**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 05 02:59:57 2008
Jul 05 03:05:44 <yigal> If I want to use command line tools with a n8xx, mutt, irssi, newsbeuter, bash or zsh, python etc. will using the n800 be far more challenging vs. n810?
Jul 05 03:07:34 <yigal> excuse me, without an external keyboard of course
Jul 05 03:07:39 <yigal> that would be cheating
Jul 05 03:07:42 <yigal> :)
Jul 05 03:13:33 <straind> Does anybody have a .deb for kismet?  The old repository doesn't have it any longer.
Jul 05 03:22:51 <Grackle_> Probably, yigal
Jul 05 03:23:28 <Grackle_> It's entirely possible. I wouldn't call it more 'challenging,' but it would quite likely be slower.
Jul 05 03:27:51 <yigal> Grackle_: the price difference is unfortunately a huge consideration for me, I'm a poor grad. student, but this technology is really hard to pass up when vim, mutt, tex, python etc. are available in such a sexy but functional package
Jul 05 03:33:55 <Grackle_> yigal, Yeah, I can't afford the N810 either, I got the N800.
Jul 05 03:34:31 <yigal> Grackle_: is it serving you well, and what do you use it for?
Jul 05 03:35:37 <derf> yigal: The hardware keyboard really isn't that great.
Jul 05 03:35:47 <Grackle_> I find it to be more of a novelty than anything. I just like trying to get it to do different things. Recently, I got gcc and make and compiled gforth on the device. Just started make and popped it in my pocket. I went to work and when I checked it at lunchtime, I had a working forth system.
Jul 05 03:35:50 <derf> The main advantage is that it doesn't take up half your screen real-estate.
Jul 05 03:36:58 <derf> The on-screen keyboard can also be reconfigured, so you can actually get a lot more of the keys.
Jul 05 03:37:49 <Grackle_> Where could I get the most money for my lightly used 770? I've considered putting it on ebay.
Jul 05 03:38:02 <yigal> well that's it I'm getting an n800
Jul 05 03:38:10 <Grackle_> I need some money for my MSI Wind fund
Jul 05 03:38:30 <yigal> Grackle_: nice :), but bucks
Jul 05 03:38:47 <Grackle_> But bucks?
Jul 05 03:39:19 <yigal> not so many
Jul 05 03:39:40 <Grackle_> I'm hoping I can get 100 or so.
Jul 05 03:39:44 <Navi> lol
Jul 05 03:39:53 <Grackle_> But I'm not sure how likely that is.
Jul 05 03:39:56 <Grackle_> Heh, Navi laughs. :|
Jul 05 03:40:44 <yigal> does anyone here use irssi, mutt, vim, emacs with n800?
Jul 05 03:40:56 <Grackle_> I also plan on selling my HP dv500t. Hopefully I can get 400 or 450 for that.
Jul 05 03:41:16 <Grackle_> yigal, I would not use emacs. Using modifier keys with the onscreen keyboard is a pain in the ass.
Jul 05 03:41:28 <Grackle_> I'm not sure if it would even be possible
Jul 05 03:41:34 <Grackle_> vim is usable
Jul 05 03:41:36 <derf> I used IRC and vim.
Jul 05 03:41:47 <Grackle_> irssi works just fine
Jul 05 03:41:52 <Grackle_> mutt ought to work fine
Jul 05 03:42:21 <derf> As I said, the main problem is you really only get a couple of lines of scrollback.
Jul 05 03:42:31 <yigal> good, good to hear, so a little gnu screen + those mentioned above and I'm really set, my mouth waters
Jul 05 03:42:51 <derf> Yes, by "use IRC" I meant, ssh+screen+irssi.
Jul 05 03:43:22 <yigal> derf: scrollback, you mean xterm keyboard history or something else
Jul 05 03:43:29 <derf> yigal: I meant on IRC.
Jul 05 03:43:40 <yigal> ah
Jul 05 03:44:12 <yigal> derf: I imagine even with 8pt font :)
Jul 05 03:44:17 <Navi> 770s go for like 50 on ebay
Jul 05 03:44:29 <Grackle_> Really Navi? I suppose I'll just keep it then.
Jul 05 03:44:39 <derf> yigal: My eyes aren't that good anymore.
Jul 05 03:45:05 <derf> I mean, 480 sounds like a lot of pixels, but that's really quite a high dpi...
Jul 05 03:45:10 <yigal> derf: perhaps I shouldn't be so unkind to them, even though my eyes still are
Jul 05 03:45:13 <Navi> 50-80 I've seen
Jul 05 03:45:50 * Grackle_ puts a few on watch
Jul 05 03:45:57 <yigal> derf: I'm getting one, it is good to read other's being able to use the device for something similar to my interest needs
Jul 05 03:46:43 <Navi> using weechat on it with the font small
Jul 05 03:46:56 <Navi> I loves mah high dpi
Jul 05 03:47:09 <derf> Oh, it looks beautiful, no doubt.
Jul 05 03:48:17 <yigal> oh, I realize the 810 is far superior trying to read with the sun, is the 800 viewable and if not can I do something to help, probably wear dark sunglasses :)
Jul 05 03:48:23 <Grackle_> I lost the stylus for my N800 a few days ago.
Jul 05 03:48:35 <Grackle_> I have the spare one around here somewhere. I need to find it.
Jul 05 03:48:39 <Navi> Grackle_, ouch
Jul 05 03:48:46 <yigal> Grackle_: that's not good, sorry
Jul 05 03:48:53 <derf> yigal: The N800 is completely unviewable in direct sunlight.
Jul 05 03:49:05 <derf> The best thing you can do is stand in the shade.
Jul 05 03:49:22 <Navi> ually do
Jul 05 03:49:30 <Navi> usually*
Jul 05 03:49:38 <Grackle_> You can get by standing in the shade, but really it's not made for the outdoors.
Jul 05 03:49:47 <derf> Yeah, it's not a problem so much until you want to walk around with maemo mapper open.
Jul 05 03:49:48 <Navi> but not so cool :(
Jul 05 03:50:03 <Grackle_> I only brought it to work a couple times (I'm a landscaper), because it's not terribly useful outside.
Jul 05 03:50:19 <GreyFoxx> How viewable is the 810's screen in direct sunlight ?
Jul 05 03:50:23 <Navi> indeed
Jul 05 03:50:31 <GreyFoxx> I have an 810 in transit to me right now :)
Jul 05 03:50:37 <Navi> It's fine
Jul 05 03:50:51 <GreyFoxx> Hurray for  Moms and birthday gifts :)
Jul 05 03:50:55 <yigal> I'll have to buy an umbrella then perhaps :)
Jul 05 03:50:56 <derf> You lose a lot of the color.
Jul 05 03:51:01 <derf> But it's perfectly readable.
Jul 05 03:51:04 <GreyFoxx> First time my mother has known what to buy me for once :)
Jul 05 03:51:05 <Navi> I don't have an 810, but my phone had a transflective screen
Jul 05 03:51:07 <GreyFoxx> derf: Sweet
Jul 05 03:51:26 <Navi> Totally readable though
Jul 05 03:51:35 <yigal> right, could I put something over the screen to make it readable?
Jul 05 03:51:47 <Grackle_> An umbrella.
Jul 05 03:51:52 <Navi> lol
Jul 05 03:51:57 <Grackle_> :)
Jul 05 03:51:59 <yigal> a little more, at least, I do a lot of stuff out doors
Jul 05 03:52:21 <Grackle_> Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do.
Jul 05 03:52:28 <yigal> Grackle_: yes, but just the monitor not the whol n800
Jul 05 03:52:30 <yigal> fare enough
Jul 05 03:52:39 <yigal> s/whol/&e
Jul 05 03:52:58 <Grackle_> You might be able to find a screen protector that decreases glare or something, but that's about it.
Jul 05 03:53:25 <yigal> Grackle_: yes, I was thinking about something along those lines
Jul 05 03:53:36 <yigal> Grackle_: plus dark sunglasses and an umbrella
Jul 05 03:53:54 <pupnik> oh i wanted to say something clever
Jul 05 03:53:56 <pupnik> what was it
Jul 05 03:54:07 <Grackle_> Oh sweet, this is the first time I've seen the update notification icon in diablo.
Jul 05 03:54:36 <Grackle_> It works nicely.
Jul 05 03:54:41 * Grackle_ Update All
Jul 05 03:55:22 <pupnik> can'tremember
Jul 05 03:55:31 <Navi> I have yet tsee it
Jul 05 03:55:35 <pupnik> but i did drop my n810 onto concrete and it survived
Jul 05 03:55:42 <Grackle_> hah
Jul 05 03:55:43 <Navi> s/tsee/to see
Jul 05 03:55:50 <pupnik> Navi you were doing some game weren't you?:
Jul 05 03:56:02 <Navi> was I
Jul 05 03:56:29 <Grackle_> I dropped my N800 onto a hard floor (linoleum tile over concrete), and the battery cover and battery went flying, but it was otherwise fine.
Jul 05 03:57:30 <derf> My N800 has taken some nasty falls onto hardwood at velocity (tripping over power cord, etc.), and is no worse for wear.
Jul 05 03:57:42 <Navi> I've dropped my N800 onto ceramic tile from waist high a few times
Jul 05 03:58:03 <doc|home> ^ not recommended
Jul 05 03:58:09 <Navi> s'all good
Jul 05 03:59:26 <yigal> I found this, so it seems not so bad, I'm definately purchasing an n800, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OEERQ0/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Jul 05 04:00:49 <derf> yigal: You want the Boxwave one.
Jul 05 04:01:31 <derf> Oh, wait, that is the Boxwave one.
Jul 05 04:01:43 <Navi> XD
Jul 05 04:02:45 <Navi> I've had the boxwave long enoughzto where I've forgotten that the N800 screen is glossy
Jul 05 06:05:51 <qwerty12> ~lart notepad++ for dodgy highlight and hurting my eyes at 7:00 AM
Jul 05 06:05:51 * infobot beats the living hamstercrap out of notepad++ for dodgy highlight and hurting my eyes at 7:00 AM
Jul 05 06:05:58 <qwerty12> infobot, thanks
Jul 05 06:05:58 <infobot> qwerty12: no problem
Jul 05 06:09:01 <RST38h> yawn
Jul 05 06:09:19 <RST38h> qwerty: I have got automatic x3 magnification working in VGBA
Jul 05 06:09:30 <qwerty12> RST38h, Brilliant! Thanks :)
Jul 05 06:09:55 <RST38h> also found a bunch of datasheets on OMAP if you are interested
Jul 05 06:10:19 <qwerty12> datasheets aren't my thing, I don't know much about low level hardware stuff :)
Jul 05 06:10:27 <RST38h> There is a complete datasheet on OMAP3 and also a complete pre-OMAP1 datasheet. Of these two, you can probably approximate OMAP2 :)
Jul 05 06:12:24 <qwerty12> Ok, [if -x] means if that file exists do this etc... but what's the one for saying if that file doesn't exist?
Jul 05 06:14:31 <RST38h> inverse of that
Jul 05 06:14:34 <RST38h> a moment
Jul 05 06:15:22 <RST38h> if !-x
Jul 05 06:15:28 <qwerty12> Thank you
Jul 05 06:41:26 <zap> lcuk: what you were meaning as "resolution"? Is this the physical screen resolution, or it's just the size of the buffer you're upscaling to 800x480?
Jul 05 06:47:57 <bex> does the n800 come with two memory card slots, or one?
Jul 05 06:48:10 <qwerty12> 2
Jul 05 06:48:52 <bex> hmm
Jul 05 06:48:56 <bex> why do i only see one?
Jul 05 06:49:17 <qwerty12> See one physically or software wise?
Jul 05 06:49:40 <bex> physically
Jul 05 06:49:44 <doc|home> bex: take out the battery
Jul 05 06:49:49 <bex> oh
Jul 05 06:49:57 <bex> is it under there?
Jul 05 06:49:57 <doc|home> yeah, they hid it :)
Jul 05 06:50:08 <bex> the other one is pretty hidden too
Jul 05 06:50:12 <qwerty12> Internal one is behind the battery cover, external slot is revealed when you open up the stand
Jul 05 06:50:28 <qwerty12> (I know, I had trouble finding the external one when I got my N800 :))
Jul 05 06:51:01 <bex> how come it doesn't eject? i had to use tweezers on the external one
Jul 05 06:51:16 <doc|home> because that'd take up more space
Jul 05 06:51:19 <qwerty12> You know that sd cards have a little ridge on the end?
Jul 05 06:51:28 * doc|home used fingernails
Jul 05 06:51:32 <qwerty12> ^
Jul 05 06:51:36 <keesj> but the fun only reall starts when you try to remove the one from the n810. I ended up attaching a tape to it
Jul 05 06:51:51 <qwerty12> Meh, the N800 battery was a nightmare to remove
Jul 05 06:52:00 <keesj> bex: but you first need to push it
Jul 05 06:53:00 <ShadowJK> anyone got any suggestion for /fast/ minisd cards to use with n810?
Jul 05 06:53:45 <bex> i am looking for one right now
Jul 05 06:53:54 <bex> trying to decide how big of one i need
Jul 05 06:54:14 <bex> how big is kde?
Jul 05 06:54:34 <qwerty12> Minimum needed is 2gb
Jul 05 06:55:18 <qwerty12> Shell scripts hate qwerty12.
Jul 05 06:55:38 <bex> is there anyway to use a non-bluetooth gps with it?
Jul 05 06:56:07 <qwerty12> Set up usbhost and insmod usbserial. I think one guy on here did it.
Jul 05 06:57:07 <bex> how does that work exactly?
Jul 05 06:57:43 <qwerty12> No idea, you end up getting a /dev/ttyS* device which maemo mapper.
Jul 05 06:57:59 <bex> what is that?
Jul 05 07:01:32 <bex> would i need a usb port on my gps?
Jul 05 07:07:35 <ShadowJK> hm, wikipedia says max transfer speed with *sd and SPI is 25mbit/s, I guess the card slots on N800/N810 use spi...
Jul 05 07:08:33 <qwerty12> Dunno about that but there is a kernel patch that enables a higher unsupported SD speed.
Jul 05 07:12:53 <bex> how is the brand PQI?
Jul 05 07:20:13 <zap> bex: if you mean a company that makes card readers & such, it's the cheapest sh*t I ever seen
Jul 05 07:20:27 <bex> yeah
Jul 05 07:20:33 <bex> cheap is why i was going to buy one
Jul 05 07:20:37 <bex> do you mean quality wise?
Jul 05 07:20:37 <zap> don't
Jul 05 07:20:40 <bex> ok
Jul 05 07:20:40 <zap> you'll regret :)
Jul 05 07:31:17 <bex> would this work do you think?  http://www.semsons.com/blbapafgaeta.html
Jul 05 07:36:14 <zap> bex: if you're asking me, I can't look right now - disassembled my mouse into pieces :)
Jul 05 07:36:29 <bex> why did you do that?
Jul 05 07:36:36 <bex> and i was asking whoever is listening
Jul 05 07:37:18 <bex> why is this channel so quiet with so many users?
Jul 05 07:37:43 <zap> because its a channel for busy people :)
Jul 05 07:37:52 <zap> but often its not so quiet
Jul 05 07:41:45 <acydlord> depends on the time of day really, since it's a global community
Jul 05 07:46:54 <qwerty12> Wow, tar is slow. Serves me right for using it under windows >.<
Jul 05 07:47:21 <zap> tar is fast
Jul 05 07:47:25 <zap> windoz is slow :-P
Jul 05 07:47:29 <qwerty12> I know :)
Jul 05 07:53:42 <yigal> derf: thanks for telling me that boxwave is a good product, was away for a few hours, sorry for not thanking you sooner
Jul 05 08:22:26 <RST38h> Backup time
Jul 05 08:22:38 <Saviq> guys, anyone successfully using a2dp with the remote control capabilities? I've got audio playing, but no way to pause / switch songs?
Jul 05 08:22:51 <Saviq> ~/.a2dpd is set up to use kagu -remote ...
Jul 05 08:22:52 <infobot> okay, Saviq
Jul 05 08:23:09 <qwerty12> infobot, forget that
Jul 05 08:23:09 <infobot> i didn't have anything called 'that' to forget, qwerty12
Jul 05 08:23:17 <qwerty12> heh :/
Jul 05 08:42:00 <GNUton> Hi
Jul 05 09:29:12 <RST38h> Hello Gnuton
Jul 05 09:29:32 <RST38h> Actually, wanted to ask: what is the magic trick to make navigation work in Maemo Mapper?
Jul 05 09:32:48 <pupnik> i'm gonna take a little trip
Jul 05 09:32:55 <pupnik> down paradise's endless lawn
Jul 05 09:33:00 <pupnik> they say that travel broadens the mind
Jul 05 09:33:05 <pupnik> til you can't get your head out of doors
Jul 05 09:33:11 <pupnik> elvis costello - god's comic
Jul 05 09:33:54 <yigal> how much should I be willing to pay for a near new condition n800?
Jul 05 09:35:01 <GeneralAntilles> yigal, where are you?
Jul 05 09:36:28 <pupnik> that is decisive
Jul 05 09:36:52 <pupnik> sometimes i think i've had deja-vu before
Jul 05 09:37:11 <bex> is that deja-vu deja-vu?
Jul 05 09:43:42 <pupnik> yeah
Jul 05 09:43:53 <GNUton> hey RST38h
Jul 05 09:46:25 <qwerty12> Ok, these are the cflags I'm using, any dodgy ones?:
Jul 05 09:46:26 <qwerty12> -mcpu=arm1136jf-s -mtune=arm1136jf-s -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -mabi=aapcs-linux -s -pipe -O3 -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fforce-addr -fforce-mem -falign-loops=2 -funroll-loops -msoft-float -fstrict-aliasing -mstructure-size-boundary=32 -fexpensive-optimizations -fweb -frename-registers -falign-functions=32 -falign-labels -falign-jumps -finline -finline-functions -funroll-all-loops --param max-unrolled-insns=60
Jul 05 09:47:02 <qwerty12> (all copied from this channel :P)
Jul 05 09:49:07 <RST38h> funroll-loops is unsafe
Jul 05 09:49:21 <qwerty12> Okie, thanks, removing now.
Jul 05 09:49:28 <RST38h> may also slow things down
Jul 05 09:49:41 <RST38h> at least on a meager ARM
Jul 05 09:50:17 <RST38h> same with unroll-all-loops - you definitely do not want it
Jul 05 09:50:17 <yigal> GeneralAntilles: In America
Jul 05 09:50:22 <RST38h> remove --param as well
Jul 05 09:50:34 <zap> -mabi too
Jul 05 09:50:47 <RST38h> yea, no need for mabi
Jul 05 09:51:05 <qwerty12> Ah, ok, thank you RST38h & zap
Jul 05 09:51:08 <zap> and -fforce-addr, -fforce-mem
Jul 05 09:51:16 <zap> no need to be smarter than -O*
Jul 05 09:51:18 <RST38h> what are force- flags?
Jul 05 09:51:35 <zap> those are enfoced by miscelaneous -Ox
Jul 05 09:51:40 <zap> various optimizations
Jul 05 09:51:49 <zap> basically everything that's safe is enabled with -O3
Jul 05 09:52:03 <zap> and if it's not enabled, I wouldn't recommend it - gcc developers know better than you
Jul 05 09:52:12 <RST38h> I would just leave floating point settings and delete the rest
Jul 05 09:52:16 <zap> -finline-functions could be a cpu I-cache killer too
Jul 05 09:52:19 <pupnik> are -O3 flags optimized for arm?
Jul 05 09:52:28 <zap> they are optimized for everything
Jul 05 09:52:31 <RST38h> It is known that floating point stuff has to be tweaked
Jul 05 09:52:35 <GeneralAntilles> yigal, personally, I wouldn't go over $200.
Jul 05 09:52:38 <pupnik> well then no, they are not optimized for arm
Jul 05 09:52:44 <RST38h> pupnik: it is an arm tool chain :)
Jul 05 09:52:55 <RST38h> so O3 is most likely optimized for arm :)
Jul 05 09:52:57 <GeneralAntilles> yigal, it depends a bit on the time you want to put in, though.
Jul 05 09:53:08 <GeneralAntilles> If you just want to get it _now_, then you may end up a bit over $200.
Jul 05 09:53:14 <zap> pupnik: every machine-specific code in gcc can override -Ox options and enable their preferred optimizations
Jul 05 09:53:17 <RST38h> A new one is $235
Jul 05 09:53:31 <RST38h> + shipping. So not sure if going over $200 is a good idea
Jul 05 09:53:33 <zap> I would assume gcc/arm developers know that
Jul 05 09:53:40 <GeneralAntilles> $299 at Amazon, RST38h.
Jul 05 09:53:45 <pupnik> ok ty
Jul 05 09:53:48 <RST38h> That is at Amazon
Jul 05 09:53:54 <GeneralAntilles> Where is your $235?
Jul 05 09:53:58 <GeneralAntilles> Nobody else has them in stock
Jul 05 09:54:10 <pupnik> i've seen -Os run faster than -O3
Jul 05 09:54:14 <zap> I also see no meaning to use both  -msoft-float and -mfpu=vfp together
Jul 05 09:54:29 <zap> pupnik: that happens not only on arm
Jul 05 09:54:36 <RST38h> GA: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=n800&btnG=Search+Products&cid=3395770308078996794&scoring=p
Jul 05 09:54:47 <RST38h> GA: One of them will definitely have it in stock :)
Jul 05 09:54:52 <zap> its because embedded devices likes small code (small CPU caches)
Jul 05 09:54:57 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I went through that list yesterday
Jul 05 09:55:03 <GeneralAntilles> bunch of fly-by-night retailers
Jul 05 09:55:03 <pupnik> 32kB data, 32kB instruction
Jul 05 09:55:06 <GeneralAntilles> I'll pass, thanks.
Jul 05 09:55:11 <zap> yep, damn little caches
Jul 05 09:55:24 <zap> PCs have 2-4Mb nowadays
Jul 05 09:55:30 <zap> and had 128k in the worst times
Jul 05 09:55:31 <RST38h> Well, even if we ignore Brooklyn ghost shops, there are still quite a few left
Jul 05 09:55:53 <kulve> zap: http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2008/05/17/gcc-options-and-floating-point/
Jul 05 09:56:00 <RST38h> Example: http://www.thenerds.net/NOKIA.Nokia_N800_Internet_Tablet.0276316.html?affid=8&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=0276316^~^NOKIA
Jul 05 09:56:37 <pupnik> i'm quite happy with performance on ARM, but there are a couple of emulators that are designed assuming those larger caches
Jul 05 09:56:45 <zap> kulve: <<Looks like the default for -mfpu is vfp and the default for -mfloat-abi is soft>>
Jul 05 09:56:47 <pupnik> particularly dosbox
Jul 05 09:56:56 <RST38h> http://www.despercia.com/nokia-n800.html?utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=Comparison+site&utm_term=Nokia+N800&utm_campaign=Nokia+N800 (I would call this one on the phone though)
Jul 05 09:57:23 <RST38h> pupnik: the cache thing - unavoidable in a lot of applications
Jul 05 09:57:49 <RST38h> pupnik: when CPU manufacturer tells you how fast his CPU is, always ask about memory bus performance and cache sizes
Jul 05 09:58:41 <RST38h> Because about 75% of really useful applications will require at least 512kB cache to run fast, OR fast SDRAM bus
Jul 05 09:59:10 <pupnik> yeah... our limit is mainly power consumption
Jul 05 10:00:31 <kulve> modern cpus start to use little power when the power management in the sw side works properly..
Jul 05 10:00:42 <RST38h> it is a trade off between power and memory speed, yes
Jul 05 10:01:17 <RST38h> kulve: you are forgetting that once you start something like dosbox, there is no way to use 'little power' as your cpu runs in a busy loop
Jul 05 10:01:44 <RST38h> So, the power management stuff mainly applies to situations where device is not doing anything anyway
Jul 05 10:02:46 <kulve> most apps are idle most of the time. Apps that aren't, needs to be fixed. I don't see why an emulator would be any different from that..
Jul 05 10:03:40 <kulve> ofc, e.g. playing video on a low end device like n8x0, will take all the cpu there is and then there's nothing one can do
Jul 05 10:04:15 <kulve> emulators tend to need also quite a lot of cpu power, but I'm not really familiar with them..
Jul 05 10:05:47 <kulve> but when playing e.g. oggs on n8x0 it's idle 80% of the time
Jul 05 10:10:50 <pupnik> sounds about right
Jul 05 10:13:09 <pupnik> i can't speculate about what circumstances might allow an emulator to go idle
Jul 05 10:13:59 <pupnik> but i'm quite sure they're so seldom that it is not worth coding-for
Jul 05 10:14:05 <sbaturzio> Aloha!
Jul 05 10:14:14 <pupnik> ciao
Jul 05 10:22:04 <yigal> GeneralAntilles: ok, then I will try to less than $220, not too much work for this price but not so bad either
Jul 05 10:22:10 <yigal> GeneralAntilles: thank you
Jul 05 10:22:22 <GeneralAntilles> Sure
Jul 05 10:22:40 <GeneralAntilles> Wish they hadn't discontinued it. . . . :\
Jul 05 10:22:51 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia really needs to always have a tablet in that price range.
Jul 05 10:25:31 <yigal> GeneralAntilles: I was shocked at the n810's price, couldn't stomache it but then I realized the n800 is almost as good, except for the glossy screen - which I can cover - so I am happy once again
Jul 05 10:25:42 <GeneralAntilles> Eh, the N800 started at $400
Jul 05 10:26:01 <GeneralAntilles> Really, $200 is a fantastic deal, and $350 is a good deal. ;)
Jul 05 10:26:53 <yigal> GeneralAntilles: I'm poor so I'm glad the n800 is around :)
Jul 05 10:27:03 <GeneralAntilles> and both screens are glossy
Jul 05 10:27:04 <bex> can anyone recommend a cheap bluetooth gps receiver?
Jul 05 10:27:12 <GeneralAntilles> The N810's is just transflective.
Jul 05 10:27:25 <GeneralAntilles> bex, get an MTK-based i-Blue or Holux
Jul 05 10:27:31 <GeneralAntilles> i-Blue 737 is nice
Jul 05 10:27:41 <bex> to use with my n800
Jul 05 10:28:01 <GeneralAntilles> or 770, or N810
Jul 05 10:28:03 <GeneralAntilles> Doesn't matter.
Jul 05 10:28:12 <bex> k
Jul 05 10:28:27 <bex> why those 2?
Jul 05 10:28:39 <GeneralAntilles> Because those are the best brands
Jul 05 10:28:44 <bex> oh ok
Jul 05 10:29:02 <bex> i didn't even know what these strange "gps receivers" with no display were when i first saw them
Jul 05 10:29:14 <pupnik> gotta run
Jul 05 10:29:45 <GeneralAntilles> Later, pupnik. :)
Jul 05 10:29:53 <bex> if i am going to be downloading maps, what size sd card do you think i'll need?
Jul 05 10:30:12 <GeneralAntilles> 4-8GB is in the good price range right now
Jul 05 10:32:14 <bex> well it only holds 8gb i believe
Jul 05 10:32:20 <bex> is that per slot or total do you know?
Jul 05 10:32:41 <GeneralAntilles> Er, the hardware can handle up to 2048GB
Jul 05 10:32:53 <bex> that's not what the nseries site says
Jul 05 10:33:03 <bex> oh i meant for the n800 not the gps
Jul 05 10:33:04 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, well, they don't know what they're talking about. ;)
Jul 05 10:33:21 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia just tested the N800 when 8GB was about the most available.
Jul 05 10:33:30 <bex> oh
Jul 05 10:33:34 <GeneralAntilles> It has SDHC support, so it supports anything SDHC
Jul 05 10:33:39 <bex> ok
Jul 05 10:33:41 <GeneralAntilles> Which goes up to 2048GB
Jul 05 10:33:42 <bex> that's good to know
Jul 05 10:33:55 <GeneralAntilles> You can drop two 32GB cards in there right now without issue.
Jul 05 10:34:05 <bex> wow
Jul 05 10:34:26 <GeneralAntilles> Assuming you have $300 to drop on two 32GB cards, that is.
Jul 05 10:34:28 <bex> yeah
Jul 05 10:34:41 <bex> i think i will have no use for my ipod now
Jul 05 10:34:54 <bex> well i guess it's smaller
Jul 05 10:36:20 <bex> is there any kind of wifi locator that works with os2008?
Jul 05 10:36:33 <bex> i tried using plazer but it didnt work
Jul 05 10:42:55 <fnordianslip> hi all.
Jul 05 10:43:34 <fnordianslip> after upgrading to diablo and buggering about with loads of stuf, i notice that canola2 has no text visible.  any ideas?
Jul 05 11:28:17 <tuukkah> where can i see an example of what i should and could have in sources.list on diablo?
Jul 05 11:30:11 <bex> how do you even edit sources.list?
Jul 05 11:30:13 <tuukkah> for example, i'm puzzled that there's no http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/free/
Jul 05 11:30:32 <GeneralAntilles>  /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list
Jul 05 11:30:33 <GeneralAntilles> http://pastebin.ca/1062953
Jul 05 11:30:33 <tuukkah> bex, you can use the application manager repository config, or a text editor like vi
Jul 05 11:30:54 <bex> yeah i had to do it through the application manager
Jul 05 11:31:01 <GeneralAntilles> Er, tuukkah, why?
Jul 05 11:31:07 <bex> it doesn't come with a default text editor , does it?
Jul 05 11:31:16 <tuukkah> bex, there's vi
Jul 05 11:31:22 <bex> k
Jul 05 11:31:42 <GeneralAntilles> tuukkah, that'd be deb http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo free non-free
Jul 05 11:31:42 <tuukkah> GeneralAntilles, i was missing a lot of packages and they're in http://repository.maemo.org/dists/chinook/free/
Jul 05 11:32:03 <tuukkah> GeneralAntilles, sorry, i meant such a uri doesn't exist
Jul 05 11:32:24 <tuukkah> (... returns 404)
Jul 05 11:32:56 <GeneralAntilles> This is what you're after: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/free/
Jul 05 11:32:56 <tuukkah> that's where i try to install nano and less from =)
Jul 05 11:33:16 <tuukkah> GeneralAntilles, extras seems to be different from non-extras, at least in the case of chinook
Jul 05 11:33:29 <GeneralAntilles> Non-extras is the SDK repo. . . .
Jul 05 11:33:47 <GeneralAntilles> [7:31am] <GeneralAntilles> tuukkah, that'd be deb http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo free non-free
Jul 05 11:34:34 <tuukkah> GeneralAntilles, that one for chinook works, but for diablo it gives a 404
Jul 05 11:34:52 * GeneralAntilles sighs.
Jul 05 11:34:52 <GeneralAntilles> http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/sdk/free/
Jul 05 11:37:04 <tuukkah> ok so /dists/diable/sdk corresponds to /dists/chinook ?
Jul 05 11:37:16 <tuukkah> plus /dists/diablo/tools - that's where nano seems to be
Jul 05 11:39:27 <tuukkah> how do i write that in sources.list?
Jul 05 11:40:26 <tuukkah> ok, deb http://repository.maemo.org diablo/tools free non-free
Jul 05 11:41:12 <GeneralAntilles> http://maemo.org/development/tools/
Jul 05 11:41:24 <tuukkah> found it, thanks
Jul 05 11:41:44 * lcuk is melting his head with svn
Jul 05 11:42:54 <tuukkah> looks good, now there's only the "(expected diablo but got )" warning
Jul 05 11:43:25 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody else notice an updated tablet-browser-daemon?
Jul 05 11:43:51 <lcuk> i havent even got diablo yet so thats unlikely
Jul 05 11:44:11 <GeneralAntilles> Well, you're obviously excluded from that question. :P
Jul 05 11:44:21 <lcuk> \o/
Jul 05 11:46:19 <crashanddie> lcuk, didn't you reflash a couple days ago ?
Jul 05 11:46:24 <bex> GeneralAntilles: what is the collabora repository?
Jul 05 11:46:32 <crashanddie> O HAI LCUK btw
Jul 05 11:46:38 <lcuk> no crashanddie, i thought about it when it was quiet
Jul 05 11:46:39 <GeneralAntilles> It's got the telepathy plugins for rtcomm.
Jul 05 11:48:14 <bex> is pidgin the best chat program to use?
Jul 05 11:48:24 <GeneralAntilles> Not in my opinion
Jul 05 11:48:28 <GeneralAntilles> big and bloaty and unpleasant
Jul 05 11:48:34 <GeneralAntilles> use the built-in one, instead.
Jul 05 11:50:51 <bex> but that one only uses jabber doesnt it?
Jul 05 11:51:04 <GeneralAntilles> and SIP and GTalk
Jul 05 11:51:06 <beavis> it doesnt
Jul 05 11:51:06 <bex> or google talk
Jul 05 11:51:07 <bex> yeah
Jul 05 11:51:11 <beavis> and and and..
Jul 05 11:51:13 <GeneralAntilles> but the collabora repo contains the telepathy plugins
Jul 05 11:51:13 <bex> not aim?
Jul 05 11:51:18 <beavis> aim too
Jul 05 11:51:27 <GeneralAntilles> So just install the appropriate plugins from that repository.
Jul 05 11:52:20 <bex> oh
Jul 05 11:52:23 <bex> is that what it does?
Jul 05 11:53:43 <bex> i don't understand what the telepathy plugins are for
Jul 05 11:54:33 <GeneralAntilles> They add services for rtcomm.
Jul 05 11:54:50 <bex> i guess i will find out in a minute
Jul 05 11:57:33 <bex> well i installed haze but i don't know what it did
Jul 05 11:57:38 <bex> i don't know what rtcomm is
Jul 05 11:57:44 <GeneralAntilles> account-telepathy-plugin too
Jul 05 11:57:51 <GeneralAntilles> It's the built-in chat framework. . . .
Jul 05 11:57:58 <GeneralAntilles> http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/
Jul 05 11:59:23 <tuukkah> i would add the sources.list lines to the new wiki, but i don't know where. any suggestions?
Jul 05 11:59:53 <bex> oh sweet
Jul 05 12:01:21 <crashanddie> ~curse g++
Jul 05 12:01:22 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, g++ !
Jul 05 12:01:44 <GeneralAntilles> tuukkah, don't.
Jul 05 12:01:52 <GeneralAntilles> Too user and version specific
Jul 05 12:02:05 <bex> what is the best program for video calls?
Jul 05 12:02:18 <GeneralAntilles> bex, depends
Jul 05 12:02:21 <bex> are any of them free to call a line?
Jul 05 12:02:24 <GeneralAntilles> rtcomm with GTalk, Gizmo or aMSN.
Jul 05 12:02:41 <bex> gtalk has video?
Jul 05 12:02:55 <GeneralAntilles> tablet-to-tablet
Jul 05 12:03:21 <bex> i thought i heard gizmo was free to call regular phones
Jul 05 12:03:44 <crashanddie> depends which country you're in, I guess
Jul 05 12:03:55 <bex> US
Jul 05 12:03:57 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, isn't it a bit early for you to be on IRC on a Saturday morning?
Jul 05 12:04:29 <tuukkah> GeneralAntilles, ok. thanks for your help!
Jul 05 12:04:47 <GeneralAntilles> Quite possibly, crashanddie. ;)
Jul 05 12:09:03 <bex> does anyone know if maemoscrobbler works with canola2?
Jul 05 12:10:33 <GeneralAntilles> Er, Canola2 has a last.fm plugin. . . .
Jul 05 12:12:05 <bex> oh
Jul 05 12:12:15 <bex> i did not see many options in it
Jul 05 12:12:44 <GeneralAntilles> It scrobbles.
Jul 05 12:12:48 <tuukkah> ouch, any workarounds for Bug 2772: Metalayer Crawler adds all oggs from Map application (with large CPU and memory usage)
Jul 05 12:12:57 <bex> yeah but where do you put in your login info
Jul 05 12:13:12 <GeneralAntilles> In settings, maybe?
Jul 05 12:13:22 <bex> nope
Jul 05 12:13:28 <GeneralAntilles> Yep.
Jul 05 12:13:30 <bex> maybe i have to find the plugin/
Jul 05 12:13:41 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, like I said, it's a plugin
Jul 05 12:13:43 <GeneralAntilles> It has to be installed
Jul 05 12:13:44 <bex> oh ok
Jul 05 12:13:46 <GeneralAntilles> It's in Extras
Jul 05 12:15:43 <kulve> tuukkah: not an easy one. You can open the metalayer's sqlite db and change the mime type
Jul 05 12:16:49 <kulve> tuukkah: https://garage.maemo.org/forum/message.php?msg_id=4089
Jul 05 12:20:21 <tuukkah> kulve, stopping metalayer crawler is "invoke-rc.d metalayer-crawler0 stop"?
Jul 05 12:21:42 <kulve> yeah, I think so
Jul 05 12:22:27 <bex> hmmm i still don't see it in settings
Jul 05 12:25:11 <lardman> "morning"
Jul 05 12:25:44 * lcuk passes lardman a brew
Jul 05 12:26:28 <lardman> not special- I trust :)
Jul 05 12:26:48 <lcuk> of course not
Jul 05 12:27:12 <lcuk> my eldest made me a coffee this morning and it was like water
Jul 05 12:27:40 <lcuk> hows your optimization coming lardman
Jul 05 12:27:55 <tuukkah> thanks kulve, a nice hack!
Jul 05 12:28:36 <lardman> lcuk: I've re-written the code to use a thread and shared memory, time to compile and see where the mistakes are
Jul 05 12:28:40 <kulve> tuukkah: np :)
Jul 05 12:29:07 <lcuk> its a shame its so blind, any luck in finding anything timing related
Jul 05 12:29:21 <lardman> lcuk: no, afraid not
Jul 05 12:29:27 <lcuk> booo
Jul 05 12:29:48 <lcuk> right, moving to 810 - youngest is wanting to play puzzlefarter
Jul 05 12:29:51 <lardman> lcuk: I might have to just run bits of code to test them, but it's time consuming writing a test harness which will feed in valid data, etc
Jul 05 12:30:35 <lcuk> yer i know that feeling - early on i had to find timing info.  have you considered posting to the dsp ML?
Jul 05 12:31:05 <lardman> lcuk: I didn't get much joy the last time I posted there
Jul 05 12:32:34 <lcuk2> thats abit of a shame, does ssvb know anything about the dsp, or otherrs
Jul 05 12:33:19 <lardman> ssvb has done some testing, kulve has too
Jul 05 12:34:40 <lcuk2> i wonder where all the dsp coders hangout
Jul 05 12:36:22 <lardman> they probably have to do some much during the day that they don't want to do any in their spare time :)
Jul 05 12:36:58 <lcuk2> lol
Jul 05 12:37:37 <lcuk2> isnt that the same with a lot of what we do
Jul 05 12:38:23 <lardman> well I don't do DSP programming for my day job, so perhaps I am willing to do it at other times
Jul 05 12:38:57 <lcuk2> im trying to get my head around svn at the mo
Jul 05 12:39:31 <lcuk2> i dont do anything like this in my dayjob, but would be more than happy to
Jul 05 12:40:02 <lardman> lcuk2: what do you need to know about svn?
Jul 05 12:40:07 <lardman> hi qwerty12_N800
Jul 05 12:40:19 <qwerty12_N800> hi lardman
Jul 05 12:41:09 <lcuk2> lardman, basically everything, im trying to learn whats needd without screwing up my own code or the garage repo
Jul 05 12:41:54 <lcuk2> ive made the mistake of playing with git first and am liking what i am seeing
Jul 05 12:42:34 <lardman> svn add, svn commit
Jul 05 12:42:39 <lardman> svn delete
Jul 05 12:42:43 <lardman> all pretty easy
Jul 05 12:42:49 <lcuk2> how do i tell it who i am
Jul 05 12:42:59 <lardman> you have to add the code to the repo first, then extract it somewhere, and use it from there
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 05 12:43:11 2008

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 05 12:43:32 2008
Jul 05 12:43:36 <sp3000> shouldn't it generally pick that up from login
Jul 05 12:43:39 <lcuk2> am on 810 sp its hard to grab
Jul 05 12:43:56 <lardman> https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=716
Jul 05 12:44:07 <sp3000> 'user' heh
Jul 05 12:44:12 <lardman> ah, doesn't say how to create it
Jul 05 12:44:58 <lardman> http://artis.imag.fr/~Xavier.Decoret/resources/svn/index.html for example, you want to import an existing project
Jul 05 12:45:37 <lardman> svn import /trunk/liqbase/ file://home/gary/liqbase/ -m "Initial import"
Jul 05 12:45:37 <sp3000> but I suppose it should pick it up from the login to the other end, no?
Jul 05 12:45:40 <lcuk2> yer sp3000, but im gonna need to tell it who i am.. ill read that when i get big machine back
Jul 05 12:46:06 <lardman> X-Fade: ping
Jul 05 12:46:25 <lardman> X-Fade: might be worth having a "how to get your code into SVN in Garage" page somewhere
Jul 05 12:47:02 <lcuk2> lol lardman, this would prob be easier if i had //n810/dev/liqbase available
Jul 05 12:47:13 <lcuk2> ive got tortoise on windows
Jul 05 12:47:36 <lcuk2> i think there is, its just the command line that scares me
Jul 05 12:47:55 <lardman> lcuk2: Windows? How do you compile? On the N810?
Jul 05 12:48:00 <lcuk2> yer
Jul 05 12:48:12 <qwerty12_N800> https://wiki.maemo.org/Getting_started_with_Maemo_Garage#Establishing_SVN
Jul 05 12:48:17 <qwerty12_N800> may help
Jul 05 12:48:22 <lcuk2> :) hence the difficulties
Jul 05 12:48:25 <lardman> Well you could probably find a GUI client for windows that makes life easier
Jul 05 12:48:57 <lardman> qwerty12_N800: thanks, I'd not seen that before
Jul 05 12:49:04 <lcuk2> but i cant find a free sshfs now can i get ummm network sharing working
Jul 05 12:49:21 <lcuk2> nor can i get
Jul 05 12:50:03 <lcuk2> i think its just ima hacker not a project manager
Jul 05 12:50:40 * lcuk2 knows his limits
Jul 05 12:50:42 <lardman> svn's worth it once you set it up, then you just type commit and up go your changes
Jul 05 12:50:44 <lardman> nice and easy
Jul 05 12:50:57 <lardman> pita to work out how to do it first time though :)
Jul 05 12:51:32 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk2, I think winscp does sshfs
Jul 05 12:51:41 <lcuk2> yer and not being able to spread around and play first is doubly unhelpful
Jul 05 12:51:55 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, stick up a wiki page?
Jul 05 12:52:13 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, qwerty12 linked it.
Jul 05 12:52:15 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: qwerty12_N800 just pointed out a page
Jul 05 12:52:19 <sp3000> this reminds me, I should learn to not suck at git
Jul 05 12:52:23 <lcuk2> qwerty, yes but not integrated as a windows drive that i can use tortoise on
Jul 05 12:52:34 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: I'll ask X-Fade to stick a link to that page on the SCM page in the Garage projects
Jul 05 12:52:52 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk2, ah, i see, i'll look around
Jul 05 12:52:57 <lcuk2> sp git was easy for me to setup and quick from the basic tests ive looked at
Jul 05 12:53:15 <sp3000> like, squashing away commits that turned out to be broken
Jul 05 12:53:43 <lardman> I think they are probably much of a muchness for these small projects with very few contributors
Jul 05 12:54:03 <lardman> The OE mailing list had lots of discussion about what to use a few years back
Jul 05 12:54:24 <lcuk2> well it seems logical and the repo is just self contained in the project
Jul 05 12:54:30 * GeneralAntilles guesses he doesn't have commit access to the adv-backlight svn.
Jul 05 12:54:33 * GeneralAntilles pokes rm_you with a stick.
Jul 05 12:55:05 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: So you going to come over for the Berlin do?
Jul 05 12:55:17 <GeneralAntilles> Highly unlikely
Jul 05 12:55:25 <tuukkah> are there better ideas than to have /home/user/MyDocs as a symlink to /media/mmc2/MyDocs? i don't quite see how the special dirs are supposed to be used
Jul 05 12:55:25 <lcuk2> boooooo gen
Jul 05 12:55:27 <lcuk2> apply
Jul 05 12:55:46 <GeneralAntilles> I don't want to get in the way of somebody who's actually going to be able to go.
Jul 05 12:56:18 <lcuk2> but gen, you have done a great deal of good in this community
Jul 05 12:56:30 <lcuk2> we all wanna buy you a beer
Jul 05 12:56:31 <GeneralAntilles> There'll be other get togethers. :P
Jul 05 12:56:37 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: We'll do a whip around for a passport
Jul 05 12:57:20 <lcuk2> isnt reggie american
Jul 05 12:57:29 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
Jul 05 12:57:38 <lardman> it's a long flight in a suitcase
Jul 05 12:57:38 <lcuk2> sneak in his luggage
Jul 05 12:57:43 <lardman> :)
Jul 05 12:57:46 <lcuk2> heh
Jul 05 12:57:53 <GeneralAntilles> Still doesn't fix scheduling. :P
Jul 05 12:58:52 <lcuk2> ok gen, i know it  conflicts with your furries conference, but for one year they will just have to find themselves another mascot
Jul 05 12:59:21 <GeneralAntilles> <_<
Jul 05 12:59:36 <lardman> lcuk2: I've got a conference that week too, I'll have to see if I can escape in time to go for a couple of days
Jul 05 13:00:33 <lcuk2> oooer lard,  its the fri/sat that maemo part is isnt it
Jul 05 13:00:47 <GeneralAntilles> 19th/20th
Jul 05 13:01:00 <lardman> yeah, I'm not sure if my conf finishes on Thursday or Friday though
Jul 05 13:01:53 <lcuk2> we wll just put a cardboard cutout of you and gen up on stage
Jul 05 13:02:28 <lcuk2> record your tracks and playback with an 800 head
Jul 05 13:03:03 <Atarii> is there a guide to compiling on the device?
Jul 05 13:03:04 <lardman> hmm, I'll have to think of something to talk about too
Jul 05 13:03:06 <Atarii> (for noobs)
Jul 05 13:03:27 <lardman> Atarii: ask lcuk2, he seems to like that sort of madness ;)
Jul 05 13:03:33 <lcuk2> at leasr this time i have something to say
Jul 05 13:04:11 <lcuk2> atarii, ill chat to you in a bit if you remind me, its tough on nit typing
Jul 05 13:04:35 <lcuk2> i still feel like a noob
Jul 05 13:04:57 <lcuk2> there is so mjch i still dont know and not enough time to learn
Jul 05 13:05:11 <lardman> that's life
Jul 05 13:05:21 <lardman> it's a case of choosing wisely
Jul 05 13:05:37 <lcuk2> ive got a load of partial modules needing my attention - liqbase as you have are just the stable element
Jul 05 13:06:49 <lcuk2> but i need to get it up on svn so others can try to do the bits i cant - packaging initially
Jul 05 13:08:12 <qwerty12_N800> packaging is quite easy :) (but I'm a dodgy packager so you know...)
Jul 05 13:08:32 <lcuk2> i alsothink ive found a way to add new modules without having to go to a central location to teach the app whats available
Jul 05 13:09:08 <lcuk2> ie to grow new features quickly without effecting anything else
Jul 05 13:09:50 <lcuk2> yer qwerty but on 810 i donthave all tools available
Jul 05 13:10:07 <lcuk2> hence the interest in andlinux
Jul 05 13:11:00 <Atarii> lcuk, it would be helpful to get a nudge in the right direction later on please, what i need to install to get started etc
Jul 05 13:11:15 <lcuk2> ok np
Jul 05 13:11:27 <Atarii> i can keep busy atm converting my "2in1" adapter so it fits in my 770
Jul 05 13:11:28 <GeneralAntilles> Isn't there an on-device sdk package, now, that'll get you started pretty well?
Jul 05 13:11:37 <qwerty12_N800> hmm, once you got a proper debian folder set up, you may be able to just dpkg-buildpackage off the device (not sure what deps would be needed though)
Jul 05 13:11:50 <lcuk2> it will help me as well, ill talk and document whwile im goiing it should be on the wiki
Jul 05 13:12:03 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk2++ ;)
Jul 05 13:12:07 <lcuk2> buildpackage isntt avail
Jul 05 13:12:40 <Atarii> im hoping to learn so i can compile the rt73 drivers on it
Jul 05 13:12:44 <lcuk2> gen, i need it documenting for when i change to diablo
Jul 05 13:13:13 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, it shouldn't be hard to compile :), if someone wont do it, i'll try later
Jul 05 13:13:18 <lcuk2> atarii, big projects dont work to well, there is no autoconf tools
Jul 05 13:14:00 <lcuk2> qwerty i gthink its the other deps
Jul 05 13:14:28 * qwerty12_N800 goes on debian packages to check them out
Jul 05 13:14:46 <lcuk2> autoconf was a killer for me, it wanteddto replace debiantools which would have vaped everything
Jul 05 13:15:28 <qwerty12_N800> remind me later, i'll hack up a package that doesn't interfere
Jul 05 13:15:45 <qwerty12_N800> (do you use diablo or chinook sdk?)
Jul 05 13:16:08 <lcuk2> at the mo im in chinook but that will change
Jul 05 13:17:47 <lcuk2> right, im gonna grab some breakfast, thanks for the chat guys at least i know i have some direction ill readback in a bit and followup on stuff
Jul 05 13:18:17 <qwerty12_N800> breakfast? :p
Jul 05 13:18:36 <lcuk2> heh
Jul 05 13:19:08 <qwerty12_N800> I see what you mean about dpkg-buildpackage, i could build the stuff but then you have busybox problem.
Jul 05 13:20:18 <lcuk2> ..
Jul 05 13:20:57 <lcuk2> i forgot i could walkaround with this
Jul 05 13:21:29 <lcuk2> ive never taken you lot around my crib before :p
Jul 05 13:21:39 <qwerty12_N800> :p
Jul 05 13:22:20 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk2, I always have my N800 in my pocket when I'm at home.
Jul 05 13:23:04 <lcuk2> i do as well but i dont useinternet normally i sketch and plan
Jul 05 13:23:58 <lcuk2> i lookd back through it all lastnight - im tempted to do microsketch twittering
Jul 05 13:27:26 <lcuk2> gen, how do you make sure you dont break it, ive got mine in a semihard pda pouch
Jul 05 13:27:52 * lcuk2 still curses missus for losing his
Jul 05 13:28:35 * lardman thinks of a fry up
Jul 05 13:29:17 <GeneralAntilles> Break it?
Jul 05 13:29:20 <GeneralAntilles> They're pretty durable
Jul 05 13:29:31 <GeneralAntilles> I don't keep my keys in that pocket for one thing, though.
Jul 05 13:29:35 <lcuk> im always afraid of walking into the corner of a desk with it
Jul 05 13:29:53 <GeneralAntilles> and I have the softcase it shipped with in my pocket all the time.
Jul 05 13:29:53 <lcuk> ive got a nasty couple of scratches on it
Jul 05 13:29:58 <GeneralAntilles> lol . . .
Jul 05 13:30:01 <GeneralAntilles> Learn to walk? :P
Jul 05 13:30:11 <GeneralAntilles> Screen faces towards my thigh, though.
Jul 05 13:30:15 <lcuk> :P
Jul 05 13:30:21 <lcuk> shit happens
Jul 05 13:31:15 <lardman> it's hard when you walk like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wippooDL6WE
Jul 05 13:32:41 <Atarii> classic
Jul 05 13:33:43 <lcuk> lardman :) typically english
Jul 05 13:33:54 <GeneralAntilles> I should probably uninstall the Flash 10 beta
Jul 05 13:34:14 <GeneralAntilles> it didn't fix the flash-lockups and managed to completely break YouTube
Jul 05 13:34:28 <lcuk> and you are right, my nokia would be deceased before to long
Jul 05 13:35:29 <lcuk> "i have a silly program, and i'd like to obtain a nokia grant to help me to develop it" ;)
Jul 05 13:37:21 <crashanddie> only one grant
Jul 05 13:37:22 <crashanddie> ?
Jul 05 13:38:21 <lcuk> crashanddie, :) start small
Jul 05 13:38:45 <crashanddie> and some guy at Nokia is going "ONE GRANT ??? YOU CALL THAT SMALL ?"
Jul 05 13:39:19 <lcuk> they dont know how many zeros it has yet, the beancounters will have a haertattack :D
Jul 05 13:39:35 <lcuk> and a heartattack as well
Jul 05 13:39:44 <crashanddie> heh
Jul 05 13:39:50 <crashanddie> now there's an idea
Jul 05 13:51:39 <t_s_o> do beancounter even have hearts?
Jul 05 13:52:18 <lcuk> t_s_o, yes, but they are typically made of stone
Jul 05 13:52:34 <t_s_o> hmm, explosives then...
Jul 05 13:52:35 <sp3000> what else would they count on a full moon
Jul 05 13:53:39 <lcuk> i think up until recently the best way to send shockwaves through a beancounter would be to tell them their codebase is being GPLed
Jul 05 13:54:26 <lcuk> right im actually going to cook my bacon now, ill b back later
Jul 05 13:58:16 <Atarii> i just had a bacon wrap
Jul 05 13:58:25 <Atarii> its like your my brother from another mother
Jul 05 14:00:45 <lardman> enough of the talk about bacon, it's disturbing my concentration, I'm being pulled to the kitchen....
Jul 05 14:02:04 * GeneralAntilles eats a tuna melt.
Jul 05 14:02:22 <lcuk2> lardman, what i want to know is why have you got 'bacon' setup as a highlight phrase in xchat :p
Jul 05 14:02:31 <lardman> lol
Jul 05 14:03:00 <lardman> I do a whois on every bacon phrase and work out how long it would take to get there :)
Jul 05 14:03:13 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
Jul 05 14:03:55 <lcuk2> lol
Jul 05 14:19:43 <pupnik> http://youtube.com/watch?v=N6vW2uWsro0  This Mortal Coil - Another Day
Jul 05 14:57:11 * lardman is feeling brain-fade
Jul 05 14:57:33 <lcuk> heh i just typed "arghhhhhhhh" for exactly the same reason
Jul 05 14:58:21 <lardman> I didn't think this shared memory sync stuff would take quite such brain power to work out the process
Jul 05 14:58:22 <lcuk> is it bad of me to consider waiting until i am with people at the summit to get hands on help sorting out the svn?
Jul 05 14:59:13 <lardman> install svn on your N810 and just follow the command line instructions?
Jul 05 14:59:22 <qwerty12> Pray?
Jul 05 15:00:30 <lcuk> i think it is lard, but the instructions talk about setting up proxy repos and not actually updating from where i dev
Jul 05 15:01:27 <lardman> ah, forget that stuff
Jul 05 15:01:40 <lardman> I develop directly in my local checkout
Jul 05 15:01:49 <lardman> with a backup of course :)
Jul 05 15:02:15 <lcuk> but lardman, wont that upset your mojo if other devs start working and you are part way through editing something
Jul 05 15:02:41 <lardman> perhaps, but it's not an issue atm
Jul 05 15:02:48 <lcuk> the proxy gives you the space to grab and see the changes to other locations without impacting your working layout
Jul 05 15:03:05 <lardman> well that's easy enough, you could do it manually
Jul 05 15:03:56 <lcuk> im sure it is, im just not that confident with it all yet. maybe i need more wine
Jul 05 15:04:31 <lardman> in the first instance it will only be you using it, so just give it a go
Jul 05 15:04:43 <lardman> hmm, wine
Jul 05 15:04:53 <lardman> need to drive later so best not :)
Jul 05 15:05:19 * lcuk pours you a virtual glass anyway
Jul 05 15:06:13 <lcuk> ok lardman :) ill give it a try and see if i can just configure and update directly
Jul 05 15:06:21 <lardman> cool
Jul 05 15:07:10 <lcuk> how did you tell svn who you are and stuff
Jul 05 15:08:15 <lardman> --username developername
Jul 05 15:08:31 <lardman> it will then ask for your password
Jul 05 15:08:39 <lcuk> but i dont have to put that in the command line each time
Jul 05 15:08:56 <lardman> only when you create or checkout for the first time
Jul 05 15:09:08 <lardman> after that it's saved in the metadata (hidden dir)
Jul 05 15:09:32 <lcuk> ok, as long as i can transfer myself to a big machine when i get funds to get one
Jul 05 15:10:39 <lardman> oh yeah, you can just abandon your checkout (after "svn commit"'ing any changes and check out somewhere else
Jul 05 15:11:34 <lcuk> i get the feeling im gonna break the internet today
Jul 05 15:12:03 <lardman> lol I was a bit worried that I'd knacker the svn server when I started
Jul 05 15:12:43 <lardman> ~lart segfaults
Jul 05 15:12:44 * infobot runs at segfaults with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut
Jul 05 15:14:55 <lardman> can I do this: while(*(sbc->input_flag)==1)
Jul 05 15:15:05 <lardman> where input_flag is a pointer to a short
Jul 05 15:15:10 <lardman> or do I need to do some casting?
Jul 05 15:15:33 <derf> No, that's fine as-is.
Jul 05 15:15:51 <lardman> hmm, my segfault must be coming from something else
Jul 05 15:16:00 <lcuk> might not be
Jul 05 15:16:03 <derf> What's the value of the pointer?
Jul 05 15:16:05 <lcuk> if the pointer is out of scope
Jul 05 15:16:23 <derf> Or of sbc, for that matter.
Jul 05 15:16:37 <lcuk> yer..
Jul 05 15:17:06 <lcuk> while(sbc && sbc->input_flag && *sbc->input_flag==1)
Jul 05 15:17:19 <derf> No, that's dumb.
Jul 05 15:17:23 <lardman> sbc must exist
Jul 05 15:17:34 <lardman> and it does, as the rest of the code works
Jul 05 15:17:38 <lcuk> i know, but it confirms each step is valid
Jul 05 15:17:43 <derf> You need to _understand_ why something might become NULL before you start throwing in random NULL checks.
Jul 05 15:17:45 <lardman> I'll output the values and see what's going on
Jul 05 15:17:52 <lardman> lcuk: will be slow too
Jul 05 15:18:20 <lcuk> i know it will be slow
Jul 05 15:18:45 <derf> Segfaults let you know that you don't understand something about your code. Papering over the symptoms is not the correct way to fix it.
Jul 05 15:18:48 <lcuk> those are simply all the things needing checking before using the single *==1 check
Jul 05 15:19:53 <lardman> out of interest, is *sbc->input_flag the same?
Jul 05 15:20:15 <lcuk> yes
Jul 05 15:21:12 <derf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations#Mathematical_precedence
Jul 05 15:21:23 <lardman> WaitForInputBuffer: sbc=3197269200
Jul 05 15:21:23 <lardman> WaitForInputBuffer: *sbc=0
Jul 05 15:21:23 <lardman> WaitForInputBuffer: sbc->input_flag=4294967295
Jul 05 15:21:38 <lardman> derf: thanks
Jul 05 15:22:22 <lardman> apparently a segfaul on the line which was to print the value of *(sbc->input_flag)
Jul 05 15:22:52 <derf> Suggesting it's not a valid pointer.
Jul 05 15:23:09 <derf> (and giving the lie to lcuk's assumption that anything non-NULL is valid)
Jul 05 15:23:41 <derf> Man, that Wikipedia list doesn't include the comma operator.
Jul 05 15:23:46 <derf> They should be ashamed of themselves.
Jul 05 15:24:24 <fnordianslip> isn't  4294967295 = -1 ?
Jul 05 15:24:40 <lardman> ah, might well be
Jul 05 15:24:44 <derf> Yes.
Jul 05 15:25:00 * lardman regrets not error checking his mmap call
Jul 05 15:26:43 <lcuk> derf, my original note said out of scope
Jul 05 15:26:58 <lcuk> not necessarily null :P
Jul 05 15:27:26 <derf> Sure... I'm just talking about the code you wrote.
Jul 05 15:28:10 <lcuk> yer it wouldnt have worked
Jul 05 15:30:02 <lardman> let's see what perror has to say about it
Jul 05 15:30:17 <macoute> do i have any means too make a videocall to a pc on n8x0?
Jul 05 15:30:39 <derf> If by "PC" you mean "Windows box", then yes.
Jul 05 15:31:33 <macoute> derf: and what do you mean by windows box? :) does that include linux/mac os too?
Jul 05 15:31:41 <derf> macoute: No.
Jul 05 15:31:55 <macoute> derf: why is that?
Jul 05 15:32:02 <lcuk> lardman, you said earlier that you take backups - isnt svn meant to be a method for managing your own backups as well
Jul 05 15:32:13 <derf> Because you have to download and install Nokia's special client application.
Jul 05 15:32:28 <derf> Which, AFAIK, is only available for Windows.
Jul 05 15:32:34 <qwerty12> Nokia have one?
Jul 05 15:33:10 <macoute> ok. i heard something about building the linuc-version of skype from sources would do the trick?
Jul 05 15:33:21 <lcuk> is skype os?
Jul 05 15:33:54 <macoute> linux ?
Jul 05 15:34:13 <lcuk> open source
Jul 05 15:34:16 <macoute> s/linuc/linux
Jul 05 15:34:28 <lardman> lcuk: probably, I just don't know how to use it well enough
Jul 05 15:34:31 <macoute> lcuk: afaik no, btw
Jul 05 15:34:53 <macoute> thats maybe wwhy i couldnt find anything frim google ;)
Jul 05 15:34:59 <derf> Oh, it's gone now anyway.
Jul 05 15:35:00 <lcuk> lardman :) sounds like how im gonna be working then
Jul 05 15:35:01 <macoute> damn typos
Jul 05 15:35:02 <derf> http://web.archive.org/web/20070819023102/http://videovoip.tableteer.nokia.com/
Jul 05 15:35:13 <derf> I never used it, so I had no idea.
Jul 05 15:35:18 <lardman> Error attempting to mmap: : No such device ah-ha
Jul 05 15:35:31 <derf> lardman: "Oops".
Jul 05 15:35:42 <qwerty12> macoute, dunno if you need microphone but aMSN does webcam iirc
Jul 05 15:35:48 <lardman> yeah, might make things a bit difficult :)
Jul 05 15:37:47 <lardman> not sure why though
Jul 05 15:42:48 <lardman> hmm, all caused by a missing symbol in the dsp task
Jul 05 15:43:23 <lardman> curious as the dsp task descriptor was checked
Jul 05 15:58:11 <RST38h> moo, all
Jul 05 15:58:32 <qwerty12> ello
Jul 05 15:58:32 <RST38h> lardman: so, any progress? =)
Jul 05 15:58:45 <GeneralAntilles> moof
Jul 05 15:58:50 <RST38h> qwerty: ehlo (c)sendmail
Jul 05 15:59:05 <lardman> RST38h: what with? SBC?
Jul 05 15:59:14 <qwerty12> RST38h, GPLed? :P
Jul 05 15:59:31 <qwerty12> (Or maybe not...)
Jul 05 15:59:32 <lardman> RST38h: in which case yes, just trying to work out how to get a DSP thread to sleep for some timeout
Jul 05 16:01:34 <RST38h> qwerty: bsd license afaik, but we are talking direct quote here!
Jul 05 16:01:54 <lardman> hmm, 33,000,000 system ticks at 330MHz should equal 100000 us?
Jul 05 16:02:07 <qwerty12> Hehe, they try anything on me, I'll get out the kitchen knife :P
Jul 05 16:02:23 <RST38h> lardman: do you want it to sleep or is busy loop ok on dsp side
Jul 05 16:02:44 <lardman> RST38h: sleep would be better really, busy loops are bad ;)
Jul 05 16:02:44 <RST38h> ?
Jul 05 16:04:33 <lardman> In fact I'm doing shorter sleeps and counting how many times I wake
Jul 05 16:04:39 <lardman> so I can time out
Jul 05 16:04:54 <RST38h> can you use ogg decoder as an example
Jul 05 16:04:54 <RST38h> ?
Jul 05 16:05:11 <lardman> as an example of what?
Jul 05 16:05:34 <RST38h> as an example of making dsp sleep of course!:)
Jul 05 16:05:58 <lardman> dunno, I've not looked at the timing code in that
Jul 05 16:07:13 <lardman> TSK_sleep(system ticks) looks like the answer anyway
Jul 05 16:07:40 <RST38h> aha
Jul 05 16:15:29 <RST38h> tsk tsk tsk sleep
Jul 05 16:21:55 <kkrusty> a general question; which editors do you use to develop for maemo?
Jul 05 16:21:59 <qwerty12> Is there an easy way to update the md5sums and Installed Size of a deb package instead of me running md5sum on each file and removing the location where the deb was unpacked and me guessing the installed side? :/
Jul 05 16:22:11 <qwerty12> s/side/size/
Jul 05 16:22:11 <infobot> qwerty12 meant: Is there an easy way to update the md5sums and Installed Size of a deb package instead of me running md5sum on each file and removing the location where the deb was unpacked and me guessing the installed size? :/
Jul 05 16:22:16 <GeneralAntilles> kkrusty, how about vim?
Jul 05 16:23:20 <RST38h> kkrusty: pico!
Jul 05 16:23:38 <RST38h> or nano
Jul 05 16:23:50 <kkrusty> GeneralAntilles: I should confess that I've been a VS zombie. I've gotten into the habit of having a debugger embedded into the IDE
Jul 05 16:24:11 <derf> kkrusty: You'll quickly get out of that habit.
Jul 05 16:24:25 <derf> Since there isn't a single one worth a damn.
Jul 05 16:25:27 <kkrusty> nano + gdb it is then.  About vim I find it hard to remember the keys
Jul 05 16:25:53 <GeneralAntilles> Print out a cheat sheet.
Jul 05 16:25:58 <derf> vim takes about 5 years to really get used to.
Jul 05 16:26:21 <GreyFoxx> Does nano do syntax highlighting ?
Jul 05 16:26:27 <RST38h> kkrusty: for a quick and dirty vs replacement try genie
Jul 05 16:26:45 <GreyFoxx> ViM is my editor of choice, and one of the things I like is the integration with ctags and the syntax highlighting
Jul 05 16:26:57 <GreyFoxx> and the fact that pretty much any *nix machine already has vi on it:)
Jul 05 16:27:15 <derf> Don't get me wrong, I love vim.
Jul 05 16:27:21 <derf> I wouldn't use anything else, personally.
Jul 05 16:27:25 <kkrusty> so do you mostly use gdb without a frontend?
Jul 05 16:27:29 <derf> But it does have a fairly steep learning curve.
Jul 05 16:27:57 <GreyFoxx> derf I agree, but I switched to only vi 11 years ago and it was hard for a week
Jul 05 16:28:02 <GreyFoxx> but after that it became habit
Jul 05 16:28:21 <derf> Sure, you can be _functional_ in a week.
Jul 05 16:28:24 <GreyFoxx> now I'm messed up using notepad so I have to install vim for windows :)
Jul 05 16:29:06 <RST38h> vi sucks
Jul 05 16:29:25 <derf> But I've been using vi for 14 years now, and I'm still finding out new things about it.
Jul 05 16:29:41 <GreyFoxx> def: true enough, Im always learning new things
Jul 05 16:30:41 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, get out of here with that pico/nano nonsense. :P
Jul 05 16:31:39 * RST38h has been using pico for 10 years now
Jul 05 16:31:40 <RST38h> it is better than vi - it has got Arrows!
Jul 05 16:31:55 <derf> Hahaha.
Jul 05 16:32:11 <yigal> RST38h: do you program in pico? :)
Jul 05 16:32:35 <GreyFoxx> The first time I had to fix a broken system, with no net connection to install another editor and literally 3 floors down in a concrete bunker was the same day I started learning Vi :)
Jul 05 16:32:36 <RST38h> weird how we have not got a single emacs  fanboy here
Jul 05 16:32:44 <RST38h> yigal: yes.
Jul 05 16:33:03 <derf> Emacs is even harder to learn than vi.
Jul 05 16:33:21 <pupnik810> emacs is crazy
Jul 05 16:33:31 * RST38h uses vi when there is no other chice though
Jul 05 16:33:47 <yigal> emacs is fine but it's too complicated
Jul 05 16:33:49 <yigal> for me
Jul 05 16:34:03 <GreyFoxx> emacs is an OS, not a editor, heh
Jul 05 16:34:49 <yigal> emacs is a way of life but then again some say this about vim and they could be right
Jul 05 16:34:53 <RST38h> I am not gonna believe any editor based on ai programming language - you never know what it is doing with your code
Jul 05 16:35:35 <RST38h> May be just counting braces, but may be attempting to breed too...
Jul 05 16:35:42 <yigal> it has a speach impediment it has a lisp
Jul 05 16:38:13 <lcuk> kkrusty, i use komodo edit in windows - ive got it configured to look like vs, and it feels like it as well.  no debugging but thats not important for me
Jul 05 16:38:17 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, that's fun, HP took down the drivers for my printer. :\
Jul 05 16:38:30 <qwerty12> ouch
Jul 05 16:39:00 <RST38h> Ga: that is their polite way of telling you to buy a new printer
Jul 05 16:39:14 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, thanks. :
Jul 05 16:39:30 <RST38h> If not you, who is gonna improve their q3 results?
Jul 05 16:40:29 <GeneralAntilles> My mouse is broken again, too.
Jul 05 16:40:30 <GeneralAntilles> Fun day
Jul 05 16:40:52 * RST38h is sitting in a train Moscow->Vilnius btw
Jul 05 16:41:20 <RST38h> So this connection is gonna expire any moment =)
Jul 05 16:41:38 <GreyFoxx> Some sort of
Jul 05 16:41:45 <GreyFoxx> GPRS or bluetooth to cellphone ?
Jul 05 16:42:01 <RST38h> gprs on a phone
Jul 05 16:42:05 <GreyFoxx> ahhh
Jul 05 16:42:22 <RST38h> it is e70 - easier to type on than n810
Jul 05 16:42:27 <GreyFoxx> heh
Jul 05 16:43:01 <kkrusty> lcuk: Well the rest dont have debugging either. Also how do you compile if you're on linux?
Jul 05 16:43:12 <kkrusty> *not on
Jul 05 16:43:23 <RST38h> 159km, still ticking...
Jul 05 16:43:32 <lcuk> what operating system does my n810 run?
Jul 05 16:43:38 <GreyFoxx> heh
Jul 05 16:43:49 <RST38h> lcuk: amigaos?
Jul 05 16:43:55 <lcuk> heh, i wish
Jul 05 16:44:11 <kkrusty> lcuk: so you send it there and compile it?
Jul 05 16:44:15 <lcuk> nai mean natively before someone fishes out the amiga emulator
Jul 05 16:44:26 <pupnik810> hehe
Jul 05 16:44:35 <lcuk> kkrusty, other way round, dev files are maintained directly on the device
Jul 05 16:44:38 <pupnik810> still needs a frontend
Jul 05 16:44:47 <RST38h> kkrusty: Have you read maemo sdk documentation?
Jul 05 16:44:59 <lcuk> when im out of the office so to speak i use khertans pygtkeditor :)
Jul 05 16:45:34 <lcuk> but with ssh i can edit on any machine and thankfully komodo is multi platform so im happy
Jul 05 16:45:36 <kkrusty> RST38h: I think I have.
Jul 05 16:46:09 <kkrusty> RST38h: not completely but what I know is that you can either develop with scratchbox or on the device
Jul 05 16:46:19 <RST38h> kkrusty: then you must know what debugging options are available?
Jul 05 16:46:51 <RST38h> you can develop in sb AND DEBUG  on the device
Jul 05 16:47:15 <kkrusty> RST38h: Yes I know that. I've been trying to have debugging work on Eclipse+SBox but that doesnt seem to work.
Jul 05 16:47:17 * lcuk doesnt like cross compiling - i would prefer an arm desktop
Jul 05 16:47:41 <RST38h> you can develop in sb and debug on an emulator but qemu sucks moose balls in terms of compatibility
Jul 05 16:47:59 <RST38h> kkrusty: ditch eclipse
Jul 05 16:48:03 <kkrusty> RST38h: so you need an emulator/device for debugging?
Jul 05 16:48:09 <qwerty12> lcuk, sbrsh sounds like your sort of thing but you need linux and a shitload of time and patience :/
Jul 05 16:48:17 <kkrusty> RST38h: thats exactly what I've just decided.
Jul 05 16:48:53 <RST38h> kkrusty: no there is a third option but it is also sucky
Jul 05 16:49:07 <lcuk> qwerty12, bleugh yer, its just another layer of complexity to an already complex system
Jul 05 16:49:26 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, get yourself a beagleboard when they come out.
Jul 05 16:49:41 <lcuk> kkrusty, trust your judgement, put plenty of debug messages in and deal with one problem at a time
Jul 05 16:49:56 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, i looked at linuxtag, they are quite spiffy
Jul 05 16:50:12 <RST38h> compile for maemo-x86 and debug
Jul 05 16:50:19 <derf> Hey, just be happy you aren't debugging on VxWorks.
Jul 05 16:50:21 <RST38h> anyways, pico+make+scp do it for me and I am used to debugging with printfs
Jul 05 16:50:35 <derf> Back when I had to use it, it didn't even have memory protection.
Jul 05 16:51:05 <lcuk> derf, since i started on this device i assumed there were no actual runtime debugging methods available
Jul 05 16:51:07 <kkrusty> RST38h: maemo-X86 sucks too?
Jul 05 16:51:16 <derf> One invalid pointer write and you'd have to reboot the whole board.
Jul 05 16:51:49 <lcuk> must be a bitch for the mars rover developers
Jul 05 16:52:10 <derf> And since nothing would actually crash when the original error occurred, it would take 8 hours to debug 20 lines of code.
Jul 05 16:56:28 <GeneralAntilles> keesj, you won a Beagle?
Jul 05 16:56:46 <GeneralAntilles> So did flo_lap and Kate Alhola. . . .
Jul 05 16:58:30 <pupnik810> bbl
Jul 05 17:00:02 <keesj> GeneralAntilles: yes
Jul 05 17:00:10 <GeneralAntilles> Hate you. :P
Jul 05 17:00:54 * keesj did get it yesterday
Jul 05 17:01:16 <keesj> I am happy soldering and building all from source " all so happy "
Jul 05 17:02:11 <GeneralAntilles> You gonna get Maemo going on it?
Jul 05 17:02:51 <Psykosis> Woot - got Milkytracker compiled and running on OS2008. :)
Jul 05 17:03:02 <Psykosis> Now need to figure out how the heck to make a deb file. lol
Jul 05 17:03:03 <keesj> I don't think so , there is already a OE based system for it.
Jul 05 17:03:54 <keesj> I want to be more bussy with lower level things (like jtag) and hardware
Jul 05 17:04:11 <keesj> So I guess I am going with the flow and see
Jul 05 17:04:45 <keesj> + there is no touch screen so hildon is not really what I want
Jul 05 17:05:00 <GeneralAntilles> Good point
Jul 05 17:05:30 <keesj> I will see if it make sence to use mamona on it.
Jul 05 17:06:13 <keesj> lardman was also requested at #beagle for his dsp twists
Jul 05 17:06:43 <lardman> keesj: What's that keesj?
Jul 05 17:06:52 <lardman> I should lurk on beagle?
Jul 05 17:07:13 <lardman> that I can do
Jul 05 17:07:56 <keesj> please do
Jul 05 17:10:37 <lardman> right, the buffer problems are sorted, now I just have to work out whether my loops & sleeps are on the same order of magnitude on the DSP & ARM
Jul 05 17:21:12 <lcuk> keesj, does the beagle graphics card support yuv, is it in need of some graphical bandaging or is it nice and quick
Jul 05 17:21:14 <lcuk> ;)
Jul 05 17:21:31 <Psykosis> Is there a good tutorial on how to make a deb package somewhere? The page on maemo.org is giving me a 403...
Jul 05 17:22:52 <yigal> Psykosis: this is the original it goes into depth http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
Jul 05 17:22:56 <lcuk> Psykosis, khertan has a maemo program called pypackager
Jul 05 17:22:57 <lcuk> http://khertan.net/pypackager/
Jul 05 17:23:09 <lcuk> it includes some good stuff and a link to what yigal just mentioned
Jul 05 17:23:21 <Psykosis> Excellent - Thank you. :)
Jul 05 17:26:23 <keesj> lcuk: I don't know
Jul 05 17:27:03 * flo_lap got it two days ago... and built an image with OE but no time to test it yet
Jul 05 17:31:28 <Jaffa> Psykosis: you might also find http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/ useful
Jul 05 17:35:22 <keesj> GeneralAntilles: what would you do with a BeagleBoard?
Jul 05 17:35:35 <GeneralAntilles> Nothing particularly productive
Jul 05 17:35:38 <GeneralAntilles> Most just play
Jul 05 17:35:44 <GeneralAntilles> s/Most/Mostly/
Jul 05 17:35:45 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Mostly just play
Jul 05 17:35:56 <keesj> like maemo :p
Jul 05 17:36:03 <GeneralAntilles> Yeppers
Jul 05 17:37:04 <lcuk> keesj, could it be used as a development environment for maemo: ie desktop system with keyboard display and native compilation without scratchbox of binaries for use in maemo?
Jul 05 17:39:02 <keesj> lcuk: do you develop under sbox / arm ?
Jul 05 17:39:17 <lcuk> no, i compile natively on 810
Jul 05 17:42:25 <keesj> lcuk: I don't think it would make sence no. you might aswell develop on the n810 in that case. even under sbox what happens is cross compilation
Jul 05 17:44:06 <Jaffa> keesj: presumably the larger display and keyboard would be the interesting things
Jul 05 17:44:14 <forge> :)
Jul 05 17:44:28 <forge> Maybe he has full screen kb in his 810 ?
Jul 05 17:44:37 <lcuk> keesj, im only thinking speed and i find the idea of an entirely virtual development process mind boggling.  its just extra layers.  the omap3 is much faster than my 810 and so would give a productivity boost
Jul 05 17:44:41 <forge> usb or some other, and then he's using some whacky usb display port :o
Jul 05 17:45:08 <lcuk> forge, no i use ssh to actually work on the files on windows (or any os handy) and when on the road use pygtkeditor on the device
Jul 05 17:45:20 <forge> :)
Jul 05 17:45:41 <lcuk> but now i have started to look at c++ compilation time is rising towards my frustration threshhold and im just thinking of a way out
Jul 05 17:46:01 <lcuk> and a £100 desktop replacement would be feasible
Jul 05 17:47:16 <lcuk> especially if the same binary could be built and tested on either device
Jul 05 17:47:19 <Jaffa> Presumably, if nothing else, you could use the armel Maemo SDK rootstrap in a chroot on whatever OS runs on the Beagle board
Jul 05 17:47:25 <Jaffa> Actually, that'd be very cool.
Jul 05 17:48:21 <lcuk> i might have to just bite the bullet and get a scratchbox thing setup, but it makes my head spin
Jul 05 17:49:42 <keesj> lcuk: as long as you don't write asm I think you should just develop under x86 with all the very nice profiling tools (valgrind)
Jul 05 17:50:12 <keesj> and cross-compile , specialy if you don't have to many weird depenencies
Jul 05 17:50:14 <lcuk> i write visual things which need the touchscreen
Jul 05 17:50:15 <RST38h> I am back!
Jul 05 17:50:22 <lcuk> i cant test and debug on x86
Jul 05 17:50:49 <RST38h> keesj: x86 is not the same as armel
Jul 05 17:51:39 <RST38h> cant debug lots of stuff there
Jul 05 17:51:52 <keesj> and profiling is not the same a guessing where performance problems are laying
Jul 05 17:53:06 <keesj> I you use hildon I guess that you need to use the sbox.
Jul 05 17:53:46 <lardman> hmm TSK_sleep() doesn't appear to return, ever
Jul 05 17:54:09 <keesj> RST38h: what kind of bugs are you talking about that don't happen on x86 and do on arm?
Jul 05 17:54:21 <lcuk> lardman, thats because its doing what you asked it to - maybe its waiting for another call in a seperate thread/process to wake it up
Jul 05 17:56:26 <lardman> lcuk: It should just sleep for x number of clock ticks
Jul 05 17:56:36 <lcuk> http://objectmix.com/dsp/301177-tsk_sleep-called-swi-routine-never-returns.html
Jul 05 17:56:58 <lcuk> TSK_sleep cannot be called from a SWI or HWI...
Jul 05 17:58:06 <keesj> but I must say that oprofile also looks very good
Jul 05 17:58:30 <lardman> lcuk: This is not a sofware interrupt handler
Jul 05 18:02:56 <lardman> hmm, this might be the show stopper though "TSK_sleep cannot be called from the program’s main() function."
Jul 05 18:03:21 <lardman> Where can it be called from then I wonder?
Jul 05 18:04:05 <lcuk> another thread?
Jul 05 18:04:11 <lcuk> anyway, rebooting for andlinux, back soon
Jul 05 18:04:26 <lardman> I'm in another thread already, but calling it from the main() of that thread
Jul 05 18:07:08 <lardman> I wonder if it's related to the clock() fn not working
Jul 05 18:08:58 <RST38h> keesj: x86 has different performnce profile, memory latency, it misses omap hw completely
Jul 05 18:08:58 <lardman> hmm, /* no CLK objs */ comment in avs_kernelcfg.conf doens't sound too promising
Jul 05 18:10:05 <RST38h> clock() (posix) is dependent on the system services
Jul 05 18:11:25 <lcuk> but if it exists and compiles it shouldnt return duff results surely?
Jul 05 18:11:34 <lardman> no idea
Jul 05 18:12:08 <lardman> I'll just try a proper busy loop
Jul 05 18:12:12 <lardman> food first though
Jul 05 18:18:25 <lcuk> lardman, is there a reason why you cannot use CLK_gethtime()   ??  http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/spru404n/spru404n.pdf  page 70 describes it and talks specifically about 2420
Jul 05 18:18:35 <lcuk> *for when you get back
Jul 05 18:23:07 <lcuk> jaffa, are you watching now or later
Jul 05 18:23:27 <Jaffa> lcuk: later. At in-laws. Will get off, erm, some sources I can't disclose - but are fully legal. Let's say my PVR.
Jul 05 18:23:57 <lcuk> bbc iplayer is even better - direct over flash about 10minutes after end of program
Jul 05 18:24:16 <lcuk> no waiting for download and quality is surprisingly high
Jul 05 18:24:17 <Jaffa> lcuk: this is like iPlayer, but from BBC R&D :)
Jul 05 18:24:47 <lcuk> nice
Jul 05 18:24:52 <lardman|cooking> lcuk: I'm guessing that clock() hides a call to one of those CLK_ fns
Jul 05 18:25:11 <lcuk> im still keeping my eyes open for a way to get it playing well on my 810
Jul 05 18:25:24 <lardman|cooking> lcuk: I'll try it out after supper though
Jul 05 18:25:34 <lcuk> lardman, it may well do, enjoy your mael
Jul 05 18:25:34 <Jaffa> lcuk: the iPhone-style hacks might present something which play back well on the N810. Not tried it, tho
Jul 05 18:25:35 <lcuk> meal
Jul 05 18:26:16 <lcuk> jaffa, maybe - id hope to simply watch the standard flash stream but thats a bit of a pipedream
Jul 05 18:26:19 <GeneralAntilles> HAVA works nicely.
Jul 05 18:26:51 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: is it all Windows PC based, or is it an online service?
Jul 05 18:27:01 <qwerty12_N800> Jaffa, The iphone one only works in mplayer in black & white >.< according to a post.
Jul 05 18:27:10 <Jaffa> qwerty12_N800: ah, fair enuf.
Jul 05 18:27:24 <GeneralAntilles> Setup has to be done on a Windows machine (or vm)
Jul 05 18:27:35 <GeneralAntilles> but it has a client just for the tablets.
Jul 05 18:27:37 <GeneralAntilles> http://myhava.com/
Jul 05 18:27:45 <GeneralAntilles> It's basically a slingbox
Jul 05 18:27:54 <lcuk> qwerty12_N800, black and white... that rings bells for me and makes me think the yuv is just being decoded incorrectly or intentionally ignoring the chroma components
Jul 05 18:28:47 <Jaffa> Oh, FFS. My mother-in-law's put it on in the dining room "to see what happened". After she talked all through last weeks and so I'm waiting until I can watch it in peace. And then she starts talking about a) who's in it, and b) that she'll turn it off when I go in. I'm not going anywhere *near* that TV :)
Jul 05 18:29:06 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
Jul 05 18:29:12 <qwerty12_N800> i'm pissed too about iplayer :(, i'd like to watch eastenders w/out resorting to transmission
Jul 05 18:29:21 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: so you need your Windows PC to be on?
Jul 05 18:29:41 <lcuk> qwerty12_N800, someone your age should not be watching eastfluffingenders (unless you want to see your mates in it)
Jul 05 18:29:42 <GeneralAntilles> Just for the first setup out of the box
Jul 05 18:29:51 <GeneralAntilles> It's completely independent after that
Jul 05 18:29:55 <GeneralAntilles> I used vmware. ;)
Jul 05 18:30:05 <Jaffa> So where's the media come from?
Jul 05 18:30:08 * Jaffa should read more
Jul 05 18:30:11 <GeneralAntilles> The cablebox
Jul 05 18:30:17 <lcuk> a settop box
Jul 05 18:30:22 <GeneralAntilles> It sits inline between the stb and tv
Jul 05 18:30:29 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, can't stop me now :p. been watching for *years*
Jul 05 18:30:37 <GeneralAntilles> IR blaster to control the stb
Jul 05 18:31:00 <Jaffa> Oh, right. I see. Hadn't realised/remembered it was h/w based.
Jul 05 18:31:16 <Jaffa> qwerty12_N800: I bet you watch Neighbours, too.
Jul 05 18:31:23 <Jaffa> Anyway, TV apparently off. Will risk eating food.
Jul 05 18:31:40 <lcuk> qwerty12_N800, all the good work you have done and such a promising future completely overshadowed by your fascination with dot cotton :P
Jul 05 18:31:51 <qwerty12_N800> Nah, neighbours never appealed to me.
Jul 05 18:32:12 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, i keep a picture under my pillow ^-^ ;p
Jul 05 18:32:20 <qwerty12_N800> *:P
Jul 05 18:32:33 <lcuk> *BLEUGH*
Jul 05 18:33:01 * GeneralAntilles pokes rm_you with a stick again.
Jul 05 18:33:10 <qwerty12_N800> Now that Jim's gone, I may get a chance... :P
Jul 05 18:35:24 <keesj> I have a deambox dm600 is any chance on streaming to the n810?
Jul 05 18:36:10 <qwerty12_N800> keesj, how is it? i've always wanted a dbox2.
Jul 05 18:37:51 <keesj> I must say it works better then I expected, I did spend one day flashing the thing. and getting it to work but now it works like a charm
Jul 05 18:38:15 <keesj> the nice thing is that I don't need a remote control any more as I can use the web interface.
Jul 05 18:38:19 <lcuk> does anybody know of a small garage project which is setup with proper debian folders (/src   /debian etc) which i could checkout and examine and use as a template for mine
Jul 05 18:39:19 <lcuk> all i can find are polar opposites: documentation on the layout or massive sprawling packages or incomplete/broken stuff
Jul 05 18:40:14 <keesj> I need to setup vlc on my machine
Jul 05 18:40:21 <keesj> (food time)
Jul 05 18:40:26 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, There's a few, adv-backlight and if you are feeling like a big challenge, mplayer.
Jul 05 18:41:11 <keesj> lcuk: I think my first project is still "nice" https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=62
Jul 05 18:41:14 <lcuk> well.... adv-backlight doesnt put into a /src folder and so im not sure what would happen
Jul 05 18:41:26 <lcuk> thanks keesj ill have a look
Jul 05 18:42:10 <keesj> but we all need to use mud :p
Jul 05 18:42:21 <lcuk> also, adv-backlight (rm_you read this..) has a tiny problem with its installation into sudoers - it just appends to the end, shouldnt it use visudo or whatever to handle locking
Jul 05 18:42:38 <keesj> so put the source in svn and aks mudders to package
Jul 05 18:42:42 <lcuk> we do, but if i get my project into proper debian stance i will be better in the longrun
Jul 05 18:43:26 <keesj> I am still a debian rookie so perhaps not such a good example after all
Jul 05 18:43:50 <lcuk> keesj, im looking around everywhere
Jul 05 18:44:02 <lcuk> you have something up and have used svn, you arent that much of a rookie
Jul 05 18:44:51 <keesj> lcuk: inz helped me the first day's
Jul 05 18:45:25 <keesj> this is the "structure" i made https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/home-applets/cosy-bookmarks/?root=cosy-home
Jul 05 18:46:54 <lcuk> keesj, im getting a great deal of help already and the more projects i get to look at the better i will be to understand how it all fits together
Jul 05 18:47:56 <lcuk> things still elude me, like how do i sort out binary versioning - im used to going to project properties and setting auto increment
Jul 05 18:48:46 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, if you don't want to append to sudoers, you can make a file in /etc/sudoers.d/ (we'll call it liqbase.sudoers) and put your sudo lines in there and call update-sudoers from postinst
Jul 05 18:50:10 <lcuk> qwerty12_N800, nice! thank you - i knew there was a proper way to do it.  this little nugget is being stored away
Jul 05 18:51:42 <lardman|cooking> hmm, #define TSK_sleep(nticks)       (SEM_pend(&TSK_timerSem, nticks))
Jul 05 18:51:58 <lardman|cooking> I'm not sure of the behaviour when a semaphore doesn't exist
Jul 05 18:52:16 * lcuk puts his hand up
Jul 05 18:52:27 <lcuk> lardman - i bet it will cause an infinite loop :D
Jul 05 18:52:47 <lardman|cooking> probably just sits there as it never increments
Jul 05 18:52:50 <lardman|cooking> :)
Jul 05 18:53:06 <lardman|cooking> #define TSK_time()              KNL_curtime
Jul 05 18:53:17 <lardman|cooking> looks more promising, at least for timing things
Jul 05 18:53:54 <lcuk> if the granuality isnt very high you could also do what ive done in the past... ive used household scales to accurately weigh 2pence pieces
Jul 05 18:54:01 <[A2K]> hi, it's me again.
Jul 05 18:54:08 <[A2K]> with more stupid questions :)
Jul 05 18:54:36 <lcuk> hi [a2k], we are here, and we have more stupid answers for you :)
Jul 05 18:54:46 <qwerty12_N800> hehe
Jul 05 18:55:14 * jott prepares his rubber chicken
Jul 05 18:55:21 <[A2K]> i tried to use default browser on n810. it is good and very comfortable to use, but is there some way to add firefox plugins to it? adblock, noscript, maybe vimperator?
Jul 05 18:56:18 <qwerty12_N800> ones that use xul can't be used on the n810 :(
Jul 05 18:56:40 <jott> adblock exists though.
Jul 05 18:56:55 <lcuk> using a backdoor hack
Jul 05 18:56:55 <jott> i had it on chinook but it was quite slow.
Jul 05 18:57:10 <qwerty12_N800> jott, iirc, that's managed with separate app
Jul 05 18:57:13 <lcuk> it tags itself to the page dom doesnt it
Jul 05 18:57:49 <[A2K]> :(
Jul 05 18:57:52 <Kegetys> some adblock i tried made the whole browser unbearably slow on all pages
Jul 05 18:58:20 <[A2K]> ok, so, maybe there is some another good browser?
Jul 05 18:58:22 <jott> http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/ well long time no new posts here
Jul 05 18:58:50 <qwerty12_N800> CSS + maybe hosts file works a lot better on the n8*0 than adblock
Jul 05 18:59:25 <bohawjes> hey, what is the best combo to use pc desktop remotely with nokia tablet?
Jul 05 18:59:26 <lcuk> depending on the router/intermediate hardware something like proximatron would be good
Jul 05 18:59:26 <jott> opera 9.5 would be spiffy ;)
Jul 05 18:59:31 <qwerty12_N800> jott, check the svn, they have some plug-ins they haven't released :)
Jul 05 18:59:35 <bohawjes> vnc viewer and some vnc server?
Jul 05 18:59:53 <jott> qwerty12_N800: not released => slow and broken as adblock?! ;)
Jul 05 19:00:11 <lardman|cooking> lcuk: Looks like the semaphore exists, but I assume nothing posts to it so it's never incremented
Jul 05 19:00:19 <qwerty12_N800> jott, dunno, haven't tried them ;)
Jul 05 19:00:31 <jott> bohawjes: if you connect to a windows host i would prefer rdp, other os like linux/osx vnc is the way to go
Jul 05 19:00:34 <[A2K]> i don't think that opera 9.5 will be compiled for maemo, they are closedsourse.
Jul 05 19:00:53 <bohawjes> ok, jott. i will try rdp. thanks
Jul 05 19:01:18 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N800 ++ CSS and hosts file is the way to do ad-blocking on the tablets.
Jul 05 19:01:42 <[A2K]> next question. it looks like n810 does not use HSDPA (only UMTS) when connecting using mobile phone (nokia e51). i get only 400-800 kbits per second..
Jul 05 19:01:55 <GeneralAntilles> It's DUN limiting.
Jul 05 19:02:07 <[A2K]> O_o is there some way to remove it?
Jul 05 19:02:10 <RST38h> what is wrong with adblock?
Jul 05 19:02:20 <GeneralAntilles> Er, "remove it"?. . . .
Jul 05 19:02:26 <[A2K]> remove this limit
Jul 05 19:02:27 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, it's slow as all get out.
Jul 05 19:02:29 <Jaffa> [A2K]: Bluetooth PAN, rather than DUN.
Jul 05 19:02:43 <[A2K]> Jaffa: nokia phones does not support PAN :(
Jul 05 19:02:49 <Jaffa> Really?!
Jul 05 19:02:51 <GeneralAntilles> [A2K], it's a limit of the protocol. You can't "remove it".
Jul 05 19:02:57 <lcuk> then get one that does
Jul 05 19:03:04 <[A2K]> Jaffa: i don't see PAN profile in my e51
Jul 05 19:03:30 <RST38h> motorola z10 should do pan
Jul 05 19:03:50 <qwerty12_N800> meh, never liked motos :/
Jul 05 19:04:03 <[A2K]> i just bought e51 today
Jul 05 19:04:07 <qwerty12_N800> pocket pc phones do pan
Jul 05 19:04:19 <lcuk> a2k, i thought features and profiles were at the behest of the phone provider, if you have a cheap payg phone the feature you request may simply be disabled
Jul 05 19:04:23 <[A2K]> and i sold my old wm-based glofiish x800 =\
Jul 05 19:04:35 <Jaffa> Sony Ericsson obviously best for non-Smartphones
Jul 05 19:04:46 <Jaffa> lcuk: not so much in the UK/Europe, but definitel in the US
Jul 05 19:04:49 <[A2K]> lcuk: provider can't diasble bluetooth PAN in phone...
Jul 05 19:04:52 <RST38h> glofish <-- deserves death
Jul 05 19:05:05 <[A2K]> RST38h: yes, they do
Jul 05 19:05:30 <lcuk> my o2 phone has 3g super quick modem inside but i cant get at it from outside
Jul 05 19:05:53 <lcuk> i always thought it was simply cos its a cheapy £40 layg
Jul 05 19:05:57 <lcuk> payg
Jul 05 19:06:08 <lcuk> :D layg phones are painted red
Jul 05 19:06:11 <Jaffa> lcuk: no, O2 don't have an HSPDA network
Jul 05 19:06:21 <lcuk> its got 3g though?
Jul 05 19:06:43 <qwerty12_N800> yes, they do have umts iirc
Jul 05 19:07:02 <[A2K]> can n810 connect to inetret by ad-hoc network? i think there is some software to make symbian phone wifi access point..
Jul 05 19:07:02 <Jaffa> Yes. OK, admittedly your *account* may not have 3G access enabled, but the phone itself won't have the feature disabled.
Jul 05 19:07:21 <GeneralAntilles> [A2K], get ready for 2-hour battery life.
Jul 05 19:07:22 <Jaffa> [A2K]: yes, ad-hoc wlan is supported
Jul 05 19:07:30 * RST38h alway thought umts was 3g voice and hsdpa was 3g data
Jul 05 19:07:30 <[A2K]> great
Jul 05 19:07:38 <RST38h> wrong?
Jul 05 19:07:44 <GeneralAntilles> HSDPA is 3.5G
Jul 05 19:07:50 <RST38h> oh
Jul 05 19:07:51 <Jaffa> RST38h: what GA said.
Jul 05 19:07:53 <GeneralAntilles> UMTS is 3G
Jul 05 19:08:02 <RST38h> ok
Jul 05 19:08:19 <[A2K]> afaik UMTS can transfer data on EDGE speed
Jul 05 19:08:31 <RST38h> is there some special name for 3g voice and data protocols?
Jul 05 19:08:44 <[A2K]> RST38h: UMTS :)
Jul 05 19:08:45 <qwerty12_N800> edge is slower then umts :/
Jul 05 19:08:57 <RST38h> if umts is data then how is voice called?
Jul 05 19:08:58 <Jaffa> EDGE is 2.75G, GPRS is 2.5G
Jul 05 19:09:04 <Jaffa> RST38h: UMTS
Jul 05 19:09:20 <RST38h> amps is 2g then?:)
Jul 05 19:09:28 <GNUton> :)
Jul 05 19:09:39 <GeneralAntilles> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_phone_standards
Jul 05 19:10:01 <[A2K]> HSCSD is 2G
Jul 05 19:10:40 <RST38h> ga: you are giving this url to somebody with 416x352 screen and a gprs uplink (no edge)
Jul 05 19:10:52 <RST38h> repent!:)
Jul 05 19:11:13 <GeneralAntilles> There's, like, 1 image.
Jul 05 19:11:21 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, should make for good reading then :p
Jul 05 19:12:11 <[A2K]> bluetooth PAN support is not enabled in nokia n810 by default. it is developed non-officialy. is it really good?
Jul 05 19:12:19 <GeneralAntilles> It works fine
Jul 05 19:12:23 <GeneralAntilles> It's just not well supported in the GUI.
Jul 05 19:12:35 * RST38h is rereading amber spyglass as we speak
Jul 05 19:12:48 <[A2K]> btw, can i install zsh or just normal bash?
Jul 05 19:12:59 <RST38h> was found on E: drive by chance
Jul 05 19:13:14 <qwerty12_N800> cept in Diablo where you may as well use ad-hoc for now
Jul 05 19:13:20 <qwerty12_N800> (bt-pan)
Jul 05 19:13:35 <GeneralAntilles> [A2K], nitapps.com for bash.
Jul 05 19:14:01 <[A2K]> added to bookmarks, thx.
Jul 05 19:14:18 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, love that series.
Jul 05 19:15:11 <qwerty12_N800> Any good? Been watching too much films, a book would be nice. :)
Jul 05 19:15:21 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N800, fantastic
Jul 05 19:15:26 <RST38h> yes, theyare very good
Jul 05 19:15:27 <GeneralAntilles> the series is easily on my top-ten list. ;)
Jul 05 19:15:39 <qwerty12_N800> Thanks, will check it out.
Jul 05 19:15:53 <RST38h> films are just hollow
Jul 05 19:16:09 <lcuk> well you could fill in the hole in the middle of the dvd
Jul 05 19:16:15 <GeneralAntilles> Films are a visual medium.
Jul 05 19:16:16 <lcuk> but i doubt thats the kind of hollow you mean
Jul 05 19:16:32 <GeneralAntilles> 2001 is a good example of something that really uses the medium.
Jul 05 19:16:43 <lcuk> and it uses the long
Jul 05 19:16:46 <RST38h> I do not even watch dvds...
Jul 05 19:16:58 * [A2K] looks at list of console stuff and gets shocked
Jul 05 19:17:35 * GeneralAntilles now has to watch the 2001 docking scene again. <_<
Jul 05 19:18:28 <lcuk> (open the pod bay doors HAL)  -   .                                                                 (==========
Jul 05 19:18:31 <[A2K]> one more question. is there some alternative to package manager? apt-get/apt-cache works fine and very fast, but default package manager i too slow
Jul 05 19:18:58 <lcuk>              .            (========== -(im sorry gen, i can't do that)
Jul 05 19:21:05 <[A2K]> omg
Jul 05 19:21:10 <[A2K]> it just deleted all repos
Jul 05 19:21:11 <[A2K]> O.o
Jul 05 19:26:05 <[A2K]> whre does it store sources.list?
Jul 05 19:26:14 <[A2K]> /etc/apt/sources.list is just blank
Jul 05 19:26:19 <[A2K]> but it has repos
Jul 05 19:26:25 <Jaffa> Debian & Ubuntu both now use /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ now.
Jul 05 19:26:33 <[A2K]> oh..
Jul 05 19:26:41 <Jaffa> Maemo the same.
Jul 05 19:26:58 * [A2K] is old-school user :P
Jul 05 19:28:27 <lcuk> bleugh, im gonna go play fro a bit
Jul 05 19:29:00 <GeneralAntilles> The problem with movies is that most filmmakers try to treat them like novels on film.
Jul 05 19:29:31 <GeneralAntilles> but film is a visual medium, so that doesn't really work.
Jul 05 19:31:21 <[A2K]> is there some way to disable light-off?
Jul 05 19:31:46 <[A2K]> i hate whan i read book and it just switches off lights
Jul 05 19:32:08 <[A2K]> no, i don't read too slow
Jul 05 19:32:37 <[A2K]> just learning few programming languages and reading books with lot of source codes.
Jul 05 19:32:59 <GeneralAntilles> Set the screen timeout insanely long?
Jul 05 19:33:16 <GeneralAntilles> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/moredimmingoptions/
Jul 05 19:33:20 <[A2K]> it can be set up to 2 mines (allready done)
Jul 05 19:33:33 <[A2K]> minutes*
Jul 05 19:34:39 <[A2K]> and i need good e-mail client. that default has much problems with russian encoding.
Jul 05 19:35:05 <[A2K]> (do not offer gmail please)
Jul 05 19:35:29 <bohawjes> does anyone here have a nokia tablet with "loose" touchscreen surface?
Jul 05 19:35:50 <GeneralAntilles> Er, as in, it wiggles around?
Jul 05 19:35:58 <GeneralAntilles> or it's slightly spongey?
Jul 05 19:35:59 <bohawjes> i mean that you can feel it moving when tapping etc. and it makes it almost impossible to use with fingers
Jul 05 19:36:07 <bohawjes> spongey is good word
Jul 05 19:36:14 <GeneralAntilles> I have 1 N800 like that
Jul 05 19:36:17 <GeneralAntilles> both of my 770s are like that
Jul 05 19:36:21 <[A2K]> ok, i think i got it. "dude, this is linux, if you want something - do it yourself" :)
Jul 05 19:36:28 <GeneralAntilles> Actually, I find the spongey N800 more accurate with fingers.
Jul 05 19:37:01 <GeneralAntilles> The wiki is soooooo slooooooow
Jul 05 19:37:11 <bohawjes> i have this 770, it's not usable with fingers at all
Jul 05 19:37:24 <bohawjes> i have to use nails if i don't have stylus available
Jul 05 19:37:34 <JamieBennett> Spongy is all to do with the type of touch screen, its pressure sensitive
Jul 05 19:37:51 <Grackle_> The 770 has quite a bit of squish, my N800 has barely noticable squish.
Jul 05 19:38:10 <GeneralAntilles> JamieBennett, not quite.
Jul 05 19:38:15 <Grackle_> Actually, I cannot detect any squish.
Jul 05 19:38:19 <GeneralAntilles> One of my N800s has no squish
Jul 05 19:38:22 <GeneralAntilles> one has lots of squish
Jul 05 19:38:30 <Grackle_> Hmm.
Jul 05 19:38:33 <bohawjes> yes, i thought this is normal, but i once tried another tablet in local nokia store.. it worked hundred times better with fingers and the screen was much more "tight"
Jul 05 19:38:47 <Grackle_> Does it have a grainier screen, similar to the 770?
Jul 05 19:38:55 <Grackle_> Or is the squishiness the only similarity?
Jul 05 19:39:37 <bohawjes> my screen is very spongey/loose in the bottom area of the screen. 1/3 from the top is working pretty nice with fingers and i don't notice any movement there
Jul 05 19:39:41 <JamieBennett> GeneralAntilles: I was refering to the fact that 'normal' touchscreens (as in glass type screens) use conduction rather than pressure so the pressure ones have some play. I understand that some may be defective and move too much though.
Jul 05 19:40:16 <GeneralAntilles> Grackle, no, the sponginess is the only similarity with the 770.
Jul 05 19:40:31 <GeneralAntilles> Either way, Nokia really needs to tighten up everything about their touchscreens.
Jul 05 19:41:01 <bohawjes> one thing which bothers me is, that the looseness of this screen makes it easy to scratch.
Jul 05 19:41:21 <GeneralAntilles> That's what screen protectors are for.
Jul 05 19:41:57 <bohawjes> yes, wish i had used those before :)
Jul 05 19:42:21 <bohawjes> virtual keyboard area is becoming very unsensitive and hard to use now
Jul 05 19:42:22 <Kegetys> hmm, is there some reason why the maemo browser doesn't support any kind of disk cache?
Jul 05 19:42:49 <qwerty12_N800> It can be enabled in about:config afaik
Jul 05 19:43:11 <Kegetys> it doesn't seem to work even after that
Jul 05 19:43:20 <Kegetys> about:cache says it only does memory cache
Jul 05 19:43:26 <GeneralAntilles> Slow flash write speed and flash life issues, I believe.
Jul 05 19:43:33 <GeneralAntilles> Either way, yes, there's a good reason.
Jul 05 19:44:14 * sp3000 finds the memory cache settings in the options ui quite amusing
Jul 05 19:44:42 <Kegetys> well I'd prefer to have the images etc. from sites I visit often to be cached on the disk rather than reloaded every time I close and open the browser again
Jul 05 19:46:12 <sp3000> anyway if you worry about flash wear you can always point the cache onto disposable media
Jul 05 19:46:57 <Kegetys> yeah I'd rather buy a new memory card every now and then than pay the bill to reload all the stuff over and over again
Jul 05 19:47:24 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, I updated the MUD wiki page to use the citation plugin, and fixed a URL.
Jul 05 19:54:21 <keesj> was the food good or did you only cook?
Jul 05 20:00:50 <sp3000> Kegetys: yeah I don't see anything landing in the disk cache with it enabled, capacity is defaut 50M, parent_directory set to an existing /media/mmc1/browsercache
Jul 05 20:01:21 <Kegetys> sp3000: yeah it's propably not compiled in at all
Jul 05 20:10:01 <sp3000> it can be configured out, yeah
Jul 05 20:10:07 <sp3000> oh wel
Jul 05 20:10:09 <sp3000> l
Jul 05 20:10:33 <[A2K]> i need a good build of wxmaxima with all dependencies. can someone help me?
Jul 05 20:11:28 <bohawjes> does fanoush's mmc speedhack make nokia 770 more stable, or am i wrong?
Jul 05 20:12:35 <GeneralAntilles> Well, if you combine it with swap, it might.
Jul 05 20:12:57 <GeneralAntilles> A large part of 770 instability is from memory constraints.
Jul 05 20:14:09 <bohawjes> i just though this, because i started to use that hack lately and my device has been much more stable after it
Jul 05 20:15:04 <JamieBennett> GeneralAntilles: Also the slow processor plays a part
Jul 05 20:15:29 <GeneralAntilles> JamieBennett, true, but oom situations are front and foremost for stability issues.
Jul 05 20:16:05 <lardman> dsp restarts also force reboot due to the fb being mapped
Jul 05 20:16:27 <JamieBennett> GeneralAntilles: Agreed, most of todays software on the Linux side benefit more from mem increases than from CPU ones
Jul 05 20:16:28 <lardman> while on the n8x0 they go un-noticed
Jul 05 20:17:00 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: yeah, ta for fixing that up
Jul 05 20:32:09 <yigal> $199 n800 on ebay I'm a happy man, although I still have to wait about a week for it to arrive :)
Jul 05 20:32:34 <JamieBennett> yigal: have fun!
Jul 05 20:33:19 <yigal> JamieBennett: thank you!
Jul 05 20:33:45 <lardman> aaargh, why don't my shared memory addresses match up!?
Jul 05 20:35:20 <ShadowJK> What is mmc speedhack? :-)
Jul 05 20:36:04 <qwerty12_N800> Is python-launcher only activated if magic line is #!/usr/bin/env python?
Jul 05 20:38:41 <ShadowJK> ah, google found it
Jul 05 20:41:47 <lardman> right, any thoughts what's wrong with these bits of code?: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m1db6df83
Jul 05 20:42:32 <lardman> the ARM & DSP sides refer to the same shared memory buffer, but for some reason only value pointed to at the start of the buffer can be read on the DSP side
Jul 05 20:47:01 <lcuk> lardman input_length = (unsigned short *)((unsigned long)shmem+1);
Jul 05 20:47:10 <lcuk> what are you attempting to do there
Jul 05 20:47:31 <lardman> static char shmem[MBUF_LENGTH];
Jul 05 20:47:34 <lcuk> shmem holds the address of the start of the allocated memory block
Jul 05 20:47:40 <lardman> is the shared memory region
Jul 05 20:47:47 <lardman> yes
Jul 05 20:48:44 <lcuk> shmem+1 is where where in memory
Jul 05 20:48:53 <lardman> in SDRAM
Jul 05 20:49:06 <lardman> it's shared by the MMU
Jul 05 20:50:20 <lcuk> no, i mean where in memory,  shmem starts at address 0x12341200 and continues for MBUF_LEN bytes.     (0x12341200 + 1)  is just indexing 1 byte into that array
Jul 05 20:50:24 <lcuk> that looks wrong
Jul 05 20:50:58 <lardman> that is right, 2048 16bit bytes worth of memory are shared
Jul 05 20:51:19 <lardman> so I'm pointing that variable's address one 16bit byte into that array
Jul 05 20:51:41 <lcuk> ahhh dont be sure
Jul 05 20:51:50 <lcuk> i tried this with the blit routine in liqbase
Jul 05 20:52:01 <lardman> oh, what's up then?
Jul 05 20:52:16 <lcuk> but because i had a variable declared as char * no matter what casting i couldnt make it jump over 2 or 4 bytes
Jul 05 20:52:28 <lcuk> all offsets were based on the original char
Jul 05 20:52:37 <lardman> ah yes, but char is 16bit on the dsp
Jul 05 20:53:09 <lcuk> so whats the ugly unsigned long casting for?
Jul 05 20:53:36 <lardman> I'm not sure quite how the DSP C compiler wants to guess, so I thought I'd be sure
Jul 05 20:54:34 <lcuk> char *memstart=shmem;             int16 *memstart16 = (int16 *)memstart;         printf("item0=%i",memstart16[0]);     printf("item1=%i",memstart16[1]);
Jul 05 20:54:43 <lcuk> perhaps something like that - at least to check
Jul 05 20:55:04 <lcuk> i ended up using similar in some functions to clarify i was doing as intended memory wise
Jul 05 20:55:27 <GeneralAntilles> lol http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=199672&postcount=104
Jul 05 20:55:28 <lcuk> its always hairy around casts
Jul 05 20:56:47 <lardman> char *memstart=shmem; sets the value of memstart to the address of shmem
Jul 05 20:57:25 <lardman>  int16 *memstart16 = (int16 *)memstart; then you cast it to a 16bit pointer
Jul 05 20:59:18 <lcuk> yes, doing it all as atomic blocks clarified it in my mind
Jul 05 20:59:36 <lcuk> that way i dont have to think about operator precidence
Jul 05 21:00:56 <lardman> even accessing shmem as an array from the DSP side I get shmem[1]=0
Jul 05 21:01:03 <lardman> where it ought to be 88
Jul 05 21:01:36 <ShadowJK> so, hm, does this "fanoush mmc speedhack" do anything on N810 Diablo?
Jul 05 21:03:09 <qwerty12_N800> kinda, there is a patch for N800/N810 but a diablo kernel hasn't been compiled with it. I'd do it but i'm busy with diablo android kernel.
Jul 05 21:03:49 <lcuk> lardman, print out the actual contents of the first arbitary amount of data from shmem[0] and [1] and [2])
Jul 05 21:04:04 <lcuk> dont try and use them as pointers, just see if the data itself matches
Jul 05 21:04:18 <lardman> lcuk: shmem[0:3] = {99,0,0,0}
Jul 05 21:04:42 <lardman> as array elements (shmem[x] and as pointers *(shmem+x))
Jul 05 21:05:57 <lcuk> are those direct from the actual data, because your code does extra cast to (unsigned short *)
Jul 05 21:06:43 <lcuk> ill brb, just got a stinky child to wash
Jul 05 21:07:17 <GAN800> ewgross
Jul 05 21:07:59 <lardman> yes, they were casted as the dbg() fn can only take a short as it's input, I'll try without the case
Jul 05 21:08:02 <lardman> cast
Jul 05 21:08:05 * GeneralAntilles pokes rm_you again.
Jul 05 21:08:24 <lardman> s/it's/its
Jul 05 21:08:33 <lardman> school-boy error
Jul 05 21:09:25 <GeneralAntilles> I just blame those on the fingers. ;)
Jul 05 21:09:43 <lardman> :)
Jul 05 21:10:25 * GeneralAntilles tries to find a decent look other than un-styled html page.
Jul 05 21:10:58 <keesj> try "under-construction" ?
Jul 05 21:15:19 <lcuk> lardman, was it a casting problem and is it solved
Jul 05 21:15:29 <lardman> no and no
Jul 05 21:15:31 <lardman> :)
Jul 05 21:15:35 <lcuk> lol
Jul 05 21:16:03 <lardman> I'm beginning to wonder if more than 16bits are actually shared
Jul 05 21:16:04 <lcuk> its a damn shame we havent all got dsp in a box to be able to throw loads of mud at it to help you
Jul 05 21:16:27 <lardman> ~lart DSP
Jul 05 21:16:28 * infobot gives DSP a good seeing to
Jul 05 21:16:36 <lardman> well, close enough hey :)
Jul 05 21:16:43 <lardman> if slightly rude
Jul 05 21:16:47 <lcuk> is this dsp stuff all open?
Jul 05 21:16:52 <lardman> yes
Jul 05 21:17:09 <lardman> but you'll need an x86 Linux box for the cross compiler
Jul 05 21:17:12 <lcuk> is the box you do the compilation from "clean" or is it just your general house computer
Jul 05 21:17:21 <lardman> my house computer
Jul 05 21:17:27 <zap> Why many packages install a link to their .desktop file in /etc/others-menu/ ? I don't see such a requirement in maemo-packaging-policy.pdf
Jul 05 21:17:31 <lcuk> damn, i wont ask you to make a vmware image from it then
Jul 05 21:18:05 <lcuk> though it would be a nice thing if a simple dsp dev image oculd be created
Jul 05 21:18:28 <lardman> it wouldn't be legally distributable though
Jul 05 21:18:55 <lcuk> hmmm, not open - what prevents it?
Jul 05 21:19:06 <lardman> Ti license agreement
Jul 05 21:19:28 <lcuk> ahh, but its all free i take it
Jul 05 21:19:57 <zap> free != redistributable
Jul 05 21:19:59 <lardman> free as in ... hmm, I never know the difference
Jul 05 21:20:07 <lardman> zap: yep
Jul 05 21:20:09 <lcuk> yer zap, i see
Jul 05 21:21:13 <lcuk> lard, you have a char *chmem;   on the dsp thats initialized,    printf("%i,%i,%i,%i",shmem[0],shmem[1],shmem[2],shmem[3]); gives what you said up there?
Jul 05 21:21:51 <lcuk> or have you only been printing the values from sbc->input_flag,   sbc->input_length, ...)
Jul 05 21:21:52 <lardman> yep
Jul 05 21:22:07 <lardman> though I have to cast each to short otherwise it returns 0
Jul 05 21:22:48 <zap> dsp understands exclusively int16 data type?
Jul 05 21:22:54 <lardman> I sometimes get {99,18,0,0}; I set the second value to 18 after displaying the data, so the memory is reused and unaltered (and the ARM doesn't overwrite it!)
Jul 05 21:24:33 <lcuk> lardman, which creates the original memory map and which uses it
Jul 05 21:24:53 <lcuk> ARM allocate then dsp use after, or the other way round
Jul 05 21:25:00 <lardman> the memory is shared, the ARM writes some ident values, the DSP tries to read them
Jul 05 21:25:31 <lardman> I don't know how the MMU does the sharing though
Jul 05 21:27:26 <zap> perhaps DSP just has access to the same address space
Jul 05 21:27:41 <zap> so the kernel dsp driver just has to translate virtual -> physical address
Jul 05 21:28:11 <lardman> yes, the SDRAM is mapped so both have access to the shared memory
Jul 05 21:29:04 <lcuk> the call to shmget needs an identifier to know which shared memory block to get
Jul 05 21:29:47 <lcuk> one side of the process must allocate the original block?
Jul 05 21:30:15 <lardman> DSP allocates the original, then ARM maps it with mmap()
Jul 05 21:31:01 <lcuk> thats: static char shmem[MBUF_LENGTH];
Jul 05 21:31:06 <lcuk> that you mentioned before
Jul 05 21:31:10 <lardman> yep
Jul 05 21:31:41 <zap> So nobody knows what use has /etc/others-menu/ ?
Jul 05 21:31:44 <lardman> hmm
Jul 05 21:31:52 <lardman> very strange effect
Jul 05 21:32:05 <lardman> looks like it's down to the size of the shared regions on both ARM & DSP
Jul 05 21:32:33 <lardman> if they are not the same (for example because one screwed up hex *0.5) it knackers everything
Jul 05 21:33:19 <lardman> even if the shared regions are vastly larger than the memory being accessed (2*1024*16bits total, I'm only looking at the first 512 8bit bytes or so)
Jul 05 21:33:32 <qwerty12_N800> zap, that's for debian
Jul 05 21:33:55 <lardman> my fault completely
Jul 05 21:33:56 <zap> qwerty12_N800: then why almost every maemo app creates a link in there?
Jul 05 21:34:40 <qwerty12_N800> oh, soz wrong one, it's if you want to use maemo-select-menu-location
Jul 05 21:34:56 <qwerty12_N800> https://files.maemo.org/nitro - password can be found but you can't do much :/
Jul 05 21:36:50 <zap> qwerty12_N800: don't you remember where that's documented? google gives lots of garbage, and nothing serious
Jul 05 21:37:29 <qwerty12_N800> zap, no sorry, but I'd look into the postinst of the package
Jul 05 21:37:51 <qwerty12_N800> i'm sure stuff gets done with it there
Jul 05 21:37:51 <zap> I'm looking, but I want to understand why this is done
Jul 05 21:38:01 <zap> and what the number means (like 0112_sylpheed.desktop)
Jul 05 21:39:29 <lcuk> lardman, i find all this dsp stuff fascinating and troubling at the same time.  i quite honestly believe there are dragons inside these machines
Jul 05 21:39:44 * GeneralAntilles needs a new desktop, now.
Jul 05 21:40:00 <GeneralAntilles> "Thar be dragons!"
Jul 05 21:40:09 <lcuk> zap, you asked me something at about 5am this morning but had left before i woke up
Jul 05 21:40:12 <lardman> hmm, film about dragons on now iirc
Jul 05 21:40:12 <lcuk> any idea what it was
Jul 05 21:40:28 <lcuk> which one
Jul 05 21:40:55 <ShadowJK> hm
Jul 05 21:40:56 <lardman> something about England being razed to the ground and some yanks coming and saving the day, usual make believe
Jul 05 21:41:05 <lardman> :)
Jul 05 21:41:07 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
Jul 05 21:41:08 <ShadowJK> does anyone know if there's a dct/idct that runs on the DSP?
Jul 05 21:41:23 <lardman> ShadowJK: yes there is
Jul 05 21:41:27 <ShadowJK> Oh?
Jul 05 21:41:42 <ShadowJK> do you know if it's in mplayer/lavc yet?
Jul 05 21:41:51 <zap> lcuk: 10:41:24 <zap>   lcuk: what you were meaning as "resolution"? Is this the physical screen resolution, or it's just the size of the buffer you're upscaling to 800x480?
Jul 05 21:42:04 <lardman> no, byt ssvb was thinking about it as a project
Jul 05 21:42:53 <lcuk> zap :) good thanks,   buffer is upscaled from (for instance) 640*480 to full screen, it works for various resolutions and is free to do (lcd hardware does it)
Jul 05 21:43:09 <lardman> ShadowJK: http://www.ti.com/litv/pdf/spru422i
Jul 05 21:43:11 <zap> but YUV12 only?
Jul 05 21:43:12 <lcuk> its exactly the same as changing resolution for playing games
Jul 05 21:43:30 <lardman> ShadowJK: and http://www.ti.com/litv/pdf/spru098
Jul 05 21:43:55 <lardman> ShadowJK: and probably this one too: http://www.ti.com/litv/pdf/spru037c
Jul 05 21:44:05 <lcuk> i believe it works nicer for the YUV mode i use is because its geared up to playing movies and essentially uses the TV channel on the display
Jul 05 21:44:08 <qwerty12_N800> zap, the only page which documents the menu stuff has disappeared of the net :/
Jul 05 21:44:25 <ShadowJK> btw, has anyone figured out where the bottleneck is in getting mplayer to play higher res? Is it CPU or bandwidth to the display?
Jul 05 21:44:26 <lardman> zap: upscales which whatever picel formayt
Jul 05 21:44:29 <zap> qwerty12_N800: thank you for looking, I didn't found it either :)
Jul 05 21:44:35 <lcuk> thats the way i read it all anyway, i might be wrong and its completely available (though unsupported in software) or rgb
Jul 05 21:44:47 * lardman really can't type any more
Jul 05 21:44:53 <lcuk> any more
Jul 05 21:45:02 <lcuk> i can
Jul 05 21:45:11 <zap> what API should be used to upscale RGB data?
Jul 05 21:45:22 <zap> (alt: does SDL use hardware acceleration for that)
Jul 05 21:45:22 <lcuk> omapfb :)
Jul 05 21:45:28 <zap> boo
Jul 05 21:45:33 <zap> something easier?
Jul 05 21:45:39 <lardman> look at mplayer source, or liqbase, and just change the format
Jul 05 21:45:51 <zap> mplayer uses YUV12 so it's not a prob for him
Jul 05 21:45:52 <lardman> format enum that is
Jul 05 21:46:02 <lardman> well just use a different one
Jul 05 21:46:07 <zap> and liqbase uses YUV12 as well, afaik
Jul 05 21:46:15 <lardman> it works with RGB from the DSP side
Jul 05 21:46:17 <lcuk> lardmanxv library does not support rgb
Jul 05 21:46:19 <lardman> upscaling, etc.
Jul 05 21:46:31 <lcuk> omapfb very likely does
Jul 05 21:46:36 <lcuk> well we know it does
Jul 05 21:46:52 <zap> I don't understand why everybody uses yuv12 if omapfb supports rgb? this is kind of strange
Jul 05 21:47:03 <lardman> lcd controller bandwidth limir
Jul 05 21:47:06 <lardman> limit
Jul 05 21:47:09 <zap> uqm port for example converts rgb to yuv12 just to make use of the scaler
Jul 05 21:47:18 <lcuk> rgb800*480 16bits per pixel is 800*480*2 bytes of data per page
Jul 05 21:47:21 <qwerty12_N800> zap, http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node14.html :)
Jul 05 21:47:23 <lardman> yes in which case omapfb is the way to go, that's what the DSP stuff links into iirc
Jul 05 21:47:40 <ShadowJK> YV12 is 12 bits per pixel, save 4 :-)
Jul 05 21:47:40 <lcuk> yuv800*480 16bits per pixel is 800*480*1 + 400*240*2 bytes of data per page
Jul 05 21:47:54 <lcuk> yuv800*480 24bits per pixel is 800*480*1 + 400*240*2 bytes of data per page
Jul 05 21:48:02 <lardman> zap: the conversion is done to get framerate
Jul 05 21:48:04 <lcuk> shat forget that one
Jul 05 21:48:05 <zap> qwerty12_N800: thank a lot, although it does not mention /etc/others-menu
Jul 05 21:48:28 <zap> got it, 12bpp vs 16bpp
Jul 05 21:48:33 * lardman goes to watch TV
Jul 05 21:48:47 <lcuk> night lard
Jul 05 21:48:55 <qwerty12_N800> zap, I think it can be called in two ways. the others-menu may be an old tradition
Jul 05 21:49:15 <zap> hmm, ok, so I can omit it :)
Jul 05 21:50:03 <qwerty12_N800> yep, http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/creating_a_debian_package.html
Jul 05 21:50:14 <qwerty12_N800> note it's for bora :)
Jul 05 21:51:44 <lcuk> doctor who time
Jul 05 21:52:14 <zap> qwerty12_N800: thanks a lot for help
Jul 05 21:52:25 <qwerty12_N800> np :)
Jul 05 22:01:01 <timelyx> qwerty12_N800: -ffast-math is evil. it literally violates math rules
Jul 05 22:01:15 <timelyx> if you're building something that does anything w/ math (e.g. mozilla) it'll crash
Jul 05 22:01:34 <timelyx> (and it's not the code's fault, it's the existence of an invalid optimization)
Jul 05 22:02:07 <qwerty12_N800> ouch, thanks for that, good to know
Jul 05 22:03:58 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/diablo.sources.list :)
Jul 05 22:07:13 <timelyx> jott: there should be a new post to browser-extras relatively soon
Jul 05 22:07:18 <timelyx> i reviewed it this past week :)
Jul 05 22:08:21 <timelyx> sp3000: disk cache isn't supported in microb in diablo
Jul 05 22:08:31 <timelyx> i've asked romaxa to please fix that <asap>, but ...
Jul 05 22:08:49 <qwerty12_N800> is that engine or ui problem?
Jul 05 22:08:52 <timelyx> my goal for the week is to ship w/ it pref disabled but configure enabled
Jul 05 22:09:10 <timelyx> we'd turn it on properly eventually... but i just want it at least avail as an opt...
Jul 05 22:10:32 <timelyx> qwerty12_N800: the existence of settings to control cache in the ui is a bug :)
Jul 05 22:10:42 <timelyx> but the fact that the engine doesn't support disk cache was a "feature"
Jul 05 22:10:49 <timelyx> we were "optimizing for size"
Jul 05 22:10:55 <qwerty12_N800> :/ :)
Jul 05 22:11:05 <timelyx> and even though i asked people to profile the feature... no one did
Jul 05 22:11:16 <timelyx> so nothing changed :(... i had hoped to change it before we shipped diablo
Jul 05 22:11:44 <timelyx> anyway, time to read my spam and find food
Jul 05 22:12:00 <timelyx> ~700 spams... yum
Jul 05 22:17:24 <kkrusty> the square button on the left of my n800 is blinking
Jul 05 22:18:43 <qwerty12_N800> it's showing you it's love
Jul 05 22:18:51 <qwerty12_N800> s/it's/its
Jul 05 22:18:57 <kkrusty> Its showing me that I have email :/
Jul 05 22:19:05 <kkrusty> scared the s*it out of me
Jul 05 22:20:10 <timelyx> you can turn that feature off
Jul 05 22:20:17 <timelyx> if you're me, you *must* turn that feature off
Jul 05 22:20:34 <kkrusty> timelyx: agreed. Thats what Im doing now
Jul 05 22:22:14 <kkrusty> I would imagine that this might've been a useful feature for someone who reads each and every email. I have about 200 unread ones
Jul 05 22:22:21 <qwerty12_N800> w00t, browserd died with signal 13
Jul 05 22:22:41 <timelyx> kkrusty: it's useful if you get 1 email per day randomly during the day
Jul 05 22:22:48 <timelyx> if you get a dozen every minute otoh ..
Jul 05 22:23:09 <Kegetys> server side spam filtering is a good thing :)
Jul 05 22:23:33 <timelyx> who said anything about spam?
Jul 05 22:24:19 <Kegetys> well, server side (whatever it is you dont care about) filtering then
Jul 05 22:24:24 <timelyx> although, i just found that a mailinglist subscribe request was marked as spam
Jul 05 22:24:26 <timelyx> "oops"
Jul 05 22:24:45 <timelyx> gmail search = anything i don't care about, i don't have to read yet
Jul 05 22:25:45 <Kegetys> doesnt gmail allow you to put the mailing list posts to a different imap folder, and dont auto-download those to the device
Jul 05 22:26:34 <timelyx> um, i don't know of a single MUA that can survive any of my mailboxes
Jul 05 22:26:37 <timelyx> so i don't bother
Jul 05 22:26:49 <timelyx> i tried a dozen or so MUAs over a year ago, they all failed miserably
Jul 05 22:27:33 <timelyx> and this wasn't posts. this was the "you must reply to this to subscribe"
Jul 05 22:29:05 <qwerty12_N800> Does anyone still have mc_4.6.1-2_armel.deb? komputika is down :/
Jul 05 22:33:55 * GeneralAntilles scratches his head.
Jul 05 22:33:59 <GeneralAntilles> Any ideas? http://pastebin.ca/1063311
Jul 05 22:34:15 <timelyx> use a faster pastebin =b
Jul 05 22:35:32 <GeneralAntilles> The nice thing about browsing maemo.org all the time is that it makes the rest of the internet feel way fast.
Jul 05 22:35:55 <timelyx> lol
Jul 05 22:36:27 <timelyx> 2. you know that alt= is a *mandator* attribute of img, right?
Jul 05 22:36:37 * timelyx sends the feds out to get GAN800
Jul 05 22:36:58 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, I removed it hoping it might change something
Jul 05 22:37:05 <GeneralAntilles> but alt doesn't have an effect
Jul 05 22:37:21 * GeneralAntilles throws his N800 out the window.
Jul 05 22:37:24 <timelyx> this is in a single page?
Jul 05 22:37:37 <timelyx> is this from an http server? (check logs?)
Jul 05 22:37:38 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
Jul 05 22:37:41 <GeneralAntilles> No
Jul 05 22:37:42 <GeneralAntilles> Local
Jul 05 22:37:52 <timelyx> strace :)
Jul 05 22:38:11 <timelyx> i assume the image is "tiny"?
Jul 05 22:38:17 <timelyx> seems strange...
Jul 05 22:38:45 <timelyx> in general, that's supposed to be coalesced as a single request w/ multiple observers by libpr0n
Jul 05 22:40:04 <qwerty12_N800> that lib always gets me
Jul 05 22:44:33 <GeneralAntilles> Well, that's about the strangest thing I've ever seen.
Jul 05 22:44:43 <GeneralAntilles> I guess I'll forget about the pretty .install arrow for now.
Jul 05 22:50:57 * timelyx goes to review another 100+ spams
Jul 05 22:53:46 <Psykosis> Anyone know why running an app via shell will close it "okay" however running it from the hildon menus causes it to just lock up on close?
Jul 05 23:28:02 <Atarii> anyone here?
Jul 05 23:29:44 <kkrusty> look behind the furniture. Everyones hiding :)
Jul 05 23:30:01 <GeneralAntilles> Just ceiling cat, and he's watching you fail at making that 770 not suck. :P
Jul 05 23:30:40 <Atarii> lol
Jul 05 23:30:45 <Atarii> you win GA
Jul 05 23:31:08 <Atarii> if i get this hob on monday, 810 upgrage is first on the list
Jul 05 23:31:11 <Atarii> job*
Jul 05 23:31:55 <Atarii> anyways, my question is, can i flash kernel only in windows? or just using the flasher3.0 in linux?
Jul 05 23:33:21 <GeneralAntilles> The Windows flasher doesn't support any cool features.
Jul 05 23:33:55 <Atarii> damn, that's going to have to wait until tomorrow then, as my laptop is packed away
Jul 05 23:34:06 <Atarii> hmm unless i can do it via vmware....
Jul 05 23:35:22 * kkrusty wonders whether the flasher would work on maemo linux
Jul 05 23:35:45 <kkrusty> of course it wouldnt without the sourcec
Jul 05 23:35:49 <kkrusty> *source
Jul 05 23:36:14 <GeneralAntilles> Meh, Nokia bundles a flasher now
Jul 05 23:36:25 <Psykosis> Does VMWare even support USB?
Jul 05 23:36:30 <GeneralAntilles> Psykosis, yes.
Jul 05 23:36:37 <timelyx> vmware works
Jul 05 23:36:49 <Psykosis> Ooo.. I must have missed that (runs off and plugs in a flash drive)
Jul 05 23:37:52 <qwerty12-N800> Atarii, fanoush has an on device kernel flasher
Jul 05 23:38:11 <Atarii> yea ive tried than befire and it broke it though :(
Jul 05 23:38:23 <Atarii> my typing sucks tonight
Jul 05 23:38:33 <qwerty12-N800> worked for me everytime :/
Jul 05 23:45:48 <ralann> i have flashed via vmware
Jul 05 23:51:31 <Atarii> ok here goes qwerty12-N800, on your head be it if it dies
Jul 05 23:53:24 <Atarii> woop
Jul 06 01:11:22 <crashanddie> ok
Jul 06 01:11:26 <crashanddie> not to be a bitch or anything
Jul 06 01:11:43 <crashanddie> but why the fuck have I been removed from the Maemo Summit Participants page ?
Jul 06 01:11:49 <timelyx> heh
Jul 06 01:12:46 <timelyx> can i complain that '-' is still showing up
Jul 06 01:13:26 <crashanddie> this is really not cool :/
Jul 06 01:16:42 <crashanddie> How to screw with a fucked up day: get gasoline splashed over your laptop, have someone you like move back to India to get *married*, and best of all, get simply *deleted* from the users at the Maemo Summit
Jul 06 01:17:05 <crashanddie> Not even have Nokia refuse the sponsorship, which I can understand, simply, *deleted*
Jul 06 01:18:16 <timelyx> file a bug about the last one
Jul 06 01:18:21 <timelyx> the others ... well...
Jul 06 01:18:27 <crashanddie> yeah right
Jul 06 01:18:30 <crashanddie> like it's a bug
Jul 06 01:19:23 <timelyx> it's a work task... requires investigation by a server admin
Jul 06 01:19:31 <timelyx> they fix my bugs :)
Jul 06 01:23:52 <crashanddie> lcuk_, you around ?
Jul 06 01:26:26 <Dekaritae> Just wondering, has anyone used one of these before?
Jul 06 01:26:27 <Dekaritae> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160258122913
Jul 06 01:28:25 <Dekaritae> The reserve price for these appears to be around $400
Jul 06 01:30:02 <yigal> Dekaritae: looks pretty hot
Jul 06 01:30:12 <Dekaritae> How so?
Jul 06 01:32:02 <Dekaritae> Well, it looked intriguing. But my choice right now is between the Samsung Q1 and the Asus R2H
Jul 06 01:32:24 <yigal> ? it has some nice specs and has a linux by default, I don't know I just bought a n800 that is enough for me
Jul 06 01:33:06 <Dekaritae> Yeah, I have an N800 but it's not sufficient. The best book reader lacks too many features and there is no decent PIM suite
Jul 06 01:33:18 <Dekaritae> I find myself carrying my Palm around instead
Jul 06 01:33:36 <crashanddie> Dekaritae, stick around for a bit
Jul 06 01:33:41 <crashanddie> Dekaritae, fancy new apps coming soon
Jul 06 01:33:45 <Dekaritae> Oh hmm?
Jul 06 01:34:19 <yigal> Dekaritae: I'm a command line user mutt, irssi simple tools on a terminal and n800 can provide this functionality for me, so it is enough
Jul 06 01:34:30 <yigal> for me
Jul 06 01:34:37 <Dekaritae> You mean "new and not GPE"?
Jul 06 01:34:55 <Dekaritae> I used those, and passed. mCalendar is a good start, though
Jul 06 01:35:09 <crashanddie> Dekaritae, http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI
Jul 06 01:36:17 <Dekaritae> crashanddie: My issue with fbreader is that it does not visually mark visited hyperlinks in document as "visited". This makes it unusable for me
Jul 06 01:37:02 * lcuk_ knows a calender would float really well
Jul 06 01:37:05 <crashanddie> add a feature request, or submit a patch
Jul 06 01:37:07 <lcuk_> a
Jul 06 01:37:16 <crashanddie> hey mate
Jul 06 01:37:26 <Dekaritae> Already have, no response
Jul 06 01:37:52 <crashanddie> lcuk_, you any idea why I got removed from the Maemo Summit registered participants page ?
Jul 06 01:38:12 <Dekaritae> I have the source for the maemo port, been meaning to poke a bit at it
Jul 06 01:38:13 <lcuk_> evening, nope just reading what you put now
Jul 06 01:38:37 <lcuk_> i hadnt looked at it since finding out i was going
Jul 06 01:40:24 <crashanddie> needless to say, I'm pissed
Jul 06 01:40:44 <yigal> hopefully drunk also
Jul 06 01:41:01 <crashanddie> ?
Jul 06 01:41:14 <yigal> pissed drunk
Jul 06 01:41:35 <yigal> sorry, I'm amusing myself, not intending to be at any body's exspense
Jul 06 01:42:28 <Atarii> lcuk_ you feeling chirpy?
Jul 06 01:42:58 <lcuk_> no unfortunatly, on very last legs before sleep, just spotted it binging
Jul 06 01:43:15 <yigal> can the stylus for the n8xx be mastered to get a reasonable typing speed, 30wpm or so?
Jul 06 01:43:17 <crashanddie> lcuk_, how's the garage getting along ?
Jul 06 01:43:42 <lcuk_> atarii, the repo you use to get gcc from is the same one that scratchbox uses
Jul 06 01:43:42 <crashanddie> yigal, frankly, I barely use the stylus for typing
Jul 06 01:43:58 <crashanddie> yigal, I have an n810 though
Jul 06 01:44:14 <Atarii> ok
Jul 06 01:44:16 <crashanddie> yigal, when I have to do extensive typing on it, I nick the bluetooth keyboard from the PS3
Jul 06 01:44:28 <lcuk_> once you have that its a case of installing the other things required, make and dev libraries
Jul 06 01:44:49 <Atarii> right, thanks
Jul 06 01:44:50 <lcuk_> if you cant find it ill give you more info tomorrow
Jul 06 01:44:57 <yigal> crashanddie: yes, I have just purchased 4 hours ago an n800, ok so is the stylus more or less useless for inputing keys?
Jul 06 01:44:58 <lcuk_> im off 2 bed
Jul 06 01:45:15 <crashanddie> lcuk_, night man, have a good one
Jul 06 01:45:20 <Atarii> ok cyas
Jul 06 01:45:21 <lcuk_> yigal, the OSK on 800 is very thumb friendly
Jul 06 01:45:28 <yigal> lcuk_: gnight
Jul 06 01:45:36 <crashanddie> lcuk_, btw, will you be flying out from London or Midlands ?
Jul 06 01:45:48 <yigal> lcuk_: I want to use the xterm quite a lot if possible
Jul 06 01:45:52 <lcuk_> would be manchester
Jul 06 01:46:05 <crashanddie> k
Jul 06 01:46:07 <lcuk_> yigal, get a bt keyboard then
Jul 06 01:46:11 <lcuk_> gnite
Jul 06 01:46:40 <crashanddie> yigal, I'd suggest getting a bt keyboard too if you want to type a lot
Jul 06 01:47:10 <yigal> hmm, so the stylus cannot be used via training etc. for a non-slow input tool
Jul 06 01:47:19 <yigal> it is slow that is?
Jul 06 01:47:38 <yigal> crashanddie: definately a keyboard
Jul 06 01:48:01 <yigal> crashanddie: but if I'm sitting under a tree philosophizing it would be nice to use the stylus rather than an external keyboard
Jul 06 01:48:21 <yigal> even if I'm getting on the order of 20wpm
Jul 06 01:48:33 <Atarii> maybe if you got REALLY good using the handwriting you could do it pretty quick
Jul 06 01:49:06 <yigal> Atarii: I like chop sticks, and it is kind of exciting for me to use a stylus for this purpose
Jul 06 01:49:18 <Atarii> as a chop stick?
Jul 06 01:49:54 <yigal> Atarii: well there are 2 of these that come in the box :) , no I'm just giving an example of dexterity exercises I find enjoyable
Jul 06 01:50:24 <yigal> the purpose being to use the stylus as a writing tool, like a pencil
Jul 06 01:51:00 <yigal> is 20wpm out of the question, 30, 40?
Jul 06 01:51:23 <timelyx> Dekaritae: i have a crash dump from a BSOD from a Samsung Q1 :)
Jul 06 01:51:36 <timelyx> it was only moderately fun to kill and took <<15mins
Jul 06 01:51:43 <Dekaritae> Unhn
Jul 06 01:52:17 <timelyx> sadly, i don't have dumps for nokia phones or ipod touches
Jul 06 01:52:39 <timelyx> even though i've killed a number of the former, and at least my coworker has killed the latter
Jul 06 01:52:49 <timelyx> but, that's because they don't seem to support public dump files :(
Jul 06 01:53:26 <timelyx> it's just a note about software quality and oom handling
Jul 06 01:53:39 <timelyx> the n800 ime seems to be considerably more robust
Jul 06 01:53:50 <timelyx> sure the browser will probably crash eventually
Jul 06 01:53:57 <timelyx> but usually the device itself isn't going to reboot
Jul 06 01:54:42 <Atarii> unless its a 770...
Jul 06 01:54:53 <timelyx> i did say n800, didn't i? :)
Jul 06 01:54:58 <Atarii> trudat
Jul 06 01:55:00 <yigal> Atarii: so the stylus can be mastered? :)
Jul 06 01:55:04 <timelyx> the 770s were indeed not so great wrt oom handling :(
Jul 06 01:55:25 <Atarii> i guess so yigal
Jul 06 01:55:46 <Atarii> i wouldn't like to use it for too long though, it's not the most comfortable thing
Jul 06 01:56:17 <yigal> Atarii: is it worse than writing on a small piece of paper?
Jul 06 01:57:30 <yigal> Atarii: don't answer I'll find out soon enough
Jul 06 01:58:23 <Atarii> hard to say as i dont use the handwriting function
Jul 06 01:58:41 <Atarii> although i should teach it, i guess it would be quicker than the kbd then
Jul 06 02:10:33 <Deka> Weird little Eee clone: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150264269557
Jul 06 02:11:21 <johnx> yeah, what the heck is an "xburst 32 bit"?
Jul 06 02:11:56 <chibiAcyd> knockoff of an xscale?
Jul 06 02:12:10 <johnx> that was my first though too
Jul 06 02:12:18 <johnx> interesting to put an ARM in such a big device
Jul 06 02:13:05 <crashanddie> and since when is processor different from CPU ?
Jul 06 02:13:20 <johnx> heh
Jul 06 02:13:25 <crashanddie> Linux 2.4 ? How is that an operating system ? That's merely a kernel, and an old one at that
Jul 06 02:13:37 <crashanddie> And there is no support for flash for 2.4
Jul 06 02:13:45 <johnx> I googled "jz430" and it's definitely embedded, but I still don't know the instruction set...
Jul 06 02:13:54 <chibiAcyd> yes there is, flash 6
Jul 06 02:14:07 <crashanddie> is that still even in use ,
Jul 06 02:14:08 <crashanddie> ?
Jul 06 02:14:18 <crashanddie> honestly... Flash 6... was about as powerful as a .gif ?
Jul 06 02:14:34 <crashanddie> "Network Access: ADSL"
Jul 06 02:14:35 <chibiAcyd> most sites require flash9
Jul 06 02:14:44 <crashanddie> erhm, so it has a xDSL modem included ?
Jul 06 02:15:07 <crashanddie> RAM: "4*32MB" is that some fancy pantsy way of saying 128 ?
Jul 06 02:15:31 <chibiAcyd> yeah
Jul 06 02:16:02 <crashanddie> johnx, it's RISC
Jul 06 02:16:54 <johnx> ok, that narrows out a couple architectures
Jul 06 02:17:10 <johnx> ah, wait RISC the architecture? as in MIPS?
Jul 06 02:17:55 <crashanddie> Think so
Jul 06 02:18:46 <crashanddie> "XBurst RISC instruction set to support Linux and WinCE"
Jul 06 02:19:02 <johnx> right, and this: http://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/Ingenic
Jul 06 02:19:08 <johnx> MIPS32
Jul 06 02:20:18 <crashanddie> That CPU is about as powerful as the one in the n8x0
Jul 06 02:20:22 <crashanddie> well, almost
Jul 06 02:20:25 <crashanddie> 336Mhz
Jul 06 02:21:01 <johnx> you really can't compare two different CPUs MHz to MHz
Jul 06 02:24:59 <crashanddie> anyway
Jul 06 02:25:02 <crashanddie> I'm out to bed
Jul 06 02:25:03 <crashanddie> cheers
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jul 06 02:59:56 2008