**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 27 02:59:56 2008 Aug 27 04:11:07 Hey all Aug 27 04:11:51 Wrote up a little article on Maemo games... feel free to digg it to give maemo a little exposure. Aug 27 04:11:52 http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_Best_in_Linux_Handheld_Gaming_Part_1 Aug 27 04:12:13 Ya know. If you feel so inclined. :) Aug 27 04:21:40 numpty physics need more included levels Aug 27 04:22:40 Agreed. Aug 27 04:22:47 But it's pretty awesome. :) Aug 27 04:22:51 It needs a built-in level downloader Aug 27 04:23:24 have to try that pengupop game Aug 27 04:23:26 So true. That would be fantastic. Aug 27 04:23:28 i lovve bust a move Aug 27 04:23:36 Heh, same! Aug 27 04:26:03 there was this game Aug 27 04:26:15 contraptions or what it was called Aug 27 04:26:18 windows game Aug 27 04:26:22 clone of that would pwn Aug 27 04:28:21 it had all sorts or devices and such you'd place around the screen to make something happen, rube goldberg style Aug 27 04:28:43 That's an old one Aug 27 04:28:50 Enigmo is another clone Aug 27 04:28:55 I played that one in the 90s Aug 27 04:28:59 Forget the name, though. Aug 27 04:29:15 i played contraptions in school Aug 27 04:29:23 teacher used it to help us think or whatnot Aug 27 04:29:28 loved it Aug 27 04:30:49 pfft work Aug 27 04:31:34 Seriously though. If any off you use digg. Let's get a Maemo story to the front page: http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_Best_in_Linux_Handheld_Gaming_Part_1 Aug 27 04:49:56 so, i don't understand these watchdogs. Aug 27 04:50:24 if I write an application that eats all of the CPU, i can cause the device to reboot instead of having the OS just kill my process? Aug 27 04:51:53 Not quite Aug 27 04:52:00 But I dunno the specifics Aug 27 04:52:07 That's a maemo-developers question Aug 27 04:53:06 mailing list? Aug 27 04:53:13 * dougt found it. https://lists.maemo.org/mailman//listinfo/maemo-developers Aug 27 04:53:19 is there a irc channel for dev questions? Aug 27 04:54:22 Here Aug 27 04:54:33 cool. Aug 27 04:54:37 But the people best able to answer watchdog questions are on the mailing list Aug 27 04:54:44 Igor Stoppa is your man Aug 27 04:57:32 hey GA does this player work on microB http://jiwa.fm Aug 27 04:57:41 flash player Aug 27 04:58:04 the ones i've tried before didn't and now i don't have my nit with me Aug 27 04:58:09 Broken URL Aug 27 04:58:40 http://www.jiwa.fm/ Aug 27 05:06:49 Doesn't really seem to be, but I dunno. Aug 27 05:10:39 yeah it's probably the same flash player modified Aug 27 05:34:59 ok, so i flirted with the eee, but mostly came back to my n8x0... Aug 27 05:35:13 Heh. Aug 27 05:35:18 I did something similar. Aug 27 05:35:20 but i think openpandora (if i can get one) will finally pull me away Aug 27 05:35:29 Love my Eee... but the N810 stays closer. Aug 27 05:36:07 I want an ARM netbook Aug 27 05:36:09 i dont know if the screen is transflective; thats about all i want Aug 27 05:36:24 GeneralAntilles, have you seen the specs on the pandora? Aug 27 05:36:36 Luria, yes, I'm very familiar with OMAP3 Aug 27 05:36:43 ah, ok Aug 27 05:36:43 But it's not netbook Aug 27 05:36:45 It's a DS Aug 27 05:37:06 Yeah, it's really the spiritual successor to the GP2x. Aug 27 05:37:15 s/not/no/ Aug 27 05:37:24 the ds has a qwerty keyboard? Aug 27 05:37:41 thumbboard Aug 27 05:37:46 It's the size and shape of a DS Aug 27 05:38:17 Not a netbook and not an internet tablet. Aug 27 05:38:18 Really though... DS shape + a thumboard... has a lot of potential. Aug 27 05:38:26 Meh, I don't care for it. Aug 27 05:38:27 but, if you drop a ds, it isn't going to blow up. Aug 27 05:38:29 I'd rather have the tablet. Aug 27 05:38:34 and more power than a nokia Aug 27 05:38:39 and working 3d Aug 27 05:38:45 Luria, N900 Aug 27 05:38:46 and svideo out Aug 27 05:38:50 I think I'm with you there. The tablet is probably more my thing... Aug 27 05:39:00 The N8x0 is basically 1.5 years old at this point. Aug 27 05:39:10 Any news on the n900? Aug 27 05:39:21 Nokia does not announce future hardware plans. ;) Aug 27 05:39:25 No, no FCC docs. Aug 27 05:39:27 and yet, the n810 wimax is the same thing again Aug 27 05:39:48 Erm, yeah, duh. Aug 27 05:39:52 It's SUPPOSED to be the same thing Aug 27 05:40:04 i know, what i mean is this: Aug 27 05:40:13 N900 with OMAP3430 is somewhere in the Q4 2008 - Q2 2009 Aug 27 05:40:22 The Pandora hasn't shipped Aug 27 05:40:26 Get back to me when it ships. Aug 27 05:40:45 while i know there is a future for the platform, if the n810w comes out ~oct, would nokia undercut its sales by releasing the n900 so quickly? Aug 27 05:41:12 no, but there are dev kit pandoras Aug 27 05:41:18 Dev kits don't count. Aug 27 05:41:24 Forget the WiMAX Aug 27 05:41:27 (recall the if i can get one) Aug 27 05:41:42 It's not relevant to the larger plan. Aug 27 05:41:51 thats good to hear Aug 27 05:42:10 I mean, what, it's supported in all of 6 or 7 US cities? Aug 27 05:42:33 You know the WiMAX tablet was originally going to be the N800W, right? Aug 27 05:42:39 yes Aug 27 05:42:44 Wow, I just tried lcuk's liqbase demo. I really like that reader he's working on. Aug 27 05:43:21 The "undercut" argument doesn't really work Aug 27 05:43:28 i dunno, HOPE's pipe was a 20/30 mbit connection over the hudson - yes, i know this is more point to point and not last mile wireless Aug 27 05:43:47 as the competition will start chiseling away Nokia's market if they sit with OMAP2 for too long. Aug 27 05:43:58 but it was commerical wimax Aug 27 05:44:14 Definitely interested in what the next N9xx looks like. -REALLY- hoping Nokia doesn't drop the qwerty. Aug 27 05:44:32 * GeneralAntilles is hoping they do. Aug 27 05:44:36 yes, i havent touched my n800 since the n810 Aug 27 05:44:37 The thumbboard on the N810 sucks Aug 27 05:44:40 Really? Aug 27 05:44:46 yes, it needs more travel Aug 27 05:44:53 Honestly... no qwerty... I ditch. Aug 27 05:44:59 Deal breaker level. Aug 27 05:45:08 It may not be great... but it's needed. Aug 27 05:45:16 hope they put a real gps chipset in Aug 27 05:45:28 There's no way they'll drop it Aug 27 05:45:32 I just don't care for it. Aug 27 05:45:41 Fair enough. :) Aug 27 05:45:43 I can type a lot faster on the fkb than that shitty thumb board. Aug 27 05:45:58 I want one of those haptic 770s they demoed. Aug 27 05:46:07 yeah, but you cant see the rest of the screen Aug 27 05:46:12 haptic 770? Aug 27 05:46:20 never saw that Aug 27 05:46:36 (btw: if you haven't yet... feel free to digg this maemo games post: http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_Best_in_Linux_Handheld_Gaming_Part_1 ) Aug 27 05:50:01 Somebody want to prod that "Nokia fails at changelogs" thread on -developers for me? Aug 27 05:50:06 I was hoping for more of a response. . . . Aug 27 06:11:36 more TSP Reports! Aug 27 06:19:32 GAN: Is prodding going to be of any use? Aug 27 06:20:11 Well, I got a response out of 3 engineers. Aug 27 06:20:23 Now we just need to bring it up back near the top again to get more. ;) Aug 27 06:20:40 By prodding, I mean prodding the thread, not the Nokia employees. Aug 27 06:26:30 tank-man: most subersive movie ever Aug 27 06:36:23 lol you people have no clue what's coming Aug 27 06:36:24 enjoy feeding the rats Aug 27 06:36:25 with your bodies Aug 27 06:42:11 nou Aug 27 06:42:15 * GeneralAntilles launches breaded and deep-fried pigeons at pupnik. Aug 27 06:42:24 yum! Aug 27 06:42:31 * Proteous points to his mouth Aug 27 06:42:33 <---- Aug 27 06:42:38 RIGHT HERE Aug 27 06:42:49 * GeneralAntilles launches more at Proteous. Aug 27 06:42:50 SQUAB Aug 27 06:42:54 * GeneralAntilles hits Proteous in the eye. Aug 27 07:29:53 Stskeeps: Here's g_serial. Whether it actually works is a different matter... http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/g_serial.ko Aug 27 07:30:02 qwerty12: oh, neat :) Aug 27 07:31:11 for 2.6.21? Aug 27 07:31:29 Yeah, compiled from diablo sources with nokia_2420_defconfig Aug 27 07:32:31 Greetings and salutations everyone! :) Aug 27 07:37:56 I demand some attention! :p Aug 27 07:38:53 * aquatix pats Addison Aug 27 07:38:53 * Stskeeps passes Addison a rat Aug 27 07:39:09 there's a good Addison Aug 27 07:39:54 Heh, US air traffic is stuck again Aug 27 07:40:17 morning Aug 27 07:40:22 * RST38h is praying to the Deep Ones to prevent another US ATC cluster fuck on August 29 Aug 27 07:40:31 hrw Aug 27 07:40:37 morning hrw Aug 27 07:43:16 * qwerty12 is bored. me looks into replacing fb-progress with splashy. Aug 27 07:44:50 splashy? Aug 27 07:45:10 userspace bootsplash replacement Aug 27 07:45:17 ah Aug 27 07:45:21 Not *another* Tux picture Aug 27 07:45:25 Please. Aug 27 07:45:47 heheheh Aug 27 07:45:59 Hehe, Tux with a gun to his head won't satisfy you? Aug 27 07:46:06 if i'm going to put a bootsplash on deblet, it's going to be the deblet logo, molesting tux Aug 27 07:46:06 no Aug 27 07:46:09 :P Aug 27 07:46:12 RST38h: you can put the bsd devil or boobies in there too Aug 27 07:46:17 I just want that stupid penguin gone Aug 27 07:46:29 Drown him in some Finnish lake somewhere. Aug 27 07:46:40 Same goes for the devil, although with a lesser degree Aug 27 07:47:03 or that bloathed fish Aug 27 07:47:08 fb-progress is that blue line? Aug 27 07:47:12 yep Aug 27 07:47:24 fb-progress is open source actually Aug 27 07:47:49 hrw: Wanted to ask, are you a regular employee of Openedhand? Aug 27 07:47:52 qwerty12: can't you better channel your time/energy in some synching software? :) Aug 27 07:48:07 contacts/agenda synching or something Aug 27 07:48:12 RST38h: no, I was contractor for OH Aug 27 07:48:38 aquatix: I'm a lowly compiler :). I haz no programming knowledge except for the bits I've picked up here and there Aug 27 07:49:08 It's a shame NOLO sucks as a bootloader, the only way to pass kernel arguments is to recompile the kernel itself. Aug 27 07:49:10 * Stskeeps is sure qwerty12 will make something big of himself someday Aug 27 07:49:23 hrw: Oh, ok.. Aug 27 07:49:28 Heh, thanks :) Aug 27 07:49:54 qwerty: Got a request for the lowly compiler then Aug 27 07:50:53 Come on, you know a hell of a lot more than me :P Aug 27 07:50:57 qwerty: http://qalculate.sourceforge.net/ Aug 27 07:51:15 It was requested by a few more people lately Aug 27 07:51:54 Hmm, I think I tried that one once to no avail, I'll try again :). Meanwhile, people have it working in chroot. Aug 27 07:53:00 yea, but it is useless for people who have no debian installed Aug 27 07:54:23 True, I'll start installing/building dependencies. Aug 27 07:54:32 ooh, qalculate would be cool Aug 27 07:54:47 qwerty12: can't you base it on debian's package? Aug 27 07:55:37 aquatix: aye, I can build it using debian modifications but libraries are different in maemo so different results Aug 27 07:55:46 sometimes i really wonder about debian dependancies.. like, wtf is there 'radeontool' (for ATI Radeon), .. on armel? Aug 27 07:55:57 qwerty12: ah, true Aug 27 07:56:08 Stskeeps: lol Aug 27 07:56:43 Stskeeps: armel users need their overclocking fix :P Aug 27 08:00:24 qwerty12: try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2dgMNm64Mg Aug 27 08:00:33 david sylvian - orpheus Aug 27 08:01:30 Interesting video :) Aug 27 08:02:12 Pupnik! What's up you scum lapping piece of dirt? :) Aug 27 08:02:39 your words ring true Aug 27 08:08:07 it's kinda scary that kde3 is so snappy on tablet Aug 27 08:30:29 * qwerty12 notes never to compile math libraries again Aug 27 08:31:05 hehe Aug 27 08:31:08 Trouble? Aug 27 08:31:32 BTW, f@#king Modest no longer crashes but it gets stuck now and then Aug 27 08:32:13 RST38h: Still compiling after a long time :D Aug 27 08:32:31 I hope you are not compiling it on the tablet Aug 27 08:32:31 I haven't even got started on qcalculate Aug 27 08:32:39 hell no, I ain't lcuk Aug 27 08:33:40 heh Aug 27 08:37:49 Gentlemen, please check out this bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3641 Aug 27 08:37:54 And bloody confirm it Aug 27 08:38:19 Sorry, don't use modest here. Aug 27 08:38:47 yea, I understand :( Aug 27 08:38:55 f*** me, after taking ages to compile, the debian/rules had a make check in it >.< Aug 27 08:39:10 * sp3000 hasn't seen that, not that I invoke the ui that often Aug 27 08:39:13 RST38h, did you notice my call-out to the Modest devs? :P Aug 27 08:42:09 GAN: I am not following mailing lists - too much other stuff =( Aug 27 08:42:13 Maybe I should though Aug 27 08:42:42 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-August/034736.html Aug 27 08:43:55 GAN: Changelog referring to bug numbers is normal Aug 27 08:44:18 That is how most companies operate - when you submit a change, you refer to a bug tracker entry Aug 27 08:44:25 RST38h: But a) the Modest bug tracker should be the open Bugzilla, b) it should also say *how* it's fixed the bug. Aug 27 08:44:29 * RST38h does not, but a lot of coworkers do Aug 27 08:44:41 * Jaffa slaps anyone here who *solely* refers to a JIRA issue. Aug 27 08:44:43 RST38h: ah, i've encountered that too Aug 27 08:44:53 GeneralAntilles: Agreed. Modest devs seem singularly insular. Aug 27 08:45:08 Somebody else should take over from them Aug 27 08:45:15 Somebody realistic Aug 27 08:45:20 * aquatix uses claws-mail now though Aug 27 08:45:32 Someone should dpkg-repack the old email client Aug 27 08:45:39 aquatix: Do confirm the bug though - if nobody does, these guys will ignore it Aug 27 08:45:57 I'd do it but I can't be arsed to mount chinook rootfs and shove it all into a DIABLO_ARMEL target Aug 27 08:46:16 * qwerty12 yawns, shit finally compiled. I'll put up the packages so no one else has to go through hell Aug 27 08:46:28 Well, the math library anyway Aug 27 08:47:11 #ffd086 seems like it'd be a bit less irritating a background color for the Bugzilla footer. . . . Aug 27 08:48:20 sdk+ has finally got diablo rootstrap Aug 27 08:48:35 RST38h: busy thinking what my maemo bugzilla pw was :) Aug 27 08:48:47 reboooting to linsux Aug 27 08:49:21 RST38h: you can always install freebsd or something ;) Aug 27 08:49:29 [if you think linux sucks :)] Aug 27 08:50:08 So, uh, who's gonna be working on the new maemo.org look at the Summit. :P Aug 27 08:50:13 "FreeBSD welcome screen" - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/FreeBSD.png/280px-FreeBSD.png Aug 27 08:50:20 Oh yeah, I so want to be welcomed to that Aug 27 08:50:31 It gets worse after that, though Aug 27 08:50:42 qwerty12: hm, that's an almost readable thumb Aug 27 08:50:46 but indeed Aug 27 08:51:00 :P http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:FreeBSD.png Aug 27 08:51:14 * qwerty12 clicked copy image location, not copy link >.< Aug 27 08:52:54 :) Aug 27 08:56:56 aquatix: And how am I gonna use Maemo sdk? Aug 27 08:57:29 What is wrong with this screen? Aug 27 08:58:13 Hey qwerty.... Have you looked at the keyboards yet? Aug 27 08:58:21 I see it every morning. Looks fine, except that some Linux fan seems to have changed csh to bash Aug 27 08:58:40 Addison: not yet Aug 27 08:58:55 I never liked you qwerty! :) Aug 27 08:59:00 :P Aug 27 08:59:12 RST38h: erm, VM? :P Aug 27 08:59:44 aquatix: no, thanks Aug 27 09:00:51 if i ever meet a viagra spammer, i will disembowel him with my fingers Aug 27 09:00:54 RST38h: :) Aug 27 09:02:09 pupnik: I'd use bricks instead... Aug 27 09:03:40 Force feed them viagra. Aug 27 09:04:03 Sigh, more NB madness: http://pastebin.com/m5af71d12 Aug 27 09:05:41 NB? Aug 27 09:05:48 Nokia Bug Aug 27 09:05:53 ah Aug 27 09:05:59 Masking the email domains? odd Aug 27 09:06:04 + lsd, then let them roam through Salt Lake City naked Aug 27 09:07:06 Salt Lake? Bleh, boring. Make that SF. They might get some action there. ;) Aug 27 09:07:41 "forbidden words".. wtf :P Aug 27 09:08:33 SF? Make that Guantánamo Bay. They can have a cock meat sandwich. Aug 27 09:11:07 GAN: We want him lynched, not raped! Aug 27 10:03:13 good morning Aug 27 10:03:30 morning Aug 27 10:20:33 Don't listen to qwerty, he's an animal! *lol* Aug 27 10:25:47 what animal is he? Aug 27 10:35:39 a bad one I think Aug 27 10:49:02 Hello Aug 27 10:49:30 one of you use gdata here ? Aug 27 10:57:22 * L0cutus need mldonkey on maemo :) Aug 27 10:58:20 L0cutus: Compile it and share, I hate the time to compile that :P.I'm using Transmission and gtk-gnutella atm Aug 27 10:58:37 hehehe Aug 27 10:58:53 transmission is only for *torrent right ? Aug 27 10:59:04 yep Aug 27 10:59:14 ok Aug 27 10:59:27 Someone's uploaded rtorrent in extras too Aug 27 11:00:25 mmm i don't use torrent very much unfortunately Aug 27 11:00:43 *mule is what i need :-) Aug 27 11:01:37 jott, basic alpha blending works nicely :) Aug 27 11:05:12 GAN800: free's changelog is fantastic. Aug 27 11:05:20 GAN800: are his scripts public? Aug 27 11:06:34 Jaffa: http://p.quinput.eu/debfarm/chdiffx.pl.txt + vi Aug 27 11:16:13 * Khertan_n810 don t understand why sync with googlecalendar is so long Aug 27 11:18:59 someone know how modest store the alarmd cookies for the autosync Aug 27 11:19:15 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/27/worse_things_happen_at_sea/ Aug 27 11:19:28 because i think it store it as we can t get a list of ecisting alarm Aug 27 11:21:07 afternoon Aug 27 11:21:30 hi there lardman, did you enjoy your weekend? Aug 27 11:21:30 hi lardman Aug 27 11:21:38 hey qwerty12_N800 Aug 27 11:21:50 lcuk: not especially, looking at wedding venues, very stressful Aug 27 11:22:06 lcuk: you? Aug 27 11:22:26 ooooh, it was for you - i thought you were goin to someone elses wedding Aug 27 11:22:40 yeah, that was the weekend before last Aug 27 11:22:43 mapart from raging toothache (which is now cured) code has been goin great Aug 27 11:22:51 urgh, dentist Aug 27 11:23:14 ive done the physics view using all jpegs found on my computer - with alpha blended bitmaps :) Aug 27 11:23:21 cool :) Aug 27 11:23:52 obviously its not as smooth when im drawing multiple fullscreen overlapping eleements, but when its not entire screen its niiiiice and fast Aug 27 11:25:26 i installed canola yesterday to have a look at its alpha blending goodness - and a couplf of things jumped out - how slow and limited the movement actually is - its using the smalled amount of blending possible and it still jerks Aug 27 11:25:35 and the media library doesnt fill up instantly Aug 27 11:26:20 i have my software set to do recursive directory scans of /home and /media and it completes and builds a filelist in ~ 1-2 seconds Aug 27 11:26:33 i dont understand why file lists cannot be the same .. Aug 27 11:26:45 shame Canola isn't open source so you could tweak it Aug 27 11:27:29 yer, i know some of it is, and the meta data inside files is important, but to be told ive got no movies or music or anything on my device is wrong Aug 27 11:27:50 even if it was "43 files, listing by name" then as meta info loaded its includable Aug 27 11:28:06 im thinking about a realtime search like the apple searchbox Aug 27 11:28:15 the media scanner part of it is oss Aug 27 11:28:45 yer qwerty12_N800 but to understand how it slots in would really need canola source Aug 27 11:29:01 ah Aug 27 11:29:11 im not gonna dig into something i will have to say "imagine canola is running xyz now" Aug 27 11:29:58 would it be evil if i used the media scanner ;) Aug 27 11:31:46 lardman, did you find a venue then? Aug 27 11:32:06 lcuk: it ll be really take time to parse metadata Aug 27 11:32:19 so if you use metalayer-crawler Aug 27 11:32:23 lcuk: looked at 16! narrowed it down Aug 27 11:32:46 expect useless device for 4 hours after inserting an 6Go sd card Aug 27 11:32:59 Khertan_n810, it doesnt matter, i can build a filelist uickly and let another thread start churning at the extra meta data - but the interface should be usable instantly is what i am saying Aug 27 11:33:20 lardman, !!!! 16 thats a lot of vicars Aug 27 11:33:38 lcuk: just for the reception, church is known already Aug 27 11:33:53 ahhhh thats ok then Aug 27 11:33:59 when is the big day? Aug 27 11:34:09 * lardman is even looking forward to debugging dsp-tremor over doing more costing spreadhseets Aug 27 11:34:24 aiming for end of May/start of June next year Aug 27 11:34:30 and have you checked it doesnt clash with maemo summit/nokia day/football/x factor/enders special etc Aug 27 11:34:36 lol Aug 27 11:35:02 no, but that'll just cut costs ;) Aug 27 11:35:25 leave the beancounting to the bestman, you carry on debugging tremor :D Aug 27 11:35:50 lcuk: Holly and I are paying the lion's share though, so I need to do bean counting Aug 27 11:36:19 anyway, will crack on with Tremor at lunch time Aug 27 11:36:42 lol, its bloody expensive all the wedding stuff Aug 27 11:36:50 tell me about it! :) Aug 27 11:36:53 did you see the couple that managed it on about £400 Aug 27 11:37:04 i think they had a mcdonalds or something :D Aug 27 11:37:17 lol, I did think of throwing that at the mother in law Aug 27 11:37:32 lol Aug 27 11:39:40 I need to debug the crc code again, painful after spending all that time re-writing it and the bit-reading code to read from the 16bit chars Aug 27 11:40:34 now gone to only storing 8bits in each 16bit char, which will hopefully make getting something up and running easier - converting the code back, I spotted loads of things I'd missed going the other way :S Aug 27 11:42:08 lardman, always the way, glad you are simplifying it though. Aug 27 11:42:41 well it's stagnating, I'd like to get it to a state where it at least runs, then perhaps people will be intereted in optimisation, etc. Aug 27 11:43:40 i would jump on the code as fast as i could if the level of entry into dsp coding wasnt so high Aug 27 11:44:12 it's not! Aug 27 11:44:17 people just think that Aug 27 11:44:27 ok... so how do i install and run from my nokia.. Aug 27 11:44:33 or even, can i Aug 27 11:44:37 Ah, well that's a minor issue then :) Aug 27 11:44:41 no Aug 27 11:44:42 ;) Aug 27 11:44:52 its windows based sdk isnt it Aug 27 11:45:00 which makes life easier for me :D Aug 27 11:45:07 no, Linux command line toolchain, like GCC Aug 27 11:45:18 Not sure how the Windows based one works, never tried it Aug 27 11:45:22 im sure you said it was windows Aug 27 11:45:33 There's a windows based one too Aug 27 11:45:34 ahhh - you mustv said there is one, no prob Aug 27 11:45:58 so does it live inside scratchbox, or does it have its own Aug 27 11:46:31 nah, it's a cross-compiler, so it's an x86 binary Aug 27 11:46:53 or rather a group of x86 binaries - compiler, linker, etc. Aug 27 11:47:28 i have to register to download don't i? Aug 27 11:47:33 yes Aug 27 11:47:38 free registration though Aug 27 11:48:03 I need to update the instructions on the DSP programming wiki page though, Ti have re-organised their download pages Aug 27 11:48:41 maybe after the summit i'll see what help i can get from the dsp :) Aug 27 11:49:05 i think i used a bugmenot to get some ti stuff Aug 27 11:49:21 the image scaling and alpha blending code is byte optimized and not as quick as the other code (which copies 32bits as a time) Aug 27 11:49:24 lcuk: graphically we may be limited, if ssvb's there we should have a chat to him Aug 27 11:50:17 Anyway, if you have parallelised code, you could offload some stuff, depends really Aug 27 11:50:33 accessing shared memory is pretty slow Aug 27 11:50:52 yer i know it maybe so, but i just wanna see how multi core updating works - ie simulate arm+iva updating at same time Aug 27 11:51:15 will be interesting to see if this video out uses the IVA to do the mpeg2/4 encoding Aug 27 11:51:18 it cant be that slow surely - its a dsp which needs lots of datas Aug 27 11:51:41 which video out? ahhhh the one quim oooopsied on Aug 27 11:51:56 lcuk: well you pass the data in, then do lots of processing using the fast internal memory, so depending on the data/processing ratio it might make sense Aug 27 11:52:13 lcuk: yeah, there's a thready on itt too about it Aug 27 11:52:15 * RST38h read it as "fast inFernal memory" Aug 27 11:52:20 assuming that's the same one Aug 27 11:52:31 data in 2000 vectors. data out rendered rectangle of pixel goodness Aug 27 11:52:32 RST38h: :) well it is that, not enough of it Aug 27 11:52:52 lcuk: the framebuffer memory is shared though too.... Aug 27 11:53:14 yes i know Aug 27 11:53:28 I couldn't get above 5fps iirc, not sure how far ssvb got with that Aug 27 11:53:44 were you usikng xv? Aug 27 11:53:59 no, directly drawing to the framebuffer from the DSP Aug 27 11:54:01 or direct framebuffer Aug 27 11:54:10 ahhh yes, i remember the space scene Aug 27 11:54:14 yeah Aug 27 11:54:24 I'll have to refresh my memory on that for my talk Aug 27 11:55:01 lunch time, bbiab Aug 27 11:55:16 what would be the practicalities of setting up a base vmware image for DSP dev? Aug 27 11:55:57 damn, catch you later Aug 27 11:57:27 McCain has proposed prolonging Shuttle life beyond 2012 Aug 27 11:58:23 i think with tension heating up between russia and everyone else they need a backup plan Aug 27 11:58:41 They have NO backup plan. This is the funniest part. Aug 27 11:58:59 Orion is being delayed in development, engineering problems. Aug 27 11:59:27 yer, they need more gravel on the track between garage and launchpad Aug 27 11:59:37 Shuttles have reached the age where they start randomly crashing Aug 27 11:59:58 they have been that age all along, its sheer luck Aug 27 12:00:06 And they just don't want to cooperate with Russians for xenophobic reasons Aug 27 12:00:48 maybe the chinese will help them out :| :D :S Aug 27 12:01:58 No deal, same reasoning Aug 27 12:02:54 so they give up manned spaceflight, or they carry on with shuttles Aug 27 12:04:49 Can't carry on with Shuttles - too old Aug 27 12:05:05 they can carry on untill the last one explodes Aug 27 12:05:19 Well, they can, but as soon as last remaining orbiters (2?) crash and burn, they are back to the "give up" stage Aug 27 12:06:23 BTW, refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Orbiter Aug 27 12:06:41 They appear to crash in order of manufacture time Aug 27 12:11:14 Enterprise ain't crashed yet ;-) Aug 27 12:11:21 Although it did get cancelled after 4 seasons Aug 27 12:11:42 The real one can't fly Aug 27 12:11:47 It is a training vehicle afaik Aug 27 12:12:05 Well, it can atmospherically fly; IIRC. Aug 27 12:12:52 My shoes can atmospherically fly =) Aug 27 12:13:05 That's not flying, just falling with style. Aug 27 12:13:13 Admittedly, not much better than the Shuttle does ;-) Aug 27 12:14:26 * RST38h just hopes that Obama gets elected and, being a lawyer, has enough common sense not to screw things up Aug 27 12:47:30 how would i diagnose a situation where sbrshd on a device silently fails to attempt mounting the nfs shares specified in .sbrsh? Aug 27 12:48:10 the log says it receives a mount packet but after that there's no error message and also nothing is mounted Aug 27 13:02:08 Hello again ! (copyright Apple Computer) Aug 27 13:02:43 EHLO Aug 27 13:02:55 iHello Aug 27 13:04:54 i m staying on the 'Hello Again !' of the Macintosh Plus :) Aug 27 13:06:33 But you can express 'EHLO' with a single 32bit integer Aug 27 13:06:38 Isn't it better? Aug 27 13:06:52 not sure, 32bit integer are 4 bytes Aug 27 13:07:06 while `EHLO' can be expressed in 7bit ascii Aug 27 13:07:31 so, 28bit effectively Aug 27 13:08:30 we will soon start re-import of all maemo email list archives on maemo.org. Expect slowness Aug 27 13:08:45 unfortunately the new server cluster didn't quite make it for this operation yet Aug 27 13:08:47 hola Aug 27 13:13:57 huh, just making a DB backup via mysqldump --opt takes 15+ mins Aug 27 13:26:04 aquatix, nice. the internets will work really well using your 7bit optimization technique. and the world will use 12.5% less electricity Aug 27 13:26:37 Any knows where can I change keyboard layout on sbox? Aug 27 13:27:18 The trick with 7-bit protocol is you can affort to use the eighth for parity. Aug 27 13:27:41 Anunakin: scratchbox cares about keyboard layout? Aug 27 13:27:58 Do you mean in the display "emulator" session (Xephyr)? Aug 27 13:28:04 but if we still have to use the 8th bit, theres no savings i would rather simply use 7bit cleanly and leave parity to itself Aug 27 13:28:31 who needs error checking/correction anyway Aug 27 13:28:34 its not likkqqiosiodoiemvcoierg Aug 27 13:29:00 *carrier lost* Aug 27 13:29:13 Some peopple could use Hamming coding Aug 27 13:30:15 isnt there an internet law somehwere about "the more you attempt to correct or laugh at those making mistakes, the more mistakes you make yourself?" Aug 27 13:30:40 XTL: i do, when i'm tired Aug 27 13:31:29 heh :D if irc made you specify a checksum for your posts Aug 27 13:32:15 based on natural language parsers and some machine learning on your past typos Aug 27 13:32:19 XTL:Here my keyb, not working at my native layout... Aug 27 13:33:53 aquatix, omg no - historical fixups are bad - i wouldnt want to be autocorrected here in maemo after ive just spent a couple of hours in the midget trapeze prostitute channel - it could get embarrassing Aug 27 13:33:55 XTL: the error is on Xephyr/Maemo emulated with af-.... script Aug 27 13:35:01 Right. Aug 27 13:35:02 lcuk: mental image... disturbing... Aug 27 13:35:13 lcuk: might want to filter on used channel ;) Aug 27 13:35:16 Anunakin: Never actually looked at that.. Aug 27 13:36:58 aquatix, was just an example, but its one of the problems with global dictionaries and auto correct.. Aug 27 13:37:17 i know :) Aug 27 13:38:29 speaking of going to special sites and rooms, the new porn browsing feature of ie8 - what happens if you click on a movie in ie and it opens in mediaplayer - would that also honour the porn browsing or will temp folder be filled up with movies.. ? Aug 27 13:39:07 browsing porn in IE doesn't sound like a good idea anyway Aug 27 13:39:28 ok, searching for presents for your wife without her seeing what you wanna buy her Aug 27 13:39:35 lcuk: maybe they will put a restricted mode into mediaplayer too Aug 27 13:39:48 but what if i use mplayer Aug 27 13:39:48 create a huge, walled garden Aug 27 13:39:51 or real player Aug 27 13:39:57 or anything Aug 27 13:40:04 well, i think you just found their achilles heel ;) Aug 27 13:40:13 opens a word document - does it go into the word recent history Aug 27 13:40:39 the more reason to implement the trusted computing platform! Aug 27 13:40:50 there is a whole can of worms that the feature would open up - and especially for the home users - they think it will be an invisibility shield against the world - hell some are saying it will make it impossible for police to detect badness Aug 27 13:40:57 arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Aug 27 13:41:06 no, just a ram disk please :) Aug 27 13:41:33 lcuk: but, but, but, in combination with Vista that'll take 16GB of ram to browse! Aug 27 13:41:37 a proper honest to goodness real life dynamic ram disk (take the code from amiga if required :) ) Aug 27 13:41:51 16gb to boot, maybe more if you actually wannna do anything Aug 27 13:42:15 yeah, i was calculating a 16MB ram drive for browsing Aug 27 13:42:20 bare minimum, hey Aug 27 13:42:37 dont allocate anything, just expand as required :) Aug 27 13:43:10 "oooops no space left - you have filled 3.2GB with thumbnails, please close 'secure mode' and restart your browser" Aug 27 13:43:22 it's windows, it'll take anything from you if you don't allocate Aug 27 13:43:31 please reboot your pc Aug 27 13:44:05 * aquatix wonders how much real pron 3.2GB of thumbnails represent :/ Aug 27 13:44:10 hey! maemo is just as bad. it did some update and told me to reboot Aug 27 13:44:28 depends if you are using skin colored jpeg dictionary or not Aug 27 13:44:32 still wonder when in-place kernel upgrading will be here Aug 27 13:44:45 So far the maemo updates have been equivalent to os upgrade. Aug 27 13:44:56 lcuk: indexed jpg's will be a lot smaller indeed Aug 27 13:45:32 Scrap these current systems and go for full live code update Aug 27 13:45:42 erlang++ Aug 27 13:45:47 Erlang :) Aug 27 13:46:02 Erlang tablets Aug 27 13:46:03 hmmmm, a kernel in erlang.. Aug 27 13:46:24 isnt there a research project to port the kernel to c# Aug 27 13:46:27 * lcuk ducks Aug 27 13:46:30 there is Aug 27 13:46:34 oh crap Aug 27 13:46:36 already been there, done that Aug 27 13:46:39 i was joking Aug 27 13:46:44 singularity or something it's called Aug 27 13:46:50 Oh, that. Aug 27 13:46:52 #weird microsoft Aug 27 13:47:02 ages old :) Aug 27 13:48:00 http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080208-developers-create-open-source-os-kernels-using-net-tools.html <- hm Aug 27 13:48:06 thats not the linux kernel though Aug 27 13:48:28 which of course is nice Aug 27 13:48:54 lcuk: nope, those are microkernels even Aug 27 13:49:22 yer i know, thankfully even they realise they need *some* assembler down in the core Aug 27 13:50:18 but i remember an object-oriented kernel from microsoft back in 2001 or something, but i guess that was that singularity project Aug 27 13:50:24 was way too slow ;) Aug 27 13:50:57 yer, anyway i best be goin Aug 27 13:50:59 back later Aug 27 13:51:09 laters Aug 27 13:51:18 * aquatix should code Aug 27 13:51:38 Have you noticed that everyone have already forgotten what a mess Vista development was, and how it ended, and are starting to talk about how Windows 7 is going to be the best OS ever? Aug 27 13:51:51 Veggen: marketing++ Aug 27 13:52:04 I seriously thought that'd not be possible again for Microsoft after Vista, but I was wrong. Aug 27 13:52:09 hell, win98 was the best OS ever Aug 27 13:52:40 according to them Aug 27 13:56:01 re Aug 27 14:01:22 it was, true Aug 27 14:01:35 win98 is still the best Windows ever =) Aug 27 14:01:39 for a certain subkind of people Aug 27 14:01:47 not sure Aug 27 14:01:54 win2k was ok-ish too Aug 27 14:09:55 I just flashed my n810, and when I use xterm and apt-get it asks me to become root.. so I use sudo (not to mention I cant remember why, but I didnt need to use sudo before I flashed). Whats the root password though? Aug 27 14:10:12 or 'user' rather Aug 27 14:10:59 c Aug 27 14:11:25 Anyone seen http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/aug08/6479/2 Aug 27 14:11:25 ? Aug 27 14:11:57 I thought it was going to be rather a lot of old hat at first, but they have some slightly novel ideas Aug 27 14:14:00 is there a becomeroot or something similar for Diablo? Aug 27 14:15:41 usicow: afaik sudo won't work Aug 27 14:15:54 usicow: the best way is to install ssh server/client and sshh localhost as root Aug 27 14:16:09 hmm Aug 27 14:16:12 thats a shame Aug 27 14:16:25 not really a shame Aug 27 14:16:27 you can put your device in R&D mode and use 'sudo gainroot' Aug 27 14:16:39 look at it as an opportunity to install very useful ssh tools Aug 27 14:17:39 The memory card is not in use, damnit! Aug 27 14:17:52 ccoke: what they are doing sounds reasonable Aug 27 14:18:16 prolly not as much help as it sounds like, but reasonable Aug 27 14:18:50 RST38h: more than you might think. Bloody shame it's patented. Aug 27 14:19:10 but I suspect that a free alternative based on prior art could be developed. Aug 27 14:25:34 hi guys, i'm trying to edit maemo summit wiki page, but the preview shows a mess. Is it happenning the same with you guys? I can publish it anyway? Aug 27 14:30:50 aloisioj1: are you logged ? Aug 27 14:31:43 Khertan: yes... i can edit, preview and publish Aug 27 14:33:02 but when i preview, the page shown is totally wrong (regarding page format).. i'm afraid of publish that... Aug 27 14:33:31 i just change 1 sentence... it's a little change... Aug 27 14:52:55 is the wiki down? Aug 27 15:09:47 how much are used n800's going for these days? Aug 27 15:11:34 <||cw> check ebay? Aug 27 15:11:41 ccooke: you cant really patent such stuff, I think Aug 27 15:12:22 RST38h: hah. I wish. Aug 27 15:13:52 it is too easy to od a little bit differently Aug 27 15:22:36 thinkgeek ... really funny capture ... Aug 27 15:22:37 http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/917f/?cpg=ab Aug 27 15:23:08 look ... i like seeing a geek try to remove a wheel with the cache Aug 27 15:23:09 :) Aug 27 15:23:17 s/try/trying Aug 27 15:23:38 Khertan, you're submitting pictures to thinkgeek Aug 27 15:23:39 I hope he uses a longer bar to tighten those wheel nuts Aug 27 15:23:56 erhm Aug 27 15:23:59 "he's" Aug 27 15:24:09 That's about as geek as it gets Aug 27 15:24:36 unless he has very strong wrists that is Aug 27 15:24:56 http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/tools/6d98/ Aug 27 15:25:00 Terror-Key ! Aug 27 15:26:58 Titanium Spork sounds more terrific Aug 27 15:28:41 lol google translate "enjoliveur" in french by wheel in english Aug 27 15:28:49 not really the same things Aug 27 15:29:51 lcuk, for some reason I had never paid any attention to liqbase.. I tried your demo out last night. I really like the book reader. The performance issue is strange. Aug 27 15:30:44 hi Aug 27 15:30:55 Khertan: hub cap? Aug 27 15:32:08 can i flash firmware without cable ? Aug 27 15:32:40 http://www.atwoodknives.com/ Aug 27 15:32:42 lardman: ? hum don't know Aug 27 15:33:52 http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/enjoliveur Aug 27 15:33:53 http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/pict/2502838722838080_1.jpg Aug 27 15:33:58 like that :) Aug 27 15:34:30 hum ... reverso seems to be a better translator than google Aug 27 15:39:42 just a stupid idea ... does the wifi on the nokia is more efficient in one direction than an other ... Aug 27 15:40:20 * Khertan thinking of a wifi detector ... Aug 27 15:41:42 Grackle_, what do you mean the performance issue? Aug 27 15:42:17 cu chaps Aug 27 15:42:24 cya lard Aug 27 15:42:50 khertan, i think the gps is directional Aug 27 15:44:58 from the nokia instruction manual for gps (this model is embedded in a sword shaped case) you must hold aloft your mighty n810 and shout "by the power of greyskull" http://www.he-man.org/news_images/heman.jpg Aug 27 15:47:11 lcuk, optimization issue, rather. The fact that the ondemand speed governor does not scale up to meet the demand of the optimized smooth scrolling code. Aug 27 15:48:41 yes, it was very annoying, there has been some changes since i got diablo, but the effect isstill there - though now a new problem has crept in: in powersave mode, it clocks itself up and speeds up when user touching device Aug 27 15:49:03 it throws out all sorts of tests i make expecting the cpu to be at a slow stable frequency Aug 27 15:49:43 do you like the little you have seen of liqbase though Aug 27 15:50:42 lcuk: yep but gps don't help to know the distance between a point of a wifi ap Aug 27 15:50:44 :) Aug 27 15:50:53 at an instant time Aug 27 15:51:36 leaving work ... see you tomorrow ... bye Aug 27 15:52:49 i gotta go as well, back later Aug 27 15:52:55 I like it very much. I definitely like the reader (though I wish there was a way to pause it or change the speed dynamically (perhaps using the -/+ buttons?), and I like the large finger friendly UI. The note taking program is neat, but I don't think it's something that I would use. Aug 27 15:59:46 lol iphone top downloaded app iPint Aug 27 16:00:01 simulate drinking a beer Aug 27 16:01:50 * Khertan_n810 is thinking of writing a pseudo accelerometer by using the webcam Aug 27 16:05:14 Do it with the gps Aug 27 16:07:18 Khertan: Yes please! Aug 27 16:09:03 Do it with both, with a nice Kalman filter mediating the process. Aug 27 16:10:17 Mine has a pretty fancy accelerometer feature built in. No modifications necessary. Aug 27 16:10:44 If it undergoes a force of over 10G, It shuts off. Aug 27 16:10:54 * Grackle_ drops it on the floor Aug 27 16:11:15 I've only tested it once, luckily. Aug 27 16:15:07 can i flash firmware without cable ? Aug 27 16:18:37 bye Aug 27 16:19:39 juke_: Sort of, through the ssu methods. But not really. Aug 27 16:19:48 (afaik) Aug 27 16:20:09 because i loose my datacable Aug 27 16:24:19 juke_, it's a standard USB A to mini-B cable. They Aug 27 16:24:23 gah Aug 27 16:24:33 They're used for cell phones and PDAs and mp3 players and such Aug 27 16:24:43 micro-B, isn't it? Aug 27 16:24:52 Mini-B is actually common Aug 27 16:24:53 It would probably be easiest just to go to a store and get a new one Aug 27 16:25:36 I'm pretty sure it's mini B, not micro B Aug 27 16:25:46 Unless the N810 has a different plug than the N800 Aug 27 16:25:52 The port differs on the N810 Aug 27 16:25:57 Oh, ok. Aug 27 16:26:03 N810 has micro B. I don't know 800 :) Aug 27 16:26:10 it's a n810 Aug 27 16:26:17 The N80 has a mini-B Aug 27 16:26:27 800 and 770 are standard mini ports, the 810 has an uncommon one Aug 27 16:26:35 juke_, you could probably get a replacement cable at a cell phone shop. Aug 27 16:26:46 Assuming it is micro-B Aug 27 16:27:10 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/05/27/picture-mini-vs-micro-usb.html Aug 27 16:27:18 wikipedia tells me it's a micro-B Aug 27 16:27:41 ok thx Aug 27 16:31:18 isn't the n810 a micor-AB? Aug 27 16:38:20 how can i get my phone book (on my phone) with my tablet ? Aug 27 16:38:29 it's ok for dial or sms Aug 27 16:38:38 s/or/for Aug 27 16:40:59 Evening all :) .... anyway, I was sitting here working this afternoon; logged into my laptop using a IPSec tunnel over ADSL to connect to work; my phone was popping up messages using bluetooth trigger; my tablet was quietly snoozing and my various linux servers were doing their thing.... so, at 4 o'clock I had a conference call. And how, in the midst of all this tec, did I know when it was 4 o'clock? The church bell chimed... and my wife said Aug 27 16:41:00 "Haven't you got a call now?"...... Aug 27 16:41:54 was that supposed to be funny? Aug 27 16:42:18 not funny - but it made me think about the mix of hi+lo tec Aug 27 16:42:29 most of that has nothing to do with time Aug 27 16:42:36 and how the simple chime was still useful Aug 27 16:43:04 could have just set an alarm on a phone Aug 27 16:43:21 no - but they all do lots of time things; my PVR boots itself up when it needs to record etc Aug 27 16:43:35 No kidding, phones have alarms now -- who knew? Aug 27 16:44:02 anyhow - feel free to ignore me Aug 27 16:44:08 ;) Aug 27 16:45:49 anyone know ca how long the n800s battery last for something simple as xterm, online mode? Aug 27 16:46:14 if you're connected to wlan for the whole time prob only a few hours Aug 27 16:46:52 i think more than that. i get about 5 for casual surfing and such, just never used xterm Aug 27 16:47:21 hmm really? my 810 doesn't seem to last that long Aug 27 16:47:47 though i never really tried to optimize battery life Aug 27 16:47:57 by casual i mean i sit at schol, leaving pidgin open, surf occasionally Aug 27 16:49:09 well xterm shouldn't use too much cpu, so most the batt would be used by screen and wireless, so you'd prob get about the same, maybe a little longer then surfing Aug 27 17:07:38 lbt, djeezus, phones have alarms ? Good God... Technology never stops, does it... Imagine, in a few years, we might even have devices that fit in the palm of our hand, and, I know this might sound quite silly, but imagine that we'd be able to use them to interact with a computer far away... Aug 27 17:08:42 Or, rather, the computer far away will use our cool future phones to keep tabs on us... Aug 27 17:09:01 CptLaptop, pidgin will drain the battery quite a lot, it's quite a CPU slut, though xterm, depending on the app it's running, shouldn't be a problem Aug 27 17:09:18 CptLaptop, what drains the most is obviously CPU use and the screen Aug 27 17:09:49 don't the various radios also use quite some power? Aug 27 17:10:18 crashanddie: and one day they'll invent something to make a noise at regular intervals so we can keep track Aug 27 17:10:54 but it won't be called alarmd !! Aug 27 17:16:30 is it bad to remote desktop to my pc because I can't be arsed to replace the batteries in my wireless keyboard? Aug 27 17:22:24 no Aug 27 17:22:47 it's good, actually Aug 27 17:22:50 http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2008/08/27/a-real-space-oddity-arrives-at-pc-pro/ Aug 27 17:22:53 gives you 5 extra points for your geek creds Aug 27 17:23:07 a 2"-a-side cube running linux... Aug 27 17:23:35 I'm reading it and thinking - "have you never seen a Nxx0" Aug 27 17:25:31 hello there Aug 27 17:25:42 I've just bough a N770 Aug 27 17:25:49 I'm discovering maemo :) Aug 27 17:33:34 whats the best app for changing the usb port to host mode? Aug 27 17:34:20 echo :) Aug 27 17:36:46 usicow, install maemo-control-usb, it will give you a control panel that will let you do that Aug 27 17:39:03 it does remove g_storage however and insmod's g_ether which is not what you always want Aug 27 17:39:47 Speaking of g_ether, can the internet tablet be used as a network bridge? Aug 27 17:39:54 Because that would be really handy. Aug 27 17:40:27 * qwerty12_N800 uses usbcontrol and usb-otg-plugin for usb switching Aug 27 17:42:05 Oh wait, I have ssh installed, I could just use that. Aug 27 18:01:33 Ok, I am... well I'll explain Aug 27 18:01:50 Can someone tell me if my 770 died? Aug 27 18:02:05 is the screen white? Aug 27 18:02:08 Is not WSOD. It's only that it won't turn on. Aug 27 18:02:20 Binky: battery all flat? Aug 27 18:02:42 Battery what (Don't use expressions, I'm spanish and my english is bad) Aug 27 18:02:46 It was full- Aug 27 18:02:47 if so, it often helps to just leave it in with the charger for quite a while, I think.. Aug 27 18:02:56 And i charged it about 2 or 3 hours Aug 27 18:03:19 hum. then it shouldn't be battery either. Aug 27 18:03:32 Also, I tried to connect to USB and trying USB + Home. It didn't work. Aug 27 18:03:37 exactly how doesn't it turn on? No reaction at all? Aug 27 18:03:49 Nothing. It does absolutely nothing. Aug 27 18:04:10 hmm. Well. You could always, perhaps, try another battery. Aug 27 18:04:30 I was thinking of removing the battery, but if i fix it and it turns on, it may cause WSOD. Aug 27 18:04:34 (I guess a decent Nokia shop would let you try before you buy) Aug 27 18:04:38 Veggen, I will Aug 27 18:05:17 And I tried to turn on with MMC inserted, removed and with the door opened (which is nonsense) Aug 27 18:05:39 Should I try removing the battery and inserting it? Aug 27 18:05:42 I don't like the fact that utilities and settings are in different menus. The difference is ambiguous. Aug 27 18:05:56 * Grackle_ never knows which one to look in when he wants to change something Aug 27 18:06:22 Grackle_, in spanish it is tools and utilities, it's almost the same, lol Aug 27 18:06:26 does the n770 suffer from the same "won't turn on unless in the fridge" problem the n810 does? Aug 27 18:06:34 what o.o Aug 27 18:06:52 mavhc, that may be the biggest WTF ever. Aug 27 18:07:40 my n810 did that, I turned it off to upgrade to diablo and it wouldn't turn on until I left it in the fridge for 15 minutes (in a bag) Aug 27 18:08:05 since the upgrade it's been fine Aug 27 18:08:22 I can't upgrade it though Aug 27 18:08:52 mavhc, that sounds cargo cultish - chances are it wouldv switched on itself after 15minutes Aug 27 18:09:28 it's a known thing, something to do with the temp sensor perhaps, I dunno Aug 27 18:09:49 hjang on a minute, ill carry on this convo after i get gps connected Aug 27 18:09:56 I tried everything else for 24 hours, charged up, took the battery out for 12 hours, etc, etc Aug 27 18:10:09 * lcuk stands on one leg facing north with the wind in his face ontop of a building with a clear view of the sky Aug 27 18:10:15 in the end I did the crazy "this'll never work" solution Aug 27 18:10:45 some kind of race condition according to nokia on bugzilla Aug 27 18:10:47 whatever works for ya i suppose Aug 27 18:11:04 nokia have the fridge as a recommended fix? Aug 27 18:11:30 anyone have a good site for themes for maemo on nokia n810? Aug 27 18:11:48 maybe it does prefer to be in a cold environment - like being back at nokia home Aug 27 18:12:11 mavhc, where are you Aug 27 18:12:16 cyrus__ there is no good site for themes look around garage and itT is best I can say Aug 27 18:12:22 k Aug 27 18:12:27 perhaps it's programmed not to start if the temp is too high or something. UK Aug 27 18:12:42 lol - ok i can rule out extreme temps Aug 27 18:12:48 I have a few on a garage there are a few on maemo.org also Aug 27 18:13:22 mavhc, it was noticeably hot. not too much. less than the hot it is when it's turned on, but more than it uses to be Aug 27 18:13:41 anyway, in what kind of bag did you leave it? Aug 27 18:14:08 just a sealed plastic bag to stop condensation Aug 27 18:15:28 http://blog.homac.de/?p=58 Aug 27 18:15:46 seems to be a new hardware thing, so shouldn't be an n770 problem Aug 27 18:15:49 also, is it possible to have multiple desktops with a pager with maemo Aug 27 18:16:59 my 770 I find that if you press the on/off button repeatedly followed by a final long press wakes the device up!! Also in my experience (on the 770) re-flashing the operating system can completely cure this problem. M Aug 27 18:17:07 (it is a comment on a blog) Aug 27 18:17:11 didn't worked Aug 27 18:19:45 Jaffa, I don't think he's posted them anywhere, but I'm sure he'll toss them your way (or post them) if you ask. Aug 27 18:21:13 * GeneralAntilles sighs. http://slexy.org/view/s212RbvWlu Aug 27 18:21:44 GeneralAntilles, LMAO Aug 27 18:21:48 GeneralAntilles, who sent that ? Aug 27 18:22:00 Some itT noob Aug 27 18:22:07 I get PMs like that rather frequently. Aug 27 18:22:27 as a General you should delgate Aug 27 18:22:55 I'm going to forward them all to geneven. Aug 27 18:23:12 GA just tell him to go search :) Aug 27 18:24:47 The new mailing lists forums are available Aug 27 18:24:50 Not in love with the layout Aug 27 18:26:27 GeneralAntilles, answer something along the lines "This is Lieutenant Konstam. General Antilles can not answer this Private Message at the moment, but he will be advised you have tried to get in touch with him. Thank you for contacting the United States Army. For the record, this is communication AD2748B80Y. Discussion terminated" Aug 27 18:30:27 "Emma t'es belle et ma copine elle t'aime pas, Emma t'es bonne et ma pile va bientot claquer, Emma t'es froide comme le carrelage de mes WC, Emma t'es vraiment 1000 fois plus belle que Tara" Aug 27 18:32:13 I have an inheritance-related destructor problem Aug 27 18:32:25 Mikho, go for it Aug 27 18:32:30 Mikho, C++ ? Aug 27 18:32:32 I'm just gonna ignore it, and may roll around to replying with a google search if I'm feeling generous. Aug 27 18:32:43 I know for a fact that particular topic has been covered quite frequently on itT. Aug 27 18:32:54 In C++. Lets say I have classes A and B, where A is the base and B is derived from A Aug 27 18:33:36 B has a virtual destructor and some virtual abstract functions Aug 27 18:33:41 GA you need to learn to look stupid on the forums so people stop asking you questioins Aug 27 18:33:51 Mikho, as long as you agive me 20% of your will, ill cure your inheritence problem Aug 27 18:34:08 evenin crashanddie Aug 27 18:34:19 GeneralAntilles, I think andrewfblack is right, you should get your inspiration from lcuk Aug 27 18:34:24 let's say a B object is about to die, and has finished running the B destructor Aug 27 18:34:32 GA: Unfortunately, this is partly the reason why people see Linux people as "arrogant" and unwilling to help. They expect that someone is gonna spoon-feed them everything. Aug 27 18:34:34 .|.. Aug 27 18:34:48 lcuk, <3 Aug 27 18:34:53 evening lcuk :) Aug 27 18:34:59 * lcuk has alpha blended goodness Aug 27 18:35:01 And sometimes, they just hit you on a plain unlucky day when too many people like that has already ruined your helpfulness :) Aug 27 18:35:08 Mikho, ok, and, what's the problem ? Aug 27 18:35:21 rm_you, ping. Aug 27 18:35:44 A has some code to unregister the class from a database in another thread Aug 27 18:36:02 Mikho, keep going, you've nearly explained the whole problem Aug 27 18:36:37 are you just a really slow typist or are you thinking this up as you go? :P Aug 27 18:36:59 Veggen, that's most days these days. :( Aug 27 18:37:27 baaba, if he's that slow, I wouldn't want to hire him a C++ coder :P Aug 27 18:37:36 s/a/as a/ Aug 27 18:37:36 crashanddie meant: bas aaba, if he's that slow, I wouldn't want to hire him a C++ coder :P Aug 27 18:37:40 FUCK Aug 27 18:37:46 haha Aug 27 18:38:18 GeneralAntilles I get half your rejects I think. I get a few PMs a week with something like I have a question I didn't was to ask in open forum becuae I did't want to be told to just search for it Aug 27 18:38:34 I need to setup a shortcut for osso-software-version-rx*4 Aug 27 18:38:38 let's say, before destructor A has completed, what happens if another thread uses some of the virtual abstract functions presented in class A, but defined in class B? Aug 27 18:38:40 i hope you told them to just search for it Aug 27 18:38:41 I type it way too much and it's way too damn long. Aug 27 18:38:48 lcuk, I haven't told them anything. Aug 27 18:38:48 sorry, this is complicated Aug 27 18:38:52 Mikho, nasal demons Aug 27 18:39:26 lcuk well that would defeat my arguments about telling people to just search. I just delete the stupid one :) Aug 27 18:39:41 andrew: It's ok to say that you have searched for it, and that it told me to do this and that, but I didn't understand. That's constructive criticism on documentation. Aug 27 18:39:49 I'd like to know if the functions in class B are available for running even though the destructor has completed for that class Aug 27 18:39:59 Mikho, no; as i said, you get nasal demons Aug 27 18:40:13 that is to say, undefined behavior Aug 27 18:40:25 Veggen, whenever the topic comes up, I ask that people mentioned whether they've tried to search and failed, or searched and found something they didn't understand. Aug 27 18:40:31 THEN I have the patience to help. Aug 27 18:40:32 hmmf. Someone hit me. I'm conteplating writing something in mono. Aug 27 18:40:38 Because they've put forward some effort to match mine. Aug 27 18:40:43 Mikho, if you throw your food into a bin is it wise to dive back in to carry on eating? Aug 27 18:40:46 ~smack Veggen Aug 27 18:40:46 which means the implementation is free to do anything, including making demons fly out of your nose Aug 27 18:40:47 * infobot smacks Veggen upside the head. Aug 27 18:40:51 GA: exactly. Aug 27 18:41:07 what= Aug 27 18:41:08 ? Aug 27 18:41:23 Mikho, semaphores will solve that problem, and most of the time, you're going to get a segfault Aug 27 18:41:23 veggen, nothing wrong with mono - which color though, black/white or green/black? Aug 27 18:41:33 Mikho, well, hopefully you're going to get a segfault, actually Aug 27 18:41:38 ok. Reason I want mono, is that it's an f-spot plugin. I want a plugin that interfaces to my scout-groups publishing system and uploads pictures, marked with the correct event etc... Aug 27 18:41:41 Mikho, the c++ standard has a number of things that it defines no semantics for, which are denoted as "undefined behavior" Aug 27 18:41:47 MikaT, dont touch things that have been destroyed Aug 27 18:41:49 Mikho, such as dereferencing a null pointer Aug 27 18:41:56 and f-spot is written in mono, so that's of course the case for plugins too. Aug 27 18:42:15 Mikho, in these cases your c++ implementation is free to cause anything at all to happen and still be standard Aug 27 18:42:30 I mean, won't all memory get freed only after all destructors have completed? Aug 27 18:42:35 Mikho, but if you want the real explanation, destructors for a base class are called automatically in the reverse order of the constructors. That is, if the base class destructor isn't declared virtual Aug 27 18:42:51 there exists such plugins for f-spot, gallery2 etc. Just need to take one of them, I guess, and study as example... Aug 27 18:43:00 eh, for flickr, gallery2 etc. Aug 27 18:43:23 Mikho, sure, but the point is that there's no guarantee it'll ever work Aug 27 18:43:25 it _might_ work Aug 27 18:43:33 crashanddie, you know the physics view on liqbase -> it now works with all jpeg images and scales and moves and views with 50% alpha :) Aug 27 18:43:37 and its just as quick Aug 27 18:43:47 I was wondering if I could use mutexes to make the class A destructor wait until the other thread has finished doing stuff in class B methods Aug 27 18:44:08 but it's absolutely not guaranteed, and whether it works might change depending on among other things: the compiler used, compiler flags, whether there's a black cat on your windowpane, the alignment of the solar system etc Aug 27 18:44:25 Mikho, just stop killing your objects whilst you are using them Aug 27 18:44:31 in general making objects responsible for themselves like that is not a very good idea Aug 27 18:44:33 note to self, don't ctrl + x in x-chat Aug 27 18:44:42 you dont kill the maid until shes finished cleaning the room Aug 27 18:44:44 it creates very messy program logic Aug 27 18:44:52 as you're experiencing right now Aug 27 18:44:58 lol crash :P Aug 27 18:45:08 * lcuk repeats Aug 27 18:45:11 crashanddie, you know the physics view on liqbase -> it now works with all jpeg images and scales and moves and views with 50% alpha :) Aug 27 18:45:28 hmmm Aug 27 18:45:35 it would be very nice if I could remove references to an object in databases in other threads, by just deleting the object Aug 27 18:45:48 which word triggers you to close Aug 27 18:45:50 ok, really not used to this Aug 27 18:45:52 I wonder if there's a workaround Aug 27 18:46:30 well, usually I type something, and when someone talks to me, and I want to reply, I shift + home, ctrl + x, answer, then after answering, ctrl + v and keep writing what I was saying Aug 27 18:46:46 but now that I've fiddled with the keyboard settings, xchat closes on ctrl+x Aug 27 18:47:18 crashanddie, do you mean the order is different if the base class destructor is virtual= Aug 27 18:47:42 Mikho, your objects need to have clearly defined ownership; the owner manages all that Aug 27 18:48:06 the owner also removes the object from any such databases and _then_ destroys it Aug 27 18:48:51 Mikho, no, order of destruction is not different with virtual destructors Aug 27 18:48:53 well I guess that's how it's meant Aug 27 18:49:19 when you have a class with bases, the destructor of that class calls the destructors of its bases Aug 27 18:49:27 and they call the destructors of their bases etc Aug 27 18:49:57 what the virtual destructor part does, is exactly like with any virtual function - it finds the most derived implementation through a reference (or pointer) to base Aug 27 18:50:32 lcuk, sounds awesome, when are you going to release a sneak-peak ? Aug 27 18:50:55 baaba, in fact, order is different, because the base destructor isn't called Aug 27 18:51:00 well, I think most virtual functions don't call the base implementations... Aug 27 18:51:16 well no, that part is different :) Aug 27 18:51:23 but the lookup is the same as with any other virtual function Aug 27 18:51:29 in about 3 weeks fully - im getting the search finished (ive created a very nice recursive results pane). ill need some help in the run up though :) Aug 27 18:51:33 crashanddie, isn't called? Aug 27 18:51:37 ie beta testing ;) Aug 27 18:51:41 baaba, nope Aug 27 18:51:45 yes it is Aug 27 18:51:52 baaba, err Aug 27 18:52:00 every object including base sub-objects of other objects is destroyed Aug 27 18:52:21 cant someone just setup a tiny project with a few classes and cout's to prove each others case Aug 27 18:52:58 baaba, class A { public: A(); virtual ~A() = 0; }; class B : A { public: B(); ~B() }; //you're going to tell me ~A() is called ? Aug 27 18:53:18 crashanddie, no, because that will yield a linker error Aug 27 18:53:30 namely, A::~A() is not defined Aug 27 18:53:34 does this depend on whether you call delete Aobject or Bobject? Aug 27 18:54:01 if you have a virtual destructor in A, it doesn't; if you don't have a virtual destructor in A, it does Aug 27 18:54:28 and I believe an abstract virtual destructor must have a body Aug 27 18:54:29 crashanddie, however, if you add a definition then it will link and will be called Aug 27 18:54:33 Hi ! Aug 27 18:54:36 correct, it must Aug 27 18:54:48 baaba, you lost me there Aug 27 18:54:58 anyway Aug 27 18:54:59 * Khertan_at_home is building gnome-online-desktop ... a bit long Aug 27 18:55:15 * lcuk is building liqbase on his laptop Aug 27 18:55:17 Mikho, make your program thread-safe Aug 27 18:55:27 sigh, I guess I'll just have to resort to always remember to call unregister before delete Aug 27 18:55:27 End of story Aug 27 18:55:27 crashanddie, where exactly? Aug 27 18:55:30 i'll explain it Aug 27 18:55:35 lcuk: you don't build it anymore on your n810 ? Aug 27 18:55:37 because this is pretty damn crucial for understanding c++ Aug 27 18:55:48 baaba, lemme compile/test a few things Aug 27 18:55:49 yes, I'm working hard to make my program thread-safe Aug 27 18:55:51 Khertan_at_home, sorry, my mistake: im building it FOR my laptop Aug 27 18:55:57 ah :) Aug 27 18:56:01 crashanddie, look, in c++, every object has a lifetime Aug 27 18:56:08 crashanddie, a base sub-object is a _separate object_ Aug 27 18:56:19 when you have struct A {}; struct B : A {}; B b; Aug 27 18:56:23 b consists of two objects Aug 27 18:56:41 a separate object? Didn't know that one Aug 27 18:56:46 on the creation of 'b' two constructors will be run, and on its destruction two destructors will be run Aug 27 18:56:58 baaba, yes, I know, when instantiating B, it is of type A before becoming of type B Aug 27 18:57:18 nothing "becomes" in c++ Aug 27 18:57:28 where can i download a lot of jpegs from automatically Aug 27 18:57:48 lcuk, google images Aug 27 18:58:23 baaba, oh you bloody pedantic C++ nitpickers Aug 27 18:58:38 this is hardly pedantic nitpickery Aug 27 18:58:47 i mean jesus you have to know what happens when your destructors are run don't you? Aug 27 18:58:53 that's a pretty fundamental part of c++ Aug 27 18:59:21 * GeneralAntilles starts poking crashanddie and baaba with sharpened sticks. Aug 27 19:00:21 baaba, you're the one thinking I don't know what happens, now please go back playing with your lego bricks Aug 27 19:00:43 by claiming that the base destructor doesn't get run, you showed that you don't know what happens Aug 27 19:00:52 unless that was an intentional lie Aug 27 19:01:01 * sp3000 giggles Aug 27 19:01:50 I didn't mean this to get this serious :) Aug 27 19:02:46 Mikho, there's no telling what sort of craziness questions like that will spawn. ;) Aug 27 19:02:50 hrmm... now I wonder what operator delete does... Aug 27 19:03:14 operator delete is the memory deallocation function that is invoked by a delete-expression Aug 27 19:03:17 what's a destructor? what's an operator? Aug 27 19:03:19 maybe I could accomplish some pure C++ evil with it Aug 27 19:03:22 * Mousey ducks! Aug 27 19:03:48 Mousey: destructor is a bot; an operator controls it Aug 27 19:04:19 when you have P* p; /* ... */ delete p; it's roughly equivalent to: { /* destructor call: */ p->~P(); /* memory deallocation: */ operator delete(p); } Aug 27 19:04:51 they roam the countryside, harassing cattle and small rodents. Aug 27 19:04:54 (only roughly, because the lookup for the actual operator delete is a bit more complicated) Aug 27 19:05:25 argh, so I can't have a pre-destructor call associated with delete Aug 27 19:06:32 oh and of course, it first checks whether p is null, and does nothing if so :) Aug 27 19:08:56 so, am I right if I say nothing has been freed or deleted in the beginning of derived class destructor call, and the derived object's functions are still free to be called from other threads? Aug 27 19:09:55 any knows like resolve... a error with fonts and GTK on maemo? Aug 27 19:09:55 Unknown font: -adobe-times-bold-r-normal--*-%s0-*-*-p-*-iso8859-1 I'll use fixed Aug 27 19:10:40 Mikho, no Aug 27 19:11:05 I'm wrong? Aug 27 19:12:03 baaba, ok, I'm confused here. Trust me, I really am. I was pointing out that if you have class A; and class B : A;, and A * ptr = new B; you need to have virtual ~A, if you want ~B to be called. Aug 27 19:12:16 yeah you do Aug 27 19:12:21 Ok, then we're settled Aug 27 19:13:36 * moontiger reads Aug 27 19:13:53 really? Aug 27 19:14:31 well, you could do delete static_cast(ptr); and in that case you wouldn't need it :) Aug 27 19:14:35 oh right Aug 27 19:14:35 got it Aug 27 19:14:36 but delete ptr; would need it Aug 27 19:14:52 if ~A is not virtual it wont be over-ridden in B Aug 27 19:15:32 destructors don't behave like normal functions, but destructor lookup does behave like normal functions Aug 27 19:15:41 baaba, wouldnt the static cast technically break things? Aug 27 19:15:46 no Aug 27 19:16:01 oh wait i see Aug 27 19:16:02 baaba, did you mean "no, you're wrong, you can't call B's functions even if the destructor is only in the beginning of the call" or "no, nothing has been deleted yet, so you're free to do your stuff" Aug 27 19:16:03 in this case, it's known that the type of the object is B Aug 27 19:16:11 right Aug 27 19:16:13 Mikho, can't call Aug 27 19:16:25 and the destructor part you're interested in is in A which is common Aug 27 19:16:41 I can't see why not... Aug 27 19:16:59 Mikho, err, sorry, you're talking about the derived destructor Aug 27 19:17:03 yes Aug 27 19:17:12 during destruction .. hmm Aug 27 19:17:16 * moontiger shuts up and lets the conversation continue Aug 27 19:17:20 i'm not actually sure about that Aug 27 19:17:30 during construction, you _can_ call member functions (with some restrictions) Aug 27 19:17:38 but i'm not sure about destruction, let me check Aug 27 19:17:44 I thought about assaulting c++ coding principles by adding a separate cleaning function in every derived classes destructor Aug 27 19:18:02 that sounds kind of bad :) Aug 27 19:18:10 indeed >) Aug 27 19:18:14 :) Aug 27 19:18:17 mikho ... if you want to make the assault proper make the cleaner static :) Aug 27 19:18:33 really you should try to work it such that you have a clearly defined owner for the object Aug 27 19:18:46 which first removes it from any databases etc and then just destroys it Aug 27 19:19:00 objects should never own themselves Aug 27 19:19:05 it has an owner, but I'd like to have other threads calling its functions at times Aug 27 19:19:32 yeah but the point was that you can request the owner to remove and destroy the object Aug 27 19:19:46 and the owner first removes any referemces to it and then destroys it Aug 27 19:20:04 (and similarly for creation) Aug 27 19:20:08 *references Aug 27 19:20:23 hmm Aug 27 19:22:02 it'd be nice to just new and delete away objects, having a distant parent class arranging all the references to other threads Aug 27 19:22:27 no it wouldn't :P Aug 27 19:23:06 it's hassle to ask the owner for the objects, and ask again to destroy them Aug 27 19:23:17 oh well Aug 27 19:23:42 it's a hassle trying to reason about a program with messy semantics Aug 27 19:23:49 Hi everyone. I am building a Adobe Flex 3 application for a Maemo device but am running into performance problems. Does anyone know of way to access the Flash player outside of the web browser? Aug 27 19:27:44 Mikho, if your implimentation is messy you will run into problems such as you have - sit down and design the interface cleanly and in a thread safe manner using mutexes where required, or use a manager class to handle the object lifetimes Aug 27 19:28:42 ncurse should be the only one interface Aug 27 19:28:50 this way all is unified Aug 27 19:29:15 i prefer nurses Aug 27 19:29:22 I don't think it's that messy Aug 27 19:29:32 I prefer gypsies Aug 27 19:29:41 it would actually clean up the code pretty nice Aug 27 19:29:48 gypsies arent always clean Aug 27 19:29:52 true Aug 27 19:30:00 I make them shower first Aug 27 19:30:08 and make sure they use soap Aug 27 19:30:26 agreed, ok clean post-showered gypsies are on par with a nurse in uniform Aug 27 19:30:38 (or out of uniform) Aug 27 19:31:08 any more preconditions or alterations to this fantasy? Aug 27 19:32:18 yeah, the scrubs have to be free of vomit and blood Aug 27 19:32:31 and/or Aug 27 19:32:48 * moontiger laughs Aug 27 19:34:23 * Khertan_at_home have any success building gnome-online-desktop Aug 27 19:34:57 * Proteous to be asking Khertan_at_home speak ways of understanding you Aug 27 19:35:36 heh Aug 27 19:36:47 * Khertan_at_home ask to Proteous : gniéé ? Aug 27 19:37:41 http://live.gnome.org/OnlineDesktop Aug 27 19:39:19 where can I get subversion for diablo? Aug 27 19:40:19 ahh. from chinook extras Aug 27 19:47:30 hum ... it seems that Ubuntu ME will use modest ... Aug 27 19:51:17 Are they really? Aug 27 19:53:08 I use Ubuntu XP Aug 27 19:53:16 Ubuntu ME is so 1998 Aug 27 19:54:14 hahaha Aug 27 19:54:25 i cant believe they are going to use modest tho Aug 27 19:54:37 well maybe it will get some serious love and attention Aug 27 19:54:40 and get better Aug 27 19:54:41 :) Aug 27 19:55:54 'Ubuntu Me' sounds like asking for a kink Aug 27 19:56:45 don't worry, root access is disabled by default Aug 27 19:56:57 There's nothing wrong with Modest that can't be explained by immaturity. :) Aug 27 19:57:21 * yacoob wants magic pixie dust to sprinkle over ermining, and have it Ready And Without Bugs. Aug 27 19:57:28 yer, GeneralAntilles after you're first time you get ubuntu'd your modesty will be all gone Aug 27 20:00:07 GeneralAntilles, i know ... i give it a hrad time but i havent actually written a better email app so i have respect for the guys ... just find it immature as you say :) Aug 27 20:00:34 yacoob, what do u need it for? Aug 27 20:00:51 gpe-gcal two way sync Aug 27 20:01:05 ahhhhhh 2 way sync Aug 27 20:01:13 Well, immaturity and some over insistence on the "lightweight" side of things in some cases. Aug 27 20:01:13 are u tied to gpe-cal? Aug 27 20:01:55 * yacoob suddenly notices that gpe doesn't support alarmd, loses interest. Aug 27 20:02:33 yacoob, look at mcalendar by khertan ... and my lil mgcal (which is in early stages but useful) Aug 27 20:03:12 * lcuk has 3 desktop apps in fulltime use at work that he thinks will be on maemo soon Aug 27 20:03:29 lcuk, what are they? Aug 27 20:03:37 yacoob: just help to add support for it Aug 27 20:03:53 :-) Aug 27 20:04:25 flo_lap, I need some liquid time for this task, but I think it's doable 8) Aug 27 20:04:26 alarmd is nice, but not portable in any way Aug 27 20:04:56 tasks,whatareyoudoing,sched Aug 27 20:05:17 * lcuk wrote whatareyoudoing with a tablet in mind about 3 years ago.. Aug 27 20:05:17 yacoob: it should be quite easy indeed... the reason why we didn't do it is that gpe apps run on different devices as well but alarmd doesn't Aug 27 20:05:53 flo_lap, :) porting apps is annoying, im currently building liqbase for my laptop Aug 27 20:06:39 lcuk: depends on the apps - porting the gpe apps was quite easy Aug 27 20:06:43 :) Aug 27 20:07:07 yer, but like the alarmd thing, one of the pressure sensitive things is specifically maemo Aug 27 20:07:09 lcuk: Porting operating systems is real fun Aug 27 20:07:23 you win. Aug 27 20:07:28 :D Aug 27 20:08:16 the problem I have as a newcomer with large part of maemo software is that you're not exactly able to tell is the project... dead? will it be developed? how stable it is? Aug 27 20:08:26 ...wait a second, that's just like with majority of the software! :D Aug 27 20:09:01 yacoob, are you a linux n00b as well? Aug 27 20:09:11 or rather, linux-dev n00b Aug 27 20:09:17 the latter. Aug 27 20:09:36 I find much fun cracking a problem, but I lack the energy to actualy complete a project :) Aug 27 20:09:41 i basically started everything linux about 8 months ago.. Aug 27 20:10:14 which is very much a killer for anything that has gui and is supposed to be used by a wide audience :) Aug 27 20:10:22 and what you just said there is the reason i think why there are so many variations of the same program Aug 27 20:10:40 no1 knows enough about anyone elses api to integrate cleanly - its only when teams get together Aug 27 20:11:09 so... we should get a big boat, a drummer, and a couple of whips. Row faster! *crack* Aug 27 20:11:20 lcuk: saw you've done alpha - nice :) Aug 27 20:11:24 hi Aug 27 20:11:32 which is where communitiesw help :) Aug 27 20:12:07 lbt, it was really simple - if i do a full 800*480 char by char mapping its obviously slower than normal blits Aug 27 20:12:29 but if i do smaller sections its not noticable :) but because of the rendering technique anyway its not really teary Aug 27 20:12:35 it just slows down at the busy bits ;) Aug 27 20:13:05 lcuk: how is the lib going? Aug 27 20:13:10 i notice by the way that canola does tiny little alpha bits on its buttons ;) Aug 27 20:13:22 I really must checkout the code and go through it again - just been busy on other stuff Aug 27 20:13:29 yes, I caught that earlier Aug 27 20:13:30 keesj, its going quite nicely actually, i can do everything i could do with sketches with actual real images and files now Aug 27 20:13:52 ive started to build the classes for a user interface and so can create recursive kinetic lists and grids Aug 27 20:14:18 but im not telling you the other stuff :) Aug 27 20:14:21 flo_lap: alarmd isn't nice ! you can't list alarm Aug 27 20:14:36 if you lost the alarm cookie you can't cancel it ! Aug 27 20:14:42 this is stupid Aug 27 20:15:12 Khertan_at_home: uh, that's clever indeed :/ Aug 27 20:15:22 lbt, im almost tempted to simply throw an rgb front end on this and shove it bodily into sdl Aug 27 20:15:26 Khertan_at_home, taking advantage of you being here - what are your plans for mCalendar? Aug 27 20:15:29 well enjoy your secret :p Aug 27 20:15:51 lcuk, do it! Aug 27 20:15:56 keesj :) i cant talk about everything im showing at the summit you know Aug 27 20:16:04 Khertan_at_home: that's another disadvantage... we can;t fix it Aug 27 20:16:11 yacoob: make it the world most better calendar available on any mobile device ... :) Aug 27 20:16:14 GeneralAntilles, ill be talking to people at the summit Aug 27 20:16:16 cool , I plan to go there Aug 27 20:16:20 lcuk, I hate you. :( Aug 27 20:16:25 i know :D Aug 27 20:16:28 yacoob: :) Aug 27 20:17:08 Khertan_at_home, ...but seriously, what's up next? ui changes, adding functionality, caldav/ical support? Aug 27 20:17:13 my plan for mCalendar ... finishing syncing bug, render a bit better the gui, add a autosync feature Aug 27 20:17:21 ***WARNING SPOILERS*** Aug 27 20:17:24 and after that ... Aug 27 20:17:28 * Proteous averts his eyes Aug 27 20:17:31 maybe syncml ... Aug 27 20:17:39 Khertan_at_home, :) keep some stuff for the summit ;) Aug 27 20:17:46 i ll certainly not made caldav ... Aug 27 20:17:50 lcuk: héhé ... :) Aug 27 20:17:58 Khertan_at_home, why? Aug 27 20:18:08 yacoob: i don't like it :) Aug 27 20:18:29 has anyone seen my lighter? Aug 27 20:19:20 yacoob: a too complex thing to only do a calendar syncing ... and not really a good syncing protocol Aug 27 20:19:37 don't have a server or application that use it Aug 27 20:19:50 but why wanting to use caldav ? Aug 27 20:20:07 Khertan_at_home: OpenSync? Aug 27 20:20:08 it s mainly an iThings ? Aug 27 20:20:34 flo_lap: opensync is a server not a protocol :) Aug 27 20:20:56 and I agree, syncml would be nice. Aug 27 20:21:17 Khertan_at_home: its not really a server, but it has the syncing logic Aug 27 20:21:21 although I have no bloody idea how things talk to each other when you synchronize them. Aug 27 20:21:32 * Mousey seconds syncml Aug 27 20:21:35 (ie. which one is client, which one server :) Aug 27 20:21:55 to dig up on that - has anyone been using opensync on tablet for... well, anything sync-related? :) Aug 27 20:22:14 yacoob: syncml is only a part of the problem - it helps with the transport only Aug 27 20:23:38 yacoob: I'm waiting for a stable release, but my intention is to use it for MaemoSync. Aug 27 20:25:55 uname -a Aug 27 20:28:17 Khertan_at_home: wrong terminal ;) Aug 27 20:30:12 yep :) Aug 27 20:30:19 http://www.openmobilealliance.org/tech/affiliates/syncml/syncmlindex.html Aug 27 20:30:39 how does they hope to see it implemented everywhere with spec like this ! Aug 27 20:30:44 I installed kolab yesterday - FWIW :) Aug 27 20:30:59 and 404 everywhere Aug 27 20:37:49 how do i undefine something as a compile time option - ie a parameter to the compiler Aug 27 20:38:57 you mean !-DFRED Aug 27 20:39:37 ahhh yes i think so (since i use -DHELLO already - i didnt want to remove it from the line, just make sure its not on Aug 27 20:39:39 thanks Aug 27 20:39:59 err, it isn't "!" Aug 27 20:40:04 ahh lol Aug 27 20:40:08 I was trying to understand :) Aug 27 20:41:10 lbt ! you tease, ill just remove it but leave a comment in the makefile Aug 27 20:41:21 I don't know of any other way Aug 27 20:42:08 i should really setup things as a target but im just getting it working now Aug 27 20:42:29 hrw gave me some tips a while ago and im ready to impliment them now so i can get ready for the summit :) Aug 27 20:42:31 I got some fan mail about Shopper :D Aug 27 20:42:42 part of it involves me making sure i can build and use it on my laptop Aug 27 20:42:48 heh! Aug 27 20:42:52 "NO MOAR CHEESE!" Aug 27 20:43:00 hey now Aug 27 20:43:08 we now have Cheese two point zero Aug 27 20:43:14 ooo Aug 27 20:43:22 nice, is there a pre-defined bacon section Aug 27 20:43:24 indeed - extra stinky Aug 27 20:43:30 OK Aug 27 20:43:37 next release... Aug 27 20:43:40 :D Aug 27 20:44:01 smoked? Aug 27 20:44:24 i personally think it would be really cool to walk around astore with video camera running and build up a 3d model of the shopping centre (do some barcodes as you go around) Aug 27 20:44:32 bacon is bacon Aug 27 20:45:01 lbt, i hope you can get barcode into your system Aug 27 20:45:25 it's on the list Aug 27 20:45:33 :D a shopping list i hope Aug 27 20:45:42 a long list Aug 27 20:46:01 like me, ive spent god ages building up a toolkit Aug 27 20:46:27 -god (was gonna put god knows how long but i know to the day..) Aug 27 20:46:38 eek just found a bug - I don't escape/cleanse my XML Aug 27 20:46:55 lcuk: upload lots of the frames to photosynth type thing Aug 27 20:46:56 yep - it says "FIXME" Aug 27 20:46:59 alright guys, lets hack the database Aug 27 20:47:40 mavhc, yer the alog should work better with a movie than images - you KNOW its a sequence and can look for similarities in time Aug 27 20:48:08 alog? Aug 27 20:48:16 i dont even know what that means myself Aug 27 20:48:46 lcuk: The technology is all well-understood, but doing it in real time on a tablet is pretty infeasible. Aug 27 20:49:08 to the cloud! Aug 27 20:49:26 derf, never said it would work, the only reason why i wanna do it with the tablet is barcode reading along the way Aug 27 20:49:39 record the movie and scan as you go along Aug 27 20:49:51 bring it home and produce a full map with products when you get home Aug 27 20:49:52 can't do it without an accelerometer Aug 27 20:50:01 Yeah, if you want to build the model later on a PC with a powerful GPU or two, that's possible. Aug 27 20:50:03 for reasons too technical to go into here Aug 27 20:50:09 It's a lot of work, though. Aug 27 20:50:18 sure you can - they have been doing it with crime scene reconstruction for years Aug 27 20:50:37 yer derf, but photosynth type programs are becoming common for home users Aug 27 20:50:49 we already stitch photos together - this is just an extension of that Aug 27 20:50:54 lcuk: Sure... because someone's done a lot of work to write the software. Aug 27 20:51:10 thats the way we roll :) open source ftw Aug 27 20:51:26 I just saw wargames2 with the g/f Aug 27 20:51:34 Many of the pieces are in vxl... but by no means everything you need. Aug 27 20:51:43 talk about bad sequels... that one should go out the window Aug 27 20:52:09 derf, was just a pie in the sky idea :) something may come of it, or nothing may come of it Aug 27 20:52:55 someone might come along with enough talent and passion to want to build it - it might already be being done now in another irc channel Aug 27 20:53:41 I know basically _how_ to do it. Aug 27 20:53:48 But I've got enough on my plate. Aug 27 20:54:15 lcuk: add 'time' to the requirements ;) Aug 27 20:54:17 lol :D Aug 27 20:54:29 good point Aug 27 20:56:12 * GeneralAntilles is playing The Force Unleashed demo. Aug 27 20:57:24 we should play Urban Terror Aug 27 20:57:44 Start with basic feature point detection, track features across frames, build up homography and as the baseline gets large enough fundamental matrix projection models, Link the fundamental matrices with trifocal tensors, triangulate to get 3-d homogeneous points, apply one of the standard metric calibration techniques to back out the projective ambiguity, look for overlapping paths, do bundle adjustment... Aug 27 20:58:04 * Stskeeps takes away derf's brain implant Aug 27 20:58:51 :-) Aug 27 20:58:52 * lbt admires Stskeeps' remote surgery skillz Aug 27 20:59:24 derf :) what do you do for a living? Aug 27 20:59:49 I work for a defense contractor. Aug 27 20:59:53 * lbt was impressed with derf until he screwed up on the the trifocal tensors... newbie error. Aug 27 21:01:02 if you were actually talking face to face, would you have been hand waving whilst you described that? Aug 27 21:01:14 No. I actually know how to do all of that. Aug 27 21:01:28 I've been playing Urban Terror since it came out Aug 27 21:01:33 love that game Aug 27 21:01:53 Trifocal tensors are vastly superior to fundamental matrices because you can get pointwise correspondences between 3 frames, whereas a fundamental matrix only gives you correspondence between a point and an epipolar line. Aug 27 21:02:02 derf, i meant to help with the explanation like a conductor? Aug 27 21:02:35 That ambiguity mean the correspondences used to estimate fundamental matrices have far more outliers. Aug 27 21:03:06 Even after applying a directed search on the initial estimate returned by RANSAC (or MLESAC or whatever the favoriate variant of the day is). Aug 27 21:03:15 * lcuk wouldv just tracked similar color patterns Aug 27 21:03:25 That's the interest point detection part. Aug 27 21:03:51 yer, we brushed over it when looking at the barcodes Aug 27 21:04:04 You want specifically color patterns whose position can be reliably estimated in two dimensions (points on flat homogeneous regions or edges are no good). Aug 27 21:04:07 simon has a much better understanding of the math :) Aug 27 21:04:33 And you want to describe them in a way that is invariant to some geometric distortion (similarity transforms are usually good enough) as well as lighting and contrast. Aug 27 21:04:46 but since in a shopping centre youi will get blocks of similar color it helps somewhat,though wouldnt be of use in a generic environment Aug 27 21:04:48 Because of course your camera's exposure is going to be changing constantly while filming. Aug 27 21:05:03 I have a question: How do you make the GUI working with SDK? Aug 27 21:05:45 derf, and with the 8x0 the camera changes randomly anyway - the chroma channels are so noisey (though if you can desaturate them it helps) Aug 27 21:06:02 If you actually build an accurate model of the camera you can back out physically accurate colors with a high dynamic range, but most people just try to blend away the variations. Aug 27 21:06:29 thats because the original colors look "wrong" on a computer screen Aug 27 21:06:42 Dealing with vingetting and everything else has always seemed like more work than it was worth. Aug 27 21:07:14 so do you work with images in the daytime, or general engineering with this as a sidetrought Aug 27 21:07:41 lcuk: It's because the camera is probably doing auto-exposure adjustments, because the spectral response is not uniform across the field of view (due to differences in the edges caused by the optics), etc. Aug 27 21:08:09 This is one of the fields I do research in. Aug 27 21:08:24 is this rarer if you use a normal camera with flash vs running video in low light Aug 27 21:09:13 ie: if i took a series of images along the same path as a movie, simply because the lighting is better would cause it to be better quality (now i write it its obvious) Aug 27 21:09:35 have you lot started doing the extrapolation movies from google tracking cars yet? Aug 27 21:11:59 hmmm, x11 over ssh - im using putty. if i run my program it wont run because it cant get x11 screen. but if i run it from a local console on the laptop itself it works Aug 27 21:13:14 lcuk, there might be plenty of reasons, starting with X11Forwarding off on one of the ends Aug 27 21:13:31 i want to run it on the laptops screen Aug 27 21:13:34 not forwarding Aug 27 21:13:47 im sat infront of desktop with laptop at the side of me Aug 27 21:13:53 Anyone here running leopard? I'm trying to get usbnet working and I'm having no luck. Aug 27 21:14:11 lcuk, you ssh to box foo, you want to run x11 app on foo, and have it display its windows on the machine you sshed from? Aug 27 21:14:27 yes Aug 27 21:14:42 no Aug 27 21:14:56 lcuks, agree on one of the options :D Aug 27 21:15:07 code and app are stored on laptop. i want to compile and run directly on there. my windows desktop has putty, ive connected from there into the laptop Aug 27 21:15:42 i want to execture the binary from my desktop window and have console stuff float up there, but the actual app running on the laptop Aug 27 21:15:45 Where do you want the windows to show up? Aug 27 21:15:55 on the laptop Aug 27 21:15:56 You'll have to set your DISPLAY variable appropriately Aug 27 21:16:04 ahhha Aug 27 21:16:30 * lcuk hunts Aug 27 21:16:32 I /believe/ that is all it takes. Aug 27 21:16:33 thanks Grackle_ Aug 27 21:16:40 Gracktop Aug 27 21:16:45 Heh, well, thank me when it works. >.> Aug 27 21:16:48 yeah. Try export DISPLAY=:0 Aug 27 21:17:11 or localhost:0 Aug 27 21:18:16 DISPLAY variable points to a running x11 server, if it's on the same machine, you only need to specify display number. Which is usually 0. Aug 27 21:18:49 The xserver might not let you in, if that's the case run either 'xhost +localhost' in xterm on your x11 session, or xauth in your ssh. Aug 27 21:33:28 Gracktop, yacoob bleugh, its not letting me in but ill just move the laptop itself and run from there, im not wastin time on it. thanks for suggestions it is a permissions thing cos im a normal user - ill sort it when i get annoyed again ;) Aug 27 21:33:53 hah okay Aug 27 21:35:04 * lcuk copies n saves the notes tho Aug 27 21:36:46 lcuk, try 'xhost +' :) Aug 27 21:36:52 it disables auth alltogether Aug 27 21:37:15 root@gary-laptop:/home/gary/Documents/liqbase_www_jpeg# xhost + Aug 27 21:37:15 No protocol specified Aug 27 21:37:15 xhost: unable to open display ":0.0" Aug 27 21:37:18 (which is a bit of a security risk, because someone else can connect to your x11 session and display, say, 'enter your password' dialog) Aug 27 21:37:24 ah, not as a root. Aug 27 21:37:43 if you act as a root, you have the same problem :) Aug 27 21:38:00 just launch a terminal in your x11 session, and input it from there. Aug 27 21:38:25 no, i sudo su'ed to see if that was why xhost was having problems Aug 27 21:38:35 ok Aug 27 21:38:35 that won't help :) Aug 27 21:40:18 no, i got told everything was disabled, lemme just try again Aug 27 21:41:08 no Aug 27 21:41:33 ahh but now that might be no export DISPLAY.. Aug 27 21:42:12 \o/ Aug 27 21:42:27 i now get as far as the segmentation fault \o/ w000t Aug 27 21:42:48 * lcuk goes n fixes that Aug 27 21:42:57 thank you.. Aug 27 21:48:01 'night all Aug 27 21:51:35 gnite lbt Aug 27 21:54:33 holy flock!!! liqbase looks amazing on my laptop :D Aug 27 21:55:14 hi Aug 27 21:57:34 i have send my firefox via X forwarding to my n770 running OS2008. first: it works ;) second: if i click on a text field the keyboard doesnt popup. i guess its because OS2008 cant know when to popup the keyboard on a non-hildon app. but can i start the keyboard manuell somehow? some shell command? Aug 27 21:58:35 lcuk: erm... not to be obtuse, but what is libqbase? Aug 27 21:58:59 easiest place to start :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI Aug 27 21:59:20 argh... ntfs corrupted Aug 27 21:59:32 isnt that an oxymoron Aug 27 21:59:47 chkdsk kinda fixed it though Aug 27 22:01:43 lcuk: NICE. Aug 27 22:02:04 :) Aug 27 22:02:13 lcuk: you wrote this entirely yourself? Aug 27 22:02:15 that was a couple of months ago Aug 27 22:02:18 yes Aug 27 22:02:22 Nicely done. Aug 27 22:02:28 lcuk: is there a git archive somewhere for it? Aug 27 22:02:45 ive added image blitting support (with new fresh alpha test blending) and camera support and ive been hacking away at a whole widget set Aug 27 22:02:55 lcuk: VERY nice. Aug 27 22:03:12 texel, there is an older version parked in the garage Aug 27 22:03:17 Heh Aug 27 22:03:21 Okay, I'll have a look, then. Aug 27 22:03:32 I take it this is a maemo-specific app? Aug 27 22:03:39 see how you get on with that, and if you are interested ill let you know which bits have gone Aug 27 22:04:07 its been compiled for a laptop in the past by kotzcarny but im just doing it myself now to see a few things Aug 27 22:04:27 * texel` nods Aug 27 22:05:47 texel, the youtube video links to an itT thread which has info on running the playtest version and hints about setting it up and stuff Aug 27 22:05:54 just give me a shout if you need a hand with anything Aug 27 22:06:09 kotczarny? 8) Aug 27 22:06:32 shit, have i typoed him again Aug 27 22:06:57 lcuk: very interesting idea for usingt he Xv extension. Aug 27 22:07:09 lcuk: So you're essentially using the DSP side of things for blitting. =o) Aug 27 22:07:14 it was the only thing i could do :$ Aug 27 22:07:19 no, its all cpu for now Aug 27 22:07:20 it's just funny, I didn't know there's another Polish person here :D Aug 27 22:07:34 lcuk: Ahh. Okay, that makes a bit more info. Aug 27 22:07:39 s/info/sense/ Aug 27 22:07:40 lcuk: you could have used the framebuffer and saved one extra blit :) Aug 27 22:07:40 * lcuk was not spending £350 on something that went slower than a .net pda Aug 27 22:07:40 (this means 'black cat') Aug 27 22:07:41 texel` meant: lcuk: Ahh. Okay, that makes a bit more sense. Aug 27 22:07:54 jott, but then i wouldnbt have it on my laptop right now :) Aug 27 22:08:31 lcuk: with some portability considerations, why not? it has a framebuffer too :) Aug 27 22:08:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GdCoywl6_c hmmm nice n800 case :) Aug 27 22:08:59 jott, absolutely - let me get these out of the way and if i feel in the slightest restricted ill do what i can :) Aug 27 22:09:10 was just thinking you were quiet jott :) Aug 27 22:09:25 i followed up on the blending Aug 27 22:09:26 ah just passed by and needed a little rant :P Aug 27 22:09:56 aye! show it to us :) Aug 27 22:09:57 i treat each layer as greyscale (barring a tweak for UV) and it works a treat Aug 27 22:10:26 do you support color jpegs in the meantime? Aug 27 22:10:38 or are they still shown in grayscale? Aug 27 22:10:42 ill send it over when ive done some testing and made the functions actual - i just replaced the generic image blit with imageblit+alpha to see how much of a slowdown i got Aug 27 22:10:46 no full color Aug 27 22:10:49 nice Aug 27 22:11:00 each plane is simply treated as a 256bit plane Aug 27 22:11:06 8bit Aug 27 22:11:07 ffs Aug 27 22:11:09 256color Aug 27 22:11:24 * lcuk has liqbase in BIGGGGGGGGGG next to him on laptop Aug 27 22:11:43 ill have to put it over the other side of the room for correct dpi Aug 27 22:29:27 well, matchbox-keyboard looks good when spawned remote Aug 27 22:39:48 jott, do you think i should try liqbase p2p Aug 27 22:40:12 i have been looking for a server machine - now its my code and it can act as both :) Aug 27 22:40:19 I want to see Freenode ban you for gibberish spam Aug 27 22:40:42 sorry GeneralAntilles :) im quite happy Aug 27 22:41:15 Hm... What package should I install for terminal emulator? Aug 27 22:41:28 theres a term on 2008 Aug 27 22:41:43 It doesn't exust under "utilities" on my SDK... Aug 27 22:42:25 what? inside the emulated device in xepyhr? Aug 27 22:42:34 mhm Aug 27 22:55:29 lcuk: i would at least not rely on internet connectivity. so either a local server or p2p would be good. p2p should be easier for an enduser. Aug 27 22:56:22 ooooOOOOOooooohhhhh http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=218327&postcount=18 Aug 27 22:56:45 jott i was thinking specifically for at the summit with my local laptop hooked up to the display ;) Aug 27 23:22:00 lcuk, you going to the summit in berlin? Aug 27 23:22:30 moontiger yes, but i cant stop now Aug 27 23:22:40 :) Aug 27 23:22:52 moontiger: will you be there? Aug 27 23:22:59 * jott will come too Aug 27 23:23:17 im in san francisco until december so i cant :( Aug 27 23:30:24 I live close to SF Aug 27 23:31:04 1 Aug 27 23:32:12 2 Aug 27 23:32:19 3 Aug 27 23:32:28 5 Aug 27 23:34:44 Proteous, where abouts? Aug 27 23:34:56 Sonoma Aug 27 23:35:12 ahhhhhhhh the wine country :) Aug 27 23:36:05 im in the castro in san fran Aug 27 23:36:06 not superclose, but within an hour Aug 27 23:36:06 heh, yeah Aug 27 23:36:08 fitting that I am currently working in the Napa office of MyWinesDirect.com Aug 27 23:36:09 :P Aug 27 23:36:20 ooooooooooooo nice :) Aug 27 23:36:36 i used to live in south africa ... in cape town ... lots of wines there too :) Aug 27 23:36:43 yeah Aug 27 23:37:09 so do you have a spill-proof case for your n810? ;) Aug 27 23:37:22 I enjoy the tons of beer microbrewerys around here more :) Aug 27 23:37:29 heh, no Aug 27 23:37:30 mmmmmmmmmmmm beer :) Aug 27 23:37:40 actualy I really need to pick up some screen protectors Aug 27 23:37:43 my fave beer in from seattle ... mac'n'jack Aug 27 23:37:51 now that I have a small scratch in my screen Aug 27 23:38:01 havn't heard of that Aug 27 23:38:14 only in seattle ... nice and hearty and good :) Aug 27 23:38:44 kind of an amber ale type thing Aug 27 23:40:09 I like a lot of Lagunitas beers Aug 27 23:52:35 ahhhh ive had those Aug 27 23:52:39 they are good too Aug 28 00:07:42 Why do people insist on putting "RFE:" in the summaries of bugs that are clearly marked as enhancements? :\ Aug 28 00:08:09 cos people dont read Aug 28 00:12:43 Man, how'd I miss this one? https://wiki.maemo.org/CFSONID Aug 28 00:12:51 Wish that person had logged in. Aug 28 00:14:03 Ahaha: https://wiki.maemo.org/Automatic_Muting_via_cron Aug 28 00:14:12 Anything that starts with those first two sections HAS to be deleted. Aug 28 00:19:43 GeneralAntilles, is the wiki a paid job for you? Aug 28 00:19:51 Nope Aug 28 00:20:55 so you just try to keep things clean and neat for the love of it? Aug 28 00:21:29 Well, that, and the karma whoring. :P Aug 28 00:21:34 ahhhhhhhhhh ... and the karma does what exactly? Aug 28 00:21:46 Well, there's actually no karma from the wiki yet Aug 28 00:21:56 is the wiki a nokia thing? Aug 28 00:22:12 But karma is factored into who gets the device discount codes, who gets sponsorships, and who is eligible for maemo.org Community Council candidacy. Aug 28 00:22:18 The wiki is a maemo.org thing. Aug 28 00:22:24 there's just no karma plugin for it at the moment. Aug 28 00:22:37 and maeno.org isnt controlled by nokia? Aug 28 00:23:43 Not anymore Aug 28 00:23:52 That was one of the big points of the branding shakeup Aug 28 00:23:53 Hey guys, I'm just getting scratchbox set up and am getting an error on compiling that looks like this: /var/tmp/ccrKOgBw.s:16461: Error: selected processor does not support `pld [ip,#0]' -- any ideas? Aug 28 00:24:10 ~maemo-brand is https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand Aug 28 00:24:11 GeneralAntilles: okay Aug 28 00:24:24 Nokia wanted to use the Maemo trademark for themselves Aug 28 00:24:32 Websearching only revealed that several other people were having trouble with 'pld' on arm platforms, not many solutions =/ Aug 28 00:24:38 But it wasn't a well regulated or controlled trademark Aug 28 00:24:53 Now we have Maemo and maemo.org (much like Mozilla and mozilla.org) instead of just maemo. Aug 28 00:24:53 did maemo exist pre nokia? Aug 28 00:25:04 maemo.org is the community Aug 28 00:25:08 Nokia created Maemo Aug 28 00:25:18 Maemo is Nokia Aug 28 00:25:22 ahhhh i c Aug 28 00:27:04 how did u get the wiki job? Aug 28 00:27:49 .. Aug 28 00:28:03 https://wiki.maemo.org/%ED%95%9C%EA%B8%80 Aug 28 00:28:06 Anybody know what that is? Aug 28 00:29:24 Korean, I guess? Aug 28 00:29:24 Does anybody read Korean? :P Aug 28 00:29:25 moontiger, I'm just a volunteer Aug 28 00:29:25 The way any volunteer gets a job Aug 28 00:29:28 They step up and get to work. ;) Aug 28 00:29:54 slow wiki is slooow. Aug 28 00:30:02 GeneralAntilles: Seems to be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul Aug 28 00:30:17 There is a disturbance in the force... Aug 28 00:30:23 GeneralAntilles: pong? Aug 28 00:30:33 GeneralAntilles, what do you do for a paid job, if you dont mind me asking? Aug 28 00:31:57 * GeneralAntilles throws a ping-pong paddle at rm_you's face. Aug 28 00:31:57 moontiger, fulltime student at the moment. Aug 28 00:31:58 ShadowJK, yes its slow for me too today Aug 28 00:31:58 I usually work in a used bookstore back home during the summer, though. ;) Aug 28 00:31:58 Hrm, how much of this is still relevant in ICD2? Aug 28 00:31:58 https://wiki.maemo.org/Integrate_Bluetooth_networks_into_Connection_Manager Aug 28 00:32:00 GA is a student, yes? :P Aug 28 00:32:00 As are quite a few of us here <_< Aug 28 00:32:02 Honestly, I'd rather have an article detailing the various dummy connection packages (usbnet, PAN) Aug 28 00:32:10 rm_you is lag city, yes? Aug 28 00:33:10 heh, I was out Aug 28 00:33:16 and your message scrolled off Aug 28 00:33:26 all I know is that you messaged me, according to XChat <_< Aug 28 00:33:32 I don't even remember Aug 28 00:34:58 lol Aug 28 00:34:58 the wiki is very very slow right now for me Aug 28 00:34:58 students ahhhhh nice Aug 28 00:34:58 770 issue, maybe? Aug 28 00:34:58 Something else? Aug 28 00:34:58 Dunno Aug 28 00:34:58 i used to be a student Aug 28 00:34:58 :) Aug 28 00:34:58 The server upgrades were seemingly going to take place on Monday. . . . Aug 28 00:34:58 GeneralAntilles, that bluetooth stuff is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of date Aug 28 00:34:58 That seems to not be happening, though. Aug 28 00:34:58 moontiger, you want to update it? :P Aug 28 00:35:07 just need bluetooth PAN package and voila! Aug 28 00:35:07 i use it :) Aug 28 00:35:26 i will yes ... how do i do that? Aug 28 00:35:41 Login, click edit at the top. Aug 28 00:35:51 my garage login? Aug 28 00:35:52 Though it'll probably change again soon. Aug 28 00:35:58 * mgedmin gave up trying to set up PAN on Ubuntu Aug 28 00:36:10 I think i can actually login to wiki now :P Aug 28 00:36:10 yay Aug 28 00:36:18 Woo Aug 28 00:36:29 GeneralAntilles: my awemazing-tastic switch got here today :P happy Aug 28 00:36:44 Time to shuffle lots of big files around. Aug 28 00:36:51 24 port gigabit managed switch :P Aug 28 00:37:07 with rack mounting brackets :P Aug 28 00:37:10 I need to buy a rack Aug 28 01:06:27 GeneralAntilles, i edited that page ... let me know if what i did sucks :) Aug 28 01:09:11 Doesn't maemo-pan depend on the dummy network package? Aug 28 01:13:44 it says that and it says that that gets installed automatically Aug 28 01:13:48 its a dependency Aug 28 01:15:44 Anyway, yeah, the content is fine Aug 28 01:15:51 I just need to touch up the formatting a bit. Aug 28 01:15:57 I'm not sure if it's a "bad-thing(tm)," but as to my prior problem involving 'processor does not support pld,' I just set my CFLAGS to use -march=armv5te Aug 28 01:16:35 GeneralAntilles, i wont be in the least offended if you completely re-edit it ... if i can help at all let me know :) Aug 28 01:21:27 https://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PAN#Installing Aug 28 01:21:38 er, https://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PAN Aug 28 01:24:07 awesome! Aug 28 01:24:07 nite chan Aug 28 01:25:23 * GeneralAntilles puts cold water in lcuk's bed. Aug 28 01:29:31 I don't seem to be able to get my NIT to work in ethernet gadget mode :/ Aug 28 01:30:46 If it's in peripheral mode with g_ether loaded and g_file_storage unloaded, then the device does not show up on the host at all (when looking using lsusb) Aug 28 01:42:19 upgrading the firmware on my switch ^_^ Aug 28 01:52:31 GeneralAntilles, that looks very nice :) Aug 28 01:52:49 yeah, GeneralAntilles is quite the looker Aug 28 02:25:42 crashanddie, heh i meant the page :)~ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 28 02:59:56 2008