**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 03 02:59:56 2008
Nov 03 03:38:31 <l7> hmm, i'm not sure which program installed it, but youtube-dl-x is a very cool command
Nov 03 03:38:32 <l7> probably the mytube
Nov 03 05:00:22 <pupnik> http://benjamin-meyer.blogspot.com/2007/03/anigma-game.html   a nice game to build when ITOS goes to QT
Nov 03 05:00:27 <pupnik> when/if?
Nov 03 06:01:00 <aspect> what package provides the full-screen keyboard?
Nov 03 07:34:07 <pupnik> aspect: you can get the large keyboard with default system
Nov 03 07:46:24 <RST38h> good mo[o]rning all
Nov 03 07:48:02 <pupnik> morn
Nov 03 07:52:08 <RST38h> new sb2 for some reason requires installing etch tools =(
Nov 03 07:55:28 <suihkulokki> RST38h: the target is etch(ish), so you need roughly matching tools
Nov 03 07:58:09 <RST38h> yes but I am normally using host tools
Nov 03 08:37:25 <joueur_> hi ... when i disable R&D mode, is serial-console switched off ? thanks...
Nov 03 08:42:26 <RST38h> shit, maemo sdk is broken again
Nov 03 08:44:27 <RST38h> [SB2 devel chinook40_armel] fms@ubuntu Maemo $ ls
Nov 03 08:44:27 <RST38h> ls: .: No such file or directory
Nov 03 08:44:38 <RST38h> ok, reinstalling everything
Nov 03 08:48:18 <RST38h> ~curse Nokia engineers for putting their own petty interests before the real developers' interests
Nov 03 08:48:19 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Nokia engineers for putting their own petty interests before the real developers' interests !
Nov 03 08:49:41 <joueur_> R&D mode? pls...
Nov 03 08:50:05 <joueur_> yes / no ?
Nov 03 08:50:53 <RST38h> maybe.
Nov 03 08:52:41 <StsN800> RST38h, how should the sdk be then?
Nov 03 09:02:03 <RST38h> Anybody knows what advantages 2007q3 toolchain has before 2005q3?
Nov 03 09:11:39 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 03 09:30:54 <RST38h> Ok, SB2 on Intrepid is broken =(
Nov 03 09:32:21 <RST38h> does not see host file system
Nov 03 09:44:46 * aquatix is currently updating to 8.10
Nov 03 09:46:51 <RST38h> aquatix: be prepared for snafu
Nov 03 09:47:01 <RST38h> At least if you are using SB2
Nov 03 09:47:30 <aquatix> sb2?
Nov 03 09:47:32 * RST38h suddenly remembers today is the workday for Finland, so there is hope Nokia folks will answer quickly
Nov 03 09:48:01 <RST38h> aquatix: scratchbbox2
Nov 03 09:48:05 <aquatix> ah
Nov 03 09:48:43 <RST38h> Sts: Answering your question, I want SDK to be a host-based toolchain that lets you compile tablet stuff on the host without any extra crap.
Nov 03 09:49:09 <RST38h> Just like with any other embedded/mobile device
Nov 03 09:52:27 <RST38h> and I also want a choice of Linux or Windows (which becomes possible if you do your toolchain strighforwardly)
Nov 03 09:53:22 <suihkulokki> it's called virtualization :)
Nov 03 09:53:54 <RST38h> Sorry, but I do not want virtualization, ok? Just want plain toolchain that works
Nov 03 09:54:48 <StsN800> RST38h, and access to emulator images and deployment ability (deploy to usb connected tablet, or to an emulator with a full maemo image inside, alongside toolchain would be a bonus?
Nov 03 09:54:54 <RST38h> Doesn't break with every minor Ubuntu release. Doesn't require me to mount host fs as NFS volume. Doesn't ask me to install VMWare on Windows
Nov 03 09:55:09 <RST38h> Sts: No. I have got SCP.
Nov 03 09:56:00 <RST38h> Sts: Works over WiFi, no USB cable required, lets me instantly deploy to the real tablet.
Nov 03 09:56:06 <StsN800> k
Nov 03 09:56:19 <suihkulokki> I pull in the all-evading iphone defense: The iphone SDK requires a OS X and people don't have a problem with it
Nov 03 09:56:59 * RST38h remembers XBox360 SDK requiring OSX
Nov 03 09:57:19 <suihkulokki> I'm fairly certain N should invest in making a SDK that works really well in one enviroiment instead of making a SDK that works mediocrily on many systems (as now)
Nov 03 09:57:38 <RST38h> But considering how constrained iPhone development process is, we can disregard iPhone "SDK"
Nov 03 09:58:17 <RST38h> suihkulokki: Right now, we have got SDk that works mediocrily in one environment
Nov 03 09:58:23 <RST38h> i.e. the worst combination
Nov 03 09:59:19 <RST38h> and the main reason being trying to be too "smart" with virtualization.
Nov 03 10:00:14 <StsN800> RST38h, but a sdk that provides ability for both scp and emu is ok, optional feature?
Nov 03 10:00:38 <RST38h> Sts: As long as it does not mess the main workflow
Nov 03 10:03:01 <StsN800> its a toolchain with extra utils. there is still the problem with cpu transparency?
Nov 03 10:05:07 <cbx333> guys
Nov 03 10:05:14 <cbx333> what is FIASCO?
Nov 03 10:05:31 <cbx333> a la    -     ./flasher-3.0 -F <FIASCO image> -f -R
Nov 03 10:05:35 <StsN800> a flash image format
Nov 03 10:05:39 <cbx333> ahh
Nov 03 10:05:48 <cbx333> makes it sound like it's the next one up from Diablo :p
Nov 03 10:05:58 * cbx333 has been out of the loop for a while
Nov 03 10:06:10 <cbx333> I have to reflash as SSU broke my device
Nov 03 10:09:50 <hrw> morning
Nov 03 10:17:22 <RST38h> Sts: As I said, if the great idea of running stuff in the emulator does not make me jump through the loops with the normal workflow, have an emulator too, I don't care
Nov 03 10:17:54 <StsN800> k
Nov 03 10:18:00 <RST38h> Sts: BTW, if you do want the emulator, at least make its startup painless (i.e. no messing with Xephyr configuration and startup)
Nov 03 10:18:38 <StsN800> start-emu & ;)
Nov 03 10:19:37 <RST38h> or even n8x0 <binary-name>
Nov 03 10:19:59 <StsN800> yeah
Nov 03 10:20:04 <RST38h> and n900 <binary-name> to start Freemantle app
Nov 03 10:21:44 <StsN800> it really ought to be that simple
Nov 03 10:23:02 <RST38h> it does.
Nov 03 10:30:06 <hrw> http://blog.fortytwo.ch/archives/13-guid.html
Nov 03 10:30:26 <RST38h> Oh yesss :)
Nov 03 10:35:50 <lardman> morning
Nov 03 10:36:18 <RST38h> lardmann
Nov 03 10:36:40 <lardman> that's the German me?
Nov 03 10:37:21 * X-Fade has met lardman's German speaking alterego ;)
Nov 03 10:37:55 <lardman> "Bier bitte?"
Nov 03 10:40:07 <X-Fade> No, you actually spoke some more words ;)
Nov 03 10:41:13 <lardman> ah, yeah the beer helps :)
Nov 03 10:41:33 <lardman> Otherwise I can just talk about gas turbines, not very exciting
Nov 03 10:41:50 <lardman> ;)
Nov 03 10:43:19 <X-Fade> Heh, that can be interesting too.
Nov 03 10:52:01 <RST38h> How much beer did it take for him to switch?
Nov 03 10:52:14 <lardman> from gas turbines to normal talk?
Nov 03 10:52:28 <X-Fade> RST38h: We don't speak about what happened in Berlin ;)
Nov 03 10:53:35 <RST38h> Umgh
Nov 03 10:53:50 * RST38h now feels sorry he didn't go and observe the ruckus
Nov 03 11:03:06 <lardman> drat, I don't think I can make the meeting tomorrow
Nov 03 11:20:31 <pupnik> gerstoomphend das triebwerk in zee machschnell lardman!
Nov 03 11:20:40 <pupnik> meeting?
Nov 03 11:27:42 <lardman> pupnik: sprint meeting
Nov 03 11:27:54 <pupnik> in irc lardman ?
Nov 03 11:28:02 <lardman> yep
Nov 03 11:28:21 <pupnik> i don't even know where my N810 *is*
Nov 03 11:28:25 <pupnik> :/
Nov 03 11:28:32 <pupnik> <sigh>
Nov 03 11:35:01 <RST38h> all N810s go to heaven, so do not worry
Nov 03 11:41:27 <Stskeeps> johnx: i was wrong btw, hildon-desktop -does- exist, in universe, in ubuntu mojo
Nov 03 13:00:05 * lcuk puts 10p i nthe chan
Nov 03 13:02:26 <lardman> that's a lot of thoughts
Nov 03 13:02:51 <t_s_o> the economy may be doing the drain rounds, but i dont think we are that cheap, yet...
Nov 03 13:03:03 <lcuk> lol
Nov 03 13:06:03 <t_s_o> hmm, worriesome. strip reddit down to science, tech and programming, and the front page was left with maybe 4 entries...
Nov 03 13:06:54 <GeneralAntilles> I think I finally get the pro-stylus people in that stupid thread
Nov 03 13:07:14 <GeneralAntilles> They directly associate "finger friendliness" with "dumbed down" and "reduced functionality"
Nov 03 13:07:25 <GeneralAntilles> Which, of course, isn't true.
Nov 03 13:07:57 <t_s_o> i guess its gnome thats to blame, given their zealous stripping of options in name of "user friendlyness"
Nov 03 13:08:51 <t_s_o> people dont want to see that happen to their pocketable geek toy
Nov 03 13:09:16 <GeneralAntilles> I still say if it bothers you that much, install XFCE and call it a day.
Nov 03 13:10:30 <RST38h> General: at least they are not asking for tongue-operated UI
Nov 03 13:10:54 <RST38h> But there is a pretty good and bullet proof argument against these guys
Nov 03 13:10:55 <GeneralAntilles> Mouth computing
Nov 03 13:11:04 <GeneralAntilles> That'd be interesting to see.
Nov 03 13:11:23 <GeneralAntilles> Fits with the cattle-like way most people behave.
Nov 03 13:12:06 <RST38h> "Judging from S60 Touch (5800) device, Nokia sees reason for BOTH pen and finger support in its products. Actively and fanatically proposing finger-only UI basically goes astray of Nokia's business model. Case closed."
Nov 03 13:12:49 <t_s_o> where is that quoted from?
Nov 03 13:13:58 <t_s_o> i think people will worry less if nokia can provide some way for the user to replace the default gui with another, without the need to hack around proprietary nokia elements...
Nov 03 13:15:16 <lcuk> i want finger friendly uis because i want to use them with my stylus.  flicking around a fast interface and hitting every single box is a great feeling - its almost like playing an instrument
Nov 03 13:15:24 <RST38h> t_s_o: It's not quoted, I can produce this bullshit from my own brain
Nov 03 13:15:44 <lcuk> RST38h, but you "quoted" it
Nov 03 13:16:21 <RST38h> lcuk: Just because I put quote marks, doesn't mean I quote it from somewhere. If I quote some source, I always attribute it.
Nov 03 13:16:46 <lcuk> "cool, ok then"
Nov 03 13:16:49 <RST38h> hehe
Nov 03 13:17:05 <lcuk> "you know, this is quite easy" - lcuk
Nov 03 13:17:16 <RST38h> You forgot (C).
Nov 03 13:17:20 <RST38h> =)
Nov 03 13:17:49 <RST38h> Hell, Motorola is still releasing new phones! Feels like watching hair grow on a corpse
Nov 03 13:19:28 <lcuk> "is that a quote, or you talking?"
Nov 03 13:19:31 <inz> RST, you do that a lot?
Nov 03 13:20:08 <RST38h> inz: Thankfully, no.
Nov 03 13:20:37 <lcuk> bbl
Nov 03 13:24:06 <lopz> hola
Nov 03 14:01:09 <Khertan> Hello everybody !
Nov 03 14:01:31 <X-Fade> Khertan: I have approved your project.
Nov 03 14:01:47 <Khertan> ah :)
Nov 03 14:01:54 <Khertan> project is already coded :)
Nov 03 14:01:59 <Khertan> just need to do icon :)
Nov 03 14:02:01 <Khertan> thx
Nov 03 14:02:12 <Khertan> just a question about garage
Nov 03 14:02:17 <X-Fade> Heh, train rides were long enough? :)
Nov 03 14:03:10 <Khertan> i am at work now :)
Nov 03 14:03:28 <Khertan> does svn browser on garage is delayed ?
Nov 03 14:03:41 <Khertan> as i ve just uploaded the source of mCalendar 0.5
Nov 03 14:03:54 <Khertan> and don't see it in garage source browser .
Nov 03 14:03:58 <X-Fade> It should not?
Nov 03 14:04:06 <Khertan> and as it s the first time i use svn
Nov 03 14:04:28 <Khertan> i 'm not sure doing thing right :)
Nov 03 14:04:33 <X-Fade> I see a 2 minues old commit?
Nov 03 14:04:40 <Khertan> so it s ok :)
Nov 03 14:04:48 <X-Fade> " First upload to svn"
Nov 03 14:04:58 <Khertan> :)
Nov 03 14:05:01 <Khertan> yep great
Nov 03 14:05:12 <Khertan> thx i see it too now
Nov 03 14:05:41 <Khertan> (uploaded from pygtkeditor 3.0 and the first try of svn support)
Nov 03 14:11:30 <Khertan> svn is really easy to use in fact
Nov 03 14:11:44 <Khertan> i don't understand why i ven't use it before
Nov 03 14:24:04 <melmoth> YO Khertan
Nov 03 14:24:25 <melmoth> Say, about the hildon border bug thingy. I was thinking.
Nov 03 14:24:43 <melmoth> why dont you use simply a gtk window for mcalendar ?
Nov 03 14:25:05 <melmoth> you should then be able to workaround the problem and not experience the border in non full screen mode.
Nov 03 14:47:28 <bergie> all right, now ITT activity affects your maemo.org karma... http://maemo.org/profile/view/fredp/
Nov 03 14:47:51 <bergie> (note: we have calculated these for only 600 users so far. check your own maybe around tomorrow)
Nov 03 14:48:02 * GeneralAntilles cackles.
Nov 03 14:49:30 <Stskeeps> how's your karma, GA? :P
Nov 03 14:49:36 <GeneralAntilles> Not updated yet.
Nov 03 14:50:00 <GeneralAntilles> "Itt posts" and "Itt thanks" should be s/Itt/itT/ (according to Reggie) or s/Itt/ITt/ (according to Quim).
Nov 03 14:50:42 <RST38h> speaking og karma, bergie, mine has not been updated since February
Nov 03 14:51:00 <RST38h> Is it done by hand, with abacus?
Nov 03 14:51:08 <bergie> RST38h: the dates are misleading... I'm investigating why the timestamp doesn't change
Nov 03 14:51:12 <X-Fade> RST38h: There seems to be a bug in updating the timestamp.
Nov 03 14:51:16 <bergie> now everybody's karma has been updated
Nov 03 14:51:23 <X-Fade> But the karma's are all max 2 days old.
Nov 03 14:51:29 <bergie> there are some 130k per-module karmas in DB
Nov 03 14:51:36 <bergie> that is around 10 per user
Nov 03 14:51:52 <RST38h> shouldn't there be only one per user?
Nov 03 14:52:12 <bergie> RST38h: discussion karma, bugzilla karma etc
Nov 03 14:52:21 <RST38h> ah
Nov 03 14:52:37 <bergie> prior to today we had 9 karma modules enabled... today ITT thanks and posts made that 11
Nov 03 14:53:23 <RST38h> aha, it's updated now, although timestamp is still in february
Nov 03 14:53:41 <X-Fade> RST38h: Yep.
Nov 03 14:53:51 <RST38h> No ITT sections yet though
Nov 03 14:54:23 <GeneralAntilles> What modifiers did we decide on for the itT karma?
Nov 03 14:54:25 <X-Fade> Well, it is max 2 days old and we just enabled karma for itt. So it can take up to 2 days before yours updates.
Nov 03 14:54:37 <Stskeeps> does counter-maemo stuff count as minus points in your maemo.org karma? *ducks*
Nov 03 14:54:49 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: sqrt(thanks) * 8, sqrt(posts) * 1.
Nov 03 14:55:02 <RST38h> do completely insane comments (see Darius) count? =)
Nov 03 14:55:20 <RST38h> or do they get multiplied by sin(time())
Nov 03 14:55:21 <GeneralAntilles> Also, does somebody want to push "Reevaluate karma modifiers" for this sprint?
Nov 03 14:55:21 <RST38h> ?
Nov 03 14:55:49 <RST38h> General: Are you sure you WANT this discussed? =)
Nov 03 14:56:08 <GeneralAntilles> No, not really.
Nov 03 14:56:19 <RST38h> exactly.
Nov 03 14:56:46 <GeneralAntilles> But maybe if we just nominate somebody to come up with their own unified system and don't have any debate. :P
Nov 03 14:56:57 * johnx reevaluates karma modifiers with a roll of the dice :D
Nov 03 14:57:06 <RST38h> 10d8 I hope
Nov 03 14:57:15 <johnx> 1d2
Nov 03 14:57:23 <RST38h> +5 to charisma
Nov 03 14:57:35 <Stskeeps> yes, evaluate on charisma instead
Nov 03 14:57:35 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 03 14:57:46 <bergie> Stskeeps: sure... if you blog about iPhone you get so many thumbs down that your karma dies :-)
Nov 03 14:57:55 <lardman> bergie: I'm still missing discussion karam
Nov 03 14:57:56 <RST38h> +3 to strength against trolls!
Nov 03 14:58:01 <lardman> s/karam/karma
Nov 03 14:58:06 <Stskeeps> bergie: and that's why i stay away from blogging
Nov 03 14:58:26 <bergie> Stskeeps: well, you can also push only maemo items to planet maemo
Nov 03 14:58:34 <RST38h> bergie: What if you blog about your imaginary iPhone? (Pandora)
Nov 03 14:58:42 <X-Fade> lardman: Discussions mail importing is broken atm. berie is looking into that.
Nov 03 14:58:45 <bergie> GeneralAntilles: with Hirvinen on board, we might have time for changing the karma calculations
Nov 03 14:58:56 <Stskeeps> johnx: saw my comment on hildon-desktop?
Nov 03 14:59:07 <lardman> X-Fade: cool
Nov 03 14:59:23 <johnx> yup. so it's in hardy? or ibex?
Nov 03 14:59:30 <Stskeeps> hasty universse
Nov 03 15:00:06 <johnx> ah, nice. I wonder if that was a recent build
Nov 03 15:00:16 <Stskeeps> it's the mobile-flash one as i see it
Nov 03 15:00:49 <RST38h> Heh, Ibex's FireFox just crashed
Nov 03 15:01:04 <Stskeeps> (bbl bus, - johnx, could you see http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed , - I've been really busy and need another debian person to take a look and see if its sane :P)
Nov 03 15:01:35 <johnx> Stskeeps, ok, I'll check it out. catch you later :)
Nov 03 15:01:35 <Khertan> melmoth : sorry i was away
Nov 03 15:01:48 <Khertan> why not use gtk windows ... for the fullscreen feature and the menu
Nov 03 15:02:41 <melmoth> full screen should work with gtk window
Nov 03 15:03:06 <RST38h> Enjoy: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/11/vzwdata.jpg
Nov 03 15:03:07 <melmoth> i wonder if the "hildon" menu could work ....
Nov 03 15:03:11 <RST38h> Brought to you by Verizon
Nov 03 15:03:31 <lardman> ~lart Outlook for sitting on emails for 5days and not telling me it hadn't sent them!
Nov 03 15:03:32 * infobot teaches Outlook for sitting on emails that M$ Access is a database. No, really, a database. A real live multi-user... well, ok, not multi-user, but a database. Yeah, that sounds right. for 5days and not telling me it hadn't sent them!
Nov 03 15:04:39 <Khertan> melmoth: are you sure that fullscreen works ?
Nov 03 15:04:43 <melmoth> yep
Nov 03 15:05:03 <Khertan> so i ll try
Nov 03 15:05:11 <melmoth> fullscreen is not hildon specific. it works in gtk too
Nov 03 15:05:54 <melmoth> for the menu, what i did once was not to use the hildon menu, but have it appear wit a tap and hold. so the application was usable both in gtk and in hildon
Nov 03 15:05:55 <Khertan> yep ... but menu ... ....
Nov 03 15:06:15 <Khertan> top and hold isn't acceptable for a finger friendly application
Nov 03 15:07:40 <melmoth> then you either have the border issue.. or you can try to put a menu button of some sort in a widget that would dissapear in full screen mode.
Nov 03 15:07:49 <melmoth> so it would be like what you have with a hildon window
Nov 03 15:08:17 <Khertan> yep ... it s a solution
Nov 03 15:08:17 <melmoth> just workarounds though. But i doubt the border "bug" will be fixed soon, if ever fixed.
Nov 03 15:08:23 <Khertan> yep :)
Nov 03 15:10:07 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, so, if we kill the old wiki, can we just disable the wiki module so it wont show up on the site, but keep the data on hand for a few months just in case?
Nov 03 15:13:05 <GeneralAntilles> Fun split.
Nov 03 15:13:29 <StsN800> indeed
Nov 03 15:13:42 <johnx> you guys missed the party. w00!
Nov 03 15:13:51 <StsN800> hehe
Nov 03 15:13:51 * GeneralAntilles looks over this Sprint's task list.
Nov 03 15:16:53 * StsN800 ponders what to make for dinner
Nov 03 15:17:09 * GeneralAntilles crave steak.
Nov 03 15:28:58 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, ping.
Nov 03 15:29:09 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: pong
Nov 03 15:29:15 <GeneralAntilles> You get my last message?
Nov 03 15:29:28 <GeneralAntilles> [10:10am] <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, so, if we kill the old wiki, can we just disable the wiki module so it wont show up on the site, but keep the data on hand for a few months just in case?
Nov 03 15:29:59 <X-Fade> Yes, sure that is no problem.
Nov 03 15:30:54 <GeneralAntilles> There haven't been any objections to the list, so I'm inclined to get started.
Nov 03 15:32:18 <Khertan> :)
Nov 03 15:33:53 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, what needs to be done to get the redirects going?
Nov 03 15:35:25 <GeneralAntilles> Does highlighting X-Fade automatically trigger splits? <_<
Nov 03 15:37:54 <Luria> i swear, its like 90s efnet today
Nov 03 15:42:45 <RST38h> Oh no
Nov 03 15:43:09 <RST38h> If it were like 90s efnet, I would be ruling this channel by now =)
Nov 03 15:44:08 <RST38h> +isn 16 with 4 minions of mine and 12 bots! B)
Nov 03 15:44:08 <RST38h> \
Nov 03 15:44:18 * Stskeeps yawns
Nov 03 15:45:27 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, redirects?
Nov 03 15:46:11 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Just give me a list, so I can do that tomorrow.
Nov 03 15:46:31 <GeneralAntilles> https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Kill_the_old_wiki#Redirects
Nov 03 15:50:20 <Khertan> X-Fade: is it possible to rename a project in garage ?
Nov 03 15:50:42 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Ok.
Nov 03 15:50:50 <X-Fade> Khertan: No.
Nov 03 15:51:25 <X-Fade> Khertan: You can't rename a project.
Nov 03 15:51:30 <Khertan> yep :)
Nov 03 15:52:00 <Khertan> ok ... i ll made a fork ;)
Nov 03 15:56:01 <Stskeeps> johnx: any initial reaction?
Nov 03 15:56:32 <johnx> a couple small reactions...want feedback on wiki or IRC?
Nov 03 15:56:39 <Stskeeps> irc for now
Nov 03 15:57:00 <Stskeeps> putting it out to general discussion when it's a little more complete and there's a thread through it
Nov 03 15:57:55 <johnx> testing definitely needs to happen on busybox vs coreutils. until then I'm not ready to sacrifice speed for the convenience of the small number of us who want to meddle
Nov 03 15:58:38 <Stskeeps> well, it also makes porting easier - there's a lot of unconventional hacks around in packages
Nov 03 15:58:46 <Khertan> why many ask for coreutils ?
Nov 03 15:58:46 <Stskeeps> and yes, proof is needed
Nov 03 15:58:56 <Stskeeps> Khertan: because busybox has bugs and isn't updated really
Nov 03 15:59:02 <Stskeeps> (on tablet, mostly)
Nov 03 15:59:13 <Stskeeps> doesn't support all coreutils functionality
Nov 03 15:59:19 <Stskeeps> is the biggest point
Nov 03 15:59:28 <johnx> and overall I believe those would be accepted as bugs, at least in debian. they're usually easy to hack around
Nov 03 15:59:33 <Khertan> yep but i mean what coreutils is used on a tablet ?
Nov 03 15:59:44 <johnx> s/those/places where bash is assumed/
Nov 03 15:59:44 <infobot> johnx meant: and overall I believe places where bash is assumed would be accepted as bugs, at least in debian. they're usually easy to hack around
Nov 03 16:00:15 <Stskeeps> ah, are we speaking dash vs busybox sh or busybox utils vs coreutils?
Nov 03 16:00:32 <johnx> well, both really
Nov 03 16:00:51 <Stskeeps> i guess it's a matter of finding if it makes any sort of difference at all
Nov 03 16:01:01 <johnx> agreed
Nov 03 16:01:05 <Stskeeps> i mean, deep down, the arm chip is a 166mhz
Nov 03 16:01:08 * qwerty12 even prefers busybox's  sh to dash
Nov 03 16:01:23 <Stskeeps> and when i grew up, that was powerful
Nov 03 16:01:25 <johnx> well dash isn't made to be used by fleshy hu-mans
Nov 03 16:01:48 <johnx> bash has been growing to take advantage of GHz chips though :P
Nov 03 16:01:52 <Stskeeps> yeah..
Nov 03 16:01:57 <Stskeeps> it's the windows of the shell world
Nov 03 16:01:58 <qwerty12> johnx, dash doesn't work well with the init scripts in maemo :/
Nov 03 16:02:08 <Stskeeps> bashisms, i guess
Nov 03 16:02:15 <johnx> really? now that is interesting...
Nov 03 16:02:21 <johnx> so ash is more bashy than dash?
Nov 03 16:02:23 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, bashisms with busybox's sh? :P
Nov 03 16:02:29 <Luria> RST38h, im sorry, i was elsewhere for your nostalgia of grandeur
Nov 03 16:02:40 <Luria> but have an eggdrop on me
Nov 03 16:02:59 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: yeah, if it implements those bashisms..
Nov 03 16:03:09 <Khertan> yeah but why you need coreutils on a tablet ?
Nov 03 16:03:23 <Khertan> busybox isn't enough for what for example ?
Nov 03 16:03:24 <qwerty12> Fair enough, I just don't count busybox as implementing anything useful :P
Nov 03 16:03:57 <Stskeeps> Khertan: many packages rely on the existence of proper coreutils .. but it's a good question really
Nov 03 16:04:02 <qwerty12> Khertan, find is made shit, ls is made shit, ps (though it is part of procps, not coreutils) is made shit, top is made shit
Nov 03 16:04:10 * Khertan don't want to troll ... just to understand ... as he always use busybox for the commands : python :)
Nov 03 16:04:20 <qwerty12> heh :)
Nov 03 16:04:21 <Khertan> qwerty12: ok
Nov 03 16:04:46 <Khertan> i use htop on my tablet
Nov 03 16:04:51 <qwerty12> Same :)
Nov 03 16:05:17 <qwerty12> I know the purpose of busybox is to save space but ffs, I expect to see busybox (and do) on my routers - not on my tablet.
Nov 03 16:05:30 <Khertan> hum ...
Nov 03 16:05:48 <Stskeeps> johnx: with coreutils and everything, ubuntu booted to console login in 12 secs
Nov 03 16:05:55 <Stskeeps> (udev as well)
Nov 03 16:06:02 <Khertan> many users complain about not having any space left on / to install applications
Nov 03 16:06:27 <Khertan> i know u can install it elsewhere or boot on sd
Nov 03 16:06:30 <johnx> Stskeeps, if I push a VW bug without an engine down a hill it will go quite fast :P
Nov 03 16:06:40 <Khertan> but a simple user don't know how to do that
Nov 03 16:07:19 <Khertan> so i don't think busybox is a bad idea ... (except when i ve try to use dpkg-buildpackage)
Nov 03 16:08:40 <Stskeeps> johnx: hehe :P
Nov 03 16:08:53 <johnx> also, I'd like to see Nokia's proposal on the boot process for maemo5 before pushing for initfs
Nov 03 16:09:21 <johnx> there are lots and lots of answers to the multiboot problem at earlier or later boot stages
Nov 03 16:09:22 <Stskeeps> the problem is really, we don't know anything :P
Nov 03 16:09:35 <johnx> I wonder if they do :D
Nov 03 16:09:46 <GeneralAntilles> Khertan, presumable the rootfs will be getting larger with the N900.
Nov 03 16:10:37 <Stskeeps> johnx: i have my doubts too actually
Nov 03 16:11:11 <GeneralAntilles> We'll know more with the alpha SDK
Nov 03 16:12:33 <johnx> we'll know about libs and such, but probably not system level stuff
Nov 03 16:14:39 <Stskeeps> johnx: well, or initfs being an alternate root partition
Nov 03 16:15:01 <Khertan> GeneralAntilles: n900 ?
Nov 03 16:15:30 <GeneralAntilles> Khertan we're not really talking software for current generation hardware
Nov 03 16:15:39 <GeneralAntilles> So the current space issues aren't entirely relevant.
Nov 03 16:16:32 <Khertan> hum ....
Nov 03 16:16:52 <Khertan> yep ... but future os will run on current hardware
Nov 03 16:17:14 <Stskeeps> we hope.. but doubt it
Nov 03 16:18:04 <GeneralAntilles> Khertan, unlikely.
Nov 03 16:18:44 <johnx> hopefully it will just be a matter of hacking and optimizing the community will be able to do this time
Nov 03 16:19:00 <Khertan> kidding ?
Nov 03 16:19:32 <johnx> no, we really aren't
Nov 03 16:20:25 <Khertan> hum ....
Nov 03 16:20:31 <Stskeeps> and that's one reason why we should have a base platform so it would be a matter of remixing the newer version :P
Nov 03 16:20:45 <Khertan> do you already get reimbursment for the maemo summit from nokia ?
Nov 03 16:21:45 <GeneralAntilles> If enough stuff is open, a community hacker edition seems pretty reasonable.
Nov 03 16:22:10 <GeneralAntilles> Actually, even as it stands right now with just the open wifi driver. . . .
Nov 03 16:23:57 <Stskeeps> mm, not directly impossible atleast
Nov 03 16:24:33 <Khertan> oh !
Nov 03 16:24:44 * Khertan discover that ubuntu 8.10 is available
Nov 03 16:25:30 <Khertan> And UME too ...
Nov 03 16:25:53 <Khertan> Clutter User Interface
Nov 03 16:25:55 <Khertan> :)
Nov 03 16:26:02 <Khertan> this remember me something ....
Nov 03 16:26:02 <Khertan> :)
Nov 03 16:26:17 <Khertan> User interface in HTML, Flash, Clutter, Python with GTK, C/C++ with GTK and Java
Nov 03 16:26:24 <Khertan> they forgotten some things
Nov 03 16:26:37 <Khertan> :)
Nov 03 16:30:05 <Stskeeps> johnx: any good ways of benchmarking coreutils+dash as sh vs busybox? memory use? i mean, i don't see many parts of coreutils running in memory..
Nov 03 16:30:44 <johnx> I was thinking about that. I guess the most common heavy user of CPU/RAM/IO is find
Nov 03 16:30:44 <Stskeeps> effect on startup, maybe
Nov 03 16:30:58 <Stskeeps> yeah, and that happens rarely i guess
Nov 03 16:31:02 <johnx> but maemo probably doesn't use find for anything big
Nov 03 16:34:06 <johnx> hmm, so maybe the big difference really is just flash taken up
Nov 03 16:34:21 <Stskeeps> mm
Nov 03 16:34:25 <Stskeeps> *ponders*
Nov 03 16:34:32 <johnx> and the only performance questions is ash vs dash vs bash?
Nov 03 16:34:42 <GeneralAntilles> What's the difference, a few megabytes?
Nov 03 16:35:26 <Stskeeps> and the question of mb vs portability ease
Nov 03 16:35:39 <GeneralAntilles> Portability is way more important in my mind.
Nov 03 16:35:50 <johnx> 11MB vs 400KB?
Nov 03 16:35:58 <Stskeeps> well the question is more how it is compressed
Nov 03 16:36:04 <johnx> sound about right? in terms of order of magnitudes?
Nov 03 16:36:20 <johnx> hmm, that's just coreutils
Nov 03 16:36:28 <johnx> bsdutils is separate
Nov 03 16:37:35 <ricko73> Does gpeCalendar support syncing with Google's calendar?
Nov 03 16:38:39 <summatusmentis> if you use erminig (I think is what it's called
Nov 03 16:40:26 <johnx> Stskeeps, back of the envelope calculations say that busybox might save 20MB or more
Nov 03 16:42:20 <suihkulokki> johnx: how much of that is translations (locales) and docs?
Nov 03 16:42:28 <johnx> no idea :)
Nov 03 16:46:49 * Stskeeps is doing some unfair calculations
Nov 03 16:56:24 <Stskeeps> johnx: completely unfair experiment, - procps, coreutils, bsdutils, strip away share/doc, share/man, share/locales vs busybox same treatment, no static linking, 2.2mb flash, busybox, 308k flash
Nov 03 16:56:43 <Stskeeps> (im aware there should be more in it, like sed and such.)
Nov 03 16:56:47 <Stskeeps> oh
Nov 03 16:56:49 <Stskeeps> and util-linux as well
Nov 03 16:56:58 <Stskeeps> was in the first jffs2
Nov 03 16:57:30 <johnx> util-linux is only about 2MB, mostly man pages too probably
Nov 03 16:57:59 <Stskeeps> i could personally sacrifice 1.9m flash on less pain of portability, atleast
Nov 03 16:58:12 <Stskeeps> where it returns to hildonizing things
Nov 03 16:58:20 <johnx> I concur
Nov 03 16:58:20 <Stskeeps> not fiddling with busybox oddities
Nov 03 16:59:01 <Stskeeps> (who needs ls locales anyway besides "C"?)
Nov 03 17:00:59 <johnx> :P
Nov 03 17:01:24 <johnx> sorry, I'm a recent convert to the concept of localization :P
Nov 03 17:01:35 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 03 17:01:52 <Stskeeps> well i get it for some things like graphical UI, but for system utils?
Nov 03 17:02:25 <Stskeeps> it certainly makes support forums a lot more fun to try and decipher turkish shell errors..
Nov 03 17:02:28 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 03 17:02:31 <X-Fade> Wow, these Maemo Summit interviews by the C-Base crew are cool..
Nov 03 17:02:39 <Stskeeps> url?
Nov 03 17:02:40 * RST38h agrees with sts
Nov 03 17:02:57 <johnx> that's a very english-centric point of view :/
Nov 03 17:02:57 <X-Fade> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQo4ivOIVq0
Nov 03 17:03:03 <Stskeeps> johnx: and i'm danish
Nov 03 17:03:04 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 03 17:03:15 <RST38h> johnx: I am originally Russian
Nov 03 17:03:30 <qwerty12> johnx, I can't even speak my mother tongue :p
Nov 03 17:03:50 <X-Fade> More videos here: http://www.youtube.com/user/jocognito
Nov 03 17:03:51 <RST38h> johnx: Localized documentation is good, but UI and short messages may stay English, no problem there for most people
Nov 03 17:04:06 <johnx> so, English speakers in an English irc channel aren't interested in other languages... how surprising
Nov 03 17:04:56 <Stskeeps> oh, i like other languages, i speak danish(+ the deriatives of swedish/norwegian), english, german, and a tad of french
Nov 03 17:04:59 <johnx> splitting localizations out into packages seems like a reasonable approach
Nov 03 17:05:06 <Stskeeps> and yeah, packages is a good thing
Nov 03 17:05:33 <johnx> but dropping them entirely is totally unacceptable to me
Nov 03 17:05:42 <Stskeeps> oh, i didn't say dropping entirely
Nov 03 17:05:45 <RST38h> make em optional
Nov 03 17:05:51 <johnx> fair 'nuff :)
Nov 03 17:06:03 <Stskeeps> i dislike my debian wanting to make my shell danish
Nov 03 17:06:05 <Stskeeps> for instance
Nov 03 17:06:31 * RST38h aboslutely dislikes Maemo trying to show russian file modification dates
Nov 03 17:06:37 <Stskeeps> then again it's loads of years since i had that happening
Nov 03 17:06:39 <johnx> and I dislike excluding people from the community based on the languages they speak
Nov 03 17:06:51 <RST38h> you are not excluding anyone
Nov 03 17:07:10 <johnx> as long as they're optional and easily available, I'm happy
Nov 03 17:09:04 <lcuk> x-fade theres more to come from him - he says he had another couple not yet sorted
Nov 03 17:11:04 * lcuk thought these were meant to be internal videos though
Nov 03 17:13:21 <housetier> then you should send him a message
Nov 03 17:13:50 <lcuk> i did :)
Nov 03 17:13:56 <lcuk> thats how i know theres more
Nov 03 17:14:09 <lcuk> im not bothered that they are public
Nov 03 17:22:53 <Stskeeps> johnx: any opinion on "SDK" then?
Nov 03 17:23:06 * johnx rereads
Nov 03 17:26:46 <johnx> that seems 100% reasonable
Nov 03 17:27:36 <Stskeeps> drew a bit inspiration from how it is with mobile development for windows mobile.. and that this is entirely plausible to make happen
Nov 03 17:28:13 <johnx> it's pretty much the same with android
Nov 03 17:28:20 <RST38h> AFAIK Windows Mobile requires you to use Studio .NET
Nov 03 17:28:40 <Stskeeps> RST38h: yeah, but it was the interaction of easy access to deploying to device and emulator i was talking of
Nov 03 17:28:50 <Stskeeps> they get a full windows mobile to deploy to in their emulators
Nov 03 17:29:19 <Stskeeps> i don't care much for the studio .net part :P
Nov 03 17:29:35 <Stskeeps> it should be as simple as what we discussed earlier
Nov 03 17:30:15 <RST38h> Do keep in mind that few people use emulators for debugging
Nov 03 17:30:38 <RST38h> This stuff doesn't usually work well
Nov 03 17:30:53 <Stskeeps> ssh root@emulatedtablet gdb -p ;)
Nov 03 17:30:56 <Stskeeps> er
Nov 03 17:31:01 <Stskeeps> ssh root@emulatedtablet gdb binary pid.. i mean
Nov 03 17:31:33 <johnx> RST38h, qemu is surprisingly precise in system mode
Nov 03 17:31:34 <RST38h> Why not ssh root@realtablet ?
Nov 03 17:31:49 <RST38h> johnx: Maemo SDK qemu crashes in Hildon file requester
Nov 03 17:31:51 <Stskeeps> RST38h: it should be just as simple, but not all people who develop for maemo may have a n900 or 770 etc
Nov 03 17:31:55 <RST38h> johnx: Should I say more?
Nov 03 17:32:22 <johnx> RST38h, qemu *system* is not the same as qemu *user mode*
Nov 03 17:32:56 <johnx> the user-level stuff is really neat, but not really complete sadly
Nov 03 17:32:58 <Stskeeps> yeah, user mode one is crap
Nov 03 17:32:58 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 03 17:42:31 <RST38h> hmm, ok
Nov 03 17:44:24 <Stskeeps> one emulates a linux kernel and processor and tries to run a binary, the other tries to emulate the full machine
Nov 03 17:44:38 <RST38h> So, hrw is using the second one
Nov 03 17:44:53 <johnx> yes
Nov 03 17:44:56 <hrw> elo
Nov 03 17:45:17 <johnx> the second one is reliable enough to be a build machine
Nov 03 17:45:27 <hrw> johnx: you are insane - right?
Nov 03 17:45:34 * johnx checks
Nov 03 17:45:36 <johnx> yes
Nov 03 17:45:39 <Stskeeps> indee
Nov 03 17:45:39 <Stskeeps> d
Nov 03 17:45:48 <hrw> using qemu as build machine is plain crazy
Nov 03 17:46:01 <Stskeeps> yet it will work
Nov 03 17:46:02 <RST38h> out of academic interest, why?
Nov 03 17:46:07 <GeneralAntilles> Damn that insane johnx.
Nov 03 17:46:14 <hrw> RST38h: speed
Nov 03 17:46:32 <RST38h> hrw: How does it compare speed-wise with the real thing?
Nov 03 17:46:33 <hrw> n8x0 emulation takes lot of cpu power for hw emulation.
Nov 03 17:46:39 * Stskeeps uses a qemu-arm that distcc's if it can to a cross-compilation toolchain
Nov 03 17:46:45 <hrw> RST38h: slooooow basically
Nov 03 17:46:48 <RST38h> Let us say, given a 2GHz Penryn?
Nov 03 17:46:54 <johnx> scratchbox is a pain, I'd have to do tons of work to get the recipes in OE, and for building hildon in debian it's faster than building on an n8x0
Nov 03 17:47:17 <johnx> (on an A64): because of: more RAM (256MB) and faster IO
Nov 03 17:47:20 <hrw> RST38h: I usually gave up after few minutes on my 2.4GHz core
Nov 03 17:47:58 <johnx> well, compared to building in OE it's quite painful, but I can just set it up and leave it overnight
Nov 03 17:48:21 <RST38h> hrw: Isn't it translating ARM opcodes into Intel ones and running the translated code?
Nov 03 17:48:54 <hrw> RST38h: if you want to use qemu to have 'native' arm build machine then emulate Versatile PB instead of N8x0
Nov 03 17:49:12 <johnx> hrw, that's what I was doing. sorry if I was misleading
Nov 03 17:50:16 <RST38h> hrw: BTW, sb2 is broken again on Intrepid Ibex
Nov 03 17:55:48 <hrw> RST38h: I do not care at all about scratchbox maemo crap
Nov 03 17:56:08 <RST38h> Well, I have to develop using *something*...
Nov 03 18:03:02 * RST38h finally finished watching Fatherland. Much, *much* better use of nazi uniforms than Starship Troopers, but why did they add a happy end?
Nov 03 18:03:13 <Stskeeps> fatherland?
Nov 03 18:03:38 <hrw> RST38h: then use virtualbox/vmware with 8.04 for building?
Nov 03 18:03:45 <RST38h> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland_(novel)
Nov 03 18:04:00 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 03 18:04:06 <RST38h> hrw: I am not perverted enough to go that far
Nov 03 18:10:58 <||cw> RST38h: why not?  you'd at least know you have a clean build environment
Nov 03 18:11:33 <||cw> and there are premade vmware images to get you started
Nov 03 18:20:41 <Mousey> HAIL ERIS!!
Nov 03 18:22:30 <bigup> hello there :)
Nov 03 18:24:52 <kaie> is there a generic sip application for n810? or is gizmo a generic one? I signed up for sipgate and assumed I'd be able to use gizmo to use it, but gizmo seems to be tied to their own service?
Nov 03 18:25:24 <kaie> I'd like to make outgoing calls using sipgate
Nov 03 18:26:27 <bigup> kaie: i'm using the default sip application which works great with the sip service on my ISP
Nov 03 18:26:58 <kaie> bigup, what's the name of the default sip application?
Nov 03 18:27:35 <bigup> kaie: don't know exactly, in the communication folder, click the "internet call" icon
Nov 03 18:27:38 <X-Fade> kaie: rtcomm should work.
Nov 03 18:27:43 <X-Fade> http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/
Nov 03 18:27:50 <X-Fade> It supports generic sip.
Nov 03 18:28:01 <kaie> bigup, ah I missed that, thanks
Nov 03 18:28:07 <kaie> X-Fade, will try, too, thanks!
Nov 03 18:28:07 <bigup> :)
Nov 03 18:28:46 <bigup> as for me i'm trying to find an application like mauku to read facebook status
Nov 03 18:29:12 <bigup> i can't find another way than using the web browser to do it
Nov 03 18:29:45 <bigup> and according to mauku page and feature request, facebook support is not planned
Nov 03 18:32:59 <kaie> bigup, is facebook interested in opening up their messaging to 3rd party apps, allowing to skip their ads?
Nov 03 18:35:43 <Khertan_n810> Hi !
Nov 03 18:36:02 <bigup> kaie: no idea :(
Nov 03 18:36:07 <Khertan_n810> we can t upload anymore directly to the autobuilder queue using scp ?
Nov 03 18:36:11 <bigup> hello Khertan_n810
Nov 03 18:36:24 <Khertan_n810> hello bigup
Nov 03 18:37:24 <Khertan_n810> ach ! a fransoziche !
Nov 03 18:37:31 <Khertan_n810> s/a/ein
Nov 03 18:37:47 <Khertan_n810> (trahi par proxad)
Nov 03 18:37:58 <X-Fade> Khertan_n810: Nothing was changed, so it should still work ;)
Nov 03 18:38:11 <bigup> je vois ca :)
Nov 03 18:38:17 <Khertan_n810> hum ... maybe my stupid fai
Nov 03 18:38:32 <bigup> Khertan_n810: what isp?
Nov 03 18:38:42 <Khertan_n810> they have block imap and smtp port
Nov 03 18:38:57 <Khertan_n810> the french more stupid one : orange
Nov 03 18:39:08 <Khertan_n810> (data phone connection)
Nov 03 18:39:35 <Khertan_n810> scp use port 22 ?
Nov 03 18:39:37 <Khertan_n810> right ?
Nov 03 18:39:43 <X-Fade> yep
Nov 03 18:39:50 <bigup> right
Nov 03 18:40:10 <Khertan_n810> hum ... i get an http response with a telnet on it
Nov 03 18:40:30 <Khertan_n810> for security reason ... blablabla
Nov 03 18:40:34 <Khertan_n810> orange sucks !
Nov 03 18:40:41 * RST38h has finally compiled full ARm simulator in MIPS assembly
Nov 03 18:40:44 <bigup> i use free
Nov 03 18:40:53 <RST38h> too scared to test though =)
Nov 03 18:41:13 <Khertan_n810> yep but free don t have any 3g data phone connection
Nov 03 18:41:29 <Khertan_n810> at least not before many years
Nov 03 18:41:48 <Khertan_n810> gov didn t approve the fourst operator licence
Nov 03 18:42:00 <Khertan_n810> s/fourst/fourth
Nov 03 18:42:31 <bigup> true
Nov 03 18:42:40 <TPC> anyone with scratchbox set up who can compile a small perl module for me?
Nov 03 18:42:52 <TPC> I can't get scratchbox working here, and only need this oen module :/
Nov 03 18:42:55 <TPC> one*
Nov 03 18:43:36 <kaie> bigup, the builtin internet call app works fine for me, thx
Nov 03 18:43:37 <Khertan_n810> so now instead using efficiently network i overcharge it using all in http
Nov 03 18:43:41 <RST38h> why would you need to compile perl?
Nov 03 18:44:02 <TPC> it uses some c I think
Nov 03 18:44:03 <icebattle> RST38h - how does MIPS asm compare with x86 for ease of development?
Nov 03 18:44:19 <TPC> I tried installing the debian armel package, and it gives this error:
Nov 03 18:44:21 <TPC> perl: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/perl5/auto/Term/ReadKey/ReadKey.so: undefined symbol: Perl_Istack_sp_ptr
Nov 03 18:44:22 <bigup> kaie: you're welcome
Nov 03 18:44:35 <woglinde> icebattle mips is some father of risc
Nov 03 18:44:46 <woglinde> icebattle you have more register and simpler commands
Nov 03 18:44:48 <bigup> as for me i'm still trying to figure out how to grab facebook statuses
Nov 03 18:45:22 <Khertan_n810> facebook status ? what is it ?
Nov 03 18:45:25 <icebattle> I've written java bytecode (RISC based) for fun, but figure MIPS might be fun too
Nov 03 18:45:34 <derf> Almost any asm development is easier than x86.
Nov 03 18:45:38 <lcuk> icebattle, its a lot nice in asm, you think less about the stack and more about manipulating the data
Nov 03 18:45:55 * lcuk barfs on x86
Nov 03 18:46:08 <lcuk> hiya Khertan_n810
Nov 03 18:46:18 <Khertan_n810> hiya lcuk ...
Nov 03 18:46:19 <icebattle> I hated writing asm for x86 prior to 386. in flat mode it's tolerable, though
Nov 03 18:46:41 <lcuk> old feelings..
Nov 03 18:46:49 <lcuk> Khertan, how have you been?
Nov 03 18:46:59 <Khertan_n810> fine and you ?
Nov 03 18:47:35 <lcuk> stressed as always in the daytime
Nov 03 18:47:37 <Khertan_n810> but a bit tired fighting against the world
Nov 03 18:47:39 <RST38h> lcduk
Nov 03 18:47:50 <RST38h> moo, khertan, tooo
Nov 03 18:48:00 <lcuk> Khertan, sounds about right
Nov 03 18:48:19 <icebattle> Guys, I tried the agps-ui to speed up gps on my 810, but it is still waaay slow. Does anyone know of any other potential fixes?
Nov 03 18:48:20 <Khertan_n810> sound about stupid isp, stupid gov
Nov 03 18:48:29 <bigup> Khertan_n810: it's a service like twitter or mauku but on the facebook website
Nov 03 18:48:45 <lcuk> you mean its a website
Nov 03 18:48:49 <RST38h> icebattle: Have you verified that lat/lon you selected is close enough to your actual location?
Nov 03 18:48:56 <Khertan_n810> bigup ... ah ... and you call that a service ? :)
Nov 03 18:49:01 <icebattle> It sux that my 810 takes minutes (like 15-20) to get initial fix, when my dumbass iPhone can do it in ten seconds
Nov 03 18:49:14 <lcuk> i have a website - can i get my liqbase status displayed on my tablet ?
Nov 03 18:49:43 <icebattle> my 800 with BT gps is also very quick, so I'm convinced there's something lower level at play
Nov 03 18:49:45 <woglinde> icebattle ?????
Nov 03 18:49:50 <woglinde> ah gps
Nov 03 18:49:52 <woglinde> okay
Nov 03 18:49:53 <lcuk> icebattle, its only very rarely that happens with me now, my gps works.  and the missus likes it when the american gps bloke talks
Nov 03 18:49:54 <woglinde> yes
Nov 03 18:50:02 <icebattle> hehe
Nov 03 18:50:04 <Khertan_n810> how can i say to svn to ignore some files in my work folder ?
Nov 03 18:50:21 <lcuk> Khertan_n810, don't you tell it specific files?
Nov 03 18:50:24 <lcuk> and it ignores all the rest
Nov 03 18:50:29 <woglinde> Khertan_n810 yes
Nov 03 18:50:31 <lcuk> or do you just not want to update a certain few
Nov 03 18:50:33 <icebattle> lcuk - you are using agps-ui for initial setup?
Nov 03 18:50:39 <woglinde> Khertan_n810 svn propedit svn:ignore
Nov 03 18:50:40 <Khertan_n810> hum ... svn commit * is usefull
Nov 03 18:50:47 <woglinde> and than its the same as cvs
Nov 03 18:50:58 <Khertan_n810> thx i ll try
Nov 03 18:51:01 <lcuk> no - i just started putting it in the car and using it every day and night
Nov 03 18:51:07 <derf> Why not just svn commit, with nothing after it?
Nov 03 18:51:09 <lcuk> and only once have i got home and its not had a lock
Nov 03 18:51:21 <woglinde> but be awaere you can then only commit a whole dir
Nov 03 18:51:32 <woglinde> not this ignore file only
Nov 03 18:51:34 <lcuk> i use svn commit -m "reason"
Nov 03 18:51:40 <lcuk> i never do * :S
Nov 03 18:51:47 <icebattle> interesting. How long does it take to get the initial fix?
Nov 03 18:51:56 <woglinde> or I didnt figure out yet how only commit the ignore changes only
Nov 03 18:51:58 <lcuk> most days before i get down the street
Nov 03 18:52:05 <lcuk> other days its as far as the motorway
Nov 03 18:52:13 <Khertan_n810> svn propedit svn:ignore
Nov 03 18:52:23 <Khertan_n810> svn: Argument cible explicite requis
Nov 03 18:52:26 <Khertan_n810> ?
Nov 03 18:53:46 <woglinde>  Khertan_n810 hms
Nov 03 18:53:50 <woglinde> sorry
Nov 03 18:53:57 <lcuk> Khertan, before you do anything else, take a complete backup
Nov 03 18:54:01 <woglinde> I am waiting till he is comming again
Nov 03 18:54:04 <lcuk> manually
Nov 03 18:54:05 <woglinde> I forget the dir
Nov 03 18:54:13 <woglinde> svn propedit svn:ignore ./
Nov 03 18:56:14 <Khertan_n810> sorry ... disconnected
Nov 03 18:57:05 <woglinde> khertan svn propedit svn:ignore ./
Nov 03 18:57:12 <woglinde> sorry I missed the last argument
Nov 03 18:57:18 <woglinde> has to be a directory
Nov 03 18:58:17 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed#Boot_process <- more sane?
Nov 03 18:59:21 <Khertan_n810> thx woglinde
Nov 03 18:59:45 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, indeed :)
Nov 03 19:00:38 <Khertan_n810> now i have all my tools on my tablette
Nov 03 19:01:04 <Khertan_n810> an ide / svn / something to build packages with autobuilder
Nov 03 19:01:12 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 03 19:01:44 <Khertan_n810> just lack for an image editor
Nov 03 19:01:52 <Khertan_n810> to create icons :)
Nov 03 19:02:31 <Khertan_n810> leaving train
Nov 03 19:02:42 <Khertan_n810> and taking my car ...
Nov 03 19:02:44 <Khertan_n810> bye
Nov 03 19:12:56 <woglinde> hm he coud use gimp
Nov 03 19:20:30 <lcuk> lol woglinde
Nov 03 19:21:06 <woglinde> lcuk what? *g*
Nov 03 19:21:11 <lcuk> khertan is as mad as me - he does all development directly on his device, i only compile on mine
Nov 03 19:22:46 <woglinde> whaahhaaa
Nov 03 19:30:29 <jegp> anyone knows a wifi wep cracker for n800 ?
Nov 03 19:30:33 <RST38h> This channel is full of madmen tonight
Nov 03 19:30:36 <RST38h> jegp: no
Nov 03 19:30:40 <woglinde> RST38h yes
Nov 03 19:30:50 <woglinde> waiting for years in the n800
Nov 03 19:30:52 * RST38h swallows a live mouse and spits out the tail
Nov 03 19:30:57 <woglinde> done it in 2 seconds
Nov 03 19:31:00 <woglinde> on the pc
Nov 03 19:31:13 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, yum, give me the tail :)
Nov 03 19:31:21 * LinuxCode gives RST38h indigestion tablets 
Nov 03 19:32:35 <RST38h> see? madmen, all of you.
Nov 03 19:33:07 <RST38h> rebooting the ICNexus thingie...
Nov 03 19:33:14 <bigup> does anyone have any idea how to access facebook status update features or facebook itself without the web browser?
Nov 03 19:33:53 <Raytray> status have rss feed.
Nov 03 19:34:15 <Raytray> Pidgin can add a facebook chat account
Nov 03 19:34:37 <bigup> thanks
Nov 03 19:34:47 <Raytray> No problem. :)
Nov 03 19:34:57 <bigup> i'm more interested in user statuses
Nov 03 19:35:02 <bigup> a twitter liike feature
Nov 03 19:35:28 <Raytray> If you have an rss reader you can get the status updates.
Nov 03 19:35:43 <bigup> Raytray: i'm going to do that then
Nov 03 19:35:44 <bigup> thanks :)
Nov 03 19:36:02 <Raytray> No problem. :) If you need help finding the actual feed feel free to highlight me.
Nov 03 19:37:01 <bigup> Raytray: i'm trying :)
Nov 03 19:40:09 <bigup> Raytray: wow, taht was hidden !
Nov 03 19:40:23 <Raytray> It was easier to find on the older version. :)
Nov 03 19:42:48 <bigup> Raytray: what rss reader should i use? the default one or is another one better?
Nov 03 19:43:11 <Raytray> I don't read feeds on the tablets so I wouldn't know.
Nov 03 19:50:10 <Stskeeps> okay, so, all developers, people who are interested in Maemo as a platform either on tablets or on other places. http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed - It currently contains a write up of a possible vision of a future open source base for the tablet OS Maemo. The wiki is meant as a place for making augmenting or change proposals or competing proposals for the individual parts, as to reach a consensus amongst developers both internal and external ...
Nov 03 19:50:16 <Stskeeps> ... to Nokia how they would like to form future Maemo OS'es. My interest currently is 1) for you to read it through 2) tell me if it's insane or sane or what I've done wrong/that you can't understand and 3) If it's of decent enough quality and idea as to that should put it to a larger audience at maemo-developers and that way try to gain the notice of Nokia for instance. 4) Contribute with a proposal if it's a topic you're interested in.
Nov 03 19:50:44 <Stskeeps> idea/good enough idea
Nov 03 19:50:58 <Stskeeps> that i should put it to a larger audience :P
Nov 03 19:53:14 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: in the boot area you might want to talk about uBoot, which exists and works on omaps. grub is kinda x86-oriented thing
Nov 03 19:53:54 <woglinde> suihkulokki right
Nov 03 19:54:04 <Stskeeps> alright - was mostly meant as the whole bootmenu menu.lst thing as a thing for that
Nov 03 19:57:50 <lcuk> Stskeeps, seems reasonable to me, i dont know enough specific to comment though
Nov 03 19:58:33 <Stskeeps> lcuk: ta - i guess your focus would be maybe be SDK and booting process (how to deal with when things screw up.)
Nov 03 19:59:11 <lcuk> yes, but i hate the cross compile scenarios as we discussed the other day, i realise they are a necessary evil, but stay as far away from them as possible
Nov 03 19:59:32 <woglinde> he
Nov 03 19:59:46 <Stskeeps> well the idea is to have both ability to develop on tablet, with the aid of a computer, and on a computer
Nov 03 19:59:47 <woglinde> cross compile is a sane way for developing
Nov 03 20:00:02 <Stskeeps> or on a computer with the aid of a tablet
Nov 03 20:00:12 <lcuk> on device compiling lets me feel the device and become comfortable with it
Nov 03 20:00:27 <woglinde> hm
Nov 03 20:00:38 <lcuk> if you develop and build on a big fast machine emulated you do not get a true understanding of what its capable of
Nov 03 20:00:39 <suihkulokki> but you don't want to compile a beast like firefox on the tablet :)
Nov 03 20:00:48 <woglinde> *g* wait for bigger projects and you will love crosscompile
Nov 03 20:00:49 <suihkulokki> which would take ~20h on it :P
Nov 03 20:00:58 <lcuk> then a beast like firefox is wrong in my eyes
Nov 03 20:01:10 <lcuk> find a better way
Nov 03 20:01:16 <woglinde> hehe I once compiled X on a 20 mhz rs6000 machine
Nov 03 20:01:20 <woglinde> what a fun
Nov 03 20:01:58 <lcuk> suihkulokki, firefox is a big fat desktop app expecting to live in a big fat desktop environment and was written with no respect for memory or cpu limitations
Nov 03 20:02:02 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: I think that doc exaggarates the differences between debian and ubuntu, they are really (at base os level) almost identical
Nov 03 20:02:36 * RST38h wipes tears remembering rs6000
Nov 03 20:02:57 <RST38h> Nothing like a good kick in the morning to make its hd spin up...
Nov 03 20:02:57 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: that's possible, i'll add a remark
Nov 03 20:03:13 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, I'd do away with the signatures.
Nov 03 20:03:18 <suihkulokki> if you want a ARMvX optimized debian, all you need is time (or many build machines, upstart is only missing because the debian maintainer for it is lazy :P)
Nov 03 20:03:19 <derf> I remember trying to get to the lap early so I could work on the SGI that actually had 24-bit color.
Nov 03 20:03:22 <derf> *lab
Nov 03 20:03:26 <GeneralAntilles> I'd rather see it presented as one unified vision.
Nov 03 20:03:39 <derf> Only one did, the rest were 8-bit.
Nov 03 20:03:48 <woglinde> lcuk and you will not compile qt4 on the nokia
Nov 03 20:03:55 <woglinde> this last longer then firefox
Nov 03 20:04:18 <GeneralAntilles> We're not thinking in terms of OMAP2s here.
Nov 03 20:04:27 <lcuk> i may not compile every single little bit of qt4, but there has to be a coresubset of components required before you have the 17billion other files
Nov 03 20:04:31 <lcuk> those will compile quickly
Nov 03 20:05:05 <woglinde> lcuk nope
Nov 03 20:05:37 <lcuk> i find it hard to believe that there is no core.  doesnt this thing stand on strong foundations?
Nov 03 20:06:13 <woglinde> the core needs the time of firefox
Nov 03 20:06:26 <woglinde> and then you can run only very very minimal programss
Nov 03 20:06:36 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: and then discussion page -> changes to vision?
Nov 03 20:06:51 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, yeah.
Nov 03 20:08:37 <lcuk> woglinde, how long does it take to build on your system?
Nov 03 20:08:50 <GeneralAntilles> You're both right.
Nov 03 20:09:21 <woglinde> lcuk hm one hour or so
Nov 03 20:09:48 <lcuk> wow
Nov 03 20:09:59 <woglinde> or 45 minutes
Nov 03 20:10:02 <woglinde> didnt stop the time
Nov 03 20:10:39 <lcuk> still
Nov 03 20:10:50 <lcuk> thats quite a mammothbeast
Nov 03 20:18:42 * GeneralAntilles wonders if the table should be included in the policy: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Packaging_policy_proposed_changes#Proposed_sections
Nov 03 20:19:36 <Stskeeps> no "user/other"? :(
Nov 03 20:19:43 <Stskeeps> oh, there
Nov 03 20:21:52 <GeneralAntilles> It's not a valid category.
Nov 03 20:22:50 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: changed page structure now, looks good enough?
Nov 03 20:23:03 <Stskeeps> if so, i'll type up an e-mail for maemo-developers and lay a bit of bait out
Nov 03 20:23:40 <HeMan> Hi! Compared to the official release, what is not working on the HE releases of the 770 firmware?
Nov 03 20:23:51 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, structure looks OK
Nov 03 20:23:55 <GeneralAntilles> I'll copy-edit it right now.
Nov 03 20:23:57 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 03 20:36:56 <GeneralAntilles> Whew, there's the introduction. :P
Nov 03 20:38:21 <Stskeeps> cleaning up after a madman is tough :P
Nov 03 20:38:37 <GeneralAntilles> It's gonna be tasty when it's done, though. ;)
Nov 03 20:38:52 <GeneralAntilles> I'm also making it a little more consumable for management types.
Nov 03 20:39:15 <Stskeeps> *nod*
Nov 03 20:57:18 <lcuk> OMG! the world is going to end
Nov 03 20:57:43 <GeneralAntilles> Alright, through the boot process now.
Nov 03 20:57:50 <GuySoft> ~1200?
Nov 03 20:57:52 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, do you want to review these changes or should I just post 'em?
Nov 03 20:58:08 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, you drama queen :p
Nov 03 20:58:46 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: just go ahead and post, i'll look at them in revision history
Nov 03 20:58:57 * lcuk shifts focus to jaiku before the world ends
Nov 03 20:59:07 <Stskeeps> switching to another freenode server, sec
Nov 03 20:59:09 <GeneralAntilles> OK, I'm gonna do it section-by-section to make 'em easier to follow (and revert).
Nov 03 20:59:16 <lcuk> qwerty, its not drama!  its real, cristel says
Nov 03 20:59:33 <qwerty12_N800> aiiie :p
Nov 03 21:00:40 <lcuk> i suppose though its like when slashdot goes down - i actually get some work done
Nov 03 21:03:01 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: so far looking good
Nov 03 21:03:52 <lcuk> ok back later (good time to vanish)
Nov 03 21:04:00 <Stskeeps> .. looking good so far. I'm like yoda, just without the force :P
Nov 03 21:04:33 <lcuk> but you are little and speak funny
Nov 03 21:04:46 <lcuk> and live in a swamp
Nov 03 21:04:56 <Stskeeps> hehe. the last part isn't entirely inaccurate
Nov 03 21:04:56 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 03 21:05:13 * GeneralAntilles had a quotebox template somewhere
Nov 03 21:14:01 <l7> heya
Nov 03 21:14:17 <l7> any opinions on whether the i-Blue 757 is the best gps for an n800?
Nov 03 21:14:39 <l7> it's discounted to $65 USD now which looks rather nice
Nov 03 21:15:15 <derf> What's the chipset in that?
Nov 03 21:15:43 <GeneralAntilles> MTK
Nov 03 21:15:47 <GeneralAntilles> It's a nice unit
Nov 03 21:15:53 <GeneralAntilles> It's a 737 with solar.
Nov 03 21:16:08 <derf> Yeah... anything with MTK should work fine.
Nov 03 21:17:56 <l7> how does the datalogging feature work?
Nov 03 21:18:09 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, OK, my eyes are bleeding
Nov 03 21:18:11 <GeneralAntilles> I'll finish up later.
Nov 03 21:18:16 <l7> can you press a button on it to mark waypoints?
Nov 03 21:18:27 <l7> the 747 seems to have an obvious button for that feature
Nov 03 21:18:42 <GeneralAntilles> Neither the 737 nor the 757 has internal storage.
Nov 03 21:19:43 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: alright
Nov 03 21:20:46 <GeneralAntilles> So much less painful to create new content than editing old. :P
Nov 03 21:21:03 <l7> looks like it's the 747 or 841 for waypoint storage then
Nov 03 21:30:14 <|rt|> lol I just looked up the i-blue gps data logger and in the list of things that customers who bought this also bought is a nose and ear hair trimmer
Nov 03 21:30:26 <|rt|> oh forgot to say on amazon
Nov 03 21:30:52 <|rt|> http://www.amazon.com/i-Blue-Bluetooth-Data-Logger-Receiver/dp/B000NK3G2Q
Nov 03 21:31:09 <l7> heh
Nov 03 21:31:28 <l7> http://www.buygpsnow.com/i-blue-gps_159.aspx has a good listing
Nov 03 21:31:45 <l7> i wonder if the 737 edition 2 is different
Nov 03 21:31:54 <l7> i heard the 747 might have a few reception issues too
Nov 03 21:32:20 <|rt|> are these things better than the build in gps on the n810
Nov 03 21:35:18 <l7> yeah, i heard the built in gps is rather bad
Nov 03 21:35:23 <|rt|> yeah it is
Nov 03 21:35:34 <l7> too bad nokia messed that up
Nov 03 21:35:41 <|rt|> I tried to use it on a flight this weekend and it worked for about 5 minutes on the flight
Nov 03 21:36:00 <|rt|> so I have a bit of the flight path over phili but that's about it
Nov 03 21:36:06 <l7> hrm, i'm surprised they let you use the GPS at all on the plane
Nov 03 21:36:26 <|rt|> it was pretty cool when it was working....had the speed and altitude
Nov 03 21:36:46 <|rt|> they probably don't "let" you but gps is a passive thing so I don't know how they would detect it
Nov 03 21:36:56 <|rt|> I had the unit in offline mode
Nov 03 21:37:10 <l7> heh
Nov 03 21:37:13 <derf> My MTK device works just fine from planes.
Nov 03 21:37:21 <kriebel> that doesn't turn off bluetooth?
Nov 03 21:37:24 <GeneralAntilles> As does mine.
Nov 03 21:37:26 <l7> they have quite a few silyl rules anyway
Nov 03 21:37:32 <|rt|> kriebel: internal gps isn't bluetooth
Nov 03 21:37:39 <l7> derf: which MTK device do you have?
Nov 03 21:37:40 <kriebel> oh... yeah
Nov 03 21:37:44 <derf> l7: I don't even remember.
Nov 03 21:37:48 <|rt|> offline mode does disable bluetooth and wi-fi though
Nov 03 21:37:58 <GeneralAntilles> l7, depends on the airline.
Nov 03 21:38:03 <derf> Wait, it's in my pocket. iTrek M5+.
Nov 03 21:38:12 <l7> ah neat
Nov 03 21:38:33 <derf> And oops, I left it on. For the past 5 days.
Nov 03 21:38:36 <derf> Still not low on battery.
Nov 03 21:39:40 <pupnik> hmm
Nov 03 22:02:10 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, Hildon is likely changing, so existing Hildon applications will change, too. :)
Nov 03 22:02:49 <lcuk> yes GeneralAntilles i am aware of things like that, but that is far less upheavel than a major paradigm shift
Nov 03 22:04:04 <GeneralAntilles> I don't know if there's an API break in there like there was for Bora -> Chinook
Nov 03 22:04:07 <GeneralAntilles> Though I'd suspect so.
Nov 03 22:05:49 <lcuk> a bit of an api change does not constitute unworkable, anyway back away from hildon will a native x11 program load and display correctly - yes i know it looks crap, but it WORKS on the device
Nov 03 22:24:43 <l7> wow, mplayer is really cool
Nov 03 22:25:49 <l7> you don't even need to use clumsy interfaces to play internet radio if you just assign a few aliases to opening your favorite streams
Nov 03 22:44:22 <lcuk> obama just won the election
Nov 03 22:44:35 <lcuk> but lost his gran :(
Nov 03 22:45:03 <ccooke> lcuk: ah, yes. I'm 'looking forward' to the conspiracy theories from the more insane right-wingers :-/
Nov 03 22:45:24 <lcuk> no doubt about this one now
Nov 03 22:45:29 <GeneralAntilles> The world's gonna end.
Nov 03 22:46:02 <lcuk> nahhhh, he will do you proud
Nov 03 22:46:06 <GeneralAntilles> Pfft
Nov 03 22:46:10 <GeneralAntilles> They're all in cahoots with eachother
Nov 03 22:46:22 <GeneralAntilles> None of them are interested in looking out for the people.
Nov 03 22:46:54 <GeneralAntilles> No matter what, we're still fucked.
Nov 03 22:47:09 <ccooke> GeneralAntilles: okay, given that neither of the candidates are likely to survive a year if elected... which of the vice-presidential candidates would you prefer?
Nov 03 22:47:17 <GeneralAntilles> Neither
Nov 03 22:47:18 <GeneralAntilles> Like I said
Nov 03 22:47:21 <GeneralAntilles> They're all in cahoots
Nov 03 22:47:33 <GeneralAntilles> It's like picking between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.
Nov 03 22:47:48 <Veggen> ccooke: Obama will be shot while McCain will die of a heart attack?
Nov 03 22:47:55 <ccooke> the problem with voting being that politicians always win...
Nov 03 22:48:04 <lcuk> heh
Nov 03 22:48:05 <ccooke> Veggen: seems likely, doesn't it?
Nov 03 22:48:19 <Veggen> ccooke: not entirely unlikely, either.
Nov 03 22:48:56 <ccooke> let's put it this way. If I was a little more cynical, I'd be putting money on it if Obama wins.
Nov 03 22:49:29 <Veggen> ccooke: there are quite a few right-wing nuts that are likely to go through with it, yes...
Nov 03 22:49:48 <Veggen> But I still think I'd prefer Biden to Palin :)
Nov 03 22:50:27 <Veggen> Not that I know *too* much about Biden (he's been pretty anonymous, seen from here in Norway), but Palin? Anything has to be better :)
Nov 03 22:50:55 <GeneralAntilles> It doesn't matter, they all have the same agenda.
Nov 03 23:15:23 <mariorz> so when flashing a tablet should it be on or off?
Nov 03 23:15:34 <mariorz> doesnt seem to find it either way
Nov 03 23:16:15 <woglinde_> off
Nov 03 23:16:22 <woglinde_> start flasher
Nov 03 23:16:27 <woglinde_> and then turn on
Nov 03 23:16:49 <mariorz> weird, it just boots normally
Nov 03 23:17:26 <mariorz> ill try some mor.e thx
Nov 03 23:19:10 <GeneralAntilles> mariorz, follow the directions:
Nov 03 23:19:12 <GeneralAntilles> ~flashing
Nov 03 23:19:12 <infobot> [flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Nov 03 23:19:57 <mariorz> cool. thx
Nov 03 23:24:32 <mariorz> working now :)
Nov 03 23:25:06 <mariorz> hay how well does 0s2008 work on a 770?
Nov 03 23:26:00 <mariorz> installing 2007HE atm not sure if  woudl be better with 2008
Nov 03 23:26:20 <woglinde_> I think 2008 is better
Nov 03 23:26:29 <woglinde_> but I go to bed now
Nov 03 23:26:31 <woglinde_> good nite
Nov 03 23:26:37 <mariorz> nite
Nov 04 00:13:47 <l7> wow http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg06566.html is quite useful
Nov 04 00:14:05 <l7> run-standalone.sh /usr/bin/browser --url=$url is great!
Nov 04 00:14:33 <GeneralAntilles> browserd --url should get you the same thing
Nov 04 00:14:45 <GeneralAntilles> That's for OS2006, so I'm not sure how deprecated it is.
Nov 04 00:15:23 * GeneralAntilles chuckles at andre__'s South Park avatar.
Nov 04 00:15:29 <l7> hrm
Nov 04 00:15:47 <andre__> harhar
Nov 04 00:16:11 <l7> browserd --url doesn't seem to work
Nov 04 00:16:13 <andre__> GeneralAntilles: it's quite similar to an original photo i think
Nov 04 00:16:26 <l7> /media/mmc2/MyDocs $ browserd --url http://192.168.1.4/~l/mp3/foobar.mp3
Nov 04 00:16:26 <l7> browserd: invalid option -- -
Nov 04 00:16:26 <l7> /media/mmc2/MyDocs $ browserd --url=http://192.168.1.4/~l/mp3/foobar.mp3
Nov 04 00:16:26 <l7> browserd: invalid option -- -
Nov 04 00:17:17 <GeneralAntilles> Misremembering, I guess.
Nov 04 00:17:43 <l7> maybe it's been removed it it was deprecated
Nov 04 00:19:55 <l7> hmm, is it possible to get the osso media player to automatically play when i pass it a url?
Nov 04 00:20:15 * GeneralAntilles is sad he missed 666 on his maemo.org karma.
Nov 04 00:20:18 <l7> i'm using osso-media-server http://192.168.1.2/foobar.mp3 to play files from my computer
Nov 04 00:20:28 <l7> but i still have to walk over and hit play
Nov 04 00:20:47 <GeneralAntilles> Why do you need to use Media Player?
Nov 04 00:20:55 <GeneralAntilles> Why not just use mpd?
Nov 04 00:21:21 <l7> guess i haven't gotten around to trying it
Nov 04 00:21:27 <l7> i'll give it a look
Nov 04 00:22:01 <l7> what do i need on the server side?
Nov 04 00:22:55 <GeneralAntilles> One of about a thousand mpd clients.
Nov 04 00:23:08 <GeneralAntilles> If by "server" you mean "desktop"
Nov 04 00:23:13 <l7> yeah
Nov 04 00:23:19 <GeneralAntilles> Since the tablet's the server when it's running mpd.
Nov 04 00:23:24 <GeneralAntilles> http://mpd.wikia.com/?page=clients
Nov 04 00:23:39 <l7> ah i see a mac client
Nov 04 00:23:50 <l7> i thought it was unix centric
Nov 04 00:24:00 <l7> well, linux centric
Nov 04 00:25:18 <l7> hrm, too lazy to find my xcode cd
Nov 04 00:25:27 <pupnik> hmm
Nov 04 00:25:48 <GeneralAntilles> l7, it's available off apple.com
Nov 04 00:25:49 <pupnik> that esd thing on tablet kinda works nice
Nov 04 00:26:05 <pupnik> tries to calculate the net delay when connecting
Nov 04 00:26:31 <pupnik> never holds sync, but what would network audio be without bad sync and echoes around the room...
Nov 04 00:26:43 <pupnik> ... an FM transmitter....
Nov 04 00:27:01 <l7> GeneralAntilles: which section?
Nov 04 00:27:03 <GeneralAntilles> rimshot
Nov 04 00:27:08 <l7> it's not in apple.com/downloads
Nov 04 00:27:12 <GeneralAntilles> l7, somewhere in the developer's corner
Nov 04 00:27:18 <GeneralAntilles> http://developer.apple.com/tools/xcode/
Nov 04 00:27:18 <l7> oh yeah mean xcode
Nov 04 00:27:23 <pupnik> hmmm
Nov 04 00:27:26 <GeneralAntilles> First result on Google. :P
Nov 04 00:27:27 <l7> yeah only xcode 3
Nov 04 00:27:42 <GeneralAntilles> 2 was still available last time I checked.
Nov 04 00:27:44 <l7> i'm on 10.4 and i looked everywhere for xcode 2
Nov 04 00:27:50 <l7> i'm pretty sure it's gone
Nov 04 00:28:03 <l7> they want people to work on 10.5 or take a hike now
Nov 04 00:28:26 <l7> maybe i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure it's gone
Nov 04 00:28:36 <l7> the xcode 2 manual is gone too
Nov 04 00:29:16 <l7> xcode 1.5 is long gone i think
Nov 04 00:29:24 <GeneralAntilles> Weird
Nov 04 00:29:35 <l7> that's the thing about apple, all the old versions of things eventually vanish, which forces you to horde your own little repository of stuff if you want to use it later
Nov 04 00:30:22 * GeneralAntilles just upgrades.
Nov 04 00:30:52 <l7> yeah, that's usually the thing to do
Nov 04 00:31:06 <l7> though occasionally the old versions are better or less restrictive in some ways
Nov 04 00:35:49 <l7> upgrade cycles are also a good time to be forced to upgrade software that works fine in one version of the OS but is broken in the next
Nov 04 00:36:08 <l7> maybe they'll keep their promise of not breaking stuff in 10.6 though, who knows
Nov 04 01:51:00 <l7> activating mplayer through ssh seems to take away your ability to control it via terminal
Nov 04 01:52:09 <l7> why is that when i do 'ssh user@192.168.1.3 mplayer $url' to play music, that i cannot control it from the terminal?
Nov 04 01:52:26 <l7> when i shell in normally and activate mplayer it works fine
Nov 04 02:07:48 <ryoohki> how can i verify video is working in skype on the new n810?
Nov 04 02:12:09 <GeneralAntilles> ryoohki, you don't.
Nov 04 02:12:15 <GeneralAntilles> Skype doesn't support video.
Nov 04 02:27:51 <zakkm> How much battery life should the Nokia N800 have, brand new.
Nov 04 02:27:57 <zakkm> ?*
Nov 04 02:28:05 <GeneralAntilles> 4-6 hours active
Nov 04 02:28:16 <GeneralAntilles> around 6-14 days completely idle
Nov 04 02:28:21 <zakkm> oh okay, i bought it used.. and fully charged it says 7 hours in use,  10 days idle
Nov 04 02:28:26 <GeneralAntilles> 2-4 days idle on wifi.
Nov 04 02:28:35 <zakkm> is that right?
Nov 04 02:28:38 <zakkm> should i get a new battery?
Nov 04 02:28:46 <GeneralAntilles> Those estimates are based on charge percentage.
Nov 04 02:28:51 <zakkm> yeah
Nov 04 02:28:53 <zakkm> should it say more ?
Nov 04 02:28:56 <GeneralAntilles> No
Nov 04 02:29:03 <zakkm> so i have a good battery?
Nov 04 02:29:07 <GeneralAntilles> Well
Nov 04 02:29:13 <GeneralAntilles> It wont say less for a broken battery
Nov 04 02:29:18 <zakkm> oh
Nov 04 02:29:22 <zakkm> cuase the time really goes fast
Nov 04 02:29:23 <zakkm> -.-
Nov 04 02:29:27 <GeneralAntilles> So, my point was that those numbers are meaningless.
Nov 04 02:29:31 <zakkm> it was like 7 hours, next thing it said under a hour.. in like 1-2 hours
Nov 04 02:29:43 <GeneralAntilles> How old is the tablet?
Nov 04 02:29:48 <zakkm> Dont know, bought it used
Nov 04 02:29:51 <zakkm> never asked how old it is
Nov 04 02:30:00 <zakkm> I bought it half a week ago ?
Nov 04 02:32:05 <zakkm> its not like omg its so bad
Nov 04 02:32:15 <zakkm> but i remember my 770 lasting a lot longer, and i feel like this should last long too
Nov 04 02:33:02 <GeneralAntilles> battery could be shot
Nov 04 02:33:09 <GeneralAntilles> They're not the longest lasting things ever.
Nov 04 02:39:16 <zakkm> k, thanks
Nov 04 02:39:23 <zakkm> I'll see how much a new one is
Nov 04 02:47:09 <smackpotato> does the 770 recieve bluetooth audio
Nov 04 02:47:44 <GeneralAntilles> Receive?
Nov 04 02:47:46 <GeneralAntilles> From?
Nov 04 02:48:28 <smackpotato> ya from one of the bluetooth transmiter you can plug into your stereo
Nov 04 02:48:43 <GeneralAntilles> A2DP? No.
Nov 04 02:49:05 <smackpotato> bummer what is the problem
Nov 04 02:49:18 <GeneralAntilles> Um?
Nov 04 02:49:39 <smackpotato> sorry i didnt see the nick
Nov 04 02:49:53 <GeneralAntilles> You want to connect the audio out of your stereo to a Bluetooth transmitter and send it to a 770?
Nov 04 02:49:58 <GeneralAntilles> Why in the world?
Nov 04 02:50:17 <smackpotato> so i can listen to the fm
Nov 04 02:50:37 <GeneralAntilles> Just tune into the internet stream?
Nov 04 02:50:42 <GeneralAntilles> Most stations have one these days.
Nov 04 02:51:06 <smackpotato> ya i know but i live in a remote canadian village
Nov 04 02:51:07 <GeneralAntilles> Or cut out the 770 and just use a pair of wireless headphones directly.
Nov 04 02:51:21 <GeneralAntilles> Or buy an N800
Nov 04 02:51:32 <smackpotato> i have a 810
Nov 04 02:52:24 <smackpotato> somone was mentioning using the old 770 as a internet radio
Nov 04 02:52:37 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, to plug into your stereo.
Nov 04 02:52:42 <smackpotato> ya
Nov 04 02:53:08 <smackpotato> ok take 2
Nov 04 02:53:34 <smackpotato> the bluetooth will come from cheep,fm radio
Nov 04 02:54:02 <smackpotato> so i can control the volume from bed
Nov 04 02:55:32 <smackpotato> fm radio via bluetooth via 700 via stereo va sounwaves
Nov 04 02:56:35 <smackpotato> am i any clearer than mud
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 04 02:59:57 2008