**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 17 02:59:57 2008 Sep 17 03:38:35 ok, interesting failure case: Sep 17 03:38:37 rsync: open "/home/timeless/xref/autoconf/tests/acc.at" failed: Permission denied (13) Sep 17 03:39:07 the file is -r--r--r-- Sep 17 03:43:20 rsync is a lying scumbag:-) Sep 17 03:44:38 nah, it's doing what i told it to do Sep 17 03:44:44 the question then is... why did i tell it to do that? Sep 17 04:01:45 night Sep 17 04:14:31 * timeless cries Sep 17 04:15:47 * gregorovius hugs timeless Sep 17 04:15:58 poor dev... Sep 17 04:16:31 my script collected something like 150/900 items Sep 17 04:17:16 175/950 v 400 for the previous script Sep 17 04:17:31 so instead of doubling, i've lost more than 50% Sep 17 04:17:47 which way is the good way? Sep 17 04:17:56 950 is what i want Sep 17 04:17:56 (i've no idea what you're doing) Sep 17 04:18:05 although i'm not sure that's a correct number Sep 17 04:18:14 mostly bigger is better Sep 17 04:18:39 ups, gotta go Sep 17 04:18:49 good luck with those numbers growing =) Sep 17 04:19:00 i'm making something like http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/ Sep 17 04:19:07 except for something after chinook Sep 17 04:42:07 yawn Sep 17 04:52:02 hey, is it possible to replace the screen on an n810? Sep 17 04:52:14 like, when the lcd seems to have gotten cracked on the one you use? Sep 17 04:52:48 contact nokia support to get it fixed Sep 17 04:53:39 funny you should mention that...I just saw a place with n810 parts referenced on ITT. I can't vouch for them, though: http://www.mytrendyphone.com/shop/search-1.html?keyword=nokia%20n810 Sep 17 04:54:07 dunno how it got cracked but its right through the screen Sep 17 04:54:59 mm Sep 17 04:55:00 fun! Sep 17 05:47:31 * Stskeeps yawns loudly Sep 17 05:47:46 morning qwerty12 Sep 17 05:47:54 hi Stskeeps Sep 17 05:48:26 http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser/trunk/packages/non-free/cx3110x-umac-module/debian/rules <- worst hack ever Sep 17 05:48:45 a debian package that can be built without dpkg-buildpackage, just debian/rules binary binary-arch Sep 17 05:48:49 :P Sep 17 05:49:11 lol :P, dpkg-deb in a rules file... :P Sep 17 05:49:23 well that's actually indirectly what's done really Sep 17 05:49:32 dh_builddeb does similar things Sep 17 05:49:51 and a rules files is actually deep down just a makefile Sep 17 05:49:55 * qwerty12 also just realised that that isn't a debian rules file. /me wakes up :) Sep 17 05:50:19 Oh, wait, now I see the title. I'm wasted :P Sep 17 05:50:21 hehe Sep 17 05:50:42 im having breakfast right now too to wake up :P Sep 17 05:51:23 I'll have to resort to whacking myself with a bottle :P Sep 17 05:52:17 + I'm attempting to modify some code. If you have my "skills", not a good idea @ this time >.< Sep 17 05:52:43 but my build-on-tablet process is much saner now.. apt-get -d source , tar -zxf *.tar.gz, cd , debian/rules binary binary-arch Sep 17 05:52:50 and just requires make as an dependancy Sep 17 06:20:24 hello rm_you, you lil wardriver :-) Sep 17 06:23:06 hi Sep 17 06:43:36 lol Sep 17 06:43:48 heading to osim now >_> Sep 17 06:44:09 have fun Sep 17 06:44:16 report live ;) Sep 17 06:46:03 enjoy rm_you!! Sep 17 06:46:08 how do you like berlin thus far ? Sep 17 06:46:26 (probably drunk already ehh? :P) Sep 17 06:46:39 ari's talk is in 3 hrs Sep 17 07:17:32 morning all Sep 17 07:17:48 morning Sep 17 07:22:28 morning Sep 17 07:31:01 lo from OSiM Sep 17 07:32:32 hello jaffa. so you got wlan for live coverage? :) Sep 17 07:33:08 If you want to know, apparently, about the next Maemo device (maybe not called an "Internet Tablet"), look at the flood of patches sent last night to linux-kernel Sep 17 07:33:12 Jaffa: is there any streaming from the conference Sep 17 07:33:40 ? Sep 17 07:33:45 Not from OSiM, AFAIK Sep 17 07:34:14 I'll be typing here during Ari Jaaksi's keynote, though. Sep 17 07:35:22 Jaffa: ok, it is at 11:45, isn't it? Sep 17 07:36:00 Jaffa: so, maemo "next device" is more than a rumour? Sep 17 07:39:29 jsmanrique: 09:55 \âGMT - about 1.25 hours Sep 17 07:40:08 Hi ! Sep 17 07:40:31 hi Khertan Sep 17 07:40:53 Jaffa: we need a bingo card, similar to Apple's keynote ones :-D Sep 17 07:41:06 :) Sep 17 07:41:14 Jaffa: do you have a link of this commit web log ? Sep 17 07:41:32 Jaffa: yes, is there a link to that commits? Sep 17 07:41:53 no, not found it yet - bit tricky to pin it down on an $810 Sep 17 07:42:01 maybe fremantle will be presented today Sep 17 07:42:22 Should be Sep 17 07:42:33 http://source.mvista.com/git/gitweb.cgi?p=linux-omap-2.6.git;a=summary Sep 17 07:42:37 That's normally what I watch. Sep 17 07:42:58 woot Sep 17 07:43:06 Jaffa, that's one cool flood, especially the bits like "Fixed OMAP3 version check" and "debobs support for OMAP3430" Sep 17 07:43:07 thx GeneralAntilles Sep 17 07:43:09 at osim booth Sep 17 07:43:32 rm_you, get a demo going with VGB and a Wiimote. :D Sep 17 07:43:40 rm_you: with Reggie and rogers in Android keynote Sep 17 07:44:54 many OMAP3 fixes ... Sep 17 07:44:56 interesting Sep 17 07:45:10 Some of the audio layer may have been closed because of lots of stuff in there which'd make sense only in a certain context Sep 17 07:45:58 ARM: OMAP: Split omap2 cpu detection into 24xx and 34xx specific functions Sep 17 07:46:00 :) Sep 17 07:49:20 and some gumstix and beagleboard related stuff... Sep 17 07:50:22 Yeah, lotta that. Sep 17 07:50:32 Though most of that hacking isn't in mainline yet. Sep 17 07:51:55 http://source.mvista.com/git/gitweb.cgi?p=linux-omap-2.6.git;a=commit;h=de1121fdb899f762b9e717f44eaf3fae7c00cd3e Sep 17 07:52:12 SGX == PowerVR Sep 17 07:53:41 Rumour here so far: including some phone component, massively more powerful, 32GB storage, massively multimedia oriented, not called an "Internet Tablet" Sep 17 07:53:56 Phone? Sep 17 07:53:59 :shudder: Sep 17 07:54:18 Jaffa: Maemo phone? Sep 17 07:54:31 GeneralAntilles, remember wwan != phone Sep 17 07:54:49 johnx_, anything cellular is bad news in my book. Sep 17 07:54:54 As long aas it's not more expensive, more restrictive and still has BT connection as Tier1 Sep 17 07:55:18 and a kb Sep 17 07:55:36 agreed Sep 17 07:55:47 I'd rather not have the keyboard, myself. ;) Sep 17 07:56:00 tsk, shush you Sep 17 07:56:25 ~flashing Sep 17 07:56:26 somebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 17 07:56:28 Jaffa: thank you for the update! Sep 17 07:57:01 will get my laptop out for the Maemo keynote fror faster typing Sep 17 07:57:14 Jaffa, watch, it'll be a UMPC with an Atom. Sep 17 07:58:00 heh Sep 17 07:58:00 GeneralAntilles, with an n96 glued to the back :D Sep 17 07:58:06 Ha Sep 17 07:58:09 "component" Sep 17 07:58:17 "That'll be $2499 please" Sep 17 07:58:55 johnx_, they'll provide a little 3-inch USB dongle for the N96 for faster tethering. ;) Sep 17 07:59:33 rm_you, have you converted all the demo units to only demo Advanced Backlight yet? Sep 17 07:59:58 no, please, keep the price low :-D Sep 17 08:00:13 * Jaffa now has to associate rm_you nick, name and face Sep 17 08:00:25 Jaffa, go hit him with a stick for me. Sep 17 08:00:32 is there any info from nokia related sources about new devices? Sep 17 08:00:37 maybe, a good camera? Sep 17 08:00:41 jsmanrique, no. Sep 17 08:00:47 "Nokia does not announce future hardware plans" Sep 17 08:01:05 Two hours (sorry, got time wrong) Sep 17 08:01:07 Basically, like got a lot of incredibly irritating cheeky laughter from a rat in Texas Sep 17 08:01:10 jsmanrique, just lurk and watch or dig through the logs for the channel Sep 17 08:01:28 and a lot of OMAP3-related commits to linux-omap from @nokia folks. Sep 17 08:01:43 s/Basically, like/Basically, we've/ Sep 17 08:01:56 anything popping up on freedesktop stuff? (xorg) Sep 17 08:02:16 Stskeeps, I suppose it's a possibility, I haven't been paying attention, though. Sep 17 08:02:23 Oh, other rumour: no new device before xmas Sep 17 08:02:27 lol Sep 17 08:02:45 Jaffa: where are you? still android? Sep 17 08:02:46 Jaffa, that one makes sense. Sep 17 08:03:04 Jaffa: yes, that would make sense Sep 17 08:03:13 OMAP3430 ES3.0 isn't shipping 'til November Sep 17 08:03:13 rm_you: at front, now T-Mobile talking about how cool open stuff is Sep 17 08:03:24 and they've got to actually get it into the devices before they ship. Sep 17 08:03:28 new "devices" should come with "better" camera... Sep 17 08:03:45 Plus, everybody and his brother is going to be clamoring for the new OMAP3 silicon once its out. Sep 17 08:04:15 so, first there should be a new "OS" update Sep 17 08:04:49 Fremantle won't be released without device, IMHO Sep 17 08:04:54 There'll be Fremantle alphas and betas in some form Sep 17 08:05:03 but I'm with Jaffa, it wont be coming without a new tablet. Sep 17 08:05:38 gonna have to move to ad-hoc to set up the mediaserv demo, so i'll have to drop offline Sep 17 08:06:04 this network is blocking like all traffic Sep 17 08:06:43 Oooh, there's going to be a mediaserv demo on the stand? Sep 17 08:06:58 i told you i would ;P Sep 17 08:07:14 * Jaffa == proud (had forgotten ;-)) Sep 17 08:07:15 i seem to remember asking you if i could do it ;p Sep 17 08:07:31 I remember now Sep 17 08:07:37 anyway, dropping off to get that set up Sep 17 08:08:01 rm_you, good luck! Sep 17 08:08:06 * johnx_ heads off to work Sep 17 08:08:17 why should fremantle come with a new device? Sep 17 08:08:29 Jaffa: drop by when you can :P Sep 17 08:08:33 cos all new OS releases have Sep 17 08:08:47 rm_you: will do (got my lanyard already) Sep 17 08:08:47 it works (or should work) in actual N810 devices (so, N800 too?) Sep 17 08:09:24 Jaffa: yes, that's true Sep 17 08:09:43 bigger marketing splash Sep 17 08:10:21 anyone knows if OH people (Mathew Allum i.e.) will be in Maemo Summit? Sep 17 08:10:52 how has Intel buying OH has affected that? Sep 17 08:11:02 dunno Sep 17 08:11:12 wasn't there a list of attendees somewhere? Sep 17 08:11:30 on the main summit (non wiki) page Sep 17 08:11:50 http://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_summit-001/ Sep 17 08:12:03 Matthew Allum is there Sep 17 08:12:10 yes, I know Sep 17 08:12:58 just asking for an update, nothing else... Sep 17 08:13:15 I'm sure he'll be asked Sep 17 08:13:17 someone whack him for _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_INPUT, as that makes most on screen input be monopolized to matchbox-wm Sep 17 08:13:21 :P Sep 17 08:14:37 http://tabletblog.com/2008/09/live-from-osim-last-internet-tablet.html Sep 17 08:15:22 mgedmin, any chance you could push XChat to Extras and just not the language packs for now? Sep 17 08:15:26 when is the talk btw? (in how many hours) Sep 17 08:15:35 GeneralAntilles: promote, you mean? Sep 17 08:15:42 sounds like a great idea! Sep 17 08:15:47 um, is that possible? Sep 17 08:15:57 does promotion work on the binary package level, or the source package level? Sep 17 08:16:04 Stskeeps: 1.5. Stay here for live updates Sep 17 08:16:12 mgedmin: binary Sep 17 08:16:19 meh, means i'll have to skip lunch. hunger strike for new tablet Sep 17 08:16:19 :P Sep 17 08:16:20 yay Sep 17 08:16:31 (.. or i could bring my tablet, hmm..) Sep 17 08:16:38 (well, both - no recompilation) Sep 17 08:16:38 "ending in name"? Sep 17 08:17:06 "Interrnet Tablet" possibly being dropped Sep 17 08:17:08 it'll now be Token Ring Tablet Sep 17 08:17:12 mgedmin, push, promote, same thing. ;) Sep 17 08:17:15 does anyone knows qik service? Sep 17 08:18:03 *sigh* maemo still slow as molasses Sep 17 08:18:03 if someone is at OSiM with a mobile phone with video camera and wlan, perhaps someone could publish a stream Sep 17 08:18:08 and I don't even know what molasses are Sep 17 08:18:40 GeneralAntilles: promoted Sep 17 08:19:10 Woo Sep 17 08:22:25 tick-tick-tick-tick Sep 17 08:23:19 Interesting that the latest round of DSLRs have 720p Sep 17 08:24:47 and a 14.7 megapixel consumer cam for $400 Sep 17 08:24:51 Hellooooo, noise city. Sep 17 08:25:38 there should be a hunt for people with obvious unreleased tablets on OSiM ;) Sep 17 08:25:48 Ha Sep 17 08:26:19 There's a "preview" presentation during the Summit from an @nokia person Sep 17 08:26:32 We've decided that lcuk is going to mug him for whatever tablet he's got. Sep 17 08:30:22 the standard trick is to listen to bt device names Sep 17 08:31:38 assuming they're discoverable Sep 17 08:31:47 sounds nice Sep 17 08:31:54 * Pavlov should have gone Sep 17 08:33:26 Ha, stupid people moaning about MicroUSB being less durable than MiniUSB. Sep 17 08:34:20 wait another standard? Sep 17 08:34:30 keesj: yeah, especially since the tablets are called Nokiasomething Sep 17 08:34:36 It's smaller and more durable than MiniUSB Sep 17 08:34:45 Alystair, the N810 uses it. Sep 17 08:34:54 http://www.hellomotoq.com/forums/media/1648/microusb.jpg Sep 17 08:34:57 MicroUSB is on the right. Sep 17 08:35:02 oh wow Sep 17 08:35:06 cool. Sep 17 08:35:29 it IS a universal standard right? not another phone-charger like situation :) Sep 17 08:35:40 It's a USB standard, yes. Sep 17 08:35:52 Then I'm all for it! Hooray. Sep 17 08:36:34 The only real problem with it is that not many devices use it yet Sep 17 08:36:38 so it's hard to find cables. Sep 17 08:37:12 Whereas I've got about 6 MiniUSB cables just lying around behind my desk here. ;) Sep 17 08:38:58 afaiu all new phones use it Sep 17 08:39:02 or at least are supposed to Sep 17 08:45:05 1 hour to go Sep 17 08:50:24 * Jaffa just saw someone in the audience with a maemo.org lanyard put away a Psion 5mx. Sep 17 08:50:37 Ticks all my boxes ;-) Sep 17 08:51:20 Hehe Sep 17 08:52:15 i had an old ass psion organizer.. i wonder where i left it Sep 17 08:52:27 it worked still after what 10 years though Sep 17 08:52:44 Newton was my thing Sep 17 08:53:06 i always kinda wanted a newton in my childhood :P Sep 17 08:53:44 Ditto. Sep 17 08:56:49 How's osim so far? Sep 17 08:57:00 The Newton is pretty awesome. Sep 17 08:57:04 And is there any plan for a pre-summit gathering? Sep 17 08:57:11 Tomorrow night? Sep 17 09:04:44 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=224533 Sep 17 09:04:48 That guy's in for a fun time. Sep 17 09:06:21 Rahhh ! I hate google docs ! Sep 17 09:06:42 50 minutes Sep 17 09:07:42 what'd google docs do to you? Sep 17 09:08:07 Killed his family, clearly. Sep 17 09:08:20 I meant besides that. Sep 17 09:08:21 it have just kill my presentation Sep 17 09:08:32 for py2deb Sep 17 09:08:35 Ugh. Sep 17 09:08:50 when are you presenting? Sep 17 09:08:52 the pdf generated isn't the same as what i can see in google docs Sep 17 09:09:14 sneakret: i ll present a new version of mCalendar and py2deb in light session Sep 17 09:09:29 New mCalendar? Cool! Sep 17 09:09:45 i don't speak english well enough to made an interesting presentation ... Sep 17 09:09:53 more than 10 min Sep 17 09:10:35 rahah .... now google docs insert interline between line ! Sep 17 09:10:38 Khertan, just give it in French! Sep 17 09:11:29 what are you people ticking to? Sep 17 09:11:31 Jaffa, did you see my email on -community? Sep 17 09:11:43 yacoob, Ari's presentation at OSiM World. Sep 17 09:13:14 GeneralAntilles: yep but i want that there is more than 1 people at my presentations : Sep 17 09:13:15 :) Sep 17 09:13:41 oups ... google docs now is freeze Sep 17 09:13:42 lol Sep 17 09:13:44 Alternatively, give it in English, but pad it out with interspersed violent cursing in French. Sep 17 09:14:29 GeneralAntilles: for a lightning session i ll be able to do it in english Sep 17 09:14:38 hmm, how can I find out which repo is blocking my update? Sep 17 09:14:54 Check the log? Sep 17 09:15:02 and by "update" you mean? Sep 17 09:15:05 Refreshing the repos? Sep 17 09:15:06 right now, updating seems to have hanged at 1,67 MB (yes, I don't do that often) Sep 17 09:15:09 yes Sep 17 09:15:13 where is the log? Sep 17 09:15:27 In the menu in Application manager Sep 17 09:15:29 Logs... Sep 17 09:15:36 Alternatively, just run an apt-get update as root in XTerm Sep 17 09:15:54 i'll do that then Sep 17 09:17:30 garage.maemo.org is down or what? Sep 17 09:18:06 oh maemo.org, you Sep 17 09:18:17 down again??? Sep 17 09:18:52 * mgedmin shakes his head Sep 17 09:19:25 I'm really looking forward to 2 days of irl lurking ;) Sep 17 09:19:28 AStorm, fwiw, the maemo.org repos are working fine here. Sep 17 09:19:37 yes, they are Sep 17 09:19:47 modest.garage.maemo.org is not etc. Sep 17 09:19:50 I have to fix these Sep 17 09:20:01 where are they now? Sep 17 09:20:13 Diablo? Sep 17 09:20:18 I'd just delete it. Sep 17 09:20:22 It's not really usable in Diablo. Sep 17 09:20:24 chinook Sep 17 09:20:40 Oh, time to upgrade. :P Sep 17 09:20:50 I'm waiting till Canola works well with Diablo Sep 17 09:21:00 It doesn't? Sep 17 09:21:02 and, i'd have to redo all my hacks Sep 17 09:21:06 this is work ;P Sep 17 09:21:47 http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/non-free/c/ Sep 17 09:22:02 Planet seems to be down. Sep 17 09:22:42 hopefully, there is lms-ogg Sep 17 09:23:23 NO. there's none Sep 17 09:23:29 they should be kicked really hard Sep 17 09:23:30 kulve just updated ogg-support for Diablo. Sep 17 09:23:38 what is the use of ogg-support, if there's no lms-ogg? Sep 17 09:23:46 canola won't see the files Sep 17 09:24:04 Go prod #canola Sep 17 09:25:30 done Sep 17 09:25:39 ogg-support tries to add ogg-support for n8x0. Not for some special 3rd party app, like Canola Sep 17 09:26:12 AStorm, now just wait for it not to be 5 AM in Brazil. ;) Sep 17 09:26:43 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/ogg/ - is this down? :P Sep 17 09:28:56 AStorm, complete maemo.org is down or very overloaded ;) Sep 17 09:30:09 heh Sep 17 09:30:52 /., dug and buried? ;) Sep 17 09:36:07 back. keynote in like 20 min >_> Sep 17 09:37:00 We demand a live video feed. Sep 17 09:37:03 Figure it out. Sep 17 09:37:06 rm_you, madness :D Sep 17 09:37:32 I'm here Sep 17 09:37:34 some live typing in here whatever Ari says would be okay for me too :P Sep 17 09:37:50 I'll summarize the interesting bits Sep 17 09:38:06 brontide, OK, we've got you and Jaffa. Sep 17 09:38:10 Your summaries will be scored. Sep 17 09:38:12 when he is talking? Sep 17 09:38:21 The winner wont receive 50 lashings. Sep 17 09:38:33 trenka, just under 20 minutes. Sep 17 09:38:38 thanks Sep 17 09:38:55 * Jaffa is in place. Laptop connected. Sep 17 09:38:58 GeneralAntilles, maybe give the winner o karma point ;p Sep 17 09:38:58 http://twemes.com/OSiM is emptyish Sep 17 09:39:02 Running later. Sep 17 09:39:17 s/r// Sep 17 09:39:18 Jaffa meant: Running late. Sep 17 09:39:23 mgedmin, Twitter sucks Sep 17 09:39:32 11:30 talk runs for 25 mins and hasn't started yet. Sep 17 09:39:34 * brontide is going on 24 hours with no sleep, so he might nod off if it's not too exciting Sep 17 09:40:00 brontide: you in the room? Sep 17 09:40:23 * robink upgraded his kernel modules and now modules.dep is missing and module-init-tools conflicts with BusyBox. Sep 17 09:40:34 * Jaffa is down at the front, on the right (was on the left before) Sep 17 09:40:34 :( Sep 17 09:41:10 yes, mac striped shirt Sep 17 09:41:23 is there much space? i am still at the booth. need to head over there Sep 17 09:41:40 rm_you: loads. Sep 17 09:41:43 k Sep 17 09:41:48 lappy, or NIT? Sep 17 09:42:03 lappy Sep 17 09:42:09 Oh, the keynote is about to begin. Sep 17 09:42:10 Hello, im at the conference too! Sep 17 09:44:18 have i missed the keynote? Sep 17 09:44:27 No Sep 17 09:44:28 hmm Sep 17 09:44:52 bit better Sep 17 09:44:55 thanks Steve_B Sep 17 09:45:00 * brontide found him Sep 17 09:45:00 lcuk: ! Sep 17 09:45:19 rm_you !! Sep 17 09:45:32 * lcuk_work is gonna see you in a ocuple of days Sep 17 09:45:40 Thats ok lcuk, what did i do? Sep 17 09:45:43 * lcuk_work makes typos in RL as well Sep 17 09:45:49 you answered my question Sep 17 09:45:50 lol Sep 17 09:45:56 i came in with a stupid nick Sep 17 09:46:12 Ahh ok :-) Sep 17 09:46:34 Im at the conference, but unable to go to the keynote Sep 17 09:46:56 rm_you: can you get ari to postpone the keynote - i want liqbase to come first before the rug is swept from under it Sep 17 09:49:24 Did you get a hold of him lcuk? Sep 17 09:50:18 Lights are dimming Sep 17 09:50:25 hold of who? - cos im in england and hes in germany Sep 17 09:50:25 ooooh jaffa Sep 17 09:50:48 This is Azingo first; 25 mins - unless they've changed the agenda due to the late running Sep 17 09:50:54 Rm_you, on here i mean Sep 17 09:50:56 "this is kermit the frog reporting live from OSiM Sep 17 09:50:57 gotta sign up for the pub quiz Sep 17 09:51:00 Nope: this is Azingo Sep 17 09:52:42 You'll all have to be patient. ;-p Sep 17 09:52:43 "last internet tablet" == phone with maemo? Sep 17 09:52:49 wtf. ok we're sstanding in the back... Sep 17 09:52:58 or rather, not ==, but => Sep 17 09:53:16 rm_you: you are still closer than most of us Sep 17 09:54:24 k well, azingo it is Sep 17 09:55:31 lcuk_work: you're coming over in about 20 mins, tho? Sep 17 09:55:50 no, i set off at 6am UK time tomorrow morning Sep 17 09:55:56 Ouch Sep 17 09:56:05 not as early as last time Sep 17 09:56:08 Ah, of course. Sep 17 09:56:17 i was at the airport by 3am then Sep 17 09:56:34 * Jaffa is half sleep himself ;-) Sep 17 09:56:36 For an event starting at 9am? Sep 17 09:57:12 no, im arriving at 11:30ish thursday morning for a 9am thing on friday.. Sep 17 09:57:22 Maemo summit Sep 17 09:57:27 _o/ Sep 17 09:57:38 \o_ Sep 17 09:58:28 Maemo's jist got its first namecheck - in a non-Nokia presentation Sep 17 09:59:09 What does Azingo do, anyway? Sep 17 09:59:22 I'm still trying to figure that out Sep 17 09:59:25 mobile ui stack ontop of linux Sep 17 09:59:35 http://www.azingo.com/products.shtml Sep 17 09:59:42 "Azingo, formerly Celunite, provides next-generation mobile phone software that delivers Internet-enabled, rich user experiences to entertain, inform and enrich the lives of individuals worldwide. Azingo uniquely offers a one-stop solution for commercializing new mobile phone products that significantly reduce development costs and shorten delivery schedules for silicon vendors, handset manufacturers and operators." Sep 17 10:00:08 closed source icing ontop of our cake? Sep 17 10:00:28 Sounds like marketing speak! Sep 17 10:00:29 At least they're LiMo-based. Sep 17 10:00:41 http://linuxdevices.com/files/misc/azingo_mobile_screenshots.jpg Sep 17 10:00:48 i should never have listened to GLaDOS, the cake was a lie Sep 17 10:01:26 lol Sep 17 10:03:34 What is liqbase? Sep 17 10:03:57 liqbase is shiny Sep 17 10:04:05 Steve_B, http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=liqbase&search_type=&aq=f Sep 17 10:04:08 liqbase is shiny++ Sep 17 10:04:14 lcuk_work, it's too bad you don't have a URL to hand out. ;) Sep 17 10:04:31 im at work Sep 17 10:04:34 normally i have :P Sep 17 10:04:43 but you mean a proper one Sep 17 10:04:47 and by URL, I mean a website for liqbase to advertise at the summit. :P Sep 17 10:04:52 i was thinking of giving you copy tonight but i havent got time Sep 17 10:05:00 Im on my n810 so cant click the link Sep 17 10:05:12 it was all in my head - i only finished principle code at about 2am :S Sep 17 10:05:19 tap n hold Sep 17 10:05:29 or search youtube for it Sep 17 10:05:35 Steve_B, why can't you click the link? Sep 17 10:05:37 It wont open, not enough memory Sep 17 10:05:37 what's the screen size of Archos? Sep 17 10:05:42 lol? Sep 17 10:07:02 * brontide is starting to doze off Sep 17 10:07:05 Italodance, which archos? Sep 17 10:07:09 has crashanddie been on this mornin? Sep 17 10:07:14 lol GW Bush jokes Sep 17 10:08:00 johnx......it was the same IT! Sep 17 10:08:32 Typing on the n810 is painful Sep 17 10:09:06 try tapping on thf Sep 17 10:09:16 Thf? Sep 17 10:09:21 slightly, yes Sep 17 10:09:33 ...screen of an n800. way more painful Sep 17 10:09:51 i could whip out my bluetooth keyboard ;p Sep 17 10:09:59 Ahh thats probably true Sep 17 10:10:11 ah yeah. sorry n800 screen is me lol Sep 17 10:10:21 so, where are the pictures and videos? :) Sep 17 10:10:24 it is kinda blah Sep 17 10:10:41 !OI! rm_you, you will get arrested if you whip yours out - especially at a big conference Sep 17 10:10:41 lcuk_work: Error: "OI!" is not a valid command. Sep 17 10:10:49 * johnx kills time at work waiting for something to do. Sep 17 10:10:52 * lcuk_work laffs at silly povbot Sep 17 10:10:55 jott: err i can post a horrible n800 cam pic :p Sep 17 10:11:02 I'm wondering why he is telling us to use standard html/js ... aren't they selling something? Sep 17 10:11:08 lol lcuk Sep 17 10:11:39 S'too bad somebody didn't do a ustream feed. Sep 17 10:11:40 brontide: for a mobile device, isnt that the point: you CAN use standard if you use their framework Sep 17 10:12:00 i just paid 3,60€ for a tiny glass of coke >_< Sep 17 10:12:00 rm_you is streaming into a plantpot in the corner of the room Sep 17 10:12:18 EUROPEAN conference food prices? Sep 17 10:12:19 Ouch Sep 17 10:12:20 and how much for the flight from america and conference particiaption? Sep 17 10:12:47 lol i didn't pay that tho Sep 17 10:12:52 :P Sep 17 10:13:11 so 3.60 is very cheap for an intercontinental flight+ticket :D Sep 17 10:13:13 or any offline tech + fast js Sep 17 10:14:02 rm_you: Ouch Sep 17 10:14:04 Azingo is wrapping up Sep 17 10:14:13 * brontide still doesn't get azingo's talk Sep 17 10:14:17 ARI JAAKSI KEYNOTE TO START SHORTLY. Sep 17 10:14:25 lol i guess >_> Sep 17 10:14:33 ooo he's wrapping up. now nokia? Sep 17 10:14:34 I hope the prices on the summit are better.. ;) Sep 17 10:14:39 who is this Ari guy anyways ;-) Sep 17 10:14:47 brontide: it *seems* to boil down to a wWebKit renderer and some and some dev tooling Sep 17 10:16:10 hopefully all this talk of flasg based stuff will lead to us getting better / faster linux flash support Sep 17 10:16:33 *flash Sep 17 10:16:49 http://www.azingo.com/pr080917_web20_apps.shtml and http://www.azingo.com/management.shtml :) Sep 17 10:17:45 First? Sep 17 10:17:45 Ha Sep 17 10:19:13 its another "we cant do full youtube live in browser" system: "Azingo’s Web 2.0 video application enables users to interact with videos" Sep 17 10:19:18 they do say *fast* Sep 17 10:19:55 * brontide needs sleep first / fast same diff Sep 17 10:20:12 heh Sep 17 10:20:56 Azingo guy has finished. Sep 17 10:21:02 woo Sep 17 10:21:15 Ari is taking the stage. Sep 17 10:21:16 ari going on Sep 17 10:21:39 He looks like a short Arnie Sep 17 10:21:57 slide: Kids with kites Sep 17 10:22:00 so who cat get to his pockets and runs fast? :) Sep 17 10:22:19 Operating in two diffeerent worlds: suits & t-shirts. Very fruitful collaboration Sep 17 10:22:23 lcuk_work's not there yet, jott. :( Sep 17 10:22:46 * StsN800 is in lecture with the n800 as a tiny display like when watching games on the go Sep 17 10:22:47 hey, im not a scally Sep 17 10:22:52 70% of open source development is corporate sponsored Sep 17 10:23:01 (source: FSF) Sep 17 10:23:03 * lcuk_work isnt sponsored Sep 17 10:23:29 Says no product announcement today Sep 17 10:23:35 awwwwww no product announcing Sep 17 10:23:41 Boo him off the stage. Sep 17 10:23:48 Thats unfortunate Sep 17 10:23:51 And he's not going to educate any communiteies (/. overreaction reference) Sep 17 10:24:03 80% of device s/w is open source now Sep 17 10:24:04 hmm, is there a browser plugin that reroutes flash videos to mplayer for full screen playback? Sep 17 10:24:14 Maemo is "designed for Internet-optimized multimedia computers" Sep 17 10:24:34 hehe Sep 17 10:24:40 t_s_o: i would love to make a proper binary plugin for our browser to do just that Sep 17 10:25:27 something that sits between the browser and the actual flash plugin - something we can click to activate, something we can send to mplayer with - something SIMPLE and would make stuff fast. but ive got no time or knowledge of how to do it ;) Sep 17 10:26:20 Choice of desktop widget sets directed products they released using Maemo Sep 17 10:26:23 * lcuk_work might use the internet on tablet more if that was the case Sep 17 10:26:47 i know there is a plugin to block the flash from automatic play, but its been hit or miss for me in the past. and i keep suspecting that it loads the flash in the background, something that to me is unacceptable on a mobile connection Sep 17 10:26:58 jaffa - have a vodka shot everytime you hear the words "QT" Sep 17 10:27:12 s/QT/Qt/ Sep 17 10:27:19 we would all be quite sober at this point Sep 17 10:27:27 t_s_o: that doesnt block cleanly, it sits inside the javascript on a page and isnt a very clean solution Sep 17 10:27:34 t_s_o: you can download .flv's, then play them with whatever player you like? Sep 17 10:27:39 give it time brontide Sep 17 10:27:55 * aquatix has a bash script to download youtube movies Sep 17 10:28:01 3 different platofmrs: S30/40 - mass market phones; Symbian-based phones - smartphones; Maemo platform rooted in Linux, truley community related. Sep 17 10:28:27 aquatix: and other random flv's? youtube i can do with mytube already... Sep 17 10:28:28 myTube works well for doing that with youtube vids Sep 17 10:28:30 there's also some firefox plugins to download flash movie material, so might be portable to microb Sep 17 10:29:28 thing is for me that the only use i have for flash on the tablet is the odd video, so a plugin that could detect those and grab them for playback using mplayer or whatever would work much better then the current solution imo Sep 17 10:29:48 UI is closed part - their area of differentiation Sep 17 10:29:56 4 generations of Maemo Sep 17 10:29:59 but then maybe i should just grab a archos 5g when it becomes available :P Sep 17 10:30:04 Now working on 5th generation Sep 17 10:30:10 Showing you some of the highlights Sep 17 10:30:25 omg cellular Sep 17 10:30:27 Online anywhere with cellular connectivity over HSPA Sep 17 10:30:29 OMAP 3 processor. HD camera Sep 17 10:30:54 Broadband vision of devices. Sep 17 10:31:01 there goes the neighborhood Sep 17 10:31:14 ! Sep 17 10:31:15 Bleh Sep 17 10:31:16 3g Sep 17 10:31:19 * GeneralAntilles kills self. Sep 17 10:31:20 lol crizazy Sep 17 10:31:20 GeneralAntilles, looks like you lose ;p Sep 17 10:31:25 Bottom half of slide is cut off Sep 17 10:31:59 OMAP3 will give "huge boost in performance" Sep 17 10:32:00 omap3 will be sweet but isn't surprising Sep 17 10:32:08 Ari is talking. Sep 17 10:32:15 HD camera is gonna be noisy as hell. Sep 17 10:32:16 Accelerated graphics and so forth. Sep 17 10:32:25 cellular surprises me a little bit but makes sense Sep 17 10:32:37 just hope the price dont spike to much... Sep 17 10:32:45 I dont like the idea of cellular access Sep 17 10:32:46 (indeed) Sep 17 10:32:56 t_s_o, I'm not sure how it can't. Sep 17 10:32:57 Ah, Jaffa's already here. :) Sep 17 10:33:02 :) Sep 17 10:33:03 I really don't want to pay N96 prices. :\ Sep 17 10:33:11 are these not powerpoint but physical slides?! Sep 17 10:33:12 GeneralAntilles: indeed Sep 17 10:33:16 timsamoff, and rm_you and brontide. ;) Sep 17 10:33:17 neither do I Sep 17 10:33:18 hd just means 1280*720 or highr... Sep 17 10:33:19 * aquatix demands a gsm chip! Sep 17 10:33:26 Nokia is now gold sponsor of the Linux Foundation Sep 17 10:33:27 Ha! Cool. Sep 17 10:33:33 johnx, yeah, but HD isn't stills Sep 17 10:33:34 i got my N800 nice and cheap used. but if we are looking at used HTC phone prices then no go what so ever Sep 17 10:33:38 It's video, which == noise. Sep 17 10:33:39 Nokia contributed code today for 3G/HSPA cellular connectivity for oMAP3 to Linux kernel Sep 17 10:34:04 t_s_o: heh, i prefer having a tablet alongside my cellphone too Sep 17 10:34:54 I prefer having a tablet with a charged battery. :( Sep 17 10:35:00 ^ Sep 17 10:35:11 lol tim Sep 17 10:35:17 Besides, HSDPA is gonna be ridiculously expensive in the states. Sep 17 10:35:19 truth Sep 17 10:35:22 $50 at least. Sep 17 10:35:28 (So, cellular layer open?) Sep 17 10:35:31 also truth Sep 17 10:35:36 I can't afford a 2nd cable bill. Sep 17 10:35:43 GeneralAntilles: so like 5 euros? Sep 17 10:35:44 (gone very laggy) Sep 17 10:35:46 :D Sep 17 10:35:57 heh qt is in the maemo circle Sep 17 10:36:19 And SQLite Sep 17 10:36:20 rm_you: i didnt expect anything else Sep 17 10:36:29 ^ Sep 17 10:36:33 Yeah, like, duh. :P Sep 17 10:36:43 well yeah, been using sqlite for a while no? Sep 17 10:37:06 t_s_o: yeah... Sep 17 10:38:11 (lots of projects have - does media-scanner us it?) Sep 17 10:38:11 Nokia still struggling with working in the open. Still working on it Sep 17 10:38:42 Always will unless Maemo spun off. Sep 17 10:38:50 More on Maemo 5 in the Maemo DevSesh Sep 17 10:38:58 hrm Sep 17 10:39:19 Plug for Maemo Summit Sep 17 10:39:24 Thats the bit im allowed in, hooray! Sep 17 10:39:30 He's forgotten where it is Sep 17 10:39:31 nobody is forcing you to use cellular. Device will be more expensice though Sep 17 10:39:33 me too :) woo Sep 17 10:39:51 mikkov_, if it's in the device, I'm paying for it. Sep 17 10:40:03 Now questions. Sep 17 10:40:04 FCC certifications, hardware, software support Sep 17 10:40:04 Jott, are you in berlin? Sep 17 10:40:07 those things all cost money. Sep 17 10:40:09 Steve_B: yes. Sep 17 10:40:15 Same Sep 17 10:40:25 morning Sep 17 10:40:38 Q: Will Nokia have longterm committment to Maemo in the longterm, with the Qt purchase & Symbian opening. Is there a longterm roadmap? Sep 17 10:40:40 A: Yes. Sep 17 10:40:46 LOL Sep 17 10:40:54 GeneralAntilles: yeah, but no monthly bills if you don't want them Sep 17 10:40:57 someone has e1000e network card? Sep 17 10:40:58 Q: 3G & HSPA also imply voice? Or just data? Sep 17 10:41:00 yes, but you have to pay $140 extra to get it Sep 17 10:41:03 A: Today just talking about data. Sep 17 10:41:09 mikkov_, don't care, I don't want to pay for cellular. Period. Sep 17 10:41:15 timsamoff, huge thanks for the logo btw Sep 17 10:41:20 There will be a new generation, let's see what they bring. Sep 17 10:41:32 This is a headsup today, not an announcement. Sep 17 10:41:37 GeneralAntilles: chill, see what they offer before you bitch - its new and improved Sep 17 10:41:45 Talking about releasing early & showing the direction. Sep 17 10:41:47 Unless they are really competitive on price, this will be a non-starter for me Sep 17 10:41:51 He finally seems to get it. Sep 17 10:42:12 ^( ) Sep 17 10:42:21 Telling you as soon as possible about some of the developments. Sep 17 10:42:26 lcuk_work, HSDPA is bad news in my book. Period. :) Sep 17 10:42:40 * jott hopes for a dev program :) Sep 17 10:42:51 Q: When will th efifth generation come out? What about the slow microb browser? Sep 17 10:42:58 GeneralAntilles: otoh, nokia makes loads of cellphones, maybe hsdpa chip is cheap for them Sep 17 10:43:08 4 Real. Sep 17 10:43:12 Unless they release two versions, one with and one without? Sep 17 10:43:14 aquatix, hardware cost is just a small portion of the total cost. Sep 17 10:43:20 A: When the time is right, we will tell you. I recognise the performance issues, we are working on it. I'm sure they'll be improved signifcantly. Sep 17 10:43:23 lol complaining about microb.fennec is faster? not imo >_> Sep 17 10:43:30 GeneralAntilles: so, what's your problem? Sep 17 10:43:36 FCC? Sep 17 10:43:42 aquatix, FCC, software support Sep 17 10:43:43 Jaffa: nice answer... Sep 17 10:43:45 All those things cost money. Sep 17 10:43:46 GeneralAntilles: k Sep 17 10:43:49 Q: (gnuite) Will Maemo 5 be compatible with existing devices? Sep 17 10:43:56 Which means I'm going to be paying for it in the cost of the hardware. Sep 17 10:44:02 A: THinking about how to do it. Don't know yet. Sep 17 10:44:07 New hardware may mean new difficulties. Sep 17 10:44:10 Jaffa: :-D Sep 17 10:44:11 GeneralAntilles: fair enough :/ Sep 17 10:44:13 = new hacker edition Sep 17 10:44:14 Good Q, though. Sep 17 10:44:19 Better be. Sep 17 10:44:20 Jaffa: and that's even better Sep 17 10:44:28 brontide: depending on the ui expected it may be a non starter Sep 17 10:44:30 Q: Are there any plans fordiversifying Maemo? Sep 17 10:44:31 They promised at least 2 rounds of support for each tablet. Sep 17 10:44:41 lol etting short bursts of irc. connection seems to have issues Sep 17 10:44:49 maemo for a cellphone would be interesting Sep 17 10:44:58 from what i recall nokia are fullsteam forward and get adequate performance from new devices without caring about old Sep 17 10:45:01 A: No current intentions for promoting to other vendors. Sep 17 10:45:27 GA, they already provides 2 rounds of support Sep 17 10:45:37 * lcuk_work thinks building from the ground up will allow all devices to work Sep 17 10:45:49 Q: Various logos - including Qt. What's the role of Trolltech within the Maemo story? Sep 17 10:46:09 brontide, the N810 got 1. Sep 17 10:46:28 depends on how you read Diablo Sep 17 10:46:34 A;: Currently gtk based. Will also support Qt in future. Eventually, are we going to eventually find some technical merge? We have some plans; but (it sounds like still up in the air) Sep 17 10:46:35 It's not a round. Sep 17 10:46:42 It's a minor update. Sep 17 10:46:45 "Feature Upgrade" Sep 17 10:46:48 Diablo is just enabling incremental updates Sep 17 10:47:00 Support round is OS2005, OS2006, OS2007, OS2008, etc. Sep 17 10:47:09 GeneralAntilles: I reckon they'll break the promise or hamstring the back support. Sep 17 10:47:14 That's it. It's over. Sep 17 10:47:32 KEYNOTE ENDED. NO NEW DEVICE ANNOUNCED. MAEMO 5 WILL SUPPORT HSPA AND HD CAMERA AND OMAP3. Sep 17 10:47:36 now mug him and get hands on the test machine you know he has in his pocket Sep 17 10:47:48 Bleh Sep 17 10:47:50 :D Sep 17 10:48:00 what is this? Sep 17 10:48:00 what do you expected? Sep 17 10:48:04 * GeneralAntilles is not super thrilled. Sep 17 10:48:11 no device was expected Sep 17 10:48:16 Not cellular garbage. Sep 17 10:48:16 i think ari just read the n900 thread Sep 17 10:48:18 * Jaffa is worried about price Sep 17 10:48:35 nahhh jaffa - look at the pandora - they are talking that spec hardware Sep 17 10:48:43 it gets one year to get Carl Zeiss certification Sep 17 10:48:46 thats what £200? Sep 17 10:48:46 lcuk_work, they don't have cellular Sep 17 10:48:48 Device discount program? Sep 17 10:48:52 GeneralAntilles, in .dk 3g no-voice is actually decently priced Sep 17 10:48:57 jsmanrique: A new device has been pre-announced: it will have in-built data connectivity and HD camera and OMAP3. Sep 17 10:49:01 StsN800, yeah, well, I live in the States. Sep 17 10:49:06 GeneralAntilles: stop bitching, nokia knows how to do data modems Sep 17 10:49:08 Jaffa: and that's great Sep 17 10:49:16 This guy's funny. Sep 17 10:49:25 very Sep 17 10:49:26 lcuk_work, whatever. Sep 17 10:49:30 timsamoff: helps us, but everyone else may suffer. No point being a developer if the platform is overpriced for end-users. Sep 17 10:49:34 Data is pretty expensive in the uk too Sep 17 10:49:52 Indeed. Sep 17 10:49:57 * aquatix waits till the price is known Sep 17 10:49:58 Too true, Jaffa. Sep 17 10:49:59 Maemo internet via sneakernet Sep 17 10:50:03 Which means being shackled to a provider Sep 17 10:50:04 lcuk_work, costs add up fast, and the cellular support impacts the platform in software development costs. Sep 17 10:50:08 i think nokia won't make the thing more expensive Sep 17 10:50:10 for the discount Sep 17 10:50:13 so are there plans for lunch? Sep 17 10:50:33 new device will cost at least as much as N95/N96, that's my guess Sep 17 10:50:34 rm_you: provided, AIUI Sep 17 10:50:37 GeneralAntilles: if its ONLY a modem then it can be a blackbox just like the usb dongle modems we get now Sep 17 10:50:39 Although, didn't I hear someone say recently that they didn't develop for other users. :p Sep 17 10:50:39 Thats what im hoping, im hank marvin Sep 17 10:50:40 aquatix, they'd price themselves out of the market if they did. Sep 17 10:50:41 rm_you: getting hungry Sep 17 10:50:46 exactly Sep 17 10:50:48 ...and my battery's dying Sep 17 10:50:58 GeneralAntilles: so i think you shouldn't worry yet :) Sep 17 10:51:08 same and same lol Sep 17 10:51:10 the N95/N96 has an order of magnitude economy of scale Sep 17 10:51:11 Cellular is bad juju however you look at it. Sep 17 10:51:11 N810 was more pricey than N800, more pricey than 770 Sep 17 10:51:18 you outside? Sep 17 10:51:19 higher than an n900 will Sep 17 10:51:27 rm_you: still at front Sep 17 10:51:34 N1k. N1k! Sep 17 10:51:43 this guy really is hilarious Sep 17 10:51:48 i, for one, welcome our cellular overlords who give us 24/7 internet without messing with other things Sep 17 10:51:59 Crackin' me up. Sep 17 10:52:00 lcuk_work, more like 5-hour internet. Sep 17 10:52:13 You wont get always-on with the sized battery we have now. Sep 17 10:52:21 thats about the same as i get now :) Sep 17 10:52:22 lcuk_work: for another 15 quid a month on top of mobile phone bill Sep 17 10:52:25 rm_you, I wouldn't go back to the booth. ;) Sep 17 10:52:47 jaffa: should i head outside? Sep 17 10:52:48 lcuk_work, probably less, in fact. Sep 17 10:52:49 Jaffa, even then its limited Sep 17 10:52:54 The N810W is somewhere in the 3-4 hour range. Sep 17 10:52:58 jaffa, happily pay it if the data comes in quickly enough - i dont want it for "internet" i want to connect to my server Sep 17 10:53:15 To the amount of data you can download per month Sep 17 10:53:22 Wind River. 5 Reasons why Open Source Won't Work in Mobile. Sep 17 10:53:33 1) A Linux phone will never be as good as an iPhone Sep 17 10:53:37 Fair usage and all that Sep 17 10:53:38 ah ok stupid irc burst/delays Sep 17 10:53:41 Too flipping funny. Sep 17 10:53:51 *FSVO "good" Sep 17 10:54:02 i love this guy Sep 17 10:54:02 Whats 2? Sep 17 10:54:11 hasn't got to 2 Sep 17 10:54:17 2) We are unable to make good software. :P Sep 17 10:54:19 jaffa, you type quick :D Sep 17 10:54:25 You're still in there? Sep 17 10:54:35 aye Sep 17 10:54:58 Ahh, i thought you left after the ari talk Sep 17 10:55:07 didn't move quick enough Sep 17 10:55:11 ;-) Sep 17 10:55:21 same Sep 17 10:55:21 Me hungry too. Sep 17 10:55:21 Jaffa: 1) A Linux phone will never be as good as an iPhone : FALSE Sep 17 10:55:26 Thats unfortunate Sep 17 10:55:32 got stuck lol Sep 17 10:55:37 Khertan: it's a joke Sep 17 10:55:42 :) Sep 17 10:55:44 i know Sep 17 10:56:12 Khertan: he's doing logical contradictions point by point Sep 17 10:56:12 how ... there was a keynote ? Sep 17 10:56:25 Definition of good: "There are 15 million units in the market today that a deveoper has to write an app for once, and they *know* they have 15 million builtin customers. And you *cannot* say that today about Linux. Not even 1 million users". Sep 17 10:56:37 he's not actually saying that Sep 17 10:56:47 no new products, no major changes from what's already happened with maemo.org Sep 17 10:56:55 it's the argument he's tryying to counter Sep 17 10:57:16 This is a really good talk -- people need to discuss these things. Sep 17 10:57:23 yesyesyes Sep 17 10:57:26 hum ... this wasn't planned for tomorrow ? Sep 17 10:57:28 ? Sep 17 10:57:42 Is it lunchtime? Sep 17 10:57:48 Ari's keynote was today. Honest: I've just watched it. Sep 17 10:57:50 this have change ... Sep 17 10:58:01 or use to point out problems Sep 17 10:58:01 and i ve see the change Sep 17 10:58:20 I saw Jaffa nodding off. Sep 17 10:58:23 Lol Sep 17 10:58:32 arg ... i think i ll see it tomorrow ... this why i come so early in the morning tomorrow Sep 17 10:58:33 timsamoff: heh Sep 17 10:58:35 :( Sep 17 10:58:44 2) "Symbian's open source announcement has given everyone a false sense of hope" Sep 17 10:59:17 My battery is red again. Arg. Later everyone. Sep 17 10:59:22 2) Symbian sucks ! Sep 17 10:59:24 :) Sep 17 10:59:36 ... i ll going to eat ... Sep 17 11:00:00 * Khertan want that today is tomorrow Sep 17 11:00:01 ... Sep 17 11:00:42 The hype surrounding the shift after Ari's keynote which was pitched by the @nokians doesn't *quite* seem to match reality. Maybe an HSPA component /really/ changes the game? Sep 17 11:00:57 * GeneralAntilles waits for Umptious to come back and edit the wikipedia article. Sep 17 11:01:02 3) "There are too many platform choices and operators insist on hedgin their ebets" Sep 17 11:01:33 Jaffa: yep Windows Mobile and Symbian should not exist ! Sep 17 11:01:35 :) Sep 17 11:01:58 gah cmon irc... update Sep 17 11:02:39 Fragmentation is preventing Linux from being a real competitor in the marketplace Sep 17 11:02:46 Well, the one good thing is maybe people will finally stop bitching about 3G support. Sep 17 11:03:02 4) OEM's won't let go legacy code Sep 17 11:03:13 Kinda kills the N810W's niche, though. Sep 17 11:04:16 :) Sep 17 11:04:24 When/where is the DevSesh? Can't find any ref to it in the Event Guide Sep 17 11:04:32 5) Too many in the mobile value chain just don't get it! Sep 17 11:05:04 Jaffa, its not in there Sep 17 11:05:16 Its got a seperate document Sep 17 11:07:13 Steve_B: righto. We probably need to make sure there's soem info about it on the booth Sep 17 11:07:16 GeneralAntilles: well, there's HSDPA here, but no wimax Sep 17 11:07:40 Is anyone on the booth now? Sep 17 11:07:48 5 things to do to make open source in mobile work Sep 17 11:07:51 1) Get a new product marketer Sep 17 11:07:58 2) While you're at it, get a new engineering director too Sep 17 11:08:07 3) Stop lookin over your shoulder, start to innovate Sep 17 11:08:09 * aquatix will do a grep on `Jaffa' tonight :) Sep 17 11:08:14 4) Change your low cost play into a high value play Sep 17 11:08:19 5) Think outside the ohone Sep 17 11:08:20 i think i'm supposed to be on the booth >_< Sep 17 11:08:26 rm_you: :) Sep 17 11:08:33 Uh oh Sep 17 11:08:41 rm_you, yes, literally, you should be ON the booth - dancing Sep 17 11:08:59 but i can't just leave on this guy. he's just too awesome Sep 17 11:09:03 rm_you: the cancan Sep 17 11:09:05 :) Sep 17 11:09:13 rm_you: then stay :) Sep 17 11:09:19 aquatix, i was thinking more ooga chacka Sep 17 11:09:32 i think jamie went at least... Sep 17 11:09:33 lcuk: also a good choice Sep 17 11:09:50 he could do village people dance quite well Sep 17 11:10:22 lcuk: why do you know? ;) Sep 17 11:10:30 lol lcuk. remind me to slap you :P immediately followed by buying you a pint :) Sep 17 11:10:33 (m) its fun to stay in the M.A.E.M.O Sep 17 11:10:43 loool Sep 17 11:10:53 :D dont slap me or i might drop my tablet and completely destroy liqbase in the process Sep 17 11:10:54 Seems like he is talking directly to people like Nokia. Sep 17 11:11:09 Yeah Sep 17 11:11:14 lcuk: b.a.c.k.u.p.s. Sep 17 11:11:15 :) Sep 17 11:11:22 i can do some swingdance :P Sep 17 11:11:23 * Jaffa has switched back to N810. Sep 17 11:11:35 Jaffa: external keyboard? Sep 17 11:11:35 screen & ssh rock Sep 17 11:11:40 aquatix, technically i have already sent the full source code + binary around the world :) Sep 17 11:11:47 lcuk: true Sep 17 11:11:53 * lcuk has offsite backup Sep 17 11:12:00 lcuk: but is that the latest? Sep 17 11:12:01 yep. sorta been thinking, is ari watching this? :p Sep 17 11:12:13 no aquatix - i only mailed it last night after i finished enough for my presentation Sep 17 11:12:17 fooooood Sep 17 11:12:22 lcuk: ah :) Sep 17 11:12:40 i have some bugfixes to do - but i can get them done on the plane Sep 17 11:12:56 OH SHIT! i need pygtkeditor before then Sep 17 11:13:14 Khertan, i hope you are givin that program some love - i want it super speedy Sep 17 11:13:27 :) Sep 17 11:13:58 i dont wanna have to write my own ide as well ;) though after tomorrow its a distinct possibility :) Sep 17 11:14:12 lol Sep 17 11:14:29 i m currently planning a rewrite of pygtkeditor Sep 17 11:14:36 what news from osim? Sep 17 11:14:43 but nothing is done yet Sep 17 11:14:51 writing your own texteditor component again? Sep 17 11:15:07 or using the existing one still with just your python magic around it? Sep 17 11:15:36 The booth is manned Sep 17 11:15:52 it would be better if it was womanned Sep 17 11:15:58 lcuk: i think using the existing one ... gtksourceview but with different parameters Sep 17 11:16:09 :D heh @ rm_you bein the maemo boothbabe Sep 17 11:16:09 and a more recent version of it Sep 17 11:16:25 and doing some optimization Sep 17 11:16:50 Khertan, if it goes anywhere rapidly, i might be able to get you a gtk editor component using liqbase backend in a windowed display Sep 17 11:16:53 Khertan_n810: is it an idea to port http://scribes.sourceforge.net/ ? Sep 17 11:17:04 but that all depends on me gettin serious dev time for it all Sep 17 11:17:08 not really too slow Sep 17 11:17:17 Khertan, oh yes, it is Sep 17 11:17:21 Khertan_n810: ah, gtksourceview already Sep 17 11:17:26 mollasses on a tuesday Sep 17 11:17:56 * rm_you attempts to drag lcuk's mind out of the gutter Sep 17 11:18:13 * lcuk puts a dollar in rm_yous thong Sep 17 11:18:14 but i ll integrate some of the idea i see in scribes Sep 17 11:19:10 Khertan, for desktop ide i like komodo-edit - if you havent tried it give it a blast :) Sep 17 11:19:33 i try to avoid kde things Sep 17 11:19:43 i don t like it most of the time Sep 17 11:19:55 but i ll get a look Sep 17 11:20:06 is it kde? i use it in windows Sep 17 11:21:47 brb anyway, stomach grumbling Sep 17 11:34:43 crashanddie, crashanddie where for art thou crashanddie Sep 17 11:40:18 lcuk: btw, wherefore means why :) Sep 17 11:40:42 Summon him like Beetlejuice Sep 17 11:41:18 thank you Robot101 Sep 17 11:41:30 still doesnt help me Sep 17 11:42:26 ok, can someone PLEASE confirm im not the only one freaked out by this: http://www.neuticles.com/ Sep 17 11:43:37 lcuk, used to know someone who had a dog with those. Sep 17 11:43:58 thats scary Sep 17 11:44:12 REALLY scary Sep 17 11:45:14 *shrugs*¢it was an ex-show dog but actually really good natured. Sep 17 11:45:45 lcuk: I like the idea that you can have them with different "firmness" Sep 17 11:46:12 * johnx is away again for a bit Sep 17 11:47:18 So when you're used to play with your dog's testicles you can still enjoy it just the same! Stil feels - natural! hrhr.. Splendid, I have to bookmark the site Sep 17 11:47:46 Blafasel, infact - you could say its the dogs bollocks Sep 17 12:09:47 google maps rules Sep 17 12:09:51 openstreetmap also Sep 17 12:17:55 * Jaffa yawns Sep 17 12:20:10 lcuk, looks like another money sink for fools Sep 17 12:23:30 I like the paragraph in the faq that advises the owner to massage the new genitals weekly to suppress scar tissue generation.. Sep 17 12:24:34 hrhr.. This is a neverending wtf.. Sep 17 12:25:57 Blafasel: that's wrong in so many ways :) Sep 17 12:26:21 aquatix: Yeah.. Like: "Hey, I cut off your testicles. Let me turn you on" Sep 17 12:34:15 hola Sep 17 12:36:23 woo. battery still holding out somehow Sep 17 12:39:58 For how long so far? Sep 17 12:40:15 I get this error in my bugtracker entered by an user : "When configuring mCalendar, many of the input fields inappropriately use initial caps. For example, when entering the password or login, the first character of the field defaults to upper case." Sep 17 12:40:19 I'm curious if the battery pack will be handy this weekend. Sep 17 12:40:31 how can i unactivated the auto caps on gtk.Entry ? Sep 17 12:40:56 hrw: yes ihave e1000 Sep 17 12:41:34 dystopia: I found solution - wrong cable Sep 17 12:42:25 khertan, i would have imagined if whatever "isPassword" flag you use to make stars appear would also automatically disable the auto capitalizing text input Sep 17 12:42:36 or do you just use a standard text field with visible password Sep 17 12:44:22 brb Sep 17 12:44:28 rebooting... memory issues <_< Sep 17 12:50:41 lcuk: this is not the case for isPassword ... there is still Auto Caps Sep 17 12:50:51 but i m looking for other gtk entry too Sep 17 12:51:23 but i can also answer to the user that this is a problem with the interface chair/keyboard Sep 17 12:51:27 :) Sep 17 12:52:41 khertan, autocaps is a user configurable option on normal text boxes - if they dont want it they can disable it in control panel? Sep 17 12:53:34 Khertan: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2008-06-27.log.html Sep 17 12:53:53 snowmoonI've found this, self.entry_id.set_property('autocap', False) but I get GtkEntry does not have property autocap Sep 17 12:54:00 http://www.slideshare.net/silpol/nokia-and-maemo-next-iteration-presentation/ Sep 17 12:54:28 lcuk: yep but a password field should not have it Sep 17 12:55:32 Khertan: if i were you, i would vote on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3095 Sep 17 12:56:56 * Khertan has voted ... Sep 17 12:56:57 :) Sep 17 12:57:02 thx melmoth for the links Sep 17 13:00:19 GeneralAntilles: very nice . ! Sep 17 13:02:10 DevSesh 5 will be interesting ... Sep 17 13:04:49 keesj, not my doing. Sep 17 13:11:23 hm, will the next internet tablet have built-in 3g/hspa? Sep 17 13:11:38 Unfortunately. Sep 17 13:11:42 lol Sep 17 13:11:48 * aquatix pats GeneralAntilles Sep 17 13:11:49 un? Sep 17 13:11:55 it will work out just fine Sep 17 13:11:59 $$$$$$$$ Sep 17 13:12:30 GeneralAntilles: maybe they even release a NIT light, without sliding keyboard en 3g Sep 17 13:12:37 for $99 ;) Sep 17 13:13:04 or get the full one 'free' with an 18month contract ;) Sep 17 13:13:27 It was hard enough talking my wife into letting me speed $500 on my first tablet Sep 17 13:13:31 lcuk, at $50/mo for data? Sep 17 13:13:33 I don't think so. Sep 17 13:13:41 <_teo_> hello Sep 17 13:13:51 people seem to be scooping them up in their millions from the apple side Sep 17 13:14:00 "i dont think so" sounds more like sour grapes :P Sep 17 13:14:59 Huh? Sep 17 13:15:05 I can't afford that kind of cost. Sep 17 13:15:06 Period Sep 17 13:15:11 no ifs ands or buts. Sep 17 13:15:16 <_teo_> I'm having an issue with the browser in OS2008, maybe you folks can help me. Simply, when I start the browser, the app hangs there, there's a notification box saying "Updating" and while the app interface responds (menu opens, icons are clicked), I can't open any page nor do anything useful, like an interface that does nothing Sep 17 13:15:51 I'm more afraid of Nokia not making the OS backwards compatable and I will be stuck with a tablet that no one is writing software for anymore Sep 17 13:16:06 /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon restart Sep 17 13:16:17 andrewfblack, welcome to the 770 owner's world. Sep 17 13:16:23 gen, you have multiple expensive devices in your home, you are chairman of the community council, stop whining about cost - if one comes out i doubt you would be able to resist Sep 17 13:16:43 and i doubt it would be long before you were accepted for the dev-handouts or beta testing etc Sep 17 13:16:47 lcuk, it's not just my own personal cost I'm considering, though. Sep 17 13:16:50 and noone is forcing a data contrac on you Sep 17 13:16:56 The N800 was popular because it was cheap Sep 17 13:17:05 <_teo_> GeneralAntilles: woohoo, it works! thank you very much! Sep 17 13:17:09 see how many got an n810 :) Sep 17 13:17:09 A $700 tablet would kill off most of the market. Sep 17 13:17:16 Bleh Sep 17 13:17:18 * aquatix is afk for a bit Sep 17 13:17:19 I don't feel like arguing it. Sep 17 13:17:22 where does anything say anything about price? Sep 17 13:17:22 <_teo_> who would have thought it was just a daemon to restart -_-' Sep 17 13:17:35 GeneralAntilles: heh :) just saying that you shouldn't be too gloomy now Sep 17 13:17:37 It's the Nvidia discussion all over again. Sep 17 13:17:45 bbl Sep 17 13:17:50 cheer up ;) Sep 17 13:18:44 lcuk, compare it to the N96. Sep 17 13:18:49 huh? nahhh its not - but aquatix is right - itsn ot required that you use mobile, but it would be a great asset to be built in. anyway im afk as well Sep 17 13:19:03 I still pay for it even if I don't use it. Sep 17 13:19:39 yer, i have a damned expensive gps sitting in my 810 that i barely use - it tells me im sat at my computer Sep 17 13:19:50 Er? Sep 17 13:19:53 Expensive? Sep 17 13:20:03 Nokia probably got all of those chips for free from TI. Sep 17 13:20:18 yeah GPS chips are dirt cheap Sep 17 13:20:28 Especially GPS chips as shitty as the one in the N810. Sep 17 13:20:34 lol Sep 17 13:20:37 and they would do likewise with the gprs chip, come on you are just against cellular fullstop - even if it was free Sep 17 13:20:56 It's never free. Sep 17 13:21:02 That's why it's cellular Sep 17 13:21:09 They have to pass all sorts of expensive testing to even sell it. Sep 17 13:21:14 Doesn't matter how much the hardware costs. Sep 17 13:21:29 If they are going cellular built it it wont be long and they will be locking them to certain companys in the US Sep 17 13:21:29 moo all Sep 17 13:21:32 hi all Sep 17 13:21:37 and they manage that and sell phones for $20 or less Sep 17 13:22:02 $20 phone comes with a 2 year contract Sep 17 13:22:11 no, payg Sep 17 13:22:19 Those phones have economies of scale involved that an N900 wont ever be able to compete with. Sep 17 13:22:23 well, buy your phone at full price and do not sign the contract Sep 17 13:22:24 payg phones are alot more then $20 Sep 17 13:22:27 it is as easy as this Sep 17 13:22:37 what's "payg"? Sep 17 13:22:44 pay as you go Sep 17 13:22:44 Pay as You Go Sep 17 13:22:47 what about the 3g modem i can buy over here for £30 that plugs into computer and is just a modem? Sep 17 13:22:54 cheapest pay as you go phone I have seen is about $50 to %75 Sep 17 13:22:56 in other words, what you are doing =) Sep 17 13:23:00 $75 Sep 17 13:23:28 ah, well. time will tell. but I think I should get more maemo software into debian, make sure to keep my options open :) Sep 17 13:24:29 hopefully we'll get to the end of this situation where each device has a totally different software stack Sep 17 13:25:01 * Khertan is thinking of making the most well selled and easy to code application for iPhone ... Sep 17 13:25:02 johnx_, btw google finit-alt and see the videos Sep 17 13:25:21 * Khertan at some company ... each device should have an anti-virus ... Sep 17 13:25:25 khertan, gfi Sep 17 13:25:39 johnx_, could be interesting to adapt Sep 17 13:25:41 The Khertan AntiVirus for iPhone Sep 17 13:26:03 Some nice icons ... a nice progress bar ... Sep 17 13:26:08 and it ll be enought :) Sep 17 13:26:18 no need to a real engine :) Sep 17 13:26:23 s/to/of Sep 17 13:26:27 :) Sep 17 13:26:29 but if all apps come from app-store and you cannot run as a daemon isnt that kinda fruitless Sep 17 13:27:14 lcuk: this useless true ... but some company don't accept iphone as the company policies claim that there is no anti virus on it Sep 17 13:27:32 heh, good idea then Sep 17 13:27:33 lcuk, nope. it's even better this way. nothing to slow down other apps :) Sep 17 13:27:34 are there antiviruses for regular plain old non-smart phones? Sep 17 13:27:54 are there viruses for plain old non-smart phones? Sep 17 13:28:01 For WinMob? Probably. Sep 17 13:28:07 mgedmin: 6630 isn't a smartphone Sep 17 13:28:11 http://www.airscanner.com/downloads/av/av.html Sep 17 13:28:13 but there is many antivirus ... Sep 17 13:28:31 bbl Sep 17 13:28:53 anything with windows mobile in it is not a phone in my book Sep 17 13:29:02 arg this suck ... you need a mac to compile something for iPhone Sep 17 13:29:18 mgedmin, how do you figure? Sep 17 13:29:24 mgedmin: 6630 isn't something with winmobile Sep 17 13:29:26 The Motorola Q is definitely a phone. Sep 17 13:29:44 general: the link you posted said "antivirus for windows mobile" Sep 17 13:29:48 I didn't read any further than that Sep 17 13:29:50 http://jp.opera.com/img/press/phones/nokia_6630.jpg Sep 17 13:29:54 I'm not sure why we're discussing 6630 Sep 17 13:30:05 because it s my phone :) Sep 17 13:30:10 it s not a smartphone Sep 17 13:30:11 I expressed my incredulity with a company policy outlawing cellphones that have no antivirus software for them Sep 17 13:30:16 but there is antivirus for it Sep 17 13:30:37 * Khertan will not give any name ... like BNP ... Sep 17 13:30:38 :) Sep 17 13:31:06 they force us to have antivirus on Mac osx Sep 17 13:31:08 :) Sep 17 13:31:35 and don't let anything using there network if the device don't have an antivirus Sep 17 13:31:43 s/there/their Sep 17 13:32:19 what about a firewall? Sep 17 13:32:35 Khertan: switches/routers too? :) Sep 17 13:32:57 Or printers! Sep 17 13:33:06 hey, does this ethernet cable have antivirus on it? Sep 17 13:33:21 my company wont let me use my n810 just because its not windows Sep 17 13:34:32 only way to get a computer on the wireless network is to run a windows program that sets it up to work Sep 17 13:34:33 pyhimys: lol ... :) Sep 17 13:34:45 iirc, one can get ethernet dongles now that apply antivirus and ids on the traffic passing thru it... Sep 17 13:35:17 there is also small ethernet<->wifi dongle that can be plug discretly :) Sep 17 13:35:43 Khertan, that's one way to get your ass fired. Sep 17 13:36:01 example i ve see a company with a strong security get hack from internal ... behind the cofee machine there was an unused ethernet plug ... Sep 17 13:36:14 and something use it to reroute all the traffic ... Sep 17 13:36:19 GeneralAntilles: yep ... it is Sep 17 13:37:39 just make sure to keep a copy of the root password(s) on the keychain usb dongle ;) Sep 17 13:42:12 or on a postit on your monitor Sep 17 13:42:36 i was thinking more in case one got fired ;) Sep 17 13:44:08 then you just need a machine that does ssh porforwarding to a some outside machine Sep 17 13:44:12 I know company which require using windows-only software to connect to company vpn Sep 17 13:46:31 In one of my former companies we found out a nt-box that had an uptime of 900+ days. It was on public internet with iis and sql-server. Sep 17 13:46:43 And it wasn't cracked! Sep 17 13:52:42 pyhimys: it was probably on a 2400 baud modem, on one could even ping it :) Sep 17 13:53:32 liri: or blackhole routed Sep 17 13:55:48 why would a script kiddie hack his own box? Sep 17 13:55:58 pyhimys: how do you know it wasn't rootkitted? Sep 17 13:56:08 besides, did it actually do something useful? ;) Sep 17 13:56:10 RST38h: training? forgotten the password? Sep 17 13:56:20 there wasn't ftp-server running? Sep 17 13:56:28 you sure? ;) Sep 17 13:57:47 i recall reading a classical story about some university server betting drywalled because noone remembered that it was there, as there had been no reason to physically access it in ages... Sep 17 13:57:57 aquatix: pretty sure. The unix-admins couldn't believe it so they checked out the box pretty thoroughly Sep 17 13:58:19 ghehe Sep 17 13:58:47 it hadn't a firewall up on all ports? Sep 17 13:58:50 Anyways it wasn't my box. The windows admins smirked for weeks after that. Sep 17 13:59:07 :) Sep 17 13:59:30 Ofcourse it had a firewall in front of it. But it had atleast http open. Sep 17 13:59:31 `wow, we had one server with big uptime and no cracks!' Sep 17 14:00:22 and iis isn't actually known for robust security Sep 17 14:00:26 RST38h, I hacked my own machine once. I inherited an SGI O2 with a lost root password... Sep 17 14:00:54 physical access = boot to single user? Sep 17 14:02:20 there was some reason I could easily Sep 17 14:02:28 johnx: Ah, O2s ... Sep 17 14:02:35 I ended up taking out the drive and rewriting the root password Sep 17 14:02:37 * RST38h weeps a little bit Sep 17 14:02:49 I never did figure out what to do with it Sep 17 14:02:58 But it looked cool Sep 17 14:03:03 it's stored in my parents garage for now Sep 17 14:03:07 Like a blue trashcan Sep 17 14:03:18 johnx_: watch the opengl demos forever? Sep 17 14:03:21 mine was kinda old and beat up Sep 17 14:03:33 johnx_: can't you run an AI on it? Sep 17 14:03:35 or play bzflag :) Sep 17 14:03:48 johnx: Somebody had sex with it? =) Sep 17 14:04:20 RST38h, eh? it was just scratched and missing the cd-rom drive cover... Sep 17 14:04:26 Oh Sep 17 14:04:37 missing cdrom drive cover <-- sure evidence Sep 17 14:04:45 * Jaffa is back in the hotel. Sep 17 14:05:02 lmoura: hi! Sep 17 14:05:16 johnx: btw it should play this quite nicely: http://www.evl.uic.edu/aej/AndyBattalion.html Sep 17 14:05:19 johnx_: install an AI on it and call it Erwin ;) Sep 17 14:05:38 lmoura: how could I update python packages since it doesn't appear in app manager? as root in console? Sep 17 14:05:38 ah...I remember user-friendly when it was still kinda funny... Sep 17 14:05:47 johnx_: ;) Sep 17 14:05:55 today's actually is quite fun Sep 17 14:14:21 I wonder if that MMORPG that runs on Android will run on the Tablets on Android Sep 17 14:15:36 I wonder how good will android be doing on the tablets Sep 17 14:16:23 a lot better once there's source :) Sep 17 14:16:54 hard to get excited about making it work with binary hacks that break the license agreement when the source release is imminent... Sep 17 14:18:20 Android'll run very badly due to the lack of 3D drivers: all the talk during the Android Keynote was of "compelling UI" and easy Â3D. Sep 17 14:18:41 I just wonder whether it will provide missing pim functionality... Sep 17 14:19:09 yacoob there is some marvelous pim on maemo Sep 17 14:19:11 :) Sep 17 14:19:13 Jaffa, I think 3D won't be required Sep 17 14:19:26 the problem of android is java Sep 17 14:19:54 for developers I guess :) Sep 17 14:19:56 but it's only a problem once, not a new problem with every new device Sep 17 14:20:22 Admittedly, the next Maemo device is going to have 3D acceleration, so it becomes much more likely as an Android target. Sep 17 14:20:29 johnx_: a problem for dev ... mainly mean less applications ... so a problem for users :) Sep 17 14:20:34 i think they choose language to make it easier for developers Sep 17 14:20:46 But, from what I overheard, that's looking in the wrong direction for which big Linux company'll be involved. Sep 17 14:21:01 Khertan, it must be pretty deep burried 8) Sep 17 14:21:36 yacoob: http://khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot38.png Sep 17 14:21:36 Khertan, well, I'm happy to wait and see Sep 17 14:21:37 this year is seeing a lot of interesting linux devices to choose from Sep 17 14:22:02 johnx_: yep it seems ... but android don't enjoy me ... Sep 17 14:22:16 ohhh, it's getting better :D Sep 17 14:22:18 Khertan: is mContacts compatible with the built-in contacts? Sep 17 14:22:26 aquatix: nope Sep 17 14:22:31 eds sucks Sep 17 14:22:33 hm Sep 17 14:22:38 Khertan, can has month view, free time view and syncml plx? :> Sep 17 14:22:46 eds <-> evolution data server Sep 17 14:22:52 * aquatix seconds syncml Sep 17 14:23:10 * Khertan vote -1 for syncml Sep 17 14:23:16 :) Sep 17 14:23:20 * aquatix overrules Khertan ;) Sep 17 14:23:31 * yacoob cracks the whip over Khertan. Sep 17 14:23:39 Community has spoken! Get back to work! Sep 17 14:23:40 :) Sep 17 14:23:42 seriously, it'd be awesome to have, as you can then actually sync it with phones and such Sep 17 14:23:45 i ll see what i can do Sep 17 14:23:48 mcalendar should also support multi calendars because that's common in google calendar Sep 17 14:23:59 Khertan: i'm aware that syncml is extremely hairy though :( Sep 17 14:24:05 liri: don't say it ... but it ll in a few days ... Sep 17 14:24:19 Khertan: nice :) Sep 17 14:24:23 in fact the not yet release version do it :) Sep 17 14:24:34 Khertan: cool, I'm looking forwards to it Sep 17 14:24:40 aquatix: hairy ... i ll not be so polite Sep 17 14:24:56 but i m looking how to do this Sep 17 14:25:08 can't you look at opensync's code for it? Sep 17 14:25:19 i can look Sep 17 14:25:31 but ... i already wear glasses Sep 17 14:25:41 i don't want to be blind Sep 17 14:25:52 ghehehe Sep 17 14:26:05 `omg, the goggles - they do nothing!' Sep 17 14:26:21 * aquatix doesn't know whether the opensync code is nice or not Sep 17 14:26:45 oh ... i ve found something interesting about sync ml : http://fr.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programmation_XML/SyncML Sep 17 14:26:46 :) Sep 17 14:27:39 huhu it use uuid Sep 17 14:27:59 1.1 SyncML/1.1 104050403 5 ... ... target database URI source database URI datafield and data an existing data field with some data Sep 17 14:28:04 ouch sorry Sep 17 14:29:28 hum ... and if says that i can do something that use google as middleware for the syncml ? Sep 17 14:29:30 jaffa: Android = java Sep 17 14:29:46 and java != good Sep 17 14:29:46 I.e. it suddenly becomes uninsteresting for any serious development Sep 17 14:30:55 Pfft. Sep 17 14:31:03 RST38h, there are developers that think exactly otherwise :) Sep 17 14:31:13 Android actually == JVM + Dalvik. Sep 17 14:31:23 Which means: Groovy, Python, JRuby, Java, ... Sep 17 14:31:33 Mature tooling. Rich libraries. Sep 17 14:31:56 Anyone who says "Java is uninteresting for any serious development" may mean *to them*, but in the real world... not so much. Sep 17 14:32:05 Jaffa: abismal performance Sep 17 14:32:14 memory hog. Sep 17 14:32:15 (FSVO real, where real == $$$) Sep 17 14:32:32 Jaffa: In a real world you need to play mpeg4 video ;) Sep 17 14:32:37 RST38h: Google's answer to that is Dalvik, not a typical stack-based JVM. Whether it works or not, I dunno. Sep 17 14:32:43 RST38h: actually, things like opera mini and google maps run just fine on my cellphone Sep 17 14:32:52 jaffa: Dalvik is not the answer, I am sorry Sep 17 14:33:00 RST38h: Android demo I saw this morning was quite happy doing complex 3D, semi-transparent rendering and MPEG4 video. Sep 17 14:33:08 * aquatix is curious to the performance of android though Sep 17 14:33:11 RST38h, bad java apps are mostly results of its popularity Sep 17 14:33:12 jaffa: It works faster than most JITs of course, but not fast enough Sep 17 14:33:16 same story as with php Sep 17 14:33:28 Jaffa, did you get my -community email? Sep 17 14:33:32 RST38h: It's better than Python Sep 17 14:33:35 jaffa: I have seen 3D demo on a Spectrum. Does not mean anything. Sep 17 14:33:36 RST38h: but how is that different from python on the n8x0? Sep 17 14:33:48 you had sudden influx of eager "developers", commiting every possible sin there is Sep 17 14:33:54 Python is not trying to become the only languge to develop in Sep 17 14:33:59 RST38h: I'm not going to have a theoretical debate about the performance of a platform which hasn't been released. Sep 17 14:33:59 true Sep 17 14:34:10 Python is an option on Maemo. Java is the main dev language on Android Sep 17 14:34:14 RST38h: but it runs fine, and people are doing multimedia with it Sep 17 14:34:24 Jaffa: it is not theoretical, really Sep 17 14:34:25 Jaffa: RST38h: It's better than Python : FALSE ! Sep 17 14:34:38 GeneralAntilles: which one, the first task one? Sep 17 14:34:43 Yeah Sep 17 14:34:48 Yeah Sep 17 14:35:01 Khertan: erm, performance of java in a decent jvm is better than python Sep 17 14:35:12 Jaffa: Very practical. Means that instead of video decoders, emulators, complex games you will just get a bunch of underbaked slow java apps like you get for java phones Sep 17 14:35:15 Jaffa, I figure you're probably best equipped to understand the issue. Sep 17 14:35:16 * aquatix likes python though Sep 17 14:35:20 So if you could bug everybody else about it. ;) Sep 17 14:35:32 GeneralAntilles: will do :-) Sep 17 14:35:34 it really depends on which applications you want to develop. 90% of normal end-user apps will probably be fine with dalvik. Sep 17 14:35:44 * python likes aquatix too :) Sep 17 14:35:52 depending on how fast the native gui+multimedia stack is... Sep 17 14:35:52 awww :) Sep 17 14:36:00 lol syncml AND python search in sourceforge give no results Sep 17 14:36:17 jott: indeed. Sep 17 14:38:01 Khertan: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=130831&package_id=183625 ? Sep 17 14:38:12 that's code from http://www.taskcoach.org/ Sep 17 14:38:29 t_s_o: yes that was a DEC :-) Sep 17 14:38:47 yep ... but syncing task is easy Sep 17 14:38:59 and isn't really hard Sep 17 14:39:05 not the same thing for event Sep 17 14:39:09 recurrence Sep 17 14:39:14 for example :) Sep 17 14:40:16 recurrence? exceptions from it ftw! Sep 17 14:40:24 yeah Sep 17 14:40:36 (speaking of which, scheduleworld has just messed my gcal :E) Sep 17 14:40:37 i think devices normally just store exceptions to the recurrence Sep 17 14:41:03 * aquatix gave up on synching his phone (primary PIM) a while back Sep 17 14:41:04 Nokia's insistence that their closed-source UI stuff gives them an advantage is laughable. Sep 17 14:41:20 If anything, it hurts them because the community can't hack on it and turn their suck into not-suck. Sep 17 14:41:25 no good syncml services out there Sep 17 14:41:42 GeneralAntilles: myeah Sep 17 14:41:56 GeneralAntilles: suffice to say, I'll raise this with Ari tonight ;-) Sep 17 14:42:16 Jaffa, beat him around with a 2x4. Sep 17 14:43:38 aquatix: do you if taskcoach is already be able to do sync by syncml protocol ? i see nothing in the code Sep 17 14:43:42 yeah, 80% is the low and mid level libraries, 20% is all the user facing stuff... Sep 17 14:44:05 ...apart from hildon-desktop Sep 17 14:44:19 80% is all the stuff they just got from other people. ;) Sep 17 14:44:25 :) Sep 17 14:44:34 well hildon-desktop *itself* is open...but not anything that makes it a real desktop Sep 17 14:44:43 true Sep 17 14:44:49 Khertan: well, i got those links from here - http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/browse_thread/thread/86a3c875c3da65d9 Sep 17 14:45:11 I still need somebody who knows libconic Sep 17 14:45:26 Be really nice to replace the connectivity applets with a "Advanced" version. Sep 17 14:46:10 Khertan: or check http://libsyncml.opensync.org/ Sep 17 14:46:10 heh...like network manager? Sep 17 14:46:14 but that's C, likely Sep 17 14:46:29 Khertan: interesting to make a port though ;) Sep 17 14:47:05 The battery applet should be an easy one to replace. Sep 17 14:47:19 practically done already Sep 17 14:47:56 since you can put systray apps in the statusbar it should be just a matter of compiling an off the shelf battery applet that can grok hal Sep 17 14:48:22 Drag in some retu numbers for some more interesting stats. Sep 17 14:48:40 then you quickly end up being device specific... Sep 17 14:48:56 one step forward, two steps back Sep 17 14:49:13 Well, what else are you looking to use it on? :P Sep 17 14:49:18 Hi all Sep 17 14:49:27 It'd be simple enough to detect what it's running on, anyway. Sep 17 14:49:37 GeneralAntilles, *everything else* :) Sep 17 14:49:53 and only show the retu stuff when appropriate. Sep 17 14:50:04 how about the next tablet for one, and the pandora for another Sep 17 14:50:05 Personally, I'd rather have the extra functionality on the tablet I have right now. Sep 17 14:50:36 then code it in :P Sep 17 14:50:46 People, i never play marbles, if i remove /usr/games/lmarbles, will it be removed? Sep 17 14:50:48 I'm just say there are already battery applets we can use now Sep 17 14:51:08 johnx_, get to Hildonizing then. :P Sep 17 14:51:29 meh Sep 17 14:51:38 I'm not sold on a hildon only desktop Sep 17 14:52:29 johnx_: still have a bit of an idea of a hildon ui on debian, eh? Sep 17 14:52:39 if there were a way to have a dual hildon/gtk desktop... :) Sep 17 14:52:53 Stskeeps, digging into the "pkg-maemo" modest source package right now Sep 17 14:53:48 if I could make bzr checkout the code...grrrr Sep 17 14:54:13 Binky: isn't there a package for it? Sep 17 14:54:24 Binky: if so, remove it with the app manager Sep 17 14:54:34 It comes preinstalled Sep 17 14:54:48 it still has an entry in apt Sep 17 14:55:03 but if you remove it through apt it will remove osso-software-version-* Sep 17 14:55:29 summatusmentis, Hildon is GTK. . . . Sep 17 14:55:48 johnx_, But anyway, i can't remove apps, i have to erase files Sep 17 14:56:12 Binky, you can remove it with apt-get remove Sep 17 14:56:37 No, i can't Sep 17 14:56:47 I have done this in the past Sep 17 14:56:48 Results in an error Sep 17 14:57:01 johnx_: dpkg with force-all can remove a package but leaves deps unsatisfied Sep 17 14:57:13 s/a package/a preinstalled package/ Sep 17 14:57:13 qwerty12 meant: johnx_: dpkg with force-all can remove a preinstalled package but leaves deps unsatisfied Sep 17 14:57:16 qwerty12, I just sacrificed osso-software-version Sep 17 14:57:22 I can install apps but i can't remove them. Sep 17 14:58:06 johnx_, what's the use of that package? Sep 17 14:58:09 johnx_: true. In chinook I did this but now with SSU, I don't take any chances :) Sep 17 14:58:17 qwerty12, same here Sep 17 14:58:30 Binky, it's used during updates to make sure everything gets updated Sep 17 14:58:39 anyways, if you want to remove just the files, do apt-cache search marbles, then dpkg -L package-name Sep 17 14:58:46 that will tell you the files Sep 17 14:58:55 cannot remove `/.': Invalid argument Errors were encountered while processing: any appE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) Sep 17 14:59:28 GeneralAntilles: oh, I guess I knew that Sep 17 14:59:42 what was the exact command you used Sep 17 14:59:44 ? Sep 17 15:00:11 # apt-get remove mitter Sep 17 15:00:24 But the same with any package Sep 17 15:00:40 aaah...so your whole system is somewhat broken Sep 17 15:00:51 Also, apt-cache search marbles won't give me any result Sep 17 15:01:06 johnx_, it was, but i kinda 'fixed' it Sep 17 15:01:30 if you can't remove any app I would call it broken Sep 17 15:01:32 So, i can install, but no uninstall Sep 17 15:01:42 also, it does turn up results on my working system Sep 17 15:02:07 My /var/apt/archives/status broke Sep 17 15:02:47 johnx_, it finds results for other apps, but not marbles Sep 17 15:03:33 Binky: What is in /var/lib/dpkg/info/? Do you have a *marbles.list file in there? Sep 17 15:03:40 I can't make guesses about what kind of damage is done to /var/lib/dpkg/status Sep 17 15:03:51 gah. anyone happen to have utelnetd-0.1.3.tar.gz source laying about? Sep 17 15:03:57 the homepage of it is broken Sep 17 15:04:04 johnx_, it manages apt-get Sep 17 15:04:17 Binky, and yet it's obviously broken Sep 17 15:04:41 Nope. It's blank, since it was all corrupted Sep 17 15:04:45 Stskeeps: Simple tricks ;) http://www.pengutronix.de/software/utelnetd/utelnetd-0.1.3.tar.gz Sep 17 15:04:56 qwerty12: ah Sep 17 15:05:02 my geek fu isn't as good as it used to Sep 17 15:05:23 And my 770 doesn't know what apps i have installed Sep 17 15:05:26 But i know Sep 17 15:05:34 Though I probably have the source laying about due to the amount of router firmware sources I got... Sep 17 15:05:41 Binky, ahahaha...so your /var/lib/dpkg/status isn't related in any way to what's installed...but it's not *broken* Sep 17 15:06:38 johnx_, that's it. i messed up the file location, sorry Sep 17 15:06:49 if you want to remove it by hand then try find /usr -name "*marble*" Sep 17 15:06:56 that will give you a hint at least Sep 17 15:07:19 some stuff in /usr/share /usr/games and maybe /usr/lib Sep 17 15:08:27 Yup. Sep 17 15:09:26 then when you have time, reflash :) Sep 17 15:09:31 And remov all results. And it's done, true? Sep 17 15:09:50 well, remove stuff that you think is related Sep 17 15:10:08 and there will probably be little bits left behind Sep 17 15:10:20 there's not much you can do in your situation, without a working package manager Sep 17 15:10:33 Oh no! I'd have reflashed looong time ago, but WSOD is there... Hiding... And when you less wait it... WHITE!!! Sep 17 15:11:13 are there any plans for the evening? Sep 17 15:16:34 http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2008/09/osim-news-whats-up-with-maemo.html Sep 17 15:17:40 For shame! "Maemo.org is an open source project, sponsored and contributed by Nokia" Sep 17 15:19:13 "Nokia uses Maemo.org as the foundation of its own Maemo software that currently fuels Nokia’s Internet Tablets" not sure what _that_ means, exactly. Sep 17 15:19:26 marketing speak? Sep 17 15:20:41 it means nokia abuses maemo.org and currently nokia internet tablet is using maemo software Sep 17 15:21:35 Can somebody at the Summit make sure somebody from Nokia legal is hunted down about the maemo.org stuff? Sep 17 15:23:10 http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Members Sep 17 15:23:14 Nokia hasn't been upgraded. Sep 17 15:29:16 Anybody know what's going on with the sprint review? Sep 17 15:29:39 a sprint review in the middle of the summit? Sep 17 15:29:51 So says the wiki Sep 17 15:29:52 sounds like an odd time Sep 17 15:30:18 Yeah, don't see where it could fit. Sep 17 15:59:16 is anyone at the summit on there Tablet? lol Sep 17 15:59:41 everyone's battery is running out now ;) Sep 17 16:00:09 andrewfblack: was quite fun to see quite a lot of NIT's (and Eee's) at FOSDEM this year too btw Sep 17 16:00:14 and that's already a while ago Sep 17 16:01:31 Lunch time Sep 17 16:01:50 enjoy Sep 17 16:06:55 weiß einer die lottozahlen Sep 17 16:09:09 yeah, hello to you too Sep 17 16:12:16 so the announcements today mean mobile broadband on maemo, not mobile phone running maemo? Sep 17 16:12:32 Correct. Sep 17 16:13:12 * Jaffa foods. Sep 17 16:14:11 who'd want a nokia tablet glued to their ear anyway? Sep 17 16:14:16 * qwerty12 sighs in relief as I replace my shell script cgi with a c++ one Sep 17 16:14:18 earprint galore Sep 17 16:14:18 :P Sep 17 16:15:39 nokia implant tablet Sep 17 16:16:01 with 100% more RFID:-) Sep 17 16:16:54 god, i'd really like a ctrl-alt-del like thing on the tablets Sep 17 16:16:58 so i dont have to physically pop the battery Sep 17 16:16:59 :P Sep 17 16:17:18 * Stskeeps ponders making a mmc door trigger Sep 17 16:17:25 figure out a way to send a sysrq Sep 17 16:17:33 usb keyboard should do it Sep 17 16:17:55 Stskeeps, ill buy that for a dollar Sep 17 16:18:01 i'm sortof making the boot process all over again so it feels like june again Sep 17 16:18:20 usb big red button Sep 17 16:18:23 hehe Sep 17 16:19:01 i allocated all my sketches (about 300 at the mo) multiple times without freeing them, my pooter went a bit skitz Sep 17 16:19:04 can stimpy KEEP from PUSHING the SHINEY RED BUTTON that BECKONS him EVEN NOW Sep 17 16:20:01 Stskeeps, you want one of these: http://gizmodo.com/5051024/hps-wireless-comfort-keyboard-has-emergency-ctrl+alt+del-key Sep 17 16:20:06 hehe Sep 17 16:20:23 johnx_: i noticed one reason for ubuntu on tablets - mojo targets the processors more directly than debian's catch-most-arm Sep 17 16:20:38 yeah, I've been thinking about that Sep 17 16:20:51 a debian build of mojo looks pretty ideal though Sep 17 16:20:54 yeah Sep 17 16:21:01 angstrom is another possibility, too Sep 17 16:21:17 and i wonder if it would be possible to compile specific needed packages like let's say xserver, dash or the likes :P Sep 17 16:21:23 but not sure how apt handles that Sep 17 16:21:25 I'd still like to figure out what needs to happen to run hildon apps in a normal window manager... Sep 17 16:21:39 Stskeeps, you export some env variable and build away Sep 17 16:21:43 true Sep 17 16:22:17 we have such a wealth of apps that work *really* great on the tablet...it would be a shame to toss them aside Sep 17 16:22:37 i was thinking if it would be possible to do Maemo chroot really Sep 17 16:22:45 with same tricks, two xomap etc Sep 17 16:22:57 *sigh* that seems pretty icky to me Sep 17 16:23:08 yeah, but it's one way ;) Sep 17 16:23:14 definitely Sep 17 16:23:22 hildon packages exist for debian though Sep 17 16:23:26 yup Sep 17 16:23:52 and I'm working on figuring out why bzr won't let me check out the work in progress modest debian package... Sep 17 16:24:29 you want to see if it sucks less on debian? ;) Sep 17 16:24:46 I *like it* on os200x Sep 17 16:24:56 I must be the only person who it works perfectly for... Sep 17 16:24:58 yeah :P Sep 17 16:24:59 You would need to run a sapwood at least. I did ssh -X forwarding of hildon apps from the tablet to the computer and the result was a little freaky :/ http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/N800XForwarding-test.png Sep 17 16:25:17 qwerty12, that's cause the gtk theme is set to hildon too Sep 17 16:25:24 I'm thinking sato gtk theme would be nice Sep 17 16:25:34 hildon gtk theme is truly weird Sep 17 16:25:59 and I want to stab sapwood for wasting my time Sep 17 16:26:19 ha! made bzr work Sep 17 16:27:47 seriously, a gtk theme that relies on some random separate process ... who thought that was an ok idea? Sep 17 16:28:14 jott: yo? Sep 17 16:28:20 johnx_: maybe it saves resources.. Sep 17 16:29:02 Stskeeps, It must...but it's still a kludge Sep 17 16:29:07 Sapwood is supposed to be "lightweight" Sep 17 16:29:26 good for it. the default gtk theme is probably more lightweight Sep 17 16:29:44 Then why are they using? Sep 17 16:29:47 There must be SOME reason. Sep 17 16:30:02 they probably wanted to be able to theme with pixmaps Sep 17 16:30:08 that's my only conclusion Sep 17 16:30:42 at least sapwood is opensource. it would really take the piss if it wasn't :/ Sep 17 16:31:05 anyways, I'll see what I can make work without it Sep 17 16:31:10 and how screwed up the results look :) Sep 17 16:31:38 an omap3 sure will be nice for on-device builds :) Sep 17 16:31:52 i have two qemu-system-armel debian boxes by now :P Sep 17 16:32:00 using them for building Sep 17 16:32:06 not as fast as scratchbox though.. Sep 17 16:32:22 I should put mine back in place...but I'm not convinced it's much faster on an athlon64 Sep 17 16:32:35 and thankfully I'm not building anything huge these days Sep 17 16:32:41 johnx_, Beagle's are cheap. ;) Sep 17 16:32:57 i was thinking about getting a beagle but i dont have any flatscreens :P Sep 17 16:33:02 GeneralAntilles, pandora comes with a screen :) Sep 17 16:33:11 Twice the price, though. Sep 17 16:33:18 Stskeeps, not ONE? Sep 17 16:33:25 They haven't sold a use CRT in at least 4 years. . . . Sep 17 16:33:35 s/use/useful/ Sep 17 16:33:35 GeneralAntilles meant: They haven't sold a useful CRT in at least 4 years. . . . Sep 17 16:33:37 GeneralAntilles: well, except on a laptop Sep 17 16:33:40 dvi to vga converter exist, right? Sep 17 16:34:21 beagles don't have screens to break either Sep 17 16:34:23 GeneralAntilles: i'm of the opinion that i should use old equipment until the benefit of something newer warrants the cost Sep 17 16:34:34 or the pain Sep 17 16:34:34 :P Sep 17 16:34:55 Stskeeps, if you had upgraded to an LCD 4 years ago, you would've recouped the cost in electricity saving several times over. Sep 17 16:35:01 Stskeeps, I know what you mean...all my crts finally died horrible, slow deaths Sep 17 16:35:06 GeneralAntilles: oh, i don't get charged for electricity :P Sep 17 16:35:11 I'm lucky too, cause I have no desktop space for them Sep 17 16:35:13 very low flat rate Sep 17 16:35:21 rm_you: pong Sep 17 16:42:11 back Sep 17 16:42:14 -303! Sep 17 16:42:27 Isn't it fun to watch, in a weird macabre way? Sep 17 16:46:43 can the default media player or canola play http streams from vlc? Sep 17 16:46:48 RST38h, how is it where you are? Sep 17 16:47:22 my crt died violently too Sep 17 16:47:23 with the mother board, and all thing plugged in the electric plug in my student appartement Sep 17 16:49:23 RST38h, so what do you think? time to buy in yet? Sep 17 16:49:53 nokia stock? :P Sep 17 16:50:18 I think the DOW is what he's on about Sep 17 16:50:25 ah Sep 17 16:50:31 took awhile to figure out that wasn't just a random number :) Sep 17 16:51:44 johnx: also not good Sep 17 16:52:24 johnx: government stopped trading for a few hours, reopened it, and MMVB-3%, RTS-6% Sep 17 16:52:57 ick Sep 17 16:52:57 johnx: I dunno. Looks like this is not the end of the descent Sep 17 16:55:39 ha! my bank is getting screwed too Sep 17 16:56:20 johnx: if this goes for a few more days, there is a good chance that Putin says "ok, we tried market economy and it did not work out" and just tells the government to buy whatever remains of the stocks, wholesale Sep 17 16:56:36 and puts back communism into place saying they were just hibernating? :P Sep 17 16:56:40 that would be fun Sep 17 16:56:45 RST38h, seriously? Sep 17 16:56:56 sts: more or less, although it is socialism, basically Sep 17 16:57:05 johnx: yes. Sep 17 16:57:08 O_o Sep 17 16:57:24 johnx: they have got the money - 3rd place in gold reserves in the world Sep 17 16:57:38 ahaha...Japan Tobacco is up. Stressed out bank execs need to smoke :D Sep 17 16:57:41 RST38h, gold is down though... Sep 17 16:58:03 johnx: it'll be up in no time now =) Sep 17 17:01:19 NOK 5,69% down Sep 17 17:02:31 As a side note, Obama is up Sep 17 17:04:21 * johnx_ wonders about currency values as modest builds Sep 17 17:09:04 Someone have ten minutes to help me ? Sep 17 17:09:10 johnx: ruble has been down but is now floating around 25.5/$ Sep 17 17:09:15 khetan:? Sep 17 17:09:29 mCalendar icon doesn t appear in the tasknav Sep 17 17:09:38 and i don t understand why Sep 17 17:09:58 i think it s .desktop problem Sep 17 17:10:11 johnx: euro appears to be up relative to $ Sep 17 17:10:14 but after refine and revise it again and again Sep 17 17:10:24 i ve still the same problem Sep 17 17:10:26 Khertan: on the left side, where running apps icons are? Sep 17 17:10:39 RST38h: yep Sep 17 17:10:48 not a .desktop problem Sep 17 17:10:56 you have to report your app name to gtk Sep 17 17:10:57 hum really ? Sep 17 17:10:59 a second Sep 17 17:11:05 arg ... Sep 17 17:11:09 this suck Sep 17 17:11:17 i blank it Sep 17 17:11:28 /* Initialize GTK and GLib type system */ Sep 17 17:11:28 gtk_init(&ARGC,&ARGV); Sep 17 17:11:28 g_type_init(); Sep 17 17:11:39 the first line (gtk_init) is what you need Sep 17 17:11:43 as when creating window with Hildon window and python Sep 17 17:11:44 binding Sep 17 17:12:01 you have to do it somehow Sep 17 17:12:07 if you don t clear the name, it show the name of the python file + the name of the window Sep 17 17:12:16 or it won't know what icon to show Sep 17 17:12:29 hum i will try ... thx Sep 17 17:12:40 fake argc/argv for it Sep 17 17:12:44 i think too it could be a dbus things Sep 17 17:14:40 gtk.set_application_name('mCalendar') Sep 17 17:14:43 seems to be not enoughn Sep 17 17:15:31 no, you need to pass argc/argv to gtk_init Sep 17 17:17:32 jott: reping Sep 17 17:17:56 rm_you: what's up? :) Sep 17 17:18:32 we're going for food and a pint. Sep 17 17:18:40 aye. where to? Sep 17 17:19:03 irish pub next to the hotel here Sep 17 17:19:37 in the shopping center belw the hotel Sep 17 17:20:05 hmm, alright. i think i'll come around. when are you there? Sep 17 17:20:49 Hi there Sep 17 17:21:07 Khertan: set_title() could be what you're looking for Sep 17 17:21:12 going now. be there for a while. i can call you on timeless' phone in a bit Sep 17 17:21:59 set_title doesn t seems to work for icon Sep 17 17:22:26 ah, ok haven't really tried Sep 17 17:22:47 osso_initialize() had something? Sep 17 17:23:29 hello GNUton Sep 17 17:24:19 Kherton, gtk_init Sep 17 17:24:37 Khertan: it makes no sense to try other ways. I have already tried them all :) Sep 17 17:25:27 you don't really call gtk_init directly in pygtk? Sep 17 17:25:36 but i don t understand as i don t set it on pygtkediotr and it s work Sep 17 17:25:57 and i ven t found how to call gtk_init in python way Sep 17 17:30:37 hi folks Sep 17 17:30:50 Khertan_n810: you have specified service file in mcalendar.desktop but there is no .service file with that name Sep 17 17:30:59 Khertan: I am sure python calls it for you implicitely Sep 17 17:32:04 mikkov_: usr/share/dbus-1/services/mcalendar.service Sep 17 17:32:07 not here ? Sep 17 17:32:27 n00b question: as it seems there is no resolvconf (the program, not the resolv.conf file) on maemo, how is one supposed to add a nameserver dynamically (trying to setup openvpn)? Sep 17 17:33:34 Khertan_n810: ah, ok I was looking for net.khertan.mcalendar. Forgot difference between service name and actual file ;) Sep 17 17:33:49 :) Sep 17 17:36:48 noob q -- when you boot a different kernel using the flasher, do you lose access to your media cards? Sep 17 17:37:08 sorry 3g connection drop sometimes Sep 17 17:38:33 modest is not a small app... Sep 17 17:39:10 chrisv: you could try some hackery with up and down scripts if you know dns servers beforehand Sep 17 17:39:22 i ll say more : modest is the best mobile email client i have ever see Sep 17 17:40:16 Khertan, you and me are the only 2 people who think that... Sep 17 17:40:29 chrisv: this could also be helpful https://garage.maemo.org/forum/forum.php?thread_id=3286&forum_id=2715 Sep 17 17:41:24 mikkov: thx, that dnsmasq thing seems to be exactly what I was looking for Sep 17 17:41:40 johnx,Khertan: you are Sep 17 17:41:53 it's awful, mostly because of the bugs Sep 17 17:42:30 but a non-proportional font setting and the ability to see *all* your accounts at the left would also help it Sep 17 17:42:45 RST38h: i don t see bugs ... Sep 17 17:42:58 ok sometimes a killall modest help Sep 17 17:43:23 there are bugs...it's just better than anything *else* Sep 17 17:43:38 (a connection drop while retrieving a mail can freeze the retrieving process) Sep 17 17:43:39 mutt :) Sep 17 17:43:51 Pyne4Maemo :) Sep 17 17:44:04 not bugged ... but less function Sep 17 17:44:14 heh...the big win for modest is that it's thumb-friendly Sep 17 17:44:16 no ssl Sep 17 17:44:20 no imap Sep 17 17:44:44 and have a great interface Sep 17 17:45:26 simple ... and not many click are requirement to do sample thing Sep 17 17:45:38 s/requirement/required Sep 17 17:45:47 s/sample/simple Sep 17 17:45:55 s/thing/things Sep 17 17:45:57 :) Sep 17 17:46:14 exactly. it covers 90% of my usage while mobile Sep 17 17:51:15 i like the treo keyboard far better Sep 17 17:51:35 but its too od for a device as large as a tablet Sep 17 17:52:01 I like the zaurus 5500 keyboard best...but maybe I'm weird Sep 17 17:52:17 ...for treo-sized keyboards Sep 17 17:52:29 and the zaurus c1000 keyboard for bigger ones Sep 17 17:53:11 i like the one from the n810 Sep 17 17:53:37 anyway i ve never try the keyboard of the 5500 Sep 17 17:53:51 but i know i don t like the treo one Sep 17 17:55:15 and modest built! Sep 17 17:59:22 mutt supports ssl as does stunnel Sep 17 17:59:33 PINE. Sep 17 17:59:38 * RST38h wants his PINE. Sep 17 17:59:56 * johnx_ hits RST38h with a PINE Sep 17 18:00:02 uw bleh, not free enough Sep 17 18:00:12 Microsoft Almost Bought Nintendo, And More Revelations by Peter Moore [Microsoft] Sep 17 18:00:18 scary shit Sep 17 18:00:50 * RST38h has no problem with "not free". It is free if they let me use it for free and do not bugger me Sep 17 18:01:01 RST38h: ? Sep 17 18:01:21 strange maybe join #warez instead Sep 17 18:01:38 dystopia: I did not mention "steal" anywhere Sep 17 18:01:54 uw lets me use PINE for free. No stealing involved. Sep 17 18:01:55 "steal" Sep 17 18:02:06 if you want scary proza try halloween files ;-) Sep 17 18:02:25 yea, but MS buying Nintendo - horror! Sep 17 18:02:28 why not just use mutt? Sep 17 18:02:36 not used to it, that's all Sep 17 18:02:43 rst38h : a rumor ? Sep 17 18:02:44 or sth else actively mantained Sep 17 18:02:45 would probably use it otherwise Sep 17 18:02:49 or for real Sep 17 18:02:58 consider muttlikepine Sep 17 18:03:10 Khertan: http://gizmodo.com/5051146/microsoft-almost-bought-nintendo-and-more-revelations-by-peter-moore Sep 17 18:03:54 glad they didn't, now we have the Wii Sep 17 18:05:40 http://tservice.net.ru/~s0mbre/blog/2008/09/17/ Sep 17 18:06:57 oooh...the new gumstix Sep 17 18:07:01 didn't know about that Sep 17 18:07:32 hehe, that looks cute Sep 17 18:08:11 18 juil 2007 peter moore leave microsoft for EA Sport Sep 17 18:08:19 not really a fresh news Sep 17 18:08:21 :) Sep 17 18:14:04 hi Sep 17 18:14:16 hello Sep 17 18:14:18 what have people been thinking about the page 3 on aris slides? Sep 17 18:14:39 http://www.slideshare.net/silpol/nokia-and-maemo-next-iteration-presentation/ Sep 17 18:14:56 I think HSDPA sounds expensive. Sep 17 18:15:03 the hot debate involves HSPA Sep 17 18:15:11 some love it, some hate it Sep 17 18:15:19 I'm interested to know if we'll be getting a RAM upgrade. Sep 17 18:15:34 me? I'm against sharing photos. Stealing souls is the devil's work! Sep 17 18:15:42 i m more interested by the slide page 6 Sep 17 18:15:43 Micron only offers a 256MB PoP without the NAND. Sep 17 18:15:44 GeneralAntilles, my sources say no Sep 17 18:15:51 more at the devsesh 5 :) Sep 17 18:16:00 johnx_, it depends. Sep 17 18:16:29 HSPA would be nice Sep 17 18:17:00 well, wimax is not so wide spread, and there seems to be unlimited data plans all over the place these days Sep 17 18:17:13 at least to me that sounds pretty good. Sep 17 18:17:15 HSPA without a huge price hike would be nice. so would a free lunch. too bad neither exist... Sep 17 18:17:32 konttori, data'll be at least $30/mo. Sep 17 18:17:36 Here in the US. Sep 17 18:17:45 That's more than I want to pay. Sep 17 18:17:51 we have in finland 9 euros per month unlimited data on 3g Sep 17 18:18:13 I wouldn't care so much if they were offering a tablet WITHOUT the HSPA modem that I'm not going to use. . . . Sep 17 18:18:20 But it doesn't sound particularly promising. Sep 17 18:18:27 how about the omap3? Sep 17 18:18:32 Hmm.. Data is 25 EUR here, I only cancelled it some days ago because of my mofo stupid f..ing carrier. Sep 17 18:18:45 Eh, that's been expected for a while. Sep 17 18:18:52 Nothing new there. Sep 17 18:18:57 konttori: expected - just hoping the battery life is just as good :P Sep 17 18:19:06 Stskeeps, it will be. Sep 17 18:19:15 Well, we've got two extra cores in the game. Sep 17 18:19:23 So the high-usage scenario may be a bit shorter Sep 17 18:19:32 well, I would expect that the battery life would be. I don't think nokia would unlearn the linux power management overnight Sep 17 18:19:33 but regular use should be the same life, if not better. Sep 17 18:19:51 Well, OMAP3 has almost the same consumption figures as OMAP2 Sep 17 18:19:58 at 2-3x the performance. :D Sep 17 18:20:49 sure. and that sounds pretty nice for flash on the browser Sep 17 18:21:10 and video! and games! Sep 17 18:21:13 Flashy UI compositing effects. Sep 17 18:21:18 do they mention anything about which omap3? Sep 17 18:21:24 No Sep 17 18:21:32 But there's pretty much no chance it wont be the OMAP3430 Sep 17 18:21:43 But there's pretty much no chance it wont be the OMAP3440 is really a UMPC chip Sep 17 18:21:55 data plans are cheap nowadays Sep 17 18:22:04 and the OMAP3420 and OMAP3410 are missing cores/have smaller LCD controllers. Sep 17 18:22:10 dystopia, not cheap enough. Sep 17 18:22:16 and more expensive than just tethering for me. Sep 17 18:22:26 then you go tether:-) Sep 17 18:22:38 and pay for an HSPA modem I wont use. Sep 17 18:22:45 so, are you saying it's either 3430 or 3440? Sep 17 18:22:46 * GeneralAntilles doesn't like paying for hardware that wont be used. Sep 17 18:22:50 or don't buy the device Sep 17 18:22:55 konttori, there's pretty much no chance of it being OMAP3440 Sep 17 18:23:00 oh i get that all the time Sep 17 18:23:09 ah. so, that leaves 3430? Sep 17 18:23:10 i get software free when i buy hardware Sep 17 18:23:10 It's almost certainly (like, 99%) that it'll be OMAP3430 Sep 17 18:23:15 nero, for example Sep 17 18:23:18 or windows Sep 17 18:23:26 OMAP3430 is 600MHz, OMAP3440 is 800MHz Sep 17 18:23:37 or SD card, or cables, or car mount kit Sep 17 18:23:38 The voltage bump to get 800MHz is less than trivial. Sep 17 18:24:13 So, anything new on that Jaaksi speech? Sep 17 18:24:35 RST38h, did you see the slides or the blog post? Sep 17 18:24:45 yes, but slide look very generic Sep 17 18:24:51 http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/ Sep 17 18:24:53 nothing in them really Sep 17 18:25:10 Well, they summarize the content of the speech pretty nicely. Sep 17 18:25:12 so, 3430 cannot be run on any greater speed than 600? Sep 17 18:25:35 Stskeeps, modest runs ok with different gtk themes...though it's missing a huge chunk of icons Sep 17 18:25:46 konttori, well, the Pandora guys got the OMAP3530 (same chip, except missing a couple interfaces and slightly larger ball-pitch) up to 900MHz Sep 17 18:25:52 and since it's coded with only the hildon theme in mind some widgets are mis-sized Sep 17 18:26:06 It can be overclocked, but the chance of it just up and dying one day goes up fairly significantly. Sep 17 18:26:44 BTW, those 900MHz or 600MHz will do you no good if your SDRAM is clocked at 100MHz Sep 17 18:27:01 and nokia will definitely ship a smaller, tighter system with less room for heat to go Sep 17 18:27:06 Unless, of course, you are running some video decoder that fits into cache, with data Sep 17 18:27:09 133MHz, RST38h. Sep 17 18:27:20 johnx_: sounds interesting Sep 17 18:27:25 GAN: Low :( Cache sizes in these chips? Sep 17 18:27:37 * GeneralAntilles brainfarts. Sep 17 18:28:18 * GeneralAntilles digs up the Beagle hardware reference. Sep 17 18:28:21 Found it Sep 17 18:28:22 L1: 32 KB (ARM Cortex-A8) Sep 17 18:28:34 L2: 96 KB (DSP),256 KB (ARM Cortex-A8) Sep 17 18:28:42 256kB L2 is nice Sep 17 18:29:22 Does not tell clocks per access for these though and whether they are joint or separate caches Sep 17 18:30:02 Ah, found it. L1: 4-way associative 16kB I and D caches Sep 17 18:30:14 johnx_: screenshot? Sep 17 18:30:48 RST38h, this may be meaningful to you: http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/browse_thread/thread/12c7bd415fbc0993/456fd8eda1edde8e?lnk=gst&q=memory#456fd8eda1edde8e Sep 17 18:31:09 256kB L2 cache is unified Sep 17 18:32:41 GAN: Seeing how far his C and Simd figures are, he is measuring code executing time =) Sep 17 18:32:50 Hi, all. Such a question. How much tome does it take to fully charge your Nokia N810 from zero? Sep 17 18:33:01 how much time Sep 17 18:33:05 hung_andrew, 30 minutes to 80%, 2.5 hours to 100% Sep 17 18:33:18 Later he quotes 168MB/s and 190MB/s Sep 17 18:33:21 2-3 hours total. Sep 17 18:33:54 thank you all, this is my first N810 charging Sep 17 18:33:56 Stskeeps, finding a section of my mail I don't mind putting in a screenie :) Sep 17 18:34:12 His effective rate is 47.5 million accesses per second Sep 17 18:34:22 johnx_: viagra spam ;) Sep 17 18:34:42 Well, it probably comes down to 133MHz you quoted Sep 17 18:38:50 btw, Ari may have let slip the new term. Sep 17 18:38:54 "multimedia computer" Sep 17 18:39:35 that's .. so 90s? Sep 17 18:39:44 Stskeeps, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/modest-screenie.png Sep 17 18:39:54 GAN: This is the term they used to refer to N95 initially Sep 17 18:39:56 It is not new Sep 17 18:39:59 have to figure out why localization didn't take... Sep 17 18:40:03 johnx_: hehe, funky Sep 17 18:40:10 Yeah, "may" Sep 17 18:40:12 It's in the blog post. Sep 17 18:40:22 GAN: The had to scrap it last time as it confused potential buyers Sep 17 18:40:25 Stskeeps, yeah, but it works! Sep 17 18:40:39 johnx_: maybe localization is seperated out into sapwood too or something Sep 17 18:40:39 "What do you mean 'computer'? It is not a phone?" :) Sep 17 18:40:53 More appropriate for a tablet Sep 17 18:41:02 i think internet tablet would be just as good really, even with 3g :P Sep 17 18:41:16 yep, although somehow I doubt it will fly for the tablet either =( Sep 17 18:41:36 quite a lot of "normal people" (tm) consider computer dull Sep 17 18:41:39 Stskeeps, nah...sapwood is just for caching/drawing pixmaps...thank god Sep 17 18:41:58 N9/3=3G Sep 17 18:42:06 They should just call it a "magic box" Sep 17 18:42:22 The Pad! Sep 17 18:42:42 Just copy those damn StarTrek datapads already! =) Sep 17 18:42:52 they could call it the "NIT", where NIT would stand for NIT Is a Tablet Sep 17 18:42:54 think usability studies on those showed they were.. horrid Sep 17 18:42:55 :P Sep 17 18:43:09 NIT is a measurement unit for light, I think Sep 17 18:43:28 Sts: Actually, they have been designed for the series by a professional UI designer Sep 17 18:43:39 also a small bug, IIRC Sep 17 18:43:44 'just give me the box' Sep 17 18:43:51 Sts: this is why they look usable enoug Sep 17 18:44:07 ah Sep 17 18:44:22 or !Phone Sep 17 18:44:35 always funny to see the big, clunky computers of star trek from 10-15 years ago :) Sep 17 18:44:36 'shall i describe it to you, or do you need a box' bah im sure someone can come up with a good quote referring to device Sep 17 18:44:46 i call my tablet my device Sep 17 18:44:46 :P Sep 17 18:44:55 atleast when speaking to the gf.. Sep 17 18:44:56 :P Sep 17 18:45:04 N810 i call patched magic hat Sep 17 18:45:28 johnx_, it makes me sad that I can see that the datapads are just decals. :( Sep 17 18:45:31 N800 i refer to as twin towel Sep 17 18:45:36 Sts: at least you are not calling it your precioussss Sep 17 18:45:55 hihi:-) Sep 17 18:48:41 RST38h: .. sometimes ;> Sep 17 18:49:05 alright...got icons with the hildon-icons theme in debian Sep 17 18:49:19 I had localization working before in debian beta2 Sep 17 18:49:37 but for now, time to call it a night Sep 17 18:50:28 nini Sep 17 18:50:38 * Stskeeps goes rewrite the postdebootstrap part of installer Sep 17 18:51:17 heh...even the color select works for writing in annoying colors in your html emails Sep 17 18:51:20 w00! Sep 17 18:51:24 * johnx_ really sleeps Sep 17 18:54:31 Hello, again. How long does it take to flash my N810 tablet to RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14 under Windows? Sep 17 18:54:45 ~20 seconds for the flashing Sep 17 18:54:59 However long it takes you to download ~128MB to download ~128MB Sep 17 18:55:51 cool. thank you all, guys Sep 17 19:43:02 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3560#add_comment Sep 17 19:43:08 * GeneralAntilles shakes his head. Sep 17 19:45:03 jott, are you about Sep 17 19:49:03 Christ Sep 17 19:49:04 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3722 Sep 17 19:49:16 When you do unsupported things, you get unsupported behaviors. Sep 17 19:50:02 you searched for 'red pill'? :P Sep 17 19:50:40 No, it was in the recent changes search. Sep 17 19:51:34 doesn't red pill just give more trouble than gain really? i mean, from what i understand of it, it just converts app manager into synaptic with all gory details on Sep 17 19:51:40 and that's for people who can't do apt-get Sep 17 19:51:40 :P Sep 17 19:53:01 Yes, only people who understand it should use it Sep 17 19:53:05 and he clearly doesn't understand it. Sep 17 19:53:16 GeneralAntilles, another similar bug reported for him: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3463 Sep 17 19:53:23 yerga, he's full of them. Sep 17 19:55:20 GeneralAntilles: meh, re 3722 it's reasonable enough to request that it be documented on the red pill page in the wiki Sep 17 19:55:45 That's hardly a bugzilla issue. Sep 17 19:56:06 shruggery Sep 17 19:56:26 I'm probably a bit biased against him Sep 17 19:56:37 as I'm really goddamn tired of his endless streams of useless bugs. Sep 17 19:57:13 "Let's put 6 issues into 1 bug report, then whine about 3 other unrelated things." Sep 17 19:57:20 almost useless is ok Sep 17 19:57:27 yeah, the presentation isn't optimal Sep 17 19:57:39 It wouldn't be so bad if he'd figure it out. Sep 17 19:58:31 They're the type of bugs that require the maximum amount of effort from the triager. Sep 17 19:58:40 They're not quite bad enough that you can just mark them as INVALID Sep 17 19:59:01 but they're not quite good enough that making useful bugs out of them is a reasonable proposition. Sep 17 20:14:18 GeneralAntilles: will you be on summit? Sep 17 20:14:38 Nah, not making this one. Sep 17 20:52:19 bye Sep 17 20:55:37 http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/service_break_23_9_2008.html Sep 17 20:56:47 Hello, lardman__. Sep 17 20:57:16 hi GeneralAntilles Sep 17 20:57:27 it's been a long day, home at last :) Sep 17 20:57:45 lardman__: Looked at the QR code stuff I checked in yet? Sep 17 20:58:08 derf: I've been at a conf I'm afraid, hardly had time to check my email Sep 17 20:59:14 lardman__, I was noticing that the sprint review is still planned for Friday on the wiki. Sep 17 20:59:18 Somebody should poke Quim about that. Sep 17 20:59:31 Somehow I don't think a ~1-2 hour review is gonna fit into that tight schedule. Sep 17 21:00:57 lardman__: That's why I'm poking you about it now. Sep 17 21:01:31 derf: I'm not going to get a chance before I go I wouldn;t think Sep 17 21:01:44 derf: but will try to take a look tomorrow before if I have time Sep 17 21:01:58 * lcuk should be asleep now Sep 17 21:02:08 hi lardman__ :) Sep 17 21:02:34 hi lcuk Sep 17 21:02:40 lcuk: you over there already? Sep 17 21:03:01 no - io have a flight at 745 tomorrow mornin Sep 17 21:03:12 Ouch Sep 17 21:03:15 im trying to find out how long before i have to be at airport Sep 17 21:03:30 that's a shame. still being in the north that is. Sep 17 21:03:38 :p Sep 17 21:03:47 ok, finally caught modest hanging Sep 17 21:03:56 any pointers on how to import the phone book of my s40 phone into the tablet contacts system? Sep 17 21:03:58 it does say last checkin 30mins before - can i trust that and get there for about 630 ? Sep 17 21:04:05 looks like it does not like when the wifi connection breaks while it is checking for email Sep 17 21:04:18 in this case it gets stuck and stays stuck until killed Sep 17 21:04:27 lcuk: who you flying with Sep 17 21:04:46 Lufthansa Sep 17 21:04:49 cheapo airlines will refuse to board you if *their* watch says 30 mins... Sep 17 21:05:01 tuukkah, vcards? Sep 17 21:05:07 it's not worth pushing the limits... Sep 17 21:05:10 right, so if i give myself 60minutes i should be ok Sep 17 21:05:30 flight depart 745. i arrive at airport at 630 ;) Sep 17 21:05:33 Lufthansa eek Sep 17 21:05:43 its even worse, its a frikkin minibus Sep 17 21:05:53 lcuk: add 45 minutes for the anal cavity check! Sep 17 21:06:01 lol Sep 17 21:06:03 im not goin to america Sep 17 21:06:10 good point Sep 17 21:06:10 [or whatever those security people do to passengers nowadays] Sep 17 21:06:44 ok, what time would you lot aim to be at the airport for a 7:45 flight.. ? Sep 17 21:06:56 2 hours in advance at least Sep 17 21:07:00 ^ Sep 17 21:07:05 typically 2 hrs Sep 17 21:07:15 GeneralAntilles, do you know how to get the vcards out of the phone? Sep 17 21:07:17 if it is a us airport - 3 hours Sep 17 21:07:18 * lcuk sets his clock for 5:15 Sep 17 21:07:24 tuukkah, Bluetooth? Sep 17 21:07:41 Maybe a memory card if you've got the right cards/adaptors. Sep 17 21:07:45 thats more sleep than i normally get in a workday! Sep 17 21:07:51 hey lcuk is slashdot's main page down? Sep 17 21:08:09 fine this end Sep 17 21:08:30 gulp! i just clicked for plane info on the checkmytrip page, it says "Aircraft Info close Sep 17 21:08:30 This Aircraft is not supported. " Sep 17 21:08:32 GeneralAntilles, would be cool if the file manager showed the contacts as a file on the phone... Sep 17 21:08:33 slashdot down? OMFG..... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Sep 17 21:08:47 *phew*, still working here Sep 17 21:08:49 lbt, hit refresh a few hundred times ;) or build a script Sep 17 21:09:01 darn you lbt. getting me all worried like that! ;) Sep 17 21:09:13 ah were lufthansa todays airline? Sep 17 21:09:31 this is how serious DOS attacks start you know - whisper campaigns - soon it will be in the news and millions of geeks will be hittin refresh on the slash homepage Sep 17 21:09:49 not if it's down Sep 17 21:10:00 then the geeks are in the dark Sep 17 21:10:25 actually telnet slashdot.org 80 doesn't connect either... Sep 17 21:10:49 what does it resolve to? 216.34.181.45 Sep 17 21:11:02 you havent put some kind of anti-time waste program on :D Sep 17 21:11:07 GeneralAntilles, for each contact on the phone, i can send it as MMS or SMS , or over infrared or bluetooth. the tablet doesn't know how to receive those Sep 17 21:11:28 no, 216.34.181.48 Sep 17 21:11:46 gnokii can backup the contacts, but it has its own format Sep 17 21:11:49 you are stale and out of date :P Sep 17 21:11:57 hmm, I was playing with DNS at the weekend Sep 17 21:12:05 whilst rebuilding my array *AGAIN* Sep 17 21:12:08 then unplay Sep 17 21:12:21 djdns soon... Sep 17 21:13:14 * lcuk doesnt wanna put his zippo into his main luggage :( Sep 17 21:13:28 but i hated to see it violated and stripsearched by the french Sep 17 21:14:12 strap it to your nokia with some wires... what could possibly go wrong Sep 17 21:14:16 tonight is the first night ive not wanted to hack at liqbase :) Sep 17 21:14:25 nahh Sep 17 21:14:44 ive lost my emergency charger though - i dunno what im gonna do Sep 17 21:16:30 7 hours and then it starts Sep 17 21:22:28 oh, wow, unlike what the man page says, gnokii has the option to use vcard format for the phone book =) Sep 17 21:22:28 ah : added Netfilter auto-block against 216.34.181.45 for 604800 seconds Sep 17 21:24:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PRVkUe5tzE Sep 17 21:26:15 Slower than Fennec? Sep 17 21:26:17 He's kidding, right? Sep 17 21:30:27 anyone know a VNC server that has a decent web viewer, all the ones I've used are very slow over web and I need something I can use at work and I hate using services like logmein.com Sep 17 21:42:35 ~lart TalkTalk Sep 17 21:42:35 * infobot says "boot to the head" and knocks TalkTalk over Sep 17 21:43:43 keep on disconnecting you? my cousin had to keep rebooting his talktalk router :/ Sep 17 21:45:04 qwerty12_N800: I have to talk to someone there; it was rock solid for a year, now really crappy Sep 17 21:45:45 I wonder if it conincides with my contract being up and my saying that I'd think about whether to sign up for another stint (nothing wrong with them, I just want channel 5 somehow and Bath is crap for freeview) Sep 17 21:45:50 hrm, makes me want to hear talk talk.. Sep 17 21:46:33 :(, I hope O² aren't crap. I telnetted into one of their thomson routers and instantly thought wtf Sep 17 21:47:06 btw N810 was great at the conf (free wifi), nice to sit there and check email Sep 17 21:47:30 browser still too memory heavy though Sep 17 21:47:31 qwerty12_N800: any idea on the current state of android on n8x0? Sep 17 21:47:54 rm_you: hmm, is that an answer ;) Sep 17 21:47:57 rm_you: no :/ Sep 17 21:48:11 qwerty12_N800: http://rafb.net/p/K8NFHM29.html <- <3 my new installer Sep 17 21:48:12 lol? Sep 17 21:48:18 slip of the stylus :) Sep 17 21:48:47 Stskeeps: that a question? :p Sep 17 21:49:05 lardman_: when are you arriving? or did you already and i diidn't realize it? lol Sep 17 21:49:19 qwerty12_N800: hehe, also in the apt-get part of it i've included download and repeat apt-get -d install if it doesnt work first time ;) Sep 17 21:49:25 lardman_, we're so close to huge memory usage improvements. . . . Sep 17 21:49:27 qwerty12_N800: for people with broken internet connections Sep 17 21:49:38 qwerty12_N800: .. can't get debootstrap to bloody report it didn't download a package Sep 17 21:49:58 crap, I can't get back to Bath from the airport on the way home Sep 17 21:50:01 Stskeeps: it does sound useful Sep 17 21:50:28 Stskeeps: can't you patch debootstrap yourself? Sep 17 21:50:38 qwerty12_N800: yeah, i'm inclined to do it Sep 17 21:51:33 that'll probably be a step once i get tired of debootstrap not resuming nicely :P (it does have --download-only but "unable to download package" is a bloody warnin Sep 17 21:51:36 g Sep 17 21:52:44 lardman: ? Sep 17 21:53:14 rm_you: just checking the public transport links Sep 17 21:53:21 and they don't link on the way back Sep 17 21:53:40 lardman_: when are you arriving? or did you already and i didn't realize it? Sep 17 21:53:57 rm_you: 9pm tomorrow night Sep 17 21:54:56 k Sep 17 21:55:40 there were a couple of guys asking dsp questions, so i told them to talk to you during the summit Sep 17 21:56:13 is there no bin/diff for the tablet? Sep 17 21:56:22 rm_you: cool, thanks Sep 17 21:56:48 GeneralAntilles: am I too late to do my bio? Sep 17 21:57:17 Friday is the presentation Sep 17 21:57:26 Tim's the one to talk to anyway. Sep 17 21:57:48 GAN800: I emailed him day before yesterday to say I was away, no reply that I've seen Sep 17 21:58:11 I'll send the info round our group anyway so hopefully he'll see it Sep 17 21:58:16 Jaffa might be easier to get ahold of Sep 17 21:58:20 probably as busy as I was at conference anyway Sep 17 21:58:36 Yeah, just add the info to Google Docs. Sep 17 21:58:54 GeneralAntilles: so have you persuaded someone to setup a portable webcam so you can be there? ;) Sep 17 21:59:08 Hehe Sep 17 21:59:11 + a speaker so we can hear your thoughts, parrot like# Sep 17 21:59:38 I wanna be a big hologram like Darth Vader. Sep 17 21:59:44 must be doable with one of the messenger apps, or even an ipcam Sep 17 21:59:48 lol Sep 17 22:00:00 so you've not made it to emperor yet then? ;) Sep 17 22:01:25 The Evil Emperor Palpatine is Texrat. Sep 17 22:01:28 from #3032 seems we're getting a diff with fremantle Sep 17 22:01:56 tuukkah, you'll be set by sometime next year, then. ;) Sep 17 22:02:50 GAN800, i'll have to work around, yes :-/ Sep 17 22:04:54 tuukkah: http://maemo.daylessday.org/repo/dists/chinook/user/binary-armel/diffutils-2.8.7.deb is what i use for diff personally Sep 17 22:06:28 robink: I'm back! (saw your comment in the irc logs :) Sep 17 22:08:03 GAN800: Weird, that GoogleDoc only showed your entry from my n810; from my pc I see it all Sep 17 22:08:05 I was confused Sep 17 22:09:43 Nothing new. :P ;) Sep 17 22:16:46 GAN800: I was wondering though Sep 17 22:17:03 GAN800: Google docs was very very slow on the N8x0 browser too :( Sep 17 22:17:29 It's a ridiculously heavy js app Sep 17 22:17:50 and the js engine we've got is way behind the times. Sep 17 22:18:01 yeah Sep 17 22:18:13 the browser still needs some useability love Sep 17 22:19:59 ~lart Talktalk many times over Sep 17 22:19:59 * infobot pulls out his louisville slugger and uses Talktalk many times over's head to break the homerun record Sep 17 22:20:22 Right, I've added some blurb Sep 17 22:20:29 time to see if I've got a better photo Sep 17 22:21:20 Don't get rid of the silly photo. Sep 17 22:21:27 I don't want to be the only one with a silly photo. :P Sep 17 22:25:31 can some one tell me how to update my path on my n810 for programs that i have in my /home/user directory Sep 17 22:25:54 thanks Stskeeps, have it now :-) Sep 17 22:29:43 any one? Sep 17 22:31:35 arl_ben, PATH is defined in /etc/profile Sep 17 22:32:49 ok so when i reboot it should be the same as when i edited it Sep 17 22:33:26 it's enough to open a new terminal Sep 17 22:33:43 ok Sep 17 22:34:39 thank you Sep 17 22:48:29 im back when i am not login in as root from using "sudo gainroot" my path is different how can i fix this Sep 17 22:49:00 vs non root Sep 17 22:51:40 night Sep 17 22:56:34 arl_ben, good questions. seems to be ugly, in /usr/sbin/gainroot Sep 17 23:02:15 so what should i do Sep 17 23:04:31 arl_ben, well, the simplest would be to edit that file and remember that the edits get lost whenever a new version of gainroot is installed Sep 17 23:05:08 ok Sep 17 23:05:10 thank you Sep 17 23:05:14 dare I try to join? Sep 17 23:06:18 so the n900 spec is out is it? Sep 17 23:06:22 lots to read on ITT Sep 17 23:06:39 oh, interesting Sep 17 23:06:48 lardman, no specs. Sep 17 23:07:00 ok, but omap3xxx? Sep 17 23:07:02 Just OMAP3, HSPA, HD camera. Sep 17 23:07:13 itT is mostly trash today. Sep 17 23:07:14 what's hspa? Sep 17 23:08:10 3G data Sep 17 23:08:12 so it has a phone in it? Sep 17 23:08:18 Data-only so far. Sep 17 23:08:39 Interesting, would be fine it it comes with a life-time contract Sep 17 23:08:52 Free HSPA for life? Sep 17 23:08:53 Ha. Sep 17 23:08:57 yeah! Sep 17 23:09:04 I want it too Sep 17 23:09:21 no really, there's some gadget around which offers it, probably just for the year though at a reasonable rate Sep 17 23:10:42 lardman: Hey! :-) Sep 17 23:10:50 hi robink Sep 17 23:11:18 http://www.pocketsurfer.co.uk/ was what I was thinking of Sep 17 23:11:19 lardman: Just got back from the city. Sep 17 23:11:41 I just got back from Macclesfield :) Sep 17 23:12:26 lardman: Do you live near Cheshire? Sep 17 23:12:36 No, in Bath Sep 17 23:12:48 just under 4hrs to get back :S Sep 17 23:13:10 lardman: Yikes. My commute was easier. Sep 17 23:13:35 Off to Berlin tomorrow, Holly's seen me for about 1hr all week Sep 17 23:14:03 Ha Sep 17 23:14:12 lardman: Is she coming with you to the summit? Sep 17 23:14:18 lardman's running up the relationship debt Sep 17 23:14:32 robink: Not this time round, she's got work to do Sep 17 23:14:48 GAN800: Well I proposed, so I reckon I'm still in credit; just Sep 17 23:15:08 pfft Sep 17 23:15:15 lol Sep 17 23:16:47 * lardman is reading the responses to the Ari talk, quite exciting :) Sep 17 23:22:23 lardman: Where are you reading this? Sep 17 23:22:33 ITT? Sep 17 23:23:24 yeah Sep 17 23:23:29 bathroom? Sep 17 23:23:34 lol Sep 17 23:23:38 no, N810 is flat Sep 17 23:24:35 Is the N810 WiMax edition shipping? Sep 17 23:24:51 no idea, no such thing over here aafaik Sep 17 23:24:56 wimax that is Sep 17 23:25:04 lardman: Ah Sep 17 23:26:03 Sprint is saying "Look at us! We're spending money on WiMax!" but no actual info about technology or deployment. Sep 17 23:26:47 I thought I read somewhere that that had fallen on its head? Or at least stalled for some reason? Sep 17 23:26:52 They're buying out clearwire and merging it with their upcoming network. Sep 17 23:27:00 lardman: News to me. Sep 17 23:27:10 I may have got the wrong end of the stick Sep 17 23:29:06 Well, networks are up and usable. Sep 17 23:29:25 Texrat brags about it every chance he gets. Sep 17 23:29:35 oh fair enough Sep 17 23:29:41 enough range to reach over here? ;) Sep 17 23:29:46 GAN800: Not sure if clearwire's current network is N810-compatible. Sep 17 23:29:51 ~nickometer k1Ng_L0u Sep 17 23:29:53 'k1Ng_L0u' is 52.000% lame, crashanddie Sep 17 23:30:07 I quite like the sound of a built-in 3G radio, sorry GeneralAntilles Sep 17 23:30:07 hola Sep 17 23:30:09 He's using it on a N810W in at least Dallas and Baltimore. Sep 17 23:30:26 GAN800: Clearwire? Sep 17 23:30:40 robink, I dunno. Sep 17 23:31:07 GAN800: Clearwire's current network is some weird Motorola thing. Sep 17 23:31:12 bed time for me, have a presentation to finish tomorrow! Sep 17 23:31:16 night chaps Sep 17 23:31:44 GAN800: Dallas and Baltimore are primarily Sprint testbeds. Sep 17 23:33:10 * tuukkah watching q&a linked: http://www.youtube.com/v/-PRVkUe5tzE Sep 17 23:35:25 The Fennec vs MicroB comment made me chuckle. Sep 17 23:35:32 Fennec is in no way shape or form faster than MicroB Sep 17 23:35:41 He's probably got AdBlock installed or some such nonsense. Sep 17 23:39:04 which reminds me i didn't get flashblock working properly on microb :-( Sep 17 23:40:31 Does anyone know if it's possible to use the N810W with Clearwire's network? Sep 17 23:41:04 Sprint hasn't rolled out in my area, and it'll just be Seattle for a while when they do. Sep 17 23:41:20 Don't know, I asked them if they required their own hardware on my machine Sep 17 23:41:34 and they said yes, so I didn't investigate any further Sep 17 23:41:37 qnr: Ah. Sep 17 23:42:22 might be possible if you're technically inclined, but there are a number of free wifi areas in my town so it wasn't so urgent Sep 17 23:42:46 qnr: Ah. Sep 17 23:45:47 http://bundyo.org/maemo/site/ Sep 17 23:45:50 Nice Sep 17 23:46:20 ok. which one of you did sarah palin's yahoo account Sep 17 23:46:41 it's weird but it works: if you install adblock, flashblock starts to work properly too! :-) Sep 17 23:46:57 AdBlock nukes performance. Sep 17 23:48:03 have you tried to have it installed but disabled? Sep 17 23:49:06 Haven't bothered. Sep 17 23:49:24 Flash is off, ads are handled through hosts/css. Sep 17 23:50:40 work for anyone ? http://wikileaks.org/ Sep 17 23:53:33 elekt: Not I. Sep 17 23:53:50 it's the sarah palin thing isn't it Sep 17 23:54:14 the uk one is down too, but i dunno if it's a mirror or just domain Sep 18 00:01:46 I called clearwire and they said I could use the N810W. Sep 18 00:01:47 ... Sep 18 00:02:22 So I'm not sure. When I talked to them online a few months ago they intimated there'd be a problem. Sep 18 00:35:20 GeneralAntilles, contacts successfully imported the result of gnokii --getphonebook ME 1 end --vcard >phonebook.vcf Sep 18 01:00:49 would it be hard to run a script in osso_xterm every time it starts like a welcome greeting? Sep 18 01:10:00 b1ackdeath, one possibility would be to run it in /etc/profile when TERM is xterm Sep 18 01:10:35 b1ackdeath: Or whatever BusyBox sources in the homedir. Sep 18 01:12:49 last time i tryed that and it woulnt alow me to open up a xterm Sep 18 01:18:51 what happened to http://mxr.maemo.org/? Sep 18 01:19:57 Anyone know the status of a Speex codec for the c55x? Sep 18 01:22:01 Sppex compiles on the c55x, AFAIK. Sep 18 01:22:05 *Speex Sep 18 01:22:28 You'd just have to do the glue bits to get data in and out of the media framework. Sep 18 02:27:12 timeless: yt? Sep 18 02:46:12 Khertan, ping Sep 18 02:47:24 Hey Sep 18 02:52:06 derf: Doesn't the c55x just do a MAC and not much else? Sep 18 02:52:29 Bah, I miss lardman already. Sep 18 02:54:30 night Sep 18 02:54:56 lopz: 'night **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 18 02:59:57 2008