**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 28 02:59:57 2008
Sep 28 03:17:56 <vdepizzol> :)
Sep 28 03:36:50 <prak> i've noticed that there is a map application written by Wayfinder Systems on os2008 on nokia n810. however, the license for it has expired. What would you recommend in terms of map application to get it working with the built-in gps on the n810?
Sep 28 03:37:42 <GeneralAntilles> Maemo Mapper
Sep 28 03:38:02 <prak> thanks
Sep 28 04:12:45 <nikosapi> hey can someone take a look at this: http://slexy.org/view/s21kyQEyAb
Sep 28 04:13:25 <nikosapi> I'm getting a bunch of "FAT: Directory bread(block 3972991) failed ... attempt to access beyond end of device" in my dmesg
Sep 28 04:13:54 <nikosapi> here's my dmesg: http://slexy.org/view/s2kx96QYVE
Sep 28 04:14:00 <GeneralAntilles> Um, is your partition table screwed?
Sep 28 04:14:07 <nikosapi> it looks like it
Sep 28 04:14:14 <GeneralAntilles> Reformat?
Sep 28 04:14:25 <KotCzarny> repartition first
Sep 28 04:14:34 <nikosapi> can I safely do that on the n810 itself?
Sep 28 04:14:50 <KotCzarny> sure, backup what's left first
Sep 28 04:15:00 <nikosapi> heh, ok :)
Sep 28 04:15:05 <KotCzarny> although it's easier via usb
Sep 28 04:15:17 <nikosapi> oh, ok. I'll that then
Sep 28 04:15:22 <nikosapi> I'll do*
Sep 28 04:15:36 <KotCzarny> any lin/win partition program will do
Sep 28 04:15:54 <KotCzarny> mac too
Sep 28 04:16:24 <nikosapi> I'll just use good old cfdisk :)
Sep 28 04:17:54 <nikosapi> huh, "Cannot find a partition table on the disk"
Sep 28 04:18:02 <KotCzarny> start with zero partition
Sep 28 04:18:04 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 04:18:47 <nikosapi> oh, I have /dev/sdc and /dev/sdc1, sdc1 has a partition table... is that right? O_o
Sep 28 04:19:03 <KotCzarny> probably not
Sep 28 04:19:05 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 04:19:21 <nikosapi> how the hell did this happen? :P
Sep 28 04:19:39 <KotCzarny> maybe some kind of sectors hiding?
Sep 28 04:19:58 <KotCzarny> and how come you have sdc1
Sep 28 04:20:06 <KotCzarny> if sdc doesn't have partition table?
Sep 28 04:20:07 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 04:20:13 <nikosapi> no idea
Sep 28 04:23:37 <nikosapi> crap, now it won't boot :P
Sep 28 04:23:47 <Navi> WOO
Sep 28 04:23:50 <nikosapi> hehe
Sep 28 04:23:52 <KotCzarny> O.o
Sep 28 04:24:09 <nikosapi> I don't really care I had just reflashed it anyway
Sep 28 04:24:29 <KotCzarny> what have you done to it?
Sep 28 04:24:29 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 04:24:49 * nikosapi blames KotCzarny ;D
Sep 28 04:25:49 <KotCzarny> sure, but what have you done :)
Sep 28 04:26:11 <nikosapi> I just repartitioned and reformted
Sep 28 04:26:24 <nikosapi> although, I am quite sleepy
Sep 28 04:26:28 <KotCzarny> unless you had it setup to boot from sd
Sep 28 04:26:33 <KotCzarny> it shouldn't matter :)
Sep 28 04:29:26 * nikosapi admits defeat and reflashes...
Sep 28 04:29:55 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 04:32:50 <nikosapi> hey, how come on the n810 the internal memory gets mounted on /media/mmc2?
Sep 28 04:33:01 <nikosapi> instead of mmc1
Sep 28 04:33:11 <Getkeys> mmc1 is the minisd slot
Sep 28 04:34:27 <nikosapi> /dev/mmcblk0 is the internal memory...
Sep 28 04:34:46 <nikosapi> /dev/mmcblk1 is the minisd
Sep 28 04:34:50 <nikosapi> no?
Sep 28 04:34:52 <KotCzarny> yes
Sep 28 04:35:00 <KotCzarny> but mount on mmc2 and mmc1
Sep 28 04:35:06 <Kegetys> there's two internal memories
Sep 28 04:35:40 <KotCzarny> don't ask me why internal memory (internal slot on n800) mount on mmc2
Sep 28 04:35:53 <KotCzarny> *mounts
Sep 28 04:35:58 <nikosapi> So why mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 on mmc2 and /dev/mmcblk1p1 on mmc1? It seems ... backwards :P
Sep 28 04:36:22 <prak> is maemo based on deb or rpm?
Sep 28 04:36:26 <KotCzarny> deb
Sep 28 04:36:26 <nikosapi> deb
Sep 28 04:36:30 <prak> ic
Sep 28 04:36:31 <prak> thanks
Sep 28 04:36:33 <KotCzarny> first!
Sep 28 04:36:40 <nikosapi> hehe
Sep 28 04:37:07 <Kegetys> could be just an engineering thing, maybe they wired one of the mmc connectors to the now-soldered memory without paying attention to how it is mapped in software side
Sep 28 04:37:40 <KotCzarny> more likely they started with mmc2 being used for something
Sep 28 04:37:58 <KotCzarny> and then there was no going back to normal
Sep 28 04:38:13 <nikosapi> mkay
Sep 28 04:42:38 <prak> i'm having some trouble installing maemo mapper due to the dependencies; would the easiest way involve adding the repo to the application manager?
Sep 28 04:42:52 <KotCzarny> clicking install on maemo.org
Sep 28 04:44:09 <GeneralAntilles> nikosapi, because of the 770.
Sep 28 04:44:26 <GeneralAntilles> Kegetys, no, that makes no sense. :P
Sep 28 04:44:39 <nikosapi> GeneralAntilles: heh, how?
Sep 28 04:45:06 <GeneralAntilles> It only had one slot, the external slot and it was mmc1.
Sep 28 04:45:35 <nikosapi> ah, that makes sense!
Sep 28 04:47:23 <GeneralAntilles> Not the most logical thing in the world, but such is the way with legacy issues. ;)
Sep 28 04:51:46 <nikosapi> huh, now check this out: http://slexy.org/view/s20JfsrqwT
Sep 28 04:52:08 <KotCzarny> and?
Sep 28 04:52:15 <nikosapi> is it just me or are the sizes switched?
Sep 28 04:52:24 <nikosapi> I have a 4GB sd card in there
Sep 28 04:52:33 <KotCzarny> nope
Sep 28 04:52:34 <KotCzarny> still
Sep 28 04:52:40 <KotCzarny> internal at mmc2
Sep 28 04:52:47 <KotCzarny> everything as expected
Sep 28 04:53:13 <nikosapi> look: 254     0    3996160 mmcblk0, which corresponds to: /dev/mmcblk0p1   1956056
Sep 28 04:53:29 <KotCzarny> see above
Sep 28 04:54:33 <nikosapi> right, but why does /proc/partitions list mmcblk0p1 as having 3992064 blocks?
Sep 28 04:54:49 <nikosapi> isn't that the internal card?
Sep 28 04:55:15 <KotCzarny> don't know, as long internal is at mmc2, right?
Sep 28 04:55:30 <prak> would the easiest way of installing maemo mapper be going on maemo's website and download the .install file?
Sep 28 04:55:37 <nikosapi> yes
Sep 28 04:56:03 <KotCzarny> another easy way is enabling extras and installing via app-man
Sep 28 04:56:04 <GeneralAntilles> prak, just pull it from Chinook Extras.
Sep 28 04:56:11 <nikosapi> KotCzarny: hmm, lemme try something...
Sep 28 04:56:16 <prak> Chinook Extras?
Sep 28 04:56:20 <prak> how would i set that up?
Sep 28 04:56:25 <KotCzarny> niko: eject card and reboot?
Sep 28 04:56:26 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 04:56:38 <prak> my package manager isn't set up properly to install from chinook extra
Sep 28 04:56:40 <prak> *extras
Sep 28 04:56:51 <KotCzarny> prak: it's already set up probably, you need to uncheck the 'disable' box
Sep 28 04:57:19 <prak> i've opened the .install file now and chinook extras is added to the repo
Sep 28 04:58:18 <nikosapi> I'm gunna see what happens when I fill up the internal storage
Sep 28 04:58:37 <KotCzarny> if you repartitioned/reformatted it right
Sep 28 04:58:38 <KotCzarny> nothing
Sep 28 04:58:40 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 04:58:46 <nikosapi> I hope so
Sep 28 05:01:25 <nikosapi> jeez, the internal flash is slow
Sep 28 05:01:41 <KotCzarny> n800 > n810
Sep 28 05:01:42 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 05:01:52 <nikosapi> nah, keyboards ftw!
Sep 28 05:02:16 * KotCzarny has bt kb
Sep 28 05:02:27 <nikosapi> mhmm
Sep 28 05:02:56 <nikosapi> gps is fun too, although I find the camera useless
Sep 28 05:03:17 <KotCzarny> at least on n800 you can turn it to the other side
Sep 28 05:03:18 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 05:03:23 <nikosapi> right
Sep 28 05:03:29 <KotCzarny> but i agree, a little useless
Sep 28 05:04:01 <nikosapi> meh, I'm lucky I even got an n810, these things are hard to come by
Sep 28 05:04:16 <nikosapi> I had to wait a month before it shipped
Sep 28 05:04:28 <KotCzarny> O.o
Sep 28 05:05:04 <nikosapi> yeah...
Sep 28 05:05:14 <KotCzarny> isn't your ip from nj ?
Sep 28 05:05:27 <nikosapi> hehe, no that's my server
Sep 28 05:05:31 <KotCzarny> ahm
Sep 28 05:05:40 <nikosapi> I live in Quebec
Sep 28 05:05:58 <KotCzarny> you could have get it from ebay.com
Sep 28 05:05:59 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 05:06:10 <nikosapi> nah, I wanted a new one
Sep 28 05:06:15 <KotCzarny> why?
Sep 28 05:06:43 <nikosapi> call me crazy but I like new things :P
Sep 28 05:07:10 <nikosapi> also, I don't really trust ebay for expensive stuff
Sep 28 05:07:33 <KotCzarny> oh well
Sep 28 05:07:54 <nikosapi> the important thing is that I'm quite happy with what I've got
Sep 28 05:08:00 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 05:08:07 <KotCzarny> yeah, they are likeable
Sep 28 05:08:53 <nikosapi> hey, any mobile device with python on it is awesome by me :D
Sep 28 05:09:26 <KotCzarny> for me rule is having sshd
Sep 28 05:09:27 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 05:10:10 <nikosapi> my archos has sshd on it and I haven't used it in months...
Sep 28 05:14:02 <nikosapi> 600MB to go!
Sep 28 05:19:29 <nikosapi> cool, it worked, no errors
Sep 28 05:19:41 <KotCzarny> another happy customer
Sep 28 05:20:02 <KotCzarny> anyone knows if nokia know about that partition problem?
Sep 28 05:20:13 <KotCzarny> and if they are going to do anything about it?
Sep 28 05:20:19 <KotCzarny> *knows
Sep 28 05:20:46 <nikosapi> I read a bug report about a similar problem
Sep 28 05:21:19 <nikosapi> the funny thing is that I didn't have any issues for the 3-4 months that I've had it
Sep 28 05:21:44 <nikosapi> but I think it's because I accidentally filled the disk with podcasts
Sep 28 05:21:56 <GeneralAntilles> Is this the built-in 2GB?
Sep 28 05:22:03 * GeneralAntilles wasn't paying attention.
Sep 28 05:22:08 <nikosapi> that must of triggered the error. GeneralAntilles: yep
Sep 28 05:22:15 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, yeah.
Sep 28 05:22:18 <GeneralAntilles> It was a factory error
Sep 28 05:22:22 <GeneralAntilles> Fixed long ago.
Sep 28 05:22:24 <nikosapi> hah
Sep 28 05:22:35 <GeneralAntilles> Like, back in January.
Sep 28 05:22:40 <nikosapi> then I got an oldie :P
Sep 28 05:22:41 <KotCzarny> but he got his n810 NEW
Sep 28 05:22:43 <KotCzarny> ;)
Sep 28 05:23:06 <nikosapi> hey it takes a while to ship from Finland :P
Sep 28 05:23:14 <KotCzarny> 8 months?
Sep 28 05:23:18 <nikosapi> yes
Sep 28 05:23:21 <KotCzarny> not true
Sep 28 05:23:22 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 05:23:25 <GeneralAntilles> Stock usually doesn't move instantly.
Sep 28 05:23:26 <nikosapi> hehe
Sep 28 05:26:34 <Navi> They would if they used my magic.
Sep 28 05:27:38 <GeneralAntilles> That shit's expensive, though.
Sep 28 05:33:01 <nikosapi> thanks a lot for the the help guys
Sep 28 05:33:05 * nikosapi goes to sleep
Sep 28 05:33:14 <KotCzarny> go go
Sep 28 05:36:07 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, RST38h.
Sep 28 06:39:35 <RST38h> moo, general
Sep 28 07:37:07 <zap> ahem... anybody knows what I must do to make pygtk work in scratchbox?
Sep 28 07:37:24 <KotCzarny> what is the error?
Sep 28 07:37:27 <zap> I see that python2.5-gtk2 is installed by default, but "import gtk" will throw an exception
Sep 28 07:37:39 <zap> says "no module named gtk"
Sep 28 07:37:48 <KotCzarny> try import gtk2 ?
Sep 28 07:37:50 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 07:37:57 <zap> same ass
Sep 28 07:38:01 <KotCzarny> hrm
Sep 28 07:38:05 <zap> import gtk works on tablet
Sep 28 07:38:06 <KotCzarny> check paths?
Sep 28 07:38:09 <zap> but not on scratchbox
Sep 28 07:38:22 <zap> well, it's the same package both on tablet and in scratchbox
Sep 28 07:38:24 <KotCzarny> can python list what it finds and where?
Sep 28 07:38:35 <zap> no idea :)
Sep 28 07:38:44 <KotCzarny> run via strace ?
Sep 28 07:38:46 <zap> usually it finds its guts automagically
Sep 28 07:38:53 <zap> aha, good idea
Sep 28 07:39:13 <melmoth> import gtk should work on scratchbox
Sep 28 07:39:56 <zap> shame
Sep 28 07:39:57 <melmoth> zap: up to date diablo sdk ?
Sep 28 07:40:06 <zap> it looks for its guts under /scratchbox/tools/
Sep 28 07:40:12 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 07:40:13 <zap> melmoth: well, its diablo SDK
Sep 28 07:40:19 <zap> dunno how to check if it's up to date
Sep 28 07:40:21 <KotCzarny> symlink?
Sep 28 07:40:30 <KotCzarny> zap: apt-get upgrade ?
Sep 28 07:40:31 <KotCzarny> ;)
Sep 28 07:40:31 <zap> I'll have to, but its strange
Sep 28 07:40:34 <KotCzarny> or update
Sep 28 07:40:55 <zap> 58Mb to download
Sep 28 07:40:58 <zap> oh my :)
Sep 28 07:41:05 <KotCzarny> backup first
Sep 28 07:41:06 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 07:41:09 <zap> ahaha
Sep 28 07:41:23 <zap> I'm an adventurous person, and lazy
Sep 28 07:41:37 <KotCzarny> me too
Sep 28 07:41:38 <zap> I'll fix it manually, if anything goes wrong ;)
Sep 28 07:41:45 <KotCzarny> i'm still using chinook on nit and sb
Sep 28 07:49:36 <zap> hehe, after upgrade same thing
Sep 28 07:50:30 <KotCzarny> does python allow for include paths?
Sep 28 07:51:18 <zap> aha, found whats the problem
Sep 28 07:51:31 <zap> looks like I have a old maemo-tools tarball unpacked in my rootfs
Sep 28 07:51:42 <zap> it contains python2.3
Sep 28 07:51:49 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 07:54:38 <zap> scratchbox-devkit-maemo3-1.0.3
Sep 28 07:54:41 <zap> strange
Sep 28 07:57:51 <liri> I'll be in Berlin at the 5th through the 7th of October
Sep 28 07:57:56 <liri> any interesting events?
Sep 28 07:58:04 <KotCzarny> octoberfest?
Sep 28 07:59:12 <zap> aha, it should be related to PYTHONPATH not including /usr/lib/python2.3
Sep 28 07:59:13 <liri> I mean like interesting linux confs :)
Sep 28 07:59:22 <liri> actually I'll be at work all day so that only leaves the evening...
Sep 28 07:59:40 <prak> what calendar software would you recommend to sync with google calendar?
Sep 28 08:01:15 <zap> finally got it... 'python' is a i386 app, and my env is ARM... looks like python development must be done under i386
Sep 28 08:01:31 <KotCzarny> must?
Sep 28 08:01:37 <liri> prak: there's mcalendar though it needs some more work
Sep 28 08:01:38 <KotCzarny> just install armel one?
Sep 28 08:02:49 <KotCzarny> isn't the idea behind sb + qemu that you run armel binaries?
Sep 28 08:02:51 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 08:03:32 <zap> nope
Sep 28 08:03:42 <zap> i386 env is recommended everywhere
Sep 28 08:03:51 <KotCzarny> bah.
Sep 28 08:03:59 <zap> arm emulation is incomplete, alas (arm kernel has some syscalls missing on x86)
Sep 28 08:04:00 <KotCzarny> naver saw any of those recommendations
Sep 28 08:04:09 <KotCzarny> zap, get newer qemu
Sep 28 08:04:10 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 08:04:12 <zap> I remember reading this somewhere
Sep 28 08:04:22 <zap> its not about qemu, it's about arm and x86 kernel differences
Sep 28 08:04:30 <KotCzarny> it's all about qemu
Sep 28 08:04:34 <zap> nope
Sep 28 08:04:35 <KotCzarny> :>
Sep 28 08:04:51 <zap> qemu just redirects kernel syscalls to host kernel
Sep 28 08:05:01 <zap> and host kernel is x86, but tries to mimic an arm kernel
Sep 28 08:05:15 <KotCzarny> well
Sep 28 08:05:30 <KotCzarny> for me upgrading qemu helped to get rid of some of those missing syscalls
Sep 28 08:06:04 <zap> um
Sep 28 08:06:08 <zap> the qemu from scratchbox?
Sep 28 08:06:15 <KotCzarny> yes
Sep 28 08:06:26 <KotCzarny> sb1 to be exact
Sep 28 08:07:15 <prak> anything else other than mcalendar?
Sep 28 08:07:40 <zap> KotCzarny: have you tried to run some more or less complex gtk app under newer qemu? They usually work, but tend to crash unexpectedly
Sep 28 08:08:01 <KotCzarny> zap: nothing graphical, because i test my bins on n800 (via sshfs)
Sep 28 08:08:43 <matahari> morning
Sep 28 08:08:52 <KotCzarny> mourning
Sep 28 08:09:19 <matahari> yesterday i cloned my n810 to my SD card, using the howto i got here....
Sep 28 08:09:38 <KotCzarny> congrats
Sep 28 08:09:58 <matahari> BUT there are some issues: my SD Card is 4GB. I partitioned it to use 500 MB as FAT, 500MB as swap and the rest should be ext2
Sep 28 08:10:10 <KotCzarny> and?
Sep 28 08:10:46 <GeneralAntilles> 500MB swap? :\
Sep 28 08:10:48 <matahari> but when i boot from sd, and i enter "df -h" 1) it shows me that /dev/mmcblk1p2 is only 4MB in size
Sep 28 08:11:04 <matahari> and strangely it uses the internal card to boot
Sep 28 08:11:10 <matahari> (seems so)
Sep 28 08:11:13 <zap> 500Mb looks like a bit of overkill :)
Sep 28 08:11:15 <KotCzarny> then you did something wrong
Sep 28 08:11:17 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 08:11:18 <zap> greedy you :)
Sep 28 08:11:21 <matahari> really strange
Sep 28 08:11:41 <matahari> i did everything like in the howto, i just exchanged mmcblk0 with mmcblk1
Sep 28 08:11:49 <GeneralAntilles> zap, 62.5MB? :P
Sep 28 08:12:03 <GeneralAntilles> matahari, you entered the wrong numbers in sfdisk.
Sep 28 08:12:04 <zap> GeneralAntilles: 256 max should be usable
Sep 28 08:12:37 <GeneralAntilles> zap, Mb == megabit, MB == megabyte
Sep 28 08:12:40 <matahari> GeneralAntilles: but why is booting from SD possible?
Sep 28 08:12:47 <KotCzarny> why not?
Sep 28 08:13:01 <matahari> it is not booting from internal sd, but it says it's booting from internal sd
Sep 28 08:13:05 <zap> GeneralAntilles: in this case, mibibytes
Sep 28 08:13:22 <zap> sorry, Mebibyte %-O
Sep 28 08:13:33 <matahari> okay, so i should clone again?
Sep 28 08:13:37 <KotCzarny> chibibyte?
Sep 28 08:13:43 <GeneralAntilles> Most retarded name ever.
Sep 28 08:13:47 <KotCzarny> matahari: check partitions layout first
Sep 28 08:13:54 <GeneralAntilles> Whoever thought that bit of nonsense up needs to be slaughtered.
Sep 28 08:13:58 <matahari> sfdisk -l says the following:
Sep 28 08:14:07 <KotCzarny> pastebin.com
Sep 28 08:14:29 <zap> 1MiB = 2^10KiB = 2^20 bytes :0-]
Sep 28 08:15:44 <matahari> patebin.com/m50714737
Sep 28 08:15:51 <matahari> pastebin.com/m50714737
Sep 28 08:16:30 <KotCzarny> hmm
Sep 28 08:16:47 <KotCzarny> sidenote: fix your internal partition layout
Sep 28 08:16:49 <KotCzarny> :>
Sep 28 08:16:59 <KotCzarny> or expect vfat corruption
Sep 28 08:17:02 <KotCzarny> sooner or later
Sep 28 08:17:09 <KotCzarny> 100% guaranteed
Sep 28 08:17:21 <matahari> KotCzarny: there are errors in the internal layout?
Sep 28 08:17:24 <KotCzarny> yes
Sep 28 08:17:28 <KotCzarny> check the numbers
Sep 28 08:17:34 <KotCzarny> Disk /dev/mmcblk0: 61440 cylinders
Sep 28 08:17:40 <KotCzarny>  /dev/mmcblk0p1          0+  62719
Sep 28 08:17:45 <matahari> oh!
Sep 28 08:17:52 <KotCzarny> factory error
Sep 28 08:18:06 <matahari> so, repartitioning should work?
Sep 28 08:18:17 <KotCzarny> as for the other card, remove that fourth partition
Sep 28 08:18:21 <KotCzarny> to remove confusion
Sep 28 08:18:55 <matahari> how can i remove it with sfdisk?
Sep 28 08:19:10 <KotCzarny> sfdisk --help ?
Sep 28 08:19:25 <KotCzarny> i'm not that intimate with sfdisk
Sep 28 08:19:26 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 08:19:54 <qwerty12_N800> sfdisk is retarded.  parted in extras would  be nice.
Sep 28 08:20:09 <KotCzarny> qwerty12: sfdisk is the tool included in busybox
Sep 28 08:20:11 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 08:20:19 <matahari> or cfdisk would be nice
Sep 28 08:20:23 <KotCzarny> does it's work
Sep 28 08:20:33 <KotCzarny> and can be scripted
Sep 28 08:20:36 <qwerty12_N800> meh, makes no difference to me, still is an odd pos
Sep 28 08:20:50 <qwerty12_N800> matahari: Stskeeps has cfdisk
Sep 28 08:21:48 <matahari> cool
Sep 28 08:21:55 <matahari> okay, back to my sd problem
Sep 28 08:22:06 <matahari> i will repartition and clone it again
Sep 28 08:22:17 <matahari> how big shall the swap partition be max?
Sep 28 08:22:20 <KotCzarny> nah, try just rebooting
Sep 28 08:22:31 <qwerty12_N800> http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser/dependancies/cfdisk.deb
Sep 28 08:22:38 <matahari> thx
Sep 28 08:22:45 <KotCzarny> shouldn't it be 'dependencies' ?
Sep 28 08:22:45 <matahari> just rebooting?
Sep 28 08:23:11 <KotCzarny> yup 'e'
Sep 28 08:23:25 <KotCzarny> matahari: yup
Sep 28 08:23:36 <qwerty12_N800> KotCzarny: maybe, but i don't think he would be keen on rewriting every link and his scripts ;)
Sep 28 08:23:50 <KotCzarny> qwerty: lazy!
Sep 28 08:24:06 <KotCzarny> hrm
Sep 28 08:24:15 <KotCzarny> apparently it's brit version
Sep 28 08:24:20 <KotCzarny> us version uses 'a'
Sep 28 08:24:48 <KotCzarny> stupid americans
Sep 28 08:24:49 <KotCzarny> ;)
Sep 28 08:24:58 * KotCzarny hides
Sep 28 08:25:21 <matahari> okay, rebooted
Sep 28 08:25:30 <KotCzarny> how's the df?
Sep 28 08:27:49 <matahari> http://pastebin.com/m48e82d6d
Sep 28 08:28:34 <KotCzarny> i think you can ignore that first line
Sep 28 08:28:41 <KotCzarny> it's initfs
Sep 28 08:28:45 <matahari> ok
Sep 28 08:28:57 <KotCzarny> and your / is on #
Sep 28 08:29:02 <KotCzarny>  /dev/mmcblk0p2          645.9M    263.5M    349.6M  43% /
Sep 28 08:29:22 <matahari> that means my / is on the internal storage card?
Sep 28 08:29:26 <KotCzarny> yes
Sep 28 08:29:39 <matahari> why that???? i didn't want that
Sep 28 08:29:54 <matahari> i wanted that everything runs from the external card, and is not touching the internal card...
Sep 28 08:29:59 <matahari> i think i missed something....
Sep 28 08:30:34 <KotCzarny> unless it's just lying
Sep 28 08:31:32 <KotCzarny> but numbers are consistent with your earlier partition table i think
Sep 28 08:32:09 <matahari> the funny thing is that there is no partition mmcblk0p2!
Sep 28 08:32:20 <matahari> mmcblk0 has only one partition
Sep 28 08:33:40 <KotCzarny> my question is where did it found that 600+mb partition
Sep 28 08:33:43 <KotCzarny> :>
Sep 28 08:34:11 <matahari> my question too....
Sep 28 08:34:16 <matahari> it's all extremely strange
Sep 28 08:34:27 <KotCzarny> some defaults in the cloning script?
Sep 28 08:34:29 <matahari> but i did it exactly using the howto....
Sep 28 08:34:40 <KotCzarny> you didn't adapted to your partition layout?
Sep 28 08:34:52 <KotCzarny> ie. creating big partition
Sep 28 08:34:59 <KotCzarny> but small filesystem on it
Sep 28 08:35:29 <KotCzarny> it should be 3+ gigs, right?
Sep 28 08:36:05 <KotCzarny> hrm
Sep 28 08:36:18 <matahari> i adapted it
Sep 28 08:36:28 <KotCzarny> another idea is that you cloned to internal partition
Sep 28 08:36:30 <KotCzarny> :>
Sep 28 08:36:40 <KotCzarny> somehow
Sep 28 08:36:41 <KotCzarny> ;)
Sep 28 08:36:51 <matahari> i used for p1: 1,15000,6    p2: 15001, 100000,82  p3: 115001, ,83
Sep 28 08:37:39 <KotCzarny> i assume you don't have any useful data on sd int/ext, right?
Sep 28 08:38:05 <KotCzarny> try deleting internal partitions, and using only  blk1 ones when cloning
Sep 28 08:38:33 <matahari> sorry, i don't understand. how do you mean?
Sep 28 08:38:44 <KotCzarny> do over
Sep 28 08:38:48 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 08:39:08 <KotCzarny> checking what and where
Sep 28 08:39:37 <KotCzarny> and you don't need p3
Sep 28 08:40:18 <matahari> okay
Sep 28 08:40:52 <matahari> so you mean i shall delete all partitions on int and ext?
Sep 28 08:40:58 <matahari> and then make a new part table?
Sep 28 08:41:02 <KotCzarny> to be free of confusion
Sep 28 08:41:15 <matahari> okay
Sep 28 08:41:19 <KotCzarny> because apparently at some point you messed blk0 and blk1
Sep 28 08:41:23 <matahari> ok
Sep 28 08:41:24 <KotCzarny> but it's just my guess
Sep 28 08:41:43 <matahari> and i shall not create a swap parititon?
Sep 28 08:41:56 <KotCzarny> you can create it later
Sep 28 08:42:22 <KotCzarny> or just use swapfile
Sep 28 08:42:37 <matahari> OK
Sep 28 08:42:43 <matahari> will take some time
Sep 28 08:42:46 <matahari> thanks
Sep 28 08:42:50 <RST38h> The US Army will have to pay $25,000 for each weapon, plus $25 for each programmable 25mm round.
Sep 28 08:42:58 <RST38h> This is for a MACHINE GUN.
Sep 28 08:43:08 <GeneralAntilles> Assault rifle. :P
Sep 28 08:43:08 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 08:43:14 <RST38h> Ok, assault rifle.
Sep 28 08:43:15 <GeneralAntilles> But they're so awesome.
Sep 28 08:43:34 <KotCzarny> deficit? what deficit
Sep 28 08:43:36 <RST38h> Not when they are paid off from my taxes
Sep 28 08:43:40 <KotCzarny> we've got guns
Sep 28 08:43:41 <KotCzarny> :>
Sep 28 08:44:11 * qwerty12_N800 would ask for a weapon from them but when they saw me, i'd be the target :p
Sep 28 08:44:15 <KotCzarny> what can you do?
Sep 28 08:44:23 <RST38h> Not pay taxes?
Sep 28 08:44:39 <KotCzarny> they say irs is worse than army
Sep 28 08:46:14 <KotCzarny> not to mention there's no use in keeping money
Sep 28 08:50:41 <prak> does anyone know if gpecalendar has been made to sync to google calendar on a n810?
Sep 28 08:50:55 <qwerty12_N800> erming
Sep 28 08:51:08 <qwerty12_N800> smthing like that anyway
Sep 28 08:51:50 <prak> is erming another software?
Sep 28 08:52:03 <qwerty12_N800> yes. it's in extras.
Sep 28 08:52:59 <prak> thanks
Sep 28 09:00:34 * qwerty12_N800 makes a note to remember to delete userport driver before installing vista
Sep 28 09:00:56 <KotCzarny> better delete whole vista
Sep 28 09:00:57 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 09:01:37 <qwerty12_N800> nah, i don't have an xp mce disk that will accept my hp oem key
Sep 28 09:01:49 <KotCzarny> download one?
Sep 28 09:02:14 <melmoth> seen ajf
Sep 28 09:02:27 <qwerty12_N800> can't be arsed in all honesty to do so
Sep 28 09:02:29 <melmoth> how does the 'seen' bot command works again ?
Sep 28 09:02:32 <qwerty12_N800> ~seen  ajf
Sep 28 09:02:34 <infobot> i haven't seen 'ajf', qwerty12_N800
Sep 28 09:02:45 <melmoth> grumble
Sep 28 09:29:33 <matahari> KotCzarny: i think i messed everything up again
Sep 28 09:29:41 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 09:29:44 <matahari> mmcblk0 = mmc2 and mmcblk1 = mmc1?
Sep 28 09:29:49 <KotCzarny> yes
Sep 28 09:30:01 <matahari> now it won't boot from sd anymore
Sep 28 09:30:14 <matahari> maybe some bootmenu setting is wrong...
Sep 28 09:30:18 <KotCzarny> well, maybe
Sep 28 09:30:25 <KotCzarny> try doing as i suggested
Sep 28 09:30:34 <KotCzarny> to remove all partitions on internal sd
Sep 28 09:30:34 <matahari> but the default file should be fine as i read
Sep 28 09:30:44 <KotCzarny> and trying all boot options
Sep 28 09:30:58 <matahari> i removed all partitions on int an ext and created new partitions
Sep 28 09:31:38 <KotCzarny> and it didn't boot no matter what mmc you choose?
Sep 28 09:31:51 <matahari> well, didn't tried the internal
Sep 28 09:31:53 <matahari> one sec
Sep 28 09:33:28 <matahari> internal doesn't work too
Sep 28 09:33:47 <KotCzarny> hum
Sep 28 09:35:35 <matahari> the strange thing is that in bootmenu external = mmc2 and internal = immc2
Sep 28 09:35:51 <KotCzarny> bootmenu is configurable
Sep 28 09:35:58 <lukegee> hi there, question: I'm going to buy a nokia n810. my question is what irc client do you advise me
Sep 28 09:36:22 <KotCzarny> lukegee: x-chat, pidgin, epic, irsii, whatever you like
Sep 28 09:37:01 <qwerty12> lukegee, what client are you using now?
Sep 28 09:37:06 <lukegee> hm I would prefer xchat, but how does ist look on the 800x400 display? isn't it overkill?
Sep 28 09:37:12 <lukegee> qwerty12, xchat
Sep 28 09:37:20 <matahari> KotCzarny: i will configure bootmenu again and try again
Sep 28 09:37:22 <qwerty12> lukegee, works perfectly on N800 even
Sep 28 09:37:44 <KotCzarny> lukegee, make your window 800x480 then and see
Sep 28 09:37:45 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 09:38:07 <KotCzarny> more like 700x400 though
Sep 28 09:38:28 <qwerty12> lukegee, http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/nokia-n810-review.media/xchat.png & http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemoirc.jpg
Sep 28 09:38:53 <KotCzarny> qwerty, isn't it some old version?
Sep 28 09:39:09 <lukegee> hm ok I think that would be ok
Sep 28 09:39:11 <qwerty12> KotCzarny, xchat for chinook/diablo is the same in all honesty
Sep 28 09:39:16 <KotCzarny> ahm
Sep 28 09:40:00 <lukegee> and how does software downloads work? afaik maemo uses apt-get, not?
Sep 28 09:40:08 <lukegee> (sry, for my probably bad english ;) )
Sep 28 09:40:15 <KotCzarny> there is graphical app man
Sep 28 09:40:17 <qwerty12> lukegee, yep, apt-get & dpkg with a front end
Sep 28 09:40:27 <lukegee> ok, nice
Sep 28 09:40:28 <lukegee> thanks
Sep 28 09:56:06 <KotCzarny> qwerty: having fun?
Sep 28 09:56:32 <qwerty12> KotCzarny, of course :P
Sep 28 09:56:35 <KotCzarny> :>
Sep 28 10:02:16 <liri> my country isn't exactly in a square shape and I wanted to get all of it but there are many dead areas (ocean) so I'm downloading maps in chunks of longs' and latit', maemo mapper would be able to manage that, right?
Sep 28 10:02:32 <KotCzarny> manage what?
Sep 28 10:03:58 <liri> the navigation
Sep 28 10:04:11 <KotCzarny> hum
Sep 28 10:04:26 <liri> I mean, it's just pictures so I'm hoping it wouldn't have a problem
Sep 28 10:04:40 <KotCzarny> you are talking about maps or navigation now?
Sep 28 10:04:42 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 10:04:53 <liri> uhh.. didn't realize it's not the same
Sep 28 10:04:56 <liri> well, maps I think
Sep 28 10:05:02 <KotCzarny> maps are bitmaps usually
Sep 28 10:05:12 <KotCzarny> navigation uses vectorized paths
Sep 28 10:05:14 <liri> I'm doing the download with winmapper, it's easier for me because there are many "squares"
Sep 28 10:05:33 <KotCzarny> unless i'm missing something
Sep 28 10:05:52 <liri> so to do navigation I also need to download "route" for the same long/lat?
Sep 28 10:06:12 <KotCzarny> probably.. unless it's included
Sep 28 10:06:29 <liri> yickes
Sep 28 10:06:44 <KotCzarny> you may try testing it on something small
Sep 28 10:06:45 <KotCzarny> :)
Sep 28 10:08:49 <liri> yeah that's what I'm going to do
Sep 28 10:17:40 * lcuk smiles
Sep 28 10:19:15 <KotCzarny> rst38h: http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/09/23/bailout-paulson-congress-biz-beltway-cx_jz_bw_0923bailout.html
Sep 28 10:19:16 <KotCzarny> lol
Sep 28 10:33:34 <matan> liri: Are you talking about Israel?
Sep 28 10:34:08 <liri> matan: hey matan, yeah.
Sep 28 10:34:23 <liri> matan: did you just get all of israel in one chunk of long/lat?
Sep 28 10:35:40 <matan> liri: Please try freemap-il. I added it to extras-devel repo yesterday.
Sep 28 10:36:57 <liri> matan: is that the roadmap_editor version of freemap.co.il?
Sep 28 10:37:11 <matan> Yes.
Sep 28 10:37:36 <liri> matan: we already got that working with your binaries
Sep 28 10:38:04 <matan> liri: Then what advantage does maemo mapper have?
Sep 28 10:38:17 <liri> matan: I think using maemo mapper in this case is better though cause google got everything mapped out already and the maps are MUCH cleaner to understand
Sep 28 10:39:40 <liri> matan: did you trying using maemo mapper with Israeli maps for navigation?
Sep 28 10:46:29 <matan> I don't think it will work. maemo mapper routing uses a script on gnuite's site. This will need to be changed.
Sep 28 11:20:44 * lcuk lurks
Sep 28 11:38:36 <matahari> i messed things up with my n810 again. I cloned using the howto provided in the wiki (adapting them to the external SD). i documented all steps here: http://pastebin.com/m1446f235 . Now my n810 hangs on booting from SD showing only the NOKIA screen with the progress bar....
Sep 28 11:49:13 <matahari> KotCzarny: could you please take a look?
Sep 28 12:33:18 <AStorm> seems like modest from diablo can't read utf8 subjects
Sep 28 12:34:53 <AStorm> that means, I get ?utf-8?...
Sep 28 12:35:10 <AStorm> and undecoded quoted printable
Sep 28 12:36:43 <AStorm> or maybe linux bugzilla is sending these wrong...
Sep 28 12:52:51 <nikosapi> Is there a way to access the root parition of an n810 that doesn't boot all the way?
Sep 28 12:59:15 <AStorm> nikosapi: yes, by modifying initfs
Sep 28 12:59:31 <AStorm> or changing startup scripts
Sep 28 13:00:12 <nikosapi> can I do that without having to reflash?
Sep 28 13:00:51 <AStorm> you can flash partially, e.g. just initfs
Sep 28 13:01:05 <nikosapi> oh really? :D
Sep 28 13:01:17 <AStorm> yarly
Sep 28 13:02:18 <AStorm> what's the recommended way of getting root on diablo?
Sep 28 13:02:41 <nikosapi> I think it's to install the rootsh package available in the extras repo
Sep 28 13:02:56 <nikosapi> (you have to enable it first)
Sep 28 13:03:14 <nikosapi> then you can run rootsh or su gainroot
Sep 28 13:05:29 <AStorm> ok, worked well
Sep 28 13:21:40 <mavhc> has anyone run any of the google mobile apps on an n810?
Sep 28 13:23:05 <johnx> mavhc, you mean with palmOS emulation?
Sep 28 13:25:15 <StsN800> lo johnx
Sep 28 13:25:17 <AStorm> hmm, is there a way to display alt/title tag with maemo-browser?
Sep 28 13:25:28 <johnx> lo StsN800. how goes your adventure?
Sep 28 13:26:19 <StsN800> was quite good, was nice to get away to recharge a bit
Sep 28 13:26:50 <StsN800> stepped off plane 20 min ago
Sep 28 13:26:51 <mavhc> johnx: suppose it's either that or java if that works
Sep 28 13:27:23 <johnx> StsN800, well, I have a setup that I'm willing to call "good enough" for matchbox-keyboard
Sep 28 13:28:04 <StsN800> sawfish + lxde?
Sep 28 13:28:08 <johnx> Yup
Sep 28 13:28:17 <johnx> sawfish+anything would be fine I'm sure
Sep 28 13:28:29 <StsN800> what quirks then?
Sep 28 13:29:13 <johnx> you have to move or remaximize windows after you pull up the keyboard
Sep 28 13:29:29 <StsN800> ah
Sep 28 13:29:54 <johnx> I want to get something out now that's an improvement on the current situation, then I'll look at scripting movement of the windows and remaximizing
Sep 28 13:30:18 <johnx> I *know* that I can do what I'm thinking of with sawfish...it's just a matter of figuring it out
Sep 28 13:30:18 <StsN800> *nod*
Sep 28 13:31:14 <AStorm> johnx, mine will be better.. I'll try to get awesome-3 to work
Sep 28 13:31:32 <johnx> AStorm, what are you working on?
Sep 28 13:31:51 <AStorm> do we have xcb-enabled packages?
Sep 28 13:32:18 <AStorm> (cairo to be exact)
Sep 28 13:32:18 <StsN800> seems that my apt installer got received well so i'll push out a new installer soon
Sep 28 13:33:05 <johnx> AStorm, if debian has them, we do :)
Sep 28 13:33:14 <johnx> AStorm, coding a new keyboard or what?
Sep 28 13:33:28 <StsN800> and my friend got his 770 so we'll make a minimal one for it
Sep 28 13:33:59 <AStorm> johnx, problem, debian doesn't have them
Sep 28 13:34:12 <AStorm> it's a compile option and few added deps away
Sep 28 13:34:36 <johnx> AStorm, well, we can make a new package and put it in Stskeeps repo I guess
Sep 28 13:34:41 <AStorm> johnx, awesome is a wm :> not sure if its mouse support is good enough
Sep 28 13:34:49 <johnx> AStorm, aaah
Sep 28 13:35:42 <johnx> AStorm, well, this is debian, we have room for lots of desktops...but I'll keep going with my project too :)
Sep 28 13:35:43 <AStorm> otoh, I can finish mine wm... which uses pure gtk... but is in python, not too tablet-friendly
Sep 28 13:36:10 <AStorm> *my even
Sep 28 13:36:20 <StsN800> my next steps is apt repo mirroring, signing and uploading packages from maintainers
Sep 28 13:40:40 <StsN800> .. and look at qoles dm-loop for deblet-in-a-file, and b-mans cdeb2
Sep 28 13:54:44 <RST38h> ~curse MIPS instruction set for not providing in-opcode shifts, 32bit immediates, register+register addressation, stack operations, and just being plain stupid
Sep 28 13:54:45 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, MIPS instruction set for not providing in-opcode shifts, 32bit immediates, register+register addressation, stack operations, and just being plain stupid !
Sep 28 13:55:12 <johnx> RST38h, too RISCy?
Sep 28 13:55:59 <johnx> RST38h, actually, you've worked with ARM, MIPS and x86 right?...which is your favorite (or least hated)?
Sep 28 13:59:50 <RST38h> johnx: PDP11
Sep 28 14:00:13 <johnx> RST38h, really, so when's the VGBA port to PDP11 gonna be finished? :P
Sep 28 14:00:17 <RST38h> Seriously, ARM is the most reasonable one, out of the three listed
Sep 28 14:00:46 <RST38h> johnx: When you provide me with a 2GHz 32bit PDP11 =)
Sep 28 14:00:55 <johnx> heh
Sep 28 14:00:57 <RST38h> Have I mentioned superscalar? =)
Sep 28 14:01:45 <johnx> hey, if it can run Unix I don't see why it couldn't play video games. Just optimize more! *cracks the whip*
Sep 28 14:01:58 <RST38h> Z80 can run Unix.
Sep 28 14:02:10 <RST38h> Does not mean a thing =)
Sep 28 14:02:25 <johnx> yeah, forgot the </sarcasm>
Sep 28 14:02:32 <johnx> I assumed it was implied :P
Sep 28 14:02:37 <RST38h> Canon G10 high-ISO images are in - not as bad as expected
Sep 28 14:03:43 <johnx> anyways, I tried vgba today. Metroid is playable now, but not quite full speed. I'll probably be perfectly happy playing turn based RPGs though, so I'm happy
Sep 28 14:04:13 <RST38h> I suggest avoiding Nintendo's own games - they use too many features, too actively
Sep 28 14:04:24 <johnx> aaah, darn
Sep 28 14:04:33 <RST38h> F-Zero should be ok though
Sep 28 14:04:47 <johnx> *sniff* but I want metroid...*sniff*
Sep 28 14:06:16 <RST38h> Get the real thing or suffer =)
Sep 28 14:06:40 <RST38h> NES or GB version will also work, pretty well on appropriate emulators
Sep 28 14:06:43 <johnx> I'll get a pandora :)
Sep 28 14:07:15 <johnx> why settle for finesse when you can use brute force? :D
Sep 28 14:07:33 <RST38h> my guess is, you will not see Pandora
Sep 28 14:07:40 <RST38h> or, if you do, not for long
Sep 28 14:07:45 <johnx> not for long?
Sep 28 14:07:51 <johnx> think it'll break?
Sep 28 14:08:38 <johnx> anyways, I'm going to bet on it come the 30th, so we'll see I guess :)
Sep 28 14:09:47 <RST38h> No, I think it is a small garage-based operation, very specialized device that has to be made in small batches, limited customer base, no funds to match Nokia or HTC in advertising
Sep 28 14:10:08 <johnx> yeah, well no shit
Sep 28 14:10:24 <RST38h> So they either fail to release it, or they release a lemon (see their prototype), or they release it, 100 people buy it, and they go out of business
Sep 28 14:10:34 <RST38h> The possibilities for disaster boggle the mind
Sep 28 14:11:10 <RST38h> Somehow I have higher hopes for Nokia's devices =)
Sep 28 14:11:12 <johnx> I don't make long shot bets very often. I don't play the lottery. So I'll take one long shot and see if it pays off
Sep 28 14:11:38 <johnx> and if it doesn't you can laugh at me :)
Sep 28 14:11:42 <RST38h> It's not too long a shot - they are promising to release Pandora before Christmas, right?
Sep 28 14:11:48 <johnx> yup
Sep 28 14:11:52 <johnx> preorders on the 30th
Sep 28 14:12:09 <johnx> I've been watching the videos and browsing their svn as it comes together
Sep 28 14:12:49 <johnx> if the only *software* that ever comes out of it is only what I've already seen demoed then I'll still be happy
Sep 28 14:13:02 <RST38h> Then it is only 3 months for scenario #1 (no-release) and about 15 months for scenario #2 (no-sell)
Sep 28 14:13:25 <RST38h> pretty short bets
Sep 28 14:13:36 <johnx> they're doing it in made-to-order batches to avoid going bankrupt I believe
Sep 28 14:13:54 <johnx> so the first will be 3000 then they'll look at demand and do a second batch of some number
Sep 28 14:14:20 <RST38h> 3000 is pretty large batch
Sep 28 14:14:29 <RST38h> Actually, just large enough to get Chinese interested
Sep 28 14:14:40 <johnx> well, TI is involved too
Sep 28 14:15:00 <RST38h> TI isn't making or selling these
Sep 28 14:15:09 <johnx> right of course
Sep 28 14:15:13 <johnx> their mailing list for when preorders start had 10,000 people signed up a couple weeks ago
Sep 28 14:15:16 <RST38h> It is providing development support, "enabling" (C)Intel
Sep 28 14:15:35 <RST38h> 10k actual preorders? cool
Sep 28 14:15:41 <johnx> heh
Sep 28 14:15:50 <johnx> not preorders, people waiting for the preorder info
Sep 28 14:16:02 <RST38h> but if they are making 3k, I think the actual number of preorders is 2-3k
Sep 28 14:16:05 <RST38h> ah
Sep 28 14:16:57 <johnx> like, I said. we'll see preorder demand by how quickly 3000 preorders are sold out
Sep 28 14:17:59 <johnx> then it will be a more interesting discussion
Sep 28 14:18:42 <RST38h> yep
Sep 28 14:18:55 <RST38h> Also depends on how they build their developer community
Sep 28 14:19:12 <RST38h> *If* they reach the same success with developers as GamePark, they have got a chance
Sep 28 14:19:30 <johnx> many of the gamepark devs are coming over to the pandora
Sep 28 14:19:36 <johnx> tons of stuff has already been shown running
Sep 28 14:19:52 <RST38h> well it is a rather generic arm
Sep 28 14:19:57 <RST38h> not difficult to port
Sep 28 14:20:11 <johnx> of course
Sep 28 14:20:16 <MangoFusion> panora vs NIT. i need to see a stress test
Sep 28 14:20:24 <MangoFusion> is it released yet? ;)
Sep 28 14:20:40 <johnx> Stress test? speed or physical design?
Sep 28 14:20:45 * RST38h screams BLEZ! BGTZ! and flaming monkeys fly out of his ears
Sep 28 14:20:50 <MangoFusion> the works
Sep 28 14:22:10 <MangoFusion> from whether or not the PIM is good, to whether or not it can survive being driven over by a tank
Sep 28 14:22:30 <johnx> heh...don't count on any PIM software that didn't come from somewhere else
Sep 28 14:22:34 <johnx> this is a hacker's toy
Sep 28 14:22:53 <johnx> bring your own software :)
Sep 28 14:24:00 <johnx> emulators will be there. some type of launcher for the emulators will be there. a port of some media player will be there. other than that you get a kernel and some drivers. have fun!
Sep 28 14:26:40 <AStorm> Ehh.. need real task manager for n810
Sep 28 14:26:51 <johnx> ps?
Sep 28 14:26:51 <AStorm> (as in PIM with alarms)
Sep 28 14:27:05 <AStorm> not that kind :P
Sep 28 14:27:10 <johnx> ah
Sep 28 14:27:19 <RST38h> mo#$^&*#ing MIPS uses register #0 to permanently hold 0 constant
Sep 28 14:27:35 <AStorm> so what?
Sep 28 14:27:37 <AStorm> it does
Sep 28 14:27:40 <RST38h> That is what you get for letting academicians design an instruction set
Sep 28 14:28:07 <AStorm> well, many insns don't take consts
Sep 28 14:28:18 <RST38h> and many do =)
Sep 28 14:28:29 <AStorm> yes, so #0 is nice to have
Sep 28 14:28:49 <AStorm> gbe happy that it has 4x the registers of x86
Sep 28 14:28:53 <RST38h> I would prefer to have an arbitrary constant as an argument
Sep 28 14:29:01 <RST38h> I can't make use of these registers
Sep 28 14:29:21 <RST38h> Because register-indexed-by-register addressation is not there
Sep 28 14:29:37 <AStorm> load/store architecture
Sep 28 14:30:10 <RST38h> load/store architecture does not mean you have to maim your in-processor operations this much
Sep 28 14:30:11 <AStorm> you can have load with offset
Sep 28 14:30:17 <RST38h> ARM is also load/store architecture
Sep 28 14:30:24 <RST38h> with a *constant* offset :)
Sep 28 14:30:31 <AStorm> they went for orthogonal 32-bit insns
Sep 28 14:30:38 <AStorm> so what?
Sep 28 14:30:45 <RST38h> so freaking orthogonal...
Sep 28 14:30:50 <AStorm> can't use add?
Sep 28 14:30:54 <AStorm> :P
Sep 28 14:31:09 <AStorm> ARM is not a true risc :>
Sep 28 14:31:12 <RST38h> Extras add means extra 32bits to read from ram
Sep 28 14:31:22 <RST38h> AStorm: Thanks Cthulhu for that
Sep 28 14:31:36 <AStorm> still faster than 1 bit on everything
Sep 28 14:31:41 <RST38h> I have got a 2MB (!) MIPS binary
Sep 28 14:31:50 <RST38h> Where ARM goes by with 500kB
Sep 28 14:32:00 <AStorm> because it's cisc
Sep 28 14:32:03 <RST38h> AStorm: It is not faster.
Sep 28 14:32:28 <RST38h> AStorm: Because the RAM in embedded devices is so slow and the caches are virtually non-existant, this thing is SLOW
Sep 28 14:32:30 <AStorm> x86 is almost as small than standard arm (not thumb)
Sep 28 14:32:42 <AStorm> so what?
Sep 28 14:32:43 <RST38h> x86 is a different animal
Sep 28 14:33:00 <RST38h> x86 is definitely NOT RISC. ARM is more of a RISC
Sep 28 14:33:11 <AStorm> there's risc and cisc
Sep 28 14:33:19 <RST38h> AStorm: 400MHz MIPS runs VGBA at 10fps
Sep 28 14:33:20 <AStorm> here's no "more risc"
Sep 28 14:33:28 <AStorm> yup
Sep 28 14:33:32 <johnx> RST38h, well, MHz doesn't mean much
Sep 28 14:33:35 <AStorm> because :)
Sep 28 14:33:40 <RST38h> AStorm: Compare with 400MHz ARM in N8x0 and you will know why I am pissed.
Sep 28 14:33:43 <johnx> think armv5 vs armv6
Sep 28 14:33:51 <RST38h> johnx: Does not matter, really
Sep 28 14:34:00 <AStorm> mips has poor simd
Sep 28 14:34:02 <RST38h> johnx: What matters is clocks-per-read
Sep 28 14:34:07 <RST38h> mips has no simd
Sep 28 14:34:19 <AStorm> there have been extensions
Sep 28 14:34:20 <RST38h> but so does arm, as far as my stuff is concerned
Sep 28 14:34:40 <RST38h> AStorm: Apparently, *these* Chinese copied MIPS arch before extensions :)
Sep 28 14:35:05 <AStorm> they probably have their own propietary simd
Sep 28 14:35:20 <johnx> RST38h, what device is this?
Sep 28 14:35:25 <RST38h> Not likely, although I am still awaiting a decent datasheet from them
Sep 28 14:35:29 <RST38h> johnx: ICNexus
Sep 28 14:35:40 <AStorm> loongsun cpu?
Sep 28 14:35:56 <RST38h> How do I save/load from stack in MIPS?
Sep 28 14:36:00 <RST38h> Is there a pseudoop?
Sep 28 14:36:01 <johnx> ah, right. I was thinking about the linux MIPS-based laptop-thing that I saw
Sep 28 14:36:33 <RST38h> johnx: avoid like plague.
Sep 28 14:36:53 <AStorm> there is
Sep 28 14:37:10 <johnx> RST38h, I'll try and find one on at a street vendor, next time I'm on a certain street...
Sep 28 14:37:17 <johnx> ...just to play with
Sep 28 14:37:26 <RST38h> johnx: avoid like plague.
Sep 28 14:37:39 <RST38h> get an arm-based thingie.
Sep 28 14:37:59 <johnx> RST38h, I don't want to *buy* it. I want them to *think* I'm buying it so they let me play
Sep 28 14:38:24 <johnx> I'm hopeful, not dumb
Sep 28 14:38:41 <AStorm> RST38h, wrong, there's no real one
Sep 28 14:38:48 <AStorm> some assemblers have it
Sep 28 14:40:28 <AStorm> use addi and sw on $sp
Sep 28 14:40:51 <AStorm> some assemblers have a push pseudoop
Sep 28 14:45:11 <RST38h> johnx: Ah
Sep 28 14:45:20 <RST38h> AStorm: made a macro
Sep 28 14:45:50 <AStorm> better do it by hand if storing a lot of stuff at once
Sep 28 14:56:31 <RST38h> AStorm: not replacing ldmia with it
Sep 28 14:58:11 <AStorm> except you'd be incrementing only once
Sep 28 14:58:59 <AStorm> mips indeed needs more and faster memory to shine
Sep 28 14:59:12 <AStorm> it wasn't designed for embedded applications
Sep 28 15:01:17 <RST38h> the only use it is still finding though
Sep 28 15:01:44 <AStorm> except consoles?
Sep 28 15:02:31 <RST38h> consoles are embedded devices too
Sep 28 15:02:40 <AStorm> it's popular because it's cheap
Sep 28 15:02:43 <RST38h> and it is no longer in consoles...
Sep 28 15:02:55 <RST38h> about as cheap as arm
Sep 28 15:03:04 <AStorm> no, cheaper
Sep 28 15:03:07 <RST38h> mips is open architecture though
Sep 28 15:03:19 <RST38h> no need to pay for copying it
Sep 28 15:03:20 <AStorm> you can buy a licence with synthesis software
Sep 28 15:03:25 <AStorm> exactly
Sep 28 15:03:35 <AStorm> and it's cheap in transistors
Sep 28 15:03:48 <AStorm> (though arm is cheap too)
Sep 28 15:03:49 <RST38h> no shit, with braindamaged instruction set like that...
Sep 28 15:04:07 <RST38h> in any case, you mostly pay for cache in these chips
Sep 28 15:04:14 <AStorm> yes
Sep 28 15:04:23 <RST38h> the cpu circuitry itself is smaller than caches
Sep 28 15:05:59 <johnx> which is probably why higher performance devices are using ARMs these days...
Sep 28 15:06:24 <johnx> also, is MIPS continuing to evolve as much as ARM, recently?
Sep 28 15:06:28 <AStorm> because arm uses cache more efficiently
Sep 28 15:06:38 <AStorm> no, MIPS is mostly stalled
Sep 28 15:06:52 <AStorm> who votes for m64k?
Sep 28 15:06:54 <AStorm> :P
Sep 28 15:08:49 <AStorm> heck, I had to code for 8051 - now that is weird arch
Sep 28 15:12:05 <matan> 5 years ago I used dual core 2x1GHz 64bit MIPS (broadcom 1250), which ran fanless at 2x600MHz, so could not have used too much power. I guess arm still have some catch up to do.
Sep 28 15:13:13 <XTL> Mmm 8051
Sep 28 15:13:26 <johnx> matan, well the cortex a8 is a start :)
Sep 28 15:15:02 <RST38h> m68k you wanted to ask?
Sep 28 15:15:32 * RST38h throws up at the mention of 80x51
Sep 28 15:16:20 <AStorm> RST38h, yes, braino ;)
Sep 28 15:17:14 <AStorm> anyway, that arch has more cowbell
Sep 28 15:17:34 <ShadowJK> was that dual core or dual cpu? :)
Sep 28 15:18:45 <ville_> is anyone by any chance using "fremantle"?
Sep 28 15:19:05 <AStorm> no, it's not out yet
Sep 28 15:19:08 <RST38h> AStorm: 68k is said to be designed after PDP11 =)
Sep 28 15:19:14 <RST38h> so I guess it has to be good
Sep 28 15:19:16 <ville_> ok, I figured as much ;-)
Sep 28 15:19:27 <RST38h> ville: was it a trick question? =)
Sep 28 15:19:56 <ville_> er, actually not. I was just hoping that someone might be using the private stuff
Sep 28 15:20:18 <ville_> (but that's a bit out of scope for public irc anyway)
Sep 28 15:21:03 <NickPitlosh> hello
Sep 28 15:22:35 <AStorm> i suspect it'll be out with the next device, which is supposed to use omap3 and have hspa modem
Sep 28 15:22:59 <ShadowJK> I wonder if the hspa modem will have "legacy" gprs/edge support
Sep 28 15:23:18 <AStorm> why not? it's just one chip
Sep 28 15:23:25 <johnx> ShadowJK, are there any HSPA modems without that capability?
Sep 28 15:23:38 <AStorm> and I'll guess nokia will just reuse their latest one
Sep 28 15:24:01 <AStorm> I know no such crippled modems
Sep 28 15:25:52 <ShadowJK> cool
Sep 28 15:26:06 <ShadowJK> so with the sip client you'd effectively have a phone then ;)
Sep 28 15:26:08 <Jaredu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfuY_fglmD8&sdig=1
Sep 28 15:26:10 <Jaredu> new liqbase :D
Sep 28 15:26:18 <ShadowJK> although a bit lagged one if only gprs is available
Sep 28 15:26:45 <AStorm> uhm... it will be standard modem... with sim card
Sep 28 15:26:59 <AStorm> so, you should be able to call as usual
Sep 28 15:27:12 <AStorm> (assuming driver support)
Sep 28 15:27:27 <ShadowJK> i dont htink you can call with those external modems attached to laptops though?
Sep 28 15:27:43 <AStorm> you can with some :>
Sep 28 15:29:49 <AStorm> it's just gsm-compressed audio data tbh
Sep 28 15:30:42 <ShadowJK> just signed up with this cool VoIP service with a local telco. You can have as many VoIP clients attached as you want. Like, the old landline phone through ata adapter hooked up to broadband, my cellphone's VoIP client over WLAN or edge/3g, etc, and they all ring at the same time :)
Sep 28 15:31:32 <AStorm> well, you have call waiting service in gsm too :P
Sep 28 15:31:56 <AStorm> i can't see the point though
Sep 28 15:33:32 <AStorm> unless it's some true conference
Sep 28 15:33:50 <AStorm> then it's cool (but expensive :P)
Sep 28 15:33:53 <Jaredu> is it sad that my tablet can do google maps better than mah pc?
Sep 28 15:33:57 <Jaredu> silly vista..
Sep 28 15:34:13 <AStorm> usee Firefox :>
Sep 28 15:34:14 <Jaredu> even with quad core 8gb ram and 9800gtx a nokia tablet > in os software xD
Sep 28 15:34:16 <Jaredu> i do
Sep 28 15:34:20 <Jaredu> <3 firefox
Sep 28 15:34:28 <Jaredu> im going through a huge headache of getting fennec on the n810
Sep 28 15:34:34 <Jaredu>  ///wants tab support
Sep 28 15:34:40 <Jaredu> but i get a segmentation fault
Sep 28 15:34:41 <Jaredu> so i cant install
Sep 28 15:34:51 <qwerty12> segfault? where?
Sep 28 15:34:56 <Jaredu> during install
Sep 28 15:35:02 <Jaredu> leaves xulrunner unconfigured
Sep 28 15:35:06 <Jaredu> and bricks my installs
Sep 28 15:35:13 <qwerty12> Hmm, can you pastebin a lot?
Sep 28 15:35:15 <qwerty12> *log
Sep 28 15:35:15 <Jaredu> then fennec looks weird
Sep 28 15:35:24 <Jaredu> i did on pastebin.mozilla.org
Sep 28 15:35:28 <Jaredu> but its been like a day
Sep 28 15:35:31 <Jaredu> i dunno if it's still there
Sep 28 15:35:33 <Jaredu> it probably is
Sep 28 15:35:49 <Jaredu> can i search for posts there?
Sep 28 15:35:50 <Jaredu> o.O
Sep 28 15:36:12 * qwerty12 checks maemo irc logs
Sep 28 15:36:21 <Jaredu> i was on mozilla irc
Sep 28 15:36:28 <Jaredu> irc.mozilla.org
Sep 28 15:36:35 <Jaredu> talked with blassey and such
Sep 28 15:36:49 <Jaredu> it appears the error only happens on some people and they dont know what causes it
Sep 28 15:37:04 <Jaredu> ive tried installing from .debs, ive tried with wget, and ive tried with both app manager and apt-get
Sep 28 15:37:08 <Jaredu> it always gives seg fault
Sep 28 15:37:15 <Jaredu> theres a bug report on it
Sep 28 15:37:27 <qwerty12> Does the error always occur with xulrunner? If so, mind pointing me to the location of the deb?
Sep 28 15:37:44 <Jaredu> one moment
Sep 28 15:37:46 <Jaredu> ill get a link
Sep 28 15:38:20 <Jaredu> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Fennec/Releases
Sep 28 15:38:22 <Jaredu> its in there
Sep 28 15:38:29 <Jaredu> ftpftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mobile/
Sep 28 15:38:31 <Jaredu> ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mobile/
Sep 28 15:38:39 <qwerty12> k, thanks
Sep 28 15:38:57 <Jaredu> np
Sep 28 15:39:17 <johnx> oh man. the latest liqbase looks really hot
Sep 28 15:39:25 <Jaredu> i know dude!
Sep 28 15:39:28 <Jaredu> it looks awesome :D
Sep 28 15:39:34 <Jaredu> i got a youtube email from subscription heh
Sep 28 15:40:01 <johnx> I wonder about webkit with a liqbase backend...
Sep 28 15:40:07 <Jaredu> o.O
Sep 28 15:40:14 <Jaredu>  //just had an idea
Sep 28 15:40:22 <Jaredu> *runs to get his tablet
Sep 28 15:40:55 <qwerty12> Jaredu, What happens if you run "/usr/local/xulrunner/xulrunner --register-global" as root?
Sep 28 15:42:08 <qwerty12> ~curse realtek download area
Sep 28 15:42:08 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, realtek download area !
Sep 28 15:43:21 <Jaredu> it starts fennec
Sep 28 15:43:24 <Jaredu> the package is broken
Sep 28 15:43:37 <Jaredu> lemme try though
Sep 28 15:43:43 <Jaredu> want a screenshot of what my fennec looks like?
Sep 28 15:43:48 <Jaredu> even blassey thought it was screwed :D
Sep 28 15:43:50 <Jaredu> one sec
Sep 28 15:47:17 <Jaredu> http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d163/xx_ty_xx/fennec.png
Sep 28 15:47:22 <Jaredu> from default install my fennec looks like that
Sep 28 15:47:29 <johnx> yes. that's broken
Sep 28 15:47:38 <qwerty12> Ouch, can it even be used to browse a site? :P
Sep 28 15:47:42 <Jaredu> not at all
Sep 28 15:47:59 <Jaredu> the refresh and plus and option buttons are clickable but they do nothign
Sep 28 15:48:02 <Jaredu> nothing
Sep 28 15:48:06 <Jaredu> i got an idea though
Sep 28 15:48:10 <Jaredu> >:]
Sep 28 15:48:38 <Jaredu> gah
Sep 28 15:48:43 <Jaredu> i hate my menus not being organized anymore
Sep 28 15:48:52 <Jaredu> i had to flash my tablet to get xulrunner off the first time
Sep 28 15:49:01 <Jaredu> i now have some handy code to get rid of it for me :D
Sep 28 15:49:08 <Jaredu> but i lost all my menus and stuff
Sep 28 15:49:10 <Jaredu> :'(
Sep 28 15:49:32 <Jaredu> i found the organize button and made custom menus :D
Sep 28 15:52:24 <Stskeeps> lcuk: insanely cool new liqbase indeed - you're really exploring some new interaction methods
Sep 28 15:52:53 <Jaredu> it looks awesome
Sep 28 15:52:54 <Jaredu> :D
Sep 28 15:53:24 <qwerty12> Who wants to come with me up North to steal lcuk's computer and his binary for latest liqbase?
Sep 28 15:55:10 <Stskeeps> can i bring beer?
Sep 28 15:55:10 <Stskeeps> :P
Sep 28 15:55:39 <qwerty12> Sure, we must make the target drunk as to make him unaware to what is going on :P
Sep 28 15:56:48 <Jaredu> i say it'd save on gas to just ssh into his comp :D
Sep 28 16:02:50 <Jaredu> anyone know how to install a downloaded .deb package with wget -i ?
Sep 28 16:02:59 <Jaredu> like /user/local/~ or something
Sep 28 16:03:03 <Jaredu> i dont know the default dir
Sep 28 16:06:24 <Stskeeps> dpkg -i? :P
Sep 28 16:06:31 <Jaredu> ah
Sep 28 16:06:31 <Jaredu> yes
Sep 28 16:06:32 <Jaredu> dpkg
Sep 28 16:06:42 <Jaredu> dpkg -i something
Sep 28 16:06:43 <Jaredu> for install
Sep 28 16:07:39 <Jaredu> nvm
Sep 28 16:07:40 <Jaredu> got it :D
Sep 28 16:22:49 <Jaffa> Evening, all
Sep 28 16:23:16 <woglinde> hi jaffa
Sep 28 16:34:08 <RST38h> moo.
Sep 28 16:37:09 <Silicium> hi there
Sep 28 16:37:28 <Silicium> where i can find the flash script for n800?
Sep 28 16:39:40 <woglinde> ????
Sep 28 16:39:43 <woglinde> script?
Sep 28 16:39:52 <Silicium> yea
Sep 28 16:39:56 <Silicium> flash.sh
Sep 28 16:40:03 <woglinde> you dont need a script for flasher
Sep 28 16:40:07 <Silicium> hmm
Sep 28 16:40:13 <Silicium> or how is named?
Sep 28 16:40:18 <woglinde> ~flashing
Sep 28 16:40:18 <infobot> i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Sep 28 16:40:24 <Silicium> thanks
Sep 28 16:41:20 <script> who's calling *look up*?
Sep 28 16:42:40 <woglinde> look up?
Sep 28 16:42:59 <woglinde> is n't that a movie with sylvester stallone?
Sep 28 17:28:44 <Jaredu> 17Jareduhmm12:17Jaredui downloaded way too many packages for xulrunner12:17Jaredui used all my memory12:17Jareduany way to do rm /usr/local/ without bricking the system or is that area just for downloads
Sep 28 17:29:01 <Jaredu> sorry for the copypaste, but i didnt feel like retyping it all lol
Sep 28 17:29:35 <lcuk> Stskeeps, there is a beta signup on itT if you wanna get along it will be cool
Sep 28 17:30:13 <lcuk> i should have everything needed in place in a couple of days :) i spent yesterday cleaning up the codebase and rebuilding the essentials for a package (as well as some other things)
Sep 28 17:31:30 <lcuk> Jaredu, i just saw your comment :)
Sep 28 17:31:45 <Stskeeps> you can include me in there i guess, - the Re: liqbase playtest available call for beta or?
Sep 28 17:31:51 <lcuk> yer
Sep 28 17:32:01 <lcuk> call for assistance
Sep 28 17:32:04 <Stskeeps> ah
Sep 28 17:32:47 <lcuk> i hoped for more codey types, but that was fine as it stands, beta will be good for binaries
Sep 28 17:32:55 <lcuk> though most things pass my extensive tests
Sep 28 17:33:08 <lcuk> theres only some fringes and seeing how it copes on users machines to do :)
Sep 28 17:33:14 <melmoth> Hola
Sep 28 17:33:14 <Stskeeps> i can review C atleast.. you should hire a bunch of people with aspergers, a bit of autism is good for testing ;
Sep 28 17:33:17 <Stskeeps> ;)
Sep 28 17:33:40 <lcuk> yer, i sometimes think thats how i copy
Sep 28 17:33:41 <lcuk> e
Sep 28 17:33:54 <Stskeeps> same here.. if it's managable tedious work i can do it
Sep 28 17:34:00 <melmoth> lcuk: do you plan to make liqbase runnable on scratchbox ?
Sep 28 17:34:10 <lcuk> melmoth, why scratchbox?
Sep 28 17:34:13 <melmoth> all the pressure and idontknowwhatyuvisabout thingy fails
Sep 28 17:34:14 <RST38h> boo, lcuk
Sep 28 17:34:23 <melmoth> because i only have 1 tablet.
Sep 28 17:34:28 <melmoth> i call it "production"
Sep 28 17:34:31 <Stskeeps> lcuk: just want me to post on that thread to indicate i'm interested or just follow the SVN checkout stuff and see what holes i can find? :P
Sep 28 17:35:02 <lcuk> svn is ancient now, just post and subscribe to the thread ill post and mail as many as i can find once its released
Sep 28 17:35:18 <melmoth> "svn is ancient" ts ts ts
Sep 28 17:35:18 <Stskeeps> *nod*
Sep 28 17:35:25 * lcuk has nightlies
Sep 28 17:35:36 * melmoth push lcuk to use garage svn as his working repository.
Sep 28 17:36:41 <lcuk> last time i did that i had "issues" sorting everything out - i spent almost a month of lost dev time just because of a single update :)
Sep 28 17:37:09 <melmoth> hmm.
Sep 28 17:37:26 <melmoth> last time i did that, i just svn diff the previous version, and recommited. Ugly, but it work
Sep 28 17:37:28 <Stskeeps> melmoth: i decided not to use garage svn for my stuff after the whole ErrorDocument debacle and wrong scm paths and such..
Sep 28 17:38:09 <melmoth> there is a wrong link to the nightly tarball on the garage page for each projetc, but this is the only issue i am aware of.
Sep 28 17:38:21 <lcuk> this codebase is quite extensive and contains modules to do an awful lot of stuff and viable options for a number of things, and i got sidetracked discussing those and making arrangements and stuff
Sep 28 17:38:23 <melmoth> is there another problem with garage svn ?
Sep 28 17:38:23 <Stskeeps> yes, this was back in june, but it kinda put me off garage svn :P
Sep 28 17:38:38 <Stskeeps> then again i'm a grumpy open source developer who was way too spoiled with people throwing hosting at me like candies at schoolchildren
Sep 28 17:39:36 <Stskeeps> lcuk: posted and just prod anytime if you want something reviewed
Sep 28 17:39:50 <lcuk> excellent sts :)
Sep 28 17:40:19 <lcuk> well things have fallen into place quite nicely and just a few bits of garnish to help the beta testers
Sep 28 17:40:30 * lcuk wants beta testers to enjoy filing bugs
Sep 28 17:41:06 <melmoth> lcuk: please please use the garage stuff, public svn and bugzillalike thing available there.
Sep 28 17:41:27 <RST38h> lcuk, you still need a killer app for the liqbase =)
Sep 28 17:41:32 <lcuk> i have already changed my mind about the closed beta and stuff, yes it will be on garage as far as i know
Sep 28 17:41:41 <Stskeeps> RST38h: replace "Home"? :P
Sep 28 17:41:47 <melmoth> \o/
Sep 28 17:41:51 <lcuk> RST38h, :)
Sep 28 17:42:18 <lcuk> thank god i havent got an iphone, i stopped finger painting a long time ago
Sep 28 17:42:39 <Stskeeps> i would actually love something like liqbase for Home/desktop on maemo
Sep 28 17:42:54 <Stskeeps> abusing zooming and such maybe oto
Sep 28 17:42:56 <lcuk> Stskeeps, :) technically builds on x86 linux :)
Sep 28 17:43:09 <RST38h> Sts: or replace canola engines
Sep 28 17:43:36 <lcuk> as soon as i get dev time i will be rectifying the remaining bugs and then it can be kept in sync
Sep 28 17:44:08 <RST38h> maybe replace the whole bunch of testing stuff you have there with something unified?
Sep 28 17:44:12 <lcuk> i was speaking to one of the edje or other rendering guys recently
Sep 28 17:44:24 <Stskeeps> lcuk: if it was me i'd take stuff like this to researchers within pervasive computing.. could be interesting to see a mix
Sep 28 17:44:28 <RST38h> some kind of finger ui breakthrough like spreadsheets were once?
Sep 28 17:44:48 <Stskeeps> lcuk: i'll demo liqbase to some of the researchers i work with and see if they maybe have some input
Sep 28 17:45:00 <lcuk> yes RST38h :) there is a plan to move liqbase from being my playground to bein a proper app, but somehow having all the different aspects to just play with adds to its appeal
Sep 28 17:45:10 <melmoth> lcuk: do you plan to make it workable for "regular" non touch screen (machine without canvas XSP raw mouse thnigy)?
Sep 28 17:45:18 <lcuk> even if you flick in and out of a module for 10 seconds - thats 10 more seconds of face time which makes you smile :)
Sep 28 17:45:20 <Stskeeps> they're insane for mobile devices and the population of n8x0 tablets on campus is high :P
Sep 28 17:45:23 * melmoth is still thinking about scratchbox
Sep 28 17:45:58 <lcuk> melmoth, the new build includes a USE_MAEMO switch which if disabled runs on normal mouse driver with no touch sensitivity
Sep 28 17:46:13 <melmoth> excellent.
Sep 28 17:46:17 <lcuk> but tbh having 9 buttons visible from orbit on a 24 inch monitor doesnt work too well
Sep 28 17:46:22 <RST38h> lcuk: My suspicion is, you can *retain* having all the different aspects while adding unified ui
Sep 28 17:46:26 <lcuk> the paradigm is wrong
Sep 28 17:46:38 <lcuk> its the same reason why desktop apps dont work too well on hildon
Sep 28 17:46:56 <RST38h> lcuk: you can think of the thumbnail view as a "universe" of documents
Sep 28 17:47:05 <RST38h> which you navigate with your finger
Sep 28 17:47:09 <lcuk> the graffiti wall is one thing, i meant the menuing
Sep 28 17:47:18 <melmoth> but, one could play on scratchibox with that, and not take the risk to....have to remove the battery of his tablet because bad things may happen.
Sep 28 17:47:24 <lcuk> graffiti is configurable to various scales
Sep 28 17:47:29 <RST38h> every document can have its own type - text, drawing, physics sim, even web browser
Sep 28 17:47:34 <lcuk> i only removed the adjustable size recently with new ui backend
Sep 28 17:47:55 <RST38h> So basically, in addition to that graffiti navigator, you want to have a menu NEW DOCUMENT by type
Sep 28 17:48:01 <lcuk> theres certainly lots of options and im very confident i can add to the experience for users :)
Sep 28 17:48:04 <RST38h> And this will be it
Sep 28 17:48:32 * lcuk is making a bugtracker as we speak
Sep 28 17:49:28 * lcuk just increased his word count by a few hundred
Sep 28 17:49:29 <Jaredu> sweet :D
Sep 28 17:51:39 <lcuk> my 6 year old was using it the other day, made me so proud to watch him browsing around and drawin stuff and playin :)
Sep 28 17:52:02 <Jaredu> heh
Sep 28 17:52:12 <Jaredu> lcuk: how do you deal with scratches on the tablet?
Sep 28 17:52:26 <Stskeeps> assuming people have a good screen protector? :P
Sep 28 17:52:38 <lcuk> heh - well ive worn out a tablet, its not sensitive to touch with finger any more - most noticable in a single area
Sep 28 17:52:57 <Jaredu> i just ordered invisibleshield for my tablet (full armor+screen)
Sep 28 17:53:03 <Jaredu> im parinoid of scratches
Sep 28 17:53:19 <lcuk> if you watch the videos there is a midle left area that just doesnt know about my finger any more
Sep 28 17:53:26 <Jaredu> i love the touch... but it worries me
Sep 28 17:53:26 <Jaredu> lol
Sep 28 17:53:26 <Jaredu> ah
Sep 28 17:53:32 <lcuk> ive given up, im the first i know who has worn it out :)
Sep 28 17:53:38 <Jaredu> heh
Sep 28 17:53:45 <Jaredu> send it back to nokia for repair?
Sep 28 17:53:47 <lcuk> but, there was a woman on the metro in berlin
Sep 28 17:53:56 <lcuk> she sat down and pulled out an old dell
Sep 28 17:54:29 <lcuk> she started playin something, but from the angle i couldnt see properly
Sep 28 17:54:40 <lcuk> but then i noticed her screen had scratches in very specific places
Sep 28 17:54:48 <Jaredu> yeah
Sep 28 17:54:49 <Jaredu> lol
Sep 28 17:54:50 <lcuk> and realised she must play solitaire on the train every day
Sep 28 17:54:53 <Jaredu> heh
Sep 28 17:55:05 <Jaredu> i cant stand that
Sep 28 17:55:08 <Jaredu> even a tiny scratch
Sep 28 17:55:12 <Jaredu> makes the device lose interest
Sep 28 17:55:14 <Jaredu> i hate it
Sep 28 17:55:17 <Jaredu> especially for movies
Sep 28 17:55:22 <Jaredu> drives me ballistic
Sep 28 17:55:23 <Jaredu> so
Sep 28 17:55:27 <Jaredu> invisible armor :D
Sep 28 17:55:34 <Jaredu> i like using it for sketc
Sep 28 17:55:36 <Jaredu> sketch
Sep 28 17:55:39 <Jaredu> but crosshatching
Sep 28 17:55:40 <lcuk> yer, screen protectors or a better harder screen would be good
Sep 28 17:55:46 <Jaredu> i notice it'll destroy it fast
Sep 28 17:55:54 <lcuk> its grit thats the killer
Sep 28 17:56:07 <lcuk> i am constantly feeling for the slightest resistence
Sep 28 17:56:13 <Jaredu> i kind of wish it had a screen like the iphone, supposedly it can go in with change and crap and not get scratches
Sep 28 17:56:19 <lcuk> running stylus through a fingerprint is a bad one
Sep 28 17:56:49 <Jaredu> yeah
Sep 28 17:56:56 <lcuk> a sapphire screen would be best :)
Sep 28 17:56:57 <Jaredu> and the tiny grains of dirt that get on the screen
Sep 28 17:57:02 <Jaredu> sapphire eh?
Sep 28 17:57:27 <lcuk> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AAdku9YhSCI
Sep 28 17:57:50 <lcuk> its technically the screens used at shopping centres for scanning over at the till
Sep 28 17:57:56 <lcuk> they have to be mega durable
Sep 28 17:58:02 <Jaredu> hmm
Sep 28 17:58:14 <lcuk> http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/25/2125218
Sep 28 17:58:35 <lcuk> thats the slash discussion that tells you a bit more about it
Sep 28 17:58:41 <Jaredu> ....holy shit
Sep 28 17:58:42 <Jaredu> i want it
Sep 28 17:59:17 <lcuk> keys are childsplay :)
Sep 28 17:59:23 <lcuk> is that a crossbow in your pocket?
Sep 28 17:59:28 <Jaredu> lol
Sep 28 17:59:31 <Jaredu> good god
Sep 28 17:59:35 <Jaredu> I WANT
Sep 28 17:59:42 <Jaredu> is there any way to mod the n810 screen?
Sep 28 17:59:45 <Jaredu> seriously
Sep 28 17:59:48 <Jaredu> that is flipping amazing
Sep 28 18:00:28 <lcuk> crystalised sapphire  coating is pretty much amazing stuff, no im not sure its possible - certianly not without losing the touch - but it would be good
Sep 28 18:00:57 <Jaredu> well
Sep 28 18:01:01 <Jaredu> those are touch monitors
Sep 28 18:01:08 <Jaredu> probably a diff type of touchscreen though
Sep 28 18:01:35 <lcuk> im not sure i would like to have to use a crossbow just to click "buy now" on an ebay auiction
Sep 28 18:03:03 <lcuk> right, offski for a bit, nice chatting with you lot as usual
Sep 28 18:03:20 <Jaredu> lmao
Sep 28 18:03:21 <Jaredu> nice
Sep 28 18:03:22 <Jaredu> well
Sep 28 18:03:25 <Jaredu> caio dude
Sep 28 18:16:58 <aladds> anyone here ever repaired an over-voltage damaged 770?
Sep 28 18:17:32 <Stskeeps> 'lo aladds, and sorry to hear your tablet died in the name of progress :P
Sep 28 18:17:38 <aladds> mm :(
Sep 28 18:18:01 <Stskeeps> atleast it seems like it has sparked some more interest :)
Sep 28 18:18:03 <aladds> 9v to the UB port...
Sep 28 18:18:07 <aladds> this is true :0
Sep 28 18:18:10 <aladds> *:)
Sep 28 18:18:16 <Stskeeps> sure it's not just the battery that burnt out?
Sep 28 18:18:26 <aladds> battery's showing a good voltage
Sep 28 18:18:46 <aladds> but if it is burnt out, can i run it without?
Sep 28 18:19:05 <aladds> i imagine i need to short a couple of pins on the battery connector?
Sep 28 18:32:24 <JasonWoof> how do I get the contents of the selection?
Sep 28 18:32:30 <JasonWoof> eg something like xclip
Sep 28 18:32:43 <JasonWoof> I want something that will spit it to stdout
Sep 28 18:33:54 <johnx> I think I built an xclip .deb a while ago
Sep 28 18:33:59 <johnx> let's see if I can track it down
Sep 28 18:34:11 <JasonWoof> ahh, found something on gronmayer
Sep 28 18:34:18 <JasonWoof> xclip that is
Sep 28 18:34:28 <JasonWoof> thought I'd ask if there was already something installed that would do it
Sep 28 18:34:46 <johnx> I don't think
Sep 28 18:34:47 <johnx> so
Sep 28 18:34:55 <johnx> or at least I didn't know when I compiled xclip...
Sep 28 18:35:23 <JasonWoof> heh heh
Sep 28 18:35:53 <_julian_> hi
Sep 28 18:36:05 <_julian_> any ideas where to get this keyboard app for n800? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrWpUBTDDr0
Sep 28 18:36:47 <johnx> _julian_, from my understanding it's just a demo
Sep 28 18:40:44 <johnx> JasonWoof, if that doesn't work for you this one should: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=130897&postcount=16
Sep 28 18:46:07 <JasonWoof> ahh, got it. took me a little while to find libxmu6
Sep 28 18:46:17 <JasonWoof> somehow I had maemo-extra but not maemo
Sep 28 18:46:57 <johnx> I should reinstall my text2speech hack again... :)
Sep 28 18:47:11 <aladds> anyone know if/where i can get iT spare parts? (specifically the 770 motherboard :P)
Sep 28 18:47:40 <johnx> aladds, you think that the whole thing is cooked?
Sep 28 18:47:52 <aladds> nah, just a custom chip
Sep 28 18:47:57 <aladds> which i obviously can't replace
Sep 28 18:48:17 * lcuk used to replace smt chips
Sep 28 18:48:18 <aladds> (because it's custom, thus not readily available)
Sep 28 18:48:46 <aladds> oh i could probably get access to smt desoldering/soldering kit
Sep 28 18:48:57 <aladds> but getting the parts will probably be impossible
Sep 28 18:49:12 <johnx> aladds, post an ad on internettablettalk.com/forums and ask for a 770 with WSOD
Sep 28 18:49:33 <johnx> you might get one rather cheap
Sep 28 18:49:35 <_julian_> trying to install canola2 I get an error that python2.5-terra >= 0.1.8-maemo1 is needed, but ony 0.1.7 is available
Sep 28 18:49:39 <_julian_> any ideas how to fix that?
Sep 28 18:49:55 <johnx> _julian_, caonola2 beta10 is half uploaded to the repository
Sep 28 18:50:04 <johnx> wait a day or two
Sep 28 18:50:06 <_julian_> johnx: ah ok, so just wait until tomorrow?
Sep 28 18:50:10 <_julian_> ok, cool (c:
Sep 28 18:50:28 <johnx> _julian_, also, do you have extras-devel enabled? I didn't think it was in extras yet...
Sep 28 18:51:02 <JasonWoof> yay :) now I have a one-liner that speaks the selection to me
Sep 28 18:51:03 <aladds> johnx: is the problem with those just th LCD?
Sep 28 18:52:14 <johnx> aladds, hmmm...I want to say it's a bad inverter...but I might be making that up
Sep 28 18:52:30 <aladds> hmm
Sep 28 18:52:44 <aladds> but surely if the screen's white the inveters powering the backlight/
Sep 28 18:52:46 <aladds> ?
Sep 28 18:53:03 <aladds> or is it using too much power?
Sep 28 18:53:06 <johnx> like I said, I might have made that up
Sep 28 18:53:13 <_julian_> johnx: yep
Sep 28 18:53:17 <aladds> well you could be right
Sep 28 18:53:29 <aladds> if the inverter uses too much power the screen might not power up
Sep 28 18:53:30 <_julian_> for qedje and stuff...
Sep 28 18:53:44 <johnx> _julian_, try disabling it, installing canola2, then turning it back on :)
Sep 28 18:53:53 <johnx> aladds, nah...it's something else
Sep 28 18:54:01 <aladds> ah ok
Sep 28 18:54:05 * johnx is tired and mixing up his terminology
Sep 28 18:54:23 <johnx> I'll find the thread where the people who know what they're talking about mention the real cause
Sep 28 18:54:36 <JasonWoof> now how do I map that useless button on the front of my n810 to run my shell script?
Sep 28 18:54:37 <_julian_> johnx: I can wait for 1-2 days if I'll get a bleeding version then... just interested in how canola looks now (c:
Sep 28 18:54:43 <JasonWoof> (the one with the circular arrow on it)
Sep 28 18:54:53 <_julian_> canola2 is using edje/evas, right?
Sep 28 18:55:12 <johnx> JasonWoof, your escape key aka the browser "back" button?
Sep 28 18:55:55 <JasonWoof> johnx: I don't know what it's supposed to do
Sep 28 18:56:01 <ds3> is there a command line way of generating a list of installed packages in chinook?
Sep 28 18:56:16 <ds3> dpkg -somemagicincantation prehaps?
Sep 28 18:56:19 <JasonWoof> johnx: there's two buttons on the frunt of the device when it's closed. the bottom one seems pretty useless
Sep 28 18:56:42 <JasonWoof> ds3: dpkg -l
Sep 28 18:56:43 <JasonWoof> I think
Sep 28 18:57:00 <johnx> JasonWoof, if it's a curved arrow pointing left that key sends "esc" and is used in the browser and other apps for "back"
Sep 28 18:57:28 <JasonWoof> backspace works fine for  browser-back
Sep 28 18:58:13 <johnx> JasonWoof, if you have the keyboard out. anyways, you can map it to something like F13 with xmodmap and then have something listen for it and launch a script
Sep 28 18:59:13 <JasonWoof> johnx: ok, I think I know how to do most of that, except the "have something listen"
Sep 28 18:59:30 <JasonWoof> are there settings in the wm?
Sep 28 18:59:31 <johnx> JasonWoof, something like keylaunch
Sep 28 18:59:40 <JasonWoof> ahh hah!
Sep 28 19:01:29 <Stskeeps> johnx: btw, mount --bind /sys /mnt/initfs/sys, chroot /mnt/initfs prolly gives us wlan-cal settings in any compiled driver.. i'll include that fix sometime
Sep 28 19:01:37 <Stskeeps> so deblet is more FCC-friendly
Sep 28 19:01:37 <Stskeeps> :P
Sep 28 19:01:44 <JasonWoof> I'll have to start fiddling with xmodmap more. the default keybindings suck
Sep 28 19:02:39 <JasonWoof> there's five slots where they didn't bother putting a symbol, and some really useful symbols they left off, mainly | and esc
Sep 28 19:02:50 <JasonWoof> well, guess esc is on the front of the case
Sep 28 19:02:53 <JasonWoof> and tab
Sep 28 19:03:07 <JasonWoof> ^i is a pain to type
Sep 28 19:03:40 <johnx> aladds, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15599&highlight=WSOD
Sep 28 19:03:50 <ds3> JasonWoof: thanks
Sep 28 19:04:32 <johnx> aladds, that thread has the info on the cause of the WSOD. but it seems to be isolated to a daughterboard as the 770 still boots after getting a WSOD
Sep 28 19:11:32 <Jaredu> ok
Sep 28 19:11:33 <Jaredu> so
Sep 28 19:11:37 <Jaredu> i just flashed my tablet
Sep 28 19:11:48 <Jaredu> and it says on my internal mem that i have 130mb used
Sep 28 19:11:53 <Jaredu> and 118 available
Sep 28 19:12:03 <johnx> sounds about right
Sep 28 19:12:06 <Jaredu> i just flashed it and it already used all of the memory
Sep 28 19:12:13 <Jaredu> i expanded it via the internal card
Sep 28 19:12:18 <Jaredu> so....
Sep 28 19:12:19 <Jaredu> wtf
Sep 28 19:12:28 <johnx> "expanded it via the internal card"
Sep 28 19:12:32 <Jaredu> yes
Sep 28 19:12:33 <johnx> what does that mean?
Sep 28 19:12:36 <Jaredu> for applications
Sep 28 19:12:39 <Jaredu> i setup virtual swap
Sep 28 19:12:43 <johnx> you enabled virtual memory or swap?
Sep 28 19:12:46 <Jaredu> yes
Sep 28 19:12:53 <johnx> yeah, that's for expanding RAM
Sep 28 19:13:00 <Jaredu> i know
Sep 28 19:13:03 <Jaredu> but under data
Sep 28 19:13:21 <Jaredu> it says 4.31 mb images 4.22mb audio clips 15.0mb documents and 13.1mb installed apps
Sep 28 19:13:24 <Jaredu> thats not 130mb
Sep 28 19:13:25 <johnx> yes
Sep 28 19:13:31 <johnx> that's not talking about RAM
Sep 28 19:13:38 <johnx> that's talking about the onboard flash storage
Sep 28 19:13:41 <Jaredu> yes
Sep 28 19:13:43 <Jaredu> i know
Sep 28 19:13:57 <johnx> the expanding has nothing to do with that
Sep 28 19:14:00 <Jaredu> hmm
Sep 28 19:14:04 <Jaredu> why is half the memory gone
Sep 28 19:14:07 <Jaredu> if i have used none of it
Sep 28 19:14:08 <johnx> the OS
Sep 28 19:14:11 <Jaredu> before i flashed it
Sep 28 19:14:20 <Jaredu> i had downloaded files via wget
Sep 28 19:14:30 <Jaredu> i believe they ended up in /usr/local
Sep 28 19:14:37 <Jaredu> how would i get rid of them?
Sep 28 19:14:42 <Jaredu> or find out where it put them
Sep 28 19:14:43 <johnx> they're gone
Sep 28 19:14:45 <johnx> if you flashed
Sep 28 19:15:01 <Jaredu> so 117mb is what i got to work with for apps
Sep 28 19:15:06 <johnx> yup
Sep 28 19:15:10 <Jaredu> crap :(
Sep 28 19:15:29 <johnx> well, start by deleting the included pictures, and video and PDF user manual
Sep 28 19:15:32 <johnx> or moving them to an SD card
Sep 28 19:15:37 <Jaredu> right
Sep 28 19:16:06 <johnx> if you use internal storage only for apps, it shouldn't be a problem
Sep 28 19:16:32 <Jaredu> >.<
Sep 28 19:16:36 <Jaredu> i like lots of apps ;)
Sep 28 19:16:58 <johnx> then you might want to boot from SD
Sep 28 19:17:15 <Jaredu> heh
Sep 28 19:17:21 <Jaredu> that wears out the card? :P
Sep 28 19:17:27 <johnx> yup
Sep 28 19:17:35 <johnx> there's no such thing as a free lunch
Sep 28 19:17:35 <Jaredu> i got a 4gb sd card :)
Sep 28 19:17:39 <Jaredu> it'd do nicely
Sep 28 19:18:07 <Jaredu> of course there is :)
Sep 28 19:18:24 <johnx> well you don't get one :)
Sep 28 19:18:32 <Jaredu> heh
Sep 28 19:18:35 <Jaredu> hmm
Sep 28 19:18:35 <Jaredu> i wonder
Sep 28 19:18:43 <Jaredu> could i boot from usb hdd?
Sep 28 19:19:01 <Jaredu> i know it has support for usb hdd
Sep 28 19:19:02 <johnx> it's less than straighforward, but yes
Sep 28 19:19:09 <Jaredu> hmm
Sep 28 19:19:11 <Jaredu> that'd be interesting
Sep 28 19:19:22 <Jaredu> could get a 64gb ssd
Sep 28 19:19:25 <Jaredu> heh ;)
Sep 28 19:20:05 <johnx> you have to weigh how much your sd card will cost to replace (in a year or two), multiply by it's chance of failing (low), and then figure out if having lots of convenient storage is worth it
Sep 28 19:20:26 <Jaredu> hmm
Sep 28 19:20:29 <Jaredu> chance of failing?
Sep 28 19:20:46 <Jaredu> i got my 4gb for like 12$
Sep 28 19:20:51 <Jaredu> minisd
Sep 28 19:21:07 <Jaredu> preeeety much desposable
Sep 28 19:21:15 <Jaredu> though; data is important
Sep 28 19:21:19 <johnx> yeah, there's not a 100% chance you'll kill it by booting off of it, so you might as well get your money's worth
Sep 28 19:21:33 <johnx> lol, so boot from sd and save your data to the internal flash :)
Sep 28 19:21:44 <Jaredu> lol the flash will fail eventually
Sep 28 19:22:06 <Jaredu> kinda worries meh :P
Sep 28 19:22:11 <gomiam> erm... what are the usual prices you find for a 8GB SD card?
Sep 28 19:22:14 <derf> There was a guy who filled up his SD card except for one block, and then wrote to it until it failed.
Sep 28 19:22:18 <johnx> by the time internal flash failure is your problem you'll be thinking about upgrading the memory diamond in your implanted computer
Sep 28 19:22:26 <derf> Took 90,000 writes, and he could still read all his data afterwards.
Sep 28 19:22:53 <johnx> yeah, the most likely cause of failure is probably physical damager during insertion or storage
Sep 28 19:23:05 <Jaredu> hmm
Sep 28 19:23:06 <Jaredu> well
Sep 28 19:23:13 <Jaredu> i do quite a few writes a day
Sep 28 19:23:19 <Jaredu> dunno about single blocks
Sep 28 19:23:26 <Jaredu> but i can use this thing 7 hours straight
Sep 28 19:23:30 <Jaredu> every day
Sep 28 19:23:49 <johnx> I swapped to my 1GB card for several years
Sep 28 19:23:56 <derf> Yeah, but presumably you have more than one block free.
Sep 28 19:24:04 <derf> That's basically the worst case for wear-leveling.
Sep 28 19:24:09 <Jaredu> ah
Sep 28 19:24:21 <Jaredu> hmm
Sep 28 19:24:25 <Jaredu> well
Sep 28 19:24:28 <Jaredu> i suppose worst case
Sep 28 19:24:33 <Jaredu> i can send it to nokia and make them fix it
Sep 28 19:24:35 <Jaredu> :)
Sep 28 19:25:14 <johnx> and you can still use a card with damaged blocks, BTW
Sep 28 19:25:15 <Jaredu> does dpkg -i get rid of the .deb from wget ?
Sep 28 19:25:21 <johnx> no
Sep 28 19:25:21 <gomiam> nope
Sep 28 19:25:24 <Jaredu> ok
Sep 28 19:25:33 <Jaredu> so if i do wget ftp://ftp.xxxxxxxx
Sep 28 19:25:36 <Jaredu> where does it go
Sep 28 19:25:42 <gomiam> current directory
Sep 28 19:25:45 <johnx> the current directory
Sep 28 19:25:46 <johnx> pwd
Sep 28 19:25:48 <Jaredu> terminal
Sep 28 19:26:15 <Jaredu> so like
Sep 28 19:26:18 <Jaredu> if im in terminal
Sep 28 19:26:24 <Jaredu> where would it download it?
Sep 28 19:26:30 <Jaredu> say im under sudo gainroot
Sep 28 19:26:34 <gomiam> wherever you currently are
Sep 28 19:26:34 <johnx> type pwd
Sep 28 19:26:38 <Jaredu> pwd?
Sep 28 19:26:42 <johnx> yes
Sep 28 19:26:42 <johnx> pwd
Sep 28 19:26:45 <johnx> then hit enter
Sep 28 19:26:50 <johnx> that will tell you your current directory
Sep 28 19:26:59 <Jaredu> ah
Sep 28 19:27:13 <Jaredu> so i should do cd /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/
Sep 28 19:27:17 <Jaredu> and then dpkg -i
Sep 28 19:27:20 <gomiam> for example
Sep 28 19:27:28 <johnx> if that's where you downloaded it to
Sep 28 19:27:30 <gomiam> I'm more partial to /media/mmc1/deb
Sep 28 19:27:39 <johnx> or you can just click on it in file manager
Sep 28 19:27:43 <gomiam> (I created that directory on a memory card)
Sep 28 19:27:48 <Jaredu> ah
Sep 28 19:27:50 <Jaredu> nice :D
Sep 28 19:27:58 <Jaredu> how do i create dir?
Sep 28 19:28:01 <Jaredu> that sounds nice actually
Sep 28 19:28:02 <Jaredu> :P
Sep 28 19:28:05 <johnx> Jaredu, yeah, if you download everything to /home/user/foo then you're wasting space on the flash storage
Sep 28 19:28:07 <gomiam> Jaredu: mkdir path
Sep 28 19:28:11 <johnx> mkdir foo
Sep 28 19:28:18 <johnx> for example mkdir /media/mmc2/foo
Sep 28 19:28:19 <gomiam> as in mkdir /media/mmc1/deb for example
Sep 28 19:28:54 <Jaredu> mmk
Sep 28 19:28:57 <Jaredu> this should be nice then :D
Sep 28 19:29:53 <ds3> anyone here use POP with diablo?
Sep 28 19:30:01 <gomiam> ds3 me
Sep 28 19:30:08 <gomiam> with the standard client
Sep 28 19:30:13 <Jaredu> im imap w/ gmail :)
Sep 28 19:30:15 <ds3> gomiam: any problems?
Sep 28 19:30:28 <ds3> the modest beta was broken for POP when I tried it
Sep 28 19:30:28 <gomiam> ds3: none whatsoever, even when using POP3S
Sep 28 19:30:34 <ds3> cool
Sep 28 19:30:47 <ds3> I'm just going through a checklist before reflashing to diablo
Sep 28 19:31:08 <gomiam> well, the mail client eats up all my CPU whenever I connect to WiFi, but that's to be expected XD
Sep 28 19:31:27 <gomiam> if it was really a problem I would set it up so it doesn't get mail automatically
Sep 28 19:32:09 <gomiam> is $28 too much for a Kingston 8GB SDHC Class 4 memory card?
Sep 28 19:32:18 <Jaredu> thats damn nice
Sep 28 19:32:29 <Jaredu> i got my 4gb for 12
Sep 28 19:32:33 <Jaredu> but damn
Sep 28 19:32:36 <Jaredu> 8gb for 30?
Sep 28 19:32:38 <gomiam> Jaredu: (even better when translated to Euros;-)
Sep 28 19:32:44 <Jaredu> hehheh
Sep 28 19:33:13 <gomiam> EUR19,30
Sep 28 19:33:26 <gomiam> I think I should go find some dinner....
Sep 28 19:33:43 <gomiam> I may be afk for a bit. Have fun.
Sep 28 19:33:50 <Jaredu> k lol
Sep 28 19:38:35 <eero> ghello
Sep 28 19:39:02 <Jaredu> yo
Sep 28 19:40:10 <eero> I don't get it how to create a package from python software for extras-dev repo ..
Sep 28 19:41:42 <johnx> eero, I've heard about py2deb but documentation is scarce: http://www.khertan.net/py2deb.php
Sep 28 19:41:58 <eero> autobuilder doesn't seem to have python2.5 installed
Sep 28 19:42:19 <eero> and in Makefile python2.5 is used ..
Sep 28 19:42:28 <johnx> your package needs to depend on it I would assume
Sep 28 19:43:02 <eero> autobuilder returns an error that it doesn't have python2.5
Sep 28 19:43:24 <eero> I have tried everything..sigh ..
Sep 28 19:44:15 <melmoth> add python2.5 in the package control depencies. so the autobuilder will install it before compiling
Sep 28 19:44:55 <eero> I had python2.5-dev ...
Sep 28 19:45:03 <melmoth> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5),python2.5-runtime,python2.5-dev
Sep 28 19:45:23 <eero> oh..i didn't have python2.5-runtime
Sep 28 19:45:39 <eero> that was not mentioned in the documents
Sep 28 19:45:53 <eero> i'll try that..thanks
Sep 28 19:52:04 <pupnik810> moohoo
Sep 28 19:52:30 <johnx> m00f!
Sep 28 19:52:33 <jott> hey pupnik810
Sep 28 19:52:55 <pupnik810> i am going to get a umts contract
Sep 28 19:53:14 <pupnik810> looking at O2 atm
Sep 28 19:53:58 <jott> pupnik810: fyi: http://www.flat-umts.de/ gives a short overview
Sep 28 19:54:20 <pupnik810> the huawei E169 usb stick seems to have good linux support
Sep 28 19:54:25 <pupnik810> ty jott
Sep 28 19:55:17 <pupnik810> but i might get a real umts phone if i can also datalink to laptop over usb
Sep 28 19:55:27 <johnx> that new skypephone s2 looks like a great deal if it had quad-band gsm...
Sep 28 19:58:21 <pupnik810> any open-source phones with umts worth a look?
Sep 28 19:58:30 <Jaredu> hmm
Sep 28 19:58:36 <Jaredu> not many
Sep 28 19:58:37 <Jaredu> :P
Sep 28 19:58:50 <glass_> no
Sep 28 19:59:03 <johnx> pupnik810, t-mobile g1?
Sep 28 19:59:38 <pupnik810> what os, johnx?
Sep 28 19:59:53 <penguinbait> http://penguinbait.com/cdburn.png
Sep 28 19:59:53 <johnx> pupnik810, linux, google's android software stack
Sep 28 19:59:58 <johnx> out in a couple months though
Sep 28 20:00:00 <penguinbait> what do you think?
Sep 28 20:00:10 <Jaredu> http://www.t-mobileg1.com
Sep 28 20:00:21 <Jaredu> i work for tmob. indirect dealer, the g1 is nice :D
Sep 28 20:00:26 <Jaredu> its gsm though, not utms
Sep 28 20:00:48 <johnx> Jaredu, you need to brush up on your jargon then :)
Sep 28 20:00:58 <Jaredu> hmmm?
Sep 28 20:01:00 <pupnik810> hmm
Sep 28 20:01:06 <johnx> Jaredu, it's very much umts :)
Sep 28 20:01:12 <Jaredu> O'rly?
Sep 28 20:01:15 <Jaredu> oh
Sep 28 20:01:16 <Jaredu> my bad
Sep 28 20:01:17 <Jaredu> rofl
Sep 28 20:01:25 <johnx> ya
Sep 28 20:01:27 <johnx> yarly
Sep 28 20:01:32 <Jaredu> wrong term
Sep 28 20:01:35 <johnx> :D
Sep 28 20:01:47 <Jaredu> was thinking utms == crap that sprint/verizon use
Sep 28 20:01:49 <Jaredu> :P
Sep 28 20:01:54 <Jaredu> network
Sep 28 20:02:05 <Jaredu> CDMA =\= utms
Sep 28 20:02:11 <johnx> no problem, just had to pick on you a bit :D
Sep 28 20:02:14 <Jaredu> xD
Sep 28 20:02:19 * johnx is just a snarky jackass like that
Sep 28 20:02:23 <Jaredu> dually noted, i fell like an idiot now haha
Sep 28 20:02:36 <Jaredu> feel*
Sep 28 20:03:08 <johnx> Jaredu, so have you had a chance to play with it?
Sep 28 20:03:20 <Jaredu> not yet
Sep 28 20:03:23 <Jaredu> but ive played with android
Sep 28 20:03:27 <Jaredu> its a fun os
Sep 28 20:03:41 <johnx> yeah, it'll be great to have the source to that
Sep 28 20:03:44 <pupnik810> looks neato
Sep 28 20:03:57 <Jaredu> you can download the pc sdk from the site
Sep 28 20:04:04 <johnx> pupnik810, unfortunately you'll have to wait for EU 3G
Sep 28 20:04:59 <johnx> Jaredu, yup. saw it. It'll still be nice to have source though, to use it on the n8x0 or zaurus
Sep 28 20:05:08 <Jaredu> :P
Sep 28 20:05:36 <johnx> penguinbait, ok, what has a capacity of 9.1MB?
Sep 28 20:05:45 <jott> and an "opensource os" without sources is not so much "opensource" after all :)
Sep 28 20:06:03 <pupnik810> johnx what u mean wait for eu 3G --- umtg == 3G, no?
Sep 28 20:06:04 <penguinbait> it was my first dvd, I burned from my 810
Sep 28 20:06:14 <penguinbait> I wanted to start small
Sep 28 20:06:23 <johnx> pupnik810, t-mobile US runs their UMTS network on different frequencies
Sep 28 20:06:25 <pupnik810> s/umtg/umts/
Sep 28 20:06:25 <infobot> pupnik810 meant: johnx what u mean wait for eu 3G --- umts == 3G, no?
Sep 28 20:06:32 <jott> pupnik810: the g1 will be out "in 2009" in europe
Sep 28 20:06:35 <pupnik810> ohh nm
Sep 28 20:06:50 <pupnik810> need umts next week
Sep 28 20:07:01 <johnx> US just needs to be special...
Sep 28 20:07:13 <jott> a friend just got the nokia e71. seems quite nice.
Sep 28 20:07:55 <pupnik810> i just need a solid fone to pair with N810
Sep 28 20:08:04 <pupnik810> will look at e71
Sep 28 20:08:26 <pupnik810> "droppable" would be nice
Sep 28 20:09:38 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, pupnik810.
Sep 28 20:10:21 <pupnik810> hey .. jott got any preferences for provider?  o2, telekom, base, vodaphone?
Sep 28 20:10:25 <pupnik810> hi ga
Sep 28 20:10:49 <Jaredu> whats the command for opening a .tar into a .deb?
Sep 28 20:11:11 <jott> pupnik810: not really. tbh all suck :P
Sep 28 20:11:21 <Jaredu> the dir and file are /media/mmc1/deb/xulrunner1.9b5pre.en-US.linux-armel.tar
Sep 28 20:11:29 <Jaredu> or something like that
Sep 28 20:11:32 <Jaredu> how do i get that to a .deb
Sep 28 20:11:42 <jott> pupnik810: base just got simple 3g no hsdpa otherwise it seems fair.
Sep 28 20:12:00 <pupnik810> O2 will allow irc at least.  want hsdpa and hsupa
Sep 28 20:12:06 <johnx> Jaredu, a .tar is like a .zip . It's just a generic container
Sep 28 20:12:16 <jott> all other providers cap at 5-10gb
Sep 28 20:12:16 <Jaredu> so how do i untar it to .deb?
Sep 28 20:12:22 <johnx> Jaredu, you don't
Sep 28 20:12:24 <Jaredu> it was a tar.bz2
Sep 28 20:12:59 <jott> and o2 have not rolled out 7.2mbit hsdpa.. :/
Sep 28 20:13:07 <johnx> Jaredu, I think you downloaded source code instead of binaries
Sep 28 20:13:37 <johnx> Jaredu, or maybe you downloaded xulrunner binaries for desktop linux? What are you trying to do?
Sep 28 20:13:50 <Jaredu> ah
Sep 28 20:13:51 <Jaredu> nvm
Sep 28 20:13:52 <Jaredu> its -xf
Sep 28 20:13:55 <Jaredu> :D
Sep 28 20:14:16 <johnx> goodluckwiththat
Sep 28 20:35:25 <pupnik810>  //want vgba 3.61 ,)
Sep 28 20:35:42 <Jaredu> its nice
Sep 28 20:36:12 * pupnik810 stamps foot and pouts
Sep 28 20:38:41 * lcuk buys pupnik a beer n a kebab n hopes it will placate him
Sep 28 20:38:50 <lcuk> bollocks
Sep 28 21:00:39 * Jaffa points -community at http://bleb.org/software/maemo/maemo-org_mockup.png and waits for people who can actually draw/design (or not) to moan :)
Sep 28 21:00:57 <Jaredu> hmm
Sep 28 21:01:00 <zap> hmm, fakeroot does not work in scratchbox x86
Sep 28 21:01:01 <Jaredu> not too bad
Sep 28 21:01:08 <Jaredu> could be a bit better
Sep 28 21:01:16 <zap> somebody can try to invoke "fakeroot id -u" from x86 scratchbox?
Sep 28 21:01:42 <Jaffa> Jaredu: Yes, Inkscape isn't the best tool for this kind of thing. See my mail for more details on what I think are the biggest problems at the moment with it.
Sep 28 21:01:53 <zap> screenshot looks k00l
Sep 28 21:02:02 <Jaredu> it has good concept though
Sep 28 21:02:02 <woglinde> jaffa ALFA sound driver?
Sep 28 21:02:13 <Jaredu> the only thing i could biff with it is the placement of the buttons on the top right
Sep 28 21:02:14 <zap> :)
Sep 28 21:02:16 <Jaffa> Oops. Hang on :-)
Sep 28 21:02:16 <Jaredu> the rest is nice
Sep 28 21:02:23 <zap> ALFA quality ALSA driver :)
Sep 28 21:02:32 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, Ubuntu + OpenSUSE? :P
Sep 28 21:02:44 <Jaffa> ALFA is the name of my employer's product :)
Sep 28 21:03:03 <RST38h> Jaffa: this is not something I would use on daily basis
Sep 28 21:03:14 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: when in doubt...
Sep 28 21:03:21 <RST38h> Jaffa: instead, it looks like a copycat of SUSE page.
Sep 28 21:03:35 <GeneralAntilles> Way too much whitespace at the top.
Sep 28 21:04:31 <RST38h> Jaffa: Maybe if you line up those garish top buttons into a single line and make them just a little bit smaller...
Sep 28 21:04:33 <zap> but this is only the titlepage
Sep 28 21:04:39 * Jaffa would disagree on "way"
Sep 28 21:05:03 <RST38h> Jaffa: And drop sections that are irrelevant to 99% users...
Sep 28 21:05:23 <Jaffa> And which sections are irrelevant to 99% of users?
Sep 28 21:05:31 <zap> Get software :)
Sep 28 21:05:57 <RST38h> Jaffa: Community Activity (nobody to do it by hand and automatic generation impossible)
Sep 28 21:06:02 * Jaffa isn't happy with the left of the buttons and the positioning of "About maemo.org"
Sep 28 21:06:06 <RST38h> Jaffa: Bugs Activity (same thing)
Sep 28 21:06:20 <RST38h> Jaffa: Developers Activity (same thing)
Sep 28 21:06:21 <mavhc> if you're choosing 4 colours for different sections then colour those sections accordingly
Sep 28 21:06:24 <Jaffa> RST38h: No, it's not impossible to do either. I've outlined algorithms which could do both and could implement them in a day
Sep 28 21:06:43 <RST38h> Jaffa: About (too short for a newbie, useless for a regular)
Sep 28 21:06:45 <Jaffa> mavhc: in terms of the portlets, or the themes for the pages in those sections?
Sep 28 21:06:52 <mavhc> both
Sep 28 21:07:30 <RST38h> Jaffa: Well, if you demonstrate a working algorithm that will create USEFUL summary of bugzilla and itt activity, I will be the first to support inclusing of these sections onto the main page
Sep 28 21:07:33 <Jaffa> The portlets do have colouration which matches, but it may be too subtle at the moment. I'm not sure the pages themselves are technically feasible. The current background orange is basically the logo orange.
Sep 28 21:07:36 <mavhc> also where the "I'm a noob" section, what repositaries should I add, what does chinook mean, etc
Sep 28 21:08:10 <RST38h> Jaffa: But please, do start by making those ugly colorful buttons smaller and lining them up
Sep 28 21:08:13 <GeneralAntilles> mavhc, maemo.nokia.com
Sep 28 21:08:17 <Jaffa> mavhc: a) That's under "Add-ons"; b) Nokia are going to push maemo.nokia.com as the primary end-user site, and so maemo.org is only for more adventurous end-users etc.
Sep 28 21:08:27 <RST38h> btw, does your page resize?
Sep 28 21:08:32 <mavhc> I suppose the news section being non coloured confused the issue
Sep 28 21:08:45 <Jaffa> RST38h: yes, a fluid layout is essential for any website
Sep 28 21:09:01 <mavhc> should be a link to that then, as this'll be higher in google pagerank
Sep 28 21:09:38 <RST38h> ok
Sep 28 21:09:48 <Jaffa> mavhc: Probably something to put in the about box, or have mini-ads like the current maemo.org does.
Sep 28 21:10:14 <Jaffa> Anyway, I'm going to bed. I wanted to shape the discussion and last night the only conclusion was "provide mockups".
Sep 28 21:10:43 <Jaffa> I'm confident that the algorithms I describe in -community are implementable. If you disagree, take it there and we'll hammer out the detail of the algorithm in a more permanent form :-)
Sep 28 21:11:34 <RST38h> Jaffa: Please do provide a reference implementation
Sep 28 21:11:51 <RST38h> Because saying they are implementable and implementing them are two different things =(
Sep 28 21:12:00 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, see -community.
Sep 28 21:12:02 <Jaffa> I already outlined the algorithm on -community
Sep 28 21:12:19 <RST38h> no, outline won't do
Sep 28 21:12:49 <RST38h> I want to see that generating a USEFUL summary of itt, mailing lists, or bugzilla is possible
Sep 28 21:12:51 <Jaffa> RST38h: specific comments as to why the algorithm won't work are, of course, welcome.
Sep 28 21:13:11 <RST38h> No, you do not get it
Sep 28 21:13:20 <Jaffa> It's a basic rolling average, to weight stuff which is more active higher than just newest.
Sep 28 21:13:25 * Jaffa does. You don't believe me.
Sep 28 21:13:25 <RST38h> It is like the perpetual motion patent submission process
Sep 28 21:13:31 <Jaffa> <sigh />
Sep 28 21:13:39 <RST38h> Patent is only accepted when you provide a working sample
Sep 28 21:13:43 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, see -community.
Sep 28 21:14:05 <Jaffa> I'm happy I could code it. I'm not *going* to code it until there's consensus that it's useful. I'm not going to discuss it on IRC because a) it's transient, b) I'm tired; c) it's what -community is for.
Sep 28 21:14:39 <Jaffa> I'm not suggesting it's a spec I could give to one of my junior developers, but - then - it doesn't need to be (yet).
Sep 28 21:14:41 <RST38h> it IS useful. If it works.
Sep 28 21:14:51 <mavhc> http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2008-September/000955.html btw
Sep 28 21:15:05 <Jaffa> mavhc: ta
Sep 28 21:18:16 <Jaffa> G'night, all.
Sep 28 21:58:18 <AStorm> how can I make modest display multiple imap accounts?
Sep 28 21:58:29 <AStorm> (it shows only one at a time)
Sep 28 21:58:38 <jott> patch it?
Sep 28 21:59:00 <AStorm> hmmm...
Sep 28 21:59:19 <jott> i guess there is already a bug opened somewhere.
Sep 28 21:59:44 <jott> you can switch them with the nice nested menu :P
Sep 28 22:00:38 <doc|home> AStorm: modest sucks, claws is much better
Sep 28 22:00:52 <GeneralAntilles> Bullshit
Sep 28 22:00:58 <GeneralAntilles> Claws sucks for finger use
Sep 28 22:01:00 * doc|home shrugs
Sep 28 22:01:16 <doc|home> I'll take multiple accounts + not crashing over finger use
Sep 28 22:01:28 <doc|home> although it's been a while since I tried modest
Sep 28 22:01:43 <GeneralAntilles> Point being, statements like "It sucks" aren't really very useful.:P
Sep 28 22:02:23 <jott> it just aggregates a long list of flaws :P
Sep 28 22:02:27 <doc|home> it does
Sep 28 22:02:33 <GeneralAntilles> Works fine for me.
Sep 28 22:02:49 <doc|home> even the pre-modest mail client was better than modest
Sep 28 22:03:02 <doc|home> from a user point of view
Sep 28 22:03:35 <GeneralAntilles> That thing never worked for me.
Sep 28 22:03:39 <GeneralAntilles> So I don't know what you're talking about.
Sep 28 22:03:45 <doc|home> worked for me
Sep 28 22:03:50 <GeneralAntilles> Really, though, if you haven't tried Modest in a while, you probably shouldn't talk. :P
Sep 28 22:04:03 <doc|home> does it support multiple imap accounts?
Sep 28 22:04:15 <GeneralAntilles> Just fine.
Sep 28 22:04:19 <GeneralAntilles> Just not in one pane.
Sep 28 22:04:24 <AStorm> yes, but shows one at a time
Sep 28 22:04:25 <doc|home> meh
Sep 28 22:04:59 <jott> maybe someone is bored or annoyed enough to patch it.
Sep 28 22:05:08 <jott> hopefully it shouldn't be that hard.
Sep 28 22:07:34 <jott> hah the svn log of modest does not seem that helpful.
Sep 28 22:08:04 <jott> "* fixes all around " "* many fixes" "* new & improved modest" " * update" " *many changes" hilarious :)
Sep 28 22:08:18 <GeneralAntilles> I bitched at the about that.
Sep 28 22:08:49 <GeneralAntilles> Thread on -developers
Sep 28 22:09:21 <jott>  ah any reasonable response?
Sep 28 22:09:58 <GeneralAntilles> Meh
Sep 28 22:10:07 <GeneralAntilles> Check the thread
Sep 28 22:10:08 <GeneralAntilles> you decide.
Sep 28 22:10:17 <jott> as "* updates" is 2 weeks old
Sep 28 22:10:22 <jott> kk :)
Sep 28 22:11:37 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/39748?search_string=changelogs;#39748
Sep 28 22:12:48 <jott> thanks. it's not just the changelog but also the commit messages :/
Sep 28 22:13:08 <jott> equally funny.
Sep 28 22:13:21 <GeneralAntilles> Add another reply about those.
Sep 28 23:08:12 <jpereiran> somebody has problem for running pygtk on sdk?
Sep 29 01:19:26 <KotCzarny> yawn.
Sep 29 02:29:05 <E78C8EE4BABA> can anybody point me at info installing perldoc and cpan on diablo?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 29 02:59:57 2008