**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 17 02:59:57 2008
Apr 17 03:16:10 <Proteous> hagalahgalahagla
Apr 17 03:30:59 <grape> aaah kde is downloading
Apr 17 03:31:06 <grape> its about time
Apr 17 03:55:22 <gnuSnob> looks like file manager doesn't have a way to access samba shares.. is that correct?
Apr 17 04:47:02 <|thunder> Yay, im on pidgin+n800
Apr 17 04:47:12 <shapr> yay!
Apr 17 04:47:31 <|thunder> This is a well populated chan it seems
Apr 17 04:47:43 <|thunder> This is splendid
Apr 17 04:47:50 * shapr enjoys splendidness
Apr 17 04:48:26 <|thunder> I want a woorking neogeo emu
Apr 17 04:48:48 <|thunder> I have it installed, but ca t find any roms that work.
Apr 17 04:51:58 * |thunder adores numpty physics
Apr 17 04:52:07 <shapr> Yeah, numpty rocks.
Apr 17 04:53:16 <|thunder> You get all the levels beat ??
Apr 17 04:53:29 <shapr> Nah, my job distracts me from that sort of thing.
Apr 17 04:54:02 <|thunder> Lol, there are only 5 or so
Apr 17 04:54:26 <|thunder> I like making trebuchets
Apr 17 04:57:57 <|thunder> So, what would it take to get the  n800's camera working with flash ??
Apr 17 04:58:13 <shapr> With flash?
Apr 17 04:58:16 <|thunder> I think it may use V4L
Apr 17 04:58:23 <shapr> Oh, you mean flash applets able to read the camera?
Apr 17 04:58:31 <|thunder> Yes
Apr 17 04:58:37 <|thunder> And ,  mic
Apr 17 04:58:45 <shapr> I have no idea.
Apr 17 04:58:46 <KotCzarny> v4l2 to be exact
Apr 17 04:58:56 <KotCzarny> v4l1 isn't enabled in kernel
Apr 17 04:59:18 <|thunder> For optomization i imagine.
Apr 17 04:59:36 <KotCzarny> don't know why
Apr 17 05:00:59 * |thunder wishes fennec was more stable,..
Apr 17 05:01:47 <|thunder> And on screen KB worked
Apr 17 05:08:02 <|thunder> Possible to change which bin is executed when i open the camera ??
Apr 17 05:31:08 <jga23> is there any way to change python to point to python2.5 in sandbox?
Apr 17 06:02:54 <lardman> morning
Apr 17 06:10:18 <mbuf> lardman, morning
Apr 17 06:10:28 <lardman> hi mbuf
Apr 17 06:21:56 <soman> Hi, I want to play internet radio using gstreamer on N810.. whats the command to initiate that
Apr 17 06:22:02 <soman> any pointers
Apr 17 06:23:08 <jga23> mplayer is probably easier
Apr 17 06:23:19 <jga23> it's just mplayer (url)
Apr 17 06:26:36 <soman> i want to play it from command line using gstreamer
Apr 17 06:28:24 <lardman> use a standard sort of chain, and see if there's something like an urlsource perhaps?
Apr 17 06:31:10 <kulve> soman: I'm sure how to parse the m3u playlist with gst plugins. Using http:// url instead file:// url should work just fine
Apr 17 06:31:21 <kulve> soman: +not
Apr 17 06:55:53 <jga23> mplayer works from command line as well :)
Apr 17 06:57:07 <lardman> bbl
Apr 17 07:09:49 <RST38h> in fact, it works better from command line
Apr 17 07:10:15 <RST38h> the UI is...mhm...underbaked
Apr 17 07:13:49 <Khertan> YEAH !
Apr 17 07:13:57 <Khertan> My packages was accepted !
Apr 17 07:14:25 <Khertan> PyPackager 0.7.0 is now able to upload packages to maemo repository
Apr 17 07:15:20 <Tama^2> that is pretty cool Khertan
Apr 17 07:18:37 <Khertan> thx tama^2
Apr 17 07:18:54 <Khertan> i just need to make now a documentation ...
Apr 17 07:19:39 <Khertan> as it s not a simple process as you need to have a gnugp with a key, ask permission to maemo repository maintainer site
Apr 17 07:31:50 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Apr 17 07:37:09 <soman> kulve, thanks for ur longstanding support.
Apr 17 07:38:16 <soman> kulve, one small clarification..  can i use "playbin" element for playing all types of media..
Apr 17 07:38:44 <soman> instead forming a different pipeline for each and every format....
Apr 17 07:39:10 <soman> kulve: what are the Pro's and Con's in using playbin
Apr 17 07:41:03 <pupnik> ty Khertan i'll definitely look at that
Apr 17 07:45:53 <kulve> soman: in theory the playbin works just fine. But afaik, there are bugs and it might not work in all cases
Apr 17 07:46:06 <kulve> but often you should be just fine with it
Apr 17 08:01:39 <Khertan> pupnik > look at what ? PyPackager ?
Apr 17 08:01:53 <pupnik> yes
Apr 17 08:02:11 <Khertan> i ve made it mainly to do packages onboard :)
Apr 17 08:02:26 <Khertan> very usefull :)
Apr 17 08:02:52 <Khertan> (for me at least)
Apr 17 08:15:59 <X-Fade_> Khertan: So you finally did it? It works? :)
Apr 17 08:17:41 <Khertan> yes it s works !
Apr 17 08:17:53 <Khertan> and again thanks a lot !
Apr 17 08:17:57 <X-Fade_> Nice!
Apr 17 08:18:44 <Khertan> i ve uploaded homeip, homememfree, homememstats,homewifilevel,homediskfree,homecpu,pypackager and pygtkeditor ...
Apr 17 08:18:54 <Khertan> and all seem's to work.
Apr 17 08:19:14 <Khertan> now i need to make a documentation about how to upload packages with pypackager
Apr 17 08:20:02 <X-Fade_> Ok, well it seems that all your work seems to pay off.
Apr 17 08:20:52 <X-Fade_> Perhaps you can add a list of categories where the developer needs to pick one from?
Apr 17 08:21:10 <Khertan> yes it will be a great idea
Apr 17 08:21:33 <Khertan> X-Fade_ > work always pay ... just a question of time
Apr 17 08:21:42 <X-Fade_> You have put some of your packages under 'other', which is basically the worst category :)
Apr 17 08:22:57 <X-Fade_> I'm thinking about establishing a list with valid categories defined by the community. And rejecting everything that is outside of those categories.
Apr 17 08:23:24 <GeneralAntilles> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Apr 17 08:23:38 <Khertan> X-Fade_ > great idea too
Apr 17 08:23:42 <X-Fade_> Khertan: Your packages need 'desktop' which doesn't seem to be there :)
Apr 17 08:23:47 <GeneralAntilles> Can you please tell the Boingo guys to go die in a fire? :P
Apr 17 08:23:59 <X-Fade_> And Canola did it too.
Apr 17 08:24:04 <Khertan> hildondesktop ... it s in extras-devel
Apr 17 08:24:28 <X-Fade_> Khertan: Well, that is not a general category..
Apr 17 08:24:46 <Khertan> ah ... your are talking about that ... yes ...
Apr 17 08:25:03 <X-Fade_> I would think things like games, communication, desktop etc. would be good..
Apr 17 08:25:03 <Khertan> next packages will something better than 'other'
Apr 17 08:25:08 <GeneralAntilles> Hopefully all categories will rely on as little abbreviation as possible and be capitalized.
Apr 17 08:25:41 <X-Fade_> GeneralAntilles: I think we can base those off the Debian list..
Apr 17 08:25:46 <Khertan> X-Fade_ > sorry for the category, i was so happy that i ven't recheck my pkb files ...
Apr 17 08:25:51 <GeneralAntilles> utilities, Utilities, utils . . . <_<
Apr 17 08:25:53 <Khertan> before uploading
Apr 17 08:26:08 <GeneralAntilles> That sounds reasonable, X-Fade_. :D
Apr 17 08:28:05 <X-Fade_> admin, base, comm, contrib, devel, doc, editors, electronics, embedded, games, gnome, graphics, hamradio, interpreters, kde, libs, libdevel, mail, math, misc, net, news, non-free, oldlibs, otherosfs, perl, python, science, shells, sound, tex, text, utils, web, x11
Apr 17 08:28:12 <X-Fade_> That is the debian list..
Apr 17 08:28:22 <GeneralAntilles> Now that I'm thinking about actually being able to use packages categories in Application manager, it seems to have a horrifyingly wasteful amount of whitespace. :\
Apr 17 08:28:25 <X-Fade_> Where we can remove some..
Apr 17 08:28:29 <Khertan> can we have a catogery 'ThingsThatWillSlowDownYourNIT' with canola in it ... :)
Apr 17 08:28:40 <GeneralAntilles> ?
Apr 17 08:28:43 <X-Fade_> :)
Apr 17 08:28:43 <GeneralAntilles> Only if it's open.
Apr 17 08:28:45 <AD-N770> bon dia / good morning
Apr 17 08:28:59 <Khertan> GeneralAntilles > it s only if it s open in the version 2 ?
Apr 17 08:29:19 <Khertan> in the first one the daemon was terrible ...
Apr 17 08:29:30 <GeneralAntilles> Version 2 only scans on startup.
Apr 17 08:30:43 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade_, those categories aren't the most . . . user friendly. So if you move the packages to that (which I'm for, as it doesn't break with Debian), application manager's category list is going to become both more and less usable.
Apr 17 08:30:52 <GeneralAntilles> Especially for the uninitiated types.
Apr 17 08:31:23 <X-Fade_> GeneralAntilles: Yeah, so we could do the switch for Diablo.. (If we have time enough)
Apr 17 08:31:36 <GeneralAntilles> Should that be something that might be considered being rectified application-side?
Apr 17 08:31:37 <Khertan> i always use the button 'All'
Apr 17 08:31:42 <X-Fade_> I don't think we can do it for current repositories..
Apr 17 08:32:01 <GeneralAntilles> comm -> Communications
Apr 17 08:32:12 <GeneralAntilles> Actually package category and display name.
Apr 17 08:32:21 <GeneralAntilles> s/Actually/Actual/
Apr 17 08:32:23 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Actual package category and display name.
Apr 17 08:32:24 <X-Fade_> GeneralAntilles: Yeah, we could make that a bit more userfriendly..
Apr 17 08:33:25 <GeneralAntilles> Do I want to file an enhancement request for a grid-listing of the categories in Application manager?
Apr 17 08:33:38 <X-Fade_> But I don't think we would be able to get that into Application Manager before diablo..
Apr 17 08:34:07 <X-Fade_> This all needs to be translated too, so that will take time..
Apr 17 08:34:17 <X-Fade_> And needs to be accepted as an idea first :)
Apr 17 08:34:21 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Apr 17 08:34:27 <GeneralAntilles> It's something that needs to happen any way you look at it.
Apr 17 08:34:44 <GeneralAntilles> As it stands, the categories are 100% useless from a user's perspective.
Apr 17 08:34:53 <X-Fade_> Yep. I will talk to Marius about this.
Apr 17 08:35:16 <X-Fade_> Let's see if he has thought about that already.
Apr 17 08:36:20 <GeneralAntilles> Establishing a guideline should eventually kick some of the third party repositories into better shape, too.
Apr 17 08:37:20 <X-Fade_> GeneralAntilles: Yep, we need more defined guidelines. And I could even create a package checker or something like that..
Apr 17 08:37:32 <GeneralAntilles> Ooh
Apr 17 08:37:35 <GeneralAntilles> I like that one.
Apr 17 08:37:51 <GeneralAntilles> A maemo-badger package verifier would be a fantastic idea.
Apr 17 08:38:00 <GeneralAntilles> s/badger/badged/
Apr 17 08:38:00 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: A maemo-badged package verifier would be a fantastic idea.
Apr 17 08:38:00 <X-Fade_> I have already something in place to check some packages on upload. That is what gave Khertan a hard time ;)
Apr 17 08:38:20 <X-Fade_> He has been testing the assistant..
Apr 17 08:38:21 <GeneralAntilles> Something that takes some of the guesswork out of it before it hits the other side would be good, too, though.
Apr 17 08:38:34 <GeneralAntilles> Saves the back and forth.
Apr 17 08:39:12 <X-Fade_> Yeah, I have been working on that. But repositories and packages are hard ;) So it takes time..
Apr 17 08:39:34 <GeneralAntilles> No complaints here, I'm overjoyed we have you over there. :D
Apr 17 08:39:42 <X-Fade_> You can make soo many mistakes and there need to be checks for that..
Apr 17 08:43:32 <Khertan> i confirm that many mistakes can be done ... :)
Apr 17 08:47:49 <soman> kulve: how to play  .pls file with gst-launch
Apr 17 08:48:47 <kulve> soman: like I said, I don't know if there's a gst plugin for parsing it..
Apr 17 08:49:23 <kulve> maybe you should parse it first, then run gst-launch for each line
Apr 17 08:50:43 <soman> kulve, ok.. i will try
Apr 17 08:59:48 <GeneralAntilles> Here's a convenience increaser: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=170958#post170958
Apr 17 09:00:00 <qwerty12> Thanks :)
Apr 17 09:00:41 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody should put together a page with all the hacked open-source Nokia software.
Apr 17 09:00:45 <GeneralAntilles> Application manager, xterm, etc.
Apr 17 09:01:09 <GeneralAntilles> Does the post-inst nuke the package list?
Apr 17 09:01:14 <X-Fade_> Hehe, please file a feature request for 'Don't show this warning for future installations'
Apr 17 09:01:23 <GeneralAntilles> Hasn't it already been filed?
Apr 17 09:01:32 <GeneralAntilles> I know there's no way they'll change that.
Apr 17 09:01:48 <GeneralAntilles> The legal department would have a hissy.
Apr 17 09:01:50 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, No idea, I'll take a look. I just commented out the lines that call the legal message and did a make deb.
Apr 17 09:02:13 <X-Fade_> Well, I don't think it would be a problem. As the user does an action do disable it.
Apr 17 09:02:21 <X-Fade_> It is on by default.
Apr 17 09:02:48 <GeneralAntilles> I remember it coming up a couple times before.
Apr 17 09:03:01 <GeneralAntilles> Don't recall exactly who shot it down
Apr 17 09:03:06 <X-Fade_> You can also do a red-pill switch. Which will breack your device..
Apr 17 09:03:13 <X-Fade_> And that got it nicely..
Apr 17 09:03:29 <GeneralAntilles> Oh well, a request couldn't hurt.
Apr 17 09:21:32 <Khertan> http://maemo.org/profile/list/
Apr 17 09:21:42 <Khertan> ouch i'm in the top of the list
Apr 17 09:21:59 <qwerty12> Nice, 464 Karma :)
Apr 17 09:22:25 <qwerty12> I'm somewhere at the end, I'm looking...
Apr 17 09:22:26 <Khertan> buries  	4
Apr 17 09:22:26 <Khertan> favourites 	1.5
Apr 17 09:22:28 <Khertan> huhu :)
Apr 17 09:23:47 <GeneralAntilles> Ouch, only 60 karma.
Apr 17 09:26:06 <pupnik> can anyone http view or ping piratpartiet.se? (87.96.134.22 here)
Apr 17 09:26:07 <pupnik> and give me the IP that it resolves?
Apr 17 09:26:14 <mbuf> qt doesn't work on Maemo platform; or are there separate images that can be used with the N800?
Apr 17 09:26:16 <pupnik> appears to be blocked by my isp
Apr 17 09:26:32 <KotCzarny> piratpartiet.se has address 87.96.134.22
Apr 17 09:26:42 <KotCzarny> (i'm using opendns)
Apr 17 09:27:25 <pupnik> ty!
Apr 17 09:27:36 <qwerty12> pupnik, Fighting for TPB? :P
Apr 17 09:27:39 <pupnik> that's funny
Apr 17 09:28:01 <pupnik> it's a political party in sweden.  blocked now by germany?  or by my isp?  hillarious
Apr 17 09:28:19 <pupnik> i'll have to mirror and host their site now.
Apr 17 09:30:19 <qwerty12> Hehe, the only Swedish words I know are Hej and Kock
Apr 17 09:33:12 <pupnik> ok this works for me http://www.piratpartiet.se/international/english
Apr 17 09:33:58 <pupnik> but google apparently removed the video of the lecture Rickard Falkvinge gave *at google*!  haaahahaha
Apr 17 09:34:43 <pupnik> ahh no i just searched wrong sorry
Apr 17 09:35:34 <pupnik> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2541736281918823479
Apr 17 09:35:39 <pupnik> ignore me :) too much tea today
Apr 17 09:37:08 <GeneralAntilles> How do you link to an attachment in a comment in bugzilla?
Apr 17 09:47:38 <sp3000> attachment nnnnn
Apr 17 09:48:54 <GeneralAntilles> Excellent, thanks!
Apr 17 09:53:10 <florian> good morning
Apr 17 09:56:47 <Jaffa> X-Fade: good suggestions, will reply problem when I sort out a) migraine, b) mess at work
Apr 17 09:59:28 <liri> guys
Apr 17 10:00:08 <liri> could someone with an N810 check an online mapping site? I'd like to know if it's compatible with the GPS software to decide whether to get the N810 or N800
Apr 17 10:01:22 <GeneralAntilles> I don't understand the question, liri.
Apr 17 10:01:37 <GeneralAntilles> Websites don't access the GPS.
Apr 17 10:02:03 <liri> I'm talking about the maemo-mapper, the software that can work with online map sites like GoogleMaps
Apr 17 10:02:21 <GeneralAntilles> Maemo Mapper works with Open Street, Google, Virtual Earth, Yahoo, and custom maps (i.e. USGS topo)
Apr 17 10:02:32 <liri> ok then
Apr 17 10:02:50 <liri> there's a website like Open Street for my country at the address: freemap.co.il
Apr 17 10:03:04 <liri> I have no way to test if it's compatible before buying the N810
Apr 17 10:03:14 <liri> I'd appreciate if someone could give it a try and let me know if it's working or not
Apr 17 10:03:23 <MangoFusion> you could run it in that qemu mod ;)
Apr 17 10:03:28 <GeneralAntilles> It all depends on the URL format.
Apr 17 10:03:56 <GeneralAntilles> Maemo Mapper just inserts coordinates for lat/long at certain variables in the URL to get the maps from the server.
Apr 17 10:03:59 <qwerty12> Just out of question, which version of qemu does that patch apply against?
Apr 17 10:04:36 <liri> hmmm
Apr 17 10:04:38 <liri> I see
Apr 17 10:04:53 <liri> so maemo mapper works with the lat/lan of the google style?
Apr 17 10:05:21 <liri> I'm wondering how does it know to send the lan/lan format for the different websites like GoogleMaps, Yahoo or others because I assume they are different
Apr 17 10:05:39 <GeneralAntilles> You tell it the format.
Apr 17 10:05:49 <liri> ahh ok
Apr 17 10:05:59 <liri> so it's all really a matter of url formatting then?
Apr 17 10:06:14 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
Apr 17 10:06:50 <GeneralAntilles> For instance: http://mt.google.com/mt?x=%d&y=%d&zoom=%d
Apr 17 10:08:01 <GeneralAntilles> or for Virtual Earth Sat: http://a0.orthor.tiles.virtualearth.net/tiles/a%0s.jpeg?g=50
Apr 17 10:08:36 <GeneralAntilles> It's open source, so adding support wouldn't be particularly difficult if it came down to it.
Apr 17 10:11:13 <liri> ok so I went to freemap.co.il and entered a city/street name and looked at wireshark for the traffic and I see that it sends a post with the city/street variables
Apr 17 10:11:21 <liri> how would I be able to check support for lat/lon?
Apr 17 10:26:58 <cy3o3> sup peeps
Apr 17 10:34:26 <Cptnodegard> got my smartcable :D
Apr 17 10:42:11 <qwerty12> You know like in Chinook, the input method is called hildon-input-method. What was the name of the input method in Bora?
Apr 17 10:49:44 <Cptnodegard> http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/smartcable1.jpg
Apr 17 10:49:45 <Cptnodegard> http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/smartcable2.jpg
Apr 17 10:52:55 <lardman> X-Fade: regarding your post of a few minutes ago, does the debian system support multilevel package categories (obviously it does to some extent with the user prefix)?
Apr 17 10:55:37 <lardman> e.g. rather than user/Ringtones use something like user/multimedia/Ringtones
Apr 17 10:58:06 <hrw> guys: does someone know how to dump XKB keymap from running system?
Apr 17 10:58:23 <hrw> lardman: Debian use one section and many tags
Apr 17 10:59:07 <lardman> hrw: is there a reason for that do you know?
Apr 17 10:59:38 <lardman> easier to see the sections at first glance, but then using a deeper tree structure should be more manageable (I think anyway)
Apr 17 11:01:11 <X-Fade> lardman: I don't know, I think it is already an extension..
Apr 17 11:01:42 <hrw> lardman: section allow to create easy lists
Apr 17 11:01:43 <X-Fade> And I don't think we have that many applications to have such a big tree..
Apr 17 11:01:54 <hrw> lardman: tags allow to create complex trees
Apr 17 11:02:54 <lardman> I dislike the presentation in the application manager, I'd prefer to have a tree-like structure, rather than lots of random categories (e.g. ringtones, Instant_messaging_protocols, etc. ;) ). Too much information imo
Apr 17 11:03:03 <hrw> X-Fade: if I will provide packages NOT built with scratchbox will they be available in extras?
Apr 17 11:03:21 <lardman> hrw: hear hear
Apr 17 11:03:26 <X-Fade> hrw: Sure, if the package is somewhat valid :)
Apr 17 11:03:43 <hrw> X-Fade: what it if will be without debian style sources?
Apr 17 11:03:44 <X-Fade> hrw: pypackager doesn't use scratchbox either..
Apr 17 11:04:20 <GeneralAntilles> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3103 Please shoot down any of my ideas if they're stupid. :D
Apr 17 11:04:32 <X-Fade> hrw: That will be a nice community discussion topic?
Apr 17 11:04:39 <X-Fade> hrw: Do we want sources or not..
Apr 17 11:04:58 <lardman> fundamentally yes I would say
Apr 17 11:05:09 <hrw> X-Fade: you should want sources
Apr 17 11:05:14 <lardman> though for that we need to specify a build system too
Apr 17 11:05:18 <jott> we should encourage source packages
Apr 17 11:05:28 <hrw> X-Fade: I can provide sources but they will be standard upstream one
Apr 17 11:05:54 <hrw> I do not remember how good are OE generated Debian source packages
Apr 17 11:05:54 <X-Fade> hrw: That is what debian does, but they also have a diff.
Apr 17 11:06:14 <jott> and is it really necessary to change the debian categories and tag system?
Apr 17 11:06:22 <hrw> X-Fade: I use Debian for ~6 years
Apr 17 11:06:40 <hrw> X-Fade: and planned to be DD
Apr 17 11:07:03 <X-Fade> jott: Hamradio?
Apr 17 11:07:32 <jott> i see no real point in user/* - there might be a set of user visible categories (or rather hidden ones)
Apr 17 11:07:37 <X-Fade> jott: I think we just need proper categories, I don't mind much how we do it..
Apr 17 11:07:41 <jott> to be used in the application manager
Apr 17 11:07:58 <X-Fade> A 'Canola' category is bad, imho..
Apr 17 11:08:10 <jott> well using debian ones would allow sane backporting of debian packages without big effort
Apr 17 11:08:25 <lardman> jott: as it says in the posts to the list, to hide the underlying OS packages, which shouldn't be removed
Apr 17 11:08:26 <X-Fade> jott: There is something to say for that.
Apr 17 11:09:08 <lardman> Does changing one line in debian/control (iirc) information really produce a lot of work?
Apr 17 11:09:16 <jott> lardman: that's why the application manager could have whitelist or better blacklist of categories
Apr 17 11:09:49 <lardman> yes, but if you want a user installable daemon, you need to expose that category. Then you'd need a package black/whitelist rather than category one
Apr 17 11:09:56 <X-Fade> jott: Or we could translate debian->maemo categories.
Apr 17 11:10:21 <X-Fade> Just shooting ideas here. No real plans..
Apr 17 11:10:53 <X-Fade> I just want to get the discussion started, so we can finally fix the mess. (One bit at a time)
Apr 17 11:10:54 <jott> lardman: well its basically the question if daemons should be end-user installable i suppose
Apr 17 11:11:12 <X-Fade> Shouldn't they be dependencies?
Apr 17 11:11:17 <lardman> and there will always be the case that you need to install something of that nature
Apr 17 11:11:34 <X-Fade> But what about sshd for example?
Apr 17 11:11:46 <jott> lardman: well in those border cases you could also provide a meta package in a user installable category
Apr 17 11:12:03 <X-Fade> For a crawler that is part of canola it is easy, but for separate daemons..
Apr 17 11:12:12 <lardman> jott: yes, agreed
Apr 17 11:12:40 <lardman> X-Fade: jott has a point there; users don't need to install daemons unless they are to be used for something
Apr 17 11:12:57 <lardman> and that something will hopefully install the daemon, etc.
Apr 17 11:13:00 <X-Fade> lardman: What if I want to ssh into my device?
Apr 17 11:13:10 <X-Fade> I would need to install sshd.
Apr 17 11:13:26 <lardman> I consider that to be essential, should come pre-installed ;)
Apr 17 11:13:31 <X-Fade> heh.
Apr 17 11:13:32 <jott> X-Fade: see above. very few packages need to have a metapackage then.
Apr 17 11:13:54 <lardman> where would an sshd metapackage live though?
Apr 17 11:13:58 <lardman> which category?
Apr 17 11:14:05 <jott> and i suppose there have to be some special categories for maemo that are not in debian
Apr 17 11:14:17 <X-Fade> jott: Yeah, we need to keep the amount of deamons down. As they can kill your battery.
Apr 17 11:17:35 <jott> actually openssh is in "net" in debian - so it's might be in a category that is visible anyway ..
Apr 17 11:18:15 <jott> but i agree that openssh should be preinstalled anyway (might be deactivated per default)
Apr 17 11:18:47 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: I really like your mockups!
Apr 17 11:19:00 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks! :)
Apr 17 11:19:08 <X-Fade> They make a lot more sense than what we have now :)
Apr 17 11:19:36 <GeneralAntilles> The grid-view seems like it'd at least be a trivial change.
Apr 17 11:19:57 <X-Fade> Yeah, that one should not be that hard.
Apr 17 11:20:53 <jott> ok bbiab...
Apr 17 11:21:30 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Can you please post that to -developers as a separate thread?
Apr 17 11:21:45 <X-Fade> Nokia suits are reading that list, you know :)
Apr 17 11:26:59 <hrw> question about FIASCO images I have
Apr 17 11:27:22 <Jaffa> There was talk of the AM having a tag cloud (years ago, never seemed to go anywhere)
Apr 17 11:27:23 * lardman still wonders who named that format
Apr 17 11:27:31 <hrw> does someone know how MTD "config" partition is generated?
Apr 17 11:27:52 <X-Fade> bbiab
Apr 17 11:28:02 <GeneralAntilles> What does FIASCO stand for, anyway?
Apr 17 11:29:07 <lcdd> are you sure it's an acronym
Apr 17 11:29:58 <GeneralAntilles> Do you have a better answer? :P
Apr 17 11:30:33 <hrw> maybe it summary their attempt to create OS upgradable with packages?
Apr 17 11:31:26 <lardman> Almost as unfortunate as the nearly named Rolls Royce Silver Mist (not so good in German)
Apr 17 11:33:16 <gpd> Trying to install canola2 but stuck with beta1 version in application manager despite following 'instructions' for setup - why not showing beta8?
Apr 17 11:35:10 <jeddy3> gpd, for me it's application manager is showing beta8
Apr 17 11:39:15 <gpd> jeddy3: can you tell me what repositories you have? i think i must have a conflict in there somewhere.
Apr 17 11:40:46 <jeddy3> nokia, nokia (third party), uppdates, maemo extras, maemo hackers
Apr 17 11:40:51 <Cptnodegard> because you did update the lst right? :3
Apr 17 11:43:38 <gpd> ok - when i remove all catalogues canola2 goes away.  if i add back maemo extras free non-free and update then i see canola2-beta1
Apr 17 11:44:46 <gpd> exceptthe extras doesn't mention chinook - just repository.maemo.org/extras ... maybe that is it.
Apr 17 11:45:26 <GeneralAntilles> It defaults to your current version of the distribution field is blank (i.e. Chinook)
Apr 17 11:45:31 <GeneralAntilles> Have you refreshed the list?
Apr 17 11:45:47 <gpd> yes - very much refreshed
Apr 17 11:46:43 <gpd> lists download, refresh and show beta1 again...
Apr 17 11:48:32 <gpd> apt-cache show canola2: pool/chinook/free/c/canola2/canola_2.0.0~beta1
Apr 17 11:49:04 <hrw>      2.0.0~beta8-maemo1 0
Apr 17 11:49:04 <hrw>         500 http://repository.maemo.org chinook/free Packages
Apr 17 11:49:36 <gpd> so it isn't in extras then?
Apr 17 11:49:45 <lardman> Is extras enabled?
Apr 17 11:49:55 <lardman> As it comes disabled by default iirc
Apr 17 11:50:34 <gpd> no - i sweitch extras to disabled and canola2 goes away from the installable screen
Apr 17 11:50:41 <gpd> turn it on and it comes back with the beta1
Apr 17 11:51:06 <hrw> btw - does someone will clean maemo repositories to keep only latest versions?
Apr 17 11:51:26 <Jaffa> Hmm. Not read ITT for a couple of days, catching up now and struggling to find an actual useful or interesting thread not full of people being dumb.
Apr 17 11:51:37 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, sad, isn't it?
Apr 17 11:52:10 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: you have more patience than me (and, admittedly I'm in a bad mood today since not feeling well)
Apr 17 11:52:44 <GeneralAntilles> Nah, I just let off a little steam now and then by being an ass. :D
Apr 17 11:52:55 <Jaffa> :)
Apr 17 11:53:20 <GeneralAntilles> Which always seems to devolve into 30-page long threads full of stupid bickering. :<
Apr 17 11:54:07 <lardman> I'm waiting for a response to this thread: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19178
Apr 17 11:54:51 <GeneralAntilles> I'm gonna hazard that the people that can answer that question either don't read ITT or aren't permitted to answer.
Apr 17 11:55:12 <gpd> ok- purged any sign of canola1-beta
Apr 17 11:55:22 <lardman> ah, my point was that if people want to do something about it then we can get cracking, but I don't want to go it alone
Apr 17 11:55:30 <gpd> canola2-beta1 even -- now it has just downloaded beta1 again and is installing it!
Apr 17 11:56:14 <gpd> Get:1 HTTP://repository.marmo.org chinook/free canola2 2.0.0~beta1-maemo.1 [3303kB]
Apr 17 11:56:28 <gpd> WTF!?
Apr 17 11:57:58 <lardman> slightly different format to the names in there http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/c/canola2/
Apr 17 11:58:26 <lardman> though I don't know how the choice is made
Apr 17 11:58:58 <gpd> well the only one that appears is beta1 for me... must be a bug. :(
Apr 17 11:59:14 <gpd> been like this since beta2--- clearly nobody cares or I am doing something a weird way
Apr 17 11:59:41 <lardman> does the app mgr only show the latest version? If so perhaps the extra . is screwing up the ordering?
Apr 17 12:00:09 <wnd> erm, does canola2-cleanup help? (quite honestly I don't even know what it does)
Apr 17 12:00:16 <gpd> not just app manager because apt-cache show does the same - shows beta1 only
Apr 17 12:00:52 <wnd> actually, nevermind, canola cannot possibly do anything like that to mess up with dpkg
Apr 17 12:01:37 <gpd> HOLD THE PHONE>...
Apr 17 12:01:55 <gpd> i still have the repository redirection .deb from when they were all messed up i think?
Apr 17 12:02:02 <gpd> or some other weirdness
Apr 17 12:02:26 <gpd> because when i go to repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/c/canola2 in my tablet browswer i only se beta1
Apr 17 12:02:36 <gpd> but when i go on my laptop via the same network i see all the others too...
Apr 17 12:03:17 <gpd> hmm /etc/hosts shows repository.maemo.org pointing to 66.33.212.254
Apr 17 12:04:20 <gpd> this may explain a lot...
Apr 17 12:08:02 <GeneralAntilles> You're doing something a weird way, gpd. ;)
Apr 17 12:08:47 <gpd> can anyone remember what the package was called that did that repository fix?
Apr 17 12:09:01 <jku> "fix"
Apr 17 12:10:40 <RST38h> how long does it usually take for a package to appear in extras?
Apr 17 12:11:51 <Jaffa> gpd: there were a number of packages at the time. do a dpkg -S /etc/hosts
Apr 17 12:12:01 <Jaffa> Although it was added using postinst, so that won't help
Apr 17 12:12:55 <WormFood> jesus fuckin' christ! what the fuck is wrong with this god damn piece of shit n800! Every fuckin' time I turn around something else does not work....now I get an IP address, but DNS does not resolve! is this more fuckin' problems with the suck ass piece of shit dhcp client? I never had these problems before.
Apr 17 12:13:15 <GeneralAntilles> Dude, return it and STFU.
Apr 17 12:13:44 <aquatix> someone is annoyed :)
Apr 17 12:13:58 <WormFood> where do I take it to, to return it?
Apr 17 12:13:59 <aquatix> WormFood: tried starting from scratch?
Apr 17 12:14:06 <WormFood> yes, I rebooted
Apr 17 12:14:27 <aquatix> well, was more talking about reflashing it or something
Apr 17 12:14:28 <WormFood>  etc/resolv.conf is pointing to 192.168.1.1
Apr 17 12:14:37 <aquatix> kinda radical, but still, if you have so many troubles
Apr 17 12:14:40 <kulve> WormFood: maybe the issue is with your AP and not with the device..?
Apr 17 12:14:40 <WormFood> I just reflashed it recently
Apr 17 12:14:49 <WormFood> the AP works fine
Apr 17 12:14:56 <kulve> but of course it does
Apr 17 12:15:04 <WormFood> kulve, I just rebooted the AP, never had problems with it before
Apr 17 12:15:27 <RST38h> Maybe the DNS is down?
Apr 17 12:15:33 <WormFood> I mean, I get the normal dhcp problems, but not this time....connected and dhcp'ed an ip address just fine
Apr 17 12:15:52 <WormFood> no, god damn resolv.conf is pointing to nowhere (192.168.1.1, which is not on my network)
Apr 17 12:16:57 <RST38h> Set it to 127.0.0.1
Apr 17 12:17:03 <WormFood> if I could return it and get my money back, I would, but that is not an option at this time
Apr 17 12:17:04 <RST38h> This is what it points to on my machine
Apr 17 12:17:17 <Cptnodegard> sell it and get an iphone
Apr 17 12:17:41 <WormFood> what the fuck would I do with an iphone? I'm not gay!
Apr 17 12:17:43 <Cptnodegard> then you can whine on ilounge instead
Apr 17 12:18:00 <WormFood> I'm not whining, I'm bitching! :P
Apr 17 12:18:37 <WormFood> I'm sure I'm not the only one with this particular problem
Apr 17 12:19:03 <RST38h> bitching is gay.
Apr 17 12:19:22 <WormFood> you're gay RST38h!
Apr 17 12:19:32 * aquatix waits for the nazi's
Apr 17 12:19:34 * RST38h cackles evilly
Apr 17 12:19:59 <aquatix> WormFood: tried setting resolv.conf to use 127.0.0.1 yet?
Apr 17 12:20:05 <GeneralAntilles> <faux-german accent>Your papers are not in order, aquatix.</faux-german accent>
Apr 17 12:20:32 * aquatix grabs his Doctor Who psychic paper and waves it in front of GeneralAntilles 
Apr 17 12:21:40 <Jaffa> WormFood: are you, like, 12 or something?
Apr 17 12:21:40 <trickie_> WormFood: how did resolv.conf get set to 192.168.1.1 in the first place then?
Apr 17 12:21:44 <trickie_> are you using a vpn client?
Apr 17 12:22:20 <WormFood> no, I'm not using a vpn client
Apr 17 12:22:31 <WormFood> I have no fuckin' clue how it got set to that
Apr 17 12:22:38 <WormFood> I NEVER had dns problems with this in the past
Apr 17 12:22:49 <jku> Wormfood, I have no ide how resolv.conf could get like that unless you edited it -- the OS uses dnsmasq usually so 127.0.0.1 is correct
Apr 17 12:23:18 <WormFood> I've had dhcp problems, but never has it gotten an IP, and not gotten dns
Apr 17 12:23:33 <WormFood> I did not edit resolv.conf
Apr 17 12:24:07 <RST38h> 192.168.1.1 is a gay address.
Apr 17 12:24:46 <aquatix> please stop calling everything gay, that's gay
Apr 17 12:25:00 <WormFood> I know how it got set to 192.168.1.1
Apr 17 12:25:05 <WormFood> the fuckin' software is broken
Apr 17 12:25:10 <aquatix> WormFood: but did you try to set it to localhost yet?
Apr 17 12:25:10 <GeneralAntilles> ur ghey!!!!!!!!!!!
Apr 17 12:25:10 <RST38h> It's *jolly* gay.
Apr 17 12:25:17 <WormFood> this is how....
Apr 17 12:25:19 <Cptnodegard> you got a demon in your IT. try an exorcist
Apr 17 12:25:30 <GeneralAntilles> Douse it in holy water.
Apr 17 12:25:33 <WormFood> for some stupid reason, dhcp is broken with one particular AP I use
Apr 17 12:25:38 <pierlux> it is also level DH0 in http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
Apr 17 12:25:42 <WormFood> so I manually set dns and IP
Apr 17 12:25:55 <WormFood> I manually set it through the GUI, not the command line
Apr 17 12:26:09 <Cptnodegard> get holywater.deb from the sacred rep
Apr 17 12:26:18 <WormFood> the other AP I use is configured to set dns to 192.168.1.1
Apr 17 12:26:31 <WormFood> why the fuck does not not set it properly now?
Apr 17 12:26:37 <RST38h> So, that OTHER AP is gay.
Apr 17 12:26:44 <WormFood> no
Apr 17 12:26:57 <WormFood> the dhcp client on the n800 is a heaping pile of steaming shit!
Apr 17 12:27:01 <WormFood> I had to work around it
Apr 17 12:27:09 <WormFood> because it would never get an IP for me
Apr 17 12:27:20 <KotCzarny> yeah, buy an iphone
Apr 17 12:27:22 <RST38h> Probably a misconfiguration problem.
Apr 17 12:27:23 <WormFood> BUT, what I don't understand, is why did it work before?
Apr 17 12:27:26 <KotCzarny> and never go back to this channel
Apr 17 12:27:27 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 12:27:29 <tank-man> yea iphone rocks
Apr 17 12:27:38 <WormFood> I have not used that weird AP in a while, at least 2 weeks
Apr 17 12:27:38 <tank-man> no no, get a iphone clone
Apr 17 12:27:39 <RST38h> WormFood: Can I point your attention to something?
Apr 17 12:27:41 <tank-man> that rocks more
Apr 17 12:28:07 <WormFood> and I did use my AP now before, and it did work....so why in the fuck did it suddenly decide to cram its head up its ass?
Apr 17 12:28:26 <aquatix> tank-man: what rocks even more is to buy an iphone and grind it to dust in a blender before the eyes of some apple fanatics
Apr 17 12:28:40 <KotCzarny> because it's not for you
Apr 17 12:28:41 <WormFood> take it to #iphone
Apr 17 12:28:45 <tank-man> i think ive seen those on youtube
Apr 17 12:28:47 <GeneralAntilles> aquatix, that's just a waste of money. :P
Apr 17 12:28:48 <KotCzarny> you're not allowed to use n800
Apr 17 12:28:58 <RST38h> aquatix: Grinding apple fanatics into dust in front of other apple fanatics is waaay more fun
Apr 17 12:29:05 <KotCzarny> that's why it doesn't work
Apr 17 12:29:06 <aquatix> RST38h: good point ;)
Apr 17 12:29:11 <aquatix> GeneralAntilles: damn fun though ;)
Apr 17 12:29:14 <GeneralAntilles> Sounds messy, RST38h.
Apr 17 12:29:20 <aquatix> GeneralAntilles: but... Will it blend?
Apr 17 12:29:33 <RST38h> GA: That is what vacuum cleaners are for
Apr 17 12:29:36 <Cptnodegard> it. have your tried turning it off and on again?
Apr 17 12:29:38 <aquatix> RST38h: it might be found homicide by some people though
Apr 17 12:29:52 <RST38h> aquatix: The keyword is "some".
Apr 17 12:30:00 <aquatix> :)
Apr 17 12:30:10 <aquatix> ``apple fanatics aren't people'
Apr 17 12:30:21 <Cptnodegard> theyre sheep
Apr 17 12:30:38 <aquatix> sheepicide
Apr 17 12:30:40 <RST38h> Is feeding apple fanatics to Cthulhu a homicide, legally?
Apr 17 12:30:43 <aquatix> can live with that :)
Apr 17 12:31:00 <Cptnodegard> anti apple ftw
Apr 17 12:31:03 <aquatix> RST38h: no, that's buying yourself an extra day to live
Apr 17 12:36:46 <aquatix> ``Oh God... please don't let me die today! Tomorrow would be so much better!''
Apr 17 12:40:50 <WormFood> fuckin' amazing! I manually edit resolv.conf and change it to 127.0.0.1 and it works...reboot and it still works....absolutely amazing!
Apr 17 12:41:36 <WormFood> thanks for your help
Apr 17 12:41:44 <KotCzarny> (till the next dhcp request)
Apr 17 12:41:52 <WormFood> i rebooted
Apr 17 12:45:11 <Cptnodegard> IRC has a thank you feature like ITT. it's /part
Apr 17 12:45:32 <KotCzarny> wasn't it /disco ?
Apr 17 12:45:33 <GeneralAntilles> Hahaha
Apr 17 12:45:59 <KotCzarny> (to dance happily after all)
Apr 17 12:46:25 <WormFood> 哈哈哈....very funny
Apr 17 12:49:06 <aquatix> KotCzarny: nah, /disco gives you some nice colours
Apr 17 12:49:16 <KotCzarny> hum
Apr 17 12:49:25 <KotCzarny> i'm a techno cat
Apr 17 12:49:44 <KotCzarny> that's why i don't know much about disco
Apr 17 12:49:46 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 12:49:46 <aquatix>  /disco is nice once in a while though
Apr 17 12:52:24 <tank-man> let me try
Apr 17 12:52:41 <tank-man> disco :Unknown command
Apr 17 12:53:53 <aquatix> hm
Apr 17 13:03:13 <Cptnodegard> freenode is anal when it comes to irc commands
Apr 17 13:03:16 <Cptnodegard> doesnt support shit
Apr 17 13:03:20 <gpd> for the record - canola-beta8 installed :) was all about the 'fix' for the repositories: clearly
Apr 17 13:14:39 <Andy80> hi all
Apr 17 13:15:31 <Andy80> something happened to my Scratchbox installation: I'm using ubuntu 7.10 and Maemo SDK 4.0, starting /scratchbox/login I get this error: Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed!
Apr 17 13:15:33 <Andy80> how can I fix it?
Apr 17 13:15:45 <KotCzarny> disable vdso
Apr 17 13:16:44 <Andy80> how?
Apr 17 13:17:09 <KotCzarny> please, google, or read readme.txt
Apr 17 13:17:49 <KotCzarny> (or was it install.txt)
Apr 17 13:18:01 <Andy80> ok, I give a look at it...
Apr 17 13:18:22 <KotCzarny> but feeding google with: disable vdso, should be enough
Apr 17 13:20:00 <Andy80> yes, it's: echo 0 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled
Apr 17 13:20:02 <Andy80> found :)
Apr 17 13:20:09 <KotCzarny> see, you did it
Apr 17 13:20:11 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 13:20:27 <Andy80> anyway it's very strange! I didn't enable it... and Scratchbox worked fine until 2-3 days ago..
Apr 17 13:20:55 <KotCzarny> installator could have disabled it for you
Apr 17 13:21:16 <KotCzarny> then after reboot it went into default state
Apr 17 13:21:22 <KotCzarny> but i don't know
Apr 17 13:26:25 <Andy80> uhm... yes, something must have broke my Scratchbox installation! Even xephyr has some problems... I start it from a terminal with this command: Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -extension Composite, then into scratchbox I do: export DISPLAY=:2 and then I do af-sb-init.sh start, and I get this error: matchbox-wm: can't open display! check your DISPLAY variable.
Apr 17 13:26:25 <Andy80> Could not open display. Is the DISPLAY environment variable set?
Apr 17 13:26:46 <Andy80> even if the DISPLAY variable is set... I've checked it wuth echo $DISPLAY
Apr 17 13:27:14 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 17 13:33:13 <Andy80> uff :(
Apr 17 13:36:26 <RST38h> Just switch to SDK+ and SB2
Apr 17 13:36:45 <RST38h> Much smaller and easier to work with
Apr 17 13:37:39 <wnd> you mean sb2 is finally usable?
Apr 17 13:38:16 <Andy80> all my installation is very very broken, damn it! It cannot resolve hosts anymore!
Apr 17 13:38:19 <wnd> the last I checked it was possible to compile stuff, but for example pkg-config simply didn't work, nor did installing packages with dpkg
Apr 17 13:38:41 <Andy80> and I know it's a common issue I already fixed the first day I used it
Apr 17 13:40:45 <RST38h> wnd: I am using it, it is just fine
Apr 17 13:41:21 <RST38h> Always running stuff on the device rather than the dev machine though
Apr 17 13:42:45 <wnd> that's what I'm doing too. I'll have to give it another try one of these days. in addition to having better design, sb2 is actually supposed to work in 64-bit environment.
Apr 17 13:43:52 <tsavola> don't forget the x86-64 port of sb1 :)
Apr 17 13:44:22 <Jaffa> `setarch i386 ./maemo-installer.sh' works for me without sb2
Apr 17 13:44:59 <Andy80> ok, fuck that damn scratchbox! I re-install it from scratch!!!
Apr 17 13:45:01 <Andy80> ufff!!!
Apr 17 13:46:15 <aquatix> erm, what's SB2?
Apr 17 13:46:21 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, "Which, surprisingly, is possible! :-)" <- IT'S A TRAP!!
Apr 17 13:46:25 <tsavola> aquatix: scratchbox 2
Apr 17 13:46:26 <wnd> tsavola, you mean /that/ old port? I remember having a reason not to use it, but I can't seem to remember what it was.
Apr 17 13:46:40 <aquatix> tsavola: ah :)
Apr 17 13:46:44 <tsavola> wnd: i think there might be plenty of reasons not to use it
Apr 17 13:49:20 <RST38h> aquatix: google for MaemoSDK+
Apr 17 13:51:18 <aquatix> RST38h: ah, right
Apr 17 13:52:39 <RST38h> With SB1, the whole appsrc directory has to sit inside that "virtual fs" which is a royal pain
Apr 17 13:53:04 <RST38h> With SB2, I can keep the Maemo source at the same place where all the other stuff is (i.e. Windows NTFS partition)
Apr 17 13:53:19 <KotCzarny> ntfs? /me shrugs
Apr 17 13:53:56 <RST38h> Well, WinXP can't read extfs, so this is the only option
Apr 17 13:54:03 <KotCzarny> can't it?
Apr 17 13:54:12 <KotCzarny> google for ext2 ifs
Apr 17 13:54:51 <aquatix> yeah, it can nowadays :)
Apr 17 13:54:52 <tsavola> RST38h: that's least of the sb1 problems
Apr 17 13:55:06 <KotCzarny> nowadays is quite a long time ago
Apr 17 13:55:06 <MangoFusion> sb2? does it work on mac os?
Apr 17 13:55:09 <tsavola> RST38h: you can even avoid that with a bind-mount
Apr 17 13:55:51 <tsavola> MangoFusion: i think lle (the author) was trying to port it, but afair the mac dynamic linker is too weird for sb2 to work properly/easily
Apr 17 13:56:46 <RST38h> No, folks, I am *not* screwing up with the Linux install.
Apr 17 13:56:56 <KotCzarny> you're clueless
Apr 17 13:56:57 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 13:57:05 <RST38h> And prefer to stay this way
Apr 17 13:57:51 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: Indeed. Like I'd fall for that!
Apr 17 13:58:10 <Jaffa> Hmm. My N810's just randomly rebooted sat on my desk. Not seen that for a while.
Apr 17 13:58:21 <GeneralAntilles> I like random desktop crashes.
Apr 17 13:58:22 <aquatix> Jaffa: sorry
Apr 17 13:58:22 <GeneralAntilles> Those are fun.
Apr 17 13:58:28 <KotCzarny> attention wh*re
Apr 17 13:58:29 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 17 13:58:30 <aquatix> Jaffa: won't do it again
Apr 17 13:58:42 <aquatix> O:)
Apr 17 13:58:48 <KotCzarny> 'he didn't touched me for so long.. reboot!'
Apr 17 13:58:50 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 17 14:13:17 <lopz> hola
Apr 17 14:20:07 <pupnik> hey KotCzarny ever hear about any pageflip/vsync code that's working and not confusing or giant
Apr 17 14:20:12 <pupnik> mplayer svn is too big
Apr 17 14:21:18 <pupnik> if we could pixel double whole screen, and shift offset of framebuffer
Apr 17 14:21:24 <pupnik> then we could have hardware double-buffering
Apr 17 14:21:35 <pupnik> it's not rocket science, but i don't know if it's possible
Apr 17 14:21:49 <KotCzarny> i think you should ask lcuk
Apr 17 14:22:05 <KotCzarny> he did the vsynced algo
Apr 17 14:22:13 * pupnik ponders a suitable bribe
Apr 17 14:22:15 <KotCzarny> well, tearfree
Apr 17 14:22:31 <KotCzarny> but it can be considered equal to vsynced
Apr 17 14:22:32 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 14:22:37 <pupnik> I WANT
Apr 17 14:23:16 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 14:30:47 <pupnik> for python fans:  pyglet and cocos game library
Apr 17 14:30:53 <pupnik> http://groups.google.com/group/pyglet-users/web
Apr 17 15:03:51 <Navi> w //bu 9
Apr 17 15:03:55 <Navi> oops
Apr 17 15:04:03 <aquatix> that's an odd password
Apr 17 15:04:16 <qwerty12> lol
Apr 17 15:07:26 <Navi> /bu 6
Apr 17 15:07:32 <Navi> ffs
Apr 17 15:08:11 <lardman> derf: ping
Apr 17 15:09:54 <lardman> derf: no nasty questions, was just going to say thanks for your help yesterday and say that I've tracked the error back to the lengthlist being read in in vorbis_book_unpack()
Apr 17 15:10:13 <derf> lardman: Hooray.
Apr 17 15:10:18 <lardman> derf: so it's either the bitreading code, or it's a corrupt buffer from which the data are being read
Apr 17 15:10:19 <lardman> :)
Apr 17 15:11:26 <lardman> my bet is the corrupt buffer, so I'll have to hack a way of outputting large chunks of memory (rather than using dbg() for single values and running out of space in dmesg)
Apr 17 15:11:57 <KotCzarny> write to file then and run diff on it?
Apr 17 15:11:58 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 15:12:22 <lardman> yeah that's all well and good except that the semaphores are all setup to output decoded pcm data
Apr 17 15:12:40 <qwerty12> derf, I believe you are the author of acmonitor? The link for the acmonitor-0.1.tar.gz file doesn't work, so I wonder if you have a copy. Thanks.
Apr 17 15:14:00 <derf> "The" link?
Apr 17 15:14:02 <derf> http://www.guardiani.us/acmonitor_0.1_armel.deb
Apr 17 15:14:16 <derf> Oh, source code.
Apr 17 15:14:20 <qwerty12> No, the source :). I haven't tried it but I don't believe it works in Chinook.
Apr 17 15:14:22 <qwerty12> :)
Apr 17 15:14:54 <qwerty12> No worries, if you can't find it but I'm just interested if it is very easily available to you :)
Apr 17 15:14:58 <KotCzarny> lardman: syslog to network?
Apr 17 15:15:18 <lardman> KotCzarny: the buffers are on the DSP, so need to be transferred back to the ARM
Apr 17 15:15:26 <derf> http://people.xiph.org/~tterribe/acmonitor-0.1.tar.gz
Apr 17 15:15:33 <qwerty12> Thanks!
Apr 17 15:15:51 <lardman> KotCzarny: I might be able to do some shared memory trickery to avoid fiddling with the feed and receive code for the audio data...hmm
Apr 17 15:15:53 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 17 15:16:05 <KotCzarny> but dsp can access memory, right?
Apr 17 15:16:06 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 15:16:12 <lardman> yep
Apr 17 15:16:31 <KotCzarny> then just make a big buffer for dsp log
Apr 17 15:16:32 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 17 15:17:24 <lardman> the amount of debugging data will pretty quickly fill a buffer, so I'll have to block and make sure the ARM has had a chance to read it
Apr 17 15:18:07 <KotCzarny> but it's doable
Apr 17 15:18:24 <lardman> oh certainly, I was just hoping to not have to implement it!
Apr 17 15:18:34 <lardman> but I'm sure it will come in handy for other projects too
Apr 17 15:19:31 <KotCzarny> and you have compiler to help you :)
Apr 17 15:20:18 <lardman> not much code will run without one :)
Apr 17 15:24:00 <KotCzarny> well, you could writebinary code directly :)
Apr 17 15:24:24 <lardman> true
Apr 17 15:24:57 <KotCzarny> ok.. nap time
Apr 17 15:28:44 <K-Fox> hi
Apr 17 15:29:34 <K-Fox> where is a installing file of xchat  on (os 2007)?
Apr 17 15:30:05 <qwerty12> Hmm, I know it exists for OS2008 but I'm not sure about 07
Apr 17 15:30:58 <GeneralAntilles> K-Fox, it's in Extras on Bora.
Apr 17 15:31:27 <K-Fox> i dont know web address correctly
Apr 17 15:31:41 <GeneralAntilles> Application manager.
Apr 17 15:31:46 <GeneralAntilles> Add the Bora Extras repository.
Apr 17 15:31:53 <K-Fox> ok
Apr 17 15:33:10 <qwerty12> Maemo Hackers have a OS2006 build too.
Apr 17 15:45:32 <n810sven> Hi! I am trying to attach a bluetooth a2dp adapter to my n810. http://www.lintech.de/en/produkte/bluetooth_audio_adapter/bluelino_home.htm
Apr 17 15:45:52 <n810sven> I can pair it, but i can not find any menu or option to set up a link to it.
Apr 17 15:46:11 <qwerty12> A2DP isn't officially supported.
Apr 17 15:46:19 <lardman> setup alsa, then try running mplayer with the appropriate command line, or use ukmp for example
Apr 17 15:46:25 <qwerty12> Via a hack, it can be done but CPU usage is very high.
Apr 17 15:46:26 <n810sven> But HFP fallback should work i think
Apr 17 15:46:48 <lardman> qwerty12: it's not a hack, just that the CPU is used to both decode and re-encode the audio
Apr 17 15:47:19 <qwerty12> lardman, Fair enough. I just count it as one as it isn't official
Apr 17 15:47:34 <n810sven> i saw https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=667#c11 - but i stuck at "first, ensure you have your headset working with IT2008 ie bluetooth pairing
Apr 17 15:47:34 <n810sven> done and if you enable enabled, you get sound (crappy but you get it ;)"
Apr 17 15:47:36 <lardman> yeah, well that's certainly true
Apr 17 15:48:02 <lardman> n810sven: crappy sound? Due to cpufreq?
Apr 17 15:48:04 <n810sven> i dont know how to "enable enable" it
Apr 17 15:48:09 <n810sven> NO sound
Apr 17 15:48:14 <n810sven> No connection
Apr 17 15:48:23 <n810sven> just pairing
Apr 17 15:49:03 <lardman> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-12112.html
Apr 17 15:49:09 <lardman> scroll to the 4th from last post
Apr 17 15:49:50 <qwerty12> Wow, that's old. Johnx also has a nice deb too which does that.
Apr 17 15:50:10 <lardman> yeah, I was just going from the Google results
Apr 17 15:50:12 <qwerty12> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13468
Apr 17 15:50:16 <qwerty12> Ahh :)
Apr 17 15:50:46 <lardman> thanks for the link, I should really get my headset working again
Apr 17 15:51:19 <qwerty12> Np, I like using my Headset with xmms.
Apr 17 15:51:51 <lardman> do you disable cpufreq? I found some funny sounds using it on the n800 with os2007?
Apr 17 15:52:01 <qwerty12> I do
Apr 17 15:52:19 <qwerty12> But I use a modified version of linuxrebel's script to do it easily.
Apr 17 15:53:00 <qwerty12> I find the sound is ok but it can cut out for a few seconds.
Apr 17 15:54:45 <pupnik> Cool!  Ebay Nokia 770 demo device (used) on sale in Germany, only $270!!!
Apr 17 15:55:06 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Apr 17 15:55:19 <qwerty12> £135? I paid £180 for my N800 :P
Apr 17 15:55:27 <qwerty12> Although the 770 is demo.
Apr 17 15:55:30 <qwerty12> But still :P
Apr 17 15:55:59 <lardman> ebay is actually stupidly expensive for anything anyone might want
Apr 17 15:56:16 <derf> But it's so cheap for things nobody wants!
Apr 17 15:56:24 <lardman> I can't understand the whole £20 less than rrp, but it's 2nd hand!
Apr 17 15:56:51 <lardman> derf: so it pays to have unusual interests :)
Apr 17 15:57:23 <pupnik> well said
Apr 17 15:57:23 <hrw> is there good "car log" application for maemo?
Apr 17 15:57:41 <qwerty12> carman? Not sure though.
Apr 17 15:58:27 <hrw> qwerty12: by 'car log' I mean one which track repairs/costs/fuel, reminds about repairs etc
Apr 17 15:58:47 <qwerty12> hrw, Ah, now I feel stupid >.<
Apr 17 15:59:06 <lardman> hrw: not that I've heard of
Apr 17 15:59:12 <tank-man> theres many for palmos you can use
Apr 17 15:59:29 <tank-man> if you don't mind using the palm VM
Apr 17 15:59:34 <n810sven> i'll try getting it done tomorrow. thanks for the links
Apr 17 16:00:00 <lardman> tank-man: leaves a bad feeling (over poor power management) using an emulator
Apr 17 16:00:17 <lardman> tank-man: but if it's the only thing going then fair enough
Apr 17 16:00:24 <MangoFusion> i'd appreciate the palm os / garnet emulators more if they actually doubled the display size
Apr 17 16:00:25 <hrw> tank-man: using palmos app under garnet vm emu is not what I would like to
Apr 17 16:00:34 <hrw> tank-man: I have palmos devices at home
Apr 17 16:03:53 <qwerty12> hrw, https://garage.maemo.org/projects/fuelpad/ ?
Apr 17 16:05:46 <hrw> tx
Apr 17 16:05:48 <hrw> will look
Apr 17 16:06:21 <hrw> too bad that it is yet-another-app-which-is-not-in-any-feed
Apr 17 16:10:13 <K-Fox> the Bora Extras repository. what is webaddress?
Apr 17 16:10:54 <GeneralAntilles> Why are you on OS2007, anyway?
Apr 17 16:11:16 <K-Fox> ok
Apr 17 16:11:41 <K-Fox> because of evince
Apr 17 16:11:51 <qwerty12> You can get that on OS2008
Apr 17 16:12:30 <Anthon1> Hello, looking for advice on my application architecture.  I'm currently working on yet another todo / task manager that does A/B/C priorities and automatic promotion of priorities based on the due date.  I had initially plan to have a server module on that handled all database access that listened on the DBus.  An applet module that sits on the home screen, and a full UI where you can edit and create items.  Is using the DBus 
Apr 17 16:13:27 <K-Fox> evince have more good function than os2008
Apr 17 16:13:44 <GeneralAntilles> Evince is available for OS2008.
Apr 17 16:13:50 <GeneralAntilles> and has been for months and months.
Apr 17 16:18:36 <Anthon1> Wrong place to ask this type of question?  Or not enough information to determine a good suggestion?
Apr 17 16:19:25 <pupnik> question got cut-off Anthon1
Apr 17 16:19:38 <Anthon1> Ah.
Apr 17 16:19:39 <pupnik> " create items.  Is using the Dbus" ...
Apr 17 16:19:40 <hrw> bye
Apr 17 16:19:43 <pupnik> cu
Apr 17 16:19:46 <qwerty12> bye
Apr 17 16:19:58 <Anthon1> Is using the DBus the right approach, or should I put all of the server functionality into the applet and then have both UIs directly access the database of tasks?
Apr 17 16:20:13 <Anthon1> I'm having a hard time finding documentation on creating dbus servers.
Apr 17 16:20:21 <Anthon1> There is lots of information on creating clients.
Apr 17 16:20:58 <Anthon1> I believe what I need to do is to create a generic interface, which then provides an array of task object paths.
Apr 17 16:21:03 <Anthon1> Then provide a task interface as well.
Apr 17 16:21:11 <pupnik> only guy i know who used dbus here who may be present is derf
Apr 17 16:21:51 <pupnik> you might get better answers on the maemo-developers list
Apr 17 16:22:27 <Anthon1> Thanks.  I'll give that a try.
Apr 17 16:22:31 <Khertan_on_n810> Hi
Apr 17 16:23:05 <qwerty12> hi
Apr 17 16:26:23 <Khertan_on_n810> zzz
Apr 17 16:28:22 <Khertan_on_n810> ouch microb has just crash ... the first time !
Apr 17 16:29:03 <cy3o3> microb crashes on me all the time
Apr 17 16:29:22 <GeneralAntilles> Khertan_on_n810, I installed some of your desktop applets, but they wont load. :<
Apr 17 16:29:31 <GeneralAntilles> cy3o3, it depends a lot on your use-case.
Apr 17 16:29:33 <Khertan_on_n810> gnié ?
Apr 17 16:29:53 <GeneralAntilles> Check them in the applet selector, click OK and nothing happens.
Apr 17 16:30:00 <GeneralAntilles> Open the selector up and they're not checked.
Apr 17 16:30:02 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, Grab the hildondesktop bindings
Apr 17 16:30:07 <qwerty12> Something like that.
Apr 17 16:30:17 <GeneralAntilles> It's not a dependency? <_<
Apr 17 16:30:28 <Khertan_on_n810> it should be
Apr 17 16:30:46 <qwerty12> It is afaik, unless you have it already installed?
Apr 17 16:31:46 <Khertan_on_n810> i m verifying dependancy
Apr 17 16:32:57 <Khertan_on_n810> it s my fault
Apr 17 16:33:20 <Khertan_on_n810> i ve forgotten python *things* launcher dependancy
Apr 17 16:34:05 <Khertan_on_n810> but it was a dependancy of hildondesktop in the beta hildondesktop package
Apr 17 16:37:06 <Khertan_on_n810> apt-get install hildon-desktop-python-loader
Apr 17 16:37:06 <Khertan_on_n810> :)
Apr 17 16:38:14 <keesj> what does Outbound mean?
Apr 17 16:46:08 * koyote debates keyboards
Apr 17 16:46:23 <koyote> I wish there was somewhere local to get one.
Apr 17 16:46:26 <Khertan_on_n810> GeneralAntilles > i m uploading new packages
Apr 17 16:46:30 <Khertan_on_n810> outbound != inbound
Apr 17 16:46:34 <Khertan_on_n810> and
Apr 17 16:46:40 <Khertan_on_n810> True = (outbound == not(inbound))
Apr 17 16:47:09 <GeneralAntilles> Installed the loader
Apr 17 16:47:11 <GeneralAntilles> Works great
Apr 17 16:47:12 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks!
Apr 17 16:47:23 <GeneralAntilles> Out of interest, how often do the applets refresh?
Apr 17 16:47:46 <qwerty12> I find they only refresh when you switch to the desktop from another program :)
Apr 17 16:51:43 <Khertan_on_n810> the applet refresh time is different from one applet to an other
Apr 17 16:52:05 <Khertan_on_n810> 'refreshing isn't display at a timer raised refresh'
Apr 17 16:52:25 <Khertan_on_n810> and applet don t refresh in background
Apr 17 16:52:27 <Khertan_on_n810> :)
Apr 17 16:52:44 <Khertan_on_n810> only when there are foreground
Apr 17 16:53:10 <Khertan_on_n810> for homeip it 2000ms
Apr 17 17:02:17 <Khertan_on_n810> the applet refresh time is different from one applet to an other
Apr 17 17:02:24 <Khertan_on_n810> 'refreshing isn't display at a timer raised refresh'
Apr 17 17:02:33 <Khertan_on_n810> only when there are foreground
Apr 17 17:02:38 <Khertan_on_n810> and applet don t refresh in background
Apr 17 17:02:44 <Khertan_on_n810> for homeip it 2000ms
Apr 17 17:02:56 <Khertan_on_n810>  /s/it/it s
Apr 17 17:08:52 <Khertan_on_n810> it s funny to see how author of the post about a canola like gui has been irrited by comments on his idea
Apr 17 17:10:09 <GeneralAntilles> Dan or Krisse?
Apr 17 17:12:03 <Khertan_on_n810> the one which have made the second post
Apr 17 17:12:47 <Khertan_on_n810> i ve uploaded new home* packages with correct dependancies
Apr 17 17:13:06 <Khertan_on_n810> :) thx GA for the report
Apr 17 17:13:11 <GeneralAntilles> Sure thing.
Apr 17 17:18:14 <Khertan_on_n810> GeneralAntilles > so what do u think about the applet ?
Apr 17 17:18:16 <lcuk> pupnik, you knockin around
Apr 17 17:18:26 <pupnik> hi lcuk
Apr 17 17:18:35 <GeneralAntilles> Look great, work fine.
Apr 17 17:18:38 <GeneralAntilles> No complaints. :)
Apr 17 17:18:41 <lcuk> hi there, saw you wanting synced blits earlier
Apr 17 17:18:56 <Khertan_on_n810> need other one ?
Apr 17 17:19:00 <lcuk> i will quite happily share, but its not sdl - hence its not rgb
Apr 17 17:19:06 <pupnik> yeah i'd actually be motivated if i cou
Apr 17 17:19:21 <pupnik> do you have any comments in there? :/
Apr 17 17:19:37 <lcuk> in there?
Apr 17 17:19:51 <pupnik> i don't really need the sdl part to draw
Apr 17 17:19:54 <lcuk> i just got home and saw falshing
Apr 17 17:19:58 <pupnik> :)
Apr 17 17:20:22 <pupnik> it would kind of help remotorvate me i think
Apr 17 17:20:27 <lcuk> whatcha thinkin then
Apr 17 17:20:29 <GeneralAntilles> What about a lat/long if the GPS is on?
Apr 17 17:20:42 <GeneralAntilles> Or a light-meter reading.
Apr 17 17:20:52 <GeneralAntilles> Internal temperature?
Apr 17 17:21:09 <Khertan_on_n810> hum ... why not ... just need to find how to get this in python
Apr 17 17:21:11 <lcuk> pupnik, when you have the book reader, do you play using the -turbo thing, or did you just use it on default sluggish
Apr 17 17:21:47 <pupnik> i didn't try -turbo
Apr 17 17:22:05 <lcuk> fair enough, then the hack i just put in might surprise you ;)
Apr 17 17:22:13 <pupnik> i'm not sure i'd even notice tearing with vertical scrolling
Apr 17 17:22:18 <Khertan_on_n810> do u know how can i access internal temp
Apr 17 17:22:22 <Khertan_on_n810> ?
Apr 17 17:22:27 <GeneralAntilles> nitapps.com
Apr 17 17:22:31 <lcuk> there was in the old way, i was missing out on an event and drawing over
Apr 17 17:22:40 <GeneralAntilles> Has both internal temp and ambient light.
Apr 17 17:22:49 <GeneralAntilles> Should be able to divine the method from his sources.
Apr 17 17:22:50 <pupnik> y..you page filp?
Apr 17 17:23:17 <Khertan_on_n810> yeah from source this will be easy
Apr 17 17:23:20 <pupnik> or is there some other way
Apr 17 17:23:22 <lcuk> no i was overwriting memory before it had all gone - but as you say with moving page just a few pixels it wasnt noticable
Apr 17 17:23:33 <pupnik> ah
Apr 17 17:23:53 <lcuk> but i have it now where i tell the lcd to update and it raises an event when finished
Apr 17 17:24:09 <Khertan_on_n810> i really need to redesign my web site
Apr 17 17:24:10 <lcuk> max speed has gone from 27fps to 25... ;)
Apr 17 17:24:27 <jott> lcuk: when will we see the source code of your work? *poke*poke*
Apr 17 17:24:55 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Apr 17 17:25:14 <pupnik> wow so i can draw and only update when finished
Apr 17 17:25:23 <lcuk> hmmmmm.. when i split it out into library/module i have too much stuff on the user side which i am keeping for a rainy day
Apr 17 17:25:34 <Khertan_on_n810> GeneralAntntilles it s command line tool so no need to analyse source ... just use it
Apr 17 17:25:37 <Khertan_on_n810> :)
Apr 17 17:25:47 <GeneralAntilles> Or that. :P
Apr 17 17:27:00 <pupnik> could you just pull out and share some relevant code blocks with some comments?
Apr 17 17:27:01 <lcuk> pupnik, as far as i know yes, but i might be wrong because i just do things quickly - i did see horrid tearing before listening for the event but that was me really overwhelming the rendering
Apr 17 17:27:29 <pupnik> well whatever you feel comfy with
Apr 17 17:27:38 <pupnik> there's tons of things i need to do anyway
Apr 17 17:27:41 <lcuk> yer sure but while you wait ill just up a quick test and tell me if you notice where i gained the speed from with my "hack" ;)
Apr 17 17:27:50 <pupnik> sure
Apr 17 17:34:44 <lcuk> try this as an initial test (just extract all to somewhere executable and run from within same folder
Apr 17 17:34:45 <lcuk> http://liquid.googlepages.com/liqbase_test20080417.zip
Apr 17 17:36:41 <RedPenguin> I know this may sound like a silly question but, I have just received my new N810, and the tape piece to remove the plastic off the screen came off before I had a chance to remove the protective plastic
Apr 17 17:37:01 <RedPenguin> Now the plastic is stuck on the screen along with a silver sticker, anyone know a way I could get the plastic off?
Apr 17 17:37:08 <GeneralAntilles> Fingernail
Apr 17 17:37:10 <mgedmin> hammer?
Apr 17 17:37:11 <GeneralAntilles> or credit card, maybe.
Apr 17 17:37:28 <MangoFusion> fingernails here ;)
Apr 17 17:37:30 <RedPenguin> I was thinking that but wasn't sure if that could somehow destroy the screen
Apr 17 17:38:16 <MangoFusion> have you suffered from a bout of bad luck recently?
Apr 17 17:38:28 <tank-man> or try another piece of tape
Apr 17 17:38:35 <lcuk> ill be back later, pupnik, you will notice stars are running slowly - scratch the screen to make it go faster ;)  it helps me to see how fast cpu is going currently
Apr 17 17:38:38 <RedPenguin> nope
Apr 17 17:38:43 <MangoFusion> good :)
Apr 17 17:39:29 <RedPenguin> I could just leave the plastic on like I do on other devices but my N810 came with a silver sticker on the plastic so it's blocking part of the screen
Apr 17 17:39:40 <GeneralAntilles> Pull the sticker off, then. :P
Apr 17 17:39:49 <GeneralAntilles> Use some ronsonol or something to get the stick off.
Apr 17 17:39:52 <RedPenguin> I did but it leaves a bunch of residue
Apr 17 17:41:49 <RedPenguin> I will have to try that
Apr 17 17:43:23 <ralann> im waiting for mine from amazon
Apr 17 17:43:40 <lcuk> the Amazon has a nokia factory now? cool
Apr 17 17:43:43 <lcuk> jungle mobiles
Apr 17 17:43:48 <Khertan_on_n810> ouch crah of maemo desktop
Apr 17 17:44:08 <ralann> mmmm, no
Apr 17 17:44:32 <MangoFusion> n810 jungle edition
Apr 17 17:46:28 <RedPenguin> Just to make sure I'm getting the right results, a search of ronsonol brings up lighter fluid results
Apr 17 17:47:11 <ralann> lighter fluid... eeek
Apr 17 17:47:26 <Khertan_on_n810> GeneralAntilles > homeinternaltemp should be now be validated in a short time in extras devel
Apr 17 17:47:40 <ralann> i use it to clean wax and stickers,, but not on new expensive devices
Apr 17 17:48:03 <lcdd> i just used the sticker itself to pick up the residue
Apr 17 17:48:05 <RedPenguin> that's why I wasn't sure if I got the wrong results or something
Apr 17 17:48:12 <lcdd> works quite often
Apr 17 17:49:37 <tank-man> vinigar works too
Apr 17 17:50:04 <tank-man> with plastic card
Apr 17 17:50:05 <RedPenguin> I think I will just try another piece of tape once I get my hands on some
Apr 17 17:51:47 <GeneralAntilles> Ronsonol is right
Apr 17 17:51:51 <GeneralAntilles> Don't use anything else, though.
Apr 17 17:51:53 <GeneralAntilles> It's naptha
Apr 17 17:52:03 <GeneralAntilles> Which is incredible at getting stick off just about everything.
Apr 17 17:52:08 <_V_> re
Apr 17 17:52:29 <GeneralAntilles> Just a touch on a cotton ball will clean the stick right off.
Apr 17 17:52:30 <_V_> is possible to 'update' os2008 with the command apt-get upgrade ?
Apr 17 17:52:47 <GeneralAntilles> Not until Diablo.
Apr 17 17:52:49 <mgedmin> _V_: define update
Apr 17 17:52:54 <_V_> or is mandatory to use the application installer ?
Apr 17 17:53:01 <mgedmin> you can't upgrade the OS, but you can upgrade 3rd party packages
Apr 17 17:53:07 <GeneralAntilles> ^
Apr 17 17:53:18 <mgedmin> just be careful
Apr 17 17:53:23 <_V_> i need to upgrade only new available apps
Apr 17 17:53:23 <GeneralAntilles> You can also put yourself into a reboot loop if you pull stuff from certain repositories, though.
Apr 17 17:53:24 <mgedmin> app installer has safety checks that apt doesn't
Apr 17 17:53:38 <_V_> (new version)
Apr 17 17:53:41 <mgedmin> upgrading certain system packages (such as busybox) is a recipe for disaster
Apr 17 17:53:49 <_V_> a, ok
Apr 17 17:54:00 <mgedmin> upgrading the same apps you could upgrade from the app-manager is safe
Apr 17 17:54:01 <_V_> so is not safe to use apt-get update
Apr 17 17:54:08 <mgedmin> apt-get update is always safe
Apr 17 17:54:11 <GeneralAntilles> upgrade
Apr 17 17:54:39 <mgedmin> right, apt-get update = safe, apt-get upgrade = you're an expert and know what you do
Apr 17 17:54:52 <_V_> ok, thanks
Apr 17 17:55:03 <_V_> i have some trouble upgrading some apps
Apr 17 17:55:04 <mgedmin> (= mostly safe, but if something does go wrong that 1% of the time, you've been warned)
Apr 17 17:56:12 <_V_> (homecpuspeed,homediskfree ecc...)
Apr 17 17:57:30 <Khertan_on_n810> GeneralAntilles > homelightmeter should be available soon too.
Apr 17 17:57:53 <Khertan_on_n810> the two new applet have been uploaded to maemo extras-devel
Apr 17 17:58:27 <lcuk> wkhertan, what does it do
Apr 17 17:58:34 <_V_> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/python2.5-hildondesktop_0.0.2-1_armel.deb (--unpack):
Apr 17 17:58:34 <_V_>  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/hildondesktop.la', which is also in package python-hildondesktop
Apr 17 17:59:16 <keesj> maemo-torch-home-applet
Apr 17 17:59:29 <GeneralAntilles> <_< powerlaunch can't be installed and can't be uninstalled
Apr 17 17:59:31 <GeneralAntilles> How do I nuke it?
Apr 17 17:59:51 <lcuk> with a hammer
Apr 17 18:01:04 <GeneralAntilles> Khertan_on_n810, prefs dialog for celsius/fahrenheit selection?
Apr 17 18:01:07 <Khertan_on_n810> _V_ > apt-get remove python-hildondesktop_0.0.2-1_armel.deb
Apr 17 18:02:03 <Khertan_on_n810> i don t how to do prefs dialog for python applet as there is now documentations on python binding
Apr 17 18:03:05 <Khertan_on_n810> lcuk > the first display internal temperature of your nit, and the second one the luminosity in lux
Apr 17 18:03:18 <Khertan_on_n810> (on n810 only for the second)
Apr 17 18:03:37 <lcuk> twhat if the ambient sensor has been errrrrm sabotaged?
Apr 17 18:03:59 <lcuk> (like with a sticky badge)
Apr 17 18:04:40 <Khertan_on_n810> the result will be sabotaged too :)
Apr 17 18:05:11 <lcuk> it annoyed me how the display would go light and dark too often - my hand hovers over that corner most of the time
Apr 17 18:05:28 <_V_> Khertan_on_n810: dpkg -r --force-depends python-hildondesktop
Apr 17 18:06:01 <_V_> mmm
Apr 17 18:06:19 <_V_> only homecpuspeed depends on python2.5-hildondesktop
Apr 17 18:06:33 <_V_> other home* depends on python-hildondesktop
Apr 17 18:06:38 <_V_> is this correct ?
Apr 17 18:07:13 <lcuk> homecpuspeed...   hmmm does this by chance effect the performance settings
Apr 17 18:09:47 <_V_> solved
Apr 17 18:09:59 <_V_> dpkg -r --force-depends python-hildondesktop
Apr 17 18:10:01 <Khertan_on_n810> _V_ > hum u will have problems at each update :)
Apr 17 18:10:05 <Khertan_on_n810> remove it ..
Apr 17 18:10:07 <GeneralAntilles> powerlaunch just needs to die. ;_;
Apr 17 18:10:10 <Khertan_on_n810> apt-cache search hikdondesktop
Apr 17 18:10:11 <GeneralAntilles> I want it to go away.
Apr 17 18:10:11 <Khertan_on_n810> remove it ..
Apr 17 18:10:16 <Khertan_on_n810> and then it ll use the official package available in extras-devel
Apr 17 18:10:17 <_V_> and then an apt-get -f install
Apr 17 18:11:27 <Khertan_on_n810> what is powerlaunch ?
Apr 17 18:12:20 <GeneralAntilles> http://powerlaunch.garage.maemo.org/
Apr 17 18:12:33 <GeneralAntilles> The install is broken and I can neither install it nor remove it.
Apr 17 18:12:44 <Navi> yey
Apr 17 18:14:04 <Khertan_on_n810> what is the error given by apt ?
Apr 17 18:14:29 <Khertan_on_n810> maybe fixing the pre remove install script will help
Apr 17 18:14:45 <Khertan_on_n810> or preinstall script
Apr 17 18:15:06 <GeneralAntilles> E: Sub-processs /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
Apr 17 18:15:43 <Khertan_on_n810> does dpkg give you more details ?
Apr 17 18:16:07 <GeneralAntilles> Nope
Apr 17 18:17:16 <Khertan_on_n810> also with a dpkg -i command line ?
Apr 17 18:17:52 <GeneralAntilles> "Errors were encountered"
Apr 17 18:18:31 <Khertan_on_n810> ouch difficult to fix with this
Apr 17 18:18:42 <lcuk> dmesg?
Apr 17 18:19:14 <GeneralAntilles> My install is mostly trashed at this point
Apr 17 18:19:19 <GeneralAntilles> sshd doesn't work anymore, either.
Apr 17 18:19:26 <GeneralAntilles> I'm just coasting along until Diablo. :<
Apr 17 18:19:45 <Khertan_on_n810> i need to go on ... sorry than i can t help you ...
Apr 17 18:19:53 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks for trying.
Apr 17 18:19:56 <Khertan_on_n810> bye
Apr 17 18:20:03 <MangoFusion> i'm still figuring out what is so big about diablo ;)
Apr 17 18:20:05 <Khertan_on_n810> nope u r welcome
Apr 17 18:20:17 <GeneralAntilles> It's an OS update, MangoFusion?
Apr 17 18:20:27 <GeneralAntilles> Bug fixes, major improvements in the browser
Apr 17 18:20:28 <GeneralAntilles> etc, etc
Apr 17 18:21:12 <MangoFusion> yes but we'll just be here next year moaning about how unicorn (or whatever crazy codename the next release is) will be great and fix all the latest problems ;)
Apr 17 18:21:33 <GeneralAntilles> Eh, that's how OS updates work.
Apr 17 18:21:35 * GeneralAntilles shrugs.
Apr 17 18:21:41 <X-Fade> MangoFusion: Close... Elephanta :)
Apr 17 18:21:52 <MangoFusion> true but i just wondered if there was anything more substantially cool
Apr 17 18:21:55 <MangoFusion> like PIM
Apr 17 18:22:02 <MangoFusion> or 3d
Apr 17 18:22:07 <MangoFusion> or kitchen sinks
Apr 17 18:22:14 <GeneralAntilles> Bug fixes are cool enough.
Apr 17 18:22:20 <GeneralAntilles> Especially the MicroB bug fixes.
Apr 17 18:22:33 <GeneralAntilles> Diablo MicroB will be orders of magnitude faster than Chinook MicroB
Apr 17 18:23:04 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: My guess is that its mostly javascript performance..
Apr 17 18:23:13 <X-Fade> fennec isn't faster in rendering..
Apr 17 18:23:39 <GeneralAntilles> Fennec wastes shittons of CPU with its broken scrolling. ;)
Apr 17 18:23:59 <GeneralAntilles> The betas have a much better memory footprint than the early alphas.
Apr 17 18:24:00 <X-Fade> Yeah, the kinetic scrolling isn't that optimized yet ;)
Apr 17 18:24:19 <GeneralAntilles> There have been a LOT of improvements since last fall.
Apr 17 18:24:41 <lcuk> x - does the cpu run at full speed when scrolling?
Apr 17 18:24:52 <X-Fade> Yep, but I hope they will provide any noticeable changes.
Apr 17 18:25:03 <lcuk> i notice i can only get "near" full speed when at 166 - at 400 its crystal smooth
Apr 17 18:25:09 <X-Fade> lcuk: Probably.
Apr 17 18:25:13 <GeneralAntilles> Besides, MicroB has a lot of niggly little UI bugs that I'm sure will be fixed.
Apr 17 18:25:33 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, a browser has a lot more stuff to kick in the cpu freq.
Apr 17 18:25:46 <lcuk> yer i know
Apr 17 18:25:49 <lcuk> anyway, must dash for now
Apr 17 18:26:07 <lcuk> nom nom nom tea at mums
Apr 17 18:26:20 <X-Fade> I hope that microb will be better. Webkit is perhaps also an option..
Apr 17 18:26:34 <GeneralAntilles> Eventually
Apr 17 18:27:54 <X-Fade> It feels more lightweight at the moment, but who knows ;)
Apr 17 18:28:09 <GeneralAntilles> WebKit has more potential than Gecko
Apr 17 18:28:16 <GeneralAntilles> Lighter weight, more agile engine.
Apr 17 18:28:24 <GeneralAntilles> But it needs more work to get it up to speed on maemo.
Apr 17 18:32:12 <gribouille> hi
Apr 17 18:32:52 <gribouille> I need to install some packages, but I don't know in which repo I can find them
Apr 17 18:35:37 <gribouille> someone here ?
Apr 17 18:35:46 <GeneralAntilles> gronmayer.com/it
Apr 17 18:46:46 <RedPenguin> Any way to get the N810 louder? I tried turning the volume up all the way (using both headphones + speakers) and it's fairly quiet, or is that just how it is?
Apr 17 18:47:48 <lcdd> RedPenguin: there's an additional control in media player if that's what you're using
Apr 17 18:47:53 <GeneralAntilles> The speakers can actually go a lot louder.
Apr 17 18:48:02 <GeneralAntilles> Something's a little weak software side.
Apr 17 18:50:19 <RedPenguin> I can hear stuff but if I walked into a noisy enviornment, I'm not sure if I would be able to really hear it that well
Apr 17 18:50:44 <RedPenguin> I tried out a Shoutcast and it's like people talking in a library almost
Apr 17 18:51:13 <X-Fade> RedPenguin: Did you turn the application volume _and_ the system volume up?
Apr 17 18:51:45 <RedPenguin> I know I definatly turned the system volume up, I will have to double check the application to see if that is up or not
Apr 17 19:14:52 <Jaffa> re
Apr 17 19:22:23 <liquid217> redpenguin, there is an option you can add to mplayers config to increase the volume.  Think it's called softvol-max
Apr 17 19:22:38 <liquid217> but that only applies to mplayer obviously
Apr 17 19:31:41 <lirakis> Is there a way to get a pipe character from my n810 keyboard?
Apr 17 19:32:09 <lirakis> I cant belive its not available by deefault
Apr 17 19:32:47 <pH5> lirakis: http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2007/12/31/adding-pipe-and-tab-to-the-n810-keyboard/#comment-226251
Apr 17 19:33:45 <pupnik> check the comments lower down lirakis
Apr 17 19:33:59 <lirakis> Ok will do
Apr 17 19:34:06 <lirakis> Thanks
Apr 17 19:35:50 <lirakis> Oh uh
Apr 17 19:36:12 <lirakis> What is the default pass for sudo?
Apr 17 19:36:46 <GeneralAntilles> The user doesn't have a default password.
Apr 17 19:36:54 <GeneralAntilles> Install easyroot.
Apr 17 19:37:09 <GeneralAntilles> and/or OpenSSH server
Apr 17 19:39:13 <flo_lap> re
Apr 17 19:39:24 <MangoFusion> i just use becomeroot :)
Apr 17 19:39:57 <GeneralAntilles> easyroot = "root" rather than "sudo gainroot"
Apr 17 19:40:00 <GeneralAntilles> Easier to type.
Apr 17 19:43:37 <cyberholic> Hi everyone.
Apr 17 19:44:06 <cyberholic> Does anyone of you have or know a script showing a simple "Hello World" of the Google Contacts api? I want to fetch the contacts with php
Apr 17 19:45:22 <||cw> cyberholic: if there is an api, an example will be on code.google.com
Apr 17 19:46:32 <cyberholic> cw: well the problem is that the examples they offer are awfuel. problem II is tha it needs a ZEND google framework that my host does not allow me to install :( ... i just thought that someone in here already would have tried that out.
Apr 17 19:47:20 <||cw> so implement the zend parts in another way
Apr 17 19:47:38 <cyberholic> tried it through a manual php.ini but that did not worked out too :(
Apr 17 19:48:05 <cyberholic> i have been sitting on this the whole day long, my eyes are rectangles and my brain is.... ey! where's my brain!?
Apr 17 19:48:16 <||cw> i said implement, not install
Apr 17 19:48:31 <cyberholic> can you tell me more?
Apr 17 19:51:29 <||cw> I think I see now.  the api itself is just http and xml, the zend part is a lib rolled up for you all nice like.  the xml doens't look hard to parse, use thephp's http functions and xml functions yourself
Apr 17 19:51:46 <||cw> s/thephp/php
Apr 17 19:56:11 <cyberholic> i understood taht one, but that is exactly where i go stuck. I can authentificate, what means that that works, but what then? I will give it a try and install the whole Zend on my server :(
Apr 17 20:22:02 <Skyp> hi ;) Is there a simple way to hide/remove an application from the task-bar (temporarily or permanently)?
Apr 17 20:22:27 <Skyp> I have a task, that is almost always running and I want to keep it from appearing in the taskbar
Apr 17 20:24:10 <Skyp> Maybe a setting in /usr/share/application/hildon/*.desktop ?
Apr 17 20:24:25 <AStorm> nope
Apr 17 20:24:38 <AStorm> you have to set a special GTK style
Apr 17 20:24:55 <AStorm> on the window to make it not appear theree
Apr 17 20:25:10 <Skyp> So to recompile is my only option?
Apr 17 20:25:42 <AStorm> nah, you could set the style with some external app
Apr 17 20:25:56 <AStorm> it's an X property
Apr 17 20:26:26 <Skyp> Hm, ok... is there an App on-board which can accomplish that?
Apr 17 20:28:51 <AStorm> hm, after prolonged use, hildon-desktop eats a lot of memory
Apr 17 20:28:59 <AStorm> any way to stop that?
Apr 17 20:30:15 <smackpotato> its cache
Apr 17 20:30:22 <smackpotato> its good
Apr 17 20:30:46 <AStorm> yeah sure?
Apr 17 20:30:51 <AStorm> a cache of what?
Apr 17 20:31:26 <smackpotato> program you used or may use
Apr 17 20:31:45 <AStorm> ....
Apr 17 20:32:01 <smackpotato> you can set these  things
Apr 17 20:32:03 <dragorn> that doesn't sound right
Apr 17 20:32:12 <AStorm> smackpotato: where?
Apr 17 20:32:25 <smackpotato> ill,look
Apr 17 20:32:41 <AStorm> ah nopes
Apr 17 20:33:02 <AStorm> it's the dbus-daemon that's gobbling up 25% of memory
Apr 17 20:33:04 <AStorm> why?
Apr 17 20:33:05 <dragorn> programs should let the kernel handle the IO cache for recently run stuff instead of taking it away from other apps, since they have no idea if a large program needs ram
Apr 17 20:33:52 <MangoFusion> i'd love to see what memory usage is like on, say, the iphone
Apr 17 20:34:19 <AStorm> then check its /proc
Apr 17 20:36:13 <smackpotato> /proc/sys/vm
Apr 17 20:36:16 <AStorm> hmmhmm
Apr 17 20:36:23 <smackpotato> whatever
Apr 17 20:36:26 <AStorm> how do I restart that daemon?
Apr 17 20:37:36 <dragorn> AStorm: probably /etc/init.d/dbus
Apr 17 20:37:46 <dragorn> AStorm: but I'd expect it to get unhappy
Apr 17 20:39:17 <smackpotato> swapiness is one value i like to change just echo a diferent value
Apr 17 20:41:54 <AStorm> blah, rebooted the machine by accident
Apr 17 20:42:48 <smackpotato> what machine do  you have astorm
Apr 17 20:43:16 <AStorm> N810, doh
Apr 17 20:43:24 <smackpotato> cool
Apr 17 20:45:56 <dragorn> AStorm: i was going to say, the worst you can do is cause a reboot
Apr 17 22:14:18 <unixSnob> i'm so glad that big NIT banner was removed from internettablettalk.com.. that thing was an eyesore, and blocked buttons on small screens
Apr 17 22:57:06 <NOCmadman> is there any easyway to setup scratchbox in windows using andlinux as my laptop does not play well with linux
Apr 17 23:01:18 <wnd> NOCmadman, use vmware and ready-made hard drive image that contains a copy of gnu/linux and that has scratchbox installed. don't ask me more, I never tried or saw it myself. I only know that such image exists somewhere.
Apr 17 23:07:24 <unixSnob> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7087 <= That's a good power to USB cable.. I just tested it to make sure it works, if anyone is interested.  $7 shipped.
Apr 17 23:07:38 <unixSnob> it works on the n800
Apr 17 23:11:11 <NOCmadman> yea i was gona do that but i do alot of things remotly ad vmware dont like logmein plust the only vmware image i found was very outdated if i could find a newer one that would work great. does anyone know the link to a current image ?
Apr 17 23:12:50 <gribouille> hi
Apr 17 23:13:22 <gribouille> I've just installed openssh-server on my Nokia N800, but I can't ssh to it. what's wrong ?
Apr 17 23:17:21 <gribouille> can someone help me please ?
Apr 17 23:17:33 <KotCzarny> can you ping it?
Apr 17 23:18:10 <gribouille> KotCzarny, yes
Apr 17 23:18:15 <KotCzarny> nmap ?
Apr 17 23:19:26 <gribouille> KotCzarny, why nmap ?
Apr 17 23:19:44 <gribouille> 22/tcp open  ssh
Apr 17 23:20:00 <KotCzarny> then ssh -v (or -d)
Apr 17 23:20:51 <gribouille> KotCzarny, Permission denied, please try again.
Apr 17 23:21:07 <KotCzarny> permission denied to what?
Apr 17 23:21:44 <gribouille> KotCzarny, but when I ssh from my N800 (with the same password), it works fine
Apr 17 23:22:04 <KotCzarny> then your windows/firewall/network seems broken
Apr 17 23:22:05 <gribouille> KotCzarny, when ssh asks the passqord
Apr 17 23:22:15 <KotCzarny> or you have simply mistype the pass
Apr 17 23:22:16 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 23:22:27 <KotCzarny> sudo password (on device)
Apr 17 23:22:37 <gribouille> ok
Apr 17 23:22:49 <KotCzarny> or any other mean to reset the pass
Apr 17 23:23:36 <|thunder> Install putty
Apr 17 23:23:50 <|thunder> Will make ssh magiically work
Apr 17 23:23:56 <KotCzarny> 'install' is a big word
Apr 17 23:24:00 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 17 23:24:03 <gribouille> KotCzarny, it still doesn't work
Apr 17 23:24:08 <|thunder> As a client
Apr 17 23:24:48 <KotCzarny> gribouille: i can't think of anything other than some trivial mistake
Apr 17 23:24:49 <gribouille> KotCzarny, where does ssh log its activity ?
Apr 17 23:25:00 <KotCzarny> usually to /var/log/secure
Apr 17 23:25:07 <|thunder> -  /etc/init.d/ssh  restart
Apr 17 23:25:09 <KotCzarny> but syslogd is missing
Apr 17 23:25:16 <KotCzarny> you will have to install it
Apr 17 23:25:33 <KotCzarny> you can try running sshd directly
Apr 17 23:25:38 <KotCzarny> with -d flag
Apr 17 23:26:01 <KotCzarny> that will not detach it from console and print some debug messages
Apr 17 23:26:31 <gribouille> KotCzarny, but sshd is already running
Apr 17 23:26:56 <KotCzarny> then also add -p 22222
Apr 17 23:27:02 <KotCzarny> and test it on another port
Apr 17 23:29:00 <lcdd> gribouille: are you logging in as user 'user'?
Apr 17 23:29:16 <KotCzarny> ah
Apr 17 23:29:23 <KotCzarny> good point
Apr 17 23:29:24 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 23:29:40 <KotCzarny> try root@n800ip
Apr 17 23:29:40 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 23:29:43 <gribouille> lcdd, no, as root
Apr 17 23:30:14 <gribouille> KotCzarny, ok, it works now. yhanks
Apr 17 23:30:19 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 17 23:30:22 <KotCzarny> what was wrong?
Apr 17 23:30:59 <gribouille> KotCzarny, typo ;-(
Apr 17 23:31:03 <KotCzarny> lol
Apr 17 23:31:12 <KotCzarny> as i said, something trivial :)
Apr 17 23:31:42 <gribouille> what happens if I forget root's password ?
Apr 17 23:31:53 <KotCzarny> you reset it with sudo
Apr 17 23:32:03 <KotCzarny> or maybe reinstalling ssh server will ask again
Apr 17 23:32:22 <KotCzarny> you can try using permanent marker too
Apr 17 23:32:23 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 17 23:32:40 <gribouille> KotCzarny, what's that ?
Apr 17 23:33:15 <KotCzarny> http://www.chinatraderonline.com/Files/Gifts-and-Crafts/Pen/White-Board-Maker/Permanent-Marker-23302120203.jpg
Apr 17 23:33:17 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 23:33:40 <gribouille> ah, good idea ;-)
Apr 17 23:35:08 <gribouille> I have problems figuring out what memory/storage there is in an out-of-the-box N800
Apr 17 23:35:29 <gribouille> that's my first Internet tablet
Apr 17 23:35:29 <KotCzarny> 128mb sdram, 256mb flash, 2x sdhc slot
Apr 17 23:35:52 <termsig> but u can  check with top command and df
Apr 17 23:36:21 <KotCzarny> top is.. complicated
Apr 17 23:36:22 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 17 23:36:34 <termsig> now it's really easy ;)
Apr 17 23:36:49 <gribouille> where is the OS stored ?
Apr 17 23:36:54 <KotCzarny> on the flash
Apr 17 23:37:10 <KotCzarny> but you can clone it to the sd card and boot/run from there
Apr 17 23:37:15 <termsig> but u can boot from card.
Apr 17 23:37:23 <termsig> uh, lag ;)
Apr 17 23:37:48 <gribouille> the flash is /dev/mtdblock4, right ?
Apr 17 23:37:59 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 17 23:38:57 <gribouille> so, my sdhc card is mounted on /media/mmc1 ?
Apr 17 23:39:07 <KotCzarny> depending in which slot it is
Apr 17 23:39:08 <termsig> and mmc2
Apr 17 23:39:50 <termsig> if i`m not wrong mmc2 it's inside and mmc1 it's outside card.
Apr 17 23:40:57 <gribouille> is /home/user on the flash ?
Apr 17 23:41:31 <termsig> yes.
Apr 17 23:41:47 <gribouille> ok, I see clearly now
Apr 17 23:41:50 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 23:42:23 <gribouille> do you have N800 or N810 ?
Apr 17 23:42:31 <KotCzarny> n800
Apr 17 23:42:32 <termsig> n810
Apr 17 23:42:41 <termsig> :>
Apr 17 23:42:48 <KotCzarny> (first again)
Apr 17 23:42:49 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 17 23:43:09 <gribouille> KotCzarny, do you miss a physical keyboard ?
Apr 17 23:43:13 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 17 23:43:17 <KotCzarny> sometimes
Apr 17 23:43:20 <KotCzarny> but not that much
Apr 17 23:43:22 <Mousey> why can't i get canola2 to connect to last.fm?
Apr 17 23:43:29 <Mousey> something about my system time
Apr 17 23:43:31 <KotCzarny> i have bt kb
Apr 17 23:43:45 <KotCzarny> and there are some replacement osk too
Apr 17 23:44:01 <gribouille> osk ?
Apr 17 23:44:06 <termsig> gribouille: n810 keyboard it's not so nice too..
Apr 17 23:44:19 <gribouille> termsig, why ?
Apr 17 23:44:53 <termsig> because it's really small and if somone have big fingers it's really hard to write quick.
Apr 17 23:45:13 <KotCzarny> or long finger nails
Apr 17 23:45:13 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 17 23:45:30 <gribouille> what do you use you tablet for ?
Apr 17 23:45:36 <termsig> it's not my problem ;P
Apr 17 23:45:50 <KotCzarny> media player, web browser, games, ssh sometimes
Apr 17 23:46:06 <KotCzarny> fun gadget to use on the go
Apr 17 23:46:32 <KotCzarny> for the places where getting out laptop isn't so convenient
Apr 17 23:46:35 <gribouille> does anyone know if bash is available ?
Apr 17 23:46:43 <termsig> yes.
Apr 17 23:46:48 <termsig> bash3
Apr 17 23:46:52 <gribouille> where ?
Apr 17 23:47:01 <KotCzarny> probably, but it's advised not to use it as a default sh
Apr 17 23:47:19 <gribouille> why ?
Apr 17 23:47:32 <termsig> apt-get mate.
Apr 17 23:47:47 <KotCzarny> only thing that i can think of is that scripts were tested only with busybox's shell
Apr 17 23:47:53 <KotCzarny> and memory requirements
Apr 17 23:47:54 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 23:48:57 * Mousey loves the n810 keyboard
Apr 17 23:49:11 * Mousey didn't by the n800 cuz it didn't have a keyb
Apr 17 23:49:54 <|thunder> 800 under 200$ nib
Apr 17 23:49:54 * KotCzarny bought n800 because it was 3x cheaper than n810
Apr 17 23:50:11 <KotCzarny> and i'm thinking that 800 is superior to 810
Apr 17 23:50:12 <Mousey> ...there's that
Apr 17 23:50:18 <KotCzarny> but it's only my opinion
Apr 17 23:50:18 <Mousey> i'm thinking you're crazy ;)
Apr 17 23:50:19 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 23:50:20 <Mousey> but
Apr 17 23:50:29 <Mousey> i'm gonna get an n800 to, and use it for usb storage
Apr 17 23:50:33 <KotCzarny> everyone has different needs
Apr 17 23:50:39 <Mousey> 64gb solid state storage tablet!! w00t!!
Apr 17 23:50:39 <|thunder> Same  hardware minnus the gps
Apr 17 23:50:45 <termsig> guys it's depence.. for what u using u n8x0
Apr 17 23:50:57 <KotCzarny> mousey: or more, if sd goes up
Apr 17 23:51:05 <KotCzarny> yup
Apr 17 23:51:08 <|thunder> 64gb ???????
Apr 17 23:51:08 <Mousey> hey, has anyone gotten their SD cards to format as ext2/3?
Apr 17 23:51:12 <KotCzarny> no reason to argue which one is better
Apr 17 23:51:17 <Mousey> |thunder: yea 2x 32gb cards
Apr 17 23:51:21 * KotCzarny has had
Apr 17 23:51:32 <Mousey> i like microUSB, i hate miniSD
Apr 17 23:51:33 <KotCzarny> mousey: wanna see my clone script?
Apr 17 23:51:42 <KotCzarny> i like full sized sd
Apr 17 23:51:43 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 23:51:46 <Mousey> me too
Apr 17 23:51:47 <termsig> 32Gb is out?
Apr 17 23:51:52 <|thunder> Musy, ii have. use ext2, ext3 will kill a sd  card
Apr 17 23:51:52 <KotCzarny> termsig: yes
Apr 17 23:51:55 <Mousey> termsig: yea, good luck finding it tho
Apr 17 23:51:58 <KotCzarny> but expensive
Apr 17 23:52:03 <KotCzarny> ~150$ for card
Apr 17 23:52:12 <RedPenguin> Anyone know what's going on, I can hear sound on my N810's speakers nice and loud but when I plug in the headphones I can barely hear
Apr 17 23:52:20 <KotCzarny> thunder: give me proof :)
Apr 17 23:52:37 <|thunder> How  ??
Apr 17 23:52:38 <KotCzarny> redpenguin: probably it's for health reasons
Apr 17 23:52:43 <termsig> i saw 16Gb for 95 quid
Apr 17 23:52:43 <termsig> Kot	
Apr 17 23:52:48 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 17 23:52:52 <KotCzarny> let me check
Apr 17 23:52:54 <termsig> KotCzarny: any website for 32Gb?
Apr 17 23:53:09 <KotCzarny> i saw them on newegg some time ago
Apr 17 23:53:10 <|thunder> EXt3 is journaled,   that kills solid state
Apr 17 23:53:18 <KotCzarny> thunder: not true
Apr 17 23:53:25 <|thunder> J
Apr 17 23:53:28 <Mousey> |thunder: yea, ext2 would be what i used
Apr 17 23:53:38 <Mousey> i'd LOVE to use LVM
Apr 17 23:53:43 <RedPenguin> there's a button it seems like on the headphones, or is that just nothing? Right around where I guess it's the mic?
Apr 17 23:53:46 <|thunder> It works great for me
Apr 17 23:54:04 <KotCzarny> i'm using ext3 on sd and cf for quite a long time already
Apr 17 23:54:26 <KotCzarny> and no bbs observed, yet
Apr 17 23:54:27 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 23:54:36 <KotCzarny> (long time: 1-2 years)
Apr 17 23:55:44 <KotCzarny> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product_Id=4226541&JRSource=googlebase.datafeed.PAN+RPSDV32GU1K
Apr 17 23:55:46 <KotCzarny> heh
Apr 17 23:55:53 <|thunder> Kot, the problem is that e ery time you write to the part, th journal is updated, doubling your writes. What do you see as being the advantage of 3 over 2 ??
Apr 17 23:55:58 <KotCzarny> ok, i probably saw 150$ on 16gb card
Apr 17 23:55:59 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 23:56:18 <KotCzarny> thunder: yeah, double writes, but, how long it will last?
Apr 17 23:56:27 <termsig> KotCzarny: 16Gb max on newgg for sdhc cards..
Apr 17 23:57:08 <|thunder> KotCzarny: half as long as it coulc, obviously
Apr 17 23:57:16 <KotCzarny> thunder: and how long it is?
Apr 17 23:57:32 <KotCzarny> 10 years?
Apr 17 23:57:32 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 23:57:36 <KotCzarny> 150?
Apr 17 23:57:46 <|thunder> Thats not the point. The point is there is no afvantage
Apr 17 23:57:53 <derf> One write to a journal sector can encompass _many_ writes to other sectors.
Apr 17 23:57:57 <KotCzarny> by the time you reach your first bb you would be using some other technology
Apr 17 23:58:07 <derf> I doubt it's anywhere near a 2:1 ratio.
Apr 17 23:58:31 * lcuk installed ubuntu proper on proper real hardware tonight
Apr 17 23:58:43 <KotCzarny> ubutuized
Apr 17 23:58:47 <KotCzarny> ubuntuized
Apr 17 23:58:49 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 17 23:58:55 <lcuk> something like that :)
Apr 17 23:59:17 <KotCzarny> derf, even at 5:1 ratio it's still LONG time with current sd/cf cards
Apr 17 23:59:17 <texel> Anybody managed to get Poky installed on an N810 at all?
Apr 17 23:59:18 <|thunder> Its one journal update per completed file modification.
Apr 17 23:59:47 <KotCzarny> thunder: that's only with journal=data mount option
Apr 17 23:59:56 <derf> Now, if you _really_ want to kill the card, mount something without noatime.
Apr 17 23:59:59 <KotCzarny> if you have noatime it won't be that often
Apr 18 00:00:10 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 00:00:31 <KotCzarny> btw. do you know that by default jffs2 is mounted without noatime? (i think)
Apr 18 00:00:52 <KotCzarny> same for vfat partitions
Apr 18 00:01:33 <derf> Really? I never even checked.
Apr 18 00:01:33 <Mousey> ye godz
Apr 18 00:01:41 <KotCzarny> derf: mount |grep noatime
Apr 18 00:01:42 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 00:01:44 <derf> I simply assumed no one was that incompetent these days.
Apr 18 00:01:47 <Mousey> so ext2, n800 SD cards? not out of the question?
Apr 18 00:02:07 <KotCzarny> i will go with ext3 over ext2
Apr 18 00:02:18 <Mousey> ok, i rephraze
Apr 18 00:02:23 <Mousey> so ext2/3, n800 SD cards? not out of the question?
Apr 18 00:02:32 <KotCzarny> if you happen to crash you would be writing many times during fsck
Apr 18 00:02:54 <KotCzarny> mousey: i'm running my os2008 on sd/ext3
Apr 18 00:02:54 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 00:03:04 <Mousey> thanks
Apr 18 00:03:14 * Mousey contemplates reformatting his miniSD card
Apr 18 00:03:35 <KotCzarny> but ext2 is just a removed journal and corrected bootmenu entry
Apr 18 00:03:52 <KotCzarny> bah, you can even use xfs or reiser i think
Apr 18 00:04:07 <KotCzarny> as long you have added proper module to initfs
Apr 18 00:05:49 <KotCzarny> i think nice addition would be some compressed fs
Apr 18 00:06:23 <KotCzarny> 200mb jffs2 takes ~360mb on ext3
Apr 18 00:07:30 <Mousey> initfs!
Apr 18 00:07:30 <Mousey> doh
Apr 18 00:07:41 <Mousey> so is there mkinitfs or mkinitramfs?
Apr 18 00:07:52 <Mousey> and wait, ext2/3 is a module?
Apr 18 00:08:00 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 18 00:08:06 <KotCzarny> but it's available already
Apr 18 00:08:07 <Mousey> rats on fire
Apr 18 00:08:10 <KotCzarny> in stock initfs
Apr 18 00:08:10 <Mousey> oh good
Apr 18 00:08:11 <|thunder> No, format and go
Apr 18 00:08:15 <Mousey> hurray!
Apr 18 00:08:22 * Mousey formats EVERYTHING
Apr 18 00:08:26 <Mousey> ok, not really
Apr 18 00:08:29 <KotCzarny> mousey: fgoogle for fanoush initfs
Apr 18 00:08:47 <Mousey> KotCzarny: that dude is a fanatic
Apr 18 00:08:48 <KotCzarny> it has some nice options
Apr 18 00:08:55 <KotCzarny> as most of us
Apr 18 00:08:56 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 00:09:01 <Mousey> guess there's that
Apr 18 00:09:14 <Mousey> my big fear is i'll have a build environment for this thing one day
Apr 18 00:11:40 <|thunder> Id like to get the sdk up
Apr 18 00:11:53 <|thunder> And running
Apr 18 00:11:59 <lcuk> on device?
Apr 18 00:12:31 <Mousey> one day i'll CROSS COMPILE!
Apr 18 00:12:32 <Mousey> ^_^
Apr 18 00:13:05 <lcuk> one day (soon) ill write my own compiler and just compile what i see as i make it
Apr 18 00:16:40 <KotCzarny> and connect it directly to your neurons network?
Apr 18 00:17:56 <lcuk> no, my fingers will make the connections
Apr 18 00:18:07 <lcuk> touch is such an intuitive interface :)
Apr 18 00:19:15 <NOCmadman> does anyone have a link to a current vmwarer image for scratchbox so i can tinker with stuff for the n800
Apr 18 00:19:20 <lcuk> the more i think about this tablet, the more i think it should be designed for touch
Apr 18 00:19:35 <lcuk> http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/
Apr 18 00:19:38 <NOCmadman> i found a few diffrent ones just not sure whats current as things change so fast
Apr 18 00:19:38 <KotCzarny> double sided touch?
Apr 18 00:19:40 <NOCmadman> thank you
Apr 18 00:19:56 <lcuk> no prob :) good luck with it
Apr 18 00:20:35 <NOCmadman> i just wanna tinker with stuff without breaking my n800 i am hoping it makes things easier
Apr 18 00:20:54 <KotCzarny> there are only 2 ways to break the n800
Apr 18 00:20:55 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 00:21:01 <KotCzarny> one is a physical
Apr 18 00:21:11 <lcuk> 3 if you include urination
Apr 18 00:21:11 <KotCzarny> second is breaking bootloader
Apr 18 00:21:22 <KotCzarny> i count urination as physical
Apr 18 00:21:22 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 00:21:34 <Mousey> is there a point to installing another window manager?
Apr 18 00:21:48 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 18 00:21:54 <lcuk> if you want to treat the device as a desktop device it will be worth it
Apr 18 00:21:55 <KotCzarny> but that's personal
Apr 18 00:21:56 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 00:21:57 <Mousey> i'd like more traditional x11 behavior without nuking the box
Apr 18 00:22:06 <KotCzarny> or if you just can't stand matchbox
Apr 18 00:22:11 <lcuk> at this point i dont think there are any touch based win managers available are there?
Apr 18 00:22:12 <NOCmadman> im afraid i may have already broken something as when i got it it would boot in about 7-10 seconds since i flashed it to newest version it now hangs on nokia splash screen for 15-20 seconds before it finishes booting
Apr 18 00:22:43 <lcuk> that could just be the newer operating system os2007 vs os2008?
Apr 18 00:22:49 <NOCmadman> 2008
Apr 18 00:22:52 <lcuk> i never had the older one (ive got an 810)
Apr 18 00:23:12 <lcuk> did it have '07 when you got it
Apr 18 00:23:25 <NOCmadman> it had 08  on it when i got it but i had some power bug and could not power it on unless plugged in the flash fixed that but now takes 2x as long to boot
Apr 18 00:23:52 <lcuk> ahhh dunno then, im still on the umm original? os2008?
Apr 18 00:23:53 <Mousey> i wish matchbox was more flexible
Apr 18 00:23:58 <lcuk> i know a newer one came out
Apr 18 00:24:23 <KotCzarny> mousey: define 'flexible'
Apr 18 00:24:28 <lcuk> anyway, not long left of this evening and much to do
Apr 18 00:24:36 * lcuk dives back into vmware
Apr 18 00:24:45 * KotCzarny waves farewell to lcuk
Apr 18 00:25:10 <Mousey> like the menus on the side ONLY show 3 menus, only one of which i use [contacts? c'mon], and it's stuck on the left, can i put it on the right? i'm left handed.. also the fixed applet panel can't be moved or extended
Apr 18 00:25:26 <KotCzarny> mouser: install personal menu
Apr 18 00:25:33 <Mousey> and why are the applet and taskbar and menu panels all separate anyway? why not generic panels with a taskbar applet and a systray applet
Apr 18 00:25:48 <KotCzarny> as for stuckiness, install rotation hack and just draw the menu to the side you want
Apr 18 00:25:49 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 00:26:15 <Mousey> ok so there are workarounds, i'm just sayin matchbox could be more flexible and save me some memory/filesystem space
Apr 18 00:26:25 <Mousey> imho
Apr 18 00:26:58 <Mousey> ooo, whats navit
Apr 18 00:27:42 <Mousey> in the meantime i'll have to look into rotation hack ^_^, is it related to xrandr?
Apr 18 00:27:49 <KotCzarny> yes
Apr 18 00:28:16 <Mousey> i discovered i can display remote X clients the other night, that's completely cool
Apr 18 00:36:20 <skibur> what is mmc-unionfs for n800?
Apr 18 00:36:31 <skibur> is unionfs faster?
Apr 18 00:36:38 <KotCzarny> tool to extend fs on another card
Apr 18 00:36:48 <KotCzarny> (or device)
Apr 18 00:36:48 <skibur> o ok
Apr 18 00:36:52 <skibur> dangerous
Apr 18 00:36:55 <KotCzarny> nope
Apr 18 00:36:57 <KotCzarny> useful
Apr 18 00:37:07 <KotCzarny> it's already used by knoppix i think
Apr 18 00:37:11 <KotCzarny> for a long time
Apr 18 00:37:50 <skibur> will it destory N800?
Apr 18 00:37:52 <lcdd> unionfs is pretty cool
Apr 18 00:38:09 <KotCzarny> heh..
Apr 18 00:38:21 <KotCzarny> ok, back to ff8
Apr 18 00:38:22 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 00:39:13 <skibur> I C, its used on Live CD
Apr 18 00:39:15 <skibur> :P
Apr 18 00:39:24 <skibur> sorry about the shift
Apr 18 00:40:58 <Mousey> ah ha!
Apr 18 00:41:04 <Mousey> unionfs!
Apr 18 00:41:11 <Mousey> in lieu of LVM
Apr 18 00:41:21 * Mousey wants his n800 all the more now
Apr 18 00:42:04 <jga23_> is there any way to get the w32 binary codecs on the n810?
Apr 18 00:42:15 <KotCzarny> jga23: nope
Apr 18 00:42:31 <KotCzarny> not in practical way
Apr 18 00:42:32 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 00:42:33 <texel> jga23: unfortunately, the w32 binary codecs are compiled for Intel little-endian CPUs.
Apr 18 00:42:48 <texel> You can't run that code directly on the OMAP inside the ITs.
Apr 18 00:43:02 <jga23> ahh, ok, bummer
Apr 18 00:43:03 <GeneralAntilles> I don't think I've ever heard them described that way, texel. :P
Apr 18 00:43:06 <KotCzarny> hmm
Apr 18 00:43:28 <KotCzarny> i wonder if arm included third core based on x86 instructions (even old ones as in p2)
Apr 18 00:43:29 <KotCzarny> :>
Apr 18 00:43:34 <texel> GeneralAntilles: well, I can't exactly state every single CPU line they've made for desktops... =op
Apr 18 00:43:56 <texel> Though I probably could have just said "x86" and left it at that. =op
Apr 18 00:44:01 <GeneralAntilles> ^ ;)
Apr 18 00:44:06 <KotCzarny> texel: arm used in IT is little endian too
Apr 18 00:44:06 <texel> Hehehe
Apr 18 00:44:19 <texel> Ah. Okay, so I was somewhat inaccurate.
Apr 18 00:44:34 <texel> But the point is still true: the opcodes are considerably different.
Apr 18 00:44:38 <KotCzarny> yup
Apr 18 00:44:44 <GeneralAntilles> The endianness is probably the least important part of the incompatibilities. :D
Apr 18 00:44:49 <texel> Yeah. =op
Apr 18 00:44:54 <KotCzarny> nope
Apr 18 00:45:05 <KotCzarny> endiannes is a b*ch when porting bad software
Apr 18 00:45:05 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 18 00:45:14 <texel> KotCzarny: but can easily be translated.
Apr 18 00:45:23 <texel> Opcode styles, not so much. =op
Apr 18 00:45:25 <KotCzarny> texel: ever heard about hidden bugs?
Apr 18 00:45:25 <KotCzarny> ;)
Apr 18 00:45:30 <KotCzarny> and bad coding style?
Apr 18 00:45:31 <KotCzarny> (;
Apr 18 00:45:44 * texel shrugs
Apr 18 00:46:04 <KotCzarny> 'hey, i wonder what that piece of code does'
Apr 18 00:46:38 <KotCzarny> and after it turns out it's used in more than one place every change could be bug inducing
Apr 18 00:46:39 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 00:49:05 <Mousey> sounds like windows coding
Apr 18 00:49:28 <KotCzarny> m$ windows has it's own problems
Apr 18 00:49:31 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 00:51:03 * Mousey installs too many repos and angers his tablet
Apr 18 00:51:49 <KotCzarny> install a perfect os, clone, then break cloned one as many times as you want
Apr 18 00:51:49 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 00:52:07 <Mousey> maybe i _should_ be looking at your clone script
Apr 18 00:52:30 <KotCzarny> let me know if you need link
Apr 18 00:53:38 <Mousey> sure, i'll bite
Apr 18 00:53:55 * Mousey bites
Apr 18 00:55:17 <KotCzarny> http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/clone.sh
Apr 18 01:14:18 <gribouille> does flash work well with OS 2008 ?
Apr 18 01:14:30 <GeneralAntilles> Well enough.
Apr 18 01:14:32 <GeneralAntilles> YouTube works.
Apr 18 01:14:43 <gribouille> and google maps ?
Apr 18 01:14:45 <GeneralAntilles> It's not perfect, but you don't get perfect with a 400MHz ARM. ;)
Apr 18 01:14:50 <GeneralAntilles> Google maps is AJAX
Apr 18 01:14:55 <KotCzarny> use maemo mapper
Apr 18 01:15:08 <gribouille> GeneralAntilles, and does it work too ?
Apr 18 01:15:15 <GeneralAntilles> AJAX performance isn't great on the old Gecko snapshot MicroB is using now.
Apr 18 01:15:16 <GeneralAntilles> It works
Apr 18 01:15:19 <GeneralAntilles> but it's a little slow
Apr 18 01:15:23 <GeneralAntilles> should be a lot faster in Diablo.
Apr 18 01:15:38 <gribouille> GeneralAntilles, what's that Diablo ?
Apr 18 01:16:11 <GeneralAntilles> maemo 4.1
Apr 18 01:16:16 <GeneralAntilles> Next OS2008 release.
Apr 18 01:16:28 <lcuk> if you believe the hype its the lost city of gold
Apr 18 01:16:34 <gribouille> GeneralAntilles, wgen will it be released ?
Apr 18 01:16:40 <GeneralAntilles> "Q2 2008"
Apr 18 01:16:43 <GeneralAntilles> What hype, lcuk?
Apr 18 01:17:56 <lcuk> the general buzz :) i believe a lot of very talented people are working towards this and will make really good improvements :)
Apr 18 01:17:58 <gribouille> do the N800 and N810 work well or not ?
Apr 18 01:18:09 <lcuk> for me yes
Apr 18 01:18:18 <lcuk> its our house computer
Apr 18 01:18:31 <GeneralAntilles> gribouille, nobody can answer that question for you.
Apr 18 01:18:40 <GeneralAntilles> I absolutely love my tablets
Apr 18 01:18:42 <gribouille> I ask this question because the N800 doesn't seem very robust to me
Apr 18 01:18:47 <GeneralAntilles> "robust"?
Apr 18 01:18:54 <GeneralAntilles> They're basically perfect for my purposes.
Apr 18 01:18:55 <KotCzarny> heh.. expectations
Apr 18 01:19:02 <lcuk> its almost never out of use with people surfing the web (slow == better than none), playing games or developing on it
Apr 18 01:19:10 <KotCzarny> grib: you have to know what you're gonna use it for
Apr 18 01:19:15 <KotCzarny> (or any other device)
Apr 18 01:19:23 <gribouille> GeneralAntilles, for some reason, google maps doesn't work anymore on my N800
Apr 18 01:19:33 <KotCzarny> grib: use maemo-mapper
Apr 18 01:19:40 <GeneralAntilles> What are you running?
Apr 18 01:19:43 <GeneralAntilles> Opera on OS2007?
Apr 18 01:19:58 <gribouille> GeneralAntilles, no, I upgraded to OS 2008
Apr 18 01:20:21 <gribouille> KotCzarny, but I want to see satellite photograps too
Apr 18 01:20:31 <KotCzarny> grib: and? just change map source
Apr 18 01:20:32 <GeneralAntilles> gribouille, Maemo Mapper
Apr 18 01:20:33 <KotCzarny> doh!
Apr 18 01:21:08 <gribouille> ok, I'll see
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 18 01:21:56 2008
Apr 18 01:22:18 <GeneralAntilles> ur dad sux!
Apr 18 01:22:31 <gribouille> is r&d mode really useful ?
Apr 18 01:22:39 <GeneralAntilles> Why do you need it?
Apr 18 01:22:43 <lcuk> no hes not, but hes miffed - each map of a small area is about £30
Apr 18 01:22:48 <gribouille> for root access
Apr 18 01:22:58 <lcuk> whats r&d mode?
Apr 18 01:23:08 <GeneralAntilles> Effectively, a normal user get root access without any 3rd party stuff and no power button delay.
Apr 18 01:23:11 <GeneralAntilles> Not much useful
Apr 18 01:23:15 <GeneralAntilles> Just install easyroot.
Apr 18 01:23:39 <lcuk> "no power button delay" ?  what is this voodoo you speak of?
Apr 18 01:23:58 <lcuk> you mean it would actually go off instantly?
Apr 18 01:24:03 <KotCzarny> lcuk: nope
Apr 18 01:24:07 <KotCzarny> boot time option
Apr 18 01:24:08 <GeneralAntilles> Turn on
Apr 18 01:24:58 <gribouille> when flashing the tablet, why does the battery need to be fully charged ?
Apr 18 01:25:19 <GeneralAntilles> So it doesn't suddenly power off during the flashing of NOLO and brick your device.
Apr 18 01:25:36 <GeneralAntilles> It really only needs to have enough juice to stay on for 30 seconds or so.
Apr 18 01:25:41 <GeneralAntilles> But better safe than broken.
Apr 18 01:25:47 <lcuk> no dont tell him that - full charge
Apr 18 01:25:52 <lcuk> always
Apr 18 01:26:12 <GeneralAntilles> Alternatively, you can turn it on while holding down the home key and inserting the barrel charger.
Apr 18 01:26:55 <gribouille> and do we need to wait untill the battery is completely empty to charge it or not ?
Apr 18 01:27:04 <GeneralAntilles> No
Apr 18 01:27:08 <GeneralAntilles> That's exactly what you shouldn't do
Apr 18 01:27:09 <gribouille> lcuk, why ?
Apr 18 01:27:13 <GeneralAntilles> top off whenever you can.
Apr 18 01:27:32 <KotCzarny> false
Apr 18 01:27:39 <gribouille> GeneralAntilles, what shouldn't I do ?
Apr 18 01:27:40 <KotCzarny> it should always be ~40-70%
Apr 18 01:27:47 <GeneralAntilles> Actually, the best recommendation is to use it however is convenient for you.
Apr 18 01:28:05 <KotCzarny> (for battery life)
Apr 18 01:28:05 <GeneralAntilles> Just avoid discharging it down to zero as much as possible.
Apr 18 01:28:31 <lcuk> gribouille, just make sure the battery is charged before flashing.  it is the most important and potentially risk operation you can perform with your device. do not waver from the instructions
Apr 18 01:32:14 <|thunder> Jst plug her in
Apr 18 01:37:08 <|thunder> Thats what i do, turn device off, plug into usb, start flasher3 on ubuntu then plug in to start flash process
Apr 18 01:37:30 <Hrw> hi
Apr 18 01:37:36 <|thunder> Word
Apr 18 01:37:40 <gribouille> |thunder, that's exactly what I did ;-)
Apr 18 01:37:53 <|thunder> Thats the best way
Apr 18 01:38:27 <KotCzarny> heh..
Apr 18 01:38:35 <KotCzarny> i just used mtdtools
Apr 18 01:38:42 <KotCzarny> no usb, no holding buttons
Apr 18 01:38:44 <KotCzarny> no magic
Apr 18 01:38:47 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 01:38:54 <KotCzarny> THAT's the best way
Apr 18 01:38:55 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 01:39:22 <Hrw> KotCzarny: kernel update?
Apr 18 01:39:26 <KotCzarny> too
Apr 18 01:40:24 <|thunder> Im not familiar with that. Usb from ubuntu is ro k solid easy
Apr 18 01:40:40 <KotCzarny> yes, whatever works for you
Apr 18 01:40:49 <KotCzarny> just don't tell that it's the only way
Apr 18 01:40:49 <KotCzarny> :)
Apr 18 01:40:50 <gribouille> btw, is java available ?
Apr 18 01:41:08 <GeneralAntilles> See Jalimo, gribouille.
Apr 18 01:44:25 <|thunder> Jalimo, has browser pluginn ??
Apr 18 01:44:41 <GeneralAntilles> No
Apr 18 01:44:56 <GeneralAntilles> Should be able to run most applets from xterm, though.
Apr 18 01:47:17 <|thunder> That'd  be hot  if someone wrote an app that loaded jvm for cellphone games on one half of the screen and had an onscreen key pad on the left that modeled the layout of a cell  phone.
Apr 18 01:47:54 <|thunder> To play the millions of games for cell phones
Apr 18 01:48:54 <lcuk> but i can do that already?
Apr 18 01:49:16 <Hrw> KotCzarny: is there a way to enable r&d without using flasher tool?
Apr 18 01:49:17 <KotCzarny> and more
Apr 18 01:49:25 <KotCzarny> hrw: yes, it's the only way
Apr 18 01:49:29 <Hrw> ok
Apr 18 01:49:30 <KotCzarny> though, i never used it
Apr 18 01:49:35 <KotCzarny> never needed it
Apr 18 01:49:52 <Hrw> i need to enable it for n800 emu
Apr 18 01:50:10 <unixSnob> how do you folks access a samba share from a NIT file manager?
Apr 18 01:50:27 <Hrw> due to standard lack of sources/infos
Apr 18 01:50:51 <Hrw> unixSnob: normally - via using sylus or keyboard
Apr 18 01:50:56 <termsig> unixSnob: u need install soft
Apr 18 01:51:48 <unixSnob> termsig: which app?
Apr 18 01:52:44 <termsig> what os u using?
Apr 18 01:53:32 <Hrw> os2008 has it done. most apps do not get it anyway
Apr 18 01:55:16 <termsig> http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php and look for mount..
Apr 18 01:55:27 <|thunder> lcuk: you how do you play cell phone games?
Apr 18 01:55:46 <lcuk> on my cell phone.  its in my pocket more than my 810
Apr 18 01:56:42 <|thunder> Lol,    i want them on my 800 with onscreen kb
Apr 18 01:57:06 <|thunder> Not the hildon one though.
Apr 18 01:57:12 <lcuk> i want real new interesting games designed for touch :)
Apr 18 01:57:36 <lcuk> have you played with numptyphysics?
Apr 18 01:57:41 <|thunder> Numpty is nice
Apr 18 01:58:01 <|thunder> I like making trebuchets
Apr 18 01:58:03 <lcuk> it feels good to do real things and get real interaction
Apr 18 01:58:23 <lcuk> we need more :)
Apr 18 01:58:47 <|thunder> Can you all beat all the levels  ?
Apr 18 01:58:56 <lcuk> yes
Apr 18 01:59:12 <|thunder> Find a swf games called squares
Apr 18 01:59:26 <lcuk> flash is not smooth
Apr 18 01:59:28 <|thunder> Google : squares filetype:swf
Apr 18 01:59:36 <lcuk> (numpty isnt but its close enough)
Apr 18 01:59:41 <|thunder> This game is
Apr 18 02:00:46 <|thunder> Squares2
Apr 18 02:01:49 <termsig> guys anyone know good bluetooth modem for n810 with good battery? i want using it with UK "Three" mobile broadband.
Apr 18 02:02:32 <|thunder> No idea
Apr 18 02:02:46 <unixSnob> sorry i was AFK.  I'm using OS2008, and did not see a way to mount a samba share in the file manager
Apr 18 02:03:22 <lcuk> thunder, that game looks wicked on big screen, and can see why it may be nice on device - ill try it tomorrow
Apr 18 02:03:39 <lcuk> thx for hint :) if its smooth enough i might just change my mind a little about flash
Apr 18 02:03:47 <termsig> unixSnob: i said, look on that site..
Apr 18 02:04:37 <unixSnob> k, thanks
Apr 18 02:05:11 <Hrw> unixSnob: there is no way to mount them in FM. it only browse them
Apr 18 02:05:54 <unixSnob> well, browsing is fine for me too
Apr 18 02:06:44 <Hrw> mounting would be nice too - I have lot of music on one share..
Apr 18 02:08:30 <unixSnob> termsig: i searched that page for "mount" nothing came up.. not sure which app you're talking about
Apr 18 02:09:40 <unixSnob> hrw seemed to say browsing samba shares is possible w/ the stock apps, but i don't see how
Apr 18 02:11:57 <|thunder> Its east, just start file manager and itll pop up if available
Apr 18 02:12:34 <|thunder> lcuk: that game owns on n800
Apr 18 02:14:34 <unixSnob> that's a bummer.. my samba shares are not discoverable on some of my platforms
Apr 18 02:14:51 <unixSnob> i hate to rely on discovery
Apr 18 02:15:25 <johnx> there are fuse and smbnetfs packages floating around
Apr 18 02:28:25 <|thunder> See if you can add them to fstab
Apr 18 02:29:04 <|thunder> Ohh,, i guess that would requirw smbnetfs
Apr 18 02:30:06 <johnx> or smbmount
Apr 18 02:30:13 <johnx> and smbfs.ko
Apr 18 02:58:24 <unixSnob> here's a pretty good demo of pro-clips w/ the NIT => http://youtube.com/watch?v=jVemmhhFbEA&feature=related
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 18 02:59:56 2008