**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 16 02:59:56 2008 Apr 16 03:09:24 hi all Apr 16 03:27:44 he said 'fiber channel' huhuhuh Apr 16 03:30:18 who? Apr 16 03:50:59 johnx, you have an Eee PC? Apr 16 03:58:40 http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/020569.html oil isn't getting more expensive... if you use real money Apr 16 03:59:10 Hehe Apr 16 03:59:30 * GeneralAntilles rants for the gold standard for a bit. Apr 16 03:59:35 that chart doesn't say what you think it does Apr 16 03:59:48 but, yeah, a big problem with the "price of oil" is the suckitude of the dollar Apr 16 04:00:17 gold is artificially inflated right now for various good and not-so-good reasons Apr 16 04:00:36 it's not nearly as *useful* as its price, it's a fiat currency just like dollars or Euros or whatever Apr 16 04:00:44 it's not the gold, but deflation of other 'money' types Apr 16 04:01:01 only real currency is energy Apr 16 04:01:02 :) Apr 16 04:01:05 (the other precious metals are all much more representative of real value, because they have industrial value above and beyond their shiny factor) Apr 16 04:01:19 KotCzarny: Gold is inflated more than the dollar is deflated Apr 16 04:01:28 no it's not a fiat currency, it's a natural currency which evolved from the market Apr 16 04:01:43 oh, sure, it's a market-traded currency Apr 16 04:01:52 but its value isn't based on any fundamental worth Apr 16 04:01:57 elb: it goes up and down, but it's a good indicator of rulers currency value Apr 16 04:01:58 unlike, say, silver or copper Apr 16 04:02:00 elb: frankly, that's bollocks Apr 16 04:02:22 doc|home: frankly, you're going to have to be a lot more specific Apr 16 04:02:28 gold has a value as a store of wealth Apr 16 04:02:34 has had one for thousands of years Apr 16 04:02:44 right, but that value is based on a perception Apr 16 04:02:50 and it's divisible, unlike diamonds Apr 16 04:02:53 given that the money supply increased 17% last year alone, how can you say gold of all things is overpriced Apr 16 04:02:58 and the fact that you can't just 'print' gold Apr 16 04:03:07 elb: what's the value of the dollar based on? Apr 16 04:03:17 doc: it's a promise Apr 16 04:03:18 it sure as hell isn't the value of the paper and the ink Apr 16 04:03:19 doc|home: and gold has increased by 100% in the past 48 months :-P Apr 16 04:03:21 from the rulers Apr 16 04:03:23 KotCzarny: a promise of what? Apr 16 04:03:31 that it has a value Apr 16 04:03:32 oh, yes, the dollar is absolutely based on perception Apr 16 04:03:39 that doesn't make gold *not* perception Apr 16 04:03:39 elb: right, and why do you think that might be? Apr 16 04:03:39 and can be exchanged for goods Apr 16 04:03:42 there's a logical fallacy there Apr 16 04:03:43 or services Apr 16 04:03:48 KotCzarny: what quantity of goods? Apr 16 04:03:59 not a set one, that's for sure Apr 16 04:04:01 doc: that's where it goes murky Apr 16 04:04:05 precisely Apr 16 04:04:19 now, look at this and tell me it's not the dollar that's being inflated http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/oil-gold-commodities-47041507 Apr 16 04:04:30 doc|home: because people *perceive* gold as having value which its intrinsic properties, in an industrial sense, do not support Apr 16 04:04:34 it's *shiny* Apr 16 04:04:57 yes, that is no doubt what pupnik pasted which started this conversation Apr 16 04:05:00 elb: who gives a shit about shiny? it's that it's long lasting, limited in supply and can not be printed at the whim off a politician Apr 16 04:05:08 *of a Apr 16 04:05:10 paying attention is awesome Apr 16 04:05:20 limited in supply is meaningless if it has no *value* Apr 16 04:05:23 elb: I joined late, so sue me, that doesn't make the graph any less true Apr 16 04:05:27 my fecal matter is limited in supply Apr 16 04:05:30 but none of you are going to buy it Apr 16 04:05:32 elb: its value is as a commodity that can be traded Apr 16 04:05:39 I think you need to read the beginning of the discussion Apr 16 04:05:49 because I don't think you're arguing against what you think you're arguing against Apr 16 04:05:53 elb: right, because your fecal matter will disappear Apr 16 04:05:59 I might sue you for non sequitur drivel Apr 16 04:06:02 it degrades Apr 16 04:06:06 elb: huh? Apr 16 04:06:29 but ... I'll go to bed, instead Apr 16 04:06:32 :) Apr 16 04:06:34 nice, run along then Apr 16 04:06:52 (note that gold *also* cannot be traded for a "set quantity" of goods) Apr 16 04:06:53 truth is, rulers need cheap slaves Apr 16 04:06:56 see, introduce logic and people quickly disappear Apr 16 04:07:05 and money is a good way to control them Apr 16 04:07:09 think about that fr a few minutes and see if you can understand that gold is traded for value just like the dollar Apr 16 04:07:25 I completely agree with you that printing money and etc. are bad, I think you're not arguing against what you think you are Apr 16 04:07:31 elb: 3.4 grams (or so) of it can be traded for a barrel of oil, just like 8 years ago, that's much more set than the dollar Apr 16 04:07:36 but that doesn't make gold something of magic ever-lasting value and use Apr 16 04:07:53 yup Apr 16 04:07:56 ufo invasion Apr 16 04:07:58 elb: no it doesn't, but it's a hell of a lot better than the paper with the presidents heads on it Apr 16 04:08:02 from a gold rich planet Apr 16 04:08:02 :) Apr 16 04:08:14 yes, it is more set than the dollar -- but when the dollar regains traction and the value of gold falls (which it will, it always does), the dollar will appear to *gain* versus gold Apr 16 04:08:20 and likely the price of oil will not fall consummately Apr 16 04:08:21 KotCzarny: then I'll be the first to say gold is a bad idea Apr 16 04:08:31 elb: why is the dollar going to regain traction? Apr 16 04:08:36 hi Apr 16 04:08:40 i agree with elb that gold can loose value as well Apr 16 04:08:50 elb: look back at the last 90 years, where has it regained traction? Apr 16 04:08:53 ALL I said was, gold is also not based on intrinsic *useful* value, whereas several otehr precious metals *are* Apr 16 04:09:04 but for now it has more value than paper Apr 16 04:09:09 doc|home: 2001 Apr 16 04:09:14 hmm Apr 16 04:09:21 gold has useful value Apr 16 04:09:28 elb: sure, but that makes it more useful, not less, as a store of wealth, there's not going to be supply/demand cycles in its value Apr 16 04:09:32 KotCzarny: yes, it does, but not $900/oz useful value Apr 16 04:09:38 (i.e. the quantity of goods it can buy) Apr 16 04:09:39 heh Apr 16 04:09:44 because $$ has no value Apr 16 04:09:46 elb: pffft, 2001? that's a blip in the overall graph Apr 16 04:09:51 doc|home: of course Apr 16 04:09:58 the dollar is inherently inflationary Apr 16 04:10:00 I don't disagree Apr 16 04:10:00 the dollar is now worth 3 cents compared to 90 years ago Apr 16 04:10:09 as I said, you're not arguing against what you think you're arguing against Apr 16 04:10:25 what is it I'm arguing against if that's the case? Apr 16 04:10:37 I suspect I agree with you more than I disagree with you on basing a currency -- but you saw someone saying that Ron Paul's gift of gold was less than absolute gospel and blew your top Apr 16 04:11:06 I already said -- ALL I claimed is that the value of gold is NOT based on its inherent worht as a substance, it has fiat value based on perceived worth Apr 16 04:11:22 true Apr 16 04:11:28 its value *is* it being a store of wealth, how is that not intrinsic? Apr 16 04:11:32 but that value is probably stable Apr 16 04:11:34 and note additionally that that value is currently propped up by major world governments hoarding it Apr 16 04:12:02 (as well as regulating the release of new supply) Apr 16 04:12:08 hmm Apr 16 04:12:18 world is moving to 'credit' money anyway Apr 16 04:12:23 elb: governments hoarding it? they mostly offloaded it as much as possible to keep its value down Apr 16 04:12:31 that's worth even less than paper Apr 16 04:12:32 doc|home: tell that to Fort Knox ;-) Apr 16 04:12:33 it having a high value shows openly how much their inflating Apr 16 04:12:48 elb: fort knox? which hasn't had a public audit in decades? Apr 16 04:12:59 there are many countries of the world where it's still not legal to own bullion Apr 16 04:13:08 oh, now I'm not going to get into conspiracy theories Apr 16 04:13:27 elb: that's no theory, it's a fact, there hasn't been one Apr 16 04:13:49 that's fine -- but suggesting that that means there's no gold left is a conspiracy theory Apr 16 04:14:13 anyway, I really am going to bed Apr 16 04:14:19 and I really do think we need to fix the currency Apr 16 04:14:20 :> Apr 16 04:14:21 elb: given that the ECB sells up to 500 tonnes a year, and the british sold off massive quantities early this decade, I really don't see how you can believe they're hoarding it Apr 16 04:14:41 (but I don't think gold, specifically, is a magic fairy dust) Apr 16 04:15:10 I don't either, but I don't care for its magical qualities, I care for it as a store of wealth and a means of preventing governments from inflating at their own whim Apr 16 04:15:24 * GeneralAntilles starts hoarding magic fairy dust in preparation for its eventual use as currency. Apr 16 04:15:29 hahaha Apr 16 04:15:36 * doc|home hadn't thought of that :o Apr 16 04:16:07 it's only a store of wealth because people believe it is a store of wealth Apr 16 04:16:09 * GeneralAntilles also starts hoarding elb's poo through a proxy just in case. Apr 16 04:16:12 think about that until it registers ;-) Apr 16 04:16:26 "but it's a store of wealth, so it has inherent value" is a circular argument Apr 16 04:16:46 it was during most of the human history Apr 16 04:16:51 why should it change now? Apr 16 04:17:00 elb: you mean like the last few thousand years? Apr 16 04:17:03 I'm a fairy Apr 16 04:17:11 Navi: in the gay sense? Apr 16 04:17:14 people love shiny things, don't get me wrong Apr 16 04:17:16 * GeneralAntilles hold Navi hostage in his basement. Apr 16 04:17:20 good for you! hope thay works out for you Apr 16 04:17:27 look at diamonds as a good example of what I mean Apr 16 04:17:29 doc|home, in they "Hey! Listen!" sense. Apr 16 04:17:34 hehe Apr 16 04:17:37 (note that diamonds were essentially worthless until DeBeers got ahold of them) Apr 16 04:18:02 elb: really, it's not about the shiny, and you make yourself sound silly to anyone who actually has a clue about why gold has a value when you say such things Apr 16 04:18:09 (and they still *are* ... unless they've been blessed by a magical closed very fiat-like process -- industrial diamonds are nearly free, and they have actual *use*) Apr 16 04:18:13 mirrors are shiny too Apr 16 04:18:16 doc|home: it has value because it's a store of wealth! Apr 16 04:18:23 welcome to failing PHIL 101 ;-) Apr 16 04:18:43 Let's all bank on copper. Apr 16 04:18:44 nice, avoiding the reasoning as to why it's a store of wealth, congratulations Apr 16 04:18:52 hmm Apr 16 04:18:53 GeneralAntilles: I'll take it over paper :/ Apr 16 04:18:57 why is it a store of wealth? Apr 16 04:19:00 it's limited, fine Apr 16 04:19:00 it all boils down to humans Apr 16 04:19:03 so are lots of other things Apr 16 04:19:11 nice, avoiding reality Apr 16 04:19:13 now go look up diamonds Apr 16 04:19:17 elb: do I get a chance to reply? Apr 16 04:19:19 while I sleep Apr 16 04:19:30 and it doesn't matter what do you use as a currency as long it's stable Apr 16 04:19:32 or are you just going to try to say things quickly so you sound superior? Apr 16 04:19:44 and then rush off before I get the chance Apr 16 04:20:15 KotCzarny: definitely, but the demands of politics means there's waaaay too much temptation to do anything but keep it stable. Apr 16 04:20:28 hello, Apr 16 04:20:53 I want to use OpenGL ES in maemo to develop the application in c++ Apr 16 04:20:53 that's been the downfall of currencies for most of history, even in metals when there's debasement Apr 16 04:20:56 yeah.. politics Apr 16 04:21:10 any body can help to set up the development environment?? Apr 16 04:21:34 doc|home: you can reply if you like, I haven't seen anything logical yet Apr 16 04:21:48 maybe you're just slow and distracted by what I type ... but I've seen arguments from this rant before Apr 16 04:21:53 it all comes down to "it has value because it has value" Apr 16 04:21:57 Gold can be used in food and has the E Number 175. Apr 16 04:21:59 hehe Apr 16 04:22:22 but if you can't eat it, and you can't make stuff to process stuff you can eat from it, it ain't got intrinsic value Apr 16 04:22:32 it does ship those electrons mighty fast, though Apr 16 04:22:39 How i Can use OpenGL ES / Mesa with maemo Apr 16 04:22:41 ? Apr 16 04:22:46 elb: it has value because the supply can't grow any faster than it's mined. Politicians can't make it as they like, which reduces inflation. As fast as its mined is somewhere close to population growth. Apr 16 04:22:53 sarower, with magic Apr 16 04:22:58 it's easily divisible and is durable Apr 16 04:23:07 sarower: have you installed the maemo SDK yet? Apr 16 04:23:10 sarower: is pretty useless imo Apr 16 04:23:19 and it's used by most countries Apr 16 04:23:30 elb: that is why, over history, non-metal based currencies fail and metal based ones always reappear Apr 16 04:23:37 Kulve: yes i have installed Maemo SDK 3.X Apr 16 04:23:51 I recommend 4.X, as the 3 is the old one Apr 16 04:24:00 pupnik: Could not understand .. Apr 16 04:24:20 sarower: no hardware gl. only software. slow. useless Apr 16 04:24:20 but 4.x do not have open gl support Apr 16 04:24:35 pupnik: he needs it for learning, probably Apr 16 04:24:38 sarower: both 3 and 4 have the same support: none Apr 16 04:24:39 ohhh Apr 16 04:24:43 at least from i understood Apr 16 04:24:49 *from what Apr 16 04:24:57 doc|home: I totally agree with all of that Apr 16 04:25:01 but ti doesn't change my claims :-) Apr 16 04:25:22 as I said ... you're not arguing against what I'm saying, you're arguing against the fact that I wasn't kissy-kissy with gold Apr 16 04:25:25 sarower: so, install the 4.0, then install e.g. the vincent packages, and start coding Apr 16 04:25:40 nah you just have a utilitarian view of value elb Apr 16 04:26:00 kulve: If i install nincent package... will it work? Apr 16 04:26:06 whereas the austrians prove Ricardo and Adam Smith misunderstood valuation. Apr 16 04:26:11 sarower: yse Apr 16 04:26:26 what would be the syntax... ? Apr 16 04:26:33 So if people value gold because it's shiny, then gold has value. Apr 16 04:26:34 Kulve? Apr 16 04:26:41 sarower: the normal open gl es C API Apr 16 04:26:49 sarower: you can code that on a PC too.. Apr 16 04:26:50 openglES or Glut or Glu? Apr 16 04:26:56 ES Apr 16 04:27:09 elb: that is inherent value, we're not talking about industrial value Apr 16 04:27:14 Ok lets have a try..! Apr 16 04:27:25 something doesn't have to have industrial value to have inherent value Apr 16 04:27:27 sorry i'll stopp offtopic Apr 16 04:27:33 Kulve: Do you have any experience ? Apr 16 04:28:00 hmm, btw. any idea what can be used as a real indicator of value? Apr 16 04:28:09 Then what would be the best way of installing the vincent package? Apr 16 04:28:13 Kluve? Apr 16 04:28:14 sarower: not much on open gl. I did run somebody's demo on my n810. The FPS was about 0.2 Apr 16 04:28:16 because from what i have seen everything moves up and down Apr 16 04:28:41 and the whole talk about gold value is meaningless a little Apr 16 04:28:44 sarower: the normal way, adding the repository for apt, then installing it with apt-get Apr 16 04:29:07 do you know the repository location? Apr 16 04:30:56 hii... how to install ogg-support on N810... when i try "gst-inspect oggdemux" it says no element oggdemux Apr 16 04:31:18 Kulve: Thank you very much! lets see what happen! Apr 16 04:31:32 Now can I talk to Mr. Navi please!!! Apr 16 04:31:43 lol Apr 16 04:31:47 Navi: I want to talk to you now Apr 16 04:31:57 Why? Apr 16 04:32:01 What do you think?? Apr 16 04:32:12 about using the open gl in maemo? Apr 16 04:32:55 you saying: sarower, with magic Apr 16 04:35:43 not many people do this sarower Apr 16 04:35:55 i.e. no people Apr 16 04:36:03 hmm... I know! Apr 16 04:42:31 soman: you click the single install file from the maemo.org/downloads Apr 16 04:46:40 kulve: when i try to download oggsupport from N810 .. it it says "uanable to install. software contains updates to packages installed from a different source and is likely to harm the system. contact software author" Apr 16 04:47:35 soman: oh, that's new to me.. Apr 16 04:47:49 soman: have you installed mogg before install ogg-support? Apr 16 04:48:02 kulve : yup Apr 16 04:48:36 ok, so you probably need to remove the libogg and libivorbisdec from the commandline :( Apr 16 04:48:38 I believe it's trying to pull updated packages from a different repo Apr 16 04:48:43 Try with apt-get. Apr 16 04:50:22 GeneralAntilles: it is, because my packages comes from my repo, and mogg packages from extras Apr 16 04:50:45 * GeneralAntilles wishes there weren't so many damn repos. Apr 16 04:51:09 not that simple Apr 16 04:51:38 No, but still. ;) Apr 16 04:51:54 It hurts users more than it hinders developers. Apr 16 04:52:08 and that error is only because nokia desided do something different than e.g. debian does Apr 16 04:52:36 kulve :how to remove libogg and libvorbisdec and mogg Apr 16 04:52:58 format c:\ Apr 16 04:53:14 (ok, that wasn't funny) Apr 16 04:53:32 soman: log in as root, apt-get remove libogg libivorbisdec Apr 16 04:57:17 kulve: do i need to remove all the packages with which theres a conflict.... in the application details - problems tab -- it lists many packages under "conflict with application packages" Apr 16 04:59:38 there shouldn't be many.. Apr 16 05:00:04 I'm sorry, but I have to leave now. Apr 16 05:00:05 bbl Apr 16 05:17:03 Hi Apr 16 05:21:05 kulve : it says "Application packages missing : libtheora0" Apr 16 05:21:20 do i need to install libtheora0 Apr 16 05:22:19 is there another irc client on 2008 than telepathy ? Apr 16 05:22:26 xchat beta Apr 16 05:22:40 where can i found it Apr 16 05:22:43 I was going to build irssi, but realized there was no point Apr 16 05:22:59 don t see it in gronmayer database' Apr 16 05:23:12 nor my current repos list Apr 16 05:23:31 http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/ Apr 16 05:23:43 Link courtesy of GeneralAntilles Apr 16 05:24:11 Ha Apr 16 05:24:26 Don't ha me Apr 16 05:24:39 ha Apr 16 05:24:40 thx Apr 16 05:25:06 :) Apr 16 05:28:11 re Apr 16 05:30:34 phail Apr 16 05:30:42 ? Apr 16 05:33:21 osso-xterm is really a pain to use on os200i Apr 16 05:33:23 8 Apr 16 05:33:51 version for os2007 was far better and more stable Apr 16 05:34:06 http://www.sse2.net/xterm Apr 16 05:34:44 Blame a combination of Nokia's stupid-ass UI spec and rushed programming. Apr 16 05:36:09 the worst problem is the duplicate bug toolbar Apr 16 05:37:03 an other one is when script end ... no other windows can be open until precedent script window is closed Apr 16 05:38:08 Hehe Apr 16 05:38:23 GeneralAntilles > what is your project about application installer ? i ve understood well what u say on your web site Apr 16 05:38:34 I have a website? Apr 16 05:38:55 wow, tabletschool article is spot on Apr 16 05:39:20 oups sorry it s not your with xchat packages Apr 16 05:39:41 Oh, right, I understand the misunderstanding. Apr 16 05:39:52 Navi was just referencing the fact that I'm always pasting that xchat link in here. ;) Apr 16 05:40:02 it s morning ... not really wake up yep :) Apr 16 05:40:13 Ugh, Canola is exactly the wrong interface to use for the tablets. :\ Apr 16 05:40:15 Ooh, that xterm is awesome Apr 16 05:40:19 Krisse is dead wrong on this one. Apr 16 05:40:36 What's wrong with the canola interface? Apr 16 05:40:38 i hate canola Apr 16 05:40:45 it s useless Apr 16 05:40:50 Nothing in particular Apr 16 05:40:58 too much thing to play a song Apr 16 05:41:04 but it doesn't make sense as a replacement for Hildon. Apr 16 05:41:16 Navi, http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/ Apr 16 05:41:17 i hate hildon Apr 16 05:42:05 i like the result of hildon but i hate the lack of signal on manyn hildon widget Apr 16 05:42:06 yeah, canola is maybe not excactly right, but it's far better than hildon Apr 16 05:42:06 I don't disagree with the fact that it needs an overhaul, but Canola is the wrong direction. Apr 16 05:42:13 GeneralAntilles, true Apr 16 05:42:30 Dumbing it down so idiots can pick it up and use it is a stupid reason to change a UI. Apr 16 05:42:35 GeneralAntilles, what direction would you prefer? Apr 16 05:42:52 having no choice is stupid direction Apr 16 05:43:21 if having hildon and/or canola vs hildon only Apr 16 05:43:29 i prefer the first option Apr 16 05:44:26 one thing i would like is fullscreen (or almost) applications by default, i hate that the sidebar and topbar takes up like one fourth of the screen estate Apr 16 05:44:36 how do u make all feature available with an interface like canola Apr 16 05:44:38 Canola is an application, it is no desktop Apr 16 05:45:04 The taskbar and statusbar need a workover Apr 16 05:45:13 Horizontal space is probably the most important. Apr 16 05:45:14 RST38h, i think the point is canolas user interface, not canola per se Apr 16 05:45:24 Taskbar needs to be cut down by half and maybe moved to the bottom. Apr 16 05:45:29 Canola's user interface is a pretty standard PMP UI Apr 16 05:45:33 (or at least be configurable) Apr 16 05:45:41 It is good for PMP, but not for general stuff Apr 16 05:45:47 jeddy3 > i like the toolbar on the right ... i can switch easily between apps Apr 16 05:45:56 Halving the taskbar would double the number of items it can hold. Apr 16 05:46:04 are there canola widgets? no, it's an standalone app Apr 16 05:46:12 *a Apr 16 05:46:26 Nothing prohibits Nokia from starting Canola by default and always keeping it on, though Apr 16 05:46:38 horizontal space is important for some people ! but for others it s vertical space ! Apr 16 05:46:42 (they just need to throw in more SDRAM for that) Apr 16 05:46:48 Which is why it should be configurable. Apr 16 05:47:21 Khertan_on_n810, you could switch applications with something smaller than a two decimeter wide bar always visible =) Apr 16 05:47:40 But a much smaller taskbar at the bottom would both practically eliminates horizontal browser scrolling in windowed mode, increase the amount of space for statusbar applets, and increase taskbar space. Apr 16 05:47:52 jeddy3 > yes but i ll need to use stylus Apr 16 05:48:01 instead of my finger Apr 16 05:48:04 Khertan_on_n810, not necessarily Apr 16 05:48:23 (i ve large finger) Apr 16 05:48:43 Khertan_on_n810, if two click switching would be fine, it doesn't need to be stylus Apr 16 05:48:47 How do you get the taskbar to move with the rotation stuff, anyway? Apr 16 05:49:08 same as in m$ window$ Apr 16 05:49:09 jeddy3> so it ll be less use Apr 16 05:49:44 can anybody help out with osso.Rpc.rpc_run on the system_bus in python? I get 'system_bus' is an invalid keyword argument for this function Apr 16 05:50:26 here's the doc I'm looking at: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/apis/3-x/python-maemo-3.x/pyosso_rpc.html Apr 16 05:51:47 hum ... a new release of pypackager is near ... (with packages upload to maemo repository) Apr 16 05:52:54 ok. now I found a bug in the backup tool from 50.2 Apr 16 05:53:01 window closebox is really too small ! Apr 16 05:53:03 grrr Apr 16 05:53:07 dunno if the backup tool for 51.3 is also affected... Apr 16 05:53:16 sxpert, they're exactly the same. Apr 16 05:53:31 maybe i'm missing something, but i don't _need_ taskbar information and application menu taking up valuable screen estate _all_ the time, IMHO that is desktop computer thinking in a device thats not desktop Apr 16 05:53:39 the thing proposes to backup the apps list so that it can get them again, but forgets to backup the sources.list file Apr 16 05:53:51 It does backup sources.list Apr 16 05:53:53 but the interface needs to be adapted to such change Apr 16 05:53:54 is there a date announced for n810 wimax ? Apr 16 05:53:58 Extras just has to be re-enabled. Apr 16 05:54:09 "Q2 2008", Khertan_on_n810. Apr 16 05:54:14 thx Apr 16 05:54:23 GeneralAntilles, well, the restore procedure doesn't re-enable the thing properly Apr 16 05:54:26 which is a pain Apr 16 05:54:37 do we know the wimax chip ? Apr 16 05:54:38 But it does backup and restore sources.list Apr 16 05:54:43 No, Khertan_on_n810. Apr 16 05:54:53 It just doesn't enable Extras. Apr 16 05:54:55 There's already a bug. Apr 16 05:55:16 ok Apr 16 05:55:21 So just re-enable Extras before you restore applications. Apr 16 05:55:50 is there a "update everything" button ? Apr 16 05:56:04 Diablo Apr 16 05:56:22 sxpert: apt-get upgrade ? Apr 16 05:56:49 KotCzarny, I was expecting something in the install manager... Apr 16 05:57:02 KotCzarny, apt-get please-put-me-into-an-infinite-reboot? Apr 16 05:57:03 'coz clicking on every app is... Apr 16 05:57:04 never seen suck Apr 16 05:57:07 such Apr 16 05:57:08 :) Apr 16 05:57:12 Diablo, sxpert. Apr 16 05:57:18 It'll have an Update All Apr 16 05:57:19 s/reboot/reboot-loop/ Apr 16 05:57:20 Navi meant: KotCzarny, apt-get please-put-me-into-an-infinite-reboot-loop? Apr 16 05:57:21 navi: apt-get your-sources-suck-then Apr 16 05:57:43 KotCzarny, apt-get it-happens-very-often-to-many-people Apr 16 05:57:54 Having the rtcomm beta and the SDK repo active when you apt-get upgrade will put you in a reboot loop. Apr 16 05:57:55 navi apt-get install brain Apr 16 05:58:05 KotCzarny, no such device Apr 16 05:58:10 :) Apr 16 05:58:10 Oh, now we're mud slinging? Apr 16 05:58:22 navi nope, i wasn't talking about you Apr 16 05:58:35 unless you were the one of those people Apr 16 05:58:40 apt-cache search brain Apr 16 05:58:45 not found Apr 16 05:58:46 Ha Apr 16 06:00:00 Any way to add alt to the shortcut bar in xterm? Apr 16 06:00:08 nope Apr 16 06:00:17 hey, any of you guys use (py)GTK ? I got a problem where I can clear a textView... frustrating... Apr 16 06:00:17 not without hacking source Apr 16 06:00:25 use xvkbd or xkbd Apr 16 06:00:44 (with special layout of course) Apr 16 06:01:02 No thanks Apr 16 06:01:03 erm, CAN'T clear a textView Apr 16 06:01:46 hum i want to make an home applet in python ... but i ven t idea ... Apr 16 06:02:25 what applet would u wish to have ? Apr 16 06:02:40 without heavy memory footprint Apr 16 06:02:41 :) Apr 16 06:03:16 este_> TextView.get_buffer().set_text('') Apr 16 06:04:12 kotCzarny > python applet haven t heavy memory footprint Apr 16 06:04:29 hmm Apr 16 06:04:32 yea... except.... hmmm.... I know i tried that.... hmmmmm Apr 16 06:05:23 wtf.... man... do I feel stupid Apr 16 06:05:37 i Know i tied that though.... oh well, Apr 16 06:05:51 my cconnection will drop train enter u,derground Apr 16 06:06:30 bye Apr 16 06:06:57 anybody have any experience with dbus/osso in python on the n810? Apr 16 06:10:31 Question about the n800. Is it possible to add new cities to the clock's location list? Apr 16 06:23:07 X-Fade: Tried committing stuff to the repository last night. Still no luck. SSH refuses connection :( Apr 16 07:04:27 how to play ogg file from command line on N810 Apr 16 07:05:51 mplayer file.name Apr 16 07:07:04 do pretty much all bluetooth headsets work with the n800? Apr 16 07:07:32 why was the FM radio removed in the N810? Apr 16 07:07:54 who knows, why was the 2x sd changed to 1x mini sd ? Apr 16 07:07:58 it wasnt really an open feature in the n800 either Apr 16 07:08:39 probably one of the ways to reduce size of the device Apr 16 07:09:21 * g0ldfinGa hopes to get a GrandCentral account Apr 16 07:09:25 i see Apr 16 07:09:28 i want to play ogg file using gst-launch Apr 16 07:09:49 install ogg decode plugin then Apr 16 07:09:52 (probably) Apr 16 07:13:26 soman: gst-launch ! gnomevfssrc ! oggdemux ! ivorbisdec ! pcmdspsink Apr 16 07:13:29 soman: something like that Apr 16 07:15:44 Because fm radios take up space, mbuf. Apr 16 07:15:46 Nokia-N810-50-2:~# gst-launch-0.10 gnomevfssrc location=test.ogg ! oggdemux ! ivorbisdec ! audioconvert ! dsppcmsink Apr 16 07:15:46 Setting pipeline to PAUSED ... Apr 16 07:15:46 Pipeline is PREROLLING ... Apr 16 07:15:46 ERROR: from element /pipeline0/oggdemux0: Internal data stream error. Apr 16 07:15:46 Additional debug info: Apr 16 07:15:48 gstoggdemux.c(3085): gst_ogg_demux_loop (): /pipeline0/oggdemux0: Apr 16 07:15:50 stream stopped, reason not-linked Apr 16 07:15:54 ERROR: pipeline doesn't want to preroll. Apr 16 07:15:56 Setting pipeline to NULL ... Apr 16 07:15:58 FREEING pipeline ... Apr 16 07:16:00 it gives me this error Apr 16 07:16:07 soman: pastebin.com Apr 16 07:17:37 kulve : what could be the problem Apr 16 07:17:54 what version you have of the libogg and libivorbisdec? Apr 16 07:18:38 i have removed all the packages which were in conflict, and i install ogg-support from maemo Apr 16 07:19:34 the version is 1.1.3-2 Apr 16 07:20:32 even though i installed ogg-support i am facing this problem Apr 16 07:21:07 what's the version of the vorbis decoder? Apr 16 07:22:09 gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-ivorbis 0.10.5-4.tk1 and libvorbisidec1 1.2.0-mogg1 Apr 16 07:22:27 I have 1.2.0-1.svn20071106.tk1 and he pipeline you said works for me Apr 16 07:22:48 soman: that's the gst plugin, not the vorbis decoder library Apr 16 07:23:02 ah, sorry, I misread that.. Apr 16 07:23:26 so your libvorbisidec1 is still from mogg project Apr 16 07:23:45 ofcourse, it came with the ogg-support Apr 16 07:24:07 not "with". It came because it has higher version bumero Apr 16 07:24:09 number Apr 16 07:24:20 ok Apr 16 07:24:41 then how to upgrade that Apr 16 07:25:06 because mogg project decided to put their packages to extras, there's now conflict between ogg-support and mogg :( Apr 16 07:25:36 Maybe I'll just upgrade my version numbers to be higher than what the mogg provides.. Apr 16 07:25:52 but it's just stupid to do things like this.. Apr 16 07:26:40 then how can i play ogg files on N810 Apr 16 07:27:11 kulve: have you talked to them? Apr 16 07:27:48 Anyone know how to add locations to the clock/calendar settings on the n800? Apr 16 07:28:06 KotCzarny: not lately Apr 16 07:31:24 kulve, what changes i have to do inorder to play ogg file Apr 16 07:31:46 apt-get remove libvorbisidec1 Apr 16 07:31:56 apt-get install libvorbisidec1=1.2.0-1.svn20071106.tk1 Apr 16 07:31:58 try that Apr 16 07:32:24 s/=/-/ Apr 16 07:32:26 :) Apr 16 07:32:55 Curs0r: there's one text file somewhere there.. i can check. Apr 16 07:32:55 ? Apr 16 07:33:01 is there an example for a debian maemo source package, that has source code spread across multiple directories; would like to see the Makefile.am, and rules files for the same Apr 16 07:33:09 do you actually have '=' in a package name? Apr 16 07:33:15 KotCzarny: no Apr 16 07:33:27 KotCzarny: that = specifies the version number of the package to install Apr 16 07:33:40 i didn't know that Apr 16 07:33:49 :) Apr 16 07:34:18 Curs0r: /usr/share/osso-clock/wdb-parsed.txt Apr 16 07:34:35 jani, thanks, the closest location I get here is like 400 miles away in another state, the second closest is in another country Apr 16 07:34:44 anyone here use grand central? Apr 16 07:35:36 Curs0r: *g* Apr 16 07:36:39 A little something to put in my review; Arizona does not exist according to the n800 lol Apr 16 07:36:46 kulve, I think i have to install bad plugin once again... coz it now it says "no element vorbisdec" Apr 16 07:37:40 do i require bad plugin for that Apr 16 07:38:10 you Apr 16 07:38:12 yup Apr 16 07:38:39 the libvorbis is the actual decoder and the gst bad is provides the gstreamer plugin for the libvorbis Apr 16 07:39:49 kulve, still it gives the same error Apr 16 07:40:52 kulve, i gave gst-launch-0.10 gnomevfssrc location=test.ogg ! oggdemux ! ivorbisdec ! audioconvert ! dsppcmsink Apr 16 07:41:01 is that a correct command Apr 16 07:41:05 yes Apr 16 07:41:21 but,,, i face the same problem Apr 16 07:41:56 dpkg -l |grep vorbis Apr 16 07:41:57 ii gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-ivorbis 0.10.5-4.tk1 GStreamer plugin for Tremor Apr 16 07:42:00 ii libvorbisidec1 1.2.0-1.svn20071106.tk1 Ogg Bitstream Library Apr 16 07:42:03 and you have those? Apr 16 07:42:35 yes, i have the same Apr 16 07:43:04 and "gst-inspect-0.10 ivorbisdec" gives you the error about missing element? Apr 16 07:45:03 i did gst-inspect . please find it http://pastebin.com/d790e4c9f Apr 16 07:45:27 ok, so it does find the element Apr 16 07:45:37 are you sure you didn't mistype it before..? Apr 16 07:46:03 on your error above you said "vorbisdec" and not "ivorbisdec".. Apr 16 07:48:36 if i say vorbisdec, it gives me "no element vorbisdec", but if i use ivorbisdec it gives me the error.. http://pastebin.com/d76fb1b71 Apr 16 07:49:50 that works for me. Sorry, cant' really help more and now I have to leave Apr 16 07:49:51 bbl Apr 16 07:50:14 ok.. anyway thanks for ur support Apr 16 07:51:14 This is a friendly room. I like it here. Apr 16 07:51:21 lol Apr 16 07:51:49 I get so tired of linux distro channels and the constant wankerism. Apr 16 07:52:02 curs0r: that's because IT is so nice device :) Apr 16 08:04:11 Hi ! Apr 16 08:07:08 heh, wankerism Apr 16 08:07:15 * ralann writes that down Apr 16 08:26:24 lol.. Apr 16 08:26:33 anyone has fanoush's email address? Apr 16 08:27:59 Try dufkaf@seznam.cz Apr 16 08:28:10 Now I feel guilty for clicking the donate button... Apr 16 08:28:39 Although if I ever get me a card, I wouldn't hesitate in clicking it. Apr 16 08:32:53 la lalala lala la la Apr 16 08:33:03 asjlkasdkolsad Apr 16 08:33:38 command not found. Apr 16 08:38:27 hmm, replacing the current interface with the canola interface?! Apr 16 08:39:08 geurk Apr 16 08:39:17 :P Apr 16 09:07:47 Is there a replacement for dh_icons? A package I'm building needs it. Apr 16 09:08:51 Forget it, I extracted from debian sid, Apr 16 09:09:04 http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/DSC00203.jpg Apr 16 09:09:09 i might very possibly be bored Apr 16 09:09:32 hehe, is that a school? Apr 16 09:10:50 Yes Apr 16 09:11:10 Aww, if I had my N800 out, I'd get confiscated :( Apr 16 09:15:36 This is a university college, we dont even have to show up Apr 16 09:15:50 And we can use lappys etc Apr 16 09:15:58 And misuse Apr 16 09:16:11 In many cases i use my n800 for school stuff, just this subject is boring Apr 16 09:16:47 Hehe, I hate maths. Apr 16 09:16:59 math is fun! Apr 16 09:17:03 Thankfully, the teacher is dopey so I use my phone in class :P Apr 16 09:17:07 Never! :P Apr 16 09:18:09 This is statistics Apr 16 09:18:15 math is its own subject Apr 16 09:28:46 kulve: Thanks for ur support.... i m able to play ogg file now.... im happy... thanks Apr 16 09:29:03 soman: great Apr 16 09:29:08 thanks.. Apr 16 09:29:12 soman: did you find out the reason? Apr 16 09:29:20 yup... Apr 16 09:29:48 first problem is .. i didnt had the libvorbisidec1 1.2.0-1.svn20071106.tk1 Apr 16 09:30:07 and secondly the ogg file which i have is corrupted one. Apr 16 09:30:26 now i tested with different one.. and its playing. Apr 16 09:30:32 thanks for ur help Apr 16 09:30:57 would like to be in touch with you kulve, Apr 16 09:38:32 someone that has never install homeip can try to install it from extras-devel repository ... Apr 16 09:46:57 Cptn-N800: funny pic. What course is that? Apr 16 09:49:18 soman: I'm here about always. I'm reading the maemo developers list too Apr 16 09:50:04 Pupnik: bachelor in economics and administration Apr 16 09:50:23 First year Apr 16 09:50:39 Statistics Apr 16 09:54:43 anyone ever use xgngeo emu? Apr 16 10:45:09 it's well hidden Apr 16 10:45:36 oops stuck in scrollback Apr 16 10:48:11 any theme creators/users about? Apr 16 10:48:37 guys, it's any chance to switch off dhclient on that applet for searching wireless network? Apr 16 10:48:47 what's thre best one for transparent desktop, though I'd like to just about be able to see the side & top bars Apr 16 10:49:02 I like nuvoClear by Underscore Apr 16 10:49:10 termsig: send it your nick Apr 16 10:49:38 * lardman looks at nuvoClear Apr 16 10:50:08 lardman: ? Apr 16 10:50:21 :) I meant kill it Apr 16 10:50:45 ...term sig Apr 16 10:50:55 haha yeah sig term! Apr 16 10:51:08 I liked NiceLite2 until nuvoClear came out Apr 16 10:51:24 nuvoclear seems more finished Apr 16 10:51:27 ok, 2 votes in favour Apr 16 10:51:58 qwerty121 says nuvoClear too. Does that make a 3rd vote :P Apr 16 10:52:05 yay, N810 unused for a week still has full battery, well done Nokia :) Apr 16 10:52:10 Echo! :P Apr 16 10:52:22 milhouse got 12 days out of his idle test. Apr 16 10:52:49 its far better than the N800, which is nice Apr 16 10:52:54 Eek, my N800 is really bad. Apr 16 10:53:13 It's the SD cards. Apr 16 10:53:21 Some don't idle like they should. Apr 16 10:53:34 But I use 48MHz MMC speed, wifi power saving off and cpu full speed with the dynamic speed changer disabled. Apr 16 10:53:35 hw issue on n800 or for all ITs? Apr 16 10:53:51 It's a firmware, problem, I think. Apr 16 10:53:56 Tama^2 has investigated it more. Apr 16 10:54:06 It doesn't go into low power mode for some reason. Apr 16 10:54:17 Turning off wifi powersaving is a bad plan. Apr 16 10:54:21 Unless you have a really shitty router. Apr 16 10:54:28 ~lart microb for appearing to have finished loading a page (no progress bar) but responding to taps 5s later Apr 16 10:54:28 * infobot pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps microb for appearing to have finished loading a page (no progress bar) but responding to taps 5s later Apr 16 10:54:43 GeneralAntilles, that's me :P Apr 16 10:54:50 Why the hell would you disable cpu freq, anyway? Apr 16 10:55:31 With 48Mhz kernel, the cpu freq stops it from doing the full 48Mhz. Apr 16 10:55:52 Most cards wont get a lot of benefit from 48MHz, anyway. :\ Apr 16 10:56:12 True, my card seems to hate it. I keep on getting I/O errors. Apr 16 10:56:21 With really large files when unpacking. Apr 16 10:56:30 Or downloading large files come to think of it. Apr 16 10:56:50 GeneralAntilles: I saw your post on ITT about "no viruses"; I was tempted to ask if that was a philosophical statement ;D Apr 16 10:57:01 Ha Apr 16 10:57:15 Then why are you using it, qwerty12? <_< Apr 16 10:57:21 Funny thing is that it works fine when I put it into removable slot. But I had the mmc debug patch applied to my kernel and removable is forced at ~25Mhz for me. Apr 16 10:57:30 Because I don't know which part to patch back >.< Apr 16 10:58:23 yes, nuvoclear2 looks pretty good, cheers chaps Apr 16 10:59:52 Any experts/developers around? Do me a favour please: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=170450 . I can't for the life of me figure out what an munmap is. Apr 16 11:00:51 ah i saw something like that Apr 16 11:01:10 http://swoolley.org/man.cgi/2/mmap Apr 16 11:01:14 for example Apr 16 11:01:54 Ah thanks. I'm unsure as to why it works fine in ARMEL target but not on the ARM device itself :( Apr 16 11:02:14 it's trying to map quite a bit of memory there Apr 16 11:02:51 it wants to make a 'shared writable mmap' Apr 16 11:02:55 Hmm :(. I'll take a better look at the code later. Thanks, I gtg. Bye and take care all. Apr 16 11:03:47 pupnik: do you know what it's wanting to share in there? Apr 16 11:04:17 i'd first suggest cutting down on repositories Apr 16 11:04:27 and see if it's a problem with the size requested Apr 16 11:04:35 he's gone Apr 16 11:05:33 that's lame Apr 16 11:05:44 now i googled and have relevant answers Apr 16 11:05:46 https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/apt/+bug/24626 Apr 16 11:06:08 i'll post them to itt Apr 16 11:07:21 googling your error message = rocket science apparently Apr 16 11:09:20 maybe he was running on the device and not waiting to switch to browser because his irc client might have been bgkilled ? =)) Apr 16 11:14:05 btw, anyone know how shutdown stuff is handled in the devices ? obviously there's shutdown_ind message coming but there might be something else too ? Sigkill perhaps after graceperiod? just trying to think how to do state saving properly so that stuff wont go b0rk. Apr 16 11:14:38 Is this for oom conditions? Apr 16 11:15:18 no, normal shutdown from shutdown menu. Apr 16 11:17:14 ah, dunno then, I was just going to say I thought I'd seen something about oom on maemo.org in the docs Apr 16 11:17:45 those i have no problem with. Apr 16 11:19:59 Haha, it seems that way, doesn't it, pupnik? Apr 16 11:23:16 jani: from observed behaviour, a message is sent to which the app should react and close. It appears that if this reaction doesn't occur, the desktop asks if you want to kill the app. Apr 16 11:27:33 jani: you're working from this presumably?: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial.html#System-exit-message Apr 16 11:32:37 X-Fade_ are u away ? Apr 16 11:33:12 X-Fade_ you ve got a mail (aol horrible voice) ! Apr 16 11:42:02 how do I wget a mms? Apr 16 11:42:36 use mimms Apr 16 11:42:36 replace the mms:// with http:// and give it a try? Apr 16 11:43:04 ah 'wgetpro' Apr 16 11:43:12 mimms (1) - mms (e.g. mms://) stream downloader Apr 16 11:43:19 hmm thx Apr 16 11:43:27 hi ssvb! Apr 16 11:43:58 thanks wnd - mimms is in debian Apr 16 11:44:19 I know it is :-) Apr 16 11:45:29 woo. woooo Apr 16 11:46:16 thank you wnd :) maybe something to add to tablet Apr 16 11:48:07 7Lol Apr 16 11:48:28 is wgetpro a registered copy of wget that has more features such as automatic mirror scanning? Apr 16 11:48:50 * Navi kids Apr 16 11:49:22 yes, it's part of the gnu genuine advantage program :-) Apr 16 11:49:28 * pupnik is happy to see that the state run tv is now downloadable Apr 16 11:49:29 :D Apr 16 11:50:48 * Navi is happy that all of the tools that had cost money on Windows are free on Linux Apr 16 11:53:35 Khertan: I'll look into it. Apr 16 12:08:44 pupnik: hi Apr 16 12:14:44 * lcuk munches on dinner and peers in Apr 16 12:15:04 * johnx lurks Apr 16 12:15:31 * lcuk lobs a piece of tomato @ johnx Apr 16 12:16:04 * johnx looks around...I don't think the tomato made it all the way here Apr 16 12:16:17 iTomato Apr 16 12:16:28 throw harder, you have some distance to cover :P Apr 16 12:17:26 getting on topic: does anyone know anything major about the cpu govenor? Apr 16 12:18:45 I *think* it's pretty much unchanged (in behavior, not low-level implementation) from cpufreq found on pretty much any linux box Apr 16 12:19:06 basically there are several different governors it can use, which take different parameters Apr 16 12:19:16 i think i umm broke the govenor... my program was running as normal user in "slow" mode it was pulling about 10fps with the cpu on lowest setting. i was just playing around drawing circles for a while. when i stopped i think i must have wound it up because it was left in 400mhz mode and ran at fullspeed forever. maybe i need to tell people to wind it up Apr 16 12:19:27 this is with ondemand at the default 80% Apr 16 12:19:41 Haha Apr 16 12:19:46 lcuk's wind-up ebook reader. <_< Apr 16 12:19:51 broke it? Apr 16 12:19:53 normally the gov will speed it up to full if i draw, but then a few seconds later it will drop back down Apr 16 12:20:05 is it still up? Apr 16 12:20:09 yer GeneralAntilles thats what i was thinking Apr 16 12:20:10 * Navi winds it up Apr 16 12:20:18 im not at home so i cant tell - ill check tonight Apr 16 12:20:32 maybe there is a threshold for whether it should stay in "fast mode" for longer Apr 16 12:20:33 but i thought it worked entirely on a few seconds worth of data, but it seemed to get stuck Apr 16 12:21:14 i hope there is because that is a workaround - i only did it cos i was playing mario & sonic on my sons DS a few minutes before and did same thing on mine Apr 16 12:21:54 ill do prop[er testing, but just thought someone might know whether there was a speedup lock mechanism Apr 16 12:22:21 it certainly persisted beyond running the program Apr 16 12:22:32 hmm Apr 16 12:22:49 cos i came out and back in again a few times Apr 16 12:23:46 its not important. now more serious matters, linuxtag - ive got a couple of ideas for little toys which may work Apr 16 12:24:56 im gonna create this thumbprint identification/login program. it will need to run on startup and just lock out the system until my thumb has been pressed on it Apr 16 12:25:11 n00bs won't pass the test because htey will be too gentle and wiffly ;) Apr 16 12:25:40 Ha Apr 16 12:25:45 That'll fail hard. :P Apr 16 12:26:37 no it wont (especially if i know what my program is looking for pressure pattern wise) ;) Apr 16 12:27:00 and it will look good having the scanner program actually scanning down where my thumb is and displaying my picture to let me in ;0 Apr 16 12:27:02 aaah, the "secret door knock" method? Apr 16 12:27:26 add hollywoody sound effects too! Apr 16 12:27:31 yes, but it will look all modern and biometricy Apr 16 12:27:43 YER mgedmin Apr 16 12:28:25 (i *might* even tie it in with bluetooth proximity ;) Apr 16 12:28:53 so no matter what they do if i walk away its locked out from them Apr 16 12:30:07 part two, how do i develop apps while i am at linuxtag - i was gonna get a laptop but funds have tightened up. is it simple and easy and relatively quick to install gcc and all required libraries? Apr 16 12:30:11 on the device itself Apr 16 12:31:17 I don't think it's any of the three, but I may be wrong Apr 16 12:31:36 im not thinking of rebuilding the kernel Apr 16 12:32:00 I know. I'm assuming you want to compile C programs linked against gtk/hildon? Apr 16 12:32:24 yes to the c programs, but its x + xv mainly Apr 16 12:32:36 might be easier Apr 16 12:33:06 if I were doing it, the first thing I'd do is boot to sd for this project Apr 16 12:33:09 where would i get gcc from, anyone know? Apr 16 12:33:21 ahhhh. Apr 16 12:33:39 I don't think there's any way you'll fit the dev tools and the headers you need in internal flash Apr 16 12:33:41 sd because rewriting to bits of the internal card would be bad m'kay i gather? Apr 16 12:33:46 ahhhh Apr 16 12:33:55 Space issues. :P Apr 16 12:34:04 aaaand, boot to sd because you will *break something badly* when you try this Apr 16 12:34:06 ok, i can get a new card Apr 16 12:34:08 The internal flash is more durable than any SD card. Apr 16 12:34:33 why would i break something - a compiler is just that and it has an include folder and a lib folder doesnt it? Apr 16 12:34:54 largely version conflicts as you try to install header packages Apr 16 12:35:05 also, maemo is fragile Apr 16 12:35:29 can i run gcc in a vmware_maemo session ;) Apr 16 12:35:47 hmm? Apr 16 12:36:39 (that was a joke, vmware isnt avail is it Apr 16 12:36:45 nope Apr 16 12:37:02 qemu is in testing I believe for arm *hosts* Apr 16 12:37:31 actually, with the 4.0.1 sdk release the version mismatch might be less of a problem Apr 16 12:37:56 i am quite surprised though that installing dev files would break the actual system. in every other dev environment ive played with the files used for the compiler arent done as loaded runtime os modules Apr 16 12:38:38 well of course they're not, but previously various downgrading of installed packages was required to make everything happy Apr 16 12:38:42 i will take a backup tonight and see how far i get Apr 16 12:39:12 it's not the .h files lying around that will get you in trouble, it's what you do to get foo-dev.deb to install that breaks things Apr 16 12:41:05 thats a point, but thats a limitation of the packaging system. if i (for now) steer clear of installing *ANY* real dev libraries and just see if standard core c works then i can build from there Apr 16 12:41:35 i basically already have a full library myself that i can copy the headers and .o manually, so could continue developing using that without installing extras Apr 16 12:41:54 its only a problem them if i do need to extend that library and rebuild it Apr 16 12:44:08 hmm :) ok thanks johnx, you have given me enough to know i can at least give it a try Apr 16 12:44:31 sure. as always, I look forward to hearing how it works out. :D Apr 16 12:44:58 so do i, even if the news is "its crap" at least then we will know Apr 16 12:46:11 * lcuk goes and finds a ((someone confirm this is right:) Mini SDHC card with highest class rating i can find? Apr 16 12:47:18 mini-sdhc with a high class rating Apr 16 12:47:47 excellent thx - cyas later Apr 16 12:47:49 Class 6 is the highest you'll find. Apr 16 12:47:58 'later lcuk Apr 16 12:48:14 That security thread on ITT cracks me up. Apr 16 12:48:47 I gave up on reading it Apr 16 12:48:53 it almost sucked me in, too Apr 16 12:48:57 meanwhile has a way with logical fallacies. Apr 16 12:49:38 You wonder where some of these people come from. <_< Apr 16 12:50:21 some people are like that...they won't let their opinion be altered, no matter what evidence is presented to them Apr 16 12:51:35 I used to drive myself crazy presenting bulletproof arguments, but I don't have that kind of time these days...heh Apr 16 12:51:49 Hehe Apr 16 12:51:55 Reminds me of that xkcd. . . . Apr 16 12:52:24 http://xkcd.com/386/ Apr 16 12:52:39 heh Apr 16 12:52:52 as soon as you mentioned xkcd I thought of that one Apr 16 12:56:53 hi everyone.... Apr 16 12:56:59 hi Apr 16 12:58:47 Hi John :) Apr 16 13:01:31 To all those of you who are old enough to remember cassette-players *sigh*, i just finished a retro player in Flash: take a look and downlad the player at http://www.mojocafe.net/tape.swf ... you will need to press the PLAY tape :) ..... Apr 16 13:02:01 ahahaha Apr 16 13:02:03 that's awesome Apr 16 13:02:17 that is totally not user-friendly *lol* Apr 16 13:02:34 * johnx is old enough to remember listening to his walkman on car trips with his parents Apr 16 13:02:39 ^ Apr 16 13:02:43 did you had the yellow sony one? Apr 16 13:02:47 don't need to be that old Apr 16 13:02:54 nah, I had some aiwa rip-off Apr 16 13:02:56 my parents could not afford it but that was a dream! Apr 16 13:03:13 cassette walkmans were pretty popular up untill cheap mp3 players Apr 16 13:03:32 knowing that this may state me as a real geek, i just found my newewst pr0n page: http://www.tapedeck.org Apr 16 13:03:36 and I miss my boombox Apr 16 13:03:46 boomboxes rule Apr 16 13:04:12 I haven't found anything else that sounds quite as good without stepping up to a full home stereo system Apr 16 13:05:43 some guys have selfmade boomboxes for parties at the univ here Apr 16 13:05:45 the tapedeck page is just soooo SEXY. reminds me of my dad buying the maxell tapes for 10 German Marks per unit. That was a fortune at that time but my dad loved them soooo much. Apr 16 13:07:52 glass: you know that poster where you see that boy with a boombox and a spraycan in its hands? Apr 16 13:14:33 nope Apr 16 13:37:12 last umf festival, there was onne chick with boombox made from "see thru" plastica, 2 big speakers, homemade amp and and nokia phone + tons of leds =) Apr 16 13:39:45 cyberholic: isn't the tape going in the wrong direction to be playing forward? Apr 16 13:53:18 Khertan: Ping? Apr 16 13:54:05 <||cw> liquid217: no that's the right way Apr 16 13:54:14 <||cw> cool flash though Apr 16 14:10:03 X-Fade_ i'm here Apr 16 14:10:17 Khertan: check your mail. Apr 16 14:10:28 check your's now :) Apr 16 14:10:36 and ... thanks ! Apr 16 14:11:03 i ll correct this in a few times today. Apr 16 14:11:27 now i understand why i ve never been able to make my maemo repository working ... Apr 16 14:11:51 as i ve never seen error in the log Apr 16 14:15:09 Yeah, I guess that creating your own debian package creator is not that easy ;) Apr 16 14:16:05 Morning, all Apr 16 14:16:15 Khertan: try do lintian checks, that will help you out. Apr 16 14:16:44 Hi Jaffa. Apr 16 14:18:03 X-Fade_ > lintian checks ? what is it ? Apr 16 14:18:28 Khertan: http://lintian.debian.org/ Apr 16 14:18:47 X-Fade_ > Yeah, I guess that creating your own debian package creator is not that easy ;) specially when many things are broken due to busybox ... tar compression ... ar compression ... :) Apr 16 14:19:17 yay, the filesystem on my n810's internal flash is BROKEN AGAIN Apr 16 14:20:10 unless some program decided to create files on it named "ëz.ïz" and suchlike Apr 16 14:20:18 dated from 1904 Apr 16 14:20:40 mgedmin: Ouch. Apr 16 14:21:24 well, since it isn't the first time, I don't trust it AT ALL ANY MORE Apr 16 14:21:28 so I don't keep any data in it Apr 16 14:21:33 still, *ouch* is about right Apr 16 14:22:01 Did you ever get it formatted correctly? Apr 16 14:22:19 many times, assuming that n810's File Managers "format memory card" does its job correctly Apr 16 14:22:26 which it seems to do Apr 16 14:23:50 maybe a corrupted device ? Apr 16 14:24:15 that's what I assume Apr 16 14:24:21 hardware problem Apr 16 14:24:28 otherwise everybody would scream all the time Apr 16 14:25:00 mgedmin: Did you check that the partition was the right size? Apr 16 14:25:07 X-Fade_: yes Apr 16 14:25:19 and then, to be doubly sure, I repartitioned it with cfdisk to use just 1 gig out of 2 Apr 16 14:25:53 with the default partition size, I can corrupt the fs reliably by doing dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/bigfile Apr 16 14:26:01 when it runs out of disk space, I get a vfat error in dmesg Apr 16 14:26:09 mgedmin: Try to enable logging? And see if there are errors in the log? Apr 16 14:26:11 and the partition table also gets cleared Apr 16 14:26:25 when I partitioned it to just 1 gig, I did not get any errors from the dd test Apr 16 14:26:33 Kernel errors that is.. Apr 16 14:26:54 but a week of use, a strange reboot today (32_wd -- i.e. cpu-too-busy-watchdog), and I see these corrupted filenames Apr 16 14:27:01 well, a couple of weeks of use Apr 16 14:27:23 where use = swap file + whatever the /media/mmc2/tmp gets used for (app installer?) + mytube Apr 16 14:27:25 mgedmin: Heavy writing to flash causes a lot of cpu usage.. Apr 16 14:27:34 I wasn't writing anything today Apr 16 14:27:42 swap? Apr 16 14:28:06 the nokia was idle on my desk, and then I picked it up and noticed it had rebooted an hour ago Apr 16 14:28:18 (i've disabled sound effects so I didn't hear it) Apr 16 14:28:24 mgedmin: Browser open or app installer? Apr 16 14:28:32 no, just fbreader + xterm Apr 16 14:28:36 hm, xterm Apr 16 14:28:49 Well xterm causes the device not to go to sleep too.. Apr 16 14:28:50 could be I did the ctrl+d trick and forgot that it doesn't actually close the window, just burns 100% cpu Apr 16 14:28:52 So perhaps.. Apr 16 14:29:07 but the battery is still at 100%, so maybe not Apr 16 14:29:20 and the 100% cpu xterm bug doesn't make the device non-responsive, so watchdog shouldn't complain Apr 16 14:29:25 hm Apr 16 14:29:42 what is the PKG_CHECK_MODULES name for hildon-1? Apr 16 14:30:37 I use `pkg-config gtk+-2.0 hildon-1 --cflags --libs`; but, need to translate the same to PKG_CHECK_MODULES in configure.ac Apr 16 14:31:29 which is better -- mogg or ogg-support? Apr 16 14:32:55 mgedmin, ogg-support works with canola too with an addon but is said to have problems with VOIP. but you can delete speex codec afair Apr 16 14:33:27 and the canola support will get better soon.. Apr 16 14:33:53 but currently it seems that mogg project broke the ogg-support :/ Apr 16 14:34:52 yay, install both get neither Apr 16 14:34:55 don't have canole Apr 16 14:34:59 don't want canola Apr 16 14:35:05 never mind, found it, hildon-1 Apr 16 14:35:07 want to listen to oggs and mp3es with the default media player Apr 16 14:35:14 am I out of luck? Apr 16 14:35:15 Both will do fine then. Apr 16 14:35:19 great Apr 16 14:35:23 I mean either one. Apr 16 14:35:24 (or not) Apr 16 14:35:34 why doesn't i see my gtalk buddies online at times on meamo ? Apr 16 14:36:00 default gtalkt client , forgot its project name Apr 16 14:36:31 telepathy Apr 16 14:37:30 telepathy is the framework i guess Apr 16 14:39:25 Just out of question, does anyone have the acmonitor-0.1.tar.gz ? I'd be interested in looking at it, the original site just times me out. Apr 16 14:40:38 * mgedmin keeps forgetting if OS2008 is bora or chinook Apr 16 14:41:06 mgedmin: chinook ;) Apr 16 14:41:11 right Apr 16 14:41:27 * lardman was looking for http://maemo.org/community/wiki/codenames/ Apr 16 14:41:31 let's hope they continue to be in alphabetical order (bora, chinook, ...) Apr 16 14:41:38 what's a wind name starting with d? Apr 16 14:41:43 diablo :P Apr 16 14:41:47 mgedmin: Diablo is also 2008 ;) Apr 16 14:41:48 anyone tried rtcomm ? does it support gtalk-voice ? Apr 16 14:41:57 whee, but diablo isn't out yet, right? Apr 16 14:42:02 the previous ones weren't though... Mistral, Scirocco, Gregale Apr 16 14:42:05 Nope. Apr 16 14:42:08 mgedmin, are you living under a rock? :P Apr 16 14:42:14 yes, why? Apr 16 14:42:23 Juuust wunderin' Apr 16 14:42:29 :) Apr 16 14:42:35 in fact, there are 81 unread rocks waiting in my google reader Apr 16 14:42:45 and I-don't-know-how-many from mailing lists Apr 16 14:42:51 too warm in my office, a nice cool rock sounds good... Apr 16 14:43:25 bloody "this software is not from nokia" confirmation dialogs Apr 16 14:43:50 installing apps is all wait-press-ok-wait-press-ok-wait-press-ok-wait-press-ok-wait-press-ok Apr 16 14:44:00 too bloody interactive Apr 16 14:44:08 * mgedmin is hungry Apr 16 14:44:15 * mgedmin wants to walk to a cafe while listening to music Apr 16 14:44:23 That's an idea actually, patching that message out... Apr 16 14:44:27 * mgedmin wants to listen to a specific song, which happens to be a .ogg file Apr 16 14:44:40 * mgedmin therefore in a hurry and needs to deal with app installer Apr 16 14:46:02 maemo software management needs to be shaped up, each reflash takes few hours just to install packages one by one Apr 16 14:46:16 Not relevant anymore. Apr 16 14:46:19 Diablo has SSU. Apr 16 14:46:35 SSU ? Apr 16 14:46:44 Seamless Software Update Apr 16 14:46:50 No more reflashes after Diablo. Apr 16 14:46:54 Unless you hose your system. Apr 16 14:46:55 Woohoo! Apr 16 14:47:00 hmm Apr 16 14:47:01 unless it craps up ;) Apr 16 14:47:22 wheen is a relase expected ? Apr 16 14:47:28 homepage pls? Apr 16 14:47:47 ogg-support works not Apr 16 14:48:03 "Q2 2008" Apr 16 14:48:04 KevinVerma: Homepage for what? Diablo release is 2Q08 Apr 16 14:48:19 specifically, ogg-support doesn't let me click on a .ogg file in file manager Apr 16 14:48:39 I filed a bug report about that.. Apr 16 14:48:41 otoh my oggs were metalayer-crawled Apr 16 14:48:44 against File manager Apr 16 14:48:49 which I didn't expect Apr 16 14:48:57 seeing as how I copied them over through sshfs Apr 16 14:49:05 yey, oggs play! Apr 16 14:49:06 * mgedmin happy Apr 16 14:49:10 * mgedmin out for lunch Apr 16 14:50:21 i don't think nokia is still in much favour of ogg support, do i figure correct ? Apr 16 14:51:14 I haven't got any official comments from them. And no real comments to the bug reports Apr 16 14:51:20 They won't do anything about it Apr 16 14:51:47 KevinVerma: are you interested? Apr 16 14:52:28 sure i will like to have full ogg support inbox of itos based on maemo Apr 16 14:52:54 hmm, it don't think it will ever work out of the box without installing something Apr 16 14:53:05 even like to see if nokia can work off prop. drivers of n8x0 Apr 16 14:53:05 ssvb: any chance for some small demo that shows a working framesync? i'd like to update a pixel doubled sdl buffer at 50-60fps without tearing Apr 16 14:54:16 window is only approx 256x224 resolution Apr 16 14:59:12 X_Fade_:I want to commit to repository ,please send me an invitation to opendeep@garage.maemo.org Apr 16 14:59:51 opendeep: For the 3rd time orso. You have already been invited. Apr 16 15:00:58 lol :) Apr 16 15:01:25 i'm not alone ... :) Apr 16 15:01:43 Well, he doesn't respond to emails ;) Apr 16 15:14:38 Does anyone here have a2dp working on Chinook? Apr 16 15:15:26 I don't, unless you count the only way - the one that takes high cpu usage. Apr 16 15:15:29 not that there's any reason to think it won't work, I'm just wondering about the CPU useage Apr 16 15:15:46 yeah, that's the one; my understanding was that the code had been improved Apr 16 15:16:41 Well, the guys at INdT have said they have worked with the Bluez team and released a version that is ~70% optimised. I wonder if we will ever see it. Apr 16 15:17:02 It's on the roadmap. Apr 16 15:17:10 So the answer is presumably, "Yes, once it's ready" Apr 16 15:17:14 has it been released then? Apr 16 15:17:26 even if it's not yet included Apr 16 15:24:06 Hrm . . . interesting. lardman, do you want to go to LinuxTag? Apr 16 15:24:22 I am going Apr 16 15:24:41 Should I put you forward to speak for "What's next?"? Apr 16 15:24:50 Wait Apr 16 15:24:52 I'm already doing that afaik Apr 16 15:24:53 You're already speaking Apr 16 15:24:54 * GeneralAntilles wakes up. Apr 16 15:24:55 :) Apr 16 15:25:45 * GeneralAntilles gives up again. Apr 16 15:26:06 hi lardman Apr 16 15:26:09 Right, I need some help with _make_words() in the codebooks.c file of the Tremor decoder; any volunteers? Apr 16 15:26:20 codebook.c that should be Apr 16 15:27:52 https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/test-code/dsp/codebook.c?root=dsp-tremor&rev=1&view=markup Apr 16 15:29:02 hi opendeep Apr 16 15:30:38 I am getting problem while installing python-gtkmvc in sbox,it's throwing permission denied error Apr 16 15:30:53 can you help me Apr 16 15:31:40 installed like this: fakeroot ./setup install Apr 16 15:31:59 installed what? Apr 16 15:32:14 ah, read upward, silly me Apr 16 15:32:52 not really I'm afraid, I don't know all that much about Python Apr 16 15:34:01 It's OK Apr 16 15:39:07 re Apr 16 15:39:55 what mean the number 3 in liblzo2-dev_2.02-3_armel.deb Apr 16 15:40:13 sub-sub version Apr 16 15:40:21 build version? Apr 16 15:40:40 sounds better than mine Apr 16 15:40:41 does it is an obligation ? Apr 16 15:41:20 (for maemo reository i mean) Apr 16 15:41:26 Khertan_on_n810: usually the 2.02 is the upstream version and the -x is increased always when a modification is done to the package by the package maintainer Apr 16 15:42:11 uh i always use the 0.0.x for package modification Apr 16 15:43:13 I think the meaning is stated in the debian package policy or something like that :) Apr 16 15:43:18 thx for the info Apr 16 15:43:20 and I think maemo's policy is close to it Apr 16 15:43:30 Khertan_on_n810: Yet more rules :) Apr 16 15:44:01 Khertan_on_n810: You should really check out lintian. Apr 16 15:44:10 X-fade > i m reading again maintainer guide Apr 16 15:44:35 Khertan_on_n810: Lintian will do all checks for you and tell you what you do wrong. Apr 16 15:44:38 but english isn't my native language Apr 16 15:44:52 That is a lot easier than reading that thing over and over.. Apr 16 15:45:07 it s why i ve asked confirmation Apr 16 15:45:42 Yeah, what you try to do is hard ;) Apr 16 15:45:52 where can i found it Apr 16 15:46:14 http://lintian.debian.org/ Apr 16 15:46:32 x-fade > yes, but i hope this will help to have less independant repository Apr 16 15:46:53 an other tool, an other choice ... Apr 16 15:47:33 If you ever want to get your packages into debian, they'd better pass lintian tests ;) Apr 16 15:48:43 is there a port of lintian on maemo ? Apr 16 15:50:15 Doesn't look like it. Apr 16 15:50:16 hola Apr 16 15:50:52 hi Apr 16 15:53:12 arg. as u know i dev only on nit as i haven t time to do it on a desktop computer Apr 16 15:53:36 That is a 'challenge' ;) Apr 16 15:53:55 :) Apr 16 15:54:53 it s why i ve ake pygtkeditor and pypackager :) Apr 16 15:55:11 to have tools to work onboard Apr 16 15:56:49 so i suppose that .changes file should be also homeip-0.0.5-1_armel.deb Apr 16 15:57:16 i mean homeip-0.0.5-1_armel.changes Apr 16 16:11:33 ouch i really need to finish to hildonize glade Apr 16 16:11:45 it s open too many windows on my n810 Apr 16 16:31:15 re Apr 16 16:31:31 x-fade are u still here ? Apr 16 16:32:43 can i upload (maybe there is still error) package homeip-0.5.0-1_armel.deb ? Apr 16 16:33:00 /s/error/errors Apr 16 17:23:28 evening all Apr 16 17:23:58 mornin Apr 16 17:32:23 ae the maemo repos terrably painfully slow, so much so that dl's commonly fail? Apr 16 17:32:27 ae=are Apr 16 17:32:49 heyla... does anyone have a link to instructions on setting the wayfinder files not to be indexed by ogg-support ? Apr 16 17:32:58 s/by/after installing/ Apr 16 17:32:58 denny meant: heyla... does anyone have a link to instructions on setting the wayfinder files not to be indexed after installing ogg-support ? Apr 16 17:33:07 * denny blinks Apr 16 17:33:18 infobot: cookie Apr 16 17:33:20 Hey denny, do you feel violated is oh yah it hurts bad Apr 16 17:33:28 WorkingOnWis1, there are a lot of maemo repositories. Apr 16 17:33:33 It really depends on which one. Apr 16 17:33:40 Lot of variables involved. Apr 16 17:35:01 I think my isp is throttling my pipe. it seeme EVERYthing I dl from any repo is pig slow. xornal, maps, fbreader, canola, gcomris, pidgin, everything! Apr 16 17:35:20 Gayfinder sucks. im not paying that much for navigation Apr 16 17:35:23 Personally, I don't have much trouble. Apr 16 17:35:32 Then, don't, Cptnodegard. :P Apr 16 17:35:41 there are cracks? o.o Apr 16 17:36:10 Dunno, but my point is that if you don't want to pay for it, don't pay for it. :P Apr 16 17:36:13 the GPS in my N810 sucks so badly, it'd be quicker to send a carrier pigeon off to get a map from someone Apr 16 17:36:21 i can dl iso's to the N800 right? I'll test with an ubuntu hardy iso dl Apr 16 17:36:25 by the time it figures out where I am, I'll be two miles away from there Apr 16 17:36:33 i want it (as maemo mapper sucks worse over here) but i dont want to pay for it Apr 16 17:36:36 apt-get install maemo-mapper Apr 16 17:36:51 Why does Maemo Mapper suck more in Europe? Apr 16 17:37:09 I was under the impression that Open Street was pretty good over there. Apr 16 17:38:15 aargh, I need a bigger buffer Apr 16 17:38:17 maps vs meamo mapper maps isnt even a competition... and real images like google earth'ish stuff is waaaaay too undetailed to even see what part of town you are in Apr 16 17:39:30 lardman.buffer = malloc(9999999); Apr 16 17:39:38 lcuk: :) Apr 16 17:39:48 What are "maemo mapper maps"? Apr 16 17:39:49 nah, I mean to get dbg() info back from the DSP Apr 16 17:40:12 lcuk: in fact I need dmesg to record more lines. Is that possible? Apr 16 17:40:36 dont know, never delved into the deeper aspects Apr 16 17:40:47 I'll have to hit Google Apr 16 17:41:18 dmesg [ -c ] [ -n level ] [ -s bufsize ] Apr 16 17:41:24 GeneralAntilles: open street, google maps etc... in open street i see the railways and E6.... Apr 16 17:41:48 seems possible... Apr 16 17:44:23 lardman: CONFIG_LOG_BUF_SHIFT++ Apr 16 17:44:55 from 14 to 17? (I think you are reading the same apges as me :P ) Apr 16 17:45:04 pages* Apr 16 17:45:46 lcuk: kernel/printk.c :) Apr 16 17:46:58 of course you could look there Apr 16 17:47:21 * lcuk knows why he has n00b status Apr 16 17:47:37 lcuk: that or google. fastest way to find out, depending on whether the keyboard focus is in a terminal window or the web browser. Apr 16 17:48:38 sorry chaps, keyboard went tits up so had to reboot Apr 16 17:48:49 Anybody else continually wondering how Nokia could've screwed up the fullscreen keyboard's enter-key behavior so badly? Apr 16 17:49:14 pH5: did you write something just before I left? Apr 16 17:49:25 since i dont use it dont see how they cocked up. but last night i was thinking the OSK would be better than the real 810 kb Apr 16 17:49:25 lardman: CONFIG_LOG_BUF_SHIFT++ Apr 16 17:49:31 first time ive ever wondered that Apr 16 17:49:47 pH5: how does one use that? Apr 16 17:49:52 anyway, tea time, back later Apr 16 17:49:53 A buddy of mine with an N810 has been using the fullscreen keyboard more than the hardware keyboard lately. Apr 16 17:50:09 lardman: it's a kernel configuration parameter that determines the ring buffer size Apr 16 17:50:16 defaults to 14 (16k buffer) Apr 16 17:50:18 ah, ok Apr 16 17:51:00 pH5: do you happen to know if dmesg returns all of the buffer by default? I may be able to extract some more from it I suppose Apr 16 17:51:50 _up Apr 16 17:52:06 N810 in the shower? <_< Apr 16 17:52:13 AWESOME! Apr 16 17:52:18 the ziplok bag mod Apr 16 17:52:20 lardman|washing_: dmesg defaults to 16k, so if your buffer is already bigger than that, you can gain something by dmesg -s somebigvalue. otherwise it's kernel recompile time. Apr 16 17:52:27 hehe Apr 16 17:52:31 Hehe, hell yeah, Mousey! :D Apr 16 17:52:40 ziplock mod works with phones too Apr 16 17:53:13 double sanwhich bags, for your protection Apr 16 17:53:23 * Mousey kant spel todai Apr 16 17:53:48 That's how I used to do it before I got an otterbox for canoeing. Apr 16 17:54:13 GeneralAntilles: how is wayfinder navigation on the waterways? Apr 16 17:54:35 It's not Apr 16 17:54:40 I used Google Sat. Apr 16 17:54:48 s/used/use/ Apr 16 17:54:48 GeneralAntilles meant: I use Google Sat. Apr 16 17:54:53 GA, you use the otterbox 1900? Apr 16 17:55:32 I have the otterbox 1900.. but ima 'fraid to use it on the NIT.. I have to poke pretty deep on the plastic to contact the touchscreen Apr 16 17:55:46 2600 Apr 16 17:55:52 It's a mildly tight fit. Apr 16 17:56:00 Works OK Apr 16 17:56:06 the 1900 is tight too Apr 16 17:56:22 I just wouldn't try using the touchscreen much Apr 16 17:56:41 I used to use an iQue 3600 with Garmin's BlueChart. Apr 16 17:56:55 Really nice for boating. Apr 16 17:57:22 But the aerial photos are better for canoeing. Apr 16 17:57:53 The 2000 is perfect as a shipping container, though. Apr 16 17:59:18 I guess I would just use the 1900 as the shipping container too, if I had to ship it Apr 16 17:59:43 Yeah, that'd work. Apr 16 17:59:49 Expensive if you just need it for shipping, though. ;) Apr 16 18:00:39 yeah.. I managed to get 20% off retail, and that was a steal Apr 16 18:00:47 and still it was like $80 or something Apr 16 18:01:30 What's quite useful about the otterbox is the interface to ram-mounts parts Apr 16 18:01:44 I have yet to find a NIT holder that will interface with ram-mounts parts Apr 16 18:01:44 My buddy interns for the EPA during the summer down in the Everglades. Apr 16 18:02:00 pH5: :thanks Apr 16 18:02:06 They've just tens of thousands of dollars of otterbox and pelican stuff down there for all of their equipment Apr 16 18:02:12 s/just/got/ Apr 16 18:02:12 GeneralAntilles meant: They've got tens of thousands of dollars of otterbox and pelican stuff down there for all of their equipment Apr 16 18:02:41 * GeneralAntilles should remember to turn his fingers off auto-pilot more often. Apr 16 18:02:53 great products.. not enough competition to make the prices good Apr 16 18:03:04 Hehe Apr 16 18:03:58 hmm, it appears I'm already seeing it all; oh well Apr 16 18:04:49 derf: you happen to be about and willing to answer questions? Apr 16 18:05:14 lardman: Yes. Apr 16 18:05:44 I should probably dig through the spec, but will run it by you quickly Apr 16 18:06:18 I'm getting "overpopulated tree!" in _make_words() in codebook.c Apr 16 18:06:52 I've added output info to the function, but for the time being at least, there's too much info for me to get more than the tail end from dmesg Apr 16 18:07:38 anyone from australia or NZ around here? Just wondering what you folks have out there for connectivity. Apr 16 18:07:47 actually there's probably not much you can do; I need to sit down and work out how the function operates to work out what to try outputing Apr 16 18:09:42 Well, the relevant section of the spec is 3.2.1.1 Apr 16 18:10:05 thanks, will take a look see Apr 16 18:12:30 hmm, byte width of a leaf, sounds like it might be dangerous... Apr 16 18:13:48 Yeah... I would suspect the function you are actually having problems with is decpack(). Apr 16 18:14:51 derf: well that's useful; decpack is called so often I was going to try to see if I could nail down the data in _make_words(), but that's called far too often too Apr 16 18:15:36 supper time, then I'll take a look at decpack() Apr 16 18:15:41 derf: thanks for the pointer Apr 16 18:17:10 lardman|supper: Well, there's some fairly obvious braindamage in decpack() that you shouldn't need a debugger to see. Apr 16 18:17:35 Like the part where it does "entry/=quantvals" and then never uses the value of entry again. Apr 16 18:18:11 I suspect it was meant to be used in the expression in the next line, but it simply doesn't appear there. Apr 16 18:24:22 hmm interesting Apr 16 18:24:48 The only problem is that I'm running the same code on x86 and it produces different (but perhaps also wrong) results Apr 16 18:25:40 I'll have to check the 16bit char thing for that code and see if it's producing the error; then check the function vs the current Tremor (not lowmem) code Apr 16 18:28:37 hi Apr 16 18:29:06 I'd like to make my Nokia 770 an mp3 player. What free application would you recommend I use? Apr 16 18:30:04 Canola, Kagu, UKMP, Kilikali, mpd/MMPC, Media player, etc, etc Apr 16 18:30:07 There's tons of options Apr 16 18:30:18 The best bet is to look at them all until you find the one that suits you best. Apr 16 18:30:20 Is Canola free? Apr 16 18:30:25 They're all free. Apr 16 18:30:29 Oh OK Apr 16 18:30:35 There's maybe 3 applications on the platform that aren't free. Apr 16 18:30:57 I asked about Canola cause someone posted a comment saying "I use Canola everyday for listen music in the train. If it was free..." Apr 16 18:31:06 Oh Apr 16 18:31:10 It also says "Non-free license" Apr 16 18:31:12 They mean free as in speech. Apr 16 18:31:18 Not free as in beer. Apr 16 18:31:36 Which do you use? Apr 16 18:31:41 They're being stubborn for pointless philosophical reasons. Apr 16 18:31:43 Kinda depends Apr 16 18:31:49 Canola2 is probably what I use most. Apr 16 18:31:53 Have used UKMP in the past. Apr 16 18:31:58 OK Apr 16 18:32:00 Media player is useful for audio books. Apr 16 18:32:12 MMPC for when I'm playing networked stuff Apr 16 18:32:13 MPlayer Apr 16 18:32:15 ? Apr 16 18:32:20 I have lots of audio books Apr 16 18:32:26 gmplayer, you mean. ;) Apr 16 18:32:27 Which is what I'd like to use it for Apr 16 18:32:33 If it works for you, I suppose it's an option Apr 16 18:32:38 So gmplayer is good? Apr 16 18:32:41 It's just a touch . . . limited as a front-end, though. Apr 16 18:32:46 for Audio book purposes Apr 16 18:32:48 oh ok Apr 16 18:32:54 I use Media player for audio books. Apr 16 18:32:57 The built-in one. Apr 16 18:33:18 There's a patched version with better audio book support Apr 16 18:33:25 I haven't bothered investigating Apr 16 18:33:34 Ohhh ok Apr 16 18:33:39 I thought you meant MPlayer Apr 16 18:33:41 My audio books are generally chopped up into fairly small chunks, so bookmarking isn't a huge issue for me. Apr 16 18:33:53 My audio books are like an hour long each Apr 16 18:34:02 There's a patched version of mplayer, I should say. Apr 16 18:34:04 And my trips are 10-30 minutes Apr 16 18:34:19 so I'd have to stop or "bookmark" them often Apr 16 18:34:28 To continue them later Apr 16 18:34:57 Maybe look into the patched mplayer Apr 16 18:35:01 OK Apr 16 18:35:03 There's an audio book thread on ITT Apr 16 18:35:12 I haven't paid much attention, though. Apr 16 18:35:19 qwerty12 could tell you more whenever he's around. Apr 16 18:35:26 OK Apr 16 18:35:29 I'll check ITT Apr 16 18:35:31 Thanks GA Apr 16 18:35:38 Sure thing. Apr 16 18:35:59 What battery life do you get on yours when listening to audio? Apr 16 18:36:23 Screen off, it's something like 8-12 hours. Apr 16 18:36:31 Maybe a little different on the 770. Apr 16 18:36:40 I haven't run-down tested any of my 770s in a while. ;) Apr 16 18:38:30 OK Apr 16 18:38:36 Cool Apr 16 18:42:52 derf: that line may be correct as it's in a loop Apr 16 18:52:49 Ah, you're right. Apr 16 18:53:33 unfortunately that fn doesn't exist in the newer Tremor code Apr 16 19:03:23 hmm, I don't understand the code Apr 16 19:03:33 anyone here with experience of Huffman decoding? Apr 16 19:12:50 hmm, n is not incremented and passed to _make_words() Apr 16 19:14:20 lardman: only theory of it Apr 16 19:15:40 Jaffa: try this for size https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/test-code/dsp/codebook.c?root=dsp-tremor&view=markup Apr 16 19:16:07 :) Apr 16 19:19:36 hmm, I wonder where my problem lies; it appears that the variable n in _make_words() is not altered Apr 16 19:20:11 n is passed in from s->entries in _make_decode_table(); but is not altered in either of these functions Apr 16 19:22:22 Why would n be incremented? Apr 16 19:22:42 In is the length of the list, l (i.e., the number of codewords). Apr 16 19:22:45 *n Apr 16 19:23:10 not incremented then, but jumps in powers of 2 Apr 16 19:23:25 What? Apr 16 19:23:37 8, 64, etc Apr 16 19:23:41 I know what powers of two are. Apr 16 19:23:49 hang on, let me pastebin the output Apr 16 19:25:17 http://pastebin.com/m79c11a78 - DSP output Apr 16 19:25:32 http://pastebin.com/m5490ad50 - x86 output (same code) Apr 16 19:26:11 I was looking at the DSP output lines that go: _make_words: Entered; n=0; quantvals=8 Apr 16 19:27:18 hmm, looks like my parameters are swapped around... Apr 16 19:29:10 I don't know how you managed that one. Apr 16 19:29:41 no, nor do I; the code looks the same as far as I've looked Apr 16 19:30:11 _make_decode_table pulls one of those values from s, and the other directly from the stack. Apr 16 19:30:40 yep, the function calls are identical between the two codes Apr 16 19:30:46 And the value of quantvals on the stack should really be 0 unless you've somehow managed to get the mapping type completely wrong. Apr 16 19:30:47 or rather calls to the function Apr 16 19:31:25 well at least it explains why the code falls over; next thing is to work out how Apr 16 19:34:29 will try casting the output on the DSP side to a short just incase the dbg() function is splitting the 32bit number across 2 shorts and displaying it like that Apr 16 19:36:44 yes, it can only display 16bit numbers as its params, so it was ignoring the second number I passed it Apr 16 19:36:55 so now they produce identical output Apr 16 19:39:01 identical in terms of the n and quantvals values anyway Apr 16 19:41:24 does maemo's kernel contain windows like patches, which boost i/o intensive processes? Apr 16 19:42:52 tbf: I don't know , send the source core I will have a look Apr 16 19:43:54 keesj: i don't understand Apr 16 19:45:06 information about window's priority boost feature: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms684828(VS.85).aspx Apr 16 19:46:21 well, and i believe to see similiar misbehaviour on maemo: i/o intensive processes (a verbose dbus service) seems to get all CPU cycles until it silences Apr 16 19:51:34 tbf: you can dynamically determine scheduling with the nice system call Apr 16 19:53:27 i don't believe thats 'windows like' though Apr 16 19:53:47 trickie: yup. seems i have to do that. Apr 16 19:54:17 tbf: that "dynamic" priority in the article is similiar to what linux used yes Apr 16 19:55:28 the thing is that "io" intensive tasks will "eat" up there share of time pretty soon. Apr 16 19:55:35 derf: sorry for the slight sidetrack with the apparently different parameters; it's back to _make_words() Apr 16 19:56:18 scheduling in a windows kernel is probably a lot different, so its hard to say 'this feature matches that feature' Apr 16 19:56:38 keesj: five ten of UI starvation due some greedy io intensive task doesn't fit any definition of soon - imho Apr 16 19:56:52 s/five// Apr 16 19:56:52 tbf meant: keesj: ten of UI starvation due some greedy io intensive task doesn't fit any definition of soon - imho Apr 16 19:57:08 the unix strategy used to be give one thing very high proitiry at the time , but that has changed over time to give the system better responsiveness Apr 16 19:57:10 ten seconds Apr 16 19:57:34 * tbf 'd prefer some kind of fairness Apr 16 19:57:51 tbf: that sounds like a programmer errror :P Apr 16 19:58:24 keesj: not really. Apr 16 19:59:14 well, if you assume it to be in the kernel... ok, agreed. Apr 16 19:59:22 a ui thread is supposed to be not cpu(not talking about IO) intensive Apr 16 19:59:45 keesj: man GtkTreeView Apr 16 19:59:52 the dynamic proirity should go up and whenever it needs time I will get it (that is the idea) Apr 16 20:00:22 that widget needs some cycles. Apr 16 20:00:23 tbf: kernel has nothing to do with GTK Apr 16 20:00:24 Gtk is also a good example of a non threaded program Apr 16 20:00:44 under windows the system itself can redraw the window(if not resized) Apr 16 20:00:46 keesj: you said "a ui thread is supposed to be not cpu intensive" Apr 16 20:00:58 keesj: i only presented you the counter proof Apr 16 20:01:08 yes 99% of the time it should be waiting for user input Apr 16 20:02:01 keesj: still UI processes have peak situations, were they also need quite alot of CPU cycles... Apr 16 20:02:05 I am not here to defend anything merly trying to tell you what I thing is the version of the trueth Apr 16 20:02:13 ...for instance when updating a tree view Apr 16 20:02:14 lardman: Is an int only 16 bits? Apr 16 20:03:02 tbf: a tree or something else will not take more then 800x480 pixels how is that harder to draw? Apr 16 20:03:14 derf, in c int == 32bit Apr 16 20:03:19 lcuk: No. Apr 16 20:03:21 (playing a little supid here) Apr 16 20:03:24 That is dead false. Apr 16 20:03:24 stupid Apr 16 20:03:29 lcuk: depends on arch Apr 16 20:03:50 yer on here in maemo where we are sat and compiling with gcc an int is fuffin 32bit Apr 16 20:03:53 keesj: yes, GtkTreeView is not the most efficient widget ever written Apr 16 20:04:18 lcuk: he is probably compiling for dsp Apr 16 20:04:31 ;) good point :P Apr 16 20:04:43 I don't know about GtkTreeView , I don't even really know about gtk Apr 16 20:04:52 tbf: but why would the kernel be responsible for scheduling the process that is using the gtktreeview Apr 16 20:05:12 beyond what it does normally Apr 16 20:05:46 the widget itself, or gtk itself should be responsible for a responsive gui Apr 16 20:05:49 trickie: well, a kernel has the resposiblity to properly schedule real applications Apr 16 20:06:13 tbf: the proccess is probabely not I/O intensive but CPU bounded (if I understand correctly) Apr 16 20:06:14 trickie: well, it cann't when the kernel is broken and doesn't give the UI process any cpu cycles Apr 16 20:06:48 tbf: well is it a single process, just not async? Apr 16 20:06:55 i don't know Apr 16 20:07:35 tbf: but linux doesn't know if a process is UI or not Apr 16 20:07:58 it can be told to determine scheduling somewhat from userspace, but it needs to be told Apr 16 20:08:08 I guess this is not the right channel to get the best answers anyway. Apr 16 20:08:09 trickie: well, i just say that boosting processes 'cause they cause alot of CPU load is wrong Apr 16 20:08:17 at least in this case ;-) Apr 16 20:08:46 the maemo kernel is able to increase speed even (freq scaling) and thus giving everybody a boost Apr 16 20:09:53 tbf: so you changed your opinion , you started about I/O righht? Apr 16 20:09:55 right Apr 16 20:12:30 tbf: but I agree with you, maemo is just like windows 3.1 , and the app on the foreground should at least feel fast Apr 16 20:12:53 keesj: well, but they cann't be fast for that scheduling bug Apr 16 20:13:07 keesj: maemo uses many dbus services.... Apr 16 20:13:13 i agree also, just not a good example, as the two scheduling systems are different Apr 16 20:13:14 ....which means many io peaks... Apr 16 20:13:34 tbf: but it works completely differently Apr 16 20:13:34 ....which means many background processes get CPU time, when foreground processes should get it. Apr 16 20:14:14 tbf: then renice them Apr 16 20:14:17 it can be done Apr 16 20:16:00 trickie: doing that right now. Apr 16 20:17:21 though nicing processes doesnt always get things up to full speed. it might get processes taking up more of the timeslice, but if the cpu thinks it doesnt need the power it will stay down at 166mhz ;) Apr 16 20:21:52 lcuk: well, guess fortunatly the horrors of GtkTreeView will convince the kernel that full cpu frequency is needed ;-) Apr 16 20:22:18 anyone ever have any trouble with 'personal menu' launching 2 xterm windows? I am using osso-xterm 0.14 m12 Apr 16 20:22:44 tbf, so its worked for you? Apr 16 20:26:34 lcuk: somehow Apr 16 20:26:34 lcuk: i know, i was just arguing that there was a way to reschedule UI process, its just done from userspace Apr 16 20:27:22 tbf, do repeated testings because what works now may not work in 5 minutes or even next run Apr 16 20:27:32 derf: sorry about the delay; char = short = int = 16bits; long =float = double = 32bits; long long = 40bits Apr 16 20:28:33 trickie, just renicing doesnt work - ive got a blit routine here that kicks the cpu over its threshold only if i DOUBLE the workload. it needs to run at fullspeed but the governor wont let it Apr 16 20:28:49 doesn't always work* Apr 16 20:30:35 lcuk: sure Apr 16 20:30:50 lardman: The int bit=... lines looks like a potential problem, then, though not _the_ problem. Apr 16 20:35:19 lcuk: could you use HAL to set the freq scaling? Apr 16 20:35:22 http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/hal_howto.html Apr 16 20:37:18 the chinook version seems to contain the org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.CPUFreq interface Apr 16 20:38:15 hmmm, just looking now Apr 16 20:38:21 lcuk: http://blog.homac.de/?p=42 Apr 16 20:38:26 nver used it though Apr 16 20:39:55 well i have modified the govenor and scaling directly with (/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor) and (/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/ondemand/up_threshold) in the past which does work. if this gives me a clean way to run the program which will not leave the device in a higher battery drain state than when i started that will be good. (assume the program crashes, will the setting be reset) Apr 16 20:41:31 derf: In my code that's a 16bit type now Apr 16 20:41:39 ogg_int16_t bit=(entry>>(length-j-1))&1; Apr 16 20:43:33 lcuk: yeah looks, interesting, probably wouldn't reset though Apr 16 20:43:33 lardman: I was more concerned that entry and marker were 32-bit. Apr 16 20:44:08 true Apr 16 20:44:51 trickie, what does appear interesting is that it appears to be a userspace api, the current governors cannot be written by default n810 user Apr 16 20:45:05 could make a small request daemon that watches for exit of requesting processes Apr 16 20:45:35 derf: It should be ok to make it a (dsp) long Apr 16 20:45:38 it may be acceptable to do the switching withing a small wrapper exe/script which would get called even if the main app dies Apr 16 20:46:47 lcuk: well it would be nice to have a small request daemon on the dbus also, so that processes don't clobber each others requests Apr 16 20:46:58 anyway, food for thought... Apr 16 20:47:03 im off, night! Apr 16 20:47:27 the best idea would be to just allow this to be configured from the control panel and let the user choose once, but thats for another day Apr 16 20:47:39 lcuk: you could write your own signal handler so you will always get a more or less controlled exit Apr 16 20:47:41 thanks trickie Apr 16 20:51:05 well I've forced the _make_words() fn to return after it's first invocation, and the length and entry values match for DSP vs x86 Apr 16 20:51:42 i could (and have) write signal handler, but i just want to be as sure as possible Apr 16 20:52:32 lcuk: that would be really border cases :) Apr 16 20:52:49 Also, today is apparently my day for not being able to read code. Apr 16 20:52:53 bit is always 0 or 1. Apr 16 20:53:03 join the club.. Apr 16 20:53:04 So the type is completely irrelevant. Apr 16 20:53:08 :> Apr 16 20:53:08 derf: wrong :) Apr 16 20:53:16 derf: alignment? Apr 16 20:53:21 * lcuk fell down stairs this afternoon :S Apr 16 20:53:24 It's a local variable. Apr 16 20:53:35 lcuk: all by yourself? Apr 16 20:53:36 o.O Apr 16 20:53:47 derf: still, some types cannot be accessed bit-by-bit Apr 16 20:53:47 derf: ok, so no reason to change the type then Apr 16 20:54:08 yer i tripped near the top (only 4 steps) and went arse over tit and hurt my arm and legs :( Apr 16 20:54:15 AStorm: It's a good thing no one's trying to do that, then. Apr 16 20:54:25 huh Apr 16 20:54:25 (lip at the door caught on my shoe) Apr 16 20:54:36 and i went flying Apr 16 20:54:58 it's the moments like that when you really feel alive Apr 16 20:54:59 ;) Apr 16 20:55:12 its moment like that that i wanted to cry Apr 16 20:55:13 good you didn't fractured anything Apr 16 20:55:14 :) Apr 16 20:55:16 it fuffin hurt Apr 16 20:55:24 i still dont know if i have Apr 16 20:55:29 it's the moment like that you wish you had recorded Apr 16 20:55:31 its swollen Apr 16 20:55:34 you would feel if Apr 16 20:55:35 :) Apr 16 20:55:43 hmm Apr 16 20:55:50 yer i know Apr 16 20:55:58 it is swolen but mobile Apr 16 20:56:13 could be a sprain Apr 16 20:56:18 most likely Apr 16 20:56:32 Hit it with a hammer and see if it hurts. Apr 16 20:57:24 still, you're alive Apr 16 20:57:42 so it wasn't that bad :) Apr 16 21:04:00 hmm, this will be interesting to try to debug Apr 16 21:04:08 http://pastebin.com/m175a1104 for DSP Apr 16 21:04:16 http://pastebin.com/m15675484 for x86 Apr 16 21:04:39 search for the number 4559 to align (for want of a better suggestion) Apr 16 21:05:21 i'm doing science now and i am alive :) Apr 16 21:05:40 I feel fantastic and I'm still alive Apr 16 21:07:41 lol Apr 16 21:07:43 :) Apr 16 21:24:16 lardman: work & 0xffff =4294949584 Apr 16 21:24:18 Nice. Apr 16 21:24:37 :) Apr 16 21:24:39 o.o Apr 16 21:24:49 endiannes fun Apr 16 21:24:51 well, I think it's supposed to come out as a signed 16bit integer Apr 16 21:25:23 I can probably fix that by fiddling with the dbg() format string Apr 16 21:25:57 It very nicely is 0xFFFFBAD0 in hex. Apr 16 21:26:48 :) Apr 16 21:27:05 It looks like the length array has something wrong with it anyway Apr 16 21:27:10 for that one case Apr 16 21:27:11 re Apr 16 21:27:23 re Apr 16 21:33:07 somebody here linked me to instructions on how to stop the media indexer thingy picking up the navi sounds after you install ogg-support - I've reflashed and need the link again :) Apr 16 21:33:45 denny, this chan is indexed by google. entire history is available Apr 16 21:34:16 yah, but... picking the right keywords seems to be eluding me Apr 16 21:35:26 * lcuk feels silly telling a staffer how the chan works ;) Apr 16 21:35:35 Hmm, watching "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles", then reading about Google intelligently spidering the deep web by trying to guess what to enter in search boxes etc: makes you worried about the future Apr 16 21:35:43 lardman: It concerns me that s->dec_table&0xffff is off by exactly 4096. Apr 16 21:36:06 There's also the search engine in the logs in the topic Apr 16 21:36:19 lardman: But since I don't even know what you're really printing there, I have no idea what that means. Apr 16 21:36:25 derf: that's an address, so probably not something to worry about Apr 16 21:36:26 Since I'm presuming you aren't printing the pointer. Apr 16 21:36:31 I am Apr 16 21:36:36 Oh... Apr 16 21:36:43 I wanted to see how large the allocated regions are Apr 16 21:37:03 as they are "allocated" from a buffer Apr 16 21:37:18 my apologies, I should have explained Apr 16 21:38:07 if I do this a[i], it should be the same as *(a + i); does this account for the type size? Apr 16 21:38:08 denny, did you disable the indexer totally or just stop it picking up a few things? Apr 16 21:38:36 Point arithmetic always accounts for the type size. Apr 16 21:38:47 *Poitner Apr 16 21:38:49 *Pointer Apr 16 21:38:53 let's hope the DSP's compiler agrees with that ;) Apr 16 21:39:22 The only case where that can possibly be different is if i is negative. Apr 16 21:39:22 lcuk: the instructions I was given guided me through setting the mime type of those files to something the indexer would ignore Apr 16 21:39:29 it was quite a neat trick, in a horrible sort of way :) Apr 16 21:39:40 The DSP sometimes has problems accessing pointers as arrays, not altogether sure why; I'm wondering if I've hit one of those sorts of problems and it's knackered the values pointed to by *l Apr 16 21:40:14 lardman: maybe it's a race condition? Apr 16 21:40:25 AStorm: no Apr 16 21:40:46 Good evening everyone :) Apr 16 21:40:57 * Jaffa beds. Apr 16 21:41:05 lardman: or it expects some alignment Apr 16 21:41:20 (e.g. lack of) Apr 16 21:41:33 I have a noobish question: where are the contacts saved on my device? Apr 16 21:41:43 AStorm: it works fine for 7 or so calls to the function, then goes wrong Apr 16 21:41:57 hmmhmm Apr 16 21:42:07 some counter overflow Apr 16 21:42:36 maybe you didn't do something required Apr 16 21:42:54 without a doubt :) Apr 16 21:43:00 some register clear or whatnot Apr 16 21:43:16 there's no reason to suspect any of those really Apr 16 21:43:23 mhm Apr 16 21:43:35 it simply appears that the data I'm expecting to read is not as it should be Apr 16 21:43:52 transfer error? Apr 16 21:44:00 maybe there's some flag? Apr 16 21:44:12 derf: changing from array to pointer accesses hasn't done anything, the length is still wrong Apr 16 21:44:19 we need docs :) Apr 16 21:44:23 AStorm: like which one? Apr 16 21:44:28 AStorm: we have docs Apr 16 21:44:33 gimme :) Apr 16 21:44:52 I don't have them at hand Apr 16 21:44:56 Search on the Ti website for "c55 optimizing C compiler guide" Apr 16 21:45:02 mhm Apr 16 21:45:35 spru281e.pdf Apr 16 21:49:32 * AStorm jumps into reading mode Apr 16 21:51:49 AStorm: The point is that the problem is in the code Apr 16 21:52:07 or rather my alterations to the code to make it run on the DSP Apr 16 21:55:49 I hope so :P Apr 16 21:57:01 there's no reason to think otherwise Apr 16 22:04:35 hmm, lengthlist points to an array which contains, in its latter parts, the wrong data Apr 16 22:05:49 some spurious values, then filled with 1s.... Apr 16 22:44:51 derf: have summarised the position in a post soon to arrive here (I hope) https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/dsp-tremor-devel/ Apr 16 22:48:59 night all Apr 16 23:21:21 i wonder if there's an upnp media server that can reencode videos on the fly. Apr 16 23:29:14 where can I get python-pygtksourceview I goggled it and nothing for the IT, bit I need it for pygtkeditor Apr 16 23:32:48 WorkingOnWise: it's the first hit when you google for: python-pygtksourceview pygtkeditor -> http://khertan.net/downloads.php Apr 16 23:33:41 * jott sprays the some searchlores.org in the channel Apr 16 23:33:46 I didnt include pygtkeditor...dooh! Apr 16 23:34:03 thanks jott Apr 16 23:34:23 well "python-pygtksourceview maemo" gave khertans site as the second hit for me ... Apr 16 23:57:34 Hey all, I'm going to get a new N810 and was wondering is it true how a website I just looked at says it has a swappable battery? Apr 16 23:57:52 huh? Apr 16 23:58:00 yes, batery is removable Apr 16 23:58:07 and is in fact normal nokia's battery Apr 16 23:58:22 compatible with some cellular models Apr 16 23:58:34 and is swappable in ~5s Apr 16 23:58:35 ;) Apr 16 23:58:53 less if you are really fast Apr 16 23:59:58 look for: bp-4l Apr 17 00:00:08 * lcuk laffs Apr 17 00:00:28 and be prepared to pay far more than it's worth Apr 17 00:00:33 because those things are way overpriced Apr 17 00:01:02 elb: i find nokia's originals far better in quality than 'replacements' Apr 17 00:01:12 one of these days im gonna drill down into my cradle and add 12 AA rechargables in the handles Apr 17 00:01:14 but i agree, they charge extra Apr 17 00:01:48 the official batteries are generally better than replacements Apr 17 00:02:20 it's best when you can find mAh equivalencies for both the original and the various replacements Apr 17 00:02:30 heh.. Apr 17 00:02:34 I've bought replacements which were equivalent in the past, for Motorola phones Apr 17 00:02:44 they die sooner Apr 17 00:02:44 i could happily live with an entire flatpack on the back of my 810. same depth as current battery but extended onto case shape Apr 17 00:03:10 * lcuk ponders Apr 17 00:03:10 but i couldn't find any equivalents at all for the BP-4L, much less equivalents which were similar in energy capacity Apr 17 00:03:11 generally replacements are more sensitive to charging quality Apr 17 00:03:23 oh, now I haven't had that problem Apr 17 00:03:47 I've also bought replacements with lesser capacity ... because 80% of the capacity of a $30 battery for $6 is OK for most phones ;-) Apr 17 00:03:58 yup Apr 17 00:04:06 who talks for five hours between charges, anyway Apr 17 00:04:06 6$ is ok for a quick spare Apr 17 00:04:11 I'd kill myself Apr 17 00:04:26 elb: skype will drain it in 3h Apr 17 00:04:27 :) Apr 17 00:04:29 i could happily use my 810 for 5 hours though Apr 17 00:04:39 I don't skype with my phones, though Apr 17 00:04:49 i'm talking about n800 now Apr 17 00:04:51 like I said ... I don't know of any replacement equivalents for the bp-4l Apr 17 00:05:02 there probably are some,but when I looked I saw only official or "official" batteries Apr 17 00:05:23 i use a nokia battery for my laser Apr 17 00:05:23 I don't buy "official" batteries under any circumstances -- they need to either be up front that batteries is batteries, or they need to sell me the real deal Apr 17 00:05:33 i've only had to charge it once and its still not flat :) Apr 17 00:06:06 I noticed it says 4 hours for Video/Wifi battery life, but I wonder if it would be a little bit longer for just listening to a Shoutcast for a long time, or if a continuous shoutcast would actually make it less than 4 hours Apr 17 00:06:10 elb: n800 uses another battery model i think, bp-5l Apr 17 00:06:43 RedPenguin: many activities give you longer than the stated life, and many activities give you less Apr 17 00:06:53 if you can turn the display off, you're likely to be on the long side Apr 17 00:07:01 (a shoutcast probably qualifies) Apr 17 00:07:04 RedPenguin, network traffic Apr 17 00:07:16 sticking cpu to lowest speed could help too Apr 17 00:07:26 it'll stick to the lowest speed just playing mp3s Apr 17 00:07:35 there's no reason for that to tax it Apr 17 00:07:56 I'm kind of wishing my n810 played nice with my mythtv upnp music library right now, actually Apr 17 00:08:04 I would be happy with just choosing the Shoutcast than just locking the whole thing if you can kinda do that Apr 17 00:08:05 i think using esd on mine (mad + pcmtask) bumps cpu to full Apr 17 00:08:09 as there's no musics out here on the porch ;-) Apr 17 00:08:21 RedPenguin: you can Apr 17 00:08:26 Similar to how my Creative Zen Vision:M does for music to save way more battery Apr 17 00:08:55 hello. This is probably the wrong channel, but would somebody know how to prevent the hyphenation of a certain word in MS Word 2007? Apr 17 00:09:03 wrong channel Apr 17 00:09:20 :) Apr 17 00:09:29 but there are awful lot of computer geeks here Apr 17 00:09:33 nice, I swear I wish I knew about the Nokia Internet Tablet's a while back, I haven't even got a chance to hold my new N810 yet and I'm so amazed with what it's to do and the reviews Apr 17 00:09:41 mostly linux related geeks Apr 17 00:10:18 why isnt everyone jumping in with the advert for openoffice.org? Apr 17 00:10:36 that should hyphenate the word differently ;) Apr 17 00:10:40 because there's no port of OOo for n8x0 Apr 17 00:10:41 :) Apr 17 00:10:57 And no one knows how to force hyphenation in OOo, either. Apr 17 00:11:04 Now, if you'd like to know how to do it in LaTeX... Apr 17 00:11:08 ;) Apr 17 00:11:09 but it might do different words ;) Apr 17 00:11:14 'do it in the latex' Apr 17 00:12:31 somebody who pays my salary needs to force me to use it before I even consider using it again Apr 17 00:12:46 :> Apr 17 00:14:40 * elb passes out the free \- Apr 17 00:15:06 oh, to prevent hyphenation Apr 17 00:15:26 * KotCzarny inhales \- deeply Apr 17 00:15:46 http://gizmodo.com/380467/internal-microsoft-vista-video-is-as-painful-as-videos-get Apr 17 00:16:09 yah Apr 17 00:16:14 i saw that Apr 17 00:17:26 scary... Apr 17 00:17:35 very Apr 17 00:18:05 Gtalk on the nits... Is the password broadcast in the clear? Apr 17 00:18:06 scary if your boss is like that Apr 17 00:18:14 otherwisu it's just retarded Apr 17 00:18:15 :) Apr 17 00:19:17 Ziegler: you should verify this for yourself, but generally speaking, Google Talk doesn ot allow plaintext logins at all Apr 17 00:19:53 (in fact, I don't believe it allows non-TLS connections) Apr 17 00:20:22 Good to know... But you are right... I will check it all out myslef Apr 17 00:25:38 where can I get tcpdump for os2008? Apr 17 00:26:19 Kismet able to do that? Apr 17 00:27:30 no Apr 17 00:33:30 found it Apr 17 00:35:41 KotCzarny: playing 320kbps mp3 bumps my CPU to 330MHz Apr 17 00:43:58 elb: which decoder? Apr 17 00:48:33 KotCzarny: media player Apr 17 00:49:32 i assume it uses mp3task then Apr 17 00:49:53 and i think in that case it will bump cpu to full speed even on 32kbit mp3 Apr 17 00:49:54 :) Apr 17 00:50:16 330MHz isn't full speed Apr 17 00:50:26 for dsp it is Apr 17 00:50:35 unless you use patched kernel Apr 17 00:50:53 that will use 400/133 instead of 330/220 when dsp is in use Apr 17 00:50:55 ahh I knew 400MHz was reduced DSP speed, I didn't know 330 was its max speed Apr 17 00:51:36 elb: i have sent a link with the patch Apr 17 00:51:39 to the fanoush Apr 17 00:51:54 and he agreed to include it on his page and kernel binary Apr 17 00:52:41 if enough people start using it maybe nokia will include some of the patches in main too :) Apr 17 01:05:08 is 400/133 preferable to 330/220? Apr 17 01:05:23 I guess I'm confused about what you sent to who and why ;-) Apr 17 01:06:28 elb: if 133 will be enough for a dsp task (ie. mp3/aac decoding) then you will have 67 mhz more for cpu :) Apr 17 01:06:50 oh, I'd rather it was slower ;-) Apr 17 01:07:02 huh? Apr 17 01:07:39 battery is more important to me than speed Apr 17 01:07:43 heh Apr 17 01:07:53 but dsp will bump cpu up anyway Apr 17 01:07:55 :) Apr 17 01:08:12 and if cpu can sleep longer, then it's more beneficial for battery, no? Apr 17 01:08:39 this patch is not about setting cpu to 400/133 all the time Apr 17 01:08:43 well, I'm assuming the CPU doesn't sleep while the DSP is running Apr 17 01:08:51 that might be a poor assumption Apr 17 01:08:52 only at the time dsp would use 330/220 Apr 17 01:09:01 elb: not true Apr 17 01:09:22 cpu and dsp are not the same part of hw Apr 17 01:09:28 so one can work while other is sleeping Apr 17 01:10:13 I don't know how autonomous the DSP is Apr 17 01:10:18 much Apr 17 01:10:22 so like I said ... maybe a bad assumption :-) Apr 17 01:11:00 i may be wrong, i'm not an expert Apr 17 01:11:10 but from what i have read it is like i have said Apr 17 01:11:11 :) Apr 17 01:13:44 is omweather (or whatever it is called) broken for anyone else? it will not update for me anymore Apr 17 01:16:22 http://www.slideshare.net/igor_stoppa_nokia/power-management-for-the-nokia-internet-tablets Apr 17 01:16:43 not much information, but still nice reading Apr 17 01:16:44 :) Apr 17 01:29:43 does nobody else use omweather? Apr 17 01:31:26 * WormFood sighs Apr 17 01:39:51 I'm off to work, I'll ask about this problem later....maybe the problem is with my internet connection Apr 17 02:07:32 silince, i kill you! Apr 17 02:07:38 (or was it 'silence') Apr 17 02:07:39 :) Apr 17 02:08:02 ha nice Apr 17 02:17:52 what is a DDI number? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 17 02:59:57 2008