**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 05 02:59:57 2008
Aug 05 03:35:12 <Trencher|> :( anyone have a deb with libperl-dev? or some way to get one compiled?
Aug 05 04:01:50 <ChuangJiang> I'm building OpenOffice.org for the platform of ARM on the ScratchBox environment. I've got the following error message:
Aug 05 04:02:12 <ChuangJiang> checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error:         cannot run C compiled programs.
Aug 05 04:02:20 <ChuangJiang> Could you give me any advice? TIA.
Aug 05 04:39:43 <Macer> m
Aug 05 04:39:56 <Macer> ok.. i have no idea wtf is going on with bluez trying to connect to my n95
Aug 05 04:40:01 <Macer> it's driving me up the wall :)
Aug 05 04:40:52 <Macer> anybody here have nit-debian working with bt?
Aug 05 05:03:29 <Trencher|> ok then...
Aug 05 05:03:35 <Trencher|> i've built perl
Aug 05 05:03:49 <Trencher|> how can i package it for installation on the tablet?
Aug 05 06:41:02 <Trencher|> ...
Aug 05 06:41:31 <Italodance> ..
Aug 05 06:42:56 <Trencher|> .
Aug 05 06:49:13 <Trencher|> >.<
Aug 05 06:56:40 <bef0rd> what!
Aug 05 06:58:02 <liri> has anybody played before with Roadmap (gps app)?
Aug 05 06:58:07 <bef0rd> no
Aug 05 06:58:47 <bef0rd> I've played with ines, pretty nice :P
Aug 05 06:59:18 <bef0rd> g'night.
Aug 05 07:02:21 <liri> night bef
Aug 05 07:04:04 <Trencher|> so.. yeah
Aug 05 07:07:43 <Trencher|> I want to run irssi on my os2008 nokia 770. i have sbox and it is set up with chinook targets. i am building perl for it, because the included perl is barebones..
Aug 05 07:08:21 <Trencher|> i want irssi to include the libs it needs from the perl build, if possible..
Aug 05 07:08:35 <Trencher|> and then find a way to move the compiled irssi to the 770
Aug 05 07:08:51 <hrw> morning
Aug 05 07:09:10 <Trencher|> morning.
Aug 05 07:11:27 <Trencher|> is that feasible?
Aug 05 07:15:42 * terbo has irssi on his n800 .. from deb ..
Aug 05 07:16:22 <Trencher|> the deb
Aug 05 07:16:23 <Trencher|> is down
Aug 05 07:16:24 <Trencher|> :(
Aug 05 07:16:48 <Trencher|> http://www.komputika.net
Aug 05 07:16:58 <Trencher|> also, no perl
Aug 05 07:17:03 <Trencher|> possibly no proxy
Aug 05 07:17:49 <terbo> yea. :/ i'm setting up sb, so we'll see ...
Aug 05 07:18:11 <Trencher|> the default sb perl install for maemo
Aug 05 07:18:21 <Trencher|> is very little
Aug 05 07:18:23 <Trencher|> has nothing
Aug 05 07:18:24 <Trencher|> lol
Aug 05 07:19:25 <Trencher|> i mean
Aug 05 07:19:26 <Trencher|> i got ssh
Aug 05 07:19:28 <Trencher|> screen
Aug 05 07:19:29 <Trencher|> bash
Aug 05 07:19:33 <Trencher|> nano
Aug 05 07:19:36 <Trencher|> almost set for a shell
Aug 05 07:19:40 <Trencher|> all i need is irssi
Aug 05 07:21:42 <terbo> eh, i ssh out.
Aug 05 07:22:59 <Trencher|> the point is i want to ssh IN
Aug 05 07:23:27 <Trencher|> it's a slow comp with inet access. i'll stick it on a port and instant shell for cents a day
Aug 05 07:25:27 <Trencher|> on a completely unrelated note
Aug 05 07:25:36 <Trencher|> what do you guys do while waiting for compiling
Aug 05 07:25:37 <Trencher|> lol
Aug 05 07:25:55 <aquatix> good moaning
Aug 05 07:25:55 <Trencher|> i suggest a game called cortex command. good stress relief.
Aug 05 07:25:59 <Trencher|> good morning
Aug 05 07:26:34 <XTLi> Mood gorming
Aug 05 07:26:49 <terbo> good mournin
Aug 05 07:29:03 <liri> lo aquatix
Aug 05 07:36:47 <lbt> 'lo
Aug 05 07:38:12 <tlkg> evening
Aug 05 07:38:30 <liri> mornings, evenings, whats the difference
Aug 05 07:38:39 <tlkg> true
Aug 05 07:38:48 <terbo> the smell of the air
Aug 05 07:39:12 <terbo> a lot more sweat in the evenings.
Aug 05 07:39:16 <tlkg> ive got a question... is there a way to set up cron on the n810?
Aug 05 07:39:55 <tlkg> i want to run bashpodder
Aug 05 07:40:11 <terbo> yes, but i wonder if it would interfere with power saving
Aug 05 07:40:58 <tlkg> hmm...
Aug 05 07:41:09 <XTLi> Generally cron is said to be a poor fit for a battery device like this
Aug 05 07:41:29 <XTLi> I think many try to do without
Aug 05 07:42:09 <tlkg> i would like something that would automatically download new podcasts.
Aug 05 07:42:33 <tlkg> i dont want to have to start an application at all. just leave it on the table when i come home and it takes care of the rest.
Aug 05 07:44:28 <terbo> sounds ideal.
Aug 05 07:44:40 <XTLi> Maybe there's some hook you can use
Aug 05 07:44:57 <XTLi> In the wlan connections or such
Aug 05 07:46:46 <tlkg> you think that if there was only one thing set up with cron that it would really be a problem with the powersaving stuff? lets say i have it update at 4am only...
Aug 05 07:48:14 <terbo> :) go for it. its not a bad idea.
Aug 05 07:49:44 <XTLi> Typical crons would probably still run stuff every hour
Aug 05 07:49:45 <hrw> make application sleeps until it is 4am, fetch, sleep (time to 4am)
Aug 05 07:50:00 <Trencher|> .. finished building perl. no libperl
Aug 05 07:50:06 <XTLi> Sleeping would probably be better
Aug 05 07:50:08 <Trencher|> what do i build to get that?
Aug 05 07:50:08 <qwerty12> haha, typical nokia. Ask them why they close source to stuff that really doesn't need to be and don't get a reply back. Tossers.
Aug 05 07:50:24 <XTLi> Can you rig more than alarms to that timer thingy?
Aug 05 07:50:34 <hrw> sleeping sounds like cron anyway
Aug 05 07:50:56 <aquatix> tlkg: try finding out how the rss reader does it?
Aug 05 07:50:57 <tlkg> hmm... im not sure about the timer thing. didnt think of thta
Aug 05 07:51:27 <aquatix> qwerty12: :/
Aug 05 07:51:27 * terbo ponders why such a trivial and beneficial application is beyond todays technology ..
Aug 05 07:51:33 <XTLi> I think at services are also done withb cron if foss os's
Aug 05 07:51:52 <tlkg> aquatix, there is one, syncpod, that uses bashpodder at the backend.
Aug 05 07:52:10 <tlkg> with no crontab i was unsure of how to automate it.
Aug 05 07:52:33 <aquatix> tlkg: yeah, that's why i suggest looking at how the maemo rss reader does its updates
Aug 05 07:52:46 <aquatix> it triggers on turning on wifi, but also has periodic checks when online
Aug 05 07:53:40 <qwerty12> aquatix, I ask why the memory applet is closed source and I really have no idea why because it reveals nothing about how the internals of the tablet work, which I can understand as they use some of the same parts in their phones, they want to keep hidden. But the memory applet just displays a few bars and can make a file called .swap on the memory card. Command line tools for doing the same are open source. They opensourced ke-recv which actua
Aug 05 07:53:40 <qwerty12> lly enables swap if the swap file is present.
Aug 05 07:54:05 <qwerty12> Hell, even the control panel itself is open source.
Aug 05 07:54:40 <lbt> XTLi: have you seen http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo-20080625/source/alarmd-0.5.20/
Aug 05 07:55:05 <lbt> http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo-20080625/source/alarmd-0.5.20/README
Aug 05 07:55:45 <qwerty12> If you want to do what aquatix said, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/o/ is a brilliant start
Aug 05 07:56:30 <XTLi> lbt: I probably have. That looks suitable
Aug 05 07:56:52 <trickie|work> morning
Aug 05 07:57:14 <hrw> qwerty12: it is not closed.
Aug 05 07:57:17 <XTLi> Doesn't rely on scripts, I think
Aug 05 07:57:25 <hrw> qwerty12: it is just not opened
Aug 05 07:57:48 <qwerty12> Any difference?
Aug 05 07:57:55 <hrw> qwerty12: thats different thinking
Aug 05 07:57:57 <lbt> all the src is there - so it could be extened to fix a few of the shortcomings
Aug 05 07:59:14 <XTLi> Runs in g event loop
Aug 05 08:02:02 <XTLi> Would be some work to grok that all, but quickly it seems fit
Aug 05 08:02:14 <XTLi> At least it should fit the device
Aug 05 08:03:21 <qwerty12> trickie|work, morning, I've looked at the patches you've collected (nice list!) and I know of a couple more. http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/patches/op_patch.diff - This one is brilliant, it lets you change the op mode on the fly instead of recompiling a new kernel each time. This one may be included for "fun" purposes (maybe it will get noticed more) http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/946765.diff - PowerVR driver that can only power up the
Aug 05 08:03:21 <qwerty12>  chip. Doesn't do much else so useless for the majority of people. And http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=124726&postcount=8 - A little patch by fanoush to enable make menuconfig
Aug 05 08:03:57 <trickie|work> qwerty12: cool
Aug 05 08:04:00 <trickie|work> ill add them to the list
Aug 05 08:04:02 <trickie|work> thanks
Aug 05 08:05:11 <qwerty12> trickie|work, also, I've compiled a kernel with the V4l2 fix, some person were saying it was slower, let see if I can find the thread
Aug 05 08:06:37 <aquatix> qwerty12: sounds stupid not to opensource that applet indeed
Aug 05 08:08:20 <trickie|work> qwerty12: maybe add the feedback (even if it is just links) to the bug
Aug 05 08:08:23 <trickie|work> qwerty12: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2491
Aug 05 08:09:01 <qwerty12> aquatix, yeah :(
Aug 05 08:09:10 <qwerty12> trickie|work, will do if I can find it >.<
Aug 05 08:09:15 <trickie|work> yeah np
Aug 05 08:09:18 <trickie|work> i gotta run
Aug 05 08:09:22 <trickie|work> thanks for the links
Aug 05 08:09:27 <qwerty12> np
Aug 05 08:10:14 <RST38h> qwerty: Had a talk with timeless yesterday night
Aug 05 08:10:50 <RST38h> qwerty: Shown him that browserd shaves about 16.6% off MicroB loading time, in other words, it is useless
Aug 05 08:11:01 <qwerty12> Hah, great
Aug 05 08:11:10 <RST38h> qwerty: Of course he denies everything, but it is to be expected
Aug 05 08:11:57 <qwerty12> It just adds to memory used which makes it worse. With the gui + engine together, memory usage was decent but browserd + ui just = slowness
Aug 05 08:12:14 <RST38h> qwerty: If possible, could you try starting MicroB and measuring time between clicking in the menu and the moment it shows "Connecting" message?
Aug 05 08:12:40 <qwerty12> RST38h, I wish I could :( but my tablet is dead atm. I need to buy a charger :/
Aug 05 08:12:47 <RST38h> qwerty: And measure this with 12MB browserd copy loading and without it (i.e. kill it before starting microb)
Aug 05 08:12:52 <RST38h> oh
Aug 05 08:13:17 <RST38h> all right, I guess we should gather these measurements from a few more people  so spread the word =)
Aug 05 08:13:30 <pupnik> too many
Aug 05 08:13:32 <qwerty12> ok :)
Aug 05 08:15:32 <qwerty12> Hmm, anyone know which packages make up chinook microb? I've got the rootfs on my desktop, I'm not averse to dpkg-repack
Aug 05 08:17:27 <lbt> RST38h: set up a wiki page with instructions on what you need, what packages to load and how to perform the tests. I'm off out now so I'll miss any irc chat.
Aug 05 08:17:54 <RST38h> lbt: Will make a post to itt
Aug 05 08:18:01 <lbt> ugh
Aug 05 08:18:39 <lbt> I hate bbs posts - you have to read through every post to assemble the info
Aug 05 08:18:50 <lbt> do a wiki page and post a link :)
Aug 05 08:19:11 <lbt> that way the info can be seen and edited by others too :)
Aug 05 08:19:22 * lbt likes wikis
Aug 05 08:19:34 * lcuk3 likes moderated comment trees
Aug 05 08:19:59 * lbt likes trees
Aug 05 08:20:05 <lcuk3> i would love to boil down a conversation in threaded form to produce a really good wiki article
Aug 05 08:20:22 <lbt> yep - that's my point
Aug 05 08:20:29 <lcuk3> ala slashdot +5 informative posts
Aug 05 08:20:31 <RST38h> lbt: yes, but then you see the whole thing, nobody can edit it out
Aug 05 08:20:31 <lbt> it's why I did the RAID wiki
Aug 05 08:20:56 <lbt> RST38h: and for logs of government decisions, that's valid ;)
Aug 05 08:20:56 <lcuk3> normal forum is cack for that, the s/n is too low, but slash can be made quite concise and to the point
Aug 05 08:21:32 <lcuk3> mornin by the way - im not actually here
Aug 05 08:21:47 <lbt> well it's clearly not you.
Aug 05 08:21:51 <lbt> ah hi lcuk
Aug 05 08:21:56 <lcuk> now its me :)
Aug 05 08:22:12 * lcuk wriggles into his uniform
Aug 05 08:22:22 <Trencher|> :(
Aug 05 08:22:28 <qwerty12> yep, I can tell. lcuk3 was green coloured and now as lcuk, you are a camp pink :P
Aug 05 08:22:30 <RST38h> lbt: I am pretty sure in this case it applies
Aug 05 08:22:34 <lbt> and RST38h, that's what the history is for... :) - go on, give it a go....
Aug 05 08:22:46 <RST38h> lbt: it all feels very messy to me
Aug 05 08:22:51 <lcuk> qwerty12, i can has ponies?
Aug 05 08:22:52 * RST38h tried, didn't like wiki at all
Aug 05 08:22:57 <lbt> I was just meaning instructions to run the tests you propose
Aug 05 08:23:07 <lbt> not the debate on the results!!!
Aug 05 08:23:19 <lbt> that's forum/list/irc stuff
Aug 05 08:23:21 <lcuk> then someone will post a link on the forum and all the good intentions will go away
Aug 05 08:23:32 <RST38h> hehe
Aug 05 08:23:34 <qwerty12> lcuk, youse can haz glock
Aug 05 08:23:57 <lbt> no, you misunderstand - wiki up a HOWTO, then post "do this and debate"
Aug 05 08:24:17 <lbt> then when someone says "but, this test is flawed"
Aug 05 08:24:22 <lbt> you update the wiki
Aug 05 08:24:40 <lbt> and don't force me to read 5000 posts of flamage to see the modifiaction to the HOWTO
Aug 05 08:25:07 <lbt> anyhow - just a suggestion... :D
Aug 05 08:25:17 <lcuk> and then you get 10 pages of people saying their results work better than the first 5 pages of responders (cos they posted and tried the fixed version without re-reading the forum info)
Aug 05 08:25:58 <lbt> pillocks
Aug 05 08:26:01 <lbt> :)
Aug 05 08:26:07 <lcuk> :D round and round
Aug 05 08:26:22 <lbt> exactly - on a forum/list
Aug 05 08:26:35 <qwerty12> I should have typed in knobs just before lcuk got his sentence in...
Aug 05 08:26:37 <lbt> meanwhile the wiki evolves and doesn't devolve
Aug 05 08:26:40 <lcuk> i dont think you can ever win - forums are the evil, but people kinda understand them better than a single wiki
Aug 05 08:26:53 <lcuk> have you read thedailywtf
Aug 05 08:26:55 <lbt> forums are for sheep
Aug 05 08:27:07 <lbt> and bikeshedding
Aug 05 08:27:37 <lcuk> they have a nice way of presenting articles:  heading article then a selection of features comments (the informative stuff)
Aug 05 08:27:40 <lbt> people too dozy to bottom-post
Aug 05 08:27:58 <lbt> that's not nice!!
Aug 05 08:28:10 <lbt> it's a conversation, not a reference
Aug 05 08:28:30 <XTLi> Web forum = broken as designed
Aug 05 08:28:34 <lbt> it's like debating freedom from first principles when someone asks what the speed limit is
Aug 05 08:28:39 <lcuk> it improves the s/n though and could be a better halfway house for forums
Aug 05 08:28:50 <lbt> I don't friggin care about the debate - I want the answer
Aug 05 08:29:03 <lbt> distil the debate and record it
Aug 05 08:29:18 <lcuk> it would allow someone to build a wiki from this page after its all died down
Aug 05 08:29:25 <lbt> and wikis are nothing more than a web page with a built in ftp command
Aug 05 08:29:51 <lbt> That's what the naff 'discussion' will evolve into IMHO
Aug 05 08:30:03 <lbt> so a wiki page will become the article
Aug 05 08:30:10 <lbt> and the forum is the adjunct
Aug 05 08:30:29 <lcuk> agreed, we see if lots on news sites
Aug 05 08:30:49 <lbt> but the article is never(?) open to the community
Aug 05 08:30:59 <lbt> so the info is never distilled
Aug 05 08:31:02 <lcuk> they "add" the commenting functionality which is often just a forum with an automatic thread for the article
Aug 05 08:31:10 <lbt> that's my real complaint
Aug 05 08:31:54 <lbt> anyhow - got to go pick up the car - new catalysts after the old ones imploded
Aug 05 08:31:59 <lbt> l8r
Aug 05 08:32:01 <lcuk> i dont think a slick smoothone shot interface has been discovered yet
Aug 05 08:32:03 <lcuk> cya
Aug 05 08:32:48 <qwerty12> So, who wants to buy this car? http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh10/runfast800/gangsta2.jpg
Aug 05 08:34:03 <qwerty12> Hmm, nice, http://www.eff.org/testyourisp/switzerland . I think bulldog is capping my RS speeds, the knobs that they are.
Aug 05 08:38:28 <RST38h> Here, folks: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=210322#post210322
Aug 05 08:38:58 <RST38h> qwerty: I have a CRV
Aug 05 08:39:15 <qwerty12> I hope it's not like that one...
Aug 05 08:39:20 <RST38h> qwerty: It accelerates like a trolley car. Very nice versatile car otherwise.
Aug 05 08:39:26 <RST38h> no, mine is non descript
Aug 05 08:39:44 <qwerty12> cool
Aug 05 08:40:15 <RST38h> Gentlemen, please check the itt post and act, if you want to prove that Nokia has been wrong on this one
Aug 05 08:50:57 <aquatix> off-topic, but omfg, Star Wars gangsta rap: http://www.atom.com/fun_games/gangsta_rap_se/
Aug 05 08:52:47 <Khertan> Hi !
Aug 05 08:53:26 <hrw> hi Khertan
Aug 05 08:53:57 * Khertan is happy ! alarm now works on mCalendar
Aug 05 08:53:59 <Khertan> :)
Aug 05 08:54:15 <qwerty12> Ha, great :)
Aug 05 08:54:24 <Khertan> and with maemo alarm ... not something that need to stay open like GPE Calendar :)
Aug 05 08:55:05 * Khertan just need to verify sync with gcal
Aug 05 08:55:12 <qwerty12> Well, fiferboy did patch the applet so you could close gpe calendar. But does mCalendar use alarmd?
Aug 05 08:55:24 <Khertan> yes i use alarmd
Aug 05 08:55:34 <qwerty12> Brilliant :)
Aug 05 08:55:43 <hrw> qwerty12: gpe alarms needs gpe-calendar or gpe-summary running
Aug 05 08:55:56 <Khertan> not very difficult as osso binding for alarmd is available
Aug 05 08:56:22 <qwerty12> hrw, true but I did say patch the applet. my bad for not saying applet is gpe-summary :/
Aug 05 08:56:29 <Khertan> the most difficult was to find in google api where reminder is :)
Aug 05 08:56:55 <hrw> ah
Aug 05 08:57:24 <aquatix> Khertan: neat
Aug 05 08:57:33 <aquatix> Khertan: please package the latest version :)
Aug 05 08:57:55 <pupnik>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM1qCZY5q_4  Primus Too Many Puppies Live (Psychedelic Vers)
Aug 05 08:58:56 <Khertan> aquatix> before packaging it ... i need to make some test
Aug 05 08:59:07 <Khertan> aquatix > but this ll be for today
Aug 05 08:59:12 <Khertan> when i come back to home
Aug 05 08:59:16 <pupnik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p86TeS41dY  Primus - Too Many Puppies
Aug 05 08:59:24 <Khertan> i ve also refresh a bit the gui
Aug 05 09:00:24 <RST38h> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/04/AR2008080402415.html?nav=rss_email/components
Aug 05 09:00:29 <Khertan> aquatix > so you use mCalendar ?
Aug 05 09:00:53 <RST38h> This, actually, is pretty relevant with respect to internet tablets
Aug 05 09:01:48 <Khertan> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22570
Aug 05 09:06:12 <liri> can I not browse with the File Manager in the actual system paths (i.e: /usr/share/ etc...)
Aug 05 09:06:36 <liri> I seem to have only a Nokia N810 folder with subfolders like audio clips, documents, etc and an Internal memory card folder
Aug 05 09:06:44 <liri> and I've no idea where both are actually located
Aug 05 09:07:00 <qwerty12> Nokia N810 = /home/user/MyDocs
Aug 05 09:07:16 <qwerty12> (the images etc folders are hidden with a . prefixed in front)
Aug 05 09:07:26 <qwerty12> Internal memory card = /media/mmc2/
Aug 05 09:07:51 <liri> ahh much clearer
Aug 05 09:07:56 <liri> so the file manager doesn't show hidden files?
Aug 05 09:08:02 <qwerty12> No :(
Aug 05 09:08:24 <pupnik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krmowThBYUk  Hello Skinny by The Residents
Aug 05 09:08:38 <qwerty12> If you want a proper file manager, I can happily recommend zap's build of midnight commander or pipeline's build of emelfm2
Aug 05 09:09:07 <liri> thanks ill check those too
Aug 05 09:09:50 <qwerty12> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21657&highlight=midnight - midnight commander (also available in extras)
Aug 05 09:10:10 <qwerty12> Emelfm2 - http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18462&highlight=emelfm2
Aug 05 09:13:07 <qwerty12> +osso-af-utils (2.0-1) unstable; urgency=low
Aug 05 09:13:07 <qwerty12>   * First Fremantle version.
Aug 05 09:13:07 <qwerty12> -  * Drop libesd dependency and use libcanberra instead. Fixes: NB#87262
Aug 05 09:13:37 <qwerty12> Nice, Fremantle better be available for the N8x0 or I'm going to murder in Espoo :P
Aug 05 09:13:58 <X-Fade> qwerty12: Lol ;)
Aug 05 09:14:39 <X-Fade> qwerty12: There is no reason to think it won't be available for N8x0.
Aug 05 09:14:45 <aquatix> Khertan: i don't use it yet, but it sounds like it's getting interesting for me :)
Aug 05 09:15:06 <aquatix> Khertan: currently i'm using my symbian/uiq3 smartphone as sole calendar
Aug 05 09:15:25 <qwerty12> X-Fade, I keep my fingers crossed :)
Aug 05 09:16:24 <X-Fade> qwerty12: I guess there will be open beta tests of the sdk, so you should see that far in advance.
Aug 05 09:17:10 <qwerty12> That's nice :). If not, then hopefully, there will be a /updates/fremantle/ directory somewhere... ;)
Aug 05 09:18:04 <Khertan> aquatix > hehe
Aug 05 09:18:30 <Khertan> X-Fade> i hope too that freemantle will be available for n8x0 :
Aug 05 09:18:31 <Khertan> :)
Aug 05 09:18:41 <Khertan> is there somewhere what is planned for ?
Aug 05 09:18:47 <Khertan> is there somewhere a list of what is planned for ?
Aug 05 09:19:10 <X-Fade> Khertan: Well, you can read the wiki. There are some clues in there ;)
Aug 05 09:19:22 <Khertan> ah ... not a stupid idea :)
Aug 05 09:19:34 <qwerty12> Looking at maemo-commits is nice too :/
Aug 05 09:19:49 <X-Fade> qwerty12: CIA works nicely ;)
Aug 05 09:19:51 <Khertan> i use wiki only for maemo summit organization :)
Aug 05 09:19:57 <qwerty12> I hope nokia accidently leak libdsme during this period
Aug 05 09:20:02 <Khertan> lol
Aug 05 09:20:06 <qwerty12> X-Fade, ORLY
Aug 05 09:20:29 <Khertan> There is no page titled "freemantle" ....
Aug 05 09:20:41 <Khertan> hum ... i always spell it wrong
Aug 05 09:22:13 * qwerty12 wants a diablo branch of rtcomm muhahahaha. And not for the rtcomm itself... 
Aug 05 09:22:35 <RST38h> X-Fade: extras ssh problem miraculously cured itself last night
Aug 05 09:23:32 <X-Fade> RST38h: Strange. Did it work the first time you tried it when you got home?
Aug 05 09:24:29 <Khertan> there isn't many information about fremantle on the wiki ... : Fremantle 	 - 	 - 	 Bundled community-supported Qt libraries
Aug 05 09:24:46 <Khertan> Announce the Fremantle plans and libraries changes - Quim - Target: Maemo summit 2008.
Aug 05 09:28:18 <RST38h> X-Fade: yep
Aug 05 09:31:56 * Khertan should speed up his dev of mContacts ... as i should made a lightning session ... :)
Aug 05 09:32:41 <lardman> morning
Aug 05 09:33:04 <qwerty12> morning lardman :)
Aug 05 09:33:10 <lardman> hi qwerty12
Aug 05 09:34:22 <liri> anybody with RoadMAP app experience?
Aug 05 09:35:32 <RST38h> lardman,liri,zap: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=210333
Aug 05 09:36:04 <Khertan> hi lardman
Aug 05 09:37:04 <lardman> RST38h: ?
Aug 05 09:37:08 <lardman> hi Khertan
Aug 05 09:37:13 <Khertan> RST38h > and what do you think about browserd ?
Aug 05 09:37:28 <lardman> ah
Aug 05 09:38:53 <lardman> interesting
Aug 05 09:39:42 <lardman> it is far too slow, is about my only comment
Aug 05 09:40:33 <Khertan> yeah ! we should ask for a port of netscape navigator 2 ! This browser work very well on my MacIIsi (33Mhz) !
Aug 05 09:41:05 <Khertan> :)
Aug 05 09:41:10 <qwerty12> If you want a browser that won't view most sites today, i'd recommend adding debfarm repo and apt-get install links
Aug 05 09:43:04 <Khertan> qwerty12 > links work very well
Aug 05 09:43:58 <qwerty12> In some odd text only rendering :/
Aug 05 09:45:33 * lcuk is actively pondering a lightweight fast webbrowser :)
Aug 05 09:45:57 <lcuk> lardman :) i have full image scaling in software now - its unoptimised but works very very nicely
Aug 05 09:46:08 <lcuk> hi btw, i was wondering where you have been
Aug 05 09:48:10 <Khertan> and lynx work very well with gmail ...
Aug 05 09:48:17 <wiza> links rox
Aug 05 09:48:47 * terbo is going to try and build w3m-img.
Aug 05 09:49:06 <terbo> xlinks is nice but not hildonized in a bad way
Aug 05 09:49:43 <Khertan> xlinks ? not needed ... xterm is enough :)
Aug 05 09:51:25 <terbo> what, nc site 80 | less?
Aug 05 09:51:26 <lardman> lcuk: good stuff :)
Aug 05 09:51:47 <qwerty12> Khertan, too late, links2 has already been built
Aug 05 09:51:58 <lardman> lcuk: yeah, Holly's Mum's birthday at the weekend, I was moving tents, cooking, pouring drinks, etc.
Aug 05 09:52:14 <lardman> lcuk: would have been more restful being at work!
Aug 05 09:53:12 <qwerty12> Somehow, I just got the image of you as a  male bartender 0_o
Aug 05 09:54:06 <lcuk> lol lardman, i was in a tent all weekend as well - lads weekend.  need a gas mask soon or i wont survive the next one
Aug 05 09:54:07 <nomis> Can someone with gstreamer experience help me to convert the gstreamer-pipeline in the camera example ( http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node9.html ) to the string notation used for gst_parse_launch() ?
Aug 05 09:54:15 <lardman> lcuk: lol
Aug 05 09:54:20 <RST38h> lcuk: LYNX!
Aug 05 09:54:26 <lcuk> qwerty12, lardman suits male cheerleader better
Aug 05 09:54:34 <qwerty12> lol lcuk
Aug 05 09:54:36 <lardman> It bucketed it down where we were, thought the tent/marquee would fly away too
Aug 05 09:54:39 <lcuk> RST38h, LYNX doesnt have pictures
Aug 05 09:54:46 <nomis> I currently try this: v4l2src ! ffmpegcolorspace ! video/x-raw-rgb, width=320,height=240 ! tee name=t ! queue ! xvimagesink name=xvsink   t. ! queue ! ffmpegcolorspace ! video/x-raw-rgb, width=320,height=240,bpp=24,depth=24,framerate=15/1 ! fakesink signal-handoffs=true  - but it does not work.
Aug 05 09:54:53 <RST38h> lcuk: fuck pictures, most of them are ads nowadays
Aug 05 09:55:18 <lcuk> complete the following sentense "the internet is for ..."
Aug 05 09:55:21 <lcuk> c
Aug 05 09:55:25 <nomis> lcuk: ads.
Aug 05 09:55:32 <lcuk> lol
Aug 05 09:55:38 <qwerty12> lcuk, finding drug suppliers
Aug 05 09:55:43 <terbo> telepathy
Aug 05 09:55:47 <lcuk> nomis, what are you aiming for
Aug 05 09:55:52 <RST38h> trolls?
Aug 05 09:55:55 <RST38h> more trolls?
Aug 05 09:55:59 <RST38h> even more trolls?
Aug 05 09:56:25 <nomis> lcuk: mainly I want to simplify the code setting up the gstreamer pipeline. I prefer one single call to gst_parse_launch() over lots of individual calls.
Aug 05 09:56:44 <lcuk> is this in c?
Aug 05 09:57:01 <nomis> lcuk: yes, but actually shouldn't matter that much.
Aug 05 09:57:34 <lcuk> where are you trying to put the data
Aug 05 09:59:02 <nomis> lcuk: into an xv overlay. When a GtkDrawingArea gets the first expose event I use gst_x_overlay_set_xwindow_id() on the GstElement I retrieved with gst_bin_get_by_name (..., "xvsink"); (the name being specified in the textual pipeline description)
Aug 05 09:59:15 * lcuk was just playing with a gstreamer stack the other day and spent hours scratching head to remove an entire branch after the tee
Aug 05 09:59:44 <nomis> lcuk: that is the other puzzle. I tried simplifying (and omitting the part for saving jpegs) and it stopped working as well.
Aug 05 10:00:09 <nomis> I seem to lack some grasp on subtle gstreamer details.
Aug 05 10:00:51 <lcuk> its quite logical once you boil it down, the tee is the splitter and the problem is ensuring the stream starts properly, ifmy 810 had network i would dig the code out for you
Aug 05 10:01:01 <lcuk> i went the other way and needed data without anything on screen
Aug 05 10:01:45 <nomis> lcuk: I tried just removing the part from the tee to the fakesink (and the tee node as well), but it stopped working. Have not yet really dived into that.
Aug 05 10:03:04 <X-Fade> Hmmz wiki tables ... pain..
Aug 05 10:03:55 <lcuk> nomis, when i get back later ill see if i can get it up for you - i removed the entire tee and all the live updating (ive got no gtk widgets)
Aug 05 10:04:07 <lcuk> unfortunately thats about 7 hours away..
Aug 05 10:04:15 <nomis> lcuk: thanks, will be interesting to compare.
Aug 05 10:04:27 <nomis> lcuk: no problem. I'll be available this evening  :)
Aug 05 10:04:36 <lcuk> alrighty then
Aug 05 10:04:57 <nomis> lcuk: you mainly use python, right?
Aug 05 10:05:04 <lcuk> no, raw c
Aug 05 10:05:07 <nomis> ok.
Aug 05 10:05:28 * zap broke center joystick button playing Metal Blob Solid
Aug 05 10:05:40 <Khertan> lol
Aug 05 10:06:00 <lcuk> started with the gstreamer stuff in lardmans barcode base, ( https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemo-barcode/trunk/maemo-barcode.c ) which itself is based on the wiki camera init code
Aug 05 10:06:21 <zap> Nokia must learn from Sharp how to build proper mobile keyboards
Aug 05 10:06:43 <Khertan> zap> i like the n810 keyboard !
Aug 05 10:06:57 <Khertan> i prefer the n810 one than the c3100 !
Aug 05 10:07:06 <Khertan> but right the dpad isn't really good
Aug 05 10:07:11 <zap> I wonder if what you have seen was a real c3100
Aug 05 10:07:23 <zap> its keyboard is perfect for its size
Aug 05 10:07:31 * lcuk vanishes again
Aug 05 10:07:40 <Khertan> zap > yes it was ... with a big compact flash wifi card ...
Aug 05 10:08:00 <RST38h> zap: E70 keyboard is just fine
Aug 05 10:08:10 <zap> Haven't seen E70
Aug 05 10:08:21 <zap> but I've seen N95, same as
Aug 05 10:08:23 <zap> *s
Aug 05 10:08:31 <RST38h> zap: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_E70
Aug 05 10:08:45 <RST38h> N95 is an overhyped brick
Aug 05 10:08:48 <Khertan> the only thing that need to be added to n810 keyboard ... is the tab key ! :)
Aug 05 10:09:13 <RST38h> E70 is an abandoned uber communicator that is actually *comfortable*
Aug 05 10:09:30 <glass> i like n95 more
Aug 05 10:09:35 <glass> but i don't want/need the qwerty
Aug 05 10:09:36 <zap> I don't see how E70 keyboard is different from N95
Aug 05 10:09:44 <glass> e70 splits open
Aug 05 10:09:46 <glass> to qwerty
Aug 05 10:10:02 <zap> I mean the keys themselves
Aug 05 10:10:04 <RST38h> zap: N95 has no qwerty keyboard? =)
Aug 05 10:10:14 <zap> no, just a normal phone keyboard
Aug 05 10:10:23 <RST38h> zap: keys ain't much different, it is the way you can hold it
Aug 05 10:10:35 <glass> well the keys are just buttons.. i think n95's direction pad is more comfortable
Aug 05 10:11:02 <zap> Zaurus dpad is very good, and keys press nicely, and they are separated from each other
Aug 05 10:11:05 <glass> different use devices though
Aug 05 10:11:11 <ap31r0n> hello
Aug 05 10:11:25 <Khertan> zap> i don't like the separation between key on zaurus
Aug 05 10:11:26 <zap> when I pick my old c3100 and type something, it's refreshing
Aug 05 10:11:58 <Khertan> maybe they should make removable keyboard :)
Aug 05 10:12:01 <ap31r0n> somebody knows how to reboot the matchbox xserver on Maemo?
Aug 05 10:12:01 <RST38h> Original IBM keyboards are even nicer and the most refreshing thing about them is, you can use them as deadly weapons
Aug 05 10:12:09 <ap31r0n> (just the x-server)
Aug 05 10:12:15 <zap> ap31r0n: killall X ?
Aug 05 10:12:18 <qwerty12> matchbox isn't an xserver
Aug 05 10:12:20 <Khertan> to let s user choose and buy their prefer keyboard :)
Aug 05 10:12:23 <glass> irish made keytronics..
Aug 05 10:12:33 <zap> ap31r0n: why you would need that?
Aug 05 10:12:42 <Khertan> ap31r0n > sudo reboot ?
Aug 05 10:12:44 <glass> Khertan: some devices have removable thumbboards
Aug 05 10:12:49 <glass> Khertan: it doesn't work out too well
Aug 05 10:12:54 <ap31r0n> Khertan: only the matchbox xserver
Aug 05 10:13:02 <Khertan> ap31r0n :)
Aug 05 10:13:15 <qwerty12> matchbox isn't an xserver
Aug 05 10:13:21 <ap31r0n> zap: i'm just testing some things
Aug 05 10:13:23 <ap31r0n> for an app
Aug 05 10:13:30 <ap31r0n> qwerty12: no?
Aug 05 10:13:45 <qwerty12> no, matchbox is a window-manager. xomap-xserver is the xserver
Aug 05 10:14:06 <ap31r0n> ahm
Aug 05 10:14:09 <ap31r0n> nice nice
Aug 05 10:14:38 <ap31r0n> well, that changes the things
Aug 05 10:14:47 <ap31r0n> ;)
Aug 05 10:14:51 <ap31r0n> thxs qwerty12
Aug 05 10:15:16 <ap31r0n> anyway, i guess i'm going to need to reboot the window manager
Aug 05 10:15:40 <ap31r0n> i'm going to try with the xomap xserver anyway
Aug 05 10:15:43 <lardman> So, what do we know about TMC?
Aug 05 10:16:07 <zap> what is TMC?
Aug 05 10:16:16 <Khertan> ?
Aug 05 10:16:22 <qwerty12> A GPS service where they send traffic information over radio
Aug 05 10:16:31 <qwerty12> smthing like that anyway
Aug 05 10:16:34 <lardman> Radio service, like RDS
Aug 05 10:16:37 <Khertan> Television Monte Carlo ?
Aug 05 10:16:41 <zap> :)
Aug 05 10:16:52 <zap> n810 has no radio anyway :)
Aug 05 10:16:56 <liri> eeek
Aug 05 10:17:05 <liri> the GPS on the N810 is annoying me
Aug 05 10:17:05 <zap> and I doubt n800 can decode that
Aug 05 10:17:09 <lardman> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_Message_Channel
Aug 05 10:17:19 <zap> liri: you aren't used to it yet
Aug 05 10:17:23 <lardman> zap: no, it can't, but the next chipset up can decode RDS
Aug 05 10:17:24 <Khertan> but the n800 have no GPS :)
Aug 05 10:17:26 <zap> I was disappointed initially too
Aug 05 10:17:41 <zap> lardman: are you going to solder a replacement into your n800? :)
Aug 05 10:17:44 <liri> after giving up on RoadMAP until the author checks his forum I installed maemo-mapper to just check that the GPS is functional, no maps
Aug 05 10:18:01 <liri> so maemo-mapper just says "searching for GPS receiver" and it never stops
Aug 05 10:18:08 <zap> yes, thats a known problem
Aug 05 10:18:15 <liri> I see from time to time the gps applet on and off
Aug 05 10:18:21 <zap> somebody complained here a few days ago about it
Aug 05 10:18:32 <zap> just launch the Nokia Map application and it'll get a GPS fix
Aug 05 10:18:42 <zap> there's a button there to see current GPS status
Aug 05 10:18:54 <zap> wait till it gets a fix, then launch maemo mapper (without closing Map)
Aug 05 10:18:54 <liri> what nokia map application?
Aug 05 10:19:03 <zap> the stock Map application
Aug 05 10:19:07 <zap> do you have N800?
Aug 05 10:19:10 <zap> or N810?
Aug 05 10:19:29 <liri> n810
Aug 05 10:19:36 <zap> I wonder how you missed it
Aug 05 10:19:36 <lardman> I was thinking of buying a new BT GPS to go with my N810 and saw this with TMC built-in: http://www.royaltek.com/products_dtl.php?cid=2&id=17&argPage=1&argI=8
Aug 05 10:19:41 <liri> I don't see any Nokia Map anywhere :)
Aug 05 10:19:43 <zap> Chinook or diablo?
Aug 05 10:19:46 <aspect> 810 has no radio?
Aug 05 10:19:49 <zap> no
Aug 05 10:19:50 <liri> oh HEH
Aug 05 10:19:53 <aspect> another reason to be glad I didn't get one
Aug 05 10:19:54 <zap> but it has GPS instead :)
Aug 05 10:20:03 <liri> it's the FIRST option in My Selection menu
Aug 05 10:20:08 <zap> yepo\
Aug 05 10:20:12 <liri> zap: damn that was invisible heh
Aug 05 10:20:12 <qwerty12> The GPS chipset in N810 is crap. No big loss.
Aug 05 10:20:26 <zap> qwerty12: it is usable
Aug 05 10:20:34 <liri> zap: so I'm not in any of the USA/Canada maps, but open one of those anyway?
Aug 05 10:20:41 <zap> I use it while walking through forest, satellite maps rules for that
Aug 05 10:20:57 <zap> liri: you can download maps from there
Aug 05 10:21:08 <zap> some maps are crap though
Aug 05 10:21:17 <zap> like the Russia map (6Mb whole Russia, hahah)
Aug 05 10:21:26 <qwerty12> lol
Aug 05 10:21:29 <keesj> When I am lost the thing I like to to most is to listern to the ratio
Aug 05 10:21:41 <keesj> radio
Aug 05 10:21:48 <liri> zap: I see ME maybe my country is listed there...
Aug 05 10:21:54 <zap> keesj: I don't like most music that is broadcasted, thus no big loss for me :)
Aug 05 10:22:15 <liri> zap: but generally, if the map is available or not, I can use whatever map just to get the GPS unit up and running?
Aug 05 10:22:26 <zap> I think yes
Aug 05 10:22:45 <zap> I don't use that app anyway for more than starting the GPS
Aug 05 10:22:50 <zap> and then switch to Maemo Mapper
Aug 05 10:22:51 <qwerty12> That's true, due to nokia's suckiness with the fmradio applet, I don't use the radio
Aug 05 10:22:54 <kulve> liri: you can get the location coordinates from control panel as well
Aug 05 10:23:24 <zap> kulve: right, but the Map application will show you a neat diagram with currently locked satellites
Aug 05 10:23:34 <zap> and the control panel will just tell you "please wait, no fix"
Aug 05 10:23:36 <kulve> zap: yep
Aug 05 10:23:39 <liri> zap: ahh so just to start the Nokia Map application, dont choose any maps, and start maemo-mapper?
Aug 05 10:23:49 <zap> liri: something like that
Aug 05 10:23:52 <liri> zap: ok
Aug 05 10:23:59 <liri> zap: yep, the control panel doesn't get a fix, it searches forever
Aug 05 10:24:00 <zap> liri: but I usually wait until Map gets a fix, and only then launch mapper
Aug 05 10:24:08 <zap> liri: are you outside?
Aug 05 10:24:15 <zap> GPS doesn't work in buildings
Aug 05 10:24:19 <liri> zap: nope, inside a building
Aug 05 10:24:26 <liri> zap: ok I'll go outside
Aug 05 10:24:30 <zap> then you won't get a fix :) you can get near to a window though
Aug 05 10:24:46 <zap> sometimes that helps, sometimes not
Aug 05 10:25:02 <Veggen> very often it's easier to keep a fix once you got it outside the building.
Aug 05 10:25:10 <liri> zap: though I won't be near my pidgin chat... so what do I have to do? In Nokia Map I opened a map and now it asks for a registration thing
Aug 05 10:25:17 <zap> yes, once it gets a fix it won't lose it easily
Aug 05 10:25:29 <zap> liri: press cancel
Aug 05 10:25:48 <lardman> What's the consensus on SirF star-III vs MTX?
Aug 05 10:25:54 <liri> zap: ok cancele
Aug 05 10:26:14 <lardman> s/MTX/MTK
Aug 05 10:27:02 <liri> zap: how do I get the GPS there to fix?
Aug 05 10:27:16 <hrw> lardman: iirc both are worth using
Aug 05 10:27:17 <zap> press one of the buttons on the lower toolbar
Aug 05 10:27:33 <zap> it will show you the globe and current state of the GPS chip
Aug 05 10:27:48 <lardman> hrw: looks like these are down to ~£25, which is cheap anough to not annoy me (that I already have a GPS in the n810 ;) )
Aug 05 10:27:58 <zap> liri: the fourth counting from left
Aug 05 10:28:08 <liri> zap: ok
Aug 05 10:28:12 <liri> zap: let me go outside and check it
Aug 05 10:28:20 <liri> zap: brb
Aug 05 10:28:27 <hrw> lardman: you think that you have gps in n810
Aug 05 10:28:39 <zap> liri: be patient
Aug 05 10:28:47 <zap> liri: it can take up to 10 minutes
Aug 05 10:28:48 <lardman> hrw: well in name if not function
Aug 05 10:28:49 <hrw> lardman: I have 3 gps equipped devices at home and plan to buy wince based car navigation
Aug 05 10:29:03 <lardman> yuck ;)
Aug 05 10:29:23 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Aug 05 10:29:31 <lardman> hi Jaffa
Aug 05 10:29:31 <qwerty12> Nah, wince car navigation was decent. My PPC with tomtom was brilliant.
Aug 05 10:29:36 <qwerty12> Morning Jaffa
Aug 05 10:29:42 <hrw> lardman: neo gta01 are not usable for me, n810 lack routing etc
Aug 05 10:29:56 <lardman> hrw: yeah, what about DIY?
Aug 05 10:29:57 <Veggen> Well. Someone I know, was not satisifed at all with it. It kept locking up, taking the tracklog with it, etc....
Aug 05 10:30:02 <lardman> hrw: using OSM data, etc.
Aug 05 10:30:10 <Veggen> (a wince-based device)
Aug 05 10:30:24 <hrw> qwerty12: I was thinking about using tomtom on ppc/wince but tomtom6 lack recent maps which are available only for tt7
Aug 05 10:30:25 <lardman> hrw: not ready yet is the answer I suppose, but I'm keen to hack on it
Aug 05 10:30:55 <hrw> lardman: I want maps not 'few lines on screen' which OSM is mostly
Aug 05 10:31:26 <zap> hrw: have you tried the nokia Map application in the paid mode?
Aug 05 10:31:36 <zap> it has routing
Aug 05 10:31:39 <Veggen> hrw: Depends on the area.
Aug 05 10:31:45 <zap> worked fine for me, but just 7 days :)
Aug 05 10:32:09 <Veggen> hrw: of course we've worked on it, but here in the area things are getting pretty good OSM-wise ;)
Aug 05 10:32:14 <hrw> zap: routing it has. maps are...
Aug 05 10:32:19 <lardman> hrw: depends where you are
Aug 05 10:32:24 <zap> exactly
Aug 05 10:32:32 <hrw> lardman: Poland and few places in Poland
Aug 05 10:32:52 <zap> in town it worked fine for me, outside it didn't
Aug 05 10:32:57 <Veggen> hrw: then start OSMing yourself? ;)
Aug 05 10:33:02 <Veggen> It's actually quite fun.
Aug 05 10:33:11 <zap> Map application doesn't support OSM
Aug 05 10:33:13 <Veggen> And you get to know places you didn't before.
Aug 05 10:33:14 <zap> unfortunately
Aug 05 10:33:41 <lardman> ~seen onion
Aug 05 10:33:45 <infobot> onion is currently on #maemo (2d 19h 2m 30s), last said: 'johnx: thanks'.
Aug 05 10:33:53 <lardman> onion: ping
Aug 05 10:33:57 <hrw> zap: I plan to make 2 days trip soon with few steps and in few places I want to go in other way then google maps want to route me. maemo mapper gave up or need to split into parts
Aug 05 10:34:08 <hrw> Veggen: expand day to 36-48 hours please
Aug 05 10:34:52 <lardman> and sleep to -8 hours
Aug 05 10:34:56 <hrw> zap: and Map application is not for car use - it require stylus
Aug 05 10:35:15 <zap> I use it with my finger to pan
Aug 05 10:35:24 <zap> and the toolbar buttons are large enough
Aug 05 10:35:27 <hrw> zap: I want to enter address
Aug 05 10:35:27 <Veggen> hrw: if you do it on foot or bicycle, you can skip other exercise :)
Aug 05 10:35:42 <zap> hrw: set up the on-screen keyboard with large letters
Aug 05 10:35:50 <Veggen> (that's some hours saved already)
Aug 05 10:36:19 <Veggen> I walked 35 km on saturday and >15km yesterday to gather OSM data :)
Aug 05 10:36:36 <zap> :)
Aug 05 10:36:58 * zap wants a electro-bicycle
Aug 05 10:41:17 <lardman> with sign recognition cameras?
Aug 05 10:42:19 <lardman> anyone know what those TomTom RDS-TMC devices output? (they have a 3.5mm audio plug on them)
Aug 05 10:42:30 <lardman> probably a serial link I guess
Aug 05 10:43:34 <X-Fade> lardman: Isn't it just an FM antenna?
Aug 05 10:43:57 <X-Fade> lardman: Or do you think the radio chip is in there too?
Aug 05 10:44:14 <lardman> X-Fade: no, the signal processing is done inside the unit, so it decodes the FM signal in there, then outputs the TMS data
Aug 05 10:44:39 <lardman> at least that is my best guess, otherwise you could just plug in an FM antenna and be off
Aug 05 10:44:55 <X-Fade> lardman: Try it out ;)
Aug 05 10:45:04 <lardman> I don't have one though ;)
Aug 05 10:45:33 <lardman> s/TMS/TMC
Aug 05 10:47:01 <lardman> there is software to decode the RoyalTek NMEA output sentences, e.g.: http://www.gpspassion.com/FORUMSEN/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17275&whichpage=2
Aug 05 10:47:06 <lardman> not sure how open it is
Aug 05 10:47:36 <lardman> and I guess the TomTom ones would use something similar (though different of course), and are much cheaper to try hacking with
Aug 05 10:48:14 <lardman> with that said, all I seem to see are reports of how poor the signal strength is, so I'll shelve it and just get a decent cheap GPS
Aug 05 10:50:03 <lbt> hi
Aug 05 10:50:21 <lbt> oops - wrong window - hi anyway :)
Aug 05 10:53:31 <liri> zap: back
Aug 05 10:54:13 <liri> zap: so yeah, it was able to get a fix I think. It's hard to see it in Nokia Map app but in maemo-mapper it says "2D fix" and sat's varried from 3/7 to 5-6/7
Aug 05 10:54:28 <zap> ok
Aug 05 10:54:43 <lbt> are people talking about external GPS devices?
Aug 05 10:54:45 <zap> now download some maps
Aug 05 10:55:45 <liri> lbt: we're talking n810's built-in gps
Aug 05 10:55:48 <liri> zap: before that...
Aug 05 10:56:02 * lbt nods off again
Aug 05 10:56:15 <liri> zap: so now, for any GPS use I need to fire that Nokia Map app in the background and then fire up RoadMAP/Maemo-mapper/whatever?
Aug 05 10:56:36 <zap> liri: if maemo mapper can't kick GPS running, do that
Aug 05 10:56:52 <zap> you can close the Map application after you get a fix
Aug 05 10:57:00 <liri> zap: ahh ok
Aug 05 10:57:03 <liri> zap: I'll try that
Aug 05 10:57:24 <liri> zap: ok so, maemo-mapper won't really help me as googlemaps don't have Israel mapped with streets at all
Aug 05 10:57:33 <zap> just don't leave the GPS daemon without a single user, it will shutdown in a short time
Aug 05 10:57:38 <liri> zap: I'll have to wait for a reply from charles (kernelpanic) author of RoadMAP
Aug 05 10:57:52 <zap> liri: look what maps are available in stock Maemo Mapper
Aug 05 10:58:13 <zap> Maps -> Manage repositories
Aug 05 10:58:18 <zap> and press the Download button
Aug 05 10:58:22 <liri> zap: ahh I'll take a look
Aug 05 10:58:36 <liri> zap: but all the maps there are based on gmaps no?
Aug 05 10:58:39 <zap> no
Aug 05 10:58:52 <zap> OpenStreet, google, virtual earth, yahoo
Aug 05 10:58:55 <lbt> that bit of mm isn't the best... (or I don't quite understand)
Aug 05 10:59:04 <lbt> the 'Area' tab
Aug 05 10:59:07 <liri> I see
Aug 05 10:59:08 <zap> what bit?
Aug 05 10:59:13 <liri> I'll check it then
Aug 05 10:59:27 <lbt> should default (or be settable) to the co-ords of the visible screen
Aug 05 10:59:31 <zap> lbt: whats wrong with it? by default it shows the boundary of the active view
Aug 05 10:59:36 <zap> it does that
Aug 05 10:59:55 <lbt> Oh, the help says something about the 2 previous clicks
Aug 05 11:00:13 <zap> liri: set up the repositories, then choose the one you want to use, then Maps -> Download maps
Aug 05 11:00:39 <lbt> you can set an area and pre-load maps too
Aug 05 11:00:42 <lbt> v. good
Aug 05 11:00:59 <lbt> you don't need below zoom level 6
Aug 05 11:01:48 <lbt> and you can import routes from Google b4 you set off
Aug 05 11:02:10 <lbt> zap - is MM yours?
Aug 05 11:02:16 <zap> no
Aug 05 11:02:31 <lbt> 'k
Aug 05 11:12:07 <liri> zap: yeah but still, there's a good map base for my country which is based on RoadMAP but that app is giving me a headache
Aug 05 11:12:31 <zap> liri: try mm first
Aug 05 11:12:56 <zap> liri: it's a good map application, although it has some limitations due to its choice of bitmap maps
Aug 05 11:13:05 <zap> but it also has its strengths due to same choice
Aug 05 11:13:17 <zap> and it's mature and more or less stable
Aug 05 11:15:37 <liri> zap: I'd love to use it I just doubt it has good maps, if any maps at all...
Aug 05 11:16:09 <liri> zap: I can't check at the moment because my battery is drained but when I charge it at home in the evening I'll do another check on mm
Aug 05 11:16:26 <zap> liri: it can use google satellite maps
Aug 05 11:16:38 <zap> doesn't google maps have good satellite maps for your area?
Aug 05 11:16:43 <liri> zap: but it's without street names so I can't navigate...
Aug 05 11:16:58 <zap> and google street doesn't have them?
Aug 05 11:17:14 <zap> and openstreetmap.org doesn't have them?
Aug 05 11:17:18 <zap> and yahoo doesn't have them?
Aug 05 11:17:37 <liri> yahoo and google doesn't.
Aug 05 11:17:45 <zap> look at openstreetmap.org
Aug 05 11:17:59 <Veggen> and do it yourself :)
Aug 05 11:18:16 <zap> well thats a option too, although there are chances they are already mapped
Aug 05 11:18:17 <liri> I did
Aug 05 11:18:26 <liri> it isn't too good :)
Aug 05 11:18:37 <Veggen> It really isn't that hard. Once you're over the beginners struggles, OSMing can go pretty fast.
Aug 05 11:19:55 <liri> Veggen: but it would be a waste if the country is mapped already and NOT mapped in any commercial version but in an open standard as well. see freemap.co.il
Aug 05 11:20:05 <liri> Veggen: the text may be unreadable but the map is there
Aug 05 11:20:49 <crashanddie> liri, I don't know exactly what you're talking about, but I'm guessing you're ranting about the Map application not having a specific country
Aug 05 11:21:13 <zap> he's ranting about any app not having maps for his location :)
Aug 05 11:21:47 <crashanddie> liri, to that, i'll just answer: they have their own dataset, their own maps. Don't expect a commercial application to start using some kind of open-source map, just because it exists. Implementing a new dataset would cost them dearly, would take a lot of time, and would bork the application (make it heavier, etc)
Aug 05 11:21:53 <Veggen> liri: hmm, yes. If the license of that is free, you should work on importing it to OSM :)
Aug 05 11:22:39 <Veggen> or make a way to use freemap.co.il in maemo mapper.
Aug 05 11:22:51 <zap> indeed
Aug 05 11:23:11 <liri> crashanddie: why so aggressive? I'm not randing about anything. we're having a good discussion here.
Aug 05 11:23:25 <liri> Veggen: I wish I know how to make it work :)
Aug 05 11:23:27 <crashanddie> who said I'm agressive ?
Aug 05 11:23:35 <crashanddie> liri, the whole point of commercial map applications is that they sell THEIR maps. Not their maps and some open source maps, the whole service is based on the fact that THEIR maps are better than any else
Aug 05 11:23:47 <liri> Veggen: is there some documentation about doing that, could be interesting.
Aug 05 11:24:01 <Veggen> liri: Then contact the author of maemo mapper. He can perhaps have a look at it, or tell you how to do it.
Aug 05 11:24:11 <crashanddie> Though, I think implementing such maps into Maemo Mapper is going to be a big pain... Quite frankly
Aug 05 11:24:19 <liri> crashanddie: but I wasn't talking about the map application dude, you're totally off topic :)
Aug 05 11:24:25 <zap> crashanddie: which maps? vector maps?
Aug 05 11:24:49 <hrw> crashanddie: commercials buy from TeleAtlas
Aug 05 11:24:49 <liri> we're talking about .rdm maps here...
Aug 05 11:25:03 <hrw> which now is owned by TomTom
Aug 05 11:25:26 <crashanddie> hrw, so basically everyone has the same maps ?
Aug 05 11:25:54 <hrw> not quite
Aug 05 11:26:50 <zap> there are a few other commercial map makers
Aug 05 11:27:01 <zap> but the marked is quite monopolized, yes
Aug 05 11:27:08 <zap> *market
Aug 05 11:27:46 <XTLi> And the prices are heavy
Aug 05 11:28:35 <crashanddie> btw hrw, I'm probably going down to the OH office this afternoon
Aug 05 11:29:22 <RST38h> interview? =)
Aug 05 11:29:37 <crashanddie> no, they're still not answering, I'm going to harass 'em a bit
Aug 05 11:31:52 <crashanddie> "Gimme a job or I'll start a food-strike"
Aug 05 11:33:36 <RST38h> crashanddie <-- desperate =)
Aug 05 11:34:00 <RST38h> crash: Better harass them to fix and update modest because these folks appear to blame everything on futexes now
Aug 05 11:34:26 <crashanddie> nha, not quite, I know I'll find a job here, I just really really really want to work at OH
Aug 05 11:35:44 <hrw> RST38h: modest is not OH
Aug 05 11:36:45 <lcuk> OH is not modest??? i saw them blush when someone complimented the clutter api
Aug 05 11:37:21 <Binky> Hi everyone
Aug 05 11:37:35 <hrw> lcuk: I mean that modest is not written by OH
Aug 05 11:37:46 <crashanddie> lol
Aug 05 11:37:59 <crashanddie> hey Binky
Aug 05 11:38:01 <sergio> modest will be updated soon
Aug 05 11:38:09 <crashanddie> OH HAI LCUK
Aug 05 11:38:22 <lcuk> heh  \o hi jobseeker
Aug 05 11:38:22 <sergio> with tons of fixes
Aug 05 11:38:28 <Binky> hrw,  did you finally know a solution?
Aug 05 11:38:51 <Binky> sergio, are you spanish?
Aug 05 11:38:54 <sergio> yep
Aug 05 11:39:06 <RST38h> hrw: Judging from email addresses of people who comment on Modest bugs, they are supporting it
Aug 05 11:39:08 <lcuk> crashanddie, :) i got (unoptimised) image scaling in - i can do the physics / graffiti thing with real pictures now
Aug 05 11:39:17 <crashanddie> lcuk, ooooh, sexy
Aug 05 11:39:24 <sergio> RST38h OH has nothing to do with modest
Aug 05 11:39:28 <sergio> is mainly Igalia's
Aug 05 11:39:32 <Binky> Cool! Yo soy de el Ejido, Almería ^^
Aug 05 11:39:33 <RST38h> ah
Aug 05 11:40:10 <lcuk> will people stop calling themselves modest - we all know theres programming gods in this room
Aug 05 11:40:11 <crashanddie> lcuk, wanna do me a favour ? Get the Maemo logo, and make it crush the Android logo, film it, put on youtube
Aug 05 11:40:22 <lcuk> :D hehehehe
Aug 05 11:40:35 <sergio> Binky saludos :)
Aug 05 11:40:36 <lcuk> i was kinetic scrolling around a 4096*4096 image last night
Aug 05 11:41:04 <crashanddie> sweet
Aug 05 11:41:05 <Binky> RST38h, Why the unusual nick?
Aug 05 11:41:16 <RST38h> Why is it unusual?
Aug 05 11:41:17 <Binky> lcuk, lol, i must try it
Aug 05 11:41:21 <crashanddie> how is his nickname unusual ? Isn't it always like that
Aug 05 11:41:34 <lcuk> binky, you will have to wait a short time, im not releasing until im happy
Aug 05 11:41:41 <rm_you> actually, what does it mean, RST38h?
Aug 05 11:41:50 <crashanddie> and everyone knows lcuk not very happy
Aug 05 11:42:09 <aquatix> rm_you: reset to 38 hour clock
Aug 05 11:42:10 <aquatix> duh ;)
Aug 05 11:42:11 <hrw> Binky: for your 2gb card?
Aug 05 11:42:18 <rm_you> lolwtf?
Aug 05 11:42:23 <rm_you> what does that mean
Aug 05 11:42:30 <Binky> hrw,  exaactly
Aug 05 11:42:38 <aquatix> maybe that his biorythm is fucked up? ;)
Aug 05 11:42:42 <crashanddie> Romeo Sierra Tango 38 Hotel
Aug 05 11:42:48 <aquatix> frankly, i'm guessing now
Aug 05 11:42:54 <hrw> Binky: no - my 770 gathers dust and still use that 64mb card which was in box
Aug 05 11:43:08 <lcuk> aquatix, he doesnt have a biorythm - hes an android
Aug 05 11:43:27 <aquatix> ah
Aug 05 11:43:31 <aquatix> that'd explain things
Aug 05 11:43:37 <Binky> lcuk, i saw a cancer image that claimed to be the largest image on the web. Scrolling there would be cool
Aug 05 11:43:40 <lcuk> if you watch closely you can see the point where he switches power supply
Aug 05 11:43:43 <rm_you> i use 36h days
Aug 05 11:43:45 <aquatix> he has a 10h recharge cycle every two days?
Aug 05 11:44:07 <lcuk> Binky, i believe the largest "image" on the web is based on google earth or terra server isnt it?
Aug 05 11:45:03 <crashanddie> how can you prove it's the largest though ?
Aug 05 11:45:08 <lcuk> infact, this would be the "biggest" image on the web
Aug 05 11:45:09 <lcuk> http://sos.noaa.gov/datasets/solar_system/all-sky.html
Aug 05 11:45:14 <crashanddie> Don't think my measuring tape will help :P
Aug 05 11:45:25 <Binky> Should be. But that is a big number of images pasted, isn't
Aug 05 11:45:30 <XTLi> I thought 38h is a reset for some old micro
Aug 05 11:45:48 <lcuk> binky, might not be a single exposure but does that matter?
Aug 05 11:46:06 <lcuk> it just means theres more frames with matt in them
Aug 05 11:46:09 <hrw> Binky: if you are familiar with rebuilding kernels then I can point you to patches
Aug 05 11:46:13 <Binky> crashanddie, i 've never seen a bigger one
Aug 05 11:46:19 <Binky>  IIPimage is a client-server system for the remote viewing of ultra-high resolution images over the internet. Their demo of NASA's incredible ultra high resolution Marble Earth image at 86400 x 43200 pixels is probably the biggest single image ever made available online!
Aug 05 11:46:39 <hrw> Binky: http://www.rpsys.net/openzaurus/patches/mmcsd_large_cards-r1.patch can interest you
Aug 05 11:46:58 <Binky> lcuk, should, since that men is not a single image
Aug 05 11:47:00 <lcuk> binky, cant we just make a massive bitmap and serve it via 810?
Aug 05 11:47:11 <Binky> hrw, i am
Aug 05 11:47:14 <lcuk> man was created from a single image
Aug 05 11:47:16 <lcuk> ME
Aug 05 11:47:18 <hrw> Binky: but thats probable not the solution
Aug 05 11:47:20 <XTLi> Looks like it's a call to rom on some Z80?
Aug 05 11:47:24 <Binky> Going to install fanoush kernel
Aug 05 11:47:46 <aquatix> lcuk: so *you* are that imaginary god person?
Aug 05 11:47:53 * aquatix runs
Aug 05 11:47:55 <Binky> lcuk, means you are god?
Aug 05 11:48:07 * aquatix dodges some lightning strikes
Aug 05 11:48:11 * lcuk vanishes in a cloud of logic
Aug 05 11:48:18 <crashanddie> aquatix, he's not the only deity here
Aug 05 11:48:33 <glass> ascension roll
Aug 05 11:48:33 * Binky wants to run with aquatix, but lcuk ate him
Aug 05 11:48:36 <XTLi> Oe a deadbeef code...
Aug 05 11:49:03 <timeless> RST38h: ping
Aug 05 11:49:04 <glass> my barbarian needs waterwalking or levitation or the games fucked
Aug 05 11:49:10 * crashanddie hits lcuk on the head, "SPIT HIM OUT ! BAD GOD, BAD GOD!"
Aug 05 11:49:49 <Binky> lcuk is a binary god. Can't we just destroy him with a logic paradox?
Aug 05 11:49:54 <aquatix> lcuk: say, that noaa page has .mov's; where are the images? :)
Aug 05 11:50:07 <aquatix> Binky: he already is
Aug 05 11:50:56 <lcuk> i dunno, i got it from google image search, i didnt think it was a movie since i didnt click "google movie search"
Aug 05 11:51:17 <Binky> aquatix,  lol. my browser crashed trying to load one of those big images
Aug 05 11:51:31 <lcuk> there are 10 types of people who believe in binary gods, those who do, and those who dont
Aug 05 11:51:40 <aquatix> Binky: i'll not even try here at work
Aug 05 11:51:43 <aquatix> crappy pc's :)
Aug 05 11:52:15 <aquatix> lcuk: then it's good i'm not a binary one
Aug 05 11:52:23 * aquatix is the Singularity
Aug 05 11:52:35 <Binky> lcuk, that is probably the oldest sentence on internet
Aug 05 11:52:43 <lcuk> yes, you have been a singularity since i ran off with your gf :P
Aug 05 11:53:02 <Binky> sergio, how do i say 'es más viejo que el mear'? lol
Aug 05 11:53:59 <aquatix> Binky: no, that's 10 types of people who understand binary
Aug 05 11:54:07 <lcuk> binky, i think the oldest sentense on the internet is something like "URGENT: V1AGRA mds cheap"
Aug 05 11:54:18 * lcuk must get a spell checker
Aug 05 11:54:44 * crashanddie throws a spell checker into the clouds (of which there are tons)
Aug 05 11:55:13 <crashanddie> lcuk, btw, WTF ? 16 fags for £6 ? Djeezus
Aug 05 11:55:28 <lcuk> wtf?  i dont buy cigs in englang any more
Aug 05 11:55:33 <Binky> lcuk, that should be in the QDB
Aug 05 11:55:40 <lcuk> i buy poouches of baccy on the continent whenever i go
Aug 05 11:56:07 <crashanddie> lcuk, my landlord may be able to get me 200 lucky strikes for £25
Aug 05 11:56:09 * lcuk is gettin worse
Aug 05 11:56:20 <sergio> Binky: untranslatable
Aug 05 11:56:35 <sergio> Binky: la semantica es intraducible :)
Aug 05 11:56:38 <lcuk> reasonable - you can get 20 for <£5 up here, but its still a rip off
Aug 05 11:57:00 <Binky> sergio, los refranes lo son lol
Aug 05 11:57:15 <lcuk> right, gonna fight the weather and go for a smoke
Aug 05 11:57:40 <Binky> hrw, i'll ask about the MMC if you don't mind
Aug 05 11:57:51 <crashanddie> Binky, isn't that "it's even older than my pee" ? (well, I know the saying in spanish, there's no equivalent in English AFAIK)
Aug 05 11:58:10 <crashanddie> lcuk, same here :D But I have a porch :D
Aug 05 11:58:35 <hrw> Binky: ask
Aug 05 11:58:47 <Binky> Best equivalence should be that, but nevermind the 'my' in that sentence
Aug 05 11:59:59 <crashanddie> I have to start talking spanish again
Aug 05 12:00:39 <Binky> I put a 2 GB MMC on my 770. But it says is damaged, corrupted or unformatted. In file manager, says is not inserted. Card is OK, since i can write and read through a card reader. dmesg says this: http://pastebin.com/m5aa2706b
Aug 05 12:00:54 <Binky> crashanddie, is not that hard
Aug 05 12:01:05 <Binky> Hardest part are verbs
Aug 05 12:01:18 <aquatix> Binky: i had that a couple of days ago
Aug 05 12:01:27 <aquatix> after a reboot of the tablet it worked fine
Aug 05 12:01:29 <aquatix> odd
Aug 05 12:02:33 <crashanddie> Binky, yeah I know, I lived in Catalunya for the past 8 years, so I had to learn it, even if Castellano wasn't what I used the most :P
Aug 05 12:02:43 <Binky> I rebooted... Well the device rebooted itself too at least 4 or 5 times yesterday
Aug 05 12:03:26 <Binky> crashanddie, i don't know how to speak catalonian, i'm andalusian
Aug 05 12:03:44 <aquatix> Binky: weird
Aug 05 12:03:53 <aquatix> Binky: i guess you tried re-inserting it?
Aug 05 12:04:03 <crashanddie> Binky, I don't speak catalunyan either, only a bit of Castellano
Aug 05 12:04:09 <Binky> aquatix, exactly
Aug 05 12:05:16 <Binky> aquatix, i have 1st release of os2006. Have you fanoush SDHC or high speed MMC kernel installed?
Aug 05 12:05:52 <Binky> Gorillaz' Double Bass song is amusing
Aug 05 12:08:02 <Binky> crashanddie, people living in the south of USA speaks spanish too, don't they?
Aug 05 12:10:48 <Binky> Will it work if i make two 1GB partitions on the card?
Aug 05 12:11:11 <aquatix> not sure, but 2GB isn't sdhc yet
Aug 05 12:11:19 <aquatix> so it shouldn't matter imho
Aug 05 12:11:43 <Veggen> Hmm. Anyone have Nokia E51? And have tested the GPS?
Aug 05 12:12:17 <glass> gps of what?
Aug 05 12:12:32 <Veggen> Seems Nokia E51 is the new standard cell phone at work, and my old one died so I ordered a new one. Just got it on my desk and started playing with it.
Aug 05 12:12:48 <glass> it doesn't have a gps
Aug 05 12:12:52 <aquatix> so, test the gps yourself? ;0
Aug 05 12:12:57 <aquatix> *;)
Aug 05 12:13:10 <Veggen> oh, it doesn't,.
Aug 05 12:13:14 <Veggen> I just noticed.
Aug 05 12:13:25 <Veggen> And anyway, it was actually the wrong channel ;)
Aug 05 12:13:31 <glass>  http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/E51
Aug 05 12:13:42 <rm_you> lol
Aug 05 12:13:47 <glass> hehe
Aug 05 12:13:48 <rm_you> lcuk: I will look at that tomorrow
Aug 05 12:13:54 <rm_you> PM me any pertinent infos
Aug 05 12:14:00 * rm_you sleeps
Aug 05 12:14:40 <Veggen> glass: I was gonna ask on the OSM IRC-channel (which are more appropriate for GPS-questions, especially since my inquiry was more towards suitability for OSMing ;)
Aug 05 12:15:10 <crashanddie> Binky, yeah, some do
Aug 05 12:15:16 <pupnik_> Actor Jack Nicholson hawks a hydrogen powered car -- in 1978  http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1957/
Aug 05 12:17:13 <Khertan> i prefers the tesla roadster : http://www.teslamotors.com/
Aug 05 12:19:22 <Binky> crashanddie, but where will the device mount partitions?
Aug 05 12:20:31 <pupnik_> Khertan: yes apparently the costs and energy losses in producing, storing and transporting hydrogen are quite high
Aug 05 12:20:46 <Macer> hm
Aug 05 12:20:49 <Binky> Should i apply fanoush kernel?
Aug 05 12:21:09 <Macer> i have to reinstall nit-debian
Aug 05 12:21:15 <crashanddie> pupnik_, building solar panels to produce electricity is inefficient. The ecological impact means a solar panel needs to run full time for more than 15years before it has nullified the energy needed to create it
Aug 05 12:21:16 <Macer> n800 is killing me.. when something goes wrong there's really no way to reboot it
Aug 05 12:21:31 <Binky> Will be mounted in /media/mmc1 and /media/mmc2? Can i access them through file manager?
Aug 05 12:22:13 <pupnik_> Macer, i'm very pleased with how little goes wrong with the Nokia internet tablets.
Aug 05 12:22:35 <crashanddie> pupnik_, it'll take several years before the yield of solar panels improves, and becomes worth it
Aug 05 12:22:37 <Macer> i'm installing nit-debian on it though
Aug 05 12:22:43 <Macer> it's kinda in dev.. kinda buggy :)
Aug 05 12:22:46 <Binky> Macer,  with the 770 there's no problem. It reboot itself. Even when you don't want to!
Aug 05 12:23:12 <Macer> i'm still working on getting the sound and bt phone stuff set up
Aug 05 12:23:19 <pupnik_> crashanddie: i just thought it was funny to see jack nicholson on-camera hawking a hydrogen car in 1978 in a very stoned voice.
Aug 05 12:23:41 <Khertan> pupnik_> it was !
Aug 05 12:25:15 <crashanddie> pupnik_, at the moment, only heat capturing solar panels are really interesting. I've seen houses that get 80C water just thanks to solar panels, panels that cost less than $20 per square meter, and I've seen the first (and only) prototype of air conditioning using those panels, chilling a room down to 3C, using about 10W of electricity
Aug 05 12:26:06 <pupnik_> eh?  never heard of solar AC, unless it's photovoltaic.  link?
Aug 05 12:26:12 <glass> temp means nothing, unless specified how insulated it is
Aug 05 12:26:21 <crashanddie> pupnik_, it's not photovoltaic
Aug 05 12:26:24 <RST38h> crash: Where do they get so much heat?
Aug 05 12:27:04 <crashanddie> RST38h, the setup is in southern france, but any mildly sunny area will do
Aug 05 12:27:11 <RST38h> hehe
Aug 05 12:27:18 <RST38h> not-here.
Aug 05 12:27:36 <glass> solar power for heating is no fun if it's dark 18h of day
Aug 05 12:27:49 <RST38h> nuclear is the only way
Aug 05 12:28:28 * RST38h hopes that Powers of Reason will eventually prevail over Powers of Good
Aug 05 12:28:33 <Khertan> crashanddie > only 20$ per square meter ? where do you buy it ?
Aug 05 12:28:39 <crashanddie> pupnik_, http://cartech.univ-perp.fr/activite.htm
Aug 05 12:28:48 <crashanddie> pupnik_, it's in french though
Aug 05 12:29:02 <pupnik_> merci
Aug 05 12:29:28 <crashanddie> Khertan, there are a certain number of companies that produce these kind of panels, couldn't give you names though, I signed a NDA
Aug 05 12:29:49 <Khertan> crashanddie > hum strange as last month i ven't get the same price
Aug 05 12:30:04 <Khertan> crashanddie > maybe i should search a bit more
Aug 05 12:31:33 <Khertan> RST38h >and the waste ?
Aug 05 12:31:35 <crashanddie> pupnik_ & Khertan: http://cartech.univ-perp.fr/climsol.htm
Aug 05 12:31:48 <Khertan> crashanddie > i ve see it ... :)
Aug 05 12:31:55 <RST38h> Khertan: Not a lot of waste there
Aug 05 12:32:20 <RST38h> Khertan: but yes, you bury it. Deep.
Aug 05 12:32:41 <crashanddie> Khertan, imagine a big supermarket powering all the refrigerators, or a cinema complex air conditioning the whole place using nothing but a little bit of sun :P
Aug 05 12:32:44 <rm_you> X-Fade: still nogo on the wiki for me? >_> sad
Aug 05 12:32:48 <rm_you> who was in charge of that?
Aug 05 12:33:13 <Khertan> crashanddie > there is already my doctors which have installed solar panel at this home
Aug 05 12:33:20 <Khertan> for 20000 Euros ...
Aug 05 12:33:28 <Khertan> it s a bit height
Aug 05 12:33:38 <crashanddie> for 20k ? That's not heat then, that's photovoltaic
Aug 05 12:33:38 <Khertan> it usefull for his 220m2
Aug 05 12:33:51 <Khertan> crashanddie > no ... no ... that s heat
Aug 05 12:34:00 <crashanddie> well... He got ripped off then
Aug 05 12:34:06 <Khertan> ;)
Aug 05 12:34:14 <Khertan> this what i think
Aug 05 12:34:24 <crashanddie> Plus, there's no company in the world currently commercialising the air conditioning infrastructure as presented
Aug 05 12:34:39 <Khertan> crashanddie > this is not the same infrastructure
Aug 05 12:34:40 <crashanddie> there's only one prototype in the whole world, and it's at the uni I worked for :)
Aug 05 12:34:49 <Khertan> this was solar heat panel
Aug 05 12:35:25 <Khertan> the infrastructure showing at the link is really interesting
Aug 05 12:36:10 <crashanddie> One of my teachers equipped his house with thermal panels, the whole house runs off it for 2000euro
Aug 05 12:36:58 <Khertan> crashanddie > more something like this : http://www.nord-nature.org/fiches/fiche_e4.htm
Aug 05 12:37:15 <crashanddie> He doesn't buy water anymore (forage for water + filters == free water), house is heated through solar energy, he's had it for 3 years now, and has nearly reimbursed his initial investment
Aug 05 12:38:00 <Khertan> how much was the initial investment ,
Aug 05 12:38:01 <Khertan> ?
Aug 05 12:38:19 <Khertan> as i'm still looking for an alternativ to my gas installation
Aug 05 12:38:49 <crashanddie> Like I said 2000euro
Aug 05 12:39:35 <crashanddie> but he installed it himself, and there's a lot of sun here, so the return is pretty big
Aug 05 12:39:50 <Khertan> of course ...
Aug 05 12:40:00 <Khertan> look at http://www.nord-nature.org/images/carte_ensoleillement.jpg
Aug 05 12:40:03 <crashanddie> well... "there", not here
Aug 05 12:40:08 <Khertan> i'm 60km north of Paris ...
Aug 05 12:42:24 <crashanddie> yeah... Quite some difference
Aug 05 12:42:31 <crashanddie> anyway, I gotta go
Aug 05 12:44:00 <Stskeeps> Macer: what broke? :)
Aug 05 12:44:26 <Macer> Stskeeps - xfce died on me .. well the menus did at least.. just went away
Aug 05 12:44:31 <Stskeeps> ah
Aug 05 12:44:39 <Stskeeps> nit-env-x + xfce or my environment?
Aug 05 12:44:50 <Macer> i was repositioning it from the top and it disappeared.. and i didn't have it hooked it up my network
Aug 05 12:44:56 <Macer> yours
Aug 05 12:45:08 <Stskeeps> yeah, repositioning kills it
Aug 05 12:45:10 <Stskeeps> it's a known bug
Aug 05 12:45:17 <Macer> what's up with the sound too? i tried installing alsa-oss for /dev/dsp support
Aug 05 12:45:35 <Stskeeps> i haven't tried sound myself but i know johnx was working on it
Aug 05 12:45:40 <Macer> it wouldn't be that bad if there were a way to reboot it when you're not connected to the network.. i was actually working on getting the bt tethering to work
Aug 05 12:45:50 <Stskeeps> Macer: i pop the battery personally
Aug 05 12:45:50 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 05 12:45:53 <Macer> alsamixer detects the pcm channel... but i haven't found anything that uses it
Aug 05 12:45:58 <Macer> that's what i did
Aug 05 12:46:05 <Stskeeps> or go over ssh over usbnet
Aug 05 12:46:09 <Macer> wouldn't boot after that :) kept going into maint mode
Aug 05 12:46:24 <Stskeeps> yeah.. there's a fsck bug or something interfering
Aug 05 12:46:26 <Macer> well.. i didn't have that option at the time.. don't have a cable for i theh
Aug 05 12:46:47 <Macer> the sound isn't as important as the bt tethering
Aug 05 12:46:50 <Stskeeps> there's many challenges in making things work properly for the tablets :P
Aug 05 12:47:05 <Macer> i'm trying to figure out how to get that going heh... i just used kdebluetooth to pair it
Aug 05 12:47:14 <Macer> and i'm still trying to figure out how to pair my su8w
Aug 05 12:47:32 <Macer> oh.. and the battery meter isn't working... er applet
Aug 05 12:47:38 <Stskeeps> yeah, known bug :P
Aug 05 12:47:45 <Stskeeps> it works but it isnt initialized at first
Aug 05 12:47:50 <Stskeeps> but you can readd it and it'll work
Aug 05 12:48:09 <Macer> the battery?
Aug 05 12:48:16 <Stskeeps> yeah, add it to the panel
Aug 05 12:48:24 <Macer> i did.. it's not added by default
Aug 05 12:48:42 <Stskeeps> yeah, that's what the bug is :P the applet is coded badly i think so it doesnt support having xdg-default stuff
Aug 05 12:48:43 <Macer> and there isn't a way to close it unless i kill it
Aug 05 12:49:00 <Macer> does the standard xfce interface have bt tools?
Aug 05 12:49:27 <Stskeeps> possibly
Aug 05 12:49:38 <Stskeeps> you have usbnet ability when reinstalling?
Aug 05 12:50:18 <Stskeeps> if so, go and alter the NIT_ENVIRONMENT in config.py to nit-env-x and just apt-get install xfce4
Aug 05 12:50:19 <Macer> no. don't have a cable for it.. i'm doing it over ssh now
Aug 05 12:50:25 <Stskeeps> k
Aug 05 12:50:27 <Macer> it messed up again ;)
Aug 05 12:50:36 <Macer> and it's not the same error from before with hal
Aug 05 12:50:46 <Stskeeps> did you remember to svn up?
Aug 05 12:50:52 <Stskeeps> i fixed a addgroup problem
Aug 05 12:51:15 <Macer> i sure didn't.. heh.. thought the install was good from the last time when it worked
Aug 05 12:51:41 <Macer> ch# ['chroot', '/mnt/nit-debian', 'apt-get', 'install', '-y', '--force-yes', 'nit-env-stskeeps']
Aug 05 12:51:49 <Stskeeps> yeah, with which error?
Aug 05 12:51:59 <Macer>   nit-env-stskeeps: Depends: nit-env-x but it is not going to be installed
Aug 05 12:52:04 <Macer> missing deps
Aug 05 12:52:08 <Macer> a few of them :)
Aug 05 12:52:17 <Stskeeps> missing dep of nit-env-x are what?
Aug 05 12:52:26 <Macer> want me to paste it ?
Aug 05 12:52:32 <Stskeeps> yeah, on rafb.net/paste
Aug 05 12:52:51 <Stskeeps> .. i'm sitting in a camping trailer on a music festival right now.. at work :)
Aug 05 12:53:07 <Stskeeps> currently collecting GSM samples from the air :P
Aug 05 12:53:27 <RST38h> Decoding 'em, I hope?
Aug 05 12:54:05 <Macer> http://rafb.net/p/v2saUS66.html
Aug 05 12:54:05 <Stskeeps> RST38h: not decrypting - i have some degree of decoding but i'm storing the raw signals for later analysis
Aug 05 12:55:33 <pupnik_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPrZdEPhckk
Aug 05 12:55:39 <Macer> i'll svn up now
Aug 05 12:56:26 <Macer> same error that you fixed ?
Aug 05 12:56:53 <Stskeeps> no, thatÃ's a debian problem
Aug 05 12:57:00 <Stskeeps> means the package system hasn't fully updated
Aug 05 12:57:17 <Stskeeps> sec
Aug 05 12:57:43 <Macer> brb.. going to smoke
Aug 05 12:58:02 <Macer> i was so close to getting the bt stuff working too
Aug 05 12:58:35 <Macer> finally got it paired and came home to try to connect.. but i moved that taskbar by accident.. once the bt works the rest falls into place :) sound isn't that big of an issue just yet
Aug 05 12:58:45 <Stskeeps> it shows as correct on packages.debian.org now, so maybe it works after an apt-get update
Aug 05 12:58:51 <Stskeeps> if the mirror didnt mess up
Aug 05 12:59:13 <Macer> hm
Aug 05 12:59:18 <Macer> well.. i'll give it another try
Aug 05 13:00:00 <Stskeeps> i think when we move closer to an actual release we base off lenny and if people want to go to sid, they can change apt sources
Aug 05 13:00:35 <Stskeeps> as lenny breaks not so often
Aug 05 13:01:14 <Macer> hm.. the xfce4 install... would it have the onscreen kb? :)
Aug 05 13:01:32 <Macer> probably not i'm guessing
Aug 05 13:01:48 <Macer> that is actually a real good kb for the n800
Aug 05 13:02:12 <Macer> much better than what the kde project was using for theirs :) they use some ghetto one that doesn't work too well at all
Aug 05 13:02:29 <Stskeeps> no, but you can start it fromthe menu
Aug 05 13:02:44 <Stskeeps> but it wont be "nicely" integrated cos we dont use matchbox wm..
Aug 05 13:02:58 <Macer> ill stick with your env then
Aug 05 13:03:36 <pupnik_> Your lichen-covered corpuscles are filthy to my fist
Aug 05 13:03:43 <pupnik_> Infection is your finest flower, mildewed in the mist
Aug 05 13:07:17 <Macer> ok.. i'm running the install again
Aug 05 13:07:20 * Macer crosses fingers
Aug 05 13:08:18 <Macer> Stskeeps - you have any thread that has sound success stories? i'd love to know for sure if it works.. like i said. alsamixer detected the pcm channel... but i had yet to figure out how to get the sound working
Aug 05 13:09:39 <RST38h> pupnik: Just don't listen to this on the plane, or drug-sniffing dogs will attack you on arrival!
Aug 05 13:13:37 <andre___> is the libconic code closed source or am i just to stupid to find it? garr
Aug 05 13:25:53 <Italodance> someone has OpenTTD on IT?
Aug 05 13:26:27 <RST38h> me
Aug 05 13:28:39 <Italodance> RST38h i installed it by my app manager but it doesn't work
Aug 05 13:29:57 <aquatix> maybe you need the data files?
Aug 05 13:30:12 <aquatix> from the original game?
Aug 05 13:31:07 <Italodance> well the install deb file is empty?
Aug 05 13:32:38 <Italodance> it's about 7.3 mb on my device now
Aug 05 13:33:38 <aquatix> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=36042&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=0
Aug 05 13:33:44 <aquatix> # You need to have non-free TTD files put in /media/mmc1/openttd/data.
Aug 05 13:33:50 <hrw> andre___: open it is
Aug 05 13:34:09 <andre___> well, i can browse 0.16 in mxr
Aug 05 13:34:19 <andre___> but can i see development in trunk?
Aug 05 13:34:28 <andre___> something that would become 0.17?
Aug 05 13:34:33 <Italodance> aquatix so i need the files for /media/mmc1/openttd/data.
Aug 05 13:34:38 <Italodance> tnx man
Aug 05 13:35:00 <hrw> andre___: library is open. its development is probably not
Aug 05 13:35:19 <aquatix> Italodance: yeah, the data files from the original game
Aug 05 13:35:25 <andre___> hrw: hah. yeah, that's also my expectation :-(
Aug 05 13:35:29 <aquatix> *cough* torrent *cough*
Aug 05 13:36:44 <Macer> Stskeeps - same error :)
Aug 05 13:36:50 <Italodance> aquatix the icon is unknown on my menu,do u have a real icon?
Aug 05 13:37:32 <RST38h> italo: need data files
Aug 05 13:37:39 <aquatix> Italodance: i don't have openttd on my n810 yet, so no, sorry
Aug 05 13:37:50 <aquatix> Italodance: but i think you can find plenty online
Aug 05 13:38:01 <aquatix> from the official openttd package/site maybe?
Aug 05 13:38:48 <Italodance> the date on /usr/share/games/openttd/data? is wrong?
Aug 05 13:40:50 <mikkov_> original ttd data file are illegal to distribute, so you just have to search for them
Aug 05 13:42:02 <hrw> or buy them
Aug 05 13:42:32 <mikkov_> if they are for sale ;)
Aug 05 13:42:34 <hrw> 50 pln it costs here
Aug 05 13:42:53 <mikkov_> oh they are? :)
Aug 05 13:43:14 <hrw> its on auction site
Aug 05 13:46:00 <RST38h> I did not need to search for data files to play openttd
Aug 05 13:46:10 <RST38h> all the data was already on the site, official or not I do not know
Aug 05 13:47:13 <aquatix> hm
Aug 05 13:47:25 <aquatix> i needed to get the data files when i installed it on debian
Aug 05 13:47:32 <aquatix> but maybe that was because of debian :)
Aug 05 13:47:49 <aquatix> but iirc also because it is illegal to distribute the original data
Aug 05 13:52:19 <RST38h> http://web.mit.edu/zacka/www/images/warcartoverview.gif
Aug 05 13:53:59 <terbo> pimp my shopping cart
Aug 05 13:54:03 <aquatix> wow
Aug 05 13:54:37 <XTLi> Needs a motor
Aug 05 13:54:51 <terbo> and a generator
Aug 05 13:54:59 <LinuxCode> hey guys
Aug 05 13:55:04 <XTLi> Since the wheels trotate, obviously propulsion
Aug 05 13:55:07 <LinuxCode> I had to flash with the root option right ?
Aug 05 13:55:13 <LinuxCode> to get the gainroot to work ?
Aug 05 13:55:20 <LinuxCode> I cant recall what I did last time
Aug 05 13:55:42 <LinuxCode> and Im in Germany atm so I cant check my notes at home
Aug 05 13:57:50 <terbo> its r&d mode not root, i think thats what you're talking about
Aug 05 13:58:09 <LinuxCode> yah sorry
Aug 05 13:58:11 <LinuxCode> hehe
Aug 05 13:58:18 <LinuxCode> as I said... havent got my notes here
Aug 05 13:58:25 <LinuxCode> long time ago I flashed the thing
Aug 05 13:58:39 <LinuxCode> weird thing is...Im sure last time I didnt use the r&d option
Aug 05 13:58:42 <LinuxCode> anyway
Aug 05 13:58:50 <LinuxCode> guess I will have to reflash then
Aug 05 13:59:12 <terbo> always good to be researching and developing.
Aug 05 13:59:18 <LinuxCode> haha
Aug 05 13:59:21 <LinuxCode> indeed
Aug 05 13:59:34 <LinuxCode> well I want my gpe office suite
Aug 05 13:59:36 <LinuxCode> ;-p
Aug 05 13:59:42 <LinuxCode> without it the N810 is useless to me
Aug 05 14:00:57 <Italodance> 20080306150943-openttd_r12346-maemo_port.patch is this necessary?
Aug 05 14:02:54 * terbo heard you guys talking about ttd and wants to try it out - it wasn't very fun on the psp
Aug 05 14:04:51 <lcuk> LinuxCode, hi there, what ya after?   just root on the device?
Aug 05 14:04:52 <Stskeeps> Macer: switch RELEASE in config.py to lenny?
Aug 05 14:05:04 <LinuxCode> ohh hi mate
Aug 05 14:05:14 <LinuxCode> well technically I was yes
Aug 05 14:05:20 <LinuxCode> Im already flashing mate
Aug 05 14:05:27 <LinuxCode> how ya keeping ?
Aug 05 14:06:17 <lcuk> busy as usual :) im @ work now so wont be stopping.  theres a becomeroot package or something for the device that you can install and then sudo gainroot
Aug 05 14:06:36 <LinuxCode> yah
Aug 05 14:06:39 <lcuk> better than messin with r&d flags
Aug 05 14:06:43 <LinuxCode> but it wanted r&d mode
Aug 05 14:06:46 <LinuxCode> ;-p
Aug 05 14:06:50 <LinuxCode> with the latest flash image
Aug 05 14:06:58 <LinuxCode> and Im sure I had flashed it last time
Aug 05 14:07:07 <LinuxCode> but not 100% sure
Aug 05 14:07:26 <mikkov_> Italodance: where are you looking at?
Aug 05 14:07:31 <LinuxCode> or maybe not
Aug 05 14:07:36 <LinuxCode> I would have noticed
Aug 05 14:09:24 <Italodance> mikkov_ http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=36042&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=0
Aug 05 14:11:25 <Veggen> Hmmf.
Aug 05 14:11:50 <Veggen> Dunno what I'm doing wrong. This used to be easy. But I suddenly can't get my n810 to use my new Nokia E51.
Aug 05 14:11:51 <mikkov_> I think that that patch is already included in maemo build
Aug 05 14:13:29 <Italodance> me too
Aug 05 14:14:22 <Proteous> I wish there was an E51 version that supported the 1900 3G frequency
Aug 05 14:14:54 <Proteous> all the cool 3g nokia phones just do 850 and 2100
Aug 05 14:15:40 * aquatix is liking the e71
Aug 05 14:15:48 <aquatix> might even be my next phone
Aug 05 14:15:54 <aquatix> first nokia phone :)
Aug 05 14:17:05 <OmegaEvil> was the last version of maemo updated ?
Aug 05 14:17:13 <OmegaEvil> not just the flash image ?
Aug 05 14:17:40 <hrw> Proteous: 1900?
Aug 05 14:18:24 <Proteous> hrw: yeah, AT&T uses 850 and 1900 for it's UMTS
Aug 05 14:19:12 <Proteous> were as europe uses 850 and 2100
Aug 05 14:20:09 <Proteous> not that I can get 3g connectivity at my house
Aug 05 14:20:20 <Proteous> but all the nearby cities have coverage
Aug 05 14:20:23 <hrw> Proteous: ah.. USA..
Aug 05 14:20:34 <hrw> you guys have to use strange things
Aug 05 14:20:42 <Proteous> heh
Aug 05 14:21:45 <OmegaEvil> ehhh
Aug 05 14:21:54 <OmegaEvil> isnt r&d mode the blue pill mode ?
Aug 05 14:22:02 <terbo> they are seperate.
Aug 05 14:26:44 <Khertan> re
Aug 05 14:31:54 <lardman> Right, I bought a bluenext bn909gr
Aug 05 14:32:00 <lardman> ~£25
Aug 05 14:50:51 <Italodance> done /media/mmc1/openttd/data.
Aug 05 14:50:59 <Italodance> but didn't work why?
Aug 05 14:57:22 <terbo> hmm, mine is in /usr/share/games/openttd/data .
Aug 05 14:58:18 <terbo> ~7mb
Aug 05 14:59:00 <Italodance> terbo me too but it's full data pack?
Aug 05 14:59:31 <Italodance> guys told me that need the original files to put in /media/mmc1/openttd/data.
Aug 05 14:59:37 <Italodance> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=36042&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
Aug 05 15:01:01 <terbo> well, let me gander at the windows install i copied data/ from.
Aug 05 15:01:33 <Italodance> yes please send me
Aug 05 15:02:34 <aquatix> Italodance: erm, didn't you download the original game yet then
Aug 05 15:02:35 <aquatix> ?
Aug 05 15:02:45 <terbo> i mean psp .. its 22mb total with scenarios .. i can't remember if its the *full pack, game loads and plays fine on diablo though
Aug 05 15:04:37 <Italodance> aquatix yes wait
Aug 05 15:06:25 <Italodance> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=210397#post210397post210397
Aug 05 15:06:27 <Italodance> ?????
Aug 05 15:08:08 <aquatix> Italodance: your point being?
Aug 05 15:08:20 <Italodance> wait 1 fix it again
Aug 05 15:10:22 <Italodance> plz look again
Aug 05 15:10:37 <Italodance> brb
Aug 05 15:12:21 <terbo> wow lots of stuff there.
Aug 05 15:20:31 <Italodance> ok
Aug 05 15:28:43 <hrw> bye
Aug 05 15:29:40 <Khertan> Itt : >>> Introducing Tablet Scene
Aug 05 15:29:48 <Khertan> have you see that ?
Aug 05 15:30:15 <Proteous> is that were I can get all my 0-day tablet warz?
Aug 05 15:30:45 <Proteous> warez
Aug 05 15:30:49 <Proteous> or whatever
Aug 05 15:31:28 <Khertan> lol
Aug 05 15:31:31 <mikkov_> another web forum :(
Aug 05 15:31:58 <Khertan> i think is a bad idea to divide community
Aug 05 15:32:36 <Proteous> no, it's a great idea, we can have one forum for trolls and one for actual questions and answers
Aug 05 15:32:47 <Proteous> the real trick will be to get the trolls to only use one forum
Aug 05 15:33:00 * aquatix uses bullets on trolls
Aug 05 15:33:01 <aquatix> ;)
Aug 05 15:33:08 * Proteous uses fire on trolls
Aug 05 15:33:16 <Proteous> less chance of regeneration
Aug 05 15:33:27 <aquatix> first bullets, then napalm
Aug 05 15:33:30 * Khertan use acid on trolls
Aug 05 15:33:34 <Khertan> work better
Aug 05 15:33:36 <aquatix> acid napalm
Aug 05 15:33:50 * aquatix is developing on the fly ;)
Aug 05 15:34:26 * lbt summons his pet red dragon
Aug 05 15:34:29 <Khertan> aquatix > on the fly ? on a plane ... or ... with the methode iso1664 ?
Aug 05 15:34:39 <Khertan> aquatix > on the fly ? on a plane ... or ... with the methodology iso1664 ?
Aug 05 15:35:20 <Proteous> on a boat? with a goat? in a box, with a fox?
Aug 05 15:35:42 <Proteous> I do not like them Sam-I-am, I do not like green eggs and ham
Aug 05 15:36:16 <Khertan> http://www.cafenware.org/la-rache/zfiles//kro.jpg
Aug 05 15:36:27 * Proteous spices up the channel with some Dr, Seuss
Aug 05 15:36:33 <aquatix> Khertan: in my airship, using my portable lab
Aug 05 15:36:43 <aquatix> Khertan: haha
Aug 05 15:37:26 <Khertan> on the fly ---> french translation ---> 'a la volée' ---> iso1664
Aug 05 15:38:01 <Italodance> Proteous
Aug 05 15:38:03 <Italodance> lol
Aug 05 15:38:14 <Italodance> i am on trade :)
Aug 05 15:39:03 <Khertan> and me ... i ll dev onboard in the train in some minutes ... directly on the nit ...
Aug 05 15:39:14 <Khertan> no need of useless portable ...
Aug 05 15:39:23 <Khertan> much greater !
Aug 05 15:39:24 <Khertan> :)
Aug 05 15:39:28 <Khertan> bye
Aug 05 15:39:39 * aquatix -> home
Aug 05 15:48:40 <t_s_o> hmm, the N800 usb port can do 2.0 speeds, yes?
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 05 16:02:02 2008
Aug 05 16:05:34 <qwerty12> Haha, we had a party while you were gone
Aug 05 16:05:44 <Khertan_n810> Hi !
Aug 05 16:05:45 <Khertan_n810> i ve some problem with maemo-launcher which reset many time a days ... someone have the same problem and use large status bar ?
Aug 05 16:05:50 <qwerty12> Khertan_n810: Me :(. Do you have alarms disabled in large statusbar clock?
Aug 05 16:05:54 <Khertan_n810> hum don t know i ll check
Aug 05 16:05:55 <qwerty12> Use the setting in options
Aug 05 16:06:09 <Khertan_n810> alarm enabled
Aug 05 16:06:30 <Khertan_n810> there is a bug on this thing ?
Aug 05 16:06:34 <qwerty12> yep
Aug 05 16:06:51 <Khertan_n810> ok ... i will keep it disabled so
Aug 05 16:07:14 <Khertan_n810> this is why i get many reset as i was testing alarm in mcalendar :)
Aug 05 16:07:22 <qwerty12> :)
Aug 05 16:07:58 * qwerty12 can't decide to whether to install Unreal Tournament in Linux or Windows :/
Aug 05 16:08:38 <qwerty12> blafasel: btw, is your ati driver messing up still?
Aug 05 16:10:17 <Khertan_n810> qwerty12 > under linux ... better gl driver ...more fps
Aug 05 16:10:19 <Khertan_n810> :)
Aug 05 16:10:31 <Khertan_n810> this is what i see on my pc
Aug 05 16:11:08 <qwerty12> Khertan_n810: Thanks :). I'll have to try and figure out how to install umod's, can't live w/out them :)
Aug 05 16:11:50 <Khertan_n810> same thing for diablo2 with wine
Aug 05 16:12:18 <qwerty12> heh, I'm going to play native with a loki installer
Aug 05 16:14:09 <Khertan_n810> loki ?
Aug 05 16:14:24 <qwerty12> http://www.liflg.org/
Aug 05 16:14:41 <Khertan_n810> when i will come back to home i ll look for my diablo2 cd key to play it again
Aug 05 16:14:49 <qwerty12> For old games though, loki went of business years ago. But they did some brilliant ports to linux...
Aug 05 16:21:14 <jott> http://www.zeemote.com might be funny to use.
Aug 05 16:22:42 <johnx> it's bluetooth, right?
Aug 05 16:23:43 <qwerty12> "The Zeemoteâ„¢ JS1 wirelessly communicates via Bluetooth with your phone. "
Aug 05 16:24:32 <qwerty12> This would be interesting to use on my W810 & N80. not exactly phones with gaming in mind...
Aug 05 16:44:05 <zap> X-Fade: could you take a look whats up, zip/zip3 are in extras-devel more than a day, but in Packages file they are missing
Aug 05 17:01:59 <Khertan_n810> i ve 3 gtk.expander in a gtk.vbox in a gtkscrollwindow
Aug 05 17:02:20 <Khertan_n810> and gtk scrolledwindow dont scroll
Aug 05 17:02:37 <Khertan_n810> is there a way to make this working ?
Aug 05 17:03:13 <lcuk> isnt the expander meant to just fill a gap and make sure contents fit?   ie overriding the need for scrolling?
Aug 05 17:03:19 <lcuk> try taking it out and seeing if it works
Aug 05 17:03:29 <Khertan_n810> it look like my vbox isn t in the scrolledwindow
Aug 05 17:04:10 <Khertan_n810> if u expand two expander at the  same there isn t not enougth same on a maemo window
Aug 05 17:04:19 <Khertan_n810> only 480pixel height
Aug 05 17:04:48 <lcuk> does it work if you create each element on its own - ie just a box or just a label or something
Aug 05 17:05:01 <Khertan_n810> don t know
Aug 05 17:05:17 <Khertan_n810> and glade is a bit hard to use on the nit
Aug 05 17:05:54 <lcuk> yer i bet, its a complex app expecting lots of space
Aug 05 17:06:16 <Khertan_n810> with a palette for a windows :)
Aug 05 17:06:38 <Khertan_n810> since 3.4 we can detach it
Aug 05 17:06:55 <Khertan_n810> s/it/them
Aug 05 17:08:02 <Khertan_n810> but hopefully it works
Aug 05 17:09:04 <Khertan_n810> lcuk > does your are able to make thing work ?
Aug 05 17:09:33 <lcuk> i dont use gtk
Aug 05 17:09:46 <smackpotato> whats the significance of a traceroute of my provider ends at searchportal.information.com
Aug 05 17:10:14 <smackpotato> a search says information.com is a spamer
Aug 05 17:10:19 <Khertan_n810> hum ...
Aug 05 17:10:49 <lcuk> khertan, but normally you can suss a problem if you simplify the parameters
Aug 05 17:11:11 <lcuk> see what works by removing as much confusion as possible
Aug 05 17:11:11 <smackpotato> i band the url on my router right or wrong
Aug 05 17:11:37 <Khertan_n810> hum ... i ll say to all user that say can only view and set name of a contact :)
Aug 05 17:11:44 <Khertan_n810> much simplier
Aug 05 17:11:46 <Khertan_n810> :)
Aug 05 17:11:53 <lcuk> lol
Aug 05 17:11:58 <lcuk> smackpotato, what are you on about
Aug 05 17:13:59 <smackpotato> im on about 40 grams of happyness. real life im about a slow conection
Aug 05 17:14:39 <crashanddie> there's no why in happiness
Aug 05 17:15:25 <smackpotato> ok i hapless
Aug 05 17:15:51 <Khertan_n810> hum gtkscrolledwindow is limited to some widget
Aug 05 17:15:52 <Khertan_n810>     * Some widgets have native scrolling support using "slots" to hold gtk.Adjustment objects. Widgets with native scroll support include gtk.TreeView, gtk.TextView, and gtk.Layout.
Aug 05 17:16:37 <smackpotato> what other channel should i ask this in
Aug 05 17:17:27 <crashanddie> smackpotato, please state your problem clearly
Aug 05 17:17:53 <Khertan_n810> bye
Aug 05 17:24:21 <smackpotato2> to continue....
Aug 05 17:26:58 <smackpotato2> i then did a traceroot to the server imediatly after my router. the tracerout ended at information.com a search reveals that information.com is a spammer
Aug 05 17:28:59 <smackpotato2> i band invformation.com on my router is that a good move or bad
Aug 05 17:31:53 <Stskeeps> johnx: did you manage to uncover what the sound issue was?
Aug 05 17:33:23 <lcuk> smackpotato, we have no idea what you are on about, if you aimed for a subdomain of information.com then the traceroute will end there?
Aug 05 17:36:24 <smackpotato2> ive solved the problem thanks
Aug 05 17:43:51 <crashanddie> X-Fade, do you have a link that explains how to contribute to the website development ?
Aug 05 17:46:06 <crashanddie> smackpotato2, there's no way in hell the next server after your router is some website, and banning a whole domain is never a good idea, unless you have good reasons. Moreoever, blacklisting a domain which supposedly is on your default route to the internet is just plain stupid.
Aug 05 17:49:27 <lcuk> crashanddie, its a self curing situation.  let him block whatever domains he wants :)
Aug 05 17:49:38 <crashanddie> haha
Aug 05 17:50:14 <crashanddie> yeah, same thing as the safety labels for stupidity in America
Aug 05 18:08:24 <lardman> evening
Aug 05 18:09:24 <lcuk> hi lard
Aug 05 18:09:59 * lcuk is ever so impressed by his device
Aug 05 18:10:18 <nomis> evening.
Aug 05 18:11:19 <lcuk> nomis, hi
Aug 05 18:11:55 <nomis> lcuk: do you have your gstreamer code available?
Aug 05 18:12:12 <lcuk> WAS JUST TRYING TO GET PASTEBIN UP AND RUNNING
Aug 05 18:12:15 <lcuk> ooops
Aug 05 18:12:27 * jott adjusts his earplugs
Aug 05 18:13:05 <lcuk> http://slexy.org/raw/s20kqG7ZTP
Aug 05 18:13:22 <lcuk> and the only other thing needed is : gst_element_set_state(pipeline, GST_STATE_PLAYING);
Aug 05 18:14:16 <nomis> ok.
Aug 05 18:14:29 <nomis> lcuk: why does one need two ffmpegcolorspace filters?
Aug 05 18:15:23 <lcuk> heh - i hadnt realised that, but it might not.. lemme see
Aug 05 18:15:40 <fatal__> hmm. any good ideas how to calculate the total length of the route, as recorded by meamomapper?
Aug 05 18:15:42 <lcuk> they were originally there along the branch i wnted
Aug 05 18:15:50 <fatal__> (was biking a bit today)
Aug 05 18:16:05 <lardman> fatal__: write a script to sum the sections?
Aug 05 18:16:16 <fatal__> well, can try that too
Aug 05 18:16:17 <yigal> does anyone know what version of texlive supports synctex?
Aug 05 18:16:22 <lcuk> fatal__, walk back around your route counting steps (walk heel to toe to ensure accuracy)
Aug 05 18:16:47 <nomis> fatal__: for the length between two coordinates there is a utility function in liblocation. It probably yields a too long result though, since errors add up...
Aug 05 18:16:51 <pupnik> fatal__: can you get altitude info logged also?
Aug 05 18:16:51 <lardman> fatal__: wil be interesting as the lat-long varies
Aug 05 18:17:13 <pupnik> i'd like to make a height profile of my rides / routes
Aug 05 18:17:14 <yigal> oh, sorry wrong channel, #latex :)
Aug 05 18:17:23 <lardman> pupnik: it's probably not atm, but should be a one-line tweak I'd have thought to write it
Aug 05 18:19:45 <nomis> I wonder if there is an "inverse" function to gst_parse_launch() - give it a pipeline and it dumps out a textual description.
Aug 05 18:23:23 <Italodance> who's from korea?
Aug 05 18:23:34 <crashanddie_> koreans
Aug 05 18:23:45 <crashanddie_> they're usually from korea
Aug 05 18:24:03 <Italodance> y
Aug 05 18:24:07 <Italodance> lol
Aug 05 18:24:16 <crashanddie_> why? just because
Aug 05 18:24:16 <Italodance> here
Aug 05 18:24:32 <lcuk> nomis, :) thank you
Aug 05 18:24:43 <lcuk> you just sped up the startup immensely
Aug 05 18:25:03 <nomis> lcuk: hah!  :)
Aug 05 18:25:03 <lcuk> though npw the colors look odd i think
Aug 05 18:25:14 <mgedmin_> w
Aug 05 18:25:29 <lcuk> but thats possible just my view, but shadows are green
Aug 05 18:25:38 <lcuk> hi mgedmin
Aug 05 18:26:25 <mgedmin_> hi
Aug 05 18:26:28 * lcuk restores the old one to compare
Aug 05 18:26:40 <Svovl> Good evening
Aug 05 18:27:20 <Svovl> Are there any of you who have had luck using Twisted networking in Maemo through pluthon?
Aug 05 18:27:44 <lcuk> my network is pretty twisted, but no i prefer to use wireless
Aug 05 18:28:11 <mgedmin_> twisted is an amazing python framework for network stuff
Aug 05 18:28:25 * mgedmin_ stays away from eclipse
Aug 05 18:28:28 <mgedmin_> so, no
Aug 05 18:29:04 <lcuk> nomis, i have green shadows whichever way i look, and you are right i only need one filter
Aug 05 18:29:04 <Jaffa> Freevo is trying to move away from Twisted
Aug 05 18:29:51 <Svovl> Okay... ive gotten Twisted installed and all ? after some work ? but I can't seem to connect to anything from within my python programs... I don't get any errors either... its wierd
Aug 05 18:30:11 <Svovl> Is there something you have to set up on the device in order to make network connection from a python program?
Aug 05 18:30:16 <mgedmin_> no
Aug 05 18:30:28 <mgedmin_> I assume your device is online?
Aug 05 18:31:11 <Svovl> Yes
Aug 05 18:31:58 <Svovl> Perhaps I messed up in the twisted installation then...
Aug 05 18:32:17 <nomis> lcuk: ok, cool.
Aug 05 18:32:48 <nomis> I guess I have to print out the bus messages to understand what goes wrong for me.
Aug 05 18:32:59 <lcuk> does the camer activate?
Aug 05 18:33:14 <mgedmin_> nomis: pastebin your code somewhere?
Aug 05 18:33:16 <lcuk> and does it work normally with the base example code
Aug 05 18:33:24 <mgedmin_> e.g. http://maemo.pastey.net
Aug 05 18:34:08 * mgedmin_ is not exactly a great twisted expert, but he has used it a while ago, and some bugs are obvious to everyone else except the original programmer
Aug 05 18:36:23 <nomis> mgedmin_: http://maemo.pastey.net/93158
Aug 05 18:36:45 <mgedmin_> that's not python...
Aug 05 18:37:05 <mgedmin_> oops, got you confused with Svovl for some reason
Aug 05 18:37:12 <mgedmin_> thought you were talking about the twisted problem
Aug 05 18:37:17 <nomis> mgedmin_: heh, ok  :)
Aug 05 18:37:18 <mgedmin_> sorry!
Aug 05 18:37:32 <lcuk> nomis, are you missing a ! from this line:    "tee name=t ! queue ! xvimagesink name=xvsink    "
Aug 05 18:38:03 <mgedmin_> at the end, after xvsink?
Aug 05 18:38:11 <nomis> lcuk: but there is no connection between the xvimagesink and the tee source.
Aug 05 18:39:39 <nomis> lcuk: I am absolutely unsure if this is the correct syntax to use for the branched pipeline, but that is what I read from the description in man gst-launch.
Aug 05 18:40:59 <nomis> there unfortunately is not a single tee usage in the gst-launch examples.
Aug 05 18:41:33 <lcuk> take the tee out then - you mentioned earlier you dont need it
Aug 05 18:41:55 <nomis> lcuk: well, in the End I'll probably need it, because I want to save the camera image as jpeg.
Aug 05 18:42:01 <lcuk> tee is exactly that: a t junction.  remove it and glue both expected pieces
Aug 05 18:42:14 <lcuk> get it working then reinsert it
Aug 05 18:42:43 <lcuk> at least then you will know if its the syntax of the break (which you cant find docs for) or if its some other bit of code
Aug 05 18:43:56 <crashanddie_> then implement it later
Aug 05 18:43:56 <crashanddie_> you'll probably want to take out as many variables out of the equation until it works
Aug 05 18:44:24 <nomis> crashanddie_: the problem is that you already need quite a lot of elements to get a working playback with gstreamer.
Aug 05 18:44:40 <lcuk> 3
Aug 05 18:44:47 <lcuk> (as you yourself pointed out)
Aug 05 18:45:14 <crashanddie_> nomis, I analyse raw gstreamer, I know how shitty and counter intuitive it is
Aug 05 18:45:28 <lcuk> you could test your gstreamer by using the camera example, or the barcode thing of lardmans
Aug 05 18:45:58 <crashanddie_> s/,/ data,/
Aug 05 18:45:58 <infobot> crashanddie_ meant: nomis data, I analyse raw gstreamer, I know how shitty and counter intuitive it is
Aug 05 18:46:13 <lcuk> lol
Aug 05 18:46:17 <crashanddie_> djeezus
Aug 05 18:46:31 <lcuk> <infobot> crashanddie_ meant: nomis, I analyse raw regex, I know how shitty and counter intuitive it is
Aug 05 18:46:36 <nomis> crashanddie_: do you understand the string notation of gstreamer?
Aug 05 18:46:45 <nomis> (the one with lots of exclamation marks?"
Aug 05 18:47:17 <crashanddie_> short answer, no (i'm eating)
Aug 05 18:47:23 <nomis> crashanddie_: I wonder what is the "correct" way to write down the equivalent of gst_element_link_filtered().
Aug 05 18:47:36 <nomis> crashanddie_: ok, won't distract you then :)
Aug 05 18:53:16 <lcuk> nomis http://linux.die.net/man/1/gst-launch-0.10   has lots of syntax and info i think
Aug 05 18:53:47 <nomis> lcuk: yeah, that is the manpage. without tee usage  :)
Aug 05 18:54:05 <lcuk> take out the tee and get the rest working then
Aug 05 18:54:29 <nomis> lcuk: working on it.
Aug 05 18:54:29 <lcuk> give yourself a boost by seeing it work - then add features (or ship it if it compiles)
Aug 05 18:55:17 <nomis> lcuk: my problem is not getting it to work: when copying the camera example code I have working stuff. My problem is trying to understand how this works and how this maps to the descriptive strings.
Aug 05 18:55:47 <nomis> (and why it breaks when I change the assembly of the pipeline)
Aug 05 18:56:00 <lcuk> but the camera example is built like the one i pasted: single pieces linked without using a command string
Aug 05 18:57:16 <Macer> penguinbait has a plugin for his kde install
Aug 05 18:58:03 <lcuk> also, nomis some examples crop up here: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gst-launch+tee
Aug 05 18:58:53 <nomis> lcuk: ok, I am working on two problems here. The first is: why does the display in an xvideo overlay stops working when I cut one branch of the pipeline (the one for the jpeg) and the other problem is: how do I map the branched pipeline to a descriptive string. Sorry if I am not exactly clear on what problem I am trying to solve...
Aug 05 18:59:44 <nomis> lcuk: yeah, this is why my pasted code earlier was missing the exclamation mark you stumbled across.
Aug 05 18:59:53 <lcuk> i see now
Aug 05 19:00:09 <nomis> the syntax seems slightly b0rk to me at that point.
Aug 05 19:01:17 <jott> nomis: make sure you have requested the right image format/resolution form the v4l2 source.
Aug 05 19:02:09 <nomis> Ok, I'll focus on the "how to set up a pipeline from v4l2src to xvimagesink so that it actually shows stuff (i.e. getting rid of the branch for the jpegs)
Aug 05 19:04:08 <lcuk> nomis, the #else branch of the code you pasted earlier
Aug 05 19:04:17 <lcuk> it is missing a whole block with params for the camera
Aug 05 19:04:42 <lcuk> depth and framerate ones
Aug 05 19:04:58 <lcuk> that might explain why its not working as expected
Aug 05 19:06:57 <jott> you need to provide some inital parameters for v4l2 as it seems.
Aug 05 19:06:58 <nomis> lcuk: mhm, you mean the "bpp", "depth" and "framerate" arguments from the second gst_caps_new_simple() invocation in the camera example affect the pipeline backwards to the v4l-source?
Aug 05 19:07:33 <nomis> so they have an implicit effect of the pipeline towards the xvsink. Might actually make sense.
Aug 05 19:08:21 <jott> the camera supports only certain resolutions, when you just attach a xvsink it will use the size of the xvsink and most likely fail.
Aug 05 19:08:31 <lcuk> when i link the camera to the ffmpegcolorspace i have a caps thing in place telling it format/w/h/framerate
Aug 05 19:08:32 <jott> (and certain pixel formats)
Aug 05 19:08:50 <jott> that's why you plug something like ffmpegcolorspace inbetween
Aug 05 19:09:11 <jott> brb
Aug 05 19:09:17 <lcuk> hi and bye jott
Aug 05 19:15:35 <Veggen> wee.
Aug 05 19:15:52 <Veggen> ok, not perfect match.
Aug 05 19:16:27 <Veggen> but the sleeve for my ancient (and no longer used) Compaq Ipaq (that I used to run Linux on) fits for the n810.
Aug 05 19:16:57 <Veggen> Solves my immediate problem (need to find a better match. This one will have the problem of the device sliding out of it too easily.
Aug 05 19:20:26 <corq-ubu> how to I get the pipe char -> | from the N810 keyboard? is the a key combo or must I pull up the keymap?
Aug 05 19:21:10 <nomis> corq-ubu: press the "chr" key on the keyboard and the down arrow on the character list that pops up.
Aug 05 19:21:55 <corq-ubu> sweet! thx
Aug 05 19:24:01 <nomis> lcuk, jott: http://maemo.pastey.net/93161  does not work although I believe it to be a stripped down version of the camera example. Do you see any obvious errors?
Aug 05 19:24:17 <nomis> Gstreamer complains that it "could not negotiate format".
Aug 05 19:25:41 <Veggen> hmmf. Have been struggling the whole evening: This *must* be something stupid. I can't get the n810 to use the Internet of my Nokia E51.
Aug 05 19:26:08 <Veggen> please, someone, point me to something obvious that I've forgotten ;)
Aug 05 19:26:16 <Veggen> (and yes, they *are* paired :)
Aug 05 19:26:21 <liri> uhmm, anyone with experience using N810 GPS and RoadMap?
Aug 05 19:27:53 <nomis> hah!
Aug 05 19:28:19 <nomis> omitting the "bpp" and "depth" parameters helps.
Aug 05 19:28:35 <nomis> one must not omit the "framerate" thing though.
Aug 05 19:29:26 <lcuk> nomis, cool, so it works without then?
Aug 05 19:30:06 <lcuk> you have removed the other half of the tee to me :) i didnt want automatic updating to screen, and merely needed some memory bytes filling in
Aug 05 19:32:26 <nomis> lcuk: yeah, and both are offending individually. (not sure what they mean anyway).
Aug 05 19:32:51 <lcuk> trying to force the bitdepth (number of colors) on a fixed screen
Aug 05 19:33:07 <nomis> yeah, maybe it is not a problem of the video source, but the xvimagesink.
Aug 05 19:33:19 <nomis> lcuk: yeah, but what is the difference between "bpp" and "depth"=
Aug 05 19:33:21 <nomis> ?
Aug 05 19:33:36 <lcuk> probably just synonyms of each other
Aug 05 19:33:41 <nomis> *is* there a difference?
Aug 05 19:33:43 <nomis> yeah.
Aug 05 19:34:09 <nomis> ok.
Aug 05 19:34:26 <nomis> Next step: convert this into a textual description.
Aug 05 19:34:39 <lcuk> and thanks to this whole discussion i can get the camera up and displaying data within 1 second of starting
Aug 05 19:44:54 <pupnik> is there a webcam type app for the tablets?>
Aug 05 19:46:27 <nomis> lcuk: "v4l2src ! video/x-raw-rgb,width=640,height=480,framerate=15/1 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! queue ! xvimagesink name=xvsink" apparently is the equivalent textual description. Note that the capabilities need to be written *between* the two elements linked together by gst_element_link_filtered().
Aug 05 19:46:54 <lcuk> cool
Aug 05 19:47:03 <lcuk> pupnik, "camera"
Aug 05 19:47:13 <lcuk> or grab barcode scan thing
Aug 05 19:47:21 <lcuk> or did you mean to send to pc
Aug 05 19:47:50 <pupnik> yes,
Aug 05 19:47:53 <pupnik> or streaming directly
Aug 05 19:50:45 <lcuk> pupnik,  isnt there an IM type thing that can do it
Aug 05 19:51:02 <nomis> pupnik: would not be surprised if such a webcam app would just consist of setting up a gstreamer pipeline and let it play. There are plugins for networking.
Aug 05 20:07:20 <crashanddie> back
Aug 05 20:35:41 <terbo> due to a glitch in the system, my first compile of tcsh has completed, and i have yayed
Aug 05 20:37:46 <msh> evening. anyone seen a case where ldconfig on scratchbox armel/diablo runs forever and is unkillable?
Aug 05 20:43:25 <msh> hrm. guess it must be a host-os kernel bug
Aug 05 20:43:46 <msh> (ubuntu hardy)
Aug 05 20:48:38 <qos> are there some vala bindings for home applets out there?
Aug 05 20:51:44 <liri> I'm getting an apt-get error when trying to install a new pacakge - http://pastebin.ca/1093157 - I'm after a diablo reflash so maybe it concerns that...
Aug 05 20:52:26 <qos> liri, i guess there is a repository missing ...
Aug 05 20:59:07 <RST38h> moo all
Aug 05 21:01:11 <zap> boo
Aug 05 21:01:21 <zap> RST38h: what CPU has a GB?
Aug 05 21:02:18 <zap> msh: I'm running scratchbox in ubuntu 8.04 and have zero problems
Aug 05 21:03:31 <Hrw|n810> ho
Aug 05 21:04:10 <RST38h> zap: modified Z80
Aug 05 21:04:17 <RST38h> 3.57MHz
Aug 05 21:04:28 <RST38h> GBC doubles the clock
Aug 05 21:06:09 <Hrw|n810> RST38h, z80 goes to over 20MHz iirc
Aug 05 21:06:39 <Hrw|n810> spectrum had 3.57
Aug 05 21:07:21 <RST38h> hrw: there are higher frequency parts now
Aug 05 21:07:30 <RST38h> all compatible with z80 opcodes
Aug 05 21:07:49 <RST38h> As to old z80 cpus, the highest was Z80H, 8MHz
Aug 05 21:08:01 <Hrw|n810> and z380 which is 32bit
Aug 05 21:08:12 <Hrw|n810> zilog ones, yes
Aug 05 21:08:34 <RST38h> also clones
Aug 05 21:08:35 <liri> qos: a repository missing? uhmm, what could it be? I have both diablo and chinook extras and the official nokia repos (2 of them)
Aug 05 21:09:57 <RST38h> ZiLOG's fully pipelined Z80 compatible eZ80 with an 8/16/24-bit word length and a linear 16 MB address space was introduced in 2001.
Aug 05 21:11:02 <RST38h> http://www.zilog.com/products/family.asp?fam=218 <-- up to 50MHz
Aug 05 21:11:07 <pupnik> wow
Aug 05 21:11:34 <RST38h> they should really sell it as Verilog specification, like ARm does...
Aug 05 21:11:43 <nomis> lcuk: ok, conclusion of the string representation for now: "v4l2src ! video/x-raw-rgb,width=320,height=240,framerate=15/1 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! tee name=csp  csp. ! queue ! xvimagesink name=xvsink  csp. ! queue ! ffmpegcolorspace ! video/x-raw-rgb,width=320,height=240,bpp=24,depth=24,framerate=15/1 ! fakesink name=imagesink signal-handoffs=true"
Aug 05 21:12:00 <RST38h> nobody is interested in standalone Z80 CPU nowadays but it is nice to have inside a SoC
Aug 05 21:12:23 <liri> I'm getting an apt-get error when trying to install a new pacakge - http://pastebin.ca/1093157 - I'm after a diablo reflash so maybe it concerns that...
Aug 05 21:12:34 <Hrw|n810> RST38h: ok. i am more familiar with mos 6502 family then z80.
Aug 05 21:12:47 <liri> sorry about that, pidgin's right-click menu isn't very friendly
Aug 05 21:12:50 <Hrw|n810> but I was able to cpde in asm of both
Aug 05 21:13:04 <liri> RST38h: could you look at that pastebin error?
Aug 05 21:13:19 <lbt> lcuk: feature request
Aug 05 21:13:42 <lcuk> you mean asise from image scaling and blitting?
Aug 05 21:13:50 <lbt> yep :)
Aug 05 21:13:55 <RST38h> liri: It is suggestion that you do apt-get install -f
Aug 05 21:13:59 <RST38h> suggesting
Aug 05 21:14:04 <RST38h> liri: have you done that?
Aug 05 21:14:04 <lbt> you know your physics view...
Aug 05 21:14:07 <lcuk> yes
Aug 05 21:14:24 <lbt> Tag cloud widget
Aug 05 21:14:26 <liri> RST38h: no because I know how bad that can turn out :)
Aug 05 21:14:35 <liri> RST38h: I'm just no familiar with those packages it's offering
Aug 05 21:14:43 <RST38h> hrw: I only met with 6502 when emulating NES
Aug 05 21:14:47 <lbt> make sense?
Aug 05 21:15:15 <lcuk> already in my head - thats how i plan to tag items without a keyboard :)
Aug 05 21:15:18 <RST38h> hrw: The only two machines I have seen it being used in before were Agat and Pravetz8, both Apple][ clones
Aug 05 21:15:35 <lbt> great
Aug 05 21:16:08 <lcuk> im currently working on the base stylable graphical widget and have done cliprect stuff :)  its all coming together nicely
Aug 05 21:16:11 <lbt> I want a tabbed view of tag clouds; each representing a group of attributes
Aug 05 21:16:48 <lcuk> ie.  a group of tags per category?  (thats how im thinking anyway)
Aug 05 21:16:54 <lbt> yes
Aug 05 21:17:05 <lbt> in my case, extensible
Aug 05 21:17:10 <lbt> both tags+tabs
Aug 05 21:17:14 <lcuk> coding, home, work, dinner
Aug 05 21:17:28 <lcuk> within each category as many tags as required
Aug 05 21:17:30 <lbt> it's for organising a video clip collection
Aug 05 21:17:35 <lbt> yep
Aug 05 21:17:46 <liri> so apt-get -f install for that dependency error?
Aug 05 21:17:46 <Hrw|n810> RST38h: i again forgot about your russian roots...
Aug 05 21:17:47 <lbt> not too many - 10-15
Aug 05 21:17:52 <lcuk> not sure how you are gonna do vid clips
Aug 05 21:17:59 <lbt> just for UI reasons
Aug 05 21:18:19 <RST38h> hrw: Pravetz was Bulgarian
Aug 05 21:18:22 <lcuk> well i hope to have enough together that you  can feed it and prepare it how you like
Aug 05 21:18:30 <lbt> The tabbed, tag clouds act in 3 ways: input selector, output spec and overview
Aug 05 21:18:45 <lcuk> older systems ive built have a text file containing basic class definitions and stuff
Aug 05 21:18:52 <RST38h> hrw: But I had a Spectrum clone as well once, mainly used it for gaming
Aug 05 21:18:55 <lbt> it'll only fill half the screen though
Aug 05 21:19:04 <lcuk> name:super{properties}{groups}{actions}
Aug 05 21:19:15 <chelli> X-Fade: are you there?
Aug 05 21:19:40 <lbt> really you need to blend it with Qt or gtkmm
Aug 05 21:19:52 <lcuk> its a shame i cant share my sketches - once i add the server we can whiteboard this and ill show you what i have already planned for
Aug 05 21:20:23 <lbt> sounds good
Aug 05 21:21:08 <lcuk> i dont know enough about each widget set to slide it in - nor even if it will do all required features - it will be useful at some point to go through with some qt guru and see whether it can be done
Aug 05 21:21:49 <lbt> you going to the summit?
Aug 05 21:21:55 <lbt> <grin>
Aug 05 21:22:23 <lcuk> yes if nokia payment for linuxtag clears in time
Aug 05 21:22:31 <lcuk> i cant book anything until i clear of the last payment
Aug 05 21:26:05 <Hrw|n810> lcuk:  kick quim
Aug 05 21:26:09 <lcuk> i have
Aug 05 21:26:13 <lcuk> multiple times
Aug 05 21:26:28 <lbt> Hmm, mass quim kicking?
Aug 05 21:26:40 <lcuk> hang on
Aug 05 21:26:43 <lcuk> tis ok
Aug 05 21:26:45 <lcuk> :D
Aug 05 21:26:54 * lbt summons his red dgragon (*again*)
Aug 05 21:26:58 <lcuk> miscommunication - sorted over the weekend
Aug 05 21:27:17 * lbt clearly has a gnome dragon
Aug 05 21:27:18 <lcuk> all done - the missus didnt tell me it was sorted whilst i was away over the weekend
Aug 05 21:27:37 * lbt dismisses petulant dragon
Aug 05 21:27:46 <msh> zap: hm. perhaps I'll try a fresh install (in vmware).
Aug 05 21:27:47 <blafasel> lcuk: Yay!
Aug 05 21:27:52 <lcuk> :D yayyyy indeed
Aug 05 21:27:54 <blafasel> So you'll come over?
Aug 05 21:27:59 <msh> had upgraded from the chinook sdk, though shouldn't matter...
Aug 05 21:28:01 <lcuk> right - ill b booking a hotel tomorrow :)
Aug 05 21:28:03 <blafasel> No excuses left?
Aug 05 21:28:14 <lcuk> never has been - i was first to apply i think
Aug 05 21:28:35 <blafasel> Heh - was kidding anyway. So it's fixed for you now?
Aug 05 21:28:38 * lcuk really enjoyed linuxtag and hopes talking about what hes passionate about will make for a better presentation
Aug 05 21:28:46 <lcuk> yes - ill be sorting everything
Aug 05 21:29:23 <blafasel> Great
Aug 05 21:30:29 <Hrw|n810> i need to get clear 'ok to go' yet
Aug 05 21:30:44 <blafasel> From?
Aug 05 21:30:51 <lcuk> HRW, WE WONT GET ANY DINNER WITHOUT YOU
Aug 05 21:30:55 <lcuk> HIS MUM
Aug 05 21:30:57 <lcuk> :O caps
Aug 05 21:31:22 <Hrw|n810> :)
Aug 05 21:31:37 <RST38h> read + sleep
Aug 05 21:32:02 <RST38h> + need to figure out why SlideRule crashes with division by zero (!) when I click on the menu bar
Aug 05 21:32:17 * lcuk is really happy 
Aug 05 21:32:35 <lcuk> im gonna vanish now
Aug 05 21:33:15 <lbt> 'night
Aug 05 21:36:58 <Hrw|n810> someone on summit will have 64bit laptop?
Aug 05 21:38:53 * lardman might have to find a laptop, not 64bit though
Aug 05 21:39:12 <lardman> night all
Aug 05 21:39:13 <blafasel> Hrw|n810: What for exactly?
Aug 05 21:39:27 <blafasel> 64bit laptop means 64bit OS?
Aug 05 21:40:15 <Hrw|n810> yes, 64bit linux
Aug 05 21:40:25 <zap> experiments show that thumb code is about 10% slower than pure 32-bit arm
Aug 05 21:40:30 <zap> so take care, people
Aug 05 21:40:36 <blafasel> Hrw|n810: What do you need it for, if I may ask?
Aug 05 21:40:39 <Hrw|n810> zap: but less space
Aug 05 21:40:45 <zap> sure less
Aug 05 21:40:52 <zap> but for zip this is an issue
Aug 05 21:41:09 <Hrw|n810> blafasel: qemu on 64bit is much faster on same machine then in 32bit
Aug 05 21:41:32 <blafasel> Hrw|n810: So? You want a 64bit buildmachine in Berlin?
Aug 05 21:41:35 <zap> its faster on machines with hardware virtualisation
Aug 05 21:41:43 <Hrw|n810> zap: use vfp then
Aug 05 21:41:49 <zap> hrw|gone: in zip? :)
Aug 05 21:41:59 <Hrw|n810> blafasel: no buildmachine but presentation machine
Aug 05 21:42:08 <t_s_o> hmm, i wonder if there would be a easier way to do mark text for copy then the current double-tap and drag way. it seems i can never trigger it when i want to but always when i dont want to...
Aug 05 21:42:17 <zap> the really fast qemu is qemu-kvm
Aug 05 21:42:20 <Hrw|n810> blafasel: my llaptop is 32BIT pentium-m
Aug 05 21:42:30 <Hrw|n810> zap: not for arm emulation
Aug 05 21:42:47 <zap> for arm emulation it doesn't depend if its a new or old or 64-bit CPU
Aug 05 21:43:11 <zap> the only thing that matters is raw speed
Aug 05 21:43:59 <Hrw|n810> 64BIT means nicer registers... thats what I got from one of qemu devels
Aug 05 21:44:20 <blafasel> Hrw|n810: Stupid idea: Ask housetier or someone from those peoples in Berlin.
Aug 05 21:44:22 <Hrw|n810> and thats gives speedup
Aug 05 21:44:35 <blafasel> I'm sure they have some good machines
Aug 05 21:44:44 <Hrw|n810> blafasel: will do later
Aug 05 21:45:24 <blafasel> I can only offer a resonable fast desktop, no laptop
Aug 05 21:45:49 <zap> yes, registers will help indeed
Aug 05 21:46:15 <zap> x86_64 has 16 64-bit registers while x86 has just 8
Aug 05 21:46:19 <Hrw|n810> see you tomorrow guys
Aug 05 21:48:02 <liri> all applications are installed into internal flash memory (256). what do I do when that runs out of space? is it even possible to install them on the 2gb flash (n810)?
Aug 05 21:49:34 <jott> liri: i use the 2gb as my root partition.
Aug 05 21:52:33 <liri> jott: where do I set that?
Aug 05 21:53:08 <terbo> liri: google nokia mmc root
Aug 05 21:53:39 <lbt> did you mean https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card
Aug 05 21:54:33 <liri> thanks
Aug 05 22:12:51 <terbo> theres a few ways to do it, but soon its pretty simple and you can even script it / use it for backups
Aug 05 22:30:52 <pupnik> new dosbox for ARM perf gain.. 2-4% today
Aug 05 22:38:28 <Macer> ugh
Aug 05 22:38:40 <Macer> i'm trying to find a player that supports whatever the hell this n800 is using for audio
Aug 05 22:38:50 <Macer> it seems like alsa but i can't seem to get mplayer to play audio in debian
Aug 05 22:44:08 <danilocesar> lcuk: ping
Aug 05 22:45:29 <terbo> recorded with videorecorder?
Aug 05 22:48:11 <lcuk> pong who r u?
Aug 05 22:50:46 <pupnik> Macer: mplayer -ao help
Aug 05 22:51:37 <Macer> pupnik i already did that
Aug 05 22:51:43 <Macer> Simple mixer control 'PCM',0
Aug 05 22:51:43 <Macer>   Capabilities: pvolume pswitch cswitch cswitch-joined
Aug 05 22:51:43 <Macer>   Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Aug 05 22:52:02 <Macer> amixer detects the pcm channel. don't know exactly what /dev it is making for it though
Aug 05 22:52:38 <Macer> i've tried to install alsa-oss in order to get the oss modules in there which are usually picked up without problem.. but it is not creating a /dev/dsp
Aug 05 22:52:54 <Macer> i figure it is a problem with my alsa.conf but i can't figure it out
Aug 05 22:53:27 <pupnik> you're talking about your PC, yes?
Aug 05 22:54:01 <pupnik> must sleep
Aug 05 22:54:12 <jott> lcuk: he is one of the qedje guys. i pointed them in your direction regarding xv based rendering :)
Aug 05 22:54:28 <lcuk> i just mailed him jott, thanks
Aug 05 22:54:31 <Macer> no
Aug 05 22:54:32 <lcuk> involved in mm
Aug 05 22:54:35 <Macer> my n800
Aug 05 22:54:36 <lcuk> isnt he?
Aug 05 22:55:03 <jott> mm?
Aug 05 22:55:23 <lcuk> mapper
Aug 05 22:55:26 <Macer> alsa is easy to set up on a pc ;) heh
Aug 05 22:56:22 <jott> ah, dunno about that. but i think he is involved in qedje and canola :)
Aug 05 22:56:31 <Macer> i'm doing it in debian not hildon
Aug 05 22:56:51 <Macer> blah.. screw it. i'll fix the sound later.. i'll work on the bt for now
Aug 05 22:57:23 <Luria> gah.... jsut got a cobalt qube off ebay, didnt realize it didnt come with a power supply cable
Aug 05 22:58:06 <lcuk> jott, ahhh the top posts for his nick and maemo came up with mapper related things, i mailed him anyway
Aug 05 23:02:29 <elekt> also?
Aug 05 23:02:34 <elekt> music making software?
Aug 05 23:02:38 <elekt> alsa*
Aug 05 23:02:48 <elekt> or playback?
Aug 05 23:06:28 <MoRpHeUz> jott: actually danilocesar is not directly (but indirectly) involved with qedje =)
Aug 05 23:06:32 <MoRpHeUz> must go now...
Aug 05 23:06:35 <MoRpHeUz> see you
Aug 05 23:06:35 <jott> :)
Aug 05 23:06:37 <jott> good to know ;)
Aug 05 23:06:49 <jott> but canola? ;)
Aug 05 23:07:04 <MoRpHeUz> jott: no...neither canola hehe =)
Aug 05 23:07:10 <jott> ok :)
Aug 05 23:07:15 <MoRpHeUz> let's say he want's to use qedje on his software =)
Aug 05 23:07:16 <jott> but he has openbossa ip :P
Aug 05 23:07:23 <MoRpHeUz> jott: yes hehe
Aug 05 23:07:24 <MoRpHeUz> =)
Aug 05 23:07:52 <MoRpHeUz> jott: I think that danilocesar confused lcuk with luck (that is a guy from openbossa)
Aug 05 23:07:58 <jott> ah
Aug 05 23:08:01 <MoRpHeUz> ;-)
Aug 05 23:08:35 <MoRpHeUz> lcuk, jott: danilocesar contributed some time ago to maemo mapper....
Aug 05 23:08:57 <lcuk> hence the google results
Aug 05 23:09:07 <MoRpHeUz> lcuk: please, forward this email to me also...
Aug 05 23:09:19 <lcuk> err
Aug 05 23:09:26 <jott> google makes average joe to a stalker :)
Aug 05 23:09:33 <MoRpHeUz> lcuk: (if it's about qedje)
Aug 05 23:10:03 <lcuk> ummm  it essentially said "pong"
Aug 05 23:10:55 <lcuk> MoRpHeUz, i notice its c++
Aug 05 23:11:13 <MoRpHeUz> lcuk: ow, ok then.....
Aug 05 23:11:16 <MoRpHeUz> lcuk: yes, it's c++
Aug 05 23:11:23 <lcuk> shame (at least for now)
Aug 05 23:11:33 <MoRpHeUz> lcuk: hehehe =)
Aug 05 23:11:57 <lcuk> im just at the point of requiring exactly what qedje seems to advertise (in a very brief look anyway)
Aug 05 23:12:11 <MoRpHeUz> lcuk: so, try qedje ;-)
Aug 05 23:12:29 <jott> better, make your xv renderer work with qedje :)
Aug 05 23:12:36 <lcuk> qedje will not render fast enough
Aug 05 23:12:39 <MoRpHeUz> some more "real examples" should be on plasma, by the end of akademy
Aug 05 23:13:07 <MoRpHeUz> lcuk: hhmm...probably not _right_ now....but look what we did with evas+edje ;-)
Aug 05 23:13:10 <lcuk> how ingrained is rgb into it?
Aug 05 23:13:32 <lcuk> MoRpHeUz, have you seen my software?
Aug 05 23:13:35 <jott> lcuk: not very deep as far as i can tell.
Aug 05 23:13:58 <MoRpHeUz> lcuk: I saw it sometime ago (not the code) and jott talked about it with us today
Aug 05 23:14:09 <MoRpHeUz> jott: =)
Aug 05 23:15:09 <lcuk> what do i need to get it on my tablet?
Aug 05 23:15:11 <jott> it does not look that hard to change the actual rendering core :)
Aug 05 23:15:19 <jott> lcuk: qt :)
Aug 05 23:15:53 <lcuk> jott, ? i thought qt renderers were something completely different
Aug 05 23:16:04 <lcuk> does qegje sit ontop of qt and manage qt widgets?
Aug 05 23:16:11 <lcuk> -typo
Aug 05 23:16:15 <jott> lcuk: qedje is a qt widget
Aug 05 23:16:29 <lcuk> does it need to be?
Aug 05 23:16:39 <jott> yes, that's the whole point of it ;)
Aug 05 23:16:51 <MoRpHeUz> =)
Aug 05 23:16:52 <jott> though i would say it is not necessary to render using qt QPainter.
Aug 05 23:17:00 <MoRpHeUz> jott: perfect
Aug 05 23:17:38 <MoRpHeUz> jott: I would say that you almost know more about qedje than me =P
Aug 05 23:17:41 <MoRpHeUz> haha
Aug 05 23:18:00 <lcuk> im confused, so this isnt e17 edje, its a specific single qt port?
Aug 05 23:18:16 <jott> lcuk: edje is just a interface defintion.
Aug 05 23:18:30 <jott> e17 renders edje through eva
Aug 05 23:18:47 <MoRpHeUz> one important point is that there is libedje
Aug 05 23:18:55 <MoRpHeUz> for e17
Aug 05 23:19:05 <MoRpHeUz> that renders edje files on top of evas
Aug 05 23:19:09 <MoRpHeUz> (canvas)
Aug 05 23:19:57 <MoRpHeUz> now port this to qt world and change evas for "whatever canvas you want to use here"
Aug 05 23:20:00 <lcuk> (so if i got it straight) and now a new port to qt has come along
Aug 05 23:20:19 <jott> lcuk: right. to use edje interface within the qt framework.
Aug 05 23:20:22 <MoRpHeUz> exactly...it can use a qtpainter based canvas, qgraphicsview, etc..
Aug 05 23:20:56 <jott> and for now it renders everything trough QPainter, which is not optimal.
Aug 05 23:21:46 <lcuk> but with qt you cannot get to the metal can you?  multiple layers of rendering and abstraction away from the core
Aug 05 23:22:17 <jott> lcuk: you can (loosing platform independence) get access to X11 windows.
Aug 05 23:22:29 <jott> hence you can create a xv window and put that in a qt widget
Aug 05 23:22:35 <lcuk> what about xv overlays :)
Aug 05 23:22:39 <lcuk> good
Aug 05 23:22:40 <jott> there you have your viewport
Aug 05 23:23:20 <MoRpHeUz> =)
Aug 05 23:23:56 <jott> lcuk: using http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qx11embedcontainer.html was my initial idea.
Aug 05 23:24:01 <lcuk> wouldnt you be better ripping out the grounding from qt and replace it with something *all* widgets would gain from
Aug 05 23:24:21 <lcuk> or is this closest to instant gratification
Aug 05 23:25:05 <jott> lcuk: i think the whole point is having it in Qt (like qt signals and slots and more or less api consistency etc)
Aug 05 23:25:36 <jott> and tbh, the actual rendering part is not that extensive :)
Aug 05 23:26:16 <jott> it's more about handling animations and events, etc. and there you can easily add some abstraction layer without really loosing performance.
Aug 05 23:26:31 <lcuk> agreed on that part
Aug 05 23:28:26 <lcuk> so edje itself doesnt need qt, it could just as easily have been in gtk or native x11 or something
Aug 05 23:28:44 <Trencher|> hello everyone
Aug 05 23:29:00 <Trencher|> i have a question about the perl install in maemo
Aug 05 23:29:19 <MoRpHeUz> lcuk: edje just needs a canvas where it can paint everything...
Aug 05 23:30:04 <jott> ... and most of the time it's just an instruction like "paint this transformed pixmap here"
Aug 05 23:30:15 <MoRpHeUz> lcuk: for canola2 we choose evas because of it's performance (much better than any other canvas available right now)  and edje was already written for it =)
Aug 05 23:30:57 <jott> and if we have an xv based edje canvas, this would be even faster :)
Aug 05 23:31:00 <Trencher|> i am trying to compile a program with perl support in the armel target, but it keeps linking to the i686 perl
Aug 05 23:31:03 <MoRpHeUz> (of course we did the 16bit engine for evas, but it was already fast)
Aug 05 23:31:36 <lcuk> nice indeed :)
Aug 05 23:32:02 <MoRpHeUz> jott: yeah, but it would be hell to implement the whole canvas (rectangle's merge algorithms, etc...)
Aug 05 23:33:11 <jott> MoRpHeUz: that's why you could use that part from qt and handle the blitting via xv :)
Aug 05 23:33:28 <MoRpHeUz> jott: ;-)
Aug 05 23:33:32 <lcuk> but qt doesnt work in yuv/
Aug 05 23:33:43 <jott> lcuk: that's all an abstraction above :)
Aug 05 23:34:00 <jott> only plain blitting (and some basic drawing) has to be done in yuv :)
Aug 05 23:34:02 <lcuk> yes, but that level of abstraction involves an rgb->yuv conversion
Aug 05 23:34:12 <jott> no
Aug 05 23:34:15 <jott> not really
Aug 05 23:34:17 <lcuk> which is why i want the IVA opening
Aug 05 23:34:29 <jott> you have an xv viewport in a qt widget.
Aug 05 23:34:50 <lcuk> once that happens we rock: its essentially free to work in RGB and get the IVA doing the heavy lifting on every frame
Aug 05 23:34:58 <jott> let qt (in that case) handle all the intersection/moving/foo stuff.
Aug 05 23:35:18 <jott> then you come to a point where you have to blit a subrect to antoher subrect.
Aug 05 23:35:27 <jott> there you use xv/yuv
Aug 05 23:36:19 <lcuk> ok, i think theres a slight overlap(heh) here.  "merging algorithms"  color merge or simple geometrics?
Aug 05 23:37:19 <jott> simple geometrics i would say.
Aug 05 23:37:40 <jott> and of course different blending functions.
Aug 05 23:37:47 <lcuk> cos the geometrics is schoolyard stuff and should be inside the core library anyway - YUV color transformations and functions are a lot more indepth
Aug 05 23:38:34 <lcuk> if an animation library has to use someone elses code to manage locations it sounds wrong - it should be dealing with keyframes and tweening and stuff and this sort of thing should be second nature
Aug 05 23:40:09 <lcuk> alpha blending and aliasing and font weighing is what the canvas handles
Aug 05 23:40:13 <jott> lcuk: if you re-implement stuff that is already usable in a framework that sounds wrong :)
Aug 05 23:40:24 <ryoohki> is there any maemo activity at linux world expo? has the n810 wimax edition come out yet?
Aug 05 23:40:26 <jott> yep.
Aug 05 23:40:35 <jott> @lcuk :)
Aug 05 23:41:29 <lcuk> jott, im building from the ground up because thats what i think i need to get the speed.  its working for me, im havin a great time and finally putting onto a page what i have wanted to do for years
Aug 05 23:41:48 <lcuk> its like books, theres many authors writing about similar topics
Aug 05 23:42:04 <jott> lcuk: sure. if you have fun that's great.
Aug 05 23:43:39 <Trencher|> can anyone help me? please?
Aug 05 23:43:58 <lcuk> i need to discuss with people however how to make use of this to improve lots of things, i want it underneath qt and (ideally) x11 itself so everything speeds up
Aug 05 23:50:13 <Trencher|> should i be asking this elsewhere?
Aug 05 23:52:29 <nomis> Trencher|: you did not yet ask anything?
Aug 05 23:52:48 <nomis> ah sorry.
Aug 05 23:52:54 <nomis> did not scroll back enough.
Aug 05 23:53:14 <nomis> (and I unfortunately have no clue about perl=
Aug 05 23:53:29 <Mercury> lcuk: To do something like that 'under' X11 would basicly mean doing it in the X11 video driver.
Aug 05 23:53:48 <lcuk> Mercury, yes
Aug 05 23:54:01 <jott> Trencher|: there is an env var to set so that the arm perl is used. (can't remember it's name)
Aug 05 23:54:23 <Mercury> lcuk: That's probably the best target, since that really does give a universal speedup if the approach works.
Aug 05 23:54:38 <lcuk> Mercury, have you seen liqbase?
Aug 05 23:54:43 <Mercury> No.
Aug 05 23:54:47 <lcuk> then do :)
Aug 05 23:55:30 <Trencher|> :( sadly, all the docs for the scratchbox env are missing on maemo.org
Aug 05 23:55:41 <Trencher|> i tried to rtfm ;)
Aug 05 23:55:45 <lcuk> theres a youtube vid
Aug 05 23:57:00 <Macer> wtf
Aug 05 23:57:03 <Macer> my n800 crashed
Aug 05 23:57:09 <Trencher|> :(
Aug 05 23:57:19 <Macer> and when i had to yank the battery.. and put it bakc.. the screen is flickering like a tv with no reception
Aug 05 23:57:31 <Trencher|> !!
Aug 05 23:57:32 <lcuk> Trencher|, whats up with you?
Aug 05 23:57:35 <Trencher|> that can't be good
Aug 05 23:57:50 <Trencher|> i am attempting to build something for my nokia tablet using scratchbox
Aug 05 23:57:50 <lcuk> Macer, ooooer
Aug 05 23:58:07 <Macer> wow.. that was extremely odd
Aug 05 23:58:21 <lcuk> "something" as in helloworld, or have you confirmed all that works?
Aug 05 23:58:29 <Macer> all i want to do is get this damn bt connection going in nit-debian
Aug 05 23:58:33 <Trencher|> something as in irssi
Aug 05 23:58:36 <Mercury> lcuk: The overview?  Just watched it, quite interesting.
Aug 05 23:58:36 <Macer> and every time i'm close.. someething breaks haha
Aug 05 23:58:36 <Trencher|> and i have built it
Aug 05 23:58:45 <Trencher|> and it works on the target and the tablet
Aug 05 23:58:54 <Trencher|> but i want to build it with perl support
Aug 05 23:58:56 <Mercury> lcuk: Not an interface that I'd use much, though, the ability to underclock the unit at will is something that I would find exceedingly handy.
Aug 05 23:59:16 <Trencher|> but libperl-dev is not present on device or scratchbox. also not available as a deb
Aug 05 23:59:20 <lcuk> Mercury, yes - it uses an alternative graphics mode which is better suited to fast graphics (mainly because its onee the hardware can push to the lcd controller in time)
Aug 05 23:59:21 <Trencher|> so i built perl
Aug 05 23:59:28 <Trencher|> but
Aug 05 23:59:42 <Trencher|> irssi is trying to link to the i686 perl
Aug 05 23:59:48 <Trencher|> instead of the armel one
Aug 05 23:59:59 <lcuk> whats actually drawn there isnt important to some eyes - its the fact its fast and tearfree and scalable
Aug 06 00:00:42 <Trencher|> when i run configure
Aug 06 00:01:08 <Trencher|> as in: Perl library directory ........... : (site default - /scratchbox/tools/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi)
Aug 06 00:01:12 <Mercury> lcuk: Is that bypassing X right now, or?
Aug 06 00:01:39 <lcuk> its using xv, so yes but no because its a standard interface
Aug 06 00:01:40 <Mercury> lcuk: Or are you just dropping X into a lower resolution mode and scaling up?
Aug 06 00:02:33 <lcuk> xv is the video overlay portion.  it uses YUV color mode and has a selectable arbitary resolution that is scaled up to full screen by the hardware
Aug 06 00:03:32 <lcuk> Trencher|, i dunno, it sounds odd that you have to build perl before one normal app
Aug 06 00:03:35 <Mercury> Ahh, interesting trick.
Aug 06 00:03:45 <jott> basically it's about dropping colors (16/24 bit down to 12 bit) to gain performance :)
Aug 06 00:04:11 <Trencher|> i had to build perl to get libperl-dev
Aug 06 00:04:12 <lcuk> i get full 24 bit color tyvm jott :P i drop color resolution (like a jpeg image)
Aug 06 00:04:16 <Trencher|> but that's not the point
Aug 06 00:04:30 <Trencher|> the point is that when i build irssi it points to the wrong perl
Aug 06 00:04:43 <Trencher|> someone said there's a env var
Aug 06 00:04:48 <Trencher|> but i don't know it
Aug 06 00:04:54 <Mercury> Trencher|: If you built perl only for i686, then you only have an i686 libperl-dev, so of _course_ that's what it will link to.
Aug 06 00:05:06 <Mercury> Trencher|: If you built perl for armel, then that's a different story, but.
Aug 06 00:05:44 <Mercury> lcuk: I'm not sure how well that would scale for all of X, but I like the general idea for some applications.
Aug 06 00:05:51 <Trencher|> i built perl for armel
Aug 06 00:06:01 <Trencher|> for the libperl-dev package
Aug 06 00:06:02 * Mercury nods.
Aug 06 00:06:03 <Trencher|> which i got
Aug 06 00:06:19 <Trencher|> now i need to get irssi to compile with the armel perl
Aug 06 00:06:41 <Trencher|> which it didn't do whether i built perl or not
Aug 06 00:06:53 <Trencher|> in scratchbox, a fresh install
Aug 06 00:07:01 <Trencher|> perl -v returns a i686 build
Aug 06 00:07:10 <Trencher|> a fresh maemo install that is
Aug 06 00:10:51 <Trencher|> which doesn't seem right
Aug 06 00:11:16 <lcuk> are you in scratchbox
Aug 06 00:13:06 <jott> Trencher|: /scratchbox/doc/variables.txt => SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE
Aug 06 00:15:19 <brontide> anyone know why noatime is not set by default on /media/mmc[12] mount points?
Aug 06 00:16:02 <Mercury> brontide: It may be the default for vfat.
Aug 06 00:16:13 <jott> brontide: because that would increase level wearing ALOT :)
Aug 06 00:16:21 <jott> oh NOT set?
Aug 06 00:16:24 <brontide> yeah
Aug 06 00:16:34 * jott scratches his head
Aug 06 00:17:57 <jott> atleast the internal flash is set to noatime when booting from it with the default nokia initfs :)
Aug 06 00:18:21 <brontide> this whole though process started when I installed the highspeed kernel only to find out that media player was stuttering on occasion, that can be fixed by renice 0 `pidof mmsqd`, but then I was thinking... I'm only reading.... why should the mmcqd be active.  That's when I set the noatime and nodiratime on /media/mmc[12] and it got much faster
Aug 06 00:18:44 <brontide> subjectivly at least.  Fast enough that reading was now no longer stable
Aug 06 00:18:55 <Macer> anybody here know what exactly maemo uses to tether the bt?
Aug 06 00:19:05 <brontide> Macer: DUN prifile
Aug 06 00:19:08 <brontide> profile even
Aug 06 00:19:14 <Macer> yeah but i mean how it does it exactly
Aug 06 00:19:30 <Macer> does it use a bnep module?
Aug 06 00:19:40 <Macer> or does it do it by some other means?
Aug 06 00:19:41 <jott> brontide: sounds broken either way. noatime should really be set for any flash device when not *really* needed.
Aug 06 00:20:24 <brontide> yeah... I went back to the stock kernel with noatime and nodirtime set and it still seems peppier ( /usr/sbin/mmc-mount script edit )
Aug 06 00:20:30 <Macer> i am trying to connect to att 3G in nit-debian and  so far anything i've found requires a bnep connection
Aug 06 00:22:29 <brontide> jott: Really I was making sure I wasn't missing something before I filed a bug report.  Just like laptop systems all mount points should be noatime, nodiratime unless it's a necessity because of the IO penalty
Aug 06 00:24:10 <Trencher|> SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=perl did not work
Aug 06 00:28:09 <jott> Trencher|: also check $PATH :P (or call directly /usr/bin/perl)
Aug 06 00:34:32 <Trencher|> still nothing..
Aug 06 00:34:38 <Trencher|> will be back later to try more
Aug 06 00:37:47 <brontide> anyone got 1 minute to confirm this bug?  All you need is a terminal prompt and an umolested system ( no crazy mods like me )
Aug 06 00:38:35 <jott> are there unmolested systems? :O
Aug 06 00:38:47 <brontide> :-P
Aug 06 00:39:13 <brontide> It's ok to love you NIT, just not LOVE you NIT
Aug 06 00:39:58 <brontide> ok... anyone who hasn't messed with their mount points?  http://pastebin.com/m520f3f6e
Aug 06 00:40:26 <brontide> grr... replace prefs.js with stat_me
Aug 06 00:40:39 * brontide shoots secratary
Aug 06 00:50:39 <jott> brontide: changes here at least.
Aug 06 00:51:00 <rm_you> n800 is apparently also handy as a recorder :P
Aug 06 00:51:19 <brontide> Thanks, that's what I though... I'll open a bug report.  It's a 5 second fix to /usr/sbin/mmc-mount
Aug 06 00:51:19 <rm_you> been recording D&D sessions by sitting it in the middle of the table and hitting record on maemo-recorder
Aug 06 00:51:20 <jott> (i boot from internal 2gb card but i have a mmc mounted as vfat)
Aug 06 00:51:48 <rm_you> works very well (though I have to boost the gain in Audacity later to hear anything, but it is still very good quality surprisingly)
Aug 06 00:51:51 <jott> brontide: 5 second fix + 2 month discussion and regression testing ;)
Aug 06 00:52:23 <jott> s/2 month/14 month/
Aug 06 00:52:23 <infobot> jott meant: brontide: 5 second fix + 14 month discussion and regression testing ;)
Aug 06 00:53:02 <brontide> So I should expect offical support about the time browserd get upgraded
Aug 06 00:58:25 <Macer> yeah. i give up on nit-debian
Aug 06 00:58:37 <Macer> it is too difficult to fix the sound and to bt tether
Aug 06 00:58:47 * Macer is going to swap back to kde
Aug 06 00:59:08 <johnx> rm_you, well you'd hope that Nokia would know how to make a decent mic given how many phones they make...
Aug 06 00:59:10 <Macer> i wonder how hard it would be to make my own kde install without all the stuff pb has in his... it's way too large and filled with a lot of things i'd probably never use
Aug 06 00:59:33 <rm_you> johnx: true
Aug 06 00:59:47 <rm_you> johnx: what is the state of a2dp in debian? (NIT)
Aug 06 01:00:14 <Macer> johnx - nit debian doesn't have a dnep module?
Aug 06 01:00:27 <Macer> what would you use to connect to 3G?
Aug 06 01:00:28 <johnx> dnep?
Aug 06 01:00:41 <johnx> a2dp support is the same as in any other debian install
Aug 06 01:00:48 <rm_you> "Portable Document Format" is currently seeming annoyingly unportable
Aug 06 01:01:15 <johnx> rm_you, how so?
Aug 06 01:01:38 <rm_you> eh, having to jump through a ton of hoops to get it to become a jpg :P
Aug 06 01:01:55 <rm_you> not too bad tho since i can just turn it to postscript
Aug 06 01:01:56 <Macer> johnx - i don't understand what you would do in debian in order to connect to a 3G network with bluez ... i figured once you pair you could just use dhclient and run it through dnep0
Aug 06 01:02:10 <Macer> but there's no module for it in nit-debian :)
Aug 06 01:02:28 <Macer> what does maemo use for the bt 3G stuff?
Aug 06 01:02:46 <johnx> Macer, by default it uses dun I believe
Aug 06 01:03:27 <johnx> Sorry, but the only wireless hookup my phone supports is IR, so I really have no idea about this kind of stuff ;)
Aug 06 01:03:33 <Macer> heh
Aug 06 01:03:48 <Macer> well.. it uses the dun profile for the bt connection.. but what tools does it use in order to actually establish the connection
Aug 06 01:04:03 <Macer> ah.... ok then :) well... then do you know what you have to do for oss support in nit-debian ?
Aug 06 01:04:04 <johnx> aaah
Aug 06 01:04:06 <Macer> heh
Aug 06 01:04:24 <johnx> oss sound support?
Aug 06 01:04:27 <Macer> so that mplayer will play audio.. it doesn't seem to be able to detect the alsa stuff
Aug 06 01:04:31 <Macer> yeah
Aug 06 01:04:35 <Macer> alsamixer sees all the channels
Aug 06 01:05:06 <Macer> i have a pcm0... but for some reason mplayer and any other audio app i have tried doesn't seem to want to work
Aug 06 01:05:29 <Macer> i've been searching for hours for these 2 problems.. if i could get all the hardware working like it should then nit-debian would be great ;)
Aug 06 01:05:38 <johnx> Macer, Stskeeps has been doing most of the nit-debian stuff. I've been so busy I don't even have a booting nit-debian install right now
Aug 06 01:06:12 <Macer> ah... i see.. he's been concentrating on his installer.. which works perfect with lenny instead of sid
Aug 06 01:06:25 <Macer> sid is picky
Aug 06 01:06:46 <johnx> yeah, he's doing a lot of incredible work :)
Aug 06 01:06:59 <Macer> but the hardware ;)
Aug 06 01:07:13 <Macer> i wish i knew how to code so i could make something for him
Aug 06 01:07:22 <Macer> that would allow easy tethering / 3G connections
Aug 06 01:07:41 <Macer> because right now i was happy that i was able to pair... after that i don't know exactly which route i should take for it
Aug 06 01:07:53 <Macer> i suppose for the time being i could get a usb cable and use acm for it
Aug 06 01:07:58 <johnx> what I did with beta3 was just copy the packages for the dsp tasks, the gstreamer stuff related to dsp audio and some alsa libs
Aug 06 01:08:05 <Macer> but i don't think there's an acm module eitehr :)
Aug 06 01:08:24 <Macer> i was trying to do that
Aug 06 01:08:31 <johnx> it was somewhat tricky
Aug 06 01:08:33 <Macer> didn't seem to work so well :)
Aug 06 01:08:44 <Macer> yeah.. i figured as much.. i was trying to rip stuff off the maemo partition
Aug 06 01:08:45 <johnx> something about the dsp tasks wanting to be started early in the boot sequence I think
Aug 06 01:09:12 <Macer> i wish alsa would just detect it and use oss emulation for it :) can't go wrong with /dev/dsp
Aug 06 01:09:48 <Macer> ah well.. i guess i'll go back to the kde route i was taking earlier
Aug 06 01:10:16 <Macer> i wonder if pb could make a bare kde install and just the debian mirrors to download armel bins/libs
Aug 06 01:10:18 <rm_you> lcuk: ok got it
Aug 06 01:10:38 <Macer> i don't see why something like that wouldn't work :)
Aug 06 01:11:14 <Macer> use like the kde package manager for everything... maybe i'll see about doing something like that when i get the chance
Aug 06 01:13:43 <johnx> Macer, debian != maemo
Aug 06 01:13:58 <johnx> different lib versions, different config locations, different package names
Aug 06 01:14:23 <johnx> as for sound the "DSP tasks" aren't really related to the OSS /dev/dsp
Aug 06 01:27:46 <Macer> johnx - i see hm
Aug 06 01:28:09 <Macer> well.. i'll figure something out.. tnx
Aug 06 01:28:16 <johnx> good luck :)
Aug 06 01:30:01 <Macer> hm.. kde looks like the best route... so i'm guessing you would have to build all the apps in scratchbox for maemo?
Aug 06 01:30:46 <johnx> you could try just unpacking .debs from debian for armel
Aug 06 01:31:06 <johnx> the biggest problem is different package naming conventions I think
Aug 06 01:31:35 <Macer> i would bet the best way to do it is how pb has kde starting from hildon with all maemo's services running with full sound support
Aug 06 01:31:36 <johnx> so if you just satisfy deps yourself and put the files in place it'll likely work, at least for smaller CLI programs
Aug 06 01:31:50 <Macer> if i could get it bare.. i can set up my own repository and work on building apps for it
Aug 06 01:32:03 <Macer> that could be installed from hildon or from apt-get itself
Aug 06 01:32:22 <brontide> jott: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3543
Aug 06 01:32:44 <Macer> the only thing that drove me up the wall about pb's kde install was kopete didn't have ssl support because i don't think he was able to build the qt qcatls plugin
Aug 06 01:33:14 <Macer> either that or the one for kopete in order to get on gtalk :) ... plus he had kopete and svirc on it.... i know these are things that are probably easy to get rid of but .... :)
Aug 06 01:33:21 <Macer> ok.. i gotta go.. i'll look into it when i get home again
Aug 06 01:34:10 <jott> brontide: looks good to me.
Aug 06 01:34:34 <brontide> I don't think bug reports get any easier than that... complete with test script and fix
Aug 06 02:08:01 <lcuk> gnite chan
Aug 06 02:08:12 <rm_you> lcuk: noooo
Aug 06 02:08:14 <lcuk> rm_you, ill look tomorrow, sorry just seen
Aug 06 02:08:18 <rm_you> lol
Aug 06 02:08:22 <rm_you> kk
Aug 06 02:08:24 <rm_you> l8r
Aug 06 02:08:27 <lcuk> gnite
Aug 06 02:42:09 <mranostay> hello
Aug 06 02:42:31 <mranostay> quick question, why doesn't their seem to be i386 mplayer package in the extras/ repo?
Aug 06 02:42:52 <rm_you> erk
Aug 06 02:43:09 <rm_you> dunno, it may just need to pass through the autobuilder again
Aug 06 02:43:19 <rm_you> or else the maintainer marked it armel only
Aug 06 02:45:37 <mranostay> well that is annoying
Aug 06 02:50:56 <mranostay> rm_you: autobuilder? you mean scratchbox
Aug 06 02:55:11 <bef0rd> I think he indeed means autobuilder
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 06 03:00:02 2008