**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 08 02:59:57 2008 Jun 08 03:07:46 What's the best PIM application for Maemo? Jun 08 03:21:48 What boot option can you pass the N810 bootloader to bring up services but not try to log user in? Jun 08 03:22:11 disable watchdog Jun 08 03:22:21 KotCzarny: Thanks Jun 08 03:23:06 It still reboots Jun 08 03:23:36 there kinds of watchdog Jun 08 03:23:47 ? Jun 08 03:23:49 three kinds Jun 08 03:23:56 Oh Jun 08 03:24:51 timelyx: feel like helping me figure out what kind of menu container to use for my applet? :P Jun 08 03:28:19 I give up, I'm leaving the username as user Jun 08 03:28:23 I'm not going to brick my N810 again Jun 08 03:28:27 :) Jun 08 03:32:14 at this time of day? Jun 08 03:32:41 i'd be interested in hunting for a battery for my remote it seems to need a special aaa Jun 08 03:32:56 * timelyx is fairly annoyed that AAA isn't a standard battery Jun 08 03:33:04 Isn't it? Jun 08 03:33:11 it seems not Jun 08 03:43:54 http://www.perverts.nl/files/Things%20you%20learn%20from%20movies.txt Jun 08 03:48:23 shouldn't snav scroll on shortpress when there are no links on an html page? Jun 08 03:52:12 my current impression is that SNAV is finally EOL Jun 08 03:52:16 so i've stopped caring :) Jun 08 03:52:22 woo Jun 08 03:52:44 but no, SNAV has an amazingly complicated (and utterly useless and yet oh-so-incomplete) specification Jun 08 03:53:58 I guess I should say, it'd be nice if a shortpress scrolled on an html page with no links. Jun 08 03:54:22 * timelyx still doesn't care, but yes, that's the more proper wording Jun 08 03:54:42 although better would be "could x be improved to do y? i think that'd be better" Jun 08 03:55:19 Nah, 'Do eht or im buying an I-phone' :P Jun 08 03:55:36 iphones don't have snav :) Jun 08 03:56:15 They have kinetic scrolling. ;) Jun 08 03:56:27 we have too Jun 08 03:56:37 how many mobile browsers from 2012 do you think will lack that? Jun 08 03:56:53 (or whatever replaces kinetic..) Jun 08 03:57:15 * GAN800 tried to post to itT on an iPhone a few weeks ago and almost killed himself. Jun 08 03:57:23 heh Jun 08 03:57:46 i'd just kill myself for trying to go near itt :) Jun 08 03:58:15 I don't get the fetish over mobile Safari. It's really not that great. Jun 08 03:58:33 it might be better than Safari 1.x Jun 08 03:58:36 which is what i have here... Jun 08 03:59:26 OmniWeb just updated to be inline with 3.1.1. I'm happy. Jun 08 03:59:46 great, yet another browser i can't run Jun 08 04:00:04 Upgrade already Jun 08 04:00:14 * rm_you still can't believe someone actually uses a broswer that costs money Jun 08 04:00:19 *browser Jun 08 04:00:31 GAN800: i'm waiting for someone to buy 10.5 for me Jun 08 04:00:33 Funny coming from an Opera whore. :P Jun 08 04:01:01 timelyx, you want somebody to start a collection? :P Jun 08 04:01:15 probably a good idea ;) Jun 08 04:01:18 Opera doesn't cost money :P Jun 08 04:01:37 rm_you: tell that to any phone manu Jun 08 04:01:49 * timelyx has no idea how much nokia paid opera, but it certainly wasn't free Jun 08 04:02:06 timelyx: I would pitch in for your browser if you ... help me out a bit :P Jun 08 04:02:27 tuesday. tomorrow's a holiday Jun 08 04:02:27 there's a few... "things" i need to know... Jun 08 04:02:42 lol, k Jun 08 04:02:51 how many hours ago did you get off work? Jun 08 04:02:56 or Jun 08 04:03:11 it's a religious holiday, i'd have to take it off no matter what Jun 08 04:03:13 if you had worked today, how long ago would you have gone home Jun 08 04:03:27 trying to decide when I can talk to you during the day :P Jun 08 04:03:31 actually, maybe i should go in to work today Jun 08 04:03:34 without having to deal with timezones Jun 08 04:03:38 oh, i'm random Jun 08 04:03:54 fine, what times do you work and what timezone is that Jun 08 04:04:03 tuesday i'll probably be unavail from +30 from now until +2 from now Jun 08 04:04:27 hrm, no, not tues Jun 08 04:04:34 on a normal monday (tomorrow excluded) Jun 08 04:04:48 tuesday, i might be awake at this time, and i might be online Jun 08 04:05:06 i should be at work w/in +5 from 'now' on a normal day :) (noon) Jun 08 04:05:13 k Jun 08 04:05:26 thats.... 2am here Jun 08 04:05:33 normally i'm at work from 9am until i leave (which can be midnight) Jun 08 04:07:21 * GAN800 wishes Quim would respond to my rant on the ui spec bug. Jun 08 04:08:37 GAN800: link? Jun 08 04:08:59 timelyx: ever get on IRC from work? Jun 08 04:09:32 rm_you: oh, um.. "rarely" Jun 08 04:09:45 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3161 Jun 08 04:09:50 you can find me on moznet from work... but i don't have a useful irc gateway to hear Jun 08 04:09:52 timelyx: can you be online... tuesday? Jun 08 04:10:00 :P Jun 08 04:10:02 err here Jun 08 04:10:15 moznet? Jun 08 04:10:36 irc.mozilla.org Jun 08 04:10:43 just ask someone how to find me, they'll help Jun 08 04:11:12 what channel do you hang out in there Jun 08 04:11:25 most of them... just ask someone for me :) Jun 08 04:11:37 lol Jun 08 04:11:41 tell me ONE Jun 08 04:11:44 so i can join it :P Jun 08 04:12:31 #foxymonkies Jun 08 04:12:58 you could have done /msg ... ;-b Jun 08 04:13:37 i suppose Jun 08 04:13:45 ok, I'll bug you at work Tuesday :) Jun 08 04:15:01 You get this working and it will be EPIC. . . . :P Jun 08 04:15:13 GAN800: ui spec publication? Jun 08 04:15:19 the browser spec weighed in at 300 pages Jun 08 04:15:30 which is too much for the mobile devices i have Jun 08 04:15:33 Jun 08 04:15:36 Nah, adv-backlight uses the right container. Jun 08 04:15:41 lol Jun 08 04:15:53 it would be AMAZING Jun 08 04:16:09 i need to get a requirement penned "specs must be loadable in the device's web browser" Jun 08 04:16:10 timelyx: you scratch my back, I scratch yours, eh? Jun 08 04:16:29 i'll buy someone dinner if they get that enforced :) Jun 08 04:16:44 * timelyx chuckles Jun 08 04:16:52 the 2006 pdf viewer was great... Jun 08 04:17:02 it wouldn't load images for something like that :) Jun 08 04:17:07 * rm_you gets ready to send timelyx a *case* of his favorite beer Jun 08 04:17:18 * timelyx doesn't drink :/ Jun 08 04:17:45 * timelyx goes back to singing Jun 08 04:17:53 Then someone at your place will be very happy? :P Jun 08 04:17:57 99 bugs on the wall, 99 bugs... take one down, smash it around... Jun 08 04:18:00 98 bugs on the wall Jun 08 04:18:15 regression! Jun 08 04:18:36 * timelyx skips ahead to 34 crash bugs on the wall Jun 08 04:19:03 33 crashing bugs on the wall, take one down, swat it around .... Jun 08 04:19:31 not quite as much fun as beer, i'll give you, but it's what's for breakfast Jun 08 04:37:11 hrm Jun 08 04:37:28 warning: implicit declaration of function `pthread_mutex_timedlock_np' Jun 08 04:37:48 that means that whatever #include was supposed to bring in that function.... didn't. right? Jun 08 04:37:57 so when I actually try to run it, it will break? Jun 08 04:39:34 Then the ninjas will come to get you. Jun 08 04:40:50 mostly it means that if there's any evil macro magic involved Jun 08 04:41:06 i don't use ANY macros, to my knowledge Jun 08 04:41:06 or if the arguments you use don't match the kinds needed by the impl Jun 08 04:41:10 then bad things will happen Jun 08 04:41:17 should... but the header might say Jun 08 04:41:36 #define pthread_mutex_timedlock_np(x) gotcha("pthread_mutex_timedlock_np ",x) Jun 08 04:42:03 s/should/sure/ Jun 08 04:46:17 * rm_you is annoyed Jun 08 04:46:40 wow, zero google results for my error Jun 08 04:46:43 rm_you: mxr will tell you who defines it if you want to pick a #include :) Jun 08 04:46:47 err, warning Jun 08 04:46:59 pthread.h is supposed to Jun 08 04:47:19 it's part of POSIX Threads, not maemo Jun 08 04:50:17 #define _MULTI_THREADED Jun 08 04:50:21 did you include that? :) Jun 08 04:50:36 >_> Jun 08 04:50:47 (from an ibm example) Jun 08 04:50:53 yeah, i read that Jun 08 04:51:18 doesnt help Jun 08 04:52:06 http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/iseries/v5r4/topic/apis/concept1.htm Jun 08 04:52:44 * timelyx looks for an mxr which actually has pthread Jun 08 04:52:48 i think swift does Jun 08 04:52:54 but i don't want to go to work Jun 08 04:53:34 lol Jun 08 04:54:39 my guess is that it wasn't implemented in the release we used Jun 08 04:55:28 this is in scratchbox's pthread.h: Jun 08 04:55:30 extern int pthread_mutex_timedlock (pthread_mutex_t *__restrict __mutex, Jun 08 04:55:30 __const struct timespec *__restrict Jun 08 04:55:30 __abstime) __THROW __nonnull ((1, 2)); Jun 08 04:55:34 that looks right Jun 08 04:56:03 but you said _np Jun 08 04:56:08 oh Jun 08 04:56:10 right Jun 08 04:56:11 hrm Jun 08 04:56:13 :q Jun 08 04:56:17 DAMNIT Jun 08 04:56:27 irc is not vim Jun 08 04:56:48 believe me, you wouldn't be happy if it were Jun 08 04:56:56 eh Jun 08 04:56:58 i have enough problems when my irc client responds to cmd-w Jun 08 04:57:03 and closes the window i'm using Jun 08 04:57:11 even though it was supposed to be sent to my web browser Jun 08 04:57:20 I hate that Jun 08 04:57:24 Happens all the damn time Jun 08 04:57:52 AH Jun 08 04:57:54 #ifdef __USE_XOPEN2K Jun 08 04:57:58 what is that? Jun 08 04:58:04 I suppose I could define it and pray, but.... Jun 08 04:58:10 presumably the xopen 2000 standard :) Jun 08 04:58:22 you can try #define'ing before #including Jun 08 04:58:38 yeah Jun 08 04:58:39 works Jun 08 04:58:42 hrm Jun 08 04:58:55 but CAN i define that? do we support whatever that is? Jun 08 04:59:02 or am I just lying to it Jun 08 05:02:53 you can Jun 08 05:03:03 the reason for those things Jun 08 05:03:04 wow whatever i did OWNED my tablet Jun 08 05:03:05 lol Jun 08 05:03:09 is that they change how compiled program work Jun 08 05:03:25 and so programs have to pick how they want the world to behave Jun 08 05:03:49 um, you did leave a root ssh session avail to whack bad things Jun 08 05:03:57 it went insane and set my brightness to zero Jun 08 05:03:58 lol Jun 08 05:04:03 and made weird noises Jun 08 05:04:10 but yeah i set it back manually via ssh Jun 08 05:04:27 err Jun 08 05:04:58 went insane, beeped a lot, crashed my UI, set the brightness to zero, made some weird noises, and then became silent. Jun 08 05:05:07 but yeah, i fixed it :) Jun 08 05:33:45 this crash on volume change on first applet load is ANNOYING for debugging Jun 08 05:34:58 GeneralAntilles: WOW Jun 08 05:35:15 Ha Jun 08 05:35:21 so I just realized... the reason I didnt have beep on volume change yet was because it would beep like 4 times every change Jun 08 05:35:23 I want to beat hildon-desktop with as tick. Jun 08 05:35:25 well Jun 08 05:35:29 s/tick/stick/ Jun 08 05:35:30 GeneralAntilles meant: I want to beat hildon-desktop with as stick. Jun 08 05:35:35 But a giant tick might work, too. Jun 08 05:35:38 I finally got it working with only one beep every second or so possible Jun 08 05:35:51 and went to compare how well mine worked to the original nokia applet... Jun 08 05:36:03 THEY JUST LET IT BEEP A WHOLE BUNCH LIKE I REFUSED TO ALLOW >_< Jun 08 05:36:24 so basically it was "up to Nokia applet quality" at the beginning... Jun 08 05:36:32 but anyway, it works nicely now Jun 08 05:36:36 lol Jun 08 05:36:36 gj Jun 08 05:36:51 int time_since_beep = (current_time.tv_sec - last_beep.tv_sec) * 1000000 + (current_time.tv_usec - last_beep.tv_usec); Jun 08 05:36:59 someone verify that my math/logic is right there? Jun 08 05:38:37 is int safe? are you sure you don't mean /some complicated kind of long/ :) Jun 08 05:40:57 i think so Jun 08 05:41:01 erm Jun 08 05:41:04 it works... Jun 08 05:41:21 dunno what will happen if it has been like... months since they changed the volume Jun 08 05:41:37 worst possible outcome is that the int wraps, right? Jun 08 05:42:10 i can make it a long Jun 08 05:45:08 mourning Jun 08 05:45:26 rm_you: well... some crts are anal about inputs Jun 08 05:45:34 and will fatal_fatal_abort() if you violate them Jun 08 05:45:56 there was one which would abort if you asked it about the timestamp of a file created before 1980 or something Jun 08 05:46:00 very nice of it.. Jun 08 05:48:12 prolly before 1969 :P Jun 08 05:48:27 crt wasn't unix, so probably 80 Jun 08 05:48:57 i can't remember the timestamp, but iirc it was 1600 or 1700 :) Jun 08 05:49:04 so it's not like it mattered much :) Jun 08 05:49:51 lol Jun 08 05:50:01 23 bugs on the wall... 23 bugs.. Jun 08 05:50:46 a commenter to a crash bug... Jun 08 05:50:52 i have the same bug, when i open x, it hangs Jun 08 05:50:55 * timelyx shakes head Jun 08 05:51:12 take one down and pass it around Jun 08 05:51:21 * GeneralAntilles segfaults. Jun 08 05:51:34 Woot! Jun 08 05:52:17 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=421929 Jun 08 05:52:46 * timelyx waits for Navi to hang and say "i have the same bug" :) Jun 08 05:52:51 Hmm Jun 08 05:53:10 The page has to load first Jun 08 05:53:37 oh, the bug doesn't explain how to hang Jun 08 05:53:40 Ha Jun 08 05:53:49 it's talking about a crash... some commenter somewhere said that.. Jun 08 05:54:04 Well Jun 08 05:54:08 there's steps to reduce Jun 08 05:54:12 bleh Jun 08 05:54:23 reproduce Jun 08 05:55:17 true, it could be worse... Jun 08 05:55:29 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159930#c37 <- worse Jun 08 05:55:39 actually, not worse Jun 08 05:55:43 Woo, mozilla bugzilla fun Jun 08 05:55:59 * timelyx grabs for the next bug Jun 08 05:56:04 So many bugs Jun 08 05:56:06 20 bugs on the wall Jun 08 05:56:56 That first bug is luls Jun 08 05:58:32 That second bug is even more luls Jun 08 06:02:49 * timelyx fixes a bug and returns to reading bugs Jun 08 06:03:34 most of our bugs these days are integration Jun 08 06:03:49 * Navi doesn't like integration Jun 08 06:03:53 Xservers, Plugins, Messengers Jun 08 06:04:12 Xserver crashes. result: dozens of users filing bugs against a browser complaining their xserver crashed Jun 08 06:04:25 us: um, X crashed, it gave you a stack, why exactly are you complaining to us? Jun 08 06:04:36 timelyx, because you're you! Jun 08 06:05:22 Even better are upstream bugs on a distribution's bug tracker Jun 08 06:05:30 oh don't get me started Jun 08 06:05:45 sadly, there are two flavors of those: Jun 08 06:06:24 a. user complains to us that xxx-product (where xxx is a vendor who has heavily hacked product) misbehaves Jun 08 06:06:29 GeneralAntilles: new beta Jun 08 06:06:32 same link Jun 08 06:06:45 includes volume beep and adjustable hardware key levels Jun 08 06:06:49 b. user neglects to mention the xxx part and complains about a behavior we don't implement Jun 08 06:07:19 c. some real bug in our product is reported downstream and "fixed" there, w/o them ever telling us about it Jun 08 06:07:20 did the checkin, and now I have to go take a shower and leave :P Jun 08 06:07:27 and pack up my machine >_< Jun 08 06:07:42 GAN800: wake up :P beta time Jun 08 06:07:45 I like Slackware. Stuff's pretty vanilla Jun 08 06:07:45 * GeneralAntilles tries to remember the link. Jun 08 06:07:52 * GeneralAntilles doesn't have it logged. Jun 08 06:07:56 *sigh* Jun 08 06:08:06 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2368 <- favorite summary ever. :P Jun 08 06:08:07 http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/advanced-backlight.so Jun 08 06:08:18 Thanks! ;) Jun 08 06:08:25 I would like to say the same about ArchLinux, but more recently, there's been gross patches Jun 08 06:08:44 rm_you, is that a newer library than the release y/day? Jun 08 06:09:03 GeneralAntilles: heh Jun 08 06:09:27 yes Jun 08 06:09:33 I loled the first time I saw that one, and still do whenever I run into it trolling through bugzilla. Jun 08 06:09:36 thx Jun 08 06:09:44 heh Jun 08 06:09:50 I love trolls Jun 08 06:09:54 yeah, my bugs can be fun Jun 08 06:09:58 have you found the pizza bug? Jun 08 06:10:03 it's in bmo (moz not mae) Jun 08 06:10:09 still haven't fixed the crash on first volume change tho... Jun 08 06:10:13 i REALLY need to fix that Jun 08 06:10:16 No, rarely ever touch bmo Jun 08 06:10:18 it puts off new users :/ Jun 08 06:10:35 something must be un-initialized... Jun 08 06:10:37 You want me to upgrade the task priority to encourage you? :D Jun 08 06:10:37 >_> Jun 08 06:10:40 lol Jun 08 06:10:42 yes :P Jun 08 06:10:51 Does it go to 6? Jun 08 06:10:53 http://maemo.org/profile/list?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nehmer_account_list_page=1 Jun 08 06:10:58 anyways, test that out, tell me what you think, i'm gonna go take a shower Jun 08 06:11:02 GeneralAntilles: i'm confused, the bug doesn't look fixed Jun 08 06:11:24 i guess i get to wait for a sync Jun 08 06:11:29 Fixed but not closed. Jun 08 06:11:36 s/Fixed/Resolved/ Jun 08 06:11:37 GeneralAntilles meant: Resolved but not closed. Jun 08 06:12:15 fixed but not verifiable Jun 08 06:12:18 That karma ranking is gonna get messed up whenever they integrate itT Thanks. Jun 08 06:12:28 yay Jun 08 06:12:29 we're integrating itt? Jun 08 06:12:30 karma system Jun 08 06:12:45 I want a huge negative number Jun 08 06:12:46 Quim responded positively to the enhancement request. Jun 08 06:12:51 Reggie set up an xml dump. Jun 08 06:13:05 well, i'm not on page 6 anymore... so i changed the url to 1 Jun 08 06:13:10 if i drop a bit, i can just file more bugs :) Jun 08 06:13:14 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2303 Jun 08 06:13:19 yawn Jun 08 06:13:25 heh Jun 08 06:13:26 exactly Jun 08 06:13:27 RST38h, yawn indeed Jun 08 06:13:39 i have like 90 thanks on ITT just from the one thread :P Jun 08 06:13:55 how are things? are we making good progress toward total annihilation? Jun 08 06:14:08 RST38h, any headway on the sound stutter in the NES emu? Jun 08 06:14:10 rm_you, you see, now, why I had you post instead of me. :P Jun 08 06:14:17 rm_you: it all depends on how Quim weights them Jun 08 06:14:20 anyways, brb shower, GeneralAntilles: TEST :P Jun 08 06:14:24 Am! Jun 08 06:14:27 I don't even care tho :P Jun 08 06:14:43 about karma or whatever Jun 08 06:14:47 not sure why it matters :P Jun 08 06:14:50 Navi: Does not appear to stutter for me any more Jun 08 06:14:55 People catching up encourages me to spam help and increase my lead some more. ;) Jun 08 06:14:56 Sweet. Jun 08 06:14:59 [in the latest release that is] Jun 08 06:15:00 anyways, brb shower, GeneralAntilles: TEST :P Jun 08 06:15:01 rm_you: it matters because i can't verify my bug otherwise Jun 08 06:15:04 Am! Jun 08 06:15:05 Oh Jun 08 06:15:09 RST38h, I still get it Jun 08 06:15:11 :P Jun 08 06:15:23 I big positive number saddens me Jun 08 06:15:29 Navi: it may be skipping a buffer every now and then Jun 08 06:15:33 I want a big negative number Jun 08 06:15:56 It's GA's fault for half my thanks Jun 08 06:16:01 due to something else eating into your cpu Jun 08 06:16:10 RST38h, I don't have anything running at all Jun 08 06:16:15 oh right Jun 08 06:16:23 speaking of great integration bugs Jun 08 06:16:31 I turned off all my applets, no statusbar crap Jun 08 06:16:51 check out https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=437741 Jun 08 06:16:51 killed any unneeded processes Jun 08 06:17:16 timelyx, funny Jun 08 06:17:16 lol Jun 08 06:17:30 rm_you, seems fine, but I have more Prefs dialog complaints. :P Jun 08 06:17:31 sadly, there are also printer bugs like that Jun 08 06:17:46 "my postscript printer went crazy because of your input, so i had to shoot it" Jun 08 06:18:23 Zombie printer? Jun 08 06:18:26 Shit, that sounds bad. Jun 08 06:19:12 there's also the ubuntu bug... Jun 08 06:19:42 i can't report crashes... your crash reporter uses system's libcurl because everyone says distros are best able to distribute working software Jun 08 06:19:43 Finding Printers with Google Jun 08 06:19:43 Sometimes for convenience admins will put links to there printers' web interfaces on an Intranet site so they can easily admin them or pull off stored documents. Well, sometimes an Intranet is not really just an Intranet but accessible via the Internet. Google is a great way to find these printers. Here are a few search strings that may be of interest: Jun 08 06:19:43 Ricoh Savins (Since these printer frequently store documents where to can be downloaded this can be a real killer for security) Jun 08 06:19:44 intitle:"web image monitor" Jun 08 06:19:46 "/web/user/en/websys/webArch/mainFrame.cgi" Jun 08 06:19:50 inurl:"/en/sts_index.cgi" Jun 08 06:19:51 us: can curl visit https://anything/ ? Jun 08 06:19:52 HP Jetdirects (Varies greatly from model to model) Jun 08 06:19:53 them: nope Jun 08 06:19:54 inurl:hp/device/this.LCDispatcher Jun 08 06:19:56 CUPS Connected Printers Jun 08 06:19:57 us: oh, how nice Jun 08 06:19:58 inurl:":631/printers" -php -demo Jun 08 06:20:01 Try combining the above with the Google "site:" parameter to restrict the search to just certain organizations. " - You can make someone's printer crazy.. Jun 08 06:20:03 qwerty12, Jesus, paste spam. Jun 08 06:20:03 Oh shit, sorry. Jun 08 06:20:15 What an ass. Jun 08 06:20:18 I know >.> Jun 08 06:20:22 If I were an op I would ban you. :P Jun 08 06:20:45 I would ban GeneralAntilles if I were an op Jun 08 06:20:46 But you are not so I take pleasure in the fact that *you* can't touch this :p Jun 08 06:20:53 Navi: weird...n810? top frequency? Jun 08 06:21:02 RST38h, N800 Jun 08 06:21:10 qwerty: Print alien messages on it! Jun 08 06:21:15 Navi: OS2008? Jun 08 06:21:19 RST38h, yes Jun 08 06:21:29 hm Jun 08 06:22:22 where are channel the esbox ??? Jun 08 06:22:37 gfcs, what? Jun 08 06:22:52 Where is the esbox channel? Jun 08 06:23:02 (literal translation :/) Jun 08 06:23:04 Again, what? Jun 08 06:23:09 There is a channel esbox Jun 08 06:23:18 Navi, No ideaz Jun 08 06:24:19 gfcs, no Jun 08 06:24:33 gfcs, 1 min search, I go here: http://esbox.garage.maemo.org/, click contributing and guess what I see? Jun 08 06:24:37 Not for esbox specifically Jun 08 06:24:37 * Realtime Chat (IRC) Jun 08 06:24:37 * Server: irc.freenode.org Jun 08 06:24:37 * Channel: #esbox Jun 08 06:24:51 qwerty12, you realize the channel is unregged and empty, right? Jun 08 06:24:57 Really? Jun 08 06:25:01 I've never been Jun 08 06:25:01 Yes. Jun 08 06:25:16 This place is as good a place as any other to ask Jun 08 06:25:21 if you have a question Jun 08 06:25:53 Or if #canola is as dead as it is, maybe there, INdT guys are there. Jun 08 06:26:14 The INdT are at home sleeping at this time :P Jun 08 06:26:46 They get on during working hours, only once in a while in their free time Jun 08 06:27:44 * timelyx tries to figure out http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19855 Jun 08 06:28:15 * timelyx gives up Jun 08 06:28:20 Ha Jun 08 06:28:21 anyone here speak ITT? Jun 08 06:28:26 How did you get there? Jun 08 06:28:38 timelyx, what do you mean? Jun 08 06:28:41 oh Jun 08 06:29:02 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1889 Jun 08 06:29:24 I speak itT, but apparently I'm a troll that likes to "snipe" posts Jun 08 06:29:25 fwiw, iirc a birdie may have told me this is fixed in diablo Jun 08 06:29:36 Does anyone has any ideas how to detect if (python) softaware is run on maemo Jun 08 06:29:40 evill trolls Jun 08 06:29:47 all of you! Jun 08 06:29:48 timelyx, you are pretty fast. I only bumped up that bug 15 mins ago :p Jun 08 06:30:06 qwerty12: gmail makes reading stuff easy Jun 08 06:30:44 I'm missing my Gmail manager firefox extension :(. Gonna "force" install that one again. Stupid Ubuntu and their firefox 3 :( Jun 08 06:30:57 timeless is a hard worker Jun 08 06:31:04 woo for timeless \o/ Jun 08 06:31:23 * timelyx ponders Jun 08 06:31:25 qwerty12, nothing stops you from installing FF2 Jun 08 06:31:33 i can hack: bzr, hg, svn, or cvs Jun 08 06:31:43 Navi, Don't really want mess anything up :/ Jun 08 06:31:50 bzr, haven't seen that one in a while Jun 08 06:32:14 http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/bzr/source/README Jun 08 06:32:36 the reason to hack it is for http://mxr-test.landfill.bugzilla.org/bugzilla-bzr/source/ Jun 08 06:32:48 we have some bugzilla downstreams using bzr Jun 08 06:33:00 so being able to offer history links is a good thing Jun 08 06:33:08 atm, i think i'll look into cvs instead Jun 08 06:33:17 cvs is pretty easy Jun 08 06:33:20 but outdated Jun 08 06:37:58 * timelyx nods Jun 08 06:40:18 ok, cvs done Jun 08 06:40:23 * timelyx goes back to one of the others Jun 08 06:42:11 qwerty12: i still don't understand the itt thing Jun 08 06:42:18 am i missing the fact that it's dozens of pages long Jun 08 06:43:20 timelyx, give me a sec Jun 08 06:43:26 All right, let me take a vote: Jun 08 06:43:40 What package would you rather see updated: VGBA or Speccy? Jun 08 06:43:48 VGBA easily :) Jun 08 06:43:56 ^ Jun 08 06:44:15 Visual Game Boy Advance? Jun 08 06:44:36 a'ok Jun 08 06:44:41 timelyx, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=181073&postcount=22 - There is a deb in that post. Installing it makes flash compatible with the camera. Jun 08 06:45:34 qwerty12: ok... much better link Jun 08 06:45:49 does it actually rewrite the flash player so or is it just other stuff? Jun 08 06:46:58 http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/080607/K060702AU.html ... Jun 08 06:47:07 It patches the flashplayer plugin to look for a different video device and the flashcam daemon "wraps" the v4l2 camera device into a v4l1 for flash. Jun 08 06:48:13 In Hinduism, you are meant to have a room for your God(s), you put a statue and the holy book in there iirc. Jun 08 06:49:25 why did it need to change the device path? Jun 08 06:49:36 my understanding was that the current device didn't exist Jun 08 06:50:20 It looks for /dev/video usually but the flashcam daemon forwards the v4l2 camera into a v4l1 /dev/v4l1 device so which the flashplayer is patched to look there instead. Jun 08 06:52:01 ok.. definitions "patches" to me means a binary hack or similar rewrite of an existing file Jun 08 06:52:24 it may well be a source code patch Jun 08 06:52:24 does it actually "patch" flash? or just change the /dev vfs? Jun 08 06:52:34 RST38h: fairly hard w/o the source :) Jun 08 06:53:00 Just changes the /dev/video string. Here's the line, wait a sec Jun 08 06:53:11 sed -i -e "s/\/dev\/video/\/dev\/v4lv1/g" /usr/lib/browser/plugins/libflashplayer.so Jun 08 06:53:32 That way, you don't need to use flashcam-wrapper. Jun 08 06:55:15 is it properly version pinned against the current flashplayer version? Jun 08 06:55:54 If you mean does it have a dependency set, then no. But it seems pretty generic to me. Jun 08 06:56:23 that's bad Jun 08 06:56:34 for one, there will be a new version which will work correctly Jun 08 06:56:49 Ooh, nice Jun 08 06:56:51 for another, the string could appear in random instances where it shouldn't be changed Jun 08 06:56:57 qwerty12: no guarantees as to when Jun 08 06:57:04 although i'm fairly certain diablo :) Jun 08 06:57:17 * qwerty12 waits for the SSU :) Jun 08 06:57:41 Seeing as you are here, know if nokia plan on updating the bluez? Jun 08 06:59:11 iirc we employ one of those devs Jun 08 06:59:25 my guess would be fremantle or whatever was after diablo Jun 08 07:02:02 * qwerty12 gets round to compiling the latest mplayer rc2 svn. I don't know why ssvb won't switch. wmv & flv are a lot better in rc2 :( Jun 08 07:02:07 GeneralAntilles: wha? Jun 08 07:02:12 GeneralAntilles: WHAT CHANGES?!!??!! Jun 08 07:02:17 * rm_you turns into Hulk Jun 08 07:02:23 AHH!!!!!!!!!!! Jun 08 07:02:34 Hah Jun 08 07:02:37 * GeneralAntilles throws cold water on the big green dude. Jun 08 07:02:39 Not that I'm discouraging your input :P Jun 08 07:02:44 rm_you is a part-time nerd with an anger management problem Jun 08 07:02:50 Heh Jun 08 07:03:12 OK, labels need to be right-aligned and setting fields need to be left-aligned Jun 08 07:03:19 See the other prefs dialogs for examples. Jun 08 07:03:31 <_< Jun 08 07:03:37 wheee Jun 08 07:03:41 I crashed firefox... Jun 08 07:03:43 Hardware brightness +/- sounds stupid Jun 08 07:03:48 with File -> Exit Jun 08 07:03:57 Firefox 3? Jun 08 07:04:00 2 Jun 08 07:04:03 Try "Hardware brightness interval" Jun 08 07:04:05 Or something Jun 08 07:04:06 k Jun 08 07:04:13 Maybe "Hardware key brightness interval Jun 08 07:04:14 " Jun 08 07:04:16 I had four firefox windows open, each with ~ 40 tabs Jun 08 07:04:22 Ew Jun 08 07:04:24 eek Jun 08 07:04:27 apparently the session saver has issues with that Jun 08 07:04:33 :P Jun 08 07:04:36 ah well Jun 08 07:04:37 Then I would linebreak the zero backlight line at the ( Jun 08 07:04:38 * timelyx shrugs Jun 08 07:04:39 time to close opera too Jun 08 07:04:43 i know people w/ hundreds of tabs Jun 08 07:04:44 >_> Jun 08 07:04:48 who use session saver Jun 08 07:04:51 but they're all craz Jun 08 07:04:57 too many tabs Jun 08 07:05:02 I also run opera, which has only two windows with ~20 tabs each Jun 08 07:05:07 having that many tabs is just ridiculous Jun 08 07:05:19 I figure splitting up the tabs between browsers would help Jun 08 07:05:22 but apparently not much Jun 08 07:06:24 wow i hardcore need to free up space and defragment Jun 08 07:06:25 <_< Jun 08 07:06:25 Oh, and add a setting for the volume beep. Jun 08 07:06:30 GeneralAntilles: yes. Jun 08 07:06:36 GeneralAntilles: add a TODO for that Jun 08 07:06:43 i gotta shut down this compy and mode it Jun 08 07:06:46 s/mode/move/ Jun 08 07:06:47 rm_you meant: i gotta shut down this compy and move it Jun 08 07:06:50 Whore Jun 08 07:06:55 one TODO for all of those prefs changes will work Jun 08 07:07:05 OK Jun 08 07:08:42 bbl Jun 08 07:09:03 Hmm, anyone want some Libass? Jun 08 07:09:51 No, no ass for me, thanks! Jun 08 07:10:55 VGBA 3.5.1 released. FEED! Jun 08 07:11:01 Just saw, thanks! Jun 08 07:11:24 nomnomnom Jun 08 07:11:37 RST38h, zomg Jun 08 07:11:38 Just out of question, what button is ALT on a N800? I guess I could xmodmap... Jun 08 07:13:14 * qwerty12 can't wait to get some mplayer svn goodness. After 20 mins, mplayer starts sucking >.< Jun 08 07:19:08 qwerty: ALT can only be found on a bt keyboard Jun 08 07:19:21 :/ xmodmap it is. Jun 08 07:20:02 Why do you need ALT? Jun 08 07:20:48 "* Directional pad center now only works as START when SHIFT, CONTROL, ot ALT is pressed." - Can be useful for me sometimes, holding a button to use the dpad center. Jun 08 07:20:57 Ah that Jun 08 07:21:05 just touch the right-bottom screen corner Jun 08 07:21:18 it will work as start Jun 08 07:21:35 * qwerty12 prefers buttons. Kinda of an irony as I bought N800 instead of 810 but ah well. Jun 08 07:21:57 You only need to press START rarely Jun 08 07:22:06 True Jun 08 07:22:11 so touching a screen should not be much of a problem Jun 08 07:24:31 qwerty12, that guy is quite the developer. <_< Jun 08 07:24:49 Heh Jun 08 07:24:55 I know what you mean Jun 08 07:25:30 No! Bad "developer"! Pick another platform and keep your code the fuck away from my N800. Jun 08 07:26:58 Hmm, is the maemo mplayer based on MPlayer-1.0rc1, MPlayer-1.0rc1try2 or MPlayer-1.0rc1try3? Jun 08 07:28:15 "Heat wave hits DC" Jun 08 07:28:48 Screw DC Jun 08 07:28:49 * RST38h looks at thermometer (+15oC) and chuckles. Let 'em boil ;) Jun 08 07:28:53 The heat wave is here. Jun 08 07:29:22 Well you have got a permanent heat wave Jun 08 07:29:29 Nah Jun 08 07:29:34 Well, by some standards I guess Jun 08 07:29:41 But it gets cold enough for me in the winter. :P Jun 08 07:30:05 It gets cold enough for me Jun 08 07:30:09 but that's not the problem Jun 08 07:30:12 * GeneralAntilles freezes and dies if it gets much bellow 5°C Jun 08 07:30:17 I just wish it'd STAY cold for more than two days Jun 08 07:30:21 5oF or 5oC? Jun 08 07:30:35 * qwerty12 is in London, UK. Heat wave? Jun 08 07:31:02 That should've been a degree symbol. Jun 08 07:31:15 and the C was correct. Jun 08 07:31:29 5oC is kinda warm Jun 08 07:31:36 0.O Jun 08 07:31:37 Not for my blood. Jun 08 07:31:47 5C is ok Jun 08 07:31:54 35C isn't Jun 08 07:32:12 * RST38h generally notices when it falls below -20oC. Until that it is nothing to worry about Jun 08 07:32:23 35oC sucks though Jun 08 07:32:40 35°C I can handle. ;) Jun 08 07:33:07 Anything above +25oC sucks. Jun 08 07:33:15 pfft Jun 08 07:33:18 * KotCzarny nods Jun 08 07:33:20 35C is nothing Jun 08 07:33:32 "Shuttered Embassies Spread Capital Angst" Jun 08 07:33:42 even 20C with humid is nasty Jun 08 07:33:56 20oC is ok Jun 08 07:34:01 humid or not, it is ok Jun 08 07:34:08 not true. Jun 08 07:34:18 +5oC + humid is nasty Jun 08 07:34:33 Florida winters are all humidity. Jun 08 07:34:42 Dry winters here Jun 08 07:34:44 woo \o/ Jun 08 07:35:04 but summer sucks in nyc Jun 08 07:35:32 Summers are all 45C and humid though :( Jun 08 07:35:55 Here, anything liquid but antifreeze is nicely refrigerated to solid state in winter Jun 08 07:36:02 heh Jun 08 07:36:22 sometimes it's so humid that iron objects rust on my desk Jun 08 07:36:27 in a day Jun 08 07:38:03 NYC? Jun 08 07:38:25 * KotCzarny nods Jun 08 07:39:05 * timelyx sighs Jun 08 07:39:14 for people looking for useless bugs to read Jun 08 07:39:14 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/188540 Jun 08 07:39:43 Ooh, goody! Bugs to read! Jun 08 07:39:53 as a warning: they aren't worth reading Jun 08 07:40:00 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnump3d/+bug/160381 Jun 08 07:40:17 Aww, you brought my hopes up. Only to bring them down again :( Jun 08 07:40:36 they're funny! Jun 08 07:41:28 timelyx: ubuntu users always file silly bugs :P Jun 08 07:43:37 data:text/html, Jun 08 07:43:52 an ubuntu user complains that there's a red box on that page ... Jun 08 07:44:03 serious? Jun 08 07:44:07 what did they want? Jun 08 07:44:09 quite Jun 08 07:44:16 " nothing " Jun 08 07:45:05 sigh Jun 08 07:45:06 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/224350 Jun 08 07:45:10 in case you'd like to read it Jun 08 07:45:21 will when I start X again ;P Jun 08 07:45:23 what happens in gecko is that has a default style Jun 08 07:45:31 (display:none) Jun 08 07:45:40 but setting display:inline of course overrides that ... Jun 08 07:46:01 idiots Jun 08 07:46:13 "ubuntu users" Jun 08 07:46:24 "users" Jun 08 07:46:26 you say tomato, i say tomato Jun 08 07:46:53 Navi: i object! Jun 08 07:47:01 Objection overruled Jun 08 07:47:09 someone who writes a web page is supposed to be considered a "web developer" Jun 08 07:47:24 as such, that someone is ineligible for "user" designation Jun 08 07:47:31 timelyx: Can I ping you about https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1671 Jun 08 07:47:47 Any idea if there was progress on that? Jun 08 07:47:55 X-Fade_: you don't like romaxa's greek? Jun 08 07:48:00 (it's actually russian, but..) Jun 08 07:48:16 pinging me here doesn't work well Jun 08 07:48:26 my mac doesn't know my password for the other bug tracker Jun 08 07:48:56 No, but you can look at by 4821 maybe? Is that a mozilla bug or a is that NB4821 ? Jun 08 07:49:07 mozilla bugs are 6 digits long :) Jun 08 07:49:18 ok ;) Jun 08 07:49:48 http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/search?string=nb&find=browser.*changelog&findi=&filter=4821&hitlimit=&tree=garage Jun 08 07:49:53 would be a reasonable way to hunt for it Jun 08 07:50:22 (course, that only works if i've updated the xref for that server, which i haven't recently) Jun 08 07:50:47 And if mxr was added to the maemo.org domain ;) Jun 08 07:51:41 yeah well... i need to talk to someone about doing that Jun 08 07:51:52 the dns hack was just to enable seemless staging Jun 08 07:52:04 someone could fix the dns today and it'd just work Jun 08 07:52:23 timelyx: Maybe you can discuss that with Marcell? Jun 08 07:53:08 i should Jun 08 07:53:11 timelyx: If it works and is useful for the maemo community, I don't see any reasons why not. Jun 08 07:53:28 i should see if i have numbers for people using it Jun 08 07:54:00 We can always do it the google way and announce it as beta ;) Jun 08 07:54:09 hah Jun 08 07:54:56 heh Jun 08 07:56:16 http://www.snopes.com/military/lighthouse.asp is amusing Jun 08 07:57:53 "In 1995 an embarrassing conversation between a lighthouse and an aircraft carrier " - Ok. Where's the sex scandal? Jun 08 07:58:56 heh Jun 08 07:59:10 tailhook was on land, don't you know? Jun 08 07:59:38 heh Jun 08 07:59:58 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/navy/tailhook/ Jun 08 08:00:06 for people who *don't* get the reference.. Jun 08 08:00:47 THIS SITE CONTAINS SEXUALLY EXPLICIT MATERIAL. PARENTAL DISCRETION ADVISED. Jun 08 08:00:48 wow Jun 08 08:00:57 that's not something i see @pbs.org very often ... Jun 08 08:01:00 Too late for me :p Jun 08 08:02:49 hi, all....can I export minisd card in my n810 by usb? Jun 08 08:03:10 or only internal flsh? Jun 08 08:03:16 *flash Jun 08 08:03:51 both should be exported as long as they aren't in use Jun 08 08:05:55 really...thx...but 5 min ago no exported minisd I've seen Jun 08 08:09:50 you can try closing all apps and unplugging+replugging the usb cable (be sure to use the host's safely remove feature...) Jun 08 08:13:52 timelyx: do you know any app for reading .odt files? Jun 08 08:14:24 or .doc Jun 08 08:14:44 as I see abiword not functional? Jun 08 08:16:01 * qwerty12 has never seen my computer compile this fast before. I'm in awe, Jun 08 08:17:17 on the tablets? Jun 08 08:17:25 i think google.com can read .odt and .doc Jun 08 08:17:29 it should work :) Jun 08 08:17:48 There's antiword for the tablets too Jun 08 08:18:02 (you can choose from google.com, docs.google.com, and mail.google.com each has its own handler) Jun 08 08:52:38 does anyone use blogger.com and is it a reasonable firstport type of place? Jun 08 08:53:02 actually, its ok ive just remembered ive got somewhere Jun 08 08:54:59 lcuk: I use blogger. Works ok for me. Jun 08 08:55:39 Hmm, I'm running "diff -NruB --exclude='*svn\-base*'" but .svn folders still get included, any ideas? Jun 08 08:56:26 ta X-Fade_ :) i think ill pup my maemo stuff up on maemopeople for now, i hink ive got some catching up to do.. Jun 08 08:56:31 qwerty12: Did you try "svn diff"? Jun 08 08:56:55 No, will try now, thanks Jun 08 08:58:12 what software for maemo can read .odf or .doc? Jun 08 09:04:31 check out the software pool on maemo.org Jun 08 09:12:00 qwerty12: why not exclude '\.svn' ? Jun 08 09:12:14 but yeah, if you're using svn, use it Jun 08 09:12:35 I don't need svn and it seems to be messing up other things ,but thanks, I'll try that out. Jun 08 09:17:38 to list process info in c, am i just as well to parse "top" or is there an api? Jun 08 09:22:50 you could look at /proc Jun 08 09:22:57 but i'm sure there are better ways Jun 08 09:24:06 morning all Jun 08 09:24:16 'morning Jun 08 09:24:39 hi qwerty12 Jun 08 09:27:16 qwerty12: Could you tell me the file size of /lib/dsp/avs_kernel.out please? Jun 08 09:27:22 on diablo that is Jun 08 09:27:29 Checking... Jun 08 09:27:57 962048 according to ls Jun 08 09:28:10 ok, so they've made some change to it then Jun 08 09:28:19 thanks Jun 08 09:28:23 np Jun 08 09:31:11 lardman, no idea if this helps any: http://pastebin.com/df611c80 Jun 08 09:31:11 hmmm Jun 08 09:32:15 well at least things are being fixed, just a shame we don't have a translator for their internal bugtracker to ours Jun 08 09:32:34 GAN800: back Jun 08 09:32:54 Who wants to hax nokia :p Jun 08 09:33:02 steal their dsme source Jun 08 09:33:03 does anyone have a list of all the processes that can safely be killed? Jun 08 09:33:18 or is it still trial and error.. Jun 08 09:33:25 qwerty12: mememe Jun 08 09:33:48 rm_you|n800, ok, ve shall attack the enemy at 20:00 GMT Jun 08 09:33:59 but i'd rather get their display applet Jun 08 09:34:26 Nokia really suck for closing the source to their applets Jun 08 09:34:32 * qwerty12 rolls some serious eyes Jun 08 09:34:33 qwerty12: what do you need to know about DSME? Jun 08 09:34:39 It's quite pathetic. Jun 08 09:34:47 s/qwerty/lcuk Jun 08 09:34:47 lardman, nothing but it would open up a lot :) Jun 08 09:34:48 sorry Jun 08 09:34:51 ah Jun 08 09:35:10 oh it was qwerty12, I've just fallen out of bed, brain not really at 100% yet Jun 08 09:35:32 qwerty12: there's not much interesting in there really Jun 08 09:35:48 not a great deal lardman but if what i need is in there im sure ill find out Jun 08 09:36:05 * qwerty12 goes to find IDA for Linux Jun 08 09:48:27 lardman: if you really need it i can look things up Jun 08 09:48:33 i just really don't want to go near the tracker from home Jun 08 09:50:08 timelyx: What's that dsme? Jun 08 09:50:58 anything for which you want translations of bug numbers Jun 08 09:51:01 timelyx: look stuff up for me ;P Jun 08 09:51:11 mind you, ime translating stuff takes a really really long time Jun 08 09:51:16 timelyx, missed your suggestion, thx it might be enough Jun 08 09:51:24 ah, I see Jun 08 09:51:27 the relnotes for browser will take me over a month each time Jun 08 09:51:35 and that's mostly translating the bug database Jun 08 09:51:57 this is merely an offer, no QoS and certainly no time guarantees Jun 08 09:52:07 i've already told rm_you i don't intend to look before tuesday :) Jun 08 09:52:17 * timelyx would rather watch a movie Jun 08 09:52:20 (iron man?) Jun 08 09:52:33 :) Jun 08 09:53:12 * qwerty12 lmaoed at harold and kumar escape from guantanamo bay. + they show 770 :p Jun 08 09:53:39 timelyx: Well bug numbers NB#77985, NB#79278, NB#72051, NB#70443 would be interesting, but no rush from my point of view Jun 08 09:54:14 timelyx: is it so time consuming as you have to filter out confidential info, and get permission to release the info? Jun 08 09:54:39 no Jun 08 09:54:55 it's time consuming because the bug contents are like the ubuntu bugs i've referenced recently Jun 08 09:55:00 mostly indecipherable garbage :) Jun 08 09:55:17 :D Jun 08 09:55:24 source code is the other way, there i have to figure out what you could already know or figure out and then rewrite it to match that Jun 08 09:55:35 I'm happy to see the raw data/report if that helps Jun 08 09:55:38 iow, what i'm releasing should not actually be private Jun 08 09:55:57 if it's private, i'll tell you to find some other channel Jun 08 09:56:07 cool, thanks for the offer Jun 08 09:56:08 either someone associated w/ the bug/package, or someone like quim Jun 08 09:56:10 lcuk: nice video of liqbase, really awesome stuff Jun 08 09:56:31 :) trickie Jun 08 09:56:44 lol, yes timelyx; i realize it is hard on you >_> but thanks very much for any assistance Jun 08 09:57:08 six months of frustration with something that SHOULD be simple but just isn't.... it goes to my head <_< Jun 08 09:57:12 lcuk: Got a vid of the physics stuff yet? Even if it's old code, stick it up there, it's cool :) Jun 08 09:58:20 no, but i will have soon, ive improved the dodging code somewhat :) and found some answers to niggly little things which annoyed me Jun 08 09:58:32 lcuk: :) Jun 08 09:58:43 ~lart bluez-utils for not building! Jun 08 09:58:43 * infobot cats /dev/urandom into bluez-utils's ear for not building! Jun 08 09:59:04 I need to build a newer version of bluez-utils. Jun 08 09:59:13 Are you building stock or nokia's version? Jun 08 09:59:27 I thought I'd build Nokia's version Jun 08 09:59:38 just so it slots straight in, but with my sbc changes Jun 08 09:59:40 Ah, have you built libbluetooth2 as well? Jun 08 09:59:45 no Jun 08 10:00:11 iirc that's nokia equivalent of bluez-libs (needed to build utils) Jun 08 10:00:12 lardman: >_> Jun 08 10:00:13 http://maemo.pastebin.com/m2c63701 Jun 08 10:00:43 You haven't been messing with qemu by any chance? Jun 08 10:00:53 nope, not done a thing Jun 08 10:01:11 What does config.log say? Jun 08 10:01:36 nothing Jun 08 10:01:52 well nothing related anyway, other than: configure: exit 1 Jun 08 10:02:25 It's compiling for me fine :/ Jun 08 10:02:30 But I haven't made any changes Jun 08 10:02:38 MAKEINFO='${SHELL} /home/simon/build/dsp/sbc/test/bluez-utils-3.20/missing --run makeinfo' Jun 08 10:02:43 is that usual? Jun 08 10:05:06 No idea, but the debs built fine over here. Jun 08 10:06:21 interesting, when I try to run a binary I get: mmap: Permission denied Jun 08 10:06:33 Ubuntu Hardy? Jun 08 10:06:37 yes Jun 08 10:07:01 Shove in the line vm.mmap_min_addr = 4096 in /etc/sysctl.conf Jun 08 10:07:20 cool, just found inz's page; thanks Jun 08 10:07:40 Nokia have updated their release notes: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.0.1/INSTALL.txt Jun 08 10:08:16 Everybody finds my page Jun 08 10:08:34 Sounds spooky Jun 08 10:08:58 * qwerty12 wishes Nokia would set up Diablo sdk repo Jun 08 10:08:59 Well, only when they're googling for Hardy scratchbox mmap Jun 08 10:10:32 inz: Thanks for the fix Jun 08 10:10:43 I forgot that it had updated my kernel Jun 08 10:10:50 lardman, I guess I was just lucky to be the first to hit the issue =) Jun 08 10:10:58 luck!? ;) Jun 08 10:11:05 yeah, got lots of hits for it ;) Jun 08 10:11:30 That's what you get when you upgrade your work laptop to experimental distro ;) Jun 08 10:12:25 how to syncronize n810 contacts with s60 phone or with kde desktop? Jun 08 10:12:26 qwerty12: what version did you compile, looks like the sbc stuff from 3.31 won't play with the rest of 3.20 Jun 08 10:13:12 updated june, eh? Jun 08 10:13:23 I just compiled the 3.22 from Nokia's repo now but yesterday, I compiled 3.32 fine Jun 08 10:14:08 qwerty12: are there any strange Nokia patches to know about? Jun 08 10:15:32 does anyone find clicking a link in gmail hangs - ie i get a mail with a link in it, but clicking it holds on a mail.google.com intermediate page? Jun 08 10:15:34 The bluez from Nokia's repo does apply a patch. I did compile a clean Bluez from the main site fine though. Jun 08 10:16:14 lcuk: there are something like a dozen different versions of gmail Jun 08 10:16:16 G'day Jun 08 10:16:20 http://mail.google.com/mail/x Jun 08 10:16:21 http://mail.google.com/mail/h Jun 08 10:16:24 http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=1 Jun 08 10:16:25 I'm gonna see if I can update my Diablo's bluez from 3.28 to 3.32 using nokia's patch. Jun 08 10:16:25 http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2 Jun 08 10:16:26 ... Jun 08 10:16:31 which one are you using ? :) Jun 08 10:16:35 Can anyone tell me, stupid question, but should the navigator button on the N810 be able to click both left and right? Jun 08 10:16:36 qwerty12: Did you work out what version you were running in diablo? Jun 08 10:16:46 Mine will only go right, it doesn't work when I try to click left Jun 08 10:16:57 ah, strike that question Jun 08 10:17:04 lardman, It's 3.28, my CPU went way over so I rebooted but when I said what version it is, you were away Jun 08 10:17:05 ah Jun 08 10:17:16 I wanted to check before I get too far down the road setting it up, if I have to send it away to be repaired / replaced :( Jun 08 10:17:34 Anyone? Jun 08 10:17:49 * qwerty12 needs to learn ASM. I need to disassemble the region binary. Jun 08 10:18:11 Does anyone have an N810? Jun 08 10:18:19 N800 here, sorry. Jun 08 10:18:36 thx timely, it was just the default? http://mail.google.com/mail/?shva=1#inbox/myinbox and the link went via http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=otherstuff Jun 08 10:18:38 qwerty12: The button on the pad goes left as well as right on the 800 right? Jun 08 10:18:57 On my N800, pressing left and right works fine. Jun 08 10:18:57 qwerty12: I'm guessing it must be a fault, because the right button is very, very sensitive Jun 08 10:19:15 qwerty12: Ok, great, thanks, I'm sure it's supposed to work on the 810 also, oh dear, new tablet and it doesn't work :( Jun 08 10:19:37 Where are you trying to use it? (the buttons that is) Jun 08 10:19:39 chmac thanks i got it working that way Jun 08 10:19:53 chmac: You should be able to move left and right on the 4-way scrolly thing, yes Jun 08 10:20:07 lardman: Ok, great, thanks Jun 08 10:20:20 What a bummer, just spent 4 hours on trains to pick it up and it's got a hardware fault :( Jun 08 10:22:13 lcuk: ok.... fwiw, i've had problems w/ the js ui in safari 1 here... Jun 08 10:22:17 chmac: 2nd hand? Jun 08 10:22:21 i've given up and switched to /h/ Jun 08 10:22:38 i'd already switched my n8x0s to use /h/ most of the time a while ago Jun 08 10:22:41 lardman: I got it on eBay, but it was in a sealed box, the girl said she won it on the radio Jun 08 10:22:46 It was definitely unopened though Jun 08 10:23:02 I'm just hoping it's less than a year old, should be a simple warrant claim I guess Jun 08 10:23:21 so you can't scroll left when you're in notes for example? Jun 08 10:24:25 Ok, the Nokia patch applies fine on bluez-libs 3.32 but the Nokia patch for bluez-utils 3.22 fails when patched on 3.32. Jun 08 10:24:35 I'm gonna patch it in by hand >.< Jun 08 10:24:41 lardman: Can't scroll in anything Jun 08 10:24:53 chmac: ok, sounds faulty then. Sorry Jun 08 10:25:12 qwerty12: cool, let me know when you're done, I'd like to use the patch please Jun 08 10:25:24 lardman: Yeah, I guessed as soon as I tried it, but wanted to check because it's called a D scroller! Jun 08 10:25:37 Thought it was unlikely that it didn't scroll left! Jun 08 10:25:56 Thanks for all your help guys, here's hoping they can replace it fairly soon Jun 08 10:26:01 lardman, will do Jun 08 10:26:05 I've added this channel to my auto-join, so I'll see yall soon :) Jun 08 10:28:30 Nice, #Disable=Control,Source is replaced with Disable=Sink. Jun 08 10:54:16 where i can get the source code of maemo? Jun 08 10:55:16 dpkg-buildpackage doesn't keep a log anywhere does it? Jun 08 10:56:17 Never mind Jun 08 11:00:59 Ok, I did a extremely dirty hack to make a nokia deb for 3.32, I have no idea if this will compile. Jun 08 11:02:57 Ok, done, 3.32 compiles fine. Jun 08 11:03:15 (WIth dodgy hacks for Nokia compatibity)... Jun 08 11:03:27 dodgy? Jun 08 11:04:01 did all of the Nokia patches apply ok? Jun 08 11:04:16 If so, could I grab a copy please? Jun 08 11:04:23 of the diff that is Jun 08 11:04:30 Well, I kinda used a variation on the Nokia patch :/ Jun 08 11:05:25 config.guess and config.sub - the main thing was making it use exit 0;; instead of exit;;, it did some odd stuff removing architectures which to me was pointless Jun 08 11:05:50 I stole the debian folder from the 3.22 and inserted it into 3.32 Jun 08 11:06:20 Some files were missing so I copied them from 3.22 into 3.32 not overwriting any 3.32 things Jun 08 11:06:51 anyone please? ..i'm looking for the email app sources, where i can find them ? Jun 08 11:07:11 All the patches in debian/patches applied fine except for the bt-sdp one, so I applied manually. Jun 08 11:07:21 Still interested?... Jun 08 11:14:27 qwerty12_N800: yes please, got to go food shopping now though, but should be back in ~an hour Jun 08 11:14:56 ok, but I cannot provide no diff :/ Jun 08 11:15:23 ah, ok well I'll have a look myself then - you say they applied ok except for the last one? Jun 08 11:15:55 Yes, but it's only a tiny patch, so it only takes a second Jun 08 11:16:08 I can give the tar.bz2 though? Jun 08 12:01:15 hola Jun 08 12:05:47 * lcuk ponders collaboration Jun 08 12:07:20 lcuk: it's what Open Source is all about :P Jun 08 12:08:34 it is, but im still trying to find out whether i want to go down this route and whether it will restrict me later Jun 08 12:09:21 go down the open source route? Jun 08 12:09:29 restrict you from what? Jun 08 12:09:44 you want to make closed source software? >_> Jun 08 12:09:58 it's not like you give up the rights to anything... Jun 08 12:10:10 you can relicense later if you want, or keep a dual license... Jun 08 12:10:14 no, but accepting patches and modifications would Jun 08 12:10:19 <_< Jun 08 12:10:50 I really never thought I'd find someone on one of these IRC channels that didn't believe in Open Source <_< Jun 08 12:10:51 im erring more towards making the rendering and background code open - its usable mainly on this device Jun 08 12:11:04 you want to sell your app? Jun 08 12:11:25 its a distinct possibility - with the other things i have in mind especially so Jun 08 12:11:39 :/ Jun 08 12:12:01 open source != commercial Jun 08 12:12:09 donation based open source is always possible, or bounties :P Jun 08 12:12:12 i work in a closed shop and if (for instance) i coded up our breadwinner for fast smooth maemo i wouldnt be able to open it Jun 08 12:12:13 you could license it such that it is "open source" but any use on a non-maemo device requires a licensing fee Jun 08 12:12:19 but the two can play together nicely Jun 08 12:12:50 and just put in a clause that any submitted patches become your property Jun 08 12:12:56 i know they can play together, and now it seems that my initial learning phase is over i can start to do real things with it Jun 08 12:12:59 and must be released under your license Jun 08 12:13:28 no, that wouldnt be good - i think having the library fully gpl would be the best approach - if people wanna build their own modules for it then great Jun 08 12:13:41 i have no problems there Jun 08 12:14:01 I may take donations on software, but I don't think I'll *ever* build software in my own time that isn't GPL or some open source license :( Jun 08 12:14:04 its just i cannot release this whole monolic liqbase Jun 08 12:14:47 i quite like the idea of apps at home being free (ie on maemo) Jun 08 12:14:48 I guess if the open source philosophy isn't appealing to you :/ Jun 08 12:15:28 i started coding before linux was mainstream in a world with shareware and closed source apps - and it worked, most people dont care Jun 08 12:15:34 nobody's complaining that garnetvm isn't FOSS Jun 08 12:15:44 sorry, most of the people you'll talk to in this channel spend an inordinate amount of time BATTLING to get the source on various things open Jun 08 12:15:46 as long as the app is maintained it was not a problem Jun 08 12:15:49 users care that it works Jun 08 12:16:21 pupnik: I did <_<\ Jun 08 12:16:32 I'm still kinda annoyed <_< Jun 08 12:16:37 rm_you, i was at linuxtag recently and had long discussions with lots of people and i read and watch an amazing amount of input Jun 08 12:16:50 theres stuff I want to fix in garnetVM, but i can't >_< Jun 08 12:17:07 ok fair enough. did you work on POSE? Jun 08 12:17:20 no? Jun 08 12:17:24 don't know what that is Jun 08 12:17:38 an oss palm emu Jun 08 12:17:42 ah Jun 08 12:17:44 no Jun 08 12:17:45 but when i see nokia themselves dipping their toes but resisting getting their hair wet for similar reasons as me it makes me think Jun 08 12:18:13 it makes me think that they should just dive in the pool and stop all this half-assed shit Jun 08 12:18:33 ^ Jun 08 12:18:35 again, I spend a lot of my time battling closed-source BS... so meh Jun 08 12:19:10 which would require nokia to manufacture their own CPU and SOC without any license limitations. Jun 08 12:19:15 yes, there are a few cases I will deal with it Jun 08 12:19:37 like I live with opera closed source, because, as you mentioned... it WORKS, it works WELL, and it is WELL SUPPORTED Jun 08 12:19:53 if you think you can do that... then I guess it would be worth a shot... if you REALLY want to do that... Jun 08 12:20:10 but I think the future of your application would be MUCH better if it was open source than if it were not Jun 08 12:20:11 i am of the opinion that when a company stops supporting a product it should be open sourced so it doesnt die Jun 08 12:20:19 hear hear Jun 08 12:20:53 but whilst its in active development it doesnt actually matter because someone is around to work on it who knows more than you ever will and how the different elements interplay Jun 08 12:21:08 i mean, it's not like I'd shun you for releasing it closed source... (for more than a week or two) Jun 08 12:21:14 lol Jun 08 12:21:19 shunnn Jun 08 12:21:32 * rm_you points at lcuk accusingly Jun 08 12:22:36 http://pupnik.de/SDL_scrolly_sync.tgz i'd be grateful if someone figgered out how to get vsync'd updates Jun 08 12:22:50 rm_you, let me put it another way - i have nothing against open source, but on my own personal level i dont want to be steered in a different direction and have bugs introduced which i have no idea where they came from. if my employer said "we are releasing your next project as oss" i would be happy because the decision was not mine :) Jun 08 12:23:14 lcuk: you maintain control... Jun 08 12:23:17 lcuk: you don't have to accept patches Jun 08 12:23:25 like, someone submitted a neat patch for advanced-backlight the other day Jun 08 12:23:26 a lot of opensource projects don't Jun 08 12:23:43 i looked at it, decided I liked the functionality... reviewed the code, accepted it was good, and then applied it Jun 08 12:23:49 hmmm well pupnik, i rotated the code editor and noticed i still get a tear about once every 600ms.. Jun 08 12:23:52 i could have at any point there decided it did bad things or wasn't useful Jun 08 12:24:50 nowhere near as bad and i can still get readable smooth text but its noticable to me.. Jun 08 12:25:01 lcuk: lets say this... you can release it as GPL at first, and if it doesn't work out, *you maintain control* so you can just relicense it as a closed app and stop distributing source Jun 08 12:25:06 thanks to lcuk we were able to show that vsync support is broken (at least as we're using it) Jun 08 12:25:47 i think your app is way too cool to keep closed :( Jun 08 12:25:57 pupnik, im getting deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole with all this and ill find out whats taking bandwidth away :) Jun 08 12:26:12 it also can further development of other maemo apps, as they can look to you for examples if you do things that are groundbreaking Jun 08 12:26:32 I don't think failing vsync calls are related to lack of bandwidth Jun 08 12:26:39 that makes no different whether its open or closed Jun 08 12:26:58 well, they can't look at your code for examples if it's closed.... Jun 08 12:27:09 people can't learn from your code, help you with bug fixes, make way cool new features Jun 08 12:27:12 no, but something is interupting the transfer making it over 1frame duration Jun 08 12:27:36 hmm Jun 08 12:27:51 o/ Jun 08 12:28:29 well when i extract the code from my playtest i will see which license feels right - i might even decide to open the code with a custom license as you say - that idea of "free development for maemo" sounds intresting at the least Jun 08 12:28:42 re Jun 08 12:28:52 hi lard \o Jun 08 12:28:54 ~curse shopping Jun 08 12:28:57 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, shopping ! Jun 08 12:29:02 hi lcuk Jun 08 12:29:24 more tearsync opinions (lcuk) http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=82161&postcount=15 Jun 08 12:29:33 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12770&highlight=vsync Jun 08 12:30:11 hi lardman, btw dunno if you caught this message but i cant share the diff but I can give the .tar.bz Jun 08 12:30:29 qwerty12_N800: Of the source? Jun 08 12:30:35 by the way folks: how can i have 500 views of my video already Jun 08 12:30:39 qwerty12_N800: Of the patched source that is? Jun 08 12:30:42 lardman, yeah Jun 08 12:30:46 lcuk: cause its awesome Jun 08 12:30:50 :D Jun 08 12:30:54 qwerty12_N800: What version was that? .32? Jun 08 12:31:00 yeah Jun 08 12:31:15 qwerty12_N800: In which case yep, I'll then replace the sbc dir and compile and hopefully it'll work :) Jun 08 12:31:25 thanks Jun 08 12:31:48 good luck, i'll upload to sendspace as that doesn't crash microb :) Jun 08 12:33:06 * rm_you is on the edge of his seat (gogo lardman! :P) Jun 08 12:33:11 You will need to compile bluez-libs though, but the nokia patch applies fine on version 3.32 of the libs Jun 08 12:33:27 ok Jun 08 12:34:20 lcuk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_license :P Jun 08 12:35:44 http://www.sendspace.com/file/qtlffk Jun 08 12:36:04 Debian folder could do with some cleaning :/ Jun 08 12:37:06 qwerty12_N800: Cool, got it, thanks Jun 08 12:37:25 also, the debs will be made with the old version number (compatible with osso-software-version) but the tools are 3.32 Jun 08 12:37:27 np Jun 08 12:37:45 ah ok, so they are version .28 then? Jun 08 12:37:50 they think they are anyway Jun 08 12:38:34 Just the deb is versioned wrong :) Jun 08 12:38:41 plz, somewone point me to dualboot howto on n810 Jun 08 12:38:45 like a n810 in a 770 box :p Jun 08 12:40:51 nobody know's? Jun 08 12:41:13 lcuk: so, I believe what you can essentially do is this: license your code as GPL, MIT or BSD, whatever... Then require that all patches people submit be released to you either as public domain or actually have them turn over the rights to you, though public domain should be simple enough. Then you can take that and put it in your code and still maintain the legal right to relicense it for commercial purposes Jun 08 12:41:59 if you have GPL'ed code, a patch to it can't be public domain right? Jun 08 12:42:03 it's derived work Jun 08 12:42:09 or am i mistaken? Jun 08 12:42:25 lcuk: so, what that will do is allow all of us open source nuts to do whatever we want with it, but any commercial entity that wants to use it will need to contact you about a dual license or else they wouldnt be able to use it without GPLing their own code Jun 08 12:42:36 but you can request the rights to it to be transferred to you Jun 08 12:42:54 s/request/demand Jun 08 12:42:58 heh yeah Jun 08 12:43:14 i mean, it limits the amount of people that will be willing to submit patches... but it's better than nothing Jun 08 12:43:30 rm, im not against gpl for most of the code im writing, and i think i will be making the main library and stuff sorted. my problem is releasing liqbase as it stands wholesale because its got stuff i want to develop further - this is my playtest area Jun 08 12:43:45 then dual license that? Jun 08 12:44:03 the GPL isn't designed to be limiting to the person that writes the code Jun 08 12:44:05 See QT Jun 08 12:44:10 no, ill just keep the modules which sit ontop of it for specific jobs closed Jun 08 12:44:48 but... that's ridiculous. it's the exact same problem me and several other people are having with nokia right now Jun 08 12:45:09 they think "why not just have these trivial little modules closed?" ... well, lots of reasons >_< Jun 08 12:45:13 and then if my boss wants me to release XYZ on maemo i can say, yer i can make that and not have to try to convince him to open it, because i know he wouldnt Jun 08 12:45:44 you wouldnt have to open it, since you can dual license your software to yourself Jun 08 12:46:01 under a commercial license Jun 08 12:46:15 iby the way, in all of this im not even thinking of the books and sketching.. Jun 08 12:47:02 * lcuk is just planning ahead Jun 08 12:47:54 qwerty12-N800: ping Jun 08 12:47:55 look at canola, they have improved the core components which allow them to work, but they have kept their specific module closed Jun 08 12:47:58 as long as you retain your rights to the code (which, you do...) you can always close it or relicense it whenever you want Jun 08 12:48:07 so i'm not sure why this is an issue at all Jun 08 12:48:08 lardman, pong Jun 08 12:48:29 putting the cat back in the bag is always harder than keeping it inside :) Jun 08 12:48:39 qwerty12-N800: The package has created 3.22, which is odd as Chinook uses 3.20 and I thought Diablo used 3.28? Jun 08 12:48:49 it really isn't difficult... Jun 08 12:48:52 <_< Jun 08 12:49:00 seriously, take a look at how QT did it Jun 08 12:49:28 http://trolltech.com/company/about/businessmodel Jun 08 12:50:00 lardman, nokia's 3.28 isn't available, so I had to do it with the 3.22 version :/. The files inside are 3.32 Jun 08 12:50:03 ok, devils advocate time, i grab all of backlight and decide to release advanced_backlite does that code go away just because you relicense it? Jun 08 12:50:16 no Jun 08 12:50:26 but anything you do with it has to be open source Jun 08 12:50:32 qwerty12-N800: Where did you make the change to the version #, I really need it to think it's 3.20 Jun 08 12:50:48 specifically GPL Jun 08 12:50:59 rm_you, no it doesnt, many companies have proven that Jun 08 12:51:10 then they are in violation of the GPL Jun 08 12:51:13 and can be sued Jun 08 12:51:25 sorry, misread Jun 08 12:51:32 you are right in the example i start Jun 08 12:51:33 ed Jun 08 12:51:55 whohoo Jun 08 12:51:56 lardman, I didn't, it's 3.32 source but the debian folder is from 3.22 so just the deb is versioned wrong Jun 08 12:51:58 but opensource isnt everything :) Jun 08 12:51:59 this channel exists indeed Jun 08 12:52:22 * lcuk is lining himself up to be shot Jun 08 12:52:30 lcuk: lol... propose more examples Jun 08 12:52:34 we can talk through this stuff Jun 08 12:52:37 qwerty12-N800: Yep, but my version of the os wants 3.20, so I thought I should get it to think it's that version? Jun 08 12:52:51 lcuk: no, everyone has the right to choose whichever license they want for code they own. Jun 08 12:52:57 did you read the trolltech page? Jun 08 12:52:59 Hello everyone, i tried to install scratchbox but if i want to use the login script or install maemo-sdk, it fails with message "Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed!" Jun 08 12:53:04 what i am doing wrong? Jun 08 12:53:05 hmm, edit the control file then if you need it reported as lower version Jun 08 12:53:12 i know one thing which means open source isnt all bad: brand recognition is key Jun 08 12:53:33 inherited: http://inz.fi/blog/2008/01/17/scratchbox-on-hardy/ is one bit Jun 08 12:53:38 lcuk: but any open source developer who decides to withhold parts of the code as closed source deserves to have his "open source motives" questioned. Jun 08 12:53:51 inherited: the other is: echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled Jun 08 12:53:59 inherited: Assuming you're running Ubuntu Jun 08 12:54:00 rm_you, when people make patches for your program - are they allowed to release it with your brand name and design assets? Jun 08 12:54:20 the BSD license has a no advertising clause Jun 08 12:54:30 lcuk: The other problem with not releasing code, is that it drives people to replace it Jun 08 12:54:33 http://www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php Jun 08 12:54:35 read the third clause Jun 08 12:54:41 lardman: no, im running archlinux Jun 08 12:54:44 lcuk: out of sheer bloody-mindedness if nothing else Jun 08 12:54:49 "Neither the name of the nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission." Jun 08 12:54:51 lol i know that one lard Jun 08 12:54:56 inherited: Might work for you still, give it a go Jun 08 12:55:02 ok Jun 08 12:55:16 thx Jun 08 12:55:24 inherited: Try the echo one first, as I seem to remember that error message or something similar Jun 08 12:55:33 vdso is kernel thing, not specific to ubuntu Jun 08 12:56:34 veggen, im pondering the future. im not against opening up the entire pathways to getting entire applications working, but specific modules built ontop of this framework may be requested from my employer - who is so anti OSS that I know he would never consider it Jun 08 12:56:36 lardman: wow, great! Jun 08 12:56:52 lardman: it seems to work, but what exactly does this do? Jun 08 12:57:05 lcuk: so give him a commercial license and also release it GPL Jun 08 12:57:11 really not an issue Jun 08 12:57:17 lcuk: so he'll refuse it even if you re-license? Jun 08 12:57:43 lcuk: my advice to you is this one: Find a different job. Jun 08 12:57:49 yes, truly. Jun 08 12:57:49 :) Jun 08 12:58:09 no comment Jun 08 12:58:46 lcuk: branding is the problem mozilla and debian had a while ago Jun 08 12:59:15 not sure whether that's put into legal text in licenses like the gpl Jun 08 12:59:35 inherited: can't remember, try a google search for the fix + scratchbox and you'll probably find someone explain it Jun 08 12:59:43 but that's because defending your brand is something a company can/must do anyway Jun 08 12:59:44 aquatix: the gpl doesn't deal with trademarks and branding, only code. Jun 08 12:59:47 okay, thanks for the fast help ;) Jun 08 12:59:50 lcuk / aquatix: BSD license has a no advertising clause! Jun 08 12:59:52 Veggen: yeah, thought so Jun 08 13:00:05 http://www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php Jun 08 13:00:16 lcuk / aquatix: Neither the name of the nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission. Jun 08 13:00:37 ah, check Jun 08 13:00:41 well that solves that issue :) Jun 08 13:01:00 i said that earlier but no one was listening <_< Jun 08 13:01:07 * rm_you goes and sits in a corner Jun 08 13:01:07 except that bsd isn't viral Jun 08 13:01:22 so you don't enforce a derivation to be OSS too Jun 08 13:01:24 "Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer." Jun 08 13:01:27 i did see rm Jun 08 13:04:13 just because one open source license doesnt quite fit, doesnt mean a good one for you doesnt exist Jun 08 13:04:59 now thats the most sense ive heard today :) Jun 08 13:05:40 well, people often assume that if they don't like the GPL, they have to keep their program closed <_< Jun 08 13:05:52 http://www.opensource.org/licenses/alphabetical Jun 08 13:06:19 thanks rm, i do not enjoy playing it from this side and have been struggling to even see a path through that rests the daytime me with the nighttime me Jun 08 13:07:20 the QT license is actually quite nice for your purposes: http://www.opensource.org/licenses/qtpl.php Jun 08 13:07:45 3b: "When modifications to the Software are released under this license, a non-exclusive royalty-free right is granted to the initial developer of the Software to distribute your modification in future versions of the Software provided such versions remain available under these terms in addition to any other license(s) of the initial developer." Jun 08 13:08:56 you can also just tack on the BSD no advert clause if you want... there's nothing stopping you from saying: "This software is licensed under the QTPL and also the following clause:" Jun 08 13:09:02 inherited: np Jun 08 13:10:10 all good ideas rm Jun 08 13:11:09 ive reading up on this qt license now :) Jun 08 13:12:16 :) Jun 08 13:12:31 make sure to read Trolltech's page too, it explains the philosophy very well Jun 08 13:12:37 and proves that it can work :P Jun 08 13:14:24 i know it can work, but i am afraid to make a mistake which i cannot undo :) such is life Jun 08 13:14:45 if you REALLY need to... talk to a lawyer :/ Jun 08 13:15:04 also, there are IRC channels with people that know a LOT more about this sort of thing Jun 08 13:15:10 try #debian-legal :P Jun 08 13:15:22 lol - ill do an ask-slashdot :D Jun 08 13:16:01 infact, as for opinion thats not such a bad idea, let everyone fight it out :) Jun 08 13:18:55 ok well, I am prolly going to sleep soon Jun 08 13:19:19 thanks for pushing rm Jun 08 13:19:29 I really hope you do the right thing and choose an open source licensing scheme. :P (lol) Jun 08 13:28:53 ~lart debian packaging Jun 08 13:28:53 * infobot readies the nuke launcher and fires some rounds at debian packaging Jun 08 13:42:31 lcuk, watching the demo. well done. Jun 08 13:44:48 will fanoush initfs from 2.2007.50-2 work with 2.2007.51-3 firmware? Jun 08 13:48:07 very insightful. makes me want a kinetic text editor -- i.e. double-tap a line to go into editting mode Jun 08 13:55:22 hrhr: it should Jun 08 13:55:39 but then, there are initfs rebuild and update instructions Jun 08 13:55:46 use these and not these old images Jun 08 13:57:33 Are there any instructions online to set my N800 up to share its bluetoot internet connection via wifi? Jun 08 13:58:00 I'd like some too, to make a BT PAN of my laptop Jun 08 13:58:01 I'd like to get my OLPC XO connected to the 'net through my phone somehow, N800 seems like a good option. Jun 08 13:58:09 uhm? Jun 08 13:58:15 ok Jun 08 13:58:23 you'll just need a few iptables modules Jun 08 13:58:25 Like phone <-> N800 <-> XO Jun 08 13:58:41 and set one sysctl Jun 08 13:58:43 Does the N800 work in AP mode? Jun 08 13:58:48 no Jun 08 13:58:52 no master mode Jun 08 13:58:58 you can use ad-hoc Jun 08 13:59:02 aha Jun 08 13:59:14 what is liqbase anyway? Jun 08 13:59:31 AStorm: Can you point me to some instructions for that? Jun 08 13:59:40 uhm... Jun 08 13:59:51 setting up wifi you already know I hope (done from the UI) Jun 08 14:00:07 Setting it up as ad-hoc? Jun 08 14:00:10 yes Jun 08 14:00:29 That just requires me to set up an ad-hoc connection, right? Jun 08 14:00:31 fysa :) you aren't the only one - coupled with the fact my code and compiler is on the device and having to put up with slow mode editors (not any fault of their own) i really want an ide on there :)( Jun 08 14:00:33 -( Jun 08 14:00:33 it's adding manually networks, yes Jun 08 14:00:41 Right, I can do that. Jun 08 14:00:44 ok Jun 08 14:00:57 then, you need a few iptables modules for 2.6.21-nokia Jun 08 14:01:06 Which ones? Jun 08 14:01:17 obviously, MASQUERADE Jun 08 14:01:23 and ipt_nat Jun 08 14:01:38 lcuk, that would put me over the edge for an N810 Jun 08 14:02:10 i suppose it would have to - in xv ive got no hildon virtual keyboard support ;) Jun 08 14:02:59 shapr: I don't think anyone made these already, you can ask. I could build these too, but later Jun 08 14:02:59 lcuk: you seem to know what liqbase is. What is it? =) Jun 08 14:03:28 shapr: then you set up like a normal Linux router, that is ip_forwarding sysctl and iptables MASQUERADE Jun 08 14:03:48 you get to write the init script for that yourself Jun 08 14:03:51 i should know what it is - ive sweated over it for more hours than i care to count (but its part of relearning c and seeing whether i could do stuff i want to do with a touch device Jun 08 14:04:09 * lcuk sees it as a learning exercise only Jun 08 14:04:22 real apps will come out of it Jun 08 14:04:59 AStorm: Thanks for the info Jun 08 14:05:30 Any rumors whether maemo will handle multi-touch sometime soon? Jun 08 14:05:34 RST38h, in proper terms, its my workround to the RGB rendering limitations in sdl and gtk and normal x - it runs on xv with all graphics and font rendering code written entirely for YUV Jun 08 14:05:43 shapr: no, screen doesn't support it Jun 08 14:07:29 lcuk: is it the next maemopad? =) Jun 08 14:07:30 its limited and (i think) stuck to one app at a time in it and the code is very optimised to what i want to achieve but each day i work on it it gets easier to expand and do more - ive got almost 10 years of code to port back to c where ive thought "if i had a touchscreen i could do xyz" Jun 08 14:08:06 heheh Jun 08 14:08:12 i dunno, i lose the notes i make in maemopad - its difficult for me to find what i want Jun 08 14:08:33 From the video, it looks better than maemopad Jun 08 14:08:50 with this i can see and scroll around my big piece of paper - im currently tagging and grouping everything and letting things evolve Jun 08 14:08:54 + you can probably mix text files and drawings on the same canvas Jun 08 14:09:10 and let user highlight parts of the text files Jun 08 14:09:15 well, funny you should say that :) Jun 08 14:09:15 or even pdfs Jun 08 14:09:36 * RST38h is probably reading lcuk's mind. Sorry. Jun 08 14:09:44 pdfs would need an engine somewhere - i can definately render arbitary text anywhere - as for graphics Jun 08 14:10:04 anyone got a2dp working here? Jun 08 14:10:06 thats another issue at this point, ive just today put the first include in Jun 08 14:10:29 "alsa-lib: pcm_bluetooth.c:1158:(bluetooth_cfg) Error 22 while configuring device" is my problem Jun 08 14:10:48 with newer bluez? Jun 08 14:11:02 no, with old for the time being to get a benchmark Jun 08 14:11:22 lcuk: maybe I should change my code from using plain GtkImage to xv Jun 08 14:11:40 lardman, Ah, hmm, i'm in the process of setting mine up right now Jun 08 14:11:40 YUV isn't a big deal, as far as I'm concerned Jun 08 14:11:46 for now though theres 2 priorities :) clean up the stuff so i can release the text reader so people can get a feel Jun 08 14:12:18 jpeg should be technically ok - internally its YUV anyway so it should also be faster than FILE->YUV->RGB->Screen :) Jun 08 14:13:04 the second is an extension to my no comment above :) Jun 08 14:14:19 does modest work with fetchmail? Jun 08 14:15:40 ack later Jun 08 14:20:38 am going to try a restart to see if that sorts it out Jun 08 14:23:12 cool, that's fixed it Jun 08 14:36:39 ok, new version installed, let's see if it works.... Jun 08 14:37:29 damn, looks like alsa needs to be rebuilt too Jun 08 14:37:57 or it might be an mplayer issue Jun 08 14:38:04 alsa-lib: pcm_bluetooth.c:1521:(audioservice_expect) Bogus message BT_GETCAPABILITIES_REQ received while BT_GETCAPABILITIES_RSP was expected Jun 08 14:42:58 lardman, alsa should be easy, libasound is only thing needed. did you compile 3.32 version of bluez-libs/libbluetooth2? Jun 08 14:46:48 yes Jun 08 14:47:04 I'm wondering if I need to recompile mplayer in fact Jun 08 14:49:00 if you have the time, xmms works too (thanks to our own rm_you ) Jun 08 14:49:28 but will probably suffer from the same problem if they are linked against a different API provided by the BT bit of ALSA Jun 08 14:53:00 wow, mplayer is a big checkout Jun 08 14:53:12 lardman, it may be easier to steal the newer diablo debs. i'm using mplayer 27 (chinook) with bluez .28 and libasound .14 iirc on diablo, i'll let you know how it goes Jun 08 14:53:29 i checked it out many times this morning :/ Jun 08 14:53:45 and is a2dp working for you? Jun 08 14:54:04 i haven't tried yet Jun 08 14:54:27 I'm going to build mplayer and point it at the newer bluez-utils includes, hopefully Jun 08 14:56:23 otoh, perhaps it would be easier to backport my sbc changes to bluez-utils-3.20 and it would then just work for most people Jun 08 14:56:59 * qwerty12_N800 would love that Jun 08 14:58:18 ~curse ndiswrapper and ti Jun 08 14:58:19 how is sound quality with a2dp? Jun 08 14:58:19 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, ndiswrapper and ti ! Jun 08 14:58:45 fysa: no pauses with performance as the governor Jun 08 14:59:57 BTW, at lardman, if you wish to (no pressures), any chance of sharing your SBC work? Jun 08 15:00:31 qwerty12: It's all been shared for ages, in the dsp-sbc garage project Jun 08 15:00:51 The bluez changes? Jun 08 15:01:11 look in dsp-sbc/mk2/arm/ Jun 08 15:01:17 Ah, I see, thanks! Jun 08 15:01:32 that is an altered copy of the sbc dir from bluez-utils Jun 08 15:02:08 the tech in general--usable for day-to-day music? Jun 08 15:02:08 interesting. lardman "< ldesnogu> well we have free DSP tools for OMAP35 since yesterday" Jun 08 15:02:36 compiler? Jun 08 15:02:51 same's true for the omap17xx/2xxx Jun 08 15:03:01 but good to know Jun 08 15:03:03 Ok, I'll checkout and recompile bluez-libs, bluez-utils, libasound & mplayer. Jun 08 15:03:22 * qwerty12 tars up my Uber /etc/bluetooth folder :p Jun 08 15:03:26 qwerty12: you sure; would be great Jun 08 15:03:40 qwerty12: I really can't be bothered any more; could do with sitting down with a beer really :) Jun 08 15:03:43 I've got time :) Jun 08 15:03:49 * qwerty12 gives lardman a beer Jun 08 15:03:53 :) Jun 08 15:04:00 (or I would do if I was old enough to buy :P) Jun 08 15:04:04 backporting to 3.20 means some code changes from the looks of it Jun 08 15:04:10 qwerty12: :p Jun 08 15:05:00 is there some reason to backport to 3.20? Jun 08 15:05:10 Ah, I meant I'd have a go with the 3.32 version. IMHO, it's only worth backporting to 3.28 because the bluez has some better a2dp improvements anyway. Jun 08 15:05:26 ~curse nokia for not having a diablo sdk repo Jun 08 15:05:27 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nokia for not having a diablo sdk repo ! Jun 08 15:05:32 infobot, lame Jun 08 15:05:32 [lame] an LGPL MP3 encoder, #mp3encoder http://lame.sourceforge.net/ see http://www.apt-get.org/ apt-get sites Jun 08 15:05:42 ahaha Jun 08 15:05:52 infobot gets me everytime :( Jun 08 15:05:53 :p Jun 08 15:05:56 johnx: so I don't have to recompile alsa and mplayer basically Jun 08 15:06:28 I'll recompile for you and make packages if qwerty doesn't get to it first Jun 08 15:06:38 johnx, you may as well Jun 08 15:06:45 I'm gonna work on the 3.32 branch Jun 08 15:06:53 http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?s=&showtopic=40888&view=findpost&p=616752 Jun 08 15:07:07 I don't want to downgrade my 3.28 to 3.22 which has worse A2DP anyway. Jun 08 15:07:08 qwerty12, bah...I figured you had already started :P Jun 08 15:07:23 er...me neither Jun 08 15:07:39 I was offering to recompile mplayer and alsa Jun 08 15:07:53 ok, well the code in dsp-sbc/mk2/arm is the patched code from bluez-utils/sbc/ so a drop-in-and-replace job Jun 08 15:08:04 johnx: Are you running diablo? Jun 08 15:08:09 yup Jun 08 15:08:15 ah ok, I'm not Jun 08 15:08:15 johnx, Ah. hmm, you may have to recompile bluez-libs anyway at least Jun 08 15:08:46 lardman, anything I can recompile for you to make your life easier? Jun 08 15:09:48 bluez-utils-3.32 needs to be compiled to get the changes (and that's fair enough), I've also done Bluez-libs-3.32, but when I replaced my current bluez-*-3.20 stuff with those.. Jun 08 15:09:55 mplayer is not overly impressed Jun 08 15:10:23 interesting Jun 08 15:10:27 looks like an api change for the alsa stuff, not sure if alsa need a recompile, but I doubt it as bluez-utils gave me an alsa plugin/lib... Jun 08 15:10:31 mplayer shouldn't care... Jun 08 15:10:36 so probably mplayer needs a recompile Jun 08 15:10:49 As soon as I get my A2DP working, I'll start compiling. Jun 08 15:10:58 ah, the alsa to bluetooth-pcm api? or the alsa api exposed to mplayer? Jun 08 15:11:16 basically I thought I'd backport the sbc stuff from .32 to .20 and then all should be well in the world, perhaps Jun 08 15:11:41 johnx: no idea, one or the other - the error message is in my last post to the list Jun 08 15:12:23 I'll take a look, but my C was never very good, and is now painfully rusty O_o Jun 08 15:12:56 Like yourself? :P Jun 08 15:13:01 Nah, only j/king :P Jun 08 15:13:07 * johnx checks Jun 08 15:13:11 * johnx is not covered in rust Jun 08 15:13:13 :P Jun 08 15:13:16 * aquatix is getting rusty Jun 08 15:13:18 hmmm Jun 08 15:13:24 i just had an afternoon nap Jun 08 15:13:29 mmm, swimming pool Jun 08 15:13:44 sorry, drifted off for a minute there Jun 08 15:13:56 hm, blue seas Jun 08 15:14:06 * lcuk throws lardman a lifevest Jun 08 15:14:14 beer + beach :D Jun 08 15:15:09 johnx: you're missing a key component Jun 08 15:15:16 w33d Jun 08 15:15:16 beer + beach + babes Jun 08 15:15:17 hmm? Jun 08 15:15:28 or what qwerty12 said Jun 08 15:15:48 qwerty12, I've only got the 2 brain cells left...and I need both! Jun 08 15:15:51 johnx, I'm not so sure about this post: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=189189&postcount=136 - These were the instructions for Os2008 Jun 08 15:15:53 lol Jun 08 15:16:05 s/os2008/os2007/ Jun 08 15:16:39 the bot hates you Jun 08 15:16:39 qwerty12, thanks for the heads up Jun 08 15:16:46 I've been away from the forums for a couple days Jun 08 15:17:02 summatusmentis, there are plenty of babes at shonan beach...it's a given :D Jun 08 15:17:14 lol Jun 08 15:17:44 ooh, japanese babes even? Jun 08 15:18:01 aquatix, yes, in fact Jun 08 15:18:25 Antartic babes? Jun 08 15:18:41 qwerty12: whuh? :) Jun 08 15:18:41 notsomuch Jun 08 15:18:52 aww Jun 08 15:19:04 aquatix, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica Jun 08 15:19:07 aquatix, google shonan fujisawa beach for proof :D Jun 08 15:19:25 qwerty12, everyone knows Icelandic babes are better than Antarctic :P Jun 08 15:19:33 qwerty12: http://www.angelfire.com/sports/surfjapan/shonan.html Jun 08 15:20:00 johnx, I'll take your word for it :p Jun 08 15:20:04 aquatix, cool Jun 08 15:20:11 antartic babes are so hot, the sometimes show a bit of nose or fingertip Jun 08 15:20:17 qwerty12: hence my confusion :) Jun 08 15:20:25 lcuk, yeah, briefly, before it freezes off Jun 08 15:21:36 ~lart debian for overwriting patches. Rubbish! Jun 08 15:21:36 * infobot nukes debian with a single large nuke for overwriting patches. Rubbish! Jun 08 15:21:37 yer - could you ever see any of these bikini clad ladies risking losing body parts for you? Jun 08 15:22:38 ooh, Adelie Penguin chicks Jun 08 15:22:46 johnx, I took a look at those two packages sbc-svn and a2dpd and they seem fine to install but the script does wish to install libdbus which I would not recommend on OS2008. Jun 08 15:22:47 qwerty12: there you go, nude chicks Jun 08 15:22:52 Yea baby Jun 08 15:23:06 qwerty12, yeah...I wasn't paying attention...I just posted quickly Jun 08 15:23:14 I'll add a note Jun 08 15:23:46 someone sounded like they wanted to write a nice howto so I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt :/ Jun 08 15:24:09 It's in all honesty, the OS2007 method. Jun 08 15:24:16 just noticed antarctica has domain .aq Jun 08 15:24:19 But I do like the idea of sbc-svn and a2dpd Jun 08 15:24:20 * aquatix wants Jun 08 15:24:27 We don't have those in OS2008, I'll recomple later Jun 08 15:25:00 qwerty12, what does a2dpd do? Jun 08 15:25:06 in the os2008 land I mean? Jun 08 15:25:25 It seems to be another method of providing a2dp, not sure on the details Jun 08 15:25:45 right, it's the older, less optimized method Jun 08 15:25:59 Ah, it's worse, cancel that then, thanks Jun 08 15:26:00 but I'm not even sure it will be able to work with a newer bluez Jun 08 15:28:07 I'd be quite interested to see how it works but I guess that is my curious side. I think lardman is ftw Jun 08 15:28:24 oh definitely Jun 08 15:28:45 this is the single biggest argument I've heard for caring about the dsp at all Jun 08 15:30:21 Hell, I love having a Chinese knockoff headset that does decoding on the headset itself Jun 08 15:30:30 My CPU is brilliant atm Jun 08 15:30:42 qwerty12, on your n800?! Jun 08 15:30:48 yes Jun 08 15:30:53 O_o Jun 08 15:31:07 uhm...I was 90% sure that didn't work Jun 08 15:31:22 Loadapplet is on 1 bar at the bottom Jun 08 15:31:34 Bluez 3.28 is more optimised though for A2dp though Jun 08 15:31:36 what does mplayer say about its output? Jun 08 15:31:53 is it claiming that the headset is actually decoding the audio? Jun 08 15:32:12 Dunno, I can't see anything to that effect Jun 08 15:32:23 If someone is bored they could do some benchmarking of sbcenc using sw vs dsp Jun 08 15:32:33 I got no errors when exiting mplayer too Jun 08 15:32:37 the binaries for the dsp version are on the Garage page Jun 08 15:32:43 woo! Jun 08 15:32:52 * johnx downloads! Jun 08 15:33:30 johnx: you'll want to grab a sw only version from bluez-utils-3.32 to compare against Jun 08 15:33:46 note that there's lots of debug info coming out, so not optimised yet Jun 08 15:35:28 I'm start to compile now. I'll start with bluez-libs/libbluetooth2 (why do debian/nokia insist on changing the names ?!?) Jun 08 15:35:56 consistency in naming: all lib packages start with lib Jun 08 15:36:13 Ah, thanks Jun 08 15:36:18 * qwerty12 hits my self over the head Jun 08 15:36:37 eh...some people don't like it. there are valid arguments on either side Jun 08 15:37:10 It's an obvious thing, I feel stupid for not noticing. But I don't like it, I prefer original names Jun 08 15:37:40 I would settle for a compromise: libbluez Jun 08 15:38:07 but I think the actual lib file made by bluez is like libbluetooth.so.2 Jun 08 15:38:38 lardman, I can't believe I was so stupid and forgot; https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/connectivity/ Jun 08 15:39:08 I'm gonna repatch 3.32 for Nokia standards with their 3.28 release Jun 08 15:39:41 lardman, kerching! https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/connectivity/bluez-libs/tags/bluez-libs-3.32-0maemo1/ Jun 08 15:39:50 ah, good stuff Jun 08 15:40:10 But what is https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/connectivity/bluez-libs-debian/tags/bluez-libs-debian-3.32-0maemo1/ ? Jun 08 15:40:15 but is there still a problem with mplayer/asound? Jun 08 15:40:30 No idea, i'm gonna recompile everything :) Jun 08 15:40:36 :) Jun 08 15:40:39 sounds painful Jun 08 15:41:05 lardman, your sbc code is made for 3.32 right? Jun 08 15:41:31 (I am seriously p***** off for wasting my time "converting" a patch >.< :P) Jun 08 15:42:04 yes Jun 08 15:42:49 Just got a few more stuff to checkout :) Jun 08 15:44:23 Should I checkout mplayer trunk or latest tagged release? Jun 08 15:46:15 wth, I'll go with trunk :) Jun 08 15:46:29 Maybe other optimisations Jun 08 15:46:35 qwerty12, you're going with the maemo-patched mplayer, right? Jun 08 15:46:38 Yes Jun 08 15:46:44 just making sure :) Jun 08 15:46:52 I don't think I'd go far with normal mplayer :P Jun 08 15:47:00 it would probably work Jun 08 15:47:03 just ... slowly Jun 08 15:47:42 I may as well go with trunk, trunk was updated 3wks ago compared to 7wks Jun 08 15:48:23 I need to ask Bundyo for another rc2 release based on trunk or patch :/ Jun 08 15:50:22 Aww, Nokia don't keep libasound in stage :( Jun 08 15:50:56 I'm gonna have to patch it myself. Our tablets run .14 (same in chinook & diablo) but .16 is available Jun 08 15:52:58 re-reading IcoNyx's "howto" which installs an old libdbus... Jun 08 15:53:07 how is that easier than the first post I made in the thread? Jun 08 15:53:28 It's not and in all honesty, all it is for is an old dbus Jun 08 15:53:44 *old media player = kagu Jun 08 15:54:00 and my instructions work with kagu :? Jun 08 15:54:35 anyways, I'll test lardman's sbc in a second and then right up a proper howto and probably do packages Jun 08 15:54:59 I'm gonna do packages too, i'm recomping most of it :) Jun 08 15:55:12 awesome! Jun 08 15:55:17 I'll leave that to you Jun 08 15:55:42 maybe I can find a way to programatically find which paired devices are a2dp headphones Jun 08 15:55:57 Take a look in /var/lib/gconf/system/bluetooth as a start Jun 08 15:56:30 * lardman hopes it works in real time ;) Jun 08 15:56:32 interesting Jun 08 15:57:36 Ok, is it worth it compiling a newer alsa or can I get away with recompiling the same one used in chinook and diablo? Jun 08 15:57:58 same one is preferable I think Jun 08 15:58:04 bug-for-bug compatibility and all that Jun 08 15:58:22 yeah, I don't think anything bluetooth wise was fixed looking at changelgo Jun 08 15:58:25 *changelog Jun 08 16:00:01 Ok, so would I compile alsa first or bluez-libs first? Jun 08 16:00:34 I'm gonna take a guess on alsa so that bluez-libs will recognise the alsa libraries Jun 08 16:00:34 bluez-libs Jun 08 16:00:40 damn Jun 08 16:00:54 just a thought: are we sure libasound needs to be recompiled? Jun 08 16:01:16 alsa stuff hasn't changed...unless I'm confused (known to happen) Jun 08 16:01:52 No idea, I'm just recompiling so that the alsa and newer bluez are in "sync" with each other Jun 08 16:03:01 (thinking out loud) typically bluez-libs would be built *after* alsa IIRC, because bluez-libs depends on alsa, not the other way around Jun 08 16:03:41 if that's the case, then I'm on the right track. I'll do this: alsa , bluez-libs, alsa again. Jun 08 16:03:48 sooo...I would *assume* (heh) that asound doesn't need to be rebuilt Jun 08 16:03:52 heh Jun 08 16:03:55 your choice Jun 08 16:03:58 Can't lose like that :p Jun 08 16:04:02 it should be a fast compile anyways Jun 08 16:04:30 nothing like compiling X on a K6-2 250Mhz Jun 08 16:04:40 lol Jun 08 16:04:42 or gnome 0.0.54 Jun 08 16:04:53 or was it 0.54? Jun 08 16:05:28 * aquatix looks at his binary distribution on a c2d E8400 [3GHz] Jun 08 16:05:30 Alsa just finished now :/ Jun 08 16:05:41 thing is practically picking its nose as fast as possible :) Jun 08 16:05:55 "Why back in my day we had to hand-crank our compilers. and we liked it that way!" Jun 08 16:06:04 :) Jun 08 16:06:10 punch cards ftw Jun 08 16:06:36 now, that was before my time actually :) Jun 08 16:06:46 long before mine too Jun 08 16:06:46 By a year? :p Jun 08 16:06:49 ghehe Jun 08 16:09:33 my mom used punch cards in college Jun 08 16:09:46 so did my mom, I believe Jun 08 16:09:59 my mom could out-program your mom :D Jun 08 16:10:04 your mom goes to college Jun 08 16:10:12 probably, my screwed up loops constantly Jun 08 16:10:21 s/my/my mom/ Jun 08 16:10:22 summatusmentis meant: probably, my mom screwed up loops constantly Jun 08 16:11:06 i could make a very even s/up/in in that sentence, but i won't ;) Jun 08 16:11:12 s/even/evil Jun 08 16:11:17 *sigh* Jun 08 16:11:33 fysa: I was expecting something more along the lines of "I punched your mom's cards" Jun 08 16:11:41 lol Jun 08 16:11:49 aquatix: :-D Jun 08 16:12:05 "I'm in your computer lab, punchin' your cards" ? Jun 08 16:12:16 haha Jun 08 16:12:18 ghehe Jun 08 16:12:24 reminds me Jun 08 16:12:25 urgh :) Jun 08 16:12:29 lardman, does the files in mk2/arm replace the ones in bluez-utils-3.32-0maemo1/sbc? Jun 08 16:12:30 * aquatix clicks up icanhaz... Jun 08 16:12:34 yeah, it hurt to type that Jun 08 16:12:38 qwerty12: yes Jun 08 16:12:43 thanks Jun 08 16:13:08 looks like I might have managed a back-port to 3.20 Jun 08 16:13:16 see if it completes building or not Jun 08 16:13:19 johnx: you didn't even do it right... I'm in ur computer labz, punchin ur cardz Jun 08 16:13:24 nice try though :) Jun 08 16:13:31 http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/06/08/funny-pictures-awesome-ninja-skills-i-has-dem/ Jun 08 16:14:06 oooold Jun 08 16:14:20 mebbe Jun 08 16:14:35 squirrel and not cat? fail! Jun 08 16:15:22 FE FI FO FUM, I WANT MY LOLCAT Jun 08 16:15:50 how did they take a picture of me? http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/06/04/funny-pictures-procrastinators-unite-tomorrow/ Jun 08 16:16:17 I'd love that, pity can't Jun 08 16:17:20 http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/06/03/funny-pictures-ur-software-i-debugged-it/ Jun 08 16:17:28 that one is even smart-ish Jun 08 16:18:22 * johnx got distracted looking up COBOL... Jun 08 16:18:31 nerd :P Jun 08 16:18:34 * aquatix hides Jun 08 16:18:52 yeah...that language looks seriously damaging in the long term Jun 08 16:18:53 Engineering students still have to learn Fortran at some schools Jun 08 16:19:02 johnx: true Jun 08 16:19:08 i only watch the pics Jun 08 16:19:21 LOLCODE ftw Jun 08 16:19:31 qwerty12: haet Jun 08 16:20:01 heh Jun 08 16:20:14 http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/sbc/ might work, might not Jun 08 16:20:29 lardman, your sbc binaries aren't put into the debfile by any chance are they? Jun 08 16:20:38 not sure if my back-porting works correctly - some flags have changed and I didn't look too hard Jun 08 16:20:44 no, sorry Jun 08 16:20:55 no problems, should only take a second to repack :) Jun 08 16:20:57 but there's a tarball in that dir too Jun 08 16:21:10 3.32 compiles fine with your sbc code Jun 08 16:21:13 I've made deb files Jun 08 16:21:14 you also need to add the task to the end of /lib/dsp/dsp_dld.conf Jun 08 16:21:39 I could do with help on that please later Jun 08 16:22:03 well just add the following line: Jun 08 16:22:57 sbcenc_task_sbcenc1/lib/dsp/modules/sbcenc.o/lib/dsp/modules/sbcenc.cmd Jun 08 16:23:15 Thank you, I wouldn't have been able to figure out that one probably :/ Jun 08 16:23:49 well it's pretty obvious when you look in the file, except for the second column as that depends on what I named the internals Jun 08 16:24:03 johnx, btw, thanks for your preinst scripts in your a2dp deb, I used them in carwhisper to replace hcid.conf :) Jun 08 16:24:11 * lardman goes to wash the cars, bbiab Jun 08 16:24:32 http://sachachua.com/wp/2008/05/08/geek-how-to-use-offlineimap-and-the-dovecot-mail-server-to-read-your-gmail-in-emacs-efficiently/ Jun 08 16:24:38 qwerty12, sure, glad it was helpful Jun 08 16:24:55 fysa: somehow, that sounds rather geeky Jun 08 16:25:09 just a little bit, though Jun 08 16:25:12 maybe a good method to sync gmail imap for offline use Jun 08 16:25:15 whoa, written by a gal? Jun 08 16:25:32 neat Jun 08 16:25:41 dovecot+offlineimap Jun 08 16:25:56 'local' imap server Jun 08 16:26:57 hm, offlineimap syncs between two imap servers? Jun 08 16:26:58 interesting Jun 08 16:27:45 Ok, I've got bluez-libs, bluez-utils & alsa-lib (+plugins) compiled. I compiled alsa > bluez-libs > alsa again so that's covered. Now I got to recompile mplayer maemo from trunk Jun 08 16:29:08 qwerty,johnx,etc: all right, check out the latets Aggregator version Jun 08 16:29:14 (http://fms.komkon.org/Maemo) Jun 08 16:29:34 I think it is ripe enough to be announced at itt Jun 08 16:29:39 Brilliant, I love it Jun 08 16:30:04 Although maybe an option to only show the latest version may be nice? Jun 08 16:30:06 That border is still shifting the text. <_< Jun 08 16:30:23 RST38h, it's nice...a sort by version thing would be really nice...and also, less dupes Jun 08 16:31:27 in the list of harder things: a search algorithm that ranked results, so that things with "search term" in the title were higher than things with "search term" in the description Jun 08 16:31:28 sort is already done Jun 08 16:31:39 as to dupes, they come from different repos Jun 08 16:31:47 mpd is duplicated, for example Jun 08 16:31:55 what repos? Jun 08 16:32:11 ah Jun 08 16:32:20 http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/libm/libmpd/libmpd0_0.12.0-1_armel.deb Jun 08 16:32:24 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/chinook/free/libm/libmpd/libmpd0_0.12.0-1_armel.deb Jun 08 16:32:36 i thought it was completely the same Jun 08 16:32:39 not quite so Jun 08 16:32:44 but still :) Jun 08 16:32:53 well, different repos - two entries Jun 08 16:32:57 yeah Jun 08 16:33:03 i didn't look good enough Jun 08 16:33:08 Jun 08 16:33:16 * RST38h has seen this happen yesterday Jun 08 16:33:25 alright...same prob here I guess Jun 08 16:33:28 took a while to figure out that one package comes from repository and another from repostory Jun 08 16:33:37 btw, if you click on the link, the entry collapses again Jun 08 16:33:44 yea, I know =( Jun 08 16:34:03 always fun, those issues... Jun 08 16:34:04 there should be some way to prevent onclick from propagating to parent elements Jun 08 16:34:14 But I still don't know what way Jun 08 16:34:46 lardman|afk, btw, if you catch this message, compiling 770 binaries may be initially pointless as the default mplayer for 770 OS2006 has alsa disabled Jun 08 16:34:48 javascript? Jun 08 16:34:57 yep Jun 08 16:35:04 did you say there was a sort by version already? Jun 08 16:35:09 yes Jun 08 16:35:17 RST38h: in the a's onclick, do "javascript:return true();" Jun 08 16:35:18 ok, nm, I see now Jun 08 16:35:19 does that help? Jun 08 16:35:24 or false Jun 08 16:35:28 I have ORDER BY Name ASC, Version DESC Jun 08 16:35:43 aquatix: lemme try Jun 08 16:37:29 Mplayer is taking ages to compile :( Jun 08 16:38:10 no, does not work Jun 08 16:38:54 return false didn't help either? Jun 08 16:41:01 found it Jun 08 16:43:46 w00t! I've compiled everything, alsa, latest bluez with sbc and latest mplayer from trunk Jun 08 16:43:58 shit, it does not work Jun 08 16:44:01 I'm gonna modify the bluez-utils to set up sbc while I'm at it. Jun 08 16:46:47 Ok, any one know a good place where I can dump deb files Jun 08 16:47:05 qwerty12, how much bandwidth you planning to suck up? Jun 08 16:47:35 I just need to upload the stuff I compiled :) Jun 08 16:47:45 All of it. Jun 08 16:48:08 qwerty12, dcc them to me. I'll put them up on sheeplauncher.net Jun 08 16:48:19 Not the sheep! Jun 08 16:48:28 GeneralAntilles, offering web space? :P Jun 08 16:48:33 No. Jun 08 16:48:34 Hmm, this could take a while, I'll just make an esnips account :) Jun 08 16:48:52 qwerty12, aren't they all less than a meg? Jun 08 16:49:06 Mplayer is 2.2 MB Jun 08 16:49:18 (This is all the bluez and related stuff I compiled) Jun 08 16:50:14 upload bluez first :D Jun 08 16:50:30 I need lardman around too :( Jun 08 16:50:53 * RST38h solved link-closes-on-download problem! Jun 08 16:50:59 General: Here? Jun 08 16:51:17 General: check the Aggregator Jun 08 16:52:44 Ah, much better. Jun 08 16:52:46 motherfucking firefox 3 crashed while upload fucking piece of shit Jun 08 16:52:57 qwerty12, so dcc it :P Jun 08 16:53:05 You really want to go maemo2-4? Jun 08 16:53:12 Do people know what those actually correspond with? Jun 08 16:54:55 RST38h, it seems to be fine from a technical standpoint. Jun 08 16:55:04 My complaints now are all style related. ;) Jun 08 16:55:18 Like the arrow whose highlight rotates with it. :P Jun 08 16:59:36 johnx, uploaded Jun 08 17:00:57 johnx: sheeplauncher.net is showing an account suspended... Jun 08 17:01:03 summatusmentis, O_o Jun 08 17:01:05 thanks Jun 08 17:01:09 sure thing Jun 08 17:01:25 johnx has been naughty and forgot to pay the bills :P Jun 08 17:01:33 FIX IT!!! Jun 08 17:01:43 I think they actually forgot to bill me :/ Jun 08 17:02:00 I had it set to automatically deduct ... and there is money in the account... Jun 08 17:02:15 That's a pretty stupid mistake of theirs >.< Jun 08 17:02:35 yeah...they're "under new management" though Jun 08 17:02:54 I guess they don't want to *take money that I offered to give them* Jun 08 17:03:12 I'll take it, if you need someplace ti giveit away to Jun 08 17:03:33 s/ti giveit/to give it/ Jun 08 17:03:34 summatusmentis meant: I'll take it, if you need someplace to give it away to Jun 08 17:03:43 lol, me me! Jun 08 17:03:48 ahaha Jun 08 17:03:53 it's like $5/month :P Jun 08 17:04:14 I can get chicken wings for £2.50 with chips and coke! Jun 08 17:04:23 and I'd expect web space and 5GB of transfer :P Jun 08 17:05:35 tell you what, you pay me the $5/mo, leave allyour web settings the way they are, and I'll see what I can do about web space... you might not be able to see anything, but your stuff will be on the web Jun 08 17:05:53 it just won't be accessible Jun 08 17:06:48 wow...they didn't even email me to tell me my account was canceled Jun 08 17:06:59 summatusmentis, your plan sounds better and better :P Jun 08 17:07:42 johnx: it's fool proof, I'll even throw in a free gmail account Jun 08 17:08:01 I remeber the invites that used to go on ebay... Jun 08 17:08:05 wow! for just 3 easy payments of $39.99? Jun 08 17:08:09 with _6GB_ of storage! Jun 08 17:08:16 no no, $5/mo Jun 08 17:08:19 Holy crap, sign me up! Jun 08 17:10:01 heh...at least I didn't let them run my DNS too Jun 08 17:10:12 time for a new host anyways Jun 08 17:10:35 Hmm, I need lardman around but are dsp .cmd files generated on the fly? Jun 08 17:11:07 Ah, I see not Jun 08 17:11:09 johnx: who do you host w/? Jun 08 17:11:15 Uploading now... Jun 08 17:11:39 personalsites.org but they were absorbed by someone else who obviously doesn't care enough about my money to just take it Jun 08 17:18:56 GA: the maemo2-4 thing - taken from gronmayer. may change it but it will require manual remapping Jun 08 17:19:06 GA: Arrows - give me better arrow images and I will put them in Jun 08 17:19:11 these are taken from wiki Jun 08 17:19:41 I think I can grab a decent sized one from OS X. If not, I'll just make one. Jun 08 17:19:43 RST38h, is there a reason you're using maemo4 instead of OS2008, for example? Jun 08 17:31:46 johnx: yes, it is the keyword used by gronmayer Jun 08 17:32:05 General: Please do - I need two of these and an InstallNow icon Jun 08 17:32:22 My skills are not good enough to draw 'em and I couldn't find good ones Jun 08 17:32:22 but the actual buttons show "OS2008, OS2007, OS2006"... Jun 08 17:32:31 yea, I know Jun 08 17:32:38 actually, let us see if this can be changed... Jun 08 17:34:11 Jun 08 17:38:19 done Jun 08 17:38:54 re Jun 08 17:39:41 300ms ping sucks btw Jun 08 17:59:38 Well I've tried running mplayer with my recompiled bluez-utils-3.20, and I get an mplayer error Jun 08 18:00:24 what's the error? Jun 08 18:00:31 I'm gonna try my 3.32 :) Jun 08 18:00:56 hang on, I'll do it over ssh so I can copy&paste Jun 08 18:01:41 MPlayer interrupted by signal 11 in module: ao2_init Jun 08 18:01:59 hmm O_o Jun 08 18:02:01 lardman, n00b alert but do the executable files (sbcenc etc) go in /usr/bin or /lib/dsp/modules? Jun 08 18:02:17 executables in /usr/bin Jun 08 18:02:36 Thanks, i'm gonna try all this out now Jun 08 18:04:47 ah, segfault in the 3.20 version of sbcenc, so looks like something went wrong in the backport Jun 08 18:06:57 What's a good e-book reader for the NIT ? :) Jun 08 18:06:57 * johnx sadly can't stay awake any longer Jun 08 18:07:03 m-c, fbreader Jun 08 18:07:10 johnx: thanks! Jun 08 18:07:12 sleep well johnx Jun 08 18:07:28 thanks lardman. And congrats and thanks for the sbc encoder Jun 08 18:07:35 I will take a much closer look when I wake up Jun 08 18:07:42 night johnx :) Jun 08 18:07:52 np, night Jun 08 18:08:07 'night all Jun 08 18:09:29 hmm, curious the segfault Jun 08 18:14:29 lardman, I've got bluez 3.32 and sbc set up so i'll reboot and see how it goes :) Jun 08 18:15:29 Hmm, my build of mplayer wants libopenal 8-) Jun 08 18:15:44 :) Jun 08 18:15:50 I'll have to recompile tommorow :) Jun 08 18:15:58 just going to put the car in the garage, back in a couple of mins Jun 08 18:25:18 lardman, dsp_dld died :/ Jun 08 18:25:34 (standard mplayer from repos and bluez 3.32) Jun 08 18:25:48 Open DSP device error = -1: falling back to SW method Jun 08 18:26:32 uurgh Jun 08 18:26:39 silly me, you have a different dsp kernel Jun 08 18:34:39 9888ijssszsssssscccccv\\\z\\\\||\ vcvvvbvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvcbbbbbbbbbbbnnbbbmmmmnnm,,,,,,,,......................l.ll;pl;[[]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]--00099899887755554333322111``azzdddddfddffffghghjhjkkkll;';/'## Jun 08 18:34:40 # Jun 08 18:34:44 :O oh shit Jun 08 18:34:55 sorry folks.. Jun 08 18:35:00 yeh, i would be like that too :p Jun 08 18:35:07 re oh shit Jun 08 18:35:27 what was that anyway? Jun 08 18:36:03 fell asleep on the keyboard and pressed enter while waking up? Jun 08 18:36:07 cleaning keyboard with a brush Jun 08 18:36:14 almost the same Jun 08 18:36:45 somewhere around i mustv popped this up cos it started on notepad Jun 08 18:36:59 lol Jun 08 18:47:28 Where in the filesystem do apps get install Jun 08 18:47:33 lardman, MPlayer interrupted by signal 11 in module: ao2_init :/ Jun 08 18:48:32 Dekaritae: various places Jun 08 18:48:48 qwerty: I should have said that you don't need to reboot when you replace a module, only when you alter something in the dsp_dld*.conf file (and even then if you run dsp_dld again it will reload the file for you) Jun 08 18:49:01 qwerty12_N800: Same error I had Jun 08 18:49:14 lardman, ah thanks for the info Jun 08 18:49:15 :/ Jun 08 18:49:42 qwerty12_N800: Do you have the sbcenc binary which was in one of my tarballs? Jun 08 18:49:59 I have the one I compiled for 3.32 Jun 08 18:50:08 Trying to find where Pidgin will store sounds Jun 08 18:50:33 cool, try running that - but give me a few min to tell you how - have to go help for a min Jun 08 18:50:48 heh :) Jun 08 18:51:31 look in /usr/share/ Dekaritae Jun 08 18:53:27 Yay. /usr/share/sounds/purple Jun 08 18:53:31 That seems almost logical Jun 08 18:55:42 greetings sirs Jun 08 18:55:57 hola Jun 08 18:56:33 ./sbcenc -s 4 -j sample.au > sample.sbc Jun 08 18:56:43 I'll give you the .au and the correct .sbc Jun 08 18:57:15 ok, thanks Jun 08 18:57:27 both will be in the same url Jun 08 18:57:31 as I gave you Jun 08 18:57:34 ok Jun 08 18:58:32 http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/public_html/nokia770/dsp/sbc Jun 08 18:58:37 all ready to go Jun 08 18:59:13 hopefully you won't get the segfault, I need to look into that - seems to be something to do with using the proper build process (as a guess) Jun 08 18:59:21 supper time, let me know what happens :) Jun 08 18:59:26 ok :) Jun 08 19:01:32 ok, sbcenc died when I ran that command. did you make any updated binaries? Jun 08 19:09:47 having sent my n810 in for repair, i'm wishing I hadn't sold the n800 Jun 08 19:11:39 lardman, (when you get back) ok, looking at the times, i see not. "sbcenc -s 4 -j ~/MyDocs/sample.au" "Segmentation fault (core dumped)", I've got the coredump available. With the diablo sbcenc.o and my bluez 3.32 and sbcenc for 3.32. Jun 08 19:19:11 dick-richardson: they are pretty cheap and really useful - why not buy another? Jun 08 19:20:09 anyone know what width in pixels the display area of the browser is maximised in portrait mode? Jun 08 19:20:10 m-c: I'm looking, actually. just a used POS for around $100 would be really nice, but everything on ebay is days out Jun 08 19:21:42 I'm actually fairly pleased with nokia support...and it appears they actually fix your device rather than just ship off a refurb...unfortunately that means no advanced rma :( Jun 08 19:23:04 ebay has US n800 with 2 hours remaining for (ouch!) $207 Jun 08 19:23:34 and another 2 with 5 hours Jun 08 19:23:43 ~£105 isn't bad :/ Jun 08 19:23:54 but doesnt look like $100 is available Jun 08 19:24:01 acydlord, 480-scrollbar Jun 08 19:24:23 scrollbar pix are dependant on he theme, correct? Jun 08 19:24:34 qwerty12_N800, in the UK. :P Jun 08 19:24:38 qwerty12_N800, i agree with that, £100 does sound reasonable for a second machine Jun 08 19:24:55 In the US, they were under $200 NEW for a while. ;) Jun 08 19:25:26 lcuk, I paid £170 for my n800 about 6/7 months ago :) Jun 08 19:25:35 I paid 89£ on Craiglist for an N800 Jun 08 19:25:46 Well, in CAD Jun 08 19:25:55 GeneralAntilles, show us a link cos google isnt saying new for that price Jun 08 19:26:07 lcuk, it's discontinued. Jun 08 19:26:10 You can't get them new anymore. Jun 08 19:26:16 This was over the past 2-3 months. Jun 08 19:26:19 however i can get "Health Yourself Wobenzym N - 800 Tablets " for $87 :P Jun 08 19:26:35 I got a new N800 back in February for $180 Jun 08 19:27:09 that sounds reasonable Jun 08 19:27:39 lcuk, Hmm, I should get a Polish friend to translate, sounds like viagara :p Jun 08 19:27:41 I have too many gadget Jun 08 19:27:51 qwerty12_N800: thanks for trying that Jun 08 19:28:24 qwerty12_N800: was that the sbcenc from one of the tarballs on my webpage, or the one which you compiled when you compild bluez-utils? Jun 08 19:28:27 £100 for an n800? wow. Jun 08 19:28:41 does that include scratches? Jun 08 19:28:55 lardman, It's one of my binaries when compiling bluez-utils Jun 08 19:29:06 thats ebay prices and from the US, english ebay purchases are about £30 more from what i can see Jun 08 19:29:11 ah ok, could you use the sbcenc from one of my tarballs please? Jun 08 19:29:13 She thought the screen was scratch, was why she was selling cheap Jun 08 19:29:16 The screen protector was scratched up Jun 08 19:29:22 lardman, sure thing Jun 08 19:29:26 qwerty12_N800: e.g. the n800.tar.gz one Jun 08 19:29:50 qwerty12_N800: strange, I compiled the ones in the tarballs with a single gcc command, but the ones compiled as part of the build process segfault Jun 08 19:29:52 Is another N800 on CL still Jun 08 19:29:53 http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/ele/705746572.html Jun 08 19:30:15 qwerty12_N800: the only difference is that I #defined VERSION to get them to compile on a single line Jun 08 19:30:19 i remember that screen protector. evil. evil. Jun 08 19:30:20 qwerty12_N800: bbiab Jun 08 19:30:32 lardman, hmm, bluez-utils compileing with odd cflags Jun 08 19:30:33 k Jun 08 19:30:37 Madman kill 7 in Akihabara! Jun 08 19:30:38 *? Jun 08 19:30:44 KILL, MADMAN, KILL! Jun 08 19:31:01 That's what happens when you don't allow guns. Jun 08 19:31:35 what i am shocked about is some geezer is selling off n810s for $270/£137 Jun 08 19:31:41 There is N770 on CL for £57 Jun 08 19:31:42 *an 810 Jun 08 19:31:43 http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/sys/711275859.html Jun 08 19:31:43 Tomohiro Kato allegedly drove his rented van into a crowd of people, then jumped out stabbing more people, including those he'd already hit with the vehicle. Jun 08 19:32:07 General: You mean, if you don't allow guns it unnecessarily complicates the massacre process? Jun 08 19:32:26 Over here, somebody would've shot him dead. Jun 08 19:32:35 Have to hit 'em with a vehicle, then finish 'em off with a knife - messy Jun 08 19:32:40 but shooting the driver doesnt stop his vehicle :( Jun 08 19:32:49 Prolly not. Having a gun != being ready to use it Jun 08 19:33:04 lardman, still segfaulting Jun 08 19:33:49 Besides, if he had a decent gun, he would not go offing people with his car Jun 08 19:33:51 * lcuk shudders anyway at the thought of senseless violence Jun 08 19:33:57 * RST38h knows he would not Jun 08 19:34:14 lcuk: Who said it was senseless? Jun 08 19:34:27 very rare from what i hear Jun 08 19:34:40 Given what I know of Japanese way of life, the episode makes perfect sense Jun 08 19:35:18 Out here in the midwest almost every household has a gun Jun 08 19:35:48 Maybe that is why I am reading of massacres weekly Jun 08 19:35:57 not out here Jun 08 19:36:02 I have crossbow Jun 08 19:36:04 Quiet US town. White guy with a gun. Jun 08 19:36:24 Too stupid to pull off the killdozer trick. Jun 08 19:36:26 not just white. native american and the 3 blacks that live in town have guns, too Jun 08 19:36:58 Well, half of DC population has guns (which btw are prohibited in DC) Jun 08 19:37:12 DC is a cess pool. Jun 08 19:37:20 yep. and the 1/2 that have them have demonstrated a criminal disposition Jun 08 19:37:21 But these guys do not massacre, they kill for their "reasons" Jun 08 19:37:27 NOT the kind of people you want to have guns :P Jun 08 19:37:42 Law abiding people generally do not carry firearms where it's illegal. ;) Jun 08 19:37:55 Criminals carry them wherever the hell they want. Jun 08 19:38:06 yep Jun 08 19:38:17 Personally, I'd rather have the law abiding folks allowed to carry legally. Jun 08 19:38:19 The Korean chap who did the university thing - did he own his guns legally? Jun 08 19:38:35 low crime rate here. obviously more accidental gun deaths...but as heartless as it sounds it's generally darwinism at work Jun 08 19:39:54 some idiot shoots his friend out hunting and they put him on the news. Some incredibly uneducated moron who has to buy velcro boots...and then everyone in California laughs at the people that live out here :( Jun 08 19:40:10 dick: That will be Dick Cheney Jun 08 19:40:24 exactly Jun 08 19:40:33 A very costly idiot in terms of taxpayer money Jun 08 19:41:13 Besides, handguns are a lot less lethal than knives. Jun 08 19:41:33 Mmm...doubtful Jun 08 19:41:35 generally Jun 08 19:41:52 range vs effectiveness Jun 08 19:42:52 Anyway, I kind of happen to live in places tightly packed with people and I would prefer them NOT to have handguns, legally or not Jun 08 19:42:56 A. You have to hit them, which is no easy task with a handgun, B. If you do hit them, you have to actually hit them where it counts, which is harder still and C. A knife wound is much more dangerous than a 9mm wound. Jun 08 19:43:19 Believe me, it is very easy to hit people in a subway car Jun 08 19:43:26 that's why hunters carry both. guns bring them down, knives finish them off Jun 08 19:43:27 Or on a street here Jun 08 19:43:53 does anyone run rotated xrandr ? Jun 08 19:44:00 lcuk, lots of people. Jun 08 19:44:07 9mm Makarov, as measly as it is, will do just fine (and it has been proven) Jun 08 19:44:11 yer i know - has anyone got it on now.. Jun 08 19:44:24 or enough of a memory about it.. Jun 08 19:44:37 RST38h, 9mm has been known not to penetrate skulls at point-blank range. ;) Jun 08 19:44:46 lcuk, what's the question. :P Jun 08 19:44:52 im wondering whether the tearing direction is still along the widescreen edge or if its also rotated Jun 08 19:45:06 i do enjoy off topic disussions here... open minded discourse Jun 08 19:45:17 It's rotated. Jun 08 19:45:20 General: you do not need to penetrate skulls to wound people Jun 08 19:45:38 ok gen, ta Jun 08 19:45:42 RST38h, and handgun wounds are less fatal than knife wounds. Jun 08 19:45:54 General: In fact a high-powered air gun will do just fine Jun 08 19:46:08 A high-powered airgun wont kill anybody. Jun 08 19:46:15 General: tell that to accidental victims Jun 08 19:46:15 I'm borrowing a friends hacked ipod touch...and to think I was worried I'd like it more than my n810 Jun 08 19:46:19 Unless you get stupidly lucky. Jun 08 19:46:28 General: especially to ones who lost eyes, etc Jun 08 19:46:48 dick-richardson, it's amazes me how some people think the things are so much better than the tablets. Jun 08 19:46:55 The iPhone just manages to piss me off. Jun 08 19:47:06 It's not that I am against you having a gun, just don't want a lot of people with guns around me Jun 08 19:47:14 so does this thing...i'm giving it back Jun 08 19:47:38 RST38h: actually, you probably do...how many murders have occured at NRA conventions? Jun 08 19:47:41 dick-richardson, you really want an exercise in frustration? Try posting to itT. Jun 08 19:47:55 I nearly killed myself trying to do that on my mother's iPhone. Jun 08 19:48:03 dick: dunno. don't want to know. Jun 08 19:48:10 Zero. Jun 08 19:48:15 No, please, do not post on itt Jun 08 19:48:24 Not another iphone thread! Jun 08 19:48:49 RST38h, just because it's from an iTouch, doesn't mean it needs to be iTouch-related. :P Jun 08 19:48:57 lol! they are rather ridiculous...i'll never understand them. "let's go to an ITT forum and brag about the iphone" Jun 08 19:49:04 He could, for instance, post how awesome VGBA is from the iTouch. ;) Jun 08 19:49:15 I am basically fine about every overweight republican-voting, jesus-loving 50+ white amecan having a gun Jun 08 19:49:34 and this covers 99% of NRA Jun 08 19:49:45 RST38h, bullshit Jun 08 19:49:46 HAHA! Jun 08 19:49:53 Have you ever actually talked to an NRA member? Jun 08 19:50:07 The problem is that once you start allowing guns you can't segregate by these arbitrary conditions Jun 08 19:50:16 I agree. Jun 08 19:50:20 General: Dunno, haven't checked Jun 08 19:50:29 RST38h, don't make stupid assumptions then. ;) Jun 08 19:50:47 it just takes a belief that the average person is good Jun 08 19:50:57 Average person is NOT good Jun 08 19:51:08 Well, good enough. ;) Jun 08 19:51:12 I disagree Jun 08 19:51:32 In fact, I can relax your condition and it will still be untrue Jun 08 19:51:58 "It takes a belief that the average person is socially adequate" Jun 08 19:52:02 Probably depends a lot on where you're from and where you grew up. Jun 08 19:52:14 And no, it is not true, especially not in the US Jun 08 19:52:23 that's not relaxed Jun 08 19:52:27 RST38h, have you even been here? Jun 08 19:52:29 Maybe in Japan where they are all raised in uniform conditions Jun 08 19:52:45 General: I lived in US for 10+ ears and expect to return there Jun 08 19:52:51 Besides, the US is a big goddamn place. Jun 08 19:52:54 may I ask what region Jun 08 19:52:56 ? Jun 08 19:53:03 DC/MD/VA area Jun 08 19:53:08 not to disparage it, but...DC? Jun 08 19:53:11 Haha Jun 08 19:53:15 DC is a shithole Jun 08 19:53:17 damn Jun 08 19:53:21 Exactly Jun 08 19:53:32 And Baltimore isn't much better really Jun 08 19:53:33 Okay, let's see who comes up with the Google Streetview link first. Jun 08 19:53:40 Don't extrapolate experience in that area to the rest of the country. ;) Jun 08 19:53:52 yes, please Jun 08 19:54:09 DC is a shithole, Baltimore is a shithole. Jun 08 19:54:10 General: You mean, in other states you can expect every person to be socially adequate? Jun 08 19:54:23 not every ... most Jun 08 19:54:26 DC and Baltimore are well bellow the norm. Jun 08 19:54:30 over 1/2 Jun 08 19:54:36 DC especially. Jun 08 19:54:51 As it's filled to the brim with ever sort of criminal imaginable. Jun 08 19:54:52 They are just fucked up in a certain way Jun 08 19:55:00 DC? Jun 08 19:55:21 Well, I guess you have somewhat pessimistic picture of DC Jun 08 19:55:24 take my midwest example Jun 08 19:55:31 we have idiots and criminals Jun 08 19:55:42 It is a shithole, just not that deep Jun 08 19:55:57 It's the capital where all the politicians live Jun 08 19:55:58 There are four quarters too Jun 08 19:56:00 but they are the exceptioni Jun 08 19:56:02 it's the deepest of the deep. Jun 08 19:56:06 Politicians live in the west Jun 08 19:56:07 Well, work. Jun 08 19:56:17 Our black friends live in the east Jun 08 19:56:32 Drug dealers basically live in NE and work in SE Jun 08 19:56:37 The east is fine...DC is pretty...er...tough Jun 08 19:57:35 Midwest? Populated by people who REALLY think that horned, hooved, red-skinned Satan exists and he is out to get them? Jun 08 19:57:41 And you want to give them guns? Jun 08 19:58:25 there's a different can of worms...but I will say that those people are generally socially responsible Jun 08 19:58:36 which is the main criteria in our gun example Jun 08 19:59:10 Responsible, unless you try to date their daughters? =) Jun 08 19:59:33 well, er... Jun 08 19:59:38 got nothin Jun 08 19:59:41 Ah, stereotypes. Jun 08 20:00:06 Sure, this whole discussion so far was about them, no? Jun 08 20:00:16 (And I was kidding anyway) Jun 08 20:00:27 I was with ya...thought it was funny Jun 08 20:01:27 I love the midwest stereotypes...just always confused about how they got confused with the west virginian stereotypes Jun 08 20:01:34 dick: They are socially responsible until somebody makes them think you are the Satan Jun 08 20:01:55 well, west virginians is all I have as a reference Jun 08 20:01:56 they're not that stupid Jun 08 20:02:06 again *generally Jun 08 20:02:22 only takes a few, with automatic weapons Jun 08 20:02:45 they don't get far surrounded by good people with automatic weapons Jun 08 20:02:54 saves us money on a trial, too Jun 08 20:03:00 I kinda doubt it Jun 08 20:03:13 vtech was a 'gun free zone' Jun 08 20:03:22 there wasn't a single us massacre prevented by "good people with automatic weapons" Jun 08 20:03:41 because good people aren't allowed to have automatic weapons Jun 08 20:03:48 oh Jun 08 20:03:49 ^ Jun 08 20:04:08 dick, bad people are? Jun 08 20:04:14 A helluva lot of bad people are Jun 08 20:04:23 A large number of them in the BATF Jun 08 20:04:28 hehe Jun 08 20:04:34 zing Jun 08 20:04:57 inz: of course not...but criminals aren't worried about breaking the law Jun 08 20:05:02 * RST38h would like to avoid getting between these good and bad people Jun 08 20:05:21 RST38h: get a farm Jun 08 20:05:31 qwerty12_N800: Oh. Thanks. Strange Jun 08 20:05:50 dick: sheeep? noooo Jun 08 20:06:03 just need a solid pair of velcro gloves Jun 08 20:06:19 "honest officer, I was trying to help it through the fence" Jun 08 20:06:21 I'm not in any position to judge the effectiveness of this "Right for arms", but I do wonder why it comes up as a basic right quite often, even when lots of countries do fine without it. Jun 08 20:06:27 * RST38h will not ask what for Jun 08 20:06:37 lardman, my bluez may be messed up, connecting the headset in the low quality mono mode crashes hcid >.< Jun 08 20:06:47 to avoid reinforcing his stereotypes about midwest Jun 08 20:06:56 Blafasel: like the swiss? Jun 08 20:07:05 YAY, crashing Jun 08 20:07:19 RST38h: yeah, sorry :( Jun 08 20:07:26 dick-richardson: Yeah. Answering my question with a bad example doesn't help ;) Jun 08 20:07:35 Because the right to protect yourself is a basic human right. Jun 08 20:07:54 how so? Jun 08 20:08:04 dick-richardson: Actually I worked there for quite some time. I'm not sure if they are allowed to carry weapons. They do take their (automatic) rifle home during military service, though Jun 08 20:08:06 General: Currently, do you have a right to protect yourself against a police officer? Jun 08 20:08:17 qwerty12_N800: perhaps, but the standalone sbcenc should work fine Jun 08 20:08:24 Blafasel: I know...I've been there. crime was is quite low Jun 08 20:08:41 qwerty12_N800: it doesn't use anything outside except for the sbcenc.o dsp task Jun 08 20:08:44 RST38h: no...you have an obligation to do so Jun 08 20:08:51 dick-richardson: I'd bet that this is unrelated to the military rifles, but I cannot back that up. Jun 08 20:09:43 dick: Well, whatever your obligation is, the law basically says that you have to comply with whatever officer says Jun 08 20:09:43 RST38h, cool, you have an A+B touch screen area Jun 08 20:09:48 Navi: yep Jun 08 20:09:53 Now we just need it for NES :3 Jun 08 20:09:59 Blafasel: I thought that they had a proportionally higher firearms suicide rate due to that reason Jun 08 20:10:01 NES has it Jun 08 20:10:05 latest revision Jun 08 20:10:13 Has it been released? Jun 08 20:10:17 yep Jun 08 20:10:20 Oh Jun 08 20:10:20 check Extras Jun 08 20:10:21 GA: Protecting oneself is a basic right and that's the same in every (civilized for this special definition of it) country. Some allow guns, some don't - but I still can kill someone with a knife in self-defense here. Jun 08 20:10:39 lardman: Actually I think I remember something like that as well, yes. Jun 08 20:10:46 Blafasel: And you are still fucked if you try to protect yourself against a police officer Jun 08 20:10:59 lardman: But switzerland allows euthanasie (what do you call it in english) anyway Jun 08 20:11:06 Even if he is not compliant or borderly compliant with the law Jun 08 20:11:10 I only know some martial arts for unarmed combat :( Jun 08 20:11:10 you don't have to do anything an officer says...that equals slavery. An officer cannot ask you to stop breathing, for example Jun 08 20:11:15 lardman, hmm, I disabled sbcenc to test if sbcenc was messing up hcid, & sbcenc says "Open DSP device error = -1: falling back to SW method" but it segfaults and dies *straight* after that Jun 08 20:11:38 or to come over and wash his clothes Jun 08 20:11:42 dick: He can, although a court may later punish him for that Jun 08 20:11:44 Blafasel, but can your grandmother protect herself with a knife? Jun 08 20:11:48 Won't make any difference to you though Jun 08 20:11:50 Blafasel: But no car crime :) not sure if it's related to the chaps wandering about in fatigues with a duffel bag & automatic weapon waiting to go on their 2 week exercises though ;) Jun 08 20:12:01 The nice thing about guns is that they're the great equalizer. Pretty much anybody can use them. Jun 08 20:12:05 RST38h: so then, are you to oblige? Jun 08 20:12:20 dick: well, if you do not, he may force you to do so Jun 08 20:12:32 qwerty12_N800: yeah, the DSP isn't causing the problem, it's something on the ARM side Jun 08 20:12:47 General: yea...make it usable by any idiot and only idiots will Jun 08 20:12:57 qwerty12_N800: I get something similar, and when run through mplayer I can see in dmesg that the DSP has started up and immediately been shut down Jun 08 20:12:57 lardman, brb, need to reboot, my n800 doesn't like reloading dsp_dld >.< Jun 08 20:12:59 General: which is pretty much what we observe in the US news Jun 08 20:13:04 qwerty12_N800: k Jun 08 20:13:26 General: Equalizing one's angst with that of people around him Jun 08 20:13:40 RST38h, I have 3.6 and the check for updates dealie doesn't show it as an update Jun 08 20:14:07 Navi: Download .deb from here: http://fms.komkon.org/iNES/ Jun 08 20:14:12 GA: I have problems if "GrandMas" (again, stereotypes) are allowed to keep their driving license. Let's not start talking about guns here.. Jun 08 20:14:25 Blafasel: and blondes too! Jun 08 20:14:33 Don't forget the blondes Jun 08 20:14:35 lol Jun 08 20:14:59 pupnik, did you ever read Unintended Consequences? Jun 08 20:15:23 and that's a problem with US stereotypes. What skin color are we? What are our beliefs? We're all angry? Jun 08 20:15:43 Which news stations are you watching? Not mine, obviously Jun 08 20:15:44 Actually my comment was more pointed at at the sexless eldery stereotype, not grandmas as 'old women' Jun 08 20:16:34 More gun crime in the US than over here; Guns are bad QED? ;) Jun 08 20:16:51 Um no Jun 08 20:16:53 that's probably already been covered, if so just ignore me Jun 08 20:17:00 lol, lardman. <_< Jun 08 20:17:05 you have to take it state by state Jun 08 20:17:18 median level then? Jun 08 20:17:33 because gun crime is (obviously) statistically higher where guns are outlawed Jun 08 20:17:42 I'm hoping that was a joke, anyway. Jun 08 20:17:52 how does that work? Jun 08 20:18:32 crimes with guns / total crimes * 100 = percentage of crimes with guns Jun 08 20:18:47 exactly Jun 08 20:18:51 Not a meaningful statistic. Jun 08 20:18:53 that's what I was thinking anyway Jun 08 20:18:54 RST38h, nope Jun 08 20:19:02 more laws outlawing guns = more gun crimes Jun 08 20:19:08 any legal use of a gun is not considered gun crime even though there are more gun toting cowboys around Jun 08 20:19:13 Mega Man releases his charge shot when he jumps Jun 08 20:19:24 Look at your crimes with knives and blunt objects. Especially petty crime over in the UK. :P Jun 08 20:19:33 as well as, as I've said, when guns are outlawed only criminals have them Jun 08 20:19:38 dick-richardson: we ban guns, we have less gun crime Jun 08 20:19:45 You have more petty crime Jun 08 20:19:49 Navi: download and install deb from there Jun 08 20:19:52 and more violent crime with other weapons. Jun 08 20:19:55 lardman: yes, because you have much tighter control over supply Jun 08 20:19:56 RST38h, did Jun 08 20:19:59 The result is a net negative effect. Jun 08 20:20:05 and Mega Man release his charge shot when he jumps Jun 08 20:20:05 Navi: does A+B area show up in the cues? Jun 08 20:20:09 No Jun 08 20:20:16 dick-richardson: well that'm my point, a gun is inherently dangerous Jun 08 20:20:23 It helps when you're an island Jun 08 20:20:24 General: UK is a special case Jun 08 20:20:29 lardman: a gun is a tool, nothing more Jun 08 20:20:31 and not huge and sharing lots of borders. Jun 08 20:20:42 i would prefer to have less overall crime, but also if i am gonna be mugged i'd rather be whacked on the head with a bat or knived a bit than be shot Jun 08 20:20:45 General: they just like knive fights Jun 08 20:20:47 lardman: unless you'll agree that knives are inherently dangerous Jun 08 20:20:59 lcuk, you're more likely to die from a knife wound than a handgun wound. Jun 08 20:20:59 dick-richardson: but less so Jun 08 20:21:08 General: same as Russians like sticking each other with kitchen knives after a night of drinking Jun 08 20:21:14 RST38h, blame it on the football? :D Jun 08 20:21:21 RST38h, i read that one Jun 08 20:21:40 You Russians are crazy :p Jun 08 20:21:41 General: No idea, although they ARE NOT fighting each other with footballs Jun 08 20:21:49 * lcuk thinks the whole topic is disgusting anyway Jun 08 20:22:08 qwerty: it is not endemic to Russians. Finns like the same thing afaik Jun 08 20:22:11 lcuk, it's a gut-level emotional reaction that carries little logic. ;) Jun 08 20:22:22 qwerty: Must be the weather or something Jun 08 20:22:39 The question really is what is the per-capita murder rate Jun 08 20:22:44 lardman: anyway, I didn't make that statistic up: http://www.soros.org/initiatives/justice/articles_publications/publications/gun_report_20000401 Jun 08 20:22:45 drunk more likely Jun 08 20:22:51 RST38h, heh, I quite like it Jun 08 20:22:52 RST38h, it doesn't have the A+B area in the cues Jun 08 20:22:56 Navi: Then I may need to release a new version Jun 08 20:23:02 Mmk Jun 08 20:23:08 Woo, new version Jun 08 20:23:34 Anyway, moving away from guns Jun 08 20:23:49 qwerty12_N800: I'll try to track down what's causing the segfault tomorrow Jun 08 20:23:51 If you move away from guns, I'll shoot you. Jun 08 20:23:58 lardman, cool Jun 08 20:24:00 qwerty12_N800: Sorry you can't play with it today :( Jun 08 20:24:15 lardman, don't be :) Jun 08 20:24:22 Navi: That's ok, I've got a knife somewhere here ;) Jun 08 20:25:56 dsp_dld is odd on diablo. running it again says "Can't open /lib/dsp/dsp_dld.conf" so I move dsp_dld_avs.conf to dsp_dld.conf and I get "EXMAP failed" & "error in loading .mem!!" + no sound on reboot Jun 08 20:26:58 qwerty12_N800: look inside /etc/init.d/dsp-init, you can give a parameter to dsp_dld so it looks for the conf file in a certain place. Jun 08 20:27:26 pH5, Thanks, looking now Jun 08 20:27:52 I won't modify it but it shall be useful to know so I can reaload it, Jun 08 20:30:00 since we have been flying wayyyyyy offtopic tonight, anyone understand this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7442644.stm i thought safe deposit boxes were...safe? Jun 08 20:30:47 qwerty12_N800: symlink the two Jun 08 20:31:13 qwerty12_N800: leave the original and symlink to the one it expects if not given an arg Jun 08 20:31:25 lardman|hiding, come out of hiding have we? but I've already done that Jun 08 20:31:47 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZw1lCPVbtY Jun 08 20:33:32 https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Fast_Server <_< Jun 08 20:40:39 lcuk: need a court order to search them Jun 08 20:40:52 ALL of them? Jun 08 20:41:04 lcuk: but once "proper formalities" are observed, no problem searching them Jun 08 20:41:06 i understand the need to search specific ones Jun 08 20:41:16 lcuk: well, it depends on what judge has allowed Jun 08 20:41:26 but they closed the entire centre and are just seaqrching the job lot Jun 08 20:41:29 maybe they only searched a few Jun 08 20:41:29 known ones Jun 08 20:42:05 actually 3 deposit centres Jun 08 20:42:36 somehow this does not surprise me Jun 08 20:42:38 if it was only specifics, then it wouldnt be news Jun 08 20:43:03 This is much funnier though: Weak US Dollar Means Nintendo Favors Europe For Now Jun 08 20:45:07 That's why we need teh new iNES emu :DDD Jun 08 20:45:51 speak for yourself :P euro Wii is amazing Jun 08 20:45:59 although we still cant get wii fit Jun 08 20:46:06 hah Jun 08 20:46:13 Wii Fit is all over the place here Jun 08 20:46:16 no one buys it Jun 08 20:46:17 get it chipped Jun 08 20:46:29 * qwerty12_N800 walks away whistling Jun 08 20:46:40 It is interesting how large electronics companies (Apple, Nintendo) started using the scarcity scheme Jun 08 20:46:53 get what chipped? the wii - nooo we have had this for ages (got it when they first went on sale) Jun 08 20:46:54 It's fun Jun 08 20:47:28 RST38h: The best slashdot comment on that was something like "I expected to read 'Weak US Dollar Means Nintentdo FavoUrs Europe For Now'" ;-) Jun 08 20:47:35 lcuk, yeh the wii, heh my friend needs to replace his chip Jun 08 20:47:44 Blafasel: ;))) Jun 08 20:47:59 his keeps starting up in Japanese Jun 08 20:48:04 Blafasel: in aluminIum casing! Jun 08 20:48:14 Pfft, don't support the drive mods :/ Jun 08 20:48:36 RST38h: Hey, that's the right german spelling as well. *hides* Jun 08 20:50:08 Blafasel: I have found late in my life that the american spelling is aluminum Jun 08 20:50:56 RST38h: Yep. I didn't know that for ages as well. The former is correct here and I didn't even know that there's a different spelling anywhere Jun 08 20:51:08 I just got that. 0.0 Jun 08 20:53:15 Woo aluminum! Jun 08 20:53:56 Just think of all the money saved on replacement keyboards and time in the aluminum industry not having to type those extra characters. :P Jun 08 20:54:11 woo Jun 08 20:58:32 GA: Not to mention the U key Jun 08 21:02:35 it should be possible to use my 810 as a wireless speaker shouldnt it? ie play movies on big pc, but transmit audio to the nokia so that we dont have to have it mega loud (its on other sideo f the room) Jun 08 21:03:08 if you are playing the movie on a linux pc, yes Jun 08 21:03:33 ummm, slight problem with that.. Jun 08 21:03:34 Shoutcast/icecast2 on PC, stream over network Jun 08 21:03:57 eh Jun 08 21:03:57 wicked :) thought it might be possible. ill look deeper tomorrow Jun 08 21:04:14 the sound's not going to be synced with the video Jun 08 21:04:28 if you do shoutcast/icecast2 Jun 08 21:04:47 alter sync in mediaplayerclassic Jun 08 21:04:53 that would be ok Jun 08 21:05:38 thanks, back later Jun 08 21:05:55 MPC can output audio to custom sound device via DirectShow Jun 08 21:06:21 mpc or mpd? Jun 08 21:06:26 MPC Jun 08 21:06:31 media player classic Jun 08 21:06:36 ah Jun 08 21:06:51 I was thinking of music player client Jun 08 21:07:43 http://skattertech.com/media/2007/03/motorola-bluetooth-active-h9.jpg Jun 08 21:07:44 Wants Jun 08 21:08:13 * qwerty12_N800 will pass Jun 08 21:08:45 pass gas Jun 08 21:10:40 * RST38h has got a pair already Jun 08 21:52:20 War Jun 08 21:52:23 k. Jun 08 21:53:01 Dekaritae: we all love some wargames ;-) Jun 08 21:53:22 "lets play 'Thermo-nuclear war', professor" Jun 08 21:55:57 Going out a fishing shoppe to find N800 case Jun 08 22:10:31 GeneralAntilles: no i did not read it - author =? Jun 08 22:10:48 John Ross Jun 08 22:10:51 there exists cron for maemo? Jun 08 22:11:03 I dunno if you'll be able to find a copy, but it's definitely worth picking up. Jun 08 22:13:12 jldias dunno Jun 08 22:15:14 no time, will skim reviews tho ty Jun 08 22:26:52 need some help with booting debian from an sd card.. I have the boot menu but when I select external sd card or internal sd card it fails.. I think the problem is the bootmenu.sh script is wrong (using p2 instead of p1 as the device name).. I would love to just change it but it doesn't seem to let me and I'm thinking that is because it's a flashed file system.. I remounted it as rw but it says no space left on device if I try to rem Jun 08 22:28:15 hmm I wonder if I have to edit bootmenu.sh from the init_flash directory and reflash it again Jun 08 22:28:29 bootmenu.conf.n8x0.example Jun 08 22:28:35 Fix it, rename it bootmenu.conf Jun 08 22:30:30 wolfspirit, also, read the readme. :\ Jun 08 22:32:24 didn't even think about the readme.. been following all of the wiki articles and forums etc. Jun 08 22:33:03 so you have to reflash after you do that? Jun 08 22:33:32 Just run the initfs flash again. Jun 08 22:35:30 sweet got it Jun 08 22:35:54 thanks.. I thought it was something like that (pointing to the wrong device) just didn't know how to remedy it Jun 08 22:36:49 crap.. it didn't like the fs though.. possibly corrupt Jun 08 22:41:28 jldiaz, alarmd -- I haven't found a cron for chinook yet. busybox has a cron module (and wget module, among others) that can be compiled i Jun 08 22:41:29 in Jun 08 22:41:29 isn't there a way to connect to the console using the usb cable? Jun 08 22:42:11 wolfspirit, if you've got bootmenu installed, then just boot it into usbnet Jun 08 22:42:29 well if he screwed initfs.. Jun 08 22:42:46 Then all he's got to do is flash it. Jun 08 22:42:53 and a usb console would be pointless. Jun 08 22:42:57 right Jun 08 22:43:31 no initfs isn't screwed Jun 08 22:43:46 debian starts to load but then chokes on the filesystem.. might be a corruption Jun 08 22:44:02 wolfspirit, does it complain? Jun 08 22:44:13 It complained for me, too, but I just plugged in a USB keyboard and fixed it. Jun 08 22:44:23 You'll need an OTG adaptor, though. Jun 08 22:44:24 yeah wants me to hit ctl d for maintenance mode.. obviously I can't do that Jun 08 22:46:20 it says /lib/init/rw/rootdev unexpected inconsistency found Jun 08 22:48:08 offlineimap installs fine Jun 08 22:48:16 configuring now for gmail Jun 08 23:06:45 GeneralAntilles: GeneralAntilles Jun 08 23:08:40 Recursion Jun 08 23:10:52 rm_you: rm_you, rm_you. Jun 08 23:12:48 'summon creature i' Jun 08 23:14:52 rm_you: rm_you, rm_you. Jun 08 23:17:25 is there anyone using their NITs as an extension of a development machine? Jun 08 23:17:45 lcuk develops on nit Jun 08 23:18:15 summatusmentis, khertan. Jun 08 23:19:06 I'm trying to figure out a way to use my NIT as a machine i can carry with me, and leave my laptop at home, to work on Summer of Code Jun 08 23:19:35 install software, get a keyboard and you are set Jun 08 23:20:01 GeneralAntilles: looking better.. I was able to get into XFCE.. but I had to load back into the flash device to run fsck on my external sd card because windows xp wouldn't see the usb networking device.. tried adding that nokia inf file but when I went to add it, it was blank in windows.. anyways.. got past that part.. Jun 08 23:21:12 KotCzarny: any idea if things like cscope/stgit/git are available? Jun 08 23:21:19 probably Jun 08 23:21:53 just google 'needed_app maemo' Jun 08 23:22:18 you can try enabling extras and redpill mode too Jun 08 23:22:27 then just trying to apt-get it Jun 08 23:23:54 redpill mode? Jun 08 23:24:02 yup Jun 08 23:24:19 well, redpill mode is if you don't want to use apt-get Jun 08 23:24:36 if you can use apt-get you don't need it i guess Jun 08 23:25:33 for example, assuming you want to install gcc Jun 08 23:25:52 what is redpill mode? I've never heard of it Jun 08 23:25:53 with app manager you would have to enable extras repository and redpill mode Jun 08 23:26:09 it's just a switch that hides some of the packages in app manager Jun 08 23:26:27 summatusmentis, you don't need red pill, you can just apt-get stuff from xterm. Jun 08 23:26:35 then you will see gcc in app man Jun 08 23:26:47 i dont think i've opened the app manager since 2007 <_< Jun 08 23:26:50 GeneralAntilles: yeah, I can do that Jun 08 23:26:52 but if you know how to use apt-get then you don't need it at all Jun 08 23:27:18 can the NIT teach me how to understand kernel code better? :) Jun 08 23:27:28 Red Pill lets you see stuff outside of User/, enables some extra settings (like the ability to turn off mmc2 caching), and disables some "safety" features. Jun 08 23:27:29 yes, with google Jun 08 23:27:31 :) Jun 08 23:27:46 or if you download some docs and read it using some reader Jun 08 23:27:49 rm_you, it's much better in Diablo. Jun 08 23:27:53 What did you want, anyway? Jun 08 23:27:58 KotCzarny: lol oh Jun 08 23:28:01 just saying hi :P Jun 08 23:28:11 hi rm_you :) Jun 08 23:28:14 grr whats the command to get my nick back Jun 08 23:28:29 /msg nickserv ghost rm_you Jun 08 23:28:38 sweet Jun 08 23:28:45 /msg nickserv help :P Jun 08 23:29:03 yeah i was already midway through the ghost command when you said it Jun 08 23:29:09 it came up from my subconscious or something Jun 08 23:30:57 Mind link. :P Jun 08 23:31:40 You check the Garage? Jun 08 23:39:40 w00t, 3 days and 1000 views :D Jun 08 23:40:01 feeling popular? Jun 08 23:40:04 :P Jun 08 23:40:13 you feeling open-sourcey? Jun 08 23:40:21 GeneralAntilles: checking now Jun 08 23:40:22 shareware it! Jun 08 23:40:23 :> Jun 08 23:40:34 * rm_you murders KotCzarny with a dull garden rake Jun 08 23:40:39 * KotCzarny ducks Jun 08 23:40:44 ~lart KotCzarny for being a shareware whore Jun 08 23:40:44 * infobot strangles KotCzarny with a doohicky mouse cord for being a shareware whore Jun 08 23:40:46 technically i can do both :P Jun 08 23:41:06 how much does it cost to ship a cd with source code nowadays? ;) Jun 08 23:41:06 open source shareware? Jun 08 23:41:09 that's new Jun 08 23:41:10 :) Jun 08 23:41:24 lcuk: cd cost + postage Jun 08 23:41:33 i have to make it available :) at this junction i dont have a webserver :P Jun 08 23:41:35 overseas it's ~10$ Jun 08 23:41:47 lcuk: I can host for you Jun 08 23:41:49 nahhh, ive already decided Jun 08 23:42:28 alternatively, garage Jun 08 23:42:34 ive spent the day looking through and trying to sanitize it a bit and cull the cruft so i can split out actual final applications with a purpose :) Jun 08 23:43:01 text only reader and flying notes :) Jun 08 23:43:10 :) Jun 08 23:43:20 but ive gotta find some way to create a library because i will not alter source twice Jun 08 23:43:22 yeah, do one thing, but do it perfect Jun 08 23:43:45 yer - like i said when i started talkin to you kot, this is my testing ground Jun 08 23:43:53 * KotCzarny nods Jun 08 23:43:58 ive needed time to become comfortable with what i am coding and how to do stuff Jun 08 23:44:32 and now i am certainly past the first stage and now have lots of actual things to be coding using the library Jun 08 23:45:05 i keep sketching a time line i want to code. its been in my notebooks over the years but now i keep going back past it Jun 08 23:45:10 * KotCzarny devours a cherry Jun 08 23:48:58 ftp up btw :) Jun 08 23:49:37 you will be pleasantly surprised i think :) its even smoother than the youtube vid Jun 08 23:51:10 :) Jun 08 23:51:16 how so? Jun 08 23:52:28 lcuk: ah? Jun 08 23:52:30 binaries? Jun 08 23:52:31 you've come across the niggly problem with drawing (on every app ive tried) and 2 strokes merge together leaving an ugly line across from the end of your last stroke.. Jun 08 23:52:32 source? Jun 08 23:52:51 rm, full source Jun 08 23:52:56 and binaries Jun 08 23:53:11 lcuk, yeah, use incremental drawing to actually see what is really happening Jun 08 23:53:14 lcuk: note that I had the same misgiving about releasing my source (I wanted it to be perfect) but i decided it mattered more to be open, and people would see my mistakes but then fix them :) Jun 08 23:53:20 and i havent gotten made fun of too much :P Jun 08 23:53:24 there has been since day one. there is an understanding that since the license is not sorted it stays between us :) Jun 08 23:53:25 lcuk: where? Jun 08 23:54:29 on 2 computers around the world :) believe me, i have no problem with open source, i just do not know which final license to use. you have given me a couple of really interesting options and i will look carefully at them both and others before i release anything publically Jun 08 23:54:40 ah ok.,.. Jun 08 23:54:54 you have full source and binaries available... just not to me :( Jun 08 23:54:55 * rm_you kries Jun 08 23:55:01 * GeneralAntilles bitches. Jun 08 23:55:08 * rm_you nags Jun 08 23:55:14 * KotCzarny grins Jun 08 23:55:30 I wonder if there's a recommended method for doing a timeline in Mediawiki. . . . Jun 08 23:55:33 why are you nagging about alpha code Jun 08 23:55:45 kot, you've packaged things in the past haven't you? Jun 08 23:55:48 he doesn't run out of ideas yet Jun 08 23:55:49 :) Jun 08 23:55:50 Release early, release often. Jun 08 23:56:06 lcuk: nope, but we can snatch some debian control files Jun 08 23:56:07 I release alpha code Jun 08 23:56:16 lcuk, hrw offered to package for you. Jun 08 23:56:19 i release pre-alpha code >_< Jun 08 23:56:34 hrw should help *me* package Jun 08 23:56:39 :> Jun 08 23:56:41 i think my debian folder is fscked Jun 08 23:56:52 and i need to create a seperate package for themes Jun 09 00:14:15 GeneralAntilles, i know but kot also knows enough about my code to be able to maybe look closer quicker :) Jun 09 00:14:41 its just a thought anyway :P Jun 09 00:49:51 ehh.. debian on my n800 was kind of annoying in my opinion.. it would be nice to have access to all of those apps but man.. it ran very slowly and the touch screen was very unresponsive Jun 09 00:50:28 ram issue then Jun 09 00:51:21 or you could disable compiz and beryl ;) Jun 09 00:51:42 that's not on by default is it? Jun 09 00:52:17 i seriously doubt it.. its not like we have any 3d hardware to use Jun 09 00:52:19 * lcuk cries Jun 09 00:52:37 lcuk, no news about it on lt? Jun 09 00:52:41 * lcuk wipes his tears and gets on with coding anyway Jun 09 00:52:51 on irc i saw some info about it Jun 09 00:53:18 ie. 'nokia has libs but can't release anything now' Jun 09 00:53:33 there was just quite a few issues.. right clicking wasn't working (tried using the key launcher app), wireless was a pain, etc. os2008 is very polished compared to debian/xfce on it Jun 09 00:54:09 wolfspirit, that's why you don't use it unless you actually have a reason to. ;) Jun 09 01:13:39 GeneralAntilles: well I like to mess around with gadgets and try out all the different options on them :) Jun 09 01:14:20 GeneralAntilles: the n800 is the first that I've actually like to use outside of just experimenting with it though.. it's a very intuitive little device Jun 09 01:15:56 I've had several ipaqs, the zodiac, a sony clie, gp32, gp2x, audrey, gba, nds, zaurus, etc. Jun 09 01:16:20 oh and the dell aixm x50v :) I'm a gadget geek Jun 09 01:20:31 how do you change where the browser downloads files to? Jun 09 01:20:49 usually when it pops up it will ask you Jun 09 01:20:53 it did for me anyways Jun 09 01:21:38 ^ Jun 09 01:21:40 Tap "save" Jun 09 01:22:00 GeneralAntilles, OmniPlan + export html/jpg ;) Jun 09 01:22:09 (re: timeline in Mediawiki) Jun 09 01:22:22 Yeah, not a bad plan. :P Jun 09 01:22:35 <3 OmniGroup Jun 09 01:24:56 http://www.techamok.com/?pid=4639 Jun 09 01:24:57 ouch Jun 09 01:29:10 right, gnite kot and whoevers awake :) Jun 09 01:29:23 nite nite Jun 09 02:25:19 sorry Jun 09 02:40:12 http://blog.wired.com/sterling/2008/06/eriks-prototype.html Jun 09 02:42:06 old Jun 09 02:42:07 :) Jun 09 02:42:31 doh Jun 09 02:42:34 and probably not practical Jun 09 02:46:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mdMb6bRXt4 Jun 09 02:47:06 greatest video evah Jun 09 02:49:24 old too Jun 09 02:49:25 :) Jun 09 02:49:36 yeah i just found out Jun 09 02:49:49 dolly song has a nice bassline too Jun 09 02:50:15 (it's the loituma remake by some studio) Jun 09 02:50:23 saw that one too Jun 09 02:50:27 i've been catching up Jun 09 02:50:43 ask me about techno crazy frog Jun 09 02:50:57 i have heard some very nice beefed up bassline of loituma, but can't find it in mp3 Jun 09 02:51:07 they're all on youtube i think Jun 09 02:51:15 yeah, but i can't find it Jun 09 02:51:40 you know, i have heard the remix in some vid, but can't find the full mp3 Jun 09 02:56:12 i'm a little dissapointed Jun 09 02:56:35 some maemo people don't understand the Jun 09 02:56:58 problems inherent in force and fraud Jun 09 02:57:28 but i'll get you up to speed Jun 09 02:57:48 Hehe Jun 09 02:58:30 gen you're a good candidate for mises.org media Jun 09 02:59:12 http://mises.org/media.aspx **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 09 02:59:56 2008