**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 30 02:59:56 2008 Jul 30 02:59:59 I'm from Beijing China. Jul 30 03:02:05 I'm setting up the cross-compiled environment according to the URL: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.1/INSTALL.txt Jul 30 03:03:49 I've done Step 2.1 Running installer. Jul 30 03:04:36 Only took Apple 2 weeks to get back to my with something besides a canned answer and it amounts to them telling me to use a browser compatible with the latest web technologies. Jul 30 03:04:45 Then they give me links for Firefox and Safari Jul 30 03:04:47 Helpful. Jul 30 03:05:42 Hi ChuangJiang, i'm ChengDu Jul 30 03:06:21 Hi, Spcui. Nice to meet you. Jul 30 03:07:14 I'm have problem with the Scratchbox, can you help me? TIA. Jul 30 03:07:27 you can set up the environment via manually Jul 30 03:07:42 ok, what's wrong with you Jul 30 03:09:10 At present, I've already installed Maemo by the Script. Jul 30 03:10:21 * GeneralAntilles starts the timer for Apple's next reply. Jul 30 03:28:44 So apple is like google, except they have worse support Jul 30 03:31:38 Probably has to do with the MobileMe fuckup. Jul 30 03:37:43 Yeah, each revision seems to be FAIL at first, but eventually is ok Jul 30 03:41:09 anyone know of an app that would lock and unlock my n810 when I open and close the keyboard? Jul 30 03:42:05 sadly its not some thing you can do with the defaut lock settings Jul 30 03:42:11 Look for autolock Jul 30 03:42:17 or something similar Jul 30 03:42:29 There's one that deals with the slide and one with the light sensor. Jul 30 03:42:43 okay thanks Jul 30 03:44:03 I like how they started with an automated canned answer to move on to a human-provided one. Jul 30 03:44:09 Holy crap it's hard to get a minisd card into this thing Jul 30 03:44:52 Sounds like a personal problem Jul 30 03:45:19 * Spaceman-N810 rolls eyes Jul 30 03:45:42 I used a pencap to get mine to click Jul 30 03:46:10 I finally got it Jul 30 03:59:44 Man, my battery meter is all f-ered up Jul 30 04:00:31 I love this thing, but i would never recommend it to the average consumer Jul 30 04:01:56 Makes sense, seeing as how it's not yet for the average consumer. Jul 30 04:02:10 s/yet/yet ready / Jul 30 04:02:10 GAN800 meant: Makes sense, seeing as how it's not yet ready for the average consumer. Jul 30 04:02:38 Step 3/5 Jul 30 04:03:00 Weird infobot thing Jul 30 04:07:39 found slidelock,although python is all screwed up on here so I can't install it Jul 30 04:07:45 gotta reflash Jul 30 04:17:52 http://winkde.org/pub/kde/ports/win32/installer/ Jul 30 05:25:57 Hi ! Jul 30 05:26:08 OMGHI2U Jul 30 05:28:29 Proteous killed Khertan. ;_; Jul 30 05:29:01 * Proteous cries Jul 30 06:21:22 where is the code just like Ctrl- on N810? Jul 30 06:22:06 uh? Jul 30 06:22:16 there is Ctrl on N810 keyboard Jul 30 06:22:29 and it is on the default terminal taskbar Jul 30 06:22:36 called Ctrl Jul 30 06:23:13 I mean the shortcuts Jul 30 06:24:21 just like Ctrl+S Jul 30 06:27:18 No body can answer me? Jul 30 06:29:29 * rmrfchik can't parse the question Jul 30 06:29:35 Error 2: sytnax error Jul 30 06:33:54 sorry about that Jul 30 06:36:29 Ctrl+S is just Ctrl+S Jul 30 06:36:31 :) Jul 30 06:36:48 or S with Ctrl modifier Jul 30 07:16:23 Hi ! Jul 30 07:16:27 Khertan: I'm checking your problem. Jul 30 07:16:45 Khertan: I resubmitted the package to see if it happens again. Jul 30 07:16:55 thx x-fade Jul 30 07:17:31 it s a package generated with tar, vi, md5, ls, and gpg :) Jul 30 07:17:48 lol :) Jul 30 07:18:04 based and the source in chinook repository Jul 30 07:18:04 :) Jul 30 07:18:08 s/and/on Jul 30 07:18:19 so i can't certify that all works :) Jul 30 07:22:19 ;_; Jul 30 07:22:34 ehlo, all Jul 30 07:23:56 RCPT TO: RST38h\nFROM: X-Fade\ndata\nHi :)\n.\n Jul 30 07:24:38 RST38h: Or didn't you start the conversation in mailserver speak ;) Jul 30 07:24:39 FIN/ACK Jul 30 07:24:47 250: Ok: queued ad 6666 Jul 30 07:25:24 Mhm...it was supposed to be "as", but "ad" also sounds relevant Jul 30 07:28:45 hey Khertan, can I ask you something about your packages? Jul 30 07:29:34 X-Fade > [2008-07-30 10:30:01] REJECTED: Error: Can't read from dsc file 'python-hildondesktop_0.0.2-1.dsc' Jul 30 07:30:24 Khertan: Yeah, it was too quick ;) Jul 30 07:30:57 Khertan: Second run was better although it failed with the same Size Mismatch error. Jul 30 07:31:46 arf Jul 30 07:31:52 bef0rd > yes of cource Jul 30 07:31:53 bef0rd > yes of cours Jul 30 07:31:54 bef0rd > yes of course Jul 30 07:32:01 grrr stupid keyboard Jul 30 07:33:38 X-Fade: BTW, I just got an email "page iNES - NES/Famicom Emulator has been commented by xuan thien (xuanthien123)" with a link to maemo.org, but the iNES page at maemo.org/downloads does not appear to be commented Jul 30 07:33:52 Is it a bug, a feature, or a temporary glitch? Jul 30 07:34:01 RST38h: Try the https version? Jul 30 07:34:17 RST38h: I guess you are looking at a cached page. Jul 30 07:34:35 I may be (behind a proxy) Jul 30 07:35:01 RST38h: No, our http version is cached by a squid cache. So it takes a while to see a new page. Jul 30 07:35:30 Loaded https - still no coconut Jul 30 07:35:37 RST38h: Or you can just add some random things after the url. Like ?bla Jul 30 07:35:46 RST38h: Ok, which url? Jul 30 07:36:15 Khertan, I've just flashed with diablo, and was checking your home* applets. they seem to depend on a lot of things, i.e., why does the homecepuspeed depends on python-bluez and mcalendar? Jul 30 07:36:59 s/homecepuspeed/homecpuspeed/ Jul 30 07:36:59 bef0rd meant: Khertan, I've just flashed with diablo, and was checking your home* applets. they seem to depend on a lot of things, i.e., why does the homecpuspeed depends on python-bluez and mcalendar? Jul 30 07:37:58 python-bluez ? Jul 30 07:38:08 gnie ? Jul 30 07:38:30 hum ... maybe a depandancies of python2.5-runtime Jul 30 07:38:46 and for mCalendar ... this is an error :) Jul 30 07:38:55 yea, that's between the dependencies that the Application Manager lists Jul 30 07:40:06 i ll correct it, and add depandancy to python-hildondesktop as i ve believe it was in python-hildon but this is not the case Jul 30 07:41:11 hum ... mContacts sync progress ... i can now get all contacts name and email ! Jul 30 07:42:15 Khertan, oh, yea, it seems like python2.5-bluez is part of python2.5-runtime, I've just checked with another package Jul 30 07:42:32 :) Jul 30 07:51:45 jott: ping Jul 30 07:54:54 Morning, all Jul 30 07:55:42 Jaffa > Hi ! Jul 30 07:56:01 Jaffa > on saturday you made a session of packaging with mud Jul 30 07:56:35 do you think it s possible after your session to made a little one explaining packaging source packages with py2deb.py Jul 30 07:56:50 to upload them to extras-devel ? Jul 30 07:57:21 Khertan: It would be good to have a packaging track anyway. Jul 30 07:58:44 packaging track ? (sorry i don't understand the mean) Jul 30 07:59:13 Khertan: Multiple sessions with the same theme. Jul 30 07:59:29 ah oki ... Jul 30 07:59:49 yes it ll be good to do this in the same session Jul 30 08:03:28 logo question: do you guys think the logo should explicitly _not_ reference wireless? or pda associations? Jul 30 08:04:37 qgil you just missed me ask : logo question: do you guys think the logo should explicitly _not_ reference wireless? or pda associations? Jul 30 08:04:54 hi testing testing accessing through web interface Jul 30 08:05:16 seems to work Jul 30 08:05:55 did you get my question? (I sent that moments after the irc notify - edge case) Jul 30 08:06:01 http://www.mibbit.com/ just saved me from ssh tunneling, double wireless connections and whatnot Jul 30 08:06:54 lbt: I'm not involved in the logo selection - see who is in carge at https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint3 :) Jul 30 08:07:12 but you are in the community Jul 30 08:07:21 I value your opinion... (I'm a judge) Jul 30 08:07:46 and everyone elses... (if they care - HEY WAKE UP) Jul 30 08:07:47 what is a "pd Jul 30 08:07:58 pda Jul 30 08:08:09 it seems the web interface may have glitches Jul 30 08:09:03 what is a "pda association"? Jul 30 08:09:20 an association with a personal digital organiser Jul 30 08:09:33 ie including concepts such as a stylus in the logo Jul 30 08:09:41 I know what "pda" is, I mean how you associate to that concept in a logo Jul 30 08:09:54 the wireless association is clear, you put those waves and there you go Jul 30 08:10:04 url example of a logo with a pda association? Jul 30 08:10:10 ahhhh stylus Jul 30 08:10:16 the question was: should the logo explicitly _not_ reference wireless? Jul 30 08:10:43 I have no strong opinion about this - I can only tell you that wired devices are not in our roadmap ;) Jul 30 08:10:55 pschneid: you listening ;) Jul 30 08:10:56 lol Jul 30 08:11:18 I think that the whole point any community is the core it grows around. Jul 30 08:11:26 and we're not just random friends Jul 30 08:11:28 so you ll made wireless extern video out ? Jul 30 08:11:31 ;) Jul 30 08:11:44 maybe a hand holding a rectangle Jul 30 08:11:45 we share a common interest - In particular we are about being untethered - communications over the ether.. Jul 30 08:11:49 well, there are wireless power chargers in the market... ;) Jul 30 08:12:20 qgil > but none that don't kill the user :) Jul 30 08:12:31 (what, like mobile phones?) Jul 30 08:12:35 * lbt ducks Jul 30 08:12:58 First time IRC for the sake of the jury...bare with me Jul 30 08:13:33 pschneid: So far so good ;) Jul 30 08:13:43 pschneid: hi there Jul 30 08:14:46 Khertan: Your problem is fixed now. We needed to invalidate the cache on that package at akamai. Jul 30 08:15:12 Khertan: You now seems to miss Build-Depends on python ;) Jul 30 08:15:21 s/seems/seem/ Jul 30 08:15:21 X-Fade meant: Khertan: You now seem to miss Build-Depends on python ;) Jul 30 08:17:38 pschneid: so about dropping wireless symbols... Jul 30 08:21:27 X-Fade > thx for your help Jul 30 08:21:44 i ll stop trying to do it from device ... Jul 30 08:21:44 Khertan: We aim to please ;) Jul 30 08:22:10 and try to found some time to do it from the vmware sdk image this week end Jul 30 08:22:19 with debian tools Jul 30 08:26:41 you are asking my view on wireless symbols in the to-be-chosen maemo.org logo, right? Jul 30 08:26:43 X-Fade: loaded https page - still no comments Jul 30 08:26:52 maybe the guy deleted his comment? weird. Jul 30 08:27:23 RST38h: Which page? Jul 30 08:27:49 RST38h: Or maybe it was a rating and he left no comment. Jul 30 08:27:59 X-Fade: https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/ines/# Jul 30 08:28:10 The email notification said "has been commented by" Jul 30 08:28:22 RST38h: Then the mail shouldn't have been sent. (Bug :) Jul 30 08:28:27 heh Jul 30 08:29:11 I kinda suspect it had to be sent to a different project maintainer Jul 30 08:29:24 morning Jul 30 08:30:07 RST38h: I suspect it is a rating. We turned on notification last week, so you might not have seen this before. Jul 30 08:32:01 Sounds like it Jul 30 08:32:14 pschneid: yes (thought you'd gone - went to email) Jul 30 08:33:03 happy to chat in public though. Jul 30 08:35:38 lbt: well, I answered there already, but for the benefit of other IRC chatters, here is my view on IRC in regards to symbols identifying a pen or wireless connectivity in the maemo.org logo: IMHO, the maemo.org logo should communicate the values and attributes of the community and to a lesser extent of the product it works on. We should keep the doors open to contribute apps from Maemo Community to desktop projects and cre Jul 30 08:38:10 pschneid: you hit the line length Jul 30 08:38:22 irc = more small sentences Jul 30 08:38:44 with follow on if you type quickly (or cut'n'paste) Jul 30 08:38:44 Ja, ja, ja. Let me learn, will ya? ;-) Jul 30 08:39:21 hints'n'tips - plus I wasn't sure your client would make it obvious... :) Jul 30 08:42:13 . Jul 30 08:44:57 pschneid: I totally agree and suggest we use bare-breasted anime characters for the logo Jul 30 08:45:17 lbt: actually, my client shows the complete "biography" I wrote previously nicely - this mibbit is rather convenient client for somebody that sits behing a massive amount of firewalls Jul 30 08:45:39 pschneid: A lot of people here will agree on this, as a good reflection of community values Jul 30 08:47:04 pschneid: so on our clients you got cut off at "... desktop projects and cre" Jul 30 08:47:19 which is why I waited a few mins to see if you realised... :) Jul 30 08:47:56 X-Fade: does the build environment start from scratch for every build? Jul 30 08:48:12 zap_: Yes. It installs a clean sdk every time. Jul 30 08:48:57 zap_: A clean slate, so we can reproduce the same result every time. (That is the idea at least ;) Jul 30 08:50:40 and here is the rest of my last entry in "long vehicle style": We should keep the doors open to contribute apps from Maemo Community to desktop projects and create code for devices with pen-based input i.e. pure finger-touch devices, etc. Jul 30 08:50:56 X-Fade: so thats why build takes ages :) Jul 30 08:51:53 zap_: Check the timestamps on this log for example: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/lbreakout2_2.5.2-2.1maemo2/armel.root.log.OK.txt Jul 30 08:52:21 zap_: Takes about 2 minutes. Jul 30 08:52:49 :) then the server should be really busy :) Jul 30 08:53:25 zap: Any package in particular? Jul 30 08:53:29 I suppose my take on the logo is that it should communicate to non-community members and be actively liked by community members. Jul 30 08:53:45 X-Fade: can I log into the wiki yet? >_> Jul 30 08:53:58 X-Fade: no, just my usual grumbling ;-) Jul 30 08:54:02 lbt: couldn't agree more. Jul 30 08:54:31 I've been trying to avoid things that are too 'corporate' Jul 30 08:54:32 rm_you: Not my department? ;) Jul 30 08:54:40 * RST38h thinks the logo has to be round and navy-blue. Jul 30 08:54:58 and there's a fine line between amateurish and playful Jul 30 08:55:38 [god, I was right omitting the "include a hamster and a wheel" part] Jul 30 08:55:44 * zap thinks the logo has to be square and purple Jul 30 08:56:08 (see - the community wants purple - deadnight it is) Jul 30 08:56:09 zap: I think we should have a fight! Jul 30 08:56:24 FIGHT!!! Jul 30 08:56:27 maemo logo: http://www.affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/star_wars_clone_army.jpg Jul 30 08:56:30 KILL KILL Jul 30 08:56:37 left, left, right, up, left, down, left, SPACE, SPACE Jul 30 08:56:39 http://wiki.maemo.org/images/thumb/b/b9/Maemo.org_logo_contest_underscore_1.png/288px-Maemo.org_logo_contest_underscore_1.png Jul 30 08:56:43 seems appropriate then Jul 30 08:57:04 stickman starred in the photoshop/animator flash film Jul 30 08:57:06 neat Jul 30 08:57:15 zap: RESET. Jul 30 08:57:43 ctl-alt-sysreq b Jul 30 08:58:02 by the way, anybody got a good joystick for N8xx? I looked around and there is little choice of bluetooth joysticks, and they all are damn big... Jul 30 08:58:08 up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, select, start, and with this super power, unlimited ammo i ll beat you ! Jul 30 08:58:36 so pschneid, you following the rational elements of a (quiet) irc session ;) Jul 30 08:58:39 ban cheaters Jul 30 08:59:00 lol Jul 30 08:59:02 zap: There is exactly 1 (one) BT joystick on the market =( Jul 30 08:59:53 sad. I've seen some little cheap wired joystick for notebooks though Jul 30 09:00:04 RST38h > in fact there is two ... the original on the same china copy Jul 30 09:00:06 USB connector is hidden in N810 Jul 30 09:00:17 s/on/and Jul 30 09:00:20 you mean you'll have to open the handle? Jul 30 09:00:24 Khertan: made at the same factory, no doubt =( Jul 30 09:00:26 zap: Yes Jul 30 09:00:34 this is unfortunate Jul 30 09:00:35 Actually, I can't as it is covered by the case Jul 30 09:00:46 we want controls like on PSP! :) Jul 30 09:00:47 RST38h > many chances ... Jul 30 09:00:48 There are few more options to consider though Jul 30 09:00:58 lol Jul 30 09:01:04 RST38h: which? Jul 30 09:01:15 Well, you can use your cell phone as joystick Jul 30 09:01:20 doh Jul 30 09:01:26 This will need a program for the cell phone Jul 30 09:01:32 cell phones have keyboards worse than N8xx Jul 30 09:01:37 zap: some. Jul 30 09:01:47 With all my respect to Nokia, it cannot do keyboards Jul 30 09:01:50 include wii accel tech in your phone and bt connect it to the nit... Jul 30 09:01:52 *make Jul 30 09:01:53 zap: Others like E70 are pretty decent. And we are talking about dpad, not kbd right now Jul 30 09:02:01 BTW! Jul 30 09:02:18 buying a phone to play games sounds jerky Jul 30 09:02:23 zap: thanks to konttori (I think) you can use WII dildo-like thingie with N8x0 Jul 30 09:02:33 ah, indeed Jul 30 09:02:39 now if it just sells somewhere here Jul 30 09:02:44 that would rule, I think Jul 30 09:02:56 zap: Seen it at a videogame kiosk in Sedmoi Kontinent Jul 30 09:03:04 zap: Not sure about the price, probably a lot Jul 30 09:03:07 nice, I'll look around Jul 30 09:03:35 ergonomics-wise, it is probably the best choice Jul 30 09:03:54 touchscreen is nice, but if you'll use it for controls first you risk to punch it through, and second you don't see well what happens on the screen :) Jul 30 09:04:44 and n810 dpad is just not usable =( Jul 30 09:04:56 especially the up arrow :) Jul 30 09:05:08 You call THAT an "arrow"? =) Jul 30 09:06:16 hey right ! we can use wii remote as a joystik ! Jul 30 09:06:31 Perhaps Nokia's going to sell bt joysticks for N8xx in future? Otherwise why the would make such a bad dpad? Jul 30 09:06:48 wii remotes start at $27 in US Jul 30 09:06:53 Pretty cheap Jul 30 09:06:54 hmm, cheap Jul 30 09:07:07 39 Euros in france ... pretty hight ! Jul 30 09:07:27 i should by mine in us Jul 30 09:07:49 * RST38h wonders what he should type into price.ru to get the correct item Jul 30 09:08:38 Hmm.."wii remote".... rur1450 Jul 30 09:09:44 RST38h: look here: http://injapan.ru/auction/d84621780.html Jul 30 09:10:09 and here: http://injapan.ru/auction/t72321514.html Jul 30 09:10:14 hee, hee, hee... Jul 30 09:10:53 $18, cheaper than dirt Jul 30 09:11:15 zap: these are not controllers Jul 30 09:11:51 ? Jul 30 09:11:52 zap: they are fakes, flashlights that project game images Jul 30 09:12:44 indeed, the second seems a fake Jul 30 09:13:03 First one needs a Wii controller to work Jul 30 09:13:17 I know, its kind of an addon? Jul 30 09:13:20 It is a SNES-like pad that plugs into Wii controller Jul 30 09:14:03 this is a fake too? http://injapan.ru/auction/e78937696.html Jul 30 09:15:11 zap: it is another addon Jul 30 09:15:49 whoa, cool Jul 30 09:17:07 RST38h: here's a non-fake: http://injapan.ru/auction/f69415901.html Jul 30 09:17:32 does it work per se, or it needs some additional add-on to function properly? :) Jul 30 09:20:20 11:09:44 zap | RST38h: look here: http://injapan.ru/auction/d84621780.html Jul 30 09:20:24 that one is real Jul 30 09:20:35 zap: just plug it into a wiimote and it works Jul 30 09:20:55 aquatix: yes but we are looking for a wiimote Jul 30 09:21:09 zap: yea, this one is real Jul 30 09:21:24 ah, k Jul 30 09:21:31 well, the last link from zap is real indeed Jul 30 09:21:34 zap: How are you gonna deliver it from Sapporo to Moscow? Jul 30 09:23:45 RST38h: it'll cost about $30 I think, if you take several it'll be cheaper than to buy here Jul 30 09:24:54 EMS comes down to $78 Jul 30 09:25:38 if you buy multiple ones, you hit customs and have to pay 50-100% extra Jul 30 09:27:42 customs won't touch you unless your whole pack is estimated to 10000RUR, in practice I got items that cost ~$500 without paying anything Jul 30 09:28:00 zap: Hehe, you may not know yet ;) Jul 30 09:28:11 I buy photo lenses there :-P Jul 30 09:28:40 zap: But if you send via express service (EMS etc) the postage cost gets counted into those 10000 Jul 30 09:28:57 nope Jul 30 09:29:01 Yep Jul 30 09:29:07 Got hit by this once Jul 30 09:29:28 $200 customs duty on a $150 phone Jul 30 09:29:35 ??? Jul 30 09:29:43 They wanted $800 first Jul 30 09:29:47 its always 30% Jul 30 09:30:14 Yes, but the package cost is being estimated by some guy Jul 30 09:30:38 So he can tell you that your package is actually worth $500 and compute 30% of that Jul 30 09:30:44 ouch Jul 30 09:30:47 have you got one or several? If several, that won't pass the 'for personal use' case Jul 30 09:31:07 zap: One. And it was a developer sample (marked as such) Jul 30 09:31:25 zap: BTW, sending stuff OUT is near impossible Jul 30 09:31:28 neo? Jul 30 09:31:35 zap: Moto Jul 30 09:31:40 ok Jul 30 09:31:49 well my experience so far was very positive Jul 30 09:31:56 Try sending a gaming console and a few carts Jul 30 09:32:07 xap, now you are a unzip-zip admin in the garage Jul 30 09:32:13 feel free to do anything ;) Jul 30 09:32:24 yerga: thanks :) I just wanted to fix a few things Jul 30 09:33:07 zap: My experience so far has been "f@#king sh#t, I am buying it in US or sending it from US" Jul 30 09:33:47 you're unlucky :) Jul 30 09:33:52 maybe Jul 30 09:34:19 i pay a beer at the summit for the one which upload python-hildondesktop binding and the launcher to diablo extras-devel Jul 30 09:34:25 someone interested ? Jul 30 09:34:38 :) Jul 30 09:34:41 Khertan: What volume of beer? Jul 30 09:34:57 :) Jul 30 09:35:01 Khertan: Sorry, already got enough beer credits ;) Jul 30 09:35:06 not less than one bucket Jul 30 09:35:18 i would say 1 Litre Jul 30 09:35:31 (Litre ? in english ... don't sure) Jul 30 09:35:55 liter but everybody understands :) Jul 30 09:35:58 1 litre = 0,264172052 gallons Jul 30 09:36:06 :) Jul 30 09:36:30 my vocabulary says both are ok :) Jul 30 09:36:59 remove the french dictionnary :) Jul 30 09:37:15 litre is british Jul 30 09:38:03 and gallon is ambiguous :-) Jul 30 09:38:03 oh well have to run now. See you. Jul 30 09:38:51 litre = dm^3 Jul 30 09:39:15 as in +1E0 dm^3 Jul 30 09:42:43 Hi when I am trying "[sbox-CHINOOK_ARMEL: ~] > apt-get update " It failed with Error message "Failed to fetch ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/etch/main/binary-armel/Packages.gz Unable to fetch file, server said 'Failed to open file.I" Jul 30 09:42:53 why so ? Jul 30 09:52:53 Khertan, stay tuned to the autobuilder ;) Jul 30 09:53:05 I am uploading the hildondesktop bindings Jul 30 09:58:30 atul: Repository is down Jul 30 09:59:08 RST38h: but when I open form browser it will get open. Ok I have to wait. Jul 30 09:59:16 RST38h: thanks Jul 30 10:00:26 yerga > HEY ! THANKS ! Jul 30 10:00:48 first attempt failed :P Jul 30 10:01:06 ;) Jul 30 10:01:36 atul: you mean the exact file? Jul 30 10:01:41 mv: cannot stat `debian/build/usr/bin/hildon-desktop': No such file or directory Jul 30 10:01:43 :) Jul 30 10:02:51 Heh, yerga is hunting for beer ;) Jul 30 10:03:21 yes! but it will be in the next summit ;) Jul 30 10:03:26 RST38h: Not exactlly actually when I try to open I found the required package it not available there. Jul 30 10:04:17 atul: Your dns lookup isn't working inside scratchbox. Jul 30 10:04:29 X-Fade: Yes it is working Jul 30 10:04:46 atul: http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-users/2007-March/000906.html Jul 30 10:06:04 * Khertan is thinking of a new website that offer a new service ... sending beer by fast postal delivery :) Jul 30 10:06:11 very usefull to all of us :) Jul 30 10:06:28 Beer exchange. Jul 30 10:06:50 X-Fade: Thanks Jul 30 10:08:43 trickie|work: pong Jul 30 10:08:57 X-Fade: RST38h: When I try to open abouve link the actual package is not there so may be that is the problem. Not of apt-get's Jul 30 10:09:17 jott: hello Jul 30 10:09:29 X-Fade: RST38h: That package remove by debian guys but maemo guys forgot to remove same one Jul 30 10:09:46 jott: i made a mail to -dev already but just wanted to check if http://sse2.net/rotate/Updated_blizzard_rotation_support_v2.diff is that lastest patch for rotation support? Jul 30 10:09:56 atul: maemo doesn't fetch from debian.org. Jul 30 10:10:05 atul: So you must have added that yourself. Jul 30 10:10:09 trickie|work: yes, this should be the latest version. Jul 30 10:10:22 * jott looks at -dev Jul 30 10:10:54 cool Jul 30 10:11:11 X-Fade: How come I didn't't added anything when I am trying apt-get update it is failing and on console it is displaying message which indication that it is taking form debian.org. Jul 30 10:11:40 atul: Well, that is not coming from the maemo sdk. Jul 30 10:11:58 X-Fade: ok Jul 30 10:12:21 * RST38h quietly wonders when Nokia adds the rotation patch to its stock kernel Jul 30 10:12:36 It is not like this patch harms anything, unless activated... Jul 30 10:12:39 It won't :( Jul 30 10:12:40 trickie|work: any particular question or just wanted to confirm that the link in the mail is right? Jul 30 10:12:59 qwerty: Why? Jul 30 10:13:13 jott: yeah just checking i have correct versions of most (all?) know kernel patches Jul 30 10:13:23 trickie|work: nice. Jul 30 10:13:24 ast least ones that are useful for the community kernels project Jul 30 10:13:36 trickie|work: how about a git branch? :) Jul 30 10:13:37 can the kernel be upgraded without flashing in diablo? Jul 30 10:13:39 RST38h, Well, its an unofficial patch and it means extra work on nokia for fixing the nokia applications that do not work in rotation. Jul 30 10:13:53 jott: can we get a git repo at the garage? Jul 30 10:13:55 lbt, yes, you can run fiasco-flasher as root Jul 30 10:13:59 qwerty: Nokia does not have to provide tools ot activate rotation Jul 30 10:14:02 or just use one of the free mirrors i guess Jul 30 10:14:18 jott: I wondered about git - but would quilt or similar be better? Jul 30 10:14:28 qwerty: Just needs to apply the patch. And whoever rotates his screen is on his own, it is still not an officially supported featyre Jul 30 10:14:44 RST38h, Maybe not. But Nokia are pretty anal when it comes to 3rd party stuff. The application manager legal message is a nice example. Jul 30 10:14:45 trickie|work: not yet but we could use repo.or.cz Jul 30 10:14:52 lbt: why in particular? Jul 30 10:15:13 well, there's a constant baseline (nokia kernel) Jul 30 10:15:25 maybe git repos for the patches... Jul 30 10:15:35 jott: i would liek to use git, was just trying to stay in maemo-infrastructure land with my quilt suggestion Jul 30 10:15:43 but the patches are pick'n'choose Jul 30 10:15:44 lbt: well *all* kernel developers use git. Jul 30 10:15:54 maybe we also want branches also Jul 30 10:15:57 and you can cherry-pick any patches you like with git Jul 30 10:16:02 build kernels for n770's Jul 30 10:16:07 jott: have you seen the name at the bottom of the git docs? Jul 30 10:16:26 I *like* git Jul 30 10:16:27 Aloha! Jul 30 10:16:29 yeah i agree that git would be more useful, especially if we want to start backporting anything or generating new patches Jul 30 10:16:41 but I'm not sure it's right for managing a patch set Jul 30 10:16:45 managing the patches - yes Jul 30 10:17:04 but do we want a single alternative kernel with all patches? Jul 30 10:17:15 yeah thats the question Jul 30 10:17:21 well, we can make any branch Jul 30 10:17:28 and do we support kernels for n770's etc Jul 30 10:17:35 so if there is a need for a kernel with fewer patches, than that is a branch Jul 30 10:17:47 or for 770 Jul 30 10:18:12 you can easily exchange patches between the branches... Jul 30 10:18:47 how does the mm kernel branch work Jul 30 10:19:03 that's the model I think we want Jul 30 10:19:37 hm Jul 30 10:20:16 Andrew documents his process - take a look for that Jul 30 10:20:32 I've not been on lkml for a few months - I know he used to use quilt Jul 30 10:20:42 he may have found a way to do it with git Jul 30 10:21:08 each patch of course is developed in isolation based on linus's tree Jul 30 10:21:19 but there is no git of the nokia tree Jul 30 10:21:26 we could make one Jul 30 10:21:53 based on the omap tree maybe? Jul 30 10:22:03 is that their upstream? Jul 30 10:22:09 lbt: yes, nokia tree looks much like linux-omap Jul 30 10:22:12 with major patches Jul 30 10:22:12 i'm quite sure. Jul 30 10:22:17 most of them are in Jul 30 10:22:27 linux-omap is currently better than 2.6.21 nokia Jul 30 10:22:34 EXCEPT the stupid wifi driver Jul 30 10:22:40 :D Jul 30 10:22:41 well they are not the same though Jul 30 10:22:41 gah Jul 30 10:23:01 someone should tell Nokia to test and build the driver vs 2.6.26 Jul 30 10:23:08 I think it's best to base the kernel patch on the nokia released kernels Jul 30 10:23:11 skipping 5 releases is enough Jul 30 10:23:13 im sure they are internally though Jul 30 10:23:19 yeah we cannot base on linux-omap Jul 30 10:23:23 lbt: they're buggy a lot Jul 30 10:23:27 but yes Jul 30 10:23:37 well, I suppose backports... Jul 30 10:23:38 as it differs and we don't want to second guess what nokia will do the future Jul 30 10:23:42 esp. the tsc driver is buggy Jul 30 10:23:43 which may get picked up Jul 30 10:24:03 but they're loosely coupled (as 'patches' or branches) Jul 30 10:24:04 hmm. Jul 30 10:24:09 trickie|work: i thought not about branching head but more of the version that is most likely the base for the nokia kernel. Jul 30 10:24:10 tsc driver works by coincidence Jul 30 10:24:18 it's ripe with race conditions Jul 30 10:24:28 the one in 2.6.25 or newer is good Jul 30 10:24:34 jott - or create a new git tree Jul 30 10:24:43 import the nokia released kernel Jul 30 10:24:48 as head Jul 30 10:25:00 and then branch each of the patches... Jul 30 10:25:13 local devs can merge to test for conflicts Jul 30 10:25:29 well i gotta run, but i think we should throw these ideas to the list Jul 30 10:25:32 but the git tree keeps them independent? Jul 30 10:25:58 ok - I like git approach after all Jul 30 10:26:47 really, have nokia build the frigging driver against some recent linux-omap Jul 30 10:26:58 what can they lose? it can even be untested Jul 30 10:27:11 just built and somewhat working Jul 30 10:27:22 hey, it's wifi.... one day... Jul 30 10:27:38 AStorm: help with the open wifi driver development .) Jul 30 10:27:41 atheros just went fully OS didn't they? Jul 30 10:27:43 "One day I'm gonna cut you into little pieces"? Jul 30 10:27:52 lbt: most, yes Jul 30 10:28:02 trick is, prism54 spi patch is very undeveloped Jul 30 10:28:06 good enough for upstream? Jul 30 10:28:14 and I don't have the hardware to develop it Jul 30 10:28:22 or specs Jul 30 10:28:55 I'd have to fashion a custom pingrabber FPGA Jul 30 10:29:02 and then decode what it sends Jul 30 10:29:18 eek - way out of my area... :) Jul 30 10:29:41 AStorm: http://cx3110x.sipsolutions.net/ Jul 30 10:29:44 there are similar tools already made Jul 30 10:30:00 jott: new devel? driver w/o horrid binary blob? Jul 30 10:30:03 (firmware is ok) Jul 30 10:30:32 AStorm: yes. Jul 30 10:30:37 I've seen this page Jul 30 10:30:42 the driver is underdeveloped Jul 30 10:30:45 sure Jul 30 10:30:58 and I don't have the hardware to grab internal SPI Jul 30 10:31:12 but when you help, the original developer will most likely gain motivation to continue Jul 30 10:31:46 "Internal error. Application "E-mail" closed.........i got this message very often now Jul 30 10:31:53 but I can't w/o hardware Jul 30 10:32:11 AStorm: you have your tablets. there are ways and means to reverse engineer stuff. Jul 30 10:32:14 need a good FPGA which works under Linux and isn't too expensive - recommendations? Jul 30 10:32:30 yes yes Jul 30 10:32:46 there are ways, but I can't grab SPI in software with the controller Nokia uses Jul 30 10:32:55 have you asked about this stuff on lkml? Jul 30 10:33:02 ... Jul 30 10:33:09 more like, on linux-omap :> Jul 30 10:33:14 I should Jul 30 10:33:22 lkml would welcome it Jul 30 10:33:32 huh why? it's related to OMAP only Jul 30 10:33:37 I've hung out there enough Jul 30 10:33:43 the chip is ARMv7 with random software uploaded Jul 30 10:33:48 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wireless.general/11997 Jul 30 10:33:59 (this is the original post) Jul 30 10:34:02 where random software is actually LMAC Jul 30 10:34:27 i guess posting on the wireless list should give helpful responses. Jul 30 10:34:38 "We need to look into umac or see how it communicates to figure that out, shouldn't be too hard" Jul 30 10:34:47 guess why I'd need the hardware :P Jul 30 10:35:19 asking on lkml to get support for unsupported hardware may well put you in touch with people Jul 30 10:35:28 who may be able to loan you hardware Jul 30 10:35:31 tools etc Jul 30 10:35:50 there's a lot of talk about helping out with drivers Jul 30 10:36:16 ask them to back it up - you may get somewhere Jul 30 10:36:28 heh, really, they won't send an FPGA to some J. Random Jul 30 10:36:39 these thing cost some Jul 30 10:36:51 no - but you may live near someone who'll give you access Jul 30 10:36:52 I could ask though which board they recommend Jul 30 10:36:58 or you may not Jul 30 10:37:08 don't ask, don't get Jul 30 10:37:17 actually, I should be able to somehow loan one out of our labs if I prod the right person Jul 30 10:37:19 hopefully Jul 30 10:37:30 just being encouraging :) Jul 30 10:37:34 but that's in a few months Jul 30 10:37:46 I'd also buy n800 to take it apart Jul 30 10:37:47 :P Jul 30 10:37:56 (no need to destroy my shiny n810) Jul 30 10:38:00 has anyone dropped/killed one? Jul 30 10:38:17 lbt: + and is willing to send one to Poland Jul 30 10:38:44 I'd chip in to postage... it's called community :) Jul 30 10:39:35 wait first till I get that FPGA Jul 30 10:39:41 and proper cables Jul 30 10:39:47 indeed Jul 30 10:39:53 Hi everybody Jul 30 10:40:00 but I think people will help if you/we ask... Jul 30 10:41:43 Does anyone know what does this mean? /home/user # /usr/bin/pidgin Alarm Clock. And then it crashes Jul 30 10:41:58 and also getting johannes berg motivated to work more on the driver would also bring some synergies. Jul 30 10:43:05 yerga: Hmm i386 weidness? Jul 30 10:43:21 GAIM gives me a segmentation fault and Pidgin crashes for that 'Alarm Clock'... Jul 30 10:44:14 X-Fade, yes, the armel built right Jul 30 10:44:47 yerga: I don't get that ;) Jul 30 10:44:57 X-Fade, can you see the config.log file? Jul 30 10:45:00 yerga: No gcc for i386? Jul 30 10:45:25 yerga: I can only see what you can see. Which is: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/python-hildondesktop_0.0.2-1/ Jul 30 10:45:25 so AStorm go for it grab you ida pro and objdump for now until you get your fpga :) Jul 30 10:45:50 jott: already grabbed objdump Jul 30 10:45:56 asm isn't too interesting Jul 30 10:46:08 and theoretically due to licence constraints we can't use it :P Jul 30 10:48:00 X-Fade, no problem, I can reproduce it in my i386 system Jul 30 10:48:29 yerga: Ah. Jul 30 10:54:53 AStorm: i guess getting the frame dumps in an early stage would already help. and you don't need an fpga for that .. Jul 30 11:01:09 this means I need a hacked AP :) Jul 30 11:01:21 or wait, you're talking what frame dumps? Jul 30 11:01:25 memory dumps of UMAC? Jul 30 11:01:49 this can't be legal :/ Jul 30 11:01:53 It would Jul 30 11:01:53 be great to get complete frame dumps out of umac by making Jul 30 11:01:54 cx3110x log all the data. Jul 30 11:02:03 yes Jul 30 11:02:11 could do that Jul 30 11:02:38 still need a separate device, I'm using my n810 so much I haven't upgraded to diablo by reflash yet Jul 30 11:04:10 Khertan: You owe yerga a beer now ;) Jul 30 11:05:02 :), wait a moment, I hope the packages are right but it's necessary a bit of testing Jul 30 11:05:28 yerga: Well it builds ok now, that is a start.. Jul 30 11:06:07 I have tested it locally and work, but you never know Jul 30 11:06:37 "[extras-builds] [diablo]: python-hildondesktop 0.0.2-1 OK" Jul 30 11:22:45 X-Fade: is there an easy way to contact all garage project members when there is no mailing list? Jul 30 11:25:36 Yeah great ! Jul 30 11:25:45 thanks yerga Jul 30 11:26:04 Khertan, no problem ;) Jul 30 11:26:22 that really help me a lot ! Jul 30 11:28:18 Khertan, i finally find you. thank you so much for your help with python Jul 30 11:28:50 If i add a debian arm eabi repository... Will it work? Jul 30 11:28:50 Khertan, I only ask you a thing, please delete the python-runtime dependence from the plugins. Jul 30 11:28:59 Anybody knows how I can run a program from Perl and access itsstdin and stdout as files? Jul 30 11:31:36 yerga > ? why ? Jul 30 11:31:58 it installs every python package Jul 30 11:32:07 and it isn't necessary Jul 30 11:32:13 yes ... of course ... Jul 30 11:32:14 :) Jul 30 11:32:36 Binky > why do you want to do that ? Jul 30 11:33:00 Add the repository or thank you? Jul 30 11:33:14 ? Jul 30 11:33:33 Binky>a debian repository Jul 30 11:33:43 yerga > ok i ll change that ... :) Jul 30 11:33:52 If first, I want to install a few packages that are not ported to maemo Jul 30 11:33:54 Khertan, thanks! Jul 30 11:33:58 Binky: you would trash the system. i don't know if qole's debian chroot works on 770. Jul 30 11:34:10 Tuxguitar and jokosher Jul 30 11:34:13 Ok.. Jul 30 11:34:16 yerga > i ll do that around 18:00 GMT+2 Jul 30 11:34:38 Binky > many libs aren't made to be use on maemo Jul 30 11:34:49 Binky > and many things will claim this libs Jul 30 11:35:04 Binky > so you could crash the system Jul 30 11:36:01 Khertan, ok... i removed it. anyway, update package list took too many MBs Jul 30 11:36:17 jott: I think we can do that through gforge. What do you want to do? Jul 30 11:37:27 Khertan, will take years to see these apps ported Jul 30 11:37:31 jott: I can send to 'All project developers', 'all project admins'. Jul 30 11:38:07 X-Fade, spamming again :P Jul 30 11:38:28 X-Fade: ah.. uhm /me searches the link :) Jul 30 11:39:29 huhu ... macosx as still no patch for the bind exploit ... Jul 30 11:40:30 Binky > yes ... you could wait for tuxguitar ... it s dev in java Jul 30 11:41:33 I could wait, but not on OS2006... Jul 30 11:41:57 Khertan, will be released a Diablo HE? Jul 30 11:42:24 none idea Jul 30 11:43:19 for jokosher, it s writted in pygtk ... but it need the depandancies http://gnonlin.sourceforge.net/ Jul 30 11:45:04 I almost smash my pc against the floor trying to solve that depend in Ubuntu Jul 30 11:45:36 Later i knew jokosher was on repos and i hadn't to install a deb Jul 30 11:47:44 Khertan, Since no IM works on my IT do you know of any web based messenger that works? Ebuddy doesn't Jul 30 11:52:26 Binky > no sorry Jul 30 11:53:36 Binky: You really should clone a HE onto an mmc. on my N800 OS2008, pidgin + rtcomm beta are stable. Jul 30 11:59:01 Khertan, I only have 512 mbs Jul 30 12:02:46 qwerty12_N800, sorry, i meant that message to you Jul 30 12:03:27 Binky: Ah. I'd get a bigger mmc then :) Jul 30 12:14:50 qwerty12_N800, WHAT THE HELL DOES THIS MEAN? ~ $ /usr/bin/pidgin Alarm clock. And pidgin exits Jul 30 12:15:27 garbage in, garbage out? Jul 30 12:15:33 Binky: I have no idea. Jul 30 12:16:08 aquatix, what? Jul 30 12:16:29 well, if you feed pidgin an alarm clock, it fails Jul 30 12:16:37 or something Jul 30 12:16:56 * aquatix is slowly cooking in his office, so might not make too much sense Jul 30 12:17:10 airco hasn't been deployed here yet :/ Jul 30 12:18:45 aquatix, maybe it makes sense but not for a newbie like me. all was right until i upgraded it to 2.4.3-0nix0 and now doesn't work and i can't install gaim. all web based ones nor gizmo do not work. No IM Jul 30 12:19:56 Binky: Downgrade it. browse through the maemo extras repo. Jul 30 12:20:22 aquatix, becoming steamix? Jul 30 12:20:34 Binky: ah; the part i don't understand is the `alarm clock' Jul 30 12:20:43 lcuk: quite so Jul 30 12:20:59 damn, i even have sweaty hands, that's a bad sign Jul 30 12:21:03 * aquatix gets some cold water Jul 30 12:21:07 ewwww Jul 30 12:21:18 lol Jul 30 12:21:39 I'd downgrade with aptitud purge, but i don't know with apt-get Jul 30 12:21:46 *sigh* Jul 30 12:21:51 i tried running liqbase on a computer without a fan, it just ended up steaming all over Jul 30 12:21:58 lcuk: dirty mind... Jul 30 12:22:05 teehee Jul 30 12:22:22 aquatix: that TITle goes to me :p Jul 30 12:22:33 i havent got a dirty mind Jul 30 12:22:43 clean and pure thoughts. Jul 30 12:22:52 ok, so maybe i think nuns are hot Jul 30 12:23:05 ah, so you where just grossed out by my clammy hands? Jul 30 12:23:08 can't blame you Jul 30 12:23:08 "Sovereign immunity blocks DMCA suit against Air Force" Jul 30 12:23:15 lcuk: eww Jul 30 12:23:29 [only nuns i've seen lately are 60+ ;) ] Jul 30 12:23:49 lcuk would still go after them I bet :p Jul 30 12:23:52 mmmmmm bea mcarthur in a nun costume Jul 30 12:24:29 -mc Jul 30 12:25:33 ... Jul 30 12:25:39 :D Jul 30 12:26:05 Bye, thank you all! Jul 30 12:26:15 lcuk: i gather you like Madonna then? http://www.nu.nl/img.db/1676855+s(350!x234!) Jul 30 12:26:44 god she looks rough Jul 30 12:26:58 but yer, i'd take her home most likely :D Jul 30 12:27:06 its madonna ffs Jul 30 12:27:35 anyway, must dash Jul 30 12:29:48 ffs, why TF does my dpkg --set-selections get reset when i reboot the tablet. Jul 30 12:29:54 nuns are hot? ... Jul 30 12:30:08 forbidden pleasure or something? Jul 30 12:31:17 * qwerty12_N800 is tempted to learn python to make an frontend to apt-get pinning Jul 30 12:32:13 qwerty12_N800: what's wrong with vi /etc/apt/preferences ? :) Jul 30 12:33:18 aquatix: that is where you do apt-get pinning right? :) Jul 30 12:33:44 qwerty12_N800: indeed :) Jul 30 12:34:51 atm, bluez-utils & xomap-xserver wants to be updated. if I do that, i lose dsp-sbc + rotation. Jul 30 12:35:24 cute: http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/2ndChances/w1kspidersquirrel.jpg Jul 30 12:36:02 aww Jul 30 12:36:55 Think if it's dressed like a nun, a certain member here will take it home? :P Jul 30 12:37:04 qwerty" they just HAVE TO add the rotation patch Jul 30 12:38:27 qwerty12_N800: quite certain Jul 30 12:39:16 RST38h: If something messes up as a result of that patch, they have to support it too. Instead of talking to me, file a bug and see what they (i.e nokia) say. Jul 30 12:39:25 aquatix: hehe Jul 30 12:39:38 Anybody interested in being a kernel hacker @ Nokia? http://maemo.org/news/jobs/view/1217420722.html Jul 30 12:40:41 Get in touch with fanoush ;) Jul 30 12:41:19 X-Fade, why does it have to be in Finland :( Jul 30 12:41:31 yep ... Jul 30 12:41:40 and i'm not a kernel patcher ... :) Jul 30 12:41:54 I'm moving to the UK tomorrow, I can hardly see myself moving to FI right away... Maybe in a couple of years Jul 30 12:42:35 X-Fade, it really sucks they don't have positions like this in Farnborough Jul 30 12:42:45 Finland's nice but i couldn't move there. Helsinki isn't like london :) Jul 30 12:42:45 crashanddie: Well, I have been there and I quite liked to visit there ;) Jul 30 12:43:25 crashanddie: you're relocating tomorrow? Jul 30 12:43:31 aye Jul 30 12:43:41 qwerty: Actually, a good idea. Jul 30 12:44:01 qwerty: What component has ot be patched in order for rotation to work? Jul 30 12:44:03 Xomap? Jul 30 12:44:27 RST38h: kernel and xomap Jul 30 12:44:37 jott: All righty. Jul 30 12:44:41 crashanddie: nice! pre-emptive good luck with moving :) Jul 30 12:44:51 thanks :) Jul 30 12:45:14 and xomap hasn't been touch by nokia for a long time as it seems :) Jul 30 12:45:48 Nokia now carry libxrandr too :) Jul 30 12:45:58 What will be the STEPS TO REPRODUCE? Jul 30 12:46:25 1. Get drunk Jul 30 12:47:13 2. Get $female drunk too Jul 30 12:47:22 RST38h: either install advanced backlight and miss the rotation options or start xrandr on terminal and see it's error message. Jul 30 12:47:48 [its] Jul 30 12:48:24 hehehe Jul 30 12:48:55 EXPECTED OUTCOME: sex Jul 30 12:49:02 lol Jul 30 12:49:44 ACTUAL OUTCOME: going home alone and surfing pr0n Jul 30 12:49:51 REALITY: epic fail Jul 30 12:50:01 heheheh Jul 30 12:50:05 no no, crashanddie , that's your outcome Jul 30 12:50:33 qwerty12_N800, you're not even allowed to get drunk, so please, keep the smartass answers in your pants :P Jul 30 12:50:46 qwerty12_N800: yours is - ACTUAL OUTCOME: waking up next to a 71 your old nun Jul 30 12:50:50 *year Jul 30 12:50:56 ouch. i just got owned >.< Jul 30 12:51:06 ;) Jul 30 12:51:07 Bug 3519 Submitted Jul 30 12:51:16 aquatix: isn't that lcuk's outcome :p Jul 30 12:51:24 qwerty12_N800: double fail Jul 30 12:51:28 Folks, please, go to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3519 and support this bug report Jul 30 12:51:42 qwerty12_N800: maybe you're not waking up next to that nun alone Jul 30 12:51:47 [ewwww] Jul 30 12:51:47 nooooooooo, i neva fail Jul 30 12:52:00 aquatix: you joining in too? Jul 30 12:52:09 qwerty12_N800: was thinking about lcuk Jul 30 12:52:14 i prefer young nuns Jul 30 12:52:53 RST38h: give me a min, i'll vote Jul 30 13:01:31 btw, if anyone has a job in mobile computing in London for a very talented, handsome, awesome and humble young man ! Hit me ! Jul 30 13:01:32 mikkov_: Nice, now I can test obsoleting packages with openlierox. ;) Jul 30 13:02:03 aquatix, still on about nuns? you must be pretty fixated, ive been away workin while you have been dreamin Jul 30 13:03:40 "Why did Nokia buy Trolltech? Because you can trim down Qtopia to smaller phone profiles than you can Maemo/Hildon." - Svartalf Jul 30 13:04:48 can advanced backlight turn off backlighting alltogether, and if so, is screen visible in bright sunlight without any backlighting? Jul 30 13:05:18 pupnik, hardly Jul 30 13:05:52 X-Fade: please do :) Jul 30 13:06:21 Well, Qtopia *is* more trimmable Jul 30 13:06:35 I wonder what is gonna happen with Symbian though... Jul 30 13:06:56 lcuk: well, i'm having a meltdown here; office is getting really warm [stupid non-aircoed office...] Jul 30 13:07:04 lcuk: and you put the concept in my mind Jul 30 13:09:37 * qwerty12_N800 searches in vain to find an english dbox2 wiki Jul 30 13:10:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBox2 <- dbox2 wiki ;) Jul 30 13:10:18 * aquatix runs Jul 30 13:10:50 aquatix: of course! how could i miss that?!? :p Jul 30 13:10:57 * qwerty12_N800 ends sarcasm Jul 30 13:11:12 mikkov_: I will, I now have 3 useable versions. So that is cool. Jul 30 13:14:03 crashanddie: it'd be cool if someone could invent a surface that can be electronically switched between mirroring and transparent Jul 30 13:15:23 isnt that what some phones do? when active and on the screen shows light through from behind, but when powered off it turns into a mirror Jul 30 13:15:42 yeah, but that's still just a single way mirror Jul 30 13:15:59 which means there's loss of brightness, and you need to light up the screen Jul 30 13:16:07 thats not what he said - you can see stuff through from behind the screen Jul 30 13:16:21 what pupnik wants is a surface that would become transparent/reflective based on its current Jul 30 13:16:42 just choice of lcd crystals then i would assume - its gotta be possible Jul 30 13:17:01 for the emu folks, some mame games getting "100-150fps" on the pandora devboards... wonder about the stutters in the youtube though. maybe lcd refresh issues? :P http://openpandora.org/blog.php Jul 30 13:17:52 i don't know of reflective lcds. point being to get good reflectivity in sunlight, and high brightness/contrast in the dark. Jul 30 13:18:07 -- for the backlight Jul 30 13:18:37 i think 'transflective' is just a partially reflective, partially transmissive, fixed-ratio backing behind the lcd Jul 30 13:18:47 *backing layer Jul 30 13:18:57 transreflective screens: hundreds of pinpricks on the surface of the 810. lets sunlight get in and behind to bounce and come back out allowing it to be visible in sun Jul 30 13:19:10 look carefully in the sun Jul 30 13:19:43 back later Jul 30 13:20:31 i sense a communication problem Jul 30 13:23:17 pupnik: I can get you 100fps on N8x0 if I do not blit all those frames to the actual screen Jul 30 13:23:27 pupnik: So, what is the big deal about it? :) Jul 30 13:23:47 Especially if you overclock it to 500MHz Jul 30 13:24:37 we can overclock the NIT to 500Mhz ? Jul 30 13:25:44 probably yes Jul 30 13:25:53 although Ti will never tell you how :) Jul 30 13:26:03 and it is not guaranteed to work Jul 30 13:28:10 you can modify kernel to have dsp 220 with cpu 400 but you risk damaging device requiring cold-flash Jul 30 13:28:22 RST38h: nobody's claiming they did any optimisation on xmame Jul 30 13:28:27 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbPQJUOsQBQ&fmt=18 higher quality vid Jul 30 13:28:48 RST38h: i just love seeing full fps emulation Jul 30 13:28:55 pupnik: Xmame is a shitload of games and there is a special version for GP2X afaik Jul 30 13:29:30 If this Capcom game is running on their second-gen board, then it is impressive indeed Jul 30 13:30:01 I mean Capcom's second gen board of course :) Jul 30 13:31:39 i haven't followed xmame since i helped ben with a patch in.. uh. 1999 or smth Jul 30 13:33:12 I'm sorry, but about that vid Jul 30 13:33:22 what proves us it's not a simple video playing in fullscreen ? Jul 30 13:33:33 it's probably not Jul 30 13:33:44 I mean, how do the games load one after the other ? Why no loading times, it just switches from one game to the other, like that ? Jul 30 13:33:48 you can see the speed being uneven sometimes Jul 30 13:33:55 "And I'm unfortunately going to have to echo that I don't think that emulating CPS1/2 level hardware at these frame rates is anything impressive" - Exophase Jul 30 13:34:12 CPS2 is impressive Jul 30 13:34:20 CPS2 is basically a Genesis Jul 30 13:34:26 crashanddie, i see task switching in instant time now - its not magic - theres mkore grunt in the dooferbob Jul 30 13:35:02 well Jul 30 13:35:10 RST38h: aha ok. and nothing arm-optimized like picodrive. i unnerstand Jul 30 13:35:13 I'm not convinced unless I see someone play the games Jul 30 13:35:34 lol - that can be fakeried just as easily Jul 30 13:35:57 not with me 3ft from the dude it isn't Jul 30 13:36:09 didnt someone put a video of google maps 3d stuff on nokia at one point Jul 30 13:36:12 but it was just a video Jul 30 13:36:12 pupnik: I do think they are using Cyclone in mame Jul 30 13:36:21 pupnik: So it *is* optimized like picodrive Jul 30 13:36:35 lcuk, just yank his hand off the controller for a minute, if the character keeps playing, I'll know what I know :) Jul 30 13:37:05 Folks, I do not know why you would suspect pandora people of fakery Jul 30 13:37:11 and probably be arrested for gross misconduct and abuse of a boothbabe Jul 30 13:37:28 I mean, they are probably skipping frames in this demo, but why would they replace gameplay with a video? Jul 30 13:37:28 (if its a woman at a show that is) Jul 30 13:37:59 crashanddie, we saw omap3 doin some really cool stuff at linuxtag Jul 30 13:38:07 it is capable of being a desktop replacement Jul 30 13:39:08 I doubt pandora is wandering too far from the reference platform, so we can expect similar performance gains on the next NIT release Jul 30 13:40:02 most likely Jul 30 13:42:31 Hmmz ;) http://maemo.org/intro/gallery/tag/all/omap3/ Jul 30 13:42:41 * lcuk will happily replace his desktop if it means native fully supported arm compilation environment without restrictions Jul 30 13:42:50 somebody made the game controller for ipod that i wanted to see for the tablets http://www.icontrolpad.com/ Jul 30 13:43:12 heh going from 300 watts to 3 watts Jul 30 13:43:45 ipod doesnt need it doesit ? its got own accel? Jul 30 13:44:19 Hehe, this one is especially cool: Big buck bunny full screen on omap3 :) http://maemo.org/intro/gallery/photo/28b1f0e657d111ddbfe68b393589b445b445/tag/all/omap3/ Jul 30 13:44:20 ahhh the buttons Jul 30 13:44:20 you can't play emulator games with an accelerometer Jul 30 13:44:35 x-fade :) lots of interest in omap3 isnt there Jul 30 13:44:39 http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=a7sx8CrVLW8 also RST38h - dunno if you saw zodttd's new psx emu Jul 30 13:44:51 pupnik: something like this would be really neat for the tablets. Jul 30 13:45:46 agree Jul 30 13:47:34 zodttd have made a new psx emu ? for which os ? :) Jul 30 13:47:48 i wonder if there are some companies who would do (realtive) cheap custom milling :) Jul 30 13:49:12 http://www.arcadeshop.de/index.php?cPath=73_97 or adding things like this to a nit :P Jul 30 13:49:29 http://www.arcadeshop.de/Joysticks-Thumbstick-yellow_452.html hm Jul 30 13:50:03 pupnik: why not use a wiimote? Jul 30 13:50:15 Khertan: he's just porting psx4all to pandora Jul 30 13:50:24 snowmoon-work: i prefer to hold the unit with the display in my hands Jul 30 13:50:33 otherwise, table necessary Jul 30 13:50:43 pandora ? don't know Jul 30 13:52:25 despite the uglyness of the pandora i think it will beat the n9xx in gaming as it has a proper dpad and buttons. i bet the n9xx will have an even worse dpad than the n810 ;) Jul 30 13:53:08 http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=0lWgzcXhF2o hacked SNES controller plugged into ipod Jul 30 13:53:52 Nokia does seem to hate good dpads. Jul 30 13:53:53 Khertan: http://openpandora.org/ http://openpandora.org/blog.php Jul 30 13:55:17 GAN800: My 7650 had quite a nice one. Jul 30 13:55:48 Although that was more a joystick like thing than a dpad. Jul 30 13:56:12 X-Fade: no, it was not really usable for gaming :/ Jul 30 13:56:26 my thumb hurt for hit :) Jul 30 13:57:08 jott: I don't know if that says more about you than about the dpad ;) Jul 30 13:57:22 or about my gaming habits? ;) Jul 30 13:57:35 cool Jul 30 13:57:37 "Sony's PSP GPU code basically renders to 320x240 (without any filtering or effects on textures) and then optionally scales that to somethign bigger afterwards. psx4pandora will render to 640x480 (or more, depending on the game) and have options to scale by how much you want in either direction. Also there will be bilinear texture filtering (which honestly I can't see why Sony would overlook) and a Scale2x filter applied on the textures beforehand as we Jul 30 13:57:49 X-Fade: 7650 thing was difficult to use Jul 30 13:57:59 painful, I would say Jul 30 13:58:25 RST38h: Well, I could use it without looking. That is something.. Jul 30 13:58:45 that's true Jul 30 13:58:56 X-Fade: yeah it is ok for menu navigation but not for fast reaction. Jul 30 13:59:22 the nokia 9300 has an analog "stick", except it doesn't work as analog, only as button presses when you move it for a certain amount Jul 30 13:59:32 pupnik: but something like the icontrolpad should not be *that* hard to do... Jul 30 14:02:50 My E70s joystick sucks, stops working now and then Jul 30 14:03:00 jott, maybe take apart a wii, and mount the buttons and electronics into a homemade casing Jul 30 14:03:00 Yes! Finally #3486 is fixed. Jul 30 14:04:14 :) Jul 30 14:04:16 pupnik: hm yeah or wire an modded usb pad to it. Jul 30 14:04:34 i'll just play the slow games like exult etc Jul 30 14:05:04 or use a joystick: http://junk.kegetys.net/mobile_gaming.jpg :P Jul 30 14:05:11 exult does not need a pad at all :P Jul 30 14:05:29 hehe Kegetys Jul 30 14:05:43 lol Jul 30 14:06:14 pupnik: i just thought that it would be cheaper and does need an extra battery. Jul 30 14:06:41 Kegetys: that's... awesome Jul 30 14:07:02 what game is that btw? Jul 30 14:07:18 stunt island Jul 30 14:07:38 stunt island, wow haven't heard/seen this for AGES :) Jul 30 14:08:46 ..1992 that's like 16 years ago ;) Jul 30 14:09:08 Kegetys: that's awesome Jul 30 14:09:16 Kegetys: Why is that game not in Extras and/or the downloads category? Jul 30 14:09:25 it's dosbox Jul 30 14:09:26 X-Fade: it's dosbox Jul 30 14:09:28 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3517 <- dupe Jul 30 14:09:35 Somebody want to find the original for me? Jul 30 14:09:44 hm, wonder whether i can play falcon 3 on it Jul 30 14:09:48 Hmm dosbox eh.. Jul 30 14:10:16 Kegetys: how the heck did you get that working... got a url with howto? can i link to it? Jul 30 14:10:25 GA: comment/vote on 3519 Jul 30 14:10:33 pupnik: stunt island or the joystick? Jul 30 14:10:37 the joystick Jul 30 14:10:46 just plug it in and add the bindings to dosbox cfg Jul 30 14:11:23 .... wow Jul 30 14:12:27 some small gamepad may be a bit more user friendly for carrying around though :) Jul 30 14:13:14 Kegetys: haha just imagine sitting in the train or plane and put that stuff out ;) Jul 30 14:13:25 :) Jul 30 14:15:46 jott: plane is the funiest Jul 30 14:16:00 especially when moving with the plane Jul 30 14:16:23 aquatix: and training crashes with stunt island :) Jul 30 14:19:19 ~lart missus not bein back from work Jul 30 14:19:19 * infobot sends a legion of lawyers after missus not bein back from work's head Jul 30 14:22:55 lcuk: vote or comment on bug 3519 Jul 30 14:28:28 hop ! web site update finished ... Jul 30 14:34:49 Kegetys, I guess we could hook up a PS3 controller pretty easily to an NIT Jul 30 14:36:56 crashanddie: as long as it works as a HID joystick and doesn't eat too much current then yes Jul 30 14:37:00 RST38h, you will have to give me a link, i cant swearch or scrollback too well withg vnc Jul 30 14:37:19 * lcuk cant search either Jul 30 14:37:31 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3519 Jul 30 14:37:33 lol Jul 30 14:37:36 thanks Jul 30 14:37:50 Browser: bugs.maemo.org, enter 3519 in the box. :P Jul 30 14:38:06 swearch: verb - to hunt for vulgar words Jul 30 14:39:05 i cant push for this bug - i havent installed it myself yet any way - though i very nearly put it on last night because i need to test something which may make my life easier Jul 30 14:39:56 lcuk: that's a reason more to vote for it, as when it is resolved you will not need to install it :) Jul 30 14:40:30 lcuk: There are links to patches attached already - check them Jul 30 14:40:31 agreed, but i have another problem - my username and apssword is not accepted Jul 30 14:40:41 lcuk: They are decent, generic patches Jul 30 14:40:44 no hacks Jul 30 14:40:59 RST38h, i know where the patches are, i have resisted so far because its not in default kernel and i dont want a customer to have to reflash kernel just to use my softare Jul 30 14:41:08 lcuk: same here Jul 30 14:41:14 lcuk: that's why to vote for such a bug ;) Jul 30 14:41:15 Kegetys, it's bluetooth Jul 30 14:41:21 lcuk: this is why these should be in the stock kernel Jul 30 14:41:39 The username or password you entered is not valid. Jul 30 14:41:40 crashanddie: ok... first point still applies though :) Jul 30 14:41:52 i cant log into bugzilla to tell them theres a bug with my useraccount Jul 30 14:41:54 i don't actually care for it myself, as i worked on the patch and have installed it anyway .. Jul 30 14:42:05 RST38h, jott agreed on all counts Jul 30 14:42:09 but still voted for it as it's a good thing for others. Jul 30 14:43:16 ok, i can loginto maemo.org but not bugzilla Jul 30 14:43:35 lcuk, email password Jul 30 14:43:40 It's not the same as Garage. Jul 30 14:44:15 ? maemo.org account is not same as bugs.maemo.org? Jul 30 14:44:31 No. . . . Jul 30 14:44:37 thats a bug in itself Jul 30 14:44:43 lcuk, no. Jul 30 14:44:47 Just STFU on it Jul 30 14:44:53 It's been discussed to death. Jul 30 14:45:08 Single sign on is pointless until we have single log on. Jul 30 14:45:22 so they need different usernames and passwords? Jul 30 14:45:26 Somebody put those patches into the bug as attachments. Jul 30 14:45:29 No. Jul 30 14:45:39 You can use the same, you just have to register separately. Jul 30 14:45:48 GeneralAntilles: links are not sufficient? Jul 30 14:46:00 Attachments are better and easier. Jul 30 14:46:11 May get out of date though Jul 30 14:46:21 But links may just disappear, mhm Jul 30 14:46:24 feel free to wrap them up ;) i added the links. Jul 30 14:46:30 Then update the attachments. Jul 30 14:46:32 linkrot Jul 30 14:46:51 Anyway, NOTMYJOB. Jul 30 14:47:05 * jott thought GeneralAntilles was the bug monkey :P Jul 30 14:47:08 Attach them or not, just my recommendation to help get things done. :) Jul 30 14:47:08 * jott hides Jul 30 14:47:21 Update the attachments - here, in XML style Jul 30 14:47:56 jott, RST38h im sorry but im not gonna play bugzilla game for now Jul 30 14:48:07 bbl Jul 30 14:48:26 Hey, what's the best way to start fresh with the n810? I just backed up my data etc using Diablo. I want to reflash etc and then restore with my backup. Jul 30 14:48:52 lcuk: it can wait :) Jul 30 14:49:09 zfigz: So, what is stopping you? Jul 30 14:49:25 yerga > it s a real pain to found all depandancies for a python script Jul 30 14:50:17 Khertan, I know ;) Jul 30 14:50:36 python-hildondesktop, python2.5-hildon, python2.5-gobject, python2.5-dbus, python2.5-osso, python2.5-cairo, python2.5-gtk2 Jul 30 14:50:39 ... Jul 30 14:51:02 but i don't understand why u don't want all module which are present in runtime Jul 30 14:51:09 as many application use python Jul 30 14:51:17 RST, I was just curious if there was anything else I should do. I've been having an issue where my memory card isn't read until I reboot. Jul 30 14:51:37 ~flashing Jul 30 14:51:38 somebody said flashing was covered at http://wiki.maemo.org/Upgrading_tablet_OS Jul 30 14:51:49 Khertan: You should always aim for the smallest amount of dependenceis. Space isn't unlimited, you know.. Jul 30 14:51:52 lcuk, just register. Jul 30 14:52:53 Khertan, if I only want install a python home applet, I don't need the bluez, conic, gnome, imaging modules Jul 30 14:53:55 andre____, you mind giving yerga editbugs? :P Jul 30 14:54:01 hum ... bluez and conic will be for the next planned applet :) Jul 30 14:54:35 if yerga tells me his email address (or at least part of it), i'd love to :) Jul 30 14:55:01 ah. got it. Jul 30 14:55:13 deserve I editbugs? :P Jul 30 14:55:20 andre____: He already follows every bug, so ;) Jul 30 14:55:26 Yes. Jul 30 14:55:35 right. saw that :) Jul 30 14:55:43 This way I don't have to read your comments to figure out what things I should do to bugs. :P Jul 30 14:55:50 You can do them yourself. ;) Jul 30 14:55:57 yerga: You must get a massive amount of mails from bugzilla btw :) Jul 30 14:56:19 X-Fade, not many Jul 30 14:56:22 yerga: now you have unlimited power, use it wisely. common sense..., blah... Jul 30 14:56:22 (damn, seems i forgot the text of the general disclaimer) Jul 30 14:56:28 50 everyday or so Jul 30 14:56:37 Yeah, I'd die getting that much spam. Jul 30 14:56:38 andre____, of course Jul 30 14:56:54 I hope don't break anything Jul 30 14:56:59 GeneralAntilles: SPAM (37329) ;) Jul 30 14:57:04 maemo bugzilla is small. i wonder about the people subscribed on *everything* in gnome bugzilla Jul 30 14:57:13 A "all updated bugs from the last 2 days" is much better suited to my needs. Jul 30 14:57:20 andre: there is procmail for such people =) Jul 30 14:57:32 RST38h, i know :) nevertheless... Jul 30 14:57:38 oups ... homeapplet is in the wrong section ... :) Jul 30 14:57:55 * X-Fade pokes Khertan with a sharp stick ;) Jul 30 14:57:58 user/accessories ? it ll be better :) Jul 30 14:58:45 andre____, it works. Thanks! Jul 30 14:58:50 in the french translation (user/office is translated to 'Bureau' which is also 'desktop' so ... never see the error) Jul 30 14:59:10 yerga: cool. thanks in advance for doing all the work now ;-)) Jul 30 14:59:50 gentlemen, do notice that utilities, tools, accessoriews are the same thing Jul 30 15:00:16 maybe you need more descriptive groups? Jul 30 15:00:35 Anybody knows how to pass the large underground pool at 3rd level of Metal Blob Solid? :) Jul 30 15:01:16 < cessories, communication, games, multimedia, office, other, programming, support, Jul 30 15:01:16 themes, tools.3 The sections in this list will appear correctly localized in the Application Manager.>> Jul 30 15:06:32 Does the wifi is directionnal on the n810 ? Jul 30 15:06:46 wifi is always bi-directional Jul 30 15:07:41 he is asking about the antenna Jul 30 15:07:56 by the way, what's the max network speed one gets when copying files over wifi on n8xx? For me it's about 500k/s although the chip advertises itself as a 54Mbit one Jul 30 15:08:30 that is kB, right? Jul 30 15:08:38 yes, kilobytes\ Jul 30 15:08:56 54Mbit == 6 megabytes/s Jul 30 15:09:01 but I get about 10 times less Jul 30 15:09:06 zap: Limited by flash write speed and cpu. Jul 30 15:09:19 hm Jul 30 15:09:28 flash reads about 5Mb/s and writes about 2-3 Jul 30 15:09:33 also effective wifi speeds are usually much slower than advertized Jul 30 15:09:33 zap: But I have seen higher speeds. Jul 30 15:09:51 all right, time to go home Jul 30 15:09:55 X-Fade: like? Jul 30 15:10:12 * zap should try iperf for n8xx Jul 30 15:12:06 my throughput is also around 500-650k/s Jul 30 15:24:51 Did the barcode/qr code app ever make it out of planning? Jul 30 15:25:50 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-barcode/ had some discussion on here a few days ago Jul 30 15:26:19 apparently it works quite well on 1d barcodes but doesn't deal too well with curvature so far Jul 30 15:29:36 thanks, my boss just started down the QR code path so I was looking to see if any maemo apps existed yet. I already have a bookmarklet for generating QR codes Jul 30 15:29:50 Anyone think flashing my n810 would resolve my issue where my n810 will not recognize removable mdea if i switch it out while it's on? Jul 30 15:30:08 generic barcode scanner that would work as well as the kaywa reader would be nice Jul 30 15:34:13 I get around 700-950KB/sec over SFTP Jul 30 15:34:35 GeneralAntilles: on a compressed file? ;) Jul 30 15:38:52 Movies and such Jul 30 15:40:47 back Jul 30 15:40:56 forward Jul 30 15:41:28 * RST38h starts chewing tape Jul 30 15:42:31 OK, ready with Brazil, Psycho, Alien and Aliens for the plane. Jul 30 15:43:09 GeneralAntilles: how long are you going to fly? Jul 30 15:43:54 1.5 + 4.25 hours Jul 30 15:44:00 Plus 2 hours in Atlanta Jul 30 15:44:06 Likely wont get through more than 2 Jul 30 15:44:15 But the rest will be for the trip back Jul 30 15:45:51 Ah,Atlanta...3 hours in line to Delta counter, 1 hours waiting for the bus, 10 hours in hotel, 2 hours in security line next day Jul 30 15:46:11 Hehe Jul 30 15:46:12 * RST38h will never forget Atlanta. Jul 30 15:46:23 I had an 8-hour layover in Atlanta last year. Jul 30 15:46:29 Atlanta sucks Jul 30 15:46:50 the line to security is pretty spectacular though Jul 30 15:47:23 when was this RST38h ? Jul 30 15:47:26 the longest line I have ever seen, including ussr Jul 30 15:47:27 any laptop searches? Jul 30 15:47:35 not that time Jul 30 15:47:46 USA will implode from its own stupidity Jul 30 15:48:01 it was in february/march Jul 30 15:48:03 I'd tell the security personnel "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" Jul 30 15:48:40 pupnik: sad thing is, that most european countries follow Jul 30 15:48:45 yes jott Jul 30 15:48:52 It amazes me how a lot of intelligent and reasonable people can allow shit like this to happen. Jul 30 15:50:08 the power of nightmares Jul 30 15:50:16 great documentary Jul 30 15:50:40 * GeneralAntilles suddenly pictures andre____ as a Pokemon master. Jul 30 15:50:41 well done... convincing etc. i wouldn't take it as the gospel truth in all detail, but it's superbly crafted. Jul 30 15:50:50 He's living every 8-year-olds dream. Jul 30 15:50:57 what the?! Jul 30 15:51:08 shall i read the backlog? guess not... Jul 30 15:51:15 Nothing interesting there. Jul 30 15:51:31 OK, Sir! ;-) Jul 30 15:51:35 s/bug/Pokemon/ Jul 30 15:51:40 10 minutes to the scott horton show Jul 30 15:51:52 they're roughly analogous. Jul 30 15:52:07 ga: how would you prevent this shit from happening? Jul 30 15:52:10 pupnik: yeah as with all political documentary always THINK while watching. Jul 30 15:52:22 RST38h: buy better politicians Jul 30 15:52:27 RST38h, a revolution. Jul 30 15:52:35 The Constitution insists upon it. Jul 30 15:52:58 the declaration of independence actually Jul 30 15:52:59 a revolution in lobbying! Jul 30 15:53:08 andre____, you may have had to have been growing up in the US 10 years ago to get the whole Pokemon thing. ;) Jul 30 15:53:10 ga: you have no money to buy politicians and no determination to revolt Jul 30 15:53:14 Er, right, thanks pupnik. ;) Jul 30 15:53:28 Me individually, no. Jul 30 15:53:31 MORE TELEVISION! Jul 30 15:53:53 GeneralAntilles, i know that stuff, and it was partially a hype here to. but i didn't care about people at that time ;-) Jul 30 15:53:55 ga: neither does socium as a whole Jul 30 15:53:56 legalize marajuana Jul 30 15:54:04 that'd solve half the problem Jul 30 15:54:11 mmmm Jul 30 15:54:25 Legalize it all. Jul 30 15:54:26 Mousey, and create 3 times as many Jul 30 15:54:39 crashanddie: right! but nobody would notice Jul 30 15:54:42 &_& Jul 30 15:54:47 Do whatever you want with your own damn body, just don't expect me to pay for the consequences. Jul 30 15:54:52 so a bug that isn't discovered isn't a bug ? Jul 30 15:55:02 99% of US non drug users surveyed said they would not try heroin or cocaine if legalized Jul 30 15:55:20 there's a big difference between saying something, and actually doing it Jul 30 15:55:28 * Mousey hugs his Battery Full icon Jul 30 15:55:52 anyway, peace Jul 30 15:55:56 * lbt has the munchies... Jul 30 15:56:03 gotta go say goodbye to some people here Jul 30 15:56:05 pupnik: you cant survey unborn babies though Jul 30 15:56:06 ttyl Jul 30 15:56:12 adios Jul 30 15:56:19 toodle pip Jul 30 15:56:35 RST38h: yeah, and there's something called individual responsibility Jul 30 15:56:39 ^ Jul 30 15:56:44 pupnik: and if you legalize this stuff, the number of addicts will likely grow with time Jul 30 15:56:47 Mostly forgotten these days. Jul 30 15:57:14 You'll also put the entire illegal drug industry out of business overnight. Jul 30 15:57:41 actually legalization would be a huge shock to wall street Jul 30 15:58:02 catherine austin-fitts did a nice presentation on how they need the drug money a few years back Jul 30 15:58:02 GeneralAntilles: "Do whatever you want with your own damn body" was also my position, but if you see friends killing themselves slowly, you have to realize that it doesn't work Jul 30 15:58:06 Anybody seen Layer Cake? Jul 30 15:58:25 andre____, well, neither does making it illegal. Jul 30 15:58:29 andre____: then you intervene, as a friend. Jul 30 15:58:31 People will get it either way Jul 30 15:58:42 Clearly government crackdowns don't work. Jul 30 15:58:56 it has Bond in it! Jul 30 15:58:57 hmm. okay, so same position. just wanted to clarify :) Jul 30 15:59:33 blah, it's a matter of education Jul 30 15:59:42 you might want to ask *why* people take drugs or drink. Isn't a lot of it escapism? The root cause of a lot of this stuff is deep down... Jul 30 16:00:05 They should read fantasy instead. *g* Jul 30 16:00:17 or play wesnoth! Jul 30 16:00:21 Piers Anthony ... Bio of a Space Tyrant.... Jul 30 16:01:18 I like On a Pale Horse Jul 30 16:01:25 Only good book in that series, unfortunately. Jul 30 16:02:00 Macroscope was good too Jul 30 16:02:16 I can't remember - I've read too many... Jul 30 16:02:20 Anthony's reflections on death were poignant Jul 30 16:02:28 And of course the rolicking Xanth Jul 30 16:02:39 (banned in the US) Jul 30 16:02:49 what is banned? Jul 30 16:02:54 (people are *naked* under their clothes!!) Jul 30 16:02:56 Xanth Jul 30 16:03:07 lol wasn't when i bought em Jul 30 16:03:08 don't you read the afterwords? Jul 30 16:03:23 some states apparently Jul 30 16:03:53 vague recollections - probably not a 'legal' ban - just the bible bashers... Jul 30 16:04:18 oh driving them out of stores? yes i vaguely recall that Jul 30 16:04:19 I want my book collection (titles) on my n800 Jul 30 16:04:51 Playing NOW on the Scott Horton Show! Fred Kaplan will discuss his article in Slate magazine, “How Much Does John McCain Really Know About Foreign Policy? Not As Much As He’d Like You to Think.” Stream here http://kaosradioaustin.org/ Irc channel ##AntiWarRadio on irc.freenode.net - CU there! http://kaosradioaustin.org:8959/kaos-64.m3u Jul 30 16:05:15 Lots of things are "banned" Jul 30 16:05:19 uh Jul 30 16:05:22 Doesn't really mean much Jul 30 16:05:39 it does to the rest of the world Jul 30 16:05:40 lbt, I have 'em on my N800. Jul 30 16:05:44 we value freedom :) Jul 30 16:05:49 what do you use? Jul 30 16:05:53 Doesn't even mean much for the states they're banned in. Jul 30 16:05:56 FBReader Jul 30 16:06:00 freedom isn't free Jul 30 16:06:07 oh, the books :) Jul 30 16:06:15 I just meant the titles Jul 30 16:06:19 Claiming anywhere really values freedom these days is a farce. ;) Jul 30 16:06:24 so I can see what I've already got Jul 30 16:06:29 true.. Jul 30 16:06:36 Europe clearly doesn't value freedom Jul 30 16:06:41 Nor does North America. Jul 30 16:06:45 #include Jul 30 16:07:02 in the UK they watch very carefully to make sure we're free. Jul 30 16:07:10 lol Jul 30 16:07:21 The UK's ban on firearms makes me laugh. Jul 30 16:07:29 not me Jul 30 16:07:58 it may make sense in the US where there is so much open land Jul 30 16:08:07 Bleh Jul 30 16:08:12 Don't get me started on that nonsense. Jul 30 16:08:27 it makes sense anywhere where free people wish to protect their freedom. Jul 30 16:08:32 there is *nowhere* in england where a gun can safely be fired outdoors Jul 30 16:08:42 Clearly the people of the UK aren't interested in that. Jul 30 16:08:44 shooting people isn't allowed Jul 30 16:08:56 nor, sadly, is elecrocuting them Jul 30 16:09:23 No one values freedom. Jul 30 16:09:26 Besides, the "space" argument is nonsense. Jul 30 16:09:39 ? Jul 30 16:09:43 There are millions of firearm owners in big cities. Jul 30 16:09:47 oh yes Jul 30 16:09:53 stupid or what! Jul 30 16:10:00 it's too late in the US Jul 30 16:10:03 Which is why we have things like gun ranges. Jul 30 16:10:14 Stupid is the UK's ban. Jul 30 16:10:17 guns are part of the culture Jul 30 16:10:29 I have *never* seen a gun Jul 30 16:10:36 other than in the airport Jul 30 16:10:38 There's a reason the firearm amendment is #2. Jul 30 16:10:54 hey, we just use gunpowder.... Jul 30 16:11:02 much better Jul 30 16:11:14 and we get fireworks in november when it's dark at nigh Jul 30 16:11:15 t Jul 30 16:11:19 (d'oh) Jul 30 16:11:47 (hmm, those fireworks are dim... oh, wait, it's July!!!) Jul 30 16:12:10 I don't know how a people can put up with having such a basic freedom as the right to defend yourself taken away from you. Jul 30 16:12:24 unarmed combat Jul 30 16:12:37 it's the difference between Rugby and American Football Jul 30 16:13:12 I'd just love to see the football pansies in a real rugby match with no armour.... Jul 30 16:14:51 Anyway, it's time for me to go. Jul 30 16:15:01 I'll be in and out over the next week or so. Jul 30 16:15:03 Later all. Jul 30 16:15:04 lol :) l8r... Jul 30 16:20:06 Hi ! Jul 30 16:20:56 x-fade > is there a way to upload to extra builder queue without using the web interface Jul 30 16:20:57 ? Jul 30 16:24:52 Khertan_n810: use sscp Jul 30 16:24:55 scp Jul 30 16:24:56 Khertan_n810: should work with dput http://extras-cauldron.garage.maemo.org/HOWTO.html Jul 30 16:26:23 scp your stuff your_account@garage.maemo.org:/var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/diablo Jul 30 16:26:31 hum last time i ve tryed connection was refused Jul 30 16:26:47 hum ... in incoming-builder Jul 30 16:26:48 do you have ssh key installed Jul 30 16:26:59 i ve do it in the wrong folder Jul 30 16:28:35 thx Jul 30 16:40:27 http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/cautionary.png Jul 30 16:40:28 lololol Jul 30 16:42:35 Hmm, CFS or anticipatory scheduler? Jul 30 16:42:44 ouch, the popup text Jul 30 16:42:56 Cptnodegard: you should link to the whole page not only to the image as it's missing the alt title this way ;) Jul 30 16:42:59 canonical url: http://xkcd.com/456/ Jul 30 16:44:09 sry, old habit Jul 30 16:47:48 anyone tried WD passport HDDs on n8x0's with USB battery for power source? Jul 30 16:59:17 hmm, i would have loved to see a geographical spread on that last labletblog vote... Jul 30 17:02:26 Can anyone answer my post? Jul 30 17:02:28 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=208604#post208604 Jul 30 17:03:41 Hi there Jul 30 17:04:14 Contacts is crappy on a good day, good luck. Your best bet is to open a bug report and maybe they can fix it for os2009 Jul 30 17:04:36 X-Fade: ping Jul 30 17:05:14 Khertan: python-hildondesktop is called python2.5-hildondesktop is diablo extras-devel ;) Jul 30 17:05:45 snowmoon, thanks for the reply. Jul 30 17:17:46 hey Jul 30 17:19:52 zfigz: is the sip number before the "@" unique or is is dependent on the SIP (gate?)? Jul 30 17:21:35 whoa, zip 3.0 has been released Jul 30 17:23:10 quick question: I have an n810, do a dual boot with diablo on my internal memory and kde on my external mini-sd? Jul 30 17:23:19 zap: O_o really? zip hasn't had any updates in ages... you do mean upstream? (InfoSys) Jul 30 17:23:32 yep :] Jul 30 17:23:36 http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=118012 Jul 30 17:23:53 and unzip 6.0 is betas Jul 30 17:24:25 *reads changelog* Jul 30 17:26:33 "fix memory bug when rebuilding Zip64 central directory extra field which can crash MinGW and other ports when processing large files. (zipfile.c)" ... aha Jul 30 17:30:11 BTW, Maemo libz is somehow broken - it won't unpack files compressed with earlier zlib versions Jul 30 17:30:14 unicode support, at last Jul 30 17:31:07 RST38h: unfortunately its part of the locked distro Jul 30 17:33:24 ugh, zip archives support bzip2 compression %-O Jul 30 17:33:43 darkip: is that a question? I don't have your device so I can't... :) Jul 30 17:34:13 hello konttori, the Nokia guy :) Jul 30 17:34:21 hi Jul 30 17:34:32 darkip: If you meant whether it's possible, then I say yes, there is a boot (manager) menu thingie available which asks you at bootup which partition you want to boot from :) Jul 30 17:37:53 zap: is there unicode support in ZIP? At least in "zipfile.c" all there is with "UNICODE_SUPPORT" is one lousy "#include" :) well, I'll read the other files properly later... :) Jul 30 17:38:08 hi konttori Jul 30 17:38:20 dannym: I read that in their changelog, haven't looked into details yet Jul 30 17:38:30 dannym: I don't see why zip would care about the content in any way Jul 30 17:38:48 it's byte based anyway Jul 30 17:39:13 dannym, I think it's the same always. Jul 30 17:39:30 dannym, sorry, I'm at work. Jul 30 17:40:31 konttori: Not in the file content, in the file names. Jul 30 17:40:33 konttori: yeah, although people use all kinds of whacky encodings in the directory in the ZIP file.. Jul 30 17:41:02 konttori: so you get like KOI8-R encoded names with "unzip -v" :) Jul 30 17:41:16 ah. well, could be an implementation detail issue. Jul 30 17:41:17 (and it says nowhere that they are KOI8-R ... AFAIK) Jul 30 17:41:29 how about tarring the content and zipping the tar? Jul 30 17:41:44 And some stuff even convmv can't fix. Jul 30 17:41:59 konttori: The problem is you are often not the one creating the archive. Jul 30 17:42:13 true enough Jul 30 17:42:15 It's handling the crazy archives other people make that's the problem. Jul 30 17:42:20 dannym: even zip 2.32 itself does that, the windows archive puts them in the ANSI codepage... Jul 30 17:43:07 zap: I see... bah... Jul 30 17:43:28 thats one of the reasons to switch to zip 3.0 :) Jul 30 17:43:46 I hope Maemo will be the first Unix distro to include pre-built packages for it :-) Jul 30 17:43:58 zap: Then Nokia has to fix it Jul 30 17:44:13 RST38h: it Works For Them {tm} Jul 30 17:44:39 VOIP ports are blocked often, aren't they? Jul 30 17:44:47 zap: They still have to fix it. And it is dead easy too, jump upgrade libz to the next minor version number Jul 30 17:45:03 zap: yeah yeah I can feel the pressure ;) Jul 30 17:45:47 dannym: I'm doing it right now :) Jul 30 17:46:26 ah, that's good then... volunteers ;) Jul 30 17:46:31 -s Jul 30 17:48:11 its part of my Make Archiving Easy in Maemo project ;) Jul 30 17:49:45 zap: So you are Andrew? nice to meet you ^^ Jul 30 17:50:03 * dannym compiles the Win32 version of ZIP 3.0 to see what it does to German Umlauts in names now... Jul 30 17:50:06 um... am I the only Andrew around? :) Jul 30 17:51:00 zap: no, but you requested membership on "zip-unzip" :) Jul 30 17:51:07 zap: and I'm Danny :D Jul 30 17:51:11 indeed :) Jul 30 17:51:43 I see the SVN is empty, thats very good :-) Jul 30 17:53:32 zap: hehehe, well we try to keep as close to upstream as possible so there was no need for our own SVN branch yet :) Jul 30 17:54:15 dannym: thats it, I'm not going to import any code to SVN, just the debian/ stuff :) Jul 30 17:54:37 (as diff from upstream, there's a small patch in the "unzip -vvv" directory listing part and a new "batch-unzip.c" (yields additional executable) but that's pretty much it) Jul 30 17:54:40 the idea is that you just download zip30.zip from sf., put it into the respective dir and run dpkg-buildpackage Jul 30 17:54:42 zap: okay :-) Jul 30 17:55:14 I'm going to split batch-unzip into a separate package, if you don't mind Jul 30 17:55:36 perhaps we can call it unzip-filemanager or unzip-fm, what do you think? Jul 30 17:55:57 zap: yeah, now that we have package management and install files, I see no reason not to split them :-) Jul 30 17:55:59 -fm Jul 30 17:56:27 Radio Unzip, 2.32 FM Jul 30 17:56:51 help Jul 30 17:56:51 zap: do you want to make an entire file-manager-like thingie? The only use case it handles right now is unzipping the entire thing into a subdir (which is the only thing I ever do ;))... Jul 30 17:56:53 :D Jul 30 17:56:59 helo everybody Jul 30 17:57:24 dannym: I already made a pretty hildonized port of XArchiver Jul 30 17:57:37 if you want, I can give you the url to the .deb so you can test it Jul 30 17:57:37 how to ignore onde package with broken dependencies on apt? Jul 30 17:58:07 dannym: but since XArchiver is a wrapper around the command-line stuff, I need to ensure there are high-quality packages for most used archivers Jul 30 17:58:11 zap: ah, cool :) sure... Jul 30 18:05:07 X-Fade: when the package promoter displays what packages in extras-devel can replace packages in extras, it uses dpkg --compare-versions? Jul 30 18:06:13 zap: hmm... http://imageupload.com/~imageupl/show.php/143215_ZIP30WindowsXP.PNG.html Jul 30 18:06:43 cool Jul 30 18:07:00 zap: see how it breaks the Umlauts while zipping... Jul 30 18:07:09 zap: ("adding: "...) Jul 30 18:07:34 indeed :) Jul 30 18:07:41 but it stores them okay? Jul 30 18:07:50 btw, how the old unzip will unpack it? Jul 30 18:08:02 zap: I'm transferring the ZIP file to the N800 as we speak :) and I'll also try that :) Jul 30 18:08:26 lol, some decrepit old woman here with an Eee. Jul 30 18:16:19 i wonder if we could combine lcuk's happy scroller code with a pdf reader Jul 30 18:16:31 yes please Jul 30 18:17:56 zap: the ZIP's directory seems to be ANSI as before :( Jul 30 18:18:53 maybe it's UTF-8? Jul 30 18:19:05 or maybe you have to enable Unicode by using some option Jul 30 18:20:38 ah Jul 30 18:21:06 I just octal dumped the thing, it removed the Umlauts completely when I tried to "unzip -v" with the old version... Jul 30 18:21:12 good :D Jul 30 18:21:19 guys Jul 30 18:21:42 i have installed one package with dependency Jul 30 18:21:50 ops not Jul 30 18:21:50 i just sold another N810 :) Jul 30 18:21:57 i have installed wvdial Jul 30 18:22:05 wvdial depends debconf Jul 30 18:22:13 debconf is not installed Jul 30 18:22:43 is possible to keep wvdial package on apt? Jul 30 18:22:54 or apt ignore this dependency? Jul 30 18:23:12 zap: so what happens is that: 1) "zip3" some file whose name contains Umlauts, 2) "unzip2 -v" on the device, it will remove the Umlauts (backwards compat probably...) Jul 30 18:23:41 zap: do you have a "unzip3" ARM binary already? :) Jul 30 18:23:55 (just the executable so I can check what it does then :)) Jul 30 18:23:58 dannym: unzip 6.0 is still beta, I think it makes sense to wait for the release Jul 30 18:24:17 zap: ah, yeah... Jul 30 18:27:49 zap: brb :) Jul 30 18:31:51 anyone have a moment to answer silly questions about OS2008 updating? Jul 30 18:32:21 Just ask. Jul 30 18:32:35 If there's somebody here to answer, they will. Jul 30 18:35:27 pupnik: ok. I'll ask here. Jul 30 18:35:30 does this really require Windows? Jul 30 18:35:46 What makes you think that? . . . Jul 30 18:35:47 No, linux or os x works. Jul 30 18:36:01 ~flashing Jul 30 18:36:01 flashing is probably covered at http://wiki.maemo.org/Upgrading_tablet_OS Jul 30 18:36:03 GAN800: Nokia telephone support Jul 30 18:36:10 Pfft Jul 30 18:36:18 I've been searchingfor a UMPC for years. Keyboard size wasn't critical, but ditching all that wasted space of touchpad was - as was battery life and ability to run a linux distro Jul 30 18:36:21 yeah, humans are useless Jul 30 18:36:21 Who calls telephone support these days Jul 30 18:36:26 that URL has no content Jul 30 18:36:26 this Nokia N810 looks perfect Jul 30 18:36:36 it's very close to perfect :) Jul 30 18:36:40 mneptok: reload, the wiki likes to give you blank pages at random Jul 30 18:36:48 pupnik: so. what obstacles would I run into in terms of getting arbitrary linux app X running on it? Jul 30 18:37:00 pupnik: and what package management system(s) does it support? Jul 30 18:37:05 situation is getting better all the time. .deb Jul 30 18:37:10 sp3000: clicking reload like an impatient grnadmother ordering socks. no dice. Jul 30 18:37:23 pupnik: 2.6.x kernel? Jul 30 18:37:33 yeah.. Jul 30 18:37:36 mneptok: the sort of reload that bypasses cache, like shift-ctrl-r on fx Jul 30 18:37:50 not that that is really that critical in terms of HW support on a umpc obviously - but impacts other stuff Jul 30 18:37:53 hey, could anyone tell how to view the arp-cache list on N810 / os08 Jul 30 18:37:53 the native UI library is hildon - a subset of GTK Jul 30 18:37:55 sweet Jul 30 18:38:07 pupnik: ... subset. subset of GTK2? Jul 30 18:38:12 what are we losing? Jul 30 18:38:14 No Jul 30 18:38:21 Extension of gtk Jul 30 18:38:26 ^ Jul 30 18:38:28 ok extension of gtk2 Jul 30 18:38:28 GAN800: superset? :) Jul 30 18:38:31 Designed for mobile use Jul 30 18:38:42 subset was rong Jul 30 18:39:01 It's Gtk with some addons for mobile stuff Jul 30 18:39:20 Generally speaking, Gtk applications can run straight. Jul 30 18:40:10 mcgorny: not sure sorry Jul 30 18:40:12 good times. Jul 30 18:40:29 how about j2me support? Jul 30 18:40:40 nemo is a programmer :D Jul 30 18:40:42 not a huge priority for me, but would be nice Jul 30 18:40:43 mneptok, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jul 30 18:40:44 mmmmooor coderrrzzzz Jul 30 18:40:53 code monkey Jul 30 18:40:59 ~no flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jul 30 18:40:59 GAN800: okay Jul 30 18:41:27 Also, pupnik said the N810 runs tethered, which is not a problem for me - but just for information, is there something comparable that doesn't require that Jul 30 18:41:28 nemo: you need to hack a bit to get j2me running, actually j2se is easier ;) Jul 30 18:41:32 or can dock? Jul 30 18:41:42 jott: doesn't shock me... Jul 30 18:41:54 jott: although I suppose I could run the Sun WTK :D Jul 30 18:42:10 or maybe strip down the sun wtk Jul 30 18:42:15 if you live in a wimax city, you might want the wimax edition. but no radio Jul 30 18:42:18 just render a screen with inputs Jul 30 18:42:19 *cell radio Jul 30 18:42:30 damn, I'd really need to see that cache, but there's no 'arp' script included & google doesn't find any packages for that either Jul 30 18:42:44 pupnik: and no plans to change that? Jul 30 18:42:54 apt-cache Jul 30 18:42:57 afaik no plans to change that Jul 30 18:43:06 GAN - adress resolution protocol Jul 30 18:43:18 Hi everyone Jul 30 18:43:33 Right then Jul 30 18:43:37 GAN800: i think he means arp as in address resolution protocol ;) Jul 30 18:43:57 yep Jul 30 18:44:08 ah pupnik was faster :P Jul 30 18:44:25 mcgorny: should be a trivial compile Jul 30 18:46:14 hmok never compiled stuff for my tablet before Jul 30 18:46:23 hi Jul 30 18:46:42 GA: Do you by any chance know if Maemo provides server space for web projects? Jul 30 18:46:51 'web'? Jul 30 18:46:55 mcgorny: it's actually in the net-tools package of the sdk Jul 30 18:47:10 Like pack rat? Jul 30 18:47:34 mcgorny: http://outpo.st/arp Jul 30 18:48:24 GA: Yep Jul 30 18:48:39 Looks like rm_you's server has got into some problems Jul 30 18:48:41 No, but get with ferenc Jul 30 18:48:48 Ok, thanks Jul 30 18:48:52 He's working on packages.maemo.org Jul 30 18:49:31 Which wont include non-maemo.org packages, but might be a good way to work on the aggregator anyway. Jul 30 18:49:45 GA: I wanted to move it somewhere stable + do some more work on it Jul 30 18:50:27 GA: One possible extension is that icon-based group aggregator, another is a script that automatically detects any package conflicts inside one repository or across multiple ones Jul 30 18:51:13 rsalveti, helo Jul 30 18:51:33 rsalveti, como esta recife? ;) Jul 30 19:01:30 * Binky is not involved in the conversation. Jul 30 19:01:39 it could be worse... Jul 30 19:01:50 Hey Jul 30 19:01:57 Are SIP ports usually blocked? Jul 30 19:02:05 smyows: quite good :-) Jul 30 19:02:07 * befr0d_ is wondering about what conversation Jul 30 19:02:11 I'm trying to use the wifi at work and gizmo isn't working (via the internet call app) Jul 30 19:02:14 but skype does work. Jul 30 19:03:35 skype uses different port, also skype seems to include an option to 'disguise' the traffic as http I believe Jul 30 19:03:50 How much money would you want for this trade? Nokia 700 + money for a N800 Jul 30 19:04:40 pupnik: since you said this thing has GPS - can I glance over the APIs for fetching the data? Jul 30 19:04:51 befr0, that's good to know. Jul 30 19:04:53 I assume they are on maemo.org somewhere? Jul 30 19:05:15 I just prefer the internet call app...and i like having my number recognized by people's caller ids Jul 30 19:06:09 nemo um... i'm not the person to ask. there is info out there Jul 30 19:06:30 pretty much just want lat/lon with precision :) Jul 30 19:06:42 bonus if I can fetch history and altitude Jul 30 19:07:21 nemo: as long as you are _really_ patient, you can have those info Jul 30 19:07:24 rsalveti, is possible to next release of operational system of n8x0 to put ppp dialer on osso-conect... Jul 30 19:07:41 back :) Jul 30 19:07:44 but to be honest, the gps in the 810 is more of a gadjet than anything else: the time it takes to hook to satellite is horrible Jul 30 19:08:48 rsalveti, i've compile new kernel with other modules to work vivozap and rebuild some debian packages (wstremer, wvdial...) to work 3g on maemo Jul 30 19:09:08 rsalveti, now works fine, but is not elegant ;D Jul 30 19:11:06 melmoth: ... on order of... Jul 30 19:11:08 minutes? Jul 30 19:11:28 melmoth: also, hopefully GPS is disableable, and when activated, what impact on battery life? Jul 30 19:11:39 if you are lucky..near the place you had it woring the last time, with good sunshine, outside and immobile.. 10mn roughly Jul 30 19:11:41 Does mc have a hex-editor? Jul 30 19:11:47 melmoth: eep Jul 30 19:12:02 melmoth: ok. that is pretty much useless. Jul 30 19:12:21 if you are trecking by foot and dont mind the first quarter of an hour, it s ok. Jul 30 19:12:33 I'm trying to create a SessionBus object in python and I'm getting "Failed to execute dbus-lanch to autolaunch DBus session". It seems like the session dbus is not running. Jul 30 19:12:54 melmoth: oh. I can actually use it to track a path? Jul 30 19:13:05 that's like my main use of GPS Jul 30 19:13:09 I believe is should be started when I start my n800. But apparently it is not. Help? Jul 30 19:13:20 it s just a gps, you do what you want with it..Some application such as maemoapper have this tracker feature already built in Jul 30 19:13:21 thiagoss: is your environment variable "DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS" set in your shell? Jul 30 19:13:26 the* Jul 30 19:13:52 you are meant to use run-standalone.sh iirc Jul 30 19:13:53 nemo: this was meant to be maemoMapper with an m :) Jul 30 19:14:07 great. Nokia tech support is about as iseful as a whistle on a duck. Jul 30 19:14:12 *useful Jul 30 19:15:23 melmoth, well that's worse than my average. on a good day i'll get a lock in 2 min. on a bad day, moving around, never. Jul 30 19:15:36 dannym, let me check Jul 30 19:16:31 pupnik: you leave in the country ? i m most of the time in city, so no big area without building around Jul 30 19:16:49 dannym, it is not Jul 30 19:17:00 But things were working until last week Jul 30 19:17:27 melmoth: in a midsize town. brick buildings. trees.. Jul 30 19:17:27 mneptok: hm. I think a whistle on a duck would be pretty handy Jul 30 19:17:52 I guess same utility as their tech support. entertainment value. Jul 30 19:18:02 grumble.. I never managed to have a lock so fast. Jul 30 19:18:19 other utility similar with their tech support. easier to find 'em when hunting them down. Jul 30 19:18:52 melmoth: that's a reason to regret the lack of cell. cell info can be really useful to locate in urban areas Jul 30 19:18:59 or anywhere else satellites are obstructed Jul 30 19:19:04 dannym, what should I do to autoset this envvar with the session bus when system is initialized? Jul 30 19:19:16 some folks who rave about their GPS don't realise their cell phone is quietly using cell tower info to supplement missing satellites Jul 30 19:20:13 i think there is something about using non gps data to help localisation on a cold start (i think the key word is agps) Jul 30 19:20:41 but i m not following this real closely (i manage to spot the most nearest kebab in town, and this is my main cause of deplacement) Jul 30 19:20:47 there is a-gps Jul 30 19:20:54 and it works, although not always Jul 30 19:21:17 RST38h: what is a-gps, and what could it be in a device without a radio? Jul 30 19:21:18 looks like you need to reboot tablet in order for a-gps to read data from scratch Jul 30 19:21:27 oh Jul 30 19:21:28 wifi? Jul 30 19:21:36 nemo: The GPS locking process consists of 3 stages Jul 30 19:21:38 Or 'tap on map' Jul 30 19:21:48 GAN: Apparently not - I tried Jul 30 19:22:06 I.e. you change location by tapping, but it only reads new data after reboot, god knows why Jul 30 19:22:14 RST38h: Restating gps + supl daemons? Jul 30 19:22:21 *restarting Jul 30 19:22:26 ooh. this has a touch sensitive screen? Jul 30 19:22:32 man. my requirements were looooow Jul 30 19:22:35 nemo: 1) getting 'almanac' (sat status), 2) getting 'ephemerides' (sat locations), 3) finding sats Jul 30 19:22:53 nemo: 1+2 will take at least 3 minutes on the best gps receiver Jul 30 19:22:55 nemo, screen is excellent Jul 30 19:22:58 lol Jul 30 19:23:11 * GAN800 can't imagine using the tablet without touch. Jul 30 19:23:12 pupnik: nifty. I seriously just wanted a teensy computer that ran linux and didn't waste real estate on touch screen Jul 30 19:23:21 this mic, camera and gps business is just gravy Jul 30 19:23:28 nemo: a-gps will read 1+2 off the net, using your GPRS or WiFi connection Jul 30 19:23:30 er Jul 30 19:23:33 s/touch screen/touch pad/ Jul 30 19:23:37 right Jul 30 19:23:41 nemo: this leaves step 3 only Jul 30 19:23:52 the power profile is also much superior to 'umpc's Jul 30 19:23:55 nemo: And step 3 is like 30+ seconds Jul 30 19:24:02 RST38h: neat. I never properly understood the underlying mechanics Jul 30 19:24:12 nemo: Check Wiki for details Jul 30 19:24:22 RST38h-san knows of many things Jul 30 19:24:30 RST38h: my understanding of speed was due to supplementing a missing sat with cell info to figure out what side of planet you were on Jul 30 19:24:37 s/many things/lotsa crap/ Jul 30 19:24:45 RST38h: didn't know they could also fetch other info ahead of time Jul 30 19:24:52 ~kids Jul 30 19:25:00 ~lart kids Jul 30 19:25:00 * infobot flings poo at kids Jul 30 19:25:02 :D Jul 30 19:25:05 nemo: well, lacking cell info, A-gps will ask you to tap your approximate location on a map Jul 30 19:25:14 RST38h: heh. cool. Jul 30 19:25:16 nemo: kinda primitive but works just as well Jul 30 19:25:19 lcuk, that's just asking for trouble. Jul 30 19:25:22 RST38h: I'll take that Jul 30 19:25:31 RST38h: hell, I hopefully only have to tell it what continent I'm on Jul 30 19:25:34 Those little bastards'll just fling it back. Jul 30 19:25:57 GAN800, not really, jake just came and sat on my knee - instead of just talkin to me, he closed everything i had open Jul 30 19:26:02 although... I guess even with just one satellite... Jul 30 19:26:04 nemo: Actually, not. The 1+2 data is valid for about 100km radius or so Jul 30 19:26:08 yeah Jul 30 19:26:10 Hahaha Jul 30 19:26:20 lcuk dun got punkd Jul 30 19:26:38 RST38h: and the GPS is easy to activate/deactivate? Jul 30 19:26:40 code - gone, irc - gone, multi page search - gone Jul 30 19:26:47 nemo: In N810? Jul 30 19:26:58 RST38h: also, since you seem knowledgeable - where are the APIs? And is there a cli query tool I could use for scripting? Jul 30 19:26:59 nemo: It gets activated automatically when some application asks for it Jul 30 19:27:01 RST38h: yeppers Jul 30 19:27:09 RST38h: and shuts down... how? Jul 30 19:27:20 i have another silly question. when I leave only the maemo-chinook repository in the application manager, then I see only like 3-4 packages that I can install. What's up with that, do I have to update something to be able to install the others ? Jul 30 19:27:21 When it's done. Jul 30 19:27:22 nemo: some time after the last app closes it Jul 30 19:27:27 gpsd Jul 30 19:27:33 it does linger for about 30-60 seconds Jul 30 19:27:39 cool, cool. Jul 30 19:27:50 nemo: I think you can just read GPS data from a pipe Jul 30 19:27:56 GAN800: dæmon with a polling tool? Jul 30 19:27:58 mcgorny, flash Diablo already. Jul 30 19:27:59 nemo: in NEMA (?) format Jul 30 19:28:10 (gpsd) Jul 30 19:28:14 nemo: But there are several APIs, search maemo.org Jul 30 19:28:30 http://maemo.org/development/documentation/apis/4-1/ Jul 30 19:29:02 marcell1: libgpsmgr ? Jul 30 19:29:11 no. that doesn't look right Jul 30 19:29:13 * nemo browses Jul 30 19:29:15 I guess so. I have not used it myself. Jul 30 19:29:40 nemo: you know python ? Jul 30 19:29:52 melmoth: avoided it so far. Jul 30 19:30:02 melmoth: my interpreted languages are perl, php, javascript Jul 30 19:30:15 and I suppose pl/sql if you want to get technical Jul 30 19:30:15 thiagoss: "dbus-launch xyz" Jul 30 19:30:56 main langages for maemo are C and python for scripting. Jul 30 19:30:58 GAN800: ok, hopefully the other stuff I have will be reinstallable then ;P Jul 30 19:31:04 there is a gps api in python described somewhere Jul 30 19:31:21 thiagoss: for example "exec dbus-launch ssh-agent xfce4-panel" in "xinitrc"... I'm speaking generally, it should be done automagically by the distribution... Jul 30 19:31:43 dannym, ok, thanks. I'll take a look Jul 30 19:31:54 melmoth: guess I'll learn it if it comes to it Jul 30 19:32:01 melmoth: I'm sure there are perl libs too :-p Jul 30 19:32:37 not so sure about perl libs for the gps binding Jul 30 19:33:16 vala seems to be coming nicely together, so if you want something in between python and c, that's a good alternative. Jul 30 19:33:33 or genie even more so, as it's python syntax vala. Jul 30 19:34:04 If I needed to write something with C, I'd use vala instead. Jul 30 19:34:06 nemo: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/python_gps_examples/index.html Jul 30 19:34:13 konttori: that might help with (1) - 1) python pisses me off on the arrogance of forcing my formatting and forbidding one-liners 2) CPAN is still way more comprehensive Jul 30 19:34:18 If I needed to write something fast, I'd still use python Jul 30 19:34:27 melmoth: oh, I'm sure I'll figure it out if I have to Jul 30 19:34:30 konttori: why not perl? Jul 30 19:34:31 just wish python would die though Jul 30 19:34:43 we have ruby for the tablets too nemo Jul 30 19:34:49 I like the forced formatting. Jul 30 19:34:57 pupnik: hmm. another interpreted language I haven't dipped into. Jul 30 19:35:08 pupnik: might try that one. pity Python is better with big num Jul 30 19:35:09 I think that's one of those you either like or truly dislike things Jul 30 19:35:09 i do not think any of the other scripting langaue come with a gpssomething binding anyway.... Jul 30 19:35:18 not a hildon one for that matter Jul 30 19:35:30 When you all die and get into Hell, the Satan will make you program MUMPS. Jul 30 19:35:37 http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaemo.org+perl+gp Jul 30 19:35:38 dannym: what's the .cbz extension? why it's listed as application/x-zip-compressed ? Jul 30 19:35:41 ... gps Jul 30 19:35:41 well, I think python is just more suitable for any UI like coding than perl. Jul 30 19:35:59 UIs are overrated =) Jul 30 19:36:02 zap: comic book zip Jul 30 19:36:07 %-O Jul 30 19:36:09 hm. none of those appear to be libs Jul 30 19:36:10 zap: was a feature request Jul 30 19:36:14 zap: :D Jul 30 19:36:15 But when you need pattern matching, nothing beats Perl Jul 30 19:36:23 RST38h: that's just regex Jul 30 19:36:32 dannym: thanks god you did not include that manga viewer into the unzip package :-o Jul 30 19:36:39 RST38h: I prefer perl syntax too - but then, I like javascript syntax. pity cli javascript is not there yet Jul 30 19:36:48 RST38h: prototyping rocks Jul 30 19:36:48 RST38h: about the re-reading data after a reboot, that's not correct Jul 30 19:36:50 zap: of course not :) Jul 30 19:37:00 I've seen it in the postinst hook :) Jul 30 19:37:00 qt has nice javascript support Jul 30 19:37:11 RST38h: it will re-read the supl message as long as the gps is not up Jul 30 19:37:26 you can do pretty much everything on javascript on qt Jul 30 19:37:37 zap: actually the manga viewer thingie is kinda obsolete since the builtin image viewer stopped being stupid :) Jul 30 19:38:08 RST38h: step 3 should also really be "finding sats and establishing accurate time" ;) Jul 30 19:38:15 dannym: :) Jul 30 19:38:33 I like the quiver image viewer a bit more, although it does not see my bluetooth phone Jul 30 19:38:51 quiver++ Jul 30 19:39:00 gqview a bit faster but not hildonized yet Jul 30 19:39:11 quiver ftw Jul 30 19:39:21 gqview died, unfortunately Jul 30 19:39:57 zap: i believe there is a way of entering your phones mac manually in quiver Jul 30 19:40:11 mac? Jul 30 19:40:36 I think thats because quiver does not use gnome vfs api Jul 30 19:41:20 zap: bluetooth address then if you will Jul 30 19:41:42 and where I should enter it? Jul 30 19:42:18 file > open location. i think it's some like obex://14:25: etc Jul 30 19:42:27 let me check... Jul 30 19:45:26 way too clumsy anyway :) Jul 30 19:45:43 :) Jul 30 19:45:54 konttori: re: qt JS hooks - using, presumably khtml as the interpeter? Jul 30 19:46:00 interpreter Jul 30 19:46:26 nemo: no, QtScript Jul 30 19:46:51 jott: oh. that's a new one by me. decent SDK? Jul 30 19:47:28 Hi ! Jul 30 19:47:32 nemo: http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qtscript.html Jul 30 19:48:09 jott: this is just a wrapper Jul 30 19:48:34 [5~ Jul 30 19:48:35 jott: doesn't say QtScript is an interpreter. Appears to call a wrapped QScriptEngine which could be presumably khtml or gecko or whatever. Jul 30 19:48:51 Qt Script is based on the ECMAScript scripting language, as defined in standard ECMA-262. Jul 30 19:49:41 jott: I'm familiar with ecmascript and have the ecma-262 spec handy. what you're linking me to shows demos of using a QScriptEngine, but there is no reference to extensions in an SDK. Jul 30 19:49:52 jott: looks like just a generic hook Jul 30 19:50:08 nemo: no. it IS an ECMASCript implementation. Jul 30 19:50:15 jott: ... well sure. that's fine Jul 30 19:50:21 jott: obviously QScriptEngine has to call something Jul 30 19:51:13 jott: ecmascript itself though is pretty useless for anything except very self-contained operations Jul 30 19:51:22 jott: can't interact with filesystem, network or other devices. Jul 30 19:51:25 just read the page i linked Jul 30 19:51:32 jott: I'm reading. Jul 30 19:52:46 http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qtscriptextensions.html - guess that's what I'm looking for Jul 30 19:52:54 now I just need to find a list of standard extensions I guess Jul 30 19:53:26 rm_you, ping Jul 30 19:54:15 yep. still thin on fun stuff. but can look elsewhere. Jul 30 19:54:20 jott: thanks for reference though Jul 30 19:54:20 zap: hmm.. what does the quiver image viewer do differently? Jul 30 19:54:32 nemo: what are you after? Jul 30 19:54:44 jott: this is sorta like the rhino docs Jul 30 19:54:53 jott: explains how to invoke JS from inside an existing framework Jul 30 19:55:20 jott: what I would like is something more like perl and python (or gecko). an interpreter that can be thrown at a file or commandline, and comes with a large well defined SDK Jul 30 19:56:48 jott, I've got another idea for rm_you to implement for me. :D Jul 30 19:58:17 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080730/ap_on_re_us/woman_in_bathroom Jul 30 19:59:46 wtf Jul 30 19:59:53 nemo: you could basically do something like this with qtscript. but in the end qtscript has another focus ;) Jul 30 20:00:33 jott: sure. I could obviously make a small wrapper program for that Jul 30 20:00:41 jott: although I'd still have issue of setting up that SDK Jul 30 20:01:04 jott: the qtscript focus does seem similar to rhino Jul 30 20:09:05 hello Jul 30 20:10:57 nemo: you might also be interested in kross. Jul 30 20:12:16 jott: interesting, but appears to require I lug around KDE Jul 30 20:12:33 but useful for that I guess Jul 30 20:12:40 kinda like windows scripting host Jul 30 20:13:35 nemo: http://xmelegance.org/kjsembed/examples/cmdline/cmdline.js Jul 30 20:14:43 nemo: or http://xmelegance.org/kjsembed/examples/sql/sql.js :) Jul 30 20:17:18 jott: ok. so kjscmd does *NOT* require running KDE? :) Jul 30 20:17:31 jott: or the dæmons the desktop uses? Jul 30 20:17:35 as, say, a KDE app would require? Jul 30 20:17:39 nemo: just the libs for kli stuff (maybe some more packages). Jul 30 20:17:49 cli Jul 30 20:17:59 but in the end you don't need a running kde session. Jul 30 20:18:17 * nemo looks for a package that provides it Jul 30 20:18:29 (to be honest i never used it just read about it ;) Jul 30 20:19:51 [ N] kde-base/kjsembed (3.5.9): KDE javascript parser and embedder Jul 30 20:19:53 that looks like it Jul 30 20:24:04 nemo: there should also be a kde 4.1 version of it. Jul 30 20:24:55 nemo: kde4libs-bin in ubuntu Jul 30 20:40:18 One more task off my list for today... Jul 30 20:42:51 what? Jul 30 20:48:27 nothing special, just doing various work Jul 30 20:49:04 960x240 LTPS LCD Jul 30 20:49:14 Heh, they measure horizontal resolution in pels Jul 30 20:49:56 I have qwerty12 kernel with rotation, I have xomap-xserver (the required version) installed, I have last adv-backlight insatalled, but the rotation doesn't work. When I click on the adv-backlight, the buttons for rotation are not there. what I'm doing wrong? Jul 30 20:52:08 paul_anagrama: when the buttons are missing you have the wrong xserver. Jul 30 20:52:58 * RST38h is reading datasheet on a poor man's OMAP Jul 30 20:53:18 A knockoff, not a real thing of course Jul 30 20:53:44 jott, thanks :-) Jul 30 20:55:01 in red-pill mode is showing that there is an OS2008 Feature upgrate - 9.1 MB, should I upgrade? Jul 30 20:56:11 Has got PCMCIA controller, how is that?!? Jul 30 20:59:27 sleeep... Jul 30 21:00:22 This thing can work as a desktop replacement. Jul 30 21:00:58 RST38h, quite a lot of embedded devices nowadays can Jul 30 21:01:13 yes, but it got everything down to PS/2 port Jul 30 21:01:32 heh Jul 30 21:01:48 ah, it is not ARM, it's a MIPS Jul 30 21:04:42 and it has got a video accelerator Jul 30 21:06:44 oops, my ssh key doesn't work with garage anymore Jul 30 21:06:52 I was banned? Jul 30 21:07:34 RST38h: is this something you can name, or is it NDA Jul 30 21:10:04 pupnik: ICNexus 26x0 series SoC Jul 30 21:11:32 wonder what intel wants with that Jul 30 21:11:44 ttyl Jul 30 21:12:18 Intel has nothing to do with this Jul 30 21:13:27 why someone would want a 960x240 LCD, and how this can replace a desktop Jul 30 21:13:37 this could replace an HP-42 calculator perhaps Jul 30 21:13:53 they count width in pels Jul 30 21:14:01 it is really 320x240 Jul 30 21:14:47 or its 960 greyscale Jul 30 21:17:13 goodnight all Jul 30 21:17:30 lcuk: dream on =) Jul 30 21:17:31 * zap shudders imaginig his display would do 320x240 Jul 30 21:17:54 * RST38h programmed for 128x96 display once Jul 30 21:17:55 RST38h, :) not everyone thinks in colo Jul 30 21:18:04 color even Jul 30 21:18:16 lcuk <-- YUV man =) Jul 30 21:18:21 Y :) Jul 30 21:18:31 i came for the black and white text Jul 30 21:18:44 i have no need for color (apart from my sketching :D) Jul 30 21:19:19 I came to release you of colors, I am teh Grayscale man! Jul 30 21:20:40 I always liked The Woz story about how he figured out how to output to a color monitor without the normal stuff to do it. Jul 30 21:21:01 that sounds familiar Jul 30 21:22:28 Proteous: solder two more rows of DRAM on top of the existing one? Jul 30 21:23:20 ? Jul 30 21:24:37 not being an itt inhabitant - does anyone know of any threads there discussing the logos? Jul 30 21:24:43 He was able to generate the required analog signal with the correct timing just using the few chips he had available, no dedicated DAC Jul 30 21:25:25 oh, that... Jul 30 21:25:39 but you don't really need DAC for NTSC Jul 30 21:25:51 NTSC is all timings anyway Jul 30 21:26:16 the cool part wasn't that he did it, it was how he did it Jul 30 21:26:18 RST38h: ditto on the 128x96 - that was just last month actually Jul 30 21:26:40 the stuff that other people were using at the time was exspensive Jul 30 21:26:46 expensive Jul 30 21:26:55 What year was it? Jul 30 21:27:01 btw, it's colour :P Jul 30 21:27:04 :P Jul 30 21:27:14 2008 Jul 30 21:27:21 what year did you think it was? Jul 30 21:27:36 'cause Atari 2600 appeared in 1977 and it did NTSC just fine Jul 30 21:27:42 first colour display ? Jul 30 21:27:53 wasn't expensive at all, used MAIN CPU to output video signal Jul 30 21:28:20 hello Jul 30 21:28:46 the was before that Jul 30 21:28:57 think, homebrew computer club Jul 30 21:28:59 apple 1 Jul 30 21:29:10 computers cases built of wood Jul 30 21:29:15 wirewrap it yourself Jul 30 21:29:26 atari had a wooden facia Jul 30 21:29:31 lol Jul 30 21:29:32 true Jul 30 21:29:38 btw Jul 30 21:29:52 Computers have always been colour enabled :P Jul 30 21:30:07 I remember the screens being green on black, or orange on black Jul 30 21:30:10 that's colour to me :P Jul 30 21:30:21 Even white on black is colour :P Jul 30 21:30:21 ewwww them were the days: shrek porn Jul 30 21:30:29 hahaha Jul 30 21:30:36 looks like we didn't evolve that much Jul 30 21:30:50 i thought i was a fossil Jul 30 21:31:02 btw Jul 30 21:31:10 notice how "the matrix" made green on black cool Jul 30 21:31:24 like somehow it was a revelation Jul 30 21:31:27 bah, my ssh sessions have been green on black since before the matrix Jul 30 21:31:44 I went through an orange on black faze too Jul 30 21:31:53 i best get my head back into code anywa Jul 30 21:31:55 phase Jul 30 21:32:04 lcuk, take car Jul 30 21:32:09 or bus Jul 30 21:32:10 * lcuk sets fazer to stun Jul 30 21:32:44 thats almost fonzified :D Jul 30 21:33:04 you're the fonz Jul 30 21:33:26 don't go jumping any sharks now Jul 30 21:34:24 Back in the day, lcuk was the cool guy, with the torn leather jacket, the 50cc bike, jeans so tight his testicles... well, you get the picture Jul 30 21:34:28 LCUK IS THE FONZ Jul 30 21:35:11 I'll stfu now Jul 30 21:35:25 actually, it was manchester inthe 80's - i had jeans so baggy i could fit my waist in the legs Jul 30 21:35:44 wait Jul 30 21:36:10 in 2000, I was 14 Jul 30 21:36:23 which means in 1990, you were 15 Jul 30 21:36:28 if 1990 i was 15 Jul 30 21:36:47 i aint *that* old Jul 30 21:37:08 man Jul 30 21:37:10 I was 4 Jul 30 21:37:12 * lcuk still gets called liam gallagher Jul 30 21:37:13 in 1990 Jul 30 21:37:48 I mean, you must've had your first look at penthouse when I was being assembled Jul 30 21:38:59 nahhh Jul 30 21:40:25 /alias lcuk Bernie_Barker Jul 30 21:40:27 :D Jul 30 21:41:54 ..? defies words. even safe search did not protect my eyes Jul 30 21:44:06 am I too late to abuse lcuk too? ;) Jul 30 21:44:16 is it ever Jul 30 21:44:20 ? Jul 30 21:44:26 nah, true :) Jul 30 21:44:27 shurrup gramps Jul 30 21:44:53 soy espaola Jul 30 21:45:30 deisi, language in this channel is English Jul 30 21:45:46 deisi: hello Spanish girl Jul 30 21:45:52 * lcuk wonders what he did Jul 30 21:46:22 to receive the abuse, or change the language? :) Jul 30 21:46:22 simon, i am actually thinking about a problem which you may be able to put your mind to Jul 30 21:46:30 uurgh Jul 30 21:46:33 its mathematical :) Jul 30 21:46:34 go on then :) Jul 30 21:46:55 i am revisiting multitouch Jul 30 21:47:06 hello Jul 30 21:47:31 the aim this evening is for me to take a 1 dimensional set of data points and identify the finger points over time Jul 30 21:47:53 how is the data presented? Jul 30 21:48:10 is there some raw form which might give multitouch abilities? Jul 30 21:48:12 collection of data points - can be an arbitary array, but its variable in time Jul 30 21:48:23 ok Jul 30 21:48:30 deisi, hi, how can we help you ? Jul 30 21:48:31 at present ive got [x,y,z,t] Jul 30 21:48:36 z=pressure ;) Jul 30 21:48:56 right Jul 30 21:48:56 how precise is the pressure information ? Jul 30 21:49:00 now, when ive tried in the past ive been attempting to work with the whole 2d matrix Jul 30 21:49:30 ~600 to ~100 units from "are you touching me" to "MEDICCCCCCC!" Jul 30 21:49:54 possible to make some kind of scale ? Jul 30 21:50:01 Could be useful for those cops in germany Jul 30 21:50:13 they could use it to measure how much weed someone's carrying Jul 30 21:50:14 the data is very scattered - when you press the second finger the weight distribution spreads and you get a data point at the centre of mass Jul 30 21:50:36 doubt it Jul 30 21:50:53 yeah but from what i've seen it tends to jump rapidly between the two points Jul 30 21:51:03 leave it for a second, look at the screen, it reads "let him walk", next guy, the screen reads "busted, call Fox, we need the Cops crew" Jul 30 21:51:03 depending on pressure Jul 30 21:51:14 yes rm - thats the centre of mass shifting Jul 30 21:51:19 right Jul 30 21:51:22 it does it with a single finger, but only within a tiny radius Jul 30 21:52:52 I'll be back in a small hour, then I'll be heading to bed Jul 30 21:52:54 im gonna see what i can do tonight to identify it and try a few equations out - but ill build a mini test lab to see it all. if i get nowhere quick simon, would you take a peek and see if you can manage anything? Jul 30 21:52:56 cheers if I don't catch ya again Jul 30 21:53:06 simon ? Jul 30 21:53:11 lardman Jul 30 21:53:15 oh Jul 30 21:53:24 being intimate and everything, are we ? Jul 30 21:53:37 lardman, how's your cat ? Jul 30 21:53:47 somehow seems wrong to call him lardman in public rl, so i got used to simon Jul 30 21:53:59 sorry, had to go get a spider Jul 30 21:54:01 especially when lardwoman was there :P Jul 30 21:54:09 lol Jul 30 21:54:56 sailing close to the wind there! ;D Jul 30 21:55:13 yer i know lol Jul 30 21:55:31 so does it oscillate between the two points, or somewhere between the two depending on the pressure of your fingers? Jul 30 21:56:18 it waves between the two depending upon pressure - and its wildly variant at times Jul 30 21:56:27 I have a horrible feeling that unless you can get people to always tap with the same pressure, you're got too many variables Jul 30 21:57:31 i can get a rotated eclipse of pressure data - and i think i can know when it expands or contracts Jul 30 21:57:35 how is the pressure measured? If you hold one finger on, then hold another somewhere else, does the pressure measured go down -> is it averaged, or added? Jul 30 21:57:39 which should be good for maps Jul 30 21:58:31 you get a data XY at the centrepoint of the 2 fingers (assuming perfect touches) and i believe its lighter pressure but i never looked Jul 30 21:58:31 ah ok, so look at the time history, decide from the random behaviour that it's multi-touch, then look at how the data changes to see whether the fingers are moving together/apart? Jul 30 21:58:48 yes - thats how im thinking Jul 30 21:58:58 sounds interesting Jul 30 21:59:29 your widget will need to filter the tap/mousedown events and do its own processing then Jul 30 21:59:38 ill see if i can give you a testlab Jul 30 21:59:41 yes Jul 30 21:59:43 will be annoying if you also want to do single taps in that area Jul 30 21:59:53 laggy Jul 30 21:59:56 but thats ok, the mouse event will simply return single touch Jul 30 22:00:14 its only once the stroke goes bonnkers do you know its a 2touch Jul 30 22:00:19 yeah, but you'll need to look at the time history to decide if it's single or multi-touch Jul 30 22:00:50 think of the map - the single touch will just floatmove anyway - like the book reader bit of liqbase grab hold and move document Jul 30 22:00:56 if you then go bonkers it just zooms Jul 30 22:01:47 for this device i fear the biggest problem is not technical, but pyhsical - the screen is simply too tacky to use with finger pads Jul 30 22:02:05 it might need thimbles to work cleanly ;) Jul 30 22:02:12 :) Jul 30 22:02:24 or wait for a multi-touch version to come out... Jul 30 22:02:28 or is it all patented? Jul 30 22:02:38 i dunno Jul 30 22:02:44 i wouldnt like an apple screen though Jul 30 22:02:55 res? Jul 30 22:03:01 looks quite nice though Jul 30 22:03:13 have you tried using a stlus on the apple ipod you have? Jul 30 22:03:27 could you imagine handwriting or sketching on it? Jul 30 22:03:50 they have lots of things, but touch on that device is too fat and imprecise Jul 30 22:04:53 ah, ok, I've not tried and I can't find it atm Jul 30 22:05:04 hehe - you cant even use a fingernail Jul 30 22:05:10 its the wrong type of touchscreen Jul 30 22:05:16 or wear gloves ;) Jul 30 22:05:42 anyway, it was just on my mind - if i get anything setup tonight ill give you a shout tomorrow Jul 30 22:06:01 lcuk: there is most likely a pen that is usable with the iphone touchscreen Jul 30 22:06:19 yer, ive got a battery powered one for my other tablet Jul 30 22:06:21 lcuk: ok Jul 30 22:06:39 hi jott Jul 30 22:06:52 back later folks :) Jul 30 22:07:01 night lcuk Jul 30 22:07:01 hey lardman how is it going? Jul 30 22:07:09 lcuk: bye :) Jul 30 22:07:14 jott: not bad, you? Jul 30 22:07:18 thanks lardman gnite yourself **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 30 22:09:09 2008 Jul 30 22:09:14 expensive! Jul 30 22:09:50 I had a look at the pdf417 (stacked 1D barcodes) code this morning, it expects a b&w image as input, and it should be aligned correctly Jul 30 22:09:54 if you pay your monthly iphone bill you won't notice :P Jul 30 22:09:57 lardman: according to mac cultists, expensive=holy! Jul 30 22:10:16 jott: ah, ipod touch and it's the gf's Jul 30 22:10:25 RST38h: :) Jul 30 22:11:02 [and I am NOT joking, once had to argue with some nutcase complimenting Jobs on how nicely and pleasantly He makes him spend money on iPhone services] Jul 30 22:13:57 TSA Confiscates Homemade Battery and Water Bottle, Declares Victory Over Terror! Jul 30 22:14:07 and these barcodes differ in size, but from a rough calculation, that needs to be aligned to ~1.4 degrees Jul 30 22:16:11 lardman: it would also be nice to have a set of preprocessing filter. Jul 30 22:16:29 and plugins, plugins! Jul 30 22:16:41 (in Python, of course) Jul 30 22:17:06 plugins would be good, yes, so people can slot in whatever type of handling they want Jul 30 22:17:35 jott: Looking at the datamatrix code it actually follows the edge, this might be the best bet Jul 30 22:17:45 unless I can hold my hand very still Jul 30 22:18:06 and the pre-processing will be the big thing - will look at the 1D code you added to see how to clean up the input data Jul 30 22:18:24 i guess the biggest problem is out-of-focus handling. Jul 30 22:18:35 the current code just uses a moving average Jul 30 22:18:50 is out of focus that big a thing? The images looked ok to me Jul 30 22:19:04 on n810 this is Jul 30 22:19:28 yeah here too.. it's not *much* but given that the bars have a small spacing in the first place... Jul 30 22:20:17 would be painful having to do a sharpen filter on the data though, computationally Jul 30 22:20:27 lardman: yeah :( Jul 30 22:20:42 but, I don't actually know how long it would take, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad Jul 30 22:20:44 well i wonder if it would work on 320x240 images. Jul 30 22:21:23 because 640x480 sucks alot of cpu. Jul 30 22:21:27 (the camera alone) Jul 30 22:21:39 the other thing is to just sharpen the line in question Jul 30 22:21:56 or rather that line using that + ones above & below Jul 30 22:21:58 lardman: yeah well i guess we could reduce the number of scanlines alot Jul 30 22:22:05 currently every 4th row is taken Jul 30 22:22:23 it would probably enough to consider only every 16 rows or so. Jul 30 22:22:37 I don't think 1D is a problem though, it works pretty well and is quick Jul 30 22:22:45 and with that it seems reasonable (atleast for the 1d) to apply filters only on the scanline Jul 30 22:22:54 (and some adjacent lines) Jul 30 22:23:05 lardman: yeah still could be better ;) Jul 30 22:23:23 was rm_you having troubles because of blurry images or was it something else? Jul 30 22:23:39 hm blurry, and curvature Jul 30 22:23:43 jott: leave the optimisation until the rest of the app works I reckon Jul 30 22:23:54 1D optimisation that is Jul 30 22:25:24 I'll have to have a play with it Jul 30 22:25:35 am feeling a bit left out being away for a week ;) Jul 30 22:25:51 * jott still does not really care about anything but ean13 :) Jul 30 22:26:06 * lardman wants it to be complete Jul 30 22:26:25 and he also sees quite a few datamatrix & stacked barcodes and wants to know what they say Jul 30 22:26:35 hehe Jul 30 22:26:39 so what about ean handling then? Jul 30 22:26:54 there's a database currently? What does it do? Contain lookups? Jul 30 22:27:16 lardman: yeah it's the database from upcdatabase.com which contains mostly us/uk products. Jul 30 22:27:26 how large is it? Jul 30 22:28:34 isbn lookup would be simple enough to add, it's easy to calculate Jul 30 22:29:00 assuming we can find a db, or fallback to the web (which should also happen with the unknown eans) Jul 30 22:29:36 yeah would also be nice to allow manual data entry that can be submitted to upcdatabase Jul 30 22:29:46 true Jul 30 22:30:31 955377 items are currently in there Jul 30 22:30:36 minus a bit of spam ;) Jul 30 22:30:53 This afternoon I was using the camera application and feeding the .jpg's to a QR code webapp Jul 30 22:30:54 then we just need a web guru to write some code to ask Amazon, etc., how much these things cost and their reviews and we'll be just like AndroidScan ;) Jul 30 22:31:14 brontide: how did it work? Jul 30 22:31:22 how well that is Jul 30 22:31:28 I can post one of the images, quite well Jul 30 22:31:33 lardman: we could use switch to qt for the gui, this would make everything fairly easy ;) Jul 30 22:31:55 :) Jul 30 22:32:08 Is maemo switching, did I miss something important? Jul 30 22:32:09 lardman: python is also fine, kerthan is working on some bindings. Jul 30 22:32:48 yeah python would be good, nice and easy for people to add stuff in Jul 30 22:33:55 lardman: in the long term it's not unlikely ... but for now we soon have nice hildonized qt ;) Jul 30 22:34:10 I saw that bit Jul 30 22:34:21 well, makes no odds to me really, as long as it works well Jul 30 22:34:56 http://picasaweb.google.com/ericewarnke/Web/photo?authkey=46QGTgmVhCU#5228939015032733170 Jul 30 22:35:26 one thing we will need to do is work out whether we can run each barcode decoder sequentally until something gets a match, or if that will be too slow and we need to use quick tests to provide hints as to the barcode type Jul 30 22:36:11 brontide: that's not the image you were trying to decode is it? Jul 30 22:36:13 lardman: hm well i guess it will be too slow. it's at 100% cpu already with 640x480 :( Jul 30 22:36:26 lardman: worked perfectly Jul 30 22:36:34 jott: yeah, but will lots of runs thougth the 1D code Jul 30 22:36:43 brontide: from that, impressive Jul 30 22:36:47 zxing Jul 30 22:36:51 http://zxing.org/w/decode.jspx Jul 30 22:37:38 I'm impressed Jul 30 22:38:04 Yeah, i was surprised as well... although much further back and it started to fail Jul 30 22:38:09 hm maybe we should really port zxing to c/c++ :) Jul 30 22:38:23 zxing is already availible for c/c++ Jul 30 22:38:26 oh Jul 30 22:38:29 QR codes only though Jul 30 22:38:38 ah, ok. still nice. Jul 30 22:41:10 What's with all the Objective C stuff? Jul 30 22:41:56 brontide: is this what you're talking about? http://zxing.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/cpp/core/src/ Jul 30 22:42:11 Yep Jul 30 22:42:33 I believe that's the engine being used on the webpage Jul 30 22:42:34 lardman - did you see this? http://junk.kegetys.net/mobile_gaming.jpg Jul 30 22:42:39 looks like they do processing to overcome any distortion Jul 30 22:42:58 pupnik: :) Jul 30 22:43:41 is there a guide for partitioning the internal memory on the n810 for setting up a dual boot? Jul 30 22:44:45 The other python library I saw also used opencv ( computer vision ) to do cleanup/distortion processing http://www.pedemonte.eu/pyqr/usage.html Jul 30 22:45:06 yeah opencv would be another option Jul 30 22:45:08 ( once again QR codes ) Jul 30 22:46:17 can we just use "extern "C"" and use the library? Jul 30 22:46:52 Oh... and in case you need some more fodder I made a bookmarklet. Just click on the bookmark and the current URL is translated into a QR code http://www.rit.albany.edu/~ew2193/test.html Jul 30 22:47:21 Hi everyone Jul 30 22:47:41 Does anyone here have notion of apps porti Jul 30 22:47:50 Porting* Jul 30 22:47:50 now i only have to see a qr code in rl :) Jul 30 22:48:23 I'll pay for porting TuxGuitar or Jokosher Jul 30 22:48:56 jott: I seem to remember reading that it was being ported to C++ for Symbian, or something like that Jul 30 22:49:23 lardman: zxing or what are you speaking of? Jul 30 22:49:48 iPhone even; yes zxing Jul 30 22:50:15 then that's probably objc ;p Jul 30 22:50:24 Thanks to google generating QR codes is easy http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?chs=360x360&cht=qr&chld=L|0&chl=https%3A//wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2008 Jul 30 22:50:29 http://code.google.com/p/zxing/wiki/FrequentlyAskedQuestions says both Jul 30 22:51:01 yeah in the end the actual algorithm shouldnt be that hard to port ;) Jul 30 22:52:15 I think the C/C++ backend is targeted for iPhone ( hence the Obj-C ) Jul 30 22:53:02 porting is boring though Jul 30 22:53:33 but easier than making it up oneself (though not as interesting) Jul 30 22:53:42 anyway, time to hit the sack for me Jul 30 22:53:43 yeah when it's only a matter of 30-40 mins its ok. everything longer is annoying ;) Jul 30 22:53:50 It's okay, I haven't been doing a strict port. Jul 30 22:53:58 Anyone: will it work on tablets if i compile from source an app for another architecture like x86 Jul 30 22:54:03 derf: as long as it works we'll be happy :) Jul 30 22:54:05 Though the zxing QR code support looks heavily based off the qrcodes project. Jul 30 22:55:01 night all Jul 30 22:56:48 hrhr.. German (yellow press) TV just talks about "Did we actually land on the moon?" ;-) Jul 30 22:57:06 * Binky was looking for an answer Jul 30 22:57:58 Binky: If you compile for (the right) arm architecture and the dependencies re in place on the device: Should work Jul 30 22:58:05 Blafasel, in Spain, the NASA anniversary notice took all this week until today Jul 30 22:59:13 Blafasel, i meant to compile for x86... I'll have to look furthr, thank you. Jul 30 22:59:21 Binky: Interesting. This TV stuff is kind of supporting the "It never happened" pov. But - well.. TV over here is worse than reading slashdot at -1 ratings.. Jul 30 23:00:16 Binky: Compiling for x86 on the tablet? Same thing: Would work (assuming the right and working toolchain, some patience etc.) Jul 30 23:00:44 Here tv instead of black and white is pink and yellow... Jul 30 23:01:53 I love how they completely stripped the copyright statement of the old Reed-Solmon coder they stole, then converted it into C++ with tons of dynamic allocation and other overhead, fixed at least one of the bugs, and then introduced more of their own. Jul 30 23:05:52 derf, I'm sorry, what are you talking about ? Jul 30 23:06:00 derf, what was the source language, C++ ? Jul 30 23:07:53 derf, so basically, lemme get this straight. You're bitching because someone took someone else's code, rewrote it in another language with a completely different memory allocation design, and with completely different bugs ? Jul 30 23:07:59 I mean, REALLY ? Jul 30 23:08:55 I could understand you're whining about copyright infringement if there happened to be the same bugs, or the same design flaws Jul 30 23:11:24 The original source language was C, possibly already translated into Java, depending on where they stole it from. Jul 30 23:11:31 But really, that part was just icing on the cake. Jul 30 23:11:43 I'm mostly laughing at the amount of effort put into to it to make it worse. Jul 30 23:13:21 well, I'm always very cautious when accusing someone from stealing code Jul 30 23:13:27 not that I had to up till now Jul 30 23:14:30 crashanddie: Having read both the original C and the Java port, I can assure you this was based on it. Jul 30 23:14:32 but was the code stolen and used in a closed proprietary app, or into another oss block? at worst the credit can be returned, i don't see it as a big deal Jul 30 23:14:40 jott / lardman|gone : yeah switching to python /QT would be nice Jul 30 23:14:47 and slow Jul 30 23:14:47 No, it wasn't a big deal, as I said, "Icing on the cake." Jul 30 23:14:53 and I am planning on doing Amazon web scraping for ISBN/UPC Jul 30 23:14:54 lcuk, +1 Jul 30 23:15:06 I don't get the whole python thing, really Jul 30 23:15:44 python will go down as one of the dead babies of the geeky boom Jul 30 23:15:54 i agree that oss code should be attributed, its good practice to respect the shoulders you stand upon Jul 30 23:16:12 no, python makes it very good to create and modify objects Jul 30 23:16:17 but some code NEEDS low level Jul 30 23:16:20 when prettiness becomes one of the selling arguments of a scripting/programming language, you know some guy got funky on crack Jul 30 23:16:21 lcuk: it's not only good practice but a legal issue. Jul 30 23:16:47 jott: A lot of people care a lot more about manners than laws. Jul 30 23:16:55 jott, like i said - put the notice back up Jul 30 23:17:28 derf: yeah well it is bad manner AND a copyright infrigment Jul 30 23:17:47 although, technically jott - you are right, the author of a GPL app can sue the fraudulant authors of another gpl app Jul 30 23:18:03 but i wonder whether statutary damages would apply? Jul 30 23:18:12 lcuk: it's like copying a commercial binary. Jul 30 23:18:34 yes, gpl can be commercial Jul 30 23:18:49 it's copyright infringement... Be it of a free piece of something or something you pay for shouldn't make any difference Jul 30 23:19:00 lcuk: no, stealing code, is like pirating a closed source app. Jul 30 23:19:08 that's my point. Jul 30 23:19:48 there is no big difference. not even in a legal sense. Jul 30 23:19:54 this irc bouncer idea was genius :D Jul 30 23:20:24 it's just awesome to have the exact same PMs on my NIT and laptop... No problems with copy/paste :D Jul 30 23:20:26 ok, agreed jott :) they shouldn't have done it Jul 30 23:20:50 lcuk, I just made swapper half less useful :D Jul 30 23:21:44 :) oh, you are letting everyone logon to the bouncer? Jul 30 23:22:02 heh Jul 30 23:22:20 no, not quite Jul 30 23:22:47 jott: Well, in all honesty, most lawyers evaluate legal issues based on the potential damages. Jul 30 23:23:11 And one open source project stealing from another is not likely to amount to much in the way of damages. Jul 30 23:23:40 derf: yeah well you won't get millions of dollar probably. Jul 30 23:23:44 but you can legally enforce it. Jul 30 23:23:49 I mean, it would take a real asshole to even go to court over that. Jul 30 23:24:17 And judges aren't generally interested in letting assholes extract their pound of flesh. Jul 30 23:24:24 depends upon if you want customer sales revenue, but what if you solved problems in your codebase to obtain grants and donations Jul 30 23:24:52 derf: why an asshole? i mean when the other guy uses some other license and does not react on friendly emails? Jul 30 23:24:54 using the code for google soc position Jul 30 23:25:01 and you want your code to be gpl.. Jul 30 23:25:13 when I try to partition my n810's internal memory when I reboot i'm told the card is corrupted/unformatted, any ideas? Jul 30 23:25:25 i can't see why it would be a problem to legally enforce a copyright notice. Jul 30 23:25:41 this is in part related to gpl 3 now isnt it Jul 30 23:25:45 lcuk, I'd love to, but Freenode doesn't allow many clones, I'd have to walk up to Freenode on behalf of Maemo, don't think anyone's gonna let me do that :P Jul 30 23:26:18 oh, i thought you had a server with your own cloning/merging Jul 30 23:26:46 jott: Well, if the infriger doesn't bother to take any steps when confronted with the infringement, then yeah (in which case they are the asshole). Jul 30 23:26:57 give us all YOUR account, we can all solve the cut n paste problem, but that may introduce other issues Jul 30 23:27:14 But a normal person, when told, "You're infringing my copyright, please fix that or I'll sue you," will add an attribution. Jul 30 23:27:21 agreed derf, you have spotted something valid, mail them Jul 30 23:27:35 derf: well but that's a question of behaviour. Jul 30 23:28:04 jott: It's a question of risk. Jul 30 23:28:17 derf: why? Jul 30 23:28:20 * lcuk has gpl license available in scrolly window in liqbase :) Jul 30 23:28:25 It's very easy to strip off a copyright notice, and the risk that that will come back to bite you in any serious way is small. Jul 30 23:28:42 At worst, you add the attribution back in. Jul 30 23:28:54 lcuk, I'm guessing each one would want one nickname, which still means one single connection to freenode even if it's for multiple guys connecting to my server (the bouncer)... But I dunno how many different nicknames Freenode allows... 2? 5? 10 ? So that's max 10 people I can host Jul 30 23:29:10 nahhh, we can all be crashanddie for a day Jul 30 23:29:19 on second thoughts, who would want to be you :P Jul 30 23:29:24 exactly Jul 30 23:29:32 I suspect this goes on a whole lot more in the open source world than people think. Jul 30 23:29:37 I mean... No one can bear this level of perfection :P Jul 30 23:29:43 excepted me, of course Jul 30 23:29:46 derf, and i suspect it doesnt actually matter Jul 30 23:29:49 (I suspect it also goes on even more in the proprietary world, but there it's harder to track) Jul 30 23:30:12 derf, remember the issue of Microsoft using FOSS in their binaries ? Jul 30 23:30:16 derf: well if you change the license it can get a bit more difficult. Jul 30 23:30:18 its all expanding the gpl universe and a "please be polite" should be sufficient Jul 30 23:30:29 crashanddie: And 50 million other small embedded developers. Jul 30 23:30:41 lcuk: Yes, this is what I'm saying. Jul 30 23:30:53 derf: and it is good manner not to sue anyone without contacting him. Jul 30 23:31:15 not without ? Jul 30 23:31:25 heh Jul 30 23:31:25 so it's good manner to sue someone and contact him ? Jul 30 23:31:30 or get some of your minions to descend upon their website and borl him over with OTT demands to attribute the author Jul 30 23:31:36 crashanddie: :P Jul 30 23:31:38 jott: Yes, only an asshole would do that, which was my original point. Jul 30 23:31:39 bowl^ Jul 30 23:31:55 crashanddie: dawn your native tongue :P Jul 30 23:32:05 wut ? Jul 30 23:32:08 native ? Jul 30 23:32:15 im vanishing again for a bit :) have code in my head Jul 30 23:32:23 derf: and my point is that the asshole is still in the right. Jul 30 23:32:37 lcuk, btw, what do you run on ? Jul 30 23:32:39 (not making him less an asshole) Jul 30 23:32:45 what do you mean? Jul 30 23:32:52 computer wise? Jul 30 23:32:57 lcuk, well, you keep having code in your head Jul 30 23:33:07 what do you have running in your head ? x86 ? Armel ? SPARC ? Jul 30 23:33:08 ive had code in my head for years :) Jul 30 23:33:15 jott: Yes, but the legal system tends to frown on people who act like that. Jul 30 23:33:17 natively its 68k Jul 30 23:33:23 ouch Jul 30 23:33:50 not really, 8 data and 8 address regs, a flat memory model Jul 30 23:33:58 32bit native Jul 30 23:34:24 sounds just like the omap :) Jul 30 23:34:33 derf: hm? like all the riaa/music industry cases? :P Jul 30 23:34:36 um, do we have any decent whiteboarding with chat for N8x0? Jul 30 23:34:52 jott: Yes, something like that. Jul 30 23:34:54 pupnik, we will have hopefully soon Jul 30 23:35:01 jott: Or the SCO cases. Jul 30 23:35:15 though, chat might be better using the main keyboard still Jul 30 23:35:16 or vid Jul 30 23:35:17 that could be neat lcuk Jul 30 23:36:05 anyway, back later Jul 30 23:36:09 cheers Jul 31 00:03:06 if I needed GPS, does someone know of a fast, barebones, cheap extra gps module to pair for n8x0? Jul 31 00:13:30 btw, guys Jul 31 00:13:33 I just noticed something Jul 31 00:13:42 teleportation Jul 31 00:13:43 it exists Jul 31 00:14:32 I'm flying out from Perpignan at 5:25 PM, landing in London at 5:30PM Jul 31 00:14:42 That's what, a thousand miles in 5 minutes ? Jul 31 00:18:28 crashanddie: that's way too long for teleportation, it should be a matter of *seconds* :p Jul 31 00:18:43 well, it's a start, isn't it ? Jul 31 00:18:46 I mean, we're getting there Jul 31 01:44:08 jott: kjscmd wants dcop. was afraid of that Jul 31 01:45:22 nemo: you should take the kde4 version as i said probably after you started emerge ;) (which should use dbus etc) Jul 31 01:51:23 jott: dunno what portage you're using, only one version of kjsembed in standard. Jul 31 01:52:31 nemo: not really using gentoo anymore. got impatient ;), otherwise a great distro. Jul 31 01:52:43 heh, same here Jul 31 01:53:13 Gentoo: Love hating it, Hate loving it Jul 31 01:54:02 nemo: it might also come with kdelibs .. Jul 31 01:54:38 don't know how granular the split-ebuilds are of kde4. Jul 31 01:56:16 jott: ... well. kjsembed is its own ebuild. if you're recommending a newer version of it... dunno. Jul 31 01:56:22 seems if it needs dcop, it needs dcop Jul 31 01:56:25 un point c'est tout Jul 31 01:57:08 nemo: in ubuntu it's also an extra package for kjsembed but the kde4 version is part of kdelibs4-bin. i assume gentoo might have an similar split-up. Jul 31 01:57:21 (but better ask in #gentoo or #gentoo-kde ;) Jul 31 01:58:08 hm. so upgrade entire kde just to try out a javascript interpreter Jul 31 01:58:11 I'll wait, thanks :-p Jul 31 01:58:34 hehe, that's what you get for building all from source :) Jul 31 02:40:44 jott: upgrading to new version of desktop is unpleasant in any distro Jul 31 02:40:56 jott: especially if it has not been flagged stable Jul 31 02:41:09 jott: my doing so on my mom's ubuntu system was a long and unpleasant battle Jul 31 02:41:30 and I didn't have a choice, there. some idjit broke the sound system pre-hardy **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 31 02:59:57 2008