**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 17 02:59:57 2008 Oct 17 03:19:30 why is minigpsd so much better than gpsd Oct 17 03:20:22 Because anecdotal evidence is really super useful? Oct 17 03:21:28 im sure it is ive noticed Oct 17 03:21:46 anecdotal evidence that is Oct 17 03:21:57 What's your criteria for "so much better" Oct 17 03:23:11 i just thought it might be Oct 17 03:23:48 its verry rigorious Oct 17 03:24:50 whats your opinion GA Oct 17 03:26:28 I don't have one, I haven't tried minigpsd. Oct 17 03:26:50 have you read the thread Oct 17 03:27:54 No, tz has already caused me enough irritating on bugzilla. Oct 17 03:28:13 hmmm Oct 17 03:28:46 s/irritating/irritation/ Oct 17 03:28:46 GeneralAntilles meant: No, tz has already caused me enough irritation on bugzilla. Oct 17 03:29:05 in maemo maper with gpsd you have to set it to bluetooth for some reason Oct 17 03:29:20 in the settings Oct 17 03:29:58 im cool with that Oct 17 03:30:01 reason being: it uses the maemo bt library which interprets "" as "internal device" and starts up gpsd Oct 17 03:30:14 if you specify gpsd, it tries to connect to a daemon that is not running Oct 17 03:30:27 without asking the maemo bt library to bring it up Oct 17 03:31:56 cool Oct 17 03:32:45 is maemo totally open in that it could be ported to other handheld devices? Oct 17 03:33:17 like pandora? Oct 17 03:33:42 arquebus, it depends on how people define "maemo" but if you mean the whole OS2008 distribution: no Oct 17 03:33:43 arquebus, no. Oct 17 03:33:54 age- I dont know, it just appears to me that maemo is the only linux distro that supports commercial apps Oct 17 03:34:15 You can certainly run Maemo on Pandora/Beagle without too much hassle. Oct 17 03:35:05 arquebus, there isn't any "support" needed for commercial apps. Companies either decide it's worth their time to make commercial apps for a certain OS/distro/device or not Oct 17 03:35:10 dont know anything about pandora Oct 17 03:35:28 I've seen your Beagle setup GA Oct 17 03:35:39 Well, the important point about Pandora is that the hardware is similar enough where it counts that it's not a huge issue. Oct 17 03:35:50 johnx- thats the whole problem, commercial apps have to be ported to certain distros, there is no common installation system Oct 17 03:36:14 arquebus, in this case the bigger problem is the CPU architecture Oct 17 03:36:46 I wouldn't say "ported" though, just packaged Oct 17 03:36:56 johnx- I dont think that is a big problem, its just a matter of compiling to a cpu architecture Oct 17 03:37:21 as long as the app doesn't make assumptions about the CPU... Oct 17 03:37:43 but packaging can be done with only binaries available. there are no invasive changes to the source required Oct 17 03:39:28 hi, anyone here have a RX-48? Oct 17 03:39:49 johnx- thats true, I guess that maemo just has another package managing system, I guess I was assuming that it was something more than that considering Nokia is more commercial oriented Oct 17 03:40:15 arquebus, nope, just need to make a .deb with the right dependencies Oct 17 03:40:38 if you're only going to do it once, it's easy to do by hand, too Oct 17 03:40:41 wow, didnt know that maemo was another debian offshoot Oct 17 03:43:21 still its too bad Nokia doesnt make a more serious installation system, I think that Nokia has potential to market Linux apps big time for commercial companies, no one has tapped into the potential for selling Linux apps commercially until Android, and Android is playing it too safe by being Java only Oct 17 03:44:08 arquebus, I don't understand why you think Nokia needs to make yet another package system to entice commercial apps? Oct 17 03:45:24 they convinced skype, gizmo, adobe, boingo-mobile, access (garnetVM) to make .deb packages. Oct 17 03:45:45 * GeneralAntilles is really bored with Red Pill idiocy. Oct 17 03:46:21 * johnx found a way to confuse sizeeasy Oct 17 03:46:33 because as youve already mentioned, there is no common installation standard between distros, I think that Nokia could create a common standard for commercial software companys to develop for, and Nokia could sell these apps also Oct 17 03:46:42 well there has to be a better way than .deb packages because each packaging system puts stuff in different places Oct 17 03:47:27 that's what LSB is for. And how would Nokia making yet-another-package format convince redhat/debian to follow up? Oct 17 03:47:34 ^ Oct 17 03:48:43 * GeneralAntilles avoids using positive terminology in describing Red Pill. Oct 17 03:49:25 johnx- right now I dont think there is any avenue for either commercial or private developers to sell software without direct contracts with Nokia, but if people could sell software on their own, I think software companys would flock to cash in on the mobile Linux market Oct 17 03:49:49 arquebus, well they can do that now and they obviously haven't Oct 17 03:50:13 There needs to be a market first. Oct 17 03:50:17 and there isn't much of one yet. Oct 17 03:50:23 there are like a couple hundred thousand tablet owners at most. That's just not a market worth developing big commercial apps for Oct 17 03:50:38 unless they're ports or highly specialized (read: expensive) Oct 17 03:50:38 It's likely over 750k by now. Oct 17 03:50:59 The last numbers were in the 300k-500k range from Summer 2007. Oct 17 03:51:07 johnx- I see what youre saying, but I think what is holding back developers and software companys is they know they would only be selling for one isolated mobile Linux distro Oct 17 03:51:29 arquebus, right, and packaging isn't the problem Oct 17 03:52:11 johnx- well that goes back to my original point about how well maemo can be ported to other architectures Oct 17 03:52:34 Nokia doesn't want it to be ported. It's the same situation as MacOSX Oct 17 03:52:43 they produce software to sell hardware Oct 17 03:53:25 or at best, they're apathetic about it being ported Oct 17 03:55:44 johnx- I can understand that, Nokia has been making big money selling enterprise apps Oct 17 03:57:25 anyways, the parts of maemo that are required to make maemo apps are available on debian and ubuntu and fedora, IIRC Oct 17 04:00:08 well Nokia embraced open source by opening source on Symbian and it cost them like 40 million dollars to buy/give away Symbian, I would think they would be more open to porting out maemo Oct 17 04:01:13 whoops, $400 million, not $40 million Oct 17 04:01:35 their symbian section is pretty separate from their tablet/maemo section Oct 17 04:02:45 huh...didn't know sizeasy could do rotation... Oct 17 04:02:55 Ive heard that the gui SDK for Symbian is pretty bad, but the whole idea of opening source on Symbian is for all the industry to work together to make one united SDK and not a bunch of seperate ones Oct 17 04:02:58 Anybody have a list of all the safety locks that Red Pill disables? Oct 17 04:05:02 this Pandora thing looks interesting, I guess this is like openmoko or something, I want to buy something like that, I had the touch screen input for openmoko Oct 17 04:05:48 it's a little smaller scale than openmoko in terms of the company involved Oct 17 04:07:39 as long as it works, I'll buy one, Ive been wanting a mobile data clamshell for a long time, the only option being Nokia e90 which sucks due to its long narrow screen which is only suitable for text work Oct 17 04:08:06 Pandora isn't a cellphone. Oct 17 04:08:16 Pandora is what the 810 shoulda been Oct 17 04:09:02 freelikegnu: DAMN STRAIGHT!! Oct 17 04:09:06 freelikegnu, two years late? Oct 17 04:09:18 * GeneralAntilles doesn't care for clamshells. Oct 17 04:09:35 Pandora is also a lot bigger. Oct 17 04:09:40 the n800 is still serving me well, but it has not been Pandora that I've thought about a new device Oct 17 04:09:44 * johnx likes clamshells well enough but really wants a nice convertible tablet-thing Oct 17 04:10:23 johnx: that would be nice, like the zaurus? Oct 17 04:10:44 yeah, like the cxx00 form factor, with the n810's screen and an omap3 Oct 17 04:10:46 * johnx drools Oct 17 04:11:03 and the c1000 keyboard instead of gaming controls Oct 17 04:11:04 GeneralAntilles: I dont understand why everyone wants exposed screens, how would you carry stuff like that around without one of those stupid screen protector condoms? Oct 17 04:11:16 well, the Pandora team seems really open to design suggestions Oct 17 04:11:22 arquebus, just shove it in your pocket and don't worry about it Oct 17 04:11:39 freelikegnu, not any more. :P They're in final production Oct 17 04:11:58 I mean they were and prolly would be for the next gen device Oct 17 04:12:02 anyways, the convetible tablet design is 1) hard to pull of right and 2) patented Oct 17 04:12:03 arquebus, because my pockets aren't filled with metal shavings? Oct 17 04:12:22 GeneralAntilles: not even keys or change? Oct 17 04:12:25 GeneralAntilles, where do you keep your metal shavings? Oct 17 04:12:29 arquebus, I have two pockets. Oct 17 04:12:51 One for things likely to cause damage to other things, one for things likely to be damaged by other things. Oct 17 04:12:55 It's not hard to keep them separate. Oct 17 04:12:58 hm Oct 17 04:12:59 oh, I keep my wallet in my other front pocket, that explains it Oct 17 04:13:01 hi Oct 17 04:13:08 Wallets go in back pockets. Oct 17 04:13:11 arquebus, you need more pockets :) Oct 17 04:13:22 hi slonopotamus Oct 17 04:13:24 johnx- ture Oct 17 04:13:29 *true Oct 17 04:13:33 The Pandora team is, sadly, not very open on the software front. Oct 17 04:13:43 hey johnx I can't seem to find out if there is wpa_supplicant and driver for Diablo like there is for Chinook Oct 17 04:13:58 GeneralAntilles, they're not writing much software :) Oct 17 04:13:58 johnx, i still can't understand why mamona recommends -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp Oct 17 04:14:03 also curious about a2dp use in Diablo Oct 17 04:14:24 johnx, still, a curious behavior for a project called "OpenPandora". Oct 17 04:14:32 kernel, stuff, OE recipes, etc. Oct 17 04:14:37 s/,// Oct 17 04:14:37 GeneralAntilles meant: kernel stuff, OE recipes, etc. Oct 17 04:14:40 It seems from the forum it is possible to do a2dp, but I could not find instructions Oct 17 04:14:54 a2dp in diablo I mean Oct 17 04:14:57 GeneralAntilles, the kernel is out there. I already linked it. :P The OE recipes...are probably really boring Oct 17 04:15:10 slonopotamus, what don't you understand. that looks right Oct 17 04:15:27 but does the Pandora have celular connectivity? I dont see that listed Oct 17 04:15:33 Like I said, no. Oct 17 04:15:36 arquebus: its not a phone Oct 17 04:15:54 unless you use a usb cell modem Oct 17 04:16:04 freelikegnu, cx3110x w/ wext patches is in deblet, wpa_supplicant should work from chinook. I haven't worked on a2dp lately, but the chinook stuff should work in diablo, lardman has been hacking on sbc-dsp Oct 17 04:16:05 freelikegnu: damn damn, why do they always screw it up, how can it not have a phone, I thought only Nokia was that dumb Oct 17 04:16:20 lol? Oct 17 04:16:23 hehe Oct 17 04:16:36 You realize how much trouble putting a cellular modem in there would be? Oct 17 04:16:50 ...especially selling it *internationally* Oct 17 04:17:00 johnx: thats heartening, one of the things keeping me from upgrading yet Oct 17 04:17:18 GeneralAntilles: No I dont, they can fit cellphones in watches if they want to, and there is such thing as unlocked phones Oct 17 04:17:40 GeneralAntilles, if they don't get their source out around release you'll know because I'll be screaming about it on every forum in the world :) Oct 17 04:18:07 arquebus, it's a regulations thing Oct 17 04:18:15 It's not about the hardware Oct 17 04:18:21 arquebus, FCC testing for a licensed band radio transmitter Oct 17 04:18:32 There are hundreds of regulatory agencies you have to comply with. Oct 17 04:18:38 Compliance costs time and money Oct 17 04:18:52 and I get the feeling that GSM/HSPA chipsets aren't really that cheap Oct 17 04:19:09 otherwise I think we'd see more 3rd party data cards Oct 17 04:19:21 It wouldn't sell for $350 with only 3000 units in the first run if it had a cellular modem, that's for sure. Oct 17 04:19:43 also...I can totally imagine talking into the pandora Oct 17 04:20:02 it'd be waaay better than the whole n-gage "side-talkin" thing Oct 17 04:22:33 johnx- its just the convenience of connecting to a celular network, Im thinking of buying a unlimited airtime contract, but I need a serious handset that can handle everything I want Oct 17 04:22:50 johnx- I would never talk into the thing Oct 17 04:23:05 Sounds like you'll want to get an N900. Oct 17 04:23:07 then what you want is a pandora+usb HSPA stick Oct 17 04:23:32 GeneralAntilles, heh. hope I don't get kneecapped for selling on rival turf :) Oct 17 04:24:01 I can't imagine carting around a Pandora with a 3g dongle. Oct 17 04:24:05 That sounds like hell. Oct 17 04:24:16 Even if it has the juice to power it without relying on a powered hub. Oct 17 04:25:03 GeneralAntilles, it does have the juice, and it shouldn't be bad sticking out of the top Oct 17 04:25:12 wait - a pandora discussion? Oct 17 04:25:18 are they shipping yet? Oct 17 04:25:22 (j/k) Oct 17 04:25:24 Yes, I know it has the juice. Oct 17 04:25:26 I've been found out /me runs Oct 17 04:25:37 oh, I see the n900 is just another n810 with the slide out keyboard Oct 17 04:25:58 arquebus, the N900 isn't anything more than "OMAP3430, HSPA, HD camera" yet. Oct 17 04:26:08 Anybody claiming otherwise is spouting rumors. Oct 17 04:26:25 nah, the n900 is the hypothetical device coming out sometime in the middle of next year that will have HSPA of some type Oct 17 04:27:10 all Nokia would have to do is make it a clamshell and I would buy it, but everyone is stuck on exposed screens now Oct 17 04:27:43 um, that *does* sound like a pandora Oct 17 04:28:13 Clamshell sucks for walking around. Oct 17 04:28:28 GeneralAntilles, how many have you walked around with? Oct 17 04:28:38 to be honest I was worried about messing up my n800's screen, but it's been wedged in my pocket almost everyday for 1.5 years now Oct 17 04:28:54 as long as it fits in my shirt pocket I'm happy Oct 17 04:29:00 GeneralAntilles, alternatively: you're doing it wrong :) Oct 17 04:29:01 johnx, are you seriously telling me that trying to two-hand finger a clamshell walking around is gonna work? Oct 17 04:29:09 With the case dangling in the air? Oct 17 04:29:14 I don't think so. Oct 17 04:29:15 that sounds very dirty Oct 17 04:29:39 night Oct 17 04:29:54 i dont know what you meant by that, but if my pandora lets me do that, i might get arrested. Oct 17 04:30:10 GeneralAntilles, I seem to use the stylus more on my C1000 i guess. I think left hand holding the base and right hand poking the screen would be fine as long as the hinge is strong Oct 17 04:30:21 Yeah, I never use the stylus. Oct 17 04:30:25 Thumbs Oct 17 04:30:26 period. Oct 17 04:30:32 Clamshell doesn't work for that. Oct 17 04:30:41 I like that I can use the n800 mostly onehanded Oct 17 04:30:47 GeneralAntilles, a lot of touchscreen actions will be obviated by using the thumbsticks for scrolling, etc Oct 17 04:31:14 I don't want that. Oct 17 04:31:15 I want a slab Oct 17 04:31:39 'course, it'd be great if Nokia would ship both Oct 17 04:31:45 then everybody would be satisfied. Oct 17 04:31:57 failing that it would be nice if most of the same software worked on both Oct 17 04:32:02 * johnx hacks Oct 17 04:32:26 The tablet line is ready for some hardware choice. Oct 17 04:32:56 opensourced maemo apps need to get ready to be on more than one device Oct 17 04:33:13 Stskeeps and I were discussing that the other day. Oct 17 04:33:33 One of the possible goals with osv-c should be to focus on portability. Oct 17 04:33:39 UIs on mobile linux are such a fuster cluck Oct 17 04:33:44 what's the interface on the pandora? Oct 17 04:33:57 Luria, gmenu2x. just a basic launcher Oct 17 04:34:06 pandora is a BYOC (bring your own code) type of deal Oct 17 04:34:12 They're shipping Ångstrom now. Oct 17 04:34:19 E17, presumably. Oct 17 04:34:24 yup, angstrom+kdrive+gmenu2x Oct 17 04:34:28 Oh? Oct 17 04:34:29 GeneralAntilles, that would be a negative Oct 17 04:34:31 nice, actually Oct 17 04:34:34 why kdrive rather than xorg? Oct 17 04:34:40 Lighter Oct 17 04:34:48 mgedmin, why ride a motorcycle when you can drive a tank?! Oct 17 04:34:49 people on xorg@ claim it's no longer true Oct 17 04:34:58 johnx: I though Sugar might be a nice GUI for n8X Oct 17 04:35:07 n8xx Oct 17 04:35:08 kdrive is unmaintained and maemo is switching to xorg in the next release Oct 17 04:35:31 I think the pandora guys are actually going to head that way too, but for now the drivers are ready for kdrive Oct 17 04:35:49 and one X server is as good as another to me as long as it works Oct 17 04:36:08 * johnx is soooo $%*&ing glad X11 is standardized Oct 17 04:36:20 hah Oct 17 04:36:45 shame, i like enlightenment Oct 17 04:36:49 but yeah being as "standard" as it is is certainly impressive Oct 17 04:37:04 Luria, compiling it should be really, really easy Oct 17 04:37:09 Hell Oct 17 04:37:12 it's already compiled. Oct 17 04:37:26 well, that's true too :) Oct 17 04:37:51 actually, I could spit out an up to the minute build now if anyone wants it :) Oct 17 04:38:06 johnx, soon, soon Oct 17 04:38:31 sigh, i need to rebuild this network Oct 17 04:39:05 my crosscompiling machine was a recent casualty of reformatting Oct 17 04:39:41 sadness. i run my cross compiles on other peoples' servers Oct 17 04:40:14 actually, that xcompiler was set up for someone else's benefit Oct 17 04:40:31 but i have all these odd machines to set up Oct 17 04:41:06 in some way that makes sense Oct 17 04:41:56 I wonder if anyone uses their n800 as a router Oct 17 04:42:20 for the bt/hdspa connection? Oct 17 04:42:21 I'm pretty sure some people do Oct 17 04:42:23 been done Oct 17 04:42:25 with a usb hub and usb ethnet adapters Oct 17 04:42:26 it gets asked all the time Oct 17 04:42:31 ahaha Oct 17 04:42:32 heh Oct 17 04:42:35 that would be way better Oct 17 04:42:52 thats dumb, but sure Oct 17 04:44:17 sigh, there should be a website where you could post a list of your accumulated hardware and people could suggest topologies and/or interesting things to do Oct 17 04:45:06 don't look at me, I'm still working on a use for my zaurus 5500 Oct 17 04:45:10 and someone just promised me a rs/6000 too Oct 17 04:45:16 though rss ticker, weather applet seems like a good idea Oct 17 04:45:40 after they heard i have a 1997 as/400 in the (ebay) mail Oct 17 04:46:06 sigh, i see the remains of my 5600 over there Oct 17 04:46:20 with a dead charging circuit Oct 17 04:46:41 hmmm.... maybe ill try and fix it Oct 17 04:47:03 I need a purpose for an O2...but other than that I try to stay in the embedded world. I have tons of stuff, but it's small stuff :) Oct 17 04:47:15 an sgi o2? Oct 17 04:47:19 yeah Oct 17 04:47:23 hah I have one sitting around too Oct 17 04:47:24 hehe Oct 17 04:47:35 im still kicking myself for not buying one for $60 at defcon this year Oct 17 04:47:36 I thought about debian, but no acceleration Oct 17 04:47:41 worse yet Oct 17 04:47:52 it has the video capture too Oct 17 04:47:58 lucky Oct 17 04:48:05 I have the audio capture only :/ Oct 17 04:48:11 i have a sgi 1600sw here on my floor Oct 17 04:48:19 but cant use it with bsd Oct 17 04:48:27 last time I tried linux X didn't work, and I (obviously) don't have an sgi support contract so I can't get a recent version of irix Oct 17 04:48:39 cant or wont :-) Oct 17 04:49:06 does bsd have drivers for the vid pature and accelerated graphics? Oct 17 04:49:11 can't justify selling everything I own to pay for a dying OS :P Oct 17 04:49:13 *capture Oct 17 04:52:09 sigh, i need to go shop for a power supply for the cheapy 8 core machine i "accidentally" built last night Oct 17 04:52:42 wow...the netbsd guys got graphics accel working for the o2 Oct 17 04:52:47 * johnx falls out of his chair Oct 17 04:53:08 good for them Oct 17 04:53:38 i need to get netbsd on my qube Oct 17 04:53:51 whoa! Oct 17 04:53:54 maybe on my sparc5 Oct 17 04:54:33 though 1998 solaris has kitsch value... cde ftw Oct 17 04:56:48 wow support for lots of PCI devices including vid and sound cards ^^ Oct 17 04:58:31 on netbsd/sgimips? Oct 17 04:59:00 * GeneralAntilles bugs HAVA about getting HAVAPlayer into Extras or Tableteer. Oct 17 05:01:11 The Beagle pico projector is droolworthy. Oct 17 05:01:28 GeneralAntilles, that would be pretty awesome Oct 17 05:02:21 http://www.woot.com/ Oct 17 05:02:23 moo, all Oct 17 05:02:33 4gb micro SD for 11.99 shipped Oct 17 05:02:42 Google Groups stripped the image Oct 17 05:02:47 morning Oct 17 05:02:47 too small! Oct 17 05:02:51 heh Oct 17 05:03:49 http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/beaglepico1.jpg http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/beaglepico2.jpg http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/beaglepico3.jpg Oct 17 05:04:30 http://my.opera.com/Macallan/blog/index.dml/tag/O2 Oct 17 05:05:46 i want one Oct 17 05:05:49 v.cool GeneralAntilles Oct 17 05:06:39 I need to duct tape one to my enviro-friendly-Beagle-case™ http://flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/2835092325/ Oct 17 05:07:54 ok, ill sound like an idiot, but what's deblet? Oct 17 05:08:06 ah never mind Oct 17 05:08:16 found the project page Oct 17 05:08:44 is there a better option than xvkbd as non-maemo kb Oct 17 05:09:20 GeneralAntilles, I keep looking at the beagle board and thinking how cool it would be to have have a laptop in a leather bound day-planner Oct 17 05:09:49 Hehe Oct 17 05:14:07 Luria: debian for tsblets Oct 17 05:14:18 yeah i see that Oct 17 05:14:43 looks promising Oct 17 05:14:43 Luria: Can't be called "debian" because debian people are morons Oct 17 05:15:38 thats what i was wondering about... is there a debian /armel branch? Oct 17 05:15:44 Yes Oct 17 05:17:34 RST38h, for the record, the debian guys never said anything. mostly people getting cranky on their behalf :) Oct 17 05:18:13 johnx: Ah, then let us correct it: "because debian is surrounded by morons" Oct 17 05:18:44 [and I still do not understand WHY something like this would happen] Oct 17 05:18:46 RST38h, "because everyone wants to tell you what color to paint the shed, but no one wants to help you paint." Oct 17 05:19:11 RST38h, to keep people from forking debian for a commercial product, including a whole bunch of proprietary crud and calling it debian Oct 17 05:19:19 RST38h, hence maemo not debian :) Oct 17 05:19:26 hm... do I want 4 GB microSD cards? Oct 17 05:21:15 why n810 didn't come with a microsd slot :( Oct 17 05:21:30 microsd -> minisd adapter Oct 17 05:21:59 yes, but that would work even better with a 16 GB microSD card, don't you think? Oct 17 05:22:50 johnx: This only happens because you are not suggesting people to go screw themselves often enough =) Oct 17 05:22:56 I'm doing it with a 8gb card :P http://beford.org/cosas/DSC01799.JPG Oct 17 05:23:21 mgedmin: get a 16GB card in 2-3 months Oct 17 05:23:31 will be in $40..$60 range at that time Oct 17 05:24:17 johnx: considering that deblet is by no measure a commercial product, this is what its mantainers should have done in the first place Oct 17 05:25:14 RST38h, the thinking was: better a simple rename now then pain later. also deblet is more googleable than debian internet tablet nokia n800 Oct 17 05:26:01 heh =) Oct 17 05:50:08 I am trying to install a program in scratchbox called pyxdg. The install programs trys to create a file in /scratchbox/tools/lib/python2.3/site-packages/ Oct 17 05:50:25 but I get permission denied because I am not root. How do I get around this other than changing permissions on that directory Oct 17 05:51:02 run-standalone.sh fakeroot pyxdg Oct 17 05:51:19 k..let me try that Oct 17 05:52:49 melmoth - no. same thing. What does run-standalone.sh do Oct 17 05:53:03 prepare your environment so dbus thingy works Oct 17 05:53:19 hey, pyxdg is a lib of some sort. Oct 17 05:53:38 yes, pyxdg is a python library Oct 17 05:54:05 should it really be trying to install itself in that directory? Isn't there another python directory in sb as well? Oct 17 05:54:33 python lib should be compiled against python2.5 Oct 17 05:55:00 the defautl python comes with nothing. The python2.5 comes with hildon support as well as lots of other things Oct 17 05:55:30 now, you may want to check how/where it choose wich python to use. Oct 17 05:56:44 scratchbox's internal python is pretty crappy. but it's there because things like the scratchbox shell is python etc. Dunno why it tries to make you use it for compiling though Oct 17 05:56:51 well, "compiling" Oct 17 06:27:06 would anybody know how to find out which package provides a certain file on my drive? Oct 17 06:27:15 on ubuntu/linux Oct 17 06:27:40 dpkg -S /path/file Oct 17 06:27:40 or just dpkg -S file Oct 17 06:27:58 only works if it's installed, if it's not installed you should hit packages.ubuntu.com to find a package that provides that file Oct 17 06:28:29 thanks for the speedy answer, got the result I wanted :) Oct 17 06:29:03 sure, no problem Oct 17 06:29:34 nice, the pc file is gthread-2.0, the library name libgthread-2.0 and the package is libgthread-2.0-dev Oct 17 06:29:35 this gives me an idea for a nautilus script... Oct 17 06:29:51 it's so confusing sometimes Oct 17 06:30:16 in this case the naming is usually similar for everything Oct 17 06:30:28 but sometimes .pc files pick weird names and confuse me too :/ Oct 17 06:31:27 no, it's actually libglib2.0-dev that provides the .pc file Oct 17 06:31:56 well that makes sense: .pc files are only for compiling things, so they go in the -dev package Oct 17 06:32:21 right Oct 17 06:33:20 oh, libglib. that is confusing :S Oct 17 06:33:30 sometimes the pc files have a "lib" suffix and sometimes they dont. Sometimes they have "-2.0" or something, and sometimes not Oct 17 06:34:37 well ubuntu/debian force standard names on package. so even if I make a lib and call it foo, debian will rename it to libfoo.deb but if they change the name of the .pc configure scripts looking for foo.pc would break on debian...so Oct 17 06:35:13 I mean, "lib" prefix of course Oct 17 06:35:33 so the lib prefix is recommended practice Oct 17 06:35:59 right, so random people writing software name the .pc whatever they want. and distros can't do anything about it :) Oct 17 06:36:41 and changing the .pc filename between versions is evil Oct 17 06:36:48 definitely Oct 17 06:43:36 what about symlinks? Oct 17 06:43:57 you can always add old symlinks for "compatibility" Oct 17 07:04:24 Too many packages disagree with that standard. There are too many packages and too many packagers to keep track of everything. Oct 17 07:04:48 And ubuntu want to simplify everything aswell, so they make all these meta-packages, which just make everything more annoying. Oct 17 07:06:59 what's the problem with meta-packages? Oct 17 07:10:07 Metapackages is not really an issue, but when there is many of them it get's annoying Oct 17 07:10:17 I wish they could use there tags a bit more Oct 17 07:10:36 right now you don't really know what a package might give you if you simply look at it's name Oct 17 07:24:40 moo-mo :) Oct 17 07:25:37 m00f Oct 17 07:26:54 morning pupnik810 Oct 17 07:26:58 moved there? Oct 17 07:33:56 re Oct 17 07:34:13 is possible to have a swap file > 128mb ? Oct 17 07:34:32 yes, of course. but you can't make it with the GUI Oct 17 08:06:27 solmumaha: shadowwarrior is in extras-devel, but without level downloading Oct 17 08:06:57 Morning, all Oct 17 08:07:28 solmumaha: ja2 licence is pretty problematic Oct 17 08:21:32 mikkov_: prevents from downloading/extracting them? Oct 17 08:29:36 ~lart hildon-fm for depending on private parts of the gtk+ API Oct 17 08:29:36 * infobot makes a balloon animal out of hildon-fm for depending on private parts of the gtk+ API Oct 17 08:44:39 solmumaha: ja2 source licence is not exactly what I would call open source Oct 17 08:55:43 johnx: morn Oct 17 08:57:37 johnx, i thought gtk+ was open? Oct 17 08:57:54 but mmmnm i agree if its not Oct 17 08:58:04 it is Oct 17 08:58:09 mornin folks o/ Oct 17 08:58:25 but maemo gtk+ is interesting, it breaks quite a lot of stuff when it's not used under maemo Oct 17 08:58:48 ahhh :D its been microsfted Oct 17 08:58:52 morning. I have a problem installing ESbox with eclipse. No targets appear. Can I compare my setting with somebody? Oct 17 08:59:03 damn, bbl Oct 17 08:59:10 * lcuk cant get five minutes anymore Oct 17 08:59:13 johnx: crazy idea: shortcut library loading paths to point to a path where maemo gtk is laying, for maemo apps? Oct 17 08:59:16 Stskeeps: It seems that fremantle will be more aligned with upstream. Oct 17 08:59:23 X-Fade: i hope so Oct 17 08:59:32 johnx: like a maemo-launcher thing :P Oct 17 08:59:40 Stskeeps: If I look at the commits, it looks like it. Oct 17 08:59:46 Stskeeps, that almost seems reasonable Oct 17 09:00:03 then we can coexist GTK apps Oct 17 09:00:11 Stskeeps: maemo-launcher is just a 'cache' right? Oct 17 09:00:14 lcuk, gtk is open, but it has some "volatile" internal APIs that change often and hildon-fm loves to use them Oct 17 09:00:32 X-Fade: yeah, but we might as well add some functionality since we don't want to break system GTK with maemo GTK Oct 17 09:00:47 and maemo apps get launched with it anyway Oct 17 09:00:53 Stskeeps, most normal maemo apps would need to be hacked to work with normal GTK, right? Oct 17 09:00:58 yeah Oct 17 09:01:04 well Oct 17 09:01:11 those who use nokia extensions Oct 17 09:01:25 I wonder how prevalent that is among the open source apps Oct 17 09:01:26 Stskeeps: Yes they do that so they don't have to load gtk over and over again. It forks with gtk already loaded. Oct 17 09:01:44 Stskeeps: That is purely a performance thing. Oct 17 09:02:05 X-Fade: yeah, and i think it's a good idea - we're just trying to find a reasonable way to including maemo gtk on a non-maemo system Oct 17 09:02:34 Stskeeps: iirc it supports plug-ins. Oct 17 09:02:45 Stskeeps: So perhaps... Oct 17 09:03:12 johnx: but making a seperate lib path for gtk should be a trivial package patch Oct 17 09:03:24 (i guess) Oct 17 09:03:32 yeah, since we would need to launch hildon apps with a script anyways Oct 17 09:03:36 *nod* Oct 17 09:03:43 well worth pondering Oct 17 09:03:50 god, i need coffee Oct 17 09:03:54 heh Oct 17 09:04:09 and I need to keep cleaning Oct 17 09:04:11 back later Oct 17 09:04:14 cya Oct 17 09:07:55 http://exiledonline.com/tips-for-new-paupers/#more-1455 Oct 17 09:21:51 morning Oct 17 09:45:50 moo, lardman, pupnik Oct 17 09:46:24 moo, RST38h Oct 17 09:47:05 ehlo, sts Oct 17 09:54:18 hi RST38h Oct 17 09:54:40 what is a nice midsize workhorse thinkpad Oct 17 09:54:50 AVOID. Oct 17 09:55:14 security issue? Oct 17 09:55:28 * RST38h is writing this from a Lenovo T61 and it sucks moose balls Oct 17 09:55:35 :( Oct 17 09:55:52 what is bad? Oct 17 09:56:00 The original IBM models at least had the nice plastic and sturdy build Oct 17 09:56:09 yes i want that Oct 17 09:56:17 Ne Lenovo ones have "Made in China" all over 'em Oct 17 09:56:22 s/Ne/The/ Oct 17 09:56:22 RST38h meant: The Lenovo ones have "Made in China" all over 'em Oct 17 09:56:25 :( Oct 17 09:56:51 my A30 is built ok Oct 17 09:57:23 except for a 1-pixel wide red line in the display Oct 17 09:57:36 And, also, it is thick, heavy, designed like a piece of Soviet machinery, comes with system software that acts up, has now got 16:9 screen (very uncomfortable unless you are watching movies), and the screen backlight (LEDs?) is somewhat bleak Oct 17 09:57:48 matybe T40,42,43 Oct 17 09:57:52 (P) Oct 17 09:58:08 T43 was probably the best, if you compare it with other ThinkPads Oct 17 09:58:14 WANT usb 2.0 Oct 17 09:58:25 Why not consider Toshiba R500 or R600? Oct 17 09:58:58 they have nipple mouse controller? (trackpoint) Oct 17 09:59:18 checking.. Oct 17 09:59:21 not really, they do not have the Masturbator (tm) Oct 17 09:59:32 But they do weight 2.4lb Oct 17 09:59:54 My Lenovo T61 sits firmly at my desk unless I really need it somewhere else. Oct 17 10:00:22 i don't need another life crisis (notebook w/o trackpoint) atm Oct 17 10:00:40 you can buy an external one :) Oct 17 10:00:42 but maybe somewhat smaller is goodder Oct 17 10:01:09 I'm getting used to the trackpad at my EEE 901. Oct 17 10:01:11 those things are going away sooner or later anyway, so better get used now Oct 17 10:01:34 * pupnik810 gets a panicked look Oct 17 10:02:07 pupnik810: new macbook looks nice ;) Oct 17 10:02:16 heyas sol Oct 17 10:02:22 btw, for real comfortable feeling you can get yourself a real external trackball - beats the masturbator Oct 17 10:03:10 maybe a business dell w tpoint Oct 17 10:03:26 Dells are heavy too Oct 17 10:03:42 and am i the only one here who hates this glare screen trend? Oct 17 10:03:46 hmm Oct 17 10:03:50 Why do you insist on the trackpoint so much? Oct 17 10:04:04 trackpoint++ Oct 17 10:04:19 i can mouse and type from home position Oct 17 10:04:22 'cause it's better, and if you disagree you're wrong :P Oct 17 10:04:53 johnx: I have worn off half of my finger while using this abomination on Portege 720CT Oct 17 10:05:07 you're doin' it wrong Oct 17 10:05:20 RST38h, Oct 17 10:05:25 !)"9 Oct 17 10:05:25 Not "are". "Have been". Not expecting a repeat, too Oct 17 10:05:37 toughen up your fingers maybe? sandpaper works well Oct 17 10:05:38 also product liability - Oct 17 10:05:49 or guitar playing Oct 17 10:06:03 johnx: Or screw a handle onto it, Atari style =) Oct 17 10:06:23 pupnik810: when are you heading home? Oct 17 10:07:18 saturday Oct 17 10:07:57 getting rid of my power-munching desktops Oct 17 10:10:26 going to a used laptop shop to check out the thinkpads Oct 17 10:10:42 T43 is not so bad Oct 17 10:10:42 check the macbooks too Oct 17 10:11:00 Apple products cause brain damage in people. AVOID. Oct 17 10:11:48 RST38h: the damage is already done so they work for me Oct 17 10:12:05 best c2d lappy i saw was a dell so far Oct 17 10:12:10 heh Oct 17 10:12:15 apple products keep the doctor away Oct 17 10:12:17 RST38h, you have to admit they have some interesting ideas Oct 17 10:12:26 lcuk: because he's too scared? Oct 17 10:13:13 i prefer to hang a severed goat's head on the front door Oct 17 10:14:15 cos norton wont install on macs :D (or does it ..) Oct 17 10:14:26 lcuk: i hope not Oct 17 10:14:35 but maybe in wine ;) Oct 17 10:15:47 mmmmm wine Oct 17 10:15:54 * aquatix would like some Oct 17 10:15:57 gotta work though :( Oct 17 10:16:16 virtual wine Oct 17 10:17:58 * Stskeeps would enjoy getting completely hammered Oct 17 10:18:57 johnx: saw the first contributions from deblet to debian has started occouring? :) (0xffff in this instance Oct 17 10:19:08 Stskeeps, awesome! Oct 17 10:22:41 Hello. I want to profile a program that I portet no N800. Is there a profiler for OS2008? Oct 17 10:22:47 *ported Oct 17 10:24:30 what do you mean by profiler? Oct 17 10:25:19 napsy_: oprofile.. but not sure if it actually works Oct 17 10:25:50 ok Oct 17 10:29:56 oprofile does work Oct 17 10:31:18 i had issues getting it working under deblet, no clue why Oct 17 10:31:25 didn't get any samples out Oct 17 10:31:44 (yes, i do have a nokia oprofile kernel Oct 17 10:33:06 * Mek couldn't even get it to work in maemo, but I didn't try very long Oct 17 10:44:18 johnx: They do, indeed. But what happens to their recent converts can only be called disturbing. Oct 17 10:45:12 RST38h, meh. you just never hear from *normal* mac users Oct 17 10:45:31 johnx: THAT is the disturbing part Oct 17 10:45:53 heh...and they were never heard from again? Oct 17 10:46:14 johnx: They either do not exist or somethign happens to them Oct 17 10:46:17 I think it's just that they're satisfied customers that don't really make a bother of themselves Oct 17 10:46:51 johnx: can hardly believe it - there will ALWAYS be a few unsatsified Oct 17 10:47:11 definitely. and *those* are hunted down and brainwashed Oct 17 10:47:21 Eaten! Oct 17 10:47:26 but really, if someone asks me "What kind of computer should I get?" I usually just tell them to get a Mac Oct 17 10:47:42 Fried in a aluminium desktop case and ritually eaten Oct 17 10:48:05 * RST38h has managed to crash some poor Indian tech support guy once Oct 17 10:48:06 RST38h: with apple sauce! Oct 17 10:48:19 ah? Oct 17 10:48:31 Called Verizon about dead DSL, got routed to Bombay (or whatever), and there was the preprogrammed Indian guy Oct 17 10:49:28 Do you have Windows? -- No. -- Do you have a Mac? -- No. -- Do you have a Linux (with suspicion now)? -- No. -- What do you have then? Oct 17 10:49:53 :) Oct 17 10:49:59 yes, of course. but you can't make it with the GUI Oct 17 10:50:00 -- A DLink router. -- Oct 17 10:50:03 any guide out there ? Oct 17 10:50:33 RST38h: ? Oct 17 10:50:47 ? Oct 17 10:50:56 RST38h: that's no OS, that's a router ;) Oct 17 10:51:15 aquatix: Yes, but I have been inquiring about DSL connection problems and it is the router that is connected Oct 17 10:52:03 L0cutus, uhm...good question Oct 17 10:52:32 RST38h: heh, k :) Oct 17 10:52:37 i try to google first :) Oct 17 10:52:44 anyone laid hands on a thinkpad "R"-series? Oct 17 10:52:53 johnx, Hmm, to increse the size of the swap you would have to increse the size of the partition, right? Oct 17 10:53:11 zhaozhou, it's easier to just make a swap file instead of a swap partition Oct 17 10:53:48 some of the component choices make better sense - i dont think the nvidia quadros are really optimal for gaming Oct 17 10:53:58 johnx, can't say i've ever seen a swap file in linux, let alone debian. Oct 17 10:54:14 pupnik810, I have an r61 Oct 17 10:54:19 dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/some.swap bs=1024 count=9600 ; mkswap /media/mmc1/some.swap ; swapon /media/mmc1/some.swap Oct 17 10:54:34 change 9600 to some other value for a different size Oct 17 10:54:46 johnx, aaaah! Oct 17 10:54:49 johnx, way to simple. Oct 17 10:55:08 zhaozhou, interesting! can you say how it feels compared to older t-series? Oct 17 10:55:29 or make other pro/con comments? Oct 17 10:55:35 pupnik810, Shamely enought this is my first thinkpad Oct 17 10:55:54 pupnik810, But i can't say nothing else then i love it with all my heart Oct 17 10:55:57 pupnik810, it's wonderful Oct 17 10:56:06 :) Oct 17 10:56:21 what do you like about it? Oct 17 10:56:27 johnx, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6589&postcount=5 Oct 17 10:56:28 :) Oct 17 10:56:30 thanks Oct 17 10:57:18 pupnik810, It's as it was made for linux. IBM has lots and lots of tutorials about r-series is specific Oct 17 10:57:46 L0cutus, that should work fine :) Oct 17 10:57:53 intel gma gpu? Oct 17 10:58:23 950... Oct 17 10:58:30 pupnik810, Well. The processor is not really bad, actually performs way better then my 2 year old desktop. Graphic is OK, i can't play eve in linux since cedega does not support intel ): but i've been playing hl2 and team fortress 2 in windows Oct 17 10:58:35 pupnik810, actually its a x3100 Oct 17 10:58:50 oki Oct 17 10:58:58 pupnik810, but the best of all, imo, is the networkcard, wireless card and the HDAPI Oct 17 10:59:09 hdapi=? Oct 17 10:59:30 wifi performance good? Oct 17 10:59:38 pupnik810, network card support jumbo frames which are gigantic, i had to buy new PCI cards for all my desktops to perform as good. :-D Oct 17 10:59:53 nice Oct 17 11:00:20 * pupnik810 ponders Oct 17 11:00:51 pupnik810, Indeed! Quick as hell. My school have 40 or 50 APs around, this computer just switches between them as if they were nothing. My HP can't keep track of them, and the HP is using the 43xx which every vendor seems to love so much Oct 17 11:01:01 pupnik810, However, the hdaps... well, youtube it. ;-) Oct 17 11:01:42 oki Oct 17 11:01:43 pupnik810, It's an accelerometer which you can use as a joystick. Gotta love the different scripts you can get. Oct 17 11:01:57 hah Oct 17 11:02:32 pupnik810, I.e. smack the computer, and it switches song. :-D Tilt to change desktop, perhaps thiefprotection, or just play a game by tilting the laptop. Oct 17 11:02:38 pupnik810, I've had lots and lots of fun with that. Oct 17 11:02:49 and a computer just loves when you smack it Oct 17 11:02:50 :P Oct 17 11:03:28 haha Oct 17 11:03:49 Well, thinkpads are well known to be tough, as you probably know. Oct 17 11:04:21 hey all, anyone know where I can find libnss-mdns for diablo? Oct 17 11:05:01 haha HDAPS on T60 controlling Beryl.. Oct 17 11:05:56 i am really eyeing this nice dell D830 for 499 euro Oct 17 11:06:47 specs? Oct 17 11:06:55 matte screen 16??x10?? and trackpoint Oct 17 11:07:16 2007-2008 model Oct 17 11:07:56 T7300 Core2D i think Oct 17 11:08:15 2gb ram 80GB HDD Oct 17 11:08:58 intel gma 950 gpu Oct 17 11:09:52 could get one with quadro nvs 140 Oct 17 11:10:46 pupnik810, what's the price difference between the r61 and the d830? Oct 17 11:11:06 dunno Oct 17 11:11:10 chkng Oct 17 11:11:24 I want new macbook Oct 17 11:11:55 I wins, just make a script that creates webalizer.confs automatically to over 500+ hosts Oct 17 11:11:58 ugh, the new macbook, the aluminium one, it's so ugly. Oct 17 11:12:01 s/make/made/ Oct 17 11:12:02 wiza meant: I wins, just made a script that creates webalizer.confs automatically to over 500+ hosts Oct 17 11:12:14 nice bot Oct 17 11:12:24 whoa Oct 17 11:12:32 infobot++ Oct 17 11:12:47 Hmm... let me just tryes this out Oct 17 11:12:51 s:tryes:try: Oct 17 11:12:59 ): Oct 17 11:14:54 300 euro Oct 17 11:15:16 is the r61 300 euro more? Oct 17 11:15:21 forward slash Oct 17 11:15:23 s/is/test/ Oct 17 11:15:23 zhaozhou meant: test the r61 300 euro more? Oct 17 11:15:25 yes sir Oct 17 11:15:27 s/test/is/ Oct 17 11:15:39 whoa Oct 17 11:15:57 is your nick registered? Oct 17 11:16:01 yes it is Oct 17 11:17:34 ah it doesnt store its substituted output in its input buffer Oct 17 11:19:58 Are you the author of the bot? Oct 17 11:20:06 what is the best GPS program for Maemo that is free Oct 17 11:20:07 ? Oct 17 11:20:23 I'm using maemo mapper Oct 17 11:20:37 does that work well? Oct 17 11:21:05 Indeed it does. The GPS device does not, it cant find me. But the application is sweet. Oct 17 11:21:33 like I have seen how TomTom works and its pretty awesome Oct 17 11:21:43 so you don't use it for GPS? Oct 17 11:21:52 WHat feature are you looking for? Oct 17 11:21:57 Nah, not really. Oct 17 11:22:13 Well, come to think of it, i'm going to try search for my location now. Oct 17 11:22:23 I'll start a search and lay the device by the window for awhile. Oct 17 11:23:41 I tried installing maemo-mapper on my N810 a week ago and it did not want to install Oct 17 11:24:39 zetheroo, really? which OS do you have? Oct 17 11:24:50 I flashed it to the right one Oct 17 11:25:08 I was told here that there was a bug and that it was being fixed Oct 17 11:25:40 I'll try it again now .. Oct 17 11:31:06 it installed Oct 17 11:31:20 and says Searching for GPS Receiver ... Oct 17 11:32:06 mine is still in the window searching for satellites Oct 17 11:32:08 zetheroo: is your gps working with satellite ? Oct 17 11:32:22 what else would it work with? Oct 17 11:32:45 i have the same problem Oct 17 11:33:11 my n810 cannot fix satellites Oct 17 11:33:32 yeah ... mine takes forever Oct 17 11:33:33 :( Oct 17 11:33:43 and then looses the lock very easily Oct 17 11:33:44 Oh, i'm not the only one. Oct 17 11:33:47 I thought mine were defect. Oct 17 11:34:34 zhaozhou, how is the r61's fan noise? Oct 17 11:35:33 my n800 suddenly crashed and glowed blue. weird. Oct 17 11:35:51 it are belong Oct 17 11:36:14 pupnik810, the only time i can hear the fan is when i hold my hand in front of the fan so no air is blowing out, and it has to be a very warm day, lots of compiling and gaming going on on the computer, and i hold my hand there for about 20 seconds Oct 17 11:36:23 nice Oct 17 11:36:35 looks real good actually Oct 17 11:36:54 ty for the info Oct 17 11:39:20 what specs is your R61? (Thinkpad right?) Oct 17 11:40:51 seems like a whole lot of ppl are having problems with the N810 and GPS Oct 17 11:41:02 zetheroo, Hold on, i'll pastebin some output. Oct 17 11:41:17 wish I knew this before I wasted my money on this thing :( Oct 17 11:43:03 that nv 140 would be frustrating Oct 17 11:43:09 I think Nokia should do a recall once they sort this out ... Oct 17 11:43:19 you didn't check the internet before buying? Oct 17 11:43:25 its useless as a GPS unit Oct 17 11:43:54 works for me usually Oct 17 11:44:03 not useless, depends where you mount it etc Oct 17 11:44:05 zetheroo, Ugh, seems ubuntu has'nt got wgetpaste in its sources. Oct 17 11:44:09 zetheroo: did you install agps-ui? Oct 17 11:44:22 I got it to work once Oct 17 11:44:26 The GPS that is Oct 17 11:44:30 but it's not half as good as a real modern gps device Oct 17 11:44:38 But now it's been in the window for quite awhile, nothing found. Oct 17 11:44:49 I did check online ... but I did not google things like "N810 GPS Problems" or "N810 GPS sucks" .... I thought a Nokia product was something you could trust ... and GPS is not exactly a brand new technology either .. Oct 17 11:44:50 sometimes it gets stuck Oct 17 11:45:12 have to kill the gpsd I think, can't recall Oct 17 11:45:27 With agps things have improved a lot. Oct 17 11:45:48 I installed agps ... but how is that usefull when your on the road? Oct 17 11:45:58 where's the agps last location file stored? Oct 17 11:46:12 and actually it has not helped even when I am connected to the wireless network ... Oct 17 11:46:13 zetheroo: use gsm data? Oct 17 11:46:23 agps? gpsd? Oct 17 11:46:26 whats that? Oct 17 11:46:28 you only need to use agps if you've moved 200km since last using gps Oct 17 11:46:34 Have i been missing something? Oct 17 11:46:49 ha Oct 17 11:46:52 :) Oct 17 11:46:54 I thought for intance maemo mapper is using the device directly from /dev/somethinggps Oct 17 11:46:57 look at this : http://vilunki.wordpress.com/2008/02/04/solution-to-n810-gps-problems/ Oct 17 11:47:04 s/intance/instance/ Oct 17 11:47:04 zhaozhou meant: I thought for instance maemo mapper is using the device directly from /dev/somethinggps Oct 17 11:47:08 i love you, infobot. Oct 17 11:47:09 mavhc: time is also a factor Oct 17 11:47:22 s/love/LOVE/ Oct 17 11:47:23 zhaozhou meant: i LOVE you, infobot. Oct 17 11:47:42 ha Oct 17 11:49:37 that's so retarded Oct 17 11:50:14 what is? Oct 17 11:50:28 the s/ stuff, anyway, /var/lib/gsp/nvd_data Oct 17 11:50:31 Jaffa: ping Oct 17 11:51:14 that's gps, not gsp Oct 17 11:51:51 seems like there is a coding bug in the software ... is that right? Oct 17 11:55:42 noone really knows, or if they do aren't telling Oct 17 11:58:04 how do you get Maemo-mapper to find the GPS hardware? Oct 17 11:58:08 lardman: lunchtime pong Oct 17 11:58:34 I think my gpsdevice gave up Oct 17 11:58:48 now it just sais 'updated 35 days ago' Oct 17 12:00:14 hmm found an r61i for 499... Oct 17 12:01:09 I have an R61 ... Oct 17 12:01:20 :) Oct 17 12:01:34 might be selling it though .. Oct 17 12:02:36 Jaffa: I'm about to go grab some lunch too, was just going to ask if you're interested in pushing other app manager tweaks too; I'd also like to see error reporting implemented Oct 17 12:03:03 lardman: your comment about not rebuilding the whole list for every single minor change reminded me how much that annoys me. Oct 17 12:03:20 Core2Duo T9300 2.5 GHZ 6MB cache/3GB RAM/100GB 7200RPM HDD/DVD-DL-RW/15.4" high resolution LCD/Wifi/BT Oct 17 12:03:28 Given the App Mgr is the gateway to the community for most users, seems we should give it some focus; I'm sure GeneralAntilles will agree :) Oct 17 12:03:31 yeah, we should sit down and do some patching, assuming the code base will survive Oct 17 12:04:33 yeah Oct 17 12:04:47 * Jaffa could do it on Sunday, after rewiring and moving rooms in his house tomorrow Oct 17 12:05:11 Demoting study to make way for Jr#1 so that Jr#2 can have the small room Oct 17 12:05:24 Anyway, too nice to be inside - going for a wander. Oct 17 12:06:06 ok, I might take a look at the code this arvo if I finish my other work Oct 17 12:07:32 anyone know how to get maemo-mapper to see the gps hardware on an N810? Oct 17 12:07:46 zetheroo: select bluetooth and no mac Oct 17 12:07:57 bluetooth? Oct 17 12:08:01 but its internal Oct 17 12:08:05 I know Oct 17 12:08:16 and make sure you've set it up correctly in the control panel applet too Oct 17 12:08:45 setup? Oct 17 12:08:49 what setup? Oct 17 12:08:58 GPS setup ... or BT? Oct 17 12:09:26 :) Oct 17 12:09:34 gps setup, there should be a control panel item Oct 17 12:09:43 make sure you select the internal GPs there Oct 17 12:09:55 then, in maemo mapper, seelct the BT GP and leave out the mac Oct 17 12:10:03 s/GP/GPS Oct 17 12:10:26 does that make sense? Oct 17 12:10:35 * lardman looks for his n810 to give the actual names Oct 17 12:11:13 control panel > gps location for the first bit Oct 17 12:11:30 yes I went there and enabled GPS Oct 17 12:12:04 and in maemo-mapper, in the settings menu, on the first tab named "GPS" select bluetooth for the method and leave the MAC field blank Oct 17 12:12:42 did that too .... maemo-mapper still says Searching for GPS reciever ... and now says Establishing GPS Fix Oct 17 12:12:53 I am going outside to see if it works :) Oct 17 12:12:58 fine, sounds like it's found it then Oct 17 12:35:00 I might be ready to except this device as a good GPS device Oct 17 12:35:02 :) Oct 17 12:35:21 I am in the house now and still fixed Oct 17 12:35:56 how do I get all the GPS features working? ... Oct 17 12:36:06 like ... I suppose I need maps!? Oct 17 12:37:06 is there a way to download a particular route? Oct 17 12:37:09 i dont think you ll get a fix indoors Oct 17 12:37:19 * Jaffa unwalks Oct 17 12:37:32 zetheroo: try clicking on the help button in maemo mapper it is rather well documented Oct 17 12:37:54 I found it a bit drawn out ...:) Oct 17 12:38:18 is there a way to download routes? Oct 17 12:39:06 * lardman heads for some lunch Oct 17 12:39:28 yes there is, but i do not remmeber exactly how, did it once or twice. You have to be connected to the internet for it to wokr Oct 17 12:39:51 well I am ... its downloading maps automatically as I view them ... Oct 17 12:42:44 menu>route>download? Oct 17 12:43:01 I tried that just now ... Oct 17 12:43:17 but dunno about the options Oct 17 12:43:37 I can't just get a GPS map of the country? Oct 17 12:44:31 it downloads bitmap tiles from googlemaps etc Oct 17 12:44:36 and what about voices? Oct 17 12:44:47 there's also the incomplete openmap stuff, I assume that's vectory Oct 17 12:45:29 it uses flite if installed apparently Oct 17 12:45:46 flite Oct 17 12:45:51 from the repos? Oct 17 12:46:02 yes Oct 17 12:46:40 so there are no maps in the repos for download ... I got to view everything I want downloaded ... Oct 17 12:47:15 well, you can tell it to get data for x tiles around a route Oct 17 12:47:28 or get data in a rectangle I think Oct 17 12:48:01 so say I want to travel from city A to city B ... how would I get the maps for that? Oct 17 12:48:25 create a route first Oct 17 12:49:29 flite is not in my repos Oct 17 12:50:04 oh, did you click download sample repositories in the maps menu? Oct 17 12:50:14 yes Oct 17 12:51:18 do you have the extras repo? Oct 17 12:51:34 in Download Route what is the Auto-Update option for? Oct 17 12:51:37 yes I do Oct 17 12:53:40 don't know, mostly I use the built in map program Oct 17 12:54:02 which you had to buy ... right? Oct 17 12:54:47 no, you have to pay for routing and turn by turn instructions Oct 17 12:55:15 ok Oct 17 12:55:26 well I need to get some voices working ... Oct 17 12:57:28 make a playlist with all the voice samples and rock out to such soothing tracks as "turn right in 50 metres" or that old classic "please turn around" Oct 17 12:58:32 how do I install flite? Oct 17 13:03:14 is flite supposed to be in the repos? Oct 17 13:05:53 should be in the extras repo Oct 17 13:06:08 hmm Oct 17 13:06:18 in the application manager, select the "extras repo", and then, if you dont see it, use "apt-get install flite" from a terminal as root Oct 17 13:07:30 how do I get into root? Oct 17 13:08:24 there is more than one way to do this. Taht should be documented 'somewhere' in the wiki . I usually just install openssh to put my own password and be able to ssh as root Oct 17 13:08:46 huh? Oct 17 13:08:56 what about something like sudo ? Oct 17 13:09:19 well, you have to be able to edit the sudoer file first :) Oct 17 13:10:01 hmmm Oct 17 13:12:38 install the get root package Oct 17 13:13:04 its called "get root"? Oct 17 13:13:12 or rootsh Oct 17 13:13:20 how can I tell why hildon-desktop has a load of 30% according to loadapp thingy? Oct 17 13:13:31 rootsh sounds right Oct 17 13:13:35 ~root Oct 17 13:13:36 methinks root is not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account. Oct 17 13:13:42 ~becomeroot Oct 17 13:13:43 it has been said that becomeroot is on Maemo to get root run "sudo gainroot" or dig in maemo.org wiki for proper howto Oct 17 13:13:51 Oh FFS Oct 17 13:14:26 melmoth/zetheroo: http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access Oct 17 13:14:37 infobot: becomeroot is http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access Oct 17 13:14:37 ...but becomeroot is already something else... Oct 17 13:14:43 infobot: forget becomeroot Oct 17 13:14:44 Jaffa: i forgot becomeroot Oct 17 13:14:45 infobot: becomeroot is http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access Oct 17 13:15:36 Man, that bot is sweet. Oct 17 13:16:28 ok I installed rootsh Oct 17 13:16:38 now what? Oct 17 13:17:15 What do you want to do? The wiki says that to get a root prompt, you can type `sudo gainroot' or `root' for short. Oct 17 13:17:29 ok Oct 17 13:18:34 package flite has no installation candidate Oct 17 13:19:27 ? Oct 17 13:20:14 zetheroo: flite presumably isn't in Extras. Oct 17 13:20:46 ok... now what? Oct 17 13:22:03 try a binary of another repo (it used to be there)...or recompile it for diablo if it s not working Oct 17 13:22:22 :-@ Oct 17 13:38:42 apt-get remove tooth: apt-get error,will not remove tooth Oct 17 13:39:34 hi all Oct 17 13:39:52 hiya andy Oct 17 13:55:50 Jaffa: Thanks for the push on jalimo-info ;) Oct 17 13:56:46 Jaffa: I wonder if we can use mudbuilder to create a proper 'source' package? Oct 17 14:10:04 X-Fade: interesting question. Don't know :-/ Oct 17 14:10:20 Jaffa: Plugin ;) Oct 17 14:18:22 is maemo.org down again Oct 17 14:18:43 penguinbait: No? Oct 17 14:19:05 it is for me Oct 17 14:19:14 I can get everywhere but there? Oct 17 14:19:19 Stskeeps, johnx, which is the recommended nit-env ? Oct 17 14:19:27 penguinbait: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ Oct 17 14:19:31 http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/maemo.org Oct 17 14:21:17 you can open maemo.org in a browser? and it loads? Oct 17 14:21:26 penguinbait: Yes. Oct 17 14:21:54 I opened it in IE and it never opens, I fired up firefox and it loads Oct 17 14:21:59 nvrming Oct 17 14:22:05 nevermind Oct 17 14:22:29 Are they boycotting windows or is it just me? Oct 17 14:23:20 penguinbait: It really is just you. Loads fine in my IE6. Oct 17 14:23:32 I am running IE7 Oct 17 14:23:43 penguinbait: IE7 too. Oct 17 14:23:49 oh well, firefox is working Oct 17 14:23:58 weird Oct 17 14:24:12 penguinbait: Spyware? :) Oct 17 14:24:26 no thanks :) Oct 17 14:24:37 was that an offer ? Oct 17 14:24:42 suihkulokki: -lxde is the most developed Oct 17 14:25:00 That is always my firts thought when a site doesn't work in IE. Hijacked browser;) Oct 17 14:26:12 No hijackers here, more than likely some new vista feature to keep me from Linux related sites :) Oct 17 14:44:08 hi Oct 17 15:07:23 qwerty12: bored? Oct 17 15:07:57 Stskeeps: Lol, yeah :) Oct 17 15:08:25 http://packages.debian.org/lenny/dctrl-tools <- anything you feel like building? Oct 17 15:08:32 it's for debtree Oct 17 15:08:52 going to try to make a tool for people to realize what closed source things they depend on in their open apps Oct 17 15:09:16 You have a sbox don't you? (Though, I can put out an compile if you wish) Oct 17 15:09:24 :P Oct 17 15:09:27 no, i don't :P it broke constantly while building Oct 17 15:09:37 lol Oct 17 15:09:44 er, while dling i mean Oct 17 15:11:09 else i would have done it myself :P Oct 17 15:12:48 I just kicked my stylus and have no idea where it went :P Oct 17 15:12:51 Stskeeps: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/dctrl-tools_2.13.0_armel.deb Oct 17 15:13:00 ta Oct 17 15:13:11 i've lost a stylus somewhere in my gfs car i thin Oct 17 15:13:12 k Oct 17 15:15:27 hehe, I lost one in Slough so if anyone needs a new stylus and is hating nokia for not providing an easy way to get one... Oct 17 15:16:58 tie it to tablet with a rope Oct 17 15:17:41 qwerty12: It seems some shops sell them: http://www.mobilesupplies.nl/nokia-n810-stylus-3pcs-p-7409.html Oct 17 15:18:14 X-Fade: Cool. I wonder if they sell N800 ones :) Oct 17 15:18:29 http://www.mobilesupplies.nl/nokia-n800-internet-tablet-stylus-p-7386.html Oct 17 15:19:01 A bit expensive, but still ;) Oct 17 15:20:08 ondemand governor rocks? Oct 17 15:20:41 Ah, they sell n810 styluses! (stylii?) Oct 17 15:22:06 http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/main/deblet-boot-basics/etc/init.d/boot-basics Oct 17 15:22:16 what the hell is that magic? Oct 17 15:22:33 slonopotamus: similar stuff maemo does Oct 17 15:23:01 the last part is to avoid udev fuckiness. for some reason udev locks the mmc block devices Oct 17 15:23:05 so fsck can't happen Oct 17 15:23:28 why you don't want fsck? Oct 17 15:24:05 i do want it, which is why it's in boot-basics, as past udev where normal fsck happens, it fails horridly Oct 17 15:24:09 it's a really weird bug Oct 17 15:24:30 basically after udev runs, fsck can't access the block device exclusively Oct 17 15:24:55 to fix any errors Oct 17 15:25:20 oh. misread. Oct 17 15:25:29 slonopotamus: the _LINUXRC stuff is because there's people who doesn't use my bootmenu patches supporting linuxrc :P Oct 17 15:25:38 and hence the environment is .. abnormal Oct 17 15:25:40 Stskeeps, and where is display initializaton? Oct 17 15:26:08 slonopotamus: omap-fb-console and omap-fb-tools Oct 17 15:26:34 (boottype stuff in omap-fb-console is because of our rescue menu thing) Oct 17 15:28:17 thx, exploring Oct 17 15:28:17 and kernel-diablo-modules-fbcon? Oct 17 15:29:49 slonopotamus: modules built for the diablo kernel containing framebuffer modules Oct 17 15:29:54 just extract the from the deb Oct 17 15:32:38 # ugly hacks follow Oct 17 15:32:39 ;) Oct 17 15:32:39 who writes /tmp/.bootmode? Oct 17 15:32:49 ahha, ahha... i have to confiscate your svn ;) many useful tricks are there Oct 17 15:33:41 kernel-diablo-modules-fbcon is a very smart packagge ;) Oct 17 15:33:53 slonopotamus: deblet-rescue-menu Oct 17 15:34:16 ( see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h24f2YjzWBE ) Oct 17 15:34:20 isn't that module available in initfs? Oct 17 15:34:41 which? Oct 17 15:34:47 fbcon? no, not afai Oct 17 15:34:48 k Oct 17 15:34:53 no. Oct 17 15:35:17 can't watch now, i'm on gprs Oct 17 15:35:20 ah Oct 17 15:35:36 Jaffa: Oct 17 15:35:39 ~rootsh Oct 17 15:35:40 it has been said that rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/ Oct 17 15:35:42 ~root-access Oct 17 15:35:42 hmm... root-access is http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access Oct 17 15:36:04 lardman|gone, Jaffa: Hell yes at patching h-a-m! . . . and "finally!" ;) Oct 17 15:36:21 GeneralAntilles: Fennec alpha has been released. Can you ping them again? Oct 17 15:36:31 There's a bug Oct 17 15:36:36 GeneralAntilles: And they only provide a chinook version.. blergh ;) Oct 17 15:36:38 I can only assume they're working on it. Oct 17 15:37:05 I'll harass dougt whenever he pops in. Oct 17 15:37:10 X-Fade: we test on diablo as well Oct 17 15:37:44 mfinkle: We try to get you guys to upload to extras(-devel) ;) Oct 17 15:38:28 X-Fade: I think we're waiting until we get closer to beta Oct 17 15:38:47 http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=457307 Oct 17 15:38:58 Extras-devel is perfect for alpha releases. Oct 17 15:39:13 strange, strange... Oct 17 15:39:36 mfinkle: I guess it won't build on the first go, so we might need some time to get things working ;) Oct 17 15:39:39 qwerty12, thanks for the PuTTY write up! Oct 17 15:39:54 mfinkle: So the sooner, the better.. Oct 17 15:40:03 slonopotamus: how's it going with base compilation? Oct 17 15:41:14 Stskeeps, troubles with python, didn't solve yet. not going to crosscompile perl, will build natively after booting Oct 17 15:41:49 *nod* Oct 17 15:41:58 python isn't very crosscompile-friendly Oct 17 15:42:54 yep. but no python = no portage Oct 17 15:43:09 * GeneralAntilles bangs head on desk at people adding random shit to the wiki because they broke their install in some convoluted way. Oct 17 15:43:31 "Red Pill as a way of life" articles, or? Oct 17 15:43:32 :P Oct 17 15:43:45 Some oddness somebody just added to Oct 17 15:43:46 ~flashing Oct 17 15:43:47 i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 17 15:43:53 ;) Oct 17 15:44:02 * GeneralAntilles hates having to clean this shit up. Oct 17 15:44:41 Stskeeps, deblet-omap-fb-splash - funky boot image? Oct 17 15:46:19 GeneralAntilles: No problems :). I think it may need some cleaning but I'm a wiki noob :) Oct 17 15:46:42 That will be my excuse :P Oct 17 15:47:30 GeneralAntilles: that change to ~flashing came about from a thread I spotted on ITT earlier Oct 17 15:47:37 Yes, I know. Oct 17 15:47:48 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24205&page=5 Oct 17 15:47:53 Somebody want to set him straight? Oct 17 15:47:58 I'm tired of trying. Oct 17 15:51:59 If you've got packages that conflict with osv, and you try to reinstall osv with apt-get, it'll tell you which packages need to be downgraded/removed, right? Oct 17 15:52:20 slonopotamus: funky splash cos console is boring Oct 17 15:52:21 :P Oct 17 15:52:28 also it gives a better reflection of time passed Oct 17 15:53:05 * qwerty12 keeps console enabled on my computer. It reminds me that I'm booting into Linux, not windows :P Oct 17 15:54:46 Does emjayes' rotation still conflict with osv? Oct 17 15:59:49 http://tonikitoo.blogspot.com/2008/10/new-wave-of-mozilla-coming-fennec.html should probably specify that the Mac version is only for x86. . . . Oct 17 16:06:51 slonopotamus, bye Oct 17 16:07:10 qwerty12: qwerty12 hi Oct 17 16:08:45 slonopotamus, disconnect! Oct 17 16:08:55 :( Oct 17 16:11:10 wheee Oct 17 16:14:54 http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/main/xsession-gtkstylus/Makefile Oct 17 16:15:03 semi-stupid package Oct 17 16:15:13 why not just mkdir -p ${DESTDIR}/./etc/X11/Xsession.d Oct 17 16:15:13 ? Oct 17 16:15:20 because i wrote it using a half-baked shell script Oct 17 16:15:31 i did 60+ raw debian packages to real buildable packages Oct 17 16:15:36 i wasn't going to do it in hand Oct 17 16:15:37 :P Oct 17 16:15:55 ;) Oct 17 16:15:59 cheater Oct 17 16:16:12 computer scientist Oct 17 16:16:20 do it three times, and then write a tool for it Oct 17 16:16:20 :P Oct 17 16:17:28 so... how many tools you wrote? ;) Oct 17 16:18:02 you can't write fourth ;) Oct 17 16:18:13 Robot101: ping Oct 17 16:18:24 i have a bunch of silly tools laying about Oct 17 16:18:24 :P Oct 17 16:18:33 mikhailz: hey, it's whodat who was having problems, but I just suggested extra-auth-{user,password} to him in /msg Oct 17 16:18:45 right Oct 17 16:19:40 whodat: I think extra-auth-password still maps to that password field in the advanced account settings for SIP Oct 17 16:22:07 but the whole concept of passing auth credentials in CM parameters is bonghits Oct 17 16:25:00 mikhailz: agreed Oct 17 16:29:10 anyone know of a partition program for maemo Oct 17 16:29:16 cfdisk :P Oct 17 16:29:44 sfdisk *grin* Oct 17 16:29:52 Stskeeps - I looked for that..and sfdisk, can't find a package to install Oct 17 16:33:54 hi! Oct 17 16:34:15 Hrm, would cfdisk have value being in extras? Oct 17 16:34:21 hi pupnik Oct 17 16:34:23 yes! Oct 17 16:34:58 qwerty12: yeah, probably, but it's a bitch compili' Oct 17 16:35:11 Stskeeps: I've done it before :) Oct 17 16:36:14 hi qwerty12 Oct 17 16:36:29 the ibm x300 looks nice Oct 17 16:36:55 lappy? Oct 17 16:37:50 thinkpads aren't technically ibm, that's why I ask :) Oct 17 16:38:37 qwerty12 - where can I find cfdisk? A search on google hasn't turned up anything Oct 17 16:39:29 cyrus__: stskeeps has a deb somewhere. If not, I have a deb somewhere... Oct 17 16:39:53 can you point me to a link please and thank you Oct 17 16:40:19 http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/export/201/dependancies/cfdisk.deb Oct 17 16:40:25 ty Oct 17 16:46:57 hi Oct 17 16:48:04 hi all Oct 17 16:48:19 so i've been an XP user forever Oct 17 16:48:24 and just got this tablet Oct 17 16:48:32 don't know much about linux Oct 17 16:48:34 no, you can't run windows mobile on it ;p Oct 17 16:48:50 but i've been trying to install KDE Oct 17 16:49:04 don't want XP on it, lol Oct 17 16:49:58 seems to be more than one way to install Oct 17 16:50:12 yup, penguinbait's KDE, deblet, debian chroot Oct 17 16:50:28 so, for a complete noob, a lot of this stff is greek Oct 17 16:50:44 i was wanting to try KDE out Oct 17 16:50:52 but keep maemo the way it is Oct 17 16:51:02 i have a 4 GB card Oct 17 16:51:09 and the N810 Oct 17 16:51:14 well, you can always reflash maemo back Oct 17 16:51:22 when you've messed it up with penguinbait's KDE Oct 17 16:51:48 might be best to dual boot a normal pc to get the hang on kde Oct 17 16:51:54 and just a backup to restore it? Oct 17 16:51:55 s/on/of Oct 17 16:52:02 * GeneralAntilles doesn't understand how anybody can use KDE on the tablets. Oct 17 16:52:17 GeneralAntilles: agreed Oct 17 16:52:18 generalantilles me either Oct 17 16:52:19 thought about doing the duel boot with my old lappy Oct 17 16:52:42 is KDE not good for the tablet, then? Oct 17 16:52:51 no Oct 17 16:52:55 oh Oct 17 16:53:05 it's... usable, with the stylus Oct 17 16:53:06 it's resource intensive, designed for PCs Oct 17 16:53:13 * summatusmentis prefers fingers Oct 17 16:53:20 designed for larger screens for the most part, etc. Oct 17 16:53:22 so, like anybody that gets a new toy, i'm trying to see what it can do Oct 17 16:53:32 oh, ok Oct 17 16:53:34 * qwerty12 likes a desktop environment that doesn't drive watchdog crazy :) Oct 17 16:53:53 I have seen one guy using KDE4 on his UMC Oct 17 16:54:11 looks fine, esp. counting that he managed to get 3D running in Ubuntu (via 3D accelerator) Oct 17 16:54:57 so do most people just use maemo on the tablet? Oct 17 16:55:25 maemo is great Oct 17 16:55:43 conventional desktops aren't designed for such small screens Oct 17 16:56:02 the concept of overlapping windows is horrible Oct 17 16:56:07 adrenal_809: yes, but don't let that disuade you from testing other things; however get a feel for KDE on a desktop machine first so you can see if you want to try it Oct 17 16:56:23 i see Oct 17 16:56:28 adrenal_809: you could get one of those CDs which boots to Linux, what are they called? Oct 17 16:56:36 live cd Oct 17 16:56:50 thanks qwerty12, been a long week Oct 17 16:57:01 i was thinking of puttin ubuntu on my old lappy Oct 17 16:57:04 evening lardman \o Oct 17 16:57:04 knoppix, the kubuntu install cd afaik can run in a live cd Oct 17 16:57:12 whos on jaiku Oct 17 16:57:14 hi lcuk Oct 17 16:57:18 lardman: heh, for me, it's been fast :) Oct 17 16:57:24 * aquatix installs liqbase 0.0.8 Oct 17 16:57:29 \o/ Oct 17 16:57:43 qwerty12: for me long and busy (but productive), brain is tired now Oct 17 16:57:47 for a cup of awesomeness :) Oct 17 16:58:02 0.0.9 should include bugfixes, 0.1 *should* include the icons Oct 17 16:58:08 and be in extras Oct 17 16:58:08 ghehe Oct 17 16:58:12 nice Oct 17 16:58:21 so it'll even be automagically updated? Oct 17 16:58:24 lardman: I'll pretend to say the same about my week... :P :) Oct 17 16:58:41 aquatix, give it a chance, its gotta go through devel and promotion Oct 17 16:58:46 i dont even know how to use pgp yet Oct 17 16:58:48 lcuk: great :) Oct 17 16:58:50 * qwerty12 sees how parted runs on the tablet Oct 17 16:59:19 * lcuk might change the license to "shout it from the rooftops if its good" Oct 17 16:59:33 ooops, mashin potatoes, brb Oct 17 16:59:50 * aquatix should get some supper too Oct 17 17:00:30 well, thanks for the info on KDE. i'm not going to dork around with trying to put it on m n810 Oct 17 17:01:22 thanks all Oct 17 17:01:23 bye Oct 17 17:02:39 qwerty12: command line is okay, gparted not so much Oct 17 17:03:00 Stskeeps: yeah, just tried parted on my elcheapo 1gb, worked nicely Oct 17 17:06:03 * Stskeeps commits more sane wifi powersave Oct 17 17:06:17 based on when the wifi is connected or not, using dbus Oct 17 17:06:19 :P Oct 17 17:34:10 * lcuk tosses a coin, heads i code, tails i lounge around, get drunk, then code. Oct 17 17:35:45 * qwerty12 now knows how screen corruption bug creeped in... :P Oct 17 17:36:08 heh, thats not a bug of my doing though Oct 17 17:36:15 N1 does not experience it Oct 17 17:36:21 i have no way of reproducing on it Oct 17 17:36:43 lcuk: i'm in. i have beer Oct 17 17:36:43 :P Oct 17 17:36:43 but on N2 i get it like you after a reboot Oct 17 17:37:00 excellent Stskeeps Oct 17 17:37:07 Heh, I'm not so bothered about the screen corruption :). I can only get it to show once and the loading times are so fast, it's no bother for me to quit and load it again Oct 17 17:37:30 exactly - its how applications should be Oct 17 17:37:37 * Stskeeps ponders how he could shoehorn suspend to ram into deblet Oct 17 17:37:54 thats why i never bothered to hildonize it - the ONLY time it was ever an issue was if you had drawn a mona lisa type sketch and the screen blanked Oct 17 17:38:06 grr, how can uuid-dev NOT be in the chinook sdk repo Oct 17 17:38:35 chinook is old Oct 17 17:38:55 its not *that* old though, its still os2008 Oct 17 17:39:15 I know, I use diablo here. But I'm sending parted to the autobuilder. I think it makes sense if people using a cloned os or something can use parted in chinook or diablo Oct 17 17:39:48 *g* Oct 17 17:39:49 okay Oct 17 17:40:41 * lcuk can't stop smiling at maemo.org Oct 17 17:41:04 lcuk hm why? Oct 17 17:41:10 go and see :) Oct 17 17:41:16 it's so fast now? Oct 17 17:41:35 liqbase? Oct 17 17:41:37 its not the speed, its the content Oct 17 17:41:39 yeah Oct 17 17:41:50 ah right Oct 17 17:41:57 there is your name Oct 17 17:42:26 what on -earth- is /sys/devices/platform/dsp/state? Oct 17 17:42:36 maybe the best thing about .nl is all the opem wlans Oct 17 17:42:51 lcuk ah this cool app Oct 17 17:42:56 I saw it before Oct 17 17:43:11 but its installable now :) Oct 17 17:43:14 but only the text stuff Oct 17 17:43:33 no, everything is there - more than the old original video shows Oct 17 17:44:02 i dreamt about a fast psx emu last night :/ Oct 17 17:44:11 sketching graffiti camera maps physics books stars all wrapped up in a touch friendly ui with nice fast kinetics and stuff :) Oct 17 17:44:42 lol pupnik810 ive still got your screen resolutions in there Oct 17 17:44:48 where are you now Oct 17 17:45:18 lcuk hm did you use any widget/grafic libraries like qt or gtk? Oct 17 17:45:28 in a carribean bar ;) Oct 17 17:45:36 pupnik810, still in amsterdam? Oct 17 17:46:05 woglinde, no - its all hand crafted to run smoothly and show the n8x0 in its best light :) Oct 17 17:46:19 lcuk all in assembler then? Oct 17 17:46:27 heh, not quite - its c Oct 17 17:46:33 *g* okay Oct 17 17:46:37 zap: google tells me you know something about /sys/devices/platform/dsp/state? Oct 17 17:46:45 though im not afraid of arm asm :) its like 68k so i feel at home Oct 17 17:47:02 yeah Oct 17 17:47:07 cool Oct 17 17:47:27 heh pupnik810 then i know the kind of bar you are in :D Oct 17 17:47:36 but i cant see you cos its cloudy Oct 17 17:48:07 * qwerty12 now knows I am destined to go to Amsterdam Oct 17 17:48:11 lol Oct 17 17:48:12 lcuk are the source available? Oct 17 17:48:15 red light district, qwerty12? Oct 17 17:48:25 Stskeeps: yer, but to get high Oct 17 17:48:38 qwerty12, when i went to leeenuxtag i was stuck in amsterdam airport for 2 hours - i had face pressed against window drooling Oct 17 17:48:55 if you like biking, do a few days on bike Oct 17 17:49:04 woglinde, in the maemo garage :) l Oct 17 17:49:07 lcuk: lol Oct 17 17:49:11 lcuk okay thanks Oct 17 17:49:24 project name: liqbase Oct 17 17:49:28 project coolness: high Oct 17 17:49:58 WOAH. My exaggeration meter just blew up Oct 17 17:50:01 :P Oct 17 17:50:01 * pupnik810 is not convinced :0 Oct 17 17:50:36 :O pupnik, you above all others should know how far ive come with this Oct 17 17:52:12 lcuk hm uh I wonder why you checked in the debian generated files too Oct 17 17:52:20 which? Oct 17 17:52:35 build-stamp configure-stamp Oct 17 17:52:37 no i have been avoiding liqbase, dunno what's good about it. Oct 17 17:53:14 but i will read soon when you have nice webpage :) Oct 17 17:54:18 woglinde, does it matter? but its accidental anyway - ive never used svn or anything Oct 17 17:54:27 liqbase.net Oct 17 17:54:32 its nice enough and gives features Oct 17 17:54:52 the n810 is the best thing next to a camera to pocket while bikihng Oct 17 17:55:13 but in germany it nsux cause no open wlans Oct 17 17:55:26 lcuk its not this bad Oct 17 17:55:50 okay I have to go Oct 17 17:55:51 bye Oct 17 17:55:54 cya Oct 17 17:58:07 What? Oct 17 17:58:17 Still unstyled? Oct 17 17:59:01 ? Oct 17 17:59:06 liqbase.net Oct 17 17:59:16 lcuk's not using the pretty design I put together for him. :( Oct 17 18:00:51 i only just got copy a couple of days ago GeneralAntilles :'( Oct 17 18:00:55 ill rectify right away Oct 17 18:01:11 * lcuk bows down before lord general emporer antilles and begs mercy Oct 17 18:01:18 heh Oct 17 18:01:26 Kiss the ring! Oct 17 18:01:32 wipe your ass first Oct 17 18:01:52 Nasty bastard. . . . Oct 17 18:01:53 i must bike ... darkness falls Oct 17 18:01:57 * lcuk can hear the collective groan around the world Oct 17 18:02:06 wish y'all a spiffy evening... Oct 17 18:02:06 k pupnik810 have fun Oct 17 18:02:14 :) Oct 17 18:02:29 pupnik810, have a good journey :) Oct 17 18:02:39 lcuk, a grin here :p Oct 17 18:02:41 Bye, pupnik810. Oct 17 18:02:41 GeneralAntilles, now ive got a few sections it makes sense to do it Oct 17 18:02:51 ie actual content Oct 17 18:03:06 before yesterday it just had a youtube link and a .deb link Oct 17 18:05:04 ok guys Oct 17 18:05:14 do you have some nice planning app, like GNOME's planner? Oct 17 18:05:21 but w/o GNOME :) Oct 17 18:05:29 Stskeeps: dsp state? Oct 17 18:05:43 Stskeeps: says "run" when the dsp is running Oct 17 18:06:29 lardman: mmk, says "0" for me and i've seen multimedia echo 2 to it as well Oct 17 18:06:49 hmm Oct 17 18:07:27 I'd guess a powersaving state, but I don't know Oct 17 18:07:45 i'm just curious cos i'm trying to find sources of power consumption, - and ways to detect if dsp is running so we can do safe suspend to ram :P Oct 17 18:08:05 Stskeeps: it will be in the kernel source though Oct 17 18:08:11 mm, should look i guess Oct 17 18:08:23 need,

IM, quick! Oct 17 18:08:24 yeah, or remind me later on and I'll take a look for you Oct 17 18:08:32 working one Oct 17 18:08:47 where P doesn't mean personal Oct 17 18:08:57 and certainly does mean easy to sync Oct 17 18:11:56 Stskeeps, clearly these questions can only be answered by you. :P http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=234348 Oct 17 18:14:00 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=330884 <- and you thought maemo bugzilla bugs were bad Oct 17 18:15:09 GeneralAntilles: .. i need a PR guy Oct 17 18:15:20 Stskeeps, ever seen 472370 on the gnome bugzilla? Oct 17 18:15:54 nop Oct 17 18:16:47 the gnome wankers removed but it was about this guy reporting a crash with porn movies with some really fucked up names Oct 17 18:16:47 Apparently deleted. Oct 17 18:16:52 Ah Oct 17 18:19:04 * GeneralAntilles is out of mayonnaise. :( Oct 17 18:19:24 i hope you have a backup supply of baconnaise though Oct 17 18:20:51 Out of bacon, too. :( Oct 17 18:21:17 * Stskeeps was planning to make burgers but seemingily had moldy bread Oct 17 18:21:18 :( Oct 17 18:21:19 GeneralAntilles: No BLT? :) Oct 17 18:21:20 :( tis a sad sad day indeed Oct 17 18:21:36 Stskeeps, that's the worst! Oct 17 18:21:37 i made burgers last night Oct 17 18:21:47 Fresh bread is so much better, but it just doesn't last. Oct 17 18:22:12 hiya X-Fade :P you never answered about the multitouch thing Oct 17 18:22:40 lcuk: Well, no you know how it goes. Got distracted. Oct 17 18:22:49 lcuk: But did read your new website :) Oct 17 18:22:58 yeah i know that one, ohlook a butterfly Oct 17 18:23:09 \o/ Oct 17 18:23:09 lcuk: And I think you get the idea :) Oct 17 18:23:47 GeneralAntilles: bless you for the comment on tools repository Oct 17 18:24:15 I'd actually like to see some more of the stuff from the SDK repo moved into Extras Oct 17 18:24:19 build-essentials etc Oct 17 18:24:21 should be in extras-devel soon :) Oct 17 18:24:35 Or maybe they could just remove coreutils from the SDK repo so it doesn't nuke the tablet. Oct 17 18:24:41 GeneralAntilles: stable/unstable (extras, extras-devel) would be so much better :P Oct 17 18:24:45 like debian Oct 17 18:25:06 GeneralAntilles: Juha is kaltsi here, I think ;) Oct 17 18:25:06 GeneralAntilles, scratchbox uses coreutills :/ Oct 17 18:25:18 hi Oct 17 18:25:31 But then again, there are a lot of Juhas in Finland. Oct 17 18:25:35 Hehe Oct 17 18:25:44 qwerty12_N800: could always Provides: coreutils for busybox.. but dunnio Oct 17 18:25:49 <|rt|> hey guys I got a n810 earlier this week and I'm concerned that the directional pad doesn't work...which apps use the directional pad so that I can test it? Oct 17 18:26:09 |rt|, anything with a text box Oct 17 18:26:10 notes app Oct 17 18:26:18 The discussion on Tools is taking place on -developers if anybody wants to jump in. Oct 17 18:26:30 <|rt|> lcuk: ok it should scroll the text boxes? Oct 17 18:26:32 Juha, Tero, Eero, I know multiples of those names ;) Oct 17 18:26:45 rt - it should do what cursor keys do in a normal desktop ap Oct 17 18:26:47 p Oct 17 18:26:50 Stskeeps, eww, busybox in sbox. Actually, busybox does provide coreutills but also conflicts with it Oct 17 18:27:01 ahhhhh - mental note: add cursor key support to the one textbox in liqbase Oct 17 18:27:32 qwerty12_N800: then again, if sb is supposed to be SDK for tablet, why shouldn't it be /bin/sh? Oct 17 18:27:34 <|rt|> lcuk: yeah it's not moving the cursor Oct 17 18:27:53 Ok, fennec looks cool. But performance is way, way, way off. Oct 17 18:27:59 parted is in diablo extras-devel, sfdisk haters rejoice Oct 17 18:28:09 <|rt|> lcuk: can i cat the device in the xterm to see if it's doing anything Oct 17 18:28:10 now for gparted, qwerty12_N800 Oct 17 18:28:11 :P Oct 17 18:28:26 |rt|, you oculd find and download xev and see whats goin on Oct 17 18:28:35 if you have diddled with your keymap you couldv screwed it up Oct 17 18:28:54 Stskeeps, nah, i aint a developer :p Oct 17 18:29:06 X-Fade, lots of alpha browsers at the moment, all waiting for a performance boost Oct 17 18:29:12 <|rt|> lcuk: I haven't done anything at a low level with it yet other than ssh into it and install vim and look around Oct 17 18:29:37 lcuk: Well, this one needs it the most ;) Oct 17 18:29:46 lcuk: Really, slideshow. Oct 17 18:29:48 Hi, how can I read .lit files on maemo? Oct 17 18:29:50 |rt|, im really not the best person to talk to about internals Oct 17 18:29:56 X-Fade, awww boo Oct 17 18:29:57 lcuk: But it has some cool concepts. Oct 17 18:30:08 jeward, grab convertlit and use fbreader Oct 17 18:30:09 <|rt|> lcuk: well I appreciate your help Oct 17 18:30:48 jeward, convertlit is available for tablet somewhere + a quick gui Oct 17 18:30:55 |rt|, xev should however tell you if the low level system is detecting keypresses, hope its not entirely broke for you Oct 17 18:31:11 At least MicroB is getting performance boosts with each update. Oct 17 18:31:43 yeah GeneralAntilles its much nicer now Oct 17 18:32:07 <|rt|> lcuk: well if it is i can rma it at TigerDirect where I bought it Oct 17 18:32:08 qwerty12_N800: apt-get able? Oct 17 18:32:19 * qwerty12_N800 needs to set up hosts + usercontent.css Oct 17 18:32:24 fair enough rt Oct 17 18:32:32 jeward, don't think so Oct 17 18:32:40 Oh, thanks, qwerty12_N800, that reminds me. Oct 17 18:32:44 * GeneralAntilles needs to too. Oct 17 18:32:44 <|rt|> lcuk: if you ssh in as root can run cat /dev/input/mice and then use the directional does it spit out anything at you? Oct 17 18:32:50 qwerty12_N800, make a .deb for that yet? :P Oct 17 18:33:12 <|rt|> lcuk: or does that show up as the up, down, left, right arrow on the keyboard...in which case I'll need to use xev Oct 17 18:33:44 GeneralAntilles, No :p. i suck at packaging :p. though it does sound like an interesting idea... Oct 17 18:33:48 god knows i havent got the system runnin Oct 17 18:33:52 and im on downtime Oct 17 18:34:00 Make css-adblocking and hosts-adblocking Oct 17 18:34:03 CSS should be easy Oct 17 18:34:03 * lcuk is officially havin a rest Oct 17 18:34:12 just add or remove one text file. Oct 17 18:34:42 i tihnk thats the first time ive said stuff like that Oct 17 18:35:07 * GeneralAntilles throws TODOs at lcuk. Oct 17 18:35:25 <|rt|> lcuk: thanks for you help...I'll contact nokia's support and work with them to see if it's indeed a problem with the directional Oct 17 18:35:27 * lcuk throws WORKSFORME back at you Oct 17 18:36:47 * GeneralAntilles spams REOPENEDs at lcuk. Oct 17 18:38:02 * lcuk locks out GeneralAntilles, takes away his hammer, deletes his acocunts, and signs him up for the nokia knitting club Oct 17 18:39:02 converlit is apt-get able, by the way. Oct 17 18:40:02 * Stskeeps ponders to take a crack at getting fedora arm on tablet Oct 17 18:40:22 you would be better gettin fedora hat to sit on the tablet Oct 17 18:40:32 especially if you use the stand Oct 17 18:40:34 Stskeeps, to what end? Oct 17 18:40:43 How do I enter a '|' in an xterm again? I forget. Oct 17 18:40:46 GeneralAntilles: i'm bored and i have a lot of beer. Oct 17 18:40:49 Focus on making Deblet more awesome instead. :P Oct 17 18:40:55 GeneralAntilles: mm Oct 17 18:45:25 * Stskeeps is just unsure what direction to go in really Oct 17 18:46:47 I still want a Hildon DE. Oct 17 18:47:16 the difficulity is however what hildon is, is it hildon with the GTK extensions or not :) Oct 17 18:48:09 Stskeeps, how large is your project Oct 17 18:48:21 lcuk: not big at all Oct 17 18:48:39 if you mean in terms of people Oct 17 18:48:42 and the barrier of entry, could i build it on my device or do i need a full devkit Oct 17 18:48:59 i meant MB capacity Oct 17 18:49:34 oh, you can either build packages inside deblet like you would on a debian machine (apt-get install build-essentials) or on a qemu arm emulator Oct 17 18:50:11 we don't have a SDK, and if we were to have one, it would probably be a trick to distcc from tablet/emulator to a local toolchain on a desktop Oct 17 18:50:18 how large is deblet install version? Oct 17 18:50:30 661m is my nit-env-lxde atm Oct 17 18:50:39 * lcuk coughs Oct 17 18:50:56 but that's with iceweasel, midori, synaptic Oct 17 18:50:56 etc Oct 17 18:51:20 lemme see what docpurge and localepurge does Oct 17 18:51:35 is it possible to make a really minimal version that people could sit a selection of WM ontop of? Oct 17 18:51:38 <|rt|> lcuk: I feel dumb now...i just realized that i wasn't pressing on the directional button hard enough Oct 17 18:51:42 <|rt|> :) Oct 17 18:51:48 heh Oct 17 18:51:55 lcuk: yeah, nit-env-x and build a package on top Oct 17 18:52:05 we have different levels Oct 17 18:52:21 qwerty12_N800, remove the midgard_article template from the top of the NFS article whenever you feel like it doesn't suck. Oct 17 18:52:30 Stskeeps, im thinking cos theres plenty of x11 window managers around and would want core minimal system Oct 17 18:52:57 lcuk: yeah, - and lxde is actually lightweight in comparison to what you get :P Oct 17 18:53:03 a hildon env would be smaller, obviously Oct 17 18:53:06 GeneralAntilles, sure, i'll try and clean it some more sometime, thanks Oct 17 18:53:18 No, thank you! :D Oct 17 18:53:45 :) Oct 17 19:02:09 <|rt|> what screen protectors does everyone recommend for the n810? Oct 17 19:02:38 big thick ones Oct 17 19:02:40 |rt|: none? Oct 17 19:03:00 hehe Oct 17 19:03:03 <|rt|> flo_lap: you don't scratch your screen with the stylus? Oct 17 19:03:06 qwerty12_N800: I have convertlit, but I don't understand how to make something FBReader will understand with it. Oct 17 19:04:25 |rt|, you only scratch your screen with stylus if you have grit or dirt on the screen or stylus to scratch it with Oct 17 19:04:33 dont let grubby fingers touch it if you are scared Oct 17 19:04:44 * qwerty12_N800 is convinced I don't need one after my n800 came out fine after being smacked by a wall and hitting the concrete floor Oct 17 19:04:46 and cleanse occasionally with wd40 or something ;) Oct 17 19:04:59 jeward, hmm, give me a sec Oct 17 19:05:03 note: dont take my advice as gospel Oct 17 19:05:19 * lcuk has worn his screen out Oct 17 19:05:21 |rt|: no, i prefer to keep my screens clean and therefore i do not scratch these. Oct 17 19:05:31 hiya flo_lap Oct 17 19:05:46 lcuk: your screen doesn't count ;) Oct 17 19:05:54 <|rt|> heh Oct 17 19:05:58 heh, i use mine a bit more than most Oct 17 19:06:22 got my n810 today Oct 17 19:06:45 flo_lap, i saw someone on the U in berlin - she got out an old dell pda - it had specific scratches in the palces she used it - she mustv played solitaire every day on the train for years Oct 17 19:06:47 i have heard the screen is pressure sensitive...how can i read the pressure of the stylus in a c program? Oct 17 19:06:55 libXSP Oct 17 19:07:05 lcuk: hehe Oct 17 19:07:29 jagernot, XSPSetTSRawMode(dpy, True); Oct 17 19:07:37 follow that keyword and find all you need Oct 17 19:07:44 qwerty12_N800: I run it on a .lit file and specify output, but FBReader shows it as empty. Oct 17 19:07:50 its uncalibrated raw pressure info Oct 17 19:07:54 I must be doing something wrong. Oct 17 19:07:56 jeward, I used this frontend for clit (yes, convertlit is called that too...) : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=137831&postcount=18 . then i pointed fbreader to the new zip Oct 17 19:08:36 :O qwerty, you said a bad word Oct 17 19:08:49 lcuk, surprise! :p Oct 17 19:08:53 you have made this guy go and find the clit Oct 17 19:09:02 i wonder if he will ever find it Oct 17 19:09:16 lol Oct 17 19:09:24 lcuk thanks! Oct 17 19:10:11 maemo.org is down? Oct 17 19:10:14 cant connect to it Oct 17 19:11:00 seems to be, give it a few minutes and try again? Oct 17 19:11:04 ello JamieBennett1 Oct 17 19:11:14 Hi Gary :) Oct 17 19:12:04 JamieBennett1, the projector thing we used, was it something you took over or from nokia? Oct 17 19:12:12 or did c-base find it? Oct 17 19:12:23 Project was from c-base Oct 17 19:12:29 the overhead one? Oct 17 19:12:33 Yes Oct 17 19:12:40 wicked then Oct 17 19:13:40 why? Oct 17 19:13:50 jagernot, maemo is workin again now apparantly Oct 17 19:13:53 (you broke it ;)) Oct 17 19:14:32 heh no - the last i heard before we arrived was one might be rigged up - they didnt know before whether one could be found Oct 17 19:14:49 * lcuk has an image of all the c-base crew flying around the world hunting Oct 17 19:15:16 I tried to get a camcorder and a stand to do screen caps but it failed. They 'found' that somewhere apparently. Oct 17 19:16:15 yeah, worked wonders - now we just have to make sure we get one for every summit Oct 17 19:16:49 brb anyway Oct 17 19:17:27 someone should hack libgtkstylus to use libxsp Oct 17 19:17:45 |rt|, Boxwave anti-glare. Oct 17 19:18:54 lcuk: Indeed. If I have the oportunity to attend the next summit I want to organise the talks well before we get there (presentations on USB keys beforehand, equipment available and setup e.t.c) Oct 17 19:18:54 so that a hard press means right click or something Oct 17 19:18:55 :P Oct 17 19:19:34 Stskeeps: That is called tap-and-hold ;) Oct 17 19:19:43 yeah, but without the maemo gtk :P Oct 17 19:19:59 * Stskeeps isnt satisfied with libgtkstylus so Oct 17 19:20:11 <|rt|> GeneralAntilles: thanks I'm looking at their stuff now....need to get a case for it as well Oct 17 19:20:24 <|rt|> I don't really care much for the one it comes with from nokia Oct 17 19:20:32 It's just a shipping protector. Oct 17 19:20:34 Not meant to be left on Oct 17 19:20:45 (though I left mine on my N800 for 6 months before I got the Boxwave) Oct 17 19:20:57 I have a guide on applying the Boxwave somewhere on itT if you do end up getting it. Oct 17 19:21:14 GeneralAntilles: Gave some nice scratches in the scrollbar area for me ;) Oct 17 19:21:30 I used my 770 without a screen protector Oct 17 19:21:32 On the shipping protector one. Oct 17 19:21:37 I had scratches from Maemodrac Oct 17 19:21:54 * Stskeeps loves his boxwave screen protector Oct 17 19:22:10 after scratching the work one without a screen protector :P Oct 17 19:22:37 * GeneralAntilles can't remember whether he was using plural or singular for wikpages. Oct 17 19:23:15 Anybody want to update: https://wiki.maemo.org/Template:Hot_Topics ? Oct 17 19:27:52 Later guys, have a good weekend. Oct 17 19:27:57 qwerty12_N800: My n810 won't install the lit2zip*.deb file. :-( Oct 17 19:28:38 hello...what should i do to connect to n810 from my linux machine...ie i would like to telnet to it. thanks Oct 17 19:28:43 Bye, X-Fade. Oct 17 19:28:53 openssh Oct 17 19:28:56 ~extras Oct 17 19:28:57 i heard extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Oct 17 19:29:12 openssh is there on extras u mean? Oct 17 19:29:21 jeward, use dpkg -i lit2zip.deb as root Oct 17 19:29:25 Yes Oct 17 19:29:58 qwerty12_N800: It complains of no python, is there an argument that tells it to also install pre-requisites? Oct 17 19:30:37 jeward, hmm, apt-get install whatever it's asking for Oct 17 19:30:45 qwerty12_N800: K. Oct 17 19:33:57 Ah, much better! Oct 17 19:37:09 anyone who's good with gtk.gdk.Color? Oct 17 19:37:22 (python or otherwise) Oct 17 19:37:49 i just found some code where they use "#rrggbb" notation for constructor of it, which doesn't fit in any apis i can find Oct 17 19:38:14 hmm i cant find openssh on extras.. Oct 17 19:41:26 Is it enabled? Oct 17 19:41:40 It's in there, anyway. Oct 17 19:42:54 * ShadowJK_ fails at tap-and-hold too often Oct 17 19:44:30 is it not possible to telnet over usb? Oct 17 19:44:48 i have connected n810 to my linux mc via usb Oct 17 19:45:43 jagernot, compile utelnetd :p Oct 17 19:46:16 * qwerty12_N800 would highly recommend openssh instead like GeneralAntilles said Oct 17 19:47:35 https://wiki.maemo.org/Screen_protector Oct 17 19:47:44 If anybody wants to add their favorite brand. Oct 17 19:47:45 i download openssh for n810 and install it and run it? but i dont have wifi internet access here Oct 17 19:48:06 i want to do a hello world app to start with. Oct 17 19:48:34 qwerty12_N800: Well, I got it running, but I don't really see the advantage of FBReader over just loading the .htm file into the web browser? Oct 17 19:48:50 qwerty12_N800: Unless I'm missing something significant. Oct 17 19:49:48 jeward, bookmarks :) + it's a dedicated book reader. but I didn't recommend fbreader, it was you asking how to load an lit into fbreader Oct 17 19:49:53 hmm, how much free space does / have on a flashed device now? Oct 17 19:50:14 qwerty12_N800: Ah, what do you recommend? :-) Oct 17 19:50:52 jeward, fbreader :). It's the only book reader we have afaik. Oct 17 19:51:01 sp3000, ~128MB Oct 17 19:51:17 tx Oct 17 19:51:21 jeward, formatting, hotkeys, library support, bookmarks. Oct 17 19:51:22 qwerty12_N800: Thanks for all your help! Oct 17 19:51:28 It's a lot better than the browser for reading. Oct 17 19:51:37 jeward, np Oct 17 19:51:44 Yeah, bookmarks would be very useful. Oct 17 19:55:42 jagernot, openssh debs are here: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/free/o/openssh/ but it's a little more long than installing from extras. If all you need is a shell over usb, maybe using the g_serial module would be easier Oct 17 20:10:46 rotation in fbreader too, and I assume lower ram usage Oct 17 20:13:45 download openssh packages, put on mmc over usb, umount and disconnect, install on tablet, reconnect, umount on pc, on device as root rmmod g_file_storage, insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/*/g_ether.ko, ifconfig usb0 alocaladdress, on pc ifconfig usb0 anappropriatenearbylocaladdress Oct 17 20:14:12 2. ? Oct 17 20:15:34 3. PROFIT! Oct 17 20:16:12 2. invent the iphone, it's simpler Oct 17 20:16:13 4. Armed robbery where i steal Stskeeps's profit Oct 17 20:17:19 also you forgot step 0 Oct 17 20:20:08 0. Coffee. Oct 17 20:20:51 god, it feels good when one of your file server hds actually do fail, and your data is safe with zfs, and backup Oct 17 20:21:42 <|rt|> has anyone played with fennec yet? Oct 17 20:30:16 hrm, plan 9 exists for arm.. Oct 17 20:30:19 * Stskeeps glances at tablet Oct 17 20:30:26 Anybody knows, how/when the NIT synchronizes time with some external server? Oct 17 20:30:36 for some reason, the time on NIT is ~20 minutes off Oct 17 20:30:41 don't think it does Oct 17 20:30:46 get ntpdate or the likes Oct 17 20:31:00 well, I can't remember me to set the date/time Oct 17 20:31:03 zap: google tells me you know something about /sys/devices/platform/dsp/state and what it does? :P Oct 17 20:31:08 looks like he did it itself :) Oct 17 20:31:19 me? Oct 17 20:31:27 well, irc logs of this channel said something :P Oct 17 20:31:31 maybe I asked what's that? :) Oct 17 20:31:34 hehe, okay Oct 17 20:44:44 zap: if it does sync time, it has to do it via NTP Oct 17 20:54:18 Helloooo, andre___. Oct 17 21:04:31 hej hej :) Oct 17 22:05:57 * Stskeeps plays a little more with hildon on deblet Oct 17 22:11:44 t_s_o, ping. Oct 17 22:11:54 mornin GeneralAntilles Oct 17 22:12:19 t_s_o, basically we need to experiment with packaging. Oct 17 22:12:54 Right now it's all talk, so we need people to play with the packaging and people to be guinea pigs once there's something concrete. Oct 17 22:12:56 in other words, who has a IT to act as a lab rat? Oct 17 22:13:35 More or less Oct 17 22:13:47 but that's still dependent on somebody stepping up to actually put together some packages. ;) Oct 17 22:14:06 <|rt|> what's an IT? Oct 17 22:14:14 ow Oct 17 22:14:14 :P Oct 17 22:14:15 <|rt|> internet tablet? Oct 17 22:15:02 yeah Oct 17 22:18:33 night chaps Oct 17 22:23:41 are there any hildon themes where the fonts are not so bloody oversized? Oct 17 22:25:01 in terms of web surfing, general usage.. how much better is the newest diablo - Nokia N800 .. vs the Nokia 770 ( OS2006/07 ) Oct 17 22:25:33 it has improvements obviously Oct 17 22:25:57 770 to 800 is a good step up :P Oct 17 22:27:06 I'm buying a N800 off someone on craigslist this sunday. Oct 17 22:27:11 I used to own the 770. Oct 17 22:27:18 But it was hella slow for browsing and stuff Oct 17 22:27:33 then n800 probably helps Oct 17 22:27:43 my 770 got wsod many months ago. Oct 17 22:27:55 N800 for $150 ? you think thats good? ( Canadian Dollars ) Oct 17 22:28:05 used - comes with everything Oct 17 22:28:12 that's decent, think i paid like 200-250$ for mine Oct 17 22:28:14 from fresh Oct 17 22:28:22 yeah but you get warranty :P Oct 17 22:29:06 not when you have to import from the US when the company importing in .dk screwed you over to the extent of almost filing a police report for fraud towards them Oct 17 22:29:09 :P Oct 17 22:29:21 loll Oct 17 22:29:36 you live in denmark ? Oct 17 22:29:39 yeah Oct 17 22:30:01 does anyone knows about maemo app to control xbmc? Oct 17 22:30:18 there is one? Oct 17 22:30:40 i remember some "dev" talked about it in this channel Oct 17 22:30:50 january this year or so.. Oct 17 22:33:17 i'm not sure to start writing it myself in python+gtk bindings; send/get data via built-in xbmc web server Oct 17 22:33:18 How good is android on N800 ? Oct 17 22:33:38 xbmc = xbox media center, right? Oct 17 22:33:48 sorry.. yeah Oct 17 22:34:03 zakkm: it's a proof of concept really Oct 17 22:34:13 not usable? Oct 17 22:34:20 like a good alternative? Oct 17 22:34:22 it's usable to some extent but it's an old version Oct 17 22:34:50 name? source? Oct 17 22:35:38 By the looks of it i will just be using Canola and microb. Oct 17 22:35:50 How good is iNES? and those emulators? Oct 17 22:36:22 using canola? that would be quite nice Oct 17 22:36:41 looks so good.. didn't work on my old 770 Oct 17 22:37:18 * Stskeeps is torn between liking hildon and not liking it Oct 17 22:38:04 unless one have a keyboard (or own a N810) game emulators on the tablet makes no sense Oct 17 22:38:16 lol Oct 17 22:38:18 scuumvm ? Oct 17 22:38:21 zakkm, why not try them and see? Oct 17 22:38:30 I dont have the tablet yet. Oct 17 22:38:33 t_s_o, have you tried them with an N800? Oct 17 22:38:38 * mgedmin can play tic tac toe without a keyboard, so there! Oct 17 22:38:38 GeneralAntilles: I'm buying on sunday. Oct 17 22:39:01 VGBA and VGB work great for me on my N800 Oct 17 22:39:11 You can hook up a Wiimote if the controls really bother you. Oct 17 22:39:16 GenerealAntilles: Diablo? Oct 17 22:39:22 Wiimotes work on n800 ? Oct 17 22:39:26 Sure Oct 17 22:39:31 It's just a Bluetooth device. Oct 17 22:39:41 any bluetooth device works? Oct 17 22:40:02 As long as there are drivers for it. Oct 17 22:40:02 and try to hold two devices? meh. if one have to put the device on a table to play, one could just go for a desktop emulator anyways... Oct 17 22:40:31 t_s_o, the Wiimote is one-handed, the tablet is one-handed . Oct 17 22:40:33 It works fine. Oct 17 22:40:39 Just ask Navi. ;) Oct 17 22:40:56 heh, i envisioned using it in the classical nes hold... Oct 17 22:41:02 GeneralAntilles: would i just have to go through nokia builtin settings to get wiimote to work and function ? Oct 17 22:41:20 if one was to use the sensorsystem instead, i guess it could work, somewhat... Oct 17 22:41:40 zakkm, Wiicontrol Oct 17 22:42:08 Anyway, I don't have any trouble using VGBA with just the N800. Oct 17 22:47:17 zakkm, anyway, yes, RST38h's emulators are very high quality. Oct 17 22:47:32 Which did RST38h do? Oct 17 22:47:47 Ya sorry, my Linkinus trial ended so i had to download another irc client Oct 17 22:47:54 Colloquy Oct 17 22:47:59 Linkinus sucks Oct 17 22:48:02 http://fms.komkon.net/ Oct 17 22:48:09 yeah im on colloquy now Oct 17 22:48:18 only other i know Oct 17 22:48:28 * Stskeeps wonders how powerlaunch works on deblet Oct 17 22:48:32 There are a few from the Classic days, but those suck worse. Oct 17 22:48:33 doesn't seem that maemo-depedannt Oct 17 22:48:54 lol Oct 17 22:49:07 i know irssi and stuff.. but i meant like fully gui mac ones. Oct 17 22:49:22 and mirc and stuff for windows.. Oct 17 22:49:31 Snak, Ircle, etc. Oct 17 22:49:35 is the VGBA playable? like high framerate Oct 17 22:49:40 oh those suck :P so ugly Oct 17 22:50:09 GeneralAntilles: if i get a decent hildon environment up for deblet, is it something you'd like to either work or on try and see what can be done for it? Oct 17 22:51:11 Hrm Oct 17 22:51:15 Maybe Oct 17 22:51:27 More likely I might push it community-side. Oct 17 22:52:33 GeneralAntiles:In your opinion, is $150 good for a used Nokia N800 with all the stuff it came with? Oct 17 22:52:38 Canadian dollars. Oct 17 22:52:50 Sounds like a good deal. Oct 17 22:52:57 Assuming it's not scratched to hell. Oct 17 22:53:09 yeah i wouldnt buy it if it is Oct 17 22:53:10 Stskeeps, It's something I'd definitely be interested in seeing, but it's not something I see myself putting a lot my own time into. Oct 17 22:53:28 Mostly because I have a tendency to pick up lots of projects then never really invest much time in any of them. Oct 17 22:53:52 *nod* so far i've isolated problems like, maemo-gtk and gtk isn't all that synced just yet, extras come from rest of X obviously, the fact people depend on closed source libraries for their apps, .. and much other stuff Oct 17 22:53:57 One question, sorry, Does canola work on diablo ? Oct 17 22:54:14 Yes, it works just fine. Oct 17 22:54:19 nokia has without thinking about it caused platform lock in, imho Oct 17 22:54:43 99% of stuff is compatible between Chinook and Diablo. Oct 17 22:54:59 Is the VGBA smooth playback ? Oct 17 22:55:01 gaming* Oct 17 22:55:06 Very Oct 17 22:55:10 awesome :) Oct 17 22:55:16 going to one nice purchase. Oct 17 22:55:31 Stskeeps, now, pushing Nokia for changes along the lines of https://wiki.maemo.org/Objective:Maemo_variants is something I can definitely do. Oct 17 22:56:02 yeah, need to be people to push the political agenda too i guess :P Oct 17 22:56:09 *waits for wiki to load..* Oct 17 22:56:21 yeah taking long for me too Oct 17 22:56:49 That objective fits perfectly with my community council hat. ;) Oct 17 22:58:22 Stskeeps, the Fremantle alpha SDK is an especially good time to start pushing the upstream compatibility. Oct 17 22:59:11 They seem to be heading in that directly anyway, but pointing out specific failure points will help. Oct 17 22:59:16 When i get nokia, is it safe to update to the newest diablo ? Oct 17 22:59:23 I been reading forum post and it seems risky Oct 17 22:59:23 Yes Oct 17 23:00:30 zakkm: just do it from fresh before installing anything and you should be fine Oct 17 23:00:52 im buying it used so it might already have apps on it Oct 17 23:00:54 Not doing stupid things prevents you from having trouble. Oct 17 23:00:57 ~flashing Oct 17 23:00:58 extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 17 23:01:02 I was thinking of reflashing it and then updating Oct 17 23:01:25 Is flashing in Mac okay? Oct 17 23:01:29 Yes Oct 17 23:01:33 770Flasher.app works fine. Oct 17 23:01:35 .. still waiting for wiki Oct 17 23:01:40 yeah me too Oct 17 23:01:44 wiki is like broken :P Oct 17 23:01:50 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Oct 17 23:01:56 When are those servers coming? . . . Oct 17 23:02:29 X-Fade's got them all playing Quake 2 against each other. Oct 17 23:02:46 GeneralAntilles: in any case, a proof of concept powerlaunch + hildon env should be enough for people to start hacking eventually.. then people can pick up from there i guess Oct 17 23:03:21 Stskeeps, just gotta find the tipping point where people are interested enough to start investing their own time. Oct 17 23:03:23 yeah Oct 17 23:03:52 My biggest issue with Deblet is the UI. Oct 17 23:04:17 It's awkward using a desktop DE, the keys don't work like I expect them, virtual input sucks, etc, etc. Oct 17 23:04:27 i prefer hildon myself, or maybe something along the lines of http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/files/www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/nodes/2888/two.jpg Oct 17 23:04:33 would WM's work well ? Oct 17 23:04:43 *box's ? Oct 17 23:05:40 Once you get to the point where you've pretty well replicated Maemo's Ui, and most things work as you'd expect (or better!), then it starts to look like a more viable alternative. Oct 17 23:06:15 is hildon closed source? Oct 17 23:06:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildon Oct 17 23:06:28 It's open source. Oct 17 23:06:45 stskeeps: nice screenshot ( reading the show off your screenshots thread) Oct 17 23:06:56 so why not just edit hildon ? Oct 17 23:07:07 Somebody changed that screenshot to an ugly one of Ubuntu Mobile for some reason. Oct 17 23:07:13 I'm half tempted to change it back Oct 17 23:07:27 since the OS2008 shot looked much nicer (and better demonstrated exactly what Hildon is) Oct 17 23:07:43 stskeeps: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/hildlet6.png <--- deblet ? Oct 17 23:07:48 looks like maemo Oct 17 23:08:04 GeneralAntilles: the current low-resolution screenshot on that wikipedia page sucks, go do it Oct 17 23:08:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Itos_2008_desktop.jpg Oct 17 23:08:47 That's what I was using. Oct 17 23:09:01 default? Oct 17 23:09:22 zakkm: yeah, that's deblet+hildon Oct 17 23:09:32 is there a free GPS software which is complete with voices and all? Oct 17 23:09:47 maemo mapper maybe Oct 17 23:09:51 deblet+ hildon ? Oct 17 23:10:02 so its not maemo . but it looks and acts like it? lol Oct 17 23:10:13 mgedmin, Ubuntu fanboys are a bit weird on Wikipedia. Oct 17 23:10:15 it's not maemo, it's deblet and hildon :P Oct 17 23:10:20 Maemo Mapper Oct 17 23:10:22 Using flite Oct 17 23:10:27 Not great, but it fits the bill. Oct 17 23:10:29 which is not entirely like maemo Oct 17 23:10:33 so, put both screenshots on the page Oct 17 23:10:47 Stskeeps: i like your skin in it and was wondering if its a maemo skin, but i guess not Oct 17 23:10:56 They stick Ubuntu references in the strangest places. Oct 17 23:10:58 zakkm: it's "plankton".. think it's in sdk Oct 17 23:11:01 mgedmin, sounds like a plan! Oct 17 23:11:11 .. but anyway, it's one of the open source themes Oct 17 23:11:13 Was wondering if i could have it. But i would like to use maemo for awhile before i start deblet and stuff Oct 17 23:11:26 zakkm, like Stskeeps says, it's Plankton, the free theme they use for the SDK, it's also available for the tablets. Oct 17 23:11:27 hildon-theme-plankton, google it Oct 17 23:11:46 oh sweet :) Oct 17 23:11:47 thanks Oct 17 23:11:48 bookmarking Oct 17 23:12:06 wait this is 2007 ? Oct 17 23:12:07 OS2007 ? Oct 17 23:12:12 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/12pt-hildon-theme-plankton/ Oct 17 23:12:41 ah ill figure it out Oct 17 23:13:41 I have a question Oct 17 23:13:44 interesting url though Oct 17 23:14:04 How do i backup everything . so if flash fails.. It will still work from a backup? Oct 17 23:14:31 GeneralAntilles: frightening, powerlaunch compiled with only 1-2 changes. first maemo app doing that Oct 17 23:14:34 :P Oct 17 23:15:36 mgedmin, OK, added both. Thanks! Oct 17 23:15:39 .. besides advanced-backlight Oct 17 23:15:53 :P Oct 17 23:16:21 hello again Oct 17 23:16:36 do you know of any nice PIM tool for both my PC and n810? :) Oct 17 23:16:37 For everything deblet, apps etc.. what size SD should i be looking at? Oct 17 23:16:45 not including music,video etc.. Oct 17 23:16:56 8GB-16GB is the sweet spot for price Oct 17 23:17:03 haha cant afford that much Oct 17 23:17:09 $30? Oct 17 23:17:17 2GB = $7.99 XD Oct 17 23:17:26 im about to pay $150 for nokia. It will make me broke. Oct 17 23:17:36 :> Oct 17 23:17:43 Im a 17 year old high school student. Oct 17 23:17:49 well, for n800? Oct 17 23:17:49 Get a job! Oct 17 23:17:53 i have a job Oct 17 23:17:56 GeneralAntilles: :> Oct 17 23:17:56 i work 28 hours this coming week Oct 17 23:17:57 Get another job! Oct 17 23:18:07 if it were that simple Oct 17 23:18:07 + classes.. Oct 17 23:18:20 What are the labor laws up there like? Oct 17 23:18:21 Astorm: doesnt GarnetVM work ? Oct 17 23:18:27 I feel the whole PIM section is being ignored with n's Oct 17 23:18:31 * GeneralAntilles was doing 40 hours a week at work during his senior year. Oct 17 23:18:31 GeneralAntiles: perfect? idkk Oct 17 23:18:34 zakkm: it sucks, it's not integrated etc. Oct 17 23:18:37 it's PALM! Oct 17 23:18:43 so? Oct 17 23:18:43 it wastes n's UI Oct 17 23:18:47 AStorm, GPE? Oct 17 23:18:50 Pimlico? Oct 17 23:18:52 and it's slower than native Oct 17 23:18:55 Astorm: .. add KDE and use KDE PIM ? :) Oct 17 23:18:56 Khertan's stuff? Oct 17 23:18:58 GeneralAntilles: close, but no cigar Oct 17 23:19:02 anything better? Oct 17 23:19:12 GeneralAntilles: Pimlico... haven't tried Oct 17 23:19:16 webpages please? Oct 17 23:19:22 :) Oct 17 23:19:37 http://www.pimlico-project.org/dates.html Oct 17 23:19:45 zakkm: I don't want KDE, thank you Oct 17 23:19:49 There are a finite number of PIM packages on Maemo Oct 17 23:19:53 it is too all-inclusive, can't just take a part of it Oct 17 23:19:59 Sooo, either one of the few will do it for you or it wont. ;) Oct 17 23:20:00 GeneralAntilles: ah, that one Oct 17 23:20:04 with non-integrated apps? Oct 17 23:20:10 something more integrated please? Oct 17 23:20:10 AStorm: can use easy debian and install kde-pim? Oct 17 23:20:15 that way its integrated into maemo ? Oct 17 23:20:16 zakkm: ... Oct 17 23:20:28 it's too integrated in its own! Oct 17 23:20:37 I mean, if I pull a bit of KDE, I have to eat it whole Oct 17 23:20:38 Pimlico is integrated. . . . Oct 17 23:20:43 or I'll have problems Oct 17 23:20:50 just size wise Oct 17 23:20:52 not UI . Oct 17 23:20:57 GeneralAntilles: really? it has 3 apps for the same PIM Oct 17 23:20:59 :) Oct 17 23:21:15 It's Hildonized Oct 17 23:21:23 GeneralAntilles: yes, that's a plus Oct 17 23:21:28 * GeneralAntilles isn't quite sure what you mean by "integrated". Oct 17 23:21:33 Is there any alternatives besides Deblet ? Oct 17 23:21:38 reasonable ones. Oct 17 23:21:44 I'm assuming that means ". . . with Maemo", which means "Hildonized" Oct 17 23:21:45 i'm not even sure deblet is reasonable Oct 17 23:21:52 lol Oct 17 23:22:00 GeneralAntilles: might be, might not as long as UI is usable enough on n Oct 17 23:22:04 i mean ones worth looking into Oct 17 23:22:10 syncing with main machine is important Oct 17 23:22:17 and that it's buildable here Oct 17 23:22:25 zakkm, truth be told, Maemo is really more than adequate. Oct 17 23:22:38 It has its quirks, but it works. Oct 17 23:22:44 that it does Oct 17 23:22:47 I know but i like how you say .. looking around, trying new software.. Oct 17 23:22:47 Which can't entirely be said of most of the alternatives (yet). Oct 17 23:23:03 Then you'll want some SD cards. ;) Oct 17 23:23:14 uhm... I think... Pimlico's Todo is a failure Oct 17 23:23:17 it has no categorizing Oct 17 23:23:21 no nesting Oct 17 23:23:23 no nothing Oct 17 23:23:26 When i had my 770 .. i downloaded every app in application manager :P Oct 17 23:23:30 and added repos and all too Oct 17 23:23:40 * zakkm likes trying new software Oct 17 23:23:45 wrong, it has 1-level nesting, not enough Oct 17 23:24:12 I just dropped chandler because it has no nesting Oct 17 23:24:19 (on main machine) Oct 17 23:25:02 See, I need a way to categorize all these todos Oct 17 23:25:15 google calendar :) Oct 17 23:25:22 zakkm: no offline mode, pity Oct 17 23:25:29 offline is required Oct 17 23:25:35 none have google gears? Oct 17 23:27:08 sorry, I can't see untimed stuff in Google Calendar Oct 17 23:27:12 it fails on start :) Oct 17 23:27:36 Too bad alterego's todo never came out. Oct 17 23:27:37 I need timed and untimed stuff Oct 17 23:27:46 with simple nesting Oct 17 23:28:36 what about that "Dates" that GeneralAntiles sent ? Oct 17 23:28:40 that looked nice Oct 17 23:29:12 it doesn't support undated stuff either Oct 17 23:29:15 and has no nesting Oct 17 23:29:31 heck, why does Todo have to be a flat list? Oct 17 23:29:37 this is so wrong Oct 17 23:30:08 it was supposed to be Personal Information *Management* Oct 17 23:34:56 hmm Oct 17 23:35:01 just found something called NoteCase Oct 17 23:35:27 but I suspect it doesn't take dates at all :-( Oct 17 23:36:29 something like that, but with dates, priorities and maybe completion count for categories Oct 17 23:40:12 http://www.taskcoach.org/ - GOLD! Oct 17 23:40:26 ok, now, someone please port it and hildonize Oct 17 23:41:50 for reference, it uses wxPython Oct 17 23:42:06 with PyOpenGL Oct 17 23:42:26 hmm, no, opengl part is not required Oct 17 23:42:37 just wxPython. Do we have it already? Oct 17 23:48:44 no wxwigets for maemo so far Oct 17 23:48:48 argh Oct 17 23:48:58 dammit, porting that is much too hard Oct 17 23:49:04 debian armel has it? Oct 17 23:49:16 I thought wx had been ported? Oct 17 23:49:29 but i hear that wxwidgets is hildonized in svn Oct 17 23:49:59 GeneralAntilles: :) Oct 17 23:50:22 maybe there is deb somewhere but it doesn't help if nobody knows where it is Oct 17 23:51:09 Hehe Oct 17 23:51:39 hmmm :-( Oct 17 23:52:05 actually hildozed wx is great, because you get hildonized apps without changing any code Oct 17 23:52:27 at least somewhat hildonized Oct 17 23:52:34 so, can I have it? Oct 17 23:52:38 with wxPython as well Oct 17 23:52:44 (which should be easy) Oct 17 23:53:12 Grab sources from svn and try? Oct 17 23:53:30 haven't tried myself Oct 17 23:54:07 I mean, from wx svn? Oct 17 23:57:09 because "from svn" is not specific enough Oct 17 23:57:32 wx svn, yes Oct 17 23:58:04 here's some early work about wx and hildon http://wxwidgets.blogspot.com/2007/11/hildonizing-wxgtk.html Oct 17 23:58:56 there's somewhere better pictures Oct 18 00:00:28 these are good enough Oct 18 00:00:51 ok, so I get to grab it and finish the work... package for Maemo (urgh!) and do the same with wxPython Oct 18 00:02:50 then mangle ui of taskcoach to fit small screen better Oct 18 00:05:06 screenshots on taskcoach are about tablet screen size Oct 18 00:05:26 at taskcoach website Oct 18 00:06:30 but its ui is rightclick loaded Oct 18 00:06:43 or menu loaded Oct 18 00:07:24 menus are large too Oct 18 00:10:25 some of the menus should be offloaded to a configuration screen Oct 18 00:12:23 screenshots don't tell the whole truth I guess :) Oct 18 00:12:39 well, nothing major is needed Oct 18 00:13:06 it has subwindows, which are selectable Oct 18 00:13:08 "views" Oct 18 00:13:13 this goes to configuration Oct 18 00:14:01 Sort and Columns are too cumbersome as menus Oct 18 00:18:05 here's more about wx&hildon http://maemolibs.blogspot.com/2007/12/first-some-screenshots.html Oct 18 00:22:31 looks good, except for file dialogs Oct 18 00:22:45 which is really what has to be changed in Maemo's port of GTK Oct 18 00:23:00 no, not some hildon overlay on top of GTK. GTK itself. Oct 18 00:25:03 yes, apps like gimp would need porting, but they do anyway Oct 18 00:29:16 (just make gtk use libhildon's file dialog?) Oct 18 00:30:00 hmm, circular dependency probably Oct 18 00:53:35 GeneralAntilles: how do I install flite? Oct 18 00:55:06 anyone know how to install flite? Oct 18 00:55:14 its not in the repos .... Oct 18 00:57:23 anyone? Oct 18 01:03:00 it is in the repos Oct 18 01:03:04 but needs red pill Oct 18 01:10:41 red pill? Oct 18 01:10:52 :-S Oct 18 01:11:43 please explain AStorm Oct 18 01:18:23 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationManagerRedPillMode/ Oct 18 01:18:30 I am not understanding this Oct 18 01:18:48 enter "matrix" into the "Web Address" field, click "Cancel". Oct 18 01:19:02 I did that and nothing is different Oct 18 01:19:15 apt-get install flite Oct 18 01:19:36 AStorm, don't spread redpill <_< Oct 18 01:19:36 why would I add something new only to cancel it? Oct 18 01:19:48 GAN800: ok then :) Oct 18 01:20:00 zetheroo: because it's top secret etc. Oct 18 01:20:02 flite is not in the repos .... that is why he told me abotu redpill Oct 18 01:20:08 it is in the repos Oct 18 01:20:20 but you can't install it w/o admin rights (can't even see it) Oct 18 01:20:28 apt-get is a lot safer than red pill Oct 18 01:21:03 wow ... this is really where things are annoying... I keep going around in circles with this thing... and everyone has a different solution to the same thing.... Oct 18 01:21:13 ;-) Oct 18 01:21:39 I already tried apt-get .... but its not working either Oct 18 01:21:49 and ... yes... I did it from root Oct 18 01:21:57 Add Chinook Extras to the catalog list Oct 18 01:22:03 flite isn't in Diablo Extras yet. Oct 18 01:22:05 this should not be this difficult! Oct 18 01:22:46 what are the Chinook Extras and how do I add them? Oct 18 01:22:50 Talk gnuite into uploading flite to Diablo Extras. Oct 18 01:23:34 why should anyone have to talk them into it? Oct 18 01:23:43 its like a basic thing ... Oct 18 01:23:51 Because, apparently, he hasn't done it on his own volition yet? Oct 18 01:23:57 needed with any GPS Oct 18 01:23:59 yeah Oct 18 01:24:01 ok.... Oct 18 01:24:08 No it's not. Oct 18 01:24:15 so how do I add this repo? ... :) Oct 18 01:24:23 It's a voice synthesis program used by Maemo Mapper. Oct 18 01:24:29 well... I have not seen anyone use GPS without voice Oct 18 01:25:11 maybe there is another GPS program for Maemo which already has voices? and maybe even maps? Oct 18 01:25:13 i don't Oct 18 01:25:24 "Map" Oct 18 01:25:43 yeah ... and they are now charging for their services ... Oct 18 01:25:51 which is great and all ... :) Oct 18 01:26:23 except I was not flipped out with Map to begin with ... and then having to pay for it was a bit sucky ... Oct 18 01:26:42 where can I find the repo settings to add? Oct 18 01:27:17 Chinook Extras Oct 18 01:28:33 are these the ones? Oct 18 01:28:34 deb http://repository.maemo.org/ chinook free non-free deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ chinook free non-free Oct 18 01:30:13 Probably easier to just install the .deb from http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/f/flite/ Oct 18 01:31:54 zetheroo: paying is not sucky, unless you are a freeloader or have no money :) Oct 18 01:32:08 or the service is crummy (it is in Poland) Oct 18 01:34:56 GeneralAntilles, what do you use for editing html? wordpad is a bit crap and im not used to having to write my own Oct 18 01:35:17 Usually vim Oct 18 01:35:28 Or BBEdit Oct 18 01:35:42 AStorm I don't mind paying for a program that I think is great ... but I did not think that of Map Oct 18 01:36:09 and I am very strapped for cash as well ... :( Oct 18 01:39:00 thx gen, hmmm ill have to find something Oct 18 01:39:11 frontpage! Oct 18 01:39:19 * lcuk gives GeneralAntilles a heartattack Oct 18 01:39:29 or should i do it in word? Oct 18 01:39:36 * GeneralAntilles kills himself. Oct 18 01:39:47 heh Oct 18 01:41:54 Frontpage is actually pretty impressive. Oct 18 01:42:03 a 500-word HTML page is suddenly 1.9MB Oct 18 01:42:34 heh Oct 18 01:47:37 what makes it even more impressive is a 1 word HTML page is still 1.3MB Oct 18 01:47:45 its like anti-compression Oct 18 01:48:30 hahaha Oct 18 01:48:31 I'd love to have been a fly on the wall in one of those planning meetings. Oct 18 01:48:50 though i do believe in some later versions they did something and actually made it kinda work if the wind was in your direction and you actually wrote from scratch Oct 18 01:50:24 Great, another goddamn repository. Oct 18 01:50:37 its like whack-a-mole Oct 18 01:50:41 * GeneralAntilles finally decides to put tz down on his shit list. Oct 18 01:50:44 * lcuk hides his quickly Oct 18 01:50:46 I officially hate that guy. Oct 18 01:52:19 * GeneralAntilles wonders if it's too late to make fried chicken. Oct 18 01:53:26 did you get more mayo? Oct 18 01:54:07 Nope, but, thankfully, you don't need mayo for fried chicken. Oct 18 01:55:17 thats like saying you don't need bacon for an LT sandwich Oct 18 01:55:38 Southern fried chicken does not involve mayo. Oct 18 01:55:51 Fried chicken and gravy Oct 18 01:55:53 maybe some rice. Oct 18 02:01:57 man Oct 18 02:02:01 i could go for some fried chicken Oct 18 02:03:05 Only after Fennec is in Extras-devel. Oct 18 02:03:39 heh Oct 18 02:03:40 soon Oct 18 02:04:02 i'll try to get something up there next week Oct 18 02:04:21 need to figure out how to sign the changes with the right key Oct 18 02:04:31 ~uploading-extras Oct 18 02:04:32 hmm... uploading-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Oct 18 02:04:40 Harass X-Fade if you need help. Oct 18 02:04:43 yeah, i've got the page open ;) Oct 18 02:05:04 and if you have any improvement suggestions for that wiki page, let us know. ;) Oct 18 02:05:30 the other problem i need to sort out is that our build machines are all running centos Oct 18 02:05:57 just need to get the dpkg stuff on them i guess Oct 18 02:07:34 Any chance on a PPC build of the OS X release? Oct 18 02:07:40 hrm Oct 18 02:08:05 should be pretty straight forward... let me see if one of our mac guys can do it Oct 18 02:08:30 i broke ssh on mine and haven't fixed it yet and won't be back at my desk for another week Oct 18 02:08:52 now that I installed flite do I need to install voices? Oct 18 02:08:59 There's one voice. Oct 18 02:09:08 which one? Oct 18 02:09:51 He's known as Marvin on OS X. Oct 18 02:10:06 how do I activate him? Oct 18 02:10:12 You don't. Oct 18 02:10:14 I am hearing nothing in maemo-mapper Oct 18 02:10:18 It works out of the box. Oct 18 02:10:25 Do you have voice synthesis turned on in settings? Oct 18 02:10:41 in maemo-mapper settings? Oct 18 02:10:42 yes Oct 18 02:11:28 all I get though is the text box with instructions Oct 18 02:14:28 any ideas? Oct 18 02:18:17 I have been at this GPS thing ... trying to sort it out ... for 3 days now ... Maybe its worth paying for Map afterall ... even though I really like maemo-mapper ... Oct 18 02:19:31 zetheroo, it really does depend on what your time is worth, map is integrated and complete Oct 18 02:20:14 well ... if trying to get maemo-mapper and flite working was a bit more straight-forward that would be gr8 Oct 18 02:20:39 but I have been having the run-around for 3 days now ... and nothing seem to be working like ppl say it does Oct 18 02:20:44 yeah i can see, i dont use either though Oct 18 02:20:55 what do you use? Oct 18 02:21:29 i just like to have the default map showing current location in 3d, i haven't had a use that requires turn by turn routing yet Oct 18 02:21:43 tracytracy who sits next to me in the car can direct us Oct 18 02:21:51 zetheroo, i have map and mapper Oct 18 02:22:03 i use the built in map for driving directions Oct 18 02:22:14 otherwise i think mapper is fantastic Oct 18 02:23:14 maemo mapper has image based mapping which is amazing for exploring a city or lcoation on foot (from what i learnt the other day) but i prefer the clarity of a drawn map when driving Oct 18 02:23:33 hiya moontiger Oct 18 02:23:49 lcuk ... so you use another program altogether? Oct 18 02:23:58 s/drawn/vector/ Oct 18 02:24:02 hey lcuk :) Oct 18 02:24:03 no, "map" includes a 3d view Oct 18 02:24:17 but its vector based lines, not photographs Oct 18 02:24:30 * lcuk likes vectors Oct 18 02:24:30 I see ... Oct 18 02:24:37 yah ... but mapper is so much nicer for walking like u say ... satelite view Oct 18 02:24:38 :) Oct 18 02:24:46 does it have the map in the unit? ... or is it also downloading them? Oct 18 02:25:10 "map" has a map builtin for the whole of the uk (or whichever country i care to download) Oct 18 02:25:28 it includes pois and automatic speed camera warnings Oct 18 02:25:33 even without paying for it Oct 18 02:25:49 Ah, the UK. Oct 18 02:25:52 You guys crack me up. Oct 18 02:26:14 it can pinpoint destinations and since we aren't silly tracy can get me there Oct 18 02:26:43 heh GeneralAntilles you guys have it worse with more mobile speedgun type situations Oct 18 02:26:50 lcuk ... so what does one need to pay for? Oct 18 02:27:01 Eh, it's more fun playing the game. ;) Oct 18 02:27:02 routing Oct 18 02:27:10 Besides, I don't have cameras watching me walk around outside. :P Oct 18 02:27:14 "turn right in 50 metres" Oct 18 02:27:24 GeneralAntilles ... any idea why flite is not working here? Oct 18 02:27:26 "turn round" Oct 18 02:27:28 "turn round" Oct 18 02:27:30 "turn round" Oct 18 02:27:33 "turn round" Oct 18 02:27:34 zetheroo, try restarting? Oct 18 02:27:37 ok Oct 18 02:27:50 We had a Garmin get really pissy at us when we missed a turn one time. Oct 18 02:28:08 "Make a U-turn at your _earliest convenience_ (morons)" Oct 18 02:28:54 heh, we need to get people to make custom voices for the mapper Oct 18 02:29:04 "map :: northern edition" Oct 18 02:29:42 how much is the lisence for Map? Oct 18 02:30:43 i dunno, but why dont you activate the trial Oct 18 02:30:50 its 7 days and lets you see if you want it Oct 18 02:31:20 you can at least then relax and try to sort out maemo-mapper and also have fun with the other one Oct 18 02:31:41 I need to get a bluetooth serial adapter Oct 18 02:31:49 you will feel better and either find you cant be arsed playin any more and pay out, or should have maemo-mapper sorted Oct 18 02:31:51 and also file a bug report on Carman corrupting tracks. . . . Oct 18 02:32:34 i cant decide about carman yet, it gets its info from the engine doesnt it Oct 18 02:32:53 or does it try to extrapolate rpm etc by monitoring your gps speed? Oct 18 02:32:53 ODBII Oct 18 02:32:55 and GPS Oct 18 02:32:58 Hahaha Oct 18 02:32:59 No. Oct 18 02:35:23 why not - its got acceleration data available and not everyone wants to tie in their car to their computer (it might not even be their car) Oct 18 02:35:36 lcuk, is that a serious question? Oct 18 02:35:45 RPM from lat/long, altitude and speed? Oct 18 02:35:54 freemap-il is not installing for me Oct 18 02:36:25 well ive seen it with test data runnin randomly, why not give it speed + acceleration and let it simulate better Oct 18 02:37:13 Fake the RPM data? Oct 18 02:37:17 What would be the point? Oct 18 02:37:23 It doesn't know what gear you're in. Oct 18 02:37:34 There's no way they could even get in the ballpark. Oct 18 02:37:42 of course there is Oct 18 02:37:52 No, there isn't. Oct 18 02:37:58 going from 0-20mph in 2 seconds == high rpm Oct 18 02:38:01 Doing 20mph I can be in any of 5 gears. Oct 18 02:38:11 What if I have a 500hp Corvette? Oct 18 02:38:13 staying at 20 mph for 2 seconds == mid Oct 18 02:38:23 its just a way of utilising whats there Oct 18 02:38:32 What's the point of faking data? Oct 18 02:38:38 To what end? Oct 18 02:38:51 do you think qwertys dad will let him install hardware into the car? Oct 18 02:38:57 cos its a cool program Oct 18 02:39:19 Why not get Maemo Mapper to fake location if you don't have GPS? Oct 18 02:39:39 it doesnt have to be accurate for all purposes, but i can see someone wantign to key in data "bus mode" Oct 18 02:39:42 Or OMWeather to make weather predictions based on internal temp? Oct 18 02:39:51 actually mapper does fake it Oct 18 02:40:00 Better off listening to the engine. Oct 18 02:40:07 it doesnt crash and say "no gps, not showing a map" it lets you see Oct 18 02:40:33 yes, 100% agree, BETTER - but for the simulation mode it could just look at gps and try to do something Oct 18 02:40:43 Bleh Oct 18 02:40:46 Waste of time and effort Oct 18 02:40:52 I'd rather have them fix the track corruption bug. :| Oct 18 02:41:17 yes agreed, but i dont think its the same person/team working on both is it Oct 18 02:42:15 I'm sure there's nobody with enough free time to implement something pointless like that without taking time away from something that actually matters. Oct 18 02:42:59 heh GeneralAntilles :) you forget i spend my life doing exactly that Oct 18 02:43:21 lcuk, we have so many bizarre arguments. Oct 18 02:43:26 heh Oct 18 02:43:53 * GeneralAntilles suspects lcuk of being a troll in a past life. :P Oct 18 02:44:11 im all for discussion, and rather have a rally with you that sit with a blank chan Oct 18 02:44:48 it helps me think, and most of the time your points are valid Oct 18 02:44:53 Does Map have different voices to choose from? Oct 18 02:45:02 http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/17/diyer-gets-crafty-with-plywood-laptop-case/ Oct 18 02:45:12 You should start manufacturing and selling wooden tablet stands. Oct 18 02:46:06 ive got other things to worry about, but yeah - it suits this device Oct 18 02:46:18 Get the family involved. Oct 18 02:46:24 They gotta pull their own weight. Oct 18 02:46:29 and how do i find a supplier for the space age, high tech rubber bands? Oct 18 02:46:46 Your asparagus isn't wrapped in them over there? Oct 18 02:47:04 sorry to bust in your fun .... but do either of you know? Oct 18 02:47:28 zetheroo, im not sure, ive never activated her - but from the backend theres a load of voices Oct 18 02:47:52 i will only do it when i can have kitt Oct 18 02:49:18 still no joy with flite ... Oct 18 02:49:24 even after a restart Oct 18 02:49:44 argh ... Oct 18 02:50:08 is flite a program? ... does it have a GUI? Oct 18 02:50:43 dunno, im off to bed though, gnite GeneralAntilles , rest of chan. Oct 18 02:50:53 night Oct 18 02:50:55 zetheroo, as well Oct 18 02:50:56 see ya Oct 18 02:56:11 * GeneralAntilles needs a sensor bar for his Mac mini. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 18 02:59:56 2008