**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 21 02:59:57 2008 Oct 21 02:59:57 'night lopz Oct 21 03:34:30 yah know... if they want us to use garage.maemo.org for hosting and svn they *really* should make sure it actually works Oct 21 03:34:37 * moontiger mumbles and curses Oct 21 03:35:55 Well, it works. Oct 21 03:35:59 It just works slowly. Oct 21 03:37:29 yah ... and it times out and fails to resolve Oct 21 03:37:33 * moontiger sighs Oct 21 03:38:06 I'm gonna harass tekojo about the server upgrades whenever I see him next. Oct 21 03:38:50 turning off js makes such a huge performance difference O_o Oct 21 03:39:20 somehow I didn't really understand how much of an effect it had on average pages Oct 21 03:39:41 anyways the phonehome thingy is working nicely Oct 21 03:39:41 :) Oct 21 03:40:05 MicroB, johnx? Oct 21 03:40:32 midori actually Oct 21 03:40:40 midori on a zaurus Oct 21 03:41:13 johnx: I keep forgetting you still actively use a zaurus Oct 21 03:41:24 * summatusmentis needs to get rid of his Oct 21 03:41:25 actively use might be a little strong Oct 21 03:41:29 I actively tinker Oct 21 03:41:38 well, for me it was the same thing :) Oct 21 03:41:49 wow the n810 camera *really* gets noisy in low light Oct 21 03:41:58 moontiger: yes it does Oct 21 03:42:07 yeah, i actively used it for a while...but web is a killer app now, so more tinkering and less using :/ Oct 21 03:42:47 did u guys check out the "phonehome" project ? Oct 21 03:43:11 not yet, but I don't plan on having my n800 stolen... Oct 21 03:43:29 Hehe Oct 21 03:43:47 hehe well it works and its kinda cool ... lots more to do on it ... but if it was stolen u would have nice big mugshots of the thief Oct 21 03:43:49 thats funny Oct 21 03:44:09 nice big incredibly noisy mugshots Oct 21 03:44:10 they'd have to figure out how to get the camera out first :) Oct 21 03:44:25 johnx, ?? Oct 21 03:44:35 n800 = pop-out camera Oct 21 03:44:41 ahhhhhhhhh really? Oct 21 03:44:45 i have an n810 Oct 21 03:44:46 yup Oct 21 03:44:58 and mine is probably sealed shut with sand and pocket lint Oct 21 03:45:02 so it logs gps data and images Oct 21 03:45:14 so not much use on an n800 really :| Oct 21 03:45:38 im going to add google maps or osm plotting via the gps data too Oct 21 03:46:03 it would be fun for surveiling yourself actually :) Oct 21 03:46:37 it is kinda cool ... and it makes a good route tracker (with gps) Oct 21 03:47:08 im just doing the web stuff but i think i will make the config manageable via the website and send the config updates down to the device when it needs to Oct 21 03:47:26 when I had a macbook for work I had a little script that actually took a webcam pic evertime it opened. it was actually fun seeing what I looked like in the morning before I was really awake Oct 21 03:47:45 hehe i get that when i brush my teeth Oct 21 03:48:01 if only the damn camera was better Oct 21 03:48:31 you brush your teeth with the n810? Oct 21 03:49:34 lol Oct 21 03:50:13 yes ... it uses usb host mode and controls my usb toothbrush Oct 21 03:50:15 :) Oct 21 03:50:42 actually, I kinda like the idea of a roomba for teeth :D Oct 21 03:50:56 it could just crawl in your mouth at random times in the night Oct 21 03:51:11 hahaha ... a small robot that crawls around in ur mouth while u sleep Oct 21 03:51:20 well, you'd start out sleeping... Oct 21 03:51:25 right Oct 21 03:51:31 well i used to have pet rats Oct 21 03:51:39 and one of them had a thing for licking teeth Oct 21 03:51:45 O_o Oct 21 03:51:56 that's ... quite unfortunate Oct 21 03:52:05 so some nights i would wake up and find it with my lower lip pulled back in its lil claws and it would be licking my teeth Oct 21 03:52:21 did you not feed it enough? Oct 21 03:52:23 not the best way to wake up really Oct 21 03:52:33 oh yah it had food stashed all over Oct 21 03:52:41 it just liked it Oct 21 03:52:50 i got used to it and it didnt bother me too much Oct 21 03:53:01 That's creepy as hell. Oct 21 03:53:04 but the first night a gf came to stay it was... unfortunate Oct 21 03:53:30 i can only imagine Oct 21 03:53:36 no ... no you cant Oct 21 03:53:39 :| Oct 21 03:53:54 oh Oct 21 03:54:17 still i figured it was a good test to see if the gf was too germ-phobic or not Oct 21 03:54:25 she passed ... but only just Oct 21 03:56:47 I can only imagine how a rat figures out it likes licking teeth. Oct 21 03:57:03 yah i wondered about that too Oct 21 03:57:39 Yikes, I'd be afraid that I would accidentally bite its head off at night. Oct 21 03:57:54 no they are pretty smart Oct 21 03:57:56 Also, why does your rat have access to your face at odd hours? Oct 21 03:58:04 Or roll over on the poor thing and have it bite your lip off. Oct 21 03:58:07 Haha Oct 21 03:58:11 they live free range in my apt Oct 21 03:58:21 live = lived Oct 21 03:58:23 I've got some mice that live free range in my walls. Oct 21 03:58:26 Uninvited. Oct 21 03:58:26 Litter trained? Oct 21 03:58:28 i dont have rats anymore Oct 21 03:58:32 very clean Oct 21 03:58:40 never made a mess anywhere but their lil house Oct 21 03:58:51 That's cool. Oct 21 03:58:55 these were so cute ... paris and texas Oct 21 04:00:20 and they would hunt the roaches at night if there were any Oct 21 04:07:32 i was thinking (with phonehome) to allow users to mark certain pictures as public so others could see if they wanted Oct 21 04:36:30 Lot of SDK installs seem to be failing. Oct 21 04:40:35 <`0660> tell me about it Oct 21 04:41:51 * GAN800 makes a note to harass marcell, too. Oct 21 04:42:46 there is still an up to date vm debian/sdk image? Oct 21 04:45:55 <`0660> having to use vmware to avoid cumbersome installation doesn't lower the threshold to start that much Oct 21 04:54:46 os tjere amupme jere Oct 21 04:55:06 is there anyone here Oct 21 04:56:09 I'm here Oct 21 04:56:11 do I count? Oct 21 04:56:18 I'm here, but I'm not of any use Oct 21 04:56:26 Sargun: stop following me :) Oct 21 04:56:37 is this the chatroom for linux applications Oct 21 04:57:07 it's the channel for talking about nokia internet tablets and their software Oct 21 04:57:22 summatusmentis, o.O? Oct 21 04:57:22 huh Oct 21 04:57:59 Sargun: #openafs :-P Oct 21 04:58:09 then why was dialcentral on the website Oct 21 04:58:13 Oh... Oct 21 04:58:14 I run into too many of the same people in the same channels Oct 21 04:58:19 heh... Oct 21 04:58:52 you were asking for help with setting up a cell a few days ago Oct 21 04:59:00 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23357 Oct 21 04:59:15 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/d/dialcentral/ Oct 21 04:59:23 michael__, what does that have to do with anything? Oct 21 04:59:30 summatusmentis, its an issue with our kernel. Oct 21 04:59:43 i saw those links. trying to find the latest software Oct 21 05:00:15 Sargun: :-/ Oct 21 05:00:28 i'm confused now Oct 21 05:00:36 i just saw this as a link to maemo Oct 21 05:00:41 and the website is maemo Oct 21 05:01:06 and i only saw the 0.8.1 on the one page but the other page list 0.8.2 but no download Oct 21 05:01:20 is there someone who can help me Oct 21 05:02:12 michael__, just grab the one from maemo.org . The version in extras-devel is for testing. It's not stable yet Oct 21 05:02:22 When it is considered stable it will be put in extras Oct 21 05:02:28 ~extras Oct 21 05:02:28 methinks extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Oct 21 05:03:15 that's what i thought but then it lists svs and i don't know where to go for that Oct 21 05:03:55 svs? Oct 21 05:04:36 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23357&page=3 Oct 21 05:04:42 look at the very bottom post Oct 21 05:05:04 svn? Oct 21 05:05:15 (I think) svn is fully up to date now. I just pulled the two line change from extras-devel for thumbscrolling. I also fixed an issue with the contacts view. Oct 21 05:05:24 right, that's not released yet Oct 21 05:05:26 that's a copy and paste from that page Oct 21 05:05:40 but if svn is updated now where do you go to get it Oct 21 05:05:50 you don't unless you want to compile it yourself Oct 21 05:05:55 it's not released yet Oct 21 05:06:01 i want to try it but where do i get it Oct 21 05:06:13 he doesn't list where to get it Oct 21 05:06:22 probably on his garage page? Oct 21 05:06:32 which is where? Oct 21 05:06:40 maybe ask google? Oct 21 05:07:22 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/gc-dialer/ Oct 21 05:07:23 honestly I don't know where it is. your guess is as good as mine Oct 21 05:07:58 michael__, do you have scratchbox installed to compile it? Oct 21 05:08:07 ok. i thought someone would know here Oct 21 05:08:19 michael__, GeneralAntilles just gave you a link Oct 21 05:08:34 i went to that page and it's a real old version 0.5 Oct 21 05:08:45 look at the scm repository link at the bottom Oct 21 05:08:54 michael__, do you know how to compile programs? Oct 21 05:09:07 oh. i saw on the bottom Oct 21 05:09:32 clicked and page not found Oct 21 05:09:48 uhm, it works here Oct 21 05:10:05 "scm repository" at the bottom of the page Oct 21 05:10:40 isn't there a way to automatically compile in linux Oct 21 05:11:00 not really, no Oct 21 05:11:04 and i don't know anything about the .py files Oct 21 05:11:08 definitely not in this case Oct 21 05:11:22 right, that's my point. Just wait until someone compiles 0.8.2 and releases it Oct 21 05:12:48 ok i'll wait. Oct 21 05:13:27 if you want to learn how to compile things for maemo, install the SDK (software development kit) Oct 21 05:13:29 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.1/INSTALL.txt Oct 21 05:13:51 ~sdk Oct 21 05:13:52 Software Development Kit Oct 21 05:14:11 not helpful infobot :P Oct 21 05:14:27 'night all Oct 21 05:14:34 'night summatusmentis Oct 21 05:14:45 ~skd-41 is http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.1/INSTALL.txt Oct 21 05:14:46 okay, GAN800 Oct 21 05:14:59 * GAN800 is so glad we don't have a java client. Oct 21 05:15:08 oh, fyi johnx. I may have mentioned this before, if you need a zaurus 3200, I've got one for sale :-P Oct 21 05:15:08 so many ~'s to remember O_o Oct 21 05:15:32 summatusmentis, I'll think about it, but don't save it for me Oct 21 05:15:34 Bind some more so you have bigger targets to hit. ;) Oct 21 05:15:59 johnx: kk, bed for real this time :) Oct 21 05:16:07 * GAN800 still misses _Monkey every so often. Oct 21 05:16:57 the SDK install.txt always scares people off ... Oct 21 06:07:22 morning Oct 21 06:07:37 hello Oct 21 06:39:32 johnx: made a neat trick yesterday.. debian armel running in qemu, and distccing to a x86 with a arm cross compiler chain Oct 21 06:40:01 interesting, was it hard to get distcc setup? Oct 21 06:41:23 well took some tinkering, but it ended up being ln -s 'ing all arm-none-linux-gnueabi-X to some_path/X and remembering ln'ing cc to gcc.. and then simply PATH=/some_path:$PATH distccd --daemon -a 0.0.0.0/09 Oct 21 06:41:28 -9 Oct 21 06:41:39 it requires same gcc version on both though Oct 21 06:41:48 as in, 4.3.2 and 4.3.2 Oct 21 06:42:04 well that's pretty awesome Oct 21 06:42:18 was it hard to get dpkg-buildpackage to pickup distcc? Oct 21 06:42:32 CC=distcc dpkg-buildpackage Oct 21 06:42:39 nice Oct 21 06:43:13 it's too bad my old 5500 zaurus can't run eabi binaries, otherwise I'd run builds on that distcc'ed to my desktop :/ Oct 21 06:43:24 for "joe" package, dpkg-buildpackage was 4m29s with distcc, 9m21s without Oct 21 06:43:53 for something so small a big part of that was probably configure and linking and packaging as opposed to CC time Oct 21 06:44:43 yeah Oct 21 06:44:49 johnx: still finding use for collie? :) Oct 21 06:44:56 configure+linking was done in emu, compiling on distcc Oct 21 06:44:59 solmumaha, not so much lately :/ Oct 21 06:45:17 I guess this question has been asked time and time again (but I can't find an answer on Google, so...): is there a way to use TKIP on a N800 (OS2008)? Oct 21 06:45:35 gomiam, as in wpa-psk? Oct 21 06:46:12 gomiam: i think that's supported honestly Oct 21 06:47:12 johnx: no, it's an authenticated network Oct 21 06:47:42 Stskeeps: I know it seems to be supported on WPA2 Oct 21 06:47:54 but this network is supposed to be just WPA Oct 21 06:49:08 on Windows a 802.1x client called SecureW2 is installed, and on Linux it is configured as a WPA-EAP network with CCMP TKIP Oct 21 06:49:33 oh, and the EAP uses TTLS. Oct 21 06:50:00 I have found a couple of tutorials on setting up "eduroam" (the interuniversity wifi network) Oct 21 06:50:26 oh, that's a EAP network, that's a different thing than traditional WPA :P Oct 21 06:50:34 and each one recommends different procedures... which don't work for me Oct 21 06:50:37 Stskeeps: :P:P Oct 21 06:50:46 is it WPA2 then? Oct 21 06:51:22 I'm reading a working Linux configuration file and it has "proto=WPA" instead of "proto=RSN", which would be used on WPA2 Oct 21 06:51:24 when most home and small-office users talk about wpa and wpa2 they're talking about wpa-psk and wpa2-psk Oct 21 06:51:50 gomiam: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/index.php/Eduroam , scroll down to "n810 tablet" Oct 21 06:51:50 and I believe tkip is used as the encryption method behind wpa-psk (not positive) Oct 21 06:51:52 johnx: ok, ok. I didn't make that clear enough =:-) Oct 21 06:52:08 Stskeeps: tried that already, failed Oct 21 06:52:12 and we also came into the conversation with our own assumptions :) Oct 21 06:52:21 gomiam: yeah, okay, look into what cert your uni has Oct 21 06:52:55 mmm... I'll try that angle. Calling network people... XD Oct 21 06:53:04 or look in your securew2 thing Oct 21 06:53:04 unavailable Oct 21 06:53:23 Stskeeps: SecureW2 just provides CCMP/TKIP for Windows. Oct 21 06:53:41 mmk Oct 21 06:54:00 and you followed the http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/index.php/Eduroam#Setting_up_Eduroam steps too? Oct 21 06:54:03 anyway, I guess I'll have to hunt down another operator that supposedly was able to connect his N770 to the network Oct 21 06:54:23 Stskeeps: yup, I even tried to do it the "wrong" way just in case, to no avail. Oct 21 06:54:26 mk Oct 21 06:55:01 dunno - we (thank god) have multiple edu networks, eduroam, wifi portal, vpn.. Oct 21 06:55:40 oh, I have an open university wifi too (well, through a portal, but you get my meaning). But it is too restricted Oct 21 06:55:58 I can't chat from it, and I'm too lazy to set a VPN over ssh XD Oct 21 06:56:42 gomian: screen in another machine Oct 21 06:56:59 gomiam: ssh -D is a good tool Oct 21 06:56:59 :P Oct 21 06:58:09 mmm... it might work. But I would rather be able to use eduroam. Oct 21 06:58:20 never mind, I'll keep trying later XD Oct 21 06:59:29 hi all , can i use object c in scratchbox? Oct 21 06:59:50 i can't install the gunstep Oct 21 07:01:16 jin, I know the debian guys got gobjc running on armel, and they appear to have a gnustep build but it was somewhat flakey on armel last time I tried it Oct 21 07:04:56 hi johnx , do you means that you can install gnustep in scratchbox but it's unstable? Oct 21 07:05:13 I installed it on an n800 running debian Oct 21 07:05:21 I haven't tried to install it in scratchbox Oct 21 07:06:18 the big thing is I don't know if anyone has compiled a cross-compiling version of gobjc Oct 21 07:07:55 hi all Oct 21 07:08:32 can anyone here compile me something for the maemo enviroment? Oct 21 07:08:51 I need noip2.c to be build for maemo Oct 21 07:09:18 which version? Oct 21 07:09:18 CityLights: just download a maemo development virtual machine Oct 21 07:09:23 chinook, diablo, or what? Oct 21 07:09:27 its a dns client and if free at http://www.no-ip.com/support/guides/update_clients/setting_up_linux_update_client.html Oct 21 07:09:38 diablo pls Oct 21 07:10:05 as this is a single .c file Oct 21 07:10:10 CityLights: http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ Oct 21 07:10:18 even the makeFile is simple Oct 21 07:10:56 this allow me to get a dns name to alows point to my nokia Oct 21 07:11:07 that could be useful, when your screen breaks... Oct 21 07:11:10 unless you're behind NAT Oct 21 07:11:13 Stskeeps, ok, tried out illume: looks nice except the launcher idles at ~90% CPU usage Oct 21 07:11:43 CityLights: i can give it a try. hold on Oct 21 07:11:50 thanks Oct 21 07:13:17 CityLights: here you are Oct 21 07:13:23 wii Oct 21 07:14:40 or, if dcc send doesn't work for you, http://mg.pov.lt/noip2-maemo-diablo Oct 21 07:15:00 mgedmin: thanks Oct 21 07:15:30 got to go Oct 21 07:17:59 heuu, slight problem with my httpd server; hold on Oct 21 07:21:22 johnx: always a good power saver.. Oct 21 07:21:52 johnx: and i got debian going on my works beagleboard now :) Oct 21 07:22:02 good deal Oct 21 07:22:52 and i might have navigated myself into a position where i get wage if i do changes to deblet (and is able to release it) needed for performance/power saving etc for my work platforms/prototyping :) Oct 21 07:23:00 so there might appear some (C) my uni some places Oct 21 07:23:19 so that was a decent day yesterday Oct 21 07:23:19 :P Oct 21 07:23:26 that's great! Oct 21 07:23:48 it'll still be open source, right? or will your Uni make it shareware? Oct 21 07:23:54 open source Oct 21 07:24:07 they have no interest in it beyond having a platform to build prototypes upon Oct 21 07:24:49 ok, off to work Oct 21 07:24:54 alright Oct 21 07:24:59 congratulations :) Oct 21 07:44:05 GeneralAntilles, http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9879/screenshot08sj2.png :p Oct 21 07:44:07 good morning all Oct 21 07:44:38 hey aquatix Oct 21 07:45:52 qwerty <-- evil Oct 21 07:46:18 destroying British myths in front of our eyes Oct 21 07:46:53 lol, nokia put the message there, i just used my creative skills on it :p Oct 21 07:46:59 qwerty12_N800, that's pretty awesome Oct 21 07:47:18 hehe Oct 21 07:47:33 qwerty12_N800: That is one messed up desktop ;) Oct 21 07:47:45 qwerty12_N800: lol Oct 21 07:47:58 qwerty: Does making screen black save energy though? =) Oct 21 07:48:15 X-Fade, it's usually cleaner but i wanted to get the rss reader in :p Oct 21 07:48:26 RST38h, easier on my eyes :p Oct 21 07:48:36 ah 8) Oct 21 07:49:47 johnx, yeah :). that's the nice thing about nokia using locales even with closed source stuff Oct 21 08:00:53 qwerty12_N800, would you do me a favour please :$ could you try to break liqbase for me (0.1.5) if you cant im gonna promote it later Oct 21 08:01:20 lcuk, lol, i can try Oct 21 08:01:34 and you can find the new easter egg :) Oct 21 08:02:59 yum... easter egg's :) Oct 21 08:03:10 !coffee Oct 21 08:03:53 povbot's boring compared to infobot Oct 21 08:06:13 tekojo, what's the word on the servers? Oct 21 08:06:18 Things seem slower than ever lately. Oct 21 08:12:55 lcuk, can i ask that you replace "maemo-select-menu-location liqbase.desktop" in the postinst with: http://slexy.org/view/s2qEhC4Xie . that makes it so that when you upgrade, it doesn't ask you where to put it in the menu. if this is a 1st time install, the menu location dialog will show up like normal Oct 21 08:13:56 qwerty12, mind running a patch campaign with that? ;) Oct 21 08:16:21 yeah, that'd be a killer bug report on bugzilla.. :> Oct 21 08:16:36 Hmm, I don't have the time to find packages that do that :p Oct 21 08:17:35 I know yerga asked on iTT for the canola guys to do that but got no response. Oct 21 08:17:49 qwerty12, put together a generic patch and I'll slap on an email template we can fire off to maintainers as we note them? Oct 21 08:20:10 Don't know if you can do generic patches (thinking about diff) but the general rule is to replace any "maemo-select-menu-location whatever.desktop" with the stuff on that slexy link Oct 21 08:20:32 ^ in the postinst Oct 21 08:21:59 * GAN800 ponders a 'Stock maintainer harasment emails' wiki page. Oct 21 08:25:48 * johnx <3 aptitude Oct 21 08:26:33 Morning, all Oct 21 08:26:43 johnx, +1. shame cwidgets goes all weird in scratchbox/ Oct 21 08:34:45 hi Oct 21 08:45:27 anyone have any ideas on how to reduce the latency when using a bluetooth keyboard? Oct 21 08:46:15 turn off word prediction Oct 21 08:49:06 hi Oct 21 08:59:58 moo, johnx, jaffa Oct 21 09:00:12 rkabir: There is a bug filed for that. Go and confirm it Oct 21 09:00:39 johnx: word prediction does slow things a bit but keyboards are dead slow even if you turn it off. usb keyboards too Oct 21 09:00:45 RST38h: thanks, i'll take a look Oct 21 09:00:52 yeah, i don't see that problem on my nokia phone Oct 21 09:00:55 just on the tablet Oct 21 09:01:15 Go raise hell: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3359 Oct 21 09:01:54 Tell them your kbd model, etc - so that they do not blame it on a particular keyboard make Oct 21 09:03:52 ooh Oct 21 09:04:13 * aquatix adds his issue with his iGo bt keyboard Oct 21 09:05:20 Don't be shy, complain Oct 21 09:05:49 Because right now it looks like this bug is ignored (and it really prevents keyboard usage, at least for me) Oct 21 09:07:16 hm, except that i have more issues with chars being laggy and repeated Oct 21 09:07:39 are you losing chars as well? Oct 21 09:08:18 how about this one: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3358 ? Oct 21 09:11:25 there Oct 21 09:11:34 posted my own piece Oct 21 09:12:52 qwerty12_N800, ok will do, thanks Oct 21 09:13:16 cool, thanks Oct 21 09:13:31 sorry for delayed reactions.. Oct 21 09:13:56 bet u never found the new egg though Oct 21 09:14:35 nope :p Oct 21 09:15:08 * qwerty12_N800 will continue to search :p Oct 21 09:15:27 well its the most requested thing in liqbase to date :P Oct 21 09:16:14 its clunky but it works, anyway im off for a bit Oct 21 09:16:28 * qwerty12_N800 better read the thread because i have no idea what it is :p Oct 21 09:26:04 anyone in here use twitter and has been able to get teh os2008 rss reader to accept the rss feed from your twitter subscriptions? Oct 21 09:26:32 i can add individual channels one at a time but thats a major pain Oct 21 09:47:25 Ah, the leave-charger-plugged-in wars on iTT! Oct 21 09:47:38 * RST38h loves those Oct 21 09:54:06 a finnish magazine published an article today about fennec Oct 21 09:54:25 has it improved from the first beta? Oct 21 09:54:34 (or alpha, whatever was it) Oct 21 09:55:25 macoute: It was pre-alpha before, alpha now ;) Oct 21 09:56:22 It works so you can get the idea, but performance is still something that needs to be worked on. (I'm very kind there ;) Oct 21 09:57:17 do standard expansions work in fennec? Oct 21 09:57:28 that would be only thing that would appeal to me - working gears on tablet Oct 21 09:57:47 yacoob: They have been turned off for now. Oct 21 09:57:59 yacoob: But I think they plan to enable them later. Oct 21 09:59:44 oh well. And the installation footprint was, what, 25M? Oct 21 10:11:12 X-Fade: but have they fixed the horrible UI? :) Oct 21 10:13:35 i vote for bundyo's tear :P Oct 21 10:13:52 or what his nick was again Oct 21 10:14:07 bundyo like you said :p Oct 21 10:15:06 well, it has the advantage of being able to let you use the hildon keyboard :p Oct 21 10:17:33 Stskeeps, btw, in debian, is it recommmended or suggested packages that are now going to be installed by default due to apt changes? Oct 21 10:17:39 qwerty12_N800: recommended Oct 21 10:17:44 afaik Oct 21 10:17:46 i hate that really Oct 21 10:17:48 ok, thanks Oct 21 10:17:54 yep, same here :/ Oct 21 10:20:18 qwerty12_N800: i found out i could distcc from a tablet / qemu armel to a x86 codesourcery crosscompiler Oct 21 10:20:25 qwerty12_N800: and it would actually work Oct 21 10:20:42 qwerty12_N800: speeds up builds by 50-60% without scratchbox insanity Oct 21 10:20:45 hah, wicked Oct 21 10:21:41 and this was just on a small package (joe) Oct 21 10:22:55 it just requires gccs are same version obviously Oct 21 10:22:59 is this how you plan to compile optimised deblet packages? Oct 21 10:23:34 two beagleboards and a distcc, yeah Oct 21 10:23:53 * qwerty12_N800 answers that one with a thunk as he realises the obvious answer is yes Oct 21 10:23:55 Stskeeps, now THAT sounds like an improvement, can you get distcc building packages for you as well/ Oct 21 10:23:58 and making brews? Oct 21 10:24:05 heh, nice Oct 21 10:24:25 lcuk: CC=distcc dpkg-buildpackage was what i tested Oct 21 10:24:35 (on debian, not maemo.) Oct 21 10:24:44 poo! Oct 21 10:24:56 since dpkg-buildpackage is awkward on maemo Oct 21 10:25:04 need to try in maemo lol Oct 21 10:25:29 if you get gcc and same codesourcery toolchain matching gcc version Oct 21 10:25:35 then you can cc using distcc probably Oct 21 10:25:37 yeah i know that one, its "simpler" to commit svn move into vmware grab and package and reup ;) Oct 21 10:26:06 so you can code on tablet, test, and instead of gcc run distcc Oct 21 10:26:07 :P Oct 21 10:26:14 * qwerty12_N800 would say using linux w/out the vm would be simpler :p Oct 21 10:26:38 well im starting to want to have liqbase available on multiple sources at the same time Oct 21 10:27:05 right, got a meeting coming up Oct 21 10:27:06 bbl Oct 21 10:27:07 * lcuk is outgrowing his little tablet egg Oct 21 10:27:12 cya later Oct 21 10:38:22 is anyone considering this eee touchscreen desktop model? i think it would made the perfect compliment to the tablet Oct 21 10:40:37 morning Oct 21 10:43:44 hey lardman Oct 21 10:43:50 hi lcuk Oct 21 10:45:36 lardman, what do you think of these touchy desktops Oct 21 10:45:48 (eee desktop mainly) Oct 21 10:45:58 never used one Oct 21 10:46:21 heh, thats cos they arent out yet :P but basically its an all in one monitor+comp Oct 21 10:46:32 url? Oct 21 10:46:45 lcuk: the Eee box? Oct 21 10:46:49 looks very nice Oct 21 10:46:52 looks quite sweet actually, http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/10/15/touchscree_eee_advance_orders/ Oct 21 10:47:03 oh wow Oct 21 10:47:45 that's quite interesting too Oct 21 10:47:56 looks like QT/E Oct 21 10:48:04 yeah it is - im thinking a really nice compliment for the tablet Oct 21 10:48:12 the desktop model? Oct 21 10:48:27 something to get round my hangups about a desktop and also something to run libqase on ;) Oct 21 10:48:29 yeah Oct 21 10:48:48 I'm confused, you like the hardware or the way the desktop is arranged? Oct 21 10:48:50 :S Oct 21 10:49:44 heh, the hardware - a nice preconfigured linux desktop machine with touchscreen integrated without having to hack or screw around Oct 21 10:49:58 ah, I see Oct 21 10:50:03 I don't like machines without a keyboard Oct 21 10:50:18 i could have that replacing my main desktop quite easily - i have a usb keyboard :) Oct 21 10:50:30 and a mouse ;) Oct 21 10:50:42 lol, I don't think it would replace my dual core with oodles of RAM Oct 21 10:51:02 hmm. actually could be interesting, those. Oct 21 10:51:28 its not meant to replace your uber pc Oct 21 10:51:30 heh, i build on my tablet, i think a casio watch with a fresnel lens will have more power :P Oct 21 10:51:56 anything running native linux has to be better for me than vmware Oct 21 10:51:58 mais ton petit frere, il a un shell sur la babasse. et lauren, je le connais pas assez pour ca. Oct 21 10:52:01 oups Oct 21 10:52:04 I'll be involved in an event that'll have some info-kiosks around, next summer. Oct 21 10:52:06 and the touchscreen is just the icing really Oct 21 10:53:16 yeah, i think thats gonna be where liqbase expands into :) i really like the idea of a big daddy master version which does more stuff Oct 21 10:53:57 lardman, the camera flash works by the way :) its quite a nice effect Oct 21 10:54:11 cool Oct 21 10:54:26 I'll steal that code for maemo-barcode Oct 21 10:54:28 :) Oct 21 10:54:30 obviously just for show ;) Oct 21 10:54:51 barcode wont need any flash though will it - that just scans all the time? Oct 21 10:55:08 might be useful to get more light on the barcode Oct 21 10:55:17 by the way, 320*240*15fps works really nicely - i upped from the older 8fps and its nice and smooth still Oct 21 10:55:19 at least until we get a camera which faces the right way Oct 21 10:55:25 ahhh no, it wont work that way will it? Oct 21 10:55:36 certainly not in the way ive made it so far Oct 21 10:55:59 i have already grabbed the image before the flash appears Oct 21 10:56:14 ok Oct 21 10:57:04 it could work though actually, the gstreamer code you are working from has no frontend by default, you could simply whiteout the screen anytime Oct 21 10:57:26 how long does the gstreamer pipeline take to startup? Oct 21 10:57:53 restarts are ~5-10 seconds Oct 21 10:58:01 or thats how it feels Oct 21 10:58:40 The barcode scanning is only a part of the barcode app, I'd prefer to be able to shut the pipeline down (and save power) while doing database accesses or internet lookups Oct 21 10:59:56 yeah, thats why i was suggesting just have it as an added extra on the liqbase camera, it can be opened for any purpose and if you happen to show it a barcode it will react Oct 21 11:01:17 well you're welcome to use it, I really want something specifically focused on the barcode data though Oct 21 11:01:20 i wonder how much battery juice it draws by being activated constantly Oct 21 11:01:32 yeah i know Oct 21 11:05:27 lardman, ill do some testing later and see if i can get some metrics on battery life with and without the camera enabled and stuff Oct 21 11:05:39 and see if just pausing the stream is worthwhile Oct 21 11:05:55 cool Oct 21 11:06:15 i dunno HOW im gonna test it lol, but i will Oct 21 11:06:41 infact, yeah i do - leave 2 versions of liqbase running on both machines overnight - logging every minute, one with a live camera, another with a paused camera Oct 21 11:06:46 ill find out when the machine died Oct 21 11:15:54 * Stskeeps stretches Oct 21 11:18:24 that would explain your double 'e' Oct 21 11:18:56 teehee Oct 21 11:19:10 aquatix, don't overdo it! Oct 21 11:20:52 sorry Oct 21 11:40:41 <|zeus|> morning Oct 21 11:40:45 morn Oct 21 11:40:59 <|zeus|> which video format should i use to watch video on n810? Oct 21 11:41:41 consider http://maemo.org/downloads/product/PC/tablet-encode/ maybe Oct 21 11:41:48 <|zeus|> i just downloaded m4v movie for iphone/htc/.. - it plays too slow Ж( Oct 21 11:42:14 it shouldnt really ? what res is it Oct 21 11:43:56 anyone have any idea why some of the wiki pages come up 100% blank and others work Oct 21 11:44:06 ive got 2 tabs open one works and the other doesnt Oct 21 11:44:49 nice: http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=14486 Oct 21 11:45:11 <|zeus|> lcuk: 480x270 Oct 21 11:46:21 aquatix: nice, if it worked properly Oct 21 11:46:35 * aquatix didn't try it yet Oct 21 11:46:39 but i'm sure it gets better Oct 21 11:46:41 it works "decently" Oct 21 11:46:45 not perfect, but decently Oct 21 11:46:53 not with mac or ps3 Oct 21 11:47:12 <|zeus|> hm. maybe problem in qtime/mov file format? Oct 21 11:47:14 and the need to connect from the other end is annoying Oct 21 11:47:14 solmumaha: true Oct 21 11:47:24 ah Oct 21 11:47:36 solmumaha: then again it's a HID device.. Oct 21 11:47:37 well, i might try it on my linux machine Oct 21 11:47:38 bluemaemo is a nice idea, its been ported from some other system hasnt it? Oct 21 11:47:48 yeah, from openmoko Oct 21 11:48:24 morning Oct 21 11:48:24 solmumaha, connecting a remote to any system needs to link from both ends doesnt it Oct 21 11:48:55 hiya hrw Oct 21 11:50:51 i wonder what it would take for the bluemaemo remote to be a 2 way thing - kinda like the optimus maximus keyyboard thing Oct 21 11:50:58 allow the pc to upload the glyphds and keys Oct 21 11:51:40 lcuk: maybe an app on host that connects the host to client Oct 21 11:51:51 i find it pretty useless without that feature Oct 21 11:52:27 well i use a remote control daemon on my desktop - it runs continuously and waits for commands Oct 21 11:52:51 ive just got a simple thing, but i set it up once and its running all the time - i can set the volume of my mplayer from anywhere in the world Oct 21 11:52:55 and REALLY annoy tracy Oct 21 11:53:24 is that advertised as a feature? :p Oct 21 11:53:32 thats not in liqbase :) Oct 21 11:53:47 i used to have a way to wake up my wife from upstairs remotely Oct 21 11:54:04 it was the most required application i had when i got my nokia: my old IR remote died on the computer so i needed something Oct 21 11:54:10 it was useful many times, but i managed to scare myself with that too Oct 21 11:54:18 its wrote in python and connects to a visual basic daemon (yes, shoot me now) Oct 21 11:54:31 stop cursing Oct 21 11:54:40 * aquatix shoots lcuk Oct 21 11:54:52 but `daemon' here is apt ;) Oct 21 11:55:14 * qwerty12_N800 would say service if talking 'bout windows :p Oct 21 11:55:31 yeah Oct 21 11:55:50 but `daemon' in the evil, devil way is quite an apt description for something VB Oct 21 11:56:24 but a service does not belay its true nature - services in windows encapsulate much more than network connections Oct 21 11:56:44 Nothing can beat how gromit used to wake up wallace in the wrong trousers Oct 21 11:56:48 * lcuk wrote a service for windows once Oct 21 11:59:00 has anyone experimented video calls through fring/gizmo5? Oct 21 11:59:22 back later Oct 21 12:00:50 "What people type on a computer keyboard can be easily intercepted remotely, security researchers show." - This is news now? Oct 21 12:01:22 yeah, why bother dealing with setting up bluetooth when you can just power a usb keyboard and intercept it remotely ;) Oct 21 12:03:42 hi all Oct 21 12:09:14 qwerty12_N800: it's news, as it's made easy now Oct 21 12:10:32 * qwerty12_N800 didn't find the other methods of doing it so hard :) Oct 21 12:27:40 someone familiar with buildbot configs? Oct 21 12:31:29 Hmm, weird. Oct 21 12:31:41 With hildon-input-method disabled, the n810 keyboard's Fn key doesn't work. Oct 21 12:32:02 xmodmap lists no modifier for it, and when I try to add one, nothing seems to happen. Oct 21 12:32:43 Normally, it shows Mod5 = ISO_Level3_Shift Oct 21 12:33:15 I guess for now I'll just deal with using ~5% of RAM in order to make a single key work. :) Oct 21 12:35:20 Hmm, looks more like 8% of RAM... Oct 21 12:56:30 hi Oct 21 12:56:54 hello again. i have a pc-connectivity question. i followed the howto on http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking but i don't understand why its necessary to umount the mmc-devices... i don't think they are related to usb. at least i could mount my internal memory back using the fstab entry... while connected to the device via ssh Oct 21 12:57:19 device is a nokia n810 Oct 21 13:44:32 qwerty12_N800: Can you try to upload a package to Extras that has a section like: user/other/test ? Oct 21 13:44:47 qwerty12_N800: So we can see if something breaks in the chain :) Oct 21 13:45:22 Or anybody else who can upload to extras-devel of course ;) Oct 21 13:45:30 X-Fade, Sorry, but I probably wont be on my computer today for a long while :( Oct 21 13:45:57 qwerty12_N800: No worries, I'll see if I can find another tester. Oct 21 13:46:34 It would be nice to see if this subcategories thing breaks our repository tools. If it doesn't, then we only need to change the application manager. Oct 21 13:46:52 X-Fade: "only" ;-) Oct 21 13:47:08 Jaffa: Well, at least we have a battle at one front then ;) Oct 21 13:47:50 So we're going with subcats are we? Oct 21 13:47:52 Jaffa: It seems the discussion died a bit, so we need some more fuel :) Oct 21 13:48:07 lardman: Let's call it experimental exploration ;) Oct 21 13:48:17 X-Fade: it's because Jaffa and I put our points across so well ;) Oct 21 13:48:39 I still think we should go: Short-term -> add a few sane categories, Fremantle -> aim for subcategories. Oct 21 13:49:06 definitely, and stick non-conformant packages in the "dunces" section or similar Oct 21 13:49:40 other ;) Oct 21 13:49:58 And let Khertan translate that as 'Poubelle' ;) Oct 21 13:50:14 yes, seems fair Oct 21 13:50:19 :) Oct 21 13:50:57 Btw, I hacked on the Extras Assistant today. I added uploading to chinook and diablo in one go. Oct 21 13:51:14 Will blog about it soonish. (I hope) Oct 21 13:51:20 Nice one :) Oct 21 13:51:37 And the requirement to sign packages has been dropped. Oct 21 13:51:43 :O Oct 21 13:51:56 So that should make things easier. Oct 21 13:52:02 *wide smile* Oct 21 13:52:56 x-fade :) makes my process smoother anyway, thumbs up from me Oct 21 13:53:44 Now let's hope I didn't break it ;) Oct 21 13:53:54 Worksforme[tm] ;) Oct 21 13:57:05 multitasking my arse Oct 21 13:57:09 bloody WinXP Oct 21 13:57:44 ~lart WinXP for rubbish multitasking Oct 21 13:57:45 * infobot gives WinXP a good seeing to for rubbish multitasking Oct 21 14:02:24 lardman, windows DOES multitask well, it runs its internal things nicely, a virus checker, a spyware checker, a network checker a keyboard checker and a piracy checker. when its doing all that at once its for the common good that your program has to wait Oct 21 14:03:01 lcuk: it;s the fact that my mouse pointer movements and any task switches have to wait if a program is using lots of cpu that gets me Oct 21 14:21:46 n810 the internal memory card is fixed, right? (can not be changed) Oct 21 14:22:06 kaie: yes Oct 21 14:22:13 thanks Oct 21 14:22:36 kaie: sure thing, there is a microsd slot though Oct 21 14:23:13 right, and it appears the limit is 8gb, I haven't seen any larger microsd cards. and minisd seems pretty rare these days Oct 21 14:23:19 GeneralAntilles: hey man, you remember when we talked about the beagle board? Oct 21 14:23:27 GeneralAntilles: and you gave me the name of some kind of other stick Oct 21 14:24:52 crashanddie, gumstix? overo? Oct 21 14:29:37 kaie: a 16gb is available, or should be shortly, and afaik the limit is not 8gb Oct 21 14:30:54 summatusmentis, the 16 gb microsd cards were announced long ago, but I haven't seen anything for sale Oct 21 14:33:13 summatusmentis, whoops, ebay now has 16 gb for sale, they didn't a couple of weeks ago Oct 21 14:33:38 kaie: I was pretty sure they'd just come out Oct 21 14:40:03 * kaie likes housetier's nick Oct 21 14:41:24 ^_^ Oct 21 14:42:37 speaking of which: I am famous now, peter schneider mentions my name in an interview Oct 21 14:42:43 lemme find it on youtube Oct 21 14:42:53 johnx: thanks :) Oct 21 14:44:36 kaie, here it is http://www.youtube.com/?v=pR95TYHDJFE (click on the high quality link) Oct 21 15:01:08 ah, the joys of setting up a new phone Oct 21 15:02:59 t_s_o: new toy? Oct 21 15:04:24 * qwerty12 could do with another phone. It's old now but I'm quite liking the W580 Oct 21 15:04:40 "creature of terrible earnestness overmatched by the situation hes in" Oct 21 15:04:44 Guess who? Oct 21 15:13:44 from someone's cv: hobby - wife... Oct 21 15:14:48 his own? Oct 21 15:15:03 yep Oct 21 15:15:10 Stskeeps, hi? Oct 21 15:15:57 is that specifically stated? Oct 21 15:16:45 maybe he's building himself one Oct 21 15:16:52 or pretending to be one Oct 21 15:17:01 training perhaps Oct 21 15:19:28 why deblet unloads initfs wifi module and loads its own? Oct 21 15:20:00 lardman, a wife in his spare time? or maybe apprenticing? Oct 21 15:20:13 slonopotamus, because the deblet wifi module is better Oct 21 15:20:24 :D Oct 21 15:20:44 johnx, that explains a lot Oct 21 15:20:48 deblet's wifi module supports Linux WEXT extensions Oct 21 15:20:55 Nokia's does not Oct 21 15:20:55 hmm Oct 21 15:21:08 iwconfig & etc? Oct 21 15:21:11 Nokia uses a proprietary config tool. Deblet uses standard linux tools Oct 21 15:21:38 wlancond vs iwconfig/wpa_supplicant Oct 21 15:21:44 ok Oct 21 15:24:03 ~curse trig Oct 21 15:24:04 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, trig ! Oct 21 15:26:09 o_O Oct 21 15:26:54 ~praise johnx Oct 21 15:26:55 All hail johnx! Oct 21 15:27:07 it works Oct 21 15:27:11 ;) Oct 21 15:27:27 ~blame lardman Oct 21 15:27:28 * infobot blames lardman (and Canada) for all the evil in the world Oct 21 15:27:39 muahaha) Oct 21 15:27:41 blame me for something working?! Oct 21 15:27:43 :) Oct 21 15:28:55 what did I do? Oct 21 15:29:06 who? Oct 21 15:29:06 ~smoke weed Oct 21 15:29:08 * infobot rolls up weed, lights a match, kicks back and enjoys the noxious fumes Oct 21 15:30:20 ~smoke weed everyday Oct 21 15:30:21 * infobot rolls up weed everyday, lights a match, kicks back and enjoys the noxious fumes Oct 21 15:30:48 hm Oct 21 15:31:57 ~smoke weed with qwerty12 Oct 21 15:31:58 * infobot rolls up weed with qwerty12, lights a match, kicks back and enjoys the noxious fumes Oct 21 15:32:03 sick man infobot Oct 21 15:32:39 ~smoke causes cancer Oct 21 15:32:40 * infobot rolls up causes cancer, lights a match, kicks back and enjoys the noxious fumes Oct 21 15:32:50 <||cw> ~smoke qwerty12 Oct 21 15:32:51 * infobot rolls up qwerty12, lights a match, kicks back and enjoys the noxious fumes Oct 21 15:33:49 ~smoke the carpet Oct 21 15:33:50 * infobot rolls up the carpet, lights a match, kicks back and enjoys the noxious fumes Oct 21 15:34:10 infobot: forget smoke Oct 21 15:34:10 i forgot smoke, lardman Oct 21 15:34:17 ~off Oct 21 15:34:18 it has been said that off is the opposite of on Oct 21 15:34:25 oh Oct 21 15:34:35 ~on Oct 21 15:34:36 hmm... on is not off Oct 21 15:35:08 ~bitchslap lardman for making infobot forget how to smoke Oct 21 15:35:09 :p Oct 21 15:35:09 * infobot beats the sh*t out of lardman for making infobot forget how to smoke Oct 21 15:35:35 ~die Oct 21 15:35:35 * infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless. Oct 21 15:35:46 :D Oct 21 15:35:54 X-Fade: Useless package uploaded to diablo extras-devel for testing subcategories. To see if this works without signing, I used dput options -fu :/ Oct 21 15:35:54 good to see infobot providing useful info hey? Oct 21 15:35:59 game over Oct 21 15:36:59 qwerty12: Heh, well let's see what happens :) Oct 21 15:37:27 qwerty12: Build succeeded. Oct 21 15:37:29 X-Fade: Please delete it after you have finished testing. That package contains *nothing* :) Oct 21 15:37:31 cool Oct 21 15:38:03 qwerty12: Let's see if it ends up in extras-devel. I will remove it after that. Oct 21 15:38:28 Hmm or maybe we should just leave it, so we can test AM etc ;) Oct 21 15:38:55 If you wish :). The maemo-display-name starts with DO NOT INSTALL :o Oct 21 15:38:59 *:p Oct 21 15:39:18 qwerty12: As long as we don't promote it to Extras, it should be ok ;) Oct 21 15:39:24 ~smoke lardman for trying to make you forget how to smoke, muhahaha Oct 21 15:39:25 * infobot rolls up lardman for trying to make you forget how to smoke, muhahaha, lights a match, kicks back and enjoys the noxious fumes Oct 21 15:39:28 hehe, I certainly wont :p Oct 21 15:42:05 qwerty12: Yes, it works! Oct 21 15:42:14 X-Fade: Great news! Oct 21 15:43:58 works in AM? Oct 21 15:45:42 lardman: It says other/test in AM. Oct 21 15:45:55 lardman: So it doesn't see the subcat. But it doesn't break. Oct 21 15:46:01 cool Oct 21 15:46:36 You now have a nice button with 'other/test' on it ;) Oct 21 15:46:55 * qwerty12 is waiting for my packages list to update Oct 21 15:46:57 This probably isn't the place to ask, but I can't download the maps in wayfinder for the life of me. Does anyone know why I might not be able to? is there an alternate method on how to do this? Oct 21 15:47:33 Dinner time, bbl. Oct 21 15:54:14 android released source today :) Oct 21 15:54:32 hot sauce! Oct 21 15:54:37 http://source.android.com/projects Oct 21 15:54:51 acutally, remove the projects from that Oct 21 17:23:01 don't like deb packages. too verbose. Oct 21 17:24:05 I wonder if way finder has ever heard of a cdn.. or Nokia for that matter Oct 21 17:27:46 Canadian Dairy Network? =) Oct 21 17:28:01 oow Oct 21 17:28:08 hey all! Oct 21 17:28:24 I want to install scratchbox (or whatever development environment) in ubuntu intrepid. Oct 21 17:28:40 I see that there are great directions for doing this with 4.0 in older ubuntus Oct 21 17:28:44 is there anything more updated? Oct 21 17:28:51 http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=453 Oct 21 17:29:53 orangey whats the problem? Oct 21 17:29:55 orangey, have you just tried it? Oct 21 17:30:03 hiya woglinde Oct 21 17:30:09 hi lcuk Oct 21 17:30:22 woglinde: there's no problem. Oct 21 17:30:34 http://repository.maemo.org/stable/4.1.1/INSTALL.txt Oct 21 17:30:37 is yall you need Oct 21 17:30:44 orangey: disabling vdso and lowering the mmap level is a must in hardy at least Oct 21 17:30:47 If there is no more updated version than that, though, then I'll spend a bit more time writing what special things I do. Oct 21 17:31:11 s/lowering/increasing Oct 21 17:31:31 incidentally, the whole reason I'm doing this is to make an updated package of fceu Oct 21 17:31:37 does anybody know if there's an fceu for diablo? Oct 21 17:31:38 the Install.txt has all solutions for the ceavates Oct 21 17:31:45 fceu? Oct 21 17:31:51 the nintendo emulator Oct 21 17:32:03 hm Oct 21 17:32:11 should not be hard to cross compile Oct 21 17:32:13 unless there's another nintendo emulator for maemo that works better.. Oct 21 17:32:13 How do I flash my N800 internet tablet with the 4.2008.35.5 image? Oct 21 17:32:18 http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo+fceu Oct 21 17:32:21 just copy over the debian package Oct 21 17:32:29 and cross compile Oct 21 17:32:30 woglinde: believe me, I've been through it. Oct 21 17:32:48 niadh, are you in windows or linux Oct 21 17:32:55 Linux Oct 21 17:33:01 niadh install the latest image for download Oct 21 17:33:06 anyhow, it's just that the packages don't seem to work for diablo. that's why I thought it would be ideal to compile some. Oct 21 17:33:10 How? Oct 21 17:33:12 ~poop Oct 21 17:33:13 and then hitt update Oct 21 17:33:13 * infobot fertilizes the channel Oct 21 17:33:14 niadh, then you flash to .23 and do an update in app manager Oct 21 17:33:32 ~flashing Oct 21 17:33:33 well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 21 17:33:45 Ah, I did wonder why I could only find a .23 image Oct 21 17:34:04 niadh hm yes its sometimes a little bit confusing Oct 21 17:36:45 hi Oct 21 17:37:09 hi lopz Oct 21 17:37:21 heya woglinde Oct 21 17:39:12 ~gentoo mind Oct 21 17:39:12 * infobot recompiles mind again Oct 21 17:39:24 ~gentoo his mind Oct 21 17:39:25 * infobot recompiles his mind again Oct 21 17:40:35 android sources came out? Oct 21 17:40:37 also with the wiki moving, my old bookmarks to the page don't work anymore Oct 21 17:40:41 ~hump Oct 21 17:40:42 * infobot humps the channel Oct 21 17:41:06 * Stskeeps pokes qwerty12_N800 :P Oct 21 17:41:07 Stskeeps, that they did Oct 21 17:41:09 scary Oct 21 17:41:15 anyone started trying yet? Oct 21 17:41:21 Stskeeps, lol Oct 21 17:41:21 I'm in the process of a massive git pull :) Oct 21 17:41:25 hehe Oct 21 17:41:37 apparently it's actually the whole damn thing too Oct 21 17:41:45 people are completely shocked :) Oct 21 17:41:57 i wonder how it is with power consumption Oct 21 17:42:06 but yes, i'm shocked too Oct 21 17:42:07 including 3d drivers? :) Oct 21 17:42:10 and wet with excitement Oct 21 17:42:10 :P Oct 21 17:42:15 O_o Oct 21 17:42:16 but true Oct 21 17:42:18 T_T Oct 21 17:42:23 (kidding about the wet stuff.) Oct 21 17:42:30 it's raining outside, mmkay. Oct 21 17:42:31 :P Oct 21 17:42:38 Stskeeps, stop lying :p Oct 21 17:42:44 3d drivers, i guess that's needed for decent performance or? Oct 21 17:42:47 * johnx has already run screaming into the hills... Oct 21 17:42:55 Stskeeps, doesn't seem to be Oct 21 17:43:07 I mean it would *help* of course Oct 21 17:43:10 mm Oct 21 17:43:39 I used the hacked up beta on my zaurus and it works on the tablets too Oct 21 17:43:55 the performance wasn't bad, but hopefully some optimizations will help Oct 21 17:44:04 people sayy android has damn slow browser Oct 21 17:44:19 apparently their davlik interpreter is a terrifyingly optimized beast Oct 21 17:44:25 and no sources yet Oct 21 17:44:26 Where can I get and what flags do I use with the flasher tool for linux? Oct 21 17:44:37 ~flashing Oct 21 17:44:37 slonopotamus, no sources for what? the browser? Oct 21 17:44:38 from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 21 17:45:07 johnx, for android. but i didn't check Oct 21 17:45:12 check again Oct 21 17:45:17 it just got released Oct 21 17:45:17 it's not loading the page Oct 21 17:45:18 ok ;) Oct 21 17:45:23 will see if google has it in cache Oct 21 17:45:48 johnx: i wonder what this move will cause really Oct 21 17:45:57 yeah google cache works, but I can't get to the page directly Oct 21 17:46:14 niadh, seems to be a constant state with maemo.org :/ Oct 21 17:46:22 Oh, fair enough Oct 21 17:46:30 Stskeeps, I'm looking forward to seeing things get shaken up a little :) Oct 21 17:46:35 indeed Oct 21 17:46:43 i mean, i would possibly actually run this Oct 21 17:46:48 if it is complete as they say Oct 21 17:47:00 it's been run already as binaries Oct 21 17:47:11 yeah, admittedly i didn't use it then as it was more of a hackk Oct 21 17:47:19 but source avail and updates .. Oct 21 17:47:36 this will fly on an omap3 I'm thinking :) Oct 21 17:47:45 especially with openGL ES Oct 21 17:47:52 yeah Oct 21 17:48:26 does anybody know a good hosting company in europe? Oct 21 17:48:41 moontiger hm what you mean woth good? Oct 21 17:48:43 price Oct 21 17:48:45 traffic? Oct 21 17:48:51 good price for a dedicated server Oct 21 17:48:51 customer care? Oct 21 17:48:54 moontiger: depends on what you want to host and how you define "good" Oct 21 17:48:59 customer care matters not Oct 21 17:49:02 florian *g* Oct 21 17:49:14 some of my websites ... i want to move them out of america Oct 21 17:49:24 not pron Oct 21 17:49:35 and not warez Oct 21 17:49:43 not warez!?! Oct 21 17:49:50 things like gagfoot.com and a few others Oct 21 17:50:03 moontiger hm why? Oct 21 17:50:09 moontiger: heh... Hetzner and Strato (.de) should be quite cheap and more or less reliable. Oct 21 17:50:13 slonopotamus, pulling down the webkit sources google is using right now :) Oct 21 17:50:15 in europe the laws are sometimes stronger Oct 21 17:50:19 1. im moving to europe 2. i dont trust america Oct 21 17:50:31 huh Oct 21 17:50:42 don't trust anyone Oct 21 17:50:49 even yourself Oct 21 17:50:56 :P Oct 21 17:51:50 moontiger: there s the dedibox.free.fr , but i am afraid you need to be living in france to be a customer. Oct 21 17:52:02 may be other european country will have the same pre requisite. Oct 21 17:52:10 hetzner looks good :) Oct 21 17:52:18 melmoth, i signed up and its works :) Oct 21 17:52:23 the phonehome thingy Oct 21 17:52:30 i added clickable images btw ;) Oct 21 17:52:30 \o/ Oct 21 17:52:48 lots of improving and tidying up to do of course Oct 21 17:53:04 beta test opening sg on itt did not have a huge impact..We were visited by.... well... googlebot :) Oct 21 17:53:14 i have an eu passport so im european :) Oct 21 17:53:31 hahaha Oct 21 17:53:37 did googlebot sign up? Oct 21 17:53:42 :) Oct 21 17:53:53 actually, there has been 1 other sign on. Oct 21 17:54:00 cool :) Oct 21 17:54:17 i was thinking of a bunch of features we can talk about when im not teaching Oct 21 17:54:19 moontiger uh what you aredoing with phoneme? Oct 21 17:54:34 but things like config from web site that gets sent down to the daemon when a connection is made Oct 21 17:55:19 can be done, just not for the current config option are they are needed to connect (login basically) Oct 21 17:55:24 right Oct 21 17:55:40 but after the initial we can ... things like frequency and limits Oct 21 17:55:46 and downloads of tracks Oct 21 17:55:47 etc Oct 21 17:56:05 woglinde: http://phonehome.garage.maemo.org/ Oct 21 17:56:49 limits of data and frequency of pic upload sounds doable. Oct 21 17:56:59 melmoth args Oct 21 17:57:00 lol Oct 21 17:57:03 sorry Oct 21 17:57:12 I read phoneme Oct 21 17:57:25 which is opened java me engine from sun Oct 21 17:57:39 * moontiger doesnt really like java Oct 21 17:58:07 i dont know phoneme Oct 21 17:59:17 java is...interesting Oct 21 17:59:46 Sargun_Screen you can use cacao with classpath Oct 21 17:59:54 on the tablets Oct 21 18:06:29 qwerty12_N800: wasn't the problem of android it needs a newish kernel and hence cx3110x won't work (stlc45xx isnt exactly active yet) Oct 21 18:09:26 Stskeeps, hmm, the version me and pb did? wireless actually worked in that kernel. the problem is that newer android builds use some framebuffer thing which isn't really supported by tablet Oct 21 18:09:33 ah Oct 21 18:14:38 turbo, An English teacher by trade? :p Oct 21 18:14:49 The guy didn't come!! -.- twice Oct 21 18:15:08 Is $195(Canadian Dollars) A lot for a nokia N800 .. openbox but unused? Oct 21 18:15:08 ~kill the guy who didn't cum twice Oct 21 18:15:09 * infobot shoots a charged fluxproton gun at the guy who didn't cum twice Oct 21 18:15:11 theres drugs that can help that nowadays Oct 21 18:15:27 lcuk: the guy didnt show again.. Oct 21 18:15:40 thats a bit piss poor, have you spoken to him since? Oct 21 18:15:49 no. Oct 21 18:15:52 but tbh i dont think that matters, go searching for another Oct 21 18:15:53 I waited and called Oct 21 18:16:13 I did.. found one that is willing to wait until i get paid ( Thursday ) .. wants $195 for a openbox, unused though Oct 21 18:16:28 $195 is a lot though isn't it? Oct 21 18:16:40 i dunno since i work in £ Oct 21 18:16:47 and i dont know what kind of $ you mean Oct 21 18:16:48 <|rt|> well it's cheaper than a new n810 Oct 21 18:16:52 only you will know that Oct 21 18:16:57 N800... not N810 Oct 21 18:17:12 <|rt|> yeah...but it's hard to find a new n800 Oct 21 18:17:21 lcuk : 95.15 quid... Oct 21 18:17:31 new n810 = $359.99 Oct 21 18:17:51 but isn't it a lot of money for one? $195 Oct 21 18:18:01 * zakkm person doesnt know about warranty either.. so i figure there is none Oct 21 18:18:05 thats your decision :) Oct 21 18:18:26 warranty is everything on devices like these Oct 21 18:18:28 imo Oct 21 18:18:33 but you guys are experts at this.. Should i wait to buy from someone else, or should i buy from this guy for $195? Oct 21 18:18:45 My 770 got WSOD and i hated it cause i didn't have warranty Oct 21 18:19:07 i purchased direct from nokia, i would personally not recommend getting a second user model of pretty much anything like this Oct 21 18:19:10 would u like to throw $195 down the toliet? Oct 21 18:19:21 no not at all Oct 21 18:19:21 toilet too Oct 21 18:19:23 i cant afford too Oct 21 18:19:27 to* Oct 21 18:19:29 then spend the extra to get new Oct 21 18:19:37 but new 800 isnt available Oct 21 18:19:40 im with lcuk on this Oct 21 18:19:49 i cant afford it new. Oct 21 18:19:53 i know Oct 21 18:19:55 i can hardly even afford $195 Oct 21 18:20:19 i know theres good sellers and good deals out there, if you are careful - as you looked like you were being - then i dont tihnk you will have problems Oct 21 18:20:46 so you think i should wait and find a better deal? Oct 21 18:21:08 i dont think you should rush it :) Oct 21 18:21:52 i dont even know where you are finding these selleres anyway and what reputation system they have etc Oct 21 18:21:52 theres one guy selling it on ebay.. from ITT forum.. ships only to US though :( Oct 21 18:22:01 Craigslist. Oct 21 18:22:33 never used it, wouldnt know Oct 21 18:22:45 its okay, when the ppl show up Oct 21 18:22:52 you know it, right? Oct 21 18:34:16 <|rt|> nice thing about craigslist is that your not buying a blind item Oct 21 18:35:01 yeah that too Oct 21 18:35:05 But sometimes they dont show up -.- Oct 21 18:36:06 <|rt|> i've never had that happen but I haven't bought many things off craigslist Oct 21 18:36:16 craigslist has a lot of flakes Oct 21 18:36:26 Well, just this one guy in particular Oct 21 18:36:33 He acts like its my fault -.- Oct 21 18:36:36 the point is that even tho the seller sells with good faith it may still break the next day Oct 21 18:36:46 Yeah i know that Oct 21 18:36:49 and u have a paperweight Oct 21 18:36:50 but this one guy didnt even show up twice. Oct 21 18:36:53 <|rt|> most of the stuff I get off craigslist is woodworking related...so never really run into flakes Oct 21 18:37:13 right ... i use craigslist a lot for stuff that cant really "break" as such Oct 21 18:37:24 Last i bought was headphones for $10 Oct 21 18:37:27 I love them ;p Oct 21 18:37:43 zakkm where u based? Oct 21 18:37:49 Toronto, Canada Oct 21 18:37:54 ok Oct 21 18:38:04 I thought big city, it would be easy to find a seller. Oct 21 18:38:25 i got mine new from amazon when they came out last xmas Oct 21 18:38:32 how much ? Oct 21 18:38:41 it was $450 then Oct 21 18:38:49 N800 or N810? Oct 21 18:38:53 n810 Oct 21 18:39:00 Tigerdirect sells N810's now for $349.99 Oct 21 18:39:03 :P Oct 21 18:39:11 new, warranty .. etc. Oct 21 18:39:15 yah but $450 == one day of teaching so i didnt mind ;) Oct 21 18:39:25 one day of teaching? Oct 21 18:39:31 you get paid $450 in one days wage? Oct 21 18:39:32 <|rt|> zakkm: that's where I got mine Oct 21 18:39:37 yes Oct 21 18:39:43 what are you teaching ? Oct 21 18:39:46 (finance ? :) ) Oct 21 18:39:54 php / mysql / apache / ajax / javascript Oct 21 18:40:13 no flipping way, $450? Oct 21 18:40:22 why do u think i do it?? :) Oct 21 18:40:34 i code when im not teaching so i do both Oct 21 18:40:37 I believe you teaching.. but getting paid $450 a day ? Oct 21 18:40:40 php / mysql Oct 21 18:40:43 args Oct 21 18:40:50 moontiger: Where are you located? Oct 21 18:40:55 san fran Oct 21 18:41:24 that is wayy too much money Oct 21 18:41:28 hehehe Oct 21 18:42:02 if i go teach at a company its $600 Oct 21 18:42:16 no way.. for one day? Oct 21 18:42:21 * moontiger nods Oct 21 18:42:22 What you teach? Im going into it? :P lol Oct 21 18:42:35 php / mysql / etc etc / ajax / etc etc Oct 21 18:42:45 web languages? Oct 21 18:42:54 yup yup ... open source Oct 21 18:43:07 zakkm $600 is normal Oct 21 18:43:11 and i do contract programming as well Oct 21 18:43:12 Ah man i just dropped computer science. Oct 21 18:43:51 even $150-200 a day would be hella nice Oct 21 18:44:03 hehe thats to cheap Oct 21 18:44:12 and companys think you are bad Oct 21 18:44:14 or so Oct 21 18:44:19 nononono Oct 21 18:44:27 Im thinking thats the point .. for the lifestyle i want. Oct 21 18:44:34 yah i teach people like ebay and google and others Oct 21 18:44:44 they pay big bucks ... but u have to know ur stuff Oct 21 18:45:03 and i travel and work when i want Oct 21 18:45:10 thats why im off to europe soon Oct 21 18:45:13 I'm not good at math though :P Oct 21 18:45:14 change of scene Oct 21 18:45:34 :) Oct 21 18:45:38 I was thinking system administration ? Oct 21 18:45:46 It didn't look too difficult.. no math involved. Oct 21 18:45:52 plenty Oct 21 18:45:59 there doesnt have to be math in programming either Oct 21 18:46:00 you always need math Oct 21 18:46:09 <|rt|> zakkm: you won't get away from programming in sys admin Oct 21 18:46:11 unless ur doing grafix Oct 21 18:46:12 you've got 40 servers, each pulling 240watts - can you cope with a 3kwatt outlet Oct 21 18:46:17 no i just mean like insane algebra.. Oct 21 18:46:18 moontiger yes if you are a webslave Oct 21 18:46:31 i do what pays Oct 21 18:46:39 i also code in assembler and c/ c++ Oct 21 18:46:49 but nobody is paying to do that right now Oct 21 18:46:51 ;) Oct 21 18:46:52 moontiger I meant the math Oct 21 18:46:59 * qwerty12_N800 is shit at maths but i'll be fine as long as i carry a calculator :p Oct 21 18:47:22 hmmmmmmmmm mostly yes woglinde Oct 21 18:47:26 qwerty12_N800 the calculator do not solve inductions Oct 21 18:47:32 but there is of course basic math reqd all the time Oct 21 18:47:56 or algorithm analysis Oct 21 18:47:57 :/ Oct 21 18:47:58 <|rt|> i used to be a technical director doing computer animation but just do sys admin stuff now Oct 21 18:48:14 <|rt|> alot less linear algebra and trig in sys admin Oct 21 18:48:15 how much does admin stuff pay? Oct 21 18:48:24 zakkm depends Oct 21 18:48:37 roughly, starting? Oct 21 18:48:39 some are not getting more than webslaves Oct 21 18:48:48 others get 100k or more Oct 21 18:49:03 depends depends Oct 21 18:49:09 lets say i graduate.. and i did well.. Oct 21 18:49:14 semi high marks Oct 21 18:49:20 i know my stuff.. Oct 21 18:49:28 depends Oct 21 18:49:35 on the firm and people you know Oct 21 18:49:36 sorry Oct 21 18:49:42 <|rt|> you can make a decent living doing sys admin Oct 21 18:49:46 zakkm, local markets are roller coasters, you will find your way Oct 21 18:49:58 <|rt|> one of my friends was one of the first sys admins at google....he's now retired Oct 21 18:50:04 i like to be able to travel Oct 21 18:50:20 <|rt|> but I wouldn't count on that sort of thing happening Oct 21 18:50:36 not in current climate Oct 21 18:50:38 i would like a nice uhh idkk $50k ? Oct 21 18:51:08 I'm still 17.. so I dont know how much my future life is going to cost me. Oct 21 18:51:12 zakkm, look what others around you are earning - check out job offers in your area (or where you want to be) then go for it there Oct 21 18:51:25 if what you are looking for is the money, i think you should not consider coding or admin. try sales. Oct 21 18:51:37 one persons millions could (literally) be anothers peanuts Oct 21 18:51:42 Haha i like computers.. I just cant program Oct 21 18:51:52 I totallyyy failed computer science.. reason i dropped it Oct 21 18:51:57 cant program and admin? Oct 21 18:52:03 thats not good Oct 21 18:52:04 that and i told this year was C#.. and it wasnt Oct 21 18:52:11 its ok, he can join microsoft Oct 21 18:52:14 admin, i think ill do okay Oct 21 18:52:31 if you do not know something about sed or awk Oct 21 18:52:37 microsoft is good? like the people Oct 21 18:52:39 you will be not a good admin Oct 21 18:52:43 they just screwed up the plan i think Oct 21 18:52:55 <|rt|> woglinde: you can replace sed or awk pretty easily with perl or python Oct 21 18:53:00 <|rt|> but then again that's still programming Oct 21 18:53:01 depends whether its ms admin or not Oct 21 18:53:27 rt sed and awk are faster haha Oct 21 18:53:37 and smaller Oct 21 18:54:35 well either way , i wont be graduating for another 4-5 years.. Oct 21 18:54:36 <|rt|> yes that is true but speed and size normally doesn't really matter too much when it comes to system administration Oct 21 18:54:47 im graduating highskool next year.. Oct 21 18:55:12 lcuk you can even programm with cmd and the other ms tools Oct 21 18:55:13 zakkm, i would enjoy being so young for a while yet :) Oct 21 18:55:22 lol Oct 21 18:55:26 Im 17. 18 in march Oct 21 18:55:34 ooooooooo getting old huh? ;) Oct 21 18:55:38 you are still in beta Oct 21 18:55:38 <|rt|> lol Oct 21 18:55:39 Working for $8.20 a hour, cashiering at a grocery store :P Oct 21 18:55:44 alpha actually. Oct 21 18:55:49 heh Oct 21 18:55:51 lol Oct 21 18:56:03 hm Oct 21 18:56:12 better than nothing Oct 21 18:56:21 at 8.20 a hour.. seeing how $195 is alot of money? :P Oct 21 18:56:32 I did sys admin at university for 12 euros Oct 21 18:56:50 this is Canadian dollars. Oct 21 18:56:53 bbl Oct 21 18:57:04 $19 CAD = 12 euro Oct 21 18:57:31 I am young, but its time to start thinking about a job path Oct 21 18:57:37 for me its tax deductible too as its all work related Oct 21 18:57:45 so buying one wasnt a problem Oct 21 18:57:46 :) Oct 21 18:57:59 got it free/ almost free? Oct 21 18:58:05 in effect Oct 21 18:58:13 <|rt|> I don't think sys admin or programming will make anyone rich, there are exceptions, but both jobs will make a decent living Oct 21 18:58:16 get me one :P Oct 21 18:58:16 lol Oct 21 18:58:30 im a very basic person Oct 21 18:58:40 dont need fast stuff, dont want a big house or anything Oct 21 18:58:47 or even a house, apartment life is great in my mind Oct 21 18:58:55 * moontiger nods Oct 21 18:59:09 my pc is an atom 1.6ghz and i think its hella fast :P Oct 21 18:59:12 for what i need Oct 21 18:59:22 lol Oct 21 18:59:57 gma950 ftw! :D Oct 21 19:00:22 i also live basically Oct 21 19:00:29 travelling requires that Oct 21 19:00:55 moontiger: how much you make a day? Oct 21 19:01:08 teaching .... $450 - $600 Oct 21 19:01:16 coding ... $100+ per hour Oct 21 19:01:22 okay lets say $450 ... $450 can be an amazing lifestyle Oct 21 19:01:52 even $100+ -.- Oct 21 19:06:07 Why it shows me a blank page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 21 19:06:33 Sorry, I did Ctrl-F5, it's ok now Oct 21 19:39:01 very quiet here tonight Oct 21 19:39:25 hehe, hi lardman Oct 21 19:39:31 hi qwerty12_N800 Oct 21 19:39:48 I thought you might have done ~silence everyone, or similar Oct 21 19:40:18 :p. btw, infobot agrees wiith smoking :p Oct 21 19:40:21 ~weed Oct 21 19:40:21 weed is probably good Oct 21 19:40:33 hmm Oct 21 19:40:38 grr Oct 21 19:40:53 loll Oct 21 19:41:01 it'll give you psychosis Oct 21 19:41:38 the bot is all knowing, i take its word over yours :p Oct 21 19:41:55 I'm a doctor Oct 21 19:42:08 lardman: probably just shellshock from android source announcement.. as the reason why it's quiet Oct 21 19:42:11 not a MA, but still a doctor :) Oct 21 19:42:23 Stskeeps: fair enough :) Oct 21 19:42:27 ok, i retract that and take your word lardman :) Oct 21 19:42:29 your a doctor, wow. Oct 21 19:42:34 s/MA/MD Oct 21 19:42:36 People here are older than i thought. Oct 21 19:42:40 * lardman can't type, as ever Oct 21 19:42:41 ~qwerty12 Oct 21 19:42:42 i guess qwerty12 is the king of e@$T L0ND0N Oct 21 19:42:49 yeah bruv Oct 21 19:42:58 i told you it's all knowing Oct 21 19:43:24 zakkm: phds can be fairly young Oct 21 19:43:44 I'm 30 fwiw Oct 21 19:44:00 now that's old Oct 21 19:44:05 oi! Oct 21 19:44:07 lol Oct 21 19:44:08 heh, i'm 24 Oct 21 19:44:13 hehe Oct 21 19:44:15 <-- 16 Oct 21 19:44:17 heh, I'm 17 Oct 21 19:44:21 I am 3 years older than lardman Oct 21 19:44:22 impossible, lardman. People don't live that long. Oct 21 19:44:28 yacoob: lol Oct 21 19:44:34 qwerty12, how'd you afford the nokia at 16? Oct 21 19:44:50 he ninjaed his way into nokia Oct 21 19:44:57 with his leet skills Oct 21 19:45:10 zakkm, saved up money for about a year :) Oct 21 19:45:28 zakkm some people has rich friends Oct 21 19:45:33 ups parent Oct 21 19:45:37 I am mean Oct 21 19:45:40 <|rt|> hehe at 31 I guess I don't have much longer to live Oct 21 19:45:51 or doing opensource developement and getting some sponsors Oct 21 19:46:03 |rt|: may i inherit your nokia? :D Oct 21 19:46:09 until this year i was dead Oct 21 19:46:17 <|rt|> zakkm: i think my wife has dibs on it Oct 21 19:46:19 lcuk lol Oct 21 19:46:25 zakkm: they'll probably need to sell it to pay for a tombstone Oct 21 19:46:40 |rt|: that may lead to your death ;p Oct 21 19:46:50 i'll donate my n800 to infobot Oct 21 19:47:02 * zakkm becomes infobot Oct 21 19:47:10 <|rt|> hehe purhaps but I'll die happy Oct 21 19:47:12 same with my n800.. my gf is next in line Oct 21 19:47:16 qwerty12_N800: donate it to Nokia to take some load off the maemo.org 770 Oct 21 19:47:18 in the meanwhile she's getting a ipaq 3630 Oct 21 19:47:19 :P Oct 21 19:47:19 woglinde, serious, i had no internet profile - searching for my name brought up a news article saying i had died in an industrial accident Oct 21 19:47:26 lardman, lol Oct 21 19:47:31 maemo.org only has a 770? Oct 21 19:47:39 lcuk's a ghost! Oct 21 19:47:40 :P Oct 21 19:47:50 * qwerty12_N800 n800 is in bad condition... scratches everywhere Oct 21 19:47:52 zakkm: yeah, sometimes we think it's actually a Zaurus sl-5000D Oct 21 19:48:12 zakkm: hosting that is.... ;) Oct 21 19:48:13 no idea what that is :P Oct 21 19:49:00 only the really old one know Oct 21 19:49:04 zaurus was the first tiny format device that resembled a real computer Oct 21 19:49:08 zakkm: hehe... you are too young ;) Oct 21 19:49:10 that i remember anyway Oct 21 19:49:19 i had sl-5500, i think Oct 21 19:49:38 you oldie :p Oct 21 19:49:46 hang on, thats not the one i eyed up Oct 21 19:50:12 * qwerty12_N800 never was hooked by the zaurus, preferring pocket pc's instead Oct 21 19:50:14 it was the C3000 that i drooled over Oct 21 19:51:16 zakkm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Zaurus, 8MB flash, 32MB RAM Oct 21 19:51:24 i found a video clip today that i had filmed with 5500 and its cf camera Oct 21 19:51:48 solmumaha: you had that camera?! Oct 21 19:51:57 yes :) Oct 21 19:52:02 cool :) Oct 21 19:52:08 doesnt look half bad for its age Oct 21 19:52:09 worse than n800's camera? :p Oct 21 19:52:16 ordered it from germany, cost only 50 e or so Oct 21 19:52:20 not much Oct 21 19:52:22 not bad Oct 21 19:52:34 bring on the n900 5MPix camera is all I can say :) Oct 21 19:54:23 heh, no matter how well nokia do with this next device (could be gold with 8x CPU, a super battery, mega camera and whatnot) people will still find stuff to complain about ;) Oct 21 19:54:37 8x cpu ? Oct 21 19:54:44 they wouldnt do that would they? Oct 21 19:54:56 * lcuk bangs head on wall Oct 21 19:55:02 haha Oct 21 19:55:07 not possible, is it? Oct 21 19:55:16 zakkm: 8 cores would kill battery life :) Oct 21 19:55:27 of course its possible, you would flatten bettery a bit faster Oct 21 19:55:31 it would boot and die real quick tho :) Oct 21 19:55:31 what you talking about, said super battery ;p Oct 21 19:55:39 i want the platinum edition so i can wear it on my neck Oct 21 19:55:46 moontiger, not really - you could get 10-20minutes out of it Oct 21 19:55:56 is there any news on the nokia n900? Oct 21 19:55:58 well thats good then Oct 21 19:55:59 :) Oct 21 19:56:01 lol Oct 21 19:56:07 zakkm: increase my home electricity bills, fuel global warming, don't worry I've got the complaints lined up ;) Oct 21 19:56:16 nokia pocket warmer Oct 21 19:56:17 lol Oct 21 19:56:24 electricity is cheap .. just we use alot :P Oct 21 19:56:37 In ontario, Canada.. it costs the government for electricity more than it costs you ;p Oct 21 19:57:01 phew, good job we dont pay for the government Oct 21 19:57:19 What is this Canada you talk of? Oct 21 19:57:20 i meant electricity is cheap ;p Oct 21 19:57:33 ? Oct 21 19:57:49 How could I change user name in maemo, by default it's "user" Oct 21 19:59:00 hellwolf, i hink you have to go and fill out a form at the local ton hall, and get signatures from 4 friends Oct 21 19:59:05 town ^ Oct 21 19:59:22 +whatever other typo fixup is needed Oct 21 19:59:40 strangers*** not friends.. Oct 21 19:59:40 :P Oct 21 19:59:46 mmmmm i uploaded a version of lb to extras-devel last night Oct 21 20:00:05 but its not there, i think i left it in the queue Oct 21 20:00:11 * lcuk is a plonker Oct 21 20:00:15 check it Oct 21 20:01:54 qwerty12_N800, wheres the list? Oct 21 20:02:07 https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/ Oct 21 20:02:11 ty Oct 21 20:02:19 np Oct 21 20:02:44 no, i think i mustv closed window after the upload but before pushing it :$ Oct 21 20:02:54 at least we don't need to sign stuff anymore :) Oct 21 20:02:57 use dput Oct 21 20:03:08 yeah ill use the assistant for now Oct 21 20:03:35 i was like that but then i saw how much easier dput was Oct 21 20:04:16 yeah but after building i have to manually get it onto my server so i can test it on the other nokia Oct 21 20:04:25 before uploading to extras Oct 21 20:04:33 you should be able to do it from the tablet actually Oct 21 20:04:35 k Oct 21 20:04:47 i should, but i build in scratchbox Oct 21 20:05:07 its such a long winded process, but at least i know ive updated to svn correctly Oct 21 20:05:27 that doesn't matter, i used to build inside sbox and upload outside sbox :) Oct 21 20:05:36 * lcuk 's commits are littered with "ooops forgot xyz" Oct 21 20:05:54 lcuk *g* Oct 21 20:06:10 qwerty i mean actually ensuring the svn source is correct and buildable Oct 21 20:06:17 shurrup woglinde :P Oct 21 20:06:47 i was rocking for a 0.1.0 release until you came alone :P (and very nicely got me past garage security) Oct 21 20:06:56 along ^ Oct 21 20:09:39 qwerty12_N800, you wont have seen this then will you http://liqbase.net/liq.20081021_131225.gary.scr.png Oct 21 20:10:19 no, looks cool :) Oct 21 20:11:06 ive put the same functionality for all buttons, people can stop asking for custom stuff now Oct 21 20:11:58 moo again Oct 21 20:12:14 hi RST38h Oct 21 20:12:25 lcuk: that looks cool Oct 21 20:12:54 I installed avahi-daemon, but every time reboot, it didn't start automatically Oct 21 20:12:56 zakkm :) its even better runnin it properly :) Oct 21 20:13:04 hey RST38h Oct 21 20:13:13 lcuk: whats with the thing at the top right of each option though? Oct 21 20:13:15 PO or something? Oct 21 20:13:16 avahi is overloaded crap Oct 21 20:13:28 but I need that crap Oct 21 20:13:34 ???? Oct 21 20:13:35 thats actually the edit button (which i have the code open for right now) Oct 21 20:13:35 hellwolf: your have to add it to startup :P Oct 21 20:13:44 debian uses rc.conf doesnt it? Oct 21 20:13:46 nobody needs it Oct 21 20:13:52 zakkm nope Oct 21 20:13:54 edit button displays and lets you select the icon for that button Oct 21 20:13:57 sysv Oct 21 20:14:00 * qwerty12_N800 has avahi for jokes Oct 21 20:14:01 zakkm, how could I add it. The question is I used N800 before, and I installed avahi also Oct 21 20:14:02 ah Oct 21 20:14:10 it could start it self Oct 21 20:14:16 * lcuk is makin it vanish tonight :) Oct 21 20:14:21 hellwolf: installing a daemon doesnt mean it starts up right away.. its not windows :P Oct 21 20:14:34 no it cant Oct 21 20:14:35 lcuk the wizard Oct 21 20:14:43 zakkm hellowolf maybe the package is broken Oct 21 20:14:44 nothing can call on it to startup by default. Oct 21 20:15:03 well i guess the install script can add it to config .. but yeah Oct 21 20:15:03 qwerty12_N800 did you install later version from my site? or have you still got an old one? Oct 21 20:15:14 I have this Oct 21 20:15:14 # ls -l /etc/rc2.d/S14avahi-daemon Oct 21 20:15:14 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 Oct 21 20:55 /etc/rc2.d/S14avahi-daemon -> ../init.d/avahi-daemon Oct 21 20:15:26 so that doesnt mean its started up Oct 21 20:15:32 hellwolf hm looks good Oct 21 20:15:37 just means you can do /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon start Oct 21 20:15:42 to start it Oct 21 20:15:47 is there a /etc/default/avahi? Oct 21 20:15:52 lcuk, 0.1.5 :) Oct 21 20:16:01 hellwolf-n810:~# ls -l /etc/default/avahi-daemon Oct 21 20:16:01 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 219 Aug 14 21:05 /etc/default/avahi-daemon Oct 21 20:16:02 so the camera works for you :) Oct 21 20:16:12 or havent you noticed/tried Oct 21 20:16:13 hellwolf look whats in there Oct 21 20:16:19 AVAHI_DAEMON_DETECT_LOCAL=1 Oct 21 20:16:25 maybee its turn of by default Oct 21 20:16:39 lcuk, it works great! most stable camera app by far :) Oct 21 20:16:48 the question is it didn't start up Oct 21 20:16:49 heh Oct 21 20:16:58 I can manually start avahi-daemon Oct 21 20:17:03 hellwolf right Oct 21 20:17:07 /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon start Oct 21 20:17:12 thats cos its not trying to be a super cam :) Oct 21 20:17:15 and it's also in /etc/rc2.d Oct 21 20:17:25 and why it didn't startup Oct 21 20:17:28 hellwolf, install sysklogd and examine the log to see messages as to why it wont start on startup Oct 21 20:17:36 ok Oct 21 20:17:52 lcuk, i love it the way it is ^-^ :p Oct 21 20:18:16 qwerty :) Oct 21 20:18:39 :) Oct 21 20:18:55 * lcuk passes qwerty12 an envelope Oct 21 20:19:03 lol Oct 21 20:19:26 nahhh, kot was sayin last night i should add param to liqbase specifically for the camera Oct 21 20:19:47 cos it just works and is quick and stuff :) i tend to agree Oct 21 20:20:49 i'm for leaving it as it is unless you decide to make any changes, the camera is crap anyway, no point in putting a lot of work :p Oct 21 20:21:38 heh, i agree, but just having it there and giving my nokia to someone for a minute gets me a picture of them and a quick hello in the sketchpad Oct 21 20:21:49 its all kept together so now i can keep names and faces together :) Oct 21 20:22:03 * lcuk has a terrible memory Oct 21 20:22:34 heh, i'm good at remembering this i don't need to :/ Oct 21 20:22:41 *things Oct 21 20:23:30 heh, i just think its cool to let people see the nokia and play with it (word of mouth is excellent this way) and i might as well keep the info once its there Oct 21 20:24:52 yeah, i was showing off my nokia with liqbase and it was to the liking of everyone :) (i was able to present the camera as good!) Oct 21 20:25:27 so in your photo album and eventually your graffiti wall you know that today you were havin a laugh with friends Oct 21 20:25:43 cos their photos are there and they squiggled a bit Oct 21 20:25:44 lcuk: should have a upload feature :P Oct 21 20:25:44 for the camera :P Oct 21 20:25:51 zakkm :) Oct 21 20:26:08 i ask for a users name before using the program. there is a reason for this Oct 21 20:26:09 lcuk, this was when you just had the blit test :) Oct 21 20:26:15 heh Oct 21 20:27:02 well, username=`uname_-a`hhjjkkjhy ... Oct 21 20:27:22 why the _ in uname -a ? Oct 21 20:27:31 zakkm, what if you could take a picture and write on the back of it (like an old polaroid) and send it to someone Oct 21 20:27:42 lol Oct 21 20:27:43 oh that'll be cool Oct 21 20:27:45 or like uhh Oct 21 20:27:52 a postcard Oct 21 20:27:54 Annotate your photo? Oct 21 20:28:04 i really hope nokia doesnt screw up the camera on the next model Oct 21 20:28:05 take a photo .. and then like draw on it Oct 21 20:28:07 yeah Oct 21 20:28:14 add glasses, block out the eyes.. idunno Oct 21 20:28:28 .. you are starting to see where i am heading :) Oct 21 20:28:57 no offense, i mean liqbase sounds really amazing and i would totally install / keep up to date.. but showing ppl the nokia.. wouldn't ppl be liking it more from canola? Oct 21 20:29:38 canola is a media consumer - liqbase creates and catalogues entirely new data Oct 21 20:29:51 yeah but isnt that what people generally want. Oct 21 20:29:57 Maybe its just me being a teenager. Oct 21 20:30:05 no, ive got canola on mine Oct 21 20:30:14 people like to play and watch and listen Oct 21 20:30:37 but they aso like to draw and take pics and write messages and do funky stuff Oct 21 20:31:17 theres plenty of space on the nokia for all things :) Oct 21 20:32:14 ahh i want one Oct 21 20:32:18 damn guy didn't show up Oct 21 20:32:19 -.- Oct 21 20:32:23 hah Oct 21 20:32:25 qwerty12_N800, on my N800, I also installed avahi-daemon, but I didn't find avahi-daemon startup script in /etc/rc2.d, and it does startup correctly. Contrary, on my N810, avahi-daemon has a script under /etc/rc2.d, but it doesn't startup. So where's the actual place for startup programs Oct 21 20:32:47 hellwolf just google debian startup config Oct 21 20:32:55 daemon startup Oct 21 20:33:03 debian daemon startup config Oct 21 20:33:17 hellwolf, it's actually rc2.d & rc5 (for the charger) :/ Oct 21 20:34:07 you have a N800 and N810? Oct 21 20:34:14 qwerty12_N800, # ls /etc/rc2.d/*avahi* Oct 21 20:34:14 ls: /etc/rc2.d/*avahi*: No such file or directory Oct 21 20:34:20 qwerty12_N800, on my N800 Oct 21 20:34:26 ... your not looking for a file called avahi? Oct 21 20:34:28 qwerty12_N800, but the avahi starts up Oct 21 20:34:45 hellwolf both have diablo installed? Oct 21 20:35:00 no, one is diablo(n810), one is chinook Oct 21 20:35:03 hellwolf, /etc/rc2.d/S14avahi-daemon /etc/rc2.d/S16avahi-dnsconfd Oct 21 20:35:11 from my n800 Oct 21 20:37:39 that's interesting Oct 21 20:37:58 Damn spammers Oct 21 20:38:00 qwerty12_N800, I found on my N800(chinook), it's startup by ./network/if-up.d/avahi-daemon Oct 21 20:38:03 * GeneralAntilles is way too lazy to read the scrollback. Oct 21 20:38:22 in my n810, it changed Oct 21 20:38:34 Why does GNUton insist on breaking my wiki? Oct 21 20:39:24 hellwolf, ah Oct 21 20:41:42 hey guys, I just received a N810 and it came with a sticker in the middle of the screen with some sort of 2D barcode. Removing that sticker left a layer of sticker and glue on the screen. Anyone also had this? Oct 21 20:42:28 that's sad Oct 21 20:42:58 are you sure you've not left the clear plastic cover that sticker is stuck to on Oct 21 20:43:10 aazar, it's not on the screen. Oct 21 20:43:14 There's a factory shipping protector Oct 21 20:43:17 ~screen-protector Oct 21 20:43:24 here we go Oct 21 20:43:27 https://wiki.maemo.org/Screen_protector Oct 21 20:43:32 mine had a hard plastic protector which that barcode was stuck onto Oct 21 20:43:34 ~screen-protector is https://wiki.maemo.org/Screen_protector Oct 21 20:43:35 okay, GeneralAntilles Oct 21 20:43:35 thanks guys, that protective screen is really invisible! Oct 21 20:43:47 aazar: how much you pay? Oct 21 20:43:48 thats the idea Oct 21 20:44:14 zakkm: not sure, from the company Oct 21 20:44:24 i wonder if one day we will tell someone that and they will actually forcefully pop the lcd out Oct 21 20:44:25 lucky Oct 21 20:45:28 zakkm, depends, he might have to run the entire companies webserver on there Oct 21 20:45:42 is that actually done? Oct 21 20:45:46 sounds weird. Oct 21 20:45:55 how do you think maemo.org works? Oct 21 20:45:57 might as well just get simple pc parts. Oct 21 20:46:05 actually on a nokia? Oct 21 20:46:10 sounds odd Oct 21 20:46:16 silent computing, low heat, high density Oct 21 20:46:40 so its plugged into like a wall for power 24/7? Oct 21 20:47:21 just because these machines CAN be carried around doesnt mean they have to be. mines plugged in most of the time Oct 21 20:50:32 But they're weak for one Oct 21 20:50:39 Especially the 770. Oct 21 20:51:02 grrr, i keep on having to rebuild gtk icon cache. i wondered why my n800 is still showing full battery even now Oct 21 20:51:57 it shows you full battery because its scared of you Oct 21 20:52:11 you keep plugging all these dangerous chargers into it Oct 21 20:53:11 lol, i'm surprised it's still survived. i plugged in a dodgy usb cable i spliced together and the port is still working Oct 21 20:53:12 lcuk, stop being evil. :P Oct 21 20:53:24 heh Oct 21 20:53:57 * GeneralAntilles never got a reply from tekojo this morning. Oct 21 20:55:03 Thank you for promoting your package to Extras. It can take up to an hour for the package to show up in Extras Oct 21 20:56:19 woo Oct 21 20:56:21 liqbase? Oct 21 20:56:22 heh, it took a day or two for rootsh to show up there and it's not exactly the biggest package. but that was a long while ago Oct 21 20:56:31 yes :) Oct 21 20:57:18 it will do for now, i cant get the package any cleaner and i need more time for larger changes Oct 21 20:57:30 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Oct 21 20:57:40 sighing? Oct 21 20:57:50 My pet projects have all come screeching to a halt because of missing people. Oct 21 20:57:57 heh Oct 21 20:58:07 * GeneralAntilles gets ready to take it out on the council. Oct 21 20:58:18 GeneralAntilles: and that is why man invented companies, where you pay people to do it Oct 21 20:58:20 DUCK! Oct 21 20:58:21 :P Oct 21 20:58:35 (sad problem in open source projects really) Oct 21 20:59:07 actually, it'll happen in commercial projects too. Oct 21 20:59:13 but you'll just hear about those. Oct 21 20:59:16 eh, not. Oct 21 20:59:29 hey folks. has anyone here tried the fennec alpha? Oct 21 20:59:53 We have a really cool and really good project at work, that we started some 4 years ago, but it seems never to finish because lack of prioritizing and time to do it. Oct 21 20:59:56 I was wondering if it was less slooooow (as one review described it) if "browserd" was killed off first. Oct 21 21:02:32 GeneralAntilles, for os-v, is it required that the user has the 0option* of turning off the legal warning? Oct 21 21:02:38 -O Oct 21 21:02:57 Nothing in particular is required Oct 21 21:03:10 Yes, that's a patch I'd like to bundle with the community application manager, though. Oct 21 21:03:19 GeneralAntilles: bootmenu preference btw - that when package is installed, it has flashed/fixed initfs? Oct 21 21:03:24 * GeneralAntilles fires off a "What the hell is with the goddamn servers?!" email to -community. Oct 21 21:03:48 GeneralAntilles: or "install bootmenu" menu item Oct 21 21:03:56 Stskeeps, my plan was to bundled only the bootmenu-capable initfs with osv-c. Oct 21 21:04:01 k Oct 21 21:04:05 My 1st simple patch works but i'm having problems with the one where i give the user the option Oct 21 21:04:13 and whether you see it or not would depend on your settings in the control panel. Oct 21 21:04:17 me and fanoush are discussing bootmenu a bit and how to go around making it more mainstream Oct 21 21:04:38 I don't really have any opinions on how it should be done for regular osv Oct 21 21:05:08 (probably good i have fanoush to talk a bit to, i'd probably be a bit reckless else..) Oct 21 21:05:19 qwerty12_N800, I'll get a Garage page up at some point and we can start collecting them and getting more people involved. Oct 21 21:05:42 --other than that I don't think the "Install bootmenu" .desktop is very elegant. Oct 21 21:06:08 probably not, but it's a first step Oct 21 21:06:17 and it would (for diablo) be a mount initfs probably Oct 21 21:06:20 +remount rw Oct 21 21:06:50 Ok, ta, it would be nice. I've got the settings part sorted, just having troubles when it comes to the if statements for the actuall install process Oct 21 21:07:53 Hmm, didn't know Tim has problems with his plumbing :p Oct 21 21:10:17 why would you need if statements in an install? Oct 21 21:10:25 you already know the hardware, the configs, etc Oct 21 21:11:45 no no, i'm talking about the application manager like when it comes to install the application, if showlegal; etc if !showlegal; etc Oct 21 21:13:21 nemo: it's probably not any faster, but it might take longer to run out of memory Oct 21 21:13:51 hi Oct 21 21:13:55 y0 Oct 21 21:14:13 mfinkle_: ah. 'cause the fennec dev I was chatting with (are you one?) blamed it on the memory allocation Oct 21 21:14:14 Ha Oct 21 21:14:16 http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/21/nokia-survey-finds-that-many-americans-work-on-the-can-the-defi/ Oct 21 21:14:36 mfinkle_: he said that fennec still, at present, required about 60 megs, and with this whole preloading thing, the N810 only had about 40 free by default Oct 21 21:14:51 I want to try fennec! Where is it? Oct 21 21:14:59 mfinkle_: personally, that seems like a lot of memory, my old laptop running seamonkey only needs like 15 megs for the suite Oct 21 21:15:05 shapr, still not in Extras-devel. . . . :P Oct 21 21:15:09 bah Oct 21 21:15:10 ... Oct 21 21:15:11 ;p Oct 21 21:15:15 60 megs is way too high Oct 21 21:15:23 yeah, 60 doesn't sound right at all Oct 21 21:15:36 especially for 1 tab open Oct 21 21:15:37 * qwerty12_N800 "durfs" with my tablet... Oct 21 21:16:01 Is that real MB or top "MB"? Oct 21 21:16:23 shapr: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/fennec/1.0a1/releasenotes/ - 1 click install Oct 21 21:16:28 yay! Oct 21 21:16:46 * GeneralAntilles grumbles about the proliferation of 3rd-party repositories. . . . Oct 21 21:17:27 life is about 3rd parties Oct 21 21:17:48 (and we'll get there) Oct 21 21:17:50 3rd party repositories hurt developers and hurt users. Oct 21 21:17:59 how so? Oct 21 21:18:03 (and hurt me :() Oct 21 21:18:50 Because it makes it harder for users to find software, and increases the likely hood them damaging their system. Oct 21 21:23:04 * qwerty12_N800 wishes numptyphysics guy would upload to diablo extras too - hate having to add chinook extras Oct 21 21:23:06 It also makes my job harder, as instead of just saying to a user who wants to install x "Enable Extras and install x", I have to spend 5 minutes telling them how to add x's repository to h-a-m. Oct 21 21:25:03 GeneralAntilles: I'm pretty new to packing in general: what is needed to build a package of my app and make it available in an offical repo? Oct 21 21:25:14 ~uploading-extras Oct 21 21:25:15 it has been said that uploading-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Oct 21 21:25:39 EgS you have to look at the debian news maintainer guide Oct 21 21:25:46 with some tweaks for maemo Oct 21 21:25:57 GeneralAntilles: thanks Oct 21 21:26:03 woglinde: you mean regarding packing itself? Oct 21 21:26:11 http://maemo.org/forrest-images/pdf/maemo-policy.pdf Oct 21 21:26:12 lcuk, wee, now will i be able to find the easter egg? Oct 21 21:26:21 ~maemo-packaging is http://maemo.org/forrest-images/pdf/maemo-policy.pdf Oct 21 21:26:21 GeneralAntilles: okay Oct 21 21:26:55 GeneralAntilles: thanks again :) Oct 21 21:27:07 (though i've seen what it is but...) Oct 21 21:27:25 god, #android attracts more trolls than a bridge Oct 21 21:27:53 atleast the troll level in this channel isn't that high Oct 21 21:28:20 We only have to deal with Stskeeps. :P Oct 21 21:28:26 * shapr snickers Oct 21 21:28:30 GeneralAntilles: is there a separate repo or some keyword for CVS builds? Oct 21 21:29:24 GeneralAntilles: yeah, but i'm not completely against maemo :P Oct 21 21:29:57 Stskeeps is just against the open-source parts. Oct 21 21:30:20 GeneralAntilles: uhm... I think that sounded stupid... I meant CVS-style-builds... some sort of nightly builds Oct 21 21:30:33 EgS, Extras-devel is for unstable stuff Oct 21 21:30:36 ~extras Oct 21 21:30:37 from memory, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Oct 21 21:30:59 Maybe not quite as unstable as nightlies, but alpha and beta stuff. Oct 21 21:32:32 jeah but if you (the developer) sees that a new feature as reached some level of stability and usability one could build and upload a new package there to, right? Oct 21 21:32:44 *has reached... Oct 21 21:33:25 Sure Oct 21 21:35:01 thanks... I think I have to read up some stuff... until now I just upload the binary compiled in scratchbox to my webhost (well that was more a proof of concept that my app runs on maemo) Oct 21 21:35:25 * Stskeeps wonders why there hasn't been a maemo vs android flamewar on ITT yet Oct 21 21:35:32 there's so much to grab at Oct 21 21:35:47 :) Oct 21 21:35:59 then again, they do target two different things Oct 21 21:36:04 Sts, why don't you go create one? Oct 21 21:36:19 inz: i'm not that bored Oct 21 21:36:24 Stskeeps hm because its to diffrent Oct 21 21:36:26 Stskeeps, fingers crossed there isn't one. i hear so much shit with those threads Oct 21 21:36:26 Sts, ...yet Oct 21 21:36:34 java vs. gtk Oct 21 21:36:41 glibc vs. bionic Oct 21 21:37:01 heh Oct 21 21:37:37 java vs gtk? I thought it was Qt vs gtk ;) Oct 21 21:37:57 inz: heated discussions are only interesting if they have something constructive coming out of it :P Oct 21 21:38:38 Sts, so heated discussions are never interesting... ;) Oct 21 21:38:39 EgS android is using a java derivat Oct 21 21:39:24 ooh right... I already left the android topic behind :) Oct 21 21:39:38 egs today the source code was opened Oct 21 21:39:49 tomorrow the deliver/selling of g1 begins Oct 21 21:41:14 oh thats the cause for the increased android-noise :) Oct 21 21:41:21 android looks sick :) Oct 21 21:41:24 what i will give maemo however, it's polished, it has seamless connectivity, a vibrant hacking community, "open" structure of maemo.org , interaction directly with community on forums and such, and quite a lot of flexibility for experimentation Oct 21 21:41:50 Stskeeps: and nobody's gonna rape your system if they find an application they deem "unworthy" Oct 21 21:42:11 Stskeeps: google users are more of the kind that are happy to use what google gives them, even if it's just gratis and not free. Oct 21 21:43:12 nothing wrong with gratis, but people should be more educated. Some people will gladly do things they are not allowed to do with google property because they think they are allowed since google provides it for free... Oct 21 21:44:32 why would there be a maemo vs android flame/ Oct 21 21:44:39 s#/#?# Oct 21 21:44:46 those are different things Oct 21 21:44:57 yacoob: because some people like to flame for the hell of it. Oct 21 21:45:01 Well, so are the iPhone and the tablets. Oct 21 21:45:17 gomiam, okay, here's something more challenging: iPhone vs Easter. Oct 21 21:45:26 XD Oct 21 21:45:44 that's an easy one: all iPhone users are heathens! Oct 21 21:45:53 now iphone vs g1 flame would have a grain of sense in that Oct 21 21:46:08 (if it's g1, not android) Oct 21 21:46:42 okay, my view on android is not so much the stuff itself, but the fact it's possible to adopt android to your device (arm only or x86 too), because the platform is open sourced. i can't easily build a maemo from scratch for another device Oct 21 21:46:47 It still cracks me up that all of the G1 pictures on the net show it will a lopsided display. Oct 21 21:46:48 maemo/ITOS Oct 21 21:46:59 and that is a bit of a game changer Oct 21 21:47:03 ITOS is deprecated. Oct 21 21:47:08 Stskeeps you can add other archs too Oct 21 21:47:14 It's like the old iMac all over again. Oct 21 21:47:23 Stskeeps, yeah. At the same time, all android software would have to be written from scratch Oct 21 21:47:24 I looked at the bionic stuff some minutes ago Oct 21 21:47:28 which is not that good either Oct 21 21:47:36 yacoob: that's true Oct 21 21:47:59 and that's a force for maemo that it's "backwards compatible" Oct 21 21:48:01 (posix..) Oct 21 21:48:04 to turn it around yet again, there's nothing worse than desktop app "ported" to tablet without changing the interface... :) Oct 21 21:48:32 Stskeeps, but users don't care. As in 'majority of users, that are at the same majority of cash flowing in' Oct 21 21:48:58 users will use things that are a/ flashy, b/ easy to grasp, c/ doing 80% of the good job Oct 21 21:49:05 but the fact they make apps from scratch, - we sortof do that too, we adopt with hildon to get power savings Oct 21 21:49:31 the % of people that care about posix compability and fact that you can ssh to your device is not important, business-wise Oct 21 21:49:35 sadly, but eh. Oct 21 21:50:18 I care! Oct 21 21:51:46 and android is in a position where there would be a shared platform for many different devices, and new apps would work instantly on any of them - a comparison might be pocketpc/windows mobile, which, amazingly, has a lot of apps and users Oct 21 21:52:00 no matter how crappy the OS Oct 21 21:52:01 :P Oct 21 21:52:31 that's very true. Say, have you seen Balmer today, fuming smoke and fire from his nostrils? Oct 21 21:52:54 Stskeeps: yeah.. if it gets popular the vm could be ported to whatever Oct 21 21:53:56 I've bought n810 as a palm replacement - to discover that it's get close, but sometimes not close enough :) I've probably start looking at android-powered something to replace n810 yet again, but that'd probably be end of next year Oct 21 21:54:07 and actually, i'd rather see nokia see the possibility for maemo as well in this field, but they might be too late out now Oct 21 21:54:15 when we'll have choice, lots of software, and we'll perfectly know limitations Oct 21 21:54:39 oh, and when they discover infinite batteries. That might take a bit longer than a year though... :) Oct 21 21:55:53 I'd wait for Maemo 5 and the N900 if you're talking late next year. :P Oct 21 21:56:31 That too :) Oct 21 21:57:01 (but there's kind of a chance that I'll be getting Android anyway... from my employer) Oct 21 22:00:39 what i'd really love to see nokia do is, realize maemo is a possibility for a general mobile device (non-phone, maybe voip) platform, research ways to easier port "desktop" apps (and not lay in bad hinderances/upstream incompatibilities), get off their high horse of closed source regarding seamless connectivity, ui items and such and live off the hardware and associated services, - so it's possible to make a maemo system from scratch, without in-maemo ... Oct 21 22:00:46 ... special things like wayfinder/map, media players and other differentiators Oct 21 22:01:11 that you can shop for and get from nokia for your own platform if you so desire, but provided along with tablets for free Oct 21 22:01:26 but this is probably not a good thing in terms of business Oct 21 22:01:29 and cost of R&D Oct 21 22:01:59 arent they doing exactly that for symbian? Oct 21 22:02:13 (pushing for universal mobile platform) Oct 21 22:02:38 I suspect Nokia has plans. Oct 21 22:02:51 yeah, maybe, but symbian is a bit akin to beating yourself with barbwire api wise afaik Oct 21 22:02:52 But they're probably too far in the future to really make a difference. Oct 21 22:03:23 I did some Symbian dev when the Nokia 9210 was new, it sucked bad. Oct 21 22:03:25 GeneralAntilles: they could really make a game changer with wimax/3g, agreed Oct 21 22:04:16 Stskeeps: Yes, for once I agree with you. Autoflagellation with barbed wire describes Symbian development. Oct 21 22:05:01 I have a feeling that maemo is kinf of a pet project at nokia Oct 21 22:05:11 and they don't treat it very well Oct 21 22:05:32 perhaps a big pet Oct 21 22:05:34 They don't. Oct 21 22:05:47 It appears to be a bit of a running joke with the rest of the company. Oct 21 22:05:57 not as big as s40/s60 Oct 21 22:06:14 corpo environment is perfect place for stuff like that happening :( Oct 21 22:06:31 GeneralAntilles: phone companies are a funny bunch.. Oct 21 22:06:33 well, gotta go, battery almost empty Oct 21 22:06:47 or heavily engineer controlled ones Oct 21 22:06:51 how does nokia not treat maemo well? Oct 21 22:06:56 Apparently they've had some internal pilot programs to use the tablets as productivity tools Oct 21 22:07:02 which've failed miserably. Oct 21 22:07:17 ljp, not enough resource allocation for one. Oct 21 22:07:55 GeneralAntilles: if we skip 3-4 years ahead and pervasive computing has become daily life, nokia would have a ball with tablets and such Oct 21 22:07:58 i think they have more people in maemo than all of qt software Oct 21 22:08:04 .. but that's a bit of a pipe dream Oct 21 22:08:46 coming from the outside, nokia is a beast with a lot of processes and umm.. stuff Oct 21 22:09:02 ljp, you work for Qt Software? Oct 21 22:09:05 yes Oct 21 22:09:15 working on qt extended Oct 21 22:09:45 Agility is something big companies don't have. Oct 21 22:09:50 i just think mameo and nokia needs to stramline and get better organized Oct 21 22:09:56 night all Oct 21 22:09:58 maemo Oct 21 22:10:06 if we skip 3-4 years ahead, I'd love to see fully distributed computing Oct 21 22:10:08 streamline Oct 21 22:10:21 * ljp needs better thumbs Oct 21 22:10:29 storage in my backpack/jacket, computing power anywhere I go Oct 21 22:10:44 that's so not going to happen, but hey, gotta have some dreams, right? Oct 21 22:10:46 yacoob: cyber foraging would certainly be a nice things Oct 21 22:10:49 -s Oct 21 22:10:59 people at my uni research using nokia tablets in that Oct 21 22:11:37 any links you can give to read about it? Oct 21 22:12:00 yacoob: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rajesh/papers/sigops02.pdf Oct 21 22:12:20 (i think) Oct 21 22:12:33 thank you Oct 21 22:13:04 but it's just not going to happen in 3 years, or at least not at the scale I'd like to see it Oct 21 22:13:11 we don't even have technologies for that Oct 21 22:13:44 it's really getting tehre Oct 21 22:13:59 I want a major battery breakthrough between now and then. Oct 21 22:14:03 hopefully, I'm wishing it the best of luck :) Oct 21 22:14:05 a "cheap" tablet is a good step on the way Oct 21 22:14:30 Batteries are the achilles heel of mobile tech right now. Oct 21 22:14:41 GeneralAntilles right Oct 21 22:14:45 nokia got it right regarding some of the things to save power though Oct 21 22:14:54 i think 10 days idle is amazing, honestly Oct 21 22:15:03 hm but the fuel battery should be ready in one year Oct 21 22:15:05 Or 30, if you're insane like fanoush. :D Oct 21 22:15:09 then this is solved too Oct 21 22:15:10 If you haven't read Accelerando by Charles Stross, you might like it. It has gadgets like that ;) http://www.accelerando.org/_static/accelerando.html Oct 21 22:15:15 what was that 24h laptop HP had in store? Oct 21 22:15:22 GeneralAntilles: i think s2ram might have a renaissance when OHM comes in the picture Oct 21 22:15:43 Stskeeps, how fast is it? Oct 21 22:15:59 GeneralAntilles: hm? Oct 21 22:16:11 s2ram and wake? Oct 21 22:16:14 Yeah Oct 21 22:16:14 quite fast, on n800 Oct 21 22:16:21 like 2-3 secs Oct 21 22:16:34 maybe less Oct 21 22:16:39 Assuming that you don't have any evil processes, does it actually provide a real benefit? Oct 21 22:16:41 night, people Oct 21 22:16:45 night Oct 21 22:16:59 GeneralAntilles: s2ram? very deep sleep certainly helps on battery Oct 21 22:17:15 Well, I mean, with OMAP3, the CPU is turned off at idle anyway. Oct 21 22:17:34 yeah, but in s2ram system doesn't wake up until user wants it or an alarm is set, so Oct 21 22:17:42 which has advantages Oct 21 22:20:09 Kinda feels like a workaround to badly behaving processes. Oct 21 22:20:53 well a select(), timeout 60 seconds.. is that a badly behaving process? Oct 21 22:22:05 even that timeout will make a difference in battery time Oct 21 22:22:13 Eh, fair enough. Oct 21 22:23:07 but i dunno :P Oct 21 22:23:20 not an engineer,s o Oct 21 22:23:21 :P Oct 21 22:23:33 Integrating it with s2ram might be nice. Oct 21 22:23:36 er Oct 21 22:23:40 s/s2ram/soft poweroff. Oct 21 22:24:25 Can't do shit w/out code (s2ram is closed too) :/ Oct 21 22:24:38 qwerty12_N800: the .sh works Oct 21 22:24:52 Stskeeps, really? never tried it Oct 21 22:25:05 qwerty12_N800: i used it in ireland Oct 21 22:25:22 ah, ok, i'll grab it now Oct 21 22:25:32 It's just the watchdogs being evil, right? Oct 21 22:26:51 GeneralAntilles: yeah, but i kinda wonder cos it did manage to stay asleep for several hours at once, without system waking up as far as i could see Oct 21 22:27:01 for kicking watchdog Oct 21 22:27:07 File an enhancement request about it? Oct 21 22:28:07 i think the primary s2ram problem was dsp related, so dsptasks should finish running before s2ram or something Oct 21 22:28:22 Outline what you can of the issue and file a bug. Oct 21 22:28:22 and stuff like OHM would help this Oct 21 22:28:30 Unlikely to be fixed for Diablo, but maybe Fremantle. Oct 21 22:28:40 Nothing's going to change, anyway, if they're not aware of the problem. ;) Oct 21 22:29:11 well it's not so much a maemo bug honestly Oct 21 22:29:20 it's an architecture "feature" Oct 21 22:29:48 and when they get upstart+ohm, it will be a matter of signaling to dsp tasks to shut down for suspend to ram Oct 21 22:29:49 Outline the requirements for having s2ram work in Fremantle. Oct 21 22:29:57 nite Oct 21 22:30:09 Just do whatever you need to do to make Eero aware. :P Oct 21 22:30:25 "GeneralAntills told me to write this at gun point"? Oct 21 22:30:28 +e Oct 21 22:30:56 Exactly. Oct 21 22:31:48 added to my todo :P Oct 21 22:32:46 Make sure you CC David and Eero. Oct 21 22:34:38 will you pester them about DSME then? :P i really wonder about nokia is fooling around with these days regarding upstart and ohm though.. and it's a shame their OS work isn't public like HAF Oct 21 22:35:14 Quim said it's waiting on David to find the time to finish up. Oct 21 22:35:41 By finishing up, taking stuff out ... Oct 21 22:36:07 Well, there's been some stuff removed. Oct 21 22:36:13 (which Quim doesn't seem to think is a bad thing) Oct 21 22:36:16 oh, right, i should add "document CAL" to my todo Oct 21 22:36:38 think i have all the stuff to read/write now Oct 21 22:37:02 Stskeeps, qwerty12_N800: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1584 Oct 21 22:37:56 DSME brightness bullshit: http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1261 Oct 21 22:37:59 Thanks Oct 21 22:38:44 Now that's gone and made me pissy about Nokia not participating in Bugzilla. Oct 21 22:38:48 * GeneralAntilles sighs again. Oct 21 22:38:59 * Stskeeps goes write libaltcal or something Oct 21 22:39:35 * lcuk ponders Oct 21 22:39:50 * GeneralAntilles now has room for two more monitors. Oct 21 22:39:56 Too bad I'm out of graphics cards. Oct 21 22:39:59 heh what did u toss Oct 21 22:40:14 Rearranged things a bit and moved one (with the Mac mini) to the bedroom. Oct 21 22:40:31 qwerty12_N800: does any other nokia phones do CAL btw? Oct 21 22:40:35 for a minute there i read that a s bathroom Oct 21 22:40:43 Stskeeps, nah Oct 21 22:40:50 lcuk, if I owned my own home it so totally would be. Oct 21 22:41:04 Home theater in the tub Oct 21 22:41:07 i dont doubt it Oct 21 22:41:45 is liqbase in extras yet? i cant refresh list on either machine Oct 21 22:42:27 Appears so: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/free/l/liqbase/ Oct 21 22:42:35 :) Oct 21 22:43:26 Yes, it has appeared in http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/free/binary-armel/Packages Oct 21 22:46:51 :) again thx qwerty12_N800 Oct 21 22:47:44 heh, just upgraded :) Oct 21 22:48:57 someone should prod maemo ftp guy to upload to extras Oct 21 22:49:40 lcuk, wut is http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5854/liq20081021234506unameafh0.png btw? Oct 21 22:49:52 heh :D Oct 21 22:50:03 an unfinished experiment Oct 21 22:50:28 :p Oct 21 22:51:12 qwerty12_N800, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=232068&postcount=122 Oct 21 22:51:46 and i was meant to replace it last night with something (part of the easter egg) but ran out of time and i had a line drawn :) Oct 21 22:51:48 it can wait Oct 21 22:52:02 i see, thanks Oct 21 22:52:07 heh Oct 21 22:52:21 o/ Oct 21 22:52:39 damn these ascii men Oct 21 22:52:54 doin that in msn messenger got me an old man waving his cane Oct 21 22:53:56 wow, didn't know msn could predict futures Oct 21 22:53:56 qwerty12_N800, is the flash working on the camera btw Oct 21 22:54:02 :D Oct 21 22:54:11 lcuk, yeah :) Oct 21 22:54:13 :D Oct 21 22:54:44 is liqbase multimedia Oct 21 22:54:59 ? Oct 21 22:55:05 oh Oct 21 22:55:08 category for maemo.org listing Oct 21 22:56:00 how do i make a .install file, or dont i Oct 21 22:56:07 you should set brightness to full before doing the flash :D but would take a lot of time Oct 21 22:56:12 You guys think the price of the N800 will lower considerably some time soon? Oct 21 22:56:17 No Oct 21 22:56:25 lcuk, the maemo catalogue can do it for you iurc Oct 21 22:56:33 *iirc Oct 21 22:56:35 Seeing how there's now a fixed supply. Oct 21 22:56:36 yeah thought so Oct 21 22:56:58 lcuk, what section is the package in? Oct 21 22:57:09 if not, edit another page and steal theirs and just change the package name Oct 21 22:57:34 Section: user/other Oct 21 22:57:39 user/other Oct 21 22:57:52 (dpkg -s ftw) Oct 21 22:58:06 i still had the page up you linked to before Oct 21 22:58:22 Still no build numbers in the version string. :P Oct 21 22:59:00 Unrelated, why does nobody ever use the updating field when packaging? Oct 21 22:59:39 lcuk, btw, you dont display text boxes during install right (eg northerners speak funny...)? Oct 21 22:59:51 no.. Oct 21 22:59:58 svn rm ... Oct 21 23:00:08 though the .qwerty ones are there Oct 21 23:00:18 remove the maemo-installer-utils dependecy then Oct 21 23:00:20 hehe Oct 21 23:00:36 To packagers: http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/packaging-stable.html Oct 21 23:01:41 Actually, the "Package maintainer harassment" wiki page sounds like a better and better idea. Oct 21 23:01:46 Oops, i've been formatting my Maemo-Icon-26 wrong Oct 21 23:07:29 Hrm, maybe emails is the wrong approach Oct 21 23:09:42 yes! send a fax! Oct 21 23:12:57 Hehe, well, I'm thinking a general outline of some Maemo packaging quirks is better than a bunch of emails to sent to packagers who aren't using them correctly. Oct 21 23:20:23 night Oct 21 23:27:00 https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/ Oct 21 23:34:01 Shitty first draft: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_packaging#Sections Oct 21 23:34:06 If somebody wants to jump in. Oct 21 23:37:14 So how about this one? http://www.semsons.com/ibhiseaublgp.html Oct 21 23:38:55 hi Oct 21 23:39:03 fie3, why not get the one I linked? Oct 21 23:39:21 <`Mace> what a let down.. vmware esx only supports like 3 types of nics Oct 21 23:39:24 GeneralAntilles, That one is high-sensitivity.... so I can use it inside.... hopefully. Oct 21 23:39:32 Um Oct 21 23:39:42 i-blue 737 works just fine inside. Oct 21 23:39:43 <`Mace> intel ... braodcomm and some other one.. forget which one Oct 21 23:40:08 GeneralAntilles, oh really? Oct 21 23:40:13 Yeah Oct 21 23:40:16 It's a great unit. Oct 21 23:40:20 There's like 8 different 737s Oct 21 23:40:53 greater time for acquisition? Oct 21 23:40:55 There are older ones and newer ones Oct 21 23:40:57 if you're inside? Oct 21 23:41:01 The one on amazon is newer Oct 21 23:41:03 a little Oct 21 23:41:09 It holds a lock fine once it's got it, though. Oct 21 23:41:44 I"m just looking at my options... the prices aren't too much different. Oct 21 23:41:58 GeneralAntilles, it's actually from the same store.. Oct 21 23:42:00 5Hz might not be a bad purchase. Oct 21 23:42:14 5Hz? What does that relate to? Oct 21 23:42:38 It can report 5 times a second Oct 21 23:42:41 Oooo Oct 21 23:42:46 as opposed to just 1Hz with normal units. Oct 21 23:42:47 Higher refresh rate... that's cool. Oct 21 23:43:01 Not any more accurate or faster, per se Oct 21 23:43:05 GeneralAntilles, Have you seen the iphone gps? Oct 21 23:43:06 It's shit. Oct 21 23:43:11 but it'll give you smoother tracks. Oct 21 23:43:23 It's like maybe one refresh every 2 or 3 seconds. Oct 21 23:43:47 HOLY CRAPOLA, my n810 was REPAIRED AND IS COMING HOME!! Oct 21 23:44:10 * Mousey scurries around, busily setting up homecoming party! Oct 21 23:44:47 sorry to interrupt.. i just can't think of another channel that would even remotely care Oct 21 23:45:00 Mousey, what was the issue? Oct 21 23:45:06 fie3: dead screen Oct 21 23:45:11 Mousey, ouch Oct 21 23:45:15 yah, second time Oct 21 23:45:22 cause? Oct 21 23:45:25 Display cable Oct 21 23:45:32 Seems to be an issue with N810s. . . . Oct 21 23:45:37 nah, it was weird, it had weird lines and colors Oct 21 23:45:42 Oh? Oct 21 23:45:46 Well, could still be the cable. Oct 21 23:45:51 GeneralAntilles, WOW http://www.semsons.com/i737blgps5hz.html 2.5m Oct 21 23:45:56 <`Mace> i thought the battery was the cause of such things? Oct 21 23:46:27 now i can think about getting that 32GB MicroSD card i've always wanted Oct 21 23:46:42 `Mace, what does the battery have to do with the LCD? Oct 21 23:46:52 well the stylus is the key Oct 21 23:47:01 hi Oct 21 23:47:02 because it's between the battery and the lcd, warding off evil spirits Oct 21 23:47:11 o-O Oct 21 23:47:12 lol Oct 21 23:47:36 Anyone else have the power button issue? Oct 21 23:49:04 Power button issue? Oct 21 23:49:13 nope, just you Oct 21 23:50:09 power button issue is when your 1 year old keeps pushing hte power button? Oct 21 23:50:46 oh, i thought power button issues were soemthing you got a power button shrink for Oct 21 23:51:10 These days they just give you a pill for it. Oct 21 23:51:12 <`Mace> GeneralAntilles: could have sworn there was a known issue with the battery causing the lcd to do that Oct 21 23:51:22 <`Mace> i have the same problem on my n800 Oct 21 23:51:26 my lcd was seriously b0rk'd Oct 21 23:51:31 <`Mace> lines going across the screen Oct 21 23:51:40 <`Mace> colorful lines Oct 21 23:51:42 well these lines wen down the screen, and only in one corner Oct 21 23:51:50 wen=went Oct 21 23:52:05 <`Mace> have to yank the battery for a bit and put it back in to get it going again Oct 21 23:52:39 i'm gonna be sad if my tablet breaks again, its almost outta warranty! ;_; Oct 21 23:53:48 i can't wait to get it back and mess with the randr stuff and this liqbase thing that keeps getting hyped. Oct 21 23:53:49 =) Oct 21 23:53:56 now if i could just print! Oct 21 23:56:12 GeneralAntilles, When I first got my n810 the power button wouldn't work. Oct 21 23:56:23 I'd sit there and press it for about 10 minutes then it would finally work. Oct 21 23:56:30 Oh, the NOLO issue, maybe? Oct 21 23:56:38 That didn't affect many N810s. Oct 21 23:56:46 It was primarily an N800 issue Oct 21 23:56:56 and it's long be fixed, anyway. Oct 21 23:57:23 I had the problem initially... the first thing I did after I got it turned on was upgrade the software. Oct 21 23:57:27 and still had the problem. Oct 21 23:57:47 Not the NOLO issue then. Oct 21 23:57:49 Never heard of it. Oct 21 23:58:46 :D my easter egg was discovered Oct 21 23:59:40 Apparently the battery had died on it anyway, finally after plugging the power in about 80 times it started charging up then finally when I got it turned on it was corrupted or something.... it would boot and then end up going to a white screen that I remember would like change if you pressed the screen or something like that. I dunno. Oct 22 00:00:14 But I reinstalled the OS again and it finally started working properly. Oct 22 00:00:20 Odd Oct 22 00:02:02 That's what I said! Oct 22 00:02:13 actually it was more like ARRRGGGG>:( Oct 22 00:30:17 WOW! http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=235516&postcount=37 Oct 22 00:30:22 its started, shit Oct 22 01:11:25 Anybody else not get a .desktop when installing fuelpad? Oct 22 01:32:22 Is there a way to figure out who actually uploaded a package? Oct 22 01:34:37 [2008-10-21 23:45:08] Processing package liqbase 0.1.5. Uploader: lcuk, builder: builder1 Oct 22 01:34:39 yes GeneralAntilles Oct 22 01:34:50 look on the summary log for the package Oct 22 01:34:55 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/liqbase_0.1.5/summary.log Oct 22 01:39:01 Clearly ntp-doc was not uploaded by an Ubuntu mailing list. Oct 22 01:39:45 Where the hell is the package? :\ Oct 22 01:42:13 * mgedmin crashes liqbase Oct 22 01:42:25 twice now Oct 22 01:42:40 :O how Oct 22 01:43:33 I tried to draw the lowercase a Oct 22 01:43:38 and it stopped responding to my input Oct 22 01:43:47 the second time, I tried to select a book Oct 22 01:43:52 and it crashed Oct 22 01:44:55 that doesnt sound healthy, could you mail me the log from ~/.liqbase/liqbase.run.log please (unless you restarted liqbase since) Oct 22 01:45:44 restarted Oct 22 01:46:28 dang, if it happens again (i really hope not) could you send it me then please Oct 22 01:46:29 hey, where's less? Oct 22 01:47:03 as in the shell cmd? Oct 22 01:47:09 yup Oct 22 01:47:13 i dunno Oct 22 01:47:17 not in extras, not in extras-devel Oct 22 01:47:23 you should know by now im not a shell guru :P Oct 22 01:47:24 * mgedmin is surprised Oct 22 01:50:55 ok, found it in Oct 22 01:50:56 ok, found it in http://maemo.org/development/tools/ Oct 22 01:51:03 stupid x copy/paste Oct 22 01:51:12 hi Oct 22 01:51:15 mgedmin, copy and paste is a nightmare Oct 22 01:51:15 need help Oct 22 01:51:28 hey there disco_stu, what can we do for you Oct 22 01:51:34 * lcuk feels cheesy now Oct 22 01:51:48 lcuk: i'm running os2008 chinook in my n800 Oct 22 01:52:02 and i want rotate support for the screen Oct 22 01:52:29 so i went trough this guide: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_To:_Enable_screen_rotation_on_OS2008_/_N800 Oct 22 01:52:42 but one download is no longer working Oct 22 01:52:52 so i cant install al the things i need Oct 22 01:53:03 outpo.st/rotate Oct 22 01:53:12 Install Diablo first, though. Oct 22 01:53:19 Hi! does somebody knows why there are some missing debs in the diablo repository? Oct 22 01:53:21 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/e/e2fsprogs/ Oct 22 01:53:28 GeneralAntilles: wow is an honour read you, i see you on itt Oct 22 01:53:38 the things is i dont want to install diablo Oct 22 01:53:42 Why not? Oct 22 01:53:57 Chinook Oct 22 01:53:58 I do not support Chinook anymore. If you still really use it, contact me for further instructions. Oct 22 01:54:16 solca, bizarre Oct 22 01:54:25 GeneralAntilles: i'm a bit busy right now Oct 22 01:54:59 besides i've not read a lot, but i saw some people were having issues with diablo on n800 Oct 22 01:55:14 It works fine here. Oct 22 01:55:22 Browser's a lot faster Oct 22 01:55:32 disco_stu, diablo is fine, but i understand if you dont want to upgrade, but at this time without contacting the site owner you cannot continue with rotation Oct 22 01:55:36 GeneralAntilles: do you know if there is some kind of build logs Oct 22 01:55:37 I wouldn't mess with rotation until you have time to install Diablo, though. Oct 22 01:55:41 maybe it fails to build Oct 22 01:55:46 solca, fwiw, though, e2fsprogs is in Extras. Oct 22 01:56:02 ok.. i'll take your advice Oct 22 01:56:04 solca, that's the SDK repository, those don't go through the builder. Oct 22 01:56:18 btw.. have you tried maemoWoL ? Oct 22 01:56:32 disco_stu, sorry about that and all, but i can understand why it all changed Oct 22 01:56:46 ok, fwiw yesterday I check extrasn and e2fsprogs wasn't there Oct 22 01:57:15 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/e/e2fsprogs/ Oct 22 01:57:15 disco_stu, i dunno, have you tried liqbase http://liqbase.net http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/ Oct 22 01:57:18 Sorry, Extras-devel. Oct 22 01:57:33 lcuk: no Oct 22 01:58:00 cool, can i get my n810 to wake up if it gets a ping? Oct 22 01:58:00 i made maemoWoL, so i was expecting some feedback, but nobody at maemo.org/downloads gives a comment Oct 22 01:58:35 or is it more for a server environment where you want to wakeup your mates computer? Oct 22 01:58:47 lcuk: yo use your IT to turn on other computers in the network Oct 22 01:58:53 yes Oct 22 01:59:01 GeneralAntilles: thanks! there it is Oct 22 01:59:10 disco_stu, put it in Extras! :D Oct 22 01:59:15 You'll get much more notice, then. Oct 22 01:59:17 ~uploading-extras Oct 22 01:59:19 hmm... uploading-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Oct 22 01:59:36 ok Oct 22 01:59:36 * GeneralAntilles doesn't sleep any of his machines. Oct 22 01:59:47 haha Oct 22 01:59:57 i do.. :) Oct 22 02:00:18 wake on lan is nice Oct 22 02:00:35 mgedmin: did you try maemoWoL ? Oct 22 02:00:48 no Oct 22 02:01:09 Well, one machine is a DVR, so it'd just wake itself up whenever the next schedule was set anyway, and the other's a server. Soooo. ;) Oct 22 02:02:02 How do other people feel about user/navigation? Oct 22 02:02:16 Nokia seems to think it should be a valid section Oct 22 02:02:18 GeneralAntilles: how much faster is the browser ? Oct 22 02:02:26 I'm not totally in disagreement. Oct 22 02:02:30 i've tweaked mine.. Oct 22 02:02:46 disco_stu, quite a bit faster than the version in Chinook. Oct 22 02:03:03 GAN800: flash is better too ? Oct 22 02:03:07 Application manager is also a lot faster and nicer. Oct 22 02:03:37 i'll have to give it a try Oct 22 02:04:48 i'll have an spare battery soon Oct 22 02:04:49 Flash benefits from the overall browser improvements, but I don't think the plugin was updated all that much. Oct 22 02:04:52 :) Oct 22 02:05:04 maemoWoL: nice, but if I'm in the same WLAN as the machines, I can usually just walk over and turn them on Oct 22 02:05:18 * mgedmin uses wake on lan to ssh into his home router and wake his desktop on demand Oct 22 02:05:22 Less CPU going to js is more for Flash, etc. ;) Oct 22 02:05:40 anyone played with the most recent fennec alpha? Oct 22 02:05:47 is it really as sluggish as it appeared in that video? Oct 22 02:07:18 mgedmin: yeah, useless for me now Oct 22 02:07:25 mgedmin: maemoWoL: nice, but if I'm in the same WLAN as the machines, I can usually just walk over and turn them on <-- sometimes i dont like to get out from bed just to vnc my moms desk Oct 22 02:07:41 very true Oct 22 02:08:21 and i was angry that the iphone had a wol app and my n800 didnt Oct 22 02:09:02 wow Oct 22 02:09:07 your anger is productive Oct 22 02:09:15 have you tried being angry that your n800 didn't have hardware 3d accel? Oct 22 02:09:45 mgedmin: I'd like to do WoL (vnc/rdesktop) as well Oct 22 02:09:46 mgedmin: i know my limitations.. Oct 22 02:09:51 hahaha Oct 22 02:10:27 cars__: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemowol/ Oct 22 02:10:51 i would like to scale down vnc sessions to fit the lcd Oct 22 02:11:06 this maybe the next thing to work on Oct 22 02:11:33 my english is so rust !! sorry for that Oct 22 02:13:30 i made a little app to work with cidr blocks and masks Oct 22 02:13:41 maybe is useful to anyone Oct 22 02:14:37 chinook was such a nice name, and they had to blew it with 'diablo' Oct 22 02:14:41 i sounds bad Oct 22 02:14:48 i/it/t Oct 22 02:14:51 as a network engineer's tool, a nit has almost everything, except for wired ethernet... Oct 22 02:15:28 I'll add WoL to the list of things (ssh, vnc, etc.) that I need to learn how to use and install for this to be really fun. Oct 22 02:16:10 cars__: you can add openvpn, pptp and hamachi Oct 22 02:16:14 :) Oct 22 02:16:34 mgedmin: what tools do you use for cidr tasks ? Oct 22 02:16:43 mgedmin: speaking about the IT Oct 22 02:16:49 Hamachi works on the NIT? Oct 22 02:16:53 cars__: yes Oct 22 02:17:10 disco_stu: ssh ;-) Oct 22 02:17:21 * mgedmin is not a real network engineer Oct 22 02:17:26 hahaha ! Oct 22 02:17:29 and my networks usually are /24 Oct 22 02:18:30 By the way, is there a consistent way of making the finger on-screen keyboard to display on my n810? Oct 22 02:18:37 Center dpad Oct 22 02:18:46 But the N810 Oct 22 02:18:47 sux Oct 22 02:18:49 so, no. Oct 22 02:18:58 Just gotta get the feel for the thumb touch down. Oct 22 02:19:12 GeneralAntilles: why the n810 sux ? Oct 22 02:19:27 Terrible dpad location. Oct 22 02:19:30 I've had it display a couple times, but never with any consistency. Oct 22 02:19:39 GeneralAntilles: oh Oct 22 02:20:01 you have to slide to acces the key Oct 22 02:20:17 Which means you can't use it to activate the finger keyboard. Oct 22 02:20:31 i see Oct 22 02:20:45 But it's happened before with the keyboard closed, so there has to be another way of doing it. Oct 22 02:20:49 thumb press on an input field is supposed to show the thumb kb Oct 22 02:21:06 mgedmin: that never worked to me in my n800 Oct 22 02:21:13 never ever.. Oct 22 02:21:16 but really I found that I needed more force than I was comfortable using to get that to reliably work Oct 22 02:21:36 so I don't use the thumb kb Oct 22 02:22:52 disco_stu, Diablo fixes that. Oct 22 02:23:09 GeneralAntilles: :) Oct 22 02:23:50 Couldn't there be a way to fool the OS to think that the keyboard is closed when it's open and then pressing the center dpad? Oct 22 02:23:54 GeneralAntilles: is suspend available.. or you manage the same way that in Chinook Oct 22 02:24:14 Suspend? Oct 22 02:24:22 You mean like s2ram or suspend to disk? Oct 22 02:24:30 isn't there a gconf key that some daemon toggles whenever you slide|unslide? Oct 22 02:24:38 Yes Oct 22 02:24:44 mce or dsme Oct 22 02:25:18 GeneralAntilles: some kind of mechanism to suspend the NIT Oct 22 02:25:30 There's locking or soft poweroff. Oct 22 02:25:42 They both lock input, don't really suspend things, though. Oct 22 02:26:28 i wanted rotation :'( Oct 22 02:26:48 anyone want to buy an n810? Oct 22 02:27:18 GeneralAntilles: where can i get themes for the NIT Oct 22 02:27:28 downloads.maemo.org Oct 22 02:27:31 Or could I remap the center-dpad key to something else? If so, could that setting be toggled upon keyboard slideout? Oct 22 02:27:32 and there are some scattered about itT. Oct 22 02:27:49 GeneralAntilles: i've found two or three Oct 22 02:27:57 there arent any more ? Oct 22 02:27:58 There aren't that many, really. Oct 22 02:28:04 Plankton and LCARS are the two biggest departures. Oct 22 02:28:19 nuvoclear2 is the one i use Oct 22 02:30:08 Has there been any success with remapping keys like this? Oct 22 02:31:06 cars__: i've not tested.. but i shouldnt be a problem Oct 22 02:31:12 we are running Linux :) Oct 22 02:33:41 disco_stu: Any suggestions on where I can start? Oct 22 02:34:04 xmodmap Oct 22 02:35:16 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_SetupKeyboard/ Oct 22 02:35:24 you can read this Oct 22 02:36:33 * GeneralAntilles is done harassing package maintainers for the night. Oct 22 02:37:09 * GeneralAntilles still needs to bug INdT about Maemo-Display-Name. Oct 22 02:37:17 disco_stu, that's pretty old. does it still apply? Oct 22 02:37:36 i think yes.. Oct 22 02:40:27 GeneralAntilles: in wich country do you live ? Oct 22 02:40:36 Florida, USA Oct 22 02:41:00 nice place Oct 22 02:41:12 Finally cooling down enough to turn off the AC Oct 22 02:41:19 I sometimes wish Florida were a country, then we wouldn't have to worry about hanging chads Oct 22 02:41:34 GeneralAntilles: here summer is beginning Oct 22 02:41:36 :) Oct 22 02:42:09 summatusmentis, Florida gets a bad rap from a few idiots. Oct 22 02:42:20 The state is, by and large, a nice place with nice people. Oct 22 02:42:29 GeneralAntilles: all the old ones? Oct 22 02:43:06 * GeneralAntilles is too bored for trolling. Oct 22 02:44:26 no, I enjoyed FL while I was there, but I got tired of the excessive amount of tourism stuff on the beaches Oct 22 02:44:28 GeneralAntilles: i daily see in the news that USA has a lot of economics trouble Oct 22 02:44:42 or is a lie ? Oct 22 02:44:53 Eh, you wouldn't know it on the street. Oct 22 02:45:00 The financial market aint doin' so hot. Oct 22 02:45:07 But it's not just the US. Oct 22 02:45:52 The UK bailed out their own banking system to the tune of £400 billion. Oct 22 02:46:07 i want a bail out Oct 22 02:49:27 nobody here from argentina ? Oct 22 02:49:40 Lot from Brazil Oct 22 02:49:49 pythones Oct 22 02:49:56 pythoners.. Oct 22 02:50:05 disco_stu, johnx: I'm checking out that keyboard documentation, but the xmodmap download I see is for OS2007. Oct 22 02:50:27 command line programs from os2007 should probably work on os2008 Oct 22 02:50:42 GeneralAntilles: Don't forget Iceland. They're bankrupt. Oct 22 02:50:54 johnx: OK, I'll give it a shot. Oct 22 02:51:09 Nokia-N800-51-3:~# apt-cache search xmodmap Oct 22 02:51:09 xmodmap - X input map modification Oct 22 02:51:35 #apt-get install xmodmap Oct 22 02:51:45 should do the trick :P Oct 22 02:52:22 hehe, I forgot to try the obvious. Oct 22 02:52:52 GeneralAntilles: what ideas colud you give.. for a new app for maemo Oct 22 02:53:02 GeneralAntilles: something we're a missing.. Oct 22 02:53:09 i dont know Oct 22 02:53:47 lardman & co could use some GUI help with maemo-barcode **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 22 02:59:57 2008