**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 15 02:59:57 2008 Sep 15 03:01:25 * brontide is on est, but fatherhood has slowed my night owl activities Sep 15 03:04:16 heh, more like grab sleep while possible? ;) Sep 15 03:31:03 * robink hopes metacrawler doesn't run out of memory. Sep 15 03:37:47 ? Sep 15 03:41:36 t_s_o: Using metacrawler instead of lightmediascanner-ogg to scan my OGG files. Sep 15 03:45:26 t_s_o: It often runs out of memory. Sep 15 04:10:53 oops meant metalayer-crawler Sep 15 04:49:40 Anybody encountered a situation where links found in GMail emails do not open from gmail? They "load" forever with white screen Sep 15 04:49:48 (it is FireFox on Windows or Linux BTW] Sep 15 05:06:23 hey can someone give me the link to the base theme/psd file with images so i can start making n810 themes? Sep 15 05:15:13 crashanddie, both I2C and RS232 are available on the Beagle. . . . Sep 15 05:15:42 anyone know? :( Sep 15 05:15:52 someone was nice enough to give me the link the other day.. Sep 15 05:16:46 It's bundled with kontorri's theme maker, I think. Sep 15 05:18:22 Argh, metadata-crawler keeps dying and respawning. Sep 15 05:18:32 hey can someone give me the link to the base theme/psd file with images so i can start making n810 themes? Sep 15 05:19:06 Jaredu, if they gave it to you yesterday, why don't you just check the logs? Sep 15 05:19:08 Will it ever give up? Sep 15 05:19:15 i dont have logs Sep 15 05:19:16 :( Sep 15 05:19:19 wasnt here Sep 15 05:19:24 pidgin died Sep 15 05:21:15 if I'm making a point of sale application for the 770, is there any reason I should get a 2nd one during development? Sep 15 05:21:28 I could just fake one by sending commands from the PC, right? Sep 15 05:23:53 do g++ or emacs work on the n810? Sep 15 05:25:50 Jaredu: Yes. Sep 15 05:26:09 O_O :D Sep 15 05:26:11 O_O Sep 15 05:26:35 robink you made my day :D Sep 15 05:26:40 well Sep 15 05:26:44 Jaredu: Heh, np Sep 15 05:26:48 its 12:30am so youve made my day so far Sep 15 05:26:52 Jaredu: Heh Sep 15 05:26:55 chirps day :P Sep 15 05:26:59 actually Sep 15 05:27:07 screw you, now I have to buy an n810 :P Sep 15 05:27:07 if you're writing a program in c on a pc or w/e is it hard to port it to the n810? Sep 15 05:28:15 now if you could run openBSD and fvwm on the n810 I'd buy it immediately :P haha Sep 15 05:28:31 technicall Sep 15 05:28:39 I know technically Sep 15 05:28:42 the zaurus arm platform version of bsd could easilyish be ported to n810 Sep 15 05:28:52 because n810 runs on the arm architecture Sep 15 05:28:53 no Sep 15 05:28:57 n810 is a newer chip Sep 15 05:29:10 same architecture though Sep 15 05:29:19 hmm Sep 15 05:29:38 I doubt it'd work still Sep 15 05:29:59 hmm Sep 15 05:30:39 Xscale is armv5 Sep 15 05:30:52 that reminds me, are there any Atari 8-bit or Atari ST emulators ported to the N800? Sep 15 05:30:57 The OMAP2420 is ARM11, which is armv6 Sep 15 05:31:02 armv5's gonna be slower Sep 15 05:32:31 * qnr-lt gets off is posterior and searches Sep 15 05:32:37 s/is/his/ Sep 15 05:32:44 lol Sep 15 05:32:58 http://pupnik.de/software.html Sep 15 05:33:47 not bad Sep 15 05:33:50 GA: The actual performance is usually determined by SDRAM speed/efficiency Sep 15 05:34:00 hmm Sep 15 05:34:03 hmm, well they have a Commodore and Apple, so I guess I might be able to port an Atari 8-bit Sep 15 05:34:17 thank you GeneralAntilles Sep 15 05:34:21 OMAP is already much faster than SDRAM it has to access Sep 15 05:34:42 would there be a way to increase capacity of the flash ram? Sep 15 05:34:48 i know it can do like 256 Sep 15 05:34:55 but would there be a way to bump it to a gig? Sep 15 05:35:03 The NAND? Sep 15 05:35:04 Ha Sep 15 05:35:09 goodluckwiththat Sep 15 05:35:10 ~boot-sd Sep 15 05:35:11 extra, extra, read all about it, boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card Sep 15 05:35:12 Was ist die wetter in Berlin? Sep 15 05:35:36 also, is there something similar to gimp for n810? ;) Sep 15 05:35:49 you can get the gimp directly if you install debian Sep 15 05:36:05 it would be incredibly slow from what i see though... but it'd work? Sep 15 05:36:13 Jaredu: no gimp yet Sep 15 05:36:24 bummer Sep 15 05:36:24 hmm Sep 15 05:36:25 there is MyPaint but it is a pain to use Sep 15 05:36:31 Jaredu, try easy debian Sep 15 05:36:50 would be nice to have something even remotely as good as gimp though Sep 15 05:36:58 hmm Sep 15 05:37:00 anyone seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPp_mE7rwI Sep 15 05:37:08 MyPaint has potential Sep 15 05:37:16 StsN800: easy debian? Sep 15 05:37:19 It needs some radical interface redesign, though. Sep 15 05:37:31 actually RST38h, ansi C works on the n810 correct? Sep 15 05:37:35 Yes, Jaredu, we've all seen that. Sep 15 05:37:40 mmk :P Sep 15 05:37:42 chirpsalot, it's Linux. Sep 15 05:37:47 uh how do I test flash on the 770 Sep 15 05:37:55 (Adobe Flash, not firmware stuff) Sep 15 05:38:02 "test"? Sep 15 05:38:05 Jaredu, youtube for debian n810 methinks Sep 15 05:38:08 GeneralAntilles which means anyone can screw it up anyway they want -.-, look at the mylo :), no C Sep 15 05:38:43 Most of the platform is in C. Sep 15 05:39:02 ok Sep 15 05:39:11 i know theres mytube fordebian Sep 15 05:39:16 so in theory I could write a painting prog for it with C? Sep 15 05:39:28 im in the process of watching every youtube video there is about n810 ;) Sep 15 05:39:30 eg. the web browser can't load flash? Sep 15 05:39:37 Hey, look, there's a C program right there! https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=564 Sep 15 05:39:43 i have a mylo Sep 15 05:39:44 lol Sep 15 05:39:47 mylo 2 rather Sep 15 05:39:51 is there a dedicated flash player app I can use? Sep 15 05:39:55 it's nice but im getting an n810 too since its open and more apps Sep 15 05:40:02 Alystair, mplayer for flvs Sep 15 05:40:10 <3 the keyboard though so far... is the keyboard on the n810 easy to type on? Sep 15 05:40:20 i can do about 50-70wpm on mylo if thats any reference Sep 15 05:40:34 no, not for flvs Sep 15 05:40:41 chirpsalot, read: http://maemo.org/development/ Sep 15 05:40:54 Alystair, try gtkmozembed stuff Sep 15 05:41:03 closest thing Sep 15 05:41:16 chirpsalot, out of interest, the platform being GTK, what in the world else would you use? Sep 15 05:41:59 GeneralAntilles rofl python :P Sep 15 05:42:32 . . . Sep 15 05:42:33 The next question, why do you think you _wouldn't_ be able to use C? Sep 15 05:42:55 but I mean GeneralAntilles, just because it's linux, doesn't mean it has everything any other linux does, and quite frankly the fact that the mylo won't do custom C stuff scares me :P Sep 15 05:43:07 Mylo is a closed piece of crap Sep 15 05:43:12 I have mylo stereotypes? :) Sep 15 05:43:17 * Jaredu pets his mylo 2 consolingly. Sep 15 05:43:32 * Jaredu refreshes his buy.com n810 order page. Sep 15 05:43:33 Jaredu, you're selling it -.- XD Sep 15 05:43:41 i might Sep 15 05:43:46 mylo still has better camera Sep 15 05:43:47 lol Sep 15 05:43:50 true Sep 15 05:43:52 You can run whatever the hell you want on Maemo. Sep 15 05:43:56 It's not a closed system. Sep 15 05:44:00 cool Sep 15 05:44:04 figured Sep 15 05:44:13 just wasn't sure of the capabilities Sep 15 05:44:23 AHA nice got VNC working Sep 15 05:44:26 GeneralAntilles: are there any specific guidelines/restrictions on porting apps for the tablet? Sep 15 05:44:33 Alystair: congrats Sep 15 05:44:41 i think i like mypaint o.O Sep 15 05:44:45 the interface.. appeals to me Sep 15 05:44:52 might work nice for storyboard class Sep 15 05:45:05 Jaredu, make them fit within the resolution, storage, RAM and CPU limitation of a mobile device? Sep 15 05:45:09 * Jaredu now has an excuse for his teacher to buy a bluetooth printer Sep 15 05:45:33 GeneralAntilles: i was kinda referring to it being a touch based device rather than mouse input with a slightly different keyboard mapping and such Sep 15 05:45:42 as far as porting existing apps goes that is Sep 15 05:45:57 http://test.maemo.org/community/UI_Style_Guide_Summary_2.0.pdf Sep 15 05:47:24 * GeneralAntilles wonders if http://test.maemo.org/ should really still be up. Sep 15 05:47:30 is there a "ctrl alt del" equivilant for this tablet, if remotely connected? Sep 15 05:47:40 eep big pdf file lol Sep 15 05:47:50 to force quit the currently active program? Sep 15 05:48:09 Alystair: pkill? Sep 15 05:48:11 killall Sep 15 05:49:50 dang why can't I type via VNC Sep 15 05:49:51 one of the main reason im switching from mylo to n810 is the damned "out of memory error" Sep 15 05:51:11 jeeze you don't really get the idea of the resolution on this screen until you VNC in Sep 15 05:51:21 how so Sep 15 05:51:28 225dpi Sep 15 05:51:37 heh Sep 15 05:51:42 Though the Mylo 2 has a scarily higher dpi Sep 15 05:51:51 barely Sep 15 05:51:55 but it makes photos nice Sep 15 05:51:56 :P Sep 15 05:52:07 65k color is meh in comparison to comp though in some respects Sep 15 05:52:29 im assuming it looks very nice when vnc Sep 15 05:52:33 'ed in? Sep 15 05:53:48 hmm Sep 15 05:53:56 where is that dumb psd file O_O Sep 15 05:55:34 I told you, check konttori's theme maker Sep 15 05:55:39 it should be in that package. . . . Sep 15 05:55:39 ah Sep 15 05:55:41 didnt see it Sep 15 05:55:57 Jaredu: photoshop for 770 ;) Sep 15 05:56:04 ehhh???!!!!! Sep 15 05:56:11 via Xen emulator Sep 15 05:56:13 in windows vista. Sep 15 05:56:18 this is going to take a while. Sep 15 05:56:20 o.O Sep 15 05:56:24 jk :P Sep 15 05:56:40 * Jaredu wonders if he can ssh and run 3ds max Sep 15 05:57:39 hmm Sep 15 05:57:48 i think im going to enjoy making themes :D Sep 15 06:01:50 man this community is so messy :( Sep 15 06:01:55 heh Sep 15 06:02:01 there's no "one place" for everything, or a clean global repo Sep 15 06:02:12 Alystair, you're using a 770. Sep 15 06:02:17 It's old and unsupported. Sep 15 06:02:17 this is true Sep 15 06:02:19 blah. Sep 15 06:02:24 :P Sep 15 06:02:25 but it's cheap :( Sep 15 06:02:29 true Sep 15 06:02:48 The point is, don't extrapolate things about the community as it is now from a 770 perspective. Sep 15 06:02:51 that's the ONLY reason I want to use it, because I can pick these things up for $75-100 a piece Sep 15 06:03:11 and use them as dumb terminals for this POS system I'm making ;/ Sep 15 06:03:27 heh Sep 15 06:04:21 a few things about this theme template are bugging me.. Sep 15 06:04:44 especially the non-full layout functionality Sep 15 06:04:51 like everything is rounded on the corners Sep 15 06:05:38 Jaredu: it's so children can't hurt themselves on the screen objects. Sep 15 06:05:47 >..< Sep 15 06:05:56 * Jaredu has a sword and weapons collection. Sep 15 06:06:02 i like sharp objects.. Sep 15 06:06:07 * Jaredu isn't kidding. Sep 15 06:06:27 I miss old school perspective pixel art :) Sep 15 06:09:23 i will have to begin on my theme once i get the n810 Sep 15 06:09:32 i have to find where all these buttons go and their limitations Sep 15 06:17:50 Does nokia still produce the 770 or is it all old stock online? Sep 15 06:18:01 old stock i believe Sep 15 06:18:05 hrm Sep 15 06:18:14 Bad for my business model then... heh Sep 15 06:18:31 especially since they have a habit of going WSOD... Sep 15 06:18:51 unless you could tell me of a different tablet that has wireless and costs only $100 a pop :P Sep 15 06:19:13 n800 costs only like 130$/pop on ebay Sep 15 06:19:23 only $100 a pop...that makes it somewhat difficult Sep 15 06:19:28 What. No it doesn't. Sep 15 06:19:33 NO tablet costs 100$/pop and has all those features lol Sep 15 06:20:18 Jaredu: I'd love to see where you got that number :) Sep 15 06:20:24 from ebay Sep 15 06:20:24 :) Sep 15 06:20:26 was bidding Sep 15 06:20:27 lol Sep 15 06:20:29 lol Sep 15 06:21:09 hmm Sep 15 06:21:14 one going for about 140$ right now Sep 15 06:21:18 still 10h left Sep 15 06:21:20 I don't see it. Sep 15 06:21:27 http://cgi.ebay.com/Nokia-N800-Internet-Tablet-GREAT-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ260284959435QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260284959435&_trkparms=39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A1|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 Sep 15 06:21:47 was a couple days ago though Sep 15 06:21:49 johnx: sup :) Sep 15 06:21:52 i tend to find nice deals :P Sep 15 06:21:56 for example Sep 15 06:22:03 i got my samsung blast phone for 70$ Sep 15 06:22:04 hey rm_you :D Sep 15 06:22:10 it retails in my store for 235 :P Sep 15 06:22:12 flying out at noon tomorrow >_< Sep 15 06:22:18 technically today, I guess Sep 15 06:22:32 rm_you, madness :D Sep 15 06:22:35 that should be quite awesome Sep 15 06:22:41 12-14 hours of airplane >_< Sep 15 06:22:51 blah Sep 15 06:23:01 if I get my stuff working on a 770 it would fly on a 800 :) Sep 15 06:23:03 Just 12-14? :P Sep 15 06:24:36 guh...just got done with a 9+ hour trip by night bus Sep 15 06:24:42 do the 800/810 have a vibration function? Sep 15 06:24:47 dont think so Sep 15 06:24:49 nope Sep 15 06:24:55 thought so, not a big deal Sep 15 06:24:56 there is a notification led on the ambient light sensor for stuff Sep 15 06:25:14 Planet's not updating. . . . Sep 15 06:25:32 hrm I should really get SSH working so I can start dissecting this mofo Sep 15 06:25:44 they make usb powered things that ... uhm ... vibrate Sep 15 06:25:48 What's to get working? Sep 15 06:25:53 Just install OpenSSH Sep 15 06:26:22 says connection refused when I try to port in Sep 15 06:26:47 Did you install OpenSSH server? Sep 15 06:26:54 Did you check to see if sshd is running? Sep 15 06:27:00 johnx: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/packages.txt Sep 15 06:27:02 the better question is if I accidently uninstalled it earlier :) Sep 15 06:27:56 it's installed, just not running. Sep 15 06:28:27 Stskeeps, that's a fair number ... Sep 15 06:29:37 johnx: yeah, moving to a apt-based distribution with a minimal set built on the tablet Sep 15 06:29:45 (the non-free parts) Sep 15 06:29:54 made real debian packages with dpkg-buildpackage'able etc :P Sep 15 06:30:14 I'm using Ed's metapackage with client/server Sep 15 06:30:30 how do I start the daemon, I'm such a *nix newbie Sep 15 06:32:25 Alystair, /etc/init.d/ssh start Sep 15 06:32:26 most daemons have a start/stop script in /etc/init.d Sep 15 06:41:19 ugh I uninstalled it and now it says it cannot be installed even tho it ends up in the install section Sep 15 06:47:23 hello Sep 15 06:48:27 #nicksetup Sep 15 06:48:30 hi dontupanic Sep 15 06:48:37 hello Sep 15 06:49:27 I had a could of questions on an error I am getting Sep 15 06:49:44 I am flashing my n810 Sep 15 06:50:09 ah Sep 15 06:50:16 that sucks :( Sep 15 06:50:19 is this the right channle? Sep 15 06:50:46 yop. Maybe not the right time of day though :) Sep 15 06:51:14 I could not sleep:) Sep 15 06:52:03 sure, ask away Sep 15 06:52:42 well the error is " you have to supply the X-loader image" Sep 15 06:53:18 there are 4 lines Sep 15 06:53:41 do you mind copy and pasting? Sep 15 06:54:11 <_marcell_> dontupanic: have you seen this wiki page about flashing: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware ? Sep 15 06:54:55 can you pastebin the whole output? Sep 15 06:55:06 johnx: 9 hour nightbus? >_> Sep 15 06:55:12 that would blow hard Sep 15 06:55:19 <_< Sep 15 06:55:19 sure what is the address Sep 15 06:55:32 airplane is probably immensely more comfortable :/ Sep 15 06:55:47 ~pastebin Sep 15 06:55:48 [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste Sep 15 06:56:13 cool hold on a sec Sep 15 06:56:32 Is the microb browser different from the one on the 770 by default? Sep 15 06:56:54 Alystair, yes. very different Sep 15 06:56:57 you have an old version of opera Sep 15 06:57:09 how do I launch it? Sep 15 06:57:16 It doesn't show up in the listing after installing it Sep 15 06:57:55 Launch what? Sep 15 06:58:09 microb Sep 15 06:58:13 Alystair, you installed microb on which OS version? OS2006? OS2007HE? Sep 15 06:58:17 2006 Sep 15 06:58:32 assume I have the oldest piece of crap by default from now on please :( Sep 15 06:58:40 You can't install MicroB in OS2006. Sep 15 06:59:00 why did it say it was successful then :/ Sep 15 06:59:02 will that even work? Sep 15 06:59:03 Alystair, yes, because we love guessing when trying to help people Sep 15 07:00:00 because another feature of the 770 is "telling lies that make you feel better about your purchase" Sep 15 07:00:11 Alystair: getting this may solve your problems : http://www.nokiausa.com/link?cid=PLAIN_TEXT_607318 Sep 15 07:00:20 anyway imma go to bed Sep 15 07:01:01 There's no way you installed MicroB on the 770. Sep 15 07:01:06 It's simply not possible. Sep 15 07:02:11 GeneralAntilles, are you sure? Sep 15 07:02:14 was just curious Sep 15 07:02:18 Quite Sep 15 07:02:32 Either you've actually got OS2007HE or OS2008HE installed and don't realize it Sep 15 07:02:37 or didn't actually install MicroB Sep 15 07:02:39 sorry it took me so long Sep 15 07:02:44 http://pastebin.com/d2126bb7a Sep 15 07:03:26 dontupanic, you need to give us the command you used. Sep 15 07:03:38 ok Sep 15 07:03:46 dontupanic, one last thing. what was the exact command you gave. you can just paste that into the channel Sep 15 07:04:07 sudo ./flasher-3.0 -F RX-44_2008SE_1.2007.42-18_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R Sep 15 07:04:23 Why are we flashing an older image? Sep 15 07:04:55 OOOO I thought this was the latest one Sep 15 07:05:12 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php Sep 15 07:05:17 Please download the latest release from there. Sep 15 07:05:29 well it installed but ruined the internal browser :D Sep 15 07:05:53 I will look there now Sep 15 07:06:08 Alystair, can you link the version you tried to install? Sep 15 07:07:02 _marcell_, ping. Sep 15 07:07:09 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: pong Sep 15 07:07:17 http://repository.maemo.org/#extras Sep 15 07:07:26 Where's the maemo wiki link there supposed to go? Sep 15 07:07:31 johnx: no idea what repo it came from.. Sep 15 07:07:37 http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras I assume Sep 15 07:07:40 says it's 0.0.8-4, 7.22mb Sep 15 07:07:50 MicroB engine for OSSO browser Sep 15 07:07:55 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: I think so Sep 15 07:07:57 category: web Sep 15 07:08:10 <_marcell_> I will update the link then. Sep 15 07:08:15 http://repository.maemo.org/#sdk_debian Sep 15 07:08:20 The link there probably needs to be changed, too. Sep 15 07:08:22 * timeless looks for andre__ Sep 15 07:08:24 Since it's linking to the old wiki Sep 15 07:08:47 Maybe http://maemo.org/development/tools/ ? Sep 15 07:08:48 I dunno Sep 15 07:08:53 Morning. Sep 15 07:09:01 X-Fade, hi. Sep 15 07:10:06 wtf application manager says it cannot install OpenSSH, yet it vanishes from the list and is installed, or something. Sep 15 07:11:23 Alystair, time to start poking around with apt I think Sep 15 07:12:49 Alystair: you will probably find it under installed apps with a red and black icon next to it. basically its a indication of a broken install :( Sep 15 07:12:52 hello x-fade Sep 15 07:14:09 * Alystair reboots the thing a few times Sep 15 07:14:30 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: I will change the other one to tools and if people do not like it they can complain and suggest somthing better. Sep 15 07:23:46 Alystair: thats a 770, yes? if so, i hope thats a software reboot your doing, or that its sertified non-wsod capable... Sep 15 07:26:37 heh time to reflash, let's try 2007HE Sep 15 07:27:33 Alystair, so, before you get too far into your PoS application. Do you understand what people mean they say "WSOD"? Sep 15 07:28:17 permanently destroy? Sep 15 07:28:26 bricked by some sort of defect. Sep 15 07:29:04 yeah, white screen of death. There is a finite chance everytime you hardware reboot or turn on from hardware off that a component of the LCD controller will die Sep 15 07:29:21 again, only a problem on the 770 Sep 15 07:29:23 hah. Sep 15 07:29:25 Fun stuff :) Sep 15 07:29:57 a significant number of people have had their 770s die in that way Sep 15 07:30:23 and if you somehow still have a warranty on it, nokia will probably just send you a n800 as a replacement Sep 15 07:30:36 it doesn't. Sep 15 07:30:50 wait, only due to WSOD? Sep 15 07:31:41 hmm? it's due to them not having 770s on hand I assume Sep 15 07:32:14 moo, all Sep 15 07:34:53 woot let's do this. Sep 15 07:35:36 * Alystair flashes 770 with 2007HE in the middle of a thunder storm with a faulty UPS Sep 15 07:35:47 Alystair <-- closing in for a kill Sep 15 07:36:46 RST38h: was that hunting humor or were you referring to booting me off freenode because I'm annoying you too much :( Sep 15 07:37:04 That's you trying to kill your 770. Sep 15 07:37:39 what is life supposed to be if not exciting. I can always pick up another 770 to mangle for dirt cheap. Sep 15 07:37:42 so which other devices have you looked at Alystair? Sep 15 07:38:08 and isn't a 770 a bit small for a PoS? Sep 15 07:38:54 No smaller than the WinMob machines that frequently serve the job. Sep 15 07:39:08 Though, admittedly, those do have keypads. Sep 15 07:39:08 2007HE installed successfully Sep 15 07:39:33 this isn't meant to replace the klunkers on the desks Sep 15 07:39:50 aaaah...so mobile PoS...I was thinking of this at the grocery store checkout Sep 15 07:39:55 Ha Sep 15 07:39:57 this is an "at table" solution for restaurants :D Sep 15 07:39:58 That would be hilarious Sep 15 07:40:00 lmao johnx Sep 15 07:40:10 you could have the media player make check out noises Sep 15 07:40:12 beep ... beep beep Sep 15 07:40:14 I was imagining the poor clerks pecking at it with a stylus Sep 15 07:40:20 and then randomly not scan :) Sep 15 07:40:26 Actually, that wouldn't be terribly unworkable if you have external keyboard and ir scanner Sep 15 07:40:31 well, you've got lardman's barcode app... Sep 15 07:40:35 s/ir // Sep 15 07:40:35 GeneralAntilles meant: Actually, that wouldn't be terribly unworkable if you have external keyboard and scanner Sep 15 07:40:42 I can't believe we are discussing this :P Sep 15 07:40:59 you started it, Alystair :P Sep 15 07:41:02 Heck, the grocery store I shop in only recently upgraded to real LCDs Sep 15 07:41:04 the biggest joke is that the 770 is probably a lot faster than most POS terminals out there :) Sep 15 07:41:13 They had little two-line PoS displays Sep 15 07:41:19 Alystair: me either. There's at least on PoS "solution" for the N770 out there, IIRC Sep 15 07:41:20 :-P Sep 15 07:41:30 s/on/one/ Sep 15 07:41:41 Alystair: It was related to the oncoming demise of your 770 =) Sep 15 07:41:56 ok I'm already sold on the 2007HE, the SFX aren't nearly as annoying Sep 15 07:42:08 I dunno, I was using 350MHz PII machines when I was working retail. . . . ;) Sep 15 07:42:29 as long as the software makes some kind of sense O_o Sep 15 07:42:39 * Alystair is a UI master Sep 15 07:43:16 mmm...RFID at grocery stores would make for a brainless checkout Sep 15 07:43:40 you could just have a chute to throw all your stuff down and it would all be automagically scanned, but could be abused by those in the know Sep 15 07:43:40 Ha Sep 15 07:43:40 johnx: and for brainless surveillance XD Sep 15 07:43:46 tinfoiled cabbages! Sep 15 07:43:48 Walk through a portal to have your whole cart scanned? Sep 15 07:44:03 gomiam, meh...they already know what you buy Sep 15 07:44:17 * GeneralAntilles imagines a cacophonous utterance of "successfully scanned" noises as you walk through. Sep 15 07:44:18 I'm all for that, as long as the next portal zaps all tags. ;) Sep 15 07:44:21 the trick is to share a "point card" with a whole lot of people Sep 15 07:44:49 johnx: the problem is when anybode else is able to know too with little to no effort. Sep 15 07:44:59 s/when/that/ Sep 15 07:44:59 gomiam meant: johnx: the problem is that anybode else is able to know too with little to no effort. Sep 15 07:45:00 X-Fade, powerful omni-directional microwaves? Sep 15 07:45:16 right, the tags do need to get zapped one way or another Sep 15 07:45:25 or better yet, overwritten Sep 15 07:45:36 johnx: Well, I din't say you needed to walk through with your cart ;) Sep 15 07:45:49 They can't be overwritten. Sep 15 07:45:58 johnx, overwritten with your SSN? :P Sep 15 07:46:06 johnx: and what happens when a prankster starts zapping RFID tags left and right? Sep 15 07:46:24 gomiam: You can already do that. Sep 15 07:46:26 GeneralAntilles, nah, overwritten to make everything you bought look like adult diapers Sep 15 07:46:29 "hey, that lettuce can't cost $100!" "Sorry, sir, that's what the RFID tag says" Sep 15 07:46:47 I take zap to mean "kill" Sep 15 07:46:51 X-Fade: I know. That's why I bring it up Sep 15 07:47:09 But you can also stick another barcode on it now. Sep 15 07:47:18 I assume grocery store RFID tags will be read-only Sep 15 07:47:51 johnx: even worse. "Sir, you will have to bring your bag of tomatoes back to the vegetables section to weigh it again" Sep 15 07:47:52 Probably programmed by burning fuses with a laser. Sep 15 07:48:22 X-Fade: nothing a well placed EMP can't erase ;-) Sep 15 07:48:22 OK, I touched up tablets-dev a bit. Any objects? http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/tablets-dev-index.html Sep 15 07:48:39 * johnx imagines "harmless" RFID tags injected into fruits and veggies :) Sep 15 07:49:05 Hi I just wanted to say, your help solved my problem. Sep 15 07:49:11 GeneralAntilles, looks fine Sep 15 07:49:12 s/objects/objections/ Sep 15 07:49:12 GeneralAntilles meant: OK, I touched up tablets-dev a bit. Any objections? http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/tablets-dev-index.html Sep 15 07:49:26 dontupanic, don't forget to install the SSU update Sep 15 07:49:28 ~ssu Sep 15 07:49:29 hmm... ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU Sep 15 07:49:44 thanks Sep 15 07:50:18 it's strange. When I try to SSU, it complains about a lot of packages already being a newer version Sep 15 07:50:33 ok so now I have 2007HE installed, this makes the tablet much more awesome, right? Sep 15 07:50:46 Alystair, just make sure you have swap enabled. Sep 15 07:51:16 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: how about highlighting somwhow the device names in the Maemo releases section? Sep 15 07:51:17 yeah, it's zippy Sep 15 07:53:17 _marcell_, reload Sep 15 07:55:35 X-Fade, the council blog isn't showing up on Planet. Sep 15 07:56:01 all updated Sep 15 07:56:02 GeneralAntilles: Cron was dead. Sep 15 07:56:30 GeneralAntilles: Should show up within the hour. (I hope) ;) Sep 15 07:56:48 so the only place I should go for stuff is garage.maemo.org? Sep 15 07:57:20 Also, X-Fade, a few requests Sep 15 07:58:03 Can we get real authors for each article? So if I add a new article, it'll attribute it to me? Sep 15 07:58:06 and how about comments? Sep 15 07:58:11 is there a wiki for adding repository's Sep 15 07:58:45 ~installing-applications Sep 15 07:58:57 ~installing-applications is http://wiki.maemo.org/Installing_applications Sep 15 07:58:58 okay, GeneralAntilles Sep 15 07:59:01 ~extras Sep 15 07:59:02 well, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Sep 15 07:59:05 GeneralAntilles: Yes and yes. Sep 15 07:59:17 thank you Sep 15 08:09:13 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: one last thing: the "please see the wiki article on updating the tablet firmware" should have a link to the wiki. Sep 15 08:09:29 one more thing before I go to bed Sep 15 08:10:02 hrm I wonder if 2008HE is really that bad if you're only planning on running one app Sep 15 08:10:36 does any one know of a good calendar program with a to-do list? Sep 15 08:13:49 _marcell_, something like: "For information on flashing your tablet, please see the maemo.org wiki article on updating the tablet firmware." ? Sep 15 08:14:05 dontupanic, gpe-{calendar,todo}, http://gpe.handhelds.org/projects/GPE-{calendar,todo}.shtml Sep 15 08:14:41 although I have to admit I don't use gpe todo myself, just the calendar Sep 15 08:15:21 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: there is a space in the second link, that is why it did not show up for me. Sep 15 08:15:48 Ah, weird Sep 15 08:15:50 * Alystair kicks maemo.org server's asses Sep 15 08:15:51 Should be fixed now Sep 15 08:18:06 <_marcell_> GeneralAntilles: ok, I put it to tablets-dev Sep 15 08:18:33 Cool, thanks! Sep 15 08:18:42 * GeneralAntilles wants all the plain-HTML pages to look the same. Sep 15 08:20:33 X-Fade, any word on Downloads comments? Sep 15 08:20:47 What's up? Sep 15 08:20:59 They don't seem to be working Sep 15 08:21:07 I added one to http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/fbreader/ a few days ago Sep 15 08:21:10 It's not there Sep 15 08:21:12 GeneralAntilles: Oh btw, did you set your name to public in the account settings? Sep 15 08:21:28 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3677 Sep 15 08:21:36 GeneralAntilles: (This is for the council page) Sep 15 08:21:43 GeneralAntilles: Ok, will look into that. Sep 15 08:21:46 X-Fade, I think so. Sep 15 08:22:34 GeneralAntilles: Then your name should show up in the council blog, but it doesn't seem to do that. Sep 15 08:22:48 I can confirm in a sec if it ever lets me log in. ;) Sep 15 08:24:34 How are the permissions for posting announcements handled, by the way? Sep 15 08:24:42 Tim said he wasn't able to add a new article Sep 15 08:25:14 Propably because cron didn't copy over the changes. Sep 15 08:25:25 Or at least the cron job. Sep 15 08:25:35 Ah, OK. Sep 15 08:35:25 GeneralAntilles: I can confirm the bug, trying to find out what is wrong. Sep 15 09:20:51 GeneralAntilles, my bad, I meant "serious connectivity (I2C and sub-par RS232 just isn't enough) Sep 15 09:22:04 USB? :p Sep 15 09:22:16 Any of the other OMAP interfaces. Sep 15 09:22:20 GeneralAntilles: I fixed the comments, but still need to fix the new comments creation. Sep 15 09:23:41 Anyway, you'll probably like the overo more for that, crashanddie. Sep 15 09:25:45 GAN800, yeah, if that ever sees daylight Sep 15 09:25:53 November Sep 15 09:26:12 Waiting on some less broken OMAP silicon. ;) Sep 15 09:29:41 Hi Sep 15 09:29:52 Everyone had a chance to have a look at the website revamp plan? Sep 15 09:30:32 * aquatix missed that one Sep 15 09:30:34 url? Sep 15 09:31:18 http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Task:Improving_maemo.org/proposal Sep 15 09:31:27 dneary, haven't done more than skim it so far. Sep 15 09:31:52 Wondering if I'm on the right track Sep 15 09:32:02 Here's a thing, though... Sep 15 09:32:20 For some docs (official guides & API docs) it absolutely makes sense to categorise by release Sep 15 09:33:22 For others (outside documentation, articles, tutorials, wiki pages, etc...) it makes more sense to group by function, and have the articles listed according to some sort of "usefulness" metric, where usefulness decreases over time, but useful articles from 2 years ago can still get voted up Sep 15 09:33:24 I think we should probably set aside the official docs for the time being. Sep 15 09:33:38 We need to fit them in somewhere - right now it's a mess Sep 15 09:34:03 Mess #1, for example, is this transition period where a bunch of stuff was consolidated for Diablo Sep 15 09:34:06 I think getting together good index pages will help a lot. Sep 15 09:34:22 And the only link to the consolidated guide is the PDF, apart from one hard-to-find place Sep 15 09:34:40 ``NOTE: search for "Nokia N810 software download", the download page on maemo.org is not on the first 10 pages'' <- maybe put some more keywords on that page? it already mentiones most of it already though :/ Sep 15 09:35:18 Do you know of a web spider that goes through a site and can draw a directed graph (page X links to page Y) of the site? Sep 15 09:35:59 aquatix: I think that links on maemo.org have rel="nofollow" added by default bu midgard, which is absolutely the worst thing to do Sep 15 09:36:11 But maybe Henri can correct me there Sep 15 09:36:20 Do they seriously? Sep 15 09:36:29 dneary: View source? :) Sep 15 09:36:53 dneary: http://www.aharef.info/static/htmlgraph/ ? Sep 15 09:37:16 dneary: Then you should see that that is ******* :) Sep 15 09:37:28 X-Fade: My mistake :) Sep 15 09:37:49 Self-censor? :P Sep 15 09:38:06 GeneralAntilles: yep. Sep 15 09:38:31 dneary, I loved your proposal Sep 15 09:38:50 Thanks anddie Sep 15 09:39:08 Why isn't your name spelt Andy? Sep 15 09:39:14 "Crash Andy" Sep 15 09:39:14 It would be good to decide what to do with these OS200x references too. Sep 15 09:39:23 because that's not it :P Sep 15 09:39:36 it was during my lame years Sep 15 09:39:42 "crash" & "die" Sep 15 09:39:43 aquatix: Thanks! http://www.aharef.info/static/htmlgraph/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maemo.org Sep 15 09:39:44 dneary: i think it's three words Sep 15 09:39:45 Wow.... Sep 15 09:39:54 lol Sep 15 09:39:57 haha Sep 15 09:40:05 Well, Sebastian just got himself a new name. Sep 15 09:40:21 Unless Andy is close enough to André Sep 15 09:41:00 Anyway, not having a certain name never stopped me from using it as one of mine Sep 15 09:41:46 dneary: Nice graph, but pretty useless without urls. Sep 15 09:41:51 Indeed Sep 15 09:41:56 I bet we could copy-edit this one and push it live pretty easily: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org/community Sep 15 09:42:04 "Hi, how do you do? I'm [Vincent|Paul|Fred|Eric|Jack|whatever] Sep 15 09:42:07 And it's a graph of the front page, as far as I can tell, not a graph of the site structure Sep 15 09:42:42 It rendered awfully quickly for it to be a graph of the whole site. ;) Sep 15 09:43:09 GeneralAntilles: Yes, we could - although I'd love to have a graphic designer's rendering of what the page will look like Sep 15 09:43:40 GeneralAntilles: Did you check your privacy settings? Sep 15 09:43:50 X-Fade, yeah, it's public. Sep 15 09:44:46 Hmm I see in the db you wrote it, but that doesn't show up on the page ;) Sep 15 09:46:47 X-Fade: btw, karma computation is stuck again Sep 15 09:46:55 Tutorials vs How-tos vs Quick Start Guides in documentation is really confusing. Sep 15 09:47:21 and, what is more interesting, stuck in some really weird state where score for apps is not divisible by the number of apps =) Sep 15 09:48:06 GA: Not confusing if you place QSGs and Tutorials into Newbies section and How-tos with reference Sep 15 09:48:53 RST38h, this is all for the developer documentation Sep 15 09:49:10 RST38h: Yeah, karma is stuck. Sep 15 09:49:14 * GeneralAntilles removes gronmayer from the Improving maemo.org/proposal page. Sep 15 09:49:14 yea but you can have several sections there as well Sep 15 09:49:39 RST38h: Applications has 2 karma modifiers. Fixed number and the rating influences it too. Sep 15 09:49:47 X-Fade: Ah Sep 15 09:49:57 I wish we had some graphic designers who'd step up to help get a new look together. Sep 15 09:49:59 that explains it Sep 15 09:50:29 GeneralAntilles: Glauber will help there, I think. Sep 15 09:50:30 GA: Google seems to have been going without graphic designers for a long while Sep 15 09:50:36 Works fine without them ;) Sep 15 09:50:50 OK, somebody, anybody, willing to step up. ;) Sep 15 09:51:33 My plan for it amounts to "lightweight and tablet-friendly" Sep 15 09:51:57 Can we take the Repositories link off the front page? Sep 15 09:51:59 Reduce the number of requests needed for a page. Sep 15 09:52:59 Bugzilla and the wiki need to be moved up into the top-level navbar Sep 15 09:53:36 GA: I can probably help but do not expect too much Sep 15 09:54:01 [and no, I do not understand adamant desire to exterminate all repositories other than Extras] Sep 15 09:54:16 What's not to understand? Sep 15 09:54:18 GA: What page do you want to redesign? Sep 15 09:54:26 The impracticality of it Sep 15 09:54:28 Repositories are trouble for end-users, developers and Nokia. Sep 15 09:54:33 They reduce the quality of the user-experience Sep 15 09:54:40 make it harder to troubleshoot problems Sep 15 09:54:51 and reflect poorly on Nokia. Sep 15 09:54:55 Well, they help me find stuff. That is improved user experience for me :) Sep 15 09:55:09 No, they will not help you find stuff. Sep 15 09:55:12 Extras helps you find stuff Sep 15 09:55:14 Now, how 3rd party repositories reflect on Nokia is a different subject :) Sep 15 09:55:17 since everything you need is right there. Sep 15 09:55:26 it is not :) Sep 15 09:55:30 Rather than being scattered all over the internet. Sep 15 09:55:39 GeneralAntilles: which is why I still need some 3rd party repositories, right? Sep 15 09:55:40 if it were, I would not need to search other repos for it Sep 15 09:55:44 It should be if developers would get their act together. Sep 15 09:56:02 RST38h, that sounds like an argument against 3rd party repositories to me. . . . Sep 15 09:56:25 gomiam, my point was, that's why everything should be in Extras. Sep 15 09:56:30 So you don't have to search far and wide for stuff. Sep 15 09:56:35 GA: well, if you kill off 3rd party repos and their contents is not in Extras (which is what you want to do), then content is lost Sep 15 09:56:51 until scratchbox/qemu/the autobuilder gets to a state where it can build/run everything, I don't think you'll ever be able to get rid of 3rd party repositories (or you should allow binary uploads to extras/extras-devel...) Sep 15 09:56:54 No, I want as much content as possible to be in Extras. Sep 15 09:57:08 GA: So, before you go off putting down 3rd party repos, at least make sure their content is duplicated in extras Sep 15 09:57:19 Goddamn Sep 15 09:57:19 BTW, there is a relatively clean way to do it: Sep 15 09:57:27 It's the same stupid argument people try to use against the wiki. Sep 15 09:57:33 RST38h: Check my talk at the summit ;) Sep 15 09:57:51 GA: Not familiar with it but it may hold for the wiki as well Sep 15 09:58:13 "No, nobody should use that wiki until all the information is there, we should use the itT wiki until that other wiki has everything" Sep 15 09:58:20 Anyway, you can create user/incoming category in Extras, import 3rd party stuff there, and run static dependency check to make sure it checks out ok Sep 15 09:58:24 Well, the wiki can't have everything until people start putting stuff into it. Sep 15 09:58:32 * GeneralAntilles gives up. Sep 15 09:58:35 GA: No, that one sounds wrong =) Sep 15 09:58:35 we also need more people actively maintaining extras - bring content over, assists developers with packaging etc, etc. Sep 15 09:58:39 It's a stupid discussion. Sep 15 09:59:10 Back to the design question: what page do you want to design? Sep 15 09:59:14 jott: Yes, we do. Also.. check my talk at the summit ;) Sep 15 09:59:31 X-Fade: will do! :) Sep 15 09:59:58 and somehow fight with the qemu mess :/ Sep 15 10:00:19 RST38h, we need a new look. Sep 15 10:00:23 Simple and lightweight Sep 15 10:00:24 maybe on special builder with sbrsh? Sep 15 10:00:30 GA: Overall or page layouts? Sep 15 10:00:47 Most pages share the same layout Sep 15 10:00:52 so it doesn't really matter which one Sep 15 10:00:56 Start with the front page Sep 15 10:00:57 GA: Haver to go to the meeting but when I get back we can talk Sep 15 10:01:05 jott: The builder now uses the qemu cvs* version. Sep 15 10:01:13 I will try to help with layout, can't help with artwork Sep 15 10:01:14 X-Fade, should this be public? http://test.maemo.org/ Sep 15 10:01:31 X-Fade: no. it should be back to 0.8.2.. Sep 15 10:01:35 morgen Sep 15 10:01:37 GeneralAntilles: Well, no.. Sep 15 10:01:37 X-Fade: both version are broken.. Sep 15 10:01:52 X-Fade: and best - they are broken in different ways. Sep 15 10:01:56 summit talk... I need to finally start work on presentation Sep 15 10:02:01 jott: Can you mention something on the list? Sep 15 10:02:26 X-Fade: well i guess we could discuss this on summit :) Sep 15 10:02:29 X-Fade: also see my blog entry about qemu stuff :) Sep 15 10:02:34 given that its just a few days ahead. Sep 15 10:02:46 X-Fade: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3672 Sep 15 10:03:06 Mek: Yep, have read that.. Sep 15 10:03:19 jott: Yes, be sure to talk to Ed about it. Sep 15 10:03:40 X-Fade: yep. i already had contact with him :) Sep 15 10:04:13 btw. will there be name tags handed out? :) Sep 15 10:04:39 seriously wtf "Moistened by his blood the toast was glazed to perfection as the red fluid of life oozed from his mouth. The toast felt regret as his corpse began to chill. It wanted so badly to cry to the heavens and proclaim its love for the man. But alas it couldn't, for it was merely a plate of French toast." Sep 15 10:05:16 andre___, ping. Sep 15 10:05:27 GeneralAntilles, pong Sep 15 10:05:44 crashanddie, yes indeed wtf. GeneralAntilles i thought that was some top secret new stuff, not maemo2 tests \@/ Sep 15 10:06:16 andre___, can you ponder on having a couple of top-ten lists (like from the bug jar) on the bugzilla front page? Sep 15 10:06:17 X-Fade: do you think it might be possible to get a sbrsh system running? (like as someone knowing nokias policies a bit) Sep 15 10:06:19 * lcuk is over the hump Sep 15 10:06:36 lcuk, found it in an old wiki we had as a school project, I'm refreshing it a bit... And this is what one of the spammers posted... Sep 15 10:06:41 OR maybe top-5 lists Sep 15 10:06:56 GeneralAntilles, refering to duplicates, or votes, or...? Sep 15 10:06:58 jott: I have no idea. I have no access to the actual build machines, that is Ed's thing.. Sep 15 10:07:00 I wouldn't hack the front page for that Sep 15 10:07:10 X-Fade: ok. will ask him then... Sep 15 10:07:53 GeneralAntilles, maybe having a more explicit link is ok, but in general such stuff should be part of a summary page that guenther hacks on Sep 15 10:08:03 so about name tags, are there any? because otherwise it might be hard to spot some people.. Sep 15 10:08:27 It's just hard for new people to jump into bugzilla when you can't really get to any bugs right off the bat. Sep 15 10:09:23 well, what is the usecase you're after? triaging, or searching in general? Sep 15 10:09:58 New users Sep 15 10:09:59 jott: I haven't seen anything about name tags. Sep 15 10:10:02 GeneralAntilles: there were more arguments about why to use the itt wiki. the lack of stability on the maemo wiki, for example Sep 15 10:10:05 They land on bugs.maemo.org Sep 15 10:10:06 Mek: does the eabi version work out for you btw, or does it still make trouble? Sep 15 10:10:10 Now what? Sep 15 10:10:20 dystopia, I really don't want to hear it. ;) Sep 15 10:10:30 Mek: we could probably ask to get this version installed on the build machines.. Sep 15 10:10:36 Do the new users enter a bug number in the box? Sep 15 10:10:38 I'm still not using bugzilla because I have no clue what I can help with Sep 15 10:10:43 How many bugs are in the database? Sep 15 10:10:43 I vote when I'm asked to, and that's it Sep 15 10:10:51 Am I gonna find one that's 3 years old and closed? Sep 15 10:10:55 Or one that doesn't exist yet? Sep 15 10:10:56 dont bring the subject up then ;> Sep 15 10:10:58 Other than that, I have no clue how to manage bugs, track 'em, or find out what's happened with 'em Sep 15 10:11:13 jott: about one in every 1000 or so fork syscalls fails (I don't know exactly how many), so with some manual intervention I can build stuff with it... Sep 15 10:11:32 GeneralAntilles, depends on what you're searching for :) and there's links for entering a new report and searching the existing ones Sep 15 10:11:46 GeneralAntilles, i agree that we should have a link at the frontpage when the summary page is set up Sep 15 10:11:53 Mek: bleh, i actually had this with every qemu version in a non reproducible manner at some point in time :( Sep 15 10:12:39 qemu ... bleah Sep 15 10:12:41 andre___, a couple of "Top 10 open enhancements by votes", "Top 10 open bugs by severity", "10 most recently filed bugs", "10 most recently updated bugs" links might help people to get a feel for things. Sep 15 10:12:54 RST38h: write something better *please* :) Sep 15 10:12:57 crashanddie, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugsquad Sep 15 10:13:08 jott: just use the real thing Sep 15 10:13:28 RST38h: gna, yeah. that's why i suggested sbrsh for the build hosts... Sep 15 10:13:44 andre___, maybe a Busquad link on the bugzilla front page? "If you're interested in getting involved in bugzilla, head on over to the Bugsquad!" Sep 15 10:13:48 RST38h: but this might not be an option.. :( Sep 15 10:14:05 * RST38h cross-compiles on ia32 Sep 15 10:14:41 RST38h: yeah that works for your stuff. but it does not work for all stuff :) Sep 15 10:15:05 at least not without touching qemu or some other way of running arm code.. Sep 15 10:15:16 even if it works for 90 percent, it is worth doing for those 90 Sep 15 10:15:19 GeneralAntilles, that sounds good. Can you file an enhancement bug report against me? ;-) Sep 15 10:16:06 I don't think the debian packaging stuff really supports cross compiling? Sep 15 10:16:52 Mek: well you can cross compile - but it will fail at the point where you need native programs to proceed :) Sep 15 10:17:51 there is dpkg-cross for example.. Sep 15 10:17:55 crashanddie, if you do start getting involved in bugzilla, think you could take some mental notes while you do? Sep 15 10:18:15 oh yes. i'd love to see that too Sep 15 10:18:24 My perspective isn't quite what it used to be as far as that goes, so it's hard for my to picture the stumbling points that prevent people from getting involved. Sep 15 10:18:36 I had a lot of outside prodding from other people. . . . Sep 15 10:19:10 I don't know if I can commit to it Sep 15 10:19:21 but IF I do (get involved) Sep 15 10:19:26 I'll do better than a few mental notes Sep 15 10:19:31 I'll write a bloody essay Sep 15 10:20:13 * GeneralAntilles can't wait. Sep 15 10:20:31 Does anybody have a link to the svg of the maemo.org logo handy? Sep 15 10:20:32 GeneralAntilles: do you know of any Maemo media players that handle embedded album cover art in mp3 files? Sep 15 10:20:42 It's not the easiest thing in the world for people who are already deeply involved to think up things that would be useful for people who aren't yet involved. ;) Sep 15 10:21:04 * jott hands GeneralAntilles his charged cattle prod to "motivate" crashanddie Sep 15 10:21:15 vanRijn, embedded? Is that actually part of ID3? Sep 15 10:21:19 GeneralAntilles: yes Sep 15 10:21:29 sure it is. Sep 15 10:21:29 Dunno Sep 15 10:21:36 Canola will download them separately Sep 15 10:21:37 all my mp3s have embedded covers :) Sep 15 10:21:45 Not sure about embedded, though. Sep 15 10:21:51 * jott hates players that try to fetch covers "automatically" Sep 15 10:22:26 it's deemed to fail. Sep 15 10:23:08 worked for me Sep 15 10:23:15 GeneralAntilles: there's a couple of canola plugins/extras things that will go through a collection in batch mode and fetch album art from a variety of sources, including embedded id3, but it sure would be nice if it just did it automatically on the fly Sep 15 10:23:45 never worked for me. especially compared to the good and *right* quality covers i already have. Sep 15 10:24:04 ok, some mainstream albums where ok :) Sep 15 10:24:31 canola-tuning and canola-tuning-plugin (iirc) is what does that, btw Sep 15 10:25:18 actually even worked for obscure foreign albums Sep 15 10:25:30 lucky you RST38h :) Sep 15 10:25:33 which i found weird Sep 15 10:25:50 still i see no point in fetching it when it's already there :) Sep 15 10:27:23 jott: did you try canola-tuning and canola-tuning-plugin? Sep 15 10:28:07 vanRijn: no, but i don't use canola/my n810 to listen to music anyway. Sep 15 10:28:20 jott: what do you use? Sep 15 10:28:25 ipod :P Sep 15 10:28:30 hah Sep 15 10:29:46 vanRijn, canola-tuning-plugin supercedes canola-tuning. Sep 15 10:30:02 GAN800: hm. I think I have both installed Sep 15 10:37:15 Hi ! Sep 15 10:37:23 Hello, Khertan_n810. Sep 15 10:38:24 i ll haven t a released version of mContacts for the summit :( Sep 15 10:39:41 * Khertan_n810 just discover that gtktree cellrenderertext can be edited in the column Sep 15 10:39:44 view Sep 15 10:40:01 :( Sep 15 10:40:06 could be a good thing for a todo app Sep 15 10:41:07 Stskeeps: i ll show anyway the current developpment version Sep 15 10:42:47 is there going to be an official calendar application for maemo coming soon? I need PIM applications on the N810 before I can throw my palm out the window. Sep 15 10:43:09 vanRijn: not official Sep 15 10:43:19 but i ll present mCalendar Sep 15 10:43:20 vanRijn, non-nokia people don't know. Nokia people won't say Sep 15 10:43:24 at the summit Sep 15 10:43:50 http://khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot31.png Sep 15 10:44:09 * vanRijn looks Sep 15 10:44:11 * GeneralAntilles is blinded. Sep 15 10:44:16 don t take care of colors in the list this was for test purpose Sep 15 10:44:44 Khertan_n810: how bullet-proof is syncing with google calendar? Sep 15 10:45:01 bullet-proof ? Sep 15 10:45:32 sync with google works very well Sep 15 10:45:36 Hehe Sep 15 10:45:49 yeah... as in... not going to mess up my google calendar and not going to miss things that are important, like all-day, multi-day, recurring events, alarms, etc., etc. Sep 15 10:45:51 * GeneralAntilles puts a couple of rounds through Khertan's server. Sep 15 10:45:53 Not very. Sep 15 10:46:14 at least in the 0.4.1 Sep 15 10:46:30 all day event and alarm are sync Sep 15 10:46:45 and as i use alarmd ... Sep 15 10:46:56 it work also when device sleep Sep 15 10:47:10 and don t need to keep the app open like gpe Sep 15 10:47:52 does nokia 770 use maemo? Sep 15 10:48:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo_(operating_system) Sep 15 10:48:24 peter|work, yes Sep 15 10:48:28 Khertan_n810: okay, cool. i'll look into it. is there any way to synchronize it with a desktop app like thunderbird or evolution or korganizer? Sep 15 10:48:35 GeneralAntilles: why do u said not very ? Sep 15 10:48:54 Because I put bullets through your server, so it's apparently not bullet proof. :P Sep 15 10:49:07 thunderbird can be sync with googlecal Sep 15 10:49:23 does linux/filesystem reside on sd/mmc card in that? Sep 15 10:49:25 * johnx syncs thunderbird with google cal Sep 15 10:49:25 bullets ? you mean bugs ? Sep 15 10:49:35 peter|work, no Sep 15 10:49:42 ~boot-sd Sep 15 10:49:43 from memory, boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card Sep 15 10:49:51 so where is the filesystem? Sep 15 10:49:51 Khertan_n810: vanRijn was talking about bullet-proofness Sep 15 10:50:12 Khertan_n810, bulletproof = still works in bad situations Sep 15 10:50:16 aquarius-: maybe but don t understand what it s mean Sep 15 10:50:32 peter|work, normally, it's on an internal flash chip Sep 15 10:50:44 bullet is amunition for a weapon Sep 15 10:50:45 so Sep 15 10:50:47 is it possible to sync the contacts program on the n810 with anything on the linux desktop? or memos? Sep 15 10:51:03 * GeneralAntilles wishes there were a Bugzilla search scrubber. Sep 15 10:51:04 so what if i want to store something from a PC say like a sdmmc card? Sep 15 10:51:12 or microsdmmc Sep 15 10:51:21 vanRijn: mContacts will be sync with google contacts Sep 15 10:51:26 but not ready yet Sep 15 10:51:29 Er, the 770 uses RS-MMC Sep 15 10:51:35 There's no such thing as a "sdmmc" Sep 15 10:51:45 Khertan_n810: yeah, so `bulletproof' normally means `can it stand bad situations', with GeneralAntilles taking it literally and putting some bullets in your server ;) Sep 15 10:51:47 But, yes, the RS-MMC cards are normally FAT Sep 15 10:51:48 Khertan_n810: when will it be ready? Sep 15 10:51:54 okay - suppose i want to store some file such as mp3 files how do i do it? Sep 15 10:51:57 So you can just put files on them and use it. Sep 15 10:52:02 Just put files on the card. Sep 15 10:52:02 okay Sep 15 10:52:13 from a windows pc? Sep 15 10:52:13 vanRijn: when it ll be ok :) Sep 15 10:52:20 From wherever Sep 15 10:52:30 okay Sep 15 10:52:56 Khertan_n810: heh. okay. =:) Sep 15 10:53:00 Think of it like a little external hard drive. Sep 15 10:53:30 so nokia tablets have an ext2/ext3 file system which resides in nand/some flash and a mmc card with FAT? Sep 15 10:53:41 No, it's JFFS2 on NAND Sep 15 10:53:51 err. okay cool Sep 15 10:53:55 It's an un-managed NAND, so it needs filesystem-level wear-leveling. Sep 15 10:54:07 but overall, yes, that's the right idea Sep 15 10:54:10 so how does firmware upgrade takes place Sep 15 10:54:14 Journaled Flash Filesystem 2 Sep 15 10:54:26 i want to update my filesystem and kernel Sep 15 10:54:31 You flash a filesystem image onto the NAND over USB Sep 15 10:54:32 ~flashing Sep 15 10:54:33 well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 15 10:54:42 connect through usb, program on computer recopies the fs over to nand on the device Sep 15 10:55:02 aside, "flashing" is such a strangely anachronistic term in this case Sep 15 10:55:29 is there any flashing tool available? Sep 15 10:55:39 ~flashing Sep 15 10:55:40 methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 15 10:55:51 peter|work, hit the flashing link :) Sep 15 10:56:10 my firewall does not allow me to access that site for some reason Sep 15 10:56:27 Yes, there's software available for Windows, Linux, and OS X. Sep 15 10:56:43 Only the Linux or Windows flashers will allow you to only flash the kernel or rootfs. Sep 15 10:56:43 yes, there's a flasher available on that page. bookmark it to look at when you're home :) Sep 15 10:56:49 s/Windows/OS X/ Sep 15 10:56:50 GeneralAntilles meant: Only the Linux or OS X flashers will allow you to only flash the kernel or rootfs. Sep 15 10:58:23 okay trying to understand how things work - for our own device i thought of updating using sd/mmc card Sep 15 10:58:49 im trying to design a flashing tool sort of thing for our own device. Sep 15 10:58:51 you can update the kernel and initfs from a running system Sep 15 10:58:58 then you could update the rootfs from initfs Sep 15 10:59:10 Flashing from an SD/MMC isn't much different from flashing over USB Sep 15 10:59:24 right now im looking into filesystems Sep 15 10:59:26 The X-Loader on the tablets just isn't set up for that. Sep 15 10:59:33 you might find mtd-utils interesting Sep 15 10:59:41 whether to have 2 different file systems? Sep 15 10:59:46 JFFS2 and FAT Sep 15 11:00:12 JFFS2 you'll definitely need for any unmanaged NAND Sep 15 11:00:29 Ext2/3 or FAT on unmanaged NAND will burn it out in a heartbeat. Sep 15 11:00:40 hm, is it an idea to format the internal 2GB of my n810 jffs2 instead of FAT? Sep 15 11:00:49 No Sep 15 11:00:53 Ext2/3 would be an option, though. Sep 15 11:00:53 won't work Sep 15 11:01:00 ah right Sep 15 11:01:04 JFFS2 i found to be problematic for say if power went off Sep 15 11:01:05 because that one is managed? Sep 15 11:01:10 Right Sep 15 11:01:13 kk Sep 15 11:01:26 does tablets have 2GB nand? Sep 15 11:01:26 * johnx never had problems with jffs2 corruption Sep 15 11:01:33 peter|work: the n810 has Sep 15 11:01:38 kinda Sep 15 11:01:46 The N810 has what amounts to a soldered-on SD card. Sep 15 11:01:49 the n800 and n810 have 256MB of unmanaged nand Sep 15 11:01:53 so you need a 100% reliable driver Sep 15 11:01:54 In addition to the 256MB of NAND. Sep 15 11:02:07 peter|work: what GeneralAntilles says :) Sep 15 11:02:07 the n810 *also* has a 2GB piece of NAND that is basically a soldered in sd-card Sep 15 11:02:10 sd cards are NAND Sep 15 11:02:25 They just have hardware wear-leveling. Sep 15 11:02:28 peter|work, what are you designing, if you don't mind the question? Sep 15 11:02:29 can i put a JFFS2 file system on it? Sep 15 11:02:41 JFFS2 is only for unmanaged NAND Sep 15 11:02:49 peter|work, yes Sep 15 11:02:52 what is managed nand? Sep 15 11:02:57 peter|work: that was my question too ;) ext2 or 3 is better for an SD card Sep 15 11:03:00 Managed NAND (like the kind found in SD cards) needs a regular filesystem. Sep 15 11:03:08 So, Ext2/3 or FAT Sep 15 11:03:15 peter|work, sd cards that present a block device to OSes Sep 15 11:03:36 okay - kind of a portable device which has nand and SDMMC device Sep 15 11:03:49 * aquatix thinks about formatting it to ext2 so it won't get corrupted again and is able to do serious things like subversion repo's Sep 15 11:04:02 SDMMC should be FAT else windows dont understand them Sep 15 11:04:08 Right Sep 15 11:04:19 i cant put music files from windows PC Sep 15 11:04:37 It's probably easier to go with a bootloader that'll grab an image from FAT rather than Ext, anyway. Sep 15 11:05:12 is FAT stable when compared to EXT2? Sep 15 11:05:21 i thought FAT has issues Sep 15 11:05:24 FAT is compatible Sep 15 11:05:28 But not much more. Sep 15 11:05:29 GeneralAntilles: would you recommend ext3 over ext2 on the internal mem? Sep 15 11:05:41 or is it overkill for it Sep 15 11:05:49 peter|work, yeah, of course it does, but it's the only thing guaranteed to be compatible Sep 15 11:05:51 aquatix, well, the benefit to ext3 is that you wont have to fsck whenever you crash. Sep 15 11:05:59 aquatix, I use it on SD cards Sep 15 11:06:05 But you're also introducing more writes for journaling Sep 15 11:06:14 not a big deal for replaceable external cards Sep 15 11:06:26 i got confused Sep 15 11:06:28 but maybe an issue for the non-replaceable 2GB in the N810 Sep 15 11:06:44 yeah, that's why i'm asking, as i'm thinking abuot using it on the non-replaceable mem Sep 15 11:06:46 It's probably _not_ as issue considering the life of the device. Sep 15 11:06:54 do you guys say FAT is the filesystem to choose when it comes to SD/MMC? Sep 15 11:06:56 but i won't use it a lot Sep 15 11:07:02 peter|work: yeah Sep 15 11:07:02 At worst, with ext2, you'll have to fsck a little more. Sep 15 11:07:13 peter|work, yes, if it needs to work with windows. Sep 15 11:07:16 peter|work: especially when you want windows compatibility to put files on it and such Sep 15 11:07:22 i wonder if ext3 with external journal would be better Sep 15 11:07:29 we all like it that way, isnt it? Sep 15 11:07:29 (Which, actually, may balance out the writing benefits of not having journalling \) Sep 15 11:07:34 I use ext3 because I don't even own a windows computer Sep 15 11:07:45 aquatix, I don't have the data to call it either way, honestly. Sep 15 11:07:54 GeneralAntilles: fair enough, just asking :) Sep 15 11:08:02 I wish I could say for sure Sep 15 11:08:13 and it'd be interesting to see some write-samples to get an idea of the difference Sep 15 11:08:19 indeed Sep 15 11:08:45 okay what if in tablet the bootloaders get corrupted while flashing Sep 15 11:08:53 Maybe a good question is how often you're planning on doing hard reboots. ;) Sep 15 11:08:54 is there a rescue mode or something? Sep 15 11:09:04 peter|work, with OMAP, yes. Sep 15 11:09:16 You can flash a new bootloader over the serial connection Sep 15 11:09:28 The tablets can't recover from an SD card, though. Sep 15 11:10:09 lol Sep 15 11:10:17 peter|work, i would just not flash nolo Sep 15 11:10:29 *cough*doomed*cough* Sep 15 11:10:32 Hehe Sep 15 11:10:34 as that enables usb flasher Sep 15 11:10:54 I'm wondering how far down the SD recovery with SD takes place. Sep 15 11:11:05 s/SD/OMAP3/2 Sep 15 11:11:33 sorry, got dc Sep 15 11:11:51 http://www.bress.net/blog/archives/114-How-Long-Does-a-Flash-Drive-Last.html Sep 15 11:11:54 peter|work, so which chipset is this based on? omap2? omap3? pxa270? Sep 15 11:12:29 omap2 Sep 15 11:13:25 okay guys, thanks, i have to go now. catch you later Sep 15 11:14:12 I'm not really sure if something changed between OMAP2 and OMAP3 to make SD recovery possible Sep 15 11:14:25 or if it's just the difference between Nokia's and, say, the Beagle's setup. Sep 15 11:16:16 and how much of that would be ever available on nokias Sep 15 11:18:38 hey, hrw. what's the next ARM device you'll get? Sep 15 11:18:50 johnx: no idea now Sep 15 11:19:05 johnx: maybe beagleboard rev.C Sep 15 11:19:34 johnx: I am less and less in a need of new arm hw Sep 15 11:19:34 those do look interesting...lot's of fun hardware appearing these days Sep 15 11:19:54 sooner will rather have to get Atom based netbook Sep 15 11:20:20 but that has to wait too Sep 15 11:20:40 tired of dealing with cross compile issues? Sep 15 11:21:06 johnx: even for Atom I do crosscompile Sep 15 11:21:23 johnx: OpenEmbedded hides cross compilation problems Sep 15 11:21:38 I'm very interested to see how the cortex will compare to the atom in everyday use Sep 15 11:22:24 omap3430 can play 720p in realtime Sep 15 11:22:32 without using dsp iirc Sep 15 11:22:44 I think I remember that Sep 15 11:23:02 it works at > 600MHZ Sep 15 11:23:18 peter|work: MHz is not a definition of cpu speed Sep 15 11:23:44 what is? Sep 15 11:24:04 with todays cpus it is often hard to compare them Sep 15 11:24:17 hrw: why do you need to do crosscompile on Atom? Sep 15 11:24:33 gletelli_: not 'on Atom' but 'for Atom' Sep 15 11:24:52 gletelli_: I do not do compilation on target devices - for that I have quadcore desktop Sep 15 11:25:17 yes sorry! It's what I meant- for Atom Sep 15 11:25:32 I thought it was x86 Sep 15 11:26:16 peter|work: how to compare quadcore x86-64 which has sse, large l1/l2 cache with omap2420 which has small cache but has dsp unit inside? Sep 15 11:26:21 gletelli_: Atom is x86 Sep 15 11:27:14 hrw: i wont compare ; Sep 15 11:27:17 it depends on what you want to use it for Sep 15 11:27:41 say i want to play a mpeg movie - can i play it in both i would look like that Sep 15 11:28:02 i had trouble playing movies in omap2 Sep 15 11:28:32 then i had to use dsp Sep 15 11:29:05 are you sure thats omap2s fault and not the archaic framebuffer iumplimentation on this system (we waste so many cycles copying memory and doing stuff which should sit in the faster internal omap2 framebuffer Sep 15 11:29:48 may be youre right - but it depends on how much time you have to make something work Sep 15 11:30:10 omap3 based tablet would be nice - if designed properly Sep 15 11:30:19 yer, omap2 is/was a great chip - on this device its drawn down Sep 15 11:30:29 hrw :) agreed Sep 15 11:30:34 * johnx started looking at the 3M mini-projector... Sep 15 11:30:34 and hi btw Sep 15 11:31:06 lcuk: osim? Sep 15 11:31:11 WARNING: Do not look into 3M Mini-Projector with your remaining eye! Sep 15 11:31:17 summit only - arriving on thursday Sep 15 11:31:18 peter|work, I completely agree. At some point you have to figure out whether optimization is worth your time or whether you should buy faster hardware Sep 15 11:32:02 lcuk: it's only got a weird external framebuffer because the omap2 can't drive an LCD that size Sep 15 11:32:05 yeah - there are lots of things to consider isnt it? skill level, num of ppl in your team, budget and so on Sep 15 11:32:10 lcuk: so arguably it is the omap2's fault :P Sep 15 11:32:13 that is of course assuming you can afford to just throw away what you have and accept the hit on your poscket Sep 15 11:32:43 Robot101, well, the 770 had the same issue, but the external framebuffer wasn't nearly as broken. ;) Sep 15 11:33:05 Robot101, seriously - 640*480 wouldv been great (and liqbase is practically indistinguishable at that res) Sep 15 11:33:08 omap3 is twice as faster as omap2 Sep 15 11:33:37 Nearly the same power consumption, too. Sep 15 11:33:38 lcuk: see you friday then Sep 15 11:33:52 yer hrw :) lookin forward to it Sep 15 11:35:15 * lcuk wonders if he will get any sleep before then Sep 15 11:38:09 * JamieBennett wonders if he will get any sleep when he is there Sep 15 11:38:49 ill have no problem sleeping after the pres, but its prep that im havin trouble with Sep 15 11:39:11 anyway, back later Sep 15 11:39:38 Anyone ever moved there sidebar with the icons to the right side of there tablet? I need to know how to move it back Sep 15 11:41:17 GAN: Back. If you want to discuss the layout, show me an example of a page you want to redesign and what the requirements are Sep 15 11:41:53 andrewfblack, you can do that with the rotation xserver Sep 15 11:41:59 I've never been able to make it happen here, though. Sep 15 11:42:11 RST38h, OK, let's start with the front page. Sep 15 11:42:22 The biggest issue is that it'll fit on the tablet screen in a usable way. Sep 15 11:42:44 First thing that has to go is the width Sep 15 11:42:47 It's gotta be fluid. Sep 15 11:46:23 GeneralAntilles yeah I've been playing with Rotate this week and I find it only useful for viewing some web pages since the UI looks really bad and menu is unusable but now in regular view my sidebar is on right side and not left have no idea how to get it back I will have to try and rotate it over and over maybe it will come back right Sep 15 11:49:18 Good day! Sep 15 11:49:27 GAN: wiki.maemo.org? Sep 15 11:49:49 http://maemo.org Sep 15 11:49:53 ok Sep 15 11:50:15 GAN: Plain HTMl ok? Sep 15 11:50:27 I'm fine with whatever's convenient. Sep 15 11:59:15 maemo summit will be a bit hardcore Sep 15 11:59:37 if I want to be at opening keynote I would have to wakeup before 5:00 Sep 15 11:59:37 indeed Sep 15 11:59:56 even without travel Sep 15 12:00:17 florian: I plan to travel on friday morning and saturday evening Sep 15 12:00:33 so after 5am from home and back after 23 Sep 15 12:01:12 hrw: oh that sounds evil... Sep 15 12:02:32 florian: @txl on 9:00 10:00 11:45.. Sep 15 12:03:34 if I will be there @9:00 then I should be at keynote as they arrive before 9.. Sep 15 12:06:30 GAN: http://fms.komkon.org/MaemoMain.html Sep 15 12:06:39 GAN: This is heading only, no styles applied yet Sep 15 12:06:46 GAN: Should look perfectly fine on the tablet too Sep 15 12:07:12 Will even look decent on a cell phone, as long as you have got a decent browser Sep 15 12:07:38 * hrw -> lunch Sep 15 12:08:09 RST38h: TABLES??????? Sep 15 12:08:23 Mockup Sep 15 12:09:02 hrw: Multiple question marks, really? Sep 15 12:10:25 Fatal, that's usually _my_ reaction to table usage in styling these days. ;) Sep 15 12:11:47 GeneralAntilles: mine aswell, but I react worse to repeated punctuations :) Sep 15 12:12:04 Meh, this is IRC, not the New Yorker. Sep 15 12:12:35 Whatever helps get across that all that extra information you normally miss in text-only communication. Sep 15 12:13:03 GeneralAntilles: normal words tends to get it across better than putting on an asshat suit :) Sep 15 12:13:44 * GeneralAntilles always figured the punctuation nazi for an asshat-suit. :P Sep 15 12:14:15 If I was a punctuation nazi, I'd probably not use smileys as punctuation :) Sep 15 12:15:08 Nazis don't have to use things "right" themselves, they just have to want to impose their own view of "right" on others. ;) Sep 15 12:15:23 haha, true true Sep 15 12:16:03 Anyway, we're probably more in agreement here than not, so there's no point arguing over it. ;) Sep 15 12:16:08 we'll agree to disagree, I frown on "yelling" (uppercase+multiples of ? or !) while you find it acceptable to get a point through Sep 15 12:16:17 true Sep 15 12:17:12 Hi, is there some kind of problem in running qmake (in Qt-project) inside scratchbox's ARM -target? Sep 15 12:17:14 Could Google docs be any slower in picking up this image? . . . Sep 15 12:17:33 (and yes, the use of asshat was excessive and NOT directed against hrw (or anyone else in the channel)) Sep 15 12:17:37 Sep 15 12:18:00 herwood: there shouldn't be (well not big problems at least :P ) Sep 15 12:18:05 hrw: Tables work Sep 15 12:18:23 hrw: CSS does not always work though. Hence tables. Sep 15 12:18:29 Floggings work, too. Sep 15 12:18:34 That don't make 'em right. :D Sep 15 12:18:35 tables *and* caps html tags Sep 15 12:18:49 GAN: Did I mention I am all for flogging a few responsible people? Sep 15 12:18:53 and no doctype :) Sep 15 12:19:20 Mek: In my scratchbox (newest Diablo version) qmake always crashes to segmentation fault, no matter where I run it Sep 15 12:19:25 even with no parameters Sep 15 12:19:45 Have you heard or seen something like that before Sep 15 12:19:46 herwood: ah, you need to use the cvs-m version of qemu Sep 15 12:19:55 (or newer) Sep 15 12:20:22 Mek: thanks very much! Sep 15 12:20:29 Mek: Where can I find it? Sep 15 12:20:45 herwood: it shold already be installed, you just need to change your configuration to use it Sep 15 12:21:01 Mek: How can I do that? Sep 15 12:21:14 (in /scratchbox/users/USER/targets/TARGETNAME.conf change the cpu transparency method line thing) Sep 15 12:21:36 GAN: Well, between making things "right" and making them work, I always go for the second choice Sep 15 12:21:59 GAN: But, of course, once "right" thing start working, you are welcome to put them in place =) Sep 15 12:24:15 It's impossible to line up images in Google Docs Sep 15 12:26:47 Mek: Yeah, it works now! Thanks alot, you've saved my day! Sep 15 12:28:56 or use normal crosscompilation instead of sbox Sep 15 12:30:13 I don't think 'normal' crosscompilation will be very easy with qmake... Sep 15 12:30:43 really? Sep 15 12:30:53 Why is it hard? Sep 15 12:30:57 then why it works in OpenEmbedded? Sep 15 12:31:17 it is just a matter of having qmake for host and proper configuration Sep 15 12:31:22 Actually, if you do not install Etch toolchain (at least in SB2), you are using cross compilation Sep 15 12:32:09 hrw: there are quite some patches in openembedded to make it work... Sep 15 12:34:14 Mek: done once, works everytime Sep 15 12:35:22 hrw: sure, but still far from trivial (and it won't help with qmake based projects that have configuration checks that depend on executing stuff) Sep 15 12:35:55 any buildsystem can be done good or bad Sep 15 12:36:02 I just saw too many bad ones Sep 15 12:47:20 anyone here used BasiliskII on OS2007? Sep 15 12:47:40 gotta love listening streaming music on your n810 over your work's wifi network Sep 15 12:47:43 i know to use uniquie311's builds Sep 15 12:48:19 but i get an error when i start it, something about SIGSRV Sep 15 12:48:29 and then it sits there for a bit Sep 15 12:48:32 then reboots Sep 15 12:48:54 i thought about installing some sdl libs, but that didn't seem to help Sep 15 13:09:48 hola Sep 15 13:49:23 GAN: here? Sep 15 13:49:40 Yeah Sep 15 13:49:51 GAN: Check http://fms.komkon.org/MaemoMain.html again Sep 15 13:50:32 Looks good. Sep 15 13:50:39 GAN: "Status Information" may be replaced by a few other important stats Sep 15 13:50:45 * johnx claps for variable width Sep 15 13:50:50 GAN: Pearl's screenshot can be placed at the right Sep 15 13:50:56 johnx: thanks Sep 15 13:51:01 * RST38h tried his best =) Sep 15 13:51:15 Yeah, variable width will be really nice to have Sep 15 13:51:26 that's tables for you ;) Sep 15 13:51:41 I'll be able to read maemo.org on my zaurus even :) Sep 15 13:51:42 The best cursed HTML feature Sep 15 13:51:43 Meh, CSS does the same. Sep 15 13:51:44 RST38h that looks cool what is it? Sep 15 13:51:56 GAN: it does, when it works =( Sep 15 13:51:58 CSS does variable width even better, in fact. Sep 15 13:52:14 http://liqbase.garage.maemo.org/working/ Sep 15 13:52:22 GAN: There are few places (like input fields) where CSS is the only way to do war width Sep 15 13:52:25 Play with the text size on that, too. ;) Sep 15 13:52:37 s/war/var/ Sep 15 13:52:38 RST38h meant: GAN: There are few places (like input fields) where CSS is the only way to do var width Sep 15 13:53:19 GAN: but still not recommended if you are targeting any dumb browser out there. Sep 15 13:53:47 I am taking the font from liqbase? Sep 15 13:53:56 Or should I go for standard Arial to be safe? Sep 15 13:54:13 Go with whatever you want Sep 15 13:54:19 I'm sure the finer style stuff will change Sep 15 13:57:05 fint changed Sep 15 13:57:16 s/fint/font/ Sep 15 13:57:18 RST38h meant: font changed Sep 15 14:02:52 General, you need more content on the screenshots page, otherwise it will break Sep 15 14:03:43 Screenshots page? Sep 15 14:03:56 Oh, the liqbase site Sep 15 14:03:59 It's all filler Sep 15 14:04:03 I'm waiting on content from lcuk. Sep 15 14:04:24 I can just set a min-height to fix that, though. Sep 15 14:04:28 Thanks for noticing. Sep 15 14:06:15 do video calls work with skype? Sep 15 14:06:21 No Sep 15 14:06:22 i do not believe so Sep 15 14:06:36 there is possible support in the future but as of this moment no Sep 15 14:08:10 I see Sep 15 14:08:30 is there any messaging app that support video besides amsn? Sep 15 14:08:36 i think gtalk does Sep 15 14:08:39 but im not sure Sep 15 14:08:43 i get my n810 next week Sep 15 14:08:56 rtcomm Sep 15 14:09:18 what clients does rtcomm support? Sep 15 14:09:25 I'll place my bet with with "we won't see it on current tablets ever" Sep 15 14:09:30 gizmo5, right? Sep 15 14:09:48 Yeah, Gizmo5, too. Sep 15 14:09:59 Jaredu, GTalk tablet-to-tablet Sep 15 14:10:14 I'm not talking about tablet-to-tablet Sep 15 14:10:30 yeah Sep 15 14:10:36 tablet-to-tablet I guess that video SIP is also supported Sep 15 14:10:48 hm Sep 15 14:10:50 I'm talking about tablet-to-desktop Sep 15 14:10:54 right Sep 15 14:11:03 so that leaves us with amsn only? Sep 15 14:11:15 Gizmo5 Sep 15 14:11:16 aMSN Sep 15 14:11:33 both are tablet-desktop yes? Sep 15 14:11:37 free? :) Sep 15 14:11:49 ahh missed, gizmo5, that's what I also have by default with the tablet or is this some other kind of gizmo version? Sep 15 14:12:10 Jaredu: amsn has a tablet version as I've seen in some forums on ITT Sep 15 14:12:19 ive heard of it Sep 15 14:12:31 i was thinking gizmo5 was a pay for service of some sort though Sep 15 14:13:54 Jaredu: only when calling real phones Sep 15 14:13:59 gizmo is just sip Sep 15 14:14:00 . . . ^ Sep 15 14:17:10 inz, min-height fixed it. Sep 15 14:17:11 Thanks! Sep 15 14:19:03 Jaredu did pidgin crash? Sep 15 14:23:41 well I best be off, tata Sep 15 14:23:42 hey what's best way to get term on freshly-flashed n810? Sep 15 14:24:04 bstock: scroll down in the utilities menu ;) Sep 15 14:24:06 Open up Xterminal from utilities Sep 15 14:24:07 bstock: find it in Utils menu Sep 15 14:24:11 See? Sep 15 14:24:12 OS2008 includes an x terminal Sep 15 14:24:21 When wise men agree. . . . Sep 15 14:24:47 :) Sep 15 14:24:54 Hi! How do you edit your own entries in maemo.org Downloads ? Sep 15 14:25:11 piguet, login, click "Page" on the little floating gray toolbar. Sep 15 14:27:41 GeneralAntilles: hem, and then? Sorry to sound dumb, but I already tried Edit metadata and Show revision history... Sep 15 14:28:03 Hrm Sep 15 14:28:13 Let me check my entry real quick. Sep 15 14:28:20 * GeneralAntilles waits for Downloads to load. Sep 15 14:28:49 piguet: How about: Page -> Edit? :) Sep 15 14:29:00 ^ Or that guy can help you Sep 15 14:29:12 I don't have Edit Sep 15 14:29:37 piguet: What application? Sep 15 14:29:45 and I'm logged... but I hadn't a .install URL when I first submitted it Sep 15 14:29:46 Hike Sep 15 14:30:07 ...so maybe it wasn't approved and I have no right on it Sep 15 14:30:22 Was it created automatically from the Extras entry? Sep 15 14:30:31 No, I've given up with Extras Sep 15 14:30:39 oh nice, it comes with term app now? Sep 15 14:30:48 bstock, since November last year. Sep 15 14:30:54 piguet, what application? Sep 15 14:30:56 piguet: https://maemo.org/downloads/product/edit/e14cc1da6a4611dd9390a9c54c9633bc33bc.html ? Sep 15 14:30:57 Oh Sep 15 14:30:59 * GeneralAntilles learns to read. Sep 15 14:31:04 I have my own rep at http://nyctergatis.com/hike Sep 15 14:31:13 really..? i flashed one not that long ago and didn't find one.. guess i overlooked then Sep 15 14:31:18 (follow the install link) Sep 15 14:31:23 piguet, don't expect much good will putting up your own repository. :) Sep 15 14:31:36 oh wait, i need to get root, not just term Sep 15 14:31:39 that's what i had to do Sep 15 14:31:47 ~root-access Sep 15 14:31:48 root-access is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access Sep 15 14:31:55 Grab rootsh from Extras. Sep 15 14:32:02 isn't "Downloads" supposed to work with other reps? Sep 15 14:32:09 It does. Sep 15 14:32:24 eek Sep 15 14:32:27 aren't .install supposed to be for non-maemo repositories? Sep 15 14:32:32 * GeneralAntilles can, apparently, also, edit that entry. Sep 15 14:32:39 X-Fade, did you change my permissions? :P Sep 15 14:32:49 piguet, no, .installs are to make installing applications easier. Sep 15 14:32:51 GeneralAntilles: Everybody can edit everything. Sep 15 14:32:52 From any repository. Sep 15 14:32:54 Oh? Sep 15 14:32:54 GeneralAntilles: you mean *you* can edit my entry? Sep 15 14:32:58 It is a wiki ;) Sep 15 14:33:05 The Downloads entry? Sep 15 14:33:10 Yep. Sep 15 14:33:11 yes Sep 15 14:33:16 Really? Sep 15 14:33:18 Huh Sep 15 14:33:43 let me check that again... Sep 15 14:34:40 are you supposed to have editing rights when you're logged in? Sep 15 14:35:35 * rm_you is leavin', on a jet plane. Doesn't know when he'll be back again. Sep 15 14:35:53 You're going to get hijacked and diverted to Cuba. Sep 15 14:36:06 me? why? :-) Sep 15 14:36:16 This object was locked by Ryan Abel. Lock will expire on 15.09.2008 19:31:02. Sep 15 14:36:43 yes, editing hike works ;) Sep 15 14:38:19 somebody should tell prism guy that he can edit entries in downloads Sep 15 14:38:21 is the gps expected to be 10-30 mtinutes to get fix? and to need 6-7 sattelites ? Sep 15 14:38:49 More than 6 for a decent fix. Sep 15 14:39:01 there is four prism entries at downloads Sep 15 14:39:24 GeneralAntilles: isn't that ... many ? Sep 15 14:39:44 where is the Edit button??? I get this: http://nyctergatis.com/hike/hike-downloads.png Sep 15 14:39:49 ok. see ya'll like... tomorrow Sep 15 14:39:49 You'll usually be able to see about 9-12 in a good situation Sep 15 14:40:08 If you're seeing a lot less than that, then the signal probably isn't very good, either. Sep 15 14:40:18 Which, with the N810's GPS, makes things particularly bad Sep 15 14:40:25 Have you installed AGPS? Sep 15 14:40:52 the AGPS UI could be better :) Sep 15 14:41:06 Sure, but it does help. Sep 15 14:41:12 GeneralAntilles: I have installed the AGPS beta application, yes. But I don't know how I use it :/ Sep 15 14:43:02 the temperature sensor in the n810 is one in the screen right? it says 37C in omweather now :) Sep 15 14:43:33 The one near the screen on the N810 is a light sensor iirc Sep 15 14:43:44 no, talking about temperature Sep 15 14:43:48 aquatix: It is in the touchscreen yes. Sep 15 14:43:58 omweather applet can read it and show the info Sep 15 14:44:04 X-Fade: thanks Sep 15 14:44:12 aquatix: Or at least part of the touchscreen related hardware. Sep 15 14:44:16 * aquatix has a comfortably warm tablet ;) Sep 15 14:44:19 I've just checked with Firefox in case there is a Safari incompatibility. Same problem. Sep 15 14:44:50 X-Fade: charging and streaming 160kbit audio over a low-quality wifi link Sep 15 14:45:12 mikkov_: have you got the same menu as me in http://nyctergatis.com/hike/hike-downloads.png ? Sep 15 14:45:17 aquatix: Yeah, I have that with vagalume too. Sep 15 14:45:53 X-Fade: hey, i didn't realise vagalume was ported too Sep 15 14:45:55 * aquatix installs Sep 15 14:46:05 aquatix: Ported? Sep 15 14:46:21 X-Fade: well, maemo version Sep 15 14:46:22 aquatix: Made for :) Sep 15 14:46:30 oh, meh :) Sep 15 14:46:48 d'oh, that's the first sentence on its site Sep 15 14:47:02 It is in Extras. Sep 15 14:47:11 * aquatix doesn't use last.fm clients that much Sep 15 14:47:17 i generally only scrobble Sep 15 14:47:22 X-Fade: k, thanks Sep 15 14:47:25 * aquatix installs Sep 15 14:47:34 I need to try and put some of my themes in extras sometimes Sep 15 14:48:16 andrewfblack: you should :) Sep 15 14:48:20 not enough themes Sep 15 14:48:22 andrewfblack: You can try it out in extras-devel.. Sep 15 14:48:28 * aquatix is considering doing one himself Sep 15 14:50:48 piguet: you are in the wrong page. go here https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/hike/ Sep 15 14:51:51 mikkov_: thanks a lot, that looks much better! Sep 15 14:52:33 The page is locked now, but I guess I have just to wait a little bit Sep 15 14:57:51 Or ask GeneralAntilles to leave the page ;) Sep 15 14:57:59 I'm not there. . . . Sep 15 14:58:18 GeneralAntilles: You need to edit it and hit cancel. Sep 15 14:58:23 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Sep 15 14:58:38 Or poor piguet needs to wait 2 hours :) Sep 15 14:58:45 Wouldn't an edit conflict be easier? Sep 15 14:58:51 ala mediawiki Sep 15 14:59:10 or mid-air collision Sep 15 14:59:24 Well, things like bugzilla is lame. Sep 15 14:59:46 isn't there a guide to tell you how to put your files into extras and extra-dlevel somewhere Sep 15 14:59:48 At least it doesn't lock people out when somebody looks at an edit page and doesn't do anything. Sep 15 14:59:53 ~upload-extras Sep 15 14:59:54 hmm... upload-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Sep 15 15:00:10 thanks Sep 15 15:00:50 andrewfblack: If something is not clear, please let me know. So I can update it.. Sep 15 15:00:56 Source packages seems too complicated for me at this stage Sep 15 15:01:30 Although I will leave for berlin tomorrow ;) Sep 15 15:01:30 X-Fade I'll let you know Sep 15 15:01:32 I have just a makefile which builds the .deb binary package without deb tools Sep 15 15:01:49 Lock should be expiring momentarily. . . . Sep 15 15:02:03 it integrates better with my workflow Sep 15 15:02:24 piguet: I bet you don't use autotools either ;) Sep 15 15:02:38 GAN: Check the page again Sep 15 15:02:43 X-Fade: see you've won! Sep 15 15:03:06 See http://nyctergatis.com/maemopkg/index.html Sep 15 15:03:15 piguet: Looking at http://nyctergatis.com/maemopkg/index.html, it shouldn't be hard work to put in an install section and a debian folder Sep 15 15:03:22 piguet: Hehe, classic 'lazy packager' type ;) Sep 15 15:03:34 I guess so... Sep 15 15:04:03 is the server upgrade going to be ready this week? Sep 15 15:04:13 piguet: Doesn't matter that much. You will probably do it properly on day :) Sep 15 15:04:37 mikkov_: That depends on performance tests. Sep 15 15:04:51 qwerty12: maybe not hard, but not my top priority now that deb packaging and distribution are ok Sep 15 15:05:23 RST38h, looks good Sep 15 15:05:41 The more prominent application features is probably good for users. Sep 15 15:10:16 andrewfblack: Invitation is on the mail. Sep 15 15:11:09 X-Fade thanks Sep 15 15:18:12 I've uploaded the script I use now at http://nyctergatis.com/maemopkg/ . I also build Packages.gz with another custom script which I run on a Mac, without Debian utilities. Sep 15 15:21:03 piguet: i'd personally use dpkg-deb maybe.. the problem with this way is that it's not a way to include stuff into extras :/ Sep 15 15:21:29 Yes, I've noticed that :-( Sep 15 15:21:48 if you want to make something really nice, make a mini-dpkg-buildpackage or something Sep 15 15:21:57 that doesn't need a shitload of dependancies Sep 15 15:22:07 Or check out what pypackager does. Sep 15 15:22:07 or a simple dh_make Sep 15 15:22:36 I'll have a look during my next holydays... Sep 15 15:22:44 * Stskeeps will be either needing a minimal dpkg-buildpackage or using dpkg-deb for deblet :P Sep 15 15:23:03 piguet: Advantage of source packages is, that we can automatically make it available in new releases etc. Sep 15 15:23:30 And recompile when some dependencies need changes. Sep 15 15:32:10 is there no chess, for maemo? Sep 15 15:32:29 Uh, it's bundled. . . . Sep 15 15:32:39 ~curse nvram Sep 15 15:32:39 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nvram ! Sep 15 15:32:56 Sargun_Screen: Like GeneralAntilles says but I think there is a dodgy compile of scud/scid (something like that) too Sep 15 15:33:07 id guess reincarnating as a windows vista admin would be worse Sep 15 15:33:34 qwerty12, nvram? is this on a router or something? Sep 15 15:33:37 jaska: vista can be administered? Sep 15 15:33:42 not sure Sep 15 15:33:47 jaska: yeah, I remember my "Administrator" account not actually being a admin account unless I disabled UAC or unlocked real admin. I thought fuck it and reinstalled xp Sep 15 15:33:51 it can be installed.. and reinstalled Sep 15 15:34:10 johnx: yeah, I'm doing some router programming, currently working on a cgi to let me enable snmp from web interface Sep 15 15:36:18 (atm, I have a specified config file for snmp that can only be changed if I regenerate the image for the router and snmp starts up automatically and the only way to stop that is to ssh in and killall snmpd or regenerate the image and remove the snmpd line from the rcS (not a nice solution) so I'm getting it to read if it should start from the nvram instead) Sep 15 15:51:56 you know I keep seeing so many fake Cell phone nock offs I almost want to buy one Sep 15 15:52:14 nokla ftw Sep 15 15:52:17 I mean if I'm going ot own an Iphone it might as well run WM6 Sep 15 15:53:06 My friend is actually excited about receiving a nokla N95. :/ Sep 15 15:53:41 the n96 is prettyy cool Sep 15 15:53:59 my question is is it a real thing or do they just steal your money and run Sep 15 15:55:10 andrewfblack: ask them? Sep 15 15:55:14 It's "real" in the sense that it functions but excepting interface and design knockoffs, it is not the original product. Sep 15 15:55:54 * qwerty12 learned not to trust clones after looking at sat boxes... Sep 15 15:56:53 qwerty12 yeah I know its not the real thing but I just figured it was a photoshop image they made you send them the money and you get nothing. Hey atleast your getting a knock off Sep 15 15:57:38 My favourite knock off is : http://www.totalmania.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/dio-and-gomez.jpg Sep 15 15:57:39 I would pay $125 for a phone that looks like an Iphone that runs WM6 just to convince my friends that its the new iphone protoype lol Sep 15 15:58:03 lolz at least the iphone has some form of bsd, wm6 can burn :P Sep 15 15:58:31 qwerty12: not just some form of BSD, iphone was running apache by July 2007 Sep 15 15:58:37 can you say worst keyboard ever http://solomobi.com/viewproduct.asp?pro_id=1370 Sep 15 15:58:42 qwerty12: and had a full BSD subsystem Sep 15 15:58:47 qwerty12: nowdays, it runs X11 too :D Sep 15 15:59:16 qwerty12: I was SSHing into my S.O.'s iphone within one week of having purchased it last summer Sep 15 15:59:24 nemo: ha, that's pretty cool :). Although apache doesn't make me excited as Nokia already ported it to S60 a long time before the iphone :) Sep 15 15:59:31 qwerty12: well, point is how easy it was Sep 15 15:59:41 qwerty12: 3rd party community basically just rebuilt it for iphone ARM arch Sep 15 15:59:47 Woo, and 770 did it in 2005! Sep 15 15:59:53 qwerty12: all the BSD APIs were already there Sep 15 15:59:56 andrewfblack: heh, ewww. (took a while to load, so thought you meant the keypad first, speaking of which, have you seen siemens old sx1?) Sep 15 16:00:32 qwerty12: that being said, much more excited about the Nokia N8x0/N9x0 since they seem to be less of control freaks about those models than apple is Sep 15 16:00:47 qwerty12: although Nokia can be control-freakish about their phones, no question. Sep 15 16:01:05 nemo: for sure, symbian signing pissed me off for a long time >.< Sep 15 16:01:42 and of course, symbian is a PoS in general Sep 15 16:02:03 * qwerty12 is quite fond of Symbian, I <3 the range of apps on it Sep 15 16:02:06 DOS wannabe more convoluted than the MFC Sep 15 16:02:14 qwerty12: Symbian is sheer coder hell Sep 15 16:02:21 Fatal nope never seen it Sep 15 16:02:26 the range of apps is a testament to the lack of options out there and coder perserverance Sep 15 16:02:53 nemo: Can't really comment on it, never tried coding on it (then again, I'm not really much of a coder on any platform) Sep 15 16:03:04 * nemo ♥ the iphone far more than symbian Sep 15 16:03:11 iphone is a joy to code for, comparatively Sep 15 16:03:26 even though Symbian is C++ and I've had to learn objc for the iphone Sep 15 16:03:26 Ok I have found the best cell phone ever http://www.solomobi.com/viewproduct.asp?pro_id=1192 Sep 15 16:03:50 ok. since I'm typing away in here - anyone have any news on the Nokia N9x0 ? Sep 15 16:08:24 jolouis has made a cool otg swivel adapter for the N800 Sep 15 16:08:39 nemo, no one outside nokia knows anything, no one inside nokia can say anything Sep 15 16:09:29 qwerty12 i thought GOD made the best OTG swiver adapter for any handheld device - doesnt the wrist have about 60 bones in it to facilitate many swivellable actions? Sep 15 16:09:42 * lcuk demonstrates Sep 15 16:09:44 .|.. Sep 15 16:09:45 nemo, give it about 3 days. Sep 15 16:09:46 How easy is it to bribe Finns? Sep 15 16:10:07 qwerty12, with the Summit coming up, what'd be the point? Sep 15 16:10:28 qwerty12, not very http://chickencrap.com/images/1472.jpg Sep 15 16:10:28 By the way, the first (proposed) community council issue is on -community if anybody's interested. Sep 15 16:10:45 GeneralAntilles: I get to know 72 hours before? :P Sep 15 16:10:54 lcuk: lol Sep 15 16:11:55 why bribe finns? Sep 15 16:15:27 jaska, a better question, why not bribe Finns? Sep 15 16:16:37 They clearly have things we want. :P Sep 15 16:30:54 Somebody should do a demo with VGB and a Wiimote for the Summit. Sep 15 16:54:58 Man, konttori needs to push Wiicontrol to Extras-devel. Sep 15 16:56:04 usbcontrol could do with it being in diablo extras[-devel] too :/ Sep 15 16:56:28 I think UKMP is in non-free Sep 15 16:56:38 Somebody might need to help him with packaging it up for the autobuilder. Sep 15 16:56:44 I bet he wouldn't mind if they did. Sep 15 17:15:37 X-Fade, ping. Sep 15 17:18:05 GeneralAntilles, are you a photoshop wiz? Sep 15 17:18:14 lcuk, I'm OK with it. Sep 15 17:18:19 better with some thing than others. Sep 15 17:19:03 im trying to make a png with a single color but rounded edges - the edges need to be transparent and its doin my nut Sep 15 17:19:18 * jott applies a bevel layer style on GeneralAntilles Sep 15 17:19:18 hola Sep 15 17:19:35 lcuk, add an alpha channel. Sep 15 17:20:37 lol jott Sep 15 17:20:49 lcuk: make it really huge and then scale it down to get anti-aliasing on the edges. Sep 15 17:20:52 thx - i tried last night, i shall persever Sep 15 17:20:58 e Sep 15 17:22:21 ahhhahhh - feathered selection gave what i needed Sep 15 17:22:29 i only want a small image and its been a bastard Sep 15 17:23:19 Alphas are a little funky sometimes. Sep 15 17:25:02 hi all Sep 15 17:25:12 it was the sourcde image i was grabbin it from - it was a blended gif with white corners - the alpha grabbing was funky Sep 15 17:27:19 all this just for a test Sep 15 17:30:42 all this just for a test Sep 15 17:30:56 * lcuk will have to stop doing that Sep 15 17:32:13 * qwerty12 smashes lcuk's keyboard. The North being like it is provides me many places to dump it. Sep 15 17:33:15 OI! Sep 15 17:33:16 qwerty12: you have 0ffff source somewhere btw? Sep 15 17:33:22 / mtd-tools Sep 15 17:33:39 Stskeeps: No, but I got the 0xFFFF source from the website using their pvc very easily. Sep 15 17:33:57 pvc? Sep 15 17:34:05 Stskeeps: Look in my tarball of mtd-tools for initfs, the only change I made was adding -static to LDFLAGS and CFLAGS Sep 15 17:34:19 Stskeeps: the 0xFFFF creators own versioning system Sep 15 17:34:24 s/s/ Sep 15 17:35:20 ok - should package it i guess :P Sep 15 17:35:38 I hope you don't plan on uploading to extras :P Sep 15 17:35:53 Oh noez, I used -j option of nandwrite and now my tablet is fucked Sep 15 17:36:25 oh no, just deblet apt repo :P Sep 15 17:36:36 mtd-tools are in debian atleast Sep 15 17:40:05 Stskeeps: I think the only change I made to that 0xFFFF binary was to make the dump feature of 0xFFFF not ask any questions Sep 15 17:44:56 hi, do you know where to find a vnc server for my n810? the only link I find is broken :( Sep 15 17:45:32 http://mike.saunby.googlepages.com/x11vncfornokia7702 Sep 15 17:48:24 rounded rects loaded from a png and stretched to fit look crapper than a crap thing thats just crapped ontop of a sewer Sep 15 17:48:57 was this on a crap sewer as well? Sep 15 17:49:11 yes Sep 15 17:49:18 crap Sep 15 17:49:24 my thoughts exactly Sep 15 17:49:29 * lcuk moves onto planb Sep 15 17:50:02 plan9 for nokia tablets could be interesting. Sep 15 17:50:03 :P Sep 15 17:50:09 indeed it could Sep 15 17:50:41 there are many old style tech paradigms which may very well "work" nicely on the tablets Sep 15 17:50:47 things which were before their time Sep 15 17:54:33 is osso-screenshot-tool available for diablo? Sep 15 17:54:46 in a default install, apt-get doesn't find it. Sep 15 17:56:58 Richard Wright :( Sep 15 17:57:27 dougt, might try this: http://maemo.org/midcom-permalink-8067fcec9d2111dc80601d8b90fe1baa1baa Sep 15 17:57:36 I'm not sure what the status of osso-screenshot-tool is these days. Sep 15 18:05:53 MishaS: hehe :) Sep 15 18:07:27 Damn liar. Sep 15 18:07:30 trenka, indeed :) Sep 15 18:10:18 re Sep 15 18:18:01 * MishaS is now known as MishaS :) Sep 15 18:19:11 * aquatix is now known as MishaS Sep 15 18:19:19 dougt: there is a load applet which also do screenshots Sep 15 18:19:40 * MishaS does not aquatix :D Sep 15 18:19:45 hrw: thanks. i need somethign I can do from the shell. Sep 15 18:19:55 scrot? Sep 15 18:20:07 maybe there's a maemo build of it Sep 15 18:20:09 fbgrab? Sep 15 18:20:23 gpe-scap works also quite well Sep 15 18:20:56 * MishaS had a small tool... but it was long time ago :( Sep 15 18:22:17 gpe-scap also has one-click upload to scap.linuxtogo.org Sep 15 18:23:16 is gpe-scap ported to maemo? Sep 15 18:24:26 yeah, it is in extras-devel Sep 15 18:24:39 (I uploaded it there...) Sep 15 18:24:50 is it normal to have o a diablo system both repos chinook extras and diablo extras enabled? Sep 15 18:25:10 liri: not normal but working Sep 15 18:25:30 and increasingly pointless. Sep 15 18:26:32 well, what's a normal situation? because I know some apps are available in chinook only and some are avail in diablo only so... Sep 15 18:26:50 Diablo Extras for Diablo Sep 15 18:27:03 There are fewer and fewer apps for which that's the case. Sep 15 18:27:21 liri: majority of such applications are "binary only" Sep 15 18:27:22 like maemo mapper... Sep 15 18:27:26 which is pain to build Sep 15 18:27:36 and having free application in binary only way is bad :D Sep 15 18:27:41 * MishaS ducks and runs... Sep 15 18:27:42 Hopefully Gnuite'll be back from his roadtrip soon. Sep 15 18:27:53 MishaS, go abuse konttori about UKMP Sep 15 18:28:07 It's in non-free for some reason. Sep 15 18:28:15 so would you advise on disabling chinook and enabling diablo? Sep 15 18:28:26 liri, you can have them both enabled without much trouble. Sep 15 18:28:34 Diablo has newer stuff than Chinook in a few cases. Sep 15 18:29:09 what does "without much trouble" mean? I don't want to find updates waiting that will cause issues with the tablet Sep 15 18:30:01 Means I don't have any specific examples to give Sep 15 18:30:08 but can't guarantee complete safety. Sep 15 18:30:40 mek: why not promote to extras? :) Sep 15 18:30:48 * MishaS does not have extras-devel enabled :D Sep 15 18:30:49 right, I figured as much :) Sep 15 18:31:04 GeneralAntilles, nah... :) that's too difficult :D Sep 15 18:31:05 alright, another repo I see on my catalog is diablo/tools - is that ok? what's that for? Sep 15 18:31:05 MishaS, there's some tasty stuff in there. ;) Sep 15 18:31:19 MishaS: I don't think I have rights to promote stuff to extras :) Sep 15 18:31:22 GeneralAntilles, like scrummvm? :) Sep 15 18:31:26 liri, yes, that's intended for the tablet. Sep 15 18:31:33 MishaS, like ScummVM. ;) Sep 15 18:31:34 Mek: at the moment everybody who can upload stuff, can promote it :) Sep 15 18:31:37 GeneralAntilles: ok Sep 15 18:31:46 liri, avoid the SDK repo, though. Sep 15 18:32:06 GeneralAntilles, re SDK: any specific bad issues with that? Sep 15 18:32:13 GeneralAntilles: I have a "general" maemo (catalog name: maemo, web address: http://repository.maemo.org, components: free non free) which is disabled... should I enable? Sep 15 18:32:21 an apt-get upgrade with it will land you in a reboot loop. Sep 15 18:32:26 Largely it's the core-utils stuff. Sep 15 18:32:33 MishaS: hmm... yeah... it seems that is true :) Sep 15 18:32:41 GeneralAntilles: so no harm in enabling it Sep 15 18:32:46 If you've got Red Pill enabled in Application manager, it'll offer you an "Operating System" update Sep 15 18:32:50 which lands you in a reboot loop. Sep 15 18:33:01 the general maemo repository? Sep 15 18:33:03 liri, that'd be the Chinook SDK repo. Sep 15 18:33:12 Which can be harmful. Sep 15 18:33:37 whats the best way to take a screenshot on the n810? Sep 15 18:33:39 (diablo) Sep 15 18:33:46 Pavlov, I like VNC Sep 15 18:33:51 Mek: i know, you know... :) Sep 15 18:34:13 * GeneralAntilles has got a little script to take the screenshot, crop it, compress it, upload it to his ftp server and put the URL in the clipboard. Sep 15 18:34:48 GeneralAntilles: the SDK repo is the "general" maemo mapper which I mentioned now? Sep 15 18:35:01 liri, Maemo Mapper is in Extras. Sep 15 18:35:12 repository.maeom.org/extras chinook free non-free Sep 15 18:35:18 s/maeom/maemo/ Sep 15 18:35:18 GeneralAntilles meant: repository.maemo.org/extras chinook free non-free Sep 15 18:35:42 repository.maeom.org/ chinook free non-free is the Chinook SDK repo Sep 15 18:36:09 GeneralAntilles, that's an interesting behaviour... Sep 15 18:36:20 Yeah, there are a lot of fun ways to get yourself into a reboot loop. Sep 15 18:36:22 GeneralAntilles: I didn't have that. I have epository.maeom.org/ free non-free Sep 15 18:36:31 liri, that actually shouldn't exist Sep 15 18:36:34 GeneralAntilles: which is for diablo now I guess Sep 15 18:36:36 GeneralAntilles: I see Sep 15 18:36:37 * MishaS . o O (epository -- that's good :)) Sep 15 18:36:42 Since that equates to repository.maemo.org/ diablo free non-free Sep 15 18:37:35 and the Diablo SDK moved to repository.maemo.org diablo/sdk free non-free Sep 15 18:38:13 MishaS, do you happen to have any sway over the tableteer upgrade repository? Sep 15 18:41:39 hi! Sep 15 18:42:03 I didn't find nmap for os2008 or diablo Sep 15 18:42:21 any hint? Sep 15 18:46:03 looks like /me iz gonna use scapy... Sep 15 18:47:38 GeneralAntilles: so it probably something that stayed from when it was chinook, before the upgrade to diablo Sep 15 18:48:37 Ok, bag packed. No let's hope I didn't forget anything. ;) Sep 15 18:48:57 tablet? ;> Sep 15 18:48:58 last time I visited berlin I had forgotten my toothbrush... :P Sep 15 18:49:28 Mek: Well, hotels should have kits for that. Sep 15 18:49:45 yeah, it wasn't really a problem Sep 15 18:50:29 But tablet and 2 spare batteries, check! Sep 15 18:51:01 Charger? Sep 15 18:52:05 Sure ;) Sep 15 18:58:24 No response for my first community issue proposal? :( Sep 15 18:59:03 I whole-heartedly approve. Sep 15 18:59:09 What was your proposal? Sep 15 18:59:18 Yes, but no time left to answer ;) Sep 15 19:00:03 derf, see maemo-community. Sep 15 19:00:39 GeneralAntilles, not so far :) Sep 15 19:02:22 Somebody really needs to drag the Maemo release team out of its lame hidey-hole. Sep 15 19:04:59 GeneralAntilles: sane and well-written issue Sep 15 19:05:39 GeneralAntilles, it depends how you define that hole :) Sep 15 19:06:34 Unfortunately I think all of my agents got on planes, trains and automobiles before they saw the email Sep 15 19:06:40 Somebody will have to make sure they see it in Berlin. Sep 15 19:07:22 GeneralAntilles: print a printout and a baseball bat Sep 15 19:07:22 MishaS, well, I've never once seen hide nor hair of somebody I can positively identify as being intimately involved in the release process. Sep 15 19:07:22 :P Sep 15 19:07:31 Frozen trout Sep 15 19:07:37 GeneralAntilles, i'm one of those :) Sep 15 19:08:03 GeneralAntilles, however the responsibility is shared... :) Sep 15 19:08:28 MishaS, did you see the email on -community? Sep 15 19:08:40 Mailing lists. Ooh. Sep 15 19:09:01 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2008-September/000908.html Sep 15 19:09:16 sneakret, http://maemo.org/community/mailing-lists.html Sep 15 19:09:19 GeneralAntilles, nah, i'm not subscribed to that list Sep 15 19:09:30 GeneralAntilles, i'll do it now :) Sep 15 19:09:30 Thanks, GA! Sep 15 19:10:02 sneakret, -developers and -community are useful Sep 15 19:10:07 -users is usually just a waste of time Sep 15 19:10:37 s/-users/-noobs/ ? Sep 15 19:10:40 ;) Sep 15 19:10:55 noobs, trolls, and flamebaiters Sep 15 19:11:00 Lovely. Sep 15 19:11:15 It's quality entertainment if you're in that sort of mood Sep 15 19:11:19 Haha. Sep 15 19:11:24 but that sort of mood doesn't come around very often. Sep 15 19:11:30 GeneralAntilles, are urho or marius coming for the summit? Sep 15 19:11:37 MishaS, they should be. Sep 15 19:11:39 There are many places on the net to find such entertainment. Sep 15 19:11:41 :) Sep 15 19:11:42 MishaS: Both. Sep 15 19:12:43 GeneralAntilles, then you know whom to talk to :D Sep 15 19:12:55 Are there any successful commercial maemo apps? Sep 15 19:13:04 They both said they couldn't help with this particular issue. <_< Sep 15 19:13:15 sneakret, Rhapsody or Wayfinder, maybe? Sep 15 19:13:19 Otherwise, not really. Sep 15 19:13:27 GeneralAntilles, really? :) Sep 15 19:13:34 sneakret: Skype too. Sep 15 19:13:35 Ah... yeah, Rhapsody seems like a good model, since it's service-based. Sep 15 19:13:43 Ditto Skype. Sep 15 19:13:54 * MishaS has become very curious... Sep 15 19:14:15 I guess WayFinder may be content-driven too--dunno. Sep 15 19:14:26 er... service/content Sep 15 19:14:35 The service is navigation Sep 15 19:14:37 sneakret: Sure, routing. Sep 15 19:15:18 The function is navigation. The service is probably delivery of up-to-date map data and such. Sep 15 19:15:24 MishaS, at a minimum, osso-software-version-rx*4 needs to be in every upgrade repository. Sep 15 19:15:37 It's too easy to accidentally uninstall Sep 15 19:15:57 GeneralAntilles, how can you (as a user) accidently uninstall it? :) Sep 15 19:16:00 and easy to get yourself into a reboot loop trying to update without it. Sep 15 19:16:09 MishaS, Red Pill or apt Sep 15 19:16:21 If anything at all conflicts with its dependencies Sep 15 19:16:23 it gets removed Sep 15 19:16:36 Which means something as simple as bumping the version on a library Sep 15 19:17:25 bye Sep 15 19:17:33 The one you really don't want to accidentally remove is libconic. Sep 15 19:17:41 and it would make my community troubleshooting job if somebody would be kind enough to upload a very small package to diablo-1. :) Sep 15 19:17:46 It's very hard to apt-get anything when you have no network. Sep 15 19:17:48 libconic suxx Sep 15 19:17:54 (and yes, I've accidentally done that) Sep 15 19:18:13 libconic is one of ugliest parts of maemo Sep 15 19:23:53 GeneralAntilles, i'm not sure that it's for mere mortals... Sep 15 19:24:15 How do you mean? Sep 15 19:24:31 GeneralAntilles, red pill? apt? Sep 15 19:24:50 Is apt not a valid tool? Sep 15 19:24:54 Lots and lots of people use apt. Sep 15 19:24:54 hrw, you might want to provide a constructive feedback at http://bugs.maemo.org Sep 15 19:24:58 Mere mortals, even. Sep 15 19:25:08 Every Debian user knows how to use apt. Sep 15 19:25:08 GeneralAntilles, apt directly is for geeks :D Sep 15 19:25:14 Hardly Sep 15 19:25:21 And plenty of Ubuntu users. Sep 15 19:25:26 DOS is used in the workplace Sep 15 19:25:30 GeneralAntilles, mere mortals use "frontends" -- dselect, synaptic, application manager Sep 15 19:25:35 I was very happy when apt-get worked in maemo. Sep 15 19:25:44 I have never, in my life, met anyone who actually uses dselect. Sep 15 19:25:45 dselect is horrible. Sep 15 19:25:50 MishaS, either way, that's not a valid excuse in this community. Sep 15 19:25:56 derf, nice to meet you :) Sep 15 19:25:58 That was my first exposure to debian, as a long-time slackware user. Sep 15 19:26:11 turned me off for quite a while Sep 15 19:26:22 * MishaS can't grasp synaptics... Sep 15 19:26:27 I used it for about five seconds once. Sep 15 19:26:31 dselect, that is. Sep 15 19:26:34 :) Sep 15 19:26:43 * MishaS is using debian since 96, or something... Sep 15 19:26:54 The keyboard interface in dselect is very non-obvious. Sep 15 19:26:54 * MishaS finds dselect to be _the_ tool Sep 15 19:27:16 * MishaS is a mere mortal :D Sep 15 19:27:32 Mere mortals should not suffer with dselect! ;) Sep 15 19:27:44 sneakret, i'm not suffering at all :D Sep 15 19:28:06 Cool then. :) Sep 15 19:28:17 sneakret, cool for me :D Sep 15 19:28:21 Indeed. Sep 15 19:28:32 <__t> hi, here is t from c-base .. again Sep 15 19:28:49 <__t> I am currently setting up a dedicated machine for the summit Sep 15 19:29:33 <__t> plan is to have a place for storing video/photos/slides/audio Sep 15 19:30:00 Sounds nice. Sep 15 19:30:01 <__t> first I start with a webserver+mediawiki. Sep 15 19:30:12 __t, there's at least one guy there who'll be recording in 720p Sep 15 19:37:19 wish I was coming to summit would be a nice time to play with my HD video recorder Sep 15 19:39:58 <__t1> andrewfblack: what helds you back? Sep 15 19:41:20 re Sep 15 19:51:36 hello **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 15 19:57:33 2008 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 15 20:22:16 2008 Sep 15 20:23:08 summatusmentis: Other than syncing, does it do the basic job of managing tasks/events, and alarming me of them in advance well? Sep 15 20:25:01 Is it available in the chinook repos? Sep 15 20:25:12 The .install file on maemo.org seems to point to an invalid installer file Sep 15 20:26:30 I don't know if it's available in chinook, and I don't know about alarms. I'm sort of faking my way through gcal->palm cal until mcalendar works better Sep 15 20:27:45 dmsuperman: looks like it'll do alarms, but it doesn't seem to sync alarm settings from Google Sep 15 20:28:01 palm cal? Sep 15 20:28:36 yeah, on my Palm Centro, Palm OS Calendar Sep 15 20:28:50 Oh :( Sep 15 20:29:49 yeah, I have yet to find a perfect Google Calendar syncing solution Sep 15 20:30:27 That's not even high on the list of priorities Sep 15 20:30:33 I just want a calendar that works :( Sep 15 20:31:02 Google calendar works :) Sep 15 20:31:29 it'll even send you a text message as a reminder Sep 15 20:31:57 I don't do text messages Sep 15 20:32:06 Google calendar also requires internet to use Sep 15 20:32:22 I need alerts and something that works without internet, otherwise google calendar would work perfectly Sep 15 20:56:05 General: Still here? Sep 15 20:58:20 Yeah Sep 15 20:59:25 I'd dump the development Sep 15 20:59:32 Clutters things up a little too much Sep 15 21:04:02 General: Check it out again http://fms.komkon.org/MaemoMain.html Sep 15 21:04:18 Development has to go somewhere though Sep 15 21:04:39 I dropped all the rest (from the small menu), but dunno where to put the development Sep 15 21:05:24 Oh, wait, do you mean the LARGE title??? Sep 15 21:06:04 I don't think the development stuff needs to be on the front page. Sep 15 21:07:22 General: If you mean the top menu item, I would rather have it stay (but hide ALL the development stuff under it) Sep 15 21:08:08 General: If you mean large section names - do not worry about them, each section will go to the separate page at the end. They are on the same page for my convinience designing them only Sep 15 21:08:23 No, all the junk below downloads Sep 15 21:08:31 Ah Sep 15 21:08:57 Wiki and Bugzilla should be in the top-level navbar Sep 15 21:09:29 General: I would push them under development though Sep 15 21:09:35 they are project names by themselves Sep 15 21:18:37 on the other hand... Sep 15 21:20:49 General: Bugzilla added. No idea how to call Wiki in plain non-geek english though Sep 15 21:21:49 8 ton tank of liquid oxygen overturned tonight. Too bad there are no photos =( Sep 15 21:21:56 Wiki Sep 15 21:22:01 Everybody knows what a wiki is. Sep 15 21:22:07 not really :) Sep 15 21:22:15 Yes they do Sep 15 21:22:23 my wife does not Sep 15 21:22:28 Wikipedia is the next best thing to Google as far as generic names Sep 15 21:22:30 and she is a programmer Sep 15 21:22:34 Bleh Sep 15 21:23:05 why not add it under documentation? any arguments against it? Sep 15 21:23:15 The wiki is a huge resource Sep 15 21:23:20 Probably the biggest for the site Sep 15 21:23:26 It shouldn't be buried Sep 15 21:23:33 How about using the word Encyclopedia? Sep 15 21:23:37 No Sep 15 21:23:39 Wiki Sep 15 21:23:50 hmmm...I think it is wrong but will add it for now Sep 15 21:24:28 ACTUALLY, General, we still do not have Documentation entry! You are in luck Sep 15 21:25:22 done Sep 15 21:30:54 <__t1> where can I find the new maemo logo as vector file? Sep 15 21:31:07 moin __t1 :) Sep 15 21:31:17 <__t1> hi housie Sep 15 21:31:41 <__t1> I am currently setting up http://maemosummit.ext.c-base.org/index.php/Main_Page Sep 15 21:32:09 Yäy more work! ;o Sep 15 21:32:55 yes the logo IS missing Sep 15 21:36:16 hola Sep 15 21:43:07 General: Community subpage added. I will go sleep. Will look at creating right set of CSS styles tomorrow, then you will have to take over and give this crap to whoever is responsible Sep 15 21:50:59 anyone with a 770 who can tell me what dpkg -l | grep xserver tells them? (and tell me their OS release) Sep 15 22:10:31 * melmoth just made his first audio gps navigation for bicycle test... Sep 15 22:10:34 * melmoth got lost Sep 15 22:19:02 jott: pong ;) Sep 15 22:19:51 Sorry, I was busy mud-wrestling with bugzilla and the database. Forgot to idle here. Again... Sep 15 22:21:16 guenther: hey, no problem. Sep 15 22:22:43 What bot exactly? Sep 15 22:22:44 guenther: so is there a way to get all notifications via bugmail? (not sure which version supports this fully, the script claims that it needs 2.23 upwards) Sep 15 22:22:53 How do other bots handle this? Sep 15 22:23:26 hmm, wait... Sep 15 22:23:47 First of all: This is meant as a life notification whenever a bug changes, right? Sep 15 22:23:57 guenther: yes, basically. Sep 15 22:24:17 You sure you can handle the load interrupting interesting discussions? ;) Sep 15 22:24:34 that's supposed to go to #maemo-bugs :) Sep 15 22:24:41 ah :) Sep 15 22:24:55 Sending email should not be much of a problem. Sep 15 22:25:16 Although I don't know of a definite way OTOH, there are multiple solutions. Sep 15 22:25:35 That is a *dedicated* email account, right? Sep 15 22:25:38 well afaiu bugmail handles most stuff via headers. Sep 15 22:25:40 yes. Sep 15 22:25:54 Watching some "master user" would be one. Sep 15 22:26:19 If everything else fails, I could likely even hack it into the email tamplate. Sep 15 22:26:30 I know we've done that before... ;) Sep 15 22:26:36 * guenther sighs Sep 15 22:26:40 Boy do I know... Sep 15 22:27:11 Now, the downside is *drumroll* we're running 2.22.odd Sep 15 22:27:14 i think it's supposed to go under newchangedmail Sep 15 22:27:27 well 2.22 seems close enough i guess. Sep 15 22:27:40 You said 2.23+? Sep 15 22:27:46 What for? Sep 15 22:28:02 in contrast to 2.20 :) Sep 15 22:28:08 heh Sep 15 22:28:13 and i guess we can fix things on either side. Sep 15 22:28:14 Well, there may have been changes... Sep 15 22:28:26 Yes, maybe. Sep 15 22:28:27 newchangedmail seems to be one of the magic keywords :) Sep 15 22:28:34 If it is some issue with the email. Sep 15 22:28:51 But maybe its just about... exactly, that. ;) Sep 15 22:29:38 If it's just something to easily enable the mail sending, we could hack around it. Sep 15 22:29:51 Any pointer to the docs you're referring to? Sep 15 22:29:57 well it seems the normal mails just get X-Bugzilla-Reason in the header Sep 15 22:30:17 grep for newchangedmail :) Sep 15 22:30:33 it fills the relevant header fields. Sep 15 22:31:17 (X-Bugzilla-Product the first check in the parser script :) Sep 15 22:31:31 get me docs :) Sep 15 22:31:35 What do you need exactly? Sep 15 22:31:52 newchangedmail is the template Sep 15 22:32:01 So which headers do you need? Sep 15 22:32:11 guenther: yeah need to look it up too. hoped you where deeper into it ;) Sep 15 22:32:57 guenther: http://bzr.everythingsolved.com/supybot/Bugzilla/annotate/26?file_id=bugmail.py-20070213185139-h6o213k0ustrsxlg-1 Sep 15 22:32:59 Anyway, I need food. You're not gonna leave soon, right? ;) Sep 15 22:33:01 see at the bottom of the file Sep 15 22:33:52 as i said, i think when sending it with newchangedmail it seems to be ok. so we need to find a way to send just this mail :) Sep 15 22:40:27 Does anybody know of any calendar apps for maemo that A: aren't buggy (gpe-calendar falls under the buggy category), and B: can sync with google calendar? Sep 15 22:46:58 dmsuperman: That'd be nice. Sep 15 22:47:11 I've been looking for the same thing. So far no luck. Sep 15 22:47:18 Darn Sep 15 22:47:21 Yeah. :( Sep 15 22:47:27 but don't let that discourage you! Sep 15 22:47:33 mCalendar seems a bit promising the the google syncing appears to be broken, and it's still a bitch glitchy Sep 15 22:47:43 Maybe someone else will chime in with the answer to all our problems. Sep 15 22:48:00 bitch glitchy... funny think Sep 15 22:48:00 o Sep 15 22:48:03 thinko Sep 15 22:48:57 My situation is further complicated by the fact that I use google calendar through google apps for domains. Sep 15 22:49:18 I use gnome-do on my ubuntu desktop, which has a google calendar plugin Sep 15 22:49:30 I also have evolution feeding me alerts on my desktop Sep 15 22:49:35 All I need now is a way to get my n800 into the mix Sep 15 22:50:10 Write an ical to crontab converter. :) Sep 15 22:51:16 dmsuperman: I assume google calendar brings MicroB to its knees on your n800 too. :) Sep 15 22:51:49 google calendar isn't friendly to small screens, either. Sep 15 22:53:45 It's not too bad Sep 15 22:53:58 But I need something that works when I have no internet Sep 15 22:54:16 Yeah. Sep 15 22:54:17 mCalendar, if all the glitches were fixed, would be absolutely perfect Sep 15 22:54:22 It's designed to be worked with thumbs Sep 15 22:54:47 And does the simplistic tasks of A: interacting with gCal, B: alerting me when I tell it to, and C: allowing me to schedule tasks Sep 15 22:54:50 That's all I need Sep 15 22:55:02 Yep. Sounds good to me! Sep 15 22:55:57 This is probably the most requested app. :) Sep 15 22:58:03 What's wrong with mCalendar? ... and is there a bug database for it? Sep 15 22:58:41 No clue about bug database Sep 15 22:58:57 I just know that google syncing is utterly broken Sep 15 22:59:12 It hardly worked, and the one time it did manage the times and alarms were broken Sep 15 22:59:23 Other than that, the app wins. Simplistic, yet powerful Sep 15 23:00:43 If you use it locally only, do the times and alarms work? Sep 15 23:01:05 (i.e. are the problems all centered around google calendar?) Sep 15 23:01:44 Installing mCalendar.. Sep 15 23:02:31 I need an excuse to debug something for maemo. Sep 15 23:03:56 I sure do get sick of maemo apps that don't properly specify whether fields should be initial caps. Sep 15 23:04:16 I just use a bluetooth keyboard Sep 15 23:04:18 So I don't care :P Sep 15 23:04:26 Also, yes it seemed to work locally Sep 15 23:04:31 However my test was a very limited one Sep 15 23:04:32 Cool. Sep 15 23:04:34 As in: 15 minutes Sep 15 23:04:36 :) Sep 15 23:04:47 I use the n810 keyboard Sep 15 23:06:40 Since I can't rely on the initial caps setting being correct, I tend to press shift when I don't need to (making it so I DO need to). Sep 15 23:06:52 I wonder if it's possible to just turn that off entirely. Sep 15 23:08:22 * guenther 'd interested in that, too Sep 15 23:09:02 It should NEVER be enabled in a password field. Wow. Sep 15 23:09:11 (mCalendar has this problem.) Sep 15 23:09:32 If you type punctuation in your password, the next character is capitalized. Sep 15 23:09:37 Crazy. Sep 15 23:13:37 Hmm... surprisingly, I was able to sync using mCalendar. Sep 15 23:16:42 and the times seem to be correct... Sep 15 23:16:48 So I got bored with 2007HE and I'm reflashing the 770 to 2008HE. Sep 15 23:16:53 Just to see what I'm missing. Sep 15 23:17:08 dmsuperman: Do you have your time zones set correctly on google calendar and your n800? Sep 15 23:17:18 sneakret: Yeah Sep 15 23:17:26 OK. Just checking. Sep 15 23:17:29 Is it plugged in? ;) Sep 15 23:17:53 I have a 770 with a broken screen. I don't suppose there's a cheap source of replacement screens. Sep 15 23:18:54 like cracked or WSOD? Sep 15 23:19:30 I don't actually remember--it's been ages since I even looked at it. I'm pretty sure it's cracked. Sep 15 23:19:53 It's in a box in my garage. :) Sep 15 23:20:05 haha oh wow 2008HE is slow as hell to boot Sep 15 23:20:16 I've replaced screens on PDAs and cameras... Sep 15 23:23:37 oh wow this IS slow. Sep 15 23:23:49 Still booting? :) Sep 15 23:24:06 no, extending virtual mem to card Sep 15 23:25:03 That's always pretty time consuming, isn't it? Sep 15 23:25:14 That's been my experience. Sep 15 23:26:59 Time for me to head home. I'm glad I finally joined this channel. Sep 15 23:27:39 dmsuperman: My initial test of mCalendar was successful. The event times appear to be correct. Sep 15 23:28:12 I agree with your assessment of it, too. Nice and minimal. Sep 15 23:28:34 I'm sure I'll run into problems, at which time I'll get to improve it. Sep 16 00:15:54 man maybe I should just buy up used iPod Touches instead Sep 16 00:16:23 I don't know where to go to learn about developing stuff for Maemo Sep 16 00:22:41 re Sep 16 00:24:26 Alystair: here's info about developing for maemo http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/ Sep 16 00:33:32 ok reverting to 2007, 2008 is too slow and buggy on the 770 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Sep 16 02:05:38 2008 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 16 07:02:31 2008 Sep 16 07:02:46 Stskeeps: the joke is that I really don't need the launcher/osso/whateverthehell loads initially Sep 16 07:03:16 I want this to become a locked down piece of equipment where only one full screen program executes unless you key in a password or reflash it or something Sep 16 07:03:25 Alystair: yeah - i'm just collecting info so it's easier to put alternative OS'es on the 770 Sep 16 07:03:27 hi! Sep 16 07:03:32 cool :) Sep 16 07:03:57 anyone using easy 0.7 in Diablo in a N800? Sep 16 07:04:43 camera module in n800 claims IOError because it can't find jpeg decoder, but in N810 I don't get that error... any idea? Sep 16 07:05:05 Stskeeps: using this dpkg thing I can uninstall any crap I don't think I need on the device? Sep 16 07:05:20 Alystair: yeah, but you may also break things horridly :P Sep 16 07:05:46 I'm not afraid of anything breaking at this point Sep 16 07:05:51 can always reflash Sep 16 07:06:35 * Stskeeps is just waiting for his friend to get his 770 he got on ebay so that person can start hacking on deblet for it Sep 16 07:06:52 you can get your own for dirt cheap Sep 16 07:07:07 hell I might sell mine and buy an ipod touch instead :P Sep 16 07:07:21 well, i paid for this friends one as it would be a motivational thing to get it working ;) Sep 16 07:07:23 then again you can't make a POS on an ipod and expect it to not walk out the door one day. Sep 16 07:07:40 er POS terminal Sep 16 07:11:16 yeah :P Sep 16 07:11:23 most people wouldn't know how to deal with a 770 Sep 16 07:11:56 the 770 would hit all the categories needed if I could actually start to develop on the damn thing Sep 16 07:12:04 none of the demos work for this Canola stuff Sep 16 07:21:01 ok learned some new things that are useless to me via shell, like where background images and sounds are located for default launcher :| Sep 16 07:21:43 is anyone experienced with maemo mapper? this might be more related to google maps url... street maps for my country are only available via the url: maps.google.com/?hl=iw and I was wondering how to get that to work with maemo mapper's url (mt.google.com/mt?....) Sep 16 07:23:43 ah now the systemui.xml file is cool :) Sep 16 07:24:01 Alystair: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/lxde.png <- my tablet at some point :> Sep 16 07:24:20 woah what is this Sep 16 07:24:25 it looks linuxy Sep 16 07:24:30 debian on the tablets Sep 16 07:24:31 heh, interesting Sep 16 07:24:37 lmao are you running multiple screens Sep 16 07:24:38 looks nice, Stskeeps Sep 16 07:25:02 Alystair: no, just running debian on it :P Sep 16 07:25:18 is it actually responsive? Sep 16 07:25:19 (unless you're referring to the virtual desktops) Sep 16 07:25:22 yeah Sep 16 07:25:31 i should really do a video sometime.. Sep 16 07:25:49 Comcast needs to die in a fire. Sep 16 07:26:08 Alystair: but that's what i'm hoping to bring to 770 :P Sep 16 07:27:42 Apparently I'm not allowed to use http anymore. . . . Sep 16 07:27:44 except I don't need any of this amazing magic, I just want to run a single app blah blah blah Sep 16 07:28:03 Alystair: it's a matter of just selecting the right environment, barebones X Sep 16 07:28:11 mhm :) Sep 16 07:28:15 and them build you app on top Sep 16 07:28:28 yay Sep 16 07:28:33 and learn how to code in something beyond javascript :P Sep 16 07:28:38 and php. Sep 16 07:28:43 and neither count :( Sep 16 07:28:44 Alystair: vncviewer exists :P Sep 16 07:29:05 finally in berlin at casa jott Sep 16 07:29:14 rm_you didn't crash into the ocean. Sep 16 07:29:14 even I think that's a really ugly hack though. Sep 16 07:29:28 Alystair: well then it's a matter of a gtkmozembed app.. sec Sep 16 07:29:29 yep! woo Sep 16 07:29:53 the cool thing about doing it via VNC is if the tablet crashes nothing is lost. Sep 16 07:29:55 Alystair: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PythonRecipes/WebBrowser Sep 16 07:30:02 just pick up another one and keep going Sep 16 07:32:25 you know what's real interesting though? The internal sketch pad from 2007HE is a lot smoother on the 770 than the original sketch tool in 2006. Sep 16 07:32:45 maybe there's buffering of input Sep 16 07:35:07 mm Sep 16 07:35:58 I get this: "IOError: decoder jpeg not available" Sep 16 07:36:52 but in N810 it works Sep 16 07:40:09 Stskeeps: this one is cooler http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/lxde-rotated.png Sep 16 07:40:09 :P Sep 16 07:42:50 is "matchbox" the default launcher in 2007HE? Sep 16 07:43:44 looks like it is Sep 16 07:44:30 it's the usual window manager Sep 16 07:46:45 Alystair: btw, there is Google ;) Sep 16 07:47:12 sorry :( Sep 16 07:50:08 Alystair: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPP2BGsY4BM ;) Sep 16 07:51:53 ok google does not answer, what is sapwood? Sep 16 07:52:35 think it's a theme engine thing, not sure Sep 16 07:52:41 works here (hint: "sapwood maemo") Sep 16 07:54:05 I'm such a tool :( Sep 16 07:57:21 hi@all Sep 16 07:57:46 * robink wants lardman to come back. Sep 16 07:57:57 does anyoone know how to get access to the f keys on a nokia 810 in dosbox? Sep 16 07:58:06 f1, f2 etc Sep 16 08:00:34 http://www.skforlee.com/independent_work/lunch_bag.html <- brilliant! Sep 16 08:00:37 Alystair: http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=sapwood+maemo+wiki&btnG=Google+Search Sep 16 08:04:46 haha that's great Stskeeps Sep 16 08:06:06 his double sided jars are also cool Sep 16 08:06:36 My N810 just lost IPv6 support. Sep 16 08:08:07 Can't load ipv6.ko as modprobe can't parse modules.dep Sep 16 08:10:42 use insmod Sep 16 08:11:15 Just did Sep 16 08:11:25 Am I going to have to insmod ipv6.ko every time from now on? Sep 16 08:12:29 how did you get the module loaded before? Sep 16 08:12:43 personally I use this, http://wnd.katei.fi/maemo/install/loadipv6.install Sep 16 08:12:55 it loads the module at system start up Sep 16 08:13:25 Maemo used to load it at startup for me anyway. Sep 16 08:14:41 How do I regenerate modules.dep? Sep 16 08:14:43 for whatever reason it didn't do that for me, not even though I do have autoconfiguration and native ipv6 Sep 16 08:14:45 * wnd shrugs Sep 16 08:15:09 When I tried to upgrade the whole thing, it upgraded the kernel modules but not the kernel; could that be the problem? Sep 16 08:15:15 for what it's worth I get the same error from modprobe Sep 16 08:15:27 hmm Sep 16 08:16:14 also on one of our development devices (that I tried) running older releases Sep 16 08:16:24 How annoying Sep 16 08:18:44 my guess is that that's because /lib/modules simply isn't there Sep 16 08:19:34 After insmodding ipv6.ko, the whole network stack packs it in. Sep 16 08:20:07 and to answer the actual question, normally modules.dep can be created with depmod Sep 16 08:20:52 however since the modules are under /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/ I'm not sure if running depmod is such a good idea Sep 16 08:21:57 wnd: Oh, I was insmodding the module in /lib/modules/2.6.21-omap2 Sep 16 08:24:38 as I said, I don't even have /lib/modules. all the modules I have are in initfs. Sep 16 08:34:17 ok, my jpg decoder problem is a PIL problem... Sep 16 08:34:33 why does it works different in N800 and N810, both with Diablo installed? Sep 16 08:45:55 hmmm remote desktop client dies Sep 16 08:47:19 The program 'rdesktop' received an X Window System error. The error was 'BadAtom (invalid Atom parameter)'. (Details: serial 49 error_code 5 request_code 23 minor_code 0) Sep 16 08:53:59 morning Sep 16 08:54:07 ehlo hrw Sep 16 08:57:04 Alystair: file a bug against rdesktop Sep 16 08:57:15 don't forget to install -dbg packages and run w/ --sync Sep 16 09:02:34 Alystair: there's a better build of rdesktop afaik tthat fixes that problem Sep 16 09:03:02 Moin. Stupid question: Although I have a fine confirmation for my summit registration (got it looong ago) I'm not part of the list here: http://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_summit-001/ Sep 16 09:03:42 Please tell me that this has nothing to do with my registration at all. Sep 16 09:04:54 Actually forget about that and add me to the list of people you know that are unable to write their own name. Thanks for your attention, I'll now return to embarassed lurker-mode again. Sep 16 09:05:44 :) Sep 16 09:06:32 * aquatix pats Blafasel and hands him a cup of coffee Sep 16 09:06:58 * timelyx makes it an espresso Sep 16 09:12:16 Stskeeps: Where do I find it, the one on garage doesn't install on 2007 :| Sep 16 09:12:21 (0.4) Sep 16 09:13:51 whoops 5am, bye. Sep 16 09:27:17 nothing better than when the uni fileserver breaks down and your work machine stalls completely.. Sep 16 09:27:20 :P Sep 16 09:30:53 AFS or NFS? Sep 16 09:31:22 well, samba in this case, but nfs would exhibit same results Sep 16 09:31:22 :P Sep 16 09:33:44 err Sep 16 09:33:50 upgrade to fuse :) Sep 16 09:56:36 hm, does newer kernel-diablo kernels work with chinook? (curious question) Sep 16 09:58:57 Stskeeps: yes Sep 16 09:59:06 brilliant Sep 16 09:59:22 I multiboot chinook/diablo/diablo2/deblet Sep 16 10:15:07 i'm moving deblet closer to being a debian distribution with apt repostories, non-free/contrib/main etc Sep 16 10:15:19 so not so many packages have to be built on tablet Sep 16 10:15:32 http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/ so far Sep 16 10:16:29 timelyx, still probably hard to do anything useful without files :) Sep 16 10:58:57 anyone using pymaemo in n800/diablo? Sep 16 10:59:20 why jpeg encoder is failing in n800 but n810 is working? any idea? Sep 16 11:00:17 back from shopping. i can charge my n800 on euro plugs now :P Sep 16 11:00:47 :) Sep 16 11:00:56 was about the first thing i did when i got my n810 Sep 16 11:01:13 but that was because the US charger didn't fit in my wall outlets ;) Sep 16 11:01:41 anyone else in berlin yet? should be some, according to the wiki arrivals page Sep 16 11:02:01 * aquatix can't attend :( Sep 16 11:02:06 I've not left yet Sep 16 11:02:16 :( Sep 16 11:02:24 i should've asked the boss whether i could make it as business trip ;) Sep 16 11:05:20 I use british charger via eu<>us<>uk adapter Sep 16 11:05:46 adapters are huge Sep 16 11:05:59 I have very small uk->eu ones too Sep 16 11:06:11 for me (living in the netherlands) it was a better option to just buy a dutch version ;) Sep 16 11:06:29 I plan to buy nokia e51 so will get eu charger Sep 16 11:06:51 * aquatix is thinking about the nokia e71 Sep 16 11:06:59 really nice device Sep 16 11:07:03 I would rather get e66 but price ;( Sep 16 11:07:57 rm_you: I'm in Berlin now :) Sep 16 11:10:58 hey ;p kool Sep 16 11:11:33 And the hotel provided me with free wifi, so everything is ok ;) Sep 16 11:11:54 * rm_you is hanging out with jott and about to eat lunch Sep 16 11:12:07 aquatix: E71 is no replacement for E70 :( Sep 16 11:12:12 It is shiny though Sep 16 11:12:18 * X-Fade waiting for his room to become available. Sep 16 11:13:07 That's a new one Sep 16 11:13:09 Request for paid tech support Sep 16 11:13:19 RST38h: hm, e71 has qwerty though Sep 16 11:13:23 oh wait Sep 16 11:14:44 aquatix: it does. Have you tried using that qwerty? ;) Sep 16 11:14:53 not yet Sep 16 11:15:01 but i love the qwerty on my se m600i Sep 16 11:15:08 Do try at some store. You will see how it is *not* E70 Sep 16 11:15:42 I think I saw the Ars Technica editor walk by just now, not sure though ;) Sep 16 11:16:00 RST38h: never tried an E70 either :) Sep 16 11:16:06 X-Fade: ooh :) Sep 16 11:21:37 ok - I have wikipedia loaded in maemo/qemu ;D Sep 16 11:28:23 aquatix: E70 is almost like a real keyboard Sep 16 11:28:47 RST38h: yeah, it's quite large Sep 16 11:28:51 X-Fade: Practice catch&release =) Sep 16 11:29:58 when do i need to be at osim tomorrow? what time is registration? Sep 16 11:30:17 * rm_you fails at finding the wiki page Sep 16 11:30:46 rm_you: osimworld.com should be able to tell you? Sep 16 11:31:09 lol k Sep 16 11:33:04 Hi ! Sep 16 11:37:57 X-Fade: any progress on this https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3549 ? Sep 16 11:39:06 hey Khertan Sep 16 11:39:12 hey liri Sep 16 11:39:14 :) Sep 16 11:41:53 mikkov_: Not at the moment. I'm having a battle with openoffice for my OSiM World presentation ;) Sep 16 11:49:42 X-Fade: better than my battle with google document Sep 16 11:49:43 :) Sep 16 11:50:04 This things is too bad Sep 16 11:51:45 * andrewfblack would be Khertan_n810 best friend if he made a google document sync program Sep 16 11:53:03 Well, at least I have my laptop with me and I don't have to do it on the small screen of my tablet. Sep 16 11:53:29 andrewfblack: brontide work on it Sep 16 12:00:17 is there any documentation about py2deb package? Sep 16 12:01:03 I am using pypackager to build .deb but I would like testing py2deb Sep 16 12:06:49 * timeless sighs Sep 16 12:06:50 http://www.google.com/search?q=libncurces-dev&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Sep 16 12:06:53 * timeless shakes head Sep 16 12:07:40 ouch Sep 16 12:14:55 fatal: Bug 3720 has been added to the database Sep 16 12:15:00 spelling is hard for people in this land Sep 16 12:19:48 Khertan_n810, you ready? Sep 16 12:19:57 oh neat, some thumbnails only work when you're logged in on the site. http://maemo.org/midcom-serveattachmentguid-a18e4aa20d3811ddb592236f6065827d827d/thumbnail_screenshot01.png vs https://maemo.org/midcom-serveattachmentguid-a18e4aa20d3811ddb592236f6065827d827d/thumbnail_screenshot01.png Sep 16 12:20:32 that made me log in... Sep 16 12:20:37 (stripping the "filename" makes the link work even when not logged on) Sep 16 12:21:03 i.e http://maemo.org/midcom-serveattachmentguid-a18e4aa20d3811ddb592236f6065827d827d Sep 16 12:21:20 guess I should dig up whomever to pester about such things Sep 16 12:21:35 Fatal: That is because of a problem with memcached. Will be fixed soon. Sep 16 12:22:33 X-Fade: how long has it been like this? (I kind of recall seemingly random images dropping off the site when going there on my tablet (never thought about it until now though)) Sep 16 12:23:04 https isn't cached, so you don't have that problem. Sep 16 12:23:06 never thought about it as to investigate, the missing images has been like that for atleast a couple of months from my experience Sep 16 12:23:29 x-fade, any ideas for how to embed a video into a presentation? Sep 16 12:23:35 Has been this way for a long time. Memcached has issues at these high loads. Sep 16 12:23:39 or is it simply not possible Sep 16 12:23:44 high loads? Sep 16 12:23:49 X-Fade: but is good to know it's being resolved, thanks Sep 16 12:24:34 X-Fade: I suspect that's the same reason why I randomly don't get to see the "click to install" image? Sep 16 12:25:13 Fatal: Yes. Sep 16 12:25:35 X-Fade: ok good, asking because I couldn't reproduce it at my workstation, thanks Sep 16 12:27:02 Yes, problems like that are pretty random. Sep 16 12:27:55 X-Fade: timeless question was kind of interesting though, how high loads are we talking about? Sep 16 12:28:15 Load > 40? :) Sep 16 12:28:30 how many cpus? Sep 16 12:28:34 * aquatix has seen images not appear on maemo.org for months, also on his pc's Sep 16 12:28:37 X-Fade: whoa Sep 16 12:28:40 1 quadcore. Sep 16 12:28:42 >40, o_O INSANE Sep 16 12:28:48 so that's really >10 Sep 16 12:28:53 hola Sep 16 12:28:53 sorry for caps Sep 16 12:29:12 iirc load is total processes waiting for any cpu per unit time Sep 16 12:29:18 X-Fade: is it going to be multiple servers? Sep 16 12:29:20 if we had a system like that at work, I'd be slapping the admin silly and say "you're doing it wrong" :) Sep 16 12:29:25 timeless: Well, yes. Sep 16 12:29:30 if you have 4 cpus that means you only really have 10 processes waiting for one cpu Sep 16 12:29:43 I guess the server handles a whole more than "just" the website? Sep 16 12:29:51 * timeless hopes not Sep 16 12:30:05 w/ a load of 40, esp if that's a typical load, then it should be dedicated Sep 16 12:30:08 aquatix: Yep, loadblanced. Sep 16 12:30:31 timeless: iirc, it doesn't only do a single website Sep 16 12:31:52 * timeless wonders who uses automake1.5, automake1.6, automaken Sep 16 12:35:13 * GAN800 isn't sure he wants to try his luck with the Comcast connection again. Sep 16 12:37:06 heh Sep 16 12:37:12 i'm trying my luck w/ apt Sep 16 12:37:14 it's not fun Sep 16 12:37:36 feature: apt-get doesn't flush its output which means that it may or may not spit all lines to stdout before it's reaped Sep 16 12:37:45 this makes processing it from anything hard/impossible Sep 16 12:49:21 hrm Sep 16 12:49:38 can someone please load about:plugins on their n8x0 and tell me what version of flash is listed? Sep 16 12:49:45 i want to know if nokia ever fixed that Sep 16 12:49:48 * timeless is assuming it wasn't Sep 16 12:50:49 sure Sep 16 12:52:16 it says Shockwave Flash 9.0 r31 Sep 16 13:08:27 ? Sep 16 13:09:51 . Sep 16 13:48:47 * timeless wonders how frequently andre___ imports bugs into nokia's db Sep 16 13:49:43 Usually at least once every couple days. Sep 16 13:49:51 yeah. Sep 16 13:50:06 like... now. :-P Sep 16 13:50:11 s/once/one batch/ Sep 16 13:50:11 GeneralAntilles meant: Usually at least one batch every couple days. Sep 16 13:50:21 Too often. . . . Sep 16 13:55:52 * GeneralAntilles is actually somewhat impressed by iTunes 8. Sep 16 14:16:37 hi@all Sep 16 14:16:57 a question about canola2 - is it correct to ask in this chan? Sep 16 14:17:17 #canola is where all the experts are Sep 16 14:17:23 cool Sep 16 14:17:24 but you may get an answer here. Sep 16 14:17:25 thanx Sep 16 14:17:28 ok Sep 16 14:20:42 so - it's just about the albom cover art sorting option... when i'm trying to go into album sort i have an album for every song of this album... sorry, it's realy difficult to explain... so imagine - album "jogga" and there are 5 tracks in it - in winamp i have just : album "joga" and in it 5 tracks, in canola i have 5 times the album "jogga" - once for every track... :( Sep 16 14:21:10 i think it's a way canola interpretes id tags - but dunno know how to solve it... what should i change? Sep 16 14:23:29 Somebody needs to hit tz with a stick Sep 16 14:23:35 His bug reports are the next best thing to useless. Sep 16 14:24:24 hi! Sep 16 14:26:06 hm... nobody a hint? Sep 16 14:26:27 would an imap mail account result in downloading ALL headers of the messages I have? Sep 16 14:26:46 fluentis: there is one optionin the settings to remove duplicates Sep 16 14:26:48 sadfasdfalsdf Sep 16 14:27:13 nope it's not duplicates Sep 16 14:27:28 but to put them in one "group" Sep 16 14:28:00 could somebody help me with my Python/PIL problem? Sep 16 14:28:29 jsmanrique, I was going to take a look at it right now Sep 16 14:28:50 lmoura: ok, thanks Sep 16 14:29:13 it's under settings media library -> Multiple album entries Sep 16 14:29:17 so, the jpeg codec fails in n810, although using the same version? Sep 16 14:29:43 lmoura: jpeg codec fails in N800, but works in N810 Sep 16 14:29:49 lmoura: both have same OS Sep 16 14:29:53 oh, right Sep 16 14:30:05 keesj: i'll try it now... thank you Sep 16 14:30:07 lmoura: and both seem having same Python (2.5.2) Sep 16 14:30:39 ok Sep 16 14:30:52 lmoura: both have libjpeg 62 Sep 16 14:30:56 another question is about dosbox for maemo.... hmm... how to get acces to special funkttion keys with n810 hardware keyboard? f1, f2 etc? Sep 16 14:32:12 jsmanrique, is that Image module the PIL one or you wrote it? Sep 16 14:34:00 lmoura: it is the PIL one... I don't have that programming level to create my own one :-D Sep 16 14:34:26 jsmanrique, easy package? I'm talking to their developers now Sep 16 14:35:14 lmoura: both machines are using easy 0.7, but the error seems to come from PIL from PyMaemo.. I think Sep 16 14:35:19 jsmanrique: what about comparing the package list installed on both machines ? Sep 16 14:35:31 melmoth: done Sep 16 14:35:47 melmoth: but it is not a trivial task Sep 16 14:36:14 of course it is... dpkg -l , a bit of python or sed/awk to read both list and compare Sep 16 14:36:41 melmoth: yes, more or less Sep 16 14:37:01 actually, its the same os installed ? dpkg -i > list.txt , then sort them, then diff them Sep 16 14:37:30 melmoth: ok, maybe I could try Sep 16 14:40:30 jsmanrique, melmoth it is looking like more a missing dependency while building the package Sep 16 14:41:21 lmoura: same os, so i would expect same packages content and dependencies definitions Sep 16 14:42:07 melmoth: it seems that python2.5-imaging is the same in both devices (1.1.6-1osso2) Sep 16 14:43:36 it seems that python2.5-runtime is different Sep 16 14:44:06 c1.0-3 in n810 and 1.0-8 in n800 Sep 16 14:44:26 jsmanrique, python runtime is just a meta package for the python* packages Sep 16 14:46:00 python-hildon is also different Sep 16 14:46:27 0.8.8-1oso8 en n810, and 0.8.9-1osso2 in n800 Sep 16 14:47:59 jsmanrique, I'm going out for lunch now and when I'm back I'll continue, ok? Sep 16 14:48:08 ok Sep 16 14:48:29 maybe I'll send the python installed packages list to maemo and pymaemo developers list.. Sep 16 14:50:38 * guenther points at the /topic Sep 16 14:50:49 Are the results still provisional? Sep 16 14:51:20 Didn't the 5 day time-frame pass already? Sep 16 14:55:07 jsmanrique: why wouldnt you start by updating the machine to the latest version of pcakage available ? Sep 16 14:55:20 you know. bug gest fixed (sometimes) Sep 16 14:57:42 melmoth: nice idea, but... everything in n800 was installed from zero yesterday Sep 16 14:58:42 if i were you , i would try it anyway Sep 16 14:59:03 once i would have the same settings everywhere, then, comparing strace Sep 16 14:59:31 melmoth: but, package manager says that there isn't any update available... Sep 16 15:00:08 how is this possible : if you use the same repo, then you should have the same version of software installed on both system if both are up to date Sep 16 15:00:32 somebody use dosbox on a n810? Sep 16 15:00:40 melmoth: that is one of my questions Sep 16 15:01:08 melmoth: n810 has more repos, but n800 is using latest updates... so, is the bug new? Sep 16 15:01:22 may be Sep 16 15:01:33 melmoth: and this is turning me mad Sep 16 15:02:48 make both system up to date at the same patchlevel. double check it is still wokring ok on the one where you did not have the problem (just in case it s a new bug) Sep 16 15:03:03 if it s a new bug: report it on bugzilla.maemo.org with a test case Sep 16 15:03:33 if not, compare strace output on both system, and try to see why it says there is no such file Sep 16 15:03:40 may be permission, who knows ? Sep 16 15:07:46 melmoth: now, both devices have same repositories configured... Sep 16 15:08:11 melmoth: both are updating packages list.. let's see if they ask for updates.. Sep 16 15:08:52 guenther, suppose not, dneary needs to declare, though. Sep 16 15:09:07 melmoth: nice, 10 updates for n810 Sep 16 15:10:21 melmoth: but, none python related :-/ Sep 16 15:11:19 GeneralAntilles: Ah, I see. Sep 16 15:12:12 guenther, by the way, thanks for the help on the IRC bot. Sep 16 15:13:32 sure, no problem Sep 16 15:14:25 Howdy, lardman. Sep 16 15:24:10 python packages list sent to pymaemo mailing list Sep 16 15:49:12 <|fluentis|> does anybody know in which chan i could ask a question about dosbox in maemo? Sep 16 15:49:47 <||cw> I guess you could ask here... maybe some one uses it Sep 16 15:50:44 <|fluentis|> so - i need a hint, how to access the funktion key (F1, F2, F3 etc.) on a hardwarekeyboard of a N810 Sep 16 15:51:02 <|fluentis|> in dosbox Sep 16 16:02:24 GeneralAntilles: i spent a lot of time trying to report a bug to apple about itunes8 Sep 16 16:03:01 it insisted on server the mandatory terms and conditions in Finnish to myself (an English speaker) and my russian colleague Sep 16 16:03:27 GeneralAntilles: who's tz? Sep 16 16:06:48 Hi GeneralAntilles, sorry for the delay Sep 16 16:07:45 timelyx, https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&emailreporter1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=thomas%40mich.com Sep 16 16:07:53 In particular, this bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3560 Sep 16 16:08:51 I have to leave... Sep 16 16:08:56 see you tomorro Sep 16 16:09:11 GeneralAntilles: Can you access the google docs presentation? Doesn't seem to like me Sep 16 16:10:02 Yeah, http://docs.google.com/Presentation?docid=dfrtdqv5_79g7r73ggv&hl=en Sep 16 16:11:28 Bring on faster hw, this is painfully slow - modest + email draft + web x2 + pidgin for irc Sep 16 16:12:06 pidgin sucks for irc, xchat ftw Sep 16 16:13:25 Let me check Sep 16 16:13:54 Hehe Sep 16 16:13:56 If you want real lightness, irssi :P Sep 16 16:13:56 Yeah, XChat for serious. Sep 16 16:13:59 It's in Extras-devel. Sep 16 16:15:16 Ok, just installed Sep 16 16:15:19 * qwerty12 sighs and tries to fix a simple string replace util that keeps segfaulting Sep 16 16:15:21 Bbiam Sep 16 16:15:26 lardman, despite the slowness, it's damn cool that it can manage it at all. :D Sep 16 16:17:52 qwerty12: sed? Sep 16 16:18:49 derf: yeah, I guess that's an option. I wonder why the author of this code chose to make his own utility. Sep 16 16:19:44 Why are there 5,000 text editors? Sep 16 16:20:00 because a great number of text editors make one microsoft word? Sep 16 16:20:01 :P Sep 16 16:20:26 better, device crashed Sep 16 16:20:32 Even I wrote a text editor. For DOS. In PASCAL. Sep 16 16:20:48 Fortunately, I wisely threw that code away rather than let anyone see it. Sep 16 16:21:12 it's now sleeping, waiting for the moment when the Stars Are Right. Sep 16 16:22:09 <||cw> the text editors I use do things word doens't Sep 16 16:22:15 derf: because 99% of text editors suck. nobody can get it right ;) Sep 16 16:22:24 <||cw> and word does things my text editors don't. they are for different tasks Sep 16 16:22:34 GeneralAntilles: only seems to be one page? Sep 16 16:22:41 <||cw> scite does things pretty damned right Sep 16 16:22:53 lardman, it just needs your bio entries Sep 16 16:22:57 If you want to paste them to me I can enter them Sep 16 16:23:07 /paste you the others for examples. Sep 16 16:23:18 does it order cups of tea for you during a long code jamming session? i think not Sep 16 16:23:28 so not right ;) Sep 16 16:23:32 emacs will. Sep 16 16:23:39 <||cw> I'm sure one could make a plug-in to do that Sep 16 16:24:01 <||cw> emas is an OS, not an editor :P Sep 16 16:24:08 C-x M-c M-cupoftea Sep 16 16:24:15 GeneralAntilles: i'll have a look and send them in an email Sep 16 16:24:17 qwerty12: is soft poweroff similar to s2ram btw? Sep 16 16:24:53 Stskeeps: I would say not. s2ram suspends the cpu and softpoweroff keeps the tablet alive while it is in that state Sep 16 16:25:18 true Sep 16 16:25:32 There was an actual s2ram script floating around a while back. Sep 16 16:25:44 there's a binary without source still (n800-s2ram) Sep 16 16:25:49 http://ftp.iasi.roedu.net/mirrors/openwrt.org/people/mbm/n800/suspend.sh Sep 16 16:25:50 and i just wonder how it works Sep 16 16:25:56 ^^ the script Sep 16 16:26:05 oh that's interesting Sep 16 16:26:09 It can just use the normal Linux software suspend interface. Sep 16 16:26:19 The only problem is it has to frob the watchdog. Sep 16 16:26:27 So it can only suspend for 60s at a time. Sep 16 16:26:39 yeah, but that prolly helps power consumption Sep 16 16:26:48 Better than nothing, anyway. Sep 16 16:26:58 nice Sep 16 16:27:26 GeneralAntilles: you should at least mention how to get the log form application manager Sep 16 16:29:10 derf: fanoush spoke something about 30 days on s2ram Sep 16 16:29:41 I'd believe it. Sep 16 16:30:09 Does that binary integrate itself nicely into the soft poweroff menu? Sep 16 16:31:01 No, it runs as a service Sep 16 16:31:18 Stskeeps, soft poweroff is no different from locking. Sep 16 16:31:34 Maybe I will write one that does. Sep 16 16:31:58 I am back (at home now) Sep 16 16:33:04 so, anyone ELSE in berlin yet? ;p Sep 16 16:33:26 * Mek isn't arriving until friday during lunch :P Sep 16 16:33:50 rm_you, how was the flight? :D Sep 16 16:34:10 according to the travel wiki, we should have a few by now. just the problem of them finding wireless and loading up irc :P Sep 16 16:34:25 johnx_: not actually that bad Sep 16 16:34:35 rm_you: i'm flying tomorrow morning Sep 16 16:34:40 no idea about flight path or anything Sep 16 16:34:41 barely made my connection Sep 16 16:34:46 anyone know anything about the conferencing? Sep 16 16:34:52 i'm scheduled to do a presentation Sep 16 16:34:57 but no one explained what i'd have Sep 16 16:35:02 like a projector... Sep 16 16:35:06 or support for slides Sep 16 16:35:09 or a whiteboard Sep 16 16:35:16 or a microphone.. Sep 16 16:35:23 rm_you, skeery. I've had to run for those before...always exciting, rarely fun Sep 16 16:35:25 had to sprint to make it, landed at 530 and departure was 550. surprised my bg made the transfer Sep 16 16:35:45 timelyx, there may be details on the wiki. Sep 16 16:35:49 wow Sep 16 16:35:52 Supposedly there should be stuff there. Sep 16 16:35:58 s/bg/bag/ Sep 16 16:35:58 rm_you meant: had to sprint to make it, landed at 530 and departure was 550. surprised my bag made the transfer Sep 16 16:35:59 I've yet to see a straight answer, though. Sep 16 16:36:15 GeneralAntilles: how about wifi? :) Sep 16 16:36:35 yes, i can be greedy sometimes ;-) Sep 16 16:37:05 Wifi should be plentiful Sep 16 16:37:17 johnx_: unlike japan, i was able to buy a prepaid sim card and phone for 20€ Sep 16 16:37:22 The c-base guys are setting up a server to handle videos, pictures and such Sep 16 16:37:23 the last conference i was at, the wifi was slower than my cell Sep 16 16:37:28 So there's got to be a way to access it. Sep 16 16:37:38 ___t is with c-base, I believe. Sep 16 16:37:40 yeh but this is osim, not cbase Sep 16 16:37:42 So if you see him here, you can ask. Sep 16 16:37:57 btw, since i should arrive tomorrow Sep 16 16:37:59 The presentations for you guys will be at c-base, though, no? Sep 16 16:38:02 can i go to osim? if so, how? Sep 16 16:38:13 i'm only scheduled to present at maemo summit on friday @4 Sep 16 16:38:27 i'm not scheduled to go to osim Sep 16 16:38:31 * timelyx isn't sure what an osim is Sep 16 16:38:39 OSIM is where Ari is giving his talk. Sep 16 16:38:43 ah yeh prolly the one he's talking about... but i have to demo stuff at the booth tomorro Sep 16 16:38:46 rm_you, the situation is better here if you take a 3G GSM phone from Europe. There should be a way to roam on docomo...but I digress... Sep 16 16:39:13 timelyx, most of the community guys being sponsored are registered for OSiM Sep 16 16:39:18 Dunno about the corporate folks. Sep 16 16:39:23 i thought the system there wasnt even supported by quadband >_> Sep 16 16:39:27 That'd be an internal question'd be my bet. Sep 16 16:39:51 what's it cost to attend? Sep 16 16:39:59 3000€ Sep 16 16:40:05 ish Sep 16 16:40:26 rm_you, it's ... uhm ... complicated Sep 16 16:41:01 you can come to the free dev session... tho i have a feeling nokia should have already paid for you... Sep 16 16:42:08 or... dunno wtf your situation is Sep 16 16:42:13 i didn't ask to go to osim Sep 16 16:42:24 jott is filling me in Sep 16 16:42:33 Probably the only interesting thing is Ari's talk. Sep 16 16:42:49 * lardman isn't going to osim either - at another conf Sep 16 16:42:51 bbl Sep 16 16:43:28 JamieBennett may very well be taping Ari's talk, so it may not matter that much. Sep 16 16:48:11 ok, alternatively, is there some place to do work @osim Sep 16 16:48:19 like could i go, get free wifi and power and just code for maemo Sep 16 16:48:22 also, will bpeople be around for pre sumats? Sep 16 16:48:32 s/sumats/summit chats/ Sep 16 16:48:33 timelyx meant: also, will bpeople be around for pre summit chats? Sep 16 16:52:06 i'll be at osim but i imagine people will want to gather at the end of the day for aemo discussion, etc Sep 16 16:52:30 *maemo Sep 16 16:53:35 lmoura: could you test something? Sep 16 16:54:49 jsmanrique, I managed to reproduce it here Sep 16 16:55:54 lmoura: that sounds interesting Sep 16 16:59:03 * brontide is waiting around for my flight Sep 16 16:59:41 The tablets are the perfect airport companions. Sep 16 17:00:00 Glad I setup my BT/3g link last week Sep 16 17:00:20 right now I'm on my laptop listening to german phrases Sep 16 17:00:23 Here's some really lame spam: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=224344#post224344 Sep 16 17:01:03 Bah, now they are going after existing threads? Spammers need to get a life Sep 16 17:01:28 They've been using that approach for a couple weeks now. Sep 16 17:02:04 First I've seen it, but iTT has been low on my list as of lately due to life Sep 16 17:02:22 Just as well, it's more of a waste of time than usual. Sep 16 17:02:25 hi all Sep 16 17:02:41 is someone of you already at maemo summit? Sep 16 17:02:41 Hi Andy Sep 16 17:02:54 * brontide is about 12 hours away Sep 16 17:03:33 brontide: you'll be there in 12 hours? Sep 16 17:03:45 give or take Sep 16 17:04:27 cool :) I'll be there on 18, late in the evening Sep 16 17:06:24 are people having an informal meeting anywhere before friday? Sep 16 17:06:33 ie outside c-base or something Sep 16 17:06:41 or in a hotel or somethin Sep 16 17:07:28 I'm sure something ad-hoc will appear thursday after OSiM Sep 16 17:08:19 well, all the sponsored people that are attending osim will probably meet tomorrow for the keynote Sep 16 17:08:44 rm_you, are you in germany already Sep 16 17:09:05 * jott can poke rm_you for real Sep 16 17:09:14 Do it! Sep 16 17:09:19 and rm_you can stroke your pussy for real Sep 16 17:09:41 * jott does not share lcuks fantasies Sep 16 17:09:44 i'm currently hanging out with jott, so... if anyone is in the area, we've just been hacking all afternoon Sep 16 17:09:59 he does have TWO cute pussies Sep 16 17:10:04 back Sep 16 17:10:11 lcuk/rm_you/jott moo Sep 16 17:10:15 hey! Sep 16 17:10:20 rm_you, ive seen his cats, but he didnt show me the pussy movies Sep 16 17:10:35 you must be very special :D Sep 16 17:11:16 lol Sep 16 17:11:17 RST38h, are you comin to berlin this week? Sep 16 17:11:40 hmm, is it time for a cold beer yet? :) Sep 16 17:11:41 how was the flight rm_you Sep 16 17:11:49 nnnn Sep 16 17:11:49 its ALWAYS time for a cold beer Sep 16 17:11:49 * brontide needs a shower Sep 16 17:11:55 unless its time for a warm beer Sep 16 17:12:02 lcuk: Nope Sep 16 17:12:02 which case you would know its not time for a cold beer Sep 16 17:12:07 lcuk: Work. Sep 16 17:12:14 * lcuk is goin aq bit mad with stress Sep 16 17:12:22 RST38h: lcuk motto is "never code sober" Sep 16 17:12:27 That's too bad, RST38h. Sep 16 17:12:33 he always tries to hit the ballmer peak Sep 16 17:12:36 not bad. sat next to an old german guy named hans who knew a little bit of english so we took turns trying to speak each other's language Sep 16 17:12:38 Isn't Intel sponsoring OSiM? Sep 16 17:12:47 jott, i have only ever coded once whilst drunk and i cocked that up so i wont try again Sep 16 17:13:14 and we did some of the exercises from my intro german textbook. he just had to do them backwards ;p Sep 16 17:13:19 ew, another legend dies :~( Sep 16 17:13:22 lol rm_you if you arent careful you could setoff an international incident Sep 16 17:13:27 * lcuk can imagine the news Sep 16 17:13:32 General: I am a corporate slave at the moment. Sep 16 17:13:48 heh Sep 16 17:13:51 RST38h, I know the feeling :/ Sep 16 17:14:04 jott: Yea, just today we discussed elaborate torture plans for a few people with the same motto =) Sep 16 17:14:21 "Today an IRC hacker named rm punched a german passenger whilst onboard a jet at 37000feet, he said 'my mother is not the local whore'. " Sep 16 17:14:28 RST38h, just think about how much money you're making the stockholders. ;) Sep 16 17:14:42 General: Stock is down to $19+ - so not much Sep 16 17:14:56 stock around the world is becoming like toilet paper Sep 16 17:15:00 General: One the other hand, given yesterday financial clusterfuck... Sep 16 17:15:23 The world is coming down. Sep 16 17:15:27 * lcuk wonders if he will get home after trip Sep 16 17:15:48 GeneralAntilles, its not entirely collapsing, but theres a big shift happening Sep 16 17:15:55 lcuk: well, the oil is down too, so you have got pretty good chances the airline will still have fuel Sep 16 17:16:01 yeah. some major us financial company declared chapter 11 bankruptcy? i was hearing about it in the airport Sep 16 17:16:30 * johnx_ thought he might be safe from the US's financial "issues" here...turns out he was wrong Sep 16 17:16:33 rm_you: Rather, they are lining up for bankruptcy proceedings Sep 16 17:16:44 rm_you, over in the uk, 2 large travel firms went bump, leaving thousands of people stuck abroad in hot countries without any spare suncream Sep 16 17:16:45 johnx: Nobody is safe realy Sep 16 17:16:58 rm_you, world stock markets are going non-linear Sep 16 17:17:07 Well, economic downturns ARE good for the environment. :P Sep 16 17:17:21 johnx_, they have never been linear Sep 16 17:17:40 GeneralAntilles, "no more humans" would also be good for the environment... Sep 16 17:17:53 * rm_you doesn't even know what that means Sep 16 17:17:58 johnx: That is what I have been advocating all the way Sep 16 17:18:04 johnx: KILL ALL HUMANS Sep 16 17:18:04 Hehe Sep 16 17:18:44 Gah... CNN is advocating.. "Don't pull your money out now, we're just hitting bottom" Sep 16 17:18:48 rm_you, the stockmarket is just one example of a chaotic system which can occasionally go through localised stability periods followed by a bifurcation which can trigger a lot of randomness Sep 16 17:18:59 please someone gouge my eyes out Sep 16 17:19:06 actually, I'd like to put some money in now... Sep 16 17:19:17 brontide, any preference to which tool i use Sep 16 17:19:35 spoon Sep 16 17:19:39 yeah. well. i hope i can make it through college :P Sep 16 17:19:44 all I have is sporks... Sep 16 17:19:45 johnx_, not all of it though :) just enough to see if you catch it right Sep 16 17:19:56 * brontide hates airports Sep 16 17:20:02 where you comin from? Sep 16 17:20:11 lcuk, just enough to wish I had put more in if it works and less in if it fails? Sep 16 17:20:12 ive got 2 flights there and 2 back Sep 16 17:20:21 johnx_, yeah Sep 16 17:20:39 Albany International Airport... hah, flights to canada shouldn't count eh Sep 16 17:20:57 brontide: "Now is the best time to buy in!" (C)RBC.RU Sep 16 17:21:00 ahhh didnt know you were so far Sep 16 17:21:20 Have been telling it for a few days now. Today's stats: MMVB -17+%, RTS -11+% Sep 16 17:21:42 Here to JFK->Tegel Sep 16 17:22:00 nokias pocket i assume? Sep 16 17:22:25 Should be there in time to catch the keynote tomorrow... of course. I'm a lousy state worker, I have time, but no money ;-) Sep 16 17:23:10 heh Sep 16 17:24:34 Ugh... it's a real puddle jumper for the first flight Sep 16 17:24:52 comair? Sep 16 17:25:01 Delta Sep 16 17:25:15 delta's puddle jumpers are usually served by comair out of jfk Sep 16 17:25:17 Delta connect.... some partner-ish Sep 16 17:25:23 It is Comair. Sep 16 17:25:30 Freedom air Sep 16 17:25:32 60% on time arrivals Sep 16 17:25:47 Freedom Air is something new, dunno them Sep 16 17:26:09 Probably the same thing, new management Sep 16 17:27:01 Delta: 76% Sep 16 17:28:26 bah, as long as I get off the ground in jfk by 7pm EST I'll be fine Sep 16 17:28:39 Thanks for cheering me up Sep 16 17:28:42 :-P Sep 16 17:30:27 anyways... gotta go and save my phone battery... chat more later Sep 16 17:45:52 * jsmanrique adding personal maemo-summit travel info to the wiki Sep 16 17:56:58 will we see freemantle and a new device in Ari's keynote tomorrow? what do you think? Sep 16 17:59:02 General: Check http://fms.komkon.org/MaemoMain.html again Sep 16 17:59:16 I have started putting together the documentation page Sep 16 18:02:19 wb qwerty12_N800 Sep 16 18:02:24 jsmanrique, did you solve the problem of the camera decoder ? Sep 16 18:02:32 hi Stskeeps Sep 16 18:16:02 how can US economy be bad an now 1 EUR is worth 1,38 USD previously it has been 1,55.. Sep 16 18:17:01 world economies are complex and intertangled Sep 16 18:17:20 dystopia: and the US has been living on rest of world's charge card for a long time Sep 16 18:17:26 dystopia: The exchange rate is like that because everyone's currency is falling, albeit at different rates. Sep 16 18:17:40 dystopia: anyway, the midpoint is 1.41451 according to xe.com Sep 16 18:17:52 which is a bit off the high, but not that much Sep 16 18:18:29 gold has taken more of a hit, fascinatingly. $776 USD Sep 16 18:18:51 over 20% off high Sep 16 18:18:59 yet people are selling their gold... Sep 16 18:19:43 maybe americans still believe in their currency, i see the Eu stock markets often reacting to the US stock markets Sep 16 18:19:53 oil is down to $90-ish Sep 16 18:19:57 or at least, that is what the radio is tellin' Sep 16 18:20:06 yeah that too, oil price lowers too.. Sep 16 18:20:11 * dystopia just doesn't get economics Sep 16 18:20:12 dystopia: the actual productive capacity of the US economy is still high Sep 16 18:20:17 dystopia: they've just run up a lot of debt Sep 16 18:20:28 dystopia: oil is priced in dollars. also, saudis are bucking opec Sep 16 18:20:54 dystopia: economics is fascinating. tangled ecology Sep 16 18:20:56 nemo: gold is overvalued, it had years of rising up Sep 16 18:20:58 oil in dollars, dollar is worth less..? Sep 16 18:20:59 can't just harm one thing without harming everything Sep 16 18:21:08 still, gold is gonna go up ;) Sep 16 18:21:15 RST38h: well, in inflation adjusted dollars, is not that high. Sep 16 18:21:29 nemo: more than dollars themselves though =) Sep 16 18:21:46 i heard asia is bailing out of USD favoring EUR Sep 16 18:22:00 RST38h: dollar itself isn't properly inflation adjusted yet Sep 16 18:22:08 RST38h: the disparity may be closed from either end Sep 16 18:22:15 true Sep 16 18:22:20 dystopia: currency holdings are being diversified. Sep 16 18:22:27 I doubt they'll switch exclusively to Euro Sep 16 18:22:31 jsmanrique, I tried recompiling the package and it worked in N800. I'll upload it and soon will be fixed Sep 16 18:22:35 european union would just take advantage of it like US did Sep 16 18:22:58 if i were asia i'd use both Sep 16 18:23:23 if I was in asia I'd use as many stable assets as I could find Sep 16 18:23:30 trouble is, these days, stable assets are hard to find Sep 16 18:23:56 dystopia: http://x.m8y.org/1k Sep 16 18:23:58 because economy is a lot of hot air ;-) Sep 16 18:24:01 thanks Sep 16 18:24:10 There can't possibly be enough of a market in netbooks to justify the explosion of available modules on the market. . . . Sep 16 18:24:13 dystopia: clever dude. he predicted our next bubble well in advance Sep 16 18:24:18 I made use of his prediction already Sep 16 18:24:37 dystopia: just last week I heard Marketplace discussing it, so he definitely beat the curve Sep 16 18:25:42 interesting Sep 16 18:26:52 on elementary school i was taught depressions happen approx every 7 years Sep 16 18:27:50 with reference to the egyptian story about the cows and agriculture, with 7 years good, 7 years bad.. but i'm not sure such should be taken seriously as it refers to the bible Sep 16 18:27:56 * RST38h registered to vote Sep 16 18:28:16 This is how low I have fallen... Sep 16 18:29:07 is there a relationship between these depressions in the 20th/21st century and the FRS? Sep 16 18:31:16 dystopia: with respect to US economy, the rule of thumb was 5 years up, 1 down Sep 16 18:31:44 but, of course, every rule of thumb changes once your thumb gets broken... Sep 16 18:31:46 newly elected President Richard Nixon faced a run on the U.S. gold supply, and his solution was novel: unilaterally end the U.S. legal obligation to redeem dollars with gold; in other words, default. <- death of the gold standard Sep 16 18:31:56 RST38h: hehe:-) Sep 16 18:34:17 It?s the old rule about bank debt, applied to international deficit finance: if you owe the banks $3 billion, the bank owns you. But if you owe the banks $10 trillion, you own the banks. <- :0) what a rule! Sep 16 18:34:49 so that is why the US government purchased a bank recently? Sep 16 18:38:11 is the iNES Maemo able to read .zip files or should I extract? Sep 16 18:38:21 use .gz instead Sep 16 18:38:25 I do not read .zips Sep 16 18:39:19 but you do read .nes right? Sep 16 18:39:44 well no point in unzipping and then gz'in so I'll just extract the zips and leave it as .nes Sep 16 18:42:28 liri: gzipping them only takes one command (gzip *.nes) and saves space Sep 16 18:44:10 http://blog.haerwu.biz/tmp/maemo-qemu-bt.jpg ;) Sep 16 18:44:10 nemo: war is good for the economy, correct? Sep 16 18:44:32 hrw: fake? =) Sep 16 18:44:36 RST38h: real Sep 16 18:44:43 RST38h: but not public yet Sep 16 18:44:45 hrw: wow. Sep 16 18:44:48 hrw|gone: wrote a bluetooth device? :P Sep 16 18:45:04 RST38h: use host BT to communicate Sep 16 18:45:13 ah Sep 16 18:46:40 ~curse person which decide that maemo GtkListView ignore keyboard Sep 16 18:46:41 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, person which decide that maemo GtkListView ignore keyboard ! Sep 16 18:51:51 hrw: incredible stuff Sep 16 18:51:58 can it use wifi too? =) Sep 16 18:52:04 Hi ! Sep 16 18:52:17 I ve a question about my flight in a plane Sep 16 18:52:19 RST38h: if you have NDA free documentation for wifi in n8x0... Sep 16 18:52:32 to gain time ... i ll come only with a small baggage Sep 16 18:52:33 mhm Sep 16 18:52:40 keep it with me Sep 16 18:52:46 during the flight Sep 16 18:52:56 do you think that a belt could be a problem ? Sep 16 18:53:14 belt for crossbow? Sep 16 18:54:05 Khertan_WebChat: could always wear the belt and i doubt they'd protest Sep 16 18:59:45 Khertan_WebChat, they understand people wear belt, your main luggage goes in the cargo hold, the hand luggage must be REALLY small - they have limits to what you can hold Sep 16 19:00:08 and you can only take 1 piece of hand luggage through - your laptop bag or a normal carry on bag Sep 16 19:00:26 lcuk: some airlines allow laptop+bag iirc Sep 16 19:00:34 dystopia: depends whose economy your talking about Sep 16 19:00:40 the operative there is *some* i think Sep 16 19:00:58 i wouldnt like to be stood at airport and have to decide which - take a laptop bag with a small pocket Sep 16 19:01:05 dystopia: who's Sep 16 19:01:11 you're Sep 16 19:01:15 wow. my grammar sucks today Sep 16 19:01:21 * nemo gets some more coffee Sep 16 19:01:25 it must be contagious then - sorry Sep 16 19:01:47 * lcuk is taking laptop for the first ever time Sep 16 19:02:00 omg ive still got so much to do Sep 16 19:03:15 dystopia: lot of factors, but war does "create jobs" - is spectacularly inefficient at it of course. gov't created jobs can be thought of as a risky long-term investment that might pay off, or might just run up the credit cards further. Sep 16 19:03:50 Mm.. sweet depression Sep 16 19:04:12 May I remind the participants that the latest war (Iraqi one) has not created a significant amount of jobs Sep 16 19:04:38 RST38h: the world wars helped US initially since it was selling weapons to the other combattants Sep 16 19:04:53 even so, wasn't that beneficial - setting US up as dominant power and currency benefitted it more. Sep 16 19:05:01 god Sep 16 19:05:05 my spelling is screwed too. WTH Sep 16 19:08:11 nemo: since iraq war started usd started to loose value Sep 16 19:08:25 I remember 1usd = 4 pln. now it is rather ~2pln Sep 16 19:11:47 better catch it and bring it back to tight value Sep 16 19:20:17 hrw|gone: one of many factors Sep 16 19:20:29 hrw|gone: but yes. not an insignificant one Sep 16 19:36:02 http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/16/fiorina_palin_lacks_experience.html Sep 16 19:36:10 Fiorina Sep 16 19:36:26 THAT Fiorina Sep 16 19:37:34 jott: around? Sep 16 19:42:20 we kicked jott out, no one likes that guy Sep 16 19:43:17 Has anyone timed what is the longest time to save a page in maemo.org? I've now been waiting for around 3,5 minutes for it to save. Sep 16 19:43:26 (adding application) Sep 16 19:43:58 Ha Sep 16 19:44:03 Downloads is among the worst Sep 16 19:44:12 Go cook yourself dinner or something. Sep 16 19:44:15 maemo.org is slow? Sep 16 19:44:26 News to me. Sep 16 19:44:35 !!! Sep 16 19:44:36 Proteous: Error: "!!" is not a valid command. Sep 16 19:44:41 ... Sep 16 19:44:51 !shush Sep 16 19:44:51 Proteous: Error: "shush" is not a valid command. Sep 16 19:45:34 !IcomplainAboutErrorsAlot Sep 16 19:45:35 Proteous: Error: "IcomplainAboutErrorsAlot" is not a valid command. Sep 16 19:45:57 General: Have you checked the development page layout I have done? Sep 16 19:46:11 !a b Sep 16 19:46:11 Proteous: Error: "a" is not a valid command. Sep 16 19:46:24 save completed! Sep 16 19:46:30 !""" Sep 16 19:46:30 Proteous: Error: No closing quotation Sep 16 19:46:54 !""/"' Sep 16 19:46:54 Proteous: Error: "" is not a valid command. Sep 16 19:46:59 RST38h, the tutorials section looks like a google ad. :P Sep 16 19:47:00 What's next? Attempting an SQL Injection? Sep 16 19:47:04 yes Sep 16 19:47:09 :) Sep 16 19:47:28 Proteous: to save the rest of us, /msg povbot !a b works too Sep 16 19:48:55 General: As long as it is short and clear, this should not be a problem Sep 16 19:49:18 I am more concerned about placing all the other stuff (not tutorial and not reference) Sep 16 19:49:28 Will most likely link to it from Resources pane Sep 16 19:56:50 !sdrawkcab Sep 16 19:56:50 dystopia: Error: "sdrawkcab" is not a valid command. Sep 16 20:06:24 Hi guys. cairoclock is out (thanks khertan!) Sep 16 20:06:27 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/cairoclock/ Sep 16 20:09:16 I just made a small blog post about it: http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2008/09/cairoclock-out.html Sep 16 20:09:51 There's another clock of a similar type in the statusbar-clock package. Sep 16 20:10:37 is it the same? Sep 16 20:11:46 "Bahnhofsuhr" Sep 16 20:11:49 Looks a little nicer. Sep 16 20:12:02 south train station ? Sep 16 20:12:19 konttori: no, it isn't the same Sep 16 20:12:27 any screenshots of the statusbar clock thingy? Sep 16 20:13:37 which thingy? Sep 16 20:13:56 * sp3000 has one thingy Sep 16 20:14:02 the statusbar clock home screen applet that GeneralAntilles was talking about Sep 16 20:14:04 sp3000 i'm still trying... and i'm hitting some snags Sep 16 20:14:16 sp3000 (mostly people snags) Sep 16 20:14:33 mikkov_, they both provide scalable desktop clocks. Sep 16 20:14:33 you're hitting people? Sep 16 20:14:52 timeless: what was the uri to the flash on facebook that didn't work? Sep 16 20:14:58 I was trying to find it yesterday Sep 16 20:15:17 it's basically any video in new facebook Sep 16 20:15:23 or something like that Sep 16 20:15:36 sadly atm new facebook triggers an infinite out of memory dialog cascade instead Sep 16 20:15:37 Ah.. Can you send me a link to any? Sep 16 20:15:40 which made testing kinda suck Sep 16 20:15:43 ;) Sep 16 20:15:45 no. requires a facebook account Sep 16 20:15:47 i don't have one Sep 16 20:15:59 GeneralAntilles: yes, but they are not the same. Transparency is cairoclock's "thing" Sep 16 20:16:05 i sent you an email w/ our tester cc'd and asked him to get steps for you Sep 16 20:16:13 he should get back to you tomorrow Sep 16 20:16:14 thannks Sep 16 20:16:19 i'm travelling tomorrow to berlin Sep 16 20:16:27 I'm not interested in it today either ;) Sep 16 20:16:33 Ah. I'll leave on thursday Sep 16 20:17:36 * robink wishes he hadn't upgraded the kernel modules for his N810 Sep 16 20:17:47 * robink thinks that's what broke the ipv6.ko autoloading. Sep 16 20:18:44 http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/clock.jpg konttori Sep 16 20:19:08 ah. thanks. cool. Sep 16 20:19:24 Looks like that other clock is also using cairo Sep 16 20:19:40 just isn't transparent. Sep 16 20:20:28 * sp3000 removes from home again Sep 16 20:20:36 * sp3000 looks away Sep 16 20:20:39 * sp3000 sees desktop crash Sep 16 20:22:40 My desktop crashes all the time. Sep 16 20:23:54 robink: should you buy new legs for it? *ducks and hides* Sep 16 20:28:18 gomiam: Heh Sep 16 20:28:31 I need either newer nVidia drivers or the Noveau ones. Sep 16 20:28:41 hmm, reminds me Sep 16 20:29:08 The desktop crashes for me, too. More than frequently. Sep 16 20:29:09 * brontide is getting a charge and a good signal Sep 16 20:29:20 Basically, just leave the device alone for a while... Sep 16 20:30:09 By "crash" I mean... All home applets are disabled, and vanished from the desktop. Sep 16 20:30:45 The enabled tray applets get reset to default, too. Sep 16 20:31:04 This seems to have started when I first set up Modest. Sep 16 20:31:16 Does the above ring a bell for anyone? Sep 16 20:31:24 usually one of the applets is causing the crash Sep 16 20:31:26 Oh, N8x0 desktop? Sep 16 20:31:50 hah, yes :-) Sep 16 20:32:09 what applets are you using? Sep 16 20:32:15 You where talking OT, eh? Right, there's a reference to nVidia later... ;) Sep 16 20:33:29 Applets: Used to be RSS Reader, Web Search, Clock, Get Started. Plus OMWeather (unstable edition) and Countdown Home. Sep 16 20:33:49 (this does *not* coincide with unstable OMW install) Sep 16 20:34:45 Status Bar: large status bar clock. alarm applet disabled. Sep 16 20:35:20 FWIW, I disabled all these home applets but Clock and OMWeather. Sep 16 20:35:26 crashed again, just a few ago Sep 16 20:35:55 disable them all. Then you know if it's something else or not Sep 16 20:36:08 Funny, dude. Sep 16 20:36:22 If I disable all applets, how am I supposed to see the crash? Sep 16 20:36:30 Which is... disable all applets. Sep 16 20:36:35 leave menu open Sep 16 20:37:00 hmm... Sep 16 20:37:16 Anyone know why the GPE applet doesn't show todos? Sep 16 20:37:34 you've done everything there's to do? Sep 16 20:37:46 you're free now! Sep 16 20:37:49 Well, applets are disabled. Let me restart though -- they are still saved and enabled in the settings. So I can really disable them. Sep 16 20:38:12 How am I supposed to see if the menu is still open, after the screen is disabled? Sep 16 20:38:21 Got to tap to get t back on... Sep 16 20:38:59 disable screen blanking Sep 16 20:39:17 right, smart move :) Sep 16 20:40:16 actually it seems that applications also exit when hildon-desktop crashes Sep 16 20:41:23 hmm, I don't think I ever got an app running when this happened Sep 16 20:41:50 hmm now i have two hildon-desktops running at the same time ;) Sep 16 20:42:04 looks pretty interesting Sep 16 20:42:11 hmm, wait Sep 16 20:42:25 No option to disable display switching off. Sep 16 20:43:22 ok, now there is three hildon-desktops Sep 16 20:43:56 go mikkov_, go! Sep 16 20:44:05 There's RAM for another one. Sep 16 20:44:47 four Sep 16 20:44:56 five Sep 16 20:45:05 * lcuk starts chanting "Six!!! Six!!! Six!!!" Sep 16 20:45:24 they wont die! Sep 16 20:45:31 uhm, you started announcing with 2... Sep 16 20:45:44 you will have to nuke 'em from orbit. its the only way to be sure. Sep 16 20:45:52 There are *2* here, too. Sep 16 20:46:12 oh, hes got a problem, i thought he was just stresstesting Sep 16 20:46:16 when i try kill them, there always one more Sep 16 20:46:30 you sure they arent just in zombie stage Sep 16 20:47:01 they are all functional ;) Sep 16 20:49:19 situation back to normal :) Sep 16 20:50:32 Haha Sep 16 20:50:34 I love that Sep 16 20:50:37 Hall-o-mirrors Sep 16 20:51:19 ok, applications don't always die when hildon-desktop dies Sep 16 20:52:18 In fact, they usually don't. Sep 16 20:52:24 They just disappear from the task navigator. Sep 16 20:53:13 unless hldon-launcher also went crazy and/or you get whacked by the watchdog Sep 16 20:53:27 hildon-launcher even Sep 16 20:56:38 so. when should i plan to show up for osim? at exactly 8? or like 10ish? Sep 16 21:03:07 geeky conference... 8 he said... Sep 16 21:03:20 a hangover and around 11 for the lucnh Sep 16 21:03:21 :P Sep 16 21:07:06 * brontide wonders what international flight that pidgin is on Sep 16 21:07:48 Tim and I will probably be crashing things around 11 assuming no flight delays Sep 16 21:09:12 samoff? (sp) Sep 16 21:22:09 'samoff' seems to be the correct spelling. Sep 16 21:28:14 Stskeeps: Yep, we're on slow flights over the pond and are meeting up at Tegel Sep 16 21:28:34 hehe, say hi from me and thanks for the logo ;) Sep 16 21:28:54 General, before I go to sleep, do check the development page layout one more time Sep 16 21:28:56 you should try to do world record wifi connection from plane2plane Sep 16 21:29:10 General: It looks like vertical columns have not been such a good idea so I changed them Sep 16 21:46:33 hm... anyone used http://stardict.sourceforge.net/Dictionaries_WikiPedia.php ? Sep 16 21:56:48 qwerty12_N800: you happen to remember which kernel .config setting generates fbcon, softcursor, bitblit, font? Sep 16 21:57:59 Stskeeps: no, there's quite a few of them, can't remember the settings i enabled :/ Sep 16 21:58:25 nm, got it Sep 16 21:58:44 it's basically enabling framebuffer console Sep 16 22:00:50 * GeneralAntilles still doesn't get what allnameswereout's angle is. Sep 16 22:06:37 * brontide-alt thinks some people just like to argue Sep 16 22:08:01 Evidently Sep 16 22:09:50 if server upgrade isn't done soon, we're in deep shit Sep 16 22:10:56 Why's that? Sep 16 22:11:30 maemo.org is beginning to totally unusable Sep 16 22:11:35 to be Sep 16 22:11:43 Erm? Sep 16 22:11:45 That's new? Sep 16 22:12:00 more of the same Sep 16 22:12:39 It's frustrating since I would to put more stuff there Sep 16 22:12:46 not new, now it's getting unbearable even for me Sep 16 22:12:52 :/ Sep 16 22:13:32 Eh, it fluctuates. Sep 16 22:14:02 flatulates more likely Sep 16 22:14:27 trend to slower and slower Sep 16 22:14:42 The stupid Finnish holiday really screwed us over. Sep 16 22:15:05 what holiday? Sep 16 22:15:14 anyways... that's my plane.... be back when I can find reliable internet in Berlin Sep 16 22:15:25 The really lame Finnish summer holiday. Sep 16 22:15:37 that was 1.5 months ago Sep 16 22:16:00 Right Sep 16 22:16:15 We might be a month into new servers if it weren't for the holiday. Sep 16 22:17:30 and generally you can keep your holidays somewhere between may and august Sep 16 22:19:11 qwerty12_N800: noticed "Kernel Execute-In-Place from ROM" in .config btw Sep 16 22:19:13 My point being, the people at the ISP needed to get the upgrade move going went on hoilday Sep 16 22:19:20 qwerty12_N800: (not active) Sep 16 22:19:22 which delayed the upgrade until now. Sep 16 22:20:06 Stskeeps: yeah, .config has a lot of things (like kexec) but they don't work :( Sep 16 22:24:38 I can't help noticing that when I click a URL in xterm, it underlines but doesn't open. Is there a way to make it open? Sep 16 22:24:48 like ctrl-click Sep 16 22:24:53 or sumfin Sep 16 22:25:13 grab my xterm mod Sep 16 22:25:32 gimme :) Sep 16 22:25:48 they disabled the context menu because of bugs, i reenabled because open url worked fine :) Sep 16 22:25:52 a sec :) Sep 16 22:25:53 holy day:-) Sep 16 22:26:23 is it possible to actually use a newer kernel than the stock using the .config from old ? Sep 16 22:26:55 also, is there any way to make urls open in a new browser, instead of clobbering my existing one? Sep 16 22:26:56 sneakret: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23291 Sep 16 22:27:05 thanks! Sep 16 22:27:46 ironically he can't click on it :0) Sep 16 22:28:10 I noticed that irony myself! :) Sep 16 22:28:20 using irssi? :p Sep 16 22:28:54 and... wouldn't it be nice to be able to open a URL from the search applet? Sep 16 22:29:34 once you got it working i'll send you a link to http://www.unixsex.com Sep 16 22:29:35 can't screen xchat Sep 16 22:29:51 you can get xchat for maemo Sep 16 22:30:04 it's in diablo extras-devel Sep 16 22:30:07 You can proxy it, though. Sep 16 22:30:24 dircproxy or something? Sep 16 22:30:37 irssi-proxy Sep 16 22:30:44 ssh -X forwarding i'd presume Sep 16 22:30:44 irssi-proxy Sep 16 22:30:56 it's good to know that maemo.org maintainer is close to his work place ;) http://nemein.com/en/people/ Sep 16 22:30:56 ah, cool. I'll check it out then! Sep 16 22:31:28 there is a manual about this on http://www.irssi.org or type /set proxy Sep 16 22:32:28 is there some reason why xchat is only in extras-devel? Sep 16 22:32:33 seems like it should be possible to add an Open URL to the search applet... has that been done? Sep 16 22:32:36 timeless: HAHA Sep 16 22:33:06 mikkov, mgedmin is working on cleaning up the packaging. Sep 16 22:33:17 mikkov_: mgedmin explained on -developers that there are too much locale packages Sep 16 22:33:18 Thanks for the uppercase hint. :) That was from memory, but I am positive it actually is upper case. Sep 16 22:33:28 timelyx: ^^ Or is it you? ;) Sep 16 22:33:43 it does clutter the list Sep 16 22:39:06 I think that xchat could be in extras. Seems to work fine Sep 16 22:39:16 qwerty12_N800: No tidy little patched xterm package, eh? Sep 16 22:39:24 Like we said, it's just the packaging. ;) Sep 16 22:39:47 If somebody wants to jump in and clean it up for him, I'm sure he wouldn't mind. Sep 16 22:39:54 packaging can be fixed later. Sep 16 22:40:02 sneakret: it's a deb. Sep 16 22:40:05 jus promoting xchat should be fine Sep 16 22:40:43 ah.... I thought it was just a .patch Sep 16 22:41:16 I need to get a windshield holder for the tablet for my headboard. . . . Sep 16 22:41:16 Oh! didn't see the attachment Sep 16 22:41:21 d'oh Sep 16 22:42:40 xchat statusbar thing seems pretty useless to me Sep 16 22:42:48 It is Sep 16 22:42:55 it can be disabled in settings Sep 16 22:42:57 Turn it off in prefs. Sep 16 22:43:18 i would vote for totally removing it ;) Sep 16 22:43:38 Disabled by default, maybe. Sep 16 22:43:44 ^ Sep 16 22:44:51 Hrm, let's see Sep 16 22:45:01 Ari's talk is at 11:55 UTC+2 tomorrow Sep 16 22:45:13 5:55 local Sep 16 22:47:14 why do I have a window called 'browserd' under all my other windows, showing gmail which I thought I just closed? Sep 16 22:48:11 Argh, I'm missing Maemo-Summit Sep 16 22:53:20 17:55 tomorow? live? Sep 16 22:57:06 AM Sep 16 22:57:25 Doubtf there'll be a webcast Sep 16 22:57:49 Somebody should be updating us here. Sep 16 22:58:11 if i crash out of a program - what happens to the memory - is it all freed up or can it be slowly eaten Sep 16 22:58:30 04:55 PDT. Sep 16 22:59:00 so in about 10 hours Sep 16 22:59:23 Assuming it's at 11:55PM over there. Sep 16 23:00:26 11:55 UTC+2 (Finland time), that is 10:55 in Berlin Sep 16 23:00:36 AM Sep 16 23:00:46 Oh, Berlin is +1? Sep 16 23:00:59 Berlin is +1, Finland +2 Sep 16 23:01:04 It's in Berlin, not Finland. Sep 16 23:01:22 so its in about 11 hours Sep 16 23:01:49 02:55 PDT? Sep 16 23:02:17 (GMT -0700)? Sep 16 23:02:20 EDT is -4, PDT is -7 Sep 16 23:02:39 GAN800: You guys are EDT? Sep 16 23:02:44 I am. Sep 16 23:02:55 GAN800: I assume GeneralAntilles is as well. Sep 16 23:02:55 I'm not sure who 'guys' is. Sep 16 23:03:14 * GAN800 <- GeneralAntilles800 Sep 16 23:03:22 lol Sep 16 23:03:24 s/800/N800/ Sep 16 23:03:24 haha OK n/m Sep 16 23:03:33 GAN800: Gotcha. Sep 16 23:03:36 robink: you're right though Sep 16 23:03:44 dystopia: Hurrah. Sep 16 23:04:55 hope some german news service will report about OSiM Sep 16 23:06:44 baloo's got a 720p camera Sep 16 23:07:07 So we'll be getting itat some point. Sep 16 23:07:32 dystopia: Finland is +3 Sep 16 23:07:33 GAN800: One of those $200 720p cameras? Sep 16 23:07:36 Somebody might be able to swing a ustream feed if wifi isn't totally slammed there. Sep 16 23:07:53 robink, no, I think he's got something real. Sep 16 23:07:58 mikkov_: Doesn't Finland have more than one TZ? Sep 16 23:08:05 There's and equipment list on the wiki. Sep 16 23:08:15 robink: no Sep 16 23:08:22 GAN800: The only 720p cameras I could find were ~$200. Sep 16 23:08:33 mikkov_: Oh, 'k. Sep 16 23:08:36 I think berlin is in CEST, and thus UTC+2... Sep 16 23:08:44 robink, most big camera manufacturers have at least one now. Sep 16 23:08:57 GAN800: Didn't know that. Sep 16 23:09:03 it's daylight saving time Sep 16 23:09:21 mikkov_: Ahh. Sep 16 23:09:24 or summer time Sep 16 23:09:31 DST need Sep 16 23:09:34 s die Sep 16 23:09:48 Stupid fkb Sep 16 23:09:54 Why was it initated anyway? Sep 16 23:09:56 GAN800: agreed ;) (abot dst) Sep 16 23:10:09 s/ita/itia/ Sep 16 23:10:09 robink meant: Why was it initiated anyway? Sep 16 23:10:14 Likes to randomly send when I don't want it to and refuses to when I do. Sep 16 23:10:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time might have some reasoning Sep 16 23:10:33 robink, ~wikipedia dst Sep 16 23:10:39 lol Sep 16 23:10:45 Stupid fkb again Sep 16 23:18:52 Berlin is on GMT+1 Sep 16 23:19:38 during dst +2 Sep 16 23:20:19 GMT was deprecated some 30 years ago Sep 16 23:22:27 what is the time in london? Sep 16 23:22:38 DST+1? Sep 16 23:22:51 this is the current time in berlin: Sep 16 23:22:53 err Sep 16 23:22:56 UTC+1 Sep 16 23:22:56 Wed Sep 17 01:23:16 CEST 2008 Sep 16 23:23:14 Berlin is UTC +1, currently UTC +2 due to dailight saving. Sep 16 23:23:23 London is UTC. ;) Sep 16 23:23:33 So, right now... +0100 Sep 16 23:25:36 Helsinki, btw, is UTC +2, thus +0300 now due to daylight saving time. Sep 16 23:25:44 Same for Instanbul. :) Sep 16 23:26:43 i get it, but i assumed the timezone, like for example CEST, would automatically take DST into account Sep 16 23:27:18 so CEST (and if DST is in effect its +1) that how i always counted; wrong Sep 16 23:27:29 If you have that S in the timezone name... yes Sep 16 23:27:55 without S its correct? Sep 16 23:28:02 CEST is central european summer time Sep 16 23:28:06 ahh i see Sep 16 23:28:17 CET or CEST Sep 16 23:28:29 Same as CET. Just the other half of the year. Sep 16 23:28:36 and if you use GMT+1 this isn't possible with +S Sep 16 23:28:47 aye Sep 16 23:29:10 I can't memorize these acronyms anyway. Sep 16 23:29:26 I use timezone offsets internally. :) Sep 16 23:29:28 thats why i prefer GMT+1 etc Sep 16 23:29:50 UTC +1 Sep 16 23:29:52 UTC Sep 16 23:29:57 GMT is deprecated :) Sep 16 23:30:03 GMT is dead Sep 16 23:30:07 and i counted from london, so if london is in summer time and so am i, no need to take DST into account Sep 16 23:30:26 You rarely need to anyway. Sep 16 23:30:42 Most countries do have DST. Sep 16 23:31:07 but the DST goes into effet on different times throuhout the world Sep 16 23:31:14 these countries don't have DST http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_around_the_world#No_DST Sep 16 23:31:20 Differs a week or two, occasionally. But other than that time, it's safe to simply drop the DST and just use timezone offsets. Sep 16 23:32:05 few years ago i almost missed an airplane due to that Sep 16 23:32:19 heh Sep 16 23:32:41 * lcuk would rather walk around the airport for 4 hours than ever risk that chance Sep 16 23:32:46 DST change already in effect, though you didn't know because "yours" isn't? Sep 16 23:32:54 i have my nokia, i can be entertained :) Sep 16 23:33:38 isn't whole EU changing DST at the time now? Sep 16 23:33:40 i think im ready now by the way Sep 16 23:33:48 at the same time Sep 16 23:34:02 dunno, possibly Sep 16 23:34:10 EU and US don't, that I know... Sep 16 23:34:24 Oh, and that some US states changed it recently. Sep 16 23:34:46 Caused some major trouble with PIM software... Sep 16 23:35:09 guenther: exactly Sep 16 23:35:18 Read: All appointments off by 1 hour. Sep 16 23:35:24 That was fun. :) Sep 16 23:35:55 i always use that excuse when i'm late on appt but it gets old quickly for some reason Sep 16 23:36:09 heh :) Sep 16 23:36:20 "my PDA was broken" Sep 16 23:36:27 GAN800, guenther: Thanks; good to know. Sep 16 23:36:39 I was effected only indirectly by that change. Dealt with lots of users... Sep 16 23:37:20 dystopia: yeah, you can use that a few times Sep 16 23:37:31 must be hell experiencing that same problem again and again Sep 16 23:37:46 Just be careful to use it a week, and then let a couple months pass before you use it again. ;) Sep 16 23:38:12 <---wasjust out on town with a large (200 million dollar) customer, a vendor and an agenda. Sep 16 23:38:16 was weird. Sep 16 23:38:30 mt other excuse is that i couldnt find my house keys Sep 16 23:39:00 although i had to use that only once thus far :0) Sep 16 23:39:40 ok, customer was drunk and might not have as much power as he says he has :) Sep 16 23:39:50 * dystopia grins Sep 16 23:40:06 $ ps axw | grep [/]hildon-desktop | wc -l Sep 16 23:40:06 2 Sep 16 23:40:14 Is that normal? Sep 16 23:40:20 at least he wasn't on cocaine Sep 16 23:40:29 Straight after boot. Sep 16 23:40:53 don't know, but here 2 as well Sep 16 23:40:54 guenther: it's normal Sep 16 23:40:57 er, grep and the real hildon-desktop? Sep 16 23:41:09 the processes id are following up too Sep 16 23:41:20 GAN800: No, that's what the [] is for. :) Sep 16 23:41:25 Not counting grep. Sep 16 23:41:42 i also have 2 hildon-input-method, also PID in sequence Sep 16 23:41:44 dystopia: exactly Sep 16 23:41:57 ok, cool, thanks guys Sep 16 23:42:07 So that's not my crashing desktop issue. Sep 16 23:42:15 hehe:-) Sep 16 23:43:01 already ponder a re-flash Sep 16 23:44:05 dystopia: nah. but it was still weird. We're a vendor, another part of our company is a vendor at a different level, and some of the business of this London trip might affect that, cause they might be buying something of someone else instead of us (them), and give us (another part) the maintenance job. Sep 16 23:44:11 polictics. Sep 16 23:47:08 * dystopia is getting a headache already Sep 16 23:47:09 :> Sep 16 23:48:48 dystopia: so we just had a hotel lobby chat that I'm not sure that we should have had. but we were drunk, he was drunk, are we excused? I dunno :) Sep 16 23:49:47 maybe such leads to regaining confidence :0) Sep 16 23:50:21 Veggen: harmonically? Sep 16 23:50:27 No disagreements, just fun? Sep 16 23:50:35 guenther: harmonically. Sep 16 23:50:47 Then it sounds like whatever the topic was, it was right. Sep 16 23:51:12 Makes customers stay. ;) Sep 16 23:51:28 I hope so :) Sep 16 23:52:00 one time at FOSDEM, we (linux developers) went out to dinner to a restaurant some openbsd guy recommended, they came later, and after we ate while they were still ating, we saw a cockroach.. enjoy your meal and see you tomorow ;-) Sep 17 00:51:16 can someone please help me? Sep 17 00:51:23 i'm getting an error from some part of apt Sep 17 00:52:17 i'm doing: apt-get update Sep 17 00:52:36 and i get: Unable to parse package file /path/something-armel_Packages Sep 17 00:56:19 whoa 4 minute lag Sep 17 01:27:34 crashanddie, you about? Sep 17 01:27:51 sp3000: ok, script seems to be doing something :) Sep 17 01:28:02 timeless, are you goin to the summit Sep 17 01:28:10 i fly in a few hours Sep 17 01:28:45 i dont leave for another 24h Sep 17 01:28:58 nervous? Sep 17 01:29:01 an assistant booked the flight for me Sep 17 01:29:05 or lookin forward to it Sep 17 01:29:08 about giving a presentation w/o any prep? Sep 17 01:29:13 oh sure, i look forward to it Sep 17 01:29:18 i can't wait for one of us to be skewered Sep 17 01:29:20 ... Sep 17 01:29:21 heh, ive not written mine either yet :) Sep 17 01:29:37 do you know anything about the place where the presentations will be? Sep 17 01:29:39 but i know exactly the path im taking this time Sep 17 01:29:45 not a damned clue Sep 17 01:29:59 i know some of the people setting it up have been in Sep 17 01:30:03 anyway, my script is doing "something" Sep 17 01:30:20 we have requested a special display stand - an overhead camera for showing nokias on big screen Sep 17 01:30:38 ah, good, i was wondering about that Sep 17 01:30:46 i *need* that ;) Sep 17 01:30:48 what about support for powerpoint/whiteboards? Sep 17 01:30:59 BOYLT Sep 17 01:31:03 * timeless should find a device w/ a modern version of the platform Sep 17 01:31:04 BYOLT even Sep 17 01:31:07 BOYLT? Sep 17 01:31:19 they will have one there a desktop machine setup for presentations though i believe Sep 17 01:31:25 bring your own Sep 17 01:31:58 but cant be guaranteed i dont think Sep 17 01:32:17 at linuxtag everyone took their own Sep 17 01:32:56 ok, what if i just want a whiteboard instead of using a laptop? :) Sep 17 01:33:02 anyway, its bed time Sep 17 01:33:05 * timeless isn't really a fan of powerpoint Sep 17 01:33:14 crashanddie, if you wake up, check your mails, theres a package waiting Sep 17 01:33:15 it should be packing time for me Sep 17 01:34:24 have a safe journey timeless, ill see you there Sep 17 01:34:37 * timeless wonders if they provide name tags Sep 17 01:34:39 and thanks :) Sep 17 01:35:18 best had do - i want a collection Sep 17 01:45:12 sorry, my connection dropped, did my question make it through? Sep 17 01:58:02 Hey Sep 17 02:17:18 is it possible that the upnp plugin for canola is making it stay more active and consume more battery even in offline mode? Sep 17 02:42:24 cool new problem Sep 17 02:42:30 i'm not allowed to get sources for closed binaries :) Sep 17 02:42:44 go figure Sep 17 02:43:03 summatusmentis: i'm inside nokia's firewall Sep 17 02:43:21 oh, you normally have access? Sep 17 02:43:30 that's different Sep 17 02:43:33 well, um... depends on your definition of normally Sep 17 02:43:42 historically these packages were posted as binaries w/o sources Sep 17 02:43:52 now there are source packages and the build system builds them Sep 17 02:44:00 but it limits who's allowed to get the source packages Sep 17 02:45:56 I see Sep 17 02:46:12 it's actually progress Sep 17 02:47:11 you couldn't get the source before, you can't get the source now... how is that progress? Sep 17 02:47:28 at least the same system that builds most packages builds their packages Sep 17 02:47:38 which means there are fewer variables in the build system Sep 17 02:47:52 that's fair :) Sep 17 02:49:07 i should figure out what to do Sep 17 02:49:19 because right now those packages give 0 representation Sep 17 02:49:30 where it might be nice to at least ICK Sep 17 02:49:56 dpkg-source: error: cannot open .dsc file ./libgc_1:6.6-2osso2.dsc: No such file or directory Sep 17 02:50:04 "that's not right" :( Sep 17 02:53:15 odd, libncurces-dev isn't listed as a missing package here Sep 17 02:53:20 * timeless wonders if it was already fixed Sep 17 02:56:09 actually, i think it's about time for me to go to the airport **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 17 02:59:57 2008