**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 20 02:59:57 2008 Oct 20 03:00:10 lcuk: still dont have it yet :( Oct 20 03:00:47 gah! Oct 20 03:01:04 he said maybe tomorrow .. so I dont know yet Oct 20 03:01:10 heh Oct 20 03:01:20 hes willing to sell for $150 .. which is all im willing to pay Oct 20 03:01:58 Does the nokia's webcam work in flash player? on n800? Oct 20 03:02:12 No Oct 20 03:02:15 damn :( Oct 20 03:02:30 Flash 9 doesn't support v4l2 Oct 20 03:02:42 thats what the camera is? Oct 20 03:02:45 v4l2? Oct 20 03:02:59 ahh only v4l2 recognizes it? Oct 20 03:03:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video4Linux Oct 20 03:03:13 i know what v4l is Oct 20 03:03:19 didnt know there was a v2 too Oct 20 03:03:21 though* Oct 20 03:04:18 is videochat in gizmo smooth? Oct 20 03:19:09 GAN800, http://liqbase.net/#images Oct 20 03:20:24 Is maemo opensource? Oct 20 03:20:39 some of it Oct 20 03:22:31 Is diablo the same as OS2008? just "faster" and bug fixes? Oct 20 03:22:35 like the UI ? Oct 20 03:22:41 diablo the same as chinook* Oct 20 03:23:18 See the wikipedia article. Oct 20 03:23:58 lcuk, nice Oct 20 03:24:05 Also, is scuumvm worth while on it? Oct 20 03:24:21 Works fine Oct 20 03:25:46 GAN800, my head has exploded due to the recursion Oct 20 03:25:56 When is Freemantle suppose to come out ( looking at maemo wikipedia ) ? Oct 20 03:26:09 There isn't a date Oct 20 03:26:17 Maybe summer 2009 Oct 20 03:26:33 oh .. far Oct 20 03:42:16 night Oct 20 04:26:47 Macer, hallo? Oct 20 04:28:53 rying to get PC Connectivity running on my N810. I go into theUSB Networking control panel and click "Setup USB networking". I can see via ifconfig that my ip address is 192.168.1.15. In the /etc/network/interfaces file the settings for usb0 inet static are: address 192.168.1.15; netmask 255.255.255.0; gateway 192.168.1.14. My mac's ipaddress is 192.168.1.5; netmask 255.255.255.0; gateway 192.168.1.1. Oct 20 04:28:53 [1:28pm] TokyoDan: then I connect the USB cable to the two and the N810 says USB Connected followed by USB Disconnected. I think this is correct because the N810's disks aren't mounted on my Mac desktop. But when I try to ping 192.168.1.15 from my mac I get no route to host / host is down. WhaT am I doing wrong? Oct 20 04:31:01 what's the IP address of your Mac's other net connection? is it also on the 192.168.1.0 network? Oct 20 04:32:13 What other connection. My ethernet is 192.168.1.5 Oct 20 04:32:49 alright, so what's the IP of the USB connection on the Mac's side? Oct 20 04:33:25 no USB connection appears on the Mac Oct 20 04:33:44 in network control panel Oct 20 04:33:59 errr...just run ifconfig -a from the Mac command line Oct 20 04:34:17 ok Oct 20 04:34:52 nothing about USB Oct 20 04:35:31 it might not be called "usb" The mac will probably think about it as a normal ethernet adapter attached my USB Oct 20 04:35:38 just en0: 192.168.1.5 Oct 20 04:36:08 I wonder if it needs a driver... Oct 20 04:36:20 there are no other I addresses displayed. Oct 20 04:36:54 it's not showing the tablet's sd cards on the Mac now, right? Oct 20 04:37:19 Once when I plugged the USB cable in my Mac popped up a new interface added dialog which went away before I could do anything with it. but it never appears anymore. Oct 20 04:37:36 no SD cards. Oct 20 04:37:38 interesting Oct 20 04:38:24 Because I clicked the Setup USB Networking in the N810 USB Networking control panel that is installed with the PC Connectivity package. Oct 20 04:39:20 does ifconfig on the tablet still show the usb iface as up? Oct 20 04:39:23 If I restart the N810 and don't click Setup USB Networkng I can get the SD cards mounted on the Mac desktop. Oct 20 04:39:49 yes Oct 20 04:40:00 Yes, it needs a driver. Oct 20 04:40:39 which needs a driver? Oct 20 04:41:16 Funny thing is it was working a month ago. I could ping the N810 from my mac. But now I can't Oct 20 04:41:29 I could also ssh to the n810 Oct 20 04:42:04 the usb IP adderess of the N810 is 192.168.1.15 Oct 20 04:42:19 mac is 192.168.1.5 Oct 20 04:42:41 did they have different IPs a month ago? Oct 20 04:42:57 the gateways are different but I think it doesn't matter cause the mac's gateway in my router, Oct 20 04:43:55 I don't now what the N810's gateway is for. ITs set at 192.168.1.14. tried setting it to the samp IP as my mac and the router too. Oct 20 04:44:30 I'm just a little curious about how your Mac is handling two different devices on the same network...but maybe my IPv4 is rusty Oct 20 04:46:00 Johnx. When I installed PC Connectivity, the IPs were set at 192.9.2.x and I couldn't ping so I edited the interfaces file on the N810 to 192.168.1.x and then could png. But today when I looked at the interfaces file the ips reverted to 192.168.2.x for some reason. But anything I do doesn't work. Oct 20 04:47:21 i think the USB network will be different than the ethernet network. Maybe the Mac should act as a router but I can't get the mac to show / add a new interface. Oct 20 04:47:43 well, GeneralAntilles thinks you need a driver Oct 20 04:47:58 and I think you should leave the n8x0 on the 192.168.2.x net Oct 20 04:48:26 Once a new interface dialog popped up on the Mac when connected the N810 via USB. But the dialog went away just as quick as it appeared. Oct 20 04:49:26 I see. So then the Mac should act as router between the 192.168.1.x and 192.168.2.x networks. Oct 20 04:49:45 That's my thinking Oct 20 04:49:52 or rather, that's how I'd do it Oct 20 04:50:14 well I set the N810 back to the original IPs and restart everything and see what happens. Oct 20 04:50:34 Thanks for your suggestions. Oct 20 05:08:59 Why not just use wifi ssh? . . . Oct 20 05:17:12 what's the going price for a dead 770? Oct 20 05:18:10 how much you willing to pay me to take it? Oct 20 05:18:18 $0.50 Oct 20 05:18:25 yo johnx Oct 20 05:18:29 all I want is the plastics Oct 20 05:18:40 thats the future, my boy. Oct 20 05:18:41 hey Luria Oct 20 05:18:45 got this wild idea of sticking in OMAP3 guts with a N810 LCD Oct 20 05:18:59 but I really really like the 'armouring' on the 770 Oct 20 05:19:04 just dropped $390 ar on a graphics card Oct 20 05:19:43 a little steep Oct 20 05:19:55 for gaming or serious CAD? Oct 20 05:20:06 neither actually Oct 20 05:20:10 gaming, sure Oct 20 05:20:17 but cuda is interesting to me Oct 20 05:20:21 aaah Oct 20 05:20:32 limited me to 2.5 cards Oct 20 05:20:40 and now that cs4 is cuda aware Oct 20 05:21:00 am I the only one that likes the armouring on the 770? Oct 20 05:21:06 plus a friend of mine had a visualization lab, i want to put it against his quadro Oct 20 05:21:10 ds3 - yes Oct 20 05:21:16 ds3, it's a neat idea, but it's overkill Oct 20 05:21:33 my n800 has held up just fine in pockets and bags for the last year and a half Oct 20 05:22:13 johnx: and you are not worry about crushing the screen through the pouch? Oct 20 05:22:20 Not at all. Oct 20 05:22:23 what pouch? Oct 20 05:22:32 I never got a pouch Oct 20 05:22:33 have had no probs with either n810 or n800 Oct 20 05:22:34 It's not like it's a particularly fragile screen Oct 20 05:22:35 the leather pouch Oct 20 05:22:46 I just throw it loose in my backpack/bag or pocket Oct 20 05:22:49 Hmmm Oct 20 05:22:57 Kinda looks like this: http://talkaboutnseries.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/nokia-n810-internet-tablet-pouch.jpg Oct 20 05:23:16 They're really fairly durable devices. Oct 20 05:23:22 no visible screen scratches and actually even the plastic looks ok, except where I dropped it on concrete a couple times Oct 20 05:23:27 A this: http://pocketables.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/06/n800_unbox_case2.jpg Oct 20 05:23:46 I should take a picture of my Treo 650's hard case... about 2years worth of wear and it looks like someone tossed in a blender for a day Oct 20 05:23:47 you guys with your fancy retail box accessories :P Oct 20 05:23:52 haha Oct 20 05:23:58 How come you didn't get that stuff? Oct 20 05:24:04 demo/floor model Oct 20 05:24:08 ah Oct 20 05:24:20 30% off in march 2007 was too good to pass up Oct 20 05:24:28 johnx: in japan? Oct 20 05:24:39 ds3, nope, right before I left for Japan Oct 20 05:24:46 oh Oct 20 05:25:07 It's awkward for me to keep electronics in my pockets, I have wallet and ID cards on one side and my keys on the other, there just isn't enough room. Oct 20 05:25:16 you need more pockets :) Oct 20 05:25:25 You need what some people like to call "back pockets" Oct 20 05:25:40 back pockets are only a last resort Oct 20 05:25:45 ehh I don't like putting things in my back pockets Oct 20 05:25:54 you need proper pants with at least 6 pockets Oct 20 05:25:55 I have a bony butt >.> Oct 20 05:26:06 eh, i forget my n810 in my jeans back pocket, metal frame ftw Oct 20 05:26:10 * Gracana provides information; too much of it Oct 20 05:26:32 I' Oct 20 05:26:34 blargh Oct 20 05:26:34 my pockets are about the height of a table top which means I can do a lot of damage if I bump into a table corner Oct 20 05:27:00 ds3, hence cargo pants with pockets at knee height Oct 20 05:27:02 I'm not a fan of putting things in lower pockets (like on the thighs in cargo pants) because I just end up hitting it when I run or skateboard Oct 20 05:27:16 you know, there should be a #hotdeals Oct 20 05:27:32 im trying to figure out if the gtx 280 sc was worth it Oct 20 05:27:33 A DX cluster for shopping Oct 20 05:27:45 johnx: that sounds worse... I crawl around a lot to look at stuff (wiring, etc) Oct 20 05:28:08 i guess i ended up buying the physx card Oct 20 05:28:13 I guess they're more thigh height now that I think of it *shrugs* Oct 20 05:31:36 johnx, any thoughts on cuda? you seemed... not disagreeable Oct 20 05:32:15 it's an interesting concept, but I just threw about the same amount of money at a pandora as you did at a cuda. Priorities I guess :) Oct 20 05:32:31 plus, it doesn't look like anything takes advantage of it under linux yet Oct 20 05:32:37 when do you expect delivery of the Pandora? Oct 20 05:32:52 uh, dude, weve been hanging out in #openpandora together since the 30th Oct 20 05:33:12 well, I was within the first 15 minutes of orders, so if they end up going by first come, first served...maybe around halfway through november? Oct 20 05:33:28 Luria, ahaha Oct 20 05:33:32 * johnx facepalms Oct 20 05:33:44 that's pretty quick... Oct 20 05:34:13 ah power vr vs gtx 200 Oct 20 05:34:17 heh Oct 20 05:34:17 Luria, sorry. I suck at attaching names to conversations :/ Oct 20 05:34:22 np Oct 20 05:34:45 speaking of powervr Oct 20 05:34:52 anyone remember the matrox m3d Oct 20 05:35:02 i just found mine Oct 20 05:35:55 I'm surprised that tile based rendering didn't really catch on widely...but also didn't die off Oct 20 05:36:04 must be patents I guess? Oct 20 05:36:38 http://www.woot.com/ Oct 20 05:37:02 nice and cheap Oct 20 05:37:13 not bad Oct 20 05:37:23 but i never use my bluespoon Oct 20 05:37:24 Plantronics seems to make decent stuff. Oct 20 05:37:38 yeah i like my plantronics usb headset Oct 20 05:37:39 I already have combo bt headphones/headset, otherwise...I might be tempted Oct 20 05:38:06 * GeneralAntilles continues waiting on the logo svgs. . . . Oct 20 05:38:57 I'm waiting on my 2 power squids from woot a couple tuesdays ago. Oct 20 05:39:09 mmmm sushi Oct 20 05:39:32 * johnx waits on a build of illume Oct 20 05:39:35 I've got 2 outlets by my computers here, it'll be really nice to have them. Oct 20 05:39:40 mmm sashimi Oct 20 05:39:49 toro ftw Oct 20 05:40:09 * Gracana has two computers, speakers, two monitors, a laptop, a ps3, a fan, a lamp, a network switch, :| Oct 20 05:40:21 20amps ftw Oct 20 05:40:38 heh...I keep tripping the 30amp breaker in my apartment Oct 20 05:40:39 just got $25 newegg gb 8-port Oct 20 05:40:51 use a penny Oct 20 05:40:55 :X Oct 20 05:40:57 nothing will break Oct 20 05:41:32 will a one yen piece work? Oct 20 05:41:43 dunno if I have any pennies at hand... Oct 20 05:42:04 pennys have better thermal conductivity, surface relative to mass Oct 20 05:42:20 oh shit, i need a new psu for my "new" 8 core box Oct 20 05:42:58 johnx: what do you plan to use the pandora for? games ? Oct 20 05:43:01 sad that fire promoting electrical plans made me think of that Oct 20 05:43:09 chronotrigger Oct 20 05:43:13 and sf2 Oct 20 05:43:21 thats what my pandora will do Oct 20 05:43:26 I would advise against using a penny for a circuit breaker. Oct 20 05:43:30 packet injection, if it can Oct 20 05:43:34 ds3, games, web browsing, dictionary, video Oct 20 05:43:37 probably not music Oct 20 05:43:46 so differnent things then the N800 Oct 20 05:44:05 If anything /does/ go wrong, you've got your entire 200A service (maybe 100A if you're lucky) to dump through your house wiring. Oct 20 05:44:12 Gracana, yeah. one of those little aluminum one yen pieces will work much better :) Oct 20 05:44:12 And that would be a tough insurance claim to make. Oct 20 05:44:23 :| Oct 20 05:44:33 live dangerously Oct 20 05:44:46 Gracana: maybe his house is wired with 1/2" dia solid copper bars ;) Oct 20 05:44:58 I hope so. Oct 20 05:44:59 <|thunder> mine seems to be Oct 20 05:45:16 28 awg Oct 20 05:45:16 <|thunder> its a real faraday cage Oct 20 05:45:31 thats called at&t Oct 20 05:45:37 Gracana, I've got at least double that. :P Oct 20 05:45:48 heh...I don't even have ground pins on my outlets :) Oct 20 05:45:50 :P Oct 20 05:46:08 johnx: aren't there parts of japan on DC? Oct 20 05:46:23 ds3, maybe in the middle of nowhere? Oct 20 05:46:36 but I was in the town next to the middle of nowhere and the still had 100v AC Oct 20 05:46:44 Top-of-the-line APC UPS (consumer grade), and two more 8-port strips. Oct 20 05:46:45 I heard Japan has 2 different power systems Oct 20 05:46:48 half of the country is on 50Hz and half on 60Hz though Oct 20 05:46:59 Oh just the freq difference Oct 20 05:47:01 <|thunder> all I really use my n800 for is video chat and mp3 player via bluetooth earpiece at work Oct 20 05:47:19 ds3, yeah. screwed me up though. I brought an alarm clock over Oct 20 05:47:25 oh ahahha Oct 20 05:47:41 plugged my US 110-120v 60Hz clock into a 100v 50Hz outlet Oct 20 05:47:44 guess what happened? Oct 20 05:47:49 boom? Oct 20 05:47:50 it ran 5/6 as fast Oct 20 05:47:53 Ran slow Oct 20 05:47:55 Hehe Oct 20 05:47:55 not even kidding Oct 20 05:47:56 honest boss, it is the power system's fault for me being late ;) Oct 20 05:47:59 hah Oct 20 05:48:11 <|thunder> any idea when the new canola beta will be released ? Oct 20 05:48:21 |thunder, soon. Oct 20 05:48:29 It's available in Extras-devel if you're impatient. Oct 20 05:48:50 so thats how the 50 minute hour was born Oct 20 05:49:12 <|thunder> GeneralAntilles; thanks. im hopeful it will fix the randon freeze bug Oct 20 05:49:19 * GeneralAntilles considers working on some cool trademark guidelines for maemo.org Oct 20 05:58:18 * Stskeeps tries desperately to wake up Oct 20 05:58:28 new laptops and desktops really stopped being interesting to me Oct 20 05:58:55 * qwerty12 pours water on Stskeeps Oct 20 05:59:08 * johnx pours coffee on Stskeeps Oct 20 05:59:11 huh? Oct 20 05:59:12 mm. coffee. Oct 20 05:59:47 Luria, I dunno. It seems like it's just more of the same. Meanwhile embedded stuff improves by leaps and bounds Oct 20 06:00:26 re my gtx thing? Oct 20 06:00:36 not really re anything Oct 20 06:00:43 digging throu engadget and gizmodo rss feeds Oct 20 06:00:47 idk, soc is neat, but still Oct 20 06:00:50 just a non-sequitor :) Oct 20 06:00:57 not so far from my 5600 Oct 20 06:01:13 i want more battery life Oct 20 06:01:22 like rtg life Oct 20 06:01:34 :) I've had the same thoughts Oct 20 06:01:57 doesnt every geek want a nuclear computer? Oct 20 06:02:10 tho, rtg is pretty inefficient Oct 20 06:02:22 and either heavy or lethal :) Oct 20 06:02:23 Luria: making you sterile, eh? Oct 20 06:02:24 :P Oct 20 06:02:25 choose one Oct 20 06:03:06 Luria, want me to pick you up a spare one from an abandoned automated light house in Russia? Oct 20 06:03:10 give me a rtg powered artificial heart, kids become pointless Oct 20 06:03:18 Anybody already compiled valgrind for the tablet ? Oct 20 06:03:30 * Stskeeps would like to see fuel cells, personally Oct 20 06:03:30 sure, send it over on a spare icbm Oct 20 06:03:43 direct one mirv to midtown manhattan Oct 20 06:03:46 ill catch it Oct 20 06:04:40 fuel cells are about 20-40% better than li-ion right? Oct 20 06:04:55 I don't know how I feel about having to go to the store for refills Oct 20 06:05:35 need some way to capitalize on human radiated energy Oct 20 06:06:02 feeding off 2.4ghz band Oct 20 06:06:20 borrowing wasted kinetic energy seems more worthwhile Oct 20 06:07:10 I want little jet engines in my devices. Oct 20 06:07:35 GeneralAntilles, that would make for a real nasty DoS if they were in your pocket Oct 20 06:07:37 It's a logical step. Some devices already have rockets. Oct 20 06:07:55 * Gracana 's laptop bursts into flames Oct 20 06:08:04 dear god.. interview with rick astley in newspaper today Oct 20 06:08:18 the internet has started to cross way too much into reality Oct 20 06:08:30 Didn't you hear? The internet is reality now. :P Oct 20 06:08:37 Stskeeps, you don't know the half of it O_o Oct 20 06:08:58 apparently some countries let the 4chan guys leave their houses... Oct 20 06:09:05 Hehe Oct 20 06:09:44 ill grow a vein just to turn a dynamo Oct 20 06:10:39 wikiality Oct 20 06:10:40 Unless there's a really significant breakthrough in power storage technology, I don't think we're likely to venture out of the 3-14 hour range. Oct 20 06:11:09 As storage gets better, we just get more performance and more stuff Oct 20 06:12:04 efficient device idling is the current frontier Oct 20 06:12:20 it'll confuse the hell out of some people though Oct 20 06:12:20 30 days with an N800 idling is scary Oct 20 06:12:31 I bet you a well-managed OMAP3 could double that. Oct 20 06:12:42 It _already_ confuses the hell out of some people. Oct 20 06:12:49 heh Oct 20 06:13:17 just imagine on laptops "I installed norton and now I can't stay away from power for more than 15 minutes! my laptop is b0rken!" Oct 20 06:13:20 Just look at all the people turning their tablets off everytime they put them away to "save battery". Oct 20 06:13:26 Ha Oct 20 06:13:40 The pitfalls of ridiculously aggressive powersaving. Oct 20 06:13:58 heh... rebooting takes out huge chunks of battery life! Oct 20 06:14:07 2 days idle Oct 20 06:14:19 <|thunder> ds3; it comes back. Oct 20 06:14:26 I still think part of that is an artifact of battery life measurement being reset or something on reboot Oct 20 06:14:33 |thunder, no, it doesn't. Oct 20 06:14:48 I think most of it was never there Oct 20 06:14:49 <|thunder> i just bought 2 new nokia batts on ebay for 11$ free shipping from hong kong Oct 20 06:14:52 johnx, well, personally, I trust igor's word on it. ;) Oct 20 06:15:08 GeneralAntilles, it's intensive, but it's not as intensive as some people are thinking Oct 20 06:15:42 * GeneralAntilles shrugs. Oct 20 06:15:54 <|thunder> mine does, it will say 3 hours and spontaniously reboot, then say less than an hour, then go up to 1 hours. but then say 1 hr for 2 hrs, then say less than 1 hr for an hour. thats 3 hours Oct 20 06:16:04 The guy that does power management stuff for Nokia says so, sooo. :P Oct 20 06:16:39 and I still think there's something else at play in *some cases* Oct 20 06:16:45 * johnx 's a skeptic Oct 20 06:16:45 <|thunder> but then again, I get those results with the screen locked listening to mp3 via canola and bt earpiece Oct 20 06:16:47 The battery applet isn't known for accuracy. Oct 20 06:16:58 Meanwhile: http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/20/intel-unveils-worlds-first-working-moorestown-mid/ Oct 20 06:17:03 I'm not talking about 2 days off the idle time reported in the applet. Oct 20 06:17:08 <|thunder> i drain my n800 daily. since march Oct 20 06:17:27 <|thunder> still lasts me all day unless the screen is on constantly and wifi buzzing Oct 20 06:17:53 fuck i hate left wing nutsos Oct 20 06:18:06 Hehe Oct 20 06:18:10 cell phones are really dangerous Oct 20 06:18:11 I hate stupid people. :D Oct 20 06:18:20 thats why cancer is so high Oct 20 06:18:23 wtd Oct 20 06:18:25 wtf Oct 20 06:18:44 RST38h, x86 just doesn't do it for me. Oct 20 06:18:45 no, cancer is high because dumb people live too long Oct 20 06:18:47 <|thunder> that and people dont eat cabbage Oct 20 06:19:15 Mmmm, cabbage Oct 20 06:19:19 Luria, or live near toxic dumping grounds Oct 20 06:19:43 half life or highly radioactive Oct 20 06:19:56 pick one or discover free energy Oct 20 06:20:15 just thinking heavy metals and industrial solvents Oct 20 06:20:38 mmmm yummy alpha particles Oct 20 06:20:44 People live a lot longer than they used to. Oct 20 06:20:51 Way more time to get cancer Oct 20 06:20:53 anyways, I'm pro-fission :) Oct 20 06:21:01 better than strip mining coal Oct 20 06:21:08 Amen Oct 20 06:21:18 Though nuclear energy isn't an answer Oct 20 06:21:26 <|thunder> geo thermal is the way to go, free power from hell Oct 20 06:21:32 yes it is Oct 20 06:21:35 Since there's no way we enough enough fuel. Oct 20 06:21:37 |thunder, everyone should move to greenland? Oct 20 06:21:41 but whats the question? Oct 20 06:22:00 Complete and total replacement of all fossil fuels with nuclear. Oct 20 06:22:14 <|thunder> yellowstone can power the whole country. worlds largest caldrea Oct 20 06:22:18 I want to see the solar power beaming satellites from Sim City. Oct 20 06:22:22 the question: How do we convince people to use less energy Oct 20 06:22:24 <|thunder> is it yellowstone ? i think so Oct 20 06:22:30 johnx, penalty of death. Oct 20 06:22:34 uh those were microwave plants Oct 20 06:22:41 and they miss Oct 20 06:22:45 <|thunder> carbon emission tax coming to a neighborhood near you soon Oct 20 06:22:50 Luria, good! More dead stupid people. ;) Oct 20 06:22:52 right when i send in godzilla Oct 20 06:22:52 GeneralAntilles, starting up your enforcement posse? Oct 20 06:23:04 johnx, yeah, I'm hitting your house first. :P Oct 20 06:23:39 i actually met someone working for a start up modeling energy use and pollution Oct 20 06:23:47 GeneralAntilles, lulz. throw the first stone indeed... Oct 20 06:23:50 just got a uk gov contract Oct 20 06:23:52 Hehe Oct 20 06:24:12 my gtx will do wonders for the environment Oct 20 06:24:14 johnx, it's everybody _else's_ fault, remember? ;) Oct 20 06:24:23 We should force everybody to switch to ARM. Oct 20 06:24:37 and force them to stop driving cars :) Oct 20 06:24:37 and dumb "environmentalists" have done wonders in stopping nuclear proliferation Oct 20 06:24:44 great, coal ftw Oct 20 06:24:54 Hehe Oct 20 06:25:00 a beagle box on every desktop Oct 20 06:25:14 and an n800 on every bicycle :) Oct 20 06:25:44 my mother was once complaining about "radiation" and was going on with this long diatribe Oct 20 06:25:46 <|thunder> too bad they are out of production Oct 20 06:25:48 People need to drive more and bigger cars Oct 20 06:25:52 run out the oil supply faster. Oct 20 06:26:08 <|thunder> i agree, necessity is the mother of invention Oct 20 06:26:12 i got sick of listening, so i turned off all the lights in the house to show my support Oct 20 06:26:17 * GeneralAntilles is going to invent a way for one person to drive two or three cars at once. Oct 20 06:26:24 GeneralAntilles, I like my "plastics for medical use" thank you very much Oct 20 06:26:37 Switching to old newpapers. Oct 20 06:26:45 s/new/news/ Oct 20 06:26:45 GeneralAntilles meant: Switching to old newspapers. Oct 20 06:26:54 GeneralAntilles, as long as you drive them into each other I think I can get people onboard with that Oct 20 06:27:11 do any of the linux vms support 3d acceleration? Oct 20 06:27:15 (well) Oct 20 06:27:22 oss preferred Oct 20 06:27:27 I'm thinking: not really Oct 20 06:28:37 I wish I could take a train around the state here. Oct 20 06:28:59 GeneralAntilles, for long distance or commuting? Oct 20 06:29:05 Long distance Oct 20 06:29:11 huh. need a good vm for my 8core barcelona box Oct 20 06:29:11 it's expensive Oct 20 06:29:19 it'd be more expensive in a more rural area Oct 20 06:29:33 There's no way it's more expensive than me driving my car. Oct 20 06:29:58 it'd be close I think Oct 20 06:30:11 30mpg freeway? Oct 20 06:30:23 Closer to 34 Oct 20 06:31:15 your gas would have to cost $12 a gallon Oct 20 06:31:20 I pay about $50-$70 round trip depending on the price of gas at the time. Oct 20 06:31:31 no thoughts? Oct 20 06:31:42 Luria, vmware is nice and polished Oct 20 06:31:54 and free as in beer Oct 20 06:31:59 yeah i know Oct 20 06:32:12 wouldnt mind bare metal Oct 20 06:32:36 oh shit, lefty is now lecturing on quantum physics Oct 20 06:32:52 might want to research xen. I don't know if it can play nice with 3D Oct 20 06:33:00 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=234976 bizarre Oct 20 06:33:09 i need to look into vmgl Oct 20 06:33:15 speaking of, was any one at defcon Oct 20 06:33:27 * qwerty12 finds it desperate Oct 20 06:34:04 i never thought id see a quantum crypto implementation Oct 20 06:34:45 thats... sad Oct 20 06:35:16 poor guy :/ Oct 20 06:35:34 johnx, an Amtrak ticket from Tampa to Jacksonville is $30 one-way. Oct 20 06:35:40 fwiw Oct 20 06:35:41 http://www.physorg.com/news137253732.html Oct 20 06:36:03 'twas facking orsome. Oct 20 06:37:11 GeneralAntilles, cheaper than trains here Oct 20 06:38:27 trains would raise their prices if they didn't have to compete with cars Oct 20 06:41:29 uh, johnx killed the conversation Oct 20 06:41:38 or entangled monologues Oct 20 06:41:51 guess I left and took it with me Oct 20 06:42:00 working on building illume in angstrom Oct 20 06:43:22 does angstrom still work on sl-5?00s? Oct 20 06:43:35 someone's doing work on it actually Oct 20 06:43:44 touch screen is still iffy last time I checked Oct 20 06:43:55 sounds very opensource Oct 20 06:43:55 no sound or usb or apm, but it basically functions Oct 20 06:44:05 ~lart sharp Oct 20 06:44:05 * infobot installs a bad bootloader on sharp and turns sharp into a brick Oct 20 06:44:08 yup, thats def gpl'ed Oct 20 06:44:38 the strongarm doesn't get much love these days Oct 20 06:45:00 strongarm gone limp, eh Oct 20 06:45:05 :P Oct 20 06:45:23 god that pxa speed/bug was a mess Oct 20 06:45:25 it's hard to justify the time input when newer, faster, better supported boards/devices are so cheap Oct 20 06:45:43 technologic Oct 20 06:45:46 technologic Oct 20 06:45:48 I missed that, on purpose :) Oct 20 06:45:59 the pxa speed bug that is. I was on strongarm, then pxa270 Oct 20 06:46:06 what the pxa debacle Oct 20 06:46:11 good choice Oct 20 06:46:25 i didnt know when i got my sl5600 Oct 20 06:46:37 but it worked well enough for a while Oct 20 06:47:06 maemo in a -3200 format would be nice Oct 20 06:47:16 or pandora Oct 20 06:47:25 well, that's the idea Oct 20 06:47:31 but there's lots of road blocks Oct 20 06:47:54 twisty spines are hard to do cheaply id wager Oct 20 06:48:17 yeah, and patented Oct 20 06:48:25 o rly Oct 20 06:48:32 or so they say Oct 20 06:48:53 thats nuts Oct 20 06:49:10 probably not enforceable...unless you wanted to enforce it against a startup with no liquid capital Oct 20 06:49:27 ...just to set a precedent Oct 20 06:49:46 damn submarines Oct 20 06:49:59 sink your battleship again? Oct 20 06:50:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_patent Oct 20 06:50:31 I know :) Oct 20 06:50:35 ah, ok Oct 20 06:50:45 sink my uber-pandora Oct 20 06:51:00 probably also difficult to make strong Oct 20 06:51:03 TI's doing some badass stuff Oct 20 06:51:08 i better sell my nokias now Oct 20 06:51:31 GeneralAntilles, well ARM is feeding them :) Oct 20 06:51:46 Sure, but the whole OMAP35x thing. Oct 20 06:51:55 The Pandora wouldn't really exist without TI. Oct 20 06:52:05 ah, that. Yes I completely agree Oct 20 06:52:22 It's nice to see a company that's been around a long time seeing a new angle Oct 20 06:52:44 is anyone really competing with them in the soc world? Oct 20 06:52:49 ti seems to 0wn Oct 20 06:53:01 marvell? samsung? Oct 20 06:53:09 Samsung's got stuff, Freescale has stuff Oct 20 06:53:29 Qualcomm I guess Oct 20 06:53:54 but for the higher powered smartphones Oct 20 06:54:04 w00! my build continues! only a couple thousand tasks left to go! Oct 20 06:54:08 TI just gets way more play in the Linux circles. Oct 20 06:54:22 Well, Samsung is powering the iPhone. Oct 20 06:54:26 Qualcomm's got the Touch HD Oct 20 06:54:34 Nokia's smartphones are TI Oct 20 06:54:39 and I say good for them for figuring out a way to get good PR :) Oct 20 06:54:42 Except the N96, which is something weird. Oct 20 06:55:13 really? i thought the iphone was omap Oct 20 06:55:24 No way Oct 20 06:55:39 TI doesn't ship anything ARM11 that fast. Oct 20 06:56:35 how fast of a ARM11? Oct 20 06:57:03 ~600MHz max clock? Oct 20 06:57:10 Somewhere in the 500 and change range at the moment Oct 20 06:57:16 Started in the 400 range Oct 20 06:57:23 they keep adding more as the powersaving improves. Oct 20 06:57:26 really? they bumped it already? Oct 20 06:57:36 thought they did Oct 20 06:57:50 So I heard Oct 20 06:57:55 I don't really pay very much attention, though. Oct 20 06:58:22 it is probally from their I-don't-talk-to-anyone-who-can't-promise-52349808320914819480948094809234809238 chips/year group Oct 20 06:58:27 Engadget says Samsung S3C6400 Oct 20 06:59:47 Hrm, maybe I'm lying Oct 20 06:59:52 may it's still 412 Oct 20 07:00:27 Anyway, don't really know, don't really care. Oct 20 07:01:52 * RST38h is somewhat back (gprs) Oct 20 07:02:21 so, what are we comparing now? clock rates? Oct 20 07:02:50 Just generally discussing mobile SoCs Oct 20 07:03:34 they are all the same, why bother? Oct 20 07:03:51 'night Oct 20 07:04:08 even arm9 vs arm11 matters less than your cache size and memory bus speed Oct 20 07:04:31 We weren't comparing. :P Oct 20 07:04:51 ah =) Oct 20 07:05:36 Anyway, bedtime. Oct 20 07:05:39 'night all. Oct 20 07:05:55 gnight Oct 20 07:07:04 'night GeneralAntilles Oct 20 07:07:30 RST38h, arm11 to cortexA8 is a difference though :) Oct 20 07:08:25 johnx: I hope so but we will see Oct 20 07:08:54 I've watched a couple demos that make me pretty hopeful Oct 20 07:09:20 RST38h, you heard the pandora sold out, right? Oct 20 07:09:43 * RST38h now seriously wonders what Atom will end up bwing, after looking at what they advertise for moorestown Oct 20 07:10:02 johnx: yeah, all 3k units? Oct 20 07:10:26 4k Oct 20 07:10:47 they ended up increasing the size of the first batch, since they had all the money up front anyways Oct 20 07:11:22 incredible for a niche platfrom...now they only need to deliver on time Oct 20 07:12:43 Well, even if they're a little late I think people will cut them slack in general Oct 20 07:13:15 for a while, yes Oct 20 07:13:33 not for a long while though Oct 20 07:14:12 yeah, there will be less positive attitudes now that they have people's money Oct 20 07:14:20 anyways, I have my fingers crossed Oct 20 07:16:18 btw, people leaving in china report that factories are closing in scores Oct 20 07:16:28 s/leaving/living Oct 20 07:16:45 eep Oct 20 07:17:04 looks like the shit is finally hitting the chinese fan as well Oct 20 07:17:11 I think we might be living in interesting times... Oct 20 07:17:36 will probably become worse towards/after christmas Oct 20 07:18:00 well, beginning of a century , whaddayawant? =) Oct 20 07:18:23 least I don't have a house to worry about :) Oct 20 07:19:14 neither do I but should probably buy one now Oct 20 07:19:47 gonna buy it with cash? Oct 20 07:20:01 a few months like that and I will not need a loan :) Oct 20 07:20:53 + there will be plenty of people willing to renovate it for food Oct 20 07:21:24 lots of people to rent rooms to as well :) Oct 20 07:22:08 that is already happening. read that story in exile? Oct 20 07:24:43 morning all Oct 20 07:49:35 hi all Oct 20 08:03:34 hi Oct 20 08:04:38 hmm, is there any way to detect SDK version when building packages? Oct 20 08:05:05 i was wondering what are the closed source components in maemo? Oct 20 08:06:16 hena: Most of the applications. Oct 20 08:06:43 oh :( Oct 20 08:07:04 there's no hacks in linux, are there? Oct 20 08:07:16 hena: how come you ask? Oct 20 08:07:52 hena: http://www.slideshare.net/qgil/how-maemo-approaches-open-source-presentation see slide 4 for what nokia normally doesn't open source Oct 20 08:07:53 cause i'm wondering if i should buy nokia N810, but i need to use my own software in it and i don't wanna fight with closed stuff Oct 20 08:08:05 hena: use Deblet or the likes then Oct 20 08:08:27 but honestly, the tablet is very open for development and APIs documented and such for most things Oct 20 08:08:36 but some things are just closed as mentioned on the slide Oct 20 08:16:34 most of the application as closed source is not actually true. Oct 20 08:16:51 80-20 wasn't it? Oct 20 08:16:53 Some kernel driver i think (dont know wich) are not open source Oct 20 08:17:02 oh :( Oct 20 08:17:14 melmoth: yeah, but there is a open source driver now Oct 20 08:17:14 gives the impression on that slide that linux is free Oct 20 08:17:25 most application are open source, with available svn as well as source package Oct 20 08:17:40 tho, power management is being handled by closed source? Oct 20 08:17:49 yeah, but it's moving towards OHM Oct 20 08:18:06 which is open source, but may have properitary modules Oct 20 08:18:09 (which makes sense) Oct 20 08:18:14 ok Oct 20 08:18:19 and dsme is being published too Oct 20 08:18:58 melmoth, some apps are open source. a lot aren't Oct 20 08:19:37 johnx: names ? Oct 20 08:20:27 image viewer, media player, browser ui, notes Oct 20 08:20:31 others I'm sure Oct 20 08:20:37 there's a big spreadsheet available Oct 20 08:21:04 ok, deblet looks nice, tho i can't seem to find what's done and what's not Oct 20 08:21:35 considering 810, that is Oct 20 08:22:30 power management is not done ;) Oct 20 08:22:40 hehe Oct 20 08:23:13 melmoth: well, there's some wifi power management Oct 20 08:23:21 sorry, found the known issues :/ Oct 20 08:23:23 such as power saving when connection active and stuff like that Oct 20 08:23:25 well from what I understand , power management is there, but there are a lot of things in debian keeping the CPU awake Oct 20 08:23:36 and we use DSME so there's a degree of power managemetn Oct 20 08:23:43 but ofcourse it's not brilliant (yet) Oct 20 08:23:56 i'm hoping to shoehorn my work into spending time on that though Oct 20 08:25:13 sorry, a dumb question, but what's a chr button? ;) Oct 20 08:25:32 n810 thing Oct 20 08:25:46 it's simply i haven't added the proper keymap just yet Oct 20 08:26:09 that's what i thought Oct 20 08:26:27 .. we gladly take patches Oct 20 08:26:27 :P Oct 20 08:26:32 hehe Oct 20 08:26:39 well, need to get the device first ;) Oct 20 08:28:15 johnx: i wonder if we should attempt to use ohm or that it's probably going to get a boatload of updates once fremantle updates Oct 20 08:28:34 OLPC seems to use it though Oct 20 08:28:48 does it have modules to deal with n8x0 hardware? Oct 20 08:28:53 does it just drop in? Oct 20 08:29:12 that's a good question really Oct 20 08:29:35 if yes && yes ; then yes ; fi Oct 20 08:30:19 Yes is no and no is yes. Format drive C:? [Y/n] Oct 20 08:30:41 well it obviously don't have specific, but they seem reasonably easy to do since we know how dsme works and such Oct 20 08:30:50 but then again, OHM -should- be a dsme replacmenet Oct 20 08:31:27 hmm, bothersome, the home applets found on the chinook repos have a higher version number then the ones on diablo equivalent, yet at least one apparently dont want to work with diablo (homeip) Oct 20 08:31:57 johnx: http://ohm.freedesktop.org/wiki/FrontPage?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ohm-pres-fosdem.pdf Oct 20 08:32:03 t_s_o: Khertan has been having problems with autobuilder Oct 20 08:32:38 t_s_o: And Chinook repo does not require you to use autobuilder. I guess that is the reason for what you see. Oct 20 08:32:39 thanks for the headsup RST38h Oct 20 08:32:52 has anyone ever added the n810 as a USB network device to Leopard? Oct 20 08:33:03 johnx: i wonder if i should just wait some months till fremantle starts being more public and relax and do nothing, since fremantle obviously brings interesting changes Oct 20 08:33:07 :P Oct 20 08:33:32 Stskeeps, that's my plan with regards to maemo apps on other platforms Oct 20 08:33:47 in the mean time I'm about to try illume :) Oct 20 08:33:51 illume? Oct 20 08:34:06 hrmf, had a strange one last night. a reboot made the free space on the internal storage go from about 7MB to 20MB... Oct 20 08:34:16 Stskeeps, http://www.rasterman.com/ Oct 20 08:34:31 ah Oct 20 08:35:02 t_s_o, something about jffs2 only freeing space on mount in some situations Oct 20 08:35:13 johnx <-- feeling adventurous or something Oct 20 08:35:39 thanks johnx, so i take it that if i seem to be running out of space, give the device a quick reboot and see if it helps? Oct 20 08:36:02 t_s_o, well it couldn't hurt *shrugs* Oct 20 08:36:16 I'm just repeating something I heard a long time ago, though Oct 20 08:37:21 johnx: btw do you see any better network behaviour? i upgraded dsme-tools with a network-manager aware wifi power savings daemon Oct 20 08:37:43 when was that? Oct 20 08:38:16 recently i guess Oct 20 08:38:27 I probably haven't tried it yet then Oct 20 08:38:29 lemme see timeline Oct 20 08:38:54 I'll reboot into debian and transfer a whole bunch of stuff though just to test :) Oct 20 08:39:10 hehe Oct 20 08:39:20 http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser/trunk/packages/main/dsme-tools/usr/sbin/wifi_powersave.py Oct 20 08:39:25 pretty little dbus power saver Oct 20 08:42:55 sigh, i guess i'll order it, then... Oct 20 08:43:07 you can't go wrong with a tablet anyway Oct 20 08:43:11 hope the wife doesn't murder me :D Oct 20 08:43:22 you learn to love it more than your wife. it's like your lover on the side Oct 20 08:43:23 :P Oct 20 08:43:31 "The build quality of the N96 I admit it is now a lot more solid looking then my old N95 but seriously.. it makes no difference. The top part of the phone (the part with the screen) moves about 1mm up and down when its not slided out" Oct 20 08:43:36 Familiar, right? ;) Oct 20 08:43:46 Stskeeps, can you recommend a good dentist Oct 20 08:43:50 ;) Oct 20 08:44:05 lcuk: i have a polish woman for dentist. it's interesting. Oct 20 08:44:13 could be worse Oct 20 08:44:27 did u see the next thing i did Oct 20 08:44:43 http://liqbase.net/#images Oct 20 08:45:04 neat Oct 20 08:45:19 pdf? ;> Oct 20 08:45:20 enywhere, anytime Oct 20 08:45:25 png Oct 20 08:45:34 mm Oct 20 08:45:45 i guess that's the issue, the "lover" part ;) Oct 20 08:46:08 crap Oct 20 08:46:09 lcuk: You really need flashier UI Oct 20 08:46:18 lcuk: More icon, dude, more icons! =) Oct 20 08:46:40 Catch tigert here and try interesting him in making some icons Oct 20 08:52:25 oh, one more thing, i hope the gps works fine, and in deblet also? Oct 20 08:53:09 hena: no clue, don't have a n810, and gps isn't exactly perfect under maemo either Oct 20 08:53:26 it should be possible since it connects "internally" over bluetooth Oct 20 08:53:29 loopback Oct 20 08:53:33 and acts as any other gps Oct 20 08:55:20 oh :/ Oct 20 08:55:31 sounds like a hack Oct 20 08:55:43 that's the main feature i need :/ Oct 20 08:56:06 hena: well it's not a vendor supported OS so obviously you need to look into the drivers :) Oct 20 08:56:38 any knowledge on what chip it has? Oct 20 08:57:09 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4663&navigationId=12607&templateId=6123 Oct 20 08:57:48 * slonopotamus rocks Oct 20 08:57:54 how's the gentoo doing? Oct 20 08:58:14 now i know kung-fu^W how to cross-compile gcc Oct 20 08:58:47 hehe Oct 20 08:59:00 why not use codesourcery's toolchain? Oct 20 08:59:08 oh, nm Oct 20 09:00:20 Stskeeps, hi man. i've killed 2 days trying to cross-build gcc. until today, when i've discovered http://www.mail-archive.com/gentoo-embedded@lists.gentoo.org/msg01881.html the thing is that you must not add arch-dependent gcc opts to cross-build environment Oct 20 09:00:48 Stskeeps, i want to use gentoo-provided tools (crossdev, portage & etc) Oct 20 09:01:06 yeeeah! it's building! Oct 20 09:01:08 hehe Oct 20 09:01:29 i've killed up to several days compiling ubuntu mobile packages Oct 20 09:01:50 gcc builds something that must run on CBUILD machine (stage1 compiler possibly) Oct 20 09:02:19 and i had -march=armv6j in make.conf. but my main gcc doesn't know what's armv6j Oct 20 09:05:18 crazy thing Oct 20 09:06:06 Stskeeps, what's the problem with ubuntu mobile packages? Oct 20 09:06:52 slonopotamus: various differences in behaviour from debian -> ubuntu and odd APIs supported by pygtk debian doesn't support, and that it takes -ages- to compile gtk on a emulator. Oct 20 09:06:55 :P Oct 20 09:07:07 huh Oct 20 09:07:17 and they are telling me that compiling on device is slow Oct 20 09:07:33 not so slow compared to qemu Oct 20 09:08:13 well it does have 2-3x bogomips Oct 20 09:08:32 i'm planning on making the beagleboards we have here build machines possibily Oct 20 09:09:09 bogomips is a strange thing Oct 20 09:09:24 better benchmark is a build time of some known package Oct 20 09:10:23 A beagle is only making 3MIPS? Oct 20 09:10:40 Ah, 3x MIPS Oct 20 09:11:05 as far as i understand you cannot directly compare arm to x86 because of lots differences in architecture. Oct 20 09:11:14 only by tests Oct 20 09:11:20 RST38h: qemu armel compared to a nokia Oct 20 09:13:00 if you want benchmarks, try some of these (you'll want to recompile against an up-to-date version of the Nokia binaries though): http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/benchmarks/ Oct 20 09:13:31 i'll want to recompile against _my_ version of the _gentoo_ binaries :) Oct 20 09:13:52 Sts: yea, I got it Oct 20 09:14:28 what CHOST does IT OS have? Oct 20 09:14:30 * RST38h still does not quite understand what are the exact problems with cross-compilation environment. Why do you need native environment to compile? Oct 20 09:14:56 I have heard that there are some intermediate binaries that have to be run natively, but how exactly this situation occurs? Oct 20 09:14:59 * lardman seconds RST38h's thought Oct 20 09:15:13 hmm... it's easier to say 'xmerge system' then manual downloading/configuring/making of packages Oct 20 09:15:21 RST38h: the makefile can be patches to remove such things, but it's a pita Oct 20 09:16:15 lardman: Can the patched makefile be later reused universally? (i.e. is it a patch or a fix?0 Oct 20 09:16:42 RST38h: depends how you patch really Oct 20 09:16:49 but possibly Oct 20 09:17:10 I would say, if it is *fixing*, then just fix the damn makefiles Oct 20 09:17:20 the problem exists when some things make binaries in makefiles that it then uses to pre-preocess other stuff Oct 20 09:17:29 the one sticking point (but this also holds for emulated environments) is where the binary attempts to gain information about the underlying hardware - speed optimisations, etc. Oct 20 09:17:31 which can't happen obviously Oct 20 09:17:46 Yes, but if it is a command line binary, it will run just as well on a PC Oct 20 09:17:47 Stskeeps: those can often be patched to use the native gcc Oct 20 09:18:04 yeah, but sometimes there's a bit of a conflict, let's say, building python Oct 20 09:18:08 Of course you will need two CCs - HOSTCC and CC Oct 20 09:18:10 RST38h: the binary is made as part of the build process Oct 20 09:18:22 lardman: Make it with HOSTCC Oct 20 09:18:36 wheee-haaa! i've got armv6j gcc-4.1.2! Oct 20 09:18:38 And when building natively set HOSTCC = CC Oct 20 09:18:45 in R, the actual R executable is used to create the R script binaries, which means you need to do a complete native build, pita Oct 20 09:18:54 yeah Oct 20 09:19:04 RST38h: yes, i.e. patch the Makefile Oct 20 09:19:11 built by gentoo of course :) Oct 20 09:19:14 lardman: not patch, fix =) Oct 20 09:19:33 yeah, depends on the maintainers though Oct 20 09:19:36 lardman: which is what scratchbox tries to fix with the whole cpu transparency thing Oct 20 09:19:42 slonopotamus: madness :) Oct 20 09:19:43 i.e. once you fix it, it will stay fixed Oct 20 09:19:47 but fails miserably when using qemu Oct 20 09:20:05 lardman, complete :) Oct 20 09:20:07 sbrsh is much better in that case Oct 20 09:20:10 ~curse "cpu transparency" thing for being bogus Oct 20 09:20:11 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, "cpu transparency" thing for being bogus ! Oct 20 09:20:26 slonopotamus: it will just take far too long Oct 20 09:20:56 lardman, qemu isn't much faster than device processor Oct 20 09:21:03 slonopotamus: you and lcuk, two proud, two crazy gentlemen Oct 20 09:21:25 RST38h, what's bad with lcuk? Oct 20 09:21:33 slonopotamus: but much of the time it runs native x86 code Oct 20 09:21:52 slonopotamus: He is compiling natively on a tablet Oct 20 09:21:55 and editing two Oct 20 09:22:00 s/two/too Oct 20 09:22:08 RST38h, me too. Oct 20 09:22:14 RST38h, what's wrong with that? Oct 20 09:22:31 slono: Slow and causes chronic capral tunnel syndrome Oct 20 09:22:44 RST38h, are you in a hurry? :) Oct 20 09:22:49 nothign wrong otherwise :) Oct 20 09:23:02 RST38h: ah, i was wondering why that started happening when i started compiling packages.. Oct 20 09:23:03 slono: I always am Oct 20 09:23:22 Sts: Slow or capral tunnel? Oct 20 09:23:28 last Oct 20 09:24:21 RST38h, you just don't understand the magic of build log running through screen Oct 20 09:24:50 :) Oct 20 09:25:00 slono: I do - I have started with MSX :) Oct 20 09:25:28 Sts: BT keyboard fixes that. But it is also damn slow on Maemo =) Oct 20 09:25:35 slonopotamus: yes, do it on the PC where there's more space, more memory and a larger screen to see the build log ;) Oct 20 09:25:49 slono: The problem is, my build logs take a while even on PC Oct 20 09:26:39 don't touch my precious source-based gentoo :) it's USE flags rock. Oct 20 09:26:50 *its Oct 20 09:26:51 ;) Oct 20 09:26:57 ok, its Oct 20 09:27:03 Oct 20 09:27:21 slonopotamus, can you get your cpu to run in effective performance mode whilst building - if so it should be about 4x faster Oct 20 09:27:23 slonopotamus: i'm really interested to see what effect it has on power consumption really Oct 20 09:27:24 * aquatix outsources building of binaries to debian's buildd Oct 20 09:27:55 lcuk: instead of on-demand, use performance? Oct 20 09:27:56 Stskeeps, n800 runs out of full battery in 3 hours of 100% cpu load Oct 20 09:28:03 slonopotamus: i meant the resulting base system Oct 20 09:28:10 i am running mp3 using playbin and filesrc as : gst-launch-0.10 playbin uri=file:///media/mmc1/Audio/test.mp3 and gst-launch-0.10 filesrc location=/media/mmc1/Audio/test.mp3 ! dspmp3sink the same song is able to play with first command (playbin) but not with filesrc giving error : ERROR: from element /pipeline0/dspmp3sink0: Could not determine type of stream. can anyone help me to run same song with filesrc and dspmp3sink Oct 20 09:28:35 lcuk, uh? cpu governor on device? Oct 20 09:28:38 aquatix, in my meagre scrollback i saw building gentoo or something, i thought that bootstrapped itself then built from within its own roomy atrium Oct 20 09:28:45 yes slonopotamus Oct 20 09:29:01 lcuk, will try Oct 20 09:29:06 minti: you may need to manually construct the pipe Oct 20 09:29:14 s/pipe/pipeline Oct 20 09:29:16 hmmm, roomy atria... Oct 20 09:29:21 lardman, have oyu become a qualified dentist yet? Oct 20 09:29:25 * aquatix wants to go home Oct 20 09:29:47 minti: Do the sinks need to be able to parse the stream and say if they can decode it? If so, the dspsink one may not support that Oct 20 09:29:53 lcuk: still got a sore tooth? Oct 20 09:30:02 lardman: gst-launch-0.10 filesrc location=/media/mmc1/Audio/test.mp3 ! dspmp3sink Oct 20 09:30:26 yes, on friday he gave one last chance but that did diddly squat and i drove to work in agony this mornin Oct 20 09:30:36 lcuk: afraid my doctorate is for engineering, I could always use a pair of pliers ;) Oct 20 09:30:50 * lcuk hides Oct 20 09:30:58 minti: ah sorry, missed that Oct 20 09:31:03 lardman: gst-launch-0.10 playbin uri=/media/mmc1/Audio/test.mp3 is able to run Oct 20 09:31:26 minti: in which case ignore me, best see if there are any gstreamer experts about Oct 20 09:32:38 gst-launch-0.10 playbin uri=file:///media/mmc1/Audio/test.mp3 is able to run but gst-launch-0.10 filesrc location=/media/mmc1/Audio/test.mp3 ! dspmp3sink is not able Oct 20 09:33:22 weird, I always thought the latter ran Oct 20 09:33:32 exit with ERROR: from element /pipeline0/dspmp3sink0: Could not determine type of stream Oct 20 09:34:13 I understand, I just don't know why, sorry Oct 20 09:34:45 lardman, how was your weekend anyway Oct 20 09:34:52 lardman: :) Oct 20 09:35:58 lcuk: not bad, busy, no coding, but I did crack on a bit with writing up some detailed DSP instructions from the Linux Summit presentation Oct 20 09:36:44 nice, now take what you have written and condense it to only 8 pages :P Oct 20 09:37:01 lol Oct 20 09:37:13 should have done that for the presentation itself :) Oct 20 09:37:24 heh its always the way Oct 20 09:37:39 i tried to have a go at filming video spot #4 Oct 20 09:38:15 but i kept bringing up the wrong sketch - i'd aim for something really cool and profound and end up grabbing one of jakes trains or something Oct 20 09:38:22 MAKE FONT SMALLER. Oct 20 09:38:25 :) Oct 20 09:38:26 ;) Oct 20 09:38:44 RST38h, i suggested that first time lardman mentioned it Oct 20 09:38:53 btw. is it possible to add ALT key to osso-xterm? Oct 20 09:39:25 how much space is available by default in ~ ? Oct 20 09:39:34 on a "normal" system - 8x0 Oct 20 09:39:47 and less spacing between lines Oct 20 09:40:03 lcuk: ~57MB when I first got it, I think Oct 20 09:40:05 and get rid of those silly headers and footers Oct 20 09:40:08 most likely less now Oct 20 09:40:09 print RIGHT to the margins Oct 20 09:40:14 gulp! Oct 20 09:40:29 whitespace smitespace Oct 20 09:40:46 replace(doc," ","") Oct 20 09:40:49 lcuk: Have you considered replacing all liqbase "buttons" with simple b/w icons? Oct 20 09:40:59 for the paper the dimensions and font were specified, for the presentation would have needed to give binoculars to the audience ;) Oct 20 09:41:13 lcuk: imho, it will make things *way* more attractive Oct 20 09:41:19 RST38h, look in video 3, its been in my mind for a LONG time to replace everything with colored hand drawn sketches - i keep procrastinating Oct 20 09:41:27 theres a reason though Oct 20 09:41:45 one of the sketches i highlight and click past says "add icons..." Oct 20 09:41:49 and i drew a few Oct 20 09:42:02 the very first ever batch of sketches i drew were icons Oct 20 09:42:14 lcuk: Ah, forget the colored part, I would use something like this: http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/5859/iconset1bluesmallfx8.jpg Oct 20 09:42:22 right at the bottom of the graffiti wall even now are things like close and edit and stuff Oct 20 09:43:29 lcuk: Yes, you have got the buttons with labels all right, but imho if you remove labels and those rectangular frames and just keep a few simple white icons, it will rock Oct 20 09:43:41 RST38h, dont rush me to icons :) :P the wait will be worth it and it really doesnt stop it from being usable Oct 20 09:44:32 i have other priorities though, but you will get your wish Oct 20 09:45:08 to use icons i need proper file selection.. Oct 20 09:45:31 lardman, RST38h did you see this by the wya: http://liqbase.net/#images Oct 20 09:46:07 cool Oct 20 09:46:16 +1 to the request for a camera pointing the other way too! Oct 20 09:46:21 (ihence me asking about amount of space) Oct 20 09:46:43 well i asked the same thing at the summit, ive coded the reason why now Oct 20 09:46:53 lardman, i can make my heads have fights in the image physics view :D Oct 20 09:47:05 im gonna give device to everyone who i need to remember Oct 20 09:47:20 a quick snap and they will be in the river with all sketches (including name and notes) Oct 20 09:47:31 lcuk: lol @ fights Oct 20 09:47:45 * lcuk will have "my life" documented :) Oct 20 09:48:04 lcuk: can you add a photo to a sketch? photo of head then add arms, legs, swords, etc. for the fights :) Oct 20 09:48:12 lcuk: ok, ok =) Oct 20 09:48:13 ive also never been a fractal before :) notice the infinite recursion Oct 20 09:48:30 heh lardman, im hoping to do all that kind of stuff Oct 20 09:48:59 lcuk: for your physics, are the sketches bounded, or is the physics performed on the actual lines of the sketch (does that make sense?) Oct 20 09:48:59 just drawing mustaches on pictures will be a good enough start :) Oct 20 09:49:02 can be faked with two mirrors =) Oct 20 09:49:18 RST38h, try the stamp tool in liqbase :) Oct 20 09:49:24 you dont need no stinking mirrors Oct 20 09:49:34 that would be manual. mirrors are automatic! Oct 20 09:49:36 lcuk: i.e. If I drew a line, would that tumble about, or would it be bounded in a box which would move about? Oct 20 09:50:05 its only within the frame lardman, but ive got overlapping/hittest code down to the stroke somewhere Oct 20 09:50:24 i dont normally needit, last time i used it was for the HWR test i was playing with Oct 20 09:50:24 cool Oct 20 09:50:31 I was thinking about a dart board too then ;) Oct 20 09:50:34 (to determine if 2 strokes had intersected Oct 20 09:50:49 add basic aerodynamics/drag Oct 20 09:50:55 remember, its not real physics :P i wonder who gave it that name Oct 20 09:51:04 Yahoo! is axing jobs as part of a major cost-cutting exercise - it is expected to get rid of at least 1,000 people, the same number that went in January. Oct 20 09:51:08 Yahooooooo! Oct 20 09:51:13 as long as it behaves vaguely sensibly that's enough Oct 20 09:51:25 lardman, have you seen this callingallinnovators competition :) Oct 20 09:51:32 yeah it does kindof Oct 20 09:51:41 i nearly wrote a game yesterday ;) Oct 20 09:51:44 [whisper] add google maps integration ;) Oct 20 09:52:24 not important, but gps should be another breadcrumb in the graffiti river Oct 20 09:52:30 anyway, back later Oct 20 10:52:01 so. Oct 20 10:52:59 mm? Oct 20 10:58:10 no perl. no python. but gcc, openssh, bash, baselayout and some minor utils. that's the best i got from crosscompiling. next step is boot & hack & boot again Oct 20 10:59:39 as people say, there are no problems with building perl later, natively Oct 20 10:59:46 what worries me is python Oct 20 11:00:50 I installed PC Connectivity/USB Networking on my N810 Diablo. I click on Setup USB Networking in the control panel and I get and IP address on the USB port. I then connect the N810 to my Mac Leopard. But I can't ping that IP address from the Mac. I wonder what I'm doing wrong? Oct 20 11:01:17 Hi ! Oct 20 11:01:55 is it my conf or modest is worst in the last ssu update ? i doesn t refresh my imap folder Oct 20 11:02:09 modest is slow :/ Oct 20 11:02:20 Khertan_n810: and if you choose another, then come back to the first? Oct 20 11:02:25 that seemed to work here Oct 20 11:02:55 same thing changing folder ... no refresh Oct 20 11:03:06 odd Oct 20 11:03:11 that worked here Oct 20 11:03:19 also after a killall modest Oct 20 11:03:39 maybe restart its deamon? Oct 20 11:03:55 which resolv freeze downloading in background in the previous version Oct 20 11:03:55 * aquatix shrugs Oct 20 11:03:55 connecting the N810 to the Mac vis USB networking and setting up a SSH session in Eclipse is hopeless. Oct 20 11:04:16 is daemon is nammed modest too Oct 20 11:04:26 so this is not a daemon problem Oct 20 11:05:00 and the refresh button do nothing Oct 20 11:05:32 Khertan_n810: i hate modest. please write a better replacement ;) Oct 20 11:05:44 TokyoDan : eclipse on osx is hopeless Oct 20 11:06:05 stskeep : i like it Oct 20 11:06:14 when it work Oct 20 11:06:27 my client don t work on ssl Oct 20 11:06:45 and work only on pop Oct 20 11:06:47 no imap Oct 20 11:06:49 yeah, i would like it too if it actually -worked- Oct 20 11:07:00 it s a real pain to implement Oct 20 11:07:05 but it's acting like a schizophrenic HAL Oct 20 11:08:50 Stskeeps: with mcalendar i ven t the time to write an other python app at this time Oct 20 11:09:00 i must finish it before Oct 20 11:09:10 gletelli__: do you work for ARM? Oct 20 11:09:43 yes Oct 20 11:10:09 do you know anything about Jazelle? Oct 20 11:10:28 a little :) Oct 20 11:10:50 what are the chances of ARM releasing enough information that we might be able to use it? Oct 20 11:11:18 or is it seen as some sort of extra revenue generator, licensing the runtime, etc.? Oct 20 11:11:26 I'm afraid I think the API is not public because of some legal issues Oct 20 11:11:41 Stskeeps: s/replacement/patch it till it's working right Oct 20 11:11:49 gletelli__: with Sun? Oct 20 11:11:55 no comment Oct 20 11:11:59 :) Oct 20 11:12:15 so not sure how I can help you here Oct 20 11:12:20 :( Oct 20 11:12:27 information on the Jazelle coprocessors Oct 20 11:12:40 :( Oct 20 11:12:45 and the secret incantation (or rather numbers) which need to be fed to it to enable it Oct 20 11:13:07 Are you working on Java? Oct 20 11:13:20 no, just working on non-working hardware components ;) Oct 20 11:13:59 my best bet would be to work on JIT Oct 20 11:14:08 like Mozilla on Tamarin Oct 20 11:14:15 as in it's faster so no point in Jazelle? Oct 20 11:14:27 someone know module python-dateutil ? Oct 20 11:14:39 no - as in public and community working on it Oct 20 11:15:01 gletelli__: well yeah, but then the jazelle stuff is just sat there waiting to be used of course ;) Oct 20 11:15:18 I know.... Oct 20 11:16:07 I'll see if there is more news about Jazelle from colleages Oct 20 11:16:14 thanks :) Oct 20 11:17:12 do u know a free file host which work well with n810 like box.net ? Oct 20 11:17:19 lardman: loooked into ThumbEE? Oct 20 11:17:26 some claim it's easier to find info on Oct 20 11:17:40 Stskeeps: which processor is that on? Oct 20 11:17:55 cortex a8 i found stuff about atleast Oct 20 11:18:22 ok, still wondering about the arm1136 until I get some cortex hardware :) Oct 20 11:18:23 and thumbee has a linux patch too Oct 20 11:20:20 http://vbering.vitusbering.dk/graphics/VitusBering-Library/it-ingenior/Personale/HSO/Alexandra/RTJ/Aktiviteter/JazelleFraSoren_15_11_04.zip has a .pps telling soem about register structure atleast.. Oct 20 11:22:26 bye Oct 20 11:30:29 lardman: http://www.arm.com/miscPDFs/14128.pdf pages a2-52 and forward.. isn't that something? how to get into jazelle mode, execution and so on Oct 20 11:32:10 Stskeeps, its not just executing a string of java from asm thats needed, theres the framework around to get it to the right place when java requires executing (so i believe) Oct 20 11:32:36 mm Oct 20 11:33:32 ok, let me put it another way, given a .jar file (or whatever it comes in) how would you prepare and execute it.. Oct 20 11:35:00 mm, i'd say it should be from a class file instead - translate those bytecodes to jazelle bytecode, set up the environment of jazelle to work, BXJ to the bytecode and it exits into normal mode at some point Oct 20 11:35:45 i guess jazelle is a bit of a way to switch the processor into a different instruction set Oct 20 11:35:55 so the bytecodes run "native" Oct 20 11:36:22 the instructionset is javabytecode (so i believe) and so compiled java should work as long as you setup the stack and heap frames correctly Oct 20 11:36:57 then it's a matter of setting up registers correctly (see .pps i pointed to earlier), and then branching into the code i guess Oct 20 11:37:03 Is there an alternative to Eclipse/Pydev/Pluthon for developing Maemo/N810 apps on the Mac? Oct 20 11:37:11 having the hardware instructions simply removes one step from the whole java bytecode runtime compiler jobbie whatsit and exectures the java bytecode faster Oct 20 11:37:30 yeah Oct 20 11:37:37 Stskeeps, much more unfortunately, speak to sun about a hardware accelerated java vm Oct 20 11:38:44 what i see points to "simply" setting the J-bit in CPSR, processor state set and use java byte code + some extra to support jazelle Oct 20 11:39:00 atleast when people lecture about it Oct 20 11:39:11 what about the libraries java uses? Oct 20 11:39:32 i dont think ive ever seen a "naked" java file with no deps Oct 20 11:39:50 they're bytecode too, and if there's a need for native, there's instructions to kick out of jazelle mode Oct 20 11:40:20 no, but how do you tell the CPU where the libraries are and how to access them? Oct 20 11:40:33 memory map them? :P Oct 20 11:40:49 the cpu doesn't do all the stuff, it's not a jvm Oct 20 11:40:50 (something that usually the CPU state should hold on the stack or heap or somesuch object pointer Oct 20 11:41:01 no, thats what i was saying Oct 20 11:41:11 the svm must be available.. Oct 20 11:41:16 jvm Oct 20 11:41:27 yeah, and use jazelle as a kind of JIT really Oct 20 11:42:12 http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/jazelle.jpg Oct 20 11:42:21 look at registers Oct 20 11:42:23 JVM bytecode instructions which aren't implemented in jazelle trap back into the JVM to deal with Oct 20 11:43:08 Stskeeps, why not simply user self modifying code :D Oct 20 11:43:31 anyway, i must vanish, bbl Oct 20 11:43:53 wait, i was talking to lcuk all the time? thought it was lardman Oct 20 11:43:53 :P Oct 20 11:44:06 * Stskeeps goes smoke Oct 20 11:44:18 but anyway, i don't see why it should be so difficult to get jazelle going. Oct 20 11:44:30 it's a pretty simple thing if you know of how jvm's work and machine architectures Oct 20 11:44:35 TokyoDan: there is a vmware image of scratchbox Oct 20 11:45:05 eh? Oct 20 11:45:58 the jvm has to be able to lay out its state in a way compatible with the hardware jazelle instructions, deal with traps back into jvm-required stuff, know which parts of the code can be run on jazelle, etc Oct 20 11:46:22 it's quite a lot of architectural mangling for a JIT Oct 20 11:47:01 it means some instructions should be passed through unmodified, and the other ones it generates have to understand the register/stack representation used by the jazelle instructions Oct 20 11:47:54 jazelle always struck me as a bit odd, because jvm is quite a "heavy" bytecode where the jvm is responsible for all sorts of exciting object/allocation/type stuff which the cpu won't be able to do for you Oct 20 11:48:01 sorry, was doing some work, reading backlog now Oct 20 11:48:22 so you go in and out of jazelle instructions all the time, and probably spend more time in the jvm trapping and doing its usual work than in jazelle mode anyway Oct 20 11:48:39 and in fact, if you just had a decent jit and didn't bother, it'd probably go just as fast Oct 20 11:48:52 Robot101: that's possible, but what if the switch is just a processor bit? Oct 20 11:49:02 and fast at it Oct 20 11:49:14 then it's not much worse than a branch Oct 20 11:49:19 Stskeeps: you can't write to cpsr Oct 20 11:49:24 ah. Oct 20 11:49:39 doesn't really matter, you still need to architect your jvm so that it uses the same representation for the stack as the jazelle instructions, which is probably going to be significant reworking Oct 20 11:49:57 there are a couple of points, bxj should branch to some java bytecode, but in fact it just acts like a bx Oct 20 11:50:04 lardman: BXJ sets J bit in CPSR Oct 20 11:50:09 no Oct 20 11:50:23 there is a check performed Oct 20 11:50:34 and if this check is failed, the bit is not set and it doesn't work Oct 20 11:50:54 so you need to enable the jazelle hardware, via a couple of undocumented coprocessors Oct 20 11:50:59 k Oct 20 11:51:17 then, you need to setup the bytecode handler table, not sure how Oct 20 11:51:29 also not sure which registers are used for which parts of the vm Oct 20 11:51:41 cacao-oj6 in debian/armel is already blazingly fast JIT, how much faster do you expect jazelle based jvm to be? Oct 20 11:51:51 I'll find the thread from the old days, it will be easier than my trying to remember off the top of my head Oct 20 11:52:08 suihkulokki: I'm not bothered actually, it's there, I'd like to see it working :) Oct 20 11:52:20 lardman: nevermind anyway, - the coprocessor thing is kinda a showstopper Oct 20 11:52:33 ah, the "because it's there" reason :) Oct 20 11:52:42 :) Oct 20 11:52:55 Stskeeps: the processor needs some secret incantation sent to it to start up Oct 20 11:52:58 co- Oct 20 11:53:06 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-July/thread.html are some of the posts Oct 20 11:53:32 I have Canola installed on my N800 and I have been using it to play videos mostly ... videos that I have converted into a format for this device ... now for some reason the Canola player seems to be having difficulty and often crashes -- leaving me to have to turn the device off and back on again. Would anyone have any idea how I can fix this? Oct 20 11:54:54 zackeroo: run canola from the command line with "-vvv" in order to get some info from log Oct 20 11:55:28 ok .. I will try that Oct 20 11:55:35 also August, December Oct 20 11:55:47 although it happens sometimes and then works other time just fine ... Oct 20 11:56:03 Stskeeps: my final post on the subject: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-December/031016.html Oct 20 12:09:20 Could somebody tell me how I can debug the loading of a program from extras menu? Oct 20 12:09:34 I have icon in the menu but clicking it does nothing Oct 20 12:15:22 1 Oct 20 12:16:22 zappp: you are not implementing dbus service functions Oct 20 12:16:37 [that is most likely explanation, anyway] Oct 20 12:22:07 sup. does anyone know how to make avahi-daemon start automatically on diablo? it seems rc.d is insufficient :/ Oct 20 12:25:53 can anyone recommend usb keyboard for n800? Oct 20 12:29:38 say something bad about Cherry Mini Keyboard :) Oct 20 12:30:27 it doesn't really taste like cherries? Oct 20 12:30:31 http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/image/acsessories/cherry-usb-kb/pic7.jpg Oct 20 12:30:35 http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/image/acsessories/cherry-usb-kb/pic7.jpg Oct 20 12:30:47 woops Oct 20 12:30:51 i did something nasty Oct 20 12:31:02 ctrl+l clears history Oct 20 12:31:09 heh Oct 20 12:33:25 slonopotamus: the cherry isn't wireless! ;) Oct 20 12:33:31 * aquatix has an iGo bt keyboard Oct 20 12:34:20 aquatix, i don't want wireless at the moment. because in order to use it i'll have to setup bluetooth in my gentoo port. Oct 20 12:34:29 ah :P Oct 20 12:34:37 well, that cherry kb looks nice Oct 20 12:35:26 doesn't have a thing to place tablet on it (don't know how it is called) Oct 20 12:35:42 myeah, no holder indeed Oct 20 12:35:54 yep, holder Oct 20 12:35:55 that's bad? Oct 20 12:36:01 don't know :) Oct 20 12:36:02 it's generally flaky anyway Oct 20 12:36:11 and the n800 has a stand of itslef Oct 20 12:36:13 *itself Oct 20 12:36:18 * aquatix bashes his keyboard Oct 20 12:36:24 i hope it will work without any configuration. Oct 20 12:36:35 let us know ;) Oct 20 12:36:39 huh Oct 20 12:37:04 slonopotamus: you should look into qwerty12's g_serial Oct 20 12:37:06 might help some things Oct 20 12:37:17 or utelnetd Oct 20 12:37:23 over usbnet Oct 20 12:37:30 that was the best tools when i did porting Oct 20 12:37:39 then i need network Oct 20 12:37:52 usb cable? :P Oct 20 12:38:02 ah Oct 20 12:38:03 true. Oct 20 12:38:04 network. Oct 20 12:38:07 do it in chroot? Oct 20 12:38:07 i couldn't configure usbnet even with working device :) Oct 20 12:38:22 drivers magic in chroot? Oct 20 12:38:22 and do the bootstrapping in there Oct 20 12:38:25 well Oct 20 12:38:36 getting to a stage where you can get things going Oct 20 12:39:06 i think it will be easier to configure usb + screen than network. Oct 20 12:39:38 mm, g_serial + shell should be possible maybe Oct 20 12:39:49 doesn't require a lot of fancy Oct 20 12:40:30 :( this thing isn't sold here Oct 20 12:40:39 * slonopotamus googling for g_serial Oct 20 12:41:01 "shell over usb". omg. Oct 20 12:41:39 it will give readonly access? Oct 20 12:41:57 oh, looks like read-write Oct 20 13:03:11 johnx: might start popping in (C) my university on some things, - seems like i've navigated myself into a position where improvements i do reasoned by my uni pervasive platform to deblet will be paid over my wage .. :) Oct 20 13:03:34 (open source licensed still obviously) Oct 20 13:05:20 morning Oct 20 13:05:27 johnx: and power saving stuff and such may be that.. Oct 20 13:09:27 moorning, hrw, AStorm Oct 20 13:16:25 hi, does anyone have a gtk or gtkmm documentation in a more friendly form than the online documentation ? for example a help-like form, with tree view, search and tabs and inner links ? Oct 20 13:21:58 <_berto_> notcoolbuthot: install devhelp and libgtk2.0-doc Oct 20 13:29:55 _berto_: thanks! this is exactly what I needed :p Oct 20 13:30:38 <_berto_> :) Oct 20 13:40:22 Stskeeps, here? Oct 20 13:41:35 mm? Oct 20 13:42:03 Stskeeps, did you use standard Xorg or repackaged Xomap? Oct 20 13:42:28 repackaged xomap. xf86-video-omapfb is in progress at http://gitweb.pingu.fi/?p=xf86-video-omapfb.git;a=tree Oct 20 13:42:50 Stskeeps, do i understand correctly, Xomap = Xorg + hackish patches? Oct 20 13:43:11 xomap = xorg kdrive fbdev based with omap fb accel Oct 20 13:43:12 afaik Oct 20 13:43:23 xorg in newer versions doesn't have kdrive Oct 20 13:44:08 new smart words... Oct 20 13:44:43 googling Oct 20 13:45:23 hm Oct 20 13:45:36 kdrive is a tiny xserver Oct 20 13:45:46 yeah Oct 20 13:45:57 maemo is moving to xorg + driver too so Oct 20 13:46:31 fix: kdrive WAS a tiny xserver Oct 20 13:46:51 so you can't have both kdrive and xorg Oct 20 13:47:08 yeah Oct 20 13:47:09 well Oct 20 13:47:14 you can easily use the xorg infrastructure Oct 20 13:47:19 and then have kdrive as the X server Oct 20 13:47:41 ok. but real reason is video driver? Oct 20 13:47:49 yeah Oct 20 13:47:58 xv accel is always nice to have. Oct 20 13:48:47 i see. Oct 20 13:51:01 * lcuk agrees Oct 20 13:52:27 i thought the worst programming thing is openssl. nope. crosscompiling is worse. Oct 20 13:52:47 hehe Oct 20 13:53:04 slonopotamus: openssl is easy. but try serving SSL to cell phones. Oct 20 13:53:32 openssl has ugliest error messages in the world Oct 20 13:53:40 the? Oct 20 13:54:04 aquatix, correct me ;) Oct 20 13:54:40 slonopotamus: yeah, +the :) Oct 20 13:55:08 slonopotamus: the documentation is worse Oct 20 13:55:18 atleast it used t obe Oct 20 13:56:07 * slonopotamus can't google omapfb driver sources... :( Oct 20 13:56:15 google up? Oct 20 13:57:28 slonopotamus, theres about 6 variations ;) have fun Oct 20 13:57:47 omg Oct 20 13:58:07 at least that i could find when i was looking and tryingto check things out Oct 20 13:58:28 probably from all different times and places but people have taken to including their own omapfb header and stuff Oct 20 13:59:04 does anyone wanna swap afternoons with me? Oct 20 13:59:31 what does 'swap afternoons' mean? Oct 20 14:00:09 you can go into the dentists for me and ill try n recompile stuff for you Oct 20 14:00:17 on second thoughts, ill stick with the dentist Oct 20 14:00:56 :D Oct 20 14:02:10 anybody know why the entrycompletion isn't accessible when it's inside a dialog? the completion strings are displayed but the user can't select anyone with touchscreen Oct 20 14:02:11 have you given up ondevice compilation then Oct 20 14:02:38 i do test with entrycompletion outside of a dialog and it works fine. Oct 20 14:03:22 qemu can't compile with gcc-4*. great. Oct 20 14:05:33 you are compiling qemu on a tablet? ;) Oct 20 14:06:21 hmm... you may think i'm crazy. but not THAT much Oct 20 14:07:39 however someone used dosbox on tablet (running win95). why not qemu? Oct 20 14:08:35 lcuk, you are right. several different sources. Oct 20 14:08:44 win95... on tablet? *shivers* Oct 20 14:09:02 jaska, yep ;) Oct 20 14:09:24 jaska, it even works Oct 20 14:10:22 slowly i imagine Oct 20 14:10:47 jaska, yep ;) Oct 20 14:11:39 hola Oct 20 14:12:06 lopz, lcuk... strange nicks Oct 20 14:12:34 slonopotamus, hehe Oct 20 14:12:53 slonopotamus, mi name is Jorge López :p Oct 20 14:13:02 López == lopz Oct 20 14:13:13 ы Oct 20 14:13:18 just remove some characters from your name, done ;) Oct 20 14:13:20 oh. unicode. Oct 20 14:13:26 slonopotamus: perfectly fine here Oct 20 14:13:35 not that i can decypher it Oct 20 14:13:56 xD Oct 20 14:14:01 better? Oct 20 14:14:08 it's nice and short :) Oct 20 14:14:11 Meanwhile: The "quality" of New Zealand chaps' ejaculate has halved since 1987, with testicular output crashing from 110m sperm per millilitre to 50m, The Australian reports. Oct 20 14:14:16 but slonopotamus is fine for me Oct 20 14:14:25 large :\ Oct 20 14:14:27 it's what tab-completion is for Oct 20 14:14:28 slnp isn't meaningful Oct 20 14:14:46 RST38h: ... Oct 20 14:14:54 huh Oct 20 14:15:02 RST38h: or they masturbate too much, or cellphones are evil ;) Oct 20 14:15:22 In NZ and AU, cellphones are your least problem Oct 20 14:15:34 * lcuk thinks of snuffalufficus (google image search is your friend) Oct 20 14:15:34 * aquatix wonders what kind of researchers perform such research Oct 20 14:15:39 Locals get 50% chance of skin cancer just from being in the sun Oct 20 14:15:39 RST38h: ghehe Oct 20 14:15:55 lcuk: sfw? Oct 20 14:16:05 aquatix: Bespectacled nerdy men in white coats! Oct 20 14:16:28 its from sesame street, it better had be! Oct 20 14:16:33 lcuk: ah Oct 20 14:16:55 some kind of platypus? Oct 20 14:16:59 lcuk: slonopotam is Heffalump in Russian translation Oct 20 14:17:00 sounds like it Oct 20 14:17:22 wooly mammoth Oct 20 14:17:25 type thing Oct 20 14:17:30 friend of big bird Oct 20 14:17:48 Disney presents it as an elephant, no wool Oct 20 14:18:04 But I guess they just did CFLAGS += -llibdumbo Oct 20 14:18:11 lcuk: ah Oct 20 14:18:15 http://www.pepperspollywogs.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/WindowsLiveWriter/SesameWorkshopPartyworks_E70F/watchplay%5B1%5D%5B3%5D.jpg Oct 20 14:18:35 right Oct 20 14:18:49 oh well, we have our own sesame street characters here anyway Oct 20 14:18:52 with a blue bird Oct 20 14:18:54 and such Oct 20 14:19:05 but i haven't watched it in, like 20 years ;) Oct 20 14:19:09 * slonopotamus and they say i'm crazy Oct 20 14:19:09 lcuk: The thing on the left in that image is Cthulhu. Oct 20 14:19:19 heh Oct 20 14:19:20 RST38h: *g* Oct 20 14:19:33 in a thin disguise! Oct 20 14:19:33 lcuk: SEE His Tentacles? Oct 20 14:19:42 slonnopotam is a creature from whinnie the pooh Oct 20 14:19:45 FAMILY CHANNEL Oct 20 14:19:54 yea, a baseball cap won't disguise Him this much Oct 20 14:19:58 lcuk: cut the shit :P Oct 20 14:20:04 slonopotamus: Heffalump Oct 20 14:20:04 i would hope his tentacles are covered up Oct 20 14:20:14 slono: That is what it is called in the original Oct 20 14:20:33 lcuk: Only with his prey. Oct 20 14:20:45 RST38h, ok) Oct 20 14:24:04 lcuk: Thanks for changing the key from Chr! Oct 20 14:25:06 oh, didn't know there was an elephant in Winnie the Pooh Oct 20 14:26:45 hmm.. i wonder if remapping the other shift key is feasible Oct 20 14:28:16 aquaaquatix: It is never called by its name in there, but quite apparent Oct 20 14:28:16 aquatix: Same goes for Tolkien's Ring Trilogy Oct 20 14:29:21 there's an elephant in LotR? Oct 20 14:29:23 :P Oct 20 14:29:30 :-D Oct 20 14:29:34 quite big ones even Oct 20 14:29:39 oliphants Oct 20 14:29:43 oh my. EspeonEefi has funky keyboard i guess Oct 20 14:29:58 yep Oct 20 14:33:33 hmm Oct 20 14:33:55 someone told me about cpu governor on tablet Oct 20 14:34:06 i don't see /proc/acpi Oct 20 14:34:20 or it's somewhere else? Oct 20 14:34:36 it is elsewhere Oct 20 14:34:58 where? Oct 20 14:34:59 /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq Oct 20 14:36:18 ahha Oct 20 14:36:27 full governor list Oct 20 14:38:32 it madly switches between 400 and 165 mhz Oct 20 14:39:41 while(1) { for(J=0;J<1000000;++J);sleep(1); } ??? Oct 20 14:41:13 ? Oct 20 14:41:37 that will madly switch between 400 and 165 MHz or something along these lines Oct 20 14:41:59 I certainly hope not. Oct 20 15:14:39 In the LED patterns file, does anybody know what the "trigger" means? Oct 20 15:16:16 also, what happens when you ask for two patterns of equal priority? Do they run in sequence? Oct 20 15:17:13 I'll give you the same answer I gave last time when a question similar to this rose... Oct 20 15:17:19 that would be kinda nice to be able to hand out multiple alerts. Oct 20 15:18:52 WARNING: dental injection detected, please ensure all SQL parameters are correctly quoted Oct 20 15:21:44 poor lcuk Oct 20 15:22:43 Stskeeps, this has gone on for too long :'( Oct 20 15:35:29 lcuk: Don't let them do a JOIN! Oct 20 15:43:39 Is there any way to type a Tab from the n810 hardware keyboard? Oct 20 15:43:50 ^I Oct 20 15:44:34 That may work in xterm, but fails in GUIs. Oct 20 15:45:29 I could swear that Sh-Space or Fn-Space did it once, but it doesn't now. Oct 20 15:47:01 RST38h, its the global deletion i was afraid of, but its worse: he got root Oct 20 15:48:16 ToyKeeper, if you bought your device second hand someone could have added it - the combo you specify has been written about in numerous places Oct 20 15:48:19 it can be done Oct 20 15:51:45 Ah, regular xmodmap stuff. That should make it easy. :) Oct 20 15:53:19 Except, of course, for the lack of an xmodmap binary. :( Oct 20 15:53:40 http://mg.pov.lt/770/ Oct 20 15:54:02 If you dislike adding repos: http://mg.pov.lt/770/dists/diablo/user/binary-armel/xmodmap_1.0.2-0ubuntu1mg1_armel.deb Oct 20 15:54:20 Thanks. :) Oct 20 15:54:36 np Oct 20 15:54:45 I don't mind adding repos, but I find it very odd that core utilities aren't in the primary feeds. Oct 20 15:54:58 * qwerty12 gets on with making transmission look better on tablet Oct 20 15:55:23 ToyKeeper: If someone wished to, it could be uploaded to extras[-devel] :) Oct 20 15:56:41 Grr, something tells me deleting .svn folders from transmission was a bad idea Oct 20 16:08:57 A question, what size is the icon that comes up when you press the home button and the programs running are there? Oct 20 16:09:06 Hi, I was wondering if there was any N800's .. some defect that Wifi didnt work or SD cards? Oct 20 16:09:37 zakkm: i haven't heard of direct wifi problems really Oct 20 16:09:40 or sd card problems Oct 20 16:09:50 .. except for the slot getting wet, but that's a different story Oct 20 16:10:10 k im suppose to buy one used off someone for $150 .. and i dont really have a sd card to check .. and theres no wifi where we're meeting i dont think Oct 20 16:10:26 in like 2 hours. Oct 20 16:10:35 look for scratches, that it boots, - there's supposed to be a 64m flash along i believe? Oct 20 16:10:48 Also, Is $195 alot for a Nokia n800 still in box ( Canadian dollars ) Oct 20 16:10:54 no, it's a decent price Oct 20 16:11:03 just verify it's not a rock, that the stand is okay Oct 20 16:11:08 and stylus is there Oct 20 16:11:10 and battery Oct 20 16:11:12 person put it up for $250 .. im like ill give $170.. hes like best i can sell to you is $195 Oct 20 16:11:15 that it boots Oct 20 16:11:31 i have stylus's from my old nokia 770 ? Oct 20 16:11:37 yeah, but they won't fit probably Oct 20 16:11:39 in the casing Oct 20 16:11:41 oh really? Oct 20 16:11:44 weird ;p Oct 20 16:11:54 battery? isnt that cheap to replace anyways? Oct 20 16:11:56 like $20 ? Oct 20 16:11:57 possibly Oct 20 16:12:06 but im just trying to keep you defrauded :P Oct 20 16:12:13 its a nokia BP-5 right? Oct 20 16:12:15 ah Oct 20 16:12:22 well lol if it doesnt turn on. . i wont buy ;p Oct 20 16:12:26 look at the external and internal sd ports Oct 20 16:12:27 so Oct 20 16:12:53 (pop under stand and under battery cover) Oct 20 16:12:53 i have no SD's to check .. Oct 20 16:12:56 is there another way ? Oct 20 16:12:58 just check the ports look o Oct 20 16:12:59 ok Oct 20 16:13:37 you know what.. therre should be some "check" program on it :P Oct 20 16:13:41 for stuff like this Oct 20 16:13:41 mm Oct 20 16:13:58 just my opinion :P Oct 20 16:14:02 is it fresh from box? Oct 20 16:14:07 no Oct 20 16:14:09 ah Oct 20 16:14:19 scratches on screen, definately check Oct 20 16:14:23 this other guy is willing to give me a brand new in box. .for $195.. Oct 20 16:14:29 the used one im buying in a few hours = $150 Oct 20 16:14:31 ah Oct 20 16:14:36 see how it works i guess Oct 20 16:14:41 there's wifi in odd places Oct 20 16:14:51 im in Toronto :P Oct 20 16:14:54 there is but locked.. Oct 20 16:15:32 that's fine Oct 20 16:15:43 if it detects it, it most likely will connect Oct 20 16:15:45 that would be mean it works? Oct 20 16:15:49 yeah Oct 20 16:15:52 most likely.. Oct 20 16:16:06 if it can send out a probe and receive answers, yes, it works :P Oct 20 16:16:30 k Oct 20 16:16:38 sorry i didnt take gr12 computer engineer.. ( networking.. ) Oct 20 16:16:49 me neither, really Oct 20 16:16:50 :P Oct 20 16:16:58 i just a comp.sci course about networks Oct 20 16:17:07 and general knowledge about the stuff Oct 20 16:17:19 * Stskeeps goes try to boot his beagleboard Oct 20 16:17:28 beagleboard? Oct 20 16:17:36 www.beagleboard.org Oct 20 16:18:01 wtf? Oct 20 16:18:07 so its a laptop ? Oct 20 16:18:09 i dont get it Oct 20 16:18:49 it's a very tiny tiny 600-700mhz ARM computer, with 256mb internal flash, s-video, dvi/hdmi out, sound out/in Oct 20 16:18:53 and 128mb ram Oct 20 16:19:00 usb, serial Oct 20 16:19:06 whats the purpose? Oct 20 16:19:16 ARM? why ARM? Oct 20 16:19:20 that makes it so limited? Oct 20 16:19:22 it also takes 1-2W. Oct 20 16:19:22 :P Oct 20 16:19:28 on full load? Oct 20 16:19:31 yup Oct 20 16:19:38 can run from usb power Oct 20 16:19:40 can you install maemo on it? Oct 20 16:19:48 wait what? Oct 20 16:19:49 some have done that, but it's not very portable Oct 20 16:19:53 so you plug it into your normal pc? Oct 20 16:19:56 you can Oct 20 16:19:59 or power from wall Oct 20 16:20:15 i dont see the purpose :P Oct 20 16:20:20 waste of $149 Oct 20 16:20:23 you just lack imagination Oct 20 16:20:26 don't blame us Oct 20 16:20:28 yes, what Proteous said Oct 20 16:20:39 zakkm: also, the new nokia tablets are the same architecture as this board Oct 20 16:20:44 i know Oct 20 16:20:50 I don't suppose there's any way to make Fn/Shift/Chr/Ctrl sticky, is there? (So, 'G' would be: press shift, release, press g, release) Oct 20 16:20:50 OMAP2 though isnt it? Oct 20 16:20:52 not OMAP3? Oct 20 16:20:52 OMAP3 Oct 20 16:20:56 ohh Oct 20 16:20:58 the next one? Oct 20 16:21:01 next nokia? Oct 20 16:21:01 yeah Oct 20 16:21:15 zakkm: and it's a full computer for 149$ really Oct 20 16:21:15 add sd card and you got a linux computer Oct 20 16:21:21 but ARM .. :P Oct 20 16:21:23 pft. Oct 20 16:21:24 :P Oct 20 16:21:29 it's good for the environment. Oct 20 16:21:32 think of the children. Oct 20 16:21:39 zakkm: and your tablet is ARM too Oct 20 16:21:40 :P Oct 20 16:21:42 theres barely any binaries for ARM .. and compiling on a 600mhz arm ? Oct 20 16:21:43 ;p Oct 20 16:21:46 no its not Oct 20 16:21:48 i dont have one yet Oct 20 16:21:49 :P Oct 20 16:21:51 zakkm: entire debian exists for armel Oct 20 16:21:53 well, 99% Oct 20 16:21:55 my 770 got WSOD... Oct 20 16:21:56 ToyKeeper: on my n810 everything is stickey except control Oct 20 16:22:04 ubuntu exists too Oct 20 16:22:05 fedora Oct 20 16:22:23 ;pp sounds good Oct 20 16:22:27 its all coming to me now Oct 20 16:22:41 external power supply, SD card, that.. and thats it? :P Oct 20 16:22:47 monitor, keyboard, mouse? Oct 20 16:23:06 Well, none of the modifiers are sticky on mine. I have no idea why. Oct 20 16:23:27 Is there like "distros" of maemo .. ppl make? Oct 20 16:23:31 mine are sticky also Oct 20 16:23:32 not yet Oct 20 16:23:48 damn, that'll be cool Oct 20 16:24:00 zakkm: a computer to power by a usb charger or a power supply, add sd on 8gb, add dvi/hdmi or TV, usb hub and keyboard & mouse Oct 20 16:24:03 and you're set Oct 20 16:24:17 on a 600mhz ARM.. on a TV res .. :P Oct 20 16:24:26 or on a flatscreen Oct 20 16:24:34 it can handle 720p Oct 20 16:24:37 don't underestimate it Oct 20 16:24:41 lol Oct 20 16:24:44 720p sucks Oct 20 16:24:48 my 17" does 1280x1024. . :P Oct 20 16:24:56 yeah, 109292834885899393p is where it's at Oct 20 16:25:03 wtf? Oct 20 16:25:04 lolo Oct 20 16:25:11 squareroot it :P Oct 20 16:25:12 zakkm: you suck, i'm going to go boot my debian on this thing :P Oct 20 16:25:18 lol Oct 20 16:25:22 $149 is alot :P Oct 20 16:25:23 zakkm is a wet blanket Oct 20 16:25:34 My D945gclf ( Mini-ITX , Atom CPU ) costed me $74 Oct 20 16:25:42 i added ram, powersupply, harddrive Oct 20 16:26:33 I have a via eden cl-6000 miniITX board that I installed into a tape drive Oct 20 16:26:34 tiny isnt always better ;p Oct 20 16:26:39 lol Oct 20 16:26:42 where you get a tape drive? Oct 20 16:26:46 those things are expensniveeee Oct 20 16:26:46 er, tape deck Oct 20 16:27:03 yeah but mine runs mac osx :) Oct 20 16:27:12 im on it now.p its my main pc Oct 20 16:27:20 zakkm, haha you suck, I have D945GCLF2 ! Oct 20 16:27:25 http://mike.ogaz.org/files/closedfront.jpg Oct 20 16:27:26 those are crap Oct 20 16:27:31 bad osx x86 support Oct 20 16:27:44 ShadowJK: i bought it like a week before 2 came out Oct 20 16:27:58 is there a way to have alternative modern images for N770 os2006 is quite old now Oct 20 16:28:00 ShadowJK_ * Oct 20 16:28:20 Hey is there a way to have OS2005 skin on Diablo? I really like it :P Oct 20 16:28:27 bapt, sorta Oct 20 16:28:37 there are the hacker edition OS images Oct 20 16:28:51 I pre-ordered the -2 before it came out Oct 20 16:28:54 they aren't amazingly stable Oct 20 16:29:14 noo Oct 20 16:29:15 :( Oct 20 16:29:24 I'll try it anyway thanks Oct 20 16:29:24 Im talking about .. im about to buy a n800.. and install diablo Oct 20 16:29:28 but i like the OS2005 look .... Oct 20 16:29:38 ... Oct 20 16:29:56 what? i had a nokia 770 and i really liked the look better -.- Oct 20 16:30:28 hacker editions are slow --.- yeah i know theres ram and low cpu to blame but yeah Oct 20 16:30:48 ShadowJK_ : ahh.. my old pc failed on me.. so i had to buy something quick Oct 20 16:31:03 ShadowJK_ : my first D945gclf.. caught into smoke :P Oct 20 16:31:12 they gave me a full exchange ;p Oct 20 16:31:28 they said refund or exchagne.. im like ill take exchange ;p Oct 20 16:31:45 Proteous: thanks I didn't know about it before, I'll test that asap Oct 20 16:33:11 did you remove the fan or something? Oct 20 16:33:18 no Oct 20 16:33:56 a capacitor failed i guess.. and one part of the motherboard went reallyyy hot.. one of the chips. and smoke cant out from it Oct 20 16:34:01 relally hot = really red.. Oct 20 16:34:17 I forget what they're called. Oct 20 16:34:23 the black thing. with legs.. Oct 20 16:35:51 transistors Oct 20 16:36:09 well Oct 20 16:36:18 the tube shaped things are capacitors Oct 20 16:36:27 and only have 2 lets Oct 20 16:36:42 the black square things with 3 legs are transistors Oct 20 16:36:45 i know capacitors Oct 20 16:36:49 ah yes Oct 20 16:36:52 trnasistors Oct 20 16:36:59 there are no transistors on the board... Oct 20 16:37:07 there fucking is Oct 20 16:37:10 omg Oct 20 16:37:12 But there are a few flat multilegged things Oct 20 16:37:16 yeah Oct 20 16:37:18 those Oct 20 16:37:24 switches are they? Oct 20 16:37:44 whatever, i failed computer engineer.... one went red.. and huge smoke came out Oct 20 16:37:45 One of the realtek chips on mine runs a bit hot, I think it's a clock generator Oct 20 16:38:01 anyways.. it was a defect anyways Oct 20 16:38:07 power off.. fan still span Oct 20 16:38:13 etc. Oct 20 16:38:27 no transistors on the board.... Oct 20 16:38:28 wasnt my fault. Oct 20 16:38:34 what do you think computers are made of? Oct 20 16:38:35 whatever lol Oct 20 16:38:48 i dont know what they're called!!! Oct 20 16:38:50 i just said that Oct 20 16:39:00 someone else said transistors Oct 20 16:39:01 was talking to ShadowJK_ Oct 20 16:39:09 w.e Oct 20 16:39:14 :P Oct 20 16:39:15 it was a defect.. so i got a new one :P Oct 20 16:39:26 I have to go head for skool ( on lunch break ) and call the guy about the nokia . Oct 20 16:39:28 w00t Oct 20 16:39:38 talk to a man about a horse Oct 20 16:51:11 Well, great. After some minor changes, rebooting causes a shutdown. Oct 20 16:51:44 Or, a reboot loop, anyway. Oct 20 17:09:53 ~lart effin power cuts Oct 20 17:09:54 * infobot throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at effin power cuts Oct 20 17:11:27 So, after getting stuck in a reboot loop in diablo, is there any way to get a copy of the mtd contents or access a recovery mode? Oct 20 17:11:50 got bootmenu with usb recovery? :P Oct 20 17:11:55 Nope. Oct 20 17:12:28 * qwerty12 has to ponder why every person who asks that question doesn't have bootmenu Oct 20 17:12:42 because they wouldn't ask if they did :) Oct 20 17:12:52 True, true :) Oct 20 17:12:59 * Stskeeps continues fighting with the beagleboard Oct 20 17:13:20 It'd be nice if the default wasn't so fragile. Oct 20 17:13:42 ToyKeeper: we're hoping to include some good things in community edition :P Oct 20 17:13:44 or whatever its name is Oct 20 17:13:56 btw Oct 20 17:14:23 restart loop was because of disc space? Oct 20 17:14:31 it can be a lot of things really Oct 20 17:14:32 Nope, plenty of space. Oct 20 17:15:18 My guess is it didn't like a setting in /etc/osso-af-init/ Oct 20 17:15:26 i didn't have it. even with coreutils installed on flash clone Oct 20 17:16:08 hello i have compiled the maemo_hello app. how do i copy it out of scratch box into my home dir to copy then to n810? thanks. Oct 20 17:17:39 i use scp Oct 20 17:17:43 Stskeeps, what the hell is http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/contrib/deblet-flashplayer/fakehildon.c ? :) Oct 20 17:17:46 I changed the matchbox dialog mode from 'static' to 'free', and tried to restart to check if it worked. Oct 20 17:18:25 So, no way to recover data or edit files or the device without reflashing over everything? Oct 20 17:19:03 rule #1: do not use internal flash Oct 20 17:19:22 ToyKeeper: well... thi internal card on a n810 seems to survive flashing, although i never trust it for critical stuff Oct 20 17:19:29 slo: is that for me? i was thinking of copying to internal flash Oct 20 17:20:05 jagernot, to ToyKeeper Oct 20 17:20:42 slonopotamus: a trick not enough people have noticed Oct 20 17:20:57 sd clone is good because inn case of error you'll be able to extract data using card-reader Oct 20 17:21:12 s/inn/in Oct 20 17:22:36 is it possible to copy mameo_hello from inside scratchbox to n810? Oct 20 17:22:47 i thought of copying to the internal flash card Oct 20 17:22:55 and running it via the xterm Oct 20 17:23:41 jagernot: think the cards are mounted no-exec. Oct 20 17:23:57 jagernot: dpkg-buildpackage it i guess and put deb on Oct 20 17:24:00 + formatted with fat by default Oct 20 17:24:16 If rule #1 is not to use the internal flash, it seems awfully ignorant of axiom #1: 99% of the population uses defaults 99% of the time. Oct 20 17:25:58 Stskeeps: i type dpkg-buildpackage maemo_hello? Oct 20 17:26:23 hmm, that aigo/gigabyte mid seems to have a comparable batterylife to the N800... Oct 20 17:26:44 I'd expect this sort of failure mode on a preview 770 unit in 2005, but it seems rather out of place 3 years later. Oct 20 17:27:19 ToyKeeper: internal sd card, flash is differennt Oct 20 17:28:17 jagernot: scp it over ? Oct 20 17:29:31 Heh. anyone seen the iKit? Oct 20 17:31:32 It looks like someone shrunk a Zaurus slightly, gave it a horribly ugly keyboard and a QVGA screen and internal wifi. Oct 20 17:32:23 hmm, doing some file renaming seems to have confused the hell out of liqbase... Oct 20 17:32:48 well what did you try to do? Oct 20 17:33:31 i had two text files with the same name, one of wich i have opened in liqbase earlier. then i deleted that one, and renamed the other to match... Oct 20 17:33:52 If I try to boot, I get the white nokia screen, then the progress bar goes gradually across the screen (all the way), and then it reboots. Oct 20 17:33:53 i nthe same folder Oct 20 17:33:55 now i cant open the renamed file... Oct 20 17:33:59 yep Oct 20 17:34:22 in the book selecter i see a 0 next to the file name... Oct 20 17:34:24 what does it do when you try opening it Oct 20 17:34:41 not just ignores it from what i can tell Oct 20 17:35:07 oh wait, there it responded. but im not sure if its the new or old file, as the layout seems strange... Oct 20 17:35:12 any chance you could send me the log Oct 20 17:35:26 ill get to the bottom of it Oct 20 17:35:34 its probably the history list thats not worked Oct 20 17:36:02 and since im in lb at the moment now might be the best time :) :P Oct 20 17:36:28 hi i can't flash my n810, i got a message "Suitable USB device not found, waiting", what should i do now? Oct 20 17:36:33 hi Stskeeps: thanks, i have got it into n810 on the internal card but cant run it :( Oct 20 17:36:45 jagernot: chmod a+rx it Oct 20 17:36:47 permission denied..cant chmod +x it Oct 20 17:36:51 copy it to /root Oct 20 17:36:54 or somewhere Oct 20 17:37:03 oh ok Oct 20 17:37:54 meh, seems it was showing the new file, and i was simply not reading the book selection interface correctly Oct 20 17:38:39 that and the layout was correct, i had just fiddled with it in fbreader for so long that i had compensated for it there Oct 20 17:39:39 trying to convert pdf to text while attempting to keep things somewhat similar in layout, but allowing for reflows of the text can be a pain... Oct 20 17:41:38 yes Oct 20 17:42:08 sbut its basically ok for now, as in lb isnt "that" confused (obviously the fileselect could do with some normalization and changes in near future) Oct 20 17:42:49 Can I perhaps put a bootable image on a SD card and get it to boot that instead? (then use it to recover data from the internal flash) Oct 20 17:44:16 ToyKeeper: i sadly don't have a n810 else you could get a usbnet enabled initfs Oct 20 17:44:46 I take it the initfs can be flashed without overwriting the root partition? Oct 20 17:45:06 initfs images are generic Oct 20 17:45:22 ToyKeeper: yeah Oct 20 17:45:43 Okay, this sounds promising. I've found these... http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#initfs Oct 20 17:45:54 yeah, but they're installers, not initfs images Oct 20 17:46:15 Hmm. Oct 20 17:46:25 um Oct 20 17:46:26 if you're really into hack foo, grab a fiasco image, extract initfs, mount its jffs2 on mtdram, patch Oct 20 17:46:40 ToyKeeper, if you have some time and knowledge about mtd stuff, you can generate a usbnet image with bootmenu Oct 20 17:47:59 i find it interesting how, if i hold the N800 so that the camera stalk extends towards the celing, the image on screen shows me upside down. at least thats the camera app. in liqbase, im shown the correct way however :P Oct 20 17:48:35 lol t_s_o ive not got an 800, but ive heard people can get upside down images Oct 20 17:48:48 i should really fix it :$ Oct 20 17:49:00 Okay, I have some ideas to get me started. Thanks! :) Oct 20 17:49:08 but no1s ever give me a bug report Oct 20 17:49:14 image rotation with camera is a gstreamer function which nokia camera apps are known to use Oct 20 17:49:21 well, it shows it the correct way, if i just let it sit on the table using the stand. but if i rotate it 90 degrees to left or right, the image just becomes weird... Oct 20 17:49:29 s/gstreamer/v4l iirc Oct 20 17:49:50 note however, im not talking about rotating the stalk Oct 20 17:50:16 yeah qwerty, never experienced the issue so cant cure it - no doubt with the camera saving being so easy in this version it will come to the fore Oct 20 17:50:16 ugh, the amount of noice that camera produces... Oct 20 17:50:43 oh, you mean tearing like a bad cameraphone ;) Oct 20 17:50:54 and year, its VERY noisy in bad light Oct 20 17:51:19 i already half the saturation to try to at least give reasonable images (UV channels are most susceptable) Oct 20 17:51:40 lcuk, :). i'm not really so bothered, i hardly turn mine :p Oct 20 17:53:11 lcuk, btw can i get version from inside liqbase or do i have to dpkg -s liqbase? Oct 20 17:53:12 wow my hello world runs! Oct 20 17:53:17 im so happy thanks guys Oct 20 17:53:44 qwerty12_N800, ~/.liqbase/liqbase.run.log contains everything you need to know :) look at the top line Oct 20 17:53:58 or just run liqbase-run from the console Oct 20 17:54:06 ah, ok, thanks! Oct 20 17:54:10 thanks for the reminder anyway Oct 20 17:54:17 i knew i wanted to do something Oct 20 17:54:22 im adding version to the front Oct 20 18:03:54 hey all! Oct 20 18:04:10 I'm having some serious issues here with SIP calling - I can almost always hear the other side, but they can't hear me. Oct 20 18:04:17 any ideas where I can look for that? Oct 20 18:04:35 I also have it so that the nokia is the DMZ Oct 20 18:04:40 but that doesn't seem to help. Oct 20 18:04:41 have ogg support installed? Oct 20 18:04:47 moo again Oct 20 18:04:50 I don't believe so. Oct 20 18:04:57 should I install or uninstall it? Oct 20 18:05:19 uninstall it if you do :) Oct 20 18:05:30 (or delete speex codec) Oct 20 18:06:14 "no matches" for OGG Oct 20 18:06:20 and where is the speex codec? Oct 20 18:06:31 qwerty12, where are 11 previous qwerties? Oct 20 18:07:13 orangey, it is only installed if you have ogg support. i don't think that is your problem. Oct 20 18:07:34 slonopotamus, no idea, this was a random nick :p Oct 20 18:07:40 what's the package for ogg support? Oct 20 18:08:13 ok. ogg-support Oct 20 18:08:19 I certainly don't have that. Oct 20 18:08:25 so, moving on.. any other ideas? Oct 20 18:11:40 * GeneralAntilles wonders where dneary's hiding. Oct 20 18:11:54 GeneralAntilles: debian on beagle just now :) Oct 20 18:12:10 Stskeeps, how's it feel? Oct 20 18:12:22 GeneralAntilles: good :P Oct 20 18:12:29 Just, fyi, most of the precompiled stuff runs at 500MHz. Oct 20 18:12:34 yeah Oct 20 18:12:36 no ui though, just bare debian Oct 20 18:13:30 and by "stuff" I mean "kernels" Oct 20 18:13:40 * rm_you runs by Oct 20 18:13:41 hi Oct 20 18:13:41 bye Oct 20 18:13:44 * rm_you leaves Oct 20 18:13:53 GeneralAntilles: ah Oct 20 18:13:54 * GeneralAntilles impales rm_you and sticks him to the wall. Oct 20 18:14:07 u-boot may also be involved Oct 20 18:17:00 Damn sjgadsby and his karma whoring Oct 20 18:19:05 where do you see maemo karma these days? Oct 20 18:20:09 Posting that damn bugjar everywhere he can find. :P Oct 20 18:20:23 http://maemo.org/profile/list/ Oct 20 18:20:45 Though it seems to be stuck . . . again. Oct 20 18:20:47 X-Fade, ping. Oct 20 18:21:38 profile name "test" with karma 203, heh Oct 20 18:22:35 GeneralAntilles: pong Oct 20 18:22:43 X-Fade, karma's been broken for a while. Oct 20 18:23:07 and does anybody have an opinion on http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2784 ? Oct 20 18:23:41 GeneralAntilles: Yes, I'll talk to bergie about it. It seems to stop somewhere. Oct 20 18:27:09 GeneralAntilles: I don't have the behavior explained in the bug. No weird touch screen clicks for me. Oct 20 18:27:32 X-Fade, good enough for me. RESOLVING Oct 20 18:36:30 Stskeeps: I suggest to merge all tablet-* and nit-env* packages into one source package with many binary packages Oct 20 18:37:17 suihkulokki: possible, - they do share many of the same characteristichs Oct 20 18:37:20 (sp) Oct 20 18:37:26 Nice Oct 20 18:37:44 suihkulokki: i'll take that into consideration and look at it when i have time Oct 20 18:38:24 suihkulokki: any justification for it though? Oct 20 18:40:22 .. or than they're small often meta packages :) Oct 20 18:41:00 Stskeeps: well it's just unneccesary duplication to have same template makefile, debian/rules for each of the packages :) Oct 20 18:41:04 yeah, true Oct 20 18:41:38 ..and it's approximately 1/20:th of the work to get one package instead of 20 packages to debian ;) Oct 20 18:43:23 and it's fairly common idiom in debian packaging - see meta-gnome2, meta-kde, etc Oct 20 18:44:01 suihkulokki: i'm not sure if i discussed this before, but since debian armel is armv4t, and there would be a performance gain to taking some base packages and recompiling for let's say armv6el-vfp.. is it then just a matter of prioritizing repos in apt to get the optimized ones? Oct 20 18:45:04 (and maybe a custom repo to debootstrap from) Oct 20 18:46:31 while still being able to get unoptimized debian armel packages from the traditional repos Oct 20 18:46:32 Stskeeps: that's a good start, atleast to figure out which packages/libs actually make any sort performance difference when compliled with armv6vfp Oct 20 18:46:55 *nod* Oct 20 18:47:25 since we deal with mobile devices it might make a difference as well for power consumption, but i'm not an engineer :) Oct 20 18:47:59 packages such as ffmpeg/mplayer which are known to be able to take advantage are already typically installed from a different repo (debian-multimedia.org) Oct 20 18:48:35 they differ on priority or versions? Oct 20 18:48:43 version Oct 20 18:49:20 and that's "good form"?, changelog item being "override version because of optimized compilation" Oct 20 18:49:22 although you can set apt priority to prefer the alternative archive Oct 20 18:49:26 *nod* Oct 20 18:50:15 think i'll put the two beagleboards at work to work on some builds eventually i guess :) Oct 20 18:53:42 to get into debian, currently the way is to create a libfoo- binary package, such as libc-i686 on x86 Oct 20 18:54:22 yeah.. and that gets messy after a bit i guess Oct 20 18:54:26 or even better, runtime detection Oct 20 18:54:42 yeah, the -arch doesn't really scale Oct 20 18:56:35 suihkulokki: you happen to know how "complete" debian-experimental's upstart is? i mean, obviously it might only do the sysv init stuff Oct 20 18:56:40 however, despite of what the gentoo fans claim, very few apps/libs manage to get significantly faster when compiled specifically for your cpu ;) Oct 20 18:56:58 i suspect gtk might like it, and maybe dash/bash :P Oct 20 18:57:12 Still, power is precious on the tablets Oct 20 18:57:17 not gtk, but cairo :) Oct 20 18:57:21 true Oct 20 19:00:04 hi, i can't upgrade firmware on my n810, can anyone help me? Oct 20 19:00:05 the difference in performance between arm versions is not that great Oct 20 19:00:19 well, vfp must do a difference Oct 20 19:00:24 so, don't bother, although you may gain something from arm/thumb alternation Oct 20 19:00:26 for fp-intensive apps Oct 20 19:00:28 vfp will Oct 20 19:00:32 RST38h: it's already thumb though Oct 20 19:00:38 but fp intensive apps are few Oct 20 19:00:46 just means less packages to build ;) Oct 20 19:01:30 zs, just say what's wrong. Oct 20 19:02:35 GeneralAntilles: i am holding this swap button and there is no usb logo :/ Oct 20 19:02:46 Is usb plugged in? Oct 20 19:02:52 yes Oct 20 19:02:55 Did you power up while holding swap? Oct 20 19:03:04 yes Oct 20 19:03:09 Are you sure you have the right button (two overlapping rectangles)? Oct 20 19:03:20 yes Oct 20 19:03:39 there is a video on youtube, i am doing exaclty the same Oct 20 19:03:47 Try changing USB ports? Oct 20 19:05:23 Do you have the charger plugged in? Oct 20 19:05:46 * Stskeeps usually just turns off tablet without charger on, plug in usb, start flasher, plug in charger Oct 20 19:06:24 charger? Oct 20 19:06:52 you know, the one that breathes life into your tablet Oct 20 19:07:01 yes i know Oct 20 19:07:10 but is it necessary? Oct 20 19:07:18 No, it shouldn't be plugged in. Oct 20 19:08:23 doesn't work Oct 20 19:10:34 hi Oct 20 19:10:45 how long should i hold those buttons down? Oct 20 19:10:53 It should pop up instantly Oct 20 19:11:00 Walk us through exactly the steps you're taking. Oct 20 19:11:11 ok Oct 20 19:11:24 * mgedmin idly remarks that he never ever held any buttons down while flashing his three tablets Oct 20 19:11:31 *g* Oct 20 19:11:45 hm yes this description is annoying Oct 20 19:11:57 mgedmin, eh, if it's not going into flashing mode, then there are bigger problems. Oct 20 19:12:21 mgedmin is your powercord still inserted? Oct 20 19:12:28 no Oct 20 19:12:29 zs, are you using Linux? Oct 20 19:12:33 you can't flash while it's charging Oct 20 19:12:50 i connect my miniusb cable, i hold down this upper button, i hold power button down for 1 sec, device switch on and there is no usb connection logo Oct 20 19:12:57 mgedmin, i've flashed it with the charger in Oct 20 19:13:08 GeneralAntilles: yes, and i tried on windows as well Oct 20 19:13:10 zs, double check the other end of the usb is plugged in ;) Oct 20 19:13:29 * lcuk has forgotten that :$ Oct 20 19:13:30 lcuk: it is Oct 20 19:13:36 zs: upper button? 'home' is the lower button Oct 20 19:13:59 http://blog.fon.com/en/archive/n810_02_web_low.jpg Oct 20 19:14:01 qwerty12_N800: afaics you can charge while you're flashing, but you can't flash while you're charging Oct 20 19:14:02 Not on N810 Oct 20 19:14:18 oh, darn Oct 20 19:14:20 right Oct 20 19:14:26 mgedmin: swap button Oct 20 19:14:29 * mgedmin hides head in a paper bag Oct 20 19:14:38 zs, start the Linux flasher Oct 20 19:14:43 hmmmmm quick q: for now, camera refresh 15fps but picks up less light at night, but smoother view. or 8fps more jerky but less grainy Oct 20 19:14:54 GeneralAntilles: done Oct 20 19:14:55 hi lcuk Oct 20 19:15:01 hiya woglinde :) Oct 20 19:15:13 Make sure USB is plugged in and power up the tablet with just the power button Oct 20 19:15:26 mgedmin, sure, with the charger in, the tablet boots up but you have a time where nolo is there and if the usb is in, it starts flashing Oct 20 19:15:40 hmm Oct 20 19:15:41 hm did he start falsher? Oct 20 19:15:45 ups flasher Oct 20 19:15:48 qwerty12_N800, stop playing the technicalities game. :P Oct 20 19:16:10 Grr, it's all true though :p Oct 20 19:16:14 GeneralAntilles: done Oct 20 19:16:40 qwerty12_N800, 0.00000001s is not normally something an unoptimised human can achieve. yes we know data managed it, but hes not here any more Oct 20 19:17:30 by the way, has jott ascended? Oct 20 19:17:56 the tricky part is that people plug in the charger and then assume they can reboot the tabled by pressing the power button, which appears to work, but actually doesn't reboot Oct 20 19:17:57 zs, did it flash? Oct 20 19:18:15 no Oct 20 19:18:22 lcuk, the flasher just has to be started. Oct 20 19:18:25 mgedmin, :) i would liek a real power button Oct 20 19:18:33 zs, well, then it's the port at either end or the USB cable. Oct 20 19:18:39 lcuk: it's called "pull the battery" Oct 20 19:18:40 lcuk, exaggerate much? honestly, sometimes when my battery is dead and i need to reflash, i just put the usb cable in, leave the flasher searching for devices and plug in the pow cable Oct 20 19:18:51 s/pow/power Oct 20 19:18:55 qwerty likes living dangerously Oct 20 19:19:02 lol Oct 20 19:19:08 lol Oct 20 19:19:17 lol Oct 20 19:19:19 Zombies! Oct 20 19:19:23 especially with his other nick Oct 20 19:19:58 i cant believe that one was 2% lamer than qwerty12 :p Oct 20 19:20:10 ^ more Oct 20 19:20:24 i cant believe your sum total lameness comes to over 100% Oct 20 19:20:39 * GeneralAntilles can. Oct 20 19:20:57 heh Oct 20 19:20:59 ~nickometer infobot Oct 20 19:21:01 'infobot' is 0.000% lame, qwerty12_n80o Oct 20 19:21:10 infobot, you fucker Oct 20 19:21:41 GeneralAntilles, You're deluding yourself. :P Oct 20 19:22:03 Somebody's gotta keep that big head of yours in check. :P Oct 20 19:22:11 GeneralAntilles, did anyone put up a flashing wiki which included big pictures of related models and arrows showing just which key it was meant to press Oct 20 19:22:24 lcuk nope Oct 20 19:22:25 lol Oct 20 19:22:30 lcuk, I never managed to talk anybody into making me some nice pictograms. Oct 20 19:22:31 even the flash site now is blank Oct 20 19:23:05 GeneralAntilles: how long should i hold this swap button down? Oct 20 19:23:15 zs, it should come up immediately. Oct 20 19:23:20 I'm blaming hardware at this point. Oct 20 19:23:20 hi moontiger Oct 20 19:23:29 Has it ever been successfully flashed before? Oct 20 19:23:35 * moontiger waves :) Oct 20 19:24:11 GeneralAntilles: don't know i bought it today Oct 20 19:24:13 moontiger!1!1~eleven Oct 20 19:24:16 *cough* Oct 20 19:24:17 zs, what's the battery level like on your tablet? does it hang at the nokia screen and then go off? Oct 20 19:24:53 qwerty12_N80O: it is fully charged Oct 20 19:25:09 * moontiger looks puzzled Oct 20 19:25:19 dbus-monitor --moontiger Oct 20 19:25:22 <--- eating lunch Oct 20 19:25:25 hiya moontiger good mornin and all that Oct 20 19:25:26 zs, if it's retail, I'd go exchange it. Oct 20 19:25:29 hahaha Oct 20 19:25:37 moontiger: enjoy :) Oct 20 19:25:47 GeneralAntilles: it is second handed Oct 20 19:26:05 i am ... i made it myself Oct 20 19:26:12 this device isn't available in my country Oct 20 19:26:41 could it be an actual problem just with the usb itself and how can you check.. Oct 20 19:27:54 lcuk: usb port works i can upload files on nokia Oct 20 19:28:32 ok, well firstly - you arent the first to have this trouble, i think everyones banged head about it Oct 20 19:28:52 21:28 -!- Irssi: Doing this is not a good idea. Add -YES option to command if you really mean it Oct 20 19:28:54 its an 810 Oct 20 19:28:56 is it/ Oct 20 19:28:57 EPASTA Oct 20 19:29:20 ~nickometer Oct 20 19:29:22 '' is 0.000% lame, mgedmin Oct 20 19:29:26 ~nickometer qwerty12_n80o Oct 20 19:29:27 'qwerty12_n80o' is 60.000% lame, mgedmin Oct 20 19:29:36 lol Oct 20 19:29:52 ~nickometer mgedmin Oct 20 19:29:53 'mgedmin' is 0.000% lame, qwerty12_n80o Oct 20 19:29:57 haha Oct 20 19:29:59 haha Oct 20 19:30:09 the logic is flawed I tell you! Oct 20 19:30:23 *g* Oct 20 19:30:38 grr, i'm the only lame one here :p Oct 20 19:30:56 lcuk: yes it is n810 Oct 20 19:31:54 it took me about 20 minutes the first time and i thought it was knackered Oct 20 19:32:35 lol, i had my device flashed in 10 mins after taking it out the box ;P Oct 20 19:33:00 though i was reading up before the n800 arrived at my doorstep Oct 20 19:33:39 same here Oct 20 19:33:53 but mostly cos i had a n800 at work :P Oct 20 19:36:13 another problem is with gps, it searching and searching and nothing :/ Oct 20 19:37:26 wait and see how it is after reflashing Oct 20 19:37:38 hmm "Press and hold the swap key and switch on the device" Oct 20 19:37:50 i thought you turned on, then pressed the swap key thing Oct 20 19:38:12 zs go outside Oct 20 19:38:23 zs inside you do not get a good signal Oct 20 19:38:46 lcuk: Ok. Now, what about animals and microwave owens? =) Oct 20 19:39:24 ? Oct 20 19:39:33 also, be prepared to wait 20 minutes to get your first gps fix Oct 20 19:39:42 it's a bit faster after that Oct 20 19:39:53 lcuk: i hold the swap key and after i turned it on Oct 20 19:39:57 otoh if you install agps-ui, the first fix may be quicker too Oct 20 19:40:31 zs: with the charger disconnected before you turned off, and with the USB cable plugged in when you turned it on, and the flasher waiting on the other end? Oct 20 19:40:36 mgedmin, my gps seems to have worn in now, it gets a lock quickly - and i flatten the battery totally often Oct 20 19:43:21 mgedmin: yes Oct 20 19:43:43 there is a video on youtube how to do that, i did it the same Oct 20 19:44:22 i tried on gentoo, windows, it doesn't work :/ Oct 20 19:44:37 weird :/ Oct 20 19:44:57 no usb hubs in sight? Oct 20 19:47:38 how long should i hold down those buttons? Oct 20 19:48:07 and if you don't hold any buttons? Oct 20 19:48:36 it turns on Oct 20 19:48:57 http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/2008/01/nokia-n800-how-to-update-n800s-firmware.html Oct 20 19:49:07 yes!!! why dont we ever give this site out? Oct 20 19:49:38 it shows you for n800 and n810 Oct 20 19:50:17 GeneralAntilles, why dont we give people this link? Oct 20 19:50:24 lcuk: i am doing like on those videos Oct 20 19:50:25 can you add it to the thingy Oct 20 19:50:49 The topique? Oct 20 19:51:20 flashing! Oct 20 19:52:18 zs, disconnect power, pop the battery out for a few seconds and start cleanly Oct 20 19:52:55 if for whatever reason you are not in true power off mode and its not even getting to start, lets force the issue and be sure Oct 20 19:54:26 lcuk: for what is that blue led? Oct 20 19:54:56 it shows you that you pressed the power button Oct 20 19:54:56 the poweron light in the corner? Oct 20 19:55:06 and if you release power too early it shuts off again Oct 20 19:55:10 its like a car starting Oct 20 19:55:13 otherwise people would give up after a brief push Oct 20 19:55:23 and think their tablet is broken Oct 20 19:55:35 * mgedmin had big problems getting his first 770 to turn on, sometimes Oct 20 19:55:35 well i dont see why it needs a long push Oct 20 19:55:53 heh mgedmin do you have one of those crank starters :D Oct 20 19:55:57 cellphone mentality? "let's design this thing so it doesn't turn on accidentally in your pocket" Oct 20 19:56:13 lets design this so it never turns off more like Oct 20 19:56:55 ok im vanishin anyway Oct 20 19:56:57 bbl Oct 20 19:57:20 nit lcuk Oct 20 19:57:43 * lcuk isnt sleeping ;) Oct 20 19:57:53 theres code in them thar hills! Oct 20 20:01:28 lcuk: Oct 20 20:01:30 ~flashing Oct 20 20:01:31 methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 20 20:01:37 Because I don't have control over krisse's content. :P Oct 20 20:02:24 wave ya gavel, that link up there has videos Oct 20 20:02:59 and maemo aint workgin Oct 20 20:03:35 Do the videos cover flasher and 770Flasher? Oct 20 20:03:41 If not, then it's a bit Windows-centric to link. Oct 20 20:04:36 [in a sad, pleading voice] Anyone with embedded MIPS experience out there? ANYBODY? Oct 20 20:04:41 In all honesty, the windows sections of that wiki page are a bit vague :/ but it's a wiki. I should get off my ass and get editing. Oct 20 20:04:53 s/are/is Oct 20 20:05:26 qwerty12_N80O, it's vague because the Windows wizard walks you through everything. Oct 20 20:06:07 I used the windows flasher the first time I did it, just because it's brainless. Oct 20 20:06:23 True :) Oct 20 20:07:02 i tried on laptop it works Oct 20 20:07:11 amazing :) Oct 20 20:08:17 lol Oct 20 20:11:23 oh finally, a working scratch for diablo Oct 20 20:11:37 * Stskeeps added apt-get -d install to the script. Oct 20 20:11:41 scratchbox, that is Oct 20 20:14:21 ~curse GCC compiler for not adhering to MIPS ABI Oct 20 20:14:22 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, GCC compiler for not adhering to MIPS ABI ! Oct 20 20:14:42 RST38h ??? Oct 20 20:15:15 woglinde: m@#$%king thing for some reason thinks it does not have to save $s0..$s7 Oct 20 20:15:31 RST38h, burn this mips based product and use the money to get a nice arm based product Oct 20 20:15:45 qwerty: Not mine. Client insists on this one. Oct 20 20:15:54 Heh :/ Oct 20 20:16:06 It is not bad, really, runs real Linux on a 640x480 touch screen with XFCE Oct 20 20:16:25 RST38h hm which gcc version? Oct 20 20:16:27 It is just that nobody uses MIPS any more, so information is hard to come by Oct 20 20:16:39 RST38h wrong Oct 20 20:16:45 there a lot of peoples using mips Oct 20 20:16:52 ups people Oct 20 20:16:54 woglinde: mipsel-linux-gcc (GCC) 4.1.2 Oct 20 20:17:09 hm Oct 20 20:17:13 try a newer one? Oct 20 20:17:35 maybee binutils are broken too Oct 20 20:17:41 that is what I have got and I do not think the new one will suddenly start abiding by 20-years old MIPS ABI Oct 20 20:18:01 No, I did gcc -S and it does not look like it saves stuff Oct 20 20:23:13 hm n32 is not 20 years old Oct 20 20:27:01 1981 John Hennessy Oct 20 20:27:15 Also see Hw Architecture textbooks by him Oct 20 20:27:34 R3000 is 1988 Oct 20 20:27:56 hm Oct 20 20:27:57 okay Oct 20 20:37:25 anybody here uses VPNC with Diablo? Oct 20 20:53:02 ~ping Oct 20 20:53:03 ~pong Oct 20 20:53:37 -users fails at quoting Oct 20 20:53:39 Hi, crashanddie. Oct 20 20:53:54 Hey GA Oct 20 20:59:08 Hi, andre___. Oct 20 20:59:49 w00t w00t! Oct 20 21:22:13 I was trying fakeroot apt-get install hildon-desktop-dev in my diablo scratchbox, but I got "subprocess dpkg-split killed by signal (Segmentation fault)," Oct 20 21:22:24 I don't know what happened Oct 20 21:22:44 on ubuntu or? Oct 20 21:23:09 maemo's scratchbox Oct 20 21:31:02 hellwolf: well that obviously runs on something.. Oct 20 21:31:22 I use fedora, but is it relevant Oct 20 21:32:44 well there's always the VDSO problem Oct 20 21:33:13 brb Oct 20 21:34:06 $ cat /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled Oct 20 21:34:06 0 Oct 20 21:36:01 mkay Oct 20 21:36:06 well not that then :) Oct 20 21:41:11 Hello all... Oct 20 21:44:17 ... Help, please? I use Ubuntu, and have just bought a N810. I can't understand how on earth I can install a given app from the maemo platform (sorry for being so dumb). Can anyone tell me how to? Oct 20 21:47:45 Bilaw: open the application manager Oct 20 21:48:35 under the Settings menu Oct 20 21:50:10 OK, I have opened the app manager, lardman (hum, did I mention that I had no wifi connection around?).. Oct 20 21:50:35 Get a wifi connection Oct 20 21:51:06 (oh. No way to install say, via an SD card, or the USB connection?) Oct 20 21:51:19 lardman, change the name of maemo-barcode and push it for Fremantle. Oct 20 21:51:25 yes it's possible, but not ideal Oct 20 21:51:35 GeneralAntilles: change name to what? Oct 20 21:51:45 Something that's compliant with the trademark. Oct 20 21:51:51 GeneralAntilles: I'm going to do some work on it now actually Oct 20 21:51:52 barcode-for-maemo or something. Oct 20 21:52:01 lower case "m" then? ;) Oct 20 21:52:35 It's lowercase for the unix name Oct 20 21:52:39 The issue is the ordering Oct 20 21:52:49 Maemo x is a violation Oct 20 21:52:55 ok, do we have a wiki page about the trademark stuff? Oct 20 21:53:04 Maemo Mapper has an exemption because it was named before the trademark guidelines were put in place. Oct 20 21:53:07 * lardman apologies for his ignorance Oct 20 21:53:13 lardman, or just see the maemo.org trademark page. :P Oct 20 21:53:21 It's only been that way since, like, 2006. :P Oct 20 21:53:32 ~branding Oct 20 21:53:35 ~brand Oct 20 21:53:47 ~maemo-brad Oct 20 21:53:50 ~maemo-brand Oct 20 21:53:50 somebody said maemo-brand was https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand Oct 20 21:53:57 http://maemo.org/legal/terms_of_use/trademarks/ Oct 20 21:54:14 yeah, I ignore stuff like that usually, same with packaging ;) Oct 20 21:55:28 Anyway, I don't care much personally Oct 20 21:55:39 no, thanks for the pointer Oct 20 21:55:43 it's just that I really want to see it in the Fremantle Stars deal. ;) Oct 20 21:55:50 Get some direct support from Nokia. Oct 20 21:56:20 I'll have to dig out my GTK+ docs and get coding some GUI stuff :) Oct 20 21:56:30 yuck, GUIs ;) Oct 20 21:59:59 Get Nokia to do the GUI part. Oct 20 22:00:04 I would argue that they're not _that_ bad, but then you might want me to work on one. Oct 20 22:00:16 How are the UPC lookups handled? Oct 20 22:00:27 at the moment they're not Oct 20 22:00:48 Get Nokia on that, too. ;) Oct 20 22:01:01 1d stuff works fine for decoding, getting that useable would be good - where useable is lookups + saving stuff, etc. Oct 20 22:01:19 then the next step is to expand and add in derf's QR code Oct 20 22:01:49 get the datamatrix working sufficiently fast and stick that in, and for me to add some frontend logic to the pdf417 code and stick that in too Oct 20 22:02:17 1D is probably the most useful for most people, qr and datamatrix cool, but less often seen (unless you're in Japan of course ;)) Oct 20 22:02:36 neat, i got qemu armel -> x86 with distcc using codesourcery cross compilers working :) Oct 20 22:02:46 that's such a prettier solution than scratchbox Oct 20 22:03:22 hmm, http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Remarkable_community_projects#Proposals_for_Fremantle_Stars is waiting.......... Oct 20 22:03:33 or rather my browser is waiting for it Oct 20 22:03:51 Where are those goddamn servers? Oct 20 22:03:56 a wiki should have very quick response time, honestly Oct 20 22:04:02 I thought we were supposed to be done with this nonsense by now. <_< Oct 20 22:04:09 770's dsp has caused another reset I guess ;) Oct 20 22:04:31 * GeneralAntilles is gonna harass tekojo next time he's in. Oct 20 22:04:58 what are the recommendations for databases? Oct 20 22:05:07 which one to use for pretty basic stuff? Oct 20 22:05:14 The status reporting on the changeover has been disturbingly nonexistent or confusing. Oct 20 22:05:44 they're probably waiting for the midst of the next SSU Oct 20 22:05:44 :P Oct 20 22:05:59 Supposedly we got new servers, and seemingly at least something was moved to them, yet absolutely nothing is any faster. Oct 20 22:06:08 In fact, things seem to be SLOWER if that's actually possible. Oct 20 22:06:11 Is there any simple directory based music player with a gui Oct 20 22:06:19 I don't want any music database Oct 20 22:06:57 mplayer has a gui iirc Oct 20 22:07:18 doesn't show mp3s Oct 20 22:07:31 Canola does directories Oct 20 22:07:39 Just don't have it index anything. Oct 20 22:08:35 i'm sure maemo.org runs a 770.. with metalayer-crawler going rampant Oct 20 22:08:44 For example, I organize my music as author/album, and I constantly change my external sd card for different music, I just want a software don't do any extra index/database for me Oct 20 22:09:03 lardman: Maemo Mapper seems to use http://www.sqlite.org/ with some success. Oct 20 22:09:06 hellwolf, like I said, Canola. Oct 20 22:09:20 Ok, thanks, let me try Oct 20 22:09:35 derf: I've heard people saying that it's heavy in some way and that I should use something else Oct 20 22:09:46 Well, then ask them what else :). Oct 20 22:09:48 ah, perhaps sqlite is better Oct 20 22:10:03 Massive text file! Oct 20 22:10:03 I was probably thinking mysql Oct 20 22:10:09 Yeah, I wouldn't use that. Oct 20 22:10:16 GeneralAntilles: I'll put it on the list ;) Oct 20 22:10:40 The important point of sqlite, I think, is the "zero configuration" part. Oct 20 22:11:34 sounds good Oct 20 22:18:11 is fennec worth trying? Oct 20 22:23:04 Probably worth trying Oct 20 22:23:06 Not worth keeping Oct 20 22:23:30 right Oct 20 22:23:35 did Bilaw quit? Oct 20 22:24:03 I was going to suggest lots of devious strategies for routing over usb Oct 20 22:24:15 17:54:55 -!- Bilaw [n=jul@mon75-8-82-230-81-163.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] Oct 20 22:24:35 ah, my client must filter those, (or my eyes do) Oct 20 22:24:51 It _was_ half an hour ago. Oct 20 22:25:05 yeah well, I'm laggy :) Oct 20 22:25:36 how's the dsp code coming anyway? Oct 20 22:26:19 is the new n810 wimax version out now? Oct 20 22:26:40 * lardman sees sunshine for tomorrow Oct 20 22:26:59 derf: that was aimed at you btw Oct 20 22:27:18 I haven't had any more time to play with it. Oct 20 22:27:28 same here Oct 20 22:27:33 I did talk to the guy who did the original C55x port. Oct 20 22:27:55 Apparently Code Composer Studio has a much more recent version of c55x.h in it, which includes those missing compiler intrinsics. Oct 20 22:28:08 ah, I see Oct 20 22:28:17 Presumably its compiler also actually expands them into something. Oct 20 22:28:18 good excuse anyway :D Oct 20 22:28:46 The toolchain TI's website that you pointed to is from 2004. Oct 20 22:28:53 *toolchain on Oct 20 22:28:56 yep Oct 20 22:29:04 His header was from 2006. Oct 20 22:29:11 I've got a copy of CCS, I should install it and see what it's got in there Oct 20 22:29:18 Doesn't it require Windows? Oct 20 22:29:47 yes, I'm using Windows atm (which is why I'm aimlessly talking rather than coding) :) Oct 20 22:29:57 Ah, all is made clear. Oct 20 22:30:34 anyway, enough aimlessness, time to hit the sack Oct 20 22:30:41 night chaps Oct 20 22:39:52 ryoohki, yes. Oct 20 23:01:46 I installed PC Connectivity/USB Networking on my N810 Diablo. I click on Setup USB Networking in the control panel and I get and IP address on the USB port. I then connect the N810 to my Mac Leopard. But I can't ping that IP address from the Mac. I wonder what I'm doing wrong Oct 20 23:02:08 Why not use wifi ssh? Oct 20 23:05:14 hi all Oct 20 23:05:36 GeneralAntilles, it's so slow... Oct 20 23:05:49 Meh Oct 20 23:05:56 I get ~700-900KB/sec Oct 20 23:06:07 Only slow when you're shuffling giant movies around. Oct 20 23:06:07 GeneralAntilles, wifi ssh has a very low ping.... specially if wifi is power saving in some moments Oct 20 23:06:25 Make your tablet idle on XChat in a semi-active channel. Oct 20 23:06:29 No more wifi psm issues. Oct 20 23:06:46 :) Oct 20 23:06:59 I'll try... now I'm writing from my eeepc ;) Oct 20 23:07:14 http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM) Oct 20 23:09:56 wifi ssh? is there more info about that anywhere? Oct 20 23:10:20 Um? Oct 20 23:10:32 ssh Oct 20 23:10:59 doesn't mac os x have a builtin sftp browser in finder? Oct 20 23:11:05 It does. Oct 20 23:11:40 TokyoDan, I would recommend you try that for transferring files :) Oct 20 23:12:23 Thanks, I'll try that. But why isn't this mentioned in any of the Eclipse/Pydev/Pluthon docs? They only mention USB Networking to connect to the N810 when xferring/testing/running programs on the N810. Oct 20 23:13:21 I really don't know Oct 20 23:13:37 johnx. builtin sftp browser? How do I use access that? Oct 20 23:13:53 * johnx makes a raid on longterm memory Oct 20 23:14:03 Go -> Connect to server Oct 20 23:14:08 I mean I'll try ssh via my wifi. Oct 20 23:14:11 sftp:// Oct 20 23:14:22 errr...connect to server, sftp://user@192.168.1.5 Oct 20 23:14:26 I'm thinking about getting this bluetooth GPS... any objections? http://www.teletype.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=2558&Category_Code=100 Oct 20 23:14:30 where that IP is the wireless IP of your tablet Oct 20 23:14:47 anyways, usb networking is probably targetted at linux desktop users anyways, as usb networking is really simple over here Oct 20 23:15:05 ok but I don't want to JUST transfer file. I need the ability to run the files as with ssh. Oct 20 23:15:14 fie3, SiRF III kinda sucks Oct 20 23:15:24 Esepcially at that outrageous price. Oct 20 23:15:27 TokyoDan, you can have both open Oct 20 23:15:37 ssh in a terminal, and sftp for dragging files around Oct 20 23:15:47 GeneralAntilles, what does it suck at? Oct 20 23:15:59 Being a GPS chip compared to other, better chips Oct 20 23:16:00 http://www.amazon.com/i-Blue-737-Bluetooth-GPS-Receiver/dp/B000KH7MZ4 Oct 20 23:16:04 Like the MTK in that one. Oct 20 23:16:13 holy craps! $170? Oct 20 23:16:19 Great info you guys. Thanks. Sorry for asking such basic questions. Oct 20 23:16:27 anyone know the cheapest way to get the n810 wimax edition? Oct 20 23:16:30 no problem TokyoDan Oct 20 23:16:38 ryoohki, steal it? Oct 20 23:16:44 The one I linked to has 55 hours of battery life. Oct 20 23:16:48 id ssh is used in a terminal, where is sftp used? Oct 20 23:17:07 fie3, with SiRF III? Oct 20 23:17:08 TokyoDan, through finder like we said, or in a terminal if you want Oct 20 23:17:15 It's gotta have an absolutely massive battery for a GPS Oct 20 23:17:19 or that's idle time. Oct 20 23:17:27 Either way, that price is an insane ripoff. Oct 20 23:17:36 GeneralAntilles, well there's the regular power version which is 10 hours and the "ultra low power" Oct 20 23:17:37 is sftp in a finder menu? Oct 20 23:17:48 fie3, just get the i-blue 737 Oct 20 23:17:50 TokyoDan, sftp is a CLI app Oct 20 23:18:03 TokyoDan, scrollback. Oct 20 23:18:08 TokyoDan, or go -> connect to server -> sftp://tablet-ip Oct 20 23:18:08 GeneralAntilles, what is the battery life on it? Oct 20 23:18:10 Go menu in Finder Oct 20 23:18:16 OK Oct 20 23:18:19 fie3, 20-26 hours in-use Oct 20 23:18:21 It'll idle for a week. Oct 20 23:18:29 GeneralAntilles, ok that's cool. Oct 20 23:18:33 and it uses that Nokia battery that's in everything Oct 20 23:18:35 TokyoDan, sftp is a protocol that many clients can use. Oct 20 23:18:39 fie3: 55 hours of battery life?! Oct 20 23:18:40 So batteries are really easy to get ahold of. Oct 20 23:18:56 ryoohki, that's what it says. Oct 20 23:19:12 ryoohki, that's why it costs so much... I'm sure you could buy it for cheaper than that though. Oct 20 23:19:19 GeneralAntilles, 5V 2400mAH battery in that $170 thing Oct 20 23:19:35 That'd explain it. Oct 20 23:19:39 though I don't know any way you can get 5V out of li-ions... Oct 20 23:19:56 o-O Oct 20 23:20:03 why wouldn't you be able to get 5v out of liion? Oct 20 23:20:06 The i-blue uses a 800-1100mAH range battery. Oct 20 23:20:24 well,you can get 3.7V with one cell or 7.4V with two cells Oct 20 23:20:31 what do you do? cut a cell in half? Oct 20 23:21:01 Nah, we put johnx on a little generator bike to boost the voltage. :P Oct 20 23:21:17 * johnx rides away on the bike Oct 20 23:21:19 5v is kinda standard... that's what USB uses. Oct 20 23:21:34 Probably a proprietary sized. Oct 20 23:21:40 I dunno anyway Oct 20 23:21:46 I guess so...but it just strikes me as odd Oct 20 23:21:48 * GeneralAntilles spams wiki categories. Oct 20 23:21:51 GeneralAntilles, Thanks for the tip. I might pick that up. Oct 20 23:22:08 fie3, it's a really nice GPS unit. Oct 20 23:22:22 GeneralAntilles, What software do you use? Oct 20 23:22:25 for GPS Oct 20 23:22:28 Get the 747 if you want built-in tracks. Oct 20 23:22:30 Maemo Mapper Oct 20 23:22:43 ok Oct 20 23:23:04 Maemo Mapper is the only app I could get working Oct 20 23:23:13 it rules Oct 20 23:23:15 The maps one that came with it didn't work... I think I tried something else Oct 20 23:23:21 Maemo mapper seems kinda clunky. Oct 20 23:23:30 Getting the propper maps and all.. I dunno... Oct 20 23:23:46 Using google maps as the repo helped a lot though Oct 20 23:23:57 Anyway, heading out. Thx later. Oct 20 23:25:35 Alright, categories spammed. Oct 20 23:32:59 that worked, I ssh'ed to the N810 as root but I can only see a few directories: .; ..; .ash_history; .bashrc; .gnome2; .profile Oct 20 23:33:18 I can't see the usual UNIX file system Oct 20 23:33:56 got it. I was is "/root" Oct 20 23:34:20 now I can see everything. Thanks you guys. You cured my problems. Oct 20 23:35:26 now I can get on with Python/PyDec in Eclipse. Oct 20 23:37:59 TokyoDan, great! now make us some awesome apps :D Oct 20 23:40:06 I'll try. Got an old game that I want to port. Ran on Apple II. Sold 10 copies at a small Apple shop here in Tokyo back in 1984. Oct 20 23:49:58 Well, that's interesting... after doing "flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset", my n810 isn't stuck in a reboot loop any more. It boots and works. Oct 20 23:50:47 * ToyKeeper rsyncs / to another machine before the n810 has a chance to break again Oct 20 23:51:12 heh...that means whatever is failing isn't crucial Oct 20 23:51:39 Yeah. I'm not sure exactly which change broke it, but it wasn't anything important. Oct 20 23:52:34 I added a /home/user/.Xmodmap file, changed a matchbox config option, and turned off hildon-input-method. Oct 20 23:53:24 huh...turned off hildon-input-method? how? Oct 20 23:53:50 I'm using SCIM instead. Oct 20 23:54:02 As for how, insert 'exit 0' at the top of /etc/osso-af-init/keyboard.sh Oct 20 23:54:29 well, yeah. that's probably it Oct 20 23:55:39 nokia needs some kind of way to break reboot loops. some kind of "i rebooted automatically 3 times, I should try to make some best effort to start up so user can recover files then reflash." Oct 20 23:56:11 Really, a lot of things should probably be re-thought from a different perspective. Oct 20 23:56:33 It seems the design assumption is that it'd never fail, so no effort was spent on giving it a useful failure mode. Oct 20 23:56:57 heh...except that the "failure mode prevention" is what causes reboot loops Oct 20 23:57:21 However, I haven't yet met a NIT user who hasn't gotten into a reboot loop, so the "won't fail" assumption is apparently bunk. Oct 20 23:58:13 Every NIT has a physical Escape key... it should load console drivers and keyboard drivers early on, and allow Escape to drop into a text mode. Oct 20 23:58:26 Even if text input isn't available (770 and n800), at least it'd show what's happening. Oct 20 23:59:35 Yes, that sounds incredibly useful for the average joe. Oct 21 00:00:20 * mgedmin resists from making a plumber joke Oct 21 00:01:17 for the average user a "rescue mode" that consisted of two menu options: press + to dump the internal storage to sd card Oct 21 00:01:23 GeneralAntilles: Is seems no worse than the reboot loop, and at least offers the possibility of useful information. Oct 21 00:01:29 press - to disable lifeguard reset and reboot Oct 21 00:01:51 Stskeeps needs to get crackin' on his cool graphical boot menu. ;) Oct 21 00:02:03 Those options do sound more useful. Oct 21 00:02:44 ... detect boot loops, and on, say, the third boot, offer a function like johnx described. Oct 21 00:09:25 i agree Oct 21 00:09:33 a cryptic command line is better than no options at all Oct 21 00:10:08 i don't know who nokia thinks is buying their tablets, but if i got a command line instead of an infinite boot loop, i'd at least know where to start Oct 21 00:11:15 assume you're not the average customer if you're in IRC Oct 21 00:11:18 :) Oct 21 00:12:03 hmph. i'm not convinced normal people would own such a useful device Oct 21 00:12:03 Yeah, but I'd take something which is useful to 1% of the users over something which is useful to 0% Oct 21 00:12:44 i've never seen a n810/800/770 in the hands of someone who wasn't capable Oct 21 00:12:56 i mean, maybe i run in small circles.. but still Oct 21 00:13:36 visit itt for about 10 minutes Oct 21 00:13:45 touche Oct 21 00:14:17 and that's only the people who know enough and are brave enough to post in that forum Oct 21 00:14:26 * GeneralAntilles shudders Oct 21 00:15:23 I guess I'd just approach it a bit differently... keep things the same as a regular linux system except where there's a good reason not to. Oct 21 00:15:24 you're cynics Oct 21 00:15:40 ToyKeeper, it's a consumer device Oct 21 00:15:53 i'm a consumer Oct 21 00:16:01 Mousey, I'm not a cynic. I just know people who aren't geeks Oct 21 00:16:08 that's why they're on itt Oct 21 00:16:19 Mousey, Don't take this the wrong way: You're a geek :) Oct 21 00:16:27 that doesn't stop me from reading it Oct 21 00:16:34 (just posting) Oct 21 00:16:37 ^_^ Oct 21 00:16:57 besides.. maybe viewing it as (strictly) a consumer device is part of the problem Oct 21 00:17:10 Yes, it is a consumer device. And the consumer won't know whether their toy is running clean, standards-compliant code or custom spaghetti. Both can have the same visible UI. Oct 21 00:17:27 nokia could change -nothing-, change maemo around a little bit and sell it as a sub-sub-notebook an do just as well among prosumers Oct 21 00:17:49 But I've been finding all sorts of stuff in /etc/init.d and elsewhere which makes me cringe. Oct 21 00:17:49 it doesn't look like a notebook Oct 21 00:17:59 they would have to switch to a clamshell design Oct 21 00:18:10 or they could sell it as a sub-tablet-pc... Oct 21 00:18:15 mgedmin: geeks know a general computing device when they're presented with one Oct 21 00:18:30 it's a PC, it's got a drive, usb, a keyboard, display, network radios Oct 21 00:18:39 it's a freakin' pc in a phone chassis Oct 21 00:18:41 and they generally ignore marketing Oct 21 00:18:52 I'm thinking the majority of people who bought it aren't actually geeks Oct 21 00:18:55 I already describe my n810 as "a laptop replacement" Oct 21 00:19:06 not true.. look at the netbook. people pay very close attention to marketing, even geeks Oct 21 00:19:42 are you saying that geeks who want a sub-sub-notebook and would buy a n810 if labeled so currently don't buy it because of how it's marketed? Oct 21 00:19:44 Heh, I tell people my n810 is a smaller version of the eeePC. It's not too far from the truth. :) Oct 21 00:19:59 geeks pay a lot of attention to geek'coolness', some don't even care about anything else Oct 21 00:20:07 it would cost money to market the n810 from two different angles, the consumer and the geek angles.. but it would pay off. most people i know who are geeks who DISCOVER the n810 are floored by it.. if nokia had only gotten to them before i did Oct 21 00:20:32 glass: That's why Apple makes so much money. They sell tech fashion accessories. :) Oct 21 00:20:35 blah Oct 21 00:20:38 ToyKeeper: yes Oct 21 00:20:43 but what apple makes IS CRAP Oct 21 00:20:49 ...by geek standards Oct 21 00:21:03 c'mon, could you honestly compare the iPod touch to a n810?? Oct 21 00:21:05 hmm Oct 21 00:21:08 no stinkin' way Oct 21 00:21:10 Mousey: What Apple makes generally isn't tech, it's fashion. Oct 21 00:21:30 fashion with bit of tech, that tends to stay the same Oct 21 00:21:32 right, which is why nokia should consider their marketing angle incomplete if they're not marketing to tech Oct 21 00:21:39 Mousey, for a certain segment of people the touch is much more useful Oct 21 00:21:57 johnx: hahaha. that segment hasn't heard of the n810 over the hype, that's all Oct 21 00:21:58 Mousey: you should consider that nokia isn't actually marketing maemo devices at all, compared to marketing other stuff Oct 21 00:22:09 Mousey: it's a concept/trial device still. Oct 21 00:22:12 glass: i do. they're a celphone company Oct 21 00:22:26 Mousey, no, they don't have the knowledge/time to deal with reboot loops and installing from the command line Oct 21 00:22:27 glass: well you can still kill a trial device with bad/improper marketing Oct 21 00:22:51 Mousey: you can kill more by marketing a concept device too much Oct 21 00:23:06 anyone who completely discounts the touch/iphone is really missing something... Oct 21 00:23:06 i guess Oct 21 00:23:17 appstore? Oct 21 00:23:31 and the simplicity of that Oct 21 00:23:37 being limited brings simplicity Oct 21 00:23:50 that's fine, i'm not saying it should be marketed as a concept device (which it isnt, btw), but i'm saying the marketing should be DIRECTED towards the market which would get the most out of the device AS WELL as whomever else they thing they can reach with the thing Oct 21 00:24:07 glass, exactly. some people are better off with training wheels on their bikes :) Oct 21 00:24:16 s/some/most Oct 21 00:24:27 johnx: which gets us to why maemo isn't primetime ready.. all the os versions and that Oct 21 00:24:29 but that's not the point.. marketing the n810 to MOST people is the mistake Oct 21 00:24:39 johnx: not a good target device for commercial stuff Oct 21 00:25:17 anyways, it's moving along Oct 21 00:25:31 yeah, I always hope that the next API break will be the last Oct 21 00:25:37 D'oh. rsync segfaults Oct 21 00:25:40 what about QT? Oct 21 00:25:42 ^_^ Oct 21 00:25:52 not an API break :) Oct 21 00:25:59 Mousey: it's a yet another change Oct 21 00:26:19 QT can die for all I care. It's been holding back progress on linux PDAs for almost a decade. Oct 21 00:26:20 glass: but relevant to the nseries? Oct 21 00:26:27 adding this is fine, changing/removing things is where the problem lies Oct 21 00:26:32 ToyKeeper: i think there's something to your statement Oct 21 00:26:34 ToyKeeper, hmm? Oct 21 00:26:51 qtopia, anyway Oct 21 00:26:58 ah, the licensing Oct 21 00:27:04 yeah, I do agree with you there Oct 21 00:27:14 And the underlying non-standard tech. Oct 21 00:27:15 the great zaurus distro fork Oct 21 00:27:15 johnx: well, if the consumer can't tell even by looking what device he has what soft he could buy.. it's not good Oct 21 00:27:15 well it's gpl now Oct 21 00:27:18 so still moving Oct 21 00:27:37 Without qtopia, I suspect the zaurus would have been much more successful. Oct 21 00:27:50 blah. zaurus was before its time, imho Oct 21 00:27:58 i don't think lack of sw was zauruses problem Oct 21 00:27:58 ToyKeeper, or with an open qtopia Oct 21 00:28:07 glass, yeah, it really was Oct 21 00:28:11 the japanese zaurii would have been cooler in the US market Oct 21 00:28:22 Having to rewrite every app specially to run on it is a major problem. Oct 21 00:28:25 johnx: well it had enough cool soft, imho Oct 21 00:29:02 if the zaurus had had 800x480 and cost half as much, it would have been cooler Oct 21 00:29:04 it had cool software on the sharp "ROM" (distro) but that was bitrotting Oct 21 00:29:22 and it had some neat software on 3 other more modern distros Oct 21 00:29:39 With maemo, I can run any X11 program. It may not be optimal, but at least it works... and adding support seems to require only small changes. Oct 21 00:29:43 but moving software between distros was so difficult I can only think of a couple apps that were actually cross distro Oct 21 00:29:45 * Mousey is sad that palco hasn't gotten his tablet yet Oct 21 00:29:46 johnx: i think the early zaurus problem was lacking bt and btphones and 3g to pair with or wifi Oct 21 00:30:01 glass, only kinda. wifi cf cards worked fine Oct 21 00:30:13 speaking of, has a2dp gotten any easier yet? is it still 50% cpu to run it? Oct 21 00:30:17 johnx: it was pretty cool with 6310i and bt card when the first flatrate gprs's hit here Oct 21 00:30:39 johnx: my bro had some bt sd card or somesuch.. Oct 21 00:30:51 on his zaurus Oct 21 00:30:57 much better than ir'ing Oct 21 00:31:00 one day I'll finally have unlimited cell phone based inet Oct 21 00:31:13 one day i'll own my own wimax router Oct 21 00:31:18 i'm ircing through 3g now Oct 21 00:31:29 ping is plenty enough for irssi Oct 21 00:32:11 D'oh. I'd have unlimited 'net via my cell phone if I could remember its dialup password. Oct 21 00:32:26 johnx: anyways.. opera on zaurus was amazing by that days standards Oct 21 00:32:36 johnx: the 50% zoom Oct 21 00:32:42 it was, and no browser has really filled its shoes Oct 21 00:32:55 that was the problem of great software tied to a DOA platform Oct 21 00:33:09 * Mousey likes micro-b Oct 21 00:33:23 microb is good if you have 128MB of RAM Oct 21 00:33:28 johnx: isn't the PHS stuff unlimited? Oct 21 00:33:39 so the n900 will need GL-ES Oct 21 00:33:57 and an accelerometer (instead of a weak GPS chip) Oct 21 00:34:06 ds3, depends on your provider. most stuff here is WCDMA now as well Oct 21 00:34:09 the gps is pretty bad Oct 21 00:34:28 heh...my phone's AGPS is way better :) Oct 21 00:34:39 i got a signal with the n810 gps once Oct 21 00:35:05 the agps update was what really made n95's gps usable Oct 21 00:35:42 what is agps supposed to do anyway? approximate where to begin trying to aquire or something? Oct 21 00:36:39 the A is for Assisted Oct 21 00:36:52 there's a couple different ways this is accomplished (potentially) Oct 21 00:37:02 oh Oct 21 00:37:12 but yeah, basically tell it where it generally is so it knows what satellites to look for in this case Oct 21 00:37:14 well i'd trade it for an accellerometer Oct 21 00:37:18 or GL-ES video Oct 21 00:37:31 another 128 megs of ram Oct 21 00:37:40 * johnx bets against more RAM Oct 21 00:37:57 they have 16GB MicroSD now.. just make a ramdrive =) Oct 21 00:37:58 modularity would bring the cost up, even if it would be cool to pimp out your cyberdeck Oct 21 00:37:59 More RAM would be pretty useful... as would a faster CPU. Oct 21 00:38:07 wait, more swap Oct 21 00:38:09 I bet they keep the GPS too. It would be really usable if it could use the 3G connection for AGPS Oct 21 00:38:22 blah. no 3g!! Oct 21 00:38:23 dumping the gps would be weird Oct 21 00:38:34 i especially enjoy that it's not tied to any specific provider Oct 21 00:38:45 if i want interwebs i'll tether it Oct 21 00:38:48 they're saying it won't be with the n900 either Oct 21 00:38:49 or wifi Oct 21 00:39:08 the n900 is in the rumor mill stirring up already? Oct 21 00:39:16 Not rumor Oct 21 00:39:22 URL!! Oct 21 00:39:23 n900's been in rumor mill since n800 Oct 21 00:39:28 glass: heh Oct 21 00:39:33 Have you been hiding under a rock? Oct 21 00:39:34 the rumors are condensing though Oct 21 00:39:46 http://www.internettablettalk.com/2008/09/17/dr-ari-jaaksi-on-maemo-5/ Oct 21 00:40:22 GeneralAntilles: sort of, my n810's been dead since i moved in august.. i just shipped it off. and palco hasn't gotten it yet [accoriding to the check your status page], so i'm kinda worried. Oct 21 00:42:26 blah, maemo schmamemo, i wanna know the hardware specs on the upcoming tablets.. god what i wouldn't have input on -those- design teams Oct 21 00:42:33 +give Oct 21 00:42:36 OMAP3430 Oct 21 00:42:38 +to Oct 21 00:43:11 Either 128MB RAM/256MB NAND or 256MB RAM/no NAND Oct 21 00:43:37 wow, that's like super ARM SoC ariffic Oct 21 00:43:52 3G is also a definite Oct 21 00:43:57 rats Oct 21 00:44:35 it will be available unlocked (is the general consensus) Oct 21 00:44:38 OpenGLES!! w00000t!!!! Oct 21 00:44:54 hahaha, like american cellular nazis would ever go along with that Oct 21 00:45:02 Mousey, n95 Oct 21 00:45:03 Mousey: who says you'll have to buy from them Oct 21 00:45:12 Mousey: every nokia 3g phone basically is available unlocked Oct 21 00:45:24 it means i have to pick a provider! Oct 21 00:45:32 or not use the 3G! Oct 21 00:45:32 i can't buy my own 3g router Oct 21 00:45:44 ok, ok, now i just sound like a libertarian crazy, sorry Oct 21 00:45:47 Mousey: don't use 3g then Oct 21 00:45:49 they're not gonna drop wifi Oct 21 00:45:52 yay Oct 21 00:46:04 they'd be idiots to drop wifi Oct 21 00:46:05 Mousey: you buy your home internet from someone probably too Oct 21 00:46:24 glass: only the unfiltered feed with static IPs, and no protocols.. even run my own DNS and mail server Oct 21 00:46:45 3g is very very useful to use Oct 21 00:46:55 unless you never leave your house Oct 21 00:46:56 if you have the $$s and the 3 years to be locked in Oct 21 00:47:01 in case.. why buy a mobile device Oct 21 00:47:17 if you already have the device you can just pay by the month Oct 21 00:47:17 * GeneralAntilles already has 3g. Oct 21 00:47:22 the n810 is the single most useful laptop i've ever owned Oct 21 00:47:24 johnx: yeah.. Oct 21 00:47:40 see, that's the thing, if i already own the device, why do i have to keep paying? Oct 21 00:47:48 for the data service Oct 21 00:47:49 doh Oct 21 00:47:52 blah Oct 21 00:47:53 Mousey, what are you talking about? Oct 21 00:47:56 build my own internet Oct 21 00:48:02 ahaha Oct 21 00:48:02 * Mousey waves fist Oct 21 00:48:05 well have fun in your own internet Oct 21 00:48:11 just pull that DSL line out of the wall :) Oct 21 00:48:11 ^^ Oct 21 00:48:17 Then sell access to other suckers. :P Oct 21 00:48:20 WDS, FTW! Oct 21 00:48:20 i got my own at home. too bad the only warez on it is mine Oct 21 00:48:44 johnx, somebody needs to sell me about 400 miles of ethernet cable. Oct 21 00:48:44 ok ok, i get the bit about that i'm crazytalking Oct 21 00:48:44 Mousey, WDS to someone who is willing to pay for inet access? Oct 21 00:48:46 Then Il'l be set. Oct 21 00:49:03 GeneralAntilles, and a switch to place every ~100 meters? Oct 21 00:49:11 They'll be solar powered. Oct 21 00:49:19 fine, it'll have 3g, i just wish i could get a model without it so i don't have to pay for the engineering Oct 21 00:49:25 Put 'em in little solar hamster balls Oct 21 00:49:31 So they'll roll around Oct 21 00:49:33 Mousey, that's what I said :) Oct 21 00:49:37 Mousey: ..you'd pay extra for to have it engineered off? Oct 21 00:49:52 Mousey: like i said, modularity would be cool but it's expensive Oct 21 00:49:53 What about shot off? Oct 21 00:49:54 glass: i'll be paying extra for a feature i won't use, is what i'm asaying Oct 21 00:50:04 I'd pay extra to see Quim take it off with a 30-06 Oct 21 00:50:31 Mousey: besides, you don't even know what the device will be Oct 21 00:50:37 Mousey: you could buy a pandora Oct 21 00:50:42 meh Oct 21 00:50:46 that's what I did :) Oct 21 00:50:58 Mousey: which would be more or less n900.. without 3g Oct 21 00:51:24 it was really convenient timing to see the specs and approximate release date of the n900 :) Oct 21 00:51:36 blah ipod ripoff Oct 21 00:51:37 no linux Oct 21 00:51:41 no keyboard? Oct 21 00:51:43 Mousey: http://openpandora.org/ you could be pretty happy with it Oct 21 00:51:50 liqbase 0.1.5 is up on my site, its uploading to extras now, and should end up in extras itself tomorrow if the news is good Oct 21 00:52:05 extras-devel ^ Oct 21 00:52:09 Mousey: pandora has kb, game controls.. opengl es Oct 21 00:52:16 oh Oct 21 00:52:18 blah Oct 21 00:52:22 it's a DS! Oct 21 00:52:24 so read your nerd news Oct 21 00:52:47 nah, nokia is still 10 cuter Oct 21 00:53:10 that's true...the pandora looks like it was designed by some guys in a garage ... oh, wait Oct 21 00:53:11 you don't know that yet do you? or are there photos of n900 floating around? Oct 21 00:53:56 blah clamshell Oct 21 00:53:58 glass, yes, but we're not allowed to let you see them. :P Oct 21 00:54:07 Yeah, I'm not a fan of the clamshell. Oct 21 00:54:26 GeneralAntilles: i guess i could go check pro forum but then i'd have to shut up :\ Oct 21 00:54:27 glass: contemptuous much? Oct 21 00:54:32 I wish it was a convertible tablet, but I'll live Oct 21 00:54:56 Mousey: you just seem to have the first love phase of owning something cool Oct 21 00:55:01 anyways, I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts the n900 will look slicker than the pandora Oct 21 00:55:26 johnx, a brick looks slicker than the pandora. Oct 21 00:55:33 johnx: yeah but i'm not too trusting on nokia to put a decent pad on it :\ and buttons that would be nice for gaming Oct 21 00:55:37 yes, but a brick doesn't have an omap3 :) Oct 21 00:55:44 glass: maybe, but i'm retardedly picky. the n810 is literally the best handheld on the market.. until GL-ES was established as a standard. now i have high hopes for nokia's next nit Oct 21 00:55:46 but we'll see i guess Oct 21 00:55:48 Well . . . it _could_. :D Oct 21 00:55:51 the pandora isn't it Oct 21 00:56:10 glass, oh definitely not. I don't think anyone in nokia has ever even used a decent d-pad in their whole lives Oct 21 00:56:34 Somehow a bigger center button is better in their minds. Oct 21 00:56:40 johnx: or even had the bright idea of not wiring the pads so that they're 4way only.. Oct 21 00:56:44 will the n900 be the famous 2 steps forward 1 step back nokia usually does to us? Oct 21 00:57:02 Mousey, no telling until we see it. Oct 21 00:57:11 i'm patient AND open minded =) Oct 21 00:57:13 glass, I can live with that, but my n800 d-pad is already close to useless...meanwhile my nes d-pads still work great Oct 21 00:57:22 A lot of that seems to stem from the "make it appeal to idiots" plan they've got. Oct 21 00:57:25 yet i still find room in my heart for cynicism Oct 21 00:57:42 Which may very well kill the platform's appeal for me. Oct 21 00:57:58 which goes back to dual-marketing Oct 21 00:59:02 i donno. i'd buy another n810 in a heartbeat. now i'm excited to know the next generation isn't toooooo far off Oct 21 00:59:17 * lcuk is happy with current gen Oct 21 00:59:23 Mousey, summer 2009? not far off? Oct 21 00:59:26 * Mousey googles liqbase Oct 21 00:59:34 liqbase.net Oct 21 00:59:53 * GeneralAntilles looks. Oct 21 00:59:57 Still lame. . . . :P Oct 21 01:00:04 im really really sorry if i manage to fill up peoples computers Oct 21 01:00:18 its got the photo stuff in Oct 21 01:00:47 screenshots and camera photos are saved whenever you like Oct 21 01:01:29 there is only 1 instruction on the user interface for camera: "smile and press [fullscreen]" Oct 21 01:02:11 gnite anyway :) Oct 21 01:02:22 night Oct 21 01:02:23 'night lcuk. I'll take a look at it a bit later Oct 21 01:02:24 rats Oct 21 01:02:27 its not what i thot it was Oct 21 01:02:28 nite Oct 21 01:02:44 johnx: not in cosmic terms Oct 21 01:02:53 waht did u think it was Oct 21 01:03:10 i didn't know what it was, just what i hoped it was Oct 21 01:03:15 it actually looks pretty cool tho Oct 21 01:03:26 i'm looking for xrandr basically Oct 21 01:03:31 there's been talk about it Oct 21 01:03:39 but i haven't done enough homework yet Oct 21 01:03:45 http://sse2.net/rotate Oct 21 01:03:50 (mostly cuz tablet's off to the repair despot) Oct 21 01:03:55 ty Oct 21 01:04:00 :) Oct 21 01:04:22 Up to date: http://outpo.st/rotate Oct 21 01:04:32 ah. didn't know it moved Oct 21 01:04:52 Well, the .installs aren't quite working Oct 21 01:05:07 define "not quite" Oct 21 01:05:08 * Mousey votes on patch Oct 21 01:05:08 Application manager wont let us replace system packages with ones from another repo. Oct 21 01:05:15 ah Oct 21 01:05:52 So, the only way to make rotation "easy" is osv-c. Oct 21 01:06:05 Which somebody still needs to get to work on since jott dropped off the face of the planet. Oct 21 01:06:27 * GeneralAntilles moved the 360 into the other room to keep the noise down. Oct 21 01:07:06 Fan noise? Oct 21 01:07:12 and DVD drive noise. Oct 21 01:07:15 bbfn Oct 21 01:07:21 Now I can play in one room and it can make noise in the other. :D Oct 21 01:07:27 I just got a PS3, it's pretty quiet. It makes a lot of heat though. Oct 21 01:07:28 heh Oct 21 01:07:43 Doesn't he mean ttfn? Oct 21 01:07:50 Ubuntu 7.10 isn't overwhelming on the PS3... Oct 21 01:07:56 * shapr tries Yellow Dog... Oct 21 01:08:13 I had a different problem with my wii: It wants to flash this god-awful bright light on me while I'm trying to sleep Oct 21 01:08:25 Oh yeah, I hate blue LEDs in my bedroom. Oct 21 01:08:52 as long as they're either on or off I can cope...it's when they're flashing in a totally irregular way that it messes with me Oct 21 01:09:09 I don't like 'em on. Oct 21 01:09:35 blue leds.. *shiver* Oct 21 01:09:43 why do they stick em everywhere.. bright as hell too Oct 21 01:10:21 I used to have a super bright green LED on an old case Oct 21 01:10:24 Haha Oct 21 01:10:28 ALIEN INVASION! Oct 21 01:10:35 ei mitään Oct 21 01:10:35 it actually shined like a flashlight beam on the wall across the room from it Oct 21 01:10:36 ive removed several from equipment Oct 21 01:10:39 Seriously, the first time a message came in at night I almost shat myself. Oct 21 01:10:48 Thankfully, you can turn the flashing message notification off. Oct 21 01:10:54 haha Oct 21 01:10:56 yeah Oct 21 01:11:02 dug through the menus to find it Oct 21 01:11:03 yeah.. throbbing light.. alien attack! Oct 21 01:11:14 Since Nintendo's all the way over there in Lala-land, the system updates always come in at 3 in the morning. Oct 21 01:11:20 after the third time an ingame character spammed my real console Oct 21 01:11:26 jaska, you don't know the half of it. Oct 21 01:11:38 My computer case has a bright blue light behind a six inch fan.. I keep meaning to take my leatherman to that evil flickering light. Oct 21 01:11:50 Hehe Oct 21 01:12:06 I opened up my G5 to clean out the dust bunnies a few weeks back Oct 21 01:12:08 one of my power supplies has one.. need to remove it someday.. putting bluetack on them works too Oct 21 01:12:18 It's got a bright red LED on the mobo that kicks on when the baffling comes off Oct 21 01:12:31 terminator Oct 21 01:12:35 Shining on the radiator it looked like the metal was rusted Oct 21 01:12:38 I thought I had sprung a leak. Oct 21 01:13:02 next theyll start putting 500mW blue lasers as power indicators on things Oct 21 01:13:09 haha Oct 21 01:13:14 And they'll draw logos on your walls Oct 21 01:13:20 and retinas Oct 21 01:13:21 Ya know, I think that will really happen :-( Oct 21 01:13:36 The light pollution from my equipment is getting worse than the light pollution outside. Oct 21 01:13:42 Yeah, same here. Oct 21 01:13:47 ditto Oct 21 01:13:55 outside is still worse Oct 21 01:14:02 streetlight right outside the window :/ Oct 21 01:14:25 I have five laptops, two internet tablets, three monitors, a desktop, a digital music player, a phone... hmm Oct 21 01:14:34 And I'm not telling you my address... Oct 21 01:14:43 Yeah, they just replaced a big floodlight on the side of the building outside my window Oct 21 01:15:05 GeneralAntilles, when will you get a chance to shoot out the new one? Oct 21 01:15:11 bb guns \o/ Oct 21 01:15:44 johnx, I've seriously considered it. Oct 21 01:16:11 It illuminates a patch of soil behind a bunch of trees that nobody ever walks through. Oct 21 01:16:47 well duh...because if they walked through it everyone would see them cause of the light Oct 21 01:16:49 but think how much you can save on electricity costs! Oct 21 01:16:54 you don't need internal lights Oct 21 01:17:00 turn that light off and people will walk through there at all hours of the night! Oct 21 01:17:18 It's blissfully dark out there otherwise. Oct 21 01:17:39 darkness is where terrorists hide...and ninjas :S Oct 21 01:19:32 So it'll be my new shooting gallery? :P Oct 21 02:16:52 http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS3279545763.html Oct 21 02:17:27 thank. $*$&%ing. god. Oct 21 02:18:57 * GeneralAntilles waits patiently for the Maemo/S60 software to come out. Oct 21 02:19:30 and hopefully they'll keep Qt more mainline compatible than what they did to gtk Oct 21 02:23:31 Hehe, well, as Nokia _is_ mainline Qt now. . . . Oct 21 02:24:03 as long as it's the same on desktop linux and nit/s60 it's fine by me Oct 21 02:24:19 I just hope they don't screw around enough to make people fork it... Oct 21 02:27:51 * GeneralAntilles wonders who the first person will be to get acclamations and honors for starting work on osv-c. . . . Oct 21 02:27:58 ^ from me. Oct 21 02:59:45 night **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 21 02:59:57 2008