**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 06 02:59:56 2008
Apr 06 03:00:07 <hrw|gone> johnx: you do not have othher interfaces with nat - right?
Apr 06 03:00:31 <johnx> actually I do
Apr 06 03:00:32 <hrw|gone> those down lines...
Apr 06 03:00:42 <johnx> yeah, those down lines would screw it up
Apr 06 03:00:56 <johnx> I should probably yank them now that I've looked at it again
Apr 06 03:01:10 <johnx> when I first added that I didn't have any other interfaces relying on NAT :)
Apr 06 03:01:17 <hrw|gone> ;)
Apr 06 03:01:38 <hrw|gone> usbnet suxx anyway
Apr 06 03:01:58 <johnx> I never use it except for debugging wifi anyways
Apr 06 03:01:59 <KotCzarny> nonet is worse
Apr 06 03:01:59 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 06 03:02:25 <hrw|gone> KotCzarny: i have 6 usbnet devices here..
Apr 06 03:02:30 <KotCzarny> lol
Apr 06 03:02:41 <johnx> O_o
Apr 06 03:03:00 <yabbas> usbnet sucks, except when you need to recover :)
Apr 06 03:03:02 <hrw|gone> not connected at same time ;)
Apr 06 03:04:13 <hrw|gone> it is hard to get which device is on usbX when more then one is connected
Apr 06 03:04:33 <hrw|gone> especially with same ones..
Apr 06 03:05:02 <Navi> pupnik_, I've discovered perpetual motion
Apr 06 03:06:00 <pupnik_> ?
Apr 06 03:06:45 <Navi> on numpty physics
Apr 06 03:06:58 <pupnik_> hwo?
Apr 06 03:07:00 <pupnik_> how
Apr 06 03:07:29 <mikedep333> can you guys send me a link to a pic of this program?
Apr 06 03:08:08 <mikedep333> nm
Apr 06 03:08:12 <mikedep333> http://numptyphysics.garage.maemo.org/
Apr 06 03:08:57 <pupnik_> need mor levels
Apr 06 03:09:11 <pupnik_> i realized i could attach a line to the ball
Apr 06 03:09:36 <mikedep333> "Numpty Physics is released under the GPL with the hope that others with more spare time than myself will be able to .... and above all create more levels (using the built in editor)."
Apr 06 03:10:51 <elb> oh bad ass, is that like that sketchpad physics thing that made the rounds a while back?
Apr 06 03:10:54 <elb> I demand it
Apr 06 03:11:33 <pupnik_> it should be front page maemo.org really
Apr 06 03:12:28 <elb> I'm getting it now
Apr 06 03:12:31 <elb> with ACTIONS
Apr 06 03:12:40 <Navi> swinging pendulum
Apr 06 03:12:42 <elb> the first thing I said when I saw the crayon physics game was "I need that"
Apr 06 03:13:02 <Navi> numpty isn't complete 'nuff to be front page material :P
Apr 06 03:13:21 <dererk> Hi! :D
Apr 06 03:13:29 <m-c> elb: there is an open source version of that game now
Apr 06 03:14:06 <shapr> Is there a btscanner package for OS2008?
Apr 06 03:16:21 <pupnik_> sweeeedish weeeemon!
Apr 06 03:18:51 <Navi> I played crayon physics on my friend's tablet laptop
Apr 06 03:18:53 <Navi> twas fun
Apr 06 03:19:31 <shapr> pupnik_: eh?
Apr 06 03:19:56 <GAN800> 'tis shapr!
Apr 06 03:20:00 <pupnik_> wemon!
Apr 06 03:20:01 <shapr> Tis I!
Apr 06 03:20:14 * GAN800 <- GeneralAntilles
Apr 06 03:20:16 <shapr> Aha!
Apr 06 03:20:19 <shapr> Greetings GeneralAntilles
Apr 06 03:20:28 <shapr> I just got a N800 on Tuesday.
Apr 06 03:20:29 <GAN800> You ever upgrade that 770? :P
Apr 06 03:20:34 <GAN800> Haha
Apr 06 03:20:39 <GAN800> 'grats
Apr 06 03:20:45 <pupnik_> i had a japanese friend who loved swedish women, and he'd pronounce it 'weemon!'
Apr 06 03:20:45 * dererk searching for OS2008 over n770
Apr 06 03:21:02 <shapr> And I purchased a Buglabs Bug yesterday, should be shipping to me soon.
Apr 06 03:21:12 <pupnik_> whats zthat
Apr 06 03:21:19 <shapr> dererk: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/internet_tablet_hacker_edition_pushed_at_chinook_level.html
Apr 06 03:21:40 <shapr> pupnik_: It's something that's sort of like the Nokia Internet Tablet, from an entirely different company.
Apr 06 03:21:54 <dererk> shapr, :D
Apr 06 03:22:00 <dererk> shapr, thanks pal
Apr 06 03:22:01 <GAN800> The modular thing, right?
Apr 06 03:22:04 <shapr> GAN800: Haven't seen you on any of the servers lately, where do you hang out?
Apr 06 03:22:08 <shapr> GAN800: Yeah, that one.
Apr 06 03:22:28 <GAN800> Had a giant and exciting fallout on D*S
Apr 06 03:22:31 <shapr> oh
Apr 06 03:22:47 <GAN800> on pure tremulous these days.
Apr 06 03:22:50 <shapr> I just play on whatever server has the most players, that's not often D*S lately.
Apr 06 03:22:53 <shapr> ah
Apr 06 03:23:05 <GAN800> Haven't been on in a few weeks, though.
Apr 06 03:23:14 <shapr> Anyway, since I just got an N800, I want to get started developing for it.
Apr 06 03:23:26 <GAN800> Awesome!
Apr 06 03:23:27 <shapr> Can someone point me to the directions for setting up a dev environment?
Apr 06 03:23:50 <KotCzarny> maemo.org
Apr 06 03:23:57 <KotCzarny> http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_4_chinook_sdk.html
Apr 06 03:24:10 <shapr> Excellent, thanks!
Apr 06 03:25:10 <shapr> Is Apophis the same as the 1.99 deb in debian/unstable?
Apr 06 03:25:17 <KotCzarny> probably
Apr 06 03:25:25 <shapr> Cool, I'll try it.
Apr 06 03:25:27 <KotCzarny> though new version is required
Apr 06 03:25:34 <KotCzarny> read instal.txt for details
Apr 06 03:25:52 <KotCzarny> apophis r4
Apr 06 03:25:55 <KotCzarny> or higher
Apr 06 03:26:15 <shapr> Yeah, I just don't know if that means the scratchbox2 deb will work...
Apr 06 03:26:26 <KotCzarny> i think it should
Apr 06 03:26:51 <KotCzarny> i believe i have set up a target using debian's gcc package for sb
Apr 06 03:26:52 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 03:27:07 <shapr> cool
Apr 06 03:28:13 <hrw|gone> re
Apr 06 03:28:14 <yabbas> hmm
Apr 06 03:28:29 <KotCzarny> back to ff7, bbl
Apr 06 03:28:32 <hrw|gone> my daughter finally sleeps
Apr 06 03:29:14 <yabbas> so no_lg_reboots doesn't stop it from resetting after a while :(
Apr 06 03:29:17 <dererk> Is scratchbox2 the WM of Maemo ?
Apr 06 03:30:22 <dererk> oh, nm :-)
Apr 06 03:31:49 <GAN800> matchbox, dererk ;)
Apr 06 03:32:28 <dererk> :-)
Apr 06 03:35:25 <dererk> argjjjjj
Apr 06 03:35:43 <GAN800> Hit it with a stick!
Apr 06 03:35:43 <dererk> I always have problems with tablets-dev nokia servers
Apr 06 03:36:52 <GAN800> dererk, do you have easy access to a windows machine or vm?
Apr 06 03:37:13 <dererk> I would have to get an cd from somewhere
Apr 06 03:37:19 <dererk> GAN800, why?
Apr 06 03:37:32 <GAN800> The caching network is slightly better utilized by the Windows flasher utility.
Apr 06 03:37:42 <dererk> :-/
Apr 06 03:38:07 <GAN800> If it's not easy, it's not worth your time, though. :P
Apr 06 03:38:32 <dererk> I'm right now using tor to get in some why contact with servers
Apr 06 03:38:42 <dererk> I always have problems with Nokia servers
Apr 06 03:38:58 <GAN800> Where are you located?
Apr 06 03:38:59 <dererk> I'm starting to think it has problems with my ISP
Apr 06 03:39:04 <dererk> GAN800, .AR
Apr 06 03:40:46 <GAN800> Hrm, dunno
Apr 06 03:41:06 <GAN800> Certain countries are specifically blocked by the akamai cache.
Apr 06 03:41:18 <dererk> Yes, that seems to be the problem
Apr 06 03:41:27 <dererk> Those bastards
Apr 06 03:41:53 <dererk> you know how painful is to download 100mb at 15kb/s?
Apr 06 03:42:01 <GAN800> stage.maemo.org is a good way around the repository issue, but I'm not aware of any good tablets-dev mirrora
Apr 06 03:42:27 <GAN800> Blame bad governments. :P
Apr 06 03:42:43 <dererk> unfortunatelly, the flashing BIN, is only at tablets-dev nokia server
Apr 06 03:42:45 <GAN800> OS2008 proper is on bt
Apr 06 03:43:10 <GAN800> Maybe you could talk somebody into mirroring the HE version for you.
Apr 06 03:43:19 <johnx> provision equal parts blame to: akamai, nokia, and bureaucracy
Apr 06 03:43:28 <dererk> johnx, Agreed
Apr 06 03:43:41 <GAN800> Nokia doesn't seem to care, it's mostly to satisfy licensing agreements.
Apr 06 03:44:07 <dererk> yes, I understood that the other day I was around here too
Apr 06 03:44:33 <dererk> cocksuckers
Apr 06 03:44:37 <dererk> ups, sorry
Apr 06 03:44:37 <GAN800> Quim thanked the guys who put up the OS2008 mirrors in November.
Apr 06 03:45:32 <johnx> gah...I need to get better hosting. O_o 6 days into April and I'm 1/5 of the way through my transfer quota
Apr 06 03:46:16 <dererk> johnx, take out pr0n stuff and bandwith will automatically be enouth
Apr 06 03:46:17 <dererk> :-P
Apr 06 03:46:34 <johnx> thanks for the suggestion. :P
Apr 06 03:46:45 <dererk> sorry, I need to take some ungry out of me
Apr 06 03:46:48 <johnx> I think the big ticket item is the debian rootfs
Apr 06 03:46:56 <dererk> i would explote otherwise
Apr 06 03:47:17 * hrw|gone -> sleep again
Apr 06 03:47:37 <dererk> johnx, debian rootfs && hosting problems?
Apr 06 03:47:41 <dererk> I don't get it, sorry
Apr 06 03:48:05 <johnx> errr...I have a debian rootfs tarball for the N8x0 on my host, and it seems to be somewhat popular
Apr 06 03:48:13 <johnx> too popular for my $5/month hosting plan :D
Apr 06 03:48:15 <dererk> ahhhhh
Apr 06 03:48:20 <dererk> ROTFL!!!!!
Apr 06 03:48:25 <KotCzarny> johnx: sourceforge.net ?
Apr 06 03:48:25 <dererk> hahahahahahah
Apr 06 03:48:26 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 03:48:57 <johnx> maaaybe I'll try and find someplace to host me for as high as $7/month, but that's the limit
Apr 06 03:49:26 <dererk> juaz
Apr 06 03:51:10 <dererk> johnx, have you taken into account belnet?
Apr 06 03:51:24 <dererk> they provide mirroring and so
Apr 06 03:51:24 <johnx> belnet?
Apr 06 03:51:28 <dererk> yes
Apr 06 03:51:28 * johnx googles
Apr 06 03:51:37 <dererk> a kinda SF park
Apr 06 03:51:46 <dererk> but at belgium :P
Apr 06 03:53:30 <dererk> johnx, http://ftp.belnet.be/mirror/
Apr 06 03:53:44 <dererk> there is an email there too
Apr 06 03:54:44 <johnx> I'll probably start by pulling the direct link to the debian rootfs now that it's mirrored by some other people and see if that's enough
Apr 06 04:23:12 <Italodance> hello
Apr 06 05:03:23 <pupnik_> mypaint is so close to awesome
Apr 06 05:03:24 <pupnik_> "beginner's battle-axe"  http://pupnik.de/bba01.jpg
Apr 06 05:03:47 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 06 05:03:51 <KotCzarny> looks like a girl
Apr 06 05:03:54 <KotCzarny> to me
Apr 06 05:03:55 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 06 05:04:02 <pupnik_> what else is worth drawing?
Apr 06 05:04:06 <johnx> OMG, girls on the intarwebs?!
Apr 06 05:04:25 <KotCzarny> i'm just looking for an axe
Apr 06 05:04:27 <KotCzarny> in that pic
Apr 06 05:04:36 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 06 05:04:36 <johnx> behind her back
Apr 06 05:04:46 <KotCzarny> ah
Apr 06 05:04:47 <johnx> she's about to swing it down through your brain-pan :)
Apr 06 05:04:48 <KotCzarny> i see
Apr 06 05:05:06 <KotCzarny> looked like a background at first
Apr 06 05:05:07 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 05:05:40 <johnx> well, you learn what to look for after you have a couple girls come at you with a battle-axe... O_o
Apr 06 05:05:55 <KotCzarny> i'm still alive
Apr 06 05:05:57 <KotCzarny> though
Apr 06 05:06:04 <KotCzarny> so it's not that bad i guess
Apr 06 05:06:21 <pupnik_> i've been attacked by a girl with a broomstick, fwiw
Apr 06 05:06:38 <doc|home> witch!
Apr 06 05:06:56 <KotCzarny> vibrating broomstick?
Apr 06 05:07:55 <pupnik_> no trying to club my noggin with it
Apr 06 05:07:57 <KotCzarny> pupnik: nice pic, btw
Apr 06 05:08:16 <pupnik_> yeah i was following a tutorial.  they help
Apr 06 05:08:53 <pupnik_> http://idrawgirls.com/  would you believe it, from here
Apr 06 05:08:59 <KotCzarny> lol
Apr 06 05:13:08 <pupnik_> they're pretty scary good
Apr 06 06:09:25 <thux_n800> is file command included in some maemo pacgage?
Apr 06 06:10:32 <johnx> it's in the package named "file" :)
Apr 06 06:10:43 <johnx> look on gronmayer.com/it for a repo that has it
Apr 06 06:10:55 <johnx> debfarm.free.fr and repository.maemo.org seem to have it though
Apr 06 06:11:56 <thux_n800> ok thanks
Apr 06 06:20:39 <liri> is there a scratchbox iso/vmware image to get started fast on development?
Apr 06 06:21:21 <johnx> yes...let me dig up a link to the current release
Apr 06 06:22:07 <johnx> http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/
Apr 06 06:40:30 <liri> ahh great
Apr 06 07:49:38 <pupnik_> dude mypaint needs an auto-save feature :/
Apr 06 07:49:55 <pupnik_> losing work is highly de-motivational
Apr 06 07:49:55 <johnx> did it crash on you?
Apr 06 07:50:12 <pupnik_> yeah more than a few times
Apr 06 07:50:28 <johnx> ah, weak sauce
Apr 06 07:53:36 <pupnik_> bah motivation is zero now
Apr 06 08:12:21 <doc|home> in fairness, it's mypaint
Apr 06 08:12:36 <doc|home> mypaint!=photoshop by many many miles :)
Apr 06 08:27:00 <konttori> Hey, is the numpty physics author in here?
Apr 06 09:44:55 <pupnik_> anders_: you here?
Apr 06 09:45:42 <pupnik_> take a look at an idea for a quikUI for mypaint .. http://pupnik.de/mypaint_quikUI_01anim.gif
Apr 06 10:12:35 <pupnik_> anybody here good with Gimp?
Apr 06 10:15:35 <WormFood> I'm good with cropping pictures with Gimp
Apr 06 10:16:12 <pupnik_> heh
Apr 06 11:09:10 <WormFood> I find it utterly amazing that bzip2/bunzip2 is not included by default with the N800
Apr 06 11:11:09 <MangoFusion> i find it utterly amazing that the kitchen sink isn't included by default with the N800 ;)
Apr 06 11:12:12 <pupnik> or 'less'
Apr 06 11:12:36 <WormFood> OMG! 'less' isn't there either?!?
Apr 06 11:12:52 <pupnik> but guess what.  normal users don't need it, and people who do can damn well install it themselves
Apr 06 11:13:22 <WormFood> are there any "normal" n800 users out there?
Apr 06 11:13:57 <pupnik> probably well over 90% of customers have no linux skills
Apr 06 11:14:46 <WormFood> probably well over 99.999% of the population has no linux skills :P
Apr 06 11:15:19 <WormFood> the only reason I got the N800 is because it runs Linux (also the only reason I got a Zaurus too)
Apr 06 11:15:49 <pupnik> right.  so if you find you're missing something, then install it.
Apr 06 11:16:50 <WormFood> I would install bzip2, if I could find the package for it
Apr 06 11:19:01 <WormFood> I should put an ad on craigslist and try to sell my n800, since they are not sold here, and very rare here.
Apr 06 11:19:15 <WormFood> maybe I can actually get what I paid for it :D
Apr 06 11:24:24 <WormFood> great! it appears the elkins.org repository has the bzip2 package I need, but I can't connect to it :(
Apr 06 11:24:56 * jott tends to just build missing packages instead of adding a random repository
Apr 06 11:26:17 <WormFood> it is a moot point jott, if I can't download the package, due to not being able to connect to the server
Apr 06 11:27:25 <jott> well it also helps not to clutter your sources.list ;)
Apr 06 11:27:43 <WormFood> that isn't the problem
Apr 06 11:27:52 <jott> and when using sid sources you usually get a newer version ;)
Apr 06 11:27:53 <WormFood> I can't even ping the server
Apr 06 11:30:00 <jott> actually bzip2 should also be in http://repository.maemo.org chinook/free
Apr 06 11:30:55 <WormFood> I just setup my vpn and downloaded the package directly.
Apr 06 11:31:17 <jaska> hitting the great wall again?
Apr 06 11:31:44 <jott> WormFood: http://foo.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/b/bzip2/
Apr 06 11:32:18 <Italodance> http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/c/canola2/canola2_2.0.0~beta8-maemo1_all.deb
Apr 06 11:32:21 <Italodance> oh :D
Apr 06 11:32:24 <WormFood> now that one I can reach...thanks
Apr 06 11:35:02 <jott> WormFood: just replace repository. with holeindawall. in your sources.list then ;)
Apr 06 11:58:54 <lcuk> pupnik, i like your ui idea - when i saw the still version i thought it was gonna roll out all the way but yours is a bit more classy :)
Apr 06 12:00:10 <lcuk> one question though, does the bottom black item hold the actual menu with options?  (it doesnt expand in your preview)
Apr 06 13:27:28 <WormFood> this is crazy...can I not set the dictionary location with stardict?
Apr 06 13:41:48 <lopz> hi
Apr 06 14:18:53 <eichi> hello, i have some problems with the display light of my n800, it doenst shut down sometimes
Apr 06 14:18:56 <eichi> i dont know wh
Apr 06 14:18:56 <eichi> y
Apr 06 14:44:31 * konttori has been testing out kde on the device. Seems pretty nice. Albeit far too slow for my taste. 
Apr 06 14:47:29 <mikedep333> kontorri: yeah, I heard it was overall good from the forums
Apr 06 14:47:39 <mikedep333> my main concern was the ram size
Apr 06 14:48:51 <konttori> yeah, well, ram is sufficient for a few apps at the same time, but yeah, it's pushig it.
Apr 06 14:49:10 <konttori> One really nice thing is that you can also run the kde apps in maemo once you have installed kde.
Apr 06 14:49:18 <konttori> And *THAT* is really nice.
Apr 06 14:49:24 <mikedep333> oh, awesome
Apr 06 14:49:41 <mikedep333> one reason why I was thinking of installing kde
Apr 06 14:49:44 <mikedep333> is for krdc
Apr 06 14:49:55 <liri> whats that?
Apr 06 14:49:59 <mikedep333> which preserves the top bar to let you switch out of it
Apr 06 14:50:04 <mikedep333> it is a VNC and RDP client
Apr 06 14:50:10 <mikedep333> RDP being microsoft remote desktop
Apr 06 14:50:11 <liri> ahh nice
Apr 06 15:36:04 <^Jsn^> does anyone here use rdesktop?
Apr 06 16:05:21 <konttori> anyone used pluthon?
Apr 06 16:06:19 <Ziegler> Anyone able to utilize a web cam on the n8*0 for comunication?
Apr 06 16:07:10 <lcuk> i once reflected sunlight off it whilst stodd on a hilltop to one of my friends on the other side of the valley.  but as for actually using it as a webcam i havent seen anything of note :P
Apr 06 16:07:33 <megabyte405> use the gizmo 4 beta
Apr 06 16:10:36 <Ziegler> I have been trying gizmo4 but others using gizmo cant't answer my calls
Apr 06 16:11:09 <Ziegler> Lcuk... Funny hehe
Apr 06 16:22:31 <jeff1f> you can try my gizmo @ jeffgrado
Apr 06 16:23:02 <Ziegler> One sec...
Apr 06 16:23:22 <jeff1f> I'm not sure if this is the beta though
Apr 06 16:25:38 <jeff1f> oh blast, try again!
Apr 06 16:25:43 <Ziegler> Ok
Apr 06 16:25:51 <jeff1f> I didn't click fast enough
Apr 06 16:26:48 <Ziegler> Shucks...  Disconnected again
Apr 06 16:27:00 <jeff1f> I heard hello, then got a media error
Apr 06 16:27:07 <Ziegler> Did the web cam show up at all?
Apr 06 16:27:11 <jeff1f> no
Apr 06 16:27:22 <Ziegler> Bet that was the media error
Apr 06 16:27:30 <Ziegler> Right as i tuned it on
Apr 06 16:27:52 <jeff1f> I have 4.0 (v97)
Apr 06 16:28:03 <Ziegler> Others i have attempted to call see the same error
Apr 06 16:28:08 <jeff1f> oh
Apr 06 16:28:13 <Ziegler> Let me reinstall gizmo
Apr 06 16:28:14 <jeff1f> I can try to call you
Apr 06 16:28:19 <Ziegler> Sure
Apr 06 16:28:30 <jeff1f> what is your user name?
Apr 06 16:28:35 <Ziegler> Adamziegler
Apr 06 16:29:47 <jeff1f> yeah, try to reinstall maybe
Apr 06 16:29:59 <Ziegler> Ok one minute
Apr 06 16:35:18 <yllus> Has anyone played with iodine, the DNS tunnel program?
Apr 06 16:36:04 <Ziegler> Jeff might be a bandwidth issue
Apr 06 16:36:35 <jeff1f> I'm on a slow dsl
Apr 06 16:36:49 <Ziegler> Heh... Same here
Apr 06 16:37:16 <jeff1f> there was a green screen, so the camera channel was probably trying to do something
Apr 06 16:39:34 <Ziegler> It would flash on for a bit... And then cut out... Sound went out while it was on also
Apr 06 16:43:31 <Ziegler> Anyone know of any webcam apps for the Nokia tablets...  Thst can uloas pics to a server?
Apr 06 16:43:40 <Ziegler> Upload*
Apr 06 16:43:52 <johnx> yeah, I think it's called camera
Apr 06 16:44:07 <Ziegler> (Man i have big thmbs)
Apr 06 16:44:36 * Ziegler looks for camera
Apr 06 16:45:28 <Ziegler> Ah.. I actaully have it installed
Apr 06 16:45:41 <johnx> maybe that's not the app I'm thinking of
Apr 06 16:45:44 * johnx goes searching
Apr 06 16:47:10 <Ziegler> Yeah just takes pics
Apr 06 16:48:26 <johnx> gps-camera ( https://garage.maemo.org/projects/gps-camera/ ) claims to do what you want but I've never tried it...
Apr 06 16:48:38 <shapr> scratchbox is x32 only?
Apr 06 16:49:00 * shapr is unhappy
Apr 06 16:49:09 <KotCzarny> vmware?
Apr 06 16:49:16 <johnx> or 32bit chroot
Apr 06 16:49:21 <KotCzarny> cheapo p3 box ?
Apr 06 16:49:27 <Ziegler> Cool let me check it out
Apr 06 16:49:29 * shapr grumbles...
Apr 06 16:49:30 <johnx> it's stuff like this that keeps me on a 32bit distro
Apr 06 16:49:42 <shapr> I've been using pure x64 for about a year.
Apr 06 16:49:45 <KotCzarny> shapr: you can always install gcc on IT
Apr 06 16:49:46 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 06 16:49:57 <shapr> Um, on the tablet itself?
Apr 06 16:50:01 <KotCzarny> yup
Apr 06 16:50:11 <johnx> if you're patient
Apr 06 16:50:11 <shapr> I dunno, build times might be a bit long.
Apr 06 16:50:25 <johnx> heh...understatement of the century :)
Apr 06 16:50:26 <KotCzarny> though cloning fs to mmc card is helpfull in disk space terms
Apr 06 16:51:16 <shapr> johnx: Are there online directions for a 32bit chroot?
Apr 06 16:51:44 <johnx> I was kind of just thinking out loud...
Apr 06 16:53:06 * shapr grumbles
Apr 06 16:53:23 <KotCzarny> hum, hum
Apr 06 16:53:31 <KotCzarny> aren't the sources available?
Apr 06 16:53:33 <shapr> Isn't vmware commercial software?
Apr 06 16:53:33 <lcuk> ok, can some one tell me which part of compiling on the NIT would be slow - it cant be the actual compilation - cpu is fast.  is it the disk access times?
Apr 06 16:53:38 <johnx> but I don't see any really unavoidable problems with just making a 32-bit chroot on your distro and installing scratchbox like normal
Apr 06 16:53:49 <KotCzarny> can you compile scratchbox and gcc for x64 too?
Apr 06 16:53:51 <shapr> I've never made a chroot.
Apr 06 16:54:01 <johnx> shapr, which distro are you on?
Apr 06 16:54:09 <shapr> debian/unstable x64
Apr 06 16:54:21 <KotCzarny> lcuk: memory limit
Apr 06 16:54:28 <lcuk> shapr, yes vmware is commercial, but they have free vmware player
Apr 06 16:54:28 <johnx> shapr, great. it's super easy then. just debootstrap
Apr 06 16:54:32 <shapr> oh
Apr 06 16:54:38 <lcuk> but i used to do compilation on less memory every day?
Apr 06 16:54:45 <lcuk> large projects
Apr 06 16:54:58 <KotCzarny> lcuk, then the only concern is flash wearout
Apr 06 16:55:03 <KotCzarny> and limited /tmp
Apr 06 16:55:07 <lcuk> my amiga had 1mb
Apr 06 16:55:08 <johnx> probably smaller software though, right?
Apr 06 16:55:11 <KotCzarny> it's 512kb by default
Apr 06 16:55:26 <KotCzarny> don't know why they have limited it in initfs
Apr 06 16:55:35 <johnx> because it eats RAM
Apr 06 16:55:38 <lcuk> johnx, not really
Apr 06 16:55:41 <KotCzarny> johnx: not true
Apr 06 16:55:41 <Ziegler> Could use colinux for a vm
Apr 06 16:55:47 <lcuk> the same amount of code goes into software today as it used to
Apr 06 16:55:51 <KotCzarny> tmpfs allocates and frees memory dynamically
Apr 06 16:55:56 <shapr> lcuk: There's more code.
Apr 06 16:56:04 <shapr> lcuk: There are also more optimizations.
Apr 06 16:56:17 <johnx> KotCzarny, isn't /tmp on a tmpfs?
Apr 06 16:56:22 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 06 16:56:28 <KotCzarny> but limited to 512kb
Apr 06 16:56:29 <lcuk> only if selected - if you are assuming everything is optimised by a program then thats your own problem ;)
Apr 06 16:56:48 <johnx> right because if it was bigger things could eat that space and run you out of memory
Apr 06 16:57:04 <lcuk> and the more code isnt true
Apr 06 16:57:14 <KotCzarny> johnx, and right now if you run an app that needs more /tmp space will simply fail
Apr 06 16:57:20 <johnx> exactly :)
Apr 06 16:57:32 <KotCzarny> not quite what i would like to happen
Apr 06 16:57:34 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 16:57:59 <johnx> but I'm sure there reasoning was that it's easier to tell people "you can't use more than x space in tmp because it's not there" rather than "please be nice and don't use too much /tmp" :)
Apr 06 16:58:23 <KotCzarny> but /tmp has it's function in *nix
Apr 06 16:58:31 <KotCzarny> and shouldn't be limited
Apr 06 16:58:32 <johnx> and lcuk, I find it very difficult to believe that software hasn't gotten bigger (in terms of LoC) since the Amiga days
Apr 06 16:58:34 <KotCzarny> (too much)
Apr 06 16:58:50 <KotCzarny> if they left it at default it wouldn't take more than now
Apr 06 16:58:53 <KotCzarny> (of ram)
Apr 06 16:58:58 <johnx> KotCzarny, I'm just telling you what I think their reasoning was, not whether I think it was a good idea :)
Apr 06 16:59:04 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 17:00:36 <lcuk> johnx, most solutions on amiga require the same amount of code on todays devices as they did back then.  sure a developer could choose to insert more functions and make it bigger, but they could back then.
Apr 06 17:01:19 <KotCzarny> one word: embedded
Apr 06 17:01:20 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 06 17:01:25 <lcuk> loadpic_lbm(filename);      is about the same as todays     loadpic_jpeg(filename)
Apr 06 17:01:38 <lcuk> libraries more like
Apr 06 17:01:46 * KotCzarny remembers watching jpegs on a500
Apr 06 17:01:53 <KotCzarny> 'oh, it loads!'
Apr 06 17:01:53 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 06 17:02:15 <johnx> well, we could do it that way, but obviously we don't as the support libs and lower level stuff (even the linux kernel) have grown even over the last 10 years that I've been watching them
Apr 06 17:02:38 <lcuk> its a flower, *more lines*no wait its a bee *more lines* no wait its your mom *more lines*   OMG what is she doing with that *more lines *  ahhhhh!
Apr 06 17:02:51 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 17:02:51 <shapr> johnx: Um, how do I use debootstrap to build a chroot?
Apr 06 17:02:55 * shapr feels clueless
Apr 06 17:03:00 <KotCzarny> lcuk: something like that ;)
Apr 06 17:03:14 <lcuk> it was the same with gifs
Apr 06 17:03:36 <KotCzarny> btw. anyone know how to send 'enter' to the hildon app without gtk or bringing up osk ?
Apr 06 17:03:45 <KotCzarny> *knows
Apr 06 17:04:00 <shapr> I'm thinking "cd /; mkdir /scratchboxroot; debootstrap sid /scratchboxroot; http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ # etc" right?
Apr 06 17:04:45 <johnx> shapr, mostly right, but you want to specify the arch as i386
Apr 06 17:04:51 <shapr> ah
Apr 06 17:04:53 <lcuk> johnx, the middle aged spread you see is not necessarily adding more core features, its making those features work on multiple architectures
Apr 06 17:05:05 <lcuk> though obviously some is
Apr 06 17:05:24 <johnx> but also adding more features and providing for letting programmers do things at a more abstract higher level
Apr 06 17:05:41 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 06 17:05:46 * KotCzarny thinks 'python'
Apr 06 17:05:47 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 06 17:05:54 <KotCzarny> and 'java' too
Apr 06 17:06:04 <johnx> and a lot of the stuff in libgtk is just new features :)
Apr 06 17:06:13 <KotCzarny> before people are lazy
Apr 06 17:06:14 <lcuk> of course - thats called making a library and has been around for ages
Apr 06 17:06:16 <KotCzarny> most often
Apr 06 17:06:25 <KotCzarny> *because
Apr 06 17:06:36 * lcuk remembers arexx fondly
Apr 06 17:06:36 <shapr> yay, it's building!
Apr 06 17:06:40 <shapr> I think...
Apr 06 17:06:53 <johnx> shapr, you specified --arch i386?
Apr 06 17:07:01 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 06 17:07:04 * lcuk linked together his drawing program with his opus program and made bigger tolls
Apr 06 17:07:10 <lcuk> tools even
Apr 06 17:08:07 <johnx> actually a good example is that over the last 10 years the size of a *compiled linux kernel for x86* has more than doubled even though more things are separated into modules
Apr 06 17:08:45 <KotCzarny> johnx: features
Apr 06 17:08:54 <KotCzarny> you still can run 1.3 kernel
Apr 06 17:08:58 <lcuk> but you compile in the options you want.  if you want to use it on more restricted hardware you do not compile in those modules
Apr 06 17:08:59 <KotCzarny> (probably)
Apr 06 17:09:21 <KotCzarny> you want netfilter? you pay the price
Apr 06 17:09:23 <KotCzarny> etc.
Apr 06 17:09:52 <johnx> they've added more code to the scheduler as well, but it *works better* now
Apr 06 17:09:53 <lcuk> anyway, yes more code has been written i am not denying that.   but i was asking why it was a problem now to compile on the device versus compiling on my amiga.
Apr 06 17:10:16 <johnx> because the software for the n8x0 is bigger than the software for your amiga
Apr 06 17:11:07 <lcuk> no its not
Apr 06 17:11:31 <lcuk> i had 5 years of cruft in my code on amiga and it compiled fine - ive got 2 months on this and i was asking if it would be ok
Apr 06 17:12:12 <johnx> ah, ok, in your specific case?
Apr 06 17:12:15 <johnx> fair enough
Apr 06 17:12:38 <johnx> still, how much are you including from other bigger libs?
Apr 06 17:13:37 <johnx> I was somehow under the impression that you were trying to convince me that Linux+Hildon+Maemo for the tablet was somehow the same number of LoC as AmigaOS :)
Apr 06 17:14:11 <Navi> pupnik, I'd prefer just the hildon color picker over your concept
Apr 06 17:14:18 <KotCzarny> it's like saying amigaos 1.3 has the same loc as amigaos 4
Apr 06 17:14:19 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 17:15:51 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Apr 06 17:17:03 <shapr> johnx: Yeah, I did.
Apr 06 17:17:14 <johnx> good :)
Apr 06 17:17:51 <KotCzarny> hmm, anyone has a knowledge of hildon?
Apr 06 17:17:58 <dieman> too bad i need to have a linux box around to have any fun with the sdk
Apr 06 17:17:58 <shapr> Paris Hildon?
Apr 06 17:18:03 <dieman> wont be able to work on it away from home
Apr 06 17:18:05 <dieman> oh well
Apr 06 17:18:11 <KotCzarny> that would be another channel
Apr 06 17:18:11 <shapr> The famous open source dilettante?
Apr 06 17:18:17 <KotCzarny> and spelling error too
Apr 06 17:18:20 * lcuk wonders why anyone would want to recompile everything every time anyway - no matter how big the total project would be it would be very rare that you would recompile everything
Apr 06 17:18:22 * shapr snickers
Apr 06 17:18:24 * dieman watches scratchbox install
Apr 06 17:18:44 <shapr> Ok, now what do I do with this chroot?
Apr 06 17:18:47 <johnx> dieman, maemo sdk on vmware?
Apr 06 17:19:00 <dieman> dunno, im not a fan of vmware much, but i guess, sigh
Apr 06 17:19:10 <dieman> i'll work with it on my home box a bit first
Apr 06 17:19:12 <dieman> then perhaps do it
Apr 06 17:19:21 <Navi> or you could install Ubuntu on Windows or something.
Apr 06 17:19:24 <dieman> i've only got 14gb free on my laptop disk :)
Apr 06 17:19:26 <dieman> <-- osx user
Apr 06 17:19:30 <Navi> Oh, pfft
Apr 06 17:19:32 <dieman> ahaha
Apr 06 17:19:43 <dieman> here to make your live miserable by being the 5% or so
Apr 06 17:19:46 <dieman> or perhaps less
Apr 06 17:19:58 <Ziegler> Use colinux or virtualbox
Apr 06 17:20:01 <dieman> i really need to clean up this disk
Apr 06 17:20:07 <Navi> I think they've doubled that in the last few years
Apr 06 17:20:20 <dieman> i'd probally just get a copy of vmware fusion
Apr 06 17:20:22 <dieman> and run ubuntu on it
Apr 06 17:20:41 <johnx> lcuk, heh...yeah, it's not exactly my idea of a good time, but there are reasons to do it, such as someone not having the version you want compiled for the arch you want
Apr 06 17:21:05 <Navi> Well, watching text scroll for hours on end is fun
Apr 06 17:21:20 <Navi> that's the best reason to recompile everything over again
Apr 06 17:21:23 <lcuk> yer i know - its gentoo thats full source isnt it?
Apr 06 17:21:26 <dieman> jeez scratchbox is huge
Apr 06 17:21:27 <johnx> as long as it's on someone elses' box :D
Apr 06 17:21:54 <johnx> lcuk, yup. but also OpenEmbedded
Apr 06 17:22:12 <johnx> and there are very good reasons for that being source only
Apr 06 17:22:26 <Navi> Gentoo used to have a good reason
Apr 06 17:22:39 <Navi> not really anymore
Apr 06 17:22:50 <johnx> it still does kinda, but it's a tradeoff
Apr 06 17:22:53 <lcuk> i dont doubt it.   anyway t time
Apr 06 17:22:54 <shapr> johnx: Ok, um, now what?
Apr 06 17:23:06 <KotCzarny> shapr: profit!
Apr 06 17:23:08 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 17:23:11 <johnx> try and chroot into your new chroot
Apr 06 17:23:19 <johnx> chroot /path/to/it
Apr 06 17:23:23 <johnx> (as root)
Apr 06 17:23:32 * dieman starts cleaning out his homedirectory
Apr 06 17:23:40 <Navi> Mine is a mess
Apr 06 17:24:02 <johnx> my home is clean, it's all the sub directories under it that are a mess :D
Apr 06 17:26:40 <shapr> Ok, I'm in the chroot....
Apr 06 17:27:00 <johnx> ok, now follow the normal scratchbox install directions in there
Apr 06 17:27:06 <shapr> ok
Apr 06 17:27:23 <johnx> and if you run into problems, at least you didn't hose your real OS :)
Apr 06 17:27:35 <shapr> hmm
Apr 06 17:27:42 <shapr> It still thinks it's not a 32bit arch.
Apr 06 17:27:58 <johnx> file /bin/ls
Apr 06 17:28:21 <shapr> 32-bit
Apr 06 17:28:25 <shapr> hmm
Apr 06 17:28:33 <KotCzarny> maybe some env variable?
Apr 06 17:28:35 <johnx> maybe it checks in a dumb way?
Apr 06 17:28:42 <shapr> uname -a says x86_64
Apr 06 17:28:47 <KotCzarny> fake it
Apr 06 17:28:48 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 17:28:51 <shapr> How?
Apr 06 17:29:09 <johnx> in your chroot, replace uname with something that lies
Apr 06 17:29:12 <KotCzarny> echo "echo x86" >/bin/uname
Apr 06 17:29:14 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 06 17:29:15 <johnx> or hack the install script to not care
Apr 06 17:33:27 <shapr> Ok, I'll try it.
Apr 06 17:34:32 <KotCzarny> otoh, if it's a x86_64 then probably you can run some virtual machine on it?
Apr 06 17:34:45 <KotCzarny> in 32bit mode?
Apr 06 17:35:02 <johnx> yeah, vmware should be pretty fast in that situation
Apr 06 17:35:11 <KotCzarny> no, no vmware
Apr 06 17:35:20 <KotCzarny> there are kvm maybe?
Apr 06 17:35:23 <johnx> but chroot is the minimum effort for the maximum speed
Apr 06 17:35:34 <KotCzarny> (without 'there are')
Apr 06 17:35:46 <KotCzarny> probably
Apr 06 17:35:52 <johnx> KotCzarny, "I can has kvmzzzz?"
Apr 06 17:36:33 * KotCzarny throws johnx's a bit-treat
Apr 06 17:58:35 <shapr> argh, too much stuff to fake
Apr 06 17:58:43 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 06 17:59:01 <KotCzarny> get a cheapo p3 box
Apr 06 17:59:12 <KotCzarny> on CL you can get them for 10$
Apr 06 17:59:14 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 06 17:59:52 * shapr grumbles
Apr 06 18:00:07 <KotCzarny> or some shell account
Apr 06 18:00:21 <shapr> Hm, my colo is probably 32 bit.
Apr 06 18:00:33 <shapr> Still, my desktop is a dual core with 4gb of ram, I'd like to develop here.
Apr 06 18:00:34 <KotCzarny> though qemu needs vdso disabled
Apr 06 18:00:52 <KotCzarny> shapr: install 32bit kernel?
Apr 06 18:01:46 <KotCzarny> shapr, Xen ?
Apr 06 18:01:54 <shapr> Yeah, Xen sounds like a good option.
Apr 06 18:02:02 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 18:02:05 <shapr> Thanks
Apr 06 18:02:08 <KotCzarny> np
Apr 06 18:12:45 <solmumaha> anyone want xmms2?
Apr 06 18:12:58 <KotCzarny> so many deps
Apr 06 18:12:59 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 06 18:13:18 <solmumaha> not that many
Apr 06 18:13:28 <KotCzarny> last time i checked i have said 'nah'
Apr 06 18:13:34 <KotCzarny> because of the count
Apr 06 18:13:39 <solmumaha> mainly vorbis
Apr 06 18:14:08 <solmumaha> well i packaged it myself so 3 + vorbis/mad
Apr 06 18:14:18 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 18:14:41 <KotCzarny> vorbis/mad is included in extras
Apr 06 18:14:45 <KotCzarny> so i don't count them
Apr 06 18:14:45 <solmumaha> quickly hildonized gxmms2 too
Apr 06 18:14:56 <solmumaha> k, 3 then
Apr 06 18:15:04 <KotCzarny> solmumaha: is there a holdonizing howto ?
Apr 06 18:15:14 <KotCzarny> hildonizing
Apr 06 18:15:46 <solmumaha> well there are good docs at maemo.org
Apr 06 18:16:08 <freelikegnu> the old beep-media-player is good, and works nice with a2dp
Apr 06 18:16:14 <Ziegler> Look under the tutorials
Apr 06 18:16:21 <KotCzarny> docs, heh
Apr 06 18:16:26 <freelikegnu> (not bmp2)
Apr 06 18:16:33 <johnx> I'd be interested in the debs for xmms2, but I won't try them until tomorrow
Apr 06 18:16:48 <solmumaha> xmms2 is nice because you can control different machines with the same client
Apr 06 18:16:59 <solmumaha> or control your tablet from your desktop
Apr 06 18:17:17 <solmumaha> and it has nice transports too
Apr 06 18:18:36 <KotCzarny> solmumaha, you know hildon well, can i ask you a quick question?
Apr 06 18:18:36 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 18:18:50 <solmumaha> haha, i don't
Apr 06 18:18:56 <KotCzarny> anyway
Apr 06 18:18:56 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 18:18:58 <solmumaha> but shoot
Apr 06 18:19:22 <KotCzarny> how do i send 'enter key' message to hildon app? (using bare x event, not gtk)
Apr 06 18:19:48 <KotCzarny> the only piece of code i have found so far is only for receiving
Apr 06 18:19:51 <KotCzarny>       else if (event.xclient.message_type == but_hildon_com)/* special key/event */
Apr 06 18:19:59 <KotCzarny>         switch (event.xclient.data.b[4])
Apr 06 18:20:03 <KotCzarny>         case 0:                                          /* return / enter */
Apr 06 18:20:03 <KotCzarny>             ... /* send XK_Return (or handle specially) */
Apr 06 18:21:12 <KotCzarny>    i'm asking because if i send xk_return it gets eaten by hildon input method
Apr 06 18:21:55 <solmumaha> hmm
Apr 06 18:22:57 <solmumaha> why don't you use gtk?
Apr 06 18:23:15 <KotCzarny> because this app doesn't use gtk
Apr 06 18:23:56 <solmumaha> virtual keyboard?
Apr 06 18:24:01 <KotCzarny> mhm
Apr 06 18:24:23 <solmumaha> or different app you are working on?
Apr 06 18:24:27 <KotCzarny> xvkbd
Apr 06 18:24:30 <KotCzarny> to be specific
Apr 06 18:24:38 <solmumaha> yes, i tried that
Apr 06 18:24:57 <solmumaha> doesn't work with hildon apps?
Apr 06 18:25:01 <KotCzarny> works
Apr 06 18:25:10 <KotCzarny> but hildon apps use hildon-im
Apr 06 18:25:15 <KotCzarny> (input method plugin)
Apr 06 18:25:27 <KotCzarny> and some keys get eaten by it
Apr 06 18:25:37 <KotCzarny> 'return' for example brings up osk
Apr 06 18:25:59 <KotCzarny> for terminal apps one can use ctrl-m as a temp. measure
Apr 06 18:28:47 <solmumaha> well i haven't messed with hildon-im, so can't really help you
Apr 06 18:29:00 <solmumaha> can you disable it somehow when the app is running?
Apr 06 18:29:14 <keesj> KotCzarny, I think you need to run the im-switch to change the behaviour
Apr 06 18:29:35 <KotCzarny> keesj: will it affect all apps?
Apr 06 18:30:05 <KotCzarny> solmumaha: run xterm, run xkbd/xvkbd, you will see
Apr 06 18:30:18 <keesj> I think is depends
Apr 06 18:30:58 <keesj> I use dto use it to connect my serial bt keyboard
Apr 06 18:31:28 <keesj> (sorry I have a very laggy connection atm) so I can not wait for thehe text to be there
Apr 06 18:31:40 <KotCzarny> keesj:
Apr 06 18:31:41 <KotCzarny> Nokia-N800-51-3:~# which im-switch
Apr 06 18:31:41 <KotCzarny> Nokia-N800-51-3:~#
Apr 06 18:31:44 <solmumaha> KotCzarny: fixed it
Apr 06 18:31:54 <solmumaha> :)
Apr 06 18:31:59 <KotCzarny> solmumaha: how?
Apr 06 18:32:00 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 18:32:13 <solmumaha> insmod joydev.ko
Apr 06 18:32:16 <KotCzarny> lol
Apr 06 18:32:48 <KotCzarny> now that's a hack ;)
Apr 06 18:32:53 <solmumaha> :)
Apr 06 18:32:54 <keesj> maemo-gtk-im-switch
Apr 06 18:33:30 <keesj> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_SetupKeyboard/ use "xim" x input method
Apr 06 18:33:55 <keesj> I also had the same problems when connecting using synergy btw
Apr 06 18:35:23 <KotCzarny> -sh: maemo-gtk-im-switch: not found
Apr 06 18:35:30 <KotCzarny> is it 770 specific?
Apr 06 18:35:34 <KotCzarny> or external app?
Apr 06 18:36:09 <keesj> perhaps it is called gtk-im-swtich.. it is not external
Apr 06 18:36:17 <KotCzarny> nope
Apr 06 18:36:49 <KotCzarny> hildon-im-xkbtool ?
Apr 06 18:36:53 <KotCzarny> hildon-input-method ?
Apr 06 18:36:56 <KotCzarny> hildon-input-method-configurator ?
Apr 06 18:36:58 <jott> KotCzarny: have you tried using KP_Enter instead of Return (or vice versa)?
Apr 06 18:37:04 <KotCzarny> jott: yes
Apr 06 18:37:08 <KotCzarny> same effect
Apr 06 18:37:26 <jott> well get a n810 no troubles here with osk ;)
Apr 06 18:37:32 <KotCzarny> not true
Apr 06 18:37:34 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 18:37:41 <jott> no osk no trouble ;)
Apr 06 18:38:01 <jott> can't you just disable the hildon im?
Apr 06 18:38:05 <KotCzarny> how?
Apr 06 18:38:16 <jott> globally in settings
Apr 06 18:38:22 <KotCzarny> where?
Apr 06 18:38:43 <KotCzarny> last time i checked there wasn't an option for that
Apr 06 18:38:44 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 18:39:33 <jott> hm disable "stylus input methods" and "launch finger keyboard" ? don't know..
Apr 06 18:39:47 <KotCzarny> screenshot pls
Apr 06 18:39:47 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 18:39:55 <KotCzarny> and no
Apr 06 18:39:55 <jott> control panel -> text input
Apr 06 18:40:06 <jott> gconf ..
Apr 06 18:40:07 <KotCzarny> i have tried all things there
Apr 06 18:40:18 <KotCzarny> cmd line?
Apr 06 18:40:29 <jott> at least on n810 it is disabled so there has to be a way ..
Apr 06 18:40:49 <KotCzarny> hmm, using: hildon-input-method-configurator xim
Apr 06 18:40:52 <KotCzarny> worked
Apr 06 18:41:03 <KotCzarny> at least to the point that it doesn't bring osk up
Apr 06 18:41:09 <KotCzarny> but enter is still eaten
Apr 06 18:41:55 <jott> set /apps/osso/inputmethod/have-internal-keyboard to true? ;)
Apr 06 18:42:37 <solmumaha> KotCzarny: stop wasting time, i can give you joydev.ko :p
Apr 06 18:43:22 <KotCzarny> solmumaha: asking user to insmod a kernel module isn't quite a right way :)
Apr 06 18:43:40 <KotCzarny> jott: what's the exact cmd line?
Apr 06 18:43:41 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 18:43:48 <jott> gconftool-2 --help-all ;)
Apr 06 18:43:51 <solmumaha> just sudo your script and bundle it
Apr 06 18:44:15 <jott> so gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/inputmethod/have-internal-keyboard -t bool true
Apr 06 18:44:16 <jott> or so
Apr 06 18:44:58 <KotCzarny> jott, still eaten
Apr 06 18:45:20 <jott> hm only by hildon apps?
Apr 06 18:45:31 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 06 18:46:01 <KotCzarny> aterm doesn't have such problem
Apr 06 18:46:53 <jott> hm input_method_plugin = 001_hildon_western_hwr ?
Apr 06 18:47:12 <KotCzarny> hildon-input-method-configurator 001_hildon_western_hwr ?
Apr 06 18:47:29 <jott> gconftool-2 -g /apps/osso/inputmethod/input_method_plugin
Apr 06 18:47:36 <jott> and set with -t string
Apr 06 18:47:40 <jott> or use an other tool
Apr 06 18:47:41 <KotCzarny> jott, can you run xev and paste me result of pressing hw enter?
Apr 06 18:48:00 <KotCzarny> Nokia-N800-51-3:~# gconftool-2 -g /apps/osso/inputmethod/input_method_plugin
Apr 06 18:48:00 <KotCzarny> 000_hildon_western_vkb
Apr 06 18:48:12 <jott> maybe set it to hwr?
Apr 06 18:48:19 <jott> or 001_*
Apr 06 18:48:33 <KotCzarny> still eaten
Apr 06 18:48:54 <jott> http://pastebin.com/m80b8e27 enter and return  (kp_enter is the return key and return is the d-pad center)
Apr 06 18:49:25 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 06 18:49:30 <KotCzarny> but xev isn't hildonized
Apr 06 18:49:41 <jott> no
Apr 06 18:49:55 <KotCzarny> so it may not run into h-i-m
Apr 06 18:52:44 <KotCzarny> hwr way will probably work
Apr 06 18:52:55 <KotCzarny> but i guess there's another setting for it
Apr 06 18:53:05 <jott> hal? :)
Apr 06 18:53:21 <KotCzarny> how can i list /apps/osso/inputmethod/ ?
Apr 06 18:53:29 <jott> -R
Apr 06 18:53:47 <KotCzarny> gconftool-2 -R  /apps/osso/inputmethod ?
Apr 06 18:53:50 <jott> yes
Apr 06 18:54:21 <jott> apt-get source hildon-input-method?
Apr 06 18:54:58 <KotCzarny> ?
Apr 06 18:55:07 <KotCzarny> let's see
Apr 06 18:55:07 <jott> rtfs :)
Apr 06 18:56:22 <KotCzarny>     if (self->priv->keyboard_available)
Apr 06 18:56:22 <KotCzarny>     {
Apr 06 18:56:22 <KotCzarny>       hildon_im_ui_send_communication_message(self,
Apr 06 18:56:22 <KotCzarny>           HILDON_IM_CONTEXT_HANDLE_ENTER);
Apr 06 18:56:22 <KotCzarny>     }
Apr 06 18:56:30 <KotCzarny> so it should work after selecting hwr
Apr 06 18:56:38 <KotCzarny> but it doesn't, hum
Apr 06 18:56:50 <jott> maybe its not properly integrated
Apr 06 18:57:03 <jott> (i.e. kill -HUP or something as it doesnt listen on gconf changes)
Apr 06 18:57:31 <KotCzarny> but on 810 sliding doesn't require a reboot
Apr 06 18:57:32 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 18:58:43 <jott> but it will not update the gconf.. this might be set somewhere sooner?!
Apr 06 18:58:47 <jott> just blind guesses
Apr 06 18:58:54 <KotCzarny> hum
Apr 06 18:59:22 <KotCzarny> can you check somehow what happens on kb slide on 810?
Apr 06 18:59:47 <jott> keyboard was closed here all the time .. :)
Apr 06 18:59:53 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 19:02:54 <KotCzarny> Configuring Hildon Input Method
Apr 06 19:02:54 <KotCzarny> root is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.
Apr 06 19:02:56 <KotCzarny> lol
Apr 06 19:03:38 <jott> beware! nokia will haunt you!
Apr 06 19:03:54 <KotCzarny> my root will be haunted, oh noes!
Apr 06 19:05:23 <lcuk> the old nokia phone in your drawer will float around your house with a sheet on its head going woooooooooooo!
Apr 06 19:05:44 <qwerty12_N800> ai!!!!!!!!
Apr 06 19:07:16 <shapr> Yay, with enough poking, the install script is downloading!
Apr 06 19:08:42 * KotCzarny pokes shapr
Apr 06 19:10:00 * shapr cheers
Apr 06 19:13:27 <dieman> ok
Apr 06 19:13:31 <dieman> wrong chan
Apr 06 19:13:43 <qwerty12_N800> lol
Apr 06 19:25:09 <KotCzarny> nice
Apr 06 19:25:24 <KotCzarny> now i have still nonworking enter and disabled osk
Apr 06 19:25:25 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 19:26:17 <jott> just stop using hildonized apps
Apr 06 19:26:25 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 19:26:46 <KotCzarny> tell me, how do i set n800 no-hw-kbd ?
Apr 06 19:28:53 <jott> KotCzarny: hm no idea - debian needed /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-xkb.fdi .. maybe you can tweak this ;)
Apr 06 19:33:45 <KotCzarny> who has n800?
Apr 06 19:34:12 <KotCzarny> preferably virgin one
Apr 06 19:42:19 <doc|home> KotCzarny: I do
Apr 06 19:42:22 <doc|home> virginish
Apr 06 19:42:32 <KotCzarny> great
Apr 06 19:42:34 <doc|home> (once got felt up in the back of a car)
Apr 06 19:42:40 <KotCzarny> can you pastebin.com output of: gconftool-2 -R /apps/osso/inputmethod
Apr 06 19:42:57 <doc|home> give me a minute, need to boot it up
Apr 06 19:43:01 <KotCzarny> np
Apr 06 19:47:30 <doc|home> KotCzarny: I have no /apps but I have apps/ but no osso
Apr 06 19:47:40 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 06 19:47:42 <KotCzarny> os2008 ?
Apr 06 19:47:58 <doc|home> yep
Apr 06 19:48:02 <KotCzarny> weird
Apr 06 19:48:10 <doc|home> this week's update too, which is why it's virginish
Apr 06 19:49:16 <KotCzarny> i should have made an backup of gconf /
Apr 06 19:49:39 <doc|home> ok, back later
Apr 06 19:49:46 <KotCzarny> thx anyway
Apr 06 19:50:22 * lcuk looks over at kot and :Ps at him for not treading carefully and not taking backups
Apr 06 19:50:41 <KotCzarny> lcuk, you have n800 ?
Apr 06 19:50:48 <lcuk> no unfortunately 810 here
Apr 06 19:50:54 <KotCzarny> humm
Apr 06 19:50:59 <lcuk> i woulda tried for you before now
Apr 06 19:51:01 <KotCzarny> still, i can use you
Apr 06 19:51:13 <lcuk> be gentle, what ya need
Apr 06 19:51:16 <KotCzarny> can you poste that gconf listing after hiding hw kb?
Apr 06 19:51:26 <KotCzarny> *paste
Apr 06 19:51:40 <lcuk> same thing you asked doc to try:   gconftool-2 -R /apps/osso/inputmethod     ?
Apr 06 19:51:46 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 06 19:51:59 <lcuk> ok will do with kb open and kb closed :)
Apr 06 19:52:04 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 19:52:13 <KotCzarny> you can omit localized tail
Apr 06 19:52:26 <lcuk> ? what you mean
Apr 06 19:52:40 <KotCzarny>  /apps/osso/inputmethod/hildon-im-languages/da_DK etc
Apr 06 19:53:02 <jott> KotCzarny: it's the same :/
Apr 06 19:53:12 <KotCzarny> jott: hmm ?
Apr 06 19:53:29 <jott> diff before after  => nothing
Apr 06 19:53:38 <jott> (before keyboard open after closed)
Apr 06 19:53:49 <KotCzarny> humm
Apr 06 19:54:13 <KotCzarny> weird
Apr 06 19:54:31 <KotCzarny> i believe it should enable osk input plugin when hwk is closed
Apr 06 19:54:38 <KotCzarny> or i'm getting it wrong?
Apr 06 19:55:18 <jott> no i never seen any osk input plugin ;)
Apr 06 19:55:31 <KotCzarny> jott: so on 810 there's no osk?
Apr 06 19:55:32 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 19:55:36 <jott> what for? ;)
Apr 06 19:55:45 <KotCzarny> for backup?
Apr 06 19:55:46 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 06 19:55:52 <jott> you can enable this finger tap thingie..
Apr 06 19:55:53 <KotCzarny> if hwk dies :)
Apr 06 19:56:18 <jott> well if this happens i will walk the reverse route of yours once you found out ;>
Apr 06 19:56:27 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 19:56:33 <jott> or just use xvkb ;)
Apr 06 19:56:40 <KotCzarny> no you won't
Apr 06 19:56:41 <lcuk> the gconf info is just the configuration
Apr 06 19:56:43 <KotCzarny> remember?
Apr 06 19:56:51 <KotCzarny> no 'enter' with hildonized apps
Apr 06 19:56:51 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 06 19:57:06 <lcuk> it doesnt list current actual in use live variables, just settings from what i see
Apr 06 19:57:08 <KotCzarny> i have tried xkbd and it behaves as xvkbd
Apr 06 19:57:09 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 19:59:08 <lcuk> http://pastebin.com/d517f6595
Apr 06 19:59:39 <lcuk> (you have to look at the gb section to get my current user preferences
Apr 06 19:59:58 <lcuk> so asking to ignore those would be bad if it was for some real reason :P
Apr 06 20:00:23 <KotCzarny> its only for dictionary mode
Apr 06 20:00:24 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 20:00:35 <KotCzarny> not related to my problem
Apr 06 20:00:45 <jott> but lcuk has "input_method_plugin = 000_hildon_western_vkb" hm :)
Apr 06 20:00:55 <shapr> Ok, I have scratchbox installed, I think.
Apr 06 20:01:06 * KotCzarny scratches shapr with a box
Apr 06 20:01:18 <shapr> Yay, scratch my coding itch!
Apr 06 20:01:21 <shapr> Aaanyway....
Apr 06 20:01:34 <shapr> How do I start scratchbox now? I used to remember how to do this.
Apr 06 20:01:39 <KotCzarny> now install sdk
Apr 06 20:01:41 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 20:01:47 <KotCzarny> point 3 in that install.txt
Apr 06 20:01:50 <shapr> Hm, I think it is installed.
Apr 06 20:01:52 <shapr> I ran the script.
Apr 06 20:01:55 <KotCzarny> cool
Apr 06 20:02:21 <shapr> Oh, maybe not
Apr 06 20:02:46 <KotCzarny> there are 2 scripts
Apr 06 20:02:51 <KotCzarny> 1 for sb itself
Apr 06 20:02:55 <KotCzarny> 2 for sdk
Apr 06 20:03:05 <KotCzarny> there's also third for nokia binaries
Apr 06 20:04:02 <KotCzarny> btw. see point 3.2
Apr 06 20:04:07 <KotCzarny> for manual install
Apr 06 20:04:35 <KotCzarny> it's also useful if one wants to add another toolchain
Apr 06 20:06:02 <Ziegler> Is it possible to hook up a nokia tablet to a computer via usb an access internet on the tablet?
Apr 06 20:06:14 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 06 20:06:40 <Ziegler> What needs to be done... In brief
Apr 06 20:06:41 <KotCzarny> but it will need some cmdline magic
Apr 06 20:06:49 <Ziegler> Thats ok
Apr 06 20:07:10 <KotCzarny> probably inserting usbnet module
Apr 06 20:07:11 <lcuk> Ziegler, as you may understand it would be simpler if you could get a wifi dongle from somewhere. the road to usb networking is a bit windy
Apr 06 20:07:14 <KotCzarny> and configuring interface
Apr 06 20:07:30 <jott> +lucky chinook usb network
Apr 06 20:07:32 <dtahtbot> jott: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/setting_up_usb_networking/
Apr 06 20:07:39 <KotCzarny> hehe
Apr 06 20:07:49 <KotCzarny> it's the first time this bot is useful
Apr 06 20:07:50 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 20:07:53 <Ziegler> Looking
Apr 06 20:08:30 <jott> it also helps to find xchat ;)
Apr 06 20:08:34 <jott> +lucky xchat chinook
Apr 06 20:08:36 <dtahtbot> jott: http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/
Apr 06 20:08:48 <KotCzarny> +lucky pr0n
Apr 06 20:08:49 <dtahtbot> KotCzarny: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet
Apr 06 20:09:07 <KotCzarny> +lucky tits
Apr 06 20:09:09 <dtahtbot> KotCzarny: http://www.yobt.com/
Apr 06 20:09:26 <KotCzarny> erm..
Apr 06 20:09:38 <KotCzarny> ok, i can't say i didn't asked for it
Apr 06 20:09:40 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 20:09:58 <Ziegler> That works ay?
Apr 06 20:11:06 * lcuk sings
Apr 06 20:11:11 <lcuk> The internet is for porn
Apr 06 20:12:03 <keesj> and geeks
Apr 06 20:12:25 <remicles> does anyone here have any experience with programming sound with OSS in OS2008?  is it possible?
Apr 06 20:12:34 <KotCzarny> oss ?
Apr 06 20:12:38 <KotCzarny> as in open sound system?
Apr 06 20:12:41 <remicles> yeah
Apr 06 20:12:51 <KotCzarny> i have managed to run esddsp
Apr 06 20:12:52 <remicles> googling OSS is a pain too :)
Apr 06 20:13:14 <KotCzarny> but by default oss isn't working
Apr 06 20:13:23 <remicles> ok
Apr 06 20:13:23 <KotCzarny> go for alsa/esd/gst
Apr 06 20:13:36 <KotCzarny> but i would advise gst (gstreamer)
Apr 06 20:14:11 <remicles> ok
Apr 06 20:17:41 <remicles> i was hoping that oss would be possible, since all i want to do is capture speex files from the mic, and then play them back.
Apr 06 20:18:01 <KotCzarny> you can use gst probably
Apr 06 20:18:22 <KotCzarny> i think someone wrote speex plugin for it
Apr 06 20:18:39 <remicles> alright, i'll take a look
Apr 06 20:19:20 <Ziegler> Recorder doesnt do that?
Apr 06 20:19:36 <KotCzarny> not in speex format
Apr 06 20:19:38 <KotCzarny> i believe
Apr 06 20:20:12 <KotCzarny> remicles: i think gstreamer + pygtk will get you rolling fast :)
Apr 06 20:20:17 <Ziegler> Right you are
Apr 06 20:20:37 <Ziegler> Pcm, wav, ilib
Apr 06 20:20:54 <remicles> i'm prototyping an embedded device that will do the same thing, so I'm avoiding anything too advanced (like gst)
Apr 06 20:21:01 <remicles> and i'm working with C
Apr 06 20:21:39 <remicles> but since I doubt i'll actually end up building the device, I might just go with gst anways
Apr 06 20:26:43 <Ziegler> Internet over bluetooth connection on a laptop?
Apr 06 20:26:50 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 06 20:27:16 <Ziegler> Windows laptop?
Apr 06 20:27:25 <KotCzarny> maybe
Apr 06 20:29:00 <Ziegler> Pan driver in windows
Apr 06 20:29:23 <Ziegler> Opps.. Wrong window
Apr 06 20:36:27 * Ziegler newwggs wifi dongle  ;-)
Apr 06 20:36:40 <Ziegler> Newegg*
Apr 06 20:39:33 <KotCzarny> wifi router
Apr 06 20:39:40 <KotCzarny> even better
Apr 06 20:42:24 <Tama^2> Hello everyone
Apr 06 20:43:16 <Proteous> newwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwgggggss
Apr 06 20:44:26 <Ziegler> Any use a usb wifi adapter?
Apr 06 20:44:32 <Proteous> for what?
Apr 06 20:44:53 <Ziegler> For connecting a laptop or tablet to the internet?
Apr 06 20:45:25 <Proteous> you have a laptop without wifi built in?
Apr 06 20:45:27 <Proteous> crazy
Apr 06 20:45:41 <Ziegler> No... Other way
Apr 06 20:45:44 <yllus> I've set my g/f up with a USB wifi adapter after her internal card died
Apr 06 20:45:58 <yllus> Other way? You have wifi without a laptop built in?
Apr 06 20:46:02 <Proteous> heh
Apr 06 20:46:06 <Ziegler> Lol
Apr 06 20:46:12 <Proteous> I'd get a cheap wifi equiped router
Apr 06 20:46:25 <Proteous> then you don't have to keep your computer on
Apr 06 20:47:08 <Ziegler> I am looking for a portable solution to use internet tablet on the internet when a wifi source is not available
Apr 06 20:47:45 <KotCzarny> there are portable wifi routers too
Apr 06 20:48:20 <Ziegler> Hmm
Apr 06 20:49:11 <Ziegler> Anyone have much experience with them?
Apr 06 20:54:54 <yllus> Is a BT connection to a cell phone an option?
Apr 06 20:55:59 <BugBlue> Ziegler: yes
Apr 06 20:56:09 * BugBlue uses a Nokia E51 with HSDPA mobile internet
Apr 06 20:56:12 <BugBlue> (europe)
Apr 06 20:56:19 <BugBlue> up to 3.6Mbit which works pretty well
Apr 06 20:57:09 <Ziegler> Oops
Apr 06 20:57:36 <Ziegler> Cell phone not an option
Apr 06 20:58:02 <BugBlue> using a cell phone as AP?
Apr 06 20:58:47 <Ziegler> No cell
Apr 06 20:58:58 <Ziegler> :-)
Apr 06 20:59:19 <Ziegler> That would be the way to do it though
Apr 06 21:05:06 <Proteous> one of the smallest wifi routers is the apple airport extreme
Apr 06 21:05:24 <Proteous> plugs right into the wall like a power brick
Apr 06 21:05:33 <KotCzarny> but quite expensive too
Apr 06 21:05:36 <KotCzarny> because it's apple
Apr 06 21:05:54 <Proteous> it's about the same as the other compact wifi routers
Apr 06 21:06:12 <KotCzarny> how much?
Apr 06 21:06:14 <Proteous> not as cheap as a cheapo nomral wifi router
Apr 06 21:06:22 <Spakman_> what does "Hildonizing a menu mean"?
Apr 06 21:06:23 <Proteous> $99 I belive
Apr 06 21:06:51 <KotCzarny> spakman: it means that there will be menu active on the left from statusbar icons
Apr 06 21:06:59 <KotCzarny> *to the left
Apr 06 21:07:12 <KotCzarny> proteous: as i said, quite
Apr 06 21:07:13 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 21:07:21 <Spakman_> KotCzarny: so you can switch applications?
Apr 06 21:07:30 <shapr> Ok, since I can't seem to get scratchbox working... Can I do python dev on the device itself?
Apr 06 21:07:39 <KotCzarny> spakman: just run maemo mapper or something
Apr 06 21:07:46 <Proteous> I didn't say it was cheap, I said it was small :P
Apr 06 21:07:49 <Spakman_> KotCzarny: ideal, thanks :)
Apr 06 21:07:50 <KotCzarny> and it's that tab over the window
Apr 06 21:08:34 <Ziegler> Thanks Proteous
Apr 06 21:09:12 <KotCzarny> btw. there was someone who had problems with ape and n8x0
Apr 06 21:09:23 <KotCzarny> so maybe getting a travel linksys is better option
Apr 06 21:09:25 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 06 21:09:35 <shapr> I haven't seen a QR code reader yet... I found a Python lib, but it wraps a C++ lib.. *grumble*
Apr 06 21:09:51 <Proteous> there was someone who had problems getting their n8*0 out of the box, so I would go with the 770
Apr 06 21:10:28 <KotCzarny> shapr: probably
Apr 06 21:10:44 <KotCzarny> define 'python dev'
Apr 06 21:10:54 <shapr> I want to build python applications for my N800.
Apr 06 21:11:13 <KotCzarny> notepad?
Apr 06 21:11:15 <KotCzarny> or whole ide?
Apr 06 21:11:18 * shapr shrugs
Apr 06 21:11:35 <shapr> I don't mind editing via tramp in emacs and using ssh to test.
Apr 06 21:11:54 <KotCzarny> shapr: install sshfs or nfs
Apr 06 21:11:56 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 21:14:05 <Esworp> So, i've got an install conflict i can't seem to resolve.  Stuff is conflicting with
Apr 06 21:14:14 <Esworp> So, i've got an install conflict i can't seem to resolve.  Stuff is conflicting with hildon-libs0.  I dont see it in application manager, and i don't know what imstalled it.  Thoughts?
Apr 06 21:15:25 <KotCzarny> apt-get will give you more info
Apr 06 21:16:05 <Esworp> Heh.  Xterm won't install due to the conflict.
Apr 06 21:16:22 <KotCzarny> ssh?
Apr 06 21:16:52 <KotCzarny> to see all installed packages you can try enabling redpill mode
Apr 06 21:17:10 <Esworp> Haven't tried that, i /really/ dont feeel like getting off the couch :P
Apr 06 21:18:36 <Esworp> Yah redpill. Oh, wait.  What kinda hell wuld i unleash by just removing it? Sounds like it's a dev version of something important.
Apr 06 21:19:03 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 06 21:19:18 <KotCzarny> hildon-libs are used in every app
Apr 06 21:19:25 <KotCzarny> so yes, removing it would be bad
Apr 06 21:19:26 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 21:19:56 <shapr> Is there a becomeroot package for OS2008?
Apr 06 21:20:16 <KotCzarny> probably
Apr 06 21:20:22 <KotCzarny> but ssh will give you root too
Apr 06 21:20:54 <shapr> Yeah, but I want to run airodump, and that requires that I disconnect from wifi.
Apr 06 21:20:57 <KotCzarny> it becomeroot may be named gainroot
Apr 06 21:21:11 <shapr> sudo gainroot asks for R&D mode
Apr 06 21:21:43 <KotCzarny> then enable it
Apr 06 21:21:45 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 21:22:03 <shapr> Well, /etc/sudoers appears to have it enabled...
Apr 06 21:22:08 <Navi> There's an easyroot/becomeroot package
Apr 06 21:22:36 <Navi> give me a second
Apr 06 21:22:43 <KotCzarny> shapr: btw. ssh root@localhost
Apr 06 21:22:46 <KotCzarny> will give you root too
Apr 06 21:22:52 <Navi> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14583
Apr 06 21:22:54 <KotCzarny> assuming you have ssh-server
Apr 06 21:23:03 <KotCzarny> so i believe ssh is a better option
Apr 06 21:23:04 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 21:24:56 <shapr> Aha
Apr 06 23:13:49 <pupnik> Is the person responsible for the maemo/hildon file browser around?
Apr 06 23:14:02 * pupnik holds a giant frozen trout behind his back
Apr 06 23:14:57 <pupnik> Locking up the file browser while it scans thousands of files in subdirectories was brain damaged
Apr 06 23:16:32 * Tama^2 advertises himself has a trout slapping middle man: "100% of the slapping power, 0% risk of retaliation.. for a fee"
Apr 06 23:17:16 <pupnik> hah
Apr 06 23:17:50 <pupnik> if that part of the hildon ui is open source i'd really like to have/build a version with that disabled
Apr 06 23:19:40 <Navi> heh
Apr 06 23:20:11 <lcuk> technically couldnt we have a kick ass browser quite quickly on here?
Apr 06 23:20:24 <lcuk> its not like the supplied one is full features
Apr 06 23:20:25 <KotCzarny> isn't there one already?
Apr 06 23:20:25 <lcuk> d
Apr 06 23:20:30 <KotCzarny> emelfm2 or something
Apr 06 23:20:33 <KotCzarny> and mc of course
Apr 06 23:20:34 <lcuk> well thats what im thinking
Apr 06 23:20:34 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 23:20:52 <pupnik> well this is the hildon browser that for e.g. vgba opens
Apr 06 23:20:57 <pupnik> it would need to replace the system browser
Apr 06 23:21:03 <lcuk> a folder tree and directory list is considered basic example in many grpahics toolkits
Apr 06 23:21:04 <KotCzarny> hum
Apr 06 23:21:29 <KotCzarny> pupnik, there's one in gtk i think
Apr 06 23:21:36 <KotCzarny> though i don't know which one is default
Apr 06 23:21:49 <pupnik> i'm just surprised more people aren't screaming about this
Apr 06 23:21:58 <KotCzarny> maybe noone uses it? ;)
Apr 06 23:22:11 <lcuk> i only notice it locking up when i go over bluetooth
Apr 06 23:22:16 <KotCzarny> medialibraries is all the rage nowadays..
Apr 06 23:22:18 * KotCzarny spits
Apr 06 23:22:38 <lcuk> medialibrary is a cached version of a file browser
Apr 06 23:23:53 <lcuk> it takes time to sscan media files to give a lowdown of their huge libraries - it makes sense to cache some of that info
Apr 06 23:24:23 <KotCzarny> it doesn't make sense to gather that info ALL the time
Apr 06 23:24:31 <lcuk> although, i would prefer a small cache to be kept on a folder and shared by different media tools - for instance the thumbnails is used by all diff programs
Apr 06 23:24:41 <KotCzarny> it should be generated on the fly
Apr 06 23:24:57 <KotCzarny> ie, small list of files, and metadata read when needed
Apr 06 23:25:01 <lcuk> but i think thats what the crawler tries to do
Apr 06 23:25:18 <lcuk> it annoys people because it slows system down and drains battery and occasionally fucks itself up
Apr 06 23:25:32 <KotCzarny> and is totally unnecessary
Apr 06 23:25:40 <lcuk> people dont keep everything in one small file
Apr 06 23:25:43 <KotCzarny> if i want to show the device for someone
Apr 06 23:25:54 <KotCzarny> i have to wait till canola scans whole device
Apr 06 23:26:07 <KotCzarny> and they say.. hey. this things loads slooowly
Apr 06 23:26:13 <KotCzarny> *thing
Apr 06 23:26:21 <lcuk> read pupniks problem, hell even look in the source folder for the kernel - to cache all that as programming information (which is what I would want from the metadata) would not be important to other people
Apr 06 23:26:40 <KotCzarny> no caching, and no gathering
Apr 06 23:26:48 <lcuk> but people expect to find
Apr 06 23:26:53 <lcuk> and see
Apr 06 23:26:59 <KotCzarny> have a list of files
Apr 06 23:27:02 <KotCzarny> without metadata
Apr 06 23:27:12 <KotCzarny> generate metadata only when needed
Apr 06 23:27:25 <lcuk> file lists do not convey information about your porn folder than a grid of thumbnails
Apr 06 23:27:36 <lcuk> arranged by boob size
Apr 06 23:27:43 <KotCzarny> why should it
Apr 06 23:27:44 <pupnik> bah, i put my files on the card, i know where they are :/
Apr 06 23:27:50 <KotCzarny> yup
Apr 06 23:27:52 <KotCzarny> exactly
Apr 06 23:28:53 <lcuk> it should show like that because i want it to - BUT - from the inverse if the scanner were bright and intelligent, it would scan the files in inverse datestamp order.  displaying the latest updated files first
Apr 06 23:29:13 <lcuk> it *would* work well because the active stuff you are working on would display in search queries before the older stuff is seen
Apr 06 23:29:18 <lcuk> hmm kot.
Apr 06 23:29:19 <lcuk> ..
Apr 06 23:29:25 <KotCzarny> mm?
Apr 06 23:29:29 <lcuk> mmm indeed
Apr 06 23:29:31 <pupnik> i would be happy if the file browser let me go to a subdirectory while it was scanning directories also
Apr 06 23:30:44 <pupnik> so i showed numpty physics to my mom who hates computers, and she immediately started playing it
Apr 06 23:30:54 <lcuk> i use a file search tool on windows.  i wrote it to recursively scan a set of folders for string patterns within specified set of source files.  ie grep but code based.    anyway, if i use modified date on that folder tree, the live stuff arrives first allowing me a good search speed to gratification level
Apr 06 23:31:00 <pupnik> first video 'game' she ever played in her life, and she enjoyed it
Apr 06 23:31:10 <lcuk> same with my gf pupnik - it makes you want to touch it
Apr 06 23:31:20 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 23:31:30 <lcuk> but the same could occur for media scanning
Apr 06 23:31:40 <KotCzarny> imagine a game with 3D gyro
Apr 06 23:31:41 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 06 23:32:06 <lcuk> low res stops me from thinking in that direction kot
Apr 06 23:32:19 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 23:32:32 <lcuk> if they increase the resolution as well as the 3dness - it might look attractive
Apr 06 23:32:37 <lcuk> but very confined
Apr 06 23:32:50 <lcuk> 3gness*
Apr 06 23:34:16 <sandman__> does anyone know of an active project to configure an SELinux policy for maemo
Apr 06 23:34:31 <sandman__> or that is creating an SElinux policy
Apr 06 23:43:04 <lcuk> hildon sits ontop of x doesnt it
Apr 06 23:43:44 <KotCzarny> on top of gtk
Apr 06 23:43:46 <KotCzarny> i think
Apr 06 23:43:53 <lcuk> which sits on x
Apr 06 23:43:56 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 06 23:45:21 <KotCzarny> but also uses dbus
Apr 06 23:47:00 <lcuk> im just thinking about why you needed to make an x list thing
Apr 06 23:47:17 <KotCzarny> hmm?
Apr 06 23:47:45 <KotCzarny> that kciconxbox?
Apr 06 23:47:53 <lcuk> if hildon was a tweaked x which forced windows in certain locations and visibility etc then it might end up being possible to just compile direct
Apr 06 23:48:17 <KotCzarny> it's more about registering windows with hildon itself
Apr 06 23:48:30 <lcuk> just running a standard x window becomes registered and known to hildon for listing etc
Apr 06 23:48:32 <KotCzarny> all programs call hildon_program()
Apr 06 23:48:52 <lcuk> lol thats what i mean - why cant that call come in the open_x
Apr 06 23:48:53 <KotCzarny> but that rquires hildon/gtk linking
Apr 06 23:49:12 <KotCzarny> lcuk, because for that you would have to hack xlib
Apr 06 23:49:13 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 23:49:19 <KotCzarny> libx11
Apr 06 23:49:20 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 06 23:49:33 <lcuk> oooh look, a can of worms
Apr 06 23:50:12 <KotCzarny> what would be simplier is to create small helper lib
Apr 06 23:50:16 <lcuk> i'll just carry on making a text editor
Apr 06 23:50:18 <KotCzarny> or just a chunk of code
Apr 06 23:50:22 <KotCzarny> to register a window
Apr 06 23:50:31 <lcuk> or to watch for windows being registered
Apr 06 23:50:41 <KotCzarny> maybe
Apr 06 23:51:19 <KotCzarny> or just writing nav-bar plugin that's drop-in compatible
Apr 06 23:51:19 <lcuk> have you got a bt keyboard by the way
Apr 06 23:51:20 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 06 23:51:24 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 06 23:51:42 <lcuk> good..
Apr 06 23:52:03 * lcuk goes back to the shed
Apr 06 23:52:11 * KotCzarny goes back to playroom
Apr 06 23:52:26 <KotCzarny> *gamesroom
Apr 07 00:12:56 <pupnik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9RAPNa-55k  video playing on omap 3430 dev board
Apr 07 00:14:31 <pupnik> also check out the user for an early emulator demo running on it
Apr 07 00:25:53 <lcuk> pupnik: how cool would that be with stylus
Apr 07 00:26:24 <lcuk> thats prob playable at lower resolution and we can move the screen fast enough down there
Apr 07 00:27:21 <pupnik> i think the game runs on xmame
Apr 07 00:27:44 <pupnik> if you want to fix up openTyrian's mouse handling, that'd be great :)
Apr 07 00:28:16 <lcuk> what would you do -> fly the cursor to the most recent tap point?
Apr 07 00:28:46 <lcuk> or just have it jumping
Apr 07 00:28:46 <pupnik> yes
Apr 07 00:28:50 <pupnik> no no
Apr 07 00:29:00 <pupnik> acceleration-based motion-to-tap-destination
Apr 07 00:29:29 <lcuk> no, it would have to be a cursor moved around like you move the space ship around - ie a combination of dpads
Apr 07 00:29:52 <pupnik> i don't understand
Apr 07 00:30:03 <pupnik> i imagine tap a position on screen and ship flies to it
Apr 07 00:30:32 <lcuk> yes so do i - its ok i misread
Apr 07 00:30:32 <pupnik> (opentyrian)
Apr 07 00:30:47 <KotCzarny> that's what i thought
Apr 07 00:30:50 <KotCzarny> move queue
Apr 07 00:30:51 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 07 00:31:03 <KotCzarny> with a tap on the end
Apr 07 00:31:09 <KotCzarny> not on the start
Apr 07 00:31:19 <lcuk> but since the game is geared to a koystick/dpad interface it would need to send a combination of left/right/up/downs to the original game
Apr 07 00:31:59 <pupnik> opentyrian responds variably to mouse speed, or binary to dpad
Apr 07 00:32:02 <lcuk> it would be tricky to try to get something fixed up
Apr 07 00:32:14 <KotCzarny> i have to sit down and finally write the code for uae
Apr 07 00:32:15 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 07 00:32:17 <pupnik> i looked at the mouse stuff and it made brain confused
Apr 07 00:33:50 <lcuk> if a game was designed for moust that is fine, but as a general bit of code how could it be made to work for arcade games which use joypad event handlers
Apr 07 00:34:11 <pupnik> i have no answer for that
Apr 07 00:34:18 <lcuk> i dont think there is one tbh
Apr 07 00:34:56 <lcuk> its a piece of magic code: a abutton which when you press it will produce code to do specifically what you want without knowing everything about everywhere
Apr 07 00:35:22 * lcuk hates customers who ask for those
Apr 07 00:35:41 <KotCzarny> but if you write one
Apr 07 00:35:49 <KotCzarny> you are amazed usually
Apr 07 00:35:53 <KotCzarny> how good they are
Apr 07 00:35:58 <KotCzarny> (those magic buttons)
Apr 07 00:36:11 <lcuk> those magic buttons are only as good as the information around them
Apr 07 00:36:16 <lcuk> shit in, shit out
Apr 07 00:36:49 <KotCzarny> and shit gets magically done
Apr 07 00:36:49 <lcuk> spec it nicely and you give yourself more than enough info to answer most questions
Apr 07 00:36:50 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 07 00:37:02 * lcuk replaces kot with a short shell script
Apr 07 00:37:24 * KotCzarny yawns and persists
Apr 07 00:37:54 <lcuk> star_persist( &stars[starused] );
Apr 07 00:38:31 <KotCzarny> return(yawn);
Apr 07 00:41:21 <pupnik>   old news but pasted here for better hits.  Ti released a compiler for the nokia c54x dsp http://open.neurostechnology.com/node/1020
Apr 07 00:42:04 <KotCzarny> have you noticed, that TI in reverse is IT ?
Apr 07 00:42:05 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 07 00:42:40 <pupnik> yeah, and "IT" was the evil brain that controlled all the people in Madeleine L'Engle's "A Wrinkle in Time"
Apr 07 00:42:59 * KotCzarny remembers "IT" as an evil clown
Apr 07 00:43:15 <pupnik> Speaking of clowns, it's Crispin Glover's birthday soon.
Apr 07 00:44:01 <pupnik> http://youtube.com/watch?v=WsSx5NA6sXw   Crispin Glover "Clowny Clown Clown"
Apr 07 00:47:07 <KotCzarny> watching things mutes is great
Apr 07 00:47:25 <KotCzarny> sound usually stops brain from thinking
Apr 07 00:47:27 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 07 00:52:44 <pupnik> nah the terrible music is essential
Apr 07 00:54:50 * pupnik shakes a bony fist at the sky and yells "what is the POINT!?"
Apr 07 00:58:45 <pupnik> haha and intel you can shove atom up your own asses. epic FAIL. gwaafafhasnorkel
Apr 07 01:04:21 <Ziegler> Is it just rumor that a open source wifi driver exists?
Apr 07 01:04:53 <pupnik> now i've heard there was a rumor
Apr 07 01:05:09 <KotCzarny> it's as open as intel wifi open source driver
Apr 07 01:05:14 <pupnik> so at least there's a rumor that there was a rumour
Apr 07 01:06:07 <Ziegler> Hehe...  I realize nothing reguarding wifi from nokia is os, but i thought i saw some talk of a comuntiy version
Apr 07 01:06:26 <Ziegler> But could not find a single file
Apr 07 01:07:35 <KotCzarny> https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=12
Apr 07 01:07:50 <KotCzarny> but you still need binary blob from original initfs
Apr 07 01:07:53 <KotCzarny> named umac.ko
Apr 07 01:08:05 <fysa> oh god pupnik
Apr 07 01:08:07 <fysa> you found Crispin Glover.
Apr 07 01:08:11 <fysa> I had that album.
Apr 07 01:09:08 <pupnik> my roommate had the cd with clowns.  been damaged by it for many years now
Apr 07 01:09:19 <Ziegler> Interesting...
Apr 07 01:11:15 <Ziegler>  Thanks for the link
Apr 07 01:11:27 <pupnik> http://www.planetgong.co.uk/octave/cd/passednormal.shtml  also 'Passed Normal', vol 5 is worth getting if you're adventurous about music
Apr 07 01:15:57 <pupnik> wow 'Passed Normal' Vol 4 going for $140 in europe
Apr 07 01:21:56 <KotCzarny> http://www.techamok.com/?pid=4346
Apr 07 01:21:58 <KotCzarny> heh..
Apr 07 01:22:05 <KotCzarny> 'great' news
Apr 07 01:27:41 <esworp> so i got an 'issue'.  some apps won't install because of a conflict with hildon-libs0.  seems like the version i have is bogus, as i see one availible in redpill mode but cant delete thee old one to replace it.
Apr 07 01:28:27 <esworp> and as my luck would have it, xterm cant be installed because of this conflict.
Apr 07 01:32:58 <esworp> :/
Apr 07 02:43:40 <unixSnob> any TaxCut users here?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Apr 07 02:59:56 2008