**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 24 02:59:56 2008 May 24 03:10:30 <|penguinbait|> sorry wandered off, your welcome May 24 03:31:57 put on a screen protector and there are two major problems, i am clumsy as hell so it has bubbles and more importantly i can't get it off! :( May 24 03:32:48 take it into a shop which sells them and kindly ask the guy to replace it for you (for a small extra fee) :) May 24 03:33:02 :) May 24 03:33:07 or ask a friend May 24 03:33:16 who is better at manual jobs May 24 03:33:19 yer, the fee then is beer May 24 03:33:41 or a jug of juice May 24 03:33:43 any tricks to removing them? May 24 03:33:58 mysc: use credit card to push them out? May 24 03:34:03 or do i just keep pecking away at a corner till i win? May 24 03:34:08 ive never used one, but wish i did, my 810 has a scratch and an elbow crack May 24 03:34:14 or just wait, maybe they disappear by themselves May 24 03:34:27 lcuk: crack? o.O May 24 03:35:15 mysc: instructions on my screen protector says some bubbles are to be expected, and they will disappear eventually May 24 03:35:24 though i haven't applied it by myslef May 24 03:35:25 i thought it was a scratch at first, but the surface on each side of the line is at different heights, only feasible way it happened was when tracy absent mindedly leant on it with elbow May 24 03:35:27 so i don't know May 24 03:35:33 she said the color drained from my face May 24 03:35:59 lcuk, yeah, i have heard that story, but i didn't know it's a crack and not only a scratch May 24 03:36:21 hey, has anyone gotten their n800 to crash on shutdown? May 24 03:36:30 its not broken though, i can just feel it when i go over May 24 03:36:42 lcuk, then it's a deep scatch May 24 03:36:45 the other scratch is only about 1mm long but i know its there May 24 03:36:50 probably some filler should do May 24 03:37:02 i shut the thing off while playing an mp3 stream, and now it's just frozen with a black screen, mp3 steam playing and the blue light blinking at me May 24 03:37:16 l7: nice, does ssh work? May 24 03:37:25 its not a scratch - ive got scratches and a crack on my loox, its similar to the crack on that May 24 03:37:41 lcuk: is it under warranty? May 24 03:37:45 pop your battery, its just got its knickers in a twist May 24 03:37:54 KotCzarny: i haven't tried sshing into my n800 yet May 24 03:38:06 warranty never covers screen damage? May 24 03:38:09 is there a way to hard reset the n800? i'd prefer not to pull the battery out May 24 03:38:12 l7: you should be able i think, then just kill -9 -1 May 24 03:38:18 should reboot after that ;)) May 24 03:38:30 l7, dont be scared, just pop it and be done May 24 03:38:48 lcuk: popping the battery won't hurt the n800? May 24 03:38:56 shouldn't May 24 03:39:04 dont see how it could May 24 03:39:09 fs corruption is a possibility though May 24 03:39:13 hmm May 24 03:39:16 nothing that reflash wouldn't fix May 24 03:39:16 ;) May 24 03:39:26 how can i ssh into the n800? May 24 03:39:31 is there a default password? May 24 03:39:32 so what happens when your battery goes flat May 24 03:39:43 l7: if you haven't installed ssh server then you can't May 24 03:39:45 and its switched on May 24 03:39:57 ssh server is the first thing i install on every box May 24 03:39:58 :> May 24 03:40:00 i did install the ssh client May 24 03:40:17 i think i may have installed both the client and server May 24 03:42:38 nite May 24 03:42:42 nite nite May 24 03:42:52 oh yeah i can ssh in May 24 03:43:17 is there a default login and password though? May 24 03:43:21 or is the password randomized? May 24 03:43:34 if you installed ssh it asked you for a root pass May 24 03:44:14 oh right May 24 03:44:18 i'm in :) May 24 03:44:28 now have fun May 24 03:44:42 btw. are you sure it's not locked? May 24 03:44:43 ;) May 24 03:44:46 kill -9 -1? May 24 03:44:49 locked? May 24 03:44:56 press power button May 24 03:45:05 (or slider on n810 ?) May 24 03:45:19 root/rootme May 24 03:45:29 power button does nothing May 24 03:45:42 the blue light continously flashes May 24 03:45:51 l7: try reboot May 24 03:45:52 and the mp3 stream keeps playing on and on and on :) May 24 03:46:06 should i kill any processes first? May 24 03:46:09 nope May 24 03:46:14 it will do it for you May 24 03:46:53 hmm May 24 03:47:03 seems to be working May 24 03:47:29 ah nice, it worked perfectly :) May 24 03:47:33 :) May 24 03:47:46 only thing is, i can't find out what caused the crash May 24 03:48:04 it's an old version of the ROM anyway May 24 03:48:18 all i know is, playing mp3 stream + shutdown may cause crash May 24 03:48:25 ok, got the screen protector off...goddamn was i getting mad. never (never) use ones with adhesive May 24 03:48:54 :) May 24 03:49:42 mysc: which screen protector did you buy? May 24 03:49:58 i've had a protector for... several months but have been too lazy to apply it May 24 03:51:42 l7, never use WriteRight May 24 03:52:14 hmm, i'll keep that in mind May 24 03:52:23 i bought the boxwave protector everyone told me to get May 24 03:52:43 * KotCzarny got some screen protector with the device May 24 03:52:49 second hand ftw! May 24 03:52:57 already applied :) May 24 03:53:38 heh nice May 24 03:54:51 l7, i was going to order the boxwave ones but i saw these in the shop today May 24 03:54:55 waste of $10 May 24 03:55:01 :) May 24 03:55:10 sell it May 24 03:55:10 ;) May 24 03:55:35 lol May 24 03:55:46 KotCzarny: how much did you get your n800 for used? May 24 03:55:52 Is the boxwave really worth it? May 24 03:56:07 i'm vaguely considering selling my n800 and getting an n810 May 24 03:56:14 i really like that keyboard May 24 03:56:17 l7: 200$ for n800 + 8gb sd card + screen protectors May 24 03:56:19 l7, don't. i did the opposite. May 24 03:56:33 mysc: you sold your n810 for an n800? May 24 03:56:37 I'm still using the default sticker (the non-screen-protector screen protector), but it's starting to get impossible to read in sunlight, so I'm considering the boxwave. May 24 03:56:42 why? May 24 03:57:07 l7, double the dough wasn't worth it. i was no better at the hw kb than with the onscreen vt kb or hw recognition May 24 03:57:30 it was heavier, had gps which didn't sync well and was imprecise and didn't have 2 memory slots May 24 03:57:39 you found the hw kb too clumsy then? May 24 03:57:42 :) May 24 03:58:03 pity n810 screen doesn't fit n800 May 24 03:58:17 it could be a win :> May 24 03:58:31 how is the n810 screen different? May 24 03:58:34 here's the deal, if you're gonna type a lot...as in a document, the hw kb isn't gonna do it so you'll be using a usb/bt kb anyways. and for the simple stuff the onscreen is fine May 24 03:58:35 connector May 24 03:58:42 from what i remember from the boards May 24 03:58:43 just the extra brightness? May 24 03:59:00 it's not extra brightnes, it's transreflective May 24 03:59:06 the hw kb seems decent for chat and irc May 24 03:59:07 yes, the screen was nicer outside May 24 03:59:13 and short emails, which is mosly what i want May 24 03:59:34 but it wasn't 200 dollars nicer :) May 24 03:59:38 :) May 24 03:59:42 well true :) May 24 03:59:49 i'm hoping for an n810 price drop May 24 03:59:57 not until n900 May 24 03:59:59 anyways, get whichever you like more. for what i do the 800 was fine. May 24 04:00:23 and the 900 won't come out for a while since the wimax is not even out yet, right? May 24 04:00:31 who knows.. May 24 04:00:32 :) May 24 04:00:43 maybe next xmas May 24 04:01:01 but i suppose i would buy an eee pc if i had $400 to blow May 24 04:01:10 nah May 24 04:01:21 screen is tiny on eeepc May 24 04:01:38 the resolution is tiny May 24 04:01:44 i would like samsung q1 more May 24 04:01:52 but it's too big May 24 04:01:53 resolution is the same May 24 04:02:13 although I read somewhere that 9" version has a bigger resolution May 24 04:02:19 beford: 7" and even 9" is too small May 24 04:02:40 q1 is also quite expensive May 24 04:02:48 plus device is too big May 24 04:02:54 much more bigger than screen May 24 04:02:58 the screen is big compared the n800 May 24 04:03:12 i am glad eeepc exists, it's helping drive down the prices on the other umpc makers...we need cheap ssd ultra mobile lappies out there May 24 04:03:16 so i stay with n800 for portability and ibm x32 for anything else May 24 04:03:41 what do you use your n800 for? May 24 04:03:48 mysc: 2xCF to ide adapter: 30$, 2x8gb sd card ~120$ May 24 04:03:59 i haven't found a good use for mine aside from streaming internet radio and reading IRC May 24 04:04:00 and you have ssd ;) May 24 04:04:29 i really wish sling media would target maemo for their player or open-source it... May 24 04:04:31 l7: ebook/comic reader May 24 04:04:47 and fun while sitting on toilet May 24 04:04:47 ;) May 24 04:04:51 or on the bus May 24 04:06:04 i was sshing to my box from the toilet yesterday xD May 24 04:06:40 you've not lived until you irc from the crapper :> May 24 04:06:50 man, those openssh people have ported to fucking everything.... May 24 04:07:10 screen + irssi = <3 May 24 04:07:20 * KotCzarny is an epic user May 24 04:07:30 has someone ported ircii or epic? May 24 04:07:31 What doc...you have a problem with being able to ssh into your toaster? May 24 04:07:36 mysc: yes May 24 04:07:52 Kot, nice, i couldn't find it...do you have a link? May 24 04:07:56 mysc: i think it's a simple compile May 24 04:08:06 you mean irssi? May 24 04:08:18 no, ircii, the original :) May 24 04:08:21 ircii is a mother of all text irc clients May 24 04:08:21 Johnny5: not at all May 24 04:08:22 ;) May 24 04:08:33 Johnny5: once I'm done installing apache on my kettle of course May 24 04:08:33 oh :) May 24 04:08:37 Kot, link please. May 24 04:08:44 mysc, don't have one May 24 04:08:51 mysc, just compile it from source :) May 24 04:08:57 or look on debian.org :> May 24 04:09:41 http://packages.debian.org/sid/armel/epic4/download May 24 04:09:42 :) May 24 04:10:07 though this one depends on openssl 0.9.8 May 24 04:10:51 i can try and compile you one though May 24 04:10:52 :) May 24 04:14:07 i am getting ircii which doesn't need openssl May 24 04:15:48 you won't be able to connect to ssl servers :P May 24 04:21:19 Kot are you suggesting i run the .deb on maemo? May 24 04:21:25 ? May 24 04:21:32 you don't run deb May 24 04:21:35 dpkg -i May 24 04:21:36 :) May 24 04:22:37 i didn't think you could willy-nilly install debian packages from the SID area to maemo May 24 04:22:53 as long it's armel and all deps are there May 24 04:22:54 :) May 24 04:26:25 if you want epic with openssl 0.9.7: http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/dist/epic4_2.6-1.1_armel.deb May 24 04:27:03 ah, thanks Kot. May 24 04:27:23 let me know if you try it and it works May 24 04:27:33 ooh, the n810 wimax edition is coming next month May 24 04:27:56 maybe a price drop on the base model will accompany it :) May 24 04:28:01 :) May 24 04:28:59 but maybe i would just want wimax... May 24 04:29:36 that's a weird url, you have it redirecting to a lan address May 24 04:29:49 heh May 24 04:29:51 add a / May 24 04:30:01 thx for info though May 24 04:31:04 does that aterm work? May 24 04:31:13 yes, but is not hildonized May 24 04:31:32 ie. won't work with default on screen keyboard May 24 04:31:33 so no menus May 24 04:31:37 no kb May 24 04:31:43 but will work with xvkbd for example May 24 04:31:43 :) May 24 04:31:49 and of course hardware kb May 24 04:33:38 gotcha May 24 04:42:36 how can I partition an SD card? May 24 04:42:47 and how you partition a hdd ? May 24 04:43:07 is the same thing? May 24 04:43:16 from the os point of view May 24 04:43:20 having trouble May 24 04:43:20 it's a block device May 24 04:43:37 what kind of trouble? May 24 04:43:44 and what are you doing May 24 04:43:44 :) May 24 04:46:27 microSD card fat16 and ext3 for my phone and n800 May 24 04:46:47 and? May 24 04:48:18 using cfdisk /dev/sda1, but I don't know how to format ext3 and fat16 via CL. May 24 04:48:26 mkdosfs May 24 04:48:33 mke2fs May 24 04:48:52 for ext3 add -j May 24 04:48:53 :) May 24 04:53:34 hum... mke2fs -j /dev/sda1 looks like its working, but when I remount my microsd, it still shows that its at fat16 partition. May 24 04:54:00 what shows May 24 04:54:13 sfdisk -l May 24 04:54:19 and are you sure you are formatting proper card? May 24 04:54:19 ;) May 24 04:54:35 also May 24 04:54:51 partition type is NOT used when determining partition type May 24 04:55:00 treat it more like a suggestion for user May 24 04:55:06 windows/linux ignores it May 24 05:00:19 you could try to use gparted May 24 05:00:25 # gparted /dev/sda1 May 24 05:04:23 so the simplest way to format an SD card to ext3 is mke2fs -j dev/sda1? May 24 05:04:34 yes May 24 05:05:11 it doesn't touch partition table May 24 05:05:18 but it will mount as ext3 May 24 05:05:59 ok May 24 05:06:12 trying to install xfce on an sd card May 24 05:29:05 ok, Nokia is shipping my N810 to my house, possible I'll get it tomorrow, more likely monday May 24 05:29:26 ;) May 24 05:32:21 KotCzarny: don't make fun of me :) May 24 05:32:24 and now, bed May 24 05:32:26 ;) May 24 05:32:34 dream about bad mailman May 24 05:32:46 bad, evil mailman May 24 05:32:58 which will leave the box at the wrong address May 24 05:44:50 do all n800s have a bit of a dark vertical strip on the right side of the screen? May 24 05:45:03 photo pls May 24 05:45:04 hmm? May 24 05:45:26 its more like a very slight shadow May 24 05:45:29 screen is a little darker on the right side May 24 05:45:30 yeah May 24 05:45:39 fun of led backlight May 24 05:45:57 cellphones have it too May 24 05:50:29 i wish johnx would wake up :) May 24 05:50:53 why, it's evening in .jp May 24 05:50:58 * nab_ waves May 24 05:51:04 Good evening all May 24 05:51:05 :-) May 24 05:52:07 What is new..? May 24 05:52:19 * nab_ still needs to update his N800 to >- v2.6.24 May 24 05:52:21 er, >= May 24 05:52:27 ask astorm May 24 05:52:32 * nab_ nods May 24 05:52:36 he got 2.6.26-rc running May 24 05:52:38 :) May 24 05:52:44 He told me last time to just join linux-omap May 24 05:52:49 even for the 770? May 24 05:52:57 ds3: Not sure May 24 05:53:04 he owns m810 i think May 24 05:53:04 KotCzarny: Oh, cool May 24 05:53:24 KotCzarny: I have been tracking v2.6.23-rc3 for my LIO-Core / iSCSI Target stuff May 24 05:54:00 he wanted new sheduler May 24 05:54:01 :) May 24 05:54:06 But I still want to get the Neo Freerunner (running v2.6.24) and my N800 (also running v2.6.26-rc) to do shared storage with OCFS2 May 24 05:54:34 KotCzarny: Hrrmmmm May 24 05:54:35 http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/nab/lio-core-2.6.git;a=summary May 24 05:54:44 Here is the link for the server side iSCSI bits, if anyone is interestd May 24 05:54:44 :-) May 24 05:55:20 But anyways May 24 05:55:42 only scsi like device i own is a usb hdd May 24 05:55:43 :) May 24 05:55:43 * nab_ searching the linux-omap archives May 24 05:55:52 KotCzarny: Its all SCSI CDBs underneath May 24 05:56:00 probably May 24 05:56:02 USB uses SCSI Request Blocks for bluk I/O May 24 05:56:18 Same for Multi Media Commands (MMC) that you use with Optical drives May 24 05:56:33 :) May 24 05:56:42 So if you could imagine, virtually all storage devices speak SCSI command blocks more or less May 24 05:56:50 yeah, more or less May 24 05:56:51 :) May 24 05:57:41 sorry, phone May 24 05:57:47 With the exception of SATA May 24 05:58:07 SATA speaks SCSI as the software stuff May 24 05:58:19 Which SAS actually builds upon (using a SCSI Tunneling Protocol) over the serial PHY using the SATA state machines for accessing the bus, PHY, etc. May 24 05:58:25 ds3: In Linux, yes May 24 05:58:30 Via lib-ata May 24 05:58:44 does anything else matter? :) May 24 05:58:55 All of the SCSI specific things in the control path (eg: non data related) are emulated so it looks like a real SCSI device. May 24 05:59:09 With the exception of the more arcane SCSI task management stuff is not emulated May 24 05:59:25 But half of the real SCSI vendors do not implement or get it wrong anyways May 24 05:59:34 ds3: :-) May 24 05:59:50 In any event, iSCSI can encapuslate all of them May 24 06:00:14 Espically when you are running on a OS that makes all of the Direct-Access storage devices appear under their SCSI subsystem May 24 06:00:21 * nab_ notes that SCSI is OT for maemo May 24 06:00:39 tcp over scsi May 24 06:00:40 :) May 24 06:00:54 So, how about we get back to v2.6.26-rc on our maemo devices May 24 06:01:04 KotCzarny: It used to be called SCSI over IP (SoIP) May 24 06:01:16 Before the IETF folks in the IPS TWG produced RFC-3720 May 24 06:01:16 nab: astorm is an expert, should be here soon assuming it's morning in eu May 24 06:01:22 And got the name, ISCSI, etc. May 24 06:01:30 * nab_ nods May 24 06:01:31 no no, not scsi over ip May 24 06:01:35 tcp over scsi May 24 06:01:35 ;) May 24 06:01:53 KotCzarny: Over a Parallel SCSI bus..? May 24 06:01:55 Yikes May 24 06:02:26 KotCzarny: Yeah, I am just too busy/lazy atm to build v2.6.26-rc myself in scratchbox May 24 06:02:30 i wonder what would be the use of such technology May 24 06:02:40 Hopefully Astorm is nice enough to give me some kernel images so I can flash myself. :-) May 24 06:02:57 kernel and modules May 24 06:02:58 :) May 24 06:03:03 and maybe initfs May 24 06:03:04 But since am building an out of tree kernel module (for the iSCSI initiator), I should just shutup and do it May 24 06:03:04 :-) May 24 06:03:05 ;) May 24 06:03:30 Actually, all I need is >= v2.6.24 for my iSCSI/OCFS2 stuff May 24 06:03:41 I was hoping that Nokia would drop an OS 2008 upgrade May 24 06:03:48 think there was an implementation of IPoSCSI May 24 06:03:56 But I suppose they are going to stay @ 2.6.21 until OS 2009 May 24 06:03:57 :-) May 24 06:04:16 ds3: I am heard of IPoUSB May 24 06:04:32 nab: bad luck, diablo still uses .21 May 24 06:04:33 :) May 24 06:04:34 And of course things like IPoIB, for moving IP packets over shared memory interconnects and the like May 24 06:04:41 wait for elephante May 24 06:04:42 ;) May 24 06:04:50 KotCzarny: Is that the release after chinnook..? May 24 06:04:53 or just ask astorm/hack yourself May 24 06:04:56 nab: yes May 24 06:04:58 it is just a bit more complex then the PLIP stuff May 24 06:05:01 Ok, thanks for the info May 24 06:05:06 chinook->diablo->elephante May 24 06:05:18 Speaking of which May 24 06:05:27 Is there an release date on the WiMax N810 yet..? May 24 06:05:43 I am trying to figure out how I can get free WiMax here in the Bay Area for LIo testing purposes May 24 06:05:50 Mobile WiMax that is May 24 06:06:04 And I have not gotten a ping back from Quim yet. :-) May 24 06:06:10 :) May 24 06:06:21 Anyways, I thought I heard July somewhere May 24 06:06:23 assuming it's compatible with your wimax May 24 06:06:24 ;) May 24 06:06:26 Any insight..? May 24 06:06:33 KotCzarny: May 24 06:06:54 I know that Towerstream has been doing fixed WiMax for some time May 24 06:07:25 And since (from what I can tell from google) Mobile-Wimax is backwards compat (for better or worse) with the fixed variety May 24 06:07:46 Minus the awful latencies, non line of sight issues, etc. May 24 06:07:53 :) May 24 06:08:15 So July for a launch of the device..? May 24 06:08:36 And say fall for some other major markets with Xohm here in the US May 24 06:08:42 + the soft launch cities May 24 06:08:55 :) May 24 06:08:59 probably May 24 06:09:07 * nab_ has considered sending a WiMax edition to friends in one of those soft-launch citites May 24 06:09:29 Considering we can do Xohm by the day/week/month supposedly May 24 06:09:45 :) May 24 06:09:53 * acydlord is in a city that gets xohm in august May 24 06:09:56 Quite a novel concept huh..? May 24 06:09:59 Phone, brb May 24 06:10:21 * KotCzarny is probably too (nyc) May 24 06:10:27 maemo May 24 06:10:45 i would be interested in xohm only if it was in 5-20$ range May 24 06:10:46 :) May 24 06:11:20 maemo May 24 06:19:35 i heard mid-July May 24 06:21:01 why May 24 06:21:15 i'm paying $40 for unlimited evdo, i'd pick up xohm if they offer some discount plan where i get xohm on top of my evdo May 24 06:21:36 why May 24 06:21:53 why what? May 24 06:22:00 ignore the bot May 24 06:22:01 :> May 24 06:22:09 I am not a bot, you fool May 24 06:22:14 ahh May 24 06:22:25 bot May 24 06:22:27 ;) May 24 06:24:00 i wonder if i can get my blog readers to donate money for a wii fit since im fat May 24 06:24:22 you just have to find a proper audience May 24 06:24:23 ;) May 24 06:24:32 do you all have gcc on your maemos? May 24 06:24:40 * KotCzarny has May 24 06:24:52 i got someone to donate $50 towards my n810 lol May 24 06:25:07 acydlord: o.O May 24 06:25:07 so some poor sap paid for 1/3 of my n810 :) May 24 06:25:17 O.o May 24 06:25:21 n810 for 150$ ? May 24 06:25:29 yeah, developers program May 24 06:25:34 ah May 24 06:25:39 what have you developed? May 24 06:25:47 nothing yet May 24 06:25:58 d'oh May 24 06:26:04 was working on some geodata apps using plazes and the yahoo maps api May 24 06:26:24 maemo May 24 06:26:24 join the maemo-mapper gang May 24 06:26:29 that would be useful May 24 06:26:30 :) May 24 06:26:33 put that on hold while i add some more api's like fireeagle and brightkite May 24 06:26:42 or just write poi.db generator May 24 06:26:45 mamo May 24 06:26:47 maemo May 24 06:27:14 it outputs to gpx files right now May 24 06:27:24 so they can be imported to maemo mapper May 24 06:27:38 and i was going to make a twitter cient, but there isnt much need for one May 24 06:27:52 poor acydlord May 24 06:27:56 no twits with nokias May 24 06:27:57 :) May 24 06:28:07 n810 for 150$ ? May 24 06:28:10 Wow May 24 06:28:12 :-) May 24 06:28:27 i wanna join dev program too May 24 06:28:27 * nab_ holds out for the sample hardware May 24 06:28:28 ;) May 24 06:28:30 twitter is my main microblogging service right now May 24 06:28:37 any idea how and where and who? May 24 06:28:51 why May 24 06:28:52 KotCzarny: I think I would ask Quim May 24 06:29:09 internettablettalk and maemo.org usually post notices and instructions when the dev program is running May 24 06:29:14 nab: what is required/suggested ? May 24 06:29:15 As he is the numero uno OSS folk at Nokia May 24 06:29:20 why May 24 06:29:32 KotCzarny: For what..? May 24 06:29:42 why May 24 06:29:44 nab: for being considered a dev May 24 06:29:51 Ummmm May 24 06:29:56 i'm wondering if they are going to do one for the wimax version or wait till a completely new revision May 24 06:30:07 That you maintain or are a developer for a project that runs on Maemo May 24 06:30:09 I would imagine May 24 06:30:10 :-) May 24 06:30:13 hmm May 24 06:30:15 i'm a dev May 24 06:30:19 and i did some hacks May 24 06:30:22 why May 24 06:30:25 you pretty much sell them your ideas, write documentation, maintain a project May 24 06:30:29 do you think it's enough? May 24 06:30:30 :) May 24 06:30:40 KotCzarny: I am not the one handing out the samples May 24 06:30:40 i hate writing docs though May 24 06:30:41 ;) May 24 06:30:43 why May 24 06:31:09 And I am sure the WiMax Edition samples are pretty few and far between ATM May 24 06:31:23 Espically outside of Nokia May 24 06:31:34 yeah May 24 06:31:38 * nab_ notes he is purely speculating May 24 06:31:46 And would love to be proven wrong May 24 06:31:54 i wonder if thoughtfix will get one as phoenix is one of the first areas to get it May 24 06:32:00 why May 24 06:32:16 i would like a sample of n900 May 24 06:32:17 :> May 24 06:32:22 acydlord: Phoenix is on the list of cities for Xohm..? May 24 06:32:34 why May 24 06:32:36 yup May 24 06:32:38 Cool May 24 06:32:38 why May 24 06:32:40 why May 24 06:32:50 * nab_ checks xohmusers.com May 24 06:32:51 august is when we are supposed to get it May 24 06:33:03 xohmuser.com even May 24 06:33:03 :-) May 24 06:33:08 acydlord: Oh wow May 24 06:33:11 Very cool May 24 06:33:12 :-) May 24 06:33:39 I find it hard to believe that SF or SV in the Bay Area CA will not get Mobile Wimax (one way or another) before the close of 2008 May 24 06:33:40 i've already gotten 2 mailers from sprint about it May 24 06:33:52 Considering Intel and Google and pumping cash into it May 24 06:34:09 why May 24 06:34:21 yeah, probably something with the city government shelling out for the free wifi project May 24 06:34:28 why May 24 06:34:31 why May 24 06:34:32 why May 24 06:34:36 i'm sure there is some politicing to get it changed to wimax May 24 06:34:40 why not? May 24 06:34:53 wait, what are we talking about? May 24 06:34:55 acydlord: Its call $$$ for specturm May 24 06:34:56 Sure, the Xohm network has hit some snags recently. Sprint announced it would be delayed until later in 2008 May 24 06:34:57 hehe May 24 06:35:00 spectrum too! May 24 06:35:01 :-) May 24 06:35:18 news from the end of april May 24 06:35:31 i should buy a wimax AP May 24 06:35:35 ACtually May 24 06:35:48 I was reading that .au is getting some serious 3g stuff for the iPhone soon May 24 06:35:55 Something like 40 Mbit/sec links May 24 06:36:08 http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/05/23/unconfirmed-iphone-rumour May 24 06:36:17 dont they pay like 4 children and a cow per kb of data tansfered in the .au though? May 24 06:36:29 Of course, I don't plan to buy anything other than Linux based devices May 24 06:36:39 But, I do like the idea of their network May 24 06:36:49 acydlord: No idea, sorry May 24 06:36:53 :-) May 24 06:37:00 * nab_ reflects May 24 06:37:08 But, I do like the idea of their network if they offer flat-rate plans May 24 06:37:22 france is supposed to have some 40mbit wireless on their trains May 24 06:37:35 Hrrmmm May 24 06:37:45 One of the Linux-iSCSI.org devel guys is out of France May 24 06:37:52 Hi all May 24 06:38:01 ello May 24 06:38:12 And he was telling how the small telco he works for is going to be using Mobile-WiMax stuff for access in parts of Africa May 24 06:38:33 interesting May 24 06:38:37 * nab_ still wants until he can get a Mobile-WiMax anttenne on Ebay May 24 06:38:41 s/wants/waits May 24 06:38:54 acydlord: Is that true? France having wireless Internet access on their trains ? TGV? ! May 24 06:38:57 You can get a pretty decent fixed-wimax one for $300 these days May 24 06:39:00 one of the non-profits i'm with just installed a computer classroom in africa May 24 06:39:13 febb, i remember reading something about it awhile back May 24 06:39:20 I will be going to France in about a month... that would be so cool ! May 24 06:39:53 I know that in many european places they do offer now AC plugs...for laptops and such. May 24 06:40:10 thats pretty cool May 24 06:40:20 most coffee laces here in the states dont even offer that May 24 06:40:25 I mean on the trains, that is ! May 24 06:40:37 febb: Vrrrooommmm May 24 06:40:39 :-) May 24 06:40:41 oh, nice May 24 06:41:07 i have an adapter that can charge usb devices from the dual pront airplane headset plugs May 24 06:41:14 however it does so slowly May 24 06:42:26 I got two batteries..... that seemed the best way for me...(and a wireless BT keyboard)... and a BT cell phone (in case of an emergency to connect). May 24 06:42:49 i've just got the one battery, and the bt cell May 24 06:44:02 4xAA external battery ftw! May 24 06:44:04 :) May 24 06:45:55 has any of you installed the software and kernel stuff to turn the screen vertical on the N8x0 ? May 24 06:45:55 what is the common verdict - is the wimax going to be a big hit or just another step to LTE? May 24 06:46:06 who knows May 24 06:46:18 i installed it the other day May 24 06:46:31 febb: yes May 24 06:46:33 it's nice May 24 06:46:39 I don't think WiMax will catch soon...there are many many different interests..... May 24 06:46:40 and works flawlessly May 24 06:46:45 although it borks the desktop background lol May 24 06:46:53 assuming app doesn't hardcode 800x480 screen size May 24 06:47:03 acydlord: use 160x160 background May 24 06:47:11 Kat: what you had to do to install the whole thing? (I had seen many differente versions of the procedure and the soft)... May 24 06:47:12 or just reset it May 24 06:47:16 good point KotCzarny May 24 06:47:23 febb: sse2.net/rotate May 24 06:47:34 going there :) May 24 06:47:41 the autorotate installer on internettablettalk was simple May 24 06:48:04 what's auto in autorotate installer ? May 24 06:48:10 oilinki: Remember, there are two types of WiMax May 24 06:48:16 Fixed (v1) and Mobile (v2) May 24 06:48:26 it automatically goes landscape when you open the slide May 24 06:48:30 Fixed is primarly used by buisness folks these days from ISPs like Towerstream May 24 06:48:32 nab: and: closed and open May 24 06:48:33 ;) May 24 06:48:40 acylord: yeah, the autorotate is one of those "versions" of doing it I was talking about... May 24 06:48:52 acydlord: i have a n800 :) May 24 06:48:53 And you can even buy your own fixed wimax transmitters, etc May 24 06:49:19 yeah, several WiMax "standards" that is why I don't think it will catch well.... May 24 06:49:22 nab: someone mentioned yesterday what n800wimax wouldn't do open wimax May 24 06:49:24 oilinki: Those with Mobile Wimax interests are saying 2010 for Mobile-Wimax to be everwhere May 24 06:49:34 febb: Not several, two May 24 06:49:39 I guess cell phone technology will evolve instead.... to provide data and connectivity. May 24 06:49:42 And everyone is moving towards the latter May 24 06:49:59 Typically the same type of adoption curve happens with any tech May 24 06:50:07 If the solution the problem solves is painful enough May 24 06:50:22 * nab_ has seen it happen in the storage industry a few times May 24 06:50:31 nab: two is several in my point of view....more than "one" standard make thing a mess... Here we I live there are even additional variations of those 2 standards. May 24 06:50:41 febb: Its not more than one standard May 24 06:50:43 Its v1 and v2 May 24 06:50:45 just a few years ago we had both 802.11i and 802.11n fighting for acceptance May 24 06:50:49 v2 is backwards compat with v1 May 24 06:50:56 Johnny5: i bought boxwave recent and i absolutely love the screen protectors :P May 24 06:50:57 And v1 has latency, range limitiations May 24 06:51:33 v2 is supposed to be 10 miles line of sight and an average of 12-14 Mbit I believe is the current Xohm executive officer quote May 24 06:51:59 And that is claimed to be worst case on bandwith May 24 06:52:07 how do they reach 10miles? signal strength or device sensitivity? May 24 06:52:14 * nab_ has not idea May 24 06:52:18 NO idea. :-) May 24 06:52:28 Better ask a packet radio ASIC engineer May 24 06:52:29 cooking birds in midair with microwaves May 24 06:52:31 can i has a idea? May 24 06:52:32 ;) May 24 06:52:54 dunno, but there are a ton of places out here hiring for rf engineers and tower crew May 24 06:55:03 v2 is also supposed to average 50 ms RTT ping times May 24 06:55:08 While I believe v1 is over 100 ms May 24 06:55:11 one think i love anout the NITs is that they help my OSS evangelism efforts May 24 06:56:41 until you hit 'well, there are some binary blobs..' May 24 06:56:41 ;) May 24 06:56:54 * nab_ shudders May 24 06:57:14 for the typical technofiend it works well May 24 06:57:25 they are all oooh and ahh, and then they get interested May 24 06:58:16 * nab_ notes the overhead of maintaing a binary blob is significantly more than not May 24 06:58:59 But in the embedded world, its a slightly different ballgame May 24 06:59:04 :-) May 24 06:59:05 indeed May 24 06:59:23 Still more work looking at purely engineering resources of course May 24 06:59:39 But of course, as with everything, it depends on context May 24 06:59:46 :-) May 24 06:59:51 * nab_ is just preaching to the choir May 24 07:00:11 still beats having to wait for tips on BBS May 24 07:00:16 Heh May 24 07:00:21 acydlord: What kind of BBS..? May 24 07:00:33 * nab_ would script in PCBoard anyway May 24 07:00:38 s/anyway/anyday May 24 07:00:39 hehehe May 24 07:00:43 lol May 24 07:00:56 Was not PCboard big in .eu..? May 24 07:01:08 dunno May 24 07:01:25 I always thought I saw a ton of the best PCB plugins coming from there. May 24 07:01:35 i couldnt afford to dial that far =x May 24 07:01:37 * nab_ used to have alot of LD callers May 24 07:01:38 :-) May 24 07:01:40 Heh May 24 07:01:41 Welllll May 24 07:02:03 That was back in the day in europe when boxing was not exactly difficult or legally enforced May 24 07:02:05 Sooooooooo May 24 07:02:06 :-) May 24 07:02:19 lol May 24 07:02:22 heheh May 24 07:02:25 Vrroommmmmm May 24 07:02:50 and here the telcos were so greedy they changed their entire system instead of losing the minimal amount they would lose from boxing May 24 07:02:56 Back when the world was seperated by area code. May 24 07:03:00 (For the most part) May 24 07:03:06 yeah May 24 07:03:16 i remember a time when arizona had one area code lol May 24 07:03:26 acydlord: What was that one again..? May 24 07:03:33 hrmm, my bt keyboard idle timeouts :| May 24 07:03:43 the old area code? May 24 07:03:46 I remember calling some Renegard BBSes in Arizona/New Mexico back in the early 90s May 24 07:03:48 Yeah May 24 07:03:52 602 May 24 07:03:58 * nab_ looks at bbsmates.com May 24 07:03:59 :-) May 24 07:04:04 Hrrrmmmm May 24 07:04:07 Sounds very fimilar May 24 07:04:35 I think I downloaded Desqview/X from the 602 May 24 07:04:36 :-) May 24 07:04:42 (Before I found OS/2 with tshell) May 24 07:05:07 But anyways May 24 07:05:13 Lots of history May 24 07:05:14 :-) May 24 07:05:37 one of my friends was over and found my c64 actually hooked up under my desk May 24 07:05:50 it's like someone finding your porn collection May 24 07:05:55 Heh May 24 07:05:56 :-) May 24 07:06:09 * nab_ got into computing @ protected mode 386 dx 40 May 24 07:06:19 lol May 24 07:06:23 Not a bad time. :P May 24 07:06:29 indeed May 24 07:06:41 i have a lovely 286 in storage May 24 07:06:43 You gotta watch out for the 486 sx 25s though May 24 07:06:45 No good! May 24 07:06:46 :P May 24 07:07:06 i have a 486 dx 33 in a box somewhere May 24 07:07:10 Oh man, 286 w/ 4 MB ram was rough May 24 07:07:20 Espically with anything other than OS/2 May 24 07:07:22 * KotCzarny has decpc 425sx May 24 07:07:22 i havent checked the ram on this one May 24 07:07:24 laptop May 24 07:07:26 it's from 78 May 24 07:07:28 (For multinode BBS ops) May 24 07:07:29 running 2.6.something May 24 07:07:30 ;) May 24 07:07:49 KotCzarny: Heh, awesome. :-) May 24 07:07:54 yeah.. got it free May 24 07:08:06 a few museams have tried to get aholf of my 286 cause it was built under US govt contract May 24 07:08:21 acydlord: Hrrmmm May 24 07:08:35 * nab_ looks at a DEC Alpha protocol not too far away from his desk May 24 07:08:38 er May 24 07:08:43 s/protocol/prototype May 24 07:08:48 (from Ebay :-) May 24 07:08:54 woot May 24 07:08:57 Actually, I think the Parallel SCSI card is going bad May 24 07:09:12 But the DP-264 Alpha is still rocking fine. :-) May 24 07:09:18 i still need to contact phoenix about the bios on the 286, it may be a first gen May 24 07:09:36 Speaking of the Alpha folks May 24 07:09:38 which would be uber sweet May 24 07:09:43 I wonder how PA-Semi is doing at Apple these days May 24 07:10:06 They PPC64 architecture with Level 2 Cache on a shared interconnect is pretty fucking novel May 24 07:10:17 Seriously low TDP for its class May 24 07:10:43 * nab_ met with a few of these folks back in the startup days May 24 07:10:50 nice May 24 07:11:04 Well, I have yet to receive sample hardware.. May 24 07:11:06 So, not that nice May 24 07:11:07 :) May 24 07:11:21 i lost all respect for apple when they switched to intel for their comsumer machines May 24 07:11:22 hmm May 24 07:11:26 They where doing some traditional iSCSI (RFC-3720) CRC32C checksum offland May 24 07:11:27 breakfast time, brb May 24 07:11:28 offload May 24 07:11:43 And probably some TCP offload stuff as well, this was back in 2006 mind you May 24 07:11:46 But anyways May 24 07:11:56 * nab_ steers the conversation back to Maemo May 24 07:12:12 acydlord: I don't know May 24 07:12:18 ppc > qemu > maemo May 24 07:12:20 Intel had a much better mobile roadmap than IBM did May 24 07:12:22 there, back on track May 24 07:12:33 true May 24 07:12:37 The Core2Duo marchitecture is pretty strong May 24 07:12:42 i miss the motorolla ppc May 24 07:12:52 All of the serious pre-execute instrution optimizations for x86 ops May 24 07:13:14 And they finally got rid of the "faster clock is better" design (see: Netburst) May 24 07:13:17 man, what ever happened to risc procs May 24 07:13:27 acydlord: Well, ARM is pretty RISCy May 24 07:13:39 true May 24 07:13:40 And there are MIPS in all of the PSPs May 24 07:13:51 and in wrt54gs May 24 07:13:52 ;) May 24 07:13:58 KotCzarny: :-) May 24 07:14:15 And of course IBM won the console war with PPC64/CBA May 24 07:14:30 Because regardless of what happened with Nintendo/Sony/MSFT, they where getting paid May 24 07:14:32 :-) May 24 07:15:08 * nab_ notes IBM stock is trading at 124.20 May 24 07:15:18 I should have bought at $92!!! May 24 07:15:19 ARGH May 24 07:15:33 it's just because of $$ inflation May 24 07:15:36 don't worry May 24 07:15:38 :) May 24 07:15:42 At least IBM and folks like Nokia are being rewarded for going the OSS route May 24 07:15:54 lol, i should have traded my sony stocks for yahoo before they skyrocketed May 24 07:16:01 IBM basically did the biggest about face anyone could, and pushed Linux/OSS back in 2000/2001 May 24 07:16:10 yeah May 24 07:16:22 * nab_ remembers the IBM speaches from LWCE 2001 May 24 07:16:30 i pooped a brick when ibm said they were selling off their hardware division May 24 07:16:31 speeches May 24 07:16:55 yeah May 24 07:17:03 acydlord: The best is when the two different IBM groups ported Linux v2.2 to the S/390 May 24 07:17:06 at least they should have kept thinkpads :/ May 24 07:17:17 The IBM execs said it was the first time that mainframe sales increased in 20 years! May 24 07:17:20 hehehe May 24 07:17:28 i like the lenovo ideabooks =x May 24 07:17:34 though i bet thinkpads were the main reason of the deal May 24 07:17:34 ;) May 24 07:17:53 im waiting for people buying macs to get lead poisoning May 24 07:18:32 * nab_ waits for SSDs May 24 07:18:49 * KotCzarny waits for microwave heating the meal May 24 07:18:58 SSDs will be nice May 24 07:18:59 With Intel providing SSDs to notebook vendors now, there is not much aside from adding the case. May 24 07:19:11 but im sure amd based laptops wont have any better battery life lol May 24 07:19:13 acydlord: That was actually a big topic of discussion at LFS '08 May 24 07:19:32 eg: How do we scale Linux to handle single drive 50,000 IOP performance May 24 07:19:34 well, you can have ghetto ssd already May 24 07:19:35 :) May 24 07:19:48 The numbers I heard from Intel people was 1/5 the power, and 10000x the performance May 24 07:20:14 Going from traditional electromagnetic spindles to flash memory May 24 07:20:38 but you cant make a clock out of an SSD after the platters crash May 24 07:20:45 One of the limiting bits with Linux was the single threaded bdflush kernel thread May 24 07:21:03 The presenter who ran into the problem had 8 GB/sec raw storage array bandwith May 24 07:21:06 Grrroooommmmm May 24 07:21:10 er May 24 07:21:12 Vrrrooommmmmmmmmmm May 24 07:21:13 :-) May 24 07:21:42 acydlord: There is all sorts of vendor unique magic that goes on in the firmware for those things May 24 07:22:07 Samsung had a senior-engineer there discuss the 10,000 FT overview of their design May 24 07:22:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racetrack_memory May 24 07:22:22 :) May 24 07:22:57 i have a 160gb samsung pcie flash card in one of my testbeds May 24 07:23:02 Espicall wrt WRITE performance going across the different flash memory cells that requires read-modify-write for each block touched May 24 07:23:31 (Which modern FS metadata layouts helped alot for getting proper aligned block writes to flash memory cells May 24 07:23:37 s/Which/With May 24 07:23:56 eg: Don't expect vfat to go 50,000 IOPs/sec May 24 07:23:59 :-) May 24 07:24:25 acydlord: Very cool May 24 07:24:26 :-) May 24 07:24:46 How many PCIe lanes is it using..? May 24 07:24:48 i've been trying to switch everything out from high specs to power saving May 24 07:25:01 one x16 and one x1 May 24 07:25:21 Cool. :-) May 24 07:26:12 the machine i'm on right now is running on the fated AMD GeodeNX processor May 24 07:26:44 Ah, yes. May 24 07:26:56 I have been meaning to get some of those for one of the LIO projects May 24 07:27:17 We are doing a shrink (in software terms) of LIO-DRBD to 2x 1TB SATA drive embedded Linux boards May 24 07:27:25 nice May 24 07:27:36 And doing Active/Active High Availability with Data Replication with iSCSI on the front end May 24 07:27:54 Currently we are using TS-7800 boards May 24 07:27:59 Using the Marvell 5882 ASIC May 24 07:28:18 scale them down to the wall socket units May 24 07:28:23 Er, 5182 (The one with the integrated SATA, USB, GB/sec ethernet) May 24 07:28:42 There are a bunch of embedded Linux storage device being launched on the 5182 this year May 24 07:28:56 nice May 24 07:29:09 http://linux-iscsi.org/index.php/TS-7800 May 24 07:29:12 For anyone interested May 24 07:29:12 :-) May 24 07:29:20 http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5637467946.html May 24 07:29:29 There is the link for the consumer level devices May 24 07:29:56 The plan is to hookup the Mobile Linux devices (along with everything else that can speak iSCSI) to this type of setup May 24 07:31:06 Espically over Mobile-Wimax. :-) May 24 07:31:11 that would be pretty sweet May 24 07:31:34 acydlord: So, we are looking at end of summer for going into self-hosted production for the above design @ Linux-iSCSI.org May 24 07:31:47 For the server side stuff + VM clients May 24 07:31:53 Running the cluster filesystem setup, etc. May 24 07:32:03 i'll have to check it out May 24 07:32:18 For the Maemo devices, its just a matter of installing the initiator .deb, which is still CLI based May 24 07:32:41 But I hope we can automate (and add a simple GUI) for the client side mobile stuff May 24 07:32:57 that would be a nice setup to replace my local file servers with May 24 07:33:06 But aside from that, the transport has been stable with the maemo devices for a few years now May 24 07:33:29 :) May 24 07:33:38 And we have tested 900 GB filesystems on the maemo devies using iSCSI/WiFI with R/O ext3 filesystem mounts May 24 07:34:10 Issues with the maemo file manager, etc. May 24 07:34:19 Actually, I still need to post bugs on a few of the items May 24 07:34:25 They are in the wiki for now May 24 07:35:41 http://linux-iscsi.org/index.php/OCFS2/iSCSI_for_OS-2008 May 24 07:35:48 (If anyone has not checked it out yet. :-) May 24 07:36:40 Seriously, if anyone needs help getting it setup, please contact me on the LIO-Target devel list May 24 07:36:44 There is a link on the main page May 24 07:37:09 There have been some downloads, but I have not heard anything from another user yet. :-) May 24 07:38:10 So if someone gets bored enough, please ping me May 24 07:38:11 :-) May 24 07:39:25 ping May 24 07:39:36 :) May 24 07:39:44 KotCzarny: To get iSCSI/Maemo running on their device May 24 07:39:47 ahm May 24 07:39:49 :) May 24 07:39:55 Actually, with LIO-VM its pretty simple May 24 07:40:06 You can plug in any USB device, and it will be exported on boot by the VM May 24 07:40:20 you should add wiki page on maemo.org May 24 07:40:21 And then just add the IP to your /etc/sysconfig/initiator and call /etc/init.d/initiator start May 24 07:40:25 pointing to the site :) May 24 07:40:33 and maybe copy pasting the howto :) May 24 07:40:40 I think that is loooooong over-do. May 24 07:40:41 :-) May 24 07:41:06 the more links the merrier May 24 07:41:07 ;) May 24 07:41:11 Indeed May 24 07:41:39 Ok, I need to log off soon, but I will be sure to make the page May 24 07:42:02 https://linux-iscsi.org/index.php/Core-iSCSI/Nokia_800 May 24 07:42:08 Is where you can find the current .debs for OS 2008 May 24 07:42:22 Which have been tested on the N800, and should work on N810 May 24 07:42:58 Actually, if anyone has an N810 handy, I would really apperciate if you could test May 24 07:43:23 n810 is nearly identical May 24 07:43:24 The N810 uses the same v2.6.21 for OS-2008, yes..? May 24 07:43:27 Ok, cool. May 24 07:43:28 yes May 24 07:46:54 Ok folks, nice talking with you May 24 07:46:59 Catch you later. :-) May 24 07:47:22 bye bye May 24 07:47:22 :) May 24 08:16:01 What's the default CHOST for Maemo? May 24 08:16:11 armeb-unknown-linux-gnu? May 24 08:16:37 Wait, it's an armel system May 24 08:16:40 so arm-unknown-linux-gnu? May 24 08:17:51 gnueabi? May 24 08:17:54 or eabi? May 24 08:21:26 KotCzarny, Seeing as you are around, any ideas why arm-linux-cs2008q1-126sb1 doesn't work? I get "checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs.If you meant to cross compile, use `--host'." when running ./configure on any program. My target with 2005 toolchain works fine (and I've made sure that the new target with 2008 has all the right files) May 24 08:28:52 qwerty: works for me May 24 08:28:53 :) May 24 08:29:05 i told you to use newest qemu, didn't i? May 24 08:29:09 I am ;) May 24 08:29:15 SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD=/scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-cvs May 24 08:29:20 state your qemu version May 24 08:29:27 use qemu0-arm-cvs-m May 24 08:29:28 :) May 24 08:29:34 qemu-arm-cvs-m May 24 08:29:39 Ah, thanks!# May 24 08:29:51 don't know what's the difference May 24 08:29:53 but works for me May 24 08:29:54 :) May 24 08:30:13 I was lookin in config.log, it seems like qemu-arm-cvs craps out on the arm emulation >.< May 24 08:31:08 also i assume you have: http://scratchbox.org/~jhakala/testing/scratchbox-devkit-cputransp_1.0.8~20080428_i386.deb right? May 24 08:31:09 :) May 24 08:31:29 Yep, it works now thanks! May 24 08:31:31 Yes :) May 24 08:31:49 I have 2005,2007,2008 toolchain now >.< May 24 08:34:19 i have original one and 4.2.3 May 24 08:34:20 :) May 24 08:35:11 I removed my 2007 toolchain so I have 2008 toolchain with gcc 4.2.3 and the old 2005 one with gcc 3. :) May 24 09:16:14 lol May 24 09:16:17 nokia e51 is retarded May 24 09:16:23 when it comes to synching contacts May 24 09:16:37 doesnt understand wtf to do with vcards with multiple contacts May 24 09:16:59 * qwerty12 knows, I had nightmare transferring contacts from N80 to P1i >.< May 24 09:17:16 Num Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error May 24 09:17:16 # 1 Short offline Completed: electrical failure 80% 30040 - May 24 09:17:21 this hdd is dying May 24 09:17:23 O.o May 24 09:17:28 Cptnodegard: all nokia phones I have ever tried to sync with have had that issue :( May 24 09:17:57 Typical nokia. Crap Contacts on Linux, crap Contacts on S60. May 24 09:18:10 back May 24 09:18:19 ello May 24 09:18:30 had to do se k550 -> memory card - > card readeer on pc -> import to outlook -> synch to nokia May 24 09:18:37 Cptnodegard: for s60 2nd ed there was a prog that wrote all contacts to a single vcard May 24 09:18:57 What about for 3rd edition? May 24 09:19:32 dunno, on 3rd ed i've just used pcsuite to move contacts(and the transfer app for phone->phone) but i'm limited to nokias only in this so.... May 24 09:19:43 Ah, ok :) May 24 09:20:18 pcsuite knows how to transfer contacts between different nokia phones(s40 too afaik) now which is handy May 24 09:20:32 nab: (About wimax, sorry for the late answer). My opinion is that if wimax would be 'free' like wlan is, it would be a killer. but when the operators are controlling frequencies - it will be faded out as it can not compete with LTE May 24 09:20:33 PCSuite <-- should die May 24 09:20:37 pc suite is a whale. May 24 09:20:45 earlier it was sort of crap, if you had the backup on pcsuite youd need the same model phone to get the backup out... May 24 09:20:52 a dead whale May 24 09:21:00 stinky dead whale May 24 09:21:05 zombie dead whale May 24 09:21:09 RST38h: yeah it sucks.. but it does it's job as theres nothing better May 24 09:21:11 s/hal/hor May 24 09:21:19 nope, there is May 24 09:21:28 get a simcard, write all contacts to it May 24 09:21:34 move it to the better phone May 24 09:21:36 needs an app too May 24 09:21:36 ;) May 24 09:21:43 simcards have limits too May 24 09:21:53 and thats not what i use pcsuite mainly for May 24 09:21:58 simcards doesn't support "extended" fields in contacts and only have about 100 contacts memory. May 24 09:22:01 i use it mainly for moving files May 24 09:22:03 while developing May 24 09:22:16 qwerty12: well some have 255 and some have even more May 24 09:22:34 glass, My simcard is old then :( May 24 09:22:47 qwerty: 'loose' your simcard May 24 09:22:54 go to your service provider May 24 09:22:56 pay a little May 24 09:22:56 qwerty12: buy a copier May 24 09:23:01 they will give you new May 24 09:23:07 not worth it.. May 24 09:23:17 depends May 24 09:23:31 No point :). My phones contacts are fine. May 24 09:23:34 for me it was ~3-4$ May 24 09:23:45 maybe if you'd really like to have the contacts on the sim.. but moving them to it can be painful(needs that app, s60's don't normally do anything more than import frmo sim) May 24 09:24:24 if you break your phone May 24 09:24:28 and i got a perfectly working solution May 24 09:24:34 you will be happy to have contacts on sim May 24 09:24:34 :) May 24 09:24:48 if i break it i just return the backup from the pcsuite to some another s60 i got around May 24 09:24:49 your perfectly working solution is a whale May 24 09:24:53 and needs windoze. May 24 09:25:01 well my work needs windoze May 24 09:25:04 and s60's May 24 09:25:15 and messing with files on the phone May 24 09:25:24 pcsuite fits that May 24 09:25:48 sure May 24 09:25:59 some people use photoshop for image resizing May 24 09:26:07 and are happy with it May 24 09:26:08 :) May 24 09:26:16 the biggest crap is the crap sdk's May 24 09:26:18 not pcsuite etc May 24 09:26:31 * KotCzarny hates .mmk May 24 09:26:33 :) May 24 09:26:45 good thing there are alternatives May 24 09:26:46 ;) May 24 09:27:17 and i don't mind windoze, i got no principles in that sense May 24 09:27:30 i assume you have original one? May 24 09:27:37 yeah May 24 09:27:48 and pay for every new version on the market? May 24 09:27:48 of course May 24 09:27:51 work May 24 09:27:59 i'm not upgrading to vista unless i have to May 24 09:28:11 i don't want to try if the tools work there May 24 09:28:14 you will, you will.. ;) May 24 09:28:42 xp is going to die by m$ hand in a few months May 24 09:28:45 maybe with a new lappy if it comes bundled, but i'd have to make it look like 2k's default theme May 24 09:29:07 theme won't make up for the horrors inside May 24 09:29:08 ;) May 24 09:29:38 i've used linux on desktop when it was practical May 24 09:30:00 * qwerty12 has Vista, XP and Linux. So I'm covered. May 24 09:30:06 for me, it's not. getting the sdk's running on linux is a pain and theres a lot of other tools besides that May 24 09:30:16 qwerty: no, you are not, osx :P May 24 09:30:25 Don't like OSX :p May 24 09:30:28 i hate osx.. May 24 09:31:21 why? May 24 09:31:22 :) May 24 09:31:50 Well, I found it awkward to use and I had to update my BIOS to get it to boot :/ May 24 09:31:56 lots of reasons, like needing a finder replacement because the default finder sucks so much, and window management in general in it May 24 09:32:05 After that I found it really weird to use. May 24 09:38:35 sb2 gentlemen May 24 09:38:48 stop screwing with sb1, it is weird and unworkable May 24 09:39:01 * qwerty12 really doesn't like SB2 May 24 09:39:33 Besides KotCzarny helped me with qemu and toolchain stuff so I'm set. May 24 09:40:06 rst: works for me :> May 24 09:40:37 * qwerty12 really <3's Jaffa's tablet-encode May 24 09:41:37 Hmm, Fanoush's Rotation Kernel or the Diablo Kernel? May 24 09:42:03 breed 'em! May 24 09:42:22 I can't :( May 24 09:42:37 .config and maybe other changed source isn't available for the diablo kernel yet. May 24 09:43:06 ohhoho May 24 09:43:15 yeah, no sources yet May 24 09:43:32 fuck, I disabled START button on dpad center and now I am getting emails from users asking where it has gone May 24 09:43:50 lmao, tell em the button is on their cracks May 24 09:43:58 there is just NO way to satisfy everybody May 24 09:44:00 Why not make it an option? May 24 09:44:31 'cause I am too lazy to implement gtk config dialog May 24 09:44:39 rst, not true May 24 09:44:40 definitely not for this item only May 24 09:44:43 just make it configurable May 24 09:44:44 :) May 24 09:44:47 What about text based option? May 24 09:44:56 I may have a gconf setting for it May 24 09:44:57 like dpad-start=1 etc May 24 09:45:21 gconf.. That reminds me, got to mod acmonitor. May 24 09:45:45 there is an obscure architectural problem with making it a command line option May 24 09:46:11 has to deal with this being implemented at the EMULib layer while all command line options are processed by the app itself May 24 09:47:24 I just made dpad center act as START when SHIFT/CTRL/ALT is pressed, that is the easiest way to satisfy both models, but it will not prevent people form asking May 24 09:58:25 make it configurable May 24 09:58:27 :) May 24 10:01:17 huhu here May 24 10:08:37 the roadmap don t seem to be up to date May 24 10:08:56 when is planed the next version ? May 24 10:09:58 next version of what? May 24 10:13:55 w00t, new application manager should be coming soon for diablo ;) May 24 10:15:20 :) May 24 10:16:59 I'm off to compile it, I want to try and make a few modifications on it anyway. May 24 10:17:20 http://tiny.pl/nvqm May 24 10:17:33 adding joystick on the right mmm May 24 10:29:30 yei finally got the thing configured May 24 10:29:44 http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/nokias.jpg May 24 10:31:00 Man, if/when I buy my next Symbian phone, it aint gonna be that one :p May 24 10:31:15 why? :p May 24 10:31:27 looks like samsung May 24 10:31:28 :P May 24 10:31:31 lol May 24 10:31:35 Don't like how it looks :p. Plus the buttons aren't "symbian standard" :) May 24 10:31:39 girlish phone May 24 10:31:42 i got the black one, silver one looks more nokia May 24 10:31:54 maybe he got china bootleg version? May 24 10:31:54 :> May 24 10:32:01 Nokla :p May 24 10:32:03 buttons are the best ive had o any phones since the 3310 days May 24 10:32:35 I mean where's the buttons like the Pen, Menu key etc. I don't really like the "PIM" keys. May 24 10:32:37 yeah, it could be a nokla :> May 24 10:32:39 the e51 isnt very standard anything... 3g phone without front camera for instance May 24 10:32:48 Reminds me of 6630 May 24 10:32:54 (No front camera) May 24 10:32:58 what does the pen do? May 24 10:33:15 input mode May 24 10:33:26 ie. letters/case/numbers/t9 May 24 10:33:35 Brings up input settings. My bro's N73 and my N80 has it. I use it in games etc. May 24 10:33:40 ...they used to have a dedicated button for THAT? May 24 10:34:12 * KotCzarny looks on his n-gage May 24 10:34:14 yeah May 24 10:34:15 :) May 24 10:34:31 lol May 24 10:34:41 * qwerty12 looks at gold circle on my n-gage where pen button used to be ;) :P May 24 10:35:24 the e51 will do for me. you cant get more specs for that price, basically its a gps receiver and camera away from the n82 May 24 10:35:55 * qwerty12 is waiting for N96. And money to get it :p May 24 10:36:03 http://tonnikala.net/jutut/2003/n-gage/n_gage07_lores.jpg May 24 10:36:04 :) May 24 10:36:05 hmmh May 24 10:36:06 qwerty12: why May 24 10:36:13 qwerty12: it's not such a great device May 24 10:36:21 KotCzarny, I used to have that game :) May 24 10:36:29 glass, I wanted N95 but DVB is nice :) May 24 10:36:38 i have only worms May 24 10:36:41 :) May 24 10:36:42 qwerty12: ah ok.. well that's it's only bonus May 24 10:36:45 N95 is sickingly overprices May 24 10:36:47 and carmageddon May 24 10:36:47 d May 24 10:36:48 ;) May 24 10:36:49 qwerty12: try to hold it before buying.. May 24 10:37:15 KotCzarny, I loved carmageddon, I used to play against my friend with 6630 :) May 24 10:37:26 * qwerty12 looks into mophun emulator for S60 3rd edition May 24 10:37:32 glass, eek, sounds scary... May 24 10:37:45 * KotCzarny has to find another person with a bt symbian phone May 24 10:38:09 Come to UK, we have proper phones. Not this CDMA, BREW etc shit May 24 10:38:11 :p May 24 10:38:21 * KotCzarny has only gsm phones May 24 10:38:22 haha May 24 10:38:22 :) May 24 10:39:11 * qwerty12 too :). Except with UMTS and EDGE :P May 24 10:39:50 hey! is it difficult to compile your own kernel modules for n810? May 24 10:39:55 nope May 24 10:39:59 (does the SDK support that?) May 24 10:40:04 yup May 24 10:40:05 Blastur, easily :) May 24 10:40:16 just do as with regular kernel compile May 24 10:40:17 :) May 24 10:40:24 only in sdk May 24 10:40:26 * qwerty12 remembers compiling asix.ko for thopiekar :) May 24 10:40:30 oh, ok May 24 10:40:37 i basically just want usbserial and ftdi stuff May 24 10:40:43 so its not even a custom made module May 24 10:40:49 You can find those modules in fanoush's pack May 24 10:41:02 Hi =/ May 24 10:42:38 "Black CPU for sale like new" May 24 10:42:39 lol May 24 10:42:59 my cpu is blacker than yours! May 24 10:43:00 ;) May 24 10:44:59 KotCzarny: my cross-compiler is better than the junk used in sbox May 24 10:45:12 :) May 24 10:45:18 I want to take the sandbox and put a real system (e.g. Gentoo) in there May 24 10:45:38 based on uClibC of course May 24 10:45:41 astorm, i'm still waiting for your tests of vfp May 24 10:45:42 :) May 24 10:45:55 KotCzarny: right now, I'm breaking the device ;) May 24 10:46:20 and I don't have anything to test on... but I could May 24 10:46:26 btw. have you done any mods to linux-omap or just used stock ? May 24 10:46:44 KotCzarny: I taken the patches from www.muru.com/n8x0/ May 24 10:46:47 *I've May 24 10:46:48 My mind won't stop racing. =( May 24 10:46:59 as there is a nice keyboard patch May 24 10:47:05 just need to add DE layout May 24 10:47:12 astorm, thx, anything else needed to get it working? May 24 10:47:18 The requested URL /n8x0/ was not found on this server. May 24 10:47:19 :) May 24 10:47:25 n810 May 24 10:47:28 maybe May 24 10:47:30 google May 24 10:47:34 http://www.muru.com/linux/n8x0/ May 24 10:47:36 ;) May 24 10:47:41 ah, yes May 24 10:48:13 BATTERY CHARGING May 24 10:48:14 I think battery charging works if you run the linuxrc as noted May 24 10:48:14 under bluetooth section.. May 24 10:48:16 whoohoo May 24 10:48:17 :) May 24 10:48:31 i think my next mod is getting recent kernel May 24 10:48:31 yes, it does May 24 10:48:32 :> May 24 10:48:32 it's done by bme and automatically May 24 10:49:09 why won't Nokia open bme and dsme... May 24 10:49:21 that code shouldn't be too bad. NDA? May 24 10:49:42 probably May 24 10:49:55 hmm, johnx would be interested in that site May 24 10:49:55 :> May 24 10:50:10 * qwerty12 thinks because of bb5 theory May 24 10:50:16 the best thing is that I don't need to kick the watchdog May 24 10:50:32 =( May 24 10:50:50 scibot: drink some alcohol May 24 10:50:56 something strong May 24 10:51:15 Don't have anything, and I doubt that's a solution May 24 10:51:44 Try chloroform? May 24 10:51:49 heh May 24 10:51:54 Got art to do. May 24 10:52:19 Issue is my mind is racing about solutions to tech issues and it won't stop. =( May 24 10:55:22 hi, did someone compiled maemo-devkit recently? May 24 10:58:45 is it possible to also recompile the entire n810 kernel? May 24 10:59:19 yes May 24 10:59:30 well, excluding binary blobs May 24 10:59:31 :) May 24 11:00:21 ok, so the kernel drivers are open source, except that they load firmware upon start? May 24 11:00:33 ie the n810 platform specific drivers May 24 11:00:54 +/- May 24 11:01:03 +/-? May 24 11:01:08 Blastur, To get started: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/kernel_guide_for_maemo.html . Don't make a new target, just use chinook_armel, much easier. May 24 11:01:47 im not even sure im gonna try it, but it sure would be interesting to do so :) now that i found pre-compiled usbserial stuff, i wouldnt even need to install the sdk May 24 11:02:34 I've done it, to make a "mega" kernel. Not so mega but I wanted a kernel that integrated everything that the community at the time had patched for the kernel. May 24 11:02:39 I'm going to walk around for a bit until my mind stops doing this auto-pilot problem solving bullshit. May 24 11:04:03 i see May 24 11:04:25 well, first step is to head downtown to get a usb female-to-female adapter May 24 11:05:53 qwerty: too bad rotation stuff is not going to be in the official kernel =( May 24 11:06:12 rotation stuff? May 24 11:06:23 RST38h, Yeah :(. It's gonna be more of a pisstake because of SSU May 24 11:09:16 on the other hand, they would have to rehash a lot of UI to make this feature properly supported May 24 11:09:42 You mean, Nokia actually doing some work? :P May 24 11:09:45 :O May 24 11:09:55 I'm still waiting for A2DP from Nokia. May 24 11:11:37 hi all May 24 11:12:56 hi May 24 11:13:35 hey, how do i setup usb ethernet with my n810? May 24 11:14:38 blastur, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howtosetupusbnetworkingdebian/http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howtosetupusbnetworkingdebian/ May 24 11:14:43 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howtosetupusbnetworkingdebian/, sry May 24 11:14:59 thank you May 24 11:15:39 he's mad May 24 11:15:42 I mean, qwerty May 24 11:15:50 you can't fit a mega kernel in the device ;P May 24 11:16:03 you have to modularize most of the things May 24 11:16:10 and can't include everything on initfs May 24 11:17:41 astorm, hrm May 24 11:18:00 isn't linux-omap montavista's project? May 24 11:18:35 no, isn't May 24 11:18:49 at least I never heard it was May 24 11:18:58 http://muru.com/linux/omap/ May 24 11:20:14 you see, it isn't May 24 11:20:26 The May 24 11:20:26 current development for Linux 2.6 is done using the linux-omap May 24 11:20:26 git tree here. May 24 11:20:32 Montavista just had patches for old OMAP1510 May 24 11:20:35 where 'here' is a link to montavista's site May 24 11:20:39 ahm May 24 11:20:47 wrong May 24 11:20:51 it's on git.kernel.org May 24 11:21:23 ok, it's a mirror May 24 11:21:24 :> May 24 11:24:10 I installed the wireless-tools package but I cant run the binaries because I cant find them May 24 11:24:14 where are they located? May 24 11:24:21 be root May 24 11:24:48 KotCzarny: I need to become root to use them? May 24 11:24:53 yes May 24 11:25:06 anyway, they don't work well with the default driver May 24 11:25:26 hmm. if i am to get a memory card for my n810, i should get mini-SD right? May 24 11:25:31 astorm: diablo's initfs contain libiw.so.29 May 24 11:25:53 or is it micro sd? May 24 11:25:54 so what? May 24 11:25:55 so maybe there is some hope for regular tools picking on wifi :) May 24 11:26:03 Blastur: mini SD I think May 24 11:26:10 Blastur: nobody makes miniSD anymore, so get microSD and an adapter May 24 11:26:16 N810 has a miniSD slot May 24 11:26:23 and also HD SC compliant May 24 11:26:38 SDHC May 24 11:26:39 :-) May 24 11:26:48 so what do i tell the guy in the store? :) i want sdhc card? May 24 11:26:54 yes May 24 11:27:02 sdhc microSD card May 24 11:27:11 I recommend Sandisk May 24 11:27:12 have a device with you May 24 11:27:13 :) May 24 11:27:15 AStorm: Ah yes :D May 24 11:27:18 yes, for testing May 24 11:27:34 or microSDHC as they call them sometimes May 24 11:28:54 if the SD card is >2GB, it's SDHC May 24 11:28:59 not true May 24 11:29:04 :) May 24 11:29:18 true true May 24 11:29:37 KotCzarny: show me otherwise May 24 11:30:45 Some non-SDHC full size SD cards were available in 4GB capacities May 24 11:31:19 full size... hearing crickets? May 24 11:31:20 I doubt there are any microSD 4GB non-SDHC cards available however May 24 11:31:27 :-) May 24 11:31:31 just clarifying the points... May 24 11:31:39 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820163159 May 24 11:31:41 maybe this one May 24 11:31:46 no sdhc on label May 24 11:31:47 :) May 24 11:31:58 hmm, im trying to insert an old 32 mb mini-sd card, but it wont fit ;) May 24 11:32:06 it's like a millimeter too big May 24 11:32:09 or im doing something wrong.. May 24 11:32:43 the manual isn't too clear.. it says "keep the rounded corner to the left and the pins facing down".. that would mean inserting the card on its side?! May 24 11:33:11 blastur, try trimming lock switch? May 24 11:33:13 :) May 24 11:33:16 also, the "lid" or whatever doesn't come off, i can pull it out a bit, but not remove it completely. to insert stuff i have to bend it slightly down May 24 11:33:27 lock switch? May 24 11:33:29 Blastur: it's not supposed to come off completely May 24 11:34:18 the opening is just not wide enough May 24 11:34:20 astorm: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0507/05072804pretec_4gbcard.asp May 24 11:34:27 another one without sdhc logo May 24 11:35:03 Blastur: it is, you must insert it straight May 24 11:35:19 actually, i think this is a SD card May 24 11:35:26 * Blastur slams head into desk May 24 11:35:37 Blastur: you win ;P May 24 11:35:42 afternoon pplz May 24 11:35:44 * lcuk2 rubs the sleep out of his eyes May 24 11:35:57 astorm: acknowledge you were wrong :P May 24 11:36:00 hi lcuk May 24 11:36:08 got a question, fwiw. can I trust debian/etc 'arm' architecture packages to maybe work on maemo os2008 ? May 24 11:36:10 mornin kot :) May 24 11:36:14 er .. debian/etch I mean May 24 11:36:18 aka debian/stable heh May 24 11:36:25 gimmel: yes, but debian is a dependency hell May 24 11:36:33 and not arm, but armel May 24 11:36:39 i thought windows dlls were worst offenders May 24 11:36:41 KotCzarny: heh, awesume and yet not hehe May 24 11:36:44 armel, thank you May 24 11:37:02 ~ May 24 11:37:08 ~~ May 24 11:37:10 Every moment in which I'm called upon is torture. May 24 11:37:15 lcuk: in order, windows dlls, rpm, deb May 24 11:37:24 kill, infobot, kill May 24 11:37:31 lol storm May 24 11:37:37 infobot, kill infobot May 24 11:37:37 * infobot shoots a hyper-charged anti-quark gun at infobot May 24 11:38:03 infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, May 24 11:38:04 * infobot shoots a super-inverse pseudoquark gun at infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, kill infobot, May 24 11:38:11 *innocent* May 24 11:38:11 * gimmal watches the anti-quark gun dissolve itself in infobot's hands muahaha May 24 11:38:16 i hate asking technical q's when im bleary but how do i rename a folder full of files from something like "liq.20080417_011936_hello world.page" to "liq.20080417_011936_.page" theres about 200 files and i wanna get rid of the crappy title bit May 24 11:38:24 destroy destroooooy May 24 11:38:41 lcuk, wanna my rename script? May 24 11:38:42 :) May 24 11:38:51 lcuk: try mmv May 24 11:38:59 lcuk: I'd just do some bash loopiness May 24 11:39:04 perl has a rename thing doesn't it May 24 11:39:09 php/perl is preferred May 24 11:39:10 :) May 24 11:39:12 this is direct on device May 24 11:39:22 lcuk: sshfs May 24 11:39:23 ;) May 24 11:39:24 can it be done without installing anything else? May 24 11:39:32 you have sshd on device May 24 11:39:36 yer May 24 11:39:38 you have access to it's fs May 24 11:39:46 lemme see the script, ill boil it down May 24 11:40:05 but windows at this end, i might have accidentally vaped my vmware.. May 24 11:40:26 for f in *.page; do echo mv -v "$f" "${f%_*}.page"; done May 24 11:40:31 i have cleaned off my profile and culled about 200gb of data (do it before a holiday) May 24 11:40:32 http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/rnm May 24 11:40:43 lcuk: mmv "liq.*hello_world.page" "licq.#1.page" # should do it, afaik, if'n mmv is installed May 24 11:40:45 but I don't actually recall if those replacements work on the device or not May 24 11:40:53 for your particular example try: rnm 'hello_world' '' May 24 11:41:06 http://community.livejournal.com/detskiy_dvor/ May 24 11:41:08 ill make a copy and give it/them all a try, thanks chaps ill see what works May 24 11:41:11 enjoy May 24 11:41:19 it's a perl, so you should be able to do it on device May 24 11:41:30 Most of these are just asking for a human sacrifice btw May 24 11:41:58 goat blood and a porcupine liver will do May 24 11:42:04 sshitfs, yeah I've used that, doesn't microsoft make it? May 24 11:42:12 :^P> May 24 11:42:15 sp3000: but what if it doesn't and one of Them gets pissed off? May 24 11:42:55 infobot will antiquark Them for you? dunno infobot personally, but he sounds like a serious dude ... :^)> May 24 11:43:17 * gimmal clams up May 24 11:43:21 lcuk: my script doesn't do anything without -w flag though, so you can see what it would try to do before it destroys your files May 24 11:43:27 (or if regexp is wrong :) May 24 11:43:42 * gimmal mentions mmv again for pattern renaming fwiw May 24 11:43:50 excellent thanks kot :) safety first May 24 11:44:08 -sh: mmv: not found May 24 11:44:19 thanks for the mention gimmal :) May 24 11:44:32 lcuk: hehe, yeah, but I'd guess it's available from your distro - or you're trying this on a nokia dev? May 24 11:44:41 direct on nokia May 24 11:44:48 like everything else May 24 11:45:02 ok; pardon my insistence on attention! >:) May 24 11:45:03 i dont really have linux here, ive evolved May 24 11:46:00 * gimmal looks for lcuk's third arm, gets poked in the eye May 24 11:46:53 hey! thats a leg not an arm May 24 11:47:53 * gimmal gets a shoe, a glove, and something unmentionable for lcuk's third appendage >^) May 24 11:48:22 * lcuk calls the police on gimmal May 24 11:48:27 * gimmal then departs from the vicinity, stealthily, muhahah ninja May 24 11:48:48 i was a ninja on holiday May 24 11:49:22 we had a treetop rope obstacle course May 24 11:52:33 Go tell me this one does not eat humans: http://ljplus.ru//img3/n/o/nordprod/park2.JPG May 24 11:52:54 won't fit May 24 11:54:00 sp3000, why does ${f%_*}.page work? is that a regex looking for the final _ ? May 24 11:54:37 * lcuk would like to understand - ive just run it with just the echo part and no mv yet May 24 11:55:24 lcuk, don't use bash May 24 11:55:31 it will bite you on spaces May 24 11:55:32 :) May 24 11:55:38 and weird chars May 24 11:56:10 and bash doesn't use regexps May 24 11:56:20 it uses it's own pattern matching May 24 11:56:26 well it worked.. May 24 11:56:26 incompatible with regexps May 24 11:56:27 :> May 24 11:56:44 * lcuk probably just renamed every single file in entire file sys May 24 11:56:48 but it worked ;) May 24 11:58:17 * gimmal grumbles at the shoddy wlan card built into his lappy - iwl3945 support for it is not so great in kernel 2.2.24, and though it's said to be better in linux 2.2.26, that is not yeat out of the release-candidate stage. /me also prefers irc instead of blogging, beg pardon May 24 11:58:21 <{abo}> bash uses globbing. ${%f_*} is the same as $(sed <<<"$f" "s/_.*//;" ) i think. May 24 11:58:36 <{abo}> s/_.*$//; i mean May 24 11:58:46 can wlan the n810 under vista. yech. and not under linux. drat May 24 11:59:07 {abo} thanks for the clarification, its as clear as mud now May 24 11:59:12 haven't tried running vista under qemu. afraid of it, mildly <:^| May 24 12:01:35 * gimmal awes at the bash brahmans in channel |^)> May 24 12:01:47 jeeesus, even reformatting your perl script makes it heavy going on the eyes. May 24 12:01:53 ;) May 24 12:01:57 * lcuk makes a mental note never to look at perl again May 24 12:02:06 yeah, php is nicer May 24 12:02:10 but also bigger May 24 12:02:19 i thought bigger was better May 24 12:02:25 and also note my perl skills are puny May 24 12:02:41 real wizard would blow your mind away May 24 12:02:42 ;) May 24 12:03:06 * gimmal considers rebooting to 2.6.18. try using the old ipw3945 module. May 24 12:03:19 php is evil May 24 12:03:22 perl is eviler May 24 12:03:27 ok, that didn't take long to consider. hasta luego May 24 12:03:28 go Python! May 24 12:03:34 python is a cow May 24 12:03:34 right, thanks you lot - ive got the files renamed, ideas now have no title :) May 24 12:03:35 :> May 24 12:03:41 KotCzarny: heavy, yes ;) May 24 12:03:43 VB FTW! May 24 12:03:47 but is faster and has more features May 24 12:03:57 for speed i use c May 24 12:03:58 :) May 24 12:03:58 ruby would be fine if it worked better ;P May 24 12:04:18 ok which one of you lot just picked up the rollup i just made? May 24 12:04:31 rollup? May 24 12:04:37 cig May 24 12:04:40 cig ? May 24 12:05:04 handmade cigarette May 24 12:05:09 * KotCzarny uses only blotters May 24 12:05:38 oh, it was yours... ^^ May 24 12:07:02 for some reason now my rollup is called liq_20080524_1306_rollup.page May 24 12:07:23 lcuk: what are you trying to do? May 24 12:07:54 keep in mind regexps treat . * + $ ^ [ ] ( ) as special chars May 24 12:08:11 and some others :> May 24 12:08:28 nothing - ive done the rename - i gave all my sketches a default name which included "hello world" as the title, now i want to use real titles and have all new pages title-less. ive got about 200 or so that have stupid titles May 24 12:09:03 * lcuk changes the code now to stop the sillyness ;) May 24 12:09:27 :D my shed is still there May 24 12:10:27 <{abo}> Uhm, is there a way to start the default text editor thing from the command line? May 24 12:10:39 <{abo}> I want to edit a text file in /etc/ as root May 24 12:10:42 $($EDITOR) May 24 12:10:44 ;) May 24 12:10:50 or just $EDITOR May 24 12:11:07 or vi /etc/file May 24 12:11:12 ;) May 24 12:11:18 * KotCzarny is not evil May 24 12:11:35 <{abo}> darn May 24 12:11:45 <{abo}> I prefer the GUI text editor to vi, never figure out how to use that. May 24 12:11:49 KotCzarny: really? May 24 12:11:56 {abo}: a good time to do so May 24 12:11:58 astorm: sometimes May 24 12:12:03 if you're lame, install and use nano May 24 12:12:11 mcedit! May 24 12:12:12 :) May 24 12:12:37 <{abo}> osso_notes /path/to/text/file doesn't open it :( May 24 12:13:52 <{abo}> Meh May 24 12:14:07 <{abo}> nano is not on garage :/ May 24 12:14:21 <{abo}> Bah, I guess I'll try vi May 24 12:15:27 yawn May 24 12:16:23 has anyone hacked hildon to remove the bluetooth timeout? May 24 12:16:43 l2ping it ? May 24 12:17:23 and if you got an apple kb, then it's braindead a little May 24 12:17:25 :> May 24 12:17:54 <{abo}> That was abvously the wrong button to push. *grumbles about vi* May 24 12:18:04 * KotCzarny beeps at abo May 24 12:18:27 {abo} i use pygtkeditor May 24 12:18:39 it takes parameters May 24 12:18:47 and does syntax highlighting May 24 12:18:58 and available for device May 24 12:19:33 but will it bled? May 24 12:19:35 blend May 24 12:21:11 <{abo}> lcuk: Thanks, might try it. :) May 24 12:21:19 <{abo}> Need to install some dev tools May 24 12:21:48 vi rocks. hrmmm, google's is finding the bluetooth complaint not the solutions heh May 24 12:22:01 mysc ;) May 24 12:22:21 mysc, i'm curious, will l2ping keep it alive? May 24 12:23:29 maybe, but rather than a "keepalive" ping script i rather patch the timeout May 24 12:23:39 unlikely May 24 12:23:47 unless you have access to apple firmware builder May 24 12:23:48 ;) May 24 12:24:07 it's not a problem on the apple side... May 24 12:24:49 l2ping with a interval of timeout -5 should work May 24 12:25:06 *an May 24 12:25:47 what's the command to see the mac of the devices connected? does bt have an 'ifconfig' ? May 24 12:26:12 how do i get the opposite of basename? ie the path to PWD excluding the basename May 24 12:26:17 i don't know what's installed May 24 12:26:20 lcuk: dirname May 24 12:26:37 thx once again :) May 24 12:26:51 lcuk: you will be billed at the end of the year May 24 12:26:51 ;) May 24 12:27:27 dont worry im rearranging the intro and putting notices back :) its all gonna be scrolly May 24 12:27:32 :) May 24 12:27:43 make an avi from it May 24 12:27:48 then play before sleep May 24 12:27:49 ;) May 24 12:28:20 i was testing the camera last night and as long as i can affix it into place ill be making a movie and hopefully uploading before ltag so people can see May 24 12:28:31 :) May 24 12:28:48 for movies bigger storage is essential May 24 12:28:49 ;) May 24 12:28:56 not on device.. May 24 12:29:02 oh May 24 12:29:03 :) May 24 12:29:09 but animated sketches are gonna be great May 24 12:29:12 Kot, i have to install some bt utils, no l2ping on this maemo May 24 12:29:31 * lcuk sees LOTS of potential May 24 12:29:35 mysc, yeah, that's what i suspected May 24 12:30:12 lcuk: you want to detrinize adobe flash or m$ ppt ? May 24 12:30:13 ;) May 24 12:30:28 neither May 24 12:31:16 oh shag! May 24 12:31:23 detronize May 24 12:31:49 ive been playing and tweaking and expecting files to exist in a folder listing and wondering why they weren't. damn cached listing May 24 12:32:02 ive got about 20 there now.. May 24 12:32:06 :) May 24 12:35:28 backtick is v powerful :) May 24 12:35:37 backtick? May 24 12:35:48 `dirname $PWD` May 24 12:35:53 :) May 24 12:35:58 beware of spaces May 24 12:37:06 yer i will - i had to adjust kcup since /tmp is only small on device - im writing directly to the backup folder now May 24 12:38:25 Kot, thanks for pointing me in the right dir, bluez-utils has the hcitool May 24 12:38:27 lcuk: you can mod the initfs startup script May 24 12:38:38 no need at all May 24 12:38:57 lcuk: i have removed stupid 512kb option when mounting tmpfs May 24 12:39:26 now i can go ~60mb on /tmp May 24 12:39:37 but isnt tmp memory? May 24 12:39:40 yes May 24 12:39:48 but it frees it if you don't use it May 24 12:40:13 so if you had 10mb file in /tmp, then removed it May 24 12:40:20 mem is returned to the sys May 24 12:40:47 and ram is so much faster than flash ;) May 24 12:40:49 like the dynamic ram disk on amiga May 24 12:40:54 yeah May 24 12:46:48 kot, that would have been great before, but looking at kcup it never deleted files :P May 24 12:46:58 :> May 24 12:47:01 so tmp would have grown, the limit was useful May 24 12:47:12 adding rm is trivial May 24 12:47:16 also May 24 12:47:17 i would have never noticed why machine got slower and slower and slower May 24 12:47:20 i know :P May 24 12:47:25 default limit is 1/2 of ram May 24 12:47:30 its done now and completely bypasses everything May 24 12:47:58 and in the intermediate bit i had superdad duties to do May 24 12:48:05 :) May 24 12:53:37 Kot, wonderous, just wrote the following one-liner: l2ping `hcitool con | grep ACL | awk '{print $3}'` May 24 12:53:58 :) May 24 12:54:03 add interval too May 24 12:54:17 yeah, will add an interval and plop it in bg... May 24 12:54:19 and check if it really helps May 24 12:54:41 because i don't know if ping affects idle timeout May 24 12:55:15 * gimmal says phuck the hardware the ipw3945 module uses, phuck MSI's selection of wlan cards *and* sound cards for their laptops, and resolves to order a PCMCI wlan card May 24 12:55:24 grrrrrr May 24 12:55:37 gimmal: what are you trying to do? May 24 12:55:39 gimmal, lotta anger :) May 24 12:55:44 works fine under vista, doesn't work period under linux May 24 12:55:44 and why are you doing it wrong? May 24 12:55:45 :) May 24 12:55:50 false May 24 12:55:59 KotCzarny: tryna get my brandnew N810 to be able to use the inet through my box running linux May 24 12:56:06 worked for my girl May 24 12:56:10 KotCzarny: dunno if it's even possible with this wlan card May 24 12:56:20 and she had lousy acer with ipw3945 May 24 12:56:21 :) May 24 12:56:33 * gimmal has a box with a wlan card that req's the scrappy ipw3945 (in older kernels) or iwl3945 (in recent kernels) suppt May 24 12:56:41 hm. maybe it's this card May 24 12:56:48 KotCzarny: don't ever call that lousy May 24 12:56:54 astorm: acer? May 24 12:56:56 I have one and it works *excellent8 May 24 12:56:57 :> May 24 12:56:58 yep May 24 12:57:09 i hate *shiny* laptops May 24 12:57:10 :) May 24 12:57:10 TM 4230 May 24 12:57:19 it's not shiny, hehe May 24 12:57:19 1) card doesn't support wlan "Master" mode; 2) card shows funny results under iwconfig, when the modules are loaded; 3) when the box shows wlan0 as being "up", the n810 still can't find it May 24 12:57:29 gimmal: doesn't May 24 12:57:33 no funny results May 24 12:57:35 works vs n810 May 24 12:57:37 :-) May 24 12:57:38 ;) May 24 12:57:47 gimmal: try another distro? May 24 12:57:53 get newest package? May 24 12:57:55 Yes, Gentoo wins. May 24 12:58:04 slackware worked too May 24 12:58:05 :) May 24 12:58:06 802.11n sounds intriguing anyway - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/802.11n May 24 12:58:13 KotCzarny: hehe, funny :^)> May 24 12:58:19 * gimmal is pretty well set on using debian May 24 12:58:31 then take the pain like a man May 24 12:58:32 :P May 24 12:58:38 it's your own decision May 24 12:58:38 :) May 24 12:58:45 I wonder why they picked .deb instead of .ian as the extension ;P May 24 12:58:51 * gimmal wants to take it like a man with a gun, add a few new "ports" to this box. muhahahahaha May 24 12:59:08 just get a new kernel May 24 12:59:25 what does iwconfig wlan0 mode master May 24 12:59:31 would if I could, but 2.4.26 isn't available yet 'cept as -rc May 24 12:59:33 or whatever your wifi interface name is... May 24 12:59:40 mysc: error, mode not supported May 24 12:59:43 gimmal: 2.4.26? it's oooold ;) May 24 12:59:45 sol then May 24 12:59:56 gimmal: it has to be set on wmaster0 and not wlan0 May 24 12:59:56 er, whatever.26 hehe May 24 13:00:02 2.6.26 May 24 13:00:07 there was a table with drivers and modes supported and development status...forgot url though May 24 13:00:10 AStorm: ah. ok. thanks May 24 13:00:22 ;) May 24 13:00:33 the way this is going, dunno if that'll fix it, but I will sure as heck try it May 24 13:00:44 ok, where can I dl Win XP Home or Win 98? May 24 13:00:51 astorm: amule.org May 24 13:01:09 preloaded with worms? thank you ;P May 24 13:01:17 never noticed any worms May 24 13:01:23 just use some hash page May 24 13:01:52 if iwconfig wlan0 mode master gives error then i fear the driver/chipset doesn't support master mode May 24 13:02:00 also every version of xp comes with a worm, it's calles m$ update :P May 24 13:02:10 forking how do I get it to be wmaster0 instead of wlan0 i'm wondering May 24 13:02:14 no problem with that worm May 24 13:02:19 I want to run it in a VM May 24 13:02:21 reboot? May 24 13:02:23 to play Planescape Torment May 24 13:02:24 Kot, no...the worm is xp itself. msupdate is simply the worm update feature May 24 13:02:27 as Wine fails somewhat May 24 13:02:39 astorm: what version of wine? May 24 13:02:44 1.0_rc1 May 24 13:02:45 have you checked app db ? May 24 13:02:46 changed "alias wlan0 ipw3945" to "alias wmaster0 ipw3945", then killed the ipw3945 daemon and removed the module, then reinstalled. still shows up as wlan0 May 24 13:02:53 KotCzarny: it's gold May 24 13:02:55 sometimes older versions work better May 24 13:02:57 crashes after some time ;P May 24 13:03:04 the only that will is 0.9.15 May 24 13:03:05 gimmal: what daemon? May 24 13:03:07 and that's ancient May 24 13:03:07 what distrib gimmal? May 24 13:03:10 you have old driver May 24 13:03:15 KotCzarny: ipw3945d May 24 13:03:18 mysc: debian etch May 24 13:03:18 newest doesn't require a daemon May 24 13:03:19 mysc: Debian, yes, you guessed it May 24 13:03:28 gimmal: indeed, use iwlwifi May 24 13:03:36 more stable May 24 13:03:44 KotCzarny: indeed; iwl3945 I had doubts about, for this card, so rebooted to 2.6.18 May 24 13:03:54 astorm, you might be able to find a qemu image around somewhere... May 24 13:04:14 erk, forking udev rules May 24 13:04:42 that's probably what I have to change - the udev rule I had to *write*, even to get it to show up as wlan0 (instead of wlan0_rename -- which, without that new udev rule, it showed up as under iwconfig) May 24 13:04:57 yawn May 24 13:05:01 ...to get it to show up as wmaster0 May 24 13:05:08 grr May 24 13:05:11 renaming won't help you May 24 13:05:13 :) May 24 13:05:24 it should create it itself May 24 13:05:34 KotCzarny: someone said it has to be called wmaster0 to support 'Master' mode May 24 13:05:55 gimmal, no, iwconfig should force that, the error means it is not supported May 24 13:05:55 * gimmal doesn't know what it should create, but it doesn't seem willing to do much May 24 13:06:06 yeah, it's like having wifi0 and wlan0 and one being raw and other with wifi ext :P May 24 13:06:18 eh, hm May 24 13:06:34 get new kernel May 24 13:06:36 get new driver May 24 13:06:43 iwconfig wmaster0: no such device ... I'm not understanding something y'all know hehe May 24 13:07:05 * gimmal resovles again to get a new card ... one with 802.11n suppt. not pricey either May 24 13:07:15 good enough May 24 13:07:17 :) May 24 13:08:11 so how could I get the card to be in Master mode? I mean, how do I get it to show up as wmaster0, is that what I should be asking? :^) May 24 13:09:28 gimmal, have you tried to set up ad-hoc mode? May 24 13:09:40 nmind, changing the udev mode did it .. May 24 13:09:45 er .. udev rule May 24 13:10:00 mysc: yep, was completely failing there. this box showed it as "up", but the n810 couldn't find it May 24 13:10:32 fwiw, what "access point" am I supposed to use in ad-hoc mode? didn't understand the iwconfig docs on it. should I make up a access point MAC? or use the MAC of the device I want to connect to the wlan? or otherwise? May 24 13:11:06 in ad-hoc mode you need only essid May 24 13:11:25 and optionally key May 24 13:11:42 ok, thanks May 24 13:12:37 ok, can't set Master mode even if it's called wmaster0 May 24 13:12:50 as i said May 24 13:12:55 that's only a name gimmal May 24 13:12:56 you can name it eth0 May 24 13:13:02 but it won't be ethernet May 24 13:13:06 if iwconfig master barfed then the driver doesn't support it May 24 13:13:09 ok May 24 13:13:11 arghhhhhhhhhhhhh damn clock skew, im editing files in windows and when they get scped back to device they are an hour behind so make wont do diddly on them May 24 13:13:19 thought someone said it had to be called wmaster0 for Master mode to work May 24 13:13:31 lcuk: don't let windows touch your files? :> May 24 13:13:39 set ad hoc, set channel, set essid, then give it an ip on the lan. then run a dhcpd to provide your n810 with an ip May 24 13:13:39 no problemo; appreciating the help May 24 13:13:55 or name them using time and date May 24 13:14:22 n810 is still not finding it May 24 13:14:33 gimmal, yes, it has to be called, but it's the driver that's creating device under that name May 24 13:14:37 what's the ouput from iwconfig? May 24 13:15:11 KotCzarny: ok, I think I almost see :^) would probably make sense to me if I had a card that supported it, and then if I watched it do so hehe May 24 13:15:27 mysc: I can put it in #paste if you would like to see May 24 13:15:37 gimmal: pastebin.com May 24 13:15:38 :) May 24 13:28:50 ok, it looks like the interface is working right now, now how the heck is the n810 getting its ip address? it's not coming from my dhcpd May 24 13:28:57 well thats a little better, now the skew is 45seconds May 24 13:29:07 *cough* which is probably because dhcpd isn't listening on wmaster0 May 24 13:29:16 gimmal, so setting a channel was the ticket? May 24 13:29:26 yes, you need dhcpd on that iface :) May 24 13:29:53 the interface to date and time on the device does not allow me to configure or see seconds, how can i set the clock exactly May 24 13:30:10 lcuk: on linux? May 24 13:30:14 on device May 24 13:30:16 810 May 24 13:30:19 on linux. May 24 13:30:22 use 'date' May 24 13:30:23 yer.. May 24 13:30:23 ;) May 24 13:30:56 for syntax try: man date May 24 13:31:02 or google "man date" May 24 13:31:13 :P -sh: man: not found May 24 13:31:23 ^ May 24 13:31:28 man date, eh? wayhey :p May 24 13:31:53 good job google knows the answer - i hope the police dont think im looking for a date with a man May 24 13:32:17 /bin/retutime ? May 24 13:32:33 thats hw clock May 24 13:32:37 write terrierist few times to cover up :P May 24 13:32:50 oh, i thought thats what he wanted May 24 13:33:52 yes, i want to set the global clock on my device to be correct. the interface only allows me to configure minutes May 24 13:34:13 ntpdate or rdate should work too May 24 13:34:15 ;) May 24 13:34:22 and is much easier to achieve May 24 13:34:25 date -s "Sat May 24 08:30:22 EDT 2008" May 24 13:34:28 or thereabouts May 24 13:34:30 eg, keep getting "network connection error" from the n810 now, on trying to connect to this box May 24 13:35:39 thanks mysc, the quotes helped, everytime i tried it without it didnt work.. May 24 13:35:52 lcuk, i told you, watch for spaces May 24 13:36:05 anyone might know what "RTNETLINK answers: File exists" means when I ifup wlan0? May 24 13:36:23 gimmal: probably upping already upped if May 24 13:36:38 nope May 24 13:36:58 if is definitely down before the ifup call May 24 13:37:13 how can you tell? May 24 13:37:19 ok, finally once a connection with no errors. doubting the proxy settings will work, but we'll see hehe May 24 13:37:23 KotCzarny: ifconfig hehe May 24 13:38:05 shytte, ok, been having some flatulence of the cortex here. nuked the wmaster0 interfaces config, but didn't carry over the channels setting to the wlan0 config . doh May 24 13:38:22 hurray! i finally compile cleanly May 24 13:38:47 HI May 24 13:38:50 Kot, i keep forgetting i am testing the bt timeout and i use the kb for some quick thing... May 24 13:38:52 woo, big blue bar with channel '5' set heh May 24 13:38:52 lcuk: compiling yourself? May 24 13:38:54 :) May 24 13:39:03 i have some question May 24 13:39:17 where is VLC player? May 24 13:39:23 no, just editing in windows with big kb and building cleanly from device May 24 13:39:26 mysc: no problem, if i go to sleep just remind me later May 24 13:39:28 ~vlc May 24 13:39:29 hmm... vlc is the VideoLAN Client. It's a MPEG2 client/server program for broadcasting. It can also be used standalone as an normal MPEG2/DVD player. See http://www.videolan.org, or apt-gettable. May 24 13:39:34 there. May 24 13:39:52 apt-get vlc? May 24 13:40:06 hell no May 24 13:40:10 search May 24 13:40:14 anyone else waiting for sling player like me? May 24 13:40:18 ~itt May 24 13:40:19 [itt] the forums on internettablettalk.com ( http://internettablettalk.com/forums ) May 24 13:40:22 what's sling May 24 13:40:31 slingbox May 24 13:40:32 it's a tv over intet contraption May 24 13:40:33 woo, and getting some dhcpd activity. May 24 13:40:33 google May 24 13:40:38 y'all thanks for the help May 24 13:40:56 Try HAVA mysc May 24 13:41:06 I just set mine up. May 24 13:41:25 Works with N8x0 May 24 13:41:28 lcuk: do you know that windows can mangle your files? May 24 13:41:29 :> May 24 13:41:30 GAN, i already have a slingbox though :( May 24 13:41:55 Then bitch at the to make a client May 24 13:41:55 fwiw, gdhcpd is *really* convenient May 24 13:42:00 lil dhcpd config app May 24 13:42:20 GAN, thanks for the head's up on hava though May 24 13:42:35 mysc, get an s60 phone :p. my friend has slingbox on his... May 24 13:43:14 qwerty, yeh, i know other mobile clients exist. the n8x0 is such a natural viewer though... May 24 13:43:49 true. except for the epson :/ May 24 13:45:05 :| May 24 13:46:03 hey.. im back! with a usb female-to-female adaptor. when i plugin my usb gps, it says "USB device not supported" (after I used usbcontrol to make my n810 an USB host) May 24 13:46:04 what gives? May 24 13:46:15 qwerty12, your nick seems very familiar, maybe the bt-mouse thread i was reading last night? May 24 13:46:28 it also says "unable to connect, no filesystem" May 24 13:46:32 click again May 24 13:46:35 "host" May 24 13:46:51 mysc, i'm the same person on itt as on irc :) May 24 13:47:16 ah cool. iirc you got the mouse working. was it you who gave me the links last night? May 24 13:47:24 can I edit the menus? May 24 13:47:53 mysc, how many times? it keeps spamming a little popup dialog saing "USB device not supported" :) In usbcontrol i see "Bus 001 device 043: Id Prolific technology inc PL2303 serial port" May 24 13:47:54 mysc, oh, that cant have been me :). don't have a mouse :/ May 24 13:48:33 Blastur, are right modules insmodded? May 24 13:48:36 qwerty, oh ok. you must have been in some other thread i was reading intently for some solution. May 24 13:49:06 i just want someone to confirm that they actually have a bt mouse working before i drop $50 on one... May 24 13:49:11 :\ May 24 13:49:24 qwerty12_N800, i've inserted usbserial and pl2303 .. they show when i do 'lsmod' May 24 13:49:29 * qwerty12_N800 is using app manager 1.2.1.11 instead of 1.2.1.10 which is latest diablo version. haven't noticed anything new :/ May 24 13:50:03 Blastur, not sure then. do you get any new devices under /dev? May 24 13:51:20 lemme try again May 24 13:52:48 night people May 24 13:53:05 night May 24 13:53:17 (afternoon :p) May 24 13:53:44 yeah, it shows up as /dev/ttyUSB0 qwerty12_N800 .. and i see messages from pl2303 in dmesg saying everything went well. I also see "hub1-0: 100 ma power budget left" and some state messages from the hub May 24 13:53:58 i doubt this battery powered GPS draws much power, the usb conn is only for serial May 24 13:54:12 so it probably reports as 0 mA or something :) May 24 13:54:22 KotCzarny, yes, but the editors i am using respects cr/lf alignment :) this ain't no notepad May 24 13:54:42 damn, nite kot May 24 13:54:45 Blastur, Try that device in maemo mapper, if it works, then ignore the error :) May 24 13:55:04 kinda hard to ignore, it pops up as a message on-screen every second May 24 13:55:05 ;) May 24 13:55:20 just like you get a "Connected to WLAN" message when you go online May 24 13:55:28 or load an app it says "Loading .." May 24 13:55:31 that kind of popup May 24 13:55:42 eek, kill it :p May 24 13:58:54 do i need to do something else than using usbcontrol to make the n810 understand its not a slave, and tries to act as a memory storage? May 24 14:03:01 <[jamez]> anybody know where I can find docs on ruby-maemo? :) May 24 14:03:06 what does cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode give? May 24 14:04:50 I wonder where alterego disappeared to. . . . May 24 14:04:53 hopefully, host. May 24 14:31:56 hi GA :). thanks are in order the caselogic was perfect May 24 14:32:11 It's a disturbingly good fit May 24 14:32:19 yeah, as if it were made for it May 24 14:32:36 thanks again for the help, folks; n810 over wlan working great now May 24 14:32:45 im going to buy some foam (like wirestripping width) to put in it. May 24 14:34:21 woah, my nokia just rebooted for no apparent reason May 24 14:34:41 Watchdog May 24 14:34:46 Something important crashed May 24 14:35:00 hrmmm, shit, how can i look at the logs? May 24 14:35:16 or if the cpu went really overboard :/ May 24 14:35:30 mysc, I wouldn't worry about it, personally. May 24 14:35:36 mysc, install syslogd for next time :p May 24 14:35:38 it rebooted again....when i tried to ssh to it May 24 14:35:55 the only thing i've done is installed bluez-tools-test May 24 14:36:52 yep, it's fucked. ssh'ing to it reboots May 24 14:37:11 apt-get install ksyslogd May 24 14:37:26 cat /var/log/syslog.old May 24 14:37:42 see what it says when it gets rebooted May 24 14:38:31 it just shuts down. but i saw the battery was low on this last startup. but the charger was in...could that still cause a reboot if it was almost out? May 24 14:39:08 * qwerty12_N800 "software resets" are 6 according to ftd May 24 14:39:40 mysc, if charger is in, it starts up again when it shuts off May 24 14:41:09 yeah, that's what it was doing. i figured if charger was in it would operating power from ac... May 24 14:44:47 johnx should really be commended, this debian port is starting to look really good... May 24 14:45:48 hehe, i haven't had a chance to try it for a while, i need to fix my diablo initfs... :/ May 24 14:46:19 * RST38h read "diabolic initfs" May 24 14:50:03 is there a working release of kismet for the n800? May 24 14:51:32 i believe this must be the most commonly asked question here May 24 14:51:51 there is. May 24 14:52:05 RST38h: really? May 24 14:53:57 http://www.kismetwireless.net/blog/index.php?entry=/kismet/entry-1201806039.txt May 24 14:54:52 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=162213&postcount=108 May 24 14:57:11 RST38h: cool. Thanks. Have the 'beta packages' been released? May 24 15:04:50 w00t fbreader supports project gutenberg etexts, it appears; edgar rice burroughs on an n810, "classic" and "modern" in some sort of a mix, groovin May 24 15:06:02 hi May 24 15:06:27 gimmal, did my ad-hoc suggestion pan out? May 24 15:07:51 I just read this article, http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=14046 , that says microb will still be based on firefox 3 a1 in Diablo? Please tell me thats wrong soeone. May 24 15:07:54 mysc: it looks like it. fwiw, it looks like the final problem was that I hadn't set an wlan channel on the interface -- had assumed the thing could automatically assume one, bad idea I realize :^)> May 24 15:08:17 yeh, i suggested 5 but use whichever is least used in your area May 24 15:08:30 explicitly setting the essid gives me an idea, though, to keep different essids for when the box is running vista, and when it's running linux - have to use different proxy configs on each, it seems May 24 15:09:03 WorkingOnWise, they didn't have time to merge trunk with MicroB for Diablo May 24 15:09:14 It is about twice as fast on JS as Chinook, though May 24 15:09:18 Flash is faster, too May 24 15:09:40 mysc: sorry, had trouble remembering your screen nic ;^)> May 24 15:09:48 So there's not no improvement, it's just not as significant as it might've been May 24 15:10:03 "lxdoom successfully installed", man that's nice to see May 24 15:10:16 yeah i was on #paste :) May 24 15:10:26 They're on track for merging with trunk (and a much better FF3 once it hits final) for Diablo+1, though May 24 15:10:34 which may come sooner than you think with SSU May 24 15:10:56 will the new os upgrades be n8x0? May 24 15:11:06 If it's really a HUGE issue, you can either download Navi's svn version of libgtkmozembed or compile it yourself (since that one's a little out of date) May 24 15:11:17 mysc, it's OS2008.2 May 24 15:11:31 or OS2008.1, depending on how you look at it. May 24 15:12:37 GAN8001 but Diablo will allow individual app updates right? I.e. If someone updates microb, we can install that update without a reflash, right? May 24 15:13:00 Yes, technically May 24 15:13:15 * qwerty12 is such a fuckwit. I can't remember how I removed the stupid nokia legal message in the chinook app manager. I want to do it for the diablo version. May 24 15:13:15 But I'm not clear on the administrative policy on that May 24 15:14:05 WorkingOnWise, part of it, too, is that the beta/rc releases weren't quite up-to-snuff for merging yet. May 24 15:19:55 GAN8001 - I'm hoping for a fully implemented flash capability so I can use the N800 camera on websites that ar built to do that. From what I can gather, it is a microb issue. May 24 15:20:26 It's not May 24 15:20:30 It's an Adobe issue May 24 15:21:42 Maybe it is over my head too far, but why does the issue show on the microb browser but not any others (Firefox 2 or 3, and IE) May 24 15:22:36 IE runs on N800s now? May 24 15:22:49 You have Flash working in Minefield? May 24 15:23:13 WorkingOnWise, Try actually using Linux instead of Windows ;) May 24 15:23:19 lol...no. I'm saying, I dont have the webcam problem on any browser but the N800's in OS2008 May 24 15:23:21 You may notice that the same issue exists. May 24 15:23:43 WorkingOnWise, how does that make it a MicroB issue? May 24 15:23:51 Adobe doesn't support the N8x0's webcam May 24 15:23:54 It's as simple as that. May 24 15:24:11 Actually, it's more of general Linux problem. May 24 15:24:23 Adobe doesn't support V4L2. May 24 15:24:26 GAN8001 well, the only place the trouble exists in in microb May 24 15:24:56 and your sample size? May 24 15:25:06 You've tested it with how many browsers on Linux? May 24 15:25:10 ;) May 24 15:25:13 4 May 24 15:25:47 firefox 2 and 3 alpha5, rc1, and ie6 (via ies4linux May 24 15:25:52 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19855 May 24 15:26:14 qwerty12: you mentioned that you have a patched qemu that doesn't throw the syscall errors? May 24 15:26:24 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=180093&postcount=11 - THE HORROR! May 24 15:26:26 qwerty12: this is wolf08 btw May 24 15:26:38 astromme_, ahh, didn't you catch my post? May 24 15:26:55 I think I deleted it for some reason :/ May 24 15:27:03 I didn't see it =/. May 24 15:27:17 I got a notification via email that somone had posted, but when I went there nothing was there May 24 15:27:37 what's the clock + memory + cpu in that pic called? May 24 15:27:44 status bar May 24 15:27:55 osso-statusbar-cpu May 24 15:27:58 Should be in Extras May 24 15:28:07 ok May 24 15:28:11 * qwerty12 prefers statusbar clock with load applet. May 24 15:28:22 this seems to take less space May 24 15:28:40 osso-statusbar-cpu's killing abilities suck. May 24 15:29:05 nn800nn, you have advanced-backlight? May 24 15:29:30 i normally do May 24 15:29:34 lol May 24 15:29:35 tho not atm May 24 15:29:41 Somebody really screwed up the mediawiki frontpage May 24 15:30:25 so do I understand this GAN8001? the issue is that flash doesnt do v4l2, and the IT's dont do v4l. May 24 15:30:42 WorkingOnWise, Why should they? May 24 15:30:45 v4l is gone May 24 15:30:54 out of the window. killed off etc May 24 15:32:06 is there another file manager i can use other than the default? May 24 15:32:15 one that lets me sees everything May 24 15:32:20 -s May 24 15:32:22 emelfm2 May 24 15:32:27 qwerty12: not saying they should or shouldn't, just getting clear on why I cant use my webcam the way I want to. May 24 15:32:31 ah i remember seeing that May 24 15:32:45 xterm May 24 15:34:08 WorkingOnWise, The fault solely lies with Adobe. Don't get me wrong, if Nokia mess up on something, i'm the first to blame nokia and say they suck but I really can't say that this time. May 24 15:35:58 qwerty12: so the solution is either get a commercial, closed, pigheaded company to step up to current methods, of impliment v4l on the N800. Whic I might be able to figure out.... May 24 15:38:19 Or talk Nokia into dropping tons of cash on v4l2 Flash support. May 24 15:38:22 WorkingOnWise, I've enabled v4l on the N800 via the kernel. I get a omap24xxwebcam but I still can't do anything with it. Linux computers (mostly) have the same problem. They have to use flashcam, just like us. May 24 15:40:56 qwerty12: last question because I think I' in over my head and dont like to waste too much of you guys time. Why does it work flawlesly in 45 linux distros, but not the N8x0? If I were to successfully instal Ubuntu Gutsy, on the N800, would I have my solution? May 24 15:41:49 WorkingOnWise, No. The camera will still be a v4l2 device no matter what distro you use. May 24 15:41:51 WOW: No May 24 15:42:15 WOW: OMAP24x0 webcam will only work if there is a proper driver available May 24 15:42:26 As there is no proper driver available, it will not work. May 24 15:42:40 Is it a clear answer to your question? May 24 15:43:00 for as much as I understand linux drivers, yeah :) May 24 15:43:02 thanks May 24 15:44:26 I think I'll try to ha;0ck in a more flash friendly cam in place of the built in one. I'm better with electronics than with lines of code. May 24 15:45:11 You'll need lines of code to support your new webcam ;) May 24 15:45:49 qwerty12: I'm hoping it will be a simple port from existing drivers for that part of it :D May 24 15:47:21 WorkingOnWise, Hehe. But you'll probably end up breaking every other camera application on the tablets :/ May 24 15:48:46 w00t. the openssh installer allows you to set a root password May 24 15:48:57 saves the trouble of downloading becomeroot & all :^))> May 24 15:48:59 my only use for the cam on the IT is skype and web apps. The built in cam is just to low res and noisy for anything else May 24 15:49:16 on a related note, is there any reason, once the drivers and physical wiring is hammered out, that the N8x0 would have a problem with a 2 or 3MP webcam? May 24 15:51:38 Well, the cpu might not be up to the task of viewing it live and working with it. I dunno May 24 15:51:42 WorkingOnWise, no, the OMAP supports up to 4-6 I believe. May 24 15:51:49 12 on the OMAP May 24 15:51:54 ^^I've been corrected May 24 15:52:06 Though I'm no sure how heavily that relies on the IVA May 24 15:52:26 Not entirely, astromme. :P May 24 15:52:30 nice...that would be a good digital cam with a real fiwe screen! :D May 24 15:52:39 view May 24 15:52:41 It's not a hardware issue, but a software one. May 24 15:53:02 * gimmal digs those cool design decisions, like the root-password-setup-on-ssh-install, and the way the maemo battery indicator does its little moving thing when the n8x0 is charging :^) May 24 15:53:04 Either way, I have high hopes for the N900. May 24 15:53:13 apple just doesn't think like that -- i'm not all joking there May 24 15:53:32 =P May 24 15:53:34 Apple's mobile stuff sucks. May 24 15:53:37 is there a way to make advanced backlight close the little control panel it opens once you click elsewhere (like the original display applet), or is it something hardcoded? May 24 15:53:47 but I <3 OS X May 24 15:53:48 thanks for all the help to this partial clueless n00b today ppl. May 24 15:54:15 nn800nn, if you want to figure out how Nokia puts those sliders in those containers. May 24 15:54:16 * qwerty12 puts my celery in the blue cheese that is Linux :p May 24 15:54:24 ^^ =) May 24 15:54:33 * gimmal wishes firefox/iceweasel/wth-else-on-gecko would notice the "content length" header on pages, and not STOP downloading UNTIL the content it has downloaded does MATCH that oh-so-convenient byte value May 24 15:54:46 qwerty12: don't use that analogy, blue cheese is gross May 24 15:54:50 It's totally microb-gtkmozembed now May 24 15:54:52 It's an issue with the type of container rm_you had to use. May 24 15:55:01 also, a built-in download manager supporting 'restart' would be nice May 24 15:55:15 Navi, have you compiled the latest svn? May 24 15:55:21 hey, anyone know if the download manage for the browser on the n810 supports 'restart'? May 24 15:55:30 GAN800, there's another later svn? May 24 15:55:39 There's not? May 24 15:55:44 OK May 24 15:55:45 There is? :P May 24 15:55:47 :O May 24 15:55:49 I haven't checked May 24 15:55:55 zomg confuzion! May 24 15:56:17 svn > Diablo MicroB May 24 15:56:29 To anybody interested. May 24 15:56:39 It's called microb-gtkmozembed in the build I built :P May 24 15:56:44 GAN800, w00t :) May 24 15:56:54 If Navi doesn't do it. I'll end up doing it :D May 24 15:57:23 Somebody should compile and package it. May 24 15:57:26 Diablo MicroB really sucks compared to Chinook + Navi SVN's build. May 24 15:57:38 Sadly. May 24 15:57:55 The two big N800 bugs are being fixed, thankfully. May 24 15:58:22 qwerty12 be sure to toss any bugs you find to timeless or onto bugzilla. May 24 15:58:48 We want to knock as many as possible down before release. ;) May 24 15:59:17 Will do :). But TBH, I'm not sure what is a bug anymore :? May 24 15:59:22 I'll check if there's a new revision May 24 15:59:25 s/:?:/:// May 24 16:00:17 Yeah, a lot of the issues with svn v Diablo are more etheria? :/ May 24 16:00:26 s/?/./ May 24 16:00:27 GAN800 meant: Yeah, a lot of the issues with svn v Diablo are more etheria. :/ May 24 16:00:36 +l May 24 16:00:47 * GAN800 lerns 2 finger keyboard. May 24 16:01:11 Why won't nokia compile it themselves and give us SSU updates? It's already beta, running SVN won't kill me. May 24 16:01:24 administrative issues May 24 16:01:35 But svn isn't on track for Diablo. May 24 16:01:55 So the Diablo MicroB has already been frozem as far as features go. May 24 16:01:59 * qwerty12 nods May 24 16:02:04 Ta for clearing that up. May 24 16:02:40 Yeah, pretty much everything irritating about maemo can be filed under 'administrative issues'. May 24 16:02:52 * qwerty12 has done the first part of removing the diablo application manager legal message :) May 24 16:03:05 Part of the problem with big corporate involvement. May 24 16:03:05 Now I just need to remove it when you install deb files locally. May 24 16:03:51 You get the big resources, but you also get the big beaurocract. May 24 16:07:40 Yep May 24 16:07:47 And that can be really annoying May 24 16:07:49 brb, need to reboot into windows for a little something I compiled for my N800 :) May 24 16:09:48 I'm just thankful we've got the maemo guys on our side to help ameliorate the effect. May 24 16:10:35 It's unfortunate that so many people blame the maemo guys for so much of the trouble May 24 16:10:53 when it's really the Nokia management and the maemo guys are the ones fighting our battle on the inside. . . . May 24 16:11:39 * GAN8001 is so glad that Vagalume is in Extras. May 24 16:11:45 mhm May 24 16:11:46 One repository down, 2 dozen to go. May 24 16:11:59 installed May 24 16:22:12 http://kob.com/article/stories/S451152.shtml?cat=517 May 24 16:24:04 There are people who are sensitive to that sort of ting May 24 16:24:06 thing* May 24 16:24:29 nsfw? May 24 16:24:32 now, whether or not they should be catered to is different, but it is a viable problem May 24 16:24:35 qwerty12_N800: sfw May 24 16:24:49 ah :) May 24 16:25:28 how do you know? because it doesn't really makes sense May 24 16:25:33 unless you're an insect May 24 16:26:00 how do I know that people are sensitive? May 24 16:26:11 to emf May 24 16:26:40 I've met someone who is still using a very old cell, and will not be purchasing a new one when his goes, because the newer ones give him headaches May 24 16:27:57 i think there's a greater chance it's psychosomatic, otherwise you'd see millions of people hurting left and right May 24 16:28:05 considering radio's been around forever May 24 16:28:32 ^ May 24 16:29:07 http://www.aehf.com/articles/em_sensitive.html May 24 16:31:37 wiki seems to say it's psychosomatic, like you were saying May 24 16:32:58 * qwerty12_N800 goes back into linux :), w00t May 24 16:33:36 is there a list of 'best apps' for the N810? or something like it? May 24 16:35:42 i'm not sure May 24 16:35:51 thanks for the article, it was pretty interesting May 24 16:36:09 but still doesn't exclude psychosomatic i think May 24 16:36:18 Who knows a networked windows computer and knows the password? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=185481#post185481 :p May 24 16:36:31 Can't wait to try this out in school... May 24 16:37:00 I had SO much fun suspending the winlogon process on so much computers :p May 24 16:37:20 Ass May 24 16:37:31 Hi, ssvb May 24 16:37:33 jerk May 24 16:37:46 hehe, keep the compliments coming :p May 24 16:37:47 hi May 24 16:39:31 nn800nn: I agree, and I'm not saying cater to these people's any needs, but it is something to keep in mind May 24 16:39:49 qwerty12 == r-tard :P May 24 16:39:49 yup May 24 16:40:24 GAN800, Why thank you :) May 24 16:41:09 hey um what can i edit the mce.ini with? May 24 16:41:14 vi May 24 16:41:18 or any ini on the n800 May 24 16:41:20 On one guys computer, I kept on loading a pron site 99 times :p May 24 16:41:37 a debian chroot says to use a non-hildon wm. Does this mean that one can't use the normal Nokia interface? May 24 16:41:40 qwerty12 is such a script kiddie May 24 16:41:47 or is it only the wm for the chroot? May 24 16:42:21 GAN8001, Of course :P. You know I can't program for s*** :P May 24 16:42:57 does anyone know if mpeg files can be built up of entirely uncompressed frames. i will recompress later and dont care about filesize May 24 16:43:07 hey i'm trying to unbind the hardware key for rotation, has anyone here done that? May 24 16:43:21 Are you using autorotate? May 24 16:43:29 That thing by emjayes? May 24 16:43:39 i don't know who it's by May 24 16:43:48 i have the rotation icon May 24 16:43:59 and the power button is hooked up to rotation May 24 16:44:07 which is annoying to me May 24 16:44:24 yes, emjayes May 24 16:44:25 Yeah, that's autorotate. Remove it and learn how to set up rotation yourself ;) :P May 24 16:44:28 confirmado May 24 16:44:37 no May 24 16:44:44 * qwerty12 even compiled custom kernel with rotation in it May 24 16:45:21 so you don't know May 24 16:45:26 admit it May 24 16:45:29 * astromme_ wonders if his toolchain is broken May 24 16:45:31 hello May 24 16:45:36 omfg May 24 16:45:46 ok, so now I'm trying a clib gcc 4.1 toolchain May 24 16:45:55 CMake Error: Qt compiled without support for -fvisibility=hidden. This will break plugins and linking of someapplications. Please fix your Qt installation. May 24 16:45:59 wtf May 24 16:46:01 nn800nn, Nope. But I know how to install rotation without any hardware keys. May 24 16:46:01 is it possible to get newer gettext for scratchbox? May 24 16:46:05 I've never gotten that May 24 16:46:12 astromme_, I've got gcc 4 installed :) May 24 16:46:26 part of cs's 2008 toolchain May 24 16:46:50 the N810 doesn't have accelerometers does it? May 24 16:47:07 No, but you can plug in usb "tilt-stick" May 24 16:47:09 no. May 24 16:47:46 ok, so all rotation needs to be done by mapping it to something then May 24 16:47:58 Somebody should build one just small enough to stick on the usb port behind the battery cover. May 24 16:48:01 could we squash a stick inside the case somewhere? May 24 16:48:10 lol gan :) May 24 16:48:54 even an extended battery cover wouldnt be bad (and it could house a larger battery at same time May 24 16:49:25 but you cant expect ppl to use the standard usb - its ugly as feck and the stand doesnt close when in use May 24 16:49:32 qwerty: cs's 2008 toolchain? May 24 16:50:01 And... omfg.... I'm almost ready to put a full debian environment on my n800 just to build in... gah May 24 16:50:12 To be exact: arm-linux-cs2008q1-126sb1 May 24 16:50:19 cs = code sourcery May 24 16:50:41 arm-gcc4.1-uclibc20061004 May 24 16:50:48 that's what I was using.. uh oh May 24 16:50:52 2 years old May 24 16:50:59 "gcc version 4.2.3 (Sourcery G++ Lite 2008q1-126)" - my gcc version May 24 16:51:02 How do I build/get the 2008? May 24 16:51:53 This one took me a while and KotCzarny to set up but: http://scratchbox.org/~jhakala/unofficial/scratchbox-toolchain-arm-linux-cs2008q1-126sb1_1.0.8~20080421173500-1_i386.deb May 24 16:55:21 wasn't there an app that would let me become root easily May 24 16:56:10 easyroot May 24 16:56:12 ~easyroot May 24 16:56:14 it has been said that easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com May 24 16:56:21 ty May 24 16:56:22 'root' May 24 16:56:24 In xterm May 24 16:57:30 infobot. Heh May 24 17:00:44 root: not found May 24 17:01:06 Arrg! I've removed the legal message when I install a file from a repo with the diablo application manager but now I need to remember what code I changed to make it do it for local deb files. May 24 17:01:16 nn800nn, Tried installing easyroot first? May 24 17:01:57 hah May 24 17:02:00 yeah May 24 17:02:20 Then "root" should work. Try sudo gainroot. May 24 17:03:31 19:47 < summatusmentis> ok, so all rotation needs to be done by mapping it to something then May 24 17:03:34 root shell enabled May 24 17:03:45 but i still can't edit the .ini file i wanted May 24 17:03:52 is it possible to somehow install newer gettext for scratchbox ? May 24 17:04:14 summatusmentis: in good light you can do rotation with camera May 24 17:04:41 permission denied May 24 17:05:34 Hello. Can I connect my n810 to the internet with an USB cable connected to a computer? :) May 24 17:05:49 Wow, I miss my 8mbps cable May 24 17:06:06 You would need to do some stuff with iptables iirc May 24 17:06:11 a mascarade May 24 17:06:18 ok, then how do i rename /etc/mce/mce.ini to something else from xterm? May 24 17:06:19 or, you could bridge the usb and eth0 connections May 24 17:06:22 Plus run a dns server on computer etc May 24 17:06:30 borism_: oh... well, that's not always, the case, obviously :) but that's still really cool May 24 17:06:32 i can't do it from emelfm2 May 24 17:06:38 querty12: true May 24 17:06:47 vdepizzol: are you running linux? May 24 17:06:54 astromme_: yes May 24 17:07:25 do you still need to be able to access the tablet with the usb ip it already has (i.e. 192.168.2.15) or can it get a new one? May 24 17:08:07 I've never tried it but there is information in maemo wiki and on Kate Alhola's blog. May 24 17:08:38 assuming you have eth0 as your internet ethernet device and usb0 as your usb device May 24 17:08:42 all you should need to do is this May 24 17:08:49 brctl addbr br0 May 24 17:08:53 brctl addif br0 eth0 May 24 17:09:00 brtcl addif br0 usb0 May 24 17:09:05 ifconfig br0 up May 24 17:09:31 hmm May 24 17:09:41 astromme_: let me try that, 1min May 24 17:09:45 and then a 'dhclient3 br0' May 24 17:09:53 err, wait one more sec May 24 17:10:01 are you using ubuntu/debian? May 24 17:10:02 ok May 24 17:10:03 :) May 24 17:10:08 or a .rpm distro? May 24 17:10:11 astromme_: yep, ubuntu May 24 17:10:14 ok May 24 17:10:33 then you should be good. Make sure each of the commands is prefixed with sudo May 24 17:10:38 if it gets all screwed up May 24 17:10:43 reboot your computer =P May 24 17:10:50 astromme_: right :P May 24 17:10:52 it'll all reset itself May 24 17:11:03 hahaha May 24 17:11:28 astromme_: there's no chance to screw up the n810, right? :D May 24 17:11:47 No.. oh, you're doing all of these commands on your ubuntu computer, not your n810 May 24 17:12:03 :) May 24 17:12:03 Does the n810 have a dhcp client? I assume it does May 24 17:12:05 because at the very end May 24 17:12:21 you'll need to get an address on the n810 via dhcp... May 24 17:12:57 how do I do this? May 24 17:13:13 Hmm.. it should be very similar to the ubuntu command dhclient3 usb0 May 24 17:13:22 might be the same... dunno what the debian command name is May 24 17:13:29 (maemo is based on debian) May 24 17:13:50 ok May 24 17:14:02 DHCP IS JUST LIKE MAGIC May 24 17:14:07 EVIL MAGIC May 24 17:14:17 :P May 24 17:14:18 the kind that turns you into a newt May 24 17:14:25 but you don't get better May 24 17:14:38 Someone get Proteous of the Harry Potter drug :p May 24 17:14:43 I like the odd dhcp options <3 default irc server et all May 24 17:14:46 The concept is this. You're bridging your eth0 and usb0 connections. Anything coming in on usb0 will get sent on eth0, etc... May 24 17:14:49 How's the 770 Proteous? May 24 17:14:57 WSODed May 24 17:15:14 You send it in yet? May 24 17:15:23 your n810 will *think* that it's on your normal ethernet network May 24 17:15:26 no May 24 17:15:43 Lazy. May 24 17:17:48 man i wish i'd known about fsck a week ago, would have spared me so much boredom. May 24 17:19:17 vdepizzol: aha. on the tablet it's called udhcpc. run it with (as root) 'udhcpc -i usb0' May 24 17:19:46 blargh.... I'm not happy with 30KB/s but I guess it's better than dialup May 24 17:21:02 mm as I view the HTML of a page? I'm using gtkmozembed+python May 24 17:21:38 how do i rename /etc/mce/mce.ini to something else from xterm? May 24 17:21:48 Proteous, send that ish in so you can get an N800. :P May 24 17:21:56 mv old new May 24 17:21:59 I don't think they are going to send me a n800 May 24 17:22:13 Pessimist! May 24 17:22:15 heh May 24 17:22:27 They may pay you, or send you a new 770 May 24 17:22:38 qwerty123 May 24 17:22:43 Both options are better than a broken one. May 24 17:22:44 mv /etc/mce/mce.ini /etc/mce/othername May 24 17:23:01 ty May 24 17:23:03 np May 24 17:29:17 gah... May 24 17:29:19 CMake Error: Qt compiled without support for -fvisibility=hidden. This will break plugins and linking of someapplications. Please fix your Qt installation. May 24 17:32:24 hm weird, i renamed mce.ini to mce.ini_old and it still gets read May 24 17:33:17 I wouldn't restart if i was you and no /etc/mce/mce.ini isn't there. May 24 17:33:33 there is one May 24 17:34:01 installing the emajay roation thing made a backup of the original May 24 17:34:12 Why would mce.ini_old get read then? May 24 17:34:22 i don't know. May 24 17:34:49 unless the keybinding isn't in the mce.ini May 24 17:34:58 looks like it it's there tho May 24 17:35:20 ok, wtf.. I'm disabling that warning because I don't trust it. This is probably not one of my smarter moves. May 24 17:36:23 re May 24 17:37:00 what's metalayer-crawler do? May 24 17:39:15 And the moment of truth comes.... I'm back to compiling May 24 17:40:10 n800n indexes media for Media player May 24 17:40:27 http://flickr.com/photos/26164523@N04/sets/72157605232321115/ May 24 17:40:41 seems to be kind of a cpu hog with a 16 Gb card May 24 17:40:55 and... error at 0%.. back to stage one May 24 17:41:11 anyone got any tips on getting a gps connection? hold it upside down, stand on one leg, anything? May 24 17:41:20 If you've got recursive symlinks or a corrupt card it'll give you trouble. May 24 17:42:20 can i just rename it? i can't seem to kill it May 24 17:42:39 oh, found a thread about it May 24 17:43:56 We're getting to the second moment of truth here. If sb can manage to link libraries.. I'll jump for joy May 24 17:45:47 Oh wow, I wonder if the (nodev) option for my fs has an effect.... May 24 17:48:52 a time-shifting device May 24 17:48:58 awesome May 24 17:50:22 so reading the maemo dev site, it appears that I need to use the scratchbox-script, the SDK-install-script and the binaries-install-script, then install xephyr-xserver, then install the dev-jffs on my maemo device - to really get the dev environment setup for building apps for the target... that sound about right? May 24 17:51:14 or is there a better approach? May 24 17:53:48 lopz, ping May 24 18:07:15 Woah, that was weird May 24 18:07:33 X decided to hard lock on a switch to a virtual terminal with ctrl-alt-shift-f1 May 24 18:07:37 fireun: there is a better approach May 24 18:07:47 fireun: Install ssh server on your device May 24 18:08:00 yes? May 24 18:08:00 I tried ssh =/ May 24 18:08:04 oh lol May 24 18:08:16 you weren't talking to me (although it would have worked =/) May 24 18:08:17 fireun: 1. Compile executable using scratchbox; 2) scp executable to the device; 3) ssh to device and run executable May 24 18:08:47 RST38h: setting up the xepher xserver will allow for better debugging tho? May 24 18:08:55 fireun: not really May 24 18:08:58 RST38h: no doubt final testing will be on the device... May 24 18:09:10 fireun: even initial testing is better be done on the device May 24 18:09:15 RST38h: Yes really, if you want to use tools like valgrind May 24 18:09:21 Doing it on QEmu is brain-damaged May 24 18:09:27 exactly May 24 18:09:29 RST38h: yes May 24 18:09:32 so you do it in the x86 sb May 24 18:09:45 and then when you've got all of the valgrind/debugging done May 24 18:09:49 astromme: and later find out that it does not work on armel May 24 18:09:54 heh May 24 18:09:59 /shrug May 24 18:10:11 "why wont my floating point math work!?!" May 24 18:10:40 what, is porting POV to maemo not a good idea? (j/k) May 24 18:10:48 that will be the least of your problems May 24 18:10:56 "it only took 3 months for povray to render a sphere!" May 24 18:11:13 more funny one will be not being able to read data from unaligned addresses May 24 18:11:19 x86 has no problems with that May 24 18:11:36 but seriously, best start is using the maemo-sdk-install script as root to build the basic sb env? May 24 18:11:37 arm will either coredump (if you are lucky) or read bullshit (normally) May 24 18:11:55 * RST38h is using MaemoSDK+ May 24 18:12:00 RST38h: its been awhile, but I used to code for embedded systems May 24 18:12:00 not sure if this is the right place to ask this or not but I May 24 18:12:00 can't seem to get virtualaboy advances to run any games i am trying maio world and golden sun... I am on 2008 OS and have a nokia n800 May 24 18:12:35 fireun: then you know what I mean May 24 18:12:55 RST38h: or will soon remember, rather than be dumbfounded May 24 18:13:29 wolf: Are you inserting the cartridge right? May 24 18:13:34 heh May 24 18:14:04 beford, pong May 24 18:14:07 RST38h: why MaemoSDK+ over the "standard" May 24 18:14:39 fireun: runs from the standard Ubuntu linux, no need to separately "login" to SDK May 24 18:14:49 thats a good reason May 24 18:14:53 has much less problematic installation and uses less space May 24 18:15:01 Cartridge... Very funny May 24 18:16:02 you can build Maemo, Unix, etc. versions of your software from the same directory tree, just use different makefiles May 24 18:16:14 with the original SDK you had to have a copy of the tree inside the sdk May 24 18:17:49 RST38h: yes, this feels much more like the typical cross-compiling environment I'm more used to May 24 18:18:04 more 'sane' May 24 18:20:59 Just follow instructions to the letter: http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install.html May 24 18:21:35 already on it, thanks May 24 18:23:03 whats up with the "Install these packages without verification?" bit May 24 18:25:23 I think it will print you a warning that the packages cannot be verified May 24 18:25:27 disregard it May 24 18:26:21 May 24 18:27:09 got any recommendations for simple projects to test the build env with? Something I can plop a source tree down and build,copy, run? May 24 18:28:15 ah, heh, if I read the page all the way to the end, they give me the maemopad example, sorry May 24 18:28:20 that'll do May 24 18:28:58 fireun: try fms.komkon.org/ColEm/ May 24 18:29:11 there is a Maemo project in the source code distribution May 24 18:29:43 it differs form maemopad by not using the autoconf/automake stuff May 24 18:30:59 RST38h: I've only got a 2007 770, so colem wont work May 24 18:31:59 it may, if you change a few dependencies May 24 18:32:13 which may be problematic, I'm debating doing some dev for a client for the nokia, which is where all this started from. May 24 18:32:33 colem does not do anything special but you will need to downgrade a few packages it requests in the makefile May 24 18:32:54 RST38h: I'm aiming low to start, something simple. May 24 18:32:56 ask the client to buy you the latest hw May 24 18:33:05 RST38h: the client has several 770s and 800s May 24 18:33:10 downgrading packages IS simpler May 24 18:33:24 than writing an app from scratch that is :) May 24 18:33:42 RST38h: the project is probably a POS kind of interface to a back end db - kind of a running bill of materials interface to an inventory db May 24 18:33:56 RST38h: yes, no question downgrading is much simpler than starting in a void May 24 18:34:16 I may not need sprites right off the bat tho (: May 24 18:34:51 tablets do not have sprites May 24 18:35:04 may have one for the mouse pointer, but it is not being use anyway May 24 18:35:11 ok May 24 18:35:19 I was using it generically May 24 18:35:36 lol May 24 18:36:55 "The requested URL /ColEm/Colem25-Source.zip was not found on this server" May 24 18:37:00 thats always a good start (: May 24 18:37:40 umgh May 24 18:38:17 it is definitely there, I can download it May 24 18:38:25 SHIFT-reload May 24 18:39:27 http://fms.komkon.org/ColEm/Colem25-Source.zip May 24 18:39:32 NOT FOUND May 24 18:40:14 are you clicking on it from the /ColEm/ page? May 24 18:41:00 from -http://fms.komkon.org/ColEm/ May 24 18:41:06 Works fine here. May 24 18:41:06 Ah, I see what is wrong May 24 18:41:17 It is ColEm25, not Colem25 May 24 18:41:55 bingo May 24 18:42:11 he should fix that May 24 18:44:25 OT: jeez, you'd think ubuntu would have better power management May 24 18:44:45 getting pretty tired of 15% load at low freq, and the fan coming on full speed May 24 18:46:17 the move to making all pata appear as sata devices is kind of stupid as well May 24 18:46:25 * fireun shrugs May 24 18:48:55 GAN800: much better May 24 18:49:11 Friends are fun. May 24 18:49:58 GAN800: difficult for tab-expanding because there is another GAN8001 May 24 18:50:31 fireun: same guy May 24 18:50:35 That'd be the G4 May 24 18:50:57 Knirch: I figured, but its still a pain May 24 18:50:59 (why people have more than one client on a ircnetwork is beyond me) May 24 18:51:12 Knirch, for a number of reasons. May 24 18:51:16 no doubt May 24 18:51:44 irssi-proxying isn't always 100% with comcast. ;) May 24 18:52:03 screen is your friend May 24 18:52:10 and GAN8001 only exists about 1% of the time. May 24 18:52:21 Not in this case, no May 24 18:52:40 fireun: you'll hear the graphical client argument now, I never play the screen/text client card :) May 24 18:52:58 irssi-proxying isn't any different from screen, really. May 24 18:53:07 Knirch: I'm out of circulation these days May 24 18:53:28 Plus, irssi straight up sucks on an N800. May 24 18:53:33 Knirch: still setting up a new ubuntu install even May 24 18:53:44 I kind of dislike irssi-proxying, but that's a petpeeve and totally ungeneric, so I won't bother with that :) May 24 18:53:55 Good for you. May 24 18:54:18 fight! fight! May 24 18:55:03 Ubuntu is also supposed to wear out your harddrive ;) May 24 18:55:13 (and yes, power management totally sucks) May 24 18:55:27 RST38h: 8.04 feels like a step backwards from 7.10 so far May 24 18:55:28 I meant, I won't bother spewing crap about it in a public forum, since my reasons of disliking it is completly work related :) irssi-proxy is most likely good for most people May 24 18:55:37 Knirch: shhh May 24 18:56:08 RST38h: and I went with minty-ubuntu May 24 18:56:18 after trying the vanilla ubuntu 8.04 May 24 18:56:39 still way more work than it should be May 24 18:57:57 iew, what? "Retrieving gcc-4.1-base" May 24 18:58:45 * fireun sighs May 24 18:59:50 fireun: to me, all this stuff looks like step backwards from BSD May 24 18:59:57 heh May 24 18:59:57 and looked this way for years, frankly May 24 19:00:21 there were a couple spots where it was fairly decent May 24 19:00:40 but then some new developer gets addicted to "the latest" crap and everything dies a horrible hot entropy death May 24 19:01:37 and nokia going to Qt is long overdue May 24 19:01:38 Ubuntu is actually the first Linux I can use without throwing up or spending 40 minutes of each hour tinkering with May 24 19:02:11 fireun: I agree May 24 19:02:16 RST38h: I'm still tinkering, audio should NOT clip when moving windows around May 24 19:02:33 fireun: scheduler. May 24 19:02:40 forget it May 24 19:02:42 lcuk: ${f%_*} is a glob pattern flavored thing, %_* means eat away _* at the end non-greedily May 24 19:02:45 don't move windows. May 24 19:02:55 but man bash knows these things May 24 19:03:01 RST38h: heh, actually, switching to alsa fixed most of it May 24 19:03:08 what was it before? May 24 19:03:20 RST38h: minty uses some asscrap pulseaudio May 24 19:03:26 (%% would be the greedy flavor, # and ## would be the from beginning of the string counterparts) May 24 19:03:31 omg May 24 19:03:36 and ESD is junk of course... OSSO is yuck May 24 19:03:44 I have no problems whatsoever with audio May 24 19:03:44 My audio even continues when X has major problem, or during compiles, etc... May 24 19:03:47 It's freaking amazing and I'm impressed May 24 19:03:51 mmm entropy May 24 19:03:53 * RST38h has been using /dev/dsp from the start, no problems so far May 24 19:03:55 I know my computer is a gonner when the audio stops May 24 19:04:01 heh May 24 19:04:15 astromme: I'm still dealing with power management lockups May 24 19:04:22 I would love to use the same on Maemo, but no luck May 24 19:04:53 RST38h: audio on maemo is junky, but I'm not sure where its failing, the app, OS or driver layer May 24 19:05:13 RST38h: I'm a mean bastard and run streaming audio 24/7 thru it May 24 19:05:29 sometimes it'll go 30minutes and die, need a reboot, sometimes it goes for days May 24 19:05:31 =/ May 24 19:05:31 fireun: I agree, audio on maemo isn't pretty compared to my desktop and laptop May 24 19:06:37 why is it that I have to find a new way on every linux install of telling the trackpad not to freak out and take glancing touches as meaningful when I'm typing madly away? May 24 19:06:44 this is a very old problem May 24 19:07:04 * fireun throws up hands at linux's senility May 24 19:07:49 don't worry, your grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-childrens' hands will have evolved away this problem May 24 19:08:15 they'll just have flippers with really dexterous thumbs May 24 19:08:23 an extra knuckle May 24 19:09:44 do you guys play emulator games on your tablets? May 24 19:11:30 fireun: does not die on me (OS2008) but doesn't play video very well either May 24 19:12:08 "We live in a remarkably fogey-ish era, and the stuffier we get, the more we need to hear about people who snort, fuck and shoot without thought of what it might do to their permanent record." May 24 19:12:11 RST38h: so it goes with a 770 running 2006/7 May 24 19:13:15 RST38h: I'm major fogey-ish then.. I actually -think- rather than the 85% standard knee jerk -react- of the populous May 24 19:13:43 but knowing you're doomed doesnt help anything, mostly makes it worse May 24 19:14:28 fireun: you are not statistically significant May 24 19:14:36 ha. exactly May 24 19:14:39 probably not event reacting to advertising. May 24 19:14:45 s/event/even/ May 24 19:14:45 RST38h meant: probably not even reacting to advertising. May 24 19:15:22 RST38h: I've broken many reins May 24 19:15:36 and THAT is why you are not statistically significant May 24 19:15:59 still looking for the advantage in it May 24 19:16:12 well, for once, you can avoid the traffic =) May 24 19:16:59 damn skippy May 24 19:17:18 but it also makes me difficult to employ May 24 19:17:22 Anyways, the whole article is actually pretty good: http://exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=19038&IBLOCK_ID=35&PAGE=1 May 24 19:18:03 * Cptnodegard just saw indiana jones May 24 19:18:17 fireun; don't see a link between these May 24 19:18:36 good? May 24 19:18:37 Cptn: so, you are coming here on empty stomach then? May 24 19:19:02 its the single most crappy soundtrack i have ever heard on any movie May 24 19:19:18 and wtf was with the ending May 24 19:20:27 hehe May 24 19:22:24 I saw Ironman, I did my capitalistic community service for the year May 24 19:23:05 they wont get me with indiana, ford is clearly too old and stoned to pull it off, I dont need to see it to know that. May 24 19:29:08 whee, my n810 refuses to go online now May 24 19:29:18 I tap "Select connection..." and nothing happens May 24 19:30:00 porn overload May 24 19:31:26 hmm one of those tiny fly thingies was just on my screen May 24 19:31:32 right click and close didnt work :/ May 24 19:34:12 mgedmin: reboot? May 24 19:34:25 that would fix it, I'm sure May 24 19:34:35 there ya go then (: May 24 19:34:51 but tablet-browser doesn't have firefox's "restore previous session" feature May 24 19:35:11 sure it does, its called bookmarks May 24 19:35:11 I'll have to finish reading this longish blog post first May 24 19:35:12 (; May 24 19:35:23 bookmarks don't remember the position on page May 24 19:35:25 quick before your eyes go bad! May 24 19:35:54 the irritating think is that I cannot ssh into it for looking at dmesg/etc May 24 19:35:59 s/think/thing/ May 24 19:35:59 mgedmin meant: the irritating thing is that I cannot ssh into it for looking at dmesg/etc May 24 19:36:47 grr, why does disk space not mean anything anymore May 24 19:36:54 * fireun is down to 405M on main linux partition May 24 19:36:58 usbnet? May 24 19:37:41 xterm? May 24 19:42:29 fireun: I always have that problem too May 24 19:42:33 Even on a huge drive May 24 19:42:50 yeah, moving /opt to another partition May 24 19:42:56 1.1G ! May 24 19:42:58 a couple of dvds, the kernel source, kdesvn, scratchbox, a windows vm May 24 19:42:58 it all adds up May 24 19:43:20 yeah, any kind of source kills drivespace, contrary to gut belief May 24 19:43:33 looks like https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2534 May 24 19:44:14 /etc/init.d/osso-ic restart is a fix, yay May 24 19:45:32 and the fix works May 24 19:46:22 I thought a fix was meant to work anyways? :p May 24 19:46:23 even with bugs, Exaile is SO much better then Rhapsody May 24 19:46:48 * fireun doesnt even get Canola May 24 19:48:19 when you say 'get' canola, do you mean understand why it's there? May 24 19:48:43 And, btw, I prefer Amarok =P. Ok... no I don't want to start a battle May 24 19:49:10 you are allowed to have a preference (: May 24 19:49:16 Of course May 24 19:49:20 * qwerty12_N800 thinks mpd is king May 24 19:49:20 I dont understand the meaning of canola May 24 19:49:29 and what the hell happened to xmms when I wasnt looking? May 24 19:49:40 is there a way to get the OS version from an ssh session? May 24 19:49:49 on Ubuntu I'd cat /etc/lsb-release, but what do I do on a tablet? May 24 19:50:03 I tried installing everything on the 770 and found the standard media player to play streams the best (not well, just best) May 24 19:50:06 run osso-product-info May 24 19:50:11 fireun: try audacity if you want an xmms like player May 24 19:50:17 thanks, astromme_! May 24 19:50:34 audacity on maemo? May 24 19:50:41 O.O May 24 19:50:47 no? May 24 19:50:53 no problems mgedmin ;) :p May 24 19:51:09 * astromme_ is confused. May 24 19:51:23 there's interesting info there May 24 19:51:25 OSSO_PRODUCT_WLAN_CHANNEL='FCC/US' May 24 19:51:33 mgedmin: it was qwerty12_N800 who you should thank =P May 24 19:51:39 mine is etsi/eu May 24 19:51:50 reminds me when I changed the wifi accesspoint in the office to channel 13, and my n800 couldn't connect any more May 24 19:52:05 would mine be eu if I'm in the eu now, even if my tablet was purchased in the us? May 24 19:52:38 n800n: fireun was speaking about exile and xmms so I assumed he was talking about desktop apps May 24 19:52:40 mgedmin: haha May 24 19:52:54 astromme_: yeah, sorry, ranting off topic a bit today May 24 19:53:04 astromme_: nope, I'm in the eu, but my tablet was purchased in the us May 24 19:53:08 astromme_, exaile and xmms are available on tablets :) May 24 19:53:19 is banshee available on the tablet? ;-) May 24 19:53:27 i gasped May 24 19:54:10 astromme_: right, audacity is a wav editor, not player May 24 19:54:12 qwerty12_N800: is amarok? May 24 19:54:15 err, sorry May 24 19:54:20 there's another similarly named one May 24 19:54:30 so many audio apps for the tablet, so man of them suck May 24 19:54:35 many May 24 19:54:37 astromme_, don't think so :/ May 24 19:54:40 I'm happy with canola =/ May 24 19:54:53 it seems bloated May 24 19:54:59 A little May 24 19:55:00 kitchen sink project May 24 19:55:07 And I'd agree with that May 24 19:55:23 * fireun wrinkles up his nose May 24 19:55:32 tell em your hates at #canola :p May 24 19:55:39 kinda counter to the whole minimalist tablet ideal May 24 19:55:50 ha, I'm not crazy May 24 19:55:52 audacious-media-player.org/ May 24 19:55:54 audacious May 24 19:55:55 qwerty12_N800: they drank the coolaid (or canola) why bother ? (: May 24 19:56:06 astromme_: ahha, crazy names May 24 19:56:08 canola: nice ui, atrocious startup time May 24 19:56:34 astromme_, I compiled audacious and it segfaulted :D May 24 19:56:37 last time I installed it was for the youtube plugin May 24 19:56:38 =/ May 24 19:56:50 which didn't work at the time, because youtube changed their html ;-) May 24 19:56:55 probably because i forced it to use older libc May 24 20:01:03 not cool.. my scratchbox is broken again May 24 20:01:10 Some days I like scratchbox May 24 20:01:25 Others I just wish I could have a complete dev environment on my n800 May 24 20:01:29 astromme_, I've installed sdk 20 times :p May 24 20:01:32 becuase sb is so freaking annoying May 24 20:02:13 now I'm in dependency hell May 24 20:02:16 I need libstdc++6-dev May 24 20:02:24 or something similar at least... to compile cmake May 24 20:02:41 but no... sb thinks I need the kitchen sink as dependencies May 24 20:02:44 including x11 May 24 20:03:15 Grabb the deb manually and extract it May 24 20:03:30 interesting May 24 20:03:46 I just re-unpacked the root fs May 24 20:04:12 and it looks like it's working May 24 20:04:35 yikes May 24 20:05:37 well, it bootstrapped May 24 20:05:39 so we should be good May 24 20:05:51 RST38h: so unzipping the colemu source reveals narry a README or anything pointing to build instructions May 24 20:05:55 gah May 24 20:06:00 I feel like I'm going backwards May 24 20:06:07 astromme_: yes May 24 20:06:24 I started with a halfway built kdelibs May 24 20:06:27 my UI lags, when has linux ever done that? May 24 20:06:31 I'm now back to building dependencies May 24 20:06:42 You have something running as root eating cpu? May 24 20:06:58 omfg May 24 20:07:02 now I can't even get cmake to compile May 24 20:07:04 nope, I think I'll blame the move to sata handling of pata drives May 24 20:07:18 and the inability to hdparm the drive to use 32bit access and dma May 24 20:09:02 I doubt that's the cause of the problem May 24 20:09:03 F this.... May 24 20:09:09 I'm downloading the vm of scratchbox May 24 20:09:19 ext3 handling of fsync, on the other hand, is distinctly suboptimal May 24 20:09:35 as firefox 3 demonstrated by making sqlite do fifteen fsyncs per second, or something like that May 24 20:09:42 yeah May 24 20:09:51 well, it can't actually do fifteen per second, given that the ones it does tend to take quite a few seconds each... May 24 20:09:53 meh May 24 20:10:07 * mgedmin uses http://www.flamingspork.com/projects/libeatmydata/ May 24 20:10:38 mgedmin: well I'm at a loss of what it is, video driver is drm and works reasonablly well May 24 20:10:55 mgedmin, that sounds fun :D ^-^ May 24 20:11:06 I think all the UI lags I've noticed on linux during the last several years were disk-I/O-related May 24 20:11:11 mgedmin: but lots of UI issues, blank dialog boxes as app freezes up, then my mouse wont work in other windows but sluggishly, its all gone pear shaped in linux these days May 24 20:11:22 or running out of RAM May 24 20:11:26 mgedmin: right, which makes me think there are disk io issues atm May 24 20:11:32 which in turn means your system is doing lots of I/O May 24 20:11:33 like blocking writes May 24 20:11:42 rather than dma doing the heavy lifting May 24 20:11:57 DMA never made any difference in my experience May 24 20:12:08 mgedmin: well, I was installing/downloading the scratchbox errata May 24 20:12:10 get an app to do a lot of writes, and other apps will suffer, DMA or no DMA May 24 20:12:21 mgedmin: my experience tells me otherwise (: May 24 20:12:24 the problem is latency and not bandwidth, I think May 24 20:12:32 actually, yes, I remember once May 24 20:12:37 I think its system resource hogging May 24 20:12:45 a brand-new Pentium IV system literally froze when I was doing a mkfs May 24 20:12:55 because it forgot to enable DMA May 24 20:13:03 and spent all the time blocking on CPU May 24 20:13:05 and right now I CANT enable dma May 24 20:13:17 but why do you assume it is disabled? May 24 20:13:24 because they think moving to sata UUID disk addressing is easier May 24 20:13:45 hdparm oddly enough will read the status of the drive flags, but not set them, due to error May 24 20:14:04 sure, I'm assuming its results are valid, but still May 24 20:14:12 * mgedmin runs sudo hdparm -i /dev/sda May 24 20:14:17 astromme_: fakeroot debian/rules clean May 24 20:14:17 fakeroot: preload library not found, aborting. May 24 20:14:17 dpkg-buildpackage: failure: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 1 May 24 20:14:19 udma5 is active here May 24 20:14:28 despite the SATA-ness of the drive May 24 20:15:19 mgedmin: hmm, yes, giving the -i param that is what it indicates here as well May 24 20:15:30 * fireun throws up hands in apparent surrender May 24 20:16:30 linux sucks, I'm going back to windows (; May 24 20:18:42 mgedmin: I havnt gotten around to fixing my term even, so arrow keys in insert mode in vi makes a mess... lots of other stuff to nail down first. Its frustrating that I have to do any of it. May 24 20:18:55 well, linux does suck, but windows sucks more, in my personal experience May 24 20:19:03 yes, I was being sarcastic May 24 20:19:14 thats a given, right? (: May 24 20:19:30 vi arrow key tip #1: if you're running ubuntu, sudo apt-get install vim instead of using the preinstalled vim-tiny that doesn't support arrow keys May 24 20:19:45 Arrow keys? May 24 20:19:45 ah yes, an oldy but goody May 24 20:19:46 i used windows for the first time in 3 months to test winexe and i hated it May 24 20:20:04 Heh May 24 20:20:25 I'm so glad that I'm free from all of the problems that come with windows May 24 20:20:40 I still need it for CAD work May 24 20:20:46 industry dependancy May 24 20:21:07 Mmm May 24 20:21:21 I give up May 24 20:21:24 hey, I'd lov eit if solidworks moved to linux. May 24 20:21:30 scratchbox and I do not go together May 24 20:21:35 period May 24 20:21:51 * fireun doesnt yet understand the need May 24 20:21:52 What other options do I have? May 24 20:21:58 avr stuff was so much easier May 24 20:22:14 Can I install debian on my n800? May 24 20:22:23 yes May 24 20:22:29 I dont remember needing a scratchbox environment doing avr crosscompiling May 24 20:22:46 Hmm? May 24 20:22:56 astromme_: sort of May 24 20:23:01 i completely drained my n800 and it's on the 3rd hour of charging (no battery full yet) :\ May 24 20:23:01 you can get a working debian chroot May 24 20:23:09 you can't actually get debian to boot, afaiu May 24 20:23:19 i have a bootable debian May 24 20:23:23 well, maybe that's all I need May 24 20:23:57 * mgedmin finds http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian May 24 20:24:24 oh, wow, ever wifi works May 24 20:24:40 for certain definitions of "works" May 24 20:24:59 it doesn't work on my system, and i am working to get it up May 24 20:25:20 I think most of ubuntu was also cross-compiled for the tablets May 24 20:25:41 I thought I saw a thread stating ubuntu-maemo existed May 24 20:26:08 http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2097004728.html May 24 20:29:33 I wish I had a qemu that supported all of the arm processor features May 24 20:29:37 that would be nice..... May 24 20:29:44 use sbrsh or something May 24 20:29:45 :P May 24 20:30:02 it was dog slow May 24 20:30:11 and failed for seemingly no reason at all May 24 20:30:15 as in May 24 20:30:18 I got a make error May 24 20:30:22 * fireun is lost just trying to get maemopad to build under sb2 May 24 20:30:23 I wish for a full device emulator May 24 20:30:27 but I looked up.... there were no error messages May 24 20:30:30 a couple of warnings May 24 20:30:31 ofcours it is dog slow, it runs natively on the n800 :P May 24 20:30:32 but nothing fatal May 24 20:30:45 I'm fine with dog slow =P May 24 20:30:50 mgedmin: turned out to be quite boring - they seem to have compiled packages only May 24 20:30:51 just not "dog slow and still fails" May 24 20:31:19 flo_lap: that's probably why I thought the debian port was also boring May 24 20:31:33 must have conflated the two announcements May 24 20:33:32 anyone tell me what to do with "fakeroot: preload library not found, aborting." May 24 20:33:43 mgedmin: They just took the source packages and compiled them nativley - its some effort, but boring in the end. May 24 20:33:52 do I need to setup maemo SDK to develop with python? May 24 20:34:02 kkrust1: shouldnt think so! May 24 20:34:03 fireun: give more info? May 24 20:34:08 is that inside scratchbox? May 24 20:34:20 mgedmin: doing the first test run after the sdk+ setup May 24 20:34:31 with commands as listed on the page May 24 20:34:39 url? May 24 20:34:44 http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install.html May 24 20:34:59 mgedmin: no gui adaption and no images - so everything that is hard work is missing May 24 20:35:03 ah, the experimental scratchbox 2 thing May 24 20:35:08 I haven't tried it out yet May 24 20:35:22 RST38h was the one to point at that method May 24 20:35:37 fireun, it worked for me in ubuntu but i extremely prefer sb1 May 24 20:35:39 flo_lap: true, otoh 16000 apt-gettable packages are attractive May 24 20:35:51 most of the debs I rebuilt for maemo were for cmdline apps that didn't need GUI tweaks May 24 20:35:54 qwerty12_N800: and I may have to try it as well, so far none of this makes sense May 24 20:36:03 then again I'm a geek... May 24 20:36:09 mgedmin: arent we all? May 24 20:36:21 mgedmin: I think its a prereq for using IRC in the first place May 24 20:36:24 I believe there exist people in the world that aren't ;-) May 24 20:36:42 Ok, I'm out for tonight May 24 20:36:43 ah, IRC -- you've got a point there May 24 20:36:49 mgedmin: yes its interesting to play around with a large colection of software, but that does not make it a mature thing May 24 20:36:51 Hopefully the morning will mean less silly problems May 24 20:36:57 mgedmin: sure, and people like evilmadscientist.com are NERDS May 24 20:37:03 I don't believe anyone claimed mojo was mature May 24 20:37:09 astromme_: cheers May 24 20:37:22 * mgedmin reads the maemo-sdk page and likes the idea May 24 20:37:28 flo_lap: large collections of software SOURCE May 24 20:37:47 is it possible to add iwconfig/iwlist to an n810? May 24 20:38:06 practisevoodoo: should be wireless-tools May 24 20:38:25 practisevoodoo: finding the package that -works- is another problem May 24 20:39:02 practisevoodoo, www.nitapps.com May 24 20:39:36 * fireun takes a get up and move around break May 24 20:40:14 cheers May 24 20:41:31 is there any webkit based browser availible for n810? May 24 20:41:58 midori May 24 20:42:15 or in debian, epithany May 24 20:42:20 wasn't there an experimental webkit backend for tablet-browser? May 24 20:43:59 http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/08/07/new-webkit-backend-under-development-for-n800-web-browser May 24 20:44:12 hm, 2007 May 24 20:44:16 a bit old May 24 20:45:34 They decided it was pointless to set it up for EAL May 24 20:45:44 Better to just have a unique front-end May 24 20:45:57 The engine is actually in extras May 24 20:46:01 you just need a GUI for it May 24 20:46:10 Somebody built Epiphany for it. May 24 20:46:18 Epiphany sucks on the tablet, though. May 24 20:47:42 Anybody got MPD playing smoothly on Maemo? May 24 20:48:26 ohh, reminder for me there, is there a good MPD client for maemo? :) May 24 20:48:36 starkmjolk: mmpc May 24 20:48:46 very nice maemo-ish UI May 24 20:48:47 thanks :) May 24 20:48:48 zap, set it to use libao May 24 20:48:59 hey, maemo-sdk dares to edit my /etc/sudoers without my permission May 24 20:49:00 then set libao to use esd May 24 20:49:02 I disapprove May 24 20:49:15 I believe debian-policy could say a thing or two about that May 24 20:49:29 qwerty12_N800: it uses libao, anyway the sound is full of clicks May 24 20:49:40 why can i run top when ssh'd in but top in an osso xterm hangs? May 24 20:49:59 Because you broke it? May 24 20:50:03 Works fine here, mysc. May 24 20:50:27 GAN, can't see what could have broken it except i installed screen (via apt-get). that might have changed ncurses? May 24 20:51:43 mysc: screen size? May 24 20:52:02 what if you reduce the font size in xterm? May 24 20:52:31 oh wow, it works now. i musta been doing something after 20 hours of no sleep or something. May 24 20:57:40 hahaha May 24 20:57:46 sudo maemo-tools prints May 24 20:57:48 Running as user root... yes May 24 20:57:48 Not running as user root inside fakeroot... yes May 24 20:57:53 for some reason I found it funny May 24 21:03:05 "mgedmin: then again I'm a geek" :p :) May 24 21:04:36 well, debian now connects to my AP! one last hurdle...dhcpd is not listening on wlan0 May 24 21:06:44 that's ok, I'll listen on your wlan0 May 24 21:08:16 sp3000 is such a pal May 24 21:09:55 hrmm, it listens on usb0 though, this might be the problem, will try disabling usb0 May 24 21:10:45 there is no DS emulator for maemo, correct? May 24 21:11:00 I'm starting to wonder if I was sane to even consider taking on a maemo project May 24 21:11:09 n800n, theres extremely slow ome May 24 21:11:13 setting up and using the build environment is such a cluster May 24 21:11:32 ...of joy May 24 21:11:36 hmm May 24 21:11:44 qwerty12_N800 do you remember names? May 24 21:11:52 * sp3000 approves of the aesthetic principle of http://www.verkkokauppa.com/productimages/orig/56042_01.jpg May 24 21:12:24 desume (smth like that). search itt (but VERY slow) May 24 21:12:26 sp3000: wheres the one for 2.5" or smaller drives? May 24 21:12:37 oh wait, they come with their own cases May 24 21:12:38 ty May 24 21:12:53 that one claims to eat 2.5" too May 24 21:15:20 of course at that point the space overhead starts to become amusing May 24 21:17:59 http://www.sharenator.com/Flying_penis/ May 24 21:18:14 it sounds worse than it is and a lot funnier May 24 21:18:24 than it sounds May 24 21:19:03 wtf :p May 24 21:19:26 load the fuel... May 24 21:19:36 weird huh May 24 21:19:45 (pun intended) May 24 21:23:10 okay, maemo-sdk step #3 completed May 24 21:23:33 this is going to take hours May 24 21:24:22 eww 10 fps. May 24 21:25:15 .install files which don't specify a explicit distribution don't go down with diablo well :( May 24 21:26:04 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153066 May 24 21:26:06 mgedmin, vmware image . . . ? May 24 21:27:13 GAN8001: I already have scratchbox installed and working with all three targets May 24 21:27:23 I want to play with this new experimental scratchbox2 toy May 24 21:27:58 * qwerty12_N800 couldn't get sbox1 and sbox2 installed together on same system :/ May 24 21:31:40 don't tell me I'm going to break my existing sbox1 install please May 24 21:32:33 nah, it's just that sbox2 wouldn't install for me. it may (hopefully) work fine for you May 24 21:34:35 sudo apt-get install maemo-sdk succeeded May 24 21:34:55 sudo maemo-tools -m http://ftp.debian.org/debian succeeded May 24 21:35:05 now running maemo-rootstrap install all May 24 21:35:41 nope May 24 21:35:42 /usr/bin/sb2-config: line 40: echo: write error: No space left on device May 24 21:35:43 oops May 24 21:35:48 I had 2.8 gigs free this morning May 24 21:35:56 oops May 24 21:36:00 /opt/maemo is 1.1 gigs total May 24 21:36:24 apt-get clean freed half a gig May 24 21:37:34 okay, 2.9 gigs free May 24 21:37:44 let's try maemo-rootstrap install all again May 24 21:39:12 ah, I also have a gig of data in ~/.maemo-sdk May 24 21:42:12 Hi how do i use alt key on n810 kb? May 24 21:42:53 hi befr0d, for what software? May 24 21:43:04 hey mgedmin long time May 24 21:43:04 Screen May 24 21:43:17 * mgedmin waves May 24 21:43:33 befr0d: for any terminal app, to get alt+letter, press esc and then letter May 24 21:43:56 esc is the big circled arrow key on the left of the screen May 24 21:43:58 o_O May 24 21:44:04 * mgedmin waves at pupnik May 24 21:45:06 another useful thing to know about terminal apps is that tab is ctrl+i May 24 21:45:20 Thanks that worked May 24 21:45:46 I used esc kwy from the touchscreen May 24 21:45:51 Key* May 24 21:46:28 Still need to get used to this kb :) May 24 21:47:47 * pupnik is sad at big red line running up thinkpad screen May 24 21:48:33 the thinkpad is dead, long live the thinkpad May 24 21:48:35 pupnik, i've got a line like that on another dell monitor :( May 24 21:48:38 pupnik, hit it with a stick. May 24 21:48:44 time to get a new one May 24 21:49:27 mgedmin: man that's useful info May 24 21:49:43 hehe May 24 21:49:52 sry i meant ctrl+i May 24 21:49:55 did not know that May 24 21:50:17 Hi, I'm porting a program from desktop to maemo/hildon, and my lazyloading stopped working. On the desktop I intercept get_value in the GtkTreeModel interface, which allows me to dynamically load data into the tree view. May 24 21:50:38 However.. on maemo/hildon, get_value is called for all rows even though I've set fixed height and stuff like that. May 24 21:51:41 What am I missing? May 24 21:52:05 * lcuk is sad to see an all white pixel and next an all black pixel line running across on his laptop :( May 24 21:53:22 Is there any way to disable the tips that appear when yountype on the n810? May 24 21:53:37 do I want binary packages in my chinook rootstrap? May 24 21:53:57 yes, i think it's closed stuff May 24 21:54:08 befr0d: I'm pretty sure you can do that in the control panel May 24 21:54:09 You type* May 24 21:54:14 yes, settings control panel, text input settings, onscreen languages, untick May 24 21:54:18 right, closed stuff -- but do I want it? May 24 21:54:28 what's it good for? May 24 21:54:57 running binary gui apps in xephyr? May 24 21:55:36 I can't remember, it's same as maemo-explict package in sbox1 May 24 21:56:44 that worked. thanks May 24 21:56:50 okay, maemo-sdk setup is done May 24 21:57:08 and the mistral target is unable to run C compiled programs May 24 21:57:11 fail? May 24 21:58:05 same error in chinook target May 24 21:59:21 running sb2 dpkg-buildpackage without the -d script gives an interesting intermission May 24 22:00:07 but otoh I don't seem to have any problems with fakeroot May 24 22:00:53 does the x server on n810 accept external connections? May 24 22:01:25 it shouldn't May 24 22:01:59 but its possible to make it listen rigth? May 24 22:02:04 and netstat confirms that it isn't listening on tcp May 24 22:02:05 right* May 24 22:02:18 you can use ssh's x forwarding May 24 22:02:28 if you run ssh from osso-xterm May 24 22:02:38 ok let me see May 24 22:05:55 oh, hey, sbox 1 doesn't work either May 24 22:06:01 I haven't tried if after the upgrade to ubuntu hardy May 24 22:06:08 at least it tells me what to do May 24 22:06:39 disable vdso and lower mmap (?) value May 24 22:06:49 right May 24 22:07:29 sb-login tells me half of it (the vdso thing) May 24 22:09:30 ah, the other magic command is May 24 22:09:31 echo 4096 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr May 24 22:09:51 looks like both scratchboxes work now May 24 22:10:17 I edited sysctl to make it permanent May 24 22:11:02 hm, interesting error May 24 22:11:06 ERROR: ld.so: object 'libsb2.so.1' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored. May 24 22:11:12 at the end of the build May 24 22:11:22 looks like this is when it tried to gpg sign my .changes file May 24 22:12:10 okay the instructions at http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install.html work for me after the sysctl changes on ubuntu hardy May 24 22:12:55 cost in disk space: 3.2 gigs May 24 22:13:12 plus whatever the maemo-sdk deb and its dependencies weigh May 24 22:13:26 for everything else, there's mastercard May 24 22:14:33 * mgedmin gives in and adds the SDK repository to sources.list on hisl N810 May 24 22:14:40 * mgedmin wants strace, and gdb, and xauth May 24 22:14:49 hey, where's xauth? May 24 22:19:16 well, it's an opportunity to test sb2 for real May 24 22:29:43 why does xauth depend on the C preprocessor? May 24 22:30:07 bizzare May 24 22:32:48 uh, oh, I'm out of disk space on my n810 May 24 22:36:15 clone to sd May 24 22:40:06 how do you clone? May 24 22:40:17 ~maemoclone May 24 22:40:50 hmm May 24 22:40:58 google finds nothing for that May 24 22:41:00 what was the link to the deb? May 24 22:41:22 infobot: maemoclone is http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19639 May 24 22:41:23 KotCzarny: okay May 24 22:41:25 ~maemoclone May 24 22:41:26 rumour has it, maemoclone is http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19639 May 24 22:41:57 ah interesting, thanks May 24 22:42:06 it's funny that it was not indexed by search engines May 24 22:43:00 does this only work with the n810? May 24 22:43:05 Google finds tons of stuff for me. :P May 24 22:43:10 Any NIT. . . . May 24 22:43:49 l7: n8x0 May 24 22:44:38 That link is painful on the eyes. May 24 22:44:53 heh May 24 22:45:34 yay, ssh X forwarding works in the other direction too, now that I've installed xauth May 24 22:46:17 har har har May 24 22:46:29 mgedmin: having fun with linux? May 24 22:46:54 I've maemo-mapper running on my n810 displaying on a window on my laptop May 24 22:47:06 the gtk theme doesn't work, as there's no sapwood-server running May 24 22:47:14 but I can resize the maemo mapper window to any size I like May 24 22:48:02 hm, osso-xterm opens on the device screen despite my $DISPLAY setting May 24 22:48:13 some maemo-launcher dbus magic is interfering May 24 22:48:40 but the whole point of the excercise is that I can now transfer the clipboard with xsel via X forwarding May 24 22:49:43 ... um May 24 22:51:25 stoopid! May 24 22:51:35 ssh X forwarding is entirely unnecessary when all I want to do is May 24 22:51:40 xsel | ssh mg-n810 'xsel -b --display :0' May 24 22:52:36 :) May 24 22:55:39 * mgedmin yawns May 24 22:55:42 goodnight, all May 24 23:07:40 hello May 24 23:07:53 I've installed mpd in the n810 May 24 23:08:07 I like the separation between server and interface (client) May 24 23:09:13 however, I noticed a much higher CPU consuption while playing music than with other players (mplayer, osso-media-serv) May 24 23:09:27 mpd uses about 30% CPU, while others only 0.1% May 24 23:09:56 I assume that this because the audio decoding is done by the CPU instead the DSP May 24 23:11:00 there are plans of a optimzed maemo port? May 24 23:12:19 In fact, mpd could be only a wrapper around osso-media-serv May 24 23:12:46 translating tcp/ip mpd commands into dbus messages to osso-media-serv May 24 23:13:56 0.1% is a lie May 24 23:14:09 and top is not a benchmark May 24 23:14:16 anyway... May 24 23:14:28 infobot: top is not a benchmark May 24 23:14:29 ...but top is already something else... May 24 23:14:34 ~top May 24 23:14:35 it has been said that top is acting funky - keeps segfaulting - that's an old problem I know May 24 23:14:42 if it uses CPU instead of DSP, I assume that this shortens the battery life May 24 23:14:45 infobot: forget top May 24 23:14:46 i forgot top, KotCzarny May 24 23:14:49 infobot: top is not a benchmark May 24 23:14:49 okay, KotCzarny May 24 23:15:15 KotCzarny, what should I use instead? May 24 23:15:33 decode to file or /dev/null and check the time taken May 24 23:16:27 but... let's suppose that the code contains some waiting loop May 24 23:16:32 instead of blocking May 24 23:16:43 this would make a high CPU consumption May 24 23:16:47 detectable by top May 24 23:16:50 nope May 24 23:16:57 waiting loop doesn't take cpu May 24 23:17:03 unless it's braindeadly written May 24 23:17:04 :) May 24 23:17:04 I mean, not sleeping May 24 23:17:18 yes, I'm refering to that kind of waiting loops May 24 23:17:18 then don't use such decoder May 24 23:17:19 jldiaz, the DSP is more efficient at decoding MP3s, but with the default kernel, things get locked to 330MHz when DSP is in use May 24 23:17:40 Which may actually mean more battery usage if that 30% is at 165MHz. . . . May 24 23:18:05 that's interesting, GAN8001 May 24 23:18:08 Battery usage when using the DSP, rather. May 24 23:18:29 however I noticed a much more battery draining using mpd than using, say, mplayer May 24 23:18:35 * GAN8001 hasn't actually done any testing. May 24 23:18:39 has this some sense? May 24 23:19:20 jldiaz: well, you can make a test May 24 23:19:24 but it will take some time May 24 23:19:31 my point is, if the decoder is really badly coded, and wastes CPU cycles, how could I detect it? May 24 23:19:33 ie. charge up your nokia May 24 23:19:40 According to KotCzarny, top is not the way May 24 23:19:45 then play mp3 in a loop until battery is dead May 24 23:19:49 but decoding to /dev/null and timing is not either May 24 23:19:51 measure time May 24 23:19:56 then, charge again May 24 23:20:05 and decode in a loop using another decoder May 24 23:20:14 and measure time again May 24 23:20:28 that will give you true answer how well it performs May 24 23:20:29 :) May 24 23:20:48 yes KotCzarny, I agree this would be the undeniable way, but... :-) May 24 23:20:55 I involuntary performed a different test May 24 23:21:01 I had the battery almost discharged May 24 23:21:04 :) May 24 23:21:10 then, I plugged the charger May 24 23:21:15 and played some music with mpd May 24 23:21:19 for about two hors May 24 23:21:21 hours May 24 23:21:40 when I stopped the music and unplugged the charger, the batery was still almost empty May 24 23:21:44 that alarmed me May 24 23:22:24 in other occasions, in a similar scenario but with mplayer instead of mpd, the battery gets half charged May 24 23:22:40 does this means something about the decoder? or is my battery becoming to die...? May 24 23:23:01 (starting to die, was what I meant) May 24 23:23:03 it only means that mpd discharges your battery faster when using it as player May 24 23:23:04 :) May 24 23:23:19 ok, this is what I thought May 24 23:23:30 then, I used top to compare CPU usage among mpd and mplayer May 24 23:23:35 with the aforementionated results May 24 23:23:38 ~top May 24 23:23:39 hmm... top is not a benchmark May 24 23:23:40 which points in the same direction May 24 23:23:44 :) May 24 23:23:51 I know, I know.. :) May 24 23:24:09 anyway, 30% vs. 0.1% has to mean something May 24 23:24:12 no May 24 23:24:17 even if both are lies :-) May 24 23:24:37 actually, it means that one is not the other May 24 23:24:50 top won't catch apps which use cpu in very short intervals May 24 23:25:13 KotCzarny, ok, but these apps are more battery conservative, then May 24 23:25:27 jldiaz: have you tested that? May 24 23:25:28 not necessarily May 24 23:25:29 :) May 24 23:25:42 or are you basing it on the values we shall not mention again May 24 23:25:45 my point is that the CPU% reported by top is proportional to the battery consumption of the app. May 24 23:25:53 ok, not linearly, but proportional May 24 23:25:59 not necessarily May 24 23:26:00 :) May 24 23:26:36 i don't know if it would work but try setting interval to 0.1 May 24 23:26:38 s May 24 23:26:38 :) May 24 23:26:52 ok, but mpd discharged my battery faster than mplayer May 24 23:27:17 so this implies a more inefficient implementation May 24 23:27:20 tricks are expensive May 24 23:27:23 so, coming to my original cuestion... May 24 23:27:45 there is someone working in a more optimized mpd for tablets? May 24 23:28:14 there's a lot of people working on a lot of similar things, but nothing really well done anywhere much May 24 23:28:26 there are way too many media players for the maemo platform May 24 23:28:50 and my other question (answered by Knirch, I don't know if the others agree) May 24 23:28:53 so since mpd "works" I doubt it gets too much attention May 24 23:29:01 there is no such thing as too many apps May 24 23:29:02 would it be more battery conservative a DSP based implementation? May 24 23:29:02 :) May 24 23:29:08 Knirch answered: on the contrary May 24 23:29:14 KotCzarny: too many -different- apps May 24 23:29:17 KotCzarny: I agree May 24 23:29:42 fireun: i would agree if it was, too many different protocols May 24 23:29:42 I've not answered anything May 24 23:29:50 I've questioned your _assumptions_ May 24 23:29:56 KotCzarny: but if there are many, and they suck uniformly, and none really give much feature advantage... then there are too many May 24 23:29:58 if they all use common ipc, then it's fine May 24 23:29:58 Knirch, ok, I stand corrected May 24 23:29:59 isn't it? May 24 23:30:00 :) May 24 23:30:30 so my question remains unanswered :-) May 24 23:31:03 jldiaz: from a user interaction point of view, anything that can be done elsewhere and leave cycles for your main cpu will improve your experience, but says nothing about battery drainage May 24 23:31:59 (depending on how everything is connected and if they share memory bus, if the app is memory intensive, etc, etc, etc, etc) May 24 23:32:07 Knirch, aha... But since I'm interested in the case of playing music. while no other activity is performed in the tablet, I'm mostly interested in battery life May 24 23:32:26 and looking for efficient players (in this sense) May 24 23:32:27 jldiaz, if the cpu has clocked itself down to powersave speed (166mhz) then any process running at that will be showing as higher cpu usage than the same app running under the 400mhz performance branch. May 24 23:32:47 lcuk: that doesn't apply if you use dsp May 24 23:32:49 lcuk, that is interesting too... May 24 23:32:51 and if the app uses the DSP versus the cpu then similar swings can occur May 24 23:33:02 cpu is set to 330/220 then no matter what cpufreq you have set May 24 23:33:11 jldiaz: I'd say: fully charge your nokia, play the same song on repeat, measure the time it takes until it shuts down. Do repeat with next player, and next.. and next.. May 24 23:33:12 so in the end, the only experiment which could give me a true answer, would be the one suggested by KotCzarny May 24 23:33:14 (or 400/133 if you use op_patch) May 24 23:33:27 jldiaz: and do NOTHING else with it for the duration May 24 23:33:34 KotCzarny, o-rly, powersave=166, ondemand between 166 and 400, performance 400 May 24 23:33:56 lcuk: play some mp3, check again May 24 23:34:00 :) May 24 23:34:00 Knirch, could you think in some way of perform this experiment automatically, i.e. without my supervision? May 24 23:34:18 (using dsp decoder of course) May 24 23:34:21 when dsp in action i know - i was playing on hooiday and the max top total super speed dropped May 24 23:34:24 fireun, you're working under the assumption that work going into many mediocre media players is work that would otherwise go into one awesome one, which is a stupid assumption. . . . May 24 23:34:37 lcuk: it's not dropped May 24 23:34:38 it's set May 24 23:34:44 no matter what is cpu load May 24 23:34:50 it's locked to dsp op freq May 24 23:34:51 :) May 24 23:34:59 GAN800++ May 24 23:35:10 yer, the upper limit changes from 400 without dsp to whatever it is when running dsp May 24 23:35:43 lcuk: install kernel with op patch for a test May 24 23:35:46 I think that I could write a small program which measures the time between its starting and the notification of "low-battery", and writes that time in some log... May 24 23:35:53 and you can choose what op mode dsp should use May 24 23:35:58 :) May 24 23:36:05 GAN800: I think you assuming what I'm assuming is... well, inaccurate (: May 24 23:36:19 so you could test your app with standard and hacked speeds without reboot May 24 23:36:20 :) May 24 23:36:22 jldiaz, battery-monitor cab do x time reports. May 24 23:36:35 It is, fireun. May 24 23:36:36 I assume that programs receive some kind of signal on low-battery condition May 24 23:36:46 jldiaz: yes, kill May 24 23:36:47 ;) May 24 23:36:49 jldiaz, nitapps.com May 24 23:36:53 when the systems goes down :) May 24 23:37:00 "AWOOGA AWOOGA, ABANDON SHIP!" May 24 23:37:02 hehe, KotCzarny May 24 23:37:07 I meant, *before* that May 24 23:37:14 when the alert appears on screen May 24 23:37:18 probably some info on dbus May 24 23:37:23 but you have to listen to it May 24 23:37:24 :) May 24 23:37:41 ok, I can do some research about that May 24 23:38:10 fireun, if you've got such an awesome idea for a media player, why don't you join a project and help make it that? :) May 24 23:39:10 hrm May 24 23:39:15 i should find me some breakfast May 24 23:44:36 I've got a dual-monitor N800 setup going here . . . TV on one, irc/web on the other. May 24 23:45:10 * KotCzarny has quadruple-monitor setup May 24 23:45:30 1x 1600x1200, 2x1024x768, 1x800x480 May 24 23:47:54 GAN800: there you go assuming again (: May 24 23:48:14 I dont believe I said anything to that affect May 24 23:48:22 or effect either May 24 23:48:38 affected effect May 24 23:48:46 heh, yes. May 24 23:49:16 * KotCzarny has pierogi May 24 23:49:37 is that like french orange juice? May 24 23:49:41 nope May 24 23:49:51 is it a legal word? May 24 23:49:59 depends May 24 23:50:04 in the same way as pizza May 24 23:50:04 like dictionary word May 24 23:50:04 :) May 24 23:50:31 http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/6/63/250px-Ruskie.jpg May 24 23:50:32 :) May 24 23:50:49 http://www.answers.com/topic/pierogi May 24 23:50:50 :) May 24 23:50:53 like wontons, but different May 24 23:50:58 Then quit yer bitching, fireun. ;) May 24 23:51:00 and I'm hungry either way May 24 23:51:10 GAN800: yer funny May 24 23:51:36 KotCzarny: excellent! May 24 23:51:41 polish dimsum May 24 23:52:03 KotCzarny: what kind of sauce do you (if at all) dip it in? May 24 23:52:10 none May 24 23:52:17 they are filled with cheese May 24 23:52:21 oooh May 24 23:52:47 white (cottage?) cheese May 24 23:53:01 all I've had is some toast, coffee, bananna bread, and coffee today May 24 23:53:13 not necessarily in that order May 24 23:53:17 make cheese sandwich May 24 23:53:18 :) May 24 23:53:21 *a May 24 23:53:41 right, theres quesadillas being made, very close and I may have to step out and get one. (: May 24 23:53:52 ;) May 24 23:54:08 hmm, grilled cottage cheese sandwitch... that, may not be advisable. May 24 23:54:15 sand witch? May 24 23:54:16 ;) May 24 23:54:28 sorry, for some reason the spell checker isnt working May 24 23:54:47 * KotCzarny never uses spell checkers May 24 23:55:02 (other than builtin in my brain of course) May 24 23:55:02 :) May 24 23:55:17 * fireun thinks KotCzarny just got it May 25 00:17:11 i wish I'd have known what I know about ssh 10 years ago May 25 00:58:03 do you guys talk about hardware here or just software? May 25 00:58:27 Everything from software to firearms. May 25 00:58:33 oh cool May 25 00:58:39 well, i ordered my N810 May 25 00:58:50 should be here later this week May 25 00:58:53 and i had some questions May 25 00:58:55 grats May 25 00:59:13 i wanted to try and get my CDU-550 modem to work May 25 00:59:30 it seems all you need is usbserial.ko May 25 00:59:51 my question is about getting it powered May 25 01:00:12 in usb host mode, how much can the N810 produce through usb? May 25 01:00:23 100 mA May 25 01:00:31 AKA low power USB May 25 01:01:02 at most 2 such devices May 25 01:02:17 CDMA Max < 700mA May 25 01:02:21 ok May 25 01:02:26 so id need another power source May 25 01:02:33 yes, a powered hub May 25 01:02:38 http://www.cyberpowersystems.com:80/products/accessories/usb_hubs/cph420mp.html May 25 01:02:40 would that work? May 25 01:03:30 most likely May 25 01:03:47 check what the batteries are - if it's possible to find replacements May 25 01:03:59 4 double A's May 25 01:04:11 ah, so just get it May 25 01:04:16 sorry May 25 01:04:18 truple A May 25 01:04:25 it's a bit large for a device as small as N810 still :> May 25 01:06:59 and what;s the word on silverlight? May 25 01:07:04 moonlight May 25 01:07:06 or whatever May 25 01:07:36 id really like to watch my baseball games;) May 25 01:09:52 and that hub doesnt look that big May 25 01:10:04 i could prolly fit the N810 and that in a pocket pretty easily May 25 01:10:37 there are ports of mono already availible May 25 01:10:53 available* May 25 01:11:36 so that would give me the ability to view sites that use silverlight? May 25 01:13:41 http://ecanuto.blogspot.com/2008/05/mono-191-and-winforms-available-for.html May 25 01:13:46 its just mono May 25 01:32:52 Hey, milhouse, what's the word? May 25 01:35:30 umm...not much... network problems :) May 25 01:37:12 Ah, right, the 103. May 25 01:37:34 s/103/113/ May 25 01:37:34 GAN800 meant: Ah, right, the 113. May 25 01:37:50 Hi, I'm having trouble with mogg. I tried installing it and got an error that libvorbisidec1 was missing. I previously installed ogg-support, but uninstalled it when I found out that mogg handled tags. Can anyone help find out what's wrong? May 25 01:47:23 Am I supposed to be root to use apt-get? May 25 01:48:05 yes May 25 01:48:12 ~easyroot May 25 01:48:17 methinks easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com May 25 01:50:02 thanks May 25 01:56:20 ok, it was a false alarm, still can't get wireless on johnx's distrib May 25 01:56:38 i think his "wireless just works" comment on the wiki is a bit off mark :) May 25 01:57:08 Works fine here. . . . May 25 02:00:12 GAN, mind pasting your /etc/network/interfaces (x'ing out the psk of course). May 25 02:01:05 Non-existent at the moment. May 25 02:01:33 I nuked the card two days ago in preparation for a resetup for Diablo. May 25 02:01:40 interesting, full debian May 25 02:01:46 Haven't gotten around to it yet. May 25 02:02:39 did you do any significant tweaking or just add the wpa lines in that file? May 25 02:03:13 Just changed/added the appropriate lines. May 25 02:04:42 no need to issue iwconfig or ifconfig commands, then... May 25 02:07:22 All right, I think I took care of it! May 25 02:08:17 cactaur: you also spend time in pharyngula? :) May 25 02:08:37 summatusmentis: I didn't know you were here too! May 25 02:08:51 lol, just purchased an N810 May 25 02:09:17 I really need to stop spending so much time on irc, you're in here, natefoo is in #openafs May 25 02:09:20 it's scary May 25 02:09:32 hahahahah May 25 02:10:47 so, you have an N8x0 series, at least, I hope May 25 02:11:07 yeah May 25 02:11:51 N800 May 25 02:12:02 cool, do you do anything interesting with it? May 25 02:12:18 I'm looking to hack on my N810 to make it almost as usable as my lappy May 25 02:13:43 Well, as far as I know, the only thing a tablet can't do that a laptop can is type quickly. And you can get a bluetooth keyboard to fix that problem. May 25 02:15:06 I've got Pidgin because I don't think I can convince all of my friends to use Jabber. May 25 02:15:35 well, N810 has a thumb board, I'm relatively proficient May 25 02:16:20 Ah... well.... lucky you! I just managed to get ogg support on my N800.... but it didn't work out the way I wanted it to. May 25 02:16:46 The media player hasn't read my tags. May 25 02:16:56 don't super type on a bt kb though, you'll overload it and it'll do funky stuff May 25 02:17:27 oh, hahaha May 25 02:18:30 i was speed-typing a reply email to my boss and i wrote "i appreciate your feedback and..." and it turned into "fuck you, asshole" May 25 02:18:46 hahahaha May 25 02:18:47 cactar, jabber transports, rtcomm beta or the appropriate telepathy addon from colabora. May 25 02:19:17 I've read that there aren't really that great transports for Yahoo! Messenger. May 25 02:19:36 pidgin does yahoo, not sure how good/bad it is May 25 02:19:55 pidgin sucks hard on the tablets. May 25 02:20:04 oh? May 25 02:20:29 Taked up a taskbar slot all the time, you always haave to think about it. May 25 02:20:44 rtcomm is all automatic and pain free. May 25 02:20:48 oh yeh, i removed the taskbar slot in preferences May 25 02:21:26 cactaur, look at the colabora telepathy addons or rtcomm beta, then. May 25 02:21:50 how do you make the matchbox kb black and not the default white? May 25 02:23:17 Well, I only use pidgin when I can't use my Desktop. If pidgin becomes intolerable enough, I could probably just use gizmo. May 25 02:26:37 Gizmo still sucks May 25 02:27:09 seriously, just ise the built-in rtcomm that doesn't suck. It does sip for Gizmo, too. May 25 02:27:59 a lot of hte screenshots i see show a black kb how do i get one? May 25 02:31:45 hrmm, guess no easier way than editing the images or getting a theme with a black one.. May 25 02:38:14 erm... I should stop changing the ssid's on routers my parents don't own **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 25 02:59:56 2008