**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 12 02:59:58 2008 Nov 12 03:00:05 well if it was Sharp, the site would go down for 3 days, then we'd find out after 3 days they decided to close it without telling anyone and people would have to petition for months for the content :) Nov 12 03:00:18 Ha Nov 12 03:00:40 this is just Nokia stepping on their own feet *trying to help us* Nov 12 03:00:47 It's too bad Sharp didn't actually want a Linux tablet. Nov 12 03:01:04 Sharp was far to out of touch with the opensource world Nov 12 03:01:08 Well, s/Nokia/maemo.org/ Nov 12 03:02:10 Right, but Nokia is paying some of the people associated with maemo.org, whereas sharp couldn't be bothered to nominate anyone inside the company as a community representative Nov 12 03:10:57 * johnx wonders about the current draw of a beagleboard vs the current draw of a zaurus mainboard Nov 12 03:11:51 2w at absolute full blast Nov 12 03:12:06 Practically nothing at idle Nov 12 03:12:26 I think that might be more at full blast than the pxa270+supporting chips :/ Nov 12 03:12:27 The OMAP3 barely gets warm to the touch when doing nothing. Nov 12 03:13:00 1.8W may be a more accurate figure Nov 12 03:13:16 That includes DSP, and PowerVR, etc. Nov 12 03:14:04 every so often I have delusions of hardware hacking :/ Nov 12 03:14:20 Ha Nov 12 03:14:26 Dooo it? Nov 12 03:14:32 s/?/!/ Nov 12 03:14:32 GAN800 meant: Dooo it! Nov 12 03:14:45 need to work on my soldering skills first Nov 12 03:19:47 Does anyone have any idea when this Freemantle stuff and the next internet tablet is going to be released? Nov 12 03:19:58 I'm dying over here trying to get an idea... Nov 12 03:20:33 Like, how much of the core and other work is completed for Freemantle? Nov 12 03:20:38 Fremantle will be in the q2-q3 2009 range Nov 12 03:21:04 The first alpha of the sdk is coming out next month, so not a whole lot. Nov 12 03:21:05 GAN800: Oh, that's right at about my breaking point. Not sure if I should run go by an N810 or not. Nov 12 03:21:16 I would Nov 12 03:21:17 tough call Nov 12 03:21:23 what do you plan to do with it? Nov 12 03:21:26 Especially for under $300 Nov 12 03:21:55 Browse the web, take handwritten notes, I'll try it as an ebook reader, but I'm not sure how well it'll function for that. Nov 12 03:22:00 All kinds of little stuff. Nov 12 03:22:20 I tought about buying one about 2 weeks ago, and like every other day I think of something else I could use it for. Nov 12 03:22:23 it's a great ebook reader, pretty decent web browser, and you'll probably like it for notes Nov 12 03:22:33 One of the best ebook readers around if you use non-DRM-encumbered stuff Nov 12 03:22:44 decent web browser? I thought that was the whole purposee of it? Nov 12 03:22:56 It's a Linux palmtop Nov 12 03:23:00 GAN800: Yeah, don't get me started about Amazon not letting anyone license AZW. Nov 12 03:23:17 by decent I mean better than any other handheld device, but it's still not as fast as a desktop at browsing Nov 12 03:23:27 google maps for example is distinctly not that fun Nov 12 03:23:52 That's actually one reason I was thinking of waiting for the next one. N810 only has a 4" screen. People say they love browsing the web on it, but then they compare it to browsing the web on an iPhone... Nov 12 03:24:12 pfft Nov 12 03:24:17 I'm kind of hoping the next one has a bigger screen. Nov 12 03:24:23 iPhone is hype Nov 12 03:24:23 probably not Nov 12 03:24:31 and has a way smaller screen Nov 12 03:24:31 GAN800: They compare it favorably to browsing on the iPhone. Nov 12 03:24:39 GAN800: very favorably Nov 12 03:24:57 It's unlikely screen size will go up Nov 12 03:25:05 it is funny how badly the iphone does with such an optimized webkit browser Nov 12 03:25:09 I'm just saying, if your looking for an optimal browsing experience, the iPhone isn't the first thing I think of comparing it to. Nov 12 03:25:16 pocketable is the absolute key for these devices Nov 12 03:25:23 I think this is about the biggest screen size you can expect while keeping it reasonably pocketable Nov 12 03:25:28 GAN800: You can't pocket a 5" screen? Nov 12 03:25:36 No, not really Nov 12 03:25:51 GAN800: You think browsing on a 4" screen? 4" is big enough? Nov 12 03:25:58 Maybe just a 5" screen, but if you add a bezel, buttons, etc. Nov 12 03:26:03 I love it Nov 12 03:26:14 800x480 is really nice Nov 12 03:26:25 How much horizontal scrolling do you have to do when you browse the web? Nov 12 03:26:35 really not that much Nov 12 03:26:35 For most sites, none. Nov 12 03:26:36 side-to-side, horizontal - not up and down Nov 12 03:26:44 hmmmmmm Nov 12 03:26:53 A few places force 1024 Nov 12 03:27:06 How does browsing nyt.com go over? Nov 12 03:27:06 usually I'll zoom in one or two steps and still have the content edge to edge Nov 12 03:27:10 But it's usually sidebars and such Nov 12 03:27:37 http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/n800.html Nov 12 03:29:19 also awesome on the go: full content RSS feeds Nov 12 03:29:50 They've got that one screenshot of the BBC in a browser, it looks pretty good. Nov 12 03:30:04 GAN800: You would honestly say you love browsing the web on an n810? Nov 12 03:30:44 And, you're not just being a biased computer geek who loves your Maemo? Nov 12 03:31:05 N800, actually Nov 12 03:31:19 But, the same is true? Nov 12 03:31:38 Surely it's not perfect, but it's awesome having the web in your pocket everywhere you go. Nov 12 03:31:40 (<- not GAN800, but can't help responding) the only two sticking points for browsing are sites with heavy scripts and sites that depend on flash Nov 12 03:32:15 johnx: I thought the OS2008 thing had performance improvements for Flash? Nov 12 03:32:34 performance improvements are the same as perfect flash performance Nov 12 03:32:36 How is watching other video on it, like MPG's? Nov 12 03:32:49 just fine for smaller sized videos Nov 12 03:32:52 johnx: You mean "are NOT the same"? Nov 12 03:32:55 say up to about 600x300 Nov 12 03:32:57 it does, but Flash brings my dual 2.5GHz G5 to its knees these days Nov 12 03:33:09 GAN800: YOu must be running Linux. Nov 12 03:33:10 yes, meant "are not" oops :) Nov 12 03:33:12 400MHz isn't a lot to work with in comparison. Nov 12 03:33:35 OS X, actually. Nov 12 03:33:38 levander, let me guess, you have a windows desktop? :) Nov 12 03:33:40 GAN800: The last Flash release, Adobe just did a bunch of performance enhancements for Mac and Linux. You should upgrade. Nov 12 03:33:50 I have, it still sucks Nov 12 03:33:52 johnx: No, Linux. But, Flash pegs my desktop too. Nov 12 03:34:04 GAN800: Ah, I haven't upgraded yet. Nov 12 03:34:16 Stalls the whole browser for 20 seconds loadin some Flash applets. Nov 12 03:34:25 yeah, I updated to flash10 as well. It seems a little more crashy, has some sound problems. maybe it's faster? i dunno Nov 12 03:34:29 Too bad it still sucks. The performance improvements for Mac was supposed to be better than they were for Linux... Nov 12 03:34:57 adobe just wants flash to be good enough that people aren't interested in making alternative implementations Nov 12 03:35:18 So, if I wait the the n820, I'm probably going to be waiting like a year? YOu say Q2-Q3 for Maemo 5.0, but software is always, always late. And then, there will probably be some time before they start shipping new devices on it. Nov 12 03:35:21 ... Nov 12 03:35:42 nokia usually coordinates software launches to go with hardware launches Nov 12 03:35:42 New device comes with Fremantle. Nov 12 03:36:10 the big thing to keep in mind is that there is no firm word on whether fremantle will run on current devices Nov 12 03:36:13 johnx: Yeah, and they want to make sure they have a hold over being cross-platform for commercial competition too. Microsoft's Silverlight isn't going to make it supporting only Windows these days with Flash around. Nov 12 03:37:08 also, don't expect to see flash10 on the current N8x0 devices Nov 12 03:37:13 Oh man, the n820 is going to be a big release. A whole new processor, new version of the OS... It's not going to be like an n810 vs. n800 release. Nov 12 03:37:27 that's why people are calling it "N900" Nov 12 03:37:58 Bigger transition than 770->N800, really. Nov 12 03:38:06 eh, debateable Nov 12 03:38:11 johnx: So, when I google, google for N900? Maybe that's why I had trouble finding info. Eventually I figured out to look on Wikipedia at Maemo, and saw future plans in there. Nov 12 03:38:22 google for "maemo 5" or fremantle Nov 12 03:38:42 johnx: freemantle is prolly best then, googling on numbers rarely works well Nov 12 03:38:59 Are both of you guys maemo hackers? Or, just big time users? Nov 12 03:39:03 hence the quotes so google treats it like a phrase Nov 12 03:39:16 heh...I'm some kind of hacker Nov 12 03:39:27 some kind? is that good or bad? Nov 12 03:39:45 johnx, kidding, right? Nov 12 03:39:47 good in the "not a cracker sense," bad in the "not very skilled" sense :) Nov 12 03:40:01 johnx: Any interesting hacks you got working? Nov 12 03:40:10 I mean, 3d, working video playback, a real camera, 3g Nov 12 03:40:35 GAN800: I thought video playback was working fine on the n810 for smaller videos? Nov 12 03:40:42 working on "maemo reconstructed:" http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed Nov 12 03:40:47 * GAN800 is the Maemo Community Council chair. ;) Nov 12 03:40:53 For smaller Nov 12 03:41:05 But OMAP3 can do 720p without issue. Nov 12 03:41:07 and did a kind of proof-of-concept debian tarball for the n8x0's Nov 12 03:41:19 What are the responsibilities of the Maemo Community Council chair? What are the powers? Nov 12 03:41:54 No real power, mostly community coordination and communication with Nokia Nov 12 03:41:56 powers? laser vision and super-cold breath. plus super strength Nov 12 03:42:03 Wow, 720p is good. That's what was the best DVD resolution for a long time, before Blu-Ray I think. Nov 12 03:42:03 Facilitators and doers Nov 12 03:42:21 720p is HD Nov 12 03:42:27 GAN800: Have you explained to them what a pickle I'm in waiting for the N900? Nov 12 03:42:29 DVDs are 480p Nov 12 03:42:48 Hardware plans are outside our scope. Nov 12 03:43:06 I'm thinking I'm going to try waiting the year for the n900. Maybe I can hold back the urge. Nov 12 03:43:15 But, if the n900 is ugly I am going to be so ticked. Nov 12 03:43:20 ahaha Nov 12 03:43:20 I hate ugly electronics. Nov 12 03:43:33 out of curiosity, do you think the N800 is ugly? Nov 12 03:43:36 johnx: Have you noticed how many electronic devices are ugly. Nov 12 03:43:51 johnx: Let me go look at it again. I've been looking at the n810. Nov 12 03:44:05 I think thinkpads look awesome, so I might not have the most conventional taste :) Nov 12 03:45:08 Ha Nov 12 03:45:23 It's kind of hard to say with the N800. I've never seen it in person, and a lot of times pictures don't do it justice. But, I really, really hate that silver color on electronics. And, the whole face of the n800 is silver... Nov 12 03:45:33 johnx: Let me go look at the thinkpads Nov 12 03:45:49 if you saw a thinkpad in the last 10 years you know what they all look like :) Nov 12 03:46:30 I also like the aesthetics of 80's sports cars from Japan Nov 12 03:46:33 Nah, like 10 years ago they were really boxy. No curves at all. I just pulled up some pics. I think those things look great. Nov 12 03:46:52 johnx: That's the thing, I like a "business casual" look for electronics. Nov 12 03:47:00 I hate it when they try to make them "eye catchers". Nov 12 03:47:19 I can agree there, but for me ergonomics is king Nov 12 03:47:24 I also hate the white that Apple uses. Not wanting that white has probably saved me a few thousand in Apple hardware. Nov 12 03:48:08 I like Apple's look too. It's the stuff in between, that's trying to look sleek and hip but somehow just doesn't Nov 12 03:48:27 johnx: Yeah. Like I used to love my original RAZR. Then I got a RAZR V3xx so I could listen to music. They just shoved the music functionality into the old interface and it was too much. They needed to redesign it. I like my V3xx okay, but am looking forward to upgrading. Nov 12 03:49:24 johnx: YOu like the white? I even have trouble with the newer silver and black laptops. Although, I haven't seen them in person yet. It's just when that silver color started getting popular in electronics, i hated it. Hated it. Then they started making it a darker silver and it wasn't so bad. Nov 12 03:50:18 usually color doesn't bother me so much Nov 12 03:50:52 OH well. Thanks for giving me an idea when the n900 is going to come out. I think I'm going to try to wait. But, who knows, the torture may be too much and I may go get an n810, we'll see... Nov 12 03:51:34 well if you're going to get an n810, do it soon, otherwise you might as well wait Nov 12 03:52:09 though actually, you could wait for december and the fremantle alpha SDK, then come back here and ask us if we think fremantle will come to the n8x0 Nov 12 03:56:24 johnx: Yeah, I'm sure I'll be checking in. Nov 12 03:57:00 On more thing. If they're going to have HSDPA on the n900, why wouldn't they just go ahead and make it a cell phone? It's not like they don't already have just about all the other hardware already on the device? Nov 12 03:57:23 I'm still looking at the Thinkpads, those things do look nice. Nov 12 03:57:24 regulations, user expectations, not canibalizing their other lineup Nov 12 03:57:36 ah, yeah Nov 12 03:57:52 I guess in my mind, I don't really see it as a phone anyway. So, I'm not that bothered. Nov 12 03:58:11 ...and other stuff that their marketing department thinks about that we have no clue about :) Nov 12 03:58:26 yeah, but we don't represent their average customer Nov 12 03:58:54 I think the "not canibalizing their phone lineup" might be one of the strongest motivations Nov 12 03:58:58 johnx: Yeah, I hate that. You're looking at a device, and you're think "why the hell did they do that?". Then you start thinking what marketing must be thinking.. And, it's just a huge mind fuck. Nov 12 03:59:33 johnx: If it's so important to keep it in their pocket, I wonder why they don't want it a phone... Nov 12 03:59:52 because they sell the same phone hardware at a higher price :) Nov 12 04:00:03 woo Nov 12 04:00:04 n96 vs n810 prices :) Nov 12 04:00:08 hey Navi :D Nov 12 04:00:09 And, why do they think of it as the n800 canibalizing the sales of other products? Why not think of it as the other products limiting sales of the n8x0? Nov 12 04:00:38 johnx: Ahhhh, okay. At least there's a good end of the deal for us then. We're getting similar hardware cheaper. Nov 12 04:00:39 hax the N900 and add phone dialings Nov 12 04:00:52 their phone lineup is established and commands a premium price. They want people to buy an n8x0 in addition to their $900 phone Nov 12 04:00:52 We're getting better hardware, cheaper. Nov 12 04:00:56 Does J2ME run on Maemo? Nov 12 04:01:09 The phones will still be at OMAP2 running at US$600 Nov 12 04:01:21 People seriously spend $900 on a phone? Nov 12 04:01:22 J2ME? poorly, but yes to some degree Nov 12 04:01:25 I just think though, if it's not positioned as a phone, why is it so important people can put it in there pocket so easy? Nov 12 04:01:54 To be able to pocket it :P Nov 12 04:02:00 levander: Becaues if they can't, it's just a laptop. Nov 12 04:02:02 I don't want to carry around a separate thing Nov 12 04:02:09 johnx: I'm writing a Blackberry app. Other than a web page, you pretty much have to write Blackberry apps with J2ME. Nov 12 04:02:26 A very slow, very limited laptop. Nov 12 04:02:41 that app will run worse on the J2ME on the n8x0 than it does on the slowest phone you can think of Nov 12 04:03:05 5" is really too big for a pocket? Do you guys ever have trouble getting 4" in? Nov 12 04:03:17 J2ME is accomplished by running a J2ME emulator on an unoptmized J2SE stack right now Nov 12 04:03:26 johnx: It's not a big deal J2ME doesn't work. I was just curious. Nov 12 04:03:49 johnx: That sux. That's the worse architecture for a platform I've heard of in a long, long time. Nov 12 04:04:04 Sounds worse than when java first come out and what a pig it was. Nov 12 04:04:13 well it's not official or anything Nov 12 04:04:25 it's just some guy wanted J2SE so he got it running Nov 12 04:04:34 Okay, yeah, it's just some guys playing, it's an experiment? Nov 12 04:04:38 then some other guy ran a J2ME emu on it Nov 12 04:04:46 exactly Nov 12 04:05:04 They probably don't even use it to run apps themselves! ;) Nov 12 04:05:11 of course not :) Nov 12 04:05:30 heck I got debian running on the n8x0 running in February or so and I almost never use it Nov 12 04:06:15 so I wonder if the omap3 tablet will be out before any omap3-based Nokia phones... Nov 12 04:06:48 I can get 4" to barely fit sometimes Nov 12 04:06:57 but 5" isn't going to work all the times Nov 12 04:07:03 you should wear bigger pants Nov 12 04:07:04 s/es/s/ Nov 12 04:07:05 Navi meant: but 5" isn't going to work all the tims Nov 12 04:07:18 johnx: can't find pants for my build :P Nov 12 04:07:50 I know that feeling Nov 12 04:08:25 I don't think I'd want to use it for browsing mobilly. I'd use it like a lot of people do a laptop. On my lap in a chair instead of reading. I just personally hate laptops and especially having one on my lap. They never balance quite right there. I guess that's why I want a bigger screen for me, and don't really care about pockets. Nov 12 04:09:01 maybe look at an MID then? Nov 12 04:09:19 With the whole HSDPA thing though, I guess they want people to start using it like people originally starting going gaga over Blackberries for. They want people reading email mobilly and stuff like that. But, I'll probably never do that. Nov 12 04:09:25 johnx: What's an MID? Nov 12 04:09:51 mobile internet device, slightly bigger than a tablet, x86 processor, kinda weak battery life, higher price tag Nov 12 04:10:06 but the other factor is weight. any piece of electronics much heavier than the tablets are now is gonna be a pain to hold one handed Nov 12 04:10:29 johnx: Like the OQO O1+. I looked at that thing. $2K. Out of my league. A desktop these days only costs $600, monitor included. Nov 12 04:11:01 johnx: It seems like I could hold 2 or 3 lbs easily in one hand. Nov 12 04:11:24 johnx: What's an MID you like? I want to look these up. Nov 12 04:11:41 I don't like any of 'em. :) but here's one: http://www.umpcfever.com/news/?postid=828 Nov 12 04:13:00 Yeah,man. I like that thing. Why don't you like it? Nov 12 04:13:09 MID's are exactly what I was looking for. Nov 12 04:13:23 higher price, weak battery life Nov 12 04:13:29 anyways, they're just hitting the market now Nov 12 04:13:39 I got my n800 back in early 2007 Nov 12 04:14:05 weak battery life sucks Nov 12 04:14:32 googline "gigabyte md528" returns 4 results, 2 of them are in japanese... Nov 12 04:14:34 yes, and having my n800 "always on" is awesome Nov 12 04:14:43 get rid of the "d" in there :) Nov 12 04:15:06 oh yeah, i did mess that up Nov 12 04:15:58 Only place selling one on Froogle is a store called "Direct from Japan". Not a good sign. Nov 12 04:16:16 like I said, just hitting the market now Nov 12 04:16:23 the aigo seems to have better availability Nov 12 04:17:35 The screen is 4.8", but the resolution is 800x480, just like the n8x0. Nov 12 04:19:23 It has a SIM card slot. Nov 12 04:20:52 I'm watching this. It's the same damn thing as a n8x0, just a little bigger. Nov 12 04:21:27 don't discount the software Nov 12 04:22:00 :P Nov 12 04:22:01 Maemo is so much better? Nov 12 04:22:13 Serious question. Nov 12 04:22:17 not sarcasm Nov 12 04:22:43 what does the Gigabyte run? WinMo? Nov 12 04:22:54 Navi, some x86 linux Nov 12 04:23:00 oh Nov 12 04:23:08 ubuntu I think, with the "ubuntu mobile" interface Nov 12 04:23:16 Oh :/ Nov 12 04:23:33 Yeah, Windows Mobile would be out of the question. I'm so glad I finally got off that OS. Nov 12 04:23:47 levander, well I haven't *used* the software setup on the m528, but you shouldn't assume it will be the same experience Nov 12 04:24:05 the n8x0 is rather well integrated and easy to add to for the most part Nov 12 04:24:17 If it's just x86 Ubuntu, you get the desktop apps Nov 12 04:24:34 johnx: Yeah, when you said that. Nokia's on it's 4th generation. This Aigo thing is generation 1. No doubt Nokia's got some quirks worked out these guys don't. Nov 12 04:24:46 It says something about Midinux. Nov 12 04:24:56 it seems like lots of companies that ship linux with a custom shell don't really have a way to deal with you installing other stuff or upgrading Nov 12 04:25:11 Other than the default apps :P Nov 12 04:25:15 they don't understand what they're getting into by forking their own linux distro Nov 12 04:25:37 Yeah, the advantage of generation 4 for Nokia... Nov 12 04:25:39 and having given it a try, I really have almost zero interest in using random desktop apps on a 4.8" touch screen Nov 12 04:26:00 heh...well some companies don't learn after that much time :) Nov 12 04:26:12 nokia shows signs of being somewhat clueful Nov 12 04:27:46 Navi, I'm really not sure how far from mainstream ubuntu those things are. I think I read about people actually needing to hack them to get root (?!) Nov 12 04:28:12 did anyone try deblet on N810 WiMAX? Nov 12 04:28:16 lol Nov 12 04:28:58 LiraNuna, I haven't heard from anyone who has. but I don't think it would be any different than a normal n810 Nov 12 04:31:20 In that review, the guy says 2 hours operating time on the battery. Then he says he didn't count it that good. Nov 12 04:31:41 wow...only 2 hours on that beefy battery? Nov 12 04:31:43 ouch Nov 12 04:32:22 It says 1200 AUD. I think that's Australian dollars. No idea how to conver that to USD. Nov 12 04:32:29 xe.com Nov 12 04:33:56 It would be cool to have a currency converter on my desktop that hooks up to the web behind the scenes. Seems I've been doing currency conversion occasionally lately. Nov 12 04:35:01 It converts to $790 USD. Nov 12 04:35:16 for the aigo? Nov 12 04:35:53 Yeah. Nov 12 04:36:04 It says $750 here in what looks like a better site: http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/06/gigabyte-m528-mid-update-official-pricing-and-availability-info Nov 12 04:36:07 sells for $700 at direct from japan Nov 12 04:36:15 free shipping :) Nov 12 04:36:43 Yeah, maybe "Direct from Japan" ain't so bad after all. I thought that would be a ceiling price. Nov 12 04:37:10 should become a little more available in the coming weeks Nov 12 04:37:37 Here's there battery estimate: "2.5 working wifi/3G hours on the 10wh battery" Nov 12 04:37:40 It's just an estimate. Nov 12 04:38:07 They also estimate August will be the availability date for USA. I guess they blew that one. Nov 12 04:38:10 and we all know how much to trust battery life "estimates" :) Nov 12 04:38:53 since we're seeing them on the market now I think "sometime before christmas" is relatively likely Nov 12 04:39:55 It would be cool to have a currency converter on my desktop that hooks up to the web behind the scenes. Seems I've been doing currency conversion occasionally lately. Nov 12 04:40:00 my irc bot does the same Nov 12 04:40:10 !g 100 usd in aud Nov 12 04:40:10 100 U.S. dollars = 149.342891 Australian dollars Nov 12 04:40:38 I bet your IRC bot wishes it had an IRC converter on its desktop so it didn't have to keep looking those prices up for you :D Nov 12 04:40:52 it uses google actually Nov 12 04:41:03 '!g' is for !g[oogle] Nov 12 04:47:45 Ah, moblin that runs on the Gigabyte M528 is Ubuntu Mobile. Nov 12 04:49:35 I saw some thing though. I think Ubuntu is targeting the n8x0 as their test platform. So, if moblin gets better than Maemo, moblin will run on n8x0 anyway. Nov 12 04:49:59 hmm? where did you see that? Nov 12 04:50:29 also, moblin on 128MB of RAM wouldn't be much fun I think Nov 12 04:50:38 johnx: Don't remember. Think it was on Ubuntu's web site. If they're developing a Linux mobile OS, what other device would they target right now? Nov 12 04:50:40 uhm I thought Ubuntu Mobile was x86 only Nov 12 04:50:52 I may be wrong, who knows. Nov 12 04:51:06 Samsung Q1 seems to be their big test target Nov 12 04:51:07 What device would they use for development though if not n8x0? Nov 12 04:51:14 oh, okay Nov 12 04:51:23 Confusing Mojo perhaps? Nov 12 04:51:27 that's what they release all their images for Nov 12 04:51:54 Wow, Samsung Q1, ~$900 Nov 12 04:53:01 It seems like it's gone up because there are so few around, it was release in May '07 for $800 Nov 12 04:53:35 Or, maybe Engadget just got that release story wrong. It was pre-release information. Nov 12 04:57:03 Okay, I'm done looking at this for the night. Thanks for the help guys. Nov 12 04:57:18 sure :) Nov 12 04:57:19 'night Nov 12 05:04:43 Alaska Nov 12 05:05:05 yes? Nov 12 05:06:37 g'mo(u)rning Nov 12 05:06:49 Er, wrong channel. ;) Nov 12 05:06:55 mornin' Nov 12 05:40:14 i really don't know if this is the right place to ask about Qt for s60 Nov 12 05:40:42 you can ask if you want, but you're right, it's not exactly the right place :) Nov 12 05:41:37 how to develop application using Qt for S60 Nov 12 05:42:00 i m familiar with qt-maemo Nov 12 05:46:14 hi again; can somebody check out my audio synth for n810 here: http://www.poojyum.com/boxar - a box guitar...boxes on the screen with notes assigned..you play with ur stylus Nov 12 05:46:22 comments welcome Nov 12 05:46:50 source code (segfaults once a while): http://www.poojyum.com/boxar.c Nov 12 05:48:42 jagernot, sure, I'll check it out. should I turn the volume down a little before I start it? :D Nov 12 05:49:23 maybe...but not too much ;) Nov 12 05:49:49 ranit, Have you googled for "develop qt s60" ? Nov 12 05:51:10 jagernot, this. is. awesome. :D Nov 12 05:51:34 thank you ;) Nov 12 05:52:02 is this gtk? or raw xlib? Nov 12 05:52:06 gtk Nov 12 05:52:37 each row of boxes is 1 octave..notes are assinged from a major pentatonic scale..so no matter what u do..it will sound musical ;) Nov 12 05:53:08 this beats the heck out of those rhythm games like guitar hero Nov 12 05:54:04 glad u thought that... Nov 12 05:54:26 yep got it http://www.martin.st/symbian/, johnx Nov 12 05:55:24 ranit, or this: http://pepper.troll.no/s60prereleases/ Nov 12 05:56:31 are you taking feature requests? :D Nov 12 05:56:54 yeah sure Nov 12 05:57:43 I'm not really musically inclined...but could you maybe have the notes fade at a different rate if one of the hardware buttons is held? Nov 12 05:57:57 kind of like the foot peddles on a piano? Nov 12 05:58:14 yep could do that Nov 12 05:58:18 are they called effect peddles or something? Nov 12 05:58:23 <- fails at music Nov 12 05:58:35 actually i was thinking of using pressure for that Nov 12 05:58:48 greater the pressure, greater the pluck Nov 12 05:58:52 greater volume Nov 12 05:58:56 then when the note is playing Nov 12 05:59:04 if u click on that button..it will decay quicker Nov 12 05:59:12 oh, well that's good too if you can get the pressure sensitivity to be reliable Nov 12 05:59:25 yeah touch and go (no pun) so far Nov 12 06:01:28 btw, this is based on din, my full blown free soft synth : http://code.google.com/p/din Nov 12 06:02:03 john: imo, there is nobody that doesnt know music ...theyve been introed to instruments with poor ui :D Nov 12 06:02:33 heh Nov 12 06:04:45 there are no wrong notes in the scale i present..so u can free yourself Nov 12 06:05:44 heh...I played clarinet for a while. quite an interesting user interface :D Nov 12 06:06:20 ahh nice way to think about musical instruments Nov 12 06:06:44 great advantage with non digital is multi touch ;) Nov 12 06:07:05 multi input devices Nov 12 06:07:05 yeah, but using 6 fingers to get one note? what a waste! :D Nov 12 06:07:13 yeah u r right Nov 12 06:07:24 multi touch , multi input is nice to have in digital Nov 12 06:07:28 i could do wonders with that Nov 12 06:07:53 assuming i get it going with X/gtk Nov 12 06:08:53 yeah, this could be a lot of fun :D Nov 12 06:42:15 * Stskeeps yawns Nov 12 07:05:18 i'm seriously going to write a book called "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Nokia Maemo source" Nov 12 07:05:30 Stskeeps, go for it Nov 12 07:05:35 beware of the leopard comparisons certainly come into my mind Nov 12 07:05:56 how about : Linux Development on the Maemo Platform Nov 12 07:06:05 Id even buy that Nov 12 07:06:16 is it just me or does latest os2008 suck? this taablet had never benn so unstable.. Nov 12 07:06:31 prez00: then downgrade :P Nov 12 07:06:31 prez00, define latest and what Nxxx ? Nov 12 07:06:40 "Treasure Map for Maemo Source Placements" Nov 12 07:06:57 the last flash image kept rebooting my N810 Nov 12 07:07:01 latest works fine Nov 12 07:08:18 n800, os2008 feature upgrade 4.2008.36-5 Nov 12 07:08:30 I can only talk for the N810 Nov 12 07:08:32 ;-p Nov 12 07:09:08 LinuxCode, how was that feature upgrade for u? Nov 12 07:09:26 let me double check the flash image code Nov 12 07:09:27 sec Nov 12 07:10:06 ok the one you were using is fine for me Nov 12 07:10:25 the last one, which was RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM Nov 12 07:10:30 kept rebooting it Nov 12 07:12:33 oh well... Nov 12 07:12:46 will wait 4 next upgrade... Nov 12 07:19:25 Stskeeps, I'm putting together a sane booting m-r and then I'll run dpkg --get-selections on it . does that seem reasonable? Nov 12 07:23:43 just have to track down the xorg omapfb deb... Nov 12 07:57:54 johnx: yep Nov 12 07:58:13 --get-selections is same as -l? :P Nov 12 07:58:52 not quite I think Nov 12 07:59:28 k Nov 12 07:59:39 i'm done with h-d but re-bootstrapping it to get maemo-launcher Nov 12 08:00:16 gak...some nokian is going to get walloped with a trout because of that, aren't they? Nov 12 08:00:32 i plan to launch a series of bug reports based on the jaiku log, yes Nov 12 08:00:44 anyways, from a --get-selections you can take the output file and do: cat selections | dpkg --set-selections && apt-get dselect-upgrade Nov 12 08:00:47 ah Nov 12 08:01:05 so kinda like a semi-meta package Nov 12 08:01:24 yeah, but I'm also writing down what I install so we can make a meta package manually if it doesn't work out :) Nov 12 08:01:30 hehe Nov 12 08:02:03 .. oh come on Nov 12 08:02:07 maemo-launcher-dev has nohildon too Nov 12 08:02:38 would you mind putting xserver-xorg-video-omapfb in the m-r repo? Nov 12 08:02:44 isn't it already? Nov 12 08:02:59 I don't think so Nov 12 08:03:17 sure, which one is the right one? Nov 12 08:03:20 (url) Nov 12 08:03:27 http://trac.tspre.org/m-r/incoming/ Nov 12 08:04:44 done, i guess tslib is there already Nov 12 08:04:56 input-tslib that is Nov 12 08:05:15 yeah, but it's the one I put up. which is fine. the -2 version claims to have some kind of HAL integration Nov 12 08:06:18 k Nov 12 08:07:50 wow...I wonder if I'm doing this differently than you did. Just adding hildon-desktop will add another 159MB to minbase (and this is after X) Nov 12 08:09:04 i haven't added hildon-desktop, so it's UM you're getting Nov 12 08:09:11 aaaah Nov 12 08:09:23 glad I didn't install it yet :) Nov 12 08:09:34 i don't expect UM to be containable in 250m flash ;) Nov 12 08:10:19 I guess mobile-basic-flash should have tipped me off, huh? :P Nov 12 08:10:28 yeah Nov 12 08:10:28 :P Nov 12 08:11:22 does the tablet support h.264? Nov 12 08:11:31 I'm just reading up on gmail's new video abilities Nov 12 08:12:02 it has a arm-optimized codec for it i think Nov 12 08:12:08 at a low resolution and bit rate, probably Nov 12 08:12:14 in gstreamer Nov 12 08:12:25 johnx: you saw pybattery? Nov 12 08:12:56 yeah, aside from the fact that it means having python in RAM all the time, it looks incredible Nov 12 08:13:14 well it will help as a demonstrator atleast Nov 12 08:13:57 "how much of a maemo UI can be replicated in open source" Nov 12 08:14:03 "how much can with closed bits" Nov 12 08:14:04 :P Nov 12 08:20:36 "how much of Maemo UI can be replicated in Python" :) Nov 12 08:21:05 well that itself isn't a bad idea really - showing how stupid some of the "differentiators" are Nov 12 08:21:15 that even a kid with gtk and maemo can build a replica without issue Nov 12 08:21:18 gtk and python Nov 12 08:22:25 because it's trivial to take a working python prototype and make it into C, let's say Nov 12 08:24:07 hi, is it normal that tablet locking doesn't work well? unlock itself time to time Nov 12 08:24:44 no, mine doesn't Nov 12 08:25:09 * Stskeeps had odd problems with tablet locking itself a little too hard, recently Nov 12 08:25:30 ok wonder what unlocks mine Nov 12 08:26:28 can bad software does it? Nov 12 08:26:58 noticed it after installed skype Nov 12 08:30:55 before it locked after 5min quite well and diddn't unlock, but maybe something just broke same time Nov 12 08:33:20 hahlobit: Do you have unlock-on-light-sensor installed? Nov 12 08:33:53 i check Nov 12 08:35:44 is it under that name? Nov 12 08:36:40 unlock-on-light-sensor named package? Nov 12 08:39:35 unlock searching gave only osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked answer :) Nov 12 09:18:20 hi Nov 12 09:52:11 morning all: my wip soft synth with blues scale for your attention: http://www.poojyum.com/boxar Nov 12 09:52:40 source code: http://www.poojyum.com/boxar.c Nov 12 09:52:48 comments, feedback will be nice :) Nov 12 09:53:09 runs on n810/maemo Nov 12 09:53:58 is it an executable? Nov 12 09:54:03 any screenshots? Nov 12 09:54:29 yes it is Nov 12 09:54:34 no screenshots yet Nov 12 09:55:00 scary. Nov 12 09:55:03 you can trust me! Nov 12 09:55:07 RST38h, it's clean :) Nov 12 09:55:07 see my website Nov 12 09:55:07 hi Nov 12 09:55:33 thx johnx. he tried it so.. Nov 12 09:55:45 johnx: I have no tablet here, it is at home =) Nov 12 09:56:22 I'll put up a screenie in a sec Nov 12 09:57:34 thanks =) Nov 12 09:57:57 rst you dont have a tablet..and you are scared Nov 12 09:58:00 this is funny :) Nov 12 09:58:26 What if it hijacks my browser? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!... Nov 12 09:58:30 * RST38h runs for the hills Nov 12 09:58:43 how far away are the hills? Nov 12 09:59:14 hills are always far from urban areas where rst is likely located Nov 12 09:59:21 johnx: This place is called Krylatsky Hills Business Center Nov 12 09:59:31 johnx: i.e. about 50 meters from the front gate Nov 12 09:59:40 lol Nov 12 10:00:34 actually you can download the source Nov 12 10:00:37 and compile Nov 12 10:01:25 gcc boxar.c `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0 hildon-1 esound` `pkg-config --libs gtk+-2.0 hildon-1 esound` -lpthread Nov 12 10:01:34 source available here: http://www.poojyum.com/boxar.c Nov 12 10:01:44 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/boxar.png Nov 12 10:01:51 Not only have we got sizable hills here, but there is even a spot for satanic rituals at the top! Nov 12 10:02:01 oooo, bonus Nov 12 10:02:30 Ah, color squares! I bet they light up when you touch them and play Nov 12 10:02:34 johnx thats the pentatonic version...the new 1 has got blues Nov 12 10:02:46 aaaah, cool Nov 12 10:02:47 will add menus next to switch scales Nov 12 10:02:59 how did u do screenshots? Nov 12 10:02:59 jagernot: Do add the app icon Nov 12 10:03:29 rst i will let u know when its a downloadable app. are u going to the hills yet? :) Nov 12 10:03:32 jagernot: CPU load applet will make screenshots Nov 12 10:03:47 jagernot: another hour, once the lunch starts =) Nov 12 10:04:21 qole and lcuk tried it.. Nov 12 10:04:26 and ofcourse johnx Nov 12 10:04:51 and when qole and lcuk tried it it was named 'h' :D Nov 12 10:05:00 bless those souls Nov 12 10:05:01 heh Nov 12 10:05:18 * RST38h wonders whether he would try an executable named h Nov 12 10:05:29 it was named h cos Nov 12 10:05:29 On the other hand, I call mine aaa, bbb, ccc, etc Nov 12 10:05:35 the compile / run cycle Nov 12 10:05:44 i couldnt type boxar all the time from the command line Nov 12 10:05:46 h was easy Nov 12 10:05:56 are you compiling on the tablet? Nov 12 10:06:16 no i use scratchbox Nov 12 10:06:16 on linux machine Nov 12 10:06:22 then plug the usb cable and transfer the exec to the internal card Nov 12 10:06:27 and then run the app on xterm Nov 12 10:06:30 is there a better way? Nov 12 10:06:36 it drives me nuts Nov 12 10:06:39 UP arrow will browse through commands history - no need to type Nov 12 10:06:43 Yea Nov 12 10:07:18 there's not really a better way if that's working for you Nov 12 10:07:20 where is up arrow? Nov 12 10:07:27 First of all, I suggest you use a Makefile. An example of a simple autoconf-free Makefile can be found at http://fms.komkon.org/EMUL8/ (download EMUlib and look at EMULib/Rules.Maemo) Nov 12 10:07:32 the directional pad :) Nov 12 10:07:58 nice got it Nov 12 10:08:13 At the end of your final target build instructions, add "scp boxar root@tablet.ip:/usr/bin" Nov 12 10:08:28 This will automatically copy your executable to the tablet when it gets built Nov 12 10:08:32 i dont know password for root :) Nov 12 10:08:47 Install SSH to the tablet - it will ask you to set root password Nov 12 10:08:52 So you will know it Nov 12 10:09:07 how do i find tablet ip? Nov 12 10:09:10 Ok, this covers building and transferring executables. Now, running them: Nov 12 10:09:27 jagernot: ask your router. Nov 12 10:09:41 i have netgear wireless router Nov 12 10:09:44 how do i ask it? Nov 12 10:09:44 To run a tablet, open an xterm on your host system and do ssh root@tablet.ip Nov 12 10:10:00 Your router has a web-based admin UI that shows IPs for all connected devices Nov 12 10:10:29 So, you ssh to the tablet and once your binary is placed into /usr/bin, you can run it from that xterm without typing anything on the tablet itself Nov 12 10:10:31 Clear? Nov 12 10:10:44 s/run a/run on the/ Nov 12 10:12:49 yeah its clear if only i could find the ip of the tablet Nov 12 10:13:04 cant i use a website which tells my ip? Nov 12 10:13:09 from the tablet Nov 12 10:13:33 jagernot: you have root? Nov 12 10:13:41 or better Nov 12 10:13:43 jagernot, you can, but why don't you just use your netgear admin UI> Nov 12 10:13:45 just open an xterm Nov 12 10:13:49 and type /sbin/ifconfig Nov 12 10:14:05 or indeed, ask your router Nov 12 10:14:19 aquatix <-- speaketh the truth Nov 12 10:14:28 dont know the password Nov 12 10:14:36 my broadband provider's router Nov 12 10:14:38 while you are in that admin ui, make sure your tablet always gets the same IP address Nov 12 10:15:20 BTW, whoever wanted a cheap QWERTY phone, it has arrived: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/8461_Nokia_E63-QWERTY_and_Eseries_g.php Nov 12 10:16:32 jagernot: soooo, what about typing /sbin/ifconfig ? ;) Nov 12 10:17:08 oh yeah thanks aquatix Nov 12 10:17:47 morning, all Nov 12 10:17:53 RST38h: hm, even has 3.5mm jackplug Nov 12 10:18:09 aquatix: and the keyboard is frankly better than in E71 Nov 12 10:18:19 yeah 192.168.1.3 Nov 12 10:18:26 thats my tablet ip nice Nov 12 10:18:27 no GPS, plastic, fatter casing though Nov 12 10:18:43 hm Nov 12 10:18:51 * aquatix still likes the E71 Nov 12 10:19:06 they can stick the camera (autofocus or not) where the light does not shine Nov 12 10:19:17 i think i'll stick with my SE m600i for another 6 months and look around then Nov 12 10:19:22 hi jaffa Nov 12 10:19:22 RST38h: :) Nov 12 10:19:34 RST38h: doesn't it have LED? ;) Nov 12 10:19:59 aquatix: same for the LED. Nov 12 10:20:18 will give an eery effect though Nov 12 10:20:45 how do i start the openssh server on my tablet? Nov 12 10:20:55 jagernot: you install it from extras Nov 12 10:21:08 and don't worry about it any more - it will start automatically Nov 12 10:21:11 i have installed it Nov 12 10:21:13 hm, the keyboard changes look nice Nov 12 10:21:41 hmm ok Nov 12 10:21:50 RST38h: it's a lot fatter though :/ Nov 12 10:22:42 yea, and creakier too, no doubt Nov 12 10:23:29 * aquatix sticks with wanting an E71 Nov 12 10:23:32 has gps too Nov 12 10:23:39 RST:hmm its taking ages to get into shell on my tablet Nov 12 10:23:40 and it's nicely thin Nov 12 10:24:23 * RST38h wants e72 Nov 12 10:24:37 jager: ? Nov 12 10:25:22 RST: its taking a long time to connect to my tablet..ive now got the shell..but its very slow Nov 12 10:26:24 it probably means that your tablet is running something heavy Nov 12 10:26:40 run "top", see what it is and kill Nov 12 10:27:34 aquatix: http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/19/nokias-e72-slider-and-e75-candybar-with-qwerty-keyboards-leaked/ Nov 12 10:27:38 hmm just the usual is all i have Nov 12 10:27:52 RST38h: yeah, more info i can't find on the e72 Nov 12 10:28:10 it should not be very slow. if it is slow, you either have a connection problem or your tablet's CPU is overloaded Nov 12 10:29:04 aquatix: Not yet. Actually, I need a replacement to E70 and E75 looks like a better fit, but I am still hoping The Great Cthulhu will make Nokia produce a proper replacement Nov 12 10:29:19 RST38h: E72 is nice and all, but i wouldn't know wth the difference is with the E72 :) Nov 12 10:29:27 ghehe Nov 12 10:29:39 aquatix: probably the e63-derived keyboard Nov 12 10:29:41 RST, the video is gone Nov 12 10:30:05 inz: Oh, who cares, it was low quality anyway Nov 12 10:30:40 RST38h: hm, good point Nov 12 10:30:45 and hopefully vga :) Nov 12 10:30:57 aquatix: No way Nov 12 10:31:24 knowing nokia indeed... Nov 12 10:31:25 aquatix: 5800 is 800x360 though ;) Nov 12 10:31:25 anybody to try my soft synth ? :) Nov 12 10:31:43 RST38h: true Nov 12 10:31:47 RST38h: but no hw kb Nov 12 10:31:53 5800 is nice though Nov 12 10:31:55 slick GUI Nov 12 10:32:49 lunch! Nov 12 10:32:50 bbl Nov 12 10:32:56 RST38h: didn't find that sensor, does it exist? Nov 12 10:33:30 aquatix: with a screen like that you won;t need real kbd Nov 12 10:35:13 hahlobit: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/autolock/ Nov 12 10:35:21 Make sure it is NOT installed on your tablet Nov 12 10:46:02 hello lcuk Nov 12 10:50:18 is this the correct channel for ESbox questions? ;-) Nov 12 10:52:24 I don't really know much about esbox, but you can ask Nov 12 10:53:11 I have problems with ESbox not recognizing my installed SDK Nov 12 10:53:49 the SDK is installed to /opt/maemo, I also have created a symlink to /scratchbox in order to be on the safe side Nov 12 10:54:25 I've configured the scratchbox 1 paths, and still it's telling me it can't find any SDKs when creating a target Nov 12 11:02:16 ls Nov 12 11:02:19 hehe Nov 12 11:22:00 jagernot you call at the worst times Nov 12 11:22:05 balls! Nov 12 11:24:51 RST38h, johnx if jagernot comes back could you tell him to mail me plz :% Nov 12 11:24:54 ;$ Nov 12 11:25:02 hey y'all, quick problem. I'm changing my phone service and just got a new phone (verizon xv6900). I have it working with DUN & bluetooth with laptop but when i set it up with N810 I keep getting "Internet connection failed, try again?". I've tripple checked the settings, it is connected fine to phone, any suggestions? can i run connection from terminal/cmd line? can it be debugged (no syslog) :( Nov 12 11:25:47 lcuk, will do Nov 12 11:26:12 thanks :) Nov 12 11:28:03 11:33:29 RST38h | aquatix: with a screen like that you won;t need real kbd Nov 12 11:28:12 well, i like to be able to type fast on the thing Nov 12 11:28:18 for PIM stuff and such Nov 12 11:37:35 any strace specialists here? Nov 12 11:38:20 lardman: Did you see that new Nokia handsets are supposed to add a compass too? Nov 12 11:38:35 lardman: So my cool application idea should be possible then :D Nov 12 11:38:47 X-Fade: cool :) Nov 12 11:38:53 or is it a hw compass? Nov 12 11:39:11 A hw compass next to the gps chip. Nov 12 11:39:59 'integrated compass' Nov 12 11:40:02 http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/11/10/the-better-part-of-nokias-smartphone-roadmap-goes-on-display/ Nov 12 11:40:16 well there's still no way of telling the direction the handset is pointing Nov 12 11:40:26 you could hold it upside-down and walk forwards, etc Nov 12 11:40:46 accelerometor can be used for that. Nov 12 11:40:59 To know which side is up. Nov 12 11:41:02 true Nov 12 11:41:12 but might as well use a hw compass then Nov 12 11:42:33 Fun times ahead, if this is true :) Nov 12 11:43:19 "minimum 8GB ROM, microSD, pressure sensitive touch UI with tactile feedback and gestures, charging via USB, 5MP AF camera with dual LED flash, integrated compass and accelerometer, proximity sensor, FM transmitter" Fun fun fun.. Nov 12 11:43:52 n900 spec? ;) Nov 12 11:44:15 ROM? better be flash Nov 12 11:44:16 :P Nov 12 11:44:19 Nah, some rumoured handset. But that means that Nokia can pick from that parts bi ;) Nov 12 11:44:23 bin. Nov 12 11:44:35 anyway strace interpreters, some meat here for you: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2878 Nov 12 11:45:55 i.e. what's this doing? "A-GPS request interval error" Nov 12 11:46:05 s/i.e./e.g. Nov 12 11:46:16 * lardman must brush up on his Latin ;) Nov 12 11:46:17 Timeout perhaps? Nov 12 11:46:41 yeah, I wonder what fd=6 is Nov 12 11:46:51 whether it's a file or a network socket Nov 12 11:46:58 lardman: look at /proc/pid? Nov 12 11:47:01 Looks like dbus.. Nov 12 11:47:14 Stskeeps: not from my device Nov 12 11:47:18 ah Nov 12 11:47:21 lardman: consider maybe ltrace to get some more level stuff Nov 12 11:47:33 lardman: You see a part of /com/no there.. Nov 12 11:47:41 Stskeeps: yeah, I might just sit down and do that when I have a minute Nov 12 11:47:42 Which is probably /com/nokia/blabla Nov 12 11:47:55 X-Fade: ah, good idea Nov 12 11:52:45 Any further info on when the n900 will be out? Nov 12 11:52:52 Or the Fremantle SDK beta for that matter? Nov 12 11:53:12 fremantle sdk alpha comes in december afaik Nov 12 11:53:13 lardman: SDK: "This year" ;) Nov 12 11:53:29 X-Fade: :) Nov 12 11:53:46 Which isn't too long anymore. Nov 12 11:53:59 * LinuxCode is holding off buying a new mobile until the N900 comes out Nov 12 11:54:19 Im looking forward to a all-in-one device Nov 12 11:54:20 what about the new device? ;) I need something new to play with Nov 12 11:54:35 * lardman wonders if X-Fade will fall for the straight question :) Nov 12 11:55:04 lardman: You were at the same events as I was. Nov 12 11:55:26 yeah, I know Nov 12 11:55:31 X-Fade: you're employed by maemo.org or how is it? i get confused of who's nokia, contracted nokia companies, etc :) Nov 12 11:55:32 And all those people were Maemo Software. Nov 12 11:56:47 When it's ready Nov 12 11:57:00 oops Nov 12 11:57:01 suihkulokki: :) Nov 12 11:58:07 Stskeeps: I'm working for maemo.org. Funded by Nokia, but not employed by Nokia. Nov 12 11:58:13 alright, thought so Nov 12 11:58:44 And they won't tell me anything about future hardware, so I'm unbiased. Nov 12 11:58:56 and i have to say you do an amazing job at it as well Nov 12 11:59:49 lcuk: I try to.. Nov 12 11:59:51 suihkulokki: got a apt/deb question - one package depends on package X (>= some ver), and package Y replaces/conflicts/provides X, and Y version is >= some ver, yet it seems to us that the depend >= operator does not accept "Provides" as a package that it can compare on? Nov 12 11:59:52 whos up for a bacon butty? Nov 12 11:59:57 :p Nov 12 12:00:12 Stskeeps: provides don't have versions Nov 12 12:00:16 okay Nov 12 12:00:21 which kinda sucks Nov 12 12:00:29 (we're running into a problem with osso-gnomevfs doing this for libgnomevfs, which obviously breaks everything gnome..) Nov 12 12:00:54 back to meeting Nov 12 12:01:26 osso-gnomevfs should be completly replaceable with libgnomevfs Nov 12 12:02:02 the only advantage of osso-gnomevfs is it doesn't use orbit Nov 12 12:02:32 yeah - it probably is too, we're just going with trying to see how far we can get with maemo components Nov 12 12:02:32 And it's possible upstream libgnomevfs can nowadays be compiled with dbus too with just a configure flag switch Nov 12 12:02:55 i should look further into that problematique Nov 12 12:10:18 have any of the nokia devices ever had IR on them? Nov 12 12:10:24 ie did the 770 Nov 12 12:10:31 lcuk: no.. Nov 12 12:10:53 awww, so how can i get it changing my tv Nov 12 12:11:03 lcuk: irreco Nov 12 12:11:34 ive already got an ip based remote for my desktop computer, i mean for real normal ir tv Nov 12 12:12:12 !!! ill just hack about with the old pda - its got bt+ir Nov 12 12:12:37 My Agenda VR3 had CIR, so it was actually made for that ;) Nov 12 12:13:40 thanks x-fade :) Nov 12 12:32:09 Hello everybody ! Nov 12 12:32:22 someone here have a frequency scanner ? Nov 12 12:32:28 and an n8x0 ? Nov 12 12:32:46 * Khertan have a small idea in his small head Nov 12 12:36:23 err.. i have an USRP Nov 12 12:37:13 to explain why i ask that Nov 12 12:37:33 hi lcuk Nov 12 12:37:49 i m remembering my try to monitor my own screen with the old school method nammed tempest in the past Nov 12 12:37:49 hi khertan Nov 12 12:38:09 i ve got some succes ... black and white image ... Nov 12 12:38:20 with many errors in the display Nov 12 12:38:47 but i ask myself if we can use something near the n8x0 to monitor the lcd display Nov 12 12:38:51 and export it to vga Nov 12 12:39:14 yes i know a simplest method will be to use a darkbox and a cam :) Nov 12 12:39:19 but less fun to do Nov 12 12:39:55 so i got this question ... does a n8x0 emit many electro magnetic signal ... Nov 12 12:40:03 *g* Nov 12 12:40:10 i doubt due to the low power use in the lcd display Nov 12 12:40:16 hehe Nov 12 12:40:19 or the short len of cable Nov 12 12:40:20 wireless transmission Nov 12 12:40:20 :P Nov 12 12:40:48 if you mean vnc ... quality is poor too :) 10 to 15 fps :) Nov 12 12:40:59 and really slow down the n8x0 Nov 12 12:41:10 hm Nov 12 12:41:17 what you wan transmit? Nov 12 12:41:21 from the phone? Nov 12 12:41:23 or too? Nov 12 12:42:48 anyone knows where the music-player stores the internetradio items? so i can read them with a ssh access .... Nov 12 12:43:07 woglinde: with my 8x0 box ... Nov 12 12:43:12 hum ./... Nov 12 12:43:19 s/8x0/ internet provider Nov 12 12:43:50 and this is too slow due to the slowness of the n8x0 Nov 12 12:43:57 not the transmission Nov 12 12:44:04 sven-tek hm sorry no, maybee you can look into the source Nov 12 12:44:10 khertan hm??? Nov 12 12:44:25 khertan you you want see something on the n810 or from? Nov 12 12:44:38 the frequency emitted should be arround 14kHz to 17kHz Nov 12 12:44:49 see the n810 on my TV :) Nov 12 12:44:57 lol Nov 12 12:45:12 tv accept vga/hdmi/s-composite ... Nov 12 12:45:12 :) Nov 12 12:45:18 or any other monitor ... Nov 12 12:45:36 Stskeeps: are hildon-desktop packages in repo? Nov 12 12:45:45 :0 Nov 12 12:45:49 "cat .mediaplayer-engine/radiochannels.m3u" its that easy if you know where to look at Nov 12 12:46:15 Meiz_n810: yeah, but it will break your U-M attempt probably Nov 12 12:46:28 ouch it s forbidden in many countrie to use tempest method Nov 12 12:46:33 Noo, i will not use u-m anymore Nov 12 12:46:48 :) Nov 12 12:47:29 When "icy" is complete i'll mess with u-m again Nov 12 12:49:13 k Nov 12 12:49:47 * Meiz_n810 thinks he just lied.. :) Nov 12 12:51:16 hildon desktop's in? Nov 12 12:51:18 great! Nov 12 12:51:28 yeah, but i may need some support packages Nov 12 12:51:32 such as l10ns Nov 12 12:51:37 and themes Nov 12 12:51:38 tell you in a sec :) Nov 12 12:53:49 johnx: saw sui's comment above about our Provides: problem? Nov 12 12:54:06 yeah. I read the spec earlier Nov 12 12:54:10 k Nov 12 12:54:15 it is actually not provided? Nov 12 12:54:18 that's kinda lame, really Nov 12 12:54:57 apt wants hasty's hildon-desktop Nov 12 12:55:16 maybe I need to fix the way I pinned the repositories Nov 12 12:55:19 remove hasty repos temporarily? Nov 12 12:55:33 but there are deps I want pulled from it Nov 12 12:56:14 so noone with some electronical skills ? Nov 12 12:57:59 johnx: later version maybe? Nov 12 12:58:17 I think it might be because the depends aren't satisfied Nov 12 12:58:30 one sec Nov 12 12:58:31 mm Nov 12 12:58:58 I'll try it someplace where I can use aptitude (ie not the minbase image) :) Nov 12 12:59:45 * johnx starts qemu Nov 12 12:59:46 ok, now I see the reason people buy multicore CPUs Nov 12 13:00:21 http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/tempest/video/x74iq0_compromising-electromagnetic-emanat_tech Nov 12 13:00:26 :) Nov 12 13:00:37 The reason is they no longer sell anything else. Nov 12 13:00:52 well there's that too Nov 12 13:01:11 but qemu eats a whole core here...and I only have the one Nov 12 13:02:03 Also, even a single core of the Core or Core2 processors was so dramatically better than a Pentium 4, it wasn't even funny. Nov 12 13:02:30 well, athlon 64 here. It's good enough most of the time Nov 12 13:09:22 johnx, agreed Nov 12 13:09:36 only when my mainboard went I bought a quad Nov 12 13:09:55 then bought another athlon64 capable board and now use it as a file server Nov 12 13:10:25 bye Nov 12 13:10:47 well maemo-launcher wants hildon-initscripts Nov 12 13:11:50 johnx <--- heretic! using AMD! Nov 12 13:12:03 k Nov 12 13:13:20 johnx: guess some mangling is in order there Nov 12 13:14:56 yeah, maemo-launcher not being installable is hildon-desktop's only problem Nov 12 13:15:23 edit up hildon-initscripts to fit in ubuntu maybe? Nov 12 13:15:42 doesnt look that bad Nov 12 13:17:06 does it really need initscripts? Nov 12 13:17:40 it's not /etc/init.d as i can see Nov 12 13:17:49 ah, ok Nov 12 13:17:51 just looked Nov 12 13:18:04 very poor choice of name :) Nov 12 13:19:02 back in a couple minutes, hanging up laundry :) Nov 12 13:20:20 i think hildon-initscripts would be an area where we need to edit things around a bit Nov 12 13:21:00 but for getting hildon running, no Nov 12 13:42:13 Stskeeps: i tried to install deblet-rescue-menu, but apt-get said deblet-omap-fb-splash is missing. Nov 12 13:42:31 arh Nov 12 13:42:34 i'll add that Nov 12 13:42:34 sec Nov 12 13:42:49 I installed deblet-omap-fb-splash manually and apt-get still complained that it is missing Nov 12 13:43:52 Meiz_n810 maybe the depend name isnot correct Nov 12 13:44:05 moo-17171 != moo Nov 12 13:44:21 the package name is exatly same Nov 12 13:44:23 had the same problem with my nxssh packages some times ago Nov 12 13:44:36 yeah the name in the end is the same Nov 12 13:45:02 but moo-1.10 as packagname is not the same as moo Nov 12 13:45:42 woglinde: trust me, in this case its my bad :P Nov 12 13:46:33 Setting up deblet-omap-fb-splash Nov 12 13:46:34 deblet-rescue-menu: Depends: deblet-omap-fb-splash but it is not installable Nov 12 13:46:49 it looks like same package Nov 12 13:46:59 Sts: ok Nov 12 13:51:12 hehe Nov 12 13:51:13 Meiz_n810: done Nov 12 13:51:14 ups Nov 12 13:51:52 Sts: ok Nov 12 13:54:38 Stskeeps: maemo-laucher is not installable :( Nov 12 13:54:46 *launcher Nov 12 13:55:28 johnx said it before me... sorry Nov 12 14:01:55 Does the xserver-xorg-video-omapfb contain the modified xorg.conf file? Nov 12 14:02:23 Meiz_n810 hm I think it do not need one Nov 12 14:02:52 ok Nov 12 14:02:58 otherwise stskeep should update to hal event and xorg-tslib Nov 12 14:03:28 at least in openembedded we now have such a setup Nov 12 14:03:44 last time i used xorg i had to use xorg.conf file modified by johnx Nov 12 14:04:23 maemo is running with hal eventd too Nov 12 14:04:27 as input Nov 12 14:04:33 and should be xorg ts too Nov 12 14:04:41 but do nit know excactky Nov 12 14:04:53 maemo uses xomap? Nov 12 14:05:02 yes Nov 12 14:05:06 ok Nov 12 14:05:07 in diablo Nov 12 14:05:36 Stskeeps: is that modified xorg.conf needed anymore? Nov 12 14:06:04 yep Nov 12 14:06:07 just checked it Nov 12 14:06:11 ok Nov 12 14:06:28 running with -mouse tslib -nozap -dpi 96 .... Nov 12 14:12:36 Meiz_n810, with xserver-xorg-input-tslib 0.0.5-2 you might not need an entry for it. I don't know if xorg is smart enough to guess it's on an OMAP device though in terms of video Nov 12 14:13:06 so try without the xorg.conf and then if that fails download it from http://trac.tspre.org/johnx/packages/x11/xorg.conf Nov 12 14:13:12 ok Nov 12 14:13:46 I still have to ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb? Nov 12 14:14:03 yes Nov 12 14:14:56 * Stskeeps continues doing his horridly boring work today Nov 12 14:14:59 ok Nov 12 14:15:02 php editing it consists of right now.. Nov 12 14:15:12 * Meiz_n810 reboots his n810 Nov 12 14:15:28 ok, should I packaging hildon-initscripts for now? Nov 12 14:15:36 k Nov 12 14:19:57 and yeah, sounds like an idea Nov 12 14:57:31 doesn't skype on maemo support sending DTMF tones?? Nov 12 15:00:45 riot, ask the skype guys, I don't think so Nov 12 15:01:06 hrhrr.. i'm using dtmfdialer via my stereo :) Nov 12 15:01:19 found something in skype's forums.. seems to be b0rked Nov 12 15:03:20 riot, try using baudline to send a 2600 hz tone at 1200w Nov 12 15:03:28 instant noise complaint =P Nov 12 15:04:00 bye Nov 12 15:16:54 audacity can generate dtmf, too Nov 12 15:17:19 but the stupid hotline didn't recognize it, probably because of a bad skype-connection.. so i still had to talk to an operator.. *sigh* Nov 12 15:17:28 Debian installer qemu images are now available1 Nov 12 15:17:53 for hasty armv6el-vfp Nov 12 15:18:32 hi.. i am a bit disappointed with the deblet virtual keyboard and also the lack of automatic bluetooth DUN.. how do I remove deblets boot menu? Nov 12 15:19:45 flash back the original initfs, if you created a backup Nov 12 15:21:36 so ill go back to the install boot menu process? Nov 12 15:23:07 Go to xterminal and cd to directory etc, there should be bootmenu things, but ask Stskeeps or someone that really knows how to do it Nov 12 15:26:04 where is stskeeps? Nov 12 15:26:27 at work :) Nov 12 15:26:59 Nokia didn't hire him yet =P Nov 12 15:27:07 ok ..does anybody know how to flash original firmware ? Nov 12 15:27:25 well that's easy. you just want to flash the whole thing? Nov 12 15:27:27 rafiks, last I checked, it was all over the Maemo wiki Nov 12 15:27:36 ~flashing Nov 12 15:27:37 rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Nov 12 15:27:59 i am going back to qoles debian implementation coz its much more well integrated.. Nov 12 15:28:10 that's nice Nov 12 15:28:15 I can't ,I have deblet install Nov 12 15:28:43 i dunno how to do it,,there is nothing on the deblet wiki about uninstalling.. Nov 12 15:29:14 if you installed deblet into an image file, just simply delete it Nov 12 15:29:18 rafiks, updateing the tablet firmware is not related to whats running on the tablet Nov 12 15:29:21 you said you just wanted to reflash? deblet won't stop you from doing that Nov 12 15:29:41 rafiks, what operating system are you trying to flash with? Nov 12 15:30:07 i cant get to that usb menu connection thing.. after I turn on n800,it goes straight to bootmenu.. Nov 12 15:30:32 ron1n: back to OS2008 Nov 12 15:30:45 rafiks, no no, what OS are you flashing from Nov 12 15:30:49 windows, linux, or mac Nov 12 15:30:59 hold the menu button at the same time you turn your tablet on Nov 12 15:31:19 the deblet boot menu isn't interfering withe getting it into flashing mode Nov 12 15:31:22 Meizirkki: i tried that but it goes to bootmenu Nov 12 15:31:29 make sure the usb-cable is connected before Nov 12 15:32:01 and connected to the computer your flashing with Nov 12 15:32:51 o,oo i got a green screen Nov 12 15:36:21 already connected cable still doesn't work Nov 12 15:36:52 I think Deblet is a peace of a great work! It has huge amount of packages available, but the only problem it that debian armel port targets to armv4 devices and because tabletas are armv6 it is a bit slow... Nov 12 15:39:17 rafiks: you can flash initfs only, and get rid of bootmenu that way :) Nov 12 15:39:19 same with any bootmenu Nov 12 15:39:24 there's a parameter for that Nov 12 15:39:40 Stskeeps: how do i that.. Nov 12 15:40:02 rafiks: using linux, windows or mac? :P Nov 12 15:40:20 Stskeeps: deblet looks good but it's a WIP.. Nov 12 15:40:28 Stskeeps: windows Nov 12 15:41:05 and it's weird that your tablet goes straight to bootmenu - mine i have to hold down my menu button for Nov 12 15:41:12 to get into Nov 12 15:41:28 deblet itself you can delete by removing the partition or overwriting it on your tablet, really Nov 12 15:41:41 my n810 goes straign to bootmenu too Nov 12 15:41:54 without holding down menu button? Nov 12 15:41:55 Stskeeps: yes ,i do have to hold menu..but instead of going to usb mode it goes to boot menu Nov 12 15:42:06 rafiks: the USB flashing happens a lot easier in the process Nov 12 15:42:08 Stskeeps: yes Nov 12 15:42:30 Stskeeps: and i have original deblet bootmenu Nov 12 15:42:55 rafiks: turn off tablet, turn off charger, plug in usb, start flasher program and start flashing, and plug in charger Nov 12 15:42:59 that should start the process Nov 12 15:43:14 flashing happens even before linux starts Nov 12 15:43:36 (i know this, i have messed up my initfs quite often) Nov 12 15:44:31 Mee too... Nov 12 15:44:31 ahh,what is the swap key? Nov 12 15:44:45 the what? Nov 12 15:45:02 on n800 it's the "home" key and on n810 it's the key with two boxes Nov 12 15:45:21 i read the flasher program ,it told me to hold the swap key while pressing power.. Nov 12 15:45:33 my bad i though this the menu key Nov 12 15:45:38 ok.. i never had to do that really Nov 12 15:45:42 but then again i use linux Nov 12 15:46:18 got it!!! Nov 12 15:46:24 woo! Nov 12 15:46:27 thanks guys! Nov 12 15:46:33 sure Nov 12 15:50:39 rafiks: but yeah, it's a work in progress and possibly a dead end, so we're doing something to see if we can make something more interesting Nov 12 15:57:03 * Stskeeps ponders what to do tonight beyond checking if a webcam works and a n95 usb tethering Nov 12 15:57:18 andre__: pong Nov 12 15:57:33 andre__: was I going to test something re bug #1623? Nov 12 15:57:39 Stskeeps, take a break and relax a little? maybe? :P Nov 12 15:57:54 what, you think we've done an insane amount? ;) Nov 12 15:57:58 (which i agree with..) Nov 12 15:58:01 yes Nov 12 15:58:20 Anyone here installed SDK+? Nov 12 15:59:22 johnx: but current status was hildon-init-scripts pending or? Nov 12 15:59:42 building now :) Nov 12 15:59:56 k Nov 12 16:00:19 lardman, ah, sorry. thought you could test Nov 12 16:00:39 andre__: I could, but haven't got round to installing it yet Nov 12 16:00:47 it wants automake1.8, not 1.10. That should probably just be fixed to work with 1.10 but I'll just note it for now Nov 12 16:01:00 no stress. another 4 months until i close as worksforme ;-)) Nov 12 16:01:14 andre__: from the instructions on the garage page it's hard to work out if SDK+ will work (for example there's no rootstrap afaict) Nov 12 16:01:19 johnx: yeah, apt-get install automake1.8 Nov 12 16:01:33 and fixed control and rules too Nov 12 16:01:37 andre__: well I might be able to resolve it one way or the other by pinging the SDK+ devs Nov 12 16:02:17 andre__: certainly it should be easier now as FORTRAN works in GCC4, whether or not Nokia ship it in the SDK is anyone's guess Nov 12 16:02:24 ;) Nov 12 16:02:25 ah Nov 12 16:03:19 I'm content that you close it, as there's no realistic way to get it working in the plain GCC 3.x toolchain, if it's not in the next version I'll raise a bug then Nov 12 16:03:30 that work for you? Nov 12 16:03:38 lardman, I've got an SB1 with gcc 4.3.2 here, want me to try and see if I can compile gfortran? Nov 12 16:04:03 qwerty12: it's more whether or not it comes in the toolchain by default Nov 12 16:04:11 qwerty12: i.e. does g77 do anything? Nov 12 16:04:17 fair enough :) Nov 12 16:04:26 cheers though :) Nov 12 16:04:57 Stskeeps, incoming! :D Nov 12 16:05:23 I cannot install GDM... Nov 12 16:05:55 yeah, possibly cos of gnomevfs2? Nov 12 16:05:58 I was able to install gdm in my u-m system i used before Nov 12 16:06:09 no Nov 12 16:06:29 depends: librscg2-common Nov 12 16:07:09 and librsvg2-common needs gtk2 package that is replaced by another package Nov 12 16:07:42 t_s_o, I tried the batteryfull led event and I couldn't get it to work on N800. If you really want it, I can get pybattery to do it? Nov 12 16:08:50 not really that important. but i usually just leave the N800 there with the cable plugged in. nice to know when its fully charged without having to walk over and poke it awake Nov 12 16:09:22 Stskeeps: librsvg2-common depends on gtk2.0-binver-2.10.0 witch is replaced by libgtk2.0-0 Nov 12 16:09:54 thing is that the setting is there in gconf, and it works when turned on. but the display/led settings in control panel loves to turn them off no matter what you do... Nov 12 16:09:59 somebody would like to check out my audio synth/instrument called boxar? its a work in progress and would like comments and feature ideas Nov 12 16:10:21 its for n810 Nov 12 16:10:28 or at least, works when the default battery applet is used, it that has anything to do with it... Nov 12 16:11:41 exec: http://www.poojyum.com/boxar, code: http://www.poojyum.com/boxar.c, screenshot: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/boxar.png Nov 12 16:11:50 jagernot: i would like to try it :) Nov 12 16:12:29 Mei: there it is Nov 12 16:12:48 jagernot, is this the evolution of your "h" program? :) Nov 12 16:13:09 Meizirkki: yeah, .. maemo gtk Nov 12 16:13:37 yes it is qwerty Nov 12 16:13:40 ok Nov 12 16:14:01 jagernot, brilliant :). Thanks :) Nov 12 16:14:04 its still called h on my machine ;) but boxar for your confidence :) Nov 12 16:14:36 play with it and let me know what u guys think Nov 12 16:15:43 i wonder if not the cpufreq indication in pybattery is somewhat useless, as i suspect that the cpu will get bumped to max each time one poke the icon to look at the menu... Nov 12 16:17:43 jagernot: Great app! =D Nov 12 16:18:27 thanks mei..work in progress Nov 12 16:20:15 hmm, something just killed hildondesktop, and im back at the usual icons and menus... Nov 12 16:21:40 jagernot: I love the ability to click and drag... Nov 12 16:22:04 yeh but if u drag over too many notes it distorts :) Nov 12 16:22:11 yep Nov 12 16:22:13 something to do with esound api i think but im not sure Nov 12 16:23:04 any foolproof way to tell what it is thats hogging the cpu so that it cant idle and clock down? Nov 12 16:23:41 'night all Nov 12 16:27:38 have anyone else noticed windows refusing to change between full screen and normal, but still think they have changed? Nov 12 16:28:33 worst bug ever. http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=680 Nov 12 16:28:39 yup Nov 12 16:30:11 still funny though Nov 12 16:31:10 Android looks awesome, the g1 looks even cooler. Perfect deblet projectbrb Nov 12 16:31:12 brb Nov 12 16:32:22 bah, the use of python in applets needs to be looked at as i fear that a cpu hogging applet will leave the cpu in a hooged state, even after the applet have been removed from the desktop... Nov 12 16:32:37 only real option is to kill hildon-desktop... Nov 12 16:33:22 t_s_o: i'm sure a C reimplementation is in order, python is great for prototyping and showing that its possible :) Nov 12 16:33:30 and doing stuff that doesn't need efficient Nov 12 16:34:08 could be Nov 12 16:34:21 I think I'm going to try my best to get my hands on some G1s Nov 12 16:34:28 and try and install deblet on them Nov 12 16:34:32 closed device, open system.. Nov 12 16:34:45 it's bad when you have to jailbreak a device, end of story Nov 12 16:34:56 the G1? Nov 12 16:35:13 it runs android, homebrew should just work nativley Nov 12 16:35:13 are hildon-initscripts in repo yet? Nov 12 16:35:21 yeah, Meizirkki Nov 12 16:35:26 Stskeeps, +1. If the device is closed, then fuck it. Nov 12 16:35:37 and people have already gotten EABI debian on it Nov 12 16:35:47 ugh, pybattery seems to be such a offender. even after its been toggled of in the statusbar, the cpu is stuck at max... Nov 12 16:35:57 http://www.saurik.com/id/10 Nov 12 16:36:00 yep Nov 12 16:36:09 apt-get says hildon-initscripts not installable :( Nov 12 16:36:32 i have ran apt-get update Nov 12 16:36:37 isn't deblet a debian based alternative distro for low spec EABI processors? Nov 12 16:36:38 "Device Rooting/Jailbreaking Nov 12 16:36:50 give hildon-desktop a restart and the cpu drops nearly instantly to 164... Nov 12 16:36:52 ron1n: nop. deblet is debian ARMEL with tablet support package on top Nov 12 16:36:56 +s Nov 12 16:37:00 and some environments fitting Nov 12 16:37:17 alone the fact you need to jailbreak it with "worst bug", is a sign of a closed device to me Nov 12 16:37:26 so while pybattery may be interesting for infoholics, it basically cant be good for battery life... Nov 12 16:37:36 t_s_o: the idea is good though Nov 12 16:37:42 sure is Nov 12 16:38:15 and the bug i suspect is in the way python and hildon-desktop interacts, not in the specific applets Nov 12 16:38:29 ron1n: the "it's not a bug" comments are awesome Nov 12 16:38:43 * sp3000 doesn't know why he reads comments on tech news sites, they're all shite Nov 12 16:38:56 I swear I saw jott talking within the last couple days, but now I'm not sure if I just dreamed it. <_< Nov 12 16:39:01 well, roughly all anyhow Nov 12 16:39:15 sp3000: most of web2.0 is shite Nov 12 16:39:38 ron1n: and the fact you have to jailbreak to install debian means it's a closed device :P Nov 12 16:39:51 Stskeeps, I see what you mean now Nov 12 16:40:00 i -really- appreciate the tablets these days Nov 12 16:40:12 t_s_o: I blame the people Nov 12 16:40:21 Stskeeps, I really want to replace my phone Nov 12 16:40:29 sp3000: that may be more correct, yes... Nov 12 16:40:33 and I'm holding out on the next 'core' tablet release Nov 12 16:40:40 and then I will buy another Nov 12 16:40:48 Most people seem to only have the barest amount of intelligence they need to not starve. :P Nov 12 16:41:06 I'm starving and I consider myself moderatly intelligent =P Nov 12 16:41:27 web 3.0 better be all bots all the time Nov 12 16:41:45 The simulated social web Nov 12 16:42:18 Stskeeps: where is the hildon-initscripts? Nov 12 16:42:48 johnx: where did you upload it? Nov 12 16:42:57 Wanna try... =P Nov 12 16:42:59 oh, sec Nov 12 16:43:03 lemme get them from his folder Nov 12 16:43:36 did not find it from trac.tspre.org/johnx... Nov 12 16:43:51 Meizirkki: done Nov 12 16:43:56 ok Nov 12 16:43:57 its in his ~ so Nov 12 16:44:46 * GAN800 waits five minutes for maemo.org to login. Nov 12 16:47:02 The profile total views just seem to time out. Nov 12 16:48:22 johnx / Stskeeps : Does the osso-af-sb-startup replace osso-sf-startup Nov 12 16:48:29 er.? Nov 12 16:48:50 johnx went to bed Nov 12 16:49:03 and what error are you getting? Nov 12 16:49:44 http://trac.tspre.org/mrrepo/pool/main/h/hildon-initscripts/ contains osso-af-sb-startup, and i was just thinking about maemo-laucher. it needs osso-af-startup Nov 12 16:49:52 osso... that douns familiar Nov 12 16:50:02 sounds* Nov 12 16:50:51 someone knows how to add commands to systemiu.xml ? Nov 12 16:51:21 Meizirkki: yeah, dont take the sb one Nov 12 16:51:24 its for scratchbox Nov 12 16:51:28 ok Nov 12 16:52:26 you are trying to install with apt only i presume? Nov 12 16:52:38 yep Nov 12 16:54:14 i use apt-get if it is possible. If I screw something up it is my fault, if apt screws something i can say "it was apt" :) Nov 12 16:54:17 k Nov 12 16:56:01 Stskeeps: take some rest too, you have already done huge work. =) Nov 12 17:00:56 Rest? Nov 12 17:00:59 Pfft Nov 12 17:01:26 Sorry about my bad english.. Nov 12 17:01:26 Stskeeps doesn't get rest until his productivity drops. :P Nov 12 17:01:30 ok Nov 12 17:02:21 Grr, Nokia are fucking teases : http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/diff-newer.html Nov 12 17:02:23 :P Nov 12 17:05:36 GAN800: yeah, but tonight i think might be a good one to rest, take the dishes and shower.. ;) Nov 12 17:06:51 it's really not good for my sanity my gf is abroad, .. or sleep patterns Nov 12 17:06:52 :P Nov 12 17:07:49 Meizirkki: any luck installing though? Nov 12 17:08:02 installing what? Nov 12 17:08:04 gdm? Nov 12 17:08:17 hildon-desktop? Nov 12 17:09:02 hildon Nov 12 17:09:15 gdm isn't needed to prove hildon works atm so:P Nov 12 17:09:30 hildon-initscripts needs osso-af-startup Nov 12 17:09:38 is it already compiled? Nov 12 17:10:02 it is not in the repo Nov 12 17:10:03 osso-af-startup.. lemme look Nov 12 17:11:46 ick Nov 12 17:11:50 that'll take adoption Nov 12 17:12:28 please note that as a bomb on jaiku Nov 12 17:12:36 ok Nov 12 17:12:36 qwerty12, hehe. Nov 12 17:12:37 as it's a problem that needs to be dealt with Nov 12 17:13:29 qwerty12, I'd like to start messing with Tracker and debtags Nov 12 17:14:24 GAN800, Yeah, Tracker seems cool :). I'd also like to see the new thumbnailer as pvanhoof has been contributing a lot of code to it Nov 12 17:18:19 qwerty12, I wonder if we can use a fremantle section of Extras to olay with packaging stuff. Nov 12 17:20:14 GAN800, Hmm, I wonder how extras will be used in regards to fremantle. It looks good for Nokia if people can enable extras on their new N900 and download apps provided by the community. Nov 12 17:21:10 Already that is, instead of the diablo extras "mess" that occured when diablo was officially released. Nov 12 17:27:38 qwerty12, with the alpha and beta sdk releases, developers shouldn't have too much trouble getting their stuff ready before the real release. Nov 12 17:29:46 yeah :) Nov 12 17:32:29 Does any configuration need to be done repository-side for debtags? Nov 12 17:41:46 Hi Nov 12 17:43:45 glug Nov 12 17:45:35 GNUton, think you can add Italian translations to the package categories list? http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories#Translations Nov 12 17:50:03 GAN800: of course Nov 12 17:54:46 Thanks! Nov 12 17:55:05 The community is gonna kick the Nokia translator's asses. ;) Nov 12 18:02:28 There must be somebody who can add fi_FI Nov 12 18:03:38 GAN800: I can mail to Kate.. She can translate it in few seconds.. :D Nov 12 18:03:53 Awesome! Nov 12 18:03:57 GAN800: what language to ? Nov 12 18:04:35 disco_stu, any of the blanks here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories#Translations Nov 12 18:04:55 let me see Nov 12 18:04:56 Is es_MX similar enough to South American Spanish? Nov 12 18:05:09 it must be the same Nov 12 18:06:09 spanish is good Nov 12 18:06:23 those will fit mexicans Nov 12 18:07:11 GAN800: I have just mailed to Kate for the Finnish translation... Nov 12 18:08:44 Bugging INdT about pt_BR. . . . Nov 12 18:08:54 Thanks, GNUton! Nov 12 18:13:47 GAN800: u r welcome! Nov 12 18:15:19 Ah, there's INdT now. Nov 12 18:28:47 GAN800: PT_BR done! Nov 12 18:28:52 hello there, is there any way to detect i'm running my python app on maemo? like a equivalent to python's sys.platform, maybe? Nov 12 18:32:15 chenca, how different is pt_PT? Nov 12 18:32:47 * Khertan_n810 HATE ORANGE !!! STUPID THERE ARE !!!! Nov 12 18:33:31 they have just reset my phone call ... and credit is zero Nov 12 18:33:33 grrrr Nov 12 18:34:02 if can grab one of them i ll kick there fucking ass ! Nov 12 18:34:16 Khertan_n810: you bette get a girl :) Nov 12 18:34:16 never never bought something from them ! Nov 12 18:34:23 and kick her ass Nov 12 18:35:14 * Khertan_n810 is in furious mode Nov 12 18:37:01 * RST38h imagines Khertan kicking orange's ass. Do oranges have asses? Nov 12 18:37:05 * disco_stu is also in furious mode Nov 12 18:41:06 grrr they really sucks ! Nov 12 18:41:51 GAN800: sometimes is very different, this words came from Technical Terms, in Portugal they use to translate the terms and here in Brazil we use to adapt the terms to Portuguese words. For example: Desktop in PT_pt is "mesa" (table or desk in English) in PT_br we use "Área de Trabalho" (something like space to work -> workspace) Nov 12 18:42:14 Ah, ok. Nov 12 18:46:51 Anyone here successfully used the 2.6.25 kernel + omap patches and booted their n810? Nov 12 18:48:05 Also, is there a way to turn off the splash screen so I can see boot messages as they happen? Nov 12 18:48:45 get a serial cable and wire it up .. Nov 12 18:49:39 you might have more luck trying to boot something not-maemo Nov 12 18:49:42 like mamona or such Nov 12 18:49:49 Stskeeps, now now, fbcon is cheaper :p Nov 12 18:49:56 Did qwerty12 ever put together a guide? Nov 12 18:50:01 lol Nov 12 18:50:25 GAN800, lbt documented my steps on the wiki :) Nov 12 18:51:18 qwerty12_N800: sorry, old and cranky Nov 12 18:51:19 :P Nov 12 18:51:28 :P Nov 12 18:51:37 Stskeeps - serial cable...i don't see a connectino for a serial cable? Nov 12 18:51:52 * GAN800 hands Stskeeps a cookie Nov 12 18:52:16 on a n800 its quite visible, on n810 you need to be dr frankenstein Nov 12 18:52:24 i have a n810 Nov 12 18:52:36 ah Nov 12 18:52:51 listen to qwerty12_N800, he has a way Nov 12 18:52:59 * Stskeeps goes try to cook something Nov 12 18:53:20 Stskeeps, grr, i know you know how too :p Nov 12 18:53:27 cyrus___, http://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting#Boot_messages Nov 12 18:55:13 cyrus___, serial console : http://www.bu3sch.de/n810.php Nov 12 18:55:34 thanks guys Nov 12 20:00:55 * Meiz_n810 is still not bosed enough to compile kernel, but he wants to know how to do it Nov 12 20:01:02 *bored Nov 12 20:01:40 Stskeeps: if you have time, can you tell me what i need to compile kernel? Nov 12 20:02:20 it's okay, i did it earlier Nov 12 20:02:23 the modules are all there Nov 12 20:02:30 ok :L Nov 12 20:02:32 :) Nov 12 20:03:46 It will not be easy to install other desktop-environments to m-r because they will conflict with maemos packages? Nov 12 20:04:53 is possible to substitute the wm with openbox ? Nov 12 20:06:16 Meiz_n810: we hope to make it possible to.. Nov 12 20:06:32 the part of the exercise is to isolate what problems there are Nov 12 20:06:38 yep Nov 12 20:37:49 god bless connectivity software, - i have a n95 in usb and one touch connect says its connecting through usb modem and all that stuff.. Nov 12 20:38:04 and my sony ericsson says someone tries to use it over bluetooth.. Nov 12 20:40:28 :D Nov 12 20:54:52 moo sts Nov 12 21:13:01 moo, RST38h Nov 12 21:20:51 people, is it safe to edit /etc/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf ? Nov 12 21:21:52 I don't believe it is safe. Nov 12 21:21:58 lol Nov 12 21:22:22 But i have edit many config file, and my hildon still works Nov 12 21:22:26 =P Nov 12 21:22:32 lol Nov 12 21:23:45 the best thing i've done is editing mce.ini Nov 12 21:24:05 now if i double click the power button the nit goes into softpoweroff Nov 12 21:24:09 is very neat Nov 12 21:27:01 unintended consequences: if he triple clicks it accidentally his pants fall down Nov 12 21:27:32 holy split! Nov 12 21:27:35 lcuk: very funny ¬¬ Nov 12 21:27:52 what the fuck are those splits ? Nov 12 21:28:09 i understand whe all are connected to different servers Nov 12 21:28:37 Servers get disconnected from the network sometimes. Nov 12 21:33:54 Ouch :/ Nov 12 21:34:26 meh. netsplits like this is nothing. try an entire network being completely unconnectable Nov 12 21:35:50 hehe the ircops investigate Nov 12 21:36:04 the ircops Nov 12 21:36:12 most ircops don't know their ping from their icmp.. Nov 12 21:36:42 * Stskeeps shakes his cane Nov 12 21:38:37 * GAN800 dances on Stskeeps' lawn Nov 12 21:41:07 * johnx tries to picture it, ends up laughing Nov 12 21:42:09 * johnx begins tracking down the deps of hildon-initscripts Nov 12 21:49:41 johnx: osso-af-startup starts actually having init.d scripts Nov 12 21:49:44 which include dbus and such Nov 12 21:52:57 Ha, what an excellent opportunity to beg. Nov 12 21:53:31 'See what happen when you don't give us stuff?' :P Nov 12 21:53:44 atleast it's not lilo Nov 12 21:54:56 the bootloader or the cartoon character? :P Nov 12 21:55:16 you might argue the late lilo was a cartoon character.. Nov 12 21:55:30 no, the freenode previous owner or whatever he was Nov 12 21:56:48 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Levin) Nov 12 21:57:52 * Stskeeps yawns Nov 12 22:02:54 * Stskeeps heads to bed Nov 12 22:03:12 'night Nov 12 22:09:12 Anyone here use fanoush bootmenu? I installed it, and updated the bootmenu.conf file (although I don't think that is the right config file since when I booted the options in the menu were way way different than I defined) Nov 12 22:13:51 http://maemo.org/community/council/view/1226527314/ Nov 12 22:14:13 cyrus, you have to edit it before you flash the new initfs Nov 12 22:20:46 GAN800, fr_CA and fr_FR are the same Nov 12 22:23:20 crashanddie, so we can just copy the fr_FR translation over to fr_CA and be OK? Nov 12 22:23:28 yes Nov 12 22:23:57 in this case, same as en_GB and en_US Nov 12 22:24:10 Cool, thanks. Nov 12 22:24:30 hang on Nov 12 22:25:57 fr_FR en fr_CA user/multimedia should be 'Multimédia', and user/education should be 'Éducation' Nov 12 22:26:11 (if those accents got through AOK, if they didn't, I'll edit the wiki page Nov 12 22:39:59 GAN800, I updated the page, I'm not too sure about user/navigation, some input on that would be nice... It seems awkward to use "localisation", which is the "act of finding someone/thing". Also, not sure about user/network, "réseaux" doesn't feel right. [the x means plural, so it's "networks" instead of "networking"] Nov 12 22:43:00 I also changed user/graphics to "Graphismes", which is the correct translation, "graphiques" would be the graphical object you put in a powerpoint presentation Nov 12 22:43:11 anyway Nov 12 22:43:14 My work here is done Nov 12 22:43:17 and fuck this channel is quiet Nov 12 22:45:17 :P Nov 12 22:47:39 crashanddie, thanks! I posted something on planet a little while ago, so hopefully some people will eyeball the current translations. Nov 12 22:48:13 I'm not sure if Khertan provided the translation that was there, but if not maybe he can look at it. Nov 12 22:48:33 also tell dneary to look at it Nov 12 22:49:07 I could always ask the professional translations team at work to do it for me real quick :P Nov 12 22:49:16 naaa, I'm an arsehole Nov 12 22:50:22 Hehe Nov 12 22:51:45 "Hi, could you translate Desktop, Programming, Educational... [...] into Mexican Spanish, dutch, Norwegian, Portuguese... [...] Nov 12 22:52:20 that must be the shittiest job ever though Nov 12 22:52:25 "On demand translator" Nov 12 22:52:53 I mean, surely the job at McDonalds wasn't THAT bad Nov 12 22:53:27 chrashanddie: uh....is there a table editor for wiki? ;) Nov 12 22:53:37 I'm afraid not Nov 12 22:53:56 Veggen, open the original and the editor in two distinct windows Nov 12 22:54:20 Veggen, use the words on the right and left to see on which line you should enter your data Nov 12 22:55:03 finally, you jerk Nov 12 22:55:10 anyway, off for a smoke Nov 12 22:55:13 LATA ! Nov 12 22:55:40 /msg nickserv ghost crashanddie Nov 12 22:56:03 can't be arsed Nov 12 23:15:26 muahahahaha Nov 12 23:15:56 i got pandora working in flash in the microB browser on n810 Nov 12 23:15:59 hehhehheh Nov 12 23:16:36 it owns Nov 12 23:18:45 anyone else ever get it to work? Nov 12 23:19:46 if I knew what Pandora was, maybe Nov 12 23:19:57 music genome project Nov 12 23:20:01 last.fm Nov 12 23:20:09 ah Nov 12 23:20:09 unlimited custom radio Nov 12 23:20:18 deezer works fine for me, thank you very much Nov 12 23:20:23 heh Nov 12 23:20:27 well Nov 12 23:20:33 hhmm you got one? so Pandora isn't a myth or maya anymore? Nov 12 23:20:55 hmm? Nov 12 23:20:56 And say I nearly worked for Pandora at some point Nov 12 23:20:59 err Nov 12 23:21:01 last.fm Nov 12 23:21:07 heh Nov 12 23:21:08 I like pandora but it doesn't work outside the US :/ Nov 12 23:21:13 aww Nov 12 23:21:33 im quite pleased with it Nov 12 23:21:34 dystopia, not the console . . . Nov 12 23:21:42 its flash based though Nov 12 23:22:04 and it gives script error on n810 Nov 12 23:22:27 but i got around it heh Nov 12 23:23:43 how exactly does last.fm work..? i know theres a plugin for canola 2 but ive never tried Nov 12 23:23:55 last.fm uses their "scrobbler" Nov 12 23:24:03 ehh? Nov 12 23:24:09 basically, you select a music genre, or an artist Nov 12 23:24:18 mmk Nov 12 23:24:20 and it plays music/songs from similar artists/genres Nov 12 23:24:27 ah Nov 12 23:24:28 you train it by saying you love/hate a song Nov 12 23:24:35 hmm Nov 12 23:24:43 same with pandora heh Nov 12 23:24:55 deezer is better :P Nov 12 23:25:01 can you have multiple stations? Nov 12 23:25:09 sure Nov 12 23:25:09 deezer? Nov 12 23:25:20 you can even make your own playlists and listen to whole albums Nov 12 23:25:30 www.deezer.com Nov 12 23:25:30 interesting Nov 12 23:26:02 hmm Nov 12 23:26:13 whats different about deezer? Nov 12 23:26:34 you get to actually select the songs you want to listen to? Nov 12 23:26:42 o.o Nov 12 23:26:52 As in, if you want to listen to one song over and over, it doesn't tell you "you've listened too much to this song, sorry" Nov 12 23:27:08 ah Nov 12 23:27:32 does it have the same training ability or is it all choice? Nov 12 23:27:42 I think it has Nov 12 23:27:45 with the smartradios Nov 12 23:27:50 but I never used the feature, so I'm not sure Nov 12 23:28:05 ah Nov 12 23:28:27 im not all that into music w/ knowing all the songs and stuff so i dont know Nov 12 23:28:34 hmm Nov 12 23:29:19 oh well Nov 12 23:30:06 cya guys, if anyone wants a youtube vid of how to get pandora to work let me know @ jareduarunorudu@gmail.com Nov 12 23:30:10 cya Nov 12 23:36:03 whats pandora ? Nov 12 23:38:40 disco_stu, scrollback. Nov 12 23:40:23 lol i thought he received his order early =] Nov 12 23:40:51 ah Nov 12 23:40:57 not interesetd.. Nov 12 23:41:10 s/intersetd/interested/ Nov 12 23:41:26 lol Nov 12 23:54:02 hello.. Nov 13 00:00:05 hello? Nov 13 00:03:23 hi again; am here to (yet again) present my audio synth for comments/feedback/feature ideas Nov 13 00:03:37 http://www.poojyum.com/boxar Nov 13 00:03:42 its a box guitar for n810 Nov 13 00:04:00 screen: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/boxar.png Nov 13 00:05:06 thought it looked more like a low-res worms game Nov 13 00:05:35 err, worm game.. not worms Nov 13 00:05:54 jaska: talking to me? Nov 13 00:06:21 just thinking aloud really Nov 13 00:15:02 http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2008/11/say-hello-to-gmail-voice-and-video-chat.html Nov 13 00:15:20 would that video chat thing work with a n810? Nov 13 00:26:18 bef0rd, nope Nov 13 00:27:29 not even available for desktop linux :/ Nov 13 00:28:49 oh, yea, but I mean, a video conversation between n810 builtin chat client, and a windows desktop? Nov 13 00:30:53 only one way to find out :) Nov 13 00:43:22 * disco_stu is testing last.fm and he loves it Nov 13 00:43:35 anyone know about battery life API calls? Nov 13 00:43:53 I want to know the remaining battery life or energy used Nov 13 00:44:44 disco_stu, Vagalume Nov 13 00:44:53 akshay_, battery-status - http://nitapps.com Nov 13 00:44:54 is better ? Nov 13 00:45:03 vagalume is a last.fm client Nov 13 00:45:13 Is a native application to play last.fm streams Nov 13 00:45:36 ah Nov 13 00:45:43 i was using canola 2 plugin Nov 13 00:45:51 well that's good too Nov 13 00:46:15 i have to go to eat cause my mom is yelling me Nov 13 00:46:19 brb Nov 13 00:47:42 thanks Nov 13 01:48:32 ah, dependency hell. how I didn't miss you :/ Nov 13 01:54:40 the hell.. last.fm is very nice Nov 13 02:03:08 yes, yes it is Nov 13 02:04:41 Hrm, guess I should mock up a decent looking UI for adv-power. ;) Nov 13 02:06:47 i searched for ozzy osbourne, then i got a song Nov 13 02:06:54 but the others were related Nov 13 02:07:10 is there any way to listen just to an artist.. or that is the trick ? Nov 13 02:48:56 has anyone run into a problem where the n800 will get stuck in the bootup process? Nov 13 02:49:37 lots of people I'm sure Nov 13 02:49:52 my tablet gets all the way to the point where the progress bar finishes and then it freezes Nov 13 02:50:29 hmm, any ideas on how i can fix it? Nov 13 02:50:32 are you booting from sd? Nov 13 02:50:55 unfortunately not Nov 13 02:51:31 i have MyDocs symlinked to an external SD but never got around to setting up SD booting Nov 13 02:51:48 well at least you have your files Nov 13 02:52:01 I don't really know a simple way to fix the problem you're having Nov 13 02:52:01 tried boot both with the SD card in and out with no luck Nov 13 02:52:15 i can get into USB mode, so i'm considering reflashing Nov 13 02:52:23 but the weird thing is that the tablet won't charge the battery Nov 13 02:52:50 out of curiosity, try shutting down, unplugging, pulling the battery for 30 seconds then put it back together and try booting Nov 13 02:53:15 it probably is charging, just not showing you the charging screen Nov 13 02:53:21 yeah, i tried taking out the battery for about half an hour with no luck Nov 13 02:53:25 hrm... Nov 13 02:54:00 the thing with the charging is that it enters the first stage of the charging screen, but the battery icon is always half way full Nov 13 02:55:03 even after 8 hours of charging Nov 13 02:55:07 l7 Nov 13 02:55:08 maybe it always does that though Nov 13 02:55:13 power on the tablet Nov 13 02:55:25 and when she is booting take the battery out Nov 13 02:55:31 hmm Nov 13 02:55:37 at what stage of the boot? Nov 13 02:55:57 you pick Nov 13 02:56:08 disco_stu_away, how will that help? Nov 13 02:56:08 what is this supposed to do? Nov 13 02:56:25 does this reset some kind of bios or PRAM setting? Nov 13 02:56:31 takin the battery out, will consume all the energy in the piezoelectric capacitors Nov 13 02:57:08 won't leaving the battery out overnight do the same thing? Nov 13 02:57:20 no Nov 13 02:57:23 hrm Nov 13 02:57:35 beacuse the cicuit is interrupted Nov 13 02:57:43 i have pulled the battery out after the boot cycle got stuck Nov 13 02:57:45 and charges remain still Nov 13 02:58:05 about 5 or 6 times **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 13 02:59:57 2008