**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 15 02:59:56 2008
Aug 15 03:02:23 <GeneralAntilles> manyoso, relatively high
Aug 15 03:02:27 <GeneralAntilles> but not accurate at all.
Aug 15 03:02:58 <manyoso> i'm looking for exact range
Aug 15 03:03:05 <manyoso> i'm reading direct from tslib
Aug 15 03:03:14 <n800n> who stolr mt stylus danlm it
Aug 15 03:03:21 <manyoso> and the number ranges from 0 to 300+
Aug 15 03:03:29 <manyoso> and then once in awhile like 65000+
Aug 15 03:03:36 <manyoso> it is not at all clear what scale it is using
Aug 15 03:05:34 <manyoso> hmm, seems /etc/pointercal helps me here
Aug 15 03:06:22 <manyoso> now to try and understand this file
Aug 15 03:17:35 <ChuangJiang> Dear everyone.
Aug 15 03:18:24 <ChuangJiang> I'm building OpenOffice.org in the scratchbox , and I've got the following error message:
Aug 15 03:18:26 <ChuangJiang> error while loading shared libraries: libpthread.so.0: cannot enable executable stack as shared object requires: Invalid argument
Aug 15 03:18:45 <ChuangJiang> Could you give me any advice? TIA.
Aug 15 03:19:00 <moontiger> ummmmmm openoffice?? on the n810??
Aug 15 03:19:30 <GeneralAntilles> goodluckwiththat
Aug 15 03:20:04 <ChuangJiang> Yes.
Aug 15 03:20:08 <moontiger> even if you get it "working" i would imagine it wouldnt exactly be much fun to run
Aug 15 03:20:34 <moontiger> if you're lucky your battery might last long enough to get it started up
Aug 15 03:20:36 <moontiger> :)
Aug 15 03:21:51 <moontiger> besides ... doesn't it require java?
Aug 15 03:22:10 <ChuangJiang> YES.
Aug 15 03:22:26 <moontiger> and ummmm ... do we have a working java package for the n8x0?
Aug 15 03:22:51 <GeneralAntilles> Not quite
Aug 15 03:22:56 <moontiger> right
Aug 15 03:23:21 <n800n> naysayers
Aug 15 03:23:28 * moontiger laughs
Aug 15 03:23:38 <ChuangJiang> TO moontiger: ????
Aug 15 03:24:45 <moontiger> chuang ... i think you wont have much luck with oo on the n8x0 is all im saying ... why not help out with abiword instead? :)
Aug 15 03:25:07 <GeneralAntilles> Be a lot less effort to just set up a Debian chrrot.
Aug 15 03:25:15 <GeneralAntilles> s/chrrot/chroot/
Aug 15 03:25:15 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Be a lot less effort to just set up a Debian chroot.
Aug 15 03:26:00 <n800n> not that it's hard, it probably will be so slow as to be unusable
Aug 15 03:26:11 <n800n> it's what they're saying
Aug 15 03:26:15 <moontiger> n800n... thats what im getting at
Aug 15 03:26:18 <n800n> the naysayers
Aug 15 03:26:22 <moontiger> hahaha
Aug 15 03:26:31 * moontiger tuens up rammstein
Aug 15 03:28:00 <n800n> but hey i've seen some amazing things on the n800, who knows
Aug 15 03:29:18 <n800n> but probably not this time ;/
Aug 15 03:29:36 <ChuangJiang> I'll transfer our company product Redoffice to the Platform of ARM.
Aug 15 03:29:41 <GeneralAntilles> Eh, it'll work
Aug 15 03:29:44 <GeneralAntilles> It just wont be fun
Aug 15 03:29:49 <GeneralAntilles> Abiword is the way to do it
Aug 15 03:35:37 <Pavlz-00> hello
Aug 15 03:35:58 <Pavlz-00> i try to update the nokia 770
Aug 15 03:36:13 <Pavlz-00> apt-get update
Aug 15 03:36:25 <n800n> <3
Aug 15 03:36:49 <GeneralAntilles> apt-get update just refreshes the repositories
Aug 15 03:37:06 <GeneralAntilles> Anyway, upgrading via apt is NOT recommended
Aug 15 03:37:57 <Pavlz-00> but nothing happen, the kernel is 2.6.16.27-omap1
Aug 15 03:38:37 <Pavlz-00> ok, how to update with repository the kernel ?
Aug 15 03:40:00 <GeneralAntilles> You don't update the kernel.
Aug 15 03:40:32 <Pavlz-00> i want update the kernel
Aug 15 03:40:50 <GeneralAntilles> I'm happy for you, but it's not going to happen.
Aug 15 03:41:10 <GeneralAntilles> Not if you like wifi, anyway.
Aug 15 03:41:40 <Pavlz-00> yes, continue
Aug 15 03:42:21 <Pavlz-00> why not if like me wi-fi ?
Aug 15 03:42:31 <GeneralAntilles> The wifi drivers are closed
Aug 15 03:42:35 <GeneralAntilles> and built against that kernel
Aug 15 03:42:42 <GeneralAntilles> if you update the kernel you don't get to have wifi anymore.
Aug 15 03:44:12 <Pavlz-00> and to install lspci ?
Aug 15 03:44:26 <Pavlz-00> apt-get install lspci
Aug 15 03:46:10 <Pavlz-00> Reading package list... Done
Aug 15 03:47:15 <Pavlz-00> Building dependency tree... Done
Aug 15 03:48:01 <Pavlz-00> E: Couldn't find package lspci
Aug 15 03:48:43 <GeneralAntilles> There are no pci devices in the device.
Aug 15 03:49:55 <Pavlz-00> ok, and how to see the address of chipset wi-fi ? the IRQ
Aug 15 03:51:40 <Pavlz-00> for example too the producer of that chipset for wi-fi
Aug 15 03:54:31 <moontiger> GA... is the 770 frozen on that kernel?
Aug 15 03:54:39 <GeneralAntilles> If you like wifi.
Aug 15 03:54:47 <GeneralAntilles> 770 support has been dead for a while.
Aug 15 03:55:33 <moontiger> right ... thats what i thought too
Aug 15 03:55:55 <moontiger> pavlz... why do you want to upgrade the kernel?
Aug 15 03:56:32 <GeneralAntilles> Because it's old, duh. :P
Aug 15 03:57:00 <Pavlz-00> Is old
Aug 15 03:57:09 <GeneralAntilles> ^
Aug 15 03:57:11 <Proteous> if it ain't broke...
Aug 15 03:57:17 <GeneralAntilles> What'd I say?! ;)
Aug 15 03:57:33 <GeneralAntilles> Break it and get Nokia to give you a free upgrade!
Aug 15 03:57:52 <Proteous> boooo
Aug 15 03:58:10 <Proteous> don't take nokias moneys that they could be using to build new IT devices!!
Aug 15 03:58:16 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Aug 15 03:58:51 <Pavlz-00> i would to mount a 2007 or 2008 os
Aug 15 03:59:14 <Pavlz-00> if possible
Aug 15 03:59:14 <JackBeSlow> installing a later OS does not require a new kernel
Aug 15 03:59:31 <GAN800> ~flashing
Aug 15 03:59:32 <infobot> flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Aug 15 03:59:58 <Pavlz-00> all new and the kernel old ?
Aug 15 04:00:06 <JackBeSlow> yep
Aug 15 04:00:18 <JackBeSlow> follow the link :)
Aug 15 04:02:57 <GAN800> kernel is the same for all of them.
Aug 15 04:03:49 * moontiger wants to strangle the sbox environment
Aug 15 04:05:09 * moontiger wants to strangle the gdata feeds too *sigh*
Aug 15 04:10:53 <pupnik> i don't find any USB hard drives with built-in battery here
Aug 15 04:12:06 <GeneralAntilles> deal-extreme ship to you?
Aug 15 04:12:11 <GeneralAntilles> they probably have something
Aug 15 04:12:26 <GeneralAntilles> Although it might be more interesting/useful to build an inline injector.
Aug 15 04:12:59 <pupnik> true
Aug 15 04:13:09 <GeneralAntilles> Though you'll need a lot of batteries to spin up a drive
Aug 15 04:13:21 <GeneralAntilles> Hot glue 4 SDHC readers together instead? :D
Aug 15 04:14:29 <Pavlz-00> ah,  about cables, near the battery there is a port rs-232 for.which use ? And why we have not that cable?
Aug 15 04:14:43 <JackBeSlow> I saw a self powered micro hard drive at compusa a while back. At first I thought it was usb powered, but it mentioned the need to keep it charged. Might be worth a look
Aug 15 04:14:56 <JackBeSlow> I think it was something like 60gb
Aug 15 04:17:36 <pupnik> you're right.. better to make own power injector
Aug 15 04:18:19 <GeneralAntilles> Pavlz-00, there are 3 ports on the bottom, power, 3.5mm audio and USB
Aug 15 05:07:25 <andrewfblack> Hey guys
Aug 15 05:07:36 <GeneralAntilles> Howdy
Aug 15 05:21:39 <andrewfblack> Well thats enough moving stuff around for me tonight
Aug 15 05:37:55 <dougt> fwiw, fennec m6 is still busted if you launch it from the menu item.
Aug 15 05:38:04 <dougt> we should get it right for the next release.
Aug 15 05:38:14 <dougt> the docs for osso_init() are, um, wrong.
Aug 15 05:38:14 <dougt> :-)
Aug 15 05:38:37 <dougt> if you launch m6 from the shell, all is okay
Aug 15 06:24:38 <moontiger> i know its no big deal but i got my first home screen applet working just now :)
Aug 15 06:24:44 <moontiger> so im happy with myself :)
Aug 15 06:35:15 <t_s_o> congrats moontiger. hope you come up with some interesting applets given time :)
Aug 15 06:35:40 <moontiger> thank you :)
Aug 15 06:38:31 <t_s_o> no problem, given that i could not code myself out of any kind of problem (but probably into a lot of them) i should cheer on those that can ;)
Aug 15 07:06:20 <moontiger> nn all :)
Aug 15 07:51:41 <RST38h> moo all
Aug 15 07:54:05 <lbt> 'lo
Aug 15 08:13:53 <ds3> \
Aug 15 08:24:00 <GeneralAntilles> Where the hell are all these @plenware.com guys coming from?
Aug 15 08:24:24 <timely> ?
Aug 15 08:24:57 <lbt> FYI : I got my invite first thing this am - so it looks like Ed  (or someone) is covering X-Fade just fine :)
Aug 15 08:31:02 <GeneralAntilles> timely, Chinese guys all from plenware.com posting weirdness to the lists and bugzilla.
Aug 15 08:31:38 <GeneralAntilles> Like: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3535#c2
Aug 15 08:32:20 <timely> http://www.plenware.fi/en/index.shtml
Aug 15 08:32:34 <timely> http://www.plenware.fi/en/uutiset.shtml/2008?2250
Aug 15 08:33:33 <timely> English isn't an easy language if you don't actually have a chance to speak w/ native speakers...
Aug 15 08:41:36 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Aug 15 08:49:43 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, Jaffa.
Aug 15 08:52:48 <florian> good morning
Aug 15 08:58:29 <qwerty12> dannym: (if you read the logs), I commited usbmodeswitch to svn. I'm a svn noob so hopefully, I didn't boll0x anything up
Aug 15 09:07:12 * Jaffa rewrites his bitchslapping email to be slightly more constructive to some of our Aussie developers who think layer separation is something which should just apply to other people.
Aug 15 09:07:20 <Jaffa> Or, worse than that, don't seem to understand the principle at all.
Aug 15 09:07:24 <timely> ?
Aug 15 09:08:12 <Jaffa> timely: they're doing silly things like using global variables in an OO application just because they've got no imagination; so the DB layer is doing stuff with HttpSession
Aug 15 09:10:14 <timely> nice
Aug 15 09:11:27 * timely doesn't get http://bulbing.blogspot.com/2008/08/nokia-n810-internet-tablet.html
Aug 15 09:12:27 <Jaffa> timely: which bit?
Aug 15 09:13:06 <eichi_> how to update the OS on a mmc sd card?
Aug 15 09:13:22 <Jaffa> Tuesday's post was encouraging people to use the Gimp. I'm not sure it's timely (if you excuse the pun ;-))
Aug 15 09:13:48 <timely> why mention the n810 this late?
Aug 15 09:14:01 <timely> i mean, i don't mind ads, but ... what value does it add the blogosphere?
Aug 15 09:14:11 * Jaffa hopes the N900 has an accelerometer & OpenGL: was playing with Cube Racer on a colleague's iPod Touch: so simple but so much fun.
Aug 15 09:14:29 <timely> cube racer just gave me headaches
Aug 15 09:14:32 <Jaffa> timely: "value" and "blogosphere"? Really? With a straight face?
Aug 15 09:14:49 <timely> .... ok
Aug 15 09:14:56 <timely> it wasted time in my morning mailbox
Aug 15 09:15:08 <Jaffa> Ah, you've got a Google Alert or something on N810?
Aug 15 09:15:08 <timely> i had to read the google alert, read the blog entry, and try to figure out why i was there
Aug 15 09:15:15 <timely> nah, microb :)
Aug 15 09:15:30 <Jaffa> Ah :)
Aug 15 09:15:40 <eichi_> how to update the OS on a mmc sd card?
Aug 15 09:16:05 * timely gets very confused
Aug 15 09:16:21 <timely> i seem to be getting bugmail from a *random* bugzilla installation
Aug 15 09:16:35 <Jaffa> eichi_: apt-get update?
Aug 15 09:16:41 * Jaffa dunnos, don't use MMC cloned
Aug 15 09:16:50 <timely> and it's locked too!
Aug 15 09:17:48 <eichi_> Jaffa, is there a diffference to the aplications manager update?
Aug 15 09:18:09 <kaie> I'm preparing to flash my n810 to diablo. right now I'm still at 2.2007.50-2 ... I've backed up /home/user using tar/scp. I'm trying...
Aug 15 09:18:35 <kaie> to back up using the built in "backup software" in addition. that stalls as soon as I include "settings" in the list of items to be backed up
Aug 15 09:19:07 <Jaffa> eichi_: No idea, I'm afraid.
Aug 15 09:19:35 <qwerty12> IIRC backup with settings freezes when you have claws mail installed and/or a symlink to / in /home/user/
Aug 15 09:19:44 <timely> oh brother
Aug 15 09:19:49 <timely> qwerty12: is there a bug filed?
Aug 15 09:20:01 <qwerty12> timely, no idea
Aug 15 09:20:01 <timely> a symlink to / used to kill metacrawler
Aug 15 09:20:04 <kaie> ah interesting. I do have claws mail installed
Aug 15 09:20:06 <timely> please make sure one's filed
Aug 15 09:20:17 <GAN800> eichi_, just update using the Application manager. . . .
Aug 15 09:20:28 <GAN800> ~ssu
Aug 15 09:20:29 <infobot> hmm... ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU
Aug 15 09:20:31 <timely> GAN800: heh, does the Browser product not have a website component?
Aug 15 09:20:40 <timely> oh
Aug 15 09:20:45 <timely> um... that's not fair
Aug 15 09:20:47 <GAN800> timely, not that I saw.
Aug 15 09:20:56 <timely> you're actually complaining about the shipping software
Aug 15 09:21:01 <timely> but it's a service release
Aug 15 09:21:11 <timely> the agreement wrt branding is that *new* products would get new branding
Aug 15 09:21:18 <timely> diablo isn't a new product
Aug 15 09:21:27 <eichi_> GAN800, i did this, but then my sd card maemo cant boot - boot menu is removend and the updates is now on the INTERNAL flash
Aug 15 09:21:36 <GAN800> eichi_,
Aug 15 09:21:40 <GAN800> ~ssu
Aug 15 09:21:41 <infobot> i heard ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU
Aug 15 09:21:51 <timely> GAN800: you are complaining about the start page, right?
Aug 15 09:21:52 <GAN800> timely, I didn't sign anything. :P
Aug 15 09:21:55 <eichi_> ah okay
Aug 15 09:22:07 <GAN800> but that's fine, mark it INVALID if you want.
Aug 15 09:22:19 <GAN800> Right, home.htm;
Aug 15 09:22:26 <timely> GAN800: assign it to peter from marketing
Aug 15 09:22:28 <GAN800> home.html
Aug 15 09:22:47 <timely> if he doesn't have a bugzilla account, introduce yourself and explain to him that he needs one :)
Aug 15 09:23:15 <timely> nah, the bug's not really invalid
Aug 15 09:23:18 <timely> well maybe
Aug 15 09:23:27 <timely> dunno.. it should be assigned to peter
Aug 15 09:23:48 <eichi_> GAN800, url problem?
Aug 15 09:24:45 <GAN800> eichi_, hit reload
Aug 15 09:24:50 * timely still thinks 3585 is a dupe
Aug 15 09:24:52 <kaie> qwerty12, still stalls after uninstalling claws-mail*. and no symlink in /home/user
Aug 15 09:25:15 <qwerty12> kaie, Hmm, no symlink in any subfolders?
Aug 15 09:25:16 <XTL> Is w.m.o still dead?
Aug 15 09:25:34 <timely> hi kaie
Aug 15 09:25:36 <kaie> qwerty12, well, I have an .icons symlink, is that it?
Aug 15 09:25:37 <timely> kaie: strace :)
Aug 15 09:25:37 <kaie> hi timely
Aug 15 09:25:48 <qwerty12> kaie, no, that's standard
Aug 15 09:26:13 <kaie> that's the only symlink I see
Aug 15 09:26:19 <GAN800> oh hell, no bugzilla account.
Aug 15 09:26:25 <timely> kaie: apt-get install strace :)
Aug 15 09:26:29 * GAN800 adds it to his TODO
Aug 15 09:26:36 <kaie> yes
Aug 15 09:26:48 <timely> GAN800: send  him an email,.. if you time it right, it'll arrive as i visit his office after lunch :)
Aug 15 09:27:18 <GAN800> XTL, no.
Aug 15 09:27:40 * GAN800 was just about to sleep.
Aug 15 09:27:55 <XTL> Something funny here, then.
Aug 15 09:27:57 * GAN800 goes back downstairs to a real keyboard instead.
Aug 15 09:28:06 <GAN800> XTL, hit reload.
Aug 15 09:28:29 <XTL> GAN800: loads a while and gives conn refused.
Aug 15 09:28:47 <XTL> Don't need it, just noticed that a link I followed hadn't loaded.
Aug 15 09:32:25 <timely> http://developer.mozilla.org/wiki-images/en/a/ac/Moz_ffx_openStandards_800x600.jpg
Aug 15 09:32:47 <XTL> heh
Aug 15 09:32:51 <Jaffa> nice
Aug 15 09:35:23 * qwerty12 shoots that fox with a non standard pellet gun converted to use bullets
Aug 15 09:35:26 <bergie> timely: we have that on our office wall :-)
Aug 15 09:35:39 <timely> i hope it's bigger than a postage stamp :)
Aug 15 09:36:05 <Jaffa> bergie: is there a good size/vector version? Would look good in our office too
Aug 15 09:36:31 <bergie> Jaffa: no idea, the mozilla people were giving out those as posters in last FOSDEM
Aug 15 09:36:39 <Jaffa> ah, right
Aug 15 09:37:26 <bergie> Jaffa: http://intlstore.mozilla.org/product_info.php?products_id=118
Aug 15 09:38:08 <Jaffa> ta
Aug 15 09:38:20 <qwerty12> http://static.zooomr.com/images/968466_7e7441f113_o.jpg
Aug 15 09:38:43 <timely> clearance sale on http://intlstore.mozilla.org/product_info.php?products_id=52
Aug 15 09:39:31 <Jaffa> qwerty12: ta
Aug 15 09:40:08 <qwerty12> no problem
Aug 15 09:40:12 <kaie> timely, strace -f doesn't give me much. maybe the files tell you more than me
Aug 15 09:40:35 <timely> kaie: your dcc can't work... it wanted me to use 127.1
Aug 15 09:40:41 <timely> i need to head to work
Aug 15 09:40:46 <timely> try pastebin.*
Aug 15 09:40:54 <GeneralAntilles> timely, email's just about to go out.
Aug 15 09:41:23 <timely> GAN800: 3586 has a lot of data
Aug 15 09:41:27 <timely> can you find someone to parse it?
Aug 15 09:41:37 * timely will try to poke eero
Aug 15 09:41:42 <kaie> timely, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/514865
Aug 15 09:41:51 <timely> most of the listings there seem to show free memory as <10mb
Aug 15 09:42:10 <timely> oh
Aug 15 09:42:13 <timely> kaie, um...
Aug 15 09:42:16 <timely> maemo platform is evil
Aug 15 09:42:26 <timely> you'll probably need to strace maemo-launcher too
Aug 15 09:42:31 <timely> otherwise you won't get anywhere :)
Aug 15 09:42:41 <kaie> and in the working process, replace last line of that log with that from here: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/514869
Aug 15 09:42:50 <kaie> I see.......
Aug 15 09:42:58 <timely> basically most apps are dummies
Aug 15 09:43:07 <GeneralAntilles> Eero's probably the only one who can look at it without losing their mind.
Aug 15 09:43:11 <timely> they just talk to a daemon and say "fork and load foopy"
Aug 15 09:43:16 * timely nods
Aug 15 09:44:03 <kaie> is it possible that you tell me what I shall do to trace this
Aug 15 09:44:10 <kaie> or I will probably skip it and flash
Aug 15 09:44:22 <kaie> strace -F ?
Aug 15 09:44:48 <timely> -f
Aug 15 09:44:58 <kaie> -f did not help
Aug 15 09:45:03 <kaie> -f did produce what I gave
Aug 15 09:45:11 <timely> perhaps strace -f -p `pidof maemo-launcher`
Aug 15 09:45:28 * timely wonders if that works
Aug 15 09:45:33 <timely> you could do:
Aug 15 09:45:35 <timely> cd /proc
Aug 15 09:45:42 <timely> strace -f -p *
Aug 15 09:45:43 <timely> :)
Aug 15 09:45:47 <kaie> yes your pidof works
Aug 15 09:45:51 <timely> ok
Aug 15 09:45:59 <robink> You can strace a running app?
Aug 15 09:46:03 <robink> jebus
Aug 15 09:46:04 <XTL> sure
Aug 15 09:46:04 <timely> sure
Aug 15 09:46:15 <qwerty12> sure (for good measure)
Aug 15 09:46:15 <robink> I thought you had to have strace fork() and exec() the app.
Aug 15 09:46:22 <XTL> Harder to strace a non-running one :)
Aug 15 09:46:49 <XTL> But yeah, strace attached to a pid if you want
Aug 15 09:47:05 <XTL> s/attached/attaches/
Aug 15 09:47:06 <infobot> XTL meant: But yeah, strace attaches to a pid if you want
Aug 15 09:47:34 <GeneralAntilles> timely, email is sent.
Aug 15 09:47:35 <robink> Holy cow that's awesome.
Aug 15 09:48:05 <qwerty12> Any idea when kernel-source-diablo will be updated?
Aug 15 09:48:18 <timely> ask qgil ;-)
Aug 15 09:48:20 <kaie> very very slowwwwwwwww
Aug 15 09:48:26 * timely tries to run after GAN800's email
Aug 15 09:48:40 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, was the kernel actually updated?
Aug 15 09:48:46 * qwerty12 runs after qgil and pushes timely out of the way
Aug 15 09:48:48 <GeneralAntilles> Mine still shows the old build. . . .
Aug 15 09:48:53 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles: The version number was :/
Aug 15 09:48:59 <GeneralAntilles> Was it?
Aug 15 09:49:09 <qwerty12> Yeah, let me grab the number from Packages
Aug 15 09:49:37 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles: http://pastebin.com/d52a9a356
Aug 15 09:49:58 <GeneralAntilles> 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Wed Jul 16 12:29:11 EEST 2008 armv6l unknown
Aug 15 09:50:00 <GeneralAntilles> Here
Aug 15 09:50:27 <qwerty12> I'm sure that is the updated kernel. what does "dpkg -s kernel-diablo-flasher" say?
Aug 15 09:51:16 <GeneralAntilles> Same as yours.
Aug 15 09:52:02 <qwerty12> Yeah, it's the updated version, I just verified
Aug 15 09:52:48 <qwerty12> The kernel is now at 2.6.21-200829, it would be nice if kernel-source-diablo_2.6.21-200823 was kernel-source-diablo_2.6.21-200829 instead :)
Aug 15 09:53:00 <GeneralAntilles> File a bug
Aug 15 09:53:07 <GeneralAntilles> Make it a blocker for kicks. ;)
Aug 15 09:53:25 * qwerty12 would prefer it if the diablo sdk repository was updated at the same time at catalogue.tableteer
Aug 15 09:53:29 <qwerty12> Yeah, good idea
Aug 15 09:53:45 <GeneralAntilles> Anyway, sleep attempt part II coming up right now for me.
Aug 15 09:54:05 * qwerty12 hands GeneralAntilles some sleeping pills
Aug 15 09:55:29 * qwerty12 gets back to compiling kernel-source-diablo_2.6.21-200823 with PREEMPT. I can't believe others have the luck :(
Aug 15 10:00:34 <kaie> timely, it seems to loop. it seems to repeatedly try to backup the same files
Aug 15 10:00:45 <rmrfchik> what are login/password for nokia repositaries?
Aug 15 10:02:37 <kaie> timely, timeless, qwerty12 but I only have the following symbolic links: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/514871
Aug 15 10:03:02 <kaie> so I hope the information that it is stuck in an endless loop trying to backup the same files helps you. I do have the log files if you want them
Aug 15 10:03:07 <qwerty12> kaie: sorry, seems like your problem isn't the symlinks
Aug 15 10:03:19 <qwerty12> Hmm, did you purge claws-mail?
Aug 15 10:03:23 <kaie> yes
Aug 15 10:03:28 <kaie> purge? uninstall. yes
Aug 15 10:03:36 <kaie> but not restart n810
Aug 15 10:03:44 <qwerty12> Try apt-get remove --purge claws*
Aug 15 10:03:58 <qwerty12> (make sure it isn't removing anything that isn't claws related)
Aug 15 10:04:13 <qwerty12> --purge removes files in /etc which is where claws puts it backup configuration file
Aug 15 10:04:24 <qwerty12> s/it/its/
Aug 15 10:04:24 <infobot> qwerty12 meant: --purge removes files in /etc which is where claws puts its backup configuration file
Aug 15 10:04:35 <kaie> qwerty12, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/514872
Aug 15 10:05:10 <kaie> didn't help
Aug 15 10:05:36 <qwerty12> crap. does "ls /etc/osso-backup/applications/claws-mail.conf" say anything?
Aug 15 10:05:55 <kaie> qwerty12, yes, there is a file
Aug 15 10:06:07 <kaie> rm ?
Aug 15 10:06:09 <qwerty12> yep
Aug 15 10:06:23 <qwerty12> after that, try osso-backup again
Aug 15 10:07:42 <kaie> qwerty12, no change. stalls on ok button. does still not switch to progress bar
Aug 15 10:08:09 <qwerty12> arrgh, I'm out of suggestions then, sorry
Aug 15 10:08:10 <Talus46_n810> good morning all a bye going to the beach now :)
Aug 15 10:09:17 <aquatix> Talus46_n810: damn you :P
Aug 15 10:09:24 <Talus46_n810> hehe
Aug 15 10:09:52 * aquatix shouldn't complain, working from home and all
Aug 15 10:10:08 <qwerty12> damn, I was going to rob your house in 10 mins
Aug 15 10:10:35 * aquatix gets his Nerf gun
Aug 15 10:11:12 <kaie> qwerty12, thanks for trying, no worries
Aug 15 10:11:38 <qwerty12> :)
Aug 15 10:13:11 <qwerty12> Quick question, if I wish to rebuild cx3110x module, do I use: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/c/cx3110x-module-src/ ?
Aug 15 10:13:14 <Talus46_n810> cool i wouldn't mind that to
Aug 15 10:13:39 <Talus46_n810> work from home i mean
Aug 15 10:14:14 <Talus46_n810> does nokia want a php and webservices guru?
Aug 15 10:14:23 <Talus46_n810> :))
Aug 15 10:14:26 <aquatix> Talus46_n810: :)
Aug 15 10:14:32 * aquatix doesn't work for Nokia though ;)
Aug 15 10:14:54 <aquatix> Talus46_n810: maemo can use some fast servers though :)
Aug 15 10:15:20 <Talus46_n810> fast server or fast services
Aug 15 10:15:31 <aquatix> fast connection i guess
Aug 15 10:15:36 <Talus46_n810> hehe
Aug 15 10:15:43 <aquatix> so, nothing really you can do about i think :)
Aug 15 10:16:34 <bergie> aquatix: we have new servers, but they still wait for installation
Aug 15 10:17:02 <Talus46_n810> well guess i can go to the beach with no worries :)
Aug 15 10:17:33 <aquatix> bergie: ah, cool
Aug 15 10:17:44 <aquatix> bergie: that was that move about i guess?
Aug 15 10:17:50 <aquatix> how did that go btw?
Aug 15 10:17:59 <lbt> hmm - message from maemo-contributors says: http://slexy.org/view/s21CnhbEcN
Aug 15 10:18:44 * aquatix is missing a name on that list
Aug 15 10:37:03 <kaie> n810 flashed to diable worked. backup restored (without settings). now installing apps. afterwards I intend to extract my full /home/user backup
Aug 15 10:37:14 <kaie> unless you think that's a bad idea
Aug 15 10:56:52 * lcuk bangs his head against a wall
Aug 15 10:57:31 <aquatix> please don't hurt the poor wall
Aug 15 10:57:39 <qwerty12> northern walls are weak. Don't worry, the wall is safe.
Aug 15 10:58:00 * aquatix saw a really big wall on tv this week
Aug 15 10:58:14 <Veggen> "This elevator is safe. Completely safe. It can't fall down. But in the event that it should still fall down, ..."
Aug 15 10:58:28 <Veggen> I actually saw that in an elevator, once.
Aug 15 10:58:35 <aquatix> lol
Aug 15 10:58:37 <lcuk> the titanic was unsinkable as well
Aug 15 10:58:48 <aquatix> gives you a lot of trust in the thing ;)
Aug 15 10:59:03 <aquatix> lcuk: it didn't sink, it crashed ;)
Aug 15 11:03:24 <lcuk> aquatix so i suppose right now its above the surface of the earth just with VERY heavy rainfalling on the deck?
Aug 15 11:04:06 <aquatix> it underwent a deck misplacement
Aug 15 11:04:22 <lcuk> deck malfunction
Aug 15 11:04:24 <aquatix> the sea was placed above deck level by accident
Aug 15 11:04:30 <aquatix> exactly
Aug 15 11:04:32 <bergie> aquatix: no, the move earlier this week was some ISP internal stuff, the new servers are still waiting
Aug 15 11:05:03 <aquatix> bergie: ah, i thought it was some incremental upgrading thing; first better data centre, then new servers or something :)
Aug 15 11:05:27 <lcuk> melting polar ice raises the sea level so much
Aug 15 11:05:29 <aquatix> bergie: will those new servers make the sites faster, or is that limited by the bandwidth available atm
Aug 15 11:06:05 <lcuk> they are upgrading the internet connection from dialup to broadband
Aug 15 11:06:19 <bergie> aquatix: they should make the sites much faster... now by running mediawiki, midgard etc on same small box we are just completely out of resources
Aug 15 11:06:45 <bergie> the new setup will be a cluster
Aug 15 11:07:02 <aquatix> ah :)
Aug 15 11:07:04 <aquatix> sounds good
Aug 15 11:07:12 <aquatix> didn't know it was one poor box
Aug 15 11:07:29 * lcuk mutters something about lack of software optimisation recently
Aug 15 11:07:32 <bergie> it has been the same box since the beginning of the maemo project, I think
Aug 15 11:07:37 <aquatix> lcuk: so true :/
Aug 15 11:07:50 <bergie> and since then we have been going from some hundreds of users to 12k
Aug 15 11:07:53 <aquatix> bergie: it's glowing in the dark from sheer heat?
Aug 15 11:08:02 <Stskeeps> isn't maemo.org running on a n770? :P
Aug 15 11:08:10 <lcuk> if midgard and mediawiki were designed to run as fast as possible in a constrained environment (ie designed for NIT...) then when you DO run it on a big box it will flyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Aug 15 11:08:17 <bergie> aquatix: I'd imagine ;-) The loads are often 10+
Aug 15 11:08:28 <aquatix> ouch
Aug 15 11:08:29 <lcuk> (and lots of other software as well)
Aug 15 11:09:10 <bergie> lcuk: sure... but few server software is
Aug 15 11:09:25 <bergie> though, in reality Midgard *is* available for maemo
Aug 15 11:09:27 <lcuk> <bergie> lcuk: sure... but few software is
Aug 15 11:10:03 <lcuk> bergie, im just anti-software bloat and very into optimisation
Aug 15 11:10:04 <bergie> but the point is not running a full CMS on the tablet, but instead of use persistent, replicated storage features of it
Aug 15 11:10:56 <lcuk> yes - if someone had to design a fully working 100% featureful CMS to run well on a tablet just think how much better it would be when run anywhere else?
Aug 15 11:11:08 <bergie> lcuk: I think every software has some target platform, and both Midgard and MediaWiki have been designed for higher-end server environments... and if you run it all on a small box you end up in trouböe
Aug 15 11:11:13 <bergie> trouble, that is
Aug 15 11:11:22 * aquatix wonders what makes these things so slow
Aug 15 11:11:24 <aquatix> db stuff?
Aug 15 11:11:41 <bergie> PHP parsing, DB, memory leaks in PHP etc
Aug 15 11:11:49 <aquatix> i heard projects like pidgin had issues with their trac because of the slowness of the version control plugin
Aug 15 11:12:00 <lcuk> yer bergie - thats the problem i see with lots of software for the NIT - big box software crammed into the nokia and running horrendously and not giving the best of what this platform has to offer
Aug 15 11:12:03 <aquatix> and trac is python
Aug 15 11:12:21 <bergie> aquatix: yeah, we saw a lot of Apache memory leaks with mod_python
Aug 15 11:12:24 * aquatix has a love/hate relationship with php
Aug 15 11:13:12 <bergie> lcuk: yeah... that is why next spring we will release a completely rewritten version of Midgard to battle the bloat and performance problems
Aug 15 11:13:21 <lcuk> \o/ w000t
Aug 15 11:13:26 <aquatix> cool
Aug 15 11:13:31 <bergie> the current versions still have lots of code written in late 90s targeting PHP3...
Aug 15 11:13:38 <aquatix> ouch
Aug 15 11:13:51 <aquatix> sounds like some refactoring is in order indeed
Aug 15 11:13:58 <bergie> a rewrite every 10 years is in order :-)
Aug 15 11:14:03 <lcuk> but thats not wrong?  old software was already constrained wasnt it?
Aug 15 11:14:20 <aquatix> lcuk: well, php in 1998 was... quite basic :)
Aug 15 11:14:24 <lcuk> its the bloat thats been  added over the years
Aug 15 11:14:28 <lcuk> GOOD
Aug 15 11:14:29 <bergie> yes, what people want to do on the web has changed quite a bit since '97 when we started working on Midgard
Aug 15 11:14:45 <lardman> afternoon
Aug 15 11:14:49 <Jaffa> lo lardman
Aug 15 11:14:51 <lcuk> hi lardman
Aug 15 11:14:56 <lardman> hi Jaffa, lcuk
Aug 15 11:15:00 <lcuk> hi lurker jaffa
Aug 15 11:15:52 <lcuk> i sent a mail to marius by the way, i found an irc stats program last night which may give useful extractable stats for the karma thing :)
Aug 15 11:16:07 <lcuk> bbiab
Aug 15 11:16:08 <lardman> oh cool, will be interesting to see
Aug 15 11:16:46 <lardman> lcuk: have you patched it to give: n_lines_lcuk *= 100; ? ;)
Aug 15 11:17:47 <aquatix> lardman: *= 42, that's less suspicious ;)
Aug 15 11:17:56 <lardman> lol
Aug 15 11:19:51 <Jaffa> lardman: he don't need it looking at the lines since January ;-)
Aug 15 11:20:00 <lardman> true
Aug 15 11:20:05 <lardman> :)
Aug 15 11:20:08 <mib_f4c7z9> where can i get this software? http://www.trendygadget.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/nokia_n800_iphone.jpg
Aug 15 11:20:12 <jott> lardman: in fact it's n_lines_lcuk /= 10;  so it does not seem lcuk is the only one always talking here ;P
Aug 15 11:20:20 <lardman> World record for Garage project approval, about 2min
Aug 15 11:20:39 <lardman> I wonder if X-Fade has set his mail client to automatically approve anything that comes in :)
Aug 15 11:21:36 <Jaffa> mib_f4c7z9: iLauncher IIRC
Aug 15 11:23:03 <Stskeeps> odd question.. what's the danger of mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs , add files, and mount -o remount,ro /mnt/initfs?
Aug 15 11:23:11 <Stskeeps> on chinook
Aug 15 11:24:51 <Stskeeps> because it's stated that diablo allows for "rw" initfs, whereas it seems like chinook could do that just as easily :P
Aug 15 11:37:13 <lcuk> jott lardman, are you saying i post too many lines?
Aug 15 11:37:16 <lcuk> if so you are wrong
Aug 15 11:37:19 <lcuk> i dont monologue
Aug 15 11:37:36 * lcuk posts for karma
Aug 15 11:38:18 <lcuk> jott, what surprised me about the line count was kotzcarny - he hasnt been here for ages and i still havent caught up with him
Aug 15 11:40:06 <lcuk> this is the sort of stats i think we should have available: http://purl.rikers.org/stats/oe.html.gz
Aug 15 11:41:12 <Mace_> hm
Aug 15 11:41:25 <Mace_> anybody know of a good gui for sftp?
Aug 15 11:41:46 <Mace_> i heard there was a gftp for maemo.. never tried it though
Aug 15 11:44:06 <timeless> who was suggesting a WTF relating to file systems?
Aug 15 11:44:25 <timeless> it turns out the problem in this case was related to file system ownership :)
Aug 15 11:46:31 <jott> lcuk: yes, kotzcarnys linecount is amazing, but if you didn't /= 10 on your line count you would be far on top :P
Aug 15 11:46:37 <lcuk> :P
Aug 15 11:46:52 <kaie> I#ve flashed to diablo, I've reinstalled apps, afterwards I've carefully installed missing pieces from a /home/user backup, not overwriting stuff, and now the attempt to backup-with-settings still fails
Aug 15 11:47:07 <lcuk> hey - i am on that list twice ! and i didnt /10 anything :P
Aug 15 11:47:11 <kaie> fails => stalls, looping
Aug 15 11:47:49 <kaie> maemo-launcher 99% cpu
Aug 15 11:48:10 <kaie> disk use stable, does not increase
Aug 15 11:49:32 <jott> maybe mgeadmin could run the pisg or something, he has very old logs and hosts them anyway.
Aug 15 11:49:48 <timeless> kaie: still stracing?
Aug 15 11:50:24 <kaie> timeless, I have an strace from the earlier OS release, and that told me, that osso-backup is repeatedly looping over the same files
Aug 15 11:50:50 <timeless> might as well get another strace for this one :)
Aug 15 11:50:59 <timeless> much better to file bugs in bugs.maemo.org based on current :)
Aug 15 11:51:06 <timeless> (it can't be that hard)
Aug 15 11:51:09 <kaie> timeless, I still have the strace logfile, I don't think things have changed
Aug 15 11:51:09 * timeless is in a meeting
Aug 15 11:51:13 <lcuk> jott, thats what i was thinki
Aug 15 11:51:27 <kaie> stracing and logging was painful and took a lot of time
Aug 15 11:51:27 <lcuk> ng
Aug 15 11:51:44 <lcuk> kaie, just post him your device :D
Aug 15 11:52:08 <kaie> if he sends me n810 plus one
Aug 15 11:52:21 <kaie> :-)
Aug 15 11:53:30 <kaie> oh interesting, maybe that helps. [pid  1863] open("/home/user/.purple/logs/irc/kaie2@irc.mozilla.org/", O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_LARGEFILE|O_DIRECTORY) = -1 EMFILE (Too m
Aug 15 11:53:30 <kaie> any open files)
Aug 15 11:53:50 <kaie> maybe there is no check for this error case, and the app keeps trying
Aug 15 11:54:20 <kaie> the last attempt to open a file got handle =1023
Aug 15 11:54:38 <kaie> the backup software appears to loop, opening many files, but not closing them
Aug 15 11:54:58 <kaie> I guess that's the default beahvior of the app
Aug 15 11:55:10 <kaie> but does not affect average users with a limited number of files
Aug 15 11:56:06 <eichi_> is there a new version of bootmenu?
Aug 15 11:56:17 <eichi_> that works after latest uss update?
Aug 15 11:56:29 <kaie> timeless, create /home/user/.claws-mail and create 1000 files in it, then backup settings, and you should be able to reproduce
Aug 15 11:56:32 <kaie> I'm guessing
Aug 15 11:56:55 <lbt> Stskeeps: re your initfs question...
Aug 15 11:57:14 <lbt> IIRC it's because jffs2 has a large eraseblock
Aug 15 11:57:24 <lbt> so you can run out of space whilst saving
Aug 15 11:57:31 <lbt> and cause corruption (I think)
Aug 15 11:57:44 <lbt> and this is bad if you are editing linuxrc
Aug 15 11:58:03 <kaie> ok, let me file abug
Aug 15 11:58:08 <pusling> so... where isn maemo-mapper user questios on topic ?
Aug 15 11:58:41 <lbt> -user ml? or here
Aug 15 11:58:59 <pusling> I will go for here then ;)
Aug 15 11:59:34 <pusling> is there a way to mark places for later (based on the maps, not basedd on my location)
Aug 15 11:59:38 <lbt> it's friday - everyone will be busy with work
Aug 15 11:59:48 <lbt> BWAHAHAHAHA
Aug 15 11:59:51 <lbt> POI
Aug 15 11:59:56 <lbt> Points of Interest
Aug 15 12:00:01 <lbt> I think I made them work...
Aug 15 12:00:10 <lbt> hold down on the map and the popup appears
Aug 15 12:00:19 <lbt> I think you can create a POI
Aug 15 12:00:46 <lbt> (mm isn't on my current tablet rootfs so I can't check)
Aug 15 12:01:26 <pusling> ah yes.  I_have missed the full "hold down" part of it.
Aug 15 12:02:29 <pusling> is there a way to add streetnames and submit to openstreetmap on my way around ?
Aug 15 12:02:42 <lbt> don't think so
Aug 15 12:02:47 <lbt> be nice though
Aug 15 12:03:25 <lbt> there's an app called viking though
Aug 15 12:03:42 <lbt> which I *think* is on the tablet somewhere
Aug 15 12:03:45 <lbt> and it might
Aug 15 12:07:58 <pusling> I can't find viking in the application installer nor installed
Aug 15 12:08:16 <lbt> probably on a third party site then
Aug 15 12:08:28 <lbt> it's on my list to investigate...
Aug 15 12:09:09 <lcuk> lbt, you are upping your irc post count "for greater karma" :D
Aug 15 12:09:32 <lbt> nah - making a point for Dave N ;)
Aug 15 12:09:42 <lcuk> lol
Aug 15 12:12:02 <lardman> lcuk: where's the post count list then?
Aug 15 12:12:08 * jott thinks about getting a karma whore to make a point :P
Aug 15 12:12:29 <lcuk> on that email i posted a link
Aug 15 12:12:47 <lcuk> im in vnc now and have a butty in hand so its a bit tough to switch and reopen mail
Aug 15 12:12:57 <jott> lardman:  http://slexy.org/view/s20lAJ9KUY
Aug 15 12:14:00 <lardman> thanks
Aug 15 12:14:06 <lcuk> one thing though, all people on the list, do not show to significant others :P
Aug 15 12:14:17 <lardman> lol
Aug 15 12:14:50 <lardman> ah well, won't do my karma any harm anyway
Aug 15 12:15:14 <lcuk> it eill when they filter out bacon posts
Aug 15 12:15:25 <lardman> lol
Aug 15 12:15:27 <lardman> and lols
Aug 15 12:15:30 <jott> hehe i think dneary want to have lines_on_irc_modifier = -1
Aug 15 12:16:13 <jott> lcuk that would give you a whooping -24000 karma ;)
Aug 15 12:16:45 <lcuk> w000t i am the anti hacker
Aug 15 12:17:47 * jott still has to write the "love-bot" for his 300 extra karma
Aug 15 12:18:12 <lardman> I understand the issue people may have having with not enough karma to vote, but striving for karma is un-karmic
Aug 15 12:18:30 <lbt> not
Aug 15 12:18:31 <lcuk> dneary has 671 posts
Aug 15 12:18:32 <lbt> at
Aug 15 12:18:33 <XTL> Another piece of evidence about karma's flawedness
Aug 15 12:18:34 <lbt> the
Aug 15 12:18:36 <lbt> minute
Aug 15 12:18:38 <lbt> mardman
Aug 15 12:18:42 <lbt> oops
Aug 15 12:19:00 <lcuk> lbt, you lose :P
Aug 15 12:19:02 <lbt> s/mardman/lardman/
Aug 15 12:19:06 <lbt> damn
Aug 15 12:19:08 <lbt> bad
Aug 15 12:19:09 <lbt> syntax
Aug 15 12:19:11 <lcuk> maybe i should look for something like "thanks [nick]"
Aug 15 12:19:15 <jott> lbt: remember you get -1 karma per line :p
Aug 15 12:19:17 <lardman> well lines with less than a certain number of words should be filtered out
Aug 15 12:19:19 <lcuk> and count that as karma
Aug 15 12:19:22 <lbt> I'm
Aug 15 12:19:31 <lbt> going for rollover karma
Aug 15 12:19:39 <lbt> backwards
Aug 15 12:19:53 <lbt> the only way to beat Quim
Aug 15 12:20:01 <lcuk> lardman, its interaction to any  tune, im not bothered how much it counts, but just would like to see the good work we do in here showing up
Aug 15 12:20:02 <lbt> overflow
Aug 15 12:20:13 <lcuk> lol lbt
Aug 15 12:20:14 <jott> hm i think it's not that hard to get on place one with karma if you really want to.
Aug 15 12:20:22 <lbt> yeah - like a GPL liqbase ;)
Aug 15 12:20:25 <lardman> lcuk: yeah, but does it need to be given a numerical rating?
Aug 15 12:20:37 <eichi_> if i have so much problems with this dual boot, nokia forces me to go back to the old intern memory default system style....this kind of forces are not the linux like way.....
Aug 15 12:20:55 <lcuk> no - karma as a game is bad: slashdot stopped displaying it as a number eventually
Aug 15 12:21:00 <lcuk> it was fun to bait it
Aug 15 12:21:11 <lbt> eichi_: I've been thinking about how to get a dual-boot friendly linuxrc to Nokia
Aug 15 12:21:15 <lardman> anyway, got to go, speak to you chaps over the weekend (wedding to go to though)
Aug 15 12:21:16 <lcuk> eichi_, sorry, this is irc according to dneary we arent meant to help you
Aug 15 12:21:50 <jott> lcuk: karma as an (automatic) form of measurement is bad.
Aug 15 12:21:57 <lcuk> eichi_, i have seen a number of people with this same problem
Aug 15 12:22:18 <lbt> have a look here: https://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting
Aug 15 12:22:24 <lbt> no howto
Aug 15 12:22:26 <eichi_> lcuk, its not a problem, its a feature from nokia
Aug 15 12:22:36 <lcuk> its the linux way as long as you stop updating from the ofificial source which expects a certain layout to its device
Aug 15 12:22:55 <eichi_> my hope is mamona
Aug 15 12:23:04 <jott> eichi_: one way could be to backup your initfs partition and then reflash it when nokia "currupts" it.
Aug 15 12:23:21 <lbt> jott: but they may change kernel drivers
Aug 15 12:23:23 <lbt> eek
Aug 15 12:23:30 <kaie> timeless, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3588 and logfile with comments, I think that should help you fix it
Aug 15 12:23:33 <lbt> nah, they need a plug system
Aug 15 12:23:58 <lcuk> is this like microsoft b0rkening the partition table and boot sector after installing?
Aug 15 12:24:16 <jott> you can probably also get around by installing the -unlocked package and then install your own version of kernel and initfs packages with a large version number.
Aug 15 12:25:31 <eichi_> lcuk, you got it
Aug 15 12:25:51 <eichi_> its the "my and no other" comercial kind of way of software
Aug 15 12:26:29 <jott> and the "you ain't get support for haxoring" :)
Aug 15 12:26:37 <lcuk> its the we expect the user  to have a stable device using the configuration layout specified by us.  i agree its wrong and nokia should allow a way to keep your unofficial bootloader etc since it shouldnt effect the rest of the system
Aug 15 12:27:02 <jott> with my "solution" above you should be pretty sure.
Aug 15 12:27:20 <jott> erm it should be working..
Aug 15 12:28:43 <lbt> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3589
Aug 15 12:28:44 <eichi_> one of the problems is, the SSupdate updated not the system on mmc (the running one) it updated the internal system, which i dont use
Aug 15 12:29:06 <lbt> "Initfs reflashes break multi-boot"
Aug 15 12:29:09 * lcuk still cant believe 23k LOC  (lines of chat)
Aug 15 12:29:15 <lbt> bbl
Aug 15 12:29:23 <lbt> sausage butties await...
Aug 15 12:29:39 <jott> lbt: i bet this will get a WONTFIX..
Aug 15 12:29:45 <eichi_> jott, you got my message?
Aug 15 12:29:57 <jott> uh?
Aug 15 12:30:09 <eichi_> <eichi_> one of the problems is, the SSupdate updated not the system on mmc (the running one) it updated the internal system, which i dont use
Aug 15 12:30:12 <jott> ah
Aug 15 12:30:50 <jott> eichi_: yeah well you would have to install your own kernel/initfs packages on the systems you want to update
Aug 15 12:31:07 <lcuk> or the SSU might actually check where its running
Aug 15 12:31:26 * lcuk is as guilty as anyone for assuming hard written paths
Aug 15 12:31:42 <jott> na it just gets the updated initfs/kernel as package and flashes it.
Aug 15 12:31:53 <jott> no matter where your rootfs is :)
Aug 15 12:31:57 <lcuk> to the wrong place
Aug 15 12:32:03 <eichi_> lcuk, thats what i mean if i think "not the linux way"
Aug 15 12:32:26 <jott> lcuk: there is only one place for the kernel/initfs no matter how you boot.
Aug 15 12:32:59 <jott> eichi_: i still doubt nokia will accept it as a problem :(
Aug 15 12:33:02 <lcuk> ahh i thought it was like the boot area of a specific device
Aug 15 12:33:08 <lcuk> not a single area for the whole computer
Aug 15 12:33:26 <jott> lcuk: unfortunatley this is not possible yet.
Aug 15 12:33:26 * lcuk learns something new
Aug 15 12:33:48 <jott> (like choosing your own kernel and initfs at boot time)
Aug 15 12:33:52 <lcuk> no jott, thats ok - it at least makes sense now and i can see why its happening
Aug 15 12:34:09 <eichi_> hm, now i will reflash the n800 and use is the common way...with some tears in my eyes...
Aug 15 12:34:45 <jott> eichi_: why is that? you can reflash just kernel and initfs at any time..
Aug 15 12:35:06 <lcuk> jott, so is there any other way round this by using other tricks: like as soon into the boot as possible map all FS branches onto mmcX?  rather than replacing the whole lot?
Aug 15 12:35:20 <jott> and you can even boot from mmc with the nokia initfs.
Aug 15 12:35:39 <lbt> jott: re WONTFIX : submit a reasonable patch though...
Aug 15 12:35:52 <eichi_> johnx, is there a howto?
Aug 15 12:36:12 <jott> eichi_: you can just use flasher to set the root device for the nokia initfs.
Aug 15 12:36:18 <eichi_> and what about initfs only? i want the maemo kernel updates maybe
Aug 15 12:36:54 <lbt> I think you'd need kexec - but I think the hardware limitations make it unlikely (!)
Aug 15 12:36:57 <jott> eichi_: just make a backup of your initfs and copy it to your pc. you can use flasher to just flash the initfs later.
Aug 15 12:37:28 <trickie> unless the modules in the initfs don't work with a newer kernel
Aug 15 12:37:28 <lbt> but make a backup of the new initfs
Aug 15 12:37:33 <jott> lcuk: the bootloader is closed source, and without serial/jtag it is no fun testing stuff at this level ;)
Aug 15 12:37:34 <lcuk> cant   you keep it on old original partition and use internal flash
Aug 15 12:37:45 <lbt> 'cos if the kernel changes then toasty...
Aug 15 12:38:51 <lcuk> all this is why i dont like custom kernel changes - you get used to an aftermarket  feature and after a standard update you are back to sqaure one
Aug 15 12:39:23 <lcuk> jott, your rotation patch - can it be done with insmod type things, or does it require the kernel change
Aug 15 12:39:37 <jott> lcuk: but this is just since diablo. before your kernel was not touched until a full reflash :)
Aug 15 12:39:41 <lbt> the wiki page is supposed to inform about how to get back to things like that easily
Aug 15 12:39:55 <lcuk> but every update from nokia was a fullflash
Aug 15 12:40:06 <jott> lcuk: it touches the lcd driver which is not loaded as a module - so no.
Aug 15 12:40:26 <lcuk> ok
Aug 15 12:40:30 <jott> but i think we need to think about a proper way of delivering custom kernels anyway.
Aug 15 12:40:36 <jott> to prevent automatic updates.
Aug 15 12:41:00 <lcuk> or to re-apply after automatic updates
Aug 15 12:41:01 <jott> i am more and more sure that we need something better than -unlocked like -community
Aug 15 12:41:52 <trickie> lcuk: but if your initfs has modules for the newer kerne than re-applying may stuff you up
Aug 15 12:41:53 <jott> which in turn has to be updated by the community on ssu updates.
Aug 15 12:42:29 <lcuk> trickie, indeed and its a trickie problem to solve
Aug 15 12:42:30 <jott> trickie: what do you think would be the "best" solution?
Aug 15 12:42:52 <trickie> hehe i was afraid someone would ask me
Aug 15 12:43:01 <trickie> i really do not know...
Aug 15 12:43:08 <lbt> Maybe files in existing /mnt/initfs/local should be linked to the new initfs.
Aug 15 12:43:20 <jott> i can only see it by having a osso-software-version-community with proper packages.
Aug 15 12:43:28 <lbt> then any kernel version modules would go into lib/modules/kern-ver
Aug 15 12:43:48 <lcuk> ok, supposing the initfs and kernel have changed, but there is nothing wrong with the old one can we not just tell ssu to ignore major kernel updates?
Aug 15 12:43:58 <trickie> jott: yes a meta-package that blocks auto-kernel/initfs updates seems to be the only way
Aug 15 12:44:01 <jott> it would be greate to convince nokia to inform people about ssu 1-2 days before..
Aug 15 12:44:30 <Mace_> Stskeeps - how is that nit-debian distro coming along?
Aug 15 12:44:31 <jott> so the community could prepare the software-version packages .. but that's just dreaming :/
Aug 15 12:44:33 <lbt> now *that* is council material
Aug 15 12:44:33 <Mace_> :)
Aug 15 12:44:37 <trickie> lcuk: yes we could block the update using a meta-package like what jott said
Aug 15 12:44:47 <Mace_> i'm waiting for one with built in bt utilities heh
Aug 15 12:45:15 <Mace_> something as easy to hook up to my phone as maemo/hildon
Aug 15 12:45:35 <lcuk> by the way, i never heard back from the bank about those credit card details i got.  any ideas what i should do with em?
Aug 15 12:45:40 <lcuk> trickie, great
Aug 15 12:45:47 <lbt> Mace_: wait 'til October
Aug 15 12:46:10 <lbt> lcuk: let The Register know...
Aug 15 12:46:39 <Mace_> lbt?
Aug 15 12:46:44 <Mace_> what happens in october?
Aug 15 12:47:07 <lbt> Nokia releases the API for BT connectivity to their entire phone range
Aug 15 12:47:19 <lbt> not sure *which* october mind...
Aug 15 12:47:20 <Mace_> nit-debian was so awesome :) other than the sound support being a little odd and setting up bt stuff to connect (like my n95 and su8w)
Aug 15 12:47:33 <crashanddie> lcuk, slexy 'em
Aug 15 12:47:51 <lcuk> lbt, i contacted john leyden at the reg a while ago
Aug 15 12:47:51 <Mace_> i thought they were releasing all of symbian
Aug 15 12:48:00 <Mace_> they just bought it recently and were going to open it up
Aug 15 12:48:01 <lcuk> july 24th
Aug 15 12:48:17 <glass_> Mace_: the opensourcing is a long term thing
Aug 15 12:48:22 <brontide> I really don't understand why they applied all sorts of weird restrictions to the community council
Aug 15 12:48:30 <Mace_> i know.. but they are trying to compete with the google phone os
Aug 15 12:48:30 <lbt> send a message to Bruce Schneier - he's fairly interested
Aug 15 12:48:35 <glass_> Mace_: and i doubt it would be possible to build your own symbian and flash it even then..
Aug 15 12:48:43 <lbt> kind of "what am I *supposed* to do?"
Aug 15 12:48:59 <Mace_> glass - heh.. probably.. but it is amazing what people do with open source stuff
Aug 15 12:48:59 <lcuk> lbt, ill talk to you later about it - work calls
Aug 15 12:49:03 <lbt> 'k
Aug 15 12:49:10 <lcuk> crashanddie, i wont slexy them - theres people from all over
Aug 15 12:49:16 <Mace_> they better get the jump on google
Aug 15 12:49:17 <glass_> Mace_: it will be useful for figuring out the poorly documented apis
Aug 15 12:49:24 <glass_> Mace_: and the undocumented apis
Aug 15 12:49:27 <crashanddie> lcuk, if they're even real
Aug 15 12:49:38 <kaie> oh that's funny. "cd /; find . -type f | wc -l " , this give me "too many open files"
Aug 15 12:50:02 <lcuk> oh they are real alright, theres one from my town
Aug 15 12:50:12 <Mace_> well.. i'm going to see if i can dig up an older 2G sd and put the nit-debian beta3 on it
Aug 15 12:50:25 <Mace_> just to try getting the bt working .. it seems like it SHOULD work
Aug 15 12:50:32 <Mace_> i think it's missing modules for the dun
Aug 15 12:51:05 <lcuk> crashanddie, which "town" are you in?
Aug 15 12:51:53 <crashanddie> lcuk, SE12 0UQ
Aug 15 12:51:56 <crashanddie> Lee
Aug 15 12:52:53 <lbt> crashanddie: go outside and wave - I want to see you on google maps...
Aug 15 12:52:59 <crashanddie> hang on
Aug 15 12:53:03 <XTL> Ooh, there's a prism for maemo?
Aug 15 12:53:26 <lbt> <sigh> put some trousers on crashanddie....
Aug 15 12:53:39 <crashanddie> lbt, no that's not me
Aug 15 12:53:55 <lcuk> its not the lack of trousers that bothers me, its the fleshlight he forgot to take off
Aug 15 12:54:40 <lcuk> anyway, on that karmaburning note im gonna go back to work
Aug 15 12:55:01 <crashanddie> lcuk, I doubt IRC is ever going to make it in the karma process
Aug 15 12:55:15 <crashanddie> lcuk, if it does, I'm going to get dust off my monologue script
Aug 15 12:55:33 <crashanddie> s/get //
Aug 15 12:55:33 <infobot> crashanddie meant: lcuk, if it does, I'm going to dust off my monologue script
Aug 15 12:55:49 <jott> crashanddie: you can easily gain karma with scripts right now
Aug 15 12:55:56 <crashanddie> jott, yeah I know
Aug 15 12:56:04 <crashanddie> jott, and I might just start doing it just to prove how stupid it is
Aug 15 12:56:09 <lcuk> go and vote up all bugs and posts and things
Aug 15 12:56:22 <Jaffa> crashanddie: and then the ops will ban you.
Aug 15 12:56:31 <jott> crashanddie: yeah thats what i thought
Aug 15 12:56:37 <jott> Jaffa: why?
Aug 15 12:56:37 <lardman> thought I'd come back and karma-whore a little ;)
Aug 15 12:56:39 <Jaffa> It's easy to spam IRC; it's easy to spot the spammers too and handle them
Aug 15 12:56:43 <crashanddie> Jaffa, who said you'd be able to link me ?
Aug 15 12:57:03 <Jaffa> crashanddie: if you want the karma, to "prove" the system's broken, you have to have an identifiable script.
Aug 15 12:57:07 <Jaffa> s/script/nick/
Aug 15 12:57:07 <infobot> Jaffa meant: crashanddie: if you want the karma, to "prove" the system's broken, you have to have an identifiable nick.
Aug 15 12:57:23 <crashanddie> Jaffa, oh and yeah, create a garage maemo account is so secure
Aug 15 12:57:24 <jott> i wonder how much karma darius jack has :P
Aug 15 12:57:32 <crashanddie> creating**
Aug 15 12:58:05 <brontide> I'm sponsored to germany, but according to the rules I can't vote or be nominated
Aug 15 12:58:05 <crashanddie> I mean, no one could possibly create a bogus nickname on maemo.org, or even use a bogus nickname here in IRC, just to prove how broken it is
Aug 15 12:58:25 <Jaffa> I think it's interesting that those of you who think karma's a bad idea and useless and shouldn't be used also talk about resorting to vandalism to make your point.
Aug 15 12:58:36 <crashanddie> and no one could possibly use a server say, in France, or another one in Belgium, or another one in Spain, so that they can't possibly be linked with a real user
Aug 15 12:59:01 <crashanddie> Jaffa, which vandalism ?
Aug 15 12:59:04 <timeless> brontide: why can't you vote?
Aug 15 12:59:05 <jott> Jaffa: because we think the whole concept is flawed
Aug 15 12:59:13 <Jaffa> FFS, when the karma system was first introduced one of the reasons given was to help decide who'd get future device discounts; but now you're fussing over voting on an potentially ineffectual council.
Aug 15 12:59:20 <brontide> because my maemo.org account is not old enough
Aug 15 12:59:27 <lardman> anyone fancy working out the structure of the dsp eap calls? I could do with an eap sink
Aug 15 12:59:28 <Jaffa> crashanddie: spamming the IRC channel would be vandalism IMHO
Aug 15 12:59:41 <brontide> despite my participation in the community going back at least a year
Aug 15 12:59:55 <crashanddie> Please don't insult our intelligence by defaming us and calling us vandals, considering that, AFAIK, there's no one spamming just yet
Aug 15 13:00:05 <crashanddie> we're just talking about it
Aug 15 13:00:13 <timeless> discussing attacking a system in some places can get you arrested :)
Aug 15 13:00:44 <Jaffa> crashanddie: I said you were talking about resorting to vandalism. That's what you've just said as well. I didn't call you a vandal, nor insult your intelligence.
Aug 15 13:01:02 <XTL> Looks dead :(
Aug 15 13:01:20 <crashanddie> Jaffa, no, I said "I might", small difference, but difference nonetheless
Aug 15 13:01:39 <kaie> does someone want to confirm bug 3588?
Aug 15 13:02:16 <Jaffa> crashanddie: eh? I said you were "talking about resorting to vandalism", you've just said "we're just talking about it". Where's the gap? I honestly can't see any difference between the two phrases.
Aug 15 13:02:33 <jott> i think its only that karma whores fear their karma might be in danger..
Aug 15 13:03:03 <crashanddie> jott, lol
Aug 15 13:03:04 <timeless> kaie: find *fails* ?
Aug 15 13:03:07 <XTL> 3588 looks like yet another purple/claws vs backup bug?
Aug 15 13:03:07 <andre__> err... where do we have the new logo to use now (png/svg)? somewhere in the wiki? i've only found the broken new one at https://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo_org_logo_colour.png
Aug 15 13:03:24 <kaie> timeless, time on / reports errors, yes, but that's just a funny side notice
Aug 15 13:03:29 <andre__> kaie: sure that's not bug 3425?
Aug 15 13:04:01 <timeless> andre__: steal hte one from mxr.maemo.org :)
Aug 15 13:04:05 <XTL> that's what I mean
Aug 15 13:04:06 <brontide> If I had wanted to karma whore I would have been eligible as a candidite, but still not able to vote.
Aug 15 13:04:25 <kaie> andre__, I can try to create such a file for testing
Aug 15 13:04:47 <andre__> timeless, that's also a broken new one. the R is lower than the rest
Aug 15 13:04:56 <timeless> um
Aug 15 13:05:15 <lardman> Any thoughts about implementing IPC on the DSP?
Aug 15 13:05:25 <crashanddie> brontide, sorry ?
Aug 15 13:05:28 <andre__> kaie, well.. you're sure your problem in 3588 isn't a sideeffect of having bad letters in filenames (see bug 3425)?
Aug 15 13:05:34 <crashanddie> lardman, ouch
Aug 15 13:05:39 <timeless> http://wiki.maemo.org/images/8/8f/Maemo_org_logo.png
Aug 15 13:05:44 <timeless> was what i was told to use by Peter
Aug 15 13:05:51 <crashanddie> lardman, normal sockets don't work ?
Aug 15 13:06:03 <kaie> andre__, I don't know, that's why I propose I create such a file and try
Aug 15 13:06:07 <crashanddie> lardman, unnamed sockets, that is
Aug 15 13:06:11 <Jaffa> brontide: interesting. No-one's pointed out yet that candidates don't have the account age requirement.
Aug 15 13:06:21 <andre__> kaie, ah. ok, please try :)
Aug 15 13:06:35 <brontide> I'm not really upset.  I can't really spend my life following the discussions, but I see that others have brought up the point
Aug 15 13:06:38 <crashanddie> Jaffa, I think it was one part of the first emails, but we must've forgotten it along the road
Aug 15 13:06:41 <andre__> timeless, ok, confusion. i'm going to send an email to the list...
Aug 15 13:06:47 <timeless> andre__: what do you mean the r is lower?
Aug 15 13:07:00 <timeless> oh, you mean the top of the r
Aug 15 13:07:03 <timeless> the baseline is fine
Aug 15 13:07:06 <lardman> crashanddie: there are no socket libraries
Aug 15 13:07:12 <eichi_> does agps works on n800 devices?
Aug 15 13:07:13 <kaie> you allow me to paste 2 lines
Aug 15 13:07:16 <kaie> ~ $ ls -l /home/user/.claws-mail/\#test
Aug 15 13:07:16 <kaie> -rw-r--r--    1 user     users           6 Aug 15 15:01 /home/user/.claws-mail/#test
Aug 15 13:07:25 <kaie> andre__, works fine with that file present
Aug 15 13:07:28 <Jaffa> timeless: yeah, that's it.
Aug 15 13:07:29 <andre__> timeless, yeah the top
Aug 15 13:07:30 <lardman> eichi_: probably does grab the data, but it has nothing to send it to
Aug 15 13:07:50 <eichi_> lardman, means: no!?
Aug 15 13:07:52 <timeless> you should have said shorter, not lower
Aug 15 13:07:56 <andre__> kaie, so it's a different bug. please add a comment to the bug too that it's not the same ;-)
Aug 15 13:08:08 <andre__> timeless, i don't speak english well that early in the morning ;-)
Aug 15 13:08:12 <kaie> andre__, I'd rather suspects it's the other way round. I suspect it's just a guess that #@ are the cause?
Aug 15 13:08:19 <lardman> eichi_: well you'd need to write some code to format and send the agps data to your particular bt gps, so atm no
Aug 15 13:08:22 <kaie> while in reality it might be the number of files present
Aug 15 13:08:34 <timeless> kaie: how important is this?
Aug 15 13:08:37 * timeless could look at the code...
Aug 15 13:09:27 <kaie> timeless, I'd says it's critical for everyone who flashes and doesn't want to start over with settings?
Aug 15 13:09:58 <andre__> the definition of "critical" is different ;-)
Aug 15 13:10:25 * timeless starts indexing w32 and goes to find the sources for backup
Aug 15 13:10:37 <RST38h> moo, all
Aug 15 13:10:38 <kaie> well, I'm glad I found a workaround. If you don't have time to work on it, I propose this workaround should be made well known
Aug 15 13:10:53 <crashanddie> lardman, no pipes either ?
Aug 15 13:11:01 <timeless> kaie: ok.... any hints about what's functionally going on
Aug 15 13:11:13 * timeless decides to look for "settings"
Aug 15 13:11:16 <kaie> timeless, see my comments in the attachment in that bug
Aug 15 13:12:10 <crashanddie> lardman, what language are you using ?
Aug 15 13:12:24 <lardman> crashanddie: C
Aug 15 13:12:36 <crashanddie> lardman, do you have unistd.h ?
Aug 15 13:12:38 * timeless chases settings for a bit
Aug 15 13:12:50 <kaie> timeless, before the settings-backup starts, it does a scan over all files, and opens them all, without closing them (apparently)
Aug 15 13:12:52 <timeless> oh man
Aug 15 13:13:18 <timeless> ok, let's see if 'fopen' is helpful
Aug 15 13:13:24 <timeless> cool, itg is
Aug 15 13:13:29 <timeless> alright, this shoudl be fast
Aug 15 13:14:55 <lardman> crashanddie: not sure, but will do some looking
Aug 15 13:15:01 <crashanddie> lardman, if you have access to unistd.h, you should have pipe() (man 2 pipe), which is a basic but effective IPC
Aug 15 13:15:03 <timeless> hrm, fopen callers seem ok
Aug 15 13:15:33 <lardman> crashanddie: that's implemented in the kernel though isn't it?
Aug 15 13:15:37 <timeless> oh great, gvfs
Aug 15 13:16:36 <timeless> heh, winzip has its own image vviewer
Aug 15 13:17:15 <kaie> timeless, do you have rights to change the bug to NEW?
Aug 15 13:17:28 <timeless> i'm an admin :)
Aug 15 13:17:35 <crashanddie> lardman, it's worth the try
Aug 15 13:17:55 <timeless> ok, this code is scary
Aug 15 13:18:03 <crashanddie> timeless, which code ? Slexy it
Aug 15 13:18:13 <timeless> sorry, it's commercial :)
Aug 15 13:18:31 <crashanddie> I'll sign an NDA with ya
Aug 15 13:18:31 * kaie goes back to the work he's supposed to do
Aug 15 13:18:32 <crashanddie> :P
Aug 15 13:18:44 <lardman> crashanddie: no, it's not there
Aug 15 13:19:08 <lardman> crashanddie: I'll have to peak at the kernel code and see if I can mis-use some fn there to communicate
Aug 15 13:19:50 <timeless> kaie: ok, foudn the code
Aug 15 13:19:55 <timeless> vfs_utils_count_files_helper
Aug 15 13:19:59 <kaie> great! thas was quick
Aug 15 13:20:08 <timeless> which is recursive
Aug 15 13:21:17 <timeless> kaie: this is week 30, right?
Aug 15 13:21:26 * timeless wonders what week this source code is (probably 31)
Aug 15 13:21:41 <timeless> oh, good,, backup hasn't changed in recent memory
Aug 15 13:21:44 * timeless goes back to reading
Aug 15 13:21:56 <crashanddie> lardman, I think you're better off looking at stuff such as SPOX and Spectron, IIRC, those are fully featured real-time dsp-run OSes, so you might have interesting stuff in there
Aug 15 13:22:45 <lardman> ah, looks like there's some more stuff hidden in the dsp/bios
Aug 15 13:22:54 <lardman> might find something suitable in here
Aug 15 13:23:13 <crashanddie> heh, happy digging
Aug 15 13:23:32 <lardman> :)
Aug 15 13:23:44 <kaie> timeless, right now my calendar says this is week 33
Aug 15 13:23:57 <timeless> kaie: yeah, but the image you have on your device is from 30
Aug 15 13:24:08 <lardman> buffered pipes, cool :)
Aug 15 13:24:12 <timeless> and the sources i'm reading are technically from 31, but the eexact same sources were in 30 :)
Aug 15 13:24:12 <kaie> timeless, I have the official image, I think I read it was released in june
Aug 15 13:24:18 <timeless> oh
Aug 15 13:24:23 <timeless> this isn't the update?
Aug 15 13:24:35 <timeless> um, ... some other number, either way, the code hasn't changed :)
Aug 15 13:24:45 <kaie> ok, there was an update. what version number do you need?
Aug 15 13:24:50 <kaie> where can I find it
Aug 15 13:25:09 <timeless> cat /etc/osso_software_version
Aug 15 13:25:38 <timeless> well, this code is cute
Aug 15 13:25:49 <timeless>  gnome_vfs_directory_open_from_uri(...)
Aug 15 13:25:56 <timeless> gnome_vfs_file_info_new()
Aug 15 13:26:00 <timeless> while (1)
Aug 15 13:26:02 <timeless> {
Aug 15 13:26:10 <timeless> gnome_vfs_directory_read_next(...)
Aug 15 13:26:12 <timeless> ...
Aug 15 13:26:20 <timeless> gnome_vfs_file_info_clear(...)
Aug 15 13:26:20 <kaie> timeless, RX-34+RX-44+RX-48_DIABLO_4.2008.30-2_PR_MR0
Aug 15 13:26:21 <timeless> }
Aug 15 13:26:32 <timeless> kaie: the 30 there is a week number
Aug 15 13:26:36 <kaie> ok
Aug 15 13:26:40 <timeless> anyway
Aug 15 13:26:54 <crashanddie> Anyway, 0226, and haven't had something in my stomach yet, time for coffee, loads of it, ttyl
Aug 15 13:27:04 <timeless> for people who want to know why this code is cute
Aug 15 13:27:12 <crashanddie> lardman, there's buffered pipes ? AWESOME !
Aug 15 13:27:27 <timeless> http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/osso-gnome-vfs2-2.16.3/libgnomevfs/gnome-vfs-directory.c?mark=209#204
Aug 15 13:27:43 <timeless> so, anyone see what's clever about this code? :)
Aug 15 13:28:52 <trickie> its already calls gnome_vfs_file_info_clear?
Aug 15 13:29:13 <crashanddie> timeless, you empty the pointer before putting new stuff in it ?
Aug 15 13:29:17 <trickie> but im not really paying attanetion
Aug 15 13:29:22 <crashanddie> which then also closes the file ?
Aug 15 13:29:37 <timeless> crash: the caller clears, and then the callee also clears
Aug 15 13:36:23 * timeless sighs
Aug 15 13:36:28 <timeless> void *new;
Aug 15 13:36:33 * timeless doesn't like C
Aug 15 13:37:45 <timeless> kaie, stupid question
Aug 15 13:37:54 <timeless> is it opening files or just directories?
Aug 15 13:38:08 <timeless> from reading the code, it looked like it opened (recursively) folders
Aug 15 13:38:13 <timeless> from reading your log, i see the same thing
Aug 15 13:41:25 <kaie> let me look
Aug 15 13:41:38 <kaie> timeless, do you want the full strace file?
Aug 15 13:41:47 <timeless> not really
Aug 15 13:41:56 <timeless> i think i have both code blobs identified
Aug 15 13:42:48 <timeless> just a quick sanity check that it's only keeping dirs open would be good
Aug 15 13:42:57 <timeless> also, if you could figure out how it gets up to 12 files
Aug 15 13:42:58 <kaie> timeless, yes only folders it seems
Aug 15 13:43:05 <kaie> keep open?
Aug 15 13:43:07 <kaie> hmm
Aug 15 13:43:27 <timeless> because a quick look through the code shows it shouldnt' have more than one per path
Aug 15 13:43:33 <timeless> and that should based on your log only be a couple
Aug 15 13:43:41 <timeless> so i'm wondering where the *other* file handles are
Aug 15 13:43:46 <timeless> (should it have closed them too?)
Aug 15 13:43:47 <kaie> timeless, when it is stuck in the without file handles left, it will try to open folders, but only to lstat64 on files
Aug 15 13:44:37 <kaie> timeless, it appears it opened the same directory over and over again, without closing it
Aug 15 13:44:59 <kaie> /home/user/.purple/logs/irc/kaie2@irc.mozilla.org/
Aug 15 13:45:23 <kaie> 1000 times
Aug 15 13:45:46 <timeless> is this before or after your log snippets?
Aug 15 13:46:07 <kaie> my final log snippet is when it is already stuck without handles
Aug 15 13:46:28 <kaie> let me confirm what I put there
Aug 15 13:46:46 <kaie> timeless, search for = 1023 from the end
Aug 15 13:46:55 <kaie> that same directory gets opened 1000 more times before
Aug 15 13:47:05 <kaie> and after the =1023 it tries again and fails
Aug 15 13:47:08 <kaie> and it continues to try
Aug 15 13:48:36 <kaie> sometimes it is able to close 1 or 2 handles, but then it just opens the same thing
Aug 15 13:48:40 <kaie> and again...
Aug 15 13:48:58 <kaie> egrep -w "open|close" log-osso-backup-settings | less
Aug 15 13:49:03 <kaie> this is all about the same path
Aug 15 13:50:45 <timeless> kaie: sorry, i've lost your link
Aug 15 13:50:54 <kaie> what link? to the bug?
Aug 15 13:51:00 <kaie> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3588
Aug 15 13:51:09 <kaie> https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=873
Aug 15 13:51:15 <timeless> oh right, bugs
Aug 15 13:51:25 * timeless was looking for a pastebin
Aug 15 13:52:22 <timeless> oh, eww
Aug 15 13:52:24 * timeless frowns
Aug 15 13:52:28 <timeless> this code doesn't look good
Aug 15 13:53:11 <timeless> ok, i found one instance of a file handle leak
Aug 15 13:53:13 <timeless> absolutely clear
Aug 15 13:53:24 <timeless> andre__: if i confirm a bug, will you import it?
Aug 15 13:53:33 <andre__> yes
Aug 15 13:54:31 <timeless> kaie: confirmed. andre__: import :)
Aug 15 13:54:38 <andre__> err... you refer to a specific report here i guess. in general: no, not always :)
Aug 15 13:54:42 <andre__> hehe, ok
Aug 15 13:55:29 <timeless> andre__: i hate dealing w/ the internal bug tracking policies
Aug 15 13:55:50 <timeless> kaie: the clear leak is on a failure case which should only happen once
Aug 15 13:55:53 <timeless> it's not the core problem
Aug 15 13:55:58 <timeless> the possible loop is real
Aug 15 13:56:04 <timeless> and could explain the other things
Aug 15 13:56:45 <timeless> but i'm still not sure on the primary leak
Aug 15 13:56:54 * timeless is going to read some other code
Aug 15 13:57:28 <timeless> Setup a monitor. Note: those monitors are leaked on purpose
Aug 15 13:57:38 <timeless> hrm, that sounds promising :)
Aug 15 13:58:07 <timeless> (actually, it's in debug code, so it isn't interesting)
Aug 15 13:58:56 <timeless> eww
Aug 15 13:59:13 <brontide> that's not good.  more iky code
Aug 15 13:59:58 <brontide> If it were open source, we might have found this a while ago ;-)
Aug 15 14:00:54 <timeless> kaie: ok, my /guess/ is that g_dir_read_name will fail, and return a result which causes a loop
Aug 15 14:01:23 <kaie> congrats! sounds like you're very close to a fix
Aug 15 14:02:05 <timeless> well, i need to figure out if i'm really claiming this is a bug in gnomevfs
Aug 15 14:02:11 <timeless> (of course, that's EOLd)
Aug 15 14:02:48 <brontide> heh
Aug 15 14:03:16 <brontide> what's the replacement for gnomevfs... fuse?
Aug 15 14:03:28 <timeless> hrm, "this didn't work"
Aug 15 14:03:39 <Jaffa> brontide: GIO, isn't it?
Aug 15 14:04:09 <brontide> Silly name, but yes... that appears to be it
Aug 15 14:04:12 <timeless> http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/osso-gnome-vfs2-2.16.3/modules/file-method.c?mark=1052-1055,1085,1088-1091#1051
Aug 15 14:04:23 <timeless> kaie, ignore the fact that something's really wrong w/ the line listing
Aug 15 14:05:31 <timeless> imagine someone calls readdir and while it isn't EOF and while it isn't OK it keeps trying
Aug 15 14:08:15 <andre__> brontide, GIO within glib and the backends themselves are in gvfs
Aug 15 14:09:23 * lcuk hates code with more #ifdef ...#else ... #endif lines than code
Aug 15 14:10:16 <lcuk> timeless, readdir is only for win32 isnt it
Aug 15 14:10:17 <timeless> kaie: ok, i've fixed the collapsing thing
Aug 15 14:10:41 <lcuk> ahhh sorry backwards ;) told you i hate them
Aug 15 14:10:47 <timeless> lcuk: oops, so 1083 not 1085
Aug 15 14:10:58 <timeless> you're riight, i tagged the wrong line
Aug 15 14:11:05 <timeless> http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/osso-gnome-vfs2-2.16.3/modules/file-method.c?mark=1052-1055,1083,1088-1091#1051
Aug 15 14:12:21 <lcuk> timeless, does your IDE have the option to hide the #ifdef blocks, if so try it and see how much cleaner the code is
Aug 15 14:12:34 <timeless> i don't have an ide
Aug 15 14:12:37 <timeless> all i have is mxr :)
Aug 15 14:12:45 <timeless> what you're looking at is what i have
Aug 15 14:12:56 <timeless> mxr actually tries to balance ifdefs
Aug 15 14:12:59 <lcuk> and just some editor?
Aug 15 14:13:07 <timeless> notepad, firefox, vi, nano
Aug 15 14:13:27 <lcuk> it does, but for actual code tracing purposes, hiding the #ifdef blocks out of scope would make your life easier
Aug 15 14:13:52 <timeless> i should see about teaching mxr to let you style them hidden
Aug 15 14:14:22 <lcuk> yer - sounds reasonable, its so easy to glance up and read something from the wrong branch
Aug 15 14:14:42 <timeless> well, mxr doesn't know which branch to take
Aug 15 14:14:50 <timeless> but it could let you define a user style sheet which tells it
Aug 15 14:14:57 <timeless> or use jesse's live styles thing
Aug 15 14:15:09 <timeless> it could probably even give you checkboxes for turning on/off styles
Aug 15 14:15:12 <lcuk> thats why you let it be an option :P  just a ticksheet at the top for the #ifdef choices within?
Aug 15 14:15:16 <lcuk> :D
Aug 15 14:16:15 * lcuk runs back to wrk anyway
Aug 15 14:16:32 <lcuk> im gonna keep this mxr link open and investigate some more
Aug 15 14:19:51 <timeless> andre__/kaie: ok, bug filed
Aug 15 14:20:01 <timeless> that should explain the infinite loop
Aug 15 14:20:30 <kaie> great work :-)
Aug 15 14:20:40 <timeless> note that the code is not a verbatim copy, but it shouldn't take much effort for someone to find the internal code :)
Aug 15 14:20:51 <timeless> that still doesn't explain the hundreds of opens
Aug 15 14:21:18 <timeless> kaie: how big is the real log file?
Aug 15 14:21:50 <kaie> 5 mb, and I could probably cut off a lot of dupe lines at the end
Aug 15 14:22:00 <kaie> timeless, want it your email gmail account?
Aug 15 14:22:40 <timeless> yeah
Aug 15 14:23:03 <timeless> the sources are spread over ~20 files, it's well organized
Aug 15 14:23:12 <timeless> but not knowing it, being able to read through that strace will help
Aug 15 14:23:19 <timeless> there are a couple of passes
Aug 15 14:23:24 <timeless> i'm not sure how many yet :)
Aug 15 14:23:33 <timeless> there's definitely a "how much space will this thing take" pass
Aug 15 14:23:44 <timeless> and there's obviously an "archive it!" pass
Aug 15 14:23:54 <timeless> but i need to know which pass is actively being stupid
Aug 15 14:24:02 <kaie> sent
Aug 15 14:24:11 <timeless> btw, thanks for getting 443284 done
Aug 15 14:24:32 <kaie> you're welcome, still many to go on my to do list
Aug 15 14:24:52 <timeless> one thing though...
Aug 15 14:25:00 <timeless> hg makes it easy to assign ownership to changes
Aug 15 14:25:04 <timeless> so it's slightly better to do:
Aug 15 14:25:20 <timeless> hg commit -u timeless@mozdev.org -m "fixes from attachment XXX for bug YYY"
Aug 15 14:25:37 <timeless> hg commit -u that_other_guy -m "fixes from attachment XX2 for bug YYY"
Aug 15 14:25:40 <kaie> good to know, thx
Aug 15 14:25:42 <timeless> and then hg push the pair
Aug 15 14:25:49 <timeless> that way blame is assigned properly
Aug 15 14:25:53 <kaie> cool
Aug 15 14:25:53 <timeless> note that i don't believe in -m
Aug 15 14:26:06 <timeless> and for reference, @mozdev.org is the checkin address for me :)
Aug 15 14:26:16 <timeless> but don't try mailing me there, i don't read it
Aug 15 14:26:26 <timeless> (i can get it, but... it's gb's of unread data)
Aug 15 14:26:51 <timeless> dear spammers: i won't notice your spam in the bugmail sea so please don't bother sending mail to me
Aug 15 14:28:11 <aquatix> GB waster!
Aug 15 14:28:46 <timeless> aquatix: tell me about it
Aug 15 14:30:07 <timeless> hrm, mozillausers-central is only like ~10gb of data
Aug 15 14:30:15 <timeless> the browser itself is ~26gb
Aug 15 14:30:27 * timeless didn't realize how tiny the browser was :)
Aug 15 14:30:33 <timeless> err
Aug 15 14:30:35 <timeless> userscentral
Aug 15 14:30:36 * qwerty12 coughs :P
Aug 15 14:31:12 <timeless> qwerty12: http://mxr.maemo.org/garage-all/source/browser/mozilla/branches/
Aug 15 14:32:21 <qwerty12> :)
Aug 15 14:44:34 * timeless kicks firefox
Aug 15 14:44:44 <timeless> pasting multiple lines into the fast find bar doesn't seem to work very well
Aug 15 14:50:03 <qwerty12> Anyone recompiled cx3110x here?
Aug 15 14:55:14 <eichi_> i copied some files via usb to my maemo device, no i cant delete ur use them. via usb i got Stale NFS file handle and from the device itself i get I/O error trying to use this file
Aug 15 14:55:35 <crashanddie> qwerty12, recompiled ?
Aug 15 14:55:40 <crashanddie> qwerty12, do we have the sources then ?
Aug 15 14:55:52 <qwerty12> crashanddie: yes, cx3110x sources are open, umac sources are not
Aug 15 14:56:10 <crashanddie> cx3110x is the wifi part, right ?
Aug 15 14:56:54 * qwerty12 is trying to get PREMPT working: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=214068&postcount=10
Aug 15 14:57:05 <qwerty12> crashanddie: some of it. umac is part of it too afaik
Aug 15 14:57:37 <qwerty12> But you can do a lot with modifying cx3110x. ssvb has overclocked the wifi chip modifying the cx3110x source
Aug 15 15:00:33 <crashanddie> d'you think it'd be possible to hack it to support packet injection? :-°
Aug 15 15:01:32 <qwerty12> No idea :/
Aug 15 15:01:50 <crashanddie> qwerty12, http://www.london2600.org.uk/
Aug 15 15:01:54 <crashanddie> wait
Aug 15 15:02:32 <crashanddie> qwerty12, https://s.p10.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org.uk/ssl/meetings/2008/08/unoffical-midmonth-meeting-third-friday-of-the-month.html
Aug 15 15:02:39 <crashanddie> djeezus, what an URL
Aug 15 15:02:54 <qwerty12> I wish I could come :(
Aug 15 15:03:08 <crashanddie> You can't ?
Aug 15 15:03:10 <crashanddie> really can't ?
Aug 15 15:03:20 <qwerty12> Yep :(
Aug 15 15:07:01 <qwerty12> allnamesareout is brilliant.
Aug 15 15:07:06 <crashanddie> btw
Aug 15 15:07:09 <crashanddie> Google search fails
Aug 15 15:07:28 <crashanddie> trying to call the HR dude who contacted me a few days back
Aug 15 15:07:48 <crashanddie> "Welcome to Google, we are trying to find your correspondent, please hold the line"
Aug 15 15:08:23 <Proteous> yeah, all the google phone search inteligence went to the google411 department
Aug 15 15:08:34 <crashanddie> google411 ?
Aug 15 15:08:40 <Proteous> yes
Aug 15 15:09:00 <Proteous> google it
Aug 15 15:09:02 <crashanddie> oh, 1-800-GOOG-411
Aug 15 15:09:41 <timeless> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=647125&no_d2=1&cid=24614557 :)
Aug 15 15:13:32 <timeless> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=647125&no_d2=1&cid=24615027
Aug 15 15:14:23 <qwerty12> Any way to see if a kernel is PREEMPT without uname?
Aug 15 15:15:10 <zap> cat /proc/version ?
Aug 15 15:15:54 <qwerty12> zap: It returns the same thing as uname which is why I didn't suggest that.
Aug 15 15:21:49 <kaie> I heard the diable upgrade features a new email client. is it now able to support imap folders?
Aug 15 15:22:07 <kaie> but I might just try it out myself
Aug 15 15:22:15 <Jaffa> kaie: modest. Yes, it does IMAP much better.
Aug 15 15:22:23 <kaie> cool thanks. another question is whether the new client still supports s/mime
Aug 15 15:22:41 <Jaffa> IME you can't leave it unattended, though - it's pernickity and buggy in lots of little niggly ways.
Aug 15 15:23:04 <Jaffa> e.g. it's not doing *any* automated send/receive for me.
Aug 15 15:23:33 <kaie> I'll give it a try thx
Aug 15 15:27:47 <brontide> Modest does not do s/mime last I read
Aug 15 15:28:14 <brontide> haven't tried myself
Aug 15 15:28:24 <crashanddie> qwerty12, cat .config | grep -i preempt ?
Aug 15 15:28:53 <qwerty12> crashanddie: thanks, but I need a way of telling from the device.
Aug 15 15:28:58 <qwerty12> ~lart nokia's version magic
Aug 15 15:28:58 * infobot acting on orders from an unspecified client drags nokia's version magic into court suing for $200 million
Aug 15 15:29:37 <qwerty12> The kernel should be PREEMPT though, because the modules are bigger.
Aug 15 15:30:51 <crashanddie> preempt doesn't have anything to do with modules size
Aug 15 15:31:07 <crashanddie> well, not inherently
Aug 15 15:36:50 <qwerty12> nautilus really sucks
Aug 15 15:38:53 <summatusmentis> I think modest hates me
Aug 15 15:39:04 <summatusmentis> or it's my connection/huge gmail inbox
Aug 15 15:40:39 <brontide> qwerty12: could the errors be from the umac.ko binary driver?
Aug 15 15:40:53 <brontide> which is required for cx3110x
Aug 15 15:41:01 <Jaffa> summatusmentis: I think it hates me too, and my Gmail inbox has 20 items in it. https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3542 is particularly annoying: no auto send/receive.
Aug 15 15:41:16 <qwerty12> brontide: probably not as those errors were recieved while I was compiling the module as well
Aug 15 15:42:10 <qwerty12> I've given up on that method. I'm currently using a PREEMPT kernel with PREEMPT string removed and modules inside the initfs replaced with ones compiled from the PREEMPT kernel.
Aug 15 15:43:05 <brontide> egad
Aug 15 15:43:12 <crashanddie> qwerty12, /proc/sys/kernel/preemption
Aug 15 15:43:46 <crashanddie> and /proc/sys/kernel/voluntary-preemption
Aug 15 15:44:12 <qwerty12> crashanddie: thanks. Both of those files aren't there for me. Says it all >.<
Aug 15 15:44:18 <crashanddie> yeah
Aug 15 15:58:33 <qwerty12> crashanddie: I knew it! Even with a proper compiled PREEMPT kernel (Preempt is in the uname), those proc files still do not exist :)
Aug 15 15:58:36 <fredyrivera> hello
Aug 15 15:58:44 <fredyrivera> please any  sendme the url from  yahoo aerial repositories   to maemo-maps
Aug 15 15:59:17 <crashanddie> qwerty12, ah
Aug 15 15:59:21 <crashanddie> qwerty12, sorry then :-°
Aug 15 15:59:39 <qwerty12> No problems :)
Aug 15 16:00:11 <brontide> qwerty12: I suppose it would be too much to expect the preempt kernel to provide faster WiFi down speeds ( better than 750kB/s )
Aug 15 16:00:44 <pupnik> what causes the 750kB/s limit?
Aug 15 16:00:55 <qwerty12> brontide: got a link that works with wget that I can test with?
Aug 15 16:01:21 <qwerty12> (if its illegal, pm me, I don't care :P)
Aug 15 16:01:23 <brontide> how fast is your upstream?
Aug 15 16:01:44 <lardman> fredyrivera: you looked at the thread on itt?
Aug 15 16:02:08 <qwerty12> brontide: around ~450 kbps
Aug 15 16:02:26 * moontiger lurks
Aug 15 16:02:27 <qwerty12> Oops, do you mean upstream as in download speed?
Aug 15 16:02:36 <brontide> ya
Aug 15 16:03:01 <qwerty12> http://www.speedtest.net/result/309490502.png
Aug 15 16:03:43 <brontide> that won't help then 6920kbps = 865kB/s
Aug 15 16:04:00 <brontide> I'm already getting 750kB/s = 6000kbps
Aug 15 16:04:20 <fredyrivera> lardman: there is a thread for maemo-mapper?
Aug 15 16:06:06 <lardman> fredyrivera: yes, one which lists the urls of various repos
Aug 15 16:08:21 <jott> brontide: qwerty12: just use a local web server or something like iperf to test throughput.
Aug 15 16:08:41 <fredyrivera> I saw this: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=207241, but the yaerial repositorie is not right
Aug 15 16:08:50 <crashanddie> lardman, how's the IPC going ?
Aug 15 16:10:11 <lardman> crashanddie: been to clinic for an eye test, so not done much, and can't focus very well now :)
Aug 15 16:10:32 <crashanddie> literally
Aug 15 16:10:37 <lardman> crashanddie: am sat in dark room with sunglasses on as screen is far too white :)
Aug 15 16:10:56 <lardman> but have found some methods to perform piping between tasks, so am happy
Aug 15 16:11:03 <qwerty12> lardman: in windows?
Aug 15 16:11:20 <lardman> qwerty12: screen or piping?
Aug 15 16:11:59 <lardman> crashanddie: just need to finish either tremor or mp3 task, then can test piping directly to the sbc task :)
Aug 15 16:12:01 <qwerty12> lardman: screen :). Sorry, I should rephrase myself to make it sound like a proper question :). Are you in windows at the moment? :)
Aug 15 16:12:09 <qwerty12> Oh, I guess not :)
Aug 15 16:12:21 <lardman> qwerty12: yes, but will reboot to Linux in a mo so I can program
Aug 15 16:12:32 * lardman had to tweak a paper
Aug 15 16:12:37 <qwerty12> oh. press alt-shift-print screen :D
Aug 15 16:12:49 <lardman> what does that do?
Aug 15 16:13:00 <qwerty12> Sets windows in high contrast mode :). I do it for a joke but it may actually be useful in this case.
Aug 15 16:13:13 <lardman> ah I see
Aug 15 16:13:33 <lardman> no, my irises are just dilated so everything is very very bright
Aug 15 16:13:53 <qwerty12> ah :(
Aug 15 16:14:00 <lardman> polarised sunglasses + lcd screens gives infinitely variable brightness anyway :)
Aug 15 16:14:14 <lardman> + sore neck
Aug 15 16:14:46 <qwerty12> :). My linux partition keeps corrupting itself :D. I've ran fsck 5 times this morning :/
Aug 15 16:15:44 <lardman> If any hackers out there want to figure out the EAP calls which the various tasks make to output audio on the DSP, that would be useful as another sink method
Aug 15 16:15:57 <crashanddie> I'm out guys, London 2600, later !
Aug 15 16:16:24 <qwerty12> Heh, see ya crashanddie
Aug 15 16:17:02 <skibur> how do I like xlibs using gcc?
Aug 15 16:17:23 * qwerty12 doesn't need gcc to like them
Aug 15 16:18:08 <skibur> :)
Aug 15 16:18:14 <skibur> link, sorry
Aug 15 16:18:15 <skibur> lol
Aug 15 16:18:30 <skibur> -lx ?
Aug 15 16:18:41 <skibur> gcc file.c -o file -lx ?
Aug 15 16:18:46 <skibur> -lxlib ?
Aug 15 16:19:56 <lardman> -lX
Aug 15 16:20:14 <lardman> though you may need other X11 related libs too
Aug 15 16:21:57 <lardman> perhaps look at some of the existing maemo source code to see what they use?
Aug 15 16:22:32 <lardman> e.g. the tutorial hello world app, etc.
Aug 15 16:22:40 <pupnik> lardman: do you have a blog?
Aug 15 16:22:50 <lardman> pupnik: yes, but I don't use it
Aug 15 16:22:55 <lardman> :)
Aug 15 16:23:17 <pupnik> might help to aggregate info for others to follow and extend your work
Aug 15 16:23:38 <lardman> well I post to the maemo-dev list
Aug 15 16:23:49 <lardman> and if people are intersted, all they need do is ask me
Aug 15 16:23:50 <pupnik> ok you're right
Aug 15 16:24:05 <pupnik> maemo-dev yields search results
Aug 15 16:24:18 * pupnik listening to an amazing interview with Ray McGovern
Aug 15 16:24:42 <pupnik> Amazing show today: interviews with Ray McGovern, Pat Buchanan, Joe Lauria and Gordon Prather!    http://thestressblog.com/2008/08/15/the-show-242/  Stream playlist: http://kaosradioaustin.org:8959/kaos-64.m3u
Aug 15 16:29:19 <lardman> bbiam, need to reboot
Aug 15 16:31:03 <lbt> how do I edit the homepage for a garage project?
Aug 15 16:31:32 <lbt> http://shopper.garage.maemo.org/
Aug 15 16:31:49 <lbt> (It would be very sensible if that page actually told me!!)
Aug 15 16:33:55 <lbt> OK - another autobuilder one... checking for MAEMOMM... configure: error: Package requirements (hildonmm >= 0.9.6 hildon-fmmm >= 0.9.6) were not met:
Aug 15 16:34:20 <lbt> I thought the autobuilder pulled in dependencies?
Aug 15 16:35:18 <melmoth> lbt create a /web (or /www) directory in your subvrsion repo
Aug 15 16:35:30 <melmoth> or is it html ?
Aug 15 16:35:32 <jott> lbt: it should be enough to put stuff in /www in the svn.
Aug 15 16:35:53 <lbt> OK - I use git back here so I hadn't bothered with svn
Aug 15 16:36:05 <jott> and autobuilder pulls the dependencies defined in your control file (or those that where automatically generated).
Aug 15 16:36:06 <lbt> will do
Aug 15 16:36:25 <jott> you seem to miss libhildonmm (or what ever the package is called)
Aug 15 16:37:16 <lbt> ok - looking at the logs now
Aug 15 16:37:56 <jott> lbt: add libhildonmm-dev to Build-Depends
Aug 15 16:38:08 <lbt> dpkg-buildpackage and autoconf pull this stuff together
Aug 15 16:38:17 <lbt> but not all of it apparently...
Aug 15 16:38:56 <jott> lbt: you have to define it in the build-depends.
Aug 15 16:39:02 <lbt> my debian/control file
Aug 15 16:39:06 <jott> the runtime dependecies are calculated automatically
Aug 15 16:39:08 <lbt> yep, hmm
Aug 15 16:39:11 <lbt> gotcha
Aug 15 16:39:19 <lbt> I saw the autoconf for Depends
Aug 15 16:39:20 <jott> if you add "${shlibs:Depends}" to your depends
Aug 15 16:39:27 <lbt> but it's not Build-Depends is it...
Aug 15 16:39:56 <jott> build-depends are the packages autobuilder fetches, so make sure all needed packages are declared
Aug 15 16:39:57 <lbt> configure.ac has PKG_CHECK_MODULES(MAEMOMM, hildonmm >= 0.9.6 hildon-fmmm >= 0.9.6)
Aug 15 16:40:16 <lbt> it should be bright enough to update Build-Depends from that!
Aug 15 16:40:28 <jott> blame debian guys :)
Aug 15 16:40:37 <lbt> !lart Debian guys
Aug 15 16:40:41 <lbt> ~lart Debian guys
Aug 15 16:40:42 * infobot stamps Debian guys on the forehead with the official Troll marker
Aug 15 16:40:44 <lbt> :D
Aug 15 16:40:59 <lbt> ok - I'll try again... thanks
Aug 15 16:43:48 <lbt> does PKG_CHECK_MODULES(MAEMOMM, hildonmm >= 0.9.6  translate to Build-Depends: libhildonmm-dev (>= 0.9.6)
Aug 15 16:44:07 <jott> hm yes, should be right.
Aug 15 16:45:46 <lbt> sorry for the nagging but.... having screwed up the control file, do I ++ the version?
Aug 15 16:45:53 <lbt> or only on a good build
Aug 15 16:46:00 <jott> yes, always do.
Aug 15 16:46:24 <lbt> this could get mature really quickly
Aug 15 16:46:39 <jott> ah you can separate package and application version numbers.
Aug 15 16:47:25 <jott> like append things as "-1maemo0" "-1maemo1" etc.
Aug 15 16:47:39 <lbt> in the Changelog
Aug 15 16:47:41 <jott> or just "-1" "-2"
Aug 15 16:47:43 <jott> right.
Aug 15 16:51:37 <lbt> I tweaked https://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras#Upload_the_package if anyone would like to double check
Aug 15 16:54:05 <RST38h> back
Aug 15 16:54:19 <CptLaptop> front
Aug 15 16:54:29 <lbt> you see, I resisted that!
Aug 15 16:54:41 * lbt feels smug
Aug 15 16:58:20 <lbt> I'm a little confused about the upload process for free packages... I seem to need to build i386 and armel debs and sign the i386&armel changes
Aug 15 16:58:25 <lbt> and then upload the src
Aug 15 16:58:36 <lbt> shouldn't I sign the shopper_0.3.1_source.changes
Aug 15 17:05:06 <lardman> Garage down again?
Aug 15 17:07:18 <lbt> doesn't seem to be
Aug 15 17:14:02 <lbt> I can confirm that the autobuilder FAIL email subsystem is working fine. I'm really banging on it :D
Aug 15 17:24:18 <lardman> lbt: just very slow svn, no worries
Aug 15 17:24:54 <lbt> probably 'cos it's building Shopper
Aug 15 17:24:59 <lbt> and succeeding :)
Aug 15 17:25:08 <lbt> https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/shopper_0.3.2/
Aug 15 17:25:54 <lbt> now where do they go? I want to try and pull them onto my test mmc
Aug 15 17:26:48 <jott> lbt: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/s/ it should come up here.
Aug 15 17:27:11 <lbt> so add 'extras-devel' to the appmgr?
Aug 15 17:27:48 <jott> for example. but keep in mind that extra-devel may contain dangerous packages that break your system.
Aug 15 17:27:51 <lbt> jott: automatically - or human queue?
Aug 15 17:28:06 <jott> extra-devel should be automatic :)
Aug 15 17:28:25 <lbt> OK
Aug 15 17:28:55 <lbt> I'm doing the chinook build now - and seeing if Shopper works there...
Aug 15 17:38:49 <timely> andre__: one more for you to send instream :)
Aug 15 17:42:03 <moontiger> what is shopper?
Aug 15 17:42:55 <pope523> Can someone help me with Canola2?
Aug 15 17:50:25 <RST38h> Gentlemen, could someone do ls -l /etc/alternatives/python for me?
Aug 15 17:50:46 <RST38h> It looks like Python Launcher changes this link and does not restore it when uninstalling
Aug 15 17:51:34 <johnx> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           18 Jun 28 03:48 /etc/alternatives/python -> /usr/bin/python2.5
Aug 15 17:51:48 <RST38h> aha, thanks!
Aug 15 18:01:09 <luck^> RST38h, please file a bug at pylauncher's bugzilla.. I'm a bit busy right now but I'll take a look on this. I remember that update-alternatives isn't fully functional on Maemo
Aug 15 18:01:38 <timely> luck^: is that one of the things responsible for breaking microb?
Aug 15 18:02:10 <timely> people said one of those py things installed a /scratchbox directory onto the device
Aug 15 18:03:07 <luck^> timely, I don't about this problem :(
Aug 15 18:09:11 <RST38h> luck: ok
Aug 15 18:40:06 <GeneralAntilles> Actually, um, the unofficial bootloader CAN affect the rest of the system when the initfs is updated, lcuk.
Aug 15 18:40:50 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, are you replying to a thread from this mornin gen?
Aug 15 18:40:54 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
Aug 15 18:40:57 <lcuk> heh
Aug 15 18:40:59 <GeneralAntilles> Stuck in scrollback
Aug 15 18:41:02 <GeneralAntilles> Many you whiners spam a lot.
Aug 15 18:41:04 <lcuk> yes
Aug 15 18:41:08 <GeneralAntilles> s/Many/Man/
Aug 15 18:41:08 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Man you whiners spam a lot.
Aug 15 18:41:28 <GeneralAntilles> Important things like bme and dsme are on initfs
Aug 15 18:41:38 <lcuk> yer thats ok, not important
Aug 15 18:41:46 <GeneralAntilles> Which could lead to Bad Things if they're not updated properly with the rest of the system.
Aug 15 18:41:59 <lcuk> subject was transitory and not my forte anyway - im sticking with the default system :)
Aug 15 18:42:11 <GeneralAntilles> So, basically, what you're ACTUALLY after is a regular old package upgrade system for the initfs
Aug 15 18:42:22 <GeneralAntilles> which would be quite nice, but I don't think it would be stable enough.
Aug 15 18:42:41 <lcuk> you are just posting to increase your line count
Aug 15 18:42:47 <lcuk> to catch up with me incase karma counts :P
Aug 15 18:42:52 <lcuk> but it wont work you know
Aug 15 18:42:56 <lcuk> cos i can type quick :P
Aug 15 18:43:57 <RST38h> You are all posting to increase your line counts!
Aug 15 18:44:48 * GeneralAntilles rolleyes
Aug 15 18:44:58 <AStorm> RST38h: surely ;P
Aug 15 18:45:43 <RST38h> Karma whores! May Cthulhu suck your collective brains through a huge straw!
Aug 15 18:47:24 <RST38h> May He feast on your flesh sauteed with peanut butter!
Aug 15 18:50:07 <lbt> lcuk: Shopper is in Chinook extras-devel :)
Aug 15 18:50:14 <lcuk> lbt! nice
Aug 15 18:50:36 <lcuk> ill take a look once i do this step
Aug 15 18:50:44 <AStorm> RST38h: mmmh, peanut butter
Aug 15 18:50:48 <lbt> just dl'ed onto my test chinook and it worked (no logo though)
Aug 15 18:51:04 <lbt> s/logo/icon/
Aug 15 18:51:04 <infobot> lbt meant: just dl'ed onto my test chinook and it worked (no icon though)
Aug 15 18:51:21 <lbt> ok bbl
Aug 15 18:57:32 <GeneralAntilles> lbt, the "(always/sometimes/once)" line needs to be DELETED and filled out. . . .
Aug 15 18:58:48 * GeneralAntilles is caught up on the IRC backlog, moves on to the next one.
Aug 15 19:03:17 <GeneralAntilles> I like how people getting the MicroB "out of memory" error were claiming completely fresh installs of Diablo and 30-2
Aug 15 19:10:05 <egypt> infobot: what language are you written in?
Aug 15 19:10:06 <lbt> GeneralAntilles: yeah - I realised that - but bugzilla isn't a wiki and it wasn't worth another post :)
Aug 15 19:10:07 <infobot> egypt: what are you talking about?
Aug 15 19:10:34 <egypt> s///
Aug 15 19:10:44 <GeneralAntilles> lbt, just for future notice. :)
Aug 15 19:10:47 <egypt> s/s//
Aug 15 19:11:03 * egypt pokes infobot 
Aug 15 19:11:22 <egypt> perl?
Aug 15 19:11:31 <egypt> s/perl/python/
Aug 15 19:11:31 <infobot> egypt meant: python?
Aug 15 19:11:40 <lbt> egypt: python judging by the functionality...
Aug 15 19:11:47 <egypt> s/perl/ruby/
Aug 15 19:11:47 <infobot> egypt meant: ruby?
Aug 15 19:11:47 <lbt> ;)
Aug 15 19:11:51 <egypt> =)
Aug 15 19:12:10 <egypt> s/perl/exit/e
Aug 15 19:12:39 <AStorm> s/perl/telinit S/
Aug 15 19:13:26 <egypt> hmm
Aug 15 19:13:34 <egypt> s/hmm/system('ls')/e
Aug 15 19:13:47 <RST38h> May you all program in MUMPS until Cthulhu finally eats you with ketchup
Aug 15 19:14:26 <lbt> I'd appreciate if people could try Shopper (in extras-devel) and let me have comments... (some of which are on my todo anyhow)
Aug 15 19:21:38 <mikkov_> lbt: how does shopper work? It prompts me to open file. What file? ;)
Aug 15 19:21:55 <lbt> yep - that's one thing :)
Aug 15 19:21:58 <lbt> press Cancel
Aug 15 19:22:05 <lbt> it doesn't have a list
Aug 15 19:22:06 <mikkov_> ah
Aug 15 19:22:08 <lbt> and is asking for one
Aug 15 19:22:12 <mikkov_> let's see
Aug 15 19:22:18 <egypt> infobot: are you still alive?
Aug 15 19:22:30 <lbt> egypt: leave her alone
Aug 15 19:22:41 <lcuk> are irc channels publically listed by default?
Aug 15 19:23:42 <egypt> fair enough
Aug 15 19:25:06 <egypt> lcuk: yes, but /list on freenode is a bad idea
Aug 15 19:25:37 <mikkov_> lbt: adding a note to item crashes Shopper
Aug 15 19:25:41 <lcuk> egypt, thanks, thats not what i was thinking of - im testing a bot and i dont really want ppl barging in whilst im in a compromising position
Aug 15 19:25:52 <lbt> do you have an 810?
Aug 15 19:25:58 <mikkov_> n800
Aug 15 19:26:02 <lbt> did you press <return>
Aug 15 19:26:08 <mikkov_> yes
Aug 15 19:26:29 <lbt> I think it's a bug in the gtkmm library handling the virtual keyboard
Aug 15 19:26:33 <egypt> lcuk: cool.  don't pass regexes directly from the user.  =)
Aug 15 19:26:34 <lbt> I'm working on it
Aug 15 19:26:56 <lbt> you can just click elsewhere
Aug 15 19:27:18 <mikkov_> yeah, not pressing return works
Aug 15 19:27:19 <lbt> AFAIK that's the only way to crash it at the moment - happy if you find others...
Aug 15 19:27:30 <lcuk> egypt, do not plan on doing - i want interactive whiteboards with n8x0 and i think an irc chan happens to make a nice host for the kind of data
Aug 15 19:27:32 <lbt> essentially it wants to lose focus
Aug 15 19:27:39 <lcuk> and they already have the server capabilities
Aug 15 19:28:04 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk /mode #channel +i
Aug 15 19:28:18 <mikkov_> lbt: full screen button doesn't work (you probably knew this)
Aug 15 19:28:33 <lbt> the icon in bottom left does though
Aug 15 19:28:36 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, :) font of knowledge, thanks
Aug 15 19:28:45 <lbt> bottom right
Aug 15 19:28:47 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, check out the IRC operator's handbook
Aug 15 19:28:52 <GeneralAntilles> It covers most of the relevant channel modes
Aug 15 19:28:54 <lcuk> yer i know ;)
Aug 15 19:29:00 <lcuk> ive jumped in at the deep end again
Aug 15 19:29:07 <GeneralAntilles> +s secret
Aug 15 19:30:34 <GeneralAntilles> timeless, not hugely positive progress on getting Peter into bugzilla
Aug 15 19:30:59 * lcuk wonders how hes gonna get binary images down the wire
Aug 15 19:31:19 <lbt> uuencode
Aug 15 19:31:30 <lbt> worked for nntp
Aug 15 19:31:36 <lbt> mmm alt.
Aug 15 19:31:52 <lcuk> im thinking more bandwidth and speed considerations
Aug 15 19:32:05 <egypt> base64 is smaller than uuencode isn't it?
Aug 15 19:32:22 <egypt> base64 increases the size of data by about one third
Aug 15 19:32:27 <lcuk> the protocol isnt so important yet
Aug 15 19:32:36 <lcuk> depending upon the source data of course
Aug 15 19:34:39 <mikkov_> lbt: another crash, items->Edit Category->quick double tap on category->crash
Aug 15 19:35:15 <lbt> ooh - that's new - confirmed :)
Aug 15 19:35:36 <iXce> hmm, may I use the pidgin at http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/pidgin/ on diablo?
Aug 15 19:36:14 * GeneralAntilles is just getting through Gmail.
Aug 15 19:36:23 <RST38h> es
Aug 15 19:36:25 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Aug 15 19:36:30 <GeneralAntilles> dneary hatin' on IRC
Aug 15 19:36:30 <RST38h> yes
Aug 15 19:36:37 * GeneralAntilles starts an essay.
Aug 15 19:36:42 <RST38h> what did dneary do?
Aug 15 19:36:44 <iXce> oh yeah, and is it normal that the default diablo mail application badly freezes when using a gmail account?
Aug 15 19:36:47 <lbt> dissed irc
Aug 15 19:37:07 <lbt> we'z a bunch of l0s3rs
Aug 15 19:37:20 <lbt> ;)
Aug 15 19:37:35 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, sign up for -community already. :P
Aug 15 19:37:36 <toma> is the mail client in the last firmware open source?
Aug 15 19:39:15 <GeneralAntilles> toma, yes.
Aug 15 19:39:40 <toma> GeneralAntilles: what's the package name?
Aug 15 19:40:51 <GeneralAntilles> https://garage.maemo.org/projects/modest/
Aug 15 19:41:03 <GeneralAntilles> http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/modest-1.0-2008.23/
Aug 15 19:41:46 <toma> thanks
Aug 15 19:50:36 <lbt> mikkov_: thanks for the Shopper help - I've noted them down :)
Aug 15 19:57:10 <GeneralAntilles> Alright, sent my pro-IRC email off.
Aug 15 19:59:58 <mikkov_> lbt: no problem ;)
Aug 15 20:00:08 * GeneralAntilles is wondering whether he should invest any time in working on the wiki style or just let the INdT guys handle it.
Aug 15 20:02:38 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, thats a really good mail :)(
Aug 15 20:02:43 <lcuk> -(
Aug 15 20:03:06 <GeneralAntilles> IRC has been a very significant part of my participation in the Maemo community.
Aug 15 20:03:14 <lcuk> yes
Aug 15 20:03:30 <GeneralAntilles> Both in getting me involved in the first place and how I'm involved now.
Aug 15 20:06:34 <RST38h> GAN: I have enough incoming information in the shape of the war news at the moment
Aug 15 20:06:57 <RST38h> GAN: Adding Maemo flame wars to the incoming data stream feels somehow excessive
Aug 15 20:14:53 <kkrusty> do the n800 and n810 offer the same performance?
Aug 15 20:19:05 <RST38h> all right, on to fixing the hildon menus in sr
Aug 15 20:19:10 <dougt> kkrusty: we haven't noticed any great perf bump
Aug 15 20:19:47 <dougt> kkrusty: the n810 runs a bit faster iirc, but the n800 also got that bump in a diablo?
Aug 15 20:20:14 <GeneralAntilles> kkrusty, they're the same inside
Aug 15 20:20:22 <GeneralAntilles> They're both OMAP2420
Aug 15 20:20:30 <GeneralAntilles> There's no difference between the two given the same software set
Aug 15 20:20:43 <GeneralAntilles> The N810 would run at 330MHz, too, if you installed OS2007 on it.
Aug 15 20:21:04 <dougt> so, you upgrade and you go to 400?
Aug 15 20:21:05 <RST38h> hardware is identical
Aug 15 20:21:11 <GeneralAntilles> ^
Aug 15 20:21:24 <GeneralAntilles> N810 has the keyboard, transflective screen, GPS, and miniSD
Aug 15 20:21:25 <RST38h> dougt: upgraded system *can* pump it up to 400
Aug 15 20:21:46 <GeneralAntilles> dougt, installing OS2008 on an N800 brings it to 400MHz
Aug 15 20:21:49 <GeneralAntilles> max
Aug 15 20:22:01 <RST38h> dougt: it does not mean it *will* do so on permanent basis, but it may, if there is demand
Aug 15 20:22:17 <dougt> gotcha
Aug 15 20:23:02 <joshin> Too bad that it won't do the same thing on a 770.  :p
Aug 15 20:23:24 <joshin> Or as high as the 770 has a chance of still working.  :)
Aug 15 20:23:49 <GeneralAntilles> 770 is already past its rated MHz
Aug 15 20:25:08 <GeneralAntilles> Rated for 220MHz, running at 252MHz
Aug 15 20:25:20 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia got speed-sorted OMAP1710's, I suppose.
Aug 15 20:25:58 <RST38h> can I pleas speed up my E70 to 252MHz? =)
Aug 15 20:26:17 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, idontdosymbian
Aug 15 20:26:19 <joshin> I know.  I'd love to see if I could push the 770 further.
Aug 15 20:26:35 <RST38h> toobad
Aug 15 20:26:38 <GeneralAntilles> Likely not without breaking things.
Aug 15 20:26:53 <joshin> Nope but it would give me an excuse for a 810.
Aug 15 20:27:07 <GeneralAntilles> The memory timings seem to be a bit dependent on the core speed on these SoCs.
Aug 15 20:27:15 <GeneralAntilles> You need an excuse? :P
Aug 15 20:27:45 <joshin> Not really but I'm still generally enjoying my 770's.  (I have 3)
Aug 15 20:28:33 <GeneralAntilles> The OMAP2 devices are like a whole new world.
Aug 15 20:28:40 <GeneralAntilles> They're lightyears beyond the 770.
Aug 15 20:29:27 <joshin> I know.  They're much better.  I'll probably be ordering a Beagleboard soon and then either a 810 or a Pandora
Aug 15 20:29:39 <RST38h> memory is timed separately
Aug 15 20:29:56 <RST38h> a standard arm-based soc will have at least 4 clock settings
Aug 15 20:29:57 * GeneralAntilles is so stoked for the Beagle.
Aug 15 20:30:08 <RST38h> master, cpu, sdram bus, ahb bus
Aug 15 20:30:26 <RST38h> ahb is for flash and peripherals, so it is of less importance
Aug 15 20:30:28 <GeneralAntilles> Holy hell, they're AVAILABLE?!
Aug 15 20:30:39 * GeneralAntilles buy-buy-buys
Aug 15 20:30:53 <joshin> Yeah, they've been shipping for a few weeks or so.
Aug 15 20:31:02 * GeneralAntilles wonders how he missed that.
Aug 15 20:31:38 <pupnik> anybody here have a beagleboard yet?
Aug 15 20:32:01 * pupnik saw the footage of one running OS2007 
Aug 15 20:32:16 <pupnik> or 2008, i forgot
Aug 15 20:32:35 <kkrusty> GeneralAntilles: sorry I just went away for a while. I actually gave away my N800. Now Im either going to buy a N810 or wait for something new to come up
Aug 15 20:35:20 <joshin> I can't wait to see what sort of ideas people come up with to expand one.
Aug 15 20:35:49 <GeneralAntilles> They're advertising OpenGL support
Aug 15 20:36:26 <joshin> I was thinking more of lots of storage and fast networking.
Aug 15 20:36:43 <joshin> I need to read up on the expansion bus.
Aug 15 20:38:54 <GeneralAntilles> Well, it's on backorder
Aug 15 20:39:16 <GeneralAntilles> joshin, sorry, the OpenGL statement was unrelated to your statement
Aug 15 20:39:32 <GeneralAntilles> I merely brought it up because the PowerVR drivers were somewhat in question.
Aug 15 20:40:48 <joshin> Yup. We're all drooling over it together.  ;)
Aug 15 20:41:43 <GeneralAntilles> Let's hope they get some in soon.
Aug 15 20:41:52 <GeneralAntilles> I dunno quite what I'm going to do with mine yet.
Aug 15 20:41:59 <GeneralAntilles> But damn is that a hot piece of hardware
Aug 15 20:41:59 <zap> how the beagleboard guys solved the problem with the 3D accelerator>
Aug 15 20:42:00 <zap> ?
Aug 15 20:42:09 <GeneralAntilles> zap, real drivers. . . .
Aug 15 20:42:24 <zap> real drivers - closed source binary blob?
Aug 15 20:43:36 <GeneralAntilles> Presumably.
Aug 15 20:43:52 <GeneralAntilles> There's pretty much no way Imagination Tech is opening their drivers.
Aug 15 20:43:54 <pupnik> np Fila Brazillia - Slow Light  (genius!)
Aug 15 20:43:55 * joshin goes to join #beagle on this here freenode
Aug 15 20:44:00 <GeneralAntilles> But, uh, #beagle for some real info
Aug 15 20:44:04 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Aug 15 20:49:00 <lbt> night all
Aug 15 20:49:14 <n800n> airshow ;/
Aug 15 20:49:21 <n800n> loud as hell
Aug 15 20:51:10 <pupnik> if there's an accident, don't forget to say 'oh, the humanity!'
Aug 15 20:51:31 <n800n> cool
Aug 15 20:53:27 <n800n> f22 s are pretty amazing
Aug 15 20:53:38 <n800n> just saw one by accident
Aug 15 20:55:38 <n800n> looked like it was stalling 100 ft above the lake
Aug 15 20:55:49 <n800n> then took off straight up
Aug 15 20:56:29 <n800n> i'm sure the dude's swallowed a bit of his own brain
Aug 15 20:58:03 <n800n> there was a petition last year to move it elsewhere and it worked so well now it's 3 days instead of 2
Aug 15 20:59:45 * pupnik prepares his fembot army
Aug 15 20:59:49 <pupnik> oops, ignore that
Aug 15 21:00:28 <RST38h> kill kill destroy
Aug 15 21:00:58 <RST38h> why would gtk+ crash with floating point exception (!) when I click on the menu icon?
Aug 15 21:01:18 <pupnik> http://www.robots.artfxstudios.com/photo_album4.html  << FemBots from the Bionic Woman (scared me to nightmares as a kid)
Aug 15 21:04:00 <RST38h> Hillary was the original fembot though
Aug 15 21:04:08 <pupnik> hahahahahaha
Aug 15 21:23:18 <flo_lap> re
Aug 15 21:38:44 <bef0rd> er
Aug 15 21:45:21 <Proteous> humina humina
Aug 15 21:52:37 <RST38h> hildon menu problem fixed!
Aug 15 21:56:41 <bef0rd> RST38h, have you tried getting the 'menu' key working? it doesn't popup the menu on ines
Aug 15 22:01:33 <RST38h> bef0rd: it is not a bug. it is a feature.
Aug 15 22:01:45 <RST38h> "menu" button works as fast-forward in my emulators
Aug 15 22:01:51 <bef0rd> ohh
Aug 15 22:10:09 <chrisa_> Hey All, anybody got time to answer a silly question from a complete newbie?
Aug 15 22:11:57 <chrisa_> I want to start developing on maemo using python and I was wondering how easy it would be to use a orm like sqlalchemy or sqlobject.
Aug 15 22:15:27 <lmoura> chrisa_, there's also storm
Aug 15 22:49:21 <chrisa_> thanks lmoura, so there isn't any difficulty deploying the application and it's dependancies?
Aug 15 22:49:49 <lmoura> AFAIK, no, as storm is available for maemo
Aug 15 22:51:21 <chrisa_> thanks again, I am pretty familiar with these tools and libs, I am just brand spanking new to maemo.
Aug 15 22:52:12 <pupnik> well you've come to the right place for ... er wait.  no this isn't that ..nm
Aug 15 23:11:46 <jott> *yawn*
Aug 15 23:16:59 * pupnik tosses jott a brew
Aug 15 23:17:19 <pupnik> #maemo-stammtisch is now open for bizness
Aug 15 23:47:17 <GeneralAntilles> Hopefully this backordered Beagle comes in sooner than later.
Aug 15 23:49:16 <iXce> one more stupid question: is it safe to use chinook extras repos on diablo? (or should I rather try porting chinook packages to diablo?)
Aug 15 23:51:01 <jott> iXce: it "should" be safe, but it would be even better to bring the missing packages to diablo extras :)
Aug 15 23:51:38 <iXce> okai :)
Aug 15 23:52:09 <iXce> gettin scratchbox up & running takes ages :(
Aug 15 23:52:49 <jott> on debian based 32bit systems it's straight forward :)
Aug 15 23:54:18 <iXce> it's definitely super easy, but it takes time to be done (downloading + installing packages)
Aug 15 23:55:12 <jott> wax your modem :P
Aug 15 23:55:27 <iXce> and my hard drive disk :p
Aug 16 00:00:54 <lardman> night all
Aug 16 00:10:32 <pupnik> got a nice new online game port candidate
Aug 16 00:10:47 <pupnik> online role playing and space conquest games:  http://www.armchairarcade.com/neo/node/1396
Aug 16 00:18:41 <chrisa_> Anybody had any luck running scratchbox in a vm?  I run a 64 bit linux and it seem like it would be much easier to just use a vm.
Aug 16 00:19:14 <bef0rd> there is already a vm available with sbox installed
Aug 16 00:19:29 <jott> but a chroot would be easier and faster i guess..
Aug 16 00:19:42 <jott> well easier is arguable :)
Aug 16 00:19:59 * bef0rd tries to guess the url
Aug 16 00:20:05 <bef0rd> maemo-vm.garage.maemo.org
Aug 16 00:20:19 <bef0rd> nop, failed
Aug 16 00:20:22 <jott> maemovmware.garage.org :)
Aug 16 00:22:01 <nelson> my n810's charging circuit went wonky.
Aug 16 00:22:14 <nelson> had to pull the battery for many hours.
Aug 16 00:22:21 <nelson> known problem?
Aug 16 00:26:02 <iXce> mm, is screen rotation going to be included in a future official kernel?
Aug 16 00:27:57 <bef0rd> there is a bug on bugzilla.maemo.org asking to get it included
Aug 16 00:28:07 <iXce> okai thanks
Aug 16 00:28:15 <bef0rd> I suppose, the more people to vote it, there are more possibilities
Aug 16 00:28:27 <iXce> yeah, I'm going to find it and vote for it :)
Aug 16 00:29:32 <jott> iXce: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3519
Aug 16 00:30:12 <iXce> thanks :) (I had found it myself, there are only two bugs which match "rotation")
Aug 16 00:31:26 * bef0rd is going to vote it too
Aug 16 00:33:15 <bef0rd> Total votes: 12
Aug 16 00:38:45 <bef0rd> jott could add a little update on his site to make the people vote for the bug :p
Aug 16 00:42:30 <iXce> hm, to port a package from chinook to diablo, all I have to do is ensure it and its dependencies build and actually work, bump their package version for diablo and submit them to the extras builder, and in case there's a problem fix it, right?
Aug 16 00:45:17 <nomis> iXce: yes.
Aug 16 00:45:58 <iXce> kai thanks
Aug 16 00:52:06 <Kegetys> hm, why does omweather update ask you to restart the device
Aug 16 01:02:22 <jott> bef0rd: i linked the bug on my original page :)
Aug 16 01:07:17 <bef0rd> jott, isn't this your site http://sse2.net/rotate/?
Aug 16 01:07:23 <jott> yes
Aug 16 01:08:26 <bef0rd> oh, I meant that one hehe, since its the first result for "maemo screen rotation" :P
Aug 16 01:10:10 <jott> yeah it has the bug link now :)
Aug 16 01:10:54 * sp3000 finds http://maemo.org/profile/list/category/products/ a bit odd
Aug 16 01:11:35 * jott finds the whole current karma system odd :p
Aug 16 01:12:45 <bef0rd> jott, cool, thanks
Aug 16 01:40:23 <iXce> hmm, when I try to install the .deb of the lib I just built, my n810 tells me "Incompatible application package", yet I can dpkg -i it, is there a clear explanation on why it does that please?
Aug 16 01:43:20 <iXce> the .po file indicates "# The package is incompatible because it is not a user package, but a system package, or it is otherwise incompatible with the device.", are libs considered "system" packages?
Aug 16 01:52:38 <mikkov_> application manager will directly install only packages with category user/something
Aug 16 01:53:43 <mikkov_> so your package is fine, because libs are installed as depencies
Aug 16 01:54:58 <iXce> okai thanks :)
Aug 16 01:55:26 <iXce> so battlegweled 0.9 is perfectly fine for diablo extras
Aug 16 01:56:21 <Proteous> DON'T DO IT!!
Aug 16 01:56:48 <pupnik> Three Words:  Scorched3D on N9x0
Aug 16 01:56:53 <Proteous> when you install battlegweled instantly you have no more free time for anything
Aug 16 01:57:03 <Proteous> your wife leaves you,  your friends give up on you
Aug 16 01:57:06 <Proteous> it's like a curse
Aug 16 01:57:08 <Proteous> don't do it
Aug 16 01:57:28 <pupnik> or you can resolve to be defeated by level N after time t.
Aug 16 01:58:14 <GAN800> pupnik, you see the opengl mention on http://beagleboard.org?
Aug 16 01:58:28 <pupnik> nope, thanks
Aug 16 01:58:41 * GAN800 is crossing his fingers for good things to come.
Aug 16 01:58:52 * GAN800 just ordered his beagle today.
Aug 16 01:59:00 <pupnik> what opengl mention
Aug 16 01:59:28 <pupnik> we knew the 3430 (and later the 3530) had powervr for many months
Aug 16 01:59:33 <GAN800> Left-hand column
Aug 16 01:59:33 <iXce> Proteous: definitely :p
Aug 16 01:59:52 <GAN800> Well, sure, but the driver situation has never really been clear.
Aug 16 02:00:20 <GAN800> With Beagle advertising it right there, things are a little more 'sure'.
Aug 16 02:01:59 <GAN800> I want to build a wood case for it.
Aug 16 02:02:04 <Proteous> beagle?
Aug 16 02:02:17 <Proteous> nm
Aug 16 02:03:16 <GeneralAntilles> Actually, hacking it into a 19" Samnsung LCD sounds more intersting
Aug 16 02:03:31 <mikkov_> i have played 3d pong with n800 at 0.1 fps
Aug 16 02:03:39 <mikkov_> pretty hard
Aug 16 02:04:01 <GeneralAntilles> "Didn't you hear? This is Samsung's new $200 Linux all-in-one machine!
Aug 16 02:04:05 <GeneralAntilles> "
Aug 16 02:04:30 <pupnik> "OpenGL© ES 2.0 capable 2D/3D graphics accelerator"
Aug 16 02:04:50 <pupnik> that's not exactly OpenGL itself, is it :)
Aug 16 02:05:13 <pupnik> but i did talk to the TI guy at linuxtag
Aug 16 02:05:31 <pupnik> and everything he said pointed to opengl available to the hobbyists
Aug 16 02:07:21 <jott> well it really depends on how good the powervr drivers are.
Aug 16 02:07:42 <jott> so like trouble with new kernel versions etc.
Aug 16 02:07:57 <lcuk> pandora still hasnt got drivers has it
Aug 16 02:08:07 <pupnik> i have no info on that
Aug 16 02:08:42 <jott> there are demos clearly using opengl es, but that does not mean that they are avialable to a broader audience.
Aug 16 02:08:47 <lcuk> http://www.openpandora.org/blog.php   "Quake2 running in software mode (not using the 3D hardware yet, but still pushing 60fps)."
Aug 16 02:09:12 * lcuk keeps his eyes out for such details
Aug 16 02:10:24 <GeneralAntilles> I need to pick up an SDIO wifi card
Aug 16 02:10:50 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, that samsung would be nice if it was touchscreen
Aug 16 02:11:15 <GeneralAntilles> I could get a 15" LCD with touch for about $250
Aug 16 02:11:56 <lcuk> but you need an additional computer ontop
Aug 16 02:12:06 <GeneralAntilles> Actually, it would make an interesting carputer
Aug 16 02:12:11 <GeneralAntilles> much more doable than the Mac Mini
Aug 16 02:12:54 <GeneralAntilles> Additional computer?
Aug 16 02:12:59 <GeneralAntilles> The Beagle is the computer.
Aug 16 02:15:33 <lcuk> the samsung is all in one, that is the thing
Aug 16 02:15:48 <GeneralAntilles> Erm
Aug 16 02:16:01 <GeneralAntilles> The Samsung would only be an all-in-one if I stuck a Beagle in there
Aug 16 02:16:04 <GeneralAntilles> That was my point.
Aug 16 02:17:06 <lcuk> http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?quicklinx=50BR   <<< samsung all in one.  isnt that what you were on about
Aug 16 02:17:13 <GeneralAntilles> lol, no
Aug 16 02:17:18 <GeneralAntilles> I didn't even know they made an all-in-one
Aug 16 02:17:36 <GeneralAntilles> I was saying I was going to hack the Beagle into a 19" Samsung LCD and turn it into an all-in-one computer
Aug 16 02:17:53 <lcuk> well samsung have beat you to it :P
Aug 16 02:20:48 <summatusmentis> beagleboards are tiny, I didn't know they were that small
Aug 16 02:21:41 * jott just had to make himself a delicious bagel with all this beagle talking
Aug 16 02:21:43 <jott> yummy
Aug 16 02:22:37 <summatusmentis> bagel?!? :( I miss bagels
Aug 16 02:23:40 <n800n> mister bagels
Aug 16 02:24:20 <GeneralAntilles> summatusmentis, it's an N810 without a screen or case.
Aug 16 02:25:06 <summatusmentis> same identical board? I'm checking the site now
Aug 16 02:25:17 <jott> summatusmentis: yes, with cream cheese, ham, salad, tomatoes and sliced cheese :)
Aug 16 02:25:37 <summatusmentis> jott: that sounds awesome, minues the hame
Aug 16 02:25:38 <GeneralAntilles> summatusmentis, not identical
Aug 16 02:25:42 <GeneralAntilles> but roughly analogous
Aug 16 02:25:46 <GeneralAntilles> OMAP3530
Aug 16 02:25:52 <GeneralAntilles> Instead of OMAP2420
Aug 16 02:26:03 <GeneralAntilles> Fewer extra chip (no BT or wifi) and more ports.
Aug 16 02:26:04 <jott> summatusmentis: vegetarian? :)
Aug 16 02:26:08 <summatusmentis> jott: yep
Aug 16 02:26:21 <summatusmentis> GeneralAntilles: they're kinda cool
Aug 16 02:26:40 <summatusmentis> I have way too many small arm based machines now
Aug 16 02:26:44 <jott> well maybe i make another one without ham just for you :p
Aug 16 02:27:01 <summatusmentis> jott: but... DCC SEND it?
Aug 16 02:27:09 <teamcobra> hey all
Aug 16 02:27:47 <jott> isn't there a bagel over ip rfc?!
Aug 16 02:27:52 <jott> hello teamcobra
Aug 16 02:27:53 * GeneralAntilles wishes he had an extra LCD around to put on this computer.
Aug 16 02:28:12 <teamcobra> hi jott :)
Aug 16 02:28:23 * teamcobra doesn't have any lcd's... just crt's
Aug 16 02:28:27 <teamcobra> other than the laptops
Aug 16 02:28:42 <jott> GeneralAntilles: cannibalize one of your 770s :>
Aug 16 02:29:05 <jott> would be an awesome mod, beagleboard in 770 :)
Aug 16 02:29:51 <teamcobra> hahahaha.... antilles, you impressed with your beagleboard?
Aug 16 02:29:58 <teamcobra> I'm veery close to buying one
Aug 16 02:30:24 <summatusmentis> buy me one?
Aug 16 02:30:47 <pupnik> did you bake the bagels yourself jott?  or buy them in berlin?
Aug 16 02:32:25 <teamcobra> summatusmentis, I _wish_ I could pay for a fleet of them
Aug 16 02:32:57 <summatusmentis> teamcobra: I've got two zaurii, and an n810, plus my centro
Aug 16 02:33:21 <summatusmentis> not buying anymore hardware (except maybe a FreeRunner or OLPC) :-D
Aug 16 02:33:38 <teamcobra> hehehe
Aug 16 02:33:40 <GeneralAntilles> teamcobra, I just ordered one.
Aug 16 02:34:10 <iXce> is there an index of packages (and more specifically libs) like packages.debian.org, but for maemo?
Aug 16 02:34:20 <teamcobra> antilles: the missing usb ehci is the one gotcha for me
Aug 16 02:35:45 <jott> pupnik: i bought just the bread and put the stuff on myself. but you can get ready beagles here too.
Aug 16 02:35:46 <GeneralAntilles> teamcobra, wait until November
Aug 16 02:36:14 <GeneralAntilles> iXce, ferenc is working on one.
Aug 16 02:36:22 <jott> haha
Aug 16 02:36:25 <teamcobra> antilles: but I love the bleeding edge :/
Aug 16 02:36:29 <teamcobra> I'm torn ;p
Aug 16 02:36:29 <iXce> GeneralAntilles: okai :o
Aug 16 02:36:33 <jott> ready beagles nice freudian slippery :)
Aug 16 02:36:37 <pupnik> jott: i have to make my own here...
Aug 16 02:36:43 <teamcobra> I mean, it _can_ be worked around for the most part
Aug 16 02:37:01 <iXce> next question: is there someone with a chinook setup who can tell where I could get python-gdbm source package? :o
Aug 16 02:37:12 <jott> pupnik: you don't even get the bread?
Aug 16 02:38:08 <pupnik> i think EinsA has some - haven't found em yet
Aug 16 02:38:36 <pupnik> but they're so good fresh when you make em yerself
Aug 16 02:38:48 <pupnik> i was the hit at a party with bagels+sourcream+lachs
Aug 16 02:39:16 <jott> hehe yeah well hard to beat when everything is homemade :)
Aug 16 02:39:36 <jott> but the bread is fine too when you put it in the oven for a few minutes.
Aug 16 02:39:43 <jott> iXce: apt-get source does not help?! :)
Aug 16 02:39:43 <pupnik> oh yes you're right
Aug 16 02:40:29 <iXce> jott: well, I only have diablo and diablo doesn't know about python-gdbm
Aug 16 02:42:14 <iXce> and it's not at all in http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/4.0/free/binary-armel/Packages, yet it's required as a build-dep for avahi
Aug 16 02:43:56 <jott> indeed.
Aug 16 02:44:57 <iXce> hmm, this seems to point that the package was already broken in chinook https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/maemo-chinook-i386-extras/logs/avahi_0.6.16-3maemo1.dsc.sbdmock.root.log-FAILED
Aug 16 02:47:52 <jott> iXce: looks like you have to push a python-gdbm package to extras first..
Aug 16 02:48:17 <iXce> jott: yeah
Aug 16 02:48:35 <iXce> jott: though this looks to be a _bad_ workaround, the changelog says it fixes https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2680
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 16 02:59:56 2008