**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 19 02:59:57 2008 Jun 19 04:04:29 is it possible to backport a-gps to chinook? Jun 19 04:11:10 I have the b_idle problem with usbcontrol, how, if possible, can I fix it? Jun 19 04:11:44 btw I am using the usb cable I got with the n810 and a female female adapter Jun 19 04:15:31 putterson: that won't work Jun 19 04:16:11 unixSnob, why not? Jun 19 04:16:13 The n810 usb port is not in host mode Jun 19 04:16:29 unixSnob, and it can't be put into host mode? Jun 19 04:16:37 through the usbcontrol app? Jun 19 04:16:39 You need a special adapter (or software) to put it in host mode Jun 19 04:16:49 ah, sorry, I overlooked that Jun 19 04:17:32 Is usbcontrol the tool that puts it in host mode? If so, I don't know why you would have a problem Jun 19 04:17:40 yes it is Jun 19 04:17:58 this person accomplished it: http://tabletblog.com/2008/03/n810-native-usb-host.html Jun 19 04:19:05 * unixSnob uses an adapter which has two of the pins soldered together, making it host mode Jun 19 04:19:38 I have heard of that method Jun 19 04:20:05 where on the line does the soldering have to be done? Jun 19 04:31:50 what's the difference between "on the go" mode and host mode? Jun 19 04:31:50 my adapter has OTG printed on it.. I thought it was giving me host mode Jun 19 05:09:39 Greetings all! Jun 19 05:10:08 greetings! Jun 19 05:10:09 Hey, anyone here good at abnormal PC troubles? Jun 19 05:10:33 Sorry, I know this isn't the right place to go, but it's the only one I know of. Jun 19 05:11:41 Addison: What kind of troubles? Jun 19 05:11:56 Little green devils dancing along IDE cables? Jun 19 05:12:11 Vampire bat infestation? Jun 19 05:12:20 My computer squibs on me after 5 minutes with my graphics card plugged in. If it's not plugged in then I have no problems. Jun 19 05:12:36 Define "squibs" Jun 19 05:13:14 If I have the colored wire thingies attached to the graphics card, but the card isn't in the motherboard doohicker, should the fan still be working for the card? Jun 19 05:13:46 probably, UNLESS card controls it Jun 19 05:13:48 Squib means, bizzaro screen display and then everything locks up and then the monitor's power light starts blinking. Jun 19 05:14:12 ok. does this always happen at the same place in the program (or system boot process)? Jun 19 05:14:34 Average time of squibbage is anywhere from 3 to 6 minutes. Jun 19 05:14:50 It is one of two then Jun 19 05:15:05 This never happened though until I reformatted my computer using the recovery CDs that it came with though. Jun 19 05:15:30 1) broken drivers (find updated drivers and install) or 2) card overheats Jun 19 05:15:39 I would guess #1 Jun 19 05:15:45 Yeah, I'm thinking that it might be the card overheating. Jun 19 05:15:59 not likely if it worked before Jun 19 05:16:03 Hey, I've got a picture if you don't mind looking at it.... Just give me a second on this. Jun 19 05:16:05 so I would start with #1 Jun 19 05:16:37 probably not worth looking at - nothing can be deduced from it Jun 19 05:17:45 I download the ATI toolie job, thinking that it might figure out my troubles. Jun 19 05:17:57 This is the screenshot after rebooting the computer I think. Jun 19 05:18:00 http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5461/83548235cw3.png Jun 19 05:18:57 you need a new set of drivers. Jun 19 05:19:06 Yeah? That's it? Jun 19 05:19:14 I installed it using the CD it came with. Jun 19 05:19:33 you need an updated set of drivers. google for them. Jun 19 05:19:46 if it is still not working after you install them, then something physical is wrong Jun 19 05:20:23 The thing is, if I have the card installed, I get an immediate pop up error and the exact place to download them from. Problem is, with the card running, I've only got about 2 minutes left to keep the computer running. Jun 19 05:20:52 I think the download is like 35 megs or something stupid. Jun 19 05:21:00 Boot in safe mode. Jun 19 05:21:22 Okay. Sounds like a winner! Jun 19 05:21:29 Thanks a bunch RST! Jun 19 05:21:43 Any chance I could mail you a beer for your troubles? :o) Jun 19 05:22:31 hehe, one day of use and FireFox 3 is using 100+MB of memory Jun 19 05:22:55 Is that on your tablet or real computer RST? Jun 19 05:23:01 so much for "fixed memory leaks" Jun 19 05:23:08 Real PC Jun 19 05:23:48 I'm not all too bright, but that sounds like it sucks. :) Jun 19 05:24:44 By the way, RST38h, what the hell is your name all about or did you just type that in with your feet? Jun 19 05:24:55 google for it Jun 19 05:24:59 Okay. Jun 19 05:25:30 Oh wow! I have no idea you were a famous porn star! Jun 19 05:26:28 had = have. Stupid brain. Jun 19 05:27:17 So is your name Marat? Jun 19 05:39:32 Well, okay. Last question and I'll head out. Jun 19 05:40:02 Can I install the drivers for the graphic's card without have the actual card inside the computer? Jun 19 05:40:16 having = have. Jun 19 05:43:40 Well, time for me to head out anyway. Jun 19 05:43:48 Thanks for all the help RST! Jun 19 05:44:04 You're a good person to do so! Jun 19 05:44:13 See ya. Jun 19 07:38:27 Hi ! Jun 19 07:41:20 morning all Jun 19 08:32:38 Can you make skype test calls from the maemo version? Jun 19 08:32:57 Ok, it's working now :) Jun 19 08:33:13 np Jun 19 08:34:03 Anyone on gizmo? I'd like to make a test call and see how it compares to Skype... :) Jun 19 08:36:37 No worries, gotta go eat Jun 19 08:48:40 does anybody know about gadget (gadgetfs) driver development on maemo/n810? Jun 19 08:53:29 hi all Jun 19 08:59:13 pekuja: what do you want to know? Jun 19 09:00:49 I have a quick Canola question Jun 19 09:01:03 well, the thing is, I've taken the usb.c example code and even that seems to work pretty unreliably Jun 19 09:01:22 I often get "device not accepting address" on the host side Jun 19 09:01:37 and sometimes the driver fails to receive any descriptor requests from the host Jun 19 09:01:55 I was downloading some podcasts via the que when I exited to use my processor for more important things. Now Canola will go through its loading process but will no longer display any navigation icons. Jun 19 09:02:04 pekuja: where is usb.c from? Jun 19 09:02:08 it seems like string descriptors are especially troublesome. I guess those use a different mechanism? Jun 19 09:02:16 trickie, http://www.linux-usb.org/gadget Jun 19 09:02:24 trickie, that's a gadgetfs app Jun 19 09:02:42 k, some of those docs are a bit out of date Jun 19 09:02:46 ill take a look Jun 19 09:02:55 one thing that came to mind is whether it's just a bad idea to be using gadgetfs at this point in time Jun 19 09:03:02 it's still "EXPERIMENTAL" in the kernel Jun 19 09:03:23 And that usb.c driver was literally the only code I could find that uses gadgetfs. Jun 19 09:03:45 I also couldn't find any documentation on it. Jun 19 09:04:07 There's some for the gadget framework in general, but not really anything for gadgetfs in particular. Jun 19 09:08:23 3A Jun 19 09:08:26 morning Jun 19 09:08:31 hey Jun 19 09:09:32 pekuja: i think the qemu emulator in the openmoko svn is using gadgetfs Jun 19 09:09:35 pekuja: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/usb-linux-gadget.c Jun 19 09:09:45 maybe some more info there, but i gotta run... work :( Jun 19 09:10:32 trickie, ok. thanks for the pointer! I'll take a look at that code :-) Jun 19 09:24:53 Oh, that's amusing Jun 19 09:25:52 After the Vodafone-branded firmware on my phone finally died this morning, I got around to reflashing it. Surprise surprise, the generic firmware is more functional. And bluetooth works without resorting to a (sometimes) working PAN Jun 19 09:27:12 and that reminds me of the fact, that in diablo the automatic disconnection of idle bluetooth-connection actually works Jun 19 09:27:19 and that is a good thing :) Jun 19 09:28:31 does anyone know if I can change the default I'm feeling lucky search at the address bar to some different site? yubnub for example Jun 19 09:29:05 ccooke > operators firmware have always problem Jun 19 09:29:42 ccooke > they ad their stupid application, and made custom setting that isn't very well tested and lock some setting Jun 19 09:30:04 macoute > it s work 's also in chinook Jun 19 09:30:16 the automatic bluetooth disconnection Jun 19 09:30:26 at least with my 6630 :) Jun 19 09:30:35 yeah, generally a phone only becomes useful after flashing with generic firmware Jun 19 09:30:53 specially one's modified by vodafone and orange Jun 19 09:31:48 orange like to replace a native s60 interface by their java interface, which slow down everything Jun 19 09:32:13 (that crash frequently) Jun 19 09:32:30 same on SE phones Jun 19 09:34:14 like their parental control on windows which eat 180Mo of RAM and permanently use 15% of a amd 4800+ cpu Jun 19 09:35:17 hey better gmail 2 plugin is really good for firefox ! Jun 19 09:35:54 Khertan: you mean on a pc? Jun 19 09:36:03 yes :) Jun 19 09:36:05 didn't know they had software for pc's Jun 19 09:36:33 * aquatix still thinks that real parental control is the best parental control Jun 19 09:36:38 hum ... i couldn't call this software ... but malware Jun 19 09:36:49 heh :) Jun 19 09:38:56 someone know if it s sbox2 in Maemo SDK VMWare Appliance, 0.6 ? Jun 19 09:46:04 How long have you had your batteries survive? Jun 19 09:46:32 I think mine is at the end of it's lfe Jun 19 09:46:58 s/lfe/life/ Jun 19 09:46:59 pyhimys meant: I think mine is at the end of it's life Jun 19 09:54:31 pyhimys> no prob with battery from my n810 Jun 19 09:54:43 but it s recent ... february :) Jun 19 09:56:26 Khertan: I've had mine for abt. 17 months now Jun 19 09:56:32 (n800) Jun 19 09:58:52 pyhimys: you couldn't have had it for too much longer ;-) Jun 19 09:59:07 true Jun 19 09:59:37 I ordered mine immediatly as they came available Jun 19 09:59:56 Khertan: not on my n810+e51 Jun 19 10:00:00 but now it does work Jun 19 10:00:18 It has an annoying habit of spontaneus reboots while charging. Jun 19 10:07:15 hello Jun 19 10:07:32 lcuk_: Thanks for the list, now just time to fill in the gaps Jun 19 10:18:47 Setting up base-files (3.1.osso2+3.1.10.osso16) ... Jun 19 10:18:47 /var/lib/dpkg/info/base-files.postinst: line 130: md5sum: not found Jun 19 10:19:13 heh... Nokia should force their developers to learn about deps? Jun 19 10:21:02 someone knows like compiling openvpn for a cpu arm? Jun 19 10:21:17 When I click on contacts, it shows all the contacts by default. Is there a way to make it show Online contacts only? Jun 19 10:21:24 Babbu: there exists openvpn packages. Jun 19 10:21:42 pyhimys: I had one goof recently with n810 that I thought it was a dead battery Jun 19 10:21:44 (I run openvpn on my n810 towards my home network) Jun 19 10:22:05 but it just seems that you cannot use just any Nokia charger with it. I was using a charger from my phone, and seems like that didn't work Jun 19 10:22:18 or not 'seems like', it obviously did not work Jun 19 10:22:38 I wonder if they have a warning about this in the manual which I never opened :P Jun 19 10:22:46 to me servants for a board of the atmel with cpu arm9 Jun 19 10:22:59 * timeless sighs Jun 19 10:23:16 hrw: file a bug in bugs.maemo.org Jun 19 10:23:49 timeless: diablo packages bugs are accepted before release? Jun 19 10:24:10 yes Jun 19 10:24:16 bugs are accepted when you file them Jun 19 10:24:19 ok Jun 19 10:24:21 we make no guarantees about when we fix them Jun 19 10:24:28 you can use version 4.1 for reporting it Jun 19 10:24:37 however if you can show the bug existed in the 4.0 package, all the better Jun 19 10:24:58 k Jun 19 10:25:39 Veggen : I can use the package also for my board? Jun 19 10:26:18 hmm. I suppose you can try grab a debian compiled package? Jun 19 10:27:09 in fact, I am trying to understand like compiling openvpn for arm Jun 19 10:27:29 timeless: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3265 Jun 19 10:28:13 I have the compiler, but the procedure lacks me:) Jun 19 10:28:43 hrw: um strange prod/comp Jun 19 10:28:50 try system software/something? Jun 19 10:29:41 ops - rgh Jun 19 10:30:40 registered for guadec! Jun 19 10:30:46 timeless: updated Jun 19 10:30:58 * hrw do not register for guadec Jun 19 10:37:54 hrw: bin/md5sum is in coreutils which is essential so not generally in deps :) Jun 19 10:38:18 so it's just another case of this flavor of busybox package pretending to provide things it doesn't Jun 19 10:38:21 Nokia-N810-51-3:/media/mmc2/APT# md5sum Jun 19 10:38:21 -sh: md5sum: not found Jun 19 10:38:32 sp3000: thats on n810 with os2008 fresh flashed Jun 19 10:39:05 sp3000: so please do not tell that it is essential... this is not Debian but maemo Jun 19 10:40:52 this is information, not an argument Jun 19 10:41:26 a dep on coreutils wouldn't help because of the bb--provides->coreutils Jun 19 10:41:36 sp3000: thats bug in maemo packages Jun 19 10:41:58 I reported it long time ago and it got 'we maybe fix it in Fremantle' Jun 19 10:42:33 busybox Provides: field in maemo is one big bug Jun 19 10:42:44 sure, it's a fun case Jun 19 10:42:51 lardman, in the daytime i miss lots of things in here (vnc refresh makes it painful to scrollback) Jun 19 10:43:32 lcuk_: ok, no worries Jun 19 10:43:37 dammit, reading the web while upgrading to hardy is difficult Jun 19 10:43:43 anyway, the quick list i built is giving me enough of an overview to see whats happening and required. theres an awful lot of cruft not required for a standard flow Jun 19 10:43:49 sp3000: heh Jun 19 10:43:50 sp3000: lot of stuff to fetch? Jun 19 10:43:56 my browser isn't inclued to paint text :) Jun 19 10:43:57 shit.. Jun 19 10:43:59 inclined even Jun 19 10:44:10 how to disable n810 watchdog? Jun 19 10:44:20 flasher. Jun 19 10:44:26 hrw, remove battery ;) Jun 19 10:44:43 Diablo upgrade is not possible with watchdog running - too much time Jun 19 10:45:51 from chinook? Jun 19 10:45:58 hrw: ah, sorry I forgot to tell you that one Jun 19 10:46:06 I suppose that's a lot of small writes Jun 19 10:46:23 anyway, lardman, ill carry on looking at these, im going to see what would be needed to actually getthe engine ticking over Jun 19 10:46:29 hrw: fwiw, you shouldn't need to include a comment when you change products Jun 19 10:47:06 back later Jun 19 10:47:08 timeless: good to know Jun 19 10:47:19 lcuk_: I'm going to look back over ph5's output, iirc he had some function definitions, which makes the random memory locations used in the asm a bit more understandable Jun 19 10:47:31 lardman: am I thinking about regenerating rootfs from Diablo packages and then flashing result Jun 19 10:47:57 hrw: sounds reasonable, I think qwerty did something simiilar Jun 19 10:49:05 lardman: I even have 51.2 rootfs unpacked Jun 19 10:49:09 51.3 Jun 19 10:49:52 Hi, I'm using scratchbox chinook to try and build qtopia for the N800 and I'm getting "sem_timedwait returned error( 38 : Function not implemented )" in "make install" can anyone offer any advice? Jun 19 10:49:53 is that the latest chinook one? Jun 19 10:50:18 yes Jun 19 10:50:37 mounting jffs2 is a pita Jun 19 10:52:11 really? Jun 19 10:53:38 too many steps, hard for me to remember :) Jun 19 10:57:44 there is 'dump.jffs2' in mtd-utils Jun 19 10:59:27 hrw: ah, I'll remember that one, cheers Jun 19 10:59:53 hrw: Or just write the steps down somewhere, rather than having to do a web search every time :) Jun 19 11:28:11 Hi ! Jun 19 11:28:26 is there a problem with maemo extras devel Jun 19 11:28:37 i get permission denied on ssh Jun 19 11:31:07 hum it s ok now Jun 19 11:31:10 strange Jun 19 11:35:12 btw, http://chandlerproject.org/Projects/LogoUseGuidelines#[insert%20graphic%20here]%20is%20our%20log is worth a read Jun 19 11:37:56 http://maemo.org/midcom-permalink-b49b167e3dea11ddab11453d2c197e097e09 Jun 19 11:38:24 bye Jun 19 11:41:02 ooo Jun 19 11:44:25 chandler project ? someone have already try to use it ? or using it ? Jun 19 11:44:49 Khertan: which project? Jun 19 11:45:01 it s like lotus notes ... many features ... ugly gui Jun 19 11:45:23 the one application which timeless is speaking about Jun 19 11:45:38 chandlerproject.org Jun 19 12:04:54 hi all! Jun 19 12:07:19 my goodness. good morning. ?) Jun 19 12:08:38 it evening Jun 19 12:08:47 it isevening Jun 19 12:09:37 Hello, does anybody know if the 8GB limit for the miniSD card of the N810 a hardware or a OS limitation? Jun 19 12:09:49 os, afaik Jun 19 12:09:56 might not be limited at that anyways Jun 19 12:10:27 Prolly will work if you just make some neat kernel hack Jun 19 12:11:14 rdorsch, glass, it's neither. Jun 19 12:11:35 It's a "what Nokia has tested the device with" limit Jun 19 12:30:15 GeneralAntilles: Hmm learnt some new wiki speak because of you ;) Thanks. Jun 19 12:30:29 Hmm? Jun 19 12:30:50 GeneralAntilles: The quotation thing. Jun 19 12:30:55 Oh, haha. Jun 19 12:31:07 Another template gleefully stolen from wikipedia. Jun 19 12:31:17 I wish they had a plugin or template dump or something. Jun 19 12:31:24 ping Jun 19 12:31:31 does maemo mapper really not have a logo/icon? Jun 19 12:31:36 It does. Jun 19 12:31:41 Do you have the application installed? :P Jun 19 12:31:43 url? Jun 19 12:31:52 um, on my 770? yes Jun 19 12:31:58 can i find that? no... it's at home :) Jun 19 12:32:14 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/customavatars/avatar437_1.gif :D Jun 19 12:32:33 http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/maemo-mapper/trunk/data/icons/scalable/maemo-mapper.png ? Jun 19 12:32:43 Yes Jun 19 12:33:37 can you do me a favor? :) Jun 19 12:33:56 run through http://www.ohloh.net/tags/maemo and assign logos to things :) Jun 19 12:34:16 Do I have to create an account first? Jun 19 12:34:21 yes :) Jun 19 12:34:52 conveniently, most of the logos can be retrieved from mxr.maemo.org/garage :) Jun 19 12:37:02 X-Fade, any progress on integrating the mediawiki into maemo.org proper? The current logo is whitespace hell. :P Jun 19 12:37:42 bump! does anyone know if I can change the default I'm feeling lucky search at the address bar to some different site? yubnub for example Jun 19 12:37:59 ustunozgur: it's a pref, about:config Jun 19 12:38:06 use firefox docs for moreinfo Jun 19 12:39:36 timeless, yes but couldn't find the related entry. filtered with "google" Jun 19 12:40:45 about:config?sprefname=keyword.URL Jun 19 12:40:57 ok, thank you. Jun 19 12:41:05 how hard did you look? Jun 19 12:41:27 GeneralAntilles: You mean the template? Jun 19 12:42:06 i.e. changing the wiki.maemo.org setup so it integrates properly with maemo.org. Jun 19 12:42:52 GeneralAntilles: You need to be more specific? :) Jun 19 12:43:37 Well, a few weeks ago we discussed changing the wiki theme to use the maemo.org header (like http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page but not shitty ;)). Jun 19 12:44:01 http://ohloh ... is it new ? Jun 19 12:44:29 no Jun 19 12:45:08 don't know it Jun 19 12:47:20 Ok I changed keyword.URL to http://yubnub.org/parser/parse?command= to make yubnub the default search engine, in case if anyone is interested. It defaults to google, and you can make keyword search (like wi abc for searching abc on wikipedia) Jun 19 12:48:02 GeneralAntilles: Yes, I could do that. If I wasn't swamped at the moment.. Jun 19 12:48:18 Ah, right-o. ;) Jun 19 12:48:26 * GeneralAntilles shovels more TODOs onto X-Fade. Jun 19 12:48:26 GeneralAntilles: But really, it is on my todo list. Jun 19 12:48:49 GeneralAntilles: Did you file a bug about that already? :) Jun 19 12:49:13 About you not having enough TODOs or about a new layout for the wiki? :P Jun 19 12:49:14 No. Jun 19 12:49:15 I will, though. Jun 19 12:49:41 GeneralAntilles: Thanks, that way bugzilla will remind me too. Jun 19 12:50:36 * timeless grumbles Jun 19 12:50:38 http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/pluthon/trunk/help/html/gettingstarted/ Jun 19 12:50:41 pluthon7.PNG Jun 19 12:50:44 who names a file .PNG Jun 19 12:51:07 timeless: A Windows user ;) Jun 19 12:51:09 some clueless imaging program Jun 19 12:51:12 like paint Jun 19 12:51:17 X-Fade: beat me to it :) Jun 19 12:52:36 anyway, fixed in my next push Jun 19 12:52:58 * timeless tries to find pluthon's icon Jun 19 12:53:00 timeless, if I've got a 64x54 will it be scaled to 64x64? Jun 19 12:53:10 yeah Jun 19 12:53:16 * GeneralAntilles pads. Jun 19 12:53:17 i'd recommend using mspaint and recentering Jun 19 12:54:33 * timeless fixes something else too Jun 19 12:55:09 * timeless finds the pluthon logo Jun 19 12:57:34 http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/find?string=weath.*png&tree=garage&hint= Jun 19 12:57:39 searching for hay in a haystack Jun 19 12:57:52 http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/omweather/trunk/omweather/data/omweather.png Jun 19 12:57:55 is that the logo? Jun 19 13:04:59 morning all Jun 19 13:05:25 re Jun 19 13:05:25 i have a few questions that I would like to ask about compiling drivers for the n810 Jun 19 13:05:36 hi biggatings Jun 19 13:05:42 hrw: wb Jun 19 13:06:10 first: i compiled using the latest source recieved from the garage page. Jun 19 13:06:29 but when i attempt to insmod i get the following error: Jun 19 13:06:48 Invalid module format (-1) : Exec format error Jun 19 13:06:56 anyone have any suggestions? Jun 19 13:07:35 wrong compiler? Jun 19 13:08:11 i dont know. i am compiling exactly the same way as for the 800 Jun 19 13:08:26 but for some reason the 810 is slightly different Jun 19 13:08:36 * timeless sees someone is making progress through http://www.ohloh.net/tags/maemo Jun 19 13:08:38 even the directory structure is different Jun 19 13:09:48 hey guys, take a look: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=193467#post193467 Jun 19 13:10:04 timeless, the things I do for you. ;) Jun 19 13:12:52 any ideas? Jun 19 13:15:35 biggatings: did you follow http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-0-x/kernel_guide_for_maemo.html#compilingmodules ? Jun 19 13:16:18 biggatings: did you build your modules in scratchbox? Jun 19 13:19:54 yes i followed the guide and i compiled in scratch box Jun 19 13:26:31 * timeless sighs Jun 19 13:32:06 biggatings: did you make sure you had the scratchbox 'profile' thingy set to ARM? Jun 19 13:33:36 yeah Jun 19 13:33:45 it is set to ARMEL Jun 19 13:42:21 are you actually running the latest kernel? Jun 19 13:42:27 ah he's gone Jun 19 13:51:43 sp3000: apt doesn't like me Jun 19 13:53:26 E: Unable to parse package file armel_Packages (1) Jun 19 13:53:29 E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened. Jun 19 13:54:32 http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/06/atari-7800-1.jpg Jun 19 13:54:35 hohohoho Jun 19 14:02:28 ok Jun 19 14:02:31 someone *broke* apt Jun 19 14:10:25 Hmm.. I got a 10 WH battery - anyone able to tell me how much A & V the charging needs for this device? Jun 19 14:11:23 Are 5V / 350 mA (taken from the charger, if I'm correct) right? Jun 19 14:11:44 about Jun 19 14:11:55 my charger is 5v/890ma Jun 19 14:12:16 Although the possibility is remote, I spoke to a guy in here about his E51 and SIP on it the other day - don't support you're still here? Jun 19 14:12:24 *suppose Jun 19 14:15:33 Naked, you about Jun 19 14:24:59 Atarii: ping Jun 19 14:27:19 peterpen: yes Jun 19 14:29:20 Naked, Hi :P I got my E51 and its fantastic (the silver one) and I've got it working with my SIP phone system too Jun 19 14:29:45 peterpen: that's great! Jun 19 14:30:03 I made three accounts on 'SIP Settings' one for use with 3G, one for WiFi at work, one for WiFi at home (but ultimately same connection details Jun 19 14:30:15 And then made on 'Internet Tel.' one profile with them all ticket Jun 19 14:30:40 Naked, I was wondering if you knew how to get the phone to prefer to use WiFI when it can get it - over 3G when possible Jun 19 14:32:44 peterpen: well, that is a bit tricky - I don't think you can automatically get it to give preferences like that Jun 19 14:33:33 peterpen: though... I would've configured the thing with just one SIP account and one SIP profile with 3G as default - and then switch the access point on the fly when wanting to use it in a WLAN environment via the Internet Tel. option in Connections Jun 19 14:34:09 You mean 'SIP Settings' 'Access Point' right? Jun 19 14:34:36 peterpen: no, I mean 'Connectivity' 'Internet Tel.' Jun 19 14:34:50 you can't choose access point in that menu Jun 19 14:35:46 peterpen: hmh, I managed to use that at some point at least... Jun 19 14:36:11 Ultimately you are right anyway... it would be a bit daft if my phone roamed onto wifi and off again onto 3g everytime it came near disconnecting me from any conversation I was on Jun 19 14:36:59 peterpen: yeah - using WiFi is okay if I know I'm going to be near the access point for the whole conversation - or if I'm not in a 3G zone Jun 19 14:37:00 Naked, you probably had two SIP Profiles (one for wifi, and one 3g) and ticked/unticked the profiles in 'Internet Tel.' Jun 19 14:37:36 Well so far I haven't had much luck getting HSDPA signal... and normal WCDMA 3G isn't good quality Jun 19 14:37:37 peterpen: well, actually now, I managed to connect my profile to wlan access point just now - atleast I think I managed to do that Jun 19 14:37:47 theres about a 7 second delay in what is said to come through :( Jun 19 14:37:53 wifi is fine tho Jun 19 14:38:06 ouch... Jun 19 14:38:40 'three' said HSDPA would be dodgy where I live but at work shouldn't be bad at all - I beg to differ Jun 19 14:38:50 peterpen: I get around the same delay as with WiFi over 3G Jun 19 14:39:08 they are building new transmitters in April anyway... so I'll wait, at least I found a network who doesn't mind VoIP and gives real broadband access on a phone Jun 19 14:39:25 wifi is perfect for me, no delay Jun 19 14:40:08 peterpen: what kind of pings you get in modem usage? Jun 19 14:40:29 not sure lemme browse to whatismyip.com or something on it Jun 19 14:40:52 I get around 300ms pings over 3G Jun 19 14:41:50 ~150ms on HSDPA here. Jun 19 14:41:54 I'm not even getting a reply Jun 19 14:43:22 i get 150ms Jun 19 14:43:28 about Jun 19 14:43:32 when it's working right Jun 19 14:44:30 * aquatix is jealous Jun 19 14:44:40 i get 600ms iirc on gprs Jun 19 14:45:49 I just get request timed out lol Jun 19 14:45:52 thats pretty high Jun 19 14:46:00 gprs 300-400ms for me Jun 19 14:46:19 timeless, all the logos I currently feel like doing are done. I have one for Mamona that needs to be hacked up a bit, and know where to get one for Tapioca, but may not actually ever get around to it. Jun 19 14:47:54 Naked, I noticed there is Putty for Symbian, couldn't get it installed tho - have you got an SSH client on yours? Jun 19 14:48:29 I wonder how I could 'ping' from an E51 :P Jun 19 14:48:33 'Ping for Symbian' lol Jun 19 14:49:00 300 gprs is pretty good actually Jun 19 14:49:00 i know quite a few people who use the s60 putty Jun 19 14:49:07 400-500 is more commn Jun 19 14:49:13 common Jun 19 14:50:20 glass, I have an inkling it won't work with an E51 Jun 19 14:50:33 There is a self-signed S60V3 version of Putty. Jun 19 14:50:42 (It means no hacks, boys ;)) Jun 19 14:50:44 yes but do I need S60v4 for that? Jun 19 14:50:52 *v3 Jun 19 14:50:58 s60 3rd ed Jun 19 14:51:02 E51 is S60V3 iirc Jun 19 14:51:08 peterpen: it should work Jun 19 14:51:17 peterpen: as long as you get the 3rd ed version Jun 19 14:51:28 oh yeah, you know I tried that and it wouldn't install Jun 19 14:51:32 and have the settings on appmanager that it will install selfsigned stuff Jun 19 14:51:43 some fw's have it off by default Jun 19 14:51:44 the PGP file? Jun 19 14:51:49 right Jun 19 14:51:49 Eh# Jun 19 14:52:23 eh pgp? Jun 19 14:52:25 glass, Do you know if the N-Gage platform was released for E51? Jun 19 14:52:26 X-Fade, ping. Jun 19 14:52:33 qwerty12: afaik no Jun 19 14:52:35 GeneralAntilles: Pong Jun 19 14:52:37 Not E51, E90 Jun 19 14:52:44 Ah, ok thanks Jun 19 14:52:49 qwerty12: it would probably run if installed though Jun 19 14:53:06 Should I go ahead and assign my mediawiki integration bug to you? Jun 19 14:53:39 Hmm, I'd have to look into that. I know the phones are hacked and I could extract the sisx myself but I don't want to buy a phone and find out it doesn't work, otherwise, I may as well get N95 :) Jun 19 14:53:50 GeneralAntilles: Yes, poor Ferenc has enough tasks for now ;) Jun 19 14:53:56 Hehe Jun 19 14:54:21 qwerty12: ngage platform definetely shouldn't be your choosing point Jun 19 14:54:36 I used to have an N-Gage and I liked the games :) Jun 19 14:54:41 qwerty12: other criteria like form factor should decide if you get e90 or not Jun 19 14:54:57 qwerty12: plenty of games for e90 Jun 19 14:55:05 qwerty12: e90 has best s60 screen too Jun 19 14:55:15 qwerty12: and the 3d hw Jun 19 15:02:19 glass, I had to turn off the 'always self sign' thing and then it installed Jun 19 15:02:43 That's mentioned in the install notes. Jun 19 15:02:53 hi Jun 19 15:03:02 hi Jun 19 15:03:19 couldn't install aspicore ping to do a ping tho as its for s60v2 Jun 19 15:03:36 can't wait until the N810/N830 WiMax comes to the UK - no more phones :) Jun 19 15:04:05 There's no such thing as an "N830". :) Jun 19 15:04:08 Are there any way to get the N800 (OS2008) to act as a BT headset for a phone ? Jun 19 15:04:17 I'll always need a phone :) but the N800 has replaced my P1i though. Jun 19 15:04:24 GeneralAntilles, a marketing poster used that term :P Jun 19 15:04:32 No it didn't Jun 19 15:04:34 It was a 1 Jun 19 15:04:34 qwerty12: can i have your p1i? Jun 19 15:04:55 GeneralAntilles, http://mobilarena.hu/dl/new/2008-02/33592_n830.jpg Jun 19 15:04:56 it's a 3 Jun 19 15:05:12 aquatix, I gave it to my sister :/ Jun 19 15:05:53 aww Jun 19 15:05:56 Walkman 3.0 was nice on it though. Jun 19 15:06:00 * aquatix awaits the p5 Jun 19 15:06:06 i have the m600i now Jun 19 15:06:20 completely replaced my palm Jun 19 15:06:27 certainly in combo with the n810 Jun 19 15:06:33 There was a lot of discussion about it on itT Jun 19 15:06:38 Either way, the N830 doesn't exist. Jun 19 15:06:50 indeed Jun 19 15:06:58 it's just the n810 wimax edition Jun 19 15:07:00 It's the "Nokia N810 Internet Tablet WiMAX Edition" Jun 19 15:07:06 'xactly Jun 19 15:07:08 That's quite a mouthful. Jun 19 15:07:14 N810W Jun 19 15:07:18 hop hop .... mCalendar 0.2.1 uploaded to extras-devel Jun 19 15:08:01 hm :) Jun 19 15:08:08 * aquatix will install mcalendar when back home Jun 19 15:08:15 this is still alpha :) Jun 19 15:08:20 backup your google agenda Jun 19 15:08:36 * aquatix barely uses the google agenda Jun 19 15:08:45 i have all my stuff on my m600i Jun 19 15:08:52 still need to find a reliable way of synching Jun 19 15:09:33 * aquatix goes home Jun 19 15:09:49 MyPhoneExplorer worked a little bit with my P1i. In beta and was slow but it did backup my contacts fine. Jun 19 15:10:04 * Khertan is looking at his things to do ... too many things ... mContact (with google sync) ... fixing pypackager to make clean packet ... bug fix on mCalendar ... Jun 19 15:10:48 ... add some features to pygtkeditor ... Jun 19 15:24:44 GeneralAntilles: Be sure to include some of your mockups ;) Jun 19 15:25:56 lol Jun 19 15:26:01 Can't get anything past you, can I? :P Jun 19 15:26:37 GeneralAntilles: That second monitor really helps :) Jun 19 15:26:56 * GeneralAntilles has 4 woo! Jun 19 15:27:19 4 monitors? Jun 19 15:27:21 wow Jun 19 15:27:28 lucky Jun 19 15:27:33 * aquatix has two at work, 1 large one at home Jun 19 15:27:41 Great productivity boost. Jun 19 15:27:45 * Zmiko_ has 1.5 Jun 19 15:27:51 Only 2 24's here. And ofcourse the laptop. Jun 19 15:28:00 * aquatix has a 30" at home :P Jun 19 15:28:04 Well, the 4th one with IRC is probably a productivity reducer, actually. Jun 19 15:28:08 * Proteous has 3 7/8ths Jun 19 15:28:10 i don't count a 12" as a whole monity Jun 19 15:28:13 * aquatix does a little nana-bigger-than-yours dance Jun 19 15:28:23 Mine are relatively small, two 20" and two 19". Jun 19 15:28:35 Zmiko_: :) Jun 19 15:28:41 But it's nice for compartmentalizing things. Jun 19 15:29:06 yeah, you don't want stuff on one monitor to infect the stuff on the other monitors Jun 19 15:29:11 Well, I can do my work on 2 because they are 1920x1200. Enough space for now.. Jun 19 15:29:11 indeed Jun 19 15:31:20 * aquatix hugs his 2560x1600 Jun 19 15:31:26 anyways Jun 19 15:31:26 GeneralAntilles: how have you got them arranged? Jun 19 15:31:28 gone home Jun 19 15:31:40 GeneralAntilles: I always thought that with >3 I'd have to go up as well as along Jun 19 15:32:07 lardman|afk, http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/setupfeb08.jpg Jun 19 15:32:30 whoa Jun 19 15:32:43 that looks extremely geeky Jun 19 15:32:47 * aquatix wants Jun 19 15:33:04 draging and dropping must use quite some brain power! :) Jun 19 15:33:08 Hehe Jun 19 15:33:13 I lose the mouse pointer every once and a while. Jun 19 15:33:14 GeneralAntilles: Well, it helps in preventing to sit too long in the same position ;) Jun 19 15:33:16 thta QWAOMW Jun 19 15:33:21 thats awesome Jun 19 15:33:22 oops Jun 19 15:33:27 Hehe Jun 19 15:33:33 http://www.skibur.com Jun 19 15:33:41 I paid less than $200 for the non-Apple monitors, so it's not too expensive, either. Jun 19 15:33:44 I will add my N800 hacks Jun 19 15:33:45 :D Jun 19 15:33:47 enjoy Jun 19 15:33:49 you can save energy and neck strain with virtual desktops Jun 19 15:34:07 lcdd, meh, not really. Jun 19 15:34:25 Having to bounce over to the IRC desktop to check would be a pain Jun 19 15:34:34 and having to bounce back and forth between, say, the code and the browser. Jun 19 15:34:37 No thanks. Jun 19 15:34:52 I do have iTunes and Mail in virtual desktops right now, though. Jun 19 15:35:00 it's faster than refocusing eyes elsewhere Jun 19 15:35:17 For you, maybe. Jun 19 15:35:21 Personally, this works for me. :) Jun 19 15:37:11 19" was kinda confined but one now with one 24" monitor i don't see the need for another Jun 19 15:37:18 what size are they? Jun 19 15:37:26 2x19" and 2x20" Jun 19 15:37:29 unless there are more machines Jun 19 15:37:46 I have one 20" and no space for other Jun 19 15:37:58 i dpm Jun 19 15:38:05 s/one // Jun 19 15:38:09 I don't have the money for another Jun 19 15:38:13 is there a good master list of decent repositories out there for the n800? Jun 19 15:38:24 Tenkawa, Extras and Extras-devel. Jun 19 15:38:31 gronmayer Jun 19 15:38:37 yeah.. got those already Jun 19 15:38:37 Maybe throw FBReader and nitapps.com in there. Jun 19 15:38:51 first time I booted this thing in about 3 months Jun 19 15:38:55 Speaking of which, has anybody poked ag2 about closing down his repo? Jun 19 15:39:09 so Ifigured I'd see if theres any new ones out there that are any good Jun 19 15:39:10 * X-Fade bangs his head on the table everytime somebody asks for a list of repositories... NOOOOO.. Jun 19 15:39:20 X-Fade: why? Jun 19 15:39:28 whats so bad about it? Jun 19 15:39:40 X-Fade, if I can get FBReader and nitapps.com into Extras, I can stick to pushing just Extras(-devel). ;) Jun 19 15:39:44 I try to reduce the need for multiple repositories ;) Jun 19 15:39:58 X-Fade: ok thats a dam* good reason Jun 19 15:40:09 I thought it would be for something else Jun 19 15:40:16 Still no progress here: http://fbreader.org/mantis/view.php?id=108 Jun 19 15:40:18 ok, next attempt to diablo upgrade Jun 19 15:40:21 Anyway, dinner time. bbl. Jun 19 15:40:23 Somebody needs to e-mail them or something. Jun 19 15:40:48 is there likely to even be a 3rd os2008 release or a os2009 release at all? Jun 19 15:41:16 argh.. Jun 19 15:41:30 my n810 does not charge enough Jun 19 15:41:32 Tenkawa, there wont be an OS2009 release. ;) It'll be Maemo 5. Jun 19 15:41:41 ah Jun 19 15:41:45 Diablo is coming out in a few weeks. Jun 19 15:41:54 doh... I have extras. but not extras-devel Jun 19 15:41:55 We're pretty sure it'll be the last OS2008 update. Jun 19 15:42:12 does the maemo.org site have the repos setup info? Jun 19 15:42:18 for that app catalog Jun 19 15:43:20 Just go on gronmayer and add it from there Jun 19 15:43:42 argh Jun 19 15:46:39 whoa, what's with the new wiki start page? Jun 19 15:47:46 What about it? Jun 19 15:47:55 It doesn't have many things on it Jun 19 15:48:16 We're just getting started. ;) Jun 19 15:48:48 shall I add http://wiki.maemo.org/Questions_for_Nokia? Jun 19 15:50:06 thanks all Jun 19 15:50:08 cheers Jun 19 15:50:15 lardman, sounds like a plan. http://wiki.maemo.org/Template:Community Jun 19 15:50:56 * lardman confused about how to even add a useful sentence Jun 19 15:51:27 GeneralAntilles: your bug raport has one major issue - if that "bug" is solved, why dont we add all the possible other program to extras as well? Jun 19 15:51:47 macoute, which bug? Jun 19 15:52:16 GeneralAntilles: the fbreader to extras-bug Jun 19 15:52:33 weird... does initfs_flash fail univerally for the n810? Jun 19 15:52:40 macoute, all Maemo programs should be added to Extras(-devel) Jun 19 15:52:48 i havent used (only tested) fbreader, but in general i think that officially maintained repos should only contain very well maintained progs Jun 19 15:52:52 I'm just focusing on one program at a time. ;) Jun 19 15:52:55 GeneralAntilles: not at all, imo Jun 19 15:53:04 FBReader is maintained very well. Jun 19 15:53:10 GeneralAntilles: they dont have all the linux apps in debian repos, do they? Jun 19 15:53:17 fbreader rocks Jun 19 15:53:17 and Extras isn't official maintained, it's a community repo. Jun 19 15:53:25 I'm trying to run the script but /dev/mtdblock3 won't mount Jun 19 15:53:26 GeneralAntilles: but near official Jun 19 15:53:28 s/official/officially/ Jun 19 15:53:28 GeneralAntilles meant: and Extras isn't officially maintained, it's a community repo. Jun 19 15:53:37 also, I cannot insmod anything :/ Jun 19 15:53:41 crashmatrix: no it doesnt ffail Jun 19 15:53:42 Besides, that's what Extras-devel is for. Jun 19 15:53:54 For stuff under development. Jun 19 15:54:43 /tpo/topic Jun 19 15:54:44 anyone any idea's why mtdblock3 (initfs) won't mount btw? Jun 19 15:54:45 Where's the help page....? Jun 19 15:54:51 lardman, for? Jun 19 15:54:59 Adding urls for example Jun 19 15:55:01 macoute, how familiar are you with the whole repository issue and maemo? Jun 19 15:55:16 crashmatrix, Maybe because it's already and always mounted ;) Jun 19 15:55:17 lardman, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet Jun 19 15:55:26 GeneralAntilles: pretty familiar in general, not that familiar with extras policy Jun 19 15:55:48 qwerty12: that's a negative, only block 4 is mounted atm Jun 19 15:55:56 Check /mnt/initfs. Jun 19 15:56:00 only a few weeks for diablo ? Jun 19 15:56:16 macoute, the problem we have now is very apparent if you load up gronmayer.com/it Jun 19 15:56:27 hum ... i must hurry up to update pypackager Jun 19 15:56:29 There are too many repositories being opened up for no good reason. Jun 19 15:56:35 qwerty12: is mounted from /dev/root Jun 19 15:56:36 This negatively impacts user experience. Jun 19 15:56:44 GeneralAntilles: how familiar are you with the repositories in linux in general? :) Jun 19 15:56:52 macoute, just browse around itT for a bit to see all the users who have been turned off because of the repository mess. Jun 19 15:56:59 GeneralAntilles> it was open up for good reason ... uploading to extras was a real pain Jun 19 15:57:01 GeneralAntilles: that is the issue in all the repositories in general Jun 19 15:57:03 macoute, not very, I don't use Linux. Jun 19 15:57:09 (and i insist on "was") Jun 19 15:57:15 GeneralAntilles: Ok thanks, can we have something maemo.org specific, a link or something? Jun 19 15:57:34 GeneralAntilles: how messed up they would be if the progs they download from the repos that are shipped with their tablet would crash frequently? Jun 19 15:57:56 macoute, I think you need to do some reading up on the issue. ;) Jun 19 15:58:23 macoute > this why there is extras and extras-devel Jun 19 15:58:24 I'd like a single repo. Why? Because the application manager shits out with many. Jun 19 15:58:33 There are two repos that should be used Extras, which is where good packages that wont crash your system should go, and Extra-devel, where the alpha and beta stuff should go. Jun 19 15:58:38 Khertan: we are talking about extras :) Jun 19 15:58:40 one point to qwerty12 :) Jun 19 15:58:47 macoute > ok sorry Jun 19 15:58:51 macoute, Extras == Extras(-devel). Jun 19 15:59:28 GeneralAntilles: yeah, so only one repo for community maintained apps? Jun 19 15:59:45 GeneralAntilles: one "official" community maintained, to be more exact Jun 19 16:00:51 macoute, http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Consolidation_of_extras http://wiki.maemo.org/Diablo_extras_repository_proposal http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras_repository_process_definition Jun 19 16:00:57 macoute: One repo for known-good community apps, one repo for testing community apps; no other repos. Jun 19 16:01:05 if possible Jun 19 16:01:11 macoute, I'm kinda in the middle of something right now, and don't really have time to try and explain this to you. :) Jun 19 16:01:48 GeneralAntilles: theres no need for you to explain anything as i know what im talking about :) Jun 19 16:02:01 and your links showed that to me in the first sight Jun 19 16:02:22 Nokia: There are many applications that would increase the wealth of our product, but me must guaranty * Ease of use * Quality (and i would also add) * Security Jun 19 16:02:38 so we just can't have only one or two repos Jun 19 16:02:45 yes, why is that troubling you? Jun 19 16:03:36 we need one for the latest, stable, known-good progs, one for the latest versions of these same apss (which can crash and be in the middle of development) and one for crappy/development software Jun 19 16:03:42 thats a minimum imo Jun 19 16:04:13 ok, well it's not far off what is planned Jun 19 16:04:24 pinning is not very user-friendly, you see Jun 19 16:04:30 lardman: oki. :) Jun 19 16:05:12 lardman: my original point was the fbreader-case. i think that GeneralAntilles's bug report was not complete as he just said that "this is an application for maemo, lets put it to extras" Jun 19 16:05:34 so you effectively think we should have stable, testing & unstable? Jun 19 16:05:52 macoute: yes, I think "extras" has come to mean somewhere in the whole lot Jun 19 16:06:19 lardman: yeah, i think that is a good way to maintain repos Jun 19 16:06:49 lardman: i come from debian ;) Jun 19 16:07:00 I'm not sure that there's so much software that 3 repos are needed Jun 19 16:07:10 macoute: I'd assumed as much :) Jun 19 16:07:47 I dunno, to me, testing and unstable are the same thing. Which equals -devel. Jun 19 16:07:58 same here Jun 19 16:08:26 Remember, we have only one version of each os. (Well, kinda) Jun 19 16:08:44 qwerty12: but do you think that in -extras we should have ALL the possible maemo software around? Jun 19 16:09:15 it means also my 15-line-of-code clock applet would go to extras-devel Jun 19 16:09:37 macoute, no, and that was never my point. Jun 19 16:09:45 shouldnt we have a place for that software too? (as these can develop into a good software) Jun 19 16:09:50 Why not, I'd put the working, stable software in Extras, the unstable, beta stuff in -devel and move it to Extras when finished. Jun 19 16:10:09 Stuff like the Hebrew input methods that can quite easily break the system should have its own repo. Jun 19 16:10:15 GeneralAntilles: yeah, i know. and fbreader seemed a pretty good and stable software. but im talking in general Jun 19 16:10:21 But MOST stuff should go into Extras. Jun 19 16:10:25 GeneralAntilles: that is testing :) Jun 19 16:10:25 and FBReader is one of these things. Jun 19 16:10:40 They SHOULDN'T be opening up their own repositories. Jun 19 16:11:10 yeah, of course own repo for every software is not a good thing :) Jun 19 16:11:22 That was exactly my point. Jun 19 16:11:27 Which you seemed to want to argue with Jun 19 16:11:33 Thus my irritation. Jun 19 16:13:15 GeneralAntilles: im sorry if i irritated you, my point was not to argue, but show you that there are other sides in this case but only the need to get a lot software easily available to end-users Jun 19 16:13:45 Sides that I'm largely already aware of. :) Jun 19 16:14:04 Which was why I recommended reading up on it. Jun 19 16:14:18 and in OSS you can't really stop people maintaining as much repos as they want Jun 19 16:14:40 No, but you can discourage them from doing that and provide lots of incentive to use the centralized repos. Jun 19 16:15:06 now i can show you actually one really good example why we can't have just 2 repos Jun 19 16:15:23 http://antimirov.blogspot.com/2008/06/maemo-mapper-yandex-maps.html Jun 19 16:15:40 where would you add that maemo mapper version ^ Jun 19 16:15:57 "May be in a few days I'll test and polish what I got now and create special .deb package for Yandex-only mapper" Jun 19 16:16:42 awhat is Ynadex? Jun 19 16:16:45 Yandex* Jun 19 16:16:52 as it is very likely that in some days/weeks/months that "fork" is again a part of maemo mapper. Jun 19 16:17:11 summatusmentis: It's a mapping service for Eastern Eurpoe friom the looks of it Jun 19 16:17:19 lardman: oh Jun 19 16:17:21 summatusmentis, Russian web portal iirc from the time I spent on Russian sites Jun 19 16:17:24 but while it isnt, it really cant be in extras but it can be really useful for some people AND stable Jun 19 16:17:41 macoute: well it can live in devel then.. Jun 19 16:17:41 qwerty12: what are you doing on russian sites? Jun 19 16:17:54 it cant be in extras-devel either, as there lays the dev-version of maemomapper Jun 19 16:18:22 macoute: they have different names Jun 19 16:18:24 presumably Jun 19 16:18:36 summatusmentis, Stuff for me phone. Anything I didn't understand, I'd give to a friend to translate (after trying google). Plus they know a shitload bout some hardcore computer hacking stuff. Jun 19 16:18:59 intriguing Jun 19 16:19:18 well, that was just my 2 cents which growed up to at least 5 euro bill Jun 19 16:19:25 :) Jun 19 16:20:15 macoute: I think the point is that it will make things better; it may not be ideal, but let's see how it goes and we can modify with that experience Jun 19 16:20:28 GeneralAntilles, fbreader has its own repo because its available for different distros isnt it? Jun 19 16:21:05 lcuk_, their maemo repository is just a maemo repository. Jun 19 16:21:15 ie from their perspective having it on their own servers for each distro type makes sense Jun 19 16:21:36 lcuk_: I think it was just easier for the developer Jun 19 16:21:43 i 100% see the need for us having it in extras, but who is going to keep it updated? Jun 19 16:22:18 lcuk_: It shouldn't be a problem really, the code should compile, just throw it at the autobuilder and if it doesn't build take 5min to fix Jun 19 16:22:21 its refreshed and maintained often and new releases, can extras do automatic update checking? Jun 19 16:23:08 lardman, i know the autobuilder will do it, but someone has to push the update into extras itself - after this initial push wont it get forgotten? or can extras itself poll the remote repos to check for updates? Jun 19 16:23:37 ive seen fbreader push 2/3 updates in a single day Jun 19 16:23:44 Fbreader uses it's own libbz2 as well, would -dev packages be allowed to be installed on the autobuilder? Jun 19 16:24:04 qwerty12, you upload it to Extras and it'll grab the dependency. Jun 19 16:24:19 eh, extras shouldnt update on a daily basis never Jun 19 16:24:21 lcuk_: If someone took the time to update it once a week I'm sure it would not bother most people Jun 19 16:24:25 not even weekly basis, i think Jun 19 16:24:40 i dunno, this is what im asking you lot : i know nothing about packaging but just think getting one version and letting it go stale wont be great.. fbreader people will just end up recommending maemo folks add the fbreader repo for latest updates Jun 19 16:24:41 GeneralAntilles, Ah, nice, thanks for clearing that up. Jun 19 16:24:52 macoute: I disagree, if the packages are not fresh, people will look elsewhere Jun 19 16:25:11 lardman: yeah, from the testing/unstable Jun 19 16:25:22 lardman :) one fbreader update broke totally my text reading whilst it left people with other ebook formats working.... 1 week would make me pull my hair out Jun 19 16:25:29 lcuk_, new FBReader version comes out, FBReader devs upload it and the new libz to autobuilder and it gets pushed to Extras. Jun 19 16:25:31 but the normal user, who wants his apps to be stable doesnt want untested patches to his software everyday Jun 19 16:25:34 macoute: depends how much one needs to do to go from -devel to extras proper Jun 19 16:25:52 macoute: he needn't upgrade Jun 19 16:26:04 macoute: but not untested patches I agree Jun 19 16:26:07 bye Jun 19 16:26:09 back soon.. Jun 19 16:26:20 lardman: and the testing takes more than a day, right? Jun 19 16:26:34 macoute: I have no idea :) Jun 19 16:26:53 i think fbreader version x.xx should be in extras, but version x.xx+1 should be in -devel and be frequently updated Jun 19 16:27:30 mplayer works like that Jun 19 16:27:32 and at some point we get a freeze and change x.xx+1 to extras and start deving from x.xx+2 in -devel Jun 19 16:27:40 qwerty12: every software should Jun 19 16:27:50 imo Jun 19 16:27:51 qwerty12: I've got a salutary story for you to read Jun 19 16:28:22 but hey, it is a good thing we had this discussion, wasnt it Jun 19 16:28:41 qwerty12: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article4168112.ece be careful! ;) Jun 19 16:29:08 i do agree to your point that maemo cant be dev'd like debian (which is a bit bigger project) but i do think that "lets put everything in extras" wouldnt work either Jun 19 16:29:41 it is a good goal though Jun 19 16:29:59 to have everything in extras? Jun 19 16:30:23 "extras" where that is the stable & devel repos at least Jun 19 16:31:35 macoute: yes, everything stable, anyway Jun 19 16:32:05 lardman, sorry, wifi adapter messed up. So, where is this story? :D Jun 19 16:32:19 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article4168112.ece be careful! ;) Jun 19 16:32:23 :D Jun 19 16:32:47 Oh, is this the arms thing? Jun 19 16:32:56 Ah, maybe not Jun 19 16:32:57 lardman: what is there? (i amusing a cellphone) Jun 19 16:33:35 Story about a boy who hacked into college (iirc) computers & changed grades Jun 19 16:33:44 Maximum prison term is ~40y Jun 19 16:34:02 uk? Jun 19 16:34:24 lardman, Ha, but I ain't been caught :P. I just use my powers to mess up the computers, and open ports to play some online games. But this is why I shall not read the times again: "installed spyware on school hard drives that allowed him to access the computers from remote locations." Jun 19 16:34:55 RST38h: the boy is in the US I think Jun 19 16:35:05 us? wonderful Jun 19 16:35:06 Yeah, CA Jun 19 16:35:12 the greatest country of all, huh? :D Jun 19 16:35:34 well, that was not appropriate, sorry Jun 19 16:35:46 sunny liberal california? Jun 19 16:35:54 home time, bye Jun 19 16:36:06 RST38h: same state, i presume Jun 19 16:36:14 * RST38h giggles uncontrollably Jun 19 16:36:41 RST38h: i believe this guy is the head of state http://filmonic.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/terminator_004.jpg Jun 19 16:36:50 People's Republic of Kalifornia Jun 19 16:36:53 * macoute giggles even more Jun 19 16:36:54 everything goes according to the pan! Jun 19 16:36:55 macoute, lol Jun 19 16:37:01 plan, sorry Jun 19 16:37:28 The Gouvernator(tm) Jun 19 16:38:37 the next logical step would be to replace death sentences and long jail terms with exile Jun 19 16:39:27 i just think it is a massive fun pasting the pictures of the governor of CA all across the irc, dont know why? :) Jun 19 16:39:56 just go see some movie Jun 19 16:50:19 right i have the N95, where are these files meant to be? Jun 19 16:50:28 ive checked every folder and cant find any dlls Jun 19 16:58:42 atarii, perhaps its like the file manager on maemo - not showing system areas? Jun 19 16:58:52 re btw Jun 19 16:59:13 Atarii, Which dlls? (You aren't talking about Z: right?) Jun 19 17:08:41 bye Jun 19 17:08:58 Well, at least, I have an excuse for not reinstalling linux :/ : http://i29.tinypic.com/15ht1w.jpg Jun 19 17:14:00 Hi again Jun 19 17:14:10 Hi Jun 19 17:14:13 x-fade > ping Jun 19 17:15:00 x-fade > does the bomberman source package is well builded in chinook ? (work with autobuilder) Jun 19 17:15:12 hi qwerty12 Jun 19 17:21:13 hum maemo-wordpy passed the autorebuild on extras Jun 19 17:21:26 \o hi hkertan Jun 19 17:21:34 -typos Jun 19 17:21:59 :) Jun 19 17:22:02 * lcuk wonders how he manages to write software when he makes so many mistakes Jun 19 17:22:14 lol ... Jun 19 17:22:29 compiler check help a lot Jun 19 17:22:47 imagine your life tracking bug without :) Jun 19 17:22:50 not really, for years i used a variable called canvass.. Jun 19 17:22:51 lcuk: I've sort of been wondering the same thing throughout Summer of Code Jun 19 17:23:47 khertan :) before i got gcc working in scratchbox or on device i walked through the sdl code to see what was happening and why it wasnt doing as i thought it should Jun 19 17:24:14 ? Jun 19 17:24:20 i catch more bugs than the compiler :) Jun 19 17:24:26 lol Jun 19 17:24:59 are you on the train now and if so, what do you use for your connection? Jun 19 17:25:29 holy mother of god, the heavens just opened and its hailstoning \o/ Jun 19 17:25:43 how large? Jun 19 17:25:48 [don't say marble] Jun 19 17:25:50 :) Jun 19 17:26:13 the training i go to every couple years to keep my 'storm spotter' certification up has a good joke about marble sized hail Jun 19 17:26:17 nahhh just large enough to send the local kids scattering Jun 19 17:26:19 ahh Jun 19 17:26:21 peas Jun 19 17:26:46 we had some 5cm hail (~2in) a couple years ago Jun 19 17:26:56 where r u? Jun 19 17:27:17 * lcuk has never seen hail that big Jun 19 17:27:21 along with 128.7 km wind gusts Jun 19 17:27:27 (80mph) Jun 19 17:27:30 Minneapolis, MN USA Jun 19 17:27:32 lcuk > i m in the train Jun 19 17:27:33 i use a 6630 :) Jun 19 17:27:34 near minneapolis Jun 19 17:27:52 anyhow, yeah, 2in hail is scary Jun 19 17:27:58 had to replace the roof and siding Jun 19 17:28:06 dieman :) americans always supersize things Jun 19 17:28:18 lol Jun 19 17:28:42 khertan :) hope the data cost isn't too high Jun 19 17:28:51 * lcuk stops smiling Jun 19 17:28:59 nope Jun 19 17:29:02 lcuk: haha Jun 19 17:29:18 i use a turn arround Jun 19 17:29:30 http://www.ringworld.org/~dieman/photos/index.php?v=view&i=27&p=2005/Storm%209-21-05/dscn0089.jpg Jun 19 17:29:34 thats what it looked like coming in Jun 19 17:29:40 then i took a few more shots and hit the basement Jun 19 17:29:45 because there was a tornado report :/ Jun 19 17:30:07 data on dns port isn t count Jun 19 17:30:07 so i use tunneling to home Jun 19 17:30:16 thats the right idea: quick photos and then cower Jun 19 17:30:28 hehe khertan, crafty Jun 19 17:30:39 lcuk: did you see the tornado photo on nytimes this week? Jun 19 17:30:55 but else data cost is 1Mo for 1Euros Jun 19 17:30:55 very too high Jun 19 17:31:02 no, generally dont read us papaers too often Jun 19 17:31:24 anyone here know why I can't mount /dev/mtdblock3 on my n810? Jun 19 17:31:24 actually Jun 19 17:31:29 its on one of their blogs Jun 19 17:31:31 lcuk: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/a-remarkable-photo-from-tornado-country/ Jun 19 17:31:50 that would have scared the pants off of me Jun 19 17:32:16 khertan, you pinging? Jun 19 17:32:23 * lcuk hasnt seen that msg before Jun 19 17:32:56 im happy data is cheap here, $20 USD for unlimited GPRS Jun 19 17:33:03 but, then again, its only GPRS Jun 19 17:33:07 not 3g Jun 19 17:33:37 dieman, ahhh i did see that pic and other clouds similar Jun 19 17:33:39 for 20 euro's I can get national 3g coverage in the netherlands Jun 19 17:34:12 not bad Jun 19 17:34:20 we dont even have 3g here yet on t-mobile Jun 19 17:34:29 if only I had a 3g phone Jun 19 17:34:31 i could go with at&t, but they want ~$60 USD Jun 19 17:34:33 a month Jun 19 17:34:58 i have 3g phone and network, but igot a crappy phone so its modem is locked inside and it wont share with bluetooth devices Jun 19 17:35:04 ahh Jun 19 17:35:09 but I'm quite happy with my unlimited GPRS contract, 10 euro's a month isn't much Jun 19 17:35:13 * lcuk paid £25 for phone and tops up Jun 19 17:35:21 ive got a nokia 6086 right now Jun 19 17:35:37 dieman, the non-tethering data plan will work well enough. ;) Jun 19 17:35:37 but no clues anyone? Jun 19 17:35:41 has uma/gan service too, so it can make calls via wifi Jun 19 17:35:44 GeneralAntilles: ahh, no idea Jun 19 17:35:55 GeneralAntilles: how much is that on at&t? Jun 19 17:35:57 I have what used to be called the MediaMAX 200 plan. Jun 19 17:36:00 $20/mo Jun 19 17:36:00 crashmatrix, how do i list my the devices mounted Jun 19 17:36:03 "unlimited" Jun 19 17:36:04 GeneralAntilles: not bad Jun 19 17:36:07 so i can check where its meant to be Jun 19 17:36:24 omg, my nokia is dead Jun 19 17:36:27 lcuk: type mount with no parameters? Jun 19 17:36:34 i cant type feck yet Jun 19 17:36:50 omg :o Jun 19 17:38:27 yes i ve made a ping :) Jun 19 17:38:27 for 20 euros i can get 20Mo on 3g or gprs Jun 19 17:38:27 france powa :( Jun 19 17:38:47 thank god I don't have any limits on that thing :/ Jun 19 17:39:30 khertan, make sure you dont download any songs on your nokia - then you wont have anything Jun 19 17:39:54 this is still dead Jun 19 17:39:58 dieman: you're in Minneapolis? I go to school in MOrris Jun 19 17:40:13 s/MOrris/Morris/ Jun 19 17:40:13 summatusmentis meant: dieman: you're in Minneapolis? I go to school in Morris Jun 19 17:40:30 i don t have song Jun 19 17:40:33 are we meant to have screenburn? Jun 19 17:40:41 i hear it by streaming Jun 19 17:40:43 summatusmentis: cool, are you at UMN in morris? Jun 19 17:40:54 summatusmentis: I actually work for the U here in TC Jun 19 17:40:58 dns tunnheling powa :) Jun 19 17:41:19 dieman: oh cool. Yeah, I'm at UMM, getting ready to be a second year CSCI student Jun 19 17:41:30 a very well know way to bypass data limitation :) Jun 19 17:41:45 summatusmentis: ahh, cool. forget they have a program out there. Jun 19 17:41:51 summatusmentis: im a csci student here at TC Jun 19 17:41:51 i have taken the battery out and i can still read nokia on the screen Jun 19 17:42:14 lcuk: i've seen my screen do that under some lighting conditions Jun 19 17:42:17 on the n810 Jun 19 17:42:17 dieman: TC wouldn't let me in :) I was waitlisted like 3 times Jun 19 17:42:25 summatusmentis: yeah, its gotten really bad now i guess. Jun 19 17:42:31 summatusmentis: did you apply for IT only, or IT and CLA? Jun 19 17:42:35 both Jun 19 17:42:37 ok Jun 19 17:42:57 I'm an out-of-state student, and applied on the 14th at like 11:30(15th being the deadline) Jun 19 17:43:01 when i got in it was CLA, and i had good enough grades to get in on the gauranteed thing they had Jun 19 17:43:04 ahh yeah Jun 19 17:43:04 I think that's part of the reason Jun 19 17:43:11 out of state people get screwed :/ Jun 19 17:43:23 i was in-state and super early Jun 19 17:43:35 UMM has no out of state tuition, and sent me a letter telling me to apply :) Jun 19 17:43:43 heh Jun 19 17:43:45 when charging it normally says "charging" under the little power icon thing doesnt it (not on desktop, its just at bootup Jun 19 17:43:46 so it's all good Jun 19 17:43:53 they are trying to abolish out of state tution overall i think Jun 19 17:44:08 that'd be awesome Jun 19 17:44:23 * lcuk wipes the sweat from brow Jun 19 17:44:39 I've thought about transferring, but I don't really need to Jun 19 17:47:36 if you really like the atmosphere at morris Jun 19 17:47:38 i'd stay there Jun 19 17:47:42 TC is a culture shock Jun 19 17:48:22 or if you plan on going beyond a ugrad degree Jun 19 17:48:51 dunno, im still working on my ugrad, doing full time work and part time school Jun 19 17:48:57 it will only take forever minus a day :) Jun 19 17:52:48 yeah, I'm happy at morris, wish it were bigger though Jun 19 17:53:08 I live in St. Paul up through my 6th grade year, so I'm not unfamiliar w/ the cities Jun 19 17:55:01 X-Fade, What is the recommended icon size for the Maemo-Icon-26? Jun 19 17:55:15 26x26 ? =) Jun 19 17:55:26 Doh, thanks, heh Jun 19 18:00:48 OK, it's close enough to the first-draft. http://wiki.maemo.org/User:GeneralAntilles/Improving_the_Application_manager Jun 19 18:00:56 Any suggestions and ideas should go to the discussion page. ;) Jun 19 18:01:57 GeneralAntilles: You forgot about the thumb-bar ;) Jun 19 18:02:11 It needs to not lock the apt database the entire time it's open. Jun 19 18:02:17 That is the only thing I care about. Jun 19 18:02:25 X-Fade, thumb bar? Jun 19 18:02:48 It should use the big scrollbar for the listing. Like modest does. Jun 19 18:02:56 Ah, right. Jun 19 18:03:57 is there a way to arbitrarily control the led on an n810? Jun 19 18:04:23 putterson: there is a led api, iirc. Jun 19 18:04:34 Yes, there's even a little python application with sliders somewhere. Jun 19 18:04:45 exactly what I was hoping! Jun 19 18:05:03 do you know what it is called because I searched google "led control n810" and came up with nothing Jun 19 18:05:12 I don't remember Jun 19 18:05:16 It may have been jott Jun 19 18:05:22 so it's probably somewhere on sse2.net Jun 19 18:05:27 But I can't confirm that. Jun 19 18:08:11 wiki's broken. :( Jun 19 18:08:32 There it goes. Jun 19 18:08:43 GeneralAntilles: 1 minute. Trying to find why it sometimes doesn't give you a page. Jun 19 18:09:01 "Request could not be forwarded at this time" over http Jun 19 18:09:21 GeneralAntilles: Always use https ;) Jun 19 18:11:11 found it Jun 19 18:11:28 X-Fade, wifi psm on the N800 running the wiki, maybe? :D Jun 19 18:12:00 GeneralAntilles, the most glaring thing for me is an "updated since [last update|specified date]" option somewhere so i can see the new/improved stuff - even if i havent got it installed Jun 19 18:12:10 GeneralAntilles: Nah, apache threads segfault sometimes. Running gdb against it. Jun 19 18:12:30 perhaps a lighttpd/beowulf cluster of n810/n800's Jun 19 18:13:01 We're getting some pretty decent submissions already: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_logo_contest_submissions Jun 19 18:13:11 crashmatrix: Nah, we already run on N1210 ;) Jun 19 18:13:20 Though a lot of them fail completely at reading the guidelines. Jun 19 18:13:23 haha :p Jun 19 18:13:58 i really like the one which is a stroke with the m in a circle :) Jun 19 18:14:07 I like attila's Jun 19 18:14:16 GeneralAntilles, for future reference the program is at http://sse2.net/ledcolor.py Jun 19 18:14:23 and it's author is jott Jun 19 18:14:29 Woo! Jun 19 18:14:31 * GeneralAntilles was right. Jun 19 18:14:48 thanks, I never would have found it without you Jun 19 18:14:54 ;) Jun 19 18:15:00 I wish I could do pwm with it now... Jun 19 18:15:36 attila's funky logo reads as DP to my eyes (i fail lots of turing tests). Jun 19 18:17:11 Somebody should probably tell the people with non-compliant submissions now so they have time to revise them. Jun 19 18:17:17 is it apt-get or apt-cache that the list of installables is built up from? Jun 19 18:17:21 Some people seem to forget that we need a maemo.org logo ;) Jun 19 18:17:55 GeneralAntilles: Maybe add not-compliant page and move them out already? Jun 19 18:18:08 Oh oh.. I know. Jun 19 18:18:17 Make a not compliant template. Jun 19 18:18:24 With a red border orso.. Jun 19 18:18:51 Should work Jun 19 18:18:58 nice... led controle! :D Jun 19 18:19:26 does a setup.py create automatically script in bin ? Jun 19 18:19:43 as i don t see it in maemo-wordpy ? Jun 19 18:20:04 arf no Jun 19 18:20:18 maemo wordpy can t be launch from xterm Jun 19 18:21:13 Somehow that last logo reminds me of something. But I can't remember what ;) Jun 19 18:21:41 hehe :p Jun 19 18:23:07 This guy's really spamming them: https://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_jobelium_21.png Jun 19 18:23:42 pfff it s a real pain to make proper packages for autobuilder :) Jun 19 18:24:10 Khertan: If you put a package up, I can run Lintian against it if you like? Jun 19 18:24:44 yep ... thx ... but it s not ready yet :) Jun 19 18:27:49 GA: There ought to be a subliminal message in this image Jun 19 18:34:41 that's interesting ! http://smancke.blogs.evolvis.org/2008/06/19/give-a-n800-get-a-n810/ Jun 19 18:43:19 how large would a dictionary with definitions be? Jun 19 18:43:36 I would like a dictionary on my n810 Jun 19 18:43:44 can you recommend any? Jun 19 18:43:59 Webster's 1918? Jun 19 18:44:13 ~300MB Jun 19 18:44:19 oh that's good Jun 19 18:44:35 I hope it's been updated from 1918 though? Jun 19 18:45:42 I hope by 300MB you mean 15MB. Jun 19 18:46:34 compressed it could be Jun 19 18:47:50 standard dutch dictionary is about 30 mebibytes when compressed with lzma Jun 19 18:48:16 12M web1913.dict.dz Jun 19 18:48:16 3.4M web1913.index Jun 19 18:48:17 but you mileage may vary Jun 19 18:51:28 also is there a python script which will produce tones from a phone number ie. so I can dial without having to type anything? Jun 19 18:51:34 or any program really Jun 19 18:52:30 a plugin for osso-abook would be ideal Jun 19 18:52:33 if that is possible Jun 19 18:57:10 how can I get some for of partitioning software on os2008? Jun 19 18:57:46 apt-get install util-linux wants to revamp the whole system, I don't feel like taking that risk :) Jun 19 19:02:50 x-fade > i ll try to upload a source package to autobuilder that was made manually Jun 19 19:03:04 to see if i well understand Jun 19 19:03:47 if i found the url :) Jun 19 19:06:23 huzzah!!! 20:03:50 SQL execute error: table tblsketch already exists Jun 19 19:06:39 * lcuk is happy at that error Jun 19 19:07:25 oups i ve forgotten to make .changes file Jun 19 19:07:59 i think it build packages from sources Jun 19 19:10:08 x-fade > we can't just upload source Jun 19 19:10:10 ? Jun 19 19:10:18 bye Jun 19 19:14:09 anyone there? Jun 19 19:16:45 Hey all, does anyone know a reliable way to automount a usbdisk on boot with the 770? It doesn't seem like any of the 'usual' ways are immediately available Jun 19 19:20:33 tongues tied Jun 19 19:20:55 New to irc, are you, Churl? Jun 19 19:21:15 yep, what's the story here? Jun 19 19:21:25 well, it's been 10 years Jun 19 19:21:39 <||cw> Z0m81e: the mmc is done via scripts, not sure on the details Jun 19 19:22:12 i just did flashed my 800 for the 3rd time in the 3 days ive had it Jun 19 19:22:39 ||cw cheers i've just found someones script to mount a second mmc, looks trivial to change to to /dev/sda1 Jun 19 19:23:26 under application manager, the view of the "names" of the apps was so small i could only read a few letters Jun 19 19:23:37 "version" was huge! Jun 19 19:23:51 Churl, don't add every repository you see. :\ Jun 19 19:23:56 It's fixed in Diablo, anyway. Jun 19 19:24:00 i couldnt slide it or resize it so i had to flash Jun 19 19:24:06 haha! Jun 19 19:24:08 thanks Jun 19 19:24:21 There's no need to reflash. <_< Jun 19 19:24:32 All you had to do was delete the unnecessary repositories. Jun 19 19:24:40 i disabled all the ones i added Jun 19 19:25:43 should i just keep it to a few? aree there better ones? will it tell me when repos to add when im trying to find a new app? Jun 19 19:25:58 Really only need two, Extras and Extras-devel Jun 19 19:26:01 general, you are my new best friend Jun 19 19:26:11 you might add two more: FBReader and nitapps.com Jun 19 19:26:26 Anything else really isn't necessary. Jun 19 19:26:28 what about the hacks repo? Jun 19 19:26:41 k, ill do that now Jun 19 19:27:34 The repository mess has been an issue for a while, but it's actually getting better as we speak and a lot of devs are moving their stuff into Extras. Jun 19 19:27:36 oh, know a good set of apps for doing common things? such as watching online vids, irc, vnc Jun 19 19:27:45 awesome Jun 19 19:27:51 mplayer, xchat, x11vnc/vncviewer Jun 19 19:27:55 http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/ Jun 19 19:28:15 and maybe Canola if by "online vids" you mean YouTube. Jun 19 19:29:17 more like twilight zone and colbert report Jun 19 19:29:26 but yeah,youtube is fine Jun 19 19:29:44 X-Fade: I have veen very bussy lately with non direct maemo stuff but I think things are going in the right direction! Jun 19 19:29:48 now, what exactly is canola? is that a browser? Jun 19 19:30:08 http://openbossa.indt.org/ Jun 19 19:30:19 X-Fade: did you get some help for the extras's repo? Jun 19 19:30:56 thanks Jun 19 19:31:21 Somebody needs to push x11vnc to Extras. Jun 19 19:33:35 i had trouble installing it eirlier Jun 19 19:33:54 i had server working Jun 19 19:34:48 ive spent almost 20 hours in the past 3 days trying to fix this thing up Jun 19 19:34:56 im sorry, in this coffee shop Jun 19 19:35:48 Fix it up? Jun 19 19:37:25 with a few games and other apps to mess with while away from a connection: future=kismet Jun 19 19:38:31 can you sudo apt-get with this? it asks me for a password and rootme doesnt work Jun 19 19:38:56 Install easyroot from nitapps.com Jun 19 19:39:01 Then type "root" Jun 19 19:42:20 just root in the shell or sudo apt-get install ****** and password with root? Jun 19 19:42:56 root; apt-get install _____ Jun 19 19:43:04 nice Jun 19 19:43:13 which have i got installed then where i can "sudo gainroot" Jun 19 19:43:44 lcuk, easyroot aliases root to sudo gainroot. Jun 19 19:44:07 So, you could have either becomeroot or easyroot. Jun 19 19:44:20 Or R&D mode enabled. Jun 19 19:44:31 right, well its ok i just think root is too generic im happy telling it i want super powers Jun 19 19:44:35 Or you could've modified the script in your sleep and forgotten about it. Jun 19 19:44:38 i messed with that yesterday Jun 19 19:44:41 nahhh, windows flasher remember Jun 19 19:44:48 nahhh Jun 19 19:44:57 Fail. Jun 19 19:45:17 its not the OS GeneralAntilles, its how you use it Jun 19 19:45:25 No, it's still the OS. Jun 19 19:45:27 that's what she said Jun 19 19:46:53 GA, as far as xchat, do i get el? el=english? Jun 19 19:47:14 Get the one that's not a localization package. ;) Jun 19 19:47:24 i.e. look at the sizes. Jun 19 19:47:28 dont follow Jun 19 19:48:43 http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/xchat_2.8.4-chinook0-beta1_armel.deb Jun 19 19:49:00 the language files are tiny, the main program is large Jun 19 19:49:23 * lcuk tries to convey information by waving hands and realises irc doesnt translate very well Jun 19 19:49:23 nice, thanks man Jun 19 19:49:32 re Jun 19 19:49:48 hey florian Jun 19 19:50:04 \/ /\ \/ /\ Jun 19 19:50:11 lcuk: it doesn't? Jun 19 19:51:56 btw, what is in those xchat localization packages? Jun 19 19:52:07 just translated ui texts? Jun 19 19:52:10 i would think xchat localization files Jun 19 19:52:50 i dunno, ive never really given it much thought but it makes sense Jun 19 19:53:25 'cause xchat appears to support non-latin letters just fine without localization files Jun 19 19:53:33 UI texts, probably. Jun 19 19:55:59 that would be cool if you installed xchat in english and everyone in every chan spoke english Jun 19 19:56:12 question: know of a good way to have street maps (of atleast a state) saved and viewable off line? Jun 19 19:56:29 my n810 has whole country? Jun 19 19:56:37 lcuk: everybody in eery channel speaks english anyway Jun 19 19:56:54 Churl, Maemo Mapper. Jun 19 19:56:58 there is a lot of chinese/japanese/etc channels but they exist in a kind of a parallel universe from ours =) Jun 19 19:57:13 ill bark up that tree then Jun 19 19:58:10 is that the same thing as map that it comes installed with? Jun 19 19:59:38 yes, the map data came preinstalled on mine, im not sure if its available to you with 800 (to download maps for it i mean) Jun 19 20:02:05 Of course, there's always other map/direction programs, like RoadNav, but it requires a fair bit of storage for your maps. Jun 19 20:02:17 thanks, i see it now all 733mb for just the east. im moving tomorrow, ill do it from my new home Jun 19 20:02:37 i didnt ask you skmurphy Jun 19 20:02:54 but thanks Jun 19 20:02:56 cheerfully withdrawn Jun 19 20:03:19 sorry, i didnt mean to be rude, it's just that ive been having girl problems Jun 19 20:03:31 =lady Jun 19 20:04:24 Don't bother with "Map" Jun 19 20:04:32 Go get Maemo Mapper, you'll like it a lot more. ;) Jun 19 20:05:22 awesome, i have that problem all the time: which is the best? most of these apps are new Jun 19 20:06:06 For mapping? It depends. Jun 19 20:06:22 oh, in general Jun 19 20:06:38 but i need the maps to be on here even without a connection Jun 19 20:06:52 "Map" or Maemo Mapper will both accomplish that for you. Jun 19 20:07:08 mapper looks neat Jun 19 20:07:12 "Map" does offline routing, but only if you pay $130 or whatever it is now. Jun 19 20:07:39 Maemo Mapper gets routes from the internet, so you'll need to be connected to download a route, but you can pre-download them if you want Jun 19 20:07:46 and you don't need to be connected for maps. Jun 19 20:07:52 Maemo Mapper is free. Jun 19 20:08:05 See downloads.maemo.org for applications. Jun 19 20:08:24 cool, will do, im bookmarking it now Jun 19 20:09:34 oh nice, quake Jun 19 20:10:10 i messed with doom yesterday, couldnt enjoy playing it Jun 19 20:10:27 Quake's controls are quite nice. Jun 19 20:12:16 * aquatix installed openarena a few days ago Jun 19 20:12:21 * aquatix rather likes q3a Jun 19 20:16:50 can you suggest a VoIP service? Jun 19 20:17:38 sipphone.com Jun 19 20:17:42 Use the built-in SIP client. Jun 19 20:18:10 cool, ill check it, i was looking at gizmo Jun 19 20:18:18 Same thing Jun 19 20:18:23 sipphone.com == Gizmo Jun 19 20:18:26 ah Jun 19 20:18:41 do you use it? Jun 19 20:18:45 Gizmo is more or less the same as Skype, except they use Jabber/SIP Jun 19 20:18:54 so you can use your Gizmo account with pretty much any SIP client. Jun 19 20:19:08 Yeah, I use Gizmo with rtcomm (the built-in chat framework) Jun 19 20:19:10 can you use gizmo with skype? Jun 19 20:19:24 Atarii, is Skype a SIP client? Jun 19 20:19:33 umm, pass Jun 19 20:19:36 yes? Jun 19 20:19:40 No. ;) Jun 19 20:19:45 i lose :( Jun 19 20:20:07 Churl, I've got an N800 and a 770 that act as handsets for Gizmo Jun 19 20:20:23 Plus GrandCentral, that means my cellphone, computer, and tablets all ring from one number. Jun 19 20:20:47 im waiting for a grandcentral account, can you help? Jun 19 20:21:04 Nope, invites are closed for the time being. Jun 19 20:21:29 grr Jun 19 20:21:31 lawnmower man Jun 19 20:21:55 i dont have a cell phone anymore, so im looking for a way people can contact me with the n800 Jun 19 20:22:37 they could hit you on the head with it Jun 19 20:23:00 lol Jun 19 20:23:22 Churl, get $10 worth of call-out minutes and a $35/yr call-in number from Gizmo. Jun 19 20:23:38 do those wifi sd cards work with the n800? Jun 19 20:24:19 No SDIO support. Jun 19 20:25:06 yeah, i was looking at that and hoping there was a way to avoid it Jun 19 20:25:24 Cheaper than a cell. ;) Jun 19 20:25:35 very trud Jun 19 20:25:37 true Jun 19 20:26:12 * lcuk can create records Jun 19 20:26:47 the mapper looks like it would be poor for downloading maps, or maybe im doing it wrong but 100gigs..... Jun 19 20:27:43 ;p; Jun 19 20:28:07 did you select loads of detail levels? Jun 19 20:28:08 * lcuk moves atariis keyboard back and giggles Jun 19 20:28:09 Churl, how many levels are you downloading? Jun 19 20:28:12 map was 700 for the east coast Jun 19 20:28:19 lcuk :p Jun 19 20:28:22 :) down to street level Jun 19 20:28:22 Map is vector, Maemo Mapper is raster Jun 19 20:28:28 Just download the maps for your city. Jun 19 20:28:37 oh, didnt see that option Jun 19 20:28:49 isnt there also a way to download a path along a route? Jun 19 20:28:55 Yes Jun 19 20:28:57 * lcuk rememebers people saying at ltag Jun 19 20:29:02 The Maemo Mapper documentation is quite excellent. Jun 19 20:29:18 i need to read that also Jun 19 20:29:26 its well mapped out and signposted to help you resolve your problem Jun 19 20:29:36 boom boom Jun 19 20:29:48 cool thanks for answering these questions guys! Jun 19 20:29:56 and ladies ;) Jun 19 20:30:04 churl, its helpful to all to see responses Jun 19 20:30:07 who am i kidding? guys Jun 19 20:30:17 actually i believe there once was a girl in here Jun 19 20:30:31 i know, im sleeping with her Jun 19 20:31:03 so's half the chan Jun 19 20:31:12 oh shit! Jun 19 20:31:22 it's funny, cause you thought i was joking Jun 19 20:31:24 IRC, where the men are men, the women are men and the little girls are FBI agents. Jun 19 20:31:26 check this out: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wp-content/themes/n810/rt_dimensions/images/triangle-hilite1.png Jun 19 20:31:28 i told her to join Jun 19 20:31:37 very nice lol Jun 19 20:32:11 RST38h, wtf? ickle triangle? Jun 19 20:32:19 blank? Jun 19 20:32:24 and this one: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wp-content/themes/n810/rt_dimensions/images/triangle.png Jun 19 20:32:28 ok stuck again - anyone have any ideas for how to get a 770 to mount a usbdisk on boot? sticking it in fstab apparantly doesn't work Jun 19 20:32:38 lcuk: these are images that slow itt page display down to a crawl Jun 19 20:32:43 check out their sizes Jun 19 20:33:00 Holy hell, really? Jun 19 20:33:06 yep Jun 19 20:33:13 That's ridiculous. Jun 19 20:33:23 GA: could you point this out to Reggie if you see him here? Jun 19 20:33:24 1999px × 1000px :) Jun 19 20:33:24 2.25 kB (2306 bytes) Jun 19 20:33:35 imagesize!=filesize Jun 19 20:33:43 RST38h, he's never in here. Jun 19 20:33:45 Data size: 7996000 bytes Jun 19 20:33:45 Drop him a PM. Jun 19 20:33:53 Data size: 8000000 bytes Jun 19 20:33:53 but it would make a browser in limited env like nit Jun 19 20:34:00 This is their size in firefox cache Jun 19 20:34:17 More mock-ups. https://wiki.maemo.org/User:GeneralAntilles/Improving_the_Application_manager Jun 19 20:34:37 ive set it as desktop wallpaper :D something that big and hires deserves to be seen :D Jun 19 20:34:59 *g* Jun 19 20:36:11 GeneralAntilles: i like the column-view Jun 19 20:36:16 GA: I suggest you make categories a drop down box like I have done in PackRat Jun 19 20:36:32 GA: The reason is that the current list of categories is pretty much useless Jun 19 20:36:55 it is also relatively short, so it does not make sense to show the whole list. Jun 19 20:36:58 Well, that's hopefully gonna get better over time. Jun 19 20:37:22 GA: It won't judging from how freebsd category lists developed Jun 19 20:37:51 A lot of apps really apply under multiple categories, people often misassign categories, etc Jun 19 20:38:15 Besides, debtags may be on the list for Fremantle. Jun 19 20:38:22 But if you *really* want to display categories, make 'em iPhonesque icons :) Jun 19 20:39:57 None of the mockups on that page are really original - they are all minor tweaks to existing (underbaked) UI Jun 19 20:40:11 Well, DUH Jun 19 20:40:31 I'm not proposing a really major overhaul. Jun 19 20:40:42 Since that's not something that we're going to get from Nokia in a reasonable timeframe. Jun 19 20:40:49 True Jun 19 20:40:52 These are small things that may work within the spec. Jun 19 20:41:18 You're more than free to put together some radical mock-ups for your own proposal. ;) Jun 19 20:41:24 I have Jun 19 20:41:54 Just look at PackRat (although it is not exactly an App Manager) Jun 19 20:42:07 anyone happen to have a 2.6.21 g_ether.ko that works with RNDIS? Jun 19 20:42:56 (for maemo, obviously) Jun 19 20:44:12 Anyway, RST38h, this is rather short-term stuff that might actually have a chance in hell of happening. Jun 19 20:44:15 Think Fremantle. Jun 19 20:46:28 Fremantle isn't exactly short term yet ;) Jun 19 20:46:43 But I agree, chances of seeing any major changes there are slim Jun 19 20:49:21 so scratchbox2 on my ubuntu updated automatically (via apt). Now it seems to have b0rked my env. What is the correct command to re-init my chinook40_armel env? Jun 19 20:49:59 RST38h, you have GTK skills? Jun 19 20:51:00 "sb2-init chinook40_armel /path/to/arm-2005q3/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc" complains saying: "configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs." Jun 19 20:53:06 GA: Some Jun 19 20:53:23 GA: I do not have much experience with GTK but after a while it no longer matters Jun 19 20:53:49 You mean, after a while you have experience. Jun 19 20:54:10 i like the tree view Jun 19 20:54:13 You should find the time to do a prototype of a radical new application manager design. ;) Jun 19 20:55:28 GA: I barely find enough time to make money Jun 19 20:55:41 lol Jun 19 20:55:52 GA: If Nokia wishes to hire me as a consultant though, I am all for it Jun 19 20:56:16 so, anyone know off hand the correct sb2 init command? Jun 19 20:58:02 maemo-rootstrap install chinook40_armel Jun 19 20:58:04 ? Jun 19 20:58:29 is there an easy way to add an item to the launcher menu or some package that lets you add links to your own applications? Jun 19 20:58:43 dtaylor@t43:~/workspace/$ maemo-rootstrap list Jun 19 20:58:43 chinook401_i386 Jun 19 20:58:43 bora31_armel Jun 19 20:58:43 chinook40_armel Jun 19 20:58:43 mistral20_armel Jun 19 20:58:44 scirocco22_armel Jun 19 20:59:02 err, sorry about flood, but rootstrap is installed Jun 19 20:59:05 why do you need all of them? Jun 19 20:59:34 GA, i really like the app man youve got going on Jun 19 20:59:49 well, I have them, but sb2 needs to be reinitalized after upgrade Jun 19 21:00:14 should I just delete all my rootstraps and redownload/install? Jun 19 21:01:15 Maxim: this is what I have been going to suggest Jun 19 21:01:38 * hrw -> sleep Jun 19 21:08:16 okay, yeah, that worked. *Grumble* now i have to go install all my other packages again Jun 19 21:08:56 (I had alot of deps installed inside sb for building things) Jun 19 21:47:45 Atarii: ping Jun 19 21:59:31 Ugh, the wiki's getting more broken. :\ Jun 19 22:18:24 GeneralAntilles: Is it just outdated wiki content, or is the wiki getting spammed into oblivion? (I know they were moving the wiki from Midgard to MediaWiki, but I haven't kept up on any migration specifics aside from the initial mention....) Jun 19 22:18:48 Spammed? Jun 19 22:20:03 Apparently the apache threads are segfaulting for some reason, but I don't think it has anything to do with spam. Jun 19 22:20:45 (Like junk article commits or fake comments in the Talk entries for the articles.) Jun 19 22:21:24 Where? https://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Recentchanges Jun 19 22:21:25 or it could just be an unstable server hosting box. it could be seriously underpowered and inside a vm on someones n770 Jun 19 22:21:48 Gah, OK, Apache taking a dive isn't something that community initiative could instantly fix. Jun 19 22:22:51 I thought it was just general wiki degradation . (Articles getting more and more out-of-sync with current events/realities.) Jun 19 22:22:56 the nokia guys might be using it as a quake server during night hours ;) Jun 19 22:23:20 I know I would be. Jun 19 22:23:22 it works perfectly whilst you're asleep gen :P Jun 19 22:23:55 Pizza Hut got cinnamon on my breadsticks. :< Jun 19 22:25:07 lcuk, we only play Mario Cart. Jun 19 22:25:28 :D heh Jun 19 22:25:32 Cart? Is that a Nokia fork? :P Jun 19 22:26:12 m-vo, still in progress, and you've seen some of it, but this might interest you. ;) https://wiki.maemo.org/User:GeneralAntilles/Improving_the_Application_manager Jun 19 22:30:49 GeneralAntilles, the Column View looks *good*. Jun 19 22:31:03 Thanks! Jun 19 22:34:46 Might be easier for new users to grok since it would share many UI/UX concepts with Modest too. Tree View is tight too, but at first glace I didn't get that there were categories with their specific entrants beneath them. (That's what I get for looking at the screenshots and _then_ reading....) Jun 19 22:37:43 jmc93739653, it'd probably be easier to understand when you have something tappable in front of you. Jun 19 22:39:04 hello Jun 19 22:39:43 GeneralAntilles, nice work! Jun 19 22:39:45 Haven Jun 19 22:39:46 i'm trying to make a home plugin like the rss reader, I'm stuck in the alpha/cairo stuff, is any source code example in C? Jun 19 22:40:07 't seen the page itself yet, but I saw the category mockups. Jun 19 22:41:27 The only category view that has a chance with our UI style direction is the grid view. Jun 19 22:41:40 Pannable with kinetic scrolling, of course. Jun 19 22:41:49 * lcuk smiles Jun 19 22:42:05 any idea? Jun 19 22:42:55 fugitivo, i think ive seen something during my wanders, but i really cant remember where Jun 19 22:43:09 try googling something like "maemo desktop applet c" .. Jun 19 22:43:15 i found a lot of examples in python, but none in C Jun 19 22:44:18 m-vo, are you talking current device or pie in the sky future stuff Jun 19 22:44:36 future stuff Jun 19 22:44:58 Fremantle is sounding more and more interesting. . . . Jun 19 22:45:59 need horsepower to do that though :) this is proper 3d transitions in qt then i gather Jun 19 22:46:00 m-vo: no pie menus? Jun 19 22:46:03 fremantle makes me think of frenulum for some reason Jun 19 22:46:18 acydlord: that's just you Jun 19 22:46:35 so good news Jun 19 22:46:54 the n810 can apparently take a 7 foot drop onto concrete without so much as a scratch Jun 19 22:47:07 acydlord: not really, screen is too fragile Jun 19 22:47:19 if it falls on the back, then yes Jun 19 22:47:28 acydlord: my n810 was scratched by the car holder easily Jun 19 22:47:30 it fell on the left side Jun 19 22:48:21 Qt, lcuk? :\ Jun 19 22:49:27 fugitivo: it proves you can't use it properly Jun 19 22:49:40 m-vo, have you seen the kinetic stuff ive done on current hardware? Jun 19 22:49:41 anyway, I need to know how to build a working kernel with DVFS Jun 19 22:49:43 AStorm: yeah right Jun 19 22:49:59 AStorm: i forgot the tablets are for nerds and not for end users Jun 19 22:50:00 otherwise, it's no game and n810 is dead after 10h or so Jun 19 22:50:00 acydlord, was your keyboard out at the time - mine was and it cushioned the fall Jun 19 22:50:08 fugitivo: not really ;P Jun 19 22:50:11 i have seen some demos, not sure it was yours. Jun 19 22:50:18 they are sturdy Jun 19 22:50:20 keyboard was closed, popped open when it bounced Jun 19 22:50:27 book reading and sketching Jun 19 22:50:38 with a big graffiti wall :D Jun 19 22:51:05 acydlord: my n810 has had worse falls w/o damage, so? Jun 19 22:51:07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI Jun 19 22:51:22 got my kickstand slightly bent Jun 19 22:51:24 AStorm: using the car holder is too dificult, i can't do it, oh god why i'm so stupid! Jun 19 22:51:42 fugitivo: that sarcasm is lost on me :) Jun 19 22:51:48 i had the car holder on a belt clip for awhile Jun 19 22:51:49 you've admitted yourself ;P Jun 19 22:52:09 i wish someone made a slim abs belt holster, bastards Jun 19 22:52:18 acydlord: well Jun 19 22:52:28 GeneralAntilles: why do you say freemantle is sounding more interesting? Jun 19 22:52:36 summatusmentis, lots of reasons. Jun 19 22:52:52 Just little hints here and there. Jun 19 22:52:52 i have nominated one pocket to be nokia pocket, NOTHING else goes in it so theres nothing to scratch it Jun 19 22:53:06 Stuff about PowerVR from LinuxTag Jun 19 22:53:14 UI stuff from various places (bugzilla, mostly) Jun 19 22:53:21 lcuk, that would be my left pocket, or the right cargo on all my rei pants Jun 19 22:53:23 Hint about Xorg on bugzilla. Jun 19 22:53:25 one thing that s seriously wrong with the Application manager, IMO, is that error messages about dependency problems are utterly inscrutable. Jun 19 22:53:26 lcuk: I put my wallet and n810(in a case) in it Jun 19 22:53:31 Just lots of small things. Jun 19 22:53:32 acydlord: what do the girls think about that? Jun 19 22:54:11 back later Jun 19 22:54:13 m-vo: not all that bad Jun 19 22:54:17 but they could be better Jun 19 22:54:27 GeneralAntilles, I've been hoping the PVR rumors are more than just a whisper campaign. Jun 19 22:55:16 fugitivo, no idea, my belt already looks like batmans toolbelt with all the gadgets i carry around Jun 19 22:55:24 acydlord: ;P Jun 19 22:55:36 that's why I bought n810 - so that it wouldn't look like that Jun 19 22:55:43 But Imagination Technologies have talked the Linux talk before, with less than demonstrable results. So, my optimism is guarded. Jun 19 22:56:31 well, i can't believe there's no source code example in C for home plugins using alpha transparencies Jun 19 22:56:38 i need to go more geek and buy a couple scott-E vests and gadget holsters Jun 19 22:56:49 fugitivo, look at fiferboy's new applet? Jun 19 22:57:37 GeneralAntilles: err no, could you give me more info please? Jun 19 22:58:20 acydlord: I recommend Urbantool stuff Jun 19 22:58:23 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20945 Jun 19 22:58:28 fugitivo: it's just an alpha pixmap? Jun 19 22:58:33 i'll check that out fugitivo Jun 19 22:58:41 it works like fake or normal transparency on default desktops Jun 19 22:58:56 i still need to get a spare battery cover for my n810 so i can hack it into a wearable Jun 19 22:59:29 GeneralAntilles: does it work like the Rss plugin? because I saw some python plugins that just redraws the background and it's really ugly and slow Jun 19 22:59:39 acydlord: hm, might be hard to get Jun 19 22:59:47 AStorm: that's not what i'm looking for Jun 19 23:00:02 I don't think it's Python. Jun 19 23:04:57 GeneralAntilles: thanks, i'll look at it Jun 19 23:22:50 gan: so how's ohloh? Jun 19 23:22:55 Much better Jun 19 23:23:00 The MicroB logo is better, too. Jun 19 23:23:13 you didn't like mine? :( Jun 19 23:23:37 Nah, it's beautiful, you just chose the crappy version. ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Microblogo.png Jun 19 23:23:50 heh Jun 19 23:24:30 bee? why? :p Jun 19 23:24:53 how many pages did you do? Jun 19 23:25:05 http://www.ohloh.net/tags/maemo?page=6 seems somewhat unloved Jun 19 23:25:15 The first 3 or so Jun 19 23:25:17 fwiw, i've just pulled in all the garage svn's Jun 19 23:25:30 The rest either really aren't worth my time or don't have logos. :P Jun 19 23:25:45 the next time i find a way to use rsync between swift and sanjay, i'll do so Jun 19 23:25:53 and then mxr.maemo.org will have more current content :) Jun 19 23:25:56 (and no disk space) Jun 19 23:26:02 hey anyone know how to save an edited document in consoel Jun 19 23:26:07 garage svn is 16gb + 5gb just for browser Jun 19 23:26:11 crap... I'm looking at these maemo logos... I'm screwed Jun 19 23:26:21 I just edited a document but I have no clue how to end the editing and save it Jun 19 23:26:30 kekerot: vi? Jun 19 23:26:52 it just types that into the document Jun 19 23:26:53 lol Jun 19 23:26:59 Kekerot: editing with what? Jun 19 23:27:02 is that the editor you're using? Jun 19 23:27:04 xterminal Jun 19 23:27:06 if so, hardware escape Jun 19 23:27:10 xterminal isn't an editor Jun 19 23:27:13 Kekerot: that's not a document editor Jun 19 23:27:23 hardware escape Jun 19 23:27:26 :wq Jun 19 23:27:28 or Jun 19 23:27:29 im trying to install mac changer Jun 19 23:27:32 hardware escape Jun 19 23:27:35 :q! Jun 19 23:27:42 depending on whether you like your changes, or don't Jun 19 23:27:49 [the latter doesn't save your changes] Jun 19 23:28:06 knowing how to quit vi is the first step towards enlightenment ;) Jun 19 23:28:14 im going to brick my n810 lol Jun 19 23:28:22 Kekerot: why? Jun 19 23:28:22 * aquatix uses vim and knows how to quit emacs :P Jun 19 23:28:32 because i dont know wtf im doing in linux Jun 19 23:28:41 AStorm: using and to KNOW that you're using vi is the first step :) Jun 19 23:29:05 if you see an editor w/o UI, 75% chance it's vi Jun 19 23:29:08 or some vi clone Jun 19 23:29:21 15% chance it's a variant of ed Jun 19 23:29:46 it could be vi, joe, emacs, pico Jun 19 23:29:51 joe has ui Jun 19 23:29:54 emacs has ui Jun 19 23:29:54 nano! Jun 19 23:29:58 and pico definitely has ui Jun 19 23:29:59 :) Jun 19 23:30:03 ah Jun 19 23:30:08 nano has it too Jun 19 23:30:09 that kind of ui Jun 19 23:30:17 * aquatix mostly ignores that Jun 19 23:30:18 well Jun 19 23:30:22 vim has exactly one line of ui ;P Jun 19 23:30:23 "UI" Jun 19 23:30:34 then vi also has ui Jun 19 23:30:36 no Jun 19 23:30:44 it doesn't print anything by default Jun 19 23:30:46 :) Jun 19 23:30:52 yes it does Jun 19 23:30:55 it may have a status line, like vim Jun 19 23:31:01 but it's optional, only in newer versions Jun 19 23:31:01 then it has ui Jun 19 23:31:06 :) Jun 19 23:31:15 you can type in it and read back your changes? Jun 19 23:31:18 then it has ui Jun 19 23:31:23 it prints ~ on all non-used lines Jun 19 23:31:33 and it prints the filename on the last line Jun 19 23:31:34 fugitivo: depends on the vi variant :) Jun 19 23:31:37 some don't Jun 19 23:31:40 and the cursor position Jun 19 23:31:47 line number Jun 19 23:31:52 aquatix: only new ones Jun 19 23:31:59 true Jun 19 23:32:15 astorm: what is a new one for you? Jun 19 23:32:18 if you see one status line, it's definitely vi Jun 19 23:32:30 anyone know how to get roadmapper working? Jun 19 23:32:30 fugitivo: like, 15 years old Jun 19 23:32:35 AStorm: lol Jun 19 23:33:08 fugitivo: not lol, there are some Solaris systems around Jun 19 23:33:11 AStorm: i'm an oldschool unix admin, but 15 years old is not new for me Jun 19 23:33:18 hehe Jun 19 23:33:38 old BSD vi is also funny, but has that status line Jun 19 23:33:47 elvis ftw Jun 19 23:33:51 ;) Jun 19 23:33:57 busybox vi can be configured to not have the status line to save space too Jun 19 23:34:00 anybody here programmed on minix? Jun 19 23:34:14 * aquatix did Jun 19 23:34:18 it was... interesting Jun 19 23:34:30 kickstarted me into vim though Jun 19 23:34:40 with its elvis vi clone Jun 19 23:34:48 ;P Jun 19 23:35:00 how do you setup roadmap? it always says no maps are visible within a set of coordinates even though I used the getmaps app to download some Jun 19 23:35:13 anyone tried navit? Jun 19 23:35:54 * aquatix goes get some sleep Jun 19 23:35:55 nn all Jun 19 23:35:56 does navit have turn by turn directions? Jun 19 23:36:43 yes Jun 19 23:48:08 man my n810 is all crazy now im going to have to reformat it Jun 19 23:49:41 That's what you get for trying to rip off Navicore. ;) Jun 19 23:49:57 i knew it would happen lol Jun 19 23:50:17 you could just buy a gps for their sub price lol Jun 19 23:50:29 if only roadmap worked Jun 19 23:50:37 Maemo Mapper? Jun 19 23:51:31 no i need a vector based turn by turn one Jun 19 23:51:45 maemo seems pretty useless imo Jun 19 23:51:49 maemo mapper i mean Jun 19 23:53:32 Erm Jun 19 23:53:35 How do you figure? Jun 19 23:53:48 Where else can you get navigation with satellite maps? Jun 19 23:54:43 satellite is not always so clear when driving Jun 19 23:54:46 it doesnt have rerouting Jun 19 23:54:51 Does too. Jun 19 23:55:03 lcuk_, then press one button to switch to street. Jun 19 23:55:05 without internet connection? Jun 19 23:55:35 you could buy several GPS unites for the price of navicore Jun 19 23:55:54 how much is navicore? Jun 19 23:55:57 Meh, I have a cellphone. Jun 19 23:56:06 Kekerot: try Navit Jun 19 23:56:16 Kekerot: www.tecdencia.net/navit/ Jun 19 23:59:55 how do i get maps for it? Jun 20 00:00:04 timeless, around $130 or so if I'm remembering correctly. Jun 20 00:01:53 hi, new here, and just got a 770. whats the best OS to use? Jun 20 00:02:39 It depends Jun 20 00:04:19 hotwingz330: the one which works for you :) Jun 20 00:04:43 it has os2006 out of box but the application manager is hanging Jun 20 00:06:04 Kekerot: you can use garmin maps or openstreet, read the instructions Jun 20 00:21:11 hotwingz330: os2006 is officially supported; os2007 lets you run more applications but you're on your own Jun 20 00:24:23 os2006 is more stable Jun 20 00:24:37 os2007 is a pain in the ass on the 770 Jun 20 00:24:47 Not really. Jun 20 00:24:55 yes it is Jun 20 00:25:16 I found OS2007HE to be quite nice. OS2008HE is even better. Jun 20 00:25:29 You HAVE to have swap enabled though. Jun 20 00:25:33 i had Jun 20 00:25:50 and upping the swappiness helps a lot too. Jun 20 00:25:51 but too much problems, with os2006 everything was solved Jun 20 00:26:00 Subjective. Jun 20 00:26:01 now i have the n810, so no problems at all Jun 20 00:26:13 personally, I can't stand OS2006 Jun 20 00:26:38 i couldn't neither, but i needed stability Jun 20 00:26:43 and os2006 gave me that Jun 20 00:27:47 do you guys think the next tablet will be smaller or larger than the n810? Jun 20 00:28:03 Kekerot, I certainly hope it isn't any smaller. Jun 20 00:28:06 what about the same size? Jun 20 00:28:07 :) Jun 20 00:28:17 smaller screen = lose Jun 20 00:28:22 smaller, ipod like Jun 20 00:28:27 no, no, NO!!! Jun 20 00:28:29 ipod touch like Jun 20 00:28:34 Personally, the N810 being smaller than the N800 is a big negative point for me. Jun 20 00:28:36 smaller == mobile phone like. nahhhh Jun 20 00:28:37 if I wanted an iPod touch, I'd buy it Jun 20 00:28:43 maybe its the size of the n810 but with no bevel and a huge screen lol Jun 20 00:28:44 fugitivo is just pulling stuff out of his ass. Jun 20 00:28:50 :) Jun 20 00:28:59 THINNER Jun 20 00:28:59 they should use an oled display Jun 20 00:29:02 Kekerot: now, that would be almost good Jun 20 00:29:05 thinner would be fine Jun 20 00:29:11 lcuk_, and give up more storage? No thanks. Jun 20 00:29:15 Kekerot: if you build them a 225dpi OLED, then sure Jun 20 00:29:19 has nokia used oleds before? Jun 20 00:29:19 ^ Jun 20 00:29:21 GeneralAntilles: there's more than enough space inside Jun 20 00:29:28 why? 2 or 4 micro sds would make me happy Jun 20 00:29:38 I wonder why they dropped the FM receiver Jun 20 00:29:42 AStorm, get back to me when you design a mobile device. ;) Jun 20 00:29:46 yup, µSD is nice Jun 20 00:29:54 GeneralAntilles: there is a lot of space inside, really Jun 20 00:30:06 putting one or two chips more shouldn't be hard Jun 20 00:30:13 lol Jun 20 00:30:16 esp. if they change miniSD to microSD Jun 20 00:30:22 fm trasmitter would be good Jun 20 00:30:30 Kekerot: you mean receiver Jun 20 00:30:32 and maybe a decent camera on the front and back Jun 20 00:30:35 transmitter is impossible Jun 20 00:30:39 why Jun 20 00:30:45 camera... can't be too decent, it'd be too large Jun 20 00:30:51 we have radio transmitter already :) Jun 20 00:30:55 but slightly better, like 1mpix Jun 20 00:30:57 multiple infact Jun 20 00:31:04 1,2mpix class webcam Jun 20 00:31:18 resolution isnt important, get the frikkin quality up Jun 20 00:31:21 yup Jun 20 00:31:22 and more fps Jun 20 00:31:30 Kekerot: no, CPU won't manage Jun 20 00:31:40 unless they put a damn lot of HW accell Jun 20 00:31:42 wont the next cpu be more powerful Jun 20 00:31:43 *accel Jun 20 00:31:49 omap3 Jun 20 00:32:01 Kekerot: dunno yet, OMAP3 is more powerful, but not like twice ;P Jun 20 00:32:07 OMAP34xx? Jun 20 00:32:09 The resolution is fine as-is. What we need is a sensor that can tell white from black and doesn't have a noise floor up to the ceiling. Jun 20 00:32:15 it does, the problem i see is the camera is being translated from YUV to RGB32 and then downgraded when the LCD can handle direct YUV and it can be saved as a movie at that Jun 20 00:32:15 disable the display driver while recording for higher FPS lol Jun 20 00:32:22 heh, current one is just reddish and grainy Jun 20 00:32:23 Almost certainly the OMAP3430 Jun 20 00:32:24 * lcuk_ is frustrated by the camera so far Jun 20 00:32:25 but not all that bad Jun 20 00:32:36 * AStorm is frustrated by lack of software support for it Jun 20 00:32:43 OMAP3 can handle 12mp Jun 20 00:32:47 I never use the camera on my n810 Jun 20 00:32:51 btw, need a camera on back, really Jun 20 00:32:51 GAN800, Sweet. Jun 20 00:32:58 can't make pics otherwise Jun 20 00:33:13 the camera placement on the n810 kinda sucks Jun 20 00:33:14 A 45nm process OMAP 3430 would be awesome indeed. Jun 20 00:33:20 maybe a rotatable one on the left Jun 20 00:33:27 not ejected like in n800 Jun 20 00:33:31 hubble space telescope has a resolution of 1024*1024 (if i remember rightly) - its not the resolution that makes great pictures, its the sensor quality Jun 20 00:33:34 but a flipflop Jun 20 00:33:40 maybe on the right (there's free space ;P ) Jun 20 00:33:50 you can have 240mpixel shots but if the sensor is too small you get noise Jun 20 00:33:57 lcuk_: definitely Jun 20 00:33:58 lol yeah MEGAPIXEL MEGAPIXEL MEGAPIXEL! Jun 20 00:34:01 I'm still drooling over the Beagle Board (http://beagleboard.org/) as an OMAP3 test-bed. Jun 20 00:34:04 just have 2 - most phones do it nowadays Jun 20 00:34:04 I'm talking optical resolution Jun 20 00:34:26 low resolution webcam, higher better quality main scene camera Jun 20 00:34:38 yes, that would be OK too Jun 20 00:34:43 one on both sides, even my £25 crapper of a phone has them Jun 20 00:34:46 so I could properly target the camera Jun 20 00:34:48 http://techielobang.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/sony_oled_slim_1-thumb-450x337.jpg Jun 20 00:34:52 i wanna see an oled in a mid Jun 20 00:34:59 Kekerot: then build a cheap one Jun 20 00:35:06 we're all waiting for your plant to open Jun 20 00:35:10 lol ok Jun 20 00:35:11 With luck the BB will leave the JTAG port in release versions. Jun 20 00:35:35 Kekerot: trick is, resolution isn't as high as needed yet Jun 20 00:35:46 you can't get 225dpi with color oleds Jun 20 00:35:50 just yet Jun 20 00:35:53 Kekerot: OLED would be very, very cool;but OLED's impending World Domination (tm) keeps missing release schedules. Jun 20 00:36:12 jmc93739653: it will come, but later Jun 20 00:36:27 I want to reflash os2006 on my 770 Jun 20 00:36:27 where can I get the 2006 FIASCO Jun 20 00:36:27 and we'll get foldable displays, finally :D Jun 20 00:36:27 I remember reading in The Economist in '99 that OLED would be the New Hotness by 2005, and well, that didn't really happen ;) Jun 20 00:36:46 they should make oled clothing Jun 20 00:36:48 jmc93739653: they started to appear at least Jun 20 00:36:49 I'm totally smitten with Nokia's Morph concept. Jun 20 00:36:50 like camosuits Jun 20 00:37:00 Kekerot: won't work Jun 20 00:37:08 any stupid heat sensor will detect you Jun 20 00:37:14 you'll glow like a lamp Jun 20 00:37:16 :P Jun 20 00:37:29 remember reading in Economist in 1960 where they said we would all have hovercars and robots to do everything for us by 2000 Jun 20 00:37:29 lol but versus poor insurgents its an advantage Jun 20 00:37:39 leachim6: we're close Jun 20 00:37:46 I don't see Morph actually being profitable (or even mass producible) by 2010, though. 2015, maybe. Jun 20 00:37:47 we have one prototype hovercar Jun 20 00:37:55 and some prototype general purpose robots Jun 20 00:37:56 ;P Jun 20 00:37:56 well we have hovercars but they are not legal yet Jun 20 00:38:02 yup Jun 20 00:38:08 my dad flies each weekend Jun 20 00:38:22 those moller skycars are crazy lol Jun 20 00:38:29 jmc93739653: unless we get foldable displays and the concept goes obsolete ;P Jun 20 00:38:34 you can refuel at a gas station Jun 20 00:39:33 http://gizmodo.com/390919/spreadable-electronics-oleds-and-solar-cells-sprayed-from-a-can Jun 20 00:39:41 blah blah, blah Jun 20 00:39:55 tell me when they start mass production Jun 20 00:39:55 how would they control each pixel with something like this Jun 20 00:39:56 lol Jun 20 00:40:16 Kekerot: simple, use indium oxide electrodes Jun 20 00:40:19 with a mask to create the required circuitry Jun 20 00:40:21 they're transparent Jun 20 00:40:27 lcuk_: no Jun 20 00:40:28 and multiple layers, come on Jun 20 00:40:51 indium oxide... although it is expensive Jun 20 00:41:00 so they spray it on a circuit board? Jun 20 00:41:22 no, why? Jun 20 00:41:27 it has its own electrodes Jun 20 00:41:34 neatly sprayed Jun 20 00:41:40 inkjet :) Jun 20 00:43:15 Astorm: I thought Morph's screen was foldable? Jun 20 00:44:16 what games do you guys play on your tablets? Jun 20 00:44:21 jmc93739653: not just that Jun 20 00:44:25 the whole device Jun 20 00:44:33 Kekerot: who needs games? :P Jun 20 00:44:40 bored travelers Jun 20 00:44:45 with no movies or music Jun 20 00:44:47 lol Jun 20 00:45:05 keterot im playing a wicked game of c coding. its very addictive, ive gotta fight the big end of level boss and get tearfree updates ;) Jun 20 00:45:14 ive grown tired of crazy parking Jun 20 00:45:18 lol Jun 20 00:45:25 try numptyphysics Jun 20 00:45:45 are there any good rpgs available to us Jun 20 00:45:56 lcuk_: I love thinking of coding like this. Jun 20 00:46:23 jmc93739653, thinking about it? or doing it? Jun 20 00:47:15 AStorm, yeah ...but they said it would be a mature technology by 2000 Jun 20 00:47:27 someone give me a good artist to plug into last.fm ... I'm bored Jun 20 00:47:33 lcuk_: either, coding as gaming Jun 20 00:47:39 leachim6: futurology Jun 20 00:47:47 they're always off a generation or so Jun 20 00:48:13 leachim6, you can buy yourself a powered vehicle today which will take you up into the sky right now :) Jun 20 00:48:24 time to finally consider colonizing Mars ;P Jun 20 00:48:47 the point it .... it's neither practical or ubiquitous Jun 20 00:48:48 lcuk_: heh, if you can afford it *and* the special licence Jun 20 00:48:50 yet Jun 20 00:48:54 I say maybe another 20 years Jun 20 00:48:59 you can climb the highest mountain and fly back down, you can get into space in a metal can, you could go to other planets, all our goods are made by robots Jun 20 00:49:11 That's true Jun 20 00:49:20 they were right :) Jun 20 00:49:28 haha Jun 20 00:49:32 just not in the way they though :) Jun 20 00:49:33 but we have no domestic robots Jun 20 00:49:34 lcuk_: most of my programming consists of maintenance or utilitarian scripting. One of the reasons I bought a Tablet was that it seemed more amenable to 'blue sky' development than server-side web development/integration. Jun 20 00:49:44 instead we'll have intelligent homes ;P Jun 20 00:49:51 do you ? Jun 20 00:49:54 'cause I don't :_) Jun 20 00:50:06 unless you count the thermostat on the air conditioner... Jun 20 00:50:09 however, that's been prediced too Jun 20 00:50:18 leachim6: we *will* have, not have already Jun 20 00:50:25 *predicted even Jun 20 00:50:27 That is true ... the technology DOES EXIST Jun 20 00:50:31 and that's what they predicted Jun 20 00:50:42 it is in use too, but not widespread enough Jun 20 00:50:48 too expensive still Jun 20 00:50:52 and not cool enough Jun 20 00:50:58 jmc93739653, :) blue sky is a nice idea - did you work in win or linux before (and obviously still) Jun 20 00:51:01 that's the ubiquitous part Jun 20 00:51:09 just saying Jun 20 00:51:11 linux ftw! Jun 20 00:51:24 'cept that bug in PolicyKit in ubuntu hardy ... that sucks Jun 20 00:51:46 well, if I had these 10-20k$, I could make my house an intelligent one Jun 20 00:51:52 but... what's the point? Jun 20 00:52:11 for uber intelligence, I'd need 100k$ Jun 20 00:52:18 just hire a maid Jun 20 00:52:26 lcuk_: that's the point Jun 20 00:52:47 AStorm, that's not true man Jun 20 00:52:58 leachim6: what's not? Jun 20 00:53:05 if you have enough tech know-how ... you can hack together some pretty sweet home-automation for about 500 bucks Jun 20 00:53:10 why do you need an intelligent toaster? Jun 20 00:53:18 so I can run linux on my toaster! Jun 20 00:53:20 leachim6: not good enough Jun 20 00:53:25 cos i keep burning the toast! Jun 20 00:53:25 or maybe FreeBSD... Jun 20 00:53:28 I know what I'm saying about Jun 20 00:53:33 lcuk_, amen! Jun 20 00:53:34 just the cables will grab 500$ Jun 20 00:53:45 maybe more Jun 20 00:53:46 I dunno man Jun 20 00:53:48 wireless is getting big nowadays Jun 20 00:53:50 dude Jun 20 00:53:56 one day i think we will have small computers Jun 20 00:53:56 wireless is more expensive per device Jun 20 00:53:57 :) Jun 20 00:53:59 where the hell are you buying your cables Jun 20 00:54:02 bluetooth Jun 20 00:54:10 lcuk_: Mostly LAMP or Java. I'd use Linux (Ubuntu or Fedora) on my dev box, and Linux was by far the most prevalent production environ, but most of the work was platform agnostic. Usually boring "in-house" development to boot. Jun 20 00:54:16 http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons Jun 20 00:54:18 do the entire house in cat6 .... you can by a freaking quarter mile of that stuff for like 100 bucks ;) Jun 20 00:54:18 bluetooth will crowd the microwave band Jun 20 00:54:20 and die Jun 20 00:54:32 leachim6: yeah, sure Jun 20 00:54:51 it goes $1/m Jun 20 00:54:56 or more Jun 20 00:55:02 yes, more Jun 20 00:55:08 $2/m Jun 20 00:55:10 :) Jun 20 00:55:13 $499/m for the gold stuff Jun 20 00:55:20 lcuk_: where? :P Jun 20 00:55:24 http://www.amazon.com/Cables-To-Go-43107-CAT6/dp/B000HDOD8A/ref=pd_bbs_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1213923287&sr=8-5 Jun 20 00:55:30 there's 500 feet for under a hundred bucks Jun 20 00:55:43 500'? too little Jun 20 00:55:46 AStorm: there's a chance that "white-space" services & gear might actually see the light of day in the US. (VHF & UHF TV bands.) Jun 20 00:55:54 that would be maybe 1/3 of the cabling Jun 20 00:55:55 http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9967991-1.html Jun 20 00:56:08 it's just 100m Jun 20 00:56:27 so, I know what I'm saying Jun 20 00:56:28 100m is less than 500 feet.... Jun 20 00:56:28 :) Jun 20 00:56:33 leachim6: not much less Jun 20 00:56:56 exactly 152.4m Jun 20 00:56:57 :P Jun 20 00:56:59 wow ... that was really pricy Jun 20 00:57:03 that's not a whole lot Jun 20 00:57:05 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812270127 Jun 20 00:57:08 $110 Jun 20 00:57:09 and you get to cut it Jun 20 00:57:11 http://www.qualitycables.com/QB-CAT6-SOLID-BLUE.html Jun 20 00:57:14 1000 feet for 120 Jun 20 00:57:25 GeneralAntilles: now, that's talking Jun 20 00:57:26 :) Jun 20 00:57:32 I might buy this... Jun 20 00:57:41 ok, so, 200$ for cables Jun 20 00:58:07 bluetooth or broadband over electric thingy Jun 20 00:58:18 lcuk_: it's narrowband Jun 20 00:58:23 at most 10 Mbit ;) Jun 20 00:58:47 bluetooth is slow too :) Jun 20 00:58:58 and will crowd at the number of devices you need Jun 20 00:59:38 we were talking about home automation, not broadcast quality video streaming Jun 20 00:59:50 yeah, but bluetooth would still crowd Jun 20 01:00:00 power line network is workable though Jun 20 01:00:12 well it does already, iyou probably have quite a cluster of BT around you Jun 20 01:00:24 no, just a few devices Jun 20 01:00:26 :) Jun 20 01:00:43 it would be nice to have it controlled by BT though Jun 20 01:01:03 not without additional security of course Jun 20 01:01:07 walking into a room with 8x0 in hand gives you control of the elements in that room Jun 20 01:01:18 just pair them, you are in your own home Jun 20 01:01:29 no, just pair and enter strong password Jun 20 01:01:30 :P Jun 20 01:01:31 Don't need BT for that. Jun 20 01:01:38 Just connect to the wifi network. Jun 20 01:01:39 GeneralAntilles: wifi? Jun 20 01:01:45 more expensive Jun 20 01:01:51 but also possible Jun 20 01:02:10 less resolution - you would still be connected to previous room Jun 20 01:02:11 i.e., wire up all the devices to the network, then have the N8x0 connect to the network with wifi. ;) Jun 20 01:02:16 lcuk_: sure Jun 20 01:02:31 ie it wouldnt know to show you the controls that are best around you Jun 20 01:02:45 You could do that with BT proximity. Jun 20 01:02:51 Just stick a beacon in each room. Jun 20 01:02:55 in the lounge i want lights curtains and tv, but there isnt much use for the bog flusher Jun 20 01:02:59 No need for every freaking device to be BT. Jun 20 01:03:09 GeneralAntilles: yup, exactly Jun 20 01:03:16 if theres a beacon might as well make it intelligent, its just a few control signals and info updates Jun 20 01:03:37 lcuk_: "just a few" multiply by some like 20-30 devices Jun 20 01:04:26 right, and how cheap can you get tiny java running bluetooth devices? think oldish mobiles... Jun 20 01:04:34 too expensive Jun 20 01:04:41 and wifi and computers isnt Jun 20 01:04:49 and you still need a lot of customization Jun 20 01:04:51 wifi isn't Jun 20 01:04:59 you set up one access point and that's all Jun 20 01:05:09 connect it to the power line network Jun 20 01:05:15 eh? the transport layer is irrelivent - the data app still has to be written Jun 20 01:05:20 yes Jun 20 01:05:25 but no need for Java Jun 20 01:05:36 embedded is cheaper Jun 20 01:08:10 a phone is just a nice low power device which happens to have the technology required - hell you could even use the cameras. and if hacked properly could make an excellent embedded node :) pennies per device, choose the right one write software targetting it (doesnt have to be java) and away you go Jun 20 01:08:35 lcuk_: embed a phone in the toaster Jun 20 01:08:44 yeah, that should do it, at 100$/unit cost ;P Jun 20 01:09:02 pennies per device - you must be joking Jun 20 01:09:09 note, we're not talking mass production here Jun 20 01:09:36 still, I could grab enough µCs for like, 200-300$ Jun 20 01:09:37 how many billions of these little microcomputers with lots of technology been made sold given away flushed lost dropped Jun 20 01:09:47 many, but not enough Jun 20 01:09:53 and it's hard to get them in bulk Jun 20 01:10:38 are you fixated on the toaster? im thinking general purpose monitoring nodes - you are right if you want talkie toaster :) easier to embed Jun 20 01:14:11 lcuk_: trick is, there are really many devices Jun 20 01:14:16 starting from doors Jun 20 01:14:44 through whole kitchen (oven(s), fridge, dishwasher) Jun 20 01:15:01 etc. Jun 20 01:15:05 really a lot Jun 20 01:15:25 automatic blinds, lights etc. Jun 20 01:15:32 anyway, I've to go to sleep :) Jun 20 01:15:48 agreed, gnite Jun 20 01:43:19 hi Jun 20 01:44:39 yay xchat works Jun 20 01:45:32 test Jun 20 01:46:43 Churl, I can't see what you're typing. Jun 20 01:47:48 ut oh any hints? Jun 20 01:48:14 Punch Navi in the mouth. Jun 20 01:48:26 ppunch!!!!! Jun 20 01:48:35 * Navi rolls on the floor, laughing. Jun 20 01:48:48 got you!! Jun 20 01:49:07 i win Jun 20 02:58:55 [SB2 maemo mistral20_armel] ronnie@ubuntuBoxx ~ $ af-sb-init.sh start Jun 20 02:58:58 Note: For remote X connections DISPLAY should contain hostname! Jun 20 02:59:00 Sample files present. Jun 20 02:59:03 /etc/osso-af-init/dbus-systembus.sh: line 37: /usr/bin/scratchbox-launcher.sh: No such file or directory Jun 20 02:59:06 Starting D-BUS session bus daemon Jun 20 02:59:08 /sbin/start-stop-daemon: stat /usr/bin/dbus-daemon: No such file or directory (No such file or directory) Jun 20 02:59:11 /etc/osso-af-init/sapwood-server.sh: line 33: /usr/bin/scratchbox-launcher.sh: No such file or directory Jun 20 02:59:14 /etc/osso-af-init/matchbox.sh: line 65: /usr/bin/scratchbox-launcher.sh: No such file or directory Jun 20 02:59:17 /etc/osso-af-init/clipboard.sh: line 30: /usr/bin/scratchbox-launcher.sh: No such file or directory Jun 20 02:59:20 any ideas? (sorry for flooding :D) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 20 02:59:56 2008