**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 25 02:59:57 2008 Sep 25 03:00:04 guess it won't work, the specific error is "error setting ownership" Sep 25 03:00:05 unless it's trying to make symlinks/hardlinks Sep 25 03:00:14 hum Sep 25 03:00:20 hah Sep 25 03:00:25 now it says no space left on device... Sep 25 03:00:30 :> Sep 25 03:00:31 thats good I guess :) Sep 25 03:00:44 can you replace the internal flash card? Sep 25 03:00:50 in n800? Sep 25 03:00:51 yes Sep 25 03:00:57 in n810 it's soldered Sep 25 03:00:58 n810, yea. good. Sep 25 03:01:00 ah damn Sep 25 03:01:01 :/ Sep 25 03:01:29 was planning on buying two 8gb flash cards Sep 25 03:01:33 that's what you get for getting n810 instead of n800! Sep 25 03:01:34 :) Sep 25 03:02:52 sheesh there's 441 megs available on /media/mmc2 Sep 25 03:03:01 seems like that'd be enough Sep 25 03:03:08 :) Sep 25 03:04:34 ok that error was a fluke Sep 25 03:04:41 back to the ownership issue thing Sep 25 03:05:14 another trick would be creating big file, ext2/3 on it and mounting via loop Sep 25 03:05:15 :) Sep 25 03:05:31 well I could just format it as ext3 if I want to go through that trouble Sep 25 03:05:48 or simply reformat/repartition internal sd in your n810 Sep 25 03:06:03 I don't need vfat for anything do I? Sep 25 03:06:15 I understand vfat is more efficient for small parititions though Sep 25 03:06:23 is it? Sep 25 03:06:25 :) Sep 25 03:06:28 it'd make sense Sep 25 03:06:37 it's simple Sep 25 03:06:40 vfat is old and not error tolerant :) Sep 25 03:06:41 and stupid a little Sep 25 03:06:45 the only reason for it is that you can use the device as usb mass storage Sep 25 03:06:55 I use linux mostly though Sep 25 03:07:00 kegetys: with windows Sep 25 03:07:04 you wanted to add Sep 25 03:07:05 :) Sep 25 03:07:10 KotCzarny: and various other devices that only support fat Sep 25 03:07:15 yes Sep 25 03:07:28 well this is my completely-not-removable-since-its-a-810 flash :) Sep 25 03:08:03 it is usable as mass storage with the usb cable that comes with the device Sep 25 03:08:07 anyone had internal sd failed in n810? Sep 25 03:08:32 Kegetys: it'd still be usable with an ext3 though right? Sep 25 03:08:58 eean: I guess it should, assuming what you'd use it with supports ext3 Sep 25 03:09:18 eean, it's the same situation as formatting usb stick with ext2/3 Sep 25 03:09:37 also Sep 25 03:09:40 right Sep 25 03:09:50 there is ifs driver for ext2/3 for windows Sep 25 03:09:59 which pretty much works as expected Sep 25 03:10:44 hmm Sep 25 03:10:50 that wesnoth looks interesting Sep 25 03:10:52 :) Sep 25 03:14:30 yea wesnoth is awesome Sep 25 03:19:38 It's _really_ slow, though. Sep 25 03:20:56 A lot better with swap on. Sep 25 03:22:12 I can't even run it with swap off. Sep 25 03:29:03 going from the desktop wesnoth to on the tablet is really painful Sep 25 03:29:15 it's slow; that's all there is to it. Sep 25 03:31:39 It's sweeping the country with spinner rims! Is it coming towards you? Darius Goes West. Know about it. Sep 25 03:31:41 O.o Sep 25 03:31:48 i wonder if it's the same Darius Sep 25 03:31:50 o.O Sep 25 04:18:27 Hello Sep 25 04:18:53 hi Sep 25 04:19:31 Forgive me if I am barging in, using a web based this particular web based IRC chat client for the first time Sep 25 04:19:39 and not sure if its showing me everything... Sep 25 04:19:51 Is there an existing maemo chat going on right now? Sep 25 04:20:11 nothing formal Sep 25 04:20:34 we just kind of sit here and talk back and forth, usually about maemo, sometimes about other stuff Sep 25 04:20:44 it's pretty quiet right now though Sep 25 04:20:47 have a question? Sep 25 04:21:13 cool, yes I do Sep 25 04:21:16 :) Sep 25 04:21:18 well, I'm talking to myself about Maemo, but that doesn't really count as far as IRC goes Sep 25 04:21:31 I'm running Diablo on a n810 and seem to have lost access to /dev/camera0 Sep 25 04:21:34 and all camera functionality Sep 25 04:21:38 i think webchat should include some dislaimer Sep 25 04:21:47 Camera 3.5, gps camera and aMSN Sep 25 04:22:02 *disclaimer Sep 25 04:22:09 any thoughts? Sep 25 04:22:17 jeff2: check dmesg? Sep 25 04:22:18 jeff2: It's busted. Sep 25 04:22:21 ;) Sep 25 04:22:21 any error messages? Sep 25 04:22:31 jeff2, hmm...I've heard of that problem. There's a thread on ITT (internettablettalk.com/forums) but I don't know if there was a resolution Sep 25 04:22:32 <- helper Sep 25 04:22:35 nope, checked in /var/log Sep 25 04:22:44 i think /var/log is not used Sep 25 04:22:48 to save space etc Sep 25 04:22:51 nothing there, didn't see anything else shouting put at me, but have'nt tracked down any other logs yet Sep 25 04:22:59 did a grep on "camera" from / Sep 25 04:23:06 you may try using mencoder or vlc Sep 25 04:23:12 to test camera functionality Sep 25 04:23:17 but nothing showed up after 5-10 minutes before I killed it (I was looking for other logs) Sep 25 04:23:25 are you proficient with shell ? Sep 25 04:23:26 mencoder can pull from the camera? Sep 25 04:23:27 yes Sep 25 04:23:28 Awesome. Sep 25 04:23:42 sneakret: wanna cmdline i use? Sep 25 04:23:50 Yes! Sep 25 04:24:20 I bet jeff2 does too. ;) Sep 25 04:24:25 just a moment Sep 25 04:24:29 :-) Sep 25 04:24:29 i have to find the script Sep 25 04:24:48 no resolution on the iit forum yet Sep 25 04:25:18 mrrau.dyndns.org:24080/n800/cam.go Sep 25 04:25:51 quick and dirty but worked for me around spring Sep 25 04:26:27 if default mencoder isn't compiled with tv:// you may get my build Sep 25 04:26:32 from binaries Sep 25 04:26:35 on the same site Sep 25 04:26:57 or just compile mplayer/mencoder yourself enabling it Sep 25 04:28:39 jeff2: can it be some hung app blocking /dev/video0 ? Sep 25 04:29:05 /dev/video0 was missing Sep 25 04:29:20 something removed it? Sep 25 04:29:23 i remade it using an simular ubuntu command Sep 25 04:29:31 :) Sep 25 04:29:37 but that was a bit of cut and paste/pray magic Sep 25 04:29:49 yeah, device nodes are the same Sep 25 04:30:00 because it's quite standard linux distro Sep 25 04:30:05 (maemo) Sep 25 04:30:06 v4l Sep 25 04:30:10 v4l2 Sep 25 04:30:12 to be exact Sep 25 04:30:14 i assumed Sep 25 04:30:17 ok Sep 25 04:30:20 you may recompile kernel Sep 25 04:30:26 to enable v4l1 compaibility Sep 25 04:30:28 :) Sep 25 04:30:37 *compatibility Sep 25 04:31:06 although last time i tried only mencoder/mplayer was able to use it Sep 25 04:31:11 from stock linux apps Sep 25 04:31:49 so, interesting thought: I'm on an n800 and I still have my /dev/video0 device Sep 25 04:31:57 jeff2, did it ever work for you under diablo? Sep 25 04:32:09 not 100% sure Sep 25 04:32:13 i think so though Sep 25 04:32:23 I might end up reflashing Sep 25 04:32:28 :) Sep 25 04:32:32 well Sep 25 04:32:35 try to find the cause Sep 25 04:32:38 if it's nothing that people have an easy answer to Sep 25 04:32:41 yeah Sep 25 04:32:50 jeff2, people on itt tried reflashing it seems Sep 25 04:32:55 there was the comment on itt forums 2 other folks with seem problem Sep 25 04:32:59 i added to it last night Sep 25 04:33:03 no answers for them Sep 25 04:33:22 maybe device node got renamed? Sep 25 04:33:29 ls -l /dev/vid* ? Sep 25 04:33:32 i did install in red pill mode amsn Sep 25 04:33:34 KotCzarny, nope. works for some people Sep 25 04:33:40 KotCzarny, and the apps all look for /dev/video0 Sep 25 04:33:52 but that was the only weird thing I've done on the tablet since reflashing diablo Sep 25 04:34:04 everything else was stock / from standard repos Sep 25 04:34:17 standard repos can do stupid things too Sep 25 04:34:21 :) Sep 25 04:34:24 :-) Sep 25 04:34:27 jeff2, dmesg | grep omap24xxcam Sep 25 04:34:29 if some dev package slips in Sep 25 04:35:02 jeff2, are you using the official diablo kernel? Sep 25 04:35:15 yes Sep 25 04:35:42 no omap in dmesg output Sep 25 04:36:23 Whoa. I don't have mencoder installed. That's surprising. Sep 25 04:37:24 yeah Sep 25 04:37:31 because it's not compiled by default Sep 25 04:37:32 :) Sep 25 04:38:00 i did my own compile from the ssvb's sources Sep 25 04:38:15 fixing camera.c in one or two places Sep 25 04:38:18 trivial fix Sep 25 04:38:43 For what it's worth, my n810's camera works in Diablo. Sep 25 04:39:11 thanks (I'm assume it does for most folks) Sep 25 04:39:13 For some reason I expected mencoder to be included with mplayer. Silly me. Sep 25 04:39:15 I think mine broke Sep 25 04:39:37 My GPS still can't get a fix though. Sep 25 04:39:40 :( Sep 25 04:39:43 ha Sep 25 04:40:02 So far the GPS has been completely useless for me. Sep 25 04:40:18 sneakret: tried from the roof? Sep 25 04:40:21 :) Sep 25 04:40:22 Haha. Sep 25 04:40:26 seriously Sep 25 04:40:34 at least you will know it's not doa Sep 25 04:40:35 :) Sep 25 04:40:40 i can get it outside, but not inside for the most part, tried on a bus last weekend Sep 25 04:40:48 first time no lock for 2 hours Sep 25 04:40:53 Oh. Well, I've managed to get it to work a couple times. Sep 25 04:41:00 2nd time, lock in 10 minutes, even with agps primed Sep 25 04:41:08 but yeah... it takes ages. Sep 25 04:41:36 Maybe you selected wrong location in agps? Sep 25 04:41:43 Hmm... Sep 25 04:41:56 I usually just try from the control panel. Sep 25 04:42:32 okay, we thanks everyone, I think its time to reflash Sep 25 04:42:45 jeff2, update the thread if that fixes it :) Sep 25 04:42:48 I appreaciae your help. Sep 25 04:42:49 will do Sep 25 04:42:50 jeff2: Good luck! Sep 25 04:42:51 and come back here if it doesn't :) Sep 25 04:43:02 thanks, I'll be back, good speaking with you all Sep 25 04:43:10 'later Sep 25 04:53:04 RST38h: Installed agps-ui. That helped immensely. Thanks. Sep 25 04:55:42 KotCzarny: so... yeah, I'm interested in your mencoder binary. Sep 25 04:55:55 as i said, it's in binaries/ subdir Sep 25 04:56:26 Oh, I missed that. Thanks! Sep 25 04:56:34 :) Sep 25 04:56:45 also, that mplayer there has also tv:// enabled Sep 25 04:56:51 easier for testing camera Sep 25 04:56:57 or just making n8x0 a mirror Sep 25 04:56:59 ;) Sep 25 05:00:21 Cool. :) Sep 25 05:07:55 hello Sep 25 05:08:39 hi Sep 25 05:09:21 I'm stuck trying to install osso xerm on 770 running hackeros2007 Sep 25 05:10:37 I keep getting operation failed Sep 25 05:12:14 anyone got any idea why? Sep 25 05:14:39 Maybe Ijust need to give it a rest tonight. Sep 25 05:22:13 Is there an easy way to make MicroB open URLs in a new window when using bookmarks or mis? (And has anyone made an "Open URL" mis tool?) Sep 25 05:22:35 middle click? Sep 25 05:22:39 (just kidding) Sep 25 05:22:56 :) Sep 25 05:23:21 don't know, shift-click ? Sep 25 05:23:58 I want that as the default behavior. Sep 25 05:24:36 about:config Sep 25 05:24:37 It sucks when I have a web page open and opening a bookmark or performing a search browses away from it. Sep 25 05:24:51 I looked through about:config and didn't see anything promising. Sep 25 05:24:58 hum Sep 25 05:25:00 (also, it seemed to be read-only) Sep 25 05:25:15 No way to do it as of right now Sep 25 05:25:57 well, there is source of microb? Sep 25 05:26:02 part of the reasoning is that having more than a few browser windows open at a time is a real RAM killer with only 128MB to work with. Sep 25 05:26:16 Yeah. Swap helps... Sep 25 05:27:01 If you swap too much, you end up in basically the same non-responsive state as oom. Sep 25 05:27:03 Does WebKit look promising? Sep 25 05:27:19 GAN800: True, but if you have idle browsers, they swap out nicely. Sep 25 05:27:21 Not anytime soon Sep 25 05:27:29 What about opening a URL from mis? :) Sep 25 05:27:39 MicroB's still on the old Gecko alpha Sep 25 05:28:07 So it'll improve a _lot_ in resource usage as its brought up to speed with trunk. Sep 25 05:28:17 Nice. Sep 25 05:29:17 Though it may be a while before the most recent round of js improvemens make it to ARM. Sep 25 05:29:31 tracemonkey is running on ARM now Sep 25 05:29:41 we're seeing a bit ovre a 2x speedup Sep 25 05:29:52 Nice. Sep 25 05:30:02 Oh? That's good to know. Sep 25 05:30:05 but tons of work is going on now that should make that way faster Sep 25 05:30:10 That should make gmail usable. Sep 25 05:30:11 i think main speedup would come from reducing memory usage Sep 25 05:30:12 :> Sep 25 05:30:13 Now we just need it in MicroB. Sep 25 05:30:20 (in standard mode) Sep 25 05:30:58 memory usage is a lot better in firefox 3 than in the build they used Sep 25 05:31:02 Hmm.. canola2 and libbz2-1.0 are failing to update. :( Sep 25 05:31:05 and even better now Sep 25 05:31:48 sneakret, not all of Canola's dependencies have been uploaded yet. Sep 25 05:32:03 GAN800: Ah... okay. Sep 25 05:32:07 Thanks. Sep 25 05:32:36 It's what you get for using Extras-devel. ;) Sep 25 05:33:12 Attempting to update libbz results in "Application packages missing: libbz2-1.0 (= 1.0.3-1) Sep 25 05:33:15 " Sep 25 05:33:32 FBReader? Sep 25 05:33:44 GAN800: http://blog.vlad1.com/2008/09/11/tracemonkey-coming-to-a-pocket-near-you/ Sep 25 05:34:18 Yeah, I have FBReader installed. Sep 25 05:37:15 sneakret, try deleting its repo? Sep 25 05:39:07 Hi ! Sep 25 05:39:47 does someone with chaintool can compile for me the opensync framework ? Sep 25 05:40:05 and his python binding ? Sep 25 05:50:43 GAN800: Thanks. Sep 25 05:52:32 You know stuff. Sep 25 05:52:59 he knows too much stuff Sep 25 05:53:14 :) Sep 25 05:53:51 MarshallAntilles: why made the meeting on saturday ? Sep 25 06:02:15 morning all Sep 25 06:02:50 hm, odd, if i try to update libxml2, it wants to remove osso-software-version-rx44 Sep 25 06:04:11 aquatix, strict depends Sep 25 06:04:34 find o-s-v-rx44-unlocked Sep 25 06:04:36 yeah, noticed Sep 25 06:05:05 Khertan_n810, I was sleepinp. ;) Sep 25 06:05:12 :) Sep 25 06:06:57 so good morning Sep 25 06:07:36 hm, now libxml2 wanted to install, but on dist-upgrade apt says `osso-af-startup: depends osso-af-utils (>=1.16-1) not going to be installed); osso-core-config not going to be installed' Sep 25 06:07:45 morning Khertan_n810, GAN800 :) Sep 25 06:08:15 Sounds bad Sep 25 06:08:51 does it? Sep 25 06:09:01 * aquatix has no idea what exactly those packages are Sep 25 06:17:25 i like my nokia. i use it to chat on irc while i poop Sep 25 06:17:54 thank you for sharing that information ;) Sep 25 06:18:16 pfft at newspapers!!! this is the new mellinium Sep 25 06:18:16 * KotCzarny does that too Sep 25 06:18:24 + i play games while there Sep 25 06:18:30 good stuff Sep 25 06:18:50 * aquatix generally browses news, reads mail or a book Sep 25 06:18:53 * Proteous reminds himself to never handle fiekia's or KotCzarny's nokia Sep 25 06:19:05 :) Sep 25 06:19:22 good! Sep 25 06:19:25 :) Sep 25 06:19:30 :P Sep 25 06:19:45 i shall put that info on the case Sep 25 06:20:05 it will keep it safe from 'borrowers' :> Sep 25 06:20:13 going to set my wallpaper to "i poop with this" Sep 25 06:20:37 i used to use some chinese tetris game Sep 25 06:20:40 lol Sep 25 06:20:47 but once i tried nokia while pooping Sep 25 06:20:47 wtf, i already have osso-af-utils 1.17-1 Sep 25 06:20:51 i won't go back Sep 25 06:20:54 :) Sep 25 06:21:18 gan800: got a blog? Sep 25 06:21:37 hm, with tetris i would sit there for hours Sep 25 06:21:51 yup Sep 25 06:21:59 sneakret, http://maemo.org/community/council ;) Sep 25 06:22:06 especially that i'm very good at it Sep 25 06:22:08 (tetris) Sep 25 06:22:09 aquatix, i had tetris on my old phone Sep 25 06:22:10 KotCzarny: install tetris on your NIT Sep 25 06:22:15 nah Sep 25 06:22:16 it was awesome Sep 25 06:22:17 cool Sep 25 06:22:20 controls are flunky Sep 25 06:22:24 for high speed game Sep 25 06:22:25 hm, true Sep 25 06:22:37 but my n-gage plays it just right Sep 25 06:22:39 (s-tris) Sep 25 06:22:40 make a usb controller Sep 25 06:22:47 nit??? Sep 25 06:22:53 nokia internet tablet Sep 25 06:22:55 :) Sep 25 06:22:59 get used to it Sep 25 06:23:13 ever played touchtris? (it's called something else now, for trademark reasons) Sep 25 06:23:23 nah Sep 25 06:23:24 sounds perverted Sep 25 06:23:27 i'm hard player Sep 25 06:23:36 i'm afraid i would ruin the screen Sep 25 06:23:40 that's a great touchscreen Tetris Sep 25 06:24:44 no NIT version though Sep 25 06:25:36 you rotate the pieces by dragging and relying on their inertia Sep 25 06:25:53 i know Sep 25 06:25:57 cool Sep 25 06:26:04 looks great Sep 25 06:26:06 like pinch one part and wait it to rotate around that? Sep 25 06:26:09 but is it precise? Sep 25 06:26:17 jaska: kind of Sep 25 06:26:25 just imagine dragging real blocks Sep 25 06:26:30 on the ice Sep 25 06:26:32 ah, touchbricks it's called now Sep 25 06:26:45 yeah, that's it. Sep 25 06:27:03 * aquatix had blueblocks on his palm Sep 25 06:27:13 could play against an other palm over bluetooth Sep 25 06:27:17 not sure what you mean by precise Sep 25 06:27:19 i think i should convince lcuk to implement gravitris Sep 25 06:27:30 he is good at stuff Sep 25 06:28:10 sneakret: i mean doing 2-5 blocks in a second Sep 25 06:28:21 correctly Sep 25 06:28:28 it provides pixel-level positioning, then rounds the positions.. Sep 25 06:28:34 while wearing a tinfoil hat Sep 25 06:28:43 5 a sec is tough Sep 25 06:28:43 in a lightning storm Sep 25 06:28:44 tinfoil gloves Sep 25 06:28:46 for you Sep 25 06:28:48 :) Sep 25 06:28:58 while pooping Sep 25 06:29:00 while catching gps signal Sep 25 06:29:01 smoke-generating ones Sep 25 06:29:04 on KotCzarny's toilet Sep 25 06:29:13 definitely not as precise as keyboard Sep 25 06:29:25 sneakret: yeah. then it's just a toy Sep 25 06:29:26 :) Sep 25 06:29:27 generating electricity from the bezerk button mashing Sep 25 06:29:45 * Proteous cries for a decent d-pad on his n810 Sep 25 06:29:58 * Proteous also cries for a decent video chip Sep 25 06:29:59 btw. anyone interested in playing multiplayer tetris on nokias/xwindows ? Sep 25 06:30:11 only if you let me win Sep 25 06:30:18 once is enough? Sep 25 06:30:18 KotCzarny: I assume you've played netris Sep 25 06:30:26 sneakret: nope, xtris Sep 25 06:30:34 I like pooptris Sep 25 06:30:44 pooptris is better played alone Sep 25 06:30:45 ;) Sep 25 06:30:49 stinktris Sep 25 06:30:57 there, now only canola2 beta10 doesn't want to install yet Sep 25 06:31:05 does xtris give all players the same blocks? Sep 25 06:31:05 2 nokias 1 cup Sep 25 06:31:08 O.o Sep 25 06:31:10 ewww Sep 25 06:31:14 * aquatix leaves :) Sep 25 06:31:17 heh Sep 25 06:31:18 chicken Sep 25 06:31:20 That's something I like about netris Sep 25 06:31:24 take it like a man! Sep 25 06:31:24 nah, time for breakfast Sep 25 06:31:30 weird moment though Sep 25 06:31:32 hello all Sep 25 06:31:34 sneakret i think yes Sep 25 06:31:43 but it was long time ago Sep 25 06:31:43 Cool. Sep 25 06:31:45 tetrinet client would be interesting Sep 25 06:31:48 (during my uni) Sep 25 06:31:51 howdy jaem Sep 25 06:32:09 unicycletris Sep 25 06:32:26 I just picked up an N810 last week, and I had a quesion about how Maemo handles the filesystem... Sep 25 06:32:30 brokeback mountris Sep 25 06:32:32 tetrinet doesn't give everyone the same pieces Sep 25 06:32:42 hm Sep 25 06:32:44 jaem, very carefully Sep 25 06:32:47 jaem: jffs2 + vfat Sep 25 06:32:52 + optional ext2/3 Sep 25 06:32:54 it's fun, but not quite as fair Sep 25 06:33:04 specifically, I'd like to mount my internal card as /usr - I know how to do this, but I'm wondering what level of borkage could ensue Sep 25 06:33:06 some people created other fs's modules Sep 25 06:33:11 jaem: don't Sep 25 06:33:14 ah Sep 25 06:33:16 better clone to sd Sep 25 06:33:16 I wondered Sep 25 06:33:17 whole sys Sep 25 06:33:20 :) Sep 25 06:33:21 I've tried Sep 25 06:33:23 okay - I'll read up on that Sep 25 06:33:38 i think it's called 'boot from sd' Sep 25 06:33:40 nowadays Sep 25 06:33:40 mounting /usr Sep 25 06:33:53 yeah, I saw that, but I haven't looked into it yet Sep 25 06:33:58 mountris Sep 25 06:34:03 haha Sep 25 06:34:16 sneakret: i like sending random blocks to others when completing lines in xtris Sep 25 06:34:19 i'm fast Sep 25 06:34:23 so they feel the pain Sep 25 06:34:25 ;) Sep 25 06:34:35 and then order of blocks doesn't matter Sep 25 06:34:36 ;) Sep 25 06:34:48 also... I have Gmail set up for IMAP with the built-in e-mail client, configured to download the last 200 messages only... Sep 25 06:35:02 I like recompliling the binary I give to my opponent and slightly changing it so they never get long blocks Sep 25 06:35:04 but it downloads messages scattered over my whole history of using Gmail Sep 25 06:35:12 yeah Sep 25 06:35:20 I haven't had much fun with IMAP either Sep 25 06:35:22 e.g. some from every year since '04, rather than the /last/ 200 Sep 25 06:35:38 that *might* be a gmail issue Sep 25 06:35:43 I'd use a different e-mail client, but I like the integration of the built-in one Sep 25 06:35:45 oh? Sep 25 06:36:02 or do other people have that with regular imap accounts too? Sep 25 06:36:17 * aquatix should try it himself Sep 25 06:36:25 how have you configured it to dl the last 200 only? Sep 25 06:36:25 netris puts clutter on bottom of the opponent's field when you clear rows. Clearing 1 row does nothing. Clearing 2 sends 1 row. Clearing 3 sends 2. Clearing 4 sends 4. All rows sent at once have a vertical empty slot. Sep 25 06:36:44 super puzzle fighter turbo 2 FTW Sep 25 06:36:45 so you can get into a mode where you're swapping 4 rows repeatedly Sep 25 06:36:50 hi, can I install liblocation (location framework) on my desktop ? Sep 25 06:36:50 mavhc: it was in the config dialog - I can check where exactly, if you want Sep 25 06:37:19 xtris just drops the horizontal line of 1x1 blocks Sep 25 06:37:29 more if you completed more lines Sep 25 06:37:32 * jaem curses lack of wifi in his room Sep 25 06:37:45 jaem: retrieval limit in Account settings right? Sep 25 06:37:50 I believe so Sep 25 06:38:07 seems to work correctly with my dovecot setup Sep 25 06:38:57 ah, never saw that, I ended up archiving lots of my gmail inbox instead Sep 25 06:39:17 well, unfortunately, I can't check right now - I somehow managed to kill my wireless router, and now I havet o go wheedle the lab tech at my uni into letting me borrow a good jtag cable :P Sep 25 06:39:19 except that it still loads all mail from a subfolder Sep 25 06:39:21 oh well Sep 25 06:40:38 I know this has been beaten to death already (many times), but what exactly /is/ the status of the GPS time-to-initial-fix in Diablo on the N810? I've read everything I can find, and haven't found anything conclusive... meanwhile, it still is darn slow Sep 25 06:40:59 * jaem apologizes for asking /that/ question Sep 25 06:41:30 status is 40 seconds with agps Sep 25 06:41:40 ah Sep 25 06:41:45 and that requires wifi, right? Sep 25 06:41:55 (and thanks for your precision) Sep 25 06:42:03 requires at least gprs initially Sep 25 06:42:11 right Sep 25 06:42:40 seems to work fine without uplink afterwards Sep 25 06:43:01 and without net access of some sort, what am I looking at? I have a friend that needs to borrow it this week, so she can add something about GPS to her resume Sep 25 06:43:59 a few minutes i guess, depening on the amount of satellites visible Sep 25 06:44:08 kk Sep 25 06:44:33 I appreciate the help - reading through endless forums/mailing lists is quite tedious, and often still inconclusive Sep 25 06:46:32 I have 11 satellites visible. Without installing the agps beta, GPS was badly broken. Sep 25 06:46:46 Now it seems pretty speedy. Sep 25 06:46:59 quicker than 40 seconds Sep 25 06:46:59 jaem: it s _slow_. Sep 25 06:47:07 3-5 minutes without agps Sep 25 06:47:08 * jaem noticed Sep 25 06:47:15 i never manage to make any sense on how agps was suppose to be better. Sep 25 06:47:20 although your mileage may wary Sep 25 06:47:26 but maye, this is because my tablet is not paired to any phone :) Sep 25 06:47:35 I ran agps, checked a couple boxes, and now GPS works great. Sep 25 06:47:40 nice Sep 25 06:47:51 (This was just tonight.) Sep 25 06:48:16 3-5 minutes without agps is when i m lucky. Sep 25 06:48:17 melmoth: you do not need a phone, plain wifi will do Sep 25 06:48:27 I'll head out of my dorm in a bit and check it out Sep 25 06:49:23 RST38h: i suppose it compare the wifi point or cell phone point against a database to try to guess where it should be located ? Sep 25 06:49:31 do you know if Paris is thus mapped ? Sep 25 06:49:41 Because this could explain why it "does not work" for me Sep 25 06:50:16 melmoth: no. Sep 25 06:51:11 melmoth: you manually set agps location on a map, it goes onto internet and downloads gps metadata off some web server. that is all. Sep 25 06:51:30 been there, done that. Sep 25 06:51:55 what sort of metadata? Sep 25 06:51:57 sure you have correctly pinpointed paris on the map? Sep 25 06:52:10 jaem: ephemerides + almanac Sep 25 06:52:14 well,the map cannot be zoomed, so i clicked on france. Sep 25 06:52:28 jaem: google for gps wiki for details Sep 25 06:52:28 * jaem goes off to read wikipedia Sep 25 06:53:00 melmoth: i know, it sucks this way...but it does show lat lon for where you click Sep 25 06:53:23 at least finding moscow on it is pretty easy :) Sep 25 06:55:01 I'll go try it out, and let you all know how it goes Sep 25 06:55:09 * jaem will be back in a bit Sep 25 06:55:15 just to be on the safe side, i re used agps while the wifi is on.. Will see what happen next time i g outside Sep 25 06:55:30 spare us - you are not even in the second dozen Sep 25 06:57:40 I hear the 4th dozen is where it's at Sep 25 06:57:51 it's hoppin in here Sep 25 07:01:10 damn, sdhc prices going down every week, when to buy, when to buy?!? i see 16gb sdhc class6 for $35cad yummy Sep 25 07:01:18 :> Sep 25 07:01:25 buy when you need it Sep 25 07:01:29 that's the rule Sep 25 07:01:43 i'm waiting for 32gbs Sep 25 07:01:48 to be ~50$ Sep 25 07:01:52 * aquatix wants a 32GB microsd Sep 25 07:02:06 ive seen 32gb but at over $200 Sep 25 07:02:10 yup Sep 25 07:02:23 i have 12gb of sd and 12gb of cf storage Sep 25 07:02:38 so i'm good for some time Sep 25 07:03:32 which IT has a CF slot? Sep 25 07:03:46 the zaurus Sep 25 07:03:50 every laptop with ide port Sep 25 07:03:55 :P Sep 25 07:03:59 :> Sep 25 07:04:06 * KotCzarny has a double ide-cf adapter Sep 25 07:04:22 * Proteous has a triple ide-cf adapter Sep 25 07:04:37 * Proteous connected it to his flux capacitor Sep 25 07:04:38 * aquatix has a usb card reader Sep 25 07:04:42 * Proteous travels through time Sep 25 07:04:56 ah great, can you look up some stocks for me? Sep 25 07:05:09 get your own time machine! Sep 25 07:05:15 i will, after Sep 25 07:05:26 gotta make some cash first ;) Sep 25 07:05:38 heh Sep 25 07:06:20 soon every computer will be flash based, hdd only for NAS Sep 25 07:07:37 I just want an all NVRAM computer please Sep 25 07:07:45 bad idea Sep 25 07:07:52 my storage will be in the cloud Sep 25 07:08:04 yes, once you change the battery Sep 25 07:08:07 it will be Sep 25 07:08:28 the mushroom cloud? Sep 25 07:08:33 the nv stands for non volitile Sep 25 07:08:34 KotCzarny: my fission reactor will act as ups Sep 25 07:08:39 means it doesn't need power Sep 25 07:08:42 to keep state Sep 25 07:08:46 :) Sep 25 07:08:48 relatively easy to do Sep 25 07:08:52 yay! net-split! Sep 25 07:09:02 stupid IRC tricks Sep 25 07:09:04 \o/ Sep 25 07:09:08 no, they are gone to the mushroom cloud Sep 25 07:09:10 |o| Sep 25 07:09:13 freenode++ Sep 25 07:09:15 /o/ Sep 25 07:09:20 \o\ Sep 25 07:09:21 proteous: nonvolatile (* as long your battery is good) Sep 25 07:09:36 someone needs to invent a computer you can rewind Sep 25 07:09:37 fine print my dear, fine print Sep 25 07:09:38 nv means no battery though Sep 25 07:09:45 mavhc: ibm did that Sep 25 07:09:46 when a WiFi router works with all devices but my N800 and my N800 works with all WiFi networks but that router, what may be happening? Sep 25 07:09:48 KotCzarny: no, nv mean nv Sep 25 07:09:54 nv means nvidia Sep 25 07:10:01 (everything points to the N800 to be gone awry) Sep 25 07:10:05 mavhc: ctrl+z or u (in vim)? Sep 25 07:10:10 doesn't nvidia mean nvidia? Sep 25 07:10:18 gomiam: typo? failed dhcp ? Sep 25 07:10:19 aquatix: yes, but for the entire system Sep 25 07:10:25 gomiam: tried static ip? Sep 25 07:10:31 no no, the snozeberries taste like snozeberries Sep 25 07:10:54 KotCzarny: I'll give it a go, but it's annoying since the router serves DHCP for everything else. Sep 25 07:10:56 snoozeberries? Sep 25 07:11:06 gomiam: i think dhcp is the main offender Sep 25 07:11:11 only n00bs add extra "O"s Sep 25 07:11:15 when connecting to routers Sep 25 07:11:18 NOOOOOBBBSSS Sep 25 07:11:30 Proteous: pft, n00b Sep 25 07:11:38 he has 2 o in his nick Sep 25 07:11:40 and a P Sep 25 07:11:47 but none are extra Sep 25 07:11:47 which goes after o Sep 25 07:11:59 I need both of them dearly Sep 25 07:12:05 for what? Sep 25 07:12:19 to keep your poop covered nokia away Sep 25 07:12:23 duh Sep 25 07:12:32 i flush it, dummy Sep 25 07:12:39 covering is old method Sep 25 07:12:43 ancient i say Sep 25 07:12:54 * Proteous doesn't want to know the details Sep 25 07:13:05 * aquatix pictures KotCzarny holding his nokia inside the toilet while flushing Sep 25 07:13:10 lol Sep 25 07:13:13 :) Sep 25 07:13:20 Oh, I think I saw something. The WiFi network is a WPA-PSK but tcpdump tells me the N800 is sending EAP packets Sep 25 07:13:23 not a pretty image Sep 25 07:13:28 you know, they say toilet is cleaner than door knobs Sep 25 07:13:33 gomiam: ah :) Sep 25 07:13:34 (often) Sep 25 07:13:41 KotCzarny: and public keyboards Sep 25 07:13:42 luckly I don't eat off of door knobs or toilets Sep 25 07:14:02 pt: what about public knobs? Sep 25 07:14:03 you people are crazy Sep 25 07:14:24 fortunately, I finally bought a Bt keyboard. Sep 25 07:14:24 nope Sep 25 07:14:29 i'm just eccentric Sep 25 07:14:34 it's just past 9AM and this is our subject... Sep 25 07:14:35 IE crazy Sep 25 07:14:41 3am here Sep 25 07:14:41 :) Sep 25 07:14:45 12:12am here Sep 25 07:14:49 * aquatix should be coding Sep 25 07:14:53 3:14 am Sep 25 07:14:55 09:14 here Sep 25 07:14:55 to be exact Sep 25 07:14:56 Does Maemo Chinook supports Ondevice Debugging. Sep 25 07:14:56 XD Sep 25 07:14:57 meeting about it in a few hours Sep 25 07:14:59 pitime Sep 25 07:15:02 KotCzarny: ooh :) Sep 25 07:15:03 peetime ? Sep 25 07:15:14 brb Sep 25 07:15:18 gomiam: yeah, 9:14 here too Sep 25 07:15:18 TMI Sep 25 07:16:44 ok, please excuse my ignorance: is there a reason for EAP packets to be sent when establishing a WPA-PSK WiFi session? Sep 25 07:17:06 I don't think this is a good channel to be asking that question too Sep 25 07:17:12 while I was gone: Sep 25 07:17:12 mavhc: "someone needs to invent a computer you can rewind" Sep 25 07:17:12 me: they did... I have one sitting on my desk, and takes 20s to load a BASIC "Hello World" program Sep 25 07:17:15 try /#wifi Sep 25 07:17:17 Proteous: probably not :-) Sep 25 07:17:42 tape drives aren't as cool as they sound... Sep 25 07:17:51 :P Sep 25 07:17:55 they are when they use audio tape Sep 25 07:17:57 X_X Sep 25 07:18:04 what about tape worms? Sep 25 07:18:04 and when you record your program off the radio Sep 25 07:18:15 oh dear, #wifi is empty. Well, I guess I'll have to keep Googling XD Sep 25 07:18:25 KotCzarny just got back from the bathroom and he is talking about tapeworms Sep 25 07:18:26 ... Sep 25 07:18:28 I think the speed of tape would put a bit of a damper on the worms Sep 25 07:18:33 gomiam: #wlan ? #wireless ? #wpa ? Sep 25 07:18:46 or at least, the speed at which they could propogate [sic[ Sep 25 07:18:55 I was just joking about the #wifi Sep 25 07:19:02 thanks KotCzarny Sep 25 07:19:13 I assume there is some channel of that type, but I don't know what the name is Sep 25 07:19:13 gomiam: but i guess google is better Sep 25 07:19:27 gomiam: it is connecting to the right connection? with no connection saved for it? Sep 25 07:19:43 a google search for "EAP WPA-PSK" would probably do the trick Sep 25 07:20:07 aquatix: I have tried it both ways, with a preconfigured connection and with autodetection Sep 25 07:20:12 Proteous: how about this sort of audio tape: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10203 Sep 25 07:20:47 jaem, I want one that comes in a CD formfactor Sep 25 07:20:55 hehe, that would be the day Sep 25 07:21:01 heh Sep 25 07:21:06 in both cases it finds the WiFi network and apparently starts setting it up, but it fails to connect in the end Sep 25 07:21:07 micromirror arrays in a disc Sep 25 07:21:15 trying static IP... Sep 25 07:21:30 EAP packets seem to be used for radius WPA athentication Sep 25 07:21:37 actually, my job this summer was flipping bits - but I became redundant when they bought a high-speed inverter Sep 25 07:21:50 flipping bits? Sep 25 07:21:59 sounds mind numbing Sep 25 07:22:05 and finger numbing too Sep 25 07:22:19 I was kidding - it's a joke my friend and I have regarding the quality of the jobs I got this past summer Sep 25 07:22:21 Proteous: oh, the router has the ability to use a RADIUS server Sep 25 07:22:35 but none is configured. Sep 25 07:22:40 analogous to flipping burgers (== lousy, pointless job) Sep 25 07:22:51 bits can be bits of meat Sep 25 07:22:52 too Sep 25 07:22:54 :) Sep 25 07:23:01 or bits of human flesh!! Sep 25 07:23:06 Ground Beef is Ground Sep 25 07:23:09 he didn't specified what bits he was using Sep 25 07:23:26 are these big endian or little endian bits? Sep 25 07:23:32 (and, Worn-out Phrasal Template is a worn-out phrasal template) >< sorry Sep 25 07:23:33 little indian bits Sep 25 07:23:35 :> Sep 25 07:23:49 no one has ever heard that one before Sep 25 07:23:54 heh Sep 25 07:24:14 COMEDY GOLD Sep 25 07:24:15 beefed up bits Sep 25 07:24:21 I like my bits raw Sep 25 07:24:23 as in, a "2" bit Sep 25 07:24:29 e.g. magic smoke Sep 25 07:24:35 it's a kind of sweet too Sep 25 07:24:42 all my computer run in trinary Sep 25 07:24:58 * Proteous forgets the s Sep 25 07:25:01 Proteous: it works/it doesn't work/it's off? Sep 25 07:25:02 XD Sep 25 07:25:08 ha! Sep 25 07:25:15 yes, no, maybe Sep 25 07:25:15 ;) Sep 25 07:25:18 heh Sep 25 07:25:21 abort/retry/fail Sep 25 07:25:29 abort/retry/ignore Sep 25 07:25:29 KotCzarny: yes, no, do you really want to know? Sep 25 07:25:30 XD Sep 25 07:25:40 yes, no, not mine? Sep 25 07:25:41 ;) Sep 25 07:25:48 Which value would you like the bit to have? Sep 25 07:25:48 [OK] Sep 25 07:26:30 if you need bits, the founder of Autodesk has some you can have: http://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/ Sep 25 07:26:34 PalmaSutra Sep 25 07:26:35 O.o Sep 25 07:27:12 now in colour Sep 25 07:27:15 o.O Sep 25 07:27:29 do we have such thing for nit ? Sep 25 07:27:30 I guess a guy who can take a russian nuclear icebreaker to the North Pole for an eclipse can afford some nice random, yummy, hot bits Sep 25 07:27:56 bleh, still no go.... I don't understand what is it that makes my N800 specifically fail with this router... now (until yesterday it worked flawlessly) Sep 25 07:28:22 hrm Sep 25 07:28:25 I've been having problems with WPA2-Enterprise, but that's probably just my uni's stupid network Sep 25 07:28:36 they try, but they continually fail Sep 25 07:28:43 at least the unsecured one works Sep 25 07:29:44 I'm going to fire up some bluetooth goodness to get my N810 on the net in my room, until I can fix my router Sep 25 07:29:54 KotCzarny, hows the video ? :) Sep 25 07:30:13 ...now if I could only find the BT dongle among the mass of hard drives, routers, vintage computers, and robots cluttering up my desk :P Sep 25 07:30:18 lcuk: youtube was down, so i fired up 'magnolia' for me Sep 25 07:30:19 :) Sep 25 07:30:31 dont mind that, like what you see? Sep 25 07:30:42 i shall watch it now Sep 25 07:30:51 ;) Sep 25 07:30:58 ok, time to go. Work awaits Sep 25 07:31:17 (computer clone restore, yay....) Sep 25 07:31:20 ttyl Sep 25 07:31:43 2451.4 kbps Sep 25 07:31:50 htm. Sep 25 07:31:50 hrm. Sep 25 07:31:52 my poor dsl Sep 25 07:32:19 i shall download it then Sep 25 07:34:06 Beware of buying electronics from sketchy booths... my BT MAC is 11:11:11:11:11:11 >< Sep 25 07:34:32 :) Sep 25 07:34:34 is it possible to change (at least temporarily) a bluetooth MAC? Sep 25 07:34:35 reflash Sep 25 07:34:39 morning Sep 25 07:34:39 with proper init Sep 25 07:34:44 no - this is my dongle Sep 25 07:34:46 my NIT is fine Sep 25 07:34:50 jaem: whats wrong with this mac? Sep 25 07:35:09 ahm Sep 25 07:36:01 well, judging by my impression of the company that made it, and the general level of Fail present in the dongle, my guess is that they may not actually have unique MACs Sep 25 07:37:14 http://www.dorinek.pl/photo/product_small/b/5/5/1_b557b0cf1973.jpg Sep 25 07:37:16 :) Sep 25 07:37:34 ha! Sep 25 07:37:44 jaem: but thats fine as long as you do not have second such dongle in same area Sep 25 07:37:47 yeah... like I thought, that MAC isn't registered as belonging to any vendor Sep 25 07:37:57 well, the were sold at my uni, hence my concern Sep 25 07:38:10 at least it's not 00:00:00:00:00:00 Sep 25 07:38:11 come to think of it, the RED bluetooth logo should have been a tip-off Sep 25 07:38:14 rofl Sep 25 07:38:17 or ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff Sep 25 07:38:30 (not to mention the upside-down Windows-compatibility logo) Sep 25 07:38:38 :) Sep 25 07:38:49 Check the bdaddr utility that comes with the bluez-utils source Sep 25 07:38:54 thanks Sep 25 07:39:06 that's a google result Sep 25 07:39:11 hadn't tried Sep 25 07:56:14 Morning, all Sep 25 07:56:23 morning Sep 25 07:56:23 Morning Jaffa. Sep 25 07:57:39 hmm... something tells me that connecting to an unsecured network with SSID "donteventryit" may not be wise - but what the heck! Sep 25 07:57:49 * jaem feels adventureous Sep 25 07:58:06 good night/morning everyone Sep 25 07:58:28 nite nite Sep 25 07:59:12 thanks for the help, everyone Sep 25 07:59:13 night Sep 25 08:08:23 * Jaffa has identified part of the root cause of #3335 and #3542 - I'm a happy man. Sep 25 08:08:38 root digger Sep 25 08:08:40 But now I've gone mack to my OS2005-levels of mistrust on backup/restore Sep 25 08:40:35 hello again Sep 25 08:40:50 somehow, the whole "going to bed because it's late" thing didn't work out as planned :D Sep 25 08:40:56 life Sep 25 08:41:00 university Sep 25 08:41:03 and everything Sep 25 08:41:08 in otherwords, 42 Sep 25 08:41:12 you will be hurting later Sep 25 08:41:14 lol Sep 25 08:41:18 2:30PM class Sep 25 08:41:20 not so much Sep 25 08:41:25 liqbase overview 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfuY_fglmD8 Sep 25 08:42:01 so... I set up Telepathy-haze for libpurple integration, but the chat client tries to connect to my MSN contacts using GTalk... and then complains - loudly Sep 25 08:42:15 however, if they initiate a conversation, it's fine Sep 25 08:42:19 any ideas on that? Sep 25 08:52:31 moo, lcuk Sep 25 08:54:46 lcuk: You integrated a brwoser? Sep 25 08:54:58 ;) Sep 25 09:02:44 is there a new flasher release as well as system release? Sep 25 09:05:10 because I'm going to finally update my device to Diablo, now that it has some down time ;) Sep 25 09:31:12 AStorm: be *very* careful of restoring saved wireless LAN connections: see #3335 and #3542 Sep 25 09:36:50 Hi, Can i install maemo on n73 ? Sep 25 09:37:27 hamid: No. Sep 25 09:37:37 X-Fade: thx :) Sep 25 09:40:06 * sp3000 joins #3335 Sep 25 09:40:52 Jaffa: I won't be restoring backup :) Sep 25 09:41:36 AStorm: to me, that sounds *very* sensible :-( Sep 25 09:42:06 trick is, all the data is on card Sep 25 09:42:33 and for wlans, I know all the connection data (except one, but there I'll have to get a real account anyway) Sep 25 09:45:01 btw, is there some better daemon to control backlight based on light sensor? Sep 25 09:45:38 (more configurable than the default with 5 positions and no possibility to set the function to calculate backlight) Sep 25 09:46:50 (two linear functions would be enough for me) Sep 25 09:47:19 3 would be en Sep 25 09:47:22 *even better Sep 25 09:47:59 or should I write something to do that? Sep 25 10:13:05 if you do write something, I'd use it Sep 25 10:14:00 by the way, is there a way to turn off the warnings that say "Nokia has not blessed this piece of software, use at your own risk"? I know by now that most of my apps are not from Nokia's repos, and I don't really give a darn Sep 25 10:50:54 ping -B #maemo Sep 25 10:53:18 hi arnim Sep 25 10:53:19 pong Sep 25 10:58:13 hi! Sep 25 10:59:00 pong too ! Sep 25 10:59:14 RST38h, vgba 3.6 fixed most of the compat problems Sep 25 11:02:29 very excited to see the fb0 scaling vedrfsion :) Sep 25 11:02:29 hi solmumaha, melmoth Sep 25 11:02:31 I know Sep 25 11:02:56 3.6.1 will fix the speed Sep 25 11:03:46 btw, if you like any of my stuff go vote for it at maemo downloads - lets bring it up into the best software list =) Sep 25 11:03:57 :) Sep 25 11:04:20 ok Sep 25 11:26:47 heh, vanhoof is happily proposing to add one more major daemon to the system Sep 25 11:27:02 somebody has to stop this madness Sep 25 11:27:35 RST38h: I read something different? Sep 25 11:27:55 xfade: dunno, it is on planet Sep 25 11:28:12 xfade: and my comment is there as well Sep 25 11:28:14 RST38h: In any case this will replace metalayer-crawler thingy? Sep 25 11:28:25 xfade: no :( Sep 25 11:28:54 the thumbnailer thing? Sep 25 11:28:54 crawler crawls mp3 metadata (tags) Sep 25 11:29:08 this thing will create image thumnails Sep 25 11:29:16 it sounded sane to me Sep 25 11:29:17 RST38h: I tought it crawels every data. Also images etc? Sep 25 11:29:27 a program asks for a thumbnail (via dbus) Sep 25 11:29:30 xfade: afsik not Sep 25 11:29:34 and goes on working interactively Sep 25 11:29:35 afaik Sep 25 11:29:44 mgedmin is correct Sep 25 11:29:45 while dbus spaswns a thumbnailer and has it work in the background Sep 25 11:30:08 Sure, but that is no runnig daemon. Sep 25 11:30:17 and if it does not die, it will create rquested thumbnail and inform the caller Sep 25 11:30:21 Damn, packet loss on my keyboard ;) Sep 25 11:30:34 connected to n810? Sep 25 11:30:46 there is a bug for that you know Sep 25 11:31:11 This will only help others with not needing to code thumbnailing stuff themselves. Sep 25 11:31:18 I don't see this as a bad thing? Sep 25 11:31:31 I am against MORE resident stuff Sep 25 11:31:38 RST38h: This won't be resident. Sep 25 11:31:56 maemo already has 3 major resident processes, neither of which works well Sep 25 11:31:58 RST38h: And you really missed a lot of talks at the summit ;) Sep 25 11:32:25 I have not missed any of problems with my 810 though:( Sep 25 11:33:07 somewhat against more dbus stuff too (although not as much) Sep 25 11:33:41 RST38h: You should really read the article again.. Sep 25 11:34:00 I did. Sep 25 11:34:20 And also his previous one: http://pvanhoof.be/blog/index.php/2008/09/07/heres-a-meme-orgfreedesktopthumbnailer Sep 25 11:34:31 does nothing to disspell my instability fears Sep 25 11:34:52 especially after modest Sep 25 11:35:07 RST38h: It is open software you know ;) Sep 25 11:35:42 xfade: it is what comes from nokia by default Sep 25 11:36:01 RST38h: Yes, but if you have a problem. You can fix it. Sep 25 11:36:19 xfade: my opinion is that all the default stuff from nokia must 100% work Sep 25 11:36:31 the rest is open software Sep 25 11:36:46 Kicking against things doesn't help a lot. Sep 25 11:37:26 I know. But it does give some minor satisdaction. Sep 25 11:37:43 especially the "told you so" stage Sep 25 11:37:54 For you maybe, but a lot of people will eventually put you on their ignore list. Sep 25 11:38:02 And that can't be a good thing. Sep 25 11:38:41 * RST38h is pretty selfish and will prefer personal satisfaction :) Sep 25 11:40:20 as to pvanhoof or timeless they seem to have automatic ignore on anyone who does not agree with their master plan, so arguing with them is useless Sep 25 11:46:14 Hello Again (copyright apple inc) Sep 25 11:46:22 ehlo Sep 25 11:47:05 ACK:220 Sep 25 11:47:24 btw, anyone ever got any flash applets to work in diablo? Sep 25 11:47:52 hi Khertan_n810 , i am so sorry i missed you when i left - i had a great time and really enjoyed meeting with you :) Sep 25 11:48:19 lcuk: i really enjoying meeting you too Sep 25 11:48:34 and you were mostly understandable \o/ Sep 25 11:48:41 :) Sep 25 11:49:16 how was the trip back Sep 25 11:50:04 a lot of discuss with loic minier while waiting the boarding at tghe airport Sep 25 11:50:25 and funny to discuss in the plane with two corean Sep 25 11:50:34 which use an iphone Sep 25 11:50:36 yes, i think we all came away with lots to think about and to try to achieve Sep 25 11:50:56 and explaining why i prefer the n810 over an iPhone :) Sep 25 11:51:19 my explanation is simpler - i stopped finger painting when i was a baby Sep 25 11:51:34 and i ve now enought feedback to know that mCalendar need a syncml synchronisation Sep 25 11:51:58 and you how was your flying back ? Sep 25 11:52:40 i think you get some nokia contacts interested by your demonstration ... Sep 25 11:52:58 tiring.. i was slightly delayed leaving tegal, then landed in frankfurt late - was told to RUNNNNNNNN through the airport which i did at top whack (i was like a man possessed, i think its where my sore through has come from) Sep 25 11:53:18 the security staff saw my distress and very nicely calmed me down Sep 25 11:53:30 and reassured me that i had not missed the flight Sep 25 11:53:33 :) Sep 25 11:53:37 i think i did the 4 minute mile ;) Sep 25 11:53:40 héhé Sep 25 11:53:41 Khertan_n810: cool on the syncml thing (does the latest version use alarmd for auto-sync?) Sep 25 11:53:44 with a laptop case Sep 25 11:54:04 Jaffa: yep Sep 25 11:54:10 cool Sep 25 11:54:15 Khertan_n810, yes, it has piqued the interest of a lot of people :) Sep 25 11:54:50 lcuk: of course as it s really interesting Sep 25 11:55:29 i am going to hold all features exactly here and enter a cleanup and extended beta testing phase to iron out any remaining issues (hard written paths initial data inclusions/configuration options etc) Sep 25 11:55:37 Jaffa: i m looking at this time if there is an existing implementation in python to not recreate the wheel Sep 25 11:56:51 Khertan_n810: cool - I'm surprised of the scarcity of SyncML implementations, last time I looked. Sep 25 11:57:25 khertan or anyone else , if you would like to be involved in the testing phase for liqbase (nothing more than running and reporting required) then get your name on the thread here Sep 25 11:57:27 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23854 Sep 25 11:58:00 theres a new youtube video but you dont get to laugh at my accent this time :D Sep 25 11:58:19 its not as slick cos im a bit under the weather but runs over most things as they were at the summit Sep 25 11:58:51 yeah i will test it Sep 25 11:59:10 i m coming back to work Sep 25 11:59:11 bye Sep 25 11:59:12 heh, excellent Sep 25 11:59:15 cya Sep 25 12:00:55 im goin grabbin lunch anyway Sep 25 12:00:56 bbiab Sep 25 12:04:18 RST38h, ? Sep 25 12:05:00 nothing Sep 25 12:05:07 RST38h, you understand that this daemon shuts itself down after a moment of inactivity? Sep 25 12:05:18 RST38h, that it gets activated by dbus? Sep 25 12:05:21 yes, X-Fade explained to me Sep 25 12:05:32 Ok, so what about the madness that you were referring to? Sep 25 12:05:37 still, it is less reliable than a library call Sep 25 12:06:03 RST38h, thumbnailers cal be provided by 3th party developers who might make shitty code that crashes Sep 25 12:06:22 RST38h, if a library does it in-process, that means that 3th party developer can make your software crash Sep 25 12:06:24 pvanhoof: And you want to run third-party thumbnailers as a dbus service> Sep 25 12:06:27 ? Sep 25 12:06:33 RST38h, please elaborate on how a library call is more reliable? Sep 25 12:06:50 A library call simply brings your app down. No aftereffects. Sep 25 12:06:53 RST38h, they can run as their own service, yes Sep 25 12:07:03 In the worst case, it hangs your app but you can still close it Sep 25 12:07:06 RST38h, isn't that a huge aftereffect?! Sep 25 12:07:23 RST38h, also, A LOT OF apps will be using thumbnails Sep 25 12:07:27 No, it is manageable as far as a user is concerned - "Program just died, so I restarted it" Sep 25 12:07:40 so ALL those apps will crash if a bad 3th party thumbnailer is installed Sep 25 12:07:49 no it's not managable Sep 25 12:07:57 on the device the user's process IS ALL Sep 25 12:08:06 Now, stuck service is invisible to the user - can't close it, can't see it unless using 3rd party process viewer (and knowing what it is) Sep 25 12:08:08 if you crash them all, the user has nothing useful anymore Sep 25 12:08:16 that means 100% and total fail Sep 25 12:08:31 The only actual advantage a service has is that you can lower it in priority and avoid total hangup Sep 25 12:08:32 Since ALL data is installed accessibly by the user, differentiating between root and user makes no difference Sep 25 12:08:47 sure it can close it Sep 25 12:08:55 How? Sep 25 12:08:57 and it will self-close after a timeout too Sep 25 12:09:14 Does stuck Modest self-close after a timeout? Sep 25 12:09:23 RST38h, yuo do know that a daemon that is just running the mainloop, wont even consume any significant amount of battery,for example, right? Sep 25 12:09:27 While it is stuck, can you bring it up with a dbus call? Sep 25 12:09:42 Yes, but it is not like it will stuck in the mainloop :) Sep 25 12:10:00 That's a bug in the program. I don't see how this relates to your concerns Sep 25 12:10:03 bugs must be fixed Sep 25 12:10:30 Yuo have a problem, and you think replacing solid architecture with insane architecture will solve it Sep 25 12:10:45 My concern is that running large or fundamentally unreliable code as a service is a bad idea Sep 25 12:11:05 Using a library call is not insane - it is plain and stupid approach that is known to work Sep 25 12:11:09 and inprocess with a majority of your applications is a good idea? Sep 25 12:11:17 no, it IS insane Sep 25 12:11:22 dude, seriously Sep 25 12:11:29 Why is it insane? Sep 25 12:11:29 know what you are talking about Sep 25 12:11:35 If it's fundamentally unreliable, it *should* be extra-process (and, even better, made not unreliable) Sep 25 12:11:43 Jaffa, exactly Sep 25 12:11:52 Jaffa: Not really, if you think about it Sep 25 12:12:05 RST38h, consider this. and DO consider it this time Sep 25 12:12:07 Jaffa: If it is fundamentaly unreliable, it will die in or out of the process Sep 25 12:12:21 RST38h: and if it dies in-process it takes all my unsaved work with it. Sep 25 12:12:22 RST38h, 3th party application developers require the possibility to plug-in extra thumbnailers for yet unsupported formats Sep 25 12:12:32 Jaffa: So, you better have it die in a place where you can easily clean up after it Sep 25 12:12:36 RST38h, so their potential unreliable code WILL run Sep 25 12:12:37 RST38h: if it dies extra-process, it can be restarted without disrupting my work. Sep 25 12:12:39 whether you like that or not Sep 25 12:12:51 Jaffa: Nice assumption :) Sep 25 12:12:57 jaffa: Now, let us see how it is really work Sep 25 12:12:58 RST38h, so YOUR solution is to let ALL applications in their OWN process space run THAT unreliable code Sep 25 12:13:00 right? Sep 25 12:13:08 And you call that more sane than an activatable daemon doing it Sep 25 12:13:18 Jaffa: If that service is doing all the work and it dies, it STILL takes all your work with it :) Sep 25 12:13:29 Jaffa: at least browserd does :) Sep 25 12:13:31 RST38h, no it doesn't. It just dies Sep 25 12:13:39 RST38h, your library will take all your work with it Sep 25 12:13:42 RST38h: anything can be killed eventually. For example, it could be added to the watchdog and regularly pinged over dbus Sep 25 12:13:57 RST38h: most of my work isn't being done by a thumbnailer - which is the design being discussed. Sep 25 12:14:06 Jaffa, is right here Sep 25 12:14:13 most of his work ain't thumbnailing Sep 25 12:14:23 Jaffa: Well if it is truly optional then it does not matter if it dies or not (unless it gets stuck in a loop browserd style) Sep 25 12:14:28 the thumbnailer service can be killed, crashed, whatever, and it wont disrupt his apps Sep 25 12:14:45 If this code would run in Jaffa's applications process space, it would kill Jaffa's apps Sep 25 12:14:49 Jaffa: But in this case, the developer has to absolutely *guarantee* that the service will terminate Sep 25 12:14:52 RST38h: indeed - and then the only differentiating thing is that IF it does die (which is a bug which should be fixed, anyway) it doesn't take my app with it. Sep 25 12:15:03 pvanhoof: No, it will just kill one app it is linked to Sep 25 12:15:13 RST38h, but A MAJORITY OF APPS DO Sep 25 12:15:27 Jaffa: Well if it is a dbus server it won't take its caller out Sep 25 12:15:41 Jaffa: So the real issue here is how to avoid it hanging up Sep 25 12:15:49 Music players, file managers, searchers, browsers (showing thumbs for bookmarks): they all need thumbnailing Sep 25 12:15:54 so all these would crash Sep 25 12:15:57 RST38h: indeed - but *you* called it "fundamentally unreliable" Sep 25 12:15:58 Jaffa: Notice that both browserd and modest fail to solve this issue Sep 25 12:16:15 Jaffa: In fact, mplayer (called from Canola) fails to solve it too Sep 25 12:16:23 RST38h, you are taking a product that has failed for you, and you are now thinking: if those fail, then all fail Sep 25 12:16:36 RST38h, but you are really not knowing what you are talking about Sep 25 12:16:44 pvanhoof: I am taking at least 2 *critical* system components and say that they do not work well Sep 25 12:16:52 RST38h, first of all, no application will hang until thumbnailerd responds Sep 25 12:17:06 pvanhoof: As to my not knowing what I am talking about, this is somewhat incorrect :) Sep 25 12:17:09 if it gets killed, the application will just get a DBusError, and will either handle that or retry Sep 25 12:17:34 pvanhoof: No problem with implementing thumbnailer as a service. but only AFTER other critical services are fixed. Sep 25 12:17:35 Killing the daemon wont kill the apps, at all Sep 25 12:17:55 RST38h, I already replied that a problem that team X has, doesn't mean teams Y and Z must wait Sep 25 12:17:58 Jaffa: BTW, should we remember the media crawler as well? How it has a tendency to go into a loop? Sep 25 12:18:16 pvanhoof: I do not see this as a problem of team XYZ Sep 25 12:18:25 RST38h, if you propose that development methodology, you are just proposing something idiot Sep 25 12:18:37 pvanhoof: I see it as a problem with a firmware release Sep 25 12:18:58 I don't know why you are reading developer's blogs then Sep 25 12:19:00 pvanhoof: How this problem is solved in house by Nokia is of no particular interest to me a s a user Sep 25 12:19:03 you should read marketing people's blogs Sep 25 12:19:20 RST38h, yes, as a user, don't read the blogs of developers Sep 25 12:19:23 read the blogs of marketing people Sep 25 12:19:24 But I do *politely* suggest to avoid making the problem worse. Sep 25 12:19:31 politely, right Sep 25 12:19:44 pvanhoof: Thank you, I will make my own decision on what I read :) Sep 25 12:19:56 I'm not forcing you to buy something Sep 25 12:20:14 Not even working at nokia, except as a contractor Sep 25 12:20:16 Actually, once the next software update arrives from nokia, you do Sep 25 12:20:52 pvanhoof: know of any Nokia marketeer's blogs which they disdcuss future stuff? ;-) Sep 25 12:20:54 As I mentioned to XFade before, all the default stuff that comes from Nokia *must* work. Sep 25 12:20:59 Just said, I'm not employed by nokia. You should complain to marketing people for high-level complaints like: if you don't fix problem X first, don't even think about problems Y and Z!!! Sep 25 12:21:30 pvanhoof: Am I complaining? I am just describing the current situation. Sep 25 12:21:32 Jaffa, What about quim? Sep 25 12:21:51 RST38h, there's a public bugzilla with products for Modest and the browser Sep 25 12:22:02 I can of course repeat this description to Quim but he has probably heard it hundred times before Sep 25 12:22:12 I seriously don't know why you are constantly whining about those, as they are totally unrelated to thumbnailing Sep 25 12:22:17 pvanhoof: Should I list to you the bug ids then? :) Sep 25 12:22:23 'cause all the proper bugs are filed Sep 25 12:22:48 Well, and as a subcontractor I know that bugs have been solved and are being tested as we speak Sep 25 12:22:49 pvanhoof: because I expect the thumbnailing to add to the problem Sep 25 12:23:05 You expect that because you don't know what you are talking about Sep 25 12:23:20 On the other hand, I do understand that background thumbnail creation is nice and useful Sep 25 12:23:50 Yes, and a library will not make your device more stable. Exactly not Sep 25 12:23:54 Oh, you do not know how well I know what I am talking about :( Let's not get into this though. Sep 25 12:24:01 Also Sep 25 12:24:07 the library will just take the whole app with it Sep 25 12:24:17 not nice but at least controllable Sep 25 12:24:23 A library would require nokia to write their own license that allows linking with closed things Sep 25 12:24:29 Oh Sep 25 12:24:32 as 3th party developers will want to develop closed thumbnailer plugins Sep 25 12:24:38 even an .so? Sep 25 12:25:06 And if a lot of apps use the thumbnailing Sep 25 12:25:19 then the bad software will periodically make important apps crash Sep 25 12:25:21 how is that managable?! Sep 25 12:25:38 Like, your filemanager will sometimes crash Sep 25 12:25:43 And then tracker will sometimes crash Sep 25 12:25:54 And then the image application and the camera app will sometimes crash Sep 25 12:26:33 Else, we can show you a nice message that says: the app with this info in the package crashed, you want to check for updates or uninstall? Sep 25 12:26:43 And that app would be the bad 3th party thumbnailer Sep 25 12:26:58 You tell me, what is most managable? Sep 25 12:27:41 RST38h, "one application sometimes crashes" is not a good answer. Those applications are the crucial backbone of the device. Without them, there's no functional device. They can't just crash Sep 25 12:28:04 * RST38h is ok with applications that sometimes crash Sep 25 12:28:06 RST38h, for example if tracker would "just crash" it could corrupt the index database Sep 25 12:28:22 That means rebuilding it, that means several hours of battery consumption Sep 25 12:28:23 That is what happens anyway Sep 25 12:29:33 Right, so you want an architecture of random(), where sometimes things crash. Sporadically. Instead of always one thing that crashes, that is perfectly identifyable Sep 25 12:29:37 hey that's great for you Sep 25 12:29:46 You can flash your device with Windows CE, RST38h Sep 25 12:29:51 That'll give you that behaviour Sep 25 12:32:58 This is as close to calling me names as you have got so far. Sep 25 12:34:07 But anyway, my original statement stays: fix browser, email and (possibly) media crawler first, then add more services Sep 25 12:34:31 [not meaning you personally of course :)] Sep 25 12:34:49 I'm not involved in email anymore, and the problem (if it's the same problem that I have in mind) has been fixed in recent releases Sep 25 12:35:00 About browser and media crawler, I don't even know those guys Sep 25 12:35:06 pvanhoof: Recent release no longer busy-loops but it hangs. Sep 25 12:35:19 Then file a (new) bug about that Sep 25 12:35:37 browserd busy loops at the lightest provocation - had to kill it 4 times via ssh just last night Sep 25 12:35:38 I don't see why you need to piss on the guy specifying a thumbnailer infrastructure Sep 25 12:35:48 That has absolutely nothing to dow ith this problem of yours Sep 25 12:36:02 This is not problem of mine. This is just a problem. Sep 25 12:36:07 Not even in a single imaginable way. Except that both things run under the same kernel Sep 25 12:36:34 The reason why you have been "pissed upon" (wrong choice of words but anyway) is because you suggested introducing more services into the system Sep 25 12:36:38 Dude, yeaa .. I hear youuoeee Sep 25 12:36:47 It's unrelated to thumbnailing. Listen Sep 25 12:36:50 It Sep 25 12:36:51 is Sep 25 12:36:54 unrelated Sep 25 12:36:55 ok? Sep 25 12:37:02 ok Sep 25 12:37:05 thank you Sep 25 12:37:46 But if I have to file a bug "hung thumbnailer copies multiply with time" or something similar, you can expect the "told you so" reaction ;) Sep 25 12:37:52 Introducing services has nothing to do with the problem Sep 25 12:38:11 The problem of modest was bad initalization of Microb's NSS afaik Sep 25 12:38:19 For that reason it hung in a lock() Sep 25 12:38:34 Meaning that the kernel will not even schedule it anymore, but that yes it hangs Sep 25 12:38:38 it still does, btw =( Sep 25 12:38:58 I don't know if they have released packages with the fix yet, as I said, I'm not involved with Email anymore Sep 25 12:39:11 not yet, not for the latest bug Sep 25 12:39:42 Also, modest is not a service. It gets ran as a service by hiding its user interface Sep 25 12:39:44 browserd hangups I have traced to something inside it busy-looping with gettimeofday() Sep 25 12:39:53 But it's not developed as a service, the UI is just not visible Sep 25 12:40:04 Possibly Flash player. Which brings a question if *anybody* managed to run *any* flash applet on Diablo? Sep 25 12:40:13 And modest is opensource, so you can fix this problem too Sep 25 12:40:41 RST38h, actually .. the flash stuff runs in process with the browser Sep 25 12:40:54 RST38h, just like a .so would, actually. In fact, it IS a .so afaik Sep 25 12:40:54 Now I've worked around #3542, I just wish modest had the grouped conversation thing for dealing with the mailing lists Sep 25 12:41:04 pvanhoof: according to htop it works in process with browserd now Sep 25 12:41:35 RST38h, I don't know of a flash plugin that runs in its own process. Except google's recent browser makes the plugins run in their own processes, afaik Sep 25 12:41:44 But I'm no expert on this Sep 25 12:41:59 Anyway, the fact that your browser hangs is caused by a 3th party developer: macromedia Sep 25 12:42:06 pvanhoof: no, the problem there is that the whole browser is now a service Sep 25 12:42:23 pvanhoof: So if it hangs, you cannot easily kill it Sep 25 12:42:58 Then make a little python applet that does killall -9 browserd? Sep 25 12:43:08 the reason for hanging is not important but given that there is whole Gecko there, there will always be a reason Sep 25 12:43:28 pvanhoof: Sorry but why should I do something like that? Why not fix the browser? Sep 25 12:43:35 Sure, and that's a reason to say that all services are bad? Sep 25 12:43:43 RST38h, exactly what I'm saying: fix the bug Sep 25 12:43:45 Or change the architecture to allow killing it with the close icon Sep 25 12:43:55 RST38h, you know that your device runs a large amount of services, right? Sep 25 12:44:01 pvanhoof: 'cause there are problems with at least 3 major services in Maemo Sep 25 12:44:30 pvanhoof: and there is a certain common trend with these problems Sep 25 12:44:39 Yes, people whining Sep 25 12:44:53 Usually people who have no clue Sep 25 12:45:05 Look, people would not whine if there won't be any problems Sep 25 12:45:16 weren't sorry Sep 25 12:45:35 But if people don't have a clue, why are they trying to propose an architecture ? especially if that architecture doesn't make sense? Sep 25 12:45:59 Anyway, I should really let go of this and try to get something done here Sep 25 12:46:24 one final thing Sep 25 12:46:27 RST38h as to pvanhoof or timeless they seem to have automatic ignore on anyone who does not agree with their master plan, so arguing with them is useless Sep 25 12:46:30 You wrote that, right? Sep 25 12:46:55 You are aware that development of the spec and prototype was done 100% in community mode, that I mailed xdg-list about the spec before the first line of code was written Sep 25 12:46:59 that a discussion about it took place Sep 25 12:47:24 You understand that saying that I'm ignoring people is bulls. right? Sep 25 12:56:07 with nspluginviewer in firefox, plugins run as a separate process Sep 25 12:56:25 it's not firefox on the device, right? Sep 25 12:56:39 Anyway, I don't know how plugins run Sep 25 12:56:57 But I know it's not related to either modest, thumbnailers, other services Sep 25 12:57:02 no it isn't Sep 25 12:57:22 So I'm categorizing all this as a rant, and continuing my work :) Sep 25 12:58:27 browserd sounds like a terrible idea, surely it'll just bloat to the point where it would be 50X faster to load a fresh browser instead of trying to swap in random bits of the existing :-) Sep 25 12:59:32 I guess it's just the browser's code hiding a UI Sep 25 12:59:44 I don't consider that to be a service Sep 25 12:59:54 A service is something you can ask, and it'll perform that for you Sep 25 13:00:01 s/ask/ask things Sep 25 13:00:19 You could of course say: I asked it to render a webpage Sep 25 13:00:35 Hmrr, well .. I still wont consider it to be a service. Sep 25 13:01:30 ShadowJK, they could just have a small app that keeps all the libraries of gecko mmapped() (dlopen()-ed) Sep 25 13:01:40 ShadowJK, that would speedup loading the browser drastically too Sep 25 13:14:26 hi, is there a way to provide tooltip using Qt for n810, I tried with setToolTip but it's of no use on the device Sep 25 13:15:03 ranit: tooltips are working with Qt on n810... the issue is that it's hard to "hover" with the stylus over an item Sep 25 13:15:14 how would a tooltip even work on a touhcscreen only device... Sep 25 13:15:31 Mek: my point exactly ;) Sep 25 13:15:34 tha's right Sep 25 13:18:22 may be by getting the single click event to display the tooltip and double click to exec the action Sep 25 13:54:04 http://englishrussia.com/?p=2063 Sep 25 13:54:07 Enjoy Sep 25 14:09:45 Hi Is ther any way to remote loging to scratchbox. Sep 25 14:10:46 log into your host machine then log into scratchbox Sep 25 14:15:24 hmm, so if you'd want to file a bug against File Manager, would you take a look into "Applications" or into "System software" product in bugzilla? Sep 25 14:15:30 * andre___ is undecided on reorganizing Sep 25 14:15:40 Applications seems more logical Sep 25 14:15:50 It is an app after all.. Sep 25 14:16:08 But if it is the file-open dialog, it goes under a different category Sep 25 14:16:53 Btw, have we got a bug about file-open dialog trying to scan all the subdirectories in the current one? Takes almost a minute on my n810 Sep 25 14:18:52 andre___, system software Sep 25 14:20:15 hehe, differing opinions means "if in doubt, keep it as it is"... i should finally post the "grand plan" at this weekend Sep 25 14:23:04 pvanhoof, well, preloading on a ram-limited machine seems silly in the first place Sep 25 14:23:26 ShadowJK, depends Sep 25 14:23:29 Shadow: actually, preloading browserd loses about 5MB of memory Sep 25 14:23:36 If the most used app is the browser ... then it makes a lot of sense Sep 25 14:23:40 Shadow: So it is not the main problem with it Sep 25 14:24:11 Shadow: the main problem is that, with Gecko there, chances of making it "not crash" are nil Sep 25 14:24:24 preloading doesn't make new processes (being browsers) not restart from scratch Sep 25 14:24:36 preloading just makes sure the .so files are all in ram Sep 25 14:24:44 pvanhoof: btw, do you know how much time preloading saves with MicroB? Sep 25 14:24:52 killing the browser and restarting it will still restart all running code Sep 25 14:24:57 [well not preloading, but using browserd, ok] Sep 25 14:24:58 no Sep 25 14:25:07 microb starts pretty quickly as is Sep 25 14:25:09 pvanhoof: between 2 and 3 seconds :) Sep 25 14:25:18 browserd, yea: just gtk_widget_show () instead of fork() execv() Sep 25 14:25:29 pvanhoof: our friend timeless did not believe at first but then grudgingly accepted this Sep 25 14:26:04 I mean, most of the time if I have the browser running, and have done something else in the meanwhile like xchat and watching a movie or similar, then switching back to the browser can take longer than it took to load it in the first place :/ Sep 25 14:26:31 looks like the running browser got its cache swapped out Sep 25 14:26:39 Have you enabled a swap file? Sep 25 14:26:41 yes Sep 25 14:26:44 Disable it Sep 25 14:26:54 What, and have random programs die all the time? :-( Sep 25 14:27:17 Well, if your running browser swaps away a bunch of memory to a extremely slow flash device .. Sep 25 14:27:26 And you make the kernel swap it back in Sep 25 14:27:31 then yea, that'll take some time Sep 25 14:27:40 But without swap, there wont be swapping-out :) Sep 25 14:27:46 Just more memory usage Sep 25 14:27:58 I don't know what's worse, painfully slow swap-in or programs getting killed by the random() algorithm :D Sep 25 14:28:15 It's a choice :) Sep 25 14:28:17 ShadowJK: Official response: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3705#c5 Sep 25 14:28:26 The first swap-out is pretty fast and unnoticeable, sequential writes that stream quickly to flash Sep 25 14:28:41 speaking of slow: is the internal memory card slower then sdhc cards? Sep 25 14:28:56 yes, somewhat Sep 25 14:29:04 but then paging in from swap again in random order, and paging out some of those pages again in random order, is a real killer for flash Sep 25 14:29:11 I'm sure there are both faster and slower sdhc cards :) Sep 25 14:29:24 I see Sep 25 14:29:58 good god, is this my lucky (or unlucky) day? Sep 25 14:29:59 ShadowJK, it's a mobile device, with extremely slow storage compared to what people usually use for swap Sep 25 14:30:12 I've had 6 different calls from agencies, only today, when I haven't had a word in about 2 weeks Sep 25 14:30:13 ShadowJK, so if you enable a swap file, it doesn't surprise me that it doesn't work as expected Sep 25 14:30:46 but atleast you /can/ enable swap Sep 25 14:30:48 crash: Agencies do not count Sep 25 14:30:54 Which is a big plus Sep 25 14:30:58 ShadowJK, I guess for the amount of tasks and memory that you want, you better buy a newer device :) Sep 25 14:31:01 crash: Any prospective employers though? Sep 25 14:31:03 With more ram Sep 25 14:31:22 I really hate browsing/chatting/etc on my Nokia E70, when it runs out of ram it just picks one of the open programs and kills it :) Sep 25 14:31:23 ShadowJK, yes you /can/ enable it, but the device is not designed for it :) Sep 25 14:31:38 RST38h, well, I discount people who just call to tell me they're "looking to find me job", only people who send actual job descriptions and everything Sep 25 14:31:46 Which means that switching processes can mean swapping in and out Sep 25 14:32:12 What other devices are there that fit in pocket and runs a non-bastard os :-( Sep 25 14:32:19 and have lots of ram Sep 25 14:32:25 The next version of the device? Sep 25 14:32:32 ah Sep 25 14:32:35 ShadowJK, yeah, I doubt it picks one, I just think the malloc fails and the program gets killed for that, so whichever app tries to access more RAM first get pwned Sep 25 14:32:38 I have not yet received mine :) Sep 25 14:32:58 The default in Linux isn't malloc failing... Sep 25 14:32:58 so I don't know, and if I would know, I would have to kill you after telling you etc etc etc Sep 25 14:33:26 I think a linux kernel can overcommit memory usage Sep 25 14:33:31 yes Sep 25 14:33:43 That's why you want a OOM killer Sep 25 14:33:56 crash: Ah Sep 25 14:33:59 Otherwise it'd never allocate much memory to apps, unless you had lots of swap as backup Sep 25 14:34:08 nods Sep 25 14:34:16 it's also a copy on write allocator afaik Sep 25 14:34:23 crash: I would discount all the agents though - not useful at all Sep 25 14:34:27 so if you do malloc(10milj) it wont really allocate it Sep 25 14:34:32 but if you start writing it, it will Sep 25 14:35:47 ShadowJK, thing is, no matter what decision you make .. you are going to have people who disagree :) Sep 25 14:35:53 :) Sep 25 14:45:40 hmm, next device will have more memory? I'll bet against it. :) Sep 25 14:47:24 johnx: Just add 4GB RAM and be done with it ;) Sep 25 14:47:29 128mb is enough for anyone! Sep 25 14:47:48 * jott wishes for more ram too :/ Sep 25 14:47:59 hi jott Sep 25 14:48:03 hey Sep 25 14:48:06 just looking through packaging info for the OMAP3 makes me think that 128MB of RAM / 256MB of flash will be very likely Sep 25 14:48:14 I'm fine with 128MB though Sep 25 14:48:24 256MB would be nice of course... Sep 25 14:49:00 128mb is very low when you want to use a browser with multiple tabs and multitask... Sep 25 14:49:17 And a filesystem that supports XIP would be nice too :) Sep 25 14:49:19 *g* Sep 25 14:49:22 it's fine for text-tools :) Sep 25 14:51:32 johnx, that's mostly because Micron/Samsung don't _have_ a PoP with 256/256 or 256/512 Sep 25 14:52:27 But we're talking about 8 months from now. Sep 25 14:52:32 So they likely will by then. Sep 25 14:52:48 let's hope so.. Sep 25 14:52:54 (and that it will be used) Sep 25 14:52:55 GeneralAntilles, I think Nokia is less likely to be on the bleeding edge like Pandora devs. Sep 25 14:52:57 I know the Beagle guys are looking at shipping a 256MB RAM-only PoP. Sep 25 14:53:11 johnx, Pandora devs are stuck with 128/256 too. ;) Sep 25 14:53:26 Once it's available, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't use it. Sep 25 14:53:39 Time will tell I guess, but Nokia usually gives their hardware a chance to be field tested, so they won't be doing things last minute is what I mean Sep 25 14:53:53 Well, 8 months is a long time. Sep 25 14:53:57 GeneralAntilles: because it depends when the deadline for such design decisions are.. Sep 25 14:54:07 If Micron/Samsung ship a new PoP by November. Sep 25 14:54:09 :shrugs: Sep 25 14:54:13 ^ what he said Sep 25 14:54:23 It's not out of the realm of possibilities. Sep 25 14:54:43 Who knows, they could be planning on having the PoP ready by the time it goes to press already. ;) Sep 25 14:55:05 yeah. well still for now it's only a wish :) Sep 25 14:55:14 GeneralAntilles, your optimism is impressive :) Sep 25 14:55:30 and Nokia really likes proving me wrong, it seems. :( Sep 25 14:55:35 hah Sep 25 14:55:48 just wish the contrary :) Sep 25 14:56:00 64MB RAM? Sep 25 14:56:00 man I sure hope they don't add more memory Sep 25 14:56:02 Yea, General, you are being too optimistic =) Sep 25 14:56:04 swapping is aaaawesome Sep 25 14:56:12 lol Sep 25 14:56:13 Betting on shit happening is always safer =) Sep 25 14:56:31 you can only be satisfied in the end :) Sep 25 14:56:45 or just say "i knew it" :) Sep 25 14:57:27 *or* you can say "it came out so well!" Sep 25 15:07:43 grrr...desktop is crashing Sep 25 15:09:38 hm the 5 seconds linux system bootup think rockz Sep 25 15:09:58 but we have to wait for .28 kernel for integrate some stuff Sep 25 15:10:33 kinda neat.i prefer suspend to RAM though Sep 25 15:12:15 it would be nice right now though Sep 25 15:16:47 * GeneralAntilles should get back to harassing Apple about their UA stupidity with MobileMe. Sep 25 15:26:58 Angry email sent. Sep 25 15:33:21 * johnx_ stabs his desktop Sep 25 15:33:28 to the death? Sep 25 15:34:05 nah. just til it works Sep 25 15:41:04 thinking heat related Sep 25 15:44:20 hey guys I need your help. I have a python script which is being launched by init.d. Its goal is to open an osso_xterm program. When I run the script it opens a new osso_xterm window but no program. my command is as follows osso_xterm program program_args Sep 25 15:45:07 it is identical to what I have set in a working menu button. the script is run as user...any ideas? I am also using sudo to launch the program after osso_xterm Sep 25 15:56:25 hmm Sep 25 15:56:45 does anyone here know of a good *working* rss reader? Sep 25 15:57:02 default one fails miserably with some feeds (says they have a parse error) Sep 25 15:57:17 ahs, ass Sep 25 15:57:33 hm? Sep 25 15:57:44 with a desktop applet of course :) Sep 25 15:58:36 funny part is that browser displays the feed correctly Sep 25 15:59:36 heh...gpu temp is 94c at idle. little high? Sep 25 16:01:22 Close to boiling H2O coolant :) Sep 25 16:01:26 malikul: init.d is ran before Xomap is started Sep 25 16:01:37 johnx: what kind of CPU? Sep 25 16:01:49 hello world! Sep 25 16:01:54 if it's core 2 duo, then 100°C is max... Sep 25 16:02:08 malikul: maybe... maybe if you add it to runlevel 5 Sep 25 16:02:32 that could work (Xomap should have been already started by then) Sep 25 16:02:37 its a gpu. geforce 6600 Sep 25 16:02:40 assuming DISPLAY variable is set Sep 25 16:02:49 johnx: well, sounds very hot Sep 25 16:02:52 johnx, air conditioning. Sep 25 16:02:59 That, or clean out the dust. :P Sep 25 16:03:07 air conditioning won't help if it's internal temp ;> Sep 25 16:03:21 actually, it will, but not enough Sep 25 16:03:35 these should go to 110 °C max Sep 25 16:03:41 afaicr Sep 25 16:05:13 yeah. it dies hard when x starts Sep 25 16:05:30 wonder whats up with it Sep 25 16:10:32 "sapwood theme engine" - is that still available or is it dead? you guys are a bit longer in this maemo business than i am Sep 25 16:11:12 AStorm: Thanks I have a delay of about 2 min though. It starts to load after the device is fully booted...and then some Sep 25 16:11:17 andre___: it's still being used, at least in diablo. Sep 25 16:11:23 Hello again Sep 25 16:11:35 jott, oh, okay. but isn't that just another theme?! Sep 25 16:11:46 * andre___ is confused that we have three components for theme issues it seems, sigh Sep 25 16:11:57 Which 3? Sep 25 16:11:58 malikul: does the xterm start? Sep 25 16:12:04 andre___: it's a pixmap based theme engine. Sep 25 16:12:12 btw, is 4.1 with latest update now 4.1.1? (for bug reporting) Sep 25 16:12:22 4.1.1 Sep 25 16:12:27 (all maemo themes use it) Sep 25 16:12:28 ok Sep 25 16:12:32 GeneralAntilles: desktop/themes, system sw/hildon-theme, system sw/sapwood Sep 25 16:13:03 andre___: well the themes are defined in a separate gtkrc, but all use sapwood to render. Sep 25 16:13:23 so you can have a bug in sapwood and one in the gtkrc (the actual "theme") Sep 25 16:14:01 and sapwood is weird enough to deserve separation Sep 25 16:14:04 and another one in the matchbox theme... Sep 25 16:14:04 gosh. and now expect a reporter (or me as a non-coder) to understand that ;-) Sep 25 16:14:16 hehehe Sep 25 16:14:17 (for window borders etc) Sep 25 16:14:37 andre___: well, the bug will be properly reassigned if you miss that :> Sep 25 16:14:59 AStorm, heh... *if* there is something with that knowledge reassigning it: yes ;-) Sep 25 16:15:10 johnx: RSS reader, eat bug #3740 Sep 25 16:15:13 ;) Sep 25 16:15:27 someone messed up the parser I guess Sep 25 16:16:24 either css stylesheet info is messing it up Sep 25 16:16:31 or the xml info Sep 25 16:16:37 both of which are standard compliant Sep 25 16:16:45 andre___: so i guess the 3 products/components make all sense :) Sep 25 16:17:00 AStorm: xterm starts up but displays nothing. and the terminal cannot be used...even why you open a new tab...it is just blank Sep 25 16:17:16 malikul123: then it's a bug Sep 25 16:17:28 I'd say report it, try reproducing w/o init script Sep 25 16:17:37 e.g. by running a shell script later Sep 25 16:17:44 (with a launcher) Sep 25 16:18:06 ok, so does anyone have a better RSS reader? Sep 25 16:18:13 (desktop plugin wanted) Sep 25 16:18:16 AStorm: alright let me see what I can do with a forced script loading it without python. Sep 25 16:19:29 jott, not the system-sw/hildon-theme one to me. i'd prefer to merge that into desktop/themes. anyway, just setting up drafts currently and waiting for feedback once i've posted them :) Sep 25 16:23:09 andre___: yeah well, as i said, desktop is actually matchbox and "hildon" is the gtk styling. but i guess for an end-user it's easier to have just one section. i just wonder how it would be handled internally (thinking of using bugzilla for nokia tasks). Sep 25 16:23:32 http://k.jouluserver.com/u/tn_092508-4591-fail-owned-wordsearch-fail.jpg Sep 25 16:23:40 yeah... a trade-off. Sep 25 16:24:17 Hi all, I was trying to install Fennec on my n810, w/ chinook, via the instructions at: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Fennec/Releases I can add the repository just fine and fennec shows up as installable, but when I install it, instead of "fennec succesfully installed" I get an "Unable to install fennec" [Close] ... no reason why Sep 25 16:24:38 any ideas on how to try out fennec, or is it just a matter of waiting for the mozilla guys to fix their repo? Sep 25 16:25:00 Don't bother Sep 25 16:25:05 * Khertan_n810 doesn t understand why he can t have a transparent Treplet Sep 25 16:25:11 It's stil way slow and crashy Sep 25 16:25:33 * Khertan_n810 doesn t understand why he can t have a transparent TreeView Applet Sep 25 16:25:37 GAN800: aaah, ok. Sep 25 16:26:05 jott: solution is simple Sep 25 16:26:17 AStorm: let bugmasters reassign? :) Sep 25 16:26:19 create a mailing list, to which two other mailing lists are subscribed :) Sep 25 16:26:27 like a metaassignment Sep 25 16:26:32 then, people can reassign Sep 25 16:28:17 i guess it boils down to whether the same guys within nokia (or some subcontractors) do desktop and hildon theming :) Sep 25 16:29:02 What it really boils down to is that they're not gonna be looked at anyway, so it really doesn't matter. Sep 25 16:29:23 ^ pessimistic enough for yah? ;) Sep 25 16:29:35 indeed, Nokia doesn't seem to be fixing much Sep 25 16:29:47 at least, that's how Diablo looks Sep 25 16:29:48 GAN800, much better :D Sep 25 16:30:04 probably, they have their hands full of Fremantle Sep 25 16:30:09 (or what it's called) Sep 25 16:30:47 yesh, three cheers for pessimism! :-P Sep 25 16:31:30 card at 98c. time for new fans...tomorrow. night all Sep 25 16:31:44 I wish I had remembered to had out the taser implants for the Summit. Sep 25 16:37:06 GAN800: so we just need one section for everything now called "deprecated stuff" that automatically sets everything to "WONTFIX"? :) Sep 25 16:37:33 Nokia/doesn't care Sep 25 16:38:01 instead of confirming with 3 votes, it's WONTFIXed. Sep 25 16:38:31 this bug has been marked WONTFIX due to popular vote? :) Sep 25 16:38:52 Yessir Sep 25 16:38:53 Stskeeps: is there a way to install your deblet version from tar.bz2 package without using installer? Sep 25 16:39:43 If it doesn't have the votes, it's obviously not worth WONTFIXing Sep 25 16:40:32 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=227358 Sep 25 16:40:36 Haaa Sep 25 16:40:47 exactly the opposite of that bug. Sep 25 16:42:11 "my battery sometimes lives 6 days and sometimes only 4 hours, is this normal?" :P Sep 25 16:42:12 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3735 Sep 25 16:45:35 ok, so where do I get canola for Diablo... or is there none yet? Sep 25 16:45:47 From Extras? Sep 25 16:46:33 it's in extras "non-free" for now. Sep 25 16:46:49 indeed Sep 25 16:47:20 Apparently the beta10 release was a false alarm. ;) Sep 25 16:48:42 yes Sep 25 16:48:47 some python2.5-terra is missing Sep 25 16:49:01 how can I install that then? :P Sep 25 16:49:26 You're not installing beta 10, right? Sep 25 16:49:39 GAN800: I was trying to ;P Sep 25 16:49:58 (had extras-devel enabled) Sep 25 16:50:09 Yeah Sep 25 16:50:25 X-Fade, what's the status of package deletion these days. Sep 25 16:50:29 so, someone screwed up there again :> Sep 25 16:50:45 He's already been whipped. Sep 25 16:50:49 pity there's nothing in application manager to pick a repo from which to install Sep 25 16:51:08 (or in apt) Sep 25 16:51:50 AStorm: with apt you can at least provide a =version .. Sep 25 16:52:36 hmm, but how can I find out about other versions? :P Sep 25 16:52:45 that needs a complete correct version string Sep 25 16:53:47 apt-cache policy pkgname Sep 25 16:55:09 erm... i have some weird problems with my n810.. Sep 25 16:55:55 some strange things are happening, among them the following: i was just ssh'ed in and was executing "ls" then it bombs me out with a glibc-error like this one: Sep 25 16:55:58 *** glibc detected *** -sh: corrupted double-linked list: 0x0004b180 *** Sep 25 16:56:11 jott: and that will show all versions? Sep 25 16:56:25 AStorm: should do. Sep 25 16:56:50 is this a hardware-problem? Sep 25 16:59:38 riot: that or miscompilation Sep 25 17:04:39 AStorm: its an almost new device with Chinook, i didn't touch anything. It worked wonderfully until yesterday. Sep 25 17:12:53 is that reproducible? Sep 25 17:13:05 wrrr... ogg-support doesn't work still Sep 25 17:13:16 hmm. yes it is Sep 25 17:13:18 no lightmediascanner0-ogg >=0.1.9 Sep 25 17:13:27 and i get a short-read when trying to backup the system using dd or tar Sep 25 17:13:33 riot: is that Chinook 2007.51? Sep 25 17:13:41 uh, possibly, i'll have a look Sep 25 17:13:43 that tar bug is known busybox issue :) Sep 25 17:13:58 (that old version of course) Sep 25 17:14:14 aah, the hostname is Nokia-N810-51-3, so i suppose, the 51 is the version? Sep 25 17:14:25 riot: on the internal 2gb card? Sep 25 17:14:45 jott: no, or, possibly, i tried to backup / Sep 25 17:14:49 jott: the default is 512 flash chip Sep 25 17:14:53 except proc, sys, etc Sep 25 17:15:27 hmmm. so, i'm gonna upgrade to diablo now, in hope that the problems will vanish. Sep 25 17:15:43 AStorm: huh? Sep 25 17:15:59 jott: I mean, the system is there Sep 25 17:16:13 the tar short-read happens with some old busybox versions Sep 25 17:16:14 256 Sep 25 17:16:19 like the one chinook uses Sep 25 17:16:23 ah, yes, sorry ;P Sep 25 17:16:26 obviously 256 MB Sep 25 17:16:27 ah ok. Sep 25 17:16:34 AStorm: still it makes me suspicious along with the glibc-errors i have Sep 25 17:16:44 this alltogether looks a little bit like a faulty flash Sep 25 17:16:53 well noting because the n810 internal 2gb has a broken partition table.. Sep 25 17:16:54 which would be.. hmm bad! Sep 25 17:17:15 yes, fix that table Sep 25 17:17:18 which may causes some weirdness.. Sep 25 17:17:31 not pointer corruption though Sep 25 17:17:32 jott: but the internal 2 GB are unrelated to the 256 MB flash, are they? Sep 25 17:17:38 riot: yes. Sep 25 17:17:39 they are Sep 25 17:19:13 evil dentists! Sep 25 17:19:18 ~lart dentists Sep 25 17:19:19 * infobot squishes dentists like a bug Sep 25 17:19:22 :D Sep 25 17:20:30 damnit Sep 25 17:20:38 yeah it needs an particular mind-set if you want to become a dentist :) Sep 25 17:20:41 still no working lightmediascanner-ogg ... Sep 25 17:20:42 hi lcuk btw :) Sep 25 17:21:00 hiya jott Sep 25 17:21:13 they have finally done some much needed work on me Sep 25 17:21:16 lcuk, go talk to k-s. Sep 25 17:21:31 k-s? Sep 25 17:21:38 lcuk: ops! Sep 25 17:21:40 :-) Sep 25 17:21:40 is k-s a dentist or just another victim? :) Sep 25 17:22:01 lcuk: I talked to GeneralAntilles at #canola about libqbase Sep 25 17:22:17 lcuk: i had some questions Sep 25 17:22:22 drop the b and i'll know what you are talking about ;) Sep 25 17:22:26 being lazy and willing to use libqbase as evas engine :-) Sep 25 17:22:43 ouch Sep 25 17:22:44 ehehe Sep 25 17:22:46 sorry Sep 25 17:22:55 its ok, just looks wrong Sep 25 17:22:57 liQbase Sep 25 17:23:09 :D excellent Sep 25 17:23:10 what's wrong? Sep 25 17:23:25 ummm guys what's the ip of n800 modem? Sep 25 17:23:40 well... my first question is: is it immediate mode rendering? Sep 25 17:24:10 (this is mostly all I need to know to check if using it for evas is possible or not) Sep 25 17:24:14 ok k-s im just about to enter a beta testing phase - im gonna put a halt on dev for the short term to clean it up and get it working as a nice end user app Sep 25 17:24:26 duh.. i misplaced my diablo-upgrade... what are the upgrade-files called like, so i can look for them? Sep 25 17:24:36 immediate mode.. hmmm i would say yes, i render directly onto a canvas then update it Sep 25 17:24:41 ok update on the osso_xterm and loading a program directly from a script. I am not getting an error about a few min of a blank screen "Internal error. Appication 'S Terminal closed." Sep 25 17:24:47 gronmayer says there's 0.1.10 in the repos... then why does ogg-support-lightmediascanner fail.... Sep 25 17:24:50 kulve: any hint? Sep 25 17:24:55 anyone know what that error typically points too? Sep 25 17:24:57 lcuk: but do you keep objects around? Sep 25 17:25:00 but it is rendered in YUV mode and not the more normal rgb Sep 25 17:25:10 lcuk: or it's draw-and-forget? Sep 25 17:25:16 the only objects are what I have created as UI elements ontop Sep 25 17:25:27 its draw and forget in the core Sep 25 17:25:39 evening Sep 25 17:25:44 hi lardman :) Sep 25 17:25:51 hey lcuk Sep 25 17:25:52 kulve: ah, it's in chinook, but not diablo Sep 25 17:25:56 I'm asking that because evas already keeps the ui objects Sep 25 17:26:15 ok, so perfect, it is possible to have liqbase backend for evas Sep 25 17:26:23 now to some doubts I have Sep 25 17:26:33 probably I could read the code and figyre out myself Sep 25 17:26:37 heh, theres always doibts Sep 25 17:26:40 but ur here and I lack time these days Sep 25 17:26:42 doubts even Sep 25 17:26:59 iwhich license is evas under? Sep 25 17:27:15 BSD :-D Sep 25 17:27:17 AStorm: canola guys should add that library to diablo. But they don't like the fact that ogg-support isn't build with the builder Sep 25 17:27:48 ~builder Sep 25 17:27:54 1 - do you handle transparency? how (extra plane, 1 alpha for 1 luminance value?) Sep 25 17:27:57 thats very nice, but you would have dual licensing issues: liqbase is gpl Sep 25 17:28:09 hmm, bot doesn't listen to me? ok, what is that new builder thing? Sep 25 17:28:19 ~upload-extras Sep 25 17:28:20 upload-extras is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Sep 25 17:28:24 lcuk: in fact it would just become gpl as you can "upgrade" bsd to gpl ;) Sep 25 17:28:28 lcuk: I don't mind, we already have qtopia backend (it's outdated) Sep 25 17:28:30 i can load a png image with alpha channel, then during the blit I can blend Sep 25 17:28:38 jott is right Sep 25 17:28:43 (at least the particular rendering backend and all derived stuff from it) Sep 25 17:28:52 lcuk: but is the image kept as argb? Sep 25 17:28:56 yes, its the derived stuff which would complicate matters Sep 25 17:28:56 or converted to yuv? Sep 25 17:29:06 ah this one Sep 25 17:29:07 technically its YUVA Sep 25 17:29:07 :) Sep 25 17:29:25 lcuk: ok, so A is another plane? same size as Y? Sep 25 17:29:32 * lcuk made up a definition for alpha channeled YUV images since none seemed to exist Sep 25 17:29:47 umm i cant remember which way round i did it Sep 25 17:29:49 gimme a mo Sep 25 17:30:18 i tried both methods - with Alpha bein full res, then alpha bein half res Sep 25 17:30:21 lcuk: no nothing complicated about it. if liqbase code is used, everything that derives from it gets gpl. the bsd code will just adapt in that case. Sep 25 17:33:19 kulve: so, I'll just cheat for now Sep 25 17:33:35 install the chinook deb directly - will it work? Sep 25 17:33:54 I haven't tried.. Sep 25 17:34:26 full res alpha channel :) Sep 25 17:34:50 lcuk: 2 - how to you handle cases where there is a hard border at some odd-position pixel Sep 25 17:35:05 ie: red and green rectangles have a border at x % 2 == 1 Sep 25 17:35:18 do you make it green, red, brown? Sep 25 17:35:20 you mena after a scaleblit Sep 25 17:35:25 mean Sep 25 17:35:33 yeah, you don't have full resolution for colors, just Y Sep 25 17:36:03 in this case would you have Cb = 0, 255 or 128? Sep 25 17:36:15 woo, successfully flashed to diablo :D Sep 25 17:38:26 i believe i blit on the even quadrant only, i dont try to do anything for the final odd pixel (each plane is blitted independently) Sep 25 17:38:41 who was whittering about sound and sound APIs yesterday? This :: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/guide-to-sound-apis.html may be interesting 8) Sep 25 17:40:30 except.... there's no real way to get gapless playback with gstreamer Sep 25 17:40:43 and it's been that way since forever Sep 25 17:40:50 * lcuk nurses his poorly mouth Sep 25 17:40:54 is that the proprietary one? Sep 25 17:42:26 hello Sep 25 17:42:41 hm. Now i'm disappointed. The Pinentry still sucks in diablo Sep 25 17:42:58 the pointless people at GStreamer still haven't added that very needed feature Sep 25 17:43:12 which *should* be simple to add unless the framework is totally broken by design Sep 25 17:43:13 did they reject your patch? Sep 25 17:43:14 though i'm very surprised about the backup-system.. nice job, there.. Sep 25 17:44:07 ive got a problem, application manager is not finding any installed apps Sep 25 17:44:14 lbt: no, it's actually said to be done in the app Sep 25 17:44:22 so, by splitting a pipeline in two Sep 25 17:44:28 one part for decoding, another playback Sep 25 17:44:52 pity gstreamer has no real queue support, or stream chaining Sep 25 17:46:31 anyway, that is easy enough to fix by splitting pipeline in two and passing buffers around by hand... or someone writing a simple "chaining" part of the stream Sep 25 17:46:47 k-s, was that all you needed to bug me about Sep 25 17:48:07 AStorm: not used it myself - and, TBH, it was more an FYI that may be useful for people looking at the various sound subsystems out there (just 'cos I caught snippets last night) Sep 25 17:48:26 lbt: the patch would be an API change Sep 25 17:48:43 GStreamer people know that doing gapless playback in it is hard Sep 25 17:51:30 hi, I am running diablo on the n800 and sometimes the wlan connection drops. when I step out of the coverage area.at this point I have to click on the wlan icon again and reactivate it. could I do it using a script ? is there a way to force to fire up the wlan. like ifup wlan0 or something ? Sep 25 17:51:37 lcuk: sorry, I was doing some stuff here. Sep 25 17:51:55 about the only GStreamer player that does gapless is... Songbird Sep 25 17:52:00 and that's ultra-heavy Sep 25 17:52:12 benno2: That's odd. Mine auto-connects to known access points when they're in range. Sep 25 17:52:30 benno2: check autosearch interval Sep 25 17:52:36 thats ok, ks its a very basic library built more for speed than quality, but obviously it kicks ass :) Sep 25 17:52:39 lcuk: how you blit to the even only? Sep 25 17:52:40 it's in control panel, default is 10 minutes Sep 25 17:52:54 benno2: so does mine :) Sep 25 17:53:04 AStorm: thanks for your advice bro. I broke it down and it ended up being just very sensative Sep 25 17:53:12 lcuk: rectangles: red=(0, 0, 3, 1), green=(3, 0, 3, 1) should share the same color (Cr) pixel Sep 25 17:53:13 AStorm: works now. Thank you Sep 25 17:53:27 k-s the blitter i have prefers to blit 32bit values, so for an 800 pixel wide blit it copies 200 longs. then the color planes - theres 400 pixels of data, it does 100longs Sep 25 17:53:56 you'd have 3 color values there: red (cr=255), unknown and green (cr=0) Sep 25 17:53:58 it will simply overwrite the color pixel Sep 25 17:54:14 with the latest blit value - unless of course its doing the alpha blitting Sep 25 17:54:15 sneakret: sneakret, lbt: I have an app open which constantly transmits data and when out of the coverage range it hangs (this is normal), when i reenter the coverage area (after 10-20secs) sometimes it reconnect, sometimes not. you have to use the icon to activate wlan again. Sep 25 17:54:20 lcuk goes for speed not quality :P Sep 25 17:54:49 AStorm: 10minutes or 5minutes it too long, I need something like 10-20secs. any idea how to force it ? Sep 25 17:54:55 indeed - but speed was of vital importance to the feel of the app Sep 25 17:54:56 I took my tablet out today and it's still in my coat pocket. I can ssh to it just fine. Sep 25 17:55:11 yer, nothing wrong about it. just a matter of priorities ... Sep 25 17:55:11 benno2: autoreconnect is an option of the connection itself Sep 25 17:55:14 lcuk: I see, and I have no good solution for that Sep 25 17:55:27 but it will try only a few times :) Sep 25 17:55:28 i dont need a solution :) Sep 25 17:55:28 lcuk: so I was checking and willing to get a "GREAT" idea Sep 25 17:55:31 lcuk: ehehehe Sep 25 17:55:39 AStorm: you mean the AP config? Sep 25 17:55:43 lbt: yup Sep 25 17:55:57 AStorm: yes, but do you happen to know if I can force the interval to be lower (10-20secs) by modifying some config file instead of using the gui ? Sep 25 17:56:04 lcuk: I had lots of similar issues with software-16 for evas, had to simplify stuff in order to get performance correct... for instance: it is impossible to blend white over white and get white! :-D Sep 25 17:56:08 when i reduce the blit down to byte optimized only (as the scaleblit is) i lose a large percentage of speed Sep 25 17:56:18 heh Sep 25 17:56:19 I didn't realise - I'm using openWRT or something (dunno - it just works and it's OSS) Sep 25 17:56:42 we will have to talk more when my mouth isnt so sore Sep 25 17:57:03 sounds like we have both had a similar marathon :) Sep 25 17:57:04 lcuk: ok, seems good Sep 25 17:57:08 * lbt wonder's if lcuk is tongue-typing... Sep 25 17:57:17 lcuk: until I invest some more time investigating Sep 25 17:57:30 kinda like touch typing but wetter Sep 25 17:57:31 lbt: uhm... AP config in n810 of course :> == connection config Sep 25 17:57:31 * jott inflicts pain on lbt and sees how he types then :D Sep 25 17:57:34 im not a pierson's puppeteer Sep 25 17:57:49 now back to work Sep 25 17:57:52 lcuk: thanks for your time Sep 25 17:57:58 AStorm: OK - thanks, wasn't sure Sep 25 17:58:00 no prob :) Sep 25 17:58:12 the funny thing is that I had this idea, for another reason, for evas Sep 25 17:58:21 jott: he's only sad 'cos bacon is hard on a sore mouth! Sep 25 17:58:30 :( no bacon for me Sep 25 17:58:34 see Sep 25 17:58:41 they brought the filling stuff practically by the barrow load Sep 25 17:58:46 it was primarily to avoid RGB->YUV conversions for Emotion (which uses xine and evas) Sep 25 17:59:02 rgb->yuv isnt so bad if its a one off Sep 25 17:59:04 secondly for the blit performance Sep 25 17:59:14 lcuk: it's all piling up though - you can have double-decker butties when it gets better :D Sep 25 17:59:25 :D oh yerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Sep 25 17:59:27 lcuk: if we do rgb->yuv we would not be able to play fullscreen video on n8x0 Sep 25 17:59:38 not even because of conversion Sep 25 17:59:43 but bandwidth Sep 25 17:59:44 but isnt most video stored natively at yuv? Sep 25 17:59:49 back l8r, got to do real work... Sep 25 17:59:54 lcuk: yes, it is Sep 25 18:00:06 lcuk: but evas engines (so far) are mostly ARGB premul Sep 25 18:00:11 its like JPEGs - i can access and load them faster because i dont have a YUV->RGB conversion Sep 25 18:00:16 lcuk: so you have to convert videos to that Sep 25 18:00:56 so why not use a YUV layer for playing native videos in? Sep 25 18:01:07 ala mplayer? Sep 25 18:01:14 lcuk: we dod that :-) Sep 25 18:01:14 because you need a yuv engine for compositing :) Sep 25 18:01:23 lcuk: but another layer = not easy to blend Sep 25 18:01:41 if you want to blend Sep 25 18:01:47 either convert to YUV or RGB Sep 25 18:01:50 so you can currently read->convert->blend quick enough for video files? Sep 25 18:01:56 converting to RGB is no-go Sep 25 18:02:16 lcuk: no, we blit to an XV window, that is on top of evas window Sep 25 18:02:40 good, do you blit in 32bit blocks (or more using SIMD) Sep 25 18:03:13 cos if you manage to get it working you will gain incredible speedups on blit :) Sep 25 18:04:12 you could just use memcpy after some alignment or use ssvbs armv6 optimized memcpy that handles alignment :) Sep 25 18:04:21 i tested with memcpy Sep 25 18:04:25 and with bytes Sep 25 18:04:29 and words Sep 25 18:04:31 and longs Sep 25 18:04:39 and extra asm versions (but they failed) Sep 25 18:05:11 lcuk: we do Sep 25 18:05:28 lcuk: we're basically bound to bus bandwidth Sep 25 18:05:35 memcpy gave a speed test result in my app of 3.5 32bit gave 8.0 Sep 25 18:05:49 http://code.google.com/p/arm1136j-s/ Sep 25 18:06:05 because of the overheads with calling the function - rows of data are small and theres lots of them so the overhead counts Sep 25 18:06:06 these were the tests we did Sep 25 18:06:20 ahhh yes ive looked Sep 25 18:06:27 ah that where yours not ssvbs. Sep 25 18:06:29 that was what i couldnt get to work ;) Sep 25 18:06:44 think its the thumb mode or something im in, but it locked no matter how i tried Sep 25 18:06:56 ah no ssvb in headers :) Sep 25 18:07:17 it was meant to be usable with omap1710 as well (770) Sep 25 18:07:57 yer, i think its just the mode i am in, but everything i tried just didnt work: i added an extra 64bit section to the blitter and attempted to move using double's Sep 25 18:07:57 lcuk: yeah depends on the width of the image of course. (nearly) fullscreen video blitting could be faster with memcpy though. Sep 25 18:08:09 k-s: then do ifdefs Sep 25 18:08:11 still 400 calls to it jott Sep 25 18:08:21 the new quick memcpy is much faster Sep 25 18:08:26 or SIMD Sep 25 18:08:48 * lcuk drooled at SIMD but gave up trying to get it working Sep 25 18:08:53 yeah but your relying on gcc 3.4.4 optimizations for tight loops :P Sep 25 18:08:56 it wasnt important at the time Sep 25 18:09:29 especially now since i cant use any: strechblit is byte optimized and cant use it, lines are bytes, etc etc Sep 25 18:10:13 straight glyph blitting works really well as does full image blitting, i dont have any issues there Sep 25 18:11:17 heh, jott i noticed the speed tests were coming out really badly for a while after i upgraded - i realised after that the inline that was there was no longer being honoured because the base function which calls it many times was outside the module Sep 25 18:11:37 AStorm: we use the new glibc memcpy Sep 25 18:11:47 * lcuk scratched his head at that one Sep 25 18:11:50 which is slow still :) Sep 25 18:12:00 AStorm: and about ifdefs, patches are welcome. I doubt it will impact much on real use cases Sep 25 18:12:20 well, it may improve FPS on full screen updates Sep 25 18:12:31 lcuk: still keep in mind that you are doing not much else atm. consider the load caused by video/audio decoding. so you still want to grab every extra cpu cycle you could optimize :) Sep 25 18:13:13 yer jott, totally understood - but from a personal perspective i had the performance i need and can create the things i wanna build Sep 25 18:13:27 from my POV, the biggest difference here is using less data Sep 25 18:13:30 yeah. WORKSFORME bug closed :) Sep 25 18:13:37 if it becomes a problem ill look back on it - but i could spend forever optimizing Sep 25 18:13:51 we're about the bus limit already Sep 25 18:13:57 k-s, its not THAT Much less data Sep 25 18:14:13 it's a HUGE constraint on the visual part, but it's less data Sep 25 18:14:19 it is Sep 25 18:14:24 and some operations are cheaper Sep 25 18:14:24 you should get tearfree technically by updating 75% of the screen Sep 25 18:14:29 many rect fill become memset() Sep 25 18:14:36 if it was solely the bus Sep 25 18:14:54 lcuk: yeah, but of course you're not doing useless color fills all the time Sep 25 18:15:08 but a rectfill cant use generic memset unless its the whole plane Sep 25 18:15:12 lcuk: throw in a designer and eveything becomes multi-layered semi-transparent effect bling Sep 25 18:15:28 lcuk: you can use rectfill for span Sep 25 18:15:34 hah nice catch-phrase k-s :) Sep 25 18:15:35 lol Sep 25 18:16:01 jott: really... try to work with marcelo (handful), it's hard to keep performance with the desired effect Sep 25 18:16:03 k-s - then tell the designers there are constraints on an embedded device :) Sep 25 18:16:09 it's not bad, as the visuals are fine Sep 25 18:16:23 yer it looks sweet :) Sep 25 18:16:24 but, you have to kill yourself to figure out how to make it fast Sep 25 18:16:25 k-s: sure. not arguing .. :) Sep 25 18:16:39 so real :) Sep 25 18:16:40 lcuk: are you kidding, huh? Sep 25 18:17:13 Just think, it'll all mostly be irrelevant when the next device rolls around. :P Sep 25 18:17:17 no im not actually, its designers that have killed the vista experience - same thing, bling overkill makes for a sluggish unrewarding experience Sep 25 18:17:32 800x480x2 = 768kb per screen in 16bpp mode Sep 25 18:17:47 lcuk: are you working with 8 bits components? Sep 25 18:17:50 yes Sep 25 18:18:37 576k for yuv Sep 25 18:18:46 not a huge difference, yeah Sep 25 18:18:49 so 800*480 + 400*240 + 400*240 = 576000 == 3/4 of your bandwidth Sep 25 18:18:59 75% Sep 25 18:19:25 plus overhead for yuv=>yuv blitting by xv :p Sep 25 18:19:25 don't forget to add some chaff to that number Sep 25 18:19:32 so - shouldnt it be possible if it was bus only to update 600*480 or something and leave some static Sep 25 18:19:33 so it's actually more than that Sep 25 18:19:51 AStorm, XV adds overlay these guys dont have Sep 25 18:19:56 GAN: Actually we do not know how relevant it will all be Sep 25 18:20:05 jott: ? Sep 25 18:20:09 the planar YUV objects are converted to an interleaved format before sending Sep 25 18:20:14 ouch Sep 25 18:20:25 GAN: lcuk is using XV extension afaik - that one will still be available at the new device Sep 25 18:20:39 k-s: the lcd controller uses a different yuv format than xv, hence xomap converts the plane based yuv from xv to the tight format the lcd controller uses. Sep 25 18:20:40 The bus issues are all gone, though. Sep 25 18:20:50 and it will be faster than anything else still :) Sep 25 18:20:57 jott: no way to bypass that? Sep 25 18:20:59 GAN800, faster and faster :) Sep 25 18:21:07 k-s: no, only by using framebuffer. Sep 25 18:21:13 (afaik) Sep 25 18:21:14 GAN: hipefully =) Sep 25 18:21:16 jott: /dev/fb0? Sep 25 18:21:33 k-s: yer, with omapfb extensions for updating etc. Sep 25 18:21:42 jott: ok, doable Sep 25 18:21:49 RST38h, you can play with the bus-issue-free hardware right now. :) Sep 25 18:21:52 k-s - its technically possible to write directly in the interleaved format and write directly, its a last ditch attempt which would gain even more speed theoretically, but the added complexity of the blitting routines would mean its not even considered for now Sep 25 18:21:52 mplayer does that already Sep 25 18:22:06 k-s: yes. Sep 25 18:22:27 * lcuk wrote notes on how to impliment the algo a while ago Sep 25 18:22:31 e Sep 25 18:22:39 ok, i need to digest most of that, think and who knows some day, try it out Sep 25 18:22:41 eheheh Sep 25 18:22:44 lcuk: depends on the data structures. it's definitely not as straight forward :) Sep 25 18:22:45 no time for that now :-) Sep 25 18:23:05 lcuk: so, what is holding up the true 30 FPS? :) Sep 25 18:23:19 yer k-s, its a tough problem - you would gain in some respects but almost certainly lose in others Sep 25 18:23:27 bandwidth Sep 25 18:23:52 without doing ANYTHING major (just updating a single tiny corner) the refresh is no faster Sep 25 18:23:57 hi peoples. my n810 seems to have "lost" usb connection. Nothing gets registered on the pc when I plug in the usb cable in the device. what to look for ? Sep 25 18:24:02 however at lower resolutions the refresh rate goes way up Sep 25 18:24:43 ie, i get 25fps if i do a full screen blit, i stil lget 25fps if i do nothing Sep 25 18:24:55 but at 640*480 i get 33fps Sep 25 18:25:06 ah, so vsync is? Sep 25 18:25:12 but if done right you will be *always* faster using the native format and the framebuffer instead of xv. Sep 25 18:25:21 GAN: Do not make me buy *another* dev board. I have got a box full of them at the balcony Sep 25 18:25:46 No longer fun, unless somebody is paying for developing on it... Sep 25 18:25:56 otoh xv eases X11 integration :) Sep 25 18:25:57 probably astorm, but i never used to wait for that when i was doing and it doesnt skyrocket when doing nothing Sep 25 18:26:17 RST38h, then don't. My point was, is that there's really no 'hopefully' about it. Sep 25 18:26:51 the anaesthetic is wearing off, this is becoming unbearable, bbl Sep 25 18:26:52 (and xv ensures compatibility with other devices) Sep 25 18:26:53 lcuk: well, 800*480*16*30 is 175 Mb Sep 25 18:27:08 this might be a bit too much ;P Sep 25 18:27:22 k-s nice talkin with you (and you as well jott and others) Sep 25 18:27:24 cyas in a bit Sep 25 18:27:31 25 FPS is 150 Mb Sep 25 18:28:27 GAN: You mean, omap3 is known to support 800x480 glue-free? Sep 25 18:28:53 RST38h: given they don't use some broken lcd controller again :) Sep 25 18:29:13 but yeah omap3 can handle it fine. Sep 25 18:29:44 jott: well they had to use it because omap2 couldn't do 800x480 Sep 25 18:29:49 yer. Sep 25 18:29:53 OMAP3430 can handle up to 1024x768 without issue Sep 25 18:30:09 still nokias engineers are known to make some strange decisions from time to time :) Sep 25 18:30:13 Which, again, was my point. :) Sep 25 18:31:04 jott: look at the bright side: they do it less often than nintendo! Sep 25 18:35:18 is that because they release less devices? ;P Sep 25 18:35:45 "More and more, people here look back to the era of harsh Taliban rule from 1996 to 2001, describing it as a time of security and peace." Sep 25 18:36:12 AStorm: Depends on whether you count in end products or in components =) Sep 25 18:37:23 AStorm: Nokia definitely releases moredifferent end products (handsets) but Nintendo often releases a new cartridge type that has weird hardware customers have no idea about Sep 25 18:38:58 definitely :) Sep 25 19:13:57 hey everyone thanks for your help Sep 25 19:14:03 I have fixed my bugs in the program Sep 25 19:14:08 WOOT WOOT!! thanks again Sep 25 19:21:21 * lardman is seriously thinking about getting a TomTom Sep 25 19:21:34 a tamtam? Sep 25 19:21:44 isn't that a biscuit? Sep 25 19:21:51 kind of a drum Sep 25 19:21:52 i think Sep 25 19:21:56 oh right Sep 25 19:22:27 lardman why? Sep 25 19:22:41 had hassles navigating today Sep 25 19:22:51 hmm, spelling there? Sep 25 19:23:02 lardman: I loved tomtom on a ppc. replaced it with a garmin nuvi and regretted ever since :/ Sep 25 19:23:18 yeah, one of my mates has a Garmin and it's crap Sep 25 19:23:22 imho Sep 25 19:23:28 why is the garmin crap? Sep 25 19:23:42 it send him down every small road it can find :) Sep 25 19:24:10 yeah, might be something to do with the setup, but he says not Sep 25 19:24:16 the maps that came with suck lumpy pieces of shit and it recalculates the route every 10 mins Sep 25 19:24:28 ah okay Sep 25 19:25:19 I'd still like something open source, but seeing the lack of roads in Northampton shown on osm, I'm worried Sep 25 19:25:34 + the simulation feature of it doesn't have a speed control. let's just say i sat through a 2 hour journey from london to halifax... Sep 25 19:26:10 lardman then contribute them Sep 25 19:26:15 *duck and hide* Sep 25 19:26:29 indeed, I don't live there though, just had to visit Sep 25 19:26:32 btw, hey KotCzarny , haven't seen you for a while Sep 25 19:27:31 I'd still like to look at the mapping/routing stuff, just need something that works (TM ;) when I need it Sep 25 19:27:59 if only the n900 were here - then I could justify Google routing updates + maemo mapper Sep 25 19:28:05 second hand tamtam for now then ? Sep 25 19:28:13 at least..it works. Sep 25 19:28:14 lardman: maybe take a look at roadmap or navit. Sep 25 19:28:37 jott: still use osm data backend, so if they lack the data there's no helping it Sep 25 19:28:38 besides osm they support some commercial maps Sep 25 19:28:53 yeah, Garmin, but no routing with navit afaict Sep 25 19:29:00 ah i thought so. Sep 25 19:30:21 melmoth: yeah, probably get a new one, have road speed limits built in I think - signs always appear when you're doing something else like navigating a roundabout/sign Sep 25 19:31:20 if i had a car, and had to drive, that would be my choice too. Sep 25 19:31:28 luckily, i do not have one :-) Sep 25 19:32:00 I thought it might motivate me to write something, but.... Sep 25 19:32:11 still interested, just need something that works, etc. Sep 25 19:32:54 talking about wich, i hope to finish the graph representation of paris in C this week end. so i can compare the memory usage with python Sep 25 19:33:14 but my C is awfull, and i write really slow (have to learn at the same time) Sep 25 19:33:46 then, may be, being able to use the same A* routing thingy, and may be have something usable in town Sep 25 19:33:46 lardman: well you could add routing support for garmin maps in navit. if it's missing, there are probably quite some people happy when it's done :) Sep 25 19:36:05 melmoth: well thanks for your work, C it is I think at least for the maemo-mapper backend Sep 25 19:36:19 jott: yeah, I don;t have any Garmin maps though, otherwise I might be tempted Sep 25 19:36:51 If I could work out the TeleAtlas format on the other hand (assuming that's the TomTom one)... but that sounds like lots of work! Sep 25 19:37:12 a proper maemomapper backend would require much more work (i think soemthing like 2 level in city level and inter city one). Sep 25 19:37:53 are third party application using such data allowed ? Sep 25 19:38:08 melmoth: probably not allowed Sep 25 19:38:29 melmoth: yeah, I'm sure it would be some work, interesting to work out how to do it though Sep 25 19:41:57 hmm, /me wonders about getting a usb-vga adaptor Sep 25 19:42:25 I see the cheap ones are sis chipset too, just wonder whether I'll get time to hack at it before the new device is out Sep 25 19:44:15 fyi http://www.xengda.com.tw/en_products_u2v_8mb.htm Sep 25 19:44:41 apparently this is the one maplin are selling, which looks like lots of the others, so probably all the same chipset Sep 25 19:48:20 so what's the cheapest one you found in europe, lardman? Sep 25 19:49:00 I guess somewhere around £120 Sep 25 19:49:02 * jott looks forward to 1st december where import allowance is increased to 150 euro :) Sep 25 19:49:07 for a latest TomTom One Sep 25 19:49:30 :) so not too far off at the current exchange rate! Sep 25 19:49:57 * lardman will probably see who's offering deals, tmc would be useful too Sep 25 19:49:58 does this import allowance also apply in the uk? or just "euro" states? Sep 25 19:50:13 no idea, our import regs are rather opaque Sep 25 19:50:25 they tend to just charge if they find out, afaict Sep 25 19:51:24 well there should be some threshold (in germany it's currently 22 euro afair) that is free of charge. Sep 25 19:51:47 this will apparently be increased by some eu regulations to 150 euro in december. Sep 25 19:52:15 rg270edu Sep 25 19:52:22 thanks for the password :P Sep 25 19:52:28 yeah Sep 25 19:52:33 still the nick :) goddamn mac osx Sep 25 19:55:43 at least I am dumb enough to guess the wrong pass :) Sep 25 19:59:42 handful: we believe you, really! ;) Sep 25 20:00:02 :) it was really, but this was the internettablet talk one Sep 25 20:00:08 :) Sep 25 20:00:11 an 8db sd card is supported on the n810 right? Sep 25 20:00:16 quick! to itt! :) Sep 25 20:00:23 hehe I've changed hehee Sep 25 20:00:23 lol Sep 25 20:00:32 :) dumb but not too slow hehe Sep 25 20:00:42 Garmin works great in the states. Sep 25 20:00:42 damn, I was going to go abuse Ryan on your behalf ;) Sep 25 20:00:56 how are you anyway GAN800? Sep 25 20:01:18 lol Sep 25 20:01:28 GAN800: might just be the firmware or some setting, but it's put me off for sure Sep 25 20:01:31 Just waking up from a short nap on a fine Thursday afternoon and feeling thirsty. . . . Sep 25 20:01:50 * lardman is consuming wine, been a long day, Northampton and back Sep 25 20:02:07 Likely a setting, you cam configure it to prefer small roads and such in navigation options. Sep 25 20:02:30 I did enquire as to whether that was the problem, and was told *NO*. :D Sep 25 20:02:58 lol Sep 25 20:03:09 Probably is the problem, then. : Sep 25 20:03:11 P Sep 25 20:03:47 true :) Sep 25 20:04:11 I do think it has issues with re-routing though, apparently something to do with time-of-day Sep 25 20:05:17 doesn't appear to keep the current location vs predicted (wrt time) calculate until you hit that segment, etc. Sep 25 20:05:29 hmm, that doesn't make sense Sep 25 20:05:46 * Jaffa has finished off a (small) bottle of wine this evening. Sep 25 20:05:53 Now to do the code review I *didn't* do earlier Sep 25 20:06:05 Jaffa: so you understand my text?! :) Sep 25 20:06:20 make Sep 25 20:06:27 oops, wrong window Sep 25 20:06:39 lard that's less destructive :) Sep 25 20:08:00 hmm, navit svn doesn't compile Sep 25 20:08:08 handful: yeah we can probably feed john the ripper with your password scheme to hack all your accounts :P Sep 25 20:08:42 lardman: actually, yes - Id o :-) Sep 25 20:08:49 jott: yeah , I changed just 2, so probably a lot of sites will use it :) heuhuehue Sep 25 20:09:02 Jaffa: good stuff :) Sep 25 20:09:42 * jott drinks a club-mate to keep the c-base spirit :) Sep 25 20:10:07 my uni sells Ubuntu cola! Sep 25 20:10:14 quite surprised Sep 25 20:10:31 is it legal? Sep 25 20:10:39 hi qwerty Sep 25 20:10:53 hi Sep 25 20:10:56 lol, the two in the same sentence ;) Sep 25 20:10:57 lardman: well check your target audience :) Sep 25 20:11:14 there's a thread on ubuntu cola @ itt Sep 25 20:11:30 * lardman needs sugar-free Sep 25 20:11:52 fft Sep 25 20:12:04 aspartam will kill you faster than sugar Sep 25 20:12:05 Fourier? Sep 25 20:12:06 :) Sep 25 20:12:14 look for xubuntu cola that's probably sugar free :P Sep 25 20:12:17 ah, I lack Insulin Sep 25 20:12:20 Why do people hard-wrap in the wiki? <_< Sep 25 20:12:25 ahm Sep 25 20:12:39 brb, reboot Sep 25 20:13:13 argh, even the release source won't compile! Sep 25 20:13:28 yuck. Sep 25 20:13:38 on your host or in sbox? Sep 25 20:13:43 sbox Sep 25 20:13:53 some Python binding error Sep 25 20:14:15 arr.. Sep 25 20:14:27 sbox is somewhat broken.. Sep 25 20:14:34 sorry, my fault Sep 25 20:14:46 some error compiling the python bindings Sep 25 20:14:46 just blame the wine ;) Sep 25 20:14:53 yeah :) Sep 25 20:15:17 make sure you use the arm python. Sep 25 20:15:32 hmm skipping incompatible /scratchbox/tools/lib/python2.3/config/libpython2.3.a when searching for -lpython2.3 Sep 25 20:15:41 (i.e. replace python with python2.5 everywhere) Sep 25 20:16:02 * lardman wonders if he's upgraded Sep 25 20:16:15 is it apt-get dist-upgrade ? Sep 25 20:16:19 Who was it that decided we could use the word "flashing" in Sep 25 20:16:22 na it takes the redirected python (ie. x86 python) Sep 25 20:16:24 ~flashing? Sep 25 20:16:25 flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 25 20:16:29 <_< Sep 25 20:16:38 thus it can compile arm based bindings.. Sep 25 20:16:42 can't Sep 25 20:16:50 Please look at these google results and tell me that was a good decision. . . . http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=flashing+n800 Sep 25 20:17:02 jott: ah, ok Sep 25 20:17:15 jott: I'll look for a configure switch to disable the bindings then Sep 25 20:19:31 Hi there Sep 25 20:19:39 Hi jott! :) Sep 25 20:19:44 hi gnuton Sep 25 20:19:46 hello gnuton Sep 25 20:19:51 yo Sep 25 20:19:56 :D Sep 25 20:20:08 hmm, can't see anything, will have to do a web search Sep 25 20:21:43 can anyone do a sanity check on my python command real fast? i am calling os.execvp( 'sudo', ['sudo', 'program', '-s', '-f', '/tmp/config']) is that correct? I have been trolling goodle but cannot get a good answer for when using sudo to call a program with command args Sep 25 20:22:40 malikul why you need this? maybee your app design is not that good Sep 25 20:23:38 woglinde: is a background process that when triggered will call an existing program given a set of arguements. Sep 25 20:23:56 runs on the nokia n810 Sep 25 20:24:17 malikul what is your app doing? Sep 25 20:24:18 why is sudo part of the argument too ? Sep 25 20:24:27 init.d controls running as user instead of root Sep 25 20:24:37 sudo will only work in r&d mode Sep 25 20:25:17 sudo is required because the programs being called use root perms. I updated the /etc/sudoers and included and I am using gainroot Sep 25 20:25:41 malikul so you will do not distribut it? Sep 25 20:26:13 yeah this is for my development systems. speed up configuration while testing Sep 25 20:26:39 woglinde: original guy working on it wrote in python...and Iam no python master. :-( Sep 25 20:32:59 woglinde: so did I write the python command correct? Sep 25 20:33:23 woglinde: und danka woglinde for your help Sep 25 20:35:20 malikul: I use sudo in python this way: command =["sudo",self.startcmd,"--daemon","--writepid",self.pid_file,"--config",self.conf_file] Sep 25 20:35:23 Popen(command, shell=False, stdin=PIPE, stdout=None, cwd=self.conf_dir) Sep 25 20:35:47 or this way: call(['sudo','/usr/libexec/openvpn-applet-helper.py', 'delete', f]) Sep 25 20:36:03 yours could be correct too ;) Sep 25 20:37:43 mikkov_: thanks I will change the command and see how it works Sep 25 20:39:18 malikul: actually, my way isn't exactly what execvp does (just read the documentation) Sep 25 20:54:00 * RST38h is looking at Knol. What a collection of bullshit... Sep 25 20:56:34 Like this pearl: http://knol.google.com/k/kathleen-walker/personhood/1i8eo9yaqmlb5/5# Sep 25 20:57:13 * qwerty12_N800 wants google knob Sep 25 20:59:17 connected to a cattle prod no doubt? Sep 25 21:00:05 knol's article on ntsc isn't even correct... Sep 25 21:00:22 Awesome Sep 25 21:00:55 General: wait until you see an article on nuclear weapons Sep 25 21:01:21 http://knol.google.com/k/jahangir-vahid/nuclear-weapons/12lkc2gtf2u7n/3# Sep 25 21:07:34 hum looks accurate to me. haha jk Sep 25 21:08:41 hmm, apparently the confgigure script still finds python2.3 Sep 25 21:09:35 lardman: no --with-python= switch or the like? Sep 25 21:09:37 lardman: what are you trying to install ? Sep 25 21:09:44 navit Sep 25 21:09:49 is there a way to add a certificate to the list found in the wlan connectivity settings when setting up a wireless network using wpa with eap? i went into the certificates menu in the control panel and trusted the Thawte Premium certificate for wlan (i believe it was already trusted) but am still unable to select a certificate when setting up a wireless connection Sep 25 21:09:54 qwerty12_N800: looking to override it now Sep 25 21:10:16 navit is in python ? Sep 25 21:11:15 no, it has Python bindings which don't want to compile Sep 25 21:11:15 * qwerty12_N800 wishes emesene wasn't in python :( Sep 25 21:12:04 crapy thing, even if I override the env vars it still fails Sep 25 21:12:30 lardman: did you play with SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE ? Sep 25 21:12:39 * qwerty12_N800 edits configure script directly. dirty, I know but hey Sep 25 21:12:49 no, means little to me I'm afraid Sep 25 21:12:52 i once had to use that to 'override' the scracthbox idea about wich swig version it has to use Sep 25 21:13:04 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/37695 Sep 25 21:13:23 qwerty12_N800: well the configure script finds python, I'd have to edit a number of Makefiles :( Sep 25 21:13:57 :( Sep 25 21:14:39 mpd = king Sep 25 21:14:39 I don't know why it still finds python2.3 Sep 25 21:15:09 /scratchbox/tools/lib/python2.3 Sep 25 21:16:57 lardman: i had exactly the same issue with swig, it kept using the scratchbox one, even though i needed the environment to use another one.Changing path did not help Sep 25 21:17:04 using SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE did Sep 25 21:17:23 yeah, I read your ml link, too late in the evening to work that out :) Sep 25 21:17:33 thanks though, I'll look at it tomorrow Sep 25 21:18:53 anyway, night all Sep 25 21:20:53 oops, just realized this is the wrong channel. is there a maemo support channel? Sep 25 21:21:15 hmmm, support..sort of :) Sep 25 21:21:30 maemo talkabout channel :) Sep 25 21:24:21 what package is xdpyinfo in? Sep 25 21:24:47 none Sep 25 21:24:51 compile yourself Sep 25 21:24:54 :) Sep 25 21:25:25 it's part of x.org but most of the utils are left out Sep 25 21:26:44 is the xdamage extension part of maemo X? Sep 25 21:27:02 thats all i really want to know Sep 25 21:38:46 good nite Sep 25 21:40:44 mikkov_: hey I just finished reading the documentation. I dont have my build environment to test. I choose execvp because I want to execute a command line program (this happens to be a separate c program) and have it run as its own process...completely separate from the process already running. From the docs is looks like Popen and call would not be the correct command to choose. but what about spawnvp? Also, do you have any recommen Sep 25 21:40:44 dations? Sep 25 21:59:12 hey qole found your way back to irc, eh? :) Sep 25 21:59:52 only when I need help :D Sep 25 22:01:47 begging anyone: is there a way to speed up loop0 access? Sep 25 22:01:57 Beat it with a stick. Sep 25 22:02:47 Switch to a real partition Sep 25 22:03:26 set your cpufreq governor to performance? :) Sep 25 22:03:47 you know, mount /media/mmc1/file.img /opt -o loop,noatime Sep 25 22:03:54 hey lardman just tried navit. seems to compile fine here when replacing python with python2.5 in configure.in Sep 25 22:04:15 is there something i could renice? Sep 25 22:04:34 mmcqd *possibly* Sep 25 22:06:11 qole: Do you see a difference between loop performance and direct partition? There should not be a measurable difference. Sep 25 22:06:27 do you use a 48mhz kernel? Sep 25 22:06:50 (as in patched sd/mmc driver) Sep 25 22:08:52 HUGE difference, 3x slower Sep 25 22:09:39 I want a solution for average users w/ normal kernel Sep 25 22:11:17 I am using loop0 which is just 'there'... can I set up a /dev/loopX with better performance? Sep 25 22:11:18 i want a pony! Sep 25 22:11:41 i don't think so. Sep 25 22:12:10 or maybe my img file can be optimized somehow? Sep 25 22:13:00 mmh. i assume you use ext2/3 atm? Sep 25 22:13:16 yes Sep 25 22:14:05 ext2 image file sitting on the fat32 mmc card Sep 25 22:15:25 soo off topic is a jetta a chick car? Sep 25 22:15:29 GA: just tested, "beating with a stick" didn't speed anything up. Sep 25 22:19:18 matan: why do you say there should not be a measurable difference? Sep 25 22:22:49 The jetta is a chick car. But so is a miata. Sep 25 22:22:58 I have a miata. Sep 25 22:23:30 haha Sep 25 22:24:20 I just totaled my car...can trade in at vw for like 2g for parts. so I have the choice between jetta or golf Sep 25 22:24:27 and miata is awesome for handling Sep 25 22:28:47 seems to me that a "chick car" is better for picking up chicks anyway Sep 25 22:31:37 yeah, to go shopping with them Sep 25 22:31:40 depends on which types of chicks you want to pick up i guess ;) Sep 25 22:32:52 yeah there's a whole class of girls I classify as "jeep chicks" Sep 25 22:33:03 O.o Sep 25 22:33:07 hahahaahhaa Sep 25 22:33:10 4wd chicks? Sep 25 22:33:42 no jeep chicks aren't necessarilyy 4WD chicks Sep 25 22:33:59 impostors! Sep 25 22:34:26 but they're more fun than Jetta chicks ;) Sep 25 22:34:50 depends.. Sep 25 22:34:59 on ones definition of fun :) Sep 25 22:37:14 hey I might be a jetta "chick" soon :-( Sep 25 22:37:17 but it is a nice car Sep 25 22:37:46 Right, you might enjoy shoe shopping, so then a Jetta chick is for you Sep 25 22:39:34 make sure you know how to use "flirty" and "strappy" in a sentence regarding footwear Sep 25 22:39:50 strappy? Sep 25 22:39:54 sounds perverted Sep 25 22:40:14 haha Sep 25 22:40:21 yeah, see, that's not gonna do for a Jetta chick Sep 25 22:40:29 what the hell is flirty foot wear? Sep 25 22:40:33 mmm Sep 25 22:40:36 feet Sep 25 22:40:38 ;) Sep 25 22:41:28 http://hosefeetstudio.com/images/nude4.jpg Sep 25 22:41:32 this one qualifies Sep 25 22:41:35 i guess Sep 25 22:41:39 sfw Sep 25 22:41:39 :rollseyes: Sep 25 22:42:00 could use some photoshop though Sep 25 22:42:12 quite some time ago a friend of mine had a 2nd generation jetta. we managed to drive it with 9 people in (and on) it :> Sep 25 22:42:26 jott: is that legal? Sep 25 22:42:27 ;) Sep 25 22:42:40 hmm i highly doubt it :) Sep 25 22:42:51 haha Sep 25 22:42:53 any bodies in the trunk? Sep 25 22:42:55 :> Sep 25 22:42:55 I think I'll try jffs2, it might be faster than ext2; just gotta figure out how to mount it Sep 25 22:43:02 and yeah that def qualifies a flirty foot wear Sep 25 22:43:06 seems to involve making a node Sep 25 22:43:09 qole: on sd? better not Sep 25 22:43:18 unless it's a small partition Sep 25 22:43:27 KotCzarny: haha tbh, i can't remember. we could have probably invited one more :) Sep 25 22:43:28 and even then it's a bad ideq Sep 25 22:43:31 (or two) Sep 25 22:43:31 *idea Sep 25 22:45:01 sigh, is there nothing I can do to speed up the image file access? Sep 25 22:45:17 it would probably be saner to just script something with gparted to resize the main partition and add a native ext2 one :) Sep 25 22:45:36 it is at least 2x slower than a standard partition Sep 25 22:45:50 qole: raid ? Sep 25 22:45:51 :> Sep 25 22:45:53 what class of sd are you using? Sep 25 22:46:20 that can someitmes make a sizable difference Sep 25 22:46:39 class 6 but this is for my "Easy Debian", I have no idea who will be using it Sep 25 22:47:09 gotcha Sep 25 22:47:12 The image file (mount -o loop) is just so very very slow Sep 25 22:47:22 qole: i would look into a guided solution in repartitioning the card .. Sep 25 22:47:28 like the ubuntu installer Sep 25 22:47:50 That's my future plan, when I merge with Deblet Sep 25 22:47:57 quole: add noatime ? Sep 25 22:48:16 I was just hoping there was some way to squeeze more speed out of the loop file system Sep 25 22:48:17 -o loop,noatime Sep 25 22:48:25 yes, doing that already Sep 25 22:48:42 make a native partition then Sep 25 22:48:49 renicing something, formatting the file differently, etc, etc Sep 25 22:48:52 sds are cheap Sep 25 22:48:57 Jetta is totally a chick car Sep 25 22:49:01 but it doesn't make any less awesome. Sep 25 22:49:29 The General knows about strappy footwear. Sep 25 22:49:42 qole: i guess just ripping the code from the ubuntu installer shouldn't be too hard. Sep 25 22:50:14 Qole: wasn't that picture taken by The General? Sep 25 22:50:43 Stskeeps is already developing an installer that handles partitioning of SD cards. Sep 25 22:50:48 malikul, between the Golf and the Jetta, it kinda comes down to whether you want 4 doors. Sep 25 22:51:11 But my project runs a fully configured Debian partition out of an image file. Sep 25 22:51:38 I just want to see if there is ANY way to make that image file faster Sep 25 22:51:42 * Jaffa 's first car was an original 1988 Jetta. Sep 25 22:52:06 qole: so your project is a configured debian boot disk that runs off the SD card? Sep 25 22:52:11 * GeneralAntilles 's first car was a 2003 New Beetle. . . . Sep 25 22:52:41 http://maemo.org/ are the events blank for anybody else? Sep 25 22:53:02 no upcoming events i guess :) Sep 25 22:53:06 General: blank for me Sep 25 22:53:34 mmh no rss feed contains data. Sep 25 22:53:52 Well, there's an IRC meeting this saturday. ;) Sep 25 22:54:06 huh? Sep 25 22:54:07 yer. and bossa conference. Sep 25 22:54:07 in nyc? Sep 25 22:55:00 not in rl KotCzarny :) Sep 25 22:55:04 oh Sep 25 22:55:05 ;) Sep 25 22:55:18 "Sarah here from MobileMe Support. Unfortunately there is no work around for not being able to use unsupported browsers. I'm sorry for any inconvenience this may cause." Sep 25 22:55:26 * jpereiran hi! Sep 25 22:55:34 The workaround is them not using shitty UA detection. Sep 25 22:56:11 malikul: no, it chroots to the debian fs, and runs debian apps in maemo Sep 25 22:57:05 qole: have a website or online discription up? Sep 25 22:57:19 MobileMe? Sep 25 22:57:27 Yeah Sep 25 22:57:36 apple thingie right? Sep 25 22:57:46 Oh Sep 25 22:57:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobileme Sep 25 22:58:00 What they downgraded .mac to. Sep 25 22:58:09 Ah, I see. Sep 25 22:58:13 why use it anyway GeneralAntilles ? Sep 25 22:58:26 jott, because I've been using it since it was iTools Sep 25 22:58:33 and that email address is over half the web by now. ;) Sep 25 22:58:48 Services are all the rage - didn't you see the number of (overly optimistic) Ovi references on all the OSiM/summit stuff? Sep 25 22:58:55 and, generally speaking, it's a pretty good service Sep 25 22:58:57 they've just gotten retarded recently with their UA detection. Sep 25 22:58:59 ah, the classical vendor lock-in :) Sep 25 23:03:29 malikul: google the two words easy debian and choose the result from Internet Tablet Talk Sep 25 23:05:21 qole, think I could talk you into syndicating that howto to http://wiki.maemo.org ? Sep 25 23:05:36 and when are the server upgrades going live? :( Sep 25 23:07:15 I am going to do a lot of cleanup very soon Sep 25 23:07:24 qole: You want one of those: http://sources.redhat.com/lvm2/wiki/DMLoop Sep 25 23:07:27 http://marc.info/?l=linux-fsdevel&m=119986885324522&w=2 Sep 25 23:07:32 I will put the deb into extras, and the howto into the wiki Sep 25 23:07:56 Unfortunately, I am not sure it is trivial to integrate any of those patches to maemo kernel. Sep 25 23:10:17 DMLoop involves a new kernel. Not going to happen for my project :D Sep 25 23:10:43 module? Sep 25 23:10:55 I assume from matan's response that the second one is a kernel hack too Sep 25 23:11:27 I will gladly accept a kernel module from anyone that will give me a turbo-boosted loop fs Sep 25 23:11:34 :) Sep 25 23:12:07 Yes. The other patch changes loop to use the faster mapping that dmloop uses. Sep 25 23:13:56 Very clear from reading both of those pages that my problems are well known Sep 25 23:14:53 but seriously, is it possible to build a .ko module for the maemo kernel? Sep 25 23:14:59 yes Sep 25 23:15:20 I mean, is it possible to build a ko module that will do this Sep 25 23:15:28 maybe Sep 25 23:16:29 It would be great if you could insmod fastloop.ko ; mount ... -o fastloop,noatime Sep 25 23:16:45 probably Sep 25 23:16:46 :) Sep 25 23:17:07 ...." if you can find someone to do it..." Sep 25 23:17:30 * KotCzarny is busy, installing win xp Sep 25 23:18:17 This is hilarious: you can skim through to any arbitrary paragraph and find much hilarity on why the EU is the home of the antichrist and will be the seat of the rapture: http://www.raptureready.com/rr-eu.html Sep 25 23:18:57 Any reptilians from the 7th dimension? Sep 25 23:19:07 Remember to check your chakras for reptilians Sep 25 23:19:25 jaffa, it's easy, so many muslim immigrants in .eu -> terrorists -> evil Sep 25 23:19:28 ;) Sep 25 23:20:18 Their FAQ is quite humourous as well: http://www.raptureready.com/faq/faq203.html - the definition of a circular argument (or, an entirely logical consistent one if you accept the premise running throughout: "the Bible is literally true [in the bits we quote]" Sep 25 23:20:25 KotCzarny: heh Sep 25 23:20:30 ok guys Sep 25 23:20:32 i have a bad problem Sep 25 23:20:39 and one is simple to fix Sep 25 23:20:42 i think Sep 25 23:20:49 first off Sep 25 23:20:56 i cant access /home/user/ Sep 25 23:21:01 says permission denied, even in root Sep 25 23:21:04 secondly Sep 25 23:21:22 xulrunner that i have installed doesnt work (its broken .91b) and fennec browser wont work Sep 25 23:21:34 so im using buildbot but i cant access the directory or figure out how Sep 25 23:21:45 i have it in my documents folder on the device Sep 25 23:22:01 what have you done to end up in this state? Sep 25 23:22:04 so i think thats /home/user/Documents/xulrunner.tar.bz Sep 25 23:22:06 hmm? Sep 25 23:22:13 i tried installing fennec and it didnt work Sep 25 23:22:21 i checked the log from terminal trying to reinstall Sep 25 23:22:25 about that /home/user/ case Sep 25 23:22:30 and it said that it cant be configured Sep 25 23:22:32 hmm? Sep 25 23:22:43 /home/user gives me permission denied Sep 25 23:22:46 even as root Sep 25 23:22:48 ls -l /home Sep 25 23:23:01 ? Sep 25 23:23:14 what's the output Sep 25 23:23:16 qole: the "only" problem would probably be renaming some exported functions and using a different blockdev major to avoid conflicts with the compiled in loop device.. Sep 25 23:24:16 drwxr-x--- 41 user users 0 sept 25 17:11 user Sep 25 23:24:58 makes no sense to me? o.O Sep 25 23:25:15 well, root should have access to it anyway Sep 25 23:25:22 it doesnt :( Sep 25 23:25:34 are you sure it's root ? Sep 25 23:25:48 i used sudo gainroot Sep 25 23:25:49 just checked; no loop.ko file, so its all compiled-in Sep 25 23:26:47 jott: if you made such a module, i could use it! Sep 25 23:26:50 qole: lsmod |grep loop ? Sep 25 23:26:59 :( Sep 25 23:27:05 jaredu: hum, i don't know, maybe gainroot is flunky Sep 25 23:27:07 :) Sep 25 23:27:17 do you have sshd installed? Sep 25 23:27:19 any programs for gaining root? Sep 25 23:27:20 sshd? Sep 25 23:27:23 yes Sep 25 23:27:24 sec Sep 25 23:27:36 may be openssh metapackage Sep 25 23:27:48 KotCzarny: returns nothing Sep 25 23:27:50 The fastloop patch also changes another part of the kernel (lib/prio_tree.c) which is compiled in, so there is more work there if you don't want to replace the kernel. Sep 25 23:27:50 it would allow you to login as root Sep 25 23:28:06 apt-get install sshd doesnt give me anything Sep 25 23:28:08 cant find package Sep 25 23:28:13 jaredu: openssh Sep 25 23:28:17 ah Sep 25 23:28:54 installing Sep 25 23:28:55 one sec Sep 25 23:29:02 i had intended to set this up eventually xD Sep 25 23:29:10 :) Sep 25 23:29:23 ok Sep 25 23:29:27 i set my root pass Sep 25 23:29:31 its creating the ssh1 key Sep 25 23:29:44 how would this help? Sep 25 23:29:57 it would allow you to login as root Sep 25 23:30:01 how so ? Sep 25 23:30:02 ssh root@localhost Sep 25 23:30:06 ah Sep 25 23:30:06 gonna need to reboot, my 'find' turned up a bunch of I/O errors in files :( Sep 25 23:30:15 ok Sep 25 23:30:23 hmm Sep 25 23:30:26 do you use frennec? Sep 25 23:30:28 fennec* Sep 25 23:30:38 the new mozilla browser thats 6x as fast as microb Sep 25 23:31:00 It's still slow and crashy. Sep 25 23:31:05 Not worth installing. Sep 25 23:31:08 >.< Sep 25 23:31:14 and it's only 6x as fast in some js stuff. Sep 25 23:31:19 ah Sep 25 23:31:21 well Sep 25 23:31:22 goodenough Sep 25 23:31:24 :) Sep 25 23:31:26 id like to give it a shot Sep 25 23:31:27 :P Sep 25 23:31:33 at least have the option heh Sep 25 23:31:35 and only because it's based on a newer Firefox release than MicroB. Sep 25 23:31:41 Which will change soon enough. Sep 25 23:31:42 on top of that my xulrunner doesn't work anyway Sep 25 23:31:56 i have .9.1b which is broken Sep 25 23:32:05 i have the buildbot for .9.5b Sep 25 23:32:13 but i couldnt untar it :P Sep 25 23:32:17 UI on fennec is really slow; and form entry didn't work on the version I used last week Sep 25 23:32:18 uh oh Sep 25 23:32:23 crap! Sep 25 23:32:34 ok: Sep 25 23:33:31 creating ssh2 dsa key; this may take some time ... Sep 25 23:33:31 restarting openBSD secure shell server: sshd Sep 25 23:33:31 setting up openssh (1:4.7p1-12.maemo2) ... Sep 25 23:33:31 errors were encountered while processing: xulrunner Sep 25 23:33:31 E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) Sep 25 23:33:51 gotta love dpkg Sep 25 23:33:55 >.< Sep 25 23:34:00 what's it do o.o Sep 25 23:34:02 one failed package and the whole sys is b0rken Sep 25 23:34:15 so... i need to flash it? Sep 25 23:34:24 try removing xulrunner Sep 25 23:34:26 :) Sep 25 23:34:27 it wont let me Sep 25 23:34:28 it fails Sep 25 23:34:29 :( Sep 25 23:34:35 unable to uninstall xulrunner Sep 25 23:34:40 forcibly? Sep 25 23:34:45 how do i do that o.O Sep 25 23:34:55 --force-all ? Sep 25 23:35:02 i tried both application manager and apt-get remove xulrunner Sep 25 23:35:15 where do i add --force-all? Sep 25 23:35:25 to dpkg i think Sep 25 23:36:31 so what would the command be for xulrunner? Sep 25 23:36:34 ive never used dpkg Sep 25 23:36:42 hrm Sep 25 23:36:48 dpkg --remove ? Sep 25 23:36:54 try --help Sep 25 23:36:55 :) Sep 25 23:38:24 hmm Sep 25 23:38:30 it would be dpkg -r -force-all xulrunner Sep 25 23:38:34 tried that but it gave no output Sep 25 23:38:38 maybe its gone? Sep 25 23:38:41 maybe Sep 25 23:38:47 how do i check o.O Sep 25 23:38:56 dpkg -l or -q ? Sep 25 23:39:16 crap Sep 25 23:39:18 -l its on the list Sep 25 23:39:35 but may be in uninstalled state Sep 25 23:39:37 rF xulrunner 1.9.1b1pre-200 Sep 25 23:39:59 hmm Sep 25 23:40:00 you may try --purge Sep 25 23:40:16 on dpkg -r -force-all --purge xulrunner? Sep 25 23:40:32 or dpkg --purge xulrunner Sep 25 23:40:37 second Sep 25 23:40:59 hmm Sep 25 23:41:06 its dpkg --purge xulrunner Sep 25 23:41:40 removing xulrunner .... segmentation fault dpkg: error processing xulrunner (--purge): subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 139 errors were encountered while processing: xulrunner Sep 25 23:41:43 crap? Sep 25 23:41:59 :) Sep 25 23:42:10 ughhhhh Sep 25 23:42:12 ill bbiab Sep 25 23:42:13 need to eat Sep 25 23:42:17 how much you would like to learn about fixing os :) Sep 25 23:42:22 um Sep 25 23:42:26 id like to flash the device? Sep 25 23:42:33 i already installed and took off android :P Sep 25 23:42:35 apparently that xulrunner installation broken sys badly Sep 25 23:42:43 :( Sep 25 23:42:46 ill bbiab Sep 25 23:42:47 ill fix it Sep 25 23:42:52 idc if i lose data Sep 25 23:43:02 i got a 4gb card w/ it all backed up Sep 25 23:43:03 :) Sep 25 23:43:11 i can format it though yes? :) Sep 25 23:43:23 probably Sep 25 23:43:26 kk Sep 25 23:43:28 bbiab Sep 25 23:46:53 * lcuk smiles Sep 25 23:47:07 then winces, god this hurts! Sep 25 23:47:19 another fall? Sep 25 23:47:26 What'd you have, a root canal? Sep 25 23:47:41 heh, no worse - was at the dentist Sep 25 23:47:58 no, i think he hollowed out my entire jawbone Sep 25 23:48:07 could be worse Sep 25 23:48:09 Sounds fun. Sep 25 23:48:17 * lcuk needs to get implants Sep 25 23:48:23 o.o Sep 25 23:49:06 not yet of course, but it might be required soon Sep 25 23:49:31 the soup Sep 25 23:49:33 :) Sep 25 23:50:31 heh Sep 25 23:50:33 hows KotCzarny this evening? Sep 25 23:50:52 installing xp Sep 25 23:51:10 gotta sell some thinkpads from my stable Sep 25 23:51:59 boo hiss Sep 25 23:52:15 not your normal boxen i hope? Sep 25 23:52:29 well Sep 25 23:52:37 i have moved from x32 to x40 Sep 25 23:53:45 ? http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/launch/x-40-smv-hang2m.jpg :D Sep 25 23:54:00 well Sep 25 23:54:01 cats in space! Sep 25 23:54:05 that's boeing Sep 25 23:54:08 not thinkpad Sep 25 23:54:09 :) Sep 25 23:56:29 thats just bein a spoilsport :P Sep 25 23:56:37 mrr Sep 25 23:56:38 :P Sep 25 23:57:02 NIT went from fullbattery to dead in 4 hours - i caught it just as it was goin off, and i had disabled the net Sep 25 23:57:25 cpu usage? Sep 25 23:57:29 doh Sep 25 23:57:43 must be somethin Sep 25 23:57:46 * Jaffa *really* should go to sleep; but is too tired to get ready for bed, and has wikipedia open Sep 25 23:57:50 evenin jaffa - odd time to see you around Sep 25 23:57:58 Evil wikipedia Sep 25 23:59:07 depends what you are reading to the level of evilness Sep 26 00:00:39 GeneralAntilles, has your beagle recovered yet? Sep 26 00:00:44 No Sep 26 00:00:47 Damn that Wikipedia Sep 26 00:00:55 I tried another round the other night Sep 26 00:00:55 without success Sep 26 00:00:59 I murdered GeneralAntilles's beagle's mother Sep 26 00:01:15 * Jaffa must start working through a Clutter tutorial this weekend to see if his grand plan of a killer Maemo 5 app will be doable Sep 26 00:01:16 balls, thats really unfortunate Sep 26 00:01:16 I need help from somebody who knows better what they're doing Sep 26 00:01:18 It's so shocked that it ceases to function Sep 26 00:01:20 but they don't want to help. Sep 26 00:01:33 Jaffa: woo, killer apps Sep 26 00:01:43 Imma try with a different card next week. Sep 26 00:01:45 * lcuk hopes he has a killer app :) Sep 26 00:02:24 Navi: well, handy more than killer. Hopefully pretty, too Sep 26 00:02:25 Jaffa: personally, I'm not all too fond of the GObject stuff Sep 26 00:02:55 * lcuk ticks boxes for useful and speedy and fun and creating data and technology :) Sep 26 00:03:07 lcuk: lies Sep 26 00:03:11 :O Sep 26 00:03:23 * lcuk slaps navi with a kinetic hand Sep 26 00:03:41 Jaffa: but at least they have python bindings. I'm much too lazy to do anything else \o/ Sep 26 00:03:49 Navi: indeed; my playing with Vala, and discussions on #vala shows you can quite rapidly reach the point where you realise it's not *real* OO Sep 26 00:04:06 Hehe Sep 26 00:04:29 * Jaffa may well do this app in Python, even though it's not my "preferred" language. Sep 26 00:04:33 Will see when the SDK gets out Sep 26 00:04:35 jaffa, the author of vala was at the summit you know Sep 26 00:04:54 lcuk: was he? interesting Sep 26 00:05:03 A lot of people were there, apparently Sep 26 00:05:04 or at least i was introduced to him the day after :) i think i saw him floating around before Sep 26 00:05:10 :) Sep 26 00:06:01 It's an interesting idea and shows promise; tooling needs a lot of work, but Valable's shaping up a bit. Some of the design decisions aren't ones I entirely agree with - but they're valuing C interoperability higher than I would. Sep 26 00:06:04 well he idles here in the channel :) Sep 26 00:06:16 indeed Sep 26 00:07:09 is it easier nowadays to run c code in vala? (like without big binding mess)? Sep 26 00:07:29 hi qole Sep 26 00:07:33 * lcuk waves binary Sep 26 00:07:36 jott: dunno Sep 26 00:08:24 being restricted to gobject and some selected libs is a bit unfortunate ... Sep 26 00:08:31 * Navi nods Sep 26 00:08:46 Jaffa: what are you planning on, anyways? Sep 26 00:08:47 but cant you construct bindings for anything? Sep 26 00:09:03 lcuk: you can Sep 26 00:09:06 lcuk: well if you put 2-10 extra hours of work in it.. Sep 26 00:09:25 then its not restricted, merely immature. the tooling will come with age Sep 26 00:09:36 Navi: nothing that exciting; still wishing for a variation of EPOC's Jotter Sep 26 00:09:37 it shows promise Sep 26 00:10:00 well, as an application developer you are restricted... Sep 26 00:10:18 lcuk: indeed (on both counts). I added code complete, incremental building and some other tooling necessetities to Valable Sep 26 00:10:21 you mentioned this before jaffa :) Sep 26 00:10:34 aye Sep 26 00:10:37 * Jaffa sleep now Sep 26 00:10:42 gnite dude Sep 26 00:10:50 * jott silently injects caffeine into jaffa Sep 26 00:10:50 Jaffa: night Sep 26 00:10:53 good night :) Sep 26 00:10:55 Ha Sep 26 00:11:00 Oops Sep 26 00:12:01 * lcuk ponders threading for loading sketches Sep 26 00:12:50 * jott deadlocks lcuk with a broken semaphore Sep 26 00:12:50 dneary wants an agenda Sep 26 00:12:58 * GeneralAntilles doesn't have any good plans. Sep 26 00:13:38 GeneralAntilles: I can make one for you. Sep 26 00:13:45 Maybe we can take tim's new Community pages live, though. Sep 26 00:13:51 lol jott - i tweaked the algo yesterday and it lazy loads sketches one per frame until complete - so now when i go kinetic i catch up with the cat faster Sep 26 00:14:13 it used to load 4 per frame so was faster but kinetic was more sluggish while loading Sep 26 00:17:31 but yes threading is the way to go for loading many objects in a gui app. Sep 26 00:17:46 yes indeed Sep 26 00:18:05 for now it will suffice, but i know i will have to soon Sep 26 00:18:30 * lcuk tosses a coin Sep 26 00:18:31 heh. you should integrate a todo list in liqbase :) Sep 26 00:18:43 would be funny to thread sketches as todos Sep 26 00:19:04 and online server to post 'feature requests/bugs' as sketches too Sep 26 00:19:05 :) Sep 26 00:19:10 todo items will simply be tagged as such, no specific need - i write on everything i think about then browse and review often Sep 26 00:19:44 lcuk: yeah that's what i thought, just add some progress slider to it ;) Sep 26 00:20:03 progress? as in progress where loading is upto? Sep 26 00:20:11 no for todo sketches :) Sep 26 00:20:19 KotCzarny, :) online server will come Sep 26 00:20:24 lcuk: am I going to get to try your beta? Sep 26 00:20:25 ahh lol - yeah Sep 26 00:20:55 yes qole, im considering how to let you all get access without getting sidetracked Sep 26 00:21:14 'you have successfully activated you copy of Windows.' Sep 26 00:21:17 and im scared to update to svn i dont wanna break it Sep 26 00:21:26 Make a new branch. Sep 26 00:21:46 yikes, just saw the time, gotta get my bike togs on and go home... Sep 26 00:21:52 well thats not really feasible is it Sep 26 00:22:05 cos of the folder structure i chose initially - i have no trunk or anything Sep 26 00:22:20 Just move everything 1 level down. Sep 26 00:23:35 tomorrow night when im not in pain ill try and get svn back on the machine Sep 26 00:23:53 ./kcup.sh has survived reinstallation :) Sep 26 00:24:00 why shouldn't it Sep 26 00:24:01 :) Sep 26 00:24:28 exactly - it survived when other lesser apps didnt ;) Sep 26 00:24:58 http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS3596691272.html Sep 26 00:25:01 What an odd number Sep 26 00:25:06 "42% by 2013" Sep 26 00:26:46 probably based the number on the exponential netbook adoption rate Sep 26 00:26:50 ok Sep 26 00:26:54 i need to format my n810 Sep 26 00:27:02 because xulrunner screwed the os up Sep 26 00:27:05 unfortunate Sep 26 00:27:08 how would i go about doing that Sep 26 00:27:11 ~flashing Sep 26 00:27:12 somebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 26 00:27:26 this will fix all errors? Sep 26 00:27:30 yup Sep 26 00:27:44 just backup your important data Sep 26 00:27:45 it will make your n810 virgin Sep 26 00:27:51 excellent Sep 26 00:28:39 GeneralAntilles: that article is full of fail Sep 26 00:28:55 Navi, feel free to make it "better". Sep 26 00:28:56 hmm? Sep 26 00:28:59 It _is_ a wiki. Sep 26 00:29:30 but first, navi - whats wrong with it? Sep 26 00:29:45 and discussion is just as important as changing at first whim Sep 26 00:32:06 I wasn't talking about the wiki page Sep 26 00:32:23 I was talking about the linuxdevices.com article Sep 26 00:33:10 GeneralAntilles: with the adoption rate -> old statistics trick - don't use round numbers to sound more precise :) Sep 26 00:33:27 lol Sep 26 00:33:28 also Sep 26 00:33:31 Navi, well, duh. :P Sep 26 00:33:35 yer navi it was a bit bleugh Sep 26 00:33:42 is it bad that sometimes my tablet goes to 38 degrees celcius? :P Sep 26 00:33:46 I had to correct them about the N900 using OMAP35x Sep 26 00:33:49 they still haven't fixed it. Sep 26 00:33:52 jaredu: normal Sep 26 00:33:52 its hotter than my quad cores O_O Sep 26 00:33:56 mmk Sep 26 00:34:02 Jaredu, :) it is a quad core Sep 26 00:34:03 mine goes to ~45 sometimes Sep 26 00:34:13 ah Sep 26 00:34:15 shame we only ever use at most 2 of them Sep 26 00:34:16 usually under full load + wifi Sep 26 00:34:24 heh Sep 26 00:34:38 jaredu: your quad cored have fan and radiator on themj Sep 26 00:34:39 my quad core runs at 32 degrees c :( Sep 26 00:34:42 true Sep 26 00:35:03 what is it? Sep 26 00:35:13 is what? Sep 26 00:35:14 and are you sure the temp sensor is fitted correctly :D Sep 26 00:35:23 heh Sep 26 00:35:46 although my pentium-m runs at ~35C without fan Sep 26 00:36:10 Psh Sep 26 00:36:16 * GeneralAntilles is at 65°C at the moment. Sep 26 00:36:18 39C now when browsing web and listening to music Sep 26 00:37:07 GeneralAntilles: im at the tablet dev site Sep 26 00:37:17 i just download the diablo version to flash or how do i do it o.O Sep 26 00:37:46 i nearly fried my 810 one night recently - i left it in my cradle charging with a book ontop :S it worried me cos it was v hot Sep 26 00:37:55 hrm Sep 26 00:37:59 it shouldn't Sep 26 00:37:59 Jaredu, are you using linux Sep 26 00:38:08 unfortunately at the moment no Sep 26 00:38:12 am on vista 64bit Sep 26 00:38:15 >.< Sep 26 00:38:18 KotCzarny, my wooden crate has no airholes - and the book ontop Sep 26 00:38:25 hrm Sep 26 00:38:30 Jaredu, read the article I linked. Sep 26 00:38:33 drill then? Sep 26 00:38:33 its ok, im on 32bit xp ;) Sep 26 00:38:38 thinking so Sep 26 00:38:39 my wifi doesnt work on linux @tm due to nonsupported wifi drivers for my wifi N usb Sep 26 00:38:47 but i dont normally leave it covered Sep 26 00:38:55 just take nit out beforehand Sep 26 00:38:56 :) Sep 26 00:39:01 ah ok Sep 26 00:39:04 i just use the wizard then Sep 26 00:39:07 ive done this before :D Sep 26 00:39:24 now to find the stupid usb cable.. Sep 26 00:39:27 jaredu: get usb wifi as a backup? Sep 26 00:39:28 :) Sep 26 00:39:29 heh - i needed it left charging and available in the daytime, but i never leave it out on the surface cos knowing my luck something would drop on it Sep 26 00:39:42 lcuk, I doubt very much that it would've fried it. Sep 26 00:40:07 but battery would die faster Sep 26 00:40:09 yer gen i would hope so, but it felt wrong anyways Sep 26 00:40:10 i got usb wifi Sep 26 00:40:11 because of temp Sep 26 00:40:16 and i do 3d modelling alot along with photoshop Sep 26 00:40:22 unfortunately 3ds max doesnt support linux Sep 26 00:40:22 li-ion doesn't like hihj temps Sep 26 00:40:25 and i have to use it for college :( Sep 26 00:40:26 *high Sep 26 00:40:33 jaredu: wine ? Sep 26 00:40:34 3ds max sucks Sep 26 00:40:38 too laggy Sep 26 00:40:43 hrm Sep 26 00:40:44 3ds max doesn't run very well under wine Sep 26 00:40:47 *shrugs* Sep 26 00:40:53 mmmm wine Sep 26 00:41:17 ah crap Sep 26 00:41:20 where was the rest of eletrunko logged into? were his legs in one chan? Sep 26 00:41:36 Haaar Sep 26 00:41:51 heh Sep 26 00:42:22 ok, back to bed for me Sep 26 00:42:26 go go Sep 26 00:42:29 gnite chaps Sep 26 00:42:32 :) Sep 26 00:42:49 123 mb O_O Sep 26 00:43:28 Jaredu, same size it was last time. Sep 26 00:43:30 any clue as to when the n900s will be coming out/cost? Sep 26 00:43:32 i know Sep 26 00:43:36 but it was a pain xD Sep 26 00:43:42 :D i am tagged on flickr Sep 26 00:43:50 Q2-Q3 2009 Sep 26 00:43:51 had to do it twice cause the battery was barely charged lol Sep 26 00:43:56 ah Sep 26 00:43:57 ~$400-$600 Sep 26 00:44:01 hmm Sep 26 00:44:07 ./can wait for price drop xD Sep 26 00:44:15 i still need to sell my sony mylo 2 Sep 26 00:44:15 heh Sep 26 00:44:18 lcuk: http://flickr.com/photos/funkygeek/1465307245/ ? :P Sep 26 00:44:32 :D hahahaha Sep 26 00:44:42 any pics of the n900? Sep 26 00:44:52 :) Sep 26 00:45:00 * Jaredu likes that car. Sep 26 00:45:09 Jaredu, there aren't even prototypes yet. Sep 26 00:45:16 lcuk: hmm http://flickr.com/photos/16523930@N00/378601193/ :P Sep 26 00:45:17 ah ok Sep 26 00:45:26 Haaa Sep 26 00:45:39 lcuk, that's a nice blouse you've got there. Sep 26 00:45:58 wow wtf Sep 26 00:46:09 ready to update your device software from: Sep 26 00:46:16 lol Sep 26 00:46:18 diablo_4.2008.30-2 Sep 26 00:46:19 to Sep 26 00:46:30 Diablo_4.2008.23-14(latest) Sep 26 00:46:34 do i have a beta or something? O_O Sep 26 00:46:43 There isn't a FIASCO image out for the first SSU release. Sep 26 00:46:45 ~ssu Sep 26 00:46:46 ssu is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU Sep 26 00:46:50 note: you are downgrading to an older version Sep 26 00:46:51 wtf Sep 26 00:47:03 how did i get a newer version Sep 26 00:47:09 than the latest Sep 26 00:47:22 just old flash image Sep 26 00:47:33 and no later upgrades in flash image format Sep 26 00:47:34 nothe full flash image was released -23.14 - then after that you have had SSU updates Sep 26 00:47:37 only .debs Sep 26 00:47:41 ah ok Sep 26 00:47:49 Jaredu, read the link. Sep 26 00:47:53 ah drat :( Sep 26 00:48:02 doesnt give the option to download and then use the file Sep 26 00:48:05 its all auto w/ updater :( Sep 26 00:48:17 it would ease users confusions if ssu was rolled into the full flash Sep 26 00:48:19 //was already at 25% Sep 26 00:48:35 lcuk, what do you mean? Sep 26 00:48:45 i.e., SSU updates would also be provided with a FIASCO image? Sep 26 00:48:49 well like now, this guy thinks hes downgradin Sep 26 00:48:56 Well, that's the plan. Sep 26 00:49:03 :( Sep 26 00:49:08 :) didnt think otherwise Sep 26 00:49:09 Nokia just pushed 30-2 out early to fix the Modest battery life issue. Sep 26 00:49:12 heh Sep 26 00:49:22 So it didn't get the full treatment. Sep 26 00:49:26 yeah having fiasco images in sync with ssu would make sense :) Sep 26 00:49:26 i had 9 hours of continious battery life my first day Sep 26 00:49:36 full day of web/installing/etc Sep 26 00:49:36 cool, thanks for the info immortal leader of the community \o/ Sep 26 00:49:40 9 solid hours Sep 26 00:49:48 immoral? Sep 26 00:49:49 :> Sep 26 00:49:49 it lasts at least 7.5 a day now Sep 26 00:49:56 continious use xD Sep 26 00:50:18 Jaredu, alter your screen brightness and you could get more Sep 26 00:50:24 i know Sep 26 00:50:29 it was at 3/5 Sep 26 00:50:39 though i must say im impressed Sep 26 00:50:43 thats my normal - 4 and 5 really kill life Sep 26 00:50:43 due to the fact that the box states 4hrs Sep 26 00:50:55 :D Sep 26 00:51:07 lcuk, Advanced Backlight Sep 26 00:51:33 ahem, i must collar rm and jott soon on that score actually Sep 26 00:51:37 theres a bug somewhere Sep 26 00:51:47 Bug? Sep 26 00:51:55 yer Sep 26 00:52:02 Care to file a report? :P Sep 26 00:52:14 he prefers personal reporting Sep 26 00:52:20 via threatening Sep 26 00:52:21 :> Sep 26 00:52:30 advanced backlighting was nice :P Sep 26 00:52:41 after a period (i think its reboot) i notice the screen is too dark, so i open adv back light and it says "brightness 100" but only when i click it does the brightness actually increase Sep 26 00:52:45 i had almost everything on my tablet that was useful lol Sep 26 00:52:46 :P Sep 26 00:53:03 Probably reboot Sep 26 00:53:06 hmm Sep 26 00:53:08 ill bbiab Sep 26 00:53:10 It was supposedly fixed a few versions ago Sep 26 00:53:12 lcuk, probably dimming is brighter than full bright Sep 26 00:53:12 23 mins till dl is finished Sep 26 00:53:43 yer, its a bit strange - ive noticed it a few times now Sep 26 00:53:52 ~dimming is http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/moredimmingoptions/ Sep 26 00:53:52 GeneralAntilles: okay Sep 26 00:53:55 Install that. Sep 26 00:53:59 never anything concrete and ive had other things on mind Sep 26 00:54:05 i think there is an option to go directly to off Sep 26 00:54:10 instead of 'dimming' Sep 26 00:54:13 lcuk, I think its related with the 'built in' bright applet setting, try checking what is the current value in that, I'm pretty sure it will be the lowest level Sep 26 00:54:29 yer, if dim and off are both same it goes directly off immediately Sep 26 00:54:36 dsme is going open Sep 26 00:54:48 so it'll be a lot easier for us to hook into some of the lame dimming logic and such Sep 26 00:54:52 bef0rd, ahhh, thats a possibility ill have a look, thanks Sep 26 00:55:07 GeneralAntilles: unfortunately the brightness stuff will be moved into mce :p Sep 26 00:55:11 (which stays closed) Sep 26 00:55:26 :> Sep 26 00:55:37 bef0rd, you are right. brightness from control panel/display is marked as notch 1/5 Sep 26 00:55:48 and the leaked mce version probably imply some legal trouble... Sep 26 00:55:49 abl is on 100 Sep 26 00:55:52 jott, dsme is just gonna be a bunch of calls to mce's closed code. Sep 26 00:56:00 GeneralAntilles: yep. Sep 26 00:56:11 jott, wheres bugtrack thing for your abl? Sep 26 00:56:21 ill make a proper note of the observations Sep 26 00:56:23 lcuk, well, we're gonna be using b.m.o soon. Sep 26 00:56:30 But, uh, guenther is being really lazy about the templates. Sep 26 00:56:32 but brightness handling will be moved to mce :/ Sep 26 00:56:50 jott, dsme may actually include mce. Sep 26 00:56:52 so not much to patch in dsme :/ Sep 26 00:56:54 no Sep 26 00:56:59 so what gets open in effect? Sep 26 00:57:07 would be nice to get userspace access to cpufreq as well ;) Sep 26 00:57:13 mce stays separate. gets more functions and remains closed. Sep 26 00:57:33 (that's the info i got from the dsme/mce devs at least :) Sep 26 00:57:34 jott, sarcasm or for truths you got from the Summit? :P Sep 26 00:57:42 lol, for serious? Sep 26 00:57:45 yes :( Sep 26 00:57:50 That's such fucking bullshit. Sep 26 00:57:59 * GeneralAntilles may have to do a write-up on that one. Sep 26 00:58:11 Token open sourcing Sep 26 00:58:14 that's really awesome. Sep 26 00:58:35 So, basically, Nokia shouldn't get any credit at all for open sourcing dsme? Sep 26 00:59:24 well more of the hardware related abstraction goes to mce.. Sep 26 00:59:37 maybe some mce stuff makes it into dsme.. Sep 26 00:59:43 still f*cked up.. Sep 26 01:00:04 I'm gonna pitch a fit whenever the code hits Garage and turns out to be nothing. Sep 26 01:00:20 I'm not sure what the logic behind that could possibly be. Sep 26 01:00:25 and the devs already had to fight for dsme being opened... Sep 26 01:00:44 But if it's just for earning brownie points with the community with some token open sourcing then everybody needs to know. Sep 26 01:00:45 Man Sep 26 01:00:51 What a let down. Sep 26 01:01:10 yeah. you can imagine rm_you and my disappointment when we talked to the dev... Sep 26 01:01:28 i mean he was open for suggestions and adding some stuff to mce. Sep 26 01:01:37 but in the end i doubt it will get into any release.. Sep 26 01:01:49 Yeah Sep 26 01:01:55 Soft poweroff still hasn't been fixed. Sep 26 01:02:01 10 months later. Sep 26 01:02:38 Man, they are gonna have another thing coming if they think they can pull shit like that and get kudos for it. Sep 26 01:05:16 This differentiation nonsense is really killing us. Sep 26 01:05:27 i mean design-wise it makes sense to move the stuff to mce but it's still a big let down Sep 26 01:05:47 Somebody needs to go eviscerate all the retarded MBAs over at Nokia. Sep 26 01:05:58 yeah well and mce is not even remotely a gui part.. :/ Sep 26 01:06:14 What was the other thing on the slide? Sep 26 01:06:18 "power management" Sep 26 01:06:34 yer bme .. Sep 26 01:06:49 Man Sep 26 01:06:52 * GeneralAntilles is pissed off now. Sep 26 01:07:19 Tick tock, Nokia. Sep 26 01:07:25 Release the code so we can destroy you. Sep 26 01:12:35 GeneralAntilles: http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsamoff/2884900465/ :P Sep 26 01:12:57 Somebody should caption Quim Sep 26 01:13:03 "Onwards! To adventure!" Sep 26 01:15:24 someone should photoshop FSM on the projection Sep 26 01:16:08 in place of the shadow? Sep 26 01:16:19 ok Sep 26 01:16:20 back Sep 26 01:20:24 wow Sep 26 01:20:25 yay Sep 26 01:20:29 DUN works now Sep 26 01:20:30 sweet Sep 26 01:21:53 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sep 26 01:21:55 oops Sep 26 01:21:56 fail. Sep 26 01:21:57 sorry Sep 26 01:22:06 was laying on keyboard setting up clock on tablet lol Sep 26 01:32:11 heh, thats not fail its full of plus Sep 26 01:32:21 full of prius Sep 26 01:32:33 lol Sep 26 01:33:20 ouchy Sep 26 01:33:48 what is the recommended root application other than ssh Sep 26 01:33:58 ~root-access Sep 26 01:33:59 root-access is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access Sep 26 01:34:02 ~rootsh Sep 26 01:34:03 methinks rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/ Sep 26 01:34:51 hmm Sep 26 01:34:57 all my repositories are gone O_O Sep 26 01:35:51 www.gronmayer.com/it/ good? Sep 26 01:36:11 i just use extras Sep 26 01:36:38 gronmayer == evil Sep 26 01:36:54 why o.O? Sep 26 01:36:59 mess Sep 26 01:37:05 >.< Sep 26 01:37:07 unchecked mess Sep 26 01:37:08 :) Sep 26 01:37:14 useful though? Sep 26 01:37:17 sure Sep 26 01:37:19 cos if you use the maemo extras repo - you know the apps you install will be there forever :) Sep 26 01:37:23 herh Sep 26 01:37:24 heh Sep 26 01:37:25 if you seek one particular package Sep 26 01:37:39 gronmayer == broken device Sep 26 01:37:44 O_O Sep 26 01:37:48 crap Sep 26 01:37:49 lol Sep 26 01:38:13 gronmayer, solution to something which is no longer required for 2008 :) Sep 26 01:38:21 hmm Sep 26 01:38:22 crap lol Sep 26 01:38:25 i would gather its still useful for the older oses Sep 26 01:38:32 heh Sep 26 01:38:38 hmm Sep 26 01:38:44 anyway to reset to default repositories then Sep 26 01:38:48 cause i just installed them all lol Sep 26 01:38:49 you have a kittery keyboard Sep 26 01:39:02 kittery? Sep 26 01:39:02 nice Sep 26 01:39:10 jittery Sep 26 01:39:14 heh Sep 26 01:39:26 |> Wo bist du - Rammstein (Rosenrot) Sep 26 01:40:37 lo there Sep 26 01:40:45 yo Sep 26 01:40:53 lcuk: any way i can restore default repo's Sep 26 01:40:54 ? Sep 26 01:41:00 is there a way to run GNOME on N810? Sep 26 01:41:11 yes, kinda Sep 26 01:41:13 I saw XFCE on it Sep 26 01:41:25 I'd love nautilus/gedit on it though Sep 26 01:41:35 you have only 128mb of ram Sep 26 01:41:41 ~deblet Sep 26 01:41:42 deblet is, like, http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet Sep 26 01:41:42 Jaredu, im not the best to ask, but i would gather you can do a bulk cleanup by editing /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Sep 26 01:41:48 most of which is already taken by few hogs Sep 26 01:41:48 KotCzarny, is that right ^ ? Sep 26 01:41:58 I know deblet Sep 26 01:42:08 well, he can simply uncheck them Sep 26 01:42:14 one by one Sep 26 01:42:28 wants em gone Sep 26 01:42:36 oh my, I missed that one -> http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/nit-env-gnome-basic.png Sep 26 01:42:39 yeah "uncheck" by "dd" :) Sep 26 01:42:54 :D Sep 26 01:43:12 hmm Sep 26 01:43:16 shroot isnt on my list Sep 26 01:43:17 odd Sep 26 01:43:27 wait Sep 26 01:43:32 it was rootsh Sep 26 01:43:32 lol Sep 26 01:43:32 sec Sep 26 01:43:36 haha Sep 26 01:43:36 ./retarded Sep 26 01:44:54 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/scrF1.jpg Sep 26 01:44:58 is that epiphany? Sep 26 01:45:14 xfce Sep 26 01:45:15 actually Sep 26 01:45:17 :P Sep 26 01:45:24 the browser. Sep 26 01:45:26 Epiphany is a web browser. . . . Sep 26 01:45:30 Yes, it's Epiphany. Sep 26 01:45:34 ah lol Sep 26 01:45:48 I'd love to give webkit epiphany a try Sep 26 01:45:55 especially on the n810 Sep 26 01:46:06 Is there a program that'll display slides from a .ppt file? Sep 26 01:46:22 OpenOffice? :D Sep 26 01:46:34 LiraNuna: does that run smoothly on a n800 :) Sep 26 01:46:42 no idea :D Sep 26 01:46:50 openoffice is slow O_O Sep 26 01:46:55 heh Sep 26 01:47:04 takes forever to load lol Sep 26 01:47:07 but it can work Sep 26 01:47:19 Jaredu: any alts? I don't need editing - just viewing Sep 26 01:47:27 hmm Sep 26 01:47:31 maybe google docs? Sep 26 01:47:35 i dunno if they do ppt Sep 26 01:48:00 they do. but it's google :S Sep 26 01:48:07 kpresenter :P also a bit slot though (and uses quite some disk space), and I'm not sure how well the ppt import filter is Sep 26 01:48:10 lol Sep 26 01:48:24 plus, I'm not allowed to put these ppts online (crazy rules...) Sep 26 01:48:42 convert them to pdf? :) Sep 26 01:48:44 fireup ppt and save slides as jpgs ? Sep 26 01:48:45 on the desktop... Sep 26 01:48:53 yeah or pngs. Sep 26 01:49:01 pngs > jpgs imo :P Sep 26 01:49:07 depends on content Sep 26 01:49:07 anw, that seems like the best way. Sep 26 01:49:08 :) Sep 26 01:50:10 on the linux desktop, is there a ppt->txt converter? Sep 26 01:50:24 i think i saw one Sep 26 01:50:41 KotCzarny: perhaps you remember it's name? :) Sep 26 01:50:47 looking Sep 26 01:50:54 thanks :) Sep 26 01:50:56 there is ppthtml Sep 26 01:51:12 catdoc ? Sep 26 01:51:22 anyone know an ssh client for windows so i can view my desktop on tablet or how to setup putty to do so? :) Sep 26 01:51:23 Wow Sep 26 01:51:29 The new VGBA is way faster. Sep 26 01:51:36 jaredu: vnc Sep 26 01:51:39 80% isnt playable imo Sep 26 01:51:41 Jaredu: look into vnc Sep 26 01:51:45 vnc eh? Sep 26 01:51:49 pay or no? Sep 26 01:51:50 GeneralAntilles: thanks to direct framebuffer rendering :) Sep 26 01:51:53 evaryont: http://ftp.wagner.pp.ru/~vitus/software/catdoc/ Sep 26 01:52:01 KotCzarny: arch has a pkg for it :) Sep 26 01:52:06 :) Sep 26 01:52:12 Upscaling got a lot uglier, though. Sep 26 01:52:13 then you should get catppt command Sep 26 01:52:26 time to set up a quick shell script... Sep 26 01:52:41 convert each ppt to a series of pngs + a big ol' text file :D Sep 26 01:53:25 hm does catdoc support ppt?! Sep 26 01:53:36 jott: it has few subcommands Sep 26 01:53:49 ah Sep 26 01:53:54 xls2csv for example Sep 26 01:53:55 :) Sep 26 01:53:58 :) Sep 26 01:54:07 catdoc++ \o/ Sep 26 01:54:25 though I haven't found a pkg for Arch that does ppt-> Sep 26 01:54:45 evaryont: openoffice? :) Sep 26 01:55:19 jott: I don't really want to load it just to convert a file. Also, I don't know if it's scriptable Sep 26 01:55:27 it is Sep 26 01:55:39 even without launching the main gui Sep 26 01:55:44 can deblet do skype? Sep 26 01:55:46 hmm Sep 26 01:55:54 jott: I'll look into it. Thanks :) Sep 26 01:56:03 wtf! Sep 26 01:56:04 I see the .install file is just text Sep 26 01:56:15 i ssh'ed into my tablet as root@localhost and /home is still no permissions Sep 26 01:56:17 what the heck Sep 26 01:56:48 wtf.. Sep 26 01:59:08 evaryont: http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=7796 Sep 26 01:59:43 something like this Sep 26 02:01:59 jott: thanks! Sep 26 02:02:45 i guess it's some sort of OOo faq judging from the google results :) Sep 26 02:03:25 :) Sep 26 02:17:00 jott: do you mind being tech support? Given file "a_presentation.ppt", how would I run that script? I know I'd have to pass -headless, but that's about it :S Sep 26 02:17:38 http://www.oooninja.com/2008/02/batch-command-line-file-conversion-with.html maybe this will help? Sep 26 02:19:22 jott: it just might :) Sep 26 02:29:26 jott: he he, links to links, found 'unoconv'...and there's a pkg for that! :) Sep 26 02:41:29 evaryont: arch is great Sep 26 02:41:35 there's always a package Sep 26 02:48:57 alright Sep 26 02:49:01 i got it to untar and crap Sep 26 02:49:06 now i need to try installing fennec again Sep 26 02:56:31 gregorovius: heh Sep 26 02:56:49 Jaredu: hope it goes well. Sep 26 02:57:03 hasnt so far Sep 26 02:57:12 stupid stupid stupid >.< Sep 26 02:57:17 same freakin' think Sep 26 02:58:31 thing Sep 26 02:59:33 HAH Sep 26 02:59:36 i made it work xD **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Sep 26 02:59:56 2008