**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 16 02:59:56 2008 Aug 16 03:13:27 there should be an international Bill Hicks soundalike competition for comics Aug 16 03:33:45 iXce: how about this: http://packages.debian.org/lenny/python-gdbm Aug 16 04:00:15 hrmrmrmrmrm Aug 16 04:00:26 My computer should arrive tomorrow Aug 16 04:00:29 so i have a real machine Aug 16 04:00:36 and internet will hopefully be STABLE by then <_< Aug 16 04:00:48 lol Aug 16 04:00:59 rm_you the transient. Aug 16 04:01:07 yeah Aug 16 04:01:21 moved back to school >_> moving sux Aug 16 04:01:50 yet involves tasty tacos Aug 16 04:01:57 and pizza Aug 16 04:02:01 and alcohol Aug 16 04:02:25 so i guess itz alright Aug 16 04:03:50 Good, that means it's time to figure out libconic. :P Aug 16 04:04:16 lulz? Aug 16 04:04:50 lulz for me, pain and suffering for you. :D Aug 16 04:05:03 rm_you, I ordered a Beagle. Aug 16 04:05:29 lol cool Aug 16 04:05:34 how much are they Aug 16 04:06:21 I want to get some port extension cables so I can start working on a case Aug 16 04:06:28 rm_you: They're $150. Aug 16 04:06:32 $149.99 Aug 16 04:06:37 hrm Aug 16 04:06:44 if i were not poor Aug 16 04:07:03 * robink wants a $1000 dev board. Aug 16 04:07:12 ...but I'll probably go with the BeagleBoard. Aug 16 04:07:18 and tryin to buy 5x 1Tb hard drives Aug 16 04:07:25 rm_you: Woah. Aug 16 04:07:29 rm_you: Why not go with 750GB? Aug 16 04:07:38 * GAN800 needs storage Aug 16 04:07:46 * robink could use some storage as well. Aug 16 04:07:47 yeah Aug 16 04:07:53 raid5 4tb Aug 16 04:07:57 == 5 1tb drives Aug 16 04:08:02 Ha Aug 16 04:08:11 rm_you: Why do you need 4tb? Aug 16 04:08:15 cuz Aug 16 04:08:21 Stripe them first for fun. :P Aug 16 04:08:26 my 1.5 tb is ridiculously full ATM Aug 16 04:08:44 and i would prolly fill 4Tb in like Aug 16 04:08:45 a week Aug 16 04:08:47 or less Aug 16 04:08:58 bluray rips are like 5gb >_> Aug 16 04:09:08 i mean Aug 16 04:09:12 i only download legal content Aug 16 04:09:14 so Aug 16 04:09:17 >_> Aug 16 04:10:39 what can be done with a beagle board Aug 16 04:11:29 Anything you can do with a low power computer. Aug 16 04:11:49 id by one if it wasnt for the fact that my pic project has been draging on for 5 years Aug 16 04:12:05 Think of it like an ARM Via board. Aug 16 04:12:22 ? Aug 16 04:13:00 . . . nevermind Aug 16 04:15:44 * robink wants a multilib profile for sparc64 Aug 16 04:15:59 Rather, a sparc64 multilib profile for Gentoo. Aug 16 04:16:31 ARM doesn't need multilib yet, which is nice. Aug 16 04:17:48 Hello teamcobra. Aug 16 04:31:53 http://xkcd.com/456/ "Linux: A true Story" Aug 16 04:43:21 anybody here use goaddy certs? Aug 16 04:43:40 ew godaddy Aug 16 04:43:44 heh Aug 16 04:43:49 well. they're cheaper than most Aug 16 04:44:01 i just need one for my home mail server so i quit getting jacked up cert errors on things Aug 16 04:44:12 like my n800 and my n95 (especially the n95) Aug 16 04:44:23 Hehe Aug 16 04:44:31 the n95 won't let me install the cert to bypass the error so i can't just set it up to automatically grab the mail off my zimbra server at home Aug 16 04:44:35 With all things internet, you get what you pay for. ;) Aug 16 04:44:55 well.. the n95 supports (class 2) goaddy certs Aug 16 04:45:01 was wondering how the hell you can tell the difference Aug 16 04:46:25 i would figure a 15/year cert would work on it.. plus ie wouldn't give me those fucked up CA errors too Aug 16 04:46:27 what a racket :) Aug 16 04:46:44 it's like homeland security Aug 16 04:50:29 and not _really_ secure Aug 16 04:50:38 that's why there's extended ssl now Aug 16 04:50:43 or w/e it's called Aug 16 04:50:58 expensive ssl ;p Aug 16 04:52:58 mmm bbl Aug 16 04:53:15 yeah Aug 16 04:53:18 it is overly expensive Aug 16 04:53:35 the extended is just another racket haha Aug 16 04:53:55 yeah companies have to jump through hoops for validation for the extended certs.. but they are way overpriced Aug 16 04:54:12 and all you REALLY gain from it is a green ie address bar haha Aug 16 04:57:13 startssl.com are free? Aug 16 04:58:33 GeneralAntilles: not really with certs - you get as much security as the cheapest company provides Aug 16 05:28:42 boo all Aug 16 05:28:51 mooboo Aug 16 05:30:42 Anybody with an N810 want to reproduce this: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3592 ? Aug 16 05:35:09 the keyboard shortcuts seem to work, and 'find bar' and 'location bar' textbox seems to get the focus, however I can't type on them unless I click them Aug 16 05:36:50 Interesting Aug 16 05:36:59 Any change with the toolbar hidden? Aug 16 05:37:11 Or with the toolbar shown and the URL field focused? Aug 16 05:40:55 hmm there's indeed some strange behavior Aug 16 05:42:04 with the location bar hidden Aug 16 05:42:13 type ctrl + f Aug 16 05:42:17 it will show the find bar Aug 16 05:42:31 close the find bar Aug 16 05:42:57 type ctrl + l, and it looks like a toolbar appears, but it's not the location bar Aug 16 05:43:02 it seems to be empty Aug 16 05:43:30 BUT Aug 16 05:43:31 * pupnik listens to Francis E. Dec http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/dec_francis/Dec-Francis-E_rant3.mp3 Aug 16 05:43:43 it only happens when you hide the find bar using the 'x' button Aug 16 05:43:55 if you hide it with ctrl + f, ctrl + l keeps working Aug 16 05:46:14 heh dont' know if that made sense :P Aug 16 06:13:04 Why is it that I can't ssh into my n800? ssh root@localhost from the n800 works, but from another machine when I enter the right password I get permission denied Aug 16 06:15:17 try ssh -v and see where it fails? Aug 16 06:16:53 from the n800 or what i'm trying to login with? Aug 16 06:17:08 from that machine you're trying to log into the n800 with Aug 16 06:17:12 no errors Aug 16 06:17:24 debug1: Next authentication method: password Aug 16 06:17:24 root@192.168.3.150's password: Aug 16 06:17:24 debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey,password Aug 16 06:17:24 Permission denied, please try again. Aug 16 06:19:09 hmm, try again Aug 16 06:19:26 i have Aug 16 06:19:29 several times Aug 16 06:19:33 try ssh -vvv Aug 16 06:19:34 i'm 100% sure it's the right password Aug 16 06:20:31 http://pastebin.com/d809e340 Aug 16 06:20:35 For me, my ssh would hang after entering the password because of this crap router. I recompiled openssh with a one line fix to packet.c and it works fine now. Aug 16 06:20:50 it worked for me before though Aug 16 06:21:04 same setup Aug 16 06:21:10 just seems to have stopped working now :s Aug 16 06:22:54 when I restart the server on the n800 Aug 16 06:23:05 it says could not load host key "/etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key" Aug 16 06:23:09 Did you do something with the /etc/ssh/*.conf files or the ~/.ssh? Aug 16 06:23:12 disabling protocol version 2 Aug 16 06:23:27 i haven't done anything with them manually, no Aug 16 06:25:35 You may need to regenerate them :/ Aug 16 06:25:49 Well, that key file anyway. But it's a little drastic :/ Aug 16 06:26:05 :s Aug 16 06:26:08 how can I do that? Aug 16 06:26:33 /usr/bin/ssh-keygen -q -f /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key -t rsa (I think ?) Aug 16 06:26:38 nvm, just reinstalled it completely with --purge Aug 16 06:26:43 no warning when starting Aug 16 06:26:45 still can't log in Aug 16 06:29:19 ah, weird Aug 16 06:29:34 it appears to ask you your password even if the host doesn't exist Aug 16 06:29:38 i'm using the proper ip Aug 16 06:29:42 so perhaps it _is_ a firewall Aug 16 06:32:29 yeah...blargh Aug 16 06:32:32 it is a firewall Aug 16 06:32:36 shouldn't be though Aug 16 06:32:39 everything should be forwarded Aug 16 06:32:49 i can't ssh from n800 to this machine either Aug 16 06:36:50 bef0rd, mind posting your findings in a comment in that bug? Aug 16 06:37:03 With clear steps to reproduce for each issue. Aug 16 06:41:00 qwerty12: would mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs, edit a 1kb file, mount -o remount,ro /mnt/initfs be damaging? Aug 16 06:41:30 Stskeeps: No, I just did the exact same thing yesterday with a ~14KB file. Aug 16 06:42:01 how can I flush the dns on my n800? Aug 16 06:42:04 qwerty12: someone mentioned there could be corruption due to low space / big erase block or whatever.. but aren't you on diablo? Aug 16 06:42:47 Stskeeps: Hmm, first I've heard of corruption. Yes, I am on diablo. Aug 16 06:43:25 qwerty12: ah - cos they made a change regarding rw initfs i think? or is initfs mounted all the time rw? Aug 16 06:44:27 qwerty12: my idea was to have a bootmenu.conf toolset really, that mounts, edit bootmenu.conf, and unmounts initfs Aug 16 06:44:51 Initfs is mounted ro. I think it may be rw before the rootfs is selected to boot. What Nokia did was chop 2MB of space off the rootfs and put it on for the initfs. Aug 16 06:44:51 instead of storing stuff in CAL Aug 16 06:45:13 It's a shame you can't fsck a jffs2 partition manually :( Aug 16 06:45:15 *nod* Aug 16 06:46:25 hello, i have a question. Is there a GNU GCC Compiler package available that is intended to be directly installed and used on the N810 device? I want programme and compile my Programms directly on the N810 device. Aug 16 06:47:35 apt-cache search gcc |grep ^gcc Aug 16 06:48:30 or check gronmayer to find which repo has gcc Aug 16 06:48:31 Stskeeps, there is a chance of corruption with a very full initfs (like with Chinook) Aug 16 06:48:46 But you've got loads of room with Diablo if you're running stock. Aug 16 06:49:30 GeneralAntilles: so i guess 64kb free space on file system is too low :) Aug 16 06:49:39 i want to hack together larger but lightweight and cheap tablets to provide experimentally to bedridden folks Aug 16 06:50:01 *provide internet/compy experimentally Aug 16 06:50:17 * pupnik ponders a beagleboard app Aug 16 06:51:01 GeneralAntilles: my idea is simply to flash-once bootmenu, and then only edit the bootmenu.conf file afterwards through mount -o remount,rw, and provide a bootmenu add <partition> <fs> etc Aug 16 06:51:04 <GeneralAntilles> Building a case would be a pain. Aug 16 06:51:21 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, send fanoush an email Aug 16 06:51:47 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: yeah, prolly gonna do that, he seems to know:P Aug 16 06:52:36 <bef0rd> GeneralAntilles, yea, no problem, let me organize that Aug 16 06:54:26 <GeneralAntilles> I hate it when you sit down to google something then forget what you wanted to google. Aug 16 06:56:42 <Cloaker> pupnik: interesting. why is the gcc package via apt visible but not via the normal programme manager? Aug 16 06:57:14 <pupnik> Cloaker: only packages in section "user" are visible to normal (non-shell) package manager Aug 16 06:57:18 <pupnik> afaik Aug 16 06:57:52 <qwerty12> yep. programs with sections without user/ are only shown in red pill (which you shouldnt turn on) Aug 16 06:57:53 <Cloaker> pupnik: ah, good to know. Thanks Aug 16 06:58:48 <Cloaker> is there a maemo packet list on the internet available so that i don't have to use always apt-cache search? Aug 16 06:59:27 <Cloaker> qwert12: ok, and why shouldn*t i turn on red pill mode? Aug 16 06:59:44 <GeneralAntilles> Cloaker, because you have to ask. ;) Aug 16 06:59:50 <GeneralAntilles> Cloaker, gronmayer.com/it Aug 16 06:59:54 <qwerty12> Cloaker: unless you know what you are doing, you can kill the device Aug 16 06:59:56 <GeneralAntilles> and eventually packages.maemo.org Aug 16 07:00:04 <pupnik> and you seem averse to typing apt-cache search, which makes the desire to compile things a little odd Aug 16 07:00:58 <pupnik> got a bluetooth keyboard for the tablet? if not you can also install "synergy" to the tablet to control it with your PC keyboard+mouse Aug 16 07:01:24 <Cloaker> pupnik: not at the moment but i want buy a bluetooth keyboard Aug 16 07:01:30 <pupnik> *usually client to the tablet and server to PC Aug 16 07:01:57 <pupnik> i usually just ssh to it Aug 16 07:02:14 <qwerty12> ^ + vnc for me Aug 16 07:02:17 <pupnik> but synergy is real nice, especially if you're filming some app interaction Aug 16 07:03:06 <pupnik> oh yeah vnc server is avialable also Aug 16 07:03:35 <Cloaker> so when there is a way to killing the device by using the red pill mode, why then is there no repository with packages like gcc that can all be savely installed? Aug 16 07:04:16 <pupnik> gcc isn't a user package, it's a developer package Aug 16 07:04:24 <qwerty12> Nokia expect you to use scratchbox to compile for the tablet. If you need to use a real ARMEL processor, that is what sbrsh is there for. Aug 16 07:04:45 <pupnik> well jott enjoys coding on the go Aug 16 07:04:51 <Cloaker> pupnik: i know, but why is there no developer repository available for those, that want programme directly on the device? Aug 16 07:04:59 <qwerty12> jott != Nokia :P Aug 16 07:04:59 <pupnik> but then having met him, i'm not at all surprised :) Aug 16 07:05:06 <pupnik> o sorry not jott, lcuk Aug 16 07:05:16 <pupnik> brain short circuit Aug 16 07:05:30 <GeneralAntilles> Cloaker, http://maemo.org/development/tools/ Aug 16 07:06:07 <qwerty12> Still won't get you gcc. They only want you to add diablo/tools Aug 16 07:06:08 <Cloaker> qwerty12: one of the many reasons for me to buy a N810 was the fact, that it is a very small and ultra mobile device with linux onboard a plattform where i can develop on when i am away Aug 16 07:06:36 <GeneralAntilles> Has anybody put together a "Developing on the tablet" guide yet? Aug 16 07:08:50 <Cloaker> GeneralAntilles: Thanks for the the url. But there is not gcc in this repository. Could someone add a gcc package to this repository for the people that want programme directly on the device? Aug 16 07:09:30 <Cloaker> At least there is wget, nano, valgrind and iptuils available Aug 16 07:09:48 <Stskeeps> Cloaker: i've had gcc running on chinook atleast Aug 16 07:10:16 <Stskeeps> and if you want a debian dev environment, run deblet and chroot in, unless you want to devel for maemo Aug 16 07:10:19 <Stskeeps> :P Aug 16 07:10:26 <Gracana> Hmm, I never had any problems installing gcc and friends using the repositories from scratchbox. Aug 16 07:10:57 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: oh, i found a neat trick yesterday - you said you can't strace things in initfs? Aug 16 07:11:17 <qwerty12> Stskeeps: I never said it :P Aug 16 07:11:21 <Stskeeps> ah :P Aug 16 07:12:00 <Stskeeps> in any case, you can do it with strace -f chroot /mnt/initfs cal-tool for instance :P Aug 16 07:12:08 <Stskeeps> and with ltrace too, which makes it interesting Aug 16 07:12:54 <qwerty12> Cloaker: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3405#c6 Aug 16 07:16:16 <Cloaker> deblet sounds interesting. How many users are using deblet? Is this actively developed? Aug 16 07:17:36 <Stskeeps> Cloaker: no clue, but many people use deblet / debian on tablets in some degree, with chroot or whatever Aug 16 07:17:44 <Stskeeps> i work on the booting deblet part mostly Aug 16 07:18:00 <Stskeeps> (we call it deblet not to clash with trademark issues, so :P) Aug 16 07:18:43 <Cloaker> Stskeeps: Are there any disadvantages by using deblet native on the N810? Aug 16 07:18:43 <qwerty12> I still want Nokian or debia :P Aug 16 07:18:44 <GeneralAntilles> Cloaker, the proper SDK repo contains gcc Aug 16 07:18:49 <GeneralAntilles> It's right next to tools Aug 16 07:19:26 <Stskeeps> Cloaker: no sound just yet :P but it'll come eventually Aug 16 07:19:43 <Stskeeps> hmm, Detlef made a single click Debian installer Aug 16 07:19:44 <Stskeeps> that's interesting.. Aug 16 07:21:00 * qwerty12 is going to kill Nokia for not releasing the kernel-diablo-source -29 yet Aug 16 07:21:37 <Cloaker> GeneralAntilles: Isn't the SDK part of the red pill mode intendend only for scratchbox like this webpage says? http://repository.maemo.org/ Aug 16 07:21:49 <GeneralAntilles> It's not related to Red Pill Aug 16 07:21:55 <pupnik> 'where he waded naked with his nurses' Aug 16 07:22:19 * GeneralAntilles facepalms http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=214325#post214325 Aug 16 07:22:23 <pupnik> GeneralAntilles: i'm making mixes with this Francis Dec... it's crazy how it works with different kinds of music Aug 16 07:22:44 * GeneralAntilles made a mix of Quim saying "Maemo" one time. Aug 16 07:23:14 <pupnik> eww Aug 16 07:23:23 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe Aug 16 07:23:25 <qwerty12> Make a video, I'll supply Quim with chains :P Aug 16 07:23:53 <GeneralAntilles> I was trying to pull a pronunciation clip from his LinuxTag speech Aug 16 07:24:22 <GeneralAntilles> and ended up with a bunch of really short, weird sounding clips. Aug 16 07:24:30 <GeneralAntilles> So I dumped 'em in Logic with a fun baseline Aug 16 07:24:37 <GeneralAntilles> It was stupid, but I laughed. ;) Aug 16 07:25:10 <Cloaker> GeneralAntilles: i get really lost in the maemo repository, could someone clarify this by editing this webpage: http://repository.maemo.org/ Aug 16 07:26:17 <GeneralAntilles> Um, what exactly to clarify? Aug 16 07:27:08 <Gracana> d'oh Aug 16 07:28:32 <Cloaker> GeneralAntilles: I would like to know which repositories are only intended for the scratchbox environment and which one don't belong to the red pill. So only a list of all maemo repositories that are intended for the device Aug 16 07:28:47 <GeneralAntilles> Forget Red Pill Aug 16 07:28:51 <GeneralAntilles> It isn't relevant to that page. Aug 16 07:29:28 <Cloaker> So is Red Pill another repository that doesn't belong to maemo? Aug 16 07:29:35 <GeneralAntilles> No. . . Aug 16 07:29:51 <GeneralAntilles> Red Pill is just a "break-me" mode for Application manager. Aug 16 07:30:56 <Cloaker> so i can only break the application manager but not the device? Aug 16 07:31:10 <Cloaker> when using red pill mode? Aug 16 07:32:42 <GeneralAntilles> Application manager is a package manager Aug 16 07:33:06 <GeneralAntilles> Red Pill removes a lot of safety and sanity checks, exposing you to packages which can break your device. Aug 16 07:33:06 <Cloaker> the diablo repository you mentioned above have a lot of nice packages i need (bash, bc, binutils etc.) is it save to switch now from chinook to diablo? Aug 16 07:33:13 <GeneralAntilles> Yes. Aug 16 07:33:20 <Cloaker> Ok, i understand Aug 16 07:34:22 <Cloaker> has diablo any disadvantages compared to chinook? Aug 16 07:35:11 <GeneralAntilles> No Aug 16 07:36:10 <aquatix> morning all Aug 16 07:37:56 <Cloaker> Ok, that sounds good. One more question. I have the device only since a few days, so sorry when i ask to many newb questions. When i was installing some packages with the application manager i noticed with df that all packages where installed on the internal 256 MB flash RAM. Will this change with diablo so that the internal 2 GB flash RAM of the N810 is used? Aug 16 07:38:36 <Cloaker> Or do i have to use symlinks to change this all manually? Aug 16 07:39:35 <pupnik> most people use dual-boot to boot from a large partition on SD Aug 16 07:39:50 <pupnik> but i use the symlink to cheat for some directories Aug 16 07:41:48 <GeneralAntilles> Cloaker, it's not RAM Aug 16 07:41:57 <pupnik> ? Aug 16 07:42:08 <GeneralAntilles> There are 3 storage places, the internal 256MB flash where the OS normally resides. Aug 16 07:42:18 <GeneralAntilles> The internal 2GB card Aug 16 07:42:28 <GeneralAntilles> Which is essentially a soldered-on SD card Aug 16 07:42:33 <GeneralAntilles> and the MiniSD slot Aug 16 07:42:44 <GeneralAntilles> ~boot-sd Aug 16 07:42:45 <infobot> it has been said that boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card Aug 16 07:42:51 <GeneralAntilles> ^ that's what you want. Aug 16 07:42:55 <pupnik> flash was considered a form of RAM, though Aug 16 07:43:12 <pupnik> though it's rarely referred to as flash ram Aug 16 07:43:30 <GeneralAntilles> Meh, it's inappropriate and confusing to describe it as RAM Aug 16 07:43:30 <Cloaker> how does dual booting look like on the N810? is there a boot menu when starting the device or is the second system booted by invoking a command within the first installed system? (for example like loadbin.exe on a pc) Aug 16 07:43:38 <GeneralAntilles> RAM isn't permanent storage Aug 16 07:43:49 <pupnik> google says: Results 1 - 10 of about 672,000 for "flash ram". Aug 16 07:44:13 <GeneralAntilles> pupnik, sure, the N810 has 128MB of "flash RAM" Aug 16 07:44:21 <GeneralAntilles> But that isn't where the OS is stored. Aug 16 07:44:39 <pupnik> no the 128MB isn't flash ram Aug 16 07:45:21 <pupnik> Cloaker was just referring to the 256MB internal storage Aug 16 07:45:41 <GeneralAntilles> Which is inappropriate to describe as RAM. Aug 16 07:46:00 <pupnik> see some of the google links Aug 16 07:46:01 <GeneralAntilles> Anyway, whatever. Aug 16 07:46:35 <Cloaker> i know that Flash is not real RAM, like pupnik said i am used to say to Flash "Flash RAM" Aug 16 07:46:59 <Stskeeps> Cloaker: there's a bootmenu initfs Aug 16 07:47:43 <GeneralAntilles> http://labs.vivi.eng.br/blog/images/dualbootmenuonN800-small.jpg Aug 16 07:49:17 <Cloaker> do i understand it correct that the boot menu is only showed when i am restarting the device? So i will never see it when the device is coming up from standby mode? Aug 16 07:49:23 <qwerty12> <<--'s favourite: http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/bootmenu/bootmenu-kc-colors.jpg Aug 16 07:50:15 <GeneralAntilles> Cloaker, right. Aug 16 07:51:49 <Cloaker> good to know. One another question what filesystem does the maemo/nokia distribution use by default? Aug 16 07:52:09 <GeneralAntilles> jffs2 Aug 16 07:52:09 <qwerty12> jffs2 Aug 16 07:53:29 <Cloaker> ok, good choice. I asked because i was wondering because the manual said that it only can read SD Cards with a FAT32 filesystem. So i can use jffs2 from the beginning for the external SD Card, right? Aug 16 07:53:56 <GAN800> No. Aug 16 07:54:03 <qwerty12> eew. You wouldn't want to use jffs2 on a sd card. Use ext[2/3] Aug 16 07:54:08 <GAN800> ext2/3 for booting from the card Aug 16 07:55:00 <qwerty12> Fanoush is brilliant. I can finally say piss off to those "Setting voltage" messages in my dmesg. Aug 16 07:55:06 <Cloaker> no, i don't want boot from the external card. this one is only intended for data storage. The system should all be installed on the internal 2 GB flash drive Aug 16 07:55:16 <sxpert> sd cards have flash controller inside. no need for cell saving features from the FS Aug 16 07:55:44 <GAN800> The 2GB is usually refered to as a 'card' Aug 16 07:56:21 <Cloaker> so the 256 MB flash device is the only one that is using jffs2? Aug 16 07:56:42 <GAN800> jffs2 is an mtdblock filesystem. Aug 16 08:01:00 <Cloaker> isn't ext2 better than ext3 for the live time of the flash storage because of the journaling feature in ext3? Aug 16 08:05:54 <Cloaker> In the case i mess up the system on my device, is there a way to rescue the system by connecting it with an usb cable to the pc? I ask just for curiosity Aug 16 08:06:32 <GAN800> Bootmenu is the answer. Aug 16 08:06:49 <GAN800> assuming you mean usbnet + ssh/telnet Aug 16 08:06:55 <GAN800> otherwise: Aug 16 08:07:02 <GAN800> ~flashing Aug 16 08:07:03 <infobot> it has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Aug 16 08:10:25 <Cloaker> so i can always rescue my system by flashing? right? As long as i don't have to ship my device to Nokia support that would be fine for me. Aug 16 08:11:37 <bef0rd> almost always Aug 16 08:13:14 <Cloaker> ok Aug 16 08:14:20 <Cloaker> i have another question to Deblet. Does the N810's OCR software work on Deblet? Aug 16 08:17:19 <GAN800> If you screw up NOLO, it'll require factory intervention. Aug 16 08:18:05 <Cloaker> what does NOLO mean? Aug 16 08:19:12 <GAN800> NOkia LOader Aug 16 08:19:21 <GAN800> It's the bootloader. Aug 16 08:19:40 <Cloaker> Oh, ok. Is NOLO installed on the 256 MB FLASH media? Aug 16 08:19:57 <GAN800> In about 10KB of it, yes. Aug 16 08:20:53 <Cloaker> Ok and there is no way to install it again when it is lost by conntecting the nokia device via USB to the PC, right? Aug 16 08:21:02 <qwerty12> But unless you intentionally write to /dev/mtd0 or unplug the cable while the nokia flasher is flashing nolo, the chances of nolo getting damaged are low. Aug 16 08:21:49 <GAN800> ^ Aug 16 08:22:05 <qwerty12> + the fact that you need tools to write to an mtd device which thankfully, the tablet does not ship with. Aug 16 08:22:33 <GAN800> I've heard of exactly one person writing to it and exactly zero people having issues with it from flashing. Aug 16 08:23:37 <RST38h> moo, qwerty Aug 16 08:24:04 <qwerty12> baa, RST38h Aug 16 08:25:10 <qwerty12> Ooh, looks like I was wrong. Nokia don't keep the mtdblocks protected >.< Aug 16 08:26:53 <GAN800> aaaand qwerty12 just wrote to the one on the N800 running heinlein.freenode.net. :p Aug 16 08:27:21 <qwerty12> lol >.< Aug 16 08:27:59 <GAN800> Now the staffers are here to take him down Aug 16 08:28:39 <qwerty12> I'm innocent! Aug 16 08:28:55 <GAN800> He's a witch! Aug 16 08:28:57 <RST38h> KILL KILL Aug 16 08:29:18 <Cloaker> Does Diablo still use a MyDocs folder or does this now all go to /home/user? Aug 16 08:29:35 <qwerty12> OH NOEZ, I'm burnn... Aug 16 08:29:51 <GAN800> Cloaker, why would that have changed? Aug 16 08:30:01 <qwerty12> Cloaker: Still use a MyDocs folder. I don't think Nokia plan on breaking compatibility with the many apps hardcoded to MyDocs. Aug 16 08:31:48 <Cloaker> that's sad. i really don't like this MyDocs folder. It feels somehow unclean. Aug 16 08:32:51 <Cloaker> and it makes accessing the subfolders more cumbersomely when using x terminal (because of the uppercase Letter in the name, i use a symlynk now) Aug 16 08:33:26 <zap> What applications are meant to be in section user/support ? Aug 16 08:35:06 <GAN800> Cloaker, then don't use it Aug 16 08:35:55 <GAN800> zap, the section guidelines aren't really in a state enough yet to say for sure. ;) Aug 16 08:39:58 <Cloaker> the diablo repository has only a sdk and tool folder at the moment what is with the other user applications? Aug 16 08:41:03 <zap> I see only a single package using user/support, and that Aug 16 08:41:06 <zap> is a library Aug 16 08:41:26 <zap> Cloaker: what diablo repository you mean Aug 16 08:41:52 <Cloaker> this one: http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/ Are there more repositories? Aug 16 08:42:01 <Cloaker> of diablo? Aug 16 08:42:30 <zap> sure Aug 16 08:42:36 <zap> repository.maemo.org/extras Aug 16 08:42:38 <zap> repository.maemo.org/extras-devel Aug 16 08:43:23 <Cloaker> what a mess! Why aren't the extras and extras-devel folders not in http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/ ? Aug 16 08:44:02 <zap> because http://repository.maemo.org/dists is not for end users Aug 16 08:44:07 <zap> and not even for the tablet Aug 16 08:44:17 <zap> it's for scratchbox environment (SDK) Aug 16 08:48:04 <Cloaker> General Antilles told me that i can use this http://repository.maemo.org/dists repository for installing gcc on my internet tablet Aug 16 08:49:43 <pupnik> woot for technology: laser-tvs to ship in 2008 (mitsubishi) Aug 16 08:50:23 <pupnik> then hopefully fanless laser projection monitors Aug 16 08:50:39 <pupnik> no reason it can't work - dlp mirrors are cheap Aug 16 08:52:29 <trickie> Cloaker: you can use it get gcc, but be careful as that repository is not meant to be used on the tablet Aug 16 08:53:13 <trickie> so i'd remove it from the sources list when you are done with it Aug 16 08:53:50 <Cloaker> trickie: ok, i also want exchange busybox with bash and this repository does have the bash Aug 16 08:53:57 <pupnik> yes sir, i would* like a 73" full-HD 3D laser-tv Aug 16 08:55:16 <trickie> Cloaker: thats gonna be a bit of work, and very prone to not working Aug 16 08:56:10 <trickie> you will need to replace the meta-packages that define the base system Aug 16 08:56:54 <trickie> busybox provides alot more than the shell Aug 16 08:57:14 <bef0rd> Cloaker, there is bash available on extras, i suppose you are better of installing that version Aug 16 08:57:20 <qwerty12> Well, you can replace bash easily (using zap's bash2) but you can't replace coreutils easily :) Aug 16 08:57:50 <trickie> exactly Aug 16 08:58:17 <Cloaker> all i need is a colored ls ouput and some gnu-utlis Aug 16 08:58:30 <qwerty12> colour ls = www.nitapps.com Aug 16 08:58:44 <qwerty12> ok, fine Aug 16 08:58:48 <qwerty12> s/colour/color/ Aug 16 08:59:15 <zap> maemo logo on garage is borken Aug 16 08:59:35 <qwerty12> How do you mean, it's working for me. Aug 16 08:59:47 <zap> hmm, it just prints "maemo" in the top-left corner Aug 16 08:59:56 <zap> instead of the graphics logo Aug 16 09:00:03 <qwerty12> Try ctrl-shift-r Aug 16 09:00:14 <zap> https://garage.maemo.org/themes/osx/images/maemologo_small.png Aug 16 09:00:18 <zap> this URL does not load Aug 16 09:00:28 <qwerty12> Oh, I'm using the standard theme Aug 16 09:00:47 <zap> hmm, how you do that :) I didn't switch any theme iirc Aug 16 09:01:09 <pupnik> btw the maemo vmware torrent is on piratebay according to someone i just chatted with Aug 16 09:01:11 <zap> it must be some cookie from some other site Aug 16 09:01:18 <qwerty12> zap: https://garage.maemo.org/account/ :) Aug 16 09:01:22 <qwerty12> Choose your theme from there Aug 16 09:01:22 <pupnik> perhaps a more open-source oriented tracker would be preferable Aug 16 09:01:41 <zap> hehe, piratebay spreads opensource :) Aug 16 09:03:10 <pupnik> well it's blocked from china Aug 16 09:03:11 <qwerty12> Heh, poker timer: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/pokertimer/ Aug 16 09:03:20 <qwerty12> China blocks a lot Aug 16 09:03:39 <Cloaker> qwerty12: thanks, but why does no one add color ls to the official maemo repositories? Also nano would be nice to have. Aug 16 09:04:04 <zap> can it be used as a chess timer? :) Aug 16 09:04:17 <pupnik> because space is limited Aug 16 09:04:40 <zap> Cloaker: you could do that yourself Aug 16 09:05:15 <RST38h> Anyone wants the latest version of Slide Rule? Aug 16 09:05:30 <zap> I want. What's that? Aug 16 09:05:32 <nano-> Cloaker: _o/ Aug 16 09:05:51 <RST38h> zap" fms.komkon.org/SlideRule Aug 16 09:06:26 <qwerty12> RST38h: I've wanted that for ages :) Aug 16 09:08:01 <zap> cool. Is it an native app or emulated? Aug 16 09:08:24 <RST38h> native Aug 16 09:08:31 <RST38h> gimme a moment to make a package... Aug 16 09:08:42 <Cloaker> when the users are forced to install from x repositories chances are high that the users get a packet conflict or even worse a trojan bye some dubious repositories. That's why it is better to have all available software in on big community distribution so that this problems can a little be avoided. An alternative would be to put gcc into the official maemo user repository, so that the users can geht the source code of their favourite app f Aug 16 09:08:42 <Cloaker> rom the project website itself and compile it on their tablet Aug 16 09:09:25 * qwerty12 waits for my latest preempt kernel to compile Aug 16 09:09:27 <zap> Cloaker: congrats, you just justified the existence of the extras repository Aug 16 09:09:39 * RST38h hands Cloaker a brownie Aug 16 09:09:42 <qwerty12> lol Aug 16 09:10:00 <qwerty12> Cloaker: if it bothers you, *you* can put it in there. It's a community repo. Aug 16 09:10:14 <RST38h> [with a bonus addition of weed for the wonderful idea about gcc] Aug 16 09:10:17 <zap> <zap> Cloaker: you could do that yourself Aug 16 09:10:20 <zap> that's what I meant Aug 16 09:10:24 <qwerty12> :) Aug 16 09:10:46 <RST38h> In fact, there ARE ways to maintain stable set of packages across multiple repos Aug 16 09:11:01 <RST38h> For some reason, nobody even considered that though Aug 16 09:11:02 <Cloaker> RST38h: i prefer basic calculator (bc) on all my computer devices Aug 16 09:11:14 <RST38h> Cloaker: good boy Aug 16 09:11:36 <zap> bc makes you look like a geek Aug 16 09:11:49 <zap> a gui calculator makes you look cool Aug 16 09:11:58 <zap> you choose :) Aug 16 09:12:32 <bef0rd> linux makes you look like a geek Aug 16 09:12:52 <RST38h> http://fms.komkon.org/SlideRule/sliderule_1.0.0-1_armel.deb Aug 16 09:12:56 <RST38h> Feed! Aug 16 09:12:59 <qwerty12> Thanks RST38h Aug 16 09:13:09 <Cloaker> zap: bc has a much higher precision than most of those eye candy GUI calculators Aug 16 09:13:15 <RST38h> [unfortunately, it is at best an early beta, so don't take it too seriously] Aug 16 09:13:22 <RST38h> Bug reports greatly appreciated Aug 16 09:13:26 <Cloaker> zap: and bc is scriptable Aug 16 09:13:46 <RST38h> Clokaer: If I need a "scriptable calculator" I will use C/C++. Aug 16 09:14:50 <zap> Cloaker: I use bc regularily, but given the awkward N810 keyboard I still would prefer some GUI for simple computations Aug 16 09:15:01 <zap> Cloaker: and bc cannot plot graphs :) Aug 16 09:15:07 <Cloaker> i did't want to be offending. i only said that i prefere bc because of a couple of reasons Aug 16 09:15:24 * zap didn't as well Aug 16 09:15:44 <Cloaker> zap: yes, a frontend for bc on the N810 would be nice. Aug 16 09:15:55 <zap> are there any? Aug 16 09:16:04 <Cloaker> zap: for graphs i prefer gnuplot, what else? :) Aug 16 09:16:07 <RST38h> Cloaker: can bc take derivatives? Aug 16 09:16:31 <Cloaker> zap: there is a frontend for x window, but it is not intendet for the tablets, only for a normal pc Aug 16 09:17:50 <zap> RST38h: is that normal: http://pastebin.ca/1174167 Aug 16 09:18:17 <Cloaker> RTS38h: derivatives? Aug 16 09:18:50 <zap> f'(x) Aug 16 09:19:00 <Cloaker> RTS38h because bc is scriptable you can feed it with any number data and you can write your own functions Aug 16 09:19:26 <RST38h> really? Aug 16 09:19:35 <RST38h> So, Cloaker, can bc take symbolic derivatives? Aug 16 09:19:50 <RST38h> Do you know what a derivative is? Aug 16 09:20:35 <zap> octave can \o/ Aug 16 09:20:43 <Cloaker> If you can express it in a function it is possible. Here are some examples: http://www.cyreksoft.yorks.com/gnu-bc/ Aug 16 09:20:48 <zap> octave == bc on steroids :) Aug 16 09:21:10 <Cloaker> zap: now that zap said it, yes. Aug 16 09:21:35 <Cloaker> i meant the f'(x) showed what you meant with derivative Aug 16 09:21:37 <RST38h> So, bc can't? Aug 16 09:22:37 <RST38h> let me ask a simpler question: can bc operate on ratios without converting them to floating point? Aug 16 09:28:43 <Cloacker> all decimal number calculations of bc are done with integers, floating point types are not used from a programming perspective, that's why bc has such a high precision Aug 16 09:30:17 <RST38h> ok, that's good Aug 16 09:30:38 <RST38h> so ratios are there but not symbolic computations Aug 16 09:31:59 <Cloacker> what do you mean by symbolic computations? Aug 16 09:32:51 <Cloacker> you might also take a look in the gnu bc manual http://www.gnu.org/software/bc/manual/html_mono/bc.html Aug 16 09:32:53 <_julian> hi Aug 16 09:32:58 <zap> RST38h: a bit larger buttons would be better (to avoid the stylus) Aug 16 09:33:07 <_julian> is there a way to change the boot logo from the default NOKIA-one to something else? Aug 16 09:33:13 <_julian> (on n800) Aug 16 09:33:25 <zap> RST38h: and autorepeat for keys (esp. for "C") Aug 16 09:34:06 <Cloacker> zap: this is the x window frontend for bc http://x-bc.sourceforge.net/ Aug 16 09:35:45 <RST38h> zap: Can't make buttons bigger as they will obscure the paper roll Aug 16 09:36:09 <RST38h> zap: Autorepeat - maybe. requires some thinking Aug 16 09:36:48 <dannym> hi hi :) Aug 16 09:37:04 <practisevoodoo> is it possible to copy file to a desktop via bluetooth from an n810? Aug 16 09:37:34 <zap> sure, the desktop must provide an obexftp service Aug 16 09:39:44 <practisevoodoo> looks like that is linux only, im after a solution for my xp machine Aug 16 09:40:14 <zap> RST38h: I can't get it, when I press F1 and, say, sin it will replace last line with something like sin(50000000) Aug 16 09:40:47 <zap> practisevoodoo: windows xp should have the respective service out of the box Aug 16 09:41:14 <zap> practisevoodoo: don't you see your windows machine under the Bluetooth branch in the file manager? Aug 16 09:43:15 <Cloaker> are deblet and maemo the only distributions for the n810 tablet or are there more alternatives? Aug 16 09:44:06 <practisevoodoo> zap, no Aug 16 09:45:01 <zap> practisevoodoo: have you paired your computer with your tablet? Aug 16 09:45:17 <practisevoodoo> yup, it appears in the device list Aug 16 09:45:19 <qwerty12> practisevoodoo: which bluetooth stack are you using? Aug 16 09:45:20 <zap> Cloaker: Angstrom Aug 16 09:45:27 <practisevoodoo> erm Aug 16 09:45:44 <zap> qwerty12: my guess is "microsoft" Aug 16 09:46:15 <zap> Cloaker: and Mamona Aug 16 09:46:25 <practisevoodoo> this is where you have to go looking for drive file names? Aug 16 09:46:30 <qwerty12> zap: yeah, does microsoft have proper obex? I know it can send and recieve as it worked with my phone. replaced it with widcomm in the end though. Aug 16 09:46:58 <practisevoodoo> says, bthprops.cpl, bthport.sys, bthub.sys and fsquirt.exe Aug 16 09:47:41 * zap steals wife father's laptop Aug 16 09:47:59 <RST38h> zap: pressing Fx+key will take sin() of whatever the last line is Aug 16 09:48:33 <RST38h> zap: Where last line is either last line in the roll, OR the last line typed Aug 16 09:48:36 <zap> RST38h: my last line contains "1" Aug 16 09:48:45 <zap> and when I press "sin" it prints sin (1000000) Aug 16 09:48:46 <RST38h> that's weird Aug 16 09:48:54 <zap> also if I enter "1" Aug 16 09:48:57 <zap> and then "+1" Aug 16 09:48:58 <RST38h> Oh I know why Aug 16 09:48:59 <zap> it prints 2 Aug 16 09:49:06 <zap> me too :) Aug 16 09:49:11 <zap> its how you store ratios, right? Aug 16 09:49:17 <RST38h> It has to do with "." or "," removal Aug 16 09:49:20 <zap> yes Aug 16 09:49:25 <RST38h> I will fix it Aug 16 09:49:39 <zap> if I press "=" one more time (so that it converts to 1,0000000) and then enter +1 Aug 16 09:49:43 <zap> I will get 1000001 :) Aug 16 09:51:47 <qwerty12> Stupid phone. Crashes while untarring it's own theme file >.< Aug 16 09:52:03 <zap> phone? untarring? Aug 16 09:52:46 <qwerty12> Yeah, sony ericsson. Not a smart phone but the firmware is patched to run elfs. It stores it's themes in a tar. Aug 16 09:53:39 <zap> stupid windos, have to reboot just to change machine name Aug 16 09:59:07 <zap> practisevoodoo: okay, it works fine for me Aug 16 09:59:25 <zap> practisevoodoo: I have paired the devices, and now I see the laptop under "Bluetooth" branch Aug 16 09:59:49 <zap> practisevoodoo: when I press on it, it displays the files in the Shared Folder of the windoz, and I can copy files back and forth Aug 16 10:00:40 <qwerty12> ~lart fspot Aug 16 10:00:40 * infobot throws fspot's poor little doggy off a cliff Aug 16 10:00:46 <qwerty12> ~lart permissions on a web server Aug 16 10:00:46 * infobot strangles permissions on a web server with a 9-pole serial cable Aug 16 10:00:49 <zap> aha, I see the string "WIDCOMM Bluetooth Software 4.0.1.2301" Aug 16 10:00:56 <qwerty12> widcomm is king Aug 16 10:01:22 <zap> it was on the laptop initially Aug 16 10:01:59 <qwerty12> Cool, I had to "patch" my copy to work with my bluetooth stick that came with bluesoleil >.< Aug 16 10:02:35 <zap> bluetooth is so slooooooooooooow :) Aug 16 10:02:51 <aquatix> zap: get a new bt dongle? :) Aug 16 10:02:57 <aquatix> still, it's slow :/ Aug 16 10:03:03 <zap> that won't help :) Aug 16 10:03:05 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: The maemo wiki front page appears to be blank Aug 16 10:03:22 <aquatix> zap: and pumping 2GB of data over bt isn't recommended too ;) Aug 16 10:03:33 * aquatix reads backlog Aug 16 10:03:57 <zap> aquarius-: what 2GB, a simple 15Mb clip is a PITA Aug 16 10:03:59 <qwerty12> I was getting decent speeds from N73 --> N800. Hardly wifi standard but decent none the less. Aug 16 10:04:28 <zap> qwerty12: with or without an access point? Aug 16 10:04:39 <qwerty12> zap: bluetooth :) Aug 16 10:04:52 <zap> "decent" == 20k/s ? :) Aug 16 10:04:59 <GAN800> lardman, b.m.o. Aug 16 10:05:12 <GAN800> not anything in my power to fix. Aug 16 10:05:29 <qwerty12> zap: Round about :). Much faster than N800 --> K750i Aug 16 10:05:42 <zap> theoretically Bluetooth gives speeds up to a megabit, but in practice its a lot slower Aug 16 10:05:46 <RST38h> Stupid Maemo printf() prints decimal point as comma Aug 16 10:05:55 <zap> BT is just a serial port over radiowaves Aug 16 10:05:57 <RST38h> Any ideas how ot modify this wonderful behaviour? Aug 16 10:06:03 <zap> RST38h: yes Aug 16 10:06:17 <zap> RST38h: #include <locale.h>; setlocale (LC_ALL, ""); Aug 16 10:06:24 <zap> or just LC_NUMERIC Aug 16 10:06:43 <lardman> GAN800: ok Aug 16 10:06:44 <RST38h> Umgh Aug 16 10:06:51 * RST38h absolutely hates locales Aug 16 10:07:30 <zap> ah, you want a dot Aug 16 10:07:37 <zap> setlocale (LC_NUMERIC, "C") Aug 16 10:07:39 <zap> this way Aug 16 10:09:43 <zap> you just have to learn them, then it's fun Aug 16 10:10:53 <RST38h> it's mess Aug 16 10:11:00 <zap> actually it's not Aug 16 10:11:08 <zap> it's more or less well laid out Aug 16 10:11:25 <zap> RST38h: What keys switch from and out of the graph mode? (SOFT1?) Aug 16 10:12:11 <Cloaker> is there a packet of kismet in the maemo repository? Aug 16 10:12:29 <zap> there's aircrack Aug 16 10:12:54 <zap> but since the wifi driver does not support injection, its not too useful Aug 16 10:14:14 <RST38h> zap: menu Aug 16 10:14:20 <RST38h> zap: setlocale (LC_NUMERIC,"C"); does not work Aug 16 10:14:25 <RST38h> still comma Aug 16 10:14:25 <Cloaker> i can't use aircrack in my country, it might be heavily illegal here, but kismet is passive and that's why i consider it not that bad like aircrack can be Aug 16 10:14:46 <zap> RST38h: Put it after gtk_init() Aug 16 10:15:02 <zap> RST38h: it does setlocale(LC_ALL, "") Aug 16 10:15:07 <zap> and overwrites your setting Aug 16 10:16:34 <RST38h> oh Aug 16 10:16:58 <RST38h> Have I mentioned that I hate locales? Aug 16 10:17:26 <zap> you just don't know how to cook them right Aug 16 10:17:42 <zap> btw, why 5-6 give "-1*1"? Aug 16 10:18:55 <zap> also if I start the expression with '-', it isn't appended to previous, it's just taken as separate Aug 16 10:21:36 <RST38h> zap: treats it as negative Aug 16 10:21:44 <zap> I understand Aug 16 10:21:49 <RST38h> you can click = extra time Aug 16 10:21:59 <zap> this is ambiguous Aug 16 10:22:12 <RST38h> I know Aug 16 10:22:22 <zap> MENU key does not toggle graphics/calculator mode Aug 16 10:22:23 <RST38h> but one has to be able to enter negartive numbers somehow Aug 16 10:22:31 <RST38h> zap: not menu key. menu option Aug 16 10:22:35 <zap> ah Aug 16 10:22:42 <zap> maybe menu key could be used? its unused anyway :) Aug 16 10:22:59 <RST38h> yes, will use it, gimme a moment Aug 16 10:23:08 <zap> If I start being annoying, just tell me :) Aug 16 10:23:11 * RST38h still excorsizes sprintf locale problem Aug 16 10:24:31 <zap> didn't help? Aug 16 10:25:30 <lardman> what calc is this you're talking about? Aug 16 10:25:37 <lardman> ssvb: thanks for your email Aug 16 10:25:47 <zap> lardman: http://fms.komkon.org/SlideRule/ Aug 16 10:25:51 <ssvb> lardman: you are welcome Aug 16 10:26:23 <lardman> ssvb: Interesting to hear that ALSA disrupts video playback on its own Aug 16 10:27:00 <zap> RST38h: http://pastebin.ca/1174221 Aug 16 10:27:03 <lardman> ssvb: but there's still some issue with using the DSP, as I can use sw sbc encoding and get decent playback on some videos, but it's still brought to its knees by the DSP Aug 16 10:27:11 <lardman> zap: thanks Aug 16 10:27:53 <lardman> ssvb: I think I'll try to get that mp3 decoder that you sent me working, then look at keeping it all DSP-side Aug 16 10:28:16 <lardman> ssvb: if you fancy taking a crack at the EAP stuff, then that would be useful as a sink method ;) Aug 16 10:28:20 <lardman> bbiab Aug 16 10:30:00 <zap> RST38h: strictly speaking, starting an expression with "+" is ambiguous as well. Maybe a "Chained calculations" button toggle? Aug 16 10:32:29 <aquatix> what's the best way atm to add ogg support to my n810? mogg? `ogg support'? Aug 16 10:32:51 <zap> aquatix: MediaBox supports ogg iirc Aug 16 10:35:59 <aquatix> zap: hm, yet another media player :) Aug 16 10:36:02 <aquatix> looks interesting Aug 16 10:39:19 <zap> aquatix: thats what I use, the rest sucks Aug 16 10:39:37 * aquatix uses the default media app atm Aug 16 10:39:45 <zap> default media app sucks badly Aug 16 10:39:46 <aquatix> ah, python and gstreamer Aug 16 10:40:06 <aquatix> myeah, it's acceptable for playing some music Aug 16 10:40:14 <aquatix> i have mplayer for movies Aug 16 10:40:16 <zap> it doesn't even support unicode tags Aug 16 10:40:25 <zap> need I say more? :) Aug 16 10:40:30 <aquatix> fair enough :) Aug 16 10:40:40 <aquatix> so i guess mediabox does? Aug 16 10:40:44 <zap> yep Aug 16 10:40:56 <aquatix> ok, let's install then Aug 16 10:41:17 * aquatix will not be able to keep his n810 python-free anyway ;) Aug 16 10:41:30 <aquatix> hell, i'll likely even start hacking some python for it Aug 16 10:42:11 <zap> I never would use MediaBox if I would know it's Python :) Aug 16 10:42:26 <zap> I thought it's in C++, used it for a month and only then found that %-O Aug 16 10:42:30 <aquatix> :) Aug 16 10:42:35 * aquatix doesn't hate python Aug 16 10:42:40 <aquatix> but it's a largish install Aug 16 10:42:46 <zap> I even program in Python :) Aug 16 10:42:49 <aquatix> but a lot of apps use it anyway Aug 16 10:42:55 <aquatix> yeah, it's an interesting language Aug 16 10:43:05 <zap> but I had earlier the impression that Python is not for cpu-limited devices Aug 16 10:43:51 <Cloaker> how is the memory consumption of python apps on the tablet? Whould native C++ apps need less memory? Aug 16 10:45:00 <aquatix> Cloaker: i guess they would use less Aug 16 10:45:05 <aquatix> but it's surprisingly good Aug 16 10:45:07 <aquatix> imho Aug 16 10:45:08 <zap> sometimes yes Aug 16 10:45:27 <zap> the data storage is generally less optimal Aug 16 10:45:32 <Cloaker> thanks to lambda function ;) Aug 16 10:46:18 <RST38h> @%$#%$ Aug 16 10:46:29 <zap> RST38h: still can't get it straight? Aug 16 10:46:51 <zap> RST38h: try "export LC_NUMERIC=C" before starting your app Aug 16 10:47:05 <zap> if it works, there's a hidden "setlocale (LC_ALL, "")" somewhere Aug 16 10:47:50 <GNUton> Hello people Aug 16 10:48:02 <zap> elpoep olleH Aug 16 10:48:35 <GNUton> pza yeh Aug 16 10:48:53 <GNUton> paz yeh Aug 16 10:48:54 <GNUton> :P Aug 16 10:48:59 <zap> :P Aug 16 11:01:22 <aquatix> zap: meh, it's first creating a bunch of thumbnails of all pictures on my card Aug 16 11:01:36 <Jaffa> Morning, all Aug 16 11:01:41 <aquatix> hey Jaffa Aug 16 11:02:10 <zap> aquatix: it contains a picture and video player as wwell Aug 16 11:03:07 <aquatix> zap: yeah, but it might be less time consuming to do the thumbnailing on demand :P Aug 16 11:03:10 <aquatix> oh well Aug 16 11:03:12 <aquatix> it's on DC anyway now Aug 16 11:04:21 <dannym_> can anyone reach the new wiki? <http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page> results in an empty page to me. Aug 16 11:04:55 <qwerty12> dannym_, ctrl+shift+r Aug 16 11:05:18 <aquatix> odd, it was empty for me first too Aug 16 11:06:06 <aquatix> say, what do those lock icons on http://wiki.maemo.org/Playing_OGG_files mean? Aug 16 11:08:01 <RST38h> zap,qwerty: Please, redownload SlideRule again Aug 16 11:10:22 <aquatix> zap: yay, it made my tablet reboot Aug 16 11:10:28 <zap> who? Aug 16 11:10:34 <aquatix> mediabox Aug 16 11:10:46 <aquatix> i tried to load another album while one was playing Aug 16 11:10:52 <aquatix> and it hang a bit Aug 16 11:10:58 <aquatix> so i tried minimising it Aug 16 11:11:05 <aquatix> still nothing happened, then it rebooted Aug 16 11:11:07 <aquatix> oh well Aug 16 11:12:07 <RST38h> Evil Python Crashes Another Tablet Aug 16 11:12:11 <RST38h> News at 11. Aug 16 11:12:34 <aquatix> heheh Aug 16 11:12:46 <aquatix> well, this was the first time this happened to me Aug 16 11:12:49 <zap> RST38h: one small note: invoke maemo-select-menu-location only if $2 is empty Aug 16 11:12:55 <aquatix> normally it would be other kinds of apps Aug 16 11:14:18 <zap> RST38bis: pressing '=' several times does not help to subtract from previous value Aug 16 11:15:40 <zap> cool, MENU key now works :) Aug 16 11:16:31 <RST38h> zap: I don't get the $2 comment Aug 16 11:16:47 <RST38h> zap: to subtract, click - then = then Aug 16 11:17:37 <zap> http://pastebin.ca/1174265 Aug 16 11:19:45 * RST38h wonders if going outside is a good idea Aug 16 11:20:37 <RST38h> zap: I have a completely different installation script Aug 16 11:20:38 <aquatix> depends where outside is Aug 16 11:21:52 <RST38h> +32oC, no clouds, haze Aug 16 11:22:26 <zap> RST38h: I know, it just shows a example how postinst should work Aug 16 11:22:51 <zap> RST38h: before running maemo-select-menu-location check if $2 is empty, this means the package is installed for the first time Aug 16 11:23:07 <zap> RST38h: otherwise that dialog pops up even when you upgrade the package Aug 16 11:23:13 <RST38h> oh Aug 16 11:24:25 <zap> +32 where? It's +19 here Aug 16 11:28:10 <aquatix> +21.1 here according to wunderground.com Aug 16 11:28:21 <zap> hmm, I must be dumb but I still can't substract. I enter '25' '=' '-1' '=' then '-' '=' and I get 1+25.0000 ? Aug 16 11:29:40 <zap> ah, got it. I must enter '1' not '-1 Aug 16 11:31:58 <zap> now that I grok it, it's very handy :) Aug 16 11:32:19 <RST38h> hehe Aug 16 11:32:43 <RST38h> zap: definitely not +19 Aug 16 11:32:44 <zap> how do I zoom in/out? Aug 16 11:32:55 <RST38h> zap: zoom buttons on the device Aug 16 11:32:59 <zap> ah Aug 16 11:33:30 <RST38h> more like +30oC Aug 16 11:35:13 <Cloaker> i am going offline now. thx to all. cya Aug 16 11:35:19 <aquatix> cya Aug 16 11:35:39 <zap> can we expect 3D graphs any time soon? :) Aug 16 11:35:48 <RST38h> http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=moscow,%20russia&wuSelect=WEATHER Aug 16 11:35:49 <zap> (also save/load would be nice) Aug 16 11:35:59 <RST38h> zap: Save and load happen automatically Aug 16 11:36:08 <RST38h> zap: 3d stuff - maybe, dunno right now Aug 16 11:36:43 <zap> :)) Aug 16 11:36:55 <zap> would be nice to have several save slots Aug 16 11:37:06 <zap> especially if you add 3D plots :) Aug 16 11:37:18 <melmoth> Anybody already try to play with http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Rana ? Aug 16 11:37:46 <RST38h> I am not even doing 2d plots right Aug 16 11:38:31 <RST38h> All the extremal and undefined points are screwed up Aug 16 11:39:07 <zap> is it intentional that app does not fullscreen completely? Aug 16 11:39:14 <zap> covers just the central part of the screen Aug 16 11:40:00 <RST38h> not intentional really Aug 16 11:40:15 <RST38h> just need to do some more coding, too lazy for that Aug 16 11:40:19 <zap> :) Aug 16 11:40:41 <zap> can I reset the vertical scale somehow? I got it very large from previous graph, and now I can't see the new graph well Aug 16 11:42:17 <RST38h> yes Aug 16 11:42:36 <RST38h> left-top and left-bottom graph corners will do resets Aug 16 11:42:53 <RST38h> one resets to -10,-10..10,10 Aug 16 11:43:10 <RST38h> another resets to function's min/max at the current argument range Aug 16 11:43:39 <zap> hmm, it just shifts the point I click to the center of the plot Aug 16 11:44:03 <RST38h> no, try the very corner Aug 16 11:44:03 <zap> ah, left-bottom Aug 16 11:46:05 <zap> the Escape key is unused, could do something useful :) Aug 16 11:46:21 <zap> maybe switch to/from graph mode, hm Aug 16 11:46:45 <zap> it would save me from opening the keyboard :) Aug 16 11:48:24 <RST38h> it is exit Aug 16 11:48:36 <RST38h> at least I think it is exit Aug 16 11:48:48 <zap> exit from where Aug 16 11:48:55 <RST38h> from the application Aug 16 11:49:18 <zap> it is not, and shouldn't be Aug 16 11:49:34 <zap> the close button works fine :) Aug 16 11:49:38 <RST38h> dunno Aug 16 11:50:06 <zap> and it does not retain state between runs Aug 16 11:50:15 <zap> always starts with "0.00000" Aug 16 11:53:26 <RST38h> hm Aug 16 11:53:27 <RST38h> ok Aug 16 11:53:56 <RST38h> actually I may know why Aug 16 11:54:03 <RST38h> it has no permissions to write .ini file Aug 16 11:54:23 <zap> wheres the ini file? Aug 16 11:54:29 <RST38h> god knows Aug 16 11:54:32 <zap> :)) Aug 16 11:54:42 <zap> ~/.config/sliderule.conf Aug 16 11:54:47 <RST38h> do you know if fopen("~/.sliderule","wb") will work? Aug 16 11:54:51 <zap> no Aug 16 11:54:57 <zap> ~ is a shell macro Aug 16 11:55:01 <RST38h> thought so Aug 16 11:55:03 <zap> it doesnt work at lower level Aug 16 11:55:10 <zap> wait Aug 16 11:55:16 <RST38h> so what is a kosher way to do it? Aug 16 11:56:55 <zap> http://www.gtk.org/api/2.6/glib/glib-Miscellaneous-Utility-Functions.html Aug 16 11:57:19 <zap> const gchar* g_get_user_config_dir (void); & company Aug 16 11:57:50 <RST38h> should I g_free() the result? Aug 16 11:58:18 <zap> no, see the description Aug 16 12:01:36 <RST38h> got it. a moment. Aug 16 12:03:59 <zap> what do you use the .service file for? Do you handle files with scripts? Aug 16 12:05:07 <RST38h> Not really Aug 16 12:05:23 <RST38h> But Maemo really prefers that you run your program as a dbus service Aug 16 12:05:26 <zap> would be really cool if it would launch when I would click on some '.slr' file or something like that Aug 16 12:05:30 <zap> no Aug 16 12:05:35 <RST38h> This way when it is being loaded, you get the feedback Aug 16 12:05:47 <RST38h> .slr files are not hard to do really Aug 16 12:05:48 <zap> the 'loading APP' popup? Aug 16 12:05:51 <RST38h> yes Aug 16 12:05:58 <zap> why one would need them :) Aug 16 12:06:37 <RST38h> well, Nokia guys seem to like them Aug 16 12:06:42 <zap> :) Aug 16 12:06:52 <RST38h> And I just provided a universal init code in my framework Aug 16 12:07:03 <RST38h> So it does not cost me anything to have this as a service Aug 16 12:07:04 <zap> do you use SDL for drawing? Aug 16 12:07:08 <RST38h> no Aug 16 12:07:20 <zap> gdk? Aug 16 12:07:31 <zap> or plain X11 calls Aug 16 12:08:14 <RST38h> *Buffer = pixel; Aug 16 12:08:17 <RST38h> this kind of stuff Aug 16 12:08:37 <zap> and then blit the buffer with? Aug 16 12:08:45 <RST38h> I have portable graphics - SlideRule will even run on an mp3 player Aug 16 12:08:53 <RST38h> XPutImage Aug 16 12:08:59 <zap> aha Aug 16 12:09:16 <RST38h> Well, in the case of Maemo, I have got a GtkImage widget, so it blits however it wants Aug 16 12:09:27 <zap> your emulators also use XPutImage? Aug 16 12:09:37 <RST38h> They all use the same EMULib library Aug 16 12:09:56 <zap> and what it uses? Aug 16 12:10:07 <zap> (on maemo) Aug 16 12:10:20 <RST38h> GtkImage Aug 16 12:10:26 <zap> um Aug 16 12:10:29 <zap> that could be slow Aug 16 12:10:43 <zap> methinks it does not use acceleration Aug 16 12:13:39 <TZander> who has commit rights to the 4.1 INSTALL.txt ? Aug 16 12:13:50 <TZander> the install instructions seem to be wrong ;) Aug 16 12:15:06 <TZander> oh, easier solution; swap the links to the install scripts on http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo-4-1-diablo-sdk/ Aug 16 12:15:18 <TZander> so people *first* install the scratchbox and then the sdk. Aug 16 12:20:28 <dannym> TZander: If in doubt, bring it up on the devel mailing list... Aug 16 12:21:31 <lcuk> zap, does anything use acceleration? Aug 16 12:23:00 <TZander> dannym: nobody here has commit access? Aug 16 12:23:09 <lcuk> RST38h, :D can i put the sliderule on my ipod nano? :D Aug 16 12:23:35 <TZander> who knows how to get root on the maemon devel image? Aug 16 12:26:20 <dannym> TZander: what do you mean? In Scratchbox? Aug 16 12:27:04 <jott> TZander: in scratchbox you just use "fakeroot". Aug 16 12:27:09 <jott> ~rootsh Aug 16 12:27:10 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/ Aug 16 12:27:13 <jott> for the device Aug 16 12:28:11 <TZander> no, on my n810 Aug 16 12:28:38 <jott> TZander: rootsh (or easyroot) it is. Aug 16 12:28:52 <lcuk> but thats not the maemo devel image Aug 16 12:30:00 <TZander> lcuk: its reflashed Aug 16 12:30:13 <jott> TZander: and welcome to maemo :) Aug 16 12:30:46 <lcuk> ahhh so i can get a devel image directly on my 810 without the hoops i went through before? Aug 16 12:31:03 <CptLaptop> can you do mouse poll without reflash? Aug 16 12:31:29 <TZander> lcuk: dont know; I just handed it to someone that figured it all out before and he hooked mine up with usb and a little while later it was flashed. Aug 16 12:31:37 * lcuk must remember not to think too hard so early in the afternoon Aug 16 12:36:39 <Mace_> hm Aug 16 12:36:52 <lcuk> am i bad for wanting to use the fullscreen button for something different than just "fullscreen/normal"? Aug 16 12:37:04 <Mace_> need to find a damn sd somewhere around here Aug 16 12:37:20 <CptLaptop> my fullscreen button is mapped to the coffee maker Aug 16 12:37:28 <dannym> lcuk: yup ;) Aug 16 12:37:29 <Mace_> haha Aug 16 12:37:35 <lcuk> thats a good plan CptLaptop Aug 16 12:37:56 <Mace_> starts making a pot over wifi? Aug 16 12:38:15 <lcuk> dannym, but my app is fullscreen anyway and takes a full couple of seconds to remap itself - i wanna cycle through a few of ui variations on each press Aug 16 12:38:15 <dannym> lcuk: no, seriously: the side buttons on the N800 are the only ones that I can press without problems with my big hands so I'm mapping whatever is important there... me evil too :D Aug 16 12:38:22 * Mace_ picture networked coffee pot Aug 16 12:38:26 <CptLaptop> that would be awesome Aug 16 12:38:58 <dannym> lcuk: I see. FBReader does that with the middle button in the d pad, btw. Aug 16 12:39:31 <lcuk> not on mine it doesnt (down and centre dpad are next page, up is previous page) - when rotated Aug 16 12:39:46 <dannym> hmm Aug 16 12:40:03 * lcuk wanted to map half the keyboard to down and half to up, but the fbreader ui wasnt very good at mapping loads Aug 16 12:40:23 * lcuk got bored after setting QAZWSXEDCRFV Aug 16 12:41:42 <dannym> hehehe Aug 16 12:41:45 <lcuk> fbreader moes so slowly to the previous page its frustrating Aug 16 12:43:37 <dannym> lcuk: do you use the rotate extension of X? Aug 16 12:43:42 <CptLaptop> my fbreader runs wild sometimes, just going nuts and jumping through pages like a maniac Aug 16 12:43:49 <CptLaptop> dunno if my d pad is gay or what it is Aug 16 12:43:51 <dannym> lcuk: FBReader is a lot faster when it doesn't have to rotate the stuff itself Aug 16 12:44:28 <lcuk> dannym, but even unrotated its awful, maybe its the book format i use Aug 16 12:44:42 <dannym> CptLaptop: same happens here... is it FBReader or the keyboard itself, though? Aug 16 12:44:46 * lcuk still has proper book reading ui in mind Aug 16 12:44:59 <lcuk> the screen tapping annoyed me at first Aug 16 12:45:20 <lcuk> but now i have my cradle its not bothered me cos i can hold 810 easily Aug 16 12:45:21 <CptLaptop> dannym dunno.... i tried setting the pressing time (or wtf its called) to 500ms but still happens Aug 16 12:46:03 * lcuk hopes to have proper text reading in time Aug 16 12:46:56 <aquatix> wtf, i just wanted to ask whether fbreader could be hacked to scroll with the +/- buttons Aug 16 12:47:00 <aquatix> but it already does :D Aug 16 12:47:10 * lcuk is wrestling with layout style data and code Aug 16 12:47:10 <dannym> CptLaptop: maybe it's misjudging that the key repeat delay has passed after it tuned down the cpu freq when doing nothing Aug 16 12:47:39 <CptLaptop> no idea. annoying either way :/ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 16 12:47:49 2008 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 16 12:48:14 2008 Aug 16 12:48:28 <lcuk> its like the bluetooth keyboard repeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeat thing Aug 16 12:48:56 <lcuk> or the strokes joining together thing when drawing Aug 16 12:49:29 <CptLaptop> hmm never watched the cpu bar when flipping pages, using it in otate fullscreen mode Aug 16 12:49:45 <CptLaptop> but i get what you mean Aug 16 12:49:50 <CptLaptop> the bt bug is annoying too Aug 16 12:50:05 <lcuk> ive done lots of watchign with the cpufreq stuff and it slows down VERY quickly even if an app is using lots of cpu Aug 16 12:51:09 <CptLaptop> with the rate simon and schuster is going i wont need fbreader :/ Aug 16 12:51:21 <CptLaptop> book im waiting for was released on paper july 29, ebook stil l not out Aug 16 12:51:39 <dannym> aquatix: yep, cool, eh :) It would drive me mad to use the D pad for reading books (pressing tiny button in cramped area for 800 pages would make me throw it on the floor :)) Aug 16 12:52:00 <lcuk> dannym, thats why dpad centre works nicely Aug 16 12:52:09 <aquatix> dannym: yeah, aside from the fact that i'd need to slide it out Aug 16 12:52:10 * CptLaptop remaps Aug 16 12:52:49 <dannym> aquatix: ah, on the N810 it's on the keyboard slide? Aug 16 12:52:57 <dannym> aquatix: On the N800 its right beside the screen Aug 16 12:53:07 <aquatix> yeah :( Aug 16 12:53:14 <aquatix> one of the drawbacks of the n810 Aug 16 12:53:29 <lcuk> this is what my 810 lives in most of the time, its open almost all of it and accessible http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=810cratelaptopmodetc6.jpg Aug 16 12:53:54 <aquatix> lol Aug 16 12:54:02 <aquatix> that's an apple kb? Aug 16 12:54:10 <lcuk> the elastic band prevents the innevitable 810 on the head syndrome at night when rotated and reading Aug 16 12:54:11 <lcuk> yer Aug 16 12:54:14 <aquatix> gotta love the wood Aug 16 12:54:28 <aquatix> ah, n810-in-head syndrome Aug 16 12:54:31 <aquatix> been there Aug 16 12:54:48 <CptLaptop> i have something very similar Aug 16 12:54:59 * aquatix has an igo bt keyboard Aug 16 12:55:02 <CptLaptop> http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/IMG_2054-1.jpg Aug 16 12:55:25 <CptLaptop> sold two of the devices that thign holds -.- Aug 16 12:55:52 <aquatix> :) Aug 16 12:56:05 <aquatix> CptLaptop: what's it made of? Aug 16 12:56:08 <lcuk> right back later, havin a shower then goin lookin at dead bodies Aug 16 12:56:10 <CptLaptop> n810 on head? Aug 16 12:56:23 <dannym> hehehe Aug 16 12:56:23 <aquatix> lcuk: er, enjoy Aug 16 12:56:36 <CptLaptop> aquarius: wood, paintted and with fabric inserts Aug 16 12:56:43 <aquatix> CptLaptop: yeah, when reading in bed, then dropping it Aug 16 12:56:59 <lcuk> CptLaptop, i lie on my back in bed with that on chest reading - without the elastic band it would ummm topple - a high tech solution was needed Aug 16 12:57:01 <dannym> yeah, letting it fall down when getting too tired :) although I usually lie on the side so it will just fall on the bed :) Aug 16 12:57:03 <CptLaptop> i normally hold my n800 over my head, fall asleep, drop it in my face, wake up, repeate Aug 16 12:57:19 <CptLaptop> lol good its not only me Aug 16 12:57:28 <aquatix> http://aquariusoft.org/gallery/v/photographs/tech/IMG_4644.html <- i have a monitor stand ;) Aug 16 12:57:49 <dannym> but I actually have a strap thingie that I want to add one of these days... Aug 16 12:57:52 <lcuk> before the crate i opened the stand,. wedged a towel or tshirt through it and gripped the towel Aug 16 12:57:58 <dannym> you know like on the cheapo tiny radios Aug 16 12:58:35 <lcuk> anyway back later Aug 16 12:58:40 * lcuk goes to bodyworks Aug 16 12:58:41 <dannym> where you put your hand in the strap and its affixed onto the device using a tiny loop through two holes... Aug 16 12:58:51 <aquatix> lcuk: cya Aug 16 12:58:59 <dannym> lcuk: have fun :) Aug 16 12:59:08 <CptLaptop> before i got the n800 i use the psp for readiong. converted txt to jpg, worked rather nicely. used a windshield mount on the side of my bed holding it in angle, and a wired remote underr the covers to flip pages. Aug 16 12:59:51 * aquatix loved his sony clie palms for reading Aug 16 13:00:23 <CptLaptop> nowadays i use audiobooks mostly, at work Aug 16 13:00:29 <CptLaptop> too bad so little ahs been audiolized Aug 16 13:00:45 * aquatix can't stand audiobooks Aug 16 13:00:48 <aquatix> i want to read Aug 16 13:00:59 <aquatix> can't really get into audiocasts too Aug 16 13:01:29 <CptLaptop> difficult to read when youre in the middle of a forrest with safety gear up your ass waving a saw and hauling wood Aug 16 13:01:49 <aquatix> heh Aug 16 13:01:56 <dannym> CptLaptop: tried mbrola? I wonder if it's good enough to auto-speak a text file :) Aug 16 13:02:02 <aquatix> when i'm at work, i'm not expected to consume books ;) Aug 16 13:02:06 <CptLaptop> lol i doubt it Aug 16 13:02:26 <CptLaptop> im very picky with readers, people that sound off to me i dont bother with Aug 16 13:02:47 <aquatix> another reason i don't bother :) Aug 16 13:02:54 * aquatix is picky bookwise Aug 16 13:03:09 <aquatix> and i like to not spoil the fantasy world around it Aug 16 13:03:12 <aquatix> oh well Aug 16 13:03:36 <CptLaptop> what book category? Aug 16 13:03:39 <CptLaptop> i prefer scifi <3 Aug 16 13:03:42 <aquatix> various kinds Aug 16 13:03:53 <aquatix> scifi, thrillers (like Preston and Child), fantasy Aug 16 13:04:14 <CptLaptop> the starship series is nice for scifi Aug 16 13:04:50 <CptLaptop> but what annoys me is that the falcon banner series by patrick lydon isnt more known, excellent scifi but its only available through some weird online store because hes not known Aug 16 13:05:37 <CptLaptop> makes me wonder what other treats are out there, undiscovered Aug 16 13:05:39 <dannym> CptLaptop: well around here it's the same even with Isaac Asimov (!)... "who's that?" Aug 16 13:06:08 * aquatix is reading the Foundation series Aug 16 13:06:31 <CptLaptop> ever considered an e-ink device? Aug 16 13:06:58 <aquatix> yeah Aug 16 13:07:02 <aquatix> too expensive Aug 16 13:07:07 <aquatix> iliad would be awesome Aug 16 13:07:08 <dannym> aquatix: ah, that one is great :) a story that goes over a looong loong time in the story's history :) Aug 16 13:07:15 <dannym> asedeno: (Foundation) Aug 16 13:07:20 <aquatix> dannym: i'm with the second book now Aug 16 13:07:20 <dannym> oops Aug 16 13:07:51 <aquatix> forward the foundation Aug 16 13:08:17 <CptLaptop> think the sony reader is 300 or so on amazon Aug 16 13:08:35 * aquatix prefers an open reader, like the iliad Aug 16 13:08:41 <aquatix> thing even has touchscreen Aug 16 13:08:45 <aquatix> wacom or something Aug 16 13:08:49 <aquatix> note taking++ Aug 16 13:08:50 <CptLaptop> holy shit 500 euros Aug 16 13:09:13 <jaska> 500e for what? Aug 16 13:09:43 <CptLaptop> iliad Aug 16 13:10:00 <jaska> for a book reader.. ugh Aug 16 13:10:04 <aquatix> that's why i don't have one yet :) Aug 16 13:10:11 <aquatix> they said prices would come down Aug 16 13:10:14 <aquatix> still waiting ;) Aug 16 13:10:21 <aquatix> but i don't consider the others Aug 16 13:10:24 <aquatix> way too closed Aug 16 13:10:42 <aquatix> iliad reads pdf, txt, images, palmdoc and a lot more Aug 16 13:10:56 <aquatix> 1024x768 screen Aug 16 13:11:32 <CptLaptop> mice Aug 16 13:11:33 <dannym> I have mixed feelings about the iliad... tried my co-worker's... Aug 16 13:11:45 <dannym> the way to turn pages is nice Aug 16 13:11:58 <aquatix> using my se m600i smartphone for reading books nowadays Aug 16 13:12:06 <dannym> a huge huge vertical button which you drag right turn to the next page Aug 16 13:12:22 <dannym> (kinda like with a digital joystick, just with one axis :D) Aug 16 13:12:52 <dannym> but the screen refresh is reaaaally slow... if you thought FBReader was slow, wait for that refresh... Aug 16 13:13:01 <dannym> you can literally see it turning the pixels... Aug 16 13:13:12 <dannym> (well, the balls) Aug 16 13:13:30 <aquatix> wow, fbreader in portrait mode with the +/- buttons is awesome Aug 16 13:13:43 <aquatix> dannym: yeah Aug 16 13:13:47 <aquatix> one of my nitpicks too Aug 16 13:13:56 <aquatix> let's hope they come up with a new one Aug 16 13:14:05 <lcuk> with faster balls Aug 16 13:14:09 <aquatix> doesn't even have to do colours Aug 16 13:14:10 <aquatix> yeah Aug 16 13:14:21 <aquatix> ereader: now with faster balls Aug 16 13:14:47 <dannym> hehehe Aug 16 13:14:50 <lcuk> ereader: we can rotate your balls at 30fps Aug 16 13:15:44 <aquatix> *ouch* Aug 16 13:15:46 <aquatix> meh Aug 16 13:15:57 <aquatix> how can i add a complete dir to fbreader's library? Aug 16 13:16:31 <lcuk> it seems to have a mind of its own - just stop looking at it and add single files as required, then at some point in the future it will add the rest Aug 16 13:16:54 <lcuk> im not meant to be here now am i Aug 16 13:16:56 <dannym> aquatix: I just enabled the file manager's file type connection. Aug 16 13:17:13 <dannym> aquatix: association* Aug 16 13:17:23 <dannym> aquatix: and usual open the books from the file manager. Aug 16 13:18:16 <lcuk> for a media scanner (documents images movies etc) am i best to default the folders to ~/MyDocs;mmc1;mmc2 ? Aug 16 13:18:19 <dannym> (what is it with adding a mini file manager to each and every app anyway? Is there some advantage to that which I don't know yet?) Aug 16 13:18:36 <aquatix> dannym: heh, k Aug 16 13:18:44 <lcuk> dannym, for the book reader a library is important: you need to know what you have read and where you are upto Aug 16 13:19:15 <lcuk> and since you have a list of the active books it makes sense to give it a ui and allow the user to continue doing things with them Aug 16 13:19:20 <aquatix> wow, this is quite awesome; white text on black bg, portrait and doing page next with + Aug 16 13:19:23 * aquatix likes Aug 16 13:19:26 <lcuk> and since the library is there it makes sense to allow add new entry Aug 16 13:19:44 <dannym> lcuk: ah, I see... makes sense... Aug 16 13:19:45 <lcuk> aquatix, turn the brightness right down at night as well Aug 16 13:19:58 <aquatix> lcuk: does so automatically already Aug 16 13:20:00 * dannym remembers what he read himself :) Aug 16 13:20:13 <lcuk> and where you are upto everytime? Aug 16 13:20:15 <aquatix> i have it turned quite low already Aug 16 13:20:20 <lcuk> i just like to open the book reader and carry on Aug 16 13:22:11 <dannym> lcuk: yeah, FBReader the position within the file (also in the file manager case). Aug 16 13:22:29 <dannym> lcuk: so it will scroll to where I was within the file when I reopen the file. Aug 16 13:23:13 <dannym> (hmm.. the "jstar" text editor does, too. "vi" does, too. I think it's quite usual to :D) Aug 16 13:23:16 <lcuk> yer, but i dont like to have to go back to my bookcase and find my book each night Aug 16 13:23:49 <lcuk> i just reach over to my nightstand and pick up my current book ("My selection/fbreader") Aug 16 13:24:18 <dannym> lcuk: (yeah, FBReader auto-reopens the book that was open the last time when I start it :)) Aug 16 13:25:13 * aquatix did `look in subdirs' and now fbreader hangs with 100% cpu Aug 16 13:25:15 <dannym> lcuk: But I get your point, the filesystem is not in read order and so you use the prog since it lets you put your books in some order. Aug 16 13:25:18 <aquatix> fun, fun Aug 16 13:25:49 <aquatix> yay Aug 16 13:25:53 <dannym> aquatix: :( Aug 16 13:25:56 <lcuk> aquatix, just leave it for a while and let it scan all the books Aug 16 13:26:09 <lcuk> its recursively scanning through wherever you told it to Aug 16 13:26:39 <lcuk> and back through symlinks and aover the hills and checking your neighbours cabinet and the book store and the factory and the bins over there Aug 16 13:27:12 <lcuk> but it will finish eventually (estimated sometime middle of september 2046) Aug 16 13:27:13 <dannym> hehehe Aug 16 13:27:28 <aquatix> lcuk: it came back indeed, hence my `yay' Aug 16 13:27:31 <dannym> it will crash in 2038 because of time_t overrun :D Aug 16 13:27:35 <aquatix> ghehe Aug 16 13:27:51 <lcuk> lol or sometime before when the asteroid hits Aug 16 13:28:36 <aquatix> 2012 Aug 16 13:29:03 <dannym> hehe. 5th September 2012 ? :) Aug 16 13:29:05 <lcuk> it might have reached sentience before then however - reading all those books makes it super intelligent Aug 16 13:29:10 <lcuk> dont let it have access to the net Aug 16 13:29:17 <aquatix> lcuk: too late Aug 16 13:29:18 <aquatix> wifi is on Aug 16 13:29:21 <lcuk> you know it will because all the balls will start rotating Aug 16 13:29:30 <aquatix> and it read the Dune series and Stephen King stuff Aug 16 13:29:39 * aquatix is starting to get scared Aug 16 13:29:57 <aquatix> that combination can't be good :) Aug 16 13:29:59 <lcuk> if its anything like me it wont get into dune - ive been stuck re-reading the first 30 pages before giving up for ages Aug 16 13:30:17 * lcuk is a known space niven fan Aug 16 13:31:00 * aquatix has read the first 3 or 4 Dune books when he was 12, 13 Aug 16 13:31:36 <lcuk> i was reading tolkien back then Aug 16 13:32:03 <aquatix> only read the Hobbit Aug 16 13:32:06 <aquatix> too much damn singing :) Aug 16 13:32:19 <lcuk> lol Aug 16 13:32:21 <lcuk> anyway the dead bodies are gonna be bored waiting for me Aug 16 13:32:31 * lcuk goes again Aug 16 13:33:45 <lcuk> *bodyworlds Aug 16 13:35:29 <aquatix> lcuk: hf Aug 16 13:35:32 * RST38h read Hobbit in Ukrainian when he was 12 year old Aug 16 13:35:38 <aquatix> hm, adding books to series is quite cool Aug 16 13:35:58 * aquatix read the hobbit when the first movie was about to be released Aug 16 13:36:07 <aquatix> didn't bother with the trilogy Aug 16 13:41:50 <aquatix> hm, disk world Aug 16 13:42:05 <aquatix> er, discworld of course Aug 16 13:42:39 <RST38h> [and it left him fucked up for the rest of his life] Aug 16 13:44:18 <dannym> aquatix: I think the Discworld game forever changed my brain to prefer sarcasm :) Aug 16 13:44:25 <aquatix> lol Aug 16 13:44:29 <aquatix> never played the game Aug 16 13:44:31 <dannym> (and later, the books :D) Aug 16 13:44:37 <aquatix> RST38h: i was fucked up to begin with ;) Aug 16 13:44:52 <aquatix> hm, how to prevent screen dimming to kick in while reading :/ Aug 16 13:45:10 <aquatix> dannym: you played the MUD? Aug 16 13:46:46 <dannym> aquatix: in "Control > Screen", set "duration" to 2 minutes or so... Aug 16 13:46:53 <dannym> aquatix: that one <http://www.lspace.org/games/discworld/> :) Aug 16 13:47:16 <aquatix> http://discworld.atuin.net/lpc/ <- mud Aug 16 13:47:38 <aquatix> heh, looks interesting Aug 16 13:47:49 <dannym> aquatix: The "hero" Rincewind and the librarian (guess which is which :D) <http://www.lspace.org/ftp/games/discworld2/screenshots/dw208.gif> Aug 16 13:48:13 <aquatix> rincewind is the doofy one ;) Aug 16 13:48:15 <aquatix> oh wait :P Aug 16 13:48:22 <dannym> hehehe Aug 16 13:48:33 * aquatix loves the librarian Aug 16 13:49:04 <dannym> yeah, great... and interesting stuff in his library, too :) Aug 16 13:49:17 <aquatix> those books on ice for example ;) Aug 16 13:49:31 <dannym> yeah :D Aug 16 13:49:36 <dannym> aquatix: if you aint seen dancing skeletons yet: <http://www.lspace.org/ftp/games/discworld2/screenshots/dw209.gif> Aug 16 13:49:55 <aquatix> *g* Aug 16 13:50:56 <dannym> aquatix: oh yeah, the treasure chest at the bottom of <http://www.lspace.org/ftp/games/discworld2/screenshots/dw215.gif> *does* run from you sometimes Aug 16 13:51:04 <dannym> aquatix: (it's the inventory) Aug 16 13:53:30 <aquatix> looks weird Aug 16 13:53:37 <aquatix> i have a better mental picture of it Aug 16 13:53:46 <aquatix> dammit, started reading one of them again Aug 16 13:54:13 <aquatix> [10 - Moving Pictures] Aug 16 13:54:31 <aquatix> i started from the beginning a while ago Aug 16 13:55:38 <dannym> aquatix: oh, haven't read that one yet :) Aug 16 13:56:03 <aquatix> dannym: me neither Aug 16 14:14:49 <RST38h> Gentlemen , whoever wanted to test SlideRule, get the latest version here: Aug 16 14:15:10 <RST38h> http://fms.komkon.org/SlideRule/sliderule_1.0.0-1_armel.deb Aug 16 14:17:41 <GAN800> lardman, you didn't follow a bug. . . . Aug 16 14:17:52 <GAN800> s/follow/file/ Aug 16 14:17:52 <infobot> GAN800 meant: lardman, you didn't file a bug. . . . Aug 16 14:18:34 <dannym_> back... Aug 16 14:19:51 <dannym_> anyone knows what one uses nowadays in the non-DEVFS days to say "if product_id == <whatever> load <foo kernel module>"? Aug 16 14:20:27 <aquatix> RST38h: oh, let me wget Aug 16 14:21:35 <aquatix> mime sketch/png? Aug 16 14:22:37 <dannym> I found a very convoluted way to be something like: SYSFS{idVendor}=="0af0", SYSFS{idProduct}=="d033", PROGRAM="/bin/uname -r", RUN+="/sbin/insmod /lib/modules/%c/kernel/drivers/net/wwan/hso.ko" Aug 16 14:22:42 <dannym> but they can't be serious? Aug 16 14:23:29 <aquatix> they aren't, it should have define 0xDEADBEEF in there somewhere too Aug 16 14:23:35 <aquatix> [sorry, i'm a tad lame today] Aug 16 14:23:57 <dannym> err :D Aug 16 14:30:20 <dannym> aquatix: about the "sketch/png" mime before, yeah, that's a really official mime type (not :D)... but Xournal uses that for its file type associations :) Aug 16 14:30:22 <dannym> in GNU Makefiles, what is the difference between "=" and ":=" ? Aug 16 14:31:40 <dannym> (why doesn't Xournal just use SVG? Or is it overkill for its uses? :)) Aug 16 14:36:27 <RST38h> svg is an overkill for just about everything Aug 16 14:36:34 <RST38h> but still... Aug 16 14:48:47 <dannym> aaargh. Aug 16 14:49:00 <RST38h> did something crash? Aug 16 14:49:05 <dannym> I'll never say anything bad again about the Gentoo build system. Aug 16 14:49:14 <dannym> the Debian build system is way more convoluted. Aug 16 14:49:34 <dannym> RST38h: worse, it's ignoring commands :) Aug 16 14:50:06 <dannym> RST38h: you don't know by chance how the install part of "dpkg-buildpackage" works? Aug 16 14:50:37 <RST38h> no idea, I ignore it completely Aug 16 14:50:40 <dannym> RST38h: I mean the part that comes after "make install" of the package and collects the files so installed (into some tempdir) and puts them into a DEB file Aug 16 14:50:44 <dannym> RST38h: hehehe Aug 16 14:52:46 <dannym> what's a "dh_install -p"? I found <http://xgen.iit.edu/cgi-bin/man/man2html?1+dh_install> and that doesn't even mention that "-p" exists :( Aug 16 14:53:07 <dannym> (and there's no "man" in Scratchbox - and I have no Debian host system - so...) Aug 16 14:54:05 <dannym> can someone who has Debian run "man 1 dh_install" and/or "man 7 debhelper" please? :) Aug 16 14:54:16 <Mace_> gentoo sucks when it breaks Aug 16 14:54:48 <jott> dannym: what do you want to know? Aug 16 14:54:58 <Mace_> i had a python problem that was an absolute pain Aug 16 14:55:16 <dannym> jott: what "dh_install"'s option "-p" is. Aug 16 14:55:40 <jott> -ppackage, --package=package Aug 16 14:55:40 <jott> Act on the package named "package". This option may be specified multiple times to make debhelper operate on a given set of packages. Aug 16 14:56:14 <RST38h> http://rutube.ru/tracks/929140.html?v=d01cfa06a2c03a3ad9011cc442e95892 <==== What the hell is he doing? Aug 16 14:56:41 <dannym> Mace_: yes, but that's merely a problem of the ... err... packages themselves, not the package build/install system. But I know what you mean... Aug 16 14:56:54 <RST38h> qwerty: Get a new copy of SlideRule Aug 16 14:56:57 <RST38h> same url Aug 16 14:57:20 <dannym> Mace_: updating Python on Gentoo is evil anyway since the package manager itself uses it and so it can easily shoot itself ;) Aug 16 14:57:50 <qwerty12> RST38h: Will do, thanks Aug 16 14:58:08 <Mace_> exactly Aug 16 14:58:20 <Mace_> that is the problem i had Aug 16 14:58:37 <jott> RST38h: haha :) Aug 16 14:58:39 <dannym> Mace_: but in Gentoo they install the new package _before_ they remove the old one :) I've seen build systems (*cough* *cough* Solaris) that will merrily 'uninstall the old version of "libc" first' and 'then install the newrqwrqw@*! NO SYSTEM' ;) Aug 16 14:58:48 <jott> RST38h: (the video) Aug 16 14:58:54 * RST38h still suspects this video to be fake though Aug 16 14:59:15 <dannym> Mace_: (and that without asking beforehand :)) Aug 16 14:59:22 <jott> yeah not unlikely, still funny :) Aug 16 15:00:20 <Mace_> is there an epiphanny for maemo? Aug 16 15:00:20 <dannym> jott: mmm... what is a "package"? does it mean something like "if $subsection == <whatever_was_-p's_arg> dh_install_body else skip" ? Aug 16 15:00:49 <Mace_> i'd love to run that instead of the stock browser Aug 16 15:01:24 <Mace_> epiphany works with zimbra properly on the n800 in nit-debian Aug 16 15:01:35 <dannym> jott: that is, it waits until it's actually building (say) "xyz-dev" part of "xyz" and only then, dh_install does something? Aug 16 15:01:40 <Mace_> the ajax interface Aug 16 15:01:41 <jott> dannym: the subpackage if your build consists of more than one pacakge. Aug 16 15:01:51 <dannym> *the "dh_install -pxyz-dev" does something? Aug 16 15:02:32 <jott> dannym: basically dh_install -pfoo will copy the file to debian/foo/ Aug 16 15:03:38 <dannym> jott: okay... and how does it go into the correct DEB from there? Aug 16 15:05:12 <Mace_> maemo.org seems messed up Aug 16 15:05:15 <jott> dannym: in the end dh_builddeb Aug 16 15:05:29 <jott> dannym: just let dh_make create the initial sturcture ;) Aug 16 15:05:49 <dannym> ah, *checks* Aug 16 15:05:54 <dannym> (btw, <http://pastebin.com/m6f21bcfc>) Aug 16 15:07:41 <jott> dannym: check that the *.install files everything you want to have in the package Aug 16 15:08:10 <jott> ...list/contain.. Aug 16 15:08:26 <dannym> jott: I added a "dh_builddeb -p hso-driver" and it's there now :D Aug 16 15:09:05 <dannym> jott: the next time I'll start afresh and use dh_make to create the structure, I guess... this time I tweaked an existing debian port (mistake. miistake :D) Aug 16 15:10:50 <aquatix> RST38h: lol, looks like he's eating his tie Aug 16 15:10:52 <dannym> jott: thanks :D so one needs to do "dh_builddeb" for each of the "packages" of a "build" manually :) Aug 16 15:11:02 <aquatix> first i thought he was sniffing ladies underwear :P Aug 16 15:11:33 <jott> dannym: you could leave out the -p part and then it should build all packages :) Aug 16 15:13:09 <dannym> jott: heh. Good to know :) Aug 16 15:16:18 <dannym> jott: Cool. I have a HSO modem driver on garage.maemo.org now which can build to a binary DEB file on its own... thank you ^^ Aug 16 15:16:32 <dannym> (or, rather, two DEB files...) Aug 16 15:16:43 <dannym> what's the convention for metapackages in Debian (or Maemo)? Aug 16 15:17:40 <dannym> In this case it's like thi: to actually be able to use the Modem driver, you first have to switch the Modem itself from CDROM ("install CD") to MODEM mode using "usbmodeswitch". Aug 16 15:18:05 <dannym> "usbmodeswitch" does that using the SCSI generic device that appears and so it needs "sg". Aug 16 15:18:07 <pupnik_> congratulations dannym Aug 16 15:18:31 <qwerty12> dannym: Tried out usb mode switch yet? :) Aug 16 15:18:34 <dannym> pupnik_: thanks :) Aug 16 15:18:38 <qwerty12> *usbmodeswitch :) Aug 16 15:20:06 * pupnik_ waves hand in front of qwerty12's face Aug 16 15:20:26 * qwerty12 shoots it down Aug 16 15:22:11 <dannym> qwerty12: yes, although I didn't get it to work (as in, actually switch the modem) yet Aug 16 15:23:03 <dannym> qwerty12: I'm still struggling with the config file. Does it allow multiple entries and will try the one that matches? The config file has a weird format I've never seen before (duplicate keys without grouping) Aug 16 15:23:20 <dannym> qwerty12: (but it does build and package and so on :)) Aug 16 15:23:34 <dannym> although we still have to work out where to put "sg"? Aug 16 15:23:52 <qwerty12> dannym: In all honesty, I haven't tried usbmodeswitch, I just debianised it :) Aug 16 15:24:06 <dannym> reminds me, Aug 16 15:24:07 <dannym> zap: are you there? :) Aug 16 15:24:48 <dannym> qwerty12: I see. Well, I'll get it to work (or revert to Rezero) Aug 16 15:25:29 <qwerty12> Yeah, Rezero sounds like a better choice. I wish I had a 3G modem to actually try this stuff out :/ Aug 16 15:26:26 <dannym> qwerty12: I wish I had enough Wireless / a cellphone with HSDPA so I didn't have to have a 3G modem ;) Aug 16 15:26:40 <dannym> oh well ^^ Aug 16 15:26:52 <str8edge> hey can you customize the locations for the world clock to add a new city? Aug 16 15:27:16 <qwerty12> dannym: Are you on a contract? Get them to upgrade. Aug 16 15:27:29 <str8edge> There's nothing for my specfic timezone in the n810 (cst/cst) Aug 16 15:28:50 <dannym> qwerty12: yeah. In the long term, that sounds like a good idea :) Right now, I foolishly upgraded a few months ago to some not quite-as-ancient phone (but still ancient enough) so I'll wait until my "points" recovered a bit... Aug 16 15:29:12 <dannym> qwerty12: also have to research which phone actually works (quickly enough etc) as a modem for the N8x0 ... Aug 16 15:29:23 <dannym> (I think there was a Wiki page for that... hmmm :)) Aug 16 15:30:44 <dannym> qwerty12: btw, can you read the source code of usb_modeswitch? I can't, for the life of me, figure out what the "else" in "usb_modeswitch.c" line 246 belongs to with all that weird indentation :) Aug 16 15:30:46 <dannym> *runs indent* ;P Aug 16 15:31:06 <qwerty12> str8edge: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=188982 Aug 16 15:31:44 <qwerty12> dannym: no :/ Aug 16 15:32:52 <dannym> qwerty12: what the "usb_modeswitch" actually says when I run is something like "found 1 device" and in the next line "found no device, are you sure it's plugged in?" O_o Aug 16 15:33:21 * dannym digs around in the newly indented source code... aah... better. Aug 16 15:33:59 <qwerty12> Sounds like usb_modeswitch is ******, hmm, does it have any advantages over Rezero? Aug 16 15:34:28 <n800n> ******? Aug 16 15:34:44 <qwerty12> fucked Aug 16 15:34:57 <n800n> ah, ****** Aug 16 15:35:27 <str8edge> qwerty12: it's even for my city.. perfect! thanks, man! Aug 16 15:35:45 <dannym> qwerty12: supports more devices, it seems. Wonder if that's an advantage, though ;) Aug 16 15:35:53 <_julian> anyone here who did develop qt4 on maemo yet? Aug 16 15:36:09 <qwerty12> str8edge: lol, nice coincidence :). No problem Aug 16 15:36:58 <qwerty12> dannym: I'm not sure if this program is actually liking the tablet. May be why the original author didn't compile it for N8x0 (he has a N810) Aug 16 15:42:56 <jott> _julian: yes :) Aug 16 15:44:59 <dannym> qwerty12: aha. If I remove "rezero", it works since it won't be automacially changed before "usb_modeswitch" even sees it ;) Aug 16 15:45:59 <qwerty12> Ah Aug 16 15:47:02 * dannym bangs head on keyboard Aug 16 15:47:03 <_julian> jott: if I set up a maemo sdk and install the qt packages should I then be able to compile plain qt apps in there? Aug 16 15:47:09 * qwerty12 is annoyed to find his mmc card running in 25Hz and not 48Hz >.< Aug 16 15:48:26 <dannym> qwerty12: trying the MMC kernel patch? :) Aug 16 15:48:56 <jott> _julian: yes. Aug 16 15:49:12 <qwerty12> dannym: Yeah :). I've installed the patches of Philip Langdale's fine + I mixed it with a bit of code by fanoush :/ Aug 16 15:49:17 <_julian> jott: cool (c: Aug 16 15:49:20 <_julian> will give that a shot Aug 16 15:49:42 <jott> _julian: just add extra-devel repository and install the -dev packages. Aug 16 15:49:46 <dannym> qwerty12: I tried it earlier and forgot that then, rotation support would be missing :( Aug 16 15:50:02 <dannym> qwerty12: so reverting kernel now... Aug 16 15:50:52 <qwerty12> dannym: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=202849&postcount=19 Aug 16 15:55:09 <dannym> qwerty12: cool... thanks ^^ Aug 16 15:55:59 <qwerty12> no problem :). Real work is jott's and Philip Langdale's :) Aug 16 15:57:00 <dannym> thanks, jott, philipl. :) Aug 16 16:03:37 <dannym> qwerty12: (I'd use the "Thank" button on the forum but as you maybe remember it doesn't appear in my browser... and I couldn't be assed to find out why it doesn't ;)) Aug 16 16:04:01 <qwerty12> dannym: hehe, no problems :D Aug 16 16:04:48 * qwerty12 keeps switching on the tablet in hopes that it forgets the battery is dead and lets me boot. I need to check the uname ffs >.< Aug 16 16:05:02 <lbt> what uname? Aug 16 16:05:30 <qwerty12> uname for the kernel on my tablet. I need to check I flashed the right one. Aug 16 16:05:42 <lbt> ok - I can't check that :) Aug 16 16:05:48 <qwerty12> :) Aug 16 16:07:08 * qwerty12 jacks my brothers charger Aug 16 16:07:18 <dannym> hehehe Aug 16 16:07:40 <crashanddie> hmm Aug 16 16:07:54 <crashanddie> I have this screen update problem in xchat Aug 16 16:08:07 <crashanddie> and sometimes, not all characters (if any) are shown when someone types a line Aug 16 16:08:17 <crashanddie> for a second, I saw: Aug 16 16:08:18 <crashanddie> * qwerty12 jacks my brother Aug 16 16:08:26 <qwerty12> lol Aug 16 16:08:35 <qwerty12> Hehe, a font problem? Aug 16 16:08:38 <dannym> qwerty12: you have no idea how that sounds after having seen the movie "Robots" just now ;) Aug 16 16:08:41 <crashanddie> I'm going back to sleep now Aug 16 16:09:04 <qwerty12> dannym: do I want to know? :P Aug 16 16:09:08 <dannym> no ;) Aug 16 16:10:27 <dannym> qwerty12: unless your brother is a robot and you just unplugged him :D Aug 16 16:11:36 <qwerty12> In that case, I'll keep his charger forever :P Aug 16 16:13:43 * qwerty12 has another crack at cx3110x. Although not as a much a priority to me now as "uname manipulation" allows the original cx3110x to load up in a preempt kernel. Aug 16 16:15:36 <dannym> qwerty12: what are you plotting? Preemptive N8x0 desktop? :) Aug 16 16:16:53 <qwerty12> I just wanted to see if I could get a preempt kernel that worked without having no wifi and one that didn't need no-lifeguard-reset to run. Now that I have a preempt kernel, I still fail to see any speed increases :) Aug 16 16:17:06 <qwerty12> afaik, 770's kernel is preempt by default Aug 16 16:20:00 * johnx usually finds preempt kernels slower Aug 16 16:20:36 <johnx> or rather, they feel slower under the workloads I usually throw at them Aug 16 16:28:08 <qwerty12> Any ideas what this error message means? http://pastebin.com/d63a2acb . I wouldn't care usually, but insmod won't insert the module either due to unknown symbols. Aug 16 16:31:38 <dannym> qwerty12: some of the missing symbols are from "umac.ko"... is that loaded? Aug 16 16:32:45 <qwerty12> dannym: it was, thanks for that. looks like i'm sol then as umac sources aren't available :) Aug 16 16:33:24 <dannym> qwerty12: the mamona guys have dummy stubs, if that helps.. Aug 16 16:33:46 <qwerty12> dannym: it does, thanks a lot, checking now... Aug 16 16:44:34 <dannym> hmmm, do I have to request SSH access for "garage.maemo.org" spearately? Aug 16 16:44:37 <dannym> (for "dput") Aug 16 16:45:34 <dannym> separately* Aug 16 16:47:46 <lbt> dannym: once you get the invite you can submit a gpg key and ssh key Aug 16 16:47:55 <lbt> then dput works fine Aug 16 16:48:30 <dannym> lbt: invite? Hmm... *amnesic* Aug 16 16:48:52 <lbt> are you trying to submit packages? Aug 16 16:49:01 <lbt> for */extras-* Aug 16 16:49:02 <dannym> lbt: yes Aug 16 16:49:07 <dannym> lbt: yes Aug 16 16:49:16 <lbt> https://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Aug 16 17:06:01 <qwerty12> w00t, after a lot of makefile modifications, I got the cx3110x to build successfully, thanks dannym! Aug 16 17:06:20 <qwerty12> (and the mamona team) Aug 16 17:08:25 <zap> why you have rebuilt it? Aug 16 17:08:38 <zap> does it have some modifications? (injection?) Aug 16 17:09:05 <qwerty12> Nope, plain cx3110x, I want to rebuild all the modules in initfs against my preempt kernel tree Aug 16 17:09:21 <qwerty12> Except for umac and mtum, they are all rebuilt now Aug 16 17:10:44 * zap just submited the request for a "kernel modules" project which provides a kernel module build environment Aug 16 17:11:00 <qwerty12> Cool :) Aug 16 17:11:11 <qwerty12> Be nice from all the symlinking I do :) Aug 16 17:11:19 <RST38h> zap: get new sliderule Aug 16 17:11:30 <RST38h> zap: it should save the tape roll now Aug 16 17:11:45 <zap> cool Aug 16 17:21:42 <crashanddie_> hehe :D Aug 16 17:22:59 <dannym> hmm? :) Aug 16 17:27:40 <zap> RST38h: its allright except that if I delete the dangling "0.000000" it does not save that :) I prefer starting from a clean sheet Aug 16 17:32:36 <Luria> anyone got a usb tv out device to work with an IT? Aug 16 17:36:19 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles: yo Aug 16 17:36:25 <rm_you> which logos should i put on shirts Aug 16 17:36:27 <zap> hehe, my father-in-law broke the LCD on his N95, how he can use it only when connected to a TV :] Aug 16 17:36:30 <rm_you> right now i am thinking these: Aug 16 17:36:52 <rm_you> http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo_org_logo_contest_narbat_12.png http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_underscore_5.png http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_setan666_1.png Aug 16 17:37:00 <rm_you> need to do a few more Aug 16 17:37:08 <rm_you> want to have a full 6 days worth of maemo shirts :P Aug 16 17:37:41 <rm_you> thoughts anyone? Aug 16 17:38:39 * zap likes 2nd Aug 16 17:38:52 <rm_you> yeah well, those three i will definitely do Aug 16 17:38:55 <rm_you> need more suggestionsd Aug 16 17:52:56 <GAN800> rm_you, the Apple Works one. :P Aug 16 17:54:21 <crashanddie> rm_you, do you want me to be honest ? Aug 16 17:55:40 <GAN800> You and khertan will be a great pair to photograph if you use the Apple Works one. Aug 16 17:56:16 <GAN800> lardman still fails at filing that bug Aug 16 20:15:17 <gregorovius> is there a simple text editor available for nits I can use over ssh? Aug 16 20:15:21 <gregorovius> like nano Aug 16 20:16:35 <Toba__> yes Aug 16 20:17:06 <Toba__> ...oh i thought you meant on a real linux distro. Aug 16 20:17:22 <GAN800> vi Aug 16 20:17:28 <flo_lap> re Aug 16 20:17:50 <GAN800> Hey, florian Aug 16 20:17:57 <gregorovius> I tried vi, but it's acting funky over ssh Aug 16 20:18:07 <legind> gregorovius, try vim Aug 16 20:18:29 <legind> vi shouldn't act funky over ssh Aug 16 20:18:39 <legind> or, any more funky than it usually acts Aug 16 20:18:42 <legind> ;) Aug 16 20:18:57 <Kegetys> nano works fine for me Aug 16 20:19:50 <gregorovius> I can't find nano in my nit Aug 16 20:20:03 <gregorovius> but I found midnight commander, so all is good Aug 16 20:20:04 <Toba__> I can't find any nits in my nano Aug 16 20:20:07 <Toba__> maybe I should shave it Aug 16 20:20:37 <Kegetys> apt-get install nano Aug 16 20:20:50 <Kegetys> or nano-tiny Aug 16 20:27:35 <RST38h> http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/35391/title/Do_subatomic_particles_have_free_will%3F Aug 16 20:27:39 <RST38h> Scary stuff Aug 16 20:34:07 <fred> Hi - I'm trying to get my qt4.4-based media player working on my N810 - the major problem is "Warning: you do not seem to have the package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good installed" - I do - and media playback doesn't work in my player. Aug 16 20:34:40 <fred> a secondary one is QDesktopServices::storageLocation() seems to be completely arbitrary, but I can hack around that if needed; I've got no idea on the former though, and would appreciate any suggestions Aug 16 20:43:50 <gregorovius> how can I change my NIT's hostname? Aug 16 20:44:02 <gregorovius> so I can 'ssh mynokia' Aug 16 20:44:44 <arachnist> /etc/hosts and /etc/hostname Aug 16 20:47:12 <gregorovius> thanks arachnist Aug 16 21:10:02 <crashanddie> gregorovius, that's the local hostname Aug 16 21:10:07 <crashanddie> gregorovius, not the network name Aug 16 21:10:47 <gregorovius> crashanddie: huhm, what do I need to modify then? Aug 16 21:11:07 <crashanddie> gregorovius, change the /etc/hosts on your desktop/laptop Aug 16 21:11:17 <gregorovius> but I have a router with dhcp Aug 16 21:11:28 <crashanddie> usually the IP will stay the same Aug 16 21:11:45 <timely> you should configure your router Aug 16 21:11:48 <crashanddie> depends if you a stable DNS or not Aug 16 21:11:50 <timely> it can probably assign an ip address Aug 16 21:12:06 * timely can't remember if the tablets support getting names sent by dhcp Aug 16 21:12:07 <crashanddie> using the MAC address of the NIT, you can tell your router to always give the same IP address Aug 16 21:12:14 <fred> crashanddie: quite a few routers automatically create dns entries based on the local hostname when given by the DHCP client Aug 16 21:12:15 <timely> you can probably tell your router to provide some dns too Aug 16 21:12:38 <gregorovius> fred: I thought that would happen, but so far no luck Aug 16 21:12:54 <crashanddie> gregorovius, tell your router to always provide the same IP address, and be done with it Aug 16 21:13:04 <fred> gregorovius: after changing the host files you may have to restart your {networkconnection,tablet}, or it might be that the n810 doesn't give a hostname Aug 16 21:13:04 <crashanddie> gregorovius, then just bind mynokia in /etc/hosts Aug 16 21:13:19 <crashanddie> fred, it doesn't, and probably his router/dns doesn't read it Aug 16 21:13:44 <fred> Actually, it definatlely does Aug 16 21:13:48 <gregorovius> I already restarted my NIT Aug 16 21:13:49 * fred just checked his logs and dns server on his router Aug 16 21:13:57 <crashanddie> ah ? Aug 16 21:14:01 <fred> at least on diablo. Aug 16 21:14:01 <crashanddie> It does ? Aug 16 21:14:04 <gregorovius> my router is displaying the new hostname Aug 16 21:14:05 <crashanddie> oh Aug 16 21:14:19 <gregorovius> but I don't know if it just mirrors the external dns or whatnot Aug 16 21:14:40 <crashanddie> gregorovius, do you use the DNS on your router ? Aug 16 21:15:12 <gregorovius> my resolv.conf points to my router's IP, so I guess I do Aug 16 21:15:30 <fred> ah, may have found the gstreamer issue with my player; I have chinook qt :| Aug 16 21:15:45 <gregorovius> btw, I'm looking at /etc/mce/mce.ini, what is exactly softpoweroff? Aug 16 21:16:58 * lcuk sees dead people Aug 16 21:17:19 <GeneralAntilles> gregorovius, it doesn't work Aug 16 21:17:21 <GeneralAntilles> ~softpoweroff Aug 16 21:17:26 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm, too bad Aug 16 21:17:28 <GeneralAntilles> bug #2400 Aug 16 21:17:36 <gregorovius> i'll check it out, thanks Aug 16 21:17:41 <GeneralAntilles> It's like a cooler, slicker, easier to use lock screen and keys Aug 16 21:17:44 <GeneralAntilles> But it's broken Aug 16 21:17:52 <GeneralAntilles> and I don't know if they'll ever ship a real fix Aug 16 21:17:56 <gregorovius> yeah, it sounded good Aug 16 21:18:16 <GeneralAntilles> It lets you switch into locked AND offline mode (or any combination) with just a longpress on the power key Aug 16 21:18:27 <gregorovius> i'm still waiting for proper ogg support :P Aug 16 21:18:41 <RST38h> http://fms.komkon.org/SlideRule/sliderule_1.0.0-1_armel.deb Aug 16 21:18:45 <GeneralAntilles> Prepare to wait Aug 16 21:18:49 <fred> isn't that in gstreamer-plugins-good ? Aug 16 21:18:54 <RST38h> GAN: Take a look at the above URL if interested Aug 16 21:19:01 <GeneralAntilles> Seems to be management and lawyer hold-up. Aug 16 21:19:05 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, what is it? Aug 16 21:19:08 <lcuk> long press of power turns things off - i would prefer to do it all with lock slider Aug 16 21:19:09 <RST38h> It is a calculator with some symbolic processing and a plotter Aug 16 21:19:19 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, cool. Aug 16 21:19:29 <RST38h> early beta Aug 16 21:33:21 <RST38h> sleep. Aug 16 21:39:06 <Andy80> hi all Aug 16 21:39:19 <Andy80> is maemo.org website down? Aug 16 21:39:55 <gregorovius> Andy80: seems down for me Aug 16 21:40:10 <Andy80> it is for me too :( Aug 16 21:40:44 <timely> who needs websites? Aug 16 21:41:11 <Andy80> timely: ? Aug 16 21:41:31 <Andy80> I just needed to access the wiki Aug 16 21:44:33 <henrique> lcuk: hi! Aug 16 21:45:05 <pupnik> [entertainment] best rant ever? http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/dec_francis/Dec-Francis-E_rant1.mp3 also _rant2.mp3, 3,4,5 Aug 16 21:45:24 <pupnik> (language, adult themes) Aug 16 21:45:38 <lcuk> \o hi henrique Aug 16 21:46:04 <henrique> lcuk: did you see my mail? Aug 16 21:46:38 <lcuk> no? gimme a mo Aug 16 21:46:42 <GeneralAntilles> Works fine here, Andy80. Aug 16 21:46:51 * lcuk checks all his accounts Aug 16 21:47:11 <henrique> lcuk: it is about liqbase heh Aug 16 21:47:41 <lcuk> yer just reading now Aug 16 21:47:53 <Andy80> GeneralAntilles: now it's working for me too, but only http://maemo.org Aug 16 21:48:05 <henrique> lcuk: right, thanks! Aug 16 21:48:10 <Andy80> GeneralAntilles: if you try to access http://wiki.maemo.org a blank page is loaded Aug 16 21:53:59 <lcuk> henrique, pm Aug 16 22:27:07 <iXce> hmm, is the gtk-update-icon-cache still mandatory for postinst scripts, or is it run when user/* apps are being setup ? Aug 16 22:27:53 <iXce> (because I installed the deb of an app which wasn't calling that, yet the icon was shown right after install in the menu) Aug 16 22:30:12 * moontiger wonders why sbox absolutely SUCKS so much... Aug 16 22:42:00 <Proteous> duh, what do you thing the "S" is for Aug 16 22:42:15 <melmoth> ca marche Aug 16 22:42:17 <melmoth> ousp Aug 16 22:42:22 <Proteous> exactly Aug 16 22:42:25 <Proteous> er Aug 16 22:50:21 <iXce> hmm, is it possible to update sbox's automake to 1.9 easily? Aug 16 22:55:11 <zap> sure Aug 16 22:55:17 <zap> apt-get install automake-1.9 Aug 16 22:55:20 <zap> easy, eh? Aug 16 22:55:47 <iXce> this doesn't work :) Aug 16 22:56:01 <zap> "automake1.9", sorry Aug 16 22:56:19 <iXce> nah I mean, I had tried this, but automake is /scratchbox/tools/bin/automake Aug 16 22:56:32 <iXce> which points to a scratchbox wrapper Aug 16 22:56:34 <zap> run automake-1.9 instead of "automake" Aug 16 22:56:55 <iXce> bah, you win :) Aug 16 22:56:58 <zap> and learn the wonders of the "Tab" key :) Aug 16 22:59:15 <iXce> ideally this shouldn't be needed :o (for instance I'm currently trying to compile pidgin 2.4.3 for diablo, and because of this it won't work with chinook packages, or I have missed something) Aug 16 22:59:55 <zap> well, the whole autoconf/automake thing is a pig pile of stinking shit^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hmess Aug 16 23:00:17 <iXce> yeah, autotools are sadly broken by concept :/ Aug 16 23:01:18 <iXce> but getting projects to use cmake/scons/whatever-else is not quite easy either, devs are anchored in their good old habits Aug 16 23:01:44 <zap> true, I'm anchored in my own build system :) Aug 16 23:02:21 <Proteous> I'm anchored to 200lbs of concrete on the ocean floor Aug 16 23:02:41 <Proteous> cement shoes you might say Aug 16 23:03:02 <Proteous> if it wasn't so dark down here you might be able to see the fishes Aug 16 23:03:17 <zap> I believe you're connected directly to the transatlantic cable? Aug 16 23:03:54 <Proteous> the bandwidth is amazing Aug 16 23:04:13 <zap> it sticks right into your @ss? :) Aug 16 23:04:16 <iXce> I've heard that fishes hardly do anything else than IRC Aug 16 23:04:24 <Proteous> although finding waterproof networking gear that will work at this depth is hard Aug 16 23:04:29 <iXce> which would explain why there's so much spare bandwidth :) Aug 16 23:04:46 * zap now understands what means "phishing" Aug 16 23:04:54 <iXce> haha Aug 16 23:05:06 <iXce> zap: hmpf, google won't tell me what your build system is, any hint? :) Aug 16 23:05:17 <Proteous> I'm in ur oceans, tapping ur cablz Aug 16 23:05:21 <zap> um, er Aug 16 23:05:30 <zap> why you would need it, it sucks anyway :) Aug 16 23:05:40 <iXce> curiosity :o Aug 16 23:06:02 <Proteous> think of the fishes! Aug 16 23:06:13 <zap> iXce: it's used in this project: http://svn.berlios.de/wsvn/lensfun/trunk/#_trunk_ Aug 16 23:06:32 <iXce> thanks Aug 16 23:07:40 <iXce> doesn't look that sucky, it's at quite short Aug 16 23:10:06 <zap> the most complex stuff is under build/mak/ Aug 16 23:10:38 <zap> but usually user doesn't have to mess with it Aug 16 23:29:11 <moontiger> does anybody know how to get a usb keyboard working with the n810? Aug 16 23:35:06 <tank-man> install one of those applets that toggle host mode Aug 16 23:38:08 <moontiger> tankman... yah i have that already ... problem is the n810 doesn do the numlock thing right so i cant use half the keys Aug 16 23:39:20 <lcuk> moontiger, what do you mean? the only restriction for host mode and usb keyboards is power as far as i know Aug 16 23:40:31 <jott> ..and the right settings for xkb :) Aug 16 23:41:07 <lcuk> yes jot, but thats not a usb specific issue Aug 16 23:41:20 <jott> no. just a usb keyboard issue :) Aug 16 23:41:36 <lcuk> dont bluetooth keyboards need remapping? Aug 16 23:41:44 <moontiger> so i have to do a custom xkb map? Aug 16 23:41:52 <jott> moontiger: that's my blind guess. Aug 16 23:42:02 <jott> (maybe there is a ready one) Aug 16 23:42:03 <lcuk> moontiger, whats actually happening Aug 16 23:42:11 <tank-man> my usb keyboard just works with my n800 Aug 16 23:42:12 <moontiger> my bluetooth works fine ... its just the non-standard layout ... the delay and the lack of number keys Aug 16 23:42:31 <moontiger> i have a mini usb keyboard that would be great to use... Aug 16 23:42:43 <moontiger> it works fine in otg or whatever mode (host i think) Aug 16 23:42:48 <lcuk> i dont get lag with my bt keyboard (or not noticable anyway?) Aug 16 23:43:02 <moontiger> but the numlock wont turn off so half the keys wont register with any apps on the n810 Aug 16 23:43:33 <moontiger> plugging it into my laptop usb port works fine Aug 16 23:43:35 <lcuk> i thought numlock was a hardware specific thing - the host ocmputer doesnt control it does it? Aug 16 23:43:39 <moontiger> (using it now to test) Aug 16 23:44:13 <moontiger> lcuk ... it just toggles some keycode settings in the codes sent thru to the host pc Aug 16 23:45:02 <moontiger> tankman... what usb keyboard are u using? Aug 16 23:45:09 <moontiger> how are you connecting it? Aug 16 23:45:23 <lcuk> yes, it sends different codes depending if the keyboard itself is in numlock mode - but thats not the job of the computer to decide what the keyboard sends is it? Aug 16 23:45:50 <moontiger> lcuk ... i dont think so but i think if a pin is held high the keyboard thinks numlock is set on or something Aug 16 23:46:16 <moontiger> what bluetooth kb do you use btw? Aug 16 23:46:23 <lcuk> apple thin Aug 16 23:46:30 <moontiger> oooooooooooh really?? Aug 16 23:46:34 <moontiger> and it works? Aug 16 23:46:52 <lcuk> yer, very nicely for what i use it for Aug 16 23:46:59 <moontiger> which is? Aug 16 23:47:03 <lcuk> typing.. Aug 16 23:47:06 <lcuk> and coding Aug 16 23:47:07 <moontiger> lol Aug 16 23:47:16 <moontiger> coding right ... it has [] and {} ? Aug 16 23:47:41 <lcuk> yer, im just used to a fullsize keyboard Aug 16 23:47:57 <lcuk> it only has backspace and no delete (or the other way round) Aug 16 23:48:02 <moontiger> right .... im trying to find a small kb that i can take with me when im on the road so to speak Aug 16 23:48:25 <lcuk> yer, ive got the 810 for most things, but if i need to sit down and do some actual work i take my apple Aug 16 23:48:42 <lcuk> its about the size of a book so fits in whichever bag ive got Aug 16 23:48:46 <moontiger> i have the 810 too but i find the lack of a tab key to be somewhat ridiculous Aug 16 23:48:54 <lcuk> agreed Aug 16 23:49:06 <moontiger> the apple keyboard isnt too big? Aug 16 23:49:19 <lcuk> http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=810cratelaptopmodetc6.jpg Aug 16 23:49:22 <lcuk> check for yourself Aug 16 23:49:28 <jott> moontiger: you can easily map the tab key. Aug 16 23:49:54 <moontiger> *laughs* thats awesome!! Aug 16 23:50:00 <moontiger> total geek you are :) Aug 16 23:50:23 <jott> and {} [] :) Aug 16 23:50:29 <lcuk> no, i couldnt hold it when reading in bed - the bezel is too thin Aug 16 23:50:46 <lcuk> and fbreader is too frisky with page moving Aug 16 23:50:47 <jott> lcuk is famous for his woodwork :P Aug 16 23:51:19 <lcuk> heh Aug 16 23:51:30 <jott> they come not only with computer problems but also shacky tables and chairs to him :P Aug 16 23:51:43 <moontiger> so cool .... but i find one-handed reading with fbreader works fine in bed for me Aug 16 23:52:00 <moontiger> jott ... how do i remap the keys? Aug 16 23:52:12 <moontiger> is it that dreadful xmodmap thing? Aug 16 23:52:44 <jott> xmodmap should only be used for temporary changes. Aug 16 23:52:54 <lcuk> i dont have to hold it up - when rotated portrait it rests on my chest and i just lightly grip - the old pda i used to use i could grip in a similar manner between my knuckles - at night im trying to relax and not have to grip anything Aug 16 23:53:17 <moontiger> lcuk... ok i get it ... works for me tho :) Aug 16 23:53:24 <moontiger> jott... so..... :) Aug 16 23:53:28 <jott> moontiger: see /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr Aug 16 23:53:33 <moontiger> ok cool :) Aug 16 23:53:53 <moontiger> what do you map those keys to btw? Aug 16 23:54:20 <lcuk> there is a tool to show you what keycodes are being returned from the keyboard i think Aug 16 23:54:30 <moontiger> xev does it i think no? Aug 16 23:54:45 <lcuk> its likely thats what im thinking of :) Aug 16 23:55:04 <moontiger> yah i had to map some mouse buttons on my laptop using that Aug 16 23:55:05 <jott> moontiger: http://slexy.org/view/s2LaXyFQR9 that's mine (for a german hw layout) Aug 16 23:55:11 <jott> but i think you can get the clue. Aug 16 23:55:16 <lcuk> you will need to know what codes your keyboard is sending so you can map them to useful keys Aug 16 23:55:20 <moontiger> thnx... looking now Aug 16 23:55:23 <jott> i also remapped the Chr key to be used as an extra modifier. Aug 16 23:55:50 <jott> (so you can press chr , . to get extra brackets etc :) Aug 16 23:56:42 <lcuk> im puttin my head back into some code Aug 16 23:56:58 <moontiger> thnx lcuk :) Aug 16 23:57:15 <lcuk> np Aug 16 23:57:18 * moontiger checks the n810... Aug 17 00:00:34 <moontiger> im so sick of sbox crashing all the time that i want to dev on the n810 Aug 17 00:01:32 <bef0rd> sbox doesn't crash for me Aug 17 00:03:02 <jott> doesn't crash here either. Aug 17 00:05:34 <lcuk> moontiger, few things about one device dev - gcc works, make works, but configure doesnt (has dependency for debiantools which would bornek system), depending upon cpu setting compiling can be 10x slower or 100x slower than average desktop running vmware - incremental updates taking a couple of seconds is fine, but large projects take a long time Aug 17 00:06:08 <lcuk> easier to figure out whats crashing sbox - its known stable on lots of systems Aug 17 00:06:12 <moontiger> hmmmmmmm thnx lcuk Aug 17 00:06:29 * pahartik upgraded "Nokia 770" to "Maemo 2008 HE" and wonders if building "microb-engine" from source is only way to upgrade browser at moment Aug 17 00:06:40 <moontiger> well its not sbox as such ... the diablo emulator stuff crashes on me a lot Aug 17 00:06:50 <lcuk> why use the emulator? Aug 17 00:06:56 <lcuk> don't you have a device? Aug 17 00:06:59 <moontiger> yes Aug 17 00:07:26 <jott> moontiger: i use the cvs-m version of qemu, works better here. Aug 17 00:07:34 <lcuk> if make; scp "newbinary ->n810/usr/bin"; fi Aug 17 00:07:56 <lcuk> +execute of course Aug 17 00:08:02 <jott> other than that you could also use sbrsh Aug 17 00:08:13 <moontiger> you have the usb networking thing set up? Aug 17 00:08:22 <lcuk> no, wifi ssh Aug 17 00:08:48 <lcuk> i used scratchbox for a couple of months at first before i moved ondevice Aug 17 00:09:40 <moontiger> im confused ... how does "n810/usr/bin" map to anything? Aug 17 00:09:56 <jott> you have to know that lcuk is a heavy smoker and coding in his cigarette breaks :) Aug 17 00:10:00 <moontiger> is that an scp thing? Aug 17 00:10:08 <jott> he just got the syntax wrong :) Aug 17 00:10:20 <jott> or semantics even :p Aug 17 00:10:38 <jott> but the message was "use scp to copy it over" :) Aug 17 00:10:40 <moontiger> ok cool np... so scp is the way to go over ssh Aug 17 00:10:51 <jott> you can also use sshfs .. Aug 17 00:11:09 <moontiger> sshfs works on the n810? Aug 17 00:11:12 <jott> yes Aug 17 00:11:26 * moontiger slaps forhead Aug 17 00:11:35 <moontiger> ok that would be A LOT easier Aug 17 00:11:46 <moontiger> then i could write and send Aug 17 00:12:08 <moontiger> ummmm where can i find sshfs? Aug 17 00:12:24 <jott> well actually for mounting the n810 on your desktop you don't need anything special but a running ssh server ;) Aug 17 00:12:51 <moontiger> ok hmmmm... so ssh server running on the n810 check... then how do i mount it on my desktop? Aug 17 00:12:51 <jott> other than that you can just install it. Aug 17 00:13:18 <jott> install sshfs and man sshfs? ;) Aug 17 00:13:27 <moontiger> on my laptop yes? Aug 17 00:13:58 <jott> basically mkdir n810 && sshfs n810:/home/user n810 Aug 17 00:14:20 <moontiger> jott... genius ... thanks so much :) Aug 17 00:14:31 <moontiger> doing it now Aug 17 00:14:53 <lcuk> you have to know that jott is a heavy superhero and helpsppl in his underpants and cape :) Aug 17 00:15:07 <jott> might be wise to do it outside of scratchbox and mount it somewhere in /scratchbox/home/user/$USER .. Aug 17 00:15:25 <moontiger> right yes Aug 17 00:15:39 <moontiger> for python i dont even need scratchbox anymore Aug 17 00:15:56 <lcuk> jott, the maemovmware image thing, is it possible to take that wholesale and install it natively on my laptop from the image? Aug 17 00:16:14 <lcuk> its just a ubuntu image isnt it Aug 17 00:16:17 <jott> uhm yes, i suppose that should work. Aug 17 00:16:32 <moontiger> thnx guys very much :) Aug 17 00:16:34 <lcuk> im just thinking its already configured Aug 17 00:16:43 <jott> there are various tutorials how to put a vmware image directly on the host. Aug 17 00:16:50 <moontiger> ive been a dev d=for many years but this stuff is a bit new to me Aug 17 00:17:20 <lcuk> moontiger, :) ive been a windows dev for years. you have a jump on me by having linux desktop.. Aug 17 00:17:32 <moontiger> heh good to know im not the only one Aug 17 00:17:35 <moontiger> :) Aug 17 00:17:45 <moontiger> i also do gtk stuff on the desktop which i love Aug 17 00:17:56 <moontiger> and a lot of php web stuff Aug 17 00:18:20 <moontiger> but i was a windows dev (c++/mfc) for a long time Aug 17 00:19:07 <lcuk> i started in c on the amiga - when i saw how shite c on windows was i hated it, visual basic has been my methadone for many years Aug 17 00:20:01 <lcuk> :) thankfully now im back in c and feeling happy, im even using all the optimisation training (from making vb fly) to make my nokia go quick :) Aug 17 00:20:06 <moontiger> the amiga!!?? wow i wrote asm games for that thing for psygnosis Aug 17 00:21:07 <lcuk> :) well a personal thank you. psygnosis produced some excellent games Aug 17 00:21:17 <moontiger> hahaha cool :) Aug 17 00:21:51 <jott> heh which games did you work on moontiger? Aug 17 00:22:13 <moontiger> do you remember "shadow of the beast" and "killing game show" ? Aug 17 00:22:27 <robtaylor> moontiger: f**king great games! Aug 17 00:22:38 <lcuk> sotb was revolutionary for its time :) Aug 17 00:22:42 <jott> yes i do :) Aug 17 00:22:48 <moontiger> yeah well i worked on the killing game show and did the atari st conversion Aug 17 00:22:59 <robtaylor> moontiger: weren't you guys based in liverpool then? Aug 17 00:23:19 <moontiger> yup in liverpoool but i lived in london Aug 17 00:23:30 <moontiger> i would commute up there once a week Aug 17 00:23:37 * robtaylor first learnt assembler on the the ST Aug 17 00:23:43 <moontiger> 68000 :) Aug 17 00:23:48 <robtaylor> damn right Aug 17 00:23:49 <lcuk> and to think they want to close down the northern cities :) Aug 17 00:24:02 <robtaylor> best instruction set there was until the arm came out Aug 17 00:24:05 <moontiger> yah well i wouldnt live in the uk ever again i think Aug 17 00:24:12 <robtaylor> moontiger: really? Aug 17 00:24:13 <moontiger> yah it was awesome Aug 17 00:24:24 <lcuk> arm is 68k on speed, the nokia should have its own custom chipset around it to make it perfect :) Aug 17 00:24:27 <moontiger> rob: nope ... Aug 17 00:24:44 <moontiger> yah ... a copper list processor and sound chip :) Aug 17 00:24:45 * lcuk dreams of pvr and iva help Aug 17 00:24:50 * robtaylor lives in the peak district and likes it very much ;) Aug 17 00:25:06 <moontiger> peak district is awesome ... my mom lives in sutton coldfield Aug 17 00:25:08 * lcuk lives in manchester and cant think of many nice things Aug 17 00:25:26 <robtaylor> lcuk: hah, yeah I'd love to get the chance to play with those Aug 17 00:25:36 <lcuk> although in the air n space museum today it was cool Aug 17 00:25:49 <lcuk> robtaylor, i hope we are close Aug 17 00:26:07 <robtaylor> lcuk: we are, i'm sure. I love just by ladybower on the snake pass Aug 17 00:26:14 <moontiger> trouble is i think they are focused more on battery life and email type uses Aug 17 00:26:15 <lcuk> nokia have internal drivers and discussions are ongoing as to letting us get our mits on them Aug 17 00:26:17 <robtaylor> *live even Aug 17 00:27:31 <robtaylor> moontiger: well, i wouldn't say that really, there's intersting things happening all over the shop Aug 17 00:27:32 <jott> well the internal drivers need some rewrite or big lawyer claws to make them gpl compliant :) Aug 17 00:27:34 <moontiger> you guys are up late coding huh? Aug 17 00:27:42 <lcuk> moontiger, i see playing movies as a big battery eater - and they want that happening - with all the other devices around having 3d i dont think us having such a slow graphics processor is good Aug 17 00:27:52 <moontiger> right yes Aug 17 00:27:52 <lcuk> yes jott Aug 17 00:27:53 <jott> coding 24/7 :O Aug 17 00:28:05 * robtaylor is supposed to be doing tinymail work for a client, but its all a bit tedious Aug 17 00:28:14 <lcuk> jott :) someone has to do it Aug 17 00:28:43 <robtaylor> lcuk: got your hands on a beagle board yet? Aug 17 00:28:52 <jott> http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/funny-pictures-cat-has-a-half-full-glass.jpg hehe Aug 17 00:29:11 <lcuk> no rob - it has no screen and im not wasting money on something without touch Aug 17 00:29:35 <moontiger> is anyone working on the modest client at all? Aug 17 00:29:47 <robtaylor> lcuk: i'm sure with a bit of ingenuity you could scavenge parts from a 770 or so Aug 17 00:29:49 <lcuk> ill get next nokia touch device or pandora or something Aug 17 00:30:02 <jott> robtaylor: i had the same thought :) Aug 17 00:30:22 <robtaylor> moontiger: yeah, nokia's still at work on modest Aug 17 00:30:25 <jott> modding a beagleboard into a 770 would be awesome :) Aug 17 00:30:31 <lcuk> its a cludge though and would need to stop me coding for ages to sort out something that big teams are working on Aug 17 00:30:55 <robtaylor> mm, waiting for the next hardware rev is probably easier Aug 17 00:31:05 <moontiger> heh Aug 17 00:31:09 * lcuk lets the hardware people work on what they are good at and then port as required :) Aug 17 00:31:48 <robtaylor> I just wish imagination would realease suitably-licensed drivers for their shit Aug 17 00:31:53 <GeneralAntilles> moontiger, lots of @nokia people. Aug 17 00:32:02 <robtaylor> but i kinda doubt it'll ever happen Aug 17 00:32:45 <moontiger> GA... any chance of them making a usable interface?? Aug 17 00:33:12 <lcuk> im goin again, my head is swimming in layout and rendering and needs hacking away at Aug 17 00:33:17 <jott> yes, img tech could be a real problem :( Aug 17 00:33:24 <moontiger> ttfn lcuk :) Aug 17 00:33:30 <jott> lcuk go go go :) Aug 17 00:34:00 <robtaylor> moontiger: imagination? Aug 17 00:34:08 <lcuk> heh jott, you reminded me of kotzcarny then Aug 17 00:34:16 <moontiger> rob: no ... modest :) Aug 17 00:34:27 <robink> lcuk: The ColdFire is 68k on speed. Aug 17 00:35:04 <arachnist> lcuk: that'd be "kotczarny" rather Aug 17 00:35:15 <robtaylor> moontiger: oh, hmm, well, i havn't used it recently, but what are the problems? Aug 17 00:35:19 <lcuk> cool robink, arachnist you are right Aug 17 00:36:14 <moontiger> rob: things like setting fonts... switching accounts ... viewing accounts Aug 17 00:36:35 <jott> yeah switching accounts is really terrible. Aug 17 00:36:35 <moontiger> the notification stuff Aug 17 00:36:54 <moontiger> a lot of it is really good ... just the bad stuff makes it unusable imho Aug 17 00:37:11 <robtaylor> moontiger, jott: you should come up with some patches and throw them at them :) Aug 17 00:37:36 <moontiger> rob: let me get my first app written then i will dive in to that stuff Aug 17 00:37:37 <moontiger> ;) Aug 17 00:37:40 <robtaylor> heh Aug 17 00:38:15 <robtaylor> sergio on #tinymail is a good person to talk about modest development with. Aug 17 00:38:26 <GeneralAntilles> moontiger, it's open source. Aug 17 00:38:31 <GeneralAntilles> Hack it up. Aug 17 00:39:50 * robtaylor heads to bed Aug 17 00:39:53 <robtaylor> night all Aug 17 00:39:55 <moontiger> nn Aug 17 00:40:00 * moontiger heads back to coding Aug 17 00:40:16 <bef0rd> http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/funny-pictures-teleportation-machine-needs-some-work.jpg Aug 17 01:06:03 <robink> Will Maemo 5 support the MBX or just the SGX? Aug 17 01:08:33 <GAN800> robink, you're kidding, right? Aug 17 01:17:20 <robink> GAN800: ...no? Aug 17 01:17:36 <robink> Wait, Maemo 4 supports the MBX? Aug 17 01:18:14 <robink> ...or is the implication that Maemo 5 won't support the 2420 at all? Aug 17 01:21:08 <GAN800> Nokia doesn't announce stuff like that. ;) Aug 17 01:21:24 <GAN800> If they did, the news would be plastered everywhere. Aug 17 01:21:39 <robink> Ah Aug 17 01:21:57 <GAN800> The implication is that anybody outside of some key Nokia people knowing is an impossibility. :D Aug 17 01:22:47 <robink> Ah Aug 17 01:22:56 <robink> Does Maemo 4 support the MBX? Aug 17 01:23:03 <robink> I was never 100% clear on that. Aug 17 01:24:03 <GAN800> No Aug 17 01:24:17 <robink> Aw, poop. Aug 17 01:24:24 <GAN800> No drivers support for PowerVR or IVA Aug 17 01:24:41 <GAN800> There's a possible light at the end of the tunnel. Aug 17 01:24:55 <GAN800> Check out the driver's justification page on the wiki. Aug 17 01:27:06 <robink> GAN800: I'm looking at it, but I'm not seeing the light. Aug 17 01:27:43 <GAN800> Kate is on the talk page? Aug 17 01:28:38 <robink> Oh Aug 17 01:31:33 <GAN800> The light is that we've got a dialog Aug 17 01:31:57 <GAN800> So we're way ahead of the game compared to most groups in a situation like this. Aug 17 01:32:31 <robink> GAN800: Indeed. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 17 02:59:57 2008