**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 18 02:59:56 2008
Nov 18 05:02:41 <zetheroo> anyone having any success with getting Mapper to talk?
Nov 18 05:30:48 <zetheroo> anyone around?
Nov 18 05:34:49 <r2d2rogers> Stskeeps: you around?
Nov 18 07:35:33 <zetheroo> anyone here having any luck getting Maemo Mapper to talk?
Nov 18 08:29:37 <zetheroo> anyone here having any luck getting Maemo Mapper to talk?
Nov 18 08:34:00 <aquatix> morning all
Nov 18 08:51:10 <lslarry> re. ppl, can you tell me which application is usable for phonebook sync (like gnokii front-end)?
Nov 18 08:53:24 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 18 08:55:08 <zetheroo> anyone here having any luck getting Maemo Mapper to talk?
Nov 18 09:00:17 <zetheroo> so far I have only heard from one person who got flite to work in Mapper ...
Nov 18 09:00:27 <zetheroo> and that was with an N710
Nov 18 09:02:22 <zetheroo> I also tried getting it working on my N800 ... but nothing doing
Nov 18 09:02:41 <zetheroo> I also cannot find any documentation or helpful information on how to get it working
Nov 18 09:12:38 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: Can i scp libgpsbt and libgpsmgr to trac.tspre.org?
Nov 18 09:17:19 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: sorry, it's closed source and non-redistributable so we can't touch it for now
Nov 18 09:17:30 <Stskeeps> as we're targetting a "free" generic platform
Nov 18 09:17:33 <Stskeeps> it's alright though
Nov 18 09:19:57 <Meiz_n810> Maemo wiki says target is not to make completely-open-source os. But is it illegal to add non-free packages to repo?
Nov 18 09:20:13 <Stskeeps> well
Nov 18 09:20:47 <Stskeeps> no, maemo reconstructed wiki page doesn't say it should be completely open source - it says the base system should be free, and vendors can add value-adding services/apps/etc on top
Nov 18 09:20:51 <Stskeeps> and hardware support
Nov 18 09:21:08 <Stskeeps> and yes, it would be illegal for us to redistribute nokia packages
Nov 18 09:21:19 <Stskeeps> as in, the closed source ones
Nov 18 09:21:42 <suihkulokki> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM
Nov 18 09:21:57 <Stskeeps> *looks*
Nov 18 09:22:10 <Meiz_n810> i said: maemo wiki says target is NOT to make completely-open-source...
Nov 18 09:22:30 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 18 09:22:45 <Meiz_n810> but  if we do not redistribute, only use =P
Nov 18 09:23:01 <Stskeeps> we can do it in our own internal hacks but as soon as it leaves your tablet :P
Nov 18 09:23:33 <Stskeeps> "The primary differences are 1) Ubuntu uses "armel" as the architecture where mojo uses "arm" "
Nov 18 09:23:37 <Stskeeps> oh thank god
Nov 18 09:24:10 <Meiz_n810> yep
Nov 18 09:24:44 <Stskeeps> and putting it in a repo constitutes redistribution, so :P that's why we have the local non-free repo on your tablet
Nov 18 09:26:40 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: but what libgpsbt will be is that it's contrary to ideas of a generic platform a pervasive device likes GPS'es are not standardized on the platform :P
Nov 18 09:27:58 <Meiz_n810> ok
Nov 18 09:28:44 <Stskeeps> and gah @ hildon-control panel and launchers :P
Nov 18 09:28:46 <Meiz_n810> is dpkg-repack and then aupping in the repo illega redistributing
Nov 18 09:28:50 <Stskeeps> yup
Nov 18 09:28:58 <Meiz_n810> ok
Nov 18 09:29:51 <Stskeeps> basically rule of thumb i use is, if there's a LICENSE or COPYING file indicating a gpl / bsd / etc license, and it's actually possible to get the source code without agreeing to a license agreement, it's good enough for now :P
Nov 18 09:30:40 <RST38h> Wait, wait, once it is GPL, you can actually put more conditions on getting the code???
Nov 18 09:30:53 * RST38h can think of some REALLY GOOD conditions
Nov 18 09:31:07 <Stskeeps> RST38h: no, i've been in a fight with debian-legal on that, not again
Nov 18 09:31:08 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 18 09:32:15 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: recompiling control panel with nolauncher
Nov 18 09:32:35 <Meiz_n810> good
Nov 18 09:42:14 * Stskeeps attempts building advanced-backlight
Nov 18 10:00:08 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: hildon-control-panel deps on osso-app-killer
Nov 18 10:01:30 <Stskeeps> yeah, i'll get to that
Nov 18 10:03:30 <Meiz_n810> Advanced-backlight installed with no prob, will it start automatically with hildon?
Nov 18 10:03:59 <Stskeeps> no clue, you may have to select it in applets
Nov 18 10:05:58 <Meiz_n810> i'll try  :)
Nov 18 10:11:04 <Stskeeps> morning lcuk
Nov 18 10:14:03 <Stskeeps> http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2007-08-03/
Nov 18 10:15:03 <GAN800> Ha
Nov 18 10:17:24 <Stskeeps> melmoth: try now
Nov 18 10:17:25 <Stskeeps> err
Nov 18 10:17:30 <Stskeeps> wheredidmeizgo
Nov 18 10:17:31 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 18 10:20:29 * Stskeeps goes hunt extras for apps that would be a good example that what we have is actually a maemo platform..
Nov 18 10:26:52 <GAN800> Carman?
Nov 18 10:27:44 <GAN800> Vagalume, Maemo Mapper
Nov 18 10:28:05 <Stskeeps> Maemo Mapper is (sadly) out of the question, it depends on libgpsbt and libgpsmgr
Nov 18 10:28:11 <Stskeeps> which are closed source
Nov 18 10:28:35 <RST38h> Carman is not in Extras
Nov 18 10:28:59 <GAN800> Have you stuck them on the closed source page?
Nov 18 10:29:11 <GAN800> RST38h, yes it is.
Nov 18 10:29:24 <Stskeeps> GAN800: yeah, it's there already
Nov 18 10:29:27 * RST38h checks
Nov 18 10:29:38 <Stskeeps> GAN800: the irony is libgpsbt used to be open source :P
Nov 18 10:29:47 <GAN800> I'd've said Canola, but it's not open yet
Nov 18 10:30:05 <Stskeeps> yeah.. and we don't have python hildon just yert
Nov 18 10:30:25 <GAN800> Vagalume should be really easy
Nov 18 10:31:31 <Stskeeps> yeah, need to compile dsp stuff first
Nov 18 10:31:33 <Stskeeps> then it seems trivial
Nov 18 10:32:12 <Stskeeps> or something.. hmm
Nov 18 10:32:20 <GAN800> FBReadee
Nov 18 10:32:51 <RST38h> Yaaaaa!
Nov 18 10:32:58 <RST38h> Carman is in the Extras!
Nov 18 10:34:19 <GAN800> Coerce RST38h into compiling VGBA for it. :p
Nov 18 10:36:20 <Stskeeps> hehe.. it'd run like hell since our X isn't well performing cos it doesn't do framebuffer updates yet
Nov 18 10:36:45 * GAN800 steps on more landmines. :p
Nov 18 10:37:20 <zetheroo> anyone here having any luck getting Maemo Mapper to talk?
Nov 18 10:38:00 <Stskeeps> zetheroo: that's the fourth time you ask :P try on ITT, i'm sure there's some
Nov 18 10:38:37 <RST38h> zetheroo: Theoretocally you only need to install Flite
Nov 18 10:38:56 <RST38h> Practically, neither speech nor navigation are usable without bending over
Nov 18 10:42:34 <zetheroo>  RST38h: I have flight installed on both my N810 and N800
Nov 18 10:42:48 <zetheroo>  RST38h: flite
Nov 18 10:43:04 <zetheroo> Stskeeps: ITT?
Nov 18 10:48:43 <user__> Stskeeps: have you found a way to make icons work?
Nov 18 10:50:09 <Meiz_n810> Control panel is not in the app-menu, if fact there is nothing.. Does it have something to do with icons?
Nov 18 10:58:56 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: not yet, waiting for johnx
Nov 18 10:58:57 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1805#c9
Nov 18 10:59:23 <Jaffa> Blimey #303 (24h clock) has been marked as "fixed"
Nov 18 11:00:22 <GAN800> X-Fade, 'policy follows tools' is what they said
Nov 18 11:00:26 <lcuk> yes, it now correctly shows time in cubic 36 hour spans
Nov 18 11:00:46 <GAN800> So the policy update is dependent on h-a-m getting updated. . . .
Nov 18 11:01:07 <derf> Jaffa: HOORJ!
Nov 18 11:09:37 <mik_> hi
Nov 18 11:10:11 <mik_> after updating my n800 to diablo  maemo-pan won't work anymore for using the internet connection from my wm6 device
Nov 18 11:10:24 <mik_> anybody knows that problem and has a workaround for me?
Nov 18 11:12:20 * Stskeeps ponders idly if fbreader is actually openoffice in disguise
Nov 18 11:12:27 <Stskeeps> sure as hell is bringing my buildbox to its knees
Nov 18 11:13:17 <GAN800> libz is probably pretty nasty
Nov 18 11:14:27 <Stskeeps> yeah, zlibrary
Nov 18 11:14:48 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, think it would help to get the policy people to say something?
Nov 18 11:15:14 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: About what?
Nov 18 11:15:27 <GeneralAntilles> The category list changes for Diablo.
Nov 18 11:16:04 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: I guess it all depends on when it shows up in AM and when there is a SSU which includes it?
Nov 18 11:16:46 <GeneralAntilles> Well, it would be unfortunate for the documentation to be wrong for the rest of Diablo's lifespan just because the dates didn't line up by a couple weeks. . . .
Nov 18 11:17:31 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Well Eero said that he didn't want to change the policy unless there were more additions on that wiki page?
Nov 18 11:17:52 <X-Fade> But do we really have any other changes that should go in the document?
Nov 18 11:20:43 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, well, Eero said wait for more changes (/me doesn't really know of any important ones), and Juha Koivisto came back with "policy will be updated when the tools are updated"
Nov 18 11:21:19 <lardman> morning
Nov 18 11:21:27 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: It seems to me that either we are waiting on the tools or we are blocking ;)
Nov 18 11:22:04 <GeneralAntilles> Well, unless you can round up some more changes. . . .
Nov 18 11:22:28 * GeneralAntilles makes a note to handle the next issue like this on a public list.
Nov 18 11:23:36 <GeneralAntilles> If it's going to become impossible to change the Diablo documentation after this next update, then it seems like pushing the new list there shouldn't be dependent on the policy changing.
Nov 18 11:23:59 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: There is no harm in using the new list.
Nov 18 11:24:09 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Only benefits.
Nov 18 11:24:41 <GeneralAntilles> Well, Jarmo seems to be saying they're not gonna use the new list if it's not in the policy.
Nov 18 11:25:11 <GeneralAntilles> If only all this had been wrapped up in the spring. ;)
Nov 18 11:26:00 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: i added advanced-backlight.desktop to both user and system statusbar.conf, and it now starts automatically :) files
Nov 18 11:26:49 <Meiz_n810> files at the end is accident
Nov 18 11:27:06 <Meiz_n810> gonna try if it works now
Nov 18 11:32:15 <johnx> Stskeeps, waiting for which package?
Nov 18 11:34:03 <Stskeeps> johnx: i can't seem to get icons on the install
Nov 18 11:34:06 <bradd> just a quick scratchbox question.. Can I substitute using xnest instead of xephyr?
Nov 18 11:34:13 <Stskeeps> johnx: on hildon
Nov 18 11:34:16 <Meiz_n810> A-B works great!
Nov 18 11:34:28 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: usual screenshot :P (xwd?)
Nov 18 11:34:48 <Meiz_n810> how can i take scrshot?
Nov 18 11:34:57 <Meiz_n810> with the same comman i start X
Nov 18 11:35:32 <johnx> Stskeeps, h-i-m? h-d? which package?
Nov 18 11:35:36 <Meiz_n810> i'm at school now...
Nov 18 11:35:39 <johnx> bradd, yeah, that would probably work fine
Nov 18 11:35:47 <Stskeeps> johnx: hildon desktop
Nov 18 11:36:02 <Stskeeps> i have hildon-icons installed and all
Nov 18 11:36:20 <johnx> didn't I upload that?
Nov 18 11:36:48 <Stskeeps> i'm confused now :P
Nov 18 11:36:59 <bradd> johnx, thanks
Nov 18 11:37:04 * GeneralAntilles notices the Plenware spam has stopped.
Nov 18 11:37:25 <Stskeeps> i have the same problem as the first scrshot you showed me of h-d :P
Nov 18 11:37:44 <johnx> the one from my zaurus? or the one with no icons?
Nov 18 11:38:00 <Stskeeps> the one with no icons
Nov 18 11:38:43 <johnx> aaah, right, one more thing to fix then :)
Nov 18 11:39:35 <Stskeeps> what's the underlying problem then? :P
Nov 18 11:39:49 * Stskeeps wasn't able to solve it
Nov 18 11:39:49 <johnx> just need to add the path to the icon theme into the gtk theme
Nov 18 11:39:51 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 18 11:39:54 <johnx> since the names don't match
Nov 18 11:40:03 <johnx> sorry, figured it out and never documented it. oops
Nov 18 11:41:04 <johnx> gtk-icon-theme-name = "hildon"
Nov 18 11:41:21 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 18 11:41:30 <johnx> add ^that^ somewhere in /usr/share/themes/plankton/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
Nov 18 11:41:35 <Stskeeps> so we need to recompile plankton, k
Nov 18 11:41:58 <johnx> I guess that's reasonable in the short term
Nov 18 11:49:35 <Meiz_n810> it was all about icons, menu is now full of stuff!
Nov 18 11:50:13 <suihkulokki> johnx: do you have a nicele package plankton?
Nov 18 11:53:25 <johnx> suihkulokki, well, it seems to *work* but I think it's just a straight checkout and dpkg-buildpackage from Nokia's svn repo
Nov 18 11:53:53 <suihkulokki> pkg-maemo is missing it atm
Nov 18 11:54:17 <Stskeeps> plankton is CC 3.0 now i think
Nov 18 11:55:01 <johnx> suihkulokki, oh, thanks for the packaging job for hildon-desktop 2.0.7. hildon-desktop 2.0.19 works fine with that packaging applied to it
Nov 18 11:55:05 <Summeli> I have some path problems in scratchbox: the platform is searchin libs under /target/DIABLO_X86/usr/lib instead of /usr/lib
Nov 18 11:57:54 <Stskeeps> right, i'm off to class
Nov 18 11:58:02 <Stskeeps> fbreader is compiling
Nov 18 11:58:13 <johnx> 'later Stskeeps. I'll beat my head against h-i-m again for a while
Nov 18 11:58:17 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 18 12:04:10 <Meiz_n810> crap quality pic about m-r with a-b: http://picasaweb.google.com/mail.deweb/MaemoReconstructed#5269966649978278514
Nov 18 12:04:53 <Meiz_n810> screen rotation (surprise!) kills xorg
Nov 18 12:05:00 <johnx> heh :)
Nov 18 12:05:17 <johnx> you have a rotation enabled kernel installed?
Nov 18 12:06:54 <johnx> suihkulokki, did you ever take a look at suihkulokki? is it worth using or not?
Nov 18 12:07:13 <suihkulokki> am I worth using?
Nov 18 12:07:21 <johnx> change that second one to maemo-launcher
Nov 18 12:07:41 <suihkulokki> =)
Nov 18 12:07:46 * johnx is apparently making random typo's tonight, blames his paste buffer
Nov 18 12:08:12 <suihkulokki> maemo-launcher is usefull when you start getting many hildon apps on your system
Nov 18 12:11:12 <johnx> back in a couple minutes
Nov 18 13:05:22 <disco_st1> hi
Nov 18 13:05:51 <disco_st1> s
Nov 18 13:22:02 <slapin> hi, all!
Nov 18 13:22:11 <slapin> is there some kernel gurus there?
Nov 18 13:22:32 <slapin> I'd like to ask for directions on tty ldisc changes in kernels >2.6.25
Nov 18 13:23:26 <slapin> offtopic question, but i was unable to find answers elsewhere. I just need some code sample of ldisc implementation with new kernel
Nov 18 13:27:25 <StsN800> johnx, we need to consider where we base from now ubuntu ports to armel..
Nov 18 13:28:34 <johnx> you mean in terms of the base distro part or the maemo part?
Nov 18 13:29:07 <StsN800> base i guess
Nov 18 13:29:29 <StsN800> in next poc iteration obviously
Nov 18 13:29:47 <StsN800> where we get beagleboards building for us
Nov 18 13:30:23 <StsN800> ubuntu arm targets armv5-vfp
Nov 18 13:30:36 <johnx> grr...that's really not the most useful thing ever
Nov 18 13:31:25 <StsN800> mm?
Nov 18 13:31:47 <johnx> well it's not optimized completely for the n8x0 or beagle/pandora
Nov 18 13:31:52 <johnx> but it also won't run on the zaurus
Nov 18 13:32:31 <StsN800> true
Nov 18 13:33:03 <StsN800> mojo has the benefit it targets multiple, but has arch arm
Nov 18 13:33:22 <StsN800> and is sponsored by nokia
Nov 18 13:34:03 <johnx> I wonder a little about the future of mojo
Nov 18 13:34:10 <StsN800> yeah..
Nov 18 13:35:11 <StsN800> but if maemo-r goes in full swing there would be benefit to atleast armv6 and non-vfp
Nov 18 13:35:32 <StsN800> while ubuntu takes care of armv5el-vfp
Nov 18 13:35:34 <suihkulokki> StsN800, ubuntu doesn't target armv5-vfp
Nov 18 13:35:50 <johnx> ah, what are they targetting? plain armv5?
Nov 18 13:36:02 <StsN800> hm, thought i just read that
Nov 18 13:36:27 <suihkulokki> it's armv5t with armv6/armv7/vfp/neon optimized libraries where there is significant performance gain.
Nov 18 13:36:29 <StsN800> http://blog.canonical.com/?p=74
Nov 18 13:37:52 <suihkulokki> you can allways join #ubuntu-arm and ask :)
Nov 18 13:38:02 <StsN800> is there size benefits to v5 vs v6 for instance?
Nov 18 13:38:08 <StsN800> i just might
Nov 18 13:38:31 <johnx> well if you avoid vfp you can use thumb, IIRC
Nov 18 13:40:13 <StsN800> anyway, when we've been through this first iteration we will set a proper builder up so we can rebase easily
Nov 18 13:40:44 <johnx> is there a beagleboard to do it full time or will it be on qemu somewhere?
Nov 18 13:42:09 <StsN800> yeah, i'll set up connected at my work
Nov 18 13:42:24 <johnx> woo!
Nov 18 13:42:29 <StsN800> 2x
Nov 18 13:43:42 <StsN800> we'd probably see i386 builds too though
Nov 18 13:44:01 <StsN800> as we have a atom board to target
Nov 18 13:47:58 <johnx> interesting. looks like ubuntu uses matchbox-keyboard in ubuntu-mobile
Nov 18 13:49:09 <StsN800> mm
Nov 18 13:50:04 <StsN800> the question is really kbd icon vs click in text field
Nov 18 14:44:34 * StsN801 wonders idly if his city is being evacuated or something
Nov 18 14:44:54 <disco_stu> StsN801: why ?
Nov 18 14:45:47 <StsN801> never seen that amount of passengers and cars.. or ive managed to steer clear of the real rush hour the 5 years ive lived here..
Nov 18 14:45:52 <StsN801> :P
Nov 18 14:46:56 <disco_stu> where u live ?
Nov 18 14:47:37 <StsN801> .dk
Nov 18 14:48:03 <disco_stu> whic means..
Nov 18 14:48:10 <disco_stu> s/whic/wich/
Nov 18 14:48:11 <infobot> disco_stu meant: wich means..
Nov 18 14:48:14 <StsN801> denmark
Nov 18 14:48:18 <StsN801> :)
Nov 18 14:48:36 <disco_stu> nice place for sure
Nov 18 14:49:38 <matrx> anyone experiencing file manager no longer detecting smb shares on an n810?  still works on the n800, both running diablo
Nov 18 14:50:35 <disco_stu> matrx: i experienced that for some time.. but then i flashed to diablo and now seems to work
Nov 18 14:51:15 <disco_stu> other thing is, if the share is password protected filemanager wont show it
Nov 18 14:52:45 <matrx> yeah, looks like it's reflash time
Nov 18 14:53:10 <matrx> this will be my first reflash since diablo was released, i was getting spoiled
Nov 18 14:53:55 <disco_stu> matrx: maybe it is not neccesary.. it maybe something within your network
Nov 18 14:54:07 <disco_stu> s/maybe/may be/
Nov 18 14:54:08 <infobot> disco_stu meant: matrx: may be it is not neccesary.. it maybe something within your network
Nov 18 14:54:20 <disco_stu> shit
Nov 18 14:54:32 <matrx> naw, it still works on the n800 running diablo
Nov 18 14:55:02 <disco_stu> certainly..
Nov 18 15:03:31 <bobbytek> Anyone familiar with Nokia N810 Mozilla browser?
Nov 18 15:05:26 <bobbytek> I'm trying to get a 3gp video playing inside the browser.  Is that possible?
Nov 18 15:05:47 <johnx> probably not
Nov 18 15:05:54 <johnx> can you just download it?
Nov 18 15:06:10 <bobbytek> well, we have a web page we are trying to display in the browser
Nov 18 15:06:21 <bobbytek> We were hoping that this could embed a 3gp video
Nov 18 15:06:29 <bobbytek> Right now it just opens with the media player
Nov 18 15:06:37 <johnx> I think that's the best you can do
Nov 18 15:06:46 <johnx> you could embed flash video but it would be slow
Nov 18 15:06:57 <bobbytek> Well, embedding flash does work
Nov 18 15:07:10 <bobbytek> Are you familiar with the device?
Nov 18 15:07:15 <johnx> I have one, yes
Nov 18 15:07:23 <bobbytek> Can't find much in the way of documentation
Nov 18 15:07:36 <bobbytek> Just http://nokia.us/A4686332
Nov 18 15:08:01 <bobbytek> I notice the browser supports "components"
Nov 18 15:08:01 <johnx> it comes with an instruction manual I think, and other than that there is wiki.maemo.org for advanced DIY type stuff
Nov 18 15:08:22 <bobbytek> Don't know where I can get these components, and how to install them though :/
Nov 18 15:08:24 <johnx> yes, it supports normal netscape-stype plugins I believe
Nov 18 15:08:37 <johnx> s/type/tyle/
Nov 18 15:08:38 <infobot> johnx meant: yes, it supports normal netscape-style plugins I believe
Nov 18 15:08:45 <bobbytek> Hmm, you think there might be a plugin for 3gp?
Nov 18 15:09:19 <johnx> probably not. maybe it would be possible to port mplayer-plugin?
Nov 18 15:09:39 <bobbytek> hmm, I'm not that saavy :)
Nov 18 15:11:59 <johnx> you could maybe find someone to do it for you :)
Nov 18 15:12:12 <bobbytek> "He also thinks that Fennec will be unique because Firefox developers will be able to build add-ons for it."
Nov 18 15:12:24 <bobbytek> http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=105865
Nov 18 15:12:33 <bobbytek> well, maybe if it comes to that :)
Nov 18 15:13:06 <johnx> well, add-on is kind of a different thing than plug-in, but microb (the included browser) supports both
Nov 18 15:13:16 <johnx> compoents = plugins
Nov 18 15:13:21 <johnx> addons = extensions
Nov 18 15:13:24 <bobbytek> I thought it was fennec?
Nov 18 15:13:32 <bobbytek> ah
Nov 18 15:13:41 <johnx> the included browser is "microb"
Nov 18 15:13:55 <bobbytek> oh, that article seemed to suggest otherwise
Nov 18 15:13:55 <johnx> also using the mozilla engine, but with a UI from Nokia
Nov 18 15:14:25 <johnx> right, there's two "mozilla-based" browsers
Nov 18 15:14:34 <johnx> for the n8x0
Nov 18 15:14:51 <johnx> the one included on the device is the mozilla rendering engine (gecko) with a Nokia UI
Nov 18 15:15:12 <johnx> fennec is now available for the device, which is gecko with a customized UI from Mozilla
Nov 18 15:15:32 <bobbytek> so the n810 is mircob not fennec?
Nov 18 15:15:47 <johnx> well you could run either one
Nov 18 15:15:53 <johnx> microb is what comes pre-installed
Nov 18 15:15:55 <bobbytek> I'm not sure which one I have :)
Nov 18 15:15:58 <bobbytek> oh, okay
Nov 18 15:16:11 <johnx> do you remember installing fennec? if not then you don't have it
Nov 18 15:16:30 <bobbytek> I have only looked at one this morning when my boss dropped it on my desk :)
Nov 18 15:17:08 <bobbytek> "most Firefox plugins require porting and repackaging before they can be used with MicroB"
Nov 18 15:17:09 <bobbytek> sadness
Nov 18 15:17:32 <johnx> might not be too bad
Nov 18 15:17:44 <bobbytek> well, I might have to yet
Nov 18 15:18:13 <bobbytek> Thanks for your help johnx :)
Nov 18 15:18:13 <bobbytek> Much appreciated
Nov 18 15:18:13 <johnx> sure
Nov 18 15:23:04 <bradd> is /scratchbox/users/me/scratchbox supposed to be a link?
Nov 18 15:25:54 <bradd>  /scratchbox/login is failing on 'if [ ! -d $SANDBOX/scratchbox/tools/bin ];'. my /scratchbox/users/bradd/scratchbox is an empty directory
Nov 18 15:26:41 <mgedmin> bradd: it's supposed to be a directory
Nov 18 15:27:04 <mgedmin> where /scratchbox is bind-mounted so it's visible inside the chroot
Nov 18 15:27:33 <bradd> oh. I made my /scratchbox a symlink.. this is a problem i take it?
Nov 18 15:27:49 <mgedmin> could be
Nov 18 15:28:05 <mgedmin> I've no idea how that impacts mount --bind /scratchbox /scratchbox/users/me/scratchbox
Nov 18 15:33:20 <bradd> mgedmin, when I do the bind outside of the chroot, it seems to bind correctly
Nov 18 15:33:39 <mgedmin> then it shouldn't be a problem
Nov 18 15:33:51 <bradd> am I forgetting to start something else? after a fresh reboot I should just '/scratchbox/login' correct?
Nov 18 15:34:02 <mgedmin> IIRC there's a scratchbox init.d script somewhere in /etc/init.d/
Nov 18 15:34:04 <mgedmin> that should be started
Nov 18 15:34:34 <mgedmin> if not, you may need to manually do 'sudo sbox_ctl start' once after boot
Nov 18 15:37:08 <bradd> mgedmin, ok, that works. I'm adding sbox_ctl start to my startup scripts
Nov 18 15:37:09 <bradd> thanks
Nov 18 15:39:29 * Stskeeps yawns
Nov 18 15:41:43 <Stskeeps> johnx: still beating your head at h-i-m?
Nov 18 15:42:24 <johnx> yup, got it built without maemo-launcher at least thanks to qwerty12
Nov 18 15:44:10 <r2d2rogers> hello Stskeeps
Nov 18 15:44:15 <Stskeeps> lo r2d2rogers
Nov 18 15:44:15 <bradd> could a missing "keybindings.rc" stop hildon-desktop from starting?
Nov 18 15:44:16 <Stskeeps> johnx: alright
Nov 18 15:44:33 <r2d2rogers> I still havn't been able to boot my cloned to MMC maemo since I started playing with deblet
Nov 18 15:45:01 <Stskeeps> was this 770 or n8x0?
Nov 18 15:45:05 <r2d2rogers> is there a way to get more info on the error?
Nov 18 15:45:11 <r2d2rogers> 770
Nov 18 15:45:25 <Stskeeps> and OS2006/07HE/08HE?
Nov 18 15:45:29 <r2d2rogers> 08HE
Nov 18 15:46:15 <Stskeeps> can i see your /etc/bootmenu.d/*.item? they should be in initfs
Nov 18 15:46:19 <r2d2rogers> yup be a minute
Nov 18 15:47:00 <Stskeeps> right now i'm not fiddling much with deblet since we're having some amazing results with a proof of concept of "Maemo Reconstructed"
Nov 18 15:47:11 <Stskeeps> which may pay off to 770s too
Nov 18 15:47:13 <r2d2rogers> I like to hear about that <G>
Nov 18 15:47:38 <r2d2rogers> I did get teh bluetooth working
Nov 18 15:47:44 <Stskeeps> http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed
Nov 18 15:48:31 * RST38h moos
Nov 18 15:48:39 <Stskeeps> moo, RST38h
Nov 18 15:48:53 <RST38h> qwerty,sts: hello
Nov 18 15:49:01 <qwerty12> hi RST38h
Nov 18 15:53:02 <r2d2rogers>  Stskeeps
Nov 18 15:53:19 <r2d2rogers> Stskeeps: http://pastebin.ca/1260459
Nov 18 15:53:21 <johnx> hallo RST38h :D
Nov 18 15:53:44 <RST38h> johnx: Heya. Looks like you won't have your wish about dragging plot in SlideRule after all
Nov 18 15:53:45 <r2d2rogers> I know the last line is wrong, Stskeeps, but I was reading forum posts and trying to figure it out
Nov 18 15:54:00 <johnx> RST38h, too difficult?
Nov 18 15:54:19 <RST38h> johnx: I have found how to report motion events (with lcuk's help) but it takes enormous processing resources in GTK
Nov 18 15:54:33 <johnx> really? I wonder how other things are doing it smoothly...
Nov 18 15:54:41 <RST38h> And less expensive mode (offered by GTK+) does not seem to work
Nov 18 15:54:55 <RST38h> johnx: Well, I have to redraw the damn plot...
Nov 18 15:55:03 <Stskeeps> r2d2rogers: remove _LINUXRC line totally
Nov 18 15:55:16 <johnx> well there's that I guess
Nov 18 15:55:20 <Stskeeps> for the boot menu item
Nov 18 15:55:20 <Stskeeps> for maemo
Nov 18 15:55:21 <RST38h> johnx: And it is not cheap, even partially because I have to do tearing analysis
Nov 18 15:55:43 <RST38h> johnx: I.e. 1/x gets torn at x=0
Nov 18 15:56:17 <r2d2rogers> Stskeeps: ok, done
Nov 18 15:56:25 <r2d2rogers> all else looks right?
Nov 18 15:56:25 <Stskeeps> r2d2rogers: and then refresh_bootmenu.d i guess
Nov 18 15:56:37 <r2d2rogers> k
Nov 18 15:56:37 <Stskeeps> yeah, decently
Nov 18 15:57:05 <r2d2rogers> I gues it has to be something on the cloned mmc then
Nov 18 15:57:09 <r2d2rogers> will dig there
Nov 18 15:57:11 <Stskeeps> hm?
Nov 18 15:57:28 <Stskeeps> well if you had linuxrc line at all, it definately wouldn't boot :)
Nov 18 15:57:29 <r2d2rogers> right
Nov 18 15:57:42 <r2d2rogers> it doesn't work either way
Nov 18 15:57:52 <Stskeeps> did you update it in initfs?
Nov 18 15:58:05 <r2d2rogers> so the issue seems to be with the OS on the MMC
Nov 18 15:58:28 <r2d2rogers> I have before and I will again after I look at the stuff on the card
Nov 18 15:58:57 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 18 15:59:09 <r2d2rogers> thanks for your help
Nov 18 16:00:45 <Stskeeps> np
Nov 18 16:01:56 * Stskeeps ponders why he now he has -some- icons
Nov 18 16:02:17 <johnx> because sdk-icons isn't complete?
Nov 18 16:02:56 <Stskeeps> well
Nov 18 16:03:05 <Stskeeps> i'm not getting your >> for instance
Nov 18 16:03:20 <suihkulokki> iirc you need a mix of hicolor and sdk icons
Nov 18 16:03:50 <Stskeeps> any of the dists that has done the hard work? :P
Nov 18 16:08:17 <GeneralAntilles> Alright, I think karma is officially stuck again. <_<
Nov 18 16:11:54 <RST38h> karma whore!
Nov 18 16:12:00 <RST38h> BTW, I sitll do not see itt thanks section in my profile
Nov 18 16:12:15 <RST38h> It is counted into the total, seemingly, but not shown
Nov 18 16:12:22 <GeneralAntilles> I'm missing mediawiki edits.
Nov 18 16:12:42 <RST38h> It is random - a week ago I missed other sections as well
Nov 18 16:13:32 <Stskeeps> heh, funny about the resemblance between tablets and star trek PADDs.. :P
Nov 18 16:14:16 <Stskeeps> n900 will probably be released at same time as the new star trek movie.. that would be cheesy
Nov 18 16:14:28 * RST38h thinks StarTrek pad is what we will end up with anyway
Nov 18 16:14:45 <GeneralAntilles> December?
Nov 18 16:14:47 <Stskeeps> true, a bit too early
Nov 18 16:14:56 <RST38h> So why wriggle? :)
Nov 18 16:14:57 <Stskeeps> RST38h: yeah.. that's my vision of tablets too really
Nov 18 16:15:19 <RST38h> The UI may end up being a bit different but not by much
Nov 18 16:15:45 <Stskeeps> we have LCARS already.. :P
Nov 18 16:15:50 <RST38h> I will only be satisfied when we get real deathrays though
Nov 18 16:15:51 <Stskeeps> i mean .. http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Sarah_Sisko_reconstruction.jpg
Nov 18 16:15:51 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 18 16:16:36 <Stskeeps> which reminds me i should bury myself in one of the star trek series again sometime
Nov 18 16:16:38 * RST38h prefers Dr Who
Nov 18 16:16:47 <johnx> gah, I always thought the PADDs looked horribly unusable
Nov 18 16:17:03 <RST38h> johnx: They have been designed by professional ergonomics people though
Nov 18 16:17:19 <johnx> professional just means they get paid
Nov 18 16:17:25 <mgedmin> if I hold that thing with both hands, what do I use to manipulate things displayed on it?
Nov 18 16:17:34 <mgedmin> where's the integrated kickstand?
Nov 18 16:17:46 <RST38h> mgedmin: Do you REALLY want this question answered?
Nov 18 16:18:15 <RST38h> Well, you are probably supposed to place it into a console niche and use it there
Nov 18 16:18:43 <GeneralAntilles> I always found it funny that they insisted on passing the things around like paper reports
Nov 18 16:19:01 <GeneralAntilles> rather than having a personal unit that has access to all data.
Nov 18 16:19:27 <mavhc> I think that's because it's a tv show, from the 80s
Nov 18 16:19:32 <mavhc> or 60s
Nov 18 16:19:37 <RST38h> General: Remember, that was *pre* networking
Nov 18 16:19:45 <GeneralAntilles> 1990s?
Nov 18 16:20:04 <johnx> late 80s
Nov 18 16:20:04 <RST38h> PADD appeared in the Next Generation
Nov 18 16:20:12 <RST38h> That is late 80s. RS232, at best coaxial Ethernet
Nov 18 16:20:30 <RST38h> No wireless. Maybe some inductive technology
Nov 18 16:20:49 <johnx> when were the first satellite phones again?
Nov 18 16:20:54 <RST38h> about the same time but it is not the same thing
Nov 18 16:20:54 <mavhc> the display appeared in TNG, the device was in tos
Nov 18 16:21:35 <RST38h> Soviet buses did have inductive communications (with little loop antennas installed at the bus stops) around that time
Nov 18 16:22:00 <RST38h> But I do not think this stuff was mainstream anywhere in the world
Nov 18 16:23:59 <dmsuperman> So any news on a new n800/n810 successor yet?
Nov 18 16:24:26 <GeneralAntilles> dmsuperman, OMAP3430, HD camera, HSPA
Nov 18 16:24:26 * qwerty12 says a massive thank you to "rafi"
Nov 18 16:24:50 <dmsuperman> GeneralAntilles: I meant like an n900. I like the nokia line
Nov 18 16:25:10 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, like I said: OMAP3430, HD camera, HSPA
Nov 18 16:25:21 <GeneralAntilles> That's the extent of what we know
Nov 18 16:25:35 <dmsuperman> Oh I see
Nov 18 16:25:35 <GeneralAntilles> current speculations says it'll be released around Summer 2009
Nov 18 16:25:38 <GeneralAntilles> based on the release schedule for the alpha and beta SDK
Nov 18 16:26:40 <dmsuperman> Mmmmmm
Nov 18 16:26:49 <johnx> infobot, n900 is OMAP3430, HD camera, HSPA, Maemo 5 (Fremantle), probably Summer 2009 (or later)
Nov 18 16:26:49 <infobot> johnx: okay
Nov 18 16:28:58 * Stskeeps wonders who else is marked as lead users at nokia since lcuk was on the list for a n900 :P
Nov 18 16:30:34 * Stskeeps continues fighting plankton
Nov 18 16:33:30 <Stskeeps> (which is about just as fun irl as it is on tablets.)
Nov 18 16:36:55 <johnx> ah the horrible plankton wars of 1934
Nov 18 16:37:29 <qwerty12> Plankton's ugly :P
Nov 18 16:37:30 <lardman> Plankton vs Barton & Beebe?
Nov 18 16:37:43 <hahlobit> is it sure that n900 comes out?
Nov 18 16:38:21 <johnx> hahlobit, we know nokia is making something that will run maemo but isn't a phone. they haven't said anything else
Nov 18 16:38:33 <johnx> "n900" is just what people outside nokia call it
Nov 18 16:38:37 <hahlobit> ok
Nov 18 16:39:22 <X-Fade> johnx: And it isn't an internet tablet either ;)
Nov 18 16:39:41 <johnx> right, saw that much from ITT
Nov 18 16:39:41 <hahlobit> has these tablets sell well?
Nov 18 16:39:44 <johnx> your marketing guy is realyl spilling the beans :P
Nov 18 16:40:16 <Stskeeps> i guess he's real, but he's quite open mouthed
Nov 18 16:40:16 * qwerty12 aint complaining
Nov 18 16:40:37 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, that's Quim's boss.
Nov 18 16:40:48 <hahlobit> they pulled away ngage even many people liked it
Nov 18 16:40:48 <Stskeeps> oh boy
Nov 18 16:41:05 <X-Fade> He knows what he is talking about, be sure about that ;)
Nov 18 16:41:05 <johnx> yeah, what will all the side-talkers do now?
Nov 18 16:41:14 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i guess that means less rumours :(
Nov 18 16:41:29 <Stskeeps> and more facts.. rumours are more fun
Nov 18 16:41:30 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 18 16:41:43 <qwerty12> hahlobit, N-gage lives on in the N-gage platform that runs on normal looking phones :P
Nov 18 16:42:20 <johnx> jeez that thing was hideous
Nov 18 16:42:47 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, think it'll be reasonable to mothball osv-c in favor of m-r in the medium-term?
Nov 18 16:42:47 <qwerty12> johnx, mine lives in pieces :P
Nov 18 16:43:02 <johnx> define medium term?
Nov 18 16:43:15 <hahlobit> ngagers waited accelerated wifi phone but got nothing
Nov 18 16:43:15 <GeneralAntilles> 1-3 months
Nov 18 16:44:03 <GeneralAntilles> osv-c is a semi-positive spin on what sort of amounts to a dead platform
Nov 18 16:44:12 <GeneralAntilles> m-r is a much more positive (if more complicated) new direction
Nov 18 16:44:14 <Stskeeps> "The N-gage also suffered from a memory management issue causing a "White Screen of Death,"" heh
Nov 18 16:44:32 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, really? Mine was overclocked and I never had a WSOD on it :/
Nov 18 16:44:32 <GeneralAntilles> Given limited resources and the inertia that's already behind m-r. ;)
Nov 18 16:44:48 <hahlobit> ain't here any nokia people who could tell for sure about n900
Nov 18 16:44:48 <johnx> what is osv-c again?
Nov 18 16:45:01 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: if we can put the idea into more executive language and say we're not directly targeting fremantle, but harmattan maybe
Nov 18 16:45:11 <GeneralAntilles> hahlobit, yeah, if they want to lose their jobs and get sued.
Nov 18 16:45:12 <lardman> hahlobit: I'm sure there are, but they wouldn;t remain employed for long...
Nov 18 16:45:25 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_Community_distribution
Nov 18 16:45:58 <hahlobit> ok
Nov 18 16:45:58 <Stskeeps> and fremantle as things that needs to be fixed ideally between alpha and beta of fremantle
Nov 18 16:45:59 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, m-r without the platform overhaul.
Nov 18 16:45:59 <johnx> has anyone stepped up to actualyl build it?
Nov 18 16:46:16 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, so far, no.
Nov 18 16:46:25 <johnx> do you think that will change?
Nov 18 16:46:33 <GeneralAntilles> jott sorta dropped off the face of the planet after I started pushing the idea.
Nov 18 16:46:42 <GeneralAntilles> Seems unlikely at this point
Nov 18 16:46:50 <GeneralAntilles> and I'd rather see any effort that might go there put to m-r instead.
Nov 18 16:46:52 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i'd like to wait until alpha SDK comes out to start really pushing
Nov 18 16:46:57 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, fair enough.
Nov 18 16:47:03 <hahlobit> would n900 got 3d accelerating?
Nov 18 16:47:03 <GeneralAntilles> hahlobit, yes.
Nov 18 16:47:05 <johnx> it's easier to stay off the public radar right now
Nov 18 16:47:11 <hahlobit> good
Nov 18 16:47:15 <GeneralAntilles> hahlobit, can decode 720p, too.
Nov 18 16:47:17 <lardman> what's the deal with the n8x0 driver anyway....?
Nov 18 16:47:29 <Stskeeps> johnx: proof of concept yeah
Nov 18 16:47:56 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: and when we have actual practical and reasonable results or close to, a push is good
Nov 18 16:48:00 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, fair enough, but if you could think on it. ;)
Nov 18 16:48:49 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, looking at osv-c, I'm not sure what it's really trying to solve
Nov 18 16:49:06 <lardman> bbl
Nov 18 16:49:15 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, Nokia's messed up idea of what the "OS" includes.
Nov 18 16:49:20 <Pavlov> heh
Nov 18 16:49:41 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, so is this going to be a meta package installed after flashing? or a flashable image?
Nov 18 16:50:04 <GeneralAntilles> Basically, an easy and clean way for users to start using all of the neat community hacks and open-source replacements for Nokia's stuff.
Nov 18 16:50:26 <GeneralAntilles> I was planning on a side-grade from osv to osv-c on installed systems.
Nov 18 16:51:02 <GeneralAntilles> It's a lot of what m-r does, but without the platform revamp and much more limited in scope.
Nov 18 16:52:42 <johnx> in the short-medium term a quick package that replaces/provides osso-software-version-unlocked and depends on less stuff would make some sense I guess
Nov 18 16:52:59 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: btw what was it sardine was supposed to be? i keep on finding references
Nov 18 16:53:05 <johnx> it was supposed to be beta versions released as source only for people to play with
Nov 18 16:53:08 <johnx> I guess no one picked up so it was canceled?
Nov 18 16:53:12 <Stskeeps> it also seems a little like m-r though, though pushed from nokia's side
Nov 18 16:53:15 <Stskeeps> with build scripts and everything
Nov 18 16:53:51 <johnx> ah, interesting
Nov 18 16:53:55 <GeneralAntilles> It would've been useful if they had actually used it.
Nov 18 16:54:01 <johnx> well the idea being that anyone could use it
Nov 18 16:54:02 <GeneralAntilles> But it seemed like more of a half-cocked plan from a few Nokians rather than a real concerted effort.
Nov 18 16:54:16 <johnx> I think the problem of an osv-c distro is that no one wants to pour their time into forking further from debuntu
Nov 18 16:54:18 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: my current plan is that we finish this PoC, take the experiences into a plan to form a platform from
Nov 18 16:54:32 <Stskeeps> and start building stuff and such
Nov 18 16:55:05 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, well, it isn't much more than changing the dependencies on a meta-package and playing with some other packages that'll be useful without osv-c anyway (like bootmenu)
Nov 18 16:57:08 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: and based on the experiences its a hope that we can start getting people more interested from nokia.. but we'll see
Nov 18 16:57:09 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, in that case is there a real tangible advantage to lumping all the OSS pieces together vs just letting people install what they want?
Nov 18 16:57:40 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, makes stuff like rotation and bootmenu a lot easier
Nov 18 16:57:44 <GeneralAntilles> as well as patched Hildon-* stuff
Nov 18 16:59:56 <qwerty12> I could make a jffs2 image but I get the feeling that Nokia will merc me if I distribute it
Nov 18 17:00:18 <johnx> qwerty12, nope. We've got qgil saying they won't
Nov 18 17:00:23 <johnx> want the link? :)
Nov 18 17:00:40 <qwerty12> Yeah please :)
Nov 18 17:00:40 <Stskeeps> does marketing trumph lawyers?
Nov 18 17:00:41 <johnx> the problem being SSUs
Nov 18 17:00:47 <johnx> that's what I wondered
Nov 18 17:01:38 <johnx> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=233546&highlight=sue#post233546
Nov 18 17:01:41 <qwerty12> johnx, how's the quest with hildon input method going? :/
Nov 18 17:01:43 <qwerty12> thanks
Nov 18 17:02:10 <johnx> qwerty12, well your second configure.ac went great. :D
Nov 18 17:02:13 <qwerty12> Cool :)
Nov 18 17:02:26 <johnx> and I think it's coming down to missing libatk somehow O_o
Nov 18 17:02:27 <johnx> or strace thinks so
Nov 18 17:04:36 <johnx> nm, I read it wrong
Nov 18 17:05:55 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, is 128 correct erasesize for rootfs too?
Nov 18 17:06:31 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: i'm actually not sure, look what fanoush does?
Nov 18 17:07:02 <qwerty12> fanoush uses 128 for initfs too
Nov 18 17:07:15 <qwerty12> ah well, proc/mtd lists the same number for both rootfs & initfs
Nov 18 17:07:40 <johnx> ah, I do wonder :)
Nov 18 17:08:19 * Stskeeps reads up on bzr
Nov 18 17:14:10 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: "Maemo Reconstructed" is against trademark policy if we called something Maemo Reconstructed PoC, isn't it?
Nov 18 17:14:34 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
Nov 18 17:14:39 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 18 17:14:43 <johnx> mame-o reconstructed?
Nov 18 17:15:03 <qwerty12> Maeho Reconstructed
Nov 18 17:15:04 <johnx> or is that maim?
Nov 18 17:15:06 <Stskeeps> hah
Nov 18 17:15:07 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 18 17:15:13 <GeneralAntilles> No Nokia Bullshit
Nov 18 17:15:40 <johnx> "some Nokia bullshit, where we couldn't be arsed to do something better"
Nov 18 17:15:40 <johnx> kinda long though
Nov 18 17:15:57 <qwerty12> |\/|@�|\/|0 Reconstructed
Nov 18 17:16:13 <Stskeeps> johnx: i'm thinking to use launchpad for next stage
Nov 18 17:17:14 <Stskeeps> (is there any movement on collaboration task?)
Nov 18 17:17:22 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, not really.
Nov 18 17:17:24 <GeneralAntilles> Feel free to jump in, though.
Nov 18 17:17:26 <Stskeeps> i did
Nov 18 17:17:26 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 18 17:18:12 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i think we can use M-R for experimental collaboration too
Nov 18 17:18:12 <derf> pǝʇɔnɹʇsuoɔǝɹ oɯǝɐɯ. See, it's not at the beginning anymore.
Nov 18 17:18:25 <Stskeeps> O_o
Nov 18 17:20:11 <Stskeeps> hmm @ https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/208
Nov 18 17:22:01 <johnx> will that be a problem? I don't think we can re-distribute closed source stuff anyways
Nov 18 17:22:02 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 18 17:26:26 <Stskeeps> "As this seems to be in the Desktop area and a non-critical issue (hence by
Nov 18 17:26:26 <Stskeeps> default a WONTFIX for Desktop as far as I understand"
Nov 18 17:26:26 <Stskeeps> huh? :P
Nov 18 17:26:59 <johnx> is that your pet bug?
Nov 18 17:27:08 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 18 17:27:19 <Stskeeps> atleast eero suggested a sane thing
Nov 18 17:28:05 <Stskeeps> which i hope gets adapted
Nov 18 17:29:58 <johnx> so Desktop category is a WONTFIX by default?
Nov 18 17:30:22 <johnx> that totally won't lead to priority inflation :/
Nov 18 17:33:38 <derf> cd
Nov 18 17:34:54 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: http://rafb.net/p/ecrqo529.html review?
Nov 18 17:35:48 <Stskeeps> johnx: i kinda wondered about that too, but at least it seems like eero saw the sanity of it
Nov 18 17:36:23 <qwerty12> Cool, advanced-backlight seems not to require any extra dependencies ;)
Nov 18 17:38:57 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, s/It is a/It is an/
Nov 18 17:39:18 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, drop a space in there after Hildon between Hildon(
Nov 18 17:39:19 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 18 17:40:57 <Stskeeps> ta
Nov 18 17:42:19 <Stskeeps> guillem did a proper answer
Nov 18 17:43:09 * Stskeeps is satisfied with that answer and that they reflected on it
Nov 18 17:49:04 <thopiekar> Could someone please tell me how to fixx my problem with garage.maemo (SVN) and eclipse? When I use the "new-project" wizard it doesn't show me any folder on my svn... what can I do?
Nov 18 17:53:02 <Stskeeps> johnx: https://launchpad.net/m-r
Nov 18 17:54:09 <johnx> looks good
Nov 18 17:54:11 <johnx> guess we're all big and official now :)
Nov 18 17:55:23 <GeneralAntilles> bergie, bergie, bergie. . . .
Nov 18 17:55:32 <GeneralAntilles> Capitalizing maemo.org. . . .
Nov 18 17:56:29 <Stskeeps> johnx: i think we'll branch the packages on stage probably
Nov 18 17:57:57 <johnx> and put some nice orig.tar.gz files into a proper debian source repo?
Nov 18 17:58:58 <Stskeeps> probably yeah :P
Nov 18 17:59:02 <Stskeeps> well i'm reading a bit up onthis
Nov 18 18:01:31 <lcuk> RST38h, have a mouseisbusy flag and only refresh 1/10 of the plot lines when in motion
Nov 18 18:01:35 <lcuk> Stskeeps, i like the fact theres a list
Nov 18 18:04:42 <Stskeeps> johnx: made an account yet?
Nov 18 18:04:53 <johnx> not yet
Nov 18 18:04:55 <johnx> hang on :P
Nov 18 18:04:56 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 18 18:06:51 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: yours worked so it looked correct and not the black shadow of death?
Nov 18 18:08:25 <Meiz_n810> what black shadow of death?
Nov 18 18:09:09 <Meiz_n810> advanced-backlight?
Nov 18 18:09:10 <Stskeeps> the icons problem
Nov 18 18:09:25 <Stskeeps> it looks like johnx's scrshot?
Nov 18 18:09:39 <Meiz_n810> your new plankton theme worked with me
Nov 18 18:09:57 <johnx> I'm finding out more about icons too
Nov 18 18:09:59 <johnx> will sum it up in a sec
Nov 18 18:10:30 <Meiz_n810> before installing i dpkg -r hildon-theme-plankton and rm -r /usr/share/themes/plankton
Nov 18 18:11:18 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 18 18:11:41 <johnx> looks like most (all?) of the icons in hildon-icons (/usr/share/icons/hildon) are actually part of the individual themes on os2008
Nov 18 18:11:55 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 18 18:12:00 <Meiz_n810> have you uploaded more scrshots, johnx?
Nov 18 18:12:11 <johnx> Meiz_n810, nope
Nov 18 18:12:17 <Meiz_n810> ok
Nov 18 18:12:18 <johnx> also, the default gtk theme folder is linked to /usr/share/themes/default
Nov 18 18:12:42 <johnx> I think there might be some config file or variable pointing to the default theme as well
Nov 18 18:13:00 <Meiz_n810> matchbox seems to lag
Nov 18 18:13:45 <Meiz_n810> hildon-control-panel appears to be small box in top corner...
Nov 18 18:14:46 <Stskeeps> yeah, i had similar problem
Nov 18 18:14:55 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: we arent on the fastest X right now
Nov 18 18:14:56 <Stskeeps> cos of it not doing updates on its own
Nov 18 18:15:56 <Meiz_n810> i remember u-m start-hildon script had more options in matchbox-line...
Nov 18 18:16:46 <hahlobit> does these usb dvb sticks work in maemo if they work in pc-linux?
Nov 18 18:17:30 <qwerty12> hahlobit, if dvb-h : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=153348
Nov 18 18:18:18 <hahlobit> ok thanks
Nov 18 18:20:01 <Stskeeps> flash count, 124mb
Nov 18 18:25:38 <Stskeeps> johnx: is your home screen black with no window decorations too, and nothing on left side too? is it cos it's missing a background or?
Nov 18 18:26:14 <johnx> nothing on the left side? you mean nothing is visible? or the panel isn't there?
Nov 18 18:26:37 <johnx> also, there should be the menu icon in the middle left
Nov 18 18:26:38 <Stskeeps> yeah, there is
Nov 18 18:27:11 <Meiz_n810> window decorations crash when i open the menu
Nov 18 18:27:11 <Stskeeps> ok, i guess it's just a lack of wallpaper
Nov 18 18:27:18 <johnx> yeah, it's saying it can't find the wallpaper file
Nov 18 18:27:32 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 18 18:27:32 <johnx> I didn't worry about it for now
Nov 18 18:28:30 <Stskeeps> yeah, i just freaked, until i realized it was actually transparent
Nov 18 18:28:35 <Stskeeps> heh, http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/files/2007/02/hildon-desktop-scaled.jpg
Nov 18 18:28:35 <Stskeeps> neat photo
Nov 18 18:28:41 <johnx> and there's the "two overlapping windows icon" visible on the middle left, correct?
Nov 18 18:29:04 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 18 18:32:06 <johnx> yeah, that is a really neat look. too bad that version of hildon-desktop apparently got nowhere
Nov 18 18:40:39 <Stskeeps> heh, ten bucks thats where the inspiration for netbooks came from..
Nov 18 18:40:39 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 18 18:41:30 <johnx> which is funny because linux netbooks tend to have a much worse UI :)
Nov 18 18:42:50 <johnx> Xomap installs just fine alongside Xorg, right?
Nov 18 18:43:40 <Meizirkki> Window decorations crash immediately after clicking some app on menu
Nov 18 18:43:47 <Meizirkki> before it they work
Nov 18 18:43:52 <Meizirkki> weird
Nov 18 18:44:11 <Stskeeps> johnx: yeah, think so
Nov 18 18:45:07 <johnx> nm, I guess all I need is the binary anyways
Nov 18 18:47:14 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, resolution independence is on the roadmap somewhere along the line.
Nov 18 18:47:29 <GeneralAntilles> Though, actually, an m-r release with a hildon-desktop like that for netbooks would be pretty bitchin'.
Nov 18 18:48:26 <johnx> yeah, a little sub-optimial with a mouse present I think
Nov 18 18:48:49 <GeneralAntilles> It looks really classy scaled up like that, though.
Nov 18 18:49:24 <johnx> it really does. I kinda miss plankton :)
Nov 18 18:49:25 <johnx> I have my own GUI ideas though
Nov 18 18:49:26 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, the new plankton leaves a lot to be desired. :(
Nov 18 18:50:10 <johnx> I doubt I could convince anyone to code them though
Nov 18 18:50:11 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i plan to build for i386 too at work :P
Nov 18 18:50:58 <GeneralAntilles> I really want a netbook with Hildon now. <_<
Nov 18 18:51:18 <lcuk> the applications running on a desktop/mouse driven system wont feel right will they? what works on a 5cm screen scales up as big and dopey
Nov 18 18:51:52 <GeneralAntilles> Well, scaling to 7" or 9" isn't that much.
Nov 18 18:52:18 <johnx> scaling from touch to mouse is the one that gets you
Nov 18 18:52:19 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Nov 18 18:52:30 <lcuk> yeah, kinetics with a mouse is wrong
Nov 18 18:52:39 <GeneralAntilles> But for a touchscreen netbook, maybe. . . .
Nov 18 18:53:01 <johnx> I'll tell you a secret: touchscreen on a notebook form factor kinda sucks
Nov 18 18:53:01 <lcuk> mmmmmm touchscreen slates :)
Nov 18 18:53:06 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, yeah, I'll bet.
Nov 18 18:53:23 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, made an half "osv" jffs2 image: http://pastebin.com/d1de3ca7b
Nov 18 18:53:24 <GeneralAntilles> I should say, with one of those interesting, but impossible to build or sell screen rotating designs.
Nov 18 18:53:25 <lcuk> yeah johnx, it feels incomplete and is deffo a for the sake of it
Nov 18 18:53:48 <lcuk> johnx, have you seen the eee desktop touchscreen model
Nov 18 18:53:56 * GeneralAntilles still thinks touch on a desktop is rather retarded.
Nov 18 18:53:58 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, you mean the fujitsu loox and the zaurus?
Nov 18 18:54:06 <lcuk> its a monitor replacement - all in one jobbie, but includes mouse and keyboard for normal use
Nov 18 18:54:16 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, yeah.
Nov 18 18:54:18 <johnx> lcuk, nope, but I played with a touchsmart the other day
Nov 18 18:54:54 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, hit the documentation and bundled media stuff?
Nov 18 18:54:54 <lcuk> http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/-/653/860/-/7728112/Asus-Eee-All-In-One-Touch-Screen-PC-ETP1602-WT-X0010-Intel-Atom-1-6GHz-1GB-160GB-15-6-Wide-Panel-Touch-Screen-Windows-XP-Home-Desktop-PC/Product.html?searchtype=genre
Nov 18 18:54:58 <johnx> wasn't all that bad actually. i can imagine writing notes on it while it's hanging on the wall, or maybe sitting at it like an eazel?
Nov 18 18:55:33 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, This is just an N800 testing rootfs image. I could do it but it's kind of pointless at this stage imo#
Nov 18 18:55:50 <johnx> the problem with touch notebooks is two fold: 1) that you're writing on something upright 2) that the screen moves when you poke it
Nov 18 18:55:53 <lcuk> johnx, i want to replace my current monitor with a touch, not for normal use, but as you say for extension activities, my tablet sits between keyboard and monitor and i keep wanting to extend my touch up
Nov 18 18:56:04 <johnx> IMHO 2) is the killer, not 1)
Nov 18 18:56:04 <qwerty12> I'll set up hrw's qemu emulation again tomorrow and test that image
Nov 18 18:57:33 <johnx> it would be nice to see decent sized slate
Nov 18 18:57:48 <lcuk> yeah johnx :) big brother
Nov 18 18:58:25 <johnx> a convertible tablet is close, but definitely not thin and light
Nov 18 18:58:37 <johnx> people are really comfortable with the notebook layout though
Nov 18 18:58:44 <lcuk> doesnt have to be as long as they are synced up, i can get things done on small one and use the additional space on the larger one to expand on ideas
Nov 18 18:59:21 <johnx> but *I* want thin and light :P
Nov 18 18:59:42 * lcuk gives johnx a piece of paper and space age pencil
Nov 18 18:59:53 <johnx> how about a beagleboard with a 10" screen and make the rest batteries :)
Nov 18 19:01:01 <johnx> ahaha...I can actually imagine prototyping it in wood :)
Nov 18 19:01:01 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, a bit like trying to tap on an N800 with the kickstand out on a smooth surface? ;)
Nov 18 19:01:03 <lcuk> well a large form factor omap would be desirable
Nov 18 19:01:08 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, worse
Nov 18 19:01:32 <johnx> not only does your notebook move, but the screen also tilts back
Nov 18 19:01:37 <GeneralAntilles> What was that Magnum tablet that was on Engadget for April Fool's?
Nov 18 19:01:38 <lcuk> i hate that stand i cant even use it when its up
Nov 18 19:01:42 <lcuk> its only for watching
Nov 18 19:02:05 * johnx loves his stand
Nov 18 19:02:08 * lcuk hits johnx on the head with his wooden crate
Nov 18 19:02:20 <GeneralAntilles> The stand is pretty much the best thing ever invented.
Nov 18 19:02:20 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/the-gigantic-htc-magnum-is-convenient-inconspicuous/ johnx
Nov 18 19:02:27 <johnx> actually my 10" tablet prototype idea would be a close relative of the lcuk wooden n810 case
Nov 18 19:03:18 <lcuk> hahaha GeneralAntilles actually, there was a crackberry storm that size in the phone shop at weekend, jakey was pressing the buttons
Nov 18 19:03:29 <lcuk> johnx, i want more tablet in that form factor, but i need a decent bezel still
Nov 18 19:05:23 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, your picture still makes me laugh
Nov 18 19:05:57 * qwerty12 likes it. It puts me under the impression that GeneralAntilles has a nice side :P
Nov 18 19:07:02 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, it's more effective when you jump between the old and new.
Nov 18 19:07:02 <GeneralAntilles> Ehehehe
Nov 18 19:07:16 * GeneralAntilles pats qwerty12_N800 gently on the shoulder.
Nov 18 19:07:45 <qwerty12_N800> :D
Nov 18 19:08:37 <GAN800> lcuk, sadly I haven't yet collected any interesting data. ;)
Nov 18 19:09:22 <lcuk> its making a difference now, people the world over just wont argue with a guy who puts his laid face on the chan
Nov 18 19:11:21 <RST38h> ehlo again
Nov 18 19:11:38 <RST38h> what's new and exciting?
Nov 18 19:11:51 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, maybe I'll start world peace? ;)
Nov 18 19:12:13 <lcuk> <lcuk> RST38h, have a mouseisbusy flag and only refresh 1/10 of the plot lines when in motion
Nov 18 19:13:07 <lcuk> hippy
Nov 18 19:14:34 <RST38h> lcuk: aha
Nov 18 19:14:44 <RST38h> lcuk: already have the flag. can't refresh 1/10 plot lines
Nov 18 19:14:57 <lcuk> why not?
Nov 18 19:15:21 <RST38h> lcuk: it's not a bitmap
Nov 18 19:15:41 <RST38h> have to do computations on the fly *and* some symbolic analysis Mathematica-style
Nov 18 19:16:33 <lcuk> yeah, but just draw less detail.. ie instead of calulating 800 points only calc 10
Nov 18 19:16:48 <lcuk> 80 ^
Nov 18 19:17:17 <RST38h> yes but it will look shitty =)
Nov 18 19:17:38 <lcuk> then as soon as you have stopped it renders again
Nov 18 19:17:51 <lcuk> people will understand
Nov 18 19:18:11 * GeneralAntilles takes another swing at https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Texts_for_maemo.nokia.com
Nov 18 19:18:11 <lcuk> 1/10 might be too much, just see if its worth a limit
Nov 18 19:18:13 <derf> Hmm, Carmn looks neat, but $170 for a BT OBD-II reader seems a bit steep.
Nov 18 19:18:16 <derf> *Carman
Nov 18 19:18:33 <johnx> car stuff = expensive
Nov 18 19:18:33 <RST38h> There is one starting at $57
Nov 18 19:18:46 <johnx> a real ODBII reader is a lot worse
Nov 18 19:18:46 <RST38h> johnx: Like...like...ENGINES!
Nov 18 19:18:55 <Meizirkki> what is the command i can take scr shots from console?
Nov 18 19:19:03 <GeneralAntilles> derf, they discount them every so often
Nov 18 19:19:11 <GeneralAntilles> Sign up for their mailing list if you want to wait for a sale.
Nov 18 19:19:19 <johnx> RST38h, oh the stories I could tell O_o
Nov 18 19:19:20 <derf> Well, normally it is $200.
Nov 18 19:19:21 <RST38h> lcuk: Anyway, I gave up for now. But the good thing is, I have made digit keys work without Fx
Nov 18 19:19:39 <lcuk> nice
Nov 18 19:19:39 <GeneralAntilles> It could be cheaper to get the RS232 adaptor and then an serial to BT adaptor.
Nov 18 19:19:40 <lcuk> that is a good thing indeed
Nov 18 19:19:51 <RST38h> General: Anything that *hangs* inside a car is a bad idea
Nov 18 19:20:02 <RST38h> Will get broken sooner or later
Nov 18 19:20:08 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, I routed mine up under the dash.
Nov 18 19:20:19 <RST38h> smart
Nov 18 19:20:39 <GeneralAntilles> The port is right between the drivers knees
Nov 18 19:20:52 * RST38h isn't that skillfull though. Would just plug the thing into ODB port under the glove box
Nov 18 19:20:52 * mgedmin wondered for a while what debian's minimalistic shell had to do with routing
Nov 18 19:20:53 <zakkm> is "tear" web browser any good?
Nov 18 19:21:10 <zakkm> compared to the builtin one
Nov 18 19:21:15 <GeneralAntilles> I just disconnected it from the plastic and insinuated it into a wiring harness.
Nov 18 19:21:16 <Meizirkki> it is good, but i still prefer microb
Nov 18 19:21:24 <GeneralAntilles> It wasn't particularly difficult with my Camry.
Nov 18 19:21:25 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, it's early alpha
Nov 18 19:21:50 <GeneralAntilles> My dad's old Volvo had the port in the center console storage unit.
Nov 18 19:21:55 * RST38h wouldn't do that to any of the three Camrys in his life
Nov 18 19:21:55 <lcuk> is this car diagnostics module bidirectional?
Nov 18 19:21:55 <zakkm> trying to find new things to tryout on my nokia ;p
Nov 18 19:21:56 <RST38h> Scary stuff
Nov 18 19:21:56 <lcuk> can you feed stuff back to it?
Nov 18 19:21:56 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, do what?
Nov 18 19:21:57 <GeneralAntilles> Disconnect a couple plastic clips?
Nov 18 19:22:05 <RST38h> General: Route stuff under the dashboard
Nov 18 19:22:27 <GeneralAntilles> Wasn't particularly exciting.
Nov 18 19:22:32 <johnx> RST38h, oh, you *need* a project car :)
Nov 18 19:22:53 <GeneralAntilles> I stuck XLE foglights on my LE Camry, though, so maybe I'm atypical. :P
Nov 18 19:23:26 * johnx replaces alternators in the rain, in the dark
Nov 18 19:23:36 <johnx> ahaha...then drives in the dark when they disconnect and short out :D
Nov 18 19:23:41 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Nov 18 19:23:49 <lcuk> i might repalce my read lights with a pair of n8x0s
Nov 18 19:24:01 <lcuk> rear
Nov 18 19:24:02 <lcuk> replace
Nov 18 19:24:02 <lcuk> ffs
Nov 18 19:24:53 <GeneralAntilles> I <3 my crappy FWD car. :P http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/sweetride.jpg
Nov 18 19:24:53 <lcuk> hahahahahahahaha
Nov 18 19:25:06 <johnx> nothing like suddenly having all the electrics and power equipment (sterring breaks) on your car die on a dark windy road
Nov 18 19:25:27 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, what, not manual steering? :P
Nov 18 19:25:46 <johnx> well it turned *into* manual un-boosted steering
Nov 18 19:26:03 <johnx> I believe in *some* comforts :)
Nov 18 19:26:03 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, im laughing at the picture comment
Nov 18 19:26:11 <lcuk> in the cool thread
Nov 18 19:26:31 <GeneralAntilles> Cool thread?
Nov 18 19:26:54 <lcuk> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=242916&postcount=8
Nov 18 19:27:13 <johnx> gah, I should add a real avatar to ITT, huh?
Nov 18 19:27:13 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, Ehehe
Nov 18 19:27:21 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, stupid grin!
Nov 18 19:27:32 <johnx> got one lined up :)
Nov 18 19:27:34 <GeneralAntilles> Jaiku?
Nov 18 19:27:47 <johnx> the same
Nov 18 19:27:52 <GeneralAntilles> I should probably replace my Jaiku avatar, too.
Nov 18 19:27:56 <GeneralAntilles> But I just love those sunglasses.
Nov 18 19:28:08 <Myrtti> Jaiku ♥
Nov 18 19:32:27 <RST38h> johnx: Replacing headlights on an '84 Camry in freezing rain - will it qualify as a project?
Nov 18 19:32:44 <GeneralAntilles> Headlights or headlight bulbs? :P
Nov 18 19:32:59 <RST38h> headlights, '84 camry had modular lights
Nov 18 19:35:53 <Stskeeps> johnx: so - how do we go around m-r iteration 2? start "all over again", bzr branch a hildon package, bzr commit locally till it's done and compiling, bzr push to personal branch|team branch|project branch, hint builder boxes to build packages for the branch which then uploads to repo and adds?
Nov 18 19:36:42 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1951/monkeylol1oi4pw0pdna8.jpg
Nov 18 19:36:51 <GeneralAntilles> Creepy monkey
Nov 18 19:37:17 <lcuk> monkey got fscked too
Nov 18 19:37:53 <lcuk> Myrtti, isnt jaiku just irc for web2.0
Nov 18 19:38:03 <GeneralAntilles> and lazy people
Nov 18 19:38:49 <zakkm> do any of you guys use the stylus, or just use a thumb'/fingers ?
Nov 18 19:39:02 <GeneralAntilles> I hardly ever use my stylus these days
Nov 18 19:39:12 <johnx> eep backlog
Nov 18 19:39:12 <GeneralAntilles> Only for sketching
Nov 18 19:39:13 <johnx> Stskeeps, yes, that seems like a great workflow
Nov 18 19:39:13 <Myrtti> lcuk: don't mock it, I found a boyfriend just two months ago in Jaiku
Nov 18 19:39:23 <johnx> RST38h, I mean a whole *car* that's a *project* :)
Nov 18 19:39:31 <lcuk> Myrtti, not knocking it at all :) im a member and use it etc
Nov 18 19:39:36 <johnx> lcuk, it's for people who want some permanence to the record
Nov 18 19:39:54 <johnx> zakkm, no stylus from the beginning
Nov 18 19:40:10 <lcuk> johnx, not really any difference to now
Nov 18 19:40:18 <lcuk> everything we are saying is in google
Nov 18 19:40:52 <johnx> I think there's something more to it, think of it as a high pass filter built in, and a more specific topic
Nov 18 19:41:12 <Myrtti> it's better than twitter and identica in that it does threads
Nov 18 19:41:34 <Myrtti> and you can ignore the rss-feeds of others selectively
Nov 18 19:41:38 <lcuk> heh, it leaks information though (in a good way) the cross talk makes it interesting
Nov 18 19:41:48 <lcuk> from your personal irc channel it expands nicely
Nov 18 19:42:16 <Myrtti> the leaking is configurable
Nov 18 19:42:20 <Myrtti> you can set yourself to private...
Nov 18 19:42:37 <Stskeeps> johnx: will also make it possible for people to easily contribute and so on i guess
Nov 18 19:43:37 <lcuk> i really like the mauku integration :)
Nov 18 19:44:00 <Stskeeps> johnx: .. and if this doesn't have a great effect on nokia, we can always turn the project into being called Mer (ocean) :P
Nov 18 19:44:04 <Stskeeps> .. or bitch, if told in danish..
Nov 18 19:44:04 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 18 19:44:18 <johnx> ahaha
Nov 18 19:44:32 <johnx> now that is finally a name I can really get behind
Nov 18 19:45:12 <Stskeeps> or the direct translation, "More"
Nov 18 19:45:16 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 18 19:45:55 <lcuk> Myrtti, i hope you didnt mblog whilst on first date
Nov 18 19:46:47 <Myrtti> no, but he did take a picture of me looking at the present he gave me...
Nov 18 19:47:25 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: any objections against M-R changing name to Mer? :>
Nov 18 19:47:57 <emma_goldstein> is there anyone running "labyrinth" on actual diablo (python 2.5.2) ? I got "importing gconf"-error
Nov 18 19:48:05 <lcuk> Myrtti, tsk tsk so was it the present that won your heart then
Nov 18 19:49:16 <Myrtti> lcuk: yeah, an O'Reilly Pocket Guide on vim (as I'm an emacs user) and he also flashed my N95 with new firmware as he had Windows laptop with Nokia Update tool and I run only Linux...
Nov 18 19:49:34 <johnx> also, it's a great onomatopoeia: "What should we call it?" "Uhm, Mer, I dunno."
Nov 18 19:49:34 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 18 19:49:34 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: i don't care much about the name =P
Nov 18 19:49:35 <lcuk> heh
Nov 18 19:49:40 <Myrtti> what can I say.
Nov 18 19:49:44 <lcuk> but how on earth could you date a windows user :P
Nov 18 19:50:02 <Myrtti> lcuk: work laptop... he uses Gentoo and Mac in personal use
Nov 18 19:50:02 <Stskeeps> Myrtti: isn't giving an emacs user a guide on vim like challenging someone to a duel? ..
Nov 18 19:50:24 <lcuk> it seems to have worked
Nov 18 19:50:31 <Myrtti> Stskeeps: I actually need vim from time to time when I work on servers that don't have other editors.
Nov 18 19:50:42 <Myrtti> so the pocket reference actually came in handy
Nov 18 19:51:04 <Myrtti> I do have emacs one of course as well.
Nov 18 19:51:55 <lcuk> you must have big pockets, or a mary poppins handbag
Nov 18 19:52:38 <Myrtti> of course I have a huge handbag...
Nov 18 19:53:52 <lcuk> you women are all the same, my missus just got a *bigger* bag, its like the frikkin tardis
Nov 18 19:54:37 <Stskeeps> johnx: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Ocean_surface_wave_icon.svg <- this pretty much illustrates our fight with maemo/hildon..
Nov 18 19:54:49 <solarion> "you women are all the same"
Nov 18 19:55:00 * solarion smacks lcuk until sense trickles in
Nov 18 19:55:12 <GeneralAntilles> Does anybody else get absolutely massive text on wiki commons?
Nov 18 19:55:12 <Myrtti> lcuk: I keep my pocket guides in my laptop backpack, though
Nov 18 19:55:24 <solarion> that said, a tarids-back would be freakin' schweet
Nov 18 19:55:24 <lcuk> its ok, im used to gettin smacked about
Nov 18 19:55:24 <solarion> bag
Nov 18 19:55:33 <johnx> You hu-mans are all the same, you all have two legs! what's up with that?
Nov 18 19:55:59 <johnx> Stskeeps, I was thinking more like this: http://www.theartofdredging.com/rogue-wave.jpg
Nov 18 19:55:59 * GeneralAntilles dies trying to coerce this wikitable into submission.
Nov 18 19:55:59 * solarion will refrain from the humourous reply that just about flew from his fingertips
Nov 18 19:56:00 <qwerty12_N800> solarion, yer, getting smacked is common in the north, lcuk don't mind :p
Nov 18 19:56:12 <lcuk> lol
Nov 18 19:56:25 <Stskeeps> johnx: haha
Nov 18 19:57:21 <Stskeeps> johnx: yeah.. that quaifies as a "watch out for us" :P
Nov 18 19:57:26 <Stskeeps> +l
Nov 18 19:57:37 <lcuk> johnx, http://www.flickr.com/photos/13964815@N00/99491056/
Nov 18 19:58:31 <zakkm> does the theme maker work on mac?
Nov 18 19:59:42 <johnx> it should
Nov 18 19:59:42 <qwerty12_N800> yes, it's a java app (i assume you are talking about konttori's one)
Nov 18 20:07:05 <lcuk> bbl
Nov 18 20:10:38 <Stskeeps> johnx: so, from bottom we start with glib and gtk, deblet svn packages (boot and such), i guess, and i get a build beagle set up
Nov 18 20:10:38 <_786soul> Got a small question. How can I disable the onboard wifi in my n810 to plug in and use an external one I'll connect through USB?
Nov 18 20:11:35 <johnx> Stskeeps, sounds ok
Nov 18 20:11:54 <johnx> I am still trying to track down this freakin' h-i-m problem
Nov 18 20:14:32 <Stskeeps> *nod* maybe it would help when it's not a hacked up platform i guess ;)
Nov 18 20:14:33 <Stskeeps> i wonder why the heck control panel acts weird though
Nov 18 20:14:41 <johnx> I'm worried that it's something in gtk2.12
Nov 18 20:15:08 <johnx> apparently the java guys ran into something that triggers a similar message
Nov 18 20:15:18 <johnx> java using gtk to display that is
Nov 18 20:15:18 <Stskeeps> sec
Nov 18 20:17:15 <Stskeeps> mm
Nov 18 20:17:52 <johnx> this: http://pastebin.com/m68992eab
Nov 18 20:18:18 <johnx> sapwood sure causes me a lot of pain
Nov 18 20:21:20 <Stskeeps> that looks odd, maybe X relays wrong depth?
Nov 18 20:21:28 <johnx> I tried it in xephyr with the same result
Nov 18 20:21:37 <cars__> Hi guys.  I'm having a problem using ssh to login to or from the n810 on my LAN.  I have generated and shared the appropriate keys, but it says it can't resolve the hostname (name or service not known).  How do I solve this? Do I have to make the server discoverable somehow, or relax the firewall permissions?  I'd perfer to ssh both to and from the n810, but mostly use the n810 as a client.
Nov 18 20:22:15 <johnx> I can't test it in xomap as xomap seems to return pressure events causing hildon-input-method to think it should launch the thumboard
Nov 18 20:22:51 <Stskeeps> tslib conflict maybe
Nov 18 20:23:16 <johnx> cars__, try using the IP address directly instead of the hostname
Nov 18 20:24:12 <johnx> anyways, can't think any more. going to sleep
Nov 18 20:24:14 <Stskeeps> nini
Nov 18 20:24:18 <johnx> I'll have my revenge tomorrow sapwood / h-i-m *shakes fist*
Nov 18 20:25:47 <Stskeeps> SAPWOOOOD!. or something
Nov 18 20:25:47 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 18 20:26:08 <johnx> exactly :D
Nov 18 20:27:04 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Nov 18 20:29:34 <johnx> I think it might just be some flux in sapwood at the moment
Nov 18 20:29:39 <johnx> <- lied about going to bed
Nov 18 20:29:55 <GeneralAntilles> :O
Nov 18 20:30:04 <Stskeeps> there were sapwood updates so maybe a recompile is in order
Nov 18 20:30:18 <johnx> ah, good, I'll do that tomorrow
Nov 18 20:30:32 * johnx really sleeps
Nov 18 20:30:51 <aquatix> johnx: nn
Nov 18 20:30:59 <GeneralAntilles> More lies
Nov 18 20:31:05 <GeneralAntilles> I bet he's gonna go brush his teeth first.
Nov 18 20:31:15 * aquatix bets too
Nov 18 20:31:57 <aquatix> might have to do with his alcohol breath though ;)
Nov 18 20:32:06 <disco_stu> where does johnx live?
Nov 18 20:32:11 <GeneralAntilles> In some fake timezone he made up.
Nov 18 20:32:11 <aquatix> at his home
Nov 18 20:32:23 <aquatix> yeah, gtm+johnx
Nov 18 20:32:28 <aquatix> *gmt
Nov 18 20:32:28 <Stskeeps> right now hes sortof around russia or finland i guess, timezone wise
Nov 18 20:32:45 <aquatix> he's drifting west
Nov 18 20:32:50 <GeneralAntilles> Aren't we all.
Nov 18 20:32:50 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles, he always goes to sleep early
Nov 18 20:33:07 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, Japan. ;)
Nov 18 20:33:16 <aquatix> 21:32:57 [freenode]        [CTCP] | Got TIME reply from johnx: Wed Nov 19 05:32:57
Nov 18 20:33:18 <aquatix> disco_stu: define `early' ;)
Nov 18 20:33:55 <disco_stu> i go to sleep normally at 3 am
Nov 18 20:34:17 * aquatix very boring at about 23:30
Nov 18 20:34:17 <disco_stu> and now it is 5pm
Nov 18 20:34:17 <Stskeeps> aquatix: jees
Nov 18 20:34:38 <aquatix> Stskeeps: otherwise i crash my car into something when driving to work the next day
Nov 18 20:35:03 <Stskeeps> was referring to his 5am go to sleep
Nov 18 20:35:16 <Stskeeps> if i did that, i would be sleeping atleast 12 hours after
Nov 18 20:35:18 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 18 20:35:18 <user__> could someone make transparent keyboard for maemo ?
Nov 18 20:35:36 <GeneralAntilles> user__, there are a couple floating around
Nov 18 20:35:36 <cars__> johnx, Thanks.  That works.  :)
Nov 18 20:35:42 <user__> thx
Nov 18 20:35:45 <aquatix> Stskeeps: ah :P
Nov 18 20:35:52 <GeneralAntilles> But we're a little slow to do real translucency.
Nov 18 20:35:53 <aquatix> yeah, me too
Nov 18 20:37:58 <disco_stu> i installed an irc bouncer, so you'll be seeing me online 24/7
Nov 18 20:37:58 <user__> how about video out ?  i didnt hear any thing new from those guys from bochum
Nov 18 20:38:12 <GeneralAntilles> user__, VNC or something similar
Nov 18 20:38:12 <aquatix> disco_stu: /me just does irssi in a screen session
Nov 18 20:38:29 * GeneralAntilles typically uses irssi proxy.
Nov 18 20:39:03 <aquatix> it's more convenient for me to use irssi as client too
Nov 18 20:39:16 <disco_stu> plus i can switch fron pc and tablet without you notice it
Nov 18 20:39:25 * aquatix too ;)
Nov 18 20:39:26 <aquatix> hell, i can even irc from my phone
Nov 18 20:39:27 <disco_stu> aquatix, i dont keep a pc on
Nov 18 20:39:28 <lcuk> disco_stu, thats really good news, i installed an ignore device today you i cannot see you 24/7 :P
Nov 18 20:39:28 * aquatix has a server :)
Nov 18 20:39:43 <user__> vnc ? ;/  i was thinking about something to connect n800 to tv like i do with itouch
Nov 18 20:39:58 <GeneralAntilles> user__, it doesn't have video out.
Nov 18 20:39:58 <disco_stu> so i put the bouncer on my router
Nov 18 20:40:13 <GeneralAntilles> user__, unless you're really, really good at soldering BGAs and writing kernel drivers.
Nov 18 20:40:24 <lcuk> disco_stu, watch out for memory buffer sizes
Nov 18 20:40:37 <disco_stu> lcuk, :)
Nov 18 20:41:39 <disco_stu> lcuk, not a problem
Nov 18 20:41:44 <user__> i now ;/ that nokia dont have but those guys from nokia labs bochum ?  show movie were they use  tablet without vnc
Nov 18 20:42:30 <user__> general im not as good
Nov 18 20:42:30 <lcuk> ive seen people go to the moon
Nov 18 20:43:05 <GeneralAntilles> user__, that was effectively VNC
Nov 18 20:43:05 <GeneralAntilles> It wasn't really a hardware solution.
Nov 18 20:43:38 <user__> ;/ thats bad  ;/
Nov 18 20:43:47 <lcuk> this was the sync thing wasnt it gen
Nov 18 20:44:34 <lcuk> ummm doofer thingy
Nov 18 20:44:40 * lcuk turns up a blank
Nov 18 20:45:06 <GeneralAntilles> There's a machine connected to the TV, it wasn't just straight tablet-to-TV.
Nov 18 20:45:06 <user__> thanks for help anyway
Nov 18 20:50:05 <GeneralAntilles> yerga, ping.
Nov 18 20:50:06 <GeneralAntilles> I'm loving the fact that you actually remain logged in on maemo.org now. . . .
Nov 18 20:52:05 <lcuk> "Maemo DP team blog"  that sounds wrong
Nov 18 20:52:30 <GeneralAntilles> development platform
Nov 18 20:52:35 <lcuk> i know what it means, it still sounds wrong
Nov 18 20:52:35 <GeneralAntilles> Which, interestingly, includes the website.
Nov 18 20:56:06 * disco_stu sees some latin nicknames
Nov 18 21:00:52 <Stskeeps> dp, where? :P
Nov 18 21:00:56 <qwerty12_N800> >.<
Nov 18 21:01:00 <Stskeeps> as in blog, not deep penetration, qwerty12_N800
Nov 18 21:01:00 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 18 21:01:01 <qwerty12_N800> :P
Nov 18 21:01:05 <lcuk> deep?
Nov 18 21:01:07 * aquatix sees some filthy minds
Nov 18 21:01:10 <lcuk> close your browser then
Nov 18 21:01:23 <qwerty12_N800> dbl, then whatever floats your boat then lcuk :P
Nov 18 21:01:27 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles, what can i use for auto pop3 checking
Nov 18 21:01:37 <GeneralAntilles> Modest?
Nov 18 21:01:54 <disco_stu> like an applet.. just to know there is mail.. not modest downloading it
Nov 18 21:02:02 <zakkm> isnt there mnotify ?
Nov 18 21:02:10 <zakkm> applet to check pop3 ?
Nov 18 21:02:18 <zakkm> like google notifier for mac / linux.
Nov 18 21:02:33 <zakkm> disco_stu: like that?
Nov 18 21:02:37 <disco_stu> zakkm, i think that was the name
Nov 18 21:02:42 <disco_stu> i'll look for it
Nov 18 21:02:47 <zakkm> it was in uhh
Nov 18 21:02:49 <zakkm> i have extras and extras-devel.. and it was on my nokia
Nov 18 21:02:50 <zakkm> i dont know what repo it belongs to though
Nov 18 21:03:10 <yerga> GeneralAntilles, pong!
Nov 18 21:03:52 <disco_stu> zakkm, i downloaded it,  i think is in extras
Nov 18 21:04:54 <disco_stu> zakkm, thx
Nov 18 21:05:28 <disco_stu> i need to check if it is safe
Nov 18 21:06:19 <zakkm> oh i dont know, just stumpled upon it.. i like to app manager search through stuff
Nov 18 21:08:51 <disco_stu> i mean.. how it sends my info through the net
Nov 18 21:08:57 * lcuk giggles
Nov 18 21:09:27 <disco_stu> well.. see you later. i'll head to the gym
Nov 18 21:10:15 * Meiz_n810 is messing the offical ubuntu port for a while
Nov 18 21:10:55 <Stskeeps> where did you find it at?
Nov 18 21:11:14 <Meiz_n810> ports.ubuntu.com
Nov 18 21:11:45 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 18 21:11:45 <Stskeeps> debootstrapping it?
Nov 18 21:12:16 <Meiz_n810> yep
Nov 18 21:12:46 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 18 21:13:03 <Stskeeps> i guess we're safe no matter what just as long as there's a ubuntu upstream
Nov 18 21:13:12 <Stskeeps> we're not really relying on it being mojo or ubuntu
Nov 18 21:13:17 <Meiz_n810> just trying (like always)
Nov 18 21:13:31 <Stskeeps> hehe, that's what experimentation is
Nov 18 21:13:50 <Meiz_n810> yep
Nov 18 21:15:08 <Meiz_n810> but the good thing is: deblet repo can be added, and packages needed for booting can be installed
Nov 18 21:15:28 <Meiz_n810> like they can be in m-r
Nov 18 21:16:57 <Stskeeps> yeah, true
Nov 18 21:17:48 <Meiz_n810> i believe i'll get m-r back to my tablet very soon. Results of my first try with the offical ubuntu was: apt-get update fails in chroot
Nov 18 21:18:11 <Stskeeps> hmm?
Nov 18 21:18:15 <Stskeeps> what does it say?
Nov 18 21:18:31 <Stskeeps> you use install_mr or raw debootstrap? (without minbase i believe?)
Nov 18 21:18:55 <Meiz_n810> it just failed to connect
Nov 18 21:19:19 <Stskeeps> copy in resolv.conf?
Nov 18 21:19:20 <Stskeeps> to etc
Nov 18 21:20:21 <Meiz_n810> my first try was with .tgz from: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/arm/OMAP35x_EVM/
Nov 18 21:20:44 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 18 21:21:58 <Meiz_n810> now trying to debootstrap with gutsy:s script
Nov 18 21:22:21 <Meiz_n810> as suggested by persia at #ubuntu-arm
Nov 18 21:22:35 <zakkm> sounds like maemo reconstruct is getting far in progress
Nov 18 21:23:35 <Stskeeps> mm, first iteration
Nov 18 21:23:55 <Stskeeps> most frustrating, but next one is more structured
Nov 18 21:24:54 <Stskeeps> goal was to have hildon base going in 110-120mb flash, and we have, so there's reasons to go on with it
Nov 18 21:27:03 <zakkm> so it works ?
Nov 18 21:27:07 <zakkm> just not simple?
Nov 18 21:27:07 <Stskeeps> and this was without not trying too hard to strip down
Nov 18 21:27:21 <Stskeeps> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/hildon-desktop-gqviewxwd.png
Nov 18 21:27:43 <Stskeeps> it needs to be cleaned up and some functionality added on top, but yeah, it is feasible so far
Nov 18 21:27:55 <zakkm> woww
Nov 18 21:28:08 <zakkm> full hildon?
Nov 18 21:28:30 <Stskeeps> it is a hildon ui, yeah
Nov 18 21:28:32 <Stskeeps> but we still have a lot to go
Nov 18 21:28:32 <zakkm> faster than actual maemo?
Nov 18 21:28:34 <Stskeeps> systemui, mce, et
Nov 18 21:28:34 <Stskeeps> c
Nov 18 21:28:34 <zakkm> less ram usage?
Nov 18 21:28:52 <Stskeeps> faster is hard to evaluate cos our X server isn't acting perfectly yet :)
Nov 18 21:29:16 <Stskeeps> but the goal was if it was possible to build a small enough system
Nov 18 21:29:40 <Stskeeps> even if it was a minimal ubuntu base, and not some embedded system
Nov 18 21:29:40 <zakkm> that looks really nice :P
Nov 18 21:30:10 <zakkm> small enough system? like storage wise or minimal ?
Nov 18 21:30:23 <zakkm> minimal apps*
Nov 18 21:31:07 <Stskeeps> it fits in 124mb flash, there's 250 in your device
Nov 18 21:31:09 <Stskeeps> there's 300 mb of uncompressed data there
Nov 18 21:31:13 <zakkm> isnt maemo smaller?
Nov 18 21:31:56 <Stskeeps> possibly
Nov 18 21:32:00 <Stskeeps> but we haven't begun to -really- strip down yet
Nov 18 21:32:02 <Stskeeps> and this can both run LXDE, KDE, etc if you wanted it to
Nov 18 21:32:10 <Stskeeps> without having to spend years porting stuff for it
Nov 18 21:32:32 <zakkm> ill go with fluxbox ;p
Nov 18 21:32:45 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: saw http://picasaweb.google.com/mail.deweb/MaemoReconstructed?pli=1#5269966649978278514 ?
Nov 18 21:32:49 <zakkm> is there a way to mimic a rightclick?
Nov 18 21:32:58 <Stskeeps> tap and hold? :P
Nov 18 21:32:59 <zakkm> oh
Nov 18 21:33:01 <zakkm> :P
Nov 18 21:33:19 <zakkm> sounds very good then :)
Nov 18 21:34:48 <smackpotato> is it possible to mount a 16gb usb dongle on a 770
Nov 18 21:36:34 <smackpotato> do i have to load drivers, do i have to mount by hand
Nov 18 21:36:47 <zakkm> mount by hand :)
Nov 18 21:36:52 <zakkm> ( i dunno.. )
Nov 18 21:37:12 <smackpotato> hmmm
Nov 18 21:38:45 <smackpotato> I have the hardware and also host mode
Nov 18 21:39:29 <zakkm> your 770 didnt wsod yet?
Nov 18 21:39:54 <smackpotato> lol the  touch went but it wa warrenty
Nov 18 21:40:01 <smackpotato> i use  a 810 nowadays
Nov 18 21:40:07 <zakkm> my old 770 wsod within like 2 weeks of buying
Nov 18 21:40:07 <zakkm> and it came no warranty
Nov 18 21:40:31 <smackpotato> and you still buy nokia products
Nov 18 21:40:48 <zakkm> of course
Nov 18 21:40:48 <zakkm> cheap of course
Nov 18 21:40:55 <zakkm> my 800 was only $145 Canadian
Nov 18 21:40:55 <RST38h> Carman failed installing :((
Nov 18 21:41:03 <smackpotato> with karma?
Nov 18 21:41:07 <zakkm> how new of a car do you need for carman to work?
Nov 18 21:41:11 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, pastebin your log :P
Nov 18 21:41:12 <smackpotato> 80s
Nov 18 21:41:13 <zakkm> really?
Nov 18 21:41:27 <RST38h> qwerty: There was no log - App Manager just showed a message "Installation Failed"
Nov 18 21:41:31 <zakkm> im too young to own a car but it would be cool to go into other ppls cars and be like check this out :)! :D
Nov 18 21:41:32 <zakkm> app manager has a log ;p
Nov 18 21:41:32 <zakkm> in the menu at the top
Nov 18 21:41:33 <zakkm> tools - log, or something
Nov 18 21:41:37 <RST38h> The carman icon did appear in the menu but when I run carman it does not let me do anything
Nov 18 21:41:37 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, get it from the menu after that message
Nov 18 21:41:41 <smackpotato> im sure you need to buy  the bluetooth interface
Nov 18 21:41:45 <RST38h> (ok, I do not have OBD BT device)
Nov 18 21:41:51 <RST38h> will have to try reintalling
Nov 18 21:43:06 <RST38h> The ODB thingie is not necessary for Carman operation, right? I will still show maps, etc?
Nov 18 21:50:54 <GeneralAntilles> yerga, is GPLv2 acceptable for your translation?
Nov 18 21:50:54 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, yeah, I saw.
Nov 18 21:52:21 <yerga> GeneralAntilles, yes, of course.
Nov 18 21:52:30 <yerga> it was only some words
Nov 18 21:52:31 <GeneralAntilles> yerga, yeah, just making sure. ;)
Nov 18 21:52:48 <GeneralAntilles> I don't think anybody will have any issues.
Nov 18 21:53:02 <GeneralAntilles> But better to cover the bases and not end up shipping translations and having somebody object afterwards.
Nov 18 22:08:57 <lcuk> my stomach muscles are still achy from weekend :'(
Nov 18 22:09:15 <GeneralAntilles> You're so out of shape. :P
Nov 18 22:09:22 <GeneralAntilles> Go take 15 minutes and stretch
Nov 18 22:09:43 <lcuk> im a geek, out of shape is perfectly healthy condition
Nov 18 22:10:30 <lcuk> you are right though, i should really do more, perhaps with the next super tablet ill make it connect with cybernetic implants to actually force me to get up
Nov 18 22:10:31 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Nov 18 22:10:41 <GeneralAntilles> Need one of those muscle stimulators from the Matrix
Nov 18 22:11:02 <lcuk> i had a TENS machine a few years ago
Nov 18 22:11:47 <emma> There really should be a technological solution to waking up in the morning. The alarm clock doesn't really cut it for me.
Nov 18 22:11:52 <lcuk> i might have a go at making another one, but i can only get AC from the wall, it might be a bit more dangerous
Nov 18 22:11:58 <lcuk> emma, same here
Nov 18 22:12:03 <emma> What is a TENS machine?
Nov 18 22:12:18 <emma> maybe like electric shocks to get you up.
Nov 18 22:12:29 <GeneralAntilles> emma, the Jetsons has some fairly decent options. :P
Nov 18 22:12:40 <lcuk> little pads stuck on my back going to a battery pack which delivers controlled shocks
Nov 18 22:12:44 <emma> Or something like in the movies where the bed tilts up and you are in the shower.
Nov 18 22:12:45 <RST38h> Here is how Carman install fails:
Nov 18 22:12:45 <RST38h> Unpacking carman (from .../carman_0.7~beta1-8_all.deb) ...
Nov 18 22:12:45 <RST38h> Errors were encountered while processing:
Nov 18 22:12:45 <RST38h>  /var/cache/apt/archives/carmand_0.7~beta1-8_armel.deb
Nov 18 22:12:45 <RST38h> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
Nov 18 22:12:49 <RST38h> Any ideas?
Nov 18 22:12:51 <GeneralAntilles> emma, Jetsons. :)
Nov 18 22:12:51 <lcuk> emma, alarm clocks have to be random and different
Nov 18 22:12:53 <Stskeeps> RST38h: out of space?
Nov 18 22:13:25 <RST38h> Sts: nope, 40+MB free
Nov 18 22:13:25 <emma> Well an Alarm Clock does it's job. It does wake me up. The problem is getting me out of bed.
Nov 18 22:13:27 <lcuk> my missus woke me once by whispering "why is your computer doing that?"
Nov 18 22:13:45 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
Nov 18 22:13:50 <lcuk> it doesnt work if you preplan it though
Nov 18 22:13:54 <emma> Maybe something that could induce an overwhelming need to pee.
Nov 18 22:14:16 <Meiz_n810> corrupted archive?
Nov 18 22:14:25 <Stskeeps> lcuk: that'd work with me too..
Nov 18 22:14:25 <lcuk> nahhh emma,
Nov 18 22:15:04 <lcuk> do you snooze your alarm clock?
Nov 18 22:15:08 <emma> I find that on days when I can sleep in, the reason I finally do get out of bed and get going is because I gotta 'go'.
Nov 18 22:15:08 <lcuk> or do you just sleep though it
Nov 18 22:15:14 <emma> Yes, like a dozen times.
Nov 18 22:15:15 <lcuk> theres a great clock which is on a string from the ceiling
Nov 18 22:15:15 <emma> I set it for 4 am and I hit snooze until like 7 am.
Nov 18 22:15:16 <lcuk> everytime you snooze it it goes heigher
Nov 18 22:15:19 <lcuk> eventually you cant reach it
Nov 18 22:15:42 <emma> I have my alarm clock already on the other side of the room so that I have to get out of bed to go hit the snooze.
Nov 18 22:15:42 <lcuk> i just sleep through the snooze and the neighbours put up with it for 45 minutes
Nov 18 22:15:48 <lcuk> then dive back in bed :D
Nov 18 22:16:05 <emma> yes i hit the snooze then dive back in bed. Exactly.
Nov 18 22:16:25 <emma> I really hate getting up. It hurts me physically. I curse the stars each morning.
Nov 18 22:16:30 <emma> There must be some technological way to force me to just get going.
Nov 18 22:16:30 <lcuk> if i HAVE to get up, ive got crappy macnhester music really loud on computer, alarm clock mobile phone, and 2 nokias - all at once
Nov 18 22:16:30 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Nov 18 22:16:39 <GeneralAntilles> It's amazing how many times you can run across the room without ever waking up.
Nov 18 22:16:41 <lcuk> emma, its called moving to a different country with sane times for waking up
Nov 18 22:16:42 <emma> exactly.
Nov 18 22:16:54 <lcuk> i am perpectually living in the middle of the atlantic
Nov 18 22:16:54 <emma> I literally hit the snooze probably at least 10 times each morning.
Nov 18 22:17:09 <emma> each time i get back in bed and sleep ten more minutes.
Nov 18 22:17:19 <lcuk> what time do you go to sleep at/wake up at
Nov 18 22:18:17 <emma> I have to leave the house by 7 am in order to avoid paying 35 dollars for a cab. But if I do pay the 35 dollars for a cab, then I can leave the apartment at 7:30. Any later and I'm late for work.
Nov 18 22:18:39 <emma> Such is my inability to really get going in the morning that pretty much I pay 35 dollars 5 times a week.
Nov 18 22:18:43 <lcuk> so what time do you go to bed
Nov 18 22:18:48 <lcuk> (and 7am is ungodly)
Nov 18 22:19:17 <emma> Between Midnight and 2 am usually.
Nov 18 22:19:33 <emma> I have to get up at like 5:30, I have to leave the house at 7 or 7:30.
Nov 18 22:19:37 <lcuk> ok, so if you could get your boss to let you work flexi and start at 10am is that better for you?
Nov 18 22:19:46 <emma> Because I have to work at 8:00
Nov 18 22:19:58 <lcuk> or will it throw you even more - ie start sleeping even later
Nov 18 22:20:06 <emma> No not really I don't have that sort of career.
Nov 18 22:20:18 <lcuk> but if you could, would that help your waking up
Nov 18 22:20:19 <emma> I'm really my own boss but the industry such as it is, you can't keep people waiting.
Nov 18 22:20:21 <lcuk> i have no trouble waking up once i know im late
Nov 18 22:20:33 <emma> I think it might.
Nov 18 22:20:33 <emma> I think part of it is the hours. But part of it is just getting up.
Nov 18 22:20:48 <lcuk> its your body telling you you need more sleep - i bet though no matter what you cant sleep earlier
Nov 18 22:21:02 <emma> probably true.
Nov 18 22:21:03 <emma> I really can't sleep until it's time to crash.
Nov 18 22:21:17 <lcuk> yeah same here
Nov 18 22:21:17 <emma> Ive never really gone to bed until I would collapse if I didn't.
Nov 18 22:21:18 <lcuk> i get very little sleep
Nov 18 22:21:32 <lcuk> but more at weekends :)
Nov 18 22:21:44 * lcuk hibernates on a 7 day cycle
Nov 18 22:22:01 <emma> The uberman sleep schedule seems interesting to me.
Nov 18 22:22:12 <emma> heard of that?
Nov 18 22:22:36 <lcuk> nope, but google will have, sec
Nov 18 22:23:23 <emma> supposedly it's what ben franklin, and thomas edison did.
Nov 18 22:23:59 <lcuk> ahhh yes, i went through a phase of that years ago
Nov 18 22:24:09 <emma> train  your body to go into REM imediately by taking a 20 minute nap every 4 hours.
Nov 18 22:24:41 <RST38h> ~curse INDT for writing crufty installation scripts
Nov 18 22:24:41 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, INDT for writing crufty installation scripts !
Nov 18 22:26:59 <RST38h> Ok, I know why Carman install fails
Nov 18 22:27:24 <lcuk> cos you are a bikeman?
Nov 18 22:27:25 <RST38h> It fails creating subdirs under MyDocs when MyDocs is symlinked to the external memory card
Nov 18 22:27:25 <GeneralAntilles> emma, is that the one Kramer tried on Seinfeld? ;)
Nov 18 22:27:25 * RST38h is a walkman mainly
Nov 18 22:28:25 <lcuk> bbl (not napping honestly)
Nov 18 22:31:38 * GeneralAntilles jettisons lcuk out the airlock.
Nov 18 22:31:55 <lcuk> oi
Nov 18 22:32:43 <RST38h> Carman lives!
Nov 18 22:34:05 <emma> GeneralAntilles: I think he might of yes.
Nov 18 22:40:53 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, ping.
Nov 18 22:40:54 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, pong
Nov 18 22:40:56 <andre__> or peng?
Nov 18 22:41:00 <Stskeeps> wow, that's a rant on m-d
Nov 18 22:41:29 * Jaffa mutters at still being at work at 2241.
Nov 18 22:41:42 <GeneralAntilles> Ha . . .
Nov 18 22:41:43 * Stskeeps passes coffee to Jaffa
Nov 18 22:41:43 * GeneralAntilles entered 2241 into bugzilla. <_<
Nov 18 22:43:02 <Jaffa> 2340 train home. Gets in to my station usually about 20 minutes ahead of schedule (0100, rather than 0120).
Nov 18 22:43:02 <Jaffa> This is the last train home.
Nov 18 22:43:02 <qwerty12-N800> Stskeeps, i've compiled x11vnc fine :/. it's not also entirely hard to convert a package from debhelper 6 to 5 :/
Nov 18 22:43:45 <Stskeeps> mm, and i've had to go from 7 to 6 in ubuntu too
Nov 18 23:55:39 <jagernot> boxar (my audio synth) update: stereo rhythms and melody warping fx..download: http://www.poojyum.com/boxar_1.0-1_armel.deb comments welcome.
Nov 19 00:14:38 <l7> hey, does anyone know how to extract the original initfs file from the diablo image and restore it to the tablet?
Nov 19 00:15:12 <GeneralAntilles> ~flasher
Nov 19 00:15:12 <infobot> from memory, flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher
Nov 19 00:15:47 <disco_stu> l7: you did it a few days ago
Nov 19 00:15:49 <disco_stu> did you get your tablet back to work ?
Nov 19 00:16:59 <l7> yeah, i don't want to reflash the entire tablet though, just the initfs part
Nov 19 00:17:20 <l7> disco_stu: not yet, i had to go out of town for a bit so the tablet is still stuck where it is
Nov 19 00:17:38 <disco_stu> l7: the charger was working ?
Nov 19 00:17:53 <l7> still don't know, i am going to call nokia tech support later
Nov 19 00:18:31 <l7> i found out the phones i have don't have the same size charging port
Nov 19 00:18:31 <disco_stu> l7: you can always try with your tongue, remember.. lol
Nov 19 00:18:33 <l7> lol, no thanks
Nov 19 00:18:34 <disco_stu> old phones
Nov 19 00:19:10 <l7> i *think* i may be able to take the tablet into the nokia store and see if they'll help there
Nov 19 00:36:46 <l7> hrm, now i wonder whether i should mess around more in telnet mode or just try to reflash
Nov 19 00:55:11 <disco_stu> infobot: wanna play poker ?
Nov 19 00:59:22 <ron1n> herro
Nov 19 01:05:11 <l7> phew, reflashing worked
Nov 19 01:05:28 <l7> i better learn how to clone the system to sd now
Nov 19 01:05:45 <GeneralAntilles> ~boot-sd
Nov 19 01:05:45 <infobot> it has been said that boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card
Nov 19 01:05:46 <l7> heh thanks GeneralAntilles
Nov 19 01:06:39 <l7> hmm, it looks like i have full battery
Nov 19 01:06:50 <l7> so i guess the thing was charging all along
Nov 19 01:07:09 <l7> now that i put my ear to it, the charger makes a distinctive buzz-click sound
Nov 19 01:20:34 <l7> the Clone OS to SD Deb!! Boot from SD made EASY thread is a bit odd
Nov 19 01:20:48 <l7> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19639
Nov 19 01:21:07 <l7> why does he recommend different swap partition sizes based on the size of your SDHC card?
Nov 19 01:21:41 <l7> i would think you'd just want to take the optimal amount of swap based on available ram to maximize your tablet's performance
Nov 19 01:22:12 <GeneralAntilles> l7, dunno.
Nov 19 01:22:12 <GeneralAntilles> Just use the wiki page. :P
Nov 19 01:22:48 <l7> heh ok
Nov 19 01:23:43 <l7> can any old SD or SDHC card be used for booting?
Nov 19 01:24:30 <GeneralAntilles> Well, assuming it's bigger than 512MB
Nov 19 01:24:39 <GeneralAntilles> Class 6 is more desirable because of the speed.
Nov 19 01:25:01 <l7> hrm, this kind of makes me rethink my SD card buying plans
Nov 19 01:25:29 <l7> it seems like having a few smaller 2 to 4GB SD cards lying around would be handy to hold a backup system
Nov 19 01:25:33 <l7> though i guess i could buy a massive 32GB card and partition it up
Nov 19 01:25:56 <disco_stu> l7: congrats
Nov 19 01:26:38 <l7> disco_stu: thanks, i was really worrying the thing would brick
Nov 19 01:26:40 <l7> it turned out i had a full battery strangely
Nov 19 01:27:26 <l7> does your charger make a distinct sound by the way?
Nov 19 01:27:48 <l7> it seems like it will buzz-click when charging and simply buzz at a higher pitch when it's full
Nov 19 01:28:15 <l7> it buzzes at a lower pitch when the device is unplugged
Nov 19 01:29:59 <GeneralAntilles> It's probably failing
Nov 19 01:32:54 <l7> GeneralAntilles: what makes you say that?
Nov 19 01:33:41 <GeneralAntilles> They usually don't make noises when they're in good shape
Nov 19 01:33:42 <l7> hmm
Nov 19 01:35:09 <l7> i suppose it's possible the charger corrupted some data on my device and caused it the become unbootable
Nov 19 01:35:10 <GeneralAntilles> Unlikely
Nov 19 01:36:02 <lcuk> what buzzes, the psu plug or the nit itself
Nov 19 01:36:27 <l7> then the device becoming unbootable and the possibly failing charger are just a coincidence?
Nov 19 01:36:27 <l7> lcuk: the charger
Nov 19 01:36:53 <lcuk> the noise difference is under load or not, i hear it with electronics all the time
Nov 19 01:36:53 <lcuk> you say you are having a problem with it though
Nov 19 01:37:10 <l7> lcuk: i don't know if it's the charger exactly
Nov 19 01:37:45 <l7> here's the sequence of events:
Nov 19 01:37:54 <lcuk> what is happening
Nov 19 01:37:55 <lcuk> heh
Nov 19 01:38:37 <l7> the device became unbootable at some point and would always get stuck at the end of the booting  progress bar
Nov 19 01:38:46 <l7> reflashing fixed it
Nov 19 01:38:54 <l7> now i noticed the charger makes some noise when i put my ear to it
Nov 19 01:38:56 <l7> of course you have to put your ear about 2 inches away to hear it, so maybe it's always been that way
Nov 19 01:39:14 <l7> it makes a rhymthmic buzz-click when it's charging the tablet
Nov 19 01:39:19 <l7> when charging is done, it will buzz at a high pitch
Nov 19 01:39:27 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, that's bad.
Nov 19 01:39:27 <l7> when the tablet it unplugged, it seems to buzz at a slightly lower pitch
Nov 19 01:39:27 <l7> hmm
Nov 19 01:39:28 <l7> let me listen to my other nokia chargers
Nov 19 01:39:33 <l7> does anyone else's tablet charger buzz?
Nov 19 01:39:33 <lcuk> is that the only problem?
Nov 19 01:40:05 <lcuk> whats your AC voltage and how large is the brick
Nov 19 01:40:29 <lcuk> it should do it to varying degree with all electronics
Nov 19 01:42:01 <l7> hrm, let me get a ruler
Nov 19 01:42:14 <l7> hey, this is interesting: the charger buzzes when it shares an outlet with my laptop
Nov 19 01:42:14 <lcuk> heh, is it bigger than a std plug
Nov 19 01:42:19 <lcuk> or same size
Nov 19 01:42:38 <l7> but when i plug it into a wall outlet by itself, it does not buzz
Nov 19 01:42:48 <lcuk> i can hear my cellphone charger from across the room
Nov 19 01:42:59 <lcuk> practically no current draw
Nov 19 01:42:59 <l7> it's about 2 and 1/2" inches wide
Nov 19 01:43:19 <l7> 3/4 inch tall, 1 1/2" inch deep
Nov 19 01:44:04 <l7> i thought all tablet chargers should look about the same, but maybe with a different plug in europe
Nov 19 01:44:23 <lcuk> where are you?
Nov 19 01:44:25 <l7> in the US
Nov 19 01:44:45 <lcuk> ahh, im in the uk, us plugs are smaller than ours, it would make for a different design
Nov 19 01:45:08 <l7> it's too bad they don't use the same plugs around the world anyway
Nov 19 01:45:09 <lcuk> for other reasons
Nov 19 01:45:10 <l7> weird, why would the UK version get bigger chargers?
Nov 19 01:45:11 <lcuk> have you tried your other chargers
Nov 19 01:45:26 <l7> some kind of EU or UK consumer law maybe?
Nov 19 01:45:38 <l7> let me grab the phone charger
Nov 19 01:45:38 <lcuk> plug form factor can fit charger circuit within it
Nov 19 01:46:44 <lcuk> not larger though than a standard plug, but some chargers (older higher amp) are larger bricks
Nov 19 01:48:54 <SmackPotat> a lot of chargers work both on 120 or 220
Nov 19 01:48:59 <SmackPotat> voles
Nov 19 01:49:00 <l7> re
Nov 19 01:49:16 <SmackPotat> volts
Nov 19 01:49:16 <l7> okay, my phone's charger also makes a high frequency buzz
Nov 19 01:49:52 <lcuk> l7, be thankful you can still hear things, or be upset at the onset of tinnitus
Nov 19 01:50:24 <l7> heh
Nov 19 01:50:34 <lcuk> i can hear every outlet in the room, and often go round switching them off to get some p&q
Nov 19 01:51:41 <lcuk> the worst offender is our knackered old tv, its got a dodgy pot inside which squeels in a different note on different channels
Nov 19 01:51:57 <l7> one of those old picture tube TVs?
Nov 19 01:52:09 <lcuk> heh yeah :)
Nov 19 01:52:19 <l7> those things all make the most annoying whine
Nov 19 01:52:43 <lcuk> well we just confirmed you are sensitive to it
Nov 19 01:52:43 <l7> never seemed to bother my parents, but perhaps it's in a frequency range that old people can't hear
Nov 19 01:53:14 <SmackPotat> can i use a 16gb flash drive with a 770, how about a usb sound card
Nov 19 01:53:15 <l7> usb sound card??
Nov 19 01:53:25 <SmackPotat> ya a $5 one
Nov 19 01:54:04 <SmackPotat> for imputing from a fm radio
Nov 19 01:55:05 <l7> by attaching it through a usb hub i guess?
Nov 19 01:55:15 <SmackPotat> i got host mode a female femal plug and a hub
Nov 19 01:55:16 <l7> i don't think i've ever considered such a thing
Nov 19 01:55:16 <GeneralAntilles> SmackPotat, if you have drivers for it. . . .
Nov 19 01:56:06 <SmackPotat> how does that work i should load the modules from /mt/infs/lib/modules/current
Nov 19 01:56:14 <SmackPotat> ?
Nov 19 01:56:45 <l7> it probably depends on the specs of the sound card
Nov 19 01:57:11 <SmackPotat> ok
Nov 19 01:57:11 <l7> it seems unlikely to be that maemo would include many extra drivers, though maybe the deblet would
Nov 19 01:57:55 <SmackPotat> ya the files are there but it says file exists(-1) when i try to insmode
Nov 19 01:58:18 <l7> man, i have a slight ear ache after putting my ears up those chargers
Nov 19 01:58:18 <SmackPotat> could they just be placeholders
Nov 19 01:58:46 <SmackPotat> lol
Nov 19 02:03:29 <l7> messing with kernel modules is a bit beyond me
Nov 19 02:05:27 <SmackPotat> me too
Nov 19 02:08:10 <l7> hrm, i wish the printable version of the wiki pages would be a bit more streamlined
Nov 19 02:08:45 <l7> dropping the ToC would help a lot
Nov 19 02:48:06 <disco_stu> jjo: arcitelan ?
Nov 19 02:49:00 <disco_stu> guess not
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 19 02:59:57 2008