**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 18 02:59:56 2008 Jun 18 03:12:19 I'm just about to swap my N810 for a new one (hardware fault with the keyboard) - any recommendations on how to back it up and restore it exactly as is? Jun 18 03:12:36 I've got openSSH installed and running, so I could do some sort of scp backup if that's possible... Jun 18 03:12:56 chmac: Use the backup and restore application in the control panel? Jun 18 03:13:19 m-c: I just read about that and it doesn't backup very much data does it? Jun 18 03:13:31 m-c: It doesn't backup installed applications, etc Jun 18 03:13:57 m-c: Ideally I'd like to do a full backup of the root partition and the internal memory card if possible, but I don't know if I can do that while the device is running Jun 18 03:14:30 Well, that's what I used and I sent two N800 in for repairs. Worked well enough. Jun 18 03:15:58 m-c: Ok, did you get the same unit back, or a replacement unit? Jun 18 03:16:49 one of each Jun 18 03:16:54 m-c: The N800 doesn't have an in-built memory card does it? Jun 18 03:17:32 I can probably back that up via sftp though Jun 18 03:23:28 chmac: no.. but it has two SD slots Jun 18 03:24:22 www.shmoocon.org Jun 18 03:24:28 Tester: Yeah, so you can pull both cards out. I really would like a full size SD slot in my N810, I do so love my SanDisk SD Plus cards :) Jun 18 03:24:28 the builtin backup app will backup the list of applications that have been installed through the app manager Jun 18 03:24:42 Tester: Ok, cool, so I can probably restore from that Jun 18 03:25:00 I'm not sure I actually want to re-install them all anyway, I've been playing with this tablet knowing it has to go back Jun 18 03:25:31 but if you want to backup everything, you can probably do ssh root@n8x0 tar xvf > file.tar Jun 18 03:25:55 err... tar xv / > file.tar Jun 18 03:26:01 hmm I have no idea why I pasted that here, sorry. Jun 18 03:29:11 Tester: Yeah, I'm ssh'd on now, I'm running an sftp backup of /media/mmc2 Jun 18 03:29:26 I'll try a tar of / as well... Jun 18 03:30:20 Gotta go to lunch :) Jun 18 03:31:01 I need a bigger internal SD Jun 18 03:31:31 can it be switched out? Jun 18 03:44:37 I kind of miss the swapable internal memorycard on n810. Jun 18 03:47:00 it's pretty handy when going to traveling. At the start I uplodad lots of music and podcast to the 8gb memory. while traveling I take a lot's of photos and move those in to n800. When the memory get's full, just need to remove some old podcasts / music to get space for the pictures. Jun 18 03:47:33 and sometimes it's nice to show some pics to other people. Jun 18 04:20:51 =] got rtorrent working Jun 18 04:41:37 yawn Jun 18 04:46:34 now I know. yawn can continue even via irc.... Jun 18 04:58:48 HI I want to port XULRunner on to Maemo platform any Idea ? Jun 18 05:02:10 there is a port Jun 18 05:02:17 afaik Jun 18 05:02:53 http://blog.mozilla.com/blassey/2008/03/17/maemo-buildbot/ Jun 18 05:03:07 first google result for "xulrunner maemo" :P Jun 18 05:05:36 atul, Antonia already replied in the mailing list Jun 18 05:10:39 would somebody know what's the recommended way of removing application created directories upon uninstallation? Jun 18 05:12:12 my app creates .[$PACKAGE] directories in users' home directory.. Jun 18 05:26:47 or.. how can I make a program capable of writing in it's own directory? Jun 18 05:28:26 hi, can i edit just the bootmenu.conf or .sh or must i reflash the whole thing? Jun 18 05:33:15 night Jun 18 05:34:10 Hi MicroB is the "Mozilla based browser for maemo", previously it won't come with XULRunner whatis the current status of it ? Does it support now ? Jun 18 05:38:51 atul, didnt you read what I just said? Jun 18 05:50:38 okay... how can I chown an installed application to the current user upon deb package install? Jun 18 05:56:00 where do applications usually write data files in linux? Jun 18 05:58:48 argh, everybody's still sleeping Jun 18 05:58:49 uhm...what kind of data files? Jun 18 05:59:00 normally: in your home directory. Jun 18 06:00:35 On the tablet: varies a little, but I'd say in the special directories under your home directory are most usual. Jun 18 06:01:48 so, if I use the home directory, how do I remove the special directory when the app is uninstalled_ Jun 18 06:01:51 ? Jun 18 06:01:52 (/home/user/MyDocs and the hidden directories there (but they show up in file manager) Jun 18 06:02:39 I could put rm -rf in postrm, but that approach has disadvantages Jun 18 06:03:12 uhm...yah. I'd say you *don't* remove users file when app is uninstalled. Jun 18 06:04:45 that's not good either Jun 18 06:05:13 but, need to go. work. Jun 18 06:05:38 I think that the normal approach is to only remove config files when --purge parameter is passed Jun 18 06:06:09 I might have 20MB of cached files in the special folder for example Jun 18 06:06:32 what kind of files? Jun 18 06:06:51 anything... pictures, sound, text Jun 18 06:07:02 hi, i am porting a simple Qt phonon app on maemo platform(N810), but some media formats are not working. it gives me http://pastebin.com/m521b7fa5 before the app is run. Jun 18 06:08:32 did you try installing that package? Jun 18 06:09:06 yep, i have installed everything related to gstreamer Jun 18 06:11:01 just saw this linked on another channel: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wireless.general/11997 Jun 18 06:11:25 it's a preliminary open source driver for the n8x0 wifi chip. Jun 18 06:11:40 was this done by someone on here? Jun 18 06:11:51 sigh... looks like there's no way other than to create the data diretory in /home/user/ Jun 18 06:12:23 sometimes I just hate the linux file permission paranoia Jun 18 06:12:54 johnx, I've heard that driver mentioned on here before, the guy has a website too (can't remember it though) Jun 18 06:13:27 qwerty12, it's linked in a reply to that. Jun 18 06:13:30 somebody should think of a good solution to having to write the root password 50 times a day... Jun 18 06:13:41 Mikho, sudo Jun 18 06:13:53 then you can write your own password 30 times a day Jun 18 06:14:03 johnx, doh. sorry, I'm having a blond hair day. Jun 18 06:14:13 it's 50 with sudo in my case :( Jun 18 06:14:15 qwerty12, just wanted to make sure that potential hackers knew about it here Jun 18 06:14:38 hey, maybe I could increase the sudo timeout to something like 24 hours Jun 18 06:15:00 or even just 30 minutes Jun 18 06:15:24 or just put a NOPASWD (Sp!) line in /etc/sudoers Jun 18 06:15:31 oh Jun 18 06:15:36 nice! Jun 18 06:16:22 why didn't I think of this earlier... just suffered silently Jun 18 06:21:45 oh, now I remember... got discouraged for having to edit the sudoers file with vi Jun 18 06:24:41 Mikho, vi is aaaaawesome Jun 18 06:24:49 but do you have nano installed? Jun 18 06:24:59 it's the most unintuitive piece of software in the world Jun 18 06:25:01 EDITOR=nano visudo Jun 18 06:25:33 hmm, maybe everything associated with autoconf is a bit more unintuitive Jun 18 06:26:00 vi is closer to anti-intuitive in my mind Jun 18 06:26:15 it works the way you would assume it didn't Jun 18 06:26:28 but then I got used to it and actually like it O_o Jun 18 06:26:32 hmm, I could use that presumpion to guess what I should do Jun 18 06:26:47 but only in some modes :) Jun 18 06:27:20 for example, if I wanted to save, I could try to use the most unlikely key combination possible to quit Jun 18 06:27:27 like... :w Jun 18 06:27:37 yup Jun 18 06:27:50 Jun 18 06:27:52 I still don't completely remember how to save to a new file :/ Jun 18 06:41:57 is there a way to use clear on maemo xterm' Jun 18 06:42:14 does ctrl+l work? Jun 18 06:42:43 yea Jun 18 06:44:21 thanks, i'm guessing its possible to 'simulate' ctrl+l and create a clear sh script, right? Jun 18 06:44:50 I don't know actually Jun 18 06:45:08 gonna search Jun 18 06:45:16 good morning Jun 18 06:45:31 Svn of xterm has clear function built in and there is a "clear" binary compiled by locusf Jun 18 06:45:50 s/svn of xterm/svn of osso-xterm/ Jun 18 07:05:17 ok, how can I add the user to a group in maemo? Jun 18 07:05:30 the usermod command is missing the -a option... Jun 18 07:08:21 hmm...I ran into this before Jun 18 07:08:25 let me find it Jun 18 07:10:28 has anybody have any problems with hildon banners? Jun 18 07:10:31 Mikho: you can always just edit the /etc/group file. Jun 18 07:11:25 Veggen, for that, It'd need to create a script in postinst, and that's a bit too much for such a simple operation Jun 18 07:15:32 Mikho, gpasswd Jun 18 07:17:12 johnx, thanks Jun 18 07:17:13 it's sometimes very hard to google up things like that Jun 18 07:17:19 agreed Jun 18 07:17:25 I asked this same question on here 2 months ago Jun 18 07:17:32 I dug the answer up in my log Jun 18 07:18:34 oh :) Jun 18 07:22:44 Hey, folks, anybody knows how I can *disable* "awesome" FireFox 3.0 address bar so that it works the same way as in 2.0? Jun 18 07:23:08 The "awesome" version is slow as hell and does not appear to find what I want it to find Jun 18 07:25:18 if I had to guess, I'd say poke around about:config and look for urlbar maybe? Jun 18 07:25:46 Found it Jun 18 07:25:48 browser.urlbar.matchOnlyTyped Jun 18 07:25:51 set it to true Jun 18 07:26:09 ...though I really like the new bahavior Jun 18 07:26:18 it did take some training of it though Jun 18 07:28:38 it is sad to see that they are going the same way as IE7 Jun 18 07:28:51 they are trying to "fix" things that are not broken Jun 18 07:29:28 yeah, why should they try to make changes? protect the status quo, man! Jun 18 07:33:00 I am fine with them making changes Jun 18 07:33:17 I am *not* fine with the feature creep Jun 18 07:33:57 like what? Jun 18 07:34:02 they've reduced memory usage Jun 18 07:34:40 I do not see reduced memory usage Jun 18 07:35:00 I do see that the browser became noticeably slower, especially various XUL UI transitions Jun 18 07:35:31 Browser currently takes 73MB of memory with 2 tabs open Jun 18 07:35:34 WinXP Jun 18 07:36:04 I think what was reduced most was memory usage with lots of tabs Jun 18 07:36:11 anyways, back later Jun 18 07:36:12 <`0660> the awesome bar seems to a couple of visits to calibrate Jun 18 07:36:26 I disabled it Jun 18 07:36:36 <`0660> i thought it sucked too, but now it seems to behave very well Jun 18 07:36:46 It still redraws very slowly and shows two lines per URL though Jun 18 07:37:09 <`0660> strange Jun 18 07:37:23 <`0660> it's very quick here even though the computer is not that new Jun 18 07:37:43 And why can't I press a navigation arrow to get history any more? Jun 18 07:38:07 What is the story with these ugly assymetric arrows and a tiny drop down for the history? Jun 18 07:38:35 <`0660> why did you update in the first place? Jun 18 07:38:48 <`0660> you obviously don't like change at all Jun 18 07:38:55 <`0660> :) Jun 18 07:39:00 Well, I wanted to be a good lemming and hoped it would be improved Jun 18 07:39:10 I do not see much improvement-wise, unfortunately Jun 18 07:39:38 Slower, has got a bunch of unnecessary misfeatures Jun 18 07:40:04 <`0660> maybe there is something wrong with your installation Jun 18 07:40:13 Doubtful Jun 18 07:40:26 Aside from it being FireFox 3.0 of course Jun 18 07:40:34 <`0660> i've read a few reviews and they all said that the memory usage should be lower now Jun 18 07:40:45 Ok, how much is your memory usage right now? Jun 18 07:40:56 <`0660> 66mb Jun 18 07:41:04 88MB here (two tabs) Jun 18 07:41:14 <`0660> i have two tabs too Jun 18 07:41:14 So it is the same or higher than in FF 2.x Jun 18 07:41:30 <`0660> though i know that it keeps some of the previously opened pages in the memory Jun 18 07:41:32 I had 61MB just a few minutes ago, so I guess it is just growing Jun 18 07:42:15 <`0660> i don't think that is too much Jun 18 07:42:28 it is not, but it is not lower than 2.x Jun 18 07:42:35 <`0660> ff 2.0 used to leak like hell Jun 18 07:42:51 I am pretty sure this trend will continue with 3.x Jun 18 07:42:58 <`0660> i hope not Jun 18 07:43:16 btw, iconizing it and opening it again trims memory to 35MB on WinXP Jun 18 07:43:38 Well, we can of course hope, but you know how it usually goes... Jun 18 07:43:42 <`0660> it probably flushes the previous pages from memory then Jun 18 07:44:05 <`0660> not bad Jun 18 07:44:06 memory trimming on XP was an option in 2.x as well (disabled by default) Jun 18 07:45:11 <`0660> so, are you planning to downgrade anytime soon? Jun 18 07:46:02 I will wait for now Jun 18 07:46:20 I am urgently looking for ways to downgrade certain "features" though Jun 18 07:46:48 Just dumbed down the address bar, now looking how ot make navigation arrows the same size Jun 18 07:50:18 RST38h: they are the same size here :/ Jun 18 07:50:45 * aquatix rather likes fx3 Jun 18 07:51:08 the address bar took a bit of getting-used-to, but i quite like it Jun 18 07:51:14 aquatix: Forward arrow is bigger than backward one Jun 18 07:51:21 aquatix: What theme are you using? Jun 18 07:51:28 default Jun 18 07:51:48 arrows are evenly large on both linux [debian, ubuntu] as on windows xp Jun 18 07:51:52 * RST38h disabled the mo#$&^ing "smart" address bar: it kept bringing up dynamically generated GMail URLs Jun 18 07:52:05 aquatix: No. Definitely not. Jun 18 07:53:11 aquatix: Default theme: http://mozillalinks.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/firefox_xp.png Jun 18 07:53:22 * aquatix uploads screenshot Jun 18 07:53:23 sec Jun 18 07:54:38 RST38h: http://aquariusoft.org/gallery/v/screenies/various/firefox_3_winxp.html Jun 18 07:55:04 this is not default theme Jun 18 07:55:15 it is Jun 18 07:55:21 No Jun 18 07:55:29 sure Jun 18 07:55:36 another screenshot? :) Jun 18 07:55:48 don't mind the blackness, that's just windows Jun 18 07:55:54 icon theme etc is the default Jun 18 07:56:08 aquatix: Look at screenshots at http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/features/ Jun 18 07:56:14 They show the default theme Jun 18 07:56:29 The theme you have is *not* what 3.0 release ships with Jun 18 07:57:21 http://aquariusoft.org/gallery/v/screenies/various/firefox_3_winxp_default_theme.html Jun 18 07:57:26 RST38h: sure is Jun 18 07:57:37 i don't know why the button isn't as large as the other Jun 18 07:57:41 maybe it will help you though :) Jun 18 07:57:47 erm Jun 18 07:57:51 isn't larger than Jun 18 07:58:08 weird Jun 18 07:58:12 but i upgraded from firefox 2 to a beta, and gradually upgraded Jun 18 07:58:27 this sure is the final, with the default theme Jun 18 07:58:32 * aquatix looks in the config Jun 18 07:58:38 anyway, looking for a way to disable this IEish crap Jun 18 07:58:54 And just get a pair of same-sized arrows with drop-down history Jun 18 07:59:00 like mine ;) Jun 18 07:59:43 oh Jun 18 07:59:52 RST38h: i moved those buttons to the menu bar btw Jun 18 08:00:11 maybe that's why Jun 18 08:00:30 i always move the navigation and address bar to the menu bar and disable the other two bars Jun 18 08:00:36 like in the screenshot Jun 18 08:00:49 might be worth a shot ;) Jun 18 08:06:08 morning Jun 18 08:13:31 aquatix: trying... Jun 18 08:14:19 nope, same shit Jun 18 08:26:39 good morning Jun 18 08:27:21 hi Jun 18 08:28:06 the lab of N800 http://www.indt.org Jun 18 08:29:56 RST38h: odd Jun 18 08:30:12 Italodance: Yes, we should have some INDT people in here :-) Jun 18 08:31:15 do we have? Jun 18 08:39:04 yay, back in linux for the first time in months >_< Jun 18 08:50:02 yay Jun 18 08:50:52 rm_you: heretic! Jun 18 08:50:57 welcome back :) Jun 18 08:51:19 * RST38h killed off all the helpful services Microsoft courteously enabled in SP3 Jun 18 08:52:19 Microsoft *really* wants inside your computer now Jun 18 08:52:21 clippy is a service now? Jun 18 08:52:32 lol Jun 18 08:52:40 RST38h: and why are you running windows? ;) Jun 18 08:52:53 gah gotta restart X tho, wine switched video modes and now I only have one screen >_> Jun 18 08:53:05 aquatix: Because I need to run Windows. Jun 18 08:53:12 ubuntu was pissing me off recently, so now I'm running pure debian :P Jun 18 08:53:18 * aquatix is forced to use windows at work Jun 18 08:53:25 so i run fullscreen putty Jun 18 08:53:27 * rm_you is also forced to use windows at work Jun 18 08:53:29 aquatix: Clippy is fortunately gone, but it has got a few adult friends now Jun 18 08:53:36 * rm_you also runs fullscreen putty Jun 18 08:53:48 rm_you: :) Jun 18 08:53:53 RST38h, 18+ rated clippy!? :P Jun 18 08:54:07 There is PCHealth (remote assitance service) and Security Center (god knows what it does) and Windows Autoupdate which you can't disable because then MS WinUpdate website stops working Jun 18 08:54:22 rm_you: that might even be an idea ;) Jun 18 08:54:29 There is someting ominously named Secondary Logon (looks like a universal SUDO service) Jun 18 08:54:40 RST38h: security center bitches if you have no av or fw installed Jun 18 08:54:49 RST38h: thats about only thing it does Jun 18 08:54:56 glass: Well, no longer bitches about anything NOW. Jun 18 08:55:01 glass_: handy when somehow the windows firewall fails again Jun 18 08:55:10 RST38h: :) Jun 18 08:55:24 * RST38h is still unsure whether he wants to disable Task Scheduler Jun 18 08:55:27 i hated it when it kept re-enabling windows firewall Jun 18 08:55:34 i had a 3rd party firewall that's way better Jun 18 08:55:36 aquatix: running 3rd party firewalls is usually a good way to slow and fuck up your windows Jun 18 08:55:48 kerio was quite nice back then Jun 18 08:55:48 * RST38h has got a firewall inside the router Jun 18 08:55:55 a lame one, but it does the job Jun 18 08:55:57 RST38h: firewall or only nat? Jun 18 08:56:05 i liked to view the outgoing stuff too Jun 18 08:56:12 like windows services phoning home ;) Jun 18 08:56:13 i don't like to view outgoing stuff Jun 18 08:56:18 anyone know how to use xrandr? Jun 18 08:56:23 I just need to reset my display Jun 18 08:56:31 it got messed up from Wine switching modes Jun 18 08:56:36 outgoing stuff i don't want i got blocked in etc hosts Jun 18 08:56:43 I could just restart X... >_> Jun 18 08:56:49 didn't want to do that if I can avoid it though Jun 18 08:56:58 seeing as how this may happen several more times Jun 18 08:58:37 aquatix: nat+firewall Jun 18 08:58:49 aquatix: DI-624 is a wonderful little box Jun 18 08:59:42 True, it is made of recycled plastic (and probably recycled components) and it's web based UI is obviously designed by Chinese university dropouts, but it works! Jun 18 09:02:33 :) Jun 18 09:02:39 * aquatix has a wrt54g Jun 18 09:03:24 * RST38h wanted to buy wrt54g first but the thing looked offensively ugly and (more important) had a hardwired admin password Jun 18 09:03:36 eh Jun 18 09:03:39 mine doesn't Jun 18 09:03:42 and it runs dd-wrt Jun 18 09:03:43 it is probably gone now Jun 18 09:03:59 but at that time it raised a mental alarm Jun 18 09:04:00 and even the default firmware could get another pw Jun 18 09:04:24 I am sure linksys updated firmware more than once since then Jun 18 09:04:41 * aquatix doesn't use it Jun 18 09:04:52 i use open source firmware on it, with way more possibilities Jun 18 09:06:07 ah Jun 18 09:09:18 but does it run x11? =)~~~ Jun 18 09:09:27 erm Jun 18 09:09:34 the thing has 8MB of flash ram Jun 18 09:09:38 what do you expect :P Jun 18 09:09:47 hehe Jun 18 09:09:48 but it has a neat web interface and an sshd Jun 18 09:10:02 http://www.dd-wrt.com/dd-wrtv3/index.php Jun 18 09:10:19 cute Jun 18 09:10:30 yours isn't in the list of supported devices though :/ Jun 18 09:10:34 http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Supported_Devices#D-Link Jun 18 09:24:25 load applet is good for u? Jun 18 09:41:27 sweet Jun 18 09:41:36 johnx: loving a2dp support in debian Jun 18 09:41:41 that was all of a 5 minute setup Jun 18 09:41:48 and it works excellently :P Jun 18 09:41:52 didn't even have to pair, lol Jun 18 09:54:56 rm_you: should work the same under maemo with johnx's scripts Jun 18 09:56:02 heh Jun 18 09:56:11 I did some work with a2dp for a while on n800... Jun 18 09:56:19 it seems to work decently well now tho Jun 18 09:56:24 will work better when you get your thing done :P Jun 18 09:56:35 yeah, need to do optimisation Jun 18 09:56:48 I wonder if people would be interested in helping with that? Should I email the list? Jun 18 09:57:14 so did everyone get firefox 3? :) Jun 18 09:57:27 i actually got it a sec ago to my vista machine Jun 18 09:57:36 RST38h: you could actually use google to read about the back/forward bars Jun 18 09:57:46 s/bars/buttons Jun 18 09:58:08 I've got the beta from a week ago, it's even slower than ff2 on WinXP Jun 18 09:58:30 lardman: there was no beta a week ago Jun 18 09:58:31 timely: I got... iceweasel 3 >_> Jun 18 09:58:32 there was an rc... Jun 18 09:58:46 rm_you: its already on backports/testing? Jun 18 09:58:52 timely: that then Jun 18 09:59:03 heh Jun 18 09:59:09 macoute: I run Sid Jun 18 09:59:31 rm_you: yeah Jun 18 10:44:27 I keep getting a dialogue box saying "Internal error. Application 'E-mail' closed." I click okay, but it just pops up again Jun 18 10:45:00 * aquatix gets them too now and then Jun 18 10:45:20 How does one stop them Jun 18 10:46:28 don't run the mail client? :) Jun 18 10:46:42 better would be to enable crash reporting and send crash reports Jun 18 10:46:43 I don't think I was Jun 18 10:46:43 timely: backgrounded service Jun 18 10:46:46 then the bugs might be fixed Jun 18 10:47:17 I am ssh'ed in, so if anyone can tell me what the process name is I'll banish it Jun 18 10:47:20 aquatix: does it have an icon in task switcher? Jun 18 10:47:32 EvilGuru: just use ps, the list isn't very long Jun 18 10:47:42 it'd probably either say 'mail' or 'modest' Jun 18 10:47:59 but seriously, do you have /media/mmc1/core-dumps ? Jun 18 10:48:02 if not, why not create it? Jun 18 10:48:22 instead of complaining about dialogs, you should ask what you can do to help the dialogs not happen in the future Jun 18 10:48:30 and file a bug against the descriptiveness of the error message too Jun 18 10:48:45 aquatix: i'm serious though... if the dialog is showing that for an app w/o an icon Jun 18 10:49:01 timely: Normally when I report bug reports, I expect at the very least to have a back-trace, or an exit code Jun 18 10:49:04 then a bug should be filed, because it needs to indicate the distinction between something the user is aware of and something the user isn't aware of Jun 18 10:49:13 *file Jun 18 10:49:15 EvilGuru: /media/mmc1/core-dumps will give you the core dump Jun 18 10:49:35 and dmesg should probably give you the death if you really don't want to use gdb Jun 18 10:49:49 I am fine w/gdb Jun 18 10:50:14 you didn't specify a release, which are you using? Jun 18 10:50:24 timely: agreed Jun 18 10:50:24 i'm using something like 0.2007.39-4 Jun 18 10:50:34 Good question. I shall look it up Jun 18 10:50:40 aquatix: i still need to know if it was shown in the switcher Jun 18 10:50:46 /media/mmc1/core-dumps should be a dir? Jun 18 10:50:48 * aquatix creates Jun 18 10:50:48 it's either a bug or not a bug, and i don't know :) Jun 18 10:50:54 timely: no, it wasn't Jun 18 10:51:03 aquatix: cat /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern Jun 18 10:51:07 * timely thinks that's right Jun 18 10:51:11 However, until I can kill whatever is producing the dialogue box, the best I can do is ssh Jun 18 10:51:22 i come online on wifi, i do some browsing, the `new mail' icon starts flashing and that error appears Jun 18 10:51:24 aquatix: yes it should be a dir Jun 18 10:51:41 aquatix: that's in the status bar at the top? Jun 18 10:51:52 or the thing at the bottom let flashes, or ... Jun 18 10:52:01 timely: no, in the open apps menu Jun 18 10:52:02 (this platform has way too many indicator locations) Jun 18 10:52:07 the latter Jun 18 10:52:28 aquatix: version question also applies to you Jun 18 10:52:48 (and if you're running a modest weekly, you should indicate that ...) Jun 18 10:53:05 modest weekly Jun 18 10:53:10 oh brother Jun 18 10:53:18 * aquatix created dir Jun 18 10:53:25 and you didn't know about that directory? Jun 18 10:53:32 nope :) Jun 18 10:53:35 slap me ;) Jun 18 10:53:44 * sp3000 slaps aquatix Jun 18 10:53:49 sp3000: hey Jun 18 10:53:53 not you ;) Jun 18 10:53:56 are there instructions about this modest weekly? Jun 18 10:54:06 sp3000 is more conveniently located to slap you :) Jun 18 10:54:18 Does CPP have XPCOM binding ? Jun 18 10:54:18 seriously though, i just installed modest, get the weekly releases, but never saw info on that dir Jun 18 10:54:24 timely: heh Jun 18 10:54:30 atul: um, xpcom is built around c++ Jun 18 10:54:37 so that's like asking if c++ has a c++ binding Jun 18 10:55:05 brb Jun 18 10:55:14 * timely leaves Jun 18 10:55:40 * sp3000 hiccups Jun 18 10:56:04 no party for you? Jun 18 10:56:16 timely, ok but can I get some documentation for same means How to integrate CPP code into the XULRunner Jun 18 10:56:23 not today no :) Jun 18 10:56:56 atul: last i checked there was an entire wiki @ developer.mozilla.org Jun 18 10:56:58 you could read it Jun 18 10:57:09 but really, please don't ask questions about mozilla here Jun 18 10:57:13 irc://irc.mozilla.org Jun 18 10:57:18 kk Jun 18 10:57:23 and read devmo first before asking questions Jun 18 10:57:40 you're supposed to sound informed before bothering engineers or sounding like you don't know anything Jun 18 11:00:49 timely, hello asking anything is upto me reply or not its upto you who ask you to reply ? Jun 18 11:01:22 timely, am not asking any dam questions ? If you dont know keep quite. Jun 18 11:01:37 um Jun 18 11:01:40 i do know the answers Jun 18 11:01:51 but you're asking questions that you should be able to get from reading a book Jun 18 11:02:13 it's irritating for people to ask for help when they haven't done even basic research Jun 18 11:02:29 i'm here because i work on mozilla and maemo Jun 18 11:02:58 re Jun 18 11:03:00 and yes, you're welcome not to ask anything Jun 18 11:03:04 in fact you're encouraged not ot Jun 18 11:03:07 s/ot/to Jun 18 11:03:17 you should start by joining a channel and only *reading* Jun 18 11:03:25 don't ask questions until you understand channel dynamics Jun 18 11:03:32 * aquatix pats timely Jun 18 11:03:43 here's some relaxing tea :) Jun 18 11:03:44 * timely goes to a party Jun 18 11:03:48 ah, have fun! Jun 18 11:03:49 timely, hello dont waste your time ok do your work and never help the people its good for your health Jun 18 11:04:02 * timely sighs Jun 18 11:04:12 timely: off to your party, you! Jun 18 11:04:23 * aquatix shoves timely out of #maemo ;) Jun 18 11:04:30 [better for your healthy ;)] Jun 18 11:04:33 -y Jun 18 11:04:41 cool down guys Jun 18 11:06:39 timely, How do you help the person who don't know any thing how he help other haha work on maemo and mozilla did you konw long form of it. Jun 18 11:07:16 erm Jun 18 11:07:19 was that english? :) Jun 18 11:07:44 atul: he expects that you will do at least some research yourself... its really easy to find developer documentation for mozilla, just chill and do some googling Jun 18 11:07:54 atul: what timely meant, was that it's polite to read the channel for a bit and see how things are done here Jun 18 11:08:02 and what trickie says Jun 18 11:08:44 * lcuk does some random googling and wonders why his eyes pop out Jun 18 11:08:53 * lcuk re-enables google safe search ;) Jun 18 11:08:58 ghehe Jun 18 11:08:58 :) Jun 18 11:09:11 trickie, aquatix, After googling and doing other basic stuff then onlly I ask here but that guy is talking fully rubish things so I Reply. Jun 18 11:09:12 lcuk: it helps not googling on things like `goatse' and such ;) Jun 18 11:09:13 select "web" not "images"..... Jun 18 11:09:22 lardman: :) Jun 18 11:09:39 but google now displays an overall search, if theres enough images on a subject it shows a few .. Jun 18 11:09:42 lcuk: ah, and don't image search on two girls in bath tubs Jun 18 11:09:51 nothing is safe, what has been seen cannot be unseen and all that Jun 18 11:09:52 indeed Jun 18 11:09:53 or cups Jun 18 11:09:57 Also, my N810 takes around 5-6 minutes to boot. Most of it on the screen just saying "NOKIA" on a white background. How would I go about diagnosing this Jun 18 11:10:00 lol @ cups Jun 18 11:10:03 trickie: erm, or that indeed ;) Jun 18 11:10:06 aquatix: reading your Google suggestions? ;) Jun 18 11:10:12 lardman: shush ;) Jun 18 11:10:27 top shows: 116 root RW 0 6 98.8 0.0 pdflush which seems a little odd Jun 18 11:10:39 ah, pdflush issue Jun 18 11:10:41 * lcuk knows all about 2g1c and tubg etc, ive read slash for long enough Jun 18 11:10:48 lcuk: :) Jun 18 11:11:13 EvilGuru: now i'm trying to remember where i read more about it Jun 18 11:11:19 i think there's a bugzilla item on it Jun 18 11:12:16 Few things in the log about it Jun 18 11:12:56 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2615 Jun 18 11:13:03 boom, fixed, rss reader Jun 18 11:16:35 * aquatix doesn't have trouble with the rss reader Jun 18 11:16:46 i even use the applet Jun 18 11:17:01 turn off scrolling? Jun 18 11:17:40 yeah Jun 18 11:17:46 of course :) Jun 18 11:17:52 cpu drain :/ Jun 18 11:18:08 bring on OpenGL ;) Jun 18 11:18:15 :) Jun 18 11:19:12 OpenGL would be neat. Might be able to get Warzone 2100 running on it Jun 18 11:19:27 mmmmmmm ogl Jun 18 11:19:54 nit's *might* need an graphics adapter update for that ;) Jun 18 11:20:05 ogl would mean i could do my transitions easier Jun 18 11:20:19 aquatix, we have 3d hardware already.. Jun 18 11:20:40 hm :) Jun 18 11:20:42 or you mean for warzone Jun 18 11:21:23 at least for the latter, but i didn't know current tablets already did have decent 3D hardware Jun 18 11:21:51 not decent, but certainly able to boost the performance of current Jun 18 11:22:19 plays Quake 3? demo doesn't it? Jun 18 11:22:24 replace all that cpu rendering work with stuff on chip leaves us moar time to do real work :) Jun 18 11:23:14 probably Quake 2. Here's Quake 1 using the hw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhmUqk4XDYQ Jun 18 11:23:31 ok, let me just see something here: there is a driver for symbian which works with this chip. that driver might not be in the required format but its 100% compatible and designed for this hardware Jun 18 11:23:41 hm :) Jun 18 11:24:27 if we had that driver as a binary could we do something similar to how linux wraps windows network drivers Jun 18 11:25:02 better to reverse engineer it, but I'm not sure about the availability of Symbian decompilers Jun 18 11:25:32 but reverse engineering brings its own complications, im thinking of just using it Jun 18 11:25:54 ah-ha, it was Quake 3: http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/006/12/quake3_n93.htm Jun 18 11:25:59 and shouldnt the core assembly be the same - since its for the same cpu? Jun 18 11:26:18 The work involved in wrapping the driver will be worse than reversing it I'd guess Jun 18 11:26:26 *nod* Jun 18 11:26:29 ie any dis should work? or is it the eabi or whatever which handles callstack organisation etc Jun 18 11:26:31 decompiling the symbian drivers.. Jun 18 11:26:33 i would guess so Jun 18 11:26:34 just forget about it, ok? Jun 18 11:26:42 depends if it loads some sort of binary blob, that could be copied across Jun 18 11:26:43 * lcuk is just throwing things in the air Jun 18 11:26:43 glass_: :) Jun 18 11:27:02 glass_: why's that? Jun 18 11:27:22 lardman: debugging your own programs is pain enough Jun 18 11:27:29 lcuk: you need to be able to interpret what the instructions do, and also the form of the binary calls Jun 18 11:27:49 glass_: sure, but what's life without a challenge :) Jun 18 11:28:28 lardman: for most people just getting a helloworld compiled and put to phone is enough challange Jun 18 11:28:37 but anyways Jun 18 11:28:40 * lcuk might make a random program to poke pvr address space Jun 18 11:28:56 ph5: has already done that Jun 18 11:28:58 you could try figuring out the fw of the nokia updater things first Jun 18 11:29:06 theres already a test init program somewhere isnt there Jun 18 11:29:22 theres jailbreak for 3rd eds now though Jun 18 11:30:09 anyone happen to have the symbian driver lying around? Jun 18 11:30:36 * lcuk likes it when discussions turn practical Jun 18 11:30:43 nope Jun 18 11:31:28 4fgVSFDGXDJDSRAJZE5R~SJIZ6SWRRRRRREEESSSSSSSSSSSSS V Jun 18 11:31:47 RST38h: and the user? Jun 18 11:31:50 i'd reckon you'd need allfiles capability to get to the file, if it's a seperate file even, on symbian Jun 18 11:32:44 I don't know much about symbian drivers, last time I looked was on the Psion Series 5 Jun 18 11:32:56 Does this allfiles thing allow you to browse the full fs? Jun 18 11:33:03 almost full Jun 18 11:33:05 ~/away Jun 18 11:33:08 oops Jun 18 11:33:14 but you need jailbreak or nokias devcerts to get it Jun 18 11:33:38 or somehow unpack the fw blob the updater uses Jun 18 11:33:54 aquatix: the user has been severely punished Jun 18 11:34:21 glass: AllFiles is full afaik Jun 18 11:34:34 But nobody has legally obtained the capability so far Jun 18 11:34:39 RST38h: theres some files you'd need tcb for Jun 18 11:34:44 It is pretty much restricted to Nokia Jun 18 11:34:48 glass: Oh, yes, those Jun 18 11:34:56 it's possible to get all -tcb caps... Jun 18 11:35:03 you just need to know the right people... Jun 18 11:35:11 and bitch for months on end Jun 18 11:35:15 glass: you can probably get AllFiles then Jun 18 11:35:16 I don't even have one of these phones Jun 18 11:35:24 mmf dll's need all-tcb to be loaded by the system Jun 18 11:35:26 lardman: what do you have? Jun 18 11:35:27 Who should one speak to? Who has one, and who knows what to do? Jun 18 11:35:35 lardman, look here http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6023095418.html benchmarks with powervr on LINUX panasonic phones (and comparison with symbian) Jun 18 11:35:36 gloss: #^%$ Jun 18 11:35:40 I've got a Nokia 6300i iirc Jun 18 11:35:45 lardman: i could help with some stuff as long as it doesn't step too much on my nda's Jun 18 11:36:19 glass_: If you could get me a file system image, or simply the driver, that would be interesting; but that may not be possible for you to do Jun 18 11:36:33 lardman: my card says symbian specialist.. but i'm not a decompile/hack guy Jun 18 11:36:51 * aquatix has a sony ericsson m600i Jun 18 11:36:55 I only want the file, don't worry Jun 18 11:36:59 no idea whether it uses relevant hw? Jun 18 11:37:14 m600i doesn't have the powervr afaik Jun 18 11:37:16 lardman, might not be necessary - i wonder whether getting one of the phones mentioned will have binaries available Jun 18 11:37:17 not enabled anyways Jun 18 11:37:17 lcuk: interesting Jun 18 11:37:30 the linux panasonic phone would be a good start i guess Jun 18 11:37:42 one of the Nokia phones would be better as it used the omap2420 too Jun 18 11:37:52 s/used/uses Jun 18 11:38:07 http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/06/17/choosing-next-cellphone/ Jun 18 11:39:09 e.g. N82, N95, N96 all use omap2420 afaik Jun 18 11:39:13 glass_: ah, k Jun 18 11:39:33 lardman: n93/n93i have the hw 3d too at least Jun 18 11:39:45 n96 doesnt have Jun 18 11:39:49 it's different platform Jun 18 11:39:53 glass_: ah ok Jun 18 11:39:54 diff cpu speed too Jun 18 11:39:59 and it's not in shops yet Jun 18 11:40:06 ah, the m600i uses the Philips Nexperia PNX4008 chip which in turn uses the MBX lite 3D core Jun 18 11:40:07 that's not a problem, just that the omap is the same Jun 18 11:40:07 and it's only forte is the dvb-h really.. Jun 18 11:40:28 so, that's presumably not open source :) Jun 18 11:41:32 too much indirection, if you're going to look at something it may as well be as close to what you've got as possible Jun 18 11:41:44 * lcuk agrees Jun 18 11:47:34 gloss: and Jun 18 11:48:23 sorry Jun 18 11:54:04 no takers then :) Jun 18 11:56:12 hrw: Just buy yourself an S60 based phone and forget about it Jun 18 12:01:19 ;D Jun 18 12:03:53 it's pretty much the only sane choice at the moment Jun 18 12:04:35 WinMobile is too gross, UIQ is ok but usually comes with buggy firmwares, iPhone is very cute but causes permanent psychiatric damage Jun 18 12:04:42 Which leaves us with S60 Jun 18 12:10:10 * aquatix is happy with his uiq3 phone Jun 18 12:10:32 waiting for sony ericsson's p5 [codename paris] Jun 18 12:14:42 * RST38h has got a Moto Z8 for debugging - nice but so buggy Jun 18 12:15:06 And, judging from UIQ3 users' reports, SE phones are not much better =( Jun 18 12:16:07 is z8 still as slow as on release? Jun 18 12:22:26 I dunno - I have engineering firmware Jun 18 12:22:32 It does not feel slow though, just buggy Jun 18 12:24:31 X-Fade, ping. Jun 18 12:24:43 GAN800: pong Jun 18 12:24:57 I'm assuming you saw https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3252 Jun 18 12:25:29 I've shown up as 127.0.0.1 when I forget to login. Jun 18 12:26:23 GAN800: Is that when you edit over http? Jun 18 12:26:36 Good question. Jun 18 12:26:45 I think that it maybe is the because of the proxy in front of it. Jun 18 12:27:00 Seems likely, but I couldn't tell you without testing. Jun 18 12:27:12 Would really help if you could test that ;) Jun 18 12:27:43 But I have now blocked 127.0.0.1, so perhaps this point is already fixed ;) Jun 18 12:28:03 Well, not fixed, but at least it shouldn't show up. Jun 18 12:28:15 So I guess the effect will be blocking anaonymous edits iver http. Jun 18 12:28:37 I'll test as soon as I get out of bed and onto a real machine. Jun 18 12:28:39 I have been deleting spam again.. Jun 18 12:28:50 I saw Jun 18 12:29:24 I was pondering over blocking anonymous edits last night. Jun 18 12:29:45 I have been talking with Dave about it. He was also thinking of doing that. Jun 18 12:30:54 On the one hand, it does rather significantly up the barrier to entry, which can bad for getting new users involved. On the other, we just don't have the manpower to police things all the time. Jun 18 12:31:12 andre____, ping. Jun 18 12:31:21 GAN800: Well, let's see what blocking 127.0.0.1 does. Jun 18 12:45:00 Hehe, a rendering bug in FF3! Jun 18 12:56:09 Can someone update the topic with a link to the logo competition, please? Jun 18 12:56:21 ChanServ: op dneary Jun 18 12:56:22 X-Fade, http == 127.0.0.1 and https == real IP. The issue with blocking 127.0.0.1 as opposed to just disallowing anonymous edits is that it will show up to people like they've been banned. Jun 18 12:56:44 You can just add it. Jun 18 12:57:37 GAN800: Hmm well, it does it's job :) Jun 18 12:58:01 dneary, no +t on this channel Jun 18 12:58:05 GAN800: But I agree we need to fix it. Jun 18 12:58:06 * florian thought he had the power to do so... Jun 18 12:58:57 Fair enough. It may confuse people, though, and does mention your name directly. :P Jun 18 12:59:19 GAN800, pong Jun 18 12:59:41 any garage.maemo.org admins here? I want to remove my account and the web UI doesn't seem to enable me to do that Jun 18 12:59:42 GAN800: Yeah, it does. I'll ask Ferenc if we can prevent this. Jun 18 13:00:54 GAN800: Or we should discuss if we make the wiki read only for anonymous. Jun 18 13:01:08 andre____, if Nokia does want Map bugs, can we get a real component? Jun 18 13:01:32 GAN800, sure, that's on my map Jun 18 13:02:01 (well, i can't say "they want", but it's definitely not that they don't want them :) Jun 18 13:02:02 X-Fade, we should probably discuss it. We might be able to save Ferenc a little time and effort. Jun 18 13:03:13 andre____, it was a bit of a 'thing' when OS2008 came out, 'Map' pretty much sucked, and Nokia didn't seem to want bugs on it. Jun 18 13:04:17 GAN800, understand. but not caring doesn't fix things so we'll change that from now on :) Jun 18 13:04:24 X-Fade, the midgard wiki didn't allow anonymous edits, right? Jun 18 13:56:04 are you going to participate to maemo logo competition? Jun 18 13:56:24 who is 'you' ? Jun 18 13:57:45 summatusmentis: anyone in the channel Jun 18 13:58:45 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_logo_contest Jun 18 13:59:58 I think some people are... I for one, and not Jun 18 14:02:05 although... the prize is nice :) Jun 18 14:02:30 I might give it a try Jun 18 14:03:03 I suck hard at graphic design Jun 18 14:03:29 me too. that's why it could be original enought :) Jun 18 14:07:51 http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Upload tells me that my IP is 127.0.0.1 - fun Jun 18 14:08:38 hrw: it's right you know ;) Jun 18 14:12:31 hrw, use https Jun 18 14:12:35 Or just login. Jun 18 14:12:56 sure Jun 18 14:13:09 hrw, the discussion on that subject is about 4 pages up in the scrollback. :P Jun 18 14:13:12 ok Jun 18 14:43:04 I just got scratchbox and maemosdk set up. I'm trying to build something that uses libvorbis. is there samething I can "apt-get install ..." to provide libvorbis devel? Jun 18 14:56:51