**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 25 02:59:57 2008 Apr 25 03:31:30 I just started playing with that NumptyPhysics game last night....and it seems pretty fuckin' cool! Apr 25 03:32:16 Sure is Apr 25 04:04:16 altsld vls, kjd nd;k rpaid ks nft a l800 gl naluvsv{ Apr 25 04:04:35 um Apr 25 04:04:36 goddamn dvorak switching Apr 25 04:04:36 really? Apr 25 04:04:41 aoeu htns? Apr 25 04:05:23 Haha, tsukasa_. Apr 25 04:05:28 I switched a few years ago. Apr 25 04:05:32 anyone know of a place to get a n800 in bangkok? Apr 25 04:05:55 im in the process of learning it Apr 25 04:06:02 Nokia doesn't really sell to asia Apr 25 04:06:06 It's gonna be a pain to find. Apr 25 04:06:36 how about shipped to asia Apr 25 04:07:33 surely some online store does intl shipping Apr 25 04:07:46 Not anything I know of off-hand Apr 25 04:07:51 I can't say I've investigated, though. Apr 25 04:22:17 tsukasa_, I'm in China...I'd be willing to sell you my N800 for the right price (it has a 4 gig sd card with it too) Apr 25 04:23:08 I don't have the box or the docs with it, but I do have the spare stylus and charger with it...I bought it in late January Apr 25 04:23:12 WormFood, not for me my friend, how much? Apr 25 04:24:40 I'd take 1800 RMB for it Apr 25 04:25:01 I got the memory card in usa too (sandisk), so it isn't counterfeit Apr 25 04:25:39 the memory card is useless to me without the n800....it of course comes with the original SD card too, but it is only 128 meg Apr 25 04:25:52 i just bought a counterfit blue dongle Apr 25 04:26:06 dongle for what Apr 25 04:26:12 bluetooth Apr 25 04:26:16 bluetooth Apr 25 04:26:56 its adress was 11.11.11.11.11.11 Apr 25 04:27:36 heh Apr 25 04:28:09 its ok solong as noone near has the szme fake one Apr 25 04:29:11 a spirl? Apr 25 04:29:30 I can get all kinds of counterfeit stuff here ;) Apr 25 04:29:37 I think everything here is counterfeit Apr 25 04:30:20 where are you Apr 25 04:30:25 but I did buy some verbatim DVDs I think are real....and my friend bought some chinese branded DVDs, and every one of those pieces of shit are bvd Apr 25 04:30:31 I'm in Shenzhen Apr 25 04:30:58 or should I say...I'm in 深圳, 中国 Apr 25 04:31:11 i heard in shanghi they counterfit everything but your grandmother Apr 25 04:31:16 indeed Apr 25 04:31:31 Remember the dangerous toys? They are made where I live :D Apr 25 04:32:54 i was in shenzen 20 years ago Apr 25 04:33:04 when it was a fishing village? Apr 25 04:33:11 you wouldn't recognize the city now ;) Apr 25 04:33:52 no there was some development. i didnt notic much i just caught the train Apr 25 04:35:42 so whats the hot counterfit item to have Apr 25 04:37:36 I don't know Apr 25 04:38:07 since almost everything here is counterfeit Apr 25 04:38:38 I even visited a card factory, they make PVC (plastic) cards, like credit cards....and in their samples were counterfeit tags for gucci and omega watches Apr 25 04:38:45 bwhahahaha Apr 25 04:39:06 other counterfeit tags, but I can't remember their names now Apr 25 04:39:10 I have some as samples :D Apr 25 04:39:20 it was pretty cool....they even make smart cards there Apr 25 04:39:54 I saw the milling machines drilling out the cavities for the smart cards, and the machine installing the smart card chips Apr 25 04:40:05 they wouldn't let me take any pictures, but I wanted to Apr 25 04:40:24 so if any of you guys want to get business cards made, I can do some pretty cool stuff at a very reasonable price Apr 25 04:41:10 they can even make transparent cards...holograms...gold and silver reflective decorations....anything you've seen before, they can make Apr 25 04:41:53 raised lettering, like on credit cards, pictures.....every type of card I've ever seen, they can make....magnetic stripes...freaking amazing Apr 25 04:42:28 im the only guy in northamerica who doesntt have a platnem card Apr 25 04:43:17 I guess so Apr 25 04:43:20 hehehe Apr 25 04:43:49 I don't even own a credit card, but I have 2 with my name on them Apr 25 04:43:49 hhhhmmmm Apr 25 04:44:02 are there fake nokias Apr 25 04:44:04 my mom added me to her credit card accounts, and I now have 2 credit cards in my name, but not my account Apr 25 04:44:07 I don't know Apr 25 04:44:19 I saw a nokia factory here Apr 25 04:44:25 I think the nokia factory was in dongguan Apr 25 04:48:10 I know there are counterfeit batteries all over the place Apr 25 04:48:35 some of them work ok Apr 25 04:48:58 I bought a "new" battery for my laptop for under $30 Apr 25 04:51:09 any chep small laptops Apr 25 04:51:31 cheap Apr 25 04:51:49 I can get used IBM thinkpads here all day long Apr 25 04:52:02 the electronics and computer flea markets here are incredible Apr 25 04:52:30 funny thing is, new laptops here cost just as much as in usa....and the make the fuckers here! Apr 25 04:52:43 hey, any idea how to install existing debs with sb2? Apr 25 04:52:52 sb2 dpkg -i libicu36_3.6-2_armel.deb: dpkg: requested operation requires superuser privilege Apr 25 04:53:04 alp, prepend with 'fakeroot' Apr 25 04:53:20 make yourself root Apr 25 04:53:35 I like the "root" package best, because you just type "root" and you become root Apr 25 04:55:53 czr: now complains that package architecture (armel) does not match system (i386), even though chinook40_armel is selected with sb2-config Apr 25 04:56:07 what about sb2 fakeroot dpkg ... Apr 25 04:57:17 neither way round does it. Apr 25 04:57:34 same dpkg error Apr 25 04:57:43 * czr shrugs then Apr 25 04:57:46 haven't used sb2 Apr 25 04:59:10 thanks, got me a bit further at least Apr 25 05:01:59 can someone do me a favour and bookmark www.engadget.com (without visiting the site) then visit the site and tell me what the icon looks like in the bookmarks? Apr 25 05:15:12 personal menu = safe? Apr 25 05:15:58 i haven't backed up yet the tablet and it's in a pretty nice spot Apr 25 05:16:05 just wondering. Apr 25 05:23:21 Perfectly, n800n. Apr 25 05:23:55 cool Apr 25 05:31:50 hm what would be the reason for app dld/installing to hang? Apr 25 05:34:11 What are you installing? Apr 25 05:35:40 p menu off the maemo site Apr 25 05:43:17 n800 usualy requiring user intervention Apr 25 05:52:44 the instal instructions bad i think, it worked thru app manager Apr 25 06:10:45 <_polto_> hello Apr 25 06:14:28 ht Apr 25 06:14:30 hi Apr 25 06:16:37 hi Apr 25 06:18:30 does firefox plugins work for the n800? Apr 25 06:20:30 <_polto_> I think some people here would be happy to see this: http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?title=GeoTagging & http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?title=Pricing/Discount/Donation_Policy#Free_of_charge_camera_for_developers Apr 25 07:58:58 Hello :) Apr 25 08:02:01 V2-Day oggi ,andate a votare i 3 referendum mi raccomando ! Apr 25 08:05:54 ?? Apr 25 08:06:09 p|: wtf? :) Apr 25 08:06:26 which referendum? Apr 25 08:10:14 what is a type `sb2 debuild args` for cross compiling with maemo chinook ? Apr 25 08:12:09 ? Apr 25 08:14:01 s/type/typical Apr 25 08:14:13 hendry: `sb2' is Scratchbox 2 - a newer build system for developing maemo. `debuild' is a Debian command for building .deb files for a source tree. `args' correspon... ah Apr 25 08:16:51 my debuild seems to still think it's in a 486 environ Apr 25 08:16:57 instead of the arm Apr 25 08:17:08 i am guess i need to pass an architecture argument Apr 25 08:17:17 what bootstrap are you using for sb2? Apr 25 08:18:40 chinook Apr 25 08:18:48 armel or x86? Apr 25 08:19:01 there are two, I think Apr 25 08:19:22 i am a little confused here Apr 25 08:19:32 why there is a x86 bootstrap there Apr 25 08:19:37 For debugging Apr 25 08:19:42 because don't I obviously want to build for arm Apr 25 08:19:47 You debug on PC using x86 boostrap Apr 25 08:19:48 well i want to build for arm Apr 25 08:19:54 oh Apr 25 08:19:58 Then use armel boostrap for release Apr 25 08:20:02 ok, well, I just want to compile this arm Apr 25 08:20:09 RST38h: how do i select that please? Apr 25 08:20:22 (In fact, I never build with x86 bootstrap - it is pretty useless because it behaves differently from the armel] Apr 25 08:20:30 RST38h: word Apr 25 08:20:36 hendry: I do not remember - refer to sb2 manual Apr 25 08:20:47 * RST38h has done it once and forgot Apr 25 08:22:37 * Jaffa hasn't used sb2 much yet Apr 25 08:22:50 Jaffa: you should, it is such a relief... Apr 25 08:23:30 I am basically building from the same source base as Unix/Windows/MSDOS/etc and even the Makefile is pretty much the same as the Unix one Apr 25 08:34:38 Hi ! Apr 25 08:55:35 Are there SIP and IAX clients for mameo ? Apr 25 08:57:23 gizmo talks sip Apr 25 08:57:25 SIP: Gizmo & rtcomm-beta. Dunno about IAX Apr 25 08:57:33 and rtcomm-beta too indeed Apr 25 08:58:12 * Jaffa should get around to trying that, but I'm too busy reformatting my internal SD card which has finally been bitten by the corruption bug. Apr 25 08:58:16 Colour me unimpressed. Apr 25 08:58:27 :) Apr 25 08:58:30 jaffa, n810 ? Apr 25 08:58:33 aye Apr 25 08:58:48 it should be written with big letters on maemo.org Apr 25 08:59:03 that factory default is a time bomb Apr 25 08:59:15 It's really nasty Apr 25 08:59:36 it's just a wrong size Apr 25 08:59:46 bigger than physical geometry Apr 25 09:00:00 few kb more, but enough to corrupt sooner or later Apr 25 09:00:31 I wonder whether the next firmware update will come with the same problem... Apr 25 09:00:47 and i have observed that on original n-gage it also creates wrong partition size Apr 25 09:01:13 rst: firmware update would have to repartition sd on n810 Apr 25 09:01:30 and i doubt they will risk overwriting user's data Apr 25 09:01:40 that factory default is a time bomb ?? Apr 25 09:01:46 Doesn;t it wipe mmc2 when installing? Apr 25 09:01:48 khertan: yes Apr 25 09:01:51 do sfdisk -l Apr 25 09:01:54 and see for yourself Apr 25 09:02:07 partition size blocks is bigger than physical gemetry Apr 25 09:02:10 geometry Apr 25 09:02:23 rst: i don't know, i have n800 Apr 25 09:02:32 sfdisk ? Apr 25 09:02:38 khertan: yes Apr 25 09:02:50 it will list your partitions Apr 25 09:03:03 ah hum ... sorry path is incorrect for user Apr 25 09:03:13 you have to be root Apr 25 09:03:19 you can try /sbin/sfdisk -l Apr 25 09:03:29 what i ve done Apr 25 09:04:23 RST38h: reflashing doesn't touch either internal or external SD cards Apr 25 09:04:33 mmcb1k1p1 start expected (3,29,9) found (0,130,3) Apr 25 09:04:38 ouch Apr 25 09:05:05 hopefully it only store swap ... :) Apr 25 09:05:15 and temporary video Apr 25 09:05:39 and part of the built-in map install Apr 25 09:05:50 i assume they do some tricks with geometry to hide some lock data Apr 25 09:05:51 Jaffa: Good to know (I have got stuff on mmc2) Apr 25 09:06:16 at least that was the case on n-gage Apr 25 09:08:01 and i think once disk gets full it hits physical gemetry boundary and writes on the beginning of the card Apr 25 09:08:02 :> Apr 25 09:08:34 *geometry Apr 25 09:08:41 Exactly. I filled mine up with music thinking I'd corrected the partition size mismatch, but hadn't. Apr 25 09:09:34 i wonder if there is a bug filled for that Apr 25 09:09:56 For the size mismatch or the fact the kernel could handle it as a bugfix? Apr 25 09:10:15 for the wrong partition size Apr 25 09:11:03 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2940 Apr 25 09:12:25 so a simple format from file manager correct it ? Apr 25 09:12:26 no resolution Apr 25 09:12:27 hum Apr 25 09:12:30 no Apr 25 09:12:33 arg Apr 25 09:12:35 you have to repartition it Apr 25 09:12:44 format doesn't touch partition table Apr 25 09:12:48 hum ... yes Apr 25 09:12:50 i m stupid Apr 25 09:12:54 :) Apr 25 09:13:04 Didn't someone say a format in Windows would do it? Apr 25 09:13:34 resolution is a simple one liner Apr 25 09:13:37 Are you really going to take advice from someone who uses Windows? Apr 25 09:13:39 sfdisk && mkdosfs Apr 25 09:14:02 derf: do I trust anything running on the device itself when it comes to partitioning these days? Apr 25 09:14:05 i don't have access to n810 do i can't provide numbers Apr 25 09:14:19 Oh, I repartitioned over USB, sure. Apr 25 09:14:20 *so Apr 25 09:14:39 Can the N810 get an internet connection via USB ? Apr 25 09:14:41 And blew away the steaming pile of crap that is FAT to replace it with ext3, while I was at it. Apr 25 09:14:45 hum how do u do a & on the n810 keyboard ? Apr 25 09:14:57 shift 7 ? Apr 25 09:14:58 :) Apr 25 09:15:33 (i ve this stupid keyboard ... nammed azerty) Apr 25 09:15:51 Astoundingly, all of the SD-card related instabilities I'd been experiencing vanished when I dropped FAT. Apr 25 09:15:53 derf: i have left vfat, some packages rely on /media/mmc2 Apr 25 09:16:11 It's still mounted at /media/mmc2 Apr 25 09:16:32 It's just using a real filesystem now. Apr 25 09:16:36 i boot from it Apr 25 09:16:37 :) Apr 25 09:17:00 Well, no one says you can't have _two_ partitions that both use a real filesystem. Apr 25 09:17:12 ok ok :) Apr 25 09:17:31 Bug 2802 appears to be a duplicate; although I might have accidentally hijacked Apr 25 09:17:31 it for a different bug (filesystem corruption even when the partition is Apr 25 09:17:31 smaller than the device size). Apr 25 09:17:40 heh, vfat fun? Apr 25 09:18:03 vfat isn't a filesystem ... it s well know Apr 25 09:18:35 my guess nokia plays some tricks with it Apr 25 09:19:07 It's not even just the filesystem... the kernel's implementation seems to interact very badly with the mmc driver. Apr 25 09:19:45 While ext3 does not... presumably because whoever wrote the ext3 filesystem for the kernel actually knew what they were doing. Apr 25 09:20:45 But with FAT I would get constant failures to read the card, even claiming the entire thing was corrupt, and I'd power-cycle the thing and everything would look fine (for 30 minutes or so, anyway). Apr 25 09:21:40 has anyone seen the 32gb SDHC chips for sale anywhere? Apr 25 09:22:04 I've only found one on google shopping for over $400. kinda ridiculous Apr 25 09:23:20 ..on a preorder? ;) Apr 25 09:25:15 I'm not sure. I didn't even click that far to find out when I saw the pricetag Apr 25 09:25:34 and yeah, it is a preorder =) Apr 25 09:27:11 That would make a 64gb n800 cost a grand Apr 25 09:27:45 imagine corrupting 32gb Apr 25 09:27:53 hihi Apr 25 09:28:05 morning Apr 25 09:28:09 Yeah, and at that point it would have more storage than a lot of sub-$1000 laptops. Apr 25 09:28:12 mourning Apr 25 09:29:00 2x cf -- ide adapter is ~30$ Apr 25 09:29:14 and high capacity cf cards are cheaper Apr 25 09:29:19 Yeah but it wouldn't be in the sub $1000 catagory itself Apr 25 09:29:44 120$ for 32gb cf Apr 25 09:30:09 just plug in a real harddrive into your N800 =) Apr 25 09:30:15 nah Apr 25 09:30:20 i hate spinning drives Apr 25 09:30:27 yeah SSD is the way to go =) Apr 25 09:31:24 if i had that kinda money though I'd just pay some folks to engineer me a n1000 Apr 25 09:31:41 nope, you will e on hawaii Apr 25 09:31:45 *be Apr 25 09:32:32 no I'd much prefer an n1000 Apr 25 09:32:59 with its terrabyte of storage, integrated mobile nvidia 8800, and built in expresso maker Apr 25 09:34:37 how about a custo mfitted brain plug? Apr 25 09:35:00 for watching those movies, you know Apr 25 09:37:05 RST38h: a brain plug??? why on earth would I do that Apr 25 09:37:28 when I could just get a bluetooth brain Apr 25 09:38:20 Does maemo have a terminal application ? Apr 25 09:38:25 yes Apr 25 09:38:33 cool Apr 25 09:39:55 xterm Apr 25 09:39:56 cool Apr 25 09:44:54 woodwizzle: does it mean that your eyes will blink blue when activ3e? Apr 25 09:46:16 no because I need to know when I'm active, not people looking at me. Apr 25 09:46:46 but pairing is difficult task. Apr 25 09:48:26 Does the N810 have a GPS chipset / Apr 25 09:48:27 ? Apr 25 09:50:08 yep Apr 25 09:50:21 I mean can it do GPS alone without the need of any other devices ? Apr 25 09:51:24 CVirus: yup Apr 25 09:51:33 cool Apr 25 09:51:49 Though from my understanding its kinda 2nd rate GPS Apr 25 09:52:11 an external device will increase the accuracy of it Apr 25 09:52:32 I see Apr 25 09:53:44 That said, know I don't own an n810 so this is just hearsay =) Apr 25 09:58:12 I haven't really done any accuracy comparitions, but I think the problem is more that it takes time to get a fix than that it's less accurate once it has gotten the fix. Apr 25 10:01:05 How many minutes / Apr 25 10:07:55 cool .. pimlico works on the maemo Apr 25 10:08:00 * CVirus is considering an N810 Apr 25 10:08:36 CVirus: several. haven't timed it, but for me it's long ;) Apr 25 10:09:43 I've been waiting for over a year now for OM Apr 25 10:09:47 good morning Apr 25 10:09:56 but that last video issue made me re-consider it Apr 25 10:10:11 i'll buy an N810 and wait for GTA03 Apr 25 10:15:28 CVirus: whats the video issue exactly? Apr 25 10:15:29 lo florian Apr 25 10:16:33 trickie: the FreeRunner won't be able to play videos ... check the mailing list for more accurate info Apr 25 10:16:50 CVirus: ah damn, ok will do Apr 25 10:33:08 CVirus > yes pimlico works ... but it s a bit small to be usefull (for me) Apr 25 10:33:50 (gpe too :) ) Apr 25 10:36:01 Khertan: what do you use then ? Apr 25 10:36:08 Khertan: what do you mean? Apr 25 10:36:35 mCalendar ... :) but a it s unfinished ... and far to be perfect too Apr 25 10:37:16 woodwizzle> i mean, i always need to sort out the stylus, then use a bit the keyboard, click, click, click again with the stylus Apr 25 10:37:31 i don't found the gui very well thinked for a device like the n810 Apr 25 10:37:40 should be normal as it s a port Apr 25 10:37:52 Khertan: what do you use ? Apr 25 10:37:59 i use mCalendar Apr 25 10:38:36 can you sync mCalendar with evolution? Apr 25 10:38:41 no Apr 25 10:38:49 :( Apr 25 10:39:03 as the binding for python isn't ready Apr 25 10:39:17 but i m studying sincing with google calendar Apr 25 10:39:37 as evolution can be sync with google calendar ... it should not be a prob Apr 25 10:47:16 Does anyone know the format of the Maemo LinuxTag presentations/talks? Apr 25 10:50:12 hi hrw Apr 25 10:50:16 morning Apr 25 10:54:35 fwiw: Statusbarclock updated for Chinook: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/n770/statusbarclock_0.7_armel.deb Apr 25 10:55:33 nomis: Would you like to add your packages to maemo extas? Apr 25 10:56:19 nomis: where I can see screenshot of it? Apr 25 10:56:46 hrw: it still looks basically the same as here: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/n770/statusbar.png Apr 25 10:57:04 X-Fade: how complicated is that? Apr 25 10:57:43 nomis: Upload with dput? :) Apr 25 10:58:14 nomis: ah. that one Apr 25 10:58:38 nomis: still cannot be switched digital/analog without switching maemo clock? Apr 25 10:58:54 hrw: I already have some prototypeish code that matches the new design and uses cairo for drawing. Apr 25 10:59:23 hrw: no. I am hesitant to add configuration dialog and lots of bloat for that trivial piece of software. Apr 25 10:59:48 ok Apr 25 10:59:56 X-Fade: how is the authentication handled? Apr 25 11:01:03 nomis: You will get an ivitation from garage with explanation. You need to upload your ssh pubkey for upload and pgp key for package signing. Apr 25 11:01:35 X-Fade: it probably helps that statusbarclock already lives at garage? Apr 25 11:03:42 nomis: Sure. You should receive an invitation in your mail shortly. Apr 25 11:15:54 * nomis feels stupid. Apr 25 11:16:05 how do I get an ascii armored version of my public pgp key? Apr 25 11:16:14 gpg even. Apr 25 11:16:30 man gpg? Apr 25 11:21:18 aquatix: this leads me to "gpg -a --export " which garage refuses to accept. Apr 25 11:22:13 (and is a huge blob btw. It might include all the signatures) Apr 25 11:22:16 hm Apr 25 11:27:40 mhm, now it worked. I must have mis-pasted. Apr 25 11:28:59 ah :) Apr 25 11:29:11 maybe a stray space somewhere or something Apr 25 11:38:42 upload done. Apr 25 11:39:26 nomis: ooh, analog clock? Apr 25 11:39:38 in status bar, nice Apr 25 11:39:40 * aquatix wants Apr 25 11:40:34 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/statusbar-clock/ ? Apr 25 11:45:22 aquatix: yep. Apr 25 11:45:58 aquatix: it needs slight adjustments to the design for chinook which I have not yet completed (#ifdeffed out in the source). Apr 25 11:46:21 (off for some food) Apr 25 12:00:46 ok, I'm lazy... Apr 25 12:01:13 isn Apr 25 12:01:19 t everybody? Apr 25 12:01:30 could someone build me a btrfs-unstable kernel module for maemo Apr 25 12:01:50 for that 2.6.21-osso1? Apr 25 12:03:19 it's currently the best FS for flash Apr 25 12:04:36 unstable though Apr 25 12:04:54 more like unfinished Apr 25 12:05:09 it doesn't break randomly like Reiser4 Apr 25 12:05:23 Reiser..heheh Apr 25 12:05:39 especially good in conjunction with "breaks randomly" Apr 25 12:06:00 RST38h: i still haven't gotten 60fps real display on the NES emu :( Apr 25 12:06:13 RST38h: only v4 Apr 25 12:06:20 v3 is stable Apr 25 12:06:47 v4 adds slow moments, like, hangs Apr 25 12:07:09 now, after v. long time, it doesn't self-destruct Apr 25 12:07:13 AStorm: No, I mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser#Court_appearances Apr 25 12:07:32 ah, that Apr 25 12:07:35 pupnik: Why do you need 60fps? Apr 25 12:07:41 AStorm, http://inz.fi/brtfs.ko Apr 25 12:07:58 inz: current unstable? Apr 25 12:08:14 i don't like the tearing, and some games flash sprites every other frame Apr 25 12:08:20 ah Apr 25 12:08:22 so when you get hit Apr 25 12:08:24 AStorm, 0.13 Apr 25 12:08:24 inz: 4oh4 Apr 25 12:08:30 if you have frameskip 1, your character disappears Apr 25 12:08:35 inz: nah, gimme unstable :) Apr 25 12:08:52 "stable" is crashy :) Apr 25 12:08:53 pupnik: Will non-integer frameskip help the problem? Apr 25 12:09:16 pupnik: as in "draw 60% of frames"? Apr 25 12:09:16 yeah when i disable frameskip the flashing is ok... it flashes enough Apr 25 12:09:32 but it's just depressing to not have 60fps in perfect sync Apr 25 12:09:44 pupnik: it is nothing unusual Apr 25 12:09:54 the device has to do a lot of work Apr 25 12:10:02 pupnik_: perfect? is *anything* perfect? Apr 25 12:10:22 AStorm, meh, you're quite demanding Apr 25 12:10:27 and it is not exactly a speed demon Apr 25 12:10:30 you'd have to get like, asm-perfect representation Apr 25 12:10:34 AStorm, you should say such request _in advance_ Apr 25 12:10:37 it can be perfect i think. i just need to work on it Apr 25 12:10:44 inz: just the module and maybe tools too Apr 25 12:10:45 * RST38h has 6502 emulation in assembler Apr 25 12:10:54 cool Apr 25 12:10:58 Don't think it is a silver bullet though Apr 25 12:11:04 AStorm, same url, new version Apr 25 12:11:04 RST38h: whee, C64! Apr 25 12:11:10 oh speed is ok. i get 60fps on 770 Apr 25 12:11:22 inz, great, but it was 4oh4 last time Apr 25 12:11:37 inz: still... Apr 25 12:11:42 so it is only the N800/810 video hardware that causes problems? Apr 25 12:11:45 fix that 404 Apr 25 12:12:35 * pupnik_ will try to get work done over the weekend Apr 25 12:13:25 inz: so? Apr 25 12:13:50 nomis: hm, do you have a download link? the applet isn't in the download section yet Apr 25 12:15:27 inz: you got my hopes up, damn you ;) Apr 25 12:15:30 AStorm, oh, fix the typo in the url Apr 25 12:15:52 lol, indeed Apr 25 12:18:17 Meh, need to build e2fsprogs too... Apr 25 12:21:50 AStorm/RST38h: Feh, forget C64 - BBC Micro much more fuuuuuuuun :-) Apr 25 12:22:02 hehe Apr 25 12:22:09 never seeen it Apr 25 12:23:05 hmm Apr 25 12:23:17 I need non-broken module-init-tools Apr 25 12:24:53 use insmod? Apr 25 12:24:59 http://www.anders.com/lectures/lars_brownworth/12_byzantine_rulers/ Apr 25 12:25:21 nice podcast. Apr 25 12:25:41 inz: nah, I've got it now Apr 25 12:25:45 but... Apr 25 12:25:52 * RST38h didn't have either Apr 25 12:25:57 you didn't gie me crc module Apr 25 12:26:10 *give Apr 25 12:26:16 Hmm, it should be built in the kernel, shouldn't it Apr 25 12:26:32 it isn't, apparently Apr 25 12:26:46 meh Apr 25 12:26:54 [193178.710937] btrfs: Unknown symbol crc32c_le Apr 25 12:27:07 ande Apr 25 12:27:09 [193178.726562] btrfs: Unknown symbol write_cache_pages Apr 25 12:27:24 the latter is weird :P Apr 25 12:28:24 http://inz.fi/libcrc32c.ko Apr 25 12:28:26 Is that the one? Apr 25 12:28:32 most likely Apr 25 12:29:47 still, write_cache_pages is unknown Apr 25 12:29:56 Hmm Apr 25 12:31:28 http://inz.fi/btrfs-progs_0.14+mcr20080425-0inz1_armel.deb Apr 25 12:31:38 I'll try to figure out the cache pages... Apr 25 12:31:39 mhm Apr 25 12:32:27 Hmm, the write_cache_pages is a static funcion in btrfs Apr 25 12:32:30 I wonder... Apr 25 12:33:29 A-ha Apr 25 12:33:44 huhu ... is there a way to patch hildon.TimePicker to use my own widget ? Apr 25 12:34:02 AStorm, try the kernel module again now Apr 25 12:34:09 ok Apr 25 12:34:46 AStorm, they have taken core from 2.6.23, but had version check < 2.6.20 Apr 25 12:34:52 -r+d Apr 25 12:35:09 hehehe Apr 25 12:35:53 Does the module load now? Apr 25 12:36:20 inz: is that really the unstable tree? Apr 25 12:36:29 cmason is telling me it's been fixed Apr 25 12:36:49 AStorm, I pulled the tip.gz from the unstable mercurial Apr 25 12:37:13 ok Apr 25 12:37:24 he admitted it's wrong :) Apr 25 12:37:27 :P Apr 25 12:37:58 inz: where's the mkfs? Apr 25 12:38:01 :P Apr 25 12:38:17 aquatix: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/n770/statusbarclock_0.7_armel.deb Apr 25 12:38:36 AStorm, in the .deb Apr 25 12:38:49 AStorm, mkfs.btrfs Apr 25 12:39:06 hmm, I hmust've missed it Apr 25 12:39:20 ya, silly me Apr 25 12:40:23 inz: be sure to mount it with nodatasum and ssd Apr 25 12:40:41 w/o first it'll kill the cpu Apr 25 12:40:58 and second is block allocator tweak Apr 25 12:41:38 hmmhmm Apr 25 12:41:57 I'll have to add this module to initfs :) Apr 25 12:42:41 I wonder why they had to use separate flash for initfs and not just a partition Apr 25 12:42:46 AStorm, I don't have any intention to use it Apr 25 12:42:57 inz: mhm Apr 25 12:43:27 I'll tell you how it flies Apr 25 12:43:27 should be the fastest on flash Apr 25 12:43:43 maybe except jffs2 (but that's a big maybe) Apr 25 12:45:04 hmm, now I'll need that SDHC overdrive kernel ;) Apr 25 12:45:13 but that one I'll build myself Apr 25 12:45:29 Aren't there readily built ones? Apr 25 12:46:27 fanoush', older ones Apr 25 12:46:38 but these have no sysfs or proc switch Apr 25 12:46:44 ah Apr 25 12:47:24 I'd need info on building a newer kernel Apr 25 12:47:53 How new do you need? Apr 25 12:48:22 I wonder... do b*e and dsme work with GPIO using standard interface? Apr 25 12:48:22 You'll probably need to rebuild some other stuff too and create new initfs, if you change the kernel version Apr 25 12:48:36 inz: sure esp. wifi driver Apr 25 12:48:50 bt is standard I recon? Apr 25 12:48:56 I guess so Apr 25 12:49:10 I also dunno if gps needs some module Apr 25 12:50:10 inz: the idea is to get CFS (new cpu sched) Apr 25 12:50:18 it might be a `serial' device, only needing the daemon Apr 25 12:50:30 if you could manage to backport it, it'd be a win Apr 25 12:50:51 there were some old versions for 2.6.21 too Apr 25 12:51:15 I'll try a backport myself Apr 25 12:51:29 some git cherry picking Apr 25 12:56:11 inz: I need -omap sources probably Apr 25 12:56:37 unless the wifi works with 2.6.23 or newer Apr 25 12:56:50 (ofc. linux-omap branch) Apr 25 13:00:53 AStorm, yes, linux-omap is a wise choice ;) Apr 25 13:01:57 inz: mhm, let's see how well will the cross 4.2.3 work Apr 25 13:03:24 need gcc 4.2.3 on the tablet too Apr 25 13:03:35 ofc. with libstdc++-v3 Apr 25 13:11:47 hi every one Apr 25 13:12:20 I just got my n810 tablet, but I'm facing some problems Apr 25 13:12:36 yay for problems! Apr 25 13:12:56 basically, the device doesn't start the interface, it just loads then stops Apr 25 13:13:19 KhaledHosny: did you install external software? Apr 25 13:13:40 i designed a new windows specific keyboard: http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/PICT0710.jpg Apr 25 13:13:50 O_o Apr 25 13:14:11 nomis: nope, it just worked for less than a minute, then rebooted itself and entered a loop of rebooting Apr 25 13:14:21 eek. Apr 25 13:14:26 Cptnodegard, funny Apr 25 13:14:46 KhaledHosny, flash your N810 with the latest image Apr 25 13:15:03 nomis: I reflaseh it with the latest os, but it get worse, it doesn't even reach the "connecting people" screen wany more Apr 25 13:15:13 Cptnodegard: :) Apr 25 13:15:29 computer crashed again... so i was inspired to make a dedicated keyboard Apr 25 13:15:37 :P Apr 25 13:15:57 I have my BSoD screensaver bound to C+A+D Apr 25 13:16:01 Navi: I already did ^^^ Apr 25 13:16:06 lol Apr 25 13:16:40 So whenever a friend manages to freeze something, he/she hits ctrl+alt+del and it BSoDs Apr 25 13:17:02 They still haven't figured it out ^^ Apr 25 13:17:15 lol thats brilliantly evil :D Apr 25 13:18:22 my friends are easier to fool... at school with their lappys, when they run out i just prntscrn, put it in paint, flips 180 degrees, view fulslcreen and pull out the usb mouse Apr 25 13:18:36 :P Apr 25 13:19:26 It's an internal joke I like to keep Apr 25 13:19:40 "I thought you said that Linux doesn't get BSoDs :(" Apr 25 13:19:51 lol Apr 25 13:20:15 make it purple next time and tell them "i told you, no blue screen of death" Apr 25 13:20:25 lol Apr 25 13:20:29 KhaledHosny: that doesn't sound good. Apr 25 13:20:45 ooops sorry, wrong room Apr 25 13:20:55 ... Apr 25 13:21:31 o0 Apr 25 13:21:42 stll the wrong room Apr 25 13:21:51 ok, i did that to see - i really thought someone would have registered maemo Apr 25 13:22:14 nah most people in here have better imagination than that Apr 25 13:22:32 but if i leave the room, does that mean you lot are left in # channel Apr 25 13:23:13 yes, if you leave we all just diappear Apr 25 13:23:34 thats much better than flipping mouse buttons and stuff ;) Apr 25 13:24:06 nomis: I'm not sure what I should do now, is there a way I can debug this? Apr 25 13:24:33 KhaledHosny: did you buy your device from new? Apr 25 13:24:54 KhaledHosny: I have no idea. If reflashing the device does not help I am out of ideas. Apr 25 13:25:20 hey, is it possible to have multiple initfses on N? Apr 25 13:25:21 if reflashing does not work it points heavily towards some type of hardware problem Apr 25 13:25:26 maemo: yup, through the developer program Apr 25 13:25:34 have you charged the battery all the way? Apr 25 13:25:45 nomis: thanks anyway Apr 25 13:26:02 KhaledHosny: did it work correctly until very recently? Apr 25 13:26:46 maemo: I just got it, it worked for only less than a minute Apr 25 13:27:16 take the battery out for a while. put it back in, leave it off but charging up for a few hours Apr 25 13:27:25 dont try flashing until after the battery is fully charged Apr 25 13:27:46 before reflashing, I was able to boot it few times, but it reboots quickely Apr 25 13:28:09 tbh it sounds like a flat battery Apr 25 13:28:09 I'll try this Apr 25 13:28:41 if you still cannot do anything with it after a proper charge Apr 25 13:29:14 then start to look again and maybe consider getting an RMA Apr 25 13:29:52 seconded Apr 25 13:30:36 * Navi yawns Apr 25 13:30:54 Anybody remembers a command line utility name to deal with shm blocks? Apr 25 13:30:59 Listing, deleting, etc, Apr 25 13:31:52 lets hope this will solve it, as returning it will be a big problem Apr 25 13:32:05 inz: could you post the .config somewhere? Apr 25 13:33:58 KhaledHosny: with any new device its wise to fully charge the battery before hand and read the getting started whilst doing it :) i hope it solves your problem Apr 25 13:36:12 maemo: I thought I fully charged it, but since I can't read the "getting started" manual (there wasn't an english one, why I ordered it in finland!) I feel lost Apr 25 13:37:21 * maemo ordered himself direct from nokia in the uk Apr 25 13:38:11 when you were charging it, did it display on the screen that it was charging? or did it just stay blank and off? Apr 25 13:38:37 'maemo' is an awfully confusing nick Apr 25 13:39:21 hmm, is the wifi in N8x0 a Prism54? Apr 25 13:39:26 nope Apr 25 13:39:27 I see the charging indicator on the screen Apr 25 13:39:33 it's a cx3110x IIRC Apr 25 13:39:38 KhaledHosny: Did you flash your device with the latest firmware yet? Apr 25 13:39:48 johnx: that's a wrapper Apr 25 13:40:10 the trick is that it loads Prism54 firmware according to the log Apr 25 13:40:16 X-Fade: I did Apr 25 13:40:21 some weird scheme Apr 25 13:40:25 well that's interesting O_o Apr 25 13:40:56 KhaledHosny: Nobody with a similar battery near you? So you can test? Apr 25 13:41:03 damn Apr 25 13:41:17 any better? Apr 25 13:41:42 blah Apr 25 13:41:50 why not just jaffas? Apr 25 13:41:58 cos the nick was clipped Apr 25 13:42:10 otherwise i would have rotated him 180degress Apr 25 13:42:17 hmm Apr 25 13:42:24 X-Fade: I don't think so, but I'll look Apr 25 13:42:32 what's the touchscreen used by N$ Apr 25 13:42:36 N? Apr 25 13:43:29 heh Apr 25 13:43:56 :| Apr 25 13:46:51 and which Taos sensor is in N810? Apr 25 13:47:01 AStorm, erm, I used make nokia_2420_defconfig Apr 25 13:47:06 2550 or 2563 Apr 25 13:47:11 inz: gimme Apr 25 13:47:54 it comes with the nokia kernel source, IIRC Apr 25 13:48:01 doesn't it? Apr 25 13:48:18 AStorm, http://inz.fi/nokia_2420_defconfig Apr 25 13:48:25 johnx, yes it does Apr 25 13:56:45 does anyone know if the sdict wikipedia is mirorred anywhere other than the sdviewer site? Apr 25 14:04:39 It's ipcs! Apr 25 14:11:26 if i can't see my package via the Application Manager... can I assume it's because it isn't signed? Apr 25 14:11:49 unsigned packages show up Apr 25 14:12:02 hendry: i guess you updated the list? Apr 25 14:12:07 only packages with "Section: user/*" show up in app manager Apr 25 14:12:25 johnx: ah the section Apr 25 14:12:34 * being any arbitrary string Apr 25 14:13:34 * hendry wonders if a Debian package have more than one section Apr 25 14:21:02 I get a "software contains updates from a different source" error message trying to update my package Apr 25 14:21:33 remove it completely and reinstall Apr 25 14:21:51 you probably installed some of its parts from a different repository a while ago Apr 25 14:21:54 it happens if you installed package "foo" from repo "a" and an update is available from repo "b" Apr 25 14:22:18 what is RMA? Apr 25 14:22:44 RST38h: you're right :) Apr 25 14:22:49 hendry: I've been getting that too Apr 25 14:22:51 RMA - process of returning a defective item back to the manufacturer Apr 25 14:23:04 ah thanks Apr 25 14:23:06 lardman: removed my previous package Apr 25 14:23:16 For me it appears with the map application Apr 25 14:23:23 I can't really see why it would happen Apr 25 14:23:47 lardman: remove the map app and reinstall Apr 25 14:23:50 known issue Apr 25 14:23:58 the repository changed i think Apr 25 14:24:10 ah, I see Apr 25 14:24:37 works fine now here :) Apr 25 14:26:24 anyone know about "rep2"? http://kimitakeblog.net/item/591/catid/24 Apr 25 14:26:38 rah ::!!!!! IDLE on windows is a calamity Apr 25 14:30:13 The other thing that appears to have happened is that lots of packages are now dependencies of Octave and Gnuplot. I'm not quite sure what I did to screw their control files up to make that happen Apr 25 14:30:15 etrunko: ping? Apr 25 14:32:42 Is there a port of Octave for ITT? Apr 25 14:33:47 of course Apr 25 14:33:54 it's just a recompile Apr 25 14:34:09 not much porting needed really :) Apr 25 14:34:53 a bit off the topic but: any idea why i lost hdb, hdc and hdd when I upgraded to ubuntu. Bios sees disks but ubuntu says they dont exist. fdisk -l doesnt list them Apr 25 14:35:04 everything worked just fine before upgrade :) Apr 25 14:35:30 are they now treated as sda(a-d) ? Apr 25 14:35:52 well i have mixture of ide and sda disks Apr 25 14:35:57 ide disks are missing Apr 25 14:36:02 sda works fine Apr 25 14:36:27 but Apr 25 14:36:33 you are actuallu right Apr 25 14:36:46 if i now look very very carefully, I see sdc :D Apr 25 14:36:49 thanks mate :) Apr 25 14:37:50 RST38h: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/OE_feed/ Apr 25 14:38:07 RST38h: not a proper feed though I'm afraid as there's no Packages file Apr 25 14:39:48 ssvb: how's your workload atm? Apr 25 14:41:07 have the forums gone down? Apr 25 14:41:14 Atarii, looks like it for me Apr 25 14:41:16 Very slow. Apr 25 14:41:20 yea, Apr 25 14:42:24 how do i add custom places to the filemanager? For example, i want to add / Apr 25 14:42:32 i did it a while back but cant remember how Apr 25 14:42:40 symlink it for total hax Apr 25 14:43:22 Atarii: but be careful of the crawler getting itself stuck Apr 25 14:43:57 lardman: it's more or less fine now Apr 25 14:44:07 ah yes, ln -s / /home/user/MyDocs Apr 25 14:44:16 is that correct, or the wrong filemanager location? Apr 25 14:46:36 woot, ln -s / /home/user/MyDocs/root :D Apr 25 14:50:52 ssvb: great; sorry I didn't send you my part done colourspace/scaling code, I had food poisoning just before I left for my hols and wasn't really to fussed to do anything Apr 25 14:51:17 Atarii: i think there might be a file describing the `places' it should show too Apr 25 14:51:58 ssvb: I was just going to ask whether you can think of any reasonably simple test harness code I can use to check that the DSP code is working, before plumbing it into mplayer? Apr 25 14:53:03 ssvb: perhaps a better question is how can I easily generate a variety of different pixel format images to send to it to see if it works? Apr 25 14:54:19 it seems Tahvo has an USB transceiver Apr 25 14:54:30 isn't used by Nokia though Apr 25 14:55:14 AStorm: where's that info from? Apr 25 14:55:36 lardman: I think mplayer should have an option to produce raw YUV images as output Apr 25 14:55:58 to file you mean? So then I can just send them over Apr 25 14:57:11 lardman: the linux-omap kernel Apr 25 14:57:56 lardman: yes, but you can also try rgb images first Apr 25 14:59:14 ssvb: I know rgb works, well single colour ones anyway, but I'll have to check the position and scaling as that's not tested yet Apr 25 15:00:10 hola Apr 25 15:00:50 ssvb: I'll have a play around with that then over the weekend and let you know how i get on Apr 25 15:01:03 lardman: ok Apr 25 15:02:13 my scaling code will be rubbish, if I even bother in the first instance. derf - problem with using MATLAB to do it for you ;) Apr 25 15:08:55 ok, I'll need gcc-4 on the tablet :P Apr 25 15:10:17 AStorm: install mamona :p Apr 25 15:10:50 =P Apr 25 15:10:58 keesj: yeah sure Apr 25 15:11:03 hmmmm Apr 25 15:11:05 lardman: :) Apr 25 15:11:06 build-essential? Apr 25 15:11:19 bt isn't buildign in latestg linux-omap :P Apr 25 15:12:29 some missing or renamed constant Apr 25 15:12:43 bye Apr 25 15:18:09 ok, I know now :P Apr 25 15:18:27 an API change no one bothered to fix :P Apr 25 15:29:26 Hi again Apr 25 15:30:15 I m tired of design nice gui under glade and see it transform by this stupid hildon theme Apr 25 15:31:13 how can i make a gtktreeview with different color on line Apr 25 15:31:42 one bluelight, one blank, then Apr 25 15:31:43 one bluelight, one blank, then Apr 25 15:31:48 and ... Apr 25 15:31:56 ? Apr 25 15:32:13 in french it s 'pyjama list' Apr 25 15:37:09 Khertan_on_n810: you don't Apr 25 15:37:19 this should be governed by theme Apr 25 15:37:27 it s stupid Apr 25 15:37:33 you can hack it, but please don't Apr 25 15:38:15 is there a way to get rid of that stupid notice which says "this software is not by Nokia, are you sure you want to install it"? Apr 25 15:38:15 if i place a separator for example there is a reason Apr 25 15:38:35 Atarii: someone rebuilt Application Manager without it Apr 25 15:38:36 but it s not displayed ... Apr 25 15:38:56 it s like the margin in an hildon windows Apr 25 15:39:20 it s a so large screen that we can waste space ! Apr 25 15:39:45 leetmode thanks Jaffa Apr 25 15:44:06 ok, the kernel is built :) Apr 25 15:44:34 now, need btrfs and wifi :) Apr 25 15:44:39 AStorm > do u now where i can find information about hack this theme prefs Apr 25 15:44:57 i ve already found for image in stovk-button Apr 25 15:45:59 3 cheers for X-Fade and the autobuilder Apr 25 15:49:51 with FBCON enabled, I should be able to see messages :) Apr 25 15:50:15 AStorm, I had FBCON enabled and I would get black screen and then reverted back to nokia logo. Apr 25 15:50:22 You need fanoush's tools. Apr 25 15:50:36 Those work, I now get FB output from my OS2008 on boot and shutdown. Apr 25 15:51:16 I have these Apr 25 15:51:22 :P Apr 25 15:51:32 You don't need it enabled in Kernel then :p Apr 25 15:51:51 but then, you can also disable manual update Apr 25 15:51:55 of the screen Apr 25 15:52:08 then it should "just work" Apr 25 15:52:22 Jaffa: nice essay on maemopeople :p Apr 25 15:52:49 ~lart mplayer man page for being too long Apr 25 15:52:49 * infobot decapitates mplayer man page conan the destroyer style for being too long Apr 25 15:52:50 True. I think my kernel is set to manual. Auto in kernel never worked for me so why keep it enabled. I keep kernel at auto and fanoush's fb_update_mode sets it into manual. Apr 25 15:53:29 <||cw> lardman: try the smb.conf man page sometime Apr 25 15:53:41 It is long. Apr 25 15:53:43 * qwerty12 blinks. Apr 25 15:54:28 ~lart closed wifi drivers Apr 25 15:54:28 * infobot --purges closed wifi drivers Apr 25 15:54:34 no! Apr 25 15:54:35 ~lart closed wifi drivers Apr 25 15:54:36 well too long for a Friday afternoon at least :) Apr 25 15:55:37 ~lart closed wifi drivers Apr 25 15:55:38 * infobot slaps a compatible dib on closed wifi drivers's head Apr 25 15:56:01 infobot: you don't know plural, do ya? Apr 25 15:57:37 ok, how can I backup currently installed kernel? Apr 25 15:57:59 AStorm, is it stock kernel or own custom compiled kernel already installed? Apr 25 15:58:08 stock Apr 25 15:58:27 but I want to know anyway Apr 25 15:58:46 the new one is 2.6.25-omap1 Apr 25 15:58:53 No idea. I'd just say to extract it from nokia bin image with flasher-3.0 but you want to know anyway. Apr 25 15:59:45 Maybe cat /dev/mtd2 to a file. I don't think it would be flashable by anything though :/ Apr 25 16:00:31 hmmh Apr 25 16:00:31 See if you can reverse fanoush's kernel flasher script. Apr 25 16:01:23 Sigh, maemo application catalog seems to be down. Apr 25 16:02:02 qwerty12: What's up? Apr 25 16:02:15 It works for me? Apr 25 16:02:34 X-Fade, it works now :). I had midgard error a min ago. Apr 25 16:02:58 qwerty12: Hehe, I know ;) I was reloading something.. Apr 25 16:03:22 ahh :) Apr 25 16:03:25 Can have been there for more than 20 secs ;) Apr 25 16:03:33 And still you got it. Apr 25 16:04:00 The chances of that :/ Apr 25 16:05:48 qwerty12 to install your applciation manager (without the annoying Nokia message) do i use dpkg --install ? Apr 25 16:06:04 Atarii, that's what I did Apr 25 16:06:16 k thanks Apr 25 16:06:22 now tryin it Apr 25 16:09:43 Net Neutrality at steak? Apr 25 16:10:15 <||cw> ah, steaks as bribes... Apr 25 16:10:43 lol Apr 25 16:13:20 I'm creating an Open Source Internet. Wanna Join? Apr 25 16:14:04 Just wire up your state/country and we will connect them together Apr 25 16:14:05 lol Apr 25 16:16:08 <||cw> skibur: I have some bailing wire I can connect MO to IL with Apr 25 16:16:18 lol Apr 25 16:16:29 <||cw> the river might be a problem though Apr 25 16:16:32 yeah Apr 25 16:16:41 I got a Linusys Router? Apr 25 16:16:46 :D Apr 25 16:17:11 Yay, 930 of 1722 packages downloaded! AT 74.8 KB/S :O Apr 25 16:18:41 time to reflash :( Apr 25 16:18:49 Atarii, how come? Apr 25 16:19:14 a. i think i messed up trying to customise the boot images Apr 25 16:19:20 <||cw> no, but I got an old B access point Apr 25 16:19:45 b. the application manager installed fine but gets stuck trying to install stuff. Im guessin its not meant for 2008h Apr 25 16:19:49 2008he* Apr 25 16:20:49 hmm Apr 25 16:21:02 is n810 SD reader high speed already? Apr 25 16:21:04 Atarii, Hmm, have you tried clicking the link for the original app manager Apr 25 16:21:26 too late, needed a clean flash anyways Apr 25 16:21:48 plus im used to flashing devices, i flashed my Samsung phone 6 times last night :S Apr 25 16:22:05 Atarii, you won't believe the amount of times I've flashed my W810 :p Apr 25 16:22:12 Battery cover is loose now Apr 25 16:22:20 poor devices Apr 25 16:23:04 lol, same here, the slider is so loose now Apr 25 16:23:32 Hehe, I applied some dodgy patches to mine as well. Reboots from time to time lol Apr 25 16:24:17 phew panic over, thought id WSOD then Apr 25 16:25:41 yea same, the Samsung modding scene is Russian based, so google translate is the only way i can see what the patches i apply to my phone actually do :S Apr 25 16:26:14 heh...I remember flashing a region free firmware to my brand new DVD-ROM drive back in the day Apr 25 16:26:18 Atarii, Same here :). Although the Russians take time to translate descriptions into English and if not, I have a Russian friend on MSN :p Apr 25 16:26:31 it was from a Russian site, didn't even know for sure if it was for the right device O_o Apr 25 16:26:36 johnx, I remember doing that to my drive lol Apr 25 16:26:46 Now with my new HP, a simple tool sets it Apr 25 16:26:53 No firmware flashing necessary. Apr 25 16:27:06 now Linux doesn't even pay attention to the region setting I think Apr 25 16:27:39 I prefer Windows DVD players but tbh, I don't watch DVD's much. *cough cough* Apr 25 16:28:01 lol Apr 25 16:28:25 Hi Apr 25 16:28:36 Anyone solved the snail's shell NP level? Apr 25 16:28:52 vlc works just fine in Linux with menus and everything. but yeah, not many physical DVDs here these days... Apr 25 16:29:14 * johnx sleeps Apr 25 16:29:16 Nagojgtuas' Apr 25 16:29:23 dsdsfdsfds' Apr 25 16:41:39 it s seems there is a bug in libglade ... with pack_start and pack_end Apr 25 16:41:54 result aren't the the as in glade Apr 25 16:42:01 example : Apr 25 16:42:20 button1 - button2 - button3 Apr 25 16:42:40 with position 4 - 3 - 2 Apr 25 16:42:59 and pack_end should be display : Apr 25 16:43:01 button1 - button2 - button3 Apr 25 16:43:09 but are displayed : Apr 25 16:43:18 button2 - button1 - button3 Apr 25 16:43:39 and it s well displayed in glade on my nit Apr 25 16:47:25 damn Apr 25 16:47:40 can't build cx3110x for 2.6.25 Apr 25 16:47:55 needs porting :P Apr 25 16:48:52 anyone have any good ebook source (non drm) except #bookz? Apr 25 16:49:19 project gutenberg perhaps? Apr 25 16:49:23 ;-) Apr 25 16:49:52 tor.com is giving away some free ebooks as a promotion Apr 25 16:50:12 without drm, johnx? Apr 25 16:50:17 meaning it compatible Apr 25 16:50:20 without DRM yes Apr 25 16:50:33 baen.com also has a shitton of free stuff Apr 25 16:50:36 PDF, HTML and Mobi formats Apr 25 16:50:37 and their paid stuff is non-drm Apr 25 16:51:06 Cptnodegard, http://e2ma.net/go/948937814/838558/30376561/goto:http://hbpub.vo.llnwd.net/o16/video/olmk/tor.com/ScalziOMWHTML/Scalzi,%20John%20-%20Old%20Mans%20War.html Apr 25 16:51:51 The web is _filled_ with free e-books. Use Google. Apr 25 16:51:51 hmmhmm Apr 25 16:52:06 im looking for a specific one :/ Apr 25 16:52:07 it seems that the chip is standard Prism54 Apr 25 16:52:10 Cptnodegard, ipmart-forum *cough cough* Apr 25 16:52:17 according to the driver Apr 25 16:52:42 we just don't have the firmware, but it should be exctractable from umac.ko Apr 25 16:53:12 maybe FreeMAC would work Apr 25 16:53:32 the wifi chip is an ARM itself Apr 25 16:53:59 hehe from the free Tor books offer: "*NO PURCHASE NECESSARY. Void where prohibited." Where are DRM-free book giveaways prohibited? Apr 25 16:54:45 if I'm lucky, I'll be able to grab the firmware off umac.ko and just run with prism54 driver Apr 25 16:55:45 sounds very cool. I'll head to bed now, but make sure you poke at me on here or itt if you make any progress (or even if you don't) Apr 25 16:55:47 good luck Apr 25 16:56:42 hmm Apr 25 16:56:55 good night, foo Apr 25 16:57:09 there's no PCI in here, so the comm must take part over I2C Apr 25 16:58:55 or some gpios Apr 25 16:59:26 I wonder why the ddumb Conexant won't just open the UMAC :P Apr 25 16:59:36 and provide closed firmware Apr 25 17:00:57 it would allow ter'rists and rogue nations access to vital sekrit j00ky that could threatne the nations freedom loving citizens Apr 25 17:01:30 cant have freedom without the lack of freedom Apr 25 17:01:53 hehe, no Apr 25 17:02:03 umac has been rev-enged since Apr 25 17:02:27 both PCI and USB part Apr 25 17:02:47 hopefully I only need to extract the firmware Apr 25 17:03:18 but, IMO, this one sits on I2C bus or some GPIO Apr 25 17:06:20 hmm if I boot off internal SD card, would it be bad to remove the back cover while the n800 is on? Apr 25 17:06:45 or will something keep the card from getting unmounted? Apr 25 17:07:24 it will always be busy Apr 25 17:09:27 freelikegnu: you won't be able to mount it over the net afaicr Apr 25 17:10:52 hmm, fuse sshfs should work, no? Apr 25 17:11:05 is there some tool with which I could prod I2C bus? Apr 25 17:11:23 prod? Apr 25 17:11:30 freelikegnu: sure, because it doesn't try to mount the actual fs Apr 25 17:11:39 kulve: enumerate devices Apr 25 17:11:49 and read their boilerpltes Apr 25 17:14:30 nah, I2C is too slow for full speed wifi Apr 25 17:14:49 can Nxxx do full speed wifi? 11Mbit? Apr 25 17:15:12 it can do something like 700/800kt/s, so quite close to 11Mbps Apr 25 17:15:35 mhm Apr 25 17:15:36 with scp, so I don't know if the cpu is the bottleneck then.. Apr 25 17:15:39 It's g Apr 25 17:15:49 so I2C it can't be Apr 25 17:16:46 800kBps is much faster than 11mbps wifi can go Apr 25 17:17:17 100Mbps Ethernet only gets about 800kBps tcp transfers, and 11Mbps wifi is only 5.5Mbps in each direction Apr 25 17:17:21 so ... Apr 25 17:17:31 you're getting 802.11g speeds there :-) Apr 25 17:17:47 and the wifi isn't connected to usb either Apr 25 17:18:21 elb: 100M network can transfer >10000 kilobytes/s Apr 25 17:18:27 <||cw> elb: uh, 100Mbps can easily get 9MB/s Apr 25 17:19:01 oops, I typo'd Apr 25 17:19:04 I meant 10Mbps Ethernet Apr 25 17:19:21 (which is a much more appropriate comparison to 11Mbps wifi) Apr 25 17:19:34 though, in reality, 11Mbps wifi compares quite poorly to 10Mbps Ethernet Apr 25 17:19:45 argh, it's over some SPI Apr 25 17:19:58 <||cw> yeah, B wifi is more like 400KB/s Apr 25 17:20:31 not only is it barely over half the rate, there are a lot of timing issues with wireless that are poor for TCP throughput Apr 25 17:23:06 hmm, ok, now I need a softmac driver that builds under 2.6.25 Apr 25 17:23:16 and port cx3110x to it Apr 25 17:25:59 thats exciting Apr 25 17:27:14 it will be great to have a true debian with recent kernel in the n8** Apr 25 17:28:03 \ Apr 25 17:28:37 / Apr 25 17:29:05 seems like i cant get in touch with my mmc from my Fedora8 with usb cable, i just tried with my nokia n73 and that worked, could it be som fedora update or are there reported similar bugs? Apr 25 17:29:27 Just use sftp? :P Apr 25 17:30:13 ok, porting won't be as hard as I thought Apr 25 17:30:26 the kernel prism54 driver is very similar Apr 25 17:31:07 woo Apr 25 17:35:18 now we know why wifi is so bad at N Apr 25 17:35:37 they use SA_INTERRUPT all over the place on irqs Apr 25 17:35:39 :P Apr 25 17:36:12 in effect this is a STI Apr 25 17:36:28 a critical section Apr 25 17:37:20 AStorm: wokring on free wifi driver? Apr 25 17:37:35 on cx3110x to build Apr 25 17:37:44 GeneralAntilles: that sort of response is a pretty annoying non-answer :-P Apr 25 17:37:46 for starters, with new kernel Apr 25 17:38:06 eathprod: when you plug the tablet in, does the fedora box log the detection of a usb mass storage device? Apr 25 17:38:12 I don't have a good one, so I figured I'd recommend a good alternative. Apr 25 17:38:14 So, meh. Apr 25 17:38:16 eathprod: (you can run 'dmesg' to check) Apr 25 17:38:36 haha, SA_INTGERRUPT is now IRQF_DISABLED Apr 25 17:38:56 so, I can just turn that into 0 Apr 25 17:39:14 thanks to lxr :D Apr 25 17:39:45 or, no Apr 25 17:39:53 nah, I have to set the flag Apr 25 17:40:00 or things might break Apr 25 17:40:14 still, it is a critical section, bqad for latenc Apr 25 17:40:15 got a line with: usb 1-2: device descriptor read/64, error -110 Apr 25 17:40:56 eathprod: dose that happen every time you plug it in? Apr 25 17:41:01 can you try a different USB port? Apr 25 17:42:04 i have tried another usb port, happens the same, worked 2 days ago Apr 25 17:43:03 the whole on pastebin http://www.pastebin.ca/997516 Apr 25 17:44:54 I'll just axe that flag and see what goes Apr 25 17:45:13 no STI, but it shouldn't break anything Apr 25 17:45:27 the flag was molst likely misused anyway Apr 25 17:46:36 yay, it built Apr 25 17:46:49 I wonder if it'll load that umac Apr 25 17:47:28 diff. kernel and gcc version, hmm Apr 25 17:49:30 it needs more porting due to skb changes :) Apr 25 17:54:34 actually, the conexant guzs are breaking the GPL Apr 25 17:54:43 the umac is not firmware Apr 25 17:55:25 yet cx3110x is set as GPL Apr 25 17:55:38 but it calls non-GPL umac Apr 25 17:55:55 even, links against it Apr 25 17:57:14 theoretically, people could sue the hell out of them, make them provide a real driver Apr 25 17:57:26 /ignore AStorm Apr 25 17:57:40 any other traffic in here? Apr 25 17:57:42 :P Apr 25 17:58:38 He's got a thing again monologuing I guess. :P Apr 25 17:59:01 blah Apr 25 18:00:12 Heh ;) Apr 25 18:01:23 Did everbody see the newest maemo community guy for the documentation department? Apr 25 18:01:40 dneary: Give a shout out here ;) Apr 25 18:02:03 http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2008/04/25/hello-planet-maemo/ Apr 25 18:03:35 someone should make conexant lawyers realize the truth: no one would want to steal their crummy device design Apr 25 18:03:49 and it's been reverse engineered already Apr 25 18:03:58 Howdy, dneary! http://andrew.olmsted.ca/screens/nautilus.png and use the escape key on the front face on the N810. ;) Apr 25 18:04:33 ok so sounds plays fine for me in 2008he :S Apr 25 18:04:39 AStorm: You know that is not the only reason. They don't want you to play with the regulated hardware settings. Like power and perhaps also frequency. Apr 25 18:04:50 blah blah Apr 25 18:05:13 and they're too cheap to enforce these in the hw part of the firmware? Apr 25 18:05:17 please... Apr 25 18:05:40 LMAC should be enforcing these Apr 25 18:05:52 AStorm: Just like those crappy winmodems ;) Apr 25 18:06:38 they're afraid someone will steal their ARM chip? lol Apr 25 18:06:53 there's nothing worth stealing Apr 25 18:07:23 Intel has better devices already Apr 25 18:08:59 ahha Apr 25 18:09:13 I see OE guys have an objcopy hack Apr 25 18:09:22 to make umac.ko work Apr 25 18:10:45 they copy the functions off the binary umac into a stub Apr 25 18:19:11 Power/Frequency settings are actually dangerous to tweak Apr 25 18:19:48 You *can* damage your CPU with them Apr 25 18:20:19 Get your Apple i now: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1811646 Apr 25 18:20:20 So, normally, a manufacturer will have a function call like SetPowerProfile(enum PowerProfile) Apr 25 18:20:40 And expose this call and a bunch of different profiles to the developers Apr 25 18:21:35 GeneralAntilles: Thanks! Apr 25 18:22:13 I was getting very close on the level, wasn't quite using the wedge you did Apr 25 18:23:20 Thank fiferboy from ITT for that solution. I actually used another mini catapult. I think I got a bit lucky. :D Apr 25 18:24:56 Heh, yeah I am kind of stuck in that level too. You have to find methods to lift/throw stuff. Apr 25 18:25:00 Which is very cool ;) Apr 25 18:25:51 Building catapults and trebuchets is damn fun work. Apr 25 18:27:33 How do you beat the level with two pendulums shielding the ball from both sides? Apr 25 18:28:12 I used a lever to open it Apr 25 18:28:40 I used a bunch of small balls to push it out. Apr 25 18:29:53 And a lever to open up. Apr 25 18:29:54 I attached a long line with a heavy ball on the end to the end of the right door Apr 25 18:30:04 draw the ball up high and it'll pull open the door as it falls. Apr 25 18:30:27 what game is that? Apr 25 18:30:54 Numptyphysics Apr 25 18:31:03 aha Apr 25 18:31:07 * Atarii installs... Apr 25 18:32:17 aha Apr 25 18:32:17 Atarii: There goes your spare time ;) Apr 25 18:32:28 dammit, no revision for me :p Apr 25 18:34:26 dammit Apr 25 18:34:36 my crosscompiler is wrong eabi :P Apr 25 19:27:04 numpty physics doesnt work with 2008he phew! Apr 25 19:28:10 See ITT Apr 25 19:28:12 They have a thread Apr 25 19:28:17 I'm pretty sure somebody compiled it. Apr 25 19:28:33 * AStorm is building arm-none-eabi toolchain Apr 25 19:28:38 dont tell me that! Apr 25 19:36:21 anyone know why it doesnt recognise when i plug the usb cable into the device? its connect to the computer Apr 25 19:36:26 it sometimes recognises it, and doesnt other times Apr 25 19:50:54 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=hardy_power&num=2 Apr 25 19:51:05 w00t Apr 25 19:52:11 running vista on 8core server? Apr 25 19:52:18 funny Apr 25 19:52:46 I'm unable to build a kernel with vfp support and -mcpu=arm1136jf-s Apr 25 19:53:05 build without Apr 25 19:53:09 bitches about unsupported asm instruction Apr 25 19:53:19 KotCzarny: no, it should work! Apr 25 19:53:30 vfp code is faster than not too Apr 25 19:54:00 that's up to benchmarks, not intuition Apr 25 19:54:02 :) Apr 25 19:54:11 ... someone did test it Apr 25 19:54:14 google! Apr 25 19:54:28 but I need kernel support Apr 25 19:54:29 for you it should compile/run first Apr 25 19:54:34 AStorm: Know any asm? :p. I wanted to learn tto creat some code that would go in firmware of my w810 but I couldn't be arsed :p Apr 25 19:54:36 then you can start optimizing Apr 25 19:55:14 qwerty12_N800: some asm is not enough Apr 25 19:55:24 I'd need docs and copious time Apr 25 19:56:05 :(. Hope you succeed with this, be a great achievement imho. Apr 25 19:56:14 ok, gcc 4.2.3 -mcpu is buggy Apr 25 19:56:17 or monetary motivation Apr 25 19:56:18 :P Apr 25 19:56:18 :> Apr 25 19:56:29 now, -march + -mcpu is ok Apr 25 19:56:48 if you use march you don't have to use mcpu Apr 25 19:56:50 for some reason it tells me that arm1136jf-s is not armv6 Apr 25 19:56:56 :P Apr 25 19:57:44 what a load :P Apr 25 19:57:58 Does anyone know if language changer on hildon small virtual keyboard is part of layout file or part of hildon-im-plugin? Apr 25 20:01:36 Anyone? :(. I want my caps lock back and the "En" bringing up the settings really pees me off because of the delay and I only have 1 language set. Apr 25 20:01:48 :> Apr 25 20:01:49 KotCzarny, feelin any better yet - im slowly dying here Apr 25 20:02:01 tho i made it throu the nite :) Apr 25 20:02:08 lcuk, yeah, i was mostly sleeping for the last night/day Apr 25 20:02:31 same here - slept longer today than i have done in months Apr 25 20:03:03 and woke up wet Apr 25 20:03:27 man this numpty physics game is awesome Apr 25 20:03:33 Hope you both get better. I had the flu last month and I really felt like sawing my nose off >.> Apr 25 20:03:44 at least my eyes don't hurt as yesterday Apr 25 20:03:58 qwerty: it's not flu, i think Apr 25 20:04:05 my nose isn't afected Apr 25 20:04:09 *affected Apr 25 20:04:10 mine is getting to my throat more than anywhere - i can breath slow enough for normal use, but when i cough its like im cheqing on a chainsaw Apr 25 20:04:24 #disease Apr 25 20:04:30 eyes did hurt actually whenever i looked around Apr 25 20:04:33 :(. I thought you had flu from the quick snippets I read. Apr 25 20:04:43 ahhh GeneralAntilles its ok we arent contaigious in public chat Apr 25 20:04:47 ok, i haven't been to the doctor Apr 25 20:04:49 BUT WATCH OUT FOR THE EMAILS Apr 25 20:04:52 so it can be anything Apr 25 20:05:01 and for the ftp too Apr 25 20:05:02 :) Apr 25 20:05:02 Maybe i should leave to avoid getting this too ;) Apr 25 20:05:22 lol flo - hopefully i will be cured by next month ;0 Apr 25 20:05:30 +shiftkey Apr 25 20:05:40 flo_lap: Long wait... :p Apr 25 20:06:55 offtopic q: on my windows machine i have wired internet and a wireless card. i run the wireless in adhoc mode. what can i use to list the mac addresses of things on the wireless side (google is shit) Apr 25 20:07:46 nmap ? Apr 25 20:07:53 then arp print Apr 25 20:07:57 or something Apr 25 20:08:06 but i thought nmap was a hackers' tool Apr 25 20:08:20 * lcuk doesnt wanna get arrested Apr 25 20:08:23 I ran it in school once... Apr 25 20:08:33 It fine on a network u run Apr 25 20:08:37 then just run with -p 80 arg Apr 25 20:08:41 lcuk are you from germany? Apr 25 20:08:44 s/It/it's/ Apr 25 20:08:44 qwerty12_N800 meant: it's fine on a network u run Apr 25 20:09:05 no atarii im in england :P Apr 25 20:09:19 well then nmap is fine Apr 25 20:09:42 you can also use netstumbler Apr 25 20:10:04 It's a "security penetration" tool. Supposidly (spelling) for admins to test their own networks... Apr 25 20:10:19 'supposedly' Apr 25 20:10:28 Thanks Apr 25 20:10:34 i am inside. i just want to list whats looking through my window Apr 25 20:10:41 thx though its downloading Apr 25 20:10:51 Don't go near the bushes... Apr 25 20:10:59 :> Apr 25 20:11:07 lions be ther ? Apr 25 20:11:24 no... georges be there Apr 25 20:48:02 Hi all! Apr 25 20:48:14 - all: No such nick/channel Apr 25 20:48:43 AStorm: did anyone reply to suggest why you can't build a kernel using arm1136jf-s ? Apr 25 20:50:04 I have a question: I have installed right now the new hacker edition for my Nokia 770. It's possible to use xterm? I ca install the one for OS2007 or OS2006 or i must search for OS 2008? OS2008 is compatible with apps developed for previous OS? Apr 25 20:50:07 AStorm: qemu doesn't support the -mcup=arm1136jf-s instruction set due to some odd ARM patent thing iirc Apr 25 20:50:21 argh. patents :/ Apr 25 20:50:30 AStorm: so if any intermediate binaries are compiled and need to be run, the build will fail Apr 25 20:50:35 Ziriuz, OS2008 is bundled with xterm. Apr 25 20:51:18 OS2007 you'll need to grab a bora xterm package Apr 25 20:51:56 "NASA officials have voiced their approval of how Russia handled the crisis. They expect to rely heavily on Soyuz spacecraft once the shuttles are retired in 2010." Apr 25 20:52:15 * RST38h imagines some US senators shitting bricks and giggles Apr 25 20:52:37 AStorm: I should also add that afaik the kernel doesn't use floating point, so compiling with vfp support is pointless Apr 25 20:52:59 i have always wondered Apr 25 20:53:03 Uhm, I installed the latest Hacker Version, it's signed as 2008 Apr 25 20:53:20 to actually use some cpu specific intructions does kernel needs to know about them? Apr 25 20:53:20 Then you already have xterm, Ziriuz. Apr 25 20:53:25 or only gcc? Apr 25 20:53:31 lardman: wrong Apr 25 20:53:40 it has the setup code for vfp Apr 25 20:53:53 that was throwing the error Apr 25 20:54:03 GeneralAntilles: I'm searching for it :S Apr 25 20:54:10 AStorm: fair enough Apr 25 20:54:17 It's right in the menu Apr 25 20:54:20 under Utilities Apr 25 20:54:50 Uhm... I don't have it :S Apr 25 20:54:55 ok, so I need arm-none-linux-gnueabi toolchain Apr 25 20:55:13 You sure it's OS2008 Apr 25 20:55:17 If it's OS2007, then it's not bundled Apr 25 20:55:20 not arm-pc-linux-gnu Apr 25 20:55:32 and you need to grab a copy for bora Apr 25 20:55:43 hmm Apr 25 20:55:46 tablet is a pc Apr 25 20:55:48 :) Apr 25 20:56:02 not x86 but Apr 25 20:56:03 :) Apr 25 20:56:19 GeneralAntilles: My Information: "Internet Tablet OS2007 hacker edition for the 770, Version: 4.2008.7-1 Apr 25 20:56:45 Ah, right, we've confused the build year and the OS version. ;) Apr 25 20:56:55 If i connect to maemo.org it autoselect OS2008 :) Apr 25 20:56:57 ? Apr 25 20:57:04 http://maemo-hackers.org/wiki/OssoXterm Apr 25 20:58:30 KotCzarny: the gnueabi part is the most important Apr 25 20:58:41 uhum Apr 25 20:59:41 GeneralAntilles: does it means that it'is Chinook or that it's Bora? Apr 25 20:59:54 OS2008 is Chinook Apr 25 20:59:58 OS2007 is Bora Apr 25 21:00:05 hmm, from reading ITT Mara says Nokia are working on a "fix" for the GPS Apr 25 21:00:12 I wonder what that might be Apr 25 21:00:23 Version: 4.2008.7-1 = release number.build year.build week-build number Apr 25 21:00:31 Can be any number of things Apr 25 21:00:44 I'd rather have a fix for the damn network drivers being stupid. Apr 25 21:00:52 RST38h: let's hope it's AGPS functionality or an API for us to do the job Apr 25 21:00:56 From a settings tweak on the chip to uploading almanac and other data Apr 25 21:01:11 So mine it's OS2007, right? Apr 25 21:01:22 The datasheet on the chip says that it has two serial inputs - one for data, another one for position assistance Apr 25 21:01:51 The AGPS serial line is supposed to be connected to the baseband chip in the phone. Of course, ITs do not have the baseband chip Apr 25 21:01:51 well, almanac upload would be nice Apr 25 21:02:04 [4:56pm] GeneralAntilles: My Information: "Internet Tablet OS2007 hacker edition for the 770 Apr 25 21:02:06 Yes. Apr 25 21:02:24 get appprox. time and location, then upload older almanac of that place Apr 25 21:02:25 So the real question is: is that second serial line connected to anything in ITs and if not, whether it is possible to upload the same data using the main line Apr 25 21:02:29 GeneralAntilles: ok, thank you so much ;) Apr 25 21:02:36 Sure Apr 25 21:02:44 I agree with AStorm, and the current position data must be stored somewhere when the chip is shut down Apr 25 21:02:49 bbiab Apr 25 21:12:00 last known gps locaiton is stored in linuxfilesys somewhere i came across it once Apr 25 21:12:14 errr - infact its in the map i think Apr 25 21:35:24 re Apr 25 21:38:29 lcuk: There is no guarantee you *can* feed it to the chip =( Apr 25 21:45:07 somewhere under /var/lib/gps iirc Apr 25 21:45:42 though the position isn't too important, it's the ephemeris data, etc., and what format it's saved in, etc. Apr 25 21:49:56 ephemeris is valid at the same time in the same place Apr 25 21:50:05 give or take a few Apr 25 22:17:27 AStorm: yes indeed, and if we can feed a given AGPS chipset valid ephemeris data, knowing the time & position, then is should help the lock time Apr 25 22:18:27 that reads wrong. If we can feed a given N810 a set of ephemeris data knowing its position... etc. Apr 25 22:25:01 we'd need to store the full daily data to almost guarantee an immediate fix :) Apr 25 22:25:46 ok, I've hacked cx3110x to build vs 2.6.25 Apr 25 22:25:50 w/ slub Apr 25 22:26:05 umac and mtum need some part of slab it seems Apr 25 22:26:17 whoo hoo Apr 25 22:26:19 I provided the missing table Apr 25 22:26:20 does it work too? Apr 25 22:26:24 w00! Apr 25 22:26:27 have to check Apr 25 22:26:35 :) Apr 25 22:27:02 brb, moving irc fom n810 to laptop Apr 25 22:29:07 AStorm: or calculate the required data.... Apr 25 22:29:29 lardman: or get proper data from mesh network Apr 25 22:29:30 ;) Apr 25 22:29:46 yeah, from the supl server Apr 25 22:29:58 but the point is until we know the format, we can't do anything Apr 25 22:30:23 is it encrypted? Apr 25 22:30:52 what supl or the location data which is fed to the AGPS chip? Apr 25 22:31:38 I don;t know about the former (not much point in looking if there's nothing to do with it) and I can't imagine the latter is Apr 25 22:31:40 data fed Apr 25 22:32:01 nah, but probably in some chip-specific format Apr 25 22:32:35 using 11bit data is a good encryption ;) Apr 25 22:32:49 :) Apr 25 22:33:27 have a read of this: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16057&page=11 Apr 25 22:34:57 grrre Apr 25 22:35:06 i hate copying links from aterm Apr 25 22:35:27 stupid firefox. Apr 25 22:35:33 can you paste it again? Apr 25 22:35:45 (i can't join it) Apr 25 22:35:53 sure, this is the first page Apr 25 22:35:54 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16057 Apr 25 22:36:03 thx Apr 25 22:36:06 np Apr 25 22:37:50 pg 5 is where it moves on from the leap year fix to talking about the format of nvd_data, etc. Apr 25 22:41:14 need to redo the initfs too, put new modules on it Apr 25 22:41:24 :) Apr 25 22:41:35 or run over usb? Apr 25 22:43:21 hmm Apr 25 22:43:28 this thread should be sticky Apr 25 22:43:41 if it really does what people experience Apr 25 22:43:48 :) Apr 25 22:45:26 hmm Apr 25 22:45:33 weird Apr 25 22:45:44 my original kernel now can't see mmc cards ;P Apr 25 22:45:51 I haven't flashed anything yet Apr 25 22:45:59 a real nice wtf Apr 25 22:46:00 maybe you forgot to enable it? Apr 25 22:46:01 :) Apr 25 22:46:06 enable what? Apr 25 22:46:10 it's the *original* kernel Apr 25 22:46:16 just rebooted Apr 25 22:46:17 ah. Apr 25 22:46:55 kernel sees them Apr 25 22:47:03 but hal or udev doesn't Apr 25 22:47:11 or dbus Apr 25 22:51:10 ahha Apr 25 22:51:19 they're sent via USB Apr 25 22:51:25 duhdiduh Apr 25 22:51:36 :> Apr 25 22:52:00 whats that ebook reader called again? Apr 25 22:52:13 fbreader Apr 25 22:52:18 does it do html? Apr 25 22:52:27 nope Apr 25 22:52:29 browser does html Apr 25 22:52:31 plain txt only Apr 25 22:52:35 eh? Apr 25 22:52:39 it reads html Apr 25 22:52:40 browser isn't an ebook reader Apr 25 22:52:41 thats gay Apr 25 22:52:49 astorm: prove it Apr 25 22:52:51 :) Apr 25 22:52:51 johnx: really? Apr 25 22:52:57 hmmhmm Apr 25 22:53:01 must've an older version Apr 25 22:53:06 I've read like thousands of pages of html in fbreader over the years Apr 25 22:53:11 html in fbreader wasnt to my liking Apr 25 22:53:24 it does squish the formatting a bit Apr 25 22:53:28 ok, now running initfs thingy Apr 25 22:53:31 html is easy to parse anyway Apr 25 22:53:35 i think i had problems with links Apr 25 22:53:41 I'd rather have that than horizontal scrolling though Apr 25 22:53:50 It's been able to do html for a really long time. Apr 25 22:54:13 yeah, I remember reading html in fbreader on a zaurus 5500 I think Apr 25 22:54:19 I've read some like 2 dozen books in html in FBReader. Apr 25 22:54:21 johnx: enable resizing in the browser then Apr 25 22:54:34 it tends to avoid horizontal scrolling really well Apr 25 22:54:46 s/resizing/reformatting/ Apr 25 22:54:56 infobot: lame, no memory ;) Apr 25 22:55:13 at the cost of being painfully slow... Anyways, without bookmarking it makes a poor ebook reader Apr 25 22:55:16 using fixed pixels in html is just wrong Apr 25 22:55:32 ^what he said^ Apr 25 22:55:36 otherwise it should fit the window without problem Apr 25 22:55:36 ok, time to grab initfs_something Apr 25 22:55:38 ill test it and hope it works. finally got the ebook ive been searching for for ages Apr 25 22:55:41 and kernel_flasher Apr 25 22:55:50 johnx: width=something Apr 25 22:55:54 actually, to grab the kernel and initfs, not flash them Apr 25 22:56:08 FB read/F Breader :D Apr 25 22:56:17 I don't trust fanoush' tools Apr 25 22:56:32 fair enough, but they've never done me wrong Apr 25 22:56:34 they've made me reflash N with the official flasher already ;P Apr 25 22:56:58 johnx: you have mentioned 'horizontal scrolling' Apr 25 22:57:21 the only way to html be wider than window is to use fixed widths Apr 25 22:57:25 (or large pics) Apr 25 22:57:27 :) Apr 25 22:57:46 yes, and I *agreed* with you Apr 25 22:58:13 :) Apr 25 22:58:16 i thought you were dissatisfied with horizontal scrolling? :) Apr 25 22:59:02 'night chaps Apr 25 22:59:06 fanoush's stuff has never ever let me down. Apr 25 22:59:08 He's no chump. Apr 25 22:59:11 'night lardman|gone Apr 25 22:59:29 johnx: he is too fast Apr 25 22:59:31 ;) Apr 25 23:01:37 hmm, usb charger is much better than the lousy 750 mA thingy Apr 25 23:01:39 ;> Apr 25 23:01:50 :) Apr 25 23:02:02 you mean usb port supplies more than 500mA Apr 25 23:02:03 :) Apr 25 23:02:10 much more Apr 25 23:02:13 more like 1A here Apr 25 23:02:19 poor usb.. Apr 25 23:02:20 ;) Apr 25 23:02:24 nah, laptop ;) Apr 25 23:02:29 you should add some current limiter Apr 25 23:02:34 why? Apr 25 23:02:43 it's the official nokia USB charger Apr 25 23:02:52 ahum Apr 25 23:02:53 :) Apr 25 23:02:54 it slowly increases current after negotiating 500mA Apr 25 23:03:02 smart thing Apr 25 23:03:23 then it backs off if it sees a voltage drop, albeit small Apr 25 23:03:35 or if the requirements are met ;P Apr 25 23:03:39 nice Apr 25 23:04:58 additionally, it's small Apr 25 23:05:18 but it has a very short cable Apr 25 23:05:40 bout 15 cm Apr 25 23:06:05 can be good and bad Apr 25 23:06:23 usually bad ;) Apr 25 23:06:40 unless you like to carry an usb A extension cable Apr 25 23:06:44 ok, time to redo the initfs Apr 25 23:06:54 then, rock and roll Apr 25 23:07:39 o.o Apr 25 23:07:43 the text is bloody big Apr 25 23:07:45 im not blind Apr 25 23:07:54 What text? Apr 25 23:08:03 ...yet Apr 25 23:08:06 this is incredible progress AStorm. Wish I could stay around and see how you do, but I'm off to work. :) Apr 25 23:08:27 fbreader...there has to be an option to reduce the text someplace Apr 25 23:08:32 reduce it like...75% Apr 25 23:08:35 you can Apr 25 23:08:42 just set the font size Apr 25 23:08:47 has anyone used Dasher in the N800/810? Apr 25 23:09:17 where do i set the font? Apr 25 23:09:26 WorkingOnWise: that's another project of mine :> Apr 25 23:09:33 it's said to work, but slow Apr 25 23:09:42 Cptnodegard, check the prefs. . . . Apr 25 23:09:45 also, new dasher has broken direct input mode, which makes it pointless Apr 25 23:09:46 There's options for everything. Apr 25 23:09:48 Preferences/Styles Apr 25 23:09:49 ;> Apr 25 23:09:56 "Size" ;) Apr 25 23:10:15 maybe he is blind from reading small text Apr 25 23:10:15 WorkingOnWise: I patched the hell out of older dashers to make them work Apr 25 23:10:17 :> Apr 25 23:10:35 KotCzarny: or wants to put N 10m in front Apr 25 23:10:36 * Cptnodegard feels stupid, blames hidden tabs :P Apr 25 23:10:37 thx Apr 25 23:10:37 AStorm: I just today remembered that app. It might be right at home on the N800 Apr 25 23:10:52 WorkingOnWise: it has some hildon support, yup Apr 25 23:10:58 but very little Apr 25 23:11:07 needs direct mode fixed, which I have :D Apr 25 23:11:07 10m? that's farther than arm size Apr 25 23:11:19 AStorm: do you happen to have a deb of any working Dasher? Apr 25 23:11:23 sweet Apr 25 23:11:26 WorkingOnWise: grep the web Apr 25 23:11:31 lol Apr 25 23:11:32 uhm, I mean, google Apr 25 23:11:34 ok Apr 25 23:11:40 yeah :) Apr 25 23:11:42 that v. is old Apr 25 23:11:50 but it might work, remember to start in direct mode Apr 25 23:11:55 lol Apr 25 23:11:55 ok. Apr 25 23:11:56 ty Apr 25 23:12:18 it's slow, unfortunately Apr 25 23:12:25 newer versions are faster Apr 25 23:12:35 but need my patch for direct input to work Apr 25 23:13:03 (someone made a stupid mistake of assuming everyone has GNOME at-spi running if gnome support is on) Apr 25 23:13:35 (which Hildon doesn't have, but the rest of gnome supp. is too useful to drop) Apr 25 23:14:11 ok, how to grab the current kernel off N? Apr 25 23:14:19 dd Apr 25 23:14:27 ah. are the dev's for Dasher helpful in getting it working on Maemo? Apr 25 23:14:30 it's a simple data dump Apr 25 23:14:38 you don't have to parse it or anything Apr 25 23:14:42 2mb in size Apr 25 23:15:12 KotCzarny: good Apr 25 23:15:37 WorkingOnWise: its devel is currently on hold due to temporary lack of funding Apr 25 23:15:50 you will get some zeroes too but.. :) Apr 25 23:15:59 KotCzarny: padding, no problem with it Apr 25 23:16:06 can easily cut that Apr 25 23:16:18 what's the device name? Apr 25 23:16:28 it's the 2mb one Apr 25 23:16:34 probably mtdblock2 or 3 Apr 25 23:16:35 mtd? Apr 25 23:16:38 mhm Apr 25 23:16:53 2 I guess Apr 25 23:16:59 1 is probably NOLO Apr 25 23:17:03 AStorm: ah. didnt know that. It's been a while since I have read their site I guess.... Apr 25 23:17:04 3 initfs Apr 25 23:17:13 and 4 is the 256MB flash Apr 25 23:18:31 yup, I was right Apr 25 23:18:50 WorkingOnWise: read the google group Apr 25 23:18:59 site is really out of date Apr 25 23:19:25 btw, dasher also needs a certain simple crash fix :> Apr 25 23:19:34 2l8 Apr 25 23:19:35 ;) Apr 25 23:20:35 at least older versions Apr 25 23:21:16 gana based in uk Apr 25 23:21:20 ghana Apr 25 23:21:55 what was the key I have to press to enable flash mode? Apr 25 23:22:04 uhm, hold during startup Apr 25 23:22:11 haha, i'm not actually from ghana... Apr 25 23:22:14 you can flash from the device.. Apr 25 23:22:24 it's a simple mtdblock rewrite Apr 25 23:22:41 ok now im confused... how do i scroll a page at a time and not line for line? Apr 25 23:22:52 cpt: see options Apr 25 23:23:18 theres an option for scrolling but i dont see anything looking to mean "one page at a time" Apr 25 23:23:53 KotCzarny: no, last time I did it it failed horribly Apr 25 23:23:57 so, I won't Apr 25 23:24:01 hmm Apr 25 23:24:03 ok Apr 25 23:24:03 Nokia flasher it is for me Apr 25 23:24:07 you're right Apr 25 23:24:16 fanoush kernel flasher does some magic too Apr 25 23:24:21 yeah right Apr 25 23:24:24 like, padding ;P Apr 25 23:24:30 Nokia flasher does that too Apr 25 23:24:34 #we need this in hex for NOLO header Apr 25 23:24:41 etc. Apr 25 23:24:53 again, flasher-3 also does all that Apr 25 23:24:55 AStorm hold "home" and press power Apr 25 23:24:59 mhm, Home Apr 25 23:25:01 good Apr 25 23:25:15 first, unpacking initfs Apr 25 23:26:16 i wonder if simply setting kernel size to 2mb and leaving ignoring padding for linux itself would be enough Apr 25 23:26:24 AStorm, what is it you've been doing? Apr 25 23:26:39 Atarii: upgrading the kernel to 2.6.25 Apr 25 23:26:52 KotCzarny: hmmhmm, maybe Apr 25 23:26:58 who cares ;) Apr 25 23:27:16 wont affect me on my 2008he then? ho hum :( Apr 25 23:27:19 that way reflashing kernel would be a simple dd Apr 25 23:32:32 KotCzarny: nay Apr 25 23:37:46 KotCzarny: do you think I can just grab /mnt/initfs? Apr 25 23:37:56 as I don't have jffs2 support on the laptop Apr 25 23:38:10 i think, yes Apr 25 23:38:22 is there any way to get full flash support in the browser on OS2008? Apr 25 23:38:33 WorkingOnWise: uhm, it has one? Apr 25 23:38:36 in OS2008 Apr 25 23:38:38 not 2007 Apr 25 23:39:11 not full...ther are several sites I go to that show the flash logo where ther should be a flash app. Apr 25 23:39:17 in OS2008 Apr 25 23:39:23 broken sites, sorry Apr 25 23:39:30 it does have full normal Flash Apr 25 23:39:42 a bit slow, but working Apr 25 23:39:59 are you sure its flash and not shockwave or whatever the similar thingy which runs 3d stuff is Apr 25 23:40:15 the only browser I cant use on these sites is microb. even minefield on OS2008 works with them.... Apr 25 23:40:19 paste link to the page and we can tell from here Apr 25 23:40:28 WorkingOnWise: broken site, sorry Apr 25 23:40:33 broken UA sniffer Apr 25 23:40:39 brb...geting a few links. Apr 25 23:40:55 if Minefield on OS2008 works, then it means the page is broken Apr 25 23:40:57 ;> Apr 25 23:42:41 http://iscrybe.com/main/index.php on the right side of the page there is a flash logo on microb Apr 25 23:43:15 it's actuallf a flask movie Apr 25 23:43:17 uhm, it's normal youtube embedded player Apr 25 23:43:19 actually Apr 25 23:43:42 AStorm: did you view it in microb? Apr 25 23:43:49 are you sure youve not got flashblock Apr 25 23:44:49 nope. adblock, google gears, and shockwave flash, and the default Apr 25 23:44:57 yeah, it works Apr 25 23:45:08 no, wait Apr 25 23:45:18 the flash was loading, but... Apr 25 23:45:20 thats wierd Apr 25 23:45:41 had Flash unchecked ;P Apr 25 23:45:49 all i have is the flash logo there where the movie... Apr 25 23:46:04 works just fine Apr 25 23:46:07 you must've Flashblock Apr 25 23:46:21 and then, Shockwave Flash is probably disabled Apr 25 23:46:23 like here Apr 25 23:46:28 check the "zoom" icon Apr 25 23:46:28 or adblock subscription? Apr 25 23:46:37 in the menu, pick Components Apr 25 23:46:44 if Flash is unchecked, that's the culprit Apr 25 23:46:59 already did that....checked. Apr 25 23:47:05 adblock? Apr 25 23:47:28 just turned it off and restarted microb...same Apr 25 23:48:11 flashblock isn't working properly it seems Apr 25 23:48:49 isnt flashblock a browser addon? Apr 25 23:49:22 i dont have flashblock in my components list Apr 25 23:49:43 ok Apr 25 23:49:45 corrupted file? does flash work elsewhere Apr 25 23:49:53 well, here it does Apr 25 23:49:57 including that site Apr 25 23:50:02 ok, time to test Apr 25 23:50:07 youtube works.... Apr 25 23:50:17 clear cache and try again Apr 25 23:50:21 lemme go make sure it still does.... Apr 25 23:53:36 nope. flash across the board, youtube, is broke here. Apr 25 23:53:57 can I reinstall microb without a reflash? Apr 25 23:54:12 please yes please yes please yes Apr 25 23:55:33 cleared the cache before I hit youtube too. Apr 25 23:57:28 I'm dual booting to my SDHC card. I'm going into the OS on the internal flash and see if it works there Apr 25 23:57:33 fully reboot `1st Apr 25 23:57:35 flash that is Apr 25 23:57:44 good Apr 25 23:57:55 ok, got initfs (tar works wonders) Apr 25 23:58:04 now time for major hax Apr 25 23:58:06 what do you mean fully? Apr 25 23:58:14 lcuk: Apr 25 23:58:39 pop battery :) i still havent sussed out how to switch it off fully without Apr 25 23:58:56 you can by picking Power Off option in the power menu Apr 25 23:59:09 oh. didnt realize it stayed hot at all Apr 25 23:59:23 but it's better to pull, just to be sure Apr 25 23:59:46 i did that storm, the first drawing program i had wrote directly to the omapfb - it wrote directly over the charging thing when i plugged it in about 5 minutes after "turning off" Apr 26 00:00:09 well flash works on the internal flash..... Apr 26 00:00:19 Haha, AStorm is right, lcuk, just turn it off. :P Apr 26 00:00:19 Keep the charger unplugged. Apr 26 00:00:32 so how do I fix my main OS, on the SD card, without widing it? Apr 26 00:00:34 i plugged charger in about 5 minutes AFTER Apr 26 00:00:40 wiping either Apr 26 00:01:33 * lcuk wonders how the device kept running a program in memory for 5 minutes when it was meant to be off Apr 26 00:01:48 it wasn't off Apr 26 00:01:50 then Apr 26 00:01:51 :) Apr 26 00:01:52 lcuk: charger enables it Apr 26 00:02:00 yes i know that... Apr 26 00:02:03 you see, it gets the device to start up Apr 26 00:02:03 but read what i said Apr 26 00:02:09 kot - yup :) Apr 26 00:02:16 WorkingOnWise: try a reboot Apr 26 00:02:23 poweroff, then pull the battery Apr 26 00:02:29 i think it does it to save battery Apr 26 00:02:44 how long should the bat be out? Apr 26 00:02:51 1 second Apr 26 00:03:24 ofgs - just take it out, and put it back in after blowing the contacts Apr 26 00:03:27 ok. booting back into the main OS.... Apr 26 00:03:35 lol Apr 26 00:04:19 I had a pda that would still boot with the battery out...took 5 minutes for the residual to discharge Apr 26 00:04:39 * lcuk wonders why there isnt a proper on/off Apr 26 00:04:48 lcuk, battery saving Apr 26 00:04:49 i dont need the lcd to show me its charging Apr 26 00:05:00 battery saving for what - i told it to turn off Apr 26 00:05:11 :) Apr 26 00:05:18 *the led throbber would be a good charging indicator) Apr 26 00:05:32 i know i can save maximum battery if i can turn off my device Apr 26 00:05:44 and i know all software has stopped running Apr 26 00:05:52 so that i wont find it dead by morning Apr 26 00:05:55 ok, back in, still broken flash.... Apr 26 00:06:23 It has to be partially booted to charge the battery. Apr 26 00:06:33 "It is now safe to turn off your computer. * unless an unruly process is hogging the cpu but we did terminate the cpufreq program so you will run at 400mhz" Apr 26 00:07:22 WorkingOnWise, you have b0rnen it Apr 26 00:07:32 are all the files for the browser, plugins included, in one folder that I can copy from the flash to the sd card, or are they scattered all over the place? Apr 26 00:07:49 lol....i see lcuk Apr 26 00:08:45 whoops Apr 26 00:08:50 made 6,4M of kernel modules Apr 26 00:08:54 time for some trimming ;> Apr 26 00:09:18 if I have to smoke the sd card, now is the time...but I'd rather learn how to fix it.... Apr 26 00:09:35 astorm: just don't include all of them in initfs Apr 26 00:09:40 :) Apr 26 00:10:06 KotCzarny: exactly Apr 26 00:10:25 do you think minefield could have broke microb? Apr 26 00:15:26 hmm, now clocking at 1,7 MB Apr 26 00:15:32 uhm, 2,7MB Apr 26 00:15:46 2,9M even Apr 26 00:15:51 and that's mostly essentials Apr 26 00:15:59 the kernel is only 1,7M OTOH Apr 26 00:16:06 essential for boot? Apr 26 00:16:07 :) Apr 26 00:16:44 not really Apr 26 00:16:51 but highly useful, like ipv4/6 Apr 26 00:16:59 wait, ipv4? that's built-in! Apr 26 00:17:02 and ipv6 too Apr 26 00:17:04 ;) Apr 26 00:17:07 so it must be netfilter ;P Apr 26 00:17:42 that saved 200K Apr 26 00:17:44 again, you should only have boot essential modules in initfs Apr 26 00:17:46 still huge Apr 26 00:17:57 KotCzarny: and recovery modules too? Apr 26 00:18:01 like, usbnet? Apr 26 00:18:05 yup Apr 26 00:18:14 and ofc cx3110x Apr 26 00:18:27 that's not essential Apr 26 00:18:36 unless you want to have wifi recovery mode Apr 26 00:18:39 no, it is, it can't be setup later on Apr 26 00:18:53 NO? Apr 26 00:18:58 sorry for caps Apr 26 00:21:10 56K crypto, 688K drivers, 524K fs, 36K lib, 268K net, 20K sound Apr 26 00:21:17 module breakdown Apr 26 00:21:42 why can't be wifi set up later? Apr 26 00:22:14 because the setup data are set in linuxrc Apr 26 00:22:27 and passed from the bootloader Apr 26 00:22:28 ? Apr 26 00:22:33 hum Apr 26 00:22:43 can't you just store it somewhere? Apr 26 00:22:47 no Apr 26 00:22:55 what kind of data it is? Apr 26 00:22:59 don't kow Apr 26 00:23:00 *know Apr 26 00:23:09 weird Apr 26 00:23:10 ok, it's 2,7MB *before compression* Apr 26 00:23:24 how it is handed to initfs? Apr 26 00:23:34 original was 0,8 MB Apr 26 00:23:43 ie. you can run programs from initfs via chroot Apr 26 00:23:57 that's how wifi is set up in free wifi driver Apr 26 00:24:19 ... Apr 26 00:24:30 ok, guess i'll be wiping the SD card again and not installing everything that twinkles my eye huh? Apr 26 00:24:45 WorkingOnWise: be careful and make backups Apr 26 00:25:06 KotCzarny: well, I can trim the initfs down some still Apr 26 00:25:13 astorm: hrw has info about it Apr 26 00:25:42 chroot /mnt/initfs wlan-cal Apr 26 00:25:46 that's the line Apr 26 00:26:05 yup Apr 26 00:26:11 but I want it pristine for now Apr 26 00:26:18 so I'll go about removing more drivers Apr 26 00:26:28 it's dirty because of binary drivers Apr 26 00:26:30 :> Apr 26 00:27:23 ext4 is large ;P Apr 26 00:27:49 additional 200K Apr 26 00:27:59 ext4? Apr 26 00:28:17 are you working on OS2009? Apr 26 00:29:19 now at 2M Apr 26 00:29:31 WorkingOnWise: no, I'm working on getting 2.6.25 running ;P Apr 26 00:29:59 is there goodies for the IT on 2.6.25? Apr 26 00:30:14 what? Apr 26 00:30:26 first of all, it's a kernel upgrade Apr 26 00:30:43 KotCzarny: btrfs is 350 KB Apr 26 00:30:50 ext4 is 300 KB Apr 26 00:30:54 :P Apr 26 00:31:00 :) Apr 26 00:31:15 well yeah, but is it for the sake of the upgrade, or do I want it as soon as you can get it out. I do like blood Apr 26 00:31:15 have you formatted sd with ext4? Apr 26 00:31:17 Ext4 mostly seems like a slightly better way to kill an SD card than ext3. ;) Apr 26 00:31:21 KotCzarny: not yet Apr 26 00:31:22 bleeding edge... Apr 26 00:31:26 GeneralAntilles: indeed Apr 26 00:31:40 USB mass storage on the other hand. . . . :D Apr 26 00:31:41 WorkingOnWise: it's mostly for the sake of performance, as 2.6.21 CPU scheduler sucks, really Apr 26 00:31:53 GeneralAntilles: usb mass storage doesn't have to be in initfs :> Apr 26 00:32:06 astorm, why not? Apr 26 00:32:06 so, I'll drop all the FS except btrfs Apr 26 00:32:17 ah, so we need it then. :D Apr 26 00:32:18 having rescue fs on usb-flash could be nice Apr 26 00:32:19 which I'm planning to put on internal mmc Apr 26 00:32:37 KotCzarny: why? why not on the card? ;P Apr 26 00:32:46 because it's a rescue fs Apr 26 00:32:52 so i assume card is b0rken Apr 26 00:32:53 ;) Apr 26 00:32:57 so replace it Apr 26 00:33:06 d'oh Apr 26 00:33:11 b0rken in the sense that os won't boot Apr 26 00:33:16 initfs != os Apr 26 00:33:17 because of the app-manager or anything Apr 26 00:33:28 where did i say 'initfs' ? Apr 26 00:33:33 i have said 'rescue fs' Apr 26 00:33:48 so, why do you need to rescue an fs on a removable device? Apr 26 00:33:55 can't just use the laptop for it? Apr 26 00:34:21 why do you need usb rescue then? Apr 26 00:34:25 I don' Apr 26 00:34:29 I axed that Apr 26 00:34:38 usbnet is useful OTOH Apr 26 00:34:45 only for you Apr 26 00:34:45 :) Apr 26 00:34:48 I mean, actually, g_ether Apr 26 00:34:50 gadget Apr 26 00:35:00 it's all up to user's needs Apr 26 00:35:19 that's why default in distros is 'bloat mode' Apr 26 00:35:46 yup Apr 26 00:35:49 AStorm get rotate working in the 2008he kernel next Apr 26 00:35:52 deal? Apr 26 00:35:54 in initfs, we can't afford bloat Apr 26 00:36:03 2008he? nah, I don't have N770 Apr 26 00:36:16 and rotate is software, not kernel Apr 26 00:36:22 unless you're talking about omapfb Apr 26 00:36:47 is there a good app for the n800 yet that will auto download and install podcasts? Apr 26 00:36:49 770 can't do rotate in hardware Apr 26 00:37:01 KotCzarny: neither can N8x0 Apr 26 00:37:05 that's why there's no rotate hack for 770 Apr 26 00:37:09 astorm: not true Apr 26 00:37:10 aa ok Apr 26 00:37:13 er play Apr 26 00:37:15 it's lcd that does roation Apr 26 00:37:17 KotCzarny: indeed? info plz Apr 26 00:37:19 >> Apr 26 00:37:21 ah, that Apr 26 00:37:29 sure, it is possible Apr 26 00:37:37 but the 770 lcd cant do it? Apr 26 00:37:46 tsukasa: canola should do Apr 26 00:37:48 from what i have read Apr 26 00:37:56 everything except autodownload Apr 26 00:38:05 astorm: and media playing? Apr 26 00:38:06 :> Apr 26 00:38:09 lol Apr 26 00:38:14 KotCzarny: nah, it will play podcasts Apr 26 00:38:21 rotated? Apr 26 00:38:40 ah, sorry, my eyes fail me Apr 26 00:39:19 ok, now at 1,2M Apr 26 00:39:26 which is only 400 KB more than original Apr 26 00:39:43 and all of it is btrfs Apr 26 00:39:47 and crypto Apr 26 00:40:05 (which I could've put into kernel too, blah) Apr 26 00:41:14 or just load from vfat partition Apr 26 00:41:15 ;) Apr 26 00:42:20 gnite lads Apr 26 00:42:29 nite nite Apr 26 00:42:44 KotCzarny: indeed Apr 26 00:42:51 or from ext partition Apr 26 00:42:55 or even btrfs Apr 26 00:51:11 whats a good customizable app menu for OS2008 Apr 26 00:51:26 personal menu? Apr 26 00:51:51 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/personal-menu/ Apr 26 01:10:12 hmm, does the initfs have to be jffs2? Apr 26 01:10:30 i think it has to be anything mountable by kernel Apr 26 01:10:38 but Apr 26 01:10:39 cpio.gz is ok? Apr 26 01:10:45 Make it jffs2 Apr 26 01:10:51 You don't want to burn out your flash. Apr 26 01:10:55 is cpio.gz mountable? Apr 26 01:10:59 initfs? you're funny Apr 26 01:11:07 GeneralAntilles: it's not writable anyway, so? Apr 26 01:11:16 remember you don't have anything during / mount Apr 26 01:11:23 KotCzarny: well, kernel can mount it as initramfs Apr 26 01:11:28 e-e Apr 26 01:11:30 using normal options Apr 26 01:11:36 initramf has to be glued to kernel Apr 26 01:11:44 yes and no Apr 26 01:11:44 and kernel space is limited to 2mb Apr 26 01:11:47 mhm Apr 26 01:11:54 so, it has to be some loopback? Apr 26 01:12:06 make it cramfs Apr 26 01:12:12 ok, cramfs will do too Apr 26 01:12:37 I'd love squashfs, but haven't patched that in Apr 26 01:12:45 wait, no cramfs in either ;P Apr 26 01:12:46 yeah Apr 26 01:12:54 i used squashfs Apr 26 01:13:08 but after waiting for a correct patch for new kernel i gave up Apr 26 01:13:12 and moved to cramfs Apr 26 01:13:17 for new kernels it's simple Apr 26 01:13:23 you take the git tree of squashfs Apr 26 01:13:26 :> Apr 26 01:13:34 you have 2.6.25, you have cramfs Apr 26 01:13:36 :) Apr 26 01:13:43 but do I have it built in? Apr 26 01:13:48 yes Apr 26 01:14:05 as i said, during initial / mount you don't have anything Apr 26 01:14:23 unless you make initramfs in <300kb and glue it to kernel Apr 26 01:14:25 :) Apr 26 01:14:26 is it mounted like initrd, or something special? Apr 26 01:14:33 nope Apr 26 01:14:38 ah, so normal root Apr 26 01:14:47 ok, that makes it easier Apr 26 01:14:49 yup Apr 26 01:14:56 I could even make it vfat Apr 26 01:15:02 how much space is available for initfs? Apr 26 01:15:16 check the mtdblock sizes Apr 26 01:15:23 hmm Apr 26 01:15:49 you can do it with dd reading too Apr 26 01:16:01 it's probably mtd #3 Apr 26 01:16:38 2M only, ouch Apr 26 01:16:48 :) Apr 26 01:16:57 and it's 3,5M now Apr 26 01:17:05 uncompressed? Apr 26 01:17:06 need some fairly strong compression Apr 26 01:17:07 yes Apr 26 01:17:12 then you will make it Apr 26 01:17:24 where do I get jffs2 progs Apr 26 01:17:32 what are they called? Apr 26 01:17:50 * KotCzarny haven't used jffs2 by itself Apr 26 01:17:56 check google/kernel docs Apr 26 01:18:35 cramfs is 1,6M Apr 26 01:19:19 now the question is if initfs needs rw for anything Apr 26 01:19:28 i assume nokia's patchiness and weirdness Apr 26 01:19:30 CONFIG_CRAMFS is not set ;P Apr 26 01:19:38 then make it set :P Apr 26 01:19:43 if they do, I can make sure they don't P Apr 26 01:19:49 initfs is under my control Apr 26 01:20:14 unless some of the utils need write access Apr 26 01:20:17 :) Apr 26 01:20:24 only to device nodes Apr 26 01:20:32 some are made in /tmp/dev, which is 512K tmpfs Apr 26 01:20:40 /var could be a candidate Apr 26 01:24:16 I'll try cramfs Apr 26 01:24:24 k Apr 26 01:24:29 let me know how it went Apr 26 01:24:31 maybe I'll redo it as jffs2 later on, for easier modding Apr 26 01:24:43 define 'easier' Apr 26 01:24:45 :) Apr 26 01:24:47 actually... it should be writable, no? Apr 26 01:24:54 directly, on the device Apr 26 01:25:01 jffs2 isn't ro Apr 26 01:25:01 ;P Apr 26 01:25:01 dd Apr 26 01:25:03 :) Apr 26 01:25:20 no Apr 26 01:25:20 directly, using jffs2 driver Apr 26 01:25:32 i don't know Apr 26 01:25:38 try it before you reflash initfs Apr 26 01:25:40 I'm thinking my arse off w/o checking if it's writable ;P Apr 26 01:25:49 ie. try remounting /mnt/initfs rw Apr 26 01:25:59 yp Apr 26 01:26:20 worked ;P Apr 26 01:26:31 actual writing to it too? Apr 26 01:26:37 checking Apr 26 01:26:44 what's a good way to back up a sd card that i boot from? Apr 26 01:26:52 n800n: dd Apr 26 01:26:59 KotCzarny: not really Apr 26 01:27:05 "No space left on device" Apr 26 01:27:08 astorm: so it's ro? Apr 26 01:27:12 no Apr 26 01:27:13 is that commandline only? Apr 26 01:27:17 I can edit files ;P Apr 26 01:27:29 does the changes persist? Apr 26 01:27:32 *do Apr 26 01:27:40 nah, can't write ;P Apr 26 01:27:48 ok, it's effectively ro Apr 26 01:27:52 ;) Apr 26 01:27:53 time to flash Apr 26 01:28:14 n800n: then use norton ghost Apr 26 01:28:26 (m$ windoze user i assume) Apr 26 01:28:39 no free ones that you know of? Apr 26 01:28:46 mac or win Apr 26 01:28:52 i don't use m$ windows/mac Apr 26 01:28:54 n800n, backup your sd card to where? Apr 26 01:29:05 the SD card itself? Apr 26 01:29:06 pc/mac Apr 26 01:29:09 or another device? Apr 26 01:29:10 dd is easy Apr 26 01:29:12 one liner Apr 26 01:29:23 cp is even easier than dd Apr 26 01:29:33 cp won't copy partition table Apr 26 01:29:39 are you stupid? Apr 26 01:29:46 do you not understand how linux works? Apr 26 01:29:48 you are stupind stfukthx Apr 26 01:29:57 WormFood: stfu, plzdiethx Apr 26 01:29:59 how in the fuck would dd copy the partition table and cp not? Apr 26 01:30:03 cp copies files Apr 26 01:30:05 cp /dev/sda Apr 26 01:30:12 wormfud: diediefuckdieeediefuckoffdie Apr 26 01:30:17 WormFood: yes, please Apr 26 01:30:19 you clearly do not understand how linux works Apr 26 01:30:22 cp will take ages to do this Apr 26 01:30:25 you cp the device Apr 26 01:30:30 go read the man page on dd Apr 26 01:30:37 no, you copy the device file Apr 26 01:30:40 not the device. Apr 26 01:30:42 dd will copy in large blocks Apr 26 01:30:53 KotCzarny: with some option, cp will copy the contents Apr 26 01:30:58 dd will copy in any block size you want Apr 26 01:31:01 yep Apr 26 01:31:05 AStorm, that is not true, unless you manually tell it to copy large blocks Apr 26 01:31:11 WormFood: indeed Apr 26 01:31:12 cp /dev/sda backup Apr 26 01:31:19 but you can't tell that to cp :> Apr 26 01:31:25 anyway, use cat Apr 26 01:31:26 dd is meant for block devices Apr 26 01:31:28 you don't need to with cp Apr 26 01:31:30 cat /dev/sda > backup ;) Apr 26 01:31:31 cat will do it too Apr 26 01:31:38 but then, don't Apr 26 01:31:46 dd is meant for that, and it's better at its job Apr 26 01:31:48 KotCzarny, that is not true Apr 26 01:31:54 dd is not better at that job Apr 26 01:31:57 it is Apr 26 01:31:59 GO READ THE MAN PAGE FOR DD Apr 26 01:32:03 you can pick block size, d'oh Apr 26 01:32:03 what are you converting? Apr 26 01:32:13 and copy in fragments Apr 26 01:32:20 there are only specific things that dd is better than cp at Apr 26 01:32:33 for example, if I wanted to copy the first 50 blocks of a device, then dd is better Apr 26 01:32:34 like copying fixed size block devices Apr 26 01:32:49 KotCzarny, what does that have to do with it? Apr 26 01:32:53 or if you want fdatasync Apr 26 01:33:00 to be ubersure the data reaches device Apr 26 01:33:00 ;P Apr 26 01:33:00 you want to manually tell dd how many blocks to copy? Apr 26 01:33:12 that isn't "ubresure" Apr 26 01:33:13 and fsync Apr 26 01:33:18 also dd has progress indicator Apr 26 01:33:19 :) Apr 26 01:33:21 or use O_DIRECT Apr 26 01:33:31 yep, the most needed thing, progress bar ;) Apr 26 01:33:32 dd has a progress indicator? since when? Apr 26 01:33:38 lol Apr 26 01:33:44 WormFood: kill -USR1 $(pidof dd) Apr 26 01:33:51 heh Apr 26 01:33:57 astorm: add watch -n10 Apr 26 01:33:58 :) Apr 26 01:34:02 ya Apr 26 01:34:22 anyway, time to boot Apr 26 01:34:32 * KotCzarny boots astorm Apr 26 01:34:35 in flash mode Apr 26 01:34:49 you should try fanoush tools Apr 26 01:34:52 you will love them Apr 26 01:35:07 they suck Apr 26 01:35:12 and broke my fs Apr 26 01:35:15 :> Apr 26 01:35:16 lol Apr 26 01:35:24 have you meddled with them? Apr 26 01:35:26 :) Apr 26 01:35:27 yes Apr 26 01:35:34 so it wasn't them Apr 26 01:35:37 but your meddling Apr 26 01:35:37 :> Apr 26 01:35:39 no Apr 26 01:35:47 actually, I just tried to flash his initfs Apr 26 01:35:50 with these Apr 26 01:35:54 and it failed miserably Apr 26 01:36:02 got an autoreboot ;P Apr 26 01:36:05 i have flashed kernel and initfs with them Apr 26 01:36:11 simple and fast Apr 26 01:36:11 :) Apr 26 01:36:42 cat? Apr 26 01:36:46 You broke something, then, AStorm. Apr 26 01:36:50 Thousands of people use them without issue Apr 26 01:36:58 you're the first person I've ever heard complain about them. Apr 26 01:36:59 i wouldn't say 'thousands' Apr 26 01:37:01 hehe Apr 26 01:37:09 dd then Apr 26 01:37:12 maybe tens Apr 26 01:37:24 and even then i wouldn't be so sure Apr 26 01:37:25 :> Apr 26 01:37:40 ok, flashed Apr 26 01:37:43 now reboot time Apr 26 01:37:43 ugh! I just found a bug with NumptyPhysics, stopping me from exiting the program :( Apr 26 01:38:22 The only key bound to quit is 'q' :( Apr 26 01:38:32 lol Apr 26 01:39:14 hmmhmm, white Nokia screen right now Apr 26 01:39:19 and nothing else ;P Apr 26 01:39:34 enable fb console? Apr 26 01:39:41 ok, wait, it nicely went back to a black screen Apr 26 01:39:45 I had Apr 26 01:39:57 I guess it just doesn't boot, hehe Apr 26 01:40:05 I'll try the original initfs Apr 26 01:40:10 it should work w/o wlan Apr 26 01:42:32 Ok, the kernel is at fault Apr 26 01:42:44 I forgot something, maybe Apr 26 01:42:51 or did something wrong :> Apr 26 01:43:01 have you set root device? Apr 26 01:43:12 hmm, nolo should do that? Apr 26 01:43:23 i don't know Apr 26 01:43:55 seeing output from kernel usually tells what's the problem Apr 26 01:44:38 ahha, I've enabled McBSP Apr 26 01:44:42 the defconfig doesn't have that Apr 26 01:44:48 might be the culprit Apr 26 01:44:55 what's mcbsp? Apr 26 01:45:12 read the menuconfig Apr 26 01:45:29 i'm not close to my main pc right now Apr 26 01:45:36 actually i'm in bed Apr 26 01:47:20 Multichannel Buffered Serial Port Apr 26 01:47:29 O.o Apr 26 01:47:56 and debug uart is no 3, not 1 Apr 26 01:51:57 ok, no rootflags Apr 26 01:52:01 that's the main killer ;P Apr 26 01:52:11 they do pass the flags to the kernel in menuconfig Apr 26 01:52:17 so i was right? Apr 26 01:52:18 :> Apr 26 01:52:20 yup Apr 26 01:52:22 :> Apr 26 01:52:35 (as always) Apr 26 01:52:36 ;) Apr 26 01:53:13 I'll mod it to rw ;) Apr 26 01:53:30 kamikaze Apr 26 01:53:31 :) Apr 26 01:54:08 ;) Apr 26 01:54:41 the worst that can happen is that flash dies after a few reflashes Apr 26 01:54:54 it shouldn't Apr 26 01:55:10 even if it's rated 1000 cycles Apr 26 01:55:17 (but i presume it's more) Apr 26 01:56:41 still fail :) Apr 26 01:57:12 enable fb console Apr 26 01:57:12 :) Apr 26 01:57:16 ah right Apr 26 01:57:19 no no, that's in Apr 26 01:57:30 what's out is that I said it's jffs2 Apr 26 01:57:34 while it's cramfs Apr 26 01:57:35 then you should see kernel boot messages Apr 26 01:57:41 i see Nokia screen ;P Apr 26 01:57:55 modify initfs scripts Apr 26 01:57:59 hm? Apr 26 01:58:03 ok Apr 26 02:04:47 still fail :> Apr 26 02:07:47 can anybody help me with my hildon.FileChooserDialog in python? Apr 26 02:08:07 I can't make it filter the files at all Apr 26 02:14:24 same problem here: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/pymaemo-developers/2008-February/000267.html supposedly that script should work, but I get no filters and nothing on tap-and-hold menu either Apr 26 02:15:27 KotCzarny: funny, FBCON is disabled in nokia defconfig Apr 26 02:15:34 yup Apr 26 02:15:46 they do you fb though Apr 26 02:15:50 *use Apr 26 02:16:32 btw, I should flash zImage or vmlinux? Apr 26 02:16:41 the smaller Apr 26 02:16:51 mhm Apr 26 02:16:51 the one from arch/something Apr 26 02:17:22 mhm, zImage Apr 26 02:17:45 there's also arch/arm/boot/compressed/vmlinux Apr 26 02:17:58 vmlinux is uncompressed i think Apr 26 02:18:11 nah, both are compressed Apr 26 02:18:51 hmm Apr 26 02:19:39 hum Apr 26 02:19:46 ok, you are right on this one Apr 26 02:19:47 :) Apr 26 02:20:00 but it's vmlinux.bin Apr 26 02:20:11 vmlinux in the /usr/src/linux is uncompressed though Apr 26 02:24:19 how can you unlock an n800 with OS2008 through vnc or ssh? Apr 26 02:37:47 KotCzarny: it must be zImage Apr 26 02:37:53 yes Apr 26 02:37:58 and I'm trying now with real built-in initfs Apr 26 02:38:03 real tiny Apr 26 02:38:33 shouldn't you be sleeping? Apr 26 02:38:35 :) Apr 26 02:40:27 KotCzarny: sleep is for the weak ;) Apr 26 02:40:40 your eyes will hate you Apr 26 02:40:42 and it's weekend, so wtf do you care anyway Apr 26 02:40:43 is there maybe a keyboard shortcut? Apr 26 02:40:53 oh yeah? they can't hate me more ;) Apr 26 02:40:56 randall: no Apr 26 02:40:58 i have learned that i need sleep Apr 26 02:41:12 you can remove lock with linux flasher Apr 26 02:41:13 next-day symptoms Apr 26 02:41:32 hehe Apr 26 02:41:43 this initfs is very wasteful Apr 26 02:41:48 e.g. full uClibc Apr 26 02:41:56 that's actually nice Apr 26 02:41:57 :) Apr 26 02:42:08 yes and no Apr 26 02:42:15 it should use static progs Apr 26 02:42:20 smaller with uclibc Apr 26 02:42:34 depends how many progs you want to have Apr 26 02:42:39 I need to trim 200 KB off the kernel Apr 26 02:42:44 maybe BT, oh yep Apr 26 02:44:11 no interface available through /proc or /sys? I am root. Apr 26 02:44:22 I think there's none Apr 26 02:44:34 ok, moved sound, BT and v4l to module Apr 26 02:44:39 should shave off quite a bit Apr 26 02:48:12 when n900 is out? Apr 26 02:48:18 tomorrow Apr 26 02:48:22 k Apr 26 02:48:33 and i will give you same answer every day Apr 26 02:48:34 ;) Apr 26 02:48:48 because there are no dates set yet Apr 26 02:48:54 no public dates that is Apr 26 02:49:25 you don't even know the name Apr 26 02:50:38 10. Availability Apr 26 02:50:38 The Nokia N900 Smart Tablet will hit store shelves in June 2008. Apr 26 02:50:39 lol Apr 26 02:50:50 9. Price Apr 26 02:50:50 The Nokia N900 Smart Tablet will retail for approximately $750. Apr 26 02:50:51 lol2 Apr 26 02:50:56 does it run linux :) Apr 26 02:51:07 7. Operating system Apr 26 02:51:08 The N900 will be powered by Smart Tablet OS 2008 (based on Maemo) Apr 26 02:51:18 my 810 shows up in 2 days yay!!!! Apr 26 02:51:42 6. Connectivity Apr 26 02:51:42 The N900 will come with support for Quad-band GSM, HSDPA, WiMAX, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. Apr 26 02:51:44 lol? Apr 26 02:52:14 The Nokia N900 will be a mini-version of the N800, with a 3.5" display Apr 26 02:52:20 junk Apr 26 02:52:20 booo Apr 26 02:52:41 and they want to fit all the GSM, WiMax, WiFi and BT into an even smaller case Apr 26 02:52:44 rotfl Apr 26 02:52:44 1. Name Apr 26 02:52:44 Combine the best functionality from the already existing Smartphone and Internet Tablet line-ups, and Nokia's new iPhone competitor would naturally be named "Nokia N900 Smart Tablet". Apr 26 02:52:47 name, ehehe Apr 26 02:52:58 while not impossible, it's not easy Apr 26 02:53:14 size goes down, price goes up Apr 26 02:53:14 where is the information Apr 26 02:53:15 ;) Apr 26 02:53:20 http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/8262.html Apr 26 02:53:21 they should just add another sd slot and some usb to the n810, beef up the video cam Apr 26 02:53:37 NullM0dem: and unbreak GSM? ;) Apr 26 02:53:42 also, add back the radio Apr 26 02:53:43 sure Apr 26 02:53:50 and improve battery by 300 mAh Apr 26 02:53:53 not going to happen Apr 26 02:53:54 yes Apr 26 02:53:55 :) Apr 26 02:54:10 well just have to make our own then lol Apr 26 02:54:10 n800 is the last beefed up version Apr 26 02:54:22 usb radio? Apr 26 02:54:23 :) Apr 26 02:54:32 ah, right Apr 26 02:54:36 make a Hacker Edition Apr 26 02:54:36 hijack the fabrication fcillitys for half a year Apr 26 02:54:44 with visible I2C, GPIOs etc. Apr 26 02:54:45 lol Apr 26 02:55:02 or at least make these easily available off the breadboard Apr 26 02:55:03 nm: more doable with a group of psychics Apr 26 02:55:04 ;) Apr 26 02:56:19 ... Apr 26 02:58:16 lol Apr 26 02:58:28 the OMAP kernel is not really modularized Apr 26 02:58:34 almost nothing builds as modules Apr 26 02:58:39 :> Apr 26 02:58:42 hackers. Apr 26 02:58:46 lazy hackers. Apr 26 02:58:48 :) Apr 26 02:59:04 or hackers without enough time ;) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Apr 26 02:59:57 2008