**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 27 02:59:56 2008 Jun 27 03:01:39 OK, since nobody wanted to provide any input for the topic and agenda, I went ahead and put together one myself. ;) Jun 27 03:01:39 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-meeting/2#Topic Jun 27 04:16:37 hi, has anyone used the diablo extras-devel to extras promotion interface? Jun 27 04:16:46 successfully? Jun 27 04:17:41 I'm not sure whether it's online yet. Jun 27 04:17:58 It was mentioned on -developers Jun 27 04:18:48 X-Fade'll probably be in in a few hours, and he can tell you. Jun 27 04:20:05 thanks. I'll be asleep by then, so I'll just wait in the -developers reply Jun 27 04:33:06 is it documented that the FM tuner in the N800 gets better reception when you set the n800 on top of its power cord? (at least it helps for the weak station I'm trying to listen to) Jun 27 04:33:57 WormFood: it's definitely possible, with the power cord acting as an antenna Jun 27 04:34:48 doc|home, I think it acts like a ground, or ground plane Jun 27 04:34:57 the earphone is the antenna part Jun 27 04:35:41 if I can touch the N800 and have it get better reception, then setting it on the power cord gives me the same results Jun 27 04:37:06 well...almost the same results Jun 27 04:56:06 So, anyone know how I can promote my package to extras? i dont seem to be authorized for the promotion interface... Jun 27 04:57:16 I don't think it's enabled yet, actually. Jun 27 04:57:18 Not sure Jun 27 05:07:18 bon dia / good morning Jun 27 05:08:58 good afternoon Jun 27 05:16:04 rm_you: X-Fade is the man Jun 27 05:16:16 rm_you: But can't you simply dput it to extras? Jun 27 05:19:12 RST38h, things have to go through autobuilder for Diablo Extras Jun 27 05:19:18 then they end up in Extras-devel Jun 27 05:19:21 and have to be promoted from there. Jun 27 05:19:46 Oh holy shit... Jun 27 05:20:44 * RST38h knew extras submission process would get screwed up sooner or later... Jun 27 05:23:28 :\ Jun 27 05:24:00 You should probably read up a bit before you just dismiss it off-the-cuff. . . . http://wiki.maemo.org/Diablo_extras_repository_proposal http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras_repository_process_definition Jun 27 05:25:17 General: It is irrelevant, as most of my packages will nt be able to get there anyway now Jun 27 05:25:52 Why not? Jun 27 05:26:00 They are closed source. Jun 27 05:26:57 orly? Jun 27 05:27:09 rly. Jun 27 05:27:33 http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Diablo_extras_repository_proposal Jun 27 05:28:44 General: "There's nothing stopping closed source authors such as INDT producing a "source" package containing the binary files and a script to produce the binary deb"? Jun 27 05:29:02 The binary submission procedure is being defined. Jun 27 05:29:05 Talk to X-Fade about it. . . . Jun 27 05:29:17 You mean, now I have to have my source code tree, .deb package, and a special "binary source package" for uploading to autobuilder? Jun 27 05:29:31 It's being defined. Jun 27 05:29:40 That was simply a suggested possible solution Jun 27 05:29:45 Talk to X-Fade about it. Jun 27 05:29:55 And a second deb build directory that builds it from the "binary source" rather than normal source? Jun 27 05:30:40 And what about achieving that valiant proper dependencies goal with such packages? How are they better than just submitting a .deb? Jun 27 05:31:43 General: I dunno, this all sounds exactly like I predicted a few weeks ago - once you complicate the submission process, very few people will submit Jun 27 05:34:15 You have to balance QA against easy of submission. Jun 27 05:34:24 s/easy/ease/ Jun 27 05:34:24 GeneralAntilles meant: You have to balance QA against ease of submission. Jun 27 05:34:47 Current QA was ok, as far as I know Jun 27 05:34:59 The only two packages I had problems with were Canola and OpenSSH Jun 27 05:35:00 Not looking at some of the packages that were in Extras Jun 27 05:35:47 Somehow I believe that using new submission process will *not* improve installation of these two packages (for good reasons though) Jun 27 05:36:04 The rest of extras packages I have never had a problem with Jun 27 05:37:49 Anyway, the whole process is still under definition Jun 27 05:37:54 so if you have issues, voice them. Jun 27 05:38:02 The wiki being a good place for that. Jun 27 05:38:43 It is pointless to voice my issue Jun 27 05:39:05 Defeatism WILL get you nowhere. ;) Jun 27 05:39:10 'cause my basic issue here is "if it is not broken, why fix it?" Jun 27 05:39:48 General: It's not a defeatism, just experience telling me that this cause is lost Jun 27 05:40:31 General: It may be worth revisiting in 2-3 months when we suddenly find that developers are not particularly eager to submit stuff to the new repo Jun 27 05:41:02 When that happen, I will talk to X-Fade here and explain my view of the problem Jun 27 05:43:38 is it possible to record the audio from the fm tuner? Jun 27 05:49:23 morning Jun 27 05:49:27 hello Jun 27 05:50:36 speaking about builder... I am surprised that it lack deps building Jun 27 05:51:24 It's on the todo list, evidently. Jun 27 05:55:53 what do you guys think about diablo Jun 27 05:55:55 ? Jun 27 06:00:56 WormFood: it works Jun 27 06:01:08 I thought diablo, and diablo 2 sucked...boring games...unless you like playing maze games. Jun 27 06:01:38 any real features in diablo, to make it worth the hassle to download and install? Jun 27 06:03:23 WormFood: hard to tell - I had diablo prerelease on n810 so upgraded Jun 27 06:03:55 I'll install it and check it out. I'm not doing anything real serious with my n800 Jun 27 06:06:02 and I used that as a start of real cleanup Jun 27 06:06:24 not restored backups but installed selected soft, configured it etc Jun 27 06:06:39 but I have backup of whole rootfs from last install ;) Jun 27 06:07:04 same here ;) Jun 27 06:08:11 WormFood: abook is still broken in many places Jun 27 06:08:27 what is abook? Jun 27 06:08:49 maemo contacts application Jun 27 06:10:27 Ooh, I like the look of some new repos I'm seeing Jun 27 06:10:56 qwerty12: do they have scantily-clad packages or something? ;-) Jun 27 06:11:09 Heh, if only ;P Jun 27 06:29:10 moo, qwerty Jun 27 06:29:35 baa Jun 27 06:34:09 Anyone successfully running mDNS on maemo? Jun 27 06:34:24 I'd like my laptop and tablet to both be addressable as blah.local on each other Jun 27 06:34:34 Well, mainly I'd like to be able to reach the tablet for ssh / etc Jun 27 06:34:59 you can use numeric ip Jun 27 06:35:13 Avahi comes bundled with Diablo, doesn't it? Jun 27 06:35:26 or make your router do the dns, if you have one Jun 27 06:35:28 chmac: AFAIK that's a bug in the N800 dhcp/name handling Jun 27 06:35:31 ga: no Jun 27 06:35:41 it doesn't send the name with the DHCP req Jun 27 06:35:49 lbt: I'm on an N810 if that makes any difference Jun 27 06:35:52 avahi appears to be installed as part of rtcom Jun 27 06:35:53 no Jun 27 06:36:30 is it possible to record the audio from the fm tuner? Jun 27 06:36:49 RST38h: Yeah, can use the ip, just have to look it up every time, which isn't quite as convenient Jun 27 06:36:54 It's one of those "nice to have" things :) Jun 27 06:37:18 which should be easy to fix from an OSS PoV!!! Jun 27 06:37:53 but I don't *think* the src is available (happy to be wrong) Jun 27 06:41:56 hmm - I think I am wrong.... Jun 27 06:42:17 Aha, I needed to install avahi, I didn't think it would be available in the repos Jun 27 06:42:26 I read it was installed with canola, but now I'm installing avahi-daemon Jun 27 06:42:37 Bingo, it shows up :) Jun 27 06:42:46 hehe Jun 27 06:45:13 bingo is on the package list now? Jun 27 06:45:41 lol Jun 27 06:46:08 Is it a bad idea to change the hostname of the n810? I was hoping to call it tab1 instead of Nokia-N810-51-3... Jun 27 06:47:16 sounds like a good idea to me, but then I don't know what other apps/functions may be tied to the host name, that it may fuck with....I'd expect you to be ok tho Jun 27 06:47:18 Better plan is to upgrade to Diablo. Jun 27 06:47:29 why diablo? Jun 27 06:47:39 chmac, Shouldn't be. In the diablo betas, they made sure by default, there was no hostname >.< Jun 27 06:49:04 udhcpc is running and it has the --hostname (-H) option Jun 27 06:49:11 but it ignores /etc/hostname Jun 27 06:49:22 I don't know where it's started from Jun 27 06:49:34 not in rc?.d afaics Jun 27 06:49:50 probably the osso connection mgr Jun 27 06:51:45 did they fix the dhcp client in diablo? Jun 27 06:52:04 or is it the same old busted shit? Jun 27 06:53:27 WormFood: it's not working - but udhcpc is being called with a hostname Jun 27 06:53:46 not sure if it's a bug in the udhcpc being shipped? Jun 27 07:01:08 * WormFood is flashing diablo now Jun 27 07:02:33 I don't think this worked in 2008 - but my dhcpd is now telling my local dyndns that my N800 is called Nokia-N800-23-14 Jun 27 07:02:37 Ahh, some routing issues there, back! :) Jun 27 07:02:40 despite the hostname being nut Jun 27 07:04:29 I didn't realise there was a newer version than 51-3, I'll install that now Jun 27 07:04:34 Darn, have to go through most of my setup again :( Jun 27 07:04:40 Might try the backup util out, see how it goes Jun 27 07:22:59 melmoth: Ping? Jun 27 07:38:19 morning Jun 27 07:39:48 Howdy Jun 27 07:40:57 morning Jun 27 07:41:04 morning Jun 27 07:42:10 GeneralAntilles: I don't want to get all gushing or anything, but I just wanted to tell you how amazing you've been with the new wiki over the past few weeks. Jun 27 07:42:15 Thanks :) Jun 27 07:42:47 Morning, all Jun 27 07:42:55 dneary: that's pretty gushing ;-) Jun 27 07:42:57 johnx: made a garage project I see :P Jun 27 07:43:21 My pleasure. :) Jun 27 07:43:37 rm_you, Jaffa: You should now be able to use the promotion interface btw.. Jun 27 07:43:38 Jaffa: I really like your logo entries, by the way Jun 27 07:43:56 * Jaffa hasn't made any logo entries, AFAHK. I'm no artist, I just like what I see :) Jun 27 07:44:04 X-Fade: cool Jun 27 07:44:06 Ah - that's Jussi Jun 27 07:44:09 X-Fade: k Jun 27 07:44:11 Mixing up the Js Jun 27 07:44:15 :) Jun 27 07:44:15 Yeah, I like his entries too. Jun 27 07:44:27 dneary: I agreed with your post about the current favourite logos, btw Jun 27 07:45:01 X-Fade: err... the wrong packages are showing up in the promotion interface Jun 27 07:45:08 Anybody have more input here? https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-meeting/2 Jun 27 07:45:15 qgil made a good point on the talk page Jun 27 07:45:26 Most of this stuff can be handled on the wiki. . . . Jun 27 07:45:37 rm_you: Are you using this one? https://garage.maemo.org/promoter/diablo Jun 27 07:45:44 ah no Jun 27 07:46:00 woo at project is the first in the list :P Jun 27 07:46:18 rm_you: The advantages of starting with an A ;) Jun 27 07:46:40 We should rename to aaaaadv-backlight just in case. :P Jun 27 07:46:45 rm_you: Btw. It will take some time for it to show up in extras. Jun 27 07:46:47 X-Fade: can you approve my new project :P Jun 27 07:47:04 lol GA Jun 27 07:47:22 rm_you: Sure, done.. Jun 27 07:47:27 :) Jun 27 07:47:47 Jaffa: There are a couple of others I like, but I suspect they're not very original Jun 27 07:48:10 X-Fade: Will it be possible to submit binary .deb packages to the diablo extras when their source code is not open? Jun 27 07:49:10 RST38h: see http://wiki.maemo.org/Diablo_extras_repository_proposal#No_direct_binary_uploads_to_Diablo_Extras and http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Diablo_extras_repository_proposal Jun 27 07:49:19 RST38h: my feeling is that they shouldn't be. Jun 27 07:49:21 So, the answer is "no"? Jun 27 07:49:34 RST38h: Well, you can easily get around that. Jun 27 07:49:42 X-Fade: How? Jun 27 07:49:54 RST38h: Your makefile can just copy a blob and be done with it. Jun 27 07:50:16 But it should go to non-free, I guess. Jun 27 07:50:22 X-Fade: What is the advantage of this hack over submitting a .deb package though? Jun 27 07:50:41 RST38h: it's a barrier to entry for binary-only packages and a statement of intent that things should be source-led. Jun 27 07:50:42 yea, non-free is fine - this is how I classify them at Garage anyway Jun 27 07:51:05 RST38h: Well, frankly we should aim for 100% opensource in the community repository. Jun 27 07:51:18 Jaffa: Does this mean that closed-source software is not welcome on NITs? Jun 27 07:51:34 At least that is our main priority. Closed source is a lower priority item.. Jun 27 07:51:38 X-Fade: did i do something stupid? Jun 27 07:51:40 svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svn/pyshop' Jun 27 07:51:40 svn: PROPFIND of '/svn/pyshop': 403 Forbidden (https://svn.garage.maemo.org) Jun 27 07:51:41 but isn't that a little bit hypocritical? Jun 27 07:51:49 X-Fade: why 100% OS? Jun 27 07:51:55 maemo.org != Nokia, lcuk_zzz. Jun 27 07:52:23 lbt: Not 100%, but if we need to prioritize our time. I go for the oss part first ;) Jun 27 07:52:26 I suppose if extras is QA'ed then it makes sense Jun 27 07:52:45 and there's nothing stopping people providing binary only elsewhere... Jun 27 07:52:48 X-Fade: Basically, I am trying to figure out whether it is worth trying to jump through the new set of loops in order to have my stuff in Maemo Extras repo Jun 27 07:52:50 OK - yes, makes sense Jun 27 07:53:18 X-Fade: Or whether I should provide packages via my own web page only or set up an alternative repository Jun 27 07:53:36 RST38h: I'm trying to get everything working first. I'm sorry if closed source packages don't have my priority atm, but there is only so many hours in a day.. Jun 27 07:53:45 And the benefits aren't that clear.. Jun 27 07:54:00 X-Fade: it says I haven't created an SVN repository yet... how do i do that? no options under SCM admin Jun 27 07:54:03 RST38h: yep; closed source apps aren't community apps are they? Jun 27 07:54:07 X-Fade: Well, you can just keep the original way of package submission with dput Jun 27 07:54:18 rm_you: It takes a while for the cron job to run.. Jun 27 07:54:26 X-Fade: ah so i just wait Jun 27 07:54:28 lbt: I have no idea what a "community app" is, so can't tell Jun 27 07:54:33 ahhh :) so source is ideal situation and what would be prefered, cross binary later when it becomes an issue Jun 27 07:54:45 one that belongs to the community and not just you... Jun 27 07:54:50 lcuk: source VERY preferred :P Jun 27 07:54:53 RST38h: Maybe we will add that for non-free later. Jun 27 07:54:55 * rm_you pokes lcuk Jun 27 07:55:23 RST38h: Please propose that on a wiki page. That way we can more easily talk about it? Jun 27 07:55:25 X-Fade: does keeping the original policy intact require any additional time though? Jun 27 07:55:44 RST38h: Yes, because the flow of packages is entirely different now. Jun 27 07:56:02 X-Fade: I somehow doubt proposing it at the wiki page will help , but if this is what you want, I will Jun 27 07:56:46 it helps because people are looking there more than they are looking at a quick convo in scrollback :) Jun 27 07:56:47 RST38h: It is just that we work around the clock to get the repository up for free packages. And how many non-free packages do we have in chinook? Jun 27 07:56:54 X-Fade: just out of curiosity, how long is the time on the SVN cron script? we talking like, 10 minutes? or 12 hours? Jun 27 07:57:14 rm_you: I think at least once per hour. Jun 27 07:57:20 k Jun 27 07:57:26 * rm_you waits Jun 27 07:57:49 * GeneralAntilles prods rm_you over and over with a stick. Jun 27 07:58:34 lol what now GA? :P Jun 27 07:58:44 I don't want you getting distracted. Jun 27 07:58:47 lol Jun 27 07:59:04 distracted FROM my shopping app, or distracted BY my shopping app? :P Jun 27 07:59:29 you're just jealous cause you aren't on the team yet :P Jun 27 07:59:30 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/pyshop/ Jun 27 07:59:41 PyShop... == Pie Shop :P Jun 27 07:59:44 * GeneralAntilles should probably dive into Python. Jun 27 08:00:37 Ok, good news. I'll be starting to feed packages to the extras repository that survived the rebuild effort :) Jun 27 08:01:59 X-Fade: cool Jun 27 08:02:19 Woo Jun 27 08:02:51 * GeneralAntilles gives X-Fade the BAMF of the Month award. Jun 27 08:03:15 I hope Nokia coordinates with maemo.org a little better for the Fremantle transition. Jun 27 08:03:35 Be nice to get this stuff out of the way BEFORE shipping. Jun 27 08:03:38 GeneralAntilles, I should probably too, but I think there's nothing as stupid as jumping on a bandwagon just because it's cool, especially when it comes to programming languages Jun 27 08:03:45 First impressions are particularly important for consumers. :\ Jun 27 08:03:52 GeneralAntilles: There should be beta's for fremantle. Jun 27 08:04:25 Hello everybody :) Jun 27 08:05:05 if there's any reason I should learn python, it would be for my CV, but I'll keep Java/C/C++/PHP in my usual toolkit, thank you very much Jun 27 08:08:18 X-Fade: I have made a comment on the wiki page Jun 27 08:08:47 RST38h: thanks, that's a good comment Jun 27 08:09:14 X-Fade: the problem there is not with free/non-free but with the fact that not all developers may want to go through all the loops or make their source code available Jun 27 08:09:50 RST38h: You have to ask if the community would care about packages where the developer doesn't care.. Jun 27 08:10:03 * GeneralAntilles waits to see how long it'll take for the spam to start again. Jun 27 08:10:26 X-Fade: I am pretty sure a lot of people care about stuff like VGBA Jun 27 08:10:29 RST38h, login and sign with "—~~~~" Jun 27 08:10:58 isn't the convention double dash ? Jun 27 08:11:15 No, that's just for people who don't know where to find an em-dash. Jun 27 08:11:30 That's an em-dash, by the way, if you're using fixed-width. ;) Jun 27 08:12:01 X-Fade: And so do I. But I do not care about hacking my packaging process just to work around autouilder, submitting the hacked blob, waiting for the autobuilder to finish, then finding some promotion interface, figuring out how to make it work (remember ssh keys problem?), waiting for promotion to work out Jun 27 08:12:57 RST38h: so we fix the tooling. Jun 27 08:13:08 so far it isn't bad Jun 27 08:13:13 for me, it's actually possibly easier Jun 27 08:13:14 RST38h: If a developer doesn't see the need for a central repository to reach a lot more end users, so be it? Jun 27 08:13:23 ^^ RST38h Jun 27 08:13:27 Only actual non-free apps should be in non-free, OSS where the packager can't be arsed (for whatever reason) shouldn't be. Jun 27 08:13:34 X-Fade: Actually, if you read my comment you will see that I see the need for a central repository Jun 27 08:13:46 X-Fade: But I do not see the need for entry barriers Jun 27 08:14:13 RST38h: isn't vgba open source? Jun 27 08:14:19 Jaffa: No Jun 27 08:14:55 its free :) Jun 27 08:15:21 I am making free binaries available for Maemo users (not much use selling it anyway) Jun 27 08:21:53 GeneralAntilles, heh, I never noticed Wikis replaced the double dash with a typographic dash Jun 27 08:22:50 alt+0169 ) Jun 27 08:22:59 aw Jun 27 08:23:00 no Jun 27 08:23:04 its copyright ) Jun 27 08:23:14 alt+0151 :) Jun 27 08:23:57 Windows. . . . Jun 27 08:23:59 wazd, that only works for Windows Jun 27 08:24:01 :P Jun 27 08:24:13 Well, sorry then :) Jun 27 08:24:41 crashanddie, iirc you can use shift-ctrl-unicode in gtk widgets Jun 27 08:24:53 (in hex) Jun 27 08:25:04 Damn. Bought a USB battery and my device always replies with "Not charging" when I connect it. Jun 27 08:25:11 Us under a real OS we could always use shift+alt gr+r for the registered logl, and shift+alt gr+c for the copyright logo Jun 27 08:25:17 oh, sorry, utf-8, not unicode as in unicode-16 Jun 27 08:25:40 Blafasel: I don't believe the N8x0 devices are set up to charge via usb :/ Jun 27 08:25:42 opt-r for registered and opt-g for copyright Jun 27 08:25:58 opt ? Jun 27 08:25:59 rm_you: No, I do have one of those USB to Nokia connector Jun 27 08:26:01 option Jun 27 08:26:12 there's an option on my keyboard ? Jun 27 08:26:15 FULLY LEATHERED ! Jun 27 08:26:42 I don't know how you guys get by in Linux and Windows with the weird character escapes. Jun 27 08:26:48 There's no option if you stick to Gnome, but every F key is an option if you use KDE ;) Jun 27 08:27:24 good old compose key... Jun 27 08:27:32 in gnome i just open character map and use that :P Jun 27 08:27:33 I know a lot of people love KDE, and I don't want to enter a religion-war here, but I just never understood what the KDE appeal was Jun 27 08:28:20 btw, who friggin cares, if I really need unicode, I'll fracking sketch it up and email Jun 27 08:28:29 Related to my power problem: Anyone using an external battery pack and a USB adapter? What could possibly .. go wrong? Jun 27 08:29:22 Not one for typography, then, crashanddie? :D Jun 27 08:29:23 so, if I got it right, you have a battery pack with USB out, and then an adapter from USB to Nokia power, right ? Jun 27 08:29:49 could be too low voltage Jun 27 08:29:49 GeneralAntilles, bleh, I've been in a fight about unicode for the past 5 years with the co-moderators Jun 27 08:30:02 rm_you, yeah, that would be my first impression Jun 27 08:30:20 That's what the message means. Jun 27 08:30:24 i have a usb battery thing that will charge my GPS but not my cellphone Jun 27 08:31:23 RST38h: right, so it is a non-free upload problem; which Canola will also share Jun 27 08:31:44 rm_you: Damn =( Jun 27 08:32:14 diablo extra? Jun 27 08:32:21 where is it? Jun 27 08:32:22 Jaffa: + you will get developers unwilling to go throughthe autobuild process, even if they have no problem opening source code Jun 27 08:32:36 skibur, included by default with Diablo. Jun 27 08:33:12 RST38h: Or you just take a deep breath and wait a week to see what happens when the dust settles. Jun 27 08:33:24 X-Fade: Yea, this was my original plan Jun 27 08:33:42 Is it possible to make some kind of desktop applet to click it and NIT's memorycards will wirelessly be mounted as network harddrives?) Jun 27 08:33:49 X-Fade: Wait for a month or two, see nice empty diablo Extras, then talk to you =) Jun 27 08:33:51 well, I'm off to run a few miles, and probably play some ball, cheers Jun 27 08:34:06 lcuk, I made some progress dreaming tonight, ttyl Jun 27 08:34:12 what is the link to the repo? Jun 27 08:34:26 wazd, yeah, probably Jun 27 08:34:56 That would be extremely handy Jun 27 08:34:57 But the sight of perfectly well working Chinook Extras being wrapped into red tape is kinda harsh to observe quietly Jun 27 08:34:59 RST38h: there should be no barrier to entry for OSS developers: uploading source packages is /easier/ than not, and you're guaranteed no depenendcy issues for your users. Jun 27 08:35:01 yay SVN is up finally Jun 27 08:35:19 Jaffa: As I said, you can't expect every developer to be OSS Jun 27 08:35:19 wazd, I might just integrate that into my remote control program Jun 27 08:35:32 that would be awesome :) Jun 27 08:35:33 RST38h: again, I just did it for the first time, and I found it easier than dput Jun 27 08:35:43 Jaffa: And the most important thing is not the source code but package availability to the users Jun 27 08:35:57 wazd, if you want an easy solution, write a small daemon that will sit and wait for incoming connections, once connected, launch the mount command, done Jun 27 08:36:00 RST38h: Yes, and I've said we should find a way of enabling non-free binary uploads. But free packages should always be uploaded as source. Jun 27 08:36:15 wazd, not very profound, security wise, but it'll do the trick atm Jun 27 08:36:48 wazd, you could probably also do that just using netcat, and a very small shell script (2, maybe 3 lines ?) Jun 27 08:36:51 RST38h: And don't forget that you can always point people to the chinook repo. Jun 27 08:36:52 RST38h: no, the most important thing is package availability to users now *and in the future*. Binary only packages are getting bitrotted, and source will mean that chinook -> diablo -> fremantle extras can be migrated most of the time automatically Jun 27 08:36:58 anyway, see you later Jun 27 08:37:38 X-Fade: What happens to app manager when it sees both Chinook and Diablo Extras though? Jun 27 08:37:43 I'm not very familliar with scripts'n'stuff :( Jun 27 08:37:50 RST38h, nothing exciting. Jun 27 08:38:09 I had Bora and Chinook for several months without any issues. Jun 27 08:38:09 Jaffa: Very cool. Probably won't work. Jun 27 08:38:15 RST38h: The fun starts when there are different versions. The same doesn't matter. Jun 27 08:38:38 I wonder if this simple "smart cable" might be the problem. Any "known to work" USB to Nokia charging adapters out there? Jun 27 08:39:03 X-Fade: Well, there guarantted to be different versions Jun 27 08:39:10 wazd, I'll see if I can hack something together for ya, remind me to it every couple weeks :P Jun 27 08:39:14 cheers ! Jun 27 08:39:17 https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Talk:Programming_FM_radio/index.php&rcid=3047 Jun 27 08:39:19 Fun Jun 27 08:39:21 RST38h: Well the newest version will be used. Jun 27 08:39:28 X-Fade: Unless you wanna backport diablo stuff to chinook repo automatically Jun 27 08:39:29 awkay :) Jun 27 08:47:48 Aw, BTW, does anybody knows how to make a theme for "advanced backlight applet"?) Jun 27 08:48:04 wazd: rm_you is your guy Jun 27 08:48:37 so there is now official diablo repo just a work around for the time being Jun 27 08:48:53 There is an official Diablo repo Jun 27 08:48:55 Diablo Extras Jun 27 08:49:30 wazd, http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/adv-backlight-icons.zip Jun 27 08:49:33 That's the iconset Jun 27 08:49:39 Just follow that naming scheme. Jun 27 08:49:56 rm_you can give you details on packaging. Jun 27 08:50:29 Thanks General!) Jun 27 08:50:34 all I see is maemo extra on the application manager Jun 27 08:51:03 skibur, and? Jun 27 08:51:08 That's Diablo Extras if you're in Diablo. . . . Jun 27 08:51:36 o i c Jun 27 08:51:39 duh Jun 27 08:53:18 wazd: yeah, all you have to do is name the icons like that, and put them in a folder in the right place Jun 27 08:53:26 https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/maemo_extras_diablo_rebuild.php Jun 27 08:53:30 nice Jun 27 08:53:32 morning all Jun 27 08:54:00 Hey, lardman. Jun 27 08:54:14 hi GeneralAntilles Jun 27 08:54:18 wazd: that place being their own folder (the name of the folder will be the display name of the iconset) in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/40x40/apps/adv-backlight/ Jun 27 08:54:59 wazd: once you make them, tar them up and send em to me and i'll include them in my future iconset release Jun 27 08:56:15 omweather 0.20.4 was breaking the desktop right? Jun 27 08:56:56 yes Jun 27 08:57:05 on settings call Jun 27 08:57:17 Ok, then I won't import it in diablo extras yet.. Jun 27 09:05:43 X-Fade: wazd said that 0.21 in next week Jun 27 09:08:16 hrw: Ok, thanks.. Jun 27 09:12:24 X-Fade: does diablo extras has version bumped compared to chinook extras? Jun 27 09:12:28 yaya, that's right :) Jun 27 09:13:13 wazd: what kind of icon theme you makin? Jun 27 09:13:18 hrw: These are the rebuilds from source packages. So they are the same versions as chinook. Jun 27 09:15:15 and have different deps Jun 27 09:18:10 Rm_you: well, I thought to make some more stylization for maemo original icons :) Jun 27 09:18:42 without black dividing line Jun 27 09:19:35 rm_you, are you an author?) Jun 27 09:19:41 ? Jun 27 09:19:47 of the applet?) Jun 27 09:19:49 ah Jun 27 09:19:53 yeah i wrote it Jun 27 09:20:00 Genius :) Jun 27 09:20:06 :P thanks Jun 27 09:20:17 GeneralAntilles was also an excellent assistant :P Jun 27 09:20:23 (he made the default iconset) Jun 27 09:20:25 and the idea man. :P Jun 27 09:20:29 :P Jun 27 09:20:30 :D Jun 27 09:20:46 BTW, I want to suggest to add gradations to the volume Jun 27 09:21:04 Actual volume have 6 or 7 levels Jun 27 09:21:13 100, actually. Jun 27 09:21:20 lol Jun 27 09:21:21 Noway!) Jun 27 09:22:15 rm_you: have you implemented the volume scale logarithmically, so that 100 *sounds* twice as loud as 50. Jun 27 09:22:25 rofl Jun 27 09:22:46 if you'll play an audio and increase the volume - you'll hear the strong levelups of volume :) Jun 27 09:22:56 I have done no implementation of volume, the system handles that ENTIRELY just by adding the HildonVolumeBar widget :P Jun 27 09:24:11 but it earlier versions d-pad keys set the volume up and down not by 1 level but by 1 real gradation :) It was pretty handy :) Jun 27 09:24:50 You can configure the dpad change rate. Jun 27 09:25:05 * GeneralAntilles fails at english Jun 27 09:25:10 Change interval Jun 27 09:25:19 [E]nglish, too... Jun 27 09:25:23 ;) Jun 27 09:26:09 X-Fade: next question Jun 27 09:26:12 svn: Commit failed (details follow): Jun 27 09:26:12 svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svn/pyshop/itemClass.py' Jun 27 09:26:12 svn: PROPFIND of '/svn/pyshop/itemClass.py': 302 Found (https://svn.garage.maemo.org) Jun 27 09:26:18 Am I being stupid again somehow? >_> Jun 27 09:26:31 wazd: yeah Jun 27 09:26:56 wazd: if you got 0.9b-2 from diablo extras, the settings page has controls for the jump level for hardware buttons Jun 27 09:27:08 You've svn added itemClass.py and then manually deleted it before the commit Jun 27 09:27:17 ... Jun 27 09:27:25 Issue svn rm on the file or if that doesn't work try svn up followed by other stuff Jun 27 09:27:30 it's definitely there Jun 27 09:27:45 umm :) Jun 27 09:29:31 ok Jun 27 09:29:34 this is what i did: Jun 27 09:29:46 rm_you: new applet looks nice! Jun 27 09:29:52 aquatix: :) Jun 27 09:29:55 svn checkout https://svn.garage.maemo.org/svn/pyshop Jun 27 09:30:01 still crashed with that change-volume-for-first-time thing though :( Jun 27 09:30:09 cd pyshop/ Jun 27 09:30:20 cp ../Shopping/*.py . Jun 27 09:30:29 svn add * Jun 27 09:30:37 svn ci -m "First checkin." Jun 27 09:30:39 and thats IT Jun 27 09:30:51 aquatix: yeah, that bug still eludes capture Jun 27 09:31:34 rm_you: Heisenbugs are a big joy... Jun 27 09:31:49 erm Jun 27 09:31:53 or however those are called Jun 27 09:32:23 ah, yes - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisenbug Jun 27 09:32:31 anyone from finland? Jun 27 09:32:42 did areena.yle.fi work before diablo? Jun 27 09:33:15 forge: http://pastebin.org/46488 Jun 27 09:33:20 X-Fade: http://pastebin.org/46488 Jun 27 09:34:13 updating icon cache takes time... Jun 27 09:34:28 yes :( Jun 27 09:35:38 cool.. updated adv-bl and got desktop restart on first tap Jun 27 09:35:59 rm_you: is advanced backlight control actually written in Python? =) Jun 27 09:36:16 RST38h: lol no Jun 27 09:36:18 C Jun 27 09:36:21 heh Jun 27 09:36:36 dusting off my Python skills by writing a shopping list application :P Jun 27 09:36:44 =) Jun 27 09:36:48 hrw, known bug. Volume change causes crash first time. Jun 27 09:36:49 also, i need to go shopping, so i need to make a list, and I can't find a pen >_> hence, dilemma Jun 27 09:37:07 hrw: if you want you can help try to track it down :P Jun 27 09:37:14 rm_you: Maemopad+ ! Jun 27 09:37:25 rm_you: propably it is deep in hildon Jun 27 09:37:27 I could use any help people can give with this, it is entirely eluding me Jun 27 09:37:35 not likely Jun 27 09:37:41 it is most likely something real stupid Jun 27 09:37:48 rm_you: are you using gconf? Jun 27 09:37:50 I also guess that Jun 27 09:37:53 RST38h: yes Jun 27 09:38:06 RST38h: but i quadruple+ checked my gconf code Jun 27 09:38:08 it all works Jun 27 09:38:13 rm_you: When you access it for the first time, there are still no values there, right? Jun 27 09:38:32 RST38h: you can change settings, etc fine, and those all use gconf Jun 27 09:38:40 and then AFTER that, you can change volume and it explodes still Jun 27 09:39:05 Maybe it has to deal with non-existing gconf values? Jun 27 09:39:08 and i have checks in place to make sure the gconf object is initialized Jun 27 09:39:22 I.e. you read a missing value and assume it will give you the default but it does not? Jun 27 09:39:27 i'm setting one, it should autocreate it if it doesnt exist Jun 27 09:39:47 and it DOES exist, as it is the volume setting gconf value Jun 27 09:39:55 if it werent there, the NORMAL volume app would fail Jun 27 09:40:50 hmmm Jun 27 09:40:56 RST38h: please, look at the code Jun 27 09:40:58 does someone has white icons for Presense applet? Jun 27 09:41:01 it is in the garage SVN Jun 27 09:41:06 rm_you: checking Jun 27 09:41:15 Could you give me a direct URL is possible? Jun 27 09:41:19 yes sec Jun 27 09:41:28 hrw: +1 - I hate the default ones Jun 27 09:42:18 hm, monochrome present icons, i think i'll like those too Jun 27 09:42:34 btw, is that rtcomm hack updated for diablo yet? Jun 27 09:42:47 * hrw wants icq in rtcomm Jun 27 09:42:51 it was in chinook Jun 27 09:42:56 yeah, same here Jun 27 09:43:06 hrw: rtcom is not in diablo, you have to install it Jun 27 09:43:16 but that was after i installed it Jun 27 09:43:35 what is rtcom hack? rtcom itself works in diablo Jun 27 09:43:39 RST38h: ok - then I want icq in presense applet (nevermind which part of system it is) Jun 27 09:43:54 RST38h: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/advanced-backlight.c?root=adv-backlight&view=markup Jun 27 09:44:00 hrw: it does work (with rtcom installed), doesn't it? Jun 27 09:44:04 RST38h: ah, i remember it as a `hack', because you had to do `advanced stuff', but rtcomm itself is enough indeed Jun 27 09:44:26 RST38h: iirc I had a problems with it Jun 27 09:44:30 aquatix: just apt-get from command line Jun 27 09:44:41 aquatix: forget advanced stuff (i.e. red pill) Jun 27 09:44:49 RST38h: kk :) Jun 27 09:45:08 hrw: Well, rtcom is screwed up, but it is IMHO. Our good General here will not agree. Jun 27 09:45:20 rtcomm is shipped with Diablo Jun 27 09:45:21 But rtcom still works Jun 27 09:45:28 X-Fade: you there Jun 27 09:45:29 The beta with the additional Telepathy plugins is not. Jun 27 09:45:29 ? Jun 27 09:45:52 The Collabora Telepathy plugins are the way to go. Jun 27 09:45:58 Less work than installing the beta. Jun 27 09:46:05 rm_you: Can I ask for a favor? Jun 27 09:46:15 RST38h: ? Jun 27 09:46:31 hmm, so diablo does not ship osso-ic anymore. this also means that osso-wlan has been superceded by libicd-network-wlan? Jun 27 09:46:47 GeneralAntilles: ah k, i'll look up those then Jun 27 09:46:50 rm_you: In the span of code which crashes, add printf("111\n"); after each line (where 111 changes) and tell me which line kills it Jun 27 09:46:57 The Collabora repo is on gronmayer Jun 27 09:47:02 GA: Could you elaborate on this one? Jun 27 09:47:12 Just need to install the accounts plugin and whichever Telepathy plugins you want. Jun 27 09:47:22 RST38h: yeah I tried something like that... see the debug output? Jun 27 09:47:23 GA: So, rtcom-beta != telepathy? Jun 27 09:47:24 Just add the Collabora repo from gronmayer Jun 27 09:47:37 rm_you: where? Jun 27 09:47:41 Added Jun 27 09:47:58 Install the accounts plugin at the top of the list, then install whichever Telepathy plugins you want. Jun 27 09:48:11 I see...and the beta thing can be removed Jun 27 09:48:13 rtcomm Jun 27 09:48:38 The telepathy plugins are actually a subset of what's installed with the beta installation, I believe. Jun 27 09:49:15 The way it looked to me, the 34kB rtcom-beta package was an umbrella thing that causes installation of other packages Jun 27 09:49:26 Right Jun 27 09:49:30 but it doesn't do anything on its own. I may be wrong though Jun 27 09:50:02 It pulls in additional stuff from the rtcomm beta repo and updates some system packages. Jun 27 09:50:47 RST38h: http://pastebin.org/45296 Jun 27 09:50:55 RST38h: there you can see on line 30 it dies Jun 27 09:51:08 and all of my debug output is above Jun 27 09:51:40 and the problem is, except for all of the *crash* stuff AFTER my program's last line of output, there is no difference there from a normal run Jun 27 09:51:54 GeneralAntilles: ``Install the accounts plugin at the top of the list''? Jun 27 09:51:57 IE, my program outputs the same stuff whether it crashes or not... the crash happens after it is done Jun 27 09:51:59 with everything Jun 27 09:52:21 rm_you: aha Jun 27 09:52:24 aquatix, 'account-plugin-haze' Jun 27 09:52:31 ah, check Jun 27 09:52:35 missed that one Jun 27 09:52:40 RST38h: ? Jun 27 09:52:47 AH Jun 27 09:52:59 rm_you: I am starting to suspect what happens Jun 27 09:53:07 i didn't notice before, i set the gconf value, and then it gets a gconf-notify and gets the same value it just set Jun 27 09:53:13 hrm Jun 27 09:53:19 is that what you saw? or something else? Jun 27 09:54:20 rm_you: I do not see word *crash* in this output Jun 27 09:54:24 well Jun 27 09:54:32 right, that was what i refer to as everything after line 30 Jun 27 09:54:43 err, after line 29 Jun 27 09:55:31 Jun 21 23:38:03 Nokia-N800-51-3 DSME: process '/usr/bin/hildon-desktop ' with pid 1640 exited with signal: 11 Jun 27 09:55:31 Jun 21 23:38:03 Nokia-N800-51-3 DSME: process '/usr/bin/hildon-desktop ' exited and restarted with pid 1726 Jun 27 09:55:32 Jun 21 23:38:03 Nokia-N800-51-3 maemo-launcher[1062]: child (pid=1641) terminated due to signal=11 Jun 27 09:55:37 This one? Jun 27 09:55:40 yes Jun 27 09:55:53 well Jun 27 09:55:53 So you are somehow messing up hildon-desktop... Jun 27 09:56:05 literally line 29+ does not show up when it works correctly Jun 27 09:56:08 so that includes: Jun 27 09:56:17 Jun 21 23:38:02 Nokia-N800-51-3 icd 1.2.31[1166]: Service 'com.nokia.osso_statusbar_cpu' no longer exists. Jun 27 09:56:17 Jun 21 23:38:02 Nokia-N800-51-3 ke_recv[1045]: sig_handler:718: hildon-desktop registered to system bus Jun 27 09:56:38 but that is just a side effect of hildon-desktop dying Jun 27 09:56:39 so yeah Jun 27 09:56:47 err, dieing, not changing the color of something :P Jun 27 09:57:14 rm_you: These messages do not come from your program Jun 27 09:57:28 right Jun 27 09:57:30 they come from dead hildon-desktop that no longer responds Jun 27 09:57:34 yes Jun 27 09:57:39 BUT Jun 27 09:57:41 which is caused by my program somehow Jun 27 09:57:51 This does not mean your program terminates successfully Jun 27 09:58:05 It just means that your program crashes AFTER the last message is printed Jun 27 09:58:23 i know Jun 27 09:58:27 Last message is "adv-backlight getting volume". Checking further... Jun 27 10:01:06 rm_you: this happens the first time you move volume knob, right? Jun 27 10:01:09 yes Jun 27 10:01:18 and then never again, even when moving the same knob Jun 27 10:01:30 i think it might be something IN gconf_notify_func Jun 27 10:01:30 GeneralAntilles: thx for hint - icq works now Jun 27 10:01:34 but after it gets the volume Jun 27 10:02:20 RST38h: note that the pastebin there shows "getting volume" twice after gconf_notified, that is because the code was getting it twice in that function, but i changed the code since that log was generated, so it actually only says that once now Jun 27 10:02:22 if that makes sense Jun 27 10:02:34 you can look at gconf_notify_func in revision... 7, i think Jun 27 10:02:37 and see what i mean Jun 27 10:02:54 rm_you: i had same SVN problem as you Jun 27 10:03:07 Stskeeps: ah! solution? Jun 27 10:03:19 rm_you: none, get garage people to stop using custom 404 pages for SVN path Jun 27 10:04:14 rm_you: I think I know Jun 27 10:04:47 ? Jun 27 10:04:49 rm_you: adv-bl icons were paint as bitmaps or vector? Jun 27 10:04:59 hrw: I believe bitmaps, ask GeneralAntilles Jun 27 10:05:09 GeneralAntilles: adv-bl icons were paint as bitmaps or vector? Jun 27 10:05:13 RST38h: ? Jun 27 10:05:13 rm_you: replace "double" with "int" wherever you use get_vlume_gconf Jun 27 10:05:14 Half and half Jun 27 10:05:23 The volume side is a direct lift from the Nokia icon, so that's a bitmap Jun 27 10:05:24 RST38h: ah? Jun 27 10:05:29 the brightness side is a vector Jun 27 10:05:29 See if it makes things work. If it does not, there is a few other ideas Jun 27 10:05:42 GeneralAntilles: can you share vectors? Jun 27 10:05:52 Hrm, will psd work? Jun 27 10:06:12 ok - I thought svg rather ;D Jun 27 10:06:18 * hrw -> off for now Jun 27 10:07:43 rm_you: You are calling update_icon() after volume has been changed, right? Jun 27 10:07:47 RST38h: yes Jun 27 10:07:53 * aquatix is online with icq etc again \o/ Jun 27 10:08:03 GeneralAntilles: thanks Jun 27 10:08:18 contact merging time... Jun 27 10:09:00 Be sure to spread the Collabora solution around, it's a lot lower impact than the full-on beta. Jun 27 10:09:09 indeed Jun 27 10:09:20 and it works just fine Jun 27 10:09:38 rm_you: move away from doubles, if it does not help, will look at update_icon() Jun 27 10:10:49 RST38h: it may have Jun 27 10:10:51 not sure... Jun 27 10:10:54 X-Fade: ack Jun 27 10:11:09 GeneralAntilles: ACK Jun 27 10:11:43 check your tablet... does advanced-backlight have an icon in the control panel's applet list? Jun 27 10:11:50 No Jun 27 10:11:53 @*(&$ Jun 27 10:12:00 mine either Jun 27 10:12:00 wtf Jun 27 10:12:25 lol, didn't we do this about 6 months ago? :P Jun 27 10:13:20 yes Jun 27 10:13:42 i think the extras assistant build process killed it somehow Jun 27 10:14:40 Oh god! It's self-aware! Jun 27 10:14:46 KILLIT!KILLIT!KILLIT! Jun 27 10:15:08 lol Jun 27 10:15:14 Emergency containment procedures! Jun 27 10:15:15 nah maybe it was my bad... checking Jun 27 10:15:21 And kill it for good Jun 27 10:15:28 with FIRE. Jun 27 10:15:36 hm, some of the telepathy IM plugins don't have an icon Jun 27 10:15:45 towo: plasma! Jun 27 10:15:52 FIREPLASMA. Jun 27 10:16:12 aquatix, consequence of not going with the beta method. Jun 27 10:16:22 GeneralAntilles: :) Jun 27 10:16:30 * aquatix doesn't quite care for those icons Jun 27 10:17:26 maybe you DO have to go with the beta method? Jun 27 10:17:38 No. . . . Jun 27 10:17:48 The IM works fine, you just don't get icons. Jun 27 10:18:05 but how do you know which service is which then? Jun 27 10:27:00 GeneralAntilles: more branding fun: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3312 Jun 27 10:28:44 Hehe Jun 27 10:28:49 RST38h: you name them? Jun 27 10:29:04 hm, can't i just add icons? Jun 27 10:29:23 ummmm Jun 27 10:29:25 X-Fade: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/advanced-backlight_0.9b-3/armel.root.log.FAILED.txt Jun 27 10:29:28 WTF? Jun 27 10:29:31 aquatix, I'm sure. Jun 27 10:29:33 that doesn't look like a problem on my end Jun 27 10:30:11 * aquatix goes looking for more info Jun 27 10:31:06 Jaffa, I can't imagine where they came up with that package name. Jun 27 10:32:25 rm_you: Can you submit the package again? Jun 27 10:32:49 X-Fade: yeah Jun 27 10:32:51 rm_you: There is a problem with the firewall of the isp. We're already working on getting that fixed. Jun 27 10:32:55 ok Jun 27 10:33:00 X-Fade: what about this one: Jun 27 10:33:14 http://pastebin.org/46488 Jun 27 10:34:02 rm_you: Did you do a svn commit? Jun 27 10:34:11 yes Jun 27 10:34:15 ... Jun 27 10:34:23 Don't see it in the paste.. Jun 27 10:34:40 line 8 Jun 27 10:35:20 Hmm yeah, sorry ;) Jun 27 10:35:33 yeah, i use shorthand <_< Jun 27 10:36:58 rm_you: Is that svn problem still present? Jun 27 10:37:01 yes Jun 27 10:41:42 RST38h: i'll be impressed if that fixed it Jun 27 10:41:58 GeneralAntilles: install this: http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/advanced-backlight_0.9b-3_armel.deb Jun 27 10:43:21 X-Fade: btw, did you determine if account creation date was in the midgard db? Jun 27 10:43:40 GeneralAntilles: wait Jun 27 10:43:54 <_< Jun 27 10:46:52 RST38h: nope, didn't fix it Jun 27 10:46:58 RST38h: more ideas? Jun 27 10:48:33 Jaffa: Yes, we have the creation date available in midgard. (Just checked) Jun 27 10:49:54 Jaffa: Did you join 2007-05-18? Jun 27 10:50:28 X-Fade: so, any clue on the SVN thing? still doing it Jun 27 10:51:51 X-Fade: err, dunno. Let me check my email Jun 27 10:52:04 X-Fade: isn't that the midgard migration date? Jun 27 10:53:33 what is the way for refleshing with the most ported configs? copy intern memory?+backup? or only backup and reconfigurate? Jun 27 10:54:11 X-Fade: garage account was 2006-07-11. Extras upload 2007-01-22. But that date'll do for the council page. Jun 27 10:57:53 Jaffa: Yeah, that was probably the date we reloaded the database. Jun 27 10:58:51 X-Fade: still failing on the builder, and SVN Jun 27 10:59:15 rm_you: I'm going to get some lunch first and then I will look into it. Jun 27 10:59:22 ok :( Jun 27 11:00:07 back Jun 27 11:00:25 rm_you: Checking icon code Jun 27 11:01:14 RST38h: the worst part is, SOMETIMES it doesn't crash on first load, if the change to the code isn't very big Jun 27 11:01:25 which means its something with a memory location getting changed Jun 27 11:01:38 or something not initializing correctly Jun 27 11:01:45 Means something is not initialized on startup Jun 27 11:01:57 rm_you: Just to be sure, get rid of ceil() Jun 27 11:02:01 where Jun 27 11:02:06 update_icon Jun 27 11:02:16 do (volume+24)/25 Jun 27 11:02:47 (int)(ceil((double)volume / 25.0)) Jun 27 11:02:50 that? Jun 27 11:03:01 yep Jun 27 11:03:08 does it do the same thing? lol Jun 27 11:03:08 also sprintf() is unsafe in that function Jun 27 11:03:15 i am HORRIBLE at math Jun 27 11:03:23 it does, I just don't want to debug Nokia's fp library Jun 27 11:03:28 did i seriously use something besides snprintf? Jun 27 11:03:48 Not necessarily, just make sure your theme name does not exceed a certian number of chars Jun 27 11:04:42 rm_you: I would sprinkle update_icon() with printf()s just to see if program really crashes inside this function Jun 27 11:05:33 X-Fade: still, that's perfect. Thanks very much Jun 27 11:06:28 rm_you: same goes for set_volume_gconf(). After you "enrich" them with printfs (lots of them including one on entry and one on exit), run the applet and see if you can make it crash Jun 27 11:06:47 rm_you: these are two most likely candidates for crashing Jun 27 11:07:10 RST38h: every function there has a printf on entry and exit Jun 27 11:07:53 oh, I see. This simplifies things. Jun 27 11:09:17 * lcuk debug by shotgun :) works everytime Jun 27 11:09:22 -/me Jun 27 11:09:27 lol Jun 27 11:09:45 rm_you: Please place extra printf at the exit from gconf_notify_func Jun 27 11:10:00 yeah i just added a lot there Jun 27 11:10:07 refresh SVN to rev 10 in a sec Jun 27 11:11:57 also show new output =) Jun 27 11:12:54 ? Jun 27 11:13:33 well, if you added printfs they should show up in the debugging output Jun 27 11:13:46 And I only have your previous debug output Jun 27 11:13:57 ? Jun 27 11:14:00 I have printfs Jun 27 11:14:06 well, it goes to syslog Jun 27 11:14:13 printf gets lost in the void Jun 27 11:14:20 well, syslog printfs :) Jun 27 11:14:29 you know what I mean Jun 27 11:14:44 why can't i install bash on diablo? Jun 27 11:14:53 do i need to remove busybox? (phew..) Jun 27 11:15:23 RST38h: there ARE a lot of those printfs there... Jun 27 11:15:26 where do you want more? Jun 27 11:15:28 macoute: bash3 Jun 27 11:15:36 rm_you: I see you have added some more? Jun 27 11:15:42 macoute: look for bash3 on gronmayer Jun 27 11:15:47 rm_you: ok Jun 27 11:15:50 RST38h: yes Jun 27 11:15:52 rm_you: Could you crash it with the new ones and show me the output? =) Jun 27 11:15:57 * RST38h is solving a puzzle Jun 27 11:16:01 RST38h: oh, you just want to see it Jun 27 11:16:07 sorry yeah Jun 27 11:16:07 of course Jun 27 11:17:12 bash is available from nitapps.com Jun 27 11:18:06 Yay. Spam. Jun 27 11:18:47 lol Jun 27 11:18:51 That's two this morning. Jun 27 11:18:56 I like the "rollback" button Jun 27 11:19:00 Persistent buggers. Jun 27 11:22:43 RST38h: http://pastebin.org/46507 Jun 27 11:23:44 so... gconf_notify terminates. Jun 27 11:23:47 wtf Jun 27 11:28:47 rm_you: aha Jun 27 11:28:55 aha? Jun 27 11:29:41 enlighten me? Jun 27 11:30:47 jaffa - is it free nokia phone spam? Jun 27 11:30:51 or spam in the wiki Jun 27 11:31:06 rm_you: crash occurs in gconf_notify or its descendants Jun 27 11:31:48 rm_you: Change if (vbar != NULL) to if (0) and see if you can still crash it Jun 27 11:32:14 wiki spam Jun 27 11:32:39 RST38h: what? I thought that proved that it DIDNT? Jun 27 11:32:54 GAN800, can't you get the actual ip of the spammer Jun 27 11:33:24 anyway, i'm almost positive that it isn't in gconf_notify, because I commended out that entire function just a while ago and it still did the crash Jun 27 11:33:26 rm_you: well, gconf_notify is a callback Jun 27 11:33:35 *commented Jun 27 11:33:35 lcuk, no, not until something is changed with the http/https setup. Jun 27 11:33:50 rm_you: hildon calls it, callback screws up, exits, and kills hildon Jun 27 11:33:51 Besides, it's probably not a single ip. Jun 27 11:34:37 GAN800, ok but its getting quite severe - is wikipedia afflicted this badly and how do they handle it if it is Jun 27 11:34:42 rm_you: so whatever is inside gconf_notify - likely to be not kosher. To test it, disable that if (vbar != NULL) statement and see if it stops app from crashing Jun 27 11:34:59 lcuk, lots and lots of eyes. Jun 27 11:35:05 RST38h: how about if I comment out the line where i attach the gconf_notify function? Jun 27 11:35:27 rm_you: Nope, you still want gconf_notify to happen Jun 27 11:35:30 lcuk, and bots that watch for external link spamming. Jun 27 11:35:31 why Jun 27 11:35:36 RST38h: it doesnt matter Jun 27 11:35:40 rm_you: To keep experiment conditions clean Jun 27 11:35:45 but Jun 27 11:36:02 rm_you: We want to prove that it is what gconf_notify DOES, not the function itself which is a problem Jun 27 11:36:05 gan :) that will be what it is then. okies Jun 27 11:36:28 rm_you: If you do not attach it, you will not know that for sure Jun 27 11:36:30 RST38h: but, if it still crashes without the function at all... then the problem can't be the function. right? Jun 27 11:36:43 is that logic correct? Jun 27 11:36:43 rm_you: Guess so Jun 27 11:36:46 yep Jun 27 11:36:50 which is the dev file for bluetooth in n810? Jun 27 11:36:51 and it does... Jun 27 11:36:57 Unless you have got two problems of course but it is unlikely :) Jun 27 11:37:08 So you do not attach gconf_notify and it still crashes? Jun 27 11:37:13 correct Jun 27 11:37:20 I tried that an hour and a half ago Jun 27 11:37:22 i can try again Jun 27 11:37:25 All righty, next hypothesis Jun 27 11:37:35 If you can try it again, would appreciate it Jun 27 11:37:37 k Jun 27 11:37:42 i will make that change as you go on Jun 27 11:38:08 rm_you, didnt you have something ismilar occur the other day where you made a change and it was still called, but after you refreshed and rechecked it did the action you meant. Jun 27 11:38:31 ahhh no, it was something lardman was running through. rm_you - double check and confirm that the func is missing Jun 27 11:38:33 lcuk: i sorta remember that... Jun 27 11:38:38 hrm Jun 27 11:38:45 yeah, will do Jun 27 11:38:48 rm_you: Next idea: look at set_volume_gconf Jun 27 11:39:20 In that function, disable update_icon(). If it still crashes, disable do_volume_beep. If it still crashes, disable gconf_client_set_int Jun 27 11:39:27 See when it stops crashing Jun 27 11:39:42 shouldn it be /dev/rfcomm0 or something? Jun 27 11:40:11 RST38h: this bug has existed before i put in the volume beep... but i will do that for you anyway Jun 27 11:40:22 i'm desperate Jun 27 11:41:13 go to the toilet then Jun 27 11:42:13 RST38h: did all that, still crashing Jun 27 11:42:16 ok Jun 27 11:43:00 RST38h: refresh revision 12 Jun 27 11:43:15 aha Jun 27 11:43:19 aha?! Jun 27 11:43:22 you keep doing that Jun 27 11:43:23 >_< Jun 27 11:43:42 i think thats what he types when he farts Jun 27 11:44:24 Will "uhum" work? =) Jun 27 11:44:30 rm, put up a log of the crash Jun 27 11:44:37 new log with latest everything Jun 27 11:44:47 rm_you: You have not commented out gconf_client_set_int Jun 27 11:45:08 err sec where Jun 27 11:45:13 must have missed that Jun 27 11:46:01 see if this makes the crash disappear though =) Jun 27 11:46:06 lol Jun 27 11:47:28 RST38h: *maybe* Jun 27 11:47:51 didn't crash ONCE, but not a verified 100% fix Jun 27 11:48:04 GAN800: install http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/advanced-backlight.so Jun 27 11:48:17 to /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/ Jun 27 11:48:28 remember to disable applet first Jun 27 11:48:41 Yeah, yeah. :P Jun 27 11:48:44 :P Jun 27 11:49:02 RST38h: so, if that IS it... Jun 27 11:49:11 there is nothing wrong with my gconf call Jun 27 11:49:16 that i see Jun 27 11:49:25 I even have safeguards there Jun 27 11:49:46 a safeguard Jun 27 11:50:03 what if localvbar is still null Jun 27 11:50:59 errr Jun 27 11:51:02 not possible? Jun 27 11:51:10 you had to click on it to call that function! Jun 27 11:51:14 i dunno, its passed as a parameter from somewhere Jun 27 11:51:25 from the callback Jun 27 11:51:38 rm_you: So, no crashes? =) Jun 27 11:51:40 http://www.adopteunmec.com/view2.php?id=1257203 Jun 27 11:51:41 i say "not possible", but Jun 27 11:51:46 oups :-) Jun 27 11:51:53 i still question whether you are correct :P Jun 27 11:52:06 GAN800: well? crash? Jun 27 11:52:06 * RST38h is not correct, but he is on to something Jun 27 11:52:40 rm_you: uncomment update_icon() and do_volume_beep() btw Jun 27 11:53:00 No fix Jun 27 11:53:11 change it to emit a debug, store result of this in an int variable (int)hildon_volumebar_get_level(localvbar) display the result, then apply it Jun 27 11:53:16 ahhh Jun 27 11:53:20 so still not right anyway Jun 27 11:53:29 crash? Jun 27 11:53:38 lol @ stone soup group, rm is being pulled in a hundred ways :D Jun 27 11:53:38 GAN800: ? Jun 27 11:53:42 does that mean it crashed? Jun 27 11:54:44 GAN800: ? Jun 27 11:55:14 good luck, ill get back to work. let me know how it goes later Jun 27 11:55:21 k Jun 27 11:55:28 Yes, it crashed. Jun 27 11:55:51 damn! Jun 27 11:56:20 GA: Could you repeat it? Jun 27 11:56:46 no Jun 27 11:56:48 not repeatable Jun 27 11:56:52 that's the whole problem Jun 27 11:57:49 then let us assume that the gconf update was the cause of this problem Jun 27 11:58:39 ok, now that's weird Jun 27 11:58:48 now i have icons for my IM networks :) Jun 27 11:59:07 not sure whether installing skype did run an icon cache refresh or something Jun 27 11:59:25 rm_you: replace (int)hildon_volumebar_get_level(localvbar) with 0 and uncomment gconf_client_set_int Jun 27 11:59:35 See if it crashes again Jun 27 12:00:28 i did some of that... it gets the volume from the volumebar correctly Jun 27 12:02:36 rm_you was there any progress with the backlight in 2008he? Jun 27 12:04:14 rm_you: but if you just write 0 to gconf without querying the volume, what happens? Jun 27 12:04:48 Atarii, it should be easy to make it work directly if you have fanoush's backlight patches and backlight tool install. Jun 27 12:05:31 RST38h: sec Jun 27 12:05:43 hm, was it possible to synchronise the maemo contacts list with a pc or something? Jun 27 12:05:54 GAN800: reeto, i forgot about those, more jobs for today Jun 27 12:06:02 it uses the evolution data server right? Jun 27 12:06:17 lcuk: wiki spam for hot teens Jun 27 12:06:24 Right, lcuk. Jun 27 12:06:42 er, s/lcuk/aquatix/ Jun 27 12:07:02 ok Jun 27 12:07:52 GAN800: try now Jun 27 12:08:01 GAN800: http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/advanced-backlight.so Jun 27 12:09:36 No crash. :D Jun 27 12:09:48 hrm Jun 27 12:09:51 ok sec Jun 27 12:09:52 No volume change though. Jun 27 12:09:54 still not positive Jun 27 12:10:40 who else has adv-backlight on n800/n810? Jun 27 12:10:43 so when you set 0 to gconf there is no crash? Jun 27 12:11:05 RST38h: no, that was this: Jun 27 12:11:18 /g_signal_connect (vbar, "level_changed", G_CALLBACK(set_volume_gconf), NULL); Jun 27 12:11:20 err Jun 27 12:11:21 / Jun 27 12:11:23 er Jun 27 12:11:24 // Jun 27 12:11:26 umgh Jun 27 12:11:30 commented it out :P Jun 27 12:11:33 lol Jun 27 12:11:40 well, now i know something Jun 27 12:11:43 *maybe* Jun 27 12:12:14 well removing this callback does the same thing as commenting out its contents Jun 27 12:12:26 yes Jun 27 12:12:29 Could you please place the callback back, but always set 0 to gconf? Jun 27 12:12:44 sec Jun 27 12:12:56 This way, we will know for sure if it is gconf's fault or the value Jun 27 12:14:25 i can't get it to crash even on other versions tho :/ Jun 27 12:14:32 hmmmmmmmm Jun 27 12:14:38 delete its gconf entry Jun 27 12:17:28 nm Jun 27 12:17:32 its crashing again Jun 27 12:17:42 and current code (rev13) *is* crashing Jun 27 12:18:30 ok Jun 27 12:19:08 So the problem *is* in that gconf_client_st_int Jun 27 12:19:20 whatever value you give to it Jun 27 12:19:29 yes Jun 27 12:20:01 well there is a dead easy way to fix it Jun 27 12:20:42 ? Jun 27 12:20:47 In your postinst script, insert a line that *adds* your initial value to gconf :) Jun 27 12:20:55 err Jun 27 12:20:57 it isn't MY value Jun 27 12:21:04 it's a system value Jun 27 12:21:06 Alternatively, you can do this on initialization Jun 27 12:21:18 Then read it on initialization - if it is not there, create it Jun 27 12:21:21 it is always there on every tablet Jun 27 12:21:27 part of osso Jun 27 12:21:32 the volume value - yes Jun 27 12:21:35 yes Jun 27 12:21:40 but not the gconf value right? Jun 27 12:21:47 no, the gconf value Jun 27 12:21:54 that's part of osso Jun 27 12:21:59 it's how the system controls the volume Jun 27 12:22:06 So when your program start, make it check for the gconf value - if it is not there, create it and set it to the current volume control Jun 27 12:22:10 all the DEFAULT applet does is change that gconf value Jun 27 12:22:20 ... Jun 27 12:22:21 Same gconf value or its own? Jun 27 12:22:25 same Jun 27 12:22:40 and my applet's volumebar loads that gconf value as its default value Jun 27 12:22:41 which works Jun 27 12:22:57 when it opens, the volume bar is set to that level Jun 27 12:24:28 so it is the system gconf value not your own right? Jun 27 12:26:05 yes Jun 27 12:26:58 all right. You have a gconf_client_add_dir in your code Jun 27 12:27:52 could you comment that call out, the uncomment gconf_client_set_int and try if the program works Jun 27 12:33:37 wtf Jun 27 12:33:42 it SETS IT CORRECTLY! Jun 27 12:33:46 *THEN* it crashes Jun 27 12:33:56 * rm_you was watching gconf on the console Jun 27 12:36:19 RST38h: commenting that out doesnt help Jun 27 12:36:23 just tried. Jun 27 12:38:56 RST38h: but it is definitely that gconf_set_int Jun 27 12:39:05 i comment that out and it stops crashing Jun 27 12:39:21 i think i can get the error from that somehow if it crashes Jun 27 12:39:26 does C have try/catch? Jun 27 12:40:00 hm, a contact that is only through that Collabora telepathy plugin, doesn't show up as such in my speed contacts applet Jun 27 12:40:58 yep, it is motherfucking set_int Jun 27 12:41:19 a'ok, two directions from here: Jun 27 12:41:38 (1) checking what people on the net say about gconf_client_set_int Jun 27 12:41:54 (2) checking what other functions can be used to set its value Jun 27 12:42:08 You've got the source code for gconf_client_set_int(). Jun 27 12:42:16 Find out what's actually causing the crash. Jun 27 12:42:33 And no, C does not have exceptions. Jun 27 12:44:25 actually, this function does not cause a crash Jun 27 12:44:36 but something else touchedwhen calling it does Jun 27 12:45:09 and no, having the source for gconf_client_set_int won't help here unless you intend to debug the whole gconf framework Jun 27 12:45:44 And why not? It's not that much code. Jun 27 12:46:10 weird, but gconf_set_int isn't failing with an error Jun 27 12:46:19 it just causes a crash Jun 27 12:46:32 but... doesn't return an error like it should Jun 27 12:46:53 http://docs.linux.cz/programming/gnome/developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/gconf/gconf-GConfClient.html#gconf-client-set-int Jun 27 12:47:21 derf: because nobody hired me to work on gnome Jun 27 12:47:43 why does it only crash ONCE Jun 27 12:47:55 and why only when i replace the binary for MY program Jun 27 12:47:58 that doesnt make ANY sense Jun 27 12:48:03 wait... Jun 27 12:48:05 * rm_you headdesks Jun 27 12:48:19 what is the type of this field, from osso's point of view? Jun 27 12:48:24 int Jun 27 12:48:28 does osso store integers or floats there? Jun 27 12:48:29 ints? Jun 27 12:48:38 fairly positive its an int, yes Jun 27 12:48:39 Ok. Try gconf_client_set_string instead Jun 27 12:48:45 ? Jun 27 12:48:49 i.e. convert your value to string then set it Jun 27 12:48:57 wha? Jun 27 12:48:59 see if it works =) Jun 27 12:49:36 wait it will not work Jun 27 12:51:44 definitely an int Jun 27 12:51:46 rm_you: Ok. The last argument to gconf_client_set_int is an optional pointer to return GError. Jun 27 12:51:48 lots of command line testing Jun 27 12:51:51 yes Jun 27 12:52:10 JUST to be sure, maybe it is worth passing a non-null there and seeing if it returns any error? Jun 27 12:52:15 i tried Jun 27 12:52:17 it doesn't Jun 27 12:52:22 unless i did it wrong Jun 27 12:52:30 Like a warning "I set, but screwed. Expect death." Jun 27 12:52:40 ok Jun 27 12:53:16 Can't replace it. Internet does not say anything bad about it. The last possible solution is to call it from a different place. Jun 27 12:54:13 i could ... Jun 27 12:54:14 ooo Jun 27 12:54:16 DIRTY Jun 27 12:55:05 ...anybody knows about efforts to ship a font that covers most of the unicode spec? Jun 27 12:55:17 i could use g_spawn_async("gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/sound/master_volume --type int %d", volume_local) Jun 27 12:55:31 rofl Jun 27 12:58:03 re Jun 27 12:58:11 urgh Jun 27 12:58:19 ok, I am out on a meeting Jun 27 13:02:32 WOW Jun 27 13:02:49 even with g_spawn_commandline_async() doing the gconf value change, it still crashes Jun 27 13:04:38 d8j92374j02q378fn401poIS0YNU`9DX6nh-&(*@&VCE$N( BZX *2]'vzamc Jun 27 13:04:54 * rm_you throws n800 at wall... almost Jun 27 13:06:17 i'm going to... Jun 27 13:06:19 take a break Jun 27 13:06:47 rm_you: can your code be seen on the net? Jun 27 13:06:52 * mgedmin wants to know what not to do :-) Jun 27 13:11:47 lol Jun 27 13:11:50 mgedmin: yeah it Jun 27 13:11:55 it is on the garage SVN Jun 27 13:17:01 X-Fade: proxy still broken? >_> Jun 27 13:17:49 * mgedmin finds https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/advanced-backlight.c?root=adv-backlight&view=markup in irc log Jun 27 13:20:34 why gconf_value_get_int(gconf_client_get(ggclient, GVOLUME, NULL)) instead of gconf_client_get_int(ggclient, GVOLUME, NULL) ? Jun 27 13:36:21 mgedmin: err, good point Jun 27 13:40:28 see anything else? >_> Jun 27 13:52:52 no :/ Jun 27 14:03:21 ~seen lardman Jun 27 14:03:21 lardman was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5h 9m 7s ago, saying: 'hi GeneralAntilles'. Jun 27 14:17:57 didn't someone build cfdisk for maemo? Jun 27 14:26:50 back Jun 27 14:27:18 rm_you: so, how are things? Jun 27 14:30:09 RST38h: i tried using g_spawn_commandline_async() to run gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/sound/master_volume --type int 50 Jun 27 14:30:12 and it still crashed Jun 27 14:30:20 i'm taking a break. Jun 27 14:37:48 rm_you: I think it may be necessarily to call set_int from a different place Jun 27 14:37:58 s/ily/ry/ Jun 27 14:37:59 RST38h meant: rm_you: I think it may be necessarry to call set_int from a different place Jun 27 14:54:11 hidi ho everyone. hope you are doing fine :) Jun 27 14:55:28 i am trying to make a video call from my device to a win XP computer. therefor i installed gizmo on both, does anyone of you know if this works? i can chat, but neither video nor audio do work :( Jun 27 14:57:30 I don't remember what version of gizmo on the tablet supports video Jun 27 14:57:37 maybe it's only a beta version that does? Jun 27 14:58:02 cyberholic: you do not need gizmo to make a call to gizmo user Jun 27 14:58:11 hrw: i do not need it? Jun 27 14:58:41 cyberholic: gizmo use SIP - you can add gizmo account as sip account in standard maemo accounts/presense Jun 27 15:00:12 hrw: well. i am trying the "internet call" option from the "communications" menu. There i have entered my goolgle account but i can not find out how to add a gizmo contact. but is this what you are talkinga about? Jun 27 15:02:02 So, am I being stupid, or are the repositories for Diablo really rather empty still? In particular, the fact that I can't seem to find OpenSSH is handicapping me right now Jun 27 15:02:19 ~diablo Jun 27 15:02:20 Fast and efficient NNTP newsfeeder software. URL: http://www.backplane.com/diablo/, or a better link-time optimizer. More information can be found at http://www.elis.ugent.be/diablo Jun 27 15:02:36 Sho_: use chinook/extras Jun 27 15:03:03 Sho_, in app manager edit maemo extras and type "chinook diablo" into the distribution field Jun 27 15:03:23 cyberholic: GIZMOLOGIN@sip.siphone.com iirc - there was some infos in rtcomm Jun 27 15:03:54 hrw: thnx. i ll try that one out Jun 27 15:04:03 hrw, johnx: Hmkay, as long as that doesn't end up screwing up the package tree on the system in some way, mixing distros .. Jun 27 15:04:32 Sho_: both are os2008 Jun 27 15:04:42 Sho_, it shouldn't. if you're worried, then be careful not to let it downgrade libraries or anything like that Jun 27 15:05:23 ah well, if anything happens it's just a reflash anyway Jun 27 15:05:24 thanks Jun 27 15:08:12 Sho_, if it makes you feel any better, I installed openssh from chinook just fine the other day Jun 27 15:08:21 * aquatix was about to say the same Jun 27 15:08:35 also, the bump from chinook to diablo was not nearly as big as from bora to chinook Jun 27 15:08:57 fair enough. it's just I'm a Gentoo guy and not a Debian expert, and unclear about the ramifications of feeding repositories for an older distro to a newer released :-) Jun 27 15:09:09 s/released/release/ Jun 27 15:09:09 Sho_ meant: fair enough. it's just I'm a Gentoo guy and not a Debian expert, and unclear about the ramifications of feeding repositories for an older distro to a newer release :-) Jun 27 15:09:30 Why on earth do we need infobot to do that? Jun 27 15:09:39 * aquatix wonders too Jun 27 15:09:42 well, in a normal debian system it would be 100% harmless Jun 27 15:09:49 sorry, if I had known I wouldn't have corrected myself ;) Jun 27 15:09:56 ~slap infobot Jun 27 15:09:57 * infobot slaps infobot, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! Jun 27 15:10:07 i like it Jun 27 15:10:09 infobot, stop hitting yourself Jun 27 15:10:10 * infobot leaps to his feet and stops hitting yourself Jun 27 15:10:19 lol Jun 27 15:10:23 RST38h: where else would I do it? that's the function that needs to do it >_> Jun 27 15:12:04 is garage.maemo.org up? Jun 27 15:12:07 nvm Jun 27 15:13:22 hrw: is there a tutorial how to setup my gizmo account as "internet call" account? Jun 27 15:13:55 hrw: i mean, do you know of one? Jun 27 15:14:17 cyberholic: rtcomm.garage.maemo.org maybe has something - do not remember now Jun 27 15:14:19 use it as sip account? Jun 27 15:14:53 i am trying to set it up at "internet call" - my google talk account works perfect, but i want to try out video calls now. Jun 27 15:15:20 X-Fade: you back yet? Jun 27 15:15:46 stupid gimp question: how to move pasted element? Jun 27 15:16:31 hrw: select the drag tool, then drag Jun 27 15:16:31 I have 40x40 icon loaded and want to paste 20x40 element on it - but it lands in a middle and is not movable Jun 27 15:16:55 (the 4way arrow thinger) Jun 27 15:17:02 hrw: move tool Jun 27 15:17:05 what sp3000 says Jun 27 15:17:48 you may want to consider converting the float into a proper layer depending on what you plan to do with it; there's a button under the layers iirc Jun 27 15:18:13 thx Jun 27 15:24:02 I'm trying to find a library that will help me getting the spectrum of sound, any ideas ? Jun 27 15:24:17 rm_you: pong. Jun 27 15:24:31 crashanddie: fftw Jun 27 15:26:21 I'm sure many have asked this, but I've installed Diablo, and I'd like to get GPE back on. I can't find it in the application manager, though. Jun 27 15:26:40 Is there a Diablo repo for GPE? Jun 27 15:26:49 derf, cheers ! Jun 27 15:27:12 cloakable: A lot of gpe components are available in extras-devel for diablo. Jun 27 15:27:32 X-Fade: How do I enable extras-devel? Jun 27 15:28:32 cloakable: Copy the settings for the Maemo extras repository and replace extras by extras-devel ;) Jun 27 15:28:47 ahh, okay :) Jun 27 15:29:13 cloakable: But it is the 'experimental' repository, so beware ;) Jun 27 15:31:24 X-Fade: Heh, that's okay. Jun 27 15:32:11 My GPE is back in the application manager! Yay Jun 27 15:32:50 hmm. Jun 27 15:33:04 cloakable: The author is still missing some libs, so not everything is there. Jun 27 15:35:12 X-Fade: And gpesummary wants kernel-diablo-flasher, and I don't have root :P Jun 27 15:39:09 cloakable: I'm pretty sure it doesn't really want that Jun 27 15:39:19 it's the osso-software-version that wants kernel-diablo-flasher Jun 27 15:39:40 a-m just lists all unsatisfied dependencies in that dialog, which ends up being a bit confusing Jun 27 15:39:55 X-Fade: yo Jun 27 15:40:01 X-Fade: svn still broken. >_> help? Jun 27 15:40:41 rm_you: Are you sure it isn't your local setup? Can you do a clean check out on a different location? Jun 27 15:41:04 ahh Jun 27 15:41:47 mgedmin: well, it stops it, and there's no way to run apt-get -f install on the tablet currently Jun 27 15:41:58 cloakable: are you sure that's the only thing that stops it? Jun 27 15:42:10 rm_you: it was the svn add problem? Jun 27 15:42:12 gpe-calendar isn't there Jun 27 15:42:15 I never saw fewer than four missing dependencies when I tried tos intall something in diablo Jun 27 15:42:22 the three irrelevant ones and the real ones Jun 27 15:42:31 rm_you: with PROPFIND 302 found? Jun 27 15:42:45 Stskeeps: yes Jun 27 15:43:00 X-Fade: i can do a clean checkout... but never any commit Jun 27 15:43:15 X-Fade: can you possibly look and see what is happening? Jun 27 15:43:16 X-Fade: i tried on two different OS'es. the reason it doesn't work is because there's a custom 404 error handler, which fucks svn up Jun 27 15:43:33 I guess I'll just wait for Diablo to stabilise, I guess. Jun 27 15:43:51 X-Fade: http://ynniv.com/blog/2005/12/troubling-svn-error.html Jun 27 15:45:01 * mgedmin is so happy he only uses non-anonymous svn over ssh Jun 27 15:56:21 X-Fade: so... sup? :P Jun 27 15:58:01 X-Fade: is the extras-builder / proxy working yet? Jun 27 15:58:24 rm_you: I really don't know. I have never had that on garage. And i commit to a lot of projects. Jun 27 15:58:52 X-Fade: i can add you to my project, see if you can add ANY files? Jun 27 15:58:56 even an empty text file Jun 27 15:59:11 X-Fade: Stskeeps link made sense Jun 27 15:59:30 rm_you: I'll try.. Jun 27 16:00:37 garage user? Jun 27 16:00:46 rm_you: I'm already added ;) Jun 27 16:00:49 lol Jun 27 16:00:51 yeah yeah Jun 27 16:01:00 mr. uberadmin Jun 27 16:09:20 hum Jun 27 16:09:39 seems i'm unable to set the destination folder for maps on maps app.... Jun 27 16:10:06 it try to put them to a partition that is too small Jun 27 16:10:30 i'm on cloned os Jun 27 16:11:31 back Jun 27 16:12:58 w00t at dependencies for fftw :D Jun 27 16:13:40 rm_you: I'm begining to believe it is because of your funky project name. Jun 27 16:13:45 .... Jun 27 16:13:50 pyshop Jun 27 16:13:53 rm_you: CamelCasing.. Jun 27 16:13:54 is FUNKY!? Jun 27 16:13:56 lol Jun 27 16:13:59 ah Jun 27 16:14:06 PyShop >_> Jun 27 16:14:13 that's how you name PyThings <_< Jun 27 16:14:26 rm_you: I think some parts of the system are case sensitive. That is what I can find on google at least. Jun 27 16:14:43 did you see the link Stskeeps found? Jun 27 16:14:50 http://ynniv.com/blog/2005/12/troubling-svn-error.html Jun 27 16:14:59 rm_you: Yeah, but I don't think that is it Jun 27 16:15:12 that sounds highly probable to me >_> but you're the webmaster Jun 27 16:15:40 And because he is master, you shall obey. Jun 27 16:15:41 :p Jun 27 16:17:25 The thing is, I get a 403 forbidden. Jun 27 16:17:34 ... Jun 27 16:19:56 [6~ Jun 27 16:19:58 X-Fade: http://pastebin.org/46558 Jun 27 16:20:12 rm_you: Can you file a bug for it? So I can let somebody else look at it too? Jun 27 16:20:26 k Jun 27 16:28:10 lcuk, I abandon the vis project for the moment, too much work for so little. I don't know/think/want to know how Canola sits together, and quite honestly, not a project I want to contribute to, also, the Media Player doesn't have a plugin system. And I don't feel like writing yet another media player for the NIT Jun 27 16:29:01 the other option would of course be to get data directly from the sound card, but again, I don't know how that sits together, plus I suck at math :P Jun 27 16:29:09 X-Fade: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3326 <--- is that good? Jun 27 16:30:11 Talking about sucking at math.. I just try to transform pixel by pixel algorithms to GPU stuff. Ouch. I fail.. Jun 27 16:32:40 PC GPU? Jun 27 16:33:24 Yes Jun 27 16:33:46 johnx: garage is conspiring to not let me go shopping Jun 27 16:34:02 conspiring with who? Jun 27 16:34:11 itself <_< Jun 27 16:34:18 AND MAYBE YOU!? Jun 27 16:34:24 who stands the most to gain by not letting you go shopping? Jun 27 16:35:02 rm_you does. Since he won't be spending any money. Jun 27 16:35:18 but then i'll die from lack of nourishment >_> Jun 27 16:35:24 Small price to pay! Jun 27 16:35:27 not that the food I buy is really nourishing, anyway Jun 27 16:35:38 * rm_you goes and grabs one of the last "meat" hotdogs Jun 27 16:35:59 * rm_you grabs the last Dr. Pepper while he's at it Jun 27 16:36:21 Adding the diablo sdk repo into my N800 was interesting and fun :/ Jun 27 16:36:29 >_< Jun 27 16:36:46 hi guys, any of you got roadmap running on diablo? mine crashes with a 'no more memory' error (running alone, 128MB of swap enabled) Jun 27 16:38:47 Nice, I didn't know garage has a bounties section. now, wheres the booties section? :P Jun 27 16:40:51 qwerty12, think of the people who have garage accounts. Now imagine what they look like. Now tell me again that you really want to see a booties section. :P Jun 27 16:41:18 ARRRGHHHHHHHHHHHH, I think I want to puke :O :P :D Jun 27 16:41:40 * rm_you watches Shaolin Soccer Jun 27 16:42:30 Heh, I wish application manager had a front end for apt-pinning where I could choose to not let certain packages show up in the update list :/ :( Jun 27 16:44:42 anybody know what would be the easiest way to get the spectrum of the sound that's outputted on the NIT ? Jun 27 16:44:50 qwerty12: h-a-m is open... Jun 27 16:45:09 crashanddie: connect it to the oscilloscope? ;P Jun 27 16:45:23 hrw, I know, but I'm not a programmer :). Best thing I ever done was make a quick patch to remove the nokia legal message. Jun 27 16:45:24 bleh Jun 27 16:45:27 other than that, there's no real way except an alsa plugin Jun 27 16:45:41 you could connect it to an input of some sound card too Jun 27 16:45:52 but would have to adjust for the problems of sound input Jun 27 16:46:37 AStorm, so I have to options, hack canola about and get in between the actual sound generation and output (or hack another media player), or play sound myself Jun 27 16:46:42 two** Jun 27 16:48:15 hm Jun 27 16:48:26 you could also write an alsa plugin to grab sound Jun 27 16:48:28 :) Jun 27 16:48:31 there is a filewriter Jun 27 16:51:11 * mgedmin mubmles "pulseaudio" Jun 27 16:52:35 mgedmin, does the stock NIT use pulse ? Jun 27 16:52:40 No Jun 27 16:52:44 esd iirc Jun 27 16:52:56 hey, esd also has the API for this, I believe Jun 27 16:53:02 there was an esd-based equalizer Jun 27 16:53:05 crashanddie, i didnt think you were doing it for a specific reason, i merely said it would be good to have visualizations and yours looked cool Jun 27 16:53:13 * lcuk thought you were just playing Jun 27 16:53:43 I believe xmms does visualisations and can output via esd or alsa Jun 27 17:04:41 xmms is old and bad Jun 27 17:04:50 write alsa eq plugin please :D Jun 27 17:05:09 of good quality if possible Jun 27 17:06:04 I want native ad2p support ;P Jun 27 17:06:13 Just because xmms is old does not mean it's bad. Jun 27 17:06:19 it's dead Jun 27 17:06:26 that does mean it's bad Jun 27 17:06:53 I want xmms Jun 27 17:06:56 thats all I want.... Jun 27 17:07:13 xmms is NOT a replacement for xmms... and neither is beep media player (the supposed xmms fork) Jun 27 17:07:29 * johnx should poke at getting a2dp working in canola Jun 27 17:07:35 should be trivial Jun 27 17:07:35 i'm tempted to maintain xmms myself >_> Jun 27 17:07:48 johnx: it uses gstreamer for audio... Jun 27 17:07:49 johnx: yeah well until it's native, it's not really usable Jun 27 17:07:57 Saviq: lies Jun 27 17:08:08 well I mean that it drains battery Jun 27 17:08:10 rm_you, it can use the OS2008 media player or mplayer Jun 27 17:08:13 lol Jun 27 17:08:22 johnx: mplayer only for video IIRC Jun 27 17:08:22 Saviq, being "native" won't magically fix this Jun 27 17:08:34 rm_you, you can set it in the atabake.conf file (sp?) Jun 27 17:08:38 unless the encoding's put on the dsp, no? Jun 27 17:08:42 I looked at one of the other xmms-clones... audacious maybe? When I got to the point where, to remove a file, they made a system() call to rm with no sanitizing of the arguments, I just deleted the whole thing and refused to ever run it. Jun 27 17:08:53 Saviq, aaah, so by native you mean "on the dsp" Jun 27 17:09:00 yeah, a bit Jun 27 17:09:04 johnx, can you get at enough of the canola source to run a2dp? Jun 27 17:09:05 Saviq, I wouldn't say that's necessarily true Jun 27 17:09:19 the CPU usage can be dramatically reduced through optimizations Jun 27 17:09:26 but yes, having it on the DSP would be really great Jun 27 17:09:37 yes, having it on the DSP would be great Jun 27 17:09:39 lcuk, no need to. just tweak one config file Jun 27 17:09:40 * rm_you pokes lardman|gone Jun 27 17:09:53 ...but misses, because lardman is |gone Jun 27 17:09:59 :) fair enough Jun 27 17:10:21 heck, I might as well right now...so I can see if I can use it on the train tomorrow Jun 27 17:11:22 onweather not working on diablo!! any tip? Jun 27 17:11:34 patience? Jun 27 17:12:16 look out of the window? Jun 27 17:12:34 or google it :) Jun 27 17:13:47 qwerty12, mgedmin, AStorm & lcuk: I think I've found a way... I'm back on it :P Jun 27 17:13:51 esd calls Jun 27 17:14:00 Brilliant, good luck :) Jun 27 17:14:08 crashanddie, i wasnt aware you were on it to begin with Jun 27 17:14:32 though, w00t to whatever you are back onto :D Jun 27 17:14:42 try not to fall off Jun 27 17:15:03 * crashanddie slaps both Jun 27 17:15:30 * lcuk pushes you back off the wagon# Jun 27 17:15:34 * johnx carelessly swings a ladder, hits crashanddie Jun 27 17:15:43 we're doing 3 stooges here, right? Jun 27 17:15:47 * lcuk watches crashanddie umm crashanddie Jun 27 17:16:41 No, the end is when you see ME IN YOUR DREAMS Jun 27 17:16:48 did diable remove the boot loader? Jun 27 17:17:05 i went shopping today for some new camouflage pants. Jun 27 17:17:19 i couldn't find any though Jun 27 17:17:34 skibur, do you mean "remove bootmenu"? Jun 27 17:17:47 yes Jun 27 17:17:51 sorry about Jun 27 17:17:52 yes, it did Jun 27 17:17:55 hum... Jun 27 17:18:00 it reflashed everything Jun 27 17:18:05 no biggie though, fanoush updated bootmenu for diablo Jun 27 17:18:06 qwerty, it would be a nightmare to see a southern jessie :P Jun 27 17:18:34 so its a different bootmenu for diablo Jun 27 17:19:07 does the rest of the kernel changes still work, or are they waitinf for fash to port and test stuff? Jun 27 17:19:14 lcuk, nah, it would be a nightmare because all you northerners would be too scared see me Jun 27 17:19:16 *fash special kernels Jun 27 17:19:32 lcuk, don't get you :/ Jun 27 17:19:52 bye Jun 27 17:20:02 can i still use the (for instance) faster memory card handling or other things in fashs custom kernel Jun 27 17:20:14 ah, fanoush Jun 27 17:20:19 or is fashs kernel not compatible now Jun 27 17:20:25 good point Jun 27 17:20:34 no, that kernel is for chinook, it will work, but you will lose diablo fixes and ipv5 Jun 27 17:20:36 * lcuk fixes all typos Jun 27 17:20:37 *ipv6 Jun 27 17:20:54 X-Fade: AH Jun 27 17:21:05 X-Fade: could also be a security certificate issue Jun 27 17:21:15 that failed when i tried to go to it in firefox Jun 27 17:21:15 but it isn't hard to get all that stuff back in diablo kernel, I've already patched the diablo kernel with rotation: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=196034&postcount=194 Jun 27 17:21:17 what about the rotate kernel module thingy? Jun 27 17:21:20 lol Jun 27 17:21:21 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=196034&postcount=194 Jun 27 17:21:53 That's only jott's patch for rotation though, the rest of the kernel is stock diablo Jun 27 17:22:27 * lcuk is glad he runs stock kernel now Jun 27 17:22:28 Hehe: http://zee-nix.blogspot.com/2008/06/shame-ubuntu-shame.html Jun 27 17:22:39 i would hate to get used to features like seen and lose them even for a few days Jun 27 17:23:39 any idea why my appication manager wont connection to any repository, but only when im on a certain internet connection? Jun 27 17:23:59 Meh, I never lose a kernel feature, I just recompile with the patch I need for a certain feature and flash that kernel to my device. Jun 27 17:24:03 that internet connection has limited connectivity Jun 27 17:24:03 dns problem on the others? or hard set dns? Jun 27 17:24:12 RST38h, you sound like xp :/ Jun 27 17:24:22 * RST38h *is* XP! Jun 27 17:24:27 ooh nice, fbreader has a diablo repo Jun 27 17:24:30 [be afrrraid! be verrry afrrraid!] Jun 27 17:24:34 aiii Jun 27 17:24:36 time to upgrade Jun 27 17:24:42 qwerty12, fbreader supports *everything* :D Jun 27 17:24:42 nope it works fine for everything else RST38h Jun 27 17:24:46 RST38h is downgraded vista Jun 27 17:25:10 johnx, yep, I like the team, they seem to work fast :) Jun 27 17:25:30 is it a team? I thought it was just that one guy? Jun 27 17:25:33 Atarii: weird then...no http proxying? Jun 27 17:26:01 nope, im sure it worked at one point, the AP has been restarted but still no luck Jun 27 17:26:01 johnx, no idea, I just presume team for everything when I don't see a name :/ Jun 27 17:26:06 johnx, even with 1 primary developer there can still be a team Jun 27 17:26:19 lcuk, fair enough :) Jun 27 17:29:16 hmm its just stuck on "Downloading 1 kb" Jun 27 17:29:48 reboot Jun 27 17:30:06 Atarii, run apt-get update from the command line, see what it hangs on Jun 27 17:30:15 then try to ping or traceroute that site Jun 27 17:30:24 ok thanks Jun 27 17:30:34 lcuk, no reason to ever reboot, except kernel upgrades on machines without kexec :) Jun 27 17:30:35 just remove all the extra crap repos - leave yourself with known good ones Jun 27 17:30:58 its a fresh flash so its only default repos atm Jun 27 17:31:00 lcuk, in some countries, nokia official repos are the ones that can't be reached Jun 27 17:31:08 oooer Jun 27 17:31:51 0 % [Connecting to catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com (1.0.0.0)] Jun 27 17:32:08 is that 1.0.0.0 meant to be the IP? Jun 27 17:32:14 Atarii, I think your DNS might be screwy on your ISP Jun 27 17:33:40 right, ill try adding OpenDNS Jun 27 17:34:11 weird that browsing the nets works fine Jun 27 17:34:42 that "1.0.0.0" doesn't look like an accident to me... Jun 27 17:34:59 I smell sabotage Jun 27 17:35:12 someone put those bits there! Jun 27 17:35:46 http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com Jun 27 17:36:14 1.0.0.0 is something to do with ipv6? Jun 27 17:36:48 hmmm...I don't think so Jun 27 17:37:15 :S Jun 27 17:37:35 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/81057 Jun 27 17:37:40 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14757298 Jun 27 17:38:49 right, ill try that also Jun 27 17:38:53 mgedmin, Just out of question, in your repo, the packages in the diablo folder; were they recompiled in DIABLO_SDK? Jun 27 17:38:57 im just thinking because ive heard people mentioning ip6 Jun 27 17:39:03 *DIABLO_ARMEL Jun 27 17:39:33 lcuk, that ubuntu bug thread is pretty interesting Jun 27 17:39:44 qwerty12: um, no :-) Jun 27 17:39:56 Heh :) Jun 27 17:40:59 lcuk: ipv6 addresses use : instead of . Jun 27 17:41:14 and have up to 6 bytes expressed in hex rather than 4 in decimal Jun 27 17:41:38 mgedmin, yes understood, but once you start the routers you use get fscked and start replying to ip4 requests incorrectly Jun 27 17:41:51 with 1.0.0.0 Jun 27 17:42:10 thats what im reading anyway Jun 27 17:42:12 hm, never heard of that Jun 27 17:42:28 have a look at the posts i just put if your mildly curious Jun 27 17:42:30 ffs now my nokia is randomly rebooting Jun 27 17:42:42 i swear this house has an anti-technology curse Jun 27 17:43:02 Atarii, I've heard of it before. You're gonna need a live goat for this one... Jun 27 17:43:11 johnx, see atariis nokia thinks it needs to reboot :P Jun 27 17:43:31 heh :p Jun 27 17:43:32 lcuk will volunteer, as northerners are goats :P Jun 27 17:43:51 lcuk, grrr. :P Jun 27 17:44:04 fun bug Jun 27 17:44:14 seems like it Jun 27 17:44:36 * lcuk chews through qwerty's internet cable Jun 27 17:44:41 as tech gets more complex we start to see weird stuff like this Jun 27 17:44:56 nahhh, computers have done weird shit since the start Jun 27 17:45:07 free radicals Jun 27 17:45:29 they did, jack bauer is out of prison Jun 27 17:46:29 lcuk, yeah, but the place for bugs to hide is getting bigger Jun 27 17:47:19 http://www.matetelki.com/give/ - I quite like the sound of this one. Jun 27 17:47:21 much bigger, keeping a small tight code base allows bugs to be effectively ironed out quickly :) Jun 27 17:47:34 hum... Jun 27 17:48:16 qwerty12, that's pretty darn neat Jun 27 17:48:20 so now ive changed the dns settings to manual on the nokia, and "Internet connection failed. Try again?" comes up when trying to connect to the wifi :S Jun 27 17:48:46 openssh is ok? Jun 27 17:48:54 for diablo Jun 27 17:48:56 need root Jun 27 17:49:06 skibur, yes. works here and for many others Jun 27 17:51:03 ok Jun 27 17:51:04 thanks Jun 27 17:54:52 hum.. Jun 27 17:55:16 its a fail on here ---> https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/maemo_extras_diablo_rebuild.php Jun 27 17:55:39 is this the same thing Jun 27 18:00:18 out of curiosity, has *anyone* had a2dp working in diablo? Jun 27 18:00:32 * rm_you forgot to try Jun 27 18:00:35 * rm_you will try now Jun 27 18:06:10 what I can do with a2dp? Jun 27 18:06:22 play sound to a2dp bluetooth headphones Jun 27 18:06:29 also, waste battery power Jun 27 18:06:35 both are worthy goals Jun 27 18:06:50 johnx: you had to choose the most annoying words didnt you Jun 27 18:06:53 enable/disable Jun 27 18:06:57 what happened to ON and OFF Jun 27 18:07:01 lol Jun 27 18:07:10 rm_you, I have a couple |s in the script already Jun 27 18:07:14 add your favorites :P Jun 27 18:07:16 lol Jun 27 18:08:52 johnx, but I used my bt hset with n810 ... Jun 27 18:09:07 on chinook Jun 27 18:09:11 A2DP lets you have stereo sound Jun 27 18:09:19 hum Jun 27 18:09:20 with higher quality Jun 27 18:09:26 this is better Jun 27 18:09:38 I getting a very low sound Jun 27 18:09:45 a decception Jun 27 18:10:49 Johnx: my Debian stay working nice with diablo's kernel Jun 27 18:11:38 Anunakin, good to hear Jun 27 18:13:29 johnx: hrm.... Jun 27 18:13:32 alsa-lib: pcm.c:2144:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM bluetooth Jun 27 18:13:44 rm_you, rebooted yet? Jun 27 18:13:46 I made some changes to chroot script... and now this works with boot or chroot Jun 27 18:13:51 johnx: truth Jun 27 18:14:01 been so long since i did this :P Jun 27 18:14:12 rm_you, RTFM :P Jun 27 18:14:32 lol Jun 27 18:15:00 shhh i've been up for 19 hours <_< Jun 27 18:15:15 not that it should matter Jun 27 18:15:27 * rm_you drinks that Dr. Pepper Jun 27 18:15:41 any page with new thinks on diablo? not patckages but new functions? like A2DP Jun 27 18:18:06 hrm Jun 27 18:18:23 Anunakin, there's a page with new and changed packages Jun 27 18:18:41 but the "new features" list is pretty short: email client, ssu updates Jun 27 18:19:04 can anyone recommend a good IRC client for the N800 please? Jun 27 18:19:24 strange, when I download things from nokia site (firmware, flasher apps) with firefox3 they have a comma on the end of the name Jun 27 18:19:26 xchat Jun 27 18:19:41 jacques-work, same here. I assume it happens to everyone Jun 27 18:20:09 I'll check it out. Thank you Jun 27 18:20:42 johnx, thanks, good to know Jun 27 18:21:54 wow after reboot my wireless won't connect at all Jun 27 18:24:22 Anyone know why when i run a app through the application menu, instead of saying " loading", it says: "ckct_ib_application Loading"? Jun 27 18:24:41 broke your locale files somehow? Jun 27 18:25:03 shitfuck :( Jun 27 18:25:49 maybe got some too new package :) Jun 27 18:26:04 johnx: hrm, bad Jun 27 18:26:16 rm_you, I'm getting no luck here either Jun 27 18:26:23 alsa-lib: pcm_bluetooth.c:1589:(bluetooth_init) BT_GETCAPABILITIES failed : Input/output error(5) Jun 27 18:26:23 alsa-init: playback open error: Input/output error Jun 27 18:26:26 I hope this isn't affecting lardman as well :/ Jun 27 18:26:28 rm_you, same here Jun 27 18:26:28 getting that? Jun 27 18:26:43 i have a hypothesis Jun 27 18:26:45 sec Jun 27 18:26:50 let me test it and turn it into a theory Jun 27 18:35:41 yay Jun 27 18:35:46 johnx: hypothesis confirmed Jun 27 18:35:49 rm_you, luck? Jun 27 18:35:54 good? bad? Jun 27 18:36:07 wget http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.0.1/free/b/bluez-libs/libbluetooth2_3.22-0osso1_armel.deb && dpkg -i libbluetooth2_3.22-0osso1_armel.deb Jun 27 18:36:08 win Jun 27 18:36:15 lol Jun 27 18:36:21 * rm_you is happy Jun 27 18:36:30 some kind of bug in .28? Jun 27 18:36:35 apparently Jun 27 18:36:42 chinook libbluetooth2 works tho Jun 27 18:36:44 :) Jun 27 18:36:46 sad failiness Jun 27 18:36:51 may just have to recompile .28 Jun 27 18:36:56 i'll do that when i wake up Jun 27 18:37:02 if you or lardman or someone hasn't Jun 27 18:37:14 grrr...but that means we don't get the nice .28 speed ups? Jun 27 18:37:20 and compare .22 to .28 to see what caused the regression Jun 27 18:37:24 no Jun 27 18:37:29 i'll recompile .28 and work on getting it fixed Jun 27 18:37:43 fuck it, i'll do it now Jun 27 18:37:56 I tested .30 in debian I believe with good results Jun 27 18:38:05 maybe i'll go straight to that Jun 27 18:38:13 you have the source/patches you used for that? Jun 27 18:38:14 uhm...I'm getting the same thing still Jun 27 18:38:20 or did you use the straight debian thing Jun 27 18:38:24 rm_you, I just pulled it from debian Jun 27 18:38:26 rm_you, rebooted yet? Jun 27 18:38:27 :P Jun 27 18:38:35 rm_you, yes, I just did Jun 27 18:38:44 well, all it took for me was a reboot Jun 27 18:38:50 and then a2dp enable Jun 27 18:38:54 and mplayer :) Jun 27 18:39:50 still failing here :/ Jun 27 18:40:38 hrm Jun 27 18:40:43 that's really all i did Jun 27 18:40:50 it's just weird that hcidump is saying *nothing* when it fails Jun 27 18:41:05 apt-cache policy libbluetooth2 ? Jun 27 18:41:26 3.22 Jun 27 18:41:39 hrm Jun 27 18:41:49 i am running mplayer as root? Jun 27 18:41:51 >_> Jun 27 18:41:55 that's the only thing i can think of Jun 27 18:41:57 uhm, no of course not Jun 27 18:42:15 ? Jun 27 18:42:21 I did try earlier, actually, just for shits and grins Jun 27 18:42:29 of course it had no affect Jun 27 18:42:33 well, i am Jun 27 18:42:35 sec Jun 27 18:42:42 eh? why? Jun 27 18:42:51 just was in root already Jun 27 18:43:30 yeah, working great as user too >_> Jun 27 18:43:35 same exact error? Jun 27 18:43:41 which mplayer you on? Jun 27 18:44:14 .27 Jun 27 18:44:15 and you? Jun 27 18:48:06 rm_you, are you sure you didn't downgrade bluez-utils as well? Jun 27 18:49:11 also, did Nokia just push an update to tablet-browser-daemon? Jun 27 18:49:14 I'm impressed Jun 27 18:51:50 johnx: yes, very sure Jun 27 18:51:54 johnx: and yes, .27 Jun 27 18:52:04 did you do EVERYTHING in your own manual? :P Jun 27 18:52:24 rm_you, ffs, yes Jun 27 18:52:34 * johnx re-reads Jun 27 18:52:57 there's only like 2 steps Jun 27 18:53:32 1. ??? 2. PROFIT! ? Jun 27 18:53:36 lol Jun 27 18:53:38 just sayin Jun 27 18:53:41 mine works great Jun 27 18:53:46 and i just followed your steps Jun 27 18:53:55 for whatever value of great goes with bluez 3.22 Jun 27 18:54:01 well, i actually went through to check everything manually, but it all checked out Jun 27 18:54:05 anyone got a wispy and want to test some code? Jun 27 18:56:56 i forgot to pair my headset cause i did it before the flash <_< Jun 27 18:57:24 but then i remembered :P Jun 27 18:57:27 * rm_you is tired Jun 27 18:57:40 * rm_you is trying libbluetooth2 3.33-1 Jun 27 18:58:34 the maemo sdk script is kinda painfully bad...just cause I'm running an amd64 kernel doesn't mean I have a 64bit userspace... Jun 27 18:59:12 * RST38h still does not understand what is so special about amd64 that maemosdk does not install on it Jun 27 18:59:41 johnx: try: Jun 27 18:59:42 probably qemu issues Jun 27 18:59:44 http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/libbluetooth2_3.33-1_armel.deb Jun 27 18:59:47 working great too Jun 27 19:00:13 straight compile from the debian patched source Jun 27 19:00:18 from Sid :P Jun 27 19:00:48 looks like it just ships with a broken .28 Jun 27 19:01:47 still playing my videos flawlessly with a2dp :P Jun 27 19:01:48 <3 Jun 27 19:02:02 rm_you, no love Jun 27 19:02:11 I swear you did something else to Jun 27 19:02:34 you didn't even try a different bluez-utils and then change back? Jun 27 19:02:44 nope Jun 27 19:03:17 the libbluetooth deb you linked includes nothing that has to do with a2dp Jun 27 19:03:26 that's just the basic, common bluetooth stuff Jun 27 19:03:35 bluez-utils: Installed: 3.28-0osso4 Jun 27 19:03:47 i *swear* thats all i did Jun 27 19:03:55 install that, reboot, done Jun 27 19:04:08 rm_you, want to try changing back to make me feel better? :) Jun 27 19:04:21 if you change back to 3.28 and it breaks, I'll believe you Jun 27 19:04:22 err, on reboot my wireless was broken, so i cycled offline/online a couple times Jun 27 19:04:24 k Jun 27 19:04:26 will try Jun 27 19:04:40 wait Jun 27 19:04:44 you try that first Jun 27 19:04:48 cycle your offline/online modes Jun 27 19:05:00 maybe it re-initializes the bluetooth stuff? Jun 27 19:05:07 oh Jun 27 19:05:11 lol Jun 27 19:05:18 * lcuk wishes he could upgrade his brain to scrollback reallife Jun 27 19:05:20 also I did /etc/init.d/bluez-utils restart Jun 27 19:05:29 totally forgot that Jun 27 19:06:59 anyway, reverting Jun 27 19:07:51 hmmm "Nokia N800 Internet Tablet WiFi built in GPS" Jun 27 19:08:07 and yes, its an 800 Jun 27 19:10:38 yeah they lie Jun 27 19:12:42 johnx: yeah ok fine, you win Jun 27 19:12:54 it works back on .28 Jun 27 19:12:55 so... Jun 27 19:13:06 all i did was /etc/init.d/bluez-utils restart Jun 27 19:13:06 lcuk, might be easier than I thought it was. Laying out the C++ architecture at the mo... ! Jun 27 19:13:11 but now ! PIZZZAAA TIME ! Jun 27 19:13:11 BBL Jun 27 19:13:22 "Jan, tell him what he's won!" "A braaaand new car!" Jun 27 19:13:25 * lcuk still has no idea wtf you are doing Jun 27 19:13:30 i must have missed a conversation Jun 27 19:13:54 * Cptnodegard is just home from liberty city. good to see the real world is still here Jun 27 19:13:54 * lcuk wonders if he was sleeptyping Jun 27 19:13:56 lcuk, I'm working on a very small app, that will draw a spectrum of the sound currently outputted by the NIT Jun 27 19:14:04 johnx: so Jun 27 19:14:12 ahhh right - with the wav thing Jun 27 19:14:12 johnx: did THAT fix it? Jun 27 19:14:17 cuz i got nothin else Jun 27 19:14:20 rm_you, for me? Jun 27 19:14:20 * lcuk is on the same page now Jun 27 19:14:23 :) Jun 27 19:14:25 yeah Jun 27 19:14:27 i didnt think it was a big deal thou lol Jun 27 19:14:31 /etc/init.d/bluez-utils restart Jun 27 19:14:32 rm_you, nope :/ Jun 27 19:14:38 :/ Jun 27 19:14:46 lcuk, it's... challenging :P Again Jun 27 19:14:58 * lcuk knows all about challenges Jun 27 19:15:01 johnx: i can't think of anything else. Jun 27 19:15:09 neither can I Jun 27 19:15:09 johnx: ask me things, i'll answer :/ Jun 27 19:15:13 :( Jun 27 19:15:37 if your asoundrc correct? >_> Jun 27 19:15:39 *is Jun 27 19:15:46 crashanddie, i just build little modules of things all the time to test theories Jun 27 19:16:04 it is, cause it works if I switch a2dp for auto Jun 27 19:16:14 then it tries to use SCO Jun 27 19:16:53 johnx: .... check the disable sink thing? >_> Jun 27 19:17:04 yeah, I did, like a million times Jun 27 19:17:16 I even did it by hand in audio.conf Jun 27 19:17:40 tried once with the automatically generated one from my own .deb and once with modifying the one in diablo Jun 27 19:17:47 hrm Jun 27 19:17:48 re Jun 27 19:17:52 rm_you, anyways, just tell me what kind of CPU usage you see Jun 27 19:17:58 that's what I'm most interested in Jun 27 19:18:16 Taking into account both the price and the features...overall which device would you guys say is better...the n800 or the n810? Jun 27 19:18:22 Standard n810, not WiMax Jun 27 19:18:42 johnx: mine: http://pastebin.org/46590 Jun 27 19:19:02 cjohnson, it depends on whether you want the keyboard, sunlight readable screen and the (kinda lame) GPS Jun 27 19:19:27 rm_you, yeah, I'm pretty confident mine is right Jun 27 19:19:32 johnx, the if I don't care about the keyboard and I already have a bluetooth GPS Jun 27 19:19:33 cjohnson, i originally saw the 800 and went "meh!", i saw the 810 and went "wow!" the keyboard (whilst not perfect) allows you to type AND see what you are doing. that alone makes it the winner Jun 27 19:19:44 cjohnson: i prefer a bluetooth keyboard, my GPS is better, and i dont go out in the sun (i'm not INSANE)... plus i have 2 SD slots in my n800 :P Jun 27 19:19:47 lcuk, I have a BT kbd Jun 27 19:19:51 so do i Jun 27 19:19:58 cjohnson, then get an n800 and enjoy the extra SD card slot Jun 27 19:20:08 rm_you, I'm in the same boat as you...I chose the n800 but my dad is getting one Jun 27 19:20:10 cjohnson: definitely n800 Jun 27 19:20:12 but you dont wanna be getting it out every 5 minutes just to type a url or a password or something Jun 27 19:20:24 lcuk, for that I don't mind the half-screen kbd Jun 27 19:20:26 lcuk: no, you use the thumbboard for that Jun 27 19:20:30 lcuk, I'm quite proficient with the stylus Jun 27 19:20:33 thumbboard works very well Jun 27 19:20:35 then your mind is already amde up Jun 27 19:20:42 lcuk, I was asking for my dad Jun 27 19:20:57 then has your dad got a bt keyboard? Jun 27 19:21:07 lcuk, but I know he'll hate a tiny little keyboard, the difference between an onscreen kbd and the slide out will be nothing Jun 27 19:21:20 and he already has a bluetooth gps device as well Jun 27 19:21:20 its a world of difference imho Jun 27 19:21:34 he won't see it so Jun 27 19:21:43 have you got 800 Jun 27 19:21:47 I do Jun 27 19:21:55 give it him for a few days and see if he likes it Jun 27 19:22:04 if ihe does you have your answer, if not try the 810 Jun 27 19:22:09 or something entirely different Jun 27 19:22:17 lcuk, he lives hours away, and I can't live without it for the time it takes between our visits :P Jun 27 19:22:34 so, what about the system itself. is it faster? Jun 27 19:22:39 the OS is the same I assume Jun 27 19:22:42 both take the same os2008 Jun 27 19:22:49 same os, same cpu speed Jun 27 19:22:52 the only thing I don't like the fullscreen thumboard for is chatting (read: attempting to chat) on IM or IRC Jun 27 19:22:57 battery life better/worse? camera? Jun 27 19:23:12 camera is crap either way Jun 27 19:23:18 johnx, yeah, but if I'm chatting I have room to prop my bt kbd on my lap Jun 27 19:23:21 lcuk, figured Jun 27 19:23:22 battery life, very similar. camera, just as bad, but only faces forwards Jun 27 19:23:24 810 feels more grown up though Jun 27 19:23:39 lcuk, seems more like a "professional" device you mean? Jun 27 19:23:44 lcuk, or are features more refined? Jun 27 19:23:44 i like the lock slider on mine Jun 27 19:23:48 lcuk, did you buy into the marketing? :P Jun 27 19:23:51 ooooh, lock slider Jun 27 19:23:58 that's the one thing I wish n800 had Jun 27 19:24:04 actually its a very good feature Jun 27 19:24:05 that and either make the camera good or remove it Jun 27 19:24:11 guys, lcuk drank the kool-aid. :P Jun 27 19:24:34 i never liked the odd shape of the 800 either Jun 27 19:24:39 * lcuk drinks beer actually Jun 27 19:24:41 How odd? Jun 27 19:24:52 front facing? or the rounded top back portion? Jun 27 19:24:53 its got a rounded bulge hasnt it Jun 27 19:25:02 it's a mild bulge Jun 27 19:25:02 johnx: ~60% CPU on mplayer Jun 27 19:25:04 I don't notice it Jun 27 19:25:27 are n800s in stock anywhere? Jun 27 19:25:46 rm_you, ick, I won't bother then Jun 27 19:26:09 cjohnson, the one big bonus about 800 is price Jun 27 19:26:17 yeah Jun 27 19:26:18 * sp3000 giggles Jun 27 19:26:21 "libc6-dev was my favorite package for chinook." Jun 27 19:26:25 I'll wait for my scratchbox env to set itself up for the billionth time and then compile 3.32 or whatever nokia has patches for Jun 27 19:26:26 johnx: ? that's with hi-res video too <_< Jun 27 19:26:28 <3 Jun 27 19:26:34 johnx: thats with .33 Jun 27 19:26:39 i like extra SD slot though, I copied my OS to it to remove stress from internal flash and give myself more OS room Jun 27 19:26:51 rm_you, you only changed libbluetooth.so...that won't affect CPU usage Jun 27 19:27:05 all the sbc stuff happens in libs shipped with bluez-utils Jun 27 19:27:08 i thought .33 was supposed to include a bunch of SBC patches Jun 27 19:27:13 ah Jun 27 19:27:20 you weren't listening earlier :P Jun 27 19:27:20 * rm_you goes to recompile Jun 27 19:27:27 But in the US are there any places (online) I could get an n800 new right now? I've been looking and haven't found Jun 27 19:28:18 wow...stock dried up fast Jun 27 19:28:50 :( Jun 27 19:28:56 google seems to know of a few Jun 27 19:29:07 but not nearly as cheap as it was a month ago or so Jun 27 19:29:16 I got mine like a month and a half ago Jun 27 19:29:21 I saw it for 200 on newegg Jun 27 19:29:29 check tigerdirect.com it shows them instock at $219.99 Jun 27 19:29:30 less than a week later newegg completely removed it from the list Jun 27 19:29:54 woo! Jun 27 19:30:02 it won't load :'( Jun 27 19:32:02 rm_you, alright, I need to catch some sleep. Hopefully I'll wake up to find my Diablo scratchbox is nicely installed and working. Jun 27 19:32:46 lol Jun 27 19:32:48 johnx: kk Jun 27 19:32:57 ima compile new debian bluez-utils Jun 27 19:33:21 rm_you, look at Nokia's sources too Jun 27 19:33:32 saves you the trouble of mucking with the debian control file Jun 27 19:35:43 I asked earlier about recommendations for a good irc client for the n800 and was recommended xchat. I have been looking all over but can't find it for os2008. Can someone point me in the right direction please? Jun 27 19:35:55 debian really wonders me at times.. "remove fam" "package dependancy libfam not installed".. Jun 27 19:37:11 Tamagotono, google for xchat maemo chinook Jun 27 19:37:28 actually, try xchat skyhuser Jun 27 19:37:49 grr...hang on I'll just find a link Jun 27 19:38:58 skyhusker I guess Jun 27 19:39:00 http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/ Jun 27 19:39:13 it says beta, but it works fine Jun 27 19:39:14 OK, I feel stupid now. I tried other google searches but didn't think about adding chinook! Thank you for your help. Jun 27 19:40:38 wow scratchbox.org is SLOOOOW Jun 27 19:41:39 Tamagotono, I love you :D Jun 27 19:41:55 Tamagotono, dad's getting an n800 now D: Jun 27 19:41:57 :D* Jun 27 19:42:06 glad I could help Jun 27 19:42:44 Tamagotono, that grr wasn't direct at you BTW, it was at my complete failure to find xchat with my own search terms O_o Jun 27 19:43:05 I got mine off of craigslist a couple of months ago. $170 !!! only slightly used :) Jun 27 19:43:18 * Jaffa gets into dependency hell trying to build gnupg, gives up and raises a bug instead Jun 27 19:44:20 Tamagotono, I prefer my electronics to be new...I just have bad luck with used items Jun 27 19:44:45 johnx, how dare you >:o Jun 27 19:44:50 * rm_you bought his n800 used Jun 27 19:44:54 cjohnson: or you get ripped off Jun 27 19:45:04 kkrusty, yeah. Jun 27 19:45:19 I figured it was worth the risk since he had the receipt, I figured if it didnt work I could send it in for repair. Jun 27 19:45:21 cjohnson: only saying because it happened to me too :( Jun 27 19:45:36 kkrusty, it's happened to me before Jun 27 19:45:50 kkrusty, now I only shop electronics on Amazon, MicroCenter, NewEgg, or TigerDirect Jun 27 19:46:01 kkrusty, and in fact I buy almost nothing off eBay Jun 27 19:53:13 jaffa, like i said yesterday: am i safe to install diablo yet? ;) Jun 27 19:56:14 Is there any extra configuration required to connect with xchat. I have it installed but cannot connect to the server. It might be the network here at work but my laptop is working fine with it. Jun 27 19:57:48 if you can get internet from your device usually you can get xchat Jun 27 19:58:44 but i dunno which port it uses, it might be possible that its firewalled Jun 27 20:02:28 thats what I am thinking. Trying to see if my laptop uses a diffrent port. Jun 27 20:08:49 evening Jun 27 20:09:01 hello dneary Jun 27 20:10:07 Hello again everybody :) Jun 27 20:10:17 woohoo it was the port that was blocked! Jun 27 20:10:21 lcuk: diablo seems fine-ish to me. still having RSS weirdness Jun 27 20:10:50 RST38h: Howdy Jun 27 20:12:18 ~mgedmin Jun 27 20:33:41 I just installed diablo, I hadn't upgraded to chinnok Jun 27 20:33:43 chinook Jun 27 20:33:47 seems nice so far Jun 27 20:34:13 but I hear the method for getting root access has changed since I did it long ago Jun 27 20:34:23 ~easyroot Jun 27 20:34:23 methinks easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com Jun 27 20:34:40 cool, looking... Jun 27 20:36:41 ssh root@localhost works just as well Jun 27 20:36:41 Joy, more pre-teen wiki spam Jun 27 20:36:58 lots of neat stuff on nitapps.com :-) Jun 27 20:37:00 Jaffa: show it show it pleazzzze =) Jun 27 20:37:10 rolledback already :) Jun 27 20:37:35 RST38h, thanks Jun 27 20:38:16 nano from nitapps crashes when attempting to search (^W) Jun 27 20:38:40 vi! Jun 27 20:38:45 anyone has got a working version? Jun 27 20:39:05 GA: no arrows. can't be any good without arrows. =) Jun 27 20:39:29 RST38h: you sure Ctrl-W isn't closing the window? I have a problem pressing Ctrl-E to go to the end of the line - it brings up the search box Jun 27 20:39:44 I thought arrows did work in vi Jun 27 20:39:49 at least they do on my desktop Jun 27 20:40:00 * Jaffa has just submitted vim to the auto-builder as well Jun 27 20:40:25 Search in nano segfaults. Jun 27 20:40:39 oops, I have vi aliased to vim, so vim has arrows Jun 27 20:40:49 Jaffa: Definitely not - I have spent half of my life with pico Jun 27 20:41:01 Arrows work in the built-in vi in Maemo Jun 27 20:41:14 RST38h: I meant in the terminal emulator. You crash out to a shell? Jun 27 20:41:27 Jaffa: yea, but not in the edit mode :) Jun 27 20:41:33 Jaffa: yep Jun 27 20:42:02 run nano either in osso-xterm or in ssh session, press ^W, and it will die on you Jun 27 20:42:53 Meh I dislike nano as I *hate(d)* pico Jun 27 20:44:14 * RST38h likes pico: it is stupid, has arrows, and does not get in the way (except for its habit of breaking long lines) Jun 27 20:44:33 * GeneralAntilles wishes you could resolve as duplicate in gforge tracker. . . . Jun 27 20:44:38 So satisfying. Jun 27 20:45:41 GeneralAntilles: is this closed correctly you think? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3326 Jun 27 20:45:56 it seems like it isn't invalid, as there is incorrect information on the SCM page >_> Jun 27 20:46:07 Then say as much. Jun 27 20:46:14 i did... Jun 27 20:46:20 should i reopen it? Jun 27 20:46:39 * GeneralAntilles should put his glasses on Jun 27 20:47:04 Well, if that's the issue, change the summary and reopen? Jun 27 20:47:28 Modest email fetch died again. Jun 27 20:48:04 Who allowed this program into the firmware? At least the old mail client did not die when fetching mail =( Jun 27 20:48:50 Sure it did. Jun 27 20:48:57 Right after it filled up all of my RAM. Jun 27 20:49:08 I think the old email app killed kittens Jun 27 20:49:19 sp3000: After it filled up all of their RAM. Jun 27 20:49:25 so it may have been better, depending on your priorities Jun 27 20:52:37 Actually, I guess technically the old mail client would not crash. Jun 27 20:52:53 It would start thrashing the page file and eventually cause the entire tablet to reboot. Jun 27 20:53:31 * rm_you sleeps Jun 27 20:53:32 night Jun 27 20:53:40 night rm_you Jun 27 20:54:16 * RST38h never had old client do any of these things Jun 27 20:54:19 But I've heard modest has a 15k message limit, so, you know, not much better. Jun 27 20:54:35 and if that client did kill kittents, it made sure to do it when I was not watching Jun 27 20:55:21 btw, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmfHHLfbjNQ Jun 27 20:55:24 RST38h: I have multiple, large, IMAP folders that all have mail delivered directly to them. Jun 27 20:55:28 I break mail clients. Jun 27 20:55:49 well, do not have large imap folders and do not ask your client to load message bodies Jun 27 20:56:05 I _didn't_. Jun 27 20:56:39 on the other hand, it depends on how large - you may end up filling memory with just email headers Jun 27 20:56:59 I set up the account, at no point suggesting it download message bodies, and it never recovered from that. Jun 27 20:57:10 RST38h: Only 20-30k messages at most. Jun 27 20:59:54 should not break then Jun 27 21:00:12 not with memory overload unless it was doing something MAJORLY wrong Jun 27 21:00:12 There's a thread on -developers discussing the message limit. Jun 27 21:00:36 who cares about the message limit when the thing crashes when fetching mail? Jun 27 21:00:53 also crashes when I run it and it goes to scan remote folders for the first time Jun 27 21:00:55 Er, apparently, we do right now, as we're discussing it. :P Jun 27 21:01:02 lucky guys Jun 27 21:01:04 One of my friends recently told me of a guy he met who had just been on a trip to DC. Jun 27 21:01:18 Who said it was great, except for the fact that he got held up at gunpoint. Jun 27 21:01:20 derf: was he robbed? Jun 27 21:01:24 hehe Jun 27 21:01:26 * RST38h knew it Jun 27 21:01:31 To which my friend responded, "Well, that couldn't have happened, because guns are banned in DC." Jun 27 21:01:37 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/38016 Jun 27 21:01:47 Pfft Jun 27 21:02:02 Anyway, I wasn't going to try it twice. Jun 27 21:02:15 It may be slow, crappy, and extremely cumbersome, but at least webmail _works_. Jun 27 21:02:35 * RST38h for 10 last years been suggesting to just wall DC off, airdrop automatic weapons, ammo, food, and drugs, then wait Jun 27 21:02:44 RST38h: I live here. Jun 27 21:02:50 Do itDo itDo it Jun 27 21:02:54 [there is no need to evacuate the government] Jun 27 21:02:55 I'd appreciate it fi you didn't. Jun 27 21:03:17 derf: which neighborhood? Jun 27 21:03:28 Arlington. Jun 27 21:03:36 Arlington, derf, is NOT DC Jun 27 21:03:36 Not exactly in DC, but inside the beltway. Jun 27 21:03:43 * RST38h lived near Arlington Jun 27 21:04:12 It is very difficult to get held at gunpoint in Arlignton, especially considering that the place kinda dies out in off-work hours Jun 27 21:04:35 I don't know where you lived, but my neighborhood gets substantially louder after work hours. Jun 27 21:04:57 Especially on Fridays. Jun 27 21:04:58 derf: Wilson boulevard? Jun 27 21:07:16 GA: I am kinda unsure on why he says that 12MB flash write will hang device for minutes Jun 27 21:07:23 Well, let's just say I live where I do because the street was filled with abandoned, foreclosed homes _before_ there was a subprime mortgage crisis. Jun 27 21:07:47 GA: But if flash writes are such a problem, he can probably gzwrite() envelopes - they will compress handsomely Jun 27 21:08:34 derf: In Arligton? Mmm, you must have been searching for this place for a long time =) Jun 27 21:09:18 One block to the south it's very, very nice. Jun 27 21:09:24 I can't afford to live there. Jun 27 21:09:27 When I lived there, every place that even remotely looked like a slum was filled with latinos Jun 27 21:10:25 Latinos, blacks, you name it. Jun 27 21:10:33 Have not seen blacks there Jun 27 21:10:50 It is VA, so welfare rules must have been different from DC Jun 27 21:13:47 If the real-estate boom had continued for another year or two, I think it would've cleaned up a lot. Jun 27 21:14:06 A lot of people were cashing out of homes that had doubled and tripled in value and moving somewhere else. Jun 27 21:14:17 *moved Jun 27 21:15:27 Well. Kaboom. Jun 27 21:15:47 Probably going to shop for a house soon =) Jun 27 21:16:04 Yeah. But if you want to buy a house inside the beltway for $130k, you still can. Jun 27 21:16:12 It "needs some work". Jun 27 21:17:12 Nah, probably going to settle in MA Jun 27 21:17:47 Probably smarter. Jun 27 21:18:04 No way I am living inside DC beltway. Outside sounds better, but I hate the weather Jun 27 21:18:28 Would prefer Alaska, actually, if it had and computer industry :) Jun 27 21:18:53 Who needs a computer industry? Jun 27 21:18:59 All you need is an internet connection. Jun 27 21:19:17 Well, yes and no Jun 27 21:19:58 Telecommuting work can be found, but a lot of employers still want to see your sad face on daily basis Jun 27 21:24:00 * lcuk takes a deep breath and tries c++ Jun 27 21:27:03 tries ? Jun 27 21:27:38 You'd better be good my fried, you wouldn't want me to humiliate you, would you now :P Jun 27 21:27:53 good, my friend** Jun 27 21:28:11 Doesn't matter, he wont release any sources, anyway. ;) :P Jun 27 21:29:32 crashanddie, :) remember me telling you i whipped through college eating courses... c++ was one of them - however ive not touched it since because i didnt have a need Jun 27 21:30:06 but managing the objects is getting tiresome, i need some help Jun 27 21:30:24 GeneralAntilles, I'll give him one fag per header file :P Jun 27 21:30:38 GeneralAntilles, he's a nicotine addict, just gotta know how to talk to them :P Jun 27 21:30:57 * lcuk looks at his supply of tobacco Jun 27 21:31:26 lcuk, what is your c++ problem? Jun 27 21:31:35 i havent got one Jun 27 21:31:36 * GeneralAntilles chuckles sophomorically at "fag". Jun 27 21:31:49 ok Jun 27 21:32:14 GeneralAntilles, childish Jun 27 21:32:19 i just ran out of patience for now with c, and i am either gonna write a preprocessor or try c++ Jun 27 21:32:23 GeneralAntilles: Then I guess you didn't see http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2698507.stm Jun 27 21:32:34 lcuk == http://home.comcast.net/~corkymcg/crime/nilsen.html Jun 27 21:34:07 wtf gen? Jun 27 21:34:15 Ha Jun 27 21:34:53 I blame crashanddie for putting the picture of you getting a fags for code in my head Jun 27 21:35:10 lcuk, probably preprocessor Jun 27 21:35:15 chopping them up and flushing them down the toilet is the obvious next step. :P Jun 27 21:36:21 blame me for whatever you want, I will admit nothing Jun 27 21:37:03 blame him for turning apple logo black! Jun 27 21:37:24 * GeneralAntilles misses Happy Mac Jun 27 21:41:24 could anyone give me their line for the maemo extras and extras-devel repos (in /etc/apt/sources.list) ? Jun 27 21:41:53 what is browserd anyway? it took over memory and cpu Jun 27 21:42:26 timeless's changelog will likely cover it, but, basically, it manages browser windows. Jun 27 21:42:31 Reduces the crash impact. Jun 27 21:43:20 deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ diablo free non-free Jun 27 21:43:20 deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ diablo free non-free Jun 27 21:43:26 is it ok to still have chinook repos ? Jun 27 21:43:32 cheers Jun 27 21:43:34 Yes Jun 27 21:43:46 Just dupe those two lines and change to chinook. Jun 27 21:44:49 k Jun 27 21:46:07 \o/ 22:44:07 Welcome to liqgraffiti. Jun 27 21:46:07 22:44:07 You passed 1 arguments Jun 27 21:47:29 lcuk : http://www.learncpp.com/ great refresher that I'm using at the moment Jun 27 21:47:53 I just wrote several hundred lines of C++/gtkmm and used about 3 typecasts Jun 27 21:47:54 *THREE* Jun 27 21:48:05 not THREE PER LINE!!!! Jun 27 21:48:13 * lbt sighs Jun 27 21:48:19 :D Jun 27 21:48:21 * lbt feels better... Jun 27 21:48:45 that is wrong Jun 27 21:49:00 and libsig++ mmm Jun 27 21:49:21 has to be 3 per line ;) Jun 27 21:49:33 and make em dynamic Jun 27 21:49:57 my gui objects register with my data objects which send signals when they change... Jun 27 21:50:11 just like Qt... Jun 27 21:50:38 for extra guru power have you included a script interface ;) Jun 27 21:50:45 * lbt enjoys a post-coital moment.... Jun 27 21:50:57 * RST38h cant hear about c++ objects any more today. Sleep! Jun 27 21:50:59 it will have dbus Jun 27 21:51:06 and xml Jun 27 21:51:18 and a proper package Jun 27 21:51:23 kill kill xml Jun 27 21:51:35 current build incantation is : dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -b Jun 27 21:51:35 lbt, package is half the reason im building this Jun 27 21:51:41 inside scratchbox :) Jun 27 21:52:04 I always love how crystal clear compiler output is... Jun 27 21:52:04 display.cpp:85: error: request for member `setAmp' in `(((std::map, std::allocator > >*)((Display*)this)) + 56u)->std::map<_Key, _Tp, _Compare, _Alloc>::operator[] [with _Key = int, _Tp = Band*, _Compare = std::less, _Alloc = std::allocator >](((const int&)((const int*)(&i))))', which is of non-class type `Band*' Jun 27 21:52:43 you missed a [ Jun 27 21:52:55 shouldn't have used stl. Jun 27 21:53:00 oh, wait, that's not a perl script.. Jun 27 21:53:03 my mistake Jun 27 21:53:04 suffer now. Jun 27 21:53:23 Jun 27 21:54:02 well in fact, my only mistake was "." instead of "->" :D Jun 27 21:55:39 * lbt wanders off to stroke his friendly classes until they emit something... Jun 27 22:01:14 https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-meeting/2#SSU Jun 27 22:01:23 er, -#SSU Jun 27 22:02:01 Bugzilla's broken. . . . Jun 27 22:02:25 erhm Jun 27 22:02:33 GeneralAntilles, mind to help me out for a bit ? Jun 27 22:03:16 I just tried to do a apt-get install libcommoncpp2-1.6-0, and I got yelled at about flash-and-reboot Jun 27 22:03:29 apt-get -f install Jun 27 22:03:30 and initfs-flasher, kernel-diablo-flasher Jun 27 22:03:37 that's not dangerous ? Jun 27 22:03:44 One sec Jun 27 22:03:48 hi all, anybody got issues with diablo on nokia n800? (i.e. the firmware file is named RX34... yet in app manager it lists a bunch of uninstallable RX44 packages) Jun 27 22:04:03 Turn off red-pill. Jun 27 22:04:09 k Jun 27 22:04:15 crashanddie, http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2008-June/021586.html Jun 27 22:04:22 It's safe. Jun 27 22:05:19 cheers Jun 27 22:06:07 GeneralAntilles, you gonna be at the MaemoCon ? Jun 27 22:06:24 Unlikely Jun 27 22:06:36 Partially due to scheduling and partially due to costs. Jun 27 22:06:40 hmm Jun 27 22:06:41 k Jun 27 22:06:58 :) stars works with a c++ base Jun 27 22:07:04 * lcuk will start building classes now Jun 27 22:07:18 I could probably talk Nokia into paying my way there Jun 27 22:07:22 but there's still the issue of time. Jun 27 22:11:11 I guess bugzilla was being upgraded. Jun 27 22:12:13 GeneralAntilles, that's too bad Jun 27 22:12:16 lcuk: I guess you've seen the maemopad source? Jun 27 22:12:21 GeneralAntilles, would be awesome to have you there Jun 27 22:12:58 no, i know its there but never been interested. different priorities Jun 27 22:13:00 Yeah, it'd be a fun trip. Jun 27 22:13:15 GeneralAntilles, i agree. you have done a lot here Jun 27 22:13:44 lol . . . https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3330 Jun 27 22:14:08 lcuk: as a template for deb packaging and automake... not coding Jun 27 22:15:18 Nice to see people still believe in Santa Jun 27 22:15:30 i cant use automake yet :( Jun 27 22:15:55 https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo-meeting/2#Time Can I talk somebody into helping out with the agenda yet? Jun 27 22:24:06 ok wth, I can't find the ccpp2 website anymore ? Jun 27 22:24:59 :( autoconf: Depends: debianutils (>= 1.8) Jun 27 23:06:05 crashanddie, :) i'd forgotten how this was. i only ever did stdio classes, now i have the graphics thoughts in my head its great Jun 27 23:06:20 lcuk, :D Jun 27 23:06:42 lcuk, I might finish up a preview version of the viz tonight Jun 27 23:06:47 wicked! Jun 27 23:39:08 hi Jun 27 23:39:19 late to the party as always, there's a new update for n810s? Jun 27 23:40:31 yep, diablo got released the other day Jun 27 23:40:35 no Jun 27 23:40:37 wai! Jun 27 23:40:40 where do i upgrade?! Jun 27 23:40:47 Mousey, same place as always. Jun 27 23:40:55 there's a place?! Jun 27 23:40:59 god i'm such a n00b Jun 27 23:41:13 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php Jun 27 23:41:20 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php Jun 27 23:41:20 donk Jun 27 23:41:23 donk! Jun 27 23:41:23 hey Jun 27 23:41:30 will reflashing erase my tablet? Jun 27 23:41:43 Yes Jun 27 23:41:48 Use Backkup/Restore to create a backup. Jun 27 23:41:50 AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Jun 27 23:41:54 ok ok Jun 27 23:41:57 * Mousey does that Jun 27 23:41:58 All custom files on the main drive Jun 27 23:42:09 Secondary flash should remain untouched Jun 27 23:42:13 last one tho, i hear Jun 27 23:42:13 Yet backup advised. Jun 27 23:43:11 * Mousey backs up with vim Jun 27 23:43:46 will i have to re apt-get all my little applings? Jun 27 23:44:10 Yes, but the restore process automates it mostly. Jun 27 23:44:16 k Jun 27 23:44:33 will modest EVER do client side filtering? Jun 27 23:48:58 and finally, i have to do this over USB huh? Jun 27 23:50:18 That's how flashing works Jun 27 23:50:31 I'M NOT AFRAID!! Jun 27 23:50:35 good Jun 27 23:50:42 you shouldn't be afraid of usb Jun 27 23:50:53 i'm more afraid of puppies Jun 27 23:51:00 that would be kinda sad Jun 27 23:51:09 "NO, JACK, DON'T LEAVE ME ALONE" Jun 27 23:51:14 "what the ? Why ?" Jun 27 23:51:22 "THE COMPUTER ! IT..." Jun 27 23:51:25 "it what ?" Jun 27 23:51:30 "IT HAS A USB PORT !!!" Jun 27 23:51:40 "eh ?" Jun 27 23:52:17 I'll just shut up now, sorry for that Jun 27 23:52:31 yah man.. you shouldn't make fun of peoples afflictions Jun 27 23:52:37 it's not polite Jun 27 23:53:01 Yeah, sorry... bu Jun 27 23:53:02 but** Jun 27 23:53:05 I'm not polite Jun 27 23:53:13 I'm Sebastiaan :D Jun 27 23:53:29 * Mousey is Mousey Jun 27 23:58:05 Is there a pidgin plugin to blink the LED notifer on new messages like the built-in chat client does? Jun 27 23:58:15 * Mousey downloads goodies, unpacks gear, prepares for USBattle! Jun 27 23:58:23 m_mouser: yes Jun 27 23:58:45 it's disguised as a plugin for the N800, but works fine on the n810 Jun 27 23:58:58 urgh... CDMA 1x is so slow... :-/ Jun 28 00:00:06 Poor summatusmentis Jun 28 00:00:16 m_mouser, yeah Jun 28 00:00:24 pidgin notification or led plugin or something Jun 28 00:00:25 It's around Jun 28 00:00:29 google should turn it up. Jun 28 00:00:40 Er, yeah, Mousey answered. . . . Jun 28 00:01:38 but! It's working,and it might be USB that's tghe bottleneck Jun 28 00:01:44 the* Jun 28 00:01:53 WTF?! Jun 28 00:02:02 s/USB/bluetooth/ Jun 28 00:02:45 Thanks mousey/general! Jun 28 00:04:22 Bluetooth should cap out around 50KB/sec with DUN Jun 28 00:04:27 120KB/sec with PAN Jun 28 00:04:43 ONE DAY I'LL FIGURE PAN OUT! Jun 28 00:04:53 PAN shows up to your carrier right? Jun 28 00:04:54 also, i get 70ish kps with EVDO Jun 28 00:05:19 Suitable USB device not found, waiting Jun 28 00:05:53 summatusmentis, shouldn't but I'm not sure. Jun 28 00:06:12 Mousey, turn it off, plug it into USB, hold the Home/Swap key, turn it on. Jun 28 00:06:31 ooooooooh Jun 28 00:06:35 * Mousey is a dullard Jun 28 00:06:37 hmm... weel, I'm on DUN... oh... phone battery dying... bbl Jun 28 00:06:47 s/weel/well/ Jun 28 00:06:47 summatusmentis meant: hmm... well, I'm on DUN... oh... phone battery dying... bbl Jun 28 00:08:05 hmm, what's the swap key? Jun 28 00:08:36 shares the rocker with the esc key, rt? Jun 28 00:08:59 Right Jun 28 00:09:48 i apparently have to turn off the device lock thing too eh Jun 28 00:11:32 god. i am 10 doing this wrong Jun 28 00:13:20 * Mousey RTFM's, FTW Jun 28 00:15:31 Finishing flashing... done Jun 28 00:15:37 I CAN HAS UPGRADEING! Jun 28 00:15:41 ^_^ Jun 28 00:15:51 * Mousey proceeds back to lurkland Jun 28 00:20:10 Just remember to dupe the maemo Extras entry and change the distribution to chinook Jun 28 00:21:44 oooh, good one. i have eleventy billion sources, i'll be sure to add that one =) Jun 28 00:23:13 Personally, I would delete most of them. Jun 28 00:23:21 Only pick the repositories that actually have things you need. Jun 28 00:23:35 you think that's bad, you should see my debian sources list Jun 28 00:24:04 SEE FOR YOURSELF! http://ross154.net/~mprov/MASTER.sources.list Jun 28 00:26:22 well the application list restor no worky Jun 28 00:26:54 * Mousey restores from backup again Jun 28 00:26:55 wee! Jun 28 00:27:12 Mousey, my repo list is maybe what, 8 lines long ? Jun 28 00:27:20 where can i find a 4.1 changelog? also, did they fix the GPS aquisition time yet? Jun 28 00:27:42 Changelog . . . ha Jun 28 00:28:04 Mousey, from what I gathered, it's a firmware problem Jun 28 00:28:12 crashanddie: everybody suffers from lackofactuallywantingbazillionsofapplicationsosis but ME Jun 28 00:28:22 agps-ui is in Extras Jun 28 00:28:34 https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?bug_file_loc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_id=&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED&bugidtype=include&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&email1=&email2=&emailassigned_to1=1&emailassigned_to2=1&emailcc2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailtype1=substring&emailtype2=substring&field-1-0-0=target_milestone&field-1-1-0=bug_status&field0-0-0=noop&keywords Jun 28 00:28:47 That's a decent list of bugs fixed in Diablo. Jun 28 00:29:03 woah. ty Jun 28 00:29:30 Hi all. I'm playing with an N810 with the 2008SE 2.2007.51-3 bios in it and I noticed an option in the installable files that allows for USB networking. I installed it and can see an option of "USB" in the networking options, but I can't get it to connect to anything. Any ideas? Jun 28 00:29:43 XP? Jun 28 00:30:02 Also, I tried this: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/usbnetworking/ and it didn't work. At least not on the N810. It keeps telling me "file not found" when I try to start or stop it. Jun 28 00:31:46 I have seen somewhere that Diablo had a new sleep scheme, but I'm not finding that page again. Is there really something differente? Jun 28 00:32:02 For the CPU, you mean? Jun 28 00:32:06 yes Jun 28 00:32:11 OS2008 had a new scheme Jun 28 00:32:17 Don't think there were any big changes for Diablo, though. Jun 28 00:32:21 :( Jun 28 00:32:33 I'd really like a more palm-like sleep Jun 28 00:33:01 You can get 14 days on idle. Jun 28 00:33:19 There's a lot more stuff in our devices than in a Palm, though. Jun 28 00:33:32 just today I picked my N800 up to read a book while I was waiting but it was powered off because of low battery Jun 28 00:33:40 GeneralAntilles, indeed Jun 28 00:33:55 Charge it overnight Jun 28 00:34:06 but I could leave my palm off for several days when not in use Jun 28 00:34:53 I like PDAs to read books too, but I was very busy in the last days Jun 28 00:34:59 You should be able to do that with your N800, too. Jun 28 00:35:04 Did your Palm have WiFi active? Did your tablet? Jun 28 00:35:04 Someone did do a software suspend script. Jun 28 00:35:09 If it's not idling for several days disconnected and idle, then something's wrong. Jun 28 00:35:29 GeneralAntilles: I know one big issue in Diablo. It made me flash back to an older version because it became too much of a problem. When you connect to a wireless point with the N810, your interface locks up until it disconnects. You can still here the "click click" when you touch the screen, but nothing happens. It's a bug that seems to occur half the time, so I can't nail it down to any one thing. Jun 28 00:35:40 But you can only suspend the device for a little over a minute at a time, because of the watchdog timer. Jun 28 00:35:53 megosdog, not heard of anybody else experiencing that. Jun 28 00:36:02 You can always turn off the watchdog Jun 28 00:36:22 GeneralAntilles: Yeah, it was a pesky little bug and darned if I could figure out what caused it. Jun 28 00:36:23 No, the other one. Jun 28 00:36:28 There's one you can't turn off. Jun 28 00:36:44 It's a hardware dead-man's switch. Jun 28 00:36:49 You have to frob it every 64 seconds. Jun 28 00:37:34 Anywho, back to my usb issue. Anyone know how to use the usb networking package so I can use my usb connection to get online? I don't have a reliable WAP around here and it's annoying. Jun 28 00:37:44 Hence the need for the WAP. Jun 28 00:37:48 Er, usb networking. Jun 28 00:37:55 (the script just suspended for 60 seconds at a time, resumed, frobbed the watchdog, and suspended again) Jun 28 00:38:12 derf, that seems awful Jun 28 00:38:25 it may even use more power than idling Jun 28 00:38:56 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2007-March/008915.html Jun 28 00:39:43 hey, I almost got a friend of mine to think that the N800 is a very good gadget, but the spell was broken when he found out the N800 isn't a cellphone Jun 28 00:39:53 and thank god for that Jun 28 00:40:08 Yeah, I hate cell phones. Jun 28 00:40:18 megosdog: i noticed it takes me about 5 minutes to get a dhcp lease from wifi Jun 28 00:41:07 I have never owned a cellphone. Jun 28 00:42:42 well, data plans are too expensive for me Jun 28 00:43:12 and I bought my N800 because of screen real-estate and resolution to read books Jun 28 00:43:18 and because it runs python, of course Jun 28 00:44:54 NullM0dem: I get one right away. Did on the Diablo bios too, but I figure something else was at fault for the lockups. Of course if it was a hard lock, that'd be one thing. But this was a semi-soft lock. Jun 28 00:45:40 It's not a "bios" Jun 28 00:45:50 derf, about the last lines of that page, suspend would be an option if one considers that if a user wants to suspend, then the system should be automatically set to offline mode, so no radios would be on Jun 28 00:46:04 Well, true. But because it's "flashed" onto the device, that's kinda how I think about it. lol. Jun 28 00:46:45 Xamusk: Sure, but that's not the problem... Jun 28 00:47:02 Ok, anywho. I really need to get this usb networking working on my N810 so I'm not stuck in bad wifi hell all the time. Jun 28 00:47:09 Any ideas how to make this work? Jun 28 00:47:11 /whois GeneralAntilles Jun 28 00:47:18 derf, yes, I noticed, but it's a point that should be considered in the next hardware revision Jun 28 00:47:22 Giving the user the ability to disable the retu watchdog means it can be disabled when the device _isn't_ suspended, when the radio is on. Jun 28 00:47:22 Grr. Jun 28 00:47:25 Ha Jun 28 00:47:28 I see you! :P Jun 28 00:47:45 I can't see you though. Jun 28 00:47:53 * GeneralAntilles is cloaked. Jun 28 00:47:58 Ah. Jun 28 00:47:58 Yes, it would be nice to be able to disable it in hardware automatically when it's suspended, but I don't know if that's easy, or even possible. Jun 28 00:48:48 derf, not if the system itself could check for radio operation when asked for suspension Jun 28 00:49:37 I'm seeing if the RTCOMM-IRC crash bug is fixed...and finding new bugs. Jun 28 00:50:39 Anyway, I don't think it'd be a difficult hack to just frob it from the kernel without resuming the whole OS, but I'm not that bored. Jun 28 00:56:33 derf, as for me, if I had the expertise I'd downclock the whole system to spare battery for reading :) Jun 28 00:59:12 That's a simple matter of the appropriate echos in the sys filesystem. Jun 28 00:59:17 But it's also a really bad idea. Jun 28 00:59:47 Well, on an ARM it's probably only a moderately bad idea. Jun 28 01:00:25 Xamusk, how many days idle are you getting? Jun 28 01:00:34 You should be getting around 2 connect and around 8 disconnected. Jun 28 01:00:40 If you're not, then something else is wrong. Jun 28 01:02:42 GeneralAntilles, it says 9 days inactive, in offline mode, after a full charge, but I don't trust that battery app Jun 28 01:03:27 It's not relevant Jun 28 01:03:31 How many days are you ACTUALLY getting? Jun 28 01:04:18 I have not made any tests to see real performance, because usually I use it one way or another, so it affects battery life Jun 28 02:05:24 Is it easily possible to install apps to a memory card (internal/external) on the 810? I'm running out of memory. :) Jun 28 02:06:35 Did you delete the 40MB of manuals in Documents? Jun 28 02:06:44 Installation applications to memory card is a bad route Jun 28 02:06:47 better to just boot from SD Jun 28 02:07:26 That's what I thought. Probably would take a migration of /usr and partitioning, etc. Jun 28 02:08:34 Any disadvantage to booting from SD? Jun 28 02:09:22 No Jun 28 02:09:34 Unless you've got stupid slow SD cards Jun 28 02:13:26 Well, I've got whatever the 810's internal card's speed is and a class 4 removable miniSD. I don't know if that's considered "slow" relative to the device. Is it? Jun 28 02:14:27 I'd put it on the internal card Jun 28 02:14:29 Which will be fine. Jun 28 02:16:44 All right, thanks. Would this mess up my upgrade to Diablo? Jun 28 02:17:25 penguinbait has some nice scripts available Jun 28 02:17:36 It'll just tar over your current Diablo install to the card Jun 28 02:18:30 GeneralAntilles: competely OT, d'you have suggestions on killing a seemingly unkillable pppd process in OS X? Jun 28 02:19:00 sudo kill -9 ? Jun 28 02:19:34 Does it die when you kill it and then come back? Jun 28 02:19:37 Or will it just not die? Jun 28 02:19:45 Doesn't seem to die Jun 28 02:19:45 i.e. is it a launchd thing? Jun 28 02:20:08 might be a launchd thing, I'm not sure how pppd works Jun 28 02:20:28 Is this after tethering to your phone? Jun 28 02:22:32 after attempting to Jun 28 02:22:37 it never worked Jun 28 02:22:48 :((( Jun 28 02:22:59 Tether in OS X is ALMOST good enough Jun 28 02:23:12 Maemo has the most fantastic tethering setup of any platform I've ever tried. Jun 28 02:23:27 You still have to look up way too much shit and guess at stuff with OS X. :\ Jun 28 02:24:12 Maemo's worked well Jun 28 02:24:24 OS X should work, except for this stupid thing Jun 28 02:24:31 I suppose if it comes down to it, i can just reboot Jun 28 02:24:41 Not a bad plan. ;) Jun 28 02:24:53 One way to tell if it's launchd is to kill it Jun 28 02:25:02 then kill it a second time immediately after Jun 28 02:25:16 launchd takes 10 seconds after a relaunch to launch again Jun 28 02:26:12 jts$ sudo kill -9 3370; sudo kill -9 3370 didn't do anything Jun 28 02:26:42 Dunno Jun 28 02:26:43 Restart away! Jun 28 02:27:24 but... I'm doing stuff! Jun 28 02:27:35 :) I'll do it in a while, thanks for trying Jun 28 02:27:58 Pfft. :P Jun 28 02:34:24 alright, bbiab Jun 28 02:43:18 well, rebooting fixed it :-P Jun 28 02:43:24 lol Jun 28 02:43:35 Reboot, the forgotten troubleshooting step Jun 28 02:51:02 rebooting is the first step in fixing windows problems Jun 28 02:58:14 uh oh... I used 3MB of cell data today >_> Jun 28 02:58:18 that's not a good habit Jun 28 02:59:37 Whoops! Jun 28 02:59:52 summatusmentis, I disovered that loading engadget is like 1MB right there **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 28 02:59:57 2008