**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 28 02:59:57 2008
May 28 03:23:10 <summatusmentis> GAN8001: that would've been good to know :)
May 28 03:24:14 <GAN800> Slipped my mind. ;)
May 28 03:28:56 <summatusmentis> no worries, it just means my n810 is not terribly exciting until they're back up
May 28 03:48:34 <scriptex> anyone here have a problem installing pluthon on os2008?
May 28 03:48:50 <scriptex> depends maemo-pc-connectivity (broken packages)
May 28 03:53:04 <beford> if its trying to install a package from the repositories it will probably fail
May 28 03:54:41 <nikosapi> not sure if I'm asking in the right place, but does anyone know where I can get sshfs for OS 2008?
May 28 03:55:34 <scriptex> beford: thanks, I'll try to find the deb package
May 28 04:09:01 <scriptex> anyone know where can I download the deb packages aside from the repository (which is erroring)
May 28 04:26:23 <johnx> nikosapi, http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/download/target/pool/chinook/free/binary/
May 28 04:29:50 <lopz> night
May 28 04:32:36 <scriptex> night
May 28 04:44:25 <nikosapi> johnx: cool, thanks! It works perfectly :)
May 28 04:44:34 <johnx> :)
May 28 04:51:24 <beford> repositories seem to be working again
May 28 04:55:16 <timely> there's an old mirror of things at http://timeless.justdave.net/repository/repository.maemo.org/
May 28 04:55:30 <timely> http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/repository-maemo-org-dns.deb
May 28 04:55:37 <timely> would bind it if you need it for a bit
May 28 04:55:54 <timely> when you're done, just uninstall the deb
May 28 04:55:55 <johnx> :D You love those DNS-adjusting .deb's huh?
May 28 04:56:29 <timely> i can't remember which one i wrote first :)
May 28 04:56:34 <timely> but code reuse is code reuse
May 28 06:19:37 <zetheroo> I am wondering why my N800 does not see any of the shared content on the network?
May 28 06:54:02 <RST38h> Aaaargh! N810 ate its battery during the night
May 28 06:54:39 <karbas> what?
May 28 06:54:40 <Proteous> how did it taste?
May 28 06:54:43 <karbas> not mine
May 28 06:59:48 <herwood> good morning
May 28 07:02:38 <herwood> I'm trying to hack the osso file manager. Does someone know that what should I do to make it possible to drag files from the file manager to other widget?
May 28 07:11:03 <RST38h> Space station's toilet begins to fail, panic sinking in
May 28 07:11:29 <RST38h> herwood: you probably can't
May 28 07:11:50 <RST38h> at least API does not show any evidence of drag&drop support
May 28 07:13:18 <herwood> so is the drag&drop implemented only internally in file manager?
May 28 07:14:33 <herwood> I'm having these problems because I'm not familiar with drag&drop functionality :P
May 28 07:16:31 <RST38h> herwood: I do not think it is implemented in hildon fm
May 28 07:16:53 <herwood> hmm
May 28 07:19:21 <herwood> RST38h: but it is possible to drag for example files to other directories in fm or am I missing something here?
May 28 07:19:53 <RST38h> yea, you can do it internally
May 28 07:20:03 <RST38h> it is just not exposed
May 28 07:20:37 <RST38h> wait, there may be a way to hack it, let me check
May 28 07:20:45 <herwood> ok thanks
May 28 07:23:45 <RST38h> herwood: I have checked and none of the hildondesktop windows appear to accept drag&drop events
May 28 07:23:56 <RST38h> looks like it is not supported after all
May 28 07:24:30 <RST38h> there is some discussion of drag&drop in hildon, but it all appears to be centered around intra-application functionality
May 28 07:24:36 <hrw> morning
May 28 07:24:40 <RST38h> ehlo
May 28 07:24:47 <RST38h> [it is your sendmail speaking]
May 28 07:25:30 <RST38h> btw, whoever was complaining about that mysterious "maemo style guide" recently, I have found it
May 28 07:25:45 <herwood> RST38h: ok thanks
May 28 07:26:07 <RST38h> maemo.org/forrest-images/pdf/UI_Style_Guide_Summary_2.0.pdf
May 28 07:26:12 <RST38h> (slightly outdated)
May 28 07:26:54 <nomis> moin.
May 28 07:45:57 * qwerty12 is happy. I figured out using the powers that be CAL how to fix my <unknown> version string in About. I also figured out how to change it to anything I want.
May 28 07:48:52 <inz> Gone to the dark side you have.
May 28 07:49:43 <qwerty12> Hehe, I was getting tired of reflashing to fix it. Plus my nitro stopped working when the CAL was dodgy, I saw it on the framebuffer output.
May 28 07:50:00 <inz> nitro?
May 28 07:50:18 <qwerty12> That bug reporting tool nokia use internally
May 28 07:50:29 <qwerty12> When a program crashes, it actually tells me what process crashed
May 28 07:50:35 <qwerty12> That's it's value to me
May 28 07:50:40 <inz> ah
May 28 07:51:40 * qwerty12 will always keep a copy of the first leak of the diablo repo. They leaked out some useful stuff which I never saw again on that repo.
May 28 07:55:20 <qwerty12> kimrhh, Are you around? Sorry about yesterday, my internet got cut off. Did you compile that module?
May 28 07:59:51 <kimrhh> qwerty12: i am :)
May 28 08:00:03 <kimrhh> qwerty12: i was hoping you would return
May 28 08:00:13 <qwerty12> I'm really sorry :/
May 28 08:00:20 <qwerty12> Did you manage to get that module compiled?
May 28 08:00:24 <kimrhh> qwerty12: no no :) no problem
May 28 08:02:23 <kimrhh> well, I think I get the module compiled allright, but when I use modinfo on it, it tells me that it's the wrong arch, and when i try to insmod it on the n810 i get "wrong exec. format" or something like that. But I think I have might tried something stupid. Since I didn't see any .ko file in the dir where I make the module, I just tried to use the .o, but that is wrong isn't it? there should be a .ko somewhere
May 28 08:02:27 <hrw> qwerty12: OS2010 53.7?
May 28 08:03:13 <qwerty12> kimrhh, .o files aren't modules. Which module are you trying to compile?
May 28 08:03:20 <qwerty12> hrw, if I wanted to ;p
May 28 08:03:30 <kimrhh> i should mention that I use a dir inside the kernel sources, with a modified Makefile from another place in the kernel source
May 28 08:03:38 <kimrhh> qwerty12: thought so
May 28 08:03:53 <kimrhh> (when I woke up and was more fresh :)
May 28 08:04:38 <kimrhh> qwerty12: it's a module we use for some research, so our own module. It is working on a Gumstix if you know that device? also an Arm CPU
May 28 08:05:09 <qwerty12> Ah, yes i've heard of gumstix :)
May 28 08:05:16 <qwerty12> brb, 1 second :)
May 28 08:07:38 <qwerty12> Ok, with an external module, when I just run make on an external, I get "make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.24-17-generic/build: No such file or directory.  Stop."
May 28 08:07:45 <qwerty12> So here is what I did
May 28 08:08:57 <qwerty12> Using nautillus as root (outside scratchbox), I went into /scratchbox/users/faheem/targets/CHINOOK_ARMEL/lib/modules
May 28 08:09:22 <qwerty12> I made a folder called 2.6.24-17-generic but this will differ on your system, check your uname
May 28 08:11:03 <qwerty12> Then I made a symlink of my Nokia kernel folder (kernel-source-rx-34-2.6.21.0) (it resides in /scratchbox/users/$USER/home/$USER/ for me) and called the symlink build
May 28 08:11:34 <qwerty12> I then moved my new build symlink into the /scratchbox/users/$USER/targets/CHINOOK_ARMEL/lib/modules/2.6.24-17-generic folder
May 28 08:12:03 <qwerty12> Then kernel modules compiled just fine with make and a *.ko file would be in my module folder.
May 28 08:12:28 <qwerty12> I must add that I compiled a Nokia Stock/Generic kernel in my kernel-source-rx-34-2.6.21.0 to make sure
May 28 08:21:43 <Jaffa> Morning, all
May 28 08:21:48 <qwerty12> morning
May 28 08:27:10 <hrw> jo Jaffa
May 28 08:27:20 <trickie> howdy
May 28 08:28:13 <hrw> who will be tomorrow on linuxtag?
May 28 08:33:17 <kimrhh> qwerty12: kool
May 28 08:33:23 <kimrhh> qwerty12: cool even :)
May 28 08:33:28 <kimrhh> qwerty12: and thx
May 28 08:33:29 <qwerty12> hehe :)
May 28 08:33:47 <kimrhh> I'll try that tonight when I get home to my dev machine
May 28 08:39:48 <trickie> hrw: i will be
May 28 08:39:55 <trickie> hrw: you?
May 28 08:40:12 <hrw> just printed tickets
May 28 08:40:31 <trickie> nice
May 28 08:40:36 <hrw> I have to think which bag to get
May 28 08:40:59 <hrw> and to take laptop or not. if I will take it then probably would have to show maemo in qemu...
May 28 08:41:13 <kimrhh> qwerty12: what command did you use to make? "make -C build/ -M=`pwd´ ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-" or just "make" ? because I don't see how you get a Makefile by doing what you told me there :)
May 28 08:41:20 <trickie> hrw: yes please
May 28 08:41:35 <trickie> hrw: i have been experiementing with mamona in qemu
May 28 08:41:45 <trickie> using latest poky .bb's
May 28 08:41:52 <qwerty12> kimrhh, the external modules I compiled already had a makefile :)
May 28 08:42:57 <hrw> crap - linuxtag eticket is in german only..
May 28 08:43:45 <hrw> trickie: qemu on 600MHz x86 is not so fun
May 28 08:44:46 <trickie> hrw: ha ha i could imagine, sometimes not too fun a core duo 2.33 either :)
May 28 08:45:09 * qwerty12 hasn't tried on a 2.8GHz core duo with 2gb ram :p
May 28 08:45:21 <hrw> trickie: on my athlon64 x2 2.2GHz it was ok.
May 28 08:45:36 <hrw> trickie: it was even more ok on core2quad 2.4GHz
May 28 08:46:02 <trickie> yeah its definately usable, i just meant compared to a 600MHz x86 i could imagine
May 28 08:46:04 <hrw> but this laptop is 1.6GHz working on 600MHz... I suspect cpu fan
May 28 08:46:18 <trickie> ouch, that must be frustrating
May 28 08:50:07 <hrw> time to look at updating qemu again - n810 keyboard is in now
May 28 08:50:34 <trickie> hrw: yeah i was taking a look at that... trying to get a recent omap kernel working on it
May 28 08:51:01 <trickie> its the OH guys/gals adding that support to qemu yeah?
May 28 08:52:52 <hrw> trickie: Andrew (irc:balrog) works for OH and is our qemu hacker
May 28 08:53:14 <hrw> he added Sharp Zaurus, Openmoko neo1973 to qemu and few more
May 28 08:53:33 <trickie> hrw: cool! yeah i have been looking at some of his recent qemu patches
May 28 08:54:04 <trickie> hrw: gonna try get a full emulated sdk for mamona (ala poky style) when i get back from berlin
May 28 09:14:57 <Gatestone> Trying this out, just installed Scratchbox, now installing the MAEMO SDK...I have Ubuntu, but it was not clear to me if the installation would be straightforward and similar on a Red Hat machine? (Like my vmware Centos installation..)
May 28 09:15:50 <qwerty12> Not really, sbox and deb prefer to use apt/dpkg/deb based distributions. But it can be installed on a non-deb distro too.
May 28 09:15:58 <qwerty12> *sbox and sdk
May 28 09:20:01 <kimrhh> qwerty12: hehe ok, could you tell me what they are?
May 28 09:20:13 <kimrhh> qwerty12: then I could still ideas from them
May 28 09:20:49 <qwerty12> There was this module: http://www.asix.com.tw/FrootAttach/driver/AX88772_772A_178_LINUX2.6.14_REV105.zip - after making the symlink, this one compiles brilliantly
May 28 09:22:14 * qwerty12 waits for my kernel with CONFIG_TIMER_STATS to compile :/
May 28 09:23:57 * qwerty12 now goes and installs strace into initfs
May 28 09:24:31 <hrw> hi florian
May 28 09:25:19 <flo_lap> hi all
May 28 09:26:57 <hrw> flo_lap: how goes LT?
May 28 09:27:34 <flo_lap> hrw: not too bad - i guess i can post a photo later :)
May 28 09:29:11 <hrw> ;)
May 28 09:29:36 <hrw> flo_lap: how many stands between OE and T2?
May 28 09:30:18 <flo_lap> hrw: two demopoints :)
May 28 09:30:29 <hrw> enough ;)
May 28 09:31:59 * qwerty12 is a tosser. I can't believe I ran halt by accident >.<
May 28 09:35:56 <sp3000> ...hammerzeit
May 28 09:35:59 * sp3000 dances
May 28 09:55:57 <Gatestone> Sorry, did anyone answer me? My connection droppe...
May 28 09:56:03 <Gatestone> d
May 28 09:57:19 <trickie> Gatestone: its still straight forward but doesn't .debs to install it all
May 28 09:57:29 <trickie> doesn't use .debs
May 28 09:57:36 <trickie> obviously
May 28 09:58:52 <Gatestone> Ok, but my next question: can I run a command line hello.c in MAEMo
May 28 09:59:07 <RST38h> yes
May 28 09:59:45 <trickie> Gatestone: yeah, you can compile it in scratchbox for ARM or x86 in scratchbox
May 28 09:59:55 <Gatestone> So how? Using the same commands as for maemo_hello.c results in the hello.c running in sbox window, not in a terminal on Xephyr?
May 28 10:00:44 <Gatestone> run-standalone.sh ./maemo_hello runs it in sbox...?
May 28 10:01:11 <Gatestone> I mean run-standalone.sh ./command_line_hello
May 28 10:01:20 <RST38h> where do you want to run it?
May 28 10:01:45 <Gatestone> In a Xephyr terminal Window? Or in a real device Terminal Window?
May 28 10:03:34 <trickie> Gatestone: in sb, compile it for ARM, copy it to the device, and then in oss-xterm run it
May 28 10:04:21 <trickie> s/oss-xterm/osso-xterm/
May 28 10:04:21 <infobot> trickie meant: Gatestone: in sb, compile it for ARM, copy it to the device, and then in osso-xterm run it
May 28 10:04:37 <Gatestone> Actually I don't have the device here. How do I run it in a Xephyr window?
May 28 10:05:14 <Gatestone> Should I install osso-xterm first to the Xephyr environment? How?
May 28 10:05:41 <Gatestone> Sorry but is my first night with this...
May 28 10:06:35 <Gatestone> My Application manager seems to do nothing? Shows no available packages?
May 28 10:09:31 <Gatestone> I am currentlyu compiling for CHINOOK-X86
May 28 10:09:59 <Gatestone> How do I get osso-xterm running?
May 28 10:10:16 <qwerty12> You don't need it, you use the scratchbox to run commands
May 28 10:11:25 <Gatestone> But I want to see my command line programs running in the Xephyr Window?
May 28 10:11:38 <qwerty12> hrw, is config partition checksummed?
May 28 10:11:44 <Gatestone> So pretending it a the real device?
May 28 10:11:57 <hrw> qwerty12: no idea
May 28 10:12:04 <qwerty12> ah, ok thanks.
May 28 10:12:07 <qwerty12> Gatestone, http://andrew.olmsted.ca/maemo/osso-xterm/
May 28 10:12:18 <qwerty12> It's meant for real device but I've installed in sbox fine
May 28 10:12:21 <qwerty12> use dpkg
May 28 10:12:33 <qwerty12> and make sure you apt-get the ttf-bitstream-vera too
May 28 10:13:47 <Gatestone> So in  scratchbox I can use apt-get?
May 28 10:13:51 <qwerty12> yes
May 28 10:14:03 <trickie> Gatestone: also the SDK stuff is not an emulator, so things maybe behave differently or not at all
May 28 10:16:43 <Gatestone> Ok, just to test I tried to apt-get install osso-clock, but it gives errors about permissions...
May 28 10:17:13 <Gatestone> sudo apt-get... says "sudo must be setuid root"?
May 28 10:17:35 <Gatestone> Should i use sudo with apt-get in Scratchbox or not?
May 28 10:17:53 <qwerty12> fakeroot
May 28 10:18:50 <Gatestone> "FAKEROOTKEY not defined..." ? I mean I try "fakeroot apt-get..."
May 28 10:19:22 <Gatestone> ok, I got it!
May 28 10:19:26 <Gatestone> wait
May 28 10:20:35 <Gatestone> So I got osso-clock installed wth apt-get. How do I run it in Xephyr Window?
May 28 10:25:08 <Gatestone> BTW, The Control panel on Xephyr opens an empty Window...
May 28 10:30:10 <Gatestone> Is it normal that there is no Control Panel ('/usr/share/applications/hildon-control-panel': No such file or directory in Scratchbox and empty Control Panel window in Xephyr)
May 28 10:30:49 <qwerty12> Yes. The SDK is not an emulator. I once had a working control panel and I still don't see why I bothered.
May 28 10:34:43 <Gatestone> So, can you test MAEMO apps on the SDK or not? Do you really need the device?
May 28 10:35:34 <Gatestone> And moreover: if I just manage to compile things in the Scratchbox, does it mean that basically they should run also on the device?
May 28 10:37:02 <trickie> Gatestone: you can test and compile for the target device but is not an emulator
May 28 10:38:43 <Gatestone> I mean that like the libraries and dependencies can  be tested? So if my programs run in the sbox, they are not using functionality that would not be available on MAEMO devices?
May 28 10:40:25 <trickie> yes libs and deps etc can be tested, and its where you can do your packaging
May 28 10:40:36 <trickie> i suggest reading through the documents available at maemo.org
May 28 10:40:40 <trickie> explains alot about ti
May 28 10:40:46 <trickie> it
May 28 10:41:00 <Gatestone> Well, I read the tutorials but looks like it is not so easy...
May 28 10:41:49 <Gatestone> At least not to be grasped on one night with no prior experience in cross-compiled environments..
May 28 10:42:31 <trickie> yes you are probably right
May 28 10:42:42 <trickie> its not like developing a pc dekstop app
May 28 10:43:48 <hrw> trickie: unless you have all libs and wole environment compiled for x86 and run it in xephyr
May 28 10:44:05 <hrw> teuthen you can forget about scratchbox and do development.
May 28 10:44:16 <hrw> but I do not know does it is possible with maemo
May 28 10:44:19 <trickie> yes true
May 28 10:49:44 <RST38h> Galestone: Need a shortcut?
May 28 10:49:59 <Gatestone> Yes?
May 28 10:50:45 <RST38h> Galestone: 1) Install MaemoSDK+ (based on sb2)  2) Compile stuff as you would on your host system, but add "sb2" in front of gcc and other tools 3) When compiled, copy binary to the tablet using scp and run it using ssh
May 28 10:51:11 <RST38h> And, probably, 4)Avoid using autoconf and friends
May 28 10:52:02 <Gatestone> I don't have the device, I was hoping to use CHINOOK-X86 and Xephyr
May 28 10:54:04 <hrw> autotools and friends are good company
May 28 10:54:22 <hrw> if maemo does not handle them properly then maemo is broken
May 28 10:54:54 <RST38h> Gatestone: these are braindamaged, unfortunately
May 28 10:55:00 <RST38h> hrw: it handles them properly
May 28 10:55:14 <RST38h> hrw: the main problem is the amount of garbage they create in your project directory
May 28 10:56:20 <RST38h> CFLAGS = `sb2 pkg-config gtk+-2.0 gconf-2.0 libosso hildon-1  hildon-fm-2 --cfl
May 28 10:56:32 <RST38h> ags --libs`
May 28 10:56:50 <RST38h> Or something of this kind.
May 28 10:58:25 <MangoFusion> sometimes i wish the maemo sdk was as good as the iphone sdk ;)
May 28 11:00:21 <wazd> iPhone SDK suxx
May 28 11:00:35 <wazd> it's like you're sitting in the sanbox
May 28 11:00:43 <wazd> with highvoltage walls
May 28 11:00:50 <trickie> Gatestone: an alternative if you just want to start playing with hildon etc is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
May 28 11:01:09 <Veggen> wazd: Apple has never been a proponent of open systems and freedom, no.
May 28 11:01:12 <trickie> Gatestone: then you can use a dev setup similar to what hrw described above
May 28 11:01:18 <wazd> It's good nicely designed sandbox
May 28 11:01:24 <RST38h> Mango: I.e. you wish it came with a toilet plunger?
May 28 11:01:28 <wazd> with good sand and pretty forms :)
May 28 11:01:51 <wazd> But with armed guards by the perrimeter
May 28 11:01:54 <Veggen> wazd: Exactly. That's apple for you. The only reason they're better than MS is that their solutions are technically better, but they
May 28 11:02:01 <Veggen> 're not more open.
May 28 11:02:25 <trickie> Gatestone: ie. platform compiled for x86 that runs under a xephyr instance
May 28 11:02:43 <wazd> But iPhone SDK is still better for UI designing :(
May 28 11:02:54 <trickie> Gatestone: i think anyway.. as i have not tried it
May 28 11:09:10 <fysa> see: webkit
May 28 11:09:58 <fysa> imagine Microsoft opening any part of IE.
May 28 11:10:09 <glass> Veggen: apple are the lock-in kings..
May 28 11:10:30 <fysa> they just know when to pick their battles.
May 28 11:11:16 <glass> if steve could choose, all osx soft would be sold on itunes
May 28 11:11:37 <MangoFusion> i don't really have much of an issue with the sandboxing. it's not as if i'd want to jump out and read a load of files or anything
May 28 11:16:44 <RST38h> fysa: Microsoft opened part of IE
May 28 11:17:20 <RST38h> Mango: Do you have an issue with having to pay $100 to Jobs just to distribute your program?
May 28 11:18:01 <RST38h> Maybe you happen to have an issue with the fact that Apple may refuse distributing your program at any moment, telling you to go fuck yourself?
May 28 11:18:18 <MangoFusion> not if i am making money out of it ;)
May 28 11:18:28 <RST38h> Ok.
May 28 11:18:43 <RST38h> Let us say you are making money out of it but then Apple says "go fuck yourself"
May 28 11:18:53 <RST38h> Will this be satisfactory for you?
May 28 11:19:44 <MangoFusion> that would be quite unfortunate. i'd hope that they were quite lenient as to what they find acceptable to distribute
May 28 11:19:55 <RST38h> They will not be
May 28 11:20:22 <MangoFusion> but hey - there are plenty of other platforms to target
May 28 11:20:34 <RST38h> For example, Sun can't port its Java to iPhone because Apple SDK licensing terms explicitely prohibit virtual machine development
May 28 11:20:37 <MangoFusion> including just the browser
May 28 11:21:04 <glass> RST38h: i don't have an issue with paying to apple or 30% of revenue share going to them, thats not actually too bad distributors share nowadays..
May 28 11:21:10 <RST38h> Yea, you can target a different platform. But then, what does Apple SDK have to do with it?
May 28 11:21:17 <glass> RST38h: the issue is as you say is them being the one to choose what you can do or not
May 28 11:21:28 <RST38h> glass: I pay ~11% to my CC processor
May 28 11:21:46 <glass> RST38h: talking about mobile soft distribution in general
May 28 11:21:57 <RST38h> 30% is a lot if all they do is placing your program onto some ftp-like server
May 28 11:22:00 <glass> RST38h: sms etc, or cc where there are multiple hands in between
May 28 11:22:13 <MangoFusion> one can see why that is prohibited as they would be loosing money from licensing as developers could just skip them when distributing
May 28 11:22:17 <RST38h> glass: you don'tneed most of this crap
May 28 11:22:21 <glass> RST38h: handling the sms stuff with the 300+ operators
May 28 11:22:29 <RST38h> Why do you need sms stuff?
May 28 11:23:04 <glass> RST38h: for mobile convinient payments
May 28 11:23:10 <RST38h> Mango: Well, they would be losing money anyway, after all, they COULD WRITE ï¤ALL THES PROGRAMTHEMSELVES! :)
May 28 11:23:21 <glass> RST38h: handango etc take 30% with cc too
May 28 11:23:32 <RST38h> glass: That is why I broke dist deal with Handango
May 28 11:23:50 <RST38h> glass: They don't sell a shit, charge 30%, and behave like if they are some kind of AT&T
May 28 11:24:01 <MangoFusion> in any case, will be interesting to see how the app store pans out
May 28 11:24:08 <glass> RST38h: do they even still have proper sms payments?
May 28 11:24:17 <RST38h> glass: No idea
May 28 11:24:27 <MangoFusion> or even if it will be replicated on other platforms (e.g. maemo)
May 28 11:24:47 <glass> RST38h: anyways, sms, wap etc payments are needed for selling the high volume entertainment shit
May 28 11:24:59 <glass> RST38h: doesn't matter that much for more sophisticated apps
May 28 11:25:12 <RST38h> WAP - no longer being used
May 28 11:25:16 <RST38h> SMS - well, may be
May 28 11:25:24 <glass> RST38h: but most game publishers etc don't see that much of the revenue
May 28 11:25:25 <RST38h> for ringtones :)
May 28 11:25:47 <glass> RST38h: for registering stuff etc sms is used too
May 28 11:25:48 <glass> and games
May 28 11:26:04 <RST38h> glass: actually, I can run SMS distribution out of my house
May 28 11:26:23 <RST38h> Even wrote the software for that
May 28 11:26:33 <glass> RST38h: and make the deals with every operator on the planet yourself? true you can cover a lot of them with something like ericcson ipx
May 28 11:26:40 <glass> it's not the soft thats the problem
May 28 11:26:44 <glass> but the deals..
May 28 11:26:45 <RST38h> It is kind of pointless though
May 28 11:26:56 <RST38h> glass: I only need a phone to send SMS messages
May 28 11:27:10 <glass> RST38h: to receive payments with it
May 28 11:27:12 <RST38h> Can't do payments easily
May 28 11:27:18 <RST38h> but distribution - no problem
May 28 11:27:32 <glass> yes thats not a problem
May 28 11:27:56 <glass> (anyways, i work in a company involved in this)
May 28 11:33:11 <mgedmin810> anyone at linuxtag?
May 28 11:34:31 * hrw goes tomorrow
May 28 11:34:49 <hrw> have to wake ~6 inthe morning
May 28 11:39:53 <KotCzarny> http://www.techamok.com/?pid=4596
May 28 11:39:54 <KotCzarny> lol
May 28 11:41:58 * qwerty12_N800 is pissed off that messenger service is disappeared in my xp :/
May 28 11:42:56 <hrw> KotCzarny: sure
May 28 11:43:18 <hrw> KotCzarny: people mostly think about such acts as music/video/software piracy
May 28 11:43:49 <hrw> I wonder does people going to US would have to take all NDA papers for NDA files on their laptops to prove that they are worth reading them
May 28 11:43:52 <KotCzarny> i like 'right to destruct' part
May 28 11:44:06 <KotCzarny> hrw, it's not us, it's canada+eu+jp
May 28 11:44:59 <qwerty12_N800> eu? shit.
May 28 11:45:21 <glass> crap
May 28 11:46:24 <hrw> KotCzarny: first it has to be signed by eu countries
May 28 11:46:49 <KotCzarny> yeah
May 28 11:46:54 <KotCzarny> but i will be
May 28 11:46:58 <KotCzarny> sooner or later
May 28 11:47:08 <KotCzarny> be it 5 or 25 years
May 28 11:48:57 <hrw> time to invest into high bandwidth lines to china or africa
May 28 11:49:10 <KotCzarny> bad idead
May 28 11:49:12 <KotCzarny> idea
May 28 11:49:22 <KotCzarny> china could kill you for 'piracy'
May 28 11:49:30 <KotCzarny> and africa.. heh
May 28 11:49:42 <RST38h> hrw: Here is something you have to know
May 28 11:49:44 <KotCzarny> it's being destroyed
May 28 11:50:26 <RST38h> hrw: Whether EU signs this stuff or not, US court has decided that US customs have a right to seach your whole HD and other storage, same as your physical belongings
May 28 11:50:50 <RST38h> hrw: And they don't care if you carry any industrial secrets, etc.
May 28 11:51:07 <hrw> RST38h: USA is country on a list of countries which I do not plan to visit
May 28 11:51:14 <hrw> first place on a list
May 28 11:51:20 <RST38h> If you have encrypted stuff, they will ask you for a key and have a right to keep your hardware for an undefined period of time
May 28 11:51:38 <RST38h> Well, just in case you have to go there
May 28 11:51:50 <hrw> RST38h: and if I would have to then I would take my laptop without any harddrive/pendrive etc and will buy harddisk locally + debian install cd
May 28 11:51:52 <RST38h> Make sure you do not carry any sensitive stuff on your HD :)
May 28 11:52:28 <RST38h> hrw: THAT will surely make them think you are planning something! =)
May 28 11:52:29 <KotCzarny> or have a backup
May 28 11:52:31 <KotCzarny> :)
May 28 11:52:32 <hrw> the problem is that such hdd would have to stay iin us to not give me any problems on passing border next time
May 28 11:53:14 <qwerty12_N800> hrw, I like that idea :>
May 28 11:53:33 <hrw> qwerty12_N800: it came to my mind when I first time read about problem
May 28 11:54:13 <hrw> I even have crap enough phone to not have anything illegal to put on it
May 28 11:54:41 <hrw> nokia 6230i or something - never used it for calling
May 28 11:55:02 <hrw> no storage for files (as no mmc card inside slot)
May 28 11:55:08 <RST38h> you can juststore stuff online and access it with scp
May 28 11:55:22 <KotCzarny> sshfs
May 28 11:55:23 <KotCzarny> :)
May 28 11:55:34 <hrw> sshfs does not handle ports other then 22 ;(
May 28 11:55:36 <RST38h> They still do not have right to force this information out of you while you are inside the country
May 28 11:55:42 <KotCzarny> hrw no?
May 28 11:55:45 <KotCzarny> -p port
May 28 11:55:45 <RST38h> You have a right not to incriminate yourself
May 28 11:55:46 <KotCzarny> :)
May 28 11:55:57 <hrw> KotCzarny: hm. last time when I checked I missed it
May 28 11:56:06 <hrw> my home machine is not on 22
May 28 11:56:10 <KotCzarny> or -o port=PORT
May 28 11:56:19 <KotCzarny> try sshfs -h
May 28 11:56:32 <hrw> 40 minutes to have a copy of maemo image for qemu..
May 28 11:56:42 <hrw> and 2h to end qemu compilation ;(
May 28 11:57:41 <qwerty12_N800> what machine? took me 1/2 hour :(
May 28 11:57:51 <qwerty12_N800> *half-hour
May 28 11:57:57 <hrw> pentium-M 600MHz with 5400rpm disk
May 28 11:58:04 <qwerty12_N800> eek
May 28 11:58:24 <KotCzarny> hrw, just bump speed temporarily
May 28 11:58:24 <patoh> wouldn't suck much power but :D
May 28 11:58:25 <KotCzarny> :)
May 28 11:58:52 <teenel> I used mplayer -ac mad to play video but there's no sound in my n800, the audio is code by lame. I also tried ffmp3 and dspmp3, no help
May 28 11:59:07 <hrw> KotCzarny: bumping to 1.6GHz switch back to 600 in less then 1s
May 28 11:59:23 <KotCzarny> hrw, switch to userspace cpufreq?
May 28 12:00:02 <hrw> KotCzarny: http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/05/27/stuck-at-600mhz/
May 28 12:00:44 <ssvb> teenel: do you have a log from mplayer?
May 28 12:00:51 <hrw> and when I think that 5-6 years ago my desktop was even slower... duron/600 with 128MB ram
May 28 12:01:16 <KotCzarny> hrw, i remember my thinkpad did something similiar when switching power options in bios
May 28 12:01:31 <KotCzarny> ie. locking cpu to 600-1000 (instead of 600-1600)
May 28 12:01:35 <hrw> KotCzarny: in bios it is set to fastest possible
May 28 12:01:43 <teenel> ssvb:it said mad cann't codec the audio format
May 28 12:01:47 <KotCzarny> and lowering other things too
May 28 12:01:59 <KotCzarny> try another kernel version?
May 28 12:02:20 <teenel> ssvb: but I can use mad to decode the audio format in my PC
May 28 12:02:30 <hrw> KotCzarny: 2.6.24-rc7 2.6.25-rc1 2.6.26-rc4 all have same. it ws working fine before
May 28 12:03:12 <KotCzarny> try speedstep-centrino instead of acpi-cpufreq ?
May 28 12:04:29 <ssvb> teenel: run mplayer with -v option and post this log somewhere (probably even to garage mplayer tracker)
May 28 12:04:29 <hrw> speedstep-centrino fails to load
May 28 12:04:45 <hrw> KotCzarny: it is ICH4 with 855GM. 3.5 years old
May 28 12:04:50 <KotCzarny> i know
May 28 12:04:54 <KotCzarny> mine too
May 28 12:04:55 <KotCzarny> :)
May 28 12:05:20 <KotCzarny> well, 855PM
May 28 12:05:30 <teenel> ssvb: thank you
May 28 12:05:33 <KotCzarny> but ich4 too
May 28 12:05:49 <KotCzarny> hrw: tried looking for another acpi versions?
May 28 12:05:56 <hrw> 855GM+ICH4-M to be exact
May 28 12:06:08 <hrw> KotCzarny: other dsdt you mean?
May 28 12:06:13 <KotCzarny> yes
May 28 12:07:31 <hrw> did not looked for
May 28 12:07:34 <KotCzarny> http://acpi.sourceforge.net/dsdt/view.php?id=391
May 28 12:07:47 <hrw> also have to find a moment to update bios back to last ver
May 28 12:08:01 <KotCzarny> you should try looking into it
May 28 12:09:42 <hrw> id=760 is my laptop
May 28 12:09:44 <hrw> will test
May 28 12:11:04 <KotCzarny> but cpufreq detects all speeds
May 28 12:11:18 <hrw> sure - just stuck at 600-600
May 28 12:11:25 <KotCzarny> what happens on userspace ?
May 28 12:11:45 <hrw> same
May 28 12:12:28 <hrw> nevermind which governor - 600-600 is stuck
May 28 12:13:10 <hrw> next time I will take linux cd to test does laptop export battery/ac/fan/thermal etc before buy
May 28 12:13:14 <KotCzarny> hrm
May 28 12:13:32 <KotCzarny> well, ibm x3[0-2] doesn't have a problem
May 28 12:13:45 <KotCzarny> with x31 and x32 you can even undervolt it
May 28 12:13:56 <KotCzarny> (only way to reach 46C == fan off)
May 28 12:31:44 <hrw> KotCzarny: this laptop at 1.6GHz with heavy load was getting 80°C and over it
May 28 12:36:56 <Gatestone> How do I run ARM binaries in scratchbox? I compiled hello_world.c and running it says "SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set"
May 28 12:37:02 <Gatestone> What should I set there?
May 28 12:38:30 <Gatestone> Shoudl I use qemu....something to run the ARM binary?
May 28 12:39:18 <KotCzarny> hrw: mine did that with 1.8ghz and poor ventilation
May 28 12:39:20 <johnx> it should be set by default if your target is armel
May 28 12:39:42 <KotCzarny> and without undervolting
May 28 12:39:43 <KotCzarny> :)
May 28 12:40:03 <johnx> gah...neither of you have it as bad as my poor P4 laptop O_o
May 28 12:40:11 <KotCzarny> :)
May 28 12:40:13 <KotCzarny> yeah
May 28 12:40:21 <KotCzarny> pentium-m are nice
May 28 12:40:30 <johnx> 95f is not uncommon for me to see
May 28 12:40:39 <johnx> errr...95c rather :/
May 28 12:40:49 <KotCzarny> 95f would be good
May 28 12:40:50 <KotCzarny> ;)
May 28 12:40:54 <johnx> yeah really
May 28 12:41:01 <johnx> my A64 desktop is close to that :D
May 28 12:41:10 <hrw> johnx: p4 suxx always
May 28 12:41:35 * GAN800 fries eggs on johnx's laptop.
May 28 12:41:38 <Gatestone> If I look up target info, it sasy CPU transparency "none". So what should I do to get qemu-arm or something in place?
May 28 12:41:44 <johnx> hrw, no, really? :P
May 28 12:43:07 <johnx> I got that laptop for free because the last guy who had it hated it so much he never used it anymore
May 28 12:44:02 <hrw> ;))
May 28 12:46:19 <Gatestone> ok, I did not do sbox_ctl start as root....now it works
May 28 12:46:31 <Gatestone> I can emulate  ARM
May 28 12:49:02 <KotCzarny> heh, freeeestuuuuffff
May 28 12:49:03 <KotCzarny> :)
May 28 12:49:12 * KotCzarny got toshiba magnia sg20 for free
May 28 12:49:20 <KotCzarny> also because of hateness
May 28 12:51:10 <johnx> yeah...using my n800 is almost infinitely preferable to using that P4 toshiba
May 28 12:51:26 <johnx> it weighs 9 freakin' pounds!
May 28 12:51:42 <hrw> but still can be used as file/printer server at home
May 28 12:52:00 <johnx> hrw, if I could trust it
May 28 12:52:18 <johnx> I wouldn't let any files I care about anywhere near it
May 28 13:52:00 <andre___> hmm. looks i can attend LinuxTag too. nice.
May 28 14:07:36 * nomis will leave for berlin in about half an hour.
May 28 14:18:16 <GAN8001> OK, there's my UI spec rant for the day. . . . <_<
May 28 14:24:55 <Jaffa> GAN8001: And a marvellous rant it is. I especially like the mythical rabbit
May 28 14:25:19 <GAN8001> "Don't accept"
May 28 14:25:23 <GAN8001> Who is he kidding? <_<
May 28 14:25:39 <Jaffa> Indeed, somewhat scoff worthy.
May 28 14:26:57 <johnx> I like the idea of sitting in front of my computer "not accepting" your answers
May 28 14:27:04 <johnx> s/your/their/
May 28 14:27:04 <infobot> johnx meant: I like the idea of sitting in front of my computer "not accepting" their answers
May 28 14:27:06 <GAN8001> Getting into a "fix this" "I can't" "fix it anyway" "I can't" with an engineer isn't my idea of productive bug work.
May 28 14:27:24 <johnx> ...kind of like giving Nokia the silent treatment :D
May 28 14:27:51 <GAN8001> Hehe, johnx. <whiney three-year-old>NO! DO IT!</whiney three-year-old>
May 28 14:28:24 <johnx> Nokia, until you fix bug #3161 I won't talk to you. :P
May 28 14:29:09 <johnx> also, has anyone else seen high memory usage and eventual system slowdown involving browersd on diablo?
May 28 14:29:27 <johnx> *browserd
May 28 14:29:28 <GAN8001> Not particularly, but I haven't paid much attention.
May 28 14:29:30 <||cw> simply "i can't" isn't an acceptable answer... I hope you had a good reason behind it, like "i can't without rewriting 90% of the the backend"
May 28 14:29:57 <GAN8001> ||cw, the "I can't" answer is follow by "because the UI spec says . . ."
May 28 14:30:04 <qwerty12_N800> johnx, me.
May 28 14:30:28 <||cw> refile the bug as a UI spec problem
May 28 14:30:37 <qwerty12_N800> shit slows down the rest of the n800. browser is a step back from chinook''s.
May 28 14:30:45 <johnx> qwerty12_N800, can you reproduce it consistently?
May 28 14:30:59 <GAN8001> ||cw, that wasn't possible until two days ago.
May 28 14:31:00 <johnx> otherwise I'll bash on it tonight and see if I can...
May 28 14:31:24 <qwerty12_N800> just go on a heavy site and open another window :/
May 28 14:31:42 <johnx> ah...I can get it with one window and only browser open :/
May 28 14:32:44 <fysa> check your about:config settings
May 28 14:32:53 <qwerty12_N800> johnx, same here but it's  consistant like that :/
May 28 14:33:05 <GAN8001> Did we decide that bugzilla was a good place to request sources?
May 28 14:33:11 <johnx> fysa, my only local modifcations are minimum font size bumps
May 28 14:33:18 <qwerty12_N800> no mods here
May 28 14:33:42 <fysa> maybe the defaults are bad.
May 28 14:33:55 <qwerty12_N800> it's browserd that is bad
May 28 14:34:17 <fysa> are you using debian/xfce daily, johnx?
May 28 14:34:23 <johnx> fysa, nope.
May 28 14:34:29 <johnx> definitely not :)
May 28 14:34:45 <WorkingOnWise> good morning all
May 28 14:34:59 <johnx> I prefer hildon/matchbox . I did the xfce release for people who seemed interested in that sort of thing
May 28 14:35:06 <WorkingOnWise> johnx:  what stops you from using it daily?
May 28 14:35:14 <qwerty12_N800> anyone know anything else that is useless in initfs? need to  shove a strace binary in there.
May 28 14:35:39 <johnx> eh...usability, polish, available apps, power management,
May 28 14:36:11 <WorkingOnWise> wow....thats a show stopper list ... power management especially
May 28 14:36:19 <fysa> hildon/matchbox on debian, or maemo? :)
May 28 14:36:27 <GAN8001> qwerty12_N800, bme, you should delete that. :P
May 28 14:36:39 <qwerty12_N800> Nah! :p
May 28 14:36:45 <WorkingOnWise> guess I shouldnt waste my time looking there for my maemo alternative huh?
May 28 14:36:45 <fysa> still longing for webkit
May 28 14:37:06 <GAN8001> Somebody needs to put together a non-shit frontend for the one that's in Extras, fysa.
May 28 14:37:07 <johnx> fysa, either
May 28 14:37:27 <WorkingOnWise> no disresoect to you johnx.. thad didnt come out right at all
May 28 14:37:34 <johnx> WorkingOnWise, it's worth a try, but if you want a ready to go solution it's not ready yet
May 28 14:37:36 <WorkingOnWise> disrespect either
May 28 14:38:26 <johnx> that's ok. I didn't perceive it as disrespect
May 28 14:38:38 <johnx> I'll be the first to admit it's not ready for prime-time yet
May 28 14:38:50 <WorkingOnWise> johnx: do you know much about the ubuntu ports?
May 28 14:39:16 <johnx> WorkingOnWise, that it's 99% Debian, except without official support from the package maintainers?
May 28 14:39:27 <johnx> ;) or did you mean something else?
May 28 14:40:22 <GAN8001> OK, I just went for it.
May 28 14:40:24 <GAN8001> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3195
May 28 14:40:26 <WorkingOnWise> i read a blurb saying some conical devs were porting fiesty and gutsy to the N8x0 series.
May 28 14:40:39 <GAN8001> I'd really like to see this get somewhere: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=148283
May 28 14:40:45 <WorkingOnWise> can-whatever its spelled
May 28 14:41:16 <johnx> WorkingOnWise, I heard it was actually INDT guys who started it. but feisty/gutsy are old now. Debian is up-to-date
May 28 14:42:29 <johnx> I'm waiting for someone to give a good answer why they would choose ubuntu over debian on embedded ARM...
May 28 14:42:44 <fysa> the nvidia ARM releases look promising.
May 28 14:42:47 <WorkingOnWise> that was kind of my thought. and why port 2 versions? exciting to see another option, but wondering if it is a "because we can" kind of project....
May 28 14:42:54 <qwerty12_N800>  johnx
May 28 14:43:05 <johnx>  qwerty12_N800!
May 28 14:43:06 <qwerty12_N800> because i want to! :p
May 28 14:43:10 <WorkingOnWise> lol
May 28 14:43:22 <johnx> WorkingOnWise, I get that feeling too. :/
May 28 14:43:30 <GAN8001> Ha
May 28 14:43:32 <qwerty12_N800> sorry, i pressed tab and then enter by accident :/
May 28 14:43:50 <WorkingOnWise> it is looking like penguinbaits KDE  is the most reasonable alternative right now.
May 28 14:43:50 <GAN8001> Today should be "Do Whatever I Want To" day
May 28 14:44:16 <WorkingOnWise> it is GAN8001 isnt it?
May 28 14:45:20 <GAN8008> Because I want to.
May 28 14:45:23 <WorkingOnWise> is there a reasonable way to develop for maemo on Windows with Visual Studio?
May 28 14:45:26 <pupnik810> lcuk here?
May 28 14:47:26 <Navi> WorkingOnWise, :|
May 28 14:47:28 <WorkingOnWise> I ask because it is what I have, and I just cant cut to Linux till I get a more capable laptop.
May 28 14:47:45 <Navi> :|
May 28 14:47:50 <GAN8008> Ha
May 28 14:48:02 <||cw> WorkingOnWise: and then what tools would you use on linux?
May 28 14:48:07 <qwerty12_N800> er, linux runs better on crap hardware than windows
May 28 14:48:13 <Navi> ^^^
May 28 14:48:34 <WorkingOnWise> there ae a few apps I need dailr that only run in windows, so it means running xp or vista virtualixed pretty much all the time
May 28 14:48:46 <GAN8008> Navi and qwerty12_N800 would know better than anybody with their crap hardware. :P
May 28 14:49:03 <Navi> \o/
May 28 14:49:05 <WorkingOnWise> qwerty12_N800: it does, till you run a windows vm and break linux's knees with it :)
May 28 14:49:16 <qwerty12_N800> GAN8008, Says the person with a mac :p
May 28 14:49:28 <GAN8008> Ooooh BUUUUUURN
May 28 14:49:33 <qwerty12_N800> I feel for navi
May 28 14:49:39 <qwerty12_N800> though :p
May 28 14:49:45 <qwerty12_N800> 256mb ram...
May 28 14:50:00 <Navi> \o/
May 28 14:50:03 <GAN8008> He brought it on himself.
May 28 14:50:05 <WorkingOnWise> ||cw: I would imagine eclipse or KDevelop
May 28 14:50:07 <Navi> No need to feel for me
May 28 14:50:08 <lopz> hi
May 28 14:50:14 <johnx> eh...that's 4 times as much as one of my build boxes...
May 28 14:50:23 <||cw> there' a win32 version of eclipse isn't there?
May 28 14:50:31 <||cw> and you could always use vmware
May 28 14:50:31 <Navi> I don't use more than 20MB without X
May 28 14:50:33 <qwerty12_N800> it's java
May 28 14:51:06 <WorkingOnWise> ||cw: never bothered to look to be honest. I think the biger thing would be scratchbox wouldnt it?
May 28 14:51:33 <WorkingOnWise> in a Windows enviroment?
May 28 14:52:12 <||cw> I don't see the scratchbox vmware image using all that much ram
May 28 14:53:40 <WorkingOnWise> I'm missing something here I think. ||cw are you saying I could run scratchbox via vmware image on Windows?
May 28 14:53:53 <WorkingOnWise> or did I totally miss that flight?
May 28 14:53:53 <||cw> yes, there's a premade one
May 28 14:54:47 <WorkingOnWise> ahhh...now that simplifies things.
May 28 14:56:15 <||cw> I think this is the official page http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/
May 28 14:56:22 <WorkingOnWise> so barring any lack of competence on my part, I could use VS or Eclipse in Windows to develop for Maemo, using the vmware image to run the build environment. Right?
May 28 14:56:47 <johnx> yes...or just use eclipse inside the vmware image
May 28 14:56:49 <||cw> the vmware image include ecplise too
May 28 14:57:22 <WorkingOnWise> oh...that was slick of whoever did that!
May 28 14:57:35 <johnx> yup...it's a whole system ready to go
May 28 14:58:06 <WorkingOnWise> so I have this shiney new Visual Studio 2008 gifted by Microsoft and still no need for it!
May 28 14:58:15 <johnx> yup!
May 28 14:58:16 <WorkingOnWise> damn Open Source!
May 28 14:58:17 <johnx> woo!
May 28 14:58:17 <WorkingOnWise> lol
May 28 14:58:34 <johnx> give it as a christmas present maybe?
May 28 14:58:37 <qwerty12> I have 2003 somewhere gifted by RS...
May 28 14:58:41 <johnx> your grandpa might like it
May 28 14:59:02 <WorkingOnWise> went to the launch or Win Serv 2008 2 weeks ago. Git that and Vista Ultimate
May 28 14:59:06 <qwerty12> He could make a reminder program to clean the false teeth...
May 28 14:59:08 <qwerty12> :p
May 28 14:59:18 <WorkingOnWise> and a nifty soft side lunch bag
May 28 14:59:22 <WorkingOnWise> lol
May 28 15:00:08 <WorkingOnWise> see, at thos prices, I dont mind crap software so much.
May 28 15:00:28 <WorkingOnWise> I'm off to play with maemo. Thanks guys
May 28 15:00:36 <johnx> sure, have fun :D
May 28 15:09:54 <nomeata> hi. i’m trying to use maemo-mapper on os2007 hacker edition (n770) with a bluetooth gps dongle. maemo-mapper runs fine, displays maps and finds the device when I scan for it. But when I try to connect, it tries for a while and then displays an error "GPSD not found". do I need to have GPSD running even for a bluetooth dongle?
May 28 15:10:50 <qwerty12> yes
May 28 15:12:12 <nomeata> should maemo-mapper start it by itself, or can I help somehow?
May 28 15:12:22 * trickie is off to linuxtag! ciao!
May 28 15:12:47 <Navi> woo
May 28 15:12:57 <qwerty12> I'm not actually sure how it works on os2007. (Never used it :/). On OS2008, I have GPS control panel.
May 28 15:13:47 <nomeata> hmm. when I try to start rfcomm and  gpsd manually from the command line, it does not work ("illegal instruction")
May 28 15:14:25 <hrw> nomeata: run prefs in maemo-mapper and add gps as BT device
May 28 15:15:17 <nomeata> hrw: I tried that, it finds the device, but when I activate it it gives me the GPSD error
May 28 15:17:44 <nomeata> hrw: if I select bluetooth there, does this mean that maemo-mapper (tries to) set up gpsd itself, or that it talks to the dongle without gpsd?
May 28 15:19:05 <hrw> probably directly
May 28 15:19:15 <hrw> never used with bt gps
May 28 15:37:30 <hrw> I hope that someone at maemo part of LT will have laptop - mine is too slow to show n800 qemu maemo
May 28 15:38:29 <qwerty12> Who else has a config partition working with it?
May 28 15:38:37 <qwerty12> (OS2008 that is, not poky)
May 28 15:39:06 <hrw> I will take qemu binaries + maemo image with me
May 28 15:39:28 <hrw> will only need machine with working usb port to show it (linux 32bit/x86 capable)
May 28 15:39:40 <hrw> debian 'sid' or ubuntu 7.10+
May 28 15:41:27 <hrw> on my laptop boot of it would take >10 minutes
May 28 15:48:23 <GAN8001> hrw, it'd be really sad if there weren't a single usable laptop around at a conference like LinuxTag. :D
May 28 15:48:59 <hrw> ;)
May 28 15:49:14 <hrw> my d400 is fscking slow now
May 28 15:49:28 <hrw> 600MHz suxx
May 28 15:49:45 <johnx> your n810 is pretty close to that :)
May 28 15:49:51 <hrw> yep
May 28 15:50:25 <konttori> GAN8001: If you're at linuxtag, come to nokia booth tomorrow.
May 28 15:50:30 <konttori> I'm at there all day
May 28 15:50:45 <johnx> so, hrw, what are your thoughts on the "Open Pandora" linux handheld?
May 28 15:50:49 <GAN8001> Nah, I'm remaining in the States
May 28 15:50:55 <GAN8001> Tickets are expensive. :P
May 28 15:50:58 <konttori> ah
May 28 15:51:36 <hrw> johnx: first let them release it
May 28 15:51:42 <johnx> fair enough :)
May 28 15:51:50 <hrw> johnx: then we will talk. now it is prototype maybe
May 28 15:52:10 <hrw> johnx: look at beagleboard from TI guys - thats interesting device
May 28 15:52:26 <johnx> definitely, just saw that the other day
May 28 15:52:43 <hrw> and this one exists \
May 28 15:52:53 <hrw> and is fully supported by OpenEmbedded
May 28 15:53:05 <johnx> I don't think it will survive long in my pocket though :/
May 28 15:53:18 <GAN8001> Ha
May 28 15:53:33 <GAN8001> BeagleBoard looks cool as a home server of some sort, though.
May 28 15:53:47 <johnx> or even a mobile server
May 28 15:54:08 <johnx> or if you feel really geeky, a good start to a wearable computer
May 28 15:54:08 <GAN8001> Certainly be quieter than the 2001 Quicksilver tower I'm using now.
May 28 15:54:15 <qwerty12> Can anyone with a N8*0 with US wifi frequences run cat /dev/mtd1ro | grep wlan-tx-gen plz? Mine is reported as wlan-tx-gen2, I wonder if it is different on another N800.
May 28 15:54:52 <johnx> qwerty12, I see the same thing
May 28 15:55:01 <qwerty12> Ah, thanks
May 28 15:58:17 <GAN8001> Hehe: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jadon/2295700120/sizes/l/in/pool-705532@N22/
May 28 15:58:27 <hrw> have a nice evening and rest of week
May 28 15:58:37 <hrw> see you on linuxtag guys
May 28 15:58:53 <GAN8001> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jadon/2414674548/sizes/l/in/pool-705532@N22/
May 28 15:59:06 <johnx> qwerty12, I don't see many interesting strings :/
May 28 15:59:18 <johnx> ...in mtd1ro
May 28 15:59:50 <qwerty12> It's config partition where CAL is stored. After I can get a cold flasher cable, I plan to try and reflash my own :/
May 28 16:00:32 <johnx> GAN800, that is quite interesting once I figured out what was going on O_o
May 28 16:00:51 <johnx> is that the beagleboard?
May 28 16:01:10 <GAN8001> Yeah
May 28 16:01:14 <GAN8001> $149
May 28 16:01:18 * GAN8001 wants NOA
May 28 16:02:07 <unixSnob> qwerty12: I see wlan-tx-gen3
May 28 16:03:06 <qwerty12> unixSnob, mind running osso-product-info and saying what WLAN_CHANNEL is? thanks
May 28 16:03:35 <unixSnob> qwerty12: ha.. I was just messing with you.. I saw wlan-tx-gen2 too :)
May 28 16:03:46 <qwerty12> lol
May 28 16:03:57 <qwerty12> hehe, I thought you were serious :p
May 28 16:04:26 <unixSnob> i just wanted to see if you would get excited about seeing another version.. though I have no idea what this string is
May 28 16:10:35 <GAN8001> Mmm . . . this Beagle is hot.
May 28 16:11:57 <GAN8001> It's mildly disheartening that all the new OMAP3 devices I've seen have the same amount of NAND/RAM as the N8x0. . . .
May 28 16:12:26 <johnx> a little, but that seems to be par for the course in embedded ARM land
May 28 16:12:31 <pupnik810> keesj, huhu
May 28 16:12:34 <johnx> at least we're bumped to 128MB now
May 28 16:13:00 <GAN8001> Fortunately it doesn't seem OMAP dependent.
May 28 16:13:16 <GAN8001> "The Beagle uses the OMAP3 version ES2.1. It is in a .4mm pitch POP package. POP (Package on Package) is a technique where the memory, NAND and SDRAM, are mounted on top of the OMAP3. For this reason, when looking at the Beagle, you will not find an actual part labeled OMAP3."
May 28 16:13:45 <pupnik810> ti is showing beagleboard at ltag here
May 28 16:14:01 <GAN8001> "A 4 pin DIN connector is provided to access the S-Video output of the Beagle. This is a separate output from the OMAP processor and can contain different video output data from what is found on the DVI-D output."
May 28 16:14:02 <GAN8001> Nice.
May 28 16:14:12 <GAN8001> pupnik810, lotsa pics plz? :D
May 28 16:15:21 <johnx> man, it's almost like this whole linux thing is starting to catch on :D
May 28 16:15:36 <pupnik810> cam is chrgin
May 28 16:15:39 <pupnik810> i hope
May 28 16:15:55 <GAN8001> pupnik810, you there?
May 28 16:15:59 <pupnik810> lots of cute females actually
May 28 16:16:02 <GAN8001> Hehe
May 28 16:16:04 <pupnik810> yeah
May 28 16:16:35 <pupnik810> yeah  the bgl is tiiiny
May 28 16:18:18 <pupnik810> i will film the beagle demo 4 u
May 28 16:18:58 <GAN8001> pupnik810, thanks!
May 28 16:19:26 <johnx> yeah, thanks pupnik :D
May 28 16:19:27 <GAN8001> http://www.beagleboard.org/uploads/Beagle_HW_Reference_Manual_A_5.pdf
May 28 16:19:35 <GAN8001> The OMAP3 is rather disturbingly small
May 28 16:20:29 <GAN8001> Page 35 is nicely labelled.
May 28 16:22:35 <johnx> hmm...that would make a darn nice start to a wearable computer
May 28 16:26:13 <johnx> sony had some nice glasses to provide a heads-up display too
May 28 16:26:15 <GAN8001> The price is beyond perfect.
May 28 16:37:11 <qwerty12> Man, qemu does take a crapload of time to compile :/
May 28 16:37:22 <GAN8001> You and your shit hardware. :P
May 28 16:37:25 <qwerty12> And as soon as I said that, it finished 8-)
May 28 16:37:59 <qwerty12> Nah, 2.8GHz 2 core and 2gb ram baby
May 28 16:38:44 <qwerty12> Although my old computer was too chungg, 700mhz and 128mb ram... ripped it apart and used it to softmod the xbox and binned the old computer...
May 28 16:39:20 * johnx enjoys using his a shell account on his friend's machine for compiling 8)
May 28 16:40:26 <qwerty12> Aww, johnx's computer is too crap for the job :p
May 28 16:40:53 <johnx> it works fine, but this lets me do 2 compiles at once
May 28 16:41:03 <johnx> or one compile without slowing down my computer :)
May 28 16:41:27 <johnx> anyways, a quad core phenom chews through compile way quicker than your desktop or mine :P
May 28 16:41:34 <qwerty12> of course :p
May 28 16:42:37 <johnx> heh...except when it hard-locks while compiling glibc and it's a little far away to run over and reboot -_-
May 28 16:45:08 <pupnik810> odd im the only guy at ltag with xchat
May 28 16:45:20 <qwerty12> wtf
May 28 16:45:22 <qwerty12> xchat pwns
May 28 16:45:53 <pupnik810> wheres keesj
May 28 16:46:20 <GAN800> Go and beat the up with the .deb, pupnik. :D
May 28 16:46:36 <pupnik810> ??
May 28 16:46:43 <GAN800> xchat
May 28 16:48:20 <woojjob> is it possible to make php server on n8x0
May 28 16:48:35 <qwerty12> Bollox. I *thought* I was compiling qemu with n800 emulation but it seems like the binary isn't there.
May 28 16:48:42 <johnx> woojjob, I think so
May 28 16:48:54 <pupnik810> well if lcuk or keesj show up here im in room 402
May 28 16:49:00 <johnx> qwerty12, shouldn't it just be part of qemu-system-arm?
May 28 16:49:03 <woojjob> it.s good
May 28 16:49:38 <qwerty12> johnx, Dunno, I'm compiling qemu from cvs with hrw's patch. Just gonna have to look around :/
May 28 16:50:49 <johnx> right, so it should make a binary called qemu-system-arm that can emulate an n800...
May 28 16:56:47 <GAN8001> Ha: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-May/033508.html
May 28 16:56:50 <qwerty12> That's great: "svn: URL 'http://svn.o-hand.com/repos/poky/trunk/meta/packages/qemu/qemu-0.9.1%2Bcvs20080307' doesn't exist". Until: http://svn.o-hand.com/view/poky/trunk/meta/packages/qemu/qemu-0.9.1%2Bcvs20080307/?rev=4233#dirlist
May 28 16:58:36 <Anunakin> hi all!
May 28 16:58:43 <GAN8001> Howdy
May 28 16:59:32 <Anunakin> Any here using Debian? on N810?
May 28 16:59:45 * qwerty12 uses Debian on N800
May 28 16:59:51 <johnx> Anunakin, yup :)
May 28 17:01:03 <johnx> sorry, didn't read that completely. I'm using it on an n800
May 28 17:01:25 <Anunakin> hum
May 28 17:03:25 <johnx> have a question?
May 28 17:07:21 <Anunakin> Johnx...
May 28 17:07:23 <Anunakin> yes
May 28 17:07:37 <Anunakin> I talking with qwerty12
May 28 17:07:56 * qwerty12 is clueless I have to add
May 28 17:07:59 <Anunakin> about patch X, to have middle and left mouse clicks
May 28 17:08:41 <johnx> so you want to rebuild xomap with your middle/right click patch?
May 28 17:09:14 <Anunakin> but ... we have Xomap sources?
May 28 17:09:21 <johnx> yup
May 28 17:09:48 <Anunakin> The patchs files for X ... we can found on pdaXrom project...
May 28 17:10:37 <Anunakin> There are more... like a handwriter tool for X
May 28 17:11:32 <Anunakin> A light plugin to use with kernel 2.6... this uses python ...
May 28 17:11:46 <johnx> xomap sources are here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0.1/free/x/xorg-server/
May 28 17:12:27 <Anunakin> This plugin controls backlight
May 28 17:13:14 <Anunakin> We can patch it for write to /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level
May 28 17:13:37 <johnx> there's also one for angstrom written in C
May 28 17:14:42 <johnx> if you wanted to work on some that stuff, that would be really great
May 28 17:17:40 <Anunakin> I think... better then work on plugins from Angstron
May 28 17:32:59 <woojjob> good daybreak
May 28 17:36:10 <RST38h> all right
May 28 17:44:19 * johnx watches python-hildon compile on debian/armel
May 28 17:44:40 <Navi> woo
May 28 17:45:07 <Navi> got hildonness working?
May 28 17:45:20 <johnx> libhildon is in debian proper
May 28 17:45:27 <Navi> mmk
May 28 17:45:32 <johnx> tinymail and modest are being packaged by someone else
May 28 17:45:50 <Navi> so you have modest running?
May 28 17:45:51 <johnx> so I decided to take a swing at repackaging python-hildon and seeing how many apps will "just work"
May 28 17:46:00 <johnx> not yet
May 28 17:46:06 <Navi> mmk
May 28 17:46:15 <johnx> waiting on someone else to finish with libtinymail packaing
May 28 17:46:24 <Navi> lol
May 28 17:47:38 <johnx> actually, it should be pretty easy to do a quick/dirty job...but more work to bring it up to debian standards
May 28 17:47:53 <summatusmentis> woot! feeds are up!
May 28 17:47:54 <ultralord> Hola. En su día recibi el cupon de descuento para comprar el N810. Donde lo puedo solicitar de nuevo? Gracias.
May 28 17:48:06 <ultralord> Lo perdi
May 28 17:48:12 <Navi> feeds for what?
May 28 17:48:19 <summatusmentis> Navi: the repos
May 28 17:48:27 <Navi> ?
May 28 17:48:50 <summatusmentis> ultralord: hablas ingles? nosotros preferemos hablar en ingles
May 28 17:49:03 <summatusmentis> Navi: for whateve reason, I couldn't download any packages last night
May 28 17:49:12 <Navi> ah
May 28 17:49:48 <GAN8001> Navi, #3191
May 28 17:49:57 <GAN8001> Er, #3194, rather
May 28 17:51:43 <ultralord> Hello, a time ago I received a coupon of discount. In order to buy the N810. There am it lost. Where I can ask for it again? Thanks.
May 28 17:51:58 <GAN8001> ultralord, email Nokia support.
May 28 17:52:08 <GAN8001> Expires in June, as far as I know.
May 28 17:52:10 <GAN8001> So act fast.
May 28 17:53:19 * gnuSnob wonders what the n810 promo was
May 28 17:53:34 <GAN8001> gnuSnob, it wasn't a "promo", really
May 28 17:53:46 <GAN8001> It's the discount program for developers and community folks.
May 28 17:53:52 <gnuSnob> ah
May 28 17:53:57 <GAN8001> http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/500_fortunate_applicants.html
May 28 17:57:13 <Navi_> Ugh
May 28 17:58:40 <ultralord> Thanks, already I have sent a request to the Support of Nokia. To see if it responds to me.
May 28 17:59:56 <ultralord> Like the code of discount, as it is the price of the N810?
May 28 18:01:00 <RST38h> Hehe: http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/05/28/eclipse_e4_old_java/
May 28 18:01:33 <GAN8001> ultralord, (assuming I read the question correctly) the N810 should go for about $160 USD with the discount code.
May 28 18:01:44 <RST38h> Anybody knows why a brand new N810 would refuse to power up after flashing it with the latest firmware?
May 28 18:02:36 <GAN8001> Low battery?
May 28 18:03:09 <Navi> No battery?
May 28 18:03:31 <GAN8001> Somebody stole the insides? :P
May 28 18:03:56 <johnx> that's not an n810, it's actually a dead badger?
May 28 18:04:45 <GAN8001> Put your glasses on, RST38h. :P
May 28 18:13:36 <RST38h> No, seems ok otherwise
May 28 18:13:51 <RST38h> Turns on every now and then, seemingly at random
May 28 18:14:05 <RST38h> (but still after pressing the power key of course :))
May 28 18:23:21 <kimrhh> does anyone have a simple Makefile for making a C app to the ARMEL target?
May 28 18:24:02 <johnx> kimrhh, you want to cross compile? or compile natively on am arm machine?
May 28 18:24:28 <kimrhh> johnx: cross, it's for the n810
May 28 18:24:30 <kimrhh> :)
May 28 18:24:53 <kimrhh> and I'm no autotools expert myself :)
May 28 18:24:58 <johnx> so you're not using scratchbox?
May 28 18:26:01 <kimrhh> johnx: well yes, but reading through the docs I can't find an example Makefile, guess I could grap one from one of the .deb packages
May 28 18:26:22 <kimrhh> since this is only 1 .c file
May 28 18:26:43 <johnx> if you're in scratchbox you can just act as if you're compiling natively and it should "just work" (tm)
May 28 18:26:54 <kimrhh> and not something that should be installed on other n810s I actually just the the right gcc command
May 28 18:27:00 <kimrhh> johnx: aha
May 28 18:27:05 <kimrhh> fancy :)
May 28 18:27:09 <kimrhh> let me try that
May 28 18:30:40 <Navi> johnx, illegal use of trademarks
May 28 18:30:49 * Navi arrests johnx
May 28 18:30:52 <johnx> heh
May 28 18:31:04 <johnx> to quote slashdot tags goodluckwiththat
May 28 18:31:11 <Navi> :D
May 28 18:31:44 <Navi> obconf takes up a huge amount of ram caching everything :
May 28 18:31:46 <Navi> :|
May 28 18:31:54 <johnx> though, to be honest, I assumed that comment in red in my IRC window was going to say "illegal instruction"
May 28 18:32:15 <johnx> I actually had to reread it to figure out what was going on
May 28 18:33:08 <Gatestone> Greeting from Vancouver, we are trying install Maemo here in the class...
May 28 18:33:53 <johnx> hi
May 28 18:37:17 <GAN8001> Hi, Vancouver. :P
May 28 18:37:31 <Navi> troll
May 28 18:39:26 <ReKlipz> A question: I've enabled R&D Mode on my n810. without installing ssh, how can I access the root account, and what is the default password?
May 28 18:39:27 <Rimdar_Klall> Please help me, I just accidentally revealed my password
May 28 18:39:30 <Rimdar_Klall> how do I change it!
May 28 18:39:48 <qwerty12_N800> ReKlipz, sudo gainroot
May 28 18:40:09 <johnx> ReKlipz, yup, no root password is set by default
May 28 18:40:10 <qwerty12_N800> no default password if you don't have ssh
May 28 18:40:23 <ReKlipz> so, it's just "enter"?
May 28 18:40:31 <Navi> ReKlipz, on IRC?
May 28 18:40:34 <Navi> er
May 28 18:40:37 <Navi> Rimdar_Klall, on IRC?
May 28 18:40:44 <johnx> ReKlipz, sudo gainroot<enter>
May 28 18:40:57 <johnx> Rimdar_Klall, run passwd
May 28 18:41:31 <Navi> johnx, running passwd doesn't help if it's for IRC :P
May 28 18:42:16 <johnx> Navi, since this is #maemo I figured it was tablet related. :shrugs:
May 28 18:43:22 <ReKlipz> is there anyway to connect to a network via usb instead of wlan? the wlan doesnt seem to be very good with my n810...
May 28 18:43:55 <johnx> ReKlipz, yup. It's called usbnet.
May 28 18:45:21 <GAN8001> ReKlipz, your router may not like the wifi powersaving
May 28 18:45:27 <GAN8001> You could try turning it off.
May 28 18:46:00 <ReKlipz> the WLAN idle time?
May 28 18:46:05 <ReKlipz> it is set to unlimited
May 28 18:46:13 <johnx> ReKlipz, nope, in advanced
May 28 18:47:01 <ReKlipz> advanced is where?
May 28 18:47:36 <ReKlipz> ah, found it
May 28 18:47:37 <johnx> control panel -> connectivity -> connections -> select your ap -> edit -> next, next, next, advanced
May 28 18:47:38 <johnx> IIRC
May 28 18:47:59 <ReKlipz> yeah, it's specific to AP
May 28 18:48:32 <johnx> it's a well kept secret O_o
May 28 18:49:46 <ReKlipz> i think it's just crappy signal strength, we're in the process of redoing the whole network, wired and all. Is there support for 802.1x authentication (specifically RADIUS)
May 28 18:49:56 <Navi> dun steel mah seeckrehts
May 28 18:51:10 <GAN8001> ReKlipz, it pretends it's specific, but it's actually a global setting
May 28 18:51:29 <GAN8001> There's a bug somewhere. . . .
May 28 18:51:39 <johnx> GAN800, it's part of the UI spec :D
May 28 18:51:49 <Navi> yay UI spec
May 28 18:52:04 <johnx> actually joking this time...though I wouldn't be surprised
May 28 18:52:14 * GAN8001 blows his top.
May 28 18:52:38 * GAN8001 is waiting for Quim to get out of whatever meeting he's in so I can jump down his throat again. ;)
May 28 18:52:51 <johnx> and dance upon his liver?
May 28 18:53:12 <GAN8001> Actually, johnx, joking you may be, but I believe it actually is a UI spec issue. <_<
May 28 18:53:45 <RST38h> KILL KILL
May 28 18:54:24 <Navi> PHOENIX DOWN PHOENIX DOWN
May 28 18:54:37 <ReKlipz> what happened to phoenix?
May 28 18:55:09 <GAN8001> It landed. :P
May 28 18:55:21 <ReKlipz> so, it's not "down"
May 28 18:55:26 <ReKlipz> it's been landed for like 2 days
May 28 18:55:27 <GAN8001> Yes it is.
May 28 18:55:31 <johnx> well it's not up
May 28 18:55:47 <ReKlipz> they've gotten pictures back from it...
May 28 18:55:50 <GAN8001> Landing is frequently referred to as being "down". :P
May 28 18:55:58 <johnx> in fact I'm pretty sure it's going to have trouble even making orbit, let alone escape velocity...
May 28 18:56:02 <Navi> O_o
May 28 18:56:09 <GAN8001> A pilot might say, "We're down"
May 28 18:56:09 <ReKlipz> yeah, i guess, but it landed over 48 hours ago...
May 28 18:56:22 <johnx> and hasn't floated away yet!
May 28 18:56:26 <GAN8001> Yeah, Navi's just being trollish and I'm just making a joke. :P
May 28 18:56:30 <ReKlipz> :P
May 28 18:56:35 <Navi> :P
May 28 18:56:39 <ReKlipz> i thought it broked
May 28 18:56:48 <Navi> I'm totally not trolling
May 28 18:56:56 <GAN8001> Don't lie
May 28 18:57:08 * Navi lies
May 28 18:57:24 <Navi> I lied about lying
May 28 18:58:33 <ReKlipz> the statement, "I'm a liar" is true no matter what.
May 28 18:59:53 <johnx> yay...for random packaging of maemo apps! woo!
May 28 19:00:03 <Navi> Woo!
May 28 19:00:06 <Navi> Sup?
May 28 19:00:28 <johnx> a script called "makedeb" instead of control, rules, changelog
May 28 19:01:24 <qwerty12_N800> Anyone know where the patch to run the N800's Cpu at 400 when dsp is enabled or running at 133?
May 28 19:01:59 * Navi shrugs
May 28 19:02:02 <GAN8001> johnx, you going to join pkg-maemo?
May 28 19:02:05 <GAN8001> They seem a little dead.
May 28 19:02:20 <GAN8001> qwerty12_N800, check fanoush's site?
May 28 19:02:30 <johnx> GAN8001, I poked at them. They're working on tinymail so I decided to give python-hildon a try
May 28 19:02:40 <qwerty12_N800> GAN800, Thanks, checking now
May 28 19:03:33 <ReKlipz> so, if I remove hildon, I will still have the hardware drivers / api, right?
May 28 19:04:00 <n800m> http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6555/1210300064121rv8.jpg
May 28 19:04:13 <qwerty12_N800> No, can't see the patch there. I think it's included in his kernel, will take a look
May 28 19:04:18 <johnx> ReKlipz, yes, but all your GUI programs will be broken
May 28 19:04:29 <GAN8001> Throw rocks at fanoush until he gives up his secrets, then.
May 28 19:04:48 <ReKlipz> johnx: but I'll still have the GTK, no?
May 28 19:04:50 <kimrhh> hmm, so where are the folder which the Application Manager can see actually located in the fs hierachy?
May 28 19:05:04 <GAN8001> "folder"?
May 28 19:05:10 <ReKlipz> I just want to remove the whole "window manager/navigation" piece, and replace it with my own single app.
May 28 19:05:17 <kimrhh> GAN8001: directories then :)
May 28 19:05:27 <johnx> ReKlipz, aaah, ok
May 28 19:05:32 <johnx> the window manager is matchbox
May 28 19:05:32 <GAN8001> The question still isn't entirely meaningful, kimrhh. :P
May 28 19:05:39 <kimrhh> Documents, Audio Clips, Images etc
May 28 19:05:42 <johnx> and the side panels are "hildon desktop"
May 28 19:05:55 <GAN8001> kimrhh, Application manager?
May 28 19:05:55 <johnx> hildon is also the name of the GUI lib
May 28 19:06:06 <kimrhh> GAN8001: well, they are not in /home/user at least :)
May 28 19:06:17 * GAN8001 is confused.
May 28 19:06:26 <kimrhh> GAN8001: yees, you know, the one that comes with the OS2008 :)
May 28 19:06:30 <GAN8001> Documents, Audio Clips, and Images have nothing to do with the Application manager.
May 28 19:06:35 <GAN8001> You mean File manager?
May 28 19:06:46 <kimrhh> GAN8001: it's possible to choose, "install from file"
May 28 19:06:49 <GAN8001> If so, it's /home/user/MyDocs/.documents etc
May 28 19:06:49 <kimrhh> nope
May 28 19:06:55 <johnx> kimrhh, the folders app manager installs to? or where it looks for files?
May 28 19:07:09 <johnx> where it looks for files: below /home/user/MyDocs
May 28 19:07:16 <kimrhh> johnx: looks, think the . prefix is the answer :)
May 28 19:07:18 <johnx> and also on sd cards /media/mmc1 /media/mmc2
May 28 19:07:18 <kimrhh> thanks
May 28 19:07:42 <GAN8001> Application manager was unrelated. :P
May 28 19:07:51 <kimrhh> i just scp'ed the .deb og bluez-utils over, thought it was easier
May 28 19:08:06 <GAN8001> kimrhh, just dpkg -i it over ssh
May 28 19:08:09 <johnx> kimrhh, just mv it to MyDocs
May 28 19:08:39 <kimrhh> johnx: it is in MyDocs, that doesn't seem to be a dir visible to app manager
May 28 19:08:46 <kimrhh> GAN8001: ah, much nicer
May 28 19:08:49 <lopz> mm... gobject.GError: no element "multimpartdemux" any ideas ?
May 28 19:08:52 <johnx> kimrhh, it is
May 28 19:09:03 <lopz> multipartdemux*
May 28 19:09:44 <kimrhh> johnx: oh it is, just me who fails it :) but a little non-logic that it's called Nokia N810 :)
May 28 19:10:28 <johnx> yeah, it's a little annoying that Nokia couldn't just let us poke around in /home/user but had to move things one level down instead
May 28 19:10:48 <kimrhh> indeed
May 28 19:11:03 <kimrhh> not sure I get the whole "you cannot sudo" thing
May 28 19:11:09 <GAN8001> It's "user friendly" johnx. :P
May 28 19:11:43 <kimrhh> but i guess, switching to R&D mode actually is like saying "ok, I know that I can harm my device now" :)
May 28 19:11:51 <johnx> basically
May 28 19:11:57 <GAN8001> Better off just installing easyroot
May 28 19:12:00 <johnx> or just install easyroot from nitapps.com
May 28 19:12:09 <GAN8001> R&D mode has some other consequences.
May 28 19:12:45 * qwerty12_N800 uses tablet in rd mode because i keep forgetting to turn it off :p
May 28 19:14:19 <kimrhh> GAN8001: i'll remember that, only found the guides about replacing openssh with dropbear, and thought it was just easier to drop into R&D
May 28 19:16:26 <GAN8001> I'm really digging Benson's backpack server idea.
May 28 19:17:02 <johnx> GAN8001, on ITT?
May 28 19:17:31 <GAN8001> The BeagleBoard thread
May 28 19:17:38 <GAN8001> Dump a beagle in a backpack
May 28 19:17:45 <johnx> yeah...that's what I thought at first too
May 28 19:17:55 <GAN8001> put a stack of batteries in there, GPS, WAP, WWAN, NAS
May 28 19:17:58 <johnx> with a big 9 cell laptop battery and a cellphone uplink
May 28 19:18:08 <johnx> bluetooth for a2dp too
May 28 19:18:14 <GAN8001> Some good antennas so you get decent range.
May 28 19:18:30 <qwerty12_N800> erm, does a dev_dbg function mean more  dmesg output?
May 28 19:18:33 <johnx> I was actually thinking of a gumstix for that kind of project
May 28 19:18:43 <GAN8001> I doubt if I'd get much use out of something like that as it stands, but still.
May 28 19:18:43 <johnx> but beagleboard would work too
May 28 19:18:55 <GAN8001> Be a fun project
May 28 19:19:12 <johnx> and a beagleboard does svideo out too :D
May 28 19:19:21 <GAN8001> Yeah
May 28 19:19:34 <johnx> nice to take over to a friend's house and plug into the TV
May 28 19:19:41 <GAN8001> I wonder if they've got the PowerVR or IVA2 working on that thing.
May 28 19:20:01 * qwerty12_N800 likes the way maemo is running on the beagleboards :)
May 28 19:20:02 <johnx> actually...if it's pandora compatible it might make a neat linux-based console :D
May 28 19:20:54 <GAN8001> Fun fun fun
May 28 19:21:17 <GAN8001> I like it as a invisible desktop, too.
May 28 19:21:30 <johnx> vesa mount to the back of an LCD?
May 28 19:22:00 <GAN8001> Something like that
May 28 19:22:11 <johnx> heh
May 28 19:22:28 <johnx> maybe you could find someplace *inside* the LCD bezel to stick it
May 28 19:22:34 <johnx> or in the base of the stand
May 28 19:22:38 <GAN8001> I wonder if anybody sells a 5-8" LCD I could attach to it easily
May 28 19:22:44 <johnx> sure
May 28 19:22:48 <johnx> look for carpc stuff
May 28 19:22:55 <GAN8001> Crappy and lowres
May 28 19:23:02 <johnx> not necessarily
May 28 19:23:03 <GAN8001> I'm thinking touch, too.
May 28 19:23:16 <GAN8001> Build myself a wooden tablet
May 28 19:24:44 <kulve> afaik, beagle doesn't have SGX nor IVA in use, at least not yet
May 28 19:25:09 <GAN8001> So I figured
May 28 19:25:14 <GAN8001> The future holds hope, though
May 28 19:26:15 <johnx> that's the same omap as the pandora though, right?
May 28 19:26:24 <GAN8001> Think so
May 28 19:26:40 <GAN8001> Effectively the same as the N900 is likely to have, too.
May 28 19:26:52 * GAN8001 wonders how easily drivers/libraries can be shared.
May 28 19:27:03 <johnx> and the pandora will *definitely* have a working powervr driver
May 28 19:27:44 <summatusmentis> wait, n900? I hope that's not coming soon...
May 28 19:28:33 <johnx> summatusmentis, it's a rumor only
May 28 19:28:36 <GAN8001> summatusmentis, earliest'll be late Q3
May 28 19:28:48 <GAN8001> But, like johnx says, there's absolutely nothing concrete yet
May 28 19:28:49 <johnx> if I had to bet, I'd say Q4 2008 or Q1 2009
May 28 19:28:58 * GAN8001 really hopes it's this year
May 28 19:29:11 <GAN8001> 2009 will put them way behind the curve. :\
May 28 19:29:36 <summatusmentis> I just bought a n810! :-/
May 28 19:29:43 <summatusmentis> I hate how fast tech turns over
May 28 19:29:52 <Anunakin> yes
May 28 19:30:05 <Anunakin> I just bought a N810 too...
May 28 19:30:27 <GAN8001> Get over it.
May 28 19:30:32 <GAN8001> Technology moves
May 28 19:30:41 <GAN8001> It doesn't invalidate the device you have in your hands right now
May 28 19:31:00 <GAN8001> Me, personally, I've had this tablet since January 2007 . . . I'm ready for an upgrade.
May 28 19:32:00 <Anunakin> hehe
May 28 19:32:17 <Anunakin> Jan 2007... I had a Zaurus SL 3100
May 28 19:32:26 <kkrusty> I bought an n800 a few weeks ago :(
May 28 19:33:35 <kkrusty> cost me 149 pounds
May 28 19:33:37 <johnx> the n8x0 will have a *long* road ahead as a hackable linux handheld
May 28 19:33:43 <kkrusty> is that cheap?
May 28 19:33:49 <kkrusty> I think it is
May 28 19:33:54 <GAN8001> Pounds of what? :P
May 28 19:33:57 <GAN8001> Pig fat?
May 28 19:34:02 <johnx> kkrusty, probably for the UK
May 28 19:34:04 <kkrusty> British pounds
May 28 19:34:09 <GAN8001> ;)
May 28 19:34:13 <kkrusty> :)
May 28 19:34:19 <johnx> I think it was going for <$200 in the US a bit ago
May 28 19:34:55 <kkrusty> here they have VAT which is supposed to be about 17% of everything
May 28 19:36:21 <GAN8001> Europe is so awesomely socialist
May 28 19:36:28 <GAN8001> I don't know how anybody puts up with it.
May 28 19:36:36 <johnx> GAN8001, actually a little projector with integrated power supply and beagleboard would be pretty awesome in my book :D
May 28 19:36:44 <GAN8001> Yeah
May 28 19:36:50 <johnx> GAN8001, health care?
May 28 19:36:54 <GAN8001> Stick it onto a baseball cap.
May 28 19:36:57 <GAN8001> Shitty health care?
May 28 19:37:00 <GAN8001> Yeah, sounds good. ;)
May 28 19:37:09 <GAN8001> So the projector is projecting wherever you look.
May 28 19:37:25 <johnx> blinding everyone you talk to!
May 28 19:37:31 <GAN8001> Woo
May 28 19:37:41 <GAN8001> Those new micro projectors probably wouldn't cut it
May 28 19:37:48 <GAN8001> You need to get an industrial sized one
May 28 19:37:51 <GAN8001> Work those neck muscles.
May 28 19:38:11 <GAN8001> You'll look like Barry Bonds in no time at all!
May 28 19:39:01 <johnx> I was really enjoying not having inherited my family's hereditary back problems...but I guess it wasn't meant to be
May 28 19:39:10 <GAN8001> I want some retinal projectors.
May 28 19:39:39 <johnx> ah, did you see the sony prototype things on gizmodo the other day?
May 28 19:39:52 <GAN8001> Yeah, cool shit isn't it?
May 28 19:40:04 <johnx> yeah
May 28 19:40:15 <GAN8001> Mount a projector in my glasses.
May 28 19:40:19 <johnx> I've been following the whole wearable computer thing for 10+ years now
May 28 19:40:25 <johnx> finally starting to get close I think :D
May 28 19:40:43 <ReKlipz> johnx: best way to remove the hildon desktop?
May 28 19:40:57 <johnx> ReKlipz, easy: don't.
May 28 19:41:00 <GAN8001> apt-get nuke hildon-desktop
May 28 19:41:11 <johnx> just don't run it
May 28 19:41:19 <ReKlipz> that'll work too, :P
May 28 19:41:23 <Anunakin> haha
May 28 19:41:37 <ReKlipz> how can i do that?
May 28 19:41:48 <johnx> first, are you booting from SD?
May 28 19:41:52 <ReKlipz> no
May 28 19:41:56 <ReKlipz> i can be though
May 28 19:41:57 <Anunakin> Hey johnx, is any way to close Xomap... and dont crash ?
May 28 19:42:00 <johnx> are you backed up?
May 28 19:42:05 <ReKlipz> nothing to back up
May 28 19:42:07 <ReKlipz> so, yes
May 28 19:42:25 <johnx> Anunakin, on debian? just kill it
May 28 19:42:34 <Anunakin> hum!
May 28 19:42:36 <Anunakin> ok
May 28 19:42:37 <johnx> or /etc/init.d/x-server stop
May 28 19:42:48 <johnx> and that script will kill it :)
May 28 19:43:13 <johnx> ReKlipz, you're very likely to need to reflash soon when you start messing around with boot order stuff
May 28 19:43:41 <johnx> I would do this from SD so you can fall back to booting from flash to fix your mistakes
May 28 19:43:43 <ReKlipz> i've already reflashed once, so no worries
May 28 19:44:41 <Anunakin> I have 3 partitions on my microSD, one with files(vfat), debian and other with maemo+kde
May 28 19:45:02 <ReKlipz> the SD slot, an SDHC slot?
May 28 19:45:13 <Anunakin> but... my problem ... now is run gnuplot under maxima
May 28 19:46:18 <summatusmentis> wait, kde can be installed on top of maemo? I thought it needed to be debian?
May 28 19:46:28 <ReKlipz> kde is a desktop environment
May 28 19:46:35 <ReKlipz> debian is the linux distro
May 28 19:46:45 <ReKlipz> hildon is a version of gnome
May 28 19:46:50 <ReKlipz> sort of...
May 28 19:46:54 <GAN8001> summatusmentis, look at Penguinbait's deb install
May 28 19:47:03 <GAN8001> Extension, really, ReKlipz.
May 28 19:47:05 <summatusmentis> yeah, but I assumed it needed the debian sub system to run on top of
May 28 19:47:14 <ReKlipz> maemo is debian...
May 28 19:47:36 <summatusmentis> GAN8001 I've seen it, I assumed it was for pure debian
May 28 19:47:39 <johnx> maemo is close enough to debian that penguinbait was able to get KDE working with quite a bit of effort
May 28 19:48:07 <ReKlipz> can i put straight debian on the n810?
May 28 19:48:11 <johnx> yes
May 28 19:48:18 <ReKlipz> any disadvantages?
May 28 19:48:25 <johnx> power management doesn't work as well
May 28 19:48:47 <GAN8001> Interface isn't well set up for the device
May 28 19:48:48 <johnx> a little more CLI work to manage wlan
May 28 19:48:51 <GAN8001> Hardware keys, etc.
May 28 19:49:09 <johnx> GAN8001, hardware keys work fine in debian now
May 28 19:49:21 <GAN8001> Not as smoothly as OS2008. :P
May 28 19:49:30 <johnx> ReKlipz, also, hildon-desktop is actually a nice system
May 28 19:49:41 <GAN8001> and text input is a royal pain without an N810.
May 28 19:50:23 <ReKlipz> johnx, I don't need the window manager
May 28 19:50:45 <GAN8001> ReKlipz, I really think you're wasting effort trying to dump all the system stuff
May 28 19:50:50 <GAN8001> Just keep it and build your application.
May 28 19:50:51 <johnx> ReKlipz, what do you plan to replace it with?
May 28 19:51:00 <ReKlipz> my own app
May 28 19:51:09 <johnx> just run your app fullscreen
May 28 19:51:20 <GAN8001> Saves you the trouble of doing complicated setup with each new unit
May 28 19:51:25 <ReKlipz> i guess so..
May 28 19:51:27 <GAN8001> just leave it as-is and install the application
May 28 19:51:43 <ReKlipz> i could just as easilly flash each one with the new binary though... and that'd be that
May 28 19:52:24 <johnx> matchbox is pretty lightweight
May 28 19:52:39 <GAN8001> But your wasting time now trying to dump things that really don't need to be dumped.
May 28 19:52:41 <johnx> ReKlipz, I would look at how penguinbait handles it with KDE
May 28 19:52:46 <ReKlipz> ... ok, you've convinced me
May 28 19:53:14 <johnx> GAN8001, it will save some memory if his app is big enough to have issues running out of memory
May 28 19:53:50 <ReKlipz> I just don't see the need for running matchbox and the like if it's never gonna be touched
May 28 19:54:11 <johnx> it all comes down to effort/benefit ratio
May 28 19:54:29 <GAN8001> Out of interest, how's the code going to be licensed, ReKlipz?
May 28 19:54:33 <johnx> get your app running first, then see if you need to put in the effort to make matchbox not run
May 28 19:55:04 <ReKlipz> GAN8001, honestly, not sure
May 28 19:55:26 <ReKlipz> we've not really thought about it at all...
May 28 19:55:28 <johnx> I've been in a similar situation making thin clients into linux web kiosks
May 28 19:55:38 <johnx> optimize last: you'll be much happier
May 28 19:55:47 <ReKlipz> sounds like a plan
May 28 19:55:57 <ReKlipz> ok, how to get usbnet working...
May 28 19:56:17 <johnx> insmod g_ether.ko && ifup usb0
May 28 19:56:36 <ReKlipz> oh, and is it just me, or is the usb cable a proprietary connector?
May 28 19:56:44 <johnx> ReKlipz, it's not
May 28 19:56:51 <ReKlipz> it looks smaller...
May 28 19:56:52 <johnx> also, re: usbnet, read here: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howtosetupusbnetworkingdebian/
May 28 19:56:54 <LinuxCode> mini-usb
May 28 19:56:54 <GAN8001> It's new
May 28 19:56:57 <GAN8001> MicroUSB
May 28 19:57:02 <LinuxCode> or that
May 28 19:57:02 <ReKlipz> microsub, ok
May 28 19:57:04 <Blafasel> It's just a stupid f...king connector that noone uses.
May 28 19:57:05 <ReKlipz> usb
May 28 19:57:06 <GAN8001> But not proprietary.
May 28 19:57:13 <ReKlipz> its no smaller than mini usb...
May 28 19:57:16 <GAN8001> Blafasel, because it's new. . . .
May 28 19:57:18 <GAN8001> Yes it is
May 28 19:57:22 <Blafasel> So that you can sell the cable for $$$$ instead of some cents..
May 28 19:57:25 <GAN8001> It's significantly smaller than MiniUSB
May 28 19:57:31 <Blafasel> Yeah, but what for?
May 28 19:57:31 <LinuxCode> yah
May 28 19:57:36 <LinuxCode> half the size
May 28 19:57:37 <GAN8001> http://www.ringnokia.com/images/2007/05/27/motorola_razr2_v8img_3995.jpg
May 28 19:57:57 <Blafasel> Don't tell me that they needed the mm on the device ;)
May 28 19:57:58 <LinuxCode> Blafasel, a standard usb wouldnt fit on a n810
May 28 19:58:08 <qwerty12_N800> Nokia recently put out something in a repo to set usbnet via control panel applet.
May 28 19:58:11 <GAN8001> Blafasel, MUCH smaller, MUCH more durable (significantly more plug/unplug cycles).
May 28 19:58:13 <ReKlipz> it's half as thing, but 10x as brekable
May 28 19:58:20 <Blafasel> Mini (or whatever) would have fittet.
May 28 19:58:30 <GAN8001> Several orders of magnitude more durable than Mini, actually, ReKlipz.
May 28 19:58:34 <ReKlipz> really?
May 28 19:58:36 <GAN8001> Yes
May 28 19:58:38 <ReKlipz> thats good then
May 28 19:58:39 <Blafasel> And is in use all over the place (cameras, gadgets)
May 28 19:58:44 <ReKlipz> it looks much more brekable
May 28 19:59:17 <GAN8001> Blafasel, there was a time nobody used USB
May 28 19:59:30 <GAN8001> It takes more than 6 months for new standards to get moving in the market place.
May 28 19:59:30 <ReKlipz> and it wasn't that long ago...
May 28 19:59:37 <GAN8001> It's a BIG improvement over MiniUSB
May 28 20:00:22 <GAN8001> Blafasel, cables will get cheaper when economies of scale kick in.
May 28 20:01:49 <Blafasel> GAN8001: Your points are theoretical imo. You cite "smaller" which I'd counter with insignificant for this device and "more durable" which I'd counter with "See these old mini using devices of mine"
May 28 20:02:22 <Blafasel> Well.. I don't like the decision and just cannot see the point. Even their own mobile brand doesn't use it (Had an E51 lately).
May 28 20:02:35 <johnx> Blafasel, I think they were trying to save all the room they could, and as for more durable there is a spec somewhere that states the number of plug/un-plug cycles
May 28 20:02:35 <GAN8001> OK, Blafasel, believe whatever you want to believe, I don't need to convince you. Just check your facts before you spew. :)
May 28 20:03:02 <GAN8001> Get back to me when you design a mobile device.
May 28 20:03:51 <Blafasel> GAN8001: Renewable energy is the future. We should have a solar-based N810. The price and output will catch on with the requirements. But it's def. "better" ;)
May 28 20:03:53 <glass> miniusb is more common.. thats why i like having them on my devices over microusb
May 28 20:04:03 <glass> finding a microusb charger is a bitch for example
May 28 20:04:09 <Blafasel> johnx: Yeah, I don't doubt that the numbers are right.
May 28 20:04:22 <Blafasel> glass: Thanks for jumping in.
May 28 20:04:52 <glass> the new nokia smaller charger plug sucks bigtime because it's not durable
May 28 20:05:24 <Blafasel> That's another point that I'd agree with. Wonder what the plugin cycles are for that tiny pin.
May 28 20:09:07 <ReKlipz> so, there is 2GB internal flash, and one miniSDHC slot on the outside of the n810?
May 28 20:09:15 <GAN8001> Right
May 28 20:09:24 <GAN8001> Plus the 256MB of NAND the rootfs is on.
May 28 20:10:24 <puffandstuff> I would like to know the average "stratup time" of an application using maemo please
May 28 20:10:42 <ReKlipz> poop on the NAND flash, go with NOR next time...
May 28 20:10:52 <ReKlipz> i assume 2GB internal is NAND as well?
May 28 20:11:14 <GAN8001> It's a soldered on SD card, more or less.
May 28 20:11:15 <ReKlipz> is that an SD card and is it accessable? (physically?)
May 28 20:11:31 <ReKlipz> hmm, so it's not upgradable
May 28 20:11:33 <LinuxCode> GAN800, are you certain ?!?!
May 28 20:11:37 <johnx> puffandstuff, any app in particular?
May 28 20:11:38 <LinuxCode> I was sure it was NAND
May 28 20:12:18 <ReKlipz> SD is nand...
May 28 20:12:55 <puffandstuff> johnx, i missexplained the purpose, sorry. I would like to know how much is the startup time from pushing power on until displaying the desktop
May 28 20:13:03 <johnx> ah
May 28 20:13:04 <GAN8001> 30 seconds
May 28 20:13:08 <GAN8001> But it's an always-on device
May 28 20:13:09 <puffandstuff> thanks
May 28 20:13:12 <LinuxCode> ReKlipz, no its not
May 28 20:13:15 <GAN8001> So the idea is to never turn it off.
May 28 20:13:53 <qwerty12_N800> That c
May 28 20:13:57 <qwerty12_N800> soz
May 28 20:14:03 <ReKlipz> LinuxCode: how do you figure?
May 28 20:14:14 <penguinbait> with expr usually
May 28 20:14:19 <johnx> LinuxCode, might want to correct wikipedia then...
May 28 20:14:21 <puffandstuff> GAN8001, i'm planning to use maemo in automotive
May 28 20:14:27 <LinuxCode> nand has 2000 writes
May 28 20:14:42 <GAN8001> puffandstuff, it'll idle for about 12 days doing nothing.
May 28 20:14:46 <LinuxCode> cant recall..actually I think it was more
May 28 20:14:47 <GAN8001> No need to power cycle it.
May 28 20:15:04 <johnx> LinuxCode, more like 10,000 to 100,000 I believe
May 28 20:15:14 <johnx> then wear leveling helps that quite a bit
May 28 20:15:29 <LinuxCode> johnx, yah
May 28 20:15:35 <GAN8001> Though automotive temperatures are hell on batteries.
May 28 20:15:36 <LinuxCode> standard flash is considerably less
May 28 20:15:47 <puffandstuff> GAN8001, thanks for the information, as i said we aim to port maemo on other cpu targets targeting automotive industry
May 28 20:15:51 <johnx> LinuxCode, what is "standard flash"?
May 28 20:15:57 <ReKlipz> nor is faster than nand
May 28 20:16:01 <ReKlipz> and more expensive
May 28 20:16:05 <GAN8001> puffandstuff, then startup time is entirely irrelevant. ;)
May 28 20:16:07 <LinuxCode> ok so "apparently" that samsung has a nand chip
May 28 20:16:12 <GAN8001> As it's entirely dependent on the CPU.
May 28 20:16:20 <GAN8001> . . . and flash memory speed.
May 28 20:16:20 <LinuxCode> cant be arsed to check the chip specs
May 28 20:16:22 <puffandstuff> GAN800, not really
May 28 20:16:32 <LinuxCode> johnx, I cant recall
May 28 20:16:39 <LinuxCode> it was 10.000 or so
May 28 20:16:46 <LinuxCode> before you get degradation
May 28 20:16:46 <ReKlipz> The endurance of NAND flash is much greater than that of NOR flash (typically 1,000,000 cycles vs. 100,000 cycles). (wikipedia)
May 28 20:16:52 <johnx> LinuxCode, I think you might be a little confused :)
May 28 20:16:59 <LinuxCode> its been some time before I saw the test specs
May 28 20:17:02 <ReKlipz> gotta run, back in a few
May 28 20:17:05 <LinuxCode> johnx, possibly
May 28 20:17:07 <GAN8001> puffandstuff, honestly, you'd be better off looking at Debian with Hildon/Matchbox or Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded
May 28 20:17:11 <puffandstuff> GAN800, all the application that we're using actually boots in about 5-7 seconds
May 28 20:17:21 <GAN8001> "Maemo" doesn't port very well to other hardware at the moment.
May 28 20:17:45 <puffandstuff> GAN8001, thanks
May 28 20:18:01 <LinuxCode> Ive got better things to do than argue on the internet anyway
May 28 20:18:05 <LinuxCode> hehe
May 28 20:18:11 <GAN8001> What I'm saying, is the startup time of maemo on a 400MHz ARM will have zero resemblance to the startup time of maemo on a 1.3GHz Atom. ;)
May 28 20:18:35 <johnx> no one's arguing but you LinuxCode :)
May 28 20:18:43 <LinuxCode> k
May 28 20:18:45 <LinuxCode> lol
May 28 20:18:47 <penguinbait> depends it metalayer-crawler is running
May 28 20:18:59 <puffandstuff> GAN8001,  i agree
May 28 20:19:07 * LinuxCode goes to do better things
May 28 20:19:24 <qwerty12_N800> sheet, i just read ke-recv is oss. now come on nokia, we need mce, dsme & bme...
May 28 20:19:46 <johnx> qwerty12_N800, dsme is pretty thin
May 28 20:19:52 <johnx> they'll never give you bme though
May 28 20:20:10 <qwerty12_N800> I can dream! :p
May 28 20:21:15 <GAN8001> Yeesh, it's like the hour-of-idiocy in here. <_<
May 28 20:21:34 <GAN8001> mce would be nice.
May 28 20:21:38 * qwerty12_N800 takes gold
May 28 20:22:33 <johnx> all I want is little documentation on wifi powersaving through /sys and I'll be happy
May 28 20:22:51 <GAN8001> Hehe
May 28 20:22:57 <GAN8001> It's the small wishes that kill you. ;)
May 28 20:23:16 <johnx> I think Nokia might actually be able to do that though
May 28 20:23:54 <johnx> it's a public interface, and the code that controls it is in cx3110x
May 28 20:23:56 <GAN8001> You'd think Nokia could add a little 12/24 hour switch in the settings, too
May 28 20:23:56 * qwerty12_N800 really really wants docs on /dev/mtd1 ;)
May 28 20:24:00 <GAN8001> But you know how it is. :P
May 28 20:24:35 <summatusmentis> penguinbait's KDE isn't in the extra's repo, is it?
May 28 20:25:12 <johnx> summatusmentis, nope, it's on internettablettalk.com/forums
May 28 20:25:25 <qwerty12_N800> I was reading that wiki page on editing the locales, i'm sure it would work but I have no need for 24h.
May 28 20:25:41 <summatusmentis> johnx: yep, I'm looking at that page
May 28 20:26:23 <ReKlipz> the tech specs for the n810 are confusing, is it telling me that i can use a microsd card directly, or that I can, but only with a minisd adapter (if thats the case, then why put it on there?)
May 28 20:27:11 <johnx> only with a mini-sd adapter
May 28 20:27:25 <johnx> so that people realize that adapters exist
May 28 20:27:31 <ReKlipz> ok, so in reality i need a minisd card
May 28 20:27:39 <ReKlipz> or a micro, but will need an adapter
May 28 20:27:43 <johnx> yes
May 28 20:27:51 <johnx> but lots of micros come with mini and full adapters
May 28 20:30:29 * qwerty12_N800 just found  repo with maemo boost libraries, w00t, time to start running a lot of dpkg's tommorow... 
May 28 20:31:15 <summatusmentis> johnx: and the deb that he provides to clone it, should close my entire system to SD ?
May 28 20:31:25 <summatusmentis> (before installing kde)
May 28 20:31:26 <johnx> I have no experience with that
May 28 20:31:34 <penguinbait> whats up sum?
May 28 20:31:54 <summatusmentis> your .deb that you provide to clone my rootfs should clone everything to SD
May 28 20:32:06 <summatusmentis> and then I can install KDE on top of that
May 28 20:32:09 <penguinbait> it will clone running flash to SD
May 28 20:32:15 <summatusmentis> right
May 28 20:32:16 <penguinbait> yes everything
May 28 20:32:43 <summatusmentis> am I reading the KDE thread right? will it fail if I've already installed third party stuff?
May 28 20:32:58 <summatusmentis> or anything beyond factory settings
May 28 20:33:12 <penguinbait> if you have 2GB card, and lots of software installed the KDE installer will fail
May 28 20:33:29 <summatusmentis> well, not lots, but some
May 28 20:33:53 <penguinbait> after clone is complete you need like 1350MB free to install KDE
May 28 20:34:50 <penguinbait> you could clone it and remove software on the cloned partition if it wont fit, it will still all be available if you bot to flash
May 28 20:35:06 <summatusmentis> oh, ok
May 28 20:42:20 <qwerty12_N800> Well, remember me asking for dsp  patch? I found it... http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-January/013604.html .I'll add it into my kernel tommorow...
May 28 20:45:11 <GAN8001> qwerty12_N800's frankenkernel
May 28 20:46:11 <skibur> Is Diablo any good?
May 28 20:46:30 <qwerty12_N800> Browser's worse
May 28 20:46:59 * qwerty12_N800 is seriously tempted to grab Bundyo's opera for os2008
May 28 20:47:28 <Veggen> qwerty: worse than current OS2008 browser?
May 28 20:47:33 <summatusmentis> does the map app that comes factory installled store it's map data on the internal sd card?
May 28 20:47:52 <GAN8001> Keep in mind, it's still very beta.
May 28 20:48:01 <GAN8001> The browser isn't done being worked on.
May 28 20:48:13 <GAN8001> Yes, summatusmentis.
May 28 20:48:32 <qwerty12_N800> browserd idea sucks  though. that's still probably gonna be in final
May 28 20:48:38 <GAN8001> skibur, Diablo is a big improvement over Chinook for what it is.
May 28 20:48:41 <qwerty12_N800> Veggen, yes atm
May 28 20:48:54 <GAN8001> qwerty12_N800, do you really think you're qualified to decide that. :P
May 28 20:49:13 <Veggen> hmm. I'll resist the temptation to do an unofficial upgrade, then.
May 28 20:49:19 <qwerty12_N800> I haven't decided anything, it's what I think.
May 28 20:49:20 <GAN8001> But, more seriously, I haven't actually seen an explanation of the new implementation, so where are you getting your info?
May 28 20:49:58 <fysa> he looked?
May 28 20:50:08 <GAN8001> Where?
May 28 20:50:10 <fysa> I take qwerty12_N800's word.
May 28 20:50:12 <GAN8001> There's nowhere TO look.
May 28 20:50:24 <GAN8001> It's not documented publicly yet.
May 28 20:50:43 <skibur> some dude claims that he/she is runing it
May 28 20:50:53 <GAN8001> Lots of people are running it
May 28 20:51:01 <skibur> link?
May 28 20:51:02 <GAN8001> I'm running it, qwerty12_N800 is running it
May 28 20:51:07 <GAN8001> To?
May 28 20:51:20 <GAN8001> You gotta figure out the password to the repo yourself.
May 28 20:51:45 <skibur> Diablo explanation
May 28 20:51:53 <GAN8001> What explanation? How to run it?
May 28 20:52:11 <skibur> well the improvements and add ons etc..
May 28 20:52:26 <summatusmentis> penguinbait: I'm getting an "Installation file corrupted" for install-tools.deb
May 28 20:52:29 <qwerty12_N800> check the bunch of screenies i made
May 28 20:52:34 <GAN8001> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet_OS#Diablo
May 28 20:52:40 <skibur> thanks
May 28 20:52:57 <Blafasel> qwerty12_N800: Any link to those pictures?
May 28 20:53:29 <qwerty12_N800> They are in that massive diablo thread somewhere...
May 28 20:53:30 <GAN8001> qwerty12_N800, seriously, where's your browserd implementation documentation?
May 28 20:54:22 <skibur> SSU <---- Nice!
May 28 20:54:32 <qwerty12_N800> What documentation do I need? i haven't gone into technical stuff to say it sucks. i know it crashes more and uses more memory
May 28 20:55:48 <GAN8001> That doesn't mean the _idea_ sucks, though. . . .
May 28 20:55:57 <GAN8001> That just means the current implementation is buggy. :\
May 28 20:56:12 <summatusmentis> GAN8001: :-/ I had one of the boxwave screen protectors on my 3200, and I sucked hard at putting it on :)
May 28 20:56:29 <GAN8001> I have a guide for application somewhere on itT, summatusmentis.
May 28 20:57:09 <GAN8001> Here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=117031&postcount=18
May 28 20:58:42 * qwerty12_N800 is honoured to have a thread named after me : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20483
May 28 20:59:12 <GAN8001> Extrapolating that the concept of browserd sucks from some memory consumption and crash data on a pre-release product doesn't make a lot of sense. Especially lacking a complete understanding of why it was implemented or what it does. ;)
May 28 20:59:50 <skibur> sounds great
May 28 20:59:59 <skibur> need to find where to start
May 28 21:00:11 <qwerty12_N800> finding the password ;)
May 28 21:00:27 * qwerty12_N800 is the master of that task
May 28 21:00:28 <summatusmentis> oh god, that sounds like so much work :)
May 28 21:00:36 <summatusmentis> GAN8001: ^
May 28 21:00:43 <skibur> :)
May 28 21:00:43 <GAN8001> It's not that bad
May 28 21:00:46 <GAN8001> and it's a one-off deal
May 28 21:00:51 <GAN8001> You only need to apply it once
May 28 21:00:57 <summatusmentis> right
May 28 21:01:09 <GAN8001> and the results are amazing. ;)
May 28 21:01:25 <GAN8001> qwerty12_N800, did you ever successfully get to 21-4?
May 28 21:01:34 <qwerty12_N800> Yeah, reflashed
May 28 21:02:38 <skibur> Here it is????? ---> http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/a-pleasant-surprise/
May 28 21:02:41 <qwerty12_N800> I keep flashing to the first diablo repo I have archived as it has me favourite tool ftd
May 28 21:03:00 <GAN8001> Wonder what caused the loop
May 28 21:03:32 <GAN8001> skibur, that's after you get the password.
May 28 21:03:38 <puffandstuff> too confused ! is ubuntu mobile Open Source / Free ? does it comme with SDK ?
May 28 21:04:10 <GAN8001> puffandstuff, it's free and opensource
May 28 21:04:25 <GAN8001> There's no cross compiling like for maemo, as it's just straight x86
May 28 21:04:36 <puffandstuff> GAN8001,  many thanks
May 28 21:04:45 <qwerty12_N800> If you build the diablo version of apt, you don't need the password.
May 28 21:04:47 <skibur> o ok
May 28 21:04:48 <skibur> :(
May 28 21:04:59 * qwerty12_N800 built
May 28 21:05:10 <GAN8001> puffandstuff, the reason I recommend that or Debian + Matchbox/Hildon is because all the important non-hardware-specfic parts of maemo are in them.
May 28 21:05:26 <skibur> dpm
May 28 21:05:38 <puffandstuff> GAN8001, yes
May 28 21:05:42 <skibur> don't have time to built
May 28 21:05:46 * skibur moves on
May 28 21:06:16 <GAN8001> Ubuntu Mobile is still gearing up, really.
May 28 21:06:23 <GAN8001> Targeted at the MIDs.
May 28 21:06:31 <GAN8001> puffandstuff, #ubuntu-mobile
May 28 21:06:48 <GAN8001> skibur, it's mostly just bug fixes at the moment
May 28 21:06:57 <GAN8001> Really better off waiting for the final. ;)
May 28 21:07:25 <skibur> true
May 28 21:07:30 <crashanddie> same as with Diablo :P
May 28 21:07:51 <skibur> lol just very curious :P
May 28 21:07:57 <Blafasel> I'm interested in using ubuntu mobile on the eeePC. The screenshots were quite nice.
May 28 21:08:13 * qwerty12_N800 was really glad to "beta test", means i got some internal nokia progs
May 28 21:08:16 <GAN8001> Hrm, I wanted to bug crashanddie about something but now I can't remember what. . . . :\
May 28 21:08:43 <qwerty12_N800> plumbing problems?
May 28 21:08:46 * qwerty12_N800 runs
May 28 21:09:04 <crashanddie> GAN8001, hmm?
May 28 21:09:14 <GAN8001> I don't remember. :P
May 28 21:09:32 <crashanddie> Well you're bugging me anyhow now that you've said that
May 28 21:09:35 <crashanddie> so I'd say...
May 28 21:09:38 <crashanddie> MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
May 28 21:10:20 <GAN8001> Woo!
May 28 21:10:58 <crashanddie> GAN8001, last thing we talked about was my ISP, FiOS, all that
May 28 21:11:04 <ReKlipz> ok, how to boot from sd card?
May 28 21:11:21 * ricko73 wishes FiOS was available here
May 28 21:11:21 <GAN8001> Yeah, it was something maemo-related.
May 28 21:11:29 <Saviq> ReKlipz: google
May 28 21:11:36 <ReKlipz> :) am
May 28 21:11:37 <GAN8001> Ship google your N810
May 28 21:11:40 <GAN8001> They'll set it up for you. :P
May 28 21:11:43 <qwerty12_N800> crashanddie, You get FiOS in France?
May 28 21:11:50 <crashanddie> qwerty12_N800, sure
May 28 21:11:52 <GAN8001> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631
May 28 21:12:35 <ricko73> we can get 16M/2M cable internet (for US$75/mo)
May 28 21:12:40 <GAN8001> ReKlipz ^
May 28 21:12:46 <qwerty12_N800> crashanddie, Man, we don't afaik :( (btw, how long before you move here) :)
May 28 21:12:46 <crashanddie> GAN8001, or maybe microb ?
May 28 21:13:06 <crashanddie> qwerty12_N800, I should be moving begin august
May 28 21:13:11 <GAN8001> Hrm, maybe
May 28 21:13:23 <GAN8001> crashanddie, you were having trouble with the connecting bouncing?
May 28 21:13:48 <crashanddie> GAN8001, well, the browser takes it time, yeah
May 28 21:13:54 <GAN8001> Yeah, that was it.
May 28 21:14:14 <GAN8001> I asked timeless about it, he thought it could be DNS, but didn't know offhand
May 28 21:14:19 <GAN8001> I never actually got an answer
May 28 21:14:29 <GAN8001> So I'm not sure why I thought I needed to talk to you. :P
May 28 21:15:12 * GAN8001 may have been running over the people experiencing it in his head when he asked.
May 28 21:15:20 <qwerty12_N800> My N800 does that when it's low on memory
May 28 21:15:24 <crashanddie> qwerty12_N800, I'm currently planning a few trips to Liverpool, Cardiff, Bristol, Birmingham, London, see what I like most, and what I'll be able to afford
May 28 21:15:51 <qwerty12_N800> crashanddie, Cool! (but you know London is King ;) :p)
May 28 21:16:00 <crashanddie> Yeah, but London is big, and expensive
May 28 21:16:13 <qwerty12_N800> Btw, why not Manchester?
May 28 21:16:14 <qwerty12_N800> ah
May 28 21:16:20 <crashanddie> Gunchester ? Nha
May 28 21:16:55 <crashanddie> I mean, I'm just a junior dev, and I'd rather not get caught up in a city where 60% of my wage goes into a crappy flat
May 28 21:17:24 <qwerty12_N800> Hehe, I feel at home in Manchester due to yorkshire roots but I <3 london
May 28 21:17:27 <qwerty12_N800> eek
May 28 21:17:28 <summatusmentis> where are Documents, Videos, etc. stored? what path?
May 28 21:17:40 <crashanddie> summatusmentis, /home/user/
May 28 21:17:57 <crashanddie> summatusmentis, /home/user/MyDocs
May 28 21:17:59 <GAN8001>  /home/user/MyDocs/.documents etc more specifically
May 28 21:18:09 <crashanddie> ctrl + h ftw
May 28 21:20:16 * GAN8001 wonders how LinuxTag is going.
May 28 21:22:34 <ReKlipz> so, why can't i do things like sudo ifconfig as "user"?
May 28 21:23:05 <skibur> qwerty lol  ----> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=180084&postcount=232  HOLY **** Program
May 28 21:23:07 <skibur> :P
May 28 21:23:12 <summatusmentis> what do you guys use for IRC on the tablets?
May 28 21:23:53 <GAN800> xchat
May 28 21:23:55 <crashanddie> xchat
May 28 21:24:02 <Johnny5> ssh into a box and run irssi/bitchx/whatever else you want :)
May 28 21:24:21 <summatusmentis> Johnny5: I'm considering it, but I need to setup krb5 auth for that first
May 28 21:24:26 <GAN800> Console stuff is a pain on thr tablets.
May 28 21:24:40 <summatusmentis> even w/ the keyboard?
May 28 21:24:43 <GAN800> xchat is much better suited.
May 28 21:24:56 <crashanddie> GAN800, I just noticed something... You're General Antilles, right ?
May 28 21:25:03 <GAN800> I have less experience with the N810
May 28 21:25:14 <GAN800> Yeah, crashanddie
May 28 21:25:21 <crashanddie> hmm
May 28 21:25:22 <crashanddie> ok
May 28 21:25:26 <summatusmentis> I need to remap my keyboard too, I keep thinking the bottom left Fn key is a shift
May 28 21:25:40 <summatusmentis> also, I need to find a key to map tab too
May 28 21:25:42 <summatusmentis> to*
May 28 21:25:42 <GAN800> GeneralAntillesN800 is a little long
May 28 21:25:54 <summatusmentis> I disagree
May 28 21:26:01 <summatusmentis> long nicks ftw
May 28 21:26:03 <skibur>  qwerty lol  ----> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=180084&postcount=232
May 28 21:26:28 <Johnny5> OpenSSH on the tablet can use keys.  Just use publickey auth
May 28 21:27:15 * CrashandDie thinks his n810 battery is dying
May 28 21:27:46 <summatusmentis> Johnny5: I know it can, but the place I'm ssh'ing into likes krb5
May 28 21:27:47 <CrashandDie> It just went from 3hours left, to "OMG RED ALERT Please recharge" in about 10 minutes
May 28 21:27:56 <Johnny5> Gotcha
May 28 21:28:20 <GAN800> Did you reboot?
May 28 21:28:41 <CrashandDie> nope
May 28 21:28:48 <summatusmentis> I've got krb5 installed, just haven't done anything to it yet
May 28 21:28:53 <CrashandDie> just been testing out an app I wrote
May 28 21:29:06 <CrashandDie> so either this app drains battery
May 28 21:29:16 <GAN800> Well, 3 hours was probably at 165MHz
May 28 21:29:31 <GAN800> Then it kicks up to 400MHz and boom.
May 28 21:29:43 <CrashandDie> It underclocks when idle ?
May 28 21:30:07 <GAN800> It basically turns off when idle
May 28 21:30:10 <CrashandDie> ok
May 28 21:30:16 <CrashandDie> Well, this app is kinda memory intensive
May 28 21:30:21 <CrashandDie> and CPU intensive
May 28 21:30:34 <GAN800> ARM/OMAP powersaving is some crazy stuff.
May 28 21:30:45 <GAN800> But it's variable
May 28 21:30:46 <CrashandDie> XML validating/parsing/constructing ftw
May 28 21:30:57 <GAN800> So battery usage is all over the map.
May 28 21:31:14 <CrashandDie> like pretty much all the mobile devices out there
May 28 21:31:26 <GAN800> Except worse.
May 28 21:31:46 <GAN800> ceiling is a lot higher for us.
May 28 21:32:00 <CrashandDie> Well, for any mobile device, I look upon the battery manager as something to warn me when it's going to die
May 28 21:32:09 <CrashandDie> not exactly "oh cool, I still have 3hours and 13 minutes left"
May 28 21:32:31 <GAN800> Yeah, small lion level detection is a little hard
May 28 21:32:40 <GAN800> voltage is so variable with load
May 28 21:32:53 <CrashandDie> true
May 28 21:33:09 <GAN800> and Nokia's worse than most (their mobiles, too)
May 28 21:33:11 <CrashandDie> I remember an old Nokia, when going into the hidden menu, you could see the current battery voltage output
May 28 21:33:30 <CrashandDie> current as in now, not electrical
May 28 21:34:01 <GAN800> You can get the values from retu
May 28 21:34:15 <GAN800> There's an app on nitapps.com
May 28 21:34:25 <GAN800> For percentage anyway
May 28 21:34:26 <CrashandDie> and when it was at something like 2.96v, you'd have 3 bars on your battery... at 2.86v, you'd have about 10 seconds to plug it in
May 28 21:34:36 <GAN800> There's another one with more values.
May 28 21:34:53 <GAN800> Hehe
May 28 21:35:01 <skibur> I will continue with slackware on the N800
May 28 21:35:26 <NullM0dem> slack on n800?
May 28 21:35:45 * NullM0dem wakes up
May 28 21:36:21 <skibur> is just a side project for me
May 28 21:36:51 <NullM0dem> me too though i do not have much time for it
May 28 21:36:52 <skibur> just reading about embedded systems and slackware
May 28 21:37:05 <NullM0dem> armedslack?
May 28 21:37:09 <skibur> yeah
May 28 21:37:52 <skibur> will It be done you ask? nah, but I'm learning on the way.  who knows, it just might come true. :)
May 28 21:37:54 <CrashandDie> isn't slackware source-based ?
May 28 21:38:00 <NullM0dem> skibur: where were you reading about slack?
May 28 21:38:14 <NullM0dem> CrashandDie: yes slack is source based
May 28 21:38:18 <||cw> CrashandDie: not any more so than anything else
May 28 21:38:29 <CrashandDie> hmm
May 28 21:38:31 <CrashandDie> luckily
May 28 21:38:32 <||cw> slack has binary packages
May 28 21:38:43 <NullM0dem> true, alot of packages are precompiled
May 28 21:38:43 <||cw> just doens't have a lot of them
May 28 21:38:48 <CrashandDie> Imagine compiling Xorg on the NIT... \o/
May 28 21:38:49 <NullM0dem> but just the basics
May 28 21:38:53 <NullM0dem> no way
May 28 21:39:11 <||cw> why not, we used to compile everything on 486's
May 28 21:39:15 <NullM0dem> I wish directFB could be used, though i do not know enough about it
May 28 21:39:28 <CrashandDie> "Why d'you get yourself a new Nokia ? Wasn't the other one like 2 months old ?" "Yeah, but it's still compiling OpenOffice"
May 28 21:39:32 <||cw> remeber when a kernel compile would take a full day?
May 28 21:39:42 <CrashandDie> ||cw, *shrug*
May 28 21:39:55 <CrashandDie> djeezus
May 28 21:40:03 <CrashandDie> and say I'm pissed cuz my app takes about 2 minutes to compile :(
May 28 21:40:41 <NullM0dem> LFS is fun
May 28 21:40:43 <NullM0dem> :P
May 28 21:40:51 <GAN800> You can, NullM0dem
May 28 21:41:02 <CrashandDie> http://slexy.org/view/s20oKwkQ8g \o/
May 28 21:41:05 <GAN800> Debian does it.
May 28 21:41:19 <qwerty12_N800> Via fanoush tools iirc
May 28 21:41:31 <qwerty12_N800> Took me *ages* to setup :/
May 28 21:41:48 <NullM0dem> GAN800: directfb? from http://www.directfb.org ?
May 28 21:41:49 <qwerty12_N800> But it means I can do it in maemo
May 28 21:42:07 <mazzen> i'm running openssh server on my n810, but i cann't connect the device. i googled and noticed, that i'm not the only one who has this problem, but unfortunately i didn't find a solution. does anyone knows something about it?
May 28 21:42:13 <skibur> NullM0dem ---> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=185452
May 28 21:42:28 <CrashandDie> mazzen, can't connect isn't really an error message
May 28 21:42:40 <CrashandDie> mazzen, I have no problem whatsoever with openssh server on the IT
May 28 21:42:54 <CrashandDie> mazzen, can you run a port scanner, stuff like that ?
May 28 21:43:37 <mazzen> CrashandDie: dude you are right, sry. i get "no route to host", when i try to connect the device from my computer
May 28 21:44:57 <CrashandDie> http://slexy.org/view/s20RbikYEI :D 1m57s :D
May 28 21:45:00 <summatusmentis> what's the user username?
May 28 21:45:14 <CrashandDie> summatusmentis, user ?
May 28 21:46:17 <CrashandDie> btw, remember me, some time, to send a box of chocolates or a six pack to Niels, the Garage maintainer
May 28 21:47:45 <summatusmentis> CrashandDie: ok, then how do I ssh in as user?
May 28 21:47:57 <CrashandDie> summatusmentis, you can't, iirc
May 28 21:48:14 <ReKlipz> which repo do i need for usbnet?
May 28 21:48:23 <GAN800> Just, fwiw, he's X-Fade here, CrashandDie
May 28 21:48:36 <CrashandDie> GAN800, good to know
May 28 21:49:19 <CrashandDie> summatusmentis, I never tried using a cert-based authentication on the user account, I only SSH into the root account of the NIT
May 28 21:49:48 <CrashandDie> summatusmentis, but IIRC, you can't set a password on the user account, hence, no ssh login
May 28 21:49:58 <summatusmentis> CrashandDie: do you know why you can't? is it because there's no password set?
May 28 21:50:06 <GAN800> Keep an eye out for dneary (new docmaster), and andre and guenther (new bugmasters), too.
May 28 21:50:52 <CrashandDie> X-Fade, you'll have to email me your home address so I can get you a present
May 28 21:50:53 * andre___ looks up
May 28 21:51:14 * GAN800 looks up.
May 28 21:51:19 * GAN800 screams.
May 28 21:51:33 <CrashandDie> GAN800, told you you should've taken care of those spiderwebs
May 28 21:51:49 <GAN800> andre___, how's LinuxTag
May 28 21:51:58 <CrashandDie> anyway, back to coding
May 28 21:52:10 <andre___> i'm not there yet - tomorrow :)
May 28 21:52:19 <andre___> just for one day
May 28 21:52:44 <andre___> could convince my teacher today that i'm allowed to miss his lesson tomorrow ;-)
May 28 21:53:00 <ReKlipz> would someone mind explaining to me the partition structure of the n810?
May 28 21:53:10 <summatusmentis> CrashandDie: you can set a passwd for user if you're root
May 28 21:53:14 <CrashandDie> btw, anyone in here use doxygen with graphviz/dot ?
May 28 21:53:15 <summatusmentis> will this break things?
May 28 21:53:35 <CrashandDie> summatusmentis, I dunno, wouldn't try it, considering the limited helpfulness
May 28 21:53:53 <summatusmentis> erm.... already did :)
May 28 21:54:26 <CrashandDie> summatusmentis, logging in as user would require you to sudo gainroot to become root, logging in as root would require you to su user to become user... So real difference in the end
May 28 21:54:32 <CrashandDie> so no real**
May 28 21:55:28 <summatusmentis> I do things via command line a decent amount, w/out needing root
May 28 21:55:42 <summatusmentis> scp, etc.
May 28 21:55:53 <CrashandDie> summatusmentis, try cert based approach, tell me if it works
May 28 22:02:06 <ReKlipz> what is a FIASCO image?
May 28 22:04:22 <GAN800> The firmware image.
May 28 22:04:48 <CrashandDie> http://www.co.washington.or.us/sheriff/media/photos/carhse.jpg
May 28 22:04:53 <CrashandDie> that's a fiasco image
May 28 22:05:29 <ReKlipz> so..., it doesn't contain the kernel, or anything pertaining to the os really
May 28 22:06:11 <GAN800> It contains everything
May 28 22:06:28 <GAN800> kernel, NOLO, initfs, rootfs
May 28 22:07:04 <ReKlipz> mmk, so, if, say, I wanted to put straight up debian on my n810, how would i go about that?
May 28 22:07:19 <ReKlipz> putting the loader on an sd card, and the installing?
May 28 22:07:44 <GAN800> untar the tar image onto a card.
May 28 22:07:56 <GAN800> flash fanoush's initfs
May 28 22:08:16 <ReKlipz> well, im not actually going to do it, i just want to learn more about what the underlying parts are
May 28 22:10:34 <ReKlipz> so, initfs, rootfs, are partitions on the internal 2GB mem?
May 28 22:11:25 <GAN800> No.
May 28 22:12:01 <GAN800> Forget the 2GB, it's just an SD card they soldered on. Everything is on the 256MB internal flash.
May 28 22:12:13 <ReKlipz> ok
May 28 22:12:21 <ReKlipz> so, it's on the 256mb internal flash
May 28 22:13:00 <ReKlipz> what is NOLO?
May 28 22:13:07 <GAN800> bootloader
May 28 22:13:14 <GAN800> NOkia LOader
May 28 22:13:51 <ReKlipz> mmk, and this is placed in at the beginning of the 256mb flash?
May 28 22:14:36 <ReKlipz> wait, it seems X-Loader is first...
May 28 22:14:47 <GAN800> pressumably, though I haven't bothered to confirm that.
May 28 22:15:26 <ReKlipz> mmk, so, xloader, noloader, and the secondary loader are all bootloaders...
May 28 22:15:31 <ReKlipz> or part of the booting stage
May 28 22:15:44 <ReKlipz> the initfs and rootfs reside on the 256mb internal flash as well
May 28 22:16:23 <ReKlipz> as for what is actually on them, well, that will have to wait for another day (tomorrow, :p). I assume the initfs is essentially the equiv of grub on the MBR of an hdd
May 28 22:17:33 <CrashandDie> ReKlipz, erhm... There's initfs on hdds too :P
May 28 22:18:22 <CrashandDie> erhm
May 28 22:18:23 <CrashandDie> scrap that
May 28 22:19:01 <ReKlipz> initrd?
May 28 22:19:17 <ReKlipz> gotta run to class, hopefully i will have it figured out by tomorrow
May 28 22:19:20 <CrashandDie> yeah, was confused for a while
May 28 22:28:15 <vivia> Hello everyone... I am having SERIOUS issues with my N810 discount code - mainly the spanish online store is to blame, but I'm tired of calling them, any place on maemo.org where I can get some help?
May 28 22:30:53 <summatusmentis> CrashandDie: fwiw, running 'passwd user' as root allows you to set the user password, which you can then use to ssh into as user
May 28 22:31:07 <CrashandDie> summatusmentis, reboot ?
May 28 22:31:29 <summatusmentis> yep, already did, nothing seems to be broken
May 28 22:31:37 <CrashandDie> fair enough
May 28 22:32:05 <summatusmentis> or rather, I haven't run into anything that is broken yet :)
May 28 22:33:15 <summatusmentis> is the camera on the n810 used for anything?
May 28 22:34:20 <CrashandDie> excepted taking pictures and webcam ?
May 28 22:34:33 <summatusmentis> well, like, skype doesn't use it
May 28 22:34:34 <lopz> re
May 28 22:34:45 <summatusmentis> so what is the webcam compat w/?
May 28 22:36:25 <beford> You can use it with gizmo
May 28 22:36:57 <beford> SIP + h.323
May 28 22:37:03 <summatusmentis> gizmo is... another SIP app?
May 28 22:37:46 <CrashandDie> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8XExv3goeAI&feature=related
May 28 22:37:47 <beford> gizmo is jabber I think
May 28 22:38:02 <Saviq> it's based on xmpp, yes
May 28 22:39:19 <summatusmentis> oh, so for things like Google talk, for instance
May 28 22:39:42 <beford> Google Talk is jabber too, but the current client doesn't support Video talk
May 28 22:40:16 <beford> I read somewhere that Google will be probably releasing a new client with Video support
May 28 22:42:03 <summatusmentis> but could one use gizmo for Google Talk video?
May 28 22:50:06 <GAN8001> Gizmo works Gizmo-to-Gizmo for tablet-to-PC
May 28 22:50:13 <GAN8001> summatusmentis, it's an open alternative to Skype
May 28 22:50:15 <GAN8001> Very nice
May 28 22:50:24 <GAN8001> works with the built-in SIP client (no video, though)
May 28 22:53:48 <Robot101> gizmo uses xmpp for chat, and sip for calling
May 28 22:53:49 <Robot101> its kinda weird
May 28 22:57:03 <GAN8001> But nice, because you don't need to the stupid proprietary client.
May 28 22:58:20 <summatusmentis> I guess that's true... I just installed the stupid proprietary client
May 28 22:59:43 <beford> lol
May 28 22:59:58 <GAN8001> I always recommend Gizmo over Skype if your contacts aren't already all using Skype.
May 28 23:00:09 <GAN8001> Especially on the tablet, as you can use rtcomm
May 28 23:00:22 <summatusmentis> I'm not really using any of it
May 28 23:00:33 <beford> The only way to do video is with the proprietary client I believe
May 28 23:00:43 <summatusmentis> I've got one skype client, and it's my family(for when I'm at school, I'm at my parents house for the summer)
May 28 23:01:02 <summatusmentis> s/client/contact/
May 28 23:01:04 <infobot> summatusmentis meant: I've got one skype contact, and it's my family(for when I'm at school, I'm at my parents house for the summer)
May 28 23:01:19 <summatusmentis> the proprietary client doesn't do video either
May 28 23:01:24 <beford> it does
May 28 23:01:33 <GAN8001> To the Gizmo 4 beta
May 28 23:01:35 <GAN8001> For Windows
May 28 23:01:38 <beford> you need to click on a button once the call was stablished
May 28 23:01:38 <GAN8001> or to other tablets.
May 28 23:01:39 <Robot101> thats a bit odd, I wonder what gizmo do which makes video not work with our SIP client
May 28 23:01:50 <fysa> how is Gizmo over EDGE? ;)
May 28 23:02:01 <GAN8001> I tested it ONCE, fysa
May 28 23:02:05 <GAN8001> It actually worked OK
May 28 23:02:14 <fysa> lag?
May 28 23:02:29 <GAN8001> But no idea if it'd actually pan out with real usage, as it was only a 20 second, connect and say hi test.
May 28 23:03:16 <GAN8001> Robot101, if you could figure out Gizmo video with rtcomm that'd be amazing.
May 28 23:06:03 <vivia> if anyone is interested in reading my n810 story and how i'm still trying to receive it, i just emailed it to maemo-developers , or you can also read it here: http://pastebin.com/d1e62cdca    any help would be more than welcome...
May 28 23:06:30 <GAN8001> vivia, Quim may pick it up from developers
May 28 23:06:45 <GAN8001> Keep in mind that most everybody is at LinuxTag this week, so don't expect a response until next week.
May 28 23:07:18 <vivia> GAN8001: i've been trying since december/january or something... so a week seems like nothing
May 28 23:07:23 <Navi> I would think they'd be watching the dev list
May 28 23:07:32 <GAN8001> Ha
May 28 23:07:38 <vivia> i don't mind waiting, i just hope i can get some help here
May 28 23:07:44 <vivia> i ended up even losing money
May 28 23:07:46 <GAN8001> vivia, it's what you get for living in a country with a crappy Nokia shop. :P
May 28 23:08:20 <vivia> well, i was born here, still doing my phd here, nothing much i can do i guess. :)
May 28 23:08:43 <GAN8001> You could always go trout-walloping at Nokia HQ
May 28 23:09:05 <GAN8001> I'm sure we could get enough people together to pay your expenses and more. :D
May 28 23:09:44 <summatusmentis> bum deal, the openssh packages don't have GSSAPI options implemented
May 28 23:09:45 <vivia> enough people together.. :) that's why i decided to send to maemo-developers... it's different to have one freaking customer yelling in greece, and it's different to have a whole team supporting :)
May 28 23:10:57 <vivia> anyway, thanx... :) don't know whether you've read the story but i'm about to have a nervous breakdown after all this story
May 28 23:11:25 <GAN8001> Your not the only one to have trouble with the discount codes
May 28 23:11:35 <vivia> oh really?
May 28 23:11:37 <GAN8001> but probably one of the few remaining stragglers. ;)
May 28 23:11:51 <GAN8001> Everybody had a lot of trouble initially
May 28 23:11:53 <vivia> and probably the only one to lose money on top of that :)
May 28 23:12:04 <GAN8001> Then it was mostly just the Canadians
May 28 23:12:09 <GAN8001> then it was some odd others
May 28 23:12:15 <GAN8001> now mostly everybody seems to be good.
May 28 23:12:19 <vivia> spain too, i was told that a guy had problems where neither code worked
May 28 23:12:39 <summatusmentis> what does the discount code get you?
May 28 23:13:00 <vivia> summatusmentis: i've already used 3 discount codes in vain and the 4th one is a petty 5%...
May 28 23:13:32 <GAN8001> summatusmentis, it's a developer/contributor discount
May 28 23:13:40 <GAN8001> $160 USD N810 initially.
May 28 23:13:43 <vivia> oh sorry, misunderstood the "get you" part
May 28 23:13:48 <GAN8001> http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/500_fortunate_applicants.html
May 28 23:13:58 <summatusmentis> GAN8001: omg, that's an awesome deal
May 28 23:14:09 <GAN8001> Yeah, they did it for the 770 and N800, too
May 28 23:14:14 <vivia> i guess i'll end up paying the full price after all
May 28 23:14:15 <GAN8001> and hopefully for the N900.
May 28 23:14:21 <vivia> but hell, i at least want the money i spent
May 28 23:14:22 <GAN8001> So time to get developing/contributing, summatusmentis. ;)
May 28 23:15:26 <summatusmentis> I'm contributig to openafs this summer
May 28 23:15:42 <vivia> summatusmentis: maybe you can apply next year too :)
May 28 23:16:23 <summatusmentis> well, maybe :)
May 28 23:16:25 <vivia> OT: it's 2am here and I"m so frustrated I can't sleep. And I can't even count sheep, because I'm working on a stupid asp+m$sql project about... sheep... and they stress me out even more
May 28 23:16:55 <summatusmentis> my summer of code will be done at the end of summer :) then I'll maybe be able to focus my time elsewhere
May 28 23:17:04 <sp3000> you could count some other animals
May 28 23:17:06 <sp3000> bugs maybe?
May 28 23:17:27 <vivia> lol, that's another way to stress a developer - counting bugs :)
May 28 23:17:55 <vivia> i can also count (live) mosquitos but that's not quite relaxing either :p
May 28 23:18:39 <summatusmentis> :-D
May 28 23:25:36 <n800m> hey i'm stuck in zelda
May 28 23:25:38 <n800m> help
May 28 23:25:57 <GAN8001> Kill the bad guys.
May 28 23:26:04 <summatusmentis> cmd+q
May 28 23:26:15 <summatusmentis> oh, zelda, wrong platform
May 28 23:26:21 <n800m> hah
May 28 23:26:38 <n800m> the gba emulator is pretty good on the n800
May 28 23:26:41 <n800m> on some games
May 28 23:26:46 <n800m> about half are too slow
May 28 23:27:03 <GAN8001> summatusmentis, out of interest, how often do you have to explain where the Command key is?
May 28 23:27:50 <summatusmentis> not often, I don't help people that often :)
May 28 23:27:59 <GAN8001> Ha, OK.
May 28 23:28:14 <summatusmentis> and usually when I do, I tell them "apple q" or some such thing
May 28 23:28:20 <GAN8001> I help people A LOT, and I don't want to think about how many times I've explain its location.
May 28 23:28:21 <vivia> could be worse... looking for the any key
May 28 23:28:43 <vivia> or taking "any key" too literally and pressing caps lock
May 28 23:29:15 <summatusmentis> does caps lcok not register
May 28 23:29:17 <n800m> eject
May 28 23:29:17 <summatusmentis> ?
May 28 23:29:52 <vivia> usually not, though i guess you could make it ...
May 28 23:30:05 <Navi> Heh
May 28 23:30:07 <n800m> the function key
May 28 23:30:13 <n800m> my favorite
May 28 23:30:15 <Navi> I mapped my caps to control and control to tab
May 28 23:30:19 <Navi> er
May 28 23:30:23 <Navi> control to tab
May 28 23:30:24 <Navi> er
May 28 23:30:27 <Navi> GOD DAMN
May 28 23:30:31 <Navi> control to caps lock
May 28 23:30:35 * GAN8001 pats Navi on the back.
May 28 23:30:41 <GAN8001> Breath . . . type it SLOWLY
May 28 23:30:54 <Navi> So whenever someone's over at my house and tries to hit control, they go "wtf?"
May 28 23:30:58 <GAN8001> I tried to do that for a while
May 28 23:31:07 <GAN8001> but my muscle memory doesn't want to change.
May 28 23:31:21 <Navi> I like it
May 28 23:31:27 <summatusmentis> why would you do that?
May 28 23:31:36 <GAN8001> Caps is closer
May 28 23:31:39 <summatusmentis> I guess easier access
May 28 23:31:45 <Navi> Caps is easier to hit than control
May 28 23:31:51 <vivia> GAN8001: do you have a laptop? THAT's an example of muscle memory nto wanting to change..
May 28 23:31:52 <GAN8001> Less contortionism
May 28 23:31:57 <Navi> and you accidentally hit it a lot AND SOUND LIKE YOU'RE PISSED OFF
May 28 23:31:58 <GAN8001> Ugh
May 28 23:32:00 <GAN8001> Screw laptops
May 28 23:32:01 <summatusmentis> mine would light up all the time
May 28 23:32:07 <GAN8001> They're the worst things in the world
May 28 23:32:10 <summatusmentis> oh really? <3 my macbook
May 28 23:32:16 * GAN8001 has a big, loud, hot, dual G5
May 28 23:32:22 <GAN8001> and a bunch of NITs. ;)
May 28 23:32:32 <Navi> Like twenty of them.
May 28 23:32:33 <n800m> pfft there's no zelda chan on freenode
May 28 23:32:49 <Navi> Freenode isn't much of a gaming network
May 28 23:32:53 <vivia> Navi: how about accidentaly hitting control and ending up giving a command?
May 28 23:32:59 <vivia> Navi: i guess that's worse than typing in caps :)
May 28 23:33:03 <Navi> Nah
May 28 23:33:04 <GAN8001> Zelda isn't really "on topic" for Freenode.
May 28 23:33:07 <summatusmentis> my theory was originally to buy a Z, and use that instead, but this NIT might be finally what I'm looking for in th at regard
May 28 23:33:21 <summatusmentis> the Z never did what I wanted
May 28 23:33:26 <summatusmentis> or not well enough
May 28 23:33:29 <GAN8001> Lot of ex-Z owners about.
May 28 23:33:39 <n800m> there's one on efnet!
May 28 23:33:50 <summatusmentis> they were awesome machines, for their time
May 28 23:33:57 <vivia> efnet?.... is that still alive? :)
May 28 23:33:57 <summatusmentis> now, they're big and out-dated
May 28 23:33:58 <GAN8001> n800m, Freenode is really for free and opensource projects
May 28 23:34:09 <Navi> EFNet is still around
May 28 23:34:18 <Navi> Lotta channels on there
May 28 23:34:22 <Navi> I'm a Rizon guy myself
May 28 23:34:23 <n800m> yeah been on efnet since 98 i think
May 28 23:34:25 <vivia> yikes, that must have been the first irc network i remember
May 28 23:34:43 <vivia> 94-95 ...
May 28 23:34:54 <Navi> But half of my autojoin channels are on Freenode
May 28 23:34:57 <n800m> yeah it's old
May 28 23:35:31 <summatusmentis> I don't have any autojoin channels setup anymore, since I switched to irssi+screen
May 28 23:35:34 <summatusmentis> :-/
May 28 23:35:47 <vivia> i'm only idling around on #amsn for support... and  maybe 1-2 more channels occasionally
May 28 23:35:58 <vivia> summatusmentis: <3 irssi+screen
May 28 23:36:09 <summatusmentis> GAN8001: are you on leopard? check out Visor+SIMBL
May 28 23:36:21 <GAN8001> It's broken
May 28 23:36:30 <GAN8001> I have to activate it twice to get it to focus
May 28 23:36:34 <Navi> I like weechat+screen
May 28 23:36:43 <summatusmentis> GAN8001: what's broken?
May 28 23:36:49 <CrashandDie> Don't you love it how the day before you have to give in your project, you want to add a few modifications that basically brick the whole app...
May 28 23:36:51 <GAN8001> I open it, but it doesn't have focus
May 28 23:37:02 <GAN8001> so text goes into lalaland instead of the terminal.
May 28 23:37:06 <CrashandDie> And then your teacher/boss comes around, seeing how everything goes "Well, it worked a few minutes ago, hang on"
May 28 23:37:11 <Navi> CrashandDie, that's why you either make backups or have revision control
May 28 23:37:15 <summatusmentis> working fine here
May 28 23:37:20 <summatusmentis> and loving it!
May 28 23:37:26 <GAN8001> The way to do it is with irssi-proxy and xchat. :P
May 28 23:37:28 <CrashandDie> Navi, working with git here, but still... It's frustrating
May 28 23:37:34 <Navi> I've had svn set up for a while. Should switch to git
May 28 23:37:44 <Navi> Much too lazy though
May 28 23:37:49 <vivia> hardware projects can be more fun
May 28 23:38:05 <vivia> i once handed it out a few days before it was examined so they could keep it, it worked perfectly
May 28 23:38:08 <Navi> No revision control for hardware projects :(
May 28 23:38:08 <CrashandDie> vivia, it's part hardware, that's the dangerous part :P
May 28 23:38:41 <CrashandDie> Camera + free DV tape == Hardware proof of concept revision control
May 28 23:39:05 <Navi> Lol
May 28 23:39:07 <vivia> during the examination, must have been bad grounding at the lab, but one of the two main ICs just decided to stop working
May 28 23:39:22 <CrashandDie> heh... Don't you love when that happens...
May 28 23:39:35 <summatusmentis> I should make sure my n810 always gets the same address on our home router
May 28 23:39:38 <vivia> fortunately the team next to us had incidentally decided to use the same IC so we borrowed theirs and it worked
May 28 23:40:02 <CrashandDie> Also, notice how the probability of shit happening to you [or the project] tends to 1 proportionally with the importance of the exam
May 28 23:41:20 <n800m> i think efnet is about 99% idling
May 28 23:41:26 <CrashandDie> Hardware revision control would be awesome though... I want to live in the Matrix... git checkout HEAD^1... "C'MON GUYS, WE GOT NEW CAPACITORS"
May 28 23:41:39 <Navi> CrashandDie, indeed it would...
May 28 23:42:12 <GAN8001> Haha
May 28 23:42:14 <CrashandDie> I remember a couple years back, I was passing my electronics degree
May 28 23:42:19 <GAN8001> VR baby!
May 28 23:42:37 <CrashandDie> We had a stupid project, and maybe two days before the exam
May 28 23:43:09 <CrashandDie> We go into the classroom, with our cards at the ready, for the final inspection before the exam... Teacher tells us to go on a workbench
May 28 23:43:50 <CrashandDie> I get to my workbench, some idiot kicks me away, I was just about to hit the switch... I take my card, go to the next bench... The guy plus in his card, flips the switch
May 28 23:44:00 <CrashandDie> 48V drilling through a 5V card
May 28 23:44:15 <vivia> ouch!!
May 28 23:44:29 <CrashandDie> I see a little bit of smoke rising up from the remains, as I see all hope leaving his eyes
May 28 23:44:37 <Navi> woot
May 28 23:44:41 <GAN8001> Ha
May 28 23:45:52 <vivia> i once abandoned a project about serially connecting a 6502 (yeah they were still used until a few years ago) to the PC
May 28 23:46:27 <vivia> for some odd reason, as soon as i connected the 6502's signal ground to the PC's signal ground, the voltage on the 6502 IC would drop to 2.5V
May 28 23:46:40 <CrashandDie> anyone know where this comes from: GLIB CRITICAL ** Gtk - gtk_scrolled_window_add_with_viewport: assertion `GTK_BIN (bin->child)->child == NULL' failed ? Trying to add a Table to a ScrolledWindow
May 28 23:47:37 <CrashandDie> (I'm using the C++ GTK wrappers)
May 28 23:51:55 <n800m> microB is base on firefox, correct?
May 28 23:51:59 <n800m> +d
May 28 23:52:08 <GAN8001> It's mozilla-based
May 28 23:52:12 <n800m> right right
May 28 23:52:21 <GAN8001> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroB
May 28 23:52:55 <CrashandDie> GAN800, wouldn't have an idea ?
May 28 23:53:23 <n800m> ooh there's a divx plugin
May 28 23:53:57 <GAN8001> I fail at GTK, CrashandDie. ;)
May 28 23:54:09 <n800m> fail, crash, die
May 28 23:54:15 <CrashandDie> GAN800, so that's your weak point ? GTK? :P
May 28 23:54:21 <CrashandDie> Mhuwhahahaha, finally found it
May 28 23:54:26 <GAN8001> One of many, yes. :P
May 28 23:54:45 <CrashandDie> GAN800, you do a good job at hiding them then :P
May 28 23:54:55 <GAN8001> Haha
May 28 23:55:00 <GAN8001> When you have enough . . . :D
May 28 23:56:07 <CrashandDie> I asked on #c++ @ gimpnet about half an hour ago... No one dared moving, no join, no leave... Nobody dares answering my question...
May 28 23:57:35 <GAN8001> Hehe
May 28 23:57:46 <GAN8001> You just gotta go through and highlight everybody individually.
May 28 23:58:18 <Navi> or highlight everyone at the same time
May 28 23:58:26 <Navi> They'll really appreciate that
May 28 23:58:59 <GAN8001> A kickban or an answer . . . either way, you'll have closure.
May 28 23:59:46 <CrashandDie> well... They're usually quite helpful
May 28 23:59:52 <CrashandDie> just... Not at 2AM I guess
May 29 00:00:10 <Navi> It's not 2AM in the states :P
May 29 00:00:34 <CrashandDie> god damn it, I have about... 16 hours left before turning in this project, and I still have to write the doc and the paper
May 29 00:00:39 <Navi> heh
May 29 00:04:49 <CrashandDie> "If at first you don't succeed, cheat !"
May 29 00:04:59 <CrashandDie> rewriting the code, brb
May 29 00:05:01 <vivia> i'm off... good night everyone :)
May 29 00:05:22 <n800m> nini
May 29 00:08:32 <GAN8001> lol
May 29 00:08:33 <GAN8001> http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2008/05/phones-no-ubuntu-yes.html
May 29 00:08:57 <GAN8001> Doesn't Ari just always reveal himself to be disturbingly disconnected from reality?
May 29 00:14:09 <Navi> :P
May 29 00:15:05 <Navi> I like Reggie's comment
May 29 00:15:13 <Navi> "I just got the new Asus eeePC (900) with Linux Xandros and I was surprised at how everything was set-up, all the most common apps are there, categorized into tabs. Any end-user won't feel that it is Linux underneath at all."
May 29 00:15:21 <Navi> Feel Linux?
May 29 00:15:57 <n800m> yes, it smells
May 29 00:16:04 <n800m> like sea salt
May 29 00:16:18 <fysa> http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/05/28/mini-bluetooth-keyboard-for-cell-phones/
May 29 00:16:19 <CrashandDie> found the answer :D
May 29 00:17:11 <n800m> 42?
May 29 00:17:53 <Navi> Squishy keyboard
May 29 00:18:46 <fysa> maybe it's small enough to add a hinge to and attach to N800 ;)
May 29 00:18:53 <Navi> The fingers in the picture don't even fit on the home keys :|
May 29 00:18:57 <n800m> duct tap
May 29 00:18:59 <n800m> e
May 29 00:19:04 <Navi> Duct tape solves all
May 29 00:19:11 <n800m> yeah it doesn't look very practical
May 29 00:19:14 <fysa> oo
May 29 00:19:18 <n800m> the foldable one makes more sense
May 29 00:19:19 <fysa> duct tape keyboard around your arm.
May 29 00:19:26 <fysa> type with other arm
May 29 00:20:02 <n800m> and a hotkey for scotty
May 29 00:20:30 <Navi> Too bad the Logic 3 for the PSP was canceled years ago
May 29 00:20:46 <Navi> could have stolen that and stuck it on an N800
May 29 00:21:57 <Navi> Unless it ended up being an IR keyboard
May 29 00:22:36 <CrashandDie> I have no problems typing on the n810 keyboard
May 29 00:22:48 <n800m> -10
May 29 00:24:02 <Navi> I bet you don't
May 29 00:24:40 <wolfspirit> ok having some trouble with my n800.. I got a gsat bluetooth gps receiver and the n800 picks it up fine but just sits on "searching
May 29 00:24:59 <wolfspirit> " for a gps location.. any ideas?  sorry about hitting enter prematurely
May 29 00:28:20 <GAN800> Go outside?
May 29 00:29:02 <wolfspirit> am outside
May 29 00:29:23 <wolfspirit> it picked it up once the first time but maemo mapper locked up on me so I reset the nokia and now nothing...
May 29 00:34:25 <CrashandDie> wolfspirit, if it picked it up once, there's nothing indicating the IT isn't working as it should. Question your GPS Receiver
May 29 00:42:46 <summatusmentis> does anyone have penguinbait's .deb for booting from sd
May 29 00:47:34 <summatusmentis> is there a way to get the file manager to show / instead of ~ ?
May 29 00:47:54 <GAN8001> Symlink, summatusmentis.
May 29 00:48:03 <GAN8001> But it'll break metalayer-crawler
May 29 00:48:08 <GAN8001> I'd just switch to emelfm2
May 29 00:49:23 <summatusmentis> not in extras?
May 29 00:49:43 <GAN800> Google it, don't remember.
May 29 00:49:46 <summatusmentis> :-/ this whole "packages being all over the place" is sort of annoying :)
May 29 00:50:17 <GAN800> You don't even know. ;)
May 29 00:50:34 <GAN800> It's something that's improving lately.
May 29 00:50:51 <GAN8001> But it's been a big issue with maemo for a while now.
May 29 00:51:08 <summatusmentis> yeah, I could see that
May 29 00:51:27 <GAN8001> We just had to shoot down another attempt to make YET ANOTHER place for packages last week. <_<
May 29 00:51:55 <summatusmentis> make another one, and shut down all the others, that's fine
May 29 00:52:08 <GAN8001> X-Fade has been doing some majorly badass work on Extras(-devel)/Garage/Downloads, though, and things are starting to look up.
May 29 00:52:35 <fysa> a repository proxy would be nice.
May 29 00:52:52 <GAN8001> The work now is mostly just shaming developers into shutting down their stupid repos and pushing their stuff to Extras(-devel)
May 29 00:53:08 <GAN8001> fysa, :shudder:
May 29 00:53:23 <summatusmentis> I don't like this maemo downloads thing either
May 29 00:53:28 <GAN8001> I can't imagine how package and version conflicts would be resolved with a setup like that.
May 29 00:53:34 <GAN8001> summatusmentis, don't bother with it
May 29 00:53:36 <GAN8001> There's no need
May 29 00:53:41 <summatusmentis> I want it all in the package manager
May 29 00:53:43 <GAN8001> That's for the retarded consumer-users
May 29 00:53:51 <summatusmentis> that's wher emelfm2 is!
May 29 00:53:54 <GAN8001> The important stuff is all in Extras.
May 29 00:54:09 <GAN8001> Well, there are a few odds and ends . . .
May 29 00:55:23 <summatusmentis> and it doesn't work with afs
May 29 00:55:25 <summatusmentis> :-/
May 29 00:56:15 * fysa mark all as read
May 29 00:57:53 * unixSnob_ just got ssh installed
May 29 00:58:32 <unixSnob_> I normally use the "root" command to get root
May 29 00:58:50 <GAN8001> Somebody needs to poke the FBReader devs into shutting down their repo.
May 29 00:58:50 <befr0d>  if i have two terminals and i try to fullscreen one of them, it always 'fullscreen' the same term
May 29 00:58:56 <unixSnob_> what do folks do to get root via ssh?  do you login as root, then change the password?
May 29 00:59:26 <befr0d> ssh server installer asked me for a new root paasw
May 29 00:59:28 <GAN8001> Just use 'root'
May 29 00:59:38 <GAN8001> There's no benefit to 'ssh root@localhost'
May 29 00:59:57 <summatusmentis> no, actually set a password, if you're gonna be on a network...
May 29 01:00:08 <GAN8001> Well, yes, set a password
May 29 01:00:16 <summatusmentis> and make it a good password
May 29 01:00:28 <GAN8001> But there's no point to using ssh to get root access locally when you have easyroot installed.
May 29 01:00:35 <summatusmentis> that's true
May 29 01:00:47 <fysa> a good password like 'unbreakable'
May 29 01:01:04 <summatusmentis> maybe with some numbers and symbols thrown in there
May 29 01:02:16 <unixSnob_> tried root:root and it didn't take it
May 29 01:02:16 <unixSnob_> what's the default "user" password?
May 29 01:02:16 <unixSnob_> it's probably better if I login as user, and then get root
May 29 01:02:57 <unixSnob_> nice.. passwd worked.. I thought it was going to ask for the old pw first, which would not have worked
May 29 01:03:00 <summatusmentis> unixSnob_: I have no idea what the default user password is, but I just changed it today
May 29 01:03:11 <summatusmentis> oh, that's even better
May 29 01:03:18 <summatusmentis> I didn't know passwd was going to
May 29 01:05:31 <unixSnob_> I also changed it for the user acct.  So now I can ssh in as a user, and only get root if necessary
May 29 01:06:27 <summatusmentis> yeah, that's what I did, as far as I can tell, it doesn't break anything, but I suppose it's possible
May 29 01:06:36 <GAN8001> By default, the user doesn't have a password.
May 29 01:06:49 <summatusmentis> but you can't just hit enter if you ssh in
May 29 01:06:51 <summatusmentis> brb
May 29 01:06:59 <GAN8001> In older releases setting a user password could cause issues
May 29 01:07:14 <GAN8001> seems to not be a problem anymore.
May 29 01:07:30 <unixSnob_> well, it's nice to have zero security in the beginning, but eventually I need to lock things down
May 29 01:07:49 <unixSnob_> So I'm glad to at least have non-default passwords now
May 29 01:10:31 <summatusmentis> woot! irssi+screen on n810!!
May 29 01:10:54 <Navi> woo
May 29 01:11:14 <unixSnob_> is screen the tool that lets you unmount and remount CLI sessions?
May 29 01:11:18 <unixSnob_> what's irssi?
May 29 01:11:26 <GAN8001> lol. . . .
May 29 01:11:36 <summatusmentis> unixSnob_: yes, and an irc client
May 29 01:11:55 <unixSnob_> cool.. I'll have to get that going too
May 29 01:12:16 <unixSnob_> I heard rtorrent works with screen.. so hopefully rtorrent will work on maemo
May 29 01:12:38 <summatusmentis> its nice if youve got an ssh account on a server
May 29 01:14:49 <summatusmentis> no apostrophe on the keyboard? that is gonna bug me
May 29 01:15:08 <summatusmentis> oh wait... i thought it was a comma
May 29 01:15:50 <unixSnob_> Suppose you ssh into a server, and the session breaks because you drive through a tunnel, for example.. will screen automatically unmount for you so you can recover?
May 29 01:16:26 <GAN8001> That's the entire purpose of screen more or less, yes.
May 29 01:16:37 <GAN8001> It's also useful for local sessions
May 29 01:16:40 <summatusmentis> yep! :-)
May 29 01:16:46 <GAN8001> so closing the xterm window doesn't nuke your session.
May 29 01:16:49 <grape> just do screen -R or something to get it back
May 29 01:17:11 <summatusmentis> I use -drr, but yeah
May 29 01:17:24 <unixSnob_> I've used screen like 10 years ago.. and it was not so much for accidental network breaks, but just so I could logoff and go home w/ stuff running
May 29 01:17:29 <grape> yeah, that one ;-)
May 29 01:17:38 <unixSnob_> But vry cool that it's smart to handle network breaks
May 29 01:17:49 <Johnny5> Use the command 'screen -DR'
May 29 01:18:06 <Johnny5> That will disconnect any sessions connected to the screen session, and reconnect you to it.
May 29 01:18:17 <Johnny5> (In case the old session is hung, for example)
May 29 01:19:22 <summatusmentis> oh, that's even cooler, didn't know that
May 29 01:21:56 <Johnny5> Even cooler, you can add a session name to it ('screen -DR irc').  That way, you can disconnect and reconnect to multiple screen sessions (for when you're working on something complex, and need 10 windows for one thing and 10 for another, and want to keep them separate for example)
May 29 01:23:07 <Johnny5> The session-name thing is more useful when you're sharing a screen, though (useful for teaching new people stuff - think a VNC session with multiple users)
May 29 01:23:27 <summatusmentis> interesting... :)
May 29 01:26:44 * unixSnob_ noticed xterm does not allow foreground color changes
May 29 01:27:00 <GAN800> yes it does.
May 29 01:27:11 <GAN800> You're just not paying attention.
May 29 01:27:35 <unixSnob_> Is there a resource file that can be used to force color changes?
May 29 01:27:50 <GAN800> No, there's a settings dialog. . . .
May 29 01:28:17 <summatusmentis> it's under the font thing... hidden
May 29 01:28:59 <unixSnob_> it's interesting that fg color would not be right next to bg color.  Where's fg color hiding?
May 29 01:29:15 <unixSnob_> ah, font
May 29 01:29:28 <GAN800> logically enough, under TEXT settings.
May 29 01:29:28 <summatusmentis> it's under the font setting, where you set size and stuff
May 29 01:30:04 <summatusmentis> that doesn't make sense... it would make more sense for it to be next to background color
May 29 01:30:53 <GAN800> File a bug
May 29 01:31:48 <summatusmentis> meh... i don't care enough :)
May 29 01:32:11 <unixSnob_> GAN800, did you say it can't be done using a resource file (eg. .Xresource or whatever)?
May 29 01:32:57 <summatusmentis> I'm sure it can... just have no idea where it is
May 29 01:33:14 <summatusmentis> _I_ don't
May 29 01:33:18 <GAN800> It _could_ (gconf), but why not use the perfectly accessible settings dialog? :/
May 29 01:33:23 <unixSnob_> np.. I don't need it now.. I was just curious
May 29 01:34:02 <unixSnob_> GAN800, if I get enough time to configure everything, it's much more organized to do it all in the resource file
May 29 01:34:32 <unixSnob_> Resource files will enable you to configure things that aren't even configurable by the apps guis in some cases
May 29 01:36:02 <GAN800> Font color isn't one of them. ;)
May 29 01:36:20 <unixSnob_> on workstations i'll even use the xresource file to alter behaviors, like disable buttons.. not sure if i'll find that useful on the nit yet
May 29 01:36:25 <summatusmentis> is there a calendar program that will sync with google cal?
May 29 01:36:58 <unixSnob_> GAN800 fg color generally is configurable in the xresource file; and I know I've done it for xterm
May 29 01:37:08 <summatusmentis> I srot of wish this keyboard were centered
May 29 01:37:14 <summatusmentis> sort*
May 29 01:37:49 <unixSnob_> summatusmentis: are you on an n810?
May 29 01:37:55 <GAN800> i.e., it's perfectly configurable in the GUI.
May 29 01:38:27 <summatusmentis> unixSnob_: yep :) via screen
May 29 01:39:32 <unixSnob_> GAN800 how do I change the colors for the OSD keyboard?
May 29 01:39:53 <unixSnob_> that's probably something I could do in the resource file, but not the menu
May 29 01:40:24 <GAN800> In the theme.
May 29 01:41:22 <summatusmentis> the dimming on this screen rules... I'm really glad I made this purchase :)
May 29 01:41:39 <unixSnob_> interesting.. and good to know.. but the keyboard color change is linked to other changes
May 29 01:41:57 <unixSnob_> (if i use the theme to change it)
May 29 01:42:01 <summatusmentis> bear with me all, I'll be obsessimg for days
May 29 01:42:16 <GAN800> summatusmentis, you might want to look at advanced-backlight for finner grain control.
May 29 01:42:22 <summatusmentis> :-D
May 29 01:42:25 <GAN800> s/finner/finer/
May 29 01:42:25 <infobot> GAN800 meant: summatusmentis, you might want to look at advanced-backlight for finer grain control.
May 29 01:42:46 <summatusmentis> in the feeds GAN800 ?
May 29 01:43:43 <unixSnob_> I'll certainly look into that.. I find the lowest brightness to be too bright to look at when my eyes are in night vision mode
May 29 01:43:53 <GAN8001> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16531
May 29 01:44:09 <GAN8001> I've been poking rm_you to push it to Extras for months.
May 29 01:44:14 <unixSnob_> Eg. I could not look at this screen while flying a cessna at night, because the lowest setting is bright enough to ruin night vision
May 29 01:48:19 <unixSnob_> anyone used nicotene?
May 29 01:49:43 * n800m smoking
May 29 01:50:44 <summatusmentis> cigarettes are gross...
May 29 01:51:20 <unixSnob_> summatusmentis: try cigars.. much better
May 29 01:51:30 <unixSnob_> that crap doesn't get in your lungs if you smoke em right
May 29 01:51:50 <summatusmentis> meh
May 29 01:52:09 <summatusmentis> they need to just legalize... nvm
May 29 01:52:44 <unixSnob_> have you tried cigars?  they taste good, and they're good for the brain
May 29 01:53:10 <summatusmentis> good for the brain how?
May 29 01:53:23 <n800m> cigars smell bad tho
May 29 01:54:05 <unixSnob_> summatusmentis: read last months Wired mag.  Personally I've noticed they make me more alert and focused
May 29 01:54:10 <unixSnob_> but there's studies to back it
May 29 01:54:52 <unixSnob_> and it's easy to be a very occasional smoker.  They're not addictive for me
May 29 01:54:55 <summatusmentis> hmm... how does that tobacco differ from other tobacco?
May 29 01:55:15 <unixSnob_> summatusmentis: cigar tobacco is smoked differently.  You don't inhale it
May 29 01:55:27 <unixSnob_> So the nicotene enters as a sublingual
May 29 01:55:37 * freelikegnu is happy there is Iwan Ries in Chicago 
May 29 01:55:51 <freelikegnu> very good rolling tobacco
May 29 01:56:19 <summatusmentis> hmm... well, we'll see... I'd try it once...
May 29 01:56:50 <freelikegnu> 400g for about US$20
May 29 01:56:53 <n800m> you're in chicago?
May 29 01:56:58 <n800m> i used to go to that shop all the time
May 29 01:57:01 <n800m> on wabash
May 29 01:57:09 <freelikegnu> yep
May 29 01:57:19 <n800m> nice folks
May 29 01:57:20 <freelikegnu> around the corner from where I work
May 29 01:57:52 <n800m> I NKOW YOU
May 29 01:57:59 <freelikegnu> probable
May 29 01:58:21 <freelikegnu> chicago is like a small town :D
May 29 01:58:31 <n800m> downtown is
May 29 01:58:43 <n800m> not detroit-small, but still
May 29 01:58:47 <freelikegnu> my kind of town
May 29 01:58:57 * unixSnob_ hates when a package isn't simply available using apt-get (adv-backlight)
May 29 01:59:04 <n800m> i always wondered about that sinatra song
May 29 01:59:12 <n800m> was it before the new york one or after
May 29 01:59:16 * freelikegnu boots johnx's debian for the first time
May 29 01:59:17 <n800m> and was it cause of guilt
May 29 01:59:21 <n800m> or fear of al capone
May 29 01:59:25 <johnx> w00!
May 29 01:59:44 <freelikegnu> hmm have to run fsck it tells me
May 29 01:59:49 <summatusmentis> freelikegnu: let me know how it works
May 29 01:59:55 <freelikegnu> so far ok
May 29 02:00:25 <freelikegnu> hmm
May 29 02:00:33 <unixSnob_> what's an "IP Engineer"?
May 29 02:00:37 <freelikegnu> how to ctrl-d
May 29 02:00:40 <GAN8001> unixSnob_, I've been working rm_you over to get it into Extras, but the poor guy's busy busy busy. :)
May 29 02:00:55 <johnx> freelikegnu, what happened?
May 29 02:01:04 <summatusmentis> GAN800: can't you just do it?
May 29 02:01:11 <freelikegnu> says I need to manually run fsck
May 29 02:01:21 <summatusmentis> get access, and do it
May 29 02:01:22 <freelikegnu> or control-d
May 29 02:01:46 <GAN8001> Meh, he's the project admin.
May 29 02:02:00 <GAN8001> I stuck it on Downloads. ;)
May 29 02:02:06 <summatusmentis> alright... that makes sense
May 29 02:02:10 <johnx> freelikegnu, that sounds bad O_o
May 29 02:02:13 <unixSnob_> i'll download the deb package.. just need to recall how to install it.. is it dpkg -i?
May 29 02:02:19 <johnx> I would try untarring that again if I were you
May 29 02:02:21 <summatusmentis> yep
May 29 02:02:30 <summatusmentis> unixSnob_: ^
May 29 02:02:31 <johnx> did you untar it on the n8x0? or on a desktop?
May 29 02:02:49 <unixSnob_> ty
May 29 02:02:56 <GAN8001> johnx, same thing happened to me
May 29 02:02:58 <GAN8001> I ran fsck
May 29 02:03:00 <GAN8001> turned out fine.
May 29 02:03:19 <Navi> same
May 29 02:03:22 <johnx> O_o
May 29 02:03:34 <Navi> except the reason was because I had to force poweroff on debian
May 29 02:03:35 <freelikegnu> I mounted the partition on a linux desktop, opened a terminal and cd the partition then sudo tar -xvjpf
May 29 02:04:59 <johnx> Navi and GAN8001 so it stopped you in the boot process and asked to run fsck manually or hit ctrl+D?
May 29 02:05:06 <freelikegnu> yeah
May 29 02:05:16 <GAN8001> I plugged in a USB keyboard and did what it told me.
May 29 02:05:30 <freelikegnu> I'll reboot and fsck
May 29 02:05:50 <freelikegnu> oh usb kb will work right away?
May 29 02:05:57 <freelikegnu> neato
May 29 02:06:22 <freelikegnu> bbl
May 29 02:12:00 <unixSnob_> can any dosbox users vouch for the performance of it?
May 29 02:12:43 <summatusmentis> whats the point? games?
May 29 02:13:45 <unixSnob_> summatusmentis: development
May 29 02:13:56 <unixSnob_> There is no Ada compiler for maemo
May 29 02:14:24 <unixSnob_> But there are free x86 Ada compilers
May 29 02:14:46 <summatusmentis> not to be rude, whats the point of Ada dev? :)
May 29 02:14:48 <summatusmentis> not to be rude, whats the point of Ada dev? :)
May 29 02:14:51 <summatusmentis> sorry
May 29 02:15:05 <johnx> unixSnob_, is there something wrong with the GNU ada compiler?
May 29 02:15:13 <unixSnob_> summatusmentis: I'm an Ada developer.
May 29 02:15:39 <unixSnob_> johnx: AFAIK, it's not supporting the ARM processor
May 29 02:16:16 <summatusmentis> unixSnob_: what is it used for?
May 29 02:16:16 <unixSnob_> From what I heard in #ada, there is some backend gnat code for the ARM, but it doesn't work.. there are missing key pieces
May 29 02:16:30 <unixSnob_> Eg. there is no runtime engine for the ARM, I think
May 29 02:16:50 <unixSnob_> summatusmentis: Ada is the worlds most reliable language.  I use it to develop weapons systems
May 29 02:17:14 <unixSnob_> Although I'm not going to make weapons w/ the NIT, I just like to be anal about quality
May 29 02:17:40 <summatusmentis> eek.. weapons systems for who?
May 29 02:17:56 <GAN800> DOSBox manages about 16MHz on a good day.
May 29 02:17:56 <unixSnob_> I also know C++, but it's a dirty language that's easy to make mistakes in
May 29 02:18:12 <johnx> I guess you're right on not available for ARM. Just tried to install "gnat" on debian/armel...
May 29 02:18:21 <unixSnob_> summatusmentis: so far for the US, but soon I'll be working for the belgians
May 29 02:19:01 <unixSnob_> johnx: there is a commercial version of gnat for the ARM, but it's a different OS..
May 29 02:19:09 <summatusmentis> unixSnob_: contractor?
May 29 02:19:16 <unixSnob_> So gnat really still needs to be ported in order to work on the nit
May 29 02:19:20 <unixSnob_> summatusmentis: yes, lately
May 29 02:20:33 <unixSnob_> There's no real practical need.. I mean, no lives will depend on the correctness of NIT code.. but I just want to play around with it
May 29 02:20:47 <summatusmentis> I see
May 29 02:21:16 <fysa> live in DC?
May 29 02:21:42 <unixSnob_> who?
May 29 02:22:00 <fysa> just started contracting..  favorite part is riding the Metro. ;)
May 29 02:22:26 <fysa> no weapons though.  just data quality.
May 29 02:22:31 <unixSnob_> yeah, I'm looking forward to public transportation in europe
May 29 02:22:48 <unixSnob_> my last gig was almost in DC
May 29 02:23:07 <unixSnob_> pay was 75/hr.. but I suppose that's low for that area
May 29 02:23:20 <unixSnob_> s/was/would have been/
May 29 02:23:20 <infobot> unixSnob_ meant: pay would have been 75/hr.. but I suppose that's low for that area
May 29 02:23:31 <fysa> not quite as clean/useful as Hong Kong subway, but best I've seen in the US so far..
May 29 02:24:17 <unixSnob_> fysa: it's impressive enough that it exists in the US
May 29 02:24:23 <fysa> exactly :)
May 29 02:25:59 <unixSnob_> interesting that dosbox is 16MHz.. I mean, all these dos games are supported.  Are they playable?
May 29 02:26:47 <GAN800> Yes
May 29 02:27:16 <fysa> just need a USB -> gameport adapter ;)
May 29 02:27:43 * johnx remembers the game/midi port :)
May 29 02:27:52 <unixSnob_> boooyaaa!  adv-backlight dims much more than the stock tool.. outstanding!
May 29 02:28:43 <GAN800> Just need to figure out Nokia's container setup for their stock applet. . . .
May 29 02:28:53 <unixSnob_> i'll be able to check my email at 2am w/out blowing my eyes out
May 29 02:30:39 * unixSnob_ wishes the n800 would have simply used a physical thumbwheel for the brightness
May 29 02:30:48 <summatusmentis> oh, but blowing your eyes out is more fun!
May 29 02:31:36 <unixSnob_> i've burned my retina enough times w/ this thing.. wake up at 3am to take an overseas call, and forget that it's on medium brightness
May 29 02:31:53 <GAN800> Dedicated brightness whell? wasteful
May 29 02:32:11 <GAN800> Rather have it for scroll.
May 29 02:32:13 <unixSnob_> I got in the habit of facing it away from me, and lighting the walls first until my eyes adjust
May 29 02:32:13 <fysa> install 'motion' and keep the webcam popped out ;)
May 29 02:32:37 <GAN800> Scroll wheel would be awesome.
May 29 02:32:38 <n800m> so what emulator are there for maemo? is there an amiga one?
May 29 02:32:42 <n800m> +s
May 29 02:33:06 <unixSnob_> n800m: there's garnetvm
May 29 02:33:19 <n800m> yeah, i know that one
May 29 02:33:21 <GAN800> There are tons. see pupnik.de, Downloads/Extras and itT Gaming
May 29 02:33:29 <fysa> there's an Amiga emu.
May 29 02:33:37 <n800m> there is?
May 29 02:33:40 <unixSnob_> atari 2600?  I could use that one
May 29 02:33:56 <GAN800> Stick a scroll wheel on the top right of the device.
May 29 02:33:58 <n800m> there's a lot os music software for atari/amiga/c64
May 29 02:34:10 <n800m> maybe it'll run in an emu
May 29 02:35:02 <fysa> couple linux music apps that compile
May 29 02:35:37 <n800m> i had PDa running but i can't use it without a keyboard
May 29 02:35:47 <n800m> and a little tracker that couldn't make a peep so far
May 29 02:36:28 <n800m> i can't find the amiga one :/
May 29 02:36:30 <fysa> I can't think of the name, starts with an H.
May 29 02:36:44 <fysa> hydrogen.
May 29 02:36:49 <n800m> ok
May 29 02:37:08 <fysa> http://www.hydrogen-music.org/?p=screenshots
May 29 02:37:20 <fysa> slightly complex for our screensize though
May 29 02:37:26 <unixSnob_> nice!  there IS an atari 2600 emulator!
May 29 02:37:36 <n800m> omg that looks so sweet
May 29 02:38:10 <n800m> unixSnob link?
May 29 02:38:27 <n800m> btw - http://www.morganleahrecords.com/mooglecharm/programs.html
May 29 02:39:01 <unixSnob_> http://pupnik.de/software.html
May 29 02:39:32 <n800m> those are all maemo?
May 29 02:39:37 <n800m> omg
May 29 02:39:41 * n800m faints
May 29 02:40:01 <unixSnob_> interesting.. so there's a PalmOS emulator (POSE), and a Garnet VM.  what's the diff?
May 29 02:42:19 * unixSnob_ would like to see some iPhone ripoff tools.. like the photo viewer
May 29 02:42:41 <fysa> Canola?
May 29 02:42:53 <johnx> unixSnob_, open source vs closed source?
May 29 02:43:10 <unixSnob_> damn.. I never should have dumped King's Quest for the Apple 2 :(
May 29 02:48:21 <n800m> have you found the deb for the amiga emu?
May 29 02:48:43 <n800m> oh
May 29 02:48:45 <n800m> nm
May 29 02:51:39 <unixSnob_> johnx: perhaps.. guess I'll have to try both
May 29 02:51:52 <johnx> consensus is that garnetvm is farther along
May 29 02:52:00 <johnx> but no one knows what the plan is for it
May 29 02:52:11 <johnx> it's free for now but there's apparently an expiration date (?!)
May 29 02:54:26 <n800m> i reaqlly wish the underscore key were on the first screen of the kb
May 29 02:54:29 <unixSnob_> bastards
May 29 02:55:42 * unixSnob_ considers using the adv-backlight CLI to schedule a cronjob to dim to the lowest at 12am
May 29 02:56:09 <freelikegnu> bak
May 29 02:56:22 <freelikegnu> aw an orphaned inode
May 29 02:57:52 <freelikegnu> :o
May 29 02:58:14 <n800m> fysa, do you know if anyone compiled hydrogen yet?
May 29 02:58:46 * freelikegnu reboots johnx debian :D
May 29 02:59:07 <freelikegnu> this is great, all of my other machines run xfce :D
May 29 02:59:36 * freelikegnu cheers the mouse
May 29 02:59:42 <johnx> :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 29 02:59:56 2008