**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 26 02:59:57 2008 Oct 26 03:00:17 GeneralAntilles: is he talking about an aftermarket protector? Oct 26 03:00:25 I would guard a bit of the guy's dignity. Oct 26 03:00:33 he has an n810 with a bad screen. Oct 26 03:00:43 so long as you can prove it's otherwise OK, who cares? Oct 26 03:00:50 Presumably the factory shipping protector. Oct 26 03:01:00 what factory shipping protector? Oct 26 03:01:06 The one that Nokia ships them with. Oct 26 03:01:06 you mean we're supposed to keep that on? Oct 26 03:01:11 No Oct 26 03:01:16 It's a shipping protector Oct 26 03:01:29 oooooh. Oct 26 03:01:31 I see what he's saying. Oct 26 03:01:34 yeah, he's lying. Oct 26 03:01:42 it's unlikely stolen. Oct 26 03:01:50 but probably he did something to it Oct 26 03:02:02 Or just stupid Oct 26 03:02:15 In which case, he can save himself some money by sending it to Nokia for repair. Oct 26 03:02:40 The outermost layer of plastic on the screen is kinda loose on teh edges so I wouldn't be surprised if someone mistook it for shipping protector... Oct 26 03:03:12 You can't peel the touch layer off. Oct 26 03:03:17 It's integrated with the LCD. Oct 26 03:06:31 clearly he's lying. Oct 26 03:09:02 GeneralAntilles: there you go. I called him out a bit more. Oct 26 03:09:17 I think it's only fair to warn any possible buyers outright. Oct 26 03:09:59 You get some bizarre sellers on itT. Oct 26 03:10:21 I like the guys who start verbally abusing potential buyers. Oct 26 03:10:34 they can't verbally abuse them : ) Oct 26 03:10:42 but I take the point Oct 26 03:10:54 textually Oct 26 03:11:04 sounds desirable Oct 26 03:11:47 http://shop.eten.hu/mugen-power-3600mah-extended-battery-for-nokia-n810-with-battery-door-blue-p-475.html Oct 26 03:11:49 interesting.. Oct 26 03:12:07 Apparently it works well enough Oct 26 03:12:10 Though it does make it a bit fat. Oct 26 03:12:23 and probably won't fit so well in my case. Oct 26 03:12:37 I would personally prefer to carry two batteries than one whopper. Oct 26 03:13:14 Such a pain to micromanage battery charging Oct 26 03:13:22 But that's why I travel with a 770. Oct 26 03:13:59 I wonder if this really does have an extra 300mAh http://shop.eten.hu/mugen-power-1800mah-extended-battery-for-nokia-n770-7700-7710-9500-e61-e62-n92-n800-p-252.html Oct 26 03:14:46 why? The 770 has a great battery life? Oct 26 03:14:50 I've only ever known the 810 Oct 26 03:14:53 and it's amazing. Oct 26 03:14:59 though I shake my head at the GPS. Oct 26 03:15:01 WTF. Oct 26 03:15:05 Nah, easy battery charger for the extra battery for my N800. ;) Oct 26 03:15:22 The GPS was probably bundled for free from TI with the OMAP2420. Oct 26 03:15:37 It's about the cheapest cellular GPS they make. Oct 26 03:16:49 Now that's a suspicious reply. Oct 26 03:39:46 GeneralAntilles: the photos check out Oct 26 03:40:04 I think the guy just scored the nokia by dropping it or stabbing it or something falling on it. Oct 26 04:19:30 is it a bad idea to move my directories to /dev/mmc2? Oct 26 04:29:53 Well, considering it a. doesn't exist and b. isn't actually a filesystem. . . . Oct 26 04:30:28 /dev/mmcblk0p1 Oct 26 04:30:51 Still isn't a filesystem. ;) Oct 26 04:31:02 That'd be /media/mmc2 Oct 26 04:31:21 .......... Oct 26 04:31:26 ................. Oct 26 04:31:37 blah! Oct 26 04:36:46 * GeneralAntilles really hates anything and everything to do with cellular. Oct 26 04:36:55 What directories? Oct 26 04:37:52 Those self-proclaimed cellular pundits on itT are incredibly tiresome. Oct 26 04:38:06 what does pundits mean? Oct 26 04:38:23 http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=pundits Oct 26 04:38:46 link to examples? :-) Oct 26 04:38:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_commentator#Current_use Oct 26 04:39:00 Your google-fu is weak. . . . Oct 26 04:39:13 I meant on itt Oct 26 04:39:28 Ah, that. Oct 26 04:39:34 Practically anything posted by johnkzin. Oct 26 04:40:13 how much more CPU intensive can you make a forum anyway.. sigh Oct 26 04:40:33 I wish Reggie would fix the minimalist theme and make it the default. Oct 26 04:40:50 People are too fixated on making "mobile" layouts Oct 26 04:40:58 They just need to make regular layouts that don't suck ass. Oct 26 04:41:12 quite Oct 26 04:42:09 I don't even see a "unfuck the site" link anywhere, or anything that looks like it'd do that :P Oct 26 04:42:37 There's a styles dropdown on the bottom left of most pages. Oct 26 04:42:45 The old style is lighter Oct 26 04:42:57 or you can you one of the mobile styles, but they're missing features. Oct 26 04:42:58 oh there Oct 26 05:14:28 Krisse is now seriously pissed off. Oct 26 05:15:01 * RST38h guesses commenters were real hard on him Oct 26 05:15:05 Worse than 6 hours ago? Oct 26 05:15:26 6 hours ago I was asleep so can't compare Oct 26 05:15:35 Defintely more pissed than yesterday though Oct 26 05:15:40 Ah, guess not then. Oct 26 05:16:18 Somewhat weird, but I've never put much stock in his prediction ability Oct 26 05:16:23 Symbian guy Oct 26 05:17:23 Well, he appears to spell doom predictions correctly Oct 26 05:17:33 I am just not buying his cures Oct 26 05:44:08 Anyone here familiar with gpe-calendar? Oct 26 05:44:49 Because, I can't figure out how to view events between 7 pm and 7am. Oct 26 05:45:24 It doesn't scroll, and none of the buttons do anything to help. Oct 26 08:11:01 * Stskeeps yawns Oct 26 08:11:33 ~curse effing time changes Oct 26 08:11:33 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, effing time changes ! Oct 26 08:12:01 * qwerty12 came down at "8:00 AM" to find it was really 7:00 AM Oct 26 08:12:22 Stskeeps, why community suicide? Oct 26 08:13:03 Morning, all Oct 26 08:13:40 GeneralAntilles: well initial thought after sending the mail, but that's probably just to deal with low self esteem :) Oct 26 08:14:13 Stskeeps, I can't image where that'd be coming from. :) Those all sounded like things the community would eat up. ;) Oct 26 08:14:17 Didn't seem too outlandish Oct 26 08:15:36 and it would be a huge boost for maemo really.. i -think- i'm right in my assumption that there's no other real "good" user-oriented platforms than maemo for low cpu/power devices Oct 26 08:16:50 I do think it should go into a wiki page, though. Oct 26 08:17:05 mm Oct 26 08:17:10 Little more detailed and a lot less transient. Oct 26 08:17:57 Something management could be shown. Oct 26 08:18:09 hehe, executive summary Oct 26 08:18:29 we'll see if the nokia people takes the bait first, otherwise it doesn't matter that much to making it structured Oct 26 08:18:59 Quim used the argument that neither Ubuntu nor Debian target armv6 Oct 26 08:19:03 That kinda seems like bull to me Oct 26 08:19:10 I mean, they just gotta recompile, right? Oct 26 08:19:44 yeah Oct 26 08:20:46 Well, problem is, the people empowered to make major decisions like that generally don't frequent the lists. Oct 26 08:21:05 and giving Quim something concrete to point to will help. Oct 26 08:21:21 I'd like to hear what Eero and Igor think, though. Oct 26 08:21:50 yeah, they seem to be closer to the core, - i'd like to see some community comments as well so it's just not a dream by a few people Oct 26 08:22:21 Well, practically speaking, what does it mean for most people? Oct 26 08:22:29 More software, easier development? Oct 26 08:22:37 I can't imagine anybody being against that. ;) Oct 26 08:23:25 Jaffa, do you want to blog a bit about this, or are you gonna make me do it? :P Oct 26 08:25:39 :) Oct 26 08:29:33 * Jaffa boggling at people who think Maemo - and Nokia - have anything much to contribute to a low-end market in which everyone else is attempting to compete. Oct 26 08:30:14 Everybody's got a netbook Oct 26 08:30:18 practically nobody has a tablet Oct 26 08:30:36 i've met people who would actually prefer a tablet to a netbook Oct 26 08:30:52 * GeneralAntilles raises his hand. Oct 26 08:31:10 for sake of touch screens and being able to write notes / formulas etc that way for studies Oct 26 08:31:14 By "everybody" I mean "every manufacturer" Oct 26 08:33:02 even if it's microsoft, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-IRspSs-qw , they have the right idea Oct 26 08:33:05 (look for tablets in there too) Oct 26 08:34:46 and honestly, netbooks is just a continuation of the "PC" model, whereas a paradigm shift is needed Oct 26 08:34:49 away from the traditional desktop Oct 26 08:35:10 It's interesting that krisse would say the tablet market is dead when most everybody else says the market's going to explode in a couple years. Oct 26 08:36:39 devices are getting smaller and the tendancies are already there Oct 26 08:38:51 and huge research money is put into ubiquitous computing :P Oct 26 08:38:55 (or whatever people name it) Oct 26 08:41:13 indeed; much more interesting form factor Oct 26 08:51:36 GeneralAntilles: http://www.ubiq.com/hypertext/weiser/SciAmDraft3.html <- the traditional ubiqutious computing paper, for inspiration :P Oct 26 09:12:24 hrmf, why am i getting the feeling that canola is doing to the tablets what arcohs are doing to the pmp, but in reverse? or maybe i should say full circle, as i sometimes feel as if canola is a os running on top of a os... Oct 26 09:15:22 ugh, now im thinking that if nokia took canola, put microb and a calendar inside it and presented it as fremantle, a lot of the community would hail it as a gift from god... Oct 26 09:16:24 is canola free software yet ? Oct 26 09:16:51 melmoth, technically, yes. Oct 26 09:17:02 Source isn't out yet, though. Oct 26 09:17:04 Should be in a couple months. Oct 26 09:17:10 good news. Oct 26 09:17:20 t_s_o, hehe, I've had thoughts like that myself. Oct 26 09:17:32 Though, replace "OS" with "desktop environment". Oct 26 09:17:51 well the DE is the os more often then not these days... Oct 26 09:18:14 Not by definition, but I get your point. ;) Oct 26 09:19:40 bah, i really wish that microb had a way to hand of task to third party apps, like say doing youtube or other flash videos outside of the browser window with mplayer... Oct 26 09:20:00 It does Oct 26 09:20:05 Make a plugin Oct 26 09:20:16 Nobody's stepped up to put something nice together yet, though. :( Oct 26 09:20:24 hmm... Oct 26 09:20:30 where is the docs for that? Oct 26 09:21:15 Shouldn't be radically different from regular Mozilla plugins. Oct 26 09:21:16 t_s_o: Code for some plugins: http://openbossa.indt.org/canola/developer.html Oct 26 09:21:26 t_s_o: my bad Oct 26 09:21:36 * qwerty12 thought you were talking about canola plugins Oct 26 09:21:45 ... Oct 26 09:22:30 * GeneralAntilles pokes qwerty12 with a stick. Oct 26 09:22:39 t_s_o: The mplayer plugin is a nice place to start from then: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17715 Oct 26 09:22:42 GeneralAntilles: heh Oct 26 09:22:56 heh, i just found that one Oct 26 09:25:02 another option would be for some simple way to copy a media url onto the clipboard for the user to paste anywhere one would like Oct 26 09:26:08 For me, what could work is using something like pipeline's dbus-switchboard to send the youtube mime type to mplayer and using a greasemonkey script to put the link to the flv directly on the youtube page Oct 26 09:26:27 Yeah, that sounds like a logical plan. Oct 26 09:38:27 RST38h, ping. Oct 26 09:39:55 qwerty12: thanks for reminding me of greasemonkey Oct 26 09:40:04 i keep forgetting about its potential utility Oct 26 09:40:26 heh, I need to reinstall it. *fingers crossed* it works in diablo Oct 26 09:43:10 pong. Oct 26 09:43:33 RST38h, new VGB has the framebuffer changes? Oct 26 09:45:08 yep Oct 26 09:45:11 * Jaffa spots krisse's thread on ITT where Internet Tablet School is being closed down because a) there's no future in the tablets; b) lots (i.e. 8) thumbs on maemo.org for that post. Oct 26 09:46:03 You might consider using Maemo-Update-Description and checking to see if a menu location has already been selected wheb updating. Oct 26 09:46:17 you all managed to piss Krisse off, you evil clowns! Oct 26 09:46:24 8) Oct 26 09:46:26 I can coerce qwerty12 into providing a patch if you want. :D Oct 26 09:46:39 * Jaffa can live with himself for pissing *anyone* off ;-) Oct 26 09:46:40 GAN: Zap told me how to do it once but I forgot =( Oct 26 09:46:51 I do it all day at work Oct 26 09:46:54 it is basically an extra line in postinst, if I remember correctly Oct 26 09:46:57 * GAN800 pokes qwerty12 Oct 26 09:47:33 probably something that needs to go in my packaging tips wiki page. Oct 26 09:47:35 Jaffa: IT helpdesk? =) Oct 26 09:47:44 Jaffa: I'm more inclined to think it's because he can't think of anything more to provide articles on. I mean, come on, his view of the "future of maemo" isn't a tutorial. Oct 26 09:47:49 RST38h: Wait a sec Oct 26 09:48:10 GAN800: Eh? There's now a header, Maemo-Update-Description to give a small changelog for a new package? I remember the discussion about it on -developers (I think I even suggested a package header), but don't remember *any* communication about the feature actually being implemented Oct 26 09:48:19 GAN: Just use VGB postinst as a sample - it includes all the possible things one would want to do during installation Oct 26 09:48:28 From updating caches to cleaning gconf Oct 26 09:48:28 RST38h: Senior Architect. I get to tell code monkeys who are a grade above me that their idea's crap ;-) Oct 26 09:48:39 qwerty12: true Oct 26 09:48:41 Jaffa, it's on the h-a-m garage page. Oct 26 09:49:08 GAN800: That doesn't count as communication. Developers don't watch that looking for new features to make people's lives easier. Oct 26 09:49:16 Jaffa: As long as it works... Oct 26 09:49:35 Jaffa, oh, sorry, I was just going for the technical details. ;D Oct 26 09:49:38 RST38h: ah, no - that's not the only criteria in this case (though I accept sometimes that is) Oct 26 09:49:58 GAN800: No, I meant the "good news, package maintainers: you can now help your users know what the upgrade is going to do for them with ..." Oct 26 09:50:35 Jaffa, yeah, I got you. Oct 26 09:51:54 hmm, i suspect that greasemonkey do not work in diablo... Oct 26 09:52:28 or maybe i spoke to soon... Oct 26 09:53:19 RST38h: Use this: http://slexy.org/view/s21xhtRXIN . Though, solmumaha tells me this way isn't entirely the best as $2 can mean more than just an upgrade Oct 26 09:53:37 aha Oct 26 09:53:57 RST38h: Though, why do you insist on removing vgb settings on each upgrade :) Oct 26 09:54:29 thanks =) Oct 26 09:57:03 qwerty: If some bit layouts change, those setting will become a problem for you Oct 26 09:57:23 Ah, ok Oct 26 09:57:50 I was wondering why my last used rom didn't show up when I upgraded vgb :) Oct 26 10:00:06 Time to see if gimp from svn can open a "raw rgb (24 bits)" :) Oct 26 10:00:18 Epic fuckup in the making: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/26/kofax_doc_capture_looking_good/ Oct 26 10:00:41 what are "framebuffer changes"? Oct 26 10:03:45 zap: I went from GdkImage to using fb blitting/scaling directly when in full screen mode Oct 26 10:07:01 morning all Oct 26 10:08:18 * RST38h continues getting spam in Polish. What did I do? Oct 26 10:08:39 Whose mailbox have I been to? Oct 26 10:11:48 that should be alot faster Oct 26 10:12:20 have you measured any numbers? Oct 26 10:15:40 RST38h: oh shit Oct 26 10:15:46 something with brides.pl? Oct 26 10:16:20 i can recommend polish gfs :P Oct 26 10:16:41 ghehe Oct 26 10:16:54 * aquatix has a dutch one Oct 26 10:16:59 also very nice ;) Oct 26 10:23:50 zap, anecdotally speaking, crazy fast. ;) Oct 26 10:24:51 * Jaffa should do some chores before hacking on the App Mgr source Oct 26 10:27:14 Should be pretty straightforward to get it to remember category position, no? Oct 26 10:28:09 Sts: I do not think they will be any better thanlocal offerings Oct 26 10:28:27 zap: Well, there is a frame rate limiter and it reaches the limit now Oct 26 10:28:47 zap: even in VGBA Oct 26 10:28:48 Jaffa: Willing to finish off the toggable show legal warnings patch? Oct 26 10:29:27 all right, off for a stroll in the park Oct 26 10:32:57 cool Oct 26 10:33:16 last time I tried vgba it was slow Oct 26 10:33:36 umm, is it in repo now? Oct 26 10:33:38 qwerty12, how about an osv-c to go with it? ;) Oct 26 10:33:45 zap, yes. Oct 26 10:33:57 * zap updates updates updates Oct 26 10:34:10 RST38h: by the way, what audio subsystem are you using? SDL? Oct 26 10:34:11 Could be devel, though. Oct 26 10:34:36 GAN800: I'm having trouble with the patch, I shudder at thinking about attempting osv-c Oct 26 10:35:43 It's just playing with dependencies, though. Oct 26 10:36:05 * GAN800 wonders where jott's hiding. :( Oct 26 10:36:32 bah, i need a book on javascript, at least, to make sense of anything... Oct 26 10:47:10 Grr, it would be nice if I could get http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/initfslogo.png to actually be in blue... Oct 26 10:48:56 Got enough color bits? Oct 26 10:49:48 Ah, my bad, looks like I should read the help properly. Imagemagick can only display that file in monochrome :/ Oct 26 10:56:47 :P Oct 26 10:59:04 two features i would love to see in microb: 1. when images are turned of, a placeholder is put in to allow ease of finding specific image for manual download, 2. when flash is turned of, a placeholder is available for copying of source url...' Oct 26 10:59:23 neither will probably show up as they would violate html specs... Oct 26 11:01:03 at least thats the answer i got when i attempted to file 1 as a bug, and got it tagged as wontfix... Oct 26 11:02:40 * lcuk shivers Oct 26 11:03:07 hi lcuk Oct 26 11:03:17 hiya qwerty12 Oct 26 11:03:18 morning lcuk Oct 26 11:03:43 hows the good ship #maemo this morning? Oct 26 11:03:47 o/ sts Oct 26 11:05:13 * lcuk is at a very difficult crossroads Oct 26 11:05:21 t_s_o, wait for Fremantle and you can patch it. Oct 26 11:05:42 lcuk, take the fork in the road. Oct 26 11:06:06 lcuk: wife went "tablet or me"? :P Oct 26 11:06:23 well one direction involves installing linux on desktop and building something in C for linux desktop, the other involves sticking with windows and writing something in VB Oct 26 11:06:39 GAN800: right now, fremantle holds little appeal to me. until we get confirmed that it will be available on the existing tablets, im going for a pandora :( Oct 26 11:06:43 Linux, baby! Oct 26 11:07:07 t_s_o, the Pandora practically is an N900. . . . Oct 26 11:07:10 * lcuk wants a nokia - they HAVE to get us a decent camera on this next model Oct 26 11:07:23 * Stskeeps really dislikes the fact we have no actual idea about what fremantle really looks like except for various hints Oct 26 11:07:45 Stskeeps, problem is, Nokia doesn't know either. Oct 26 11:07:58 * lcuk has a feeling that nokia doesnt know what fremantle looks like yet either apart for various hints Oct 26 11:08:06 Remember, the mockups at the Summit weren't anywhere near finalized. Oct 26 11:08:18 that's true Oct 26 11:08:26 i meant more like system arch though Oct 26 11:08:34 i would rather have a decent gps than a decent cam Oct 26 11:08:46 Hmm, looks like maemo may be supporting vala? Oct 26 11:09:02 Stskeeps, December. Oct 26 11:09:05 i think your mailing last night was pretty clean sts - but i still think a pretty front end ontop is desirable Oct 26 11:09:17 qwerty12, its on its way Oct 26 11:09:19 * lcuk likes vala Oct 26 11:09:24 GAN800: the packages list of fremantle sdk seemed horridly boring though Oct 26 11:09:39 lcuk: ah, cool :). I hear vala is nice except for the compile time :p Oct 26 11:09:51 yeah - get that licked and we are rocking Oct 26 11:09:55 optionally, nokia open sources everything they can (no closed source "differenciators") of diablo, and hands it all over to the community... Oct 26 11:10:08 probably not going to happen Oct 26 11:10:13 * lcuk might consider ondemand compilation or *shock* a scripting language Oct 26 11:10:33 t_s_o, why not simply use the existing OSS variants out there Oct 26 11:10:44 t_s_o, there's zero incentive Oct 26 11:10:46 lcuk: pretty frontend of the system or the pretty front end as in a wiki outlining it more structured? Oct 26 11:10:51 theres no real need to open source what they have its just a case of finding the already open rplacements Oct 26 11:10:56 Nokia doesn't open source dead codebases. Oct 26 11:11:07 Stskeeps, front end ui Oct 26 11:11:20 GAN800, agreed - it would be the wrong thing to do Oct 26 11:11:23 lcuk: think putting the line at hildon is sane Oct 26 11:11:26 then there's room for play Oct 26 11:11:27 better to find in progress open things Oct 26 11:11:36 so, how about a open replacement for microb? Oct 26 11:11:44 t_s_o: tear, midori.. Oct 26 11:11:50 t_s_o, theres plenty being tried - one will emerge as the winner Oct 26 11:11:52 t_s_o, MicroB is open . . . Oct 26 11:12:08 You mean tablet-browser-ui Oct 26 11:12:20 semantics... Oct 26 11:12:34 Important, though Oct 26 11:12:46 i'm still freezing Oct 26 11:13:05 http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=233329&postcount=1 <- could easily replace tablet-browser-ui :P Oct 26 11:13:09 moving my fingers to type isnt helping much, i need to do more Oct 26 11:13:11 * GAN800 is comfortable Oct 26 11:13:50 * Stskeeps has a very bad cold and would very much like to have a clear mind. Oct 26 11:14:14 :( headfunk Oct 26 11:14:19 * qwerty12 is fine and this is with the heater off... Oct 26 11:14:26 Hollows out Stskeeps' head Oct 26 11:14:36 apt-get autoremove gunk Oct 26 11:14:38 ones nokia starts referring to the tablet browser as tablet-browser-ui, i will... Oct 26 11:14:40 * GAN800 's window is open. Oct 26 11:14:50 heh root canal on sts's brainstem Oct 26 11:14:57 t_s_o, they don't refer to it as MicroB Oct 26 11:15:16 MicroB is just the engine. Oct 26 11:15:34 The community uses it for the whole thing. Oct 26 11:15:38 ok, point from all this: we need a decent browser and the current one looks long in the tooth and doesnt make our nokias shine Oct 26 11:15:46 well, everywhere i read about it, the browser is called microb, so somewhere the message must have gotten garbeled... Oct 26 11:16:15 Who wants to discuss 'Mozilla based browser for Maemo' Oct 26 11:16:40 * lcuk thinks big fat bloated desktop code is overbloat Oct 26 11:16:54 Anyway, if you're talking source, it's either MicroB (the open engine) or tablet-browser-ui (the closed ui) Oct 26 11:16:56 * lcuk seeks nimble code Oct 26 11:17:08 a engine without a ui is virtually useless :( Oct 26 11:17:10 It's old Oct 26 11:17:38 You get the engine up to speed with trunk and it'll be much faster Oct 26 11:17:49 * lcuk keeps pondering html engine in liqbase Oct 26 11:18:04 lcuk: webkit? :P Oct 26 11:18:08 t_s_o, the difference is still important when discussing code licensing. Oct 26 11:18:09 lcuk: now that may make it useful ;) Oct 26 11:18:22 t_s_o, theres plenty fo things which can be useful Oct 26 11:18:31 i just dont have the time :) Oct 26 11:18:49 anyway, ive got this massive decision to make Oct 26 11:18:49 lcuk: i wouldn't mind a bloody fast renderer even if the amount of colours are lower Oct 26 11:18:52 :P Oct 26 11:18:57 how many use windows desktop vs linux desktop Oct 26 11:19:20 Stskeeps, number of colors are the same (infact higher than 16bit rgb) its just theres a few less pixels Oct 26 11:19:30 Linux == more suffering in the short term and less in the long. Oct 26 11:19:47 but the time to get me running smoothly is great Oct 26 11:19:50 But, really, where do you think you are, lcuk. :P Oct 26 11:20:03 i REALLY want to just jump to a linux touchscreen desktop Oct 26 11:20:23 without messing, preinstalled from scratch all nicely done and works with touch :) Oct 26 11:20:30 asus eee desktop here i come :) Oct 26 11:20:44 THAT will be when i jump from windows Oct 26 11:20:51 lcuk: i use a windows xp desktop, linux tablet, freebsd servers, solaris servers, -- all the right tools for the job Oct 26 11:21:03 yeah sts Oct 26 11:21:04 Touch makes zero sense to me on the desktop. Oct 26 11:21:16 touch makes all the sense for me to expand my ideas Oct 26 11:21:42 right now i want to make the big daddy application liqmaster :) Oct 26 11:22:10 my tablet can pair and sync with it and the extra space allows management thats just impractical on a 4" screen Oct 26 11:22:45 the alternative is just sod it and create user accounts on liqbase.net and have everything uploaded there Oct 26 11:23:13 decisions, decisions Oct 26 11:23:29 http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/10/25/compact-esque-lg-reveal-and-shimmer-kit-primping-for-bell-launch/ <- electronics as fashion statements? Oct 26 11:24:09 yes absolutely Oct 26 11:24:20 What do you think an iPhone is? Oct 26 11:24:23 i like the pletrum-esq stylus i saw on some nokia video Oct 26 11:24:34 plectrum Oct 26 11:25:23 got a point there GAN800 Oct 26 11:26:08 i guess the same can be said for the people with macbooks on the table at a starbucks style places... Oct 26 11:30:15 in the same way many of us know nokia people, does anyone have any contacts in or near asus? Oct 26 11:30:48 hehe Oct 26 11:30:55 is that a phone, or jewelry? Oct 26 11:31:24 a little bit of both, probably... Oct 26 11:31:24 does it matter? Oct 26 11:31:34 although the small form factor is nice, I'd drop the extras and release another version Oct 26 11:31:37 cheaper this time Oct 26 11:32:32 * lcuk didnt know AstralStorm ran a mobile phone company Oct 26 11:32:41 no no Oct 26 11:32:48 I'd sell both Oct 26 11:32:59 the premium phone will sell too :> Oct 26 11:33:35 "drop extras"? "cheaper"? Are we thinking about the same Apple? Oct 26 11:33:48 uhm, about LG, not Apple Oct 26 11:34:00 apple will never do this, because it's their brand to be posh and expensive Oct 26 11:34:04 ah, that makes more sense then :) Oct 26 11:34:17 LG can do cheap impressively Oct 26 11:35:45 LG and samsung comes up with some interesting designs, to bad most of them seem to end up with US operators on exclusive contracts... Oct 26 11:36:12 or Korean operators :) Oct 26 11:36:16 well, because they expect to get more money that way Oct 26 11:36:24 but either way, it's CDMA I suppose Oct 26 11:36:24 true that johnx Oct 26 11:36:38 at&t is umts Oct 26 11:37:05 nice, a panucci package on the repos :D Oct 26 11:37:41 I'm impressed by how little AT&T has in their lineup right now. Oct 26 11:38:00 mmmh, Kodak sensor in N97... gimme Oct 26 11:38:06 or in N900 ;> Oct 26 11:38:35 I just hope it has decent optics... Oct 26 11:39:04 Hopefully not too decent. :P Oct 26 11:39:07 I don't want it to be huge. Oct 26 11:39:09 i kinda liked the idea i spotted on a recent samsung flip, the camera was inside the hinge so that it would point down while closed. and they made the the outer screen the same as the inner one, so one could use it as a viewfinder ;) Oct 26 11:39:48 more moving parts to break... Oct 26 11:39:57 heh, maybe so ;) Oct 26 11:40:00 GeneralAntilles: optics are small Oct 26 11:40:04 and there's enough space Oct 26 11:40:17 see those Carl Zeiss they had already Oct 26 11:40:35 that + excellent sensor = win Oct 26 11:40:41 Yes, the N93 was huuuuge Oct 26 11:40:41 hmm, does the browser have some kind of pr filetype download memory? it seems to suggest the right place for debs, but a different for new kinds of files... Oct 26 11:40:51 GeneralAntilles: n810 isn't? :> Oct 26 11:40:57 +software to go with it == double plus mega super win Oct 26 11:41:09 AstralStorm, it's not getting any smaller if you add big optics. Oct 26 11:41:37 * johnx imagines something DSLR sized and shaped, integrating a 4" touchscreen with a speaker and mic along the bottom edge with dials and buttons everywhere and a camcorder battery hanging off one side :) Oct 26 11:41:54 gan, you dont need perfect optics, theres plenty of "good enough" stuff in camera phones now that dont compromise size for quality too much Oct 26 11:42:05 GeneralAntilles: not that it should get a lot smaller Oct 26 11:42:13 maybe a cm here Oct 26 11:42:18 lcuk, johnx brought it up. Oct 26 11:42:31 but there's still enough space to fill in inside Oct 26 11:43:09 can't be made much thinner obviously Oct 26 11:43:20 If the next tablet doesn't support standard DSLR lenses I don't see the point :D Oct 26 11:43:32 wtf? Oct 26 11:43:38 johnx, as long as it's an EF mount. . . Oct 26 11:43:38 no, it will outcompete cell phones there Oct 26 11:43:49 I'm keeding :P Oct 26 11:43:51 inside camera phones, do the camera modules use custom interfaces, or are they basically serial and can be modified to work with usb? Oct 26 11:44:49 OMAP has a camera interface Oct 26 11:44:58 this extensions 32gb case thing craves1 is making would make an ideal place to put a camera module for 810 if one can be found with sufficient drivers Oct 26 11:45:02 You'll have to look at the docs for more. Oct 26 11:45:05 yes gan, but im thinking NOW Oct 26 11:45:09 twp camera interfaces, IIRC Oct 26 11:46:14 why two? Oct 26 11:46:21 camera phone operators dont reinvent the wheel when adding cameras do they (they cant?) i wonder just how simple it would be to get one working Oct 26 11:47:04 RST38h, one front, one back. Oct 26 11:47:05 RST38h, for pictures and video conferencing I'd think Oct 26 11:47:09 lcuk: probably as simple as reading i2c device Oct 26 11:47:18 gan: ah! Oct 26 11:47:47 <-- stupid, didnt think of that Oct 26 11:48:10 I want stereovision Oct 26 11:48:35 Hrm Oct 26 11:48:38 http://liqbase.net/double_tiny.JPG << stereo cameras Oct 26 11:48:40 just addsync Oct 26 11:48:53 I need to build a camera mount now. . . . Oct 26 11:49:17 not for two tablets I hope... Oct 26 11:49:26 Wonder's if there's good software to build 3d images. Oct 26 11:49:53 yes, criminologists use it Oct 26 11:49:59 and theres more coming out everyday Oct 26 11:50:06 Just go cross-eyed to form the composite. Oct 26 11:50:14 darpa robot stuff is making extensive use of it all Oct 26 11:50:28 Got a friend who also has an XTi Oct 26 11:50:40 Holiday project . . . Oct 26 11:51:04 * Jaffa wonders if it's worth checking out the 2.2.x branch of Hildon App Mgr. Oct 26 11:51:09 Bah, I'll see if it compiles on diablo Oct 26 11:51:35 Jaffa, let us know if it goes all clutter on yah. ;) Oct 26 11:51:58 :) Oct 26 11:52:12 just take an image processing class Oct 26 11:52:28 press show all and 1,000 3D "packages" fall from the top of the screen with realistic physics? Oct 26 11:52:30 and at the end of the semester you will write your own Oct 26 11:52:51 RST38h, too much damn work Oct 26 11:53:07 not really =) Oct 26 11:53:11 johnx, think more zooming in and entering a cloud of apps Oct 26 11:53:27 large apps == best rated Oct 26 11:53:31 then having to poke at them as they fly past? Oct 26 11:53:41 you are not processing results from 40 cameras to create a volumetric octree are you? Oct 26 11:53:41 I just want to attach two cameras to a 2x4 and the the 2x4 to a tripod. ;) Oct 26 11:54:02 installing packages should require strategy, fast reflexes and patience. It was hard to write, it should be hard to install...one way or the other. Oct 26 11:54:08 make sure you get a Johnny #5 head to wrap them in Oct 26 11:54:18 heh johnx Oct 26 11:54:25 johnx: well said! Oct 26 11:54:26 app uninstallation via doom interface Oct 26 11:54:43 (yes i know pskill doom, but this is more final Oct 26 11:54:53 Ahahaha, johnx Oct 26 11:55:08 installing a package should require typing it in using binary code, with you FullScreen button Oct 26 11:55:20 you have to get through several levels just to get to install canola (boss fight) Oct 26 11:55:31 from water-damaged scraps of printouts Oct 26 11:55:46 lcuk, after defeating all the "dependencies"? Oct 26 11:55:52 transmitted via fax after photographing on a wooden table Oct 26 11:55:57 heh johnx Oct 26 11:56:10 try not to die or you need to insert more credits (lines of code) Oct 26 11:56:11 johnx: after defeating the Python boss Oct 26 11:56:38 as you develop your skills further more of your GPS map opens up and shows you stuff Oct 26 11:56:39 think you're all finished? dist-upgrade sudden death! Oct 26 11:56:41 I can only imagine customer satisfaction will go way up Oct 26 11:56:44 johnx: and picking canola out of its anal orifice ( do snakes have those?) Oct 26 11:56:49 when you unwrap your nokia all you can see if your basement Oct 26 11:57:07 Rewards are just so much more rewarding when you have to work for them. Oct 26 11:57:22 Bah: attempting to compile the hildon-app-mgr trunk: http://pastebin.com/m73692c4b - seems an odd symbol to be missing (a glib one) Oct 26 11:57:32 lcuk: that is already better than the current version which does not work in basements Oct 26 11:57:57 "you are in a dark basement. you are likely to be eaten by a grue" Oct 26 11:58:31 RST38h, AGPS is THAT good Oct 26 11:58:39 "In dist-upgrade sudden death, one false move leaves your tablet unbootable! You'll have to "reflash" back to the beginning of the game if you lose." Oct 26 11:58:45 as good as grue? Oct 26 11:59:09 and after 5 reflashes it dies for good Oct 26 11:59:16 can YOU master the console in time to beat the upgrade?" Oct 26 11:59:34 all right, on with the stroll Oct 26 11:59:56 bonus levels involve opening vi up and having to navigate its maze Oct 26 12:00:19 Sounds easy Oct 26 12:00:27 * lcuk still hasnt decided on VB server or linux server Oct 26 12:00:56 lcuk: linux or I shoot you Oct 26 12:00:57 VB == visual basic? Oct 26 12:01:02 yes Oct 26 12:01:04 %-O Oct 26 12:01:23 GAN800, vi should be puzzle mode: accomplishing "editing tasks" with a minimum of keystrokes :) Oct 26 12:01:26 Right, one things I've found out: Hildon App Mgr uses fremantle's glib which'll be >= 2.16. Diablo has 2.12. g_strcmp0 was introduced in 2.16. Oct 26 12:01:30 'server' and 'basic' are incompatible words Oct 26 12:02:09 zap :) i can do anything in vb that you could do in any other language, i write code using my "C" cap and make it quick Oct 26 12:02:46 solmumaha: newer version of glib in fremantle :-) Oct 26 12:02:50 its kinda object oriented (at least has classes) and lets me draw stuff quickly, linux is like the stone ages :) Oct 26 12:03:08 lcuk: I can do in asm anything you can imagine... however I don't use asm most of the time... Oct 26 12:03:36 for prototyping python is good Oct 26 12:03:37 s/solmumaha/so/ Oct 26 12:03:37 Jaffa meant: so: newer version of glib in fremantle :-) Oct 26 12:03:43 zap - i can use asm in vb as well (and have done in the past) Oct 26 12:04:14 zap - agreed re: python - i want a ui designer thats integrated with a great editor Oct 26 12:05:34 * lcuk keeps thinking of the little bits liqbase would require to output full ui code to link with liqbase Oct 26 12:05:53 lcuk, making your own OS? Oct 26 12:05:53 draw a ui (or photograph one) highlight the input areas Oct 26 12:05:57 and let the user go at it Oct 26 12:06:12 no johnx, but i want to speed up development time Oct 26 12:06:27 fair enough. Just reminds me of emacs somehow Oct 26 12:06:31 i keep drawing UI screens for nokia Oct 26 12:06:44 lcuk: glade + python works fine Oct 26 12:06:51 im just lazy and crap out when it comes to actually coding them Oct 26 12:06:58 glade works on the desktop Oct 26 12:07:02 but not well on the tablet Oct 26 12:07:12 it should be as smooth and simple as liqbase currently is, but project based Oct 26 12:07:13 well, vb doesnt work on tablet as well :) Oct 26 12:07:18 with editing and stuff Oct 26 12:07:35 the language is not important, ill put bindings to python or something as required later Oct 26 12:07:42 or just link to ecmascript or something Oct 26 12:08:13 i just want something for very quick prototyping so i can see if ideas work Oct 26 12:08:27 i have about 50 little microapps waiting in line here Oct 26 12:08:40 which need to have their widgets burnt in code Oct 26 12:08:56 * lcuk has a lot of things to try and do :) Oct 26 12:09:09 Jaffa: Did a dodgy backport of the application manager in trunk and I can only install pidgin-data & pidgin-dbg :P Oct 26 12:10:00 zap, we need a decent editor before the language is chosen ;) Oct 26 12:10:11 i want to edit on the go as easily as i edit here Oct 26 12:10:42 yup, it's emacs :) Oct 26 12:10:48 heh Oct 26 12:10:55 johnx: saw my post on maemo-developers? Oct 26 12:11:25 johnx, would you call the iphone emacs? just because it has lots of little modules for doing different things? Oct 26 12:11:31 Stskeeps, yeah, a little bit stream of consciousness, but I definitely agree Oct 26 12:11:57 lcuk, no, but you're starting with an editor, on your way to create a user environment you never need to leave :) Oct 26 12:12:13 Ehehe Oct 26 12:12:18 :) and Oct 26 12:12:31 i like things to work nicely and smoothly Oct 26 12:12:40 * GAN800 almost wants to qdb that one. Oct 26 12:12:40 * lcuk has expectations about applications Oct 26 12:12:40 no problem of course. It's just that you are starting an OS Oct 26 12:12:54 johnx: liqemacs Oct 26 12:12:56 not in the classic sense, but in the functional sense of the word Oct 26 12:13:04 Ahaha Oct 26 12:13:13 johnx, its not starting, ive simply started to move the stuff ive been coding for years on home machine Oct 26 12:13:30 jott keeps teasing me with "liqos" Oct 26 12:13:37 i kinda like the idea tbh Oct 26 12:13:56 oh, seems totally reasonable to me Oct 26 12:13:58 lcuk's gonna be shipping tablets in 5 years Oct 26 12:14:05 you need a scripting language though, maybe python? Oct 26 12:14:09 johnx: and stream of consciousness is what happens when i write when i'm running a fever :P Oct 26 12:14:13 johnx: lisp.. ;> Oct 26 12:14:22 GAN800, tablets are just one part of my main scheme Oct 26 12:14:25 liqsp Oct 26 12:14:47 scheme/lisp or python seems reasonable Oct 26 12:14:55 the tablet will never be the perfect envionment to manage things fully Oct 26 12:15:20 but its right to take with you - but when i sit down at a big desk it should open up into it Oct 26 12:15:32 lcuk's gonna be the next Steve Jobs. Oct 26 12:15:47 no, im not following anyone :) Oct 26 12:15:52 * lcuk is making his own path Oct 26 12:16:03 liqLife Oct 26 12:16:16 lcuk, make it sync to a remote server, not the desktop (or at least sync via IP) Oct 26 12:17:03 Stskeeps, it's good that you wrote that. Because of the amount of effort you've put in when you say something like "this was a pain" it has a lot of weight to it. And, I hope you get better from the fever! Oct 26 12:17:19 johnx, this is the crossroads im at - i could simply put the server code directly into liqbase and allow any instance to become a master - but that requires me to have a linuxdesktop, but that needs to be touchscreen - aka eee) or i can use the server code ive already got in windows and in visual basic Oct 26 12:17:53 lcuk, is there a reason the server needs to have a UI? Oct 26 12:17:56 liqos won't run without a touchscreen? Oct 26 12:18:14 yes, but to allow my creative juices to flow i need a touchscreen desktop Oct 26 12:18:24 no johnx, but i like the idea of it Oct 26 12:18:36 the third alternative is to actually get some metal at liqbase.net and host it there headless (well with a web interface) Oct 26 12:18:53 why not be client/server? Oct 26 12:18:55 but i dont like the web as much as touching stuff Oct 26 12:19:02 p2p is actually better Oct 26 12:19:16 just some peers are better than others :) Oct 26 12:19:27 ie my desktop peer has a larger interface Oct 26 12:19:31 and more storage Oct 26 12:19:59 i wouldnt expect to keep or display the complete rivers from lots of friends on my tablet Oct 26 12:20:12 gahhh! i need an eee touchscreen Oct 26 12:20:41 if anyone knows anyone at asus please ask them to send me a demo model ;) Oct 26 12:20:59 is a touchsreen eee confirmed? Oct 26 12:21:03 yes Oct 26 12:21:06 desktop model Oct 26 12:21:15 huh Oct 26 12:21:19 strange choice Oct 26 12:21:25 http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/230295/asus-launches-touchscreen-eee-desktop.html Oct 26 12:21:45 nice choice cos it would just replace my monitor here and its touch based and preinstalled with linux and ready to go with no messing Oct 26 12:21:57 all the boxes ticked Oct 26 12:22:22 * lcuk wants to pair the tablet and the desktop together Oct 26 12:22:27 and have everything work nicely Oct 26 12:22:46 a tablet PC running linux and a little easel-type stand for it sounds better to me, but the "linux pre-installed and working" requirement is tough to meet Oct 26 12:23:07 thats where the eee comes in Oct 26 12:23:16 its PERFECT for me, i really hate messing installing shit Oct 26 12:23:22 it wastes so much time Oct 26 12:23:32 and takes my mind away from important stuff Oct 26 12:24:00 ah, the divergent paths of programmers and sys admins :) Oct 26 12:24:05 yes Oct 26 12:24:44 drivers and mechanics :) Oct 26 12:24:53 both as important as the other Oct 26 12:24:59 mechanics and engineers Oct 26 12:25:07 ^ Oct 26 12:26:21 anyway, if anyone happens upon an asus person could you ask.. :D Oct 26 12:26:50 tf, I just read asus as anus >.< Oct 26 12:27:07 sure. and if those things show up around me first I'll figure out a way to get one posted to you :) Oct 26 12:27:09 heh Oct 26 12:27:23 :) johnx Oct 26 12:27:44 probably not though Oct 26 12:27:57 I mean they probably won't show up here first Oct 26 12:28:30 im gonna go see if i can setup a basic server anyway Oct 26 12:28:54 * lcuk tosses a coin, heads its vb, tails linux Oct 26 12:29:13 :) liqbase is havin a server component Oct 26 12:29:37 so they'll just "sync" by throwing some files across? Oct 26 12:30:17 yer, the user creates a stream of data files (stamped with user and time and type) currently on their machine Oct 26 12:30:39 if i want to sync from yours i just grab all your files - they shouldnt conflict Oct 26 12:30:57 so I can just sync it to my public webspace and pull it down on my desktop? Oct 26 12:31:06 yes Oct 26 12:31:12 thats the kind of thinking Oct 26 12:31:36 hot sauce. That's the GUI-less "server" I wanted Oct 26 12:31:49 yeah Oct 26 12:31:54 and the desktop and tablet are both clients Oct 26 12:32:11 or one can be the master Oct 26 12:32:22 sounds fair. so we are just disagreeing on semantics, not content :) Oct 26 12:32:25 itunes-ipod Oct 26 12:32:30 yeah Oct 26 12:33:09 as long as I can continue to make my desktop less relevant, I'm happy Oct 26 12:33:49 i want everything to be doable on tablet, but when desktop is available to allow the same data to be opened up and be more configurable in a larger arena Oct 26 12:34:30 some things are simply better to be managed in a large form factor than others - but those same things should still be possible in a more compact space Oct 26 12:34:30 and I want to be able to pull all of "my stuff" down onto whatever machine I happen to be sitting at Oct 26 12:34:39 yes Oct 26 12:34:42 I'm with you 100% Oct 26 12:37:36 bbl :) nice chattin guys Oct 26 12:37:52 later Oct 26 13:25:47 I installed mediastreamer, but it doesn't support ogg/flac yet, what should I do Oct 26 13:25:55 code it up Oct 26 13:26:07 shouldnt take you more than a couple of hours if you start now Oct 26 13:26:34 * lcuk laughs evily Oct 26 13:27:03 well, actually, I made it work on my N800. But I forgot what to install now.. Oct 26 13:27:25 add your workings to the wiki next time and everyone can learn Oct 26 13:27:31 and you will know next time you need it Oct 26 13:28:38 it's too late Oct 26 13:29:32 qwerty12_N800: I'm not having much luck installing anything. I think my sbox is screwed up; given it's been upgraded from the chinook beta. Oct 26 13:29:39 Half the i18n symbols aren't there. Oct 26 13:32:47 Jaffa, ah. I just reinstalled sbox. The quick compile of h-a-m trunk i did won't show packages in user/ Oct 26 13:44:58 very quick question Oct 26 13:45:05 i have 2 nokias here Oct 26 13:45:39 if i connect them via the wifi can i make saving a file into one folder on one nokia automatically save onto the folder on the other Oct 26 13:45:46 without me changing my code Oct 26 13:46:38 if you use gnome-vfs, yes Oct 26 13:46:47 via bluetooth Oct 26 13:47:31 hola Oct 26 13:47:49 i use scp to my windows desktop to do this kind of thing already but its not properly in the filesystem i have to use a custom browser Oct 26 13:47:59 hiya lopz Oct 26 13:48:08 vfs is a layer above file systems Oct 26 13:48:20 you use its functions instead of open(), read() and so on Oct 26 13:48:35 then you may use URLs like http:// or file:// or something else Oct 26 13:48:59 and on maemo vfs supports bluetooth Oct 26 13:49:11 I'm not sure how a bluetooth url looks like Oct 26 13:49:32 Jaffa, Though there is probably numerous bugfixes in h-a-m ; the only new thing I noticed was in the red pill settings dialog - "Use apt-get algorithms" Oct 26 13:50:22 then its not transparent to the app Oct 26 13:52:34 Bollocks... "/dev/mtdblock4 14.3M 94% /" - Looks like i need to modify localepurge to work on maemo again... Oct 26 13:53:02 lcuk, sshfs Oct 26 13:53:42 no they have gone now, my stomachs feeling better Oct 26 13:56:28 hmm? anyways, grab sshfs from extras I think, and sshfs lcuk@tablet2:/home/user /home/user/local/mount-dir Oct 26 13:58:05 nice! Oct 26 13:58:21 im just going to get N2 connected directly into the brain of N1 Oct 26 13:58:41 it's based on fuse (filesystem in user space) which lets you do some damn neat things Oct 26 13:58:54 any sketching or photos taken on 1 tablet will be instantly available on the other Oct 26 13:59:03 nice johnx Oct 26 13:59:05 just copy them into that directory Oct 26 13:59:23 yeah im going to Oct 26 13:59:34 thanks Oct 26 14:00:03 another reason to be on an all-Unix ecosystem :) Oct 26 14:00:37 heh i just need the desktop :P :D Oct 26 14:05:56 mkdir /home/user/foo ; sshfs user@N2:/home/user /home/user/foo Oct 26 14:06:04 ^alomost certainly what you want^ Oct 26 14:06:10 Anyone experiencing problems with the transmission in diablo extras-devel btw? Oct 26 14:06:10 now off to bed :) Oct 26 14:08:02 johnx, :) thank you very much, good night Oct 26 14:13:31 moo again Oct 26 14:24:10 ahh, I know why Nokia would coop with Kodak Oct 26 14:24:13 http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/24/new-kodak-oled-material-promises-longer-life-better-colors/ Oct 26 14:24:15 :) Oct 26 14:24:26 they read engadget Oct 26 14:24:46 OLED touchscreen anyone? :P Oct 26 14:28:56 AStorm: There is already a Nokia phone with oled (N85?) Oct 26 14:29:00 yes Oct 26 14:29:04 but Kodak has the better OLED Oct 26 14:29:20 But I would take the Kodak news with a grain of salt: better OLEDs come out every few months or so from different sources Oct 26 14:29:27 yup Oct 26 14:29:31 The technology isn't quite ready for large screens yet though Oct 26 14:29:37 what stops Nokia from grabbing the current best? Oct 26 14:29:38 Degrades too quickly Oct 26 14:29:41 4" is not large screen Oct 26 14:29:47 n900 OLED anyone? Oct 26 14:29:51 Large enough for OLEDs, sorry Oct 26 14:29:54 not Oct 26 14:29:59 Kodak managed 8" Oct 26 14:30:04 If I were Nokia I would rather collaborate with Philips Oct 26 14:30:10 at 800x480 coincidentally Oct 26 14:30:15 Sony managed ~14", it just does not live long Oct 26 14:30:24 with long life :) Oct 26 14:30:30 How long? =) Oct 26 14:30:35 read the article Oct 26 14:30:42 they say 65k hours Oct 26 14:31:12 better than plasma already Oct 26 14:31:18 65000 hours? Oct 26 14:31:21 yup Oct 26 14:31:36 It is not difficult to be better than plasma. 8 hours of howing a static picture trashes plasma Oct 26 14:31:40 :> Oct 26 14:31:55 * RST38h looking up LCD lifetimes Oct 26 14:32:09 I suspect they're twice Oct 26 14:32:25 The lifetime of the CCFL (the light behind the panel) is in the range of 25000 to 50000 hours until the CCFL can only attain 1/2 original maximum brightness. Oct 26 14:32:26 Lifetime of the LCD panel itself is around 300000 hours. Oct 26 14:32:32 mhm Oct 26 14:32:34 So "yes" and "no" :) Oct 26 14:32:38 so it's better and not :) Oct 26 14:32:41 good enough anyway Oct 26 14:32:42 LED-lit LCD should do wonders Oct 26 14:32:54 but LEDs have life similar to OLED Oct 26 14:32:54 :P Oct 26 14:32:56 Actually, Nokia usually uses LED-lit LCDs Oct 26 14:32:58 No. Oct 26 14:33:06 well, longer than CCFL Oct 26 14:33:10 You are mistaking LEDs for OLEDs. They are different anymals Oct 26 14:33:13 animals Oct 26 14:33:44 LED will live pretty much forever as long as you do not let it heat up too much Oct 26 14:34:08 OLED has organic components and will degrade, especially if contacted with air Oct 26 15:33:21 First bit was easy: http://bleb.org/software/maemo/h-a-m-grid.png Oct 26 15:34:40 ouchy jaffa, can you tint them so the main sections look very slightly different Oct 26 15:35:01 * Jaffa wants to hide everything but the "standard" sections (pushing everything into 'Other') Oct 26 15:35:14 However, I also want to use the same list view, as that should make supporting sub-categories easier. Oct 26 15:35:28 * Jaffa goes to finish watching _Back to the Future 2_, first though Oct 26 15:35:44 have you seen how i am trying to view the folder tree in liqbase? Oct 26 15:35:49 Nice work, Jaffa Oct 26 15:36:55 * Jaffa realises how much he hates doing stuff like this in C. For example, in a real language I'd use a hashmap of sections to build up the package list rather than an array of structs. Oct 26 15:38:45 jaffa - could you make that a tag cloud ;) show the sections size according to how many packages they contain? crashanddie did something similar in sdl i believe Oct 26 15:46:18 Jaffa: You can use hashmap in C Oct 26 15:46:31 Once you implement it of course :) Oct 26 15:48:10 gentlemen, please, DO NOT show sections with rectangles of different size. It is very cool but absolute bitch to work with, especially when you need something from a small section Oct 26 16:01:14 RST38h, i simply mean expanding the ones with more in - and it works really nicely : liqbase has something like it for sketches Oct 26 16:04:11 ~burn maemo.org Oct 26 16:04:12 * infobot pours gasoline all over maemo.org, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Oct 26 16:06:29 Yum...toasted Debian. Oct 26 16:10:12 lcuk: I'd thought of doing a tagcloud type thing, but a) concluded it could be a bitch with a section which contains a single package; b) I'd rather have it consistent with the sub-categories; c) there's no tagcloud widget that already exists, so I'll have to create one in a Gtk text area - and I'm lazy. Oct 26 16:10:55 * RST38h politely asks Jaffa not to get fancy and copy iPhone UI Oct 26 16:11:00 heh jaffa, totally understand - cant wait for vala to be faster on device :) Oct 26 16:11:42 RST38h: trust me, with Gtk+; my rusty skills and no good Gtk+ documentation, complex widgets or rich data types, it ain't gonna happen. Oct 26 16:11:45 lcuk: :) Oct 26 16:13:58 Jaffa: Should I tell you exactly how? Oct 26 16:16:42 The documentation is somewhat lacking but it is not that bad Oct 26 16:19:47 hi, everybody Oct 26 16:20:35 When I make monkey bubble, it returns 'make[2]: *** No rule to make target `monkey-bubble.schemas', needed by `all-am'. Stop.' Oct 26 16:21:28 Jaffa: You want this widget: http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.1/gtk+2.0-2.10.12/libgtk2.0/GtkIconView.html Oct 26 16:21:31 What does it mean? Oct 26 16:21:46 it means your makefile is broken Oct 26 16:22:34 Setting rows and columns and spacing is obvious Oct 26 16:23:07 * Jaffa adds the existing patch to #3103 Oct 26 16:23:19 ?? Oct 26 16:23:54 talking with me? Oct 26 16:24:00 No Oct 26 16:24:40 I checkout monkey bubble like this 'svn checkout https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/tags/maemo_4.1/maemo-monkey-bubble/' Oct 26 16:25:41 just install librsvg, nothing else Oct 26 16:25:57 * qwerty12 grabs Jaffa's patch, thanks! Oct 26 16:27:04 camel_liu: did you try rebuild all the autotools stuff with ./autogen.sh ? Oct 26 16:28:46 yes, I run ./autogen.sh Oct 26 16:31:14 melmoth, see http://pastebin.ca/1237018 Oct 26 16:35:48 Have any idea? Oct 26 16:36:41 qwerty12: what was the bug with your anti-nag patch? I'll at least put the reading of it in settings.cc so it can be read from ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager Oct 26 16:37:12 hi ssvb Oct 26 16:37:30 hi pupnik810 Oct 26 16:37:52 Jaffa: Ah, the settings.cc part is done correctly, I'm having trouble with the if statements in operations.cc Oct 26 16:38:01 what is new with you Oct 26 16:38:53 qwerty12: to do what? Should just be a case of adding an early exit to util.cc:scare_user_with_legalese() if the flag is set, no? Oct 26 16:39:00 * Jaffa should look at your patch before commenting :) Oct 26 16:39:46 Found it: #2710 Oct 26 16:40:00 Jaffa: That's the old one which gives the user no choice in the matter :) Oct 26 16:40:15 Wait a sec, I'll dig up my settings.cc & settings.h Oct 26 16:40:27 A brute force patch, that ;-) Oct 26 16:40:48 pupnik810: not much new regarding coding/optimizing stuff, mostly looking for an apartment to rent at the moment Oct 26 16:41:05 hi pupnik810 Oct 26 16:43:01 Could anyone take a look http://pastebin.ca/1237018, make error of monkey bubble Oct 26 16:44:10 Jaffa: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/temp/settings.cc & http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/temp/settings.h (Sorry, I'm too lazy to diff it). That part is implemented correctly, the value is saved and read for the legal stuff. The problem I had was integrating it with the operations.cc where the function to call the install stuff actually comes. I came up with this in the end which doesn't work [well]: http://slexy.org/view/s2qgfE3auX . If you Oct 26 16:44:10 look at the original operations.cc, you will see what I was trying to do Oct 26 16:44:28 * Jaffa grabs Oct 26 16:44:57 In Linux, configure, compile, make are so complex and difficult to figure out Oct 26 16:46:27 hi solmumaha ... need to get internet (umts) this week Oct 26 16:46:27 then back in biz... Oct 26 16:46:55 back for good? Oct 26 16:49:34 camel: You do not need this stuff Oct 26 16:49:46 crap, i destroyed my scracthbox env Oct 26 16:49:48 waht? Oct 26 16:49:56 melmoth: I've done that 5 times :( Oct 26 16:50:15 What do you mean that I do not need it? Oct 26 16:50:26 isn it a good time for a fresh nice reinstall ? Oct 26 16:51:02 Heh, I'm going to do that when I reformat (and resize) my ubuntu install when I install intrepid Oct 26 16:51:18 To me, a ubuntu upgrade is never as complete as a windows upgrade :/ Oct 26 16:52:17 my scrarchbox was in a debian xen vm. Oct 26 16:52:26 well, it s still there. Oct 26 16:52:39 it s just that all python things reguse to import gconf module anymore. Oct 26 16:52:40 Jaffa: http://pastebin.ca/984820 Oct 26 16:52:49 and go from there Oct 26 16:52:57 let s reinstall a fresh vm. Will not hurt. Oct 26 16:53:16 RST38h, I need to study how to develop a program like monkey bubble, so I need it. Oct 26 16:56:16 RST38h: ta Oct 26 16:57:53 I want to develop a game program on N800, which is capable of supporting multi player over network. Oct 26 16:58:11 RST38h, do you have any suggestion? Oct 26 16:58:50 I need some prototype Oct 26 17:05:25 qwerty12: I've attached a newer version of your patch which does the Right Thing[TM] (IMNSHO) in operations.cc Oct 26 17:05:46 * Jaffa foods. Oct 26 17:06:27 Jaffa: Ah, I see it on #2710. Thank you! Oct 26 17:08:01 camel_liu: http://ezide.com/games/writing-games.html Oct 26 17:10:54 camel_liu, many network games available .. www.pupnik.de Oct 26 17:10:58 ooo Oct 26 17:12:39 well i gotta run cu! Oct 26 17:26:00 I'm not going to program a game on Windows, though I know something about it. My target is N800 and maemo. But I'm new in maemo and linux as well. So I want to begin with a sample and I choosed 'monkey bubble'. Oct 26 17:27:35 melmoth and pupnik810, could you tell me such a sample that I can follow? Oct 26 17:28:18 camel_liu: i would suggest you read the whole article i pasted. It had been a great help to me. Oct 26 17:35:41 camel: It may come as a surprise to you but from my point of view Maemo programming is very straightforward while programming anything on Windows is a mess Oct 26 17:36:28 [as in "no main(), no uniform device control, no system-level libc, etc") Oct 26 17:36:39 NO HEART!! Oct 26 17:36:44 melmoth, the most difficult things to me are config, compile and make in linux world. Programing is not that difficult, but the things after that is hard. Oct 26 17:36:49 I can live with no heart Oct 26 17:36:57 NO SPLEEN!! Oct 26 17:37:04 But no hands and no legs are kinda taxing Oct 26 17:37:08 heh Oct 26 17:37:23 TAX ALL HANDS AND LEGS FOR GREAT PROFIT!! Oct 26 17:37:24 camel: 1. You do not need config. Oct 26 17:37:34 CONFIG > YOU Oct 26 17:37:37 the article i mentionned will not teach you anything about makefile, it s not even a C article. Though, it s really interesting if your issue was "multiplayer network game" Oct 26 17:37:47 camel: 2. Make is the same as on Windows, the only reason why you do not know it is because MSVC does it for you Oct 26 17:38:16 camel: 3. Both Linux and Windows compile C/C++ into native code so I do not see what is "difficult" about compilation Oct 26 17:38:31 melmoth: Wrong article then. A moment. Oct 26 17:38:40 Yes, in MSVS, we can focus on program itself Oct 26 17:39:18 same in Unix Oct 26 17:39:25 I have developed many programs in Windows. But It's totally different thing in Linux Oct 26 17:39:40 In fact, in MSVC I mostly focus on how to avoid crashing it Oct 26 17:39:51 I once ate an apple that was totaly different then an orange Oct 26 17:40:00 it was scary because there were both fruit Oct 26 17:40:05 I wasn't prepared Oct 26 17:40:25 Proteous: Did it leave a permanent psychological scar? Oct 26 17:40:31 YES! Oct 26 17:40:33 * Proteous cries Oct 26 17:40:38 Did it make you gay maybe? Oct 26 17:40:39 =) Oct 26 17:40:45 :P Oct 26 17:41:06 camel: A moment. I am looking for a really simple maemo example Oct 26 17:41:54 Is there any sample little game in maemo that deals with multiplayer over network? Oct 26 17:42:10 RST38h, ok, thanks Oct 26 17:42:16 only flash based Oct 26 17:43:37 Multiplayer over network is doe via TCP/IP Oct 26 17:43:45 You can learn about TCP/IP from a lot of books Oct 26 17:44:32 I know about TCP/IP. Oct 26 17:44:55 Totaly Cool Protocal/Idiot Protocal Oct 26 17:44:58 Then use your knowledge Oct 26 17:45:05 but only for good Oct 26 17:45:06 to see pee i pee? Oct 26 17:45:24 What I want is frame of that game in MAEMO. Oct 26 17:45:50 camel: Read this tutorial for general maemo programming example: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_bora_3-x_tutorial.html Oct 26 17:45:59 It will not require you to use configure Oct 26 17:46:25 Read a goog sample in MAEMO is the best way to learn, I think Oct 26 17:47:29 I have the tutorial, reference and manual of Diablo. Oct 26 17:48:41 I want to read a good sample game of maemo, and follow it to avoid config, compile and make issue. Oct 26 17:49:15 Though I think I cannot, I still think it is better than begin with blank. Oct 26 17:50:30 How about the game 'Biloba'? Oct 26 17:52:06 IMHO you should go look at sample source code, read documentation, and come here for concrete answer once you get concrete questions Oct 26 17:52:41 souns good. Oct 26 17:53:30 However, is 'monkey bubble' in the diablo reference manual? Oct 26 17:54:02 but it cannot work out Oct 26 17:54:47 The reference use 'monkey bubble' as a sample of porting,. Oct 26 17:55:46 And said, "Everything should go fine, and the game should be compiled properly." Oct 26 17:57:11 If tutorial, reference and manual cannot do their work, who need them? Oct 26 18:02:02 when I run ./autogen.sh, it said, 'Please add the files codeset.m4 gettext.m4 glibc21.m4 iconv.m4 isc-posix.m4 lcmessage.m4 progtest.m4 from the /usr/share/aclocal directory to your autoconf macro directory or directly to your aclocal.m4 file.' What does it mean? Oct 26 18:10:35 Forget Monkey Bubble. If it does not compile, forget it. Oct 26 18:10:43 There is plenty other Maemo games Oct 26 18:11:38 * Proteous cries for Monkeys Oct 26 18:13:07 Here is a repository with indT games source code: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=indtgames Oct 26 18:13:19 camel_liu: try http://www.pupnik.de/aliens-1.0.2_Nokia.tgz from http://maemo.org/community/wiki/GameDevelopment/ Oct 26 18:13:32 Pick any one you want, look at it, just don't ask questions before you understand what exactly you want to know Oct 26 18:13:54 how are dill pickles Oct 26 18:15:42 camel_liu: and makefiles are really simple, every software developer should have absolutely no problem getting familiar with them Oct 26 18:16:23 I got familiar with a make file once, she slapped me Oct 26 18:16:24 Jaffa: ping Oct 26 18:16:33 qwerty12: pong Oct 26 18:16:41 Proteous: Hey Jaffa :p Oct 26 18:16:46 :P Oct 26 18:17:01 qwerty12: marco Oct 26 18:17:16 hehe Oct 26 18:18:28 I can make the lights on my router and modem blink by typing Oct 26 18:18:38 it's mezmorizing Oct 26 18:18:45 * Proteous falls into a trance Oct 26 18:19:31 lol, I can type echo i12 > /proc/led on my router and the internet light blinks 20 times Oct 26 18:19:40 it's like magic Oct 26 18:20:06 evening Oct 26 18:20:11 not yet Oct 26 18:20:13 ello lardman Oct 26 18:20:16 it's only 11:20am Oct 26 18:20:19 Proteous: is here :p Oct 26 18:20:22 ;) Oct 26 18:20:24 lies! Oct 26 18:20:29 NEVA Oct 26 18:20:36 I know, ugt Oct 26 18:20:41 qwerty12, 'h-e-l-p-i-m-t-r-a-p-p-e-d-i-n-t-h-e-P-R-O-M-c-h-i-p' :) Oct 26 18:21:02 yacoob: Let's burn you out! :) Oct 26 18:21:46 timezones are just a fiction created by the government to explain away the fact that they put us to sleep and operate on use when we fly in airplanes Oct 26 18:22:18 luckly my pants double as a faraday cage so they can't read the tracking device they installed Oct 26 18:22:27 muhahahha Oct 26 18:22:34 hmm, where did they install it! Oct 26 18:22:41 don't ask Oct 26 18:22:45 Ah, from the timezone you're American Oct 26 18:22:54 pants are different over here Oct 26 18:22:57 :D Oct 26 18:22:58 heh Oct 26 18:23:10 you and your trousers Oct 26 18:24:06 RST38h, Sorry to bother you. What I want is a sample including everything I need. So I can learn how everything implemented in maemo. I want to start with a good sample for my life in maemo. I've browse the garage for several days. How about the game Biloba (https://garage.maemo.org/projects/biloba/) ? Oct 26 18:24:24 I want some coffee, RST38h can you come over and make me some? Oct 26 18:24:42 I'll take some sugar and a touch of milk Oct 26 18:25:01 oh, you'll have to pick up some milk on the way over, I'm all out Oct 26 18:25:14 I want a sample from expert. It's little, brief and correct with what I want. Oct 26 18:25:19 Oct 26 18:25:28 Proteous, mind going Mexico and sourcing me some ganja while RST38h makes the coffee? Oct 26 18:25:41 just ask RST38h to get that on the way too Oct 26 18:25:44 and make it snappy Oct 26 18:25:56 my coffee beans are from Mexico Oct 26 18:26:55 hehe Oct 26 18:27:50 is it the right place to ask maemo 4.1.1 install issue? Oct 26 18:28:00 sure Oct 26 18:28:26 the real question you should be asking is if this is the right place to get an answer for a memo 4.1.1 install issue Oct 26 18:28:44 maemo Oct 26 18:28:54 finding Maemo Oct 26 18:29:03 another Nokia classic Oct 26 18:29:25 were a small tablet tries to find his way back to his mother Oct 26 18:29:29 touching story really Oct 26 18:29:46 sjagan: Go for it, don't let the banter deter you Oct 26 18:29:58 * Proteous shuts up and goes to make coffee Oct 26 18:30:05 lol Oct 26 18:30:07 thanks. I was trying to install maemo. Running sh maemo-sdk-install_4.1.1.sh Oct 26 18:30:24 always time out at the end Oct 26 18:30:40 with chinook, i never had this problem Oct 26 18:31:30 no idea off the top of my head, what does the script try to download that times out? Oct 26 18:31:38 Here is the message Oct 26 18:31:42 Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.1/free/s/samba/libsmbclient-dev_3.0.23c-1osso11_i386.deb Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer) [IP: 96.17.109.90 80] Oct 26 18:32:33 it is able to 'Get' 425 files and it always gets reset here Oct 26 18:32:40 hmm, interesting Oct 26 18:32:43 so does anyone know if this is usable? i mean, if i go and do this will i be happy or is it really just for proof of concept hackery: Oct 26 18:32:44 http://sse2.net/rotate/ Oct 26 18:33:05 qwerty12_N800: pohg Oct 26 18:33:10 sjagan: get the newest .sh Oct 26 18:33:10 (ish) Oct 26 18:33:25 sjagan: there was a old one that didn't work with the broken servers Oct 26 18:33:29 lardman: started doing some hildon-app-mgr hacking today Oct 26 18:33:44 Jaffa: yes, I was just catching up on the mailing list Oct 26 18:33:48 Jaffa: looks good Oct 26 18:33:50 Mousey: that looks neat Oct 26 18:34:05 #2710 and the category one Oct 26 18:34:28 l7 yah, i'm please to be wanting to trying it.. but i fake broken inglish bad Oct 26 18:34:53 stskeeps, thanks my .sh is a week old. it may be a good idea. i will try with the new one today Oct 26 18:35:34 Jaffa, you forgot to patch the warning when installing a deb from the file system as opposed to a repo: http://slexy.org/view/s20Z7nCM1g (tested) Oct 26 18:36:53 qwerty12_N800: damn, will fix when I get home Oct 26 18:37:03 thanks :) Oct 26 18:37:03 sorry Oct 26 18:39:13 sjagan: are you running out of disk space or something funny like that? Oct 26 18:39:15 hi, where i can get n810 hardware manual? Oct 26 18:40:03 camel_liu: I am available for contract work. Oct 26 18:40:22 Otherwise, I am afraid you will have to do your own searching, reading, and learning Oct 26 18:40:48 what about my coffee Oct 26 18:41:00 Interesting that mvo's already implemented the red-pill non-persistence already in svn (was good to see) Oct 26 18:41:13 * RST38h hands Proteous some castor beans Oct 26 18:41:17 Here. Coffee. Oct 26 18:41:22 * lardman goes to find a drink and let all the emails/forum posts sink in Oct 26 18:41:42 don't let them sink into your drink to far Oct 26 18:42:43 "Politico is reporting that Sarah Palin has had enough with what her handlers are telling her to do. She blames them for her increasingly negative public image and wants to be herself." Oct 26 18:42:49 Please, PLEASE let her! Oct 26 18:43:02 lol Oct 26 18:43:23 She can start by thinning DC squirrel populatio Oct 26 18:43:25 Hmm. I think, thinking about it, the last SSU broke my modest auto-update Oct 26 18:44:48 I try to be extravagant with my auto-updates Oct 26 18:44:54 RST38h: she can come over here and kill off a few of the gray interploers too! :) Oct 26 18:44:59 RST38h, What do you mean? available for contract work? I do not ask you to write one. I just ask if you happen to know some good sample that fits my requirement. Oct 26 18:45:23 interlopers that should be, not interpreters or any other possible type Oct 26 18:45:39 heh Oct 26 18:45:46 lardman: Judging from the article quoted at dailyrotten, you are doing jolly fine job on that without her =) Oct 26 18:46:01 camel_liu> No. Oct 26 18:46:19 Got it. Oct 26 18:46:23 well a few reds have been found to be immune to the gray's virus Oct 26 18:46:26 SELECT * FROM World WHERE it is exactly what camel_liu wants Oct 26 18:46:36 SQL Oct 26 18:46:38 Query returned 0 records. Oct 26 18:47:06 lardman: Super reds! Oct 26 18:47:37 ah I see the link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/oct/19/red-squirrels-protection Oct 26 18:47:40 go you reds! Oct 26 18:47:46 yep Oct 26 18:47:57 Hey Oct 26 18:48:39 with inflation the way it is we may be eating more squirrel anyway, grays have more meat on them too Oct 26 18:49:15 probably less healthy, being American food stuff... Oct 26 18:49:16 You're going to have more problems with deflation in the near term than inflation. Oct 26 18:49:31 derf: That we do not know yet Oct 26 18:50:01 I'm pretty sure the central banks can't print enough money to replace all the credit that just disappeared. Oct 26 18:50:15 has mcontacts ever been releashed? Oct 26 18:50:34 At the end it is still not real money Oct 26 18:50:39 derf: million pound notes Oct 26 18:51:15 So printing it will lead to inflation, unless banks take it and stash it somewhere or burn it, turning it back into unreal electronic account balances Oct 26 18:51:15 These days they don't actually "print" money, they sell bonds. Oct 26 18:51:23 There aren't enough people to actually buy that many bonds. Oct 26 18:52:38 Anyway... inflation is caused by a wage price spiral... which is pretty hard to sustain when people are losing jobs. Oct 26 18:53:08 any excess of money released into general population will cause inflation Oct 26 18:53:21 even if this money is given as mortgages Oct 26 18:53:25 Sure... but wage price spiral is the mechanism. Oct 26 18:54:22 I don't think you can cause inflation with mortgages so long as housing prices are falling. Oct 26 18:54:22 well, not gonna see wage increases any time soon Oct 26 18:54:30 RST38h: That is, in fact, my point. Oct 26 18:54:49 grumble... i think i have a scratchbox environnemnt ready again..Only 3 hours lost. Oct 26 18:54:55 in fact, mine are shrinking, as they are in RUR Oct 26 18:55:10 melmoth: [whispering] SB2. Oct 26 18:55:58 SB2 seems smart but also caused me to want to rip my eyes out after trying to set it up with a standard debian.. Oct 26 18:56:02 :P Oct 26 18:56:08 It's funny, I swear last week everyone was talking about how financially sound Russia was. Oct 26 18:56:17 This week... not so much. Oct 26 18:56:38 i never try it. I just launch what the maemo site tells me to do without trying to use my brain. Oct 26 18:56:49 up to now.. it worked Oct 26 18:57:29 * Stskeeps would really use distcc + a tablet if he had to compile maemo stuff now Oct 26 18:57:44 melmoth, Congratulation! Do you install maemo SDK? Oct 26 18:57:45 reverse of scratchbox, but it is more sane Oct 26 18:57:56 yep. Oct 26 18:58:06 It cost me three days. Oct 26 18:58:18 I had one camel_liu , but to tell the truth, i just broke it trying to see if i was able to compile your bublle thingy Oct 26 18:58:52 i never though installing libglade could result in having python2.5 not being able to use gconf anymore :) Oct 26 19:00:05 melmoth: welcome to maemo sdk Oct 26 19:00:05 :P Oct 26 19:01:03 Is 'monkey' that strong to break your scratchbox? How lucky I am! Oct 26 19:02:52 derf: It is still financially sound Oct 26 19:03:10 i think i may have do some apt-get update while having the maemo-extra-devel repository enable or soemthing Oct 26 19:03:11 derf: But things are gonna get funny when oil prices go below $60 Oct 26 19:03:30 yes Oct 26 19:03:34 derf: utility prices are a non-wage price spiral (via raw material costs) of increasing inflation of course Oct 26 19:03:51 though they've dropped off a cliff now with the recession, which is good Oct 26 19:04:08 Especially given the amount of state-fed bureacracy that rose up in the last 5 years Oct 26 19:04:31 lardman: That's a supply and demand thing, which is healthy. Oct 26 19:04:39 Inflation is a question of money supply. Oct 26 19:04:49 hmm Oct 26 19:04:52 cost of living Oct 26 19:04:57 lardman: It also means smartphones will never take root in the US now Oct 26 19:05:02 I have to go to sleep. It's 3:00 am in my time zone. see u. Oct 26 19:05:16 RST38h: And the specific story I was referring to was: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3248672/Russian-default-risk-tops-Iceland-as-crisis-deepens-financial-crisis.html Oct 26 19:05:19 not sure the oil/gas thing is actually supply and demand though, it's artificial and heavily influenced by futures Oct 26 19:05:19 lardman: Cheap oil -> more driving -> no public transport -> no time to play with gadgets Oct 26 19:05:59 RST38h: other way round here, I save time driving Oct 26 19:06:06 lardman: It doesn't matter if your cost of living goes up if you can't demand more money from your employer. Oct 26 19:06:07 lardman: And if people have to sell their cars, they won't have money for gadget either ;) Oct 26 19:06:13 It simply means you have to spend less somewhere else. Oct 26 19:06:25 That's not inflationary. Oct 26 19:06:54 derf: of course, but as "inflation" includes cost of living items such as utility prices, it's an inflationary force Oct 26 19:06:58 derf: I think the article is a bit too alarmist at this stage Oct 26 19:07:07 derf: But let us see what happens in a week or two Oct 26 19:07:33 RST38h: Quite possibly, but I thought the change in sentiment from "Russia is the only one who can bail out Iceland" was dramatic. Oct 26 19:07:48 derf: Never heard a sentiment like that Oct 26 19:08:04 Although it probably CAN bail out Iceland, given its reserves Oct 26 19:08:10 interesting to see how the Russian billionaires were so heavily leveraged Oct 26 19:08:11 Well, Iceland asked Russia for help. Oct 26 19:08:20 s/were/are Oct 26 19:08:38 (unless those reserves are already stolen by "civil servants" by investing them into garbage) Oct 26 19:08:50 And over here people were like yeah, because Russia didn't just spend $850bln on a bank bailout. Oct 26 19:09:07 derf: Iceland only asked for a few billion Oct 26 19:09:21 RST38h: I think the point was that the rouble could go one the slide quite easily, which would mean it didn't have the money to do any bailing Oct 26 19:09:32 derf: And there is another side to this story people may not know Oct 26 19:09:41 RST38h: I know. We could have done it too, I'm sure. What's a few more billion here or there? Oct 26 19:09:51 But the thing I was pointing out was the sentiment. Oct 26 19:10:03 derf: Iceland is one of the biggest offshores. Lots of Russian millionares kept money there Oct 26 19:10:13 RST38h: Haha, that explains a lot. Oct 26 19:10:20 derf: Exactly. Oct 26 19:10:57 lardman: Not really Oct 26 19:11:26 * lcuk waves Oct 26 19:11:36 hi lcuk Oct 26 19:11:39 lardman: If needed, Russian central bank could draw an image of testicles with RUR exchange rate on the charts Oct 26 19:12:10 * lcuk wonders what he came back to Oct 26 19:12:11 lardman: The problem is that it would be futile in the long run anyway, so the central bank isn't doing it Oct 26 19:12:22 Yeah, it worked so well for them in the early 90's. Oct 26 19:12:45 RST38h: yes but that would devalue the currency, which would cause people to move their money out of the rouble, etc Oct 26 19:13:02 hi Oct 26 19:13:11 lardman: And as it is not doing it, and money leaving the country, and easy US-sourced credit dries up, there is huge need for foreign currency (remember, this place imports most of the stuff) Oct 26 19:13:15 can I update to the latest firmware on os x? Oct 26 19:13:46 lardman: End result: RUR falls in relation to USD, but EUR appears to fall in relation to RUR Oct 26 19:13:57 e|3k7: if you have a PPC mac Oct 26 19:14:06 intel :/ Oct 26 19:14:23 e|3k7, use a linux live cd :) Oct 26 19:14:24 lardman: they are not just printing it, they are selling and buying it Oct 26 19:14:34 e|3k7: http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/ might be a possibility, or what qwerty12_N800 said Oct 26 19:14:37 lardman: so it does not always devalue currency Oct 26 19:14:47 i have dual boot but my internets are b0rke in windows Oct 26 19:15:14 is there a direct link to the installer i can dld and then boot in windows and install? Oct 26 19:15:21 RST38h: yes, that's a possibility Oct 26 19:15:35 RST38h: my crystal ball is broken this week ;) Oct 26 19:15:43 Really, I wouldn't want to play currency markets in this environment. Oct 26 19:15:51 Stuff is getting _really_ hard to predict. Oct 26 19:16:05 yep Oct 26 19:16:22 About the only thing I'm still confident in is that the yen carry trade will start to unwind. Oct 26 19:16:32 But if I predict DOOM AND THE END OF CIVILIZATION it probably isn't gonna be too far off target Oct 26 19:16:35 e|3k7, sure, go on tablets-dev (google it) and download the latest image for your device and choose the file in the windows flasher Oct 26 19:16:54 ty Oct 26 19:17:26 But fortunately, I would never invest in currency anyway. Oct 26 19:17:35 just found it. i'm sure i could have found it on my own but i like dispelling doubts with you guys Oct 26 19:17:39 thanks Oct 26 19:21:22 http://gizmodo.com/5061705/smartphone-is-a-dumb-word-we-need-a-new-name Oct 26 19:21:29 (why not just use "comlog"?) Oct 26 19:21:51 comlog sounds fine to me Oct 26 19:22:14 my phone is called comm already btw :) Oct 26 19:22:20 *smartphone Oct 26 19:22:48 With latest ssu, battery info in ftd works: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/Ftd-battery.png Oct 26 19:25:40 which one is the swap key Oct 26 19:25:45 the little house? Oct 26 19:25:49 n800 Oct 26 19:26:00 yep Oct 26 19:27:03 RST38h: or comlink? Oct 26 19:35:35 was it penguinbait that made the easy flash > sd card cloner? Oct 26 19:38:33 qwerty12_N800: is that on maemo? Oct 26 19:38:48 Stskeeps, yes Oct 26 19:39:20 intruiging Oct 26 19:47:42 aquatix: comlink is the link, not a device Oct 26 19:49:06 "A draft US Army intelligence report has identified the popular micro-blogging service Twitter as a potential terrorist tool. A chapter titled 'Potential for Terrorist Use of Twitter' notes that Twitter members reported the July Los Angeles earthquake faster than news outlets and activists at the Republican National Convention in Minneapolis used it to provide information on police movements." Oct 26 19:51:13 *sigh* Oct 26 19:51:26 RST38h: myeah, that's a good point indeed (about the link) Oct 26 19:56:52 qwerty12_N800: I should've fixed the install-from-file missage. Oct 26 19:57:04 * Jaffa goes to have a beer, do some ironing (Mrs Jaffa is away) and watch a film. Oct 26 19:57:22 Jaffa, Cool, thanks. Oct 26 20:00:37 Hi, i installed esbox in eclipse ganymede but it doesn't work. When i select maemo project, i'll get "wizzard could not be started .... Any ideas ? Oct 26 20:01:01 is there something different about microB, seems like it's not responidg very well to clicks? Oct 26 20:02:07 oh nm Oct 26 20:02:13 i had to recalibrate Oct 26 20:21:06 screen calibration to the rescue!! Oct 26 20:24:32 flashed and cloned Oct 26 20:24:38 feel like a newborn baby Oct 26 21:02:28 RST38h: would be pretty cool if your sliderule would support at least hex numbers :) Oct 26 21:52:29 hate Oct 26 21:52:49 sscanf does some things different on maemo than on 'normal' linux Oct 26 21:53:11 sscanf("%s %s %s %s %s" gives me 4 filles strings instead of 5 Oct 26 21:56:54 eh? Oct 26 21:59:04 don't give mustard to poines Oct 26 21:59:06 ponies Oct 26 21:59:47 BugBlue: maemo uses same glibc like normal linux Oct 26 22:00:51 than my coding does suck [X] ACK Oct 26 22:01:00 time to do it tomorrow again from scratch Oct 26 22:02:07 I think you don't take something relatively simple into account Oct 26 22:02:13 write a small test prog Oct 26 22:05:19 maemo-sdk-install_4.1.1.sh was timing out for me. Someone in this thread suggested to try with new .sh file. this really resolved the issue for me. Thanks for the help Oct 26 22:23:31 zap: it's only 34 lines Oct 26 22:34:30 sjagan: cool, nice to hear that Oct 26 23:23:53 I built a test app using gtk sharp- the buttons respond fine to the stylus, but doesnt respond with onclick to a finger pressing the button. is this a common problem? Oct 27 00:55:26 hey Oct 27 00:55:30 where can I get os2008 HE Oct 27 00:55:34 can someone link me to it please Oct 27 00:56:04 ~tablets-dev Oct 27 00:56:10 tablets-dev.nokia.com Oct 27 00:56:46 thank you very much Oct 27 00:57:36 what's the hacker's edition.. Oct 27 01:00:08 Amalgamation of OS2006 and OS2007/OS2008 Oct 27 01:00:14 The wikipedia article explains more. Oct 27 01:05:47 <|rt|> anyone know how to remove the face plate on the n810. Is it just a matter of the 2 torx screws that are visible when you slide out the keyboard. Oct 27 01:19:46 gulp Oct 27 02:37:00 anyone knows how to join an irc-channel with telepathy-idle? Oct 27 02:38:14 /join ? Oct 27 02:38:17 Don't recall Oct 27 02:38:21 But XChat is better anyway Oct 27 02:38:24 It's in Extras-devel Oct 27 02:38:27 ~extras Oct 27 02:38:28 somebody said extras was http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Oct 27 02:39:13 just testing telepathy-framework - somehow they forgot to create a window to enter stuff like /join ;) Oct 27 02:39:27 New chat, maybe? Oct 27 02:39:35 I don't recall, but it didn't take too long to do when I tried it months ago. Oct 27 02:44:06 cool - got it Oct 27 02:44:35 I wonder why does emma_goldstein 's nick trigger my highlight. Oct 27 02:45:11 tehehe Oct 27 02:45:51 that's the gloriour roots of this nick :P Oct 27 02:46:54 :) Oct 27 02:47:14 Still, irssi should be smart enough to not highlight me on emma_goldstein Oct 27 02:48:37 I'm close to happy now doing irc with maemo-chat - and it knows how to highlight me Oct 27 02:48:48 XChat is way better Oct 27 02:49:12 I'm generally exceedingly happy with irssi. Oct 27 02:49:58 I know - coming from pidgin and missing autoreply for nickserv in telepathy Oct 27 02:50:53 But - it's a nice, clean and useful interface Oct 27 02:51:08 I'm on nokia n810 here Oct 27 02:51:34 * camel_liu hi, I'm back. Oct 27 02:53:34 May I ask what's the difference between diablo-sdk-testing/ and maemo_4.1/ in https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/tags/? Oct 27 02:53:49 https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/tags/ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Oct 27 02:59:57 2008