**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 03 02:59:57 2008 Jul 03 03:01:10 gnite maemo Jul 03 03:02:30 'night lcuk Jul 03 03:40:10 Hello all. I'm messing with my n810 and would like to know if there is a "hook"bto toggle the light from the cli, like you can with a thinkpad. Jul 03 03:41:18 For my thinkpad I would use /proc/acpi/ibm/light Jul 03 05:11:43 Hi, on my system (ubuntu gusty) when i added vm.mmap_min_addr=4096, to install CHINOOK, it hanged and now refusing to boot Jul 03 05:11:57 how to resolve this? Jul 03 05:12:25 Can you use single user/recovery mode? It's on the grub menu. Jul 03 05:14:58 qwerty12, i tried that but it is also not throwing me on prompt Jul 03 05:15:31 Boot up the ubuntu install cd and mount the drive and edit the sysctl.conf and umount and reboot again. Jul 03 05:21:43 qwerty: moo Jul 03 05:21:55 baa, hi :) Jul 03 05:23:18 qwerty12, thanks Jul 03 05:29:18 is it normal that canola starts for longer than 1 minute on Diablo? Jul 03 05:29:34 Yes, python is throwing a hissy fit about modules it cannot find. Jul 03 05:30:48 urgh :( any way to fix it? Jul 03 05:31:08 Use the python from chinook extras :/ Jul 03 05:31:39 If you use canola -vvv, you may be able to spot the modules and extract them manually instead. Jul 03 05:33:53 * RST38h is using python from chinook extras afaik Jul 03 05:34:21 Do I run canola -vvv once, from command line? Jul 03 05:35:01 Yeah, you may want to pipe the output to a file to see the problem. Also pythonlauncher helps with canola quite a bit. Jul 03 05:36:15 1215063515.1733 DEBUG manager:114:get_classes() looking for classes with filter 'Model/Multitask' Jul 03 05:36:40 Are these lines the sign of a problem? Jul 03 05:37:27 It actually looks to be legitimate Canola attempts to look for plugins Jul 03 05:37:55 Hmm,probably sounds like it. It won't be modules if you are using chinook python. Jul 03 05:38:13 Lemme try ptyhonlauncher then Jul 03 05:42:40 qwerty12, i booted from live cd, mounted filesystem,changed file and rebooted but still system is not booting. Jul 03 05:43:15 Are you sure that you haven't made any other change? Did you put vdso=0 in the sysctl as well? Jul 03 05:45:02 qwerty12, yes and i did nothing aprt from that Jul 03 05:45:33 :%s/aprt/apart Jul 03 05:45:39 The vdso is the thing that is probably causing your problem. Another person here had a problem with vdso=0 in sysctl. Jul 03 05:46:25 Hey-who-the-hell-changed-personal-launcher-icon?!? =) Jul 03 05:58:42 O_O Jul 03 05:59:52 you know Jul 03 06:00:04 I haven't been getting update warnings Jul 03 06:01:35 Ugh Jul 03 06:01:38 that new icon is gross Jul 03 06:02:10 Well, not totally gross Jul 03 06:02:24 The single thing the new one has over the old one is the dropshadow Jul 03 06:05:37 I definitely want the old icon back though Jul 03 06:05:50 Extract it from the old deb on garage. Jul 03 06:05:57 heh Jul 03 06:06:06 can we have it as an option in the current deb? =) Jul 03 06:06:50 You could repack the deb and update the md5sum but I've got homework to do >.> Jul 03 06:07:04 i don't think it's in app-mgr Jul 03 06:07:11 it should be in some theme thing Jul 03 06:07:31 It's a custom icon provided by the app :) Jul 03 06:07:42 really? Jul 03 06:07:44 Actually, I don't know with the latest version Jul 03 06:07:50 http://mxr.maemo.org/garage/source/hildon-app-mgr/ Jul 03 06:07:53 i couldn't find it Jul 03 06:08:19 We were talking about the personal launcher :) Jul 03 06:08:38 qwerty12, i removed vm.vsdo_enabled from /etc/sysctl.conf also, and system is booting smmothly now thanks Jul 03 06:08:51 sorry, all i saw was "update warnings" i assumed you meant the app update icon :) Jul 03 06:09:06 :) Jul 03 06:09:57 jitu3485, You can add vdso=0 to grub. Seems to work better for some people (just don't add it onto the default boot option, make a new boot entry first) Jul 03 06:10:30 Looks like memory usage is much higher in Maemo Jul 03 06:10:50 Modest and Browserd eat up a lot of memory, whatever timeless says Jul 03 06:11:20 I disabled the modest daemon as I never use it and I can agree with you for browserd Jul 03 06:14:58 qwerty: The problem is that we have to make timeless agree... Jul 03 06:15:15 * qwerty12 gets the gun ready, agreed yet? :P Jul 03 06:17:41 yyeeaaaaa! Jul 03 06:23:01 is there an about option on maemo? i could have sworn i saw it Jul 03 06:24:09 morning Jul 03 06:24:35 guys: is there any text editor with hildon interface? Jul 03 06:25:09 simple gedit like even Jul 03 06:25:32 leafpad was hildonised Jul 03 06:28:53 ' Jul 03 06:38:19 qwerty12: but not in extras? Jul 03 06:38:30 no Jul 03 06:38:57 RST38h, I see what you mean about the icon :/ Jul 03 06:40:50 RST38h: browserd shouldn't really cost significantly more than browser did in chinook Jul 03 06:43:04 timelyx, mind pausing time for me? Jul 03 06:43:19 sorry, not yet implemented Jul 03 06:43:26 :( Jul 03 06:44:53 Mirbubgm akk Jul 03 06:44:59 Morning, all even Jul 03 06:45:35 Jaffa, aas Mirbubgm? !!!! dsfj jkaskads Jul 03 06:45:59 Morning :) Jul 03 06:54:50 http://www.woot.com/Blog/Archive.aspx?StartDate=3/2/2008 Jul 03 07:44:48 good morning Jul 03 07:45:14 if i boot from mmc i cant use the usb client mode without problem? Jul 03 07:46:01 not for usb-storage mode Jul 03 07:46:33 okay, thats what i mean Jul 03 08:37:52 andre__: so,... could we figure out a plan for garage in bugs.maemo? Jul 03 08:38:04 esp, i'd love to move browser-extras into bugs.maemo Jul 03 08:38:15 then a certain bug could just be moved :) Jul 03 08:41:39 so who's coming to guadec this year? Jul 03 08:44:28 i think it's basically figuring out a timeline for upgrading bugzilla to current Jul 03 08:51:27 something like mount -o /mnt/initfs/ rw so remount initfs rw? Jul 03 08:56:57 good morning Jul 03 08:57:11 morning Jul 03 08:58:20 <__t> good moin Jul 03 09:07:28 hi __t Jul 03 09:07:45 <__t> hi florian Jul 03 09:12:59 <__t> florian: do you know about maemo developers arround berlin? Jul 03 09:14:01 __t: rschuster (not here right now) does is located there iirc Jul 03 09:14:54 __t: define "around", since maemo is worldwide thingy Siegen might count as well ;) Jul 03 09:15:45 <__t> florian: arround as in "up for a beer in the evening" ;-) so it depends on you Jul 03 09:17:16 __t: heh, well might be a little bit far for a beer, but a good idea... I happen to be there sometimes. Jul 03 09:18:10 <__t> I guess in september you will come? Jul 03 09:20:09 <__t> florian: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 Jul 03 09:20:55 __t: quite likely, yes :) Jul 03 09:39:34 hm, how actively is telepathy being worked on? Jul 03 09:39:43 packages for maemo are at least half a year old Jul 03 10:07:38 * lcuk will be parking liqbase in the garage tonight. *gulp* Jul 03 10:08:04 lcuk: Great! Jul 03 10:08:34 I know that is a big step for you, thanks for doing that! Jul 03 10:10:42 its not there yet (i only decided on the drive in this morning). if some devs could post a few words in the iTT thread about their first time it might make me feel a bit better Jul 03 10:14:26 * lcuk gets back to work Jul 03 10:14:28 * aquatix is watching lcuk's youtube movie Jul 03 10:14:31 looks great Jul 03 10:14:54 what exactly is it? Jul 03 10:14:59 a graphics lib? Jul 03 10:15:44 how cool, those drawings Jul 03 10:16:00 dang, should've had an n810 with this app years ago Jul 03 10:16:52 lcuk, about their first time ? Jul 03 10:17:03 *g* Jul 03 10:24:50 what the hell is the midgard project ? Jul 03 10:27:01 cms Jul 03 10:28:03 i like how lcuk's app handles the large graphics file and doesn't have problems scrolling through it Jul 03 10:30:05 yeah Jul 03 10:30:09 it's damn smooth Jul 03 10:30:21 * aquatix eagerly awaits .deb Jul 03 10:34:09 didn't he post the binary a while back? Jul 03 10:34:25 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21259 Jul 03 10:34:52 oh 'no deb yet' Jul 03 10:36:12 How could I use bluetooth to access N800's camera remotely Jul 03 10:36:43 Lo there :) Jul 03 10:37:58 Does anybody knows, is there an ICQ fix for tablets? pidgin have updatet it's lib so on Desktop it works fine but I haven't heard about tablet version :( Jul 03 10:38:55 hi hw can i use libsofia-tools ? can i use it to test sofsip application ? Jul 03 10:40:07 wazd: doesn't it work on your tablet anymore? Jul 03 10:40:27 aquatix: they started blocking non-icq clients Jul 03 10:40:33 i know Jul 03 10:40:35 or changed something in the proto Jul 03 10:40:41 but some older versions of libpurple still work Jul 03 10:41:13 trickie: the latest libpurple sends the newest client version strings and such Jul 03 10:41:49 re Jul 03 10:42:12 yeah i don't use it on the tablet... just saw people have been having issues Jul 03 10:42:20 hrw: hi Jul 03 10:42:44 aquatix: ICQ released some weird opdate 2 days ago, that bricked all side-clients (all except ICQ6 itself) Jul 03 10:43:23 wazd: jups, my pidgin doesn't work anymore indeed [don't have 2.4.3 yet], but bitlbee still works :) Jul 03 10:43:27 Most have released urgent updates Jul 03 10:43:35 I banned ICQ client from my last workplace. Jul 03 10:43:45 and i read remarks about libpurple 2.1.2 or something still logging in Jul 03 10:44:20 hence my question, as telepathy haze uses an older libpurple on maemo yet Jul 03 10:44:21 Well, I would like to not use ICQ but my contacts are not sharing this point with me :) Jul 03 10:44:35 most of my contacts are msn... Jul 03 10:44:37 even more evil Jul 03 10:45:00 I think Russia is the only country that still uses ICQ :) Jul 03 10:46:24 hi hw can i use libsofia-tools ? can i use it to test sofsip application ? Jul 03 11:04:21 * GeneralAntilles is listening to the tllts from this morning. Jul 03 11:07:58 the Quim interview? Jul 03 11:08:02 Yeah Jul 03 11:08:22 Sound quality is a bit bad, but it is doable. Jul 03 11:08:54 wazd: will omweather get option 'show city from gps as default'? Jul 03 11:09:09 GeneralAntilles, I might have found something amazing Jul 03 11:09:21 crashanddie, I was poking you to find out whether this was your radio show. :P Jul 03 11:09:34 ah, no lol Jul 03 11:10:16 GeneralAntilles, There seems to be a promotional offer from RyanAir. I'm on their website right now, flying from Stansted to Berlin, september 18 to 20, £20 (tax included, the flights are free, only tax) Jul 03 11:10:32 crashanddie: nice price Jul 03 11:10:45 * hrw has to pay for bus Szczecin<>Berlin Jul 03 11:11:34 My Xephyr is running and form scratchbox I did export display and I start dbus daemon but in Xephyr it wont display anythig why ? Jul 03 11:11:53 atul, my balls ain't made of crystal, sorry Jul 03 11:12:16 atul, mind posting some error messages, or the output of af-sb-init.sh start Jul 03 11:12:27 "/usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 1: export: `/usr/bin/dbus-daemon:': not a valid identifie" Jul 03 11:12:34 this Error message I got Jul 03 11:13:34 atul, dbus-daemon --system Jul 03 11:14:21 crashanddie: so what to do ? to fix this problem ? Any Idea ? this is reported but in maemo Jul 03 11:14:28 atul, dbus-daemon --system Jul 03 11:17:15 What's the quickest way of doing an array comparison in C? Jul 03 11:17:33 memcmp Jul 03 11:17:48 only works if it's the same type though Jul 03 11:17:57 ah yes, it is. Good stuff Jul 03 11:17:58 provided your array doesnt have holes Jul 03 11:18:08 * hrw sent first not polite help mail to maemo-devs.. Jul 03 11:18:09 nah, will be same size & type Jul 03 11:18:35 * lardman awaits hrw's impolite help mail with baited breath :) Jul 03 11:18:46 if array elements are 3 bytes. it wont work Jul 03 11:18:54 lardman: it is not so hard one Jul 03 11:19:16 zap: how do you mean? Jul 03 11:19:40 lardman: padding to 4bytes Jul 03 11:19:43 how do i apply for tickets - thers no mail address or site on the sponsorship thingy Jul 03 11:20:04 lcuk: We are testing it now, will be available today.. Jul 03 11:20:11 Ah ok, not an issue, the data will be chars Jul 03 11:20:21 :) thx x-fade Jul 03 11:20:38 * lcuk is still shitting bricks Jul 03 11:20:39 for chars memcmp is always the best Jul 03 11:20:46 lcuk: why? Jul 03 11:21:00 because you're putting a first version of something awesome online? ;) Jul 03 11:21:37 well if you had seen me last time i stood up in front of people you would know, but what i learnt *after* was why im trying again Jul 03 11:21:44 zap: cheers (am converting MATLAB code to C) Jul 03 11:22:02 aquatix, its everything :) ty for compliment Jul 03 11:23:25 lardman: maybe start with converting matlab to octave ;) Jul 03 11:23:56 :) Jul 03 11:23:58 florian: yeah, that's not enough of a challenge though :) Jul 03 11:24:31 lcuk: seriously looking forward to playing with it Jul 03 11:24:53 lcuk: i always get sahara-mouthed when in front of people too ;) Jul 03 11:26:11 hrw: Must be quite some lag on the list, I've still not seen your email Jul 03 11:26:23 or lag on my email server of course Jul 03 11:26:33 lardman: so how is the dsp stuff for a2dp coming? =) Jul 03 11:26:56 wiza: oh yeah, I've just finished the tweaks, need to compile and see if it runs Jul 03 11:27:49 wiza: It was running, but too slowly, so I've changed the central (called lots of times) fn. to use DSP instriniscs and Q15 arithmetic Jul 03 11:28:18 lardman: nevermind Jul 03 11:29:00 lardman: I recall that it was slow Jul 03 11:29:40 wiza: I'll compile it at lunch time and push the changes, then I imagine there'll be some fixing to do before it actually works Jul 03 11:31:19 no hurry :D Jul 03 11:32:22 wiza: I'd like to get it finished and get on with other things :) Jul 03 11:33:14 :p Jul 03 11:35:15 yawn Jul 03 11:35:24 so much cool software getting released these days :) Jul 03 11:35:55 johnx: Like Modest? Jul 03 11:36:17 like lardman's sbc-on-dsp and lcuk's liqbase Jul 03 11:36:20 anybody knows whether telepathy is frequently updated? the latest maemo packages are over 6 months old Jul 03 11:36:39 * aquatix has a buglet in modest btw Jul 03 11:36:42 johnx: They finally released? =)!!! Jul 03 11:36:51 aquatix: as they are in system image they will probably not be updated Jul 03 11:36:56 every time i open the window, the left list is a bit wider Jul 03 11:37:00 "getting released" as in "in the process" :) Jul 03 11:37:13 ah Jul 03 11:37:14 hrw: hm, i installed collabora haze Jul 03 11:37:16 say guys Jul 03 11:37:20 getting being released then =) Jul 03 11:37:22 yeah, WIP is more like it :) Jul 03 11:37:29 * johnx installed the modest beta for chinook Jul 03 11:37:31 who should I talk to if I want to point out a cheap flight service ? (for Maemo Summit) Jul 03 11:37:33 hasn't screwed up on me yet Jul 03 11:37:50 crash: A PR company? Jul 03 11:38:12 johnx: on diablo? Jul 03 11:38:17 yeah Jul 03 11:38:26 maybe this is what I have to do... Jul 03 11:38:27 might try that too Jul 03 11:38:32 RST38h, eh ? Jul 03 11:38:43 I had to let it overwrite a file as the packaging is done differently Jul 03 11:38:48 Hopefully the beta repo will be updated for Diablo soon. Jul 03 11:38:52 and don't come crying to me if it eats all your mail or something Jul 03 11:39:08 * aquatix uses imaps Jul 03 11:39:16 and used the beta on chinook Jul 03 11:39:17 me too, just sayin :) Jul 03 11:39:22 heh, fair enough Jul 03 11:39:36 also, used a2dp all day today in canola Jul 03 11:39:53 had maybe about 10 skips in 2 hours Jul 03 11:39:58 johnx: have you got it working again for you? Jul 03 11:40:02 yeah Jul 03 11:40:11 what was the problem? Jul 03 11:40:17 it was the same error you posted to maemo-developers Jul 03 11:40:22 I don't know :/ Jul 03 11:40:23 ah ok Jul 03 11:40:29 and it went away after a power cycle on my headphones and tablet Jul 03 11:40:32 reboot :) Jul 03 11:40:37 sometimes my headphones do tend to crash O_o Jul 03 11:40:43 sorry Jul 03 11:40:54 promise, I'll ask 'em to stop Jul 03 11:40:58 you crashed my headphones? Jul 03 11:41:03 GeneralAntilles: the modest one? Jul 03 11:41:12 GeneralAntilles: or for telepathy? Jul 03 11:41:13 Yes Jul 03 11:41:16 er, Modest Jul 03 11:41:19 kk Jul 03 11:41:24 You guys might try the svn for Modest Jul 03 11:41:31 Supposedly a lot has been at least partially fixed. Jul 03 11:41:34 ah, that's a good idea Jul 03 11:41:36 GeneralAntilles: you recommended collabora to me right? Jul 03 11:41:40 GeneralAntilles: cool Jul 03 11:41:47 Yeah, I don't follow Telepathy at all, though. Jul 03 11:41:53 ok Jul 03 11:42:08 was wondering when they where going to update again Jul 03 11:42:26 Robot101, if anybody, would be the one to ask. Jul 03 11:42:28 a diablo modest weekly would be cool indeed :) Jul 03 11:42:35 Robot101: ping ;) Jul 03 11:42:39 * RST38h wonders when Pidgin is going to get upgraded... Jul 03 11:42:42 [sorry for nagging] Jul 03 11:43:15 aquatix: hola Jul 03 11:43:29 Somebody who sucks less than Navi and qwerty12 needs to get the MicroB svn compiled. Jul 03 11:43:32 good workout for scratchbox Jul 03 11:43:32 as soon as I find libosso-abook-dev Jul 03 11:43:35 Robot101: i was wondering whether telepathy receives updates Jul 03 11:43:49 GeneralAntilles: *g* Jul 03 11:43:56 GA: BTW, I did thorough checking of browserd yesterday Jul 03 11:44:02 GeneralAntilles: is that with newer gecko btw? Jul 03 11:44:05 aquatix: yes, there's a lot of development, but do you specifically mean packages for diablo :) Jul 03 11:44:13 Robot101: yups ;) Jul 03 11:44:14 GA: Looks like it is eating6-7MB of RAM when it is resident Jul 03 11:44:31 Robot101: i have it installed, but those are from december last year iirc Jul 03 11:44:34 aquatix: we need to check with nokia and arrange to do the builds for diablo Jul 03 11:44:43 ah, k Jul 03 11:45:01 RST38h, that's about what I was seeing with htop. Jul 03 11:45:08 btw, my jabber accounts stopped working when i installed collabora stuff Jul 03 11:45:12 they won't connect Jul 03 11:45:31 which is weird, as they worked fine, and also with the rtcomm beta i had in chinook Jul 03 11:45:31 GA: Same here (with htop) Jul 03 11:46:09 About the same amount is taken by resident Modest. I am not sure if it is actually doing something or just hanging there though. Jul 03 11:46:20 aquatix: stopped working? that's very weird Jul 03 11:46:32 aquatix: can you get a log? Jul 03 11:46:32 Turned off background mail checks but Modest is still in memory Jul 03 11:46:50 Robot101: lets see... Jul 03 11:47:35 aquatix: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Debugging has some information Jul 03 11:47:41 aquatix: the gabble debug log is the most interesting Jul 03 11:48:14 (you can sign off, run LM_DEBUG=xxx GABBLE_DEBUG=xx GABBLE_PERSIST=... from xterm, then see what gabble says when you try to sign in) Jul 03 11:58:39 Robot101: hm, odd, some of them work, some don't Jul 03 11:58:47 i thought all didn't work Jul 03 11:59:17 gtalk one works, but i have an account on hyves.org that doesn't Jul 03 11:59:27 worked with chinook and rtcomm beta Jul 03 11:59:33 but it doesn't work in pidgin too Jul 03 11:59:43 so it's weird anyway Jul 03 11:59:45 maybe it just broke at the same time? Jul 03 12:00:13 not sure, but it worked in rtcomm beta while it didn't in pidgin at the same time Jul 03 12:00:19 * aquatix is a bit confused now Jul 03 12:00:27 do they have broken SRV records? Jul 03 12:00:35 does collabora haze use libpurple for xmpp? Jul 03 12:00:42 how do i check? Jul 03 12:00:57 it should use gabble for XMPP Jul 03 12:01:07 it does Jul 03 12:01:14 i just wasn't sure what gabble was :) Jul 03 12:01:17 guys - who will be on guadec? Jul 03 12:01:49 Server uses XEP-0078 (jabber iq auth) instead of SASL Jul 03 12:01:54 connection_auth_cb: failed Jul 03 12:01:56 hm Jul 03 12:02:02 i have the right pw and stuff Jul 03 12:02:51 oh, yeah. if the server claims to do XMPP 1.0, and doesn't actually, then a) it sucks and b) diablo's version of loudmouth doesn't have a workaround for that flavour of breakage Jul 03 12:03:17 ah :) Jul 03 12:03:22 likely it sucks indeed Jul 03 12:03:37 knowing that network Jul 03 12:03:46 * aquatix tries with amessage.info Jul 03 12:03:54 which has troubles with pidgin too Jul 03 12:05:43 oh cool, that one works on my n810 even though it talks about the ssl certificate having a mismatching name Jul 03 12:07:38 hm, it keeps reconnecting Jul 03 12:07:54 * aquatix notes he's spamming the chan a bit Jul 03 12:13:02 lunch time Jul 03 12:21:38 Guess we need Flash 10 on Maemo for v4l2 Jul 03 12:29:43 aquatix, telepaty-haze does use libpurple, gabble uses libloudmouth Jul 03 12:30:17 speaking about conferences, anyone coming to EuroPython? Jul 03 12:31:03 inz: check Jul 03 12:33:52 anyone know if there's gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ported to the maemo platform ? Jul 03 12:37:11 crashanddie: afaicr it is available Jul 03 12:37:20 does that include vorbis? Jul 03 12:37:29 if so, it just compiles, no porting needed Jul 03 12:37:46 yeah well, by porting I mean compiled/packaged Jul 03 12:38:21 aargh, bt headset battery is flat Jul 03 12:41:11 gstreamer0.10-plugins-base-ogg - Collection of GStreamer plugins for OGG Jul 03 12:41:16 gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-ivorbis - GStreamer plugin for Tremor Jul 03 12:42:44 theres multiple vorbis-libraries and I don't know whats different between them Jul 03 12:43:11 and none currently use dsp like the mp3-side does Jul 03 12:43:39 hmm, on the sbc front, the output is different, which might be a loss in precision, but more likely indicates a mistake Jul 03 12:43:53 headphones are charging, I'll see if I can head anything this evening Jul 03 12:43:59 s/head/hear Jul 03 12:45:17 Ave: no dsp support for ogg Jul 03 12:45:41 kulve: ever? Jul 03 12:45:45 kulve: unless someone wants to help debug a buffer problem that is Jul 03 12:45:52 someone from here was digging the dsp stuff as is Jul 03 12:46:49 Ave: me Jul 03 12:47:09 gotcha :P Jul 03 12:47:20 and others including kulve Jul 03 12:47:54 Ave: Take a look at the dsp-tremor garage project mailing list Jul 03 12:49:19 k Jul 03 12:51:37 hmm, headphones came to life for a minute, just got a burst of noise, so some problem in my tweaks :) Jul 03 12:53:15 packages.debian.org down for anyone else ? Jul 03 12:53:16 :p Jul 03 12:53:40 please feel free to take a look and tell me if you see anything wrong: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mk3/dsp/?root=dsp-sbc Jul 03 12:54:26 crashanddie, yes. Jul 03 12:55:38 lardman: seems quite hairy to say the least Jul 03 12:56:50 Ave: I'm sure the error will be simple enough, it's got to be somewhere in the _sbc_analyze_eight()/_sbc_analyze_four() fns or the tables of constants Jul 03 12:59:08 are we talking about integer overflow somewhere or what kind of problem Jul 03 12:59:33 Could be integer overflow, I also am worried about the matrix dimensions Jul 03 12:59:45 whether I've placed the dimensions the right way round Jul 03 13:00:11 2D arrays are an array of pointers to 1D arrays? Jul 03 13:00:53 in which case, I wonder if the 2D matrices I've created get padded; I read into them manually (as 1D arrays) Jul 03 13:01:49 or are 2D arrays actually just allocated as array(1st_dim_size*2nd_dim_size)? Jul 03 13:04:01 * lardman 's pocket C reference doens't have enough detail Jul 03 13:04:35 crashanddie: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/packages.debian.org Jul 03 13:05:20 lardman: 2D arrays are allocated in a single contiguous block Jul 03 13:05:26 Actually I could change the code easily to use 2d array references Jul 03 13:05:31 mgedmin: ah cool, thanks Jul 03 13:05:43 in row-major form, I think it's called Jul 03 13:05:44 which array elements are contiguous? the last dimension? Jul 03 13:05:48 yes Jul 03 13:06:10 mgedmin, 502 Server Error Jul 03 13:06:13 the irony Jul 03 13:06:15 ok, will have to check, that's what I had thought, but I may have still made a mistake Jul 03 13:06:20 array[row][col] = *(&array + row * row_width + col) Jul 03 13:07:18 mgedmin: thanks Jul 03 13:11:12 lardman: going to guadec? Jul 03 13:14:02 hrw: no, am pretty busy; away to Chicago later in the month Jul 03 13:18:11 hrw, does openmoko have an x11 driver (and xv library?) Jul 03 13:19:13 lcuk: yes - it is x11 based still Jul 03 13:19:44 does the hardware support YUV format? ;) Jul 03 13:20:24 * lcuk could do with getting his head into it and having a looksee Jul 03 13:21:18 lardman, arrays are normall [ y * XMax + x ] so for a 800*480 grid you do Y*800+x Jul 03 13:21:49 hmm, so the first dimension is contiguous then? Jul 03 13:22:03 * GeneralAntilles should unsubscribe from -users already. Jul 03 13:22:24 GeneralAntilles: I've got it set to digest and it goes straight to storage Jul 03 13:22:35 It's worse than itT Jul 03 13:23:20 lcuk: heading back to work, but I'll see what you write in the meantime Jul 03 13:24:18 array[y][x] normally if i remember rightly, but i havent used that format for years, i just allocate a single array and do the indexing like i said originally Jul 03 13:24:33 grrr @ his quick exits ;) Jul 03 13:25:10 mgedmin, did we just say the same thing (with yours first) Jul 03 13:25:23 There's just so much bad advice flying around on -users that I can't help but step in. <_< Jul 03 13:27:49 GeneralAntilles, what you mean Jul 03 13:28:09 * lcuk tries to stay out of the way of mailing lists and doesnt know where most are Jul 03 13:28:29 -users has sort of the same retarded tone as itT, but with very few intelligent voices to ameliorate the stupidity. Jul 03 13:28:33 maemo-users Jul 03 13:31:36 http://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/206313 Jul 03 13:32:44 yaay Jul 03 13:33:50 Woo, lower /. uid than lcuk. :P Jul 03 13:34:16 why where are you gen? Jul 03 13:34:40 500k something Jul 03 13:34:48 I don't ever post, though. Jul 03 13:35:38 re Jul 03 13:35:46 little under 600k on /. :D Jul 03 13:35:50 but ive wrote a shed load more comments than you :P Jul 03 13:36:16 and for the first time in about 5 years have mod points Jul 03 13:36:31 I get mod points all the time, don't use them much Jul 03 13:36:33 Slashdot has ALSO got a blog engine?!? Jul 03 13:36:46 its had the zoo for ages Jul 03 13:37:05 RST38h: the journal thing has been in there for ages.. like 8 years or so Jul 03 13:37:06 Oh, the horror... Jul 03 13:37:24 they can be submitted as articles as well if required. :) visibility and good things for the nokia tablets can only be a good thing Jul 03 13:37:40 I was only 1855 registrations too late to get a 4 digit slashdot uid. Jul 03 13:37:57 i was only 600000 too late Jul 03 13:38:03 i stopped reading/commenting at slashdot regularly at some point years and years ago Jul 03 13:38:06 * lcuk curses missing the boat Jul 03 13:38:12 got some 2500comments / excellent karma Jul 03 13:38:27 i stopped regularly posting sometime in december, i wonder why Jul 03 13:38:31 some fans too! :) Jul 03 13:38:32 * lcuk strokes his 810 Jul 03 13:38:35 (1856, infact, since my uid is 11855) Jul 03 13:38:46 lcuk <--- betrayed slashdot for itt! Jul 03 13:38:56 LiquidCoooled's Latest 24 of 4672 Comments Jul 03 13:39:02 hi all Jul 03 13:39:34 some 40 fans to be exact, "yay" Jul 03 13:39:41 Slashdot is filled with really dull geek people though. Switched to TheRegister as my news source years ago. Jul 03 13:39:50 has Maemo-pc-connectivity been substituted by the "USB Networking" applet? Jul 03 13:39:55 I don't comment very often, tho, as I have only 62 comments in total :) Jul 03 13:40:13 (but excellent karma, so obviously people like it when I comment) Jul 03 13:40:26 it's pretty easy to learn to do comments that get modded +5 Jul 03 13:40:41 its an artform to get +5 troll though :) Jul 03 13:40:47 * hendry wonders why there isn't any diablo liveCDs. takes AGES to setup an SDK currently... :( Jul 03 13:40:48 hah yeah Jul 03 13:41:14 hendry, ive seen one linux vmware image, but it was console only i think Jul 03 13:41:14 lcuk: Not really, those guys luck any sense of humor Jul 03 13:41:24 s/luck/lack Jul 03 13:41:57 anyway, back later, thought it was time to explain where the lc comes from :) Jul 03 13:42:16 plenty of folks have asked and assumed it was a typo, but i live in the uk Jul 03 13:42:50 will you change it if you move though? Jul 03 13:44:19 NEVER! Jul 03 13:44:27 ive gotten used to it Jul 03 13:44:45 damn, im closing vnc from home end, back at 6 Jul 03 13:44:55 besides, lcnl isn't pronouncable ;) Jul 03 13:45:02 [or aren't you moving here ;)] Jul 03 13:45:12 lcuk: ok, cya Jul 03 13:47:44 aquatix: To Niue you mean? Jul 03 13:48:01 timelyx, figuring out a plan for garage in bugs.maemo does not make sense if nearly no developer wants to move to bugs.maemo Jul 03 13:48:09 at least so far the feedback was... not much Jul 03 13:48:20 andre__, start by poking some of them directly? Jul 03 13:48:21 RST38h: niwha? .nl = the netherlands Jul 03 13:48:46 *** aquatix is n=aquatix@higgs.soleus.nu <=== Jul 03 13:48:55 ah Jul 03 13:49:01 hehe Jul 03 13:49:04 don't mind that hostname :) Jul 03 13:49:20 heh... some is good... well, for me it's clear that it's up to them to decide, and not me actively pushing it Jul 03 13:49:21 it's even hosted here in .nl Jul 03 13:49:29 I would actively push it. Jul 03 13:49:40 I think the vast majority of people are apathetic Jul 03 13:49:44 aquatix: aka Rock of Polinesia Jul 03 13:49:50 But the net result for the community will be a very positive one Jul 03 13:49:55 and it's something I'd like to see move forward. Jul 03 13:50:02 hmm, understand Jul 03 13:50:04 RST38h: yeah, i know it Jul 03 13:50:36 andre__, I think some others may be in a sort of "where's the beef?" state Jul 03 13:50:55 So I wouldn't take the lack of response too negatively. Jul 03 13:51:44 A good step would probably be to figure out the dozen or so top projects in the garage tracker and talk to their developers directly. Jul 03 13:51:55 I'm sure a lot of them don't follow itT Jul 03 13:52:08 some may not follow -developers, and it's easy to lose a thread in there. Jul 03 13:52:27 hmm, okay... Jul 03 13:52:49 what he manes it's easy to get naked in -developers. Jul 03 13:52:56 ...or something else. Jul 03 13:53:04 means even. Jul 03 13:53:06 not really :) Jul 03 13:53:11 s/thread/threads/ Jul 03 13:53:11 GeneralAntilles meant: some may not follow -developers, and it's easy to lose a threads in there. Jul 03 13:53:14 GA: Some may not even want to have a bugtracker Jul 03 13:53:34 reminds me of postgres. unbelievable Jul 03 13:53:47 GA: 'Cause it implies extra time needed to manage bug records Jul 03 13:53:50 RST38h, of course, which is why the bugzilla use should be opt-in. Jul 03 13:54:07 no argument there Jul 03 13:54:36 Let us put it this way: you may want to start by persuading projects that already HAVE bugtrackers to move to bugs.maemo.org Jul 03 13:54:44 Actually, I think all gforge features should be opt-in for new projects. Jul 03 13:55:10 And of course this implies having to have a painless way to migrate bug reports Jul 03 13:55:11 GeneralAntilles, I wonder whether it's possible to deactivate the GForge bug tracker at all Jul 03 13:55:12 Well, we need a system in place at bugzilla for handling garage bug tracking first. Jul 03 13:55:23 andre__, I think so, but dunno. Jul 03 13:55:23 yes, the painless migration way is missing Jul 03 13:55:50 Shouldn't be difficult, pretty much a specialized PERL or Python script Jul 03 13:55:56 no, garage bugs should be cleaned up *before* importing them to bugs.maemo Jul 03 13:56:29 the modest guys made this in a very easy (and maybe a bit rude) way: closing all tickets in garage, and asking to report to bugs.maemo if it still exists Jul 03 13:56:32 Definitely Jul 03 13:56:57 Oh, is the Modest tracker finally done for? Jul 03 13:57:19 yes Jul 03 13:57:22 yupp Jul 03 13:57:24 and they migrated old bugs using the CADT model Jul 03 13:57:45 harhar Jul 03 13:57:49 Personally, I'd be happy to volunteer to help triage and migrate bugs from tracker to bugzilla. Jul 03 13:58:04 GA: That is a LOT of bugs Jul 03 13:58:14 Not really Jul 03 13:58:20 Most of them are 770 backport bugs Jul 03 13:58:30 Oh... Jul 03 13:58:31 and I'm talking volunteering on a project-by-project basis. Jul 03 13:58:36 Those may go, right? Jul 03 13:58:46 If a dev wants help migrating, I'll volunteer. ;0 Jul 03 13:58:51 s/0/)/ Jul 03 13:58:52 GeneralAntilles meant: If a dev wants help migrating, I'll volunteer. ;) Jul 03 14:00:58 hmm. lots of things to discuss next week with Karsten wehen we both meet physically at guadec... sigh :) Jul 03 14:03:52 Barring any particularly vocal objection from any of the garage devs, a certain amount of "what's good for the community" should be factored into the decision to push the bugzilla move, and bugzilla is definitely that. ;) Jul 03 14:07:22 i have diablo scratchbox 1 going. i'm unsure how to share library headers with the host system. any clues? symlinking into /scratchbox/host_shared doesn't work Jul 03 14:11:02 hendry: Bind-mounting is the way, symlinks to outside world don't work within sb due to chrooting and other black magic Jul 03 14:12:05 Did Maemo Mapper make it into Diablo Extras yet? Jul 03 14:12:15 heh.. I am unable to draw few circles with same center point.. Jul 03 14:12:43 zuh: can you give me an example of a bind mount? Jul 03 14:13:03 mount -o bind /mydir /someotherdir Jul 03 14:13:51 after that mydir == someotherdir (wrt contents) Jul 03 14:17:57 zuh: you do this outside the scratchbox/chroot right? can you give an example mounting host's /usr/lib/java Jul 03 14:18:19 yes, outside. Jul 03 14:18:28 So you want to mount something under your target? Jul 03 14:20:17 mkdir /scratchbox/users/whatever/targets/770/usr/lib/java ; sudo mount -o bind /usr/lib/java /scratchbox/users/whatever/targets/770/usr/lib/java Jul 03 14:20:37 eh, 770 == the name of the scratchbox target Jul 03 14:21:04 and to preserve these mounts, you put them in fstab? Jul 03 14:21:15 for example, yes Jul 03 14:22:04 I have lines like '/mnt/storage/home /home none defaults,bind 0 0' there Jul 03 14:22:11 zuh: kiittos Jul 03 14:22:17 np Jul 03 14:28:29 Great picture: http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/03/cops-adopt-sms-tip-lines-to-help-fight-crime-find-out-where-the/ Jul 03 14:28:44 :) Jul 03 14:28:47 * crashanddie high 5's qwerty12 Jul 03 14:29:04 * qwerty12 returns the high 5 :) Jul 03 14:29:19 http://new.music.yahoo.com/videos/MichaelPenn/Long-Way-Down-Look-What-The-Cat-Drug-In--2162287 love this song *so* much - and the Brothers Quay video to it Jul 03 14:32:21 "drug"? isn't the proper past tense of "drag" "dragged"? Jul 03 14:32:33 I had to wonder for a while what that sentence meant Jul 03 14:32:43 "is the cat taking drugs? what does this mean?" Jul 03 14:32:54 i dunno Jul 03 14:33:09 Meh, if my cat brought in weed, I'd buy a shitload of cat treats for him. Jul 03 14:33:14 hahaha Jul 03 14:33:36 i think it's poetic license - drug in sounds better Jul 03 14:33:37 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/drug#Verb_2 Jul 03 14:33:48 It's US usage. Jul 03 14:34:23 achaa Jul 03 14:34:47 Actually in my language, achaa roughly translates to ahh, I see :) Jul 03 14:35:08 jawohl Jul 03 14:35:19 Maybe not that one :P Jul 03 14:36:06 I have 2 hours before I get shouted at :P. May as well release the kernel with fixed n800 touchscreen in android in that time. Jul 03 14:36:36 there's a Brothers Quay dvd collection that's quite um.. well... appropriate for watching with a high fever Jul 03 14:36:37 cool Jul 03 14:37:06 how's android today? is it actually usable for stuff? Jul 03 14:37:27 there are no devices shipping with it yet, correct? Jul 03 14:37:49 The version on tablets is quite an old one (m3), the latest runs but due to the suckiness of the shitty epson lcd controller, it doesn't run that great. Jul 03 14:40:07 qwerty12: I was very happy to get to see android, thank ye! Jul 03 14:40:09 eh, what's it doing, fullscreen refreshes for no reason? Jul 03 14:41:13 m-c, it's penguinbait's work too :) Jul 03 14:41:36 pupnik, something like that. the epson controller doesn't support page flipping, something like that Jul 03 14:41:41 i don't understand DIABLO_X86. why would you want to build under DIABLO_x86? why not just use the host environment? Jul 03 14:41:50 You don't build. It's for testing. Jul 03 14:42:09 qwerty12: how so? Jul 03 14:42:13 yeah but.. why not test the arm build itself Jul 03 14:42:28 hendry, For example, you can't use dsptasks under diablo_armel Jul 03 14:42:33 oh there's some debugging you can do under x86 i think, if you're hardcore in that Jul 03 14:42:36 achaa Jul 03 14:48:28 bye Jul 03 14:50:20 hrw|gone, cheers mate Jul 03 14:53:25 greetings Jul 03 14:57:11 Hi there Jul 03 15:00:37 Hey Jul 03 15:00:43 first time I have an update warning Jul 03 15:00:44 sweet Jul 03 15:00:54 :) Jul 03 15:01:19 anyone here developing ? Jul 03 15:01:28 yup Jul 03 15:01:31 developing what? Jul 03 15:01:32 quite a few in fact :) Jul 03 15:01:44 cool Jul 03 15:01:50 GeneralAntilles, update all is bliss Jul 03 15:02:00 ah, no, sorry Jul 03 15:02:02 I don't develop cool Jul 03 15:02:06 i'm starting with the toturials Jul 03 15:02:26 Talus_n810, are you a programmer ? Jul 03 15:02:29 Talus_n810, or just starting out ? Jul 03 15:02:33 yes Jul 03 15:02:44 i'm a programmer Jul 03 15:02:50 ok :) Jul 03 15:03:00 just new to maemo stuff Jul 03 15:03:23 * qwerty12 is somewhat halfway. I can't program but I wrote a quick program in python and I hack around with the kernel a bit. So I dunno what I am :P Jul 03 15:03:35 a hacker ? Jul 03 15:03:37 hehe Jul 03 15:03:41 just not a code guru Jul 03 15:03:58 crashanddie, yeah :). I've done so much stuff to my N800, heh :D Jul 03 15:04:06 (and paid the reflashing price >.<) Jul 03 15:04:34 i just have this n810 2 days Jul 03 15:04:44 Talus_n810, updated to diablo ? Jul 03 15:04:49 yep Jul 03 15:04:54 ok :) Jul 03 15:04:56 up and running Jul 03 15:05:53 i'll be developing m-health system into the n810 Jul 03 15:07:05 is there somethink like a "repo-rss" ? Jul 03 15:07:18 that i can see, if my apps are available for diablo? Jul 03 15:07:25 if/when Jul 03 15:11:08 Nokia goes green: http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/2609/photo0219wx4.jpg Jul 03 15:11:34 OH GOD, GIVE ME SOME!! :P Jul 03 15:11:45 Haha :D Jul 03 15:12:18 * GeneralAntilles shakes his head. Jul 03 15:12:26 It's like qwerty12's catnip Jul 03 15:13:05 yeah Jul 03 15:13:13 just a little less minty Jul 03 15:13:19 lol Jul 03 15:13:29 hehe Jul 03 15:13:31 I'll meow for some. Jul 03 15:14:12 damn drug addicts Jul 03 15:14:34 I'm offended :( Jul 03 15:14:41 why addicts ? Jul 03 15:14:51 just because I have a leaf doesn't mean I'm stoned to death 24/7 Jul 03 15:14:58 (Heh, I'm only joking, I've never touched the stuff, can't deny though, if I had the chance...) Jul 03 15:15:21 qwerty12: never seen the appeal myself Jul 03 15:15:27 It's quite rare on my part Jul 03 15:15:33 ;) we all addicted to life Jul 03 15:15:41 and beer Jul 03 15:15:46 :) Jul 03 15:16:01 I must've been high... 3 times in the last year ? Jul 03 15:16:08 spot on lardman Jul 03 15:16:19 And drunk... 30 times ? Jul 03 15:16:21 well mostly I just find it weird how it's so socially acceptable in some places Jul 03 15:16:31 I don't think I even know any drug users Jul 03 15:16:37 Meh, I should join my friend in Denmark... Jul 03 15:16:39 a lot stranger things are socially acceptable in some places... Jul 03 15:17:13 * RST38h used to know some. Wondering how many of them are still reasonably human though... Jul 03 15:17:17 I guess I might, but nobody's ever offered me any and I've never seen anyone use anything, apart from nicotine, alcohol and caffeine. Jul 03 15:17:54 alcohol is equally dangerous as weed, maybe even more, considering it's not "considered" a drug Jul 03 15:18:06 Ok, can anyone with an N810 and who's running android test out a kernel for me? Jul 03 15:18:10 I mean I just get thrown off when somebody just casually mentions smoking weed or whatever on IRC, because it's not something I expect people to admit to Jul 03 15:18:35 I think it would be quite pathetic to not admit it Jul 03 15:18:53 pekuja: that is only because you live in a country that has strong social taboo on it Jul 03 15:19:15 I'm in fact quite proud of the fact that I've been in contact with it (and regularly am), but have never fallen into the vice of it Jul 03 15:19:17 * RST38h did not know drug addicts existed until 1990 or so Jul 03 15:19:36 crashanddie: weed has proven long-term psychosis inducing abilities though Jul 03 15:20:22 anyone here using ubuntu and have pc connectivity configured? Jul 03 15:20:48 lardman, I'd even say more, weed triggers a genetic-disorder that causes long-term paranoia, schizophrenia, and that, even if it's the first time you use it Jul 03 15:20:50 crash: Just wait until you discover the wonders of pills. Most weed users I knew eventually switched to pills, then cocaine Jul 03 15:20:54 can't get usb0 to work Jul 03 15:21:07 RST38h, I'll never touch that shit, trust me Jul 03 15:21:15 crash: You never know... Jul 03 15:21:32 Meh, heroin /NEVER/ appealed to me Jul 03 15:21:34 well, I do know, as long as I'm conscious, I'll never try out shit like that Jul 03 15:21:38 crash: "Why smoke and fly when you can drop and teleport?" Jul 03 15:22:03 hahah Jul 03 15:22:40 RST38h, because like I said, it's casual, extremely casual, I'm not in any need of getting high, never have. And I refuse to touch something which I have seen destroy lives (admittedly, I have seen weed destroy lives, too) Jul 03 15:23:02 and alcohol and tobacco Jul 03 15:23:04 andre__, I wonder if it'd be worth putting together a pilot in order to pique some interest. Jul 03 15:23:07 dunno if caffeine has destroyed any Jul 03 15:23:09 Sniff, No one with N810 and android? Jul 03 15:23:19 (No pun intended) Jul 03 15:23:44 that would be nice Jul 03 15:24:00 pekuja: "legal" amphetamines have, though Jul 03 15:24:09 I hardly consider myself a "user". I'd just say I'm someone who knows about it, I'm educated in it, educated enough so that I could make an educated decision. Jul 03 15:24:42 And to be honest, I've seen way more lives destroyed because of alcohol than weed, or any other kind of drugs Jul 03 15:24:47 sounds like me a C++ Jul 03 15:24:56 s/a/and Jul 03 15:25:01 lardman, hahahahaha Jul 03 15:26:09 :) Jul 03 15:26:15 btw, topic should be updated, we're hardly July 1st anymore Jul 03 15:26:27 and that, no matter what timezone :P Jul 03 15:27:27 dneary's job Jul 03 15:27:37 Anybody see pagerate and pageview in Extras? Jul 03 15:27:52 No, what does it do? Jul 03 15:27:57 Oh wait. Jul 03 15:27:59 Doh. Jul 03 15:28:00 Dunno Jul 03 15:28:03 Installing now. Jul 03 15:29:26 * RST38h seen them Jul 03 15:31:06 Interesting Jul 03 15:31:46 GeneralAntilles, it can never hurt :) Jul 03 15:32:08 andre__, any Nokia-vetting involved with that? Jul 03 15:33:02 how do you mean? Jul 03 15:33:23 Is a pilot program something that's just a technical issue, or is there Nokia approval involved? Jul 03 15:34:00 err.... ok. explain first what exactly you understand under "pilot program" then :) Jul 03 15:34:27 Pick a garage project, and set up a section in bugzilla for it. Jul 03 15:34:55 So, let's take extra-cauldron, what needs doing to get that into bugzilla? Jul 03 15:35:56 well, if the devs want to move away from garage, okay. but we also need to think about component structure, and default assignee policy and so on Jul 03 15:36:50 and, by pilot, I mean a test program with a single garage project to show developers how it might work. Jul 03 15:37:00 you see,i'm not yet that totally motivated yet as long as there's stuff to work out :) Jul 03 15:37:07 modest? :-D Jul 03 15:37:13 Hehe, too late. Jul 03 15:37:17 and that's shipped on-device Jul 03 15:37:24 so it's not a Garage project, really. :P Jul 03 15:37:51 it was two months ago :) Jul 03 15:38:10 Still not quite the same, though. Jul 03 15:38:15 As it's a Nokia project. Jul 03 15:38:30 hmm, right Jul 03 15:39:34 another issue is that it makes it harder for me to do statistics and reports, because nokia of course wants to differentiate maemo bug data between "core products" (own responsibility) and community ones Jul 03 15:39:49 latter one is really something that Karsten will comment on, that's more his area Jul 03 15:40:00 Do the classifications timeless mentioned help with that? Jul 03 15:40:31 Well, I'm going to work out a bit, then shower, and then workshop night, see ya later guys Jul 03 15:40:54 hmm, a bit Jul 03 15:41:34 Later, crashanddie. Jul 03 15:41:58 Why's guenther failing so much at idling these days? :P Jul 03 15:42:05 hehe Jul 03 15:42:07 students... Jul 03 15:42:42 i'm also going to be away in half an hour :) Jul 03 15:43:58 anyone here had problems with g_ether driver in ubuntu? Jul 03 15:44:30 Anyway, I know you were looking for more response before pushing a wiki task, but mind if I go ahead and do that? Jul 03 15:45:30 GeneralAntilles, go ahead! Jul 03 15:46:18 as long as you explicitly mention that it's work and thoughts in progress, i'd owe you a beer at maemo summit for doing this :) Jul 03 15:46:47 ;) Jul 03 15:47:50 * andre__ also tries to repair a violin in real life, beside trying to catch up with irc conversations :-D Jul 03 15:48:08 Violin repair? Jul 03 15:48:13 That sounds difficult Jul 03 15:48:39 patching kernel sounds the same xD Jul 03 15:48:47 yeah, thought today of bringing it to a professional, but then i thought: hmm, why not try first :) Jul 03 15:48:55 A violin cannot be backed up Jul 03 15:49:02 Or versioned, for this matter Jul 03 15:49:08 hehe Jul 03 15:49:16 I'm with RST38h here. :P Jul 03 15:49:21 pity :) Jul 03 15:50:03 hah! i can still remove my version if it does not work and let a professional recompile the violin :-P Jul 03 15:55:48 The destruction process is way more satisfying than rm -rfing it... Jul 03 15:58:06 heh Jul 03 16:03:42 Hrm, what should I call this? "Task:Bugzilla and Garage" or "Task:Community bug tracking in Bugzilla"? Or any other suggestions? Jul 03 16:04:24 or maybe "Task:Garage bug tracking in Bugzilla" Jul 03 16:06:22 Moving from Garage tracker to Bugzilla? Jul 03 16:06:26 hmm Jul 03 16:06:40 "Task:Garage bug tracking in Bugzilla" also sounds good Jul 03 16:06:52 and my violin works. whoot. i need to blog :-) Jul 03 16:06:59 moar bloging! Jul 03 16:07:02 * GeneralAntilles cracks the whip. Jul 03 16:07:41 Going with Garage bug tracking in Bugzilla Jul 03 16:14:46 cheers mates, i'll be back later Jul 03 16:26:21 Alright, it's started: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Garage_bug_tracking_in_Bugzilla will flesh out some details and issues later. Jul 03 16:31:56 ok, i think one thing you'll need/want is to upgrade bugzilla Jul 03 16:32:53 sadly, my computer is busy watering the weeds, so i can't type particularly quickly :( Jul 03 16:34:30 actually, i'm wrong Jul 03 16:34:33 classifications are available Jul 03 16:35:09 GeneralAntilles: would you like to see this? Jul 03 17:01:15 ok Jul 03 17:01:16 well Jul 03 17:01:46 bleh Jul 03 17:01:50 * crashanddie is tired Jul 03 17:12:50 is there something like a rss file for the maemo repo? Jul 03 17:13:23 laterz ! Jul 03 17:15:31 eichi__, that's a good question actually. I think the answer is no, but a script to generate an rss feed from a releases file would be neat Jul 03 17:19:49 muahaha...my compiles will expand to take over any machine I have a shell on :D Jul 03 17:20:11 eichi, johnx, I think there is one, that was just transferred to rm_you, dunno if he's got it up yet tho Jul 03 17:20:37 aaah, right, the pack rat feed aggregator Jul 03 17:20:49 I didn't know it could generate an RSS feed though Jul 03 17:20:55 * johnx searches the logs Jul 03 17:33:35 hi all Jul 03 17:33:40 question about /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address Jul 03 17:34:49 if I replace the mac value in cal_mac_address with $(cat /home/user/MyDocs/mac.txt) Jul 03 17:35:19 and have a mac address in mac.txt, will that brick my n800 or that should work fine? Jul 03 17:35:36 probably won't brick it Jul 03 17:36:10 you probably just want to change it early at boot though Jul 03 17:36:24 or do you want to change it constantly? Jul 03 17:36:55 yes, and I'm changing (same way) in /etc/init.d/rcS Jul 03 17:37:19 ifconfig wlan0 down hw ether $(cat /home/user/MyDocs/mac.txt) Jul 03 17:37:19 ifconfig wlan0 up Jul 03 17:37:25 and that works Jul 03 17:37:46 but in cal_mac_address I still have the mac unchanged Jul 03 17:39:10 ok, I'll try it :-) Jul 03 17:39:15 also, echoing to that file seems to make my MAC address 30:30:3A:30:30:3A Jul 03 17:39:33 and I lose my connection to my AP of course too Jul 03 17:40:12 I'm about 99% sure that playing around with /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address won't do anything permanent Jul 03 17:40:23 ideally you'd want to change it in the hidden NAND partition Jul 03 17:40:40 I think someone managed to get enough access to recover lost lock codes, so maybe that's a place to start Jul 03 17:41:11 better not use my mac address Jul 03 17:41:28 what is it? 00:00:DE:AD:BE:EF ? Jul 03 17:41:31 tank-man, I'm using random generated Jul 03 17:41:32 :-) Jul 03 17:41:43 or 00:00:C0:FF:EE ? Jul 03 17:41:50 where's the fun in randomly generated Jul 03 17:42:10 is this for the wayfinder map? Jul 03 17:42:17 yes Jul 03 17:42:20 heh Jul 03 17:42:45 ah, I thought this was something fun, like security testing... Jul 03 17:43:01 the old version of map works if you just change the mac with ifconfig Jul 03 17:43:28 but the new one is testing the mac in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address Jul 03 17:44:04 wouldn't it be easier to do a string replace in the binary to have it read a different file? Jul 03 17:45:45 modifying the exe is stealing Jul 03 17:45:47 :-)) Jul 03 17:46:11 fuzzy line you walk there Jul 03 17:46:53 ^ Jul 03 17:46:57 Is there a line? Jul 03 17:47:16 Johnny Cash says yes Jul 03 17:47:24 Johnny Cash is dead Jul 03 17:47:40 and now ion_cu_vaca walks the line, though not as musically Jul 03 17:48:21 lbt, are you knocking about and since you have a bit of nounce about git is there any possibility that you could get git compiled for n8x0? Jul 03 17:49:23 Anyone here using any of those foldable bluetooth keyboards? Jul 03 17:49:36 I'm thinking of picking one up Jul 03 17:50:48 i have the apple bt one Jul 03 17:52:00 tank: A foldable one? I didn't know they made them. Jul 03 17:52:19 no, just normal flat one Jul 03 17:52:23 :P Jul 03 17:52:34 heh ok :) Jul 03 17:52:52 I'm looking for something foldable to stuff in my backpack pocket Jul 03 17:53:35 well, i replaced the mac from /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address with $(cat /home/user/MyDocs/mac.txt), but after the reboot, in cal_mac_address I still have the n800's original mac Jul 03 17:54:25 any ideas how to get a fake value in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address Jul 03 17:54:44 ? Jul 03 17:56:18 it's set by cal, so maybe do a string edit of *that* binary to look someplace besides NAND for the MAC? Jul 03 17:59:14 GreyFoxx, i heard of a swap 800 for 810 program from some development company Jul 03 17:59:48 http://smancke.blogs.evolvis.org/2008/06/19/give-a-n800-get-a-n810/ Jul 03 18:00:01 ooops, closed now Jul 03 18:01:26 heh Jul 03 18:02:04 * ScreamingN800 loves the new bigger *writeable* initfs in Diablo Jul 03 18:02:58 johnx, where is cal? Jul 03 18:03:08 ion_cu_vaca, /mnt/initfs Jul 03 18:03:26 thanks Jul 03 18:03:34 'cal' is the name of the thing, but not necessarily the file you need to edit Jul 03 18:03:40 FINALLY! We can have ext3 filesystems booting. Journalling forever! Jul 03 18:04:07 * johnx has been using ext3 as a bootable FS for months now Jul 03 18:04:12 well, what's the file? Jul 03 18:04:36 ion_cu_vaca, there are a lot of files involved, find the one with the string you're interested in :) Jul 03 18:04:43 I really haven't looked into this Jul 03 18:05:20 * qwerty12_N800 perks on cal. i looked into it a little bit Jul 03 18:05:26 *up Jul 03 18:05:30 johnx is a smart bu**er --- Needs a tiny patch to /mnt/initfs/linuxrc Jul 03 18:06:04 nah, I just used fanoush's little bootmenu modification Jul 03 18:06:46 GreyFoxx: i have the Thinkoutside Stowaway and i think it's excellent Jul 03 18:06:56 Which you no longer need now /mnt/initfs can be mounted writeable Jul 03 18:07:57 Just mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs and use you fave editor Jul 03 18:08:18 fair enough Jul 03 18:08:28 I thought he made the bootmenu a little nice or something though Jul 03 18:08:34 cal isn't in initfs. it's not even a filesystem. Jul 03 18:08:56 qwerty12_N800, hmm? what's not an FS? Jul 03 18:09:14 pup: cool :) Jul 03 18:09:21 cal :). it's part of config partition Jul 03 18:09:51 but there's also the things that access cal from initfs Jul 03 18:09:59 i guess wlancond reads value of wlan mac from cal and sets it there Jul 03 18:10:27 but if you know how to edit cal itself, initfs is irrelevant Jul 03 18:11:02 right, but all he care's about is the entry in /sys, not the actual mac address used for networking Jul 03 18:11:12 modest built BTW, any takers? Jul 03 18:11:24 johnx: No longer needed, (though nice). I just added a line "mount /dev/$root_dev -t ext3 -o rw,noatime,nodiratime /mnt/new_root" into mount_device and Bob is you mothers brother Jul 03 18:11:34 qwerty12, so, where and what should I modify to get a fake mac in /sys/devices/platform/wlan-omap/cal_mac_address? Jul 03 18:12:30 s/you/you're/ Jul 03 18:12:30 ScreamingN800 meant: johnx: No longer needed, (though nice). I just added a line "mount /dev/$root_dev -t ext3 -o rw,noatime,nodiratime /mnt/new_root" into mount_device and Bob is you're mothers brother Jul 03 18:12:45 ion_cu_vaca, you can't :(. the format of the cal isn't reversed. Jul 03 18:13:00 here are my notes on it : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20465 Jul 03 18:13:45 right, and since it's poking at a raw NAND system, not a file there's no string to replace Jul 03 18:13:45 it's probably easier to reverse the map app itself and get it to read another file Jul 03 18:13:56 * johnx made a mistake :) Jul 03 18:14:08 which is what I suggested in the first place :) Jul 03 18:14:24 yeah, johnx :-) Jul 03 18:14:57 While I am here, if anyone else has a MicroSD in the Kingston Micro-FullSize converter. Jul 03 18:15:32 what editor should I use to try to edit a binary file? vi? Jul 03 18:15:47 nope, an hex editor Jul 03 18:15:50 Which is impossible to get of the slot having no thumbnail hole Jul 03 18:15:53 hexedit is my choice Jul 03 18:16:09 if that fails, scream and load up ida Jul 03 18:17:07 A little Cellotape tag made by doubling the stuff after the end of the card works a treat. Jul 03 18:17:08 i'll take a look at the map app too, i never used the trial despite activating it Jul 03 18:18:17 anyways ion_cu_vaca, you're on your own from here :) Jul 03 18:18:32 G'nite all and sundry Jul 03 18:20:28 johnx, I know and I think I'll give up for now. I don't have linux on my computer Jul 03 18:21:33 you don't need linux :( Jul 03 18:21:36 *:) Jul 03 18:21:55 anyways, I'm off to bed anyways Jul 03 18:21:58 * johnx sleeps, lurks Jul 03 18:22:02 night :) Jul 03 18:22:11 'night qwerty12_N800 Jul 03 18:24:24 tx johnx, gn. Jul 03 18:26:19 hi crashanddie Jul 03 18:37:05 Hi there Jul 03 18:37:24 We are going to announce the registration of the Maemo Summit right now Jul 03 18:37:37 only the time to put the links and write announcement & blog Jul 03 18:37:50 you have the link with the info above in the topic Jul 03 18:37:59 the registration form is here: https://maemo.org/news/events/registrations/register/2f91448248e711dd8bcbb7b26102ad49ad49.html Jul 03 18:38:07 * lcuk waves Jul 03 18:38:15 you can follow who is registered at https://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_summit-001/ Jul 03 18:38:44 if you find any issue please report bugs to http://bugs.maemo.org - Product Website component Calendar Jul 03 18:38:51 qgil, do I have to mention my workplace even though this has NOTHING to do with them? Jul 03 18:38:58 up to you Jul 03 18:39:04 this is just for information to others Jul 03 18:39:11 fair enough Jul 03 18:39:40 please ask all these questions in the wiki page, so we can answer there and all keeps well documented Jul 03 18:42:25 :( @ my karma Jul 03 18:43:23 can i get someone to change the form Jul 03 18:43:31 "The company that hires you" Jul 03 18:43:37 s.b. /employs/ Jul 03 18:43:46 unless you can predict your next employer... Jul 03 18:44:01 * lcuk wants to Jul 03 18:44:02 timeless: there are typos that even myself can see :) Jul 03 18:44:06 file bugs Jul 03 18:44:12 I just didn't want to wait one day more Jul 03 18:44:17 tomorrow I'm flying to GUADEC etc Jul 03 18:44:18 qgil: but that'd be karma whoring :) Jul 03 18:44:24 ok, enjoy guadec Jul 03 18:45:03 * timeless tries to figure out what 'main volunteering project' means Jul 03 18:45:09 * timeless doesn't speak this form's language Jul 03 18:45:11 ... and now I will ignore your some time until I get all this up and ready ;) Jul 03 18:45:19 qgil, one thing, related to linuxtag: could you find out when the reimbursement will be due, the cc is maxed here... Jul 03 18:45:43 should be on its way, really Jul 03 18:46:00 ok cool :) thx Jul 03 18:47:10 timeless, i sussed it anyway, its what you are there to do/discuss/code/expand Jul 03 18:48:56 how do i put my user and date in the wiki Jul 03 18:49:10 its some combo of squiggles but i have no idea what Jul 03 18:49:47 typically ~~~~ or something, isn't there a preview button? Jul 03 18:50:15 yer, ill see if it works - id tried 2 and 3 Jul 03 18:50:16 .. Jul 03 18:50:58 ~~~~ Jul 03 18:50:59 ARGH!!! STOP IT generalantilles!!! Jul 03 18:51:06 lol Jul 03 18:51:09 haha Jul 03 18:51:13 ~$50 Jul 03 18:51:14 * infobot takes the cash and sucks generalantilles off Jul 03 18:51:17 Is funnier Jul 03 18:51:25 /much creepier Jul 03 18:51:45 sucks off sounds like it's giving heads Jul 03 18:52:14 ~$5 Jul 03 18:52:23 ~$20 Jul 03 18:52:27 ~$100 Jul 03 18:52:28 * infobot gives generalantilles full service! Jul 03 18:52:49 oh shit :D Jul 03 18:53:00 um Jul 03 18:53:01 https://maemo.org/news/events/registrations/registration/view/bf1e6a1e493011ddb23f551b85fcedc6edc6.html Jul 03 18:53:07 Midgard CMS Jul 03 18:53:08 Access denied Jul 03 18:53:09 infobot, you a boy or a girl? Jul 03 18:53:10 I'm a transexual transvestite from transylvania. Jul 03 18:53:13 it won't let me visit the registration page Jul 03 18:54:16 timeless: DENIED Jul 03 18:54:28 * lcuk dances around cos he registered :P Jul 03 18:56:22 Bug 3388 Submitted Jul 03 18:56:48 timeless: appreciated Jul 03 18:57:00 qgil: i don't like karma whoring :) Jul 03 18:57:13 on that note, i think i'll release a blog :) Jul 03 18:57:19 mmm in fact it shouldn't show up there Jul 03 18:57:28 ? Jul 03 18:57:33 hey qwerty12_N800 Jul 03 18:58:00 no, I asked for it but only internally so we could have it as additional value when going through sponsoring requests Jul 03 18:58:09 crashanddie, hi :) Jul 03 19:02:41 fwiw, i've updated http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/144/ and http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/143/ for people who don't recognize the terms :) Jul 03 19:04:49 lol Jul 03 19:04:51 Nice pictures Jul 03 19:05:19 Bug 3389 has been added to the database Jul 03 19:05:46 * timeless wishes someone would fix http://maemo.org Jul 03 19:05:50 actually wait a second Jul 03 19:05:55 i can fix bugs.maemo.org :) Jul 03 19:06:09 https://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/maemo_summit-registration_open-_free.html Jul 03 19:06:37 can you please spam the maemo lists and ITt? I'm going to blog about this right now - thanks! Jul 03 19:07:36 an one important thing: those of you having invested soooooo many hours in this beloved Maemo platform: please register Jul 03 19:08:08 https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2008/Sponsorship is for contributors like you, if that helps Jul 03 19:10:12 :) Registered Jul 03 19:12:24 143 is great Jul 03 19:13:58 re Jul 03 19:14:06 \o hi jaffa Jul 03 19:14:22 qgil: I need to investigate flights from London to Berlin and then Berlin to Amsterdam/Eindhoven. Fun fun fun. Jul 03 19:15:31 I was looking at flights from Bristol to Berlin, £57 return! Jul 03 19:17:47 pupnik: feel fre to vote for 145 when planet finds it :) Jul 03 19:17:59 if 143 is still in planet archives, you can vote for it too :) Jul 03 19:18:55 karma whore! Jul 03 19:19:06 hey, i deserve that karma! :) Jul 03 19:19:13 What is with crap like this? http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo-planet.jpg Spammy. . . . Jul 03 19:19:39 what is legacyofflies.com ? Jul 03 19:20:15 Plugin hosting website for Redline that I help setup and run http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redline_%28video_game%29 Jul 03 19:21:07 * timeless sighs Jul 03 19:21:13 someone really needs to move planet off maemo.org Jul 03 19:23:03 timeless: I have checked memory consumption with htop Jul 03 19:23:04 Jaffa: https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo_Summit_2008#Travel Jul 03 19:23:26 JamieBennett: please share also at https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo_Summit_2008#Travel Jul 03 19:23:28 timeless: browserd takes 6-7MB on the average when nothing is running Jul 03 19:23:53 i think that's reasonable/expected Jul 03 19:23:59 timeless: Is there any way to make it quit after 5-15 minutes? Jul 03 19:24:05 does browser start faster today than it did in chinook? Jul 03 19:24:10 not really Jul 03 19:24:21 that's somewhat unforunate.. Jul 03 19:24:25 how do you guys type a | into an n810? Jul 03 19:24:36 maemo: depends if you're using en-gb or en-us for the keylayout Jul 03 19:24:45 s/maemo/bmidgle1/ Jul 03 19:24:46 timeless meant: bmidgle1: depends if you're using en-gb or en-us for the keylayout Jul 03 19:24:53 en-us Jul 03 19:24:57 well, it would be fortunate to be able to make browserd quit if it is not being used for more than n minutes Jul 03 19:25:02 but mostly you hit the &!ae button Jul 03 19:25:19 rst38h: /maybe/ Jul 03 19:25:21 bmidgle1: hit the Chr key Jul 03 19:25:27 and go on row down Jul 03 19:25:27 the way it is right now though, it does not speed things up much while eating 6MB of RAM Jul 03 19:25:46 rst38h: is that resident? Jul 03 19:26:00 thanks aquatix Jul 03 19:26:25 qgil: ok Jul 03 19:27:31 is obexsrv part of the base os? I installed something before the diablo upgrade and i'm trying to debug obex connection failures... Jul 03 19:28:09 bmidgle1: if it's open source, http://mxr.maemo.org/ should answer the question Jul 03 19:31:25 wah, people voted against wile e coyote Jul 03 19:32:01 Not Warner Bros fans, I suppose. Jul 03 19:34:15 heh Jul 03 19:34:22 i can't bury this item properly Jul 03 19:39:53 * timeless sighs Jul 03 19:39:55 garage sucks Jul 03 19:40:02 or planet sucks Jul 03 19:40:05 lol Jul 03 19:40:21 so Diablo is the way to go? Jul 03 19:40:31 dont tell me that, im just trying to work out how to get my project into it Jul 03 19:40:42 diablo obex issues: obexsrv -l is being spawned on n810 but connecting from a trusted device fails Jul 03 19:41:08 from the hcidump, it looks like the n810 just drops the connection Jul 03 19:41:25 lcuk: sorry, this isn't garage, it's a blog article *about* a garage :o Jul 03 19:41:44 :S oook Jul 03 19:42:06 * ricko73 could use a garage, about 20x22ft would be great Jul 03 19:42:14 strange, "-l" isn't a documented flag Jul 03 19:42:20 for obexsrv Jul 03 19:44:28 qgil: presumably maemo summit registration is free, but doesn't get you into OSiM World for free? (Thinking, in particular about Ari's keynote) Jul 03 19:45:18 OSim is 399 euros+tax for a developer Jul 03 19:45:26 I'll be there Jul 03 19:46:12 Anyone know a cheap airline which operates between Amsterdam/Eindhoven and Berlin? Jul 03 19:46:32 KLM? Jul 03 19:46:49 AirBerlin? Jul 03 19:46:55 Jaffa: we still have to get a deal closed with the organizers Jul 03 19:47:02 th developer sessions are entrance free Jul 03 19:47:07 but this is not enough Jul 03 19:47:09 qgil: interesting Jul 03 19:47:21 "developer registration" is """"only""""" 300€ or so Jul 03 19:47:30 a plan could be Jul 03 19:47:34 gtk + xshm , how to use it? Jul 03 19:47:38 imeless: yes Jul 03 19:47:44 JamieBennett/lorelei_: thanks. Additionally, anyone know which Berlin airport is best? Jul 03 19:47:58 a bunch of guys with full registration covered, those that (we could say) really deserve the best Jul 03 19:48:06 timeless: it reports 11MB resident browserd, but only 6-7MB are actually private Jul 03 19:48:13 any one have an answer? Jul 03 19:48:14 madhav, do you want to sit gtk ontop of a shm bitmap or just want a shm memory block within a gtk app? Jul 03 19:48:22 then the rest a combination of dev sessions + the morning when ari has keynote Jul 03 19:48:26 or something like that Jul 03 19:48:34 let's see what they say Jul 03 19:48:37 Jaffa: hmmm, actually AirBerlin doesn't do the Eindhoven-Berlin route..sorry :( Jul 03 19:48:40 qgil: that'd be cool Jul 03 19:48:59 and how many people requests sponsorship, how fits in our budget, how cheap flights and accommodation can be.... Jul 03 19:49:40 If I can find cheap enough flights, and a cheap hotel, I can probably get away without sponsorship Jul 03 19:49:46 lcuk: i am basically looking for perf improvement..right now i am using pixbuf to show image for widget/window.. so thought using Xshm will improve perf (blitting would be better) Jul 03 19:50:11 Jaffa: I'm in the same boat, do it on the cheap if possible (OSim and Maemo summit) Jul 03 19:50:12 madhav: it does improve things but not by much Jul 03 19:50:23 madhav: direct fb access should be faster Jul 03 19:50:47 madhav, you will have trouble housing gtk within anything other than native x (from that i could gather) Jul 03 19:51:17 sdl uses a shm buffer if i remember rightly but that doesnt even bring remarkable perf benefits Jul 03 19:51:31 i managed to sidestep the issue by using the xv library and writing as YUV Jul 03 19:51:51 xv library? Jul 03 19:52:28 yer, Xv overlay YUV bitplanes - what mplayer and the standard media player displays movies on (the only thing that moves quick...) Jul 03 19:52:36 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI Jul 03 19:52:40 will there be a maemo developers wet t-shirt competition? Jul 03 19:53:05 Ewww Jul 03 19:53:07 Just bring the man boobs ;) Jul 03 19:53:15 * lcuk throws up Jul 03 19:53:41 lcuk: i have gtk widgets with pixbuf images as bkground/icon...will that improve.. with YUV? Jul 03 19:53:49 no... Jul 03 19:54:18 well, not unless you redesign SQL to use YUV, or adapt x11 to natively work in YUV or something like that Jul 03 19:54:41 not SQL - i meant GTK and/or SDL Jul 03 19:54:48 * lcuk has databases on his mind Jul 03 19:55:13 SDL with directfb?? something like that? Jul 03 19:56:01 not really, the framebuffer cannot display fullscreen RGB data fast enough. the only way round that is to lower the resolution (and solve the tearing issue) or screw everything and try YUV format Jul 03 19:56:11 look at my video i just posted to see where ive got up to Jul 03 19:56:20 okay Jul 03 19:56:59 i will be releasing the source at some point (hopefully this evening if crashanddie hurries up ;)) but dont know if it will be generically useful at this point Jul 03 19:58:06 :D Jul 03 19:58:20 STOP HIGHLIGHTING ME, I'M GIVING A LESSON HERE Jul 03 19:58:23 ahhh lbt :D just the person i need to see. ... Jul 03 19:58:26 i'll release a new emulator *you*know*when* Jul 03 19:58:27 PMSL! Jul 03 19:58:32 Back again :) Hello everybody :) Jul 03 19:58:35 gimme a sec, I'm giving 'em an exercise Jul 03 19:58:49 thats ok crashanddie, close your irc Jul 03 19:59:24 pupnik, so you are comin? Jul 03 19:59:40 no i have no idea where'll i'll be in sept Jul 03 19:59:50 i'm planning to part Moscow to the Maemo Summit right after Queen concert :) Jul 03 19:59:53 I only stopped by to say hi - Mrs lbt is calling... Jul 03 19:59:57 * lcuk can see you riding across germany, laptop in hand "i got video out to work, it works, it works!" Jul 03 20:00:03 kisses to mrs lbt from me Jul 03 20:00:03 was it quick lcuk? Jul 03 20:00:11 lcuk: i had a look at that video...how did u achieve that perf..with xv YUV? Jul 03 20:00:13 pupnik: I'll enjoy that ;) Jul 03 20:00:17 The information about hotels is extremely useful btw Jul 03 20:00:22 yes lbt, if you could have a look at getting git compiled for nit i would be most appreciative Jul 03 20:00:27 not now obviously Jul 03 20:00:33 OK - why not... Jul 03 20:00:40 but i havent got enough installed here and i cant get my vmware working Jul 03 20:00:41 on my todo then... Jul 03 20:01:12 excellent :) you go and service mrs lbt :P :D Jul 03 20:01:13 I 'ported' ddd the other day - absolute doddle - just worked Jul 03 20:01:30 lcuk:? Jul 03 20:01:35 ive got a feeling i could get git working, but it needs perl as one of its build steps Jul 03 20:01:48 madhav, yes Jul 03 20:02:07 i wrote the entire rendering engine, from pixels to rectangles to lines to font glyph blitting Jul 03 20:02:13 and all the classes on top Jul 03 20:02:17 * lcuk has tired fingers Jul 03 20:02:24 hmm - I wish SDK+ wasn't dead - that uses host apps.... still... Jul 03 20:02:31 * lbt has gone now Jul 03 20:03:02 lcuk: have u tried SDL with opengl backend? Jul 03 20:03:37 how would that help? Jul 03 20:05:01 X gets accelerated with GPU i guess.. Jul 03 20:05:13 wicked! i didnt know that Jul 03 20:05:33 awww man, theres me working my fingers to the bone when i couldv just done that :P Jul 03 20:05:51 git in scratchbox, yeah, done Jul 03 20:05:58 night Jul 03 20:06:00 we dont have drivers on this device for the powervr hardware on our machine Jul 03 20:06:23 powervr? Jul 03 20:07:02 madhav: the short story is that opengl in maemo is currently not accelerated Jul 03 20:08:14 RST38h: how about direct fb? Jul 03 20:08:32 direct fb is faster than going through gtk but it is not accelerated either Jul 03 20:08:33 that sucks too :/ Jul 03 20:08:48 qwerty12_N800, what res is android running in? Jul 03 20:09:07 lcuk, no idea :/ Jul 03 20:09:26 cos theres a yt vid of a rotating cube Jul 03 20:09:28 800x480 I think Jul 03 20:09:48 didn't noticed quaded-pixels Jul 03 20:10:02 i cant see single pixels anyway so i wouldnt know Jul 03 20:10:33 is ther eany screenshot software?) Jul 03 20:10:46 It might give an answer) Jul 03 20:10:50 for android? Jul 03 20:10:58 yep Jul 03 20:11:21 android on what device? Jul 03 20:11:29 n8x0 Jul 03 20:11:46 probably the native 800x480.. i'd guess Jul 03 20:12:15 i don't know for android, i don't think it's meant to allow direct access to things. Jul 03 20:12:26 it's meant to limit to their javalike vm Jul 03 20:12:30 yep, maps software looks very sharp Jul 03 20:12:37 so I think it's native Jul 03 20:12:42 btw, does android run normal midp apps? Jul 03 20:12:48 but still, it runnin on other than native reso would sound weird Jul 03 20:12:58 RST38h: well.. sorta no Jul 03 20:13:05 not really, none native res on this device looks fine Jul 03 20:13:05 sorta? Jul 03 20:13:15 ie 640*480 is indistinguishable Jul 03 20:13:25 RST38h: they'll have to ship a midp vm with the devices to be taken seriously.. Jul 03 20:13:27 shouldn't be too straining to make a quick app to read /dev/fb2 using load-applet as example to make program to run over ssh Jul 03 20:13:46 RST38h: but haven't read of any yet Jul 03 20:13:50 glass: aren't midp classes sufficient though> Jul 03 20:13:52 ? Jul 03 20:13:59 lcuk, how blind are you? Jul 03 20:14:08 RST38h: the android vm isn't normal java, it's converted bytecode to their own format Jul 03 20:14:08 brb, i'll try and get a screenshot Jul 03 20:14:11 that, btw, would have shown us how fast android really is Jul 03 20:14:32 glass: well, as long as there is convertion from java bytecode, it should not be a problem Jul 03 20:14:40 RST38h: pre-conversion Jul 03 20:14:48 RST38h: the installer could do it i suppose Jul 03 20:14:58 RST38h: but like said, i've yet to read anything on it Jul 03 20:15:03 android isnt just java though is it - i thought it was an entire kernel platofmr with a java frontend Jul 03 20:15:12 RST38h: remember, lots of folk assumed iphone to have j2me apps too because thats just industry standard.. Jul 03 20:15:21 lcuk: yes, but google oly wants you to see the frontend Jul 03 20:15:24 lcuk: 3rd party apps are pretty much supposed to just be java Jul 03 20:15:35 glass: well, iphone has no java, android *is* java Jul 03 20:15:38 lcuk: the kernel part customisation is meant just for device manufacturers etc Jul 03 20:15:39 but im seeing examples which are using opengles Jul 03 20:16:01 RST38h: yeah but the point is to not assume features, especially from first entries to market.. Jul 03 20:16:11 lcuk: so? Jul 03 20:16:14 lcuk: a few people who complained about lack of native developemnt have been eventually kicked off andoird mailing lists Jul 03 20:16:23 lcuk: opengles like stuff can be doen in java you know Jul 03 20:16:47 yes, but doesnt that imply you have the low level library to support the java top layer? Jul 03 20:17:11 hmm? Jul 03 20:17:31 as in getting the powervr drivers from it? Jul 03 20:17:36 or what you're shooting at? Jul 03 20:17:47 now you are seeing why it has piqued my curiosity Jul 03 20:17:59 heh, well that is a possibility Jul 03 20:18:05 i wouldn't count on it tho Jul 03 20:18:22 can someone quickly sum-up why one should care about android at *all*? Jul 03 20:18:31 lot of android hypers don't understand the level of sandboxing theres going to be.. Jul 03 20:18:43 pupnik: because it's google.. but thats not really a reason to care at all Jul 03 20:18:48 pupnik, its multiplatform linux core Jul 03 20:18:57 pupnik: lot of people care because it's linux, but thats not really a reason to care at all either Jul 03 20:19:13 pupnik: Google wanting to beat the growth of Windows Mobile with a fairly-open mobile platform, which seems to care about usable/pretty UI Jul 03 20:19:26 pupnik: theres no reason to care untill they start shipping devices in big numbers, if they ever do Jul 03 20:19:41 It's all very buzzword compliant. Java. Google. Linux. Open. Jul 03 20:19:47 it's a whole linux OS running on a java vm? Jul 03 20:19:53 no.. Jul 03 20:19:57 linux is just used to run the vm Jul 03 20:19:58 no, its a whole linux os Jul 03 20:20:07 and interact with hw and shit Jul 03 20:20:10 It's a Java app environment running on a Linux OS Jul 03 20:20:18 ok ty Jul 03 20:20:38 and they delayed the first devices to late year Jul 03 20:20:40 Or Java-language/API-based app environment Jul 03 20:20:41 the thing about android Jul 03 20:20:51 is that it's not fully 'open' in its development Jul 03 20:20:52 now if they have got drivers in there for the omap2420 and they work i would want to know why cant we have them in maemo Jul 03 20:20:57 all pie in sky atm Jul 03 20:21:00 supposedly it will be fully once they release the big 1.0 (or something) Jul 03 20:21:20 but i'll believe it when I see the gpl stamped all over it Jul 03 20:21:30 Toba: they totally bullshitted the openness on it's hype launch, even though pretty short afterwards after reading the api stuff etc it was obvious it doesn't matter at all for normal devs that it runs linux Jul 03 20:21:41 yes. I know. Jul 03 20:21:48 lcuk: i doubt there will be omap2420 based android devices.. Jul 03 20:21:50 Toba: Maemo's not fully open in its development either (historically, at least); that hasn't stopped *us* Jul 03 20:22:06 jott, have you seen gl on 810 looking like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae1EuH-59VE&feature=related Jul 03 20:22:06 true true Jul 03 20:22:56 granted it might be my eyes, or just a partial display window updating, but that looks smoother than any 3d ive seen on device Jul 03 20:23:05 lcuk: interesting Jul 03 20:23:11 lcuk: well i have seen quake, doom, etc on the devices Jul 03 20:23:18 lower resolution Jul 03 20:23:27 hence my initial question Jul 03 20:23:29 lcuk: remember YouTube is 15fps and it looks a little slow-mo Jul 03 20:23:36 quake at full res is quite performant.. Jul 03 20:23:39 and it's more than a cube ;) Jul 03 20:23:41 faster than nobounds Jul 03 20:24:04 * GeneralAntilles thinks the Flash 10 beta doesn't work so well with YouTube. . . . Jul 03 20:24:09 jott, quake is not 3d in the same sense Jul 03 20:24:11 it doesnt use gl Jul 03 20:24:17 I see lots of green rectangles. Jul 03 20:24:35 lcuk: gl is just a language specification Jul 03 20:24:59 Maybe someone could poke in android and see if they find any powervr code? Jul 03 20:24:59 or api specification Jul 03 20:25:02 youtube vids arent much for judging quality/speed Jul 03 20:25:13 well mine looks good in it :) Jul 03 20:25:21 and andorid does a software rasterizer fallback Jul 03 20:25:25 its ok, it just looked faster and made me curious Jul 03 20:25:33 and i suppose it could be reasonable fast Jul 03 20:26:15 Oh, that rotating cube... My Nokia E70 phone, which does not have accelerated 3D... the Python SDK comes with a spinning cube opengles demo, and it's prefectly smooth on that phone... It has less powerful CPU than N810 iirc Jul 03 20:27:15 well, yeah just look at warzone 2100, quake 1/2, doom, etc to see what the n8x0 can do without hw accelerated gl.. Jul 03 20:27:27 oh, btw, is there any friendly way to exit android?) Jul 03 20:27:43 brb Jul 03 20:30:27 is it possible to make modules.dep for initfs? insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/ etc is getting boring now. Jul 03 20:30:54 qwerty12_N800: depmod? Jul 03 20:31:20 ShadowJK: Rotating cube is just 12 triangles Jul 03 20:31:24 like.. http://sse2.net/depmod Jul 03 20:31:37 ShadowJK: Twice less if you are culling them Jul 03 20:31:41 would I have to chroot for modprobe? Jul 03 20:31:47 thanks for depmod Jul 03 20:32:00 RST38h: you never know, you could subdivide the faces like hell *g* Jul 03 20:32:19 qwerty12_N800: i copied the modules to /lib Jul 03 20:32:33 you could equally symlink etc. Jul 03 20:32:33 ah, i see, nice idea Jul 03 20:33:59 hm speaking of initfs, has someone a running toolchain for its uclibc? Jul 03 20:34:44 jott: I had a similar one, but not the same Jul 03 20:34:45 jott, i gather you are coming to the summit Jul 03 20:34:48 newer uclibc and gcc Jul 03 20:34:49 jott: yes, but demo writers do not Jul 03 20:35:00 RST38h: yeah sure just kidding ;) Jul 03 20:35:01 fanoush filed a bug for it, would like to see outcome Jul 03 20:35:33 lcuk: yeah i guess so.. Jul 03 20:35:59 what do you mean you guess so, you have to get us all from the airport and put all of us up at your house Jul 03 20:36:20 AStorm: hm yeah getting an abritrary uclibc toolchain is fine but do your binaries work in the diablo initfs?! ;P Jul 03 20:36:33 who cares? Jul 03 20:36:38 build statically Jul 03 20:36:45 they're not larger that way Jul 03 20:37:18 I wonder why they even put uclibc there Jul 03 20:37:23 nah i could build statically with a normal libc if i wouldn't care .. Jul 03 20:37:26 it's a huge waste of space Jul 03 20:37:28 but initfs isn't brilliantly large though (round 4m now) Jul 03 20:37:34 jott: not really, glibc is huge Jul 03 20:37:42 and network code is still a lib, so not really static Jul 03 20:38:27 AStorm: still statically linking is mediocre.. Jul 03 20:38:34 no, it's better for initfs Jul 03 20:38:37 you save a bit space Jul 03 20:39:25 eh? compared to dynamically linking against the existing uclibc?! Jul 03 20:39:29 yes Jul 03 20:39:37 initfs uses just a bit of uclibc Jul 03 20:39:41 no need for the whole thing Jul 03 20:39:51 even with static duplication, it's size savings Jul 03 20:39:56 esp. thanks to compression Jul 03 20:40:43 * jott doubts that this is generally true Jul 03 20:40:55 it usually is Jul 03 20:41:01 except for whole systems Jul 03 20:41:10 static is a pain to upgrade though Jul 03 20:42:53 I even compared a static uclibc VPS for linux-vserver with a dynamic uclibc one Jul 03 20:43:07 the difference in size was close to 0 Jul 03 20:43:44 (glibc one was much larger though, both static and dynamic, static being really huge) Jul 03 20:45:53 hey guys Jul 03 20:45:58 new problem Jul 03 20:46:23 AStorm: hm i just build a printf("hello world") and the static one is 20kb the shared 3kb... Jul 03 20:46:33 (with uclibc 0.9.28) Jul 03 20:47:35 i uninstalled android with the proper .deb Jul 03 20:47:55 however, mplayer is still screwed up Jul 03 20:48:24 is there any way to fix it without waiting for qwerty12 or completely reflashing? Jul 03 20:51:52 any idea? Jul 03 20:53:20 where is the url with all the intall files Jul 03 20:53:56 http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/install/ Jul 03 20:54:11 whooper, penguinbait made a deb which flashes back old kernel. Jul 03 20:55:06 i'm fixing that in the next kernel which should be released tomorrow (just gotta wait for my n810 tester :)) Jul 03 20:56:53 I was thinking about the url at the top that had.../daveh... Jul 03 20:57:18 ..../dave/... Jul 03 20:59:05 all urls with dave should result in 403 Jul 03 20:59:10 * Knirch crawls back under rock Jul 03 20:59:34 gronmayer.com/it ? Jul 03 20:59:39 mxr.maemo.org? Jul 03 21:00:19 ~lart myself for moving my old initfs.jffs2 onto the computer, i need to jack the diablo version of kotc's colour mod Jul 03 21:00:19 * infobot whips out his power stapler and staples myself's foot to the floor for moving my old initfs.jffs2 onto the computer, i need to jack the diablo version of kotc's colour mod Jul 03 21:03:43 Women working on Debian have been getting death threats from a nut job who believes they're killing free software.Á Jul 03 21:03:44 woa. my n810 says "no availabe programs". something's wrong. Jul 03 21:03:59 (on "installable programs" screen) Jul 03 21:03:59 GA: See, how easy you have it with Maemo Wiki? Jul 03 21:04:11 RST38h: whoa Jul 03 21:04:14 Veggen: Quick, the world is ending! Jul 03 21:04:16 Load the backup! Jul 03 21:04:48 RST38h, is the retard named? Jul 03 21:05:00 Doesn't beat the "Massacre people, suicide, go to heaven, kill God" guy, but gets pretty close Jul 03 21:05:13 Named retards? Is that something of a special class of enemy, like named monsters? Jul 03 21:05:14 qwerty: Of course not Jul 03 21:05:47 sorry,i thought they know who done it. Jul 03 21:06:03 qwerty: But they would never say. Against Western sensibilities. Jul 03 21:06:09 and sometimes people are too stupid and leave obvious traces.. Jul 03 21:06:25 Shouldn't be difficult to trace down, most of the time Jul 03 21:08:29 heh, ke-recv-test is fun to play with, thx nokia for ossing it. Jul 03 21:08:50 there's something wrong with resolving. Jul 03 21:08:52 jott: bad comparison Jul 03 21:08:58 most apps aren't hello world Jul 03 21:08:59 :) Jul 03 21:09:18 they're more complex, yet still use little of libc's power Jul 03 21:09:29 so, in some situations, you can save space Jul 03 21:09:49 esp. with a compressed filesystem (same code produces similar blocks which compress well) Jul 03 21:10:17 * Jaffa is registered for the summit :-) Cheap flight from Stansted to Berlin with Ryanair for 10ukp (not booked yet in case Quim says stuff about the stuff on Wednesday), found a nice Ibis Hotel for 74eur/night and then rail service from Berlin to Appledoorn for 36eur. Jul 03 21:10:20 note, that for 3 KB hello world you need 900 KB of libc Jul 03 21:10:22 ;P Jul 03 21:10:29 or more Jul 03 21:10:42 AStorm: well the (uc)libc is already there... Jul 03 21:11:51 hmmf. dnsmasq doesn't work. Jul 03 21:13:13 jott: but it's large, compare static busybox to dynamic one Jul 03 21:13:14 :) Jul 03 21:13:26 (and it's the most bulk of initfs) Jul 03 21:13:44 RST38h, hehe, I guess so. Jul 03 21:13:45 you lose like, 30 KB vs 900 KB of libc Jul 03 21:14:00 what does apt-get update say the ip is? atarii on here fixed his problem of the repo "having" 1.0.0.0 ip by putting dns server entry manually into resolver.conf Jul 03 21:14:11 that's one reason why busybox is one executable - to save space in static build Jul 03 21:14:11 @Veggen Jul 03 21:15:14 AStorm: what's your point? i have a ready libuClibc.* on the device, my claim was, "i will save space if i compile dynamically against this existing lib compared to statically linking against it" and i still don't think you proved me wrong.. Jul 03 21:15:29 qwerty: it couldn't resolve anything. Jul 03 21:15:31 at all. Jul 03 21:16:00 afraid I had no energy to debug, I've had a few beers, but next time ;) Jul 03 21:16:06 (I rebootet. Shame on me) Jul 03 21:16:22 jott: just rebuild busybox statically (and add some more utils while you're at it) Jul 03 21:16:32 and dropbear Jul 03 21:16:47 I restarted dnsmasq without it helping. Jul 03 21:16:55 most other tools are not needed (maybe text2screen, but I think that has source code available too) Jul 03 21:17:13 there really isn't much on the initfs Jul 03 21:17:25 bme? dsme? Jul 03 21:17:38 static Jul 03 21:17:40 :) Jul 03 21:17:42 still i don't want to rebuild the initfs Jul 03 21:17:47 do as you wish Jul 03 21:17:54 dsme is not static, it uses serveral sos.. Jul 03 21:17:57 it's uclibc 0.9.28 Jul 03 21:18:07 just drop its headers and you're done Jul 03 21:18:15 and even bme is dynamically linked Jul 03 21:18:17 and you can build against it Jul 03 21:18:27 heh, you could relink it statically even Jul 03 21:18:33 not sure how to do that with ld though Jul 03 21:18:35 bleh stop talking bs Jul 03 21:19:13 you are wrong i accept your apology :p Jul 03 21:19:57 no, I'm not ;P Jul 03 21:20:04 I did a lot of crazy stuff back then Jul 03 21:20:15 can't remember though how to relink it Jul 03 21:20:34 bleh that has nothing to do with anything Jul 03 21:20:50 yup Jul 03 21:21:00 yes, you only need headers for that uclibc Jul 03 21:21:12 it's not patched in any special way Jul 03 21:21:27 would have to check which exact version Jul 03 21:21:27 and the right gcc :p Jul 03 21:21:43 yes Jul 03 21:21:45 close enough Jul 03 21:21:53 arm-pc-linux-gnueabi Jul 03 21:22:13 the same as in scratchbox Jul 03 21:22:18 same version too Jul 03 21:23:27 so, if you just dump uclibc 0.9.28 into scratchbox, you have the right toolchain ;> Jul 03 21:23:41 no special stuff needed Jul 03 21:24:08 I'd personally replace that handicapped build of busybox with a real one Jul 03 21:24:41 tar really needs to be built for initfs Jul 03 21:24:57 yup, and vi Jul 03 21:25:00 AStorm: ok, will try it this way.. thanks Jul 03 21:25:02 with more features Jul 03 21:51:22 This may be the wrong place for the question but is there any way to flash an N810 from mac os x 10.5? I try to run flasher-2.0.macosx and it tells me "Bad CPU type in executable" which I assume means "this was compiled for PPC" Jul 03 21:52:12 it works fine on Intel. Jul 03 21:52:29 Try renaming it to flasher-2.0? Jul 03 21:52:37 I'm using an intel mac. Jul 03 21:52:38 Hrm. Jul 03 21:52:39 ok. Jul 03 21:52:58 chmod +x ? Jul 03 21:53:07 No, there'd be a different error. Jul 03 21:53:14 The perms are right. Jul 03 21:53:26 it was something stupid Jul 03 21:53:26 just checked. Tried renaming too, it didn't run. Jul 03 21:53:43 but I'm blanking on what it was Jul 03 21:53:49 does macosx has some standard identification utils, like 'file' ? Jul 03 21:54:02 ~maemo-irclogs Jul 03 21:54:03 file flasher-2.0 Jul 03 21:54:03 flasher-2.0: Mach-O executable ppc Jul 03 21:54:18 So maybe I don't have rosetta installed properly? Jul 03 21:54:33 Ah, you know what, I think safari sometimes mangles the file Jul 03 21:54:38 ~maemo-logs Jul 03 21:54:39 i heard maemo-logs is IRC channels are logged at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog Jul 03 21:54:50 Redownload it? Jul 03 21:54:56 Ah... ok, I'll use FF to get it. Jul 03 21:55:13 Solution is probably in those logs if you want to google them. Jul 03 21:55:14 ok, let me ask this one simple license related question and my decision will be complete Jul 03 21:57:01 if i release liqbase under the gpl. as it stands i am still able to still grab all my code and compile it up inside a piece of software which i am commissioned by a company to create and have that as proprietary. however what i cannot do is take any additional modifications which i merge into the main gpl version by other people. and the modifications by others remain as gpl Jul 03 21:57:50 You can do whatever the hell you want with the code you wrote Jul 03 21:58:00 You can't do whatever the hell you want with patches people submit. Jul 03 21:58:01 not a lawyer but that sounds correct. You can relicense whatever code you write however you please. Jul 03 21:58:12 GeneralAntilles, NO, i cannot Jul 03 21:58:34 if people submit patches to a gpl project those patches are owned by the developer who submitted them Jul 03 21:58:36 One solution is to require all patches to submitted under a license that would let you do that. Jul 03 21:58:52 no, i would not attempt to do that Jul 03 21:59:01 i know which is my code and svn/git will tell me Jul 03 21:59:07 Or just maintain a private fork. Jul 03 21:59:08 i know what i want to use in other words Jul 03 21:59:33 thats not the problem gen, im just being cautious Jul 03 21:59:42 and garage tells me i have to choose a license Jul 03 21:59:52 not multiple licenses :) and the gpl is right Jul 03 22:01:46 GeneralAntilles, i dont want to burden the developers who may choose to assist me in creating great apps for maemo platform Jul 03 22:02:10 but if i am asked to do something proprietary for a company i can also still do that but i have to know whats mine Jul 03 22:03:02 * lcuk is trying to improve collaboration not stifle it Jul 03 22:03:26 lol Jul 03 22:07:09 GAN800: You were exactly right, safari mangled the binary. Jul 03 22:08:59 notice his arrogance Jul 03 22:09:00 lcuk: otoh you could also choose a bsd-like license.. but gpl will ensure you'll always get the code from "forks"... Jul 03 22:09:14 when he says "those who want to assist me in creating great apps" Jul 03 22:09:57 like, we're never going to be able to make anything great Jul 03 22:10:12 only he can... And he might need some assistance at one point Jul 03 22:10:48 I told you lcuk, you're going to have to get a new house... The one you have is starting to be small with such a huuuge ego :D Jul 03 22:11:28 Jaffa: there are a couple of hostels in Berlin, i stayed at one a month or so ago... Jul 03 22:11:47 i found some nice empty areas around the tracks behind the zoo :P Jul 03 22:13:53 tw-nym, it's server-side weirdness. :\ Jul 03 22:14:44 crashanddie im crap at lots of things in life, but i have a knack of finding a way of doing things. lots of apps are much better than anything i will ever build - hence my incomplete modules. but i *have* found a way to do this and i havent seen anyone else stepping up to even try Jul 03 22:14:46 pupnik will rent you a sleeping bag for $10/hour Jul 03 22:15:44 * lcuk was very unhappy with the graphics of this nokia, but damn it looks good to me now :) Jul 03 22:17:23 lcuk, like I said, you're a maniac for doing what you did. Not a lot of us would have the moral capacity to think all this over, and keep such a project over the course of a few years. Jul 03 22:18:01 this is only the first part though, the facilitator so to speak Jul 03 22:18:12 i cant do anything if i cant draw on the screen fast enough Jul 03 22:18:42 lcuk, plus, there's not a lot to step up, considering you "already own the niche", so either we wait for you to release something we'll be able to use, and go forward, all of us, either we start our own project, we're going to fuck everything over most probably, and it'll be yet another deadborn project Jul 03 22:18:43 and tbh, i dont care if its used - it was done so i could expand on things Jul 03 22:19:09 good point, but competition makes life interesting Jul 03 22:19:25 i really thought all the angles wouldv been done by now - we have been doing computer graphics for years Jul 03 22:19:41 i was genuinely shocked when i realised it was so slow Jul 03 22:19:52 jott: choosing gpl isn't really helpful Jul 03 22:20:03 because it ensures he gets code he can't use elsewhere from the forks Jul 03 22:20:17 bsd means less guarantees, but whatever comes should be usable anywhere Jul 03 22:21:00 timelyx, gpl will be fine, i know what i need and anything else built is niceness required for other projects - i just needed to draw lines tbh Jul 03 22:21:08 and fonts* Jul 03 22:21:37 timelyx: yes, i know. Jul 03 22:22:44 (that's why i came up with bsd in the first place ;-) Jul 03 22:22:50 if it can be shaped into a library and usable for all the nice projects ive heard about (ie if its easy enough for others to use and does things in the general case) then thats an added bonus Jul 03 22:25:38 then consider to use lgpl Jul 03 22:26:42 flo, hi, its not a library yet, its just a set of functions. it needs a lot of moulding but i want it out there Jul 03 22:27:20 im sick of hearing how fluid the iphone is, and want to see if we can do similar :) Jul 03 22:27:21 lgpl would bring no benefit when he wants to accept patches (without extra constraints) and still use it in an closed app.. Jul 03 22:27:44 lcuk: but if you have the idea in mind to shape it into a library it would be a useful thing Jul 03 22:28:22 jott: uh? Jul 03 22:29:22 flo_lap: he might want to use his code base in an closed source project.. Jul 03 22:29:33 is it a compatable step to license liqbase as gpl then at a later date create a standalone liqlib (or whatever) and license that as lgpl, or are gpl<->lgpl transfers not permitted Jul 03 22:29:58 lcuk: not when you accepted "gpl" patches Jul 03 22:29:59 jott, yes but i know which code is mine and i understand the implications Jul 03 22:30:06 ok Jul 03 22:30:13 lcuk: you can do this, but accepting patches is hard then Jul 03 22:30:47 alright, so if i start as lgpl it is clearer for all concerned Jul 03 22:30:50 so you have to ask every contributor if he/she is fine with lgpl .. Jul 03 22:30:56 that's why lgpl is easier Jul 03 22:31:04 * jott does not like lgpl Jul 03 22:31:11 :D Jul 03 22:31:23 i could use the microsoft shared license Jul 03 22:31:24 gpl < bsd < lgpl ;p Jul 03 22:31:26 * lcuk ducks Jul 03 22:31:30 erm Jul 03 22:31:35 jott: we ran into this with gpe... splittinc code from applications into libraries. that's a pain. Jul 03 22:31:40 otherway around ;) Jul 03 22:32:06 yeah just stick with gpl at a whole or use bsd ;p Jul 03 22:33:52 flo_lap, since you have a bit of experience, would there be implications if someone wanted to include (for instance) GPE sync or some other component Jul 03 22:33:56 jott: I agree lgpl is not perfect, but it is easy to understand, widely used and most important: made for exactly this purpose: libraries Jul 03 22:34:23 flo_lap: yes, it has it purpose ;) Jul 03 22:34:58 i've dreaded this conversation more than actually coding it Jul 03 22:35:15 lcuk: well... gpe has the same license model gnome uses: gpl for applications and lgpl for libraries. Jul 03 22:35:18 :) Jul 03 22:35:29 I too think lgpl is appropriate for a library Jul 03 22:35:43 or a future library Jul 03 22:36:04 lcuk: that's what we missed to take care of Jul 03 22:36:25 * jott thinks there are people confusing the l in "lgpl" with "library" :p Jul 03 22:36:31 lcuk: so we had a pile of contributors who had to change their codes licenese Jul 03 22:36:56 lcuk: What's the reason you want non-GPL'd applications to be able to use your code? Jul 03 22:37:00 lcuk: have you actually carefully read the GPL and LGPL? Jul 03 22:37:16 jott: iirc that was the purpose ;) Jul 03 22:37:33 argh! another license discussion! Jul 03 22:37:55 http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html :) Jul 03 22:37:56 * jott hides Jul 03 22:38:00 flo_lap: but this time there is code attached - so it's fair :) Jul 03 22:38:16 yes lbt Jul 03 22:38:34 OK - just checking... Jul 03 22:38:56 it's been a while - and I've not read v3 yet :) Jul 03 22:40:21 none of this *really* matters until you get patches Jul 03 22:40:23 * jott infects lcuk with a highly contagious gpl virus Jul 03 22:41:08 releasing gpl code will prevent people from legally using it in commercial apps Jul 03 22:41:10 you are right lbt, but i am at the garage page and its forcing my hand Jul 03 22:41:28 no, it will prevent them from using it in closed commercial apps Jul 03 22:41:30 from prior discussions I think gpl Jul 03 22:41:51 nothing wrong with selling a gpl program Jul 03 22:42:17 mmm do you want help picking a license or arguing pedantry? :) Jul 03 22:42:32 :P Jul 03 22:42:50 if you pick GPL now then *you* can pick LGPL later Jul 03 22:43:10 if you pick LGPL now then other people can take the LGPL and use it in closed apps. Jul 03 22:43:12 the license which stood out when reading was the artistic license. this fits with what i thought, but would not necessarily fit with other existing applications Jul 03 22:43:17 is my understanding Jul 03 22:43:33 ie, if somebody decided to patch fbreader to use liqbase rendering Jul 03 22:43:51 using the binary is not the issue Jul 03 22:44:44 lgpl does solve that case.. Jul 03 22:44:47 I *think* artistic is almost public domain (I'm not a license analyst) - very liberal (and 'nice') but not protective Jul 03 22:45:06 and if you are fine that others use your code in closed commercial apps, then bsd-like is the easiest solution Jul 03 22:45:16 ISTR you wanted to reserve the right to be the only one allowed to use the code in a closed app Jul 03 22:45:27 you can accept patches and later turn into lgpl/gpl without much hassle or use it in your own closed app Jul 03 22:45:31 if that is correct then it's important Jul 03 22:45:37 (in choosing) Jul 03 22:46:18 ISTR has thrown me Jul 03 22:46:22 jott: I think the key thing is "does lcuk want to make it hard to use his code in closed apps" Jul 03 22:46:36 yeah, if not, then i would thing bsd is the better choice Jul 03 22:46:38 I seem to recall (we chatted about this a few days ago) Jul 03 22:46:51 as he can accept patches and still use it in his private closed project Jul 03 22:47:03 yes - but Jul 03 22:47:27 anyone else can take his code and use it in a closed app too Jul 03 22:47:54 so lcuk - do you want (at the moment) to allow or hinder use of your code in other peoples closed apps? Jul 03 22:47:55 yes.. also with lgpl... Jul 03 22:48:24 that's why i vote for either gpl or bsd :) Jul 03 22:48:29 jott: hence I suggest GPL is a 'safer' first release (until patches) Jul 03 22:48:56 yes, i want to hinder closed apps Jul 03 22:49:02 well then use gpl Jul 03 22:49:09 yep Jul 03 22:49:10 easy as that ;) Jul 03 22:49:12 no brainer Jul 03 22:49:20 right, decision made :) thank you Jul 03 22:49:24 canola is #1 Jul 03 22:49:41 if they want it they can open themselves up Jul 03 22:49:42 hah infect canola with gpl :P Jul 03 22:49:45 if not, tough Jul 03 22:50:00 nb, in the future you *could* license your code to a closed app even if you release it GPL - cf Qt Jul 03 22:50:42 yes lbt, anything coded right up until patch day is clean and untainted. anything after the waters are muddy, but git is meant to help, hence the request earlier Jul 03 22:50:56 src dl'ed Jul 03 22:51:04 :) thanks Jul 03 22:51:27 * lcuk doesnt even know if canola needs it you know Jul 03 22:52:01 anyway, ill go and scrub the code and add some headers Jul 03 22:52:07 thank you all Jul 03 23:14:37 hullo Jul 03 23:15:03 hello Jul 03 23:15:07 HULLO hullo hull hu Jul 03 23:15:18 I keep getting sb2 errors Jul 03 23:15:30 when trying to configure Jul 03 23:15:34 "checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs." Jul 03 23:15:56 including when I do maemo-rootstrap install chinook40_armel Jul 03 23:17:17 in the program i was building, ./configure ran fine, but sb2 ./configure encountered that error, so I went to re-init sb2, and got the error again during sb2-init Jul 03 23:17:58 sorry Maximander, I had LD_PRELOAD issues with sb2 and haven't yet fixed them so I can't help :( Jul 03 23:25:33 where is config.log written? Jul 03 23:25:37 during sb2-init Jul 03 23:28:16 solved: echo 4096 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr Jul 03 23:54:24 night all Jul 03 23:54:37 lcuk - git on its way Jul 03 23:54:55 ahhhh cool, thank you v muchly Jul 03 23:55:40 i was falling asleep at the desk when you binged Jul 03 23:56:47 lbt, c++ compiles slower than straight c :( Jul 04 00:38:41 hum... Jul 04 00:39:04 Openssh + Openssh Client = fast root on Console and KDE Jul 04 00:39:05 nice Jul 04 00:39:16 KDE Konqueror that is Jul 04 01:27:53 hello Jul 04 01:29:36 is Ubuntu mobile coming out for N8*0? Jul 04 01:59:06 anybody here? Jul 04 02:22:51 hah Jul 04 02:22:52 no Jul 04 02:22:54 NEVER Jul 04 02:22:59 na na na na Jul 04 02:35:23 Your project has been submitted to the garage administrators. Within 72 hours, you will receive notification of their decision and further instructions. Jul 04 02:35:23 Thank you for choosing garage Jul 04 02:35:33 why did nobody tell me this sooner :'( Jul 04 02:35:45 tch Jul 04 02:39:05 lcuk: I can answer that question in 72 hours. Jul 04 02:39:16 heh Jul 04 02:39:20 if you ever meet a lawmaker Jul 04 02:39:24 kick him in the nuts Jul 04 02:39:42 :S no Jul 04 02:40:01 I'm pretty sure that's the worst person to kick in the nuts, second only to a policeman. Jul 04 02:40:14 nobody deserves it more Jul 04 02:40:22 Actually, a Marine. Jul 04 02:40:36 He wouldn't worry about having to fill out paperwork later. Jul 04 02:40:54 if wives had nuts im pretty sure they would be worse than any marine Jul 04 02:41:02 or even worse: the mother in law Jul 04 02:41:13 lcuk: You don't _need_ to kick them in the nuts to suffer their abuse. Jul 04 02:41:48 they are abusing you for future transgressions Jul 04 02:42:50 well i LIKE german cops Jul 04 02:42:53 And past transgressions. And imagined transgressions. And... Jul 04 02:42:53 now, i have the source to liqbase all nicely tar.gz'ed ready to go into the garage Jul 04 02:42:57 i have a cousin who is a detective Jul 04 02:43:03 irc discussions about transgressions Jul 04 02:43:14 but they are forced to prosecute idiotic stuff Jul 04 02:43:39 just like we are all forced to... oh... Jul 04 02:43:50 obey a law that forbids me from marketing my latest invention Jul 04 02:43:50 they are bound by the 3 laws of robocop Jul 04 02:44:05 yeah well pardon me, my invention was freaking cool Jul 04 02:44:11 and socialism killed it Jul 04 02:44:21 because if a child drank my invention it might get sick Jul 04 02:44:33 like... with gasoline Jul 04 02:44:39 you invented vodka? Jul 04 02:44:55 pupnik: I'm actively arguing against kicking cops in the nuts. Jul 04 02:45:23 oh i agree with that Jul 04 02:45:23 Pfft pupnik, that's a problem that marketing can solve. Jul 04 02:45:28 cops aren't lawmakers Jul 04 02:45:41 rm_you, pssst Jul 04 02:46:09 lcuk: wha? Jul 04 02:46:18 read up a few lines :P Jul 04 02:46:44 lcuk: !!!!!!!!!!!!! Jul 04 02:46:59 i made a decision today Jul 04 02:47:12 :) Jul 04 02:47:17 well, yesterday - ive headered and prepared myself Jul 04 02:47:27 pm me your mail address Jul 04 02:48:16 ? Jul 04 02:48:42 how did you do that Jul 04 02:48:48 notice Jul 04 02:48:50 /notice Jul 04 02:48:55 fair enough :) Jul 04 02:48:57 well, /notice lcuk :P Jul 04 02:49:16 anyway, I'm heading to home Jul 04 02:49:29 120euro extra for a few hours of coding, good enough :) Jul 04 02:49:52 crashanddie, :) good enough Jul 04 02:55:48 rm_you, its on its way, buti left a description file out: Jul 04 02:55:48 technology demo featuring finger friendly menus, variable resolution kinetic scrolling fullscreen document viewer, pressure sensitivity sketching with a graffiti wall showing all drawings, cpu throttling adjustments and a fullscreen starfield screensaver. Jul 04 02:56:02 * lcuk thinks he got all the keywords ;) Jul 04 02:56:41 the key one being starfield :) Jul 04 02:57:12 lol johnx yer **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 04 02:59:57 2008