**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 21 02:59:56 2008
Jun 21 03:03:09 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: I'm gonna sketch it up first before I spend like 5 hours vectorizing it
Jun 21 03:03:26 <beford> heh, working on a logo?
Jun 21 03:03:48 <rm_you> yea
Jun 21 03:08:07 <summatusmentis> ugh... I should do that...
Jun 21 03:10:25 <rm_you> hrm
Jun 21 03:10:32 <rm_you> it does use the combine ae character, yes?
Jun 21 03:10:36 <rm_you> or is just a e fine
Jun 21 03:10:44 <rm_you> æ vs ae
Jun 21 03:10:54 <GeneralAntilles> just use ae
Jun 21 03:11:17 <summatusmentis> I like the combined one, but I'm a latin nerd
Jun 21 03:11:31 <GeneralAntilles> It's maemo.org
Jun 21 03:11:43 <GeneralAntilles> not mæmo.org
Jun 21 03:11:53 <summatusmentis> meh...
Jun 21 03:12:26 <summatusmentis> is it even possible to use the single character in a url?
Jun 21 03:13:04 <rm_you> no
Jun 21 03:13:09 <rm_you> but, for the logo...
Jun 21 03:13:17 <GeneralAntilles> No.
Jun 21 03:13:26 <GeneralAntilles> :P
Jun 21 03:13:30 <beford> it may be possible to use it in the url
Jun 21 03:13:32 <GeneralAntilles> Do what I want, though, really.
Jun 21 03:13:42 <summatusmentis> lol
Jun 21 03:14:56 <GeneralAntilles> s/I/you/
Jun 21 03:14:56 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Do what you want, though, really.
Jun 21 03:14:57 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Jun 21 03:15:07 <rm_you> lol
Jun 21 03:15:12 <summatusmentis> :-D
Jun 21 03:15:21 <GeneralAntilles> My evil controlling personality slipped through there for a sec. :P
Jun 21 03:15:42 <GeneralAntilles> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_name#Overview
Jun 21 03:20:09 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: take a look at this basic idea
Jun 21 03:20:12 <rm_you> and tell me what you think
Jun 21 04:30:05 <nelson> ds3: p;ing
Jun 21 04:30:09 <nelson> ds3: ping
Jun 21 04:59:58 <ds3> nelson: pong
Jun 21 05:34:10 <lopz> night
Jun 21 05:47:44 <ds3> Hmmm
Jun 21 05:51:13 <pomelo> anyone tried to run Adobe AIR apps on N800?
Jun 21 07:16:02 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, ping
Jun 21 07:29:49 <Khertan> lcuk > thx for the mail about my phone on garage :)
Jun 21 07:30:29 <Khertan> but i  don t really care, as i can activate filter on my phone :)
Jun 21 07:31:10 <Khertan> and as i ve some domain in .fr
Jun 21 07:31:44 <lcuk> or anyone else thats no problem khertan, just some people dont realise quite where their details end up after entering them
Jun 21 07:31:55 <lcuk> -or anyone else
Jun 21 07:38:58 <Khertan> :)
Jun 21 07:39:15 <Khertan> look at khertan.net
Jun 21 07:39:47 <Khertan> same thing:)
Jun 21 07:39:49 <Khertan> so today it s my first day of holiday ...
Jun 21 07:51:34 <mikey> hi
Jun 21 07:52:17 <mikey> anyone around for a couple of (prob dumb) questions?
Jun 21 07:52:26 <acydlord> perhaps
Jun 21 07:53:36 <mikey> I am thinking of updating the OS on my n800 to the latests; I have only Apple and Linux boxes and I don't want to lose using Navicore GPS - any info or comment?
Jun 21 07:55:56 <mikey> I have downloaded RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and 770Flasher-2.0.dmg already, btw
Jun 21 07:56:42 <mikey> I just wondered if anyone knows that using this updated OS is ok woth the GPS software that came with my n800?
Jun 21 07:58:04 <acydlord> do you have the navicore serial key still?
Jun 21 07:58:09 <mikey> also if anyone had used the 770Flasher reliably with either a Intel macMini or G4 powerBook?
Jun 21 07:58:12 <mikey> yes
Jun 21 07:58:17 <mikey> I have all the serials etc
Jun 21 07:58:35 <acydlord> if you still have the serial key thats all you need to use navicore on the updated os
Jun 21 07:58:46 <mikey> fab; one question settled
Jun 21 07:59:20 <acydlord> and i dont know about using the 770 flasher on osx, i've only done it on linux and windows
Jun 21 07:59:38 <mikey> doing it with the flasher GUI or command line from a terminal on macOSX(10.5.5) - any thoughts?
Jun 21 07:59:39 <mikey> ok
Jun 21 07:59:47 <mikey> typing at the same time :-)
Jun 21 08:00:14 <mikey> I have Kubuntu on a backup box
Jun 21 08:00:15 <acydlord> using the osx terminal should work the same as in linux i would assume
Jun 21 08:01:09 <mikey> pretty much the same - although I don't particularly like BSD-based linux
Jun 21 08:01:28 <mikey> thanks for your input
Jun 21 08:01:43 <acydlord> welcome
Jun 21 08:06:17 <AlgorithmicContr> my n800 plays .mp4 terribly
Jun 21 08:06:33 <acydlord> .mp4 is for suckers
Jun 21 08:06:37 <AlgorithmicContr> May someone help me?
Jun 21 08:06:41 <AlgorithmicContr> acydlord: I know
Jun 21 08:07:58 <acydlord> what media player are you using to play mp4?
Jun 21 08:09:33 <AlgorithmicContr> acydlord: I'm going to convert it, what are you guidelines?
Jun 21 08:10:17 <acydlord> i have most of my audio in flac, and my video in divx
Jun 21 08:10:45 <acydlord> mplayer seems to be able to handle just about anything i've thrown at it so far though
Jun 21 08:18:06 <AlgorithmicContr> acydlord: I'll use ffmpeg to convert
Jun 21 08:18:12 <AlgorithmicContr> or tablet-encode
Jun 21 08:20:02 <acydlord> the nifty little video encoder for maemo works pretty good
Jun 21 08:20:31 <acydlord> ffmpeg would probably give you better quality though
Jun 21 08:22:47 <tank-man> what was the mp4? audio? video?
Jun 21 08:22:59 <tank-man> mp4 is the container
Jun 21 08:23:25 <acydlord> probably video if using ffmpeg to convert
Jun 21 08:31:53 <mouse> just a report back for info for future users: I just used the GUI method on an Intel macMini to update the OS. Required removal of additiional storage card and switching on after running GUI. Hope this helps others
Jun 21 09:04:38 * Jaffa wishes he still had a Mac just so he could rename and tweak 770Flasher.app :-/
Jun 21 09:05:27 <acydlord> i need to reinstall the x toolchain on my mac
Jun 21 10:45:43 <qwerty12> Jaffa, ping
Jun 21 10:48:47 <Jaffa> qwerty12: pong
Jun 21 10:48:53 <Jaffa> milhouse!
Jun 21 10:50:03 <qwerty12> It doesn't matter sorry, I've been working to try and get tablet-encode with the gui working under windows. According to a site, perl doesn't like fork being used.
Jun 21 10:50:23 <Jaffa> I thought that'd been fixed now.
Jun 21 10:51:17 <qwerty12> It may be an old version of Perl, I'm not sure. I tried the latest ActivePerl but it doesn't have the Gtk-perl and ppd is messed up to hell on that.
Jun 21 10:51:24 <qwerty12> *ppm
Jun 21 10:54:44 <Jaffa> Would  be cool to get it working. First thing first: a simple Gtk-Perl app which doesn't do anything fancy (possibly just commenting out the fork line of tablet-encode) and take it from there. The fork()'s only necessary for progress updates - it's not integral to the functioning of the GUI.
Jun 21 10:54:57 <Jaffa> More users => hopefully more patches to get a better GUI for it
Jun 21 11:02:56 <qwerty12> Ok, I installed GTK2-Perl into the latest ActivePerl. Gui shows up fine, Open and Save Dialogs are fine (except I have to choose to show "All Files"; not the default "Video Files") but when it comes to encoding, I get panic: restartop which equals the fork stuff. I'll try some modding on that.
Jun 21 11:11:59 <Jaffa> qwerty12: cool, thanks. I'll try and get Gtk2-Perl installed on my work laptop, though I tend to use cygwin rather than ActiveState
Jun 21 11:13:21 <qwerty12> Jaffa, Great, I don't mind switching to cygwin to use tablet-encode or anything. Thanks for looking into it.
Jun 21 11:29:47 <acydlord> hmm, i wonder if maemo ruby is vulnerable to the bugs
Jun 21 11:31:23 <acydlord> anywho off to bed, 'ta
Jun 21 11:34:56 <lcuk810> sHHT HOW DO I UNDO CAPSLOCK ON 810?
Jun 21 11:36:09 <Veggen> lcuk: another tap at shift?
Jun 21 11:36:46 <lcuk810> QQQqQQQQQqQ SINGLE TAP WORKS BUT DOUBLE FAILS
Jun 21 11:37:52 <AStorm> lcuk810: I suggest a reboot
Jun 21 11:38:04 <AStorm> seen that once myself too
Jun 21 11:38:12 <AStorm> I suspect a hildon-input-method bug
Jun 21 11:38:17 <lcuk810> AGREED
Jun 21 11:40:12 <lcuk810> well i seem to have managed it by connecting apple kb, but the capslock light (which i never knew it had) is blinding me its not right at all back in a min
Jun 21 11:43:27 <lcuk810> well thats better, how bizarre
Jun 21 11:44:54 <lcuk810> ive got a database related q, has anyone found any tools to read access databases?
Jun 21 11:48:03 <AStorm> you mean, like, sqlitemanager?
Jun 21 11:48:16 <AStorm> uhm, I mean, sqlitebrowser
Jun 21 11:48:34 <lcuk810> that ca n read (and convert from) MS access ?
Jun 21 11:50:43 <lcuk810> infact the conversion would be secondary, its reading from - if i can get at thedata inside i can do the conversion myself as required.  i was thinking programatic interface though
Jun 21 11:51:25 <AStorm> it's just sqlite
Jun 21 11:51:38 <AStorm> you can go at it with Python's support for example
Jun 21 11:51:40 <AStorm> or just libsqlite
Jun 21 11:52:15 <lcuk810> sqlite cannpt open ms access databases can it?  i thought it handled its own format `(which i am already using)
Jun 21 11:52:48 <AStorm> ahh, ms access
Jun 21 11:52:51 <AStorm> ;>
Jun 21 11:52:57 <AStorm> there are some libs I think
Jun 21 11:52:58 <lcuk810> ill have a look when i get my big computer back
Jun 21 11:53:26 * lcuk810 can hear thomas the tank engine movies on youtube atm
Jun 21 11:53:46 <AStorm> lol
Jun 21 11:54:17 <lcuk810> iiiiiiiits amazing when a 6 year old is in charge
Jun 21 11:54:24 <lcuk810> ffs
Jun 21 11:55:50 <pomelo> someone knows how to cook the os2008 rom, so many apps are useless for me or have better successors...
Jun 21 11:56:26 <lcuk810> just buildl it how you like and take a fullsystem clone
Jun 21 11:56:45 <lcuk810> read up on the clone to mmc articles
Jun 21 11:57:43 <lcuk810> added benefit, if it all goes pearshaped and a regular user would have to reflash, you can just boot from original partition and have everything working still
Jun 21 11:58:40 <pomelo> where can i find the link to that article
Jun 21 11:58:51 <lcuk810> iiiiiiii think theres a link for it on google
Jun 21 11:59:24 * lcuk810 has gremlins today
Jun 21 11:59:40 <AStorm> hehe
Jun 21 12:02:30 <lcuk810> gonna make a brew, anyone want one
Jun 21 12:10:03 <lcuk810> hahaha jake just sung "no time for losers, cos we are the trafford centres of the world"
Jun 21 12:10:12 <crashanddie> just had a nice idea for the NIT
Jun 21 12:10:21 <crashanddie> I often use my laptop, about as much as my NIT
Jun 21 12:10:38 <crashanddie> But sometimes, I'd love to just be able to send over a link/file/action that displays immediately on the NIT
Jun 21 12:11:07 <rm_you> crashanddie: yeah i know what you mean... i always have to like, SSH in, drop a link in a text file, open it....
Jun 21 12:11:09 <rm_you> annoying
Jun 21 12:11:11 <crashanddie> I think I'll write a daemon on the NIT that will listen for incoming files/links and handle their opening, if possible
Jun 21 12:11:26 <crashanddie> then a small client on my laptop, right click, "send to NIT"
Jun 21 12:11:27 <rm_you> or AIM it to myself
Jun 21 12:11:31 * lcuk810 sends crash random pictures
Jun 21 12:11:34 <rm_you> crashanddie: I vote for that :P
Jun 21 12:11:34 <crashanddie> would be kinda awesome
Jun 21 12:11:38 <kkrusty> how do you get involved in a project for maemo?
Jun 21 12:11:49 <rm_you> kkrusty: find a project you're interested in
Jun 21 12:11:55 <rm_you> and ask the people in charge
Jun 21 12:12:02 <rm_you> or start off by just submitting patches
Jun 21 12:12:08 <lcuk810> or write something that makes people smile
Jun 21 12:12:10 <crashanddie> kkrusty, usually works best when you have something to give to the project
Jun 21 12:12:26 <lcuk810> development work initially should be for your number one customer: do things that interest you
Jun 21 12:12:30 <crashanddie> kkrusty, say you wrote a feature and would like it to be reviewed/added to the project
Jun 21 12:12:37 <rm_you> a lot of projects on garage.maemo.org have trackers that list tasks that need to be done... if you submit patches for them, they might like you :P
Jun 21 12:12:47 <rm_you> but really, you need to get to know the developers here and just offer :P
Jun 21 12:13:15 <crashanddie> rm_you, I had that idea a few nights back
Jun 21 12:13:24 <rm_you> crashanddie: so do it :)
Jun 21 12:13:36 <crashanddie> Have to finish my contract
Jun 21 12:13:40 <crashanddie> then I'll have free time
Jun 21 12:13:40 <rm_you> ?
Jun 21 12:13:42 <lcuk810> kkrusty, find a problem or limitation that bugs you personally.  do something about it and see where it gets you.  if you dont end up being involved totally, you will have cured your own annoyance
Jun 21 12:14:04 <crashanddie> lcuk810, that's indeed quite healthy
Jun 21 12:15:07 <lcuk810> well the very first oss project i got involved with was flashblock on firefox - it stopped working when they released a new flash (8 i think) and i diagnosed and found the problem and solution :)
Jun 21 12:15:08 <kkrusty> lcuk810: I take it that you've seen you're share of committment-less volunteers :)
Jun 21 12:15:43 <lcuk810> no kkrusty, ive only been a volunteer myself and when i put my mind to something i do it :)
Jun 21 12:15:58 <kkrusty> lcuk810: No kidding! I use that after hearing about crap loads of vurnabilities in flashplayer
Jun 21 12:15:59 <crashanddie> kkrusty, I don't think it has anything to do with lack of commitment
Jun 21 12:16:06 <lcuk810> but ive found my own scratch and am itching it nicely
Jun 21 12:16:24 <crashanddie> kkrusty, just as the same as getting helpdesk burnout, you get burnt out quite fast if you're working for something you don't give bollocks about
Jun 21 12:16:46 <lcuk810> kkrusty, remember though: flashblock DOES NOT remove flash before it runs, it replaces it after its started
Jun 21 12:16:54 <lcuk810> it is not a security solution
Jun 21 12:17:16 <crashanddie> wouldn't a greasemonkey script be able to handle the flash loading ?
Jun 21 12:17:27 <kkrusty> lcuk810: hmm. I didnt know that. Thanks for that info
Jun 21 12:17:31 <lcuk810> greasemonkey works on the DOM already built and included
Jun 21 12:17:50 <crashanddie> lcuk, yeah, but it happens before the body onload, right ?
Jun 21 12:18:16 <crashanddie> lcuk810, and flash only gets run ()'d once the onload is hit, IIRC ? No ?
Jun 21 12:18:22 <lcuk810> i believe adblock manages to do it before its included, but that has not been confirmed by myself and i dont trust anything.  if you are worried about security, disable the plugin
Jun 21 12:19:24 <Jaffa> Hmm, getting *loads* of spam on the new wiki
Jun 21 12:19:27 <lcuk810> i used to use proximatron to filter things before inclusion but that died
Jun 21 12:19:43 <lcuk810> jaffa, i noticed on the community talk page and removed it this morning
Jun 21 12:20:12 <lcuk810> if you insist on open access would it be feasible to use a turing test?
Jun 21 12:20:38 <rm_you> Jaffa: quick question about tablet-encode...
Jun 21 12:21:03 <rm_you> Jaffa: it seems to be ignoring the bitrate I am setting in the preset...
Jun 21 12:21:18 <rm_you> I had to go in and hardcode the bitrate I want >_> any idea why it would do that?
Jun 21 12:21:24 <rm_you> is there a max bitrate?
Jun 21 12:21:49 <Jaffa> lcuk810: I'd be willing to lock out anonymous access, TBH. Anyone editing must have an account.
Jun 21 12:22:18 <lcuk810> well i was surprised i was allowed again, i think until a different solution was found it might be a good idea
Jun 21 12:23:08 <Jaffa> rm_you: if you're re-encoding a DivX file, it doesn't over-encode: i.e. if the preset's bitrate is higher than the effective bitrate per pixel (plus overhead) of the original video, the preset's bitrate is scaled proportionally.
Jun 21 12:23:12 <lcuk810> jaffa, have you caught up with dr who yet?
Jun 21 12:23:43 <rm_you> Jaffa: ah that MIGHT be it
Jun 21 12:23:53 <Jaffa> lcuk810: a couple of bad days of weather, a free Internet connection, a relatively cheap wifi connection in the campsite bar and my N810 meant we watched them both - including last week's on Sunday :-)
Jun 21 12:23:59 * Jaffa looking forward to tonights. Muchly.
Jun 21 12:24:02 <rm_you> oo, has the next ep after the library aired yet?
Jun 21 12:24:12 <rm_you> ah tonight?
Jun 21 12:24:23 <Jaffa> rm_you: yeah, it was a really effective, scary, single one - _Midnight_ - last week.
Jun 21 12:24:31 <rm_you> I have to wait about three hours after they air to watch them
Jun 21 12:24:33 <lcuk810> :) jaffa im not allowed to take real computers on holiday
Jun 21 12:25:02 <Jaffa> Library was a 2 parter, Midnight was last week and tonight's is looking *veeery* good and looks to be the start of a 3-parter to end the season (like last year)
Jun 21 12:25:04 <lcuk810> and rm_you you are 1 ep ehind i think, last weeks wasnt the library i dont think
Jun 21 12:25:21 <rm_you> ah?
Jun 21 12:25:28 <Jaffa> lcuk810: Mrs Jaffa's N810 entertains Jaffa Jr with Thomas the Tank Engine, Underground Ernie and Tikkabilla episodes
Jun 21 12:25:30 <rm_you> I know library was a two parter, i just saw the second one
Jun 21 12:25:31 * lcuk810 wants rose to have his babies
Jun 21 12:25:35 <rm_you> LOL
Jun 21 12:25:43 <crashanddie> ok
Jun 21 12:25:45 <rm_you> rose kinda annoyed me >_>
Jun 21 12:25:55 <crashanddie> I just had an idea 'bout the maemo logo and wanted to expose it
Jun 21 12:26:04 <lcuk810> jaffa my youngest nicks my big pc, its a bit frustrating using internet at the moment
Jun 21 12:26:19 <crashanddie> but considering a wasp attacked me while I was typing it, I'm guessing this is a sign that the idea was bad
Jun 21 12:26:26 <rm_you> lol
Jun 21 12:26:31 <lcuk810> actually, jaffa you've been away, i posted a video of my liqbase thing have you seen it?
Jun 21 12:26:34 * Jaffa 's son has his own, slightly broken old ThinkPad he uses.
Jun 21 12:26:40 <rm_you> I had an idea for the logo, but it was way too... gradeschool / summercamp
Jun 21 12:26:46 <Jaffa> lcuk810: Yeah, saw your plug for the video: *very* cool stuff
Jun 21 12:27:00 <rm_you> lcuk810: you should release a new beta :P
Jun 21 12:27:00 <Jaffa> rm_you: can't be any worse than rsperberg's ;-)
Jun 21 12:27:16 <rm_you> lcuk810: and the source for it! :P
Jun 21 12:27:23 <rm_you> lol
Jun 21 12:27:24 <lcuk810> and its getting better each day - its totally stable and the amount of data ive produced has forced me to build a database
Jun 21 12:27:56 <rm_you> Jaffa: hand-drawn sketch of what it would kind of look like: http://ageofikon.info/maemo-wip.png
Jun 21 12:28:00 <rm_you> it is... bad <_<
Jun 21 12:28:05 <rm_you> i scrapped that idea
Jun 21 12:28:24 <rm_you> also, was lost about how to do the a and e :P
Jun 21 12:29:13 <rm_you> the idea was to do a construction theme, as maemo is being built by all of us
Jun 21 12:29:23 <rm_you> but "construction" looks kind of "gradeschool" >_>
Jun 21 12:29:37 <lcuk810> rm_you, if i release the source to the xv library ready for people to build modules with nice fast stuff, what would you use it for: what do you wanna build for your 8x0?
Jun 21 12:29:58 <Jaffa> rm_you: that could look very cool if the elements involved were as well drawn as, say, the OS X icons.
Jun 21 12:30:04 <rm_you> lcuk810: I want you to release the entire app so I can play with it :P
Jun 21 12:30:28 <rm_you> Jaffa: yeah I was gonna sketch it out and decide if i wanted to spend the time doing it in inkscape
Jun 21 12:30:41 <rm_you> cause i'm SLOOOOW in inkscape
Jun 21 12:30:45 <lcuk810> well the book reader isnt a finished app, the sketch is in serious development and im not going to be sidetracked by that part
Jun 21 12:31:04 * Jaffa isn't sure it'd beat the butterfly and moebius concepts in my preference, but it could :-)
Jun 21 12:31:11 <rm_you> yeah...
Jun 21 12:31:15 <rm_you> atilla's is ... awesome
Jun 21 12:31:25 <rm_you> as is the pixel dot / moebius thing
Jun 21 12:31:33 <crashanddie> lcuk810, just watched the video
Jun 21 12:31:38 <crashanddie> lcuk, kinda awesome, I have to admit, really
Jun 21 12:31:47 <lcuk810> the butterfly says "dp" and i laugh everytime i see it.  i like the one that looks like a sketch stroke ending with the circled M
Jun 21 12:31:54 <rm_you> crashanddie: yeah, but he's just teasing us, he refuses to release anything :P
Jun 21 12:32:03 <lcuk810> theres a pre beta somewhere
Jun 21 12:32:11 <lcuk810> playtest :)
Jun 21 12:32:13 <rm_you> lcuk810: enough about the pre-beta]
Jun 21 12:32:15 <crashanddie> just one question
Jun 21 12:32:18 <rm_you> release another build :P
Jun 21 12:32:20 <rm_you> like your current one
Jun 21 12:32:27 <crashanddie> lcuk810, where the fuck are you from ?
Jun 21 12:32:28 <rm_you> let people play
Jun 21 12:32:37 <crashanddie> "lynux teeg"
Jun 21 12:32:39 <lcuk810> crashanddie, why
Jun 21 12:32:56 <rm_you> lol? i dont think I caught that
Jun 21 12:33:20 <crashanddie> "these are notes from back at lynux teeg"
Jun 21 12:33:45 <crashanddie> sounded like a remix between welsh and australian
Jun 21 12:34:00 <crashanddie> no offense eh lcuk810 :P
Jun 21 12:34:17 <lcuk810> crashanddie, it was improvised speech i wasnt even gonna release that one - if you noticed i closed the program accidentally in the middle and left it in slow mode whilst drawing and the code reader scrolled way offscreen stuff but just worked through it.   if the camera hadnt ran out of batteries i wouldv retook
Jun 21 12:34:40 <lcuk810> and known what i was gonna say...
Jun 21 12:34:46 <crashanddie> lcuk810, I don't think it's bad really
Jun 21 12:35:19 <crashanddie> lcuk810, honestly, I'm getting pretty tired of all these reviews that are polished and show everything *but* the lesser parts
Jun 21 12:35:21 <lcuk810> good.. :P
Jun 21 12:35:49 <crashanddie> so for once, showing an honest to god "this is how it is, for real" really isn't bothering, always better than getting it and saying "hey but you didn't show that !"
Jun 21 12:36:37 <lcuk810> crashanddie, after my time at linuxteeeg im not going to worry about showing unpolished things, i cocked up so badly whilst standing in front of people that nothing else matters.  ive had the worst experience ill ever have and everything can be better from thereon
Jun 21 12:36:51 <crashanddie> lcuk810, still, you didn't answer: where are you from ?
Jun 21 12:36:58 <crashanddie> lcuk810, oh well, it can be worse, trust me
Jun 21 12:37:07 <lcuk810> hang on, lemme get a lock and ill tell you
Jun 21 12:37:27 <crashanddie> lcuk810, wednesday morning: final exam, 1h30 long oral presentation...
Jun 21 12:37:41 <rm_you> lol we dont need your GPD coords, just country of origin :P
Jun 21 12:37:53 <rm_you> *GPS
Jun 21 12:38:00 <lcuk810> crashanddie, i have not been in a room with more than about 10 people professionally in many years, and ive never stood infront of them
Jun 21 12:38:23 <crashanddie> I was supposed to write an app on the NIT that managed basins or (just fishtanks, really)
Jun 21 12:38:30 <rm_you> someday i want to be presenting at one of those linux conferences >_>
Jun 21 12:38:47 <crashanddie> for some fucked up reason, someone replaced the server I wrote with something that sent out XML that didn't validate against my XML schema...
Jun 21 12:39:07 <crashanddie> And as it happens, there was an exception I didn't catch...
Jun 21 12:39:18 <crashanddie> So basically... The only thing my app did was segfault the whole time
Jun 21 12:39:28 <aquatix> sounds like my stuff
Jun 21 12:39:38 <lcuk810> lol
Jun 21 12:39:38 <crashanddie> w00t, awesome guys ! Thanks for the help !
Jun 21 12:40:00 <crashanddie> well, not segfault, rather just uncaught exception...
Jun 21 12:40:04 <aquatix> rm_you: see you at FOSDEM next year? :)
Jun 21 12:40:13 <lcuk810> crashanddie, :) ok you are right, i shall hold up every bad experience against yours and know that iiiiiiiits all alright :)
Jun 21 12:40:39 <crashanddie> :(
Jun 21 12:40:57 <lcuk810> lol crashanddie you brought t on yourself with your nickname
Jun 21 12:40:58 <Stskeeps> the law of demos: they never work when there's spectators
Jun 21 12:40:58 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 21 12:41:21 <crashanddie> word
Jun 21 12:41:34 <lcuk810> right, dinner time, back later
Jun 21 12:42:39 <crashanddie> "well sir, would you like to try and install the application ? Fine, just go in the application manager, yes that's right, settings, application manager, now go to installable software, my category, double tap it... And you'll it's just going to download it from the repository and install it all by itself"
Jun 21 12:42:55 <crashanddie> "whatdyamean, it fails ?"
Jun 21 12:42:55 <Jaffa>  will not be changed; be sure to check for double or broken redirects. You are responsible for making sure that links continue to point where they are supposed to go.
Jun 21 12:43:07 <Jaffa> Doh. Jaffa Jr on my lap
Jun 21 12:47:21 <rm_you> aquatix: would love to be there :P
Jun 21 13:00:17 <aquatix> rm_you: ever been there?
Jun 21 13:55:36 <rm_you> aquatix: haven't ever been to Europe :P
Jun 21 13:55:48 <rm_you> aquatix: I do want to go though, especially Germany
Jun 21 13:56:00 <rm_you> aquatix: I might have the money by next year
Jun 21 13:56:05 <rm_you> we'll see
Jun 21 13:56:20 <rm_you> I almost dropped everything and went to linuxtag this year >_>
Jun 21 13:56:30 <lcuk> you shouldv
Jun 21 13:56:32 <lcuk> it was good
Jun 21 13:56:34 <rm_you> yeah :/
Jun 21 13:56:40 <rm_you> I was poor tho
Jun 21 13:56:48 <lcuk> and you oculdv hacked my machine and grabbed the binary and source :P
Jun 21 13:57:00 <rm_you> lcuk: I still can if you give me those GPS coords :P
Jun 21 13:57:16 <lcuk> im in manchester england, where r u
Jun 21 13:57:19 * rm_you is still a student
Jun 21 13:57:29 * lcuk is still learning
Jun 21 13:57:36 <rm_you> I oscillate between Texas and Washington State
Jun 21 13:57:53 <rm_you> got one more year left and then I'm unleashed upon the world :)
Jun 21 13:58:01 <lcuk> ahhh yes, ive asked before, i think its the time you are awake that throws me
Jun 21 13:58:06 <rm_you> yeah lol
Jun 21 13:58:09 <rm_you> about to go to sleep
Jun 21 13:58:14 <rm_you> 7am >_>
Jun 21 13:58:39 <lcuk> sunrise always makes me feel woozy
Jun 21 13:58:50 <rm_you> yeah
Jun 21 13:59:01 <lcuk> i look around after a long night coding and think "shiiiiit"
Jun 21 13:59:04 <rm_you> I look outside now and if it is light out I wonder wtf i'm doing awake
Jun 21 13:59:15 <rm_you> that includes when i first wake up
Jun 21 13:59:33 <rm_you> i open my eyes, pull open the blinds, see the sun, and go back to sleep
Jun 21 13:59:38 <lcuk> lol - its more disconcerting though to go sleep in daytime and wake up when its dark
Jun 21 13:59:54 <rm_you> eh, for a while i woke up at midnight
Jun 21 13:59:57 <rm_you> THAT is odd
Jun 21 14:00:02 <lcuk> theres no clues about what rough time it is, at least with the sun you know where the shadows fall
Jun 21 14:00:16 <rm_you> waking up when your roommates are going to bed is strange
Jun 21 14:00:36 <rm_you> it isnt quite as bad if you can at least be awake for a few hours with people <_
Jun 21 14:01:10 <lcuk> yer, but its harder work than just not fighting the system and just sleeping at regular times
Jun 21 14:01:19 <lcuk> it also means you may get a job as well :P
Jun 21 14:01:20 <rm_you> meh...
Jun 21 14:01:24 <rm_you> truth
Jun 21 14:01:27 <rm_you> I need a job...
Jun 21 14:01:37 <rm_you> been living off $3 a day for two weeks
Jun 21 14:01:48 <lcuk> become a bounty hunter and track down my code :D
Jun 21 14:01:54 <rm_you> thats basically a pack of hot dogs and buns, plus average expenses for ketchup <_<
Jun 21 14:02:05 <rm_you> for two weeks
Jun 21 14:02:14 <lcuk> cant you just go to the diner and "borrow" sachets of ketchup?
Jun 21 14:02:15 <rm_you> I *need* a job
Jun 21 14:02:19 <rm_you> :P
Jun 21 14:02:28 <rm_you> I do that with napkins
Jun 21 14:02:51 <lcuk> lol @ rush in with pants round ankles "need some napkins, k thx bye"
Jun 21 14:02:53 <rm_you> i finally got a pot a few days ago so I can cook $1 packs of pasta
Jun 21 14:03:21 <rm_you> $8 for a 12 pack of Mac&Cheese <_<
Jun 21 14:03:25 <lcuk> you need more than a job, you need a woman
Jun 21 14:03:29 <rm_you> heh
Jun 21 14:03:39 <rm_you> women is why i'm this poor right now
Jun 21 14:03:50 <lcuk> turn off your nokia, choose a path and get yourself in order (and cut your hair as well :P)
Jun 21 14:04:23 <rm_you> if women werent in the picture I could at least afford some salad >_>
Jun 21 14:04:41 <rm_you> anyway, I should go sleep now, gotta release 0.9b soon
Jun 21 14:04:59 <rm_you> *I* try to keep with the "release early and often" ideal
Jun 21 14:05:03 * rm_you glares
Jun 21 14:05:04 <lcuk> we should discuss soon about how to do packaging :) you can give me some pointers
Jun 21 14:05:17 <lcuk> gnite anyway
Jun 21 14:05:21 <rm_you> heh, I suck at debian packaging... I got inz to do it for me :)
Jun 21 14:05:25 <lcuk> i release often as well :)
Jun 21 14:05:28 <lcuk> lol
Jun 21 14:05:28 <rm_you> pft
Jun 21 14:05:35 <rm_you> when was your last release?
Jun 21 14:05:47 <lcuk> about an hour ago, i think the smells gone from the bathroom now
Jun 21 14:05:49 <aquatix> re
Jun 21 14:05:50 <rm_you> like three months ago? >:/
Jun 21 14:05:53 <rm_you> pft
Jun 21 14:05:58 <aquatix> germany is overrated ;)
Jun 21 14:06:02 <rm_you> lol
Jun 21 14:06:05 <lcuk> germany is impressive
Jun 21 14:06:05 * aquatix lives in the netherlands
Jun 21 14:06:22 <rm_you> Deutschland ist uber alles? ^_^
Jun 21 14:06:27 <lcuk> rm_you, if i knew what i was releasing i would
Jun 21 14:07:05 * rm_you took like two years of German classes
Jun 21 14:07:18 * aquatix likes Dutch better
Jun 21 14:07:27 <aquatix> but i'm slightly biase
Jun 21 14:07:29 <aquatix> *biased
Jun 21 14:07:34 <rm_you> I think if I went to Germany and spoke to people in my horrible German, they'd understand what I'm saying and then politely tell me just to speak english
Jun 21 14:07:53 <aquatix> maybe
Jun 21 14:08:00 <aquatix> but a lot of germans don't speak english
Jun 21 14:08:00 <lcuk> then when they heard your english they would just tell you to shutup :P
Jun 21 14:08:04 <rm_you> lol
Jun 21 14:08:14 <rm_you> I can speak very eloquently when I try :)
Jun 21 14:08:15 <aquatix> lcuk: *g*
Jun 21 14:08:42 <rm_you> ooo Desperado is on!
Jun 21 14:08:48 <lcuk> go to bed!
Jun 21 14:08:53 <rm_you> but
Jun 21 14:08:55 <rm_you> >_>
Jun 21 14:09:08 * aquatix thinks he should watch some Lost
Jun 21 14:09:09 <rm_you> aquatix: you tested 0.9b yet?
Jun 21 14:09:11 <lcuk> your future self will thank you for not inflicting it on desperado
Jun 21 14:09:22 <aquatix> rm_you: erm, 0.9b of what?
Jun 21 14:09:27 <rm_you> ABL
Jun 21 14:09:32 * aquatix hasn't been following the conversation
Jun 21 14:09:35 <rm_you> you use it right?
Jun 21 14:09:40 <rm_you> sorry, that was out of nowhere :P
Jun 21 14:09:53 <rm_you> following the conversation wouldnt have helped
Jun 21 14:10:00 * aquatix is thinking what `abl' was standing for again
Jun 21 14:10:07 <rm_you> or wait, maybe it would have. but whatever.... you use  -
Jun 21 14:10:07 <aquatix> man, i need some coffee
Jun 21 14:10:11 <rm_you> advanced backlight :P
Jun 21 14:10:14 <aquatix> oh yes!
Jun 21 14:10:17 <rm_you> I just made that up
Jun 21 14:10:20 <aquatix> no, don't have the new one yet
Jun 21 14:10:20 <rm_you> shhh
Jun 21 14:10:27 <rm_you> 0.9b is in extras-devel
Jun 21 14:10:34 <rm_you> just download the deb and try it out
Jun 21 14:10:37 <rm_you> tell me if it breaks
Jun 21 14:10:40 <aquatix> cool
Jun 21 14:10:42 <aquatix> sec...
Jun 21 14:10:54 <rm_you> if it works decently I'll be moving it to extras by sunday night
Jun 21 14:11:01 * lcuk has practically no space on his nokia
Jun 21 14:11:06 <rm_you> I was hoping to release by friday, but ... <_<
Jun 21 14:11:11 <crashanddie> lcuk, I have 2megs left :/
Jun 21 14:11:12 <rm_you> I need to do root on SD
Jun 21 14:11:21 <rm_you> i am almost entirely out of space as well
Jun 21 14:11:40 <rm_you> but i have 20G of SD space
Jun 21 14:11:43 <crashanddie> I'd like to wait for Diablo though
Jun 21 14:11:45 <lcuk> crashanddie, pretty much similar, i had to uninstall loads of things just to get gcc and all dev libraries squashed on there :) but it runs better than ever now
Jun 21 14:11:47 <lcuk> go figure..
Jun 21 14:12:00 <crashanddie> cuz that would mean no flashing anymore
Jun 21 14:12:01 <aquatix> advanced-backlight_0.9b-1_i386.deb ?
Jun 21 14:12:08 <rm_you> armel
Jun 21 14:12:12 <crashanddie> so, one install, and you're done
Jun 21 14:12:13 <aquatix> oh duh
Jun 21 14:12:18 <rm_you> :P
Jun 21 14:12:20 <crashanddie> cuz if I install now
Jun 21 14:12:22 <lcuk> rm, whats the 386 one for?
Jun 21 14:12:28 * aquatix has been downloading too many deb's for his normal machine lately
Jun 21 14:12:29 <rm_you> Xephyr?
Jun 21 14:12:33 <crashanddie> I'll have to redo the whole thing once Diablo is out
Jun 21 14:12:37 <rm_you> dunno, i dont normally build it
Jun 21 14:12:39 * Jaffa is wondering if the resolution of #184 which has just been applied, to OS2006 is a "FFS" moment.
Jun 21 14:12:41 <lcuk> does it dim the LCD monitor?
Jun 21 14:12:45 <rm_you> its part of the autobuilder process
Jun 21 14:12:49 <rm_you> lol no idea
Jun 21 14:12:51 <rm_you> prolly not
Jun 21 14:13:00 <lcuk> jaffa, link or context would help
Jun 21 14:13:10 <rm_you> the autobuilder that X-Fade had me use made that
Jun 21 14:13:11 * lcuk is not a mindreader
Jun 21 14:13:17 <lcuk> ahhh
Jun 21 14:13:38 <crashanddie> "My balls ain't made of crystal"
Jun 21 14:13:52 <lcuk> did you create the whole project in debian like format and folders or did you have to rejig everything when you started to do packaging
Jun 21 14:14:48 <Jaffa> lcuk: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=184 - "Sorry, closing bug like wontfix. No enhancement is planned for it2006.
Jun 21 14:14:49 <Jaffa> "
Jun 21 14:15:05 <Jaffa> Ah, no, makes sense in light of comment #12
Jun 21 14:15:08 <rm_you> lcuk: I really only had like 4 files... one .c and .h, a makefile and a .desktop
Jun 21 14:15:16 <rm_you> so... i just added the debian/ folder
Jun 21 14:15:35 <rm_you> mmmm
Jun 21 14:15:37 <lcuk> good point, mine is a sprawling collection of many classes
Jun 21 14:15:43 <rm_you> So, I'm sitting there. And in walks the biggest Mexican I have ever seen. Big as shit. Just walks right in like he owns the place.
Jun 21 14:16:20 <rm_you> I love the guy that's saying that... In pretty much every film he's in
Jun 21 14:16:31 <rm_you> Steve Buscemi
Jun 21 14:16:43 <aquatix> rm_you: ok, installed; is a remove from panel and add again enough for a reload?
Jun 21 14:16:48 <rm_you> he was awesome in the sopranos too
Jun 21 14:16:51 <aquatix> updating the icon cache takes ages btw
Jun 21 14:16:58 <rm_you> aquatix: yes
Jun 21 14:16:59 <crashanddie> oh dear god, thank the heaven and the earth
Jun 21 14:17:00 <rm_you> lol
Jun 21 14:17:01 <rm_you> yes
Jun 21 14:17:09 <lcuk> jaffa, expecting a bugfix like that is like expecting MS to fix bugs ion win3.1
Jun 21 14:17:29 <Jaffa> lcuk: agreed, all I saw was a resolution in my inbox and panicked :)
Jun 21 14:17:33 <Jaffa> Time for more BSG now.
Jun 21 14:17:33 <crashanddie> I managed to repair my AC unit :D I finally have fresh air :D
Jun 21 14:17:54 <lcuk> :O bsg i knew i had something i needed to watch (i havent seen any of this series yet)
Jun 21 14:18:34 <lcuk> crashanddie, if i break my air conditioning unit it gets colder in the house.  damn kids with balls and double glazed windows
Jun 21 14:18:35 <aquatix> whuh
Jun 21 14:18:48 <aquatix> *crash* :)
Jun 21 14:19:03 <crashanddie> heh
Jun 21 14:19:07 <rm_you> heh
Jun 21 14:19:09 <rm_you> yeah
Jun 21 14:19:11 <crashanddie> it's like 42 here
Jun 21 14:19:12 <aquatix> rm_you: i clicked the speaker icon
Jun 21 14:19:15 <rm_you> it crashes like that
Jun 21 14:19:21 <rm_you> it's in the buglist
Jun 21 14:19:26 <aquatix> and it crashed my gui
Jun 21 14:19:26 <rm_you> remove/add
Jun 21 14:19:28 <aquatix> ok
Jun 21 14:19:29 <rm_you> yeah
Jun 21 14:19:39 <aquatix> now my panels are gone
Jun 21 14:19:39 <rm_you> just uncheck -> apply -> check -> apply
Jun 21 14:19:46 <rm_you> it'll come back
Jun 21 14:19:53 <rm_you> that bug is annoying the crap out of mwe
Jun 21 14:19:58 <aquatix> erm, applets i mean
Jun 21 14:20:00 <rm_you> and I can't seem to track it down
Jun 21 14:20:07 <rm_you> they will return
Jun 21 14:20:26 <lcuk> how often does it happen and is it reproducable
Jun 21 14:20:39 <rm_you> once
Jun 21 14:20:43 <rm_you> per install
Jun 21 14:20:50 <rm_you> and it's almost guaranteed
Jun 21 14:20:55 <aquatix> does it have to do with beep on volume change?
Jun 21 14:20:55 <rm_you> every time i change out the .so
Jun 21 14:20:58 <rm_you> no
Jun 21 14:21:01 <aquatix> ok
Jun 21 14:21:03 <aquatix> as it didn't ;)
Jun 21 14:21:12 <rm_you> i can trace it back till like... 0.7
Jun 21 14:21:13 <lcuk> you just switch it dont you in a preinst script
Jun 21 14:21:24 <rm_you> i know it has something to do with the volume CHANGE
Jun 21 14:21:30 <rm_you> but i dont know wtf
Jun 21 14:21:33 <lcuk> i seem to recall it leaving a phantom file there right at the start when you gave me a prebeta to try
Jun 21 14:21:41 <rm_you> i checked, double-checked, triple checked those functions
Jun 21 14:21:52 <aquatix> seems to work fine for the rest
Jun 21 14:21:55 <rm_you> lcuk: i mean, ANY time i change out the .so
Jun 21 14:22:00 <aquatix> except that my applets still haven't shown up
Jun 21 14:22:05 <rm_you> aquatix: yes, even volumje change will work fine now
Jun 21 14:22:10 <lcuk> see how other applets install themselves and make sure the older instance is not running
Jun 21 14:22:18 <rm_you> aquatix: ... if you uncheck advanced, apply, they should come back
Jun 21 14:22:34 <rm_you> lcuk: yeah i know how to do that, just remove the .desktop and it auto unloads
Jun 21 14:22:38 <aquatix> oh, they are all unchecked
Jun 21 14:22:40 <aquatix> weird stuff
Jun 21 14:22:41 <rm_you> I am planning to do that for official 0.9b
Jun 21 14:22:44 <lcuk> untick/tick unloads and reloads, until then if you havent told hildon that the applet has been changed it thinks the app is still the old one?
Jun 21 14:22:53 <rm_you> lcuk: no, i mean..
Jun 21 14:23:01 <rm_you> ok, listen to this scenario
Jun 21 14:23:05 <rm_you> this is how i reproduce it:
Jun 21 14:23:12 <aquatix> there, all back
Jun 21 14:23:20 <lcuk> rm_you, you need to give it some time to unload though? and different machines will recognise its gone in different times (busy cpu etc)
Jun 21 14:23:54 <rm_you> change a line of code, build the .so, properly unload the applet, copy the new .so over via scp, load the applet, change volume -> crash
Jun 21 14:24:07 <rm_you> if I copy the same.so over without modifying it, the crash won't happen
Jun 21 14:24:30 <rm_you> it will happen even if i reboot inbetween, i believe
Jun 21 14:24:39 <rm_you> actually, i will check that
Jun 21 14:24:53 <rm_you> the crash happens when one of the volume change functions gets called
Jun 21 14:24:56 <rm_you> i KNOW that
Jun 21 14:25:02 <lcuk> reboot on NIT is misnomer - it never seems to manage to shutdown errant software
Jun 21 14:25:05 <rm_you> but i've checked everything in there
Jun 21 14:25:15 <lcuk> how are you ensuring the .so is unloaded?
Jun 21 14:25:40 <rm_you> i thought for a while it was gconf stuff that was uninitialized, but i covered that scenario and it didnt help
Jun 21 14:25:42 <rm_you> lcuk: erm...
Jun 21 14:25:49 <rm_you> lcuk: well, this happens even on fresh installs
Jun 21 14:26:00 <rm_you> but, i have an unload point thing...
Jun 21 14:26:23 <rm_you> https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/advanced-backlight.c?root=adv-backlight&rev=6&view=markup
Jun 21 14:26:25 <lcuk> no, from outside the app how would a script or something know that it was safe to delete and replace the .so?
Jun 21 14:26:35 <rm_you> it wouldn't >_>
Jun 21 14:27:12 <rm_you> the function that causes the crash:
Jun 21 14:27:12 <rm_you> static void set_volume_gconf(HildonVolumebar *localvbar, gpointer user_data)
Jun 21 14:27:14 <rm_you> or
Jun 21 14:27:18 <rm_you> static void mute_volume_gconf(HildonVolumebar *localvbar, gpointer user_data)
Jun 21 14:27:30 <rm_you> what they have in common is they use the gconf object
Jun 21 14:27:51 <rm_you> gconf_client_set_int(ggclient, ... ... ...)
Jun 21 14:28:11 <rm_you> which I *know* has the capability of crashing the system when used wrong, or when uninitialized
Jun 21 14:28:23 <rm_you> but i check for that in set_volume)gconf, and it doesn't help
Jun 21 14:29:44 <lcuk> hmmm, you declare your variables: GConfClient * ggclient;  without an initializer, however then later you check against NULL.    might be an idea to pre-initialize them: GConfClient * ggclient=NULL;
Jun 21 14:30:03 <rm_you> does it not automatically initialize as NULL?
Jun 21 14:30:08 <lcuk> just to make sure in your own head that its NULL to begin with
Jun 21 14:30:10 <lcuk> no
Jun 21 14:30:16 <rm_you> >_>
Jun 21 14:30:42 <lcuk> assume NO variable is preinitialized to any value unless explicitely specified by you
Jun 21 14:30:53 <lcuk> this isnt visual basic
Jun 21 14:30:56 <lcuk> :P
Jun 21 14:31:01 <rm_you> I don't use VB :P
Jun 21 14:31:04 <rm_you> I use Java and C++
Jun 21 14:31:11 <rm_you> and PHP
Jun 21 14:31:21 <rm_you> all of those auto-null
Jun 21 14:31:23 <rm_you> AFAIK
Jun 21 14:31:29 <rm_you> IIRC
Jun 21 14:31:36 <rm_you> *insert hedging word here*
Jun 21 14:33:03 <lcuk> in an event driven system where code can be run before where you think it is run you should do all you can to help :)  i would go at this problem by adding some sort of logging at all function head/foot to indicate the run order :)
Jun 21 14:33:39 <lcuk> if you get other bugs like this and you've initialized everything add the logging and walk the code
Jun 21 14:34:10 <rm_you> yeah
Jun 21 14:34:27 <rm_you> https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/advanced-backlight.c?root=adv-backlight&rev=8&view=markup
Jun 21 14:35:15 <lcuk> int lastvalue=0;   int allow_zero=0; and the rest??? :P
Jun 21 14:35:16 <rm_you> https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2593&group_id=564&atid=2114
Jun 21 14:35:17 <rm_you> >_<
Jun 21 14:35:22 <rm_you> hrm
Jun 21 14:35:35 <rm_you> those don't cause problems, I believe, tho you have a point >_>
Jun 21 14:36:31 <rm_you> should the struct be NULL?
Jun 21 14:37:32 <lcuk> pointers should be nulled, i tend to stay away from global static structures where i can help it but force init with struct abc a = {0}; or similar
Jun 21 14:37:47 <lcuk> to force the initial fields used for testing are null
Jun 21 14:38:41 <lcuk> is there a test script included in the source, if so i can compile and test and compile and test for you if you like
Jun 21 14:38:51 <rm_you> test script?
Jun 21 14:39:06 <lcuk> yer something to install it without the .deb
Jun 21 14:39:07 <rm_you> like, stage directions type of script?
Jun 21 14:39:10 <rm_you> ah
Jun 21 14:39:13 <rm_you> I removed that :/
Jun 21 14:39:19 <rm_you> I could grab it again
Jun 21 14:39:21 <lcuk> lol thats ok, how do you do testing
Jun 21 14:39:31 <rm_you> I just scp the file into place
Jun 21 14:39:44 <lcuk> without removing all the other stuff?
Jun 21 14:39:52 <lcuk> or unitializing it?
Jun 21 14:40:24 <rm_you> oh
Jun 21 14:40:26 <rm_you> steps:
Jun 21 14:40:36 <rm_you> uncheck applet, apply
Jun 21 14:40:41 <rm_you> scp file into place
Jun 21 14:40:46 <rm_you> recheck applet, apply
Jun 21 14:40:49 <rm_you> change volume
Jun 21 14:41:34 <lcuk> ill take a look in a bit and see if i can configure my env to get it working
Jun 21 14:41:43 <lcuk_afk> back later
Jun 21 14:41:52 <rm_you> kk
Jun 21 14:41:53 <rm_you> will try this
Jun 21 14:42:40 <rm_you> wow, i just got a crash on unloading it
Jun 21 14:43:54 <rm_you> well
Jun 21 14:43:55 <rm_you> didnt crash
Jun 21 14:43:58 <rm_you> maybe that was it?
Jun 21 14:44:06 <rm_you> won't be able to tell for sure without a LOT of testing tho
Jun 21 14:44:32 <rm_you> that may be what I get for assuming things get automatically declared as NULL like in Java
Jun 21 14:44:36 <rm_you> and PHP
Jun 21 14:44:45 <rm_you> and other semi-intelligent languages >_>
Jun 21 14:45:01 <lcuk_afk> c expects an intelligent human :)
Jun 21 14:45:02 <lcuk_afk> :P
Jun 21 14:45:19 <lcuk_afk> update your latest and ill see if i can reproduce and cleanse for you
Jun 21 14:45:21 <rm_you> maybe it shouldnt O_o
Jun 21 14:45:29 <lcuk_afk> then use another language
Jun 21 14:45:33 <rm_you> k i am committing
Jun 21 14:45:36 <rm_you> i wanted to
Jun 21 14:45:44 <rm_you> C is the only thing supported well for statusbar apps
Jun 21 14:45:54 <rm_you> Java on NIT is not really an option
Jun 21 14:46:08 <rm_you> python has like half of the hildon libraries BROKEN
Jun 21 14:46:19 <rm_you> C++ isn't fully implemented either
Jun 21 14:46:24 <rm_you> only C >_<
Jun 21 14:48:18 * Stskeeps hugs his debian installer
Jun 21 14:51:47 <rm_you> damn, didn't fix it
Jun 21 14:51:52 <rm_you> still crashed
Jun 21 14:51:56 <rm_you> on volume change
Jun 21 14:54:04 <lopz> hola
Jun 21 14:54:27 <summatusmentis> hi lopz
Jun 21 14:54:31 <summatusmentis> and qwerty12
Jun 21 14:54:38 <qwerty12> hi summatusmentis :)
Jun 21 14:54:42 <lopz> heya summatusmentis !
Jun 21 14:55:02 * summatusmentis puts on his Wal-Mart greeter's vest
Jun 21 14:55:14 <qwerty12> heh
Jun 21 14:55:26 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, pong.
Jun 21 14:55:29 <rm_you> lcuk_afk: well, i will mess with it more tomorrow... currently everything I have is committed. I am wondering if maybe the update_icon there is breaking due to something with my character arrays? I will check
Jun 21 14:55:32 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: yo
Jun 21 14:55:50 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: working on #2593
Jun 21 14:56:10 <GeneralAntilles> Don't throw those numbers at me like our tracker is bugzilla. :P :D
Jun 21 14:56:14 <rm_you> https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2593
Jun 21 14:56:15 <rm_you> lol
Jun 21 14:56:45 <rm_you> heading to sleep... bbl
Jun 21 14:56:53 <GeneralAntilles> Later
Jun 21 14:58:44 <qwerty12> Hmm, anyone know what idev is? (Kernel wise)
Jun 21 14:59:13 <aquatix> an apple device
Jun 21 14:59:20 <aquatix> i kid, i kid ;)
Jun 21 14:59:37 <aquatix> bbiab
Jun 21 15:01:54 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, ping.
Jun 21 15:08:05 <qwerty12> ~lart headset for not staying charged
Jun 21 15:08:05 * infobot whips headset with a wet and grimy noodle just because for not staying charged
Jun 21 15:08:23 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, ping.
Jun 21 15:11:24 <summatusmentis> qwerty12: an idev in what context?
Jun 21 15:12:34 <qwerty12> summatusmentis, I wish I knew :/, I'm looking at the nokia kernel source and I'm looking into retu-headset.c and I see a lot of idev's, I'm just curious
Jun 21 15:13:50 <summatusmentis> basing it on my vanilla kernel source, looks like an idev is either a struct input_dev, or a struct input_polled_dev, or a struct inet6_dev
Jun 21 15:14:19 <qwerty12> Hmm, input_polled_dev or input_dev makes sense, thanks
Jun 21 15:14:31 <summatusmentis> and it's used in drivers for ati remote's, so I'm assuming it's an input device
Jun 21 15:15:13 <qwerty12> Yeah, I guess the headset button counts as input. I'm trying to get it to do something useful instead of making the screen light up.
Jun 21 15:15:41 <summatusmentis> can you paste one of the lines using an idev?
Jun 21 15:17:27 <qwerty12> A bit more than a line: http://pastebin.pl/1345 :/
Jun 21 15:22:58 <lardman> afternoon all
Jun 21 15:22:58 <leachim6_> Hey
Jun 21 15:23:10 <qwerty12> Hi
Jun 21 15:23:36 <lcuk_afk> GeneralAntilles, its ok now, just damn spamming on the wiki is bad, i wasnt aware anon edits were allowed - i just culled it from the page where i saw it
Jun 21 15:23:50 <GeneralAntilles> Hi, lardman.
Jun 21 15:23:52 <lcuk_afk> hi lardman!   just woke up after your boozing session?
Jun 21 15:24:01 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk_afk, I went ahead and blocked 127.0.0.1 for 24 hours.
Jun 21 15:24:07 <GeneralAntilles> We need to discuss the anon edit situation
Jun 21 15:24:12 <lardman> not far off, hang-over from hell this morning
Jun 21 15:24:27 <lardman> went out for dinner with some friends, bad to mix wine + beer repeatedly
Jun 21 15:24:32 <lcuk_afk> ummm GeneralAntilles i sense a flaw in your plan
Jun 21 15:24:41 <aquatix> lardman: sounds fun ;)
Jun 21 15:25:01 <lardman> aquatix: I blame it on my not drinking much this week, liver's not used to it any more :)
Jun 21 15:25:11 <aquatix> heheh, same here
Jun 21 15:25:15 <aquatix> not drinking enough
Jun 21 15:25:17 <lcuk_afk> i think a turing test would be good, get people to answer questions only NIT owners would know the answers of
Jun 21 15:25:35 <leachim6_> can you install the canola2 mediaservers plugin on os2006 ?
Jun 21 15:25:39 <aquatix> like `what is advanced backlight and why does it crash on click?'
Jun 21 15:25:50 <leachim6_> it doesn't seem to be in the canola repo
Jun 21 15:25:52 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk_afk, lol. I wonder if there's a CAPTCHA plugin we could do that with.
Jun 21 15:26:10 <GeneralAntilles> I actually REALLY like that idea.
Jun 21 15:26:34 <lcuk_afk> i was just gonna remove the afk, btu im being called away again, back later
Jun 21 15:26:36 <lardman> lcuk_afk, GeneralAntilles: I don't know the answer to that, ask something like what's written in the version string in the control panel
Jun 21 15:26:51 <lardman> what's the problem anyway?
Jun 21 15:27:02 <lcuk_afk> porn spam
Jun 21 15:27:09 <leachim6_> owch
Jun 21 15:27:13 <lcuk_afk> actually, its worse: BAD porn spam
Jun 21 15:27:20 <lardman> email, or itt?
Jun 21 15:27:26 <GeneralAntilles> maemowiki
Jun 21 15:27:27 <lcuk_afk> wiki
Jun 21 15:27:28 <qwerty12> lol
Jun 21 15:27:30 <lardman> ah, ok
Jun 21 15:27:44 <lcuk_afk> malformed porn spam with dead links into google docs or something
Jun 21 15:28:15 <aquatix> ah, so not even any fun
Jun 21 15:28:19 <leachim6_> lol
Jun 21 15:28:24 * lcuk_afk wouldnt have complained if it was relivent, but im not going to invoke rule 34 and 35 on it
Jun 21 15:28:37 <leachim6_> so how do I get the canola media servers plugin ?
Jun 21 15:28:55 <aquatix> apt? :)
Jun 21 15:29:01 <leachim6_> I tried
Jun 21 15:29:05 <leachim6_> It's not in there
Jun 21 15:29:24 <leachim6_> I go to the canola site and click install and application manager says "not found?"
Jun 21 15:30:06 * aquatix tries too
Jun 21 15:30:06 <lcuk_afk> the install is setup only for latest os i think
Jun 21 15:30:07 <aquatix> sec
Jun 21 15:30:13 <GeneralAntilles> leachim6_, it's in Extras.
Jun 21 15:30:23 <leachim6_> how do I do it
Jun 21 15:30:25 <lcuk_afk> hes asking for 2006 i think
Jun 21 15:30:29 <leachim6_> I am
Jun 21 15:30:33 <aquatix> oh
Jun 21 15:30:35 <lardman> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=193902&postcount=693
Jun 21 15:30:37 <leachim6_> I had os2008 on here ... but it was painfully unstable
Jun 21 15:30:38 <lardman> makes me happy :)
Jun 21 15:30:53 <GeneralAntilles> leachim6_, did you enable swap?
Jun 21 15:31:18 <leachim6_> yeah
Jun 21 15:31:21 <leachim6_> that made it usable
Jun 21 15:32:00 <qwerty12> Is com.nokia.osso_hp_ls_controller.headset a bluez/bluetooth thing?
Jun 21 15:32:43 <leachim6_> who owns eko.one.pl ?
Jun 21 15:33:35 <aquatix> meh, are the maemo repositories down or something
Jun 21 15:34:00 <GeneralAntilles> Fine here, aquatix.
Jun 21 15:34:12 <leachim6_> well the ones on eko.one.pl are
Jun 21 15:34:16 <leachim6_> and that has becomeroot
Jun 21 15:34:19 <leachim6_> so I can't do anything
Jun 21 15:34:26 <GeneralAntilles> nitapps.com easyroot
Jun 21 15:34:31 <leachim6_> thanks
Jun 21 15:35:27 <leachim6_> nitapps.com only has stuff for nokia n810
Jun 21 15:35:31 <leachim6_> I am a 770
Jun 21 15:35:33 <leachim6_> *havwe
Jun 21 15:35:35 <leachim6_> grr....
Jun 21 15:35:36 <leachim6_> *have
Jun 21 15:35:39 <lardman> qwerty12: no idea, why do you ask?
Jun 21 15:35:59 <aquatix> ah, they work again indeed
Jun 21 15:36:56 <GeneralAntilles> leachim6_, easyroot works on everything.
Jun 21 15:37:02 <leachim6_> I got it
Jun 21 15:37:13 <qwerty12> lardman, Someone's written code to make a button on the bluetooth headset to make the media player play and pause. I want to try and make it work with the wired headset but I'm not sure if com.nokia.osso_hp_ls_controller.headset is for wired, bluetooth or both.
Jun 21 15:37:20 <leachim6_> are there any canola devs in here ?
Jun 21 15:37:27 <qwerty12> Go to #canola
Jun 21 15:37:30 <GeneralAntilles> ^
Jun 21 15:37:43 <lardman> qwerty12: I see. Good luck :)
Jun 21 15:37:49 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: pong
Jun 21 15:37:58 <Jaffa> lardman: lo
Jun 21 15:38:06 <lardman> hi Jaffa
Jun 21 15:38:33 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: I guess the 127.0.0.1 IP is cos Apache is proxying to HTTPS and so we don't see the real IP. Effectively, therefore, banning 127.0.0.1 is banning anon edits over HTTP (AFAICT)
Jun 21 15:38:40 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, I blocked 127.0.0.1 for 24 hours.
Jun 21 15:38:49 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, that's correct, Jaffa.
Jun 21 15:38:55 <GeneralAntilles> I also upgraded your user permissions. ;)
Jun 21 15:39:09 <GeneralAntilles> We need to discuss the anon edit situation, though.
Jun 21 15:39:14 <Jaffa> Ta :)
Jun 21 15:39:26 <lcuk_afk> hey jaffa, now you finally have more admin rights than the buttyboy
Jun 21 15:39:33 <GeneralAntilles> Personally, I like lcuk's NIT questions CAPTCHA.
Jun 21 15:40:26 <lardman> bmidgley: ping
Jun 21 15:40:43 <Jaffa> Has mediawiki got a captcha plugin?
Jun 21 15:40:48 <Jaffa> We need a Talk page on it
Jun 21 15:40:58 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, I was looking over them.
Jun 21 15:41:05 <GeneralAntilles> There may be a built-in one.
Jun 21 15:45:16 <Jaffa> http://wiki.maemo.org/Meta:Anonymous_editing
Jun 21 15:47:05 <qwerty12> ~lart DBUS for being a PITA
Jun 21 15:47:05 * infobot takes out a seltzer bottle and sprays DBUS in the face. You know, one of those old-school seltzer bottles clowns have? Yeah those. Anyway, consider yourself spritzed for being a PITA
Jun 21 15:48:02 <lardman> :)
Jun 21 15:50:05 <qwerty12> Ah, I'm looking at the SessionBus, I've changed it to system and the program isn't conking out on me now :)
Jun 21 15:53:50 <lardman> oops, of the kernel variety
Jun 21 15:54:27 <qwerty12> I'm still unsure how to use that Nokia tool to read oops/kernel panics from a mtd device :/
Jun 21 15:54:41 <lardman> interesting what Igor said about the IVA and how the MMU can access its peripherals (that was my reading anyway)
Jun 21 15:55:14 <lardman> qwerty12: no idea, I just see them whenever a DSP task fails its poll message
Jun 21 15:56:08 <qwerty12> :)
Jun 21 15:59:32 <lcuk_afk> lardman, where did you read the iva/mmu stuff - that kinda fits in with what i read about the other co-processors
Jun 21 15:59:36 <lardman> wow, almost 2s of noise now :)
Jun 21 15:59:50 <lardman> lcuk_afk: the link I gae above to itt
Jun 21 16:00:03 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, 6 more months and we'll be able to get a whole 3 minute song? :D :P
Jun 21 16:00:09 <lcuk_afk> the one i didnt scrollbackto ;)
Jun 21 16:00:19 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: never know ;)
Jun 21 16:00:37 <lardman> lcuk_afk: In the ITT thread on what do we want to see in the N900
Jun 21 16:01:43 <lardman> last page
Jun 21 16:02:30 <lcuk_afk> ahem https://wiki.maemo.org/Meta:Anonymous_editing
Jun 21 16:02:37 <lcuk_afk> lardman, just saw
Jun 21 16:02:42 <lcuk_afk> thanks
Jun 21 16:03:59 <GeneralAntilles> We can ban specific IPs over https
Jun 21 16:05:30 <lcuk_afk> don't ban me for testing :'(
Jun 21 16:06:57 <lardman> ah, I think I see the mistake
Jun 21 16:16:31 <Proteous> BAN BAN BAN
Jun 21 16:17:10 <Proteous> She turned me into a newt!
Jun 21 16:17:16 <Proteous> "A newt?"
Jun 21 16:17:22 <Proteous> Well, I got better
Jun 21 16:19:04 <lardman> hi ssvb
Jun 21 16:19:11 <ssvb> hi
Jun 21 16:19:58 <lardman> 4.5s now :)
Jun 21 16:20:24 <lardman> ssvb: I've implemented on chip memory only SARAM though and 32bit memcpy, but still too slow
Jun 21 16:21:04 <ssvb> and what was the previous benchmark result?
Jun 21 16:21:12 <lardman> about 1.5s
Jun 21 16:21:24 <lardman> so it's better, but still not real time
Jun 21 16:23:25 <gpd>  anyone got a 'simple' way to export maemo-mapper poi.db waypoints to KML?
Jun 21 16:24:08 <gpd> I have extracted to CSV but now need to get to KML - possibly via some other format via GPSbabel - but all a bit of a pain
Jun 21 16:25:12 <ssvb> lardman: and how much does it take to process one file without using bluetooth stack? just to estimate how much slower than realtime it is?
Jun 21 16:25:34 <lardman> ssvb: I'll have a look see
Jun 21 16:26:13 <ssvb> lardman: there is one more problem: memory shared with DSP is not cached from the ARM side
Jun 21 16:26:50 <ssvb> lardman: so it is much slower to access from ARM core as well
Jun 21 16:26:50 <lardman> I'm using a bulk transfer rather than a shared buffer
Jun 21 16:27:08 <ssvb> lardman: do you think it makes a big difference?
Jun 21 16:27:32 <lardman> ssvb: not really, as I'd need to make a similar number of calls somehow to keep synchronised
Jun 21 16:29:19 <lardman> hmm, curiously when encoding a file at default settings, the sw method takes longer than the DSP method
Jun 21 16:30:00 <lardman> actually the same time -> sw = 1.82+0.17+0.25s DSP = 1.72+0.17+0.35s
Jun 21 16:30:56 <lardman> hmm, but that's my fall back method, and it doesn't play very well actually
Jun 21 16:31:21 <ssvb> lardman: and how many arm<->dsp communication operations are performed?
Jun 21 16:31:35 <lardman> Let me see if I have an old copy of sbcenc from the old Bluez
Jun 21 16:31:36 <ssvb> lardman: this is also a bit slow
Jun 21 16:31:51 <lardman> ssvb: ~5000
Jun 21 16:32:17 <ssvb> lardman: and what is the duration of audio file?
Jun 21 16:32:43 <lardman> ssvb: no idea, it's not actually in the correct format
Jun 21 16:32:52 <lardman> I can't seem to find any BE 32bit test files
Jun 21 16:33:08 <lardman> .au files that is
Jun 21 16:34:06 <ssvb> lardman: can you decode this file to .wav and try to see the duration of this wav in any audio player?
Jun 21 16:34:51 <lardman> ssvb: let me see with one of the longer files
Jun 21 16:36:09 <lcuk_afk> ssvb, quick sidetrack,  the glyph blitter from yesterday.  i improved it further by restoring the 16bit copy if required after the 32bit and before the final 8bit (instead of just jumping from 32 to do upto 3 single bytes).  this gave me another similar boost.   in the things i am blitting this fine tuning gives a boost because most glyphs are small and of odd lengths most of the time anyway (common to only be looping for <16pixe
Jun 21 16:36:09 <lcuk_afk> ls).
Jun 21 16:39:17 <lardman> ssvb: Right, 29s au file. SW decoder = 3.52+3.39+0.12s, DSP decoder = 19.38+0.24+3.70s
Jun 21 16:40:53 <ssvb> lardman: and how many chunks of data are fed to dsp per second on average?
Jun 21 16:44:17 <ssvb> lardman: I did some simple 'ping' test, and looks like you can only have ~2500 arm<->dsp communication operations per second on N8x0
Jun 21 16:44:42 <lardman> ssvb: ok, am just recompiling with gprof so I can see how many calls are made
Jun 21 16:44:51 <ssvb> lardman: that's with dsp doing nothing and returning immediately
Jun 21 16:45:33 <ssvb> lardman: feeding dsp with larger buffers can improve performance if that's the case
Jun 21 16:45:37 <lardman> ssvb: unfortunately I'm stuck with only passing 256 8bit bytes every time
Jun 21 16:45:51 <ssvb> lardman: that's way too low
Jun 21 16:46:05 <lardman> unless I want to dig far deeper into the way Bluez handles its data
Jun 21 16:46:07 <lardman> yeah I knpw
Jun 21 16:47:08 <ssvb> lardman: but you can experiment with a standalone sbcenc program
Jun 21 16:47:30 <lardman> yes, but that's not very much use for people :)
Jun 21 16:47:55 <ssvb> lardman: first you need to figure out the source of the bottleneck :)
Jun 21 16:48:36 <lardman> ssvb: Yeah, I know
Jun 21 16:48:42 <ssvb> lardman: in order not waste efforts optimizing parts of code which are not performance critical at the moment
Jun 21 16:49:43 <qwerty12> Well, I did it, now the headset button actually plays/pauses the song instead of looking pretty and making my backlight come on.
Jun 21 16:49:53 <ssvb> lardman: can you try the opposite test, artificially double the number of arm<->dsp communications?
Jun 21 16:50:09 <lardman> ssvb: yes, should be possible
Jun 21 16:50:54 <lardman> strange, looks like data were passed only 5021 times
Jun 21 16:51:02 <lardman> that's strangely like the other file
Jun 21 16:51:03 <lardman> hmm
Jun 21 16:51:54 <lardman> ah, the other file was using the same data
Jun 21 16:52:22 <lardman> right, so 5021 ARM->DSP bulk transfers
Jun 21 16:52:32 <lardman> in ~20s it appears
Jun 21 16:53:53 <lardman> looks like I'm passing 256 16bit bytes in fact (which is probably right) the file is 2.5MB in size
Jun 21 16:56:46 <lardman> I looked at timing sbcenc calling the DSP and returning immediately, but as no data was being processed I could not fool sbcenc into stopping
Jun 21 16:57:19 <lardman> I need to take another look at that and then time with no data processing occuring (just returning an empty buffer)
Jun 21 16:58:30 <lardman> anyway, I'd guess that the time is being used up in the processing rather than the transferring
Jun 21 16:59:03 <ssvb> lardman: you can try using erm encoder and dummy dsp calls
Jun 21 16:59:43 <lardman> yes, I suppose the ARM encoder is quite quick
Jun 21 16:59:58 <ssvb> lardman: it's better not to guess, but benchmark, otherwise you can lose a lot of time by making a wrong decision at some moment :)
Jun 21 17:00:30 <lardman> ssvb: I know :) I was just doing a quick optimisation on the off chance it would work
Jun 21 17:01:35 <lardman> ssvb: I'll do some tweaking later on and fool the arm-side code into thinking I'm decoding when I'm not
Jun 21 17:02:29 <ssvb> lardman: anyway I wonder, wouldn't decoding on ARM core using VFP the best choice for sbc?
Jun 21 17:03:14 <lardman> ssvb: I was hoping to simply reduce the ARM load, not compete with it and write a faster decoder
Jun 21 17:03:54 <lardman> ssvb: I'm not sure about the relative speeds of vfp vs fixed point encoder speeds
Jun 21 17:04:58 <ssvb> lardman: VFP should be faster, it has higher peak throughput for multiply-accumulate operations
Jun 21 17:07:00 <ssvb> lardman: the problem is that VFP also has a lot worse latency, so code needs to be carefully optimized for it
Jun 21 17:09:05 <lardman> ssvb: Interesting that tremor is faster than vorbis
Jun 21 17:09:07 <ssvb> lardman: I just need to tune ffvorbis decoder a bit more, to make its advantage over tremor much more visible
Jun 21 17:09:16 <lardman> ah, ok :)
Jun 21 17:09:31 <lardman> ssvb: Well that's worth a look
Jun 21 17:09:54 <ssvb> lardman: it does not prove anything, libvorbis itself is just slow :)
Jun 21 17:09:59 <lardman> ssvb: I'll test to see what the dsp<->arm comms and copy overhead is and see if the code is the bottleneck
Jun 21 17:10:12 <lardman> ssvb: yeah, that was what I was going to ask - needs optimisation
Jun 21 17:10:50 <ssvb> lardman: communication and copy overhead is very interesting to know
Jun 21 17:11:02 <lardman> ssvb: There should also be lots of opportunities for dsp optimisation in the sbc code, which should be interesting
Jun 21 17:11:06 <lardman> I'll let you know how I get on
Jun 21 17:11:11 <lardman> got to go cook now
Jun 21 17:11:51 <ssvb> lardman: regarding libvorbis, I guess it was never developed for high performance, it is a reference decoder
Jun 21 17:14:10 <GeneralAntilles> Howdy, sjgadsby.
Jun 21 17:16:11 <sjgadsby> Heya.
Jun 21 17:20:51 * GOD27 Visit http://www.FakeMagazineCover.com (upload pic make mag) - http://www.SillyWebcam.com (play with webcam online) - http://www.Is-A-Jerk.com (insulter/anon email) - http://www.ComedySearchEngine.com (fun) - http://www.BodySwitcher.com (put your face on funny body) - http://www.MedChecker.com (health)
Jun 21 17:20:54 <GOD27> http://www.WHAK.COM EDY radio - http://www.MovieRumor.com (watch theater movies) - http://www.Web20Appz.com (appz) - http://www.ChatPhobia.com to (chat anywhere, web IRC client) - http://www.Canuckster.com (Canada eh) - http://www.Nerdful.com (geeks)
Jun 21 17:21:10 <GeneralAntilles> Fuckin' eh
Jun 21 17:21:34 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody have the old one handy? :\
Jun 21 17:21:59 <qwerty12> Motherfuckers
Jun 21 17:30:09 <RST38x> qwerty: who are the motherfuckers of the moment?
Jun 21 17:30:40 <qwerty12_N800> heh, some spammer setting the topic to porn sites
Jun 21 17:35:05 <RST38x> KILL, definitely
Jun 21 17:35:26 <GeneralAntilles> He left before he got the k-line. :(
Jun 21 17:39:24 <RST38x> track him down, destroy, then victoriouslly feast on his corpse!
Jun 21 17:40:16 * RST38x feels vengeful tonight  - gprs at the edge of coverage area sucks
Jun 21 17:44:39 <summatusmentis> RST38bis: that's rough
Jun 21 17:44:55 <summatusmentis> I'm probably going to sprint soon, w/ 1x data
Jun 21 17:45:59 <RST38bis> well, normally it is ok - just don't load images and prefer google mobile flavor
Jun 21 17:46:46 <RST38bis> but connection frequently drops when at the edge of the coverage
Jun 21 17:47:48 <GAN800> Diablo MicroB finally has the ability to turn images off from the menu. Woo
Jun 21 17:47:54 <sp3000> GeneralAntilles: can you reproduce https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3233#c4 on diablo?
Jun 21 17:48:45 <sp3000> or am I just confusing things and mixing up chinook and diablo variants of this sort of issue
Jun 21 17:48:46 <GAN800> Considering that's it's my bug, sp3000, then yes. ;)
Jun 21 17:48:58 <sp3000> well, no, but comment 4 specifically
Jun 21 17:49:01 <GAN800> s/that's/that/
Jun 21 17:49:01 <infobot> GAN800 meant: Considering that it's my bug, sp3000, then yes. ;)
Jun 21 17:49:17 <GAN800> Ah, ok, one sec.
Jun 21 17:50:06 <GAN800> Diablo xterm fixed most of the virtual input issues I was having in Chinook.
Jun 21 17:50:44 <sp3000> RST38bis: meh ...invite it back, /then/ kill it
Jun 21 17:50:58 <GAN800> Yeah, sp3000, that issue was fixed for Diablo. Works fine here.
Jun 21 17:51:00 <RST38bis> good idea
Jun 21 17:51:54 <sp3000> GAN800: so it was reproducible in chinook?
Jun 21 17:51:58 <sp3000> comment to that effect?
Jun 21 17:52:01 <sp3000> thanks :)
Jun 21 17:52:18 <GeneralAntilles> I think there's a bug for that xterm issue that I resolved, actually.
Jun 21 17:53:11 <sp3000> at some point there writing the str I got a feeling of deja vu :P
Jun 21 17:53:34 <sp3000> not quite sure if I wrote it last time and on which bugzilla, though
Jun 21 17:56:57 <GeneralAntilles> This is the one: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2633
Jun 21 17:57:17 <sp3000> oh, meh "return key"
Jun 21 18:00:18 <sp3000> oh well, bugzilla noise ftw :D
Jun 21 18:00:27 <GeneralAntilles> Woot
Jun 21 18:00:51 <GeneralAntilles> I'm just glad we're still under 10k bugs.
Jun 21 18:00:56 <GeneralAntilles> I can't imagine working with 500k
Jun 21 18:04:37 <RST38bis> ga: there is a more serious bug masking this one
Jun 21 18:05:13 <RST38bis> "can't invoke finger keyboard" on n810
Jun 21 18:06:39 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, the Apache crashes with the wiki make me :(((.
Jun 21 18:26:10 <summatusmentis> what're people's must have apps? I've read the ITT topic on it
Jun 21 18:27:06 <GeneralAntilles> summatusmentis, I'm pretty sure I already gave that list to you. :P
Jun 21 18:27:58 <RST38bis> summa: are you looking for something specific?
Jun 21 18:28:07 <Dekaritae> Something called openbox has appears in my application manager. It claims to be a new window manager
Jun 21 18:28:22 <GeneralAntilles> Dekaritae, don't bother with it.
Jun 21 18:28:47 <Dekaritae> How so?
Jun 21 18:29:05 <GeneralAntilles> If you don't know what it is, you don't need it. ;)
Jun 21 18:29:19 <Dekaritae> Okays
Jun 21 18:29:38 <summatusmentis> RST38bis: I'm not sure... no, nothing specific, I'm just trying to use my n810 to it's full potential
Jun 21 18:29:55 <summatusmentis> GeneralAntilles: oh, ok. I'll check my logs then
Jun 21 18:29:58 <Dekaritae> Is it one of those things that requires chroot to debian?
Jun 21 18:29:59 <sp3000> sigh, why do people's debian/control descriptions suck too often
Jun 21 18:30:28 <summatusmentis> what's a mae mouser?
Jun 21 18:30:30 <GeneralAntilles> sp3000, we need a bot that spams maintainers with crappy deb descriptions.
Jun 21 18:30:49 <kkrusty> new-maemo-user :D but I get your joke
Jun 21 18:31:08 <sp3000> GeneralAntilles: yeah, a bot made of meat most likely :P
Jun 21 18:31:12 <summatusmentis> lol, oh. that wasn't actually intended as a joke...
Jun 21 18:31:19 <newmaemouser> heh, hello
Jun 21 18:31:28 <summatusmentis> I apparently can't read
Jun 21 18:31:52 <RST38bis> fbreader, vagalume, canola, maemo mapper, numpty physiics,  pidgin, xchat, evince, color  lines
Jun 21 18:32:11 <kkrusty> summatusmentis: Well no, whitespace characters just became out of fashion
Jun 21 18:32:42 <kkrusty> no offense newmaemouser
Jun 21 18:32:49 <RST38bis> nethack, skype, battle gweled, stardict
Jun 21 18:32:50 <summatusmentis> RST38bis: I've got all of those i might use except vagalume and numpty physics :)
Jun 21 18:33:06 <GeneralAntilles> Numpty you have to try.
Jun 21 18:33:10 <GeneralAntilles> Tried Quake I/II, too?
Jun 21 18:33:18 <RST38bis> you 're all set then
Jun 21 18:33:23 <Dekaritae> I am still reading books on my Palm with Plucker because FBReader won't show me whether I've read a document or not
Jun 21 18:33:27 <newmaemouser> None taken, kkrusty
Jun 21 18:34:01 <GeneralAntilles> Dekaritae, file an enhancement request?
Jun 21 18:34:02 <summatusmentis> what books does FBreader read? where do you get them?
Jun 21 18:34:11 <RST38bis> dekaritae: you don't remember what you have read?
Jun 21 18:34:15 <newmaemouser> what is red pill mode - some type of dev mode?
Jun 21 18:34:18 <lcuk_afk> Dekaritae, sure it does, just open the book, if it opens at the end the chances are you have read it ;)
Jun 21 18:34:27 <Dekaritae> I use Sunrise XP to download a few dozen web sites and feeds for offline reading
Jun 21 18:34:43 <GeneralAntilles> summatusmentis, pretty much anything that's not DRM.
Jun 21 18:34:51 <RST38bis> summa: it will readd ascii and html
Jun 21 18:34:56 <lcuk> though some formats are faster than otehrs
Jun 21 18:35:02 <Dekaritae> lcuk_afk: The files are mostly feed compilations, and FBReader doesn't keep track of which links have been visited
Jun 21 18:35:09 <RST38bis> won'tt read drmed crap
Jun 21 18:35:20 <lcuk> its not an rss feed reader thats why ;
Jun 21 18:35:23 <GeneralAntilles> newmaemouser, if you don't know what it is you don't need it. ;) But, basically, it's an override mode for Application manager that disables some safety checks and opens up a few other options.
Jun 21 18:35:36 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk++
Jun 21 18:35:42 <Dekaritae> It doesn't need to be it just needs to be able to mark visited links as visited
Jun 21 18:35:51 <lcuk> )links?
Jun 21 18:35:55 <Dekaritae> hyperlinks
Jun 21 18:35:59 <summatusmentis> so... the places to go to get ebooks, outside of gutenburg, won't work with fbreader?
Jun 21 18:36:28 <GeneralAntilles> Baen and Tor have a bunch of non-drm stuff.
Jun 21 18:36:29 <RST38bis> deka: you are trying to use it for unnatural things
Jun 21 18:36:33 <lcuk> sorry, i thought you were talking about a book reader not a webbrowser
Jun 21 18:36:35 <GeneralAntilles> ^
Jun 21 18:36:40 <summatusmentis> also, fbreader isn't in extras?
Jun 21 18:36:41 <RST38bis> ssumma: lib.ru
Jun 21 18:36:51 <Dekaritae> I want to use it as an offline website reader because microB does not have decent reading controls
Jun 21 18:36:55 <GeneralAntilles> summatusmentis, they have their own damn repo for some damn reason. :\
Jun 21 18:36:55 <Jaffa> O.M.G. Next week's Doctor Who.... FFS
Jun 21 18:37:09 <RST38bis> summa: lib.rus.ec :]
Jun 21 18:37:09 <kkrusty> Dekaritae: httrack?
Jun 21 18:37:24 <Dekaritae> How would that help?
Jun 21 18:37:30 <summatusmentis> thanks
Jun 21 18:37:35 <lcuk> Dekaritae, :)i realise you want to do lots of thing and im not tryign to be difficult, but the software doesnt appear to have the full featureset you desire.  however its OSS perhaps you could make it do it
Jun 21 18:38:00 <kkrusty> I thought you meant that you need some way to get offline copies of websites to read. But I get what you want now... nevermind that
Jun 21 18:38:14 <newmaemouser> General, I was just trying to install rtcomm so I could get something more intergrated than pidgin, on your suggestion
Jun 21 18:38:28 <Dekaritae> No, everything up to the point of having the document in FBReader works perfectly, and it reads the documents perfectly
Jun 21 18:38:35 <GeneralAntilles> newmaemouser, add the Collabora repo from gronmayer and install the appropriate Telepathy plugin instead.
Jun 21 18:38:44 <GeneralAntilles> Little more robust for the time being.
Jun 21 18:38:48 <Dekaritae> Just that I open it up and have no idea if a particular document has been updated or not. Zero indicators
Jun 21 18:38:51 <lcuk> Dekaritae, perfect, so extend it a little :)
Jun 21 18:39:49 <lcuk> ive not heard of anyone wanting that feature yet, have you had a look on the site to see if its been requested by others?
Jun 21 18:40:27 * lcuk really should see if he can integrate liqbase rendering into fbreader 
Jun 21 18:40:39 <Dekaritae> I haven't found a bug tracker for it
Jun 21 18:41:08 <lcuk> http://www.fbreader.org/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php
Jun 21 18:42:00 <Dekaritae> Ha
Jun 21 18:42:03 <lcuk> heh :D http://www.fbreader.org/mantis/view.php?id=98
Jun 21 18:43:22 <lcuk> hmmmmm "I'd be willing to put up a bounty for this feature."
Jun 21 18:45:17 <summatusmentis> someone should hildonize oo.o
Jun 21 18:45:41 <lcuk> small job, could be done in a could of hours (given enough monkeys)
Jun 21 18:45:56 <lcuk> *couple
Jun 21 18:51:23 <summatusmentis> doesn't numpty physics get aggravating?
Jun 21 18:52:46 <kkrusty> summatusmentis: I find myself making slopes with a ball rolling for each level
Jun 21 18:53:19 <kkrusty> summatusmentis: I dont get past the level after the bridge level
Jun 21 18:53:22 <summatusmentis> but it just starts falling!!
Jun 21 18:53:36 <GeneralAntilles> PRess center dpad
Jun 21 18:53:56 <kkrusty> then you can have objects of different colors fall :D
Jun 21 18:54:12 * kkrusty kids
Jun 21 18:57:13 <newmaemouser> Chinook is the current version of the OS, correct?  Diablo is not out yet?
Jun 21 18:59:03 <Jaffa> Correct
Jun 21 18:59:41 <inz> Chinook is the current version of the SDK
Jun 21 19:05:37 <Jaffa> inz: that's not entirely clear or consistent, though. After all, the repos *for the device* refer to the codename; and correspond to a specific Maemo (SDK) version which is the underpinning of the OS.
Jun 21 19:05:50 <Jaffa> Hopefully, the new branding will make it clearer.
Jun 21 19:06:07 <GeneralAntilles> The new branding already does.
Jun 21 19:06:27 <GeneralAntilles> http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand#Definitions
Jun 21 19:06:33 <GeneralAntilles> See the "Maemo 4" entry.
Jun 21 19:06:47 <GeneralAntilles> "Maemo 4 - A specific Maemo release. Each release gets a codename first, corresponding to the name of a wind (i.e. Chinook). The codename is valid during the development phase, becoming Maemo n when it's launched."
Jun 21 19:13:10 <lcuk> Plucker Viewer:   whos seen it in action and does it do fullscreen scrolling?
Jun 21 19:13:39 <summatusmentis> oh.. that makes it easier :D
Jun 21 19:14:14 <summatusmentis> bye for now
Jun 21 19:16:10 <RST38bis> ppl will still use  codename after the release.
Jun 21 19:18:04 <GeneralAntilles> I know I will.
Jun 21 19:19:09 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: indeed. Chinook refers to Maemo 4 which is a version of Maemo which is an "Open source software platform for mobile devices". "maemo Linux based OS2008" (should really be "maemo Linux-based OS2008" IMHO) for pre-Fremantle refers to an OS release
Jun 21 19:19:56 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Jun 21 19:20:19 <Jaffa> Lawyers.
Jun 21 19:20:27 <GeneralAntilles> Amen
Jun 21 19:22:13 <lcuk> mrs lcuk is calling me a gimp :)(
Jun 21 19:22:22 <GeneralAntilles> I still want a straight answer on Maemo/Maemo OS. . . .
Jun 21 19:25:17 <lcuk> gah! sketching with the mouse is so wrong now.
Jun 21 19:25:55 <RST38bis> imho, this stuff is irrelevant and should be leftto nokia marketing
Jun 21 19:26:11 <summatusmentis> she's calling you a gimp?are you injured?
Jun 21 19:26:38 <RST38bis> powervr and jazelle supportt are relevant
Jun 21 19:26:44 <Jaffa> RST38bis: Except we get newbie users asking if "chinook is the current version of the OS", and inz correcting that chinook refers to an SDK version. Therefore it *isn't* irrelevant.
Jun 21 19:27:26 <RST38bis> jafffa: have a faq web page specifically for them
Jun 21 19:27:53 <Jaffa> but the point is there isn't an answer yet, so determining that answer is the current job
Jun 21 19:28:00 <RST38bis> and direct them there.
Jun 21 19:28:13 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa++
Jun 21 19:28:32 <RST38bis> jaffa: it is something nokia decides not community
Jun 21 19:30:28 <GeneralAntilles> RST38bis, you stick to what you think is important and we'll stick to things we think are important. :P
Jun 21 19:31:41 <RST38bis> all i am saying is that branding is completely up to nokia
Jun 21 19:32:16 <RST38bis> if they decide to mess it up, it will be messed up
Jun 21 19:32:40 <GeneralAntilles> Mostly, but it's certainly not "irrelevant"
Jun 21 19:32:50 <newmaemouser> I just installed telepathy, but I can't seem to add a new account other than google/jabber/etc. In chat
Jun 21 19:33:31 <lardman|afk> newmaemouser: you need to install the rtcom.garage.maemo.org beta
Jun 21 19:33:39 <RST38bis> ga:  irrelevant for developers, totally relevant for nokia
Jun 21 19:33:47 <Jaffa> RST38bis: but if we can ask questions and probe them, when we get newbies we can point them at those pages.
Jun 21 19:33:58 <Jaffa> RST38bis: not irrelevant for developers who are part of a wider maemo.org community
Jun 21 19:34:23 <Jaffa> Or, if you prefer, s/developers/anyone/
Jun 21 19:34:51 <GeneralAntilles> newmaemouser, you probably need to restart.
Jun 21 19:35:05 <GeneralAntilles> lardman|afk, he's installing the Collabora plugins.
Jun 21 19:35:29 <lardman|afk> ah ok, sorry for the noise
Jun 21 19:37:01 <newmaemouser> General - alright.  Just not used to rebooting in linux unless I update the kernel :)
Jun 21 19:37:49 <Jaffa> RST38bis: You're right, of course, that PowerVR (or, rather, accelerated 3D) and Jazelle (or, rather, a performant Java environment) are - ultimately - more important, both to developers and end-users and the community as a whole. *However*, there's nothing that can be done about them at the moment. We've raised our concern about these things to Nokia, and accelerated 3D does appear to be on the way at some point (future devices, probably). Jalimo is startin
Jun 21 19:38:01 <Jaffa> Java so Nokia are taking a backseat, and don't view it as a priority.
Jun 21 19:43:28 <GeneralAntilles> newmaemouser, did you install both the account-plugin-haze and telepathy-haze?
Jun 21 19:44:08 <newmaemouser> Just telepathy
Jun 21 19:44:31 <GeneralAntilles> Install the account-plugin-haze or accounts-telepathy-plugin or whatever it's called.
Jun 21 19:44:50 <GeneralAntilles> account-plugin-haze
Jun 21 19:45:53 <newmaemouser> That did it :)
Jun 21 19:46:17 <GeneralAntilles> Woo
Jun 21 19:47:04 <lardman|afk> Jaffa: There may be something we can do about both - work out how they work... :)
Jun 21 19:48:22 <Jaffa> lardman: truuuuueeeee, but I'm begining to suspect the N900 with OpenGL ES will be released running fremantle or harmattan before you finish bootstrapping PowerVR from PepperPad or other reverse engineering ;-)
Jun 21 19:48:38 <lardman> Jaffa: Agreed
Jun 21 19:48:48 <lardman> Jaffa: But it's never wasted effort
Jun 21 19:48:57 <Jaffa> No, you seem to be having fun :)
Jun 21 19:48:58 <newmaemouser>  Thanks, General
Jun 21 19:49:15 * Jaffa wishes he had the time, and his skills in the area weren't so rusty to help more directly.
Jun 21 19:49:42 <lardman> Jaffa: There are of course issues with Jazelle; it shouldn't be rocket science to reverse engineer it, which makes me wonder if ARM's legal dept are quick to counter such things
Jun 21 19:49:57 * Jaffa is more at home *writing* Java and tweaking existing ARM assembler, than reverse engineering a CPU extension
Jun 21 19:50:27 * lcuk bends your arm
Jun 21 19:50:35 <Jaffa> lardman: the number of ARM device owners where the device a) has Jazelle, b) doesn't use it, c) is open enough to allow you to hack on it without worrying about other things first might be a fairly small pool.
Jun 21 19:50:37 <lardman> it appears to be little more than some coprocessor registers that need to be written to
Jun 21 19:51:17 <lcuk> ive always thought it was just like switching between thumb and full
Jun 21 19:51:29 <lardman> yes, just the method that was problematic
Jun 21 19:51:50 <lcuk> not at all like the dsp hoops..
Jun 21 19:52:17 <lardman> just different
Jun 21 19:52:25 <lcuk> yer
Jun 21 19:53:08 <lcuk> jaffa, regarding your updated n900 before pvr etc working.  even if that is the case, the n8x0 wont vanish overnight and it would still be good to put a tick in the right place.
Jun 21 19:53:52 <Jaffa> lcuk: oh, agreed, but lardman's interest may wane when he gets a shiny new toy with its own challenges to overcome
Jun 21 19:53:55 <lcuk> look at the work still ongoing for 770 and tearfree etc.  it helps those who cannot afford to replace a device on a whim
Jun 21 19:54:33 <lcuk> as will lots of peoples, but lardmans work (or mine eventually) may be picked up by a young bright thing who wants to get the most out of the platform
Jun 21 19:54:38 <lardman> Jaffa: yes, I'm sure it will wane somewhat, not sure how much...
Jun 21 19:54:49 <lardman> lcuk: indeed
Jun 21 19:55:14 <Jaffa> lcuk: absolutely, so as lardman says: never waster
Jun 21 19:55:21 <Jaffa> s/waster/wasted/
Jun 21 19:55:21 <infobot> Jaffa meant: lcuk: absolutely, so as lardman says: never wasted
Jun 21 19:55:24 <lcuk> there was a time when the amiga era ended that i thought i would never again be able to code and hack like i do today on this device
Jun 21 19:55:58 <lcuk> the skills are wasted on big fast nvidias but the challenges do remain
Jun 21 19:56:40 * lcuk will be dound rendering on touchscreen pocketwatches next
Jun 21 19:56:55 <bennyrobo> has anyone got celluon bt projection keyboard to work with n800/n810?
Jun 21 19:56:56 <lcuk> dound?
Jun 21 19:57:32 <GeneralAntilles> Projection keyboard? ew.
Jun 21 19:58:22 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: Have to project on a squishy surface to get tactile feedback :) ?
Jun 21 19:58:32 <bennyrobo> a laser projects a keyboard onto desk.
Jun 21 19:58:50 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, get yourself a Das Keyboard to project onto. :D
Jun 21 19:59:09 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: :)
Jun 21 19:59:53 <lardman> ssvb has gone
Jun 21 20:00:06 * GeneralAntilles plays the blues.
Jun 21 20:00:15 <bennyrobo> i guess that as nobody has sais yes... then thats a resounding - nope
Jun 21 20:00:20 <lardman> anyway, looks like the data transfer takes ~2.5s alone, so the rest of the ~18s is processing
Jun 21 20:00:36 <lardman> bennyrobo: no, sorry
Jun 21 20:00:57 <newmaemouser> Generalantilles - I have accounts (exc. IRC) added, but my contacts aren't retrieved from the server.
Jun 21 20:01:08 <bennyrobo> nee probs.  is the right place to ask this sort of question?
Jun 21 20:01:12 <GeneralAntilles> newmaemouser, I don't know.
Jun 21 20:01:24 <GeneralAntilles> Sometimes it takes a while for some people, I think.
Jun 21 20:02:06 <lardman> newmaemouser: Might be better sent to the ml
Jun 21 20:03:01 <Jaffa> lardman|afk: "gone" - as in gone gone forever, or just AFK/vacation/BBIAB-type "gone"?!
Jun 21 20:03:48 <GeneralAntilles> He's buying an iPhone.
Jun 21 20:03:58 <GeneralAntilles> and smashing his N810 to bits and putting it on YouTube.
Jun 21 20:10:19 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, nahhhh he would never sell out.  his nokia cellphone is perfect,  however he is getting an ipod touch :P
Jun 21 20:57:52 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=194155&postcount=702 ehehe
Jun 21 20:59:10 <qwerty12_N800> hah, KJ got pwned
Jun 21 21:14:38 <aquatix> :)
Jun 21 21:21:15 <lardman|afk> Jaffa: me?
Jun 21 21:21:38 <summatusmentis> I think they're talking about ssvb
Jun 21 21:21:44 <summatusmentis> but I have no idea
Jun 21 21:21:49 <lardman|afk> Jaffa: Oh ssvb, nah, I was talking to him earlier and he's not on irc anymore
Jun 21 21:22:02 <lardman|afk> Jaffa: I'm sure he'll be back tomorrow
Jun 21 21:27:09 * qwerty12_N800 misses linux (except for having to use ndiswrapper) :(. I'll probably end up buying another harddrive soon and putting linux on that.
Jun 21 21:31:24 <summatusmentis> qwerty12_N800: I told you
Jun 21 21:31:30 * summatusmentis slaps ITT
Jun 21 21:31:34 <summatusmentis> it's sucking me in!
Jun 21 21:32:33 <qwerty12_N800> summatusmentis, Alas, you did. I bow my head in shame.
Jun 21 21:32:57 <GeneralAntilles> itT is just shit these days.
Jun 21 21:33:07 <GeneralAntilles> It's not even managing to peak my interest anymore.
Jun 21 21:33:26 <summatusmentis> I don't like forums, but I just replied to an random thread about CLIs, because it was there
Jun 21 21:33:38 <summatusmentis> I felt compelled to voice my opinion on a topic I know comes up over and over again
Jun 21 21:37:17 <GeneralAntilles> Ha: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2885
Jun 21 21:39:17 <summatusmentis> someone's not bitter :)
Jun 21 21:43:01 <newmaemouser> lol
Jun 21 22:09:25 <lardman|afk> night all
Jun 21 22:16:29 <n800m> can you change the transparency for applets?
Jun 21 22:16:43 <n800m> without hacking?
Jun 21 22:17:01 <qwerty12_N800> No, the applet itself defines the value.
Jun 21 22:17:48 <n800m> cool, thanks
Jun 21 22:24:48 <GeneralAntilles> This guy couldn't possibly spam any more submissions: https://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_jobelium_38.png
Jun 21 22:27:31 * sp3000 recoils
Jun 21 22:29:16 * qwerty12_N800 wonders why people put in submissions that don't look professional
Jun 21 22:30:52 <sp3000> but hey, not all of these suck :)
Jun 21 22:31:06 <qwerty12_N800> Agreed.
Jun 21 22:31:11 <sp3000> but seriously, https://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_jobelium_12.png
Jun 21 22:31:27 <sp3000> oh well, enough bashing :)
Jun 21 22:36:16 <sp3000> some rampant æ fetishism
Jun 21 22:52:58 * GeneralAntilles wonders where johnx has been hiding.
Jun 21 22:55:03 <chibiAcyd> off the top of your heads, anyone know the max operating temp of the n8x0?
Jun 21 22:55:43 <GeneralAntilles> I've never seen that information
Jun 21 22:56:00 <lcuk> its got a thermometer thou
Jun 21 22:56:29 <kkrusty> my n800 just crashed on the pdf reader
Jun 21 22:56:59 <GeneralAntilles> kkrusty, what, you want a cookie? :P
Jun 21 22:57:32 <kkrusty> sure. why not?
Jun 21 22:57:44 <kkrusty> wondering whether this has happened to anyone else
Jun 21 22:57:53 <GeneralAntilles> I'm quite certain it has.
Jun 21 22:58:04 <chibiAcyd> its so hot outside i burned myself on my n810
Jun 21 22:58:15 <lcuk> dont leave it in the sun
Jun 21 22:58:35 <lcuk> would have thought that would apply to all electronics though
Jun 21 22:58:52 <GeneralAntilles> I'd be more worried about the damage to the battery than the damage to the OMAP.
Jun 21 22:58:59 <chibiAcyd> it was in my pocket
Jun 21 22:59:15 <kkrusty> the crash happens when Im scrolling to a new page
Jun 21 22:59:27 <lcuk> are you sure you didnt short circuit it ?
Jun 21 22:59:32 <GeneralAntilles> kkrusty, tried Evince?
Jun 21 22:59:46 <chibiAcyd> i was about to say evince lol
Jun 21 23:00:00 <lcuk> kkrusty, did you reload it and try again?  is it reproducable or just a random crash which you can just move past?
Jun 21 23:00:23 <kkrusty> I did, I seem to have had the same problem but Im not sure
Jun 21 23:00:57 <lcuk> well did it crash again or not?
Jun 21 23:01:16 <kkrusty> lcuk: Its most certainly a random crash because its happened before and I just keep on reading after a reboot
Jun 21 23:01:27 <chibiAcyd> well im gonna hop off here and let my battery cool a bit. later
Jun 21 23:01:55 <lcuk> cos that happens (too frequently) to me but its various programs and not 1 specific thing
Jun 21 23:03:10 <lcuk> i only ever rebooted by pda a couple of times in its entire life, i seem to do this at least once or twice a week
Jun 21 23:03:31 <GeneralAntilles> PDA != Pocket-sized Linux computer.
Jun 21 23:04:35 <kkrusty> well another thing about it is that it only seems to happen when I scroll to a new page. And it doesnt really crash, more like doesnt respon
Jun 21 23:04:36 <lcuk> same form factor, same programs - sure i can compile anything i want, but similar for pda - they equal for lots of tasks - sure the 8x0 goes beyond and has additional features and things to do
Jun 21 23:04:39 <kkrusty> *respond
Jun 21 23:04:58 <lcuk> thats pdf specific then?
Jun 21 23:05:08 <GeneralAntilles> Crash != Freeze
Jun 21 23:05:10 <GeneralAntilles> Which is it?
Jun 21 23:05:14 <GeneralAntilles> Does it crash or does it freeze?
Jun 21 23:05:25 <lcuk> and if freeze doesnt watchdog kick it
Jun 21 23:05:28 <lcuk> in
Jun 21 23:06:10 <kkrusty> freeze, I was desperately looking for that word
Jun 21 23:06:19 <kkrusty> bad brain!
Jun 21 23:06:25 <GeneralAntilles> Does it come out of the freeze?
Jun 21 23:06:28 <GeneralAntilles> Is the PDF complicated?
Jun 21 23:07:01 <kkrusty> GeneralAntilles: depends on what you mean complicated. It is long i.e. 200+ pages
Jun 21 23:07:13 <GeneralAntilles> Images?
Jun 21 23:07:28 <kkrusty> GeneralAntilles: Nope
Jun 21 23:07:39 <GeneralAntilles> Anyway, tried Evince?
Jun 21 23:09:18 <kkrusty> GeneralAntilles: yeah I do. I might have had the same problem with that but Im not sure. I'll give it a go and report back if anything goes wrong
Jun 21 23:09:42 <kkrusty> GeneralAntilles: normally though the default pdf viewer is convenient because thats the default viewer
Jun 21 23:09:51 <kkrusty> GeneralAntilles: so thats what I end up using most of the time
Jun 21 23:10:08 <GeneralAntilles> Traditionally, the built-in PDF viewer has been useless
Jun 21 23:10:19 <GeneralAntilles> It's a lot better in OS2008, but not quite up to snuff.
Jun 21 23:10:35 <GeneralAntilles> Me, though, I just stay far away from PDFs. :D
Jun 21 23:16:04 <bmidgley> lardman sorry I'm never around... but I did email you back :)
Jun 21 23:16:22 <kkrusty> GeneralAntilles: ascii then?
Jun 21 23:16:26 <bmidgley> or rather lardman|gone
Jun 21 23:16:37 <GAN800> html/rtf/txt/etc
Jun 21 23:39:56 <GAN800> Oh what fun a brownout will be. . . .
Jun 21 23:40:44 <summatusmentis> I guess that's one beneft to living in the middle of nowhere
Jun 21 23:40:50 <lcuk> it wouldnt be too bad, i would setup a solar panel for 810 and carry on regardless
Jun 21 23:42:20 <summatusmentis> also one benefit to setting up solar energy for one's house :)
Jun 21 23:42:30 <GAN800> APC is keeping my net up and I'll switch to the cell after that dies in about two hours. :D
Jun 21 23:43:15 <lcuk> yarghhh, you mean you actually are..
Jun 21 23:44:10 <GAN800> thunderstorm messed up the power.
Jun 21 23:44:28 <lcuk> :( not good
Jun 21 23:44:39 <lcuk> did you get good photos though?
Jun 21 23:44:44 <GAN800> One room is fine, the other (with computer and fridge) has just a trickle.
Jun 21 23:44:55 <GAN800> No decent camera
Jun 21 23:45:03 <lcuk> of electricity?
Jun 21 23:45:03 <GAN800> Not even a real storm.
Jun 21 23:45:17 <GAN800> Yeah
Jun 21 23:46:00 <GAN800> The cfl looked like they do when the ballast is blown and the incandescent lamp looks like a carbon incadescent.
Jun 21 23:46:04 <lcuk> that sounds worse than off altogether, is there any chance its an actual wiring fault triggered after a spike
Jun 21 23:46:28 <GAN800> My neighbor's are at half-power, too.
Jun 21 23:46:41 <GAN800> So it's not at my panel, anyway.
Jun 21 23:47:33 <lcuk> :S
Jun 21 23:58:43 <chibiAcyd> its a nice cool 113F out right now
Jun 22 00:03:24 <GAN800> Where the hell are you?
Jun 22 00:03:44 <GAN800> Hell?
Jun 22 00:33:12 <sjgadsby> I parsed that as "New Mae Mouser" at first.
Jun 22 00:33:24 <summatusmentis> me too
Jun 22 00:46:39 <newmaemouser> You're not the first today :)
Jun 22 00:47:21 <summatusmentis> I actually asked what a mae mouser was before I realized
Jun 22 00:47:22 <newmaemouser> I should probably get a proper name soon
Jun 22 00:48:22 <lcuk> be quick, they tend to stick
Jun 22 00:48:30 * lcuk is still in his temp name
Jun 22 00:48:49 <summatusmentis> I was wondering what your nick was about lcuk
Jun 22 00:49:10 <lcuk> well its not a typo on luck, the uk is where i am from :)
Jun 22 00:49:33 <summatusmentis> oh, that makes sense
Jun 22 01:13:42 <nelson> ds3: guess what?
Jun 22 01:14:13 <nelson> ds3: a four-cell battery pack with *alkaline* D cells powers the NIT just fine.
Jun 22 01:14:15 <rm_you> GAN800: morning
Jun 22 01:15:00 <GAN800> evening
Jun 22 02:16:13 <GeneralAntilles> sjgadsby, https://wiki.maemo.org/User:Generalantilles/Sandbox/Bug_Jar
Jun 22 02:16:22 <GeneralAntilles> I was overcome by laziness, you get the idea anyway.
Jun 22 02:16:30 <GeneralAntilles> I can set up templates to make most of that pretty easy.
Jun 22 02:18:39 <sjgadsby> Thanks! I'll poke at it, see if I can move it into my own sandbox, and play.
Jun 22 02:19:00 <GeneralAntilles> Just play with it there.
Jun 22 02:19:25 <Dekaritae> Bought a Skeletool
Jun 22 02:20:10 <sjgadsby> Okay, will do.
Jun 22 02:32:30 <GeneralAntilles> sjgadsby, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Category#Sort_order
Jun 22 02:32:38 <GeneralAntilles> We can probably turn the index page into a category
Jun 22 02:32:45 <GeneralAntilles> and sort by year/month or something.
Jun 22 02:43:52 <sjgadsby> GA: Sounds good.
Jun 22 02:44:21 <GeneralAntilles> Just get something that you think will work and I'll turn it into templates. :D
Jun 22 02:47:52 <sjgadsby> Okay. I won't be able to work on it tonight, but I will work on it. Thanks!
Jun 22 02:57:21 <rm_you> Dekaritae: ??
Jun 22 02:57:50 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you, new Leatherman multitool.
Jun 22 02:58:07 <rm_you> ah
Jun 22 02:58:09 * GeneralAntilles hugs his Charge Ti.
Jun 22 02:58:17 <rm_you> ?
Jun 22 02:58:50 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.leatherman.com/products/tools/charge-TTi/default.asp
Jun 22 02:58:56 <GeneralAntilles> Only the best Leatherman ever made.
Jun 22 02:59:28 <rm_you> oh yeah, well, I just bought this: http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog.jsp?CATID=cat3217&PRODID=prd31268
Jun 22 02:59:42 <rm_you> 3 yards :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 22 02:59:57 2008