**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 18 02:59:57 2008 Oct 18 03:05:24 quick question. anyone know if a smartphone could be used as a keyboard? more specifically, a blackjack Oct 18 03:07:36 In theory, sure. Oct 18 03:07:41 Not sure the specifics. Oct 18 03:08:20 Quite a but of tweaking I guess. Oct 18 03:08:29 bit, too Oct 18 03:08:42 Maybe a VNC client? Oct 18 03:08:53 Or get the Blackjack to pretend to be a Bluetooth HID device. Oct 18 03:09:24 That might be easier. Oct 18 03:11:39 I'm just quite surprised that there isn't much interest considering a lot of N800 users also have a smartphone. Oct 18 03:11:54 More trouble than it's worth. Oct 18 03:12:01 The issue really isn't Nokia-side, anyway. Oct 18 03:12:03 It's smartphone side Oct 18 03:12:12 and there are lot of different kinds of smartphones. Oct 18 03:12:30 a lot with windows mobile Oct 18 03:12:55 common thread would likely get more people interested Oct 18 03:14:43 My thing is that if I already have a keyboard smartphone, why pack a portable keyboard too? Oct 18 03:15:48 I'm quite comfortable typing on it, but I guess that's just personal opinion. Oct 18 04:22:14 what's the commandline to flash the diablo image from Linux? Oct 18 04:28:51 n/m found it on itt Oct 18 04:31:12 ~flashing Oct 18 04:31:13 flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 18 04:31:22 ds3, ^ Oct 18 04:31:32 what I found better be right cuz I am 50% into it ;) Oct 18 04:32:16 probably is, but worth bookmarking that one anyway. Oct 18 04:32:38 I am hoping I will never have to do this again... afterall, isn't that the point of diablo? Oct 18 04:32:40 ;) Oct 18 04:33:12 Sure, but you never know Oct 18 04:33:25 What if you get another tablet? Oct 18 04:34:04 I am hoping the next tablet I get will be a OMAP3 with video output Oct 18 04:34:27 nevertheless, location noted Oct 18 04:35:47 composite out on the 3.5mm jack on the N900 would make my day Oct 18 04:36:39 I'll settle for any connector! Oct 18 04:37:58 hdmi video mirroring would be fun, too. Oct 18 04:38:33 or maybe hdmi out at 1024x768 turning off the built in Oct 18 04:40:30 I want HDMI mirroring at 640x480 Oct 18 04:41:40 OMAP3 has a 1024x768 framebuffer and another 640x480, so no mirroring needed at that rez. ;) Oct 18 04:42:17 not sure how the maemo stuff will handle 2 displays so mirroring is the simpliest way Oct 18 04:43:11 True enough, but I don't think it would be too difficult to get it to play nice with two displays. Oct 18 04:43:25 I just want it work with the PicoDLP projector Oct 18 04:43:46 what would you recommend using as note taking programs other than xournal? Oct 18 04:43:56 or is xournal probably the best or only product out there? Oct 18 04:44:18 maemopad+ Oct 18 04:44:26 liqbade Oct 18 04:44:33 er, liqbase Oct 18 04:44:59 ds3, did you see the shots of the new one for the Beagle? Oct 18 04:45:10 GAN800: that's the PicoDLP Oct 18 04:45:56 ah Oct 18 04:48:10 GAN800, thanks Oct 18 05:46:23 something in diablo broq WEP :( Oct 18 05:46:34 and they didn't bother to include wireless tools @#$@$@#%#@$%@##@ Oct 18 05:47:03 1. I'm using a connection with WEP fine. Oct 18 05:47:12 2. You can get wireless-tools. lemme find it. Oct 18 05:47:27 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/w/wireless-tools/ Oct 18 05:47:39 does it want the hex WEP key or ? Oct 18 05:47:59 chinook worked fine with the hex string (same as given to iwconfig key) Oct 18 05:48:02 I'm pretty sure you can use the ASCII one but I typed in the hex Oct 18 05:48:20 did it want the '-'s? Oct 18 05:48:31 No, just the numbers straight Oct 18 05:48:47 that's what i have and I have a Linux laptop next to it that works justfine Oct 18 05:49:28 hmm. Ever thought about using WPA? Besides from being more secure, it means you don't have to mess around with hex nonsense :P Oct 18 05:49:44 other legacy devices in the network prevents that Oct 18 05:49:51 but yes, that has been considered Oct 18 05:49:52 ah :/ Oct 18 05:50:09 what's irritating is I can't bring it back up to the same level I had a few hours ago before the flash Oct 18 05:50:34 johnx: happy birthday however old you are :P Oct 18 05:51:07 GRRR card reader doesn't like SDHC Oct 18 05:55:18 package is claimed as incompatible @#R$@#%$%@$#%@ Oct 18 05:55:28 dpkg -i it Oct 18 05:59:09 hey, does anyone know if there are any RX-48 images here http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php Oct 18 05:59:18 thanks Oct 18 06:13:22 qwerty12, thanks :D Oct 18 06:13:48 :D Oct 18 06:16:03 think I found the problem... there is a bug with netmasks if DHCP is not used Oct 18 06:20:10 anybody from Berlin here? is there a shop there where the N810 is sold? Oct 18 06:25:28 hello? Oct 18 06:29:03 hi Oct 18 06:30:16 i was wondering if anyone has heard of the flash player upgrade for the n810? Oct 18 06:31:17 there isn't one Oct 18 06:31:38 too bad i really appreciate the device u a user? Oct 18 06:33:07 yup Oct 18 06:33:14 you mean flash 10, right? Oct 18 06:33:47 anybody here use ldap? Oct 18 06:33:54 i was just wondering what cn stood for in the conf Oct 18 06:34:20 common name Oct 18 06:34:28 no i meant the nokia n810...but i use flash 10 under unbutu Oct 18 06:34:42 so in the slapd.conf .. Oct 18 06:34:48 rootdn "cn=Manager,dc=rancorous,dc=net" Oct 18 06:35:01 what is that the common name of? would that be the equal of a login? Oct 18 06:35:08 or would that be a host name? Oct 18 06:36:27 are the network config (IP address, etc) still stored in gconf? Oct 18 06:36:42 yep Oct 18 06:37:09 know what's the path? poking in /system/osso/connectivity didn't seem to show anything Oct 18 06:38:03 Hmm, looked in IAP? Ip settings are tied to a profile Oct 18 06:38:16 let me look again Oct 18 06:39:08 louie_, flash 9 is the latest for n810. the n810 will probably never get flash 10 Oct 18 06:39:10 ah I see it Oct 18 06:39:25 anybody from Berlin here? is there a shop there where the N810 is sold? Oct 18 06:39:41 johnx thanks Oct 18 06:40:16 leist i bought my n810 on amazon.com Oct 18 06:40:26 kleist...sorry Oct 18 06:40:45 louie_: but i'm SOO impatient ;-) Oct 18 06:41:05 what is the new stuff' name which is supposed to replace DSP Gateway in the upcoming NIT? Oct 18 06:41:23 kleist i understand...but i live in st. louis, mo usa Oct 18 06:41:31 louie_: or should i wait for the new maemo 5 device? Oct 18 06:42:03 zap, OpenMAX Oct 18 06:42:10 someone has got to have encountered this before Oct 18 06:42:15 louie_: but that won't come until spring, eh? Oct 18 06:42:33 louie_: s/until/before/ Oct 18 06:42:34 kleist i bieve so Oct 18 06:42:39 :-( Oct 18 06:43:24 GAN800: OpenMAX is ARM-side? Oct 18 06:43:33 well thanks to all i need to get my sleep....good night Oct 18 06:44:51 I was meaning, DSP-side, I have read somewhere DSP gateway is going to be replaced by another "DSP something" Oct 18 06:46:07 is there a shell script that still gets runned whenever a network connection goes up? Oct 18 06:47:30 ds3: /etc/network/if-up.d/ Oct 18 06:47:34 place your script there Oct 18 06:48:03 zap, does that actually get run on the tablet? Oct 18 06:48:12 thanks... this bug is irritating Oct 18 06:48:30 johnx: given that the proxy is set from there, should be Oct 18 06:48:30 johnx: don't think so. I don't think icd even uses if up Oct 18 06:48:43 Hrm, fair point actually Oct 18 06:48:58 If that doesn't do it, dbus-scripts Oct 18 06:49:07 ^what he said^ Oct 18 06:49:31 he said no, then yes Oct 18 06:49:47 and finally maybe Oct 18 06:49:49 well if it doesn't work, then try dbus-scripts Oct 18 06:49:50 all I want is a proper netmask setting Oct 18 06:50:03 whats wrong with it? Oct 18 06:50:11 the netmask is fetched from dhcp Oct 18 06:50:15 it is ignored. I have a wireless network with static IP's Oct 18 06:50:18 you will want to set it up properly :) Oct 18 06:50:37 so like all the other versions, I tell it 10.x.x.x with a netmask 255.255.255.0 Oct 18 06:51:06 after an hour of suspecting all sorts of problems, a ifconfig shows it thinking it is using a 255.0.0.0 netmask @#%@#$@#$@ Oct 18 06:51:38 since you're using a non-standard netmask, the DHCP must tell the client about it Oct 18 06:51:41 does it? Oct 18 06:52:04 this is a static network, no DHCP Oct 18 06:52:20 um Oct 18 06:52:49 does NIT GUI allow specifying the static netmask? Oct 18 06:52:55 yes Oct 18 06:53:00 and its ignored? Oct 18 06:53:06 and I verified with gconftool-2 that it is as I set it Oct 18 06:53:12 aha Oct 18 06:53:13 and yes, it is ignored...hence the claim it is a bug! Oct 18 06:53:19 fill a bug report then :) Oct 18 06:53:27 and pray it gets spotted... Oct 18 06:53:37 and make noise on mailing list :) Oct 18 06:53:43 my N800 is a production/daily use device; I need it working now. bugs can happen later Oct 18 06:54:16 sure, one does not affect other possibilities Oct 18 06:54:31 this upgrade to diablo is getting painful Oct 18 06:54:57 while it was "silly" to watch it happen, i think i prefer the glib (or whatever) bug report flame war vs the black hole that is the maemo/nokia bridge... Oct 18 06:54:59 this used to work with chinook? Oct 18 06:55:04 yep Oct 18 06:55:17 OS2008 (chinook), OS2007, OS2006 (770) Oct 18 06:55:25 same network, works out of the box Oct 18 06:55:41 Goddamn icd2 Oct 18 06:56:29 im tempted to say that your a bit young to be using such language, qwerty12 ;) Oct 18 06:56:44 t_s_o: I've said worse, feel free to check the logs ;P Oct 18 06:57:17 heh, i suspect i was a foul mouth to be around those years myself so... Oct 18 06:57:37 i say its better to vent verbally the physically... Oct 18 06:59:00 hi what file is the one that has all the users accounts Oct 18 06:59:37 That reminds me, any idea why the tablet doesn't shadow passwords by default? Oct 18 07:00:03 because its a device, not a server? Oct 18 07:00:31 True. I just realised how stupid that sounded when there is only 2 users by default and a method to get root :) Oct 18 07:01:19 and no listening daemons by default iirc... Oct 18 07:02:33 heh, would have been fun if one could use kexec on the tablet :P Oct 18 07:02:44 qwerty12: s/and a method/and no method/ Oct 18 07:02:55 zap: rd mode Oct 18 07:03:03 t_s_o: yeah :D Oct 18 07:03:06 *by default* :) Oct 18 07:03:29 True, but it's there :) Oct 18 07:03:41 * qwerty12 goes and reads up on socket programming Oct 18 07:03:49 hmm, im tempted to try out that hibernation use of kexec at some point Oct 18 07:04:53 jza, /etc/passwd Oct 18 07:05:02 johnx, thanks I fix it now Oct 18 07:05:11 I wanted to use bash by default instead of busy box Oct 18 07:10:22 * moontiger sneezes Oct 18 07:10:43 Hello to you too :) Oct 18 07:10:51 heh sorry ... hi :) Oct 18 07:11:16 Hehe, hi Oct 18 07:12:00 is icd2 open ? Oct 18 07:12:13 Nope, closed :/ Oct 18 07:12:17 Same as icd1 Oct 18 07:12:17 great Oct 18 07:12:38 * moontiger sighs Oct 18 07:13:08 so guys... im moving back to europe very soon and i have a few questions Oct 18 07:13:35 are any of you in europe? Oct 18 07:13:54 yipee duct tape hack works Oct 18 07:14:27 moontiger: im tempted to say yes, but then sometimes i feel that norway is neither here nor there :P Oct 18 07:14:37 heh funny :) Oct 18 07:14:43 * qwerty12 is in the UK Oct 18 07:15:00 so whats the best cellphone company to go with? Oct 18 07:15:24 anyone except att Oct 18 07:15:33 att sucks donkey balls i hate them Oct 18 07:15:36 moontiger: Contract? Oct 18 07:15:46 yes i guess ... is there a huge difference? Oct 18 07:16:09 I've never been on a contract, having no credit card. I top up :) Oct 18 07:16:34 so things i need to do are : send mms + sms and unlimited data Oct 18 07:16:56 im looking at a nokia 6220 Oct 18 07:17:12 my blackjack wont connect to european 3g frequencies Oct 18 07:35:04 moontiger: i'm living in Berlin Oct 18 07:35:21 moontiger: very content with O2 Oct 18 07:35:26 really? Oct 18 07:35:40 here we have unlimited data plans and such ... do you guys have that? Oct 18 07:35:47 moontiger: sure Oct 18 07:36:05 moontiger: which country are you going to? Oct 18 07:37:04 well im moving to spain Oct 18 07:37:06 madrid Oct 18 07:37:14 but i will be moving around Oct 18 07:37:52 and you guys dont pay for incoming calls right? Oct 18 07:38:00 O2 is owned by the spanish Telefonica, so I guess there are similar flat rate data plans there Oct 18 07:38:05 oh no Oct 18 07:38:12 that's so stupid Oct 18 07:39:14 heh i know but u get used to it after a while Oct 18 07:39:21 so incoming calls are free? Oct 18 07:39:35 of course Oct 18 07:39:47 so happy to be going back to civilization :) Oct 18 07:39:49 unless you're abroad Oct 18 07:40:07 if im on the road i use skype or gizmo over wifi Oct 18 07:40:16 here in germany, O2 has a flate rate data plan for 25 Euro/month Oct 18 07:40:38 perfect ... and i can bluetooth to my nokia n810 and use the connection for that too? Oct 18 07:40:39 here in Canada that won't get you 5mb of data Oct 18 07:40:45 but there's a catch Oct 18 07:40:49 ? Oct 18 07:40:50 no VOIP Oct 18 07:41:00 kleist: will they know? Oct 18 07:41:02 they block it at the packet level yes? Oct 18 07:41:08 no idea Oct 18 07:41:11 over ssh? Oct 18 07:41:16 they do the same in south africa Oct 18 07:41:35 meh i can always find a coffee shop for free wifi for that Oct 18 07:41:59 and after 10 GB/month, they trottle the speed to 64 kbps Oct 18 07:42:11 errrrrrrrrr wow well thats ok then Oct 18 07:42:11 but 10 GB is much Oct 18 07:42:27 cos i cant imagine dnlding 10gb / month on my nokia or my fone Oct 18 07:42:57 is that 25 euros a month on contract? Oct 18 07:42:59 well, i don't yet have an N810 Oct 18 07:43:05 moontiger: yes Oct 18 07:43:14 and what does the voice part cost? Oct 18 07:43:14 moontiger: http://o2online.de/nw/active/laptop/tarife/packl/index.html?nidx=1 Oct 18 07:43:19 but it's in German Oct 18 07:43:23 ahhhhhh Oct 18 07:43:33 ich nich spraken deutch Oct 18 07:43:34 there are so many plans Oct 18 07:43:37 as u can see Oct 18 07:43:39 :| Oct 18 07:45:03 well at least o2 is all over europe yes? Oct 18 07:45:52 i'm paying a minimum of 5€/month, voice calls to fixed-line phones are 3 cents/min. Oct 18 07:46:03 to cell phones 19c Oct 18 07:46:14 but of course incoming is free ... Oct 18 07:46:20 * moontiger writes that down Oct 18 07:46:20 mmm Oct 18 07:46:39 of course? :) in north america it's not free :/ Oct 18 07:46:42 here in the land of the free they arent free Oct 18 07:46:51 it's so stupid Oct 18 07:46:54 I didn't put any money on my payg phone for 999 days and they cut me off Oct 18 07:46:56 u pay incoming the same as outgoing Oct 18 07:46:56 stupid crtc and their lack of competition Oct 18 07:46:59 how much, typically? Oct 18 07:47:07 You pay for incoming calls? Oct 18 07:47:09 30c min Oct 18 07:47:11 well i have a tmobile plan Oct 18 07:47:22 gosh, thats gross Oct 18 07:47:26 yep Oct 18 07:47:35 i get 600 anytime mins and unlimited nights and weekends (after 9pm) Oct 18 07:47:39 also for incoming voice mail? Oct 18 07:47:52 and that costs me $85 per month with *unlimited* data Oct 18 07:48:01 * kleist needs a shop in Berlin which sells N810 Oct 18 07:48:17 unlimited data isnt unlimited at all and there is not much 3g network here Oct 18 07:48:32 kleist, i got mine from amazon Oct 18 07:48:48 3g is in almost all cities here Oct 18 07:48:55 * moontiger turns up the trance Oct 18 07:49:00 wow really?? Oct 18 07:49:08 i so cant wait to leave here Oct 18 07:49:11 "old europe" Oct 18 07:49:13 6yrs has been too long Oct 18 07:49:14 he he Oct 18 07:49:25 so you're actually from Spain? Oct 18 07:49:35 english ... from london ... but i travel Oct 18 07:49:54 the states have changed much lately, i'm afraid Oct 18 07:50:01 lived in cape town, chicago, new york, san francisco, madrid, milan and a few others Oct 18 07:50:05 paranoia everywhere Oct 18 07:50:09 yes it sucks Oct 18 07:50:17 * moontiger wants obama to win Oct 18 07:50:30 obama, mccain, no difference Oct 18 07:50:36 yes there is Oct 18 07:50:47 besides colour, which really is nothing to base an election off Oct 18 07:50:48 hello: how do i get the 2gb internal flash memory card? to be mounted inside n810? thanks Oct 18 07:50:49 nothing important Oct 18 07:51:02 red red wine Oct 18 07:51:03 doc|home, i completely disagree Oct 18 07:51:09 neither are going to end the war on terror, neither have *any* clue about the economy Oct 18 07:51:15 jagernot, it sould be mounted by default always Oct 18 07:51:15 but im way to tired to have that discussion now Oct 18 07:51:24 both voted for fisa, both voted for bailout. Screw them both. Oct 18 07:51:29 bef0rd: i dont see it at all :( Oct 18 07:51:30 ahhhhhhhhh well ur right there Oct 18 07:51:34 unless you plugit in on your computer Oct 18 07:51:48 then i agree with you Oct 18 07:52:11 nsa wiretap is outrageous ... bail out also Oct 18 07:52:20 plus may other thngs they both ok'd Oct 18 07:52:21 see, same on anything important Oct 18 07:52:23 jagernot, is it a new device? Oct 18 07:52:24 yes Oct 18 07:52:31 apologies Oct 18 07:52:37 bef0rd: yes bought it yesterday Oct 18 07:52:37 thats why im leaving Oct 18 07:52:41 i had enough Oct 18 07:52:51 really, who gives a crap about abortion, or healthcare, it's not like the government can even afford to pay for healthcare any more than people Oct 18 07:52:58 right Oct 18 07:53:05 im sick of faith based pilitics Oct 18 07:53:17 politics too Oct 18 07:53:21 hehe Oct 18 07:53:33 anyways its late here and im tired Oct 18 07:53:36 off to bed for me Oct 18 07:53:41 thnx kleist :) Oct 18 07:53:45 night doc|home Oct 18 07:53:56 have fun over here Oct 18 07:53:58 night moontiger Oct 18 07:53:59 take care Oct 18 07:54:08 be in spain soon ... dec 1st i leave here Oct 18 07:54:10 :) Oct 18 08:01:33 hello i got my n810 yesterday, i am trying to get the 2gb internal card show up in n810 itself. any ideas? thanks. Oct 18 08:04:01 hey jagernot Oct 18 08:04:08 do you have a computer near? Oct 18 08:04:20 em Oct 18 08:04:32 duh obviously you do Oct 18 08:04:50 does the internal card shows up when you plug the n810? Oct 18 08:04:54 show* Oct 18 08:08:26 the card should appear on the file manager as 'internal memory card' Oct 18 08:09:02 if it's not appearing on the n810 nor the computer it could be a problem with the file system, you might need to repartition it Oct 18 08:09:52 I would check for errors on /var/log/message Oct 18 08:10:07 well now i have another problem Oct 18 08:10:10 Hmm, should I compile against libncurses or libncursesw? Oct 18 08:10:11 my n810 wont power on :( Oct 18 08:10:16 (for the tablet) Oct 18 08:10:42 jagernot, is it on a reboot cycle, or not even turning on? Oct 18 08:13:57 i thought the battery has run out but i plug the charger and the charging light isnt coming up either :( Oct 18 08:16:25 :/ Oct 18 08:17:56 qwerty12: libncursesw should be Unicode or something like that Oct 18 08:18:18 zap: Ah, ok, thanks Oct 18 08:18:20 qwerty12: libncurses5 which is installed by default on tablet contains only libncurses.so Oct 18 08:18:39 I'll stick to libncurses5 then, thanks Oct 18 08:19:18 (Though, cfdisk is looking better with the one linked to libncursesw. Though that could be because that one is from util-linux-ng) Oct 18 08:21:08 my tablet wont turn on...what should i do.. :( Oct 18 08:21:44 Ah, I started one without full screen mode and the other with full screen. Ah well, cfdisk is ready to be uploaded to extras. Oct 18 09:18:08 * Stskeeps pokes the coffee machine Oct 18 09:18:49 The coffee machine retaliates by spraying Stskeeps with coffee Oct 18 09:19:17 heh, yeah.. those mornings Oct 18 09:20:28 * qwerty12 would like to know where my e2fsprogs build went :p Oct 18 09:40:13 qwerty12: scary fact - powerlaunch/powered compiled with only 1-2 changes on deblet Oct 18 09:40:28 didn't run yet though Oct 18 09:41:04 Stskeeps: Nice, hehe. I'll probably switch to powerlaunch when all the bugs are ironed out Oct 18 09:41:26 (the mpd pocket mode pwns) Oct 18 10:04:32 * qwerty12 finally got parted & cfdisk in diablo & chinook extras-devel. sfdisk haters, knock yourself out. I'll attempt work on "css-adblocking" Oct 18 10:07:53 woop Oct 18 10:07:57 one less dependancy i guess Oct 18 10:15:14 qwerty12: is it built in extras-devel yet? Oct 18 10:15:55 Stskeeps: In extras, I guess you mean. No, I haven't promoted it yet. Oct 18 10:16:02 no, i meant extras-devel :P Oct 18 10:16:19 but it is, just checked Oct 18 10:16:26 Lol, of course :P. free stuff always goes to extras-devel first :) Oct 18 10:16:37 qwerty12: works great Oct 18 10:17:03 Cool, thanks Oct 18 10:18:57 i'll pull my cfdisk hack then Oct 18 10:22:47 if you manage to enter roxterm too i'd be delighted ;) Oct 18 10:23:14 K, I'll see what I can do. Oct 18 10:23:56 you should really set up a donation paypal :P Oct 18 10:24:46 I usually do stuff with stuff that other people have put out for free, it would be immoral taking money :) Oct 18 10:25:01 oh, donations are for donations, not paying for your stuff ;) Oct 18 10:27:20 qwerty12: the main problem about maemo porting is the fact that gtkmm is significantly sized down and such isn't it? Oct 18 10:27:55 like, --enable-api-properties=no and such Oct 18 10:28:07 i wonder if there would be porting interest in having a mm with more properties => easier porting Oct 18 10:28:20 Stskeeps: I wouldn't know tbh, I'm more of a straight compiler :/. Oct 18 10:28:26 hehe Oct 18 10:28:36 Though it would be nice to have some newer libs :) Oct 18 10:28:59 oh that's neat, parted takes commands on command line Oct 18 10:30:11 qwerty12, thanks for the help on ITT, gonna try your solution :) Oct 18 10:30:47 VDVsx: No problems, hope it works for you! I'm really liking the look of your program :) Oct 18 10:33:19 what is "DTX" in context of gstreamer DSP plugins? Oct 18 10:33:41 "Use DTX and send CN frames" - how to understand? Oct 18 11:25:25 qwert Oct 18 11:25:41 me? Oct 18 11:25:57 qwerty12_N800, with your solution the system always ask for a passw Oct 18 11:26:43 qwerty12_N800, if I do sudo bluemaemo in the x-terminal, the system ask for a passw Oct 18 11:27:12 it shouldn't do because sudo allowed that program to run w/out a password. Oct 18 11:27:20 hmm Oct 18 11:27:22 what about sudo /usr/sbin/bluemaemo or where it is? Oct 18 11:28:18 Stskeeps, the same Oct 18 11:28:24 odd Oct 18 11:28:58 did you run update-sudoers? Oct 18 11:29:46 qwerty12_N800, yap I put this in postins and make a echo message to be sure that the script exec Oct 18 11:31:37 is it in /etc/sudoers? :P Oct 18 11:32:21 Stskeeps, /etc/sudoers.d/ Oct 18 11:32:33 yeah, but is it in /etc/sudoers which is the result of update-sudoers? :P Oct 18 11:34:43 Stskeeps, ah ok Oct 18 11:35:07 Stskeeps, no, so the problem is in the update :D Oct 18 11:38:28 * lcuk has a sore head :( Oct 18 11:38:39 * Stskeeps passes lcuk bacon Oct 18 11:39:06 * lcuk laughs then spreads the cold bacon strips across his forehead Oct 18 11:39:53 lcuk: cooked or raw? Oct 18 11:40:15 well raw obviously, you wouldnt see me puttin cooked bacon on my head would you? Oct 18 11:40:43 no, that would be crazy Oct 18 11:40:49 thought so. BTW, can i change to a fixed width font in the liqbase reader? Oct 18 11:41:35 technially yes, but https://garage.maemo.org/pm/task.php?func=detailtask&project_task_id=708&group_id=716&group_project_id=1319 says it all Oct 18 11:41:45 ah. tnx. Oct 18 11:42:49 background system works with it, and i used to have a command line param, but i hated that and no1 has asked for a couple of months (until you) Oct 18 11:43:19 hm.. it doesn't actually say very much. just like reading RFCs in it, but the ASCII images are wonky Oct 18 11:43:52 ok, put a line of the itt thread or just say there "i want font selection to include fixed width fonts" Oct 18 11:44:09 still, liqbase is very, very cool, so I can live with it Oct 18 11:44:23 will do. Oct 18 11:44:23 this morning i probably wont remember too much, ive got a throbbin headache and feel dire Oct 18 11:44:41 well done. that's the way saturdays should be. Oct 18 11:45:08 different reason thou, i could cope with a hangover, this is migraine Oct 18 11:45:14 bummer Oct 18 11:45:37 m mmm Oct 18 11:46:37 i just entered some nokia innovator competition, they said it was open for all kinds of apps and platforms, but they rejected my .deb \@/ Oct 18 11:46:46 heh Oct 18 11:46:58 i uploaded a file called "empty_file.py Oct 18 11:47:04 qwerty12_N800, Stskeeps , thanks for the help, it works now :) Oct 18 11:47:26 this was the reko thing or something from openmoko? Oct 18 11:47:42 Stskeeps, yap Oct 18 11:47:51 sounds good, looking forward to seeign it Oct 18 11:47:58 VDVsx, cool, i'm patiently waiting for the deb :) Oct 18 11:48:33 lcuk, to show your hate, upload my http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/nokia_suck_dick_with_their_legal_bullshit.png :p Oct 18 11:49:08 qwerty12_N800, probably I will release it in a few hours, have to finish a profile yet :) Oct 18 11:49:24 VDVsx, Cool! Thanks :) Oct 18 11:49:48 * qwerty12_N800 prepares bluetooth connection to brother's laptop *g* Oct 18 11:50:13 "this is your computer speaking. give your charger to qwerty12." Oct 18 11:50:32 VDVsx, is this your very cool app remote control app thingy Oct 18 11:50:52 Stskeeps, lol, probably a few weeks ago :p Oct 18 11:51:34 http://liqbase.net/liqremote_tiny.JPG <<< my very first maemo app (written in python) Oct 18 11:52:35 nice, what was it intended for? Oct 18 11:52:49 i use it whenever we are watchin tv Oct 18 11:52:58 it drives me batty though, cos its bright white and awful Oct 18 11:53:04 it needs liqbase theming Oct 18 11:53:05 hehe Oct 18 11:53:11 but it works.. Oct 18 11:53:17 lcuk, yap, lol Oct 18 11:53:33 it talks via tcp to a VISUAL BASIC server sitting on my desktop Oct 18 11:53:57 which does highly complex sendkeys upon command and makes mplayer work as expected Oct 18 11:54:17 * lcuk apologises for swearing Oct 18 11:57:05 VDVsx, does yours operate via bt alone, or could it replace that ^ Oct 18 11:59:31 lcuk, all the operations are BT based, because it use the BT profile for bluetooth keyboards and mouses, you want to change BT for other communication,like wifi ? Oct 18 12:00:19 ahhhh ok Oct 18 12:00:26 that would still work i assume Oct 18 12:00:40 the windows machine i have hear doesnt have bt though Oct 18 12:00:45 bright white actually takes less power on LCD Oct 18 12:00:55 but it hurts your eyes Oct 18 12:00:57 black screen on LCD draws more energy Oct 18 12:01:08 so? Oct 18 12:01:08 who cares about eyes, when we talk about battery Oct 18 12:01:24 purely asthetic Oct 18 12:01:35 then use a nice canola-like theme ;) Oct 18 12:01:37 lcuk, it only work with BT, a BT usb cost around 10 € :D Oct 18 12:01:51 or that new SVG-based thingy some guy posted on maemo-devel Oct 18 12:01:54 mmmm zap, canola isnt as fast as liqbase :) Oct 18 12:02:12 that SVG-based GUI is python-based Oct 18 12:02:16 right what you need :) Oct 18 12:02:23 yeah i know what it is Oct 18 12:02:31 but svg is heavy Oct 18 12:02:32 and slow Oct 18 12:02:42 we spoke at the summit and have done since Oct 18 12:02:59 * Stskeeps wonders where his stylus went Oct 18 12:03:04 its a very interesting thing :) and it will continue to evolve Oct 18 12:03:11 it would be fast if SVG would be hw accelerating :) Oct 18 12:03:16 *accelerated Oct 18 12:03:28 yes, I liked the demo Oct 18 12:03:40 zap, my vectors are already perfectly fast enough and i can do anything i want with them Oct 18 12:03:50 and i can say the same about png and jpeg Oct 18 12:04:07 well, I mean polygons not vectors Oct 18 12:04:07 Stskeeps, read the top few lines of this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2008-02-29.log.html Oct 18 12:04:43 svg is full of polygons and that kind of shit... and they aren't even single-color (most of the time) Oct 18 12:04:50 lcuk: hehe.. just found mine again. even though i think my missus has mine in her car somewhere Oct 18 12:05:12 the other one Oct 18 12:05:18 lol tracy took my 810 out ONCE in the car with her, and she lost the fluffin case on that day Oct 18 12:05:18 that SVG GUI has the potential to compete with Adobe Flash Oct 18 12:07:24 zap, of course it does, theres many potential killers out there for lots of things - but just because someone uses svg to make widgets doesnt mean its gonna replace flash - theres a LOT more to actionscript than just drawing Oct 18 12:07:48 for flash replacements, wouldnt microsofts' silverlight be closer Oct 18 12:08:00 lcuk, I tend not to call the people I love "cow" Oct 18 12:08:40 heh Oct 18 12:09:00 and i tend not to call her that often either, and certainly never to her face :D :P Oct 18 12:09:46 SVG can contain javascript inside Oct 18 12:09:50 but javascript sucks Oct 18 12:09:57 * qwerty12_N800 could imagine lcuk getting slapped if he did :p Oct 18 12:10:25 heh Oct 18 12:10:40 aim off havin a shower anyway, back later Oct 18 12:12:55 * inz ponders how a cow can slap, with it's tail? Oct 18 12:12:59 the bacon will come off Oct 18 12:13:12 hah Oct 18 12:14:01 or butter Oct 18 12:19:36 lol Oct 18 12:19:48 fnordianslip_, your font thing, thx for posting there Oct 18 12:19:55 one thing, what about line wrapping Oct 18 12:20:18 look on the very first video, i show kinetic text - it uses fixed width font and doesnt wrap line Oct 18 12:20:22 is that what you expect Oct 18 12:20:27 no probs. thanks for considering it. the RFCs are pretty well formatted, and the zoom in/out works nicely Oct 18 12:25:19 lcuk: ok. i see you scrolling through code in the video. that's why i like 80 char limits on code lines ;-) the RFCs have some tight guidelines on text formatting, and some even have state machine diagrams in ASCII. All should be well, at least for my purpose. Oct 18 12:26:18 zap: I have just heard from quite a high level guy at work that JavaScript is the future! Oct 18 12:26:54 Apparently, a shitload of JavaScript books is being bought and very soon all the software will be programmed in javaScript Oct 18 12:26:56 fnordianslip_, ok, ill try to find an intuitive way to let you have your cake Oct 18 12:27:09 bacon cake? Oct 18 12:27:26 well RST38h there was a lot of news recently about javascript optimizations and serious boosts Oct 18 12:27:27 mmmmmmmmmmmm Oct 18 12:27:58 lcuk: yea, right =) Oct 18 12:28:06 the bacon didn't come off my head in the shower cos i use fixodent Oct 18 12:28:08 * RST38h remembers the same being said about Java, btw Oct 18 12:28:21 "Mighty Java JIT will save us!" Oct 18 12:28:53 "And you do not need to allocate any memory - language and its garbgage collector will take care of you!" Oct 18 12:28:54 is it possible for flies to emerge from a new sealed packet of tobacco? Oct 18 12:29:11 (or, if they don't, operating system will by issuing a SIGKILL ;)) Oct 18 12:29:26 lcuk: that's from the gum in your hair after the heavy drinking yesterday Oct 18 12:29:26 :P Oct 18 12:29:29 lcuk: yes, if their parents laid eggs there. Happy? ;) Oct 18 12:29:45 lcuk: .. it's called flavour Oct 18 12:29:47 lcuk: only if they were packed with the tobacco or if the pack wasn't properly sealed :) Oct 18 12:29:55 it was sealed properly Oct 18 12:30:15 They laid eggs before the tobacco was collected Oct 18 12:30:17 * qwerty12_N800 misread flies as files >, Oct 18 12:30:18 but i opened it about 36h ago and just opened it again and one flew out Oct 18 12:30:22 bit odd.. Oct 18 12:30:42 flies like their nicotine too Oct 18 12:30:47 ive seen it a couple of times with this baccy Oct 18 12:30:50 * lcuk changes brand Oct 18 12:31:00 wise move Oct 18 12:31:09 BBQ flies Oct 18 12:31:14 lcuk, better quit completely Oct 18 12:31:35 lcuk, you'll code more aggressively for a couple of months or so Oct 18 12:31:44 and rage on wife and kids, too Oct 18 12:31:45 :P Oct 18 12:32:05 you will put on some weight too. Oct 18 12:32:13 but it's all for your good Oct 18 12:32:34 lcuk, slaughtering bugs is more fun than just fixing, right? Oct 18 12:32:55 hell no, i would get through about half a rage (like in star wars when Han chases storm troopers down corridor) then be pushed back by tracy. you would see me runnin like forrest gump! Oct 18 12:33:35 it's not that bad. the first week is hell, then it becomes more manageable. Oct 18 12:33:43 "Stop, Gary, stoooooppppppp!" Oct 18 12:33:47 inz, nahhh i prefer to try not to include bugs in my packaging Oct 18 12:37:08 How about breeding them in there? Oct 18 12:37:10 zap, if i uninstall bash2 (to replace it with your bash3), will the shell be set back to busybox's ash? Oct 18 12:37:51 * RST38h finally made goddamn piece of MIPS assembly compile BTW Oct 18 12:38:06 Still ends up with a core dump but we are working on it =) Oct 18 12:39:57 RST38h: how high is your % of curses vs code for the MIPS stuff now? :P Oct 18 12:41:31 Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.1/free/d/dbus/libdbus-1-3_1.0.2-0osso14_armel.deb 401 Unauthorized [IP: 80.67.86.16 80] Oct 18 12:41:36 oh come on nokia Oct 18 12:42:15 They don't like you :p Oct 18 12:42:23 * qwerty12_N800 wgetted it fine Oct 18 12:42:28 hmm, i kinda recall there being a home applet able to show the internal temperature of the tablet, anyone know if its still around? Oct 18 12:42:37 omweather Oct 18 12:42:49 khertan had one too Oct 18 12:42:50 .. internal? Oct 18 12:43:14 * qwerty12_N800 also made conky display it too Oct 18 12:43:43 qwerty12_N800: omweather is kinda bulky for that simple use, and dont allow me to strip away all the rest... Oct 18 12:43:48 Sts: 1/10 Oct 18 12:44:00 but, again, working on it Oct 18 12:44:48 Sts: OMAP2 has an thermoresistor inside Oct 18 12:44:54 t_s_o, homeinternaltemp, should be in extras Oct 18 12:44:59 ah Oct 18 12:45:44 qwerty12_N800: i dont see it in app manager... Oct 18 12:46:09 grr, chinook extras then :/ Oct 18 12:46:56 anyone with a 770 who had the "No connections availiable" problem? Oct 18 12:47:25 t_s_o, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/chinook/free/h/homeinternaltemp/homeinternaltemp-0.0.6-1_armel.deb Oct 18 12:47:53 Stskeeps, i've had it on n800 when initfs was mismatched Oct 18 12:48:11 mm, this is a entire reflash though Oct 18 12:49:24 was g_ether part of a standard initfs or how was it? Oct 18 12:49:37 hey everyone! Oct 18 12:50:06 Stskeeps, part of initfs Oct 18 12:50:14 Another bunch of idiots: http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/18/0352235&from=rss Oct 18 12:50:38 who can help me to install maemo sdk? I've gotten errors what I can't understand :( Oct 18 12:50:43 * RST38h asks the great Cthulhu to kill off all the busybodies trumpeting virtual machines Oct 18 12:52:16 nobody? Oct 18 12:52:54 dim0xff: i have odd problems myself making it work too but i'm starting to suspect it's cos i'm apt-getting with amazing speeds Oct 18 12:52:57 :P Oct 18 12:53:07 and akamai just filters me Oct 18 12:53:44 amazing speed? too fast or too slow? :)) Oct 18 12:53:48 too fast Oct 18 12:54:15 RST38h, nothin technically wrong with virtual machines, however they work best on big iron to allow scaling on demand Oct 18 12:54:37 * lcuk hits vmware with a big stick Oct 18 12:54:43 my connection's speed is little slowly =) Oct 18 12:55:25 133mb in 30 secs :P Oct 18 12:56:00 lcuk: Aside from not having a point Oct 18 12:56:18 I have a problem with awk.... "awk: fatal: could not find groups: Invalid argument" may be anyone has gotten the same error?.... Oct 18 12:56:41 Actually, virtual machines are an absolute godsend in many uses. Less so in others, of course - like any technology, they're good for somethings. Oct 18 12:56:58 Stskeeps, I want it!! :)) I have just 256kbps Oct 18 12:57:12 However, the article RST38h quoted looks seriously dubious :-) Oct 18 12:57:48 dim0xff: hmm. Did you use a regex with a grouping construct in it? Oct 18 12:58:14 I just install sdk... "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-sdk-dev" Oct 18 12:58:27 ah. Oct 18 12:58:57 Sounds like an awk script that's broken, then - probably something about your particular install it wasn't written to cope with Oct 18 12:59:11 but this error in postinstall script: "df -k /dev/shm | tail -1 | awk '{if ( ~ /%/) { print } else { print } }'" Oct 18 13:03:38 package osso-af-startup_1.66-5_all.deb Oct 18 13:04:26 in postinst script after the comment # Check for available space if we are using devshm Oct 18 13:06:42 ccooke: I can think if no situation where virtual machines are useful nowadays Oct 18 13:06:59 except as means to secure funding of course Oct 18 13:07:15 RST38h: Singularity Oct 18 13:07:23 (OS) Oct 18 13:07:41 Stskeeps: Singularity (noun) - An euphemism for vagina. Oct 18 13:08:00 RST38h: Okay. Being careful here... are you defining a VM as something like a virtual server, say, or something like the JVM? Oct 18 13:08:11 RST38h: Unfortunately both have the same name :-) Oct 18 13:08:23 ccooke: Funnily, neither is of any use Oct 18 13:08:56 Virtual servers basically solve the Very Important Problem of running multiple copies of IIS on the same machine Oct 18 13:09:20 This Problem is much better solved by moving from Windows to Unix and running multiple copies of Apache Oct 18 13:09:22 RST38h: Out of interest, what real-world experience do you have to make this claim? Oct 18 13:09:47 ccooke: How can you have experience to back a claim that something is of no use? Oct 18 13:10:03 It is a negative statement (like "there is no God") not a positive one Oct 18 13:10:05 RST38h: easily! Oct 18 13:10:33 RST38h: you can have tried it in real-world environments and be able to say - for each use you tried it - that there was a much better solution. Oct 18 13:10:49 and, if people agree with you, then you will have proven your point. Oct 18 13:10:58 ccooke: Ok, for each use of a VM I have seen so far, there was a better solution. Oct 18 13:11:09 Here you go :) Oct 18 13:11:23 RST38h: and what were those uses? :-) Oct 18 13:11:47 ccooke: running multiple web servers on the same hardware Oct 18 13:12:03 Yes, that is a useless use of VMs if that's your reason to use them Oct 18 13:12:16 Do show me some other reason Oct 18 13:12:27 RST38h: What if those VMs need a different default route? ;) Oct 18 13:12:32 it's inefficient, for a start, since a better web server will not require another full copy of the OS :-) Oct 18 13:12:35 [please avoid "running Windows in MacOS" :)] Oct 18 13:12:37 (I've had that need) Oct 18 13:12:59 RST38h: I don't personally do that, but it *is* a use and it *is* useful. And there is no alternate solution. Oct 18 13:13:11 Veggen: not a big deal, you can configure Unix servers to listen on different interfaces Oct 18 13:13:19 (cider is not usable enough and likely never will be) Oct 18 13:13:30 ccooke: No alternate solution for WHAT? Oct 18 13:13:33 is there some alternate name for repository.maemo.org that doesn't use akamai? Oct 18 13:14:06 Veggen: On linux, look up iproute2. It's a lovely thing - you can have multiple named routing tables, selecting which one applies by a set of rules with all the power of a stateful firewall. Oct 18 13:14:42 RST38h: you said to avoid running windows on OSX. I pointed out that it's a use and avoiding it is an admission that VMs *have* a use ;-) Oct 18 13:14:51 ccooke: I know. But two virtual machines with different default route solved my problem on Solaris. Oct 18 13:15:13 ccooke: Ah, that one...The better solution is to have two computers. Oct 18 13:15:34 ccooke: You can VNC from Apple to Windows if you want to. Oct 18 13:15:39 Another thing: Easy failover for single-point-of-failure-boxes. Oct 18 13:15:55 Veggen: You are not serious, are you? :) Oct 18 13:15:56 RST38h: That's much bulkier. Most of the people who do that, do it on a laptop. Oct 18 13:16:02 and...easier server migration. Oct 18 13:16:10 I mean, you are running multiple VMs on the SAME box. If it dies...well... :) Oct 18 13:16:11 RST38h: carrying around two laptops isn't really viable. Oct 18 13:16:28 ccooke: Keep the one you do not use often at home and connect remotely. Oct 18 13:16:32 RST38h: I have a VM that'll move to another box if the first box dies? Oct 18 13:16:47 Veggen: If you first box dies, VM dies with it Oct 18 13:16:53 RST38h: Then your "two computer" solution breaks down: VMs allow you to do access both *everywhere* Oct 18 13:16:59 Veggen: Unless your VM has magical properties of course Oct 18 13:17:20 ccooke: Well, for me everywhere is where network access is Oct 18 13:17:33 ccooke: It has been this way since around 1996, too. Oct 18 13:17:51 RST38h: That's all very well, but not everyone is you. What's more, many applications people use will not run well over a remote link. Oct 18 13:17:54 RST38h: Sure, but some tasks one can survive downtime for a minute or two.. Oct 18 13:18:05 RST38h: I'd hate to try video editing over a long-distance rdesktop link! Oct 18 13:18:19 RST38h: And there's even systems where it's not supported to run several of them simultaneously. Oct 18 13:19:24 Veggen: In this case, I can just start a backup box and I am done Oct 18 13:19:27 RST38h: Now, the use of VMs I actually *do* work with - professionally - is server farms. Oct 18 13:19:34 RST38h: btw, virtualization also simplifies server migration/upgrades. Even on single-purpose-boxes, we prefer virtualization for that reason alone. Oct 18 13:19:36 Veggen: ""not supported to run Oct 18 13:19:43 +several of them simultaneously" - here you come to the IIS issue :) Oct 18 13:20:18 So, pretty much the only purpose of a VM is to run multiple copies of IIS because Unix stuff does not care how many copies you run (especially in chroot) Oct 18 13:20:29 RST38h: Many of the servers I deal with don't need a full CPUs worht of power but - for security, management, legal or other reasons - must run on physically separate hardware and (often) networks. Oct 18 13:20:52 RST38h: I meant in a more complex system. For example database-type things. (sure, can do RAC and clustered DBs and stuff, but you get my meaning) Oct 18 13:20:54 RST38h: It saves a vast amount of power and money to have every server as a VM. Oct 18 13:21:42 RST38h: At my place, "I can just start a new backup box" just doesn't cut it ;) Oct 18 13:21:54 Veggen: I don't, you can pretty much run multiple db clients on the same cmachine Oct 18 13:22:07 And running multiple db servers on the same machine is going to turn it into maemo.org Oct 18 13:22:22 for instance - at my current employer, we have a large and complex web-based application that requires seven different kinds of server. Most run linux, but some (due to historical reasons) have to be Windows. There's a console app, too, which has a point-and-click windows interface. Oct 18 13:22:24 RST38h: ugh. I now meant in more complex environments. Oct 18 13:22:42 We've moved it all into VMs and dropped the power requirement by 60%. Oct 18 13:22:45 ccooke: Any client who wants security will ask for a separate box Oct 18 13:22:55 ccooke: The rest can run inside chrooted environments Oct 18 13:22:59 RST38h: No. Oct 18 13:23:04 RST38h: that is not how it works. Oct 18 13:23:19 RST38h: chroot is not secure. Oct 18 13:23:23 RST38h: For example the system will only allow one of that kind of DB to run, you can't make redundant pair. So you set up failover-clusters to minimize downtime. Oct 18 13:23:32 If you are telling customers they are getting their own machines and run them inside VMs, you are cheating customers Oct 18 13:23:33 RST38h: and it's not always clients who want security Oct 18 13:23:37 chroot is far from secure :) Oct 18 13:23:57 and no, I didn't mean that the OS doesn't allow it, I meant that the larger system that the DB is part of doesn't allow it. Oct 18 13:24:01 RST38h: we don't allow customers to run their own servers on our systems, for a start Oct 18 13:24:03 Veggen: Two machines. Otherwise, if your machine fails, it takes both VMs Oct 18 13:24:03 http://rafb.net/p/T5Maqi16.html <- this is one of the best comments for a maemo bug Oct 18 13:24:15 RST38h: sure, two machines. Oct 18 13:24:16 RST38h: most server farms nowadays are vm:s, due to easier management Oct 18 13:24:21 RST38h: not all security is applied by clients, you know. Sometimes, companies want to secure their *own* systems. Oct 18 13:24:40 although they claim to be true servers Oct 18 13:24:41 Veggen: three as a minimum, I'd usually say :-) Oct 18 13:24:51 RST38h: But we migrate the full VM instead of just the application on failover. Oct 18 13:24:56 *much* simpler :) Oct 18 13:24:57 ccooke: If you are the one applying security, you will be managing the boxes Oct 18 13:25:05 No need for VMs - it is unrtelated Oct 18 13:25:18 All right, have to go do some chores Oct 18 13:25:32 RST38h: oh, one can always manage without, but it makes a lot of things simpler. Oct 18 13:25:52 RST38h: Different VMs running on the same hypervisor are as good as physically separate Oct 18 13:26:40 RST38h: We run three levels of security. Levels one and two are fine with VMs on the same host, level 3 requires the VMs to be in different host clusters. Oct 18 13:26:46 That's good practice. Oct 18 13:43:05 Free programming ebooks With Direct Links & Request ebooks Here http://request-ebooks.blogspot.com/ Oct 18 13:43:45 kebomix: you should probably be aware that this is a publically logged channel so if you don't want attention by copyright people, this probably isn't the place :) Oct 18 13:57:07 * lcuk goes and reads a deadtree book Oct 18 13:58:44 before i do, who has a jaiku account, and how do i get one Oct 18 14:03:11 oh shit! i fail at being human Oct 18 14:03:19 i can't seem to pass a turing test :( Oct 18 14:03:27 too much beer? Oct 18 14:03:33 i've once been so hungover i forgot how to code Oct 18 14:03:45 had no idea what to type and what it said on screen Oct 18 14:04:12 no, twitter captcha is unreadable Oct 18 14:04:22 ive tried about 30 and they all remain crappy Oct 18 14:04:32 i once forgot my password (which i use ~everywhere with slight modifications) for 2 days Oct 18 14:04:45 only 2 days? Oct 18 14:05:03 that does sound more like drink induced memory lapse ;) Oct 18 14:05:21 you should use liqbase instead of your unreliable brain Oct 18 14:06:35 * lcuk forgets most things unless ive written them down Oct 18 14:16:49 lcuk: it seems a pretty ok app Oct 18 14:16:58 though it crashes all the time :) Oct 18 14:17:35 hola Oct 18 14:18:40 lcuk: i get TTF error while opening font Oct 18 14:20:39 send me the log please Oct 18 14:21:27 oki Oct 18 14:22:25 thats an log from "read a book" Oct 18 14:25:33 where have you sent it? Oct 18 14:26:25 wait a sec Oct 18 14:26:30 i have some problems sending it :) Oct 18 14:27:48 it shouldnt actually have a problem with anything - especially if you managed to get far enough in to read a book (same font, only difference is size..), if it was a missing font ttf problem it should bail right at the start Oct 18 14:28:20 i dont even get to open a book Oct 18 14:28:30 it crashes right after choosing Read a book Oct 18 14:28:55 claws cant send a message... Oct 18 14:29:08 lets try with modest, then :) Oct 18 14:29:19 heh Oct 18 14:32:15 ok Oct 18 14:32:24 i didnt know that my smtp-port is blocked here Oct 18 14:32:33 now it went away (maybe even twice) Oct 18 14:35:06 macoute_, ahhhh you are running the oldest playtest binary arent u Oct 18 14:35:19 or something similar Oct 18 14:35:25 lcuk: the only i got from your webisite? Oct 18 14:35:31 get the latest .deb from http://liqbase.net/ Oct 18 14:35:38 oh, ok :) Oct 18 14:35:39 thanks Oct 18 14:35:53 the menus you have are all the flat colored ones arent they Oct 18 14:36:28 i think i need to cleanup where all the links go, i didnt realise the old stuff was still available so cleanly Oct 18 14:36:44 hiya mek Oct 18 14:36:50 hi lcuk Oct 18 14:37:18 Hi Oct 18 14:41:58 I'm still having trouble connecting a USB keyboard to the N810 in Diablo. It worked fine in Chinook,so I know the cables are good, but I can't get the old usb control program to install - it says it's incompatible. My laptop's down and I really need to type a paper. Oct 18 14:45:46 macoute_, is that version any better for you? Oct 18 14:45:59 and thanks for reminding me to cleanup the files Oct 18 14:45:59 I can't practicality use the built- in keyboard as it took me three minutes to type that small paragraph above. Any help would be appreciated. :) Oct 18 14:46:20 cars__, i havent tried usb keyboard since an initial investigation Oct 18 14:46:46 cars__, as root: echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode Oct 18 14:46:46 i believe you can setup the usb host mode with just an echo command, but not sure on specifics Oct 18 14:46:52 ^^^ Oct 18 14:47:05 right on cue qwerty12_N800 :D Oct 18 14:47:16 hehe :D Oct 18 14:48:32 thanks very much, qwerty12_N800 :) And to get it back so I could connect it to the computer? Oct 18 14:48:59 echo otg > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode :) Oct 18 14:50:56 is there a arora package somewhere? (the browser based on Qt webkit) Oct 18 14:53:12 lcuk: yah, that one is surely working and looking good Oct 18 14:53:26 thought it was a bit odd :) Oct 18 14:53:27 buthow do you do notes? by drawing only? Oct 18 14:53:41 Thanks again, qwerty12_N800 :) Oct 18 14:53:55 No problems :) Oct 18 14:53:57 and is there a pdf-support for books? Oct 18 14:53:59 yes, its a touch screen :) Oct 18 14:54:28 there is. Oct 18 14:55:22 no macoute_ txt only for now, it suits my personal requirements and ive got so many other things to do i cant invest time to become a pdf wiz (like many other things). (replace pdf with many of the other things I've done as proof of concept for now).. Oct 18 14:56:02 i would love to expand on everything, but its a fulltime job for a whole team of people let alone little old me Oct 18 14:57:06 * lcuk accepts patches Oct 18 14:57:07 yeah. i think that app should get some more devs to really make it "ready" as it seems to be a really good app. and fast, too Oct 18 14:58:04 its ready for now, what i wanted to show was the core concepts of a usable touchscreen device. i think yesterday and today are the first days ive not actually opened a code window Oct 18 14:58:52 yeah, the touchscreen functionality is something that nokia should see themselves as its working better than the original ;) Oct 18 14:59:06 (eg. the multitouch) Oct 18 14:59:07 i will be pushing it to extras in a few days as soon as im happy theres no serious glitches and then try to find a way to get more help and time to develop it all further Oct 18 15:00:00 yeah. pdf (or other) support would be great. maybe the authors of fbreader could help? Oct 18 15:00:07 i certainly think im on the right track with everything in it, as I said in the videos, im happy with it so far. Oct 18 15:00:17 you should be Oct 18 15:00:33 macoute_, fbreader handles a lot of other things and i would certainly like to bring fbreaders knowledge and skills into it Oct 18 15:00:34 but of course, more functionality would be great Oct 18 15:00:50 lcuk: have you been in touch with them Oct 18 15:00:51 im still not sure that liqbase itself can handle everything required for fbreader, but its worth looking Oct 18 15:00:52 qwerty12: does flasher overwrite CAL? Oct 18 15:01:08 Stskeeps: Not the linux one to my knowledge but the windows one does Oct 18 15:01:12 ok Oct 18 15:01:29 macoute_, not formally and to be honest i dont know how to start, but at this time its still very much a work in progress Oct 18 15:02:01 http://www.fbreader.org/ :O Oct 18 15:02:42 That's an awesome program, macoute_ . Oct 18 15:03:02 oh no Oct 18 15:03:07 fbreader.org has been hacked :P Oct 18 15:03:09 :O Oct 18 15:03:15 Oh no! Oct 18 15:03:24 bastards Oct 18 15:03:26 though the site does work Oct 18 15:03:33 only the frontpage doesnt Oct 18 15:03:46 http://www.fbreader.org/about.php for example Oct 18 15:04:04 macoute_, yeah i know where they are, look here http://www.fbreader.org/mantis/view.php?id=98 Oct 18 15:04:07 read my comment at the end Oct 18 15:04:37 theres a lot more to do - fbreader is a generic multiplatform app with users from lots of places, our platform isnt that big Oct 18 15:05:13 i cannot just assume that i know everything and can put it in place, i think someone from our community could look at integrating and then if it works suggest a patch to both ends Oct 18 15:05:24 hrmph.. i can do ¥ ^ € £ on this keyboard but no pgup pgd tab esc... very odd Oct 18 15:06:14 macoute_, believe me, ive thought long and hard about it, and something will come with time :) Oct 18 15:08:13 lcuk: yeah. i too think that this is something that should get a higher priority Oct 18 15:08:24 and one man isnt enough, i think :) Oct 18 15:08:39 yeah :) give it time Oct 18 15:09:01 i see enough cogs turning to know im on the right track Oct 18 15:12:29 Stskeeps: Nearly finished with roxterm, I just need to tweak the package a bit before I upload Oct 18 15:12:53 qwerty12: sounds good Oct 18 15:13:51 whodat, which keyboard is that? The built-in one? Oct 18 15:14:03 then it's only zenity left, and then deblet installer and bootmenu :P Oct 18 15:14:07 yah Oct 18 15:14:14 but i shouldn't upload bootmenu without fanoush's approval Oct 18 15:15:00 whodat, I *think* you might be able to use a keymapping utility to change the function of that. I think I read it somewhere. Oct 18 15:15:07 Stskeeps: they arent GPL? Oct 18 15:15:11 i cant see license over there Oct 18 15:15:48 ~lart fucking nautilus Oct 18 15:15:48 * infobot beats fucking nautilus into protomatter with the andromeda galaxy Oct 18 15:16:30 heh qwerty12 you wouldn't have this problem with windows explorer :D Oct 18 15:16:31 whodat, I know that at least one of the keys that should exist, Tab, is available through the Chr button. Oct 18 15:16:35 macoute_: there's also something called social behaviour Oct 18 15:17:04 cars__ : that would be cool! will have to look into that. Oct 18 15:17:08 lcuk: Dunno about that, I once installed some dodgy shell extensions that made explorer crash when I right clicked :P. Oct 18 15:17:28 dodgy shell extensions? you mean you upgradedto vista? Oct 18 15:17:39 nah, all this was in xp :p Oct 18 15:17:39 Stskeeps: surely, but license is a license, isnt it? if you publish something as GPL, you give others the right to do everything GPL allows. Oct 18 15:17:45 but as i said, i cant see the license Oct 18 15:18:12 macoute_, have you noticed i put the license directly inside liqbase as a viewable option :) Oct 18 15:18:15 whodat, I know there's a utility on desktop distros that allows you to change things. It might be xmodmap. Oct 18 15:18:35 lcuk: yeah, i noticed and value that :) Oct 18 15:18:40 macoute_: yeah, but taking someone who's a big player in maemo hacks's software from a devel branch and put it in maemo repository is kinda bad form without involving him :) Oct 18 15:19:30 that part i agree with - especially if its in progress Oct 18 15:19:47 Stskeeps: i actually disagree, though of course informing him is a must. Oct 18 15:19:52 Stskeeps: Well, I'm happy now :). I removed extra unneeded debian crud. That must be why I repacked last time :). I'll just shove an Maemo-Icon-26 on it and upload Oct 18 15:20:05 as i can for sure put his app (IF its gpl) to my site too. Oct 18 15:20:27 technically its not a must, its just not the done thing, im glad people have respected my wish so far not to push a package to extras until im ready Oct 18 15:20:45 macoute_: yes, ofcourse, license allows it but social consequences :) Oct 18 15:21:13 especially if people start using it actively, it's suddenly out of his hands Oct 18 15:21:24 Stskeeps: there could be problems with that of course, but actually, if he publishes under some copyleft (or alike) he actually permits it already Oct 18 15:21:51 but you are correct of course that without his permission it could cause some problems Oct 18 15:23:35 software takes time to bake and whipping things from key chefs errr developers before its ready leads to upset stomachs ;) Oct 18 15:23:57 * qwerty12 tries out that maemo_package_icons. I can't be arsed to base64 encode an png myself and then format it correctly for the control file. Oct 18 15:24:31 hi, anyone possibly have a or know how to get a RX-48 image, like RX-48_DIABLO_4.2008.36-5_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin? Oct 18 15:25:00 peteblack, have you tried using the flasher software on your new device? Oct 18 15:25:23 the windows one especially - it tries to automatically download the correct image from nokias site Oct 18 15:25:24 lcuk, yes, if finds the image, downloads it but then fails Oct 18 15:25:45 it might be that my hardware version doesn't match Oct 18 15:25:50 this si for a wimax device isnt it? Oct 18 15:25:55 so i'm looking to do it manually Oct 18 15:25:59 right Oct 18 15:26:20 because its brand new, it might be an idea to contact nokia themselves to see why its failing Oct 18 15:26:34 the only image i have is for none wimax device so would be wrong Oct 18 15:26:46 yeah, tried that, but they don't seem to interested in helping out, might try again today Oct 18 15:27:14 have you been onto the tablets-dev page and entered your wlan id thing and checked if its listed there? Oct 18 15:27:47 ie this: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php (but im not sure what code you need for the wimax version) Oct 18 15:28:28 yeah, so i apparently have an pre-production version, where nokia support have confirmed that the id points to finland Oct 18 15:28:48 so whenever i enter it on tablets-dev i get a wrong id Oct 18 15:28:57 have you possibly seen any RX-48 images there? Oct 18 15:30:10 no, i last flashed a few months ago, since you have a pre-production model you may have tostep backwards through to your nokia contact to get an update Oct 18 15:30:57 yes, i'm trying to do that as well Oct 18 15:31:13 i don't know the person personally, and he/she is not there at the moment Oct 18 15:31:24 solarion, im a bit stuck... Oct 18 15:31:26 might i ask, how did you get your hands on a pre-prod model anyway Oct 18 15:32:09 i got it from a friend who did some work for nokia Oct 18 15:32:34 cool Oct 18 15:32:50 it would be if i could get the device re-flashed :) Oct 18 15:32:51 btw. have any of you tried the "tube" phone from Nokia? Oct 18 15:32:55 think those are supposed to be returned to nokia ;) Oct 18 15:33:11 oh yea, how would i find out? Oct 18 15:33:24 I sure as hell wouldn't if I had one :P Oct 18 15:33:30 heh qwerty Oct 18 15:33:41 and thats why they will never send you one :P Oct 18 15:33:48 true true :P Oct 18 15:33:53 peteblack: why do you need a reflash anyway? Oct 18 15:34:01 right im off Oct 18 15:34:22 see ya lcuk Oct 18 15:34:31 Stskeeps, the firmware on it was horribly old and the SSU was not working Oct 18 15:34:34 back later guys, and hopefully my head will be back in a coding frame, i feel a bit useless with stuff to do and the wrong head on Oct 18 15:34:38 peteblack: ah Oct 18 15:35:05 Stskeeps, also , i'm a developer and i will eventually break this thing ;) Oct 18 15:35:27 if it aint broke, dont try to fix it Oct 18 15:35:51 But that takes all the fun out of it. Oct 18 15:35:54 if it aint broke, pimp it up Oct 18 15:36:07 ... until you break it, then fix it Oct 18 15:36:12 peteblack: could always query on iTT Oct 18 15:36:12 qwerty12 got it right~ Oct 18 15:36:19 you wouldn't be the first with a preprod Oct 18 15:36:23 of anything Oct 18 15:36:46 Stskeeps, i did, and i don't think i am Oct 18 15:37:00 weird that no one has ever seen any RX-48 images around Oct 18 15:37:32 i don't think most people have gotten rx-48s yet Oct 18 15:37:37 peteblack: images don't really get leaked :/. With the diablo leaked, it was people flashing chinook first and then upgrading by basically ssu Oct 18 15:37:38 true Oct 18 15:37:46 s/leaked/leak/ Oct 18 15:37:46 qwerty12 meant: peteblack: images don't really get leak :/. With the diablo leaked, it was people flashing chinook first and then upgrading by basically ssu Oct 18 15:37:59 stupid bot Oct 18 15:38:05 qwerty12, ah, right, thanks Oct 18 15:39:15 well i did manage to break it and get it back by chopping up an old RX-44 image, but this is no longer an option Oct 18 15:39:55 could always install deblet and start hacking on that since your tablet isn't supported obviously :P Oct 18 15:40:12 like, won't be by nokia Oct 18 15:40:21 heh, either that or android Oct 18 15:40:35 the android sucks on the tablet Oct 18 15:40:44 oh yeah? Oct 18 15:40:46 * qwerty12 = diablo kernel patch porter for android :P Oct 18 15:41:24 It's based on the old sdk, I don't know if it runs any of the newer programs Oct 18 15:41:47 Pavlov, if you don't mind me asking, where did you hear that nokia want's the pre-prods back? Oct 18 15:42:07 qwerty12, ah, i see Oct 18 15:42:14 might be worth a try though Oct 18 15:45:14 Stskeeps: roxterm sent to chinook & diablo extras-devel builder Oct 18 15:45:27 qwerty12: fantastic Oct 18 15:45:29 * qwerty12 now gets on with setting up haiku in vmware, being a long time beos fan :) Oct 18 15:46:29 qwerty12: where is it you see progress again for builder? Oct 18 15:46:46 https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/ - I just look here Oct 18 15:46:50 keep refreshing :p Oct 18 15:47:11 Note: When it says package OK, it still takes time for it to transfer to extras-devel :P Oct 18 15:47:18 hehe Oct 18 15:47:31 And my chinook build failed :) Oct 18 15:47:37 Lemme fix that... Oct 18 16:06:41 Stskeeps: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/temp/ - I was bored :p Oct 18 16:07:05 qwerty12, is the 0xFFFF initfs you have at http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/initfs/ still good? Oct 18 16:07:36 peteblack: That's not an initfs but rather an 0xFFFF binary that runs in initfs :/ Oct 18 16:07:39 qwerty12: uhoh Oct 18 16:07:47 qwerty12: better not be in extras ;) Oct 18 16:08:23 lol, no, that's my installed apps :P. The point is the display name and icon if you want it :p. little cosmetic stuff Oct 18 16:09:11 qwerty12, got it, are there any version limitations? Oct 18 16:09:29 for the binary that is Oct 18 16:09:32 peteblack: shouldn't be, it was compiled statically Oct 18 16:09:40 ok, thanks Oct 18 16:11:52 qwerty12, any chance you feel like compiling flite direct from source and seeing what happens? Oct 18 16:12:15 GeneralAntilles: From the source that is in the chinook repo or from upstream? Oct 18 16:12:21 upstream Oct 18 16:12:26 There's no source in Chinook. Oct 18 16:12:40 I talked to gnuite and, apparently, he doesn't have the source so he can't upload it to Diablo Extras. Oct 18 16:12:45 Which sounds a bit bizarre to me. Oct 18 16:13:12 I swear flite used to be in some repo Oct 18 16:13:24 It was in Chinook Extras Oct 18 16:13:27 just not with source. Oct 18 16:14:05 Ahh Oct 18 16:14:17 Do you know if gnuite made any modifications on it? Oct 18 16:14:23 http://www.failfoods.com/?p=333 :D bacon-henge Oct 18 16:14:32 winfoods Oct 18 16:14:45 qwerty12, not a clue. Oct 18 16:14:49 ok :) Oct 18 16:15:04 So I was just gonna get you to compile it straight and see what happens. ;) Oct 18 16:18:38 * GeneralAntilles still needs to talk to lardman. Oct 18 16:18:45 * qwerty12 twiddles thumbs while it does its stuff. Oct 18 16:20:00 http://flors.wordpress.com/2008/10/17/calling-all-innovators/#comment-1475 Oct 18 16:20:02 Bizarre Oct 18 16:21:29 heh GeneralAntilles Oct 18 16:21:43 lcuk, "get it up" . . . Oct 18 16:21:55 i am in code right now Oct 18 16:22:06 17:13 18/10/2008 GB reverted sketch resolution changes due to over enthusiastic tweak - some resolutions of sketch combined with different resolutions caused it to draw too heavily on some screens Oct 18 16:22:12 see, real change logs, im BUSY! Oct 18 16:23:15 GeneralAntilles, really wont be long, i have 2 things to do :) Oct 18 16:23:36 FFS, compiling flite throws warnings like a bitch Oct 18 16:25:40 * Stskeeps watches the warnings eat qwerty12 Oct 18 16:26:15 * GeneralAntilles chuckles at the Archos 5 vs. iPhone vs. N810 browser comparison. Oct 18 16:26:36 they should make a demo with tear+n810 or something :P Oct 18 16:26:46 if tear is half as good as midori on deblet.. Oct 18 16:27:15 * Jaffa ouches Oct 18 16:27:25 rough weekend, jaffa? Oct 18 16:27:57 Been laying Cat5 in various rooms whilst they've been empty and swapping furniture around Oct 18 16:29:00 Stskeeps: diablo roxterm built fine. I've reuploaded roxterm to chinook builder which should build this time because I uploaded libvte-dev too Oct 18 16:29:56 So far, nobody reporting the story seems to realize the Archos 5 has a CPU several lightyears ahead of the ones in the others. Oct 18 16:34:20 GeneralAntilles: to an extent, *why* it's faster isn't as important as the the fact it *is* Oct 18 16:34:33 (to end-users etc) Oct 18 16:34:47 GeneralAntilles, I just took a very brief look at it, and the Archos looks interesting, though it's probably not as hackable as the Nokia tablets. But it has to be either huge or suck battery life with the hard drives, etc. Oct 18 16:35:00 It's huge Oct 18 16:35:11 It also tells you to buy accessories while you're using it. Oct 18 16:35:22 Not exactly pocketable? Oct 18 16:35:39 GeneralAntilles: wife in the pocket, eh? Oct 18 16:35:56 It's pocketable enough, I suppose. Oct 18 16:36:03 But it's significantly bigger than the tablets. Oct 18 16:37:06 Jaffa, likely, but the reports all seem baffled as to why the Archos 5 is faster. Oct 18 16:37:28 s/reports/reporters/ Oct 18 16:37:28 GeneralAntilles meant: Jaffa, likely, but the reporters all seem baffled as to why the Archos 5 is faster. Oct 18 16:39:18 I love my N810. Oct 18 16:39:55 .. my precioussss n800. Oct 18 16:39:57 Yeah, it's not perfect, but it gets a lot of things right. Oct 18 16:40:10 Its currently the best tablet PC I've tried Oct 18 16:40:18 and it's not even a tablet pc Oct 18 16:40:19 :P Oct 18 16:40:22 just a tablet Oct 18 16:40:23 heh. Oct 18 16:40:26 I mean internet tablet. Oct 18 16:40:39 it's a very personal computer to me though :) Oct 18 16:40:39 I've tried OQO, a few PocketPCs, Palm Oct 18 16:40:49 iCunt^W^W^WiPhone Oct 18 16:41:01 i dont even know of any other tablets :) Oct 18 16:41:05 so it surely is the best one Oct 18 16:41:10 haha Oct 18 16:42:09 GeneralAntilles: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/flite/ - The library sure as hell aint lite though... Oct 18 16:42:12 I like it better than my Thinkpad X61T. Although the X61 can do more, the n810 is simply more handy.. Oct 18 16:43:32 cars__: can i have your x61? Oct 18 16:43:39 I can pull it out of my pocket and people are amazed when I start doing "computer" stuff with it. Oct 18 16:44:01 heh, yeah :) Oct 18 16:44:05 * aquatix loves his n810 too Oct 18 16:45:02 * Stskeeps wonders about a comment qqil made Oct 18 16:45:04 aquatix, it's currently in for service - Vista screwed the whole thing up, so the first thing that goes on it when I get it back is a debian-based distro. Oct 18 16:45:22 "Alignment and collaboration with Debian (let me add Ubuntu Mobile here as well, without getting into details) is in my opinion an essential step forward." Oct 18 16:45:32 i wonder if fremantle is mojo handhelds based Oct 18 16:45:54 i mean, with upstart and all that stuff on the maemo summit Oct 18 16:46:27 And the Canonical guy talking about NDAs he'd signed with Nokia about the tablets Oct 18 16:46:49 and his comment of "watch this space in 6-8 months" Oct 18 16:47:08 i would actually welcome that move tbh Oct 18 16:47:56 because it reduces some of the maemo insanities Oct 18 16:47:56 Indeed, let OS specialists handle packaging and (open) infrastructure. Nokia can concentrate on "differentiation" Oct 18 16:47:57 Wish they'd actually talk about it. Oct 18 16:48:22 GeneralAntilles: maybe we could bait qqil in the maemo on pandora threa Oct 18 16:48:22 d Oct 18 16:48:31 Hehe Oct 18 16:50:25 Stskeeps: roxterm is now in extras-devel for chinook & diablo Oct 18 16:50:37 ta Oct 18 16:50:41 * Stskeeps removes from deblet repo Oct 18 16:51:12 cars__: ah :) Oct 18 16:51:39 sorry to hear of the screwage, but debian-based distro's are nice imho Oct 18 16:51:51 qwerty12: were you the master who was able to compile the rt73 wifi driver with packet inject? Oct 18 16:52:29 malikul_: Nope, I compiled some other realtek driver for someone :) Oct 18 16:53:34 qwerty12: hum I was checking out the threads and I aircrack-ng to function. Wont see the external wifi card. Oct 18 16:54:39 sorry I cannot get aircrack-ng Oct 18 16:55:37 aquatix, Part of the problem was a windows update marked my computer as not genuine and I spent five hours convincing Microsoft I was not a criminal. Once they believed me, they told me they couldn't help me. I used to dabble in Linux as a hobby, but that has convinced me to use it as a primary OS. Oct 18 16:55:52 qwerty12: cfdisk was in extras in chinook? Oct 18 16:55:53 cars__: ouch Oct 18 16:56:00 Stskeeps: extras-devel Oct 18 16:56:10 ok Oct 18 16:56:14 didn't even know that existed actually Oct 18 16:56:19 cars__: reminds me of a reinstall i did of my gf's laptop with a genuine windows key and cd, which where refused Oct 18 16:56:27 so now she's running xubuntu ;) Oct 18 16:56:59 You people must have some bad luck. I've used cracked copies with windows marking it as genuine... Oct 18 16:57:46 qwerty12: actually, i phoned mickeysoft and got an unlock code after typing in a lot of numbers that the program generated Oct 18 16:57:56 but she still likes xubuntu better Oct 18 16:58:05 nice games and such ;) Oct 18 16:58:24 MS and all the other companies using a guilty until proven innocent scheme are just shooting themselves in the foot. Oct 18 16:58:40 and i don't do illegal windows stuff anymore since i discovered Free and better alternatives many years ago Oct 18 16:58:50 cars__: yeah :/ Oct 18 16:58:57 * Stskeeps has 3-4-5 legal XP licenses from msdnaa Oct 18 16:59:20 I have legal versions of windows but when you do work with VM's it is a pain to be legal. Easier to pirate the legal versions Oct 18 16:59:48 My windows xp mce & vista are legal being hp oem copies but in my vista, I have some components copied from ultimate and unlimited incoming connections which breaks the eula Oct 18 17:00:25 unlimited incoming connections? Oct 18 17:00:33 * GeneralAntilles doesn't understand how people put up with it. Oct 18 17:00:38 GeneralAntilles: me too Oct 18 17:00:39 I assume MS has in their EULA that they don't want you to use a VM to run what they call an OS, too. Oct 18 17:00:48 aquatix: "LanServer NoConnectionLimit Vista.7z" Oct 18 17:01:05 qwerty12: yeah, but... a connection limitation on an OS? Oct 18 17:01:13 licensing Oct 18 17:01:14 :P Oct 18 17:01:34 :/ Oct 18 17:01:45 * aquatix doesn't have any of the 12 Vista versions Oct 18 17:02:26 aquatix: Yeah, for sure! You have to patch to get it to allow more than 10 half-open connections (a security "feature" introduced from xp sp2) and the eula says you cant have more than 10 connections because more than 10 connections makes your vista workstation a server and they want you to pay more for windows server 2007 ;( Oct 18 17:02:43 I have 2GB of RAM on the X61, aquatix, and even when Vista was working, it was sluggish. Oct 18 17:02:43 w...t...f... Oct 18 17:03:34 another wtf, but one i already heard of Oct 18 17:03:55 my pc might even run vista, it having 8GB of ram and a recent dual-core processor Oct 18 17:04:03 (ram is *cheap* ;) ) Oct 18 17:04:19 * aquatix gets more pizza Oct 18 17:04:39 After disabling shitty services, home premium runs fine and fast on a comp with 2gb ram and an old dual core Oct 18 17:07:38 qwerty12, that's probably what's helping to slow me down. I found it was defragging my SD card in the background and using up 70% of the CPU while I was playing a game. Oct 18 17:08:17 It was probably indexing it at the same time, too. Oct 18 17:08:42 cars__: ouch. Yeah, my hard drive activity was a lot. I disabled the indexing service (*never* used it, even from xp) and installed a windows version of locate Oct 18 17:10:19 the idea of defragging an SD card... argh Oct 18 17:11:03 qwerty12: myeah, but why should someone even have to bother tweaking his or her consumer OS to run fine on their new laptop/pc? Oct 18 17:11:11 * aquatix still thinks it's odd Oct 18 17:11:23 apple does it way better, for example Oct 18 17:11:43 ccooke, I know. It's pointless. And to do it automatically, like it's helping me slow down my computer. At the very least, wait for the CPU load to become idle for a while before starting something like that. Oct 18 17:12:06 cars__: it's worse than pointless, it's destructive Oct 18 17:12:17 aquatix: It's true, I'm not going to argue with you there. XP was better in that respect, I did think it faster than windows 2000 when I used to use that Oct 18 17:12:17 cars__: so it not only slows down your pc when you don't want it, it destroys your property too? Oct 18 17:12:30 win2k was slow in booting Oct 18 17:12:31 aquatix, yes, that's right. Oct 18 17:12:37 winxp still is, but conceals it :) Oct 18 17:12:57 aquatix: Not very well :-) Oct 18 17:13:00 aquatix: Heh, win2k bootscreen is my favourite out of all of them :P. Oct 18 17:13:21 aquatix: the way you can't do anything for anything up to a few minutes after you first start it is kind of a give-away :-) Oct 18 17:13:54 but i don't want to start some flame war; people should use the OS they are happy with - if they aren't happy, they shouldn't complain, but do something about it though Oct 18 17:13:58 ccooke, it's enough to fool my mother. She tries using the computer immediately after she sees the desktop. She wonders why nothing loads. Oct 18 17:14:04 ccooke: 'xactly ;) Oct 18 17:14:37 cars__: that's what a lot of people have Oct 18 17:15:07 well 12 more days till ubuntu 8.10 comes out! Oct 18 17:16:33 That reminds me, to backup my ssh & gpg keys, do I just copy ~/.gnupg & ~/.ssh? Oct 18 17:17:16 should be enough, yes Oct 18 17:17:22 thanks Oct 18 17:17:46 don't sue me, but that was enough for me in the past :) Oct 18 17:18:13 Hehe, I'll have to do it anyway :). Otherwise X-Fade will kill me if I lose them again :p Oct 18 17:18:26 if they are old keys make sure you regen then Oct 18 17:18:43 big flaw that made brute force easy was discovered Oct 18 17:19:05 depends on how old Oct 18 17:19:06 Oh, no, these keys were generated after debian put out the fixed openssh :) Oct 18 17:19:12 awesome Oct 18 17:19:20 * aquatix had even older keys that where perfectly fine Oct 18 17:19:39 well then yeah your .ssh and .gnupg folders should contain everything you need Oct 18 17:27:27 ohhh, j avais pas utilise Wall Oct 18 17:27:29 oups Oct 18 17:47:03 hmm. Oct 18 17:47:09 any of you with ext3 + SD clone? Oct 18 17:48:53 i just noticed tune2fs -O dir_index & e2fsck -fD as a possible directory speedup :P Oct 18 17:53:10 Yes, Ext3 here. Oct 18 17:53:42 cos it's not enabled when mkfsing normally Oct 18 17:53:43 <_gasnik_> Skocz mi ty chuju! Oct 18 17:55:17 <_gasnik_> Skocz mi ty chuju! Oct 18 17:55:24 .. what? Oct 18 17:55:34 <_gasnik_> ? Oct 18 17:55:43 _gasnik_, English-only channel. Oct 18 17:56:00 <_gasnik_> this is "hi" in polish Oct 18 17:56:16 not halo? :P Oct 18 17:56:30 that chuju scared me for a moment :P Oct 18 17:56:38 <_gasnik_> whatever Oct 18 17:56:45 <_gasnik_> why? Oct 18 17:56:52 j/k Oct 18 17:57:10 <_gasnik_> Skocz mi ty chuju! Oct 18 17:57:18 why repeating it? Oct 18 17:57:39 <_gasnik_> because i'm good boy ;D Oct 18 17:59:20 _gasnik_: please don't swear :) Oct 18 17:59:33 <_gasnik_> why? Oct 18 18:00:03 Bo to dziecinne. Oct 18 18:00:30 <_gasnik_> english please Oct 18 18:00:39 lol Oct 18 18:00:44 _gasnik_: you started ;) Oct 18 18:00:57 <_gasnik_> but it's only hi Oct 18 18:01:00 _gasnik_, go troll elsewhere :) Oct 18 18:01:06 no, it isn't, and stop playing dumb. Oct 18 18:01:17 _gasnik_: according to google it has to do with the male anatomy ;) Oct 18 18:02:10 <_gasnik_> no ;D Oct 18 18:02:16 <_gasnik_> not only ;D Oct 18 18:05:36 So my first AC adaptor broke and I mistakenly ordered an AC-3U instead of the AC-4U I received with the tablet. It charges, but it takes about six hours to do so. Oct 18 18:06:25 cars__, please don't talk to me about chargers :p Oct 18 18:10:13 moo Oct 18 18:10:50 00m RST38h Oct 18 18:11:49 Another Fugu Plan: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/18/AR2008101800820.html?nav=igoogle Oct 18 18:22:05 * lcuk dances around Oct 18 18:22:28 congrats :D Oct 18 18:22:48 well i wasnt gonna let it beat me for another day Oct 18 18:22:53 its been taunting me for ages Oct 18 18:25:42 haha Oct 18 18:26:00 "Enable Plugins - Makes websites annoying" Oct 18 18:26:05 * sp3000 <3 fennec prefs Oct 18 18:28:49 * qwerty12_N800 nearly had a heart attack thinking i'd messed up *this* charger. turns out that the gtk icon cache needs rebuilding Oct 18 18:29:48 what was the offending package install/remove script this time? Oct 18 18:30:24 well, my tablet restarted during uninstall of bash2 :/ Oct 18 18:30:55 evil Oct 18 18:32:33 question: liqbase produces a lot of console output, but not all users are able to access and send the data, ive currently added logging to file, but want to remove it and just log to console as usual - is this standard procedure for apps? Oct 18 18:32:51 send to stderr, yeah Oct 18 18:32:54 yes Oct 18 18:33:06 you'd be surprised what kind of funny crap maemo apps send out Oct 18 18:33:18 * lcuk has had trouble trying to get users to send logs about spurious unrepeatable errors Oct 18 18:33:42 i suppose if they cant repeat it then its not really an error Oct 18 18:34:02 ok, logging to file stopping by default :) Oct 18 18:34:19 ldap is a friggin pain Oct 18 18:35:16 w00t, vdvsx released blue maemo Oct 18 18:37:34 woo Oct 18 18:37:42 * Stskeeps goes dl Oct 18 18:40:07 sp3000: :) Oct 18 18:40:43 sp3000: i almost installed Fennec, but thought better of it when i saw it needed 26.3MB to install Oct 18 18:40:57 GRumble. Is there no client xmlrp api in python2.5 for maemo ? Oct 18 18:40:57 26.3? jesus Oct 18 18:41:28 Stskeeps: after installing, yeah Oct 18 18:41:36 9.3MB of packages Oct 18 18:41:51 Stskeeps: because of xulrunner i think Oct 18 18:42:06 as fennec itself is about 77KB Oct 18 18:42:10 * qwerty12_N800 would try it if it worked with hildon keyboard Oct 18 18:46:55 ph, yes, there is one xmlrcp module :) Oct 18 18:48:07 Stskeeps, XULRunner Oct 18 18:48:11 woo: bluemaemo works Oct 18 18:49:17 Stskeeps, which is exactly why MicroB doesn't use it. ;) Oct 18 18:49:24 yeah, that libxul is 5MB bigger than the microb one Oct 18 18:59:47 well.. i think i'm goign to have to reboot my fbsd server Oct 18 18:59:48 how lame :) Oct 18 19:00:03 all this just so i can set up an auth server Oct 18 19:08:15 sp3000: microb doesn't even have xul i thought? Oct 18 19:13:46 yeah, libxul just happens to be the name of the huge everything goes here library Oct 18 19:14:27 (if you build that way; it's faster and stuff iirc) Oct 18 19:19:48 is there a port of svgalib to meamos Oct 18 19:22:20 liqbase.net is black :) Oct 18 19:22:38 still doesnt use a properly designed theme, but it will ;) Oct 18 19:22:57 You want me to just do it for you? :P Oct 18 19:23:22 lcuk, grr, i don't have an chr key Oct 18 19:23:28 :P Oct 18 19:23:39 heh GeneralAntilles i tried converting to it Oct 18 19:23:42 just a mo Oct 18 19:23:50 don't make me recompile :p Oct 18 19:27:51 Anyone knows what .cprestore assembler directive does? Oct 18 19:31:10 i thought you were the master of asm oh mr ASMOPCODENICKNAME man Oct 18 19:31:18 in other words i dunno Oct 18 19:32:20 most Russians are masters of asm :p Oct 18 19:34:41 * RST38h has no idea what it does although it does look to do something with the stack frame Oct 18 19:37:42 Anybody else get weird text-wrapping with Mozilla's bugzilla? Oct 18 19:38:54 It's like the comments element is too thin, so I get browser soft-wrapping plus bugzilla's hard-wrapping Oct 18 19:38:57 really irritating Oct 18 19:44:39 <_gregorovius> anybody knows if it's possible to get internet access in my n800 via usb? not via a usb-eth adapter, but via a linux or windows computer with internet access Oct 18 19:45:11 ~usb-networking Oct 18 19:45:15 (?) Oct 18 19:45:34 _gregorovius: linux computer works for sure, windows not so much Oct 18 19:46:33 <_gregorovius> i'm at a linux comp right now... any links? I didn't find anything in the ITT wiki Oct 18 19:46:41 infobot, usb-networking is http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking Oct 18 19:46:42 qwerty12_N800: okay Oct 18 19:47:02 <_gregorovius> thanks qwerty12_N800 Oct 18 19:49:42 sois emos o memos???? Oct 18 19:50:08 k animacion por dios! Oct 18 19:50:21 tanto mensaje me abruma Oct 18 19:50:27 secundo la mocion Oct 18 19:51:35 <_gregorovius> canal equivocado? Oct 18 19:53:02 gadejo Oct 18 19:53:26 <_gregorovius> "The second part describes how to configure various platforms to use the Nokia tablet as a network device" this seems to be the opposite of what I want Oct 18 19:55:30 uhm, why? Oct 18 19:56:00 the nokia goes out and acts like a ethernet device Oct 18 19:56:12 how do i get a pgp key with windows Oct 18 19:56:12 but with the only device on it besides the pc Oct 18 19:56:16 for uploading to extras Oct 18 19:56:57 Jaffa: some more to the ubuntu mobile thought.. ubuntu got kinda fucked over by moblin moving to fedora Oct 18 19:57:25 lcuk, do it in linux :p. you'll need it to make the source package anyway Oct 18 19:57:34 so they'd obviously look for a new corporate development partner Oct 18 19:58:45 gah. nit-env-hildon play, deblet on beagleboard or movie. Oct 18 19:58:57 i have beer. each one of them is compatible. Oct 18 20:01:35 okay. seemingily i have made a nit-env-hildon base and i have forgotten it. Oct 18 20:06:24 Sts: Doesn't ubuntu have enough money on its own? Oct 18 20:06:46 RST38h: not sure really :P Oct 18 20:06:55 maybe not that targeted developers Oct 18 20:12:31 <_gregorovius> I installed maemo-control. I enable usb networking and set up rules for it in my /etc/network/interfaces, but when plugging it in nothing happens. am I missing something? Oct 18 20:12:34 ......Not enough random bytes available. Please do some other work to give...... Oct 18 20:13:01 <_gregorovius> (modprobe'd usbnet as well) Oct 18 20:13:13 lcuk: worst annoyance about gpg Oct 18 20:13:30 _gregorovius check dmesg output on both devices Oct 18 20:13:35 well im doing as it asks Oct 18 20:13:45 lcuk, what are you generating under? Oct 18 20:13:53 gregorovius try manually ifconfig usb0 up on both devices Oct 18 20:14:00 nokia :$ Oct 18 20:14:14 ahh, k Oct 18 20:14:14 gregorovius on host side you could use ifplugd Oct 18 20:14:23 <_gregorovius> do I need to set up a dummy network or something alike? Oct 18 20:14:34 <_gregorovius> or is the connection manager not involved? Oct 18 20:14:35 _gregorovius???? Oct 18 20:14:40 nope Oct 18 20:14:54 just be sure the kernel modules are loaded Oct 18 20:15:06 then setup interfaces Oct 18 20:15:28 turn interfaces on automagicly with ifplugd Oct 18 20:15:37 or ifup usb0 Oct 18 20:15:43 lcuk810, open another terminal and type cd / ; find Oct 18 20:15:56 should create enough entropy Oct 18 20:17:03 im playin chess Oct 18 20:17:09 and in here Oct 18 20:17:13 and gpsing Oct 18 20:17:20 <_gregorovius> in my main computer I get usb0 up when plugging it in, but it only seems to have an ipv6 assigned, no ipv4 :S Oct 18 20:19:04 _gregorovius yeah because /etc/network/interfaces runs either at start up Oct 18 20:19:16 or with ifup usb0 manually Oct 18 20:19:55 if you want automagic install ifplugd I hope its the last time I have to explain it Oct 18 20:20:08 <_gregorovius> haha, sorry Oct 18 20:20:41 _gregorovius the auto in interfaces has meaning at boot ime Oct 18 20:20:46 ups boot time Oct 18 20:21:07 <_gregorovius> I set it up as "iface usb0 inet static" Oct 18 20:21:29 jepp Oct 18 20:21:41 thats the normal way Oct 18 20:22:23 but ifup/down really rocks when you set it up with ifplugd guessnet and wpa_suplicant Oct 18 20:22:38 <_gregorovius> now I did ifup usb0, and my tablet can ping my comp (and vice versa) Oct 18 20:23:02 hurray Oct 18 20:23:12 <_gregorovius> however, if I try to open a page in microb, conn Oct 18 20:23:21 <_gregorovius> sorry, conn-manager tries to connect to wireless Oct 18 20:24:01 sorry I do not know microb Oct 18 20:24:14 and yes the maganger suckz about usb net Oct 18 20:24:33 apt-get install libicd-network-dummy Oct 18 20:25:02 Error: the key you provided is not a valid PGP or GPG public key Oct 18 20:25:15 it says it is :'( Oct 18 20:27:04 you really don't have a linux computer that this can be done from? i generated mine in linux and it works fine for uploading Oct 18 20:27:45 also gnupg that comes with tablet is retarded version iirc Oct 18 20:28:45 crap umm wait a minute lemme try Oct 18 20:32:51 <_gregorovius> argh, still no internet access Oct 18 20:33:58 <_gregorovius> I installed libicd-network-dummy. USB now shows up under conn manager, if I select it it says it's connected, but the icon shows as if it weren't connected Oct 18 20:34:14 Dear lcuk, Oct 18 20:34:14 You have successfully accepted our invitation. You will shortly receive an email to Oct 18 20:34:31 lcuk hehe Oct 18 20:34:38 _gregorovius, oh, the icon is like that for dummy connections Oct 18 20:34:39 <_gregorovius> ah, wait. dns Oct 18 20:34:57 thanks qwerty12_N800 that was painful Oct 18 20:35:07 _gregorovius dont forget to set the route right Oct 18 20:35:36 lcuk, heh :). hope liqbase makes it in extras! Oct 18 20:35:47 -devel first Oct 18 20:35:56 of course Oct 18 20:36:04 it will Oct 18 20:36:18 I am sure Oct 18 20:36:23 <_gregorovius> adding 192.168.2.14 to resolv.conf on the tablet is enough? is that file persistent on the tablet? Oct 18 20:36:37 better set it in interfaces Oct 18 20:37:50 hello Oct 18 20:37:51 crap! does anyone know if liqbase builds in the x86 scratchbox? Oct 18 20:37:58 I've a question about hildon input method Oct 18 20:38:30 can the input method app see changes inside a textbox it's bound to? Oct 18 20:38:59 (like, cursor move, deletion, insertion) Oct 18 20:39:04 AStorm, i would imagine it expects to be one way changes Oct 18 20:39:14 ouch Oct 18 20:39:23 it doesnt expect the text to change from outside while you arei n it Oct 18 20:39:38 it may do, but if it was mine i wouldnt code for it Oct 18 20:39:42 hmm, I mean, you still will be inside Oct 18 20:39:50 <_gregorovius> woglinde, if I do that, do I need to set up dnsmasq or similar on my host? Oct 18 20:39:52 moving a cursor with a pen for example Oct 18 20:39:59 selecting something Oct 18 20:39:59 <_gregorovius> I'm not really fluent in networking Oct 18 20:40:04 lcuk, iirc, if x86 build can't be done, then it's ignored. *i think*. but you can add lines to debian/rules that do different things depending on arch (e.g for i686,, not yo compile with libxsp etc) Oct 18 20:40:08 cursor should all be done via the input method itself shouldnt it Oct 18 20:40:22 oh crap Oct 18 20:40:25 uhm... well, it's the cursor in the app :) Oct 18 20:40:34 not that the im moves it, user moves Oct 18 20:40:50 ahhh you mean the little keyboard - i thought you meant when the fullscreen one came up Oct 18 20:41:10 _gregorovius what you know about internet routing and dns? Oct 18 20:41:13 workflow: user enters some text with IM, user clicks somewhere in the textbox (im still active) and moves the cursor Oct 18 20:41:17 shouldnt that one simply fake keypresses Oct 18 20:41:19 im sees it or not? Oct 18 20:41:19 lcuk, main thing is armel build. check the logs, if it's failed, a reupload is always possible Oct 18 20:41:36 alright, but i cant sign the .deb i already made can i Oct 18 20:41:40 ive gotta rebuild it Oct 18 20:42:09 <_gregorovius> woglinde, I know my computer knows my ISP's DNS addresses, and I know it must somehow communicate that to the tablet, or serve as a dns server itself Oct 18 20:42:27 <_gregorovius> I gather the first option is the simplest, but I don't know how to to that Oct 18 20:42:28 hehe Oct 18 20:42:35 see, I think IM should get information about cursor and selection changes in the text box Oct 18 20:42:35 lcuk, you make a source package and sign the changes file which is uploaded and the builder makes a deb Oct 18 20:42:36 then think about the solutions Oct 18 20:42:40 there is one eays Oct 18 20:42:41 am I wrong? Oct 18 20:43:13 ive got the source thingy i think ( liqbase_0.0.9.tar.gz ) and the _armel.changes file Oct 18 20:43:51 sounds good. have you ran debsign on the changes file? Oct 18 20:45:17 not yet, just trying to make sure my .ssh key is on the right machine Oct 18 20:45:21 right now, itsn ot Oct 18 20:45:30 <_gregorovius> woglinde, I was going to manually set it up in the tablet, but the USB connection only has options for proxies Oct 18 20:45:52 gregorovius edit the interfaces file yourself Oct 18 20:47:07 \@/ crashbox doesnt have gpg Oct 18 20:47:13 scratchbox Oct 18 20:47:28 do it outside sbox Oct 18 20:47:31 <_gregorovius> that might work, but I have some man reading to do then =) Oct 18 20:47:59 i make source packages in sbox, debsign + dput outside sbox Oct 18 20:48:14 you can install gpg to scratchbox, much easier Oct 18 20:48:28 ahh, cool Oct 18 20:48:32 then dpkg-buildpackage -sa -S will automatically sign the files Oct 18 20:48:36 scratchbox doesn't have gpg? Oct 18 20:48:46 why on earth does extras require it when their own bloody sdk doesn't support it? Oct 18 20:48:47 :P Oct 18 20:49:04 dput can be used from scratchbox too Oct 18 20:49:14 thanks mikkov_, didn't know that. should save me lots of time :) Oct 18 20:49:20 but it isn't in any repo Oct 18 20:49:26 ah Oct 18 20:51:29 gnupg is in extras, I think Oct 18 20:51:44 <_gregorovius> hm. I don't see any dns options in /etc/network/interfaces' man =/ Oct 18 20:51:57 _gregorovius yes they forget it to put in Oct 18 20:52:08 uhm, then the default is dhcp Oct 18 20:52:11 :) Oct 18 20:53:18 <_gregorovius> woglinde, any hints? Oct 18 20:54:22 dns-nameservers Oct 18 20:58:58 <_gregorovius> thanks Oct 18 20:59:15 <_gregorovius> that should really be in the manual Oct 18 20:59:51 hm post a bug to the debian folks Oct 18 21:02:16 Maemo Extras Assistant Oct 18 21:02:16 Step 3: upload source files Oct 18 21:07:38 dput should be in extras-devel, now (or soon) Oct 18 21:08:10 * qwerty12_N800 laughs at the irony but says thanks :) Oct 18 21:13:44 lcuk: build-depends are missing Oct 18 21:14:43 yeah, shitbags Oct 18 21:15:13 lcuk ;) Oct 18 21:16:05 could someone decode this and try to give me a clue what to look for Oct 18 21:16:06 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/liqbase_0.0.9/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt Oct 18 21:16:07 please :$ Oct 18 21:16:17 ~upload-extras Oct 18 21:16:18 i heard upload-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Oct 18 21:16:19 build-depends are missing Oct 18 21:16:53 it has a cmdline telling what build-depends ypu need to put in Oct 18 21:17:27 ahhh ok but is that from within scratchbox or from outside Oct 18 21:17:47 within Oct 18 21:18:01 within, run it and it will tell you what to specify Oct 18 21:18:18 dpkg-depcheck -m dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b Oct 18 21:22:02 qwerty12_N800, ok, ive run that, what do i do with the list Oct 18 21:22:28 add it behind Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 2) Oct 18 21:22:31 in control Oct 18 21:23:33 fecking console wont c&p Oct 18 21:23:56 lcuk hm another good would be that you can tag svn tree for the revisions Oct 18 21:24:06 so its easier to navigate Oct 18 21:24:41 or check out the code of a specifiy relaeas version Oct 18 21:25:25 arseholey dilbertbrained halfbreed of a whore, why the feck wont my console copy and paste. (did i tell you i hate vmware) Oct 18 21:25:43 woglinde, i keep trying to but its another thing to remember Oct 18 21:26:26 lcuk, vmware tools installed (if from host to guest)? Oct 18 21:26:51 im trying to copy from console into mousepad within same system Oct 18 21:28:46 with commas? Oct 18 21:28:52 * lcuk is doin it manually Oct 18 21:28:59 yes Oct 18 21:29:57 Build-Depends: item, item2, item3 etc Oct 18 21:31:24 i with there were a numlock key Oct 18 21:31:28 lcuk vmware can only cut and paste from xserver Oct 18 21:31:34 or fn lock Oct 18 21:32:37 one more question, in the change file, i list the description which includes its name Oct 18 21:32:37 http://liqbase.net/up/liqbase_0.0.9_armel.changes Oct 18 21:32:46 how do i get rid of it, cos its not needed twice Oct 18 21:33:17 lcuk hm wait a second Oct 18 21:33:41 hrm, 7c4514c0ba3e4d2a3e8ed6bea4b054d9 1469246 user/other extra liqbase_0.0.9_armel.deb ? Oct 18 21:34:37 yes, i saw such giberish, but thought it was part of the signing, or is something else wrong Oct 18 21:34:54 <_gregorovius> lcuk: dunno if you know it, but the book navigator seems broken in the 0.09 deb in the website Oct 18 21:35:14 <_gregorovius> it doesn't show any files Oct 18 21:35:20 ive got it open now Oct 18 21:35:28 hang on a mo Oct 18 21:35:43 hmm, i don't think the deb is meant to be uploaded as the autobuilder makes a deb but i may be wrong Oct 18 21:36:00 yeri dont upload the .deb Oct 18 21:36:02 i upload the src Oct 18 21:37:05 shows books for me Oct 18 21:37:11 was just makin sure i was on correct version Oct 18 21:37:19 you cab generate source.changes with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S Oct 18 21:37:21 only .txt files are listed though Oct 18 21:38:07 <_gregorovius> ah, nevermind, my memory card isn't mounted for some reason Oct 18 21:38:07 mikkov, i built package and it gave src and deb and stuff Oct 18 21:38:26 <_gregorovius> however, it's getting choked with the stamp tool even in performance mode Oct 18 21:39:18 how many stamps are you goin for ? Oct 18 21:39:36 <_gregorovius> 2 are enough Oct 18 21:39:40 <_gregorovius> start with a blank screen Oct 18 21:39:53 <_gregorovius> pick the stamp tool and draw a big square over the whole screen Oct 18 21:39:58 <_gregorovius> and then try to do it again Oct 18 21:40:17 oh and then draw another one over full screen :D you probably go back in time Oct 18 21:40:41 its like looking in an infinite mirror - it will finish rendering sometime in the next century Oct 18 21:40:45 <_gregorovius> haha Oct 18 21:40:52 <_gregorovius> my screen went blank Oct 18 21:40:59 yer so's mine Oct 18 21:41:00 lol Oct 18 21:41:14 <_gregorovius> had to reboot =P Oct 18 21:41:25 strangely enough, so have i Oct 18 21:41:36 :D wicked though Oct 18 21:41:53 * lcuk makes a mental note to limit recursion Oct 18 21:41:57 actually, i already have Oct 18 21:42:08 its the fact they are overlapping and trying to compelte each other Oct 18 21:42:46 <_gregorovius> to understand recursion, you must first understand recursion Oct 18 21:55:52 ~last vmware Oct 18 21:56:02 ~lart vmware and my typing Oct 18 21:56:03 * infobot shoves a crumpet down vmware and my typing's throat, happy now?! Huh? Want some JAM with that? Oct 18 22:03:27 * lcuk kicks vmware in the goolies and reboots it Oct 18 22:16:49 lcuk: VirtualBox ftw Oct 18 22:17:14 neither Oct 18 22:17:59 an office big enough for me to have a build machine to swing around to would be best for my head Oct 18 22:18:26 Or just dump Windows. :P ;) Oct 18 22:18:38 ^ Oct 18 22:18:47 Grab a second monitor and a second box and use Synergy Oct 18 22:19:05 install windows into the vmware Oct 18 22:19:06 *g* Oct 18 22:19:17 Maybe get a Beagle for a build machine. Oct 18 22:20:35 hehe Oct 18 22:20:43 funny idea Oct 18 22:21:50 No scratchbox nonsense, anyway. Oct 18 22:22:48 bah. lcars theme leaves stuff behind when switching to another theme. Oct 18 22:23:30 lcuk810, is that your n810 running xchat? Oct 18 22:24:07 qole, it's in extras Oct 18 22:24:25 * qwerty12_ZzZz is using xchat on an n800 atm Oct 18 22:24:31 Yep, that's what I use Oct 18 22:24:42 qole: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/521 <- some possible speedups, but maybe only if you use ext3 Oct 18 22:24:56 whodat, blame Nokia. Oct 18 22:25:01 stylus keyboard FTW Oct 18 22:25:20 Stylus keyboard sucks ass. Oct 18 22:25:37 qole++ Oct 18 22:25:39 :p Oct 18 22:25:59 heh yes but i wasnt watchin it Oct 18 22:26:06 gen: do i have to uninstall the lcars packages just to get around it? Oct 18 22:26:18 whodat, uninstall the lcars-extras Oct 18 22:26:33 * lcuk best get into extras this time Oct 18 22:26:35 GeneralAntilles : yeah. but i wanted to leave it on here so I could occasionally use it. Oct 18 22:28:33 qole, that thing is flashing on your footer bar again Oct 18 22:29:26 does the forum allow to search your own threads? Oct 18 22:29:46 ahh, it's in the advanced search option Oct 18 22:30:28 Stskeeps, I use ext2 to avoid the overhead of journaling; but that dir_index idea looks promising... Oct 18 22:30:58 I already mount noatime too Oct 18 22:31:13 qole, you havent kiilled the builder again have you Oct 18 22:31:27 no Oct 18 22:31:54 heh good Oct 18 22:32:39 balls, can someone tell me whats still wrong with this: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/liqbase_0.1.0/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt Oct 18 22:33:17 some build-depends are still missing Oct 18 22:33:32 lcik: you need to realign the external matrifier. Oct 18 22:34:56 lcuk, if i was on my computer, i'd dig out the build-depends lines you are missing :/ Oct 18 22:35:24 qwerty12 is just a liar, though. Oct 18 22:35:30 lol Oct 18 22:35:35 Neva! :p Oct 18 22:35:45 ZzZz my ass. . . . Oct 18 22:35:51 ill try and battle on, i filled in everything it had in the check thingy Oct 18 22:35:55 lcuk whats the control file looking now? Oct 18 22:36:10 it was planned, but didn't happen :p Oct 18 22:36:24 happy now? :p Oct 18 22:36:38 woglinde, https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/liqbase_0.1.0/sources/ Oct 18 22:36:52 Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 2), x11proto-xext-dev, libpng12-dev, libjpeg62-dev, libosso-dev, libxv-dev, libxsp-dev Oct 18 22:36:58 what are the thoughts regarding ukmp vs canola2? Oct 18 22:36:58 thats what it told me to put in Oct 18 22:37:08 lcuk another tipp Oct 18 22:37:12 lcuk, eww, should have used svn export Oct 18 22:37:12 Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, libx11-6, libxext6, libxv1, libxsp0, Oct 18 22:37:23 liri: the thoughts are: use MediaBox Oct 18 22:37:58 lcuk the libx11-6 libs I think will automatic be detected with ${shlibs:Depends} Oct 18 22:38:13 lrir, UKMP is dead. Oct 18 22:38:43 reading this log, arent these the ones that are wrong? : Oct 18 22:38:44 No package 'gstreamer-0.10' found Oct 18 22:38:44 No package 'libpng12' found Oct 18 22:38:44 No package 'libosso' found Oct 18 22:39:04 GAN800: really? I thought 1.6 was just out :) Oct 18 22:39:21 GAN800: well it's sad to hear because the media listing in canola is the only disappointment I have with it Oct 18 22:39:34 lcuk: there's no spoon Oct 18 22:39:42 lcuk if you would me give write access Oct 18 22:39:52 I would fix it in a minute Oct 18 22:40:48 grab from svn and you could do a quick patch if its only a couple of minor things? Oct 18 22:41:30 lcuk ah right sorry Oct 18 22:42:08 i try to keep svn bubbled right up to the top and my super secure high quality windows installation wont let anyone ssh through it Oct 18 22:57:19 I'm quite conflicted about the N810... I have two N800s, but no N810, and it isn't because I can't afford it Oct 18 23:02:27 I'm watching the thread over on ITt about the custom SD card adaptor craves1 is making... That might interest me more in the N810 Oct 18 23:02:54 qole, it does look very interesting Oct 18 23:03:07 and it has the potential to open up a whole new suite of features Oct 18 23:05:08 qole, spend the money on next gen stuff instead. Oct 18 23:06:32 oh for sure. I almost bought a Pandora, but then I decided to let someone else debug the first ones. :) Oct 18 23:06:54 Get a Beagle when rev.c is out. Oct 18 23:07:56 I'd actually be interested in a Beagle board, is rev.c a version that will have things like USB working? Oct 18 23:07:57 * lcuk will get a beagle when it comes ready prepared with a touchscreen preattached and a linux installed Oct 18 23:08:12 usb is working Oct 18 23:08:23 Rev.C just gets EHCI working. Oct 18 23:08:32 * qole agrees with lcuk Oct 18 23:08:47 and includes the new OMAP revision with NEON fixes. Oct 18 23:08:55 lcuk, that'll never happen. Oct 18 23:09:00 maybe even the Nokia name on it :D Oct 18 23:09:19 You're looking for what's called a 'Pandora'. Oct 18 23:10:02 or, even better, "N900" Oct 18 23:10:22 That's farther away Oct 18 23:10:43 and the Beagle'd make a pretty sweet low power machine for other uses. Oct 18 23:13:04 Anyone tried BlueMaemo yet? http://www.valeriovalerio.org/?page_id=174 Oct 18 23:24:51 "Unable to update maemo-mapper. Update file corrupted." Interesting. Oct 18 23:31:22 files are in the queue again Oct 18 23:31:33 * lcuk is sick in his mouth a little Oct 18 23:39:41 Is image scaling working in MicroB for anybody with any of the recent Diablo releases? Oct 18 23:41:08 [2008-10-19 02:43:13] liqbase 0.1.1 has been queued for loading into diablo extras-devel repository Oct 18 23:41:13 ^^^^ \:D/ Oct 18 23:56:19 lcuk, thnx for that comment u made on the news thingy with the chics in the kitchen pic Oct 18 23:57:08 why? do you wanna see cloned gardeners as well? ill tell tracy to save one for you Oct 18 23:58:22 no i just appreciate your saying what u said ... it made me and gf smile :) Oct 18 23:58:54 how long do we wait for liqbase to appear in extras-devel? Oct 18 23:59:10 just refreshed, nothing there yet Oct 18 23:59:27 ummm well yeah, it technically is, but dont get it yet :$ Oct 19 00:00:09 hm, like I said, it isn't showing Oct 19 00:00:29 its showing on n2 Oct 19 00:00:37 apt-get update; apt-cache policy liqbase shows nothing yet Oct 19 00:02:22 what's n2? Oct 19 00:02:59 second nokia Oct 19 00:04:01 I don't know about that Oct 19 00:04:05 clean test machine Oct 19 00:04:32 heh, sorry nicknames thread Oct 19 00:04:54 w00t, there it is! Another refresh did the trick Oct 19 00:05:11 damn no Oct 19 00:05:12 hold on Oct 19 00:05:25 0.1.2 is goin up Oct 19 00:05:41 a qwertyism managed to creep back in Oct 19 00:05:48 ~lart qwerty12_N800 Oct 19 00:05:48 * infobot runs at qwerty12_N800 with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut Oct 19 00:06:00 iqbase: Oct 19 00:06:06 oops Oct 19 00:07:20 I'm not going to install it till you say, I just wanted to see it appear Oct 19 00:07:24 heh Oct 19 00:07:54 right at the start qwerty put a message in the preinst Oct 19 00:08:13 i thought it had gone for good, but it came back Oct 19 00:09:00 at least now thanks to woglinde's help i can upload whenever i need to :) Oct 19 00:09:34 * qole shakes woglinde's hand, vigourously Oct 19 00:09:58 [2008-10-19 03:13:18] liqbase 0.1.2 has been queued for loading into diablo extras-devel repository Oct 19 00:10:21 lcuk, might be worth adding build number to your versioning for package changes. Oct 19 00:10:35 0.1.1-2 Oct 19 00:11:16 ah right Oct 19 00:11:23 if you change in code Oct 19 00:11:36 update the rev there Oct 19 00:11:44 if you change the packaging stuff Oct 19 00:11:56 add -x Oct 19 00:12:19 only in changelog Oct 19 00:13:34 i have automatic build number incrementing Oct 19 00:14:29 21:08:21 Welcome to liqbase ver 0.0.8 build 2492 date 20081018 192933 Oct 19 00:14:35 i get things like that in the logs Oct 19 00:14:53 hm Oct 19 00:15:02 no thats onky on the builder Oct 19 00:15:54 ill just inc by 1 in the main package when i make a new one Oct 19 00:15:56 Application manager says "0.1.1" Oct 19 00:16:03 Add a hyphen and a build number on the end. Oct 19 00:16:06 iyeah cos its not there yet Oct 19 00:16:10 "0.1.1-3" Oct 19 00:16:58 why didnt u lot tell me this before :P Oct 19 00:17:10 im not uploadin another fluffin package Oct 19 00:18:03 Wait until your next update Oct 19 00:18:12 It'll make things easier for versioning. Oct 19 00:18:48 going outside for the last of the daylight... Oct 19 00:18:57 so the build number on the end isnt really important as long as its incrementing Oct 19 00:19:08 alright qole, speak to you later or somethin Oct 19 00:19:14 have fun Oct 19 00:21:22 whoa fuck Oct 19 00:25:26 is it just me or is diablo worse then chinook? Oct 19 00:25:36 It's just you. Oct 19 00:25:49 Okay Oct 19 00:26:20 the browser seems less stable to me :-) Oct 19 00:26:27 so far I have modest misbehaving twice in 24 hours; the old osso-mail was better then this; then there is the static addressing issue Oct 19 00:26:53 and the watchdog is stabbing me more often.. :( Oct 19 00:27:22 and it seems like a lot more packages fail to install but I can't blame that on diablo... that's progress Oct 19 00:28:08 The browser is significantly faster and more stable for me, much better mail client, much better package manager, tap-to-hide info banners Oct 19 00:28:11 etc, etc, etc. Oct 19 00:28:33 * moontiger hates the email client Oct 19 00:28:35 ShadowJK_, are you using stupid browser ad-ons? Oct 19 00:28:38 but thats just me Oct 19 00:28:44 in 24hours of usage, I wouldn't say the mail client is better... it just has a different set of bugs Oct 19 00:28:54 GeneralAntilles, no I disabled flash and the media playing stuff Oct 19 00:29:09 Modest has been very solid for me. Oct 19 00:29:21 I don't know why people are having trouble. Oct 19 00:29:25 strokes for folks :) Oct 19 00:29:27 oh and focus issues with the address bar :) Oct 19 00:30:04 moontiger, no, more like "what's triggering these bugs". Oct 19 00:30:13 problems so far - The client GUI has refused to open til I reboot the tablet; the inbox vanishing (account is shown but inbox is not there; client stuck forever 'retreiving'; the GUI just sitting there (slow? sorting?) Oct 19 00:30:54 ds3, you are running 36-5, right? Oct 19 00:30:54 GeneralAntilles, oic ... i dont use it as it is unusable for me in terms of functionality and ui Oct 19 00:31:17 When you know what triggers bugs it's much easier to fix them. Oct 19 00:31:19 but i see ur point ... we all have the same code in rom Oct 19 00:31:23 RX-34_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Oct 19 00:31:35 ds3, did you install either of the SSU updates? Oct 19 00:31:39 + the OS updates automatically installed Oct 19 00:31:51 only update not installed is the update for "Map" (not used) Oct 19 00:32:06 killall modest in xterm should fix it if it stalls on you, though. Oct 19 00:32:33 that's what I had to do to stop it after it got stuck in the "Retreiving..." state Oct 19 00:33:35 Supposedly at least one of the Modest crasher bugs is fixed in the week 38 build. Oct 19 00:34:02 but the updater is suppose to be able to pull that in, right? Oct 19 00:34:34 My theory is - they are cutting corner on QA'ing the packages and since i am using a less common config, I just get all tbe bugs Oct 19 00:34:58 that's the only way I can explain the networking problem Oct 19 00:35:05 I don't think it's "cutting corners", they're just not very good at it. Oct 19 00:35:16 They, apparently, don't test on N800s anymore. Oct 19 00:35:17 GeneralAntilles, i think modest is being used in extreme situations and was never really tested with those things Oct 19 00:35:31 It's also a relatively young application. Oct 19 00:35:35 right Oct 19 00:35:53 i mean people are saying "i have 196000 emails and when i use imap modest crashes" Oct 19 00:35:58 Right Oct 19 00:36:08 i mean really ... 196000 emails in one folder??!! Oct 19 00:36:19 its a freaking tablet for god sake Oct 19 00:36:42 There's a conflict between people wanting to use it for 30GB inboxes and 17 accounts when it was designed to run on devices with hardware equivalent to desktops from 7-8 years ago. Oct 19 00:36:56 GeneralAntilles: You are right about the browser being a bit better in diablo though... the 15-30 second rendering stuff seems to be gone Oct 19 00:37:07 right ... i have 3 accounts but only keep 200 - 500 emails on my tablet Oct 19 00:37:14 I just need to run it longer to see if the battery drain issues are still there Oct 19 00:37:37 I think I have about 50000 emails, but not all in one folder.. Oct 19 00:37:58 if i had that many emails i would totally use folders to organise Oct 19 00:38:07 it should crash with that much mail... taking forever or refusing to retrieve would be a more appropriate behavior Oct 19 00:38:11 I haven't thought of a clever way to automatically sort a subset for viewing through tablet or cellphone.. Oct 19 00:38:29 ShadowJK_, yah on my cellphone i am very careful Oct 19 00:38:53 i find that gmail with the "recent"..." thing and limit to the last 3 days email works for me on my fone Oct 19 00:39:04 but you know, with imap I wouldn't want the client to load all the emails anyway... Oct 19 00:39:23 having these tablets do as well as the crummy mail client that ships with the Palm Treo 650 is not unreasonable Oct 19 00:39:56 ds3, again i would say modest is a very young app ... claws copes much better imho Oct 19 00:40:31 moontiger: what's the linage of modest? is it a direct descendant of osso-mail? Oct 19 00:40:47 no ... afaik it is based on tiny-mail backend Oct 19 00:40:52 with a custom front end Oct 19 00:40:58 Camel Oct 19 00:40:58 right GeneralAntilles ? Oct 19 00:40:58 ah Oct 19 00:41:04 thnx :) Oct 19 00:41:24 tinymail is based on Camel Oct 19 00:41:30 ah ok Oct 19 00:41:33 tinymail is Modest's backend Oct 19 00:41:47 what's osso-mail based on? Oct 19 00:41:56 horse crap? Oct 19 00:42:02 Nothing Oct 19 00:42:07 should i promote it? or wait a few days Oct 19 00:42:08 It's Nokia's crappy proprietary client. Oct 19 00:42:14 lcuk, wait. Oct 19 00:42:15 Hmmm Oct 19 00:42:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modest_(e-mail_client) Oct 19 00:42:34 I with djcb had actually given me material for that article. Oct 19 00:43:01 It's not very heartening that most of the development team seems to have moved on from the project after it shipped Oct 19 00:43:07 especially while it's still in such a beta state. :\ Oct 19 00:43:32 it has improved from the beta version; the beta didn't work at all for me (POP3S setup) Oct 19 00:43:59 okay back to finding where all the old utilies are... Oct 19 00:44:41 * moontiger would love to have time to write a new email client Oct 19 00:44:47 before I dig through all the old ITT postings, anyone know what is the name of that status bar applet that displays load, memory usage, and can have a clock overlayed on there? Oct 19 00:44:52 Patch Modest! Oct 19 00:45:14 think it also provides a way of launching command line stuff Oct 19 00:45:23 loadapplet or something Oct 19 00:45:25 osso-statusbar-cpu Oct 19 00:45:53 there were two related ones listed in the repos Oct 19 00:46:20 Yes, that's it. Thanks Oct 19 00:49:33 GeneralAntilles, i would love to but imo the ui is a complete mess Oct 19 00:50:05 one more item to find... nokia used to have a beta package to add "native" support for AIM.. is that still available for diablo? I notice it has SIP support built in now Oct 19 00:50:09 is the current source available? Oct 19 00:50:43 Of course! Oct 19 00:50:50 They have a Garage project and everything. Oct 19 00:50:58 hmmmmmm Oct 19 00:51:03 ds3, rtcomm beta. Oct 19 00:51:10 It's moving (slowly) to Extras-devel. Oct 19 00:51:15 ok when i finish the phonehome thing i'll have a look Oct 19 00:51:23 http://modest.garage.maemo.org/ Oct 19 00:51:37 GA: thanks again. Having the name makes looking for updates so much easier Oct 19 01:26:59 * GeneralAntilles wonders who broke iTab. Oct 19 01:27:41 The guy's been fed the directions to flash his tablet in a dozen different threads on at least 3 forums and he still can't figure it out. Oct 19 01:27:58 is there something else that needs to be installed in addition to account-haze? accounts shows AIM as an option but creating an account fails; it never creates anything on the list Oct 19 01:28:17 telepathy-plugin-haze Oct 19 01:29:26 what repo is that in? Oct 19 01:30:29 The Collabora repo Oct 19 01:30:42 It'll probably be listed on gronmayer.com/it Oct 19 01:31:01 I have that repo added but no telepathy-plugin-haze Oct 19 01:31:30 account-plugin-haze is the exact name I have installed Oct 19 01:31:59 Anything telepathy-haze-something? Oct 19 01:32:04 How about telepathy-haze? Oct 19 01:32:16 nope. just telephaty-idle and telepathy-salut Oct 19 01:32:43 Is telepathy-haze already installed? Oct 19 01:33:01 nopr, checked that... unless I need redpill mode for this? Oct 19 01:33:14 Shouldn't Oct 19 01:33:22 apt-get is better than Red Pill, anyway. Oct 19 01:34:11 let see what manual browsing of the repo turns up Oct 19 01:35:26 it shows it but not in the app mgr Oct 19 01:38:04 it shows it in red pill mode :/ Oct 19 01:38:42 Red Pill is bad Oct 19 01:38:47 apt-get install telepathy-haze instead. Oct 19 01:38:55 Could be conflicting with the package in Extras-devel. Oct 19 01:39:10 They're kind of in a state of transition right now Oct 19 01:39:22 for some reason it's taking a really long time to get all of the packages into Extras-devel. Oct 19 01:39:38 gnite GeneralAntilles, ds3, rest of chan Oct 19 01:39:48 Don't let the bed bugs bite. Oct 19 01:39:52 gan, thanks for earlier, i broke your html though :$ so reverted Oct 19 01:39:57 nite lcuk Oct 19 01:40:03 lol Oct 19 01:40:08 * lcuk is a htmlrapist :( Oct 19 01:40:26 but liqbase is in extras-devel \o/ Oct 19 01:40:50 gnite Oct 19 01:46:35 nite lcuk Oct 19 01:47:13 * moontiger goes off to kill aliens Oct 19 01:47:17 bye all Oct 19 02:17:33 hmm, i just noticed that maemo seems to put the focus wrong when one have multiple windows of the same type open and wants to switch between them. the focus is allways on the top most, even if thats not the window your currently looking at... Oct 19 02:18:49 What application? Oct 19 02:20:56 i noticed it with browser, by it may be a general issue Oct 19 02:21:52 right now i have 3 different browser window open, and the focus indicator is alway at the top most of the 3 when i open the small menu by tapping the browser window "button" on the left side Oct 19 02:23:02 as in, you cant use that indicator to tell what window you where looking at last, and i have found myself using the corner window list instead as there the focus follows the open window Oct 19 02:23:39 if i dont, i may end up opening the same window over and over while trying to jump to a different one of the same type Oct 19 02:27:45 might crummy code from the brower's ancestry as FF/Mozilla does not always behave right in a point to focus environment Oct 19 02:29:53 well its not internal to the browser itself, but window swapping. i just noticed it on the browser as its the one i mostly have more then one window of open at the same time... Oct 19 02:30:30 the FF/Mozilla stuff has all sorts of stuff to grab focus at when it should so... Oct 19 02:31:36 ok, let me try to explain again as i see it was a mess earlier Oct 19 02:32:41 when one open more then one window of the same app, the icon on the left side gets a small number in the corner, and when the icon is tapped a menu appears. the focus indicator on that menu will not follow what window you had open last, but instead be on the top of the list, allways Oct 19 02:33:31 Hrm Oct 19 02:33:38 this is independent of the workload of the different app windows, as i currently have 3 browser windows open showing 3 different local text files, something that should not trigger a focus steal at all Oct 19 02:33:42 Probably more of a UI spec bug than a real code bug. Oct 19 02:33:50 Go file a bug, anyway. Oct 19 02:33:55 will do Oct 19 02:34:10 At the very least, the behavior is confusing. Oct 19 02:34:21 highly Oct 19 02:36:33 hey, anyone know where to find a good runlevel editor like sysv-rc-conf? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 19 02:59:56 2008