**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 11 02:59:57 2008 Sep 11 03:09:20 Thanks for the help with music on console! :) Love that program! Sep 11 03:19:33 looks like maemo.org gets more memory http://maemo.org/news/events/garage_maintenance/ Sep 11 03:23:23 Yeah, just the beginning for the server upgrades, thankfully. Sep 11 03:25:16 now it will remember to send you data you requested:) Sep 11 03:27:13 i got a free dinovo edge keyboard from work, i should see if it works with my n810 Sep 11 03:38:02 haha, super nerdy Sep 11 03:38:16 the dinovo edge works with the n819 Sep 11 03:38:19 n810 Sep 11 03:43:13 does anybody know the best way to get screen rotate working? Sep 11 03:45:32 moontiger: flash the patched kernel, install patched xomap install advanced backlight :) Sep 11 03:45:59 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=196034&postcount=194 should do it i guess just, don't install rotate-sb but adv-backlight instead. Sep 11 03:48:01 is that the rotate.zip thingy? Sep 11 03:48:06 yes. Sep 11 03:48:29 ok downloading that now Sep 11 03:48:38 does it wipe my tablet? Sep 11 03:48:44 no :) Sep 11 03:49:04 well you can never be 100% certain :P Sep 11 03:49:08 wow you guys who did this stuff rock socks ... i wish i knew enough to do this stuff :) Sep 11 03:49:30 eventually you will learn it, if you really want to :) Sep 11 03:50:05 i am a programmer for over 15yrs now ... asm, c, c++, python, etc ... just dont know linux enough yet Sep 11 03:50:19 well see, shouldn't be that hard to catch up. Sep 11 03:50:33 heh cool :) Sep 11 03:51:11 i can ssh in as root to my tablet to do the install yes? Sep 11 03:51:21 yes. Sep 11 03:51:48 awesome :) here goes... Sep 11 03:51:57 better connect the power before flashing, just to be sure :) Sep 11 03:53:21 ok will do ... and dpkg -i each package yes? Sep 11 03:54:48 yes. should do it. Sep 11 03:55:01 just leave out rotate-sb Sep 11 03:55:13 and install advanced-backlight if you have not yet :) Sep 11 03:55:30 jott: so my shirts came in today Sep 11 03:55:31 they look neat Sep 11 03:55:37 i should have made one for ABL Sep 11 03:55:40 sweet Sep 11 03:55:45 moo, all Sep 11 03:56:06 moo yoo too Sep 11 03:56:11 jott: you can have one if you want :P least i could do Sep 11 03:56:19 oh f**k i install sb rotate Sep 11 03:56:26 no worries. Sep 11 03:56:26 is that bad? Sep 11 03:56:36 apt-get remove rotate-sb Sep 11 03:56:39 hehe Sep 11 03:56:46 i dont need it? Sep 11 03:56:51 no panic :P Sep 11 03:56:52 no. it's just old and superseded by adv-backlight :) Sep 11 03:57:26 hehe wow that rocks Sep 11 03:57:34 so cool for reading web pages etc Sep 11 03:57:45 the bg image tiles weird ... is that fixable? Sep 11 03:58:00 not really. just set the background again when rotated. Sep 11 03:58:09 ahhhhhhhhhhh cool Sep 11 03:58:12 Get to patching the theme engine. Sep 11 03:58:12 (well it could be fixed at other places :) Sep 11 03:58:30 wow this is fricking awesome Sep 11 03:58:35 * moontiger smiles Sep 11 03:58:56 does the system send out an event when rotation happens that i can trap in mgcal? Sep 11 03:59:00 just make sure you use adv-backlight for extra awesomeness :) Sep 11 03:59:12 moontiger: uhm a resize event? :) Sep 11 03:59:32 (that would be the sane approach imho) Sep 11 03:59:38 jott ... really? i can handle that event in my home screen app? Sep 11 03:59:55 oh homescreen.. hmm. well should also resize/move :) Sep 11 04:00:01 cos id like to have 2 layouts ... one tall and skinny ... one short and fat Sep 11 04:00:08 ah. well. Sep 11 04:00:16 . Sep 11 04:00:18 then i could make my app rotate aware Sep 11 04:00:35 there is the possibility to use xrandr to get a notification. Sep 11 04:00:52 but i actually think it should be handled via the root window size. Sep 11 04:00:56 as this would be more generic. Sep 11 04:01:25 hmmmmmmm ok ... yes i see ... i could grab that event and check the window orientation with a simple math calc and adjust accordingly Sep 11 04:02:06 (applications should not really care about the orientation, more about the available screen size and adapt) Sep 11 04:02:06 schweet ... this is so cool Sep 11 04:03:15 oh wow .... now THATS how reading web pages should be :) Sep 11 04:03:40 do you think they'll add an accelerometer to a future version? Sep 11 04:03:58 not that unlikely, given they cost nearly nothing :) Sep 11 04:04:22 and it's trendy atm :) Sep 11 04:04:27 I hope it can be turned off, anyway. Sep 11 04:04:40 the iPhone's accelerometer is really irritating Sep 11 04:05:06 yeah well apple controls you, where as linux usually means you are in control :P Sep 11 04:05:06 i really cant believe how cool this is for some apps ... it makes a huge difference Sep 11 04:05:36 and its really cool having it manually switchable Sep 11 04:05:40 I like to freak my mother out by shaking the iPhone violently to get it to switch to landscape. Sep 11 04:06:17 so the little rotate icon is sb-rotate? Sep 11 04:06:20 moontiger: yeah, it really comes in handy sometimes. Sep 11 04:06:26 yes. Sep 11 04:06:26 Welcome to Newton in 1993 Sep 11 04:06:40 and i already have adv backlight so i can apt-get remove that? Sep 11 04:06:47 yep. Sep 11 04:06:52 schweet :) Sep 11 04:07:04 damn guys ... you rock Sep 11 04:07:07 * moontiger bows down Sep 11 04:08:19 "How the DoD learned to stop worrying and love open source" hehe (from ars) Sep 11 04:08:44 it wants to remove osso-software-version-rx44 ... is that ok? Sep 11 04:09:01 uh. what want's to remove it? Sep 11 04:09:26 apt-get remove rotate-sb-plugin complained and suggested apt-get -f install Sep 11 04:09:31 then it said it wanted to remove that Sep 11 04:09:38 ah that was probably beforehand. Sep 11 04:09:42 * jott is not sure if osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked is needed for something in that chain.. Sep 11 04:09:53 maybe you need to install the -unlocked version. Sep 11 04:10:01 GeneralAntilles: do you know for sure? :) Sep 11 04:10:03 Maybe the xserver Sep 11 04:10:12 I'm not sure what qwerty12 did to work around it. Sep 11 04:10:12 how do i do that? Sep 11 04:10:15 just let it remove it. Sep 11 04:10:22 ok Sep 11 04:10:22 it's not vital. Sep 11 04:10:25 erm Sep 11 04:10:29 then apt-get install osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked Sep 11 04:10:29 It's vital for SSU updates Sep 11 04:10:38 yes but not for a running system., Sep 11 04:10:38 and it's not available in diablo-1 last time I checked. Sep 11 04:10:50 gna. Sep 11 04:11:02 That may have changed Sep 11 04:11:13 * moontiger hesitates... Sep 11 04:11:56 Well, at worst, you apt-get install osso-software-version-rx44 to install the next SSU push. Sep 11 04:12:12 ok well it did it Sep 11 04:12:41 so what did i just remove with the osso thing? Sep 11 04:13:05 it's a meta package that contains references to all "base" packages with a fixed version number. Sep 11 04:13:07 the unlocked is in the repos Sep 11 04:13:24 osso-software-version-unlocked Sep 11 04:13:29 the -unlocked version does not have the restriction for fixed version numbers. Sep 11 04:13:40 it should be osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked Sep 11 04:13:48 (with rx44 in it for n810) Sep 11 04:13:51 thats not in there Sep 11 04:14:02 can i just re-install the locked one? Sep 11 04:14:11 now that i uninstalled the roate plugin Sep 11 04:14:45 the rotate plugin in unrelated to that.. Sep 11 04:14:59 right ... i just had to remove to be allowed to remove the plugin Sep 11 04:15:00 it's the xserver that makes trouble :/ Sep 11 04:15:10 rm_you! Sep 11 04:15:21 Can we [i]please[/i] change the name of that package. . . .? Sep 11 04:15:31 yes, because you installed several packages with dpkg, and the consistency check was then done by apt :) Sep 11 04:15:39 rm_you-super-dirty-hax Sep 11 04:15:39 right Sep 11 04:15:53 dpkg is one level lower :) Sep 11 04:16:00 what did i lose by losing the osso thing? Sep 11 04:16:01 so to speak. Sep 11 04:16:08 nothing for now. Sep 11 04:16:15 automatic SSU notifications Sep 11 04:16:21 but you might be in trouble when the next ssu comes out. Sep 11 04:16:24 the notifications only? Sep 11 04:16:44 no as i said, it's a meta package referring to all important base packages. Sep 11 04:16:58 ok so this is bad then? Sep 11 04:17:03 You _should_ be able to just apt-get install osso-software-version-rx44 when the next update is pushed. Sep 11 04:17:05 and nokia handles package changes (like new base packages) via this. Sep 11 04:17:06 No guarantees, though. Sep 11 04:17:25 worst case scenario is? Sep 11 04:17:50 Reflash if you do a badly-timed apt-get upgrade. Sep 11 04:18:00 eesh Sep 11 04:18:08 is there a fix for this anywhere? Sep 11 04:18:10 best bet is to install the -unlocked package. Sep 11 04:18:14 there should be. Sep 11 04:18:19 it's rather trivial. Sep 11 04:18:25 what do i do? Sep 11 04:18:29 osso-software-version-unlocked wont do anything. Sep 11 04:18:34 Wait until the next SSU push. Sep 11 04:18:48 i wonder why i see it in my apt list :P Sep 11 04:19:00 the unlocked 44? Sep 11 04:19:01 ah Sep 11 04:19:03 ok Sep 11 04:19:05 workaround: Sep 11 04:19:20 or wait..hmm Sep 11 04:19:49 GeneralAntilles: what would the next ssu push do? Sep 11 04:19:52 osso-software-version-unlocked is rm_you's super-dirty-hax package. Sep 11 04:20:05 The same thing the last SSU push did Sep 11 04:20:06 update the OS. Sep 11 04:20:24 and the rotate xserver? Sep 11 04:20:34 http://outpo.st/osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked_4.2008.30-2_armel.deb Sep 11 04:20:41 here you go. Sep 11 04:20:46 wow cool :) Sep 11 04:21:13 install that and im golden :) Sep 11 04:21:15 yes? Sep 11 04:21:38 yes should be. Sep 11 04:22:33 and we should poke nokia folks with a stick at the summit for the broken diablo-1 repository. Sep 11 04:23:50 it didnt install Sep 11 04:23:52 :( Sep 11 04:23:53 :( Sep 11 04:23:55 why? Sep 11 04:24:08 jott, I'm upgrading to cattle prods. Sep 11 04:24:22 version of flasher is wrong Sep 11 04:24:59 oh.. erm Sep 11 04:25:03 mmh Sep 11 04:25:30 pastebin? Sep 11 04:25:31 is that a dependency line thats wrong? Sep 11 04:25:39 pastebin? Sep 11 04:25:48 pastebin the output :) Sep 11 04:25:59 ~pastebin Sep 11 04:26:01 [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste Sep 11 04:26:16 Nokia-N810-23-14:/media/mmc1/Rotate# dpkg -i osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked_4.2008.30-2_armel.deb Sep 11 04:26:16 Selecting previously deselected package osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked. Sep 11 04:26:16 (Reading database ... 19490 files and directories currently installed.) Sep 11 04:26:16 Unpacking osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked (from osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked_4.2008.30-2_armel.deb) ... Sep 11 04:26:16 dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked: Sep 11 04:26:18 osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked depends on kernel-diablo-flasher (>= 2.6.21-200829maemo1); however: Sep 11 04:26:20 Version of kernel-diablo-flasher on system is 2.6.21-200823maemo3. Sep 11 04:26:22 dpkg: error processing osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked (--install): Sep 11 04:26:24 dependency problems - leaving unconfigured Sep 11 04:26:26 Errors were encountered while processing: Sep 11 04:26:28 osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked Sep 11 04:26:30 is that cool? Sep 11 04:26:32 hehe that was not pastebin :D, next time :) Sep 11 04:26:39 oooops Sep 11 04:26:41 sorry Sep 11 04:26:45 no worries. Sep 11 04:26:46 * moontiger looks at the bot Sep 11 04:27:23 mmmmh. Sep 11 04:27:43 * jott mumbles Sep 11 04:27:52 * moontiger takes notes... Sep 11 04:28:09 it could be all so easy if nokia did it "right" :/ Sep 11 04:28:26 ok.. Sep 11 04:28:39 * jott thinks.. Sep 11 04:28:50 If they had just kept it all in the freaking diablo/ repository. Sep 11 04:29:11 But, nooooo, we've gotta throw a fuckin' spanner in the works because we're Nokia and we can't _ever_ make _ANYTHING_ easy. Sep 11 04:29:12 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Sep 11 04:29:13 do i need to fix this right now or am i good ? Sep 11 04:29:20 but actually this time qwerty12 kernel package is to blame :) Sep 11 04:29:31 Nah, still Nokia's fault Sep 11 04:29:32 moontiger: well for now you are good. but you should fix it asap :) Sep 11 04:29:37 Since they haven't released the freaking sources. Sep 11 04:29:42 ok .... how do i fix it? Sep 11 04:29:42 indeedish Sep 11 04:29:57 moontiger: let me think of a clean way. Sep 11 04:30:08 ok cool ... thank you very much :) Sep 11 04:30:27 i guess a good bet would be to just bump the version of the kernel package :) Sep 11 04:30:56 this is like packaging ninja stuff :) Sep 11 04:31:08 yes, basically :) Sep 11 04:31:40 is it a version number change to make all the other stuff happy? Sep 11 04:32:23 yes. that should do the trick. Sep 11 04:33:06 ok well if you tell me how to do that i'll be happy to do it :) Sep 11 04:33:16 <---- not a packaging ninja :| Sep 11 04:33:36 * RST38h has found a weird thing Sep 11 04:33:52 RST38h: i live in the castro ... thats my everyday life Sep 11 04:34:05 N8x0 OMAP2 is happy to let you read from an unaligned memory address Sep 11 04:34:25 E70 with Symbian and OMAP1 will coredump. Sep 11 04:34:33 prolly does two cycles tho Sep 11 04:34:44 It does one and shifts Sep 11 04:34:54 hmmmmmm really? smart processor Sep 11 04:35:01 This is how an ARM without extra hardware usually does it Sep 11 04:35:12 moontiger: http://outpo.st/kernel-diablo-flasher_2.6.21-200829maemo1_all.modfied.deb Sep 11 04:35:17 Well, you still get semi-garbage, but it is correctly shifted Sep 11 04:35:25 moontiger: just install this, and then the -unlocked package again. Sep 11 04:35:42 ok will do ... brb Sep 11 04:37:51 jott: you would be a 100% bona-fide genius i would say :) Sep 11 04:37:52 thank you Sep 11 04:39:56 moontiger: you are welcome :) Sep 11 04:40:13 when i move back to europe i will buy you a beer :) Sep 11 04:40:22 :) Sep 11 04:43:01 assuming of course you are near madrid or berlin :) Sep 11 04:44:43 i have to get some sleep now ... thanks for everything guys Sep 11 04:44:50 nn :) Sep 11 04:56:07 Heh, maemo.org "karma" is certainly doing strange things lately Sep 11 04:57:03 8 products = 273 ? Sep 11 04:57:58 RST38h: you should click on some of the hearts. instant karma guaranteed :P Sep 11 04:58:46 Doesn't work for me Sep 11 04:58:52 I click but nothing happens Sep 11 04:59:07 Besides, more inclined to click on hands =) Sep 11 04:59:11 heh Sep 11 04:59:26 does this give karma too? :) Sep 11 04:59:38 probably subtracts :) Sep 11 05:00:03 anyway. maybe karma gets some serious love when the server upgrade is complete. :) Sep 11 05:00:15 i guess the summit will be a good place to discuss some details. Sep 11 05:02:34 hrmrm Sep 11 05:02:42 yeah... super dirty -unlocked hax :P Sep 11 05:02:48 GeneralAntilles: IT will WORK, btw Sep 11 05:03:10 as the .deb for -unlocked is INCLUDED in the -unlocked package. it doesn't rely on repos Sep 11 05:03:24 ah. Sep 11 05:03:34 good to know :) Sep 11 05:04:15 we should really finally make a one-click installer for rotation support. Sep 11 05:06:20 jott: I would rather prefer *other* more important parts get some serious love =) Sep 11 05:07:31 yeah Sep 11 05:07:34 i have it 90% done Sep 11 05:07:38 on my buildbox Sep 11 05:07:41 yeah well indeed. i have a deep hate relationship to the karma system but if it will be used for some "serious" things i would rather have it to be at least remotely sane. Sep 11 05:07:44 i just kind of... forgot about it Sep 11 05:08:28 RST38h: which part do you want to get some serious love? :D Sep 11 05:08:49 (hehe reading this, it can be misinterpreted) Sep 11 05:10:28 rm_you: btw your osso-software-unlocked contains *old* versions of the meta packages :P Sep 11 05:10:34 yeah Sep 11 05:10:39 i kinda thought so Sep 11 05:10:41 not that good :) Sep 11 05:10:44 i need to fix that Sep 11 05:10:54 got links to the new ones? :P Sep 11 05:11:16 jott: any part Sep 11 05:11:37 RST38h: you little pervert :P Sep 11 05:11:42 jott: the planet, download stats (which aare synced MANUALLY right now), download page, etc Sep 11 05:12:00 download stats are manual?! >_> Sep 11 05:12:11 that might explain why they would randomly DOUBLE in like a day Sep 11 05:12:20 yeah luckily x-fade is back so hopefully we see some movement. Sep 11 05:12:27 ah well time for sl33p Sep 11 05:12:39 jott: poke me tomorrow about -unlocked Sep 11 05:12:50 yeah will try to remember :) Sep 11 05:12:59 me too, but will fail :P Sep 11 05:13:51 night Sep 11 05:14:15 rm_you: enjoy: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3629 Sep 11 05:17:14 * jott imagines x-fade with a tally sheet :D Sep 11 05:54:47 Morning! Sep 11 06:56:05 Morning Sep 11 06:56:30 morning Sep 11 07:15:54 X-Fade, ping. Sep 11 07:16:02 GeneralAntilles: Pong Sep 11 07:16:20 Any comments on the feasibility of a council.maemo.org? Sep 11 07:16:33 GeneralAntilles: Pointing to? Sep 11 07:16:37 A wiki orso? Sep 11 07:17:02 Well, after the little issue with lots of people complaining about not being able to find important community discussions. Sep 11 07:17:16 One of the ideas put forward was to have a council blog Sep 11 07:17:24 GeneralAntilles: Isn't that what we plan for /community ? Sep 11 07:17:57 Hrm, I'm not really following the /community plans closely. Sep 11 07:18:29 Well, anyway, the council will likely need a blog of somesort. Sep 11 07:18:31 Well, at least we wanted to show the active threads there etc.. Sep 11 07:18:36 Yep. Sep 11 07:19:06 Personally, I think it'd be a nice touch to have an *.maemo.org for it. Sep 11 07:20:21 I guess we've got News Sep 11 07:20:36 Maybe it's overly complicated to have a whole url for it. Sep 11 07:21:36 Would having a url make it simpler? Sep 11 07:22:03 At least I have had problems with finding stuff on the site Sep 11 07:22:25 and am not sure if a new url would simplify it Sep 11 07:22:26 I think we can create a news category which takes the blog feed. Sep 11 07:22:29 or maybe redesigning the main pages to contain obvious links to obvious stuff? =) Sep 11 07:22:36 And add an url pointing to that. Sep 11 07:22:49 RST38h touche Sep 11 07:23:06 RST38h, I believe that's the plan. ;) Sep 11 07:23:30 Yes it is. More discussion on that in Berlin Sep 11 07:23:35 RST38h: We are planning a redesing meeting at the summit, you are welcome to join ;) Sep 11 07:23:50 Or earlier if there are good ideas Sep 11 07:23:54 X-Fade: Not coming - out of vacation days Sep 11 07:24:04 RST38h: Too bad. :( Sep 11 07:24:09 But if you want some input, just ask Sep 11 07:24:25 Personally, I'd like to see the site slimmed down a lot. Sep 11 07:24:31 Too many nooks and crannies that are way too hard to get to. Sep 11 07:24:44 To many little extras eating up valuable screen space, bandwidth, and CPU time. Sep 11 07:25:53 yep Sep 11 07:26:04 For example, we do not need 4 (5?) different news sources Sep 11 07:26:13 I agree to some degree. It looks like it has evolved for a while Sep 11 07:26:30 and it is time for a redesign Sep 11 07:26:36 Working aggregator (i.e. Planet) will do just fine, as long as it allows people to ignore some sources and color codes them by importance Sep 11 07:26:53 Growth was a bit adhoc. :) Sep 11 07:27:01 Downloads should freaking work, just WORK Sep 11 07:27:29 Downloads suffers from a bad case of SLOOOW Sep 11 07:27:49 GeneralAntilles: Sorry about that ;) Sep 11 07:27:49 I.e. all the items at the top page should update, download counters should sync automatically, search should go directly to the app page if there is only one result (it nowshows a list of 1 entry), all screenshots should show up, etc Sep 11 07:27:57 Well, slow is an IT problem Sep 11 07:28:19 I suggest we let Nokia IT fix that, surely X-Fade nudges them about it Sep 11 07:28:29 Actually slow just last week became my problem Sep 11 07:28:40 tekojo: it is seasonal Sep 11 07:28:42 =) Sep 11 07:29:00 RST38h: tekojo meant his resposibility. Sep 11 07:29:05 Ah! Sep 11 07:29:10 Most of the discussion is probably moot until the new servers are in place Sep 11 07:29:19 * RST38h takes out the machine gun ;) Sep 11 07:29:30 I, for one, aint touching midgard while it takes 5 minutes to save a page. Sep 11 07:29:44 GA: How are new servers (IT) related to site layout and scripting (design)? Sep 11 07:30:12 * RST38h would just drop Midgard and go with plain PHP scripting Sep 11 07:30:19 We could have the most kickass design and setup in the world Sep 11 07:30:21 Will be *much* less convoluted this way :) Sep 11 07:30:36 but it'd take another 30 years to implement a lot of those changes remotely. :P Sep 11 07:30:56 Not 30 years but a few months at least, yes =( Sep 11 07:31:20 The problem is that we are running this on very puny hardware at the moment. Sep 11 07:31:28 Anyway, RST38h, you need both for a quality product. Sep 11 07:31:51 That poor little 770 needs to be taken out to pasture. Sep 11 07:32:29 maemo.org is where Nokia sent all the WSoDed 770s. Sep 11 07:32:30 yea, but these are parallel tasks Sep 11 07:32:35 Anyone have an extra 800 so we could upgrade? Sep 11 07:32:46 extra 800 770s? Sep 11 07:33:18 Maemo's grow a lot faster than Nokia's predictions thought it would, and it shows at every level of the product. . . . Sep 11 07:33:26 Hmm, that's an idea, add some more! Sep 11 07:33:56 770s Sep 11 07:34:57 The weird part is, it looks like with a proper strategy you *can* make an end-user product with heavy community participation Sep 11 07:35:37 [of course, 99% of the end users won't be part of that community, but this isn't different from fireFox] Sep 11 07:36:13 RST38h: care to elaborate? Sep 11 07:37:13 well, you have got Joe The User who has no idea what is going on and just wants his shiny new gadget to work Sep 11 07:37:37 Multiply by 1 million - these are the actual guys Nokia is making money from Sep 11 07:40:01 Then you have actually got 100-1000 folks who like hacking stuff or just power users Sep 11 07:40:26 Not going to make money on them, but can use them to offset development costs Sep 11 07:41:21 As long as they work on enough projects to choose from and you choose wisely which ones to include for unwashed masses to use Sep 11 07:42:04 Of course Maemo community does not have enough project on its own (not yet anyway) but there is whole Gnome and GPE to choose from =) Sep 11 07:45:15 Ah, ok Sep 11 07:45:19 One thing Nokia hasn't yet figured out is that you can use these guys as beta testers for the system software and maybe even let them work on the system stuff Sep 11 07:45:37 At least, this is not evident from the community bug tracker performance Sep 11 07:46:04 I don't really know yet, still too new here. Sep 11 07:46:26 * RST38h just told timeless a few days ago that his browserd eats off huge chunks of memory when it crashes and timeless just said that it is a "system bug" and not of his concern Sep 11 07:46:46 But I do know that Nokia should be more active there Sep 11 07:47:13 That is *after* it has been shown that browserd does not decrease browser loading time by any significant number Sep 11 07:51:13 RST38h, terrible example. Sep 11 07:51:27 At least for Bugzilla participation. Sep 11 07:51:54 Considering that timeless basically BUILT our Bugzilla. Sep 11 07:55:09 GA: Oh, it is not the infrastructure that is a problem Sep 11 07:55:45 I have given example of how a real problem with the major application is being ignored by responsible Nokia developers Sep 11 07:55:49 Agree, it is a bigger thing Sep 11 07:56:00 BTW, another Nokia developer just told me to "turn off browserd" Sep 11 07:56:09 you can? Sep 11 07:56:11 Of course, this prevents web browser from working Sep 11 07:56:14 ah yeah, of course Sep 11 07:56:18 You can but the browser will not work :) Sep 11 07:56:27 i know Sep 11 07:56:35 played with it already Sep 11 07:57:03 The real solution is to get rid of it and put gecko back into the app Sep 11 07:57:24 This will fix the hangup problem, fix the memory problem (no more huge gobs of SHM used) Sep 11 07:57:41 And will increase browser loading time by whopping 10-20% Sep 11 07:59:14 But, of course, Nokia guys won't consider it, they are absolutely proud of their browserd solution :) Sep 11 07:59:21 RST38h, out of interest, did you ever file a bug on the issue? . . . Sep 11 08:00:23 Personally, I like the load time reduction. Sep 11 08:01:17 GA: Yes, but it is not significant, at least not form browserd Sep 11 08:01:24 Let me see if I filed a bug Sep 11 08:01:31 s/form/from/ Sep 11 08:02:02 I didn't see one, just fyi. Sep 11 08:02:27 No, does not look like I proceeded further than iTT thread Sep 11 08:02:35 For the not freeing memory on crash one. Sep 11 08:02:42 There is neither Sep 11 08:02:44 Yeah, well, you get to bitch when you file a bug. ;) Sep 11 08:03:08 I will today, one for browserd hanging with 100% cpu, another for not freeing shm on kill Sep 11 08:03:58 Now when's dneary waking up. . . . Sep 11 08:04:16 GeneralAntilles: You really want to know, do you ;) Sep 11 08:04:26 Well, I _know_ Sep 11 08:04:27 X-Fade: we already know :D Sep 11 08:04:29 The results are up. Sep 11 08:04:33 But I want something official Sep 11 08:04:35 Ah ;) Sep 11 08:04:37 So I can start ACTING on them. . . . Sep 11 08:06:48 Ah yes: http://maemo.org/vote/results.php?election_id=1 Sep 11 08:06:51 Duh ;) Sep 11 08:09:29 31 abstentions :) Sep 11 08:09:46 Yeah, I don't get that.. Sep 11 08:09:59 What there a "none" option? Sep 11 08:10:12 can't remember. Sep 11 08:10:22 maybe when you just pressed "next" :) Sep 11 08:10:24 I think if you clicked 'vote' without selecting on of the radio boxes. Sep 11 08:10:28 Yeah. Sep 11 08:10:52 Hrm, wonder how many of those were intentional. Sep 11 08:10:59 But you still needed to confirm that. Sep 11 08:11:03 Oh? Sep 11 08:11:41 It said 'You voted for xxxx, are you sure'. Or at least something like that? Sep 11 08:12:08 at least it would not make a real difference as jamie needs 34 votes :) Sep 11 08:12:40 Well at least the top5 was really clear. Sep 11 08:12:49 So I think that is a good thing. Sep 11 08:12:59 yeah. Sep 11 08:14:19 * GeneralAntilles finally has something to put in the itT signature. Sep 11 08:14:32 'Slacker' ;) Sep 11 08:15:13 "Karma Whore" Sep 11 08:15:25 #3 Sep 11 08:16:05 I'm wondering what reserve of voters etrunko stumbled upon. Sep 11 08:16:08 That one took me by surprise. Sep 11 08:16:36 Anybody tried pidgin from chinook on diablo? I wonder if it has problems because of the new openssl Sep 11 08:16:57 It'll likely just pull down .97 Sep 11 08:17:13 zap: can't you just rebuild the package? Sep 11 08:18:04 jott: I could, but can't right now (not home) Sep 11 08:18:39 yeah etrunko made a real landslide victory :) Sep 11 08:19:57 zap: that's why the internet zealots invented ssh :) Sep 11 08:21:28 Those crazy internet zealots. . . . Sep 11 08:21:46 zap: no problems Sep 11 08:22:48 RST38h: do you use it? good Sep 11 08:23:05 yea Sep 11 08:23:06 jott: its kind of problematic to ssh to a non-running virtual machine on a suspended pc Sep 11 08:23:18 I am still unsure whether I should install collabora's version of pidgin though Sep 11 08:23:29 it adds 20+MB of unknown crap Sep 11 08:23:32 zap: That is what wake-on-lan is for ;) Sep 11 08:23:55 X-Fade: unfortunately, its behind two firewalls :) Sep 11 08:24:01 Morning, all Sep 11 08:24:51 Jaffa: Congrats. Soo close ;) Sep 11 08:24:56 Ah, I expected an email about that URL. Sep 11 08:25:01 X-Fade: indeed, thanks Sep 11 08:25:12 Jaffa: I guess when dave wakes up.. Sep 11 08:25:18 Jaffa: the url is "hacked" ;) Sep 11 08:25:20 Congrats also to etrunk, GeneralAntilles, lardman and timsamoff Sep 11 08:25:24 jott: ah :-) Sep 11 08:25:59 moin Sep 11 08:26:10 now you can use your power to overthrow all old structures :) Sep 11 08:26:42 blame the old council for everything in a bad state as of now :) Sep 11 08:26:56 jott: heh :) Sep 11 08:28:13 Is it possible at all to use ICQ with the standard Telepathy client? I have a ICQ gateway on my jabber server... Sep 11 08:29:32 aren't those libpurple bindings supposed to do so? Sep 11 08:55:41 zap: it is possibly butkinda sucks Sep 11 08:55:53 zap: although a few people will argue this point Sep 11 08:56:20 umgh Sep 11 08:56:24 s/possibly/possible/ Sep 11 08:56:57 GeneralAntilles: congrats btw Sep 11 08:57:15 ? Sep 11 08:57:41 Thanks! Sep 11 08:59:03 ah, you're in the councel? Sep 11 08:59:18 congrats! Sep 11 08:59:25 Not officially Sep 11 08:59:27 *council Sep 11 08:59:31 dneary still has to make the results official Sep 11 08:59:36 But they're up at the same place you voted. Sep 11 08:59:37 ah :) Sep 11 09:02:50 now we need flashy charts zooming around and using other pointless effects :) Sep 11 09:03:13 "WAR ON TERROR 2008" Sep 11 09:03:17 Just for good measure. Sep 11 09:03:58 s/ON/OF/ Sep 11 09:04:54 s/OF/FOR/ :P Sep 11 09:04:59 * jott hides Sep 11 09:05:38 They all amount to the same thing. Sep 11 09:06:40 Hi ! Sep 11 09:09:16 does maemo.org is down ? Sep 11 09:09:39 language parse error ;) Sep 11 09:09:46 works here though Sep 11 09:10:38 works here too Sep 11 09:10:58 or should i say "works" here too :) Sep 11 09:11:30 hm now it seems dead Sep 11 09:11:45 Bugzilla, Garage, and maemo.org loaded Sep 11 09:11:47 Wiki and Planet are not. Sep 11 09:12:12 it's just the usual "works" Sep 11 09:12:23 hum ... maybe a local akaima cache problem Sep 11 09:12:50 if you hit the right apache thread and the right akaima mirror it works :) Sep 11 09:13:22 * aquatix looks at the moon Sep 11 09:13:27 and the sun Sep 11 09:13:40 No, the server is a bit overloaded at the moment as we are creating a db dump for testing purposes. Sep 11 09:13:53 *bit more than it already is ;) Sep 11 09:14:15 don't make the 770 explode in their last minutes :P Sep 11 09:16:28 X-Fade: good to have you back. finally we are back in the loop and get to know what happens :) Sep 11 09:16:56 oh and we decided that you will get no vacations in the next year :) Sep 11 09:17:11 Hehe ;) Sep 11 09:17:15 We're docking your pay, too. Sep 11 09:17:19 X-Fade: do you write the dump by using wifi from the 770 Server or do you use an sdcard ? Sep 11 09:17:20 :) Sep 11 09:17:36 Khertan: mmc, it doesn't have sd support. Sep 11 09:17:45 lol ... have forgotten :) Sep 11 09:18:09 (104) Connection reset by peer Sep 11 09:18:23 Damn that Peer! Sep 11 09:18:27 yep again Sep 11 09:19:26 oh the result of the council vote Sep 11 09:19:27 ! Sep 11 09:19:38 ¡ Sep 11 09:19:49 etrunko ? hum ... don't know it ... Sep 11 09:20:48 it? is etrunko a bot? :D Sep 11 09:20:55 GeneralAntilles: 3rd, not so bad Sep 11 09:21:08 jott: maybe i don't know :) Sep 11 09:21:28 Khertan: Well, be sure to check that out at the summit ;) Sep 11 09:21:34 GeneralAntilles: gz Sep 11 09:21:38 X-Fade: :=) Sep 11 09:21:54 we need a sharp stick to test it. Sep 11 09:22:51 * GeneralAntilles whittles a few more. Sep 11 09:23:09 The cattle prods are a nice upgrade, though, for only $39.99. Sep 11 09:23:41 * Jaffa twiddles his thumbs for /news/ Sep 11 09:23:55 X-Fade: when are the new servers going to go online? Sep 11 09:24:26 Eduardo Lima work for indt on Canola ... Sep 11 09:24:43 Jaffa: When ready ;) Sep 11 09:24:44 Khertan, all of Brazil voted for him. ;) Sep 11 09:25:12 Jaffa: But that is not my call. Sep 11 09:25:45 X-Fade: How far from "ready" would you say they were? ;-) Sep 11 09:25:49 lol Sep 11 09:25:51 but council is 5 members, isn't it ? Sep 11 09:26:01 Yep, the voting software doesn't know that. Sep 11 09:26:34 According to the provisional results, the council is etrunko, Jaffa, GeneralAntilles, lardman, timsamoff (in alphabetical order) Sep 11 09:26:41 X-Fade, we demand status updates every 30 seconds. :P Sep 11 09:26:53 GeneralAntilles: Ok, current status: dead ;) Sep 11 09:26:58 Jaffa: the server logs probably know :) Sep 11 09:40:14 * Khertan don't understand why everyone want to use h264 on a mobile device Sep 11 09:40:19 this is stupid ... Sep 11 09:40:37 why? if there is dedicated hardware for it? Sep 11 09:40:43 it s ask more power to be decoded so drain battery Sep 11 09:41:05 jott: only some ipod have dedicated hardware for it Sep 11 09:41:15 yeah well that's another story :) Sep 11 09:41:16 Because it's smaller and higher quality. Sep 11 09:41:25 it uses less space than other codecs Sep 11 09:41:30 GeneralAntilles: smaller ... not really Sep 11 09:41:36 Better compression Sep 11 09:41:43 So smaller files for the same quality. Sep 11 09:41:56 better quality ... hum ... on small screen not very usefull i think Sep 11 09:41:56 psp has dedicated hardware for it Sep 11 09:41:58 better quality with lower bitrates :) Sep 11 09:42:13 The IVA can handle h.264 decoding just fine. Sep 11 09:42:20 IVA ? Sep 11 09:42:23 s/can/could/ Sep 11 09:42:32 Well, the HARDWARE can handle it Sep 11 09:42:37 yeah. Sep 11 09:42:40 Khertan, the hardware video decoder Sep 11 09:42:47 We just need software. <_< Sep 11 09:42:51 oh ... Sep 11 09:43:10 there is hardware decoding for h264 in n810 ? Sep 11 09:43:14 The goal is less to be get h.264 support than to not have to worry about transcoding stuff, though. Sep 11 09:43:26 It'll handle 640x480 h.264 without issue. Sep 11 09:43:37 Khertan: a general purpose extra arm core with multimedia extensions. Sep 11 09:43:44 There's also hardware for 3D acceleration and audio decoding. ;) Sep 11 09:44:23 don't know that n8x0 have hardware video decoding ... Sep 11 09:44:30 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=222958&postcount=4 Sep 11 09:44:41 well omap2420 is a nice soc... Sep 11 09:44:46 Khertan, the OMAPs have lots of wonderful little toys . . . Sep 11 09:44:49 is it used for something at this time Sep 11 09:44:51 ? Sep 11 09:44:52 IF it would be usable :/ Sep 11 09:44:55 unfortunately they're incredibly underutilized on Linux Sep 11 09:45:05 mostly because TI and Imagination Tech are being assholes about it. Sep 11 09:45:10 Khertan, no, nothing at all. Sep 11 09:45:19 Khertan: on symbian devices.. Sep 11 09:45:21 Only the primary ARM11 core and the DSP are used. Sep 11 09:45:38 Stupid Symbian devices. . . . Sep 11 09:45:53 3d on an N93 is something to behold, though. Sep 11 09:46:12 someone have already try to do reverse to see how it s work ? Sep 11 09:46:19 maybe ti will one day release the tech ref for the omap2420... :) Sep 11 09:46:37 Khertan: n8x0 does not have hw video decoding Sep 11 09:47:00 RST38h: the cpu seems to have :) Sep 11 09:47:03 Khertan: it has got a second ARM CPU (ARM7?) that can take some of the decoding tasks off the main ARM Sep 11 09:47:21 But not dedicated video decoding hw, as far as I know Sep 11 09:47:23 RST38h: plus it seems to have some multimedia extensions... Sep 11 09:47:30 afair atleast. Sep 11 09:47:42 Eh, it's a core that does video decoding. Sep 11 09:48:01 well it's still general purpose mainly Sep 11 09:48:09 not dedicated Sep 11 09:48:39 but it would allow a nice boost in video decoding for sure. Sep 11 09:49:50 may have got some kind of hw vlc decoder Sep 11 09:51:03 it's a real pity that ti does not open up the old specs. :( Sep 11 09:52:14 i still believe nokia could convince them to do so (if there are no serious ip conflicts in the old specs). Sep 11 09:55:45 seems that the built in media player plays h264 better than mplayer, but mplayer's better at playing everything else Sep 11 09:56:29 Yeah, mplayer's h.264 playback is a bit broken Sep 11 10:01:27 there's a gstreamer h264 thing isnt there? Sep 11 10:01:32 that uses a chip in the nokia Sep 11 10:02:08 think i ran into that, atleast Sep 11 10:05:09 Stskeeps: does it really use an extra chip? Sep 11 10:05:20 No way. Sep 11 10:05:23 Not a chance in hell. Sep 11 10:05:31 its probably just heavily arm optimized. Sep 11 10:05:42 you refer to that hantro codec, right? Sep 11 10:07:51 http://www.on2.com/index.php?137 <- that seems to be the one used Sep 11 10:09:00 yeah Sep 11 10:09:06 q Sep 11 10:09:14 http://www.on2.com/index.php?140 and this one Sep 11 10:09:23 as encoder Sep 11 10:09:27 bah. Vim is -> that window, not here. Sep 11 10:11:08 Well, dneary announced Sep 11 10:11:14 5 days until it's actually official, though. Sep 11 10:11:48 morning Sep 11 10:12:11 Hi, lardman, and 'grats. :) Sep 11 10:12:42 when setting up gmail imap inbox with the default email client, does it download all emails to the device or... what? Sep 11 10:12:54 GeneralAntilles: thanks and you too Sep 11 10:15:19 imap should always get mails from the server though it should download some of it for offline browsing, are there settings for that? Sep 11 10:15:46 my gmail account is over 1gb big and I don't expect the email client to download all of it to the tablet Sep 11 10:16:08 <_berto_> e-mails that you read (open) are cached in the tablet Sep 11 10:16:41 <_berto_> e-mails that you don't read are not downloaded Sep 11 10:18:02 <_berto_> liri: to download some of them for offline browsing, select them and then 'retrieve contents' in the menu Sep 11 10:18:16 ahh ok Sep 11 10:44:55 Hi. Sep 11 10:45:49 What is the current maximum video playback resolution for video files on N810? It used to be lower than 800x480 for technical reasons, but I recently read claims that this was resolved. Sep 11 10:46:41 Depends on the bitrate. Sep 11 10:46:43 and framerate Sep 11 10:46:48 It's not really a hard resolution limit Sep 11 10:47:18 Yes, but 800x480@30fps is still not possible, is it? Sep 11 10:47:22 Ha Sep 11 10:47:23 No. Sep 11 10:47:34 Practically speaking, you wont get more than ~500x300 (expand either dimension to suite) from a normal XviD encoding. Sep 11 10:48:51 Then all I can do is keep hoping for the next hardware version of the IT. Sep 11 10:49:24 playback of DVD rips at native resolution is still my holy grail for the IT. Sep 11 10:51:39 * hanno would love to know rumours about the next hardware revision. are there any? Sep 11 10:53:25 DVDs are lower resolution than 800x480 Sep 11 10:53:34 Look into the TI OMAP3430 Sep 11 10:53:50 Yes, it solves almost all of our video playback issues. Sep 11 10:54:46 DVDs are more than 500x300. Sep 11 10:54:46 The OMAP3530 in the Beagle Board and the Pandora (which is _almost_ the same as the OMAP3430, just missing a few interfaces) is already playing 720p Sep 11 10:55:45 Yes, but they're not 800x480 Sep 11 10:55:51 GeneralAntilles: speaking of. played some 720p h264 stuff? :) Sep 11 10:56:42 jott, not yet. Sep 11 10:56:53 I was gonna download Big Buck Bunny to try, but then my cable went out. :\ Sep 11 10:56:59 shiny new omap covered with dust already? :P Sep 11 10:57:36 It's not even booting at this point. Sep 11 10:57:52 Just flashed a new MLO and u-boot image to NAND and it's bricked. Sep 11 10:58:00 Recovery isn't going so well. :\ Sep 11 10:58:05 :( Sep 11 10:58:27 Instructions straight from koen Sep 11 10:58:30 I can't imagine what went wrong. Sep 11 11:02:09 Jaffa, GeneralAntilles, lardman: congrats guys Sep 11 11:04:32 Thank you, sir! Sep 11 11:05:32 grocery shopping time == offline time Sep 11 11:05:32 bbiab Sep 11 11:07:38 hi again Sep 11 11:08:00 how can i relaunch browserd after a kill -9 Sep 11 11:08:04 ? Sep 11 11:08:19 (without restart) Sep 11 11:11:08 Khertan_n810: as root /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon start or restart Sep 11 11:11:31 thx Sep 11 11:13:14 crashanddie: thanks Sep 11 11:13:39 crashanddie: did you see the F1 in-gear figures I posted yesterday? Sep 11 11:13:51 hmm? Sep 11 11:14:38 lardman, I don't think I have, what about? Sep 11 11:14:54 crashanddie: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/IMGP1000.JPG Sep 11 11:15:09 crashanddie: just to marvel at mainly Sep 11 11:16:23 lardman, what car is that? Sep 11 11:16:32 McLaren F1 Sep 11 11:16:38 lardman: Those units are useless ;) Sep 11 11:16:58 lardman, 0-10 in 3.2s Sep 11 11:17:17 err, 0-60 Sep 11 11:17:29 X-Fade: Just multiply by 1.609344 ;) Sep 11 11:18:05 150-170 in 3.5s! Sep 11 11:18:41 sorry, am going off topic again, come on X-Fade where;s the hw hints we wanted? ;) Sep 11 11:20:47 lardman: Well, backup restored. Testing in progress ;) Sep 11 11:22:24 DM6446 codecs Sep 11 11:22:27 oups ww Sep 11 11:31:34 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPP2BGsY4BM <- woo Sep 11 11:31:34 :P Sep 11 11:32:41 !@ Sep 11 11:32:41 aquatix: Error: "@" is not a valid command. Sep 11 11:32:44 meh Sep 11 11:33:11 * aquatix is getting used to a bot that fetches the title of a link that way Sep 11 11:33:33 * RST38h 's car accelerates to 60mph in 20 seconds and is proud of it! Sep 11 11:33:43 :) Sep 11 11:33:50 mine in a similar time Sep 11 11:33:54 might be a tad faster Sep 11 11:33:59 depends on my mood Sep 11 11:35:29 congrat to the maemo community council members (the ones i know anyway) Sep 11 11:37:42 thanks lcuk Sep 11 11:37:56 regrets for not voting :( Sep 11 11:38:34 timelelyx i thought nokians were excluded? or was i thinking of something else Sep 11 11:38:53 timelyx: does that mean you didn't like the outcome? ;) Sep 11 11:39:22 lcuk: as far as i can tell i was eligible to vote Sep 11 11:39:26 my vote did not effect the final outcome but it was important all the same :) Sep 11 11:39:27 timelyx: Would your one vote have made another outcome? Sep 11 11:39:35 lardman: no, just distracted by things and failed to cast a vote Sep 11 11:39:48 x-fade, did you vote? Sep 11 11:39:52 X-Fade: it's more that i'm an American, and I believe in voting Sep 11 11:39:53 dneary: what was the voter turn-out? Sep 11 11:40:01 lcuk: Yes, I did. Sep 11 11:40:08 cool Sep 11 11:40:16 Just under 1000 of just under 13000 in the electorate Sep 11 11:40:21 X-Fade: btw, the topic should be changed :) Sep 11 11:40:25 So, about 7% Sep 11 11:41:15 Actually, there were some disabled accounts which should have been filtered out, so closer to 11000 voters - give or take 9% turnout Sep 11 11:41:22 lardman, Jaffa, any thoughts on a signature? Sep 11 11:41:24 thats low by real election standards, but we dont know how many of the eligable are actually active Sep 11 11:41:46 its average by election standards i would say. Sep 11 11:41:49 That said, I'd be interested in seeing the average, median and stddev of the karma of people who didn't vote - I suspect it'd be close to 3 Sep 11 11:41:52 GeneralAntilles, "nerrr nerrr - PHEAR ME - I ARE YOUR GOD Sep 11 11:42:03 There are 9000 people who had a karma under 5 Sep 11 11:42:12 dneary, you cannot do that :) Sep 11 11:42:36 Grats GeneralAntilles, lardman, Jaffa Sep 11 11:42:37 dneary: yes, it would be interesting indeed Sep 11 11:42:38 unless you can extract stats from other backchannels (ie those who have an unused ticket) Sep 11 11:42:41 hi! Sep 11 11:42:46 GeneralAntilles: no idea Sep 11 11:42:52 Thanks! Sep 11 11:43:02 lcuk: I can get a list of people who did & didn't vote, but I can't know how they voted Sep 11 11:43:03 just lost busybox after an apt dist-upgrade!!! Sep 11 11:43:04 Ryan Abel Sep 11 11:43:04 maemo.org Community Council member Sep 11 11:43:08 Is what I'm thinking Sep 11 11:43:18 lcuk: well look at those who did vote, assuming that's recorded, even if their votes aren't, etc. Sep 11 11:43:20 Obviously, as people voted, we checked them off the elector list (similar to real-life elections) Sep 11 11:43:26 but the whole Maemo/maemo.org nonsense makes that less obvious. Sep 11 11:43:33 dneary - i just realised that myself, go for it then , make a whole election night presentation with graphs and stuff Sep 11 11:43:38 can you find out WHEN people voted? Sep 11 11:43:44 dr-jnut, who told you to apt-get dist-upgrade? Sep 11 11:43:50 lcuk: No, we don't record that Sep 11 11:43:51 at least it's about twice the number of votes originally considered :) Sep 11 11:43:53 GeneralAntilles, myself Sep 11 11:43:55 I was keeping count Sep 11 11:43:57 That can easily drop you into a repo loop with the wrong repositories. Sep 11 11:44:16 GeneralAntilles, and nobody told me NOT to dist-upgrade Sep 11 11:44:18 I know that there were over 800 who had voted by Monday morning Sep 11 11:44:19 keeping count? you were watching the election process? Sep 11 11:44:21 Peter Snow, bring it on Sep 11 11:44:29 dr-jnut, well, I'll tell you now. Don't dist-upgrade. ;) Sep 11 11:44:41 Only of the "how many have counted" tally Sep 11 11:44:50 GeneralAntilles, thanks a lot Sep 11 11:44:54 You may be able to fix it with some ninja skills and usbnet Sep 11 11:45:00 A reflash is probably in order, though. Sep 11 11:45:08 I'll reflash Sep 11 11:45:20 dr-jnut, always, always, always check to see what's being installed and remove with stuff like that. Sep 11 11:45:32 yup Sep 11 11:45:42 the upgrade involved coreutils... Sep 11 11:45:54 Hey Sep 11 11:46:13 and I said yes, like I'm used to do on my debian Sep 11 11:46:38 dr-jnut, out of interest, what repositories did you have installed? Sep 11 11:46:56 dunno, diablo ones Sep 11 11:47:09 the sdk repository probably Sep 11 11:47:12 It shouldn't have been a problem except for a couple of repositories, like the SDK repo (which should NEVER be used on-device), that have stuff that'll kill Maemo. Sep 11 11:47:15 ^ Sep 11 11:47:25 Hi, andrewfblack. Sep 11 11:47:27 ok Sep 11 11:47:28 (as coreutils very much looks like that) Sep 11 11:47:34 yeah Sep 11 11:47:52 I think I trusted gronmayer site too much Sep 11 11:47:55 dr-jnut, unfortunately, there are a couple of .installs in the wild that'll add the SDK repo. Sep 11 11:48:01 dr-jnut, gronmayer is concentrated evil. Sep 11 11:48:05 and very likely installed the sdk repo Sep 11 11:48:10 you only need to add the sdk to install gcc and stuff. then remove it immediately. Sep 11 11:48:10 Only use it in small doses. Sep 11 11:48:11 does etrunko come into the maemo chan? Sep 11 11:48:18 Pretty much everything you need is in Extras/Extras-devel. Sep 11 11:48:20 lcuk, fairly often. Sep 11 11:48:22 * lcuk cant ever remember seeing him Sep 11 11:48:28 Doesn't talk much, though. Sep 11 11:48:32 ~seen etrunko Sep 11 11:48:34 no idea who heis Sep 11 11:48:34 etrunko was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 12d 14h 33m 10s ago, saying: ':P'. Sep 11 11:48:36 He's usually in #canola Sep 11 11:48:51 I have some ideas about council member's participation levels and where, though. ;) Sep 11 11:48:59 I believe I did this mistake while trying to get telepathy-haze, which works fine now Sep 11 11:49:10 s/works/worked/ Sep 11 11:49:10 dr-jnut meant: I believe I did this mistake while trying to get telepathy-haze, which worked fine now Sep 11 11:49:25 damn, in linux i would do something like "grep etrunko bigirclog.txt" damn windows Sep 11 11:49:30 GeneralAntilles already sharpened your stick and charged your cattle prod? Sep 11 11:49:32 dr-jnut, your first sentence was correct, actually Sep 11 11:49:36 dr-jnut, not the correction :D Sep 11 11:50:14 testtesttest Sep 11 11:50:18 yup, but I wanted to say that now it doesn't work well cause everything break with disappearing of busybox Sep 11 11:50:18 s/test/test/g Sep 11 11:50:26 jott, ready to go! Sep 11 11:50:31 anyway Sep 11 11:50:37 ~cookie Sep 11 11:50:39 * infobot pulls out the cookie jar and finds ... Sep 11 11:50:57 dr-jnut, coreutils is actually one of the only major packages that'll cause problems Sep 11 11:51:05 wayfinder navigator is the only app working now, and is the only one I need for my trip in Paris Sep 11 11:51:07 and it may be less of an issue in the future if some important changes take place. Sep 11 11:51:09 stesttest Sep 11 11:51:15 s/stest/tests/g Sep 11 11:51:15 crashanddie meant: teststest Sep 11 11:51:18 GeneralAntilles, I should have seen it coming Sep 11 11:51:43 dr-jnut, it's OK, now you know. ;) Sep 11 11:52:00 and you're much better equipped to understand and watch out for it in the future than if somebody had just warned you off. :D Sep 11 11:52:01 running sid debians made me confident... but maemo is another piece of software Sep 11 11:52:10 yup Sep 11 11:52:22 GeneralAntilles, thanks a lot for your help Sep 11 11:52:38 dr-jnut: there's also deblet for tablets if you get bored ;) Sep 11 11:53:15 deblet? Sep 11 11:53:16 Be warned the .install for Deblet adds the SDK repo. :P Sep 11 11:53:34 GeneralAntilles, I'll stick to safe packages Sep 11 11:53:45 http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet Sep 11 11:53:46 GeneralAntilles, since the voting tallies are in are you gonna be pulling rank on lardman and stuff :D Sep 11 11:53:55 and include a sed script to remove the sdk repo automagically ;) Sep 11 11:54:01 Stskeeps, thx Sep 11 11:54:17 GeneralAntilles: i'd more than love to avoid that, but someone seems to think binutils and other "good" packages doesn't belong on a tablet easily :P Sep 11 11:54:37 Stskeeps, make a case to get them in /tools? Sep 11 11:54:45 Or just take care of it yourself and upload to Extras. Sep 11 11:55:06 GeneralAntilles: it's in my todo to move most packages into extras, yeah Sep 11 11:55:20 Stskeeps: Great! :) Sep 11 11:55:31 Is there any way to change the internal SD on the 810? Anyone tried? Sep 11 11:55:42 lcuk: find "string" file Sep 11 11:55:44 on windows Sep 11 11:55:49 dr-jnut, short answer: no long answer: with a lot of pain and suffering. Sep 11 11:56:02 is it soldered? Sep 11 11:56:14 oh wow Sep 11 11:56:18 GeneralAntilles: just need to get more into the packaging standards - changing to more standard stuff for deblet as well as we're moving to have a apt repos for deblet packages (like, non-maemo ones) Sep 11 11:56:19 dr-jnut, yeah. Sep 11 11:56:20 there are some linkedin connection whores Sep 11 11:56:20 timelyx i already copied the log to my nit and ran grep and am looking at the results - windows feels clutzy for more and more stuff now Sep 11 11:56:32 * timelyx shrugs Sep 11 11:56:39 windows works, you just need to learn to use "help" Sep 11 11:56:49 GeneralAntilles, ok, thx Sep 11 11:56:53 Anyways, Stskeeps, I shouldn't give you too much grief. Some damn impressive work so far. :) Sep 11 11:56:54 I just went from a network of 30k to a network of 900k after accepting this one guy Sep 11 11:57:10 dr-jnut, basically, you'd have to source an equivalent chip Sep 11 11:57:17 which isn't super hard, but I don't think they sell them individually Sep 11 11:57:34 GeneralAntilles: mm - most tricks wouldn't be possible without the work of maemo people really Sep 11 11:57:34 then find the chip in the N810, desolder it and solder the new one on Sep 11 11:57:42 Unless you have better skills than a ninja or real equipment. . . . Sep 11 11:58:02 I don't have real skills for this Sep 11 11:58:16 but I wanted more memory for maemo mapper cache Sep 11 11:58:55 dr-jnut, yeah, the N810 is really memory-crippled. Sep 11 11:59:09 Either wait for some reasonably sized MicroSD cards Sep 11 11:59:09 dr-jnut: Why don't you just buy a 32gb card for the external slot? Sep 11 11:59:16 or maybe install Roadmap and try the vector maps. Sep 11 11:59:22 32GB MicroSDs are available? Sep 11 11:59:25 You know I'm surprised we havn't heard of anyone replacing the internal memory card Sep 11 11:59:36 I guess N810 users are to scared to open it up and play Sep 11 11:59:42 didn't know there was 32GB cards Sep 11 11:59:45 i really prefer the n800 way of having int and ext card ports Sep 11 11:59:48 * GeneralAntilles is not surprised. ;) Sep 11 11:59:59 even though a std 2g card inside is nice Sep 11 12:00:04 andrewfblack: if it talks sd, it shouldn't be that super hard? comparable to some more hardcore modchips or so.. Sep 11 12:00:08 OMAP3, apparently, can handle 3 card slots. Sep 11 12:00:41 So it wouldn't be out of the question for Nokia to bundle a 2GB-4GB soldered-on, with two more slots available for real cards. Sep 11 12:00:51 glasss yeah I'm sure its possible to do it but I only have one tablet and can't aford a new one when/if I blow it up Sep 11 12:00:53 heh, N900 wishlist ;) Sep 11 12:01:10 i should get a 770 from somewhere Sep 11 12:01:31 i should get some more modern sw on my 770.. Sep 11 12:02:16 hm. odd question - is there a 770 emu like there's one for n800? Sep 11 12:02:58 "The big picture appears to be that you are inventing technical details to explain your subjective experience with POP and IMAP." Sep 11 12:03:01 Stskeeps: scratchbox ? Sep 11 12:03:01 dr-jnut btw Craves1 is working on an adaptor/new batt cover to allow 2 full sized SD cards to be used on n810 Sep 11 12:03:09 Ahaha. Thank you, Mr. Voipio Sep 11 12:03:17 Stskeeps: i think you can have a scratchbox with os2006 Sep 11 12:03:37 melmoth: yeah, but i intend to implement a debian installer + run it on a emulator to check if it works.. Sep 11 12:03:46 and SB just isn't enough for that Sep 11 12:03:50 But it s not an emulator, you will not have access to low level thingy such as hardware emulation Sep 11 12:04:05 testing packaging should work ok. Sep 11 12:04:06 Jaffa, lardman, think I can close: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council Sep 11 12:04:28 GeneralAntilles do we know who won yet? Sep 11 12:05:36 andrewfblack, yes, etrunko,jaffa,gen,lardman,tim - you can catch etrunko on #canola i believe later on :) Sep 11 12:05:50 the rest are knocking around between here and itt Sep 11 12:06:07 GeneralAntilles: yep Sep 11 12:06:28 cool I know everyone but etrunko Sep 11 12:06:53 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2008-September/000869.html Sep 11 12:06:54 So basicly everyone but 1 person got selected Sep 11 12:07:04 2 people Sep 11 12:07:06 andrewfblack, you are not the first to mention this :) Sep 11 12:07:40 lcuk, going to get my SS# today Sep 11 12:07:54 I can't beleave only 926 people out of 12000 voted Sep 11 12:07:54 NI# Sep 11 12:08:11 lcuk, same Sep 11 12:08:17 andrewfblack, it's actually pretty good Sep 11 12:08:32 andrewfblack, thats actually understandable - its a list of members many of whom are no longer active Sep 11 12:08:49 Well, I was expecting something in the 200 range. Sep 11 12:09:05 crashanddie: regarding linkedin whore, http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=13547072&trk=tab_pro Sep 11 12:09:28 Stskeeps, that you? Sep 11 12:09:32 crashanddie: aye Sep 11 12:09:34 Stskeeps, can't see it, hidden profile Sep 11 12:09:37 lol Sep 11 12:09:39 oh well Sep 11 12:09:40 .. Sep 11 12:09:54 http://www.linkedin.com/in/carstenmunk ? Sep 11 12:10:24 better :) Sep 11 12:11:38 Stskeeps: hmm...Munk name, you know where it's from? (I'm sort of into genealogy in periods, and have an ancestor way back in 16-something with name Ludvig Munk, I think he was from Denmark yes) Sep 11 12:11:50 Jaffa, lardman, any objection to listing alphabetically by last name for the wiki? Sep 11 12:12:10 Veggen: sweden-like, but my dad was adopted so it isn't a bloodline thing :P Sep 11 12:12:31 hahaha GeneralAntilles glory seeking already :P Sep 11 12:12:31 GeneralAntilles, rather than by votes? I agree 100% Sep 11 12:13:04 The votes actually went alphabetically by nick. . . . Sep 11 12:13:11 Er, well, no. Sep 11 12:13:13 Nevermind Sep 11 12:13:25 thought about switching to AntillesGeneral there for a sec Sep 11 12:13:25 ? Sep 11 12:13:26 :P Sep 11 12:13:36 I'm not sure, actually. Sep 11 12:13:45 * GeneralAntilles only alphabetized books for 3 years. . . . Sep 11 12:14:02 OK, crashanddie's opinion is good enough. Sep 11 12:14:08 It's a wiki, change it if you object. Sep 11 12:17:00 StSkeeps: I'm not that concerned about bloodlines. History-bit is more interesting ;) Sep 11 12:18:06 and bloodlines are just a part of it, but really I'm not that concerned that there will probably be a lot of lies in family relationships etc. back in the old days (wrong father) Sep 11 12:18:18 is it just me or did the number of apps on maemo.org go down? Sep 11 12:18:25 hehe. "in the old days".. trust me, that stuff still happens :> Sep 11 12:18:55 Stskeeps: sure. Sep 11 12:31:45 morning, etrunko. :) Sep 11 12:31:48 and 'grats. Sep 11 12:33:12 GeneralAntilles: hey dude... you too Sep 11 12:33:27 and to the others Sep 11 12:33:37 andrewfblack: no, number of apps went up Sep 11 12:34:13 now that the council is joined, first actions are due :D Sep 11 12:34:25 * jott scratches his belly Sep 11 12:34:53 * GeneralAntilles cattle-prods jott. Sep 11 12:34:55 wow... 200 votes! Sep 11 12:34:58 * etrunko didn't expect it at all Sep 11 12:35:04 Submit to my will! Sep 11 12:35:28 etrunko: where did you advertise? Sep 11 12:35:28 etrunko, it's all those INdT friends you've got down there. :P Sep 11 12:35:47 etrunko, who'd you pay? What features in canola did you promise? Sep 11 12:35:50 Billboards on the side of the road in Brazil, I bet. Sep 11 12:35:58 GeneralAntilles: i thought it was only 6 votes Sep 11 12:36:01 :P Sep 11 12:36:13 Early access to Canola alphas, I bet. . . . :D Sep 11 12:36:14 i still bet it's subliminal messages in canola :D Sep 11 12:36:21 hehe Sep 11 12:36:22 :) Sep 11 12:36:36 I'm still surprised GA had more than one vote... His own Sep 11 12:36:45 * GeneralAntilles voted for lardman. Sep 11 12:36:51 who the hell votes for a 20yo beard-faced guy Sep 11 12:36:52 crashanddie: i voted for him Sep 11 12:36:53 :) Sep 11 12:37:27 crashanddie: there are IT students that don't have a beard and aren't 20yo? Sep 11 12:37:31 I just held tab for 30s and then pressed enter, dunno who I voted for Sep 11 12:37:41 aquatix, I don't Sep 11 12:38:06 crashanddie: ;) Sep 11 12:38:11 * aquatix has neither Sep 11 12:38:21 well, i have a goatee... i'm 26 though :P Sep 11 12:38:34 I did the long hair, and I'm doing the beard. Sep 11 12:38:51 I've had the very long hair (middle of the back), I've had the beard, I've had the goatee Sep 11 12:39:04 job interviews just work a helluva lot better when you smell and look good :P Sep 11 12:39:30 * Jaffa eughs after an enormous lunch meeting: steak & kidney pie, with chips, with bubble & squeak, with spinach, with a cumberland sausage on the side. Sep 11 12:39:53 celebrating your victory already jaffa? :) Sep 11 12:40:00 :) Sep 11 12:41:54 joitt: if I die in office does baloo get roped in? ;-) Sep 11 12:42:59 Jaffa, I'll second you Sep 11 12:43:30 Nah, we're reviving your corpse and keeping Zombie-Jaffa in office. Sep 11 12:46:49 re Sep 11 12:50:52 GeneralAntilles: braaaaains Sep 11 12:59:09 for some reason on maemo.org I had OS2008 selected but it kept giving me the 2007 list when I clicked on a tag Sep 11 13:05:54 "Greg S." from maemo-developers here? Sep 11 13:11:40 hola Sep 11 13:30:10 on-topic time! how do I bind a key combo to 'grep with argument (the command line in this case) in emacs? Sep 11 13:31:10 * sp3000 doesn't understand the syntax and tries random stuff like (global-set-key [(control x) t] [grep "fgrep -Hn '[todo' ~/notes.txt | sort -k2 | tee"]) Sep 11 13:32:48 Jaffa, on -community with a [Council] flag? Sep 11 13:32:56 Jaffa, GET OUT OF MY LAWN Sep 11 13:33:11 sp3000: call-process not ok for you? Sep 11 13:34:08 trenka: I do need grep-mode in the result buffer Sep 11 13:34:53 (or, occur would be better what with losing the filename, but getting those sorted is problematic since occur loses track there) Sep 11 13:36:21 crashanddie, what are you whining about now? Sep 11 13:36:37 GAN800, nothing, it was just a joke Sep 11 13:37:52 Witness the awesome stability of Colloquy! <_< Sep 11 13:38:32 I always have to stop myself from just /join #colloquy "When are you guys gonna make a client that DOESN'T suck? /part Sep 11 13:39:54 GeneralAntilles: run irssi? :) Sep 11 13:40:29 aquatix, don't have the patience for it. Sep 11 13:40:41 Sad thing is, with as much as Colloquy does suck, it's worlds better than everything else. Sep 11 13:41:13 patience? for irssi? Sep 11 13:41:22 it doesn't get in my way at least Sep 11 13:41:31 but maybe it needs a bit of getting used to Sep 11 13:42:00 [14:41] * Now talking on #colloquy Sep 11 13:42:01 [14:41] (crashanddie) "When are you guys gonna make a client that DOESN'T suck? Sep 11 13:42:01 [14:41] * You have left channel #colloquy ("Leaving") Sep 11 13:43:23 aquatix, well, I like having lots of windows Sep 11 13:43:29 irssi doesn't let me do that so easily Sep 11 13:43:52 * aquatix has a lot of windows inside irssi Sep 11 13:44:01 irssi isn't bad, it's just a variety of small things that make it inappropriate for my setup. Sep 11 13:44:03 crashanddie: lol Sep 11 13:44:09 GeneralAntilles: fair enough Sep 11 13:44:17 Colloquy isn't really bad, either. Sep 11 13:44:31 It just has a couple stupidly reproducible crasher bugs that they can't seem to fix. Sep 11 13:44:35 Or don't care enough to fix Sep 11 13:44:38 I just wish they would release a new version already Sep 11 13:44:42 Amen Sep 11 13:45:02 most of the bugs I've found are fixed according to trac Sep 11 13:45:08 Really? Sep 11 13:45:15 Maybe I'll see if I can get the svn going. Sep 11 13:45:26 the scrolling one is the most annoying and it's been fixed for like 4 months Sep 11 13:45:30 * jott hugs irssi Sep 11 13:45:51 I though I was lazy when it comes to builds ;-) Sep 11 13:46:29 I like the "hey, a new PM tab opened, now this window will never redraw again!" bug Sep 11 13:48:12 Just, fyi, snowmoon-work, your email to the Active X thread only went to me. Sep 11 13:48:23 Doh Sep 11 13:48:43 * brontide runs off to snark the list Sep 11 13:49:09 damn... oportunity lost Sep 11 13:50:04 GeneralAntilles: the /reload style doesn't fix it for ya? Sep 11 13:50:33 brontide, nope, never has. Sep 11 13:51:13 Of course that's another big annoyance... ever since Safari 3 ( and the webkit update ) I've had to do the occasional /reload style on startup Sep 11 13:51:20 sp3000: do not see any problem Sep 11 13:52:14 trenka: assuming the necessary knowledge, I'm sure there is none :) Sep 11 13:52:25 anyhow, http://xemacs.org/Documentation/21.5/html/xemacs-faq_4.html#SEC125 saved me Sep 11 13:52:44 (global-set-key [(control x) t] (lambda () (interactive) (grep "fgrep -Hn '[todo' ~/notes.txt | LANG=C sort -k2 | tee") does my evil bidding Sep 11 13:53:56 ok Sep 11 14:02:02 now if I could get the same result without filename/lineno annotations but preserving the navigability to those locations, that'd rock some more Sep 11 14:02:16 * sp3000 decides this is good enough and leaves that part for another time Sep 11 14:02:39 http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ohptoftimemeasured13sepjy2.png Sep 11 14:03:37 GeneralAntilles: hm, what's that? Sep 11 14:03:53 Screenshot from the LHC Sep 11 14:03:57 Not a clue what any of that means, though. Sep 11 14:04:10 ah :) Sep 11 14:04:14 at lesat they are running kwin :P Sep 11 14:04:36 that's positive? ;) Sep 11 14:04:53 * sp3000 doesn't like that wm theme :) Sep 11 14:04:54 sure :P http://dot.kde.org/1221087118/ Sep 11 14:05:08 * sp3000 thinks he sees a slight usability problem in the lower right side frame :) Sep 11 14:05:21 Hehe Sep 11 14:05:27 "OFF THE CHARTS!" Sep 11 14:05:35 Mek: heh :) Sep 11 14:07:12 keramik was the uttermost biggest design failure in kde history :P Sep 11 14:07:29 * aquatix thinks kde generally is quite ugly Sep 11 14:07:32 nah Sep 11 14:07:35 but that's just my opinion :) Sep 11 14:07:42 it depends on the theme you use Sep 11 14:07:48 there are plenty ugly gtk themes :) Sep 11 14:07:51 * aquatix likes xfce4 with a nice clean gtk theme best Sep 11 14:07:55 jott: sure are Sep 11 14:08:03 so this argument is just pathetic. Sep 11 14:08:29 * jott likes qtcurve :) Sep 11 14:09:19 ah yeah, that clearlooks lookalike Sep 11 14:09:31 that's the best kde theme i know indeed Sep 11 14:10:31 i like it much more than clearlooks :) Sep 11 14:10:59 i like this clearlooks variant: http://aquariusoft.org/gallery/v/screenies/linux/20080801_river.png.html Sep 11 14:11:52 * jott likes light/bright themes. they are more positive :) Sep 11 14:12:43 yeah, i used those for years, but when i came across this one, i rather liked it Sep 11 14:12:50 and it's nice on my eyes at night ;) Sep 11 14:12:51 yeah good for you :) Sep 11 14:12:57 heheheh Sep 11 14:13:23 http://aquariusoft.org/gallery/v/screenies/linux/20080218_galadriel_showcase.png.html <- light ;) Sep 11 14:14:05 I liked my gnome theme, but I lost it in a hdd crash: http://inz.fi/gnome-inz.png Sep 11 14:14:20 inz: created yourself? Sep 11 14:14:27 looks nice indeed Sep 11 14:15:30 aquatix, modified from high contrast Sep 11 14:16:05 aquatix, it actually had even a slightly modified theme engine to use colors a bit differently Sep 11 14:17:19 I used to use a very... particular type of theme in WindowMaker. Black screen, round fairly-large analogue clock in the bottom left. Sep 11 14:17:20 inz: in the future, remember to backup to the nets ;) Sep 11 14:17:24 Minimalism is fun :-) Sep 11 14:17:36 ccooke: :) Sep 11 14:17:43 ccooke: sounds like the default minix setup Sep 11 14:17:43 aquatix, yeah, gots to do that Sep 11 14:17:52 (oh, yes. No panels, icons or other stuff. Just a black screen and a clock.) Sep 11 14:18:55 aquatix, hmm, the theme engine version I had backed up actually compiles... :o Sep 11 14:19:05 \o/ Sep 11 14:20:01 what you need in a window border is something that's not distracting, shows current window well and isn't ugly Sep 11 14:20:03 Ah, yes: http://earth.gkhs.net/ccooke/snapshot4.png :-) Sep 11 14:20:45 ccooke, you're supposed to use xdaliclock! Sep 11 14:21:11 inz: that's a *very* old screenshot. I ended up using something much nicer Sep 11 14:21:20 ... I really have to reimplement that on gnome. Sep 11 14:25:29 Damn, I have no old 'nuff screenshots Sep 11 14:25:53 I have some shots before I started using gnome, but they still have lots'n'lots of stuff in fvwm Sep 11 14:26:12 http://outpo.st/desktop.png "where kicker meets kwin4" :) Sep 11 14:26:48 http://inz.fi/fvwm-shot-new.jpg Sep 11 14:27:58 * aquatix likes the window borders of this setup: http://aquariusoft.org/gallery/v/screenies/linux/20080218_galadriel_showcase.png.html Sep 11 14:28:38 aqua, those look almost like the ones I had in my first fvwm setup Sep 11 14:28:54 aqua, except for the titlebar -- why is there a titlebar Sep 11 14:28:56 this is xfwm4 though Sep 11 14:29:11 fvwm.. thats a long time ago indeed :) Sep 11 14:29:21 jott, not that far ;) Sep 11 14:29:22 inz: well, helps me find the right window in a sea of windows ;) Sep 11 14:29:38 well 10 years? :) Sep 11 14:29:38 aqua, I use virtual desktops Sep 11 14:29:49 inz: me too Sep 11 14:29:58 Someone really need to take Active-X out behind the barn and put it out of it's misery. Sep 11 14:29:59 jott, I still used fvwm at work about a year ago Sep 11 14:30:01 i like a sleek title bar though Sep 11 14:30:09 ah. old habits, eh? :) Sep 11 14:30:22 besides, not sure whether xfwm4 can omit it Sep 11 14:30:27 can try Sep 11 14:30:31 jott: yeah :) Sep 11 14:30:39 inz: heh. These days I use five... With Compiz set to display a transparent cube. Five's the largest number of faces you can have and still see every desktop at once from the other side :-) Sep 11 14:31:10 jott, som'n like that Sep 11 14:31:25 the titlebar is to show the title of the window, in that screenshot half the windows repeat the titlebar for no reason Sep 11 14:31:38 ccooke: i tried the cube once on my home tft, but decided it was too much Sep 11 14:31:44 might have to do with it being a 30" Sep 11 14:31:52 the woosh was too much for me ;) Sep 11 14:32:18 mavhc: repeat? Sep 11 14:32:18 jott, I did use gnome though, just no gnome-panel and fvwm instead of enli^Wsawfi^H^Hmi^Wmetacity Sep 11 14:32:34 mavhc: not sure i follow Sep 11 14:32:43 heh. I've tried it on a 30". Possibly I have it set to move faster than you had, though - doesn't really bother me. Sep 11 14:33:01 ccooke: might try it again :) Sep 11 14:33:15 I actually find the cube helps usability - it gives me spacial awareness of my desktop in a much realer sense than before. Sep 11 14:33:23 I get dizzy, if I use "inside" desktop cube Sep 11 14:33:33 Shame, since I'd like that otherwise better Sep 11 14:33:40 inz: I don't like that Sep 11 14:34:18 i prefer the "zoom out"-paradigm :) Sep 11 14:34:26 ccooke: myeah, the sliding is ok for me too Sep 11 14:35:10 ah that reminds me. it's power** ranting time! :) Sep 11 14:35:17 * jott pokes lcuk Sep 11 14:46:01 aquatix: seems like the window title said "blah config manager", then the top of the window contents sai d"blah config manager" as well Sep 11 14:46:05 wasting space Sep 11 14:46:19 where's my ZUI anyway? Sep 11 14:47:18 mavhc: oh, the taskbar at the top of the screen you mean? Sep 11 14:53:37 no, the window title bars Sep 11 15:00:35 Did you guys hear about the new tablet!? Sep 11 15:01:40 Knowledge, Summit is on the 19th. Sep 11 15:01:51 and trust me, you will know when any information drops. ;) Sep 11 15:02:00 Just keep watching Engadget. Sep 11 15:02:07 damn it....you had to be in here huh? I was trying to see if anyone heard Sep 11 15:02:14 haha yeah Sep 11 15:02:24 I'm just having a tough time not picking up a new touch Sep 11 15:02:31 That htc touch hd has a familiar screen resolution btw ;) Sep 11 15:02:52 will it blend? Sep 11 15:02:53 oh no....not that touch...sorry Sep 11 15:02:55 ipod Sep 11 15:03:00 and yes, I think it does Sep 11 15:03:10 blend Sep 11 15:03:57 yeah good to see more manufactures using sane display resolutions not this 160x120 pixel crap. Sep 11 15:04:52 I just want another gadget that I'm not going to use... Sep 11 15:05:47 the toy brings a geek joy ... for 5 minute :) Sep 11 15:06:12 if that Sep 11 15:06:27 ~rotation is http://wiki.maemo.org/Rotation Sep 11 15:06:32 The wait for UPS is always the best part. . . . Sep 11 15:06:42 ~rotate is http://wiki.maemo.org/Rotation Sep 11 15:06:44 Brown santa? :) Sep 11 15:06:54 I don't remember the last time I used my treo, blackberry, or 770 for anything useful.... Sep 11 15:06:55 grrr infobot offers me stupid rot13 Sep 11 15:06:56 Racist! Sep 11 15:06:58 =) Sep 11 15:07:11 X-Fade, hahaha Sep 11 15:07:21 that is funny Sep 11 15:07:37 so what was this vote about? Sep 11 15:08:12 the newer iPod Touch fixed many of my personal complaints, but it's still lacking in software diversity and I'm not about to play cat and mouse by jailbreaking Sep 11 15:08:30 cat and mouse? how so? Sep 11 15:08:39 Every update you have to re-break. Sep 11 15:08:49 Apple fights the jailbreaking, the community fights Apple Sep 11 15:08:56 Apple hardware is viral Sep 11 15:09:02 makes its users go mad Sep 11 15:09:04 big time Sep 11 15:09:05 The results are only fun for the hackers that get a sick thrill out of breaking it. Sep 11 15:09:18 heyy, I used to be one of those.... Sep 11 15:09:21 until it got boring Sep 11 15:09:23 this alone is a sufficient reason against buying it Sep 11 15:09:27 ~screenrotation is a way to add rotation support to your N8x0 device. Find instructions at http://wiki.maemo.org/Rotation Sep 11 15:09:28 jott: okay Sep 11 15:09:31 ~screenrotation Sep 11 15:09:32 somebody said screenrotation was a way to add rotation support to your N8x0 device. Find instructions at http://wiki.maemo.org/Rotation Sep 11 15:09:39 ~rotation Sep 11 15:09:47 Hahaha Sep 11 15:09:48 yeah it want to rot13 :( Sep 11 15:09:59 infobot, go die in a fire. Sep 11 15:10:02 Maline spongiform encephalopathy? Sep 11 15:10:13 infobot! Sep 11 15:10:13 what on earth? Sep 11 15:10:16 I will say that the Mobile OSX community is developing a quite a pace... it's interesting to watch Sep 11 15:10:21 !rotation Sep 11 15:10:22 jott: Error: "rotation" is not a valid command. Sep 11 15:10:27 a/a/at/ Sep 11 15:10:34 * brontide shoots typist Sep 11 15:10:35 !rotation is a way to add rotation support to your N8x0 device. Find instructions at http://wiki.maemo.org/Rotation Sep 11 15:10:35 jott: Error: "rotation" is not a valid command. Sep 11 15:10:38 grr Sep 11 15:10:53 Lots of bots, all useless ;) Sep 11 15:10:54 ~lart povbot Sep 11 15:10:55 * infobot crushes povbot with a full height scsi disk Sep 11 15:10:57 !lart infobot Sep 11 15:10:57 jott: Error: There are no larts in my database for #maemo. Sep 11 15:11:01 haha Sep 11 15:11:28 lol Sep 11 15:11:28 that scsi disk contained all the larts :) Sep 11 15:11:35 yeah, fuck the touch....it's just another device I'd have to carry without too much function... Sep 11 15:11:41 I'd rather wait for the new tablet Sep 11 15:12:00 although, I am going to get one for my girl. Sep 11 15:12:08 Knowledge: don't forget we have android coming out if the n900 is not shiny enough for ya Sep 11 15:12:22 Android for the tablet? Sep 11 15:12:27 Knowledge: to make her touch you? i think you misunderstood something there :) Sep 11 15:12:28 No in general Sep 11 15:12:43 haha jott Sep 11 15:12:47 Ew Android Sep 11 15:12:52 More shiny new toys to fondle in the store Sep 11 15:13:04 oh...yeah android, I didn't follow up on it at all... Sep 11 15:13:15 did someone make screen rotation easier becuase the instructions used to be alot longer then the ones at http://wiki.maemo.org/Rotation Sep 11 15:13:17 yeah but android hopefully will bring some nice devices. Sep 11 15:13:22 I have a few cloned phones that supposedly run android but screw it... Sep 11 15:13:38 andrewfblack: it's easier on diablo. and we just rewrote them a bit. Sep 11 15:13:45 Yeah, andrewfblack, jott and qwerty12 improved the packaging a bit and I delete the old, crap, device-breaking howto. ;) Sep 11 15:13:49 wait, let me rephrase Sep 11 15:14:02 the could run android...they don't currently Sep 11 15:14:23 Just a word of warning, any article that mentions Red Pill is probably going to be deleted by me. :) Sep 11 15:14:30 GeneralAntilles cool I'll have to give it a try I screen rotation has caused many reflashes for me and I gave it up at one point Sep 11 15:14:43 GeneralAntilles Why is that? Sep 11 15:14:58 Because Red Pill is evil and there's practically no reason to recommend it to anyone. Sep 11 15:15:09 if the 810 had a dpad on the outside, I would have one of those right now....but once someone mentioned that it doesn't (in this chan) I didn't want it anymore Sep 11 15:15:13 GeneralAntilles: i had a nightmare where some evil person did that.. no kidding Sep 11 15:15:29 Knowledge: the nokia d-pads suck anyway :( Sep 11 15:15:37 You may want to change wget for something like maemo-mini-curl which I believe is stock Sep 11 15:15:40 well, it's better than nothing. Sep 11 15:15:59 brontide: wget is not preinstalled? Sep 11 15:16:05 No, it's not Sep 11 15:16:08 oh Sep 11 15:16:09 It's in Extras, though. Sep 11 15:16:12 yeah, red pill sucked Sep 11 15:16:18 * jott is used to all this basic tools :) Sep 11 15:16:18 waste of time Sep 11 15:16:34 Well, Red Pill doesn't really "suck" Sep 11 15:16:36 Knowledge I was working on a gamepad accessory for the n810 but so is Craves1 on itT and he has more money and resurces then me so I hope in the near future we will have decent game controls on the n810 Sep 11 15:16:38 It's a tool like any other Sep 11 15:16:49 The problem is that people recommend it like some sort of magical fix-all. Sep 11 15:17:17 maemo-mini-curl -o Sep 11 15:17:30 ok Sep 11 15:17:40 just checked it's preinstalled Sep 11 15:17:46 I *believe* it's stock Sep 11 15:17:49 i'll fix the wiki :) Sep 11 15:17:52 brontide, will that be an acceptable substitution for most uses of wget on the wiki? Sep 11 15:17:54 well I never really planned on gaming on the 810, just browsing...without having the keyboard open all the time. Sep 11 15:17:55 500 http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com ./ Packages Sep 11 15:18:09 GeneralAntilles: yes Sep 11 15:18:13 GeneralAntilles: I believe so unless you are doing something complicated Sep 11 15:18:17 OK, will keep that in mind Sep 11 15:18:19 GeneralAntilles: it does not support multiple files though :) Sep 11 15:18:24 There are a couple other articles that use wget Sep 11 15:18:34 and needs a -o Sep 11 15:18:42 knowledge well the dpad on the gamepad could be used for anything Sep 11 15:18:46 Most of what people use wget for is save url -> file and maemo-mini-curl is a fine substitute Sep 11 15:18:50 I see Sep 11 15:19:07 ~lart Windows for being such a pain to setup DBV-T software on, and Freecom for that matter for their crappy drivers! Sep 11 15:19:07 * infobot breaks out the Hoover and sucks up Windows for being such a pain to setup DBV-T software on, and Freecom for that matter for their crappy drivers! Sep 11 15:19:14 * GeneralAntilles chuckles at the guy using Comic Sans on the Beagle list. Sep 11 15:19:17 the only thing that makes the ipod touch so appealing is the amount of support/developement behind it Sep 11 15:19:37 Knowledge, yeah, all the support and development that's $$$. ;) Sep 11 15:20:20 well, not really. There are 36 pages of apps that are free for it... Sep 11 15:20:28 We have a lot of people who can do support and development for the nit but its getting people off there butt and doing some stuff thats the hard part lol Sep 11 15:20:51 Yeah, well, there's exactly ONE for-pay Maemo application. :P Sep 11 15:21:18 there are some days I wouldn't mind having a touch for a few of the features but I wouldn't replace my tablet with it just like I'm getting a netbook next month but not to replace tablet Sep 11 15:21:35 I didn't know there was a for-pay maemo applicaiton Sep 11 15:21:47 bah, you and your reasoning....stop it (thanks though...everytime I want to buy an ipod touch I come in here) Sep 11 15:21:57 Some sort of PIM thing for notes. Sep 11 15:21:57 wayfinder Sep 11 15:22:04 Ah, well, that too. Sep 11 15:22:18 TWO applications. :P Sep 11 15:22:19 ok changed to maemo-mini-curl Sep 11 15:22:23 no wayfinder is free just naviagtion costs Sep 11 15:22:37 GeneralAntilles: And this palm emulator? Sep 11 15:22:45 Garnet is free Sep 11 15:22:49 but if you think about it garmin charges more for new maps then wayfinder costs year so I don't know why people complain since wayfinder maps are free Sep 11 15:22:58 this xserver-xomap line breaks straight out of my screen now :) Sep 11 15:23:00 Wasn't there supposed to be a commercial version? Sep 11 15:23:17 maybe just use -o 1.deb -o 2.deb .. mmh :) Sep 11 15:23:53 X-Fade, no, not that I recall. Sep 11 15:24:06 X-Fade: I'd like to remove some old packages from repo... Sep 11 15:24:10 GeneralAntilles: Hmm ok ;) Sep 11 15:24:12 Sorry guys, I know I've asked this a million times, but what's the next logical processor for the nit? Sep 11 15:24:18 mikkov_: You and me both... ;) Sep 11 15:24:21 OMAP3430 Sep 11 15:24:25 Knowledge, write it down. Sep 11 15:24:32 make a poster! Sep 11 15:25:15 X-Fade: I combined openlierox data packages, but app manager shows uninstallable packages too Sep 11 15:25:23 Knowledge: there is a huge thread on iTT, just start there... by the time you are done they will have anounced new hardware ;-) Sep 11 15:25:34 mikkov_: Which ones do you want removed? Sep 11 15:25:35 haha Sep 11 15:26:16 are there any hams in here? Sep 11 15:26:32 X-Fade: they are are only in extras-devel now. I promote and tell after that ;) Sep 11 15:26:50 guess not Sep 11 15:26:57 mikkov_: Don't mess up extras please :D Sep 11 15:27:15 * GeneralAntilles hands X-Fade a cattle prod. Sep 11 15:27:33 GeneralAntilles: Nah, mikkov generally knows what he is doing ;) Sep 11 15:29:19 Besides the HTC diamond, are there any other devices that are "similar" to what we speculate the n900 will be? Sep 11 15:29:46 Pandora Sep 11 15:29:52 iPhone? =) Sep 11 15:29:56 Archos 5, maybe. Sep 11 15:30:02 I wonder what it's going to cost... Sep 11 15:30:03 Though the Archos has really, really shitty software. Sep 11 15:30:08 $500 mark I'm assuming Sep 11 15:30:24 any harm won't be done ;) Sep 11 15:30:54 Priceless: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/091008-san-francisco-hunts-for-mystery.html?hpg1=bn Sep 11 15:31:11 Maybe THAT is the fabled N900? Sep 11 15:31:45 No pictures, didn't read Sep 11 15:32:28 RST38h: haha :) Sep 11 15:33:11 wait, if the n810 has TV out capabilities...why isn't it implemented? Sep 11 15:33:24 Knowledge: at $500 the n900 would not be attractive unless it made dinner and picked up the kids Sep 11 15:33:27 marketing thinking they couldn't sell it? Sep 11 15:33:28 :P Sep 11 15:33:30 X-Fade: I want to keep openlierox packages (openlierox, openlierox-data-all) with version 0.57.beta5+svnr2283-0maemo2, everything else can go. Sep 11 15:33:50 brontide: I'd settle for a BJ... Sep 11 15:33:50 brontide, the N800 started at $399 and the N810 at $479. . . . Sep 11 15:33:54 they will just clutter application manager Sep 11 15:33:59 mikkov_: From extras? Sep 11 15:34:23 X-Fade: yes, from extras. extras-devel doen't matter Sep 11 15:34:27 brontide: location based services is the magic trick to get you dinner and automatically call a cab for your kids :P Sep 11 15:34:30 Knowledge: because they don't use the omap2 video buffer ( external epson to drive the 800x480 ) I don't know how useful the tv out would be Sep 11 15:34:45 I see. Sep 11 15:34:53 Knowledge: the answer is they didn't bother connecting the wires Sep 11 15:35:01 haha Sep 11 15:35:13 that's true unfortunately ... Sep 11 15:35:23 Still this past year has brought a wave of sub $500 computing options and I don't see a $500 n900 being viable at this point Sep 11 15:35:23 Knowledge: probably cost saving, looks like they'd need at least one extra component if they wanted output Sep 11 15:35:27 X-Fade: better solution would be smarter application manager ;) Sep 11 15:35:30 maybe also power saving.. Sep 11 15:35:31 mikkov_: So levelpacks and modpacks can go? Sep 11 15:36:02 X-Fade: yes, i combined them to data-all (can be installed to sd-card) Sep 11 15:36:10 No small amount of software work for TV out, either. Sep 11 15:38:07 Just a heads up I released a New Superman Based Theme and Updates to 3 of my other ones just a few mins ago. Homepage: http://themehackers.maemobox.org/ Download: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/themehackers/ Sep 11 15:38:34 No screenshots? Sep 11 15:40:04 mikkov_: Ok, done. Sep 11 15:40:38 X-Fade: great! thanks you Sep 11 15:40:41 Ah, Mr. Haury, one vs the world Sep 11 15:41:35 screenshots at at the homepage Sep 11 15:41:50 I'll have some of the superman theme later, Sep 11 15:42:15 Ah. 20:25 is when my plane leaves again on wednesday. Hmm. If someone arrives to the pub a bit early, I might get to meet someone. Sep 11 15:43:26 * andrewfblack wishes he was going to Summit Sep 11 15:43:46 what's the big deal with this summit? Sep 11 15:44:08 First big Maemo get together? Sep 11 15:44:31 GeneralAntilles your not going are you? Sep 11 15:44:38 Up to 179 registered participants now. Sep 11 15:44:38 Nope Sep 11 15:44:55 good atleast it will be you and me in IRC then Sep 11 15:45:18 and i bet a few more local folks also drop by. Sep 11 15:46:25 Damn... 179 between three tracks... I don't know if the rooms are going to be big enough Sep 11 15:46:53 brontide: Well usually 2 are ;) Sep 11 15:46:59 they better have lots of AP's since that 179 * 1-3 wifi devices Sep 11 15:47:00 brontide: The thrid one however... Sep 11 15:47:51 I think we are gonna have standing room only presentations Sep 11 15:48:06 should be interesting Sep 11 15:49:09 how many people did nokia sponsor to go? Sep 11 15:50:07 andrewfblack: At least 50. Sep 11 15:50:54 how to add something on the wiki.maemo.org start page? it would be good to have "Extras" linked from the user documentation box. Sep 11 15:51:16 jott: Ask the Council ;) Sep 11 15:51:59 * jott is alone in #maemo-council :( Sep 11 15:52:24 is that the decided chat room? Sep 11 15:52:39 i don't think so. Sep 11 15:52:54 I know ;) Sep 11 15:53:13 GeneralAntilles: did we make a decision about where on #irc? Should be logged Sep 11 15:53:21 * jott holds the op .. just in case :) Sep 11 15:53:36 hmm, anyone else have had their n810 keyboard keys scratched by the slide mechsanism? Sep 11 15:53:44 Getkeys: Me. Sep 11 15:53:45 #maemo Sep 11 15:53:58 GeneralAntilles: do you know how to modify that box? :) Sep 11 15:54:03 jott, edit the Template:Users or similar. Sep 11 15:54:07 It's one of the templates. Sep 11 15:54:41 ah Template: Sep 11 15:54:46 thanks Sep 11 15:57:57 ugh the development box is outdated too :p Sep 11 15:58:40 * lardman needs a beer Sep 11 16:00:38 lardman, Jaffa, etrunko, jott's brought us our first issue to take up with Nokia. Sep 11 16:00:45 The sorry state of the diablo-1/ repository. Sep 11 16:01:00 GeneralAntilles: did you win? Sep 11 16:01:08 how should we organise this? Sep 11 16:01:09 http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/bootchart.con-startpar.png <- deblet with startpar (parallel boot scripts), doesn't really help much Sep 11 16:01:11 wiki page? Sep 11 16:01:12 :P Sep 11 16:01:17 mxr.maemo.org down? Sep 11 16:01:19 timeless: ^^? Sep 11 16:01:45 I mean organise the various requests that is Sep 11 16:02:04 hehehe i know there are no winners but well done :) Sep 11 16:02:17 now go and change washington for the people!!! Sep 11 16:02:17 Stskeeps, yeah, CPU is pegged out the whole time Sep 11 16:02:23 oh wait ... wrong election Sep 11 16:02:40 More generally speaking, getting some sort of signal out of the Maemo release team. Sep 11 16:02:49 A "Community issues" wiki page, lardman? Sep 11 16:03:13 yeah, where people can request, and somewhere where we can make some notes on progress, etc. Sep 11 16:03:22 GeneralAntilles: if you need any web programming help let me know :) Sep 11 16:03:24 I guess some sort of an index page that'll link off to other pages with more detail Sep 11 16:03:36 moontiger, maemo.org needs all the web programming help it can get. Sep 11 16:03:53 i teach php+mysql+apache and i do it for a living so i can help Sep 11 16:03:56 Seriously, if you want to help out there, get with X-Fade or somebody. Sep 11 16:04:06 moontiger: all the source code is available. Sep 11 16:04:09 There's no shortage of stuff to be done. ;) Sep 11 16:04:17 (for the websites) Sep 11 16:04:27 coolio ... i will get in touch with xfade and get stuck in Sep 11 16:04:32 Hi ! Sep 11 16:04:42 hi Khertan :) Sep 11 16:05:07 lardman, but, yeah, an overview page of the current issues the council is actively pursuing. Sep 11 16:05:19 We could probably lift most of the Sprint organizational setup for it. Sep 11 16:06:10 As much for us to keep track of where we are as for the electorate to know what we;re doing Sep 11 16:06:18 Heck, maybe we should just integrate with it. Sep 11 16:06:30 Do we really need a separate setup? Sep 11 16:06:34 or have a lil custom tracking system built? Sep 11 16:08:33 Probably worth bringing up on -community Sep 11 16:10:00 what's with maemo.org, very slow all day Sep 11 16:10:11 Database dump was going on earlier. Sep 11 16:10:15 X-Fade: Changelog size is limited? "The value of this field may not be longer then 800 characters." :( Sep 11 16:10:15 Probably still is Sep 11 16:10:20 i have a code base i could extend and use if you were interested Sep 11 16:10:39 mikkov_, don't blame me, I said it should be 1200! It's all on X-Fade's head! :D Sep 11 16:11:02 johnx: i honestly think we'd gain 10-20 seconds by simply running mount -t jffs /dev/mtdblock4 /mnt/new_root/mnt/rootfs & in linuxrc.. Sep 11 16:11:31 it blocks for a long time, huh? Sep 11 16:11:34 yea Sep 11 16:12:02 * Stskeeps pokes deblet wireless with a stick Sep 11 16:12:20 * johnx works on getting a working OS on his zaurus... Sep 11 16:12:27 GeneralAntilles: I would need 1732 characters ;) maybe it is too lenghty then Sep 11 16:16:41 Outlook just suggested Osama as a replacement for OSiM Sep 11 16:20:35 osama searches international mercenaries ? Sep 11 16:24:08 johnx: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/bootchart.early-jffs.png Sep 11 16:24:35 Alright, pinged community about the wiki organization. Sep 11 16:25:28 Stskeeps: nice :) Sep 11 16:25:45 Wow, that is faster Sep 11 16:26:26 jffs is a hog Sep 11 16:27:22 It needs to die already. Sep 11 16:27:36 eh? Sep 11 16:27:40 and be replaced with...? Sep 11 16:27:49 There's something in the pipeline Sep 11 16:27:51 i vote for zfs Sep 11 16:27:51 :P Sep 11 16:27:53 don't recall the name. Sep 11 16:28:03 i would love zfs for tablets.. snapshots++ Sep 11 16:28:13 clusters! :) Sep 11 16:28:16 I want to see a tablet with 1GB of NAND boot with jffs2 Sep 11 16:28:20 just do lvm2 on your sd card :) Sep 11 16:28:28 20 usb stick raids :) Sep 11 16:28:32 GeneralAntilles, they'd just use a system partition Sep 11 16:29:01 is internal flash (as in mtdblock) actually faster than MMC? Sep 11 16:29:12 like, do clone-to-SD people feel a slowdown? Sep 11 16:29:54 i think it's got faster :) Sep 11 16:30:14 SD is mostly faster due since it hasn't got compression to deal with Sep 11 16:30:27 If you've got a decent card, anyway. Sep 11 16:30:34 s/due// Sep 11 16:32:55 but i think 50s for a full debian to boot up is impressive on the tablets Sep 11 16:42:08 "full debian" might actually mean less daemons than maemo has, depending on configuration ;) Sep 11 16:42:14 anyone have had real luck with providing a updated debian devkit for scratchbox? (something with a up to date dpkg, up to date debhelper, up to date cdbs, ...) Sep 11 16:43:10 heh...there is that :) Sep 11 16:43:14 on the n810 you could even reasonably use only console, no X11 Sep 11 16:44:39 bah, what is it that I sometimes just cannot resist trolls. Sep 11 16:45:16 that the trolls are too god ? Sep 11 16:45:28 heh :) Sep 11 16:47:55 Mr. Haury? Sep 11 16:48:24 yup. Sep 11 16:48:36 Yeah, he is something to behold. Sep 11 16:48:56 Try replying to a question with just a URL if you wan to toy with him some more. Sep 11 16:51:43 and I did not even adress is "open source is ego-massage"-stance... :) Sep 11 16:52:04 I wonder what his angle is Sep 11 16:52:07 oh crap! Sep 11 16:52:24 i left my 810 charging today with a book ontop and its well hot :S Sep 11 16:52:27 He's, mostly, single-handedly made -users an unbearable place to be. Sep 11 16:52:42 lcuk, it's allowed to get hot. Sep 11 16:53:12 i know that, but its like a pocket hand warmer now - its not normally kept in a completely 100% enclosed space Sep 11 16:53:19 Pretty much all of the longest flamewars there are his fault. Sep 11 16:53:38 I'm in favor of banishment, myself. Sep 11 16:53:43 ah, wondered what you lot were on about Sep 11 16:53:51 the wonders of digest :) Sep 11 16:54:39 which ML is this? Sep 11 16:54:50 -users Sep 11 16:54:50 * lcuk wonders if hes missin some fun Sep 11 16:54:58 Not really Sep 11 16:55:15 It's nowhere near as impressive a Sep 11 16:55:20 s Darius Sep 11 16:55:21 which thread cos they all seem run of the mill barring the activex suggestion Sep 11 16:55:33 Modest Sep 11 16:55:48 The one that's 30,000 messages long. Sep 11 16:56:00 ahhh i kept out of that one, i have no experience and havent even setup mail on mine Sep 11 16:56:13 73 actually :P Sep 11 16:56:32 it makes gmail look cool when it displays all the names folded up Sep 11 16:56:41 He's just some idiot who thinks he knows something and loves trying to slug out the 'me vs the world' arguments over the dumbest shit. Sep 11 16:58:24 yer - now, more important matters - council members, hows it sinking in, are you glad the election stage is over and are you all settling into your new roles Sep 11 16:58:56 * lcuk is glad the person he voted forwas elected Sep 11 16:59:49 Now the real work starts Sep 11 17:00:44 planning council meetings (in remote destinations) and setting up a maemo justice system to punish the trolls? Sep 11 17:01:51 Nah, impossing our will on you sad lot. >:D Sep 11 17:02:35 GAN800, goodluckwiththat :) Sep 11 17:02:44 it's like herding cats... Sep 11 17:03:48 gan, you are sounding like sarah palin - power is goin to your head :P give it a week and you will be coming into the irc chan in a military uniform :D :P Sep 11 17:04:38 lcuk, don't try to talk American politics. :P Sep 11 17:04:43 and in a bit gan will be talking about the difference betweeen him and a pitbull .. is the lipstick Sep 11 17:05:00 likewise yourself :) Sep 11 17:05:32 lol Stskeeps Sep 11 17:06:00 Europeans talking American politics are almost as sad as me talking European politics. Sep 11 17:06:28 heh Sep 11 17:06:57 as in politics is sad? Sep 11 17:07:06 i wasnt talkin politics i merely pointed out you are transforming from GeneralAntilles: irc user+wiki master into something a whole lot more :D Sep 11 17:07:19 lardman, don't read too much into it. I was just thinking about local politics... Sep 11 17:07:39 fair enough Sep 11 17:07:41 lcuk, are you saying he's more than meets the eye? Sep 11 17:07:55 lcuk: didn't you get a clue with the name? Sep 11 17:08:09 lcuk: soon to be FieldMarshalAntilles Sep 11 17:08:10 hah! I love how Mark just confirms my predictions about his arguments... :) Sep 11 17:08:48 GAN800: probably makes no sense to you lot over there, is General as high as your ranks go? Sep 11 17:08:59 Not in the Navy. :P Sep 11 17:09:07 yer i know, but he couldnt use his nickname outside of the internet - now he is a bona-fide community council god Sep 11 17:09:24 GeneralAntilles: yeah, not many Generals in the navy though ;) Sep 11 17:09:28 http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/insignias/officers.html Sep 11 17:09:51 much like yourself lardman :) Sep 11 17:10:10 * lcuk now worries that hes surrounded by gods and begins to phear you all Sep 11 17:11:24 lol . . . non-English Maemo communities Sep 11 17:11:28 Now there's a can of worms. Sep 11 17:11:40 Stuff like this is why I'm in favor of the _maemo.org_ Community Council Sep 11 17:12:10 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=223078&postcount=85 Sep 11 17:14:09 Somebody propose a vote to have the next person to continue arguing in that stupid Modest thread kicked off the list. Sep 11 17:14:27 Sorry for the slight delay, mad wasp attack Sep 11 17:14:36 Nokia isn t looking for teleworking developper to work on maemo ? Sep 11 17:14:40 So I guess our Field Marshal is your General of the Army Sep 11 17:14:52 Those white protestants can be quite a handful. Sep 11 17:15:09 Khertan_n810, not directly, sorry :( Sep 11 17:15:17 :( Sep 11 17:15:25 * Solarion fills GeneralAntilles' hands. Sep 11 17:15:27 * lcuk muddies the waters :D Sep 11 17:15:44 i m tired of doing 3h30 of train each days Sep 11 17:15:45 Khertan_n810, but there's a number of companies who work around maemo.org, who might be willing to do that... Sep 11 17:16:07 MishaS if you have some name of french company ... Sep 11 17:16:22 i ll be happy :) Sep 11 17:16:35 lardman, there was a bee sting accident today - i saw it in the news, 6 people died after a truck carrying a hive crashed - the swarm attacked other road users and caused the second crash Sep 11 17:17:04 Khertan_n810, you'd probably be happy if i not only have such a name, but also share it, right? :) Sep 11 17:17:19 GeneralAntilles: Maybe if the "Maemo brand" was clearer, but right now it's as clear as mud Sep 11 17:17:20 yep :) Sep 11 17:17:22 Khertan_n810, sorry, my too special sense of some call humor :-/ Sep 11 17:17:22 MishaS, :) you are right, theres lots - now i wonder whether we can get any of those companies together at any point Sep 11 17:17:34 Khertan can work for Open Ismus as the official maaem.org whipping boy. Sep 11 17:17:48 whipping ? Sep 11 17:17:51 lcuk, some of them will be present @ maemo summit i think Sep 11 17:18:13 brontide, the brand is perfectly clear Sep 11 17:18:20 MishaS, i already know this :) im hoping to have a word with some of them myself Sep 11 17:18:29 What some people have confused is the community issue. Sep 11 17:18:44 me too :) Sep 11 17:18:53 Ok, I shall say the documentation on the brannnding is unclear Sep 11 17:19:18 Khertan, you get us drinks and mop the floors. :P Sep 11 17:19:27 brontide, what's not clear? Sep 11 17:20:29 http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand Sep 11 17:20:47 * MishaS . o O (jobs: companies & people is probably one thing council could look into... :)) Sep 11 17:21:16 Yeah, I know what you're talking about, but what's not clear about it? Sep 11 17:21:24 hum i like the openismus web site Sep 11 17:21:28 Ummm... all the definitions Sep 11 17:21:35 well some of them make sense Sep 11 17:21:55 brontide, be specific. Sep 11 17:22:03 and put it on the talk page. Sep 11 17:22:11 Khertan_n810, privmsg Sep 11 17:22:23 If nobody knows what's confusing, then it can't be improved. Sep 11 17:22:35 It's already on the talk page Sep 11 17:23:28 I'm off, cu later Sep 11 17:23:29 I can put more on the talk page, but right now the branding in unclear and anytime you add "community" you are bound to confuse people Sep 11 17:23:32 Khertan_n810, btw, what your message in maemo-devel was about? :) Sep 11 17:24:24 MishaS: which one ? Sep 11 17:24:34 the 3 letter one ? Sep 11 17:24:43 Khertan_n810, yes, 3 letter one :) Sep 11 17:25:22 i ve leave the mailing list waiting to join it later maybe Sep 11 17:25:38 Khertan_n810, ah... any particular reason? :) Sep 11 17:26:46 MishaS: the people which claim that there idea are better and that everyone should do what they said Sep 11 17:26:52 +s Sep 11 17:27:04 brontide, I don't see it. Sep 11 17:27:13 Khertan_n810, :D Sep 11 17:27:26 I am adding a new section, but it will be a rehash of some of the erlier discussions Sep 11 17:27:39 Khertan_n810, just ignore them... Sep 11 17:27:57 i prefer wasting my time to code than to filter them Sep 11 17:28:03 * MishaS . o O (and this idea is better than leaving the list :)) Sep 11 17:28:23 but i think that in a month or two problem will be solved Sep 11 17:28:46 just let time doing his wok Sep 11 17:28:50 work Sep 11 17:29:06 and i was a bit furious against some guys Sep 11 17:29:15 * nomis hereby promises to no longer participate in this pop/imap discussion... :) Sep 11 17:29:39 nomis, you can't decide what is better? :D Sep 11 17:29:41 and prefer do not say something that i wont to say Sep 11 17:29:42 * MishaS ducks and runs.... Sep 11 17:30:06 i don t want to say Sep 11 17:30:14 nomis, speaking honestly, my goal is mostly to get a rise out of Mark and het him voted off. :p Sep 11 17:30:35 Khertan_n810, on peut le comprendre... :D Sep 11 17:32:03 do you speak french ? Sep 11 17:33:55 Khertan_n810, not really :) i used to... but 7 years of no practice... now i got a french teammate and practice it a bit, but still it's far from being what it used to be then... :D Sep 11 17:34:09 Khertan_n810, are you coming to maemo summit? Sep 11 17:34:13 yep Sep 11 17:34:32 Khertan_n810, then you might see eric le roux (who's my french teammate :)) Sep 11 17:35:06 Khertan_n810, and by looking at what you did (mContact/mCalendar) you might want to talk to yannick pellet (who's accidently a french as well)... Sep 11 17:36:38 mContacts isn t finished yet Sep 11 17:36:53 Khertan_n810, i mean the area... :) Sep 11 17:36:55 i should hurry up to found a better ui Sep 11 17:37:03 :) Sep 11 17:37:27 Khertan_n810, yannick is not necessarily interested directly, but he might direct you to right people... Sep 11 17:37:29 http://khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot31.png Sep 11 17:37:34 lol yer, we are all looking for a new ui Sep 11 17:37:48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQB9s72Y6iA Sep 11 17:37:59 great Sep 11 17:41:58 hi marius Sep 11 17:42:11 hi lcuk Sep 11 17:42:18 are you all ready for next week? Sep 11 17:42:29 hello mgedmin. your bot needs love :) Sep 11 17:42:55 * mgedmin is overworked and overtired Sep 11 17:42:56 * Khertan_n810 s connection could drop ... peer is near Sep 11 17:42:59 what kind of love? Sep 11 17:43:04 who knows.. Sep 11 17:43:30 some attention, you know. stories to listen to and enjoy etc :) Sep 11 17:43:54 i know that feeling mg, coming home after work and trying to get liqbase into shape is tiring - im not even sure ill have everything i want in place Sep 11 17:44:05 but - just relax for now. Sep 11 17:44:46 * lcuk always gets hungry now when running it Sep 11 17:44:57 lcuk: just watch it scroll a bit. it will draw your attention soon enough :) Sep 11 17:45:20 its the starfield, something seems "different about it recently Sep 11 17:45:42 something is wrong with our universe. Sep 11 17:46:11 * MishaS thinks about big andron collider (or whatever that thing is called) Sep 11 17:46:20 hadron Sep 11 17:46:21 * Khertan_n810 is clearly not ready Sep 11 17:46:31 when i was younger on my amiga i would fall asleep with a starfield similar to the maemo one :) it had 10,000 stars meandering through and because of the way it clusters it was sometimes like a plane flying over clouds and othertimes like driving through a road with trees Sep 11 17:46:36 jott: what is it this time? Sep 11 17:46:39 rm_you, even worse :) Sep 11 17:46:47 hey rm_you :D Sep 11 17:47:04 this is the particul acellerator from the cern ? Sep 11 17:47:04 :P Sep 11 17:47:13 Khertan_n810, yes :) Sep 11 17:47:20 accelerator Sep 11 17:47:22 :) Sep 11 17:47:24 yes Khertan, you died yesterday when europe mainland blew up Sep 11 17:47:26 LHC = Large Hadron Collider = happy fun physics times :P Sep 11 17:47:30 and that's what is wrong with our universe Sep 11 17:47:36 you wont find out about it till next week though Sep 11 17:47:39 johnx: :P Sep 11 17:47:52 hi rm_you :) not seen you around too much Sep 11 17:48:00 school <_< Sep 11 17:48:02 are you ready for your marathon trek Sep 11 17:48:02 i pop in and out Sep 11 17:48:07 heh Sep 11 17:48:11 yeah I got my shirts in Sep 11 17:48:15 they're pretty sweet Sep 11 17:48:27 first collision is planned for december Sep 11 17:48:30 im gonna call ahead to the tsa and warn them about you :P Sep 11 17:48:40 I was thinking about selling a few of em there, but I may just end up giving a few to some select people :P Sep 11 17:48:45 lcuk: what size do you wear? :P Sep 11 17:48:50 so we can t die yesterday Sep 11 17:49:04 Khertan, its a black hole, time does not work properly Sep 11 17:49:13 didnt john titor send a message back yesterday? Sep 11 17:49:31 * Khertan_n810 will wear an unik one with the better logo ever draw : http://khertan.net/poubelle/logo1.png Sep 11 17:50:27 :) Sep 11 17:50:33 http://gist.github.com/raw/9810/3d283aedf220519e465cf0215bb4dc8f7c1206f5 Sep 11 17:50:45 lol Sep 11 17:51:02 people here particularly liked how the butterfly one turned out Sep 11 17:51:32 !!!!!! so THATS what i wanted the missus to do when she went shopping Sep 11 17:51:32 lcuk: Error: "!!!!!" is not a valid command. Sep 11 17:51:38 i spent about an hour trying to remember Sep 11 17:51:49 :O omg i poked povbot Sep 11 17:51:52 lol Sep 11 17:51:57 do what lcuk? Sep 11 17:52:04 get my tshirt printed Sep 11 17:52:20 it might have to be a magic marker on a plain one at this time Sep 11 17:52:33 héhé Sep 11 17:54:24 :( back later, am off to the hospital Sep 11 17:55:16 ping jott Sep 11 17:55:56 :( Sep 11 17:55:56 lcuk: WHAT SIZE DO YOU WEAR?! >_< Sep 11 17:56:07 anyone know which backend phonon is using for the Qt4 garage packages? Sep 11 17:56:14 gstreamer, mplayer, xine, other? Sep 11 17:58:15 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3050668 Sep 11 17:58:27 That's classic Sep 11 17:59:03 They tell you not to do something but you do it anyway because you think you know better then blame it on Nokia. Sep 11 17:59:17 that link not workin GAN800 Sep 11 17:59:41 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=223108#post223108 Sep 11 18:01:07 the funny thing is he got his tablet back pretty quick unlike a lot of other people that sent them in, in the past... Sep 11 18:01:16 * Khertan_n810 must go on ... Sep 11 18:01:20 bye Sep 11 18:02:27 brontide, Maemo is capitalized. . . . Sep 11 18:02:48 Depends on the trademark page you read Sep 11 18:02:54 No. Sep 11 18:02:57 yes Sep 11 18:03:08 It's always capitalized. Sep 11 18:03:17 old pages need to be updated Sep 11 18:03:20 http://maemo.org/legal/terms_of_use/trademarks/ Sep 11 18:03:34 This is the page linked from the Branding page Sep 11 18:03:39 But that doesn't change the fact that Maemo is always capitalized. Sep 11 18:03:50 It' deprecated. Sep 11 18:03:58 Waiting on Nokia legal. Sep 11 18:04:21 and bugzilla _does_ track community bugs Sep 11 18:04:21 I got my 770 but I can't seem to get it to update via the computer to new firmware Sep 11 18:04:32 I hold down the power button till the USB icon shows up, let go... Sep 11 18:04:38 but it doesn't seem to connect and just boots up normally Sep 11 18:04:49 Maemo is completely a Nokia trademark Sep 11 18:05:23 is there some sort of driver I need to install on my PC first? my used 770 didn't come with any disk Sep 11 18:05:32 maemo.org and Maemo are two separate trademarks Sep 11 18:05:32 Maemo is also the community Sep 11 18:05:44 maemo.org is for community use. Sep 11 18:06:12 "Maemo - Open source software platform for mobile devices. Developed by Nokia in collaboration with the Maemo community and some of the best open source upstream projects." Sep 11 18:06:36 It's a Nokia trademark Sep 11 18:06:58 What that trademark repressents doesn't change the fact it's owned by Nokia. Sep 11 18:07:07 Honestly maemo.org is a domain name, and any differention that we apply to it will be lost on anyone not versed in trademark and branding Sep 11 18:07:40 anyone? Sep 11 18:08:00 Alystair: no, it should show up as a mass storage device Sep 11 18:08:20 the tablet setup wizard does not find it :/ Sep 11 18:08:45 Mozilla and mozilla.org share a similar setup Sep 11 18:09:03 Anyway, whatever, Peter and Quim can explain it. Sep 11 18:09:10 it becomes a mass storage device and the setup tool says it cannot find it Sep 11 18:09:56 Alystair: are you trying to use the updater? Sep 11 18:10:00 yep Sep 11 18:10:06 then follow the direction Sep 11 18:10:30 Turn it off, unplug it from power, plug in usb turn on holding down Home. Sep 11 18:10:49 home button, not the power button? Sep 11 18:11:05 turn it on while holding the home button Sep 11 18:11:09 ohhhhhhhhhhh Sep 11 18:11:28 there we go Sep 11 18:12:02 ah wow it already has latest firmware on it D: Sep 11 18:12:21 I should switch to Maemo or whatever? Sep 11 18:13:03 heh Sep 11 18:13:48 I want to develop things in python on this device but don't know crap about it yet :/ Sep 11 18:33:24 where is the getting started section :( Sep 11 18:35:07 if you're on a 770 with OS2006 then you're on maemo 2.2 I think Sep 11 18:35:17 and you want to code in python? Sep 11 18:35:43 I want to make a nice front end for a point of sale app Sep 11 18:35:47 yeah Sep 11 18:36:20 I thought Maemo was custom firmware, not from Nokia? Sep 11 18:36:28 mamona is custom Sep 11 18:36:46 maemo is the base software stack for Nokia, just the core stuff Sep 11 18:37:07 OS2006 = maemo 2.2 = gregale Sep 11 18:37:41 there is no way to put 07/08 on the 770? Sep 11 18:37:56 there is, OS2007/08HE Sep 11 18:38:02 you can put 2007 or 2008 "hacker edition" but people say it's pretty slow Sep 11 18:38:23 ah Sep 11 18:39:59 so how do I install apps from maemo.org? just direct my in-tablet browser to the site? Sep 11 18:40:32 ah that worked Sep 11 18:44:04 Alystair: odd question, how much space do you have on your OS2006 right now? Sep 11 18:44:24 as in, free space on the OS partition Sep 11 18:44:43 uh it came with the crappy 64mb card Sep 11 18:44:53 it's totally vanilla at the moment Sep 11 18:45:10 yeah, but i was talking about the / partition :P Sep 11 18:45:24 the one where OS2006 is on Sep 11 18:45:45 where do I see that Sep 11 18:46:07 open "X terminal" and type "df -h" Sep 11 18:46:14 Alystair, file manager would probably say Sep 11 18:46:23 oh that Sep 11 18:46:29 Stskeeps, if it's vanilla OS2006 I think there's no x terminal Sep 11 18:46:37 baby steps, there's no x term :) Sep 11 18:46:47 ah Sep 11 18:47:06 * Stskeeps should really get a 770 emulator.. Sep 11 18:47:45 I could dl openssh server? :/ Sep 11 18:48:13 also a possibility :P Sep 11 18:48:22 you could, but I think file manager will tell you the amount of free space Sep 11 18:52:27 uh Sep 11 18:52:35 54mb available Sep 11 18:52:42 k Sep 11 18:52:43 ta Sep 11 18:52:44 plenty :) Sep 11 18:56:02 one of my wishlist things is getting deblet sanely on a 770 :P Sep 11 18:57:49 uh Sep 11 18:58:13 the headphone jack is supposed to mute the internal speaker when you plug it in right? :| Sep 11 18:58:32 I plugged in a set of headphones and it's still playing via internal Sep 11 19:01:45 the fm-radio app had an option to play via internal speakers even when you plugged in headphones Sep 11 19:01:50 all other apps should mute and play through the phones only Sep 11 19:02:07 did you really push the plug all the way in? Sep 11 19:02:17 great it's defective Sep 11 19:02:19 woot Sep 11 19:02:24 yeah tried two sets Sep 11 19:02:24 iirc my 770 required a lot of force for that Sep 11 19:07:01 hmmm no Sep 11 19:07:04 doesn't seem to work Sep 11 19:07:15 when I plug in headphones it just mutes everything Sep 11 19:07:52 half the reason I got this thing was just so I could use it to remotely stream music from my PC... argh Sep 11 19:08:15 perhaps just a OS thing that didn't get coded properly back then Sep 11 19:08:57 you're telling me nokia's firmware is broken? seems unlikely Sep 11 19:09:18 more like the person who sold me this gave me a defective product :| Sep 11 19:09:28 how much did you give? Sep 11 19:09:40 ~$100 Sep 11 19:09:41 * infobot gives alystair full service! Sep 11 19:09:42 Alystair: It doesn't mute for me when I plug in headphones. Sep 11 19:09:57 I think the headphone jack is simply borked Sep 11 19:10:26 also possible Sep 11 19:10:55 Alystair: tested if sound works though? Sep 11 19:11:00 like, goes to headphones Sep 11 19:11:28 built-in speaker works perfectly, but when I plug in headphones and try music all I hear is a tiny tiny click and nothing Sep 11 19:17:01 ugh. Sep 11 19:17:16 can I use a bluetooth headset with this? Sep 11 19:17:44 Alystair: what kind of headphones? Sep 11 19:18:01 tried ipod and the ones that came with the 770 Sep 11 19:18:21 I don't have any BT headset yet tho Sep 11 19:18:51 volume was maxed, i suppose Sep 11 19:19:39 nokias headset is bad bad bad Sep 11 19:31:03 * Stskeeps goes write a deblet-770 post and see who picks up. Sep 11 19:31:46 so I finally upgraded to Diablo Sep 11 19:31:50 nice so far Sep 11 19:38:13 Evening all Sep 11 19:39:12 is there any calendar software for the n810 right now? Sep 11 19:39:28 * melmoth use gpecalendar Sep 11 19:39:30 has anyone tried running korganizer on it? Sep 11 19:40:31 I use mcalendar Sep 11 19:41:37 where do I get those? how do I get them to share a calendar with my computer? Sep 11 19:41:42 Chani: Or gpe-calendar or dates (openhand(ed?)) Sep 11 19:42:06 mcalendar is on garage (i think) Sep 11 19:42:51 hi Sep 11 19:42:52 Anybody knows why python2.5-sdk is not installable in scratchbox? Sep 11 19:43:14 http://oss.kernelconcepts.de/maemo/calendar.shtml Sep 11 19:43:42 what's GPE? Sep 11 19:43:51 chani mcalendar is syncs with Google Calendar Sep 11 19:43:58 a pim suite for handled. Sep 11 19:44:32 how use mode HOST in nokia n800 ? :s Sep 11 19:44:40 I have installed USB control, I connected my mode and USB flash memory, but does not recognize it: S Sep 11 19:44:44 gep calendar can import zimbra events. i did not bother trying to see if exorting can be done Sep 11 19:44:58 andrewfblack: I didn't promote your last message to the garage frontpage because there are already a few messages from your project there. Sep 11 19:45:03 any idea ? Sep 11 19:45:15 Chani: GPE is http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/ Sep 11 19:45:18 x-Fade yeah I know sorry about releasing so much news Sep 11 19:45:33 I'm just updating my Themes to fast lol Sep 11 19:45:44 andrewfblack: Doesn't matter, but at least you know the reasoning behind it. Sep 11 19:46:03 andrewfblack: Trying not to be evil ;) Sep 11 19:46:10 thanks for telling me Sep 11 19:46:15 X-Fade: difficult hey!? ;) Sep 11 19:46:35 I think i'm going to start only releasing files once a week or atleast only releasing a news update once a week Sep 11 19:46:37 interesting. Sep 11 19:47:38 andrewfblack: I only have 2 rules. 1. more than 2 lines of text in the news item. 2. No other posts in a few days. Sep 11 19:48:30 andrewfblack: But don't let that stop you from releasing often. Sep 11 19:49:23 Just noticed I had 2 back to back on front page Sep 11 19:50:52 ups Sep 11 19:50:54 how use mode HOST in nokia n800 ? :s Sep 11 19:50:56 I have installed USB control, I connected my mode and USB flash memory, but does not recognize it: S Sep 11 19:51:14 n800 needs external power Sep 11 19:51:24 lopz did you open USB Control and set USB to host mode? Sep 11 19:51:56 andrewfblack, yes :S Sep 11 19:52:19 just making sure :) Sep 11 19:52:28 control female / female me I did, okay? Sep 11 19:52:41 http://omploader.org/vcWxw/Img020.jpg Sep 11 19:53:06 welp, time to see if nokia will fix this Sep 11 20:09:57 lopz: how to you power your flash? Sep 11 20:10:48 argh... does nokia charge a lot for out of warranty repairs? The headphone jack on this 770 is gone. Sep 11 20:14:34 keesj, mm not have, is connected directly, is correct? Sep 11 20:17:55 wow Sep 11 20:17:56 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/themehackers/ Sep 11 20:18:01 all news today Sep 11 20:19:54 * RST38h moos gloomily Sep 11 20:32:11 o.O Sep 11 20:33:37 x.x Sep 11 20:33:38 hey jaska :) Sep 11 20:37:31 lo Sep 11 20:40:19 keesj,http://omploader.org/vcW1n/15_19_21-110908.jpg http://omploader.org/vcW1p/Img024.jpg Sep 11 20:40:47 any idea ? Sep 11 20:45:15 * RST38h sees two female USB connectors, surface mounted, apparently used before Sep 11 20:45:29 Is this what you are asking about? Sep 11 20:46:33 RST38h, any idea ? Sep 11 20:46:47 what do you want to know about it? Sep 11 20:46:56 if I connect the flash memory I can not recognize and can not access: S Sep 11 20:47:18 You can't connect flash memory to it. Need a controller. Sep 11 20:47:59 RST38h, I did that jack / female, but does not work .. I have to do something? Sep 11 20:47:59 Already I: echo "host"> / sys / devices / platform / musb_hdrc / mode Sep 11 20:48:44 One more time: you need a controller that accepts umass commands over USB and performs flash reads/writes Sep 11 20:49:48 that driver? On the web said that only connect the flash memory with FAT format, and will recognize it automatically, like the keyboard Sep 11 20:50:27 that controller RST38h ? :S Sep 11 20:51:51 wtf the headphone jack started working Sep 11 20:52:35 awesome! Sep 11 20:53:27 any idea ? Sep 11 20:57:38 * Jaffa is much more pleased with http://bleb.org/software/maemo/finding-maemo2.jpg - now if only it wasn't too late to get the "Finding Maemo" logo printed on a t-shirt for the conference. Sep 11 21:02:02 drat, I knew there was something I was supposed to do! Sep 11 21:10:39 jaffa, for you it might be, but gimme your CC details and i will get you one or two knocked up for you Sep 11 21:11:21 lardman, i spent about half hour yesterday trying to remember what i had to do, and it was tshirts as well - though ive got about 10billion other more important things to do Sep 11 21:11:39 yeah, same here Sep 11 21:12:14 I'm away tomorrow & Saturday, so running out of time Sep 11 21:12:54 i will still feel guilty if i havent completed my personal goals, but since all dev work on this platform is homework theres no true rush Sep 11 21:13:01 crapola Sep 11 21:13:43 ie - ppl can see a work in progress and if its liked i can develop it further in the daytime, if not, i can develop it further (and slower) in the evening :) Sep 11 21:13:53 same, I had hoped to get dsp-mp3 workable, but have to can that for the time being and finish my presentations Sep 11 21:14:27 im hoping to present directly from 810 but thats looking less likely - i might have to make do with a couple of movies with it Sep 11 21:14:38 at least im taking my laptop this time - i know what to expect ;) Sep 11 21:14:59 lol, I won't bring a powerpoint presentation this time :) Sep 11 21:15:05 heh Sep 11 21:15:07 ok looks like the 770 is working fine now, where do I download dependencies from? Sep 11 21:15:13 I want to get Python on this baby and start developing cool stuff Sep 11 21:15:14 well i had an open office presentation on a mem stick Sep 11 21:15:35 Alystair, download dependencies? like children and wives and stuff? Sep 11 21:15:47 Alystair: Extras probably Sep 11 21:16:09 Alystair: though for a 770 there are lots of external repos too, before most stuff got pushed into Extras Sep 11 21:16:24 Alystair, it depends which os version you are using, but gronmayer may help better than a single specific one Sep 11 21:16:26 well it's mainly libraries, and I don't see them in the extras list Sep 11 21:16:33 its only recently that everything came together under one roof Sep 11 21:16:54 http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ Sep 11 21:17:03 they have a searchable list of repos and packages :) Sep 11 21:17:11 You may also need to install the scratchbox dev repo Sep 11 21:17:16 is that on there? Sep 11 21:17:34 is what on there? Sep 11 21:17:49 hat, cat Sep 11 21:18:00 sat, mat Sep 11 21:18:03 no, dev repo on Gronmayer Sep 11 21:18:09 * lcuk didnt know he was talkin to jacob :P Sep 11 21:18:17 oi! Sep 11 21:18:26 I'll have you executed Sep 11 21:18:33 oh yer, u are the god now Sep 11 21:18:40 I'll talk to FieldMarshalAntilles about raising an army Sep 11 21:18:54 lol Sep 11 21:19:40 is this weekend work related or military wedding planning? Sep 11 21:20:03 * lcuk needs a new chair :S im on the wonk Sep 11 21:20:10 :) Sep 11 21:20:23 Someone else's Wedding tomorrow, then a Christening on Sat Sep 11 21:21:00 nice, but no chance to take your device to play Sep 11 21:21:12 hi Sep 11 21:21:22 friday has become the new saturday for weddings Sep 11 21:21:28 which day is yours on? Sep 11 21:21:36 No, going to be pretty busy I fear, lots of drinking mind you, but doesn't help the 2 presentations I;ve got to do for next week Sep 11 21:21:51 make notes on the hotel mirror Sep 11 21:22:00 lcuk: looking like the 30th of May, not firm yet though Sep 11 21:22:01 take phots and transcribe when you get home Sep 11 21:22:13 :) Sep 11 21:23:13 hope the weather is kind to you, which day is that though - have you managed to get a saturday or has it been pushed back Sep 11 21:23:22 * lcuk was at a friday wedding a couple of weeks ago Sep 11 21:23:27 saturday at the moment Sep 11 21:23:38 Firday weddings are ok, better than Sunday for the attendees anyway Sep 11 21:23:57 and sod it, they've got long enough to take a day off ;) Sep 11 21:24:28 I hate tables in powerpoint, why are they so crappy? Sep 11 21:25:14 http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/09/everun-note-full-review/ Sep 11 21:25:50 so many repos D: Sep 11 21:25:57 isn't everything in powerpoint crappy? I'm sure it, along with publisher are some kind of elaborate practical joke Sep 11 21:26:29 yeah, not far from the truth, I was meaning why are they so much crappier than the ones in M$ Word Sep 11 21:27:10 lardman: If it makes you feel any better, OOo simply doesn't have tables in impress. Sep 11 21:27:23 (Or at least not until 3.0, which isn't out yet) Sep 11 21:27:45 fair enough, I won't bother trying to write it in that then :) Sep 11 21:28:06 What I have to do is make them in Writer, and then cut and paste them into Impress. Sep 11 21:28:12 though as I'm running MATLAB code on the side to generate graphs for the other conference that might be hard anyway :) Sep 11 21:28:19 * Jaffa hasn't even started on his presentation yet. Sep 11 21:28:20 Which works, except that Impress fucks up the formatting something awful. Sep 11 21:28:25 And now we've got the council one to think about Sep 11 21:28:31 s/formatting/aspect ratio Sep 11 21:29:14 * jott sticks with latex beamer :) Sep 11 21:29:17 Why are Matlab-generated graphs hard? Sep 11 21:29:42 hard to do running Linux Sep 11 21:29:47 was what I meant Sep 11 21:29:53 Matlab runs just fine in Linux. Sep 11 21:30:12 not my version though, though I just realised oo works in Windows too Sep 11 21:30:14 ignore me Sep 11 21:30:31 Yeah, okay. Sep 11 21:30:48 Code for complete parsing of QR codes is done. Sep 11 21:30:52 Totally untested, though. Sep 11 21:30:56 great Sep 11 21:31:15 And I still need to stick on the glue for converting character encodings and joining multiple pieces together. Sep 11 21:32:13 help me, how use flash memory (kignston 2 GB) in n800 ? Sep 11 21:32:32 Where's qwerty when you want him? Sep 11 21:32:57 http://omploader.org/vcW1p/Img024.jpg Sep 11 21:33:20 I can not access the flash memory: s Sep 11 21:34:17 my conector http://omploader.org/vcW1n/15_19_21-110908.jpg make to me Sep 11 21:38:37 lopz: N800 DOES NOT PROVIDE POWER TO USB. NEED EXTERNAL POWER Sep 11 21:38:52 keesj, for keyborad ? Sep 11 21:39:03 N810 does Sep 11 21:39:09 keesj: no Sep 11 21:39:11 I would guess that N800 does too Sep 11 21:39:22 keesj: lol Sep 11 21:39:24 + connector looks wrong to me Sep 11 21:39:48 keesj: I was wondering why you were asking that (or not), /me goes back to presentation rather than half reading replies :) Sep 11 21:40:19 keesj, my connector ? Sep 11 21:40:28 lardman: felicitations with the election results Sep 11 21:41:03 keesj, Like needs energy for an external USB keyboard? Sep 11 21:41:11 keesj: thank you :) Sep 11 21:41:30 is there an app for the 770 that changes display settings based on the power being plugged in? Sep 11 21:41:39 also, something for better battery status Sep 11 21:41:40 it provides 300mA or something like that, should be enough for any normal keyboard Sep 11 21:43:13 lopz: yes , need energy Sep 11 21:43:24 pff Sep 11 21:43:42 Kegetys: really? Sep 11 21:43:54 keesj: yes Sep 11 21:43:59 as I read in a log that need only plug and play, it will work? Sep 11 21:44:06 I knew the n810 worked Sep 11 21:47:45 indeed http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/2008/06/nokia-n800-n810-how-to-attach-hdd-aka.html Sep 11 21:51:10 lopz: i guess you need to cross the two external ones + and _ to make it work then Sep 11 21:55:50 no even , just full 180 Sep 11 21:56:35 keesj, ok, thanks Sep 11 22:02:27 Does anyone know of a black-background maemo.org logo apart from glaoliver's original submission? Sep 11 22:03:42 Anybody is working on pushing stardict to autobuilder? It seems a easy task Sep 11 22:09:07 * Jaffa gimps one up & goes to bed Sep 11 22:23:37 keesj, but in this videotutorial NOT use external power, How? Sep 11 22:23:43 http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/2008/05/nokia-n800-n810-how-to-connect-ordinary.html Sep 11 22:23:44 :S Sep 11 22:24:32 I need to buy a USB keyboard, but do not buy if you need external power, I'm confused, as being: S Sep 11 22:42:52 http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2008/09/largehadron.jpg Sep 11 22:52:44 hello Sep 11 22:52:59 i got a nokia 770 Sep 11 22:53:22 i would to use a client sip Sep 11 22:53:54 that give me the possibility to phone Sep 11 22:54:21 for free and zero payment Sep 11 22:54:41 hmmm Sep 11 22:54:53 i used too gizmo, but asks money Sep 11 22:55:13 is there something about ? Sep 11 22:55:34 skype is another option Sep 11 22:55:48 also costs money though Sep 11 22:56:27 have you ever thinked to work with the big Maestro Kevin David Mitnick ? Sep 11 22:56:48 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8213 here is thread Sep 11 22:57:11 Google Talk might work too Sep 11 22:57:22 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2175 Sep 11 22:57:46 i must to put in charge the nokia Sep 11 22:57:53 bye bye Sep 11 22:58:06 good night to all Sep 11 22:58:34 osservi là Sep 11 22:58:39 ciao bella Sep 11 23:15:24 hello maemoers Sep 11 23:15:35 keesj, and functions! I made the wrong connector was upside down, and do not require external power:) Sep 11 23:19:51 I'm just wondering if getting a large SD card like 8/16/32GB will kill battery life ? Sep 11 23:20:02 on an N800 Sep 11 23:20:05 no Sep 11 23:20:47 good :) Sep 11 23:22:00 using a 16 gb one Sep 11 23:22:17 myself Sep 11 23:22:24 + another 8gb one Sep 11 23:22:27 they got cheap Sep 11 23:23:57 yeah, just noticed they're quite nicely priced now Sep 11 23:24:16 which brand would you recommend Sep 11 23:25:45 i don't think it matters as long as it's sdhc Sep 11 23:27:50 i don't think the speed matters either Sep 11 23:27:58 go cheap and big ;) Sep 11 23:35:39 speed only really matters with media, as to slow a card can make it hard to refill the buffer in time Sep 11 23:39:25 damn you jean peer Sep 11 23:39:49 buffer, hm? Sep 11 23:45:59 or whatever, buffer, cache, call it what you like... Sep 11 23:46:50 I call it cheese Sep 11 23:53:08 https://wiki.maemo.org/Installing_applications Sep 11 23:53:17 I still need somebody to flesh out apt and dpkg usage Sep 11 23:57:10 something about commin application manager errors would be nice Sep 11 23:57:44 == Troubleshooting == Sep 11 23:57:51 Feel free to start the section. ;) Sep 11 23:59:57 maybe "do not install applications outside extras repository" would be enough Sep 12 00:00:06 GeneralAntilles: maybe another entry to add to your wiki article on fixing the app manager, the chance to see the real error messages from apt? Sep 12 00:00:33 t_s_o, m-vo is very well aware of how much the error reporting sucks. Sep 12 00:00:35 dose any one know how to change the boot menu text? Sep 12 00:00:50 I may get around to adding a section, but it's definitely not something they're not thinking about. Sep 12 00:01:11 nice to know Sep 12 00:03:22 hee guaka!! Sep 12 00:03:38 Hrm, anybody up for grabbing a list of h-a-m's common error messages? Sep 12 00:07:11 Anybody remember the exact text of Application manager's "your internal card is corrupt, I'm going to sit here and pout" error message? Sep 12 00:10:37 how do I find out what package owns a file? Sep 12 00:11:00 dpk -S packagename ? Sep 12 00:11:08 I have a file Sep 12 00:11:20 er dpkg even Sep 12 00:11:58 check the file against the output of dpkg -S ? Sep 12 00:12:17 dpkg -S pattern(file) Sep 12 00:13:29 looks like osso-af-utils is the offending package Sep 12 00:14:04 check out ls -al /usr/share/icons/xcursor-transparent/ Sep 12 00:16:40 linking to your parent is probably not the best of ideas Sep 12 00:24:40 The wiki has reached Downloads speeds. . . . Sep 12 00:26:04 * brontide thinks the grass grows faster than wiki's download speeds Sep 12 00:26:11 where were those servers Sep 12 00:27:39 Still being worked on Sep 12 00:27:48 They did a database dump for testing today. Sep 12 00:28:02 It's just painful at times Sep 12 00:28:50 It's been 2 minutes and browser is still "connected" but no page data yet Sep 12 00:32:59 lol, I'm thinking the same about my uni connection and it's streaming at a good 42kB/s Sep 12 00:33:10 not long ago that would have been pretty impressive Sep 12 00:33:45 I'm not even sure the text I was planning on pasting into the damn article is still in the clipboard. Sep 12 00:33:55 Yeah.. I was annoyed that I was only getting 80mbps down to my laptop the other day on a 100mbps connection Sep 12 00:34:06 X-Fade, we told you to stop running a quake server on there. Sep 12 00:34:11 Don't make me get out the cattle prod. Sep 12 00:34:23 or at least tell us the password so we can come play Sep 12 00:34:43 * GeneralAntilles is still hoping for some tablet-only Quake deathmatches. Sep 12 00:34:55 they're probably playing using opengl quake on N810s and laughing at us Sep 12 00:35:00 ;) Sep 12 00:35:19 'course, somebody's just gonna use a mouse and keyboard and ruin all the run. Sep 12 00:35:40 Or a Core Duo Quad... Sep 12 00:35:55 or Core Quad, whatever they call them now :S Sep 12 00:36:09 bed time, 24 slides down, more to go tomorrow Sep 12 00:36:11 hmm, quad damage ;) Sep 12 00:36:15 night all Sep 12 00:36:33 quad glaser! Sep 12 00:56:43 hmm. who is etrunko? Sep 12 00:59:27 Canola guy Sep 12 01:01:09 ah. thanks. that was a very good way to describe :) Sep 12 01:01:12 lol lardman (lardman|gone), at my uni I get 6Mb/s down :P Sep 12 01:07:10 and good morning Sep 12 01:22:38 where do I get the flasher for linux? Sep 12 01:22:52 I can't find it in http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ Sep 12 01:23:07 hm, nevermind, found it Sep 12 01:23:09 Anyone used an A4tech wireless keyboard with the 770? Sep 12 01:25:09 ~flashing Sep 12 01:25:09 well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 12 01:38:55 Is there is a difference between bluetooth and wireless - or what is the difference? Sep 12 01:39:35 wireless == wifi? Sep 12 01:40:16 so a keyboard described as "RF" is ??? Sep 12 01:40:24 something else :) Sep 12 01:40:41 proprietary Sep 12 01:40:42 some random protocol that only works with their included adapter Sep 12 01:40:46 not bluetooth and not wifi? Sep 12 01:40:52 right Sep 12 01:40:54 something else Sep 12 01:40:55 Which means it has a USB dongle. Sep 12 01:41:19 Oh, so it won't work with Nokia 770, right? Sep 12 01:41:34 correct Sep 12 01:41:44 Darn! Sep 12 01:42:18 Anyone here have luck with VPN and their Nokia 770? Sep 12 01:42:18 did you just buy one? Sep 12 01:42:36 no johnx, just looking - price is pretty cheap Sep 12 01:43:00 just find a bluetooth keyboard. they're not that expensive last time I checked Sep 12 01:43:43 okay, will have to do that. Sep 12 01:44:04 you should be able to find one for $30-$40 if you look Sep 12 01:44:32 johnx, any recommendations as far as brand, besides apple Sep 12 01:44:46 I don't have one Sep 12 01:44:52 oh okay Sep 12 01:44:55 I hear the palm and igo ones are good Sep 12 01:45:05 n800+usb keyboard here Sep 12 01:45:10 any tips on how to scroll down directories in Midnight Command Sep 12 01:45:37 igo? Haven't heard of that before Sep 12 01:46:13 they make (made) the stowaway and sierra IIRC Sep 12 01:46:50 any major stores that carry igo? Sep 12 01:46:58 not anymore Sep 12 01:47:01 it's discontinued Sep 12 01:47:10 which one did I use again? Sep 12 01:47:11 you'll have to look online Sep 12 01:47:19 * rm_you looks Sep 12 01:47:21 okay, will do Sep 12 01:47:31 rm_you, the stowaway I think Sep 12 01:47:42 is there a new version of ogg-support out? Sep 12 01:48:08 ah. ThinkOutside stowaway Sep 12 01:48:31 gregorovius: i think i saw an announcement somewhere about an updated version for diablo, yes Sep 12 01:48:44 Planet. Sep 12 01:48:46 I saw a post on ITT but I can't find it anywhere Sep 12 01:48:59 oh, I'll take a look at planet, thanks Sep 12 01:49:45 Is it easier to get python 2.5 setup in hackeros2007 than regular 2006? Sep 12 02:01:27 What would I have to do to setup by Apple keyboard (once I get it)? Sep 12 02:04:09 just pair it as per instructions in nokia manual? No special setup for the keyboard itself? Sep 12 02:04:13 put the keyboard in pairing mode... open the control panel of the 770, go to bluetooth, and add device Sep 12 02:04:53 does anyone use more than one bluetooth device at a time - say keyboard and headset? Sep 12 02:06:08 Does Mac keyboards use regular batteries or do I have to buy something special? Sep 12 02:08:08 Thanks rm_you for the good advice - I can't wait to go pick one up! Sep 12 02:08:59 Now if I can just get windows to flash the updated os I will be totally set and happy! Sep 12 02:24:35 Goodnight all! Sep 12 02:29:25 * johnx heads off for the long weekend Sep 12 02:35:48 hrm. just shot an email to Quim asking for verification that I'm actually even registered for OSiM :P Sep 12 02:36:21 since no one ever really told me if I was or not. I had my name on the arrivals list well before the deadline, but... yeah. We'll see. I hope I am. :) Sep 12 02:36:51 On the bright side, at least if I'm not, I have a couple days to see the city :) Sep 12 02:38:57 No Ari keynote for you! Sep 12 02:42:09 i actually assume I am registered, it's just that no one ever actually explicitly told me **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Sep 12 02:59:57 2008