**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 05 02:59:57 2008
Jun 05 03:00:03 <chi800> what happens if i cut one of the power pins?
Jun 05 03:00:22 <chi800> could it still work?
Jun 05 03:06:04 <chi800> icon still shows up but nada id
Jun 05 03:08:18 <Dekaritae> I am trying to update the "Operating System" in the Application Manager, and it tells me it can't because packages are missing. Specifically libglade2-0 libvte4 makedev and libvte-common
Jun 05 03:08:49 <chi800> should a wait bicon change to something else once i click host or after i connect/refresh?
Jun 05 03:10:46 <GAN800> Dekaritae, turn off red pill.
Jun 05 03:10:51 <Dekaritae> What
Jun 05 03:10:53 <GAN800> That's not an update.
Jun 05 03:11:08 <GAN800> Just a good way to make your install unbootable.
Jun 05 03:11:17 <Dekaritae> Explains?
Jun 05 03:11:48 <GAN800> It installs coreutils == non-bootable.
Jun 05 03:12:01 <Dekaritae> Why is it there
Jun 05 03:12:10 <GAN800> You turned on Red Pill. You should never see that package.
Jun 05 03:12:18 <Dekaritae> I did not
Jun 05 03:12:35 <GAN800> You did, or you wouldn't see it.
Jun 05 03:12:51 <Dekaritae> I purchase this device secondhand
Jun 05 03:13:03 <Dekaritae> Assuming the prior owner did such
Jun 05 03:13:05 <GeneralAntilles> OK, then the previous owner turned it on.
Jun 05 03:13:10 <GeneralAntilles> Either way, it's on. ;)
Jun 05 03:13:32 <GeneralAntilles> To turn it off, add a new repository with url "matrix" and tap cancel
Jun 05 03:13:34 <GeneralAntilles> then tap Blue
Jun 05 03:13:37 <GeneralAntilles> and all will be well again.
Jun 05 03:14:27 <Dekaritae> Okay
Jun 05 03:14:38 <Dekaritae> Yes, that makes sense
Jun 05 03:15:20 <GeneralAntilles> It's a meta-package either for the SDK or maybe SSU testing or something
Jun 05 03:15:21 <GeneralAntilles> Dunno
Jun 05 03:47:24 <chi800> can i associate mp3 files with canola?
Jun 05 04:10:47 <kulve> chi800: I guess you can edit the .desktop files in /usr/share/applications/hildon. The mimetypes per application are listed there
Jun 05 04:11:33 <chi800> cool, thanks
Jun 05 04:29:28 <lopz> night
Jun 05 06:59:29 <Mikho> would somebody know anything about HildonDesktopPopupMenu? Like how to use it etc.
Jun 05 06:59:47 <Mikho> http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/libhildondesktop/HildonDesktopPopupMenu.html this is not very descriptive
Jun 05 07:07:06 <Mikho> how do I create one? there's no _new() function or anything
Jun 05 07:16:13 <trickie|work> morning
Jun 05 07:24:08 <dneary> morning trickie|work
Jun 05 07:25:35 <trickie|work> dneary: howdy
Jun 05 07:53:21 <Mikho> https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/branches/hildon-desktop/karoliina-safe-mode/libhildondesktop/hildon-desktop-popup-window.h look at this... why is there a G_BEGIN_DECLS at the end of the file?
Jun 05 07:54:01 <Mikho> Am I the first to use this interface?
Jun 05 07:55:03 <hrw> morning
Jun 05 07:59:34 <Mikho> https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/branches/hildon-desktop/karoliina-safe-mode/libhildondesktop/hildon-desktop-popup-menu.h The same complaint for this too
Jun 05 08:05:09 <j_a_v_n> hi! Does anybody know how to change the subtitles encoding for mplayer on maemo? I've tried converting the subs to utf8 from iso8859-7 but it can't play both. Thanks
Jun 05 08:08:40 <hrw> j_a_v_n: -subcp=iso8859-7 maybe
Jun 05 08:10:18 <j_a_v_n> hrw,  i'm a newbie. you mean executing mplayer on maemo like mplayer -subcp=iso8859-7  on x-term?
Jun 05 08:12:23 <hrw> or set "subcp=iso8859-7" in mlayer config file
Jun 05 08:13:04 <j_a_v_n> would you know maybe where it is located? Thanks for your help
Jun 05 08:13:27 <RST38h> All right, preliminary version: http://fms.komkon.org/Maemo/
Jun 05 08:13:35 <RST38h> It is very very alpha though
Jun 05 08:14:09 <Jaffa> RST38h: is it showing everything or just Section: user/*
Jun 05 08:14:09 <Jaffa> ?
Jun 05 08:14:16 <RST38h> Everything
Jun 05 08:14:23 <RST38h> Disregard the second query line
Jun 05 08:14:59 <Jaffa> I'd probably suggest that should be an optional "advanced" mode, since most people can't install non user/ packages in App Mgr
Jun 05 08:15:09 <RST38h> There will be
Jun 05 08:15:34 <Jaffa> Ah cool.
Jun 05 08:15:38 <j_a_v_n> hrw: nevermind,i'll find it and try what you proposed. Thanks again. You all have a nice day
Jun 05 08:19:01 <X-Fade_> RST38h: I think the idea is cool, but tends to hide the underlying problem.
Jun 05 08:19:30 <X-Fade_> We really need to work towards some kind of distribution, because this is the beginning of a dependency hell :)
Jun 05 08:20:50 <Jaffa> Indeed. My worry is that by hiding the problem, the impetus for fixing it goes away and things just get worse and worse until it gets so bad it *has* to be fixed, and it's then a bigger job. I've certainly seen a lot of that in my day job
Jun 05 08:21:55 <RST38h> X-Fade: this is experimental stuff
Jun 05 08:22:25 <RST38h> X-Fade: the idea is to find the best way to represent repository contents to the user
Jun 05 08:22:28 <X-Fade_> RST38h: I know and I don't want to use stop energy here ;)
Jun 05 08:22:53 <RST38h> In the final version, a lot of results you are seeing will be hidden unless you explicitely request "see all" mode
Jun 05 08:22:58 <X-Fade_> RST38h: Sure, it can even be used when we do have a proper repository.
Jun 05 08:23:25 <Jaffa> RST38h: suggest some funky script.aculo.us effects to have some wow factor :-)
Jun 05 08:23:33 <RST38h> And stuff that have potential for conflicts will be highlighted with warning signs
Jun 05 08:23:44 <RST38h> Jaffa: it should work on the tablet
Jun 05 08:24:02 <RST38h> Jaffa: i.e. the most spectacular thing you can expect is folding entries
Jun 05 08:24:34 <Jaffa> RST38h: fair enough (although IME script.aculo.us isn't too slow on microb)
Jun 05 08:25:24 <RST38h> X-Fade: My problem with the one-repository-or-bust approach Quim appears to be sticking with is that it is a social problem not a technical one
Jun 05 08:26:03 <RST38h> X-Fade: And social problems tend to have no real solutions and thus continue for years. You just can't make *everybody* use single repo, no matter what you do
Jun 05 08:26:08 <Jaffa> I think there have been technical problems with the extras barrier to entry, but I think it's also an education issue. People don't understand why it's bad.
Jun 05 08:26:14 <X-Fade_> RST38h: Well look at Debian. There is a central repository and all kinds of projects have their own repos.
Jun 05 08:26:24 <Jaffa> RST38h: oh, we could - make it so there's no UI for additional repos ;-)
Jun 05 08:26:25 <RST38h> X-Fade: yep
Jun 05 08:26:30 <X-Fade_> But at least the basic quality software is in the central one ;)
Jun 05 08:26:35 <RST38h> Jaffa: iPhone way? :)
Jun 05 08:26:50 <RST38h> X-Fade: Still, there is alot of software that is not even in repos
Jun 05 08:27:10 <RST38h> BTW, my original idea was to provide a one-click deb upload for such software
Jun 05 08:27:12 <X-Fade_> RST38h: Yes. And that is bad :)
Jun 05 08:27:12 <Jaffa> RST38h: slightly less restrictive (you could always have a package in extras which installed your extra repo in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/)
Jun 05 08:28:08 <RST38h> Jaffa: umgh
Jun 05 08:28:21 * Jaffa still thinks his "polling something for updates and auto-upload" would help a lot of people. They set up they want the uploading, and then just build debs and copy them to their website. Basic QA checks are done automatically (and possibly peer reviewed) and then it's auto-put into extras if it passes.
Jun 05 08:28:31 <RST38h> X-Fage: We have got pupnik who for some reason is averse to putting his stuff in repos =)
Jun 05 08:29:06 <RST38h> Jaffa: Yea, but this relies on the stuff staying at the same locaiton under the sme name
Jun 05 08:29:07 <X-Fade_> RST38h: That is because he is unsure of the quality of the packages. IIRC.
Jun 05 08:29:36 <RST38h> X-Fade: His packages behave better than Canola or OpenSSH
Jun 05 08:29:47 <X-Fade_> RST38h: Sure, tell him that ;)
Jun 05 08:30:25 <Jaffa> RST38h: true
Jun 05 08:30:47 <Jaffa> And we've got extras-devel now at least for people who don't think their software is "good enough" for extras
Jun 05 08:54:21 <jldiaz> hi
Jun 05 08:54:47 <jldiaz> I've downloaded remind and compiled it in scratchbox. All went ok.
Jun 05 08:55:03 <jldiaz> now I have a binary remind, which I can copy to my NIT and runs without problem
Jun 05 08:55:07 <jldiaz> my question is...
Jun 05 08:55:25 <jldiaz> where can I find documentation about packaging the result into a .deb?
Jun 05 08:56:00 <X-Fade_> jldiaz: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/making_application_packages.html
Jun 05 08:56:08 <jldiaz> thanks X-Fade_ !
Jun 05 08:56:45 <X-Fade_> jldiaz: And this one: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/creating_a_debian_package.html
Jun 05 08:58:31 <jldiaz> Ok, I'll read that, but as a quick question...
Jun 05 08:58:54 <jldiaz> does it takes much effort/time to write all neccessary stuff in deb/ ?
Jun 05 08:59:14 <jldiaz> figuring the dependencies and so on? or is it mostly automated?
Jun 05 09:01:58 <jldiaz> oh, forget my question
Jun 05 09:02:02 <X-Fade_> jldiaz: That depends on you application. ;)
Jun 05 09:02:03 <jldiaz> I can see it is mostly automated
Jun 05 09:02:08 <X-Fade_> yeah.
Jun 05 09:02:39 <jldiaz> my app is a console app, which does not use any fancy library (not even curses)
Jun 05 09:03:06 <jldiaz> so I figure that the default scripts made by dh_make would be enough
Jun 05 09:03:06 <X-Fade_> Well, then packaging will not be hard.
Jun 05 09:04:11 <jldiaz> At the very minimum, I should provide a description, I guess
Jun 05 09:05:18 <jldiaz> dh_make can figure itself the dependencies?
Jun 05 09:09:06 <wnd> once you have set source dependencies it should
Jun 05 09:37:32 <Mikho> how can I find out runtime the root hildon window size?
Jun 05 09:37:58 <Mikho> I wouldn't want to hardcode it to the N810 screen size
Jun 05 09:44:51 <hrw> why you need it?
Jun 05 09:45:41 <Mikho> so that I can adjust the position of a popup window so it doesn't go out of the monitor screen
Jun 05 09:45:54 <KotCzarny> it's a wm's job
Jun 05 09:46:15 <KotCzarny> (window manager)
Jun 05 09:51:18 <Mikho> well, hildon_desktop_popup_window_popup asks for a callback function that would adjust the window position
Jun 05 09:51:33 <Mikho> so I'm writing a such function for it
Jun 05 09:52:58 <KotCzarny> have you considered that your app would be useful on regular pc too?
Jun 05 09:53:27 <KotCzarny> s/would/could
Jun 05 09:53:38 <Mikho> maybe not, but on later internet tablet models that have different screen resolution
Jun 05 09:54:33 <KotCzarny> as for root windows size, just use x11 function querying window params
Jun 05 09:55:49 <Mikho> hmm, how do I do that?
Jun 05 09:56:26 <KotCzarny> that was long time ago..
Jun 05 09:58:42 <eocanha> Mikho: have you tried this?
Jun 05 09:58:45 <eocanha> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdk/unstable/GdkScreen.html
Jun 05 10:00:02 <Mikho> I just found that
Jun 05 10:41:34 <SaineTarasind> Hi there
Jun 05 10:42:35 <SaineTarasind> has anybody out there running lyx on chinook ?
Jun 05 10:50:31 <pekuja> I'm having a problem trying to apt-get update inside scratchbox
Jun 05 10:50:57 <pekuja> "I get |Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'"
Jun 05 10:51:17 <pekuja> I googled for this and found some pointers about fixing /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf but it didn't seem to help at all
Jun 05 10:51:46 <pekuja> or, nsswitch.conf was already like the solution seemed to say
Jun 05 10:51:54 <Jaffa> pekuja: check your /etc/resolv.conf in scratchbox
Jun 05 10:51:55 <pekuja> I'm running this on Ubuntu hardy
Jun 05 10:52:37 <pekuja> hmm, seems to have nameserver set to 127.0.0.1
Jun 05 10:52:42 <Jaffa> yup
Jun 05 10:54:10 <pekuja> now it seems to work
Jun 05 10:54:19 <pekuja> it prints this out a few times though:
Jun 05 10:54:19 <pekuja> qemu: uncaught target signal 2 (Interrupt) - exiting
Jun 05 10:54:27 <pekuja> but seems to work fine otherwise
Jun 05 10:54:52 <Mikho> all right, resolved the root window size problem
Jun 05 10:55:24 <pekuja> do you know what that error message could mean? it's weird, apt-get keeps on going despite those errors
Jun 05 10:55:32 <Mikho> just call gdk_drawable_get_size on gdk_get_default_root_window()
Jun 05 11:10:50 <pekuja> how can I load a kernel module on an N810?
Jun 05 11:10:53 <pekuja> or gain root access
Jun 05 11:12:00 <johnx> insmod /path/to/foo.ko
Jun 05 11:12:08 <johnx> ~easyroot
Jun 05 11:12:09 <infobot> i guess easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com
Jun 05 11:13:11 <pekuja> so there's no way to load a module without installing an extra app?
Jun 05 11:13:37 <johnx> you could use the linux flasher to put your n810 in r&d mode
Jun 05 11:13:41 <johnx> then use sudo gainroot
Jun 05 11:14:02 <pekuja> hmn, ok
Jun 05 11:14:10 <johnx> the easyroot app just makes a small modification to the gainroot script IIRC
Jun 05 11:14:58 <pekuja> cute, I tried sudo gainroot without setting the device into r&d mode, it says "Enable RD mode if you want to break your device"
Jun 05 11:15:45 <johnx> right, so most methods to "get root" just consist of a postinst script in a .deb package that changes the gainroot script to not check whether the r&d mode bit is set
Jun 05 11:20:20 <pekuja> hah
Jun 05 11:26:35 <Mikho> would somebody know what the error "maemo-launcher: error rising the oom shield for pid=1603 status=5632" means?
Jun 05 11:26:53 <BugBlue> oom = memory
Jun 05 11:27:03 <BugBlue> looks like out of memory shield
Jun 05 11:27:13 <Mikho> out of mana
Jun 05 11:29:18 <Mikho> I don't think I'm out of memory
Jun 05 11:30:51 <AStorm> you may be
Jun 05 11:31:09 <AStorm> actually, oom shield is anti-oom protection
Jun 05 11:31:36 <AStorm> there is an oom controller in maemo, which protects vital processes from being killed
Jun 05 11:31:49 <AStorm> or bothered by it
Jun 05 11:34:54 <Mikho> hmm, the error appears even before i run my app
Jun 05 11:35:28 <AStorm> which is correct
Jun 05 11:35:32 <AStorm> it shouldn't be shielded
Jun 05 11:37:00 <Mikho> okay, maybe I'll just ignore the error
Jun 05 11:37:52 <Mikho> would somebody know which interfaces I should use if I want a popup menu in my app?
Jun 05 11:38:29 <Mikho> hildon_desktop_popup_menu looks like it's almost halfway done
Jun 05 11:50:43 <lopz> hi
Jun 05 11:55:22 <johnx> hmm...so garnetvm pretty much makes the n800 the cheapest (and fastest?) palm os device in the world, doesn't it?
Jun 05 11:55:55 <Saviq> lol
Jun 05 12:01:12 <RST38h> AStorm,johnx: http://fms.komkon.org/Maemo
Jun 05 12:01:30 <RST38h> [it is in early alpha]
Jun 05 12:02:09 <johnx> so right now, it's just hooked up to exrtas?
Jun 05 12:02:48 <johnx> pretty darn slick
Jun 05 12:03:01 <johnx> so you put it on your own host after all?
Jun 05 12:03:33 <RST38h> It is hooked up to a list of repos I typed into db
Jun 05 12:03:43 <RST38h> yea, nobody volunteered
Jun 05 12:05:01 <johnx> it looks nice
Jun 05 12:05:11 <johnx> are you interested in suggestions?
Jun 05 12:05:57 <KotCzarny> rst, volunteered to what?
Jun 05 12:07:06 * johnx sleeps
Jun 05 12:08:35 <pupnik> johnx: have they implmented screen rotation in garnet yet?
Jun 05 12:08:37 <pupnik> oh sory
Jun 05 12:08:53 <pupnik> RST38h: is this like gronmayer?
Jun 05 12:09:24 * lcuk_work burps
Jun 05 12:09:32 <lcuk_work> hi folks
Jun 05 12:09:41 <pupnik> lcuk o/
Jun 05 12:09:50 <florian> hi lcuk_work
Jun 05 12:09:51 <Jaffa> pupnik: It's like gronmayer in that it indexes repos, it then presents install links for every package; rather than the repo
Jun 05 12:09:58 <KotCzarny> hi lcuk
Jun 05 12:10:13 <lcuk_work> hi kot :) not seen you on since i arrived back.  hows tricks
Jun 05 12:10:29 <KotCzarny> heh
Jun 05 12:10:33 <KotCzarny> in nwn loop again
Jun 05 12:11:14 <KotCzarny> how was the lt?
Jun 05 12:11:47 <lcuk_work> ltag was amazing and informative - its given me a chance to test and expand and find things which work
Jun 05 12:11:57 <pupnik> was great meeting ppl.  berlin totally charmed me
Jun 05 12:11:59 <lcuk_work> and i met some great people :)
Jun 05 12:12:22 <pupnik> that tiergarten cafe/pizza place ruled
Jun 05 12:12:31 <lcuk_work> pupnik, the weather really helped make it easy going out and having a great time
Jun 05 12:12:47 <KotCzarny> are there any site with photos?
Jun 05 12:13:04 <KotCzarny> *is
Jun 05 12:13:19 <lcuk_work> therres a few around, but tbh i was more interested in talking to people rather than getting them to pose, and a lot of ppl were the same
Jun 05 12:13:28 <KotCzarny> :)
Jun 05 12:13:32 <lcuk_work> err ive got a link on home computer to at least one set
Jun 05 12:13:43 <lcuk_work> but since im not there its a bit tough
Jun 05 12:14:08 <KotCzarny> ok, site with summary/ideas would be nice too :)
Jun 05 12:16:37 <lcuk_work> theres again a few about google gives good things for "maemo linuxtag" quils notes are deffo there
Jun 05 12:16:54 <lcuk_work> there is also audio for the first 2 hours including my absolute fail
Jun 05 12:17:09 <lcuk_work> quims *
Jun 05 12:17:15 <KotCzarny> fail?
Jun 05 12:17:43 <lcuk_work> yes, public speaking is not for the codemonkey :)
Jun 05 12:17:47 <KotCzarny> :)
Jun 05 12:17:50 <KotCzarny> true
Jun 05 12:18:04 <KotCzarny> but it's a matter of practice
Jun 05 12:18:06 <KotCzarny> isn't it?
Jun 05 12:18:15 <lcuk_work> but ive had my head dipped now, it can only get better
Jun 05 12:18:43 <lcuk_work> exactly, i managed to convey everything i needed to to the people who mattered anyway
Jun 05 12:19:28 <lcuk_work> right, ill catch up with you later and have a proper chat
Jun 05 12:19:30 <KotCzarny> :)
Jun 05 12:19:36 * KotCzarny nods
Jun 05 12:19:57 <lcuk_work> cyas in a bit
Jun 05 12:20:27 <pupnik> i hadn't realized how much stuff florian boor is involved in
Jun 05 12:21:55 <KotCzarny> who is florian boor?
Jun 05 12:23:33 <pupnik> gave a talk, works on openembedded
Jun 05 12:23:59 <pupnik> i really appreciated lardman's thoughtful comments.  he's got a pretty balanced view of things IMO
Jun 05 12:24:25 <KotCzarny> :)
Jun 05 12:25:22 <pupnik> and his girlfriend has great taste in music :P
Jun 05 12:25:34 <pupnik> (wife?) dunno
Jun 05 12:26:10 <Jaffa> lardman'd definitely be one of the people I'd like to see nominated if we ever held Community Council elections.
Jun 05 12:26:32 <florian> KotCzarny: guess ;)
Jun 05 12:26:52 <KotCzarny> wouldn't that limit his work on "real stuff" ?
Jun 05 12:27:05 <KotCzarny> time resources are limited usually
Jun 05 12:27:06 <KotCzarny> :)
Jun 05 12:27:17 <Jaffa> KotCzarny: I'd hope that my Community Council idea wouldn't really be a time sink.
Jun 05 12:27:26 <pupnik> i liked it
Jun 05 12:27:59 <pupnik> it's a way of community choosing members who we think should have more standing
Jun 05 12:28:20 <pupnik> like a way to positively weight their comments
Jun 05 12:28:24 <pupnik> afaict
Jun 05 12:28:38 <Jaffa> Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it.
Jun 05 12:29:41 <Jaffa> qgil's said loads of times recently "the community should decide", but there's no way anybody can say what "the community" wants: there's loads of discussion, but no-one with the authority to sum it up and draw conclusions. If the community elected people to have that power, I think it'd help progress things more
Jun 05 12:29:55 <RST38h> pupnik: More or less, but can be operated from the tablet and gives a fuller view
Jun 05 12:30:02 <pupnik> nice job RST38h
Jun 05 12:30:12 <pupnik> was just pulling up blank pages for me a minute ago though
Jun 05 12:31:40 <KotCzarny> :)
Jun 05 12:36:40 <pupnik> Jaffa: would it be sensible to make a taxonomy of maemo areas of expertise, and allow the community vote on members, and assign those (via checkboxes) to different ppl?  Not sure if that's doable or a good idea...
Jun 05 12:39:58 <Jaffa> pupnik: Hmm, not sure either. One immediate problem I can see is deciding what topic a particular area falls under; but that's "just" a case of designing a good taxonomy (not easy). For example, one thing I'd like to see the Council do is lay out the process for the brainstorm which is currently underway, ask for comments but otherwise drive it through, agree with qgil and then say "*this* is what we want the brainstorm to produce, let's go!"
Jun 05 12:40:45 <sp3000> mmm process
Jun 05 12:41:32 * pupnik shrugs
Jun 05 12:42:44 * sp3000 whistles
Jun 05 12:44:42 <pupnik> To me there don't seem be very many people in the community who seem to have enough overview and expertise to make balanced/wise suggestions.
Jun 05 12:44:55 <RST38h> Anybody knows how to make twoHTML spans align to the left and right margins of the same line?
Jun 05 12:44:59 <pupnik> About core components.
Jun 05 12:45:24 <Jaffa> RST38h: with or without an additional div?
Jun 05 12:45:39 <RST38h> without
Jun 05 12:45:40 <RST38h> same line
Jun 05 12:46:39 <Jaffa> The easiest way is to display: block them, text-align: left and right and then set the right one to have a negative margin of about 1em. Bit hacky, though
Jun 05 12:47:17 <RST38h> urgh
Jun 05 12:47:23 * RST38h will go with a table instead
Jun 05 12:47:43 <KotCzarny> i just use tables..
Jun 05 12:47:48 <KotCzarny> yeah
Jun 05 12:54:42 <mgedmin> negative margins?  just put the right-aligning one before the left-aligning one, iirc
Jun 05 12:54:51 <mgedmin> I hate that reversal of order, by the way
Jun 05 12:55:18 <KotCzarny> css hacks usually break :)
Jun 05 12:55:21 <Jaffa> mgedmin: that's the other way, and float it right, instead of text-aligning it.
Jun 05 12:55:23 <KotCzarny> tables are stable
Jun 05 12:55:24 <KotCzarny> ;)
Jun 05 12:55:55 <Jaffa> But you've broken the semantic ordering and there can be problems with wrapping and stuff at some point later. It's better than the -ve margin, though
Jun 05 12:56:14 <KotCzarny> margins are buggy
Jun 05 12:56:18 <KotCzarny> unfortunatelly
Jun 05 12:56:26 <KotCzarny> in one widely used browser
Jun 05 12:56:32 <Jaffa> Roll on IE8
Jun 05 12:56:36 <KotCzarny> well, not it one
Jun 05 12:56:42 <KotCzarny> ie8? O.o
Jun 05 12:56:57 <Jaffa> Supposedly much better on standards than 6 or 7; but I've not tried it yet
Jun 05 12:56:59 <KotCzarny> i haven't checked ie7 still
Jun 05 12:57:00 <KotCzarny> :)
Jun 05 12:57:12 <Jaffa> IE7's a bit better; not a lot though
Jun 05 13:02:41 <Jaffa> WTF?! Is FBReader not in extras?
Jun 05 13:03:26 <RST38h> FBReader has its own repo
Jun 05 13:03:42 <mgedmin> sadly
Jun 05 13:04:04 <Jaffa> Oh FFS
Jun 05 13:09:18 <Cptnodegard> pat pat
Jun 05 13:09:21 <Cptnodegard> it'll all be ok
Jun 05 13:09:21 <KotCzarny> fun for seniors?
Jun 05 13:09:51 <Cptnodegard> maemo bingo?
Jun 05 13:14:42 <dbbddbdb> Did anybody install *and* update Debian on N800?  Mine stopped showing Xfce (only a text login), although the X server is running (xclock renders properly into the framebuffer)
Jun 05 13:17:18 <kup> hi. is there way to make a camera shot from command line?
Jun 05 13:18:01 <tmpsantos> kup: write a python script to do that
Jun 05 13:18:29 <Schubidu> hi
Jun 05 13:19:04 <tmpsantos> kup: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_camera_api_bora.html
Jun 05 13:19:16 <kup> tmpsantos: thx :)
Jun 05 13:20:19 <Schubidu> does an public beta of diablo already exist ?
Jun 05 13:20:56 <Jaffa> Not officially. The repo is up, and password protected. The password is apparently trivial.
Jun 05 13:21:48 <Schubidu> is it already usable ?
Jun 05 13:23:49 * Jaffa hasn't tried. It works: there's a thread on ITT about it.
Jun 05 13:25:46 <Schubidu> btw im new to the n800 (but with a strong unix background) , so sorry if i ask some stupid questions
Jun 05 13:26:07 <Schubidu> which app you recommend for irc on the nokia ?
Jun 05 13:27:56 <Schubidu> and has someone abiword stable runnnig on his os2008 or lyx ?
Jun 05 13:28:51 <hrw> Schubidu: for irc - xchat
Jun 05 13:28:55 <hrw> ~xchat-maemo
Jun 05 13:28:56 <infobot> well, xchat-maemo is X-Chat for OS2008 is done by skyhusker and can be fetched from http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/ and should be in 'extras' soon
Jun 05 13:33:42 <Schubidu> thanks
Jun 05 13:39:40 <Schubidu> il be back soon
Jun 05 13:48:39 <Schubiddu> re
Jun 05 13:48:59 <Schubiddu> now with xchat :-)
Jun 05 13:49:05 <Schubiddu> thanks again
Jun 05 13:51:45 <lardman> "morning"
Jun 05 13:51:57 <Schubiddu> hi
Jun 05 13:59:45 <Schubiddu> has someone already used pptp on his nokia ?
Jun 05 14:04:29 <Italodance> GUYS
Jun 05 14:04:30 <Italodance> :D
Jun 05 14:04:51 <Italodance> look here : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=188979#post188979post188979
Jun 05 14:04:55 <Italodance> enjoy :D
Jun 05 14:05:53 <lardman> OpenGL accelerated yet? ;)
Jun 05 14:05:55 <Italodance> just someone tell me can see the pic?
Jun 05 14:06:04 <lardman> I can see it
Jun 05 14:06:12 <Italodance> good! :D
Jun 05 14:07:28 <Schubiddu> the pics of an directory ?
Jun 05 14:07:51 <lardman> Does DBUS offer the option to store data, or must all requests for a certain key (if that's the right word) be handled by some app which provides the data in real-time?
Jun 05 14:09:02 <Italodance> Schubiddu yes dir
Jun 05 14:09:30 <Schubiddu> ok then i see it too :-)
Jun 05 14:09:56 <lardman> Italodance: why do you ask anyway?
Jun 05 14:10:27 <lardman> lcuk2: you about?
Jun 05 14:12:13 <Italodance> lardman the pic isn't  loaded yet here! strange!
Jun 05 14:12:22 <lardman> ah, I see
Jun 05 14:37:03 <summatusmentis> *sigh* I need a cell data plan :-D
Jun 05 14:40:33 <trickie|work> lardman: dbus messages (and data) not consumed is dropped
Jun 05 14:41:07 <trickie|work> as in if noone is listening on a bus for a signal that you send, then it gets lost
Jun 05 14:41:10 <trickie|work> for example
Jun 05 14:47:04 <lardman> trickie|work: ok, cheers
Jun 05 14:47:18 <lardman> trickie|work: I was just looking at the innards of agps-ui and gpsdriver
Jun 05 14:47:51 <qwerty12> The http://maemo.daylessday.org's repo is timeless's repo right?
Jun 05 14:48:00 <lardman> hey qwerty12
Jun 05 14:48:09 <qwerty12> hi lardman :)
Jun 05 14:48:10 <lardman> qwerty12: you see my slight troubles with Diablo?
Jun 05 14:48:17 <lardman> is that a known issue?
Jun 05 14:48:28 * qwerty12 is checking
Jun 05 14:48:34 <trickie|work> lardman: agps-ui <- that from the diablo repo?
Jun 05 14:48:46 <qwerty12> yes
Jun 05 14:48:48 <lardman> reboot, white screen+blue Nokia, fades away and won't boot
Jun 05 14:48:55 <lardman> trickie|work: yep
Jun 05 14:49:07 <AStorm> RST38h: the aggregator can't find mplayer
Jun 05 14:49:08 <AStorm> ;P
Jun 05 14:49:09 <lardman> qwerty12: Is there a work around?
Jun 05 14:49:12 <AStorm> I guess it doesn't work
Jun 05 14:49:17 <qwerty12> lardman, Don't think so :/
Jun 05 14:49:24 <qwerty12> You don't happen to have a syslog running?
Jun 05 14:49:40 <lardman> qwerty12: no I didn't
Jun 05 14:49:56 <qwerty12> I had a problem where the tablet wouldn't boot after a dodgy update, init wouldn't start. I just reflashed :/
Jun 05 14:49:58 <qwerty12> ah :/
Jun 05 14:50:29 <qwerty12> lardman, Are you using chinook atm?
Jun 05 14:50:31 <lardman> I did the same, can't be bothered to update to Diablo again, will just look at the binaries and leave the supl protocol until it's released for real
Jun 05 14:50:37 <lardman> yes, am now
Jun 05 14:51:05 <X-Fade> lardman: Can't you just unpack the debs on chinook?
Jun 05 14:51:05 <qwerty12> Do you have bootmenu installed and a ext2 partition on a spare memory card by any chance?
Jun 05 14:51:23 <lardman> X-Fade: yeah probably
Jun 05 14:52:00 <X-Fade> if chinook really is compatible with diablo, that should work.
Jun 05 14:52:11 <lardman> X-Fade: sounds like a plan
Jun 05 14:52:26 <lardman> qwerty12: no, 2x vfat cards and no bootmenu
Jun 05 14:52:56 <qwerty12> Ah :/. I managed to obtain a diablo "rootfs" that was extracted from all the debs that could be dumped on a mmc.
Jun 05 14:53:03 <lardman> qwerty12: I installed rtcom, then fiddled with the status bar icons, lost the battery one and it wouldn't come back, so I rebooted and it wouldn't come up
Jun 05 14:53:17 <qwerty12> Sounds like hildon-desktop is messing up
Jun 05 14:53:27 <qwerty12> I've installed rtcomm twice in diablo fine
Jun 05 14:53:39 <lardman> qwerty12: ok, that rules that one out then
Jun 05 14:56:52 <lardman> ooh, i can see dsp-sbc will soon be beating maemo-mapper on the download stakes, 4 whole downloads :)
Jun 05 14:57:07 <qwerty12> YOU PUBLISHED IT! :O OMG
Jun 05 14:57:09 <qwerty12> Thanks :)
Jun 05 14:57:19 <lardman> not working yet
Jun 05 14:57:29 <qwerty12> Oh, ah right.
Jun 05 14:57:34 <X-Fade> lardman: I even promoted your message to the front page of garage. Even though it was kind of non-news ;)
Jun 05 14:57:35 * qwerty12 goes back into boring mode
Jun 05 14:58:01 <lardman> X-Fade: lol, i was quite shocked to see it there actually :D
Jun 05 14:58:17 <lardman> but thanks :)
Jun 05 14:58:37 <X-Fade> Well, more eyes that see it. Maybe there is one guru out there that notices it ;)
Jun 05 14:58:53 <lardman> we live in hope :)
Jun 05 14:59:48 <lardman> I'll sit down this evening and start comparing the intermediate results from the DSP output and x86 output and hopefully narrow it down
Jun 05 14:59:57 <lardman> much simpler structure than Tremor thank God
Jun 05 15:00:10 <qwerty12> I'll take your word for it :p
Jun 05 15:00:16 <X-Fade> That will be tedious work.
Jun 05 15:00:48 * qwerty12 is specialising in printer "hacking" for the tablets
Jun 05 15:00:54 <lardman> X-Fade: yeah, that's why it takes me soo long, boring evenings
Jun 05 15:01:24 <lardman> even doing the washing up is more interesting :)
Jun 05 15:01:37 <qwerty12> 0.o
Jun 05 15:02:27 <summatusmentis> qwerty12: printer 'hacking' ?
Jun 05 15:02:39 <qwerty12> summatusmentis, http://www.irongeek.com/i.php?page=security/networkprinterhacking
Jun 05 15:02:49 <qwerty12> I'm compiling the stuff for the tablet
Jun 05 15:03:02 <qwerty12> Here's "hijetter" : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20716&highlight=pft
Jun 05 15:03:52 <summatusmentis> Oh, I've heard of that
Jun 05 15:04:28 <qwerty12> As soon as I get my ass around to running aircrack on a kismet dump, I'm gonna have me some fun in school
Jun 05 15:04:48 <lardman> driftnet....
Jun 05 15:04:58 <lardman> though it didn't work for me the last time i tried it
Jun 05 15:07:09 <summatusmentis> qwerty12: be careful, my IT guy at my HS would've come down hard and fast if he found out
Jun 05 15:07:31 <summatusmentis> I was actually just contemplating playing with this at this place I'm contracting for.... bad idea :)
Jun 05 15:08:02 <qwerty12> summatusmentis, I've been excluded twice for this sort of stuff and lets just say me got a important password
Jun 05 15:08:07 <qwerty12> I know :)
Jun 05 15:08:25 <summatusmentis> excluded? is that like suspension in the US?
Jun 05 15:08:27 <qwerty12> It's fun though, I keep shutting down a group of computers
Jun 05 15:08:55 <qwerty12> summatusmentis, exclusion, it's like separation from the rest of the class for a while
Jun 05 15:09:05 <summatusmentis> but you still have to attend school
Jun 05 15:09:06 <qwerty12> I got external so I had to wait for a week before going back into school
Jun 05 15:09:12 <summatusmentis> oh, ok
Jun 05 15:09:43 <summatusmentis> we call that being suspended in the US, I guess your 'internal exlucsion' would be in-school suspension for us
Jun 05 15:09:54 <qwerty12> ah
Jun 05 15:10:15 <summatusmentis> s/exlucsion/exclusion/
Jun 05 15:10:15 <infobot> summatusmentis meant: we call that being suspended in the US, I guess your 'internal exclusion' would be in-school suspension for us
Jun 05 15:10:37 <summatusmentis> lol, a week? what were you doing?
Jun 05 15:11:44 <qwerty12> I brought up a cmd prompt using a little BASIC program I made and opened up the registration system (has addresses etc)
Jun 05 15:12:57 <Schubiddu> bye
Jun 05 15:13:04 <summatusmentis> bye Schubiddu
Jun 05 15:13:05 <qwerty12> Bye
Jun 05 15:13:29 <summatusmentis> qwerty12: lol, you script kiddie
Jun 05 15:14:01 <qwerty12> summatusmentis, Thanks, keep the compliments coming :P
Jun 05 15:14:19 <summatusmentis> lol, that's not generally a good thing. Start doing useful things w/ that knowledge
Jun 05 15:14:46 <summatusmentis> hi GAN800
Jun 05 15:15:13 <GAN800> Jaffa, I filed a bug abiut Extras on FBReader's tracker a few weeks ago.
Jun 05 15:15:18 <GAN800> Howdy
Jun 05 15:15:50 <Italodance> http://autoscan-network.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=53
Jun 05 15:16:08 <qwerty12> It don't work on OS2008
Jun 05 15:16:33 <Italodance> sure?
Jun 05 15:16:38 <qwerty12> Very ;)
Jun 05 15:16:48 <Italodance> ok
Jun 05 15:53:16 <Jaffa> GAN800/GeneralAntilles: howdy - and cool on the fbreader bug
Jun 05 15:53:38 <GeneralAntilles> Marius (I think) also poked them about it on the Google group a few months ago.
Jun 05 15:53:54 <GeneralAntilles> We should set out to inundate them with complaints. ;)
Jun 05 15:54:04 <GeneralAntilles> Then can be the first target for "What the community can do"
Jun 05 15:54:18 <Navi> Riot
Jun 05 15:54:28 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: talking of which, I took your "community leader" idea and turned it into "Community Council" which, hopefully, you'll have seen.
Jun 05 15:54:41 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I caught it.
Jun 05 15:54:48 <GeneralAntilles> Chatted a bit with lardman about it last night.
Jun 05 15:55:18 <GeneralAntilles> He mentioned that it might better represent the community with 5 members instead of 3.
Jun 05 15:56:21 <Jaffa> No argument from me, odd number always best though in case you need to get into a voting situation
Jun 05 15:58:04 <GeneralAntilles> Oddly, my top-3 list are all UK-based.
Jun 05 15:58:18 <qwerty12> Obviously, UK owns
Jun 05 15:58:20 <qwerty12> :p
Jun 05 15:59:23 <Jaffa> Shouldn't that be "pwns" if we want to be irrationally jingoistic? ;-)
Jun 05 15:59:40 <qwerty12> s/owns/pwns/
Jun 05 15:59:46 <qwerty12> happy now? :p
Jun 05 16:00:43 <RST38h> back
Jun 05 16:01:05 <GeneralAntilles> The Recent Changes RSS feed would be nice if it weren't so slow on the uptake.
Jun 05 16:01:38 <qwerty12> That makes it "The Not-So-Recent Changes RSS feed"
Jun 05 16:02:36 <Navi> HAR HAR HARHAR
Jun 05 16:03:07 <qwerty12> ARF ARF
Jun 05 16:04:16 <RST38h> AStorm,johnx: http://fms.komkon.org/Maemo
Jun 05 16:04:25 <RST38h> sorry that was to ga
Jun 05 16:05:05 <GeneralAntilles> No results for Canola, canola, or maemo-pan. :(
Jun 05 16:05:07 <AStorm> RST38h: fixed already?
Jun 05 16:05:20 <qwerty12> No results for fmsx, vgba ;P
Jun 05 16:05:41 <AStorm> and no results for mplayer either
Jun 05 16:07:51 <RST38h> astorm: somewhat, check
Jun 05 16:08:08 <RST38h> qwerty: there are results
Jun 05 16:08:43 <qwerty12> It's working for me now :/
Jun 05 16:09:01 <qwerty12> Hmm, I know what I did
Jun 05 16:09:22 <AStorm> http://fms.komkon.org/Maemo/index.php?Action=list&Platform=OS2008&Arg=mplayer&Section=user&Repository=http%3A%2F%2Frepository.maemo.org%2Fextras%2F
Jun 05 16:09:27 <AStorm> no results
Jun 05 16:09:40 <qwerty12> I chose OS2008, and the repository.maemo.org/extras. While it works when blank, I would expect it to work with those filled in ;)
Jun 05 16:09:54 <AStorm> the parameters are broken, yes
Jun 05 16:09:56 <qwerty12> AStorm, http://fms.komkon.org/Maemo/index.php?Action=list&Platform=&Arg=mplayer&Section=&Repository=
Jun 05 16:10:04 <qwerty12> Must have done same thing as me
Jun 05 16:10:29 <AStorm> yes, twoparameters are broken
Jun 05 16:10:33 <AStorm> Platform and section
Jun 05 16:12:13 <RST38h> astorm: do not select repository
Jun 05 16:12:23 <RST38h> keep all fields clear
Jun 05 16:13:09 <AStorm> repository works
Jun 05 16:15:50 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles/lardman|gone: fiddled with the Council numbers a little: 5 members (+2), reduced voting and nominee karma thresholds
Jun 05 16:16:21 <GeneralAntilles> Sounds good.
Jun 05 16:17:10 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, the description text is a little hard to read.
Jun 05 16:18:12 <GeneralAntilles> Particularly on the tablet.
Jun 05 16:18:20 <RST38h> ga: i can either fold it or keep it this size
Jun 05 16:18:23 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe up the type size and limit the max characters?
Jun 05 16:18:43 <GeneralAntilles> With a (more...) link to expand it.
Jun 05 16:18:52 <RST38h> maybe...
Jun 05 16:19:13 <GeneralAntilles> I'm not in love with that, either, though.
Jun 05 16:19:31 <AStorm> ok people
Jun 05 16:19:36 <RST38h> will see.. it is an early alpha anyway
Jun 05 16:19:49 <AStorm> how do I go about impendance matching in headphones? (esp. Ohm value)
Jun 05 16:20:03 <AStorm> that should reduce noise as heard with low-Ohm headphones
Jun 05 16:20:05 <GeneralAntilles> I notice it's set to the max-width for windowed MicroB, any way to make that expand to max-width for fullscreen when you go fullscreen?
Jun 05 16:20:14 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I understand, it's looking good, though.
Jun 05 16:20:20 <AStorm> do I hook up ground through additional Ohms, or not?
Jun 05 16:20:33 <RST38h> it is set to 100 percent
Jun 05 16:20:52 <RST38h> or it should be anyway
Jun 05 16:22:46 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe it's 100% for its parent element?
Jun 05 16:23:25 <RST38h> dont remember and i am on a cell phone right now
Jun 05 16:23:34 <RST38h> will check tonight
Jun 05 16:24:10 <hrw> bye
Jun 05 16:24:14 <qwerty12> bye
Jun 05 16:24:28 <zap> RST38h: Isn't possible to display packages with a one-line description, and if clicked show it on a separate screen?
Jun 05 16:24:45 <zap> or at least take the first paragraph from description
Jun 05 16:25:12 <GeneralAntilles> Separate screen?
Jun 05 16:25:13 <GeneralAntilles> Ew.
Jun 05 16:25:17 <GeneralAntilles> ESPECIALLY ew on the tablet.
Jun 05 16:26:06 <zap> Well, on a separate screen it would have a set of screenshots, the full description, and comments from users
Jun 05 16:26:18 <zap> or is this designed to be just a repo browser?
Jun 05 16:26:22 <GeneralAntilles> Screenshots from where?
Jun 05 16:26:38 <GeneralAntilles> I suppose you could probably aggregate in the Downloads shots and comments
Jun 05 16:26:38 <RST38h> zap: i amthinking in terms of foldouts
Jun 05 16:26:44 <GeneralAntilles> but that sounds painful.
Jun 05 16:26:46 <zap> from anywhere :) we could agree on some standard packaging of screenshots into the .deb
Jun 05 16:26:53 <GeneralAntilles> and likely to net you false-positives
Jun 05 16:26:56 <RST38h> comments - way too far in the future
Jun 05 16:27:05 <zap> ok :)
Jun 05 16:27:13 <zap> I just remember my first experience with N810
Jun 05 16:27:21 <Jaffa> Screenshots in deb == bloat on limited space of tablets.
Jun 05 16:27:23 <zap> lots of apps with bad descriptions
Jun 05 16:27:25 <GeneralAntilles> ^
Jun 05 16:27:31 <GeneralAntilles> @Jaffa's comment.
Jun 05 16:27:36 <zap> Jaffa: screenshots won't be installed
Jun 05 16:27:38 <Jaffa> Separate pages with screenshots & comments is too close to the point of downloads.maemo.org
Jun 05 16:27:40 <GeneralAntilles> zap, bitch at the packagers.
Jun 05 16:27:43 <zap> just like the icon
Jun 05 16:27:44 <GeneralAntilles> zap, still have to be cached.
Jun 05 16:28:10 <dneary> Hi GeneralAntilles
Jun 05 16:28:14 <Jaffa> zap: oh, so we'll store hundreds of KB of PNG data in the package meta-data, which is still stored on the tablet - but takes up MORE room?! :-)
Jun 05 16:28:19 <dneary> I finally got around to doing some wiki stuff today
Jun 05 16:28:31 <qwerty12> screenshots in debs are also pointless as you have to install the deb anyway. Why have screenshots when you can launch the program anyway?
Jun 05 16:28:32 <zap> Jaffa: ok ok, at least some URL or something like thast
Jun 05 16:28:34 <zap> *that
Jun 05 16:28:39 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, saw it, dneary. ;)
Jun 05 16:28:44 <dneary> GeneralAntilles: Not sure if you agree with me, but I'm going for fewer categories (using sub-categories if necessary)
Jun 05 16:28:56 <dneary> and the most prominent links on the front page
Jun 05 16:29:02 <GeneralAntilles> dneary, my wiki-organizing experience is limited.
Jun 05 16:29:05 <dneary> Even if those links aren't to wiki pages
Jun 05 16:29:27 <dneary> I'm unsure about that right now, but anyway - I'm going to let it ride & see how it turns out
Jun 05 16:29:58 <GeneralAntilles> A URI to a screenshot in the deb might work
Jun 05 16:30:02 <GeneralAntilles> But still, mostly pointless.
Jun 05 16:30:11 <GeneralAntilles> dneary, we can always modify things later
Jun 05 16:30:15 <dneary> When I have an idea what the Development section should look like I'll get it started & will be solliciting help
Jun 05 16:30:22 <RST38h> screenshots are kind of less important
Jun 05 16:30:24 <GeneralAntilles> Having something in place to get started is the most important thing for now.
Jun 05 16:30:27 <dneary> GeneralAntilles: Indeed - that's what wikis are for :)
Jun 05 16:30:46 <zap> screenshots give a general overview of what you're going to install (or not install)
Jun 05 16:31:02 <zap> and sometimes a screenshot says more than any description
Jun 05 16:31:15 <GeneralAntilles> dneary, maybe stick a task for the front page on the MAG tasklist?
Jun 05 16:32:10 * GeneralAntilles still needs to work out the MAG guidelines and process.
Jun 05 16:32:31 <csaavedra> does anyone actually use jhbuild to build maemo? Looks like there's a dependency cycle in the jhbuild moduleset
Jun 05 16:33:06 <dneary> MAG?
Jun 05 16:33:17 * qwerty12 wants to KILL maemo for not having a libperl-dev
Jun 05 16:33:23 <GeneralAntilles> https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemowiki_Action_Group ;)
Jun 05 16:33:36 <dneary> I'm actually thinking that the front page should be pretty tightly policed - don't want it growing warts just yet
Jun 05 16:34:14 <Jaffa> dneary: agreed. Structurally should be very static, and have content changes should be as high a quality as possible (c.f. Wikipedia's front page)
Jun 05 16:34:36 <dneary> Yup
Jun 05 16:34:49 <dneary> Jaffa: I like the front page design that GA came up with, though
Jun 05 16:35:30 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody still needs to fix the CSS.
Jun 05 16:35:51 <Jaffa> It's a good approach, not quite there yet; but I'm not sure what we want it to do
Jun 05 16:39:15 <dneary> GeneralAntilles: OK - I haven't been using the MAG pages for my brain dumping
Jun 05 16:39:17 <dneary> I will now
Jun 05 16:39:22 <dneary> (well, later this evening)
Jun 05 16:39:59 <GeneralAntilles> Just good to have everything that's going on centralized and easy to track.
Jun 05 16:53:50 <GeneralAntilles> andre___, guenther: what do you think about putting together a triager's group on the wiki?
Jun 05 16:54:25 <GeneralAntilles> Partly to serve as a central organization point for current triagers and partly to help introduce newcomers to triaging.
Jun 05 16:54:39 <guenther> sure, good idea
Jun 05 16:56:38 <GeneralAntilles> One bit of trouble I had getting into it (aside from the fact that bugzilla has really only recently gained any kind of real focus), is that there really aren't any good guides to bug triaging out there.
Jun 05 16:56:50 <GeneralAntilles> So there's a bit of a barrier getting into it.
Jun 05 16:58:37 <guenther> live.gnome.org holds triage information :)
Jun 05 16:58:56 <guenther> However, this pretty much depends on the project.
Jun 05 16:59:11 <guenther> Different rules, processing style, etc.
Jun 05 17:39:14 <Maximander> morning
Jun 05 17:39:43 <Maximander> anyone know if n800 bluetooth stack supports bluetooth serial port profile?
Jun 05 17:40:24 <glass> it should
Jun 05 17:40:42 <glass> at least a lot of apps use it for gps or whatever dongles
Jun 05 17:41:05 <Maximander> any idea where to start looking for more info (other than google) ?
Jun 05 17:43:43 <pH5> Maximander: I'd say wiki.bluez.org, look for the dbus api
Jun 05 17:44:47 <Maximander> thanks
Jun 05 17:49:36 <summatusmentis> Jackson WY has wimax already...
Jun 05 17:49:47 <summatusmentis> DO WANT!
Jun 05 17:50:12 <GeneralAntilles> 'spensive
Jun 05 17:50:16 <GeneralAntilles> $40/mo minimum
Jun 05 17:50:42 <Navi> :P
Jun 05 17:51:22 <summatusmentis> $30/mo
Jun 05 17:51:30 <Navi> :P
Jun 05 17:51:49 <summatusmentis> and it's faster than what some residents are paying $50/mo for
Jun 05 17:52:08 <GeneralAntilles> 1Mbps is faster than $50/mo internet?
Jun 05 17:52:09 <GeneralAntilles> Damn.
Jun 05 17:52:25 <summatusmentis> they might be getting better than 1Mbps
Jun 05 17:52:42 <summatusmentis> apparently this company that's doing it has their own freq for it
Jun 05 17:53:08 <GeneralAntilles> Not Xohm?
Jun 05 17:55:10 <summatusmentis> I don't believe so... hold on, i'm finding out(have a friend in Jackson who works for a company that is being asked to be a reseller)
Jun 05 17:57:49 <pupnik_> jackson hole had a wild reputation in the 70s
Jun 05 17:58:00 <pupnik_> i took the biggest ski jump of my life there
Jun 05 17:58:30 <summatusmentis> dude, the skiing there is awesome
Jun 05 17:58:33 <pupnik> nothing like skiing with people who are way better than you
Jun 05 17:58:34 <pupnik> heh
Jun 05 17:58:40 <summatusmentis> for real
Jun 05 17:58:59 <summatusmentis> GeneralAntilles: base speed is 1.5Mbps, w/ up to 5 Mbps if you have line of sight
Jun 05 17:59:27 <GeneralAntilles> I was going from Xohm numbers.
Jun 05 17:59:29 <summatusmentis> I lived in Jackson for a year, I loved it there
Jun 05 17:59:48 <summatusmentis> yeah, I'm assuming this isn't Xohm, but I'm gonna find out shortly
Jun 05 18:00:09 <pupnik> ever hit courbet's couloir summatusmentis?
Jun 05 18:00:24 <pupnik> (i chickened out)
Jun 05 18:00:41 <pupnik> oh corbet
Jun 05 18:01:10 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody out with an N810 + Diablo that can test this?
Jun 05 18:02:12 <GeneralAntilles> Sorry, link: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2501
Jun 05 18:02:33 <summatusmentis> pupnik: I taught myself how to snowboard out there, only ever skiied the blues
Jun 05 18:02:45 <summatusmentis> anything bigger than that scared the snot out of me
Jun 05 18:02:51 <pupnik> i mean i can figure you can hop off corbets and just slide down
Jun 05 18:02:59 <pupnik> but i was just way too scared
Jun 05 18:03:36 <pupnik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6-IVPOANW0
Jun 05 18:03:38 <summatusmentis> there are some rough injuries that come out of jumping off stuff on that resort mountain
Jun 05 18:04:41 <pupnik> yeah
Jun 05 18:07:49 <summatusmentis> OMG
Jun 05 18:08:02 <summatusmentis> where is that at? up the tram?
Jun 05 18:09:48 <pupnik> yeah well i was happy enough to do my first 12 foot jumps and stuff
Jun 05 18:10:01 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody, N810 + Diablo? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2501
Jun 05 18:10:24 <pupnik> and none of us had the balls for corbet's so that was ok
Jun 05 18:10:35 <Anunakin> General, where we can find diablo!?
Jun 05 18:10:45 <GeneralAntilles> Anunakin, see the thread on itT
Jun 05 18:11:02 <Anunakin> Yes sir!
Jun 05 18:11:11 <summatusmentis> pupnik: yeah, there's no way I'm good enough to do that
Jun 05 18:11:46 <pupnik> i don't see how you could stay standing on a snowboard
Jun 05 18:12:21 <summatusmentis> a shit-ton of traversals, quickly, and riding one edge the entire time
Jun 05 18:12:25 <summatusmentis> maybe
Jun 05 18:12:47 * pupnik is digging for his jackson hole pics
Jun 05 18:12:51 <summatusmentis> or you could just go, close your eyes, and see if it works :)
Jun 05 18:27:26 <dannym> hi
Jun 05 18:28:22 <dannym> I'm trying to port VICE (Commodore Emulator) over and I just wondered whether Maemo has any limitations in the X font support... can't find "mkfontdir" or "bdftopcf", for example...
Jun 05 18:30:48 <summatusmentis> GAN800: what frequency does Xohm use? This company in Jackson is Bridgemaxx, part of Digitalbridge. They're using the 2.3ghz spectrum
Jun 05 18:31:26 <GeneralAntilles> 2.5
Jun 05 18:33:57 <summatusmentis> would that make a differnce in throughput?
Jun 05 18:34:33 <GeneralAntilles> No
Jun 05 18:35:31 <summatusmentis> does Xohm just not have a large enough backbone? how is this company getting better speeds than Xohm?
Jun 05 18:36:13 <AStorm> dannym: well, mkfontdir is part of X I think
Jun 05 18:36:32 <AStorm> bdftopcf too
Jun 05 18:36:40 <AStorm> might be separate packages on Maemo
Jun 05 18:39:10 <GeneralAntilles> summatusmentis, it's just the pricing levels.
Jun 05 18:39:14 <GeneralAntilles> Xohm goes up to $60
Jun 05 18:39:20 <GeneralAntilles> at 5 or 7Mbps or something.
Jun 05 18:42:30 <dannym> AStorm: hmmm... how do I find out which package will contain it? My Debian knowledge is a bit rusty...
Jun 05 18:42:45 <dannym> does*
Jun 05 18:42:48 <AStorm> hmm, dunno, ask someone else
Jun 05 18:52:27 <GeneralAntilles> Who wants to start working through this (http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.0.1/4.0_vs_4.0.1_content_comparison.html) to put together a package list for the open/closed justification/petitioning outlined here? http://wiki.maemo.org/Increasing_transparency
Jun 05 18:58:35 <mgedmin> what's 4.0.1?
Jun 05 18:58:40 <mgedmin> I thought diablo was 4.1
Jun 05 18:58:44 <GeneralAntilles> Diablo is 4.1
Jun 05 18:58:57 <GeneralAntilles> 4.0.1 is 50-2
Jun 05 18:59:05 <GeneralAntilles> 4.0 is pre-50-2
Jun 05 18:59:28 <GeneralAntilles> http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/maemo_4_0_1_released.html
Jun 05 19:07:27 <lcuk> is there a command line way to power cycle the device properly
Jun 05 19:07:46 <penguinbait> shutdown -r now
Jun 05 19:07:47 <GeneralAntilles> reboot
Jun 05 19:07:47 <penguinbait> ?
Jun 05 19:08:18 <lcuk> im not sure, thats why im asking..  does that do a complete restart or is it still the fake one dropping to charger
Jun 05 19:08:46 <GeneralAntilles> You have to unplug the charger for it to reboot totally.
Jun 05 19:08:52 <beford> hmm
Jun 05 19:08:52 <penguinbait> I think if you are plugged in, it will always do the " fake"
Jun 05 19:08:58 <penguinbait> yes what he said
Jun 05 19:09:00 <GeneralAntilles> It has to be booted to charge, so it's always^
Jun 05 19:09:23 <beford> My devices doesn't start, It keeps rebooting at the progress bar indicator
Jun 05 19:09:26 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: I was imagining a small script which took a list of all the packages on a device and checked for source at repository.maemo.org
Jun 05 19:09:32 <Jaffa> ...as a starting point at least
Jun 05 19:09:37 <lcuk> no it doesnt.  it charges fine if i pop the battery and put it in.  it could quite happily survive a cold start
Jun 05 19:09:54 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, sounds a lot more sensible. ;)
Jun 05 19:10:18 <lcuk> reboot and shutdown now found by the way
Jun 05 19:10:25 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, no it doesn't what?
Jun 05 19:10:47 <lcuk> it doesnt need to still be running to be waiting to charge
Jun 05 19:10:52 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: the small problem is that I'm on holiday tomorrow for two weeks, in communicado; so any input into the 100 Days ends tonight when I shut stuff down and go off to France
Jun 05 19:11:21 <penguinbait> lcuk, what he said is its already running, when it says its off and charging
Jun 05 19:11:34 <penguinbait> I think, is what GA was saying?
Jun 05 19:11:43 <GeneralAntilles> If you want it to charge, it has to be booted
Jun 05 19:11:52 <GeneralAntilles> so either you've already got it booted, or it takes care of it itself
Jun 05 19:12:00 <lcuk> yer, so if the charger is disconnected when i turn off, is the machine still running the "waiting for charger" app, or is it actually off
Jun 05 19:12:00 <GeneralAntilles> either way, you can't shut it down when the charger is in.
Jun 05 19:12:10 <GeneralAntilles> It's off, of course. . . .
Jun 05 19:12:20 <penguinbait> no charger in, and off = off
Jun 05 19:12:37 <lardman> Jaffa: 100 days? ;)
Jun 05 19:12:40 <penguinbait> charger in, and off = on (to some degree)
Jun 05 19:12:49 <lcuk> so what is running if i turn it off with charger in and then pull out charger - is the charging app running but with all screen off?
Jun 05 19:13:04 <Jaffa> lardman: OK, any input into the *start* of the 100 Days and the end of the brainstorm, ends tonight when I shut down :-)
Jun 05 19:13:08 <lardman> :)
Jun 05 19:13:09 <lcuk> or does it shutdown itself then
Jun 05 19:13:12 <beford> My device keeps rebooting at start, if I take the microsd out, it boots normally
Jun 05 19:13:18 <lardman> lcuk: it keeps running
Jun 05 19:13:29 <penguinbait> bedford, is it boot from SD?
Jun 05 19:13:31 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, it'll turn off after you pull the charger.
Jun 05 19:13:32 <beford> no
Jun 05 19:13:42 <mgedmin> I've heard that bad sd cards can cause boot problems
Jun 05 19:13:45 <mgedmin> interesting
Jun 05 19:13:50 <lardman> lcuk: you can tell as you can't flash if you shut down with the charger in, even if you pull it out afterwards
Jun 05 19:13:53 <lcuk> but without any input or output.  ie no different to when you shutoff without charger.   is there any way to tell if it ever actually goes off?
Jun 05 19:13:54 <mgedmin> bad cards or just badly inserted ones
Jun 05 19:14:01 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: I don't think sp
Jun 05 19:14:01 <penguinbait> never seen or heard of that
Jun 05 19:14:11 <lcuk> perfect lardman :) thanks
Jun 05 19:14:12 <GeneralAntilles> If you pull the charger when it's in charge mode, the device shuts down.
Jun 05 19:14:14 <lcuk> thats enough to know
Jun 05 19:14:22 <beford> penguinbait, the only 'weird' thing I remember havingi nstalled recently is maemo-pc connectivity
Jun 05 19:14:28 <penguinbait> I did have my 810 internal card go read-only on me, but it still booted, you just could not install anything
Jun 05 19:14:45 <Jaffa> penguinbait: that'll be the partition size issue, I bet
Jun 05 19:14:48 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: So if you plugged it in when it was completely off -> charge mode, then unplug and it switches off?
Jun 05 19:14:49 <penguinbait> what is maemo-pc connectivity
Jun 05 19:14:55 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: I've not tried that combo
Jun 05 19:15:18 <GeneralAntilles> It also shuts down if you turn it "off" with the charger plugged in, the pull the charger when it's in charge mode.
Jun 05 19:15:21 <GeneralAntilles> At least for me.
Jun 05 19:15:24 <beford> penguinbait, its a development package I believe, it enables a couple of things like remote scratchbox shell, and usb networking
Jun 05 19:15:33 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, how do you know its off though?
Jun 05 19:16:04 <beford> penguinbait, but when I try to enable usb networking manually, I get a message that says, 'unable to insert module'. going to try to uninstall if and check if that fix it
Jun 05 19:16:05 <penguinbait> GA scans it with his mind, and just knows
Jun 05 19:16:07 <lcuk> im only curious cos i cant get mine to turn off and it needs a reboot
Jun 05 19:16:21 <lcuk> im trying to save myself the pop the battery route
Jun 05 19:16:58 <penguinbait> I am confused, pull the power cord, and run shutdown -r now
Jun 05 19:17:06 <penguinbait> whats the issue?
Jun 05 19:17:20 <lcuk> something has borkened in xv and it wont come back no matter how many actual reboot methods ive tried, i know it will work if i pop the battery because its happened before
Jun 05 19:17:52 <lcuk> my program and others fail to start (gtk ones)  its resolvable by a proper battery out reboot
Jun 05 19:18:06 <lardman> lcuk: you can test by using the flasher tool to do something (do a query on R&D flags for example).
Jun 05 19:18:41 <lcuk> ive got it here, i know something is still not initialized correctly because it wont reboot
Jun 05 19:18:47 <GeneralAntilles> Just tested it, lcuk, works fine.
Jun 05 19:18:53 <GeneralAntilles> Entered flashing mode.
Jun 05 19:19:06 <lcuk> ive now tried all possible combinations and liqbase fails to start
Jun 05 19:19:33 <lcuk> ive popped battery..
Jun 05 19:20:35 <lcuk> and its worked
Jun 05 19:20:47 <lcuk> hmmm hardware?
Jun 05 19:21:51 <mgedmin> hmm
Jun 05 19:21:54 <mgedmin> dsp?
Jun 05 19:22:05 <lcuk> dont touch it
Jun 05 19:22:10 <mgedmin> btw my n810's internal card got corrupted again
Jun 05 19:22:26 <lcuk> im thinking lcd - its something in x, some new windows wont open
Jun 05 19:22:31 <mgedmin> how's xv scaling implemented?
Jun 05 19:22:32 <lcuk> ooooer
Jun 05 19:22:52 <mgedmin> does it use the dsp, some other hardware scaler, or is everything done in sw?
Jun 05 19:22:53 <lcuk> lcd hardware - bits are sent at arbitary resolution prescaled, lcd upscales
Jun 05 19:23:01 <mgedmin> ok
Jun 05 19:23:20 <lcuk> prescaled =unscaled
Jun 05 19:23:51 <lcuk> nm, it works again now
Jun 05 19:24:17 <chi800> hi, is there a detailed manual for usbcontrol somwhere?
Jun 05 19:24:20 <beford> ok, that didn't work :/ should I reflash it?
Jun 05 19:24:47 <penguinbait> woo hoo, the boss is gone, the work days done
Jun 05 19:25:16 <lardman> :)
Jun 05 19:25:40 <beford> hmm after a couple of reboots it starts ok
Jun 05 19:25:52 <beford> going to check if there is anything on messages
Jun 05 19:26:30 <mgedmin> you've got syslog?
Jun 05 19:30:18 <beford> checked dmesg, I see a couple of errors that say mmcblk1 I/O error
Jun 05 19:30:34 <beford> attempt to access beyond end of device
Jun 05 19:31:15 <lardman> ~lart 16bit chars
Jun 05 19:31:16 * infobot executes killall -KILL 16bit chars
Jun 05 19:31:47 * mgedmin cheers
Jun 05 19:33:53 <lardman> hmm, confused myself
Jun 05 19:34:15 <lardman> trying to keep some arrays with packed data, and some only filling the bottom halves
Jun 05 19:35:52 <chi800> i have a usb kb that only needs 50 mA, but usbcontrol doesn't give it a device ID, any ideas on what could be wrong?
Jun 05 19:40:09 <lardman> yay, fixed the crc code
Jun 05 19:42:35 <beford> is there any way to enable a verbose boot mode or something similar?
Jun 05 19:44:24 <GeneralAntilles> framebuffer console
Jun 05 19:44:30 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, but it's mildly involved
Jun 05 19:44:36 <GeneralAntilles> and I'm not sure of the steps off-hand.
Jun 05 19:51:12 * Jaffa gets a self-important pleasure at seeing his p.m.o posts go to double-digit favouriting and that it breaks the CSS a tiny bit :-)
Jun 05 19:52:33 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Jun 05 19:52:38 <GeneralAntilles> Bugzilla time. ;)
Jun 05 19:53:25 <GeneralAntilles> I wish it would keep me logged in at maemo.org
Jun 05 19:53:55 <beford> oh, the mmc that is failing seems to be the internal one
Jun 05 19:54:36 <beford> Buffer I/O error on device mmcb1k0p1, logical block XXX
Jun 05 20:20:35 <dneary> Jaffa: Was it you or GeneralAntilles who did the front page? I can't remember now
Jun 05 20:20:49 <dneary> And I noticed that you are a bit of a templates whizz :)
Jun 05 20:21:06 <GeneralAntilles> I started it, Jaffa did a lot of a refinement
Jun 05 20:21:10 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade did some CSS stuff.
Jun 05 20:21:15 <dneary> Ah, OK
Jun 05 20:21:32 <dneary> So I wasn't quite 100% wrong earlier when I gave you credit for the front page design :)
Jun 05 20:21:48 <GeneralAntilles> No, it's my design
Jun 05 20:21:57 <GeneralAntilles> It's just been worked on a lot by others, too. ;)
Jun 05 20:23:00 <flo_lap> re
Jun 05 20:23:42 <GeneralAntilles> Hi, flo_lap.
Jun 05 20:24:48 <dneary> You know, I'm not convinced that templates are approriate for (say) the front page
Jun 05 20:25:18 <dneary> I'm used to seeing them be for things like warnings, headers, footers, but not for actual page content
Jun 05 20:25:49 <dneary> It makes it a bit trickier to figure out where to go to add links to the sections
Jun 05 20:25:53 <dneary> What do you think?
Jun 05 20:26:02 <GeneralAntilles> Eh, maybe, it's the method wikipedia uses.
Jun 05 20:26:14 <GeneralAntilles> Makes the code a bit cleaner.
Jun 05 20:26:23 <dneary> Maybe
Jun 05 20:26:32 <GeneralAntilles> I'd say it's up to whomever is doing most of the front page work. ;)
Jun 05 20:26:50 <dneary> If I could find a link to Template:** without having to edit Main_Page, I'd be happier :)
Jun 05 20:27:36 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe put together a dneary/Front page page with all the front page templates?
Jun 05 20:27:51 <GeneralAntilles> Or Front page:Templates
Jun 05 20:27:53 <GeneralAntilles> or something
Jun 05 20:28:07 <dneary> GeneralAntilles: Or put the templates in a category?
Jun 05 20:28:16 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, that's on my list.
Jun 05 20:28:22 <GeneralAntilles> I should've already been doing that. . .
Jun 05 20:28:33 <dneary> __HIDDEN_TEMPLATES__, with [[Category:Templates]]
Jun 05 20:28:50 * dneary has also been learning about MediaWiki
Jun 05 20:28:56 <GeneralAntilles> <noinclude>[[Category:Templates]]</noinclude>
Jun 05 20:30:19 <GeneralAntilles> http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Special:Allpages&namespace=10
Jun 05 20:31:17 <GeneralAntilles> This might be worth bookmarking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Namespace
Jun 05 20:31:36 <befr0d_> Cluster 999603 is unreadable.
Jun 05 20:31:36 <befr0d_> Cluster 999604 is unreadable.
Jun 05 20:31:36 <befr0d_> Free cluster summary wrong (999602 vs. really 979122)
Jun 05 20:31:58 <befr0d_> I just fscked the internal memory, hope that fixes it
Jun 05 20:31:59 <GeneralAntilles> befr0d_, did you ever reformat the internal card after getting the N810?
Jun 05 20:32:05 <befr0d_> nop
Jun 05 20:32:07 <GeneralAntilles> It ships with an oversized partition table.
Jun 05 20:32:12 <GeneralAntilles> So you'll need to remake it.
Jun 05 20:32:32 <befr0d_> ok so, that's what fsck just fixed, right?
Jun 05 20:32:44 <dbbddbdb_> What journaling filesystem would you recommend?
Jun 05 20:32:54 <dbbddbdb_> Are there any general-use filesystems that don't stress the flash by keeping a journal in a single place of a disk and constantly rewriting it?
Jun 05 20:33:06 <dneary> GeneralAntilles: Any idea why the Help pages that were there have been removed?
Jun 05 20:33:16 <GeneralAntilles> Which help pages?
Jun 05 20:33:30 <dneary> Help, Help:Editing, etc
Jun 05 20:33:50 <dneary> MediaWiki syntax & help pages,
Jun 05 20:34:09 <dneary> (click on Help in the left navigation panel)
Jun 05 20:34:34 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe X-Fade accidentally did something when he was messing with the sidebar?
Jun 05 20:34:34 <GeneralAntilles> dunno
Jun 05 20:37:32 <dneary> I'll ask him tomorrow
Jun 05 20:38:52 <befr0d> GeneralAntilles, ok fsck didnt fix the boot problem, how should I create the partition? gparted, whole space vfat type, right?
Jun 05 20:39:06 <GeneralAntilles> That should do it, befr0d.
Jun 05 20:40:38 <GeneralAntilles> dneary, when you do the midgard move, can you have the script append a note to all of the ex-midgard articles? I'm thinking something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cleanup to note that it's an ex-midgard article and the syntax may need cleanup to fit with the mediawiki.
Jun 05 20:40:57 <GeneralAntilles> That'll give us a list of all the old midgard articles, too, and after somebody cleans it up they can just delete the tag.
Jun 05 20:42:57 <GeneralAntilles> dneary, http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:Template
Jun 05 20:48:30 <befr0d> gparted doesn't recognize the current partition :S
Jun 05 20:52:36 <dneary> GeneralAntilles: Great!
Jun 05 20:52:37 <dneary> Thanks
Jun 05 20:52:57 <beford> Nokia should fix the partition problem :P
Jun 05 20:53:31 * lardman gets his hopes up that he's fixed the problem....
Jun 05 20:53:37 <AStorm> beford: sure they should
Jun 05 20:53:42 <AStorm> it's simple enough to fix
Jun 05 20:53:44 * lardman is thinking of a different problem though
Jun 05 20:54:30 <hrw> hi
Jun 05 20:54:35 <lardman> hey hrw
Jun 05 20:54:36 <beford> I hope that's the thing that makes my n810 reboots severals time at start up, i've just repartitioned the internal mmc, gonna see if it work
Jun 05 20:54:40 <hrw> GeneralAntilles: great work on templates
Jun 05 20:55:04 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks
Jun 05 20:55:55 <AStorm> beford: which version of OS2008 do you have?
Jun 05 20:56:17 <beford> lastest, I had to flash to be able to install skype
Jun 05 20:56:48 <beford> RX-44_2008SE_2.2007.51-3
Jun 05 20:56:48 <lardman> ooo, you little beauty :)
Jun 05 20:56:56 <AStorm> beford: mhm, should work
Jun 05 20:56:57 <lardman> sbc encoder works :)
Jun 05 20:57:04 * pH5 cheers
Jun 05 20:57:31 <pupnik> http://thisjune5th.com/  withdraw your money from the bank today ;)
Jun 05 20:59:23 <RST38h> back
Jun 05 21:00:03 <qgil> hi there
Jun 05 21:00:06 <qgil> https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008
Jun 05 21:00:22 <lardman> hi qgil
Jun 05 21:00:25 <qgil> can someone put this URL in the #maemo topic please?
Jun 05 21:01:28 <qgil> also, at least from my point of view https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days has all the pre-agreed tasks in place
Jun 05 21:01:45 <qgil> please hurry if you want to propose new tasks for the 100 days
Jun 05 21:01:46 <hrw> hi qgil
Jun 05 21:02:02 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, qgil.
Jun 05 21:02:07 <qgil> there are some proposals still under discussion: help pushing them if you think they are urgent
Jun 05 21:03:00 <qgil> it would be great if someone could do a similar process of creating new pages for the objectives proposed at https://wiki.maemo.org/2010_Agenda
Jun 05 21:03:16 <qgil> although the time pressure for the 2010 agenda is not so big
Jun 05 21:03:27 <hrw> hmm.. OSiM..
Jun 05 21:03:52 <qgil> lardman, can it be that you haven't sent your expenses? please do it  :)
Jun 05 21:04:09 <lcuk> have you got mine quim?
Jun 05 21:04:40 <lardman> qgil: Good point, sorry been busy since I got back to work
Jun 05 21:04:42 <qgil> lcuk: yes, but just saw the email in my mobile - did you send a signed form - scanned or pictured?
Jun 05 21:05:12 <qgil> hrw: hi, OSIM, yes
Jun 05 21:05:20 <AStorm> hmmm, I'm not sure if it's possible, but a repository with all the Nokia not yet opened stuff would be great
Jun 05 21:05:24 <lcuk> took a photo of my signed bill and sent it along with the mail, if you require originals at any time i have a duplicate
Jun 05 21:05:26 <AStorm> unless it's already done
Jun 05 21:05:42 <qgil> AStorm: please check the wiki since something along these lines is already proposed
Jun 05 21:05:45 <AStorm> so that one doesn't have to reflash if he removes a media-player and wants it back for instance
Jun 05 21:05:46 <AStorm> great!
Jun 05 21:06:00 <qgil> lcuk: not only the bill, also the form signed by you
Jun 05 21:06:16 <lcuk> ahhhh no, i will do that and send to you
Jun 05 21:06:27 * lcuk goes and prints it
Jun 05 21:06:30 <qgil> signatures are important to accountants  :)
Jun 05 21:06:33 <beford> :/ did not work AStorm
Jun 05 21:06:40 <beford> should I try to reflash it?
Jun 05 21:06:41 <lcuk> yes of course
Jun 05 21:07:03 <qgil> alright, late in Helsinki (but still some daylight, amazing)
Jun 05 21:07:04 <AStorm> beford: hmm, you fixed the partitioning of internal flash?
Jun 05 21:07:05 <qgil> two things
Jun 05 21:07:19 <qgil> 1. We *really* want to see you there. You won't regret.
Jun 05 21:07:39 <beford> AStorm, yea, I just did that. The original problem is that the devices reboots at start up a couple of times, and then starts normaly
Jun 05 21:07:42 <beford> normally
Jun 05 21:07:42 <RST38h> what is the mime type for .install files?
Jun 05 21:07:54 <qgil> 2. Any berliner/german around? We are looking for a venue (the best candidate wasn't appropriate after all)
Jun 05 21:08:03 <hrw> qgil: I like OSiM location. Berlin is quite close for me
Jun 05 21:08:04 <AStorm> beford: hmm, check if battery is loose - seen that then ;>
Jun 05 21:08:32 <qgil> well, OSiM location is a 5 star hotel, which is a bit overdone for a maemo summit
Jun 05 21:09:01 <hrw> qgil: hotel is other thing ;)
Jun 05 21:09:04 <qgil> we have some budget, but we rather spending sponsoring people and food instead of paying for luxury
Jun 05 21:09:30 <lardman> OSiM sounds good to me, going to be a busy week that one
Jun 05 21:09:53 * pupnik reviews 2010 and 100days
Jun 05 21:09:54 <AStorm> hmm, september 19th... sounds nice
Jun 05 21:09:57 <lardman> X-Fade: You still here? I've got some "proper" news for you now :)
Jun 05 21:10:08 <AStorm> well, 100days doesn't have what I was thinking about yet
Jun 05 21:10:16 <qgil> the time is good for us, Berlin is well placed in the map and a business-centric conference can't harm maemo contributors nowadays  ;)
Jun 05 21:10:42 <AStorm> hmm, maybe it's on Identifying_transparency
Jun 05 21:10:47 <qgil> AStorm: because what you ask for is impossible in 100Days, basically  ;)
Jun 05 21:11:07 <qgil> look the Transparency link and the 2010 agenda
Jun 05 21:11:31 <AStorm> qgil: well, it's simple
Jun 05 21:11:41 * qgil re-reads above
Jun 05 21:11:52 <AStorm> just make a binary repository with the .debs that are in the standard flash image
Jun 05 21:11:55 <pupnik> The journalism experience shows: "In short: It should be friendly, understandable, deliberately incomplete, offer only the very best the community can give at any time." ;)
Jun 05 21:12:14 <AStorm> some that are there are nowhere to fetch from
Jun 05 21:12:14 <lcuk> hmmm incomplete
Jun 05 21:12:52 <pupnik> yes the poitn being to invite ongoing participation
Jun 05 21:13:04 <qgil> ah, I see, this is indeed something that nobody have proposed before in the brainstorm as far as I remember
Jun 05 21:13:21 <hrw> AStorm: for Nokia image which you flash is one package
Jun 05 21:13:29 <qgil> propose, explain the reasons why and I will look at it - need to ask some people
Jun 05 21:13:36 <GeneralAntilles> It'll be something of a non-issue with SSU, though, wont it?
Jun 05 21:13:49 <AStorm> hrw: heh, not exactly - it's built from subpackages, as you can see
Jun 05 21:13:54 <GeneralAntilles> I guess the SSU repo will only contain UPDATED stuff, but eventually that SHOULD be everything.
Jun 05 21:14:11 <AStorm> yes, that would be it
Jun 05 21:14:28 <AStorm> hmm, how to phrase it nicely enough for the wiki :-)
Jun 05 21:14:43 <qgil> I leave this to you  :)
Jun 05 21:14:54 <qgil> time for me to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz - good night!
Jun 05 21:14:58 <GeneralAntilles> 'night, qgil.
Jun 05 21:15:03 <lcuk> gnite qgil
Jun 05 21:15:13 <lardman> night
Jun 05 21:15:15 <AStorm> yes, time for so-called sleep
Jun 05 21:15:17 <AStorm> night people
Jun 05 21:15:24 <beford> night AStorm
Jun 05 21:15:29 <GeneralAntilles> Later
Jun 05 21:15:34 <beford> I'll try to reflash it
Jun 05 21:17:42 <RST38h> All right, I am now suporting .install files. Please test http://fms.komkon.org/Maemo/
Jun 05 21:18:02 <hrw> hmm.. I need to buy bigger stapler
Jun 05 21:18:02 <RST38h> All right, I am now supporting .install file generation. Please try fms.komkon.org/Maemo
Jun 05 21:18:31 <RST38h> Test
Jun 05 21:18:43 <pupnik> xterm: no results :)
Jun 05 21:20:01 <pupnik> RST38h: does section and repository need to be selected?
Jun 05 21:20:18 <pupnik> and why do i keep thinking you're french...
Jun 05 21:21:06 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, what's the difference between the two icons? (intentionally stupid question)
Jun 05 21:21:19 <RST38h> pupnik: no
Jun 05 21:21:27 <RST38h> it will be optional when implemented
Jun 05 21:21:42 <pupnik> what is a known working search term?
Jun 05 21:21:44 <RST38h> GA: First one downloads .deb directly, second one downloads .install file
Jun 05 21:21:49 <RST38h> pupnik: fmsx will do
Jun 05 21:21:54 <RST38h> or canola
Jun 05 21:21:59 <RST38h> or omweather
Jun 05 21:22:01 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, http://maemo.org/downloads/product/raw/OS2008/sdlquake/?get_installfile
Jun 05 21:22:18 <beford> http://fms.komkon.org/Maemo/index.php?Action=list&Platform=OS2008&Arg=%27%22%3E%3Cscript%3Ealert(/xss/)%3C/script%3E xss ftw
Jun 05 21:22:20 <GeneralAntilles> Personally, I think the direct .deb download should be featured much less prominently.
Jun 05 21:22:30 <GeneralAntilles> As it's (by a larger margin) the less preferred method.
Jun 05 21:22:34 <RST38h> maybe
Jun 05 21:22:47 <GeneralAntilles> You don't really want newbies clicking it.
Jun 05 21:23:06 <GeneralAntilles> It should only be there for convenience sake for people who know what they're doing it.
Jun 05 21:23:12 <pupnik> ok fmsx without OS, section or repository worked.  Specifiying OS2007 produced 0 hits.
Jun 05 21:23:28 <GeneralAntilles> Rather, I wanted this URL, RST38h: http://maemo.org/midcom-static/style_maemo2007/install_button_small.png
Jun 05 21:23:28 <pupnik> logically i suppose
Jun 05 21:23:40 <pupnik> nice resource RST38h
Jun 05 21:23:47 <lardman> lcuk: Did Quim want hard-copies or scans?
Jun 05 21:23:48 <RST38h> beford:beford: is it a hack?
Jun 05 21:23:49 <GeneralAntilles> Or this: http://maemo.org/midcom-static/style_maemo2007/install_button.png
Jun 05 21:24:05 <RST38h> GA: Will put them in
Jun 05 21:24:06 <lcuk> scan or photo of it printed and signed
Jun 05 21:24:14 <RST38h> GA: please give me one for download as well
Jun 05 21:24:16 <lardman> cool, thanks
Jun 05 21:24:38 <GeneralAntilles> That one I haven't got so handy, RST38h.
Jun 05 21:24:40 <RST38h> GA: Oh you mean the arrow
Jun 05 21:24:44 <edistar_> hi there, anyone here who has the OS 2007 HE running and ogg support up? I installed the mogg package but it doesn't seem to work
Jun 05 21:24:45 <lcuk> i had signed bill and sent that but didnt sign the expenses form
Jun 05 21:24:45 <GeneralAntilles> At least not maemo-themed.
Jun 05 21:24:55 <RST38h> GA: I would use it but I need 2 icons of the same size and style at the moment
Jun 05 21:25:05 <RST38h> Unless I have two, can't use it
Jun 05 21:25:10 <lardman> lcuk: Cool
Jun 05 21:25:22 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, I really would de-emphasize the direct .deb download
Jun 05 21:25:53 <GeneralAntilles> As it would both free up a column for a wider description field and alleviate newbie confusion.
Jun 05 21:25:54 <RST38h> Maybe but for now I need both of them
Jun 05 21:26:07 <GeneralAntilles> and sticking with the maemo-icons is a high priority.
Jun 05 21:26:32 <beford> RST38h, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_scripting
Jun 05 21:27:11 <beford> RST38h, if you have something like a forum, weblog, etc hosted under the same domain, it may allow to some users steal data from other users
Jun 05 21:31:54 <lcuk> what can i crop and edit video with?
Jun 05 21:32:08 <lcuk> ive just done a quick few minutes with my program and i wanna cull the cruft
Jun 05 21:32:20 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: I've been adding usage information to my templates (see http://wiki.maemo.org/Template:Plan_metadata for example) wrapped in <noinclude>...</noinclude>
Jun 05 21:33:13 <GAN800> Yeah, a documentation template for templates is also on my list.
Jun 05 21:33:43 * hrw -> bed
Jun 05 21:34:31 <RST38h> beford: I will fix it in a moment
Jun 05 21:34:50 <GeneralAntilles> I wish there were some sort of basic "wikipedia templates and styles" plugin you could add to a mediawiki install.
Jun 05 21:35:15 * Jaffa wonders if it's bad etiquette to push his own Community Council idea to the pre-agreed bit of 100Days. qgil's semi-agreed (or caved in), and there's been a few voices of support *and* 11 favourites on the blog post. Still, seems a bit... pushy.
Jun 05 21:35:34 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: yeah, annoyed I couldn't get a nice styled table in Plan_metadata without doing it all by hand.
Jun 05 21:36:04 <GeneralAntilles> We need to push as much of the style stuff to a central style sheet as possible.
Jun 05 21:36:21 <Jaffa> Ah, it was done already in Task:Community_Council, ta GeneralAntilles
Jun 05 21:36:34 <GeneralAntilles> Thank qgil
Jun 05 21:36:56 <Jaffa> Ah, indeed.
Jun 05 21:37:08 * Jaffa didn't scroll down far enough in the Recent changes.
Jun 05 21:37:14 * Jaffa goes off to holiday happy now. Well, later.
Jun 05 21:37:18 <Jaffa> Spod first. Sleep later.
Jun 05 21:37:37 <GeneralAntilles> Have fun, Jaffa.
Jun 05 21:37:41 <GeneralAntilles> Catch yah on the flip side.
Jun 05 21:37:56 <Jaffa> Oh tomorrow evening when I'm trying to escape my mother-in-law on the layover ;-)
Jun 05 21:40:01 * Jaffa beds. G'night, see y'all later.
Jun 05 21:40:28 <lardman> Night all, see you tomorrow
Jun 05 21:43:45 <lcuk> select a video to upload
Jun 05 21:44:17 * lcuk isnt very patient tonight
Jun 05 21:44:35 * GeneralAntilles throws molasses on lcuk.
Jun 05 21:45:07 <lcuk> im pacing, even the missus just commented..
Jun 05 21:47:01 * lcuk uses a hand crank on his internet
Jun 05 21:47:21 <GeneralAntilles> This make sense to anybody? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3226
Jun 05 21:47:53 <lcuk> yes, the header can then be used in c++
Jun 05 21:48:23 <GeneralAntilles> Want to put a comment elaborating a bit since the submitter didn't bother?
Jun 05 21:50:08 <lcuk> another account i dont have?
Jun 05 21:50:40 <lcuk> this is what i believe he thinks is required: http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/mixing-c-and-cpp.html#faq-32.4
Jun 05 21:51:04 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, think of it as an opportunity. :P
Jun 05 21:51:45 <lcuk> no, ive joined too many places tonight/thisweek, the credit line on my password memory is getting low
Jun 05 21:52:04 <lcuk> i need to give things time to bed in or i wont remember them
Jun 05 21:52:36 * lcuk still waiting for youtube
Jun 05 21:52:43 <lcuk> its only 59mb
Jun 05 21:54:36 <GeneralAntilles> How can you go to maemo conferences and not have a bugzilla account? . . .
Jun 05 21:55:14 <sp3000> because the conf registration isn't in bugzilla :P
Jun 05 21:56:39 <hans-castorp> yeo people
Jun 05 21:56:41 <sp3000> GeneralAntilles: re 3226, the submitter is in channel
Jun 05 21:57:19 <GeneralAntilles> dougt, mind elaborating on #3226?
Jun 05 21:57:26 <zpol> hi
Jun 05 21:57:51 <rm_you_> HA back
Jun 05 21:58:03 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you, you totally missed X-Fade.
Jun 05 21:58:09 <rm_you> >_<
Jun 05 21:58:09 <GeneralAntilles> By, like, miles upon miles upon miles.
Jun 05 21:58:12 <lcuk> ~lart the internet
Jun 05 21:58:12 * infobot teaches the internet the basics, including how to RTM
Jun 05 21:58:17 <rm_you> yeah was gone for like 4 days
Jun 05 21:58:24 <rm_you> lol
Jun 05 21:59:06 <GeneralAntilles> I can't find the URL for the Extras access request form, now. :P
Jun 05 21:59:10 <rm_you> yeah
Jun 05 21:59:12 <rm_you> >_<
Jun 05 22:00:08 <GeneralAntilles> So total fail. :P
Jun 05 22:00:27 <GeneralAntilles> Anyway, should be in the vicinity of one of your highlights
Jun 05 22:01:13 <rm_you> >_>
Jun 05 22:01:23 <rm_you> i dont think my logs go back much further than about yesterday
Jun 05 22:01:25 <rm_you> if that
Jun 05 22:01:26 <lcuk> oh shitbags
Jun 05 22:03:10 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you, here it is: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php?target=invitation_request
Jun 05 22:08:09 <rm_you> K, did a request
Jun 05 22:08:38 <rm_you> so, i was TRYING to work on stuff again last weekend
Jun 05 22:08:49 <rm_you> and was just getting frustrated
Jun 05 22:09:10 <GeneralAntilles> Did you stomp around in a circle like a toddler having a tantrum? :P
Jun 05 22:09:41 <rm_you> I tried to impliment that stuff timeless sent and realized that has nothing to do with my issue, since i'm still almost positive they're somehow getting those GTK slider widgets into a HildonMenu somehow, which is how they get it to look and function that way
Jun 05 22:10:10 <GeneralAntilles> What's the issue when you try to do the same?
Jun 05 22:10:12 <rm_you> also, i figured i should get the custom list icon working, and figured out that it is seemingly impossible to get custom icons to work
Jun 05 22:10:37 <rm_you> i even swapped out the image files for every single applet in the list and it didnt change the image
Jun 05 22:10:50 <rm_you> for any of them
Jun 05 22:11:01 <rm_you> it's like they don't even use the images on the filesystem
Jun 05 22:11:15 <lcuk> is that a cache issue
Jun 05 22:11:17 <rm_you> i think the statusbar list images are contained in the flash somewhere
Jun 05 22:11:23 <rm_you> i rebooted like 4 times...
Jun 05 22:11:40 <lcuk> which icons do you mean?
Jun 05 22:11:45 <lcuk> like the power one
Jun 05 22:11:57 <rm_you> control panel -> panels -> second tab
Jun 05 22:12:18 <rm_you> the icons that show up next to their names in the list there
Jun 05 22:12:26 <rm_you> the .desktop files show the image name to be used
Jun 05 22:12:45 <rm_you> which are located in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/26x26/hildon/
Jun 05 22:13:12 <rm_you> for example, the bluetooth statusbar supposedly uses "/usr/share/icons/hicolor/26x26/hildon/qgn_list_cp_bluetooth.png" in the list
Jun 05 22:13:30 <rm_you> but i can replace that image with any of the other ones or my own, and it never changes
Jun 05 22:13:32 <rm_you> even on reboot
Jun 05 22:13:50 <rm_you> and if i change the image in the .desktop to point to the SAME png file, just renamed, it won't work
Jun 05 22:14:12 <rm_you> it then just has a blank space and no image
Jun 05 22:14:58 <rm_you> but if you change the .desktop file to tell it to use a different statusbar applet's image, it changes immediately to that
Jun 05 22:15:02 <lcuk> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12700
Jun 05 22:15:02 <rm_you> it just has to be one of the stock ones
Jun 05 22:15:17 <dougt> GeneralAntilles: yeah, sorry.
Jun 05 22:15:29 <lcuk> expand on your frustration on a post there rm, and then if it all gets resolved it can be clarified for the wiki
Jun 05 22:15:52 <GeneralAntilles> No worries, just want to make sure things that can be fixed get fixed and good bug information is the first step on that path. ;)
Jun 05 22:15:57 <GeneralAntilles> ls
Jun 05 22:16:01 <GeneralAntilles> wrong window
Jun 05 22:16:26 <rm_you> lol
Jun 05 22:17:20 <GeneralAntilles> Now I've just got to find the tablet I was just sshing into to test out the new CSS. . . . :\
Jun 05 22:26:04 <dougt> GeneralAntilles: updated.
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 05 22:31:24 2008
Jun 05 22:32:44 <dougt> is future a bad thing?
Jun 05 22:34:46 <GeneralAntilles> dougt, nah, that should be default.
Jun 05 22:35:02 <GeneralAntilles> Until somebody who can actually do something about it fixes it and tells us which version the fix will be in.
Jun 05 22:35:30 <dougt> GeneralAntilles: i can fix it, i suppose.  I can send a diff of the file correct.
Jun 05 22:35:39 * dougt corrected, even. :-)
Jun 05 22:35:46 <GeneralAntilles> Providing a patch would be useful.
Jun 05 22:35:56 <dougt> but I am not sure where in the world it would be checked into.
Jun 05 22:36:09 <dougt> but it is a pretty trivial fix either way.
Jun 05 22:36:21 <GeneralAntilles> Just add the patch as an attachment to the bug
Jun 05 22:45:09 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: has anyone filed a bug about the icon thing that you're aware of?
Jun 05 22:45:15 <rm_you> i guess i'm really asking anyone...
Jun 05 22:45:24 <GeneralAntilles> No, rm_you.
Jun 05 22:45:29 <GeneralAntilles> I think there's a cache, though.
Jun 05 22:45:40 <GeneralAntilles> I remember seeing something on itT
Jun 05 22:45:55 <rm_you> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12700
Jun 05 22:45:58 <rm_you> read my post
Jun 05 22:46:09 <dneary> GeneralAntilles: https://wiki.maemo.org/MAG:Categorization
Jun 05 22:46:21 <dneary> I did a bit of work this evening
Jun 05 22:47:27 <rm_you> this is really making me hate working on maemo stuff >_>
Jun 05 22:47:30 <jldiaz> hello
Jun 05 22:48:22 <jldiaz> I've installed screen for maemo. This is a piece of software I find very useful, and I'm glad that it was "maemized"
Jun 05 22:48:52 <GeneralAntilles> Awesome, dneary.
Jun 05 22:48:52 <jldiaz> however, the "official" version has no support for 256 color terminals, which is a pity, because osso-xterm is a 256 color terminal
Jun 05 22:48:54 <rm_you> yes... <3 screen
Jun 05 22:49:12 <dneary> GeneralAntilles: Gives a clear TODO list for the migration, which we were missing.
Jun 05 22:49:17 <dneary> Which was my fault :)
Jun 05 22:49:22 <GeneralAntilles> :P
Jun 05 22:49:22 <jldiaz> So I tried to compile my own screen, from the sources, in scratchbox
Jun 05 22:49:26 <jldiaz> but was unable to
Jun 05 22:50:18 <jldiaz> I'm thinking now about contact the person wich created the package screen_4.0.3-0.3osso2_armel.deb
Jun 05 22:50:40 <jldiaz> and asking him to enable the support for 256 colors (it is only a switch in the configure)
Jun 05 22:50:44 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you, is there nothing on statusbar icons in the official documentation?
Jun 05 22:51:06 <jldiaz> according with apt-cache info, the maintainer is maemo integration <integration@maemo.org>
Jun 05 22:51:06 <rm_you> nope
Jun 05 22:51:11 <jldiaz> is this a real person?
Jun 05 22:51:18 <rm_you> i've looked and looked and looked
Jun 05 22:51:31 <rm_you> they just say "set the desktop file like this"
Jun 05 22:53:02 <GeneralAntilles> Try the mailing list?
Jun 05 22:53:08 <GeneralAntilles> Probably net you a better response than itT, anyway.
Jun 05 22:53:09 <lcuk> how long does youtube processing normally take
Jun 05 22:54:34 <jldiaz> oh
Jun 05 22:54:36 <jldiaz> silly of me
Jun 05 22:54:46 <jldiaz> I was trying to compile the standard screen release
Jun 05 22:55:06 <jldiaz> but now I issued an "apt-get source screen" in the scratchbox
Jun 05 22:55:11 <jldiaz> and compiled that source code
Jun 05 22:55:18 <jldiaz> that apparently is patched for osso
Jun 05 22:55:25 <jldiaz> and it compiles now without problem
Jun 05 22:55:34 <lcuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI
Jun 05 22:55:39 <jldiaz> so I can fix myself the 256 color issue!
Jun 05 22:56:36 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=189180&postcount=5 ?
Jun 05 22:57:11 * lcuk trembles
Jun 05 22:58:29 <Maximander> How do I install build tools inside maemo dev env? sb2 apt-get install gengetopt doesn't work...
Jun 05 22:58:40 <rm_you> *(@&$)(%
Jun 05 22:59:32 <rm_you> oh god now all my icons are screwed up >_<
Jun 05 22:59:39 <rm_you> ooo advanced backlight icon :P
Jun 05 23:00:06 <rm_you> yay
Jun 05 23:00:30 <GeneralAntilles> Pfft
Jun 05 23:00:37 * GeneralAntilles pokes rm_you with a stick.
Jun 05 23:00:39 <GeneralAntilles> Feel better now?
Jun 05 23:00:46 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, you're such a hooker
Jun 05 23:00:46 <rm_you> very
Jun 05 23:00:50 <GeneralAntilles> where's my binaries? :P
Jun 05 23:01:12 <lcuk> theres an oldish one on my site
Jun 05 23:01:24 <GeneralAntilles> Where are my new binaries? :P
Jun 05 23:01:27 <GeneralAntilles> I've seen the old one.
Jun 05 23:01:39 <lcuk> but its way out of date atm, i need real time to work on this and other ideas ive got
Jun 05 23:02:13 * lcuk could spend real time actually finalizing features and put energy towards packaging
Jun 05 23:02:44 <lcuk> as it stands right now, everything is going smoothly enough that 10 years of waiting ideas are starting to come out
Jun 05 23:04:06 <lcuk> i feel comfortable on this device and with the tools im building around me, and everything i finish leads to the bigger step i see re-opening back up
Jun 05 23:04:53 <GeneralAntilles> I'd just get a book reader out the door first.
Jun 05 23:05:44 <lcuk> book reader needs an interface for file selection.  that needs an object model to handle it
Jun 05 23:06:16 <lcuk> sketches are quite good ways to convey quick information so UI elements will be built out of those floating around
Jun 05 23:06:49 <rm_you> ok, one down
Jun 05 23:06:51 <rm_you> >_<
Jun 05 23:06:58 <lcuk> like the menu system, i feel comfortable using it, its quick and simple, but doesnt work for files (I tried)
Jun 05 23:08:01 <rm_you> ok, now to figure out how to do theme iconsets
Jun 05 23:08:09 <lcuk> laying out of the sketches is almost a file selector, i was testing the scaling and rendering speed and aspect correctness of drawing and rendering at different resolutions
Jun 05 23:08:58 <rm_you> anyone have any first thoughts on how I find out which theme is currently active? (in C)
Jun 05 23:09:04 <lcuk> goto themes
Jun 05 23:09:08 <lcuk> it opens with the current one
Jun 05 23:09:26 <lcuk> -my help
Jun 05 23:09:27 <rm_you> can I actually do it with a Gtk command or will it be hildon specific?
Jun 05 23:09:31 <rm_you> lcuk: lol?
Jun 05 23:09:34 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you, didn't we figure that out before?
Jun 05 23:09:45 <lcuk> i missed the (in c) bit, mine was interactive user
Jun 05 23:09:48 <rm_you> no, because if i can figure THAT out, it's basically done
Jun 05 23:09:51 <rm_you> yeah, :P
Jun 05 23:10:02 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you, we had this discussion about LCARS.
Jun 05 23:10:06 <rm_you> right
Jun 05 23:10:09 <GeneralAntilles> There's a Gtk method for it.
Jun 05 23:10:12 <rm_you> thats what this is for
Jun 05 23:10:16 <rm_you> right, i don't know what it is :P
Jun 05 23:10:22 <rm_you> so it IS gtk?
Jun 05 23:10:23 <GeneralAntilles> Search the logs, or something. :P
Jun 05 23:10:27 <GeneralAntilles> I think so.
Jun 05 23:10:28 <rm_you> hildon doesnt do its themes differently?
Jun 05 23:10:48 <rm_you> like, if i say "what theme are we using" via the GTK command, it'll actually tell me "LCARS"?\
Jun 05 23:10:59 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
Jun 05 23:11:06 <GeneralAntilles> Something else uses it.
Jun 05 23:11:20 <hans-castorp> yeo. does anyone know how to disable matchbox?
Jun 05 23:12:03 <hans-castorp> so I can boot to the console?
Jun 05 23:13:25 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: ah wow, its been a while... just went to add some code for gtk_icon_theme... it's already in there... with a whole "Comin soon!" comment block and a bunch of attempts >_<
Jun 05 23:13:38 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Jun 05 23:13:55 <rm_you> damn. i havent worked on this in a LONG time have i
Jun 05 23:14:08 <rm_you> that or i have horrible memory... which i THINK is true... i don't really remember
Jun 05 23:14:36 <GeneralAntilles> It's been months.
Jun 05 23:15:57 <GeneralAntilles> Proper theming setup, proper Hildon menu, settings dialog and you're done.
Jun 05 23:16:22 <rm_you> heh... *proper* theming setup...
Jun 05 23:16:38 * rm_you was tempted to hardcore LCARs
Jun 05 23:17:08 <GAN800> Ha
Jun 05 23:20:01 <GAN800> Be nice to see some progress on the adv-connectivity applet.
Jun 05 23:20:38 <lcuk> rm_you, do you listen for dbus events and change backlight and stuff according to it
Jun 05 23:20:56 <rm_you> lcuk: at the moment, no
Jun 05 23:21:07 <rm_you> i should... :/
Jun 05 23:21:11 <lcuk> are you still writing to the /dev/brightness file or whatever it was
Jun 05 23:21:14 <rm_you> no
Jun 05 23:21:20 <lcuk> what method are you using now
Jun 05 23:21:25 <rm_you> all using DSME for brightness
Jun 05 23:21:28 <GAN800> dsme
Jun 05 23:21:34 <lcuk> cool
Jun 05 23:21:45 <lcuk> can you get at cpu threshhold modes from in there?
Jun 05 23:21:52 <rm_you> lcuk: don't know
Jun 05 23:21:59 <rm_you> DSME is kind of an enigma
Jun 05 23:22:04 <GAN800> Be cool if there were a good way of interfacing with the light sensor, too.
Jun 05 23:22:20 <lcuk> cos i would kinda like to change cpu performance anytime without having to load my program to do it for me
Jun 05 23:22:44 <rm_you> no, doesnt look like it
Jun 05 23:22:48 <GAN800> Put together an applet, then, lcuk.
Jun 05 23:22:53 <lcuk> though it makes no difference, the cpu on performance and no wifi lasts all day
Jun 05 23:23:13 <rm_you> http://pastebin.ca/1039899
Jun 05 23:23:18 <lcuk> but thats a whole nother step of training gan,
Jun 05 23:23:39 <GeneralAntilles> Hijacking adv-backlight will be easy.
Jun 05 23:23:45 <rm_you> lcuk: ^^
Jun 05 23:23:46 <rm_you> lol
Jun 05 23:24:03 <lcuk> for a very small purpose, meanwhile ive got the functions to change the cpu threshhold, and rm is writing desktop applets, collaboration would be good ;)
Jun 05 23:24:31 <rm_you> :P
Jun 05 23:24:37 <rm_you> I could help out with that i suppose
Jun 05 23:24:46 <lcuk> im serious, running this on performance makes entire desktop feel snappier
Jun 05 23:24:50 <rm_you> you want one with a CPU slider?
Jun 05 23:24:59 <lcuk> its just basically 3 options
Jun 05 23:25:01 <rm_you> that would be handy for me too
Jun 05 23:25:18 <rm_you> considering I need to up the CPU to play music over a2dp
Jun 05 23:25:34 <GeneralAntilles> Well, hopefully not for long.
Jun 05 23:25:34 <lcuk> powersave (always slow), ondemand (slowish, meant to speed up as required),  performance (full speed)
Jun 05 23:25:35 <rm_you> and right now i do it by changing the scaling file
Jun 05 23:25:52 <rm_you> lcuk: doable... and could have a real menu :P
Jun 05 23:25:58 <rm_you> since you don't need crazy widgets
Jun 05 23:26:17 <rm_you> that wouldnt take too long if you give me the code for changing the cpu speed
Jun 05 23:26:19 <lcuk> yes, well thats all ive wrapped around, but the functions are clean and know when things need changing :)
Jun 05 23:26:33 <rm_you> lol
Jun 05 23:27:02 <rm_you> couldn't you just make them into scripts and add them to osso-statusbar-cpu's menu>
Jun 05 23:27:03 <rm_you> ?
Jun 05 23:27:31 <GeneralAntilles> or Personal Menu
Jun 05 23:28:35 <rm_you> so GeneralAntilles: do you think hardcoding the LCARs iconset would be ok?
Jun 05 23:28:42 <rm_you> or do we want *proper* theming support
Jun 05 23:28:43 <GeneralAntilles> No. :P
Jun 05 23:28:48 <GeneralAntilles> Proper
Jun 05 23:28:49 <rm_you> i can fo the first one in like... an hour
Jun 05 23:28:57 <rm_you> the other one, estimated date TBA :P
Jun 05 23:29:03 <johnx> hey rm_you
Jun 05 23:29:07 <rm_you> sup johnx
Jun 05 23:29:08 <GeneralAntilles> Package spam for one theme is lame.
Jun 05 23:29:14 <rm_you> >_>
Jun 05 23:29:22 <rm_you> well, I remain at a loss
Jun 05 23:29:30 <GeneralAntilles> Is it documented in the gtk docs?
Jun 05 23:29:30 <rm_you> this iconset stuff isn't actually what i wanted
Jun 05 23:29:41 <rm_you> i think the theme is a Hildon thing not a GTK thing
Jun 05 23:29:47 <rm_you> iconsets would be like... "hicolor"
Jun 05 23:29:50 <rm_you> but EVERYTHING is in hicolor
Jun 05 23:29:58 <rm_you> hildon themes are different
Jun 05 23:30:24 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm, is there any open applet whose icon changes with the theme?
Jun 05 23:30:33 <rm_you> ...
Jun 05 23:31:17 <johnx> why not look at how the LCARS theme .deb actually does this
Jun 05 23:31:18 <johnx> ?
Jun 05 23:31:26 <GeneralAntilles> Does what?
Jun 05 23:31:30 <GeneralAntilles> Installs icons? :P
Jun 05 23:31:35 <johnx> I seem to recall someone saying they just replaced the icons anyways
Jun 05 23:31:42 <rm_you> johnx: yes, possible
Jun 05 23:31:48 <GeneralAntilles> The system stuff that doesn't change with the theme.
Jun 05 23:31:54 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: HA!
Jun 05 23:31:55 <GeneralAntilles> But the themable icons are handled by the applets.
Jun 05 23:31:59 <rm_you> thanks johnx, i have an idea
Jun 05 23:32:02 <johnx> in which case there isn't really theming support...
Jun 05 23:32:17 <GeneralAntilles> The statusbar applets handle the theme change on their own.
Jun 05 23:32:32 <GeneralAntilles> But, for instance, the boot image isn't themable.
Jun 05 23:32:37 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: what if: we package iconsets their own debs, right? advanced-backlight-theme-lcars
Jun 05 23:32:38 <rm_you> right?
Jun 05 23:32:49 <rm_you> just follow me here
Jun 05 23:32:55 <GeneralAntilles> I'm following. . . .
Jun 05 23:33:01 <rm_you> we have that installer move the old icons to like... ./old/
Jun 05 23:33:08 <rm_you> and then just put in the new icons
Jun 05 23:33:21 <rm_you> WAIT
Jun 05 23:33:22 <rm_you> no
Jun 05 23:33:24 <rm_you> new idea
Jun 05 23:33:26 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Jun 05 23:33:27 <johnx> heh
Jun 05 23:33:39 <rm_you> there are folders in the icons/adv-backlight/ folder
Jun 05 23:33:41 <rm_you> original/
Jun 05 23:33:44 * GeneralAntilles starts throwing scissors at rm_you to make it interesting.
Jun 05 23:33:46 <rm_you> and then one for each iconset
Jun 05 23:33:50 <rm_you> right?
Jun 05 23:33:56 <GeneralAntilles> OK
Jun 05 23:33:57 <rm_you> and then a symlink current/
Jun 05 23:34:13 <johnx> sure...isn't the hard part detecting theme change?
Jun 05 23:34:15 <rm_you> and then when i add the options pane, it has a dropdown for each folder of icons
Jun 05 23:34:15 <lcuk> http://www.pastebin.ca/1039908
Jun 05 23:34:19 <rm_you> and it just changes the symlink
Jun 05 23:34:26 <rm_you> no, the user selects it
Jun 05 23:34:31 <johnx> ah
Jun 05 23:34:37 <johnx> fair enough
Jun 05 23:34:37 <rm_you> it *works*
Jun 05 23:34:42 <rm_you> most people would accept it probably
Jun 05 23:34:46 <GeneralAntilles> Bleh
Jun 05 23:34:49 <rm_you> and it actually lets you do other things too
Jun 05 23:34:55 <GeneralAntilles> There's a perfectly good interface for doing the properly.
Jun 05 23:34:59 * johnx agrees
Jun 05 23:35:00 <lcuk> john... http://www.youtube.com/v/PUPp_mE7rwI
Jun 05 23:35:01 <GeneralAntilles> We just need to find somebody who has used it.
Jun 05 23:35:09 <rm_you> johnx: agrees with me or him?
Jun 05 23:35:10 <rm_you> :P
Jun 05 23:35:21 * johnx agrees with rm_you 
Jun 05 23:35:24 <rm_you> lol
Jun 05 23:35:29 <rm_you> k, i'm doing it
Jun 05 23:35:29 <GeneralAntilles> It's so dirty.
Jun 05 23:35:33 <GeneralAntilles> symlink is gross, anyway.
Jun 05 23:35:35 <rm_you> it's so... useful
Jun 05 23:35:40 <GeneralAntilles> Why not just do the selection in the code?
Jun 05 23:35:43 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, WTH do you want to do?
Jun 05 23:35:44 <GeneralAntilles> Instead of the filesystem. . . .
Jun 05 23:35:46 <rm_you> and it's decently clean considering the *alternative* i was discussing
Jun 05 23:36:00 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, point
Jun 05 23:36:03 <rm_you> pff, i guess i could
Jun 05 23:36:08 <rm_you> fine
Jun 05 23:36:10 <johnx> lcuk, watched it once. will watch again :)
Jun 05 23:36:18 <rm_you> but still, that system works for you, right?
Jun 05 23:36:25 <johnx> rm_you, why not prefix icons with default_foo.png, lcars_foo.png
Jun 05 23:36:29 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, use the proper theme selector so there's no user-interaction involved in picking the correct icon set. ;)
Jun 05 23:36:34 <pupnik> nice vid lcuk
Jun 05 23:36:37 <rm_you> johnx: cluttered >_>
Jun 05 23:36:42 <GeneralAntilles> As a stop-gap, I guess.
Jun 05 23:36:48 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, which is fine, unless you *want* a different icon set
Jun 05 23:37:07 <rm_you> which was my point with "and lets you do other stuff too" :P
Jun 05 23:37:17 * rm_you agrees with johnx
Jun 05 23:37:18 <lcuk> heh pupnik, i had to get *something* up :)
Jun 05 23:37:34 <rm_you> ok... i'm going to... take a shower, and think it over
Jun 05 23:37:35 <pupnik> you just added text hilighting?
Jun 05 23:37:40 <rm_you> when i get back i'll start coding
Jun 05 23:38:04 <lcuk> lol, no its been there all along taunting me - i wanna do it, but ive been refactoring something else
Jun 05 23:38:11 <GeneralAntilles> The way THAT should be done is that the default setting is to use the current theme's iconset, and that can be overridden in the prefs if the user wants to.
Jun 05 23:38:18 <lcuk> everytime i scroll past it i think "of yer"
Jun 05 23:38:21 <lcuk> oh yer
Jun 05 23:38:32 <GeneralAntilles> OK, whatever, implement it, we'll figure out the correct method later. :P
Jun 05 23:38:38 <lcuk> and the bloody big PUPNIK optimise note keeps getting me
Jun 05 23:39:33 <pupnik> no worries mate
Jun 05 23:40:22 <johnx> lcuk, that is pretty damn slick :D
Jun 05 23:40:30 <GeneralAntilles> Binaries!
Jun 05 23:42:01 <rm_you> lcuk: does that read text only or can it do pdf? :P
Jun 05 23:42:38 <pupnik> i took a .ps file to a print shop today and they didn't know what postscript was
Jun 05 23:42:44 <rm_you> lol
Jun 05 23:42:46 <pupnik> >_<
Jun 05 23:42:48 <lcuk> well - as you can see i can render arbitary text at any location and scroll around it, is there a nice pdf parser around which would give me a page model?
Jun 05 23:42:55 <lcuk> holy poo pupnik
Jun 05 23:43:01 <rm_you> no idea :/
Jun 05 23:43:04 <rm_you> ack, right, shower
Jun 05 23:43:20 <rm_you> also: lcuk: BINARIES
Jun 05 23:43:50 <lcuk> look hard enough if you are desperate, there is a preprepre release version around somewhere
Jun 05 23:43:51 <GeneralAntilles> ^
Jun 05 23:43:52 <rm_you> ....
Jun 05 23:44:01 <rm_you> give us your current binary :P meanie
Jun 05 23:44:01 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, this isn't the Windows world. :P
Jun 05 23:44:16 <GeneralAntilles> We don't handle not being able to get ahold of stuff very well.
Jun 05 23:44:32 <GeneralAntilles> and nobody cares if things aren't 100% up to speed.
Jun 05 23:44:40 <rm_you> pass over the binary before I cry about source :P
Jun 05 23:44:47 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Jun 05 23:44:56 <GeneralAntilles> There's the other benefit
Jun 05 23:45:04 <GeneralAntilles> We'll shut up about sources for a while if you give us binaries.
Jun 05 23:45:05 <lcuk> well you will have to hold on more, i cant have you lot all creating data and stuff and me having to manage it and have legacy before ive even started.  its all being rebuilt
Jun 05 23:45:14 <rm_you> pft
Jun 05 23:45:18 <GeneralAntilles> ^
Jun 05 23:45:24 <rm_you> just release with "note: this will break on updates"
Jun 05 23:45:30 <rm_you> seriously... it's us.
Jun 05 23:45:32 <rm_you> like we'd care
Jun 05 23:45:36 <lcuk> i cant, i aim to keep everything im writing
Jun 05 23:45:44 * rm_you dies
Jun 05 23:45:51 <johnx> an irc log is writing!
Jun 05 23:46:03 <lcuk> but i must be able to categorize it :)
Jun 05 23:46:11 <rm_you> ok... lets just say... you accidentally put a binary on a server somewhere
Jun 05 23:46:12 <johnx> just include this log in the .deb as an example text :D
Jun 05 23:46:17 <rm_you> and you "accidentally" notice us a link to iut
Jun 05 23:46:25 <lcuk> 37mb so far john :) from the day i installed xchat to now
Jun 05 23:46:33 <rm_you> and we "accidentally" download it and lose the link
Jun 05 23:46:51 <johnx> lcuk, and the tablet has 128MB, so no problem, right ;)
Jun 05 23:47:09 <lcuk> well, now you mention it, its writing to internal 2gb
Jun 05 23:47:28 <lcuk> and thats not got too much space available, even less cos of the corruption
Jun 05 23:47:36 <lcuk> so the clock is ticking for me
Jun 05 23:48:04 <rm_you> so... upload a binary somewhere temporarily and link us to it, before we start spamming you :P
Jun 05 23:48:06 <lcuk> rm_you, just putting a binary somewhere wouldnt help
Jun 05 23:48:09 <rm_you> lol
Jun 05 23:48:12 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk fails at open source. :P
Jun 05 23:48:24 <rm_you> fine... i'll work on your "patience" thing...
Jun 05 23:48:26 <lcuk> :) of course
Jun 05 23:48:35 <rm_you> i dunno how well that'll work out tho. i can't promise i won't explode
Jun 05 23:48:45 * rm_you has wanted a decent bookreader for a long time
Jun 05 23:48:54 <rm_you> lcuk: if you give me the source, i could work on PDF support :P
Jun 05 23:48:58 * rm_you nudges lcuk 
Jun 05 23:49:11 <GeneralAntilles> I'm worried about bookmarking with that weird scrollyness.
Jun 05 23:49:15 <lcuk> i could port the pdf parser i wrote for vb, but that would just sidetrack me
Jun 05 23:49:23 <rm_you> lcuk: right. so let me do it
Jun 05 23:49:46 <lcuk> geniune interest rm?
Jun 05 23:50:06 <rm_you> I'd work on it, yeah... i really want a decent pdf ebook reader >_<
Jun 05 23:50:14 <rm_you> it's seriously been annoying me for months
Jun 05 23:50:20 <rm_you> and i have a book on my n800 i want to read
Jun 05 23:50:28 <lcuk> its a rather simplistic graphics library, ive not tested images yet, but it can load a range of fonts and draw them
Jun 05 23:50:30 <Dekaritae> Yay, less problems now
Jun 05 23:50:31 <rm_you> but i can't cause of lack of decent bookreader for pdf >_<
Jun 05 23:51:02 <lcuk> as you have seen location and positioning is easy - it might work as a library..
Jun 05 23:51:05 <Dekaritae> Still can't install apps from maemo.org, but respositories work
Jun 05 23:51:14 <rm_you> tar cfv source.tar sourcedirectory/ && cp source.tar /var/www/
Jun 05 23:51:28 <lcuk> rm, where arey ou
Jun 05 23:51:35 <rm_you> ?
Jun 05 23:51:39 <lcuk> location, world
Jun 05 23:51:43 <rm_you> Washington State, US
Jun 05 23:51:56 <lcuk> damn, why have i always thought you were english
Jun 05 23:51:59 <rm_you> heh
Jun 05 23:52:04 <rm_you> cause thats when i'm awake?
Jun 05 23:52:07 <rm_you> :P
Jun 05 23:52:31 <lcuk> no not always :) its your mannerisms
Jun 05 23:52:36 <rm_you> heh
Jun 05 23:52:45 <rm_you> I watch a lot of british TV?
Jun 05 23:52:56 <rm_you> *a lot*
Jun 05 23:53:35 <rm_you> anyways, been putting off taking a shower for a long time now...
Jun 05 23:53:38 <rm_you> sooo
Jun 05 23:53:41 <rm_you> think about it, i'll bbl
Jun 05 23:54:16 <lcuk> k
Jun 05 23:59:50 <pupnik> i wonder if a #maemo-pub channel would be appropriate
Jun 06 00:01:30 <lcuk> i think we skip the #maemo- part and get straight to the pub :)
Jun 06 00:03:11 <Dekaritae> What options has one for calendars on Maemo?
Jun 06 00:03:58 <pupnik> GPE
Jun 06 00:04:09 <Dekaritae> Or, directly linking flash applications from the Applications menu?
Jun 06 00:04:18 <GeneralAntilles> I don't think we're at critical mass yet, pupnik.
Jun 06 00:04:22 <lcuk> if you wedge a hook on the top of you maemo, you are able to install pretty much any calendar you can find in the shops.  it just looks a bit untidy and not hildonized at the moment
Jun 06 00:04:34 <pupnik> what's that newish launcher called that can launch stuff
Jun 06 00:04:42 <lcuk> a rocket?
Jun 06 00:04:55 <Dekaritae> Personal Menu
Jun 06 00:04:58 <Dekaritae> Yes, I use it
Jun 06 00:05:05 <pupnik> can that launch .swf ?
Jun 06 00:05:11 <lcuk> yer, jott shown me that at linuxtag :)
Jun 06 00:05:15 <lcuk> -yer
Jun 06 00:05:22 <lcuk> dunno about .swf
Jun 06 00:05:32 <Dekaritae> I have tried with the path to the flash file as the parameter for the web browser, and it launched without the flash file
Jun 06 00:05:33 <lcuk> you can launch a .sh and do whatever from inthere
Jun 06 00:05:56 <pupnik> i think unique311 also made a flash games collection with an index page
Jun 06 00:06:17 <lcuk> do we have a standalone flash viewer?
Jun 06 00:06:27 <pupnik> duno
Jun 06 00:06:39 <Dekaritae> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14317&highlight=media+info
Jun 06 00:06:41 <lcuk> does anyone have the skills to take the plugin and host it
Jun 06 00:09:31 <pupnik> there's gnash
Jun 06 00:10:03 <pupnik> me and some friends were doing a flash-like protocol for BBS's back in 1988
Jun 06 00:10:15 <n800n> awesome
Jun 06 00:12:23 <lcuk> i hope -fprofile-generate works
Jun 06 00:12:45 <pupnik> you may have to turn off your gcc cache lcuk
Jun 06 00:12:52 <lcuk> which cache
Jun 06 00:13:16 <lcuk> i wasnt aware i had built pch
Jun 06 00:13:24 <pupnik> well see if you get the .gcno files
Jun 06 00:13:28 <pupnik> or was it .gcda
Jun 06 00:13:35 <lcuk> yer i got a pair of files
Jun 06 00:13:52 <pupnik> you should get one for each .o file afaik
Jun 06 00:13:56 <lcuk> gcda per .c on compile
Jun 06 00:13:59 <pupnik> ok
Jun 06 00:14:07 <pupnik> hrmph
Jun 06 00:14:10 <lcuk> and gcno for each on running
Jun 06 00:14:16 <pupnik> gcc -v ?
Jun 06 00:14:47 <lcuk> whats that kill
Jun 06 00:14:55 <pupnik> version of your gcc
Jun 06 00:14:57 <pupnik> just curious
Jun 06 00:16:15 <lcuk> 3.4.4
Jun 06 00:16:16 <pupnik> oh one thing i never got to ask about is if/when we might expect a 4.x gcc
Jun 06 00:16:19 <pupnik> ok ty
Jun 06 00:16:49 <pupnik> 3.4.? has some bugs with -fprofile-generate
Jun 06 00:16:49 <lcuk> im direct on the device though, its not that important, its not borked it but it doesnt look much faster - i already personally inlined and optimised a lot of code
Jun 06 00:17:29 <lcuk> ive been removing the framecounters all round now as i seem to be getting pretty stable rates :)
Jun 06 00:21:03 <zerosum> I just got a n800 what is a good irc channel for support?
Jun 06 00:21:11 <GAN800> This one.
Jun 06 00:21:25 <zerosum> great
Jun 06 00:21:39 <zerosum> is there anyway to ping the device?
Jun 06 00:21:47 <zerosum> or see what ip address it has?
Jun 06 00:21:55 <zerosum> its says its connected to my wlan
Jun 06 00:21:58 <GAN800> Connection manager.
Jun 06 00:22:09 <GAN800> or any of the typical linux commands.
Jun 06 00:22:35 <zerosum> hmm
Jun 06 00:22:40 <GAN800> or check your router's dhcp
Jun 06 00:22:46 <zerosum> how do i get to a termanl
Jun 06 00:22:49 <pupnik> it should respond to ping, but iirc os2007 doesn't come with ping
Jun 06 00:23:15 <GAN800> Application menu: Utilities -> Xterm
Jun 06 00:23:29 <pupnik> zerosum: you have os2007 or os2008?
Jun 06 00:23:34 <GAN800> Yeah, that's right
Jun 06 00:23:42 <GAN800> Flash it first.
Jun 06 00:23:50 <summatusmentis> the n800 can run os2007?
Jun 06 00:23:52 <GAN800> They still ship with OS2008
Jun 06 00:23:57 <GAN800> er, 2007
Jun 06 00:24:02 <GAN800> summ
Jun 06 00:24:03 <zerosum> its not new
Jun 06 00:24:06 <zerosum> got it from a friend
Jun 06 00:24:06 <rm_you> WifiInfo
Jun 06 00:24:08 <rm_you> brb, food
Jun 06 00:24:15 <summatusmentis> GAN800: oh, weird
Jun 06 00:24:26 <GAN800> it shipped with OS2007 in January 2007 summatusmentis
Jun 06 00:24:29 <zerosum> there is no Xterm on my utilites
Jun 06 00:24:31 <summatusmentis> The Nokia site doesn't even sell them anymore
Jun 06 00:24:46 <GAN800> It's more or less discontinued.
Jun 06 00:24:51 <rm_you> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/wifiinfo/
Jun 06 00:25:07 <rm_you> or http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/wifiinfo/
Jun 06 00:25:09 <rm_you> depending
Jun 06 00:25:11 <rm_you> and, brb food
Jun 06 00:25:13 <zerosum> haha
Jun 06 00:25:19 <GAN800> zerosum, are you running OS2008?
Jun 06 00:25:28 <GeneralAntilles> That's step 1
Jun 06 00:25:31 <zerosum> if i could connect to get the install i would have a connection
Jun 06 00:25:58 <rm_you> download the deb and copy it over via USB
Jun 06 00:26:00 <rm_you> and then install it
Jun 06 00:26:04 <rm_you> BRB FOOD
Jun 06 00:26:04 <johnx> zerosum, you can check the version by looking in system -> control panel -> about device
Jun 06 00:26:20 <pupnik> or look at the theme - here's os2008 http://beans.seartipy.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/os2008-on-n800.jpg
Jun 06 00:26:47 <zerosum> 0S 2007
Jun 06 00:26:51 <GeneralAntilles> Flash itt.
Jun 06 00:26:55 <GeneralAntilles> s/itt/it/
Jun 06 00:26:56 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Flash it.
Jun 06 00:34:39 <nikosapi> Are there beta releases of microb available? (the one with the much newer version of gecko)
Jun 06 00:35:16 <GeneralAntilles> nikosapi, it's in svn.
Jun 06 00:35:36 <GeneralAntilles> There's a mostly up-to-date build here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=178677
Jun 06 00:36:53 <nikosapi> cool, thanks
Jun 06 00:37:55 <zerosum> is there a way  to flash it with out a usb?
Jun 06 00:39:02 <johnx> I'm afraid not :/
Jun 06 00:39:23 <summatusmentis> can we just kill VZW now?
Jun 06 00:39:33 <johnx> zerosum, not without a bit of creative hacking at any rate...
Jun 06 00:39:55 <johnx> summatusmentis, for the alltel deal? or your personal experience with them?
Jun 06 00:40:08 <summatusmentis> johnx: a bit of both
Jun 06 00:40:21 <summatusmentis> They're the most closed cell company ever, and they're huge
Jun 06 00:40:45 <GeneralAntilles> apt-get install osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked from Bora? :D
Jun 06 00:41:00 <summatusmentis> and they're gonna end up being the only cdma provder worth considering, and I need cdma
Jun 06 00:41:27 <johnx> cdma naturally lends itself to building a closed carrier...
Jun 06 00:41:49 <summatusmentis> well, I know, but it's the only thing that works where I need it to!
Jun 06 00:42:14 <johnx> move?
Jun 06 00:42:19 <summatusmentis> and the fact that they lock down all of their phones, and won't allow anything but a VZW phone on their network just makes it worse
Jun 06 00:42:27 <johnx> guess it depends on how much you hate VZW...
Jun 06 00:42:45 <summatusmentis> I go to school in Morris MN, gsm coverage is mediocre
Jun 06 00:42:50 <summatusmentis> at best
Jun 06 00:43:20 <summatusmentis> and this new deal is gonna kill sprint
Jun 06 00:44:08 <johnx> isn't vzw gonna do the "open thing" by the end of '08?
Jun 06 00:44:53 <summatusmentis> that's what they claim, but all that means is they get to choose the 'certification processes' and they get to charge you money
Jun 06 00:44:53 <johnx> so, then you'll be able to use any CDMA phone that has the right frequency support I guess...
Jun 06 00:45:13 <pupnik> morris... so few distractions
Jun 06 00:45:26 <zerosum> anybody know what a question mark on the globe mean?
Jun 06 00:45:31 <summatusmentis> pupnik: you're familiar with it?
Jun 06 00:45:39 <pupnik> yeah was up there once :)
Jun 06 00:45:49 <summatusmentis> up? where are you located?
Jun 06 00:45:56 <GeneralAntilles> zerosum, no IP from dhcp
Jun 06 00:46:04 <pupnik> drove up from the TC
Jun 06 00:46:06 <summatusmentis> most people I talk to have never heard of Morris
Jun 06 00:46:09 <GeneralAntilles> zerosum, forget about troubleshooting OS2007 and flash it already.
Jun 06 00:46:12 <summatusmentis> oh, that's not really up
Jun 06 00:46:33 <pupnik> ok s/up/to/
Jun 06 00:46:41 <summatusmentis> why would you go to Morris? There's not much there
Jun 06 00:46:49 <pupnik> i might ask you the same :)
Jun 06 00:47:01 <summatusmentis> it's cliche, I feel in love w/ the campus
Jun 06 00:47:23 <summatusmentis> and it's relatively cheap
Jun 06 00:47:54 <pupnik> i was looking at transferring from the cities - wanted to check it out
Jun 06 00:47:58 <summatusmentis> johnx: and then there's the hatred of large corporations in general
Jun 06 00:48:23 <summatusmentis> pupnik: not for you, presumably? :) so you're at the U of M?
Jun 06 00:48:28 <johnx> as long as they stay away from GSM carriers I don't care :)
Jun 06 00:48:40 <summatusmentis> they're going LTE for 4g
Jun 06 00:50:06 <johnx> LTE/4G is a mythical creature to me until I can hold a retail 4G handset
Jun 06 00:50:40 <summatusmentis> well, sure, but both VZW and ATT are planning on going that way
Jun 06 00:51:10 <pupnik> no this was like 1989.
Jun 06 00:51:29 <summatusmentis> pupnik: oh, ok
Jun 06 00:51:45 <summatusmentis> Are you still in the cities?
Jun 06 00:52:47 <n800n> what version of flash is it on the n800?
Jun 06 00:52:50 <n800n> 8?
Jun 06 00:52:58 <johnx> 9
Jun 06 00:54:00 <pupnik> no i'm in krautland
Jun 06 00:54:56 <pupnik> sometimes i think there were more germans in minnesota than here though
Jun 06 00:56:26 <summatusmentis> lol, there are a lot of germans in minnesota, yes
Jun 06 01:02:49 <zerosum> i dont know what i did but it works now
Jun 06 01:03:35 <pupnik> you use linux on the pc zerosum ?
Jun 06 01:03:56 <hans-castorp> what is the name of the default window manager in maemo?
Jun 06 01:04:04 <johnx> matchbox
Jun 06 01:04:13 <hans-castorp> is there any way to disable it?
Jun 06 01:04:28 <hans-castorp> to boot to console?
Jun 06 01:04:33 <johnx> aaah
Jun 06 01:04:42 <johnx> so no x server either...
Jun 06 01:04:51 <hans-castorp> genau
Jun 06 01:05:01 <hans-castorp> yes
Jun 06 01:05:15 <zerosum> not normally
Jun 06 01:05:26 <johnx> there are two things you'd need:
Jun 06 01:05:31 <pupnik> how would you input text to it
Jun 06 01:05:46 <hans-castorp> bluetooth keyboard right?
Jun 06 01:06:07 <johnx> hmm
Jun 06 01:06:14 <hans-castorp> or usb
Jun 06 01:06:17 <johnx> bt *might* work without X
Jun 06 01:06:35 <johnx> usb *will* work without X as long as you echo host > ..../mode sometime during boot
Jun 06 01:06:40 <hans-castorp> right
Jun 06 01:06:47 <johnx> first look here to enable console framebuffer: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=167960
Jun 06 01:06:57 <hans-castorp> sweet thanks
Jun 06 01:07:10 <johnx> then start digging through initscripts to safely disable the x server
Jun 06 01:07:44 <johnx> also, may I suggest that you setup boot from sd so you have a way to troubleshoot this when it fails
Jun 06 01:07:51 <hans-castorp> yeah I am already
Jun 06 01:08:08 <johnx> and also, you might be interested in debian for the tablet... ;)
Jun 06 01:08:16 <hans-castorp> running that right now too
Jun 06 01:08:21 <hans-castorp> chrooted
Jun 06 01:08:24 <johnx> aah
Jun 06 01:09:02 <hans-castorp> debian is sweet.
Jun 06 01:09:13 <pupnik> cool
Jun 06 01:09:14 <johnx> it would probably be a lot easier to make debian bootable than to figure out how to safely disable the x server in os2008
Jun 06 01:09:32 <hans-castorp> right
Jun 06 01:10:08 <johnx> well, the x server would be easy, but there are probably at least a couple things that depend on it
Jun 06 01:10:46 <hans-castorp> yeah. right now I just want to boot to the console so that I can start any window manager I want
Jun 06 01:10:58 <pupnik> if you get it working, post your info somewhere hans-castorp
Jun 06 01:11:25 <johnx> hans-castorp, a different desktop environment? or just a different window manager?
Jun 06 01:12:35 <hans-castorp> pupnik i'll try
Jun 06 01:12:39 <hans-castorp> john, whats the difference
Jun 06 01:12:43 <pupnik> plus, a console-only partition would be so stupid, it'd be cool
Jun 06 01:13:06 <pupnik> er, root fs. whatever
Jun 06 01:13:17 <hans-castorp> yeah
Jun 06 01:13:24 <johnx> hans-castorp, well a window manager just draws the borders around windows and focuses one
Jun 06 01:13:42 <johnx> the desktop environment puts applets on the desktop, and is reponsible for the panels
Jun 06 01:13:57 <hans-castorp> ok i've always called things like gnome, kde, matchbox window managers. I guess that is incorrect
Jun 06 01:14:26 <johnx> technically, metacity is the window manager for gnome
Jun 06 01:14:29 <johnx> kwin for kde
Jun 06 01:14:39 <johnx> matchbox for maemo/hildon-desktop
Jun 06 01:14:56 <hans-castorp> ls
Jun 06 01:15:00 <hans-castorp> ok
Jun 06 01:15:08 <johnx> (sorry, don't mean to be a pedant O_o )
Jun 06 01:15:21 <hans-castorp> no thanks for the info johnx
Jun 06 01:15:44 <GeneralAntilles> Pedantry is important for clarity is things technical. :P
Jun 06 01:15:51 <GeneralAntilles> s/is/in/
Jun 06 01:15:52 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Pedantry in important for clarity is things technical. :P
Jun 06 01:15:57 <GeneralAntilles> Bleh
Jun 06 01:16:00 <GeneralAntilles> You know what I mean. :P
Jun 06 01:16:04 <Dekaritae> Hnn
Jun 06 01:16:13 <Dekaritae> Wikipedia says the N800 has an FM radio tuner
Jun 06 01:16:19 <GeneralAntilles> It does.
Jun 06 01:16:21 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, I hate to be a pedant, but...
Jun 06 01:16:36 <Dekaritae> How do I utilise said tuner?
Jun 06 01:16:43 <GeneralAntilles> Install fm-tuner
Jun 06 01:16:44 <johnx> hans-castorp, you might want to look at the way penguinbait launches KDE
Jun 06 01:16:55 <hans-castorp> ok
Jun 06 01:26:56 <lcuk> gnite folks
Jun 06 01:27:13 <GAN800> night
Jun 06 01:28:21 <pupnik> ooo new garnetvm -- i missed that
Jun 06 01:28:26 <pupnik> yaay for rotated dislpay
Jun 06 01:29:09 <pupnik> http://www.internettablettalk.com/2008/05/29/access-releases-garnet-vm-beta-2/
Jun 06 01:29:15 <pupnik> the palm folks should be real happy
Jun 06 01:29:28 <GAN800> Yeah, it's much better
Jun 06 01:29:54 <GAN800> Though I have 0 to -1 use for a Palm vm.
Jun 06 01:30:09 <johnx> me neither
Jun 06 01:30:11 <johnx> but it's fun
Jun 06 01:30:30 <GAN800> Palm is mostly just fun to laugh at. ;p
Jun 06 01:30:58 <pupnik> well what about that pda-like stuff
Jun 06 01:31:21 <GAN800> No, no use.
Jun 06 01:31:41 <pupnik> schedule/appointments etc - what do you mean?
Jun 06 01:31:51 * GAN800 should get some corn torillas for nachos tomorrow.
Jun 06 01:32:16 <GAN800> My PDA tasks are either online or in my head.
Jun 06 01:32:19 <pupnik> isn't there palm software that syncs with the windoze world for the suits out there?
Jun 06 01:32:27 <pupnik> oh right
Jun 06 01:33:15 <pupnik> but some people simply have to plan every piece of their day
Jun 06 01:33:37 <GAN800> Yeah, for them it's probably useful.
Jun 06 01:34:20 <GAN800> Be nice if Nokia would just drop a mil or two on a dev team to crank out a PDA site to shut the whiners up.
Jun 06 01:34:35 <GAN800> s/site/suite/
Jun 06 01:34:35 <infobot> GAN800 meant: Be nice if Nokia would just drop a mil or two on a dev team to crank out a PDA suite to shut the whiners up.
Jun 06 01:35:23 <pupnik> be nice if nokia bought me a harem too
Jun 06 01:35:39 <GAN800> It's mindboggling to me that one button can so arbitrarily pick between two completely different behaviors.
Jun 06 01:36:13 <GAN800> pupnik, I could go for that. :P
Jun 06 01:37:14 <johnx> GAN800, which button? center d-pad?
Jun 06 01:37:52 <GAN800> It's even more amazing that Nokia has managed to make virtual text entry slightly buggier than it was in OS2005 in OS2008.
Jun 06 01:38:09 <GAN800> Nah, the return key in the finger keyboard.
Jun 06 01:38:34 <GAN800> it can't decide if it's a return key or the close-keyboard key in the corner.
Jun 06 01:39:07 <GAN800> though the text entry nonsense with MicroB in Diablo right now is also rather hilarious.
Jun 06 01:39:12 <johnx> I wonder if it's just a race condition
Jun 06 01:39:28 <GAN800> It's like everybody forgot the N800 exists.
Jun 06 01:39:32 <johnx> for url entry it should be "send a return, then close the keyboard"
Jun 06 01:40:06 <GAN800> Could be, it's worse now than when I first installed Diablo.
Jun 06 01:40:08 <johnx> at least from what I understand some N810 owners still care about the osk
Jun 06 01:40:21 <summatusmentis> why would they?
Jun 06 01:40:37 <rm_you> back
Jun 06 01:41:02 <GAN800> At least it's not 'press finger keyboard return, tap text field to bring up vkb, tap vkb return' like it was 90% of the time in Chinook.
Jun 06 01:41:18 <johnx> summatusmentis, quicker than sliding out the keyboard to just enter a one word search term
Jun 06 01:41:34 <GAN800> summatusmentis, a variety of reasons. I know at least one who uses it about half the time.
Jun 06 01:41:39 <acydlord> yeah, i sometime still use the vkb
Jun 06 01:41:48 <acydlord> its easier on the thumbs too
Jun 06 01:42:03 <GAN800> we're up to at least a 50% success rate with Diablo.
Jun 06 01:44:22 <Dekaritae> Yay for nomenclature
Jun 06 01:44:26 <rm_you> hey, Quim added his email as a CC on my bug report for Display opensource :P
Jun 06 01:44:41 <Dekaritae> "USB female to USB mini-B male"
Jun 06 01:44:41 <Dekaritae> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31FRdhAN70L._SL500_AA273_.jpg
Jun 06 01:44:55 <GAN800> He's on half the bugs in the db. :P
Jun 06 01:44:59 <rm_you> :P
Jun 06 01:45:06 <rm_you> well, it's promising :P at least he read iut
Jun 06 01:45:07 <rm_you> *it
Jun 06 01:45:30 <GeneralAntilles> Unfortunately, it's not his decision. :P
Jun 06 01:45:51 <rm_you> lol true
Jun 06 01:45:57 <rm_you> you think he'd approve that?
Jun 06 01:46:19 <GeneralAntilles> Quim's an open source guy by nature.
Jun 06 01:46:26 <rm_you> heh
Jun 06 01:46:41 <rm_you> well, time to start working on the configuration :P
Jun 06 01:47:01 <GeneralAntilles> Don't forget the "backlight off" switch!
Jun 06 01:47:17 <GeneralAntilles> Interesting bit: http://www.mail-archive.com/foundation-announce@gnome.org/msg00023.html
Jun 06 01:50:38 <johnx|n800> yay! my desktop crashes randomly under load :/
Jun 06 01:50:52 <GAN800> hildon-desktop?
Jun 06 01:51:11 <johnx|n800> desktop linux box
Jun 06 01:51:28 <GAN800> oh, my hildon-desktop does that. :p
Jun 06 01:51:35 <GAN800> overheat?
Jun 06 01:51:56 <johnx|n800> was compiling xserver-xfbdev and it just died :/
Jun 06 01:52:15 <johnx|n800> i don't think so
Jun 06 01:52:43 <acydlord> mine has done that a few times under load
Jun 06 01:52:56 <GAN800> Mine's also been doing that with the AC broken. :p
Jun 06 01:55:25 <johnx|n800> just updated to a new kernel. will reboot and see if that helps
Jun 06 01:56:40 <johnx|n800> of course the only way i'll know is by starting a huge compile and waiting for it to die
Jun 06 02:02:25 <johnx> next time I think I'll buy a better mobo :/
Jun 06 02:02:39 <rm_you> johnx: what you using now?
Jun 06 02:02:47 <rm_you> couldn't possibly be my old one, it's too big...
Jun 06 02:02:51 <GeneralAntilles> and if it never dies, wont you look like a jerk. :P
Jun 06 02:03:02 <johnx> the cheapest via board I could find a year ago for an s939
Jun 06 02:03:08 <rm_you> ack
Jun 06 02:03:22 <johnx> heh...it was like $40
Jun 06 02:03:27 <rm_you> ack
Jun 06 02:03:45 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, this one will get replaced when I have money...before it necessarily dies
Jun 06 02:03:58 <johnx> even when it's not crashing it still has issues
Jun 06 02:05:55 <rm_you> where in the hildon API does it go over the stuff in /usr/include/hildon-input-method/ ?
Jun 06 02:07:20 <GeneralAntilles> http://live.gnome.org/Hildon/HildonInputMethod ?
Jun 06 02:07:36 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: I think if I write a subclass of GtkMenuItem I can make it behave like I want
Jun 06 02:07:38 <rm_you> >_<
Jun 06 02:07:51 <rm_you> ah, not on Maemo's /dev stuff
Jun 06 02:08:12 <rm_you> OMG this is so much better than the docs on Maemo
Jun 06 02:08:14 <rm_you> >_<
Jun 06 02:28:19 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: yeah, i think the answer may be that I have to use GtkMenuShell to write my own implimentation of a GtkMenu that will let me add widgets
Jun 06 02:29:03 <rm_you> which I might be able to do
Jun 06 02:29:07 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Jun 06 02:29:48 * rm_you grabs the GTK code (OPEN SOURCE!!! OMFG I SHOULD NOT BE THIS EXCITED ABOUT OSS) and gets to work
Jun 06 02:30:12 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Jun 06 02:30:15 <GeneralAntilles> It's kinda sad, isn't it?
Jun 06 02:30:23 <rm_you> yeah >_>
Jun 06 02:30:23 <GeneralAntilles> "WTF? It's open?!"
Jun 06 02:30:34 <GeneralAntilles> Should be: "WTF? It's closed?!"
Jun 06 02:30:46 <rm_you> we're using... GTK+ 2.0?
Jun 06 02:30:48 <rm_you> err
Jun 06 02:30:51 <johnx> 2.10
Jun 06 02:30:52 <rm_you> no
Jun 06 02:30:54 <johnx> IIRC
Jun 06 02:31:04 <GeneralAntilles> 2.10
Jun 06 02:31:20 <rm_you> yes 2.10.12
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 06 02:59:56 2008