**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 24 02:59:57 2008 Sep 24 03:01:02 summatusmentis, I go to the university of maine at orono, yeah.. Sep 24 03:01:33 Grackle: I'm from there, or about 45 minutes north Sep 24 03:01:53 Hah, no kidding. What town? Sep 24 03:02:46 Sebec, right near Dover-Foxcroft? Sep 24 03:03:41 Ah, I know Dover-Foxcroft. Well that's neat.. You're the about the fourth Mainer I've met on the internet :P Sep 24 03:37:31 yawn Sep 24 04:04:33 Grackle: sorry, wasn't paying attention. How do you know Dover? Sep 24 04:06:44 I know where it is on the map, that's about it. Sep 24 04:07:14 haha, oh Sep 24 05:29:02 oh hi Sep 24 05:29:37 the gnomes under my bed say hi Sep 24 05:31:00 feed 'em more mushrooms Sep 24 05:31:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIIcovOOqAE Sep 24 05:31:07 o.O Sep 24 05:31:16 oh wrong chan lol Sep 24 05:32:58 give us all your keys Sep 24 05:33:34 scary shit Sep 24 05:33:50 poisonous too Sep 24 05:34:06 unless you are talking about gnomes Sep 24 05:35:38 perfect for toilet bombings Sep 24 05:35:42 i cracked a password off of a managed dell switch today Sep 24 05:36:10 fiekia: good boy, take a hamburger Sep 24 05:36:24 om nom nom nom Sep 24 05:36:43 and clean up the mess Sep 24 05:36:51 you made while cracking the dell Sep 24 05:37:30 did you know dell powerconnect emulates the ios console??? Sep 24 05:37:49 those.. emulators Sep 24 05:37:55 go original Sep 24 05:38:12 i know other switches do too but they are usually made by people who have left cisco Sep 24 05:38:59 like juniper or something... actually i havdent a clue about juniper Sep 24 05:39:16 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1060130/YouTube-gunman-kills-students-set-free-police-school-rampage.html Sep 24 05:39:17 huh Sep 24 05:39:21 so how about that shoddy gps Sep 24 05:39:31 finnish guy is at it again Sep 24 05:39:43 fiekia: in n810? Sep 24 05:39:51 yea Sep 24 05:39:59 depends on visibility/e-m noise in your area Sep 24 05:40:31 although i have played only one evening with it Sep 24 05:40:38 it worked ok in my apartment Sep 24 05:40:44 i wish it wered more sensitive Sep 24 05:40:59 orlly???? Sep 24 05:41:06 well Sep 24 05:41:07 kind of Sep 24 05:41:15 <1m from window it worked ok Sep 24 05:41:23 i deleted the default mapping software Sep 24 05:42:16 i managed to maintain signal indoors after aquiring a signal outside Sep 24 05:43:38 im not sure if id rather spend my money on a bluetooth kb or bt gps Sep 24 05:44:05 Pittsburgh Public Schools officials have enacted a policy that sets 50 percent as the minimum score a student can receive for assignments, tests and other work. Sep 24 05:44:15 or what? Sep 24 05:44:42 you scored 49%! off to gitmo! Sep 24 05:44:44 "District spokeswoman Ebony Pugh said, the 50 percent minimum gives children a chance to catch up and a reason to keep trying." Sep 24 05:44:49 bwahaha Sep 24 05:44:59 With the first name "Ebony"... Sep 24 05:45:12 educational socialism Sep 24 05:45:50 educational inflation, I would say Sep 24 05:46:04 nah, that always existed Sep 24 05:46:25 in my parents' time an elementary school education was enough to get a reasonable job Sep 24 05:46:41 now it's getting so that a degree, or even a masters is the minimum Sep 24 05:48:52 and last name pony Sep 24 05:49:13 btw. do you know mr goodenough? Sep 24 05:49:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Goodenough Sep 24 05:49:56 wonder if it's a family name Sep 24 05:50:02 or just showing off Sep 24 05:55:20 Well, given that it is written all over his scientific papers... Sep 24 06:01:57 well, you could move to china and get a reasonable job making ipods Sep 24 06:03:37 you could not Sep 24 07:00:17 morning Sep 24 07:06:27 woop, internet Sep 24 07:18:29 johnx: got your beta3 in chroot use and wondering how could start services in chroot debian when main system diablo starts? Sep 24 07:18:44 morning Sep 24 07:19:00 mornin' Sep 24 07:19:01 ehlo xfade Sep 24 07:21:18 hey Thux. good timing Sep 24 07:21:53 hi Sep 24 07:22:18 thux, I would say just create a service in diablo that chroots into your debian chroot and starts services Sep 24 07:22:27 should be pretty straightforward Sep 24 07:22:34 hi Luria_ Sep 24 07:33:00 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/24/android_mojo/ Sep 24 07:33:13 Morning, all Sep 24 07:33:20 moo, jaffa Sep 24 07:33:24 yo Sep 24 07:33:27 RST38h, so what are your thoughts on android? Sep 24 07:33:31 mornin' Jaffa Sep 24 07:33:44 im thinking of getting a g1 just for the plan Sep 24 07:33:53 johnx: same as before - it won't unseat winmobile or symbian in its current state Sep 24 07:34:22 johnx: and it won't get a lot of developers, with its java-centered sdk and weird activity-based framework Sep 24 07:35:12 All things being as they are, Google will toy with it for a while and then close it down Sep 24 07:35:21 sigh... i'm having my fill of cli fun... this is like '92 all over again Sep 24 07:35:36 RST38h, do you think unseating WinMo and Symbian are its goals? Sep 24 07:35:48 it looks like a high-end feature phone to me Sep 24 07:35:55 no, grabbing the 80% of non feature phones is Sep 24 07:36:04 NO AUDIO JACK, johnx Sep 24 07:36:30 RST38h: did Java bite you as a child, or something? "won't get a lot of developers, with its java-centred sdk". ObjectiveC doesn't stop iPhone devs, and despite its crapness there are an *awful* lot of Java ME apps (all crap, admittedly) Sep 24 07:36:34 johnx: feature phones feel just fine without android *or* expensive handsets made by htc Sep 24 07:37:07 Jaffa: I have seen about 3-4 usable ME apps Sep 24 07:37:19 Jaffa: And even those are slow and prone to crashes Sep 24 07:37:27 and android doesnt require you to develop under a specific os Sep 24 07:37:46 * Jaffa didn't say they were good; he was debating your premise of Java == no-developers Sep 24 07:38:20 yeah, bejewled ftw Sep 24 07:38:22 Jaffa: Oh, there will be a lot of developers making another socila network app or another stupid tetris game Sep 24 07:38:25 RST38h, google isn't selling android to users. They're selling it to phone makers. Sep 24 07:38:38 johnx: won't fly either Sep 24 07:38:51 RST38h, I disagree with you there Sep 24 07:39:06 especially since I think they're hardly "selling" so much as "giving away" Sep 24 07:39:07 johnx: they have all got their own offerings not based on a third company apps suite Sep 24 07:39:42 Jaffa: There will not be: video players, video manipulation, emulators, dynamic games Sep 24 07:39:43 sigh... an android phone probably has more computing power than this machine... Sep 24 07:40:15 johnx: Read the article carefully. You will see that they are "giving away" a funny selection of features Sep 24 07:40:22 RST38h, yes there will be video players. It will be handled at a lower layer. canola is written in python but it calls a graphics library in C to do the heavy lifting Sep 24 07:40:49 johnx: "Handled at a lower layer" means "google has to provide codecs" Sep 24 07:40:57 johnx: How open is that? Sep 24 07:41:13 RST38h, not very open. that wasn't my point. :) Sep 24 07:41:13 RST38h: At OSiM they demoed a video player with alpha transparency Sep 24 07:41:29 Jaffa: Implemented using their public SDK? Sep 24 07:41:56 johnx: well, it was mine Sep 24 07:42:02 RST38h, their whole UI is written with their SDK Sep 24 07:42:02 RST38h: you keep changing your point: is it: there won't be any devs? there won't be any good apps except tetris games? there won't be any video players? there won't be any video players which don't use some form of library to do all the work? Sep 24 07:42:17 johnx: So? Sep 24 07:42:39 Jaffa: I do not consider authors of crappy ME apps "developers" Sep 24 07:42:49 lulz Sep 24 07:42:55 ok, let's agree to disagree Sep 24 07:42:55 Jaffa: Has my point become coherent now? Sep 24 07:43:06 developers developers developers Sep 24 07:43:21 You don't consider Java developers "developers", so you're argument is logically consistent (internally, at least) Sep 24 07:43:34 RST38h, no one will make you use an android-based phone. We promise to keep them away from you. :P Sep 24 07:43:46 Jaffa: No, as I said before, there are some useful, good (as far as ME allows) ME apps Sep 24 07:44:00 Jaffa: The percentage is extremely small though Sep 24 07:44:18 anyone which hdspa bands the htc dream uses/can use? Sep 24 07:44:29 johnx: Well, it is not like I expect to buy one. But you asked my opinion, so here it is. Sep 24 07:44:30 is it just tmobile's oddball 1700? Sep 24 07:44:44 uh, anyone know Sep 24 07:44:59 Well it has to be tmobile's Sep 24 07:45:04 RST38h, fair enough. Sep 24 07:45:18 johnx: E72/E75, on the other hand... Sep 24 07:45:23 right, but htc is the only company i know that makes a quadband hsdpa phone Sep 24 07:45:36 i was hoping the dream might have more than 1700mhz Sep 24 07:45:37 RST38h, nice phones. too expensive. Sep 24 07:45:42 Luria: Not a $179 one, I guess? Sep 24 07:45:53 yeah, actually Sep 24 07:45:57 att tile Sep 24 07:46:00 tilt Sep 24 07:46:10 johnx: Actualy, they will probably be in $350-$450 range. Not very expensive Sep 24 07:46:26 Luria: then there is a good chance G1 has the same hardware :) Sep 24 07:46:26 RST38h, is that with contract? or without? Sep 24 07:46:32 without Sep 24 07:46:36 johnx: You are forgetting where I live Sep 24 07:46:43 johnx: What contract? :) Sep 24 07:46:46 I've just added Penguinbait's blog to our planet. Nice to see him blog about cool stuff. Sep 24 07:46:56 RST38h, heh :P Sep 24 07:47:32 More concerned that the screen will be now-standard crappy 320x240. My E70 is 416x352 Sep 24 07:47:55 eh? Sep 24 07:47:56 RST38h - on which phone? Sep 24 07:48:00 480x320 Sep 24 07:48:07 just like the iphone Sep 24 07:48:27 HVGA != QVGA Sep 24 07:49:08 johnx: No, it does not go like that wiht Symbian ;) Sep 24 07:49:26 johnx: Original Symbian/S60 display was 176x208 pixels Sep 24 07:49:32 RST38h, aaah...still on about the e7x? Sep 24 07:49:55 johnx: They doubled it for S60e3 to save on software rehash Sep 24 07:50:07 I thought that was aimed at the goo-phone Sep 24 07:50:14 But then they saw that updating 416x352 is a bit slow and went with 320x240 Sep 24 07:50:35 goophone I do not care about, but if you care, it is 480x320 like iphone Sep 24 07:51:15 right, I thought you were saying it was 320x240 Sep 24 07:51:17 lost the thread of conversation Sep 24 07:51:51 thread or threat? Sep 24 07:52:52 are you threatening to talk to me? Sep 24 07:53:13 dunno. are you threatening to listen? Sep 24 07:53:26 nope :P Sep 24 07:53:31 there you go Sep 24 07:53:46 johnx: ok, btw should /proc be mounted in /chroot/proc ? Sep 24 07:54:08 thux, probably some apps will want it Sep 24 07:54:24 ok just like in pc Sep 24 07:54:53 so, i'm drawing some odd looks right now; im in a nyc cafe typing on a luggable. and since i cant get xorg working, im using bitchx and elinks in full ansi glory. Sep 24 07:54:56 thux, yup Sep 24 07:55:10 Luria, awesome Sep 24 07:55:25 someone asked me if im talking to the space shuttle. Sep 24 07:55:31 ahahaha Sep 24 07:55:32 haha Sep 24 07:56:35 better yet, i did this debian floppy install here over my etherlink 3 card. i knew holding onto isa cards would pay off some day. Sep 24 07:57:05 nifty looking machine, but strange innards. Sep 24 07:57:16 Luria, what is it? Sep 24 07:57:24 Oh, that brings back memories ;) Sep 24 07:57:25 I always like weird portable machines? Sep 24 07:57:42 airlink communications amd k6/366mhz, 128mb, 6.5gb Sep 24 07:58:23 it had a gpib isa cards, but i yanked that and put in the 3c509 Sep 24 07:59:09 wanted to keep both for use with my oscope, but it wont fit in the last isa slot b/c of the cpu/ram daughter card Sep 24 07:59:42 there is a four slot backplane, one of which has a four slot isa riser Sep 24 08:00:35 just arrived today off ebay Sep 24 08:00:59 when you say "luggable" do you mean big laptop or small desktop? Sep 24 08:01:14 16lbs, no battery Sep 24 08:01:28 well, you'll get a workout Sep 24 08:01:34 detachable clicky keyboard Sep 24 08:01:46 with real keys Sep 24 08:02:31 also, the cpu daughtercard has a pc104 socket Sep 24 08:02:44 which is interesting, but useless Sep 24 08:02:56 that's pretty strange Sep 24 08:03:36 yeah i imagine they just repurposed a pc104 board for the daughter card and had an isa bridge tacked on Sep 24 08:05:06 still thinking about how to do wifi on this. my best idea involves putting a router inside the case and drawing off the 5v rail, and wiring the ethernet cable to it Sep 24 08:06:03 what about isa -> pcmcia -> cf wifi ? Sep 24 08:06:05 or are you out of isa slots now? Sep 24 08:06:28 thought of that, but im not sure a pcmcia host card will fit Sep 24 08:06:46 i am, but i could pop the 3c509 Sep 24 08:06:55 and switch between ethernet and wifi Sep 24 08:07:54 but the idea of having a wifi router internally is kinda neat, especially if it has two wifi radios Sep 24 08:08:14 heh Sep 24 08:08:17 portable instant wifi vampire Sep 24 08:08:31 lots of wifi routers these days are almost as powerful as your k6 :D Sep 24 08:08:48 probably more so :-) Sep 24 08:09:04 you could farm out some apps to the router and use the luggable as an x terminal Sep 24 08:09:14 ya'know...if you get x working Sep 24 08:09:14 lol Sep 24 08:09:30 weird graphic card. actually, i have two cards Sep 24 08:09:44 one vga on the cpu card Sep 24 08:09:58 one vga driving the tft Sep 24 08:10:13 the latter is odd. i think its actually dvi Sep 24 08:10:25 probably not dvi Sep 24 08:10:32 probably something similar though Sep 24 08:10:49 possibly. Sep 24 08:11:00 bios is 1999, so who knows. Sep 24 08:12:15 I'm surprised it was isa slots Sep 24 08:12:22 I figured it would have at least 2 or 3 pci slots Sep 24 08:12:24 me too Sep 24 08:12:28 i wish :-) Sep 24 08:12:32 then i could have usb Sep 24 08:12:40 huh Sep 24 08:13:14 the mobo I used with my k6 in 1998 (1999?) had usb ports Sep 24 08:13:25 usb requires a pci transport Sep 24 08:13:51 the only pci i have is on the cpu card Sep 24 08:14:10 there arent any e/isa usb host cards Sep 24 08:14:13 johnx: seems like 770 port will be a bit delayed since aladds burnt out his 770 :P Sep 24 08:14:16 well it needs pci or it needs to be on the northbridge or equiv Sep 24 08:14:23 right Sep 24 08:14:24 Stskeeps, O_O Sep 24 08:14:29 Stskeeps, too much rebooting? Sep 24 08:14:38 did it white screen? Sep 24 08:14:40 johnx: no, custom usb power circuit with the wrong pin Sep 24 08:14:52 Stskeeps, damn Sep 24 08:15:01 I was worried about that but he told me he was an expert...so Sep 24 08:15:27 like i said, the only pci is on the daughtercard, but that doesnt help me much. maybe if i could find *any* docs for this machine or its components... Sep 24 08:15:29 hehe, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=226809#post226809 - the port will pick up again when my friend gets his 770 from some ebay guy :P Sep 24 08:15:55 maybe some of those header pins are a usb interface :-) Sep 24 08:17:00 but then it would show up in dmesg. and it doesnt. sigh. Sep 24 08:17:32 Luria, you must have the only one of this computer in existence Sep 24 08:17:46 googling for it just gives me one ebay auction that's already over :) Sep 24 08:18:21 that would be this machine :-) Sep 24 08:18:39 exactly Sep 24 08:18:48 neat looking, huh? Sep 24 08:18:52 though if it's airlink it's probably rebranded from or to something else... Sep 24 08:18:55 heh. Apple now claims rejections of additions to App Store is under the NDA Sep 24 08:19:07 yeah Sep 24 08:19:08 i swear, i love my tablet more and more these days Sep 24 08:19:20 there's nothing too custom inside Sep 24 08:19:58 btw, there isnt so much as a model or serial number on this thing Sep 24 08:20:18 Luria, woo! got to the old ebay auction Sep 24 08:20:31 holy crap man! no wonder people are staring at you O_o Sep 24 08:20:36 haha Sep 24 08:20:36 url? :P Sep 24 08:20:42 http://cgi.ebay.com/Airlink-Computer-AMD-K6-366Mhz-128MB-6GB-HPIB-Port_W0QQitemZ180275214803QQihZ008QQcategoryZ179QQcmdZViewItem Sep 24 08:20:57 the keyboard cable is a phone handset rj-11 Sep 24 08:21:02 yup Sep 24 08:21:04 that's the one Sep 24 08:21:08 ive seen rj-11 used before Sep 24 08:21:15 Luria_: you should be wearing a military suit and pretend it's the nuclear launch machine.. Sep 24 08:21:19 :P Sep 24 08:21:25 but not with an actual handset cord Sep 24 08:21:38 and not since the late 80s Sep 24 08:21:53 Luria, I know where you can get something that looks like a hazmat suit for cheap Sep 24 08:21:57 actually, im using it to find my tardis Sep 24 08:22:34 wow, this is first time i actually saw my tablet say "Battery full" Sep 24 08:22:41 man, i need to make bitchx work in green on black Sep 24 08:22:53 irssi is probably easier Sep 24 08:23:07 Stskeeps, please unplug your charger to save energy. Sep 24 08:23:25 Luria_: i'm going to see if i can make my tablet last 5 days in dublin without a recharge :P Sep 24 08:23:38 hey, its been so long, i nearly apt-getted ircii Sep 24 08:23:57 i did grab gopher for shits and giggles Sep 24 08:24:07 hehe Sep 24 08:24:19 most importantly, two serial ports Sep 24 08:24:46 maybe now i can fix those managed 3com switches i bought last week Sep 24 08:26:12 Luria_, you win. I have *never* seen something with such an anachronistic mix of components Sep 24 08:26:37 yeah, the tft+phone cord does it Sep 24 08:26:52 i should take pics of the inside Sep 24 08:27:03 'cause it is weird Sep 24 08:27:04 I was thinking ISA expansion and a color LCD monitor Sep 24 08:27:18 dunno, lots of people want isa Sep 24 08:27:37 good morning Sep 24 08:27:39 the HP plug for testing or whatever probably explains a lot Sep 24 08:27:45 a friend of mine who does telecom installs looked at it and thought. wow, that's handy. Sep 24 08:27:48 mornin' florian Sep 24 08:27:53 johnx: btw thanks for your kml->gpx guide Sep 24 08:28:01 yeah, actually, thats how i found the auction Sep 24 08:28:18 i was looking for a hpib/gpib card for my oscope Sep 24 08:28:20 Stskeeps, oh, sure. :) Sep 24 08:29:13 fwiw, you can buy c2duo luggables with isa slots Sep 24 08:29:36 i had a cellphone photo request Sep 24 08:29:48 im gonna be flikred or fb'ed Sep 24 08:29:55 joy Sep 24 08:30:48 Luria_, enjoy your 15 minutes of fame :) Sep 24 08:31:10 you really need to work out an internal battery for it too Sep 24 08:33:39 i wrote lines in /etc/fstab but diablo didn't mount anything when boot? Sep 24 08:33:51 yeah, i ducked out of the photo Sep 24 08:34:15 not the first to suggest abattery Sep 24 08:34:16 Luria_, this needs to be photographed Sep 24 08:34:30 but im not lugging around a lead acid battery Sep 24 08:34:38 thux, diablo probably doesn't pay attention to /etc/fstab Sep 24 08:34:49 you may need to add it to a script Sep 24 08:35:07 well, i have some old upses... no, must not think that way Sep 24 08:35:31 maybe himh or nicd Sep 24 08:35:42 s/nicd/nicad/ Sep 24 08:37:15 ill photo it and blog it, ill let you know Sep 24 08:37:29 but yeah, this might be a one off machine Sep 24 08:37:42 I mean *you* need to be in the photo Sep 24 08:37:50 oh god no Sep 24 08:37:54 no fun if it's just a computer sitting in a coffee shop :P Sep 24 08:37:59 true enough Sep 24 08:38:18 only a couple of people left in the cafe, nary a camera in sight Sep 24 08:38:28 sadness Sep 24 08:38:39 get one of them to take a pic with your cell phone? Sep 24 08:38:56 my cellphone is a t68i Sep 24 08:38:58 say your friends on the space shuttle demand proof that mission control is no in a coffee shop :P Sep 24 08:39:02 so no Sep 24 08:39:22 *sigh* Sep 24 08:39:24 missed opportunities Sep 24 08:40:11 well, i do have a ham license... Sep 24 08:40:25 no sts, but iss is possible Sep 24 08:40:37 no soundcard tho Sep 24 08:40:48 ...yet Sep 24 08:40:57 you know, when i saw isa, i kinda had bad flashbacks Sep 24 08:41:11 to change jumper, reboot Sep 24 08:41:16 just thinking about it is bringing me back Sep 24 08:41:19 rinse repeat Sep 24 08:41:31 * johnx shivers at the thought of isa-pnp Sep 24 08:41:37 except Sep 24 08:41:46 this 3c509 is a champ Sep 24 08:41:56 still working 10+ years later Sep 24 08:42:19 and when i told debian installer to look for it, it auto configured just fine Sep 24 08:42:56 thing is, the card didnt quite fit, so i had to take off the backpanel Sep 24 08:43:22 so you can kinda see into the machine and watch the green blinky light Sep 24 08:44:17 remember squeezing as many things as possible on irq 3/4/5/7? Sep 24 08:44:31 yeah, i tried to forget too. Sep 24 08:44:52 remember the things that demanded a certain IRQ? Sep 24 08:44:58 sigh, ctrl+alt+f1/2 is now my alt tab Sep 24 08:45:07 you need screen Sep 24 08:45:30 yeah, good point, cause ratpoison wont do anything for me right now Sep 24 08:45:46 hmm...airlink got swallowed by sierra in 2007 Sep 24 08:46:00 not much on wikipedia about them prior to that Sep 24 08:46:05 well, i guess my email to them will be pointless Sep 24 08:46:21 or rather my plan to email them Sep 24 08:46:23 maybe some stuff on newsgroups? Sep 24 08:46:52 Stskeeps, good idea Sep 24 08:47:44 was thinking about that today Sep 24 08:47:50 Luria_, so it probably wasn't originally sold with the hpib card in itI'm thinking Sep 24 08:48:04 can anyone recommend a good group? Sep 24 08:48:12 johnx im certain not Sep 24 08:48:16 Luria_: i'd just search on google groups Sep 24 08:48:22 it has the dejanews archive so Sep 24 08:48:59 because the gpib card doesnt fit without removing the bracket around the port and screwing it back over the port once installed Sep 24 08:49:08 Stskeeps - tried that already Sep 24 08:50:30 i am impressed by how well google works in elinks Sep 24 08:51:27 even gmail works in html mode Sep 24 08:52:10 the saddest part is that your luggable is only 3lbs heavier than my notebook Sep 24 08:52:43 thats a 1.2eeepc difference Sep 24 08:53:12 mine doesn't have a handle though Sep 24 08:53:17 squirelmail works too. Sep 24 08:53:22 or a phone cord Sep 24 08:53:43 or a 1.44mb floppy (maybe) Sep 24 08:54:35 366mhz.. that's about as powerful as the tablets :P Sep 24 08:55:07 less so, i dont have dsps Sep 24 08:55:08 :-) Sep 24 08:55:10 true Sep 24 08:55:14 johnx: well, change the notebook :) Sep 24 08:55:37 RST38h, I did. I bought an N800 and use that instead Sep 24 08:55:40 i could maybe throw a beagleboard in this thing Sep 24 08:55:52 were it not for the tft Sep 24 08:56:07 Luria, you could throw like 10 beagleboards in that thing Sep 24 08:56:31 thats a lot of beagles Sep 24 08:56:42 and $1500 :-) Sep 24 08:57:51 johnx: you know, there are real, full featured notebooks under 2.5lb ;) Sep 24 08:58:09 And I do not mean eeek pc Sep 24 08:58:45 lifebooks are nice Sep 24 08:59:48 RST38h, I'm eyeing the lenovo x200 but I don't have the cash for it right now Sep 24 09:00:08 johnx: Toshiba R500 starts at $1500 Sep 24 09:00:36 RST38h, x200 starts at $1100 Sep 24 09:00:49 no need to buy overpriced, shoddily designed laptop made under Chinese supervision Sep 24 09:01:12 johnx: scratch overpriced =) Sep 24 09:01:19 where do you think a toshiba is made? Sep 24 09:01:21 scratch shoddily designed. Sep 24 09:01:32 hey, the x200 is a lot nicer than anything toshiba makes :) Sep 24 09:01:38 unless they've hugely changed since the X61s Sep 24 09:02:11 fred, they made it run cooler for longer and the x200 is widescreen with a full sized keyboard, but otherwise very similar :) Sep 24 09:02:49 the X61s has full-sized keys, but not full-size keyboard :(as for runs longer? Sep 24 09:03:07 with the extended life battery, my X61s runs under linux for 18 hours while using 3G :S Sep 24 09:03:11 don't need longer :p Sep 24 09:03:45 though that is with the non-default low voltage processor option Sep 24 09:03:54 fred: do not scratch shoddily design. I am writing this from a corporate T61 and it sucks Sep 24 09:04:09 aquatix: it looks like it has been designed in ussr Sep 24 09:04:14 and produce din china Sep 24 09:04:39 RST38h, that sounds accurate. :) Sep 24 09:04:40 so you're saying because the T-series sucks, the X must as well :p Sep 24 09:04:53 x series are great Sep 24 09:05:02 i wish i had an x300 Sep 24 09:05:19 RST38h: well, things designed by the ussr at least tended to function for quite a while Sep 24 09:05:23 ...so i could have xorg (j/k) Sep 24 09:05:27 fred, the x200s isn't out yet. (or is it out by now? I don't remember) Sep 24 09:05:30 besides, i like the thinkpad design Sep 24 09:05:33 it's timeless Sep 24 09:06:02 aquatix, not the same without the ibm badge, tho Sep 24 09:06:05 say I got a Toshiba P300-16T and didn't like it, would it then be fair for me to say that the R500 must be shoddily designed? Sep 24 09:06:24 Luria_: true Sep 24 09:06:42 admittedly, the tecra 520CDT I had lasted for over 6 years, but thinkpads tend to be similar Sep 24 09:06:50 aquatix: if you used them rarely enough Sep 24 09:07:06 fred: all ibms/lenovos are designed similarly Sep 24 09:07:37 lenovo thinkpads, yes. not their badideapad line. Sep 24 09:07:38 hey, I have a toshiba P4 laptop that weighs 9lbs. I guess that means all toshibas are heavy and have crappy hinges and tend to overheat Sep 24 09:07:39 fred: Toshiba actually changes design over time and with different series Sep 24 09:07:47 except with different standards for portability and ruggidity... so by shoddy design do you mean purely visual? Sep 24 09:07:57 johnx: exactly! Sep 24 09:07:57 fred: Ibm/Lenovo is still the same crappy designed as it was 10 years ago Sep 24 09:07:58 ;) Sep 24 09:08:33 RST38h, you're tired of the USSR design. I'm tired of the hip Japanese manufacturers trying to be as cool as Apple. Sep 24 09:08:44 ah, so you just mean looks Sep 24 09:08:46 apple is cool? Sep 24 09:08:58 Luria_, here? yes. Sep 24 09:09:27 no one asks to take cellphone pics of apples :-p Sep 24 09:09:31 * fred sticks with his lightweight laptop with a powerful processor, lots of ram, built in 3G modem, small form factor, and stupidly good battery life, with visual design based on a bento box, which he happens to like Sep 24 09:09:36 fred: By shoddy design I mean boxy, heavy, lots of weird orifices, bleak display, buttons that do not do anything useful, small arrow buttons, bad use of surface space Sep 24 09:09:42 fred: Should I continue? Sep 24 09:09:49 * Luria_ likes panasonics Sep 24 09:10:14 johnx: Toshiba Portege has been around long before Apple Air Sep 24 09:10:31 boxy, heavy: T-series - weird orifices - whut?, bleak display: X series have different displays - buttons - huh? small arros buttons: mine are full size, bad use of surface space:clarify; I don't see that applying to the X series Sep 24 09:10:33 johnx: So, it is NOT trying to compete with Apple. Apple is trying to compete with it Sep 24 09:10:38 fred: what box do you have? Sep 24 09:10:45 X61s with some upgrades. Sep 24 09:10:49 ah :) Sep 24 09:10:55 * aquatix loves the x61 and x61s Sep 24 09:10:56 fred: Weird orifices - take T4x and look at a hole between CD drive and the casing Sep 24 09:11:19 I thought you said your complaints were consistent between series? Sep 24 09:11:26 also having a wacom tablet in a laptop is just... neat. Sep 24 09:11:35 RST38h, I didn't say the air. I said the apple "coolness." and yes, in the eyes of consumers it has to compete with Apple's image. I'm tired of the pretty designs at the cost of usability and durability Sep 24 09:11:40 fred: I will find holes in your X61 as well Sep 24 09:11:59 RST38h, yes, that's where you plug things in Sep 24 09:12:01 if you want me to comment on them, make sure you look at the X61s, not the X61 Sep 24 09:12:03 johnx: One look at Toshiba's website shows that you are wrong Sep 24 09:12:18 (slightly smaller, lighter, and lower power than the X61) Sep 24 09:12:22 johnx, come on, sony has been making crappy vaios since apple was making black laptops Sep 24 09:12:23 johnx: What things would I plug into a triangular hole 3-5mm at its widest? Sep 24 09:12:46 (and not glossy black) Sep 24 09:12:49 johnx: Is it what IBM engineers think a penis looks like? Sep 24 09:12:50 RST38h, let's not talk about your personal life here... Sep 24 09:13:17 how did we get there from here? Sep 24 09:13:25 anyways, nice arguing with everyone. need to go make dinner Sep 24 09:13:44 Luria: johnx suggested that the hole found in T41x above CD drive is for plugging something Sep 24 09:13:56 a photo would be helpful Sep 24 09:14:02 Luria: It is just a hole though, mistake in the design Sep 24 09:14:04 a moment Sep 24 09:14:38 maybe its for chinese penises? think globally. Sep 24 09:15:00 sheesh. talk about cultural insensitivty. Sep 24 09:15:11 insensitivity, even Sep 24 09:15:12 Here, look: http://www.laptopcloseout.com/usa/en-us/untitled1.jpg Sep 24 09:15:21 Luria: has been there before lenovo afaik Sep 24 09:15:29 umm. i cant look at pictures right now. Sep 24 09:15:39 my computer doesnt do that Sep 24 09:15:44 hehe Sep 24 09:15:54 at least you have got ip connection Sep 24 09:15:59 (scroll back for the ebay link) Sep 24 09:16:11 yeah, over my 3c509! Sep 24 09:16:41 when i get home, ill check the link from my xchat log Sep 24 09:17:01 elinks needs a jpg->ansi art plug in Sep 24 09:17:17 though i bet someone has done that Sep 24 09:17:35 heh Sep 24 09:17:37 aaview Sep 24 09:18:03 see, there ya go Sep 24 09:18:17 i guess thats kinda rule 34 at work Sep 24 09:21:31 i guess that ended that Sep 24 09:23:44 maybe i'll go gopher or something Sep 24 09:28:27 Luria_: why are you using elinks btw? why not links or some other more recent browser? Sep 24 09:29:52 habit i guess Sep 24 09:30:01 good point tho Sep 24 09:30:46 links2 maybe Sep 24 09:30:54 i'm not sure which one is the nicest Sep 24 09:31:17 yeah, actually i was just away aptgetting both links and links2 Sep 24 09:31:36 well, aptituding Sep 24 09:31:36 :) Sep 24 09:32:18 ghehehe, someone suggests firefox in aalib Sep 24 09:32:37 elinks is nicer than links Sep 24 09:32:41 on to links2 Sep 24 09:33:29 aquatix - lol Sep 24 09:35:09 flash player with aalib would be nice :) Sep 24 09:35:32 :) Sep 24 09:35:40 oh god Sep 24 09:35:54 losing flash is one of the few benefits here Sep 24 09:35:55 for playing flv a movie player with ascii art plugin makes more sense Sep 24 09:36:03 Luria_: :) Sep 24 09:36:20 there's a flashblock plugin etc for firefox, for example ;) Sep 24 09:36:35 and one for my n810, thanx gawd. Sep 24 09:36:41 * aquatix loves to combine that extension with adblock Sep 24 09:36:50 oh, i just disable flash on my n810 Sep 24 09:36:55 simple config option Sep 24 09:37:09 i need an adblocker though Sep 24 09:37:14 meh, i like adblock+flashblock on my n810 Sep 24 09:37:15 anyone a suggestion? Sep 24 09:37:21 ah :) Sep 24 09:37:29 well, abp Sep 24 09:37:34 there ya go Sep 24 09:37:55 sometimes, you do need flash... rarely, but yeah Sep 24 09:38:23 if i do, i enable the plugin Sep 24 09:38:32 two clicks Sep 24 09:39:27 ah, 3 clicks, but even so Sep 24 09:39:31 * aquatix installs abp Sep 24 09:39:40 http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/5/ is the latest? Sep 24 09:40:44 dunno, got mine from a repo Sep 24 09:41:11 but that sounds right Sep 24 09:41:17 ah, it has a nice install link Sep 24 09:41:21 sounds like it's the one Sep 24 09:41:24 * aquatix installs Sep 24 09:41:40 * Luria_ twiddles his thumbs Sep 24 09:42:06 maybe ill anon ftp to wustl for old time's sake Sep 24 09:42:39 :) Sep 24 09:42:57 oh wow. it's gone. Sep 24 09:49:10 hi, when I download the official nokia OS image (eg using the windows flasher) is this diablo ? Sep 24 09:49:51 benno2: Yes. Sep 24 09:49:56 if I want to develop for that platform is it ok Sep 24 09:50:00 hopefully :-) Sep 24 09:50:03 X-Fade: thanks Sep 24 09:50:27 no, diablo is free as in china Sep 24 09:50:30 (j/k) Sep 24 09:51:08 so basically diablo is still OS2008 ? Sep 24 09:51:16 yes Sep 24 09:51:19 OS2008.1 Sep 24 09:51:30 Whatever this notation may mean Sep 24 09:51:31 benno2: yes, it is Maemo4.1. Just a point release. Sep 24 09:52:05 Next big change will be Maemo 5, codenamed Fremantle. Sep 24 09:52:09 X-Fade: thanks. but can I use a chinook sdk to cook binaries (user space) and run them on diablo ? Sep 24 09:52:24 benno2: For the most part yes. Sep 24 09:52:33 But you should just dist-upgrade your sdk. Sep 24 09:53:02 X-Fade: ah thanks, so just apt-get dist-upgrade will update everything to the latest version ? Sep 24 09:53:35 That is the idea ;) Sep 24 09:54:08 X-Fade: thanks. so basically if i dist-upgrade my chinook sdk and then flash the latest nokia image on my n800 it should work fine ? Sep 24 09:54:46 benno2: chinook and diablo are basically compatible. Sep 24 09:54:52 why would you first dist-upgrade chinook? Sep 24 09:55:01 just make a backup before flashing Sep 24 09:55:15 aquatix: sdk ;) Sep 24 09:55:19 oh wait, sorry Sep 24 09:55:28 just read it indeed Sep 24 09:56:51 ok, 6am Sep 24 09:56:58 time to shutdown now Sep 24 10:00:36 g'night/morning Sep 24 10:04:26 eh, wince? Sep 24 10:06:14 I would guess that is just one of BitchX's random quit messages Sep 24 10:10:13 hope so ;) Sep 24 10:11:38 not much updates in the repository resently Sep 24 10:11:56 canola development seems to be dead Sep 24 10:12:14 and modest's as well Sep 24 10:12:38 wiza: Because you look in the wrong repos :) Sep 24 10:13:05 so what repos I should have Sep 24 10:13:21 Canola is in extras. All updates happen there. Sep 24 10:13:37 I only have 3 nokia ones and maemo Extras Sep 24 10:13:49 distribution line I have "chinook diablo" Sep 24 10:13:50 * aquatix just got a lot of libedl* updates Sep 24 10:13:54 w/o quotes Sep 24 10:13:58 now canola2 is dead :) Sep 24 10:15:01 Canola is announced to be opensourced soon. Sep 24 10:15:11 anyone knows when canola2 gets a new release? Sep 24 10:15:11 ah Sep 24 10:15:14 cool Sep 24 10:15:29 aquatix: You should have been at the summit ;) Sep 24 10:15:34 indeed Sep 24 10:15:39 too bad i didn't have the time Sep 24 10:15:48 next time i'll try to be there Sep 24 10:16:26 MARDI COME HERE Sep 24 10:16:32 NOW Sep 24 10:17:12 lol Sep 24 10:50:26 wince, wtf? Sep 24 10:50:36 derf: finished the init_data transfer stuff, will have a go at compilation at lunch time Sep 24 10:50:36 bitchx is wierd Sep 24 10:57:10 lardman: Hooray. Sep 24 10:57:39 hey Luria :) Sep 24 10:58:10 X-Fade, did we actually get server upgrades? Sep 24 10:58:15 derf: don't get your hopes up yet, that's the easy bit ;) Sep 24 10:59:11 GeneralAntilles: Yes, but dns needs to be switched still. Sep 24 10:59:26 Aaah Sep 24 10:59:34 GeneralAntilles: So, no.. The slowness you see now is not the new cluster ;) Sep 24 10:59:34 hey Sep 24 10:59:43 just made it home, now i sleep Sep 24 10:59:44 Google should give a warning that a page in its results has a Java applet on it Sep 24 11:00:49 Luria: sleep well Sep 24 11:01:05 lardman: hm, now there's an idea Sep 24 11:01:09 thanks, i started torrents to make sure i enjoy waking up Sep 24 11:01:34 :) Sep 24 11:08:58 Does Till Harbaum come on irc at all? Sep 24 11:09:21 * lardman needs a name<->nick lookup table Sep 24 11:11:23 /who Sep 24 11:43:13 GeneralAntilles ping Sep 24 11:44:12 lardman, pong Sep 24 11:44:37 I was just reading the tail end of the First Community Issue thread Sep 24 11:44:48 Having completely missed it in real time Sep 24 11:44:58 lol Sep 24 11:45:08 I was away, I had another conference that week too Sep 24 11:57:47 WiFi connection on n810 just broke. Here goes Modest... Sep 24 12:09:06 GAN: Any updates on that maemo.org redesign? Sep 24 12:10:53 RST38h, not really, scheduling an IRC meeting on the content cleanup sometime next week. Sep 24 12:11:16 Apparently there wasn't enough time for real progress at the summit. Sep 24 12:11:36 Though Quim did ask the INdT guys to work on a design. Sep 24 12:13:00 That reminds me of something I left off my -community post: in the council presentation we agreed it was the council's role to help push and find developers - and, more importnalty, freedback on things like dneary's maemo.org design email Sep 24 12:13:07 If no-one else says anything, we should. Sep 24 12:13:25 cool Sep 24 12:13:29 RST38h, the general feeling is that we should focus on getting the content into shape before we worry about layout and design. Sep 24 12:13:37 push and find developers for what? Sep 24 12:13:52 "things like dneary's maemo.org design email" Sep 24 12:13:53 GAN800: I'm going to insist that INdT designs are one possibility, rather than the be-all and end-all Sep 24 12:13:54 GAN: It may be wrong Sep 24 12:14:18 GAN: 'cause a lot of content that is currently there has to be culled and put away rather than added to Sep 24 12:14:23 GAN800: So I'm certainly open to unpaid community members coming in & saying "I can do better" Sep 24 12:14:26 dneary, you saw Bundyo's design, right? Sep 24 12:14:58 * RST38h is scared to think what Bundyo's design will do to MicroB Sep 24 12:15:00 RST38h, that's why it's a content 'cleanup'. ;) Sep 24 12:15:39 RST38h, it's not that bad, but I'm definitely not letting it through with all that superfluous js. Sep 24 12:15:46 The look seems less important than coming up with the right use cases (although dneary's probably got a fairly close set, IMHO). And, until the use cases & information architecture are decided on, designs are - at best - pretty screenshots of what might happen. A true design has to be based on the use cases & information layout, not the other way round Sep 24 12:21:57 Jaffa: Have you seen design I have done? Sep 24 12:22:29 RST38h: no I've only seen bundyo's at the summit at the maemo booth at osim, I think Sep 24 12:22:57 Jaffa: http://fms.komkon.org/MaemoMain.html Sep 24 12:23:09 Jaffa: The page contains layout elements for all the pages Sep 24 12:23:42 Jaffa: No JavaScript. Very light CSS. Perfectly resizable. Sep 24 12:24:02 RST38h, css instead of tables now? Sep 24 12:26:19 johnx: No. Tables work. Sep 24 12:26:33 CSS only works sometimes, especially on mobile devices Sep 24 12:28:18 but CSS can be made to scale better to smaller resolutions... Sep 24 12:28:32 Tables are entirely unacceptable for layout. Sep 24 12:28:35 css works rather nicely on iphone ;) Sep 24 12:28:57 tables are great when you have data which needs to be displayed Sep 24 12:29:08 maybe a calendar Sep 24 12:29:13 etc Sep 24 12:30:06 depends what you are targeting as always :) Sep 24 12:30:34 Well, you want to use CSS - replace tables with CSS Sep 24 12:31:01 It will work nicely on iPhone but will most likely break on Opera and who knows how it is gonna work on S60 browser... Sep 24 12:31:22 css seems to work fine on opera mobile Sep 24 12:31:32 hi johnx Sep 24 12:31:49 hi Italodance Sep 24 12:31:52 i found wizback on my n800,what is it? Sep 24 12:32:04 On E70 (S60e3, WebKit-based browser) I am getting constant problems with heavy css sites Sep 24 12:32:06 just found it by xterm Sep 24 12:32:26 On N810, it seems to work unless you select fit to width Sep 24 12:32:46 Don't select fit width to view. Sep 24 12:32:54 That's MicroB's "broken-mode" Sep 24 12:33:19 And is apparently going Sep 24 12:34:06 the zoom to fit contents mode on the iphone looks like a much better idea Sep 24 12:34:30 johnx do u know what is it>? Sep 24 12:34:40 Italodance, I really don't know Sep 24 12:34:45 Italodance, google it Sep 24 12:35:09 johnx the screen will go to a loading... Sep 24 12:35:15 try it by xterm Sep 24 12:35:24 type wizback Sep 24 12:35:38 Italodance, I can't right now. Sep 24 12:35:57 there is no info on google Sep 24 12:36:05 :( Sep 24 12:36:12 Nokia-N800-23-14:~# apt-cache search wizback Sep 24 12:36:12 wizback - Background window for startup wizards controlled from init scripts via dbus-send Sep 24 12:38:02 tnx mate Sep 24 12:44:01 lo etrunko Sep 24 12:44:13 Jaffa: hey dude Sep 24 12:44:59 Jaffa: what do you think about start writing on the council wiki page? Sep 24 12:45:00 :) Sep 24 12:45:11 Hey, leave fit-width-to-view alone please =) Sep 24 12:45:27 However broken, it is still useful on many sites. And it handles tables just fine Sep 24 12:45:32 Jaffa: I have some ideas that i'll drop in the discussion page. Sep 24 12:45:59 etrunko: cool; I'm sure GAN800'll be monitoring that page already (must tick the 'watch' option) Sep 24 12:46:28 https://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Recentchanges ;) Sep 24 12:46:37 Don't know if you can actually edit yet, though. Sep 24 12:46:42 It wasn't working for me earlier. Sep 24 12:49:42 umm.. hello Sep 24 12:50:04 hi biiter Sep 24 12:52:00 im searching for small fully programmable device with wifi and n8x0 seems quite satisfactory.. but i'm unnable to find info about custom flashers Sep 24 12:52:21 custom flashers? Sep 24 12:52:53 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php Sep 24 12:53:33 Um? Sep 24 12:53:45 (Jyrchi) TuxOtaku: Around here Jaffa is a drink Sep 24 12:53:46 (Jyrchi) I think Jaffa usually refers to orange Sep 24 12:54:17 ~botsnack Sep 24 12:54:18 :), GeneralAntilles Sep 24 12:54:20 well, i would like to run something different than maemo / os200X Sep 24 12:54:21 ~flashing Sep 24 12:54:22 aaaah Sep 24 12:54:22 flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 24 12:54:25 he's alive again :) Sep 24 12:54:26 ~flasher Sep 24 12:54:26 it has been said that flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher Sep 24 12:54:30 infobot, feel any better? Sep 24 12:54:31 o/~ I FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL any better Sep 24 12:54:36 :D Sep 24 12:54:44 infobot, good bot Sep 24 12:54:44 crashanddie: aw, gee Sep 24 12:54:47 biiter, sure you can do that. What are you planning to run? Sep 24 12:55:01 biiter, that has nothing to do with the flasher. Sep 24 12:55:25 if you're planning to run something else it's probably best to run it from an sd card Sep 24 12:55:25 crashanddie: it is indeed an orange reference Sep 24 12:55:37 it's easier to debug and mess with that way Sep 24 12:55:39 custom linux build Sep 24 12:55:42 crashanddie: http://www.jaffasoft.co.uk/img/jaffasoft.gif Sep 24 12:56:11 are there any docs about it? Sep 24 12:56:20 biiter, botting from sd? Sep 24 12:56:38 s/bo/boo/ Sep 24 12:56:39 johnx meant: biiter, bootting from sd? Sep 24 12:56:54 Jaffa, that's an old website ;) Sep 24 12:57:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_(disambiguation) Sep 24 12:57:16 biiter, lots of good stuff on wiki.maemo.org Sep 24 12:57:59 i don't have the device, yet.. Sep 24 12:58:26 biiter, and there's already a debian installer and a distro based on openembedded called mamona Sep 24 12:58:35 if you want to hack, this is probably the device for you :) Sep 24 12:58:44 i want to be shure that it's hackable as I hope Sep 24 12:58:55 biiter, do you want mobility? Sep 24 12:59:02 crashanddie: indeed. Sep 24 12:59:09 more hackable than most other devices Sep 24 12:59:20 good good :) Sep 24 12:59:23 earlier this month I would have said no, but Nokia just open sourced a lot of important stuff, like the wifi drivers Sep 24 13:00:30 does wifi support monitor mode? Sep 24 13:00:53 not well with the closed source driver Sep 24 13:01:06 it might be lots better or at least doable with the open source one Sep 24 13:02:14 Jaffa, etrunko, lardman|lunch, do you guys want to put together a post-Summit blog entry? Sep 24 13:03:42 Indeed Sep 24 13:03:43 GeneralAntilles: absolutely... I was talking to Tim about that the other day Sep 24 13:03:51 Should link to an online version of ours slides and other stuff Sep 24 13:04:03 Jaffa: uploading! Sep 24 13:04:05 etrunko: can you put the slides we used online somewhere, or send them to me? Sep 24 13:04:05 :) Sep 24 13:04:09 etrunko: perfick :) Sep 24 13:04:20 Jaffa: i can host on my googlepages space Sep 24 13:05:26 * Jaffa sees slideshare being used lots at the moment, by qgil etc - not sure the benefits of it tho Sep 24 13:06:06 hmm..hmm :/ ... and difference between n800 and n810? .. i didn't found any good reviews (non commercial) on n810.. specially about hardware design.. keyboard etc.. which one is more suitable? Sep 24 13:06:21 more suitable for what? Sep 24 13:06:34 Well, you can only get the N800 used now. Sep 24 13:06:37 So no warranty. Sep 24 13:06:41 That's a disadvantage. Sep 24 13:06:55 N800 == cheaper, way more storage Sep 24 13:07:01 biiter, if you're hacking your own linux distro up from scratch you might find a keyboard really useful Sep 24 13:07:01 crashanddie: small powerfull mobility and small cost.. no music or webcam.. don't need that Sep 24 13:07:07 bitter: N810 has fewer storage options, but built-in 2GB card; built-in GPS; built-in keyboard; transflective screen. N800 has more storage options; cheaper; larger (front-facing speakers) Sep 24 13:07:11 N810 == more expensive, less storage, but hardware keyboard, gps, and transflective display. Sep 24 13:08:03 If you're going to do a lot of hacking, you'll probably use SSH/usb keyboard anyway so... Sep 24 13:08:47 crashanddie, there are lots of times when I was stuck since I didn't have usb keyboard or ssh enabled Sep 24 13:08:51 i don't like that keyboard mechanic part :[ .. more damagable Sep 24 13:09:15 pfrrr... hard to decide Sep 24 13:09:18 biiter, a couple people have had problems with it. That is a downside I guess Sep 24 13:10:31 biiter, from my experience putting debian on my n800, I'd really like to have a built-in keyboard Sep 24 13:12:54 more and more dilemmatic :) Sep 24 13:14:00 biiter, look at the number of good, usable onscreen keyboards that are available outside of Nokia's linux distro Sep 24 13:15:00 GeneralAntilles, Jaffa, lardman|lunch: mail sent Sep 24 13:15:12 here's a hint: it's not a great situation Sep 24 13:15:21 http://eblima.googlepages.com/Maemo_Summit_Community_Council_Prese.pdf Sep 24 13:17:19 "His Lordship and Imperial Highness Emperor Field Marshal Antilles" Sep 24 13:17:22 * GeneralAntilles shakes his head. Sep 24 13:17:55 :D Sep 24 13:18:10 lol, he saw the slides ;) Sep 24 13:18:18 well.. thats really handy and usable.. and i don't need more than 8GB of storage.. and transreflective display is cool.. ok n810 is the choice, thx a lot :) Sep 24 13:18:21 GeneralAntilles: we spent quite a few time thinking of the best way to say it Sep 24 13:18:22 :) Sep 24 13:18:25 * GeneralAntilles waits patiently for baloo to upload the video so he can begin the eviscerations. Sep 24 13:18:33 GeneralAntilles: nonono Sep 24 13:18:38 Ha Sep 24 13:18:55 etrunko gets mostly eviscerated - first 10 mins timsamoff, lardman and I were doing blind... etrunko was just blind drunk ;-) Sep 24 13:19:20 biiter, so will this be based on an existing distro or will this be "from scratch" Sep 24 13:19:29 Jaffa: :@ Sep 24 13:19:39 johnx from scratch Sep 24 13:20:06 biiter, quite ambitious :) Sep 24 13:22:06 johnx: i like to control thigs :) Sep 24 13:22:50 *n Sep 24 13:22:53 biiter, fair enough. You have quite a road ahead of you. So are you going to cross compile or compile everything native on the device? Sep 24 13:26:43 if crosscompile will not make any faults, i don't see any advantage of compilling it on device Sep 24 13:27:54 with lots of applications, it can be difficult to get them to build in a cross-compiling environment Sep 24 13:28:03 especially big apps with complicated build systems Sep 24 13:28:09 Less toolchain induced stupidity. Sep 24 13:28:37 you might want to look at openembedded build system or maybe scratchbox Sep 24 13:29:59 very nice :) thx Sep 24 13:31:17 http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/09/nokia-5800-xpressmedia-tube-press-pic.jpg Sep 24 13:32:40 sbox2 better than scratchbox - but still a little braindead (mostly in the documentation and ease-of-use categories) Sep 24 13:32:53 those categories can be fixed by users Sep 24 13:33:12 Jaffa, does apt-get work under it properly? Sep 24 13:33:28 * timeless has apt-get working on solaris... Sep 24 13:33:59 * johnx used to use it on a Mac...but never had success with it under sb2 Sep 24 13:34:49 ok, thx for help.. i'm going to nokia shop to check it out :) Sep 24 13:35:13 biiter, good plan. make sure you can live with the keyboard. Sep 24 13:40:42 RST38h: they have an awesome song in the player on that shot btw Sep 24 13:45:13 Stskeeps, could you make usbnet-emergency-telnetd recommended instead of required? Sep 24 13:47:10 hmm, /me could really do with on-device routing for tomorrow Sep 24 13:49:54 lardman: works for in city bicycle road :) Sep 24 13:50:22 yeah, might give it a go :) Sep 24 13:50:39 does it handle one-way streets though? Sep 24 13:50:56 as long as openstreetmap report them, yes. Sep 24 13:51:03 but i realised, some of them are not reported. Sep 24 13:51:11 got lost during my firts test Sep 24 13:51:21 http://sayhoo.garage.maemo.org/ Sep 24 13:51:28 ah, you're Pierre? Sep 24 13:51:35 that's me. hello :) Sep 24 13:51:47 cool, hard to link names to nicks :) Sep 24 13:51:50 I'm Simon Sep 24 13:51:59 same here. Sep 24 13:53:06 did you had the opportunity to try out the navit thingy ? Sep 24 13:53:09 it really looks cool Sep 24 13:53:44 I've tried it before but it didn't work (as in operate), not sure what the issue was Sep 24 13:54:29 certainly worth doing some hacking on, but I still think a maemo-mapper backend will be similar (as in code/logic/etc) so hopefully they should complement one another Sep 24 13:56:34 Seems like some sort of plugin system for Maemo Mapper would be nice Sep 24 13:57:07 So you don't have to work around its raster engine and unnecessarily increase resource usage. Sep 24 13:57:27 Rendering plugin you mean? Sep 24 13:57:39 Right Sep 24 13:57:56 It will be interesting to see how much cpu the rendering requires Sep 24 13:58:00 It's a little bit more pervasive than that. Sep 24 13:58:01 Maemo Mapper could probably use the rewriting anyway. ;) Sep 24 13:58:22 derf: how so? Sep 24 13:58:23 Tell gnuite to get on it. Sep 24 13:58:37 lol, his presentation was about not having to re-write it! :) Sep 24 13:58:42 In the sense that it's not just rendering but tile loading, caching, coordinate systems, transforms... Sep 24 13:58:48 Ha Sep 24 13:59:19 derf: well that's under the rendering-engine in my book anyway, even if it's not exactly rendering Sep 24 13:59:42 things like the ability to use 3D data would be cool Sep 24 13:59:47 lardman: Sure, but that's also almost the entire code base. Sep 24 14:00:02 well there's the ui stuff too ;) Sep 24 14:00:10 That part is not actually that big. Sep 24 14:00:13 but yes I agree, it would be a complete re-write Sep 24 14:00:20 heh @ mariuses mail Sep 24 14:00:48 o/ hi folks btw Sep 24 14:00:52 shi Sep 24 14:00:54 Having separate programs for different map types is a bad plan. Sep 24 14:00:55 * lcuk runs away again Sep 24 14:01:14 GAN800: I agree, but having one program with both types is still a lot of work. Sep 24 14:01:26 Users shouldn't need to care what type of maps they're using. Sep 24 14:01:34 But hey, gnuite should have his 20% time, so he's got no excuses. Sep 24 14:01:40 derf, true enough Sep 24 14:01:58 We need more tasers if not. Sep 24 14:02:17 the other problem is that these vector mapping systems are seemingly rather tightly bound to their vector formats, I don't know how easy to would be to add support for others (e.g. shuttle radar topography data) Sep 24 14:04:01 lcuk: indeed. Always good to see Nokians communicating in the open, though. Sep 24 14:04:29 hmm.. my chinook-mediaplayer broke :/ it just tells me "Can't proceed, try again later" when i try to access the library :( Sep 24 14:04:46 20% time.. He is working at google ? Sep 24 14:04:53 yes Sep 24 14:04:58 He is now, anyway. Sep 24 14:05:22 I wonder if Nokia would tell us the Navteq file format...? :) Sep 24 14:05:38 I'm pretty sure Navteq might have something to say about that. Sep 24 14:05:48 Nokia own them don't they? Sep 24 14:05:53 No idea. Sep 24 14:05:56 lardman: If the rendering engine there *is* Java - and the stack of .class files in .zips suggests it is - jad may do a good job of telling us the format ;-) Sep 24 14:05:59 yeah they do Sep 24 14:06:02 Indeed Sep 24 14:06:20 Jaffa: Assuming the classes haven't been obfuscated. Sep 24 14:06:25 Jaffa: oh right, you mean the maps app is java? Sep 24 14:06:29 That's pretty common practice these days. Sep 24 14:06:44 * Jaffa has been looking for a cheap Navicore 2007 licence, though - since someone on ITT said they got one for $30 Sep 24 14:07:02 $30 by changing their MAC...? Sep 24 14:07:32 http://pyqt.garage.maemo.org/ Sep 24 14:07:51 oh, wow.. the whole OS seems b0rked.. Sep 24 14:08:17 Wrong logo Sep 24 14:08:29 Somebody go stab them in the eye. Sep 24 14:08:45 sill , jad rulez Sep 24 14:08:46 riot, Diablo time. Sep 24 14:08:51 GAN800: i'd say so :/ Sep 24 14:09:07 how do i backup my wlan settings? I don't wanna loose the dozens of passwords : Sep 24 14:09:23 lardman: there's /usr/libexec/navicore-navigator which is about 2MB and handles the DRM and general app startup and, AFAICT, the main GUI. But there's also a load of stuff in some other dir containing class files. Not as much interesting stuff in terms of names as I'd hoped, though Sep 24 14:09:47 lardman: changing the MAC's apparently less useful since they now check the GPS time against the licence time. Sep 24 14:09:58 ah ok Sep 24 14:10:03 If there's any licence discrepancy at start-up, the maps are corrupted and have to be redownloaded, too. Sep 24 14:10:24 This is why I don't use closed-source software. Sep 24 14:10:40 well, i can still use mplayer to play music :D Sep 24 14:10:45 mplayer, ftw. Sep 24 14:10:52 derf: I wasn't aware of a method of really obfuscating a class file really well. The zips aren't encoded either, and the class files seem to be valid (but I haven't looked into it in too much detail) Sep 24 14:11:35 hmm, apparently Northampton lacks OSM data Sep 24 14:11:43 good thing I wasn't planning on navigating there then Sep 24 14:11:49 Jaffa: My favorite is replacing all the symbol names with various combinations of l1l1lll11. Sep 24 14:12:03 lardman: Do some maping while you are there ;) Sep 24 14:12:19 X-Fade: hmm, you been there before, no wonder there are no maps ;) Sep 24 14:12:39 probably an osm mapping black hole, people go in and never come out Sep 24 14:12:44 I can honestly say that I have not been there yet ;) Sep 24 14:13:15 derf: so leave debug symbols in, but corrupt them. Nasty. I think jad has an option to create new symbols anyway - and it does symbol generation for classes without debug info Sep 24 14:13:51 Jaffa: Not debug symbols, but the actual class API. Sep 24 14:14:12 Breaks any complicated reflection, but you probably shouldn't be using that anyway. Sep 24 14:19:06 derf: heh Sep 24 14:19:34 But most websites and such just use something like http://proguard.sourceforge.net/ Sep 24 14:20:12 Anybody happen to meet mutiny32 in person at the Summit? Sep 24 14:20:22 NAFAIK Sep 24 14:20:48 need a picture Sep 24 14:20:49 Too bad Sep 24 14:21:15 I was interested to know if he was as hilariously idiotic in person as he is online. Sep 24 14:21:19 perhaps everyone with a maemo t-shirt with their name on the front and back in large letters :) Sep 24 14:21:22 Kyle Jones Sep 24 14:24:45 BTW was darius at the summit? =) Sep 24 14:24:56 Or is he undergoing treatment at the moment? Sep 24 14:25:15 hey all, anyone know of an RSS reader app for OS2008 that'll download full articles for offline reading? Sep 24 14:26:05 lophyte: I guess that really depends on your feeds. If they don't offer full content, you are out of luck? Sep 24 14:26:19 lophyte: patch the Nokia one Sep 24 14:26:39 X-Fade: most RSS feeds I've seen at least have a link to the full article... that's kinda what I was getting at Sep 24 14:26:46 lophyte: Google Reader in iPhone mode Sep 24 14:26:49 Works perfectly Sep 24 14:26:55 lophyte: But that would be scraping ;) Sep 24 14:27:14 RST38h: cool I'll give it a shot Sep 24 14:27:15 wait, it won't download full articles either Sep 24 14:27:23 ah Sep 24 14:28:04 it'd just be nice to have articles to read on the subway Sep 24 14:28:22 find RSS feeds with full content Sep 24 14:29:52 or script using wget? Sep 24 14:31:49 jaffa, all i have seen recently is openness and willingness to communicate with the community :) from what i gather this is different to the past Sep 24 14:31:58 :) Sep 24 14:32:18 hmm Sep 24 14:32:26 perhaps I'll have to whip together a python script that does it Sep 24 14:33:28 with minidom+urllib Sep 24 14:33:55 X-Fade: cool. thanks for the tip! Sep 24 14:34:14 jaffa - something that struck me from the demo you gave on the transcoding and from experiences with liqbase console writing - if you can find a way to limit the output of the progress it runs even faster (maybe updating every 200 or so frames or ocuple of seconds vs current fractions of a second refresh Sep 24 14:35:03 console writing is always slow Sep 24 14:35:10 konttori: Huh? :) Sep 24 14:35:12 yer exactly Sep 24 14:35:20 the pyqt Sep 24 14:35:30 lcuk: but it's good to see what's going on ;) Sep 24 14:35:35 sorry for not including the reason on the thanks Sep 24 14:35:49 gnome-terminal is actually reasonably fast now. Sep 24 14:35:55 Ah, yeah. I say many helpful things in a day :P Sep 24 14:36:01 Which doesn't help maemo, but all the same. Sep 24 14:36:20 yeah, but adding a printf into a loop will slow it down dramatically Sep 24 14:36:31 lardman, absolutely but the threshhold between helpful and OTT slowing down is quite large Sep 24 14:36:56 its even worse if you are running through an ssh type session Sep 24 14:37:13 thats probably where i notice it the most, but know it occurs even locally Sep 24 14:38:00 * lcuk is gonna be sorting out console logging soon :) Sep 24 14:38:09 lardman: I had gnome-terminal dump 300,000 lines of output in 6 or 7 seconds. It's reasonably fast. Sep 24 14:39:07 the other problem i keep encountering is the buffer scrollback length ;) after doing just one or two things without adjusting the scrollback buffer on each install i lose the head Sep 24 14:39:52 * lcuk just realised how my wordcount is so high Sep 24 14:40:26 crap bbl Sep 24 14:41:18 the real question is how you manage to write this much on an n810 Sep 24 14:41:23 Ha Sep 24 14:41:34 Seriously, how can you NOT realize you can compile on-device? Sep 24 14:42:04 lcuk: indeed, I should pass the -quiet option to mencoder when in the GUI; although you need the output to know where to draw the progress bar ;-) Sep 24 14:42:26 derf: true Sep 24 14:49:42 well, you can't compile on a symbian phone Sep 24 14:50:00 so why would you be able to compile on a tablet produced by the same company? =) Sep 24 15:25:56 why is anyone using other window managers besides sawfish? Sep 24 15:28:18 'cause they are better? Sep 24 15:29:02 how can anything be better than resizing your windows from an interactive lisp section Sep 24 15:29:10 I should probably start using emacs too... Sep 24 15:36:07 http://debedb.livejournal.com/173655.html Sep 24 15:36:12 Enjoy :) Sep 24 15:36:14 too bad.. n810 is not available in my country :[ Sep 24 15:36:35 biiter: just order form us, ask someone to bring it back Sep 24 15:39:20 that is bad too.. i don't know someone :) Sep 24 15:40:47 RST38h, I'm trying to figure out what the admin was thinking... Sep 24 15:41:47 johnx: two possibilities Sep 24 15:42:09 johnx: 1. They inserted every single directory from the site into that file to prevent people from tracking changes in their point of view Sep 24 15:42:28 johnx: 2. They inserted just a few sensitive directories [rest is the same] Sep 24 15:43:03 Either way, another confirmation that these are very sleazy bastards Sep 24 15:43:40 well yeah. all gov't is sleazy Sep 24 15:43:45 but this is just dumb Sep 24 15:43:58 I expect them to hide this more cleverly Sep 24 15:47:01 they do not care. nothing anyone can do to them. Sep 24 15:50:06 cu chaps Sep 24 15:50:13 'later lardman Sep 24 15:54:08 RST38h, ok. I see why this is in there. Read the first line: http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/tech/text/ Sep 24 15:56:45 those are honeypots Sep 24 15:59:13 biiter, guess that makes sense Sep 24 16:01:30 johnx: ahhahahahahahahaaa :) Sep 24 16:01:48 RST38h, :P Sep 24 17:07:51 * Jaffa wonders if an HSPA tablet'll be better able to cope with the vagaries of reception on the West Coast Mainline Sep 24 17:08:54 jaffa, only if you can keep normal phone reception anyway Sep 24 17:09:18 h Sep 24 17:10:07 lcuk: more in terms of better handling TCP lag/disconnects Sep 24 17:10:21 and jaffa, excellent on the -h :) im still gonna try it on the tablet soon Sep 24 17:10:29 Jaffa, well they should have room for a huge antenna in there Sep 24 17:10:31 ahhhah Sep 24 17:10:44 I think individual apps will behave differently Sep 24 17:11:05 pidgin for example copes really poorly with momentary loss of connectivity on the desktop Sep 24 17:11:06 we should be able to use our tin-foil hats as plug in antennas Sep 24 17:11:13 anyone know where e2fsprogs went (specifically for diablo) Sep 24 17:11:36 johnx: quit watching me through my tablet's webcam. Sep 24 17:12:30 johnx, thats the same across the board isnt it - you have some apps written to expect loss, others are like eggshells Sep 24 17:12:34 Havi, I'm not even watching the footage. just uploading straight to youtube :P Sep 24 17:13:01 lcuk, yeah...I don't see a way for the OS to force them to behave Sep 24 17:13:10 just make it convenient for them to behave Sep 24 17:13:27 well tcp doesnt generally shout at loss of connection for a while Sep 24 17:14:07 i was enthousiastic about the n810 until i read it doesn't have gsm capability, which is bout the only thing missing Sep 24 17:14:16 johnx: nooo, then everyone will see me dressed as Brittney Spears :( Sep 24 17:14:17 lcuk, that's part of them problem pidgin has I think. the server has dropped you and pidgin doesn't realize until its extremely long timeout expires Sep 24 17:14:24 is there a phone/pda out there which has the same features as the n810 but also includes gsm? Sep 24 17:14:38 (based on maemo i mean) Sep 24 17:14:48 bakarat, not based on maemo Sep 24 17:15:01 bakarat, dont see it as a problem for now, just connect it to your own bluetooth phone Sep 24 17:15:01 johnx: based on linux then? :> Sep 24 17:15:14 lcuk: well the whole idea is to lose my current phone... :> Sep 24 17:15:47 then the short answer is no, the longer one involves different devices with different OSes and capabilities Sep 24 17:15:52 bakarat, maybe some of the MIDs have an HSPA modem, but no voice. The openmoko phone is based on linux. so is the htc g1 based on google's android Sep 24 17:16:37 http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b12/al_oasis1/googleg1.jpg Sep 24 17:16:44 is it just me, or is the screen crooked? Sep 24 17:16:58 troyh, looks like it's in one of the standard maemo.org repos Sep 24 17:17:02 johnx: i was long considering buying a openmoko, but it isn't stable enough for everyday use apparantly and seems to suffer a few hardware problems (slow bus being the worst it seems) Sep 24 17:17:06 Havi, yeah, noticed that too Sep 24 17:17:17 johnx: added to which i can not test nor see in action an actual openmoko so i'd be buying blindly :> Sep 24 17:17:31 and they added the text overlapping the scrollbar area Sep 24 17:17:50 johnx: where? I can't find a .deb in the pool http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/e/e2fsprogs/ Sep 24 17:17:59 lcuk, I think the scrollbar is transparent Sep 24 17:18:01 johnx: and the htc dream isn't out yet, nor can i find a release date/price for the EU atm (i could simply be incomprehensibly blind though :p) Sep 24 17:18:02 is it kinetic Sep 24 17:18:17 johnx, yer its thin i can tell that - its just for identification Sep 24 17:18:20 troyh, well that's interesting Sep 24 17:18:36 bakarat: What's the HTC Dream? Sep 24 17:18:41 lcuk, not kinetic. just drag to scroll Sep 24 17:18:51 o btw, seeing as maemo is based on debian for package management...can i simply install regular .deb packages? :> Sep 24 17:18:54 johnx: interesting or broken? Sep 24 17:18:57 Havi: the android-based phone Sep 24 17:19:01 I know the G1 is going to be launched October 22, for US$175 Sep 24 17:19:10 Havi, htc dream = t-mobile g1 Sep 24 17:19:15 right, right Sep 24 17:19:19 Same thing, then Sep 24 17:19:26 Just locked :( Sep 24 17:19:47 $399 unlocked Sep 24 17:19:52 but with t-mo's 3G bands Sep 24 17:19:58 Pricy Sep 24 17:20:04 we don't even have t-mobile here hehe Sep 24 17:20:09 not bad considering the hardware Sep 24 17:20:16 I already use T-Mobile, so meh Sep 24 17:20:35 i thought it's tmobile hsdpa *band* Sep 24 17:20:35 hmm i've read some (though i admit i haven't really digged all too deep) concerning stuff bout the g1 phone Sep 24 17:20:46 seems they seem to really drive at using google apps Sep 24 17:20:53 which i do _not_ use at all (consciously so) Sep 24 17:20:59 troyh, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/e/e2fsprogs/e2fsprogs_1.37-2sarge1_armel.deb Sep 24 17:21:24 i'm simply looking for a pda/phone platform which runs linux where i can simply you know...work with like an (almost) regular computer :> Sep 24 17:21:31 pfft Sep 24 17:21:47 Wait a few years Sep 24 17:21:51 then try again Sep 24 17:21:57 You want the future Sep 24 17:22:05 :p Sep 24 17:22:08 bakarat, well that's the problem. that perfectly describes the openmoko...but linux's "phone tools" just aren't there yet Sep 24 17:22:28 johnx: if it were only the software that wasn't ready with openmoko, i would probably buy it Sep 24 17:22:40 but it does seem to have a number of hardware drawbacks which can not be solved by software fixes Sep 24 17:22:41 hardware problems too? Sep 24 17:22:41 ick Sep 24 17:22:50 and the open moko's specs suck Sep 24 17:22:51 a slow bus apparantly which well...slows down the whole show :> Sep 24 17:22:51 the freerunner is tehbleh Sep 24 17:22:57 johnx: ahh, thanks! I'm still trying to figure out all of the repo structure. Sep 24 17:23:05 The freerunner also has dev issues Sep 24 17:23:11 Havi: how's that? Sep 24 17:23:22 Hey, I don't like the UI we're working on anymore Sep 24 17:23:42 Let's just ignore the phone and power saving features for now, and work on a new UI Sep 24 17:23:44 \o/ Sep 24 17:23:47 SUCCESS Sep 24 17:23:50 :P Sep 24 17:23:53 one enterprising Brit decided to see just how long it would take for the cops to show up after parading around in front of the cameras in an 8-foot-tall alien outfit. Spoiler: not very long. Sep 24 17:24:01 but i don't mind software-problems "too" much as they can be resolved Sep 24 17:24:03 Was it lcuk? =) Sep 24 17:24:05 bakarat, the video bus? the n810 has a similar problem Sep 24 17:24:09 it's the hardware problems that keep me from buying it Sep 24 17:24:16 johnx: not sure on that one actually Sep 24 17:24:24 would have to look it up Sep 24 17:24:46 it's somewhere on the openmoko site, listed as "accepted shortcomings" :> Sep 24 17:24:49 johnx: but the n810 doesn't use the video bus for all sd-card access too I think... Sep 24 17:25:01 Mek, aaah...I remember now Sep 24 17:25:04 and the fact that apparently sd-card and gps interfere with each other is also not nice :) Sep 24 17:25:07 RST38h, did he get anally probed? Sep 24 17:25:21 Mek, ok, that's really icky Sep 24 17:25:25 Luria: good question. you will have to check the youtube video for that. Sep 24 17:25:49 Ideally, HE would have to anally probe a few coppers before being subdued Sep 24 17:25:51 btw i may have missed the answer to a question i asked a few minutes ago -> can you install regular .deb packages (straight out of debian repos) on maemo? Sep 24 17:25:55 might be a video bus problem Sep 24 17:26:05 oh, >_> Sep 24 17:26:07 bakarat: No. Sep 24 17:26:11 bakarat: Next question? Sep 24 17:26:22 i like the voice mail icon being a tape...some kids will never actually see a tape casette and will get to wonder what the voice mail icon is supposed to be their whole lives... Sep 24 17:26:30 johnx: they can't play mpeg4 @ 320x240 20fps :( Sep 24 17:26:36 are we getting another tablet soon? Sep 24 17:26:41 RST38h: how many "regular" apps (open ssh server, thunderbird, firefox...) are available for maemo? Sep 24 17:26:49 Sargun_Screen, every time someone asks it gets delayed :( Sep 24 17:26:52 and how big is the difference with "regular" .deb's? Sep 24 17:26:54 NO Sep 24 17:26:57 YOU LOSERS Sep 24 17:27:06 bakarat: recompiling source packages for maemo is in most cases trivial; binary packages just don't work Sep 24 17:27:07 RST38h: bakarat could install an arm deb, couldn't he? Sep 24 17:27:09 Now we have to wait an additional four weeks for the tablet. Sep 24 17:27:11 Sargun_Screen, now it won't be until sometime in mid-next year Sep 24 17:27:21 bakarat: go to Maemo Extras repo and count. Sep 24 17:27:34 hehe :p Sep 24 17:27:39 Sargun: He could but most of them would probably have library dependencies that could not be satisfied Sep 24 17:27:43 bakarat, they're standard .debs aimed at a different distro Sep 24 17:27:53 johnx: good, I work for apple... I'll have all my coworkers ask too! (just kidding) Sep 24 17:28:06 johnx: Mek well that's good :p Sep 24 17:28:11 now just need a good hardware platform for it :| Sep 24 17:28:13 RST38h, lcuk is me Sep 24 17:28:14 command line and console stuff works pretty well after recompilation Sep 24 17:28:34 lcuk: You have not been naughty, playing 8-feet alien in front of CCTV tonight? =) Sep 24 17:28:44 bakarat, nah. I gave up on maemo to a certain extent. I'm running debian on my n800 Sep 24 17:28:50 well, now you mention it Sep 24 17:28:55 johnx: how's that working out? :> Sep 24 17:29:12 johnx: how's the power saving? Sep 24 17:29:16 bakarat, pretty well. could be worse. lack of hardware keyboard is my biggest problem Sep 24 17:29:28 johnx: ah, the keyboard is new in n810? Sep 24 17:29:30 johnx, bluetooth? Sep 24 17:29:30 lcuk: if so, have you had a chance to anally probe any of the cops before they got you down? =) Sep 24 17:29:36 Havi, thanks to Stskeeps being rather clever it's better, but not great Sep 24 17:29:37 (haven't looked at the nxxx series too much before like 5 minutes ago hehe) Sep 24 17:29:40 bakarat, yup Sep 24 17:29:43 ic :> Sep 24 17:29:44 johnx: :( Sep 24 17:29:45 lcuk, worked since January Sep 24 17:29:57 excellent then Sep 24 17:30:00 damn, if only the 810 had gsm :'( Sep 24 17:30:02 ah well :| Sep 24 17:30:09 Havi, suspend to RAM works though Sep 24 17:30:09 why do you need gsm? Sep 24 17:30:19 RST38h: well...to call would be the obvious answer :| Sep 24 17:30:34 are you going to stick that thing to your ear? Sep 24 17:30:34 no, cdma/ev-do is way better Sep 24 17:30:40 won't it look ridiculous? Sep 24 17:30:49 RST38h: it has bluetooth... Sep 24 17:30:57 they have announced HSDPA for the next gen models havent they ? Sep 24 17:30:58 so does your phone Sep 24 17:31:00 Sargun_Screen, if you don't travel outside the US... Sep 24 17:31:00 RST38h: and i imagine/hope a connector for wired headphones/mic as well? :> Sep 24 17:31:00 RST38h: nothing is too ridiculous for me Sep 24 17:31:12 RST38h: I was one of the lucky sidetalkers Sep 24 17:31:22 RST38h: ye but i'm looking to rid my phone in favor of a pda/phone thingy instead of just buying a second device ;) Sep 24 17:31:24 N-GAGE FTW Sep 24 17:31:28 so just get yourself a really tiny phone (Samsung U100 or even Nokia E51) and use it Sep 24 17:31:36 Havi: NGage? Sep 24 17:31:41 jonner: i primarily stay in the US Sep 24 17:32:10 Sargun_Screen, lots of people here don't even have cdma networks in their countries Sep 24 17:32:18 we don't! Sep 24 17:32:21 Sargun_Screen, including the person you told "cdma is better" :P Sep 24 17:32:21 praise science! :| Sep 24 17:32:29 RST38h: http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives/photos/ngage.jpg Sep 24 17:32:36 sidetalking at it's finest Sep 24 17:32:36 johnx: well, screw them! Sep 24 17:32:50 gsm ftw! :| Sep 24 17:33:09 Havi: Yea, I heard of this... And the funny thing is, for all this humiliation you got the hardware identical to normal nokia phones Sep 24 17:33:15 yeah, I'm a fan of gsm/hspa as well Sep 24 17:33:18 btw, we are about the only country in the world (the only one i believe, but i could be wrong) where it is actually legally forbidden to combine contracts with phones etc :> Sep 24 17:33:27 RST38h: of course Sep 24 17:33:38 except the N-Gage totally had a well made dpad Sep 24 17:33:40 took aaaaaages to get the iphone here and even now it's not really big here (i call that a win btw) Sep 24 17:33:57 bakarat: Here it is not forbidden but stupid. Sep 24 17:34:02 so nobody does it Sep 24 17:34:06 :> Sep 24 17:34:08 The d-pad on the N-Gage is among the best, IMO Sep 24 17:34:21 But that's just my preference Sep 24 17:34:29 i rather have an affirmative "it is illegal" then a "i rather you didn't" attitude ;) Sep 24 17:34:33 The d-pad - yes... Sep 24 17:34:50 Havi: yeah.. i like it too Sep 24 17:34:54 bakarat: in fact, you can avoid doing it in the US as well Sep 24 17:35:19 bakarat: but most people agree for this toilet plunger to save money on their phone Sep 24 17:35:27 See? The N-Gage sucked, but at least we can say, it had a good d-pad Sep 24 17:35:34 RST38h: wot good is saving a few bucks on a phone if you are tied with a 2 year contract? Sep 24 17:35:39 which actually costs more then the damn phone ;) Sep 24 17:35:48 Havi: it was good value for money s60 phone for a while.. more ram than 3650 too Sep 24 17:36:06 Havi: it was an otherwise pretty average S60 phone. Didn't suck so much, except for the side-talking fiasco Sep 24 17:36:08 bakarat: if you were already going to go with the carrier for two years Sep 24 17:36:22 Havi: true Sep 24 17:36:25 then you save money :P Sep 24 17:36:27 :> Sep 24 17:36:32 bakarat: you are not saving much but a lot of people do not get it Sep 24 17:36:34 glass_: too bad the library bombed Sep 24 17:36:35 well i don't really go for phone contracts atm :> Sep 24 17:36:44 I hate phone contracts Sep 24 17:36:47 i charge up my phone with a minimal amount for emergency use Sep 24 17:36:47 Say. This is not really channel relevant, but I have a Nokia brick that's been pissing me off. Sep 24 17:36:50 I do pay as you go shit Sep 24 17:36:59 and do everything else either with someone elses phone or (preferably) over sip Sep 24 17:37:22 It replaced my old nokia brick with a newer model, and has a bunch of AT&T trash on it. It seems to have less memory available for my apps than the old brick, so I'm blaming these extra apps I don't use Sep 24 17:37:29 nemo: What model of a brick? Sep 24 17:37:31 Anyone know of programs to manipulate Nokia phones? Sep 24 17:37:37 RST38h: lemme look it up Sep 24 17:37:44 oh, you affectionately call the power supply this name... Sep 24 17:37:58 nemo: you can uninstall the pre-installed .jars.. iirc Sep 24 17:38:01 off for a bit now (i need food! :|) Sep 24 17:38:08 nemo: You can hard-reset it Sep 24 17:38:08 glass_: well. most of those I removed Sep 24 17:38:15 nemo: there is a key combination Sep 24 17:38:19 glass_: but there's some other stuff on there. AT&T "mall" "e-mail" Sep 24 17:38:22 most of main menu Sep 24 17:38:47 wondering if there is like a dæmon sitting in background waiting for port SMS for notifications that will never arrive Sep 24 17:38:51 nemo: oh then. fw stuff.. dunno, i think reflashing those needs some special cable Sep 24 17:38:54 'cause, yeah, seems I have literally half the old memory Sep 24 17:39:40 nemo: What model, again? Sep 24 17:40:37 RST38h: was staring at the pictures Sep 24 17:40:41 looks like the Nokia 2610 Sep 24 17:41:03 Forget it then Sep 24 17:41:11 Old phone Sep 24 17:41:13 2610 isn't upgradable at home Sep 24 17:41:41 RST38h: yeah. well. I only use this phone for phone calls Sep 24 17:41:46 battery lasts essentially forever Sep 24 17:41:58 was annoyed though that a midp app I was testing couldn't load without oom error Sep 24 17:42:03 and worked on older model of brick I had Sep 24 17:42:22 nemo: that's a bit of an exaggeration Sep 24 17:42:26 Havi, see the new comic reader? Sep 24 17:42:30 hm. Sep 24 17:42:37 johnx: yeah, I posted there too Sep 24 17:42:38 RST38h: you know... they might have screwed me Sep 24 17:42:43 RST38h: I looked up the "old" phone I had Sep 24 17:42:44 the nokia batteries are amazing though (compared to else) Sep 24 17:42:47 johnx: I still prefer evince Sep 24 17:42:48 was Nokia 6030 - that could explain a lot Sep 24 17:42:57 ok Sep 24 17:42:57 Havi, ah, nm. I just opened the thread Sep 24 17:43:12 Evince is snappier :/ Sep 24 17:43:16 too bad Sep 24 17:43:17 Sargun_Screen: heh. Well, I mean I charge it like once a week. Sep 24 17:43:30 Sargun_Screen: I don't make that many calls, but still Sep 24 17:43:53 phone isn't doing much, so needs less power compared to a fancier portable computer-like phone Sep 24 17:45:55 penguinbait, how well does windowmaker run? Sep 24 17:46:07 real well Sep 24 17:46:12 excellent Sep 24 17:46:15 very fast Sep 24 17:46:28 i was considering messing a while back and that was one of the options Sep 24 17:46:36 glad its on the device Sep 24 17:46:55 I wanted to make something small, no boot from SD needed Sep 24 17:47:02 whats it like for getting software into it - do standard (recompiled) apps work Sep 24 17:47:22 or do they themselves need porting to windowmaker (much the same way as a port to hildon Sep 24 17:47:34 Its maemo under the covers, just instal via appmanager or compile and install Sep 24 17:47:45 i mean apps running inside it Sep 24 17:47:52 windowmaker is standard, not porting necessary Sep 24 17:48:25 Its like running them in normal windowmaker on PC, but its still 800x480 Sep 24 17:48:26 so what, an x11 app will work out of the box Sep 24 17:48:33 yup Sep 24 17:48:47 * lcuk will have to try it Sep 24 17:49:06 excellent, thanks for porting it - did you have any oddities? Sep 24 17:49:33 Just one, when you close the last window on the screen, the keyboard shortcuts stop working Sep 24 17:49:44 heh, i just got to that on your blog :D Sep 24 17:49:46 If you switch desktops they start working again Sep 24 17:50:05 johnx : http://cgi.ebay.com/Dolch-PAC-BMU-Vintage-Computer_W0QQitemZ120308651425QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item120308651425&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 Sep 24 17:50:05 I have not really had time to figure out why yet? Sep 24 17:50:17 that looks familiar Sep 24 17:50:56 ooooer penguin - they are probably working still, just effecting someone elses nokia halfway round the world :D Sep 24 17:51:11 Luria, a little different. same idea though Sep 24 17:51:20 http://cgi.ebay.com/DOLCH-PAC62-PAC-62-NETWORK-ANALYZER-100MHz-32MB_W0QQitemZ280260334270QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280260334270&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177 Sep 24 17:51:25 could be, I will need to press them more often Sep 24 17:51:27 a bit closer Sep 24 17:51:48 same casing Sep 24 17:51:51 lol, you will stop my movie playin Sep 24 17:52:03 so, dolch made the machine for airlink Sep 24 17:52:35 its a dead tie, so far I have had 20 downloads of pico and fdisk today :) Sep 24 17:53:00 Luria, cool find. is it an atx case inside? Sep 24 17:53:59 mine? mine is a backplane with a 4 slot isa riser, cpu/ram card in an isa slot Sep 24 17:54:27 penguinbait, please, commit your stuff to extras Sep 24 17:54:51 the repo? Sep 24 17:55:03 yep Sep 24 17:55:09 <__275> holla Sep 24 17:55:51 <__275> penguinbait this is rather cute Sep 24 17:56:22 I will consider it Sep 24 17:56:32 275 on my chat page? Sep 24 17:57:05 <__275> yes, and theres a bit of lag, whats it wrote in? Sep 24 17:58:18 its just a wordpress plugin, in php and cgi:irc Sep 24 17:58:41 I did not notice a big lag though Sep 24 17:58:44 very nice though, interesting to think about Sep 24 17:58:49 i think the chan was just goin slow Sep 24 17:59:02 ahh, the lag is not when recving, its sending Sep 24 17:59:18 <__275> cos i type here and it takes a while to show up Sep 24 17:59:18 I was using it next to irc client running yesterday and it seemed fine Sep 24 17:59:22 <__275> humm, its caught up now :D lol Sep 24 17:59:33 275 you need to hit enter twice Sep 24 17:59:39 not sure why ? Sep 24 17:59:52 <__275> hit it twice just once before it catches up and works normally after that? Sep 24 18:00:17 <__275> you will probably find this is where your windowmaker keystrokes are goin to :D Sep 24 18:00:38 hehe, Sep 24 18:01:19 heh, it would be a bit scary if one of these was on the front of the nokia homepage by default.. Sep 24 18:01:43 "hELLO CAN YOU HERE ME????" Sep 24 18:02:04 I WANT TO INSTALL GNOME?? HOW DO I DO THAT?? Sep 24 18:02:16 I'd just pull out the banhammer and never stop. Sep 24 18:02:18 :D heh, i cant find norton Sep 24 18:02:22 HOW DO I OPEN WORD DOCUMENTS ?? Sep 24 18:02:29 Wheres my start button Sep 24 18:02:47 Its the K in the lower right corner :) Sep 24 18:02:51 ;) Sep 24 18:03:07 or the X in the top right ;) Sep 24 18:03:54 GeneralAntilles, do you have nightmares about stuff like that happenin? Sep 24 18:04:03 heh Sep 24 18:04:10 Sometimes Sep 24 18:04:16 or is it like a victory parade where you are weilding your gavel Sep 24 18:04:40 I was added to syndication, thanks GA Sep 24 18:05:03 penguinbait: Yep, added you this morning. Sep 24 18:05:08 penguinbait, anyway, very impressive Sep 24 18:05:49 GeneralAntilles: Can you try out if you can plan an event? Sep 24 18:05:56 and your blog layout is one of the best ive ever seen Sep 24 18:06:05 I love ITT, but it is becomming a cluster bleep, so I needed somwhere to bring my crap all together Sep 24 18:06:17 X-Fade, are we back in rw now? Sep 24 18:06:37 GeneralAntilles: For maemo.org we seem to be. Sep 24 18:06:54 Hrm, where do I go to plan one? Sep 24 18:07:14 GeneralAntilles: https://maemo.org/news/events/ Sep 24 18:07:42 And see if your menu shows 'create event' ;) Sep 24 18:07:50 Folder -> Create event Sep 24 18:08:06 Well, another problem solved ;) Sep 24 18:08:14 I actually _do_ have an event to create. Sep 24 18:08:18 Can I go ahead and do so? Sep 24 18:08:23 I guess you can plan your IRC meeting there. Sep 24 18:08:37 back later guys Sep 24 18:08:43 You can edit an event's time after the fact, though, right? Sep 24 18:09:08 GeneralAntilles: Yes, sure. That would be pretty lame ;) Sep 24 18:09:22 Hey, there's no preview button. :P Sep 24 18:09:37 No, there is edit for that ;) Sep 24 18:14:39 X-Fade, we decide on a date for the sprint 5 review yet? Sep 24 18:15:00 GeneralAntilles: No, not that I know. Sep 24 18:15:51 and what about continuation to sprint 6, 7, 8, etc? Sep 24 18:16:20 Well..... ;) Sep 24 18:21:35 etrunko, lardman|gone, Jaffa, I'm creating a blog entry to advertise the content cleanup and redesign a bit. Sep 24 18:23:10 I guess Midgard wont let me put in an irc:// link? Sep 24 18:23:37 the irc:// link requires a specific firefox extension Sep 24 18:24:04 Works just fine here in OmniWeb and Safari. . . . Sep 24 18:24:21 GeneralAntilles: I think it is tinymce which borks. Sep 24 18:24:22 etrunko, extension? Or just setting a helper app for this protocol? Sep 24 18:24:31 ^ Sep 24 18:24:40 You don't need Chatzilla to use it. ;) Sep 24 18:24:43 GeneralAntilles: You might want to try to edit the pure html? Sep 24 18:24:50 yacoob: or that Sep 24 18:24:50 :) Sep 24 18:25:10 X-Fade, can I do that? Sep 24 18:26:18 Yes, there is a html button in the editor. Sep 24 18:28:28 I don't see it. Sep 24 18:28:32 But it's not particularly important. Sep 24 18:30:10 GeneralAntilles: It should be in the top row of the wysiwyg text editor. Sep 24 18:37:04 There no two ways about it Sep 24 18:37:06 I love VMWare Sep 24 18:37:36 How about three ways? Sep 24 18:37:46 You're the third way Sep 24 18:43:05 https://maemo.org/community/council/view/1222281699.html Sep 24 18:44:43 penguinbait, can I talk you into documenting your cloning deb here yet? Sep 24 18:44:45 ~boot-sd Sep 24 18:44:45 from memory, boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card Sep 24 18:53:06 GeneralAntilles: looks cool Sep 24 18:53:22 GeneralAntilles: add a link to timeanddate.com for 19:00 UTC? Sep 24 18:54:01 Feel free. :P Sep 24 18:54:43 I will try to join the meeting, but I might have family things planned. So we'll see ;) Sep 24 18:55:25 Sorry I stepped away, I will try to get to it GA (I hate wiki's) Sep 24 18:55:40 What's to hate? Sep 24 18:56:06 looks much better than last time I looked Sep 24 18:57:10 GeneralAntilles: true - may have to wait for the boy to be in bed Sep 24 18:59:55 jaffa, if you wait for GeneralAntilles to be in bed who will wave the banhammer :D Sep 24 19:00:24 s0nted, hello - THANK YOU for the amazing time we had in c-base Sep 24 19:00:43 thanks for making it such a successful event :) Sep 24 19:00:56 the standing ovations felt wonderful Sep 24 19:01:04 lcuk, local time will be about 3:00 PM. :P Sep 24 19:01:21 s0nted, if you dont mind, who are you - i obviously dont have a clue Sep 24 19:01:27 lol gen Sep 24 19:01:41 I am the housetier Sep 24 19:01:59 the one and only ^_^ (at least on the space station) Sep 24 19:02:18 lol, that means nothing to me lol - are you vin diesel or one of the others? :D Sep 24 19:02:59 I am the baldy with the small head, running around in a black hoody and making an angry face all the time Sep 24 19:03:45 heh you were smiling at weekend :) Sep 24 19:03:59 i have already made arrangements with a few friends to return on my next trip to berlin Sep 24 19:04:06 heh great Sep 24 19:04:27 did anyone lose any nokia devices? Sep 24 19:04:36 if so, they were all mine Sep 24 19:05:15 we couldnt even find a t-shirt or jacket (the usual leftovers), also no rucksacks or electronic devices Sep 24 19:05:23 lcuk, you meant to phrase that "I lost 3 N810s and an N800." :P Sep 24 19:06:01 * GeneralAntilles checks if he can write to the wiki yet. Sep 24 19:06:05 i know at least one guy left his suitcase there, though that was intentional i think Sep 24 19:06:44 we drunk a lot and had a great time, i hope we didnt break anything in the partying afterwards Sep 24 19:06:47 the DJ from friday left his stuff Sep 24 19:07:18 I have heard no complaints whatsoever Sep 24 19:07:30 dj hienergy :) Sep 24 19:07:33 yeah Sep 24 19:07:51 he is a little "weird" but very nice Sep 24 19:07:56 i got his myspace details and am gonna grab some of his tracks, had a really good mood to it Sep 24 19:08:01 "SSU update repository procedure" or "Tableteer update repository procedure"? Sep 24 19:08:10 oh yeah that elevator music hahaha Sep 24 19:08:14 without wierdness there is no normality Sep 24 19:08:16 Hellooo, qooole Sep 24 19:08:24 hey Sep 24 19:08:29 hi qole \o Sep 24 19:08:40 * lcuk teases you with a liqbase build Sep 24 19:08:51 hey manchester man! Sep 24 19:09:09 eh! Sep 24 19:09:22 :D you dont come in here often Sep 24 19:09:30 or do you lurk in a different nick :P Sep 24 19:10:04 I keep forgetting irc... Sep 24 19:10:20 yer, it keeps forgettin you as well Sep 24 19:11:02 rm_you helped me get on, now I gotta remember to log in Sep 24 19:11:30 You should be able to set up your client to do it automatically. Sep 24 19:11:37 i had jott setup x-chat on my diablo build, i tried before the summit but it was bein screwy with me Sep 24 19:12:11 where should i put a new button in liqbase Sep 24 19:12:48 I remembered IRC because I have a tech question... Sep 24 19:12:51 qole !! Sep 24 19:13:18 wow, all the big names are here... Sep 24 19:13:28 actually, penguinbait you havent been in a lot until very recently again, and KotCzarny is back - its like a love in Sep 24 19:13:34 <_< Sep 24 19:13:48 qole, IRC is where all the Kool Kats reside. ;) Sep 24 19:13:51 lol gen Sep 24 19:13:58 * GeneralAntilles has no love for KotCzarny. Sep 24 19:14:17 im sure he shares the no-love with you as well :D Sep 24 19:14:20 q: 810 users, what does this display? Sep 24 19:14:25 cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep Hardware | cut -d " " -f 3 Sep 24 19:14:31 GeneralAntilles: So hostile... Sep 24 19:14:32 lcuk, clearly not. Sep 24 19:14:51 RX-44 Sep 24 19:15:00 X-Fade, he nearly drove me out of this channel before he left last time. Sep 24 19:15:08 thanks!! Sep 24 19:15:21 GeneralAntilles: But now you got ... ops ;) Sep 24 19:15:26 you're welcome!! Sep 24 19:15:51 That reminds me, did you bless etrunko, lardman, Jaffa, and timsamoff? Sep 24 19:15:53 what ya plannin qole? Sep 24 19:16:01 Next; how to generate pgp & ssh keys for extras upload... Sep 24 19:16:04 GeneralAntilles, it's your fault Sep 24 19:16:14 gen, when you get pissed off do you throw your chair around? Sep 24 19:16:24 Navi, it's _always_ my fault, no need to state the obvious. :P Sep 24 19:16:25 GeneralAntilles: I guess I gave jaffa those rights together with you. Sep 24 19:16:28 KotCzarny, you suck Sep 24 19:16:42 lcuk, nah, I just let it simmer until I have to blow off steam at Nokia. ;) Sep 24 19:16:56 GeneralAntilles: But I will do that tomorrow. I guess we can trust these guys, no? :) Sep 24 19:17:05 When I get pissed off, everything in my room is broken Sep 24 19:17:13 X-Fade, well, that, or I activate their taser implants. Sep 24 19:17:18 I try not to leave expensive stuff in here. Sep 24 19:17:27 Navi, you're telekinetic? :D Sep 24 19:17:33 GeneralAntilles, ha Sep 24 19:17:52 If I were telekinetic, I would have made KotCzarny's head explode already Sep 24 19:18:11 I was going to type brain instead of head, 'cuz I almost forgot Sep 24 19:18:19 Ok, later. I'm off. Sep 24 19:18:23 :( i dont like to see unhappy punters especially when i dont know why Sep 24 19:18:29 cya X-Fade have fun Sep 24 19:19:23 lcuk, I do love drinking and gambling at pubs Sep 24 19:19:47 at pubs or anywhere Sep 24 19:19:50 lcuk, if I'm an unhappy punter, it's because I forgot that I can't hold my liquor Sep 24 19:20:16 i normally skip the drinking and blackjack Sep 24 19:20:30 I needed the results of that command so I can make my post-install put the right keymap on your device Sep 24 19:20:32 lol penguinbait Sep 24 19:20:50 cool, happy to oblige then Sep 24 19:21:19 right, getting head back into it, ive got 3 goals this evening Sep 24 19:21:33 I prefer gamibling with friends, then you know who to jump at the end of the evening :) Sep 24 19:22:16 give me my danm money back!! Sep 24 19:22:57 sorry about all the penguinbaits joinging, I was testing some diff irc skins Sep 24 19:23:14 its a good job you know where to stop, i once nearly lost my wife in a poker game Sep 24 19:23:42 Don't worry. Next time you'll know not to stop there. Sep 24 19:23:50 Haha Sep 24 19:23:56 I seen someone bet their boots, and walked home barefoot :) Sep 24 19:24:01 oooh I should post my absinthe video here... Sep 24 19:24:06 :D yeah Sep 24 19:24:17 and then post online links to download actual absinthe Sep 24 19:24:31 I taped the magic transformation that occurs when you add water to absinth Sep 24 19:24:36 absinthe Sep 24 19:24:38 the internet is a series of alcohol filled tubes :D Sep 24 19:24:53 free as in beer? Sep 24 19:24:59 it was on friday night :) Sep 24 19:27:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7xbmyRfP0o Sep 24 19:27:45 your upload is quick - last video i put up took forever Sep 24 19:27:50 This is the absinthe I bought before going to the Openismus party Sep 24 19:28:11 I uploaded last night... it took forever, yes. Sep 24 19:28:32 its not very green, and you really need the sugar :P:P Sep 24 19:29:11 it is very green. My camera doesn't capture that. It is a yellow-green Sep 24 19:29:12 is that mrs qole i hear ? Sep 24 19:29:19 hee hee Sep 24 19:29:22 yea Sep 24 19:29:35 i went to a kylie concert - the lighting was some electric blue amazing shade - on the camera it looked awful Sep 24 19:29:38 my narration sucks Sep 24 19:29:46 better accent than me ;) Sep 24 19:30:10 how drunk would that get you Sep 24 19:30:50 straight up, the absinthe I bought has 72% alc. Sep 24 19:31:05 so it all depends how much water you add :D Sep 24 19:31:25 i know that, but in real terms how many glasses do you drink before giving up for the night (or should i say waking up in the mornin) Sep 24 19:32:00 I'm not the guy to ask, I can't drink very much before feeling like crap the next day Sep 24 19:32:09 the n800 self recording video you made - is it youtube thats out of sync, or the recording you made Sep 24 19:32:56 the recording... there's something wrong with the camera on the N800, drops frames while recording, makes a hash of av sync Sep 24 19:33:17 what res did you record at Sep 24 19:33:37 and i know that - i dont think its the cam, theres a process running about 3 times a second which drags entire system with it Sep 24 19:34:03 kill it Sep 24 19:34:05 :) Sep 24 19:34:10 known bug in the kernel, but the patch doesn't help much except to kill the error messages Sep 24 19:34:12 i notice it when looking at certain screens - it does 25fps most of the time, then drops Sep 24 19:34:13 kill kill kill Sep 24 19:34:30 renicing also works Sep 24 19:34:32 good mornin to you kot :) lol Sep 24 19:34:37 nicing what? my app Sep 24 19:34:39 * KotCzarny has mmc and xomap renice3d Sep 24 19:34:49 reniced Sep 24 19:34:58 'fternoon Sep 24 19:35:00 :) Sep 24 19:35:25 and i think i have reniced something else too Sep 24 19:35:29 but don't remember what Sep 24 19:36:03 lol probably something random and not vital until it overlaps you tryin to do somethin ;0 Sep 24 19:36:22 anyway, i said a few minutes ago im goin Sep 24 19:36:26 * lcuk is on a mission Sep 24 19:36:34 :) Sep 24 19:36:47 ok, breakfast time Sep 24 19:36:54 the problem manifests as a VIDIOC_DQBUF error in VLC Sep 24 19:37:15 oooer Sep 24 19:37:28 arghhh tell me later evil irc Sep 24 19:37:38 * lcuk shuts it off to stop lookin Sep 24 19:37:44 :) Sep 24 19:37:48 addict Sep 24 19:38:04 feck off Sep 24 19:38:13 i can quit anytime i want Sep 24 19:38:14 you turned it off Sep 24 19:38:16 remember Sep 24 19:38:23 :) Sep 24 19:38:23 :D Sep 24 19:38:29 http://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=661 Sep 24 19:38:29 don't blow your cover Sep 24 19:38:33 :) Sep 24 19:39:21 but isn't that patch only hiding the missing frames? Sep 24 19:39:37 maybe it should return blank frame instead Sep 24 19:39:43 exactly... doesn't fix the problem, just hides it Sep 24 19:40:06 so av sync still slips Sep 24 19:40:40 mail the author of the patch about it? :) Sep 24 19:40:55 anyway, thanks for help, all! Sep 24 19:51:04 https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:SSU_update_repository_procedure Sep 24 19:58:31 haha! finally made matchbox-keyboard behave in debian Sep 24 19:58:34 that took waaaay too much effort Sep 24 19:59:25 johnx what was the problem? Sep 24 20:00:04 woglinde, it behaves in a somewhat silly way when not used with matchbox-wm Sep 24 20:00:23 hm Sep 24 20:00:31 it wanted to be at the top of the screen and wouldn't set it's window type or wm_class Sep 24 20:00:36 xkbd works fine *g* Sep 24 20:01:03 woglinde, under matchbox-wm or something else? Sep 24 20:01:49 on n8xx Sep 24 20:02:04 right, so under matchbox-wm Sep 24 20:02:15 matchbox-keyboard is fine too under matchbox-wm Sep 24 20:02:31 but when you try and use it with another wm it behaves badly Sep 24 20:02:43 hm the kde virtualkeyboard works fine for me on blackbox Sep 24 20:02:47 ...and I like being able to resize my windows :) Sep 24 20:02:55 yes Sep 24 20:02:59 I agree Sep 24 20:03:33 anyways, it's docked against the bottom nicely now Sep 24 20:03:51 apps don't maximize over it and they don't even get placed over it when it's visible Sep 24 20:03:57 I'll consider this victory for now Sep 24 20:04:15 and all I had to do was re-learn lisp... Sep 24 20:04:44 huh matchboxkeyboard is written in lisp? Sep 24 20:04:49 nope Sep 24 20:05:00 I hacked this from a window manager point of view Sep 24 20:05:02 sawfish is awesome Sep 24 20:05:37 hm than you did the same trick like me for nx stuff on the n810? Sep 24 20:05:57 looking for window and then set wm_class and stuff Sep 24 20:06:05 yeah Sep 24 20:06:14 Hi there Sep 24 20:06:19 sawfish just waits for a window named "Keyboard" to get mapped then mangles it :) Sep 24 20:07:00 hi GNUton Sep 24 20:07:55 hm I build in nxproxy let search in seperate thread Sep 24 20:07:57 *g* Sep 24 20:08:04 libxuu rockz for this Sep 24 20:12:21 hi GNUton Sep 24 20:26:59 omfg.. i'm having space-problems and now i see the sample pictures provided by nokia.. theres a 2 MB jpeg in there.. OMFG Sep 24 20:27:10 heh Sep 24 20:27:14 been there, done that Sep 24 20:27:19 check out the PDFs they give you too Sep 24 20:27:23 and that video Sep 24 20:29:49 i thought they'd reside on the internal 2gb space.. but noes.... Sep 24 20:30:10 the pdfs are nice, too... portugese manuals even in 2 versions etc.etc.etc.. Sep 24 20:30:38 oh lala.. Sep 24 20:31:16 i wonder who needs manual to use it.. Sep 24 20:31:42 they're probably obliged to deliver it Sep 24 20:31:45 I guess they accidentally sold it to people who weren't computer geeks or something Sep 24 20:32:35 isn't it kind of 'put fewer buttons and more pictograms' device? Sep 24 20:33:09 and the user guide explains the pictograms to people who haven't seen them Sep 24 20:33:21 or some dork who wasn't in any way neither geek nor coder (e.g. business-consultant or somewhat) put the stuff on.. Sep 24 20:33:23 isn't the point of pictograms to be obvious? Sep 24 20:33:24 :) Sep 24 20:33:55 meh Sep 24 20:34:02 KotCzarny: yet you bet, stupid wallstreet managers need some extra-explanation... Sep 24 20:34:46 the avg. blackberry user NEEEDS a Manual! And Colourful videos! And 2 Meg JPEGS!! (must be at compression level 0...) Sep 24 20:35:12 you mean, those stupids rule our economy? Sep 24 20:35:13 :) Sep 24 20:35:19 GZZZ. All that shit is hidden, even! Sep 24 20:35:26 KotCzarny: yea. Sep 24 20:35:38 no wonder i missed it until i just started a backup via scp.. Sep 24 20:35:51 :) Sep 24 20:35:59 KotCzarny, and they have lots more money than us. makes you think about priorities, huh? Sep 24 20:36:04 scp won't backup device and special files Sep 24 20:36:40 johnx: scary Sep 24 20:36:41 :) Sep 24 20:36:48 13 megs of international userguides. *PLONK* Sep 24 20:36:59 riot: clone to sd Sep 24 20:37:01 :) Sep 24 20:37:07 KotCzarny: i'm just backing up my /home/user Sep 24 20:37:15 the os seems to be broken.. i get strange errors. Sep 24 20:37:23 and i wanted to upgrade to diablo anyway Sep 24 20:38:48 KotCzarny: then i'd rather mount a sshfs. My card's full :) Sep 24 20:39:20 :) Sep 24 20:39:27 clone to sd Sep 24 20:39:33 clone the os to sd Sep 24 20:39:34 :) Sep 24 20:40:08 nah, i won't. Sep 24 20:40:19 why, it's simple Sep 24 20:40:20 :) Sep 24 20:40:45 sd -> full Sep 24 20:40:54 os -> b0rked Sep 24 20:41:06 1gig for os, 3gigs for data Sep 24 20:41:10 works for me Sep 24 20:41:11 :) Sep 24 20:41:31 got a 3 tb raid here and fast wireless. Sep 24 20:41:41 but n8x0 has slow wireless Sep 24 20:41:43 :) Sep 24 20:42:11 right. How much bandwidth does it when transferring to sd? Sep 24 20:42:21 i currently have avg. 600 kb/sec Sep 24 20:43:13 hmm Sep 24 20:43:18 you mean sd speed? Sep 24 20:43:23 or wifi -> sd speed? Sep 24 20:43:34 internal flash -> sd Sep 24 20:43:40 should be few megs Sep 24 20:43:49 assuming your sd is fast Sep 24 20:44:09 and you don't copy many small files Sep 24 20:44:10 should be, its a sandisk 8 GB Sep 24 20:44:31 every flash fails when copying many small files Sep 24 20:45:16 scp does so, too, right now Sep 24 20:46:03 well.. gotta go.. cya later :) Sep 24 20:47:09 :) Sep 24 20:52:15 moo-di-hoo Sep 24 20:52:23 'lo Sep 24 20:59:09 quick screenie before bed: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/awesome-keyboard3.png Sep 24 20:59:31 hmm Sep 24 20:59:41 make it transparent Sep 24 20:59:42 :> Sep 24 20:59:59 because everything is better transparent? Sep 24 21:00:09 to make it less easy to see on a tiny screen? Sep 24 21:00:23 because it will not make things claustrophobic Sep 24 21:00:40 i think it looks awesome Sep 24 21:00:44 is that a deblet? Sep 24 21:00:53 moontiger, yup Sep 24 21:00:58 lxde? Sep 24 21:00:58 johnx, but don't mind me, i'm kidding a little Sep 24 21:01:01 I've been doing some fine tuning Sep 24 21:01:07 KotCzarny, I figured :P Sep 24 21:01:13 yeah, lxde Sep 24 21:01:23 can't decide if I like the panel to the right or left Sep 24 21:01:26 is the install for that clean and non-destructive? Sep 24 21:02:41 deblet? or my couple little hacks? Sep 24 21:06:59 I have a nokia n810 (which runs OS2008, 2.2007.51-3), and I'm trying to track down the SDK python version ... basically, i'm trying to use python code that depends on the compile module. Accoring to http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/pymaemo_tutorial/python_maemo_howto.html that module is included only in the SDK. Is this the right place to ask about that? Sep 24 21:08:09 lakin, sure Sep 24 21:08:42 if it's in the sdk, then it's probably in one of the repos here: http://repository.maemo.org/#sdk_debian Sep 24 21:10:06 * johnx sleeps Sep 24 21:10:51 * KotCzarny yawns Sep 24 21:11:54 johnx: thanks Sep 24 21:16:57 lakin, try the package python2.5-dev Sep 24 21:17:26 lmoura, i'm trying to install it on the device, can I just use apt-get from the terminal? Sep 24 21:18:10 lakin, if the extras repo is enable, I think so Sep 24 21:18:54 hrrm, don't have the appropriate permissions, guess I need to find out how to gain those permissions Sep 24 21:21:30 ~rootsh Sep 24 21:21:31 [rootsh] an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/ Sep 24 21:33:39 hey, we're seeing some /var/tmp files created for mmaps -- anyone know what they are? Sep 24 21:33:57 anonymous mmaps Sep 24 21:34:11 thanks GAN800 Sep 24 21:42:13 hrmm, python2.5-dev is already installed Sep 24 21:42:18 but still no compile module Sep 24 21:51:31 lakin: what is the exact name of the module you are looking for? Sep 24 21:51:37 compile Sep 24 21:51:48 let me double check that Sep 24 21:53:22 there is codeop, py_compile and compileall modules in python library reference, but no compile Sep 24 21:53:45 Compile class exists in codeop module Sep 24 21:54:15 yeah, I'm double checking Sep 24 21:54:44 ah, compiler package exists Sep 24 21:54:59 yeah, that's probably it. Sep 24 21:56:12 yep, it's called compiler Sep 24 21:56:28 bloody hell, compiler is installed Sep 24 21:57:04 it must have been installed when I installed the maemo-python-dev-env or some such package, I forget its exact name, but I was testing it by importing the wrong module. Thanks! Sep 24 21:57:29 mikkov_: thanks for helping me get my head out of the clouds Sep 24 21:57:44 no problem ;) Sep 24 22:34:40 anyone managed to install new canola? Sep 24 22:35:03 it wants new canolad Sep 24 22:50:34 svu, beta10? Sep 24 22:53:30 hi Sep 24 22:56:27 Navi, yes Sep 25 01:02:50 hello! Sep 25 01:03:31 I finally got hackeros 2007 to flash on my 770! Yay! I'm looking for which program can run like a large clock Sep 25 01:03:59 ? Sep 25 01:04:11 * KotCzarny misread it as 'large cock' Sep 25 01:04:12 doh Sep 25 01:04:13 a full screen clock Sep 25 01:04:39 LOL Sep 25 01:05:00 * Dsnye hits clear screen to no avail... Sep 25 01:05:01 as for clock, hmm Sep 25 01:05:31 anyone ported xscreen saver to maemo? Sep 25 01:05:46 will hackeros 2008 give me flash on my 770? Sep 25 01:07:27 anyone have a collection of background pictures for the tablet PCs? Sep 25 01:07:59 i guess any bg will do Sep 25 01:08:29 wallpaper app can crop/fit automatically Sep 25 01:08:32 what's the best size for a background? Sep 25 01:08:38 800x480 Sep 25 01:09:01 Thanks! Sep 25 01:09:28 anyone here have a 770 with hackeros 2008 on it? Sep 25 01:09:47 yes, but not me Sep 25 01:10:35 Besides, obviously, the camera and FM tuner functions, do programs work on the 770? Sep 25 01:10:51 probably not Sep 25 01:10:56 unless hw is included on 770 Sep 25 01:11:11 but correct me if i'm wrong Sep 25 01:11:17 hw == hardware Sep 25 01:11:54 so there is no flash for 770 in any os? Sep 25 01:12:03 don't know Sep 25 01:12:20 my guess it's not compiled for 770's cpu Sep 25 01:13:04 oh. Well, at least I can download videos to my MMC and then watch Sep 25 01:13:58 Was hoping there was a way to listen to internet radio from my local station - its clear channel and I can't get it on my linux machine Sep 25 01:14:14 internet radio != fm radio Sep 25 01:14:46 but it does not have my local station - a Clear Channel station Sep 25 01:14:47 do they have wma/mp3/ogg stream? Sep 25 01:15:32 I've been unable to determine what - the link to the stream is buried - you have to launch their player in a window Sep 25 01:15:48 run through proxy and log the urls Sep 25 01:15:50 :) Sep 25 01:16:04 proxy? Sep 25 01:16:08 yes Sep 25 01:16:28 that's a linux program? Sep 25 01:16:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_server Sep 25 01:17:17 if/when I find the right url, can it be added to fm player? Sep 25 01:17:31 fm not, regular media player, maybe Sep 25 01:17:40 fm means hardware decoding Sep 25 01:17:45 without internet Sep 25 01:18:12 oh, okay Sep 25 01:18:25 I'm going to check out Proxy-server Thanks!!! Sep 25 01:21:21 that proxy stuff is overwhelming! Sep 25 01:21:32 educatiom is good for you Sep 25 01:21:37 education Sep 25 01:21:46 you will know how internet works Sep 25 01:21:47 :) Sep 25 01:21:51 which kind do I want? Sep 25 01:22:12 any that can allow you to sniff what addresses your browser is using Sep 25 01:22:23 is there one for the 770? Sep 25 01:22:28 do it on pc Sep 25 01:22:36 to find out your radio stream link Sep 25 01:22:47 do you have a favorite one? Sep 25 01:22:52 junkbuster Sep 25 01:23:10 is it easy to use? Sep 25 01:23:21 for me? yes Sep 25 01:23:22 :) Sep 25 01:23:28 my pc is running Mint Daryna Sep 25 01:24:15 I would look for proxy servers? Sep 25 01:25:41 what's the radio link Sep 25 01:25:50 www.thekat.com Sep 25 01:34:44 well, I disabled a bunch of stuff and battery life seems to be back to normal, so it's not hardware-related Sep 25 01:35:11 now, it can be omweather, the statusbar cpu monitor, openntpd, or the fm applet Sep 25 01:38:56 I'm stumped Sep 25 01:39:02 yeah Sep 25 01:39:06 that site is stupid Sep 25 01:39:24 what site? Sep 25 01:39:33 Clear Channel made it really hard to use anything other than windows/IE Sep 25 01:39:41 the radio one he tries to tune in Sep 25 01:39:48 KotCzarny, you're stupid. Sep 25 01:39:50 gregorovius, a local internet radio station Sep 25 01:39:55 navi == troll Sep 25 01:40:04 yeah, I realize Sep 25 01:40:08 KotCzarny, that returns 0 Sep 25 01:40:21 a troll with logic! Sep 25 01:41:09 I haven't been able to listen to that station since they changed the "player" their network stream launches Sep 25 01:41:26 what's the url? Sep 25 01:41:33 www.thekat.com Sep 25 01:41:52 they should let people to choose the player, or at least provide link to the stream Sep 25 01:42:03 I agree! Sep 25 01:42:12 checking for some obscure firefox extension and removing everything from the page isn't nice Sep 25 01:42:22 but i guess they need to show ads Sep 25 01:42:43 Yeah, without the ads they can't pay for the streaming internet Sep 25 01:43:05 its not a very big station or a very big market Sep 25 01:43:19 I can't even try to listen to that radio, it's US-only Sep 25 01:43:23 and they apparently lost another listener Sep 25 01:43:29 :) Sep 25 01:43:53 not me - love that station! Somehow I will figure it out Sep 25 01:44:03 if you got 5 minutes, write them and tell em your experience Sep 25 01:44:03 well Sep 25 01:44:08 they need mplayer plugin Sep 25 01:44:11 and mplayer Sep 25 01:44:18 so you can probably do without flash Sep 25 01:44:48 Yeah, I tried to compile the little plug-in for mplayer and it just won't work for me. I've been waiting for mplayer to incorporate it in their next update Sep 25 01:44:50 assuming someone ported mozplayer or something Sep 25 01:45:36 Using windows is so ANNOYING! Sep 25 01:46:19 don't? Sep 25 01:46:40 eean, I do as much as I can on my Linux Mint machine Sep 25 01:48:19 I'v learned a lot tonight! Thanks for everyones' input Sep 25 01:48:52 my little 770 is a fun little entertainment! Sep 25 01:50:33 night all! Sep 25 01:54:16 are there any packages for the latest OS2008 out in the Internet somewhere? Sep 25 01:55:49 ~extras Sep 25 01:55:50 well, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Sep 25 01:57:30 it didn't have a wesnoth for the latest os2008 last I looked Sep 25 01:57:59 extras-devel than perhaps? Sep 25 01:58:21 thats not for devel packages? Sep 25 01:58:30 Badger the maintainer Sep 25 01:58:35 then grab it from Chinook Extras Sep 25 01:58:39 before I upgraded os2008 wesnoth was there Sep 25 01:58:49 heh Sep 25 01:58:53 http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/w/wesnoth/ Sep 25 01:59:45 what am I running/ Sep 25 01:59:49 diablo? Sep 25 01:59:51 anybody knows the speed/class of the 128mb card that comes with the n800? Sep 25 01:59:53 Yes Sep 25 02:00:03 gregorovius, probably not good. ;) Sep 25 02:00:06 ah, but I could get it from chinook fine probably Sep 25 02:00:38 I thought I'd put it in the internal slot to use as swap, and put my 8gb card on the 'external' slot, but it seems to be much slower creating the swap file Sep 25 02:01:09 I'd just pick up a decent 4GB card. Sep 25 02:01:22 or another 8GB card Sep 25 02:01:25 they're cheap these days. Sep 25 02:02:36 not down here, sadly Sep 25 02:03:07 U$S50 for a class 6 8gb Sep 25 02:03:33 and salaries ain't in U$S :) Sep 25 02:04:01 gregorovius: your the kde translator Sep 25 02:04:20 we see your inspiring name from CIA whenever you make a commit in #amarok Sep 25 02:04:23 unless I'm mistaken :) Sep 25 02:04:34 not at all Sep 25 02:05:00 I'm in #amarok, but I haven't translated a single word in my life Sep 25 02:05:11 ah, so I am Sep 25 02:05:14 :) Sep 25 02:05:24 too bad =P Sep 25 02:06:19 * eean installs wesnoth Sep 25 02:06:26 night all! Sep 25 02:10:06 * KotCzarny installs pancakes Sep 25 02:39:49 liqbase request: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=227164#post227164 Sep 25 02:40:43 :) Sep 25 02:40:52 is it the first release? Sep 25 02:41:17 i think here is a good place to draw a line :) Sep 25 02:41:43 im off to bed though, gnite Sep 25 02:41:46 nite nite Sep 25 02:47:47 :) Sep 25 02:47:49 :) Sep 25 02:47:51 :) Sep 25 02:48:49 bah how am I ever going to find the space to install wesnoth :D Sep 25 02:48:57 clone to sd Sep 25 02:49:13 ~boot-sd Sep 25 02:49:14 from memory, boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card Sep 25 02:49:18 ah Sep 25 02:49:24 GeneralAntilles, http://rafb.net/p/REDs4o86.html Sep 25 02:49:35 I tried just having a symlink to /media/mmc2 Sep 25 02:49:47 but its vfat and it didn't like its permissionlessness Sep 25 02:50:01 GeneralAntilles, look at teh link Sep 25 02:50:10 Navi, you be crazy. Sep 25 02:50:18 GeneralAntilles, I am totally not crazy. Sep 25 02:50:40 eean, you can link from ext*/jffs2 to vfat Sep 25 02:50:50 Anyone want to run percentages on ":)" usages? Sep 25 02:50:51 other way round not, but this way yes Sep 25 02:51:08 KotCzarny: yea I did, but wesnoth-data needs to change the permissions of a font directory or something Sep 25 02:51:12 and it aborts when it can't Sep 25 02:51:22 bug the author of the port :) Sep 25 02:51:40 and i think there were versions for data on mmc* Sep 25 02:53:47 well they aren't in the repo Sep 25 02:54:09 is there even a process to bug the author of a package or just cyberstalking? Sep 25 02:54:39 hmm Sep 25 02:54:40 Just email them. Sep 25 02:54:45 Maintainer if is in the package. Sep 25 02:54:48 you can try mounting vfat with quiet option Sep 25 02:55:12 mount -o remount,quiet /media/mmc2 Sep 25 02:55:14 (or 1) Sep 25 02:55:31 it shouldn't report errors about chmod/chown then Sep 25 02:55:37 hey cool :) Sep 25 02:55:39 that sounds easy Sep 25 02:55:40 kot, do you fancy grabbin a 75mb from my ftp and finding a host online for it - youtube is bein crap Sep 25 02:56:02 lcuk, temporary host ? Sep 25 02:56:15 or rapidshare etc? Sep 25 02:56:31 i dunno, i can barely work youtube :D Sep 25 02:56:43 http://rapidshare.com/ Sep 25 02:56:45 somewhere just to put it on the thread Sep 25 02:57:10 arghhh im already way late, ill leave it, gnite Sep 25 02:57:15 k Sep 25 02:57:19 it's on ftp? Sep 25 02:57:40 KotCzarny: I still get operation not permitted :/ Sep 25 02:58:00 eean, remounted proper partition? Sep 25 02:58:14 yep Sep 25 02:58:18 other options could be exec Sep 25 02:58:32 maybe it tries to put execs there too Sep 25 02:59:03 yes Sep 25 02:59:14 k, i'll see what i can do Sep 25 02:59:23 thx :) Sep 25 02:59:30 it sounds like quiet should work based on the mount man page Sep 25 02:59:31 i'll post the link on itt too Sep 25 02:59:34 trying now with exec **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 25 02:59:57 2008