**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 10 02:59:57 2008 May 10 03:03:24 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/moredimmingoptions/ May 10 03:05:14 That's embarrassingly simple, thanks May 10 03:11:08 yo guys May 10 03:11:16 how can i alter my contacts menu May 10 03:11:22 the one with the stupid osso-mail and all that May 10 03:11:25 thats on the left May 10 03:11:34 can't May 10 03:11:37 but May 10 03:11:37 has like view-contacts, compose email, new internet call, etc et all ad nauseum May 10 03:11:47 you cant? how silly May 10 03:11:55 it is full of fail and things that i dont need to do May 10 03:12:33 install personal-menu, then go into control panel, under "panels" and experience win May 10 03:14:52 ok May 10 03:14:58 i'm attempting WIN right now May 10 03:15:03 ^_^ May 10 03:15:10 and do you know what i'm doing? May 10 03:15:24 is it sfw? May 10 03:15:39 i've got my n800 linked to a pocket battery-powered AP, the PAN of which is using my iphone as a dual-port proxy with named resoloution :) May 10 03:16:05 behold the power of *nix May 10 03:16:07 Livingroom: got a link to that AP? May 10 03:16:24 it's a fAilP right now May 10 03:16:29 haha May 10 03:16:31 it must be connected to a wired connection or the firmware freezes May 10 03:16:37 even if the wired connection isnt active May 10 03:16:46 I meant the manufacturer or a store that sells it :) May 10 03:16:47 it just needs a loopback response on the 802.11 port May 10 03:16:57 I know someone who was looking for something like that May 10 03:17:00 its even 802.11g :) May 10 03:17:24 http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1689 May 10 03:17:30 thanks May 10 03:17:39 the AP itself isnt entirely battery powered May 10 03:17:42 it's USB powered/wall powered May 10 03:17:48 so i bought a bigass USB battery at radio shack May 10 03:17:49 nice May 10 03:17:55 and now it's battery powered May 10 03:17:59 i have a video on youtoob about it May 10 03:18:05 it can take power from a laptop though, right? May 10 03:18:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRUAMPQoUCc May 10 03:18:21 yep May 10 03:18:24 cool May 10 03:18:26 it works wonders connected to a laptop May 10 03:18:31 also: it has a switch May 10 03:18:37 so you can go from AP mode, to wireless-nic mode May 10 03:18:45 so if you have a wired-only device, BAM you can make it wireless. May 10 03:18:50 it's full of win May 10 03:19:01 now i just need a RJ11 loopback connector :( May 10 03:19:08 tell me what you think of my video, btw May 10 03:19:27 cool May 10 03:19:29 wil ldo May 10 03:20:22 * doc|home stabs flash May 10 03:20:26 will have to watch it in a bit May 10 03:20:28 hehe May 10 03:20:30 sorry :( May 10 03:20:32 my soundcard setup's not right May 10 03:22:33 trust me, pocket AP is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo very much better than FailHOC May 10 03:32:25 anyone still around? May 10 03:34:22 Not me! May 10 03:35:33 it's ok May 10 03:35:35 you're too awesome May 10 03:35:50 your presence would destabalize the channel May 10 03:36:15 i need a camera May 10 03:36:24 to show my laptop, tablet, psp, etc all tethered to my iphone May 10 03:42:50 what is this presence thing thats always on my freakin' toolbar May 10 03:43:33 Livingroom: nice vid, what's the advantage though of an AP, extra signal strength? May 10 03:43:43 also, you have way too many gadgets :) May 10 03:44:09 Ad-Hoc has visibility issue May 10 03:44:10 s May 10 03:44:25 "I can see Bob and Carol, but only Bob can see me" May 10 03:44:36 haha May 10 03:44:36 ah, ok May 10 03:44:40 you havent seen half my gadgets lolz May 10 03:44:49 surely everyone can use the same AP you are though May 10 03:44:52 also the AP means each device i have can has its own profile just for "iPhone" network May 10 03:45:00 or is this in the scenario when there is no AP? May 10 03:45:06 plus, adhoc typically only works 1v1 May 10 03:45:10 AP means ~254 clients May 10 03:45:14 Ad-Hoc means no AP May 10 03:45:31 yeah, but why even use ad-hoc? May 10 03:45:37 there's no reason for Ad-Hoc to be only two hosts, I've participated in numerous multi-host Ad-Hoc environments May 10 03:45:41 why not just use AP, or is it where there's no ap? May 10 03:45:54 ad-hoc has visibility issues like you said, though May 10 03:45:59 and more often than not, it simply doesnt work May 10 03:46:09 yeah, there's no doubt that it's a PITA May 10 03:46:50 going to restart the AP with new settings. pray... May 10 03:47:14 253 May 10 03:47:21 is it 253? May 10 03:47:33 .0, .255 and ap ip May 10 03:47:42 ah, yes indeed May 10 03:48:00 not that it matters much May 10 03:48:01 :) May 10 03:48:17 haha 253 clients would crash this poor ap LOLZ May 10 03:48:33 the funny part is that i have to run tinyproxy, srelay AND named on the iphone May 10 03:48:47 253 clients could clog the network with simple arp requests May 10 03:48:50 :) May 10 03:48:51 tinyproxy only proxies browsers reliable May 10 03:49:01 srelay doesnt do browsers, but can handle everything else May 10 03:49:43 no, I'm not asking why not use ad-hoc, I'm asking, why use *that* ap instead of whatever other one you're using in the building? May 10 03:49:45 :) May 10 03:49:59 also, this AP doesnt like to work if it's not connected to a wire at startup. god D@#& it May 10 03:50:08 the reason to use it is if another AP isnt present May 10 03:50:22 plus, many APs even if they are present are corporate networks with radius, wpa, wep, or even mac-filtering May 10 03:50:36 finding an available AP, and configuring a profile on each device, when you need to, is a bit tough May 10 03:50:50 carrying that AP with you in a bag and activating it when needed is best May 10 03:51:27 pisses me off that it locks up with no initial ethernet connection May 10 03:51:55 ah, ok May 10 03:51:58 that makes sense May 10 03:52:17 Livingroom: could you install another OS on it, like openwrt or something? May 10 03:52:25 doubtful May 10 03:52:27 now *there's* a challenge :) May 10 03:52:47 lolololololz. May 10 03:52:50 think i'll pass May 10 03:52:54 damn this sumbitch May 10 03:53:01 it works fine if it's got power to the nic! wtf!? May 10 03:53:18 i'm seriously developing a temper issue with this device May 10 03:54:23 i need food. help me decide, guys: pizza, or a burger, or a taco. May 10 03:57:06 tacos it is, then May 10 03:57:12 no! taco pizza, with hamburger May 10 03:57:14 yesssssss May 10 03:57:16 the precioussss May 10 03:58:20 the prawcesss May 10 04:01:26 Hmmmm didn't someone here say they were at Javaone? May 10 04:08:19 prawcess? May 10 04:10:10 http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=1338 May 10 04:10:11 lol May 10 04:11:59 These coils produce well over 110 dB of sound May 10 04:12:02 now, that's loud May 10 04:12:03 :> May 10 04:57:07 night May 10 04:58:05 OMGGN2U May 10 05:21:59 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4181629.stm May 10 05:22:00 lol May 10 05:22:06 lol May 10 05:22:25 how can i update my Internet Tablet Video Converter Updated … Mac Support! May 10 05:22:29 ???? May 10 05:54:08 Is chinook stable, or is it like debian (testing|sid)? May 10 05:54:28 there's no differentiation May 10 05:54:42 either you treat all of them as stable or unstable/testing May 10 05:55:41 sardine would be unstable, but it seems to no be in use anymore May 10 05:56:10 Ah May 10 05:58:08 * qwerty12 loves it that ./configure & make compile fine. Using dh_make and dpkg-build May 10 05:58:18 package messes things up. May 10 05:58:48 ATM, to get round that, I'm just making the clean section do nothing :/ May 10 06:02:28 If I want to do cross-compiling outside of scratchbox, the CTARGET should be armeb-generic-linux-gnu and not arm-generic-linux-gnu, correct? May 10 06:03:42 armel May 10 06:03:47 whatever that means May 10 06:03:57 and another word gnu eabi May 10 06:04:06 if that's helpful for you May 10 06:04:11 Yes May 10 06:04:16 el means little endian May 10 06:17:42 Hi everybody,... May 10 06:18:38 Hi, oh yeah, I need to reply to your pm. I was in the process but firefox crashed (watching my own video lol) May 10 06:19:05 ...is here someone who knows how to start a usb keyboard while booting May 10 06:19:36 might it work when i write a rc5 script wich starts usb host mode after usb init? May 10 06:20:37 no prob ;) May 10 06:21:10 i did it that console 1 comes up and shows the bootlog but then console 2 is starting and the bootlog disapears May 10 06:21:41 It stops when the x-server is started May 10 06:22:27 when i would start it with chvt 1 i have to find the point where the Code is requestet or? otherwise i will be jailed in console1 May 10 06:23:08 I don't get you :/. I never used chvt to show the bootlog. May 10 06:24:33 so my idea was to start the keyboard (exactly the usb host mode) so i might switch the console May 10 06:25:47 yes in the First time you start it when i am right by the bootmenu.config / bootmenu.sh you are initializing the modules for the console output and then set the fb_update mode... and on x-server start the console disappears. May 10 06:26:36 Yes it disables when X-server starts. Correct me if I am wrong but desktop computers do that too? May 10 06:27:22 no you are right ;) May 10 06:28:44 The only thing I did, after setting it up in bootmenu, is that I made fb_update_mode run again after the fb-progress was started. Otherwise the screen would never update properly. May 10 06:29:51 afk smoking May 10 06:37:16 i start it with the runlevel (readed the post in the forum after hours testing) May 10 06:37:51 but then i testet it the way with the bootmenu but my modules (font.ko ...) won't start May 10 06:38:27 i entert the lines in the bootmenu.conf and .sh but they won't start May 10 06:45:42 ZabbensX: there are more way's to change the console. there is also a cmd line tool May 10 06:46:07 chvt it is called May 10 06:49:29 yes i know but it would be nicer if it would be startet immideatly after the bootloader May 10 07:06:59 What package contains less? May 10 07:07:10 probably less package May 10 07:07:23 nope May 10 07:07:28 wait, holdon May 10 07:07:31 hehe May 10 07:09:43 Only had maemo-extras May 10 07:11:54 Is there a package that has a full vi (like vim)? May 10 07:12:07 probably May 10 07:13:12 yes, I think it's also in catalog May 10 07:13:27 mgedmin here did one May 10 07:15:36 How about a package with rfcomm? May 10 07:15:45 I'm just looking in http://repository.maemo.org May 10 07:16:12 robink gronmeyer.com/it May 10 07:16:52 s/gronmeyer/gronmayer May 10 07:18:00 also: google.com ' maemo' May 10 07:19:34 I tried googling "Icecream maemo" but it didn't work May 10 07:19:49 * Proteous cries May 10 07:19:53 try without "" May 10 07:20:12 the quotes were just for easy of reading on irc May 10 07:20:19 they were not part of my search string May 10 07:20:25 * GAN800 throws warm ice cream at Proteous May 10 07:20:30 maybe they should be May 10 07:20:31 * Proteous ducks May 10 07:20:55 'quacks' May 10 07:21:01 * Proteous emotes May 10 07:21:04 * czr loads his rifles May 10 07:21:13 * KotCzarny mes May 10 07:21:19 * Proteous /me May 10 07:21:47 * \me em/ May 10 07:21:50 hmm May 10 07:22:00 *innocent* May 10 07:23:41 I like it when previously played MMOs give out free playtime to past subscribers May 10 07:24:05 hookup is always free May 10 07:24:13 but I don't like how they don't let you download a recent version of the game and make you install from your CDs and then basicly download the game again to update it May 10 07:37:33 Ok, I've got my ROTT cd inserted, bearing in mind I haven't used it before, which files are the right ones to copy, the ones from rottinst or from rottplay? May 10 09:39:04 Where can I find minicom or cu for maemo? May 10 09:39:59 n/m, found it at garage.maemo.org May 10 09:50:14 argh, did rm -rf /opt/scratchbox while stuff was still mounted May 10 09:50:21 It looks like my rootfs survived, oddly May 10 10:03:25 what about your /dev? May 10 10:15:09 kulve: It gets regenerated by udev. It got clobbered, but it has recovered. May 10 10:16:58 hi May 10 10:18:05 i'm looking for python-twisted packages for chinook.. the only twisted pkgs i've found so far are for bora, outdated, on nokia's nrcc repo.. any hint? May 10 11:18:46 what do you think if someone ports FoF to maemo? With keyboard it would be very grett May 10 11:18:50 great May 10 13:53:04 hi all... does anybody know, is it possible to connect GPRS usb modem to nokia n810? May 10 14:05:30 possible. needs host mode. May 10 14:06:12 Military cremation procedures have been changed after a soldier complained that his buddy's remains were taken to what appeared to be a "pet crematorium," the Pentagon announced Friday. May 10 14:06:20 Hehe. May 10 14:18:24 RST38h, so, i just need to patch the kernel, right? May 10 14:20:55 VEL: Afaik, you don't need a thing, just load network driver May 10 14:20:58 or serial driver May 10 14:21:06 But I will check in a moment May 10 14:22:31 RST38h, Thank you muchly.. May 10 14:23:03 http://maemo.org/community/oldwiki/usbnetworkingwinxp/ May 10 14:23:09 It is for OS2006, sorry May 10 14:23:43 OS2008: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/setting_up_usb_networking.html May 10 14:23:55 i'm just deep in thought, to buy that device or not.. May 10 14:24:40 if it is real to use gpd modem (not bt) i buy it %) May 10 14:24:54 *gprs May 10 14:27:08 Make sure you can return the device. May 10 14:27:24 Or just buy yourself a cheap BT-equipped phone. May 10 14:28:10 This will save you a lot of trouble, like constantly open metal bracket, dangling dongle, etc. May 10 14:28:15 thanks for help :) May 10 14:44:05 using your phone's grps connection is a breeze with a nokia tablet May 10 14:44:10 * aquatix uses it all the time May 10 14:44:17 and setting up was shockingly easy :) May 10 14:44:20 gprs? a breeze? May 10 14:44:41 Relative breeze May 10 14:44:54 i don't mind '90 modem like speeds May 10 14:45:12 but pings >800ms are killing it's usefulness May 10 14:45:16 KotCzarny: true May 10 14:45:16 SSH works. May 10 14:45:26 heh May 10 14:45:31 but i'm not paying large amounts of money for umts May 10 14:45:44 Who cares abut the rest? I am not watchign youtube over gprs OR somehow else May 10 14:45:53 this is a flat-fee subscription for 7 euro/month May 10 14:45:59 RST38h: indeed May 10 14:46:05 and some browsing works fine May 10 14:46:07 if you use ssh then you should care about pings May 10 14:46:08 :) May 10 14:46:12 news sites and such May 10 14:46:18 yeah, ssh is odd over gprs May 10 14:46:21 very laggy May 10 14:46:31 especially when using screen & irssi May 10 14:46:44 it suffices for me May 10 14:47:01 and i'm not going to pay more money per month for umts than i pay for my 12MBit adsl at home May 10 14:47:09 good for irc, but for remote work it's irritating May 10 14:47:25 * aquatix is aware May 10 14:48:23 Kot: I have not noticed any problems with pings May 10 14:48:31 it depends on a lot of factors May 10 14:48:48 For remote work, I have 100btx cable routed to my home May 10 14:48:56 hehe May 10 14:49:05 as i said, for irc it's enough May 10 14:49:12 I was using 3G 1xRTT a lot about six or seven years ago, and depending on location and time of day the latency variance could be horrible May 10 14:49:27 1xRTT is not 3G May 10 14:49:36 EVDO is 3G May 10 14:49:49 my phone also would shut the connection down to some sort of idle state after just a few seconds of inactivity, which took a few hundred ms to come out of May 10 14:50:02 And, as both of these are CDMA technologies, we can't use them here May 10 14:50:09 RST38h: 1xRTT is 3G for CDMA May 10 14:50:13 No UMTS either, at least for the next few months May 10 14:50:22 according to CDMA2000 May 10 14:50:40 * aquatix wouldn't mind having hsdpa on his phone May 10 14:50:41 it's the bottom "3G" speed, everything below that is 2.5G or 2G May 10 14:50:48 elb: The first in a family of cdma2000 1x digital wireless standards designed to extend and replace the IS-95 CDMA standard. 1xRTT is sometimes referred to as a "2.5G" standard. May 10 14:50:57 3G is EVDO May 10 14:51:02 yes, sometimes it is ... but technically it's 3G May 10 14:51:15 I see you copy and pasted wikipedia, the source for all things factually inaccurate ;-) May 10 14:51:19 "Technically" you can call EDGE "3G". It all depends on how you count. May 10 14:51:34 elb: I have quoted http://www.phonescoop.com/glossary/term.php?gid=150 May 10 14:51:41 according to the "standard", 1xRTT is 3G May 10 14:51:51 edge is a minor update to gprs, so absolutely no 3G :) May 10 14:51:54 I quote standard in a humorous fashion, because it really is the damn standard May 10 14:52:10 bickering from someone who just happens to want something faster won't change it ;-) May 10 14:52:22 and the real point is ... back then, there was nothing faster May 10 14:52:28 at least not in any locale I was in May 10 14:52:36 true May 10 14:52:53 1xRTT has been in use for years now May 10 14:53:02 * aquatix demands a city-wide wifi network May 10 14:53:04 yes, it was the first 3G rolled out in the US May 10 14:53:05 ;) May 10 14:53:18 no, country-wide, with easy roaming May 10 14:53:22 aquatix: We pretty much have one here, but you have to pay $20/mo to GoldenTelecom May 10 14:53:24 * aquatix dreams on May 10 14:53:37 $20 isn't that much if it's decent May 10 14:53:50 anyway, I improved my wireless ssh'ing experience greatly with a 2s ping May 10 14:54:02 2s? May 10 14:54:03 because that kept the handset from trying to free the channel all the time May 10 14:54:04 :) May 10 14:54:07 elb: 2s?? May 10 14:54:18 you mean keep alive? May 10 14:54:18 oh May 10 14:54:19 yes, as in, ever 2 seconds, I sent a ping May 10 14:54:19 :) May 10 14:54:22 kk May 10 14:54:32 no, not keepalive, ping May 10 14:54:36 morning kot :) or is it a late shift for you May 10 14:54:41 sort of keep alive for phone :) May 10 14:54:44 hi lcuk May 10 14:54:49 * aquatix loaths the 700msec roundtrip time from his gprs May 10 14:55:00 the connection didn't *die* after a few seconds, it would just require a spinup for 3-500ms May 10 14:55:00 actually i don't know how to call my day position May 10 14:55:05 so let it be morning May 10 14:55:12 kot, i have had a practical idea and solution to the cpu issue. May 10 14:55:33 elb: but isn't gprs pay-per-byte ? May 10 14:55:34 * aquatix is going to spend the rest of the day not behind his pc May 10 14:55:37 have fun all :) May 10 14:55:47 KotCzarny: i have flat-fee gprs here May 10 14:55:51 cya aquatix May 10 14:56:12 lcuk: :) May 10 14:56:20 KotCzarny: I've never used GPRS May 10 14:56:36 I was using 1xRTT, and I had unlimited usage for $10/mo :-) May 10 14:56:47 elb: ok :) May 10 14:57:06 kot, if i wrote a tiny little dbus application to listen for Chargin/Not Charging signals. When the device is charging i switch to Performance, when its on battery i revert to ondemand. not part of a specific application and will boost everything May 10 14:57:29 hum May 10 14:57:37 as long it works.. May 10 14:57:38 :) May 10 14:57:41 heh I use that on my laptop May 10 14:57:46 i sit here tethered most of the time so thats a bonus and it would mean i dont forget to revert May 10 14:57:57 I also had my wife's laptop set up to shut down its second core on battery, but that started hanging things, I dunno why May 10 14:57:57 yer elb, thats what pinged last night May 10 14:58:03 elb: But you are wasting traffic May 10 14:58:04 lcuk, acmonitor's code could be helpful for that May 10 14:58:33 exactly, i know theres lots around, ive been thinking about specific application, but a simple monitor app would be better May 10 14:58:49 RST38h: not exactly May 10 14:59:00 without that traffic, performance was different ... so thte traffic served a purpose May 10 14:59:00 that way i can take out all the -turbo code and not worry about it anymore May 10 14:59:18 the handset was just stupid, I think, I've seen other handsets which didn't have such asinine behavior May 10 14:59:56 3600 / 2 * 56 bytes (?) = 100kB May 10 14:59:59 lcuk: does it get hot when idling on performance? May 10 15:00:44 not that ive noticed, and remember mines surrounded in a wooden enclosure. theonly time it gets warm is when charging battery but thats the same no matter what cpumode its in May 10 15:00:58 ok May 10 15:00:59 :) May 10 15:01:33 remember, the device is geared towards running movies and web etc, lots of things already push it over to performance levels anyway May 10 15:01:46 if it was every going to overheat it would have done it for other people by now May 10 15:01:53 movies? bleh. May 10 15:02:09 bleh maybe, but people use their devices for many different things May 10 15:02:19 someone recently got bat 770 when playing some emu May 10 15:02:20 :) May 10 15:02:26 *bad May 10 15:02:26 i barely ever use any kind of media player because i play "coding_in_c" its a great game May 10 15:02:34 RST38h: yes, I used about 448bps May 10 15:02:36 with a little b May 10 15:02:38 :-) May 10 15:02:42 My N800 gets very hot now. Not bleh that people use their to watch movies, its just Epson LCD chip sucks. May 10 15:02:55 I keep typing LSD by accident :/ May 10 15:02:59 qwerty, what do you mean sucks? May 10 15:03:31 if I had to guess, the constant shutting down and reconnecting of the link was more traffic May 10 15:03:47 lcuk, Without conversion, watching a movie is like watching a slideshow. May 10 15:03:49 when using ssh, it was generally reconnecting immediately after disconnecting May 10 15:04:05 thats not the lcd May 10 15:04:08 I only ran the pings when I was doing interactive work, for web browsing and stuff the link disabling wasn't a problem May 10 15:04:30 Anybody knows which applications can use the Nokia DSP? The Nokia media player doesn't use it, as far as I see May 10 15:04:34 thats you trying to decode a movie with such a high bitrate that you simple cannot decode a frame in time May 10 15:05:06 zap: gstreamer May 10 15:05:08 have you ever tried to play a movie directly on iphone or ipod? May 10 15:05:20 which player uses gstreamer? May 10 15:05:22 zap: and mplayer if you enable it in source code May 10 15:05:22 I dunno, my PPC would decode the same movies fine. It's the LCD chip not writing to the screen fast enough from what I read all over. May 10 15:05:30 or is that handled because itunes transcodes it for you May 10 15:05:42 zap: also builtin player should use dsp tasks too May 10 15:05:49 it doesn't May 10 15:06:00 qwerty, the screen CAN update 800*480 YUV frames at 25fps. May 10 15:06:02 /sys/bus/platform/devices/dsp/state told me May 10 15:06:27 if you can get enough data onto the bitplane it will refresh properly. May 10 15:06:29 lcuk: but there is no way you can decode this fast on the tablet May 10 15:06:35 lcuk, if it can, I have yet to see it when I watch a movie. May 10 15:06:42 rst: not true :) May 10 15:06:46 if you use a lower resolution (like 640*480) then it can do it at 33fps May 10 15:06:55 Kot: definitely true for 800x480 DivX May 10 15:07:02 that format is a pig May 10 15:07:08 RST38h, decoding by CPU alone is impractical and we run out of sheer horsepower May 10 15:07:18 KotCzarny: also mplayer that I have installed from repositories doesn't as well May 10 15:07:23 well, i've been watching 720x448 @ 23fps with sound via mp3task :) May 10 15:07:28 lcuk: I have some doubt about decoding on the dsp, even... May 10 15:07:54 we need additional help from the custom chipset built in which is not yet used - the IVA can help scaling, the pvr can help pushing blocks, and the DSP can help with the audio May 10 15:08:03 qwerty: any progress on Conky? =) May 10 15:08:10 KotCzarny: Cool, mplayer coughs for me even at 640x480 May 10 15:08:15 RST38h, I plan to try today :) May 10 15:08:31 zap: because by default it uses mad for decoding and esd for audio out May 10 15:08:48 KotCzarny: why DSP is not the default then? May 10 15:08:57 zap: sync issues when seeking May 10 15:09:03 using dsp will lower the CPU clock, its a tradeoff May 10 15:09:16 lcuk: not with custom kernel May 10 15:09:17 :) May 10 15:09:40 thats gstreamer fault? May 10 15:09:51 zap: probably May 10 15:09:52 afair May 10 15:10:46 Ok, are there any nokia employees that hate Nokia? if so, send me the location of osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked :p May 10 15:12:28 hmm, no sound with -ao gst :) May 10 15:12:43 zap: as i have said you have to enable it in source May 10 15:12:57 or you can try my compiled version May 10 15:13:01 well, does it have to show in -ao help if it's disabled? May 10 15:13:08 where I can take it? May 10 15:13:22 btw without audio my video started to play smoothly May 10 15:13:24 mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/binaries/ May 10 15:13:27 i think May 10 15:13:32 thank you May 10 15:13:52 but without audio you don't notice what fps it is May 10 15:14:42 btw. you have to use -ao gst -ac mp3dec or something May 10 15:14:47 KotCzarny: do you have a diff of your changes against mplayer svn? May 10 15:14:52 top shows that mplayer eats up to 90% on the most computationaly intensive scenes May 10 15:15:17 ph5: just find os2007 in the sources May 10 15:15:34 ph5: it's in 2-3 locations at most May 10 15:15:55 ph5: and as i said it's not stable with gst May 10 15:16:29 ph5: and you need patched kernel for 400/133 dsp mode :) May 10 15:16:56 otherwise there is no gain from using dsp for audio May 10 15:16:58 400/133? May 10 15:17:08 KotCzarny, you made the patch or it available from another source? :) May 10 15:17:10 zap: cpu/dsp mhz May 10 15:17:19 whats by default? May 10 15:17:34 qwerty: it's a simple if() {} to comment out May 10 15:17:52 Ah, ok thanks. I'll take a look when I redownload kernel again. May 10 15:18:02 zap: 165/something, 330/220 when dynamic dsp task is in use, 400/133 when not May 10 15:18:12 http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo/ <- O_o May 10 15:18:31 KotCzarny: and what that kernel patch does? May 10 15:18:41 locks at 400/133 forever? May 10 15:18:42 Navi, you found it!. I love you :D May 10 15:18:49 I didn't find it May 10 15:18:51 zap: replaces 330/220 with 400/133 May 10 15:18:56 Navi, ah ok. May 10 15:19:00 :)) May 10 15:19:04 buy-buy batteries May 10 15:19:14 They'll probably release an image soon May 10 15:19:14 ? May 10 15:19:22 zap: not necessarily May 10 15:19:25 the voltage is the same May 10 15:19:29 they have osso-browser on there May 10 15:19:30 it doesn't lock to highest clock May 10 15:19:33 but the current is larger May 10 15:19:35 and ARM power management is better than DSP power management May 10 15:19:42 osso-browser-ui May 10 15:19:58 when idling it uses same 165/something mode May 10 15:20:00 hmm, so DSP is actually under-frequenced? May 10 15:20:05 Who wants to join me in updating to diablo beta? May 10 15:20:18 igor stoppa wrote once that it might not make a difference because at 400MHz the ARM can idle longer May 10 15:20:20 i will pass diable for a month or two for now May 10 15:20:35 "Despite all the controversy over Microsoft using Silverlight to take over the rich internet market from Adobe Flash, the software giant seems to be not even trying. In fact, even most Microsoft web sites are using Flash instead of Silverlight." May 10 15:20:38 Hehe x 2 May 10 15:20:49 :) May 10 15:21:12 qwerty <-- crossing to the dark side (tm) May 10 15:21:22 yep, SilverLight is just a cunning step from M$ to force Adobe make flash opensource May 10 15:21:22 Hehe, I'm going for it. Forget apt, I'm gonna DTA the packages and disable the lifeguard. May 10 15:21:24 lol May 10 15:21:42 http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/a-pleasant-surprise/ May 10 15:21:48 I saw that May 10 15:22:03 ah May 10 15:22:30 Too much hassle for me, moving the archives folder, I'm just gonna dpkg -i --force-all *.deb :/ May 10 15:22:42 lol May 10 15:22:45 hehe May 10 15:23:10 If Windows was famous for it's ping-of-death, N810 is famous for its ping-of-life May 10 15:23:13 I was just going to symlink the cache for the sake of convenience May 10 15:23:56 http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/feature-engineer-builds-portable-wooden-snes-runs-starfox-video- May 10 15:24:00 heh May 10 15:25:31 Yeah May 10 15:25:50 KotCzarny: I found the "2007SE" check in ao_gst.c and ad_dspmp3.c, did I miss something? May 10 15:26:06 ph5: that's probably it May 10 15:26:15 The Bush administration on Friday urged a federal appeals court to stop meatpackers from testing all their animals for mad cow disease, but a skeptical judge questioned whether the government has that authority. May 10 15:26:16 i don't remember the exact code May 10 15:26:24 but it was checking for os2006 or 2007 May 10 15:26:32 then disabling/enabling some things May 10 15:26:40 For 4 years now, I am getting all the US news via dailyrotten May 10 15:26:44 ok, thanks. will try like that. May 10 15:33:00 KotCzarny: No luck with your mplayer as well May 10 15:33:09 how are you playing it? May 10 15:33:17 /root/mplayer -ao gst -ac mp3dec *.avi May 10 15:33:38 what is the error then? May 10 15:33:40 Forced audio codec: mp3dec May 10 15:33:40 Cannot find codec for audio format 0x55. May 10 15:33:45 afaik 0x55 is mp3 May 10 15:34:13 let me check on my nokia May 10 15:34:23 ah! May 10 15:34:31 the mplayer I have by default says: May 10 15:34:33 Selected audio codec: [dspmp3] afm: dspmp3 (MP3 audio pass-through for Nokia 770) May 10 15:36:37 ahh, sorry, dspmp3 May 10 15:36:38 :) May 10 15:37:24 mplayer -ao help does not display dspmp3 May 10 15:37:26 Are there ways to use dsp for video? May 10 15:37:43 rst: yes, if you write task :) May 10 15:37:54 what is task? May 10 15:37:56 lardman was working on it afair May 10 15:38:15 and lcuk will be :> May 10 15:38:20 heh May 10 15:38:39 * pH5 wishes somebody would leak the super secret IVA specs. May 10 15:38:45 * RST38h tried converting video with tablet-encode yesterday but the result is unwatchable May 10 15:39:05 Because your mencoder is broken? May 10 15:39:16 http://dspgateway.sourceforge.net/pub/index.php?Page=FAQ May 10 15:39:18 Don't think so May 10 15:39:28 Or because you used a default preset? May 10 15:39:34 I'll add support for N810 to my tinyavi tool May 10 15:39:38 Looked rather like the default compression ration was too high May 10 15:39:44 * RST38h used "best" preset May 10 15:39:50 hehe May 10 15:39:52 Best is still low. May 10 15:39:58 rst, there is mplayer preset i think May 10 15:40:01 Best was looking real ugly May 10 15:40:13 Well, I will play with mencoder settings May 10 15:40:16 "best" is the best that the shipped media player can do afair. May 10 15:40:27 mplayer can do better thanks to ssvb May 10 15:40:34 Just check the readme and set a new preset May 10 15:40:47 480px horizontal, 1200Kbps should do it OK May 10 15:40:59 * qwerty12 is installing the debs to diablo now May 10 15:41:02 The regular presets are intended for mediaserv May 10 15:41:16 Since the network overhead impacts maximum video playback quality. May 10 15:41:32 * GeneralAntilles is too. May 10 15:41:38 Cool May 10 15:41:47 Nice, they include a Chinese font now too May 10 15:42:04 ah May 10 15:42:33 and gcc is installing on my tablet? :/ May 10 15:43:38 you did *.deb May 10 15:43:40 didn't you? May 10 15:43:41 ;) May 10 15:43:57 KotCzarny, yes May 10 15:44:09 now take the pain like a man May 10 15:44:11 Interesting that gcc is included though May 10 15:44:12 :> May 10 15:44:32 I bet im gonna get s***f***** though by no free space May 10 15:44:42 yup May 10 15:44:43 :) May 10 15:44:51 you still didn't cloned the os? May 10 15:44:56 nah May 10 15:45:02 I'll just reflash :) May 10 15:45:07 feel the pain then May 10 15:45:08 :) May 10 15:45:29 I plan on reflashing either way when diablo final comes out :) May 10 15:45:29 "Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the things they make it easier to do don't need to be done." May 10 15:45:29 - Andy Rooney, writer and commentator (1919 - ) May 10 15:45:30 :> May 10 15:47:29 bollox, my N800 white screened May 10 15:47:39 Time to reflash :p May 10 15:47:43 ;) May 10 15:47:50 clone it :P May 10 15:48:17 Be good for a demo unit, all white screen :p May 10 15:49:32 Kot: And the guy is right May 10 15:49:50 rst: which one and where? May 10 15:50:08 Andy Rooney May 10 15:50:16 who is that? May 10 15:50:24 ahm May 10 15:50:25 ok May 10 15:50:26 :) May 10 15:50:28 You have just quoted him May 10 15:50:44 my short time memory skipped to another topic already May 10 15:50:46 lol May 10 15:50:56 The weird part is, this quote applies not only to computers in general but also to a lot of "computer technologies" May 10 15:51:31 the question is 'what's need to be done' May 10 15:51:32 ;) May 10 15:51:47 qwerty12, you tried to upgrade? May 10 15:51:59 Kot: A datapad a la StarTrek May 10 15:52:03 Navi, Yes, I did it using dodgy dpkg method May 10 15:52:09 I'm gonna do it proper way now. May 10 15:52:13 :P May 10 15:52:17 Kot: As sad as it is, Apple is closer than anybody else to that May 10 15:52:35 GeneralAntilles, how far have you got? May 10 15:52:59 heh, i just like comp as a tool for communicating and doing some scripts May 10 15:53:29 what do you need scripts for? May 10 15:53:48 for mass downloading pics from the internet May 10 15:53:51 for example May 10 15:54:26 For example mass amounts of porn May 10 15:54:34 lmao May 10 15:54:41 i use google for porn May 10 15:54:42 :) May 10 15:54:56 Although I hate to admit, I was thinking same as forge May 10 15:54:58 Oh please internet whiz, teach me too! May 10 15:54:59 Kot: See, you should skip at least one thing you use computers for =) May 10 15:55:25 i was thinking about becoming a carpenter ;) May 10 15:55:32 Kot: I deally you should draw a crude picture of vagina with your finger and instantly get all the porn in the world =) May 10 15:55:34 Qwerty, computers are best utilized when downloading/watching/distributing porn! May 10 15:55:38 but then i would start thinking about automatization of work ;) May 10 15:55:45 forge, lol :D May 10 15:56:01 It's what internet is at it's best also! May 10 15:56:31 Kot: yea, just make it bring up porn all the time, no matter what you do to it? =) May 10 15:56:41 :) May 10 15:56:59 Like someone once said, "take away all the porn from the internet and only one page will be left. one page that says bring back the porn!" May 10 15:57:04 Qwerty, on another topic, started updating to Diablo yet ? May 10 15:57:13 Yea, I'm trying again :) May 10 15:57:35 Neato, i wanna hear if there's anything funfun added or changed May 10 15:57:47 Lots, forge. May 10 15:58:04 Awwww, awwww, make a list with lot's of pics of it!!! May 10 15:58:36 http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo/ May 10 15:58:47 Theres your list :p May 10 15:58:48 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3054270.ece May 10 15:58:49 Well i saw THAT! May 10 15:58:50 lol May 10 15:59:04 No more boner! May 10 15:59:06 That's what's changed. . . . May 10 15:59:22 da doing doing doing May 10 15:59:35 "he does not seem to be ready for anything, anywhere." May 10 15:59:36 ;) May 10 15:59:39 Interesting +initfs-flasher 0.95.11-200817maemo2 May 10 15:59:40 +kernel-diablo-flasher 2.6.21-200817maemo2 May 10 16:00:05 still 2.6.21 ? May 10 16:00:06 I suppose that answers the question as to whether kernel and initfs updates will be done through ssu May 10 16:00:06 bleah. May 10 16:01:14 Cool, but it's a bit risky too imho. May 10 16:01:54 "The Army lacks knowledge about heraldry. Coats of arms containing lions without genitalia were given to those who betrayed the Crown." May 10 16:01:54 lol May 10 16:02:10 Reset by peer on osso-notes. . . . May 10 16:02:19 * RST38h chokes on his tea May 10 16:02:46 * qwerty12 does the heimlich May 10 16:03:25 Kot: British? May 10 16:03:27 nope May 10 16:03:32 but i like funny stories May 10 16:03:33 :) May 10 16:03:37 Dutch? May 10 16:03:44 nope May 10 16:03:53 as a hint i use latin2 charset May 10 16:04:45 Can I guess? May 10 16:05:02 nope May 10 16:05:03 :) May 10 16:05:06 Aww :( :P May 10 16:05:15 I'm 95% sure I know too May 10 16:05:17 Sweden! May 10 16:05:21 I knew it! May 10 16:05:26 Third try May 10 16:05:38 sweden uses latin2? May 10 16:05:48 Eeh, they don't May 10 16:05:51 ;) May 10 16:06:15 .pl May 10 16:06:20 to cut the chase May 10 16:06:20 Ah so truu May 10 16:06:34 We were forced to cut the lions willy off with the aid of a computer, he added. May 10 16:06:36 KotCzarny, I swear down I knew it :( May 10 16:06:49 See, that guy was right about computers! May 10 16:06:56 :) May 10 16:09:04 3g iphone is coming - I guess we should all brace for impact on itt forums... May 10 16:09:17 Disable posting May 10 16:09:22 Only thing I like about iphone is sound of quake 3 :/ May 10 16:09:32 qwerty: make a mp3 May 10 16:09:35 problem solved May 10 16:09:36 :) May 10 16:09:43 :P May 10 16:10:07 GA: Better - make i.phone a curse word and make system replace it with asterisks May 10 16:10:40 even better i.anything May 10 16:10:41 This method is almost surgical in its precision May 10 16:11:06 KotCzarny, now now, we don't want to upset mac fans May 10 16:11:13 why? May 10 16:11:17 are there any mac users? May 10 16:11:18 :> May 10 16:11:33 Who knows, they are an minority anyway :P MUAHAHAHAHAHAZ May 10 16:11:41 :) May 10 16:12:11 http://reallifecomics.com/archive/001122.html May 10 16:12:35 read the next one too May 10 16:12:39 lmao, heartbroken? :p May 10 16:12:46 Mac fans are upset by definition May 10 16:13:15 'cause nobody shares their passion. Pretty much like Amiga fans of old. May 10 16:13:44 once again, next release gets leaked. I feel sorry for that blog poster. Thank God for people like Benson though. May 10 16:14:05 woo May 10 16:14:06 leaks May 10 16:14:09 Hmm, they include initfs-flasher as a package, is it fanoush's initfs flasher? May 10 16:14:31 No, qwerty12. May 10 16:14:35 "leaks" May 10 16:14:42 Thanks. May 10 16:14:50 setting up at the moment May 10 16:15:22 Good thing is that we shouldn't have to reflash for final Diablo, according to Mara, he updated older Diablo to new one. May 10 16:15:38 qwerty: i think it's not the case for you :> May 10 16:16:02 Hehe, that's true. I wonder how long I'm gonna last :P :D May 10 16:16:06 Heh May 10 16:16:50 * qwerty12 keeps ******* myself when screen powers down :/ May 10 16:17:06 * KotCzarny yawns May 10 16:17:27 * qwerty12 pours water over KotCzarny into shocking him into staying awake May 10 16:17:46 double screen protects me from such accidents May 10 16:17:55 * KotCzarny continues to yawn May 10 16:17:59 lol May 10 16:18:00 Damn May 10 16:18:05 mce is now entirely broken May 10 16:18:09 No powerbutton, wwo! May 10 16:18:18 Gangster! May 10 16:18:54 GeneralAntilles, it may just be mce symlinks are broken. I had that problem with powerlaunch juggling :/ May 10 16:19:12 stupid powerlaunch May 10 16:19:17 Caused me nothing but trouble lately. May 10 16:19:31 Ha May 10 16:19:42 rm the mce symlinks in rc2 and rc5 and relink them to the scripts in init.d folder May 10 16:19:43 Huh May 10 16:19:52 lele, is that your mac? May 10 16:19:56 Erm, I guess I'm running Diablo. . . . May 10 16:20:02 more like ipv6 addy May 10 16:20:16 mac is 6 bytes May 10 16:20:21 mmk May 10 16:20:23 ipv6 autocofig May 10 16:20:47 so it includes my macaddress as well May 10 16:20:48 diablo has a package called osso-ipv6 so I don't need to flash kernel for ipv6 ;) May 10 16:20:52 hopefully May 10 16:21:09 Woot, installed, now rebooting :) May 10 16:21:13 Wuut May 10 16:21:21 Is there a new theme ? May 10 16:21:36 No idea, I'm waiting for it to start. May 10 16:21:42 sshot pls May 10 16:21:43 :) May 10 16:21:53 <3 May 10 16:22:22 2 email options are there :D May 10 16:22:25 modest I guess May 10 16:22:36 KotCzarny, I have no screenshot program installed May 10 16:22:54 When I last used Diablo, there weren't any new themes May 10 16:23:05 only a rehashed Echo theme May 10 16:23:20 GeneralAntilles, mce works fine but application manager does not. May 10 16:23:29 Modest should be the default on diablo May 10 16:23:34 Yeah May 10 16:23:46 It _is_ the default May 10 16:23:48 Oh how i wish i had uptodate tablet :/ May 10 16:24:13 All the cool stuff happends on the 8xx series :( May 10 16:24:14 unless they decided to pull it out May 10 16:24:29 Yah May 10 16:24:32 The version number is 3.2008.18-11 May 10 16:24:47 Eh . . . MicroB didn't update May 10 16:24:51 Time for round 2 May 10 16:24:54 Does Modest even work? =) May 10 16:24:58 apt-get update? May 10 16:25:00 er May 10 16:25:02 Of course, RST38h. May 10 16:25:10 Modest works wonders even on my 770 <3 May 10 16:25:14 [I know it completely breaks Nokia Backup by using @ characters in its XML config file] May 10 16:25:31 Ah, I know whats wrong. May 10 16:25:34 ? May 10 16:25:58 "last line is malformed :/" May 10 16:27:16 w00t, fixed it May 10 16:27:52 cool May 10 16:27:52 Gonna flash my internal clean and start over. May 10 16:27:54 how May 10 16:28:07 GeneralAntilles, I did the same. It works well. May 10 16:28:20 I'd flash right now but I'm in the middle of an online browser rpg with it May 10 16:28:22 You have to move the apt cache? May 10 16:28:33 Navi iz so kool May 10 16:28:38 i kno rite? May 10 16:30:33 They have changed legal message. They should take the hint and include my mod instead ;) May 10 16:31:22 You have enough space to do it on internal flash, qwerty12? May 10 16:31:39 Yes, but I moved archives for good message May 10 16:31:59 s/message/measure May 10 16:32:10 I'm uploading screenshots. May 10 16:33:12 Sweet May 10 16:35:00 I've uploaded two :P May 10 16:35:06 Want a screenie of modest? May 10 16:35:10 Okay May 10 16:35:15 I'm reflashing May 10 16:35:34 Oh bugger, now my tablet is rebooting itself everytime it tries to connect on gtalk May 10 16:35:47 Oh the joy's of HE May 10 16:36:17 Folks are you installing Diablo firmware image or what? May 10 16:36:25 From packages May 10 16:36:31 Deb files, add the repo and install that software version package May 10 16:36:33 modest still completely locks up when trying to open my gmail inbox with 160k messages :( May 10 16:36:41 I'm uploading email screenies now. May 10 16:37:00 SSU in a manner of speaking, RST38h. May 10 16:37:31 RST38h, http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/a-pleasant-surprise/ May 10 16:37:45 wow May 10 16:40:33 qwerty: The really big questions is "does it support a2dp?" =) May 10 16:41:08 No idea, my headset is dead. May 10 16:41:40 But because it's you, I'll check it out :p May 10 16:42:17 thanks =) May 10 16:42:44 1 more screenie to upload. May 10 16:45:05 ok, all my 5 screenies uploaded. enjoy. May 10 16:45:21 Where :o May 10 16:45:27 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=180010#post180010 May 10 16:45:31 Tack May 10 16:45:36 RST38h, checking... May 10 16:45:51 Hi May 10 16:46:18 looks similiar May 10 16:46:20 :) May 10 16:46:42 hey.. did you guys just get a system message saying I changed my status to "online"? May 10 16:46:49 KotCzarny, it is mostly May 10 16:46:52 unixSnob, no May 10 16:47:08 RST38h, doesn't mention A2DP. Still says HFP,HSP May 10 16:47:08 I'm using a new irc client.. not sure what it shows.. - ah, okay, thanks qwerty12 May 10 16:47:49 aha May 10 16:48:11 No a2dp, just checked in media player. May 10 16:48:17 * RST38h wonders if the finger keyboard still uninvokable May 10 16:48:26 pity about a2dp... May 10 16:48:30 RST38h, that's one of the bugs that was fixed. May 10 16:48:37 cooooooooooooooooool May 10 16:48:37 Why, RST38h, not something that was planned. :P May 10 16:48:40 still no 3d libs? May 10 16:48:53 It's a dot release, not a major OS upgrade. May 10 16:49:01 RST38h, look at my screenshot of new keyboard panel ;) May 10 16:49:02 GA: I have got a2dp headphones and no a2dp devices to use them with May 10 16:49:11 RST38h, same here :D May 10 16:49:14 Hax the N800 May 10 16:49:16 They did not incude a2dp with e70 and n810 also misses it :( May 10 16:49:20 A2DP isn't too hard to get working May 10 16:50:09 qwerty: the screenshot indicates a workaround, not a fix to the invokation mechanism ;))) May 10 16:50:41 True but it's an hint ;). I'll see if I can check. May 10 16:51:00 Anyone who's involved with the port of GPXView to maemo: You rock. It works *so* nicely. May 10 16:51:22 harbaum isn't on here afaik May 10 16:51:25 Ug May 10 16:51:31 Connection reset by peer. . . . May 10 16:51:32 again May 10 16:51:42 Stupid peer! May 10 16:51:56 GeneralAntilles, Download the packages using DTA on computer and symlink archives to mmc and place debs in there ;) May 10 16:52:05 It's how I did it successfully as you can see May 10 16:52:18 Stupid peer May 10 16:52:21 I hate 'em May 10 16:52:26 heh May 10 16:53:09 Stupid l10n updates. May 10 16:58:49 RST38h, I just launched finger keyboard by pressing thumb May 10 17:00:17 oh yeah May 10 17:00:26 the thumb keyboard comes out really easy in diablo :P May 10 17:00:36 I wasn't aable to open it with the stylus at all May 10 17:00:45 with the build I used a while ago May 10 17:01:36 Perfect May 10 17:01:50 I couldn t even open it with a finger before May 10 17:02:01 and you can set the center rocker to open the stylus keyboard May 10 17:02:12 Lol, do American Nokia employees all live in TX? :P May 10 17:02:13 'cuz it's impossible to open it unless you set it to open always May 10 17:02:18 well this one does not help on n810 :) May 10 17:02:27 lol May 10 17:02:36 Indeed it doesn't May 10 17:02:39 well May 10 17:02:43 qwerty12, maybe May 10 17:02:52 sometimes maybe you would prefer not opening hw kb? May 10 17:03:02 We had a few assembly plants here, but they all shut down and moved over to Mexico May 10 17:03:09 KotCzarny, ... May 10 17:03:10 Ah, interesting May 10 17:03:18 ;) May 10 17:03:20 The rocker is on the slider May 10 17:03:40 I'll fake a southern accent and move to da dirty south :P May 10 17:03:57 if you open up the slider to use the stylus keyboard, you might as well just use the hw keyboard May 10 17:04:06 s/open/have to open/ May 10 17:04:06 Navi meant: if you have to open up the slider to use the stylus keyboard, you might as well just use the hw keyboard May 10 17:04:38 isn't thumb osk opene by thumb press? May 10 17:04:42 at least in theory May 10 17:05:02 Yeah, it's easy to do it in diablo :P May 10 17:10:44 I need to use my own hack to change the device name... May 10 17:15:39 Another screenie being uploaded from help file with some tiny, obvious info about ssu May 10 17:18:20 How do we update from the diablo repo? May 10 17:18:38 how do we add it to the repo sources to begin with? May 10 17:18:50 Update notfifer just tells you once a week when you can update. The install process installs a new sources.list May 10 17:19:07 :/ May 10 17:19:16 I mean, how do I go from chinook -> diablo May 10 17:19:31 Ah, N800 or N810? May 10 17:19:41 N800 May 10 17:20:22 Add this in application managers source.list - deb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/chinook/ ./ and run apt-get update and run apt-get install osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked May 10 17:20:47 why does it say 'unlocked' ? May 10 17:21:11 No idea, theres a standard one but I went for the unlocked one as recommended by mvs May 10 17:21:53 maybe they are preparing for the gsm tablet ? May 10 17:21:56 :> May 10 17:22:04 lol May 10 17:22:09 a wimax package did install May 10 17:23:07 hello May 10 17:23:16 anyone around? May 10 17:23:18 * qwerty12 really needs to move archives directory back May 10 17:23:40 I'm trying to figure out where I can put a file on my N810 so that I can see it in the file browser May 10 17:23:51 /home/user/MyDocs May 10 17:23:53 (im trying to upload a cert file so I can enter it into the cert manage) May 10 17:23:57 hmmmmmmmmm May 10 17:24:13 For internal memory. Internal memory card is /media/mmc2. External card is /media/mmc1 May 10 17:30:28 Bye May 10 17:42:03 hola May 10 17:53:01 hoola May 10 17:54:03 I'm happy. I'm writing from a usb keyboard plugged to the tablet May 10 17:54:20 yay May 10 17:54:22 it works perfectly, even if the layout is not US May 10 17:54:45 what power rating? May 10 17:54:52 70mA May 10 17:55:00 but I'm using a self-powered hub May 10 17:55:51 btw... what could happens If the consumption exceeds the maximum 100mA allowed by the tablet? May 10 17:56:07 nothing much May 10 17:56:11 Wow, resizing applets is so much more responsive May 10 17:56:12 it simply won't work May 10 17:56:13 :) May 10 17:56:26 aha, but I can't damage the unit? May 10 17:57:12 Hum, I can see that the keyboard leds do not lit May 10 17:57:23 and bloqnum does not work May 10 17:57:40 in fact, the whole number keypad does not work May 10 17:57:50 ugh, lame May 10 17:58:13 it is not an issue to me. I never used it :-) May 10 17:58:49 i think it's pc that turns leds on/off May 10 17:59:17 yes, KotCzarny , it is May 10 17:59:34 but it does it well under linux/ubuntu with the same keyboard May 10 17:59:42 and not under maemo OS2008 May 10 17:59:49 but it is not important May 10 17:59:53 :) May 10 18:01:20 Hmm.. is it possible to add new keyboard layouts? May 10 18:01:26 I'm thinking on Dvorak May 10 18:04:55 Yes, jdiaz May 10 18:07:17 hi pupnik May 10 18:17:06 GeneralAntilles: what are the magic words to google? May 10 18:17:36 Hmm ... dvorak maemo bluetooth keyboard May 10 18:21:10 nnnnnnn96¡ May 10 18:21:21 almost May 10 18:21:22 ;) May 10 18:21:23 sorry, that was my daughter May 10 18:31:00 http://www.barechoons.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27 May 10 18:31:01 :) May 10 18:41:54 Morning, all May 10 18:43:23 hrw|gone: http://paste-it.net/public/fc198eb/ May 10 18:54:00 hi May 10 18:55:29 hey guys anyone got diablo working here? May 10 18:56:11 Yes May 10 18:56:48 do the chinook apps work with it? May 10 18:57:18 AIUI, yes. May 10 18:59:09 They only break binary compatibility between large versions (2.x -> 3.x -> 4.x) May 10 18:59:21 does diablo even exist? May 10 18:59:34 some religions insist on that May 10 18:59:35 ;) May 10 19:00:15 :p May 10 19:00:34 Maybe he was just referring the game ? May 10 19:02:14 nah, the version of maemo May 10 19:02:29 I saw him on Doctor Who May 10 19:09:20 Jaffa: did you do it? May 10 19:09:32 if so, did you need to backup all your apps/data May 10 19:09:41 or did you do it over the air as it seems it can be done that way May 10 19:09:59 EruditeHermit: No, I said "AIUI". I've not done it myself, since I have no access to Diablo May 10 19:11:31 timeless, are you around? May 10 19:16:22 *the* timeless of mozilla.org? May 10 19:17:10 probably May 10 19:17:11 :) May 10 19:17:23 is he famous? May 10 19:17:48 famous enough for me :P May 10 19:17:49 but IT works for nokia's brower May 10 19:18:11 what dod you need from him :p May 10 19:18:53 wrt firefox, just got a build failure :P May 10 20:30:27 Hi :). I write from diablo. For dsp hackers, check out ftd from diablo repo... f***in brilliant... May 10 20:43:22 hi May 10 20:44:42 does someone ca help me to install libglade2 on my 770 (OS2006) ? May 10 20:46:58 hello guys May 10 20:50:09 can somebody a answer a question? May 10 20:50:44 is really that exists a version of OS 2008 for developers? May 10 20:51:54 rafael: for 770 you mean? May 10 20:52:20 rafael: maemo-sdk? +) May 10 20:52:40 N800 May 10 20:54:02 rafael: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/ May 10 20:54:04 oh, I thought you might have ment the hacker edition for 770 May 10 20:54:29 rafael: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_4_chinook_sdk.html i mean +) May 10 20:55:31 jjo: No problem, thanks May 10 20:56:32 Still no working softpoweroff in Diablo. :( May 10 20:58:08 sorry for my ignorance smooth, however, this version chinook come with ssh, vi and various tools? May 10 20:58:50 uhm? just install these yourself May 10 20:59:00 onto chinook May 10 20:59:15 rafael: i don't really know, but those are easy installed May 10 20:59:31 rafael: and not only in sdk-versions May 10 21:00:11 rafael: if u just need some development tools, not full sdk - u can browse through maemo.org and install them May 10 21:00:14 uhmm... May 10 21:01:46 I'm already installed OS 2008 on my device May 10 21:02:47 but, I read about this (that have a version only for developers) May 10 21:02:58 for this, I make a question May 10 21:03:56 yet another sb2 installation problem.. I have two Kubuntu Hardy 8.04 PCs and when I try to install maemo sdk+ to the second PC the /opt/maemo/tools/arm-2005q3 directory is missing. The first PC everything installs and works fine. Any ideas why that dir could be missing? May 10 21:04:27 I have followed the instructions from: http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install.html May 10 21:09:13 GeneralAntilles: hey, when you upgraded did it uninstall all chinook packages? May 10 21:09:24 GeneralAntilles: I get 366 to upgradeand 800 odd to remove May 10 21:09:45 It installed Diablo packages. May 10 21:09:49 Not Chinook packages. May 10 21:10:00 GeneralAntilles: your chinook extra stuff like xournal May 10 21:10:10 Two biggest failing points are running out of space and network failures to the server. May 10 21:10:40 Chinook and Diablo are (mostly) backwards and forwards compatible. May 10 21:10:56 and did you get 800 packages to remove? May 10 21:10:56 So just add Chinook Extras separately to get all of the chinook packages. May 10 21:11:02 It was a lot May 10 21:11:09 Mostly l10n stuff May 10 21:11:27 as they moved to per-language packages instead of per-application. May 10 21:11:34 did it remove any apps you'd installed previously from extras? or was it all l10n? May 10 21:11:45 I did it on a clean install. May 10 21:11:49 oh May 10 21:12:08 It choked on my messy install due to a broken powerlaunch install May 10 21:12:12 messed up symlinks May 10 21:12:14 also how did you get passed /var/cache/apt/archives not having enough space? May 10 21:13:09 ln -s /media/mmc1/var/cache/apt/archives /var/cache/apt/archives May 10 21:13:17 Just delete it after your done upgrading May 10 21:13:32 Also, make sure you delete the audio/video files and documentation stuff May 10 21:13:40 as that's 40MB right there. May 10 21:13:43 And remake original archives folder. May 10 21:13:50 after deleting May 10 21:13:52 yeah May 10 21:13:55 ok May 10 21:14:12 ftd is my favourite program on diablo atm May 10 21:14:19 qwerty12_N800: how is the flash plugin on diablo? May 10 21:14:29 is it faster? May 10 21:14:29 Haven't tried it May 10 21:15:30 Has anyone sent a nitro core dump yet? May 10 21:15:42 Iwish that my backup application worked May 10 21:15:46 it keeps crashing when I try it May 10 21:15:56 :( May 10 21:17:01 A lot more init progs in diablo May 10 21:18:48 mce.ini file is same to me, just has more colours for n8100 May 10 21:18:53 s/n810 May 10 21:20:53 No softpoweroff. :< May 10 21:21:07 It was fixed Nokia-side back in December, too. :\ May 10 21:22:02 heh May 10 21:24:16 * qwerty12_N800 cant wait til nxt friday May 10 21:24:52 an alternative to vi for editing files from the xterm in the tablet? May 10 21:25:02 vim? May 10 21:25:06 :P May 10 21:25:12 ^^ May 10 21:25:14 not so similar :-) May 10 21:25:17 mcedit May 10 21:25:18 :) May 10 21:25:19 nano May 10 21:25:19 is emacs ported? May 10 21:25:24 yes May 10 21:25:27 or other emacs-like? May 10 21:25:29 jdiaz: that'd be mad May 10 21:25:36 not enough bucky bits May 10 21:25:51 yes, I'm not interested in the whole emacs, only in its usual keyboard shortcuts May 10 21:26:03 that is, ctrl abuse? May 10 21:26:07 yes May 10 21:26:11 hehehe May 10 21:26:20 vi works about perfectly on the N800 May 10 21:26:27 GeneralAntilles: vim too May 10 21:26:42 I need to set proper insert mode (with editing) May 10 21:26:42 yes, it does, but I never get accustomed to vi May 10 21:26:45 and arrows May 10 21:26:59 jdiaz: a good time to start May 10 21:27:02 always require a cheatsheet at hand May 10 21:27:22 I'm more emacs inclined May 10 21:27:35 just remember i, escape and :wq May 10 21:27:39 there is a feature of emacs I use almost daily May 10 21:27:40 That's all you need to get by. May 10 21:27:48 for one his own May 10 21:27:51 dd is nice too May 10 21:27:53 and x May 10 21:27:53 sum1 ported emacs search ~itt May 10 21:27:57 dd for line del May 10 21:27:59 GeneralAntilles, sure, but there is also the always neccesary cut-copy-paste May 10 21:28:00 GeneralAntilles: not to mention / May 10 21:28:01 and x for char del May 10 21:28:03 # May 10 21:28:10 {, } and. May 10 21:28:12 I never remember how to copy paste in vim May 10 21:28:15 yep May 10 21:28:23 We're going simple. ;) May 10 21:28:24 jdiaz: V, Y, P May 10 21:28:30 I use terminal copy and paste May 10 21:28:34 v for visual mode May 10 21:28:35 ^ May 10 21:28:44 yank and paste May 10 21:28:46 Er, yes, use qwerty's method. May 10 21:28:52 AStorm, but how do mark the block? May 10 21:29:07 (how do I mark) May 10 21:29:11 jdiaz: visual mode May 10 21:29:24 If you built with mouse support, use the mouse May 10 21:29:37 Navi: don't spoil hi :P May 10 21:29:40 :P May 10 21:29:42 *him May 10 21:29:55 AStorm: oooh! May 10 21:30:05 I love visual mode! May 10 21:30:34 how do I never see it mentioned in the tutoriasl/cheatshets I read until now? May 10 21:30:46 I read the wrong tutorials, I suppose May 10 21:31:05 Well, this makes vi a lot more usable. I'll give it another try :-) May 10 21:31:05 Nothing better than vimtutor May 10 21:31:26 It would be ideal if I could perform some column-oriented tasks May 10 21:31:35 for example, select a rectangular area, and delete it May 10 21:31:43 (in order to delete a column in a table) May 10 21:31:47 jdiaz: ctrl+v May 10 21:31:52 that's block mode May 10 21:32:01 or was it vb May 10 21:32:24 select in it, then delete :) May 10 21:32:41 you are saving my day! May 10 21:32:44 tanks! May 10 21:32:45 in mcedit it's f3, f3, f5 May 10 21:32:46 :) May 10 21:33:06 finally, how can I insert a text in front of several lines May 10 21:33:07 and in vi(m) ctrl+v May 10 21:33:13 (eg: to add a column in a table) May 10 21:33:32 (or commenting out a region of a program) May 10 21:33:33 jdiaz: .s/^/text/ May 10 21:33:44 :s/^/text/ May 10 21:33:50 yes, I knew that one :-) May 10 21:34:05 alt. select an area with visual mode and run that May 10 21:34:13 but what if the insertion point is not the beginning of the line? May 10 21:34:32 jdiaz: visual mode then, plus s :) May 10 21:34:37 (ading a separator between two columns, for example) May 10 21:34:46 ^ matches beginning of selection line May 10 21:35:45 nah, I fail May 10 21:35:54 another special char :) May 10 21:36:49 Hm.. it doesnt work in block mode May 10 21:36:49 :) May 10 21:37:11 ^ matches the beginning of the line, not the block May 10 21:37:30 probably depends on implementation May 10 21:37:40 or /s param May 10 21:38:20 vi for maemo doesn implement undo May 10 21:38:29 does vim for maemo implements it? May 10 21:38:33 probably May 10 21:38:41 because default vi is provided by busybox May 10 21:38:44 Well... May 10 21:39:09 * jdiaz is traveling 15 years back in time... learning vi again May 10 21:40:23 KotCzarny: wow, I didn't think that offloading mp3 decoding to the dsp would make such a big difference in mplayer. too bad seeking practically doesn't work May 10 21:40:31 :) May 10 21:40:32 yeah May 10 21:40:36 nag ssvb May 10 21:40:47 fanoush already included op patch in his kernel May 10 21:41:00 so it's possible to disable 330/220 mode May 10 21:41:41 johnx: What's the latest on the new Debian? May 10 21:42:38 * pH5 echo 1 > /sys/power/op_dsp May 10 21:42:43 pH5: offloading mp3 will help slightly May 10 21:42:51 astorm: more than slightly May 10 21:42:57 esd sucks cpu hard May 10 21:43:00 like 7-10% May 10 21:43:15 AStorm, for inserting a text in front of the block, Ctrl-V, select bloc, press I May 10 21:43:16 esd? this junk needs to die May 10 21:43:28 astorm: no viable alternative for now May 10 21:43:30 btw, vi for maemo doesnt implement v nor ^v May 10 21:43:32 KotCzarny: does it use accel for mixing? May 10 21:43:33 AStorm: and even slightly would help a lot if it's just slightly too slow to play at full framerate :) May 10 21:43:38 framedrops suck visually May 10 21:43:39 luckily, vim does May 10 21:43:44 astorm: nope May 10 21:43:50 it's software May 10 21:43:52 (esd) May 10 21:44:01 KotCzarny: give me pulseaudio then May 10 21:44:11 with speex integer resamler May 10 21:44:19 *resampler May 10 21:44:29 i can give you dsp compiler May 10 21:44:31 :) May 10 21:44:48 AStorm, +1. i like pa. May 10 21:44:53 naah, writing a mixes and not being pais for it... May 10 21:45:16 can't, too much work May 10 21:45:23 :/ May 10 21:45:40 i think ssvb isn't paid by nokia also May 10 21:45:41 :) May 10 21:46:02 KotCzarny, stop being a siren, you know i will be having that dsp compiler soon :P May 10 21:46:10 :> May 10 21:46:22 it'd be fun to write libmad using dsp May 10 21:46:31 astorm: it's a c compiler May 10 21:46:44 KotCzarny: oh really? May 10 21:46:50 and lardman wrote some g711 codec for it May 10 21:46:58 do I have to know somethoing more? May 10 21:47:04 did anybody here try the dsp-flac codec? May 10 21:47:07 i don't know, ask lardman May 10 21:47:12 he is the dsp man here May 10 21:47:12 :) May 10 21:47:25 pH5: not yet? May 10 21:47:27 johnx: You here? May 10 21:47:38 dsp vorbis would be fun too May 10 21:47:47 but May 10 21:47:49 if dsp has enough power May 10 21:47:52 before you go all dandy handy May 10 21:47:59 there is a problem with gst and mplayer May 10 21:48:07 that needs to be addressed first :/ May 10 21:48:08 drop gst May 10 21:48:18 use pulse support of mplayer May 10 21:48:21 or esd compat May 10 21:48:31 how mature is ruby for maemo? May 10 21:48:41 jdiaz: moderately May 10 21:49:11 at least is it actively developed? May 10 21:49:47 dunno, most likely yes May 10 21:49:54 I was just switching from python to ruby in my desktop, when I purchased the n810... May 10 21:50:20 so I guess I still have to do python for a while May 10 21:50:39 * qwerty12_N800 wants to see diablo for sbox :p. newer apt in diablo means I can try synaptic again... May 10 21:50:50 heh, why have you switched to "an inferior language"? ;) May 10 21:51:03 because he want to go RoR ? May 10 21:51:04 :) May 10 21:51:10 *wants May 10 21:51:13 django baby? May 10 21:51:32 I find easier to express myself in ruby than in python. It is more consistent May 10 21:51:39 jdiaz, alterego is the guy who ported it. May 10 21:51:39 i like c May 10 21:51:41 and php May 10 21:51:41 :) May 10 21:51:45 no, it's not :) May 10 21:52:04 KotCzarny: weak typing is the spawn of satan! May 10 21:52:05 He normally haunts around here, but I haven't seen him on in a couple months. May 10 21:52:14 pfft May 10 21:52:19 but i like it more May 10 21:52:25 Punch the keys for gods sake! May 10 21:52:27 than writing 10 functions to do nearly the same May 10 21:52:27 :) May 10 21:52:29 before ruby, python, perl and php, I abused a lot of awk :-) May 10 21:53:12 AStorm: sure it is May 10 21:53:13 jdiaz: do you *reallyc know the, or just tried? May 10 21:53:17 all this ruby bigotry ;-) May 10 21:53:22 elb: elaborate May 10 21:53:30 ah May 10 21:53:50 do you know ruby? May 10 21:54:00 KotCzarny: 10 functions? lol May 10 21:54:06 AStorm, I did not develop any big project in ruby, only daily scripting use. But the same applies to my python habits. And I do prefer ruby May 10 21:54:06 elb: no, I don't May 10 21:54:17 but you're claiming it's not more consistent than Python? May 10 21:54:21 interesting :-P May 10 21:54:32 yes, I am :P May 10 21:54:40 python has some real inconsistencies that ruby doesn't May 10 21:54:42 sorry having spawned a religion war May 10 21:54:53 it's ok May 10 21:54:56 :) May 10 21:55:00 e.g. magic function names, operators which are "overloaded" but can't be re-overloaded, etc. May 10 21:55:02 it's because python is consistent May 10 21:55:17 ruby is almost entirely lacking in such things May 10 21:55:23 it has its own brain damages, don't get me wrong May 10 21:55:24 elb: hmm? magic is well-defined May 10 21:55:30 like closures are over references :-P May 10 21:55:34 which operators are overloaded? May 10 21:55:35 they're well-defined, yes ... but not *consistent* May 10 21:55:45 AStorm, for example I always find my self writing some_string.length in python May 10 21:55:45 elb: they are May 10 21:55:46 [] May 10 21:55:56 all right, I think you're just bigoted, i shouldn't have started May 10 21:55:58 __x - magic name May 10 21:55:59 learn ruby, then we can talk May 10 21:56:06 __x__ - system name May 10 21:56:09 right, I understand that their *naming* is consistent May 10 21:56:14 but their *existence* is not May 10 21:56:34 you want operator+ likein C? :P May 10 21:56:48 or def +(a)? May 10 21:56:49 :P May 10 21:56:52 qwerty12_N800: hey, did it remove busybox and replace it with bash? May 10 21:56:53 no May 10 21:57:03 EruditeHermit, no May 10 21:57:04 but [] is magic syntactic sugar in python which is inconsistent May 10 21:57:21 You can get bash and coreutils though. May 10 21:57:25 I'm not saying python is *bad*, but you really can't claim it's 100% consistent without ignoring some important details May 10 21:57:34 elb: list comprehensions? May 10 21:57:36 qwerty12_N800: it says it wants to remove busybox May 10 21:57:43 :> May 10 21:57:48 I always forget the syntax for getting a string length in python... After failing with some_string.length, I try some_string.len, and then len(some_string).... Even now I don't remember the exact syntax May 10 21:57:50 elb: you mean slicing May 10 21:58:00 that kind of things does not happen to me with ruby May 10 21:58:01 it's consistent in Python 3 now May 10 21:58:06 :) May 10 21:58:12 this is why I said it is more consistent May 10 21:58:12 EruditeHermit, That's odd, although i didn't really look at pkgs to remove May 10 21:58:16 also, the existence of native data types which cannot have methods is inconsistent May 10 21:58:21 qwerty12_N800: and sysvinit May 10 21:58:23 jdiaz: last one is correct May 10 21:58:38 although it could've been a property May 10 21:58:49 oh, and yeah, the stupid external functions to modify some built-in data taypes May 10 21:58:54 another great inconsistency of python May 10 21:58:54 elb: now they can, since py 2.6 May 10 21:58:58 really? I thought that the correct one was length(some_string) May 10 21:58:59 EruditeHermit, That's not right afaik. let me see if busybox pkg is present on diablo May 10 21:59:03 I'm serius May 10 21:59:07 (serious) May 10 21:59:16 johnx: If you get this, I'll catch you later May 10 21:59:18 see what I mean? :-) May 10 21:59:39 anyway, AStorm, you might think about choking back your ruby bigotry until you know something about it ;-) May 10 21:59:57 hehee May 10 21:59:58 it certainly does have some annoying deficiencies, but you might as well know what they are before you start blindly plugging python May 10 22:00:11 (like ... closures over names, not values? hello?) May 10 22:00:12 the only thing I hate in both is broken threading May 10 22:00:13 EruditeHermit, not right. busybox and sysvinit are present on diablo. disable all other repos. May 10 22:00:28 when I need threads, I want them working correctly May 10 22:00:44 jdiaz: May 10 22:00:47 >>> len("abc") May 10 22:00:49 3 May 10 22:01:11 "abc".length => 3 May 10 22:01:16 [1, 2, 3].length => 3 May 10 22:01:16 yes May 10 22:01:44 same here, but with a function for some reason May 10 22:01:45 {:a => 1, :b => 2, :c => 3}.length => 3 May 10 22:01:57 etc. May 10 22:01:58 sorry AStorm, I did not mean that you were reacalling it wrong. I meant *I* was recalling it wrong. May 10 22:02:25 elb: I prefer Haskell syntax more May 10 22:02:40 askHell? May 10 22:02:55 (but not the rest of the language :P) May 10 22:03:07 clean also looks neat May 10 22:03:18 oCaml is ok, but perlish May 10 22:03:40 perl mascot is a caml :) May 10 22:03:41 (actually used these) May 10 22:03:47 qwerty12_N800: did you install a new kernel for it? May 10 22:03:59 jdiaz: noo, never menton that junk May 10 22:04:06 I mean perl May 10 22:04:24 qwerty12_N800: It just finished the upgrade (disablin all other repos fixed the busybox uninstall thing) May 10 22:04:24 wtf May 10 22:04:25 I agree with you in this point May 10 22:04:30 qwerty12_N800: is it safe to reboot? May 10 22:04:32 EruditeHermit, no. rd mode output still lists old one compiled in finland May 10 22:04:47 busybox was upgraded with my install May 10 22:04:47 Should be if everything installed fine May 10 22:04:55 same here May 10 22:04:57 yeah I left perl behind when I discovered that ruby had usable regexp support May 10 22:05:13 yeah, but all these regexes suck May 10 22:05:24 preg_match is nice May 10 22:05:25 :) May 10 22:05:30 as awks and greps are much faster May 10 22:05:37 no, it's slow too May 10 22:05:47 not for my regexps May 10 22:05:48 :) May 10 22:05:55 exponential on some strings May 10 22:06:08 ie. account writing time too May 10 22:06:15 even with well-optimized exps May 10 22:06:16 where do i tell maemo that i want an app running at startup? May 10 22:06:27 /etc/rc2.d/ May 10 22:06:33 or .xsession May 10 22:06:35 or other May 10 22:06:40 use update-rc.d May 10 22:07:19 make the init script 1st :p May 10 22:07:38 there is meant to be an init script with it, but its not starting May 10 22:07:40 does the n810 use flash memory for its root filesystem? May 10 22:07:55 jdiaz: yes May 10 22:08:00 That worries me... May 10 22:08:05 ive been playing with acmonitor (derf) and its not starting after reboot May 10 22:08:06 why? May 10 22:08:07 Why, jdiaz? May 10 22:08:10 What else would it use? May 10 22:08:15 there is not supposedly a limit in the number of times you can write flash? May 10 22:08:23 lcuk, then .xsession May 10 22:08:26 lcuk, version i compiled worked :/ May 10 22:08:27 on normal system though May 10 22:08:27 μhdd? May 10 22:08:29 That's why it uses jffs May 10 22:08:31 2 May 10 22:08:39 jdiaz: yes, quite large May 10 22:08:54 large enough to not having to worry about? May 10 22:08:54 qwerty12_N800, thats what im wondering, i just wanna check where it should live to see if its there but failing.. May 10 22:08:55 jffs2 has wear leveling and all May 10 22:09:05 larger than the life of the device? May 10 22:09:07 for now, yes May 10 22:09:09 There's a limit to the number of hours you can put on a hard drive, too. Especially a small one. ) May 10 22:09:27 jdiaz, even if you do burn it out, you can just boot from SD May 10 22:09:31 and you can move the fs to internal 2GG MMC May 10 22:09:32 i once killed a 10mb section of my massive 240mb quantum fireball May 10 22:09:32 well, speaking of that May 10 22:09:37 or to the card May 10 22:09:41 there is a limit you can run harddrive DAILY May 10 22:09:43 ;) May 10 22:09:49 for some models May 10 22:09:50 qwerty12_N800: it looks like it didn't update it fully. I still have chinook it seems. However now that I look in sources.list.d I don't see the tableteer repos. Where did they go? May 10 22:09:55 lcuk: 240 MB? May 10 22:09:57 aha May 10 22:09:58 small May 10 22:10:00 yer amiga.. May 10 22:10:01 lcuk, run /etc/init.d/acmonitor start and see what it says. May 10 22:10:03 ahh May 10 22:10:04 1st hard drive May 10 22:10:10 those were the days May 10 22:10:17 what worried me is that some day the internal flash gets unusable May 10 22:10:22 i had a massive 10mb dev partition May 10 22:10:23 EruditeHermit, Mine are there :/ May 10 22:10:27 I remember my 50MB hard drive. May 10 22:10:28 and this would render the whole device unusable May 10 22:10:42 jdiaz: unlike hdds, these don't wear out from reading May 10 22:10:48 -sh: /etc/init.d/acmonitor: not found May 10 22:10:59 jdiaz, it wouldn't render the device unusable. May 10 22:11:01 Boot from SD May 10 22:11:04 jdiaz: you can run the / fs from SD card too May 10 22:11:10 and from internal mmc May 10 22:11:16 or external mmc May 10 22:11:17 :) May 10 22:11:20 AStorm, yes, I do know that, but whenever I write something on flash, I feel a bit guilty :-) May 10 22:11:22 only kernel and initrd have to be in flash May 10 22:11:32 astorm: and nolo May 10 22:11:33 ;) May 10 22:11:36 and config partition May 10 22:11:43 so I was being too paranoid, and I better forget about the issue May 10 22:11:43 lcuk, is the script called acmonitor :/? May 10 22:11:43 qwerty12_N800: can you paste me what the lines look like? is it chinook user? May 10 22:11:46 who reflashes thnese two? :P May 10 22:11:58 no, i know what you mean now - there is the acmon script May 10 22:11:59 astorm: firmware update probably :P May 10 22:12:00 EruditeHermit, give me a min May 10 22:12:04 that exists May 10 22:12:25 jdiaz: flash memory isn't as wimpy as 5 years before May 10 22:12:34 and running that runs acmonitor and doesnt fail May 10 22:12:39 Who's gonna add diablo repo to gronmayer for joke :p May 10 22:12:49 heh May 10 22:12:58 empty repos? May 10 22:13:07 Thanks guys, I'm less anxious now about using the flash May 10 22:13:24 lcuk, do the update-rc.d thing then, I think it needs symlinks in run lvl 2 + 5 May 10 22:13:34 jdiaz: of course noatime is a must ;) May 10 22:13:35 Actually, qwerty12_N800, how's it work just adding the Diablo repo instead of changing the chinook one? May 10 22:14:19 GeneralAntilles, No idea, I removed chinook May 10 22:14:26 qwerty12_N800, i did that and its starting and working as expected. but its not starting when i reboot May 10 22:15:00 EruditeHermit, hows your dcc? May 10 22:15:09 lcuk: have you added symlink to /etc/rc2.d/ ? May 10 22:15:09 lcuk, hmm :/. May 10 22:15:10 qwerty12_N800: instructions? May 10 22:15:25 you really think i know how to add symlinks? May 10 22:15:28 AStorm, For what? May 10 22:15:30 Haha May 10 22:15:35 lol May 10 22:15:37 ln -s /soruce/file /dest/file May 10 22:15:39 lcuk == linucks phail :P May 10 22:15:44 jffs2 defaults to noatime? May 10 22:15:46 qwerty12_N800: no idea try it though May 10 22:15:51 qwerty12_N800: for diablo May 10 22:15:56 jdiaz: don't know, mine didn't May 10 22:15:57 :) May 10 22:16:02 but it is now May 10 22:16:03 ;) May 10 22:16:10 http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/a-pleasant-surprise/ May 10 22:16:15 jdiaz: it is mounted noatime by initrd May 10 22:16:16 it is also supported on vfat? May 10 22:16:22 astorm: is it? May 10 22:16:25 jdiaz: noatime? sure May 10 22:16:33 astorm: mount |grep noatime May 10 22:16:36 KotCzarny: it was here,at leas... May 10 22:16:39 change the tableteer update repo to diablo May 10 22:16:43 now on fanoush' May 10 22:16:54 qwerty12_N800: oh dear it restarted while I was doing the upgrade now I have an endless restart loop May 10 22:17:05 hehe May 10 22:17:11 someone is going to reflash now May 10 22:17:12 ;) May 10 22:17:13 Did you kill the life lifeguard? May 10 22:17:17 qwerty12_N800: is it possible to use flasher to boot from a kernel on my desktop? May 10 22:17:18 EruditeHermit: thnatg's why there's ssh rescue mode May 10 22:17:20 As it told you to in the instructions. ;) May 10 22:17:25 EruditeHermit, yes May 10 22:17:26 in fanoush' initrd May 10 22:17:36 EruditeHermit: no May 10 22:17:52 but it may be possible to use qemu-system May 10 22:17:53 GeneralAntilles: slipped my mind =p May 10 22:18:05 KotCzarny, is it enough to add noatime in /etc/mtab? May 10 22:18:09 nope May 10 22:18:16 mtab is generated dynamically May 10 22:18:22 and usually symlkink to /proc/mounts May 10 22:18:23 ;) May 10 22:18:28 but fstab is ignored May 10 22:18:46 i just have changed some script May 10 22:18:59 jdiaz: try checking if it has noatime first May 10 22:19:03 as i may be wrong May 10 22:19:09 and it may be the case for vfat May 10 22:19:12 mtab does not mention noatime May 10 22:19:28 neither mount|grep (as expected) May 10 22:19:42 try mount / -o remount,noatime May 10 22:19:45 Anyone think it's worth me doing app manager legal crap removal for diablo? May 10 22:20:01 qwerty: not yet, i think May 10 22:20:08 wait for final release May 10 22:20:20 unless you contact nokia's guys about it ;) May 10 22:20:24 KotCzarny, ok it worked May 10 22:20:29 good idea, too much svn downloading... May 10 22:21:11 KotCzarny: and I did the same for /media/mmc[12] May 10 22:21:20 then modify scripts May 10 22:21:35 mmc-mount or something May 10 22:21:45 and probably something in /etc/rc2.d/ May 10 22:22:13 AStorm: so it is not possible to recover this? May 10 22:22:24 i don't know why i laugh every time i read word 'braindamaged' May 10 22:22:41 eh: not worth the work May 10 22:22:49 EruditeHermit: you can overwrite kernel and initrd only May 10 22:22:57 and hope for the best May 10 22:22:58 just reflash May 10 22:22:59 :) May 10 22:23:18 +1. installing diablo is a breeze from reflash May 10 22:23:41 mmc-mount mounts the external memories May 10 22:23:45 yes May 10 22:23:52 what for the root filesystem? May 10 22:23:53 I hope Marius still has a job :( May 10 22:24:02 jdiaz: something in rc2.d May 10 22:24:27 qwerty12_N800, he wouldn't post it on a planet syndicated blog if that were an issue. :P May 10 22:24:57 Besides, Nokia wouldn't stick it in a public repo if it were, either May 10 22:25:30 True, but apart from diablo, we uncovered ftd which seems pretty internal to me. but I see your points May 10 22:26:02 Where was ftd? May 10 22:26:20 It was in the diablo repo afaik May 10 22:26:26 or catalogued May 10 22:26:28 Diablo extras? May 10 22:26:39 grep mount /etc/rc2.d/* did not show anything, besides a comment May 10 22:26:48 I don't have that enabled afaik, let me check May 10 22:27:24 jdiaz, then create a script named /etc/init.d/jdiaz-local May 10 22:27:30 yes I do, enabled as maemo extras May 10 22:27:38 and symlink it as a S99-jdizaz-local in rc2.d May 10 22:27:39 :) May 10 22:27:40 gar May 10 22:27:43 that didn't work May 10 22:27:46 reflash required May 10 22:27:50 I see, and I do a remount May 10 22:27:53 I'm glad i found that one though :d, it's fun :p May 10 22:27:58 anything you want May 10 22:28:03 :) May 10 22:28:33 GeneralAntilles, do you know if sticky dpad bug is fixed? May 10 22:28:45 Haven't noticed it May 10 22:28:46 qwerty: use soap? May 10 22:28:48 ;) May 10 22:29:12 GeneralAntilles, same here :). KotCzarny :p May 10 22:30:11 well, it was a productive talk. Gotta sleep now. May 10 22:30:19 good night and thanks everybody! May 10 22:30:25 I may end up going soon (yes, i'm suprised when it happens) so bye in advance if it happens May 10 22:30:26 heh May 10 22:30:28 nite May 10 22:30:30 qwerty12_N800, AStorm: if the flasher kernel boot didn't work, there is no way to recover this? I have to reflash? May 10 22:30:33 Man, I hate that Application manager uses the error sound for it's success events. . . . May 10 22:30:54 ahhhhh, acmonitor is written for bora i believe. running the binary on its own (via putty as root) appears to work and plugging/unplugging will work, but it wont start on startup and if i try "sudo acmonitor" i get a strange error May 10 22:31:06 EruditeHermit, yes. if you have mmc boot, try chroot May 10 22:31:14 EruditeHermit: flasher what didn't work? May 10 22:31:18 lcuk, I compiled chinook version May 10 22:31:19 Oh thank god May 10 22:31:25 AStorm: booting a kernel using flasher May 10 22:31:26 lcuk: what error May 10 22:31:34 EruditeHermit: it can't do that May 10 22:31:38 Application manager no longer refreshes the list for every little misstep May 10 22:31:39 same as this May 10 22:31:39 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14928 May 10 22:31:40 eh: you have borken os, not kernel May 10 22:31:44 it can flash the kernel May 10 22:31:54 GeneralAntilles, lets rejoice! May 10 22:31:55 ...D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up;... May 10 22:32:02 AStorm: it can also boot a kernel from flasher that it loads for one time use May 10 22:32:05 I'd try flashing in fanoush initfs May 10 22:32:23 ftd works fine under chinook as it seems May 10 22:32:23 lcuk: maybe it's not set up yet at this point, or needs some context, hmm May 10 22:32:25 and peeking in what's broke using ssh May 10 22:32:33 lcuk, try normal user or pipe dbus-uuidgen output to file mentioned May 10 22:32:46 AStorm: how do I do that? Is there a page with instructions? May 10 22:32:59 EruditeHermit: just google for fanousn May 10 22:33:16 qwerty12_N800, you say you have chinook sources, there is only one tar available from his site May 10 22:33:51 do i need to use a different make command to build it May 10 22:33:56 There is a source tarball too, it compiles fine in chinook target and works too ;) May 10 22:34:07 hm nice all the retu&tahvo registers seem to be named :) May 10 22:34:15 ahhh right, so you didnt do anything other than build inside the chinook target May 10 22:34:24 yeah :) May 10 22:34:40 the bitch here is that it works.. May 10 22:34:47 it just wont startup May 10 22:34:59 lcuk, my guess it needs ~/.dbus/ or something May 10 22:35:30 lcuk, try jacking the files from my deb and replacing with yours May 10 22:36:03 what are you mangling? May 10 22:36:05 nahhh ill just reinstall the base version and see if it still does same thing, i installed it earlier to see if it worked but never got round to rebooting May 10 22:36:24 ijust ran it, checked it started doing what i expected and made changes May 10 22:38:00 keesj? May 10 22:38:06 what's the n810 survey? May 10 22:38:36 :o May 10 22:40:34 sourceforge downloading system is getting crapper and crapper May 10 22:40:43 It's on the tableteer site, timely. May 10 22:40:49 acmonitor is starting now, it just needed that dbus-uuidgen running May 10 22:41:13 like i said before :/ May 10 22:41:15 w00000t instant fullspeed when i plug in charger :D May 10 22:41:43 yer i know qwerty12_N800 thank you v muchly (and kot as well) i just prefer to know WHY i am running things and that its not just something ive done May 10 22:42:56 lcuk: what about heat? May 10 22:43:07 :). sounds great! ftd can change cpufreq via gui as well. mind sharing source sum time? I don't want conflict with orig acmonitor May 10 22:43:17 what about it? it runs at fullspeed when playing movies for hours so why is this any different May 10 22:44:27 gladly, but its just a hack around writing "ondemand" or "performance" to /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor May 10 22:44:47 acmonitor just gave the framework and timing to run it May 10 22:45:02 qwerty12_N800: does the ftd "Battery Information" work under diablo? May 10 22:45:10 ftd? May 10 22:45:27 field test display May 10 22:45:52 jott, no May 10 22:46:14 lcuk, see diablo thread 4 my screenshots May 10 22:46:27 it has cpufreq control too May 10 22:47:02 ah just found it May 10 22:47:05 then why didnt i know this before - i could have just asked you May 10 22:47:31 i only found out about ftd 2day May 10 22:47:52 and i just fixed minor dependency problems with it and installed it under chinook ,) May 10 22:48:03 so which page are these screenies on and what am i looking for May 10 22:48:04 cool,, but diablo ftw May 10 22:48:53 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17727&page=6 May 10 22:49:05 lcuk: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1651&stc=1&d=1210449331 May 10 22:49:05 look for me saying holy shit May 10 22:50:09 ftd also exists for s60 btw :) May 10 22:50:14 jott, thanks again for fortune :). works nice with conkky May 10 22:50:21 netmonitor? May 10 22:50:43 yeah there is actually one called ftd May 10 22:50:59 but it's like netmonitor May 10 22:51:35 or netmonitor was actually the ftd ;) May 10 22:51:35 my ngage had it for a while. now my w810 has some sort of.one May 10 22:53:25 hah i almost forgot about this one: http://www.mrvfone.com.au/vfone/techtop/netmon/ May 10 22:54:10 best one yet :p May 10 22:55:06 well back to the NIT ftd :) May 10 22:55:13 yep :) May 10 22:55:15 right qwerty12_N800 i see it now, it displays the stats and allows changing, but its not automatic yet is it May 10 22:55:38 i never said it was May 10 22:55:54 no i know May 10 22:55:54 I said it's a gui for changin it May 10 22:56:09 Software Resets: 91 ...hm quite reasonable ;) May 10 22:56:17 looks cool though and better than digging through with console or scp May 10 22:56:44 Also Flash is version 2.50 May 10 22:56:44 Chinook one is 2.35 May 10 22:56:46 nice May 10 22:56:50 but is it faster? May 10 22:56:51 :) May 10 22:57:09 hah probably a bunch of security fixes ;) May 10 22:57:09 :). jott, do you have nokia phoenix dongle? :D May 10 22:57:26 hm no :/ May 10 22:57:46 i really want someone to try our phoenix :( May 10 22:57:52 s/our/out May 10 22:58:46 jott, 1 software reset :p May 10 22:59:18 my lifeguard is still disabled atm though May 10 22:59:55 hmm 1?! :O May 10 23:00:06 cheater! May 10 23:00:11 hmm May 10 23:00:27 yep :). i'd offer screenie but i'm tired of that 2day ;) May 10 23:00:32 i see ftd can lock cpu op modes? May 10 23:00:40 or it's only a view only? May 10 23:00:53 yes as we mentioned 3 times :p May 10 23:01:07 but nothing special actually May 10 23:01:37 also there is suspend-to-mem May 10 23:01:42 whatare other options? May 10 23:01:50 hm this battery information has really a long list of values ... May 10 23:02:12 jott, it works for you? May 10 23:02:12 "Export syslog as googlemaps readable" :) May 10 23:02:15 no May 10 23:02:21 ah :( May 10 23:02:23 but the names are shown.. May 10 23:02:23 does ftd need some deps from diablo or will work standalone? May 10 23:02:31 works standalone May 10 23:02:34 great May 10 23:02:37 :) May 10 23:02:42 just needs minor tweak of control file May 10 23:03:00 (for versions) May 10 23:03:31 eww. ftd icon has xp comp May 10 23:03:53 heh indeed May 10 23:04:02 ugly green/blue May 10 23:04:37 hehe May 10 23:04:57 tutorial home applet crashes for me in diablo May 10 23:05:07 sending nitro report... May 10 23:05:48 hehe they will get spammed with nitro reports the next few days ;) May 10 23:06:07 :) May 10 23:06:11 :D May 10 23:06:33 qwerty12_N800: eh May 10 23:06:39 how'd you get a diablo image? May 10 23:06:47 you dont' May 10 23:06:49 no image just debs May 10 23:06:49 * timely is not used to seeing people metioning nitro May 10 23:06:52 read the thread :) May 10 23:07:09 i'm typing from diablo now May 10 23:07:37 lots of people know about the nokia hidden stuff thanks to my screenshots :p May 10 23:07:51 if it's on public server it's not hidden May 10 23:07:52 :) May 10 23:08:09 noone saw it before though :p May 10 23:08:23 not even nokians! :p May 10 23:08:24 how often you browse those repos? May 10 23:08:25 :) May 10 23:09:02 me? :) May 10 23:10:39 error while getting ftd bulk data from em - what's em? May 10 23:11:35 qwerty12_N800: have you updated initfs as well? May 10 23:11:56 no. initfs is still same :( May 10 23:12:06 i'm waiting till friday May 10 23:12:28 ah i guess that's why the ftd bme view is not working for you either May 10 23:12:50 http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo/initfs-flasher_0.95.11-200817maemo2_all.deb contains the jffs2 image of the initfs ;) May 10 23:12:59 i stiil have diablo debs on my n800 May 10 23:13:09 i'll flash now May 10 23:13:14 Navi: darn May 10 23:13:21 fwiw, last i checked the final image wasn't settled May 10 23:13:28 i'm pretty sure there are still browser changes up in the air May 10 23:14:22 well those with diablo will get them "over the air" anyway ;) May 10 23:14:35 * timely nods May 10 23:15:02 Downloaded: 122,099,724 bytes in 663 files May 10 23:15:04 * jott whistles May 10 23:15:21 hmm, ftd depends on some newer libs May 10 23:15:26 663? my number was less :/ May 10 23:15:30 that's interesting May 10 23:15:40 122mb is fairly close to the standard image size May 10 23:15:43 KotCzarny: see above - as i said minor version tweaks in control file needed May 10 23:16:21 qwerty12_N800: hmm i suppose i also got an extra index.html .. May 10 23:16:23 oh well May 10 23:16:26 i will just risk upgrading May 10 23:16:27 :) May 10 23:16:31 i guess i should spend time trying to write the release notes May 10 23:16:40 jott, lol May 10 23:17:07 application manager has improved May 10 23:17:40 someone likes their swedish furniture, ikea is autocomplete word... May 10 23:18:20 ftd depends on tcpdump; however: May 10 23:18:22 O.o May 10 23:18:26 w00t? May 10 23:18:34 o rly? May 10 23:18:39 and syslogd May 10 23:19:01 no hurt in installing tcpdump May 10 23:19:02 :) May 10 23:19:17 or maybe not. May 10 23:19:20 more deps. May 10 23:19:24 argh. May 10 23:19:59 hmm.. for me only syslog was missing ... May 10 23:20:07 "apt-get -f install" worked fine May 10 23:20:26 i'm thinking about force too May 10 23:20:27 ;) May 10 23:20:30 for me, all deps were resolved by app man ;) :p May 10 23:20:40 i want just ftd for now May 10 23:20:44 :) May 10 23:21:22 no -f is --fix-broken not --force .. May 10 23:21:24 good old --force-all May 10 23:21:30 * KotCzarny grins. May 10 23:21:55 luke --force May 10 23:22:15 Kot: evil style? May 10 23:22:40 :) May 10 23:23:22 * KotCzarny loves info apps May 10 23:23:29 i cant believe clear option was removed in xterm. svn had it :( May 10 23:25:16 lifeguard restarts: esd: 93 May 10 23:25:17 hehe May 10 23:26:29 brb, initfs flash May 10 23:26:46 KotCzarny: watch the r&t registers :) May 10 23:27:00 yeah May 10 23:27:04 i'm on that page now May 10 23:27:34 wonder if this app was supposed to go public ;) May 10 23:27:42 jott: nope May 10 23:27:47 look at the section it's in May 10 23:27:50 :) May 10 23:28:13 hhmmm May 10 23:28:18 there is backup battery? May 10 23:28:59 jott, hell no. May 10 23:29:31 hmm May 10 23:29:33 but having all this registers documented is a nice touch May 10 23:29:37 battery information page failed May 10 23:29:39 i'm flash-and-rebooting ;) May 10 23:29:43 yeah needs new initfs May 10 23:29:47 i.e. new bme May 10 23:29:47 probably need bme upgrade May 10 23:29:57 brb, im flashing that initfs ;) May 10 23:30:03 qwerty12_N800 will tell us if it works after reboot ;) May 10 23:30:58 but bme seems to store alot of information :/ May 10 23:31:17 the more the merrier May 10 23:31:18 :) May 10 23:31:34 that sucks: May 10 23:31:48 "Flash and remove them? The device will reboot. (y/N)? y" May 10 23:31:50 overall nice app May 10 23:32:03 Image too big to fit partition May 10 23:32:13 http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/pool/diablo/user/m/maemo-mapper-topomaps-fi/maemo-mapper-topomaps-fi_0.10-1_armel.deb lol :) May 10 23:32:14 off to get fanoush's tools May 10 23:32:14 lol May 10 23:33:38 http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/something/ May 10 23:33:39 LOL May 10 23:33:47 now that's something May 10 23:33:48 ;) May 10 23:34:00 o_0 May 10 23:34:19 diablo kernel flashed... May 10 23:34:51 yeah basic auth though :/ May 10 23:36:23 go on jott, you kno u wanna hax :p May 10 23:36:24 but they still use "osso-software-version" borkness :( May 10 23:36:47 hehe l: nokia p: rootme ? ;) May 10 23:36:48 qwerty12_N800, yeah, I got that too . . . weird May 10 23:37:15 GeneralAntilles, do not flash initfs! May 10 23:37:23 wait a sec May 10 23:38:33 pre-installed-documentation-rx44_5.3_all.deb - 8.4mb May 10 23:38:34 "Data did not fit into device, due to bad blocks" May 10 23:38:34 anyone have a chinook original initfs? i desperatly need one May 10 23:38:34 kernel flashes fine though May 10 23:38:35 o.o May 10 23:39:01 qwerty: maybe you have overused internal flash.. May 10 23:39:22 qwerty: i can make you a copy of mine (fanoushed though) May 10 23:39:30 initfs is clean :/. plus Ga got it too. May 10 23:39:42 hrm May 10 23:39:43 KotCzarny, please do that May 10 23:40:04 keep in mind that i use ext3 and no usb May 10 23:40:06 or could you extract it from rx34 file if you have it around? May 10 23:40:11 please May 10 23:40:14 maybe try to flash the jffs2 directly with the console flasher? May 10 23:40:16 or maybe i have original one somewhere too May 10 23:40:29 jott: that's what fanoush flasher does May 10 23:40:30 jott, away from comp May 10 23:40:50 KotCzarny: yeah but not the initfs updater from diablo :) May 10 23:41:49 ok, initfs is which mtd? May 10 23:41:55 2 or 3 ? May 10 23:42:21 no idea :(. let me check... May 10 23:42:48 mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/tmp/n800-initfs.img.gz May 10 23:42:56 Can I just flash kernel? May 10 23:43:01 ga: yes May 10 23:43:06 mtd 3 May 10 23:43:12 From the Diablo tools. May 10 23:43:16 ga yes, it works fine May 10 23:43:27 KotCzarny, thanks May 10 23:43:36 What's the kernel flasher? May 10 23:43:42 qwerty: i think it's the original, ie, before fanoush May 10 23:43:46 flash-and-reboot does initfs too May 10 23:43:56 delete initfs image May 10 23:44:17 Downloaded: 662 files, 116M in 24m 3s (82.6 KB/s) May 10 23:44:22 righto May 10 23:44:24 mirrored too May 10 23:44:25 ;) May 10 23:44:48 KotCzarny, slow :p. I downloaded in 10m :p May 10 23:45:01 i have cheapest dsl here :P May 10 23:45:37 explains your site :p May 10 23:45:52 GeneralAntilles: there is a fiasco-flasher on the device now... May 10 23:45:53 yup, laptop served May 10 23:46:04 lol, serious? May 10 23:46:22 qwerty: laptop == pc + ups + low power May 10 23:46:22 :) May 10 23:46:44 hehe :) May 10 23:46:49 and quiet too May 10 23:46:50 :) May 10 23:47:02 and portable May 10 23:47:15 and i have all my data gathered in one place May 10 23:47:45 Weird May 10 23:47:51 Charging icon isn't animated anymore. May 10 23:48:04 mh file a bug :) May 10 23:48:09 regenerate gtk icon cache May 10 23:48:28 thanks KotCzarny , ur a life saver May 10 23:48:33 qwerty: :) May 10 23:48:49 qwerty: that's what i did when i could May 10 23:48:49 im now rebooting into new kernel :) May 10 23:48:53 backup :) May 10 23:48:59 I'll wait, jott. ;) May 10 23:49:05 thanks again May 10 23:51:28 im now running with diablo kernel :9 May 10 23:51:36 s/:9/:) May 10 23:51:39 anything different? May 10 23:52:20 seems a bit faster. ipv6 may be enabled, checking... May 10 23:52:39 Faster . . . May 10 23:52:41 Ha May 10 23:52:45 Placebo! May 10 23:52:56 yeah, faster because 'clean flash' May 10 23:53:18 * balrog-kun can't see much difference between chinook and diablo May 10 23:53:21 hehe May 10 23:53:21 hmm i wonder what the new gpsdriver brings May 10 23:53:34 jott: there was changelog posted May 10 23:53:52 except menus now wrap to the first position when you're on the last entry and press down arrow May 10 23:53:54 KotCzarny: no need to read the post :) May 10 23:53:58 just reading it May 10 23:54:05 :) May 10 23:54:06 erm the changlog within the deb May 10 23:54:18 wrapping isn't good.. May 10 23:54:21 * A-GPS support May 10 23:54:23 AGPS, apparently May 10 23:54:25 sounds interesting atleast May 10 23:54:28 yeah May 10 23:54:33 wasn't it disabled? May 10 23:54:39 balrog-kun, there isn't much different May 10 23:54:44 it's a maintenance release May 10 23:54:44 and debug called when something wanted to use it? May 10 23:54:46 bug fixes May 10 23:54:58 KotCzarny: i can get used to it May 10 23:54:58 * Debug improvements. Assistance data part separated May 10 23:55:03 teh wrapping May 10 23:55:59 if a program is added to sudoers do you still need to use sudo to run it? May 10 23:56:05 yes May 10 23:56:30 sudoers file is only used with sudo May 10 23:56:34 that makes sense.. May 10 23:57:01 that explains why it didnt work when i was playing the last few days May 10 23:57:05 :) May 10 23:58:58 diablo kernel was compiled on Wed Apr 23 May 10 23:59:16 better to add stuff to /etc/sudoers.d/appname instead of /etc/sudoers .. May 10 23:59:58 hm anyone with n810 checked if agps is usable on diablo? :) May 11 00:00:57 jott :) you are such a fountain of knowledge, but that doesnt exist on my 810 May 11 00:01:27 lcuk: well read the changelog of diablo gpsdriver :) May 11 00:01:36 lcuk, flash it :p. get sum northern courage :p May 11 00:01:45 and read the binary to find something like /system/osso/supl/pos_longitude .. May 11 00:01:49 i didnt mean the gps.. May 11 00:01:53 ah :) May 11 00:01:58 hm May 11 00:01:59 strange May 11 00:02:08 maybe some apps i installed created it May 11 00:02:12 im not updating to diablo yet, i need a stable system for linuxtag May 11 00:02:22 but it's actually the saner approach May 11 00:02:35 the sanest approach would be not needing it at all May 11 00:02:38 (if you put it in your deb the dir will be created) May 11 00:02:47 well given the circumstances :) May 11 00:02:58 qwerty12_N800: how did you get rid of the conflicting distribution message? May 11 00:03:05 has the cpufreq been adjusted for diablo May 11 00:03:13 i heard it was gonna be May 11 00:03:18 EruditeHermit, I didn't have one May 11 00:03:25 in apt-get May 11 00:03:27 lcuk, how to check? May 11 00:03:55 i would say can you see stars, just a minute ill get a test build ready May 11 00:04:29 ok May 11 00:04:31 oh feck it, im too tired May 11 00:04:53 ive got stuff i wanna do and cant sidetrack - ill get one ready tomorrow or somethin May 11 00:05:04 lol, i'm tired too May 11 00:05:10 * KotCzarny not May 11 00:05:26 but i'm hungry otoh May 11 00:05:26 ;) May 11 00:05:47 when me and lcuk aren't tired, the rest of you are sleeping ;p May 11 00:06:17 yer, while you lot were sleeping i was out feeding the ducks May 11 00:06:32 finger recognition works well May 11 00:06:43 .|.. May 11 00:06:49 lol May 11 00:06:56 ||.. May 11 00:07:00 * flo_lap is feeding something other than ducks ;) May 11 00:07:01 _.|.. May 11 00:07:03 V.. May 11 00:07:20 ||.. ||.. May 11 00:07:24 V ~o=== May 11 00:07:27 |..| o |..| May 11 00:07:29 * doc|home gets his coat May 11 00:07:29 |X| May 11 00:07:40 your head is smaller than your fingers? May 11 00:07:41 :) May 11 00:07:48 3<========8 May 11 00:07:50 ive got those foam hands :D May 11 00:08:12 qwerty12_N800: how do I disable the thing that causes the repeated reboots? May 11 00:08:14 http://ds9a.nl/amazing-dna/index.html May 11 00:08:15 :) May 11 00:08:28 EruditeHermit, uninstall Vista and get ubuntu May 11 00:08:38 lcuk, foam? sorry, i'm being a dirty shit... May 11 00:08:40 lcuk: already have it May 11 00:08:47 lcuk: never had vista May 11 00:09:06 EruditeHermit, use flasher to set rd flag no-lifeguard-reset May 11 00:09:17 but better to find the reason for the resets May 11 00:09:42 maybe because dsme is getting replaced? May 11 00:10:20 lcuk: the diablo ugprade is the reason May 11 00:11:52 flash performance is much better May 11 00:12:52 sweet May 11 00:12:56 I reflashed May 11 00:12:59 so here it goes May 11 00:13:21 see if you can install plug-in in chinook with microb svn May 11 00:13:44 lcuk, it's the Diablo upgrade May 11 00:13:53 Things that the watchdog watches for are getting upgraded May 11 00:15:29 qwerty12_N800: I tried it May 11 00:15:45 qwerty12_N800: the flash player plugin from diablo didn't work with default chinook microb May 11 00:16:04 upgrade microb as well? May 11 00:16:06 ah. what about with microb svn? May 11 00:16:34 didn't try it with microb svn May 11 00:16:45 microb svn messes up the apt package manager May 11 00:16:50 because you have to force depends May 11 00:16:56 it's much more closer to diablo May 11 00:17:06 I edited status file May 11 00:17:22 The svn is much nicer than the Diablo microb right now May 11 00:17:28 Any stuck the svn engine in Diablo yet> May 11 00:17:30 agreed May 11 00:17:41 I haven't tried May 11 00:17:49 The keyboard behaviors are completely borked. May 11 00:17:50 I'll try after I manage to upgrade May 11 00:17:52 I'm too scared to reflashed May 11 00:17:56 I just screwed it up again =p May 11 00:18:07 but its ok I know why May 11 00:18:10 diablo h8tz EruditeHermit May 11 00:18:33 copy and paste is messed up with hildon-input-method May 11 00:18:37 in microb May 11 00:19:20 * qwerty12_N800 can't wait to try aptitude and synaptic again in diablo May 11 00:20:39 Cluttered APIs, dependency hell May 11 00:20:40 As proteins interact in the cell, they rely on eachothers' characteristics. It has just been shown that proteins that interact with a lot of other proteins cannot evolve, or at least, only do so at a very slow rate. See Nature, 28 June 2001, and M. Kimura, T. Ohta, Science, 26 April 2002. May 11 00:20:46 hah. May 11 00:20:54 lol, theres another unlocked meta package with tr on it and all it does differently is install less :/ May 11 00:22:27 The Central Dogma: .c -> .o -> a.out/.exe May 11 00:22:32 This dogma tells us that DNA is used to make RNA and that RNA is used to make proteins, which is like saying that from a .c file comes a .o object file, which can be compiled into an executable (a.out/exe). It also tells us that this is the only order in which information flows. May 11 00:23:27 GeneralAntilles: how are the keyboards borked? May 11 00:26:46 Some code is sacred. We may not remember who wrote it, or why - we just know that it works. The guy who thought it up may have left the company already. Such code is not to be tinkered with. May 11 00:27:05 lcuk: you should read this article, very interesting pov :) May 11 00:27:26 modest working for anyone? May 11 00:27:32 KotCzarny: is that what happened at microsoft? May 11 00:27:38 anyone with the diablo beta, anyways May 11 00:27:40 nope, dna May 11 00:27:44 is for me, diablo version May 11 00:28:26 * qwerty12_N800 laughs at those nokia employees showing off they were using diablo :p May 11 00:28:35 :P May 11 00:28:45 I just get internal errors May 11 00:28:51 It's hard to activate the fullscreen keyboard with the dpad and return on the fullscreen keyboard does funky things May 11 00:28:57 like send blank searches to google. :\ May 11 00:29:36 ah, now you mention it Navi, I do get internal errors after a while May 11 00:30:18 They should name it modest - having 2 E-mail's is stupid May 11 00:30:36 Ha May 11 00:30:49 Well, the idea is to get rid of osso-email. ;) May 11 00:30:50 I _always_ get internal errors May 11 00:31:03 I can't even launch modist May 11 00:31:05 modist May 11 00:31:07 ffs May 11 00:31:10 Modest hates Navi May 11 00:31:13 s/modist/modest May 11 00:31:34 I can launch it fine, just craps out on me after a while May 11 00:32:24 send nitro report :p May 11 00:32:32 Now, DNA is not like a computer programming language. It really isn't. But there are some whopping analogies. We can view each cell as a CPU, running its own kernel. Each cell has a copy of the entire kernel, but choses to activate only the relevant parts. Which modules or drivers it loads, so to speak. May 11 00:32:56 i'm keeping nitro, it even tells you process name that messed up May 11 00:33:16 KotCzarny: fun article May 11 00:33:22 lcdd: yeah May 11 00:33:32 biology that i can understand a little May 11 00:33:32 :) May 11 00:34:00 well, more like genetics than biology May 11 00:34:46 it's no wonder that some coders turn into bioinformaticians May 11 00:34:54 now let's count cells in the body and laugh at quad cores May 11 00:34:55 ;) May 11 00:35:33 signals are sent by currents and changes in membrane potential May 11 00:36:42 bootstrapping paragraph is funny May 11 00:36:43 :) May 11 00:37:02 The same holds for the genome. To create a new 'binary' of a specimen, a *living* copy is required. The genome needs an elaborate toolchain in order to deliver a living thing. The code itself is impotent. This toolchain is commonly called 'your parents'. May 11 00:40:31 jott, does bme daemon depend on anything else? I'm gonna try extract diablo one and insert it into chinook initfs May 11 00:42:58 qwerty12_N800: well it depends on dsme so you probably need to put that up too :/ May 11 00:43:43 ok, thanks. i don't know why nokia put out half arsed initfs May 11 00:44:00 because it's not official yet? May 11 00:44:23 maybe it wil work with the desktop flasher?! May 11 00:44:39 but it's meant to be tested as well, you may as well leave it out May 11 00:48:55 night, i'm very tired May 11 00:49:04 :) May 11 01:03:56 GeneralAntilles: did you do the upgrade over SSH or from a terminal inside the tablet? May 11 01:13:01 does anyone know what hte default user password is on a fresh install? May 11 01:13:08 none May 11 01:23:08 http://www.kottke.org/08/01/the-27000-apple-computer May 11 01:23:09 hehehe May 11 01:31:28 Iron Man was enjoyable. May 11 01:55:52 KotCzarny, changing resolution and cpufreq changes in program, you can see exactly whats needed and even on powersave can find a resolution which scrolls well May 11 01:56:10 lcuk: is it bad or good? May 11 01:56:45 and read the article i posted :) May 11 01:57:16 article? May 11 01:57:19 ive been in the shed May 11 01:57:22 hey lcuk ;-D May 11 01:57:27 http://ds9a.nl/amazing-dna/index.html May 11 01:57:29 hi there LinuxCode May 11 01:57:29 here you are May 11 01:57:29 hey KotCzarny ;-D May 11 01:57:40 how you guys doing ? May 11 01:57:48 havent been here for a bit again May 11 01:57:52 got exams going atm May 11 01:57:53 ;-| May 11 01:58:42 LinuxCode, im doing great, ive been invited by nokia to go to linuxtag and talk about my little nit May 11 01:59:00 * lcuk holds aloft his tiny thing and waits for a gps lock May 11 01:59:09 * lcuk gets tired May 11 01:59:17 lcuk, sweet May 11 01:59:24 lol May 11 01:59:26 gps lock May 11 01:59:31 indeed it is, and ive been playing with some rendering code which flies May 11 01:59:31 that sounds kind of familair May 11 01:59:38 openglea ? May 11 01:59:43 or whatever its called ? May 11 02:00:07 no, just a very basic graphics library that feels quick May 11 02:01:02 and kot, its a good thing May 11 02:01:35 being able to choose from the interface is a nice thing May 11 02:01:38 I need to check for new appz soon May 11 02:01:44 I had no time to pay any attention May 11 02:01:50 still ahvent tested the fedora arm port either May 11 02:02:01 Uni eats ya life away May 11 02:02:05 and brain cells May 11 02:02:10 getting too old for that non-sense May 11 02:02:18 2 weeks and Im finished! May 11 02:02:23 back to the real world! May 11 02:02:24 lol May 11 02:02:28 what ya been studyin May 11 02:03:04 BSc Computer Science May 11 02:03:06 what else May 11 02:03:07 lol May 11 02:03:13 bull sh*t cs ? May 11 02:03:15 lol May 11 02:03:17 yep May 11 02:03:20 bullshit cs May 11 02:03:26 theory bollox May 11 02:03:43 seriously...if I had done some of the things I handed in for work... May 11 02:03:51 in a real world work environment May 11 02:03:53 well, if you wanted more practical way you should have gone to technology school May 11 02:03:57 I would have gotten the sack May 11 02:03:58 or whatever it's called May 11 02:04:09 raped is what its called May 11 02:04:11 KotCzarny, you need a degree in the UK May 11 02:04:19 theres no way around it May 11 02:04:30 + you get BCS accredited May 11 02:04:46 ? May 11 02:05:04 British Computer Society May 11 02:05:19 what do you need a degree for, i would look for competence May 11 02:05:28 lcuk, true May 11 02:05:40 but the Government is snobbish May 11 02:05:44 you can't get any jobs without stuff to put on a resume May 11 02:05:46 or CV May 11 02:05:46 and some companies too May 11 02:05:53 most go by what you can do! May 11 02:06:05 EruditeHermit, yeh May 11 02:06:13 its a bit of both worlds you need May 11 02:06:19 yep May 11 02:06:26 please the snobs and please the hackers May 11 02:06:29 hehe May 11 02:06:30 your competence is tested at the interview May 11 02:07:47 * unixSnob awaits someone to please him May 11 02:08:19 EruditeHermit, thats more self-marketing skills May 11 02:08:21 hehe May 11 02:08:39 hah! I was at a BCS meeting and a recruitment guy was there May 11 02:08:53 he said...students think because they got a degree they will get a job May 11 02:08:55 so funny May 11 02:09:05 they expect they will get a job May 11 02:09:15 so funny May 11 02:09:20 I laughed when he said that May 11 02:09:31 have you got anywhere in mind May 11 02:09:31 some people need a reality check May 11 02:09:37 lcuk, for work ? May 11 02:09:41 yer May 11 02:09:54 well, I was asked to call that same recruitment guy when Im done May 11 02:10:02 but havent had time yet to check elsewhere May 11 02:10:06 get these exams out the way May 11 02:11:02 then Ive been invited to attend ipics 2008 May 11 02:11:09 fully funded May 11 02:11:14 so we will see May 11 02:11:46 lcuk, all I know is that I do not want to work with winblows May 11 02:11:48 thats all May 11 02:11:49 ;-} May 11 02:12:06 LinuxCode: what part of the world are we talking about? May 11 02:12:14 UK May 11 02:12:39 LinuxCode: I've got the same criteria.. no windows May 11 02:13:03 thats what ya name implies lol May 11 02:13:07 nice nick by the way! May 11 02:13:08 Although Windows still appears in every workplace darn near.. for collaboration. But it's the dev environment that matters May 11 02:13:09 and yours :) May 11 02:13:34 hehe ta May 11 02:14:14 depending upon what you end up wanting LinuxCode, you can still work with windows, just look for a sane multi platform solution and be ready for the change May 11 02:14:36 My last project became an effort to port a solaris app to windows. I was disgusted. It was a safety critical app too. May 11 02:14:50 lcuk, agreed May 11 02:15:01 unixSnob, how ironic mate May 11 02:15:07 HOW IRONIC! May 11 02:15:09 hehe May 11 02:15:23 scada critical ? May 11 02:15:29 or not that bad ? May 11 02:15:43 If you focus on the aerospace / defense industry, generally the target platform will be non-windows May 11 02:16:22 Not sure what scada is.. I've seen that term in some of the british job listings i've been looking at May 11 02:16:48 Because my background is in Ada, Scada comes up in my searches :< May 11 02:16:52 im heading back into the shed May 11 02:17:01 lcuk: read the article May 11 02:17:04 it's fun May 11 02:17:04 :) May 11 02:18:08 BTW, I think in the US if you have a degree, you get a job. Not many CS majors sitting on the bench AFAIK May 11 02:18:42 holy crap dude, thats intense May 11 02:19:00 scada is critical infrastructure like nuclear powerplants, gas, water, etc.. May 11 02:19:39 unixSnob, well....this is the UK May 11 02:19:41 hehe May 11 02:19:53 shortage of people...but they all want to not train people May 11 02:19:58 you would be surprised at how many companies need developers May 11 02:19:59 quite silly really May 11 02:20:07 they want ready bred power clones May 11 02:20:19 that know all to be known May 11 02:20:21 lol May 11 02:20:26 with 99 years experience May 11 02:20:30 well students who can score internships have quite an advantage May 11 02:20:39 yeh May 11 02:20:43 yeah, 99 years of experience on technology 2 years old May 11 02:20:43 get ya foot in the door May 11 02:20:43 ;) May 11 02:20:54 KotCzarny, exactly May 11 02:20:55 lol May 11 02:21:18 id do an internship ...if I could do it at a place with my dream position May 11 02:21:19 the heading on my resume out of college was "new talent with experience".. got flooded with calls, and flown around the country to interviews May 11 02:21:31 id live under a bridge if need be May 11 02:21:38 for a year or so ;p May 11 02:21:39 the internship made a big difference, i believe May 11 02:21:53 probably did mate May 11 02:22:01 75% of employers want experience May 11 02:22:04 and a 2.1 May 11 02:22:08 isn't internship refunded for employers? May 11 02:22:10 or something? May 11 02:22:13 2.2 with more experience is alos ok May 11 02:22:27 ok-ish May 11 02:22:31 the other 25% know you through the social ladder May 11 02:22:38 lcuk, hehe May 11 02:22:51 KotCzarny: not sure what you mean by refunded. May 11 02:23:04 unixsnob: tax cuts etc ? May 11 02:23:12 for giving job to a freshman May 11 02:23:18 seriously, smile sweetly at auty polly and she will have a word with frank who will speak to doris and your name will come up when a job needs doing May 11 02:23:26 My employer paid me 17 USD/hr on an internship, and AFAIK they didn't get that money back.. and it was quite a deal for them. May 11 02:24:08 KotCzarny: I think there are enough built-in incentives that the employer doesn't need outside incentives May 11 02:24:26 hmm May 11 02:24:29 A lot of interns end up staying with their employers after they get the degree May 11 02:24:42 and it's cheap labor until then May 11 02:24:54 yer May 11 02:26:20 "One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." May 11 02:26:21 - Elbert Hubbard May 11 02:27:18 One of the advantages to bringing in interns is that interns often update the techniques - they bring more current ideas to the table, so the companies overall knowledge doesn't get out of date May 11 02:28:23 damn i hope that's not a brown recluse that just crawled onto my screen May 11 02:30:52 nice I just had a slug as present lol May 11 02:30:55 silly cat May 11 02:31:58 unixSnob, in the Uk they want you to adopt their companies philosophy May 11 02:32:12 which is why they want you in the 20's with a good degree and experience May 11 02:32:26 and high hopes May 11 02:32:29 :> May 11 02:32:30 haha yeh May 11 02:32:46 and low maintenance May 11 02:32:49 :P May 11 02:32:56 LinuxCode: yeah, i've noticed that with some companies here.. pisses me off when the force old techniques on students who have been taught better ways May 11 02:33:08 s/the/they/ May 11 02:33:08 unixSnob meant: LinuxCode: yeah, i've noticed that with some companies here.. pisses me off when they force old techniques on students who have been taught better ways May 11 02:33:41 but those old techniques are important May 11 02:33:49 http://bp2.blogger.com/_hNz3Mz_uViA/R5LsmQaxNhI/AAAAAAAAAgw/ZhUcf6_dX1Q/s1600-h/shadows.jpg May 11 02:33:50 :) May 11 02:33:55 you cannot just throw out and replace entire code bases May 11 02:34:02 lcuk, agreed May 11 02:34:14 Students are taught about how to avoid mistakes that are being made in industry now, and then they forced to repeat the mistakes May 11 02:34:22 I think the issue in the Uk is that they do stuff bit by bit in uni modules May 11 02:34:28 they should do it once and properly May 11 02:34:35 but that would lose them students May 11 02:34:43 EVERY project starts off like that May 11 02:34:50 as unis rely on student numbers for funding these days May 11 02:35:05 if student fail or drop out after year one they are stuffed May 11 02:35:12 Unless it's a more progressive company, like JPL May 11 02:35:22 the disadvantages of university fee based systems May 11 02:35:35 In germany its sink or swim May 11 02:35:42 simple as that May 11 02:35:56 you always want it to go well and smoothly, but people start to use and enjoy your code. ANY full rewrite will change that. once a user knows how to use a program they will continue to use it and only screw up when you change it May 11 02:36:09 JPL recognizes that students have new ideas to offer, and they bring interns and entry levels in for that reason.. May 11 02:36:36 api bondage May 11 02:36:36 :) May 11 02:39:19 Legacy products can really be improved.. and with very little effort. Eg. I worked a project where variables are named like ASRTWGSF. All of them. It was fortran code converted to Ada. I ran a sed script that made all the variables readable (after their meaning was discovered). The code was much better after that. May 11 02:40:00 8 chars limit, mmm May 11 02:40:19 There was an old man on the team who knew what ASDFASDW meant, and I had to fight him on every change I made May 11 02:40:38 yeah, no identifier exceeded 8 chars when I came to the project May 11 02:40:56 but Ada has no such limit. May 11 02:41:13 unixSnob, lol May 11 02:41:17 current fortran compilers neither May 11 02:41:22 but butbut I like hierglyohic code May 11 02:41:33 DNDIKJDSIODjhisdjsdjsdj = ksjdlsjdfspofjspofdsdf; May 11 02:41:37 lol May 11 02:41:38 ;-p May 11 02:41:48 tn=jk; May 11 02:41:49 :P May 11 02:41:56 then reusing jk May 11 02:41:56 ;) May 11 02:42:14 usual fun trap for others May 11 02:42:36 The other thing is, all these variables were *globals*, publicly accessible by all the code in the system May 11 02:42:53 globals are fun May 11 02:43:10 So I encapsulated things, lowered the scope as much as possible.. and again, it pissed off the old man May 11 02:43:11 globals arent really an issue May 11 02:43:15 input/output is May 11 02:43:31 but yeh May 11 02:43:38 The gray hair was not familiar w/ new techniques, or their benefits May 11 02:43:39 globals should still be avoided May 11 02:43:57 makes debugging fun if you use the same var May 11 02:43:59 haha May 11 02:44:03 doh! May 11 02:44:08 bug hunting too May 11 02:44:27 i usually use tmp as a name for a variable that i reuse often May 11 02:44:31 ;) May 11 02:44:46 so i know no to hang on it too long May 11 02:44:47 only store single instance variables globally, if there is the slightest hint that you might use a certain named variable around, use it locally May 11 02:45:09 how about configuration flags? May 11 02:45:37 probably some function is better than global variable May 11 02:45:45 single instance, option_turbo could be a global, but tmp wouldnt be May 11 02:45:59 yeah, i never use reusable variables as global May 11 02:46:13 i keep trash tidy May 11 02:46:14 :> May 11 02:48:14 My main point is that most entry level candidates are bring advanced techniques to employers -- who often force them to do things the undisciplined sloppy way, and it's damaging to both the company and the employee. I hate to see it happen, and it's very common May 11 02:48:35 well May 11 02:48:40 everything has it's time and place May 11 02:48:46 that's called experience May 11 02:48:47 :) May 11 02:49:31 An experienced, competent employer takes an approach like JPL.. embrace the new ideas May 11 02:50:18 A typical mattress is home to 100,000 to 10 million dust mites. May 11 02:50:22 If that's not enough to gross you out, consider this: dead mites and their droppings constitute one-tenth of the weight of a two-year-old pillow. Oh, and what exactly do they eat? Dead human skin cells. May 11 02:50:23 :) May 11 02:50:28 1/10? May 11 02:50:29 lol May 11 02:50:49 i can hardly believe May 11 02:53:21 anyone here attempt to run the maemo sandbox within a branded Solaris linux zone? May 11 02:56:18 http://www.slashgear.com/portable-pc-has-3-monitors-075636.php May 11 02:56:20 w00t May 11 02:56:27 * unixSnob is bummed he missed the amazon deal for 10 Plextor DVD burners for $111 USD May 11 02:56:40 dvd? May 11 02:56:42 what's that? May 11 02:56:58 * KotCzarny skipped whole cd/dvd/bluray thing May 11 02:57:58 can someone help me with a problem with Personal Menu? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 11 02:59:56 2008