**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 25 02:59:57 2008
Oct 25 03:06:32 <Xamusk> ./gpsbabel -i garmin,get_posn -f /dev/ttyUSB0 -o kml -F garmin-data.kml
Oct 25 03:07:27 <l7> weird, i found mplayer actually using more CPU to playback mp4 than osso-media
Oct 25 03:08:12 <Xamusk> l7, maybe osso-media uses those "DSP instructions"
Oct 25 03:09:04 <Xamusk> I can't connect to that frigging GPS!
Oct 25 03:09:20 <Xamusk> what can I do with maemo-mapper to connect it?
Oct 25 03:09:36 <johnx> so gpsbabel works on it?
Oct 25 03:09:44 <Xamusk> johnx, yes
Oct 25 03:09:54 <Xamusk> with the command above
Oct 25 03:10:20 <johnx> hmm, maybe get gpsd to talk to it then have maemo mapper connect to gpsd?
Oct 25 03:10:32 <Xamusk> I don't know if mapper uses something from gpsbabel or if it assumes the gps talks NMEA or something like that
Oct 25 03:10:40 <Xamusk> johnx, I already tried it
Oct 25 03:11:06 <Xamusk> johnx, I run gpsd in nondaemon mode, but it simply says nothing, and the mapper still doesn't find it
Oct 25 03:11:16 <Xamusk> it keeps searching
Oct 25 03:11:40 <johnx> I really don't know
Oct 25 03:13:33 <GeneralAntilles> You need to initialize gpsd first.
Oct 25 03:13:42 <GeneralAntilles> Which is why Maemo Mapper uses Bluetooth with no MAC.
Oct 25 03:14:40 <Xamusk> GeneralAntilles, I try to run it manually, but I get nowhere: gpsd -n -N -F /tmp/.gpsd_ctrl_sock /dev/ttyUSB0
Oct 25 03:14:51 <Xamusk> running as root
Oct 25 03:15:40 <Xamusk> GeneralAntilles, I don't see how else I could "initialize" it
Oct 25 03:16:03 <GeneralAntilles> maemobluetooth has to start it.
Oct 25 03:16:16 <GeneralAntilles> I believe, anyway.
Oct 25 03:16:24 <Xamusk> my gps is not bluetooth
Oct 25 03:17:02 <GeneralAntilles> Nevermind
Oct 25 03:17:29 <Xamusk> it's serial through a usb-serial cable
Oct 25 03:19:56 <Xamusk> it's a configuration similar to this one: http://www.piku.org.uk/book/export/html/139
Oct 25 03:20:21 <Xamusk> but I want it to work with mapper
Oct 25 03:25:38 <fiekia> maemo mapper can do routs?
Oct 25 03:25:51 <johnx> as long as you have an inet connection
Oct 25 03:31:31 <l7> or openstreet data right?
Oct 25 03:31:49 <johnx> I don't think maemo mapper can route from osm maps since it uses the bitmap osm maps
Oct 25 03:31:55 <johnx> (someone correct me if things have changed)
Oct 25 03:32:04 <l7> oh
Oct 25 03:32:22 <l7> can any programs for the maemo handle routing offline?
Oct 25 03:33:04 <johnx> the included "Map" program can (Wayfinfer Maps or somesuch)
Oct 25 03:33:27 <l7> oh that thing
Oct 25 03:33:39 <l7> i wonder if they have improved it since last year, i never touch it
Oct 25 03:33:52 <johnx> yeah, I think it got updated since then
Oct 25 03:34:17 <johnx> also, I think navit can use osm for routing
Oct 25 03:34:20 <l7> i don't get it, is maemo giving us that commerical app for free?
Oct 25 03:34:54 <GAN800> The app, not the routing.
Oct 25 03:34:58 <l7> oh
Oct 25 03:35:11 <l7> routing requires a subscription then?
Oct 25 03:36:16 <johnx> if you're in the US, an app that can use TIGER maps should be able to do some limited routing IIUC
Oct 25 03:37:00 <Xamusk> can't mapper use google maps for routing?
Oct 25 03:37:09 <johnx> only with an inet connection
Oct 25 03:37:09 <AstralStorm> hehe
Oct 25 03:37:16 <AstralStorm> if OSM vector data is available directly...
Oct 25 03:37:37 <AstralStorm> we could somewhat rewrite mapper with cairo to draw the vector part
Oct 25 03:37:45 <l7> which app do you use to connec to TIGER maps?
Oct 25 03:37:50 <AstralStorm> (or some better engine like AGG)
Oct 25 03:37:50 <l7> connect
Oct 25 03:38:02 <Xamusk> well, doesn't Nokia maps for symbian phones route offline?
Oct 25 03:38:24 <AstralStorm> Xamusk: they have to get maps in vector form
Oct 25 03:38:28 <johnx> Xamusk, yes, check your scrollback :P
Oct 25 03:38:33 <AstralStorm> then, standard routing algorithms work
Oct 25 03:38:52 <GAN800> AstralStorm, I'd like to see vector support on Maemo Mapper.
Oct 25 03:39:03 <AstralStorm> well, as I said, just vectorize the bitmap piecewise for extra bonus
Oct 25 03:39:25 <AstralStorm> Google could also provide vectorized maps, but then they wouldn't get all that query analysis bonus
Oct 25 03:40:02 <Xamusk> I thought google maps did routing offline
Oct 25 03:40:07 <AstralStorm> wrong!
Oct 25 03:40:08 <Xamusk> maybe with javascript
Oct 25 03:40:14 <AstralStorm> no, they do routing online
Oct 25 03:40:27 <Xamusk> because I don't see much transfers when I change my route
Oct 25 03:40:35 <AstralStorm> you send them point A, B, C... Z
Oct 25 03:40:48 <GAN800> Maemo Mapper needs an overhaul to handle different map formats more gracefully
Oct 25 03:40:48 <AstralStorm> and they do routing online
Oct 25 03:40:56 <AstralStorm> mhm
Oct 25 03:40:59 <AstralStorm> not an easy job
Oct 25 03:41:14 <AstralStorm> and it needs better db format
Oct 25 03:41:14 <GAN800> The talk on the lists was to rasterize vector maps on the fly to feed to Maemo Mapper. :/
Oct 25 03:41:21 <AstralStorm> gdbm is notoriously heavy
Oct 25 03:41:31 <AstralStorm> GAN800: WRONG!
Oct 25 03:41:37 <AstralStorm> this is the wrong way to do it
Oct 25 03:41:48 <AstralStorm> it's easier to vectorize raster maps usually
Oct 25 03:41:55 <AstralStorm> and then, you can analyze them better
Oct 25 03:41:58 <GAN800> Maybe we can talk Nokia into doing some of the grunt work for the Fremantle Stars
Oct 25 03:42:11 <GAN800> AstralStorm, thus, the :/
Oct 25 03:42:28 <AstralStorm> it is logical *if* they add route planning plugins
Oct 25 03:42:40 <AstralStorm> then a plugin could be used to rasterize a vector map
Oct 25 03:42:43 <ShadowJK_> Nokia maps for symbian atleast has the decency to try route offline first, and then asks you for permission to go ask the server :-)
Oct 25 03:42:45 <AstralStorm> and provide routing data
Oct 25 03:43:17 <AstralStorm> ShadowJK_: there's no offline routing in mapper. At all.
Oct 25 03:43:24 <AstralStorm> so the point is moot
Oct 25 03:43:29 <ShadowJK_> yes
Oct 25 03:43:38 <ShadowJK_> But Xamusk asked about Nokia Maps
Oct 25 03:43:42 <AstralStorm> but then, you might flag some plugins as "online"
Oct 25 03:43:45 <AstralStorm> ahha
Oct 25 03:43:59 <AstralStorm> there exists such an app for Maemo? I don't think so
Oct 25 03:44:04 <ShadowJK_> no, does not
Oct 25 03:44:08 <ShadowJK_> it's for S60
Oct 25 03:44:12 <AstralStorm> yup
Oct 25 03:44:41 <ShadowJK_> I wouldn't mind wayfinder connecting more frequently to internet to download all the speed cameras nearby :-)
Oct 25 03:44:42 <AstralStorm> so, the work would be to make Mapper into just an UI
Oct 25 03:45:05 <AstralStorm> for the Map and Routing plugins
Oct 25 03:45:07 <Xamusk> I wouldn't like that
Oct 25 03:45:17 <Xamusk> data plans around here are pretty expensive
Oct 25 03:45:26 <AstralStorm> hehe, so they're here
Oct 25 03:45:37 <AstralStorm> I'll be getting one flatrate anyway
Oct 25 03:46:15 <AstralStorm> (110 PLN for 6 GB + wifi APs of that operator)
Oct 25 03:46:41 <AstralStorm> pity they don't do GB scaling
Oct 25 03:47:07 <AstralStorm> about 30 Euro
Oct 25 03:47:17 <AstralStorm> maybe 25
Oct 25 03:47:52 <AstralStorm> 29 today
Oct 25 03:48:20 <Xamusk> AstralStorm, here it's 1GB plan (5GB download limit) for what would be equivalent to 129 PLN
Oct 25 03:48:33 <AstralStorm> ouch
Oct 25 03:48:35 <Xamusk> (PLN estimates by google)
Oct 25 03:49:06 <AstralStorm> but then, that was the best flatrate of the three
Oct 25 03:50:19 <AstralStorm> and there's the problem of not high salaries :)
Oct 25 03:52:34 <AstralStorm> can't wait till voice and data will get unified
Oct 25 03:52:37 <Xamusk> here the minimum wage by law (and thus what most of the population receives) is the equivalent of 573 PLN
Oct 25 03:52:57 <Xamusk> so a data plan like that is pretty prohibitive
Oct 25 03:52:59 <AstralStorm> poorer country...
Oct 25 03:53:02 <AstralStorm> yes
Oct 25 03:53:52 * ShadowJK_ has 2mbit unlimited for 10€ per month :-)
Oct 25 03:54:05 <AstralStorm> here the median is close to 1800 PLN
Oct 25 03:54:11 <AstralStorm> ShadowJK_: you lucky guy
Oct 25 03:54:13 <AstralStorm> I want that
Oct 25 03:54:20 <ShadowJK_> the operators had price war
Oct 25 03:54:36 <AstralStorm> doesn't such a plan make phone calls mostly obsolete?
Oct 25 03:55:00 <AstralStorm> like, allowing to buy a really cheap VoIP
Oct 25 03:55:36 <ShadowJK_> yep, same operator coincidentally offers VoIP service too, and provides instructions for how to make it work on the Nokia cellphones' built-in VoIP feature
Oct 25 03:55:37 <AstralStorm> really, phone numbers should go away, instead we should get IPv6 linked to DNS
Oct 25 03:55:52 <ShadowJK_> they used to have UMA but not anymore :/
Oct 25 03:56:17 <AstralStorm> I mean, like, you could get addresses like <oldnumber>.call.yourisp.whatever
Oct 25 03:56:26 <AstralStorm> with autocompletion, could be viable
Oct 25 03:56:46 <AstralStorm> and then, normal names too :>
Oct 25 03:57:09 <AstralStorm> IP domination is the final phase of 3GPP project
Oct 25 03:57:15 <ShadowJK_> I moved my parents' landline to VoIP, with a standalone VoIP phone. The old number still works for people calling with regular phones, but you can also put in number@sip.isp.fi and it works
Oct 25 03:57:29 <l7> man, the LCARS theme is great
Oct 25 03:57:31 <AstralStorm> yes, something like that
Oct 25 03:57:34 <AstralStorm> but no need for @
Oct 25 03:57:48 <AstralStorm> because each device (3GPP LTE) is required to have an IP
Oct 25 03:57:49 <ShadowJK_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network Essentially this means your phone can roam between WLAN and 3G/GSM :)
Oct 25 03:57:50 <l7> i'm glad it's bugs are fixed
Oct 25 03:59:39 <AstralStorm> then, either SIP will have to be firewalled off... or cell operators will have to compete
Oct 25 04:00:07 <AstralStorm> the first is automatic if NAT is required (IPv4 doesn't have enough space for all those cell phones)
Oct 25 04:00:30 <ShadowJK_> My operator is giving public IPs still. It's kinda funny, I have 3 public IPs right now
Oct 25 04:00:43 <AstralStorm> mine too
Oct 25 04:00:45 <ShadowJK_> smtp might be firewalled but everything else is open
Oct 25 04:00:52 <AstralStorm> I want my IPv6
Oct 25 04:01:02 <AstralStorm> they could send one too
Oct 25 04:01:19 <AstralStorm> get an allocation, their system does support IPv6 (I have inside sources)
Oct 25 04:01:37 <ShadowJK_> Nokia wants IPv6 :-)
Oct 25 04:01:44 <ShadowJK_> It saves battery power
Oct 25 04:01:57 <AstralStorm> every mobile device
Oct 25 04:02:16 <AstralStorm> and if every device is to be seen on the network... then IPv6 is a must
Oct 25 04:02:26 <AstralStorm> otherwise we'll drown in NATs
Oct 25 04:04:15 <Xamusk> too bad nobody is really pushing for IPv6 hard enough
Oct 25 04:04:28 <AstralStorm> cell ops will
Oct 25 04:04:34 <oilinki> i suppose ipv6 will come only if the big network operators put different prices for ipv4 and ipv6.
Oct 25 04:04:35 <AstralStorm> once 3GPP is finished
Oct 25 04:04:45 <Xamusk> and even then, it would probably get us into some sort of IP monopoly anyway
Oct 25 04:05:05 <AstralStorm> IP monopoly? there is one already
Oct 25 04:05:05 <orifice> is there a way I can retrieve wep keys off an n810 ?
Oct 25 04:05:07 <AstralStorm> called IETF ;P
Oct 25 04:05:32 <AstralStorm> orifice: monitor mode is supposed to somewhat work
Oct 25 04:05:35 <oilinki> for example ipv6 traffic would be 20% cheaper. that might let the isps to think it further
Oct 25 04:05:37 <orifice> not hacking wep keys or anything.  Just the saved ones
Oct 25 04:05:50 <orifice> When I upgraded to Diablo I lost all my saved wep keys
Oct 25 04:05:58 <AstralStorm> ah, that... they're in gconf
Oct 25 04:06:02 <orifice> ahh ok
Oct 25 04:06:03 <orifice> thanks
Oct 25 04:07:31 <AstralStorm> ipv6 "traffic" cannot be made "cheaper" globally
Oct 25 04:07:44 <AstralStorm> it actually uses a tiny bit more bandwidth
Oct 25 04:08:17 <Xamusk> gotta go
Oct 25 04:08:27 <AstralStorm> so, the only driver would be reducing infrastructure
Oct 25 04:08:31 <AstralStorm> like number of routers
Oct 25 04:08:55 <AstralStorm> and simplifying topology, lowering latency
Oct 25 04:09:18 <oilinki> senores does this make any sense? i want to charge nokia phone, n810 and gps-module in car. i'm planing to put an 12v->5v (2A) transformer which will feed usb-hub (5v/2A) and then charge the devices from there?
Oct 25 04:09:19 <AstralStorm> having to pass 10 NATs isn't too fast
Oct 25 04:09:48 <AstralStorm> n810 can't be charged over USB, unless you grab that USB->Nokia plug charger
Oct 25 04:10:14 <disco_stu> AstralStorm: nat does not overhead in performance
Oct 25 04:10:15 <oilinki> AstralStorm: the idea is to push isps to use ipv6. therefore make ipv6 cheaper eg transfer the money from ipv4 to ipv6
Oct 25 04:10:23 <AstralStorm> disco_stu: wrong
Oct 25 04:10:27 <AstralStorm> it adds latency
Oct 25 04:10:30 <AstralStorm> some ms
Oct 25 04:10:37 <disco_stu> AstralStorm: i m not wrong man
Oct 25 04:10:42 <AstralStorm> especially if busy
Oct 25 04:10:46 <disco_stu> naa
Oct 25 04:10:51 <AstralStorm> usually you pass about 3 nats
Oct 25 04:10:58 <AstralStorm> which isn't any appreciable amount
Oct 25 04:11:11 <oilinki> for the charger i tought that i can use the usb->nokia plug converter directly like this http://www.walrus.com/~raphael/html/usb_charge.html
Oct 25 04:11:11 <AstralStorm> if 3GPP LTE is to run, you'll pass many more
Oct 25 04:11:37 <AstralStorm> oilinki: yes, but n810 can drain up to 850 mA
Oct 25 04:11:51 <AstralStorm> so in some very rare situations, the charger won't charge ;P
Oct 25 04:12:39 <AstralStorm> disco_stu: I'm not talking like NAT for 3 machines
Oct 25 04:12:41 <oilinki> AstralStorm: ok. but if it's 2A, then there should be some power left for phone and gps
Oct 25 04:12:44 <AstralStorm> but one with 100s of clients
Oct 25 04:12:52 <disco_stu> who said 3 machines
Oct 25 04:12:53 <AstralStorm> oilinki: uhm...
Oct 25 04:12:56 <disco_stu> the hell..
Oct 25 04:12:59 <AstralStorm> USB limits current to 0.5A
Oct 25 04:13:00 <disco_stu> nat 100 times
Oct 25 04:13:02 <disco_stu> is the same
Oct 25 04:13:08 <AstralStorm> no, it's not
Oct 25 04:13:16 <AstralStorm> it has to inspect every packet, change the IP address in it
Oct 25 04:13:19 <AstralStorm> that is time
Oct 25 04:13:21 <oilinki> currently i use 12v-> 220v-> 5v  in the car, which doesn't make any sense ;)
Oct 25 04:13:26 <AstralStorm> and store info about state
Oct 25 04:13:44 <oilinki> ah. i did not know about the 0.5A limit.
Oct 25 04:13:45 <disco_stu> that is done at speedlight
Oct 25 04:13:56 <disco_stu> lightspeed or whatever
Oct 25 04:13:58 <AstralStorm> yes yes, check it yourself
Oct 25 04:14:10 <AstralStorm> send it some bilion of packets
Oct 25 04:14:23 <AstralStorm> see what's the average latency on output
Oct 25 04:14:46 <AstralStorm> btw, LTE is supposed to do 200 Mb upload
Oct 25 04:14:59 <AstralStorm> and 300 Mb download
Oct 25 04:15:15 <AstralStorm> so you need a nat of 1GbE class
Oct 25 04:15:17 <GeneralAntilles> The Nokia car charger is ~390mA
Oct 25 04:15:23 <GeneralAntilles> So 500mA shouldn't be a huge issue.
Oct 25 04:15:25 <AstralStorm> for just one happy hacker
Oct 25 04:15:35 <AstralStorm> GeneralAntilles: and it doesn't manage to charge the battery
Oct 25 04:15:36 <AstralStorm> I checked
Oct 25 04:15:39 <AstralStorm> :)
Oct 25 04:15:57 <AstralStorm> you need at least 450 mA to charge the battery on light use
Oct 25 04:16:09 <GeneralAntilles> It does here.
Oct 25 04:16:17 <AstralStorm> if you disable wifi, then yes
Oct 25 04:16:28 <GeneralAntilles> Not sure who'd be using wifi in a car
Oct 25 04:16:39 <AstralStorm> you have a point :>
Oct 25 04:16:44 <AstralStorm> bluetooth eats less power
Oct 25 04:17:23 <oilinki> i use sometimes with joikuspot.. but it will drain the e61i battery very fast
Oct 25 04:18:09 <AstralStorm> disco_stu: what's more, with LTE you'll have one huge NAT, or at least a tree of few such
Oct 25 04:18:35 <oilinki> therefore nowdays it's bt-connection
Oct 25 04:18:55 <AstralStorm> we need 3G LTE. Really :>
Oct 25 04:19:01 <AstralStorm> uhm, that is, 4G
Oct 25 04:19:25 <AstralStorm> this is almost as efficient as bluetooth, while having wide range
Oct 25 04:23:20 <oilinki> I would be happy for a good edge connection in this country :)
Oct 25 04:27:55 <AstralStorm> hehe, here, edge is widely available almost everywhere
Oct 25 04:28:42 <AstralStorm> about 99,1% of country
Oct 25 04:28:59 <AstralStorm> 99,52% population
Oct 25 04:29:32 <oilinki> I spend tihs week in Phuket where I'm  going to move soon.  there the best connection I got was gprs with 10kBps download speed. lot's of places without any connectivity.
Oct 25 04:29:59 <oilinki> well need to try with another operator if the connectivity would be better.
Oct 25 05:10:43 <zackeroo> how do you extract a .tar.gz ?
Oct 25 05:13:20 <oilinki> zackeroo: gunzip a.tar.gz  and then tar xvf a.tar ?
Oct 25 05:14:06 <bef0rd> tar -xvzf file.tar.gz
Oct 25 05:15:06 <zackeroo> no frontend?
Oct 25 05:15:25 <zackeroo> you have to use the terminal for extracting a file?
Oct 25 05:16:50 <bef0rd> I'd use the terminal anyway
Oct 25 05:16:53 <zackeroo> does anyone know if Roadmap is good for anywhere else in the world but the US and Canada?
Oct 25 05:17:12 <bef0rd> there is a front end , its called xarchiver I believe
Oct 25 05:17:31 <zackeroo> yeah .. tried that and its not working ...
Oct 25 05:18:00 <bef0rd> that's why I prefer the terminal.
Oct 25 05:18:26 <zackeroo> ok
Oct 25 05:18:35 <zackeroo> does anyone here use Roadmap?
Oct 25 05:19:00 <oilinki> zackeroo: what is the roadmap for?
Oct 25 05:19:41 <zackeroo> GPS
Oct 25 05:19:47 <oilinki> and how does it differ of the maemo mapper?
Oct 25 05:20:36 <zackeroo> seems like its made for GPS .... and I am trying to find one that does Voice
Oct 25 05:21:02 <oilinki> zackeroo: have you checked maemo mapper yet?
Oct 25 05:21:07 <zackeroo> yes
Oct 25 05:21:09 <zackeroo> no voice
Oct 25 05:21:20 <zackeroo> and I have flite installed
Oct 25 05:21:26 <zackeroo> and enabled
Oct 25 05:21:36 <zackeroo> and, yes, it is working in the terminal
Oct 25 05:22:06 <oilinki> hmm. i had a voice before with maemomapper and flite. now i have not cheked as the voice was too quiet for car usage
Oct 25 05:23:12 <zackeroo> were you using Diablo?
Oct 25 05:23:52 <oilinki> can not remember when i used with flite. could be before diablo.
Oct 25 05:24:00 <zackeroo> yeah
Oct 25 05:24:31 <oilinki> i really like the maemo mapper, but it has it faults as well. using pois is not very convinient
Oct 25 05:24:36 <zackeroo> its really something ... because I upgrade to gain features, but I also loose features in the process
Oct 25 05:28:04 <zackeroo> I really like mapper ... but without voice it is of no use to me
Oct 25 05:28:47 <zackeroo> I cannot be bothered to have to read tiny text on a screen while driving ...
Oct 25 05:28:55 <zackeroo> its also dangerous
Oct 25 05:37:37 <ShadowJK_> where can I get this lcars theme?
Oct 25 05:39:30 <l7> ShadowJK_: http://synthesize.us/LCARS_PADD/changelog
Oct 25 07:30:28 <lopz> night
Oct 25 08:14:22 <Jaffa> morning, all
Oct 25 08:38:51 * camel_liu look around
Oct 25 08:41:40 * Jaffa sticks a more concrete version of his package categorisation thoughts from yesterday on http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories#Defined_top-level_categories_.26_application-specific_subcategories
Oct 25 08:42:29 * qwerty12 would like a user/internet but user/network sounds good
Oct 25 08:45:03 <Jaffa> qwerty12: Samba clients wouldn't count as 'Internet' ;-)
Oct 25 08:45:05 <Jaffa> (hopefully)
Oct 25 08:46:28 <qwerty12> Jaffa: I'm not thinking about Samba clients. I wanted to put transmission in user/internet but was forced to put it in user/other because the "allowed" categories available at the moment suck so I was forced to put it in user/other
Oct 25 08:46:38 <qwerty12> -so I was forced to put it in user/other
Oct 25 08:46:47 <qwerty12> (Didn't realise I was repeating myself >.<)
Oct 25 08:47:17 <Jaffa> qwerty12: indeed, but my point was there are networky things which don't fit anywhere else, but aren't 'Internet' related. The i18n could always be 'Internet & networking'
Oct 25 08:48:26 <qwerty12> Ah, yes, I get you now. Yeah, I agree, user/networking is a better choice when looking at it.
Oct 25 08:49:20 <GeneralAntilles> I wonder what Nokia's plans are for Fremantle's application menu.
Oct 25 08:49:40 <GeneralAntilles> It'd be nice to have enough top level folders to have them match the categories reasonably well.
Oct 25 08:50:47 <camel_liu> I'm using maemo 4.1.1, and testing maemo SDK installation according to it reference manual
Oct 25 08:50:47 <camel_liu> When run 'Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -extension Composite', I got below ouput:
Oct 25 08:50:47 <camel_liu> expected keysym, got XF86KbdLightOnOff: line 70 of pc
Oct 25 08:50:47 <camel_liu> expected keysym, got XF86KbdBrightnessDown: line 71 of pc
Oct 25 08:50:47 <camel_liu> expected keysym, got XF86KbdBrightnessUp: line 72 of pc
Oct 25 08:50:48 <camel_liu> expected keysym, got XF86KbdLightOnOff: line 70 of pc
Oct 25 08:50:50 <camel_liu> expected keysym, got XF86KbdBrightnessDown: line 71 of pc
Oct 25 08:50:52 <camel_liu> expected keysym, got XF86KbdBrightnessUp: line 72 of pc
Oct 25 08:50:54 <camel_liu> How to resolve it?
Oct 25 08:51:43 <qwerty12> Does it matter? It still works fine.
Oct 25 08:53:12 <camel_liu> Yes, it still works, but it bothers me.
Oct 25 08:53:28 <camel_liu> I want everything be perfect.
Oct 25 08:54:48 <camel_liu> And when I Ctrl+C it, it returns below:
Oct 25 08:54:49 <camel_liu> FreeFontPath: FPE "/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc" refcount is 2, should be 1; fixing.
Oct 25 08:54:49 <camel_liu> What about this?
Oct 25 08:54:52 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: agreed
Oct 25 08:56:43 <camel_liu> I want to why these messages occur and how to resolve them. Anybody knows?
Oct 25 08:57:41 <usicow> I've got a strange problem.. when I try to write files on /media/mmc1 I get the error that the file system is in read-only mode.. how can I verify this and fix it?
Oct 25 08:59:14 <qwerty12> Running "mount" would tell you if it's in RO (afaik) and dmesg says if the device has been mounted ro. But you can run fsck as root to fix it.
Oct 25 08:59:25 <qwerty12> s/RO/ro
Oct 25 08:59:37 <qwerty12> s/fsck/fsck.whatever
Oct 25 08:59:47 * GeneralAntilles files a bug.
Oct 25 09:00:49 <usicow> ok.. mount looks like it certainly is in RO mode.
Oct 25 09:00:51 <usicow> /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat (ro,nosuid,nodev,noexec,noatime,nodiratime,uid=29999,fmask=0133,dmask=0000,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,utf8)
Oct 25 09:01:01 * qwerty12 vows never to "compile" po4a in scratchbox again. Fucking dependencies...
Oct 25 09:02:21 <usicow> using dmesg it says '[  654.843750] FAT: Filesystem panic (dev mmcblk0p1)'
Oct 25 09:02:46 <camel_liu> to qwerty12: Do you have any idea about the problem of Xephyr?
Oct 25 09:03:08 <qwerty12> camel_liu: Like I said when you PM'ed me:
Oct 25 09:03:09 <qwerty12> qwerty12> Nope
Oct 25 09:03:09 <qwerty12> <qwerty12> The messages have never bothered me so I've never bothered looking
Oct 25 09:04:35 <qwerty12> usicow: become root with whatever method, run umount /media/mmc1 ; fsck.vfat -a /dev/mmcblk0p1 ; fsck.vfat -r /dev/mmcblk0p1
Oct 25 09:05:19 <usicow> qwerty12: ok, I'll do that.. but what does that do? :) I'm just curious why this has happened.
Oct 25 09:06:37 <qwerty12> usicow: Unmounts the memory card so fsck can do its stuff and repair it :). First invocation of fsck repairs it automatically and then the second invocation of fsck asks you what option to do to repair because I noticed in automatic mode, it skips things it wants an answer for
Oct 25 09:06:59 <qwerty12> The knob hasn't heard of a pastebin...
Oct 25 09:07:15 <qwerty12> He attempted to send me his scratchbox log over a pm
Oct 25 09:07:17 <qwerty12> TF
Oct 25 09:07:19 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Oct 25 09:09:31 <usicow> qwerty12: ok.. there was another thing that I noticed, maybe it happened at the same time - I'm not sure.. but I install maemo-pan, and I think after that, my wireless router no longer gave the static IP that it used to. As if the mac address changed or something.. could that be possible?
Oct 25 09:09:39 <GeneralAntilles> http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3822
Oct 25 09:09:45 <GeneralAntilles> itt
Oct 25 09:10:50 <qwerty12> usicow: maemo-pan shouldn't interfere with that, I have maemo-pan and I still get my ip's fine
Oct 25 09:11:35 <usicow> strange...
Oct 25 09:11:41 <qwerty12> usicow: Are you using the feature of the router where it assigns a specific ip via dhcp to a device or using a real static ip?
Oct 25 09:12:03 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, there is a lot to be said for going with the freedesktop.org specification
Oct 25 09:12:12 <usicow> qwerty12: the feature where the router assigns a specific ip via DHCP (I assume based on mac address)
Oct 25 09:12:53 <qwerty12> usicow: yeah, it's still getting done via dhcp then as opposed to being a real static ip
Oct 25 09:13:56 <camel_liu> af-sb-init.sh returns below:
Oct 25 09:13:56 <camel_liu> [sbox-DIABLO_X86: ~] > af-sb-init.sh start
Oct 25 09:13:56 <camel_liu> Note: For remote X connections DISPLAY should contain hostname!
Oct 25 09:13:56 <camel_liu> Sample files present.
Oct 25 09:13:56 <camel_liu> Starting DBUS system bus
Oct 25 09:14:38 <qwerty12> Goddamn, if he can't live with a few errors, I doubt his programs contain bugs...
Oct 25 09:15:22 <camel_liu> What Plugin desktop file does it mean?
Oct 25 09:27:27 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, ping.
Oct 25 09:28:02 <Stskeeps> pong
Oct 25 09:28:07 <Stskeeps> might have to leave in a few though
Oct 25 09:28:21 <Stskeeps> gf's home for 9 days and she wants to go shopping as she claims i don't have enough food in the house
Oct 25 09:28:31 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Oct 25 09:28:37 <GeneralAntilles> That what I always tell my family. :P
Oct 25 09:28:47 <GeneralAntilles> Well, it's a slightly involved question
Oct 25 09:29:06 <usicow> qwerty12: Ok, I fixed the filesystem and thought everything was going okay,.. so I tried to update a project I've got via svn, and after a minute or so, the n810 just rebooted.. dont know why.. and now ksoftirqd/0 is using 100% CPU. Do you have any idea whats going on?
Oct 25 09:29:41 <GeneralAntilles> But, I guess what I want to ask of you WRT Quim's stuff about upstream alignment is: What are the concrete things Nokia should do to maximize compatibility with Debian/Ubuntu?
Oct 25 09:30:16 <GeneralAntilles> Put simply, what are the big blockers to adding a Debian repo to your catalog and installing packages from there?
Oct 25 09:30:29 <Jaffa> |/who
Oct 25 09:30:31 <Jaffa> x
Oct 25 09:31:01 <Jaffa> gavin: Voted on #3822
Oct 25 09:31:40 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i'll think a bit and research for a proper answer for that.. they really messed up things with not having a proper debhelper for instance, package names / not following renames of packages..
Oct 25 09:31:50 <Jaffa> Bah, damned nick completion on ':'
Oct 25 09:31:55 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: Voted on #3822
Oct 25 09:33:06 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: many maemo-isms, gtkmm lacking typical properties (compile time thing), they should allow for selecting the embedded library and the full gtk
Oct 25 09:33:23 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, from your comments yesterday, I'm not sure where you got that Nokia doesn't want to align Maemo with upstream from Quim's comments.
Oct 25 09:33:38 <GeneralAntilles> Unless you were responding to them not wanting to push Maemo as a mobile Linux for use by other manufacturers.
Oct 25 09:33:47 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: the last part
Oct 25 09:34:11 <Stskeeps> there's plenty of good things in maemo to do exactly that though
Oct 25 09:34:21 <GeneralAntilles> I don't see that as having anything to do with aligning with upstream
Oct 25 09:34:41 <crashanddie> Hi everyone :)
Oct 25 09:34:52 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, crashanddie.
Oct 25 09:34:53 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: gtg for now, i'll think a bit about this :P
Oct 25 09:34:55 <GeneralAntilles> How's the job?
Oct 25 09:34:58 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, thanks! :)
Oct 25 09:35:05 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, awesome, very busy
Oct 25 09:35:10 <GeneralAntilles> I'm glad you are, because I don't have the experience to. :D
Oct 25 09:35:24 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, got back from work yesterday around 11PM :P
Oct 25 09:35:31 <GeneralAntilles> Ouch
Oct 25 09:35:42 <crashanddie> monday evening I'm off for Paris
Oct 25 09:35:51 <crashanddie> then within the next month or so, Ukraine
Oct 25 09:35:55 <crashanddie> and then Paris again
Oct 25 09:37:42 <qwerty12> ~ping
Oct 25 09:37:43 <infobot> ~pong
Oct 25 09:38:54 <GeneralAntilles> We need a wiki page for this upstream stuff.
Oct 25 09:39:00 <Jaffa> krisse's gone mad.
Oct 25 09:39:10 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, ha, that was exactly my thought.
Oct 25 09:39:12 <Jaffa> Maemo-based netbooks?
Oct 25 09:39:38 <Jaffa> I'd rather have Ubuntu or OS X on a netbook than Maemo.
Oct 25 09:40:45 <Jaffa> Almost worth blogging about it (not via the council) as there's no comment facility there.
Oct 25 09:41:02 <usicow>  qwerty12: do you have any idea about my problem with the fs/svn rebooting/ksoftirqd? I'm leaning towards just flashing the whole thing
Oct 25 09:41:15 <GeneralAntilles> You take the stylus/fingers out of the equation and there isn't much point to Maemo.
Oct 25 09:41:52 <qwerty12> usicow: Probably a dodgy sd card or the svn export or checkout is tying up the cpu and the watchdog is rebooting it
Oct 25 09:42:20 <usicow> hmm
Oct 25 09:42:22 <crashanddie> Maemo might have a point once Qt gets involved
Oct 25 09:42:33 <crashanddie> Or liq*
Oct 25 09:42:44 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, but when you have a keyboard and trackpad?
Oct 25 09:42:55 <crashanddie> Having a framework to easily develop lightweight applications
Oct 25 09:43:16 <GeneralAntilles> Why would Maemo be better there than Ubuntu?
Oct 25 09:43:45 <crashanddie> Hey, I didn't say I was right
Oct 25 09:43:49 <crashanddie> I just woke up
Oct 25 09:43:52 <GeneralAntilles> :P
Oct 25 09:43:53 <crashanddie> I said it might have a point
Oct 25 09:43:57 <crashanddie> not that it did :P
Oct 25 09:44:02 <GeneralAntilles> You must have some arguments to back up your point. :P
Oct 25 09:44:09 <crashanddie> oh fuck Maemo
Oct 25 09:44:18 <GeneralAntilles> Right in the ear?
Oct 25 09:44:20 <crashanddie> good enough of an argument for you?
Oct 25 09:44:39 <crashanddie> Ight, in the rear?
Oct 25 09:45:16 <GeneralAntilles> Quote from the South Park movie.
Oct 25 09:46:29 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2008/10/25/
Oct 25 09:46:49 <crashanddie> pump up your ego much?
Oct 25 09:46:58 <crashanddie> maemopeople [...] Jaffa
Oct 25 09:47:20 <crashanddie> I know, I know
Oct 25 09:47:21 <Jaffa> crashanddie: eh? maemopeople.org is a free blog hosting site for Maemo-related topics
Oct 25 09:47:22 <crashanddie> I'll stfu
Oct 25 09:47:36 <GeneralAntilles> Who owns maemopeople?
Oct 25 09:47:40 <Jaffa> maddler
Oct 25 09:48:16 <crashanddie> Who's maddler?
Oct 25 09:48:19 * Jaffa outs: bike shopping for Jaffa Jr.
Oct 25 09:48:34 <crashanddie> Jaffa, what's the budget?
Oct 25 09:48:48 <crashanddie> Jaffa, and what does he want?
Oct 25 09:49:23 <crashanddie> Trailing? Downhill? Road?
Oct 25 09:50:11 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, I don't think he's more than a few years old. :P
Oct 25 09:50:16 <crashanddie> oh
Oct 25 09:50:42 <crashanddie> I wouldn't suggest downhill then :P
Oct 25 09:50:52 <crashanddie> Damnit
Oct 25 09:51:05 <crashanddie> the work computer has a UK-qwerty keyboard
Oct 25 09:51:14 <crashanddie> I have a FR-azerty
Oct 25 09:51:20 <crashanddie> I keep making mistqkates
Oct 25 09:51:23 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Oct 25 09:51:23 <crashanddie> mistakes**
Oct 25 09:51:27 <GeneralAntilles> I type on two layouts without issue
Oct 25 09:51:29 <GeneralAntilles> You'll cope. :P
Oct 25 09:51:40 <crashanddie> Well usually I manage
Oct 25 09:51:45 <crashanddie> it's just this morning...
Oct 25 09:51:48 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Oct 25 09:52:00 <crashanddie> Oh and btw, blackberry ftw
Oct 25 09:52:05 <camel_liu> When run 'af-sb-init.sh', it returns below:
Oct 25 09:52:05 <camel_liu> [sbox-DIABLO_X86: ~] > hildon-input-method[6842]: GLIB MESSAGE default - ui up and running
Oct 25 09:52:05 <camel_liu> hildon-desktop[6858]: GLIB DEBUG default - mission_control_get_presence_actual: MC not running.
Oct 25 09:52:05 <camel_liu> Audio File Library: could not open file '/usr/share/sounds/ui-window_open.wav' [error 3]
Oct 25 09:52:05 <camel_liu> Audio File Library: could not open file '/usr/share/sounds/ui-window_close.wav' [error 3]
Oct 25 09:52:06 <camel_liu>  hildon-desktop[6858]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Plugin desktop file not found, ignoring plugin
Oct 25 09:52:07 * GeneralAntilles hand crashanddie a cup of coffee.
Oct 25 09:52:08 <camel_liu> hildon-desktop[6858]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Plugin desktop file not found, ignoring plugin
Oct 25 09:52:10 <camel_liu> Does nobody have any idea?
Oct 25 09:52:19 <crashanddie> camel_liu, yeah, don't spam the channel
Oct 25 09:52:20 <GeneralAntilles> camel_liu, please use slexy.org for that.
Oct 25 09:52:22 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: what nokia ought to do is: reconstruct maemo. take packages and traditional dependancies from latest debian/ubuntu dist, build for device, make a script for building this foundation, open source the foundation. Use OHM + Upstart + HAL for sane system services and power savings, Xorg+omapfb driver and a hildon desktop on top. Keep system updated with upstream - customize with busybox and such but don't try to limit upstream abilities ...
Oct 25 09:52:28 <Stskeeps> ... too much. If you're going to do API breaks (GTK, GTKMM), use seperate directories and make apps depend on the specialized apps (pkg-config maemo-gtk for instance), but don't break upstream ability to get something sane. Instead of relying on nokia binary blobs for wifi etc connectivity, use bluez and wpa_supplicant, maybe customize network manager to be less crap. Otherwise, provide stub conic etc.
Oct 25 09:52:37 <crashanddie> Is this happy hour or what?
Oct 25 09:52:59 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: and then build services + apps + tablet specific things on top
Oct 25 09:53:01 <camel_liu> I'm new in IRC
Oct 25 09:53:03 <camel_liu> sorry
Oct 25 09:53:29 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, that sounds like the answer I was looking for.
Oct 25 09:53:36 <crashanddie> camel_liu, does the UI show in Xephyr?
Oct 25 09:53:41 <crashanddie> camel_liu, can you use it?
Oct 25 09:53:43 <GeneralAntilles> We'll kick together a wiki page later, Stskeeps.
Oct 25 09:53:44 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks. :)
Oct 25 09:53:51 <camel_liu> yes, it show normally
Oct 25 09:53:59 <crashanddie> camel_liu, then don't worry about it
Oct 25 09:54:05 <crashanddie> camel_liu, everyone gets warnings
Oct 25 09:54:05 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, they're just harmless errors that qwerty12 told him to ignore.
Oct 25 09:54:39 <crashanddie> camel_liu, rule of thumb: if it works, don't mess with it
Oct 25 09:54:59 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: and this will make a sane system for them and make community happy as people can, if they want, remove hildon, transfer maemo foundation to another tablet device (pandora), build their open source replacements and HW specific stuff for their device
Oct 25 09:55:01 <Jaffa> crashanddie: as GeneralAntilles says, the type of bike is "first" ;-)
Oct 25 09:55:17 <Stskeeps> and nokia instantly gets new apps for the maemo platform even when they're on other devices
Oct 25 09:55:20 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, get some baseball cards to go in the spokes. :)
Oct 25 09:55:35 <qwerty12> This is the UK, it's all about football :p
Oct 25 09:55:47 <GeneralAntilles> Right, that. :D
Oct 25 09:55:49 * GeneralAntilles wasn't thinking.
Oct 25 09:55:54 <crashanddie> Jaffa, well, if you ever want some advice :) I'm about in to buy a £2000 downhill bike :)
Oct 25 09:56:22 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, you gonna get a Beagle or Pandora?
Oct 25 09:56:24 <Stskeeps> and has the "cool" of more polished devices and OS'es, with support and neat services you can't get easily on other HW, increasing why you should select a nokia tablet
Oct 25 09:56:32 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, neither, by the looks of it
Oct 25 09:56:55 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, well, Pandora is dead for me, I don't want a gaming console
Oct 25 09:57:08 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, I'll get the beagle board once I have a car
Oct 25 09:57:20 <crashanddie> I want to build a cheap audio/video system in it, using the beagle board
Oct 25 09:57:26 <camel_liu> when I program something in Windows, I would like erverything to be ok, no warning, no error. In Linux or Maemo, that's different? We have to go on with so many warnings?
Oct 25 09:57:38 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, I want to see your notes after you do.
Oct 25 09:57:40 <crashanddie> camel_liu, no, you don't have to
Oct 25 09:57:44 <GeneralAntilles> That's been on my list for a really long time.
Oct 25 09:58:00 <camel_liu> so I want to figure it out.
Oct 25 09:58:00 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, thing is, I won't have a car here in London unless I move out
Oct 25 09:58:09 <crashanddie> camel_liu, excepted it's not your code
Oct 25 09:58:15 <GeneralAntilles> camel_liu, Zephyr warnings don't have anything to do with your program.
Oct 25 09:58:15 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: do you think it's a sane idea or idiotic? i mean, it doesn't really seem like fremantle OS itself has moved that much
Oct 25 09:58:27 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, I think it's a fantastic idea.
Oct 25 09:58:39 <GeneralAntilles> But I suspect Nokia will want to take baby steps to start out.
Oct 25 09:58:45 <camel_liu> but af-sb-init.sh does
Oct 25 09:58:58 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: they'll also get a lot of free work from their upstream :P
Oct 25 09:58:59 <GeneralAntilles> I'd pick a few specific things that they can start with.
Oct 25 09:59:00 <crashanddie> camel_liu, no, af-sb-init.sh doesn't raise any warnings
Oct 25 09:59:21 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, I think that's also the sort of answer Quim is after.
Oct 25 09:59:38 <GeneralAntilles> So put all that in an email as soon as you have the free time and fire it off. ;)
Oct 25 09:59:45 <camel_liu> How about the  GLIB WARNING ** default - Plugin desktop file not found, ignoring plugin? So many!
Oct 25 10:00:01 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: ok
Oct 25 10:00:14 <Stskeeps> they better give me a job offer
Oct 25 10:00:14 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 25 10:00:22 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Oct 25 10:00:31 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, hell, you wouldn't be the first community guy to apply.
Oct 25 10:00:34 <crashanddie> camel_liu, the underlying libraries/programs which are called/executed (and were created for a real hardware platform, and then ported to a software emulation, let's not forget that) create the warnings. One of the causes is that the scratchbox environment is extremely minimalistic (even more than Maemo itself, which is not saying nothing)
Oct 25 10:00:37 <GeneralAntilles> (and get in)
Oct 25 10:00:44 <GeneralAntilles> No harm in trying if you're actually interested. :P
Oct 25 10:00:55 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i'm not entirely sure i would belong in nokia though :P but if i was able to insane things like this, maybe :P
Oct 25 10:01:27 <crashanddie> camel_liu, I don't think any operating system in the world manages to start entirely without a single warning
Oct 25 10:01:51 <crashanddie> It's not because those warnings are hidden from you they're anything better
Oct 25 10:02:11 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: any my idea would be a "wet dream maemo", really. You can get the power of desktop apps if you want, and use the power saving and embedded apps if you want as well
Oct 25 10:02:15 <Stskeeps> best of both worlds
Oct 25 10:02:31 <crashanddie> there is no power in desktop apps
Oct 25 10:02:44 <Stskeeps> and porting would be slightly easier
Oct 25 10:02:44 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, set two targets, the "wet dream Maemo" and some specific realistic targets Nokia can hit.
Oct 25 10:02:44 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 25 10:02:48 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: mm
Oct 25 10:03:04 <crashanddie> only lack of power from the intensive shit, and poor UI design
Oct 25 10:03:20 <Stskeeps> i really think most of the stuff i've said is "realistic", as they're doing most things already (atleast what they claim)
Oct 25 10:03:31 <Stskeeps> ohm+upstart+hal for instance
Oct 25 10:03:34 <Stskeeps> anyhow
Oct 25 10:03:35 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, fair enough.
Oct 25 10:03:36 <Stskeeps> shoppin' time
Oct 25 10:03:41 <GeneralAntilles> Have fun.
Oct 25 10:04:58 * crashanddie goes to get a cup of coffee, and then gets back to Windows 2003 server, VPN, LDAP, and smartcards :)
Oct 25 10:05:30 <GeneralAntilles> Bleh
Oct 25 10:05:39 <camel_liu> crashanddie: thank you
Oct 25 10:06:41 <qwerty12> Windows server 2003 administration eh? The best thing I done with my school's windows 2003 server was hack it (their fault for using the same admin password on all the client computers) and then modify the isa server rules to let me utorrent :P
Oct 25 10:06:56 <crashanddie> qwerty12, nha, not administration, lol
Oct 25 10:07:04 <crashanddie> qwerty12, I have a better job than that :P
Oct 25 10:07:11 <qwerty12> Hehe, even better :D
Oct 25 10:07:22 <crashanddie> qwerty12, I wouldn't be travelling the world if I was a sysadmin
Oct 25 10:07:50 <GeneralAntilles> High-price manwhore with a computer geek theme? :P
Oct 25 10:08:02 <crashanddie> hahaha
Oct 25 10:11:21 <camel_liu> crashanddie, do you happen to have any links to teach how to make applications compiled in scratchbox run at Nokia N800 step by step?
Oct 25 10:12:53 <crashanddie> Open a browser, type "maemo.org" in the address bar, click on development, click on documentation, click on how-to, click on maemo diablo release documentation
Oct 25 10:13:00 <crashanddie> that enough step by step?
Oct 25 10:13:22 <camel_liu> The Diablo reference manual is not clear about how to start at N800
Oct 25 10:14:16 <camel_liu> Yes, I browse the maemo.org, and download the reference manual
Oct 25 10:15:45 <camel_liu> When I follow the manual, I confuse at section 3.5 Setting up USB Networking
Oct 25 10:16:26 <crashanddie> you probably don't need it
Oct 25 10:17:08 * qwerty12 would recommend to learn the essence of packaging instead
Oct 25 10:17:47 <crashanddie> camel_liu, once it's compiled, scp the binary over to the n800, run
Oct 25 10:18:11 <camel_liu> We bought several N800s from eBay, and want to do something on them.
Oct 25 10:18:25 <crashanddie> camel_liu, have you upgraded them to diablo?
Oct 25 10:18:41 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody have any suggestions for what I should replace the Nokia hands startup screen with that would be maemo.org themed?
Oct 25 10:19:04 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, goatse
Oct 25 10:19:11 <GeneralAntilles> <_<
Oct 25 10:19:13 <qwerty12> haha
Oct 25 10:19:25 <crashanddie> "Every reboot is a PITA"
Oct 25 10:19:30 <camel_liu> some are OS2008. How to see the version on N800?
Oct 25 10:19:42 <crashanddie> camel_liu, settings > about
Oct 25 10:19:43 * qwerty12 still gets shits and giggles looking at goatser
Oct 25 10:19:45 <qwerty12> -r
Oct 25 10:19:59 <MangoFusion> several n800's...
Oct 25 10:20:00 <crashanddie> qwerty12, goatser was the guy, actually
Oct 25 10:20:00 <MangoFusion> i know
Oct 25 10:20:07 <MangoFusion> a cluster!
Oct 25 10:20:17 <crashanddie> BEOWULF
Oct 25 10:20:21 <qwerty12> crashanddie: really, lol
Oct 25 10:20:26 <MangoFusion> indeed
Oct 25 10:21:36 <camel_liu> NO settings found in menu :(
Oct 25 10:22:06 <crashanddie> ...
Oct 25 10:22:20 <qwerty12> My friend had a u3 and I installed gonzor for him on it and he ran it on his own computer to test it out and it dumped the firefox saved passwords and he kept the logs. He gave me the usb to put ut on it and I saw the logs and I set his avatar to goatse on ipmart
Oct 25 10:23:09 <crashanddie> qwerty12, usb hacksaw/switchblade... Lame
Oct 25 10:23:33 <qwerty12> crashanddie: Worked for me for getting his firefox password (unintentionally) :P
Oct 25 10:23:40 <GeneralAntilles> camel_liu, Application menu: Settings -> Control Panel: About
Oct 25 10:23:44 * qwerty12 is a self confessed script kidde
Oct 25 10:23:47 <qwerty12> *kiddie even
Oct 25 10:25:05 <GeneralAntilles> http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3820 and http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3819
Oct 25 10:25:15 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody object to WONTFIX and WORKSFORME?
Oct 25 10:25:53 <qwerty12> Nope
Oct 25 10:26:19 <qwerty12> The guy opening 3820 is lazy imo
Oct 25 10:26:22 <camel_liu> Ok, this N800 in my hand is OS2007, and it's Application menu: Tools -> Control Panel: About. Thanks
Oct 25 10:27:23 <GeneralAntilles> camel_liu:
Oct 25 10:27:24 <GeneralAntilles> ~flashing
Oct 25 10:27:25 <infobot> rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Oct 25 10:27:26 <eichi> helo
Oct 25 10:27:45 <eichi> i have a small problem with the rights from external memorycard
Oct 25 10:28:06 <eichi> if i put data from my laptop on it, i dont have write access to them on the n800
Oct 25 10:28:27 <qwerty12> ext* formatted?
Oct 25 10:30:50 <camel_liu> How can I start xterm on N800?
Oct 25 10:31:09 <qwerty12> It doesn't come with OS2007 by default
Oct 25 10:32:05 <camel_liu> So I have to upgrade to OS2008 first?
Oct 25 10:32:08 <qwerty12> Hmm, I have no idea where to get it for OS2007 though having only ever used it for 10 mins. I'd just say upgrade to diablo reading the link GeneralAntilles gave
Oct 25 10:32:21 <qwerty12> Basically, yeah. Which SDK did you install btw?
Oct 25 10:33:03 <camel_liu> Just browse to that link using N800? My SDK installed is 4.1.1.
Oct 25 10:33:27 <qwerty12> Oh, programs built with that SDK wouldn't work in OS2007 anyway
Oct 25 10:33:43 <qwerty12> No computer, as you need a computer to perform the actual upgrade
Oct 25 10:34:40 <eichi> qwerty12, yes, ext3 but will do ex2 next days
Oct 25 10:35:24 <camel_liu> qwerty12, I do not understand what you said.
Oct 25 10:35:43 <qwerty12> eichi: Check if "user" owns the files you want to access. ls -l <file> should tell you
Oct 25 10:35:44 <camel_liu> N800 cannot upgrade through wifi?
Oct 25 10:35:51 <qwerty12> camel_liu: Not in OS2007,
Oct 25 10:36:49 <qwerty12> Oh, my bad, I see my grammatical problems creeped up in that sentence. You need a computer to upgrade from OS2007 to OS2008.
Oct 25 10:38:23 <camel_liu> How? the link (http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware) returns a blank page.
Oct 25 10:38:51 <GeneralAntilles> camel_liu, reload.
Oct 25 10:39:36 <camel_liu> still nothing! Not this link?
Oct 25 10:39:53 <GeneralAntilles> camel_liu, make sure it's not just reloading the cache. . . .
Oct 25 10:41:44 <eichi> qwerty12, and then i have to do chown user:users <folder> -r ?
Oct 25 10:41:57 <qwerty12> eichi: yep
Oct 25 10:47:06 <eichi> qwerty12, shi*, no valid user "user" ;D in laptop
Oct 25 10:47:15 <t_s_o> maemo not usable with a larger keyboard? yea right...
Oct 25 10:47:24 <qwerty12> eichi: do it on the tablet :P
Oct 25 10:47:34 <eichi> and the user-ID would not be the same maybe
Oct 25 10:48:57 <camel_liu> other links in 'wiki.maemo.org' are ok except that one (Updating_the_tablet_firmware)!
Oct 25 10:49:02 <usicow> qwerty12: what the correct mount command to remount /dev/mmcblk1p1?
Oct 25 10:49:41 <GeneralAntilles> camel_liu, your browser has cached the blank page.
Oct 25 10:49:45 <qwerty12> usicow: ke-recv mounts it with something really long. Just remove and reinsert the memory card
Oct 25 10:49:48 <GeneralAntilles> Make sure it isn't reloading the cached page.
Oct 25 10:49:55 <usicow> ok
Oct 25 10:54:23 <camel_liu> I cleared cach, but still return blank page
Oct 25 10:54:36 <qwerty12> Which browser?
Oct 25 10:54:43 <camel_liu> firefox
Oct 25 10:54:54 <qwerty12> Press Ctrl-Shift-R at the blank page
Oct 25 10:55:38 <camel_liu> Done!
Oct 25 10:56:20 <camel_liu> I'll remember Ctrl-Shift-R! Thanks!
Oct 25 11:05:50 <camel_liu> crashanddie, GeneralAntilles, infobot and qwerty12: Thanks for your patient answers.
Oct 25 11:06:20 <qwerty12> No problems but you should know that infobot isn't human :D
Oct 25 11:06:36 <camel_liu> Oh ?
Oct 25 11:06:42 <qwerty12> Yeah, he's a bot
Oct 25 11:07:04 <camel_liu> just a bot
Oct 25 11:07:18 <camel_liu> How clever!
Oct 25 11:12:14 <camel_liu> When a program is compiled under scratchbox, how can I ship it to N800? Is there any references? Or just follow the step of Reference Manual for maemo 4.1? crashanddie said just scp it to n800 and run. Is that simple?
Oct 25 11:12:37 <GeneralAntilles> Of course it's that simple.
Oct 25 11:14:45 <camel_liu> just connect N800 to host by USB and scp in terminal of host?
Oct 25 11:15:04 <camel_liu> no gainroot on N800 or else?
Oct 25 11:15:23 <GeneralAntilles> Just use wifi
Oct 25 11:15:37 <GeneralAntilles> sftp is also an option
Oct 25 11:16:47 <hellwolf> In maemo mapper, I clicked route->download, then the application stopped. Should I wait
Oct 25 11:17:53 <camel_liu> Browse to that package and download it through wifi, then install and run. Am I right?
Oct 25 11:21:05 <camel_liu> GeneralAntilles?
Oct 25 11:31:30 <camel_liu> If I want my apllication to be run on N800, then What I need to do is just scp or download it to N800 through wifi. No USB networking is needed, right?
Oct 25 11:57:21 <camel_liu> quit
Oct 25 12:24:44 <GeneralAntilles> Whew, there's a 2000-email lighter inbox.
Oct 25 12:27:01 <RST38h> rm -rf?
Oct 25 12:27:26 <GeneralAntilles> Nah, there was important stuff mixed in with the spam.
Oct 25 12:27:38 <hibersh> hello everyone
Oct 25 13:38:02 * Jaffa yawns
Oct 25 13:45:30 * GAN800 wonders if karma will ever work again.
Oct 25 13:53:10 <Jaffa> Seems unlikely.
Oct 25 13:54:17 <Jaffa> How many people are working on maemo.org fulltime?
Oct 25 13:55:07 <solmumaha> should i be able to edit wiki or what is this user localhost thing?
Oct 25 13:55:18 <Jaffa> solmumaha: either login or use https
Oct 25 13:55:39 <solmumaha> i did login
Oct 25 13:55:45 <Jaffa> ah
Oct 25 13:56:58 <solmumaha> ah, works with https, thanks
Oct 25 13:57:51 <solmumaha> although it still says " You are not logged in. Your IP address will be recorded in this page's edit history."
Oct 25 13:58:15 <Jaffa> You sure you're logged in? ;-)
Oct 25 14:00:32 <solmumaha> yes, it shows my ip on top right and lets me edit it
Oct 25 14:00:47 <qwerty12> That means you aren't logged in :)
Oct 25 14:01:02 <solmumaha> sigh
Oct 25 14:01:19 <qwerty12> If you are logged in, you should see your username there instead
Oct 25 14:01:39 <GAN800> Jaffa, would you count Nemein?
Oct 25 14:01:54 <Jaffa> Hmm, maybe.
Oct 25 14:01:55 <solmumaha> ou are now logged in to maemo wiki as "ukki"
Oct 25 14:02:13 <solmumaha> but after i return to article, it shows my ip
Oct 25 14:02:17 <GAN800> Jaffa, too many for karma not to work, methinks. :/
Oct 25 14:02:40 * Jaffa trying to work out how many people /could/ be working on fixing what weve already got, rather than spending time on other things
Oct 25 14:02:57 <Jaffa> GAN800: that was where I was going, too
Oct 25 14:03:57 <GAN800> solmumaha, there's a bug.
Oct 25 14:05:13 <GAN800> and there still haven't been noticeable improvements in the site performance even though we supposedly have new hardware
Oct 25 14:05:19 <Jaffa> rn to article, it shows my ip
Oct 25 14:05:20 * GAN800 sighs.
Oct 25 14:05:27 <Jaffa> Ah, that's now DB problems *cough*
Oct 25 14:06:16 <GAN800> and I'd say 'Just make it work already'
Oct 25 14:06:44 <GAN800> However much money Nokia needs to throw at it to make it work. . . .
Oct 25 14:07:12 <GAN800> How far gone is the 100 Days now?
Oct 25 14:07:18 <l7> what db problems?
Oct 25 14:07:23 <crashanddie> they didn't change shit on the website
Oct 25 14:07:33 <crashanddie> and if they did, they need to fire the sysadmins
Oct 25 14:08:37 <GAN800> l7, supposedly the performance bottleneck is now the db machine.
Oct 25 14:08:45 <crashanddie> solmumaha, don't hit the return button
Oct 25 14:08:51 <crashanddie> solmumaha, refresh the page
Oct 25 14:09:47 <orangey> hey all!
Oct 25 14:10:07 <crashanddie> by
Oct 25 14:10:09 <crashanddie> e
Oct 25 14:10:12 <orangey> Is it in any way possible to make a telephone call with a nokia n810?
Oct 25 14:10:16 <orangey> or any maemo, I guess..
Oct 25 14:10:35 <orangey> I mean using a GSM modem of some kind accessible to maemo
Oct 25 14:10:42 <crashanddie> no
Oct 25 14:10:49 <Jaffa> orangey: Not directly. Only using SIP or SkypeOut etc.
Oct 25 14:11:01 <orangey> Jaffa: fair enough.
Oct 25 14:11:28 <orangey> I think my n810 is nearly perfect. The only thing that would make it sublime would be cell capabilities.
Oct 25 14:11:38 <orangey> plus or minus usable GPS : )
Oct 25 14:12:21 <crashanddie> plus or minus?
Oct 25 14:12:22 * GAN800 still cannot fathom why anybody would want to hold one of these bricks to their face.
Oct 25 14:12:34 <orangey> crashanddie: as in "it doesn't matter either way"
Oct 25 14:13:12 <crashanddie> GAN800, apple effect
Oct 25 14:13:34 <crashanddie> "Finger it, then put your face on it"
Oct 25 14:13:39 <GAN800> iPhone's still way smaller.
Oct 25 14:14:00 <crashanddie> hmm, I'm sorry for what I just said
Oct 25 14:14:10 <crashanddie> it was way less ambiguous when I thought it
Oct 25 14:14:26 <GAN800> Ha
Oct 25 14:15:41 <crashanddie> qnyqay
Oct 25 14:15:43 <crashanddie> ok
Oct 25 14:15:49 <crashanddie> anyway, back to work
Oct 25 14:18:54 <GAN800> bergie, when's karma gonna work again?
Oct 25 14:19:07 <bergie> GAN800: next week
Oct 25 14:19:20 <bergie> I was supposed to do it last Thu but then there was a medical emergency :-/
Oct 25 14:20:33 <GAN800> Oh, sorry to hear that.
Oct 25 14:25:49 <sven-tek> Hi! i installed jalimo for a java program. From the error i get starting it, i found that the package classpath-gtk is missing. But its not in the repository. By chance, anyone here familiar with this?
Oct 25 14:26:21 <Jaffa> I installed jalimo-swt-example and it Just Worked[TM]
Oct 25 14:35:33 <RST38h> sven: Install one of the examples - it should install all the necessary stuff
Oct 25 14:43:48 <camel_liu> hi, everyone!
Oct 25 14:43:55 <johnx> hi
Oct 25 14:44:07 <camel_liu> :)
Oct 25 14:44:21 <camel_liu> I'm new in Maemo.
Oct 25 14:45:55 <camel_liu> I want know how to install package librsvg2-2 in scratchbox from maemo.org extras repository.
Oct 25 14:47:48 <camel_liu> How to install a package in scratchbox from a special repository?
Oct 25 14:48:29 <johnx> in scratchbox, edit /etc/apt/sources.list (or maybe /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-<something>
Oct 25 14:49:00 <johnx> you can find the information you need to add in any .install file for a package in extras
Oct 25 14:49:25 <camel_liu> add that repository to sources.list?
Oct 25 14:49:32 <johnx> correct
Oct 25 14:49:35 <johnx> that should do it
Oct 25 14:49:59 <camel_liu> then? use apt-get?
Oct 25 14:50:03 <johnx> yup
Oct 25 14:51:37 <GeneralAntilles> Ahh, the explosive sound of a car accident.
Oct 25 14:52:50 <johnx> heh...I'm thousands of miles away from mine. is that outside where you are GeneralAntilles?
Oct 25 14:53:33 <camel_liu> Can I list the content of a repository in scratchbox?
Oct 25 14:54:00 <GeneralAntilles> There's a big road about 500' outside my window.
Oct 25 14:54:11 <johnx> you can list the contents of all repos I think
Oct 25 14:54:16 <johnx> some apt-cache command
Oct 25 14:54:30 <GeneralAntilles> Some idiot in a WRX seems to have smacked into the back of an Accord.
Oct 25 14:54:49 <johnx> 4wd makes you go faster, not stop faster :)
Oct 25 14:54:54 <GeneralAntilles> Ehehe
Oct 25 14:55:15 <GeneralAntilles> Crash, then the squealing tires.
Oct 25 14:55:17 <camel_liu> johnx, I'll try it. Thanks.
Oct 25 14:55:27 <GeneralAntilles> Guess they didn't account for the wet roads.
Oct 25 14:55:27 <lopz> hola
Oct 25 14:55:34 <johnx> it's awesome when people in 4wd SUVs try to drive in the snow
Oct 25 14:55:43 <johnx> camel_liu, apt-cache dumpavail | less
Oct 25 14:55:45 <Kegetys> crash first, then brake? :P
Oct 25 14:56:03 <johnx> probably the accord had his brakes on?
Oct 25 14:56:09 <GeneralAntilles> Kegetys, more like the sound of the Accord stealing all of the Subaru's energy.
Oct 25 14:56:10 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Oct 25 14:56:45 <RST38h> johnx: I have driven my CRV in the snow. Drives just fine, as long as you know what you are doing
Oct 25 14:56:47 <BugBlue> hehe
Oct 25 14:56:58 <BugBlue> finally compiling kismet with pcap support
Oct 25 14:57:04 <GeneralAntilles> CR-V comes in 4WD?
Oct 25 14:57:05 <BugBlue> just patched the source that GPS will work
Oct 25 14:57:14 <qwerty12> with tz1's patch?
Oct 25 14:57:18 <RST38h> General: It i AWD
Oct 25 14:57:22 <johnx> RST38h, I guess I should say unskilled people who think 4wd is a replacement for experience
Oct 25 14:57:37 <RST38h> johnx: I am not particularly skilled, just careful (most of the time)
Oct 25 14:58:09 <johnx> yeah, I'm real careful in snow, except in open parking lots where I know where the curbs are
Oct 25 14:58:13 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, it's not that 4WD can't drive in snow, it's just that idiots tend to thing certain automobile features can save them from anything.
Oct 25 14:58:17 <BugBlue> qwerty12: no not yet... I'm playing
Oct 25 14:58:26 * GeneralAntilles has yet to drive in snow.
Oct 25 14:58:48 <GeneralAntilles> Rain I can do, though!
Oct 25 14:58:51 <qwerty12> BugBlue: Ah, ok. I should recompile aircrack-ng from the latest svn but that means I have to set up an cs2008 toolchain :/
Oct 25 14:59:03 <johnx> just a matter of drive slower than you think you should, leave lots of space, love your ABS like you never have before
Oct 25 15:00:08 <BugBlue> mm
Oct 25 15:00:13 <BugBlue> just lost my ssh connection with my nokia
Oct 25 15:00:18 <BugBlue> I guess kismet does work
Oct 25 15:00:23 * RST38h had to drive out from about 30cm of snow in CRV - it looks and feels like a speedboat but runs
Oct 25 15:00:31 <johnx> "work" is putting it a little strongly
Oct 25 15:00:47 <BugBlue> let's take a look at the device
Oct 25 15:00:49 <RST38h> 50cm stop it dead - it is just stuck
Oct 25 15:00:53 * johnx loves his little subaru wagon
Oct 25 15:01:12 <johnx> biggest problem is an open diff in the rear :/
Oct 25 15:01:25 <RST38h> johnx: Justy? =)
Oct 25 15:01:46 <johnx> RST38h, 96 impreza outback sport
Oct 25 15:02:31 <RST38h> ah
Oct 25 15:02:38 * RST38h almost bought that one
Oct 25 15:03:33 <johnx> good year for that car, before they made them huge and heavy, also the 96 was the only year with a 2.2L that was non-interference
Oct 25 15:05:00 <RST38h> I got spooked by that air intake in front of the windshield
Oct 25 15:05:10 <johnx> the scoopy thing?
Oct 25 15:05:20 <johnx> that was a 97 feature :)
Oct 25 15:05:45 <RST38h> Then it was the '97 model as I ended up buying '97 CRV
Oct 25 15:06:01 <johnx> it's for uhm...cooling something or uhm...increasing the aerodynamic profile :/
Oct 25 15:06:18 <johnx> looks fugly, blocks wind, not attached to anything (AFAIK) on a non-turbo subaru
Oct 25 15:06:19 <mardi__> getting cool air to the small intercooler
Oct 25 15:06:28 <mardi__> on turbo model
Oct 25 15:06:45 <RST38h> johnx: I suspect it is for ventingfumes
Oct 25 15:07:01 <johnx> while you're in reverse?
Oct 25 15:07:03 <RST38h> because older subarus had that oil burnout problem
Oct 25 15:07:32 <johnx> yeah, that's why I stayed away from the EA82 engines
Oct 25 15:07:41 <RST38h> johnx: maybe it scoops air and blows fumes down under? =)
Oct 25 15:08:21 <johnx> RST38h, so it can come in around the gear shift? :D
Oct 25 15:08:35 <RST38h> kinda =)
Oct 25 15:09:16 <RST38h> I once did work for the guy whose 87 (?) Legacy started smoking every time he reached 40mph
Oct 25 15:09:30 <RST38h> It also looked exactly like 84 Camry =)
Oct 25 15:09:32 <johnx> that would be an EA82 I believe
Oct 25 15:13:49 <mardi__> engine has an undertray, doubt fumes would get out underneath
Oct 25 15:14:07 <RST38h> they got out up front though
Oct 25 15:14:35 <johnx> mmmm...fumes
Oct 25 15:15:20 <RST38h> btw, Subaru is absolutely hated by mechanics =)
Oct 25 15:15:26 <johnx> ha
Oct 25 15:15:29 <johnx> I believe it
Oct 25 15:15:36 <johnx> I don't look forward to working on mine
Oct 25 15:18:28 * RST38h wonders which one is more trouble: Subaru or LuAZ
Oct 25 15:21:36 <RST38h> One has got weird engine, another has got weird transmission
Oct 25 15:24:51 <johnx> give me a RWD car with an I6 any day...
Oct 25 15:26:08 <GAN800> Mmmm
Oct 25 15:26:22 <GAN800> It's too bad RWD is dead
Oct 25 15:26:32 <RST38h> not yet
Oct 25 15:26:34 <johnx> if you want something new: yes.
Oct 25 15:26:41 <johnx> well, BMW still does it
Oct 25 15:26:42 <RST38h> See Toyota Avensis for example
Oct 25 15:27:00 <johnx> really, still using a 2JZ?
Oct 25 15:27:25 <johnx> err...no?
Oct 25 15:28:01 <johnx> FWD I4...
Oct 25 15:29:06 <RST38h> Really? Last time I checked (2 years ago?) it was RWD
Oct 25 15:30:33 <johnx> maybe a different toyota
Oct 25 15:31:38 <GAN800> I'm still pulling for a new RWD Corolla
Oct 25 15:31:43 <johnx> heh
Oct 25 15:31:51 <RST38h> what do you need rwd for?
Oct 25 15:31:53 <johnx> people have been doing that for 20 years
Oct 25 15:32:03 <camel_liu> when I run 'apt-get update', there're something 'Failed to fetch'.  Not all, and just a few. Why?
Oct 25 15:32:15 <johnx> camel_liu, warnings or errors?
Oct 25 15:32:30 <GAN800> Two words: torque steer
Oct 25 15:32:31 <camel_liu> I have to download them through browser
Oct 25 15:32:41 <johnx> also, is it the thing you just added?
Oct 25 15:33:18 <camel_liu> No, includes something old
Oct 25 15:33:53 <johnx> could you put the error up on pastebin?
Oct 25 15:33:53 <camel_liu> when I install Maemo SDK, this happen once.
Oct 25 15:34:28 <camel_liu> pastebin? I have been there. Where?
Oct 25 15:34:44 <johnx> ~pastebin
Oct 25 15:34:44 <infobot> [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste
Oct 25 15:34:48 <camel_liu> I'm a freshman in Maemo
Oct 25 15:35:00 <johnx> copy the whole output of apt-get update to pastebin :)
Oct 25 15:35:14 <johnx> that way we can see what's going on
Oct 25 15:35:32 <camel_liu> wait a moment
Oct 25 15:38:51 <camel_liu> Error with post: Sorry, your post tripped our spam filter - let us know if you think this could be improved
Oct 25 15:40:04 <johnx> eep
Oct 25 15:40:16 <johnx> try a different pastebin I guess?
Oct 25 15:41:54 <GeneralAntilles> Stupid Obama idiots making me get up off the couch to answer the door. . . .
Oct 25 15:42:39 <RST38h> Doesn't that reduce his chances of success? =)
Oct 25 15:42:54 <GeneralAntilles> I don't need anybody telling me who to vote for, thanks.
Oct 25 15:43:11 <camel_liu> Why? Should I register to post the code at pasterbin?
Oct 25 15:43:12 <johnx> some people do :)
Oct 25 15:44:00 <johnx> camel_liu, you shouldn't need to register. just pastebin.ca maybe
Oct 25 15:45:11 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, I wonder what ossi1967's definition of a "touch based OS" is. . . .
Oct 25 15:45:11 <camel_liu> Done! http://pastebin.ca/1236505
Oct 25 15:45:13 <RST38h> General: Put a sign up - "Political campaigners will be shot, dismembered, diced, and fed to hamsters"
Oct 25 15:45:42 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Oct 25 15:45:53 <GeneralAntilles> I wouldn't have gotten up at all if I weren't expecting a FedEx package today.
Oct 25 15:47:27 <johnx> I don't have scratchbox setup right now. Can someone comment on camel_liu's error message?
Oct 25 15:49:34 <RST38h> this is not an error message
Oct 25 15:49:46 <RST38h> it is a warning that some repos are down
Oct 25 15:50:43 <johnx> the file is retrieavable in a browser. Is this temporary? or is there a workaround?
Oct 25 15:51:08 <camel_liu> I can downnload them through firefox however!
Oct 25 15:51:32 <johnx> same here. obviously apt isn't handling "302 found" correctly
Oct 25 15:51:47 <johnx> but at the same time, the repository shouldn't be returning 302 found
Oct 25 15:55:54 <RST38h> it should come up
Oct 25 15:56:00 <RST38h> sooner or later
Oct 25 15:56:10 <camel_liu> When I install maemo SDK at first time, this issue suffered me three days. One file is always failed to fetch. I tried everything, including dns resolving and reinstalling the whole system. The final mothed is downloading that file through browser and open the .gz. Save it as what name it should be and where it should be.
Oct 25 15:56:34 <RST38h> The weird thing is, I also installed Maemo SDK and did not need this step
Oct 25 15:56:58 <RST38h> didn't apt-get anything - the thing installed and just worked.
Oct 25 15:57:57 <johnx> from wget on the command line it's giving me 200 OK
Oct 25 15:58:45 <johnx> camel_liu, outside of scratchbox, could you try downloading one of the Packages.gz files with wget?
Oct 25 15:58:49 <camel_liu> I follewed the reference manual, the auto install .sh is stop at update, so I have to update list manually
Oct 25 15:59:14 <johnx> camel_liu, you didn't do anything wrong I think. it appears to be some problem with maemo.org
Oct 25 15:59:25 <camel_liu> yes, I can get it with wget just in scratchbox!
Oct 25 16:00:19 <johnx> camel_liu, when you use wget on the line that says "HTTP request sent, awaiting response" what does it say? 200 OK? or something else?
Oct 25 16:01:50 <camel_liu> new post including wget info, see http://pastebin.ca/1236512
Oct 25 16:02:23 <camel_liu> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Found
Oct 25 16:03:11 <johnx> ok, looks like one of the mirrors of maemo.org is returning 302 found...
Oct 25 16:03:25 <johnx> it doesn't do that here, but it also resolves to a different address
Oct 25 16:03:53 <camel_liu> but we cannot control which mirror it choosed, can we?
Oct 25 16:04:21 <johnx> hang on a sec
Oct 25 16:05:17 <camel_liu> wget can resolve to another one, but apt-get cannot, right?
Oct 25 16:05:52 <johnx> no, wget handles the redirect correctly
Oct 25 16:06:24 <johnx> on my computer it is accessing a different mirror. That's probably the case for other people too
Oct 25 16:06:36 <RST38h> camel_liu: Have you considered using SB2 instead? =)
Oct 25 16:06:42 * RST38h smiles satanically
Oct 25 16:06:56 <qwerty12> SB2 can burn in hell!
Oct 25 16:06:59 <johnx> RST38h, won't help
Oct 25 16:07:01 <qwerty12> MUAHAHAHAHA
Oct 25 16:07:21 <RST38h> SB2 is at home there!
Oct 25 16:07:28 <camel_liu> apt-get cannot redirect correctly?
Oct 25 16:07:35 <RST38h> johnx: I do not remember SB2 ever doing this
Oct 25 16:07:39 * qwerty12 douses SB2 with water. Drown bitch!
Oct 25 16:07:50 <RST38h> On the other hand, I do not remember SB doing that either =(
Oct 25 16:08:05 <johnx> camel_liu, yes. but the bug is that the repository shouldn't be redirecting
Oct 25 16:08:29 <johnx> RST38h, apt doesn't handle 302 redirects. the maemo.org mirror he connects to is redirecting. Yors isn't
Oct 25 16:08:45 <johnx> RST38h, it's a location based thing. Moving would help. :) So would fixing the repository server...
Oct 25 16:08:50 <RST38h> johnx: No, I mean I do not remember it running apt-get during install at all
Oct 25 16:09:01 <johnx> RST38h, it did. you missed it :)
Oct 25 16:09:04 <RST38h> Wait wait....
Oct 25 16:09:18 <RST38h> He cannot move of course. But he can edit his hosts file to point to the correct mirror
Oct 25 16:09:52 <camel_liu> In maemo-sdk-install_4.1.1.sh, at the end, it runs apt-get
Oct 25 16:09:57 <johnx> yeah, that might work. it would be best to just get this cleared up so other people don't run into it. I'm sure it's not intended behavior
Oct 25 16:12:13 <camel_liu> I've slept only 4 hours every these three days to install maemo. Just because of this issue.
Oct 25 16:12:57 <camel_liu> Which hosts file should I edit to point to the correct mirror?
Oct 25 16:13:30 <johnx> inside scratchbox, edit /etc/hosts
Oct 25 16:13:32 <johnx> add this line:
Oct 25 16:13:49 <johnx> 210.150.253.248     repository.maemo.org
Oct 25 16:13:53 <johnx> that *might* work
Oct 25 16:14:26 <GAN800> Doubt it
Oct 25 16:14:55 <johnx> GAN800, better ideas. Before you ask, yes I'm filing a bug
Oct 25 16:15:48 <GAN800> No, but s/repository.maemo.org/$akamai mirror/ doesn't work for http directory listings.
Oct 25 16:16:49 <qwerty12> That reminds me, nokia people should get rid of files not needed: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/akamai.diff ...
Oct 25 16:17:05 <RST38h> can apt-get be configured to use a proxy?
Oct 25 16:17:16 <BugBlue> oke my kismet does work nicely :D
Oct 25 16:17:23 <johnx> RST38h, yes
Oct 25 16:17:24 <BugBlue> and it doesn't even destroy my wireless anymore
Oct 25 16:17:41 <johnx> BugBlue, does it actually produce proper results?
Oct 25 16:17:58 <RST38h> then the plan-b solution would be to make it run through a US-based proxy
Oct 25 16:18:00 <johnx> camel_liu, where are you?
Oct 25 16:18:00 <qwerty12> johnx: I've had kismet running for 24h successfully
Oct 25 16:18:03 <BugBlue> johnx: it does
Oct 25 16:18:20 <camel_liu> China
Oct 25 16:18:21 <johnx> qwerty12, I did too, but it returned lots of phantom results when checked against my zaurus
Oct 25 16:18:21 <BugBlue> time to run around the village here after some more configuring
Oct 25 16:18:48 <qwerty12> johnx: + I was able to get the WEP key of the network I was dumping packets from
Oct 25 16:19:02 <camel_liu> The number of files that failed to fetch is not constant.
Oct 25 16:19:44 <johnx> does the IP address of server change?
Oct 25 16:20:25 <camel_liu> no, just  61.200.81.143
Oct 25 16:21:49 <melmoth> i have a daemon that i can start with /etc/init.d/servicescript start. I use update-rc.d so it should start for runlevel 2,3,4 and 5 (S90). But "it does not work".
Oct 25 16:22:22 <melmoth> any idea of where i could look ? any package known to start a daemon at startup so i can look how it s done there ?
Oct 25 16:22:46 <johnx> melmoth, is it symlinked into /etc/rc2.d as Snndaemon
Oct 25 16:22:53 <johnx> where nn is the order
Oct 25 16:23:21 <melmoth> yep , it is.
Oct 25 16:23:27 <qwerty12> melmoth: You shouldn't need to start it for runlevel 3 & 4
Oct 25 16:25:51 <camel_liu> how to resolve '302 Found'? Just manually fetch them one by one?
Oct 25 16:26:26 <RST38h> you may configure apt-get to use a US-based proxy or something
Oct 25 16:26:34 <johnx> camel_liu, can you use a proxy? I'm filing a bug report so that it can be fixed properly,
Oct 25 16:27:09 <melmoth> let see if it works better with 99 instead of 90 as the order
Oct 25 16:27:19 <camel_liu> how to use a proxy in apt-get?
Oct 25 16:28:18 <RST38h> http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32708
Oct 25 16:28:52 <johnx> first try this:
Oct 25 16:29:23 <johnx> export http_proxy=http://some-proxy:8080
Oct 25 16:29:45 <johnx> replace some-proxy with the real name, and 8080 with whatever port
Oct 25 16:30:28 <BugBlue> it seems that the output from gpsd/the gps driver changed between maemo 4.0 and 4.1
Oct 25 16:30:46 <camel_liu> But I have no US-based proxy :(
Oct 25 16:33:10 <RST38h> camel_ Google search for "http proxies" ? =)
Oct 25 16:33:16 <RST38h> No?
Oct 25 16:33:31 <camel_liu> no, but I'll try
Oct 25 16:40:20 <johnx> camel_liu, do you already connect through a proxy?
Oct 25 16:41:17 <melmoth> Hmm, actually, the daemon starts, but it dies because of dbus: cannot open /var/lib/dbus/machine-id . Looks like i should wait untill the whole desktop environment is started.
Oct 25 16:41:30 <johnx> I am testing proxies inside China and they seem to work fine :)
Oct 25 16:42:33 <qwerty12> melmoth: hmm, if your daemon is running as root, either prefix it with run-standalone or put this in the postinst of your program:
Oct 25 16:42:34 <qwerty12> 	if [ ! -e /var/lib/dbus/machine-id ]; then
Oct 25 16:42:34 <qwerty12> 		dbus-uuidgen --ensure=/var/lib/dbus/machine-id
Oct 25 16:42:34 <qwerty12> 	fi
Oct 25 16:43:58 <camel_liu> johnx, is 'export http_proxy=' the parameter of apt-get?
Oct 25 16:44:04 <melmoth> hmmm.. So, it should not do that if it run as user ? Let s try that, it does not need to be root in the first place.
Oct 25 16:44:11 <qwerty12> melmoth: yep
Oct 25 16:44:22 <johnx> export http_proxy=foo:8080
Oct 25 16:44:24 <johnx> apt-get update
Oct 25 16:44:31 <johnx> camel_liu, separate commands
Oct 25 16:48:46 <camel_liu> how can I validate a proxy? ping?
Oct 25 16:49:17 <johnx> tell me the proxy and I'll try it :)
Oct 25 16:49:42 <camel_liu> 208.62.125.146:80 from http://www.proxy4free.com/page1.html
Oct 25 16:50:48 <johnx> not working here. try 128.112.139.97:3127
Oct 25 16:52:16 <camel_liu> Err http://repository.maemo.org diablo/sdk Release.gpg
Oct 25 16:52:16 <camel_liu>   Could not resolve '3127'
Oct 25 16:52:50 <johnx> I think you might have typed something wrong
Oct 25 16:52:52 <camel_liu> Err http://repository.maemo.org diablo/sdk/free Packages
Oct 25 16:52:52 <camel_liu>   Could not resolve '3127'
Oct 25 16:53:39 <camel_liu> [sbox-DIABLO_X86: ~] > export http_proxy=128.112.139.97:3127
Oct 25 16:53:39 <camel_liu> [sbox-DIABLO_X86: ~] > apt-get update
Oct 25 16:54:13 <johnx> ok, that's right
Oct 25 16:54:14 <johnx> hmmm
Oct 25 16:55:05 <johnx> fails here too, but try wget at least
Oct 25 16:56:27 <camel_liu> how can I disable the 'export http_proxy='?
Oct 25 16:56:46 <johnx> unset http_proxy
Oct 25 17:07:22 <Stskeeps> camel_liu: if you have repo issues from installing sdk, get the new .sh from the page where you get it, it should be fixed
Oct 25 17:07:55 <johnx> Stskeeps, issues with "302 found" ?
Oct 25 17:08:07 <Stskeeps> possibly yeah
Oct 25 17:08:42 <camel_liu> I installed sdk.
Oct 25 17:09:11 <camel_liu> what i want know is to install librsvg2-2
Oct 25 17:09:19 <Stskeeps> ah
Oct 25 17:09:28 <camel_liu> now
Oct 25 17:10:35 <camel_liu> I follow the reference manual to try monkey bubble
Oct 25 17:11:40 <camel_liu> it needs librsvg2-2, which is available in maemo.org extras repository
Oct 25 17:12:00 <camel_liu> so I add that repo to sources.list
Oct 25 17:12:15 <camel_liu> and try apt-get update
Oct 25 17:12:43 <camel_liu> then get '302 Found'.
Oct 25 17:14:26 <camel_liu> When I install sdk, this also happened to me. I resolved it by downloading the failed file through browser, opening and saving it as needed.
Oct 25 17:16:31 <camel_liu> This is what caused Err in .sh: $__scratchbox/login apt-get -o Acquire::http::TimeOut=15 -o Acquire::http::Retries=2 update
Oct 25 17:17:09 <camel_liu> Stskeeps, new .sh changed this?
Oct 25 17:18:32 <camel_liu> Problem with apt-get or repo server?
Oct 25 17:22:28 <camel_liu> johnx, I can download ,gz from 202.158.161.39:9203, any help?
Oct 25 17:22:38 <johnx> with wget?
Oct 25 17:22:52 <johnx> does it give you 302 found at all?
Oct 25 17:22:53 <camel_liu> firefox
Oct 25 17:23:21 <johnx> firefox understands redirects. 302 found is a redirect.
Oct 25 17:23:54 <camel_liu> wget also understands.
Oct 25 17:23:59 <johnx> yes
Oct 25 17:24:18 <johnx> does wget say "302 Found" at some point during the download?
Oct 25 17:24:37 <camel_liu> why not apt-get? It's not only for maemo, it's for ubuntu too
Oct 25 17:24:52 <johnx> I don't know. ask the people who wrote apt-get
Oct 25 17:26:11 <camel_liu> yes, wget say it, but finally redirect to another one
Oct 25 17:27:29 <RST38h> so, using a proxy did not work out?
Oct 25 17:28:18 <camel_liu> johnx has given me a proxy, and did not work out
Oct 25 17:30:00 <RST38h> ok
Oct 25 17:30:02 <johnx> camel_liu, try one more thing. Add this to /etc/apt.conf: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/fedora-35/how-to-set-up-proxy-in-apt-gets-apt.conf-265793/#post1351786
Oct 25 17:33:06 <camel_liu> apt-get -o Acquire::http::Proxy=128.112.139.97:3127 update
Oct 25 17:33:23 <johnx> sure, that should work
Oct 25 17:33:26 <johnx> does it work?
Oct 25 17:33:26 <camel_liu> does not work too
Oct 25 17:33:34 <johnx> 302 found or other error?
Oct 25 17:33:53 <camel_liu> 40% [Connecting to 3127]
Oct 25 17:34:05 <camel_liu>  Could not resolve '3127'
Oct 25 17:34:10 <johnx> ok, that's not the right syntax
Oct 25 17:34:17 <johnx> doesn't work here either
Oct 25 17:35:34 <RST38h> this looks like config file syntax
Oct 25 17:35:38 <RST38h> gimme a moment
Oct 25 17:36:01 <johnx> I need to get some sleep. sorry guys :(
Oct 25 17:36:15 <johnx> good luck
Oct 25 17:36:21 <RST38h> apt.conf: Acquire::http::Proxy "http://repository-cache:3142";
Oct 25 17:36:25 <RST38h> johnx: good night
Oct 25 17:36:26 <camel_liu> Thank you so much
Oct 25 17:36:30 <GAN800> Ugh, I can hear the marching band practice from a mile away.
Oct 25 17:36:35 <camel_liu> good night
Oct 25 17:36:37 <RST38h> the above line has to be inserted into the apt.conf
Oct 25 17:36:41 <johnx> :)
Oct 25 17:37:02 <RST38h> GAN: Lucky. I can hear the traveling circus performance 300 meters from here
Oct 25 17:37:31 <RST38h> One would think that the end of October is where they should find some [warm] home and close up for the winter...
Oct 25 17:37:47 <GAN800> Sounded like one of my neighbors holding a drum circle at first.
Oct 25 17:38:28 <RST38h> Have they at least got any cute girls? =)
Oct 25 17:40:31 <RST38h> Ok, try apt-get -o Acquire::http::Proxy=http://128.112.139.97:3127/ update
Oct 25 17:40:42 <RST38h> And see what happens
Oct 25 17:41:13 <camel_liu> I'm trying
Oct 25 17:41:30 <camel_liu> seems to work
Oct 25 17:41:35 <RST38h> all righty
Oct 25 17:43:53 <camel_liu> Done!
Oct 25 17:44:19 <camel_liu> but http://repository-cache:3142/ cannot
Oct 25 17:44:32 <RST38h> this is just a sample url
Oct 25 17:44:45 <RST38h> do not use it, use the one that ends with :3127
Oct 25 17:46:15 <camel_liu> 3127 Done!  When johnx said "ok, that's not the right syntax"
Oct 25 17:46:31 <RST38h> I have given you the correct syntax
Oct 25 17:46:33 <camel_liu> I began to try the right one
Oct 25 17:47:05 <camel_liu> yes! RST38h gave the same one! Thanks a lot!
Oct 25 17:47:29 <camel_liu> But johnx just left
Oct 25 17:47:55 <RST38h> It is long past midnight where he lives
Oct 25 17:48:13 <camel_liu> Just a few seconds he can get the right answer
Oct 25 17:48:19 <johnx> hmm?
Oct 25 17:49:12 <qwerty12_N800> Hmm, by pinging johnx, he wakes up from his sleep :)
Oct 25 17:49:45 <RST38h> cruel
Oct 25 17:49:54 <johnx> this works for me -> apt-get -o Acquire::http::Proxy=http://128.112.139.97:3127/ update
Oct 25 17:50:35 <camel_liu> He has spared so much time with me about this issue. It's a pity that the right answer comes out just seconds after his leaving.
Oct 25 17:51:02 <camel_liu> Oh, you're still here!
Oct 25 17:51:02 <johnx> I'm just glad it worked
Oct 25 17:51:11 <Stskeeps> johnx: disabling beeps when your nick comes up is a basic thing to be able to sleep :>
Oct 25 17:51:29 <johnx> Stskeeps, yeah, but I might *miss something* O_o
Oct 25 17:51:33 * johnx really sleeps
Oct 25 17:51:52 <camel_liu> johnx, Thanks so much for your effort and time on it.
Oct 25 17:52:16 <camel_liu> It's my first day of IRC
Oct 25 17:52:31 <camel_liu> And this is the right place.
Oct 25 17:53:46 * RST38h should probably release something over the weekend
Oct 25 17:54:08 <camel_liu> Why couldn't find package librsvg2?
Oct 25 17:54:50 <camel_liu>  librsvg2-2
Oct 25 17:55:32 <camel_liu> Is it in extra repo of maemo?
Oct 25 17:59:45 <camel_liu> The reference manual says "Start from librsvg installation. One version is available in maemo.org extras repository."
Oct 25 18:05:43 <camel_liu> Is the package librsvg2-2 in maemo.org extras repository?
Oct 25 18:07:01 <solmumaha> camel_liu: try apt-cache search librsvg
Oct 25 18:07:48 <camel_liu> nothing returned
Oct 25 18:08:36 <solmumaha> seems it's in chinook extras
Oct 25 18:08:41 <camel_liu> When I try 'fakeroot apt-get install librsvg2-2', it returned 'E: Couldn't find package librsvg2-2'
Oct 25 18:09:10 <camel_liu> I followed Diablo's reference manual
Oct 25 18:09:21 <lcuk> camel_liu, would you like me to download the file, print it out place it on a wooden table, photograph it, import it, fax it to you to be imported into Word where you can OCR it and recover the original file?   it will probably be quicker than your current attempt
Oct 25 18:10:35 <RST38h> moo, lcuk
Oct 25 18:10:42 <lcuk> hiya rst
Oct 25 18:11:26 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, could you do that for me please
Oct 25 18:11:31 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: There's one person outstanding who thumbed down krisse's post but hasn't hearted my post ;-)
Oct 25 18:11:33 <lcuk> of course qwerty12_N800
Oct 25 18:11:47 <qwerty12_N800> hehe
Oct 25 18:11:53 <camel_liu> I'm a freshman not only in maemo, but also in Linux. In fact, I just use Linux (Ubuntu) 4 days and the same with maemo.
Oct 25 18:12:30 <lcuk> camel_liu, i really hope your day gets better with maemo - i realise its first day, but most of the time things are smoother than this
Oct 25 18:12:51 * lcuk kicks the internet
Oct 25 18:14:16 <AstralStorm> lcuk: ouch! why did you kick me?
Oct 25 18:14:47 <lcuk> heh cos you wont download fast enough
Oct 25 18:15:08 * RST38h is still deciding whether to thumb down Jaffa's post or heart it
Oct 25 18:15:28 <Jaffa> RST38h: thumb it down then ;-)
Oct 25 18:15:37 <Jaffa> Karma's broken atm anyway
Oct 25 18:15:41 <RST38h> Jaffa: Err on the pessimistic side? =)
Oct 25 18:15:51 <camel_liu> I try to follow ervery instruction of the reference. But there're so many things beyond it.
Oct 25 18:15:54 <Jaffa> RST38h: life sucks ;-)
Oct 25 18:16:08 <RST38h> I mean, it is obvious that nobody needs another Maemo netbook
Oct 25 18:16:18 <RST38h> But the reasons sound wrong
Oct 25 18:16:52 <Jaffa> Feel free to comment. I'd've not bothered posting at all if krisse's blog accepted comments; and it was a somewhat rushed post.
Oct 25 18:17:23 <lcuk> i would like to see nokia/maemo branded software running on the desktop as a companion/manager app for my handheld devices
Oct 25 18:17:23 <RST38h> I think that the whole reason why we have a "netbook" is because ASUS marketing/engineering lacks imagination
Oct 25 18:17:24 <AstralStorm> RST38h: but we'll buy the next one anyway if it's so much better
Oct 25 18:17:32 <lcuk> to do the stuff the tablet IS weaker at
Oct 25 18:17:53 <lcuk> desktop == anything bigger than a tablet
Oct 25 18:17:55 <AstralStorm> lcuk: and it still fails that due to small screen
Oct 25 18:18:00 <camel_liu> It's 2:16 a.m., and I'd better to go to bed. Thanks erveryone here. I experience my first day in IRC channel, and it's so good and better than google.
Oct 25 18:18:01 <RST38h> So they took their old S100/S200 subnotebook model (very small), cheapened it down to <$400 and sold it with Linux
Oct 25 18:18:08 <AstralStorm> lcuk: almost, tiny laptop is fairly portable
Oct 25 18:18:21 <lcuk> AstralStorm, but a small laptop is not a tablet
Oct 25 18:18:22 <AstralStorm> my categorization is this:
Oct 25 18:18:27 <RST38h> As soon as people found out you could run WinXP on that thing, they did and ASUS had to oblige
Oct 25 18:18:59 <RST38h> So, the rule of thumb is: If it looks like a laptop, people will EXPECT it to run Windows and Office, no matter how slowly
Oct 25 18:19:06 <lcuk> people dont expect all of itunes interface on their ipod - itunes allows scope for easier management of media than a tiny handheld can give
Oct 25 18:19:23 <AstralStorm> wearable pc < cellphone < tablet < ... some hole ... < netbook/subnotebook < ... large hole ... < portable desktop < desktop
Oct 25 18:19:25 <Jaffa> RST38h: indeed. I've still got a Psion netBook in the drawer next to me
Oct 25 18:19:30 <RST38h> This means death to Moblin and other mobile Linux initiatives on netbooks
Oct 25 18:19:40 <RST38h> Jaffa: But it is no laptop, it is DIFFERENT
Oct 25 18:19:45 <Jaffa> lcuk: absolutely
Oct 25 18:19:46 <RST38h> Same goes for Nokia E90
Oct 25 18:20:00 <RST38h> Or the original Nokia 7710 with what later became Maemo
Oct 25 18:20:09 <AstralStorm> RST38h: except E90 is a cellphone :>
Oct 25 18:20:11 <Jaffa> You just have to look at the failure of the Foleo to know that people want their "netbooks" to be mini-laptops
Oct 25 18:20:13 <lcuk> jaffa :) your media encoder needs a home ;)
Oct 25 18:20:21 <AstralStorm> it's much more portable
Oct 25 18:20:29 <AstralStorm> now, iPhone broke some stereotypes
Oct 25 18:20:29 <RST38h> Astral: yea, among other things :)
Oct 25 18:20:39 <RST38h> iPhone is really a phone, just well made
Oct 25 18:20:45 <AstralStorm> yes
Oct 25 18:20:56 <AstralStorm> while n8x0 is closer to a fully fledged PC
Oct 25 18:20:58 <RST38h> Jaffa: Let us not bring up Foleo or ANYTHING coming from Palm, ok?
Oct 25 18:21:10 <RST38h> These folks are suicidally stupid, period.
Oct 25 18:21:10 <lcuk> +lurk mode, back later
Oct 25 18:21:11 <Jaffa> :)
Oct 25 18:21:12 <AstralStorm> drop in abiword and gnustep... and you could even do some text tasks
Oct 25 18:21:28 <AstralStorm> not that it'd be convenient
Oct 25 18:21:31 <AstralStorm> more like a stopgap measure
Oct 25 18:21:44 <RST38h> Astral: The moment you claim it is a "PC", all the reviewers out there will ask if it runs Office
Oct 25 18:21:50 <Jaffa> lcuk: maybe not on an N900 (although unless it ships with oodles of storage [and 32GB had been hinted at], transcoding is still useful for saving space)
Oct 25 18:21:53 <RST38h> Astral: So, Nokia never claims it to be a PC
Oct 25 18:22:00 <AstralStorm> which is good
Oct 25 18:22:04 <AstralStorm> it's not one (yet)
Oct 25 18:22:16 <AstralStorm> until it gets 256 MB ram and a shrunk-down OOo
Oct 25 18:22:18 <RST38h> So the idea is not to put Maemo into another small notebook
Oct 25 18:22:33 <AstralStorm> or a comparable office suite (gnome-office anyone?)
Oct 25 18:22:34 <RST38h> It is to put Maemo (or a similar setup) into something like a StarTrek datapad
Oct 25 18:22:42 <AstralStorm> yes
Oct 25 18:22:45 <AstralStorm> this is a niche
Oct 25 18:22:46 <RST38h> And see if this datapad can be effectively used
Oct 25 18:22:51 <lcuk> jaffa, transcoding is still a very practical thing to consider - especially when you consider that HD episodes and movies are here
Oct 25 18:22:54 <AstralStorm> although it does really well as a laptop
Oct 25 18:22:55 <Jaffa> AstralStorm: and OOo will require a heavily updated UI. Again, hints from the EPOC R5 office apps would be useful.
Oct 25 18:22:59 <RST38h> Small notebooks are also a niche so there is nothing wrong with it
Oct 25 18:23:01 <AstralStorm> and mediocre as datapad
Oct 25 18:23:11 <RST38h> The question is whether this "niche" can be expanded
Oct 25 18:23:17 <Jaffa> RST38h: it'd be cool to have a slightly larger, but thinner and lighter tablet which is just like a Star Trek PADD
Oct 25 18:23:20 <Jaffa> lcuk: that's true
Oct 25 18:23:28 <AstralStorm> Jaffa: no, larger wouldn't be pocketable
Oct 25 18:23:32 <AstralStorm> which means failure
Oct 25 18:23:32 <RST38h> Jaffa: Or four iPhones glued together ;)
Oct 25 18:23:33 <lcuk> and battery life
Oct 25 18:23:42 <AstralStorm> unless we get a foldable screen
Oct 25 18:23:49 <RST38h> Big but thin is ok
Oct 25 18:24:00 <RST38h> it is just a little bit dfferent niche
Oct 25 18:24:02 <lcuk> a doublehigh :D  http://liqbase.net/double_tiny.JPG
Oct 25 18:24:20 <AstralStorm> RST38h: there are such tablets on market already
Oct 25 18:24:25 <AstralStorm> fairly expensive though
Oct 25 18:24:29 <RST38h> Astral: Yes, but none are practical
Oct 25 18:24:32 * lcuk is reinserting networking code now :)
Oct 25 18:24:40 <AstralStorm> yes... because they're too large :>
Oct 25 18:24:48 <RST38h> Astral: They usually come with an x86 and Windows, eat through their batteries in <4 hours
Oct 25 18:24:54 <AstralStorm> that too
Oct 25 18:24:58 <RST38h> And even although they are thin, the weight is too much
Oct 25 18:25:25 <AstralStorm> next-gen Intel CPU will be nice though
Oct 25 18:25:29 <RST38h> So, make one <1cm thick and <500g in weight and make it run for 12 hours non stop
Oct 25 18:25:44 <AstralStorm> which means: make n810 with a bigger screen ;P
Oct 25 18:25:46 <RST38h> And call it N999 or whatever
Oct 25 18:25:48 <Jaffa> AstralStorm: as an alongside product with the existingly sized tablets
Oct 25 18:26:04 <RST38h> Better yet: make them in several different sizes, just like datapads
Oct 25 18:26:06 <AstralStorm> make it use 2 batteries (it will probably keep the weight still)
Oct 25 18:26:17 <AstralStorm> haha, that is hard to mass produce
Oct 25 18:26:19 <RST38h> the UI should scale of course
Oct 25 18:26:25 <RST38h> why is it hard to produce?
Oct 25 18:26:28 <AstralStorm> and it should make coffee
Oct 25 18:26:41 <RST38h> You have got a bunch of different standard LCD modules
Oct 25 18:26:44 <lcuk> no, it should have an interface to order coffee
Oct 25 18:26:51 <AstralStorm> yes, you can make like 3 sizes
Oct 25 18:26:53 <RST38h> Order several types of casing, use the same electronics
Oct 25 18:27:20 <RST38h> In order to enable comfortable touch typing, provide tactile feedback like Nokia does in 5800
Oct 25 18:27:26 <AstralStorm> I would like n900 to use space more efficiently
Oct 25 18:27:30 <Jaffa> This larger tablet is, in some ways, what TechCrunch are allegedly trying to do.
Oct 25 18:27:34 <AstralStorm> n810 has a lot of spare
Oct 25 18:27:37 <RST38h> i.e. make it click and bibrate a little
Oct 25 18:27:52 <AstralStorm> (although cooling is a concern, so is weight)
Oct 25 18:27:53 <Jaffa> RST38h: PeterS hinted at haptic over coffee at the summit.
Oct 25 18:28:13 <AstralStorm> Jaffa: hmmmmh
Oct 25 18:28:14 <RST38h> Jaffa: In 5800 they do it in a dead stupid way
Oct 25 18:28:16 <lcuk> thats a lie! there was no coffee at the summit, only beer! ;)
Oct 25 18:28:25 <RST38h> no extra hw required, just using the vibration feature of the phone
Oct 25 18:28:40 <AstralStorm> RST38h: which eats a lot of power
Oct 25 18:29:00 <RST38h> Astral: for very short amounts of time
Oct 25 18:29:12 <AstralStorm> not really - it adds up
Oct 25 18:29:19 <RST38h> Astral: and you can really just replace it with clicking
Oct 25 18:29:23 <AstralStorm> yup
Oct 25 18:29:25 <RST38h> Less comfortabel but will do
Oct 25 18:29:38 <AstralStorm> clicking is there in n810 I think
Oct 25 18:29:46 <AstralStorm> well, keyboard is good
Oct 25 18:29:53 <RST38h> but n810 virtual keyboard is too small
Oct 25 18:29:54 <AstralStorm> screen can do sounds :>
Oct 25 18:30:00 <AstralStorm> virtual? who needs virtual
Oct 25 18:30:02 <RST38h> in bigger size you can make it much better
Oct 25 18:30:14 <AstralStorm> there is a way to make a bigger one
Oct 25 18:30:15 <RST38h> well, I do not expect the datapad to have a real kbd
Oct 25 18:30:20 <AstralStorm> by making it a clamshell
Oct 25 18:30:22 <Jaffa> lcuk: this was at about 08:30 on the Saturday. I think people still had enough beer in their veins ;-)
Oct 25 18:30:32 <lcuk> heh
Oct 25 18:30:33 <AstralStorm> foldable
Oct 25 18:30:42 <RST38h> rollable maybe? ;)
Oct 25 18:30:59 <AstralStorm> nah, there's no way to strengthen such a keyboard
Oct 25 18:31:04 <RST38h> or...mhmmm..screwable
Oct 25 18:31:04 <AstralStorm> it feels bad
Oct 25 18:31:16 <AstralStorm> well, no
Oct 25 18:31:22 <RST38h> I say just make a virtual keyboard on screen and forget aboutit
Oct 25 18:31:34 <RST38h> if it is large and provides SOME feedback, most people will be ok
Oct 25 18:31:34 <AstralStorm> no, they are evil to type
Oct 25 18:31:39 <AstralStorm> and leave smudges
Oct 25 18:31:47 <AstralStorm> and have no ridges to find keys
Oct 25 18:31:47 <lcuk> takes away estate - the 810 might not be perfect kb, but it means i have whole screen to myself
Oct 25 18:31:48 <RST38h> for desktop typing use BT keyboard and place device on a stand
Oct 25 18:32:08 <AstralStorm> actually, I even find Samsung U700 number keys nice
Oct 25 18:32:15 <AstralStorm> and they're flatter than n810's
Oct 25 18:32:16 <RST38h> lcuk: I will not excuse Nokia for not including a decent d-pad upfront.
Oct 25 18:32:25 <RST38h> No way you can persuade me.
Oct 25 18:32:25 <AstralStorm> they have ridges though
Oct 25 18:32:34 <AstralStorm> yes, it's crap
Oct 25 18:32:36 <lcuk> wouldnt try to  - i know everyone is different
Oct 25 18:32:42 <AstralStorm> the dpad should be there
Oct 25 18:32:52 <AstralStorm> alternatively, two separate selectors
Oct 25 18:32:57 <AstralStorm> like on some cell phones
Oct 25 18:32:58 <lcuk> my nokia sits in a much larger form factor thing most of the time anyway - i have dpad always available
Oct 25 18:33:07 <AstralStorm> there is enough space for 2 buttons and enter
Oct 25 18:33:12 <RST38h> but I guess with bigger touch screens you can provide all this stuff onscreen
Oct 25 18:33:20 <AstralStorm> and some slack space could be salvaged
Oct 25 18:33:27 <RST38h> they have to be really bigger though - something like 12" at least
Oct 25 18:33:38 <lcuk> asus eee touchscreen looks nice
Oct 25 18:33:42 <AstralStorm> RST38h: you can emulate a touchpad
Oct 25 18:33:50 <RST38h> AStorm: I do. It sucks.
Oct 25 18:33:50 <AstralStorm> that will work... call it a scrollpad
Oct 25 18:33:55 <RST38h> Want to know why? =)
Oct 25 18:33:59 <AstralStorm> why?
Oct 25 18:34:03 <lcuk> blue maemo :) connect nokia to nokia
Oct 25 18:34:18 <RST38h> 1. No multitouch, so running+shooting does not work in games
Oct 25 18:34:24 <AstralStorm> (what sucks is I have to tap twice to engage it first)
Oct 25 18:34:25 <RST38h> 2. Fingers cover 2/3 of the screen
Oct 25 18:34:30 <AstralStorm> yes
Oct 25 18:34:33 <Kegetys> a small scroll wheel would be nice at the top edge of the device, propably wont happen though since the crappy touch screen keyboards etc. are "cool" now
Oct 25 18:34:36 <AstralStorm> but we were talking about larger screen
Oct 25 18:34:45 <RST38h> 3. The screen in N8x0 is so damn fragile that pressing on it with your fingers is scary
Oct 25 18:34:50 <lcuk> would have to be larger multitouch
Oct 25 18:34:53 <AstralStorm> yes, scroll wheel or scroll buttons even
Oct 25 18:35:05 <AstralStorm> RST38h: you haven't seen a fragile screen yet
Oct 25 18:35:10 <RST38h> If you give me a 12" solid screen with multitouch, it should be completely fine
Oct 25 18:35:11 <AstralStorm> this one is actually fairly sturdy
Oct 25 18:35:25 <RST38h> AStorm: I have, got one on my desk in the ICNexus devkit
Oct 25 18:35:31 <AstralStorm> I wany my ridges
Oct 25 18:35:44 <AstralStorm> I can't find keys w/o them and mispress
Oct 25 18:35:52 <AstralStorm> we need something like M$ Surface 2
Oct 25 18:36:03 <AstralStorm> with Z axis (limited, but enough)
Oct 25 18:36:12 <AstralStorm> even 1-bit would be ok
Oct 25 18:36:22 <RST38h> just a better pressure sensitivity should be sufficient
Oct 25 18:36:41 <RST38h> N8x0 appears to have just 3 levels - touched not touched, and touched with your beak, quickly
Oct 25 18:36:57 <lcuk> actually no, theres about 400  distinct levels
Oct 25 18:37:01 <lcuk> just not much uses it
Oct 25 18:37:15 <lcuk> xsp library makes it available :)
Oct 25 18:37:29 <lcuk> but its uncalibrated (though useful)
Oct 25 18:37:29 <Kegetys> and judging from some drawing app I tried it doesnt seem very reliable
Oct 25 18:37:43 <RST38h> Not having any woodpecker DNA, I have no use for those levels
Oct 25 18:37:52 <lcuk> lol
Oct 25 18:37:53 <Kegetys> as in the sensitivity is entirely different depending on which part of the srceen you poke
Oct 25 18:37:55 <RST38h> Kegetys: exactly
Oct 25 18:38:17 <AstralStorm> yes
Oct 25 18:38:23 <AstralStorm> because it's uncalibrated
Oct 25 18:38:24 <AstralStorm> :)
Oct 25 18:38:33 <lcuk> Kegetys, without proper pressure calibration that will happen anyway
Oct 25 18:38:42 <lcuk> and no touchscreen does that ever anywhere
Oct 25 18:38:47 <AstralStorm> someone should write it
Oct 25 18:38:53 <lcuk> temperature changes alter the differentials
Oct 25 18:39:02 <AstralStorm> we have a temp sensor
Oct 25 18:39:03 <AstralStorm> use it
Oct 25 18:39:04 <lcuk> so you could calibrate it right now and it would drift with use
Oct 25 18:39:17 <lcuk> but the part of the screen under the cpu gets hotter
Oct 25 18:39:22 <AstralStorm> yes
Oct 25 18:39:23 <lcuk> and near the wifi
Oct 25 18:39:26 <AstralStorm> you can correct for that
Oct 25 18:39:30 <AstralStorm> both have temp. sensors
Oct 25 18:39:39 <lcuk> and if the battery is in use
Oct 25 18:39:45 <lcuk> or charging
Oct 25 18:39:48 <AstralStorm> did I mention it's all known?
Oct 25 18:39:54 <AstralStorm> just no one wrote it
Oct 25 18:40:04 <lcuk> theres lots of things and for the fractional difference it would make its really not worth it
Oct 25 18:40:09 <AstralStorm> (in part because there's no API)
Oct 25 18:40:33 <lcuk> your fingers themselves give more variance than a tuned touch can clarify
Oct 25 18:40:45 <AstralStorm> well, still better than not tuned
Oct 25 18:40:49 <lcuk> we arent trying to do electron scanning with it
Oct 25 18:40:56 <AstralStorm> it will at least get 3-5 levels
Oct 25 18:41:11 <AstralStorm> maybe 6
Oct 25 18:41:18 <AstralStorm> which is nice :)
Oct 25 18:41:25 <lcuk> 3-5 levels of what? a touchscreen with over 500 levels
Oct 25 18:41:33 <AstralStorm> so what if you get to scale them?
Oct 25 18:41:42 <lcuk> i KNOW you cannot hold it at a particular level yourself
Oct 25 18:41:44 <AstralStorm> to reduce errors, you have to quantize
Oct 25 18:42:36 <RST38h> Gentlemen, N8x0 has uneven touchscreen sensitivity across the screen
Oct 25 18:42:44 <lcuk> what you are suggesting it like trying to grind a chalkboard to the preciion of a telescope mirror
Oct 25 18:42:49 <RST38h> Nothing temp related, just the way they solder those touch screens in
Oct 25 18:43:13 <AstralStorm> that is mostly constant
Oct 25 18:43:22 <AstralStorm> which means it can be calibrated
Oct 25 18:43:23 <RST38h> for example, the right half of the screen in my 810 is noticeably less sensitive than the left side
Oct 25 18:43:27 <AstralStorm> yes, it is
Oct 25 18:43:32 <AstralStorm> here too :)
Oct 25 18:43:46 <RST38h> AStorm: I do not think it is a constant. We have got several tablets at work (few people bought them too)
Oct 25 18:43:49 <lcuk> my right half works, but thats because ive worn the left half down :(
Oct 25 18:44:00 <lcuk> i cant use my touch on main nokia with fingers anymore
Oct 25 18:44:02 <AstralStorm> right bottom corner is the weakest here
Oct 25 18:44:02 <RST38h> And, when looking at the screen surface, they all seem to be bent in slightly different ways
Oct 25 18:44:12 <RST38h> AStorm: yep
Oct 25 18:44:21 <mariorz> is there some way to get 3g internet with any of the tablets?
Oct 25 18:44:30 <lcuk> use a 3g phone
Oct 25 18:44:31 <RST38h> mariorz: Use a 3G phone as uplink
Oct 25 18:44:33 <AstralStorm> mariorz: yes, if you get a modem or a phone
Oct 25 18:44:39 <mariorz> cool
Oct 25 18:44:41 <AstralStorm> 3g modem should work with external hub
Oct 25 18:45:10 <AstralStorm> (assuming it works under Linux and you're not afraid of compiling the driver)
Oct 25 18:45:35 <AstralStorm> *works in
Oct 25 18:45:36 <mariorz> but none of the tablets have any kind of port to connect a 3g modem directly?
Oct 25 18:45:47 * RST38h asks the Green One to make MTS enable the 3G network before Christmas
Oct 25 18:45:51 <AstralStorm> mariorz: they have an USB hub
Oct 25 18:46:11 <AstralStorm> although with low current (up to 100 mA)
Oct 25 18:46:14 <RST38h> It is beyond bizarre: even freaking Belorussia has got 3G and we haven't
Oct 25 18:46:21 <AstralStorm> so you'll need an external powered hub
Oct 25 18:46:28 <AstralStorm> RST38h: poor you... which country?
Oct 25 18:46:32 <mariorz> AstralStorm: cool, so i jsut need a usb 3g modem? such a thing exists right?
Oct 25 18:46:35 <RST38h> AStorm: .RU
Oct 25 18:46:38 <AstralStorm> I just bought my 3.5G plan
Oct 25 18:46:40 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, kill beeline
Oct 25 18:46:42 <AstralStorm> ahhh, explains it
Oct 25 18:46:46 <lcuk> marcoil, or you could get an n810w which uses wimax
Oct 25 18:46:49 <AstralStorm> it's because of huge distances
Oct 25 18:46:50 <RST38h> qwerty: ah, who cares about beeline
Oct 25 18:46:52 <lcuk> if thats available nearby
Oct 25 18:46:58 <RST38h> beeline isn't even planning it
Oct 25 18:47:00 <AstralStorm> except it usually isn't
Oct 25 18:47:15 <AstralStorm> wimax has to be specifically deployed
Oct 25 18:47:23 <RST38h> AStorm: Doesn't explain shit. In many senses, local cell providers are better than rest of Europe
Oct 25 18:47:23 <AstralStorm> a good 3.5G modem will work on any cell network
Oct 25 18:47:43 <AstralStorm> at worst with 2.5G GPRS
Oct 25 18:48:06 <mariorz> no dice on the wimax here
Oct 25 18:48:10 <AstralStorm> (maybe even plain old TDMA data call)
Oct 25 18:48:29 <AstralStorm> that's the main advantage of cell networks - they have a large degree of backward compatibility
Oct 25 18:48:38 <RST38h> TDMA won't work
Oct 25 18:48:46 <AstralStorm> it will if the modem supports it
Oct 25 18:48:53 <AstralStorm> it's the standard plain old data call
Oct 25 18:48:55 <RST38h> I.e. data calling will work but TDMA will not
Oct 25 18:49:06 <AstralStorm> TDMA is data calling, or sth
Oct 25 18:49:09 <lcuk> mariorz, if you plan on roaming about - the usb modem idea is impractical, look for a phone with bluetooth and a modem that you can tether to
Oct 25 18:49:11 <AstralStorm> or am I mistaken?
Oct 25 18:49:13 <RST38h> AStorm: AMPS
Oct 25 18:49:30 <RST38h> AStorm: TDMA is a previous generation of GSM (which is also TDMA by nature BTW)
Oct 25 18:49:37 <AstralStorm> CDMA is GPRS/EDGE, W-CDMA is UMTS
Oct 25 18:49:39 <RST38h> The data calling over TDMA was called AMPS
Oct 25 18:49:43 <AstralStorm> and HSXPA
Oct 25 18:49:44 <RST38h> AStorm: No
Oct 25 18:49:53 <RST38h> here is how it goes:
Oct 25 18:50:12 <RST38h> Cellular standard: TDMA, media access control: TDMA, data calls: AMPS
Oct 25 18:50:17 <mariorz> lcuk: why is it impractical for roaming?
Oct 25 18:50:18 <AstralStorm> yes
Oct 25 18:50:26 <RST38h> Cellular standard: GSM, media access control: TDMA, data calls: GPRS, EDGE
Oct 25 18:50:32 <AstralStorm> lcuk: no, usb modems are tiny
Oct 25 18:50:41 <AstralStorm> and it will get smaller
Oct 25 18:50:46 <RST38h> Cellular standard: CDMA, media access control: CDMA, data calls: 1xRTT EVDO
Oct 25 18:50:47 <AstralStorm> the only problem is the USB cable
Oct 25 18:50:48 <AstralStorm> :)
Oct 25 18:50:55 <lcuk> because the usb cable has to stick out from behind the kickstand and its ungainly and will pop out and you have ugly thick wires in places you dont need them
Oct 25 18:51:01 <AstralStorm> RST38h: ahha
Oct 25 18:51:05 <AstralStorm> my mistake
Oct 25 18:51:11 <RST38h> Cellular standard: UMTS (aka 3G), media access control: CDMA, data calls: HSDPA/HSUPA
Oct 25 18:51:40 <mariorz> ducktape takes care of that
Oct 25 18:51:45 <mariorz> i kid
Oct 25 18:51:59 <RST38h> Our local problem here was mainly with the political maneuring for 3G band going for years
Oct 25 18:52:13 <AstralStorm> ahh, the usual junk
Oct 25 18:52:15 <RST38h> Too many interests.
Oct 25 18:52:23 <AstralStorm> here, they bought UMTS for a lot of PLN
Oct 25 18:52:38 <AstralStorm> it was expected to be used... sells fairly mediocre for now
Oct 25 18:52:44 <AstralStorm> but is on the increase
Oct 25 18:52:54 <RST38h> What are data rates?
Oct 25 18:53:11 <AstralStorm> up to 7.2Mb HSDPA
Oct 25 18:53:24 <AstralStorm> but usually 2.4 is more like it
Oct 25 18:53:55 <AstralStorm> and not too many modems can do even that
Oct 25 18:54:10 <AstralStorm> so you get 1.sth Mb
Oct 25 18:54:18 <AstralStorm> there's no HSUPA yet
Oct 25 18:54:24 <AstralStorm> so 384 kbps upload
Oct 25 18:54:37 <RST38h> what are the prices though?
Oct 25 18:54:59 <AstralStorm> 30 Euro for 6GB flatrate + wifi hotspots of Orange
Oct 25 18:55:13 <RST38h> Urgh...No wonder it is not being used much
Oct 25 18:55:25 <AstralStorm> (there's also a tiny one at half the price, 1GB no hotspots)
Oct 25 18:55:32 <AstralStorm> (and more expensive prepaid one)
Oct 25 18:55:44 <RST38h> is there ome price per MB?
Oct 25 18:55:53 <AstralStorm> for prepaid, yes
Oct 25 18:56:04 <AstralStorm> for postpaid, after the limit, you get bandwidth-cut
Oct 25 18:56:23 <RST38h> ah
Oct 25 18:56:41 <AstralStorm> and there's also standard cell-phone data rate which is prohibitively expensive
Oct 25 18:56:59 <RST38h> The e30 rate also sounds expensive
Oct 25 18:57:09 <AstralStorm> 0.07 ec / 100 KB is the standard (or so, it's 0.25 pln)
Oct 25 18:57:18 <AstralStorm> 0.07 Euro that it
Oct 25 18:57:23 <AstralStorm> 7 ec
Oct 25 18:57:55 <AstralStorm> prepaid is 0.03 PLN / 100 kb
Oct 25 18:57:56 <RST38h> that is rur24.5/MB
Oct 25 18:57:59 <RST38h> yeek
Oct 25 18:58:13 <AstralStorm> postpaid I'd have to calc
Oct 25 18:58:28 <RST38h> prepaid is still rur10.5/mb
Oct 25 18:58:32 <AstralStorm> but it depends on usage
Oct 25 18:58:53 <AstralStorm> postpaid is actually cheaper than all of these
Oct 25 18:59:05 <AstralStorm> and by a wide margin
Oct 25 18:59:27 <RST38h> yes but you are required to pay e30 :)
Oct 25 18:59:29 <AstralStorm> the 30 Euro one amounts to 366 MB prepaid
Oct 25 18:59:49 <AstralStorm> and the 15 Euro one to 100 MB
Oct 25 18:59:51 <AstralStorm> or so
Oct 25 19:00:02 <RST38h> e15 sounds more realistic really
Oct 25 19:00:09 <AstralStorm> yes, but it's 1GB of transfer
Oct 25 19:00:12 <RST38h> nobody is going to download movies over it anyway
Oct 25 19:00:23 <AstralStorm> enough for small data, but any actual usage will go over the limit
Oct 25 19:00:27 <RST38h> and 1GB/month is sufficient for web browsing, chat, ssh, etc
Oct 25 19:00:30 <AstralStorm> why not? it's very fast :P
Oct 25 19:00:45 <AstralStorm> it's not sufficient for web browsing
Oct 25 19:00:52 <RST38h> small screens, small storage, slow cpus, and it is probably not very fast when trasferring a 250MB movie
Oct 25 19:00:58 <AstralStorm> I grab 40-50 MB/day in web use
Oct 25 19:01:09 <AstralStorm> so, it's not that much
Oct 25 19:01:14 <RST38h> AStorm: I grab <300MB/month :)
Oct 25 19:01:25 <AstralStorm> multiply by 31 :>
Oct 25 19:01:44 <AstralStorm> I counted some light downloads
Oct 25 19:01:55 <AstralStorm> like a PDF here, a larger image there
Oct 25 19:02:00 <RST38h> ah
Oct 25 19:02:04 <AstralStorm> that was the average excluding yt and large downloads
Oct 25 19:02:06 <RST38h> btw, I have all ads disabled
Oct 25 19:02:17 <AstralStorm> ads don't eat that much, I checked
Oct 25 19:02:26 <AstralStorm> one ad eats like 10-30 KB
Oct 25 19:02:48 <AstralStorm> if flash, it eats 300 KB, so disable that
Oct 25 19:03:19 <mariorz> anyone recommend a cheap site selling the n810w?
Oct 25 19:03:19 <AstralStorm> an average web site grabs 150 KB
Oct 25 19:03:32 <RST38h> mariorz: froogle.com
Oct 25 19:03:36 <AstralStorm> :)
Oct 25 19:03:42 <RST38h> AStorm: yes but you probably visit same sites anyway?
Oct 25 19:04:03 <AstralStorm> but the most of the cost is not images
Oct 25 19:04:12 <AstralStorm> and n8x0 doesn't cache these well for some reason
Oct 25 19:04:19 <AstralStorm> (maybe because mmc card is so slow?)
Oct 25 19:04:21 <mariorz> what should i searh for? "nokia n810w"?
Oct 25 19:04:24 <mariorz> nada
Oct 25 19:04:24 <AstralStorm> (or sd card)
Oct 25 19:04:33 <AstralStorm> mariorz: nokia n810 wimax
Oct 25 19:04:55 <mariorz> ahh, thanks
Oct 25 19:05:39 <AstralStorm> some idiots sell it for $1000...
Oct 25 19:06:06 <AstralStorm> it'd have to be gold-plated or have some excellent gps receiver, spare batteries, car charger, mount, all whizbang
Oct 25 19:06:18 <AstralStorm> to be worth anywhere near that amount
Oct 25 19:06:35 <AstralStorm> median would be $450
Oct 25 19:06:36 <MangoFusion> gold plated....hmm\
Oct 25 19:11:42 <AstralStorm> RST38h: there's a certain prepaid that is competitive
Oct 25 19:11:49 <AstralStorm> it costs $19 for 1GB
Oct 25 19:11:55 <AstralStorm> uhm, 20 PLN
Oct 25 19:12:10 <AstralStorm> which means 6 GB cost the same 30 Euro
Oct 25 19:12:18 <AstralStorm> but you can grab less :)
Oct 25 19:12:42 <AstralStorm> Play is running this stunt
Oct 25 19:13:53 <AstralStorm> so, if you only need like 1GB/mo, it will save you a lot of cash
Oct 25 19:15:22 <AstralStorm> unlike Orange's post-paid, it scales linearly (post-paid 12 GB costs 150 PLN, in comparison)
Oct 25 19:18:54 <RST38h> AStorm: Am I correct to assume that the average white-collar salary is e1000..e2500/month ?
Oct 25 19:19:16 <AstralStorm> country median is 2300 PLN/mo
Oct 25 19:19:35 <AstralStorm> white collar is too diverse to specify
Oct 25 19:20:01 <AstralStorm> they start from lowly teachers to very well-paid executives
Oct 25 19:20:05 <AstralStorm> and analysts
Oct 25 19:20:32 <AstralStorm> teachers earn under the average (excluding the top of their career)
Oct 25 19:20:34 <RST38h> I mean computer programmers, low-to-middle level management, advertising guys, etc
Oct 25 19:20:52 <AstralStorm> it depends where, but in the capital, I'd expect 5000 PLN
Oct 25 19:21:03 <AstralStorm> just shy of 2000 Euro
Oct 25 19:21:20 <AstralStorm> and that is a very well-paid job
Oct 25 19:21:26 <AstralStorm> as you can see, 2x average
Oct 25 19:21:47 <RST38h> So, e30 just for the data (given that you already have home connection) is too much, right?
Oct 25 19:21:58 <AstralStorm> it is a lot, but not really too much
Oct 25 19:22:11 <AstralStorm> fast net connections cost similar amount
Oct 25 19:22:13 <RST38h> btw does it include 3g voice? =)
Oct 25 19:22:14 <AstralStorm> and aren't mobile
Oct 25 19:22:21 <AstralStorm> 3g voice is the default now :P
Oct 25 19:22:33 <AstralStorm> if the phone supports 3G, it is used
Oct 25 19:22:40 <RST38h> so e30/mo buys you voice *and* 6GB data?
Oct 25 19:22:42 <AstralStorm> as it's less expensive for the operator
Oct 25 19:22:46 <AstralStorm> not exactly
Oct 25 19:22:57 <AstralStorm> 30/mo buys you 6GB and some 50-60 PLN refund on voice
Oct 25 19:23:08 <RST38h> oh
Oct 25 19:23:09 <AstralStorm> so you get half of 110 PLN back
Oct 25 19:23:33 <RST38h> so the total cell phone bill comes to something like e50?
Oct 25 19:23:41 <AstralStorm> uhm, no
Oct 25 19:23:51 <AstralStorm> it is at least 25 PLN postpaid flatrate
Oct 25 19:24:02 <AstralStorm> but all that flatrate goes into call
Oct 25 19:24:10 <AstralStorm> so you may call up to 75 PLN of calls
Oct 25 19:24:17 <AstralStorm> w/o incurring costs
Oct 25 19:24:18 <RST38h> complicated
Oct 25 19:24:22 <AstralStorm> not really
Oct 25 19:24:28 <AstralStorm> it means if you don't call, you won't gain
Oct 25 19:24:37 <AstralStorm> if you do, then you may call more :P
Oct 25 19:24:46 <RST38h> no but here if I do not call I do not pay anything, same for the data
Oct 25 19:25:09 <AstralStorm> on flatrate, here you pay the baseline flatrate at the very least
Oct 25 19:25:17 <RST38h> and the data is something like e0.11/MB
Oct 25 19:25:29 <AstralStorm> oh, normal price!
Oct 25 19:25:31 <AstralStorm> :)
Oct 25 19:25:58 <RST38h> I literally spend <e10/mo on data (of coure it is plain GPRS but who cares as long as Google Reader works)
Oct 25 19:26:08 <AstralStorm> good for you
Oct 25 19:26:17 <AstralStorm> I will use that connection for normal work though
Oct 25 19:26:27 <AstralStorm> so you see how it would soon pass above 2 GB
Oct 25 19:27:02 <RST38h> yea, for normal usage case I would hit ~300-500MB by browsing etc
Oct 25 19:27:03 <AstralStorm> this means I'm actually not having any unlimited broadband
Oct 25 19:27:27 <RST38h> well, my landline connection also has an 11GB cap for out-of-network traffic but I never hit it
Oct 25 19:27:29 <AstralStorm> (except if I sit by their wifi AP :> this is included and unlimited up-to-11 Mbit
Oct 25 19:27:46 <RST38h> Whatever intellectual property (tm) I need to steal is already inside the local network
Oct 25 19:27:52 <AstralStorm> hehehe
Oct 25 19:27:55 <AstralStorm> yes, that is good
Oct 25 19:28:02 <AstralStorm> I don't steal IP, no need for that
Oct 25 19:28:10 <AstralStorm> MSDNAA is good ;P
Oct 25 19:28:17 <RST38h> Well, I sometimes do watch a movie or two
Oct 25 19:28:27 <AstralStorm> that *I* don't have to download ;P
Oct 25 19:28:42 <AstralStorm> or even if, I won't dl more than a few a month
Oct 25 19:28:44 <RST38h> Aside from that, no much use: I do not do 3d gaming, etc
Oct 25 19:29:18 <AstralStorm> and HD quality is lost anyway on my laptop, so... :P
Oct 25 19:29:41 <AstralStorm> (1280x800 is HD, but then... no reason why I can't watch the movie in DVD quality)
Oct 25 19:30:02 <RST38h> 1280x800 I can watch on TV, if my media PC does not choke on it of course
Oct 25 19:30:11 <AstralStorm> :)
Oct 25 19:31:04 <AstralStorm> anyway, that data plan is excellent and will suffice for all my work
Oct 25 19:31:18 <AstralStorm> I had 512/128 limited to 5G once
Oct 25 19:31:20 <RST38h> If it acts as you landline then indeed
Oct 25 19:31:21 <AstralStorm> and it worked well
Oct 25 19:31:52 <AstralStorm> (that was crummy cable - but it was half the price ;> )
Oct 25 19:31:57 <RST38h> e30..e50 isn't much money if it covers ALL connectivity needs
Oct 25 19:32:39 <AstralStorm> well, you can get landline for E30 of 4Mbit/1Mbit, cable
Oct 25 19:32:44 <AstralStorm> but it can't reach here
Oct 25 19:32:59 <AstralStorm> unlimited, 3 IPs
Oct 25 19:33:12 * RST38h pays around $15 for 100Mbaud bidirectional
Oct 25 19:33:19 <AstralStorm> mmmh
Oct 25 19:33:25 <AstralStorm> maybe I should learn Russian
Oct 25 19:33:30 <RST38h> Outer world is connected to it via 4Mbaud though
Oct 25 19:33:34 <AstralStorm> ahha
Oct 25 19:33:38 <AstralStorm> so it's the same :)
Oct 25 19:33:57 <AstralStorm> although much cheaper
Oct 25 19:33:58 <RST38h> if I have to go outside then yes but all the heavy IP crap is already sucked in =)
Oct 25 19:34:27 <RST38h> They won't give me dedicated IP unless I run VPN though, so it is all behind NAT
Oct 25 19:34:31 <AstralStorm> academic link? (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)
Oct 25 19:34:50 <RST38h> no, the usual stuff, handled by Golden Telecom I think
Oct 25 19:34:56 <AstralStorm> hmmh
Oct 25 19:35:01 <AstralStorm> ah, it's Russia again
Oct 25 19:35:08 <AstralStorm> no IP is safe there
Oct 25 19:35:11 <RST38h> it is just that the city itself has been wired optically for years now
Oct 25 19:35:25 <AstralStorm> oh, that kind of MAN would be very nice to have
Oct 25 19:35:28 <AstralStorm> nothing like it here
Oct 25 19:35:34 <RST38h> not every spot, but most
Oct 25 19:35:47 <AstralStorm> they are thinking about building such a MAN on WiMax
Oct 25 19:35:57 <AstralStorm> but I suspect 4G will come first
Oct 25 19:35:58 <RST38h> 2-3 WiMax installaitons here as well
Oct 25 19:36:04 <RST38h> None mobile though, AFAIK
Oct 25 19:36:57 <AstralStorm> RST38h: as to that post-paid - earlier you could grab a cellphone with a very tiny baseline voice postpaid rate
Oct 25 19:37:04 <AstralStorm> like 5 PLN
Oct 25 19:37:18 <AstralStorm> not now anymore it seems
Oct 25 19:37:27 <RST38h> That is how it seems to work in .LT
Oct 25 19:37:50 <AstralStorm> I pay 35 mine
Oct 25 19:37:51 <RST38h> Here too - a SIM card costs you around $7 and this money goes directly onto your account
Oct 25 19:37:56 <AstralStorm> maybe I'll switch to 25 later
Oct 25 19:37:59 <AstralStorm> after a year
Oct 25 19:38:09 <RST38h> The only difference is that they require your passport here
Oct 25 19:38:12 <AstralStorm> it's the same here ,that base rate goes to your account
Oct 25 19:38:23 <RST38h> In .LT you can buy SIM card at the supermarket register
Oct 25 19:38:27 <AstralStorm> they require a passport, drivers licence or identity card
Oct 25 19:38:52 <AstralStorm> and a way of proving you can pay
Oct 25 19:39:09 <RST38h> Nothing like that here - if you can't pay, the phone goes dormant =)
Oct 25 19:39:19 <AstralStorm> can be: gas bill, bank account <list?>, media bill, such
Oct 25 19:39:38 <qwerty12_N800> uk ftw
Oct 25 19:39:39 <AstralStorm> here too, but that's needed if you get a subsidized phone
Oct 25 19:39:40 <qwerty12_N800> http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/free-pay-as-you-go-sim-cards/
Oct 25 19:39:54 <AstralStorm> not if you pay fully for the phone
Oct 25 19:40:00 <RST38h> No subsidized phones here, afaik
Oct 25 19:40:22 <kkrusty> qwerty12_N800: you use tmobile?
Oct 25 19:40:22 <AstralStorm> qwerty12_N800: we have that here too, like Orange Mix
Oct 25 19:40:25 <RST38h> And every blonde on the subway has an iPhone now :)
Oct 25 19:40:30 <RST38h> (it was N95 before)
Oct 25 19:40:34 <AstralStorm> but you can't get that data flatrate with it
Oct 25 19:40:45 <qwerty12_N800> kkrusty, yeah, was on orange before
Oct 25 19:40:52 <AstralStorm> you can get data prepaid though
Oct 25 19:41:12 <RST38h> qwerty: Looks ok except for SMS rates, but I guess they do not have specials?
Oct 25 19:41:41 <RST38h> like "3 family member numbers at 5p/minute rate"?
Oct 25 19:42:08 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, their sms rates are brilliant. one of their plans has 3p texts
Oct 25 19:42:34 <AstralStorm> 3p... nice
Oct 25 19:42:45 <AstralStorm> but mine is the equivalent in gr (0.01 PLN)
Oct 25 19:42:50 <RST38h> qwerty: That is where it is important to remember that there are ICQ clients for mobiles ;)
Oct 25 19:42:58 <AstralStorm> and it also takes from base rate :)
Oct 25 19:43:10 <RST38h> qwerty: And those are charged per megabyte ;)
Oct 25 19:43:29 <AstralStorm> and I get a bunch of free texts too
Oct 25 19:43:52 <orifice> is mplayer's speed nominally slow for a standard def xvid file ?
Oct 25 19:43:55 <AstralStorm> or can buy a pack of discounted texts
Oct 25 19:43:58 * RST38h never texts: it is easier to either run ICQ or login via SSH and use IRC
Oct 25 19:44:02 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, people i know don't use icq (doubt they have heard of it either) but you can bet they are texting all the time
Oct 25 19:44:07 <RST38h> orifice: yes
Oct 25 19:44:08 <AstralStorm> orifice: no, it's ok if the resolution isn't too high
Oct 25 19:44:16 <AstralStorm> 600x380 will work ok
Oct 25 19:44:22 <orifice> ok
Oct 25 19:44:26 <orifice> no 640x480 though ?
Oct 25 19:44:28 <AstralStorm> assuming you don't use some advanced features like qpel
Oct 25 19:44:40 <AstralStorm> 640x388 max afaicr
Oct 25 19:44:45 <RST38h> qwerty: Bad habit, start proselytizing now!
Oct 25 19:44:47 <AstralStorm> but that's due to LCD driver
Oct 25 19:44:59 <orifice> I was just going to ask what the bottle neck is
Oct 25 19:45:09 <AstralStorm> the CPU use is ok even at 700-something
Oct 25 19:45:11 <RST38h> orifice: CPU, display subsystem
Oct 25 19:45:22 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, i don't use icq either, irc & msn for me :p
Oct 25 19:45:23 <AstralStorm> CPU is usually powerful enough for anything except H.324
Oct 25 19:45:27 <RST38h> AStorm: If CPU is missing frames (and it does) it is not ok :(
Oct 25 19:45:41 <RST38h> qwerty: move them to msn then
Oct 25 19:45:42 <AstralStorm> it very rarely does, yes, at DVD resolution
Oct 25 19:45:45 <RST38h> irc is knda hardcore
Oct 25 19:45:51 <AstralStorm> on high-motion
Oct 25 19:46:03 <qwerty12_N800> AstralStorm, doesn't help that it's connected with low speed serial interface too :(
Oct 25 19:46:13 <RST38h> dunno, mises frames terribly on my tablet
Oct 25 19:46:13 <AstralStorm> yes, LCD driver is slow :)
Oct 25 19:46:19 <AstralStorm> mine doesn't
Oct 25 19:46:24 <AstralStorm> but it depends on the movie
Oct 25 19:46:46 <RST38h> time to upload new VGB to extras
Oct 25 19:46:47 <AstralStorm> there's also the problem that SD cards / MMC chip aren't fast
Oct 25 19:46:49 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, actually, people on 3 (main 3g network here) get free msn
Oct 25 19:46:52 <AstralStorm> you can get up to 1 MB/s
Oct 25 19:47:00 <AstralStorm> from SD card
Oct 25 19:47:10 <BugBlue> ah
Oct 25 19:47:12 <RST38h> qwerty: they also get packet filtering then?
Oct 25 19:47:21 <BugBlue> gpsd on maemo 4.1 doesn't report M=2 anymore
Oct 25 19:47:32 <AstralStorm> M=2? what is that?
Oct 25 19:47:39 <BugBlue> 2 = good for latitude/longitude
Oct 25 19:47:50 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, probably, but it's free, who complains? :p
Oct 25 19:47:50 <BugBlue> 3 = good for altitude/climb too
Oct 25 19:47:58 <AstralStorm> uhm, it does report that
Oct 25 19:48:06 <AstralStorm> I checked, it sometimes grabs a 2D fix
Oct 25 19:48:09 <RST38h> qwerty: No, if they get packet filtering and can't freely ue TCP/IP apps, then I would care
Oct 25 19:48:10 <BugBlue> not via gps_saver
Oct 25 19:48:17 <AstralStorm> hmm, maybe there not
Oct 25 19:48:21 <AstralStorm> that'd be a bug
Oct 25 19:48:25 <BugBlue> let's replace the new gpsd with the old one
Oct 25 19:48:34 <AstralStorm> (and see stuff break?)
Oct 25 19:48:40 <BugBlue> I have 2 N810's here almost at the same place
Oct 25 19:48:42 <AstralStorm> no, diablo slightly improved lock speeds
Oct 25 19:48:46 <BugBlue> AstralStorm: maybe, maybe not...
Oct 25 19:48:52 <RST38h> Slightly?
Oct 25 19:48:56 <AstralStorm> yes
Oct 25 19:48:58 <AstralStorm> on cold fix
Oct 25 19:49:02 <AstralStorm> on hot fix, a lot :)
Oct 25 19:49:03 <BugBlue> a little bit...
Oct 25 19:49:06 <RST38h> If you have previous data, AGPS will lock about 3 times faster for me
Oct 25 19:49:08 <BugBlue> but I don't worry about that
Oct 25 19:49:16 <AstralStorm> RST38h: AGPS is nonexistent here
Oct 25 19:49:19 <qwerty12_N800> BugBlue, (ouch). build chinook's osso-gpsd in diablo sdk at least
Oct 25 19:49:20 <BugBlue> AGPS is real faster, but I have gps on 24/7
Oct 25 19:49:36 <BugBlue> qwerty12_N800: we'll see :P
Oct 25 19:49:36 <RST38h> AStorm: Hehe, it is not THAT agps :)
Oct 25 19:49:49 <AstralStorm> ah, you mean that one where ephemeris is stored?
Oct 25 19:49:51 <RST38h> AStorm: Tablet AGPS is not the same as the real AGPS
Oct 25 19:49:56 <AstralStorm> yes, that's the main stuff
Oct 25 19:50:07 <AstralStorm> that's why hot fixes are so fast now
Oct 25 19:50:15 <RST38h> AStorm: Yes, this one lets you pinpoint your location on the map and loads metadata off a web server
Oct 25 19:50:16 <AstralStorm> (and some cold too, if ephemeris is fresh)
Oct 25 19:50:24 <AstralStorm> RST38h: how?!
Oct 25 19:50:29 <AstralStorm> tell me, how to do that
Oct 25 19:50:30 <RST38h> AStorm: You did not know? :)
Oct 25 19:50:34 <AstralStorm> as I mentioned, I have a plan
Oct 25 19:50:40 <AstralStorm> :)
Oct 25 19:50:45 <BugBlue> Nokia-N810-50-2:~# scp /usr/sbin/gpsd root@192.168.2.252:/usr/sbin/gpsd
Oct 25 19:50:45 <RST38h> AStorm: Ok, go to app manager and install AGPS beta app
Oct 25 19:50:50 <BugBlue> let's see what happens..
Oct 25 19:50:55 <AstralStorm> RST38h: mhm, thanks!
Oct 25 19:50:57 <qwerty12_N800> BugBlue, btw, did you find my aircrack-ng build? :)
Oct 25 19:51:12 <BugBlue> qwerty12_N800: I didn't yet.. I didn't look for aircrack-ng yet...
Oct 25 19:51:15 <RST38h> AStorm: then run it and try finding your location there (good to know your lat lon beforehand though)
Oct 25 19:51:15 <BugBlue> where did you hide it?
Oct 25 19:51:25 <RST38h> AStorm: Save location, run Mapper, see what happens
Oct 25 19:51:33 <AstralStorm> RST38h: how precise I have to be with lat/lon?
Oct 25 19:51:40 <qwerty12_N800> BugBlue, hehe, internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=190941
Oct 25 19:51:46 <AstralStorm> because I know +/- 10 meters
Oct 25 19:52:25 <AstralStorm> (can just point it on map and copy)
Oct 25 19:52:35 <RST38h> AStorm: anything in ~100km circle will do
Oct 25 19:52:41 <AstralStorm> also, why it's not integrated with mapper yet?
Oct 25 19:52:47 <RST38h> It does not have to be
Oct 25 19:52:57 <AstralStorm> it could ask you to pick approx. location
Oct 25 19:52:59 <RST38h> This little app simply stores location somewhere in config files
Oct 25 19:53:04 <AstralStorm> mhmh
Oct 25 19:53:12 <AstralStorm> but what if location changes more than 100 km?
Oct 25 19:53:17 <RST38h> And Diablo GPSD will use it AND your network connection to fetch ephemeris etc
Oct 25 19:53:22 <AstralStorm> :)
Oct 25 19:53:30 <RST38h> AStorm: It will keep track of your location
Oct 25 19:53:37 <AstralStorm> if the gps is off too?
Oct 25 19:53:40 <AstralStorm> impossible ;P
Oct 25 19:53:42 <RST38h> not in that case
Oct 25 19:53:57 <RST38h> so let us hope you do not travel that far often
Oct 25 19:53:59 <AstralStorm> yes, that's why it'd be nice to have some support in mapper
Oct 25 19:54:03 <AstralStorm> I do, by a train
Oct 25 19:54:05 <l7> hrm, bluetooth keyboard support seems to be much better in Diablo
Oct 25 19:54:07 <AstralStorm> not too often though
Oct 25 19:54:08 <RST38h> mapper will make use of it
Oct 25 19:54:22 <AstralStorm> I mean, some support for picking that location
Oct 25 19:54:24 <RST38h> Actually, I think even 300km will do the job but you are free to experiment
Oct 25 19:54:25 <l7> i remember in chinook it would type like thisssss
Oct 25 19:54:35 <RST38h> l7: Feels exactly the same to me
Oct 25 19:54:35 <AstralStorm> like, "point somewhere estimated where you are"
Oct 25 19:54:45 <RST38h> still slow, laggy, and repeats letters
Oct 25 19:54:53 <AstralStorm> and then it feeds the data to AGPSd
Oct 25 19:54:54 <RST38h> AStorm: That is what that AGPS app is for
Oct 25 19:54:56 <BugBlue> oke now I have to wait for a GPS fix, a real one...
Oct 25 19:55:03 <RST38h> AStorm: That is exactly what it does
Oct 25 19:55:05 <l7> RST38h: it still repeats letters for you?
Oct 25 19:55:06 <AstralStorm> RST38h: but it doesn't show you the map, does it?
Oct 25 19:55:13 <RST38h> AStorm: It does
Oct 25 19:55:17 <AstralStorm> mmmmh
Oct 25 19:55:19 <RST38h> install and try it
Oct 25 19:55:24 <l7> i guess i get it a little now, but much less
Oct 25 19:55:34 * RST38h would actually get this information from the clock app but Nokia decided differently
Oct 25 19:55:41 <RST38h> l7: yep
Oct 25 19:55:46 <l7> is there a way to slow the repeat rate?
Oct 25 19:56:02 <RST38h> that is kbd dependent I think
Oct 25 19:56:02 <l7> RST38h: which keyboard do you have?
Oct 25 19:56:06 <RST38h> Apple
Oct 25 19:56:08 <BugBlue> AstralStorm: the problem it seems to have is that it doesn't feed the 2D (less accurate but much often updated) data if you also have 3D data (takes more time to compute and it's that much updated)
Oct 25 19:56:11 <l7> oh
Oct 25 19:56:22 <l7> RST38h: the thin aluminum one?
Oct 25 19:56:27 <AstralStorm> BugBlue: ahha!
Oct 25 19:56:32 <AstralStorm> that's a bug, report please
Oct 25 19:56:38 <RST38h> yep
Oct 25 19:56:42 <l7> i was thinking of getting that one to use with my tablet, perhaps i shouldn't then
Oct 25 19:56:47 <BugBlue> I replaced the gps_saver with the old version, doesn't help.. I replaced the gps driver, didn't fix it
Oct 25 19:56:55 <BugBlue> not I hope that replacing gpsd would fix it
Oct 25 19:57:01 <AstralStorm> it might
Oct 25 19:57:16 <BugBlue> than it makes sense to do diff, fix it and post a patch
Oct 25 19:57:18 <AstralStorm> RST38h: the app is in maemo-devel?
Oct 25 19:57:26 <RST38h> AStorm: should be in plain extras
Oct 25 19:57:31 <AstralStorm> ok
Oct 25 19:57:31 <RST38h> lemme check
Oct 25 19:57:50 <BugBlue> AstralStorm: but I can tell if I get a fix in a few minutes...
Oct 25 19:58:03 <AstralStorm> BugBlue: :)
Oct 25 19:58:15 <BugBlue> (however maybe I should put my N810 outside instead before the window, that would speed things up, except my beer drinking...)
Oct 25 19:58:23 <RST38h> app name is agps-ui
Oct 25 19:58:25 <BugBlue> mmm... faster code fix or more beer...
Oct 25 19:58:45 <AstralStorm> BugBlue: I recommend telling Maemo Bugs about that
Oct 25 19:58:50 <AstralStorm> they should promptly fix it
Oct 25 19:59:06 <AstralStorm> btw, someone could rebuild xournal
Oct 25 19:59:13 <BugBlue> AstralStorm: I'd rather search the problem first.. maybe it's some ignorant setting from me somewhere...
Oct 25 19:59:14 <AstralStorm> as the version in extras is ubercrashy
Oct 25 19:59:21 <RST38h> the devel version of xournal is crashy
Oct 25 19:59:26 <RST38h> the extras version is fine
Oct 25 19:59:28 <AstralStorm> yes yes
Oct 25 19:59:33 <AstralStorm> extras is -chinook one?
Oct 25 19:59:36 <AstralStorm> I'll check
Oct 25 19:59:36 <RST38h> the devel version is some experimental shitpile
Oct 25 19:59:40 <AstralStorm> mhm
Oct 25 19:59:46 <AstralStorm> it should be axed then
Oct 25 19:59:48 <AstralStorm> known broken
Oct 25 19:59:59 <RST38h> it is devel, whaddayawant?
Oct 25 20:00:10 <AstralStorm> no broken stuff :)
Oct 25 20:00:19 <AstralStorm> it's as simple as rm
Oct 25 20:01:10 <AstralStorm> so, this AGPS is like QuickGPSFix of TomTom :)
Oct 25 20:01:14 <RST38h> Better bug the author to finish it
Oct 25 20:01:16 <AstralStorm> excellent thing
Oct 25 20:01:20 <AstralStorm> RST38h: that too
Oct 25 20:01:31 <AstralStorm> but he should axe the non-working version as well
Oct 25 20:02:27 <AstralStorm> hmm
Oct 25 20:02:35 <AstralStorm> this A-GPS map has too large scale
Oct 25 20:02:57 <AstralStorm> very hard to pick Poland ;P
Oct 25 20:03:41 <AstralStorm> RST38h: will the mapper now use it if it's set to Bluetooth? :)
Oct 25 20:04:43 <RST38h> AStorm: with external gps? no :)
Oct 25 20:04:58 <RST38h> the map sucks, I know, go by lat lon
Oct 25 20:05:25 <RST38h> As you already set up your city in the clock settings, they could just initialize agps with that for starters
Oct 25 20:05:58 <AstralStorm> seems it does, I got 9 sats in field
Oct 25 20:11:47 <BugBlue> mmm
Oct 25 20:12:00 <BugBlue> I accidently deleted about 1.000.000 records of gps log :P
Oct 25 20:12:04 <BugBlue> in my database
Oct 25 20:12:30 <BugBlue> ... thank god for backups ...
Oct 25 20:12:58 <RST38h> Ok, whoever wants the hot new version of VGB, it is at http://fms.komkon.org/VGB/
Oct 25 20:13:19 <RST38h> Will appear in the Extras on Monday, if Cthulhu is merciful
Oct 25 20:13:59 <qwerty12_N800> thanks, need it to play cokemon :)
Oct 25 20:14:25 <RST38h> This is VGB (not VGBA) so your cokemon will be somewhat oldskool
Oct 25 20:14:25 <AstralStorm> almost violating two trademarks at once... brilliant
Oct 25 20:14:59 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, i know but the jokes still get me :/
Oct 25 20:15:31 <RST38h> two trademark violations and a reference to controlled substance
Oct 25 20:15:42 <RST38h> are you sure this is still safe in the UK? =)
Oct 25 20:16:19 <AstralStorm> ok, now I get much better signal from sats, almost got 2D fix now
Oct 25 20:16:25 <qwerty12_N800> i've probably revealed worse on this channel :p
Oct 25 20:16:27 <AstralStorm> good thing
Oct 25 20:16:34 <AstralStorm> (and it's a first time cold fix)
Oct 25 20:17:06 <RST38h> don't tell me you are outside, in October, at 23:18
Oct 25 20:17:09 <AstralStorm> but that gpsd bug indeed is visible :>
Oct 25 20:17:12 <RST38h> and using irc
Oct 25 20:17:17 <AstralStorm> RST38h: no, it's by the window
Oct 25 20:17:24 <AstralStorm> behind it even
Oct 25 20:17:33 <AstralStorm> closed
Oct 25 20:17:34 <RST38h> that's probably suboptimal...
Oct 25 20:17:38 <AstralStorm> yup
Oct 25 20:17:43 <AstralStorm> but it means this thing is golden
Oct 25 20:18:12 <RST38h> yea, there is some golden plating on that TI turd now...
Oct 25 20:18:20 <RST38h> what is the gpsd bug btw?
Oct 25 20:18:21 <AstralStorm> not on TI
Oct 25 20:18:25 <RST38h> in plain english?
Oct 25 20:18:45 <AstralStorm> RST38h: that it doesn't send 2D data it can get from TI chip much more often than 3D data
Oct 25 20:18:47 <RST38h> The 5300 GPS chip in the tablets is TI
Oct 25 20:18:50 <AstralStorm> it did before
Oct 25 20:19:00 <RST38h> Oh, it ignores 2D fixes?
Oct 25 20:19:05 <AstralStorm> it seems
Oct 25 20:19:21 <AstralStorm> I mean, it makes use of them, sends them if no 3D fix is available
Oct 25 20:19:25 <AstralStorm> but not otherwise
Oct 25 20:19:32 <RST38h> isn't that ok?
Oct 25 20:19:34 <AstralStorm> no
Oct 25 20:19:40 <AstralStorm> because 2D fix send rate is higher
Oct 25 20:19:45 <AstralStorm> :)
Oct 25 20:20:00 <AstralStorm> this means the 2D fix is less precise now than before
Oct 25 20:20:06 <RST38h> ah, so if there are 2d fix changes between 3d fixes, they are ignored?
Oct 25 20:20:26 <AstralStorm> yes
Oct 25 20:20:49 <RST38h> well, it is less problematic than I tought...
Oct 25 20:21:08 <AstralStorm> still bad :)
Oct 25 20:21:13 <AstralStorm> affects accuracy
Oct 25 20:21:31 <AstralStorm> anyway, seems like I can only grab 2 sats out of this window ;P
Oct 25 20:21:58 <RST38h> notice that it is not the window you have to worry about but the walls on all the other sides :)
Oct 25 20:22:33 <RST38h> there is 75% chance the other satellites are there somewhere
Oct 25 20:22:39 <AstralStorm> I checked
Oct 25 20:22:47 <AstralStorm> they are too much above me
Oct 25 20:22:51 <BugBlue> AstralStorm: my problem is that with the old data I can do this: http://clamans.mobach.nl/viewer/?saved=4a3c14ce79d03da8ed72bbb8cb6be653 and the new looks like: http://clamans.mobach.nl/viewer/?saved=268727bf5936f40be0a15707fdbebc8a
Oct 25 20:23:17 <AstralStorm> I get about 45 degree view horizontal, 60 vertical
Oct 25 20:23:36 <BugBlue> mm old gps_saver, old gpsd, old gpsdriver... problem not solved
Oct 25 20:23:36 <AstralStorm> BugBlue: report it please, I can't fix it :)
Oct 25 20:23:44 <BugBlue> AstralStorm: I know..
Oct 25 20:24:49 <AstralStorm> wrong, 90 degree horizontal, 120 degree vertical
Oct 25 20:25:22 <AstralStorm> so, if I rotate the receiver some, I should catch another sat
Oct 25 20:26:36 <AstralStorm> blah, why didn't nokia expose that GPS antenna... I could attach something better
Oct 25 20:27:47 <AstralStorm> there is an actual mini-something pin socket inside
Oct 25 20:27:55 <AstralStorm> so you could have an external antenna
Oct 25 20:28:09 <AstralStorm> (for wifi too)
Oct 25 20:29:44 <BugBlue> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.FL <-- that one?
Oct 25 20:29:46 <AstralStorm> better than 3 cm strip of gold
Oct 25 20:29:51 <AstralStorm> yes, that one
Oct 25 20:30:06 <BugBlue> that's a nice standard... you really do have antennas for it :D
Oct 25 20:31:42 <BugBlue> LOL
Oct 25 20:31:43 <BugBlue> RP-SMA connectors are widely used by Wi-Fi equipment manufacturers to comply with specific local regulations, e.g. the FCC, which are designed to make it difficult for consumers to connect antennas with gain and thereby breach compliance
Oct 25 20:31:52 <BugBlue> I do like the FCC
Oct 25 20:32:26 <AstralStorm> it doesn't matter for GPS
Oct 25 20:32:59 <AstralStorm> all it needs is a large antenna with wide sight
Oct 25 20:33:07 <AstralStorm> selectivity doesn't have to be too high
Oct 25 20:33:22 <RST38h> Like your body for example...
Oct 25 20:33:43 <AstralStorm> no, body can't receive these frequencies
Oct 25 20:33:47 <AstralStorm> they're absorbed by water
Oct 25 20:33:57 <AstralStorm> or at least distorted
Oct 25 20:34:07 <RST38h> you have got skin and whatever is inside skin
Oct 25 20:34:07 <AstralStorm> that's why cloudy sky isn't good ;P
Oct 25 20:34:17 <AstralStorm> which is 80% water?
Oct 25 20:34:18 <AstralStorm> ;P
Oct 25 20:34:22 <RST38h> in this case we are talking about skin surface only
Oct 25 20:34:30 <AstralStorm> not really
Oct 25 20:34:34 <RST38h> well it depends on how wet your skin is
Oct 25 20:34:43 <AstralStorm> it doesn't conduct well anyway
Oct 25 20:34:46 <RST38h> check out cases where people get hit by lightning
Oct 25 20:35:01 <AstralStorm> wet will screen GPS signal and not conduct
Oct 25 20:35:03 <RST38h> lightning usually goes through skin only
Oct 25 20:35:32 <AstralStorm> ok, now it has 6 sats :>
Oct 25 20:36:11 <AstralStorm> signal levels are just above 20 though
Oct 25 20:36:14 <AstralStorm> which is weak
Oct 25 20:36:44 <AstralStorm> it should grab fix, now has 7 sats
Oct 25 20:38:51 <AstralStorm> blah, I should just buy a good GPS receiver
Oct 25 20:39:13 <AstralStorm> any recommendations? (small size and long battery life are much appreciated)
Oct 25 20:39:30 <BugBlue> I once bought the cheapest once..
Oct 25 20:39:34 <BugBlue> not even SIRF3
Oct 25 20:39:50 <BugBlue> FOUND IT!
Oct 25 20:39:54 <BugBlue> it's libgps
Oct 25 20:39:57 <AstralStorm> :>
Oct 25 20:40:01 <AstralStorm> ok, excellent
Oct 25 20:40:05 <AstralStorm> now, report ASAP :)
Oct 25 20:40:10 <BugBlue> hang on
Oct 25 20:40:18 <BugBlue> I do want to move the other software back first
Oct 25 20:40:21 <BugBlue> to be 100% sure
Oct 25 20:40:25 <RST38h> AStorm: I have got a tiny Holux
Oct 25 20:40:32 <RST38h> SIRFIII based, works.
Oct 25 20:40:35 <AstralStorm> are MTK recvs good?
Oct 25 20:40:42 <RST38h> But don't expect it to work inside buildings
Oct 25 20:40:49 <RST38h> MTK is cheap and widepread right now
Oct 25 20:40:59 <RST38h> Some say it is better than SIRF but I would stay with SIRF
Oct 25 20:41:30 <RST38h> Just because for MTK it is just one direction (they produce DVD, MP3, etc chips) while SIRF is GPS specific
Oct 25 20:41:32 <BugBlue> rebooting my N810 for the Xth time... :D
Oct 25 20:42:14 <AstralStorm> RST38h: 20h battery life sure is sexy
Oct 25 20:42:28 <AstralStorm> it would be even better if that recv supported USB charging
Oct 25 20:42:43 <AstralStorm> my car has ports
Oct 25 20:42:57 <RST38h> Holux 240 supports USB charging
Oct 25 20:44:01 <AstralStorm> or even 32hr :)
Oct 25 20:44:42 <AstralStorm> http://www.buygpsnow.com/Qstarz-BT-Q890-Super-High-66-CH-Nano-Bluetooth-GPS-Receiver-%2866-ch-MTK--1-5Hz-User-Configurable--Dual-USBBluetooth%29__1006.aspx
Oct 25 20:44:53 <AstralStorm> 12h, but at what size... excellent sensitivity too :>
Oct 25 20:46:24 <RST38h> looks bigger than Holux
Oct 25 20:46:30 <RST38h> but more versatile
Oct 25 20:53:38 <AstralStorm> bigger than this one?
Oct 25 20:53:46 <AstralStorm> http://www.buygpsnow.com/Holux_M241_Bluetooth_GPS_Datalogger.aspx
Oct 25 21:05:09 * BugBlue off 2 bed
Oct 25 21:05:45 <BugBlue> AstralStorm: I do have a BT one that does charge over USB... a real cheap one... can tell you more tomorrow
Oct 25 21:07:44 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i so just did a good old fashioned community suicide by this post probably
Oct 25 21:07:48 <Stskeeps> :P
Oct 25 21:09:31 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: but let's see how the community reacts & quim, - i think i may have done a bit too much of conciousness streaming there
Oct 25 21:10:44 <ShadowJK_> link?
Oct 25 21:10:57 <Stskeeps> not on archive yet
Oct 25 21:10:58 <Stskeeps> sec
Oct 25 21:11:13 <Stskeeps> wtf
Oct 25 21:11:46 <qwerty12_N800> not in my inbox :p
Oct 25 21:12:45 <Stskeeps> .. yeah, just remembered to actually confirm my subscription
Oct 25 21:13:43 <Stskeeps> there, http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-October/035409.html
Oct 25 21:15:00 <Stskeeps> im off to bed else gf will kill me
Oct 25 21:15:03 <Stskeeps> bbl
Oct 25 21:20:38 <ShadowJK_> There's one big thing that determined winners and losers in the explosion of personal computers that happened throughout the 80s, the systems with the most programs won :P
Oct 25 21:22:39 <Jaffa> True; but which came first ;-)
Oct 25 21:22:53 <Jaffa> i.e. which is cause; and which is effect
Oct 25 21:22:58 * Jaffa sleeps.
Oct 25 21:23:42 <AstralStorm> as for the GPS recv. it has to be small, esp. thin
Oct 25 21:23:48 <AstralStorm> thicker than n810 = nono
Oct 25 21:50:43 * Mousey finds datafiles for openttd.. discovers life really is worth living
Oct 25 22:02:02 <orangey> how can I debug the SIP software?
Oct 25 22:02:10 <orangey> I'm getting a crazy number of incomplete calls
Oct 25 22:24:57 * Mousey goes on an applicatons/games installing binge!
Oct 25 22:24:59 <Mousey> ^_^
Oct 25 22:29:43 <TokyoDan> Mornin' everybody. What shells are used in N810 user and root accounts? Bourne, bash, korn?
Oct 25 22:33:57 <orangey> TokyoDan: good question.
Oct 25 22:34:02 <orangey> TokyoDan: why not just busybox?
Oct 25 22:34:04 <orangey> is that a shell?
Oct 25 22:34:33 <melmoth>  /etc/password says /bin/sh , it belong to busybox
Oct 25 22:35:31 <l7> doesn't the n810 use ash as the shell?
Oct 25 22:35:54 <l7> that's what the n800 uses and the OS should be the same
Oct 25 22:37:16 <AstralStorm> wrong
Oct 25 22:37:30 <AstralStorm> they both use busybox sh of sorts
Oct 25 22:37:36 <AstralStorm> it's not exactly full ash
Oct 25 22:42:23 <TokyoDan> If both root and user use busybox sh then why are the prompts different?
Oct 25 22:43:01 <orangey> different in what sense?
Oct 25 22:43:04 <orangey> # vs $?
Oct 25 22:43:11 <orangey> that's standard distinction between root and non-root
Oct 25 22:43:21 <TokyoDan> Yes. and isn't "sh" bourne? so maybe busybox is a clone.
Oct 25 22:43:34 <orangey> sh can be anything
Oct 25 22:43:41 <TokyoDan> That's all?
Oct 25 22:44:14 <TokyoDan> I thought it was standardized that sh is the brompt for bourne.
Oct 25 22:44:24 <orangey> not at all.
Oct 25 22:44:28 <orangey> sh is probably the least standard.
Oct 25 22:44:36 <orangey> and will generally be hijacked by whatever the default shell is
Oct 25 22:44:40 <orangey> perhaps at some point it was.
Oct 25 22:44:55 <orangey> $ ls -l /bin/sh
Oct 25 22:44:55 <orangey> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2006-09-09 19:28 /bin/sh -> dash
Oct 25 22:44:58 <orangey> and that's on ubuntu!
Oct 25 22:46:17 <TokyoDan> ok, mine is /bin/sh -> busybox on my n810
Oct 25 22:46:23 <TokyoDan> Thanks.
Oct 25 22:46:45 <orangey> np
Oct 25 22:46:47 <TokyoDan> Now I wonder where the environments variables are kept.
Oct 25 22:46:53 <orangey> basically what we we were saying
Oct 25 22:46:58 <orangey> the variables are generally kept in .profile
Oct 25 22:47:07 <orangey> not sure specifically for busybox
Oct 25 22:48:04 <TokyoDan> Well now I know what to search for when looking for  shell script syntax/commands.
Oct 25 22:48:45 <orangey> exactly!
Oct 25 22:48:57 <orangey> there are subtle differences that can get infuriating if you don't realize that busybox =/= bash
Oct 25 22:49:15 <TokyoDan> supposedly the busybox guys hang out at #uclibc
Oct 25 22:50:44 <orangey> no idea
Oct 25 22:50:50 <TokyoDan> Well I've been playing with the $PATH variable in .profile so that I can run an executable Python script from my home directory but no matter what I do I get command not found errors.
Oct 25 22:50:57 <orangey> but I would doubt you need to ask them for much unless you're doing some pretty low-level coding
Oct 25 22:51:21 <TokyoDan> Yeah, the wiki is best.
Oct 25 22:51:44 <orangey> I have to head out, but good luck with it. if you make sure that the environmental variables work, then just google around to see.
Oct 25 22:51:57 <orangey> it may be .profile, .bashrc or something else.
Oct 25 22:52:09 <orangey> good luck!
Oct 25 22:52:23 <TokyoDan> Thanks
Oct 25 22:53:49 <melmoth> Tonnerre: are you sure the python script start with the path to python (#!/usr/bin/python2.5) ?
Oct 25 23:53:16 <TokyoDan> Hello melmoth. just go back from breakfast. Yes. my script starts with that.
Oct 25 23:56:43 <TokyoDan> My script Hello1.py  is in my current directory, I type Hello1.py at the prompt and i get: "-sh: Hello1.py: not fount
Oct 25 23:59:07 <TokyoDan> I got it. It runs if i type ./Hello1.py
Oct 26 00:13:35 <hellwolf> Now I know why avahi-daemon didn't start on my diablo system now, in rc2.d it should be started after some other things, I now put it to S99avahi-daemon, it starts now
Oct 26 00:37:35 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, community suicide? Why? That all sounds a lot like what most people would like to see.
Oct 26 02:03:25 <orangey> hey all.
Oct 26 02:03:31 <orangey> I just installed scratchbox.
Oct 26 02:03:42 <orangey> but I can't seem to do much with the armel version
Oct 26 02:03:45 <orangey> no network, etc.
Oct 26 02:03:51 <orangey> how do I set it up so it looks just like my n810?
Oct 26 02:04:02 <GeneralAntilles> Don't
Oct 26 02:04:13 <GeneralAntilles> The testing environment is pointless and a waste of time.
Oct 26 02:04:17 <GeneralAntilles> Just test on the tablet.
Oct 26 02:06:59 <orangey> GeneralAntilles: well, I am trying to do this for developers sans tablet.
Oct 26 02:07:09 <orangey> for example, I have a bug I'm trying to work on.
Oct 26 02:07:25 <GeneralAntilles> The "emulation" really isn't emulation
Oct 26 02:07:36 <GeneralAntilles> it's about as fake of a tablet environment as you can get
Oct 26 02:07:43 <orangey> bug's here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3824
Oct 26 02:07:48 <GeneralAntilles> You don't set it up like the tablet.
Oct 26 02:07:50 <orangey> The Callcentric people are willing to play.
Oct 26 02:07:57 <GeneralAntilles> There's emulation being worked on
Oct 26 02:08:00 <GeneralAntilles> but it's not ready yet
Oct 26 02:08:06 <orangey> and I want them to have something to call from instead of always asking me to make the calls, etc.
Oct 26 02:08:19 <orangey> GeneralAntilles: is it in any way possible just to get rtcomm on there and working to make test calls?
Oct 26 02:08:25 <orangey> i.e., sound and such?
Oct 26 02:08:30 <GeneralAntilles> It sounds like a NAT issue to me.
Oct 26 02:08:41 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Oct 26 02:08:48 <GeneralAntilles> No, there's no chance of that working.
Oct 26 02:08:54 <orangey> GeneralAntilles: that's unfortunate.
Oct 26 02:09:04 <GeneralAntilles> Eh, it is what it si
Oct 26 02:09:07 <GeneralAntilles> s/si/is/
Oct 26 02:09:07 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Eh, it is what it is
Oct 26 02:09:10 <GeneralAntilles> Pick up a used N800.
Oct 26 02:09:23 <orangey> GeneralAntilles: anyhow: You're saying it's probably a NAT issue?
Oct 26 02:09:32 <GeneralAntilles> Almost always is with SIP weirdness.
Oct 26 02:09:33 <orangey> GeneralAntilles: how do I debug it further? Because my calls work with other services.
Oct 26 02:09:41 <orangey> and, in fact, my calls work with Callcentric with *other numbers*
Oct 26 02:12:19 <orangey> GeneralAntilles: Anyhow, I'm motivated to get this working, since Callcentric is my primary phone number, and the current arrangement is a complete nuissance (I have to use Click2Dial)
Oct 26 02:12:45 <orangey> if you wish to play with it / test it / whatnot, I'll gladly put some money on your callcentric account
Oct 26 02:13:04 <orangey> For that matter, is there such a thing as maemo bounties?
Oct 26 02:13:13 <GeneralAntilles> On Garage
Oct 26 02:13:19 <GeneralAntilles> I've only ever heard of one being paid out.
Oct 26 02:14:17 <orangey> Where would they go?
Oct 26 02:54:59 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=236689
Oct 26 02:55:04 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody else find that as bizarre as me?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 26 02:59:57 2008