**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 05 02:59:57 2008
May 05 03:38:28 <__raFaeL__> maemo-br
May 05 04:17:08 <lopz> night
May 05 04:48:37 <benh> hrm
May 05 04:48:50 <benh> so bluez-utils on maemo doesn't contain any of the utils in /usr/bin ?
May 05 04:48:54 <benh> like pand is missing...
May 05 04:48:58 <benh> any idea what's up ?
May 05 05:06:49 <benh> ok, found
May 05 05:06:54 <benh> stupid new network services
May 05 05:43:41 <pupnik> benh: bluez is deprecated now, yes?
May 05 05:44:08 <benh> well, not really, the code still comes from bluez
May 05 05:44:29 <benh> but yeah, they deprecated good ol pand in favor of the new dbus based garbage
May 05 05:46:06 <benh> well, it may not be garbage per-se but it's a pain in the neck :-)
May 05 05:46:14 <mibus> what part of it aren't you happy with? having to use d-bus?
May 05 05:54:21 <benh> mibus: I like ranting :-)
May 05 05:54:29 <benh> mibus: but yeah, having to use dbus
May 05 05:54:48 <benh> mibus: I find it a pain in the neck, but that's just personal opinion
May 05 05:54:58 <tsukasa> yo
May 05 05:55:11 <benh> mibus: nothing as simple as pand --help to figure out what you need to do
May 05 05:55:16 <tsukasa> is the svn of the browser faster then whats builtin
May 05 05:55:27 <tsukasa> because the built in is slower then all fuck
May 05 05:55:34 <mibus> benh: thanks for the info :)
May 05 05:55:37 <tsukasa> i tried to load my netvibes homepage and it died
May 05 05:56:03 <Navi> The built in one lacks desperately needed optimizations
May 05 05:56:05 <Navi> >_>
May 05 05:56:13 <Navi> Especially to the JavaScript core
May 05 05:56:30 <tsukasa> so the svn is faster?
May 05 05:56:53 <benh> I'm totally new to maemo (and in fact to gtk etc... ) so I'm going to ask around the lazy way ... but is there any piece of code you suggest I look at to
May 05 05:56:59 <Navi> tsukasa, should be
May 05 05:57:01 <benh> do a control panel and to scan bluetooth devices ?
May 05 05:57:26 <benh> before I waste days digging in docos and .h files
May 05 06:07:43 <johnx> benh, I think "personal menu" has a pretty nice control panel
May 05 06:08:05 <johnx> as for scanning bluetooth, I don't know any open source software that does that with dbus stuff
May 05 06:09:20 <mibus> I don't know if it uses bluetooth, but in GNOME there's a bluetooth applet that can browse for devices
May 05 06:09:51 <mibus> I'm fairly certain that there's a reusable drop-down gtk selector widget somewhere that allows choosing of bluetooth devices, again not sure if it's dbusified
May 05 06:10:13 <mibus> (I'm picking up my n810 next week, so no maemo, but I've done gtk+ stuff in the past)
May 05 06:19:48 <benh> johnx: ok, I'll dig, thanks
May 05 06:20:09 <benh> mibus: ok, I'll google around and look
May 05 06:20:42 <johnx> personal menu is here: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/personal-menu/
May 05 06:20:54 <benh> johnx: yeah, I found it, but thanks
May 05 06:21:34 <johnx> ah, ok
May 05 06:22:03 <benh> now we'll see if I manage to find enough time to actually do anything... might take the laptop on the plane
May 05 06:22:07 <benh> next week
May 05 06:22:18 <benh> though I don't think I'm going to do BT scanning in flight :-)
May 05 06:23:20 <johnx> ahaha, I remember messing with bt at work during lunch and accidentally bringing up "connection attempt, enter passkey" on 3 computers and a couple phones :D
May 05 06:23:49 <mibus> I really wonder about the range of bluetooth, given I can often see phones that aren't mine, when I'm in my loungeroom
May 05 06:24:00 <mibus> (and it's a full house, not a flat or unit, no shared walls, ...)
May 05 06:24:11 <benh> yeah, I can see phones from another level of the building here
May 05 06:24:27 <johnx> it's especially crazy on trains
May 05 06:24:40 <benh> the n810 BT antenna is good ... unlike the GPS one
May 05 06:24:52 <benh> at first I though the GPS was busted ...
May 05 06:25:33 <mibus> benh: http://www.hadess.net/2007/03/return-of-bluetooth-stuff.html
May 05 06:25:36 <benh> I pretty much have to acquire the sattelites outside of the car in fact
May 05 06:25:44 <benh> then I can go in and it works once it's locked
May 05 06:25:50 <benh> mibus: thanks
May 05 06:25:55 <mibus> benh: my pleasure
May 05 06:26:07 <mibus> benh: I knew reading planet gnome every day for several years would pay off eventually ;)
May 05 06:26:51 <mibus> benh: how does the n810 deal with maps these days? do you have to buy them, or are the openstreemaps maps OK?
May 05 06:27:02 <mibus> benh: and does it do route calculations with them?
May 05 06:27:12 <benh> it came with a commercial map for .au
May 05 06:27:22 <benh> but for navigation, you have to pay for wayfinder
May 05 06:27:31 <benh> about $150AUD for 3 years iirc for australia
May 05 06:27:35 <benh> (you pay per region)
May 05 06:27:35 <mibus> benh: cool (I'm in SA)
May 05 06:27:42 <benh> I'm in ACT
May 05 06:27:52 <benh> I haven't toyed with the open stuff yet
May 05 06:27:54 <mibus> benh: you must be the only person there with an n810! :)
May 05 06:28:10 <mibus> benh: there seem to be so few places that have them here
May 05 06:28:13 <benh> heh, found it at dick smith in sydney
May 05 06:28:22 <benh> they are trickling in it seems
May 05 06:28:45 <benh> I didn't expect to find one in fact, that was a surprise. A bit on the pricey side of things tho .. about $650
May 05 06:28:48 <benh> (AUD)
May 05 06:29:06 <benh> now, I need to find a good BT keyboard bcs the internal one sucks :-)
May 05 06:29:33 <benh> I should read planet gnome ... funnily enough, I've never done anything with GUI on linux
May 05 06:29:50 <mibus> benh: I ordered through Tandy, paying & picking upnext weekend
May 05 06:29:57 <benh> I have little clues about either GTK or QT, though i've done my share of GUI stuff on MacOS (classic) in the old days
May 05 06:30:05 <mibus> benh: I'm paying $700 including a longer warranty
May 05 06:30:09 <benh> and all GUI toolkits generally share the same basic principles
May 05 06:30:29 <mibus> benh: I have an apple BT keyb that I'm hoping to use (collecting dust ATM)
May 05 06:30:34 <benh> so It's a good excuse for me to start to look at GTK :-)
May 05 06:30:43 <mibus> I really like Gtk+, but I've not had a huge amount of experience
May 05 06:30:52 <benh> well, Apple BT is not quite the deal to travel with, I'm hoping something in between
May 05 06:30:55 <mibus> (no QT, but I've done Gtk+/Cocoa/Swing)
May 05 06:31:00 <mibus> yeah it's a giant keyboard
May 05 06:31:09 <benh> when I'm home, I'll look into using synergy from the desktop :-)
May 05 06:31:23 <mibus> yeah I want to use it for writing notes in meetings
May 05 06:31:30 <mibus> anyway, got to run off for a sec :)
May 05 06:31:32 <benh> I've only looked at Cocoa quickly, back when I had Rhaspody DR1 :-)
May 05 06:44:41 <mibus> b
May 05 06:45:02 <mibus> benh: I really liked Cocoa. Never used it for any "real" apps, but the interface builder was really easy to use
May 05 06:45:21 <mibus> benh: and I liked ObjC too, once I got used to the syntax
May 05 06:46:07 <benh> ObjC is interesting, though yeah, the syntax is somewhat alien
May 05 06:46:07 <mibus> benh: Swing was just a nightmare. The only way it ended up usable for me, was use layout widgets to act like hbox & vboxes do in Gtk
May 05 06:48:06 <mibus> benh: I'm just dying to get my hands on my n810, after waiting all this time
May 05 06:48:23 <mibus> benh: I used to do Gtk+ stuff on PDAs back maybe 2001-2003
May 05 07:08:13 <SenileBob> benh, mibus: Another aussie here. Any of you guys developers for Maemo?
May 05 07:08:30 <mibus> SenileBob: Alas, no
May 05 07:08:48 <SenileBob> dang
May 05 07:08:50 <mibus> SenileBob: I'm still waiting for my n810, but I intend to at least get back into app development for it
May 05 07:09:38 <SenileBob> im developing a home automation app for it, well - want to. I'm not a linux guy, .net developer, so need someone to do some work for me
May 05 07:09:58 <benh> SenileBob: nah
May 05 07:10:11 <SenileBob> but worst case, i have a web app working for what i want, so i can just run the web app fullscreen on the N800
May 05 07:10:33 <benh> SenileBob: I do linux powerpc kernel stuffs :-) just got myself a n810 and toying with it
May 05 07:10:39 <mibus> SenileBob: web apps are so useful sometimes (I'm a PHP dev right now)
May 05 07:11:00 <SenileBob> it uses flash to communicate with the automation processor, flash XMLSockets are a godsend for my line of work
May 05 07:11:06 <mibus> benh: wait, you're *that* benh?
May 05 07:11:12 <trickie_> hey aussies
May 05 07:11:23 <SenileBob> hey trickie
May 05 07:11:33 * trickie_ is one also... but stuck on the other side of the world
May 05 07:11:43 <mibus> hi trickie_
May 05 07:12:01 <SenileBob> trickie: you a maemo dev?
May 05 07:12:24 <benh> mibus: is there another one ? :-)
May 05 07:12:27 <trickie_> SenileBob: no, but i have been hacking on my n800 for a while
May 05 07:12:41 <mibus> benh: well, I don't go around assuming stuff ;). Didn't realise you were an aussie
May 05 07:12:49 <benh> mibus: I'm not :-)
May 05 07:12:56 <benh> mibus: I'm french but I live in australia
May 05 07:13:02 <mibus> benh: ah, got it
May 05 07:13:03 <KotCzarny> o.o
May 05 07:13:08 <benh> mibus: most of the linux powerpc stuff happens here in Canberra :-)
May 05 07:13:15 <mibus> benh: my last laptop was a G3/800, so I used a lot of your work I figure - thanks :)
May 05 07:13:19 <benh> heh
May 05 07:13:28 <mibus> benh: is there still much going on, now apple has shifted over?
May 05 07:13:41 <benh> I'm quite busy yes :-)
May 05 07:13:48 <mibus> cool
May 05 07:13:56 <benh> less visible stuff ... IBM power machines support, cell stuffs, etc...
May 05 07:14:00 <SenileBob> ive posted a question on internettablettalk about communicating with a N800 via SSH/SFTP - anyone got any experience with that stuff? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19795
May 05 07:14:00 <trickie_> benh: this is offtopic but do you know a Philippe Loève (he lives in paris)?
May 05 07:14:01 <benh> lots of embedded bits too
May 05 07:14:12 <benh> trickie: how old ?
May 05 07:14:20 <benh> trickie: he's probably a cousin of mine
May 05 07:14:25 <trickie_> benh: 40 -45 ish
May 05 07:14:28 <trickie_> yes i think so
May 05 07:14:31 <benh> trickie: my mom is a Loeve :-)
May 05 07:14:31 <trickie_> so am i apparently :)
May 05 07:14:34 <benh> heh
May 05 07:14:36 <trickie_> distantly
May 05 07:14:42 <trickie_> i am a loeve
May 05 07:14:46 <benh> heh
May 05 07:14:55 <benh> I don't know the loeve part of the familiy that well :-0
May 05 07:15:01 <trickie_> he he
May 05 07:15:07 <benh> so you're a descendant of max ?
May 05 07:15:14 <trickie_> yep
May 05 07:15:28 <benh> privmsg :-)
May 05 07:42:23 <aquatix> old family unite :)
May 05 07:43:41 <aquatix> SenileBob: i would say that it worked similar to that iPhone situation
May 05 07:43:49 <aquatix> just remote commands over ssh
May 05 07:43:56 <trickie_> aquatix: yep ha ha
May 05 07:44:10 <aquatix> btw, use scp instead of sftp, eliminates another service ;)
May 05 07:44:18 <aquatix> scp works over ssh and is neat
May 05 07:44:22 <KotCzarny> use sshfs
May 05 07:44:23 <KotCzarny> :)
May 05 07:44:49 <aquatix> that's fuse
May 05 07:44:55 <aquatix> is that available on n8x0?
May 05 07:45:00 <KotCzarny> yes
May 05 07:45:00 <aquatix> oh wait
May 05 07:45:10 <aquatix> it only has to be available on his pc
May 05 07:45:18 <KotCzarny> but is available on n8x0 too
May 05 07:45:25 <aquatix> except... that he wants to do it from a vb.net app
May 05 07:45:38 <KotCzarny> vb.. urrgrhgrhghh
May 05 07:45:40 * aquatix would stick with scp ;)
May 05 07:45:44 <aquatix> KotCzarny: yeah
May 05 07:46:08 <aquatix> *whyyy* :P
May 05 08:38:27 <Italodance> what is dimdim?
May 05 08:39:36 <Italodance> i got it
May 05 08:53:17 <AD-N770> bon dia / good morning
May 05 09:08:42 <jldiaz> anyone uses BitchX for irc?
May 05 09:09:05 <eichi> jldiaz, dont use ugly words like bitch please ;)
May 05 09:09:57 <jldiaz> ok, so, anyone uses Bit*X for irc? :-)
May 05 09:15:15 <eichi> jldiaz, ;)
May 05 09:15:27 <jldiaz> re
May 05 09:24:28 <jeddy3> uhm, how do you enter a channel on irc with built-in-messenger and rtcomm? :)
May 05 09:25:18 <solmumaha> jeddy3: not sure you do :) but if you can find it, do tell
May 05 09:25:49 <jeddy3> solmumaha, ;)
May 05 09:27:28 <Blom> :D
May 05 10:09:25 <hrw> jeddy3: simple it is
May 05 10:09:50 <hrw> jeddy3: add irc account and then use 'internet chat' application to enter chat room
May 05 10:13:04 <jeddy3> hrw: ah, yes, found it x_X
May 05 10:27:14 <solmumaha> hrw: thanks
May 05 10:47:17 <florian> good morning
May 05 11:12:44 <lcuk> morning florian :)
May 05 11:13:14 <florian> hi lcuk
May 05 11:13:22 <lcuk> are you all set for ltag
May 05 11:13:23 <X-Fade_> Hi all
May 05 11:13:33 <lcuk> hi x
May 05 11:13:45 <hrw> not yet lcuk
May 05 11:14:08 <lcuk> are you goin as well hrw
May 05 11:15:07 <hrw> lcuk: plan to but it is not decided yet
May 05 11:15:42 <lcuk> ahh, well i have flights arranged which involve waking at some ungodly time
May 05 11:16:15 <lcuk> the milkman wont have brought my milk!
May 05 11:16:30 <hrw> lcuk: Berlin is few hours by car
May 05 11:17:18 <lcuk> it was 23 hours last time i travelled by car to germany - and that was just over the border
May 05 11:21:42 * lcuk grabs dinner
May 05 11:22:24 <Blafasel> 5 hours to berlin from here
May 05 11:22:40 <shapr> Many hours from Boston to Berlin.
May 05 11:22:46 <benh> about 25 to 30 hours or so from here :-)
May 05 11:22:53 <benh> involving 2 to 3 flights :-)
May 05 11:23:10 <Blafasel> =)
May 05 11:23:39 <Blafasel> 5 hours chilling or 3.5 during the night and with full speed ;)
May 05 11:24:13 <benh> hrm... I could do faster than 25 hours I suppose if I hijacked a concorde :-)
May 05 11:24:20 <benh> though it would have to refuel a couple of times !
May 05 11:24:25 <Blafasel> Hmm.. Scratch that. They are adding far too many speed limits these days
May 05 11:24:36 <benh> hehe
May 05 11:26:54 <Blafasel> benh: Better suggestion: Get yourself a Blackbird from the US ;)
May 05 11:27:14 <Blafasel> Same problem with fuel, but even faster
May 05 11:27:25 <benh> heh true :-)
May 05 11:27:28 <lcuk> hitch a lift on the next shuttle
May 05 11:27:35 <lcuk> hop out where required
May 05 11:27:44 <benh> and blow up half way through ? no thanks !
May 05 11:28:14 * lcuk thinks its an acceptable risk
May 05 11:28:37 <benh> I'd rather hitch a lift on a russian rocket with a soyouz :-)
May 05 11:28:50 <benh> those things seem to be good at keeping monkeys alive :-)
May 05 11:29:05 <lcuk> from what i heard the occupants almost ended up like pizza last time
May 05 11:29:11 <benh> but then, I don't have the kind of $ to do that or create a linux distro :-)
May 05 11:29:22 <benh> lcuk: it's all in the "almost" :-)
May 05 11:30:44 <lcuk> but this isnt the first time, arent they now reconsidering them and putting them through lots of tests to confirm just whats going wrong - its seemingly a common fault
May 05 11:31:17 <benh> heh possibly, but stats are still in favor of the russian sack of bolts
May 05 11:32:08 <johnx> plus, with even more tests it will be even safer. The safest time to fly (in space or on an airline) is probably right after a crash
May 05 11:32:28 <lcuk> i dunno, there is still something elegent about the shuttle.  for all its creaky old failings it is still more impressive as a rocket
May 05 11:32:46 <benh> yeah, it looks good on TV :-)
May 05 11:32:46 <johnx> ah, the elegance of the space bus
May 05 11:33:10 <benh> SW engineers know the danger inherent in complexity :-)
May 05 11:33:38 <lcuk> im just reading a niven book where a group of adventurers have been using old space junk to make their own space colony :)
May 05 11:33:56 <benh> lcuk: which one ? I wonder if I read that one
May 05 11:33:58 <johnx> The Suyouz is the epitomy of the "Unix way": Do one thing, do it well, be robust against catestrophic failure
May 05 11:34:13 <benh> johnx: so true :-)
May 05 11:34:40 <johnx> The shuttle has feature creep :)
May 05 11:34:53 <lcuk> descent of anansi http://www.amazon.com/Descent-Anansi-Steven-Barnes/dp/0812512928
May 05 11:35:00 <benh> johnx: it can only end in tears :-)
May 05 11:35:12 <benh> lcuk: thx
May 05 11:36:30 <lcuk> i dunno if its any good - i only started it a couple of days ago
May 05 11:36:51 <benh> lcuk: don't worry, I've read enough bad sci-fi to have a pretty low threshold :-)
May 05 11:37:01 <benh> lcuk: better than getting drunk on a plane :-)
May 05 11:37:10 <Blafasel> And cheaper!
May 05 11:37:23 <benh> Blafasel: nah, on intl, booze is usually free :-)
May 05 11:37:39 <Blafasel> You see, I have to fly more often..
May 05 11:37:41 <Blafasel> Damn.
May 05 11:37:55 <benh> heh
May 05 11:38:01 <lcuk> just for the booze?   buy a bottle and sit in a box and pretent
May 05 11:38:05 <lcuk> pretend
May 05 11:38:07 <benh> :-)
May 05 11:38:41 <lcuk> you might still crash, but somehow escaping out of your lounge by inflatable slide is still safer than a plane
May 05 11:38:59 <benh> hehe
May 05 11:39:25 <benh> qantas first class lounge in sydney rocks :-)
May 05 11:39:36 <Blafasel> Yeah, good point. For the price of an international flight I _might_ be able to drink enough to feel like flying anyway.
May 05 11:39:37 <benh> full high end restaurant free :-)
May 05 11:39:42 <benh> hehe
May 05 11:40:00 <benh> but then, you have to fly first class ... which isn't in my budget
May 05 11:40:09 <benh> or get lucky and be invited in by somebody who does :-)
May 05 11:40:24 <lcuk> and an added bonus, in your lounge you get to play with the controls and pretend to be the pilot!
May 05 11:40:49 <johnx> even if I had the money to blow on first class I'd still take one look at the ticket price and say "Nah, I'd rather buy a brand new laptop..."
May 05 11:41:14 <benh> hehe, point !
May 05 11:41:43 <johnx> I prefer driving when I can. (darn gas prices!)
May 05 11:41:59 <benh> johnx: driving from australia won't take you anywhere tho :-)
May 05 11:42:41 <Blafasel> Gas is free for me, gladly. I therefor even prefer driving to flights ;)
May 05 11:42:49 <johnx> yeah, like I said "When I can."
May 05 11:42:57 <johnx> Blafasel, how did you manage that?
May 05 11:43:12 <johnx> SO works for Exxon/Shell?
May 05 11:43:33 <Blafasel> My boss pays (which means "free for me"). ;-p
May 05 11:43:44 <johnx> ah, as long as you go where he wants :P
May 05 11:44:02 <johnx> still, it's a good deal.
May 05 11:44:23 <Blafasel> Nope, for every single mile. And I had to drive for the company twice so far. In the last 18 month..
May 05 11:44:31 <johnx> O_o
May 05 11:44:48 <johnx> ok, what's the catch?
May 05 11:45:21 <Blafasel> Miles/kilometer are limited. Leasing contract allows 30.000km/year. Which limits the fuel of course ;)
May 05 11:45:25 <lcuk> thats not a catch, thats a perk :)
May 05 11:45:48 <johnx> 30,000km/year isn't bad
May 05 11:45:53 * lcuk goes to his mums
May 05 11:45:55 <lcuk> back later
May 05 11:45:58 <johnx> even when I drove the most it was still only about that much
May 05 11:46:13 <johnx> have fun, lcuk
May 05 11:46:17 <Blafasel> lcuk: "Perk": Actually you have to pay taxes for stuff like that, yes.
May 05 11:51:03 <andre___> where is the maemo Internet search (mis) applet code located to check out?
May 05 11:54:44 <X-Fade_> andre___: Isn't it part of the hildon desktop?
May 05 11:56:39 <andre___> hmm, should take a closer look. thanks
May 05 11:57:34 <hrw> diablo reappeared on maemo devels..
May 05 11:57:38 <hrw> ml
May 05 11:57:51 <X-Fade_> hrw: Yeah, that is my post ;)
May 05 11:57:57 <hrw> I wonder will it be so fucked like chinook is or more
May 05 11:58:16 <X-Fade_> I want developer's input on that.
May 05 11:58:26 <hrw> I want *docs*
May 05 11:58:43 <X-Fade_> hrw: Ask dave ;)
May 05 11:58:53 <hrw> and ability to edit system more then crapook allows
May 05 11:59:43 <hrw> X-Fade_: I will not be suprised if diablo will get 80% of nokia apps closed this time
May 05 12:00:15 <hrw> 'we closed it just because we can etc'
May 05 12:00:27 <hrw> s/ etc'/' etc
May 05 12:01:16 <X-Fade_> hrw: I don't think Nokia will do that. The slowly start to learn.
May 05 12:01:31 <X-Fade_> They certainly won't go to 'more closed'.
May 05 12:02:08 <hrw> in maemo 'less closed' does not mean 'less fscked up'
May 05 12:02:16 <hrw> i18n is fscked deeply
May 05 12:02:45 <hrw> 'we care about few countries - rest have to fuck up'
May 05 12:03:26 <hrw> sorry for language but I have this feeling each time when I think about maemo and i18n
May 05 12:03:41 <solmumaha> hrw: bad day?
May 05 12:03:45 <hrw> solmumaha: not at all
May 05 12:04:05 * RST38h shares i18n philosophy
May 05 12:07:25 <hrw> solmumaha: to buy n810 I had to order it in other part of europe. to have proper name names I had to build locale pack. to have national chars on keyboard I had to learn how to make x11 keymaps. then had to find out how to get my keymap working -- had to use 3rd party app just to be able to set own keymap and it is not seen in few places anyway
May 05 12:07:55 <pyhimys> Has anyone got a good idea how to disable dictionary when eg. entering password on terminal to ssh?
May 05 12:08:07 <hrw> solmumaha: and nOKIA has official stores here in Poland
May 05 12:08:37 <RST38h> hrw: Just learn English already
May 05 12:08:50 <hrw> RST38h: who told that I do not know it?
May 05 12:09:01 <hrw> RST38h: but English lack ±æê³ñó궼¿ chars still
May 05 12:09:30 <RST38h> hrw: hey, English lacks pretty much *all* the cyrillic chars
May 05 12:09:37 <hrw> not to mention that officially there is no way to enter | {} and few more chars
May 05 12:09:44 <RST38h> Do you see me complaining though? :)
May 05 12:09:49 <hrw> RST38h: but n810 has russian keymap
May 05 12:10:11 <RST38h> Yes, and there is even a physical russian keyboard, but I could not buy it here either - had to order from US
May 05 12:10:47 <RST38h> Who gives a damn though, as long as it can display cyrillic UTF-8...
May 05 12:10:49 <hrw> RST38h: at least less problem less - keymaps
May 05 12:12:38 <RST38h> hrw: I get to use it at most once a week or so
May 05 12:12:46 <RST38h> Most stuff is in English anyway
May 05 12:13:05 <hrw> I also would like to run !maemo on n810 without having to use binaries to have working device (I can accept binary kernel module for wifi).
May 05 12:13:41 <RST38h> hrw: What do you mean?
May 05 12:14:12 <hrw> RST38h: bt, wpa, battery
May 05 12:14:17 <johnx> he's probably referring to the proprietary parts of maemo, the battery charging stuff, the dsme power saving stuff, the sound situation, etc
May 05 12:14:23 <RST38h> ah
May 05 12:14:34 <keesj> hrw: did you follow the last disc on maemo-dev ?
May 05 12:14:38 <hrw> known also as 'curse of maemo'
May 05 12:14:40 <RST38h> Well, no way to avoid that, with all the NDAs
May 05 12:14:50 <hrw> keesj: have to read whole - just looked at few
May 05 12:14:57 <RST38h> Even OMAP2 has not publicly available datasheets
May 05 12:15:05 <keesj> I have the feeling that we stand a chance
May 05 12:15:38 <hrw> keesj: if someone will manage to get all small projects more united
May 05 12:15:47 <keesj> the wifi talk is going to right way
May 05 12:16:07 <hrw> umac.ko can be adapted to other kernels with some tricks
May 05 12:16:13 <keesj> idem there seams to be enough animo for this
May 05 12:17:24 <hrw> sharp zaurus had better OS support then nokia tablets...
May 05 12:18:08 <keesj> hrw: you never look on the bright side. try it sometimes it is fun
May 05 12:18:36 <hrw> keesj: I have covered window to not get sun on screen ;)
May 05 12:19:23 <keesj> lol
May 05 12:20:12 <keesj> I am in the sun and wear 3d cyber sun glasses, with x-ray vision
May 05 12:22:18 <hrw> ~curse gtk for gdouble
May 05 12:22:19 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, gtk for gdouble !
May 05 12:24:18 <hrw> gtk_vscale_new_with_range() takes 3s
May 05 12:27:40 <hrw> ~hail serial jigs
May 05 12:27:41 * infobot bows down to serial jigs and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"
May 05 12:27:45 <hrw> too bad that I lack one for nokias
May 05 12:32:29 <RST38h> You don't stand a chance against TI
May 05 12:33:14 <RST38h> If Nokia tells TI to open up programming interfaces or fuck off, it stands some chance, but Nokia is not going to do it
May 05 12:33:49 <johnx> Apparently from the thread on maemo-dev, Nokia *did* ask for more open info for the 770
May 05 12:33:50 <glass> it's only a problem for nokia with IT
May 05 12:34:06 <glass> on phone side, they might view it as an advantage
May 05 12:34:08 <glass> for now
May 05 12:34:28 <ralann> http://img.skitch.com/20080505-ty13hf482q76rui2ra4tmdjxbk.jpg
May 05 12:34:57 <johnx> cute pic. :) how's the emulation speed?
May 05 12:35:07 <ralann> perty decent
May 05 12:35:41 <MangoFusion> ralann: basilisk?
May 05 12:35:43 <ralann> unfortunatly i cant run marathon because of it wanting to see 256 colors :/
May 05 12:35:46 <ralann> ya
May 05 12:36:15 <MangoFusion> personally i prefer a real mac. but cool nonetheless ;)
May 05 12:36:24 <MangoFusion> would be neat if there was an acorn emulator
May 05 12:36:25 <ralann> i have several of those
May 05 12:36:36 <ralann> real macs that is
May 05 12:37:57 <hrw> I used macos only on emuls
May 05 12:38:11 <hrw> but shapeshifter was fast
May 05 12:38:50 <RST38h> glass: There is no advantage in this
May 05 12:39:23 <RST38h> The only company that may see it as advantage is TI but I guess that even for them it is more like a coverup for their own bugs
May 05 12:39:54 <MangoFusion> ralann: so how usable is mac os on an IT?
May 05 12:40:16 <ralann> it is more usable than on an old mac imo
May 05 12:40:18 <johnx> probably more like dealing with their own NDAs and as someone from Nokia said, they'd also worry about people monkeying around with battery charging and blowing up their phones/tablets
May 05 12:41:09 <johnx> TI probably took one look at the immediate cost/benefit ratio and said "no thanks"
May 05 12:41:24 <ralann> only problem can be double clicking
May 05 12:41:30 <johnx> they seem to be making noises about being more open with the omap3 but only time will tell...
May 05 12:42:20 <keesj> johnx: I have seen pretty nice emails on the omap kernel mailing list
May 05 12:42:43 <johnx> thanks, I'll do some reading :)
May 05 12:42:53 <ralann> ya just have to fix that in control panel
May 05 12:46:45 <johnx> keesj, ok, what I'm reading looks great so far. :D
May 05 12:51:51 <Blafasel> What's great? Future related (OMAP3)? Or interesting for the current devices as well?
May 05 12:52:20 <johnx> future related. TI actually making their dspbridge code available
May 05 12:52:30 <johnx> also it looks like they have an open source bootloader available too
May 05 12:53:05 <kulve> what bootloader?
May 05 12:53:09 <johnx> u-boot
May 05 12:53:28 <kulve> I think that has been available for very long time. But Nokia just doesn't use it
May 05 12:53:45 <johnx> ah, well nevermind then
May 05 12:54:00 <johnx> hmm...and x-load
May 05 12:58:13 <RST38h> johnx: The "blow your battery" argument is fake.
May 05 12:59:30 <johnx> all it matters is that the legal dept. thinks it's real :/
May 05 12:59:42 <RST38h> You have to get *really* deep into hardware and be very specific about your actions
May 05 13:00:02 <jaska> thatd make a nice cellphone worm
May 05 13:01:14 <RST38h> will probably just end up with an exception in Symbian
May 05 13:01:16 <johnx> RST38h, definitely, but when the PHB does his "return on investment" analysis on opening the code, things like that pop into his/her mind...
May 05 13:01:45 <RST38h> johnx: There is no investment in opening programming interfaces and there is no deifnite return too
May 05 13:02:09 <RST38h> So, normally, this should be a minor engineering task + a cursory review from the legal dep
May 05 13:02:37 <RST38h> Guys who should be responsible for this are Developer Relations Dep
May 05 13:02:50 <RST38h> At least this is how it works in Intel
May 05 13:03:22 <johnx> but intel is selling hardware, and they *rely* on people writing software to run on their hardware
May 05 13:03:50 <johnx> I think there is a difference in perspective and attitude in terms of Intel vs Nokia
May 05 13:03:58 <RST38h> TI is also selling hardware
May 05 13:04:19 <johnx> right, and they're starting to open up
May 05 13:04:21 <RST38h> And OMAP specs belong to TI not Nokia. Nokia is pretty much like Apple or IBM
May 05 13:04:25 <johnx> they're slowly coming around
May 05 13:05:02 <RST38h> It is ridiculous that things like VR instruction set are closed
May 05 13:05:32 <johnx> that doesn't bother me nearly as much as ridiculous simple things like the browser UI being closed
May 05 13:10:47 <hrw> johnx: or hildon components
May 05 13:11:00 <johnx> hrw, agreed.
May 05 13:11:41 <hrw> hm. linux-omap git moved to same modem as maemo.org use ;(
May 05 13:12:21 <johnx> someone should tell the new intern to stop playing tetris on the n800 that's hosting maemo.org :P
May 05 13:12:46 <johnx> (though maemo.org seems ok here)
May 05 13:13:10 <solmumaha> johnx: i heard it's 770 with 2008he
May 05 13:13:10 <trickie_> hrw: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/tmlind/linux-omap-2.6.git;a=summary
May 05 13:13:12 <trickie_> a mirror
May 05 13:13:18 <trickie_> not always directly up to date
May 05 13:13:36 <hrw> trickie_: thhx
May 05 13:13:51 <kulve> http://git2.kernel.org/
May 05 13:17:32 <hrw> n810 is charging now
May 05 13:17:47 <hrw> will try linux-omap head later
May 05 13:20:04 <trickie_> hrw: http://www.muru.com/linux/n8x0/
May 05 13:20:15 <trickie_> you will need to at least change the machine id
May 05 13:22:03 <trickie_> i have to booting into mamona on mmc1
May 05 13:22:13 <trickie_> but my usbnet is stuffed, and it all breaks after that :)
May 05 13:23:18 <hrw> trickie_: already fetched that patchset
May 05 13:23:26 <johnx> trickie_, that's some great info. thanks!
May 05 13:23:38 <trickie_> np, wasn't me :)
May 05 13:23:56 <johnx> ah, was it someone here on #maemo?
May 05 13:24:04 <trickie_> no
May 05 13:24:11 <trickie_> tony is the linux-omap maintainer
May 05 13:24:15 <trickie_> i think
May 05 13:27:37 <johnx> ah, interesting
May 05 13:34:37 <hrw> ~curse gtk_vscale_new_with_range()
May 05 13:34:38 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, gtk_vscale_new_with_range() !
May 05 13:35:09 <hrw> why it takes 3s to create slider..
May 05 13:35:34 <|Nazgul|> hello
May 05 13:38:37 <|Nazgul|> .
May 05 13:38:43 <johnx> hi
May 05 13:45:12 <RST38h> hrw: must be doing it via DBus ;)
May 05 14:36:02 <lcuk> i am working on a way to allow user to switch between ondemand and performance in cpufreq.  i am considering adding the required commands to the sudoers file as part of installation.  would i be best adding a small shell script to the sudoers, or just the 2 echo lines required?
May 05 14:37:01 <lcuk> version 1:   user ALL = NOPASSWD: /path/to/changecpu.sh
May 05 14:37:23 <qwerty12> Maybe the shell script? Because then, if you need to make any changes to the echo line, it would be easier editing the script.
May 05 14:37:25 <lcuk> version 2:   user ALL = NOPASSWD: echo performance >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
May 05 14:37:40 <lcuk> but the same can be said for if anyone ELSE changes the script
May 05 14:38:34 <qwerty12> True. I guess they both work the same, listen to what your heart tells you :p
May 05 14:38:39 <lcuk> if i mark a whole userspace script as allowed doesnt that mean it can be replaced and run for the wrong purpose
May 05 14:38:39 <trickie_> id go version 2
May 05 14:38:51 <trickie_> lcuk: yep
May 05 14:39:07 <lcuk> right, ill put the specific 2 lines i require then - its much cleaner :)
May 05 14:39:16 <qwerty12> Good points. I change my mind to v2 :p
May 05 14:39:53 <lcuk> i could technically put my whole program in there and just run that, but for similar reasons i dont want to do that
May 05 14:40:16 <Navi> woo
May 05 14:42:45 <lcuk> as a third option, if i just added the cpufreq itself: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor     could i then write it as i need
May 05 14:43:12 <lcuk> that way i wouldnt even need a script nor the echo
May 05 14:43:26 <Navi> Plugin support in webkitgtk
May 05 14:43:29 <Navi> :o
May 05 14:44:27 <Navi> Now everyone can watch their youtubes :P
May 05 14:49:43 <monkeywraith> anybody around?
May 05 14:50:10 * johnx isn't around
May 05 14:51:07 <johnx> what's the question?
May 05 14:51:20 <monkeywraith> i can get gjiten (japanese dictionary) working on os2007 or gcjk (chinese / japanese / korean input support) working on os2008, but not both together :(
May 05 14:51:28 <monkeywraith> any ideas?
May 05 14:52:09 <johnx> have you checked itt for anyone else who tried to get gjiten working on os2008?
May 05 14:52:23 <johnx> also, have you looked at the dictionaries available for sdictviewer?
May 05 14:53:16 <monkeywraith> in os2007 i can install the input support, but can not get the im switch to show up, in os2008 it claims the os2008 version of gjiten is not a compatible install file
May 05 14:53:20 <qwerty12> gjiten can be installed on os2008, just takes a while. johnx is right, check itt for the solution.
May 05 14:53:30 <monkeywraith> i am not familiar with itt or sdictviewer
May 05 14:53:45 <johnx> ~itt
May 05 14:53:45 <monkeywraith> where is itt?
May 05 14:53:51 <johnx> internettablettalk.com/forums
May 05 14:54:02 <qwerty12> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17258&highlight=gjiten
May 05 14:54:05 <monkeywraith> oh, thank you :)
May 05 14:54:59 <johnx> infobot, itt is the forums on internettablettalk.com ( http://internettablettalk.com/forums )
May 05 14:54:59 <infobot> johnx: okay
May 05 14:55:01 <monkeywraith> ahhh, thank you both very much, looks like that should do it
May 05 14:55:48 <johnx> lots of good stuff on itt, but the search there isn't so great
May 05 14:55:52 <lcuk> via ssh how do i run a program as the regular user - ie not root
May 05 14:56:09 <johnx> ssh user@my-tablet
May 05 14:56:15 <lcuk> is the username user
May 05 14:56:19 <johnx> yes :)
May 05 14:56:24 <lcuk> ahhh right :) thx
May 05 14:56:39 <johnx> the command of the day is: whoami
May 05 14:56:48 <hrw> does someone use 2.6.25-omap1 on n800/n810 or at least have it ready to boot?
May 05 14:57:19 <johnx> Astorm was trying it a couple days ago I think
May 05 14:57:26 <trickie_> hrw: yep im running it on my n800
May 05 14:57:35 <lcuk> i am SPARTA!
May 05 14:57:36 <trickie_> hrw: well master not the tag
May 05 14:57:43 <hrw> trickie_: cool
May 05 14:58:00 <trickie_> hrw: some good fixes went in after the tag
May 05 14:58:02 <hrw> trickie_: I will give you kernel module - will you report me back results?
May 05 14:58:31 <trickie_> hrw: im at work ATM, and i stuffed my usbnet so i don't have a console
May 05 14:58:41 <trickie_> but when ifx it then yeah for sure!
May 05 14:58:50 <trickie_> s/ifx/fix/
May 05 14:58:51 <infobot> trickie_ meant: but when fix it then yeah for sure!
May 05 14:59:13 <hrw> trickie_: http://blog.haerwu.biz/download/maemo/2.6.25/
May 05 14:59:24 <hrw> trickie_: you probably notice familiar names there ;D
May 05 14:59:43 <trickie_> he he
May 05 14:59:48 <qwerty12> ooh wifi
May 05 14:59:51 <qwerty12> I think
May 05 15:00:02 <hrw> no warranty that it will work of course
May 05 15:00:10 <johnx> very interesting :)
May 05 15:00:10 <trickie_> hrw: ill let you know if get success!
May 05 15:00:14 <trickie_> np
May 05 15:01:47 <monkeywraith> i have to say, after 10+ flashes in the last few hours, i love how quick and easy it is to flash this thing XD
May 05 15:03:11 <Navi> Woo
May 05 15:03:34 * qwerty12 is having fun with sound servers on my desktop
May 05 15:04:25 <johnx> Navi, playing with webkitgtk?
May 05 15:04:47 <Navi> Yes
May 05 15:05:09 <johnx> working well for you?
May 05 15:05:25 <Navi> I try it every so often to see how it's progressing
May 05 15:05:38 <Navi> on the desktop, it's nice and fast
May 05 15:06:02 <Navi> plugin support is a recent thing
May 05 15:07:20 <Navi> At start up, midori uses 61MB or so
May 05 15:07:25 <Navi> with google loaded
May 05 15:08:00 <johnx> it seems to actually use less on my zaurus...
May 05 15:08:02 <RST38h> urgh
May 05 15:08:04 <Navi> Compared to the latest firefox beta, which uses double that
May 05 15:08:11 <trickie_> later
May 05 15:08:19 <RST38h> Mobile firefox uses 120MB at startup?
May 05 15:08:23 <RST38h> How come?
May 05 15:08:31 <Navi> I'm not talkings about mobile :/
May 05 15:08:51 <RST38h> Even the desktop version (2.x) starts at something like 30MB
May 05 15:08:54 <Navi> Mobile firefox has a lot of the fat trimmed away
May 05 15:09:12 <Navi> I haven't tried it to make fun of it yet, though.
May 05 15:09:13 <hrw> monkeywraith: quick and easy?
May 05 15:09:27 <hrw> monkeywraith: try to get Vernier LabQuest into your hands
May 05 15:09:53 <hrw> monkeywraith: you put sd card or usb stick with firmware files, reboot with one key pressed and it is upgrading
May 05 15:10:08 <hrw> monkeywraith: no other machines needed during flashing
May 05 15:10:11 <Navi> johnx, still no cookies, though.
May 05 15:10:25 <Navi> That's on the top of my list for things that I want
May 05 15:10:36 <Navi> flash support was pretty low
May 05 15:10:39 <johnx> have you tried the newer epiphany-webkit?
May 05 15:10:44 <Navi> Nope
May 05 15:11:00 <Navi> I was meaning to, but never got around to it
May 05 15:11:41 <Navi> Though, midori supports user stylesheets now
May 05 15:11:59 <Navi> That was pretty high on my "wants" list
May 05 15:12:43 <johnx> I tried to use it as a main browser on my desktop for a while, but some things like "open in a new tab" aren't quite working
May 05 15:12:53 <Navi> heh
May 05 15:13:10 <Navi> midori is more complete with webkitgtk than midori, it sounds :P
May 05 15:13:33 <Navi> The devs work pretty hard to support features from webkitgtk as soon as they pop out
May 05 15:13:42 <Navi> since webkitgtk itself is lacking
May 05 15:13:58 <johnx> the epiphany guys are focusing on webkitgtk going forward
May 05 15:14:05 <Navi> mhm
May 05 15:14:08 <johnx> so things should improve rapidly
May 05 15:26:20 <Navi>  Oh!
May 05 15:26:59 <Navi> I remember exactly why I don't use webkit full time
May 05 15:27:18 <Navi> No support to download files >_>
May 05 15:27:46 <johnx> is that really a webkit feature? I thought for sure that would be a browser feature...
May 05 15:42:14 <Navi> johnx, it's a bit of both
May 05 15:42:59 <Navi> webkitgtk just needs a file handler
May 05 15:43:18 <Navi> which it lacks
May 05 15:43:30 <johnx> ah
May 05 15:49:33 <johnx> Are you sure cookies aren't working?
May 05 15:52:34 <johnx> nevermind, I guess not :/
May 05 16:02:18 <Navi> :P
May 05 16:02:29 <Navi> It supports temporary sessions
May 05 16:02:31 <Navi> but no cookies
May 05 16:02:42 <johnx> yeah, just found that out
May 05 16:03:04 <Navi> mmk
May 05 16:03:45 <johnx> <whine>there's so much nice hardware that comes with winmo attached :/ </whine>
May 05 16:04:11 <Navi> heh
May 05 16:04:18 <Navi> yeah
May 05 16:07:37 <johnx> jeez, nevermind. I was looking at some pics of the htc advantage but it's $1350
May 05 16:08:13 <glass> hehe
May 05 16:08:22 <glass> it's a nice piece of hw imho
May 05 16:08:33 <glass> but with winmo..
May 05 16:08:35 <Navi> XD
May 05 16:08:38 <Navi> Yeh...
May 05 16:08:45 <Navi> Way to expensive for a phone
May 05 16:08:50 <Navi> s/o/oo/
May 05 16:08:50 <infobot> Navi meant: Way too expensive for a phone
May 05 16:08:54 <glass> way too nonphone to use as phone
May 05 16:08:58 <johnx> oh yeah, it looks nice, but that's the price of an n810 wimax and a thinkpad to go with it
May 05 16:09:12 <glass> yeah..
May 05 16:09:14 <johnx> plus, nice hardware != nice experience
May 05 16:09:20 <johnx> as I have learned repeatedly...
May 05 16:09:29 <glass> hehe
May 05 16:09:45 <glass> the kb attachment was nicely done
May 05 16:10:57 <Navi> Reminds me, if you buy your PCs as apposed to building them, buy from psystar
May 05 16:11:14 <johnx> ahahaha
May 05 16:11:15 <johnx> why?
May 05 16:11:21 <Navi> http://psystar.com/open_and_open_pro.html
May 05 16:11:26 <johnx> I mean I've heard of psystar, but why bother?
May 05 16:11:32 <Navi> No windows license forced on you :P
May 05 16:11:38 <Navi> s'all
May 05 16:11:45 <johnx> meh
May 05 16:11:51 <Navi> Meh you!
May 05 16:11:54 <johnx> there's like a million other companies that offer that
May 05 16:11:58 <johnx> dell being one of them
May 05 16:12:07 <Navi> Dell is meh
May 05 16:12:10 <Navi> Lol ^_^
May 05 16:12:11 <glass> how are psystar different than ordering just all parts and assembly from any of the million shops that do that sort of thing?
May 05 16:12:34 <glass> practically every parts store offers assembly too
May 05 16:12:42 <johnx> dell even sells laptops with parts selected to work nice with linux with ubuntu all setup and waiting for you
May 05 16:12:52 <Navi> johnx, yeah, I know.
May 05 16:12:59 <johnx> so, why push psystar?
May 05 16:13:13 <Navi> 'cuz they're funny :P
May 05 16:13:24 <johnx> aaah, I see
May 05 16:13:24 <Navi> Get OS X preinstalled
May 05 16:13:41 <johnx> woo! it's all the things that annoy me in OSX without the software updates working right!
May 05 16:13:44 <johnx> what a deal!
May 05 16:14:01 <Navi> XD
May 05 16:14:10 <Navi> It is indeed
May 05 16:14:39 <johnx> I build my desktops anyways, so it's all a moot point
May 05 16:15:14 <johnx> and when I eventually get a new laptop it will probably end up being a macbook running osx or a thinkpad running debian or ubuntu
May 05 16:15:20 <Navi> Heh
May 05 16:15:34 * Navi has only owned one laptop in his life
May 05 16:15:47 <johnx> I've technically owned two
May 05 16:15:53 <Navi> Compaq Contura 420c
May 05 16:16:02 <johnx> both were given to me
May 05 16:16:05 <johnx> both were DOA
May 05 16:16:11 <johnx> one I managed to resurrect and use
May 05 16:16:19 <elb> I've owned numerous -- and of them all, the iBook was the best, hands down
May 05 16:16:38 <johnx> I got to use a macbook for work at my last job and I really liked that machine
May 05 16:17:09 <Navi> I loved the 350MB HDD in my Contura
May 05 16:17:23 <Navi> and the 8MB of ram was great for running slackware at the time
May 05 16:17:37 <Navi> Plus, it had an optical trackball
May 05 16:18:12 <glass> i liked the laptops with trackballs on right bottom side of screen
May 05 16:18:52 <Navi> I need a real laptop, but the N800 really killed my motivation in getting one
May 05 16:19:07 <johnx> I have one of thse sitting on my floor: http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Satellite-5205-S703-2-0-GHz-Pentium/dp/B00006LS94
May 05 16:19:52 <Navi> Heh
May 05 16:19:55 <Navi> weird hinge
May 05 16:19:55 <johnx> Navi, agreed. Between my zaurus and N800 w/ usb keyboard and a general lack of $1000 burning a hole in my pocket, I don't see getting a new laptop soon
May 05 16:20:11 <Navi> Contura was 2500 back in '95 >_>
May 05 16:20:12 <johnx> yeah, stupid hinge with a huge screen
May 05 16:20:17 <johnx> guess what's broken on it?
May 05 16:20:22 <Navi> Both?
May 05 16:20:31 <johnx> nah, screen works
May 05 16:20:34 <Navi> k
May 05 16:20:36 <johnx> hinge is busted
May 05 16:20:41 <johnx> CPU overheats
May 05 16:20:45 <Navi> Same on my contura
May 05 16:20:51 <Navi> not the overheating part, the broken hinge part
May 05 16:20:59 <glass> hinges are busted on my acer too
May 05 16:21:01 <johnx> it gets <30min on its *9* cell battery
May 05 16:21:02 <glass> that i'm writing from now
May 05 16:21:11 <glass> some glue and it stays together well enough
May 05 16:21:14 <Navi> XD
May 05 16:21:21 <Navi> stupid laptop hinges
May 05 16:21:30 <Navi> need to make 'em out of something other than cheap plastic
May 05 16:21:35 <glass> it's actually the plastic on the screen that the hinge attaches on these acers
May 05 16:21:42 <johnx> ah, I mean the actual metal hinge part
May 05 16:21:53 <glass> the metal parts are as good as new
May 05 16:22:08 <johnx> both of the actual internal metal hinges on mine broke
May 05 16:22:11 <glass> but the plastic on the back of the screen is too thin
May 05 16:22:33 <johnx> the screen is two heavy and the hinge holds it at a weird angle which increases the amount of force it has to put up with
May 05 16:22:41 <johnx> s/two/too
May 05 16:22:59 <johnx> also: 8 (*&$%$ing pounds!
May 05 16:23:24 <johnx> seriously! I don't even think that includes the battery
May 05 16:23:36 <Navi> heh
May 05 16:24:19 <Navi> That's heavier than the giant that is this contura...
May 05 16:24:39 <Navi> 6lb :/
May 05 16:25:03 <johnx> I haven't even powered the thing on in weeks
May 05 16:25:13 <Navi> >_>
May 05 16:25:20 <Navi> What a waste
May 05 16:25:24 <Navi> You should give it to me.
May 05 16:25:38 <johnx> ok, come by and pick it up in exchange for an n800 stylus
May 05 16:25:44 <Navi> kk
May 05 16:26:07 <Navi> I really need to visit my uncle
May 05 16:26:32 <Navi> Make a mold and start selling N800 stylus replacements
May 05 16:26:49 <johnx> if it wasn't for the overheating->thermal throttling I might use it sometimes
May 05 16:27:30 <johnx> but that when combined with everything else makes it pretty useless as a portable machine *or* a compile farm *or* a server
May 05 16:27:41 <Navi> heh
May 05 16:28:04 <johnx> I'm open to ideas. :) What do you think? boat anchor? door stop?
May 05 16:31:23 <Blafasel> Give it as a present to the Nokia guys.
May 05 16:31:35 <johnx> a new server to host maemo.org?
May 05 16:31:37 <Blafasel> "See, I thought you like useless" ;)
May 05 17:04:43 <lopz> hi
May 05 17:53:46 <pupnik> !linuxtag-news
May 05 18:02:57 <lcuk> pupnik, whats not linuxtag-news
May 05 18:06:44 <johnx> I think he was giving a command to the channel :)
May 05 18:07:04 <johnx> or rather an apparently non-existant bot
May 05 19:11:40 <pupnik810> who dere?
May 05 19:41:40 * konttori here
May 05 19:46:42 <keesj> yearrrrrrrrr
May 05 19:46:59 <keesj> square
May 05 20:32:54 <hrw> re
May 05 20:33:12 * RST38h upgraded osso-xterm
May 05 20:33:12 <hrw> just posted 2 mails to 'lwn' thread on maemo-devs
May 05 20:33:24 <RST38h> too bad that the version with the sidebar was too buggy =(
May 05 20:33:27 <hrw> I wonder what will reply be
May 05 20:35:59 <RST38h> pupnik: do you by any chance know if wesnoth installs into / or does it make use of mmc?
May 05 20:40:52 <hrw> no one built debfoster/deborphan for maemo?
May 05 20:47:29 <hrw> hmm.. looking at 'quality' of maemo packages it is probably good to not use such apps
May 05 21:12:27 <GNUton> hi
May 05 21:51:40 <evaryont_> How do I remove the bottom SD card from my nokia n800? A quick scan of the user guide didn't revail anything. I tried pressing the card in further so maybe a spring would push it out, but that didn't work :/
May 05 21:57:51 <nomis> evaryont_: there is no clicking mechanism. Just lift it up a bit and pull it out
May 05 21:58:31 <cLin> no springs
May 05 21:58:57 <cLin> my card has a little dip so i put my fingernail there and pull it out
May 05 22:02:19 <zap> Hello guys! I got today this wonderful n810 and I like it a lot, but what makes me worry is that I couldn't get a GPS fix for all the day. Is this a known problem, or its just a defective exemplar?
May 05 22:02:34 <hrw> zap: normal
May 05 22:02:54 <zap> is it supposed to 'work' like this?
May 05 22:03:02 <tank-man> takes like up to 5min to get a signal
May 05 22:03:52 <term-sig> it's depence, my get ready after 5-10 seconds when i`m outside but inside any buildings it takes ages to catch signal..
May 05 22:03:53 <hrw> zap: gps in n810 was made for phones where it can get additional data from gsm network - 'a' in agps
May 05 22:04:09 <zap> oooh
May 05 22:04:17 <zap> so I have to connect it to a phone?
May 05 22:04:38 <hrw> no
May 05 22:04:42 <jldiaz> nonw and hated problem
May 05 22:04:43 <jldiaz> benh/window refresh
May 05 22:05:00 <benh> ?
May 05 22:05:08 <benh> ah yes, I have this problem too
May 05 22:05:11 <benh> pretty annoying
May 05 22:05:20 <benh> once it's locked, it stays locked fine tho, but it's a pain
May 05 22:05:42 <zap> hrw: how its supposed to get additional data from GSM then?
May 05 22:05:49 <pupnik> RST38h: i think it still installs to / - not sure
May 05 22:06:27 <pupnik> ar x wesnoth*.deb or dpkg --contents we*.deb
May 05 22:06:48 <pupnik> or ar t rather
May 05 22:07:15 <hrw> zap: it is chip for phones rather but got installed in non-phone
May 05 22:07:38 <hrw> zap: you just have to live wit fact that n810 gps is crap
May 05 22:07:47 <term-sig> what chip it's n95?
May 05 22:07:59 <hrw> benh: once it is locked it does not warrant that it will keep it
May 05 22:08:16 <benh> hrw: it tends to from my experience
May 05 22:08:34 <benh> hrw: in fact, I lost it through the sydney M5 tunnel and it picked it back up quickly when out
May 05 22:08:59 <hrw> benh: last friday I had 250km trip. n810 self-rebooted few times during that. when it got fix it keeped it for some time and then lost for 40-50km to get it back later (if at all)
May 05 22:09:20 <benh> weird
May 05 22:10:44 <hrw> for me n810 as gps device is unreliable too much
May 05 22:10:56 <hrw> not to mention lack of usable navigation software
May 05 22:12:11 <jldiaz> yes, the gps is the most dissapointing feature of the n810
May 05 22:12:50 <hrw> gps, os2008, hw keyboard
May 05 22:13:02 <hrw> 3 most dissapointing features of n810
May 05 22:13:36 <evaryont_> where are the folders for Documents, Images, Games, etc?
May 05 22:13:41 <jldiaz> I find the keyboard pretty useable
May 05 22:14:06 <hrw> evaryont_: /home/user/.myDocs/ iirc
May 05 22:14:24 <jldiaz> I mean, for typing while standing or holding the tablet, wich is its intended use
May 05 22:14:29 <hrw> jldiaz: rshift==lshift
May 05 22:15:01 <jldiaz> for typing on a table, of course, an usb or bluetooth kb is preferred
May 05 22:15:26 <zap> I too find the keyboard on my old Zaurus SL-C3100 a lot better
May 05 22:15:28 <jldiaz> yes, hrw, but this has little impacg
May 05 22:15:31 <jldiaz> impact
May 05 22:15:43 <jldiaz> more annoying is the lack of a alt key
May 05 22:15:52 <hrw> zap: I prefer c7x0 keyboards over sl-cxx00 one
May 05 22:16:14 <hrw> jldiaz: I use Chr for extra keymapping
May 05 22:16:22 <evaryont_> hm, how do I find the device name? I think it's something along NOKIA-N800-FKJ or whatever
May 05 22:16:25 <jldiaz> I'm typing now from the n810
May 05 22:16:50 <evaryont_> hrw: how is os2008 a bad thing? Better CPU speed is really nice....
May 05 22:17:18 <jldiaz> I know hrw, I hacked a lot the rx-44 file, but I do need chr as the altgr key
May 05 22:17:32 <pupnik> zap how was keyboard better?
May 05 22:17:53 <pupnik> more space between keys?
May 05 22:18:12 <hrw> evaryont: better cpu speed is not related to os2008
May 05 22:18:25 <hrw> evaryont: os2008 is closed system.
May 05 22:18:31 <evaryont> hrw: no? I've heard reports that it was...
May 05 22:18:36 <jldiaz> btw, anyone understands the difference btween iso-level3-shift and iso-level5-shift?
May 05 22:18:42 <evaryont> how is os2008 closed? :(
May 05 22:19:07 <hrw> evaryont: os2006/2007 had 330MHz limit in kernel. os2008 bumped it to 400MHz
May 05 22:19:11 <zap> pupnik: it was usable, I could type fast without training
May 05 22:19:21 <evaryont> oh. kernel limits, heh
May 05 22:19:23 <hrw> evaryont: how? try to run non-maemo system on tablet
May 05 22:19:29 <ds3> 0
May 05 22:19:37 <evaryont> hrw: why would I?
May 05 22:19:46 <hrw> evaryont: I want to do it
May 05 22:20:14 <evaryont> :/ what's the default root password?
May 05 22:20:20 <zap> what means 'has 400MHz limit' in the kernel?
May 05 22:20:32 <hrw> evaryont: read http://blog.haerwu.biz/tag/maemo/ posts as it is 00:20 and I do not want to talk again about why maemo is closed
May 05 22:20:45 <evaryont> heh, fine. thanks
May 05 22:21:14 <pupnik> it used to be 'rootme' but i forgot if that changed in OS2008
May 05 22:22:04 <pupnik> zap given the low-profile (slider) design constraint, they keyboard is about perfect for me.  i just remapped a tab and a |
May 05 22:23:12 <evaryont> pupnik: It's changed :/
May 05 22:23:49 <jldiaz> I put tab at Fn+Backspace, and life is much more easier now at command-line
May 05 22:24:29 <pupnik> try 12345 or 123456 - sorry i can't remember - google probly knows
May 05 22:25:18 <term-sig> 12345
May 05 22:25:19 <term-sig> ;]
May 05 22:25:35 <evaryont> lol I just changed it :P
May 05 22:25:46 <jldiaz> Is it possible to get rid of the status/autocompleion bar?
May 05 22:26:42 <jldiaz> it is specially unuseful for xter;, and wastes precious vertical space
May 05 22:26:53 <jldiaz> (xterm)
May 05 22:27:28 <evaryont> hm, Pictures, Images, Games, Documents, etc aren't in /home/user... :/
May 05 22:27:48 <elb> jldiaz: yeah, you can turn it off in the control panel
May 05 22:28:08 <jldiaz> really?? silly of me!
May 05 22:28:28 <evaryont> ah, found it!
May 05 22:28:29 <elb> I turned it off for that very reason
May 05 22:28:40 <jldiaz> I was thinking about some obscure config file tinkering...
May 05 22:28:48 <elb> osso-xterm is still a PITA, though, because it won't size to a proper 80x25 in any reasonable fashion :-P
May 05 22:29:17 <evaryont> hrw: fyi Documents, Pictures, etc are in /home/user/MyDocs/.{documents,images,sounds,videos,games}
May 05 22:29:29 <hrw> elb: since when 80x25 is proper? just because vt100/vt420 had it?
May 05 22:29:36 <hrw> elb: 80x24 is more proper iir
May 05 22:29:37 <hrw> c
May 05 22:29:46 <jldiaz> but I guess that is not possiblr to turn it on/off on a per-application basis
May 05 22:30:53 <pupnik> i think it is possible, but i haven't gotten it to work reliably
May 05 22:32:31 <jldiaz> ok, I found the option. It was a bit obscure imho
May 05 22:32:47 <pupnik> what did you find?
May 05 22:32:57 <elb> hrw: depends on whether you use a hardware status line
May 05 22:33:18 * pupnik used to have a real vt100 for fun
May 05 22:33:21 <jldiaz> because what you have to turn off is predictive typing, not "keyboard statusbar" or something alike
May 05 22:33:24 <elb> hrw: the majority of my terminals are 80x24; if I use a hardware status line (e.g., with screen) I use 80x25
May 05 22:33:54 <hrw> elb: I used hp2623a - it had 80x24 with not reusable hardware status line
May 05 22:33:57 <evaryont> what are some really good time wasters?
May 05 22:34:02 <elb> hrw: suck
May 05 22:34:37 <hrw> now I usually use 120x40 -> 200x60 x-terminals
May 05 22:34:37 <pupnik> pytube or canola for youtube.  games/emulators at http://pupnik.de/software
May 05 22:34:46 <pupnik> software.html
May 05 22:34:53 <jldiaz> Now, in order to get rid of xterm toolbar also, I need to think about a good mapping for PgUp and PgDown keys
May 05 22:35:04 <jldiaz> any suggestion?
May 05 22:35:12 <elb> I very seldom resize X terminals width-wise
May 05 22:35:27 <pupnik> maybe fn+dpad up/down would be mappable?
May 05 22:35:27 <jldiaz> is it possible to use for example Fn+Up?
May 05 22:35:42 <pupnik> havent tried
May 05 22:35:50 <elb> though sometimes I resize them vertically to 80x50 (which is within pixels of the height of two 80x24 terminals including window decorations on my display)
May 05 22:35:56 <jldiaz> I'll try that
May 05 22:36:35 <hrw> bye all
May 05 22:36:46 <lcuk> lots of linux terminal commands dont adapt to width most of the time so theres no point in trying for more
May 05 22:36:58 <hrw> lcuk: examples?
May 05 22:37:05 <lcuk> make
May 05 22:37:21 <hrw> lcuk: really?
May 05 22:37:24 <elb> most commands do
May 05 22:37:34 <hrw> lcuk: on my system 'make' output is full width
May 05 22:37:40 <lcuk> no matter how wide my terminal it gets wrapped around 79ish
May 05 22:38:08 <lcuk> other commands are more willing, but make isnt
May 05 22:38:20 <evaryont> pupnik: THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I love programming in Ruby, I was pretty downhearted that there isn't a ruby interpreter for the n800 but you're hosting it! THANK YOU!
May 05 22:38:44 <hrw> lcuk: interesting.. especially due to fact that make does not use any terminal library - it just prints text
May 05 22:38:56 <hrw> lcuk: 'cat' also wrap on 79?
May 05 22:39:38 <lcuk> no, some parts of make do, but whenever i get an error message its formatted to that max
May 05 22:39:47 <lcuk> ill break it and find an example
May 05 22:39:54 * hrw -> bed
May 05 22:39:55 <hrw> bye
May 05 22:40:12 <term-sig> guys any idea where i can get micro usb -> female cable in uk? adapter will be the best option because i dont like cables..
May 05 22:41:22 <lcuk> you have a micro->male - easier finding yourself a standard female-female dongle
May 05 22:41:52 <elb> you probably don't want to put an adapter directly in the port on the device, that's an awful lot of leverage on a port which isn't designed to take force
May 05 22:42:29 <term-sig> ok, then female-female dongle, amazon or something else?
May 05 22:42:38 <lcuk> n810<->standardchargingcable<->female2female<->usb_keyboard
May 05 22:43:11 <lcuk> i dunno, when i was playing i had a big computer PCI extension with a pair of plugs on.
May 05 22:43:25 <lcuk> i just connected them together
May 05 22:43:41 <benh> evaryont: ruby ? yuck
May 05 22:43:59 <benh> had a look at the interpreter source code the other day, tracking some distro bug, it's a hell hole
May 05 22:44:29 <benh> a language designed by somebody who doesn't understand synchronization and locking... I wouldn't touch it with a 10 feet pole
May 05 22:45:11 <pupnik> evaryont: i'm just mirroring some packages.  check out 'dosbox' and 'rubybox' to see a nicely written ruby frontend using the gtk/hildon bindings
May 05 22:45:54 <elb> benh: or maybe by someone who understands that concurrency is best avoided ;-)
May 05 22:45:57 <pupnik> solmumaha wrote it.  it can autodownload a bunch of free/shareware games, with config files
May 05 22:46:19 <benh> elb: then he should have completely avoided it in his implementation :-)
May 05 22:46:45 <benh> iirc, constructs like lock++ won't do good when you use a timer or a signal handler
May 05 22:47:02 <benh> I don't remember the details of the warts I found in there (in addition to the code being just plain fugly)
May 05 22:47:15 <elb> benh: the original interpreter did
May 05 22:47:37 <elb> then support for an in-process interpreter-provided threading model was introduced
May 05 22:47:41 <benh> elb: now as to avoiding concurrency, well, you may be right, and I know tridge will very much agree with you
May 05 22:47:52 <elb> I'm not sure what the current status is
May 05 22:47:53 <benh> elb: but it does somewhat against the HW evolution lately :-)
May 05 22:47:59 <elb> I think most people just avoid ruby threads whenever possible ;-)
May 05 22:48:17 <elb> benh: all those cores can take advantage of multiple processes, though ;-)
May 05 22:48:21 <lcuk> hmmm, ok the terminal scrollback is fixed size
May 05 22:48:29 <benh> elb: yes, well, you are totally in sync with tridge here :-)
May 05 22:48:45 <benh> I personally like threads but then, I -do- understand locking & sync :-)
May 05 22:49:01 <lcuk> benh, get into serious dsp code then :)
May 05 22:49:04 <benh> (though I suspect tridge does too .. it's just the average programmer doesn't)
May 05 22:49:18 <elb> there's definitely a place for threading
May 05 22:49:26 <elb> but I consider it a last-ditch effort
May 05 22:49:30 <benh> lcuk: did a bit a looooong time ago... nowadays, I do serious kernel code :-)
May 05 22:49:41 <benh> elb: well, the kernel is a good spot for that :-)
May 05 22:49:41 <pupnik> real programmers should make dosbox sound emulation faster
May 05 22:49:43 <elb> you should always let the operating system do everything it can for you -- and protecting memory space is something it can do
May 05 22:50:09 <benh> elb: I tend to agree in principle... in practice however, it's expensive in terms of performances
May 05 22:50:19 <elb> yeah, it depends on what you're doing, for sure
May 05 22:50:21 <pupnik> someday ... lcuk :) someday...
May 05 22:50:38 <benh> elb: a good example is good old mach with non colocated server for those who remember mklinux...
May 05 22:50:44 <benh> elb: the cost of memory protection was huge
May 05 22:50:50 <benh> elb: though it provides a really nice design
May 05 22:51:04 <elb> but the windows model of "create a thread for everything", for example, I think is too far
May 05 22:51:24 <elb> especially since a LOT of applications are blocked most of the time, anyway
May 05 22:51:41 <benh> elb: I agree, and the average windows programmer has no idea about locking
May 05 22:52:01 <elb> yeah
May 05 22:52:09 <elb> that's actually my biggest problem with ubiquitous threading
May 05 22:52:15 <benh> elb: ported various windows app to other platforms in a former life, it was scary what you would find in there
May 05 22:52:19 <elb> it requires a level of cluefulness that most programmers just don't have
May 05 22:52:24 <benh> very true
May 05 22:52:40 <elb> so while the original author may even understand what's going on, the probability of the next guy Getting It goes down rapidly
May 05 22:52:40 <jldiaz> what is the official X11 name of PgUp PgDn?
May 05 22:52:45 <elb> jldiaz: Prior/Next
May 05 22:52:57 <jldiaz> elb, thx!
May 05 22:53:12 <benh> have to run, bbl
May 05 22:53:32 <elb> benh: I've always considered Ousterhout's little talk on concurrency versus event-driven programming an excellent position
May 05 22:53:45 <benh> elb: I think tridge did a talk on the matter too, I can't find a reference now
May 05 22:54:01 <benh> elb: I tend to prefer event driven for anything GUI
May 05 22:54:22 <elb> well, event driven maps well to GUI paradigms, as well
May 05 22:54:30 <elb> so you're not really *losing* by going event driven
May 05 22:54:32 <benh> elb: I agree that threads tend to bring a false sense of simplicity... no complicated state machines, linear programming ... and races
May 05 22:54:54 <elb> yeah
May 05 22:55:16 <elb> basically, when threads are the right solution, they're the right solution and nothing else even comes close
May 05 22:55:32 <elb> the rest of the time, you'll be happier with fork() or select() or a mixture thereof
May 05 22:55:42 <jldiaz> ok, it works. You can map Fn+dpad Up/Down to Prior/Next
May 05 22:56:12 <benh> really have to run now tho :-) bbl
May 05 22:56:25 <jldiaz> this will simplify the use of BitchX, and get rid of the xterm toolbar forever
May 05 22:56:52 <elb> jldiaz: yeah, that's exactly what I did
May 05 22:56:53 <jldiaz> also useful over vnc
May 05 22:57:18 <elb> that and Fn+space to tab go a long way toward making things more usable
May 05 22:57:39 <elb> I almost never use Prior/Next on my PC, because C-v M-v are easier
May 05 22:57:48 <elb> but on the tablet, Fn+arrows become easier
May 05 22:58:03 <jldiaz> for some reason I prefer Fn+Bkspace for Tab
May 05 22:58:48 <jldiaz> what did you with chr key?
May 05 23:01:04 <jldiaz> i mapped it to iso_level5_shift, and then used type="EIGTH_LEVEL" for most of the other keys
May 05 23:01:40 <jldiaz> this gave me access to a lot of latin1 symbols I need
May 05 23:01:56 <jldiaz> but I miss an Alt key for vnc
May 05 23:02:45 <GNUton> nught
May 05 23:03:05 <jldiaz> and do not really know the difference between level3 and level5 shift
May 05 23:03:37 <jldiaz> only noticed that with level3 (the default) some keys were no re-mapeable
May 05 23:04:27 <elb> I left Chr as-is
May 05 23:04:58 <jldiaz> so you dont have Alt either
May 05 23:05:20 <elb> no
May 05 23:05:22 <elb> I use Esc
May 05 23:06:20 <jldiaz> that works for emacs, but not for cycling windows over vnc
May 05 23:06:33 <elb> I don't use vnc ;-)
May 05 23:06:37 <jldiaz> (alt-tab)
May 05 23:06:47 <jldiaz> lucky of you :)
May 05 23:10:40 <elb> my window manager uses Super+Tab, anyway
May 05 23:10:41 <jldiaz> I'm getting obsessed with having a truly full-screen console
May 05 23:10:45 <elb> and I sure don't have a Super key ;-)
May 05 23:10:56 <jldiaz> can I get rid of the scroll bar?
May 05 23:11:13 <jldiaz> this is the last space consumer
May 05 23:11:36 <jldiaz> wich ia not required once I have Prior/Next keys
May 05 23:11:59 <elb> you can, in gconftool
May 05 23:12:05 <elb> but it comes back every time you restart
May 05 23:12:15 <jldiaz> :(
May 05 23:12:18 <elb> apparently that's fixed in some version of osso-xterm floating around the web
May 05 23:12:31 <elb> (you'll also notice that the toolbar comes back every time you restart)
May 05 23:12:51 <jldiaz> I have the latest svn version of osso-xterm
May 05 23:13:10 <jldiaz> in this version the toolbar does not come back
May 05 23:13:13 <elb> oh, then you can probably get rid of the scrollbar with gconftool and have it say gone
May 05 23:13:17 <elb> stay
May 05 23:13:31 * jldiaz is trying that
May 05 23:17:02 <ogi1234> hi there
May 05 23:17:04 <jldiaz> hum
May 05 23:18:09 <ogi1234> i am trying to make a keyboard layout for n810
May 05 23:18:13 <jldiaz> gconftool is only an interface to the %gconf files scattered under /var/lib/gconf, right?
May 05 23:18:39 <jldiaz> ogi1234, we were talking about this very subject
May 05 23:20:34 <ogi1234> i have problem - is i write key <COMP>{ [ ISO_Level5_Shift,ISO_Level5_Shift,ISO_Level5_Shift,ISO_Level5_Shift] };
May 05 23:20:44 <ogi1234> everything is fine
May 05 23:20:59 <ogi1234> but i have to hold chr key
May 05 23:22:06 <jldiaz> so, if I edit /var/lib/gconf/apps/osso/xterm/%gconf.xml I can access to the same options than with gconftool, true?
May 05 23:22:23 <ogi1234> with key <COMP>{[Multi_key,Multi_key,Multi_key,Multi_key]}; i cannot go to level5
May 05 23:22:28 <ogi1234> any idea?
May 05 23:22:48 <jldiaz> ogi1234, what do you pretend?
May 05 23:23:17 <jldiaz> I mean, what do you want to do?
May 05 23:23:49 <ogi1234> I want to make a layout for the hardware keybord - n810
May 05 23:23:59 <jldiaz> "pretend" was not the right word, I guess, it is a "false friend" in spanish
May 05 23:24:28 <jldiaz> ogi1234 , I mean what is the desired behavior for the chr key
May 05 23:25:45 <ogi1234> when I hold ctrl and pres chr there is a label "input language switched"
May 05 23:26:15 <ogi1234> but it is only a label
May 05 23:26:22 <ogi1234> in fact nothing hapens
May 05 23:26:59 <ds3> \
May 05 23:27:45 <ogi1234> i need to toggle the layout on ctrl+chr
May 05 23:28:41 <jldiaz> it happens if the alphanumeric keys have type "EIGHT_LEVEL"
May 05 23:29:11 <ogi1234> i have put so - but it does not work...
May 05 23:29:19 <jldiaz> then, each key has 8 mappings
May 05 23:29:52 <jldiaz> the first 4 and the last 4 get swapped when you press Ctrl-Chr
May 05 23:30:17 <ogi1234> yes, exactly - my defs seems correct
May 05 23:30:40 <jldiaz> but <COMP> needs to be ISO_LEVEL3_SHIFT
May 05 23:30:40 <ogi1234> i have put 8 mappings
May 05 23:31:22 <ogi1234> what do i have to put for the key <COMP> - why does it have 4 values?
May 05 23:53:58 <jldiaz> 4 values for: chr, shift+chr, Fn+chr, Fn+shift+chr
May 05 23:56:27 <ogi1234> thanks jldiaz - i am still fighting...
May 05 23:57:47 <ogi1234> I have put keybord layouts from http://upir.cz/maemo/keyboards/
May 05 23:58:53 <ogi1234> do you know if there is a difference if i modify /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44 or /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/ukeyboard files?
May 06 00:17:27 <evaryont_> where does canola store downloaded youtube vids?
May 06 00:17:50 <evaryont_> oh, nvm. Found it ^^
May 06 00:31:13 <zakm> can i get SDHC working on my nokia 770  without soldering?
May 06 00:31:29 <KotCzarny> with usb reader? :)
May 06 00:32:09 <zakm> i dont know. RS-MMC"s are too expensive for me
May 06 00:32:16 <zakm> im just looking at alternate ways?
May 06 00:32:30 <KotCzarny> buy n800
May 06 00:32:30 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 00:32:33 <zakm> i just need a nice $10-20 method
May 06 00:32:45 <zakm> not a option unforuntary. unless your offering to donate?
May 06 00:33:12 <zakm> i wish i knew before i bought my nokia 770 .. i thought this had a SD slot ;p
May 06 00:33:15 <KotCzarny> if you don't mind ~20% of screen dead there is one for 120$ on craigslist
May 06 00:33:16 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 00:33:23 <zakm> lol
May 06 00:33:31 <zakm> i just bought my nokia 770 for $85 like two weeks ago
May 06 00:33:41 <zakm> Toronto craigslist?
May 06 00:33:47 <KotCzarny> new york
May 06 00:33:58 <zakm> ;p
May 06 00:34:05 <zakm> ebay is like $75 :(
May 06 00:34:11 <zakm> thats why i wish i knew. but its too late now
May 06 00:34:13 <Fatal> how much would you pay for a 1GB rs-mmc?
May 06 00:34:23 <zakm> all i got is like $20?
May 06 00:34:35 <zakm> like literaly in my wallet a $20 bill.
May 06 00:34:39 <Fatal> here it's ~$23
May 06 00:34:39 <zakm> canadian ...
May 06 00:34:43 <Fatal> oh
May 06 00:34:55 <zakm> im in Toronto, ON
May 06 00:35:09 <KotCzarny> 1 U.S. dollar = 1.01099968 Canadian dollars
May 06 00:35:10 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 06 00:35:17 <zakm> lol
May 06 00:35:23 <zakm> yeah .. i look at the paper
May 06 00:35:41 <zakm> its insignificant when your dealing with $10-20 ;p
May 06 00:35:51 <zakm> Fatal: why. you know where to get a cheap one?
May 06 00:36:07 <zakm> i was thinking ebay but i dont wanna wait like 2 weeks for it to come
May 06 00:36:26 <zakm> do SDHC cards work .. like without touching the actual device hardware?
May 06 00:36:43 <Fatal> I just thougt the normal prices for them are insanely cheap, then again, I bought my cards >2 years ago
May 06 00:36:44 <zakm> dont mind software like changing kernels and all .. but i dont wanna physically open up and mess with it
May 06 00:37:04 <zakm> near me theres a store they want $60 for 1gb rs-mmc -.-
May 06 00:37:08 <tchan> 1Gb rs-mmc card $13.85 from oempcworld.com, http://www.oempcworld.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DV-RS-MMC1024
May 06 00:37:27 <zakm> uhmm shipping...
May 06 00:37:34 <zakm> to canada? im guessing thats US
May 06 00:37:42 <Fatal> zakm: cripes, cellphone or camera store? those are normally insanely expensive :P
May 06 00:37:55 <Fatal> regardless of what the real world charges :)
May 06 00:37:55 <zakm> and im only 17.. ill need to ask someone with a creditcard then
May 06 00:38:04 <zakm> electronic store
May 06 00:38:28 <zakm> i want to try 2008HE again but the 64mb that came with it doesnt do much in the way of swap ;p
May 06 00:38:47 <zakm> and i want to store more on it
May 06 00:38:55 <zakm> wish i bought a nokia 800 :(
May 06 00:39:08 <zakm> anyone wanna take my nokia 770 and $50 for your nokia 800?
May 06 00:39:33 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 00:39:49 <zakm> anyways. is there a easy method for me to use stuff other than rs-mmc's ?
May 06 00:40:00 <zakm> on my nokia 770
May 06 00:41:13 <ogi1234> hi, again - i am still digging in keyborad layouts - anybody knows what xkb_symbols stands for? i mean is the letters after that related to anything?
May 06 00:43:05 <Fatal> zakm: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12833
May 06 00:43:40 <zakm> so a custom kernel is all i need?
May 06 00:43:44 <zakm> thats it ... nothing more?
May 06 00:44:34 <Fatal> no idea, I just thought I'd google for nokia 770 sdhc :) was the second hit
May 06 00:45:20 <zakm> could you check please. i dont want to buy a sdhc and then turns out not working?
May 06 00:45:24 <freelikegnu> kinda sad how 810 is minisd
May 06 00:45:30 <zakm> are sdhc's even the right size?
May 06 00:46:11 <zakm> they look like seame size of SD?
May 06 00:46:11 <freelikegnu> sd/sdhc is different tech in a similar size card as rs-mmc
May 06 00:46:21 <Fatal> zakm: I neither have my 770 around, or a sdhc card, plus it's 2:45am. I bet you could read the discussion just as well as me :)
May 06 00:46:26 <zakm> rs-mmc is super small?
May 06 00:46:31 <zakm> rs-mmc is like minisd size?
May 06 00:46:53 <zakm> Fatal: ive read it but nobody really confirms it properly
May 06 00:46:56 <freelikegnu> sd readers are generally compatible with rs-mmc, but not the other way around iirc
May 06 00:47:21 <zakm> yeah my sd reader works on it
May 06 00:47:28 <zakm> but if its a super small slot
May 06 00:47:31 <zakm> how can you fit a SD?
May 06 00:47:42 <zakm> yet the discussion says its possible?
May 06 00:49:11 <freelikegnu> http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/index.php/id;1170483582;pp;4
May 06 00:49:27 <freelikegnu> read the above article about card compatabilities
May 06 00:50:34 <zakm> that talks about mmc not rs-mmc
May 06 00:50:40 <zakm> rs = reduduced size
May 06 00:50:44 <zakm> making them smaller than mmc's -.-
May 06 00:51:15 <freelikegnu> if you read the entire page, it is explained
May 06 00:52:56 <zakm> The interesting factor with RS-MMC is that it's the same width as a regular SD or MMC card, and can thus be read (with an adapter) in any SD or MMC slot. <--- but not vice-versa?
May 06 00:55:32 <KotCzarny> zakm: flash the fanoush kernel and take your nokia to the store for some sdhc testing/ :)
May 06 00:56:36 <zakm> you want me to flash it and then get them to try it and if it works i buy it?
May 06 00:56:38 <KotCzarny> "And all I need other than a slot rework is a kernel?"
May 06 00:57:15 <zakm> i have to change the slot?
May 06 00:57:26 <zakm> i dont want to solder?
May 06 00:57:40 <KotCzarny> http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=204326553&adid=17653&dcaid=17653 ?
May 06 00:58:01 <zakm> ?
May 06 00:58:06 <KotCzarny> adapter
May 06 00:58:19 <zakm> thats to make a miniSD into a SD?
May 06 00:58:31 <zakm> theres already one of those in the 770 ?
May 06 00:58:58 <KotCzarny> i wonder if you could fit sd card into 770's slot
May 06 00:59:23 <zakm> http://bp0.blogger.com/_mWIlnetsixI/RxWGxK9diWI/AAAAAAAAABw/wp1fZ9rmmEo/s400/DSCN0592.JPG <-- inside the 770
May 06 01:00:04 <zakm> a SD card width isnt big enough
May 06 01:00:07 <zakm> to slide in
May 06 01:01:15 <KotCzarny> i thought rs-mmc has the same width as mmc and same wwidth as sd(hc)
May 06 01:01:28 <zakm> well
May 06 01:01:31 <zakm> its barely going in
May 06 01:01:33 <zakm> and uhm
May 06 01:01:36 <zakm> sticking out alot
May 06 01:01:44 <KotCzarny> that's length
May 06 01:01:45 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 01:01:47 <evaryont> what could cause the provided PDF reader to reject a pdf file? I tried loading one but in the file browser it's disabled, not letting me select it for loading. :(
May 06 01:01:58 <zakm> no memory card inserted
May 06 01:02:02 <KotCzarny> evaryont: is it encrypted? :)
May 06 01:02:07 <evaryont> KotCzarny: no
May 06 01:02:14 <KotCzarny> does it work in pc ?
May 06 01:02:15 <zakm> evaryont: does it work on a pc?
May 06 01:02:18 <evaryont> I made it via CUPS's print to pdf
May 06 01:02:18 <zakm> hah
May 06 01:02:19 <evaryont> yes
May 06 01:02:45 <zakm> so if i patch with a idfferent kernel .. could normal SDs work?
May 06 01:02:50 <KotCzarny> zakm: do you have any sd card to test?
May 06 01:02:53 <evaryont> both in Adobe Acrobat Reader v8 & epdfviewer
May 06 01:03:19 <zakm> yeah
May 06 01:03:23 <zakm> a 128mb in my hand now
May 06 01:03:35 <zakm> im running linux atm .. on 2007HE
May 06 01:03:44 <KotCzarny> then flash that hacked kernel and test it?
May 06 01:03:45 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 01:04:02 <zakm> omg
May 06 01:04:05 <zakm> missing one tree hill
May 06 01:04:06 <evaryont> Also, what is the little icon in the upper right corner of Canola? It's 4 boxes with the second one filled in and raised slightly?
May 06 01:04:09 <zakm> gonna try in about a hour :P
May 06 01:04:19 <zakm> thanks :D
May 06 01:05:35 <evaryont> KotCzarny: any reasons? I wanna start 'printing' articles for offline enjoyment! :/
May 06 01:06:03 <KotCzarny> evaryont: don't know, maybe look for other pdf readers?
May 06 01:06:17 <evaryont> heh. k
May 06 01:07:48 <evaryont> maemo.org is down? :/ garage.maemo.org isn't, thankfully
May 06 01:34:34 <benh> doh
May 06 01:34:39 <benh> looking at some of the BT UI elements
May 06 01:34:44 <benh> damn, talk about abusing dbus !
May 06 01:36:26 <pupnik_> hey brand new shit
May 06 01:36:27 <pupnik_> admiral fallon gave direct orders to not fire on the iranian speedboats in january
May 06 01:37:48 <KotCzarny> pupnik: didn't he resigned lately?
May 06 01:37:58 <pupnik_> yes
May 06 01:38:03 <pupnik_> he got axed
May 06 01:39:19 <pupnik_> just for U KotCzarny  http://pupnik.de/Scott_Horton-UofTexas_Speech_April_28-The_Reasons_for_Attacking_Iran.avi
May 06 01:39:35 <pupnik_> a great example of using 3d denoise filter to crunch video from 250 to 90 MB
May 06 01:39:36 <KotCzarny> is there a transcript?
May 06 01:39:50 <pupnik_> no i was going to write one but hey, 90<MB
May 06 01:39:55 <fysa> do we have a VNC client that does scaling?
May 06 01:40:44 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 01:55:16 <pupnik_> hey KotCzarny can i show your uae vs standard uae at linuxtag?
May 06 01:55:30 <KotCzarny> it's not mine..
May 06 01:55:32 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 01:55:35 <pupnik_> well yeah
May 06 01:55:44 <pupnik_> i mean... would you like me to mention you
May 06 01:55:57 <KotCzarny> and as i said you can do anything you want because i have no rights on it :)
May 06 01:55:58 <pupnik_> i want to compare the gp2x stuff to standard stuff
May 06 01:56:18 <pupnik_> uae and nes are the only running things atm
May 06 01:56:20 <KotCzarny> i have only tweaked ui a little and compiled it
May 06 01:56:23 <pupnik_> i probably won't finish snes
May 06 01:56:31 <pupnik_> yeah but i failed and you did it
May 06 01:56:35 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 01:56:39 <pupnik_> so do i mention you or not
May 06 01:56:48 <KotCzarny> well
May 06 01:56:51 <KotCzarny> no problem
May 06 01:56:55 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 01:57:04 <KotCzarny> you can mention me as kotczarny :)
May 06 01:57:10 <pupnik_> ok
May 06 01:57:34 <KotCzarny> btw. when is linuxtag ?
May 06 01:58:04 <lcuk> its where we throw around velcro penguins
May 06 01:58:08 <pupnik_> nokia stuf 29 may
May 06 01:58:29 <KotCzarny> 3 weeks from now
May 06 01:58:32 <KotCzarny> roughly
May 06 01:58:33 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 01:59:11 <KotCzarny> http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/car/669387666.html
May 06 01:59:11 <KotCzarny> lol
May 06 02:00:38 <KotCzarny> lcuk: velcro penguins stuffed with bricks?
May 06 02:00:40 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 02:00:45 <lcuk> i hope not
May 06 02:01:02 <lcuk> ive been playing lots this weekend
May 06 02:01:03 <KotCzarny> element of surprise
May 06 02:01:04 <KotCzarny> :>
May 06 02:01:33 <lcuk> its on the ftp :)
May 06 02:01:37 <KotCzarny> good
May 06 02:01:46 <KotCzarny> i'm close to getting out of the ff loop
May 06 02:02:25 <KotCzarny> collide ?
May 06 02:02:42 <lcuk> if you look at the file select, then do the same after drawing something theres a little surprise
May 06 02:02:46 <lcuk> yer
May 06 02:03:24 <lcuk> i think in the next couple of days i will have 0 + 90 rotation - the font already works i just have to code up the measurement code
May 06 02:03:54 <KotCzarny> you should install xrandr patch
May 06 02:04:05 <lcuk> no
May 06 02:04:06 <KotCzarny> and see how the code works with it
May 06 02:04:45 <lcuk> i cannot rely on the user installing such a patch so must operate with the playing field as it stands
May 06 02:05:07 <KotCzarny> well, treat it as getting 'future proof'
May 06 02:05:08 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 02:05:58 <lcuk> when i future proof it, the code i have written now should allow me to use this software on 770, maybe even other devices as well
May 06 02:06:00 <KotCzarny> btw. mouse info overwrites itself in drawing mode
May 06 02:06:16 <lcuk> yer i noticed after i ripped out the underbelly of everything
May 06 02:06:32 <lcuk> font code now ORs with the background, it used to just copy
May 06 02:06:36 <lcuk> i havent fixed up all places
May 06 02:06:59 <KotCzarny> how do i get out of file selector?
May 06 02:07:13 <KotCzarny> (not to mention it doesn't show any files yet
May 06 02:07:26 <lcuk> esc - there is lag, i havent tidied up the loop
May 06 02:08:17 <lcuk> had the same issue with one other screen a couple of days ago so will see whats wrong tomorrow
May 06 02:09:29 <lcuk> i am going to be including something in sudoers as part of the installi tried a few alternatives earlier and will decide in a few days which seems to work best
May 06 02:09:50 <KotCzarny> hmm
May 06 02:10:03 <KotCzarny> you should include aspect variable everywhere
May 06 02:10:22 <KotCzarny> in 640x480 mode circles aren't citcles
May 06 02:10:32 <lcuk> i was shocked i could include it at all, aspect is a tweak of one pair of variables from where i am now
May 06 02:11:09 <KotCzarny> otoh it's a nice test of resolutions
May 06 02:11:14 <KotCzarny> ie. how thing would look
May 06 02:11:15 <lcuk> ahhh circles i thought you meant the brushes
May 06 02:11:17 <KotCzarny> things
May 06 02:11:29 <KotCzarny> brushes? where?
May 06 02:11:29 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 02:11:35 <lcuk> go into the drawing
May 06 02:11:42 <lcuk> draw something on the screen
May 06 02:11:46 <lcuk> write your name or something
May 06 02:12:04 <lcuk> then go back to the "file areas floating around and bumping into them" area
May 06 02:12:15 <KotCzarny> ah, yes, i saw that
May 06 02:12:48 <KotCzarny> btw. for random movement you should run sin/cos thingy on position
May 06 02:12:51 <lcuk> how many things are bouncing around for you
May 06 02:12:59 <KotCzarny> 7
May 06 02:13:08 <lcuk> ahhh mines practically full
May 06 02:13:51 <KotCzarny> i see some overdrawing in bouncing mode
May 06 02:14:15 <KotCzarny> ie. things overflowing to uv plane
May 06 02:14:17 <lcuk> yer line code
May 06 02:14:28 * lcuk rolls his own eyes - its predebta :P
May 06 02:14:37 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 02:14:38 <lcuk> -typos
May 06 02:14:55 <lcuk> im starting to enjoy coding in it
May 06 02:15:34 <KotCzarny> btw. ebook scroll speed is res dependant
May 06 02:15:38 <KotCzarny> it shouldn't
May 06 02:16:01 <lcuk> thats all being ripped out now i have these pieces in place
May 06 02:17:32 <KotCzarny> and yes, i still like it
May 06 02:17:32 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 02:19:11 <KotCzarny> i wish there would be a gps in a sd form factor
May 06 02:19:36 <KotCzarny> (non sticking out)
May 06 02:19:52 <pupnik_> hey KotCzarny
May 06 02:19:59 <pupnik_> see the hiroshima pixs?
May 06 02:20:01 <pupnik_> http://homepage.mac.com/kaaawa/iblog/C177199123/E20080504184518/index.html
May 06 02:20:20 <KotCzarny> http://www.semsons.com/hahiblgpswis.html
May 06 02:20:22 <KotCzarny> hummm
May 06 02:20:31 <KotCzarny> interesting for n800 users
May 06 02:20:36 <KotCzarny> maybe for 770 too
May 06 02:21:12 <lcuk> gnite folks
May 06 02:21:16 <KotCzarny> nite nite
May 06 02:21:22 <lcuk> and pupnik, yes ive seen a lot of them :(
May 06 02:23:59 <pupnik_> poor huumans
May 06 02:23:59 <KotCzarny> and if it wasn't for the winning side it would look like a massacre
May 06 02:29:02 <mikedep333> hey, can somebody link me to the guide to speeding up OS2008?
May 06 02:30:34 <Proteous> there's a guide?
May 06 02:31:17 <mikedep333> on internettablettalk.com somewhere, yes
May 06 02:31:44 <mikedep333> found it
May 06 02:31:45 <mikedep333> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17666
May 06 02:32:44 <Proteous> do a google search with "site:internettablettalke.com" in there
May 06 02:32:50 <Proteous> that will search just that site
May 06 02:32:54 <Proteous> without the quites
May 06 02:32:56 <Proteous> quotes
May 06 02:32:59 <mikedep333> I found it
May 06 02:33:02 <mikedep333> that link I posted is it
May 06 02:33:05 <mikedep333> thanks anyway though
May 06 02:33:05 <Proteous> usualy works better then the on site search
May 06 02:33:14 <Proteous> I was just saying for future searching :P
May 06 02:33:24 <mikedep333> lol, yeah
May 06 02:33:30 <mikedep333> google searches do work better like that
May 06 02:33:34 <Proteous> givin out the knowledge free of charge
May 06 02:33:41 <mikedep333> I am glad to see some sites migrating over to google searches
May 06 02:33:42 <Proteous> soon you will be a intenet search master like me
May 06 02:36:14 <fysa> my 16GB class 6 Transcend is half as fast at reads as my 8GB class 6 Transcend.  that doesn't seem right.
May 06 02:36:24 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 02:36:40 <fysa> now I have a dilemma over which becomes my boot mmc.
May 06 02:36:43 <mikedep333> how fast?
May 06 02:36:49 <KotCzarny> fysa: smaller
May 06 02:36:56 <mikedep333> I think my 2 GB SD card is like 15MB/sec read
May 06 02:37:05 <mikedep333> and it doesn't seem as fast as the internal memory
May 06 02:37:12 <KotCzarny> my kingston sdhc cards are ~4mb/s
May 06 02:37:13 <fysa> my 8GB card is about that fast
May 06 02:37:25 <fysa> but my 16GB card is only 8.5 MB/s
May 06 02:37:53 <fysa> mikedep333, are you using the 48mhz mmc patch?
May 06 02:37:55 <KotCzarny> fysa: do you run a custom kernel or it's on original?
May 06 02:38:03 <fysa> this is reads on my desktop. :)
May 06 02:38:07 <KotCzarny> ahm
May 06 02:38:07 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 02:38:09 <fysa> haven't benchmarked on the device yet
May 06 02:38:19 <KotCzarny> i don't have a sd reader for my pc
May 06 02:38:25 <KotCzarny> so i can't test
May 06 02:38:28 <fysa> ah
May 06 02:38:40 <fysa> mine came with a nice little keyfob reader
May 06 02:38:50 <fysa> thumbdrive-style
May 06 02:38:51 <KotCzarny> well, i have, but it's usb1.1
May 06 02:39:01 <KotCzarny> so i don't use it for anything but emergency
May 06 02:39:02 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 02:40:09 <KotCzarny> btw. i get ~4mb/s with/without sd speedup patch
May 06 02:40:19 <fysa> no difference?
May 06 02:40:45 <mikedep333> fysa: no
May 06 02:40:49 <mikedep333> more info on it please?
May 06 02:41:47 <fysa> I'm using this kernel:
May 06 02:41:47 <fysa> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19104
May 06 02:41:59 <fysa> the 'experimental kernel'
May 06 02:42:19 <KotCzarny> but you didn't benchmarked it on device, yet
May 06 02:42:28 <fysa> http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg06217.html
May 06 02:42:44 <mikedep333> bookmarked, I'll look into it soon
May 06 02:42:45 <mikedep333> thanks
May 06 02:42:57 <fysa> searching for "48mhz mmc" will give you all the answers
May 06 02:44:23 <KotCzarny> btw. i use hdparm for testing
May 06 02:44:46 <KotCzarny> dd doesn't flush cache
May 06 02:46:41 <KotCzarny> man, how i would like to disable maemo-launcher
May 06 02:47:15 <fysa> is there an hdparm deb?
May 06 02:47:32 <KotCzarny> don't know, maybe on debian.org ?
May 06 02:47:36 <KotCzarny> i have compiled it myself
May 06 02:47:37 <KotCzarny> :)
May 06 02:48:08 <fysa> oh, I have bonnie
May 06 02:48:20 <KotCzarny> bonnie on sd?
May 06 02:48:21 <KotCzarny> fun
May 06 02:52:33 <fysa> time to pack again.  tired of these trips.  thinking of buying a set of clothes to always leave packed.
May 06 02:52:43 <Navi> Haha
May 06 02:52:46 <fysa> (my wife thinks I'm nuts)
May 06 02:53:01 <Navi> a set that's never washed too
May 06 02:53:30 <fysa> bonnie is writing intelligently.
May 06 02:53:37 <fysa> I will paste my results here so #maemo.log can store them forever.
May 06 02:54:32 <Navi> Woo
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 06 02:59:57 2008