**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 23 02:59:57 2008 Aug 23 03:03:06 * moontiger *really* doesnt like making icons and such for software Aug 23 03:04:02 i do Aug 23 03:20:30 Khertan_n810 you here? Aug 23 03:23:15 moontiger, whenever he gets back from vacation Aug 23 03:23:19 Maybe a week or two. Aug 23 03:23:21 Don't remember Aug 23 03:25:45 moontiger, September 6th. http://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint4#Sprint_4_planning Aug 23 03:26:49 GeneralAntilles, ok thnx ... so no go til then right? Aug 23 03:27:05 moontiger, I dunno who he delegated invite processing to Aug 23 03:27:13 You could either hit -developers Aug 23 03:27:19 or maybe poke Ed Bartosh directly. Aug 23 03:27:31 where would i find those? Aug 23 03:27:57 pupnik, you like making icons and such? Aug 23 03:28:02 ~maemo-lists is http://maemo.org/community/mailing-lists.html Aug 23 03:28:03 GeneralAntilles: okay Aug 23 03:28:14 Ed's email should be pretty easy to find Aug 23 03:28:24 ed.bartosh@nokia.com or similar. Aug 23 03:28:29 moontiger: i'm not pro at it but i like pixel twiddling yes Aug 23 03:28:42 want to make some icons for my applet? :) Aug 23 03:29:27 GeneralAntilles, i can email ed directly? Aug 23 03:29:28 * GeneralAntilles can't decide if he wants to start making the Maemo branding changeover on the site slowly or whole-hog once people get back from vacation. . . . Aug 23 03:29:33 moontiger, sure. Aug 23 03:29:38 ok thnx Aug 23 03:31:36 GeneralAntilles, ok i emailed him ... why hasnt he written me back already? Aug 23 03:31:39 * moontiger grins Aug 23 03:31:53 Because he hates you Aug 23 03:31:54 a lot Aug 23 03:31:59 oh :( Aug 23 03:32:08 oh well ... tomorrow is another day! Aug 23 03:32:13 It'll take at least 6 hours for the boiling rage to simmer down. ;) Aug 23 03:32:41 wow that means i could go out and mingle with the humans.... weird Aug 23 03:34:39 Humans are dirty things. Aug 23 03:36:01 * GeneralAntilles fixes XHTML compliance issues along with the typos and lame grammar. Aug 23 03:41:34 * moontiger shudders Aug 23 03:41:53 naaaaa i'll stay home and geek ... friday night is bridge and tunnel brigade night anyways Aug 23 03:47:09 * GeneralAntilles wonders why he's doing work that people who are actually getting paid should be doing. . . . :P Aug 23 03:54:47 heh. open source... Aug 23 03:55:02 andre____, just getting home or just getting up? :P Aug 23 03:55:25 just got home :) Aug 23 03:55:29 Damn! Aug 23 03:55:36 i don't get up at 6AM, really ;-) Aug 23 03:55:54 * GeneralAntilles only does when he sleep schedule happens to wander around that way. Aug 23 03:56:32 schedule? come on, we're young! :-P Aug 23 03:56:54 just need to catch my train in five hours, and my flight later on... Aug 23 03:57:04 will work out, somehoe Aug 23 03:57:05 w Aug 23 03:57:52 Ha Aug 23 03:58:34 * moontiger wanders off looking for icons... Aug 23 03:59:19 night Aug 23 04:07:58 Updated: https://maemo.org/development/bugs.html Aug 23 04:24:26 lol Aug 23 04:24:43 There are "

"'s in here instead of
. . . . Aug 23 04:40:41 Wow, no newlines at all in this one. . . . Aug 23 04:48:06 Whoever put together this page: https://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_3-x_bora/ needs to either be fired or stop doing things drunk. Aug 23 04:49:20 lol. Aug 23 04:50:01 There's a bunch of completely arbitrary elements here Aug 23 04:50:11 and random \t's Aug 23 04:50:18 and random empty comments Aug 23 04:50:58 and hard-wrapped text where all the hardwrapping \n's were removed. Aug 23 04:52:52 This is cool:

Aug 23 04:58:30 GeneralAntilles: at least it's not

Aug 23 05:02:53 arachnist, atleast. :\ Aug 23 05:03:27 "
\n
\t
" Aug 23 05:03:33 Why? . . . Aug 23 05:07:01 HA Aug 23 05:07:17 The
's are used instead of
's in some places. Aug 23 05:37:48 maybe not everyone knows proper html Aug 23 05:41:18 pupnik, fair enough, but did you SEE the page? Aug 23 05:41:58 There are limits to the acceptability of the "but I didn't know!" excuse Aug 23 05:42:05 and those limits were most certainly breached here. Aug 23 05:42:29 ok will look - i'm a bit caught up with trying to figure out how to stay alive in 2009 atm Aug 23 05:42:34 Besides, you'd figure that Nokia would have pride enough in their work to be able to generate a few pages of at least PASSABLE HTML. Aug 23 05:42:46 Doesn't matter, it's all gone now. ;) Aug 23 05:43:01 eww ok Aug 23 05:43:06 ++ Aug 23 05:43:11 The world's ending in December, anyway. Aug 23 05:43:14 So it doesn't matter. Aug 23 05:43:20 what's in december? Aug 23 05:43:40 An arbitrary date. Isn't that how all the doomsday predictor do it? :P Aug 23 05:43:46 no. Aug 23 05:43:53 s/predictor/predictors/ Aug 23 05:43:53 GeneralAntilles meant: An arbitrary date. Isn't that how all the doomsday predictors do it? :P Aug 23 05:43:59 usually, you have to tie it to an event Aug 23 05:44:48 Like "the day they fire up the LHC" or "the day Apple finally gets bought by Microsoft" Aug 23 05:58:26 OK, naive LHC question. I've read 1) LHC will accelerate counter-rotating particles to close to the speed of light. and 2) the energies produced will be lower than cosmic rays hitting the earth. but if cosmic rays don't travel faster than the speed of light, and the relative collision speed of the LHC particles is close to 2c... how is that possible? Aug 23 06:11:30 ok #physics helped me out :) Aug 23 06:12:16 pupnik, what was the answer? Aug 23 06:13:13 relativistically, the opposing beams do not see each other as approaching with 2c Aug 23 06:13:29 or ~2c Aug 23 06:14:12 well Aug 23 06:14:20 obviously they could not see each other Aug 23 06:16:55 do you have a pet tarantula by chance? Aug 23 06:18:52 no Aug 23 06:25:58 is that because c is an absolute? Aug 23 06:26:48 C is an absolute. There's also asm, but C is more absolute ;) Aug 23 06:26:58 ha de ha ha ;) Aug 23 06:38:06 pupnik: energy of a particle is mv^2/2 Aug 23 06:38:17 pupnik: energy of a photon is hf Aug 23 06:38:51 pupnik: notice that the second formula does not contain the speed at all while the first formula also contains m Aug 23 06:39:20 RST, _kinetic_ energy of a particle Aug 23 06:39:27 also, even "relative" speed cannot exceed c Aug 23 06:39:33 inz: mv^2/3 Aug 23 06:39:41 sorry, /2 Aug 23 06:52:58 http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3631 Aug 23 06:54:47 http://ariya.blogspot.com/2008/08/qt-44-and-maemo.html Aug 23 07:09:15 interestingk Aug 23 07:13:06 interezding Aug 23 07:35:26 so it has the hardware ... juts no drivers to use it Aug 23 07:38:53 hello Aug 23 07:39:03 do you remember ? Aug 23 07:39:30 last night i nnounced that the charger battery of my nokia 770 cracked Aug 23 07:39:49 and i have not one anymore ? Aug 23 07:40:17 i toke a charger of ericsson of cell phone k608 Aug 23 07:40:57 cutted the shell Aug 23 07:41:41 after i toke the circuit and i unmount the cables of sony ericsson and i mounted the nokia 770 cables Aug 23 07:41:51 did it work? Aug 23 07:42:00 without any problem Aug 23 07:42:09 nice work! :) Aug 23 07:42:10 it is charging the battery Aug 23 07:42:44 the sony ericsson works to 4.9 volt to 850 mA Aug 23 07:42:58 the nokia to 5 volt to 890 mA Aug 23 07:43:16 thats great ... one less wasted fone charger in the world and one less charger needed for 770 :) Aug 23 07:43:30 you know Aug 23 07:43:40 you can boot of n800 using se k800i battery Aug 23 07:43:59 it is the same Aug 23 07:44:01 though you have to hold it, cause it's a lot smaller Aug 23 07:44:05 i used a k608i Aug 23 07:44:11 it is the 608 Aug 23 07:44:15 i for italy Aug 23 07:44:24 i is for international actually Aug 23 07:44:28 c is for China Aug 23 07:44:30 there isnot any differece Aug 23 07:44:41 well, italy isn't everywhere Aug 23 07:44:57 as opposed to what some script kiddies on ircnet would want to belive Aug 23 07:45:06 i got the k608, it broken the lcd 70 euro Aug 23 07:45:18 so used the carger of my mom Aug 23 07:45:31 charger Aug 23 07:46:36 qwerty12 are you in China ? Aug 23 07:47:10 Pavlz-1: No, London. But I used to mod Sony Ericsson phones so I know about them Aug 23 07:47:26 i used to live in london Aug 23 07:47:40 se phones are cool Aug 23 07:47:44 modable, hackable Aug 23 07:48:04 no necessity to buy a new charger Aug 23 07:48:16 30 euro in Italy Aug 23 07:49:05 44,3610 dollars Aug 23 07:49:18 £23! Aug 23 07:49:39 euro 24 in berlin @ linuxtag Aug 23 07:49:44 i thought that was expensive Aug 23 07:49:59 wow look at the metals markets Aug 23 07:50:00 in pound 23,9537 Aug 23 07:50:02 That's a con, I bought a new genuine nokia charger for my N800 recently, £5.50 including Postage and VAT Aug 23 07:50:13 only for a charger Aug 23 07:50:24 nice qwerty12 Aug 23 07:50:58 Thanks :) Aug 23 07:51:51 Pavlz-1: Yeah, wow, that is a lot. £5.50 = 6.90064 EUR Aug 23 07:52:28 6,8883 Aug 23 07:52:33 euro Aug 23 07:53:02 Of course, if I'd have known I still had the old nokia charger type (the plug that fits on the N-Gage and 3310 for example), I'd have just bought an adapter. I much prefer the old charger. Aug 23 07:53:14 i am doing with financial yahoo Aug 23 07:53:19 the conversion Aug 23 07:53:22 Ah, I'm using xe Aug 23 07:53:54 in italy all is more expensive then 5 times Aug 23 07:53:59 Sigh, British burglars :( Aug 23 07:54:00 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1048026/Pictured-The-burglar-left-dangling-shoelaces-victims-bay-window.html Aug 23 07:54:15 this is the example for a charger 5,50 pound Aug 23 07:54:27 in italy the same 30 euro Aug 23 07:54:33 5x Aug 23 07:55:18 Itsly is more expensive than England Aug 23 07:55:24 incredible Aug 23 07:56:13 Heh, my sister is always on about how the UK is expensive for stuff :D Aug 23 07:56:20 Khertan_n810, does adding transparency to the apps make them heavier and slower? Aug 23 07:56:21 I'll tell her about Italy :D Aug 23 07:56:48 but Berlusconi says : all is ok !!!! Aug 23 07:56:57 it is a Buffon !!!! Aug 23 07:57:01 berlusconi.... pah! Aug 23 07:57:01 :-) Aug 23 07:57:08 I've lived in Italy, rent is cheap Aug 23 07:57:13 and yes, he's a tool Aug 23 07:57:47 where you lived in Italy to find cheap rent ? Aug 23 07:58:04 Torino Aug 23 07:58:15 is possible Aug 23 07:58:29 why in Rome is all more expensive Aug 23 07:58:30 where are you from? Aug 23 07:58:32 ah, yeah Aug 23 07:58:33 Pavlz-1, where in italy are you? Aug 23 07:58:35 Roma Aug 23 07:58:36 but prettier girls :) Aug 23 07:58:46 I'd guess... Aug 23 07:58:48 ive een there a couple of times Aug 23 07:58:52 been too Aug 23 07:58:55 i prefeer strangers Aug 23 07:58:58 girls from torino were purdy Aug 23 07:59:09 they give more easy Aug 23 07:59:15 haha Aug 23 07:59:30 can't say I had that experience :( speaking no Italian is annoying :) Aug 23 07:59:37 Pavlz-1, like the german tourists you mean? Aug 23 07:59:45 night Aug 23 07:59:50 yes, polish Aug 23 07:59:58 ;) Aug 23 08:00:29 german wow Aug 23 08:00:54 very expert in sex Aug 23 08:01:15 very precise and efficient Aug 23 08:01:29 :-) Aug 23 08:01:34 yeah Aug 23 08:01:52 i see you know Aug 23 08:02:02 hehe i lived in milano for a little while Aug 23 08:02:22 there are german girls ? Aug 23 08:02:32 they would come for the holidays in the summer Aug 23 08:02:40 :-) Aug 23 08:02:47 very interesting Aug 23 08:03:18 i could left the chat to start and to go in Milan to search German girls Aug 23 08:03:27 * moontiger laughs Aug 23 08:03:41 i have to go to ed now i think ... its getting late Aug 23 08:03:42 german girls? Aug 23 08:03:46 ed = bed Aug 23 08:03:47 * arachnist laughs Aug 23 08:04:02 what time is it ? Aug 23 08:04:05 laterz :) Aug 23 08:04:14 its 1am Aug 23 08:04:16 moontiger: you want to go to bed with ed? Aug 23 08:04:23 hahaha not really Aug 23 08:04:27 here in italy 10:04 a.m Aug 23 08:04:31 im in san francisco Aug 23 08:04:37 wow Aug 23 08:04:41 moontiger: you prefer tables? :> Aug 23 08:04:45 lucky you Aug 23 08:04:55 :-( Aug 23 08:04:59 * arachnist stops it Aug 23 08:05:01 im moving to madrid at the the end of the year Aug 23 08:05:24 too spanish are very precise Aug 23 08:05:34 arachnist, im easy ... floors tables beds chairs ... its all good ;) Aug 23 08:05:34 and efficients Aug 23 08:05:50 yeah im missing europe i think :) Aug 23 08:06:00 it 's late for me i stay up all the night Aug 23 08:06:16 i go to sleep Aug 23 08:06:19 maybe u need some sleep too? Aug 23 08:06:28 8 hours Aug 23 08:06:29 see you again maybe .... ciao :) Aug 23 08:06:47 6 p.m. i am here Aug 23 08:07:01 6 p.m. Italy Aug 23 08:07:10 ;) Aug 23 08:07:22 ah Aug 23 08:07:28 just a think Aug 23 08:07:50 could you suggest me a client sip for my deb ? Aug 23 08:08:00 ekiga don't like me Aug 23 08:08:47 gnomenetmeeting does not work, it say that don't find the sound blaster of my notebook Aug 23 08:09:01 which can i install ? Aug 23 08:09:33 could i install ? Aug 23 08:09:51 s/[ ]\?/?/g Aug 23 08:10:13 what ? Aug 23 08:10:36 the proper way of saying "don't put spaces in front of '?'" Aug 23 08:10:56 * qwerty12 doesn't speak sed Aug 23 08:11:05 * arachnist does. in real life too. Aug 23 08:11:29 asterisk ? Aug 23 08:32:03 qwerty12: i booted deblet from a file yesterday.. worst.. hack.. of.. my .. life Aug 23 08:32:36 Ouch. You mean from an image? Aug 23 08:32:39 yup Aug 23 08:32:41 * qwerty12 hates images Aug 23 08:32:50 The speed is horrible >.< Aug 23 08:33:00 actually wasnt that bad initially, but yeah Aug 23 08:33:12 i made installer so people can debootstrap and install onto a image Aug 23 08:33:22 and it adds a boot menu item that allows people to boot in Aug 23 08:33:39 main challenge.. busybox 1.0.0 in initfs does not support loopback :> Aug 23 08:34:12 Unless you can get a uclibc toolchain, you won't be making a new version :) Aug 23 08:34:27 so i put a busybox with only mount enabled on the FAT filesystem, mount it without noexec, run a linuxrc on the fat filesystem that mounts the image file Aug 23 08:34:30 That reminds me, remember what you said about stracing programs on initfs? Aug 23 08:34:35 mm? Aug 23 08:34:47 and the linuxrc then mount -o remount,noexec /mnt/new_root Aug 23 08:34:48 :P Aug 23 08:35:12 It's not really accurate, the strace is using glibc while programs in initfs use uclibc, I think someone already said that on bugzilla and then that was said Aug 23 08:35:14 cool :) Aug 23 08:35:27 s/then/when/ Aug 23 08:35:35 qwerty12: ltrace was better than strace i think Aug 23 08:35:36 in this manner Aug 23 08:36:16 ah, ok Aug 23 08:37:26 but what i made makes it possible to make a "Easy Debian" with a image file, "Simple" mode where it builds a .img file and debootstraps onto it - so people can hybrid both boot into it and chroot into it Aug 23 08:38:15 Hmm, I like the idea. But I'd personally prefer it to be left as it is and the chroot guys to chroot from a block partition Aug 23 08:38:42 Even with Android, it ran much faster off a proper partition Aug 23 08:38:43 yeah, that's the best choice really Aug 23 08:38:59 and that's what i would recommend myself Aug 23 08:39:05 but some want to try out debian "easily" without re-partitioning and all that jaz Aug 23 08:39:05 z Aug 23 08:39:38 yeah, true, I guess that's one of the reasons chroot appeals to them :/ Aug 23 08:40:19 also i had to include mknod /dev/loop0 stuff in initfs installer :P Aug 23 08:40:24 since it was missing loopback device Aug 23 08:41:16 Yeah, I've wondered how it was looped, it misses tools like losetup etc. Aug 23 08:42:51 magic :> http://rafb.net/p/WW0UOY34.html Aug 23 08:44:02 I'm wary about installing your initfs :) Aug 23 08:44:19 i understand that.. yesterday i found out that if you had -two- boot items, it would not show any Aug 23 08:44:24 so i had to fix that Aug 23 08:44:24 :P Aug 23 08:44:31 (it still showed internal flash) Aug 23 08:44:39 but i think i've ironed out the bugs now Aug 23 08:46:37 crap, an alias better work. Aug 23 08:46:58 * qwerty12 is trying to get "g++-4.2" Aug 23 08:47:00 hehe Aug 23 08:47:31 I've got g++ which --version says it's 4.2.3 but when I symlink it, stupid sb_wrapper won't recognise it >.< Aug 23 08:47:42 ~curse scratchbox Aug 23 08:47:42 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, scratchbox ! Aug 23 08:47:51 ~curse infobot for crap curses Aug 23 08:47:52 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, infobot for crap curses ! Aug 23 08:48:21 qwerty12: so what other mods do you have in your initfs? Aug 23 08:48:26 other than the logo stuff Aug 23 08:51:16 Stskeeps: relatively, not much. I keep an bootmenu.conf with a quite a few entries, I make the bootmenu black so my eyes only kill for one second, keep modules for framebuffer, I've replaced most of the modules with my own ones compiled from a preempt kernel designed to match the kernel I have flashed, I fix the show_rd_versions so that booting from ... doesn't get rid of it, I make rd_versions show all the time regardless if I have rd_mode t Aug 23 08:51:16 urned off :P Aug 23 08:52:14 did bef0rd share with anyone his experience of getting pykaraoke_mini to work on the n810? Aug 23 08:52:26 Atm, I'm messing around and seeing if I can get the mtdblock4 to be mounted over usb Aug 23 08:52:37 we both started working on it but he tried it first on the n810 itself while I was checking it in scratchbox Aug 23 08:55:20 Stskeeps: what I really want to do though is get a uClibc 0.9.28 toolchain so that I can compile mtd-tools for initfs and be able to dump and restore my rootfs from the bootmenu Aug 23 08:56:07 *nod* Aug 23 08:56:34 i thought about loadable .imgs from SD as a possibility to extend initfs as well Aug 23 08:56:44 such as dropbear.img or parted.img or whatever Aug 23 08:57:21 Yeah, I like the sound of that Aug 23 08:57:43 qwerty, what time is it Aug 23 08:57:45 but that's a bit disturbed by the fact busybox doesnt do loopback Aug 23 08:57:59 lcuk: around 10:00 AM Aug 23 08:58:13 thats what i thought, nokia flasher is telling me its wrong Aug 23 08:58:32 lcuk: someone had that problem on the itt forums, I can't remember where though Aug 23 08:58:45 -but- it would be possible to have a linuxrc boot item that is "Recovery tools" that starts up /media/mmc1/linuxrc.recovery for instance Aug 23 08:58:50 that then can supplement with recovery image Aug 23 08:58:55 great - it waits until device is plugged in before downloading the firmware Aug 23 08:59:01 since linuxrc runs inside initfs Aug 23 08:59:09 yeah Aug 23 08:59:27 lcuk: go on tablets-dev and grab the firmware manually. and then flash it in linux :> Aug 23 08:59:30 oh ffs, i just set internet time, and its knocked clock back to 9am Aug 23 08:59:42 42seconds left.. Aug 23 08:59:46 failfailfail Aug 23 08:59:57 english time keeping fails Aug 23 09:00:00 I got myself a micro sd adapter for the n810, would both micro sd and micro sdhc are supposed to work with it? Aug 23 09:00:02 it was all in sync before Aug 23 09:00:43 i hope diablo is stable Aug 23 09:00:48 liri, formactor doesn't affect the standard. Aug 23 09:00:59 SDHC is SDHC is SDHC Aug 23 09:01:27 Hmm, maybe I'm hoping here, but is there a tool that can get information about a lib file? Hex editor isn't helping me here :/ Aug 23 09:01:31 GAN800: well I'm just not familiar with these things so I was wondering. no idea what's the HC is supposed to mean either Aug 23 09:01:40 qwerty12: nm -D Aug 23 09:01:43 high capacity Aug 23 09:01:57 qwerty12, what are you aiming for? strings type things or details of a jump table or something? Aug 23 09:02:05 Stskeeps: Thanks :) Aug 23 09:02:25 lcuk: more about strings, I want to find the exact version of uclibc used Aug 23 09:02:30 GAN800: but does it mean that the internal structure of the micro sdhc card itself is different or something? Aug 23 09:02:32 ahhh k Aug 23 09:02:37 if nokia are being assholes about it, I'll compile my own Aug 23 09:03:23 liri, forget the formactor. Micro and Mini aren't relevant. Aug 23 09:03:37 SDHC just addresses larger blocks. Aug 23 09:04:02 am i safe to restore from a chinook backup? Aug 23 09:04:23 lcuk, unless you did some funky stuff. Aug 23 09:04:36 no, but my networking was broken last night Aug 23 09:04:48 oh shat! i cant build packages without a whole hassle Aug 23 09:04:54 Well, restore and see if it works Aug 23 09:05:05 if not, reflash and don't restore. Aug 23 09:05:05 lcuk: remember to use diablo sdk repo now :> Aug 23 09:06:09 i just need to confirm networking works - it broke yesterday Aug 23 09:08:16 moo all Aug 23 09:08:29 Bollocks, I don't know the exact config used by nokia regarding uclibc. I'm tempted to "make randconfig" Use random values for all options." Aug 23 09:08:34 Hey RST38h Aug 23 09:09:23 Nobody is downloading MasterGear =) Aug 23 09:09:28 45 downloads, weird Aug 23 09:09:44 file from the homepage has clocked a 1000+ Aug 23 09:09:55 qwerty12: how difficult would it be to make something akin personal menu that gets stuff from Debian menu system? Aug 23 09:10:05 like, automatically Aug 23 09:10:11 no idea, sorry Aug 23 09:10:21 k Aug 23 09:10:51 * qwerty12 checks logs for CFLAGS, i'm pretty sure we have a "Arm 1136JF-S " Aug 23 09:20:31 * Stskeeps watches another debootstrap onto a file Aug 23 09:20:42 morning all Aug 23 09:22:17 morning Aug 23 09:22:44 * qwerty12 compiles kernel-source-diablo again. didn't realise clibc would be linked against it Aug 23 09:23:40 * lbt got permission to put deblet on his tablet this weekend :D Aug 23 09:23:54 after I've done my chores... :( Aug 23 09:24:08 Aug 23 09:24:10 what does deblet do? Aug 23 09:24:15 Debian Aug 23 09:24:21 oh Aug 23 09:24:40 pupnik: it's basically a deriative of debian for the tablets, with support packages to support the tablet features/bugs Aug 23 09:24:52 it bases fully on debian and adds some things Aug 23 09:24:59 we just can't call it debian for obvious reasons Aug 23 09:25:19 I wonder if polishing up gp2x UAE and SNES and uploading to extras will yield fame, fortune and the adoration of millions of groupies? Aug 23 09:25:30 naah Aug 23 09:25:41 hehe. or decrease worldwide productivity ;) Aug 23 09:26:07 d'oh, rapid response plumbing... l8r Aug 23 09:26:20 maemo.org/downloads navigation is screwed up Aug 23 09:26:29 too much javascript, I guess Aug 23 10:08:27 Stskeeps: Do you have usb networking in initfs and some time? :) Aug 23 10:31:54 qwerty12, :) its easier this time round to install everything, im even documenting it as i go to hopefully let others dev on device ;) Aug 23 10:33:47 lcuk: heh, great :). I may set up an dev environment on mmc boot. Although I'd set it up properly (i.e removing busybox) Aug 23 10:34:12 yer, still a bit far for me, but at least after this ill know i can install on my own :) Aug 23 10:34:45 :) Aug 23 10:35:18 i think the only tricky thing remaining is buildpackage but even thats not gonna be so difficult Aug 23 10:35:19 Despite not being a fan of it on the tablets, I should learn python. I keep hearing about how it's a good powerful language for beginners (or n00bs like me!) Aug 23 10:35:42 its good as glue if you want to use that from over there with this from over here Aug 23 10:35:55 lcuk: yeah, do your modification to that file and install a gnu version of that tool I think Aug 23 10:36:13 theres a whole stream of files which need handling and modifying Aug 23 10:36:36 I think what would be easier on that front was making a deb file that will install the tools needed under different names and getting the preinst to run sed on a bunch of file to change them automatically Aug 23 10:36:44 im wondering if it would be worth documenting the patch and repackaging it, but since its only for me im not sure it will be worth it Aug 23 10:36:50 lol Aug 23 10:37:08 heh :) Aug 23 10:37:29 well :) liqbase has now completely rebuilt and run from source Aug 23 10:37:44 Stskeeps: ping. I lied about usb networking, only chroot to initfs is needed :D :) Aug 23 10:37:47 and im over ssh and i have root and all that, its easier this time round ;) Aug 23 10:39:30 Yeah, ssh is a lifesaver Aug 23 10:40:07 When the tablet refuses to unmount its memory cards and let me mount them over usb, all I have to do is scp to /media/mmc2 Aug 23 10:56:24 hey, lcuk, I have not installed liqbase for a while, what is new in it? =) Aug 23 10:56:31 (the one I installed was just a demo) Aug 23 10:57:12 nothing released :) but lots new, you will have to wait Aug 23 10:57:24 ah Aug 23 11:19:54 geek humor (yet again) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8PyaeQDIw8 8-bit C64 Sid Rick Rolling Aug 23 11:20:23 feel free to tell me to can it if the offtopicness annoys any of you Aug 23 11:35:02 jott, Ed bartosch told me to feck off :D Aug 23 11:38:19 pupnik, human humour http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1048026/Pictured-The-burglar-left-dangling-shoelaces-victims-bay-window.html Aug 23 11:43:02 hi Aug 23 11:43:53 I got a n810 yesterday and I just tried using a microsd card with a minisd card coverter. The n810 wasnt responding so I pulled out the battery and put it back again. Now nothing is working Aug 23 11:45:29 sounds fishy Aug 23 11:45:37 works perfectly fine here Aug 23 11:45:55 Its not turning on Aug 23 11:46:13 is it new from a shop? sounds like a refund job. Aug 23 11:46:19 could be a battery/power fault Aug 23 11:46:24 ordered it from play.com Aug 23 11:46:36 thats where i got mine from hehe Aug 23 11:46:50 kkrusty, with it all switched off, plug the charger in and see what happens Aug 23 11:46:51 must still be the cheapest Aug 23 11:47:00 hey lcuk Aug 23 11:47:05 hi LinuxCode :) Aug 23 11:47:08 im back in the uk again Aug 23 11:47:12 life being good to you? Aug 23 11:47:13 finally Aug 23 11:47:18 well ..lol Aug 23 11:47:18 already did that Aug 23 11:47:23 wrong question... Aug 23 11:47:24 and what happens Aug 23 11:47:27 ok Aug 23 11:47:30 i thought i told you Aug 23 11:47:32 lcuk: nothing :( Aug 23 11:47:58 my dad passed away end of june..been abroad sorting stuff out Aug 23 11:48:00 kkrusty, check the plug you are using works.. Aug 23 11:48:09 been a nightmare Aug 23 11:48:19 bah LinuxCode :( Aug 23 11:48:37 paperwork still ongoing Aug 23 11:48:54 at least the flat is cleared Aug 23 11:49:01 lcuk: the charger is fine Aug 23 11:49:19 just checked it with a mobile phone Aug 23 11:49:19 did you replace the battery correctly? Aug 23 11:49:23 ok Aug 23 11:49:36 could be the battery Aug 23 11:49:43 with charger in what happens when you press and hold power Aug 23 11:49:49 never tried if it works without Aug 23 11:49:54 it doesnt Aug 23 11:49:57 k Aug 23 11:50:06 i have the charger in most times i end up popping battery Aug 23 11:50:06 thought it wouldnt Aug 23 11:50:11 it just dies Aug 23 11:50:13 lcuk: nothing Aug 23 11:50:24 kkrusty, send it back Aug 23 11:50:25 warranty replacement time :) Aug 23 11:50:48 remove the memory card though first Aug 23 11:50:51 and check it again Aug 23 11:51:02 lcuk: Im trying it without the memory card Aug 23 12:07:29 can all os2008 versions use same repositories from gronmayer page? Aug 23 12:17:48 os2008 programs tend to work on os2008 OS Aug 23 12:18:06 did that answer your question thux ? Aug 23 12:19:17 seems i have bumped into someone else that have issues with vanishing emails. but getting that person add to a bug report, hmm... Aug 23 12:26:08 vanishing from device? or not getting transferred from pop Aug 23 12:26:45 pupnik_: yes suppose so just wondered if diablo any diffrent than first os2008 release Aug 23 12:27:22 ah ok, i don't know about diablo compatibility problems, if any (sorry) Aug 23 12:27:38 "Things are going to get much, much worse." - River Tam Aug 23 12:33:21 river tam is the kinda girl you want fighting on your team Aug 23 12:33:51 Curse you Fox Broadcasting! We hatesss it! We hatess it forevaaah! Aug 23 12:34:22 would have been so much better if it had run a couple of years instead of having the whole plot arc compressed to a 2 hr movie Aug 23 12:34:28 * lcuk . o O ( nights with kaylee ) Aug 23 12:34:35 :D Aug 23 12:34:57 you can have River. Kaylee is MINE! Aug 23 12:35:34 politely pupnik_ feck off, shes mine! mwah ahh ahhh ahhhh Aug 23 12:36:16 when did you get round to watching it, as broadcast or recently? Aug 23 12:36:17 * pupnik_ offers his favorite gun, 'Vera' for Kaylee Aug 23 12:36:41 what's your favorite episode lcuk Aug 23 12:37:49 i have trouble with names, i had ep numbers and they all kinda blended into one Aug 23 12:38:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw0jzGuvo4M Aug 23 12:38:42 Umgh Aug 23 12:38:58 it'd have to be 'Ariel' for me, i think. Followed in no particular order by Jaynestown, and Out Of Gas Aug 23 12:39:02 Why has the subject of Firefly come up? Aug 23 12:39:20 because it is always and forever appropriate and awesome Aug 23 12:39:39 hehe Aug 23 12:39:54 actually i quoted River after reviewing economic indicators... Aug 23 12:42:28 Oh, there is a better quote about those... Aug 23 12:42:32 Lemme look it up Aug 23 12:46:11 Hii Aug 23 12:48:29 "...and, like all precious things placed in harm's way, it got destroyed." Aug 23 12:49:41 Anyone can tell me how to solve this? Aug 23 12:50:03 I had an error in my /var/lib/dpkg/status Aug 23 12:51:16 i forgot... is there a backup status file in there Binky ? Aug 23 12:51:22 http://pastebin.ca/1182400 Aug 23 12:51:28 Yeah, there is Aug 23 12:51:37 you can diff them to find the error Aug 23 12:51:43 or at least i did Aug 23 12:51:54 I backuped status file, but the old is all corrupted... Aug 23 12:51:59 oh Aug 23 12:52:30 I don't know how to fix the final newline Aug 23 12:54:06 Any idea? Aug 23 12:57:14 grmbl. no Aug 23 12:57:52 open the file in vi and add a newline? Aug 23 12:58:35 sorry pupnik_, i missed your question as you didnt trigger my nick recognition. anyways. here is the bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3609 Aug 23 12:58:41 and now, dinner Aug 23 13:06:34 merci beaucoups Aug 23 13:16:53 X-Fade, welcome back :D Aug 23 13:17:03 don't ever go away again :| Aug 23 13:17:48 pupknik_, i already tried that Aug 23 13:55:04 thux, forget gronmayer Aug 23 13:55:14 Those repositories, by and large, will screw up your device Aug 23 13:55:23 You need two repositories, Extras and Extras-devel. Aug 23 13:55:58 Oh so that advice you gave me way back when sucked. :( Aug 23 13:56:00 >.> Aug 23 13:56:44 a good way to never get help again Aug 23 13:57:57 GeneralAntilles, :) i have diablo now, and i made notes about what it took to get gcc on device and building again :) Aug 23 13:58:19 Raytray, advice changes over time. Aug 23 13:58:33 What's useful 6 months ago is not the same thing that's useful now. Aug 23 13:58:59 Hehe. Give me a sec to blindly wander around looking for the repo list to edit. Aug 23 13:59:10 Raytray, there are now established quality control procedures in place which make the maemo experience better if you stick to the default repos Aug 23 13:59:50 I don't think any quality control procedures are in place for extras-devel? :P Aug 23 13:59:51 its been made simpler than ever to get your code into maemo and ensure it will be there even when your fly-by-night repo dies Aug 23 14:00:14 THATS why the advice has changed ;) Aug 23 14:01:02 * pupnik_ coughs politely Aug 23 14:01:33 Heh, I sound less grouchy next time I'm joking around then. Aug 23 14:01:56 its ok, i hadnt realised *why* it was a good idea myself until then Aug 23 14:02:50 Though, silly question: How do I build the db for locate? Aug 23 14:06:40 updatedb Aug 23 14:07:01 Ah thanks. Aug 23 14:08:13 lcuk: If you mean the builder as being "simpler than ever"... Aug 23 14:08:19 * RST38h cackles evilly Aug 23 14:08:49 at least you know once you comeo ut the other side you have a package capable of working Aug 23 14:09:02 [thanks god and Xfade, non-free binary uploads still work though] Aug 23 14:09:16 lcuk: capable of compiling, not working ;) Aug 23 14:19:55 Raytray, alternative answer. I was setting you up for fail. :P Aug 23 14:20:04 :p Aug 23 14:21:09 Are extras and extras dev in gronmayer? Aug 23 14:21:22 If so, I'll just have to figure out which one those are and remove the rest. Aug 23 14:21:46 ~extras Aug 23 14:21:47 rumour has it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Aug 23 14:21:53 FBReader is even in Extras now Aug 23 14:24:17 Id love to see amsn in there too Aug 23 14:24:24 and xchat Aug 23 14:24:26 ;-} Aug 23 14:25:41 XChat is in Extras-devel Aug 23 14:25:50 Poke stupid packagers to submit their stuff. Aug 23 14:28:00 One more push and we will see it in Extras? Aug 23 14:28:13 "it"? Aug 23 14:31:02 XChat Aug 23 14:35:26 xchat has too many packages Aug 23 14:35:40 imho we should think of a way for an alternative packaging of NLS stuff Aug 23 14:37:20 RST38h, mgedmin is gonna do a few more packaging improvements Aug 23 14:37:29 like culling the million and one localization packages. Aug 23 14:38:12 Maemo should have something like localepurge Aug 23 14:38:31 any volunteers to write one, with a control panel applet for setup? Aug 23 14:38:44 yep ..you Aug 23 14:38:55 I just volunteered you for the position Aug 23 14:38:57 ;-} Aug 23 14:39:13 I have so much packages to do yet :) Aug 23 14:41:32 hehe Aug 23 14:44:25 oh - Canola is not opensource Aug 23 14:44:36 I didn't realise Aug 23 14:46:05 I'm miffed - it won't scan my nfs mounts so I was trying to get the source to go in and fix it... Aug 23 14:46:09 just grrr Aug 23 14:46:54 lbt, lightmediascanner Aug 23 14:47:01 It's just the front-end and media server that's closed Aug 23 14:47:12 90% of the bulk of what makes "Canola" is open source. Aug 23 14:47:25 Blame retarded management. Aug 23 14:47:29 shame - the fancy front end is worth building on Aug 23 14:47:41 I was thinking of extending it to do other stuff Aug 23 14:47:45 Aug 23 14:47:46 Just don't blame the developers. Aug 23 14:48:03 zap: AFAIK, you only need one Aug 23 14:48:03 They've contributed more open source stuff to Maemo than just about anybody. Aug 23 14:48:09 zap: Others are translations Aug 23 14:48:24 OK - that's nice to know :) Aug 23 14:48:39 i have a piece of code that create a picture that takes time to make with cairo. i would like to compute it on a a separate thread, and give back something to a pygtk drawing area to display. Aug 23 14:48:51 any idea what the 'something' format should be ? Aug 23 14:48:57 BTW, anybody installed latest Pidgin from Collabora? Aug 23 14:49:06 The one that comes with 20+MB of crap? Aug 23 14:49:49 melmoth, offscreen bitmap. then blit it onscreen when you are done? Aug 23 14:50:59 i m not sure what a offscreen bitmap is. I can have it on a numeri array, but then i do not know how to render it on the gtk drawing area Aug 23 14:51:51 a bitmap is an array of pixels representing a rectangular area of visible screen.. Aug 23 14:51:55 Stskeeps: you here? I want to install deblet. My main system runs diablo via multiboot from the external mmc. I have a spare 2gb partition - what's the best way? :D Aug 23 14:53:35 lcuk: i have access to an array represnrting the picture, but then. i m stuck as i have no idea how to use this in the gtk drawarea Aug 23 14:54:42 this is not the kind of question that can be answered in irc, read up about gtk drawing areas and how to access and modify the data Aug 23 14:54:49 you already know your problem Aug 23 14:55:26 hmmm. Aug 23 14:56:16 qWeRtY12 Aug 23 14:56:33 RsT38h Aug 23 14:57:44 RST38h: does your nick refer to the nice DOS call to reset the machine? ;P Aug 23 14:57:51 ~lart my sister for sleeping for ages and ages and ages and having my charger delivered in her name so I can't open it Aug 23 14:57:51 * infobot DoSes my sister for sleeping for ages and ages and ages and having my charger delivered in her name so I can't open it Aug 23 14:57:56 AStorm: No. Aug 23 14:58:13 "F5 RST38H ;- something like a esc-funktion - quit to monitor when ever a keyboard-funtion is called and this key is pressed, then manchine-code 0xff==RST38h will be executed (jumps to address 0x38)" Aug 23 14:58:36 Amiga... ouch Aug 23 14:58:41 No. Aug 23 14:59:00 RST38h is Z80. Also 8080, where it was known as RST7 Aug 23 14:59:01 indeed, Z-80 Aug 23 14:59:05 "EXECUTE TEST: In this test, the entire RAM is written with Z-80 RST38H (0FFH) Aug 23 14:59:05 instructions. Then a block of machine code is written to the bottom of the test Aug 23 14:59:05 area and an attempt is made to execute it. If the attempt is successful, the Aug 23 14:59:05 block is moved up one address and a new attempt is made to execute it. This Aug 23 14:59:05 continues until all available RAM has been tested. If the Z-80 should encounter Aug 23 14:59:07 one of the RST38H instructions instead of the expected code, it will jump to Aug 23 14:59:09 location 38H then branch to a special error-handling routine. While the test is Aug 23 14:59:10 whee Aug 23 14:59:12 running, screen messages will indicate the address of the current test block, Aug 23 14:59:14 and which loop (0-3) is running." Aug 23 14:59:15 Shit Aug 23 14:59:19 /kb qwerty12 Aug 23 14:59:24 It is an interrupt vector, really Aug 23 14:59:30 RST38h: sure Aug 23 14:59:31 he sure types quick... Aug 23 14:59:41 if only... Aug 23 14:59:53 The reason why RST38h was used was because it opcode (0xFF) corresponds to the "floating" bus Aug 23 15:00:08 ffs, I want to charge my N800 so I can test an initfs binary >.< Aug 23 15:00:14 So you did not need the interrupt controller (8259 or its like) Aug 23 15:01:08 qwerty12: doesn't a new standard nokia charger work? Aug 23 15:01:14 question to all: which optimisations do you use, which appear to give best results? Aug 23 15:01:24 lcuk: perl Aug 23 15:01:38 gcc opts actually ;) Aug 23 15:01:45 lbt: yeah, I ordered one in my sisters name (too young for a credit card) except its failing as she is still sleeping ! Aug 23 15:02:30 qwerty12, is there a chance you have b0rkened it? Aug 23 15:02:30 qwerty12: :P Aug 23 15:02:38 buy one yourself Aug 23 15:02:39 they don't sell them for �2 at a local phone shop Aug 23 15:02:48 btw, I want AC-5e - the travel charger Aug 23 15:02:57 it's tiny and supplies the needed 890 mA Aug 23 15:03:08 i have an emergency charger which takes an AA battery Aug 23 15:03:23 who made it? Aug 23 15:03:27 lcuk: I hope not. I messed around a bit (spliced old nokia charger onto new connector) but I tested with another charger and it started up fine Aug 23 15:03:32 what's the max current Aug 23 15:03:43 qwerty12: yes, it's the same charger Aug 23 15:03:46 i got it from the o2 shop, its o2 branded box Aug 23 15:04:14 actually, AC-4e was made in 3 versions - old 5V plug, new Nokia plug, USB plug Aug 23 15:04:39 it's crummy anyway and n8x0 overloads it slightly Aug 23 15:05:21 * qwerty12 wonders what service manuals say regarding charging Aug 23 15:05:22 * RST38h is all for the old 5V plug btw Aug 23 15:05:28 RST38h: same here Aug 23 15:05:33 I'm all for another USB port Aug 23 15:05:34 qwerty: "Do not use third party chargers" Aug 23 15:05:35 :) Aug 23 15:05:43 AStrorm: Yes, but micro usb or mini usb? Aug 23 15:05:45 RST38h: it's a first-party charger Aug 23 15:05:50 RST38h: obviously mini USB Aug 23 15:05:55 yep Aug 23 15:05:58 overloads it slightly? Surely those chargers are built with current-limitators Aug 23 15:05:59 as micro USB is nowhere to be found Aug 23 15:06:00 micro usb is way too tiny Aug 23 15:06:11 ShadowJK: which happen to allow for 10% overcurrent Aug 23 15:06:15 :> Aug 23 15:06:19 afaik, micro usb is the new standard in the industry Aug 23 15:06:27 unused yet Aug 23 15:06:35 I've charged with a 350mA charger :) Aug 23 15:06:44 ShadowJK: I tried that too Aug 23 15:06:55 that power control chip inside n810 is very flexible Aug 23 15:07:03 it took some current from battery in that case Aug 23 15:07:11 (instead of charging) Aug 23 15:07:16 Energizer's 2*AA emergency charger works splendidly too Aug 23 15:07:27 ShadowJK: gimme - link? Aug 23 15:08:13 http://www.techforless.com/cgi-bin/tech4less/CEL2SPR?mv_pc=google_base&tts=20080822020701 Aug 23 15:08:16 for example Aug 23 15:08:19 you get loads of results on google Aug 23 15:08:20 ShadowJK, i wanted a 2 cell version, but all i could find was the single, it slightly annoyed me Aug 23 15:08:28 2x AA Lithium = expensive Aug 23 15:08:32 I want 2x NiMH Aug 23 15:08:58 It works on 2 recently charged nimh too Aug 23 15:09:10 blah Aug 23 15:09:18 it'll die due to voltage fall Aug 23 15:09:23 nah Aug 23 15:09:28 sure it will Aug 23 15:09:31 It cuts off at 1 Volt Aug 23 15:09:33 Lithium is constant voltage Aug 23 15:09:34 per cell Aug 23 15:09:43 1,7V too Aug 23 15:09:47 per cell Aug 23 15:09:57 NiMH is 1,4V per cell, average Aug 23 15:10:08 it just wont fire up at less than 1.37 or something Aug 23 15:10:18 1,2V I thought Aug 23 15:10:29 Kegetys: yes Aug 23 15:10:36 1,4V max actually, I failed Aug 23 15:10:47 "nominal", which in nimh is measured like the median on discharge curve or something... Aug 23 15:10:48 so, it's unsuitable for NiMH Aug 23 15:10:51 no Aug 23 15:11:01 it's the voltage in the stable state Aug 23 15:11:03 not median :) Aug 23 15:11:13 median would be higher Aug 23 15:11:20 sometimes i just have to take my hat of for GeneralAntilles... Aug 23 15:11:55 I've found 2xAA elsewhere, some that even run down your batteries squeezing everything out of them (bad for nimh), but none that put out as much current as teh energizer Aug 23 15:13:36 But that energizer charger, if it just fires up it runs until 2V, which should eat atleast 75% of the energy in nimh cells Aug 23 15:14:03 lbt: well are you going to use my bootmenu patches? Aug 23 15:14:41 ShadowJK: ok, the real question is: where can I get these nice Maxims I found at quantity Aug 23 15:14:54 nice maxims? :) Aug 23 15:14:55 ALL places that had them disappeared or are out of stock Aug 23 15:15:17 ShadowJK: MAX17xx family Aug 23 15:15:20 lbt: easiest way is really just getting the .install files from http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/deblet-diablo.install Aug 23 15:15:29 http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:l33YZ4S5T7IJ:www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/maxim/MAX1763.pdf+Maxim+MAX1763&hl=pl&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=pl&client=firefox-a Aug 23 15:15:36 this is the one Aug 23 15:15:36 lmao, I think maxim as in magazine.... Aug 23 15:15:48 qwerty12: no no, the microchip producer Aug 23 15:16:03 yeah, just joking :) Aug 23 15:16:04 http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/2356 - better link Aug 23 15:17:29 tell me where can I get these in 10s Aug 23 15:17:31 not 1000s Aug 23 15:17:39 Is anyone familiar with problems with Android on OS 2008? I installed it as per http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21495 but when I click on the Android icon in extras I see the CPU spike for a while but nothing happens. Aug 23 15:18:17 I've run into availability problems everytime I've had the idea of building my own, too :) Aug 23 15:18:44 ShadowJK: I scrapped *one* such chip from an old cell-phone Aug 23 15:19:52 in the end I just disassembled a generic cigarette plug charger and made it run on 8 nimh Aug 23 15:21:08 8 NiMH is huge Aug 23 15:21:25 I'd rather build a large Li-Poly battery in that case Aug 23 15:21:36 I'm thinking like 2x NiMH Aug 23 15:21:44 ah, I see Aug 23 15:21:52 get 2 1-cell and tape them together? :) Aug 23 15:21:53 Maxim phased these nice family of chips out Aug 23 15:22:07 now MAX170xx is the rage Aug 23 15:22:38 but it has a bit too small range Aug 23 15:22:40 on topic of small chargers: http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20080726/duracell-offers-pocket-sized-chargers/ Aug 23 15:22:45 MAX17067 Aug 23 15:23:13 lbt: i'm rewriting installation guide right now to match the new way Aug 23 15:23:29 * ShadowJK finds max 1771 available in scandinavia Aug 23 15:23:42 If someone wants to test something for me, grab this http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/initfs-test, chmod +x it and remount initfs rw and shove that binary and then chroot to /mnt/initfs and tell me if initfs-test runs from the initfs please. Thank you. Aug 23 15:24:16 * qwerty12 would do it but I'm chargerless! The binary is harmless, just displays a message Aug 23 15:24:18 *bit too small input range that is Aug 23 15:24:58 t_s_o: it's Li-Ion based Aug 23 15:25:11 which means I can't grab batteries anywhere ;P Aug 23 15:25:16 one of them are, the other can take two AA's Aug 23 15:25:45 specifically the pocket charger Aug 23 15:26:07 ahhh... Aug 23 15:26:12 it's made by Xantrex Aug 23 15:26:14 it must be good Aug 23 15:27:02 Maximum charging current 0.5 A - too low Aug 23 15:27:04 but iirc, nokia have a combo device thats called DC-8 or something like that. it can take batteries, but also have a built in li-ion cell Aug 23 15:27:10 qwerty12: cp to /mnt/initfs/tmp would do the trick too Aug 23 15:27:12 t_s_o: that's 4x AA Aug 23 15:27:18 ok Aug 23 15:27:34 0.5 to low? Aug 23 15:27:37 n8x0 needs 1A to run well Aug 23 15:27:41 Stskeeps: Ah yes, /tmp > /mnt/initfs/tmp. I wonder how that remains rw :> Aug 23 15:27:48 0.5A is too low for the device to run Aug 23 15:27:54 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11867 Aug 23 15:28:00 barely enough to sustain base power use at 300 mA Aug 23 15:28:07 hm Aug 23 15:28:07 add MMC and you get 500 mA Aug 23 15:28:08 seems to work fine of the usb here, and the usb max out at 0.5 Aug 23 15:28:14 But I want to see if that binary runs, then it means the toolchain is working and I can get to compiling mtd-tools for initfs Aug 23 15:28:19 t_s_o: it does work, but won't charge unless idle Aug 23 15:28:29 been there, done that Aug 23 15:28:35 heh, may explain a bit :P Aug 23 15:28:42 With screen off and sitting on my desk, connected to wlan, my N810 seems to last a few days on battery? Aug 23 15:28:56 ah right Aug 23 15:28:57 with proper WMM in wifi router? Aug 23 15:29:03 yes Aug 23 15:29:10 also makes me wonder if me buying a philips power2charge was a stupid move... Aug 23 15:29:21 AStorm, ah right, you want to run full power constantly :) Aug 23 15:29:37 ShadowJK: not really, but you need like 750 mA to charge comfortably Aug 23 15:29:51 and 1A to charge quickly Aug 23 15:29:58 as in full stress, n810 can eat 800 mA Aug 23 15:30:19 guess why the battery runtime is 4,5h - 5h Aug 23 15:30:21 :> Aug 23 15:30:22 om nom nom nom! Aug 23 15:30:27 "one particular marijuana farmer had to be mighty embarrassed / wondering what he ever did to deserve such bad luck when a GPS-equipped turtle meandered into his crop." Aug 23 15:30:40 it was only a few plants Aug 23 15:31:03 yea, that was what he said in the court =) Aug 23 15:31:19 shit, that means my invention is working Aug 23 15:31:21 and one stoned turtle Aug 23 15:31:25 I wonder if you can connect several of those battery-powered chargers in parallell, or if they interfere with eachother Aug 23 15:31:28 lcuk: hahaha Aug 23 15:31:33 it doesn't stone turtles Aug 23 15:31:49 ShadowJK: well, you could, through a diode for safety Aug 23 15:31:54 * qwerty12 remembers stoned cheetah in harold and kumar Aug 23 15:32:09 Battery is 1.5Ah, so at 800mA it will be about 2 hours Aug 23 15:32:11 Not 6 Aug 23 15:32:28 that is assuming running voltage of 3.7v Aug 23 15:32:35 it's not :) Aug 23 15:32:43 it's running on various voltages Aug 23 15:32:56 so, the aggregate would be like 500 mA Aug 23 15:33:05 500mA at 3.7V? Aug 23 15:33:10 yes Aug 23 15:33:11 3 hours Aug 23 15:33:14 yes Aug 23 15:33:20 which is actually correct Aug 23 15:33:26 Actually, it pretty much corresponds to the minimal running time battery applet reports Aug 23 15:33:30 but you'd have to blast both MMC and full CPU Aug 23 15:33:43 mplayer to the rescue! =) Aug 23 15:33:52 *both* MMC :> Aug 23 15:33:59 and put something on USB port Aug 23 15:34:25 also run wifi and BT Aug 23 15:34:54 Harold and Kumar was a great flick Aug 23 15:35:00 That guy still cracks me up in House. Aug 23 15:36:36 HOLY SHIT! My sister actually got up :O. Charger is mine.... Aug 23 15:36:37 RST38h: I want more of that Menelaus chip Aug 23 15:36:54 it's pure gold ;) Aug 23 15:36:55 AStorm: Hit me up, I've got N810 service manuals and schematics Aug 23 15:37:14 qwerty12: I do know where to chip in ;P Aug 23 15:37:34 Heh :) Aug 23 15:37:52 one hack I want to do some time is connecting USB port with the power in Aug 23 15:37:57 I need to see if my initfs binary works... Aug 23 15:38:02 and adding a bit of soft to negotiate 500 mA Aug 23 15:38:28 bonus if I can make it work both ways and have a powered USB port in that case Aug 23 15:38:32 :> Aug 23 15:39:06 AStorm: mencoder transcoding from one mmc to the other! Aug 23 15:39:44 RST38h: still add wifi and BT Aug 23 15:39:54 and something on USB Aug 23 15:41:55 ok: playing music from NFS drive over wifi in the background Aug 23 15:42:24 wrong Aug 23 15:42:36 s/NFS drive/BT cell phone/ Aug 23 15:42:46 and making network available to that phone over wifi Aug 23 15:43:03 that leaves only USB Aug 23 15:43:29 ah Aug 23 15:43:38 n810 is connected to the internet over USB ;P Aug 23 15:43:43 how low can one go and still have the N800 charge while idle? Aug 23 15:43:55 t_s_o: 400 mA is my bet Aug 23 15:44:15 350 mA charger barely charged it Aug 23 15:44:27 hmm, no wonder my recently bought power2charge from philips seems to not really like my N800... Aug 23 15:45:25 well i guess it can still work in a pinch... Aug 23 15:45:32 450 mA charger had no problem charging it in idle Aug 23 15:46:00 * ShadowJK starts charging in idle Aug 23 15:46:03 350 mA one caused battery drain in stress Aug 23 15:46:08 well this thing is really rated for 350, but have 450 as a upper safety margin... Aug 23 15:46:12 42% when I started, according to battery-status :) Aug 23 15:46:42 t_s_o: so it'll explode when n810 tries to pull >450 mA from it ;P Aug 23 15:46:50 unless it has some nice safety circuit Aug 23 15:47:13 * AStorm still wants those MAX1763 - they look perfect Aug 23 15:47:17 or some analog Aug 23 15:47:17 knowing philips its some kind of safety in there, as the indicator light was blinking on and of while i tested it Aug 23 15:47:30 yes, overcurrent shutdown Aug 23 15:47:41 but when i tested it again today, that didnt happen... Aug 23 15:47:49 is there anything which can view the profiling data produced by gcc? Aug 23 15:47:53 n810 is smart and adjusts current Aug 23 15:47:57 lcuk: it's called gprof Aug 23 15:48:03 thanks :) Aug 23 15:48:07 maybe Aug 23 15:48:16 t_s_o: not maybe, certainly Aug 23 15:48:26 it uses something like exponential backoff Aug 23 15:48:29 ;P Aug 23 15:48:38 dont tell me much Aug 23 15:48:39 as I said, Menelaus is an excellent design Aug 23 15:48:40 lbt: i've updated installation instructions on trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet to fit the new installer Aug 23 15:48:57 all nokia devices seem to have a phase in the charging where it pulses the charging current, so that makes indicator lights blink on some chargers Aug 23 15:49:29 my guess from recent experience, that happens close to full battery on the N800 Aug 23 15:49:55 yeah Aug 23 15:50:00 yes Aug 23 15:50:03 and that may explain why the p2c was blinking last night Aug 23 15:50:07 pulse charging of Li-Poly Aug 23 15:50:17 the constant-voltage phase Aug 23 15:50:45 there's probably a "huge" cap it's charging to keep voltage constant Aug 23 15:51:56 i was just thinking like so "N800 has the same charger port as a N-series phone, and the p2c supports N-series phones. i guess they should work" Aug 23 15:53:22 the big annoying thing for me was that i could not find any input voltage data for the N800... Aug 23 15:53:37 My E70 consumes more power than my N810 :) Aug 23 15:53:47 t_s_o: input voltage is 5V Aug 23 15:53:47 Because I use it as modem and that eats lots :) Aug 23 15:53:54 max 5,5V Aug 23 15:54:09 ShadowJK: E70 sure is power hungry, yes Aug 23 15:54:23 I had 6820 before, it ate even more power doing the same Aug 23 15:54:47 huh wha? Aug 23 15:54:56 how did you measure? Aug 23 15:55:22 the 6820 battery fits in E70, runtime is longer in E70 ;) Aug 23 15:56:01 It's not surprising really, if you consider the USB 3G modem dongles come with usb Y cables in case your motherboard doesn't supply more than 500mA per port :) Aug 23 15:56:59 cant say i have seen many dongles do that... Aug 23 15:57:27 well they're all >500mA iirc Aug 23 15:58:53 WTF is up with my N800, I shove the charger in and it hangs on White nokia logo and goes off. Charger works in N80 and N73. Aug 23 15:59:26 Oh, just my luck, the new charger is fucked up. Aug 23 15:59:33 :S Aug 23 15:59:41 Stskeeps: ok - been looking at that and insatlling the bootmenu.deb Aug 23 15:59:53 ~lart nokia's anal-retentive shitty charger Aug 23 15:59:53 * infobot squishes nokia's anal-retentive shitty charger like a bug Aug 23 16:01:28 ANNOUNCEMENT: SlideRule 1.0 now officially available from http://fms.komkon.org/SlideRule/ Aug 23 16:02:01 [.deb uploaded to Extras and awaiting XFade's approval, product page coming up as soon as there is a .deb in Extras] Aug 23 16:03:07 guess ill stay of the deb on the page then Aug 23 16:03:22 [in unrelated news, ASUS is releasing scented laptops] Aug 23 16:03:40 t_s_o: it will be the same .deb, so you should be ok Aug 23 16:03:43 yay, smelly laptops. thats new ;) Aug 23 16:03:57 i thought they all smeled Aug 23 16:04:02 RST38h: yep, but app manager and updating off extra after a direct install dont really mix Aug 23 16:04:17 ShadowJK: they do when the battery pops ;) Aug 23 16:04:27 t_s_o, that should work fine. Aug 23 16:04:41 mostly of plastic and paint Aug 23 16:04:42 It's repository -> .deb upgrade that's problematic. Aug 23 16:05:26 well i had some funny errors when updating to a repo package after using one of .deb earlier Aug 23 16:05:49 t_s_o: they do for me, as long as it is the same package Aug 23 16:06:01 app manager was giving me a weird error and apt-get needed med to say yes to installing it as it was not certified or something Aug 23 16:06:37 yea, it would happen if the paclage you installed from the deb could not be identified as a previous version of the repo package Aug 23 16:07:46 then how did app manager see a update in the first place? *confused* Aug 23 16:09:24 Stskeeps: you mentioned I needed some funky sudo package IIRC - did it go in as a dependency? I have to run install_bootmenu from a ssh session :) Aug 23 16:09:30 Packages from a repo are always prioritised over debs installed locally even with the same version number. Retarded behaviour but... Aug 23 16:11:04 lbt: yeah, rootsh should go in automatically Aug 23 16:11:09 if you use .install Aug 23 16:11:15 Eh, probably worthwhile for nubs Aug 23 16:11:23 lbt: my "newest" installation guide doesnt mention bootmenu.deb though :P Aug 23 16:12:05 no - I did that earlier for fun Aug 23 16:12:08 hey RST38h, how about using the back key as the C key? Aug 23 16:12:16 I'm running the installer now - it was fine Aug 23 16:12:37 I need to specify a local apt-cacher url so doing that... Aug 23 16:13:13 k, should be possible in the "" Aug 23 16:13:17 yep Aug 23 16:13:28 can't remember my port... looking Aug 23 16:13:56 lbt: just verify you use my latest bootmenu.deb from dependancies/bootmenu as i changed some stuff lately to fix some bugs in the bootmenu.conf Aug 23 16:16:12 hah Aug 23 16:16:31 i know now more about sh quirkiness than i want to know Aug 23 16:16:32 :P Aug 23 16:16:36 it looks like I used the old bootmenu - I setup an /etc/bootmenu.d Aug 23 16:16:51 and during the reboot it seemed to work Aug 23 16:17:02 however it took a while and I got worrie Aug 23 16:17:04 d Aug 23 16:17:07 then it booted Aug 23 16:17:12 yeah, it takes a bit due to journal Aug 23 16:17:18 and *now* I realise it was failing to boot my mmc Aug 23 16:17:26 ah Aug 23 16:17:26 it silently resorted to flash Aug 23 16:17:40 so I'm not in the distro I thought I was.... oops Aug 23 16:18:05 well, i think i've ironed out the bugs in my stuff now as i havent made it break with two installations :P Aug 23 16:18:07 I prefer my linuxrc that cycles the menu until you select a menu item that boots Aug 23 16:18:22 granted my system is now a bit odd Aug 23 16:18:40 *nod* Aug 23 16:18:53 i should have some more checks for existence of linuxrc and such in my bootmenu.sh prolly Aug 23 16:19:13 .. i have marks after my ways of popping the battery on the battery :( Aug 23 16:19:25 Aug 23 16:19:41 bootmenu needs an overhaul Aug 23 16:19:42 Stskeeps: no, you lose to me Aug 23 16:19:47 I almost killed the battery ;> Aug 23 16:19:53 * qwerty12 just used a knife, eventually it loosened enough so I just have to use fingernails now Aug 23 16:19:54 lbt: yes, it needs more modularity Aug 23 16:20:20 AStorm: Stskeeps started with a bootmenu.d/ Aug 23 16:20:23 maemo init system needs an overhaul too Aug 23 16:20:35 yes - but my bug on that is WONTFIX Aug 23 16:20:43 since there's a new one on the way Aug 23 16:21:00 I'd like to get an early preview so we can make it more open Aug 23 16:21:06 and modular Aug 23 16:21:18 whee Aug 23 16:21:25 I suggest Gentoo init Aug 23 16:21:27 ;P Aug 23 16:21:31 uhuh Aug 23 16:21:42 * qwerty12 used upstart, speed of booting was great, would hang on shutdown Aug 23 16:21:54 upstart is very tricky to code for Aug 23 16:22:45 lbt: diablo messing up initfs at flash just makes me sure that there should be a install bootmenu icon :P Aug 23 16:22:48 cos so many people run into it Aug 23 16:23:07 is there a program which displays a large dial pad for dialing numbers and connects to a cellphone using bluetooth to actually dial it? Aug 23 16:23:21 lbt, you going to the Summit? Aug 23 16:23:31 Now I know why they use uclibc, http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/Screenshot.png ... Aug 23 16:23:32 I installed PhoneLink, thinking that it's what I want and it is in terms of functionality but it doesn't have the large numeric dialpad Aug 23 16:23:36 GeneralAntilles: no, not this time Aug 23 16:23:48 when is it? Aug 23 16:23:49 lbt, it'd be a good time to discuss Fremantle stuff. ;) Aug 23 16:23:55 's true Aug 23 16:24:00 September 19th and 20th Aug 23 16:24:03 i should show up drunk and with a vodka bottle Aug 23 16:24:19 qwerty12: they should've used statically-linked uclibc Aug 23 16:24:29 not dynamically linked uclibc Aug 23 16:24:42 Stskeeps and with a 770 Aug 23 16:24:49 crying about dropped support. Aug 23 16:25:35 did 770 have two slots btw? Aug 23 16:25:54 AStorm: Yeah, first binary is dynamically linked to uclibc and is the smallest naturally but won't run in initfs, the second binary is 31KB and statically linked to uclibc which runs and is a decent size but then, the same binary statically linked to glibc is 532 KB! Aug 23 16:27:18 * qwerty12 gets to statically compiling mtd-tools against uclibc Aug 23 16:27:32 Stskeeps, just one RS-MMC. Aug 23 16:27:39 ah, sucks Aug 23 16:27:42 qwerty12: glibc is a hog Aug 23 16:27:50 linking statically against glibc is totally pointless Aug 23 16:27:51 The N800 is a big step up over the 770. Aug 23 16:28:49 AStorm: For sure. This is just a tiny 174 byte c file that displays 2 lines on the screen and I get a 532KB binary :/ Aug 23 16:29:12 qwerty12: is it stripped too? Aug 23 16:29:23 Stskeeps: Not stripped Aug 23 16:29:33 But good idea, I should get into the habit of doing that Aug 23 16:29:44 yeah, stripping will axe a bit of file size Aug 23 16:30:11 * qwerty12 wants to shove a quick menu on fanoush's bootmenu that will use mtd-tools to dump mtdblock4 to my mmc which I can then restore at my disposal Aug 23 16:32:44 i'd still say a .img file could do the trick if there's not enough space or whatever Aug 23 16:32:47 :P Aug 23 16:33:24 It's not about space reasons, I just want a proper backup thing, one that will restore everything as it was before Aug 23 16:34:09 *nod* Aug 23 16:34:12 Yep, strip's made it go from 31.4KB to 19.9KB, thanks Aug 23 16:49:52 t_s_o: What back key? Aug 23 16:50:21 case 0x08: Aug 23 16:50:21 Roll.In(0x08); Aug 23 16:50:21 break; Aug 23 16:50:25 This back key? Aug 23 16:52:20 err, back/esc the one that shows a arrow on the N800 Aug 23 16:53:58 hmm, never mind. i see now that its used to get out of the F menus... Aug 23 16:54:20 That key us ESC Aug 23 16:54:24 s/us/is/ Aug 23 16:54:24 RST38h meant: That key is ESC Aug 23 16:54:31 ok Aug 23 16:54:46 Kinda dangerous to use it for BS as it has other meanings Aug 23 16:54:56 it works as a kind of back button in the browser so... Aug 23 16:55:07 that's a hack, yes ;) Aug 23 16:55:17 guess so Aug 23 16:55:59 ~lart Nokia for using GDK_Fx key codes for hardware keys Aug 23 16:56:00 * infobot explains, ever so gently, that if Nokia for using GDK_Fx key codes doesn't give the channel more information, they can't help for hardware keys Aug 23 16:56:15 mhm Aug 23 16:56:32 uh wtf? Aug 23 16:56:32 :S Aug 23 16:56:37 was that English? Aug 23 16:57:19 anyways, now im torn between sliderule and mathjinni... Aug 23 16:57:33 I want qalculate for maemo Aug 23 16:57:37 someone should build it Aug 23 16:58:01 it's much better and easier to use than that HP42 calc Aug 23 16:58:04 lbt: did you use my .install for diablo btw? did it install without hassle? Aug 23 16:58:11 I think it was a bug Aug 23 16:59:06 btw, anyone managed to get a HSDPA/GSM modem working with n8x0? Aug 23 16:59:41 not quite Aug 23 16:59:47 trying again now Aug 23 17:00:02 (got sidetracked with a debian nfs-common bug on my wife's box...) Aug 23 17:00:03 AStorm: harass qwerty12 or pupnik, ask them to port Aug 23 17:00:13 RST38h: no port needed, just a build Aug 23 17:00:21 or build Aug 23 17:00:27 it's a gtk calculator after all :> Aug 23 17:00:31 although I highly doubt that it will work well without hildonization Aug 23 17:00:35 why not? Aug 23 17:00:46 will not look native Aug 23 17:00:48 lbt: k Aug 23 17:00:58 it uses the standard gtk textbox with ownerdrawing of a bit of text Aug 23 17:01:00 but it shouldn't be a lot of a problem anyway Aug 23 17:01:11 s/textbox/combobox/ Aug 23 17:01:11 AStorm meant: it uses the standard gtk combobox with ownerdrawing of a bit of text Aug 23 17:02:40 AStorm: That is especially scary, considering that Hildon may have added a few changes to the standard combobox ;) Aug 23 17:02:58 well, this minor ownerdraw should work Aug 23 17:03:05 as it's done correctly Aug 23 17:03:16 may get laid out differently Aug 23 17:03:22 but yes, ownerdraw will still work Aug 23 17:03:24 nah, it's just right aligned Aug 23 17:03:47 btw, try to ignore qalculate's website Aug 23 17:03:50 it's horrible ;P Aug 23 17:04:20 Stskeeps: I guess I made a typo in the url line again ... Aug 23 17:04:34 where is the list kept? Aug 23 17:04:55 hmm, it might need a bit of hildonization for the popup list of units/functions Aug 23 17:05:38 got it /usr/share/deblet/debian_mirrors.lst Aug 23 17:07:54 it has got multiple windows Aug 23 17:07:57 bootstrapping Aug 23 17:08:03 and gnuplot integration Aug 23 17:08:23 i.e. one will have to hildonize its windows and probably port/hildonize gnuplot too Aug 23 17:08:59 RST38h: well, multiple windows are not important too much Aug 23 17:09:33 menu will have to be cut down a bit most likely Aug 23 17:16:21 lbt: so you installed with the .install (did the installation of the installer program work)? Aug 23 17:16:34 yes Aug 23 17:16:48 I don't think there were any real problems Aug 23 17:16:52 oki Aug 23 17:16:54 sounds good Aug 23 17:17:09 It didn't do very well supporting my existing multiboot Aug 23 17:17:17 prolly not Aug 23 17:17:21 (but thats not a deblet issue) Aug 23 17:17:59 I made some notes on that - my main one is "give me a shell to edit bootmenu.d and other things like partition device nodes" Aug 23 17:18:09 for initfs i guess Aug 23 17:18:13 yes Aug 23 17:18:20 then at least I could have tried to reboot Aug 23 17:18:28 into my mmcp2 rootfs Aug 23 17:18:36 my next issue to solve is the Dreaded Fsck Bug.. for some fucked up reason, if you have a ext2/3 fs, if you pop battery in deblet, and try to boot up deblet, fsck refuses to run because of "Device or resource busy" Aug 23 17:18:44 without any open files to claim why this might be the case Aug 23 17:19:14 that's my biggest bug before an actual release Aug 23 17:19:16 ok Aug 23 17:19:45 well it'll be a while - it's pulling 'apt' right now... Aug 23 17:19:50 yeah.. Aug 23 17:20:00 i ran two installations today to test Aug 23 17:20:11 one into a file, one into partition Aug 23 17:20:29 oh yes, I noticed it tried to unmount all the partitions Aug 23 17:20:36 glad rootfs wasn't there :) Aug 23 17:20:55 it cant umount rootfs anyway, so Aug 23 17:20:57 I think there may be some script re-ordering needed - not syre Aug 23 17:21:11 partioner refuses to work if theres a mounted partition, so Aug 23 17:22:35 I also found the list of partitions (/proc/partitions?) less than helpful.. cfdisk -P Aug 23 17:23:35 best way to represent i could find :P Aug 23 17:24:03 it could probably be more wide Aug 23 17:24:59 you can use fdisk -l Aug 23 17:25:11 no such thing on normal maemo.. Aug 23 17:25:12 :P Aug 23 17:25:25 indeed Aug 23 17:25:34 okay, maybe sfdisk -l would be better.. Aug 23 17:25:42 cfdisk -P s /dev/mmcblk0 Aug 23 17:25:56 that's busybox cfdisk IIRC Aug 23 17:26:09 busybox in maemo doesnt have cfdisk Aug 23 17:26:38 cfdisk you have is from my repo :P Aug 23 17:26:49 gotcha Aug 23 17:27:01 cfdisk -P s is what you see in the dialog Aug 23 17:27:53 * Stskeeps alters and commits Aug 23 17:46:38 hah, two hours of charging at max 350mA and battery-status says charge level has dropped .4% :-) Aug 23 17:46:56 I told you ;P Aug 23 17:51:19 I think the N810 isn't eating full 350 though, because the charger isn't getting warm Aug 23 17:51:23 :P Aug 23 17:52:46 it is Aug 23 17:53:00 the charger shouldn't get warm ever Aug 23 17:53:05 it's just a few watts Aug 23 17:53:12 350 mA * 5V = x W Aug 23 17:53:30 a bit below 2 W Aug 23 17:53:41 let's now suppose 80% efficiency Aug 23 17:54:35 that is just 0.35W to be dissipated Aug 23 17:54:49 this isn't anywhere near enough to get warm Aug 23 18:05:13 since it's a battery-powered charger, it should've actually have run down the batter some time ago :) Aug 23 18:05:19 if it was outputting 350mA Aug 23 18:07:04 nah, if I follow correctly 350mA is what it's dissipating as heat Aug 23 18:07:16 my assumption is, is that it's not 80% efficient Aug 23 18:07:21 'lo johnx Aug 23 18:07:29 hey Stskeeps Aug 23 18:07:50 johnx: i have scary hack making .img files bootable and installer debootstrapping into it :> Aug 23 18:08:10 Stskeeps, what's scary about it? just mounting loopback right? Aug 23 18:08:20 you'd think so. except initfs busybox doesn't do loopback Aug 23 18:08:54 busybox mount? Aug 23 18:08:58 hmm...that's a PITA Aug 23 18:08:58 yeah Aug 23 18:09:15 so i had to compile newest busybox with only mount in it, use a scary combination of not mounting vfat noexec and running busybox_mount from the mmc, and mount -o remount,noexec later :P Aug 23 18:09:47 it works, though Aug 23 18:09:53 you're right. that's kinda scary Aug 23 18:10:42 ShadowJK: how large are the batteries? Aug 23 18:11:00 johnx: 0.35 W = 350 mW is dissipated as heat Aug 23 18:11:07 if it's 80% efficient Aug 23 18:11:15 1500mAh AA nimh ;) Aug 23 18:11:15 it's more likely that it's over 90% efficient Aug 23 18:11:19 AStorm, I kinda assume it's not Aug 23 18:11:27 ShadowJK: well, then it's good for some hours Aug 23 18:11:32 I suspect like, 8h Aug 23 18:11:39 johnx: it doesn't get warm :> Aug 23 18:11:41 eh Aug 23 18:11:55 AStorm, ah, nevermind then. I misread I guess... Aug 23 18:12:43 ShadowJK: I lied Aug 23 18:12:45 more like 4h Aug 23 18:13:03 unless the step up is 90% efficient at 1.2V -> 5V Aug 23 18:13:06 which is unlikely Aug 23 18:13:12 johnx: but it gives funny abilities like dual-booting between maemo (and using chroot) and deblet, so you share settings and such Aug 23 18:13:13 1.2V * 1.5Ah = 1.8 Watthours, 5 Volts * .35 A = 1.75Watt.. should last slightly more than an hour if 100% efficient? Aug 23 18:13:25 johnx: and this without repartitioning Aug 23 18:13:30 huh what? Aug 23 18:13:54 ShadowJK: sorry, it's 1500 mAh Aug 23 18:13:59 you get 90% of that Aug 23 18:14:13 and you're pulling 350 mA Aug 23 18:14:25 1500 * 0.9 / 350 = hours Aug 23 18:14:29 You don't get 1500mAh at 5Volts out of a 1.2V 1500mAh battery Aug 23 18:14:42 yes, but you're running two, righT? Aug 23 18:14:52 >>> 1500 * 0.9 / 350 Aug 23 18:14:52 3.8571428571428572 Aug 23 18:14:53 oh this one takes one :P Aug 23 18:15:05 ah, so it's probably like 80% efficient then Aug 23 18:15:15 that gives 3.5h Aug 23 18:15:19 You have to account for the voltage differene Aug 23 18:15:22 ... Aug 23 18:15:34 80% efficiency means you get 80% of power Aug 23 18:15:43 A isn't power Aug 23 18:15:44 the 20% are wasted Aug 23 18:15:55 ShadowJK: it is, if multiplied by 1h Aug 23 18:15:55 ;P Aug 23 18:16:05 actually, it's work then Aug 23 18:16:14 we want time to run down Aug 23 18:16:39 so you get capacity in Ah * efficiency / (current * time) Aug 23 18:16:53 assuming it's pulling 350 mA, that means it uses 350mAh in an hour Aug 23 18:17:06 In that case you must measure current from the AA battery, not current into the N8x0 Aug 23 18:17:11 no Aug 23 18:17:14 yes Aug 23 18:17:18 efficiency takes care of that Aug 23 18:17:21 :) Aug 23 18:17:39 efficiency = conversion efficiency Aug 23 18:18:00 so, n810 sees that much capacity actually, taking into account all conversion losses Aug 23 18:18:08 There's no circuit in the world that will take 1.5 volt at .35/.8 A and output 5V at .35A Aug 23 18:18:15 sure, there is Aug 23 18:18:19 No there isn't Aug 23 18:18:21 it's called a step-up DC/DC converter Aug 23 18:18:38 uhm, wait Aug 23 18:18:43 it will take more current, yes Aug 23 18:18:48 but you don't care Aug 23 18:19:03 as efficiency takes that into consideration Aug 23 18:19:35 The basic principle is that input watts is same as output watts, minus efficiency losses Aug 23 18:19:44 efficiency means how much mA you will get of 1 A pulled from the battery Aug 23 18:19:50 yes Aug 23 18:19:57 as voltage is set Aug 23 18:20:29 time is also same Aug 23 18:20:53 it's pulling like 450 mA from the battery Aug 23 18:21:26 So 5Volts out at .35A, that's 1.75Watt. At an input voltage of 1.2 Volt, you will need 1.75W / 1.2V = 1.46 Amps, assuming 100% efficient conversion. At 80% efficienct that becomes about 1.82 Amps Aug 23 18:21:48 johnx: odd question.. did beta3 do fscks or not? Aug 23 18:21:53 yes, I fail Aug 23 18:22:12 P = U * I and so on Aug 23 18:22:21 ShadowJK: NiMH for low-current would fail already Aug 23 18:22:31 unless the 350mA is bursty load Aug 23 18:22:55 nimh can supply plenty of amps though :) Aug 23 18:23:03 not NiMH of low capacity Aug 23 18:23:10 they're designed for low-drain applications Aug 23 18:23:22 high capacity NiMH are another story Aug 23 18:23:39 they survive short-circuit over low resistance even ;P Aug 23 18:23:54 Nimh designed for high currents are usually lower in capacity, and high capacity nimh are usually weaker at supplying amps... Aug 23 18:24:03 the other way around Aug 23 18:24:15 guess why high-capacity NiMH are used for flash lamps Aug 23 18:24:29 Let me smack you with some graphs Aug 23 18:24:32 sure Aug 23 18:24:47 let me smack you with Duracell's info Aug 23 18:25:41 weird, at some point modest stopped checking for email Aug 23 18:25:48 RST38h: crashed maybe? Aug 23 18:25:56 it's timestamp got corrupted? Aug 23 18:26:08 nope Aug 23 18:26:15 still there but not checking Aug 23 18:26:20 no idea Aug 23 18:26:42 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/SilverFoxCPF/AccuPowerAA2900atVariousRates.gif Aug 23 18:26:48 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/SilverFoxCPF/Titanium1800atVariousRates.gif Aug 23 18:26:59 * RST38h wonders if nokia will ever get mail app working right Aug 23 18:27:24 'cause the current situation is slowly moving from "annoying" into "bizarre" Aug 23 18:27:32 The titanium 1800mAh voltage at 15 Amps is better than the 2900mAh cell at 7 Amps... go figure :) Aug 23 18:27:35 ShadowJK: apples, oranges? Aug 23 18:27:43 has anyone tried that freezer trick with their n810? Aug 23 18:28:16 why? Aug 23 18:28:28 Apples and apples, titanium 2700mAh: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/SilverFoxCPF/TitaniumAA2700atVariousRates.gif Aug 23 18:29:06 intriguind Aug 23 18:29:15 they write something entirely different on packaging Aug 23 18:29:17 lies? Aug 23 18:29:32 You mean capacity? Yes, almost all manufacturers lie Aug 23 18:29:42 no, I mean "applications" of the battery Aug 23 18:30:01 where high-capacity is said to be designed for high current drain Aug 23 18:30:02 RST38h, yeah, I ran into the same thing with email. I thought I was just suddenly unpopular. :/ Aug 23 18:30:59 AStorm, well, it's entirely possible that their low-capacity cells were actually MEANT to be high capacity cells, but had quality problems during manufacturing, so they're kinda crap and get labeled as low capacity lower drain Aug 23 18:31:45 But 1-2Amp for any AA nimh is pretty low drain anyway, relatively Aug 23 18:31:45 possible, yes Aug 23 18:31:51 yes Aug 23 18:31:58 johnx: Is there a bug report or should we file one? Aug 23 18:32:13 RST38h, I really don't know Aug 23 18:32:46 I've been really busy IRL recently. Haven't done much with my tablet besides actually use it :) Aug 23 18:33:58 still, I need a bunch of good DC/DC converters, 1.2V/2.4V input, 5V output Aug 23 18:34:09 anything good you could recommend? Aug 23 18:34:21 well okay, energizer kinda generally fails: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/SilverFoxCPF/EnergizerAA2300variousRates.gif Aug 23 18:34:52 ShadowJK: lol, it broke ;) Aug 23 18:34:57 But energizer has incentive to keep their Nimhs crap so that people continue buy alkalines and lithiums :) Aug 23 18:36:27 I;m not sure if it's better to serially link the NiMH to get the 2.4V in, and get smaller capacity Aug 23 18:36:38 or link them parallel and face lower converter efficiency Aug 23 18:37:02 assuming the converter can handle the current Aug 23 18:37:05 go for serial Aug 23 18:37:47 though if you use serial, use a circuit that stops working at 1.6 ... 2.0V Aug 23 18:38:32 yes, that's not a problem :> Aug 23 18:38:42 That way it will stop when the voltage is somewhere between 0.8Volt and 1.0Volt per cell. NiMH hate getting discharged to death, and they especially hate reverse charging, which can happen if the capacities are mismatched and one cell gets empty before the other one does Aug 23 18:38:58 yes Aug 23 18:39:02 Old nicads on the other hand didn't mind getting drained dead :) Aug 23 18:39:16 they did mind a lot about charging when not empty though Aug 23 18:39:31 well... sort of :) Aug 23 18:39:58 The energy was still stored in there, it just came out at 1 volt... which made most devices think the batteries were dead :) Aug 23 18:40:01 ok, so I need a very good DC/DC and I;m too lazy to design one Aug 23 18:40:16 I'm hopeless with soldering Aug 23 18:40:31 I'm hopeless with bad tools ;> Aug 23 18:40:40 need a good soldering iron stand Aug 23 18:40:53 or a good pencil soldering iron Aug 23 18:41:46 I built a 5V supply with 7805 before, but then I just took some wires and connectors from a dead 486 motherboard, they seemed to fit the 7805 perfectly, and then I used screws to hold the wiring in place for the rest of the components ... Aug 23 18:42:07 I'd rather make a circuit board Aug 23 18:42:33 it's easy and space-efficient Aug 23 18:42:57 heck, if I could even manage to solder some wires onto the pins of the 7805 I'd be happy Aug 23 18:42:59 GeneralAntilles, did you have anything to do with my garage thingy getting approved this morning? Aug 23 18:43:00 :P Aug 23 18:43:13 7805 is a huge beast Aug 23 18:43:17 yes Aug 23 18:43:20 nowhere close to current TSSOP Aug 23 18:43:37 I'd love some BGA chip Aug 23 18:43:51 and a good infrared lamp Aug 23 18:44:35 hm, those converters you looked at, did any of them handle input > output voltage ? Aug 23 18:44:57 * moontiger goes off to figure out how to make a .deb... Aug 23 18:48:01 I'd want a 2Amp 3-4.2V -> 5V converter myself :> Aug 23 18:50:48 <_julian> hi Aug 23 18:50:49 3-4.2 to 5 is easy Aug 23 18:50:54 there are many such devices Aug 23 18:51:11 <_julian> does someone know if it is possible to disable the onscreen keyboard for specific widgets in qt/maemo? Aug 23 19:11:29 ~curse ext3 Aug 23 19:11:29 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, ext3 ! Aug 23 19:22:34 infobot's curses suck Aug 23 19:24:33 if im making a package do i have to go thru that scratchbox stuff? or can i just make a standard .deb file? Aug 23 19:26:00 GAN800: they are just getting old :) Aug 23 19:27:08 moontiger: you do not need scratchbox for creating debs, but a debian based host would be useful for it. Aug 23 19:27:31 i run a debian system on all my machines ... so i can just make a standard deb? :) Aug 23 19:29:51 moontiger: well if it's not arch dependend :) Aug 23 19:30:42 moontiger: or you prepare it for autobuilder and let the builder take care of it :) Aug 23 19:30:50 jott ... yes thnx ... its a python thingy so its pretty arch neutral Aug 23 19:31:09 autobuilder? Aug 23 19:31:24 the extras(-devel) thingie. Aug 23 19:31:39 there's that py2deb thing as well .. i think Aug 23 19:31:48 forgive my lack of knowledge about all this but i dont know what you mean :| Aug 23 19:31:53 yes Aug 23 19:32:09 ~extras Aug 23 19:32:10 somebody said extras was http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Aug 23 19:32:12 but i want to learn to make debs anyways as i want to package stuff for the desktop too Aug 23 19:33:58 well, there's loads of guides if you google debian package creation Aug 23 19:34:01 just keep in mind that if you build your deb on a different system than your target, dependencies may differ, especially when using automatically generated depends with ${....:Depends} Aug 23 19:34:13 Stskeeps: problem is that many suck :p Aug 23 19:35:03 jott: which is why i swear by dpkg-deb --build :P Aug 23 19:35:23 moontiger: maybe also take a look at the maemo reference manual, it covers many basics. Aug 23 19:36:20 thanks guys ... im new to the debian way ... ex-windows programmer ... i know ... ive been to support groups and shared ;) Aug 23 19:36:41 im going thru the deb building stuff and it seems fairly simple Aug 23 19:37:34 yeah, most of the time it's straight forward. it's just that there are quite a few different approaches that have grown over the time. Aug 23 19:37:36 its easy to use a meat grinder as well Aug 23 19:37:45 hahaha Aug 23 19:37:55 * lcuk gives moontiger half a thumbs up Aug 23 19:38:07 i want to build a deb and put it in extras-devel for now Aug 23 19:38:37 lcuk: just don't put your thumb in the grinder :P Aug 23 19:39:04 what you on about, my thumb was the only thing saved Aug 23 19:39:19 you shouldv seen the mess it made of my legs! Aug 23 19:39:25 lcuk ... the typing thumb Aug 23 19:40:20 hah could you atleast feed your family? :) Aug 23 19:40:48 :D omg http://www.glowgadgets.co.uk/glowing-lite-thumb-tip-magic-item-lights-up-red.ir?cName=clubbing-gadgets Aug 23 19:41:28 you want to be E.T ? Aug 23 19:41:33 lifetime ambition mate ? Aug 23 19:42:16 well i had aimed to have other things glowing like that, but things didnt turn out as planned Aug 23 19:42:24 lol Aug 23 19:42:26 bahaha Aug 23 19:42:35 * LinuxCode tries to not have his mind wander too much Aug 23 19:42:36 the video is really disturbing :p Aug 23 19:42:37 please elaborate Aug 23 19:42:53 * LinuxCode thinks toes Aug 23 19:43:06 * jott thinks spam Aug 23 19:43:53 jott, thats more disturbing than my original train of thought Aug 23 19:44:39 I can deal with spam.... Aug 23 19:44:51 not sure I can deal with your other thought Aug 23 19:44:55 lol Aug 23 20:12:00 lcuk: i think i ll give up for the picture stuff.. pixbuf_new_from_* would require pygtk compiled with numeric support. Aug 23 20:12:28 and i miserably fail trying to transform the bitmap manually with the image module. Aug 23 20:12:59 workaround=save the file in a thread on the disk, and read it from the pygtk gui thread...ugly :-( Aug 23 20:13:41 what is the data you are trying to visualise Aug 23 20:13:55 and why couldnt you just draw onto a pixmap directly? Aug 23 20:14:21 a cairo picturr representing the are the gps is on , using openstreetmap data Aug 23 20:15:02 the irony is..it suppose to be for a "blind" application anyway (audio routing for bike mainly) :) Aug 23 20:16:04 http://www.zetcode.com/tutorials/cairographicstutorial/cairobackends/ Aug 23 20:16:12 lcuk:computing the image will takes some time, i just want one every once in a while Aug 23 20:16:16 doesnt that show using cairo drawing directly onto a gtk window? Aug 23 20:16:22 and i do not want the rest of the gui to be frozen while i compute it Aug 23 20:17:08 how long does it take? Aug 23 20:17:15 lcuk: i have no problem drawingf directly on the area if i compute things from the pygtk gui thread. Aug 23 20:17:22 It depends the number of node. Aug 23 20:17:31 average Aug 23 20:17:40 couple of seconds on the tbale i guess Aug 23 20:18:06 are we talking seconds per frame, or still <0.2s kind of slow? Aug 23 20:18:34 i think drawing one frame will take more than a second Aug 23 20:18:52 arghh, is there any reasonable speedups you could attempt - even if you get it working on an offscreen bitmap, that kind of refresh time isnt good Aug 23 20:19:55 i do not know where i could speed up things. I already try to load as few nodes as possible. Aug 23 20:20:14 btw https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/src/?root=sayhoo Aug 23 20:20:15 during a single frame, do you have any idea how long each section takes? ie time to lookup data 0.4s, time to sort nodes 0.2s, time to clip and render 0.5 Aug 23 20:20:49 is this the project itself? Aug 23 20:21:01 no, i do not do that. i just know drawing the frame is fast compared to fetching the data in the db and computing the route :-) Aug 23 20:21:06 yes it is Aug 23 20:22:03 lookup and rendering should be seperate to the route system? Aug 23 20:22:27 ie you dont have to do routing just the render do you Aug 23 20:22:42 the idea is to start to draw stuff only once i have a route Aug 23 20:22:54 no point rendering stuff if i do not know where to go Aug 23 20:23:35 the route is extremely long, but, i think i ll try to hasv some "preferred" route stored, and only compute route to one of the nearest node in a route i already have computed Aug 23 20:27:24 melmoth, if you draw on a gtk widget with cairo and the widget was hidden when you started, if you made it visible after you have finished will it contain all the stuff you drew with cairo? Aug 23 20:28:00 i do not know. Aug 23 20:28:11 i never used drawing area before today :) Aug 23 20:29:42 where have you had experience with maps? or is all of it new? Aug 23 20:29:45 lcuk: but the main wast of time is not that much the drawinfg itself, it s the feeding of nodes in the database, (wich needs to have at least the area from start to destination to compute route). Aug 23 20:30:20 as this takes a long time, and as i need this to dra the litte local map, i decided to do every stuff related to map in a separate obkect Aug 23 20:30:53 the gui is just , displaying stuff already made, and taking user events. Aug 23 20:31:16 melmoth, yes route scanning is like lightening, it expands from both ends to adjacent nodes until it meets its counterpart Aug 23 20:31:25 lcuk: i got inspired by http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Pyrender Aug 23 20:31:36 and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/PyrouteLib Aug 23 20:31:46 if you cannot get the entire node tree into memory then a very efficient algo must be found Aug 23 20:32:44 i assume there is a route in the circle with diameter == start to destination+ a given buffer around Aug 23 20:32:54 the the algo is A* Aug 23 20:33:08 works ok as long as there are no "island" Aug 23 20:35:51 melmoth, technically you just restrict it to know boundaries, it could span the earth looking for a route as long as the database/connection table contains links Aug 23 20:36:03 lcuk: I got the n810 to work Aug 23 20:36:09 kkrusty, how? Aug 23 20:36:32 10 minutes in the freezer and then firmware update Aug 23 20:36:47 melmoth, thats how google etc manage to have random routes which send you around multiple countries to get to another local dest Aug 23 20:37:01 kkrusty, :S wouldnt attempt somethin like that myself i dont think Aug 23 20:37:56 lcuk: well yes the freezer part wasnt necessary but it seemed to work for some people: http://blog.homac.de/?p=58 Aug 23 20:38:17 I just needed it to run for one time to get it updated Aug 23 20:38:26 N810 was affected by the poweron issue Aug 23 20:38:33 s/was/wasn't/ Aug 23 20:38:33 GAN800 meant: N810 wasn't affected by the poweron issue Aug 23 20:38:59 Only the N800 needed the update. Aug 23 20:40:03 I had the n810 packed but I thought that I'd give the freezer tip a go since I didnt want to have it sent to the seller only for them to find it to work Aug 23 20:40:44 moontiger, no, not a thing. Aug 23 20:41:13 I'll obviously keep an eye on this for as long as its return policy is valid Aug 23 20:41:40 lcuk (and anyone who do pygame stuff): the previous week , i was thinking of using pygame instead of pygtk...And i hit a funny bug that made me change my mind. Aug 23 20:41:43 http://www.pjblog.net/index.php?2006/06/23/144-using-pycairo-with-pygame-surface Aug 23 20:42:09 when rendering this in pygame, i see a rose circle.and it should be gray Aug 23 20:43:07 make a minimal test case, report it as a bug? Aug 23 20:44:03 this is already a miminal test case :) I wonder _where_ the bug may be , and so where to report it. Aug 23 20:44:33 pygame ? Aug 23 20:45:44 melmoth ... ur problem is optimizing the route search yes? Aug 23 20:47:04 moontiger: no, i m not into routing problems yet. my current issue is being able to prepare a cairo image in a separate thread than the one the gui is running on Aug 23 20:47:49 you cant pass the drawing surface into the thread? Aug 23 20:48:22 the surface depends from the window it s on. Aug 23 20:48:37 and i do not think passing it in another thread that would change its buffer is a good idea. Aug 23 20:48:48 well right but you cant pass a structure to the drawing thread that describes the surface it has to work with? Aug 23 20:49:17 shouldnt the worker thread simply be preparing vecotrs Aug 23 20:49:26 that s what i would like to be able to do ,like a numeric array (but maemo pygtk is not compiled to support it) or an array.array Aug 23 20:49:26 the render thread should just draw what its got available Aug 23 20:49:45 hmmm Aug 23 20:49:56 simply give it a list of (sx,sy,ex,ey,thick,color) Aug 23 20:49:59 ideally you would want a fifo render pipeline that gets fed from the prep thread Aug 23 20:50:13 lifo that is Aug 23 20:50:15 doh Aug 23 20:50:36 i like the idea of sendinf a list of vector, or a description of the image. Aug 23 20:50:58 can you not set up a shared memory buffer Aug 23 20:51:08 moontiger: i did try. Aug 23 20:51:14 that the prep thread writes to and the render thread / app reads from Aug 23 20:51:28 like a dma buffer Aug 23 20:51:29 i was 1)not able to use it on the draw area itself (becuase of lack of skills) Aug 23 20:51:36 i even do it another way, in one of the things in my project, ive got 900 little sketch files to load and display - now i cannot do this all in a reasonable time, it takes about 20 seconds to load - but each frame i just load a couple Aug 23 20:51:52 2) when , in the gui thread i used this buffer to write a file, i realised i had it wrong anyway: opposite and some mask problem Aug 23 20:52:21 i try to copy it in a numeric array to rechangeh it the way i want, without success. Aug 23 20:52:34 so the gui is where the user selects to end points and off you go yes? Aug 23 20:52:48 to = two Aug 23 20:53:43 the user only select 1 end point in a simple gtktreeview: it s alist of available "station", where you can take and put back the rent a bike thingy. Aug 23 20:53:56 ahhhhhhhhhh u live in paris yes? Aug 23 20:53:58 :) Aug 23 20:54:03 yep :) Aug 23 20:54:38 http://sd-2175.dedibox.fr/pic/000.png Aug 23 20:54:44 station are not shown there Aug 23 20:55:52 hmmmmm i havent played with threads in python much but cant they see each others shared memory? Aug 23 20:56:08 or at least see the apps shared memory? Aug 23 20:56:12 they can Aug 23 20:56:21 but it means they take the global lock Aug 23 20:56:33 the Global Interpreter Lock, or GIL Aug 23 20:56:39 so you could set up a route planning thread ... a rendering thread and have them run async to the main gui Aug 23 20:56:44 ahhhhhhhhhhh Aug 23 20:56:48 every bunch of bytecode lines Aug 23 20:57:04 wow thats a brilliant design decision ... not Aug 23 20:57:06 or some time Aug 23 20:57:09 that s what i m planning to do. Right now there is a main thread, one for the gui, and one for the mapping thingy Aug 23 20:57:12 moontiger: it is easier to do Aug 23 20:57:30 only concerns uninterpreted bytecode or variable access really Aug 23 20:57:35 so Python threads are crummy Aug 23 20:57:46 ah ok ... im used to c/c++ threading Aug 23 20:58:44 AStorm, does that mean threading in python is a bit not worth it then? Aug 23 20:59:02 it is worth it, if you're waiting for something Aug 23 20:59:06 or doing IO Aug 23 20:59:14 not if you want parallel computation Aug 23 20:59:25 ok that answrs my q ... thnx Aug 23 21:00:41 actually, you could have a real thread with stackless python I think Aug 23 21:01:32 sounds like its easier to use c/c++ frankly Aug 23 21:01:37 The new deblet installer is nice. Aug 23 21:01:47 Gracana: thanks Aug 23 21:01:58 whats the deblet installer? Aug 23 21:02:03 http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet Aug 23 21:02:46 the only thing GIL means on a single-cpu device like the tablets is that the code runs shitload faster Aug 23 21:04:06 Gracana: you on Diablo or Chinook? Aug 23 21:05:19 Diablo, Stskeeps. Aug 23 21:05:52 Gracana: and you used the .install and it worked? Aug 23 21:06:11 Yup. Without a hitch. Aug 23 21:06:16 good Aug 23 21:07:01 * Stskeeps is trying hard to fix the worst bug in deblet and it's driving him nuts. Aug 23 21:08:25 Stskeeps: username for the tablet default user Aug 23 21:08:35 not really sure what it's asking... Aug 23 21:08:54 basically to run X sessions, we dont want to run as root, write in your intended user login :) Aug 23 21:08:58 Stskeeps, do you mean i can have xfce on my n810? Aug 23 21:09:21 so 'david' rather than 'user' (since 'user' is the default tablet user....) Aug 23 21:09:24 yeah Aug 23 21:09:33 i should really edit that and explain more i guess Aug 23 21:09:35 moontiger: some have installed gnome :> Aug 23 21:09:39 ummmmmm do i get a boot menu to choose what env to start in? Aug 23 21:09:41 that's why I asked :) Aug 23 21:09:46 moontiger: that's possible with both Easy Debian and Deblet - deblet is a seperate OS, and yes, boot menu Aug 23 21:09:56 it's debian for the tablets, except we can't call it debian :P Aug 23 21:09:58 holy crap ... sign me up :) Aug 23 21:10:31 * qwerty12_N800 sets up mpd on his tablet again. Aug 23 21:10:45 (you know I'd like to choose the UID to match my LAN ... but...) Aug 23 21:11:43 (and what's with all the LC_ALL errors) Aug 23 21:11:56 Id never use that Aug 23 21:11:58 eh. if you ran through installer, there shouldn't be any LC_ALL errors Aug 23 21:12:15 um - I did and there are... Aug 23 21:12:21 deblet...it says..it might steal my wife or cause doomsday! Aug 23 21:12:29 maybe I missed something... Aug 23 21:12:33 LinuxCode: better than "no warranty" Aug 23 21:12:37 lol Aug 23 21:12:43 ;-D Aug 23 21:13:10 lbt: pastebin them for me? Aug 23 21:13:14 just one of them Aug 23 21:13:42 do you know where the log is? Aug 23 21:14:08 what is the xfce perfromance like? Aug 23 21:14:09 we don't keep a log at that point sadly - was there lc_all during debootstrap? if so, /var/log/debootstrap i think Aug 23 21:14:34 moontiger: quite decent Aug 23 21:14:56 people even had snappiness in gnome Aug 23 21:15:38 so i just follow that guide and get a choice of xfce or maemo essentially? Aug 23 21:16:35 moontiger: well, i'll start out by the warranty clause about doomsday, since it's still work in progress :) but what the standard environment boots into is a mix of xfce and matchbox wm - the boot menu allows you to either boot into Deblet or to Internal flash (Maemo) Aug 23 21:16:45 can't pastebin but ::: perl warning: please check that your locale settings: LANGUAGE (unset) \n LC_ALL = (unset).... \n...\n LANG = "en_GB"\n are supported and installed on your system Aug 23 21:16:54 that old chestnut Aug 23 21:17:00 lbt: okay, that's odd Aug 23 21:17:15 are you an en_GB? Aug 23 21:17:28 wow that sounds pretty awesome ... im impressed :) Aug 23 21:17:54 lbt: think so.. or da_DK or something. but in my installer launcher script, i do export LC_ALL="C" Aug 23 21:19:00 arh Aug 23 21:19:19 run-standalone.sh messes with the LC_MESSAGES maybe Aug 23 21:19:48 just flashed bootmenu... Aug 23 21:21:15 booting... Aug 23 21:21:39 there's a scottie dog in the top left corner Aug 23 21:21:40 moontiger: the Debian section in Alternatives on internettablettalk.com/forums has a lot of information on various initiatives if you want to read more Aug 23 21:21:55 mm. sign of doomsday? :P Aug 23 21:22:08 cool ... that website hurts my eyes tho :/ Aug 23 21:22:17 moontiger: select a different theme Aug 23 21:22:19 i like mobile ii Aug 23 21:22:20 :P Aug 23 21:22:47 (it's in the bottom) Aug 23 21:22:53 hi there Aug 23 21:24:34 Stskeeps: OK- it's up and happy - cool :) Now. how do I configure the wifi? Aug 23 21:24:42 lbt: top right corner icon Aug 23 21:24:50 it's nm-applet up there Aug 23 21:25:33 it looked like a crossed out mouse :) Aug 23 21:25:58 prolly is better on a bigger screen Aug 23 21:26:04 nb - I'd add a few hints like that to the http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet page Aug 23 21:26:30 yeah.. i primarily focus on getting things developed and write documentation when i need a break Aug 23 21:27:36 add me to the wiki editors if you like Aug 23 21:31:16 k, sec Aug 23 21:35:43 when im making a deb do i have to use a version number with "-1" at the end for maemo? Aug 23 21:36:27 think that's pretty standard style for debs Aug 23 21:36:48 it says "you wont want that" in the standard deb howto tho so im puzzled Aug 23 21:42:38 moontiger: there was some discussion in -dev recently Aug 23 21:43:10 if this is a native app that you're building then no need for anything 'maemo-ish' Aug 23 21:43:46 if it's an 'upstream' app (eg ddd) and you build it and don't need to make any changes then just use their version Aug 23 21:44:16 if it's an upstream and you need to modify it (eg hildonise) then you add -maemo1 to the upstream version Aug 23 21:44:22 (that's my understanding) Aug 23 21:46:51 Stskeeps: is there a package manager? or just use aptitude? Aug 23 21:47:23 lbt: yeah, or install synaptic or whatever.. i focus mostly on the system issues Aug 23 21:47:30 and hope for others to build better environments Aug 23 21:48:14 I'm just adding some getting going suggestions - so checking what's there etc... Aug 23 21:48:37 aptitude caused a reboot :( Aug 23 21:49:00 do I get to help with the fsck problem now Aug 23 21:49:20 is there any numpy port for maemo or am I stuck with Numeric? Aug 23 21:49:50 sigh, i'll build a newer mpd tomorrow. Austin Che's build is .2 out of date and there have been a crapload of bug fixes, mpd is lagging like hell here... Aug 23 21:49:54 mmm - "give root passwd for maintenance..." not easy on an N800... Aug 23 21:49:58 yeah Aug 23 21:50:20 i usually just either 1) boot into maemo, mount it, do something on the filesystem, sync, unmount cleanly Aug 23 21:50:21 Stskeeps: is that a gksudo prompt? Aug 23 21:50:27 so, I need to get my bluetooth keyboard working inside the initfs Aug 23 21:50:37 qwerty12_N800: no, console Aug 23 21:50:56 2) or plug in usbnet, telnet in, and mount -o remount,rw , do something, and run reboot Aug 23 21:51:43 i'm still trying to track down what causes it because the filesystem is obviously read-only and yet it refuses to open the block device read-write for fsck Aug 23 21:52:03 thnx Aug 23 21:53:00 lbt: some also claim setting pass = 0 in fstab will get rid of the problem Aug 23 21:53:27 I notice it says fsck is trying to open /lib/init/rw/rootdev Aug 23 21:53:32 yeah, that's fine Aug 23 21:53:59 ok - is this battery out time BTW? Aug 23 21:54:08 hm? Aug 23 21:54:16 it's something checkroot does if /dev/root != something, - it sets it correctly to the device node of the mmc partition Aug 23 21:54:26 N800 - console - root passwd Aug 23 21:54:39 oh Aug 23 21:54:39 yes Aug 23 21:54:51 hence my comment about the fact i've popped my battery way too much Aug 23 21:55:13 I think a kernel hack is needed - it registers battery open as an event Aug 23 21:55:28 batcover off, yeah Aug 23 21:55:48 forcing reboot on batcover off, eh? :P Aug 23 21:55:58 and opening the external flash Aug 23 21:56:00 so yes Aug 23 21:56:14 i would rather fix the problem than resorting to that :> Aug 23 21:56:15 or make that ctrl-alt-sysreq equiv Aug 23 21:56:33 I have a feeling it would be useful in other circumstances ;) Aug 23 21:56:40 probably Aug 23 21:57:02 * Stskeeps reboots into his hopefully more fixed deblet.. Aug 23 21:57:03 good - tell no-one - I've been looking for a kernel project for ages Aug 23 21:57:11 you remove that from the kernel, ke-recv will mess up Aug 23 21:57:17 Wow. N810 to digicam, direct usb cable, it really works. I am excited Aug 23 21:57:42 * GeneralAntilles browses through the Tablet School forums and shakes his head. Aug 23 21:57:43 qwerty12_N800: ? Aug 23 21:57:44 Cam card mounted automatically Aug 23 21:57:58 It's like the Ubuntu forums . . . nobody is actually getting help. Aug 23 21:58:31 * Stskeeps swears loudly Aug 23 21:58:56 okay, so it wasn't me copying the initfs dev files that causes it Aug 23 21:59:18 * Stskeeps pops battery Aug 23 22:01:03 next theory - udev loading the firmware for wlan for some odd reason causes the filesystem block device to become unfsckable.. Aug 23 22:08:39 .. and it's not that Aug 23 22:09:15 Khertgan_agian you here Aug 23 22:13:36 who here uses their nokia more than a real computer.... outside of work i mean Aug 23 22:14:07 Damn near Aug 23 22:14:14 Especially when I'm not around my real computer. Aug 23 22:16:14 trev0r, i use mine as a compile workhorse and testbed for my app - its eather compiling or running my code most of the times im around Aug 23 22:18:41 'night all Aug 23 22:18:55 gnite lbt Aug 23 22:20:02 trying to read python code @ 11:19 PM ain't working for me >.> Aug 23 22:20:04 GeneralAntilles, thank you for the invite thingy :) Aug 23 22:20:13 night lbt Aug 23 22:24:18 I might buy an iphone. :/ Aug 23 22:24:21 Sadface. Aug 23 22:24:28 er Aug 23 22:24:31 an ipod touch Aug 23 22:24:44 why Aug 23 22:24:49 * Gracana does not have the money to spend on an iphone data plan Aug 23 22:25:03 capacitive touchscreen, 3D acceleration, and accelerometers. Aug 23 22:25:23 why not, they are graphically interesting, however you lose being able to do precision work due to stylus infriendly screen Aug 23 22:25:32 It has some stupid limitations (I really like the openness of the NITs), but it should be a lot of fun. Aug 23 22:26:24 their screens are only a lower resolution Aug 23 22:26:36 and you cannot use a stylus.. Aug 23 22:26:40 Yeah, quite a bit lower resolution. Aug 23 22:26:41 normal one Aug 23 22:26:46 lcuk, I'd rather not use a stylus anyway. Aug 23 22:26:52 but they have nice shiney things to make up for it Aug 23 22:26:55 I am quite drawn to the iphone UI. Aug 23 22:26:59 haha, indeed Aug 23 22:27:00 Gracana, for some things i agree Aug 23 22:27:25 but not for everything, i got the 810 because i wanted a keyboard that didnt take up real eastate Aug 23 22:27:27 but single tasking Aug 23 22:27:36 iphone that is Aug 23 22:27:43 on the itouch things, you lose both ways, not really improved res and having to give up space Aug 23 22:27:50 I should add that I don't necessarily think it's a batter platform.. I'm just a gadget freak and I like to try everything out. Aug 23 22:28:14 i just really dislike steve jobs and the cult of the cool-aid Aug 23 22:28:20 lcuk, I have an N800. I really wish I had an N810, that keyboard would be handy. Aug 23 22:28:20 i'm sure surfing is easier on the tablet Aug 23 22:28:30 moontiger, no kidding. :| Aug 23 22:28:52 trev0r, no way - have you seen the candy when browsing on iphone Aug 23 22:29:03 the NIT is like swimming in treacle Aug 23 22:29:18 lcuk, if they would give us the 3d driver stuff we could have all that Aug 23 22:29:21 So far I haven't found any device this small that I like web surfing on. Aug 23 22:29:32 moontiger, nobody agrees with you more than myself :) Aug 23 22:29:35 yeah but since the screen is low res you have to zoom in more Aug 23 22:29:40 the iphone is a nice web browser device for sure Aug 23 22:30:09 i would assume Aug 23 22:30:43 Now, if someone released an open iphone-like hardware with a hardware keyboard and an 800x480 screen, I would just about die with glee. Aug 23 22:31:04 is there anyway to speed Simple up to approach Claws like speed, or make the led light, and/or visual biff open Claws upon finger/stylus input - I realize there are a few questions in one here but any links, or work in progress or affirmations would be nice. I am just a user, and not such a great researcher. Thank you for reading. Aug 23 22:31:11 theres already more powerful MIDs around Aug 23 22:31:15 Also I would go bankrupt, because it would probably cost $800 or something ridiculous *eyes the openmoko* Aug 23 22:31:43 I am using Diablo/os2008 on an n800 Aug 23 22:32:00 lcuk, anything that approaches or exceeds the iphone in the 200-300 dollar price range? Aug 23 22:32:08 lcuk, I'm open to suggestions Aug 23 22:32:10 lcuk, where is the correct place to put icons that my app uses? Aug 23 22:32:18 lcuk is popular ;) Aug 23 22:32:23 heh moontiger im not the person to ask Aug 23 22:32:40 it seems like there are a million places people use Aug 23 22:32:41 the n810 Aug 23 22:32:57 Gracana, i like my nokia and it will go fast, i think we cant be waiting too much longer for new generation hardware from nokia Aug 23 22:33:04 moontiger, maybe /usr/share/pixmaps Aug 23 22:33:28 and i assume they wont just end the line and price themselves out of the market so i would expect the new to slot in place Aug 23 22:33:34 /usr/share/pixmaps/ seems to be used by others Aug 23 22:33:55 moontiger, where will i store the hand drawn sketches from users? Aug 23 22:33:56 ah, you beat me to it. Yes, it does seem to be the right choice. Aug 23 22:34:11 how can i make the location multi user (for when i expand) Aug 23 22:34:41 lcuk, i know its up to me but im trying to get the right way to do things in debian as opposed to the windows way where i would create a folder in the home directory and store them there Aug 23 22:35:38 moontiger, linux folder tree makes no sense to me either ;) Aug 23 22:36:05 heh its hilarious ... on windows im a pretty good programmer ... here im like a noob Aug 23 22:36:23 look over my history, ive spent 9 months bein a total n00b :) Aug 23 22:36:30 :) Aug 23 22:36:48 man hier ought to be a good place to start Aug 23 22:36:57 it is surprising that Claws is not seemingly being worked on to replace Simple, no disrespect to the developers of Simple, but for IMAP Claws far and away faster that it. Aug 23 22:36:58 That will give you some insight as to how things are laid out Aug 23 22:37:00 but i think im over the worst of it all Aug 23 22:37:48 awww my little nokia is tired: 23:36:51 up 13:22, load average: 0.87, 0.86, 0.69 Aug 23 22:39:25 excuse me s/Simple/Modest/g a bit out of it, but as no one is responding it doesn't appear to make much difference. Aug 23 22:40:19 yigal, i dont use any mail client on my nokia Aug 23 22:40:27 so i wouldnt know how they would work Aug 23 22:41:00 incidentally, does thunderbird work? whilst its been designed for a desktop, would it give a clue as to relative performance Aug 23 22:44:21 don't think i can beat lcuk's uptime :> : http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenshot00.png Aug 23 22:44:42 :D Aug 23 22:44:49 how does it get over 1? Aug 23 22:45:09 and i reflashed this morning :P Aug 23 22:45:35 poweruser Aug 23 22:45:41 now i'm 2 :p Aug 23 22:45:46 cool :) Aug 23 22:45:56 on 2 rather Aug 23 22:46:02 moontiger, I didn't have a thing to do with the invite. Aug 23 22:46:49 GeneralAntilles, oh wow then that was cool and fast :) Aug 23 22:47:12 yigal, what is Simple? Aug 23 22:47:13 lcuk, have you ever browsed with an iPhone? Aug 23 22:47:51 yigal, just read further ... sorry Aug 23 22:47:52 ive panned around a bit and had a quick play in the apple store Aug 23 22:48:05 lcuk, not enough Aug 23 22:48:12 It's really pretty slow compared to the tablets Aug 23 22:48:19 especially with heavier stuff Aug 23 22:48:23 yigal, i think modest is useless right now and thats a shame Aug 23 22:48:27 sorry, i shall go out and buy one to do quantitive quality testing Aug 23 22:48:28 itT absolutely destroys the iPhone. Aug 23 22:48:47 It's got a lot of slick that tries to cover up the slow Aug 23 22:48:53 NIT doesnt mean nokia internet tablet, it means Ninja in training Aug 23 22:48:56 but isn't particularly succesful. Aug 23 22:49:28 have you seen the hologram hack? Aug 23 22:49:30 moontiger, file bugs for the stuff that hasn't been reported, vote on the stuff that has been. Aug 23 22:50:06 http://thenextweb.org/2008/08/22/see-that-little-creature-its-a-iphone-holographic-illusion/ Aug 23 22:51:54 GeneralAntilles, been there done that ... gave up and use claws Aug 23 22:52:49 moontiger: it has so much potential, with its integration into the OS, but it appears to be unable to use inline images, and while I'm a mutt user on a desktop/laptop the fact that it is so slow to open new emails is for me what sinks it as a reasonably usable application. But I may not understand the full picture. Aug 23 22:57:00 * Stskeeps scratches his head over it seemingily being udev that messes up everything Aug 23 23:09:57 lcuk, I saw that today.. Really cute idea. Aug 23 23:17:14 look, if McCain wants to bomb russia, i say we drop HIM on moscow Aug 23 23:20:06 pupnik, loool Aug 23 23:20:20 drop him on London Aug 23 23:20:40 I want to see the spectacle how a 70 year old old fat fuck screams when he falls out of a plane Aug 23 23:21:02 me too Aug 23 23:21:11 i'll help pay for the roof too Aug 23 23:21:15 lol Aug 23 23:21:22 drop him on the olympics site Aug 23 23:21:28 theres plenty of room Aug 23 23:21:47 the guy might start a nuclear war i think... not sure Aug 23 23:21:51 i'd rather not find out Aug 23 23:21:56 sorry #maemo :( Aug 23 23:22:20 obama is scum of course Aug 23 23:22:34 just less likely to fly off the handle and press the big red button Aug 23 23:23:28 yigal, Modest is only about 8 months old. Aug 23 23:23:35 and the economy is FUCKED regardless Aug 23 23:23:44 cause we're all slaves of fractional reserve banking Aug 23 23:23:54 ok selfboot Aug 23 23:25:12 pupnik is funny Aug 23 23:29:54 what does "incompatible application package" mean when i try to install my .deb file thru application manager? Aug 23 23:32:09 A variety of things Aug 23 23:32:22 What's the Section: ? Aug 23 23:32:39 GeneralAntilles: This is good to hear, I hope in the future it matures into a more usable mail client, as I assume do many maemo users. Aug 23 23:33:00 yigal, it's certainly not stagnant Aug 23 23:33:08 and most people are overly pessimistic and pissy about it. Aug 23 23:33:17 It was pushed too early to "final" status, I agree Aug 23 23:33:20 moontiger, look in your sources and disable any none standard repos Aug 23 23:33:25 they usually conflict Aug 23 23:33:36 They sort of said "it'll be in Diablo" and it really wasn't quite ready at that point. Aug 23 23:33:48 any of you guys noticed your devices being a bit sluggish lately ? Aug 23 23:33:52 lcuk, "incompatible" typical has to do with the section Aug 23 23:33:55 wiht the latest flash image Aug 23 23:33:57 If it's not in User/ Aug 23 23:34:13 the cpu load shows nothing much but it still seems to be unresponsive at times Aug 23 23:34:15 hmmmmmmmmm Aug 23 23:34:21 gen, whenever i see that removing any new temp repos solves it.. Aug 23 23:34:23 i'll check that thnx Aug 23 23:34:41 specially the side panel bar on the left in hildon Aug 23 23:34:45 im building it on my desktop system using the debian packaging tools Aug 23 23:34:46 LinuxCode, corrupt internal card with virtual memory enabled? Aug 23 23:34:51 RSS applet enabled? Aug 23 23:34:56 hmmm Aug 23 23:35:08 rss is running but I disabled the autoscroll non-sense Aug 23 23:35:18 GeneralAntilles, section in the control file says "user/office" Aug 23 23:35:19 thats bastard battery rapist Aug 23 23:35:22 hehe Aug 23 23:35:27 virtual memory could be Aug 23 23:35:32 * LinuxCode disables Aug 23 23:36:07 It's RSS Aug 23 23:36:16 The applet screws everything up Aug 23 23:36:24 moontiger, check your sources list, then. Aug 23 23:36:33 * GeneralAntilles is so glad that FBReader is finally in Extras. Aug 23 23:37:02 GeneralAntilles, im not sure what you mean? my desktop system sources? how does that affect anything? Aug 23 23:37:03 GeneralAntilles: This is very good to know. As I wrote earlier the fact that modest is so nicely integrated into maemo is a good thing iff Modest becomes a good mail client and from what you have said there is a good chance that in the near future this indeed will happen. So no pessimism for me, but a hope that it will move quickly to a more mature state. Aug 23 23:37:11 hmmm Aug 23 23:37:14 moontiger, no, the catalog on the device. Aug 23 23:37:17 moontiger, no, on the tablet Aug 23 23:37:34 yigal, you can get to most of the devs on #tinymail. Aug 23 23:37:35 might be gpe Aug 23 23:37:42 ummmmm ok ... im completely confused ... what would be causing that?? Aug 23 23:38:27 i will do some playing around Aug 23 23:38:35 see if I can locallize it the next days Aug 23 23:38:42 i have to take some repos out of my package list to install my deb? Aug 23 23:38:51 moontiger, if your package asks for dependencies which are different to whats already on the device it has to go looking for them Aug 23 23:39:10 i have the app running on my tablet already and i removed the files to test the deb Aug 23 23:39:19 so all the files it needs are there Aug 23 23:39:57 * GeneralAntilles wishes he could remember all the things that can throw that error. Aug 23 23:40:03 but the installer doesnt and has to recursively check all your dependencies Aug 23 23:40:05 I'm blanking at the moment, though. :\ Aug 23 23:40:33 lucuso what do i have to do? Aug 23 23:40:38 disable repos? Aug 23 23:40:46 lcuk i mean Aug 23 23:40:58 yer - if it doesnt work you can just reenable them Aug 23 23:41:18 its just an idea which seems to work for me, and besides having a clean repo list makes life simpler Aug 23 23:41:19 lcuk, you mean randomly disable repos? thats completely stupid Aug 23 23:41:44 no just those which you got just for single apps or unknown ones added with .install files etc Aug 23 23:42:00 GeneralAntilles: Thank you, everyday getting closer to my n800 is a great experience with this channel, the wiki, forums, and blogs etc.. So many people interested in this project it's just great. Aug 23 23:42:05 hmmmmm ok i'll try thnx ... but this makes no sense to me at all Aug 23 23:42:07 stick with nokia default stuff Aug 23 23:42:33 does this mean anyone with that repo cant install my app? Aug 23 23:42:57 this means we dont yet know whether it is a repo problem at all Aug 23 23:43:03 ok Aug 23 23:47:00 ok so thats not it Aug 23 23:47:18 incompatible application package is all i get Aug 23 23:49:06 what does it say if you try installing from console? Aug 23 23:50:13 let me try that Aug 23 23:51:16 package architecture "any" does not match yada yada Aug 23 23:52:09 its python ... does it have to say "armel" Aug 23 23:52:37 isn't it "all"? Aug 23 23:52:38 not any Aug 23 23:52:56 it said either was ok doh! Aug 23 23:53:04 * moontiger goes back to the deb factory Aug 23 23:53:05 never trust anything said on the internet Aug 23 23:53:09 hahaha Aug 23 23:55:14 "All" doesnt work either Aug 23 23:55:34 * moontiger mutters and curses Aug 23 23:55:59 lowercase? Aug 24 00:00:12 i had to say "armel" for it to be happy Aug 24 00:00:25 now its telling me "python-sqlite" isnt installed Aug 24 00:00:30 but it is Aug 24 00:00:42 isn'it python2.5-sqlite ? Aug 24 00:00:49 isn't it* Aug 24 00:01:05 nn ladies and gents Aug 24 00:01:13 there are no files on the tablet matching that kind of name Aug 24 00:02:13 moontiger: lowercase 'all' didn't do the trick? that's fucked Aug 24 00:02:29 Stskeeps, yup ... really annoying Aug 24 00:02:44 bef0rd, "import sqlite3" works Aug 24 00:02:56 depends on "python-sqlite" doesnt Aug 24 00:03:35 that's weird, i've just checked with apt-cache policy python-sqlite Aug 24 00:10:13 I think that sqlite3 comes from python2.5-runtime, but I might be wrong, import sqlite3 print sqlite3.__file__ prints the path of a zip file Aug 24 00:10:41 Is it possible to get the microb browser urlbar to be at the top of the screen? Aug 24 00:11:09 depends on libsqlite0 doh! Aug 24 00:11:58 do i have to the docs say not to mention depends that arent "first level" depends Aug 24 00:12:30 thnx bef0rd Aug 24 00:13:19 its in the python2.5 zip Aug 24 00:13:30 does that mean i dont actually have to "depend" on it ? Aug 24 00:13:32 what's the dpkg command to know if a file comes from a package? Aug 24 00:13:46 Gracana, not that I know of. Aug 24 00:16:39 dpkg --serach python25.zip Aug 24 00:16:44 it comes from python2.5 Aug 24 00:19:00 s/serach/search/ Aug 24 00:19:45 bef0rd, you dont have to explicitly mention it Aug 24 00:19:47 :) Aug 24 00:19:51 it works :) Aug 24 00:19:58 thnx for the help Aug 24 00:20:24 * moontiger does a little dance Aug 24 00:20:37 heh, I was trying to figure it out for me too :P Aug 24 00:20:51 i can send you the control file stuff if you like :) Aug 24 00:22:20 now to figure out how to get it up to the repo Aug 24 00:23:46 whats a "changes" file? i dont have one of those? Aug 24 00:27:35 lol, Reggie finally killed that useless Modest thread. Aug 24 00:27:45 Let's hope he decides to open another and gets himself banned. Aug 24 00:39:29 GeneralAntilles, it says i need a ".changes" file with my .deb package ... what is that? Aug 24 00:42:39 moontiger: it's a specially formatted stating changes done to the package in which version Aug 24 00:43:03 ok so i need one of those too *sigh* ... i'll google it ... thnx :) Aug 24 00:45:19 moontiger, have you tried Khertan's py2deb? Aug 24 00:45:37 well i want to know how to do this myself properly :) Aug 24 00:46:22 look at how his script does it too maybe? Aug 24 01:04:10 jeeeeeeez why cant these people write docs that actually you know *help* someone do something *sighs* Aug 24 01:12:05 can i just make a changes file by hand? Aug 24 01:20:50 GeneralAntilles, is the ".changes" file the same thing as the "changelog" file ? Aug 24 01:21:21 changelog should be program changes, .changes should be packaging changes. iirc, anyway. Aug 24 01:36:39 this is so frustrating Aug 24 01:38:02 im sorry but im still not understanding what a ".changes" file is or where im supposed to get one from Aug 24 01:38:15 :/ Aug 24 01:39:12 This might be helpful: https://maemo.org/forrest-images/pdf/maemo-policy.pdf Aug 24 01:41:52 http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/Maemo_Diablo_Reference_Manual_for_maemo_4.1.pdf Aug 24 01:49:56 thnx GeneralAntilles ... reading them now Aug 24 01:50:48 i have a deb that works on a clean tablet ... i just cant figure out these ".changes" files :( Aug 24 01:58:30 this is just not worth the effort Aug 24 01:58:38 the docs all contradict each other Aug 24 01:58:43 and nothing actually makes much sense Aug 24 01:58:56 i think i'll just put the deb on my own server and host it there Aug 24 01:59:03 thanks anyways' Aug 24 02:00:16 ugh Aug 24 02:03:06 none of the docs are set up or geared to python apps Aug 24 02:03:18 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Aug 24 02:03:25 gah Aug 24 02:03:34 sorry Aug 24 02:03:38 moontiger, talk to Khertgan. Aug 24 02:04:44 its amazing ... nokia builds a tablet and hopes the community writes software for it ... but gives not much help with docs and such Aug 24 02:04:49 very frustrating Aug 24 02:05:11 erm Aug 24 02:05:13 i'm confused Aug 24 02:05:22 nokia built a platform around Gtk - C Aug 24 02:05:36 they didn't provide instructions for building applications using Wx Aug 24 02:05:46 nor did they provide instructions for building applications using VB Aug 24 02:05:53 nor using VJ++ Aug 24 02:05:56 nor VC# Aug 24 02:06:01 nor Haskel Aug 24 02:06:08 nor Delphi Aug 24 02:06:16 nor dozens of other languages Aug 24 02:06:27 * timeless thinks they should have included at least VB Aug 24 02:06:32 it's a really popular language! Aug 24 02:06:44 how do they expect people to write crummy apps w/o instructions? Aug 24 02:07:15 oh, and the real crime is that they don't include instructions for building apps using Logo Aug 24 02:14:21 The point is, Python is officially supported, so why would you expect official documentation? Aug 24 02:14:23 sorry timeless im just very frustrated Aug 24 02:16:18 its not so much building the package ... that i have ... its the "uploading to extras" bit and requirements that im having trouble with Aug 24 02:17:45 im gonna quit posting here as im too frustrated and im pissing everyone off Aug 24 02:17:47 laterz Aug 24 02:18:43 * GeneralAntilles agrees that the docs on that stuff aren't very useful, but isn't sure exactly what Nokia should do about that. Aug 24 02:18:56 There's an Extras BoF setup during the Summit, no? Aug 24 02:19:28 Qt has ample documentation Aug 24 02:20:32 Erm, is that relevant? Aug 24 02:26:22 Erm, that should read "_isn't officially supported" Aug 24 02:33:01 timeless: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mail/extensions/newsblog/content/Feed.js#383 Aug 24 02:33:07 why is ) red? :) Aug 24 02:33:42 (#407 may be interesting) Aug 24 02:34:18 sp3000: can you use konigsberg? Aug 24 02:34:39 a what? Aug 24 02:35:05 .mozilla.org, tx google Aug 24 02:35:17 http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mail/extensions/newsblog/content/Feed.js#383 Aug 24 02:35:49 the ) is red because i haven't properly figured out how to write regexp terminators :( Aug 24 02:35:53 blog/146 says "to crowded" :) Aug 24 02:36:05 oh gah Aug 24 02:38:01 fixed :o Aug 24 02:38:33 and the answer is, apparently not Aug 24 02:39:43 sp3000: are you 80.*, 193.*, or 24.* ? Aug 24 02:39:48 80 Aug 24 02:40:20 try again Aug 24 02:47:44 better Aug 24 02:48:25 but yeah, in short that just requires a lot of magic work for the word highlighting rules Aug 24 02:48:42 * sp3000 is surprised that http://www.google.fi/search?q=konigsberg turned out as relevant as it did Aug 24 02:49:00 wow Aug 24 02:49:02 that rocks Aug 24 02:49:41 kinda sad that .com is not as nice Aug 24 02:50:22 yeah, &hl=en buries to 12 Aug 24 02:51:07 http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/mxr-test/source/lib/LXR/Common.pm?mark=29-43,36#25 Aug 24 02:51:13 is the code that does the work iirc Aug 24 02:51:47 http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/mxr-test/source/lib/SimpleParse.pm Aug 24 02:51:51 is the rest of the magic Aug 24 02:52:48 heh, I started complaining about colored parens when I got cross-eyed reading js, and now you make me read perl :P Aug 24 02:52:56 * sp3000 needs a nap Aug 24 02:53:28 well, if you can figure it out, i'll buy you dinner Aug 24 02:53:36 did you hear about corematic? Aug 24 02:54:11 it sounds like it might not have collected useful stacks for gecko (!js) crashes Aug 24 02:54:30 we're having a hard time figuring out if that's true though Aug 24 02:55:18 I think I noticed a few ending in libxul but I didn't have time to look at it Aug 24 02:56:26 if you could try to resubmit those, that'd be great Aug 24 02:56:36 w30+ should automatically do something better Aug 24 02:57:18 resubmit seems to be: echo 'resubmit' > corematic-resubmit ; lzop corematic-resubmit; cat corematic-resubmit.lzo >> foo.rcore Aug 24 02:57:28 then upload *.rcore :) Aug 24 02:58:20 heh Aug 24 02:58:24 that'll work **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 24 02:59:56 2008