and stuff
Apr 01 20:22:27 <lcuk2> i wonder if we can mirror
Apr 01 20:22:38 <lcuk2> not just rotate
Apr 01 20:22:42 <KotCzarny> probably
Apr 01 20:22:53 <KotCzarny> xrandr should do rotation and mirroring
Apr 01 20:23:03 <lcuk2> xrandrandm
Apr 01 20:23:23 <KotCzarny> i can't test right now because i have tried reflashing original kernel
Apr 01 20:24:11 <GeneralAntilles> -turbo sets 400MHz all the time?
Apr 01 20:24:11 <lcuk2> im glad i took out the sdl_ttf ref :) its another less thing to worry about having installed
Apr 01 20:24:36 <lcuk2> no, turbo adjusts the omdemand threshhold for the run of the program
Apr 01 20:24:54 <GeneralAntilles> Ah
Apr 01 20:24:56 <lcuk2> its doing so little and optimised so well that its under the default 80% that its set to
Apr 01 20:24:58 <Jaffa> lcuk2: what are you actually full screen rendering?
Apr 01 20:24:58 <GeneralAntilles> Right, I remember
Apr 01 20:25:05 <lcuk2> just test
Apr 01 20:25:08 <lcuk2> text
Apr 01 20:25:21 <lcuk2> and lines and dots and maybe circles when i put the code in
Apr 01 20:25:31 <lcuk2> and pictures when i get a yuv jpeg loader ;)
Apr 01 20:25:35 <Jaffa> ah, so proof-of-concept type stuff
Apr 01 20:25:50 <lcuk2> yer im just playing - i want fullscreen tear free screen updates
Apr 01 20:26:04 <lcuk2> (for a book reader)
Apr 01 20:26:19 <lcuk2> oh kot, i also dug out my pdf parser
Apr 01 20:26:24 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 20:26:32 <KotCzarny> why not using poppler?
Apr 01 20:26:42 <KotCzarny> unless you want only text from pdfs
Apr 01 20:26:48 <lcuk2> wanna see how full pdf pages look at tearfree :)
Apr 01 20:27:02 <KotCzarny> hehe
Apr 01 20:27:19 <lcuk2> ive wrote loads of tiny mods to play with different aspects of it - like the starfield
Apr 01 20:27:24 <lcuk2> and the book test
Apr 01 20:27:32 <lcuk2> and a little drawing proggy
Apr 01 20:28:15 <Jaffa> lcuk2: cool
Apr 01 20:29:00 <lcuk2> it certainly is, i just need to learn enough about licensing and repos and blogs and all that jibe so i can get them tested and see what we can do with them (if anything)
Apr 01 20:30:47 <lcuk2> web and or server space isnt that expensive nowadays is it?
Apr 01 20:30:58 <lcuk2> or am i best of sticking to googlepages or blogger or something
Apr 01 20:31:50 <KotCzarny> depends how reliable you need it to be
Apr 01 20:31:54 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 20:32:03 <Jaffa> garage project?
Apr 01 20:32:04 <jott> lcuk2: using some ready service will probably shorten the time until we see your code :P
Apr 01 20:32:19 <KotCzarny> jott: i believe xomap randr patch is buggy..
Apr 01 20:32:30 <jott> when/where?
Apr 01 20:32:40 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk2, remember, release early, release often. ;)
Apr 01 20:32:44 <KotCzarny> i can't play videos using nokia770 or xv drivers
Apr 01 20:32:46 <KotCzarny> with mplayer
Apr 01 20:32:49 <lcuk2> jaffa im not a member.. but membership has bonuses doesnt it
Apr 01 20:33:06 <jott> rotated or not rotated?
Apr 01 20:33:10 <KotCzarny> doesn't matter
Apr 01 20:33:18 <KotCzarny> black screen
Apr 01 20:33:25 <jott> hm i bet you have v1 ;)
Apr 01 20:33:29 <KotCzarny> no
Apr 01 20:33:34 <KotCzarny> i have reinstalled newer package
Apr 01 20:33:36 <Jaffa> lcuk2: indeed, such as increased karma => better chance of discount on next device
Apr 01 20:33:39 <jott> KotCzarny: of kernel
Apr 01 20:33:43 <KotCzarny> kernel too
Apr 01 20:33:55 <lcuk2> jaffa :) i read that, i may just have to joinup then
Apr 01 20:34:02 <lcuk2> the garage has cvs doesnt it
Apr 01 20:34:03 <KotCzarny> but i have tried flashing original kernel (unpatched)
Apr 01 20:34:09 <Jaffa> lcuk2: svn, so even better
Apr 01 20:34:18 <KotCzarny> jott: i have to test it still
Apr 01 20:34:19 <lcuk2> fairy muff
Apr 01 20:34:28 <jott> KotCzarny: please do so
Apr 01 20:34:33 <KotCzarny> how to update to original xomap?
Apr 01 20:34:52 <jott> just dpkg -i xser*deb
Apr 01 20:35:04 <KotCzarny> ahm, so no apt-get type automation?
Apr 01 20:35:15 <KotCzarny> or --force-reinstall ?
Apr 01 20:35:25 <jott> no.. due to osso-software-version borkness
Apr 01 20:35:31 <KotCzarny> heh
Apr 01 20:35:39 <KotCzarny> i should find the deb then
Apr 01 20:35:59 <jott> erm
Apr 01 20:36:34 <KotCzarny> btw. using rotation command on unpatched kernel + patched xomap is fun ;)
Apr 01 20:37:05 <lcuk2> lol @ rollback procedures ;)
Apr 01 20:37:12 <KotCzarny> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/x/xorg-server/
Apr 01 20:37:13 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 01 20:37:19 <KotCzarny> this one is ok?
Apr 01 20:37:32 <jott> if there where any debs :)
Apr 01 20:37:39 <KotCzarny> oh
Apr 01 20:37:43 <KotCzarny> silly me
Apr 01 20:37:44 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 20:37:52 <jott> yeah it seems to be missing
Apr 01 20:41:48 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 01 20:43:59 <KotCzarny> how can i get a server name from which deb would be taken?
Apr 01 20:44:35 <oob> Nokia Nerds
Apr 01 20:44:41 <KotCzarny> where?
Apr 01 20:45:08 <oob> there! ->
Apr 01 20:45:17 <KotCzarny> black space
Apr 01 20:45:21 <KotCzarny> nothing's there
Apr 01 20:45:46 <oob> i see nerd people and some of them.. ..live here!
Apr 01 20:45:56 <KotCzarny> i see nothing
Apr 01 20:46:03 <KotCzarny> maybe i'm not nerdish enough
Apr 01 20:46:04 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 20:46:08 <KotCzarny> or too much
Apr 01 20:46:09 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 20:46:46 <celesteh> hey, so if you put gps city guide and maemo mapper togther in a cage fight . . . .
Apr 01 20:47:16 <celesteh> are they complimentary or competing?  Which is better?
Apr 01 20:51:39 <GeneralAntilles> Complementary
Apr 01 20:51:55 <celesteh> ah, i see they share maps
Apr 01 20:52:45 <celesteh> so does city guide know about POIs ahead of time based or do I need to add them myself?
Apr 01 20:53:01 <celesteh> Like, if I say I'm in London, does it know about the Tate Modern?
Apr 01 20:54:45 <celesteh> ah, i have found the answers to my questions
Apr 01 20:55:44 <celesteh> this is very cool.  nice app!
Apr 01 20:56:07 <KotCzarny> we were glad to help
Apr 01 20:56:52 <celesteh> i just went to 2008 this evening.  there are all kinds of new apps since i last updated anything
Apr 01 20:57:08 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 20:57:10 <KotCzarny> yup
Apr 01 20:57:42 <celesteh> somebody went out and wrote all the toys i wanted!
Apr 01 20:57:53 <KotCzarny> and there will be more
Apr 01 20:58:03 <celesteh> w00t
Apr 01 20:58:05 <KotCzarny> because it's so simple to create new apps
Apr 01 20:58:15 <KotCzarny> only limit is device speed
Apr 01 20:59:57 <celesteh> gpscamera also seems cool.  what i really want is something that will read a gps track, look at the time on the photo and figure out where it must have been taken
Apr 01 21:00:02 <celesteh> and then upload it to flickr
Apr 01 21:00:18 <celesteh> the internal camera on the n800 is totally crap
Apr 01 21:02:58 <celesteh> i also want a pony
Apr 01 21:03:23 <KotCzarny> what will you do with it?
Apr 01 21:03:56 <celesteh> the pony?  um, well, of course, it needs a mapping application and variable speeds.  also, i'd like it to go at least 10 hours between charges
Apr 01 21:04:31 <KotCzarny> O.o
Apr 01 21:04:42 <KotCzarny> are we talking about real pony or some gadget?
Apr 01 21:04:43 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 21:05:02 <wnd> inflatable, perhaps...
Apr 01 21:05:08 <KotCzarny> urghghgh
Apr 01 21:05:11 <celesteh> a pony boy . . .
Apr 01 21:05:19 <KotCzarny> the goggles! they do nothing!
Apr 01 21:06:03 <KotCzarny> celesteh: i can tell you one thing, interracial stuff is inpractical
Apr 01 21:06:11 <KotCzarny> and clumsy sometimes
Apr 01 21:06:51 <celesteh> um, i assume this is a matapor i don't know, kotczarny?
Apr 01 21:07:36 <KotCzarny> how should i interpret 'pony boy' ?
Apr 01 21:07:39 * celesteh does not actually seek a pony boy
Apr 01 21:07:44 <KotCzarny> oh
Apr 01 21:07:45 <KotCzarny> ok
Apr 01 21:08:22 <celesteh> heh, well, if you look in google (or have ever been unfortunate enough to work for a search engine) pony boy actualy refers to humans who like to, um, dress up
Apr 01 21:08:40 <KotCzarny> you mean, furries?
Apr 01 21:08:58 <celesteh> no, this seems to be much more specific
Apr 01 21:09:02 <KotCzarny> hum
Apr 01 21:09:27 <Tama^2> Hi
Apr 01 21:10:09 <GeneralAntilles> Howdy, Tama^2.
Apr 01 21:10:10 <KotCzarny> furries dressed like a ponies?
Apr 01 21:10:23 <Tama^2> Hello GA
Apr 01 21:10:37 <skibur> any good microproccess that can be coded in C++?
Apr 01 21:11:20 <lcuk2> omg ponies!!! :D
Apr 01 21:11:32 <GeneralAntilles> !!!
Apr 01 21:12:34 <skibur> microprocessor
Apr 01 21:12:36 <lcuk2> got a mail today:   From: John   Subject: Remove!!!                  i replied:   Remove!!! what!!! from!!! where???
Apr 01 21:12:59 <KotCzarny> anti-viagra ad?
Apr 01 21:13:21 <lcuk2> no, real person one of my addresses is quite basic - and picks up lots of other gmail addies
Apr 01 21:13:56 <lcuk2> theres loads of person.myemail@gmail.com  and people copy and paste and forget the first part
Apr 01 21:14:46 <KotCzarny> hehe
Apr 01 21:15:03 <lcuk2> i have all kinds of nutters mailing it
Apr 01 21:15:11 <KotCzarny> and misspellers?
Apr 01 21:15:12 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 21:15:21 <lcuk2> nahhh, thats my other one
Apr 01 21:16:08 <KotCzarny> http://www.bigskygypsy.com/Images/fell%20pony%20stallion.jpg
Apr 01 21:16:10 <KotCzarny> pony
Apr 01 21:16:20 <KotCzarny> emo pony
Apr 01 21:16:23 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 21:16:30 <lcuk2> thats been photoshopped. the reflections are all wrong
Apr 01 21:16:40 <KotCzarny> yeah
Apr 01 21:16:45 <KotCzarny> there was something in background
Apr 01 21:16:47 <KotCzarny> on that pic
Apr 01 21:16:58 <lcuk2> a KotCzarny in a pony suit?
Apr 01 21:17:05 <KotCzarny> don't know
Apr 01 21:17:37 <lcuk2> i shouldnt laugh at ponies and stuff though.
Apr 01 21:18:02 <lcuk2> their relative (donkey) is a bit pissed at us after me and my dad almost ran one over :S
Apr 01 21:18:13 <KotCzarny> O.o
Apr 01 21:18:24 <KotCzarny> donkey have a character
Apr 01 21:18:30 <KotCzarny> donkeys
Apr 01 21:18:30 <lcuk2> we had to wipe donkey spit off the windscreen and pay for damage to the car
Apr 01 21:18:46 <lcuk2> but it was still standing
Apr 01 21:18:53 <keesj> On the same site I Web Design!   If you like what you see on these pages let Big Sky Web Design create a cost effective web site for you.
Apr 01 21:19:10 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 01 21:19:22 <KotCzarny> keesj.. i just used google images
Apr 01 21:19:34 <lcuk2> small world
Apr 01 21:19:38 <KotCzarny> i try to avoid looking at the pages after that ;)
Apr 01 21:19:59 <lcuk2> at least now we know what was in the background
Apr 01 21:20:05 <lcuk2> a keesj in a pony suit :P
Apr 01 21:20:10 <KotCzarny> o.O
Apr 01 21:20:40 <lcuk2> it actually looks quite easy on the eye
Apr 01 21:20:53 * lcuk2 likes a nice simple logical layout :)
Apr 01 21:21:04 <KotCzarny> http://www.miniatureponycentre.com/img/pony008.jpg
Apr 01 21:21:06 <KotCzarny> o.o
Apr 01 21:22:43 <lcuk2> http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/04/01/funny-pictures-lolcat-seeds/
Apr 01 21:22:59 <pupnik> did you ever try building picodrive KotCzarny ?
Apr 01 21:23:14 <KotCzarny> pupnik: nope
Apr 01 21:23:21 <pupnik> k
Apr 01 21:23:23 <KotCzarny> i'm fighting with mplayer right now
Apr 01 21:23:45 <KotCzarny> xv/nokia770 driver stopped working for me
Apr 01 21:23:49 <KotCzarny> and i don't know why
Apr 01 21:24:00 <KotCzarny> tried old .25 and current .26
Apr 01 21:24:24 <lcuk2> related to rotation?
Apr 01 21:24:25 <KotCzarny> i suspect xomap's randr path
Apr 01 21:24:28 <KotCzarny> patch
Apr 01 21:24:42 <KotCzarny> on unrotated screen even
Apr 01 21:24:46 <keesj> stop stop stop, stop stop stop, I can not handle any more urls for now. this is a serious channel about maemo development not about show me you mule
Apr 01 21:24:59 <lcuk2> lol keesj
Apr 01 21:25:11 <KotCzarny> if the pony has 'maemo' written on it
Apr 01 21:25:14 <KotCzarny> does it count?
Apr 01 21:25:14 <lcuk2> its not like we are gettin in the way - i know this is serious business
Apr 01 21:25:24 <lcuk2> IRC: SERIOUS BUSINESS
Apr 01 21:25:33 <KotCzarny> SRSBSNS
Apr 01 21:25:33 <GeneralAntilles> YARLY!
Apr 01 21:26:56 <KotCzarny> lcuk: btw. you should upgrade to firefox .13, feels more snappy
Apr 01 21:27:03 <KotCzarny> when opening new tabs for example
Apr 01 21:27:13 <lcuk2> i have done
Apr 01 21:27:16 <lcuk2> as we spoke last night
Apr 01 21:27:19 <lcuk2> what online games would be good to play with n8x0?
Apr 01 21:27:28 <KotCzarny> probably flash games
Apr 01 21:27:32 <lcuk2> what would you like to use your touchscreen to play
Apr 01 21:27:33 <KotCzarny> because we don't have java
Apr 01 21:27:36 <lcuk2> too slow
Apr 01 21:27:36 <oob> multiplayer notepad?
Apr 01 21:27:38 <GeneralAntilles> We need a NIT Doom/Quake community.
Apr 01 21:27:45 <lcuk2> would air hockey be good against a real opponent
Apr 01 21:27:48 <KotCzarny> we have irc
Apr 01 21:27:54 <KotCzarny> oob:
Apr 01 21:27:55 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 21:28:09 <KotCzarny> gps wars?
Apr 01 21:28:21 <KotCzarny> or gps le mans
Apr 01 21:28:23 <lcuk2> lol - would take too long to get a fix
Apr 01 21:28:27 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 21:28:40 <KotCzarny> i fix harder!
Apr 01 21:28:48 <lcuk2> GeneralAntilles,
Apr 01 21:28:53 <lcuk2> what a wicked idea
Apr 01 21:29:14 <keesj> http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/pteq.html
Apr 01 21:29:15 <lcuk2> decide on a track length and in respective part of town go walk/run/cycle/drive
Apr 01 21:29:16 <KotCzarny> hmm, multiplayer tetris
Apr 01 21:29:25 <lcuk2> thats the idea kot
Apr 01 21:29:33 <KotCzarny> there's xtris already
Apr 01 21:29:34 <KotCzarny> though
Apr 01 21:29:35 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 21:29:36 <keesj> I wonder if I can attach that to a nokia tablet
Apr 01 21:29:50 <KotCzarny> probably compiling o-o-t-b
Apr 01 21:30:01 <lcuk2> keesj, would YOU let anyone pee near your nokia?
Apr 01 21:30:01 <fysa> there's a new tetrinet replacement?
Apr 01 21:30:18 <KotCzarny> fysa: in the beginning, there was xtris
Apr 01 21:30:19 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 01 21:30:33 <fysa> yes, xtris is old.  didn't realize it was more than 2 players.
Apr 01 21:30:35 <fysa> :)
Apr 01 21:30:48 <KotCzarny> yes, it was
Apr 01 21:30:48 <keesj> lcuk2: my nokia follows me everywhere.
Apr 01 21:30:52 <KotCzarny> up to 8 or 16 players
Apr 01 21:30:55 <KotCzarny> afair
Apr 01 21:30:59 <lcuk2> ok, we have a camera a mic a touch screen and possibly a gps.  whilst we cant to tilt n shake, what can we use it all for
Apr 01 21:31:03 <celesteh> doom!
Apr 01 21:31:03 <lcuk2> lol keesj
Apr 01 21:31:07 <KotCzarny> we have played it before exams in uni
Apr 01 21:31:07 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 21:31:09 <lcuk2> doom is there isnt it
Apr 01 21:31:19 <lcuk2> thats not designed for this device
Apr 01 21:31:25 <KotCzarny> lcuk: camera based blinking game?
Apr 01 21:31:37 <celesteh> oh my god, this is bad news.  if i have doom, i wil never work again
Apr 01 21:31:49 <KotCzarny> celesteh: you're doomed
Apr 01 21:31:50 <GeneralAntilles> I want to play Quake
Apr 01 21:32:01 <GeneralAntilles> (multiplayer)
Apr 01 21:32:10 <lcuk2> sod that - ut99 for me :)
Apr 01 21:32:11 <fysa> Diablo. ;)
Apr 01 21:32:15 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Apr 01 21:32:22 <GeneralAntilles> UT99 is a little out of its capabilities. :P
Apr 01 21:32:30 <GeneralAntilles> But, yeah, <3 UT99
Apr 01 21:32:40 <GeneralAntilles> Best mods of any FPS ever.
Apr 01 21:32:40 <lcuk2> not if we get the ermmm thingymabob working :)
Apr 01 21:32:46 <lcuk2> we play every dinner
Apr 01 21:33:09 <lcuk2> to be able to login from the device will be good :)
Apr 01 21:33:48 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 01 21:38:27 <lcuk2> KotCzarny, im expanding my save abilities.  im gonna udp them to my windows box as i perform actions..
Apr 01 21:38:37 <KotCzarny> O.o
Apr 01 21:38:51 <KotCzarny> tell me.. what you're really up to?
Apr 01 21:38:52 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 21:38:58 <lcuk2> learning :)
Apr 01 21:39:03 <KotCzarny> yeah.. sure..
Apr 01 21:39:04 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 21:39:11 <lcuk2> putting all the pieces i have had infront of me for about 10 years together :)
Apr 01 21:39:17 <KotCzarny> wow
Apr 01 21:39:18 <lcuk2> but never had a device to do it on
Apr 01 21:40:38 <pupnik> celesteh, i found the most controllable 3d shooter to be solmumaha's Duke3d port
Apr 01 21:40:41 <KotCzarny> start making a lib
Apr 01 21:40:47 <lcuk2> i told ya, ive been on methadone.
Apr 01 21:40:55 <pupnik> offtopic: best unedited movie fight scene ever?  (4 minutes) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K06wDn3XsZE
Apr 01 21:40:58 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 21:41:12 <lcuk2> everything i am doing has a small api - i can change the backend without touching the simplish frontend
Apr 01 21:41:33 <KotCzarny> good :)
Apr 01 21:41:42 <lcuk2> flagged pupnik you got an off-youtube link to same thing so it can be viewed without signing in
Apr 01 21:41:48 <KotCzarny> To view this video or group, please verify you are 18 or older by logging in or signing up.
Apr 01 21:41:50 <KotCzarny> :/
Apr 01 21:42:21 <aquatix> o/` The internet is for porn! o/`
Apr 01 21:42:24 <lcuk2> is it better than hercules?
Apr 01 21:42:35 <lcuk2> astarring arnold strong
Apr 01 21:42:49 <aquatix> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5430343841227974645 <- really funny
Apr 01 21:42:55 <aquatix> and no rickroll :)
Apr 01 21:43:47 <lcuk2> for the best wow soundtrack: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1788226734163789045
Apr 01 21:44:47 <aquatix> lcuk2: hey, isn't that the same?
Apr 01 21:45:08 <lcuk2> same background i think, diff song tho - this is the original
Apr 01 21:45:23 <lcuk2> actually no its not
Apr 01 21:45:28 <lcuk2> they are both diff
Apr 01 21:45:51 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 21:46:14 <KotCzarny> nicely done
Apr 01 21:46:40 <lcuk2> both v old tho
Apr 01 22:00:35 <KotCzarny> a riddle: how many patents can be on a plain cartoon box ?
Apr 01 22:00:50 <KotCzarny> answer: i see 9 listed and 'other patents pending'
Apr 01 22:01:15 * aquatix is too tired to understand the joke
Apr 01 22:01:32 <KotCzarny> damnit, it's a cartoon box.
Apr 01 22:01:43 <KotCzarny> arm
Apr 01 22:01:50 <KotCzarny> i may be using wrong word
Apr 01 22:02:06 <KotCzarny> 'carton, cardboard box'
Apr 01 22:02:18 <aquatix> ah :)
Apr 01 22:02:27 <aquatix> wtf
Apr 01 22:02:39 <aquatix> 9+more pending on the concept of `cardboard box'?
Apr 01 22:02:48 <aquatix> *sigh*
Apr 01 22:02:55 <KotCzarny> i don't know if it's on concept
Apr 01 22:03:39 <aquatix> i get the point
Apr 01 22:03:53 <lcuk2> how much multitouch does the iphone have?  is it 2 point only, or full chording?
Apr 01 22:03:53 <KotCzarny> us patents: 4932930 5147271 5375715 5381948 5400955 5713469 5988389 6394742 6358191
Apr 01 22:03:54 <aquatix> there are things like `special way of ripping this part open' and such
Apr 01 22:04:04 <aquatix> lcuk2: i think 2
Apr 01 22:04:08 <GeneralAntilles> I believe it's only 2 point.
Apr 01 22:04:15 <GeneralAntilles> Not something I ever bothered to test.
Apr 01 22:04:33 <GeneralAntilles> and I think it's an intentional software 'limitation'
Apr 01 22:04:50 <KotCzarny> " Method and machine for forming cases with polygonal section made from a sheet material and cases thus obtained"
Apr 01 22:05:23 <lcuk2> GeneralAntilles, it could be to do with the method they are using to detect touch
Apr 01 22:05:23 <aquatix> KotCzarny: and that's why the patent office needs a thorough clean-up...
Apr 01 22:06:07 <lcuk2> newest technology on touch would put a light sensor in every rgb pixel.  (uses light reflecting back off fingers from lcd backlight to detect touch :) )
Apr 01 22:06:21 <lcuk2> i doubt they are using that tho
Apr 01 22:06:28 <KotCzarny> lcuk: that would be expensive?
Apr 01 22:06:42 <GeneralAntilles> The newer MacBooks have 3-finger gestures
Apr 01 22:06:45 <GeneralAntilles> For forward/back
Apr 01 22:06:50 <GeneralAntilles> Fairly cool.
Apr 01 22:07:03 <lcuk2> to be honest, it wouldnt be that bad - it can (apparantly) be produced with the same tech monitors are made with
Apr 01 22:07:17 <lcuk2> its just an extra pixel going in the opposite direction
Apr 01 22:07:31 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 01 22:07:37 <KotCzarny> much data
Apr 01 22:07:52 <lcuk2> yes, but just like a webcam :)
Apr 01 22:07:59 <KotCzarny> more like scanner
Apr 01 22:08:16 <lcuk2> not really, we use webcams to do photo analysis already
Apr 01 22:08:21 <GeneralAntilles> I want a touchscreen technology that doesn't suck balls.
Apr 01 22:08:25 <Navi> Perspective Pixel
Apr 01 22:08:33 <KotCzarny> but it will detect only close objects
Apr 01 22:08:40 <KotCzarny> otherwise it will pickup much noise
Apr 01 22:09:26 <KotCzarny> laser operated touchscreen?
Apr 01 22:09:27 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 01 22:09:40 <KotCzarny> laserpointer
Apr 01 22:09:54 <lcuk2> wiimote does job well enough
Apr 01 22:10:08 <KotCzarny> with blue beam for rightclick
Apr 01 22:10:11 <lcuk2> if you're holding something, might as well make it active as well
Apr 01 22:10:14 <KotCzarny> red for moving
Apr 01 22:10:27 <KotCzarny> and white for left click
Apr 01 22:10:32 <lcuk2> just send movement over when it moves and a click signal when you click ;)
Apr 01 22:11:17 <KotCzarny> i should eat something
Apr 01 22:11:32 <lcuk2> a horse or pony?
Apr 01 22:11:36 <KotCzarny> fish
Apr 01 22:12:23 <GeneralAntilles> Be nice to get the Wiimote drivers a little less nasty.
Apr 01 22:12:51 <lcuk2> it might actually
Apr 01 22:13:13 <Navi> Nothing wrong with the current Wiimote interpreters, libraries, and modules
Apr 01 22:13:34 <GeneralAntilles> They need to be zero-effort.
Apr 01 22:14:10 <Navi> Libraries like cwiid are up to the developers
Apr 01 22:16:54 <Navi> the effort that one needs to make to use a wiimote-based app is determined by the developer side.
Apr 01 22:17:09 <Navi> s/ side//
Apr 01 22:17:10 <infobot> Navi meant: the effort that one needs to make to use a wiimote-based app is determined by the developer.
Apr 01 22:23:22 <KotCzarny> ah. well. i can't find xserver-xomap deb
Apr 01 22:23:27 <KotCzarny> i will have to compile it
Apr 01 22:29:25 <johnx> its in the repo...
Apr 01 22:29:37 <KotCzarny> how can i get it then?
Apr 01 22:33:02 <johnx> wget
Apr 01 22:33:26 <KotCzarny> link?
Apr 01 22:33:37 <KotCzarny> because i can't find it
Apr 01 22:36:32 <johnx> aaah...ok, I guess I repacked it. at least the source parts of the package are here to make rebuilding trivial: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0/free/x/xorg-server/
Apr 01 22:36:50 <KotCzarny> johnx: that's what i have written
Apr 01 22:36:51 <johnx> or use the one on sse2.net/rotate or dpkg-repack the one on your tablet
Apr 01 22:36:56 <KotCzarny> that i will have to build one myself
Apr 01 22:37:06 <KotCzarny> and yes, i need original unpatched one
Apr 01 22:37:25 <KotCzarny> because i suspects rotation patch brakes xv/nokia770 in mplayer
Apr 01 22:37:35 <KotCzarny> and i want to try unpatched first
Apr 01 22:37:56 <johnx> ah, try the newest rotation stuff
Apr 01 22:37:59 <johnx> that unbreaks it
Apr 01 22:38:01 <KotCzarny> i have tried
Apr 01 22:38:22 <KotCzarny> that's why i want to see what exactly brakes mplayer on my IT
Apr 01 22:38:52 <vlad_> ("breaks" :)
Apr 01 22:39:05 <KotCzarny> thx
Apr 01 22:39:10 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 22:39:22 <KotCzarny> i have written it correctly at first
Apr 01 22:39:38 <KotCzarny> then wrong form stuck in my mind
Apr 01 22:40:22 <KotCzarny> my dictionary says 'brake' is an archaic form of break ;)
Apr 01 22:42:35 <jott> KotCzarny: i would just recommend re-installing my kernel and xomap this should be the easiest fix ;)
Apr 01 22:42:46 <KotCzarny> jott: hrm
Apr 01 22:42:47 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 22:42:56 <KotCzarny> but i believe mplayer was working
Apr 01 22:43:20 <jott> thats why you should reinstall :)
Apr 01 22:43:37 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 22:44:28 <vlad_> #define PIPESIZE qemu: Unsupported syscall: 338
Apr 01 22:44:30 <vlad_> 65536
Apr 01 22:44:32 <vlad_> smooth.
Apr 01 22:44:53 <KotCzarny> yeah
Apr 01 22:44:57 <KotCzarny> i was getting 338 too
Apr 01 22:45:03 <vlad_> yeah, seems harmless
Apr 01 22:45:04 <KotCzarny> with 4.[23]
Apr 01 22:45:10 <KotCzarny> seems.
Apr 01 22:45:13 <vlad_> it was just funny because that #define was generated by a script
Apr 01 22:45:13 <jott> well when rotated only xv makes some trouble but in normal mode there are no problems, be it xv or omapfb output
Apr 01 22:45:20 <vlad_> which seems to have included stderr output in its .h file
Apr 01 22:45:27 <jott> maybe it's your mplayer :p
Apr 01 22:45:43 <KotCzarny> jott: but i have mplayer binary that was working earlier
Apr 01 22:45:55 <KotCzarny> so it's not that
Apr 01 22:46:02 <jott> well all i can say WORKSFORME bug  closed ;)
Apr 01 22:46:06 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 22:46:46 <KotCzarny> i will know for sure after i reinstall xomap
Apr 01 22:47:14 <jott> and flash kernel
Apr 01 22:47:26 <KotCzarny> i had flashed original kernel
Apr 01 22:48:54 <KotCzarny> btw. i've got mplayer's alsa output working by simply editing /etc/asound.conf
Apr 01 23:14:07 <vlad_> KotCzarny: bah, all these binaries run fine on the device, but I keep getting the qemu error (cannot enable executable stack as shared object requires)
Apr 01 23:15:04 <vlad_> maybe this ld-linux.so.2 is too new?
Apr 01 23:15:18 <KotCzarny> so.2 ?
Apr 01 23:15:27 <vlad_> er, .3
Apr 01 23:15:31 <KotCzarny> yeah
Apr 01 23:15:38 <vlad_> mm, there's an execstack tool
Apr 01 23:15:40 <vlad_> that can flip that big
Apr 01 23:15:43 <KotCzarny> i believe whole sys should be rebuilt..
Apr 01 23:16:35 <KotCzarny> or maybe try compiling gcc with glibc2.5 ?
Apr 01 23:16:47 <KotCzarny> native one
Apr 01 23:31:36 <vlad_> KotCzarny: ok, using execstack and clearing the bit (execstack --clear-execstack /lib/*.so.[0-9] /usr/lib/*.so.[0-9]) works
Apr 01 23:31:40 <vlad_> whee
Apr 01 23:31:55 <KotCzarny> whoo
Apr 01 23:32:05 <vlad_> sec, i'll copy over execstack somewhere
Apr 01 23:33:32 <vlad_> http://people.mozilla.com/~vladimir/misc/execstack.armel
Apr 01 23:33:39 <vlad_> needs libelfg0
Apr 01 23:34:35 <KotCzarny> mhm
Apr 01 23:44:54 <pupnik> you making newer gcc work vlad_ ?
Apr 01 23:45:20 <KotCzarny> pupnik: it works
Apr 01 23:45:23 <KotCzarny> nearly
Apr 01 23:45:23 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 23:45:44 <pupnik> i really want to get profiled optimization of dosbox
Apr 01 23:45:48 <pupnik> cause it's so awful right now
Apr 01 23:46:01 <pupnik> and it segfaults when i try with gcc 3.x
Apr 01 23:46:27 <KotCzarny> http://web.archive.org/web/20060111034355/http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_performance_test_process.html
Apr 01 23:46:42 <KotCzarny> anyone know if there's updated version of that page?
Apr 01 23:47:37 <pupnik> wow nice find KotCzarny
Apr 01 23:47:56 <KotCzarny> but missing from maemo.org
Apr 01 23:48:11 <KotCzarny> so i assume there should be version that made this one obsolete
Apr 01 23:52:45 <pupnik> maybe further howto is restricted to internal
Apr 01 23:53:01 <KotCzarny> unlikely
Apr 01 23:53:19 <pupnik> i do not see very much that is outdated
Apr 01 23:53:35 <KotCzarny> 2005
Apr 01 23:53:36 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 01 23:53:58 <pupnik> the core info and methodology remains the same
Apr 01 23:54:04 <KotCzarny> yup
Apr 01 23:54:17 <KotCzarny> but there may be some new tools
Apr 01 23:54:28 <KotCzarny> or existing ones enhanced
Apr 01 23:56:45 <KotCzarny> from fanoush mail on some list: I tend to avoid IRC because it is big waste of time.
Apr 01 23:56:46 <KotCzarny> hehe
Apr 01 23:57:02 <KotCzarny> like all games
Apr 02 00:00:08 <pupnik> Irc means a pile of friends hanging out in the top-right corner of my screen
Apr 02 00:00:50 <KotCzarny> i have a aterm/screen window with 3 subwindows
Apr 02 00:00:56 <KotCzarny> *an
Apr 02 00:01:12 <KotCzarny> 100x50
Apr 02 00:01:13 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 02 00:05:33 <KotCzarny> "Building packages with new toolchain would probably need to have libstdc++
Apr 02 00:05:33 <KotCzarny> linked statically for C++ applications to work on 770/N800, but otherwise
Apr 02 00:05:34 <KotCzarny> everything should be fine."
Apr 02 00:06:17 <pupnik> i tryded it with a LD-preloaded libstdc++ but it only partially worked, i probably needed to supply other things
Apr 02 00:07:19 <KotCzarny> how about rebuilding all software from sscratch?
Apr 02 00:07:50 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 02 00:07:57 <KotCzarny> there's debian-maemo project
Apr 02 00:08:03 <KotCzarny> johnx, alive?
Apr 02 00:09:53 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 02 00:09:59 <KotCzarny> or uclibc based one
Apr 02 00:10:00 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 02 00:10:05 <GeneralAntilles> All the whiners on engadget who want cellular in the tablets are stupid. <_<
Apr 02 00:11:38 <pupnik> agree
Apr 02 00:11:58 <pupnik> i'd really like to see the maemo-ish stuff we do make it onto other hardware
Apr 02 00:12:16 <pupnik> is "mamona" the viable route to do this?
Apr 02 00:12:36 * KotCzarny doesn't know what mamona is
Apr 02 00:12:47 <KotCzarny> other than biblical name similiarity
Apr 02 00:12:50 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 02 00:14:11 <pupnik> mamona is the 'completely open maemo-derived sdk' i guess
Apr 02 00:14:17 <KotCzarny> hum
Apr 02 00:14:47 <pupnik> i'm just asking n00bishly what path could be available
Apr 02 00:15:17 <lcuk2> depends what you compile for
Apr 02 00:16:35 <pupnik> http://dev.openbossa.org/trac/mamona/
Apr 02 00:17:19 <KotCzarny> "What!?!  People who are porting/re-making m68k games haven't
Apr 02 00:17:20 <KotCzarny> heard of alignment issues?  Where the world is going..."
Apr 02 00:17:22 <KotCzarny> hehe
Apr 02 00:17:45 <GeneralAntilles> Ubuntu Mobile will use Hildon.
Apr 02 00:18:02 <GeneralAntilles> s/will use/uses/
Apr 02 00:18:03 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Ubuntu Mobile uses Hildon.
Apr 02 00:18:14 <koyote> honestly, the best i ever saw was pdaxrom for the zaurus clamshells
Apr 02 00:19:49 <koyote> people tend to forget that just 14 years ago, you'd commonly run a full unix with x environment on a 68030 and a 640x480 display. with 512mb of disk.
Apr 02 00:19:57 <koyote> at something like 40mhz.
Apr 02 00:20:04 <koyote> with 32Mb ram.
Apr 02 00:21:21 <KotCzarny> http://www.scratchbox.org/wiki/ForeignToolchains
Apr 02 00:21:21 <KotCzarny> hah
Apr 02 00:21:58 <GeneralAntilles> Your point, koyote? :P
Apr 02 00:23:37 <koyote> the pdaxrom was x based, with a basic unixlike heritage of compiling and selcting your windo managers and special interface tools
Apr 02 00:23:57 <koyote> most of the time when i comment on such subjects, i'm told the nokia hasn'[t got enough resources.
Apr 02 00:24:30 <koyote> which is EXACTLY the same thing i've been hearing with handhelds running real OSen since 1992 when i got my first
Apr 02 00:24:43 <koyote> not firft handhels, but first with a real os.
Apr 02 00:24:56 <lcuk2> koyote, i treat my nokia like I would treat an amiga.  i respect the actions its taking, but I know damned well its capable of even more ;)
Apr 02 00:25:32 <koyote> lcuk2: yah
Apr 02 00:25:56 <lcuk2> we even have a dedicated chipset with custom processors available
Apr 02 00:26:24 * lcuk2 remembers the first time he fired up the blitter
Apr 02 00:26:30 <koyote> so my points, GeneralAntilles, are essentially that the whole hildon and maemo thing seems, honestly, to be castrating the computer. And that there's plenty of power in the device. And that a real linux with dev environment onboard would make the most sense.
Apr 02 00:27:01 <GeneralAntilles> My N800 can do a helluva lot more than my device from 1996. :P
Apr 02 00:27:39 <koyote> exactly
Apr 02 00:28:11 <GeneralAntilles> So, your point is that things are able to do as much as their resources allow? <_<
Apr 02 00:28:27 <koyote> no
Apr 02 00:28:33 <koyote> that they should be permitted to
Apr 02 00:28:48 <lcuk2> the hildon window manager isn't bollocks - the basic principle of hacing staticly sized windows and constant desktop elements is needed.  x on its own is mainly geared towards the mousing paradigm where you can put windows anywhere
Apr 02 00:29:05 <koyote> i'm finding the software side of the n series to be a SERIOUS sticking point for usability
Apr 02 00:29:20 <lcuk2> i agree with you on that point..
Apr 02 00:29:37 <koyote> and i'm not saying hildon is bollocks, either. BUt it's a choice i could make.....
Apr 02 00:29:51 <lcuk2> but managing a windows like environment doesnt suit this device, you would spend longer trying to put a window somewhere - just look at the desktop applets. managing sizing and moving is a nightmare
Apr 02 00:30:18 <koyote> were a regular stock bsd or linux fully supported, i coudl use the touchscreen or a bt keyboard and mouse.
Apr 02 00:30:24 <lcuk2> we need a proper touch interface however and hildon and its software stack are lacking
Apr 02 00:30:32 <koyote> lcuk2: oddly, i never had that problem on the zaurus with the pdaxrom
Apr 02 00:30:54 <Ikkakujyu> Yay Zaurus.
Apr 02 00:31:11 <lcuk2> i have vnc installed on here and whenever i login to my desktop, moving and managing the windows feels wrong
Apr 02 00:31:30 <KotCzarny> the less clicks the better
Apr 02 00:31:32 <koyote> i am typing currently on my *big* computer.
Apr 02 00:31:52 <lcuk2> and its not wrong because its sluggish - i use vnc and vmware all the time, its just not right trying to scrape windows
Apr 02 00:31:59 <KotCzarny> otherwise it starts to get irritating
Apr 02 00:32:00 <koyote> an asus eee pc with the SAME resolution as the n800. yet i have no problem with a regular x environment
Apr 02 00:32:11 <koyote> and i don't seem to have to spend ANY time manually placing windows
Apr 02 00:32:15 <lcuk2> thats because you are using a mouse
Apr 02 00:32:20 <koyote> of course, i am not using twm
Apr 02 00:32:22 <lcuk2> its not resolution, its touch vs mouse
Apr 02 00:32:37 <koyote> lcuk2: touchscreen is same same as a mouse in most ways.
Apr 02 00:32:42 <KotCzarny> not exactly
Apr 02 00:32:43 <koyote> look at the wesnoth port
Apr 02 00:32:46 <GeneralAntilles> Bullcrap
Apr 02 00:33:01 <lcuk2> koyote, i know its not because i use both methods daily
Apr 02 00:33:03 <koyote> KotCzarny: most ways. move pointer, select. hold, drage.
Apr 02 00:33:04 <KotCzarny> it's hard to differentiate click and point
Apr 02 00:33:08 <lcuk2> and i curse at the moused windoing
Apr 02 00:33:25 <KotCzarny> and no rmb (righyt mouse button)
Apr 02 00:33:29 <koyote> i use both methods daily, and i've used touch screens in linux on fujitsu laptops, as well
Apr 02 00:33:43 <lcuk2> i honestly have no problem letting hildon decide that all windows go here and these go there.  it is like the console in my car
Apr 02 00:33:48 <lcuk2> everything is static and easy to find
Apr 02 00:33:55 <koyote> KotCzarny: that's easy. bind the back key to it or something
Apr 02 00:34:30 <KotCzarny> still
Apr 02 00:34:32 <KotCzarny> you tap
Apr 02 00:34:35 <KotCzarny> you generate lmb
Apr 02 00:34:36 <lcuk2> the experience may change with a large format tablet, but on these devices it feels better
Apr 02 00:34:40 <koyote> who here actually has used x with a touch screen environment, like on the pdaxrom builds?
Apr 02 00:34:40 <KotCzarny> not the right
Apr 02 00:34:56 <KotCzarny> you click 'back button' you wil lgenerate rmb at current mouse pos
Apr 02 00:34:58 <koyote> KotCzarny: um. it's really pretty simple. on normal unices
Apr 02 00:35:09 <KotCzarny> koyote: xmodmap will work
Apr 02 00:35:19 <koyote> you bind things, keychords, alternative button usage.
Apr 02 00:35:33 <KotCzarny> xmodmap will work
Apr 02 00:35:42 <KotCzarny> i have an idea how to do it even
Apr 02 00:35:43 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 02 00:36:07 <KotCzarny> ie. 1 button to turn tap-to-point on/off
Apr 02 00:36:10 <koyote> lcuk2: completely preference. i would prefer an x environment with something like windowmaker, you like hildon.
Apr 02 00:36:18 <KotCzarny> and 1 button to assign tap to lmb or rmb
Apr 02 00:36:25 <lcuk2> :)
Apr 02 00:36:34 <koyote> but why can i not just install my prefernce via apt and compile my own kernel and such?
Apr 02 00:36:41 <koyote> this is where i'm having major issues.
Apr 02 00:36:43 <KotCzarny> you can
Apr 02 00:36:48 <GeneralAntilles> Install Debian.
Apr 02 00:36:50 <KotCzarny> a least the kernel part
Apr 02 00:37:10 <KotCzarny> though not the generic i guess (as long you want closed things)
Apr 02 00:39:51 <koyote> here's where i have been not finding the information i want, then.
Apr 02 00:40:07 <KotCzarny> hmm?
Apr 02 00:41:31 <koyote> standardish debian on the n800?
Apr 02 00:42:08 <KotCzarny> johnx runs maemo-debian
Apr 02 00:42:18 <GeneralAntilles> ARM EABI Debian
Apr 02 00:42:20 <KotCzarny> i guess most things would work
Apr 02 00:42:42 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian
Apr 02 00:42:46 <KotCzarny> only parts that are hardware specific could fail
Apr 02 00:42:58 <koyote> define maemo-debian
Apr 02 00:43:15 <KotCzarny> erm, i meant debian on n8x0
Apr 02 00:43:31 <KotCzarny> don't know why it stuck in my mind that maemo is IT
Apr 02 00:43:43 <GeneralAntilles> It's Debian.
Apr 02 00:45:48 <ZooVision> Hi we are looking to hire a programer to write a widget written for the internet tablets
Apr 02 00:45:57 <KotCzarny> o.o
Apr 02 00:46:03 <ZooVision> can anyone help me?
Apr 02 00:46:45 <GeneralAntilles> maemo.org may be your best bet.
Apr 02 00:47:29 <ZooVision> Okay I've looked around there but didn't see a good place to post a message
Apr 02 00:47:40 <lcuk2> try posting on internettabletforum
Apr 02 00:47:43 <GeneralAntilles> He did
Apr 02 00:47:47 <lcuk2> ahh
Apr 02 00:47:51 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe try the dev mailing list
Apr 02 00:47:58 <GeneralAntilles> Not sure, really.
Apr 02 00:48:03 <ZooVision> I've posted a message on the tablet forum
Apr 02 00:48:06 <lcuk2> zoo, does your company not have local developers?
Apr 02 00:48:11 <GeneralAntilles> There was another guy looking for a dev a few months ago
Apr 02 00:48:16 <GeneralAntilles> Not sure if he ever had any success.
Apr 02 00:48:58 <KotCzarny> gronmayer is down?
Apr 02 00:49:05 <ZooVision> we do but they are tied up right now and plus don't have the needed experience
Apr 02 00:50:32 <lcuk2> unfortunatly i am just starting myself.  depending upon the definition of the widget you want, if they have any linux development experience at all they should be able to do it fairly quickly
Apr 02 00:51:16 <GeneralAntilles> Desktop applets are pretty straightforward.
Apr 02 00:51:33 <lcuk2> and wasnt someone saying the python bindings are getting simpler
Apr 02 00:51:40 <KotCzarny> ah. only slow
Apr 02 00:51:53 <ZooVision> okay I'll look in that direction linux developers
Apr 02 00:52:18 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 02 00:52:20 <lcuk2> get them a device and let them play for a couple of weeks
Apr 02 00:52:46 <lcuk2> (in their own time)  you will find out who can do it - let them keep device for doing it at home ;)
Apr 02 00:53:01 <ZooVision> good idea
Apr 02 00:53:11 <ZooVision> we ordered a couple of them today
Apr 02 00:53:30 <ZooVision> should be pretty simple overall
Apr 02 00:53:33 <KotCzarny> something lags
Apr 02 00:53:43 <ZooVision> read in an xml feed
Apr 02 00:53:59 <ZooVision> link to the media player
Apr 02 00:54:13 <KotCzarny> sounds like regexp fun
Apr 02 00:54:21 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 02 00:54:52 <ZooVision> already have the interface ironed out
Apr 02 00:55:16 <KotCzarny> what's the problem then?
Apr 02 00:55:32 <KotCzarny> it doesn't look like it has to be very maemo specific
Apr 02 00:56:05 <ZooVision> well the graphics are ironed out
Apr 02 01:33:15 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 02 01:33:20 <KotCzarny> canola2 for linux is coming
Apr 02 01:33:22 <KotCzarny> o.o
Apr 02 01:35:00 <KotCzarny> jott: you got linked: http://www.marceloeduardo.com/blog/design/user-interface-design/team-work-canola2-portrait-test
Apr 02 01:35:01 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 02 02:09:00 <pupnik_> http://sse2.net/rotate/  maemo os2008 xrandr rotate screen vertical display rotated desktop jott Rodrigo fanoush
Apr 02 02:14:58 <KotCzarny> ?
Apr 02 02:15:53 <pupnik_>  linkspam
Apr 02 02:16:00 <KotCzarny> heh
Apr 02 02:17:03 <pupnik>  	
Apr 02 02:17:04 <pupnik> Google partners with NSA, CIA on intelligence database
Apr 02 02:17:11 <pupnik> http://rawstory.com/news/2008/CIA_creates_miniGoogle_0331.html
Apr 02 02:17:17 <KotCzarny> april 1st
Apr 02 02:17:19 <KotCzarny> still
Apr 02 02:17:26 <pupnik> ? hmm
Apr 02 02:17:35 <pupnik> Published: Monday March 31, 2008
Apr 02 02:17:43 <KotCzarny> hour?
Apr 02 02:18:02 <KotCzarny> and any other references?
Apr 02 02:18:21 <pupnik> read it or ignore it
Apr 02 02:18:25 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 02 02:18:42 <KotCzarny> i believe story like this one would be /. to death
Apr 02 02:19:10 <pupnik> it's not a very sinister story
Apr 02 02:19:28 <KotCzarny> all bad things come in small steps
Apr 02 02:20:09 <pupnik> the buzzword for this around 2001-2003 was 'knowledge management' for organizations
Apr 02 02:21:45 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 02 02:22:01 <KotCzarny> i take back whatever i said bad about canola
Apr 02 02:22:04 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 02 02:22:13 <KotCzarny> it has browser by folder option, whoo
Apr 02 02:22:25 <pupnik> oh then i might try it also
Apr 02 02:23:24 <KotCzarny> seemless playback would be nice though
Apr 02 02:24:56 <KotCzarny> also some shortcuts like, 'now playing, options, top'
Apr 02 02:25:05 <KotCzarny> scratch that
Apr 02 02:25:13 <KotCzarny> now playing is in the corner
Apr 02 02:25:53 <KotCzarny> and holding on 'back' takes to the top in 1 sec
Apr 02 02:26:07 <KotCzarny> really, really nice
Apr 02 02:28:14 <KotCzarny> sorting tracks would be nice though
Apr 02 02:28:46 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 02 02:28:57 <KotCzarny> ok. i'm in the canola fan base now.
Apr 02 02:28:59 <KotCzarny> definitely
Apr 02 02:29:00 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 02 02:35:42 <KotCzarny> high quality zoom would be nice too
Apr 02 02:35:52 <KotCzarny> (for books scanned as jpg)
Apr 02 02:36:51 <KotCzarny> also there should be an option to remember/revert zoom/orientation
Apr 02 02:38:58 <KotCzarny> pupnik: http://www.marceloeduardo.com/blog/design/user-interface-design/ha-the-guys-just-keep-surprising-me
Apr 02 02:39:11 <KotCzarny> translucent osk on n800
Apr 02 02:39:20 <KotCzarny> that's the thing i wanted :)
Apr 02 02:39:36 <KotCzarny> observe: 1/ you can see part of the background
Apr 02 02:39:48 <KotCzarny> 2/ entered text is also shown in top left corner
Apr 02 02:41:07 <WormFood> does moon lander not work with the n800? I can't figure out any way to control it
Apr 02 02:41:54 <KotCzarny> wf: no info in the manual/docs/site?
Apr 02 02:42:33 <Tama^2> KotCzarny: from the article you linked: "Now, the plan is to have this as optional keyboard. And of course IT WILL NOT HAVE THIS iPhone look!"
Apr 02 02:42:54 <Tama^2> of course it will not... it will look much worse! by design..
Apr 02 02:42:54 <KotCzarny> tama: i don't like the look too
Apr 02 02:43:15 <Tama^2> what is that you do not like?
Apr 02 02:43:17 <KotCzarny> but i wanted an osk that wont fsck other windows
Apr 02 02:43:18 <Tama^2> :)
Apr 02 02:43:28 <KotCzarny> default osk just makes me angry
Apr 02 02:43:29 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 02 02:43:47 <Tama^2> me too >.<
Apr 02 02:45:08 <tsukasa> mmm bawls
Apr 02 02:45:15 <tsukasa> i love slurping my cold juicy bawls
Apr 02 02:45:46 <Tama^2> and of course one cannot write a replacement
Apr 02 02:47:18 <KotCzarny> hmm?
Apr 02 02:47:41 <Tama^2> I do not know if I have a talent for finding things to do that are verboten but it seems all the things I'd like to work on were classified as not open by Nokia
Apr 02 02:47:55 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 02 02:47:59 <KotCzarny> no workarounds?
Apr 02 02:49:08 <Tama^2> input methods have to fit in the IM plugin system which basically exclude osk
Apr 02 02:49:17 <KotCzarny> erm, not really
Apr 02 02:49:21 <Tama^2> unless you want to implement one for your application only of course
Apr 02 02:49:26 <KotCzarny> xserver allows for remote input
Apr 02 02:49:44 <KotCzarny> xvkbd, xkbd
Apr 02 02:49:49 <KotCzarny> both uses it
Apr 02 02:49:53 <KotCzarny> and it works
Apr 02 02:49:53 <Tama^2> yes, but if you ask me the ITOS is already very clumsy when it comes to user interaction
Apr 02 02:50:26 <Tama^2> if I come up with yet another method that is not triggered by finger pressure or the select button
Apr 02 02:50:34 <KotCzarny> my idea is: disable builtin osk, assign hardware key to bring ours up
Apr 02 02:50:36 <KotCzarny> done
Apr 02 02:50:39 <Tama^2> it's useless, really
Apr 02 02:50:44 <KotCzarny> no, not another method
Apr 02 02:50:53 <KotCzarny> no hildon specific stuff
Apr 02 02:50:58 <KotCzarny> standalone app
Apr 02 02:51:13 <KotCzarny> that would work on every xserver
Apr 02 02:51:21 <pupnik_> xvkbd
Apr 02 02:51:22 <KotCzarny> it simply works
Apr 02 02:51:34 <pupnik_>  xkbd
Apr 02 02:51:38 <KotCzarny> pupnik: ?
Apr 02 02:51:43 <Tama^2> yes, pupnik?
Apr 02 02:51:54 <pupnik_> without an opengl-based windowing system, there is no solution for translucent vkbd
Apr 02 02:52:12 <pupnik_> it would eat cpu drawing over an animated sdl game
Apr 02 02:52:24 <KotCzarny> pupnik: i could bear with xshape enabled one too
Apr 02 02:52:41 <KotCzarny> it's like 1bit transparency
Apr 02 02:52:44 <KotCzarny> quite fast
Apr 02 02:52:57 <pupnik_> interesting
Apr 02 02:53:18 <KotCzarny> doh
Apr 02 02:53:22 <KotCzarny> what am i saying
Apr 02 02:53:29 <KotCzarny> i could even bear with a window
Apr 02 02:53:36 <KotCzarny> that won't cover whole screen
Apr 02 02:53:42 <KotCzarny> like xkbd does right now
Apr 02 02:54:19 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 02 02:54:23 <KotCzarny> i have an idea
Apr 02 02:54:25 * KotCzarny grins
Apr 02 02:57:29 <Tama^2> KotCzarny: going back to our conversation: if you assign the HW key to bringing up the custom osk app, it means other applications do not have access to the same key
Apr 02 02:59:09 <KotCzarny> tama: yes, there's a price
Apr 02 02:59:28 <KotCzarny> another trick woyld be catching clicks in the corner of the screen
Apr 02 02:59:31 <KotCzarny> would
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 02 02:59:57 2008