**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 19 02:59:57 2008
Nov 19 03:24:30 <Jsn0327> has a2dp been implemented on the n810 yet?
Nov 19 03:51:00 <GeneralAntilles> Does somebody unfamiliar with the maemo.org development process want to look at this and tell me whether it actually informs you about the process? https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints
Nov 19 03:53:41 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: i read the doc
Nov 19 03:53:50 <disco_stu> but as im very familiar with scrum
Nov 19 03:54:06 <disco_stu> sounds good
Nov 19 03:54:26 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I'm digging up some non-scrum-familiar friends to read through it and tell me whether it help.s
Nov 19 03:54:37 <disco_stu> right
Nov 19 03:55:18 <GeneralAntilles> I wouldn't expect them to suddenly become experts from it
Nov 19 03:55:34 <GeneralAntilles> The bugzilla stuff is probably a bit heavy for newbies
Nov 19 03:55:34 <disco_stu> of course
Nov 19 03:55:54 <GeneralAntilles> but it's not really critical to understanding the overall process.
Nov 19 03:56:23 <GeneralAntilles> This might be a useful link, actually.
Nov 19 03:56:24 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/2.18/html/bug_page.html
Nov 19 05:18:02 <Luria> is it just me or has maemo slowed down since diablo?
Nov 19 05:19:27 <Luria> im going to reflash later tonight, but i haven't really done much to my IT.
Nov 19 05:19:27 <GeneralAntilles> It's just you
Nov 19 05:19:45 <GeneralAntilles> There've been significant optimizations throughout the whole system over the past few months.
Nov 19 05:20:52 <Luria> idk, the memory footprint grows and grows.
Nov 19 05:22:28 <GeneralAntilles> Usually an install doesn't get faster as time progresses and you install more and more stuff.
Nov 19 05:24:10 <Luria> its not like i'm running apache. i haven't added any daemons. well, hopefull the reflash helps.
Nov 19 05:24:12 <zakkm> :)
Nov 19 05:24:46 <Luria> sigh, cant wait for my pandora.
Nov 19 05:25:03 <zakkm> pandora ?
Nov 19 05:25:04 <Luria> still, i like my n810 so much.
Nov 19 05:25:38 <GeneralAntilles> Luria, and the gpx menu launcher? :P
Nov 19 05:25:42 <Luria> zakkm: #openpandora
Nov 19 05:26:00 <Luria> well, itll be fast :-)
Nov 19 05:26:08 <zakkm> 430-MHz TMS320C64x+â„¢ DSP Core
Nov 19 05:26:25 <GeneralAntilles> Luria, fast doesn't mean much without software to go with it. ;)
Nov 19 05:26:41 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, look up the OMAP3530
Nov 19 05:26:46 <Luria> thats the dsp, not the cpu
Nov 19 05:27:02 <zakkm> oh right
Nov 19 05:27:02 <zakkm> 600mhz ;p
Nov 19 05:27:02 <GeneralAntilles> Luria, hopefully there'll be enough progress with Maemo Reconstructed to get it running on the Pandora by the time it ships, though.
Nov 19 05:27:03 <Luria> very similar to the beagle board
Nov 19 05:27:03 <GeneralAntilles> OMAP3 is terrifying
Nov 19 05:27:03 <GeneralAntilles> Luria, same SoC
Nov 19 05:27:12 <zakkm> how much is the pandora?
Nov 19 05:27:12 <GeneralAntilles> $379 or so
Nov 19 05:27:20 <GeneralAntilles> USD
Nov 19 05:27:20 <zakkm> oh expensive
Nov 19 05:27:20 <GeneralAntilles> But there wont be anymore available until the Spring
Nov 19 05:27:28 <Luria> $365 shipped
Nov 19 05:27:28 <zakkm> maemo reconstruct working well?
Nov 19 05:27:29 <Luria> also, 256mb ram
Nov 19 05:27:29 <zakkm> is it worth trying on my nokia ?
Nov 19 05:27:29 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, it's also the ugliest piece of hardware you've ever seen.
Nov 19 05:27:31 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, it's not quite usable yet
Nov 19 05:27:31 <zakkm> yeah it does look bad
Nov 19 05:28:06 <GeneralAntilles> It really wont offer you any advantages over regular old Maemo at this point.
Nov 19 05:28:06 <zakkm> it looks like its suppose to be a gaming system
Nov 19 05:28:14 <zakkm> what about speed improvements?
Nov 19 05:28:14 <Luria> that depends.
Nov 19 05:28:14 <zakkm> lower memory usage?
Nov 19 05:28:32 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, probably more at the moment.
Nov 19 05:28:32 <zakkm> oh
Nov 19 05:30:04 <zakkm> would be nice to have gnome and stuff ;p
Nov 19 05:30:05 <GeneralAntilles> Luria, be warned, the kernel still isn't quite up to speed for OMAP3
Nov 19 05:30:05 <GeneralAntilles> So unless OpenPandora has a shitload of patches waiting in the wings, be prepared to play with your kernel.
Nov 19 05:30:32 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, GNOME sucks on a 4" screen
Nov 19 05:30:32 <zakkm> yeah lol
Nov 19 05:30:32 <zakkm> i was thinking more resolution than screensize
Nov 19 05:30:41 <GeneralAntilles> You'll have to hit insanely small targets with the stylus.
Nov 19 05:30:41 <zakkm> im a gnome fan for desktop usage
Nov 19 05:31:03 * Luria wonders how quickly the maemo flash9 is going to get "borrowed" for pandora
Nov 19 05:31:07 <Luria> hulu on the go would be nice.
Nov 19 05:31:07 <Luria> i wish nokia would give us an omap3 IT already
Nov 19 05:31:57 <GeneralAntilles> Luria, I give it about a day.
Nov 19 05:31:57 <GeneralAntilles> I'm surprised it hasn't already, actually.
Nov 19 05:32:06 <GeneralAntilles> Luria, well, OMAP3 has only just hit production silicon this month. . . .
Nov 19 05:32:58 <zakkm> why the rush
Nov 19 05:33:44 <GeneralAntilles> Rush for?
Nov 19 05:33:49 <zakkm> a OMAP3 IT
Nov 19 05:33:50 <GeneralAntilles> Because OMAP3 is batshit insane.
Nov 19 05:33:58 <zakkm> speed?
Nov 19 05:33:59 <GeneralAntilles> Easily 2-3x the performance of OMAP2
Nov 19 05:34:25 <l7> how long should it take to complete https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card ?
Nov 19 05:34:29 <zakkm> 20min?
Nov 19 05:34:29 <l7> i guess i can stay awake that long
Nov 19 05:34:48 <GeneralAntilles> l7, copying over the data is probably the longest part
Nov 19 05:34:48 <GeneralAntilles> about 10 minutes for that
Nov 19 05:34:48 <l7> for the awesomeness of SD booting
Nov 19 05:34:48 <GeneralAntilles> 720p decoding whereas we can't even manage manage DVD quality with OMAP2
Nov 19 05:34:48 <Luria> the performance and battery life is outstanding
Nov 19 05:34:52 * Luria needs to get a beagleboard to tinker
Nov 19 05:35:12 <l7> GeneralAntilles: ah cool
Nov 19 05:35:12 <zakkm> GeneralAntilles: I do 350mb xvid's just fine though
Nov 19 05:35:12 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, also, a lot of us have been using OMAP2 tablets since January 2007
Nov 19 05:35:12 <GeneralAntilles> It's getting a little long in the tooth.
Nov 19 05:35:15 <zakkm> its not dvd quality but yeah
Nov 19 05:35:26 <zakkm> ah
Nov 19 05:35:26 * qole suggests a pandora
Nov 19 05:35:40 <zakkm> things are getting faster though ;p
Nov 19 05:35:41 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, sure, I watch movies and TV shows on my N800 all the time
Nov 19 05:35:41 <GeneralAntilles> But the quality could be better.
Nov 19 05:36:02 <zakkm> i see alot of "newest SSU is faster" on the forums
Nov 19 05:36:02 <l7> i feel it would be useful to have a backup of a vanllia install before i go messing it up by filling it up from extras
Nov 19 05:36:03 <zakkm> but 720p is huge filesize for one
Nov 19 05:36:03 <zakkm> it takes alot of storage space
Nov 19 05:36:22 <Luria> yeah, im on my third tablet.. and it doesnt feel much different from the 770
Nov 19 05:37:07 <zakkm> l7: the install-tools deb is nice :P i used that for cloning
Nov 19 05:37:07 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, sure, and the screen can't even display most of a 720p image
Nov 19 05:37:44 <GeneralAntilles> The point is mostly to illustrate exactly how insanely powerful the OMAP3 is.
Nov 19 05:37:44 <zakkm> that too ;p
Nov 19 05:37:44 <Luria> since the tablet is all interface and not crunching
Nov 19 05:37:44 <zakkm> its only 800x480 .. bitrate could be higher though i guess
Nov 19 05:38:20 <Luria> feel is important
Nov 19 05:38:20 <GeneralAntilles> Luria, actually, OMAP3 has a higher ceiling for power usage.
Nov 19 05:38:20 <zakkm> also cpu load..
Nov 19 05:38:22 <zakkm> it takes alot of cpu load to do 720p.. battery life will die
Nov 19 05:38:22 <zakkm> ;p
Nov 19 05:38:22 <GeneralAntilles> It's just that it can totally switch the CPU off while idle instead of practically switching it off. ;)
Nov 19 05:39:00 <Luria> yeah, looking forward to a hundred hour mp3 player
Nov 19 05:39:35 <l7> zakkm: there's no deb mentioned in https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card  do you mean Deblet?
Nov 19 05:39:35 <GeneralAntilles> The fscking massive battery on the Pandora helps, too.
Nov 19 05:39:35 <zakkm> no
Nov 19 05:39:39 <zakkm> install-deb or install-tools
Nov 19 05:39:39 <zakkm> onesec l7
Nov 19 05:39:39 <Luria> yes :-)
Nov 19 05:39:43 <l7> oh, so there's another way to do this
Nov 19 05:39:44 <zakkm> http://tablethacker.com/wp/?p=12
Nov 19 05:39:46 <zakkm> you just install deb.. in maemo ;p and then it does everything for you
Nov 19 05:39:46 <zakkm> copying and stuff, bootloader ;p;
Nov 19 05:39:46 <zakkm> okay so its lazy but yes :)
Nov 19 05:39:46 <Luria> i've been looking for the modern equivalent to a hp200lx for a long time
Nov 19 05:39:55 <zakkm> l7: read that page :P
Nov 19 05:39:56 <Luria> i have hope for pandora
Nov 19 05:39:56 <zakkm> n810 looks alot nicer than the pandora :P
Nov 19 05:40:15 <l7> zakkm: oh this is the weird one that varies your swap size according to SD card dize
Nov 19 05:40:15 <l7> size
Nov 19 05:40:17 <Luria> (not as a pda, but a long life computer in clamshell)
Nov 19 05:40:25 <zakkm> l7: you know how to shrink swap partition dont you? :P
Nov 19 05:40:25 <qole> I'm excited to see the real world reviews of the Pandora.
Nov 19 05:40:49 <l7> still, it sounds neat if it doesn't require any work aside from opening the deb
Nov 19 05:40:49 <zakkm> or even delete and raise the other
Nov 19 05:41:26 <zakkm> it works though and doesnt brick ;p
Nov 19 05:41:26 <l7> zakkm: not really
Nov 19 05:41:27 <zakkm> 2gb only made 128mb swap ;p
Nov 19 05:41:27 <GeneralAntilles> qole, I'm exciting to see Karel lose it when he finds out exactly the kind and quality of software he's going to get out of the box.
Nov 19 05:41:44 <zakkm> oh i have 4gb card.. so 256mb swap ;p
Nov 19 05:41:45 <l7> zakkm: oh i mean i guess you can change partition size after it's done
Nov 19 05:41:45 <qole> haha...true
Nov 19 05:41:45 <zakkm> it works though, so whatever :P
Nov 19 05:41:45 <zakkm> its not like swap gets wasted
Nov 19 05:41:45 <GeneralAntilles> More than 128MB of swap is likely to actually reduce performance
Nov 19 05:41:45 <Luria> im ok with an ncurses ui :-)
Nov 19 05:41:45 <qole> all hacker-quality stuff
Nov 19 05:41:46 <GeneralAntilles> I'm not sure why penguinbait thought more swap was a good idea.
Nov 19 05:41:46 <zakkm> whats the swapiness at?
Nov 19 05:41:48 <zakkm> in maemo?
Nov 19 05:42:20 <zakkm> vm.swapiness
Nov 19 05:42:24 <Luria> hows deblet coming along?
Nov 19 05:43:27 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, 0
Nov 19 05:43:27 <l7> zakkm: is the source for that deb available?
Nov 19 05:43:27 <qole> I don't know anything about Angstrom, I should read up on it
Nov 19 05:43:36 <GeneralAntilles> qole, he's got it good with all of Maemo's UI to bitch about
Nov 19 05:43:36 <zakkm> l7: no idea, i just saw the blog post and installed ;p
Nov 19 05:43:36 <GeneralAntilles> He's gonna get this out of the box with the Pandora: http://archive.gp2x.de/cfiles/screenshots/gmenu2x.png
Nov 19 05:43:36 <l7> heh
Nov 19 05:44:19 <l7> man, i hate it when my browser tries to display a deb file
Nov 19 05:44:19 <Luria> i love how ubuntu dropped power and picked up arm
Nov 19 05:44:52 <Luria> that was very apple of them.
Nov 19 05:44:52 <GeneralAntilles> Luria, well, if you look at the numbers. ;)
Nov 19 05:44:52 <zakkm> dropped powerpc?
Nov 19 05:44:52 <Luria> s/power/ppc
Nov 19 05:45:00 <zakkm> oh
Nov 19 05:45:01 * zakkm was wondering what power was ;p
Nov 19 05:45:01 <GeneralAntilles> ARM _is_ the most popular architecture on the planet
Nov 19 05:45:01 <GeneralAntilles> By several orders of magnitude.
Nov 19 05:45:01 <Luria> yes, power pc, not power
Nov 19 05:45:01 <zakkm> no way.. xbox's use ppc :)
Nov 19 05:45:10 <zakkm> know how many people have one :D
Nov 19 05:45:10 <l7> hrm, didn't know that
Nov 19 05:45:27 <GeneralAntilles> l7, all current consoles are PPC, interestingly.
Nov 19 05:45:27 <qole> GeneralAntilles, are you serious about that menu?
Nov 19 05:45:29 <GeneralAntilles> qole, yeah.
Nov 19 05:45:29 <GeneralAntilles> They probably have SOME improvements in store for the Pandora release
Nov 19 05:45:30 <qole> just...wow
Nov 19 05:45:30 <l7> GeneralAntilles: oh yeah, now i remember that the Gamecube was PPC
Nov 19 05:45:48 <GeneralAntilles> but that's what it looked like on the GP32x
Nov 19 05:45:48 <zakkm> the xbox 360 is a tricore powerpc  ..
Nov 19 05:45:48 <GeneralAntilles> l7, as is the Wii.
Nov 19 05:46:45 <zakkm> powerpc as a desktop is dead, not the architecture though ;p
Nov 19 05:46:45 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, it's not nearly as powerful as it sounds
Nov 19 05:46:45 <l7> i'm so out of it, i haven't played with any of the shiny new consoles
Nov 19 05:46:49 <zakkm> i know
Nov 19 05:46:50 <zakkm> but its still popular :P
Nov 19 05:46:50 <GeneralAntilles> very little cache, only one process per core
Nov 19 05:46:50 <zakkm> made it sound like ppc was dead
Nov 19 05:46:50 <zakkm> :P
Nov 19 05:46:52 <GeneralAntilles> Anyway, console sales don't even come close to ARM sales.
Nov 19 05:46:52 <Luria> im thinking of buying an old POWER4 box for shits und giggles
Nov 19 05:47:00 <l7> why do they use PPC on consoles anyway?
Nov 19 05:47:00 <GeneralAntilles> It's a fairly elegant architecture.
Nov 19 05:47:39 <l7> is it that much faster for gaming?
Nov 19 05:47:39 <zakkm> yeah but someone was like apple dropped powerpc, now ubuntu did.. made it seem like it was going dead ;p
Nov 19 05:47:40 <zakkm> its probably stable ;p
Nov 19 05:47:41 <GeneralAntilles> l7, consoles have the advantage of not having to worry about legacy compatibility.
Nov 19 05:47:41 <Luria> thats not what said
Nov 19 05:47:50 <Luria> damn n810 keyboard
Nov 19 05:47:50 <zakkm> hard to emulate :)
Nov 19 05:47:53 <zakkm> lol
Nov 19 05:48:08 <zakkm> :D
Nov 19 05:48:08 <l7> hmm
Nov 19 05:48:21 <GeneralAntilles> The computing world would totally not be using x86 if Intel didn't have so much money behind it and there weren't 30 years of legacy behind it.
Nov 19 05:48:44 <zakkm> x86_64! :D
Nov 19 05:48:44 <l7> that reminds me, the original xbox was x86 based
Nov 19 05:48:50 <l7> i think it was related to the fact that MS wanted to throw something together quickly
Nov 19 05:49:06 <GeneralAntilles> It was basically an off-the-shelf Celeron box.
Nov 19 05:49:06 <GeneralAntilles> Right
Nov 19 05:49:06 <Luria> its not intel's fault
Nov 19 05:49:07 <zakkm> wait, its x86?
Nov 19 05:49:52 <GeneralAntilles> They also lost shitloads of money on it. ;)
Nov 19 05:49:52 <zakkm> wouldnt that make a ncie x86 server then?
Nov 19 05:49:52 <l7> heh
Nov 19 05:49:52 <Luria> they've tried killing x86 twice
Nov 19 05:50:29 <Luria> and boy did it cost 'em
Nov 19 05:50:29 <l7> that's why so many people like to hack the xbox i guess
Nov 19 05:51:09 <l7> kinda wish i bought one for media center use now
Nov 19 05:51:27 <GeneralAntilles> l7, ebay!
Nov 19 05:51:27 <l7> heh
Nov 19 05:51:27 <GeneralAntilles> They're super cheap these days.
Nov 19 05:51:44 <zakkm> ebay....
Nov 19 05:51:44 <zakkm> junk yards :D
Nov 19 05:51:44 <GeneralAntilles> You can probably get in for about $100-$150 with software hacks.
Nov 19 05:51:48 <Luria> ebay ftw
Nov 19 05:51:48 <GeneralAntilles> and they're fantastic media centers
Nov 19 05:51:48 <l7> that's not bad
Nov 19 05:51:56 <GeneralAntilles> 'course, for that price you should be a real Linux hacker and get a Beagle Board. ;)
Nov 19 05:51:57 <l7> maybe upgrade the hard drive and it the other parts should last a long time
Nov 19 05:51:57 <Luria> i got a as/400 for fun... $95 shipped
Nov 19 05:52:05 <l7> ah, Beagle Boards are probably too technical and time consuming for me
Nov 19 05:52:06 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, that's a project
Nov 19 05:52:06 <GeneralAntilles> The Xbox has fairly mature software and tools.
Nov 19 05:52:14 <zakkm> beagle board is that really small arm motherboard right?
Nov 19 05:52:14 <l7> n800's and my linux box are enough project for me right now :)
Nov 19 05:52:23 <GeneralAntilles> Weekend thing as opposed to every weekend until the Beagle goes up in smoke. ;)
Nov 19 05:52:23 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, it's a Pandora without the case.
Nov 19 05:53:58 <zakkm> wow its late here ( 12:52AM )
Nov 19 05:53:58 <l7> it's a little ironic how microsoft invented such a nice open source platform
Nov 19 05:54:17 <l7> i think cory doctorow called it taking advantage of some else's failed business model to make a cool project
Nov 19 06:44:03 <RST38h> ~seen handful
Nov 19 06:44:03 <infobot> handful <n=marceloe@200.184.118.132> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 46d 10h 13m 36s ago, saying: 'RST38h: hail! :)'.
Nov 19 06:44:03 <RST38h> heh
Nov 19 06:44:11 <RST38h> ~seen etrunko
Nov 19 06:44:12 <infobot> etrunko <n=edulima@200.184.118.132> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 14d 11h 7m 9s ago, saying: ':)'.
Nov 19 06:44:12 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, #canola is usually a good bet
Nov 19 06:44:12 <RST38h> ah
Nov 19 06:44:13 <GeneralAntilles> Or email. . . .
Nov 19 06:44:13 <GeneralAntilles> But it's 4 in the morning there.
Nov 19 06:44:47 <RST38h> Too bad...Oh well, will come a bit later
Nov 19 06:44:48 <RST38h> 'cause I found why Carman installation failed and it is not pretty
Nov 19 06:45:25 <RST38h> when ~MyDocs is symlinked, Carman scripts can't install directories in it
Nov 19 06:46:23 <GeneralAntilles> Sounds like a Nokia bug. :P
Nov 19 06:48:42 <RST38h> well, if you consider these guys working on Canola/Carman as nokians... =)
Nov 19 06:49:25 <RST38h> Sorry, I used a wrong word - not install, MAKE directories
Nov 19 06:49:55 <GeneralAntilles> Symlinking MyDocs is just a nasty plan all around.
Nov 19 06:50:16 <RST38h> well, there are no alternatives that I know of
Nov 19 06:50:16 <GeneralAntilles> ~boot-sd
Nov 19 06:50:16 <infobot> well, boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card
Nov 19 06:50:31 <RST38h> No, thanks, as it is way more invasive
Nov 19 06:50:35 <GeneralAntilles> It doesn't break things
Nov 19 06:51:03 <RST38h> until you do an update
Nov 19 06:51:03 <GeneralAntilles> It speeds things up, gives you a bootable backup, and also increases application install space.
Nov 19 06:51:18 <GeneralAntilles> Meh, just reflash the initfs
Nov 19 06:51:18 <GeneralAntilles> Takes 5 minutes.
Nov 19 06:51:19 <RST38h> although yes, it does inscrease app install space
Nov 19 06:53:08 <RST38h> Anyways, I do not think failure to mkdir stuff in symlinked MyDocs is a system level problem. It is probably some minor glitch in the Carman postinst script
Nov 19 06:54:06 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, my point was that it's the same bug that Nokia had with the preinstalled documentation postinst that messed up the last round of SSU updates.
Nov 19 06:54:06 <GeneralAntilles> Not that it was a platform issue.
Nov 19 06:59:28 <hahlobit> when you pull something with wget, filemanager doesn't seem to find it?
Nov 19 06:59:38 <GeneralAntilles> Depends on where you pull it to. . . .
Nov 19 07:00:15 <hahlobit> just opening terminal
Nov 19 07:00:39 <hahlobit> like every other linux
Nov 19 07:01:54 <RST38h> General: Weirdly, the last SSU worked for me
Nov 19 07:01:54 <hahlobit> had to cp it to some Mydocs before it findw
Nov 19 07:02:01 <hahlobit> finds it
Nov 19 07:06:28 <hahlobit> is there any better filemagers for os2008?
Nov 19 07:06:32 <GeneralAntilles> emelfm2
Nov 19 07:06:34 <GeneralAntilles> xterm
Nov 19 07:07:49 <l7> anyone tried kingston vs transcend microsd cards on their tablets yet?
Nov 19 07:08:41 <l7> there's a bunch of 4gb microsd cards for 9 or 10 bucks on newegg
Nov 19 07:11:12 <l7> "The thing almost melted in my PC it got so hot. I was using the micro adapter and inserted it into the side of my computer's SD reader when I noticed it wasn't recognizing with Windows. When I tried to take it back out of the PC it nearly seared my fingertips. It also wouldn't work with my new Windows Mobile 6.1 phone."
Nov 19 07:11:46 <l7> scary to imagine this one melting down in a tablet
Nov 19 07:16:53 <hahlobit> emelfm2 seems better thanks
Nov 19 07:45:53 <zetheroo1> is there any user-friendly documentation available for getting Maemo Mapper and flite to work together?
Nov 19 08:18:00 <Stskeeps> http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24606 <- i'm not sure if the second post is spam or an awesome reply :P
Nov 19 08:33:11 <johnx> Stskeeps, I think it's spam but somehow it's still awesome
Nov 19 08:36:22 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 19 08:37:36 * Stskeeps got a mojo bootstrapped on the beagleboard yesterday
Nov 19 08:38:05 <GeneralAntilles> Oh good lord
Nov 19 08:38:07 <GeneralAntilles> I've got 4 wiki edits queued and the damn server goes down.
Nov 19 08:38:08 <Stskeeps> heh
Nov 19 08:38:08 <Stskeeps> i plan to do a simple solution with a irc bot responding to some commands to grab bzr/svn and compile it, johnx
Nov 19 08:38:31 <Stskeeps> and then have different targets such as x86/armv5el-mojo/armv5el-vfp-mojo, and so on
Nov 19 08:38:35 <Stskeeps> in different chroots with diff parameters
Nov 19 08:45:14 <Stskeeps> so we'll have a service set up that'll build the various versions for all targets :P
Nov 19 08:45:31 <hahlobit> about using xterm as a file manager, how to send somefile with bluetooth to somedevice?
Nov 19 08:46:41 <tekojo> GeneralAntilles: What wiki down?
Nov 19 08:46:41 <GeneralAntilles> tekojo, it's back up.
Nov 19 08:47:02 <tekojo> GeneralAntilles: This just proves I am slow :-)
Nov 19 08:54:26 <hahlobit> what about man pages, haven't found them yet?
Nov 19 08:54:26 <GeneralAntilles> Purged
Nov 19 08:54:29 <GeneralAntilles> They're mostly available on maemo.org
Nov 19 08:54:31 <GeneralAntilles> ~manpages
Nov 19 08:54:32 <infobot> You can find manpages online at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi . You can find here manpages appropriate for your unix or Linux distribution
Nov 19 08:54:36 <GeneralAntilles> ~maemo-man
Nov 19 08:54:37 <infobot> from memory, maemo-man is http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/
Nov 19 08:57:41 <hahlobit> ok used to use them in every other unix
Nov 19 08:57:45 <GeneralAntilles> Remember, we're limited on storage space
Nov 19 08:57:47 <GeneralAntilles> Having 20MB of manpages isn't exactly ideal. :)
Nov 19 08:59:21 <hahlobit> true
Nov 19 09:00:32 <hahlobit> apps just keep telling rtfm :) don't run as root just make it suid so we can drop priviledges, please read man page!
Nov 19 09:03:36 <GeneralAntilles> Karma still stuck. . . .
Nov 19 09:10:34 <johnx> Stskeeps, we can also add hooks to bzr I think
Nov 19 09:10:34 <johnx> build on upload or somesuch
Nov 19 09:10:34 <johnx> s/upload/commit/
Nov 19 09:10:34 <infobot> johnx meant: build on commit or somesuch
Nov 19 09:10:34 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Nah, there is just this code: if (user->username == 'generalantilles') die();
Nov 19 09:10:41 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, I don't blame you, gotta keep the status quo intact. :D
Nov 19 09:11:28 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: It still takes at least a day to be sure that the problem isn't fixed by the upgrade.
Nov 19 09:12:03 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, if it keeps up I'm gonna have to put together one of these https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Bugzilla_report_card that'll read "X-Fade's report card" and fail you in a bunch of made up subjects for a bunch of arbitrary and trivial reasons. :P
Nov 19 09:12:14 <X-Fade> Heh..
Nov 19 09:13:24 <GeneralAntilles> Knitting - he hasn't made maemo.org sweaters as tribute to the Council yet - F-
Nov 19 09:13:37 <johnx> non-zero number of dashes in user name
Nov 19 09:14:06 <Myrtti> knitting? what where?
Nov 19 09:14:17 <GeneralAntilles> ~nickometer X-Fade
Nov 19 09:14:23 <infobot> 'X-Fade' is 19.000% lame, generalantilles
Nov 19 09:14:28 <Myrtti> if someone makes a knitting pattern software for maemo that saves the patterns in KnitML, I'll make mittens for him/her.
Nov 19 09:14:55 <GeneralAntilles> Nick isn't lame enough - F-
Nov 19 09:14:56 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Not too bad ;)
Nov 19 09:14:56 <Myrtti> the touch screen in maemo and the usecases would be excellent.
Nov 19 09:15:21 <GeneralAntilles> My sister has a sewing machine that hooks up to a Gameboy for patterns.
Nov 19 09:15:31 <Myrtti> possibly also bake a selection of seven Finnish traditional cookies and send over courier mail
Nov 19 09:15:58 <Myrtti> GeneralAntilles: DS or older?
Nov 19 09:16:37 <GeneralAntilles> The original Advance, I think.
Nov 19 09:16:37 <Myrtti> (please, DS, I have one)
Nov 19 09:16:37 <Myrtti> damnit
Nov 19 09:16:46 <Stskeeps> johnx: also a possibility i guess
Nov 19 09:16:54 <GeneralAntilles> http://pocketgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/singer-izek-gameboy-controlled-sewing.html
Nov 19 09:17:16 <Myrtti> again. The touch screen with stylus would make maemo tablets / Nintendo DS a perfect thing for knitting patterns
Nov 19 09:18:29 <Myrtti> I guess I'll have to start lobbing that idea again for the applicants of Finnish Summercode
Nov 19 09:18:47 <johnx> i've set it up before with svn
Nov 19 09:24:19 <Stskeeps> johnx: yeah, but bzr is a bit different creature:)
Nov 19 09:25:44 <johnx> I gathered that. it has to have commit hooks though, right
Nov 19 09:25:45 <Stskeeps> not sure really, but haven't looked that close
Nov 19 09:26:50 <Stskeeps> ok, im off to the bus
Nov 19 09:27:19 <Meiz_n810> Offical ubuntu midori port seems to work better than mojos one.. Newer version..
Nov 19 09:28:51 <Meiz_n810> they will soon compile kernel for omap2
Nov 19 09:31:51 <johnx> well that's really fast turnaround time after their announcement
Nov 19 09:57:07 <Meiz_n810> How can i set priority of repos?
Nov 19 09:59:04 <Meiz_n810> just add apt.prefrences to apt.conf.d?
Nov 19 10:11:28 <Guest2113_541> hi
Nov 19 10:11:37 <Guest2113_541> how to get targus mouse to work?
Nov 19 10:11:55 <Guest2113_541> i get it work but in some reasons its works too slooooooow
Nov 19 10:11:57 <Guest2113_541> its normal? 0_0
Nov 19 10:12:07 <Guest2113_541> hello? any buddy?
Nov 19 10:12:22 <Guest2113_541> \quit
Nov 19 10:31:02 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: how do you mean "work better"?
Nov 19 10:32:46 <Meiz_n810> settings dialog works in hildon, and it actually works, mojos midori stalled when i tried last time
Nov 19 10:36:26 <Stskeeps> settings panel work with M-R packages or?
Nov 19 10:48:53 <johnx> Meiz_n810, set priority in /etc/apt/preferences
Nov 19 10:51:00 <Meiz_n810> thanks
Nov 19 10:51:13 <johnx> there should be an example already :) in fact your probably just want to reverse the current priorities
Nov 19 10:53:10 <Myrtti> O NOES! my long thumb fingernail I've used as a stylus chipped! how can I live now?! oh wait. nvm.
Nov 19 10:53:15 <johnx> start using more thumb friendly software :)
Nov 19 10:53:32 <towo> Oh noes, a Myrtti here.
Nov 19 10:53:33 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 19 10:53:33 <Stskeeps> Myrtti: glue on a stylus tip
Nov 19 10:53:33 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 19 10:53:35 <Myrtti> how can I irc now with no long thumbnails in either of the hands
Nov 19 10:53:35 <Myrtti> eep.
Nov 19 10:53:43 * Myrtti huggles towo 
Nov 19 10:54:02 <towo> Myrtti: Use a bluetooth keyboard.
Nov 19 10:54:04 <GeneralAntilles> Same way I IRC. . . .
Nov 19 10:54:28 <GeneralAntilles> With the finger keyboard
Nov 19 10:54:33 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Havaplayer is incoming.
Nov 19 10:54:33 <Myrtti> GeneralAntilles: it's unintuitive for me... I've tried, several times
Nov 19 10:54:37 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, is it really?
Nov 19 10:54:57 <GeneralAntilles> I harassed their support again yesterday
Nov 19 10:54:58 <GeneralAntilles> Fast turnaround
Nov 19 10:55:06 <Myrtti> with irssi and lots of channels it's really cumbersome
Nov 19 10:55:17 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Well, I just sent out the invitation after I got a request.
Nov 19 10:56:23 <GeneralAntilles> I don't think the first request actually went anywhere productive.
Nov 19 10:56:32 <GeneralAntilles> Same thing seemed to happen when I tried going through Boingo's public support channel.
Nov 19 10:57:07 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: karel : "Angstroem on NAND and Ubuntu for download on SD. VLC Player likely to be preinstalled. Applications available as self-contained ZIP archives. There is now talk of OpenPandora becoming an Ubuntu Partner."
Nov 19 10:57:07 <Stskeeps> how is this any different than maemo? :P
Nov 19 10:57:09 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, he lives in a delusional world.
Nov 19 10:57:26 <Stskeeps> Maemo on NAND, ubuntu for download on SD, VLC able to be installed, applications as debs, ..
Nov 19 10:58:22 <johnx> maemo on pandora is like the best of all possible worlds
Nov 19 10:59:00 <johnx> in terms of potential software environments for the pandora
Nov 19 10:59:26 <GeneralAntilles> Good lord . . . I believe Netflix on Xbox may very well end me.
Nov 19 10:59:40 <johnx> because of it not working or because of it working?
Nov 19 10:59:40 <GeneralAntilles> Because it's like regular Netflix but without the mailman delay. <_<
Nov 19 11:00:07 * X-Fade wonders if he should approve a project on garage named 'wtf'.
Nov 19 11:00:17 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, well, what's the description? :D
Nov 19 11:00:26 <X-Fade> he Comicviewer (which is, due to a lack of a better name, named wtf) is/will be a small application to view Comic Book Archives in standard .cbr and .cbz container files, optimized for maemo devices.
Nov 19 11:00:26 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, it works great, actually.
Nov 19 11:00:34 <RST38h> johnx: Blasphemy!
Nov 19 11:01:01 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: is the latest mer-installer in svn?
Nov 19 11:01:01 <RST38h> johnx: Karel will murder you with an ice pick
Nov 19 11:01:05 <GeneralAntilles> A rusty ice pick
Nov 19 11:01:14 <RST38h> General: That depends on how often he uses his
Nov 19 11:01:53 <johnx> RST38h, heh. just wait, I intend to try and get everyone behind it as the primary development platform too :)
Nov 19 11:01:53 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, probably often, and it's probably not cleaned between uses.
Nov 19 11:02:11 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: think so
Nov 19 11:02:11 <X-Fade> So the description isn't offensive :)
Nov 19 11:02:28 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, maybe an intermediate email telling him he can't change it later would be appropriate.
Nov 19 11:02:45 <RST38h> General: He licks it.
Nov 19 11:03:02 <GeneralAntilles> I mean, I could care less if it were called "Fuck all tablets"
Nov 19 11:03:06 <RST38h> johnx: I do suspect you mean the upper level and not the system level?
Nov 19 11:03:06 <GeneralAntilles> But it just isn't a very inspired name. . . .
Nov 19 11:03:20 <RST38h> Comic readers are hardly inspiring...
Nov 19 11:03:20 <johnx> RST38h, right. think m-r :)
Nov 19 11:03:24 <Stskeeps> mer ;)
Nov 19 11:03:24 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 19 11:03:24 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, you just haven't seen any good ones yet. :P
Nov 19 11:03:24 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, I like Mer.
Nov 19 11:03:42 <RST38h> Never needed one, really...
Nov 19 11:04:13 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe talking about Maemo Reconstructed -> m-r -> Mer to make the (well, a) connection for people.
Nov 19 11:04:50 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, yeah, neither have I come to think of it. . . .
Nov 19 11:05:29 <RST38h> Golemaemo
Nov 19 11:05:30 <johnx> RST38h, GeneralAntilles spend more time on trains and you'll want a comic reader :P
Nov 19 11:05:31 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: MAemo Reconstructed => Maer => Mær => bitch, in danish
Nov 19 11:05:31 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 19 11:05:31 <RST38h> johnx: I spend 3 hours a day in trains and buses
Nov 19 11:05:36 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 19 11:05:45 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, I'd probably just stick to FBReader and/or 3G stuff like web and IRC.
Nov 19 11:05:46 <johnx> what do you *do* in that time? O_o
Nov 19 11:06:12 <RST38h> johnx: Just don't understand why a normal text-based book is not sufficient
Nov 19 11:06:13 <RST38h> johnx: Books. Mail. Web. IRC =)
Nov 19 11:07:01 <johnx> ah, those last 3 aren't an option without a reasonable data plan (or a lot more income :P )
Nov 19 11:07:01 <johnx> for me at least
Nov 19 11:07:06 <RST38h> johnx: Remember, it is .RU
Nov 19 11:07:24 <johnx> ok, you'll have to make a better sales pitch to get me to move though :P
Nov 19 11:07:24 <RST38h> johnx: $.15/MB of GPRS traffic
Nov 19 11:08:09 <RST38h> johnx: this is without any special data plan (but with heavy internet usage option added for ~$3/month)
Nov 19 11:09:06 <RST38h> Rather slow though, given that my E70 has no EDGE and MTS has no 3G yet
Nov 19 11:09:15 <johnx> next time I'm up to renew my phone contract I'll look again
Nov 19 11:09:57 <johnx> for now I'm locked in to something with just IRDA or clunky USB for tethering
Nov 19 11:30:09 <hahlobit> how much that maemo-launcher should eat  memory? mine takes 29% must be something wrong
Nov 19 11:30:28 <johnx> sounds right
Nov 19 11:30:43 <hahlobit> that much
Nov 19 11:30:43 <johnx> a lot of stuff is actually running inside the maemo-launcher process
Nov 19 11:31:04 <johnx> desktop applets, plugins, etc
Nov 19 11:31:05 <johnx> also, remember that it's not really "29%"
Nov 19 11:31:51 <johnx> a lot of that are shared libraries that other apps are using as well
Nov 19 11:32:28 <hahlobit> ok thanks
Nov 19 11:32:58 <hahlobit> i try to close it but bounced back on
Nov 19 11:33:32 <johnx> if you actually stopped it your tablet would stop really working
Nov 19 11:33:49 <johnx> until you rebooted of course
Nov 19 11:33:58 <hahlobit> does deblet has it?
Nov 19 11:34:15 <johnx> no actually
Nov 19 11:35:06 <johnx> it's mainly used for saving memory if you're running hildon-desktop, but it's kind of a pain to make it work outside of maemo
Nov 19 11:35:27 <hahlobit> you have more free memory on deblet then?
Nov 19 11:35:44 <johnx> not really. no
Nov 19 11:35:44 <X-Fade> johnx: I think it is more for speeding up application start.
Nov 19 11:36:01 <johnx> but it depends on what desktop you're running
Nov 19 11:36:05 <X-Fade> johnx: As you don't have to load all the libs anymore.
Nov 19 11:36:16 <johnx> X-Fade, ah, ok. must have misremembered
Nov 19 11:36:17 <hahlobit> can we add ram to tablets?
Nov 19 11:36:56 <johnx> hahlobit, no
Nov 19 11:36:56 <hahlobit> ok pity
Nov 19 11:36:57 <johnx> back later
Nov 19 11:40:04 <hahlobit> what about browserd does it have to run all the time?
Nov 19 11:41:48 <GAN800> Speeds up browser startup
Nov 19 11:42:10 <GAN800> and will eventually provide a browser engine for other applications
Nov 19 11:42:10 <GAN800> So will end up saving RAM in the long run
Nov 19 11:42:12 <GAN800> hahlobit, things are the way they are for a reason. :)
Nov 19 11:42:43 <GAN800> Nokia doesn'r just arbitrarily do things to waste RAM.
Nov 19 11:45:12 <hahlobit> GAN800: ok nokia is more ram friendly then
Nov 19 11:45:33 <suihkulokki> maemo-launcher saves ram and start apps faster. however, as a consequence it makes it look like all the applications running are instances of maemo-launcher
Nov 19 11:49:10 <hahlobit> so one cannot tune tablets much better?
Nov 19 11:49:48 <GAN800> Well, you could tune them for a different set of requirements
Nov 19 11:49:53 <GAN800> But Nokia has done a pretty good job of tuning for the 'mobile' use case.
Nov 19 11:50:24 <hahlobit> ok
Nov 19 11:51:22 <hahlobit> just use to speed up operating systems
Nov 19 11:53:03 <RST38h> hahlobit: What do you mean by tune?
Nov 19 12:03:41 <Guysoft42> hey, if i want to develop for maemo, in linux. what toolkits do i need?
Nov 19 12:03:43 <RST38h> Maemo SDK
Nov 19 12:22:34 <Guysoft42> RST38h, where can i get the sdk?
Nov 19 12:23:29 <disco_stu> ~sdk
Nov 19 12:23:29 <infobot> Software Development Kit
Nov 19 12:24:04 <disco_stu> ~scratchbox
Nov 19 12:24:04 <infobot> scratchbox is probably a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/
Nov 19 12:24:17 <zetheroo1> is there any user-friendly documentation available for getting Maemo Mapper and flite to work together?
Nov 19 12:24:17 <johnx> errr...not really though
Nov 19 12:25:15 <disco_stu> it should work with both installed
Nov 19 12:25:15 <johnx> maemo sdk is here: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/
Nov 19 12:25:16 <johnx> ~maemo-sdk
Nov 19 12:25:35 <infobot> hmm... maemo-sdk is the development environment for the Nokia Internet Tablets, found here: http://maemo.org/development/
Nov 19 12:25:35 <johnx> well, and there
Nov 19 12:25:54 <zetheroo1> disco_stu : got both installed on my N800 and N810 ... and it does not work on either one
Nov 19 12:27:01 <disco_stu> in maemo-mapper configuration you have to  enable flite
Nov 19 12:27:06 <zetheroo1> disco_stu: yep, done that as well in both machines
Nov 19 12:27:17 <zetheroo1> and in both machines flite works in the Terminal
Nov 19 12:29:41 <zetheroo1> I also started a thread in the Maemo Mapper site ... but nobody is answering there either ... :(
Nov 19 12:30:12 <disco_stu> well.. i cant help you further
Nov 19 12:30:35 <zetheroo1> disco_stu: have you actually got it working yourself?
Nov 19 12:31:58 <disco_stu> no.. no gps
Nov 19 12:32:08 <Guysoft42> oh , another silly question - is there a way to left click in places lice vnc?
Nov 19 12:32:25 <disco_stu> i dont use mapper that much
Nov 19 12:35:01 <zetheroo1> disco_stu: ok ...
Nov 19 13:32:54 <Stskeeps> lo meiz
Nov 19 13:33:37 <Meizirkki> hi
Nov 19 13:34:12 <Meizirkki> just installed mer and x wont start
Nov 19 13:34:38 <Meizirkki> wait, i'll give you pastebin
Nov 19 13:34:52 <Meizirkki> http://pastebin.com/d43f7add4
Nov 19 13:36:05 <Stskeeps> ln -s /dev/fb /dev/fb0 :P
Nov 19 13:36:13 <Meizirkki> :)
Nov 19 13:36:17 <Meizirkki> i forgot this time
Nov 19 13:36:25 * Stskeeps is setting up a build beagleboard
Nov 19 13:36:58 <Stskeeps> (http://beagleboard.org/)
Nov 19 13:37:15 <johnx> other way around though: ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb :)
Nov 19 13:37:20 <Meizirkki> =P
Nov 19 13:37:20 <Stskeeps> ah, yeah
Nov 19 13:37:21 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 19 13:37:34 <johnx> Stskeeps, awesome! so awesome. :D (re: the beagleboard)
Nov 19 13:38:55 <Stskeeps> johnx: we can just switch DEFAULT_DEVICE in omapfb btw :P
Nov 19 13:38:55 <Stskeeps> it's a #define
Nov 19 13:39:14 <Stskeeps> and establish some kind of branch of the git tree of the driver
Nov 19 13:40:33 <suihkulokki> or you could fix udev =)
Nov 19 13:40:34 <aquatix> ooh, maemo.org is a lot faster!
Nov 19 13:41:00 <aquatix> any idea why the small thumbs in the software section consist of larger physical images though?
Nov 19 13:41:09 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: i've yet to see a /dev/fb, but that's just me not having enough fb devices :P
Nov 19 13:41:44 <X-Fade> aquatix: Because we don't have smaller versions.
Nov 19 13:41:44 <suihkulokki> it seems some other distros have it
Nov 19 13:42:10 <aquatix> X-Fade: heh, fair enough :)
Nov 19 13:42:14 <aquatix> just wondered, as it makes for longer loading times
Nov 19 13:43:35 <X-Fade> aquatix: Yeah, we need to see if we can create the smaller sizes too. Although I'd wait until the new website design is more clear.
Nov 19 13:43:36 <aquatix> ah :)
Nov 19 13:43:44 <aquatix> sounds good
Nov 19 13:43:49 <X-Fade> As maybe we won't need the small ones. Or anoter size.
Nov 19 13:44:21 <aquatix> yeah, i figure
Nov 19 13:44:29 <aquatix> i just noticed and dumped it here
Nov 19 13:45:02 <aquatix> but now i'm curious to the new design :)
Nov 19 13:45:49 <X-Fade> aquatix: Well, we will have a separate webserver serving all static files soon. So they will even be served faster.
Nov 19 13:46:17 <X-Fade> And you can still influence the new design as there is still a lot of discussion going on for that :)
Nov 19 13:46:35 <aquatix> yay
Nov 19 13:46:52 <aquatix> here or on a forum?
Nov 19 13:46:56 * aquatix votes for green on black ;)
Nov 19 13:47:06 <Stskeeps> johnx: think i'm making several build types, distcc ones too, etc
Nov 19 13:47:51 <Meizirkki> Hoe to save file in vi text editor?
Nov 19 13:47:55 <Stskeeps> :wq
Nov 19 13:47:57 <Veggen> or, omit the q if you want to continue editing.
Nov 19 13:49:44 <X-Fade> aquatix: -community and https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org#Maemo.org_Homepage_refresh
Nov 19 13:50:11 <X-Fade> aquatix: See also design drafts.
Nov 19 13:50:12 <aquatix> check, thanks
Nov 19 13:50:54 <aquatix> great drafts!
Nov 19 13:51:19 * aquatix rather likes http://samoff.maemobox.org/maemo_redesign/samoff-variation_of_HOME_03_MOD.png
Nov 19 13:52:24 <aquatix> anyways, back to work
Nov 19 14:03:21 <Meiz_n810> Offical arm-ubuntu team is close to get gnome-desktop working
Nov 19 14:03:33 <Stskeeps> i guess i should follow #u-a too
Nov 19 14:03:49 <Meiz_n810> :)
Nov 19 14:03:53 <ron1n> is a tablet distro in ubuntu's roadmap?
Nov 19 14:04:48 <Stskeeps> no clue
Nov 19 14:04:57 <Stskeeps> don't think so
Nov 19 14:04:58 <ron1n> hmm
Nov 19 14:04:58 <Stskeeps> i think maemo will accelerate past it before that really
Nov 19 14:04:58 <johnx> for the nokia n8x0? I'd guess "no" but that's part of my pessimism talking
Nov 19 14:05:15 <Stskeeps> or mer, depending on perspective
Nov 19 14:05:17 <Meiz_n810> they promised to build omap kernel... :)
Nov 19 14:05:18 <ron1n> they do have a MID project, that with an arm port
Nov 19 14:05:18 <johnx> a *lot* of things use OMAPs :P
Nov 19 14:05:22 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: yeah, but useless for tablets probably :P
Nov 19 14:05:22 <Meiz_n810> okay
Nov 19 14:05:23 <ron1n> and an omap kernel, this is looking nice and easy
Nov 19 14:05:33 <Stskeeps> ron1n: yeah, but i doubt the power conservation is so good..
Nov 19 14:05:33 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 19 14:05:33 <ron1n> heh
Nov 19 14:05:43 <ron1n> thats very true
Nov 19 14:05:56 <johnx> eh, they'll have to rework power consumption stuff unless this "always-on" idea was just a fad
Nov 19 14:06:28 <Stskeeps> always-on-when-battery-works
Nov 19 14:06:30 <ron1n> er suspend to disk
Nov 19 14:06:30 <johnx> I'm sure ARM isn't paying them to screw around
Nov 19 14:06:30 <ron1n> i mean, we're talking flash here lol
Nov 19 14:06:45 <Stskeeps> ron1n: life isn't always that easy :P
Nov 19 14:06:55 <johnx> suspend to flash would be a lot slower than suspend to disk actually
Nov 19 14:07:07 <Stskeeps> suspend to ram is better isnt it?
Nov 19 14:07:25 <ron1n> johnx, suspending to a flash swapfile is slower than suspending to a spinning disk?
Nov 19 14:07:25 <johnx> definitely, but it's still not the same as always on
Nov 19 14:07:34 <ron1n> Stskeeps, its faster, but still requires power
Nov 19 14:07:52 <johnx> ron1n, suspending to slow built in flash with a compressed filesystem is slower than suspending to a typical laptop drive
Nov 19 14:07:53 <ron1n> I see
Nov 19 14:07:58 <johnx> suspend to RAM is a fair trade off most of the time
Nov 19 14:08:52 <johnx> but it's not the same thing as being "always on, always connected"
Nov 19 14:08:56 <ron1n> do we have suspend to ram support in deblet?
Nov 19 14:09:05 <ccooke> johnx: I'd have agreed with that... until I tried the N810.
Nov 19 14:09:36 <johnx> ccooke, hmm?
Nov 19 14:10:06 <ron1n> "always on, always connected" is why I have a desktop =P, a tablet is simply an extension to that in my experience
Nov 19 14:10:18 <Stskeeps> ron1n: we'll definately have it in Mer..
Nov 19 14:10:18 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 19 14:10:22 <ron1n> awesome =]
Nov 19 14:10:39 <ccooke> johnx: "< johnx> suspend to RAM is a fair trade off most of the time" - the next line hadn't arrived here yet
Nov 19 14:10:43 <johnx> ron1n, you're not the tarket market then I bet :)
Nov 19 14:10:48 * Stskeeps ponders where he has enough space to store a repository for Mer
Nov 19 14:11:19 <johnx> it's a fair trade off, but it's not really optimal, I agree
Nov 19 14:31:23 * ron1n has become quite reliant on suspend2 for quick book times on x86
Nov 19 14:31:28 <ron1n> boot* =P
Nov 19 14:31:38 <johnx> I just leave all my stuff on
Nov 19 14:35:47 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Karma better now?
Nov 19 14:37:03 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: so control panel worked without hitch in jaunty? that's weird
Nov 19 14:38:18 * aquatix should fix suspending etc on his debian laptop
Nov 19 14:38:27 <aquatix> otoh, it boots quite quickly
Nov 19 14:38:56 <ron1n> johnx, not an option with my lust for old school tablets and gadgets on ebay =P
Nov 19 14:38:56 <johnx> heh...my only laptop is a P4 with ~10 minutes of battery life on a good day. all the rest of my mobile stuff is ARM :)
Nov 19 14:39:44 <aquatix> johnx: my laptop is constantly running from DC here
Nov 19 14:39:59 <aquatix> as i'm at work anyway
Nov 19 14:40:01 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps, i meant the midoris "Prefrences" window fits into screen (so it is possible to click Close. With mojos midori, i was unable to save settings)
Nov 19 14:40:01 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 19 14:40:07 <johnx> hmm, I guess I do leave my zaurus in suspended to RAM most of the time
Nov 19 14:41:06 <johnx> i'm not making any progress on h-i-m. I'm giving it a break for a day and I'll try python-hildon instead
Nov 19 14:41:12 <Stskeeps> alright
Nov 19 14:41:28 <Stskeeps> i'm setting up repos and build box atm
Nov 19 14:41:28 <johnx> if anyone else wants to step in I will *not* be offended :)
Nov 19 14:41:46 <Stskeeps> as we'll be getting closer to a reset to get things right
Nov 19 14:42:42 <johnx> hopefully for the most part we can just re-apply our own diffs to get moving
Nov 19 14:42:59 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 19 14:43:18 <Stskeeps> and we'll triple build for all 4-5 targets, so
Nov 19 14:43:35 <Stskeeps> so we easily can build images
Nov 19 14:43:42 <johnx> mmm...images :)
Nov 19 14:44:00 <johnx> mmm...someone else's machine doing the building :)
Nov 19 14:44:04 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 19 14:54:25 <b1ackdeath> has any one had trouble install Debian chroot tubro on there internal flash?
Nov 19 15:02:08 <matrx>  <Clint> also i have t-bone for tonight
Nov 19 15:02:27 <matrx> misfire
Nov 19 15:03:15 * aquatix <- instahungry
Nov 19 15:03:28 <johnx> misfiring t-bone? I hear it's a problem
Nov 19 15:03:57 <aquatix> yeah, there was a recall
Nov 19 15:04:12 <johnx> you just have to check the fuel mixture and spark timing
Nov 19 15:12:47 <matrx> i just did a reflash to the latest diablo, now i can't clock to 400mhz anymore even though it's listed as an available freq in sysfs, any insight?
Nov 19 15:13:53 <X-Fade> matrx: Something using the dsp?
Nov 19 15:13:53 <mgedmin> do you have any mp3 playing?
Nov 19 15:22:45 <lardman> ~lart Windows device drivers
Nov 19 15:22:45 * infobot shoots Windows device drivers in his sleep
Nov 19 15:24:08 <matrx> hrmm... nothing should be playing when i try
Nov 19 15:24:25 <matrx> i wonder if something has the device open
Nov 19 15:24:36 <matrx> this didn't happen before the most recent diablo updates
Nov 19 15:24:50 <lardman> matrx: which governor are you using?
Nov 19 15:25:08 <matrx> tried them all
Nov 19 15:25:34 <lardman> so on performance, for example, it's not at 400MHz?
Nov 19 15:25:34 <matrx> i used to be able to use the default ondemand at set max_freq to 400000
Nov 19 15:25:41 <matrx> but performance is locked at 330000 max/min
Nov 19 15:26:02 <lardman> interesting, does sound like dvfs lock caused by the dsp
Nov 19 15:26:53 <lardman> run "dspdld -p" from the command line somewhere (in another window to your cpufreq stuff as it won't return)
Nov 19 15:28:20 <matrx> it killed off 3 pids, failed to open /lib/dsp/dsp_dld.conf, and returned
Nov 19 15:28:37 <matrx> which i'm guessing isn't expected behavior
Nov 19 15:28:56 <lardman> ah yeah, sorry you need to symlink from /lib/dsp/dsp_dldavs.conf to  /lib/dsp/dsp_dld.conf
Nov 19 15:29:18 <lardman> first name might be slightly wrong, can't remember off the top of my head
Nov 19 15:29:44 <lardman> dsp_dld_avs.conf probably
Nov 19 15:29:44 <matrx> but you're right, as whatever it killed seems to have resumed the clocking to 400mhz
Nov 19 15:29:45 <lardman> then run dspdld -p again
Nov 19 15:29:48 <lardman> well if you have the loader open you should be able to see what was is started running
Nov 19 15:29:56 <lardman> then again perhaps some task just got stuck
Nov 19 15:30:17 <qwerty12> lardman, hi, does the sysfs patch to change op_mode on the fly work for you? I echoed 0 to op_active and pybattery still says it's running at 330. It's tempting to just edit n800-board-dvfs.c and recompile the kernel and be done with it.
Nov 19 15:30:25 <lardman> with that symlink in place, issuing dspdld (no -p) will restart the dsp and reload the conf files, etc.
Nov 19 15:31:10 <lardman> qwerty12: can't change op_mode directly I don't think, need to echo into some sysfs entry (something with dsp in the name)
Nov 19 15:31:44 <qwerty12> lardman, I'm talking about the patch that lets you do that :)
Nov 19 15:33:27 <lardman> echo 1 > /sys/power/op_dsp
Nov 19 15:33:29 <lardman> echo 0 even
Nov 19 15:34:04 <matrx> i don't see anything new opening on the dsp_dld session, but it seems to cleared whatever was pegging the scaler
Nov 19 15:34:07 <qwerty12> Thanks lardman
Nov 19 15:34:46 <lardman> matrx: yeah, fair enough, just make sure you re-reun dsp_dld when you quit out of the non-daemonised form
Nov 19 15:34:47 <lardman> qwerty12: np
Nov 19 15:35:12 <lardman> s/dspdld/dsp_dld  for all of the above ;)
Nov 19 15:36:04 <matrx> i figured :)
Nov 19 15:36:12 <matrx> i'm going to reboot and see what happens
Nov 19 15:42:10 <X-Fade> Interesting: http://cia.vc/stats/project/maemo/.message/fb30e6
Nov 19 15:42:12 <matrx> lardman: should conf be symlinked by default?
Nov 19 15:42:43 <matrx> having done that, the problem seems to have resolved itself on subsequent reboots
Nov 19 15:43:29 <matrx> and strangley now 400mhz is the default max_freq for the ondemand gov
Nov 19 15:48:50 <lardman> matrx: no, it needn't be symlinked, but if not you need to add another switch + the path to the conf file
Nov 19 15:49:11 <lardman> matrx: this is handled correctly by the init scripts and dmse, just easier to symlink if you need to restart it often to avoid typing
Nov 19 15:49:20 <lardman> s/dmse/dsme
Nov 19 15:50:17 <matrx> so it's just chance that this reboot worked as expected?
Nov 19 15:51:02 <lardman> well not chance, it's just the fact you restarted the DSP
Nov 19 15:51:13 <lardman> had you rebooted the entire machine before and it not fixed the issue>
Nov 19 15:51:14 <lardman> ?
Nov 19 15:51:40 <matrx> i had in fact
Nov 19 15:51:40 <matrx> it's actually why i reflashed diablo
Nov 19 15:52:00 <lardman> oh, wierd then
Nov 19 15:52:40 <lardman> well it may re-occur then, restarting the dsp is not something different to what happens when you restart the machine, and the symlink should make no odds whatsoever
Nov 19 16:00:57 <matrx> so oh well
Nov 19 16:01:23 <lardman> might it have been something you installed?
Nov 19 16:07:30 <matrx> lardman- i'll just move on and pretend i was crazy unless it starts happening again
Nov 19 16:08:05 <lardman> best plan :)
Nov 19 16:08:05 <aquatix> that's not that hard anyway ;)
Nov 19 16:50:54 <mgedmin> "sapwood [...] may well be the most advanced Gtk pixmap engine right now" -- http://dborg.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/creating-themes/
Nov 19 17:03:25 * lcuk bangs head on desk multiple times
Nov 19 17:04:04 <RST38h> reMoo
Nov 19 17:04:19 * RST38h supplies lcuk with a few silicate bricks
Nov 19 17:04:38 * lcuk prefers to nuzzle in silicone
Nov 19 17:07:05 <RST38h> lcuk: whazzup with liqbase btw?
Nov 19 17:07:47 <johnx> mgedmin, nevermind the fact that it can be a huge PITA :/
Nov 19 17:10:09 <lcuk> RST38h, what do you mean whazzup?
Nov 19 17:11:48 * Stskeeps plays with a builder script
Nov 19 17:13:24 <RST38h> lcuk: any new features coming? release quality ui? icons?
Nov 19 17:14:52 <lcuk> talk soon
Nov 19 17:16:11 <RST38h> evil, keeping everybody in suspense like that
Nov 19 17:22:12 <lcuk> RST38h, not evil, just have customer vnc session and ive booted everyone out of their database and i need to finish this first :P
Nov 19 17:22:56 <pupnik> hoohoo
Nov 19 17:23:38 <RST38h> lcuk: drop *; commit4 done
Nov 19 17:23:53 <RST38h> pupnik ehlo
Nov 19 17:24:26 <pupnik> good day RST38h
Nov 19 17:24:54 <pupnik> you're hanging out in #maemo a lot lately RST38h :)
Nov 19 17:25:29 <pupnik> i'm using my dentist's internet atm... (heh)
Nov 19 17:27:30 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, pupnik.
Nov 19 17:27:51 <RST38h> pupnik: my screen is
Nov 19 17:28:15 <RST38h> lcuk: well at least they will finally haul him off and you wont hear the screams
Nov 19 17:31:57 <pupnik> hey
Nov 19 17:53:00 <mimshita> hello, i see to have a problem with gtkhtml, i can find the correct repos for that group of packages
Nov 19 17:57:13 <mimshita> can anyone help me, thanks
Nov 19 17:58:31 <johnx> I think it's installed on the tablet to start with. do you need the dev files for it?
Nov 19 17:58:42 <johnx> s/dev files/headers/
Nov 19 17:58:42 <infobot> johnx meant: I think it's installed on the tablet to start with. do you need the headers for it?
Nov 19 17:59:23 <mimshita> i'm using the cross platform
Nov 19 17:59:24 <mimshita> maemo armel
Nov 19 17:59:42 <mimshita> to compile the source code first
Nov 19 18:00:27 <johnx> well the packages are here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1/free/g/gtkhtml/
Nov 19 18:00:52 <mimshita> but maybe i'm doing it wrong...this step should be on the tablet
Nov 19 18:00:56 <mimshita> humm...
Nov 19 18:01:24 <johnx> you compile in scratchbox, but I think it should already have gtkhtml installed
Nov 19 18:02:59 <mimshita> i thought so too, but the reality is whrn compiling my application it gives an error because of the missing package
Nov 19 18:03:07 <johnx> try this: apt-cache policy gtkhtml-dev
Nov 19 18:04:00 <johnx> does it say that gtkhtml-dev is installed?
Nov 19 18:06:41 <mimshita> yes
Nov 19 18:07:11 <mimshita> gtkhtml-dev:
Nov 19 18:07:11 <mimshita>   Installed: 3.13.91-3osso15
Nov 19 18:07:11 <johnx> then the problem is likely that your application isn't finding it correctly
Nov 19 18:07:18 <mimshita> maybe it is trying for an older version...
Nov 19 18:08:23 <Khertan_n810> Hello !
Nov 19 18:08:30 <johnx> hi Khertan_n810
Nov 19 18:09:24 <Khertan_n810> treeview and preferences gui are a real pain to do !
Nov 19 18:10:49 <mimshita> this has been a real pain just from install
Nov 19 18:11:09 <mimshita> i started to install maemo 4.1 then updated to 4.1.1 and always had lots of problems with the repos
Nov 19 18:11:31 <johnx> well the problems with repos should be over
Nov 19 18:11:35 <johnx> the servers were being shuffled around recently
Nov 19 18:12:16 <mimshita> good:)
Nov 19 18:13:01 <mimshita> can one of you tell me a url with a nice howto install maemo, I found an txt, that had all the steps
Nov 19 18:13:24 <Stskeeps> johnx: now with hasty-armv5el{-vfp}, hasty-armv6-vfp, jaunty-armel, jaunty-i386 build rootstraps :P
Nov 19 18:13:33 <mimshita> but i always have the feelling that not all was installed
Nov 19 18:13:39 <johnx> mimshita, why do you think that?
Nov 19 18:14:04 <johnx> Stskeeps, great. see the latest screenshot?
Nov 19 18:14:05 <Stskeeps> johnx: nop?
Nov 19 18:14:08 <johnx> it actually doesn't look b0rken :)
Nov 19 18:14:38 <johnx> http://tinyurl.com/6nk2ow
Nov 19 18:14:38 <Stskeeps> oh that's quite neat
Nov 19 18:14:52 <Stskeeps> :)
Nov 19 18:15:01 <johnx> that's the most important use of my tablet so it had to be first...now I just need to be able to enter text :)
Nov 19 18:15:23 <GeneralAntilles> Ooh, nice, johnx.
Nov 19 18:15:54 <mimshita> for example this, is is strange that the install file does not recognize or is able to find the lib on compilation, unless...
Nov 19 18:15:58 <johnx> for most basic python apps it should really just be some dependency tweaking :)
Nov 19 18:16:07 <Stskeeps> johnx: there's always the home-applets maybe
Nov 19 18:16:13 <Stskeeps> home-ip etc
Nov 19 18:16:20 <johnx> mimshita, that's a normal part of cross compiling I think
Nov 19 18:16:25 <Stskeeps> they're python so
Nov 19 18:16:30 <johnx> ah, I could do python-desktop next I guess
Nov 19 18:16:30 <Khertan_n810> homeip
Nov 19 18:16:31 <Khertan_n810> no -
Nov 19 18:16:37 <mimshita> do you know the latest version of libgtkhtml?
Nov 19 18:16:57 <mimshita> probably:), i'm kinda new to the process
Nov 19 18:17:18 <Stskeeps> mimshita: libgtkhtml is a bit special on tablet
Nov 19 18:18:09 <Khertan_n810> if special == slow:
Nov 19 18:18:14 <Khertan_n810>   return True
Nov 19 18:18:59 <Khertan_n810> johnx: what that's screenshots ?
Nov 19 18:19:15 <johnx> quicknote running in Mer (formerly maemo-reconstructed)
Nov 19 18:19:35 <johnx> infobot, mer is the distribution formerly known as Maemo Reconsctructed
Nov 19 18:19:35 <infobot> okay, johnx
Nov 19 18:19:46 <Khertan_n810> maemo-reconstructed ... i still doesn t understand what this mean ... but
Nov 19 18:20:10 <johnx> it's Nokia's maemo UI parts on to of a minimal ubuntu base
Nov 19 18:20:11 <Meiz_n810> johnx: try to add usb-host command to rc.local, and then you can use usb keyboard...
Nov 19 18:20:29 <Khertan_n810> the app look like interested infact ...
Nov 19 18:20:35 <johnx> well, yeah, that's the easy way out, but it's cheating :P
Nov 19 18:20:36 <Khertan_n810> simple ...
Nov 19 18:20:56 <mimshita> I see...nowadays it's constantly running against the clock, and each error is a head against the wall:)
Nov 19 18:20:56 <Khertan_n810> Does it s available for a 'normal' maemo os ?
Nov 19 18:21:12 <johnx> Khertan_n810, I highly recommend it. It shares a lot in common with the PalmOS Memo app
Nov 19 18:21:30 <Khertan_n810> yep this look like
Nov 19 18:21:35 <Khertan_n810> i ve planned to do something like that
Nov 19 18:21:41 <Khertan_n810> but don t have the time to write it
Nov 19 18:21:55 <johnx> if you want it: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/quicknote/
Nov 19 18:22:14 <zakkkmm> how come i cant install rtcomm? it has missing dependencies
Nov 19 18:22:14 <zakkkmm> ( diablo , n800 )
Nov 19 18:22:22 <zakkkmm> i added the colla... repository
Nov 19 18:22:36 <zakkkmm> and added several with it.
Nov 19 18:23:06 <johnx> did you follow all the instructions?
Nov 19 18:23:25 <zakkkmm> johnx: talking to me?
Nov 19 18:23:25 <johnx> yes
Nov 19 18:23:33 <zakkkmm> theres instructions?
Nov 19 18:23:41 <Meiz_n810> johnx: did you start quicknote from menu?
Nov 19 18:23:47 <johnx> Meiz_n810, I did
Nov 19 18:23:53 <zakkkmm> on my old n770, it just required me to click install ;p
Nov 19 18:24:40 <Meiz_n810> if i start something from menu, window-decorations diappear immediately
Nov 19 18:24:44 <johnx> zakkkmm, http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/
Nov 19 18:25:07 <johnx> Meiz_n810, that's odd
Nov 19 18:25:08 <Meiz_n810> starting from telnet does not brake window decorations
Nov 19 18:25:26 <Khertan_n810> johnx: an other repository ? not in extras ?
Nov 19 18:25:46 <zakkkmm> oh cool, thanks johnx
Nov 19 18:25:47 <johnx> Khertan_n810, extras-devel
Nov 19 18:26:16 <Khertan_n810> hum... strange that application manager ask for adding repository
Nov 19 18:26:16 <johnx> Meiz_n810, does it crash matchbox or something?
Nov 19 18:26:17 <Khertan_n810> as i ve already it
Nov 19 18:26:22 <johnx> they might have the title of extras devel different?
Nov 19 18:26:28 <johnx> I wonder if that would cause it...
Nov 19 18:26:41 <zakkkmm> what does red pill actually do?
Nov 19 18:26:49 <johnx> it changes which packages are allowed to be installed
Nov 19 18:26:49 <Khertan_n810> ... it stupid if this is only that
Nov 19 18:27:05 <zakkkmm> so its like "super" devel?
Nov 19 18:27:05 <timeless> it gives you ~8 more options
Nov 19 18:27:06 <GeneralAntilles> ~red-pill
Nov 19 18:27:13 <GeneralAntilles> zakkkmm, evil things
Nov 19 18:27:13 <Meiz_n810> johnx: menu and advanceb-bklight still appear in the right place, but the app i start from menu appears in top corner...
Nov 19 18:27:25 <GeneralAntilles> https://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode
Nov 19 18:27:28 <GeneralAntilles> ~red-pill is https://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode
Nov 19 18:27:29 <infobot> okay, GeneralAntilles
Nov 19 18:27:53 <zakkkmm> im on my highschool pc
Nov 19 18:29:42 <Khertan_n810> do you have some ui freeze while many apps are open on maemo
Nov 19 18:29:45 <Khertan_n810> ?
Nov 19 18:30:15 <zakkkmm> khertan_n810: me?
Nov 19 18:30:27 <johnx> Khertan_n810, probably a memory shortage?
Nov 19 18:30:34 <Khertan_n810> i ve about three web page, 12 xterm, 2 python app, file manager, and music player running
Nov 19 18:30:46 <Khertan_n810> johnx : maybe
Nov 19 18:30:53 <johnx> definitely a memory shortage
Nov 19 18:30:54 <Khertan_n810> :)
Nov 19 18:30:56 <johnx> I'm sure lots of stuff is paged out
Nov 19 18:31:02 <zakkkmm> wow
Nov 19 18:31:19 <Khertan_n810> and xchat :)
Nov 19 18:31:22 <johnx> surprised you haven't dropped from IRC actually
Nov 19 18:31:36 <Khertan_n810>  19:31:16 up 6 days, 39 min, load average: 2.50, 3.72, 2.55
Nov 19 18:31:37 <zakkkmm> xchat is nice :)
Nov 19 18:31:37 <zakkkmm> ;o
Nov 19 18:31:37 <Khertan_n810> nope xchat work well
Nov 19 18:31:45 <zakkkmm> 3.72 ... that must be laggy :P
Nov 19 18:32:03 <Khertan_n810> the only drop i get is from a phone data connection lost
Nov 19 18:32:13 <Khertan_n810> not really laagy in fact
Nov 19 18:32:20 <Khertan_n810> just get sometime a 5s lag
Nov 19 18:32:34 * zakkkmm calls that laggy
Nov 19 18:32:51 <Khertan_n810> specially when i make a large svn commit
Nov 19 18:32:57 <zakkkmm> on the nokia? :p
Nov 19 18:33:05 <zakkkmm> you use svn on the nokia? :P
Nov 19 18:33:41 <Khertan_n810> yep but this 5s appear sometime ... i ll say with 15 min of interval
Nov 19 18:33:42 <Khertan_n810> yep i use svn on the tablet
Nov 19 18:33:47 <zakkkmm> oh
Nov 19 18:33:48 <Khertan_n810> as  i code on the tablet :)
Nov 19 18:34:09 <zakkkmm> anyone know a good free sip, for the nokia?
Nov 19 18:34:13 <GeneralAntilles> zakkkmm, Khertan_n810 is what we in the biz like to call a "crazy person". ;)
Nov 19 18:34:32 <Khertan_n810> the most laggy thing is running glade one the tablet
Nov 19 18:34:37 <zakkkmm> never heard of glade ;p
Nov 19 18:34:49 <zakkkmm> coding on the nokia just sounds odd ;p
Nov 19 18:34:49 <Khertan_n810> GeneralAntilles: not a crazy personn just someone optimizing time
Nov 19 18:34:50 <thopiekar> aaah a little question... if i view my svn-"repo" of maemo-garage with eclipse it don't show any folders...
Nov 19 18:35:09 <zakkkmm> i guess the n810 has a keyboard but yeah
Nov 19 18:35:28 <Khertan_n810> yep but before n810 i code with an n800
Nov 19 18:35:30 <Khertan_n810> :)
Nov 19 18:35:39 <thopiekar> but when i'm using my google.code's svn i works fine
Nov 19 18:35:39 <johnx> hence "crazy person"
Nov 19 18:35:45 <Khertan_n810> and before on my palm directly with an onboard compiler
Nov 19 18:36:04 <Khertan_n810> lol
Nov 19 18:36:24 <johnx> update on h-i-m: sapwood is the one triggering the X error
Nov 19 18:36:24 <Khertan_n810> who is responsible of the icon for quicknote ?
Nov 19 18:36:30 <johnx> I have no idea
Nov 19 18:36:54 <johnx> there's a homepage for it listed on the page on maemo.org/downloads though
Nov 19 18:37:04 <zakkkmm> how would irc work in rtcomm?
Nov 19 18:37:11 <Stskeeps> johnx: happens with both Xomap and xorg?
Nov 19 18:37:27 <zakkkmm> does it show channels as ppl ?
Nov 19 18:37:29 <johnx> I can't get that part to work in Xomap :/
Nov 19 18:37:54 <johnx> I guess that should be my next real test
Nov 19 18:37:56 <Stskeeps> it crashes in Xomap too or what do you mean? :P
Nov 19 18:37:56 <Stskeeps> oh
Nov 19 18:37:56 <Stskeeps> right
Nov 19 18:38:00 <Stskeeps> tslib was it?
Nov 19 18:38:17 <johnx> in Xorg, the keyboard starts to draw then crashes
Nov 19 18:38:24 <johnx> in Xomap, it won't try to pop up the keyboard
Nov 19 18:38:48 <zakkkmm> anyone know a good SIP, for nokia?
Nov 19 18:38:48 <johnx> I'll test again as I'm out of good ideas
Nov 19 18:39:12 <mimshita> sofia-sip!
Nov 19 18:39:12 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 19 18:39:30 <GeneralAntilles> zakkkmm, channels are chat rooms.
Nov 19 18:39:31 <GeneralAntilles> It sucks in comparison to XChat.
Nov 19 18:39:32 <Khertan_n810> hum quicknote ui is a bit strange
Nov 19 18:39:59 <johnx> Khertan_n810, you get used to it. it has the right workflow at least: open, right note, close, never worry about saving
Nov 19 18:40:36 <Khertan_n810> yep ... don t worry about saving is ok
Nov 19 18:41:05 <johnx> right -> write of course
Nov 19 18:41:05 <Khertan_n810> what is strange is 'new note' in the list ... as their is an add button
Nov 19 18:41:05 <johnx> mer
Nov 19 18:41:24 <zakkkmm> why does MSN ( haze ) give network error?
Nov 19 18:41:28 <Khertan_n810> mer what ?
Nov 19 18:41:36 <Khertan_n810> don t understanf
Nov 19 18:41:46 <Khertan_n810> s/understanf/understand
Nov 19 18:41:47 <johnx> at myself for for right/write
Nov 19 18:42:01 * Stskeeps passes johnx some coffee
Nov 19 18:42:29 <johnx> Stskeeps, heh...not if I want to sleep at anything resembling a normal time...lost cause already huh?
Nov 19 18:42:35 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 19 18:42:35 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 19 18:43:03 <zakkkmm> how come i recieve network error with msn and irc?
Nov 19 18:43:13 <zakkkmm> aim connects okay though
Nov 19 18:43:46 <Stskeeps> johnx: i'm pondering if the beagleboard at my work is on fire or something.. i'm giving it quite a beating
Nov 19 18:44:35 <johnx> my zaurii haven't died yet, neither has my n800
Nov 19 18:44:42 <johnx> your beagle will be fine
Nov 19 18:45:17 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 19 18:45:48 <zakkkmm> how come it shows irc connected, but it didnt join this chatroom nor did it appear in "online"
Nov 19 18:46:01 <johnx> because it's a beta
Nov 19 18:52:51 <Khertan_n810> arring at train station
Nov 19 18:52:51 <Khertan_n810> bye
Nov 19 18:52:53 <Khertan_n810> arriving
Nov 19 18:54:30 <Pavlov> hrmp
Nov 19 18:56:07 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, hehe, yes, that's better. ;)
Nov 19 19:11:57 <qwerty12_N800> "I downloaded this app called "Hello World App" on my nokia n800 then i realized it didn't do much,"
Nov 19 19:12:05 <GeneralAntilles> Ahaha
Nov 19 19:12:39 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N800, you should patch it to ask for a name and say "Hello World, and $NAME!" :P
Nov 19 19:12:39 <GeneralAntilles> Then, maybe, he'll be satisfied.
Nov 19 19:13:03 <qwerty12_N800> lol
Nov 19 19:14:17 <lcuk> what is the modern equivalent of "10 print 'hello world' : 20 goto 10"
Nov 19 19:14:33 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, ferencs got karma feeding a dummy user. http://maemo.org/profile/view/test_user/ http://maemo.org/profile/view/test/ :D
Nov 19 19:15:14 <qwerty12_N800> All that karma should be mine!
Nov 19 19:15:22 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, well, mine would be: 1. Offer lcuk bacon for coding a Hello World app. 2. lcuk codes Hello World app. 3. The bacon is a lie.
Nov 19 19:15:55 <lcuk> haha, but if the bacon is a lie wont the bpig be angry
Nov 19 19:21:03 <johnx> while true ; do echo oh hai there ; done
Nov 19 19:21:31 <johnx> even updated the message to be understandable by today's youth
Nov 19 19:22:13 <Stskeeps> johnx: http://trac.tspre.org/svn/m-r/trunk/installer/apt.preferences , would an extra section with a=jaunty work too?
Nov 19 19:22:23 <qwerty12_N800> s/oh hai there/wag1
Nov 19 19:22:49 <johnx> Stskeeps, sure
Nov 19 19:23:45 <Stskeeps> with same pin priority?
Nov 19 19:24:21 * johnx thinks through all the implications
Nov 19 19:24:27 <GeneralAntilles> Any comments on this? https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints
Nov 19 19:24:40 <lcuk> johnx:
Nov 19 19:24:40 <lcuk> 'while' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
Nov 19 19:24:40 <lcuk> operable program or batch file.
Nov 19 19:24:45 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: what are you planning to do with jaunty?
Nov 19 19:25:02 <johnx> lcuk, your shell is wrong :)
Nov 19 19:25:19 <disco_stu> his shell is ill
Nov 19 19:25:31 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: we're compiling for a bunch of different bases to cover our bases
Nov 19 19:25:31 <johnx> Stskeeps, yes, as long as mojo guys have been good and haven't modified any packages without bumping the version number
Nov 19 19:25:40 <Meiz_n810> ok
Nov 19 19:26:20 <johnx> but really, you probably want to track one distro explicitly if you want to maintain some kind of sanity
Nov 19 19:26:49 <johnx> jaunty should always be higher or equal...but I don't like leaving it to that
Nov 19 19:27:02 <disco_stu> johnx, do you know an easy way to change wlan txpower
Nov 19 19:27:19 <johnx> you can reduce it in the connectivity settings
Nov 19 19:27:25 <disco_stu> iwconfig doesnt work
Nov 19 19:27:30 <johnx> but it won't help you
Nov 19 19:27:47 <johnx> correct
Nov 19 19:28:19 <disco_stu> johnx, in that dialog it takes a lot
Nov 19 19:28:33 <disco_stu> to actually get there
Nov 19 19:28:45 <johnx> yes, it does
Nov 19 19:28:52 <johnx> but also "it won't help you"
Nov 19 19:28:53 <johnx> it will not affect battery life
Nov 19 19:29:09 <johnx> it's only to comply with regulations in certain countries
Nov 19 19:30:00 <disco_stu> johnx, it does reduce battery consumption
Nov 19 19:30:31 <johnx> no it doesn't according to the Nokia engineers
Nov 19 19:30:34 <johnx> I'll dig up the quote if you need me to
Nov 19 19:31:33 <disco_stu> its alright
Nov 19 19:32:49 <disco_stu> i've experinced how it improves range
Nov 19 19:33:07 <disco_stu> too bad it doesnt with battery life
Nov 19 19:33:49 <johnx> most of the time the card is idle so the radio is off
Nov 19 19:34:04 <disco_stu> yes
Nov 19 19:34:30 <johnx> it's possible that if you were right next to the access point, uploading constantly it might have some effect
Nov 19 19:34:57 <johnx> but if you set it to the lower value it will just force the card to retransmit all the time and waste power
Nov 19 19:35:06 <disco_stu> a problem i found is that the n800 wont disassociate from aps when intended to do so
Nov 19 19:35:43 <johnx> just switch to offline mode
Nov 19 19:36:25 <disco_stu> the card goes offline
Nov 19 19:36:45 <disco_stu> but the ap still thinks she is there
Nov 19 19:37:08 <johnx> that's by definition the AP's problem
Nov 19 19:37:15 <disco_stu> no
Nov 19 19:37:33 <disco_stu> it only happens with n800
Nov 19 19:38:09 <disco_stu> nor with palms, notebooks
Nov 19 19:39:30 <johnx> is it a stale dhcp lease? is it an entry in the ARP table? lots of possibilities
Nov 19 19:39:38 <johnx> also: does it cause any problem?
Nov 19 19:39:45 <johnx> anyways, I'm off to bed, so good luck with your AP
Nov 19 19:39:50 <Stskeeps> night johnx
Nov 19 19:40:25 <disco_stu> the assoc list has nothing to do with dhcp
Nov 19 19:40:44 <disco_stu> nor arp cache
Nov 19 19:41:16 <disco_stu> and it doesnt cause problems, just upsets me
Nov 19 19:41:49 <disco_stu> johnx, n8
Nov 19 19:45:16 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: where should i create symbolic link to get flash work in epiphany-webkit? (using jaunty)
Nov 19 19:53:03 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, then stop looking at the list. ;)
Nov 19 19:53:16 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: lol
Nov 19 19:53:42 <disco_stu> the thing is that i had an script running in my accespoint wich blinks some leds, just to know if i have clientes connected
Nov 19 19:53:54 <disco_stu> and my n800 is spoiling int
Nov 19 19:54:02 <disco_stu> s/int/it/
Nov 19 19:54:12 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: er.. look in the source for the package i guess
Nov 19 19:54:29 <infobot> disco_stu meant: and my n800 is spoiling it
Nov 19 19:54:29 <Meiz_n810> ok
Nov 19 19:54:30 <GeneralAntilles> Shouldn't your N800 be connected when you're home, anyway?
Nov 19 19:54:53 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: i use it a lot at home
Nov 19 19:54:59 <disco_stu> :P
Nov 19 19:55:31 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N800, that took, what, 3 days for the community to do what Nokia couldn't manage in 8 months?
Nov 19 19:55:32 <GeneralAntilles> Awesome.
Nov 19 19:56:27 <qwerty12_N800> GeneralAntilles, I know. It's pretty effing pathetic in my opinion.
Nov 19 19:56:39 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N800, I think it's about time to jettison dependence on Nokia.
Nov 19 19:57:28 <qwerty12_N800> For sure. :)
Nov 19 19:58:37 <GeneralAntilles> Always leverage the strengths of the resources available to you.
Nov 19 19:59:01 <GeneralAntilles> Fast turnaround and sane policies are not one of Nokia's strengths.
Nov 19 19:59:07 <Mousey> id
Nov 19 19:59:07 <Mousey> oops
Nov 19 19:59:07 <Mousey> tu
Nov 19 19:59:19 <Mousey> oops, wrong channel
Nov 19 20:00:52 <RST38h> General: Nokia's handling of Maemo is better than 90% other companies would do though
Nov 19 20:01:36 <RST38h> General: Examples: Motorola's developer support, Adobe's "open sourced" flash player, Sun's "open sourced" MIDP2 lacking crucial sourcecode pieces
Nov 19 20:02:10 <RST38h> Google's....mmm...whatever they call Android nowadays
Nov 19 20:02:18 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, sure, but I don't do business with those other companies.
Nov 19 20:02:29 <RST38h> Luckily for you :)
Nov 19 20:03:03 <RST38h> Pretty much the closest to Nokia is Microsoft with WinMobile
Nov 19 20:03:04 <GeneralAntilles> No reason not to expect better simply because other companies do a lot worse.
Nov 19 20:03:20 <RST38h> Support-wise. But I would rather eat toilet paper than use WinMobile...
Nov 19 20:03:28 <RST38h> General: Just saying that Nokia is trying.
Nov 19 20:03:31 <Stskeeps> toliet paper, you say..
Nov 19 20:04:01 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, winmo here over uiq (and i like symbian)
Nov 19 20:04:14 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, and I'd be the first to say so. ;)
Nov 19 20:04:15 <RST38h> General: like a dinosaur trying to bite off a dandelion, indeed, but trying
Nov 19 20:04:58 <RST38h> qwerty: UIQ wasn't that bad really. Buggy implementations, but not as fundamentally broken as WinMobile
Nov 19 20:06:41 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, Serious lack of programs for it. Even uiq hacking is small compared to s60 hackers (and sony ericsson enea ose based phones have a shitton of hackers)
Nov 19 20:08:00 <RST38h> qwerty: That's different from being fuckied up as a platform
Nov 19 20:08:20 <RST38h> qwerty: Has to deal with Sony ericsson not marketing UIQ phones at all
Nov 19 20:08:55 <RST38h> ok, they tried with P1 in Moscow and a lot of people still have P1s here
Nov 19 20:11:17 <qwerty12_N800> The results of Sony Ericsson's inactions still makes me want to go with WinMo instead :)
Nov 19 20:11:50 <RST38h> Oh, do try, if you really have to
Nov 19 20:12:06 <RST38h> Just don't buy WinMo phone, borrow it for a week
Nov 19 20:14:47 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N800, when are you gonna put together a wifi page so we can stop staring at this same retarded thread over and over and over again. . . . http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=243217#post243217
Nov 19 20:17:00 <qwerty12_N800> Fine, but I may need help with tables in the wiki :P
Nov 19 20:18:25 <GeneralAntilles> Woot!
Nov 19 20:18:30 <GeneralAntilles> Just get the info in there, I'll make it look pretty.
Nov 19 20:19:40 * qwerty12_N800 dislikes that applet actually. It seems to have an inability with restoring disabled services back in the correct order (browserd is a nice example, but I guess it's because the applet uses update-rc.d)
Nov 19 20:19:46 <qwerty12_N800> :)
Nov 19 20:22:35 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=243215&postcount=4 - evidently not a sarcasm fan :p
Nov 19 20:24:56 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Nov 19 20:26:24 <RST38h> General: Maybe making a list of all services running on the tablet with explanations of what each service does is in order?
Nov 19 20:26:45 <RST38h> like WinNT service administration list does (it has got explanations for each service)
Nov 19 20:26:53 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, qwerty12 seems to be on it.
Nov 19 20:27:04 <dougt_> weird question -- is there a way to remove the battery, have the device plugged in, and have it work.  mozilla is setting up a testing lab and wants to be able to hard reboot this in case of an error (by automatically removing power).
Nov 19 20:27:36 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, that's what i've been commissioned for :p. i'll start a draft in the morning (typing that draft on the n800 would kill me first)
Nov 19 20:28:32 <GeneralAntilles> dougt_, sadly, no.
Nov 19 20:28:40 <GeneralAntilles> dougt_, it's not wired for that
Nov 19 20:28:52 <RST38h> qwerty, General: Just give me a wiki page address and I will make a table there
Nov 19 20:28:57 <RST38h> with all the currently running services
Nov 19 20:29:06 <RST38h> we can fill in explanations later
Nov 19 20:29:07 <GeneralAntilles> Partially because the tablets can actually draw more power than the wallchargers can provide.
Nov 19 20:32:04 <dougt_> GeneralAntilles: so, what happens when the battery is at zero and that happens?
Nov 19 20:32:17 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, I haven't started anything yet (and I'm not good with titles either :))
Nov 19 20:32:23 <disco_stu> dougt_: what could happen
Nov 19 20:32:44 <GeneralAntilles> dougt_, that situation doesn't really exist.
Nov 19 20:32:51 <GeneralAntilles> The battery is never truly at zero
Nov 19 20:33:21 <RST38h> ok, lemme see if I can start it
Nov 19 20:33:22 <GeneralAntilles> The tablet would turn itself off if the battery level is at critical, though (30% or so)
Nov 19 20:33:48 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks, RST38h! :)
Nov 19 20:34:37 <dougt_> one more bad question, any router suggestions to work well with the n810s?  PSM has been killing me.  I am using a airport extreme and see frequent router reboots
Nov 19 20:34:54 <GeneralAntilles> dougt_, I've had no issue with DD-WRT and Tomato stuff.
Nov 19 20:35:06 <dougt_> got a link?
Nov 19 20:36:05 <GeneralAntilles> I'd recommend the Buffalo WHR-G125, but they're been locked out of sale in the US thanks to some idiotic patent issues.
Nov 19 20:36:10 <GeneralAntilles> WRT-54GL is the old standby
Nov 19 20:36:46 <GeneralAntilles> dougt_, http://www.polarcloud.com/tomatofaq#what_will_this_run_on
Nov 19 20:36:52 <GeneralAntilles> Tomato is a lighter, faster, more open-source friendly replacement for DD-WRT
Nov 19 20:38:07 <RST38h> General: Hwo do I create a new page?
Nov 19 20:38:13 <RST38h> Found it
Nov 19 20:38:15 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, just type in the title
Nov 19 20:38:24 * qwerty12_N800 would love it if his netgear ran dd-wrt. I spend my time cross compiling the stuff I want and then updating the code i use to glue <whatever> to nvram :\ 
Nov 19 20:38:52 <GeneralAntilles> DD-WRT looks good in comparison to default firmwares
Nov 19 20:39:08 <GeneralAntilles> but it's an ugly piece of shit in comparison to Tomato
Nov 19 20:39:09 <GeneralAntilles> and DD-WRT pretty much hates open source.
Nov 19 20:39:56 <Veggen> uhm...openwrt?
Nov 19 20:39:57 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: pop quiz, cflags for armv5el, armv5el-vfp, and armv6-vfp? :P
Nov 19 20:40:19 <qwerty12_N800> thomson routers should be avoided like the plague if you like custom firmwares.
Nov 19 20:40:34 <GeneralAntilles> Veggen, generally less newbie-friendly, I guess.
Nov 19 20:40:34 <GeneralAntilles> But also a good option.
Nov 19 20:40:38 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, i can get you armv6-vfp flags, the others, not a chance :p
Nov 19 20:40:58 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 19 20:41:36 * Stskeeps is setting up the builder atm so
Nov 19 20:41:50 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, if by armv5, we mean 770, 770 doesn't have a fp
Nov 19 20:42:23 <Stskeeps> mm
Nov 19 20:44:35 <GeneralAntilles> dougt_, if they want to be a little more dirty, they could probably wire up power directly to the battery pads.
Nov 19 20:45:00 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, "-mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -mcpu=arm1136jf-s -mtune=arm1136jf-s"
Nov 19 20:45:00 <dougt_> yeah, that is what I am thinking
Nov 19 20:45:01 <dougt_> GeneralAntilles: do you know the specs?
Nov 19 20:45:10 <dougt_> (i guess, i could just look at the battery.
Nov 19 20:45:10 <dougt_> )
Nov 19 20:45:30 <GeneralAntilles> dougt_, 3.7v 1500mAh
Nov 19 20:45:48 <dougt_> please tell me you have one in front of you.
Nov 19 20:45:59 <GeneralAntilles> Well, um, technically yes.
Nov 19 20:46:04 <GeneralAntilles> But I'm not looking at it. :P
Nov 19 20:59:38 <Mousey> I AM NOW HOLDING MY NEW SANDISK 16GB *MICROSD* CARD!
Nov 19 20:59:47 <Mousey> happiest n810 evar, on the brink of happinesshood!
Nov 19 20:59:48 <GeneralAntilles> Congratulations, you're now exactly where N800 owners were 8 months ago. :P
Nov 19 21:00:13 <Mousey> GeneralAntilles, ha ha
Nov 19 21:00:14 * qwerty12_N800 gets the ski mask. Mousey's happiness will not be for long muhahahaha
Nov 19 21:01:44 <Mousey> well if i had a REAL SD slot, instead of this miniscule blahblah tinyslotnonsense
Nov 19 21:01:44 <RST38h> General: Beautify at will: http://wiki.maemo.org/Services
Nov 19 21:02:11 <Mousey> =P
Nov 19 21:02:24 * Mousey clicks
Nov 19 21:03:15 <Mousey> i know the answrs to some of the ???'s!
Nov 19 21:03:38 <GeneralAntilles> Aaah, excellent, RST38h. :D
Nov 19 21:05:14 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, <nitpick>It's either "Extras" or "maemo.org Extras"</nitpick>
Nov 19 21:05:22 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, cool, thanks. brightness-permission is installed by adv-backlight for 770's with fanoush's kernel to let you echo to required sysfs entry to change brightness. n8x0 users have no need of it at all actually (and is disabled by default for n8x0)
Nov 19 21:06:04 <qwerty12_N800> ...echo to required sysfs entry to change brightness ^ as"user"
Nov 19 21:06:31 <GeneralAntilles> Any other columns that should be added to the table?
Nov 19 21:07:32 <lcuk> Mousey, are you a red dwarf fan?
Nov 19 21:08:11 <RST38h> General: You fix it, ok? =)
Nov 19 21:08:12 * qwerty12_N800 is willing to add to descriptions & add  a new table for daemons that are not on the device by default tommorow. and a "required/essential/willmydeviceblowupifidisablethis" column 
Nov 19 21:08:21 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, yeah, it's all cleaned up.
Nov 19 21:08:26 <RST38h> And add the links and the styles too because I am stupid and hate Wiki markup language
Nov 19 21:09:19 <RST38h> qwerty: I have got those in the same list (like carmand)
Nov 19 21:09:39 <Mousey> lcuk, not so much, familiar with it, but not a big fan
Nov 19 21:09:39 <RST38h> qwerty: What the table really needs is idiot-proof descriptions
Nov 19 21:10:58 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, i know :). I have the feeling that i will be seeing "zomg, i don't have carmand listed in my services, do i need to reflash"
Nov 19 21:11:11 <qwerty12_N800> if they aren't separated
Nov 19 21:12:41 <RST38h> qwerty: maybe... then you want to separate ones that only run on startup
Nov 19 21:12:59 <lcuk> mousey (and others) i think of this EVERY time i'm holding a memory stick http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DpZiNO2CRtw
Nov 19 21:13:37 <lcuk> 2 minutes 05 for the specific
Nov 19 21:19:09 <RST38h> General: I added some descriptions. Check please.
Nov 19 21:19:45 <GeneralAntilles> Would some "types" be useful?
Nov 19 21:23:10 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, I separated the tables.
Nov 19 21:23:53 <RST38h> ok
Nov 19 21:26:13 <RST38h> More descriptions added
Nov 19 21:26:25 <RST38h> You want someone from Nokia to add more involved descriptions
Nov 19 21:27:21 <GeneralAntilles> I think there are some descriptions in the documentation
Nov 19 21:28:14 <qwerty12_N800> maemo-launcher isn't responsible for "Loading..." messages. hildon-desktop produces them when starting an app via dbus
Nov 19 21:31:02 <RST38h> what is it responsible for then?
Nov 19 21:31:49 <qwerty12_N800> maemo-launcher precaches some gtk stuff like pango etc. if your application is linked to maemo-launcher, your application can startup quicker
Nov 19 21:31:50 <RST38h> ah
Nov 19 21:31:53 <RST38h> making change
Nov 19 21:35:29 * qwerty12_N800 promises to add detailed descriptions in the morning (must have said it about 3 or 4 times already :)) 
Nov 19 21:36:01 <RST38h> ok, I am going to go read and hit the bed
Nov 19 21:36:02 <RST38h> that page is all yours now
Nov 19 21:43:17 * Stskeeps is in evil scientist mood today. builder that connects to jaiku
Nov 19 21:43:48 <Stskeeps> ok, mad scientist more closely
Nov 19 21:43:48 <RST38h> "See, what airplanes are good at is blowing up expensive, visible, identifiable things, to include other airplanes. An aircraft carrier in the open Pacific fits the bill nicely"
Nov 19 21:43:49 <RST38h> Hehe
Nov 19 21:52:08 <RST38h> "Never, ever underestimate fun as a driver of military policy."
Nov 19 21:54:43 <Stskeeps> http://merbuilder.jaiku.com/ , hehe
Nov 19 22:08:21 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, you're a sick person.
Nov 19 22:08:43 <Stskeeps> yes
Nov 19 22:08:48 <Stskeeps> this guy would be the most irritating to have as a contact
Nov 19 22:11:42 <RST38h> Why "Mer"?
Nov 19 22:12:02 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: pipe your bash commands too? :O http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/bti.html
Nov 19 22:12:16 <RST38h> You should really rename it into "La Mer" =)
Nov 19 22:16:09 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: hehe, this has a bit of purpose, it's not just a log
Nov 19 22:40:26 <lcuk> huzzah! i have 1KB downloads for liqbase :D   http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/ (would be nice to have more than 4bit voting)
Nov 19 22:40:27 <Stskeeps> woop
Nov 19 22:40:37 <lcuk> ie vote now :P
Nov 19 22:43:03 * Stskeeps is designing his monsterbuilder
Nov 19 22:43:37 <jagernot> nice lcuk
Nov 19 22:44:12 <jagernot> 2 questions from a wannabe...how do i get my app into multimedia, and how do i take screenshots?
Nov 19 22:45:57 <lcuk> after you have registered your project with extras and got it through the serious builder you can then build up one of these download pages, and as for taking screenshots, i dunno in general maemo, liqbase includes screenshot capabilities by default (just press the [Fullscreen] button anywhere in the system :)
Nov 19 22:46:03 <lcuk> and if you think its nice vote for the sucker :P
Nov 19 22:46:14 * lcuk rarely whores his app it normally does the talking
Nov 19 22:46:59 <jagernot> that whore title goes to jag/boxar :)
Nov 19 22:47:41 <mikkov_> load applet can take screenshots
Nov 19 22:47:58 <jagernot> where is this load applet mikkov?
Nov 19 22:48:17 <mikkov_> extras
Nov 19 22:49:08 <GeneralAntilles> I just use x11vnc.
Nov 19 22:49:44 <GeneralAntilles> Since I've got a script to automatically capture, crop, compress, upload and stick the URL into my clipboard on my computer. ;)
Nov 19 22:52:54 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, i bet you've given your script some kind of catchy name like "autocropcompressuploadcopyurlclip.sh" havent u
Nov 19 22:52:58 <GeneralAntilles> wincapnsize
Nov 19 22:53:48 <lcuk> at the moment, its a multiple step process to upload images taken in liqbase to my server, but at least the media stream is sensible and I know i just sort the folder to get the latest stuff
Nov 19 22:54:07 <lcuk> though i have got an upload script already available
Nov 19 22:55:18 * lcuk cant believe my whoring didnt work :'( no1 voted for it http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/
Nov 19 22:55:59 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk is a bad pimp.
Nov 19 22:56:07 <GeneralAntilles> Give me $5
Nov 19 22:56:19 <lcuk> yeah qwerty i am :(
Nov 19 22:56:54 * lcuk tries to wear a pimp coat but just looks like a pratt
Nov 19 22:57:28 <lcuk> so qwerty12_N800 how would i do it better then
Nov 19 22:57:45 <lcuk> and GeneralAntilles i already owe you beers, ill just add more onto the tab
Nov 19 22:57:50 <GeneralAntilles> Rated
Nov 19 22:57:54 <GeneralAntilles> Whore
Nov 19 22:58:03 * lcuk gets on his knees
Nov 19 22:58:29 * lcuk finds his contact lens
Nov 19 22:58:48 * qwerty12_N800 crushes them
Nov 19 23:00:28 <lcuk> thats just bad form qwerty, now i cant find anything
Nov 19 23:01:24 * lcuk is rough 
Nov 19 23:01:33 <lcuk> :D
Nov 19 23:07:31 <Genobob> Hello, i have a quick question
Nov 19 23:08:33 <lcuk> fire away bob
Nov 19 23:09:24 <Genobob> does the Maemo OS have the ability to be a simple Kiosk? My needs for the Nokia N810 would be simple and ONLY to access the internet over wifi via a web browser, and perhaps have the GPS on. I want to make it so the user only can have the web browser open if possible
Nov 19 23:09:30 <Genobob> so basically lock it down completely. Make sense?
Nov 19 23:10:04 <Stskeeps> you can probably hack yourself into that situation, yeah
Nov 19 23:10:51 <Genobob> I do not have the N810 yet, just looking into it currently. I am most familiar with Slackware as a Desktop OS. Does anyone have tips on how to do it?
Nov 19 23:11:13 <Stskeeps> it's a matter of tinkering quite a bit, but not impossible
Nov 19 23:13:23 <Genobob> so it is possible. Awesome. Do you know of anyone who has done what I am considering?
Nov 19 23:13:32 <timeless> i saw an internal demo
Nov 19 23:13:52 <timeless> :)
Nov 19 23:14:00 <Genobob> lol
Nov 19 23:14:37 <Genobob> alright, thanks
Nov 19 23:14:55 <timeless> but in general it'd take a considerable amount of effort
Nov 19 23:14:56 <timeless> typically the browser will let you launch other apps
Nov 19 23:15:06 <timeless> you'd probably need to whack most of the .desktop files to suppress that
Nov 19 23:15:19 <timeless> (or uninstall the apps)
Nov 19 23:15:49 <Genobob> yeah... most likely I will be uninstalling them
Nov 19 23:15:54 <timeless> making the browser launch visibly at startup and dealing w/ the desktop will probably involve you replacing the desktop app
Nov 19 23:16:08 <lights234> hi all
Nov 19 23:16:17 <GeneralAntilles> Wire up the faceplate with a taser that goes off whenever you try to do an unauthorized operation.
Nov 19 23:16:29 <Genobob> lol
Nov 19 23:16:30 <Genobob> if only
Nov 19 23:16:46 <GeneralAntilles> Get some of those Wiimote wristbands so people don't drop them.
Nov 19 23:17:04 <lights234> once I couldnt see any application in the application menu from the desktop
Nov 19 23:17:12 <GeneralAntilles> Kiosk mode is requested a lot
Nov 19 23:17:21 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody should put together a jffs2 image or something.
Nov 19 23:17:21 <lights234> I got an advice here and copied some file from /usr/share and it solved it
Nov 19 23:17:39 <lights234> however I can no longer edit the application menu
Nov 19 23:17:52 <lights234> how to fix it?
Nov 19 23:18:09 <lcuk> heh lights234 could you tell Genobob how you managed to remove all your applications from the menu, hes interested to know
Nov 19 23:18:24 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Nov 19 23:19:04 <lcuk> i am constantly surprised by how many different directions people want to pull their devices in :)
Nov 19 23:20:12 <lights234> lcuk: dont know how :-(
Nov 19 23:20:12 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, well, there's not a lot of decently open, fast, versatile hardware like the tablets out there.
Nov 19 23:20:14 <lcuk> and unfortunately i dont know how to repair it
Nov 19 23:20:15 <GeneralAntilles> Most of the other fast stuff is pretty well locked down.
Nov 19 23:20:32 <qwerty12_N800> lights234, chown user:users the file that you copied to ~/somewhere
Nov 19 23:20:43 <lcuk> hey shush, this tablet is fast :) its only slightly disabled
Nov 19 23:21:34 <lights234> qwerty12_N800: hi you saved me last time :-)
Nov 19 23:21:51 <lights234> I like you
Nov 19 23:21:52 <qwerty12_N800> :)
Nov 19 23:22:09 <lcuk> qwerty12_N800, did you happen to get ogl built from source or did you give up (i didnt manage it either)
Nov 19 23:22:13 <lights234> but I dont remeber which file it was
Nov 19 23:22:52 <lights234> can I use find to find to find it?
Nov 19 23:23:01 <lcuk> lights234, qwerty has linux superpowers
Nov 19 23:23:01 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, i gave up, files missing etc
Nov 19 23:23:05 <Genobob> yeah, i figured kiosk mode would be requested prior to me, but i couldnt find much online about it.... unless I used a different OS that is specifically designed to be a kiosk, but not for phones
Nov 19 23:23:44 <GeneralAntilles> Genobob, I think the problem is is that most of the people asking are after custom solutions.
Nov 19 23:23:53 <GeneralAntilles> Say, museums distributing them to patrons
Nov 19 23:24:04 <lights234> btw there is a woot off now
Nov 19 23:24:04 <GeneralAntilles> So they go and roll their own solution and it never sees the light of day outside their deployment.
Nov 19 23:24:04 <lcuk> Genobob, would something like "while 1; browserui;" work along with wiping as many user apps as possible?
Nov 19 23:24:04 <lights234> www.woot.com
Nov 19 23:24:15 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, museum guy is happy using built in paint
Nov 19 23:24:19 <lcuk> i think
Nov 19 23:24:19 <lights234> qwerty12_N800: where are these desktop files?
Nov 19 23:24:45 <qwerty12_N800> lights234, /usr/share/applications/hildon
Nov 19 23:24:58 <lights234> ok, so I need to seek a file that has root:root permitions?
Nov 19 23:25:07 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, there's been more than one.
Nov 19 23:25:15 <lcuk> same guy
Nov 19 23:25:23 <lcuk> was speaking to him a couple of weeks ago
Nov 19 23:25:48 <Genobob> yeah, maybe... but I need the ability to lock it down so its either the browser or its off.... you know what I mean?
Nov 19 23:25:48 <qwerty12_N800> lights234, not in that folder. lemme scour the irc logs :)
Nov 19 23:25:53 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, I'm talking into 2007.
Nov 19 23:26:41 <lcuk> ahhhh ancient times themselves thats life before tablet
Nov 19 23:26:41 <lights234> I was CityLights
Nov 19 23:26:42 <lights234> in them logs...
Nov 19 23:27:49 <t_s_o> heh, i keep coming back to the thinking that canola, liqbase and the other fullscreen apps (especially ones they get plugin support) is just another OS/DE stacked on top of a existing OS/DE...
Nov 19 23:28:09 <qwerty12_N800> I guess it's inevitable that searching those logs is getting slower :(
Nov 19 23:28:18 <GeneralAntilles> t_s_o, like johnx said. "Yep, emacs."
Nov 19 23:28:19 <lcuk> heh t_s_o agreed, i had problems though with switching apps, liqbase was never meant to be modal
Nov 19 23:28:53 * lcuk hits tso on the head with an ipod
Nov 19 23:29:38 <lcuk> it was funny you posted here just now, id just wrote that ^ in the forum
Nov 19 23:30:11 <t_s_o> :P
Nov 19 23:32:34 <qwerty12_N800> lights234, what does ls -l /home/user/.osso/menus/applications.menu say?
Nov 19 23:33:05 <lights234> min
Nov 19 23:33:19 <lights234> user     users
Nov 19 23:33:36 <t_s_o> im not sure i follow you when you say that liqbase was never ment to be modal, lcuk
Nov 19 23:34:15 <t_s_o> but them im not fully up to speed on the "lingo" of user interfaces...
Nov 19 23:34:15 <qwerty12_N800> lights234, hrm, that isn't your problem then (in captain obvious mode) :/
Nov 19 23:35:35 <t_s_o> anyways, as i think about its, liqbase strikes me as a variant of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archy
Nov 19 23:35:38 <lights234> maybe I should run some stat -c %a /path/to/somewhere | grep 644 ?
Nov 19 23:35:51 <t_s_o> only using graphics rather then text
Nov 19 23:37:00 <t_s_o> and i keep also being reminded of how the apple lisa handled the creation of new files...
Nov 19 23:37:27 <GeneralAntilles> lulz Lisa
Nov 19 23:38:09 <t_s_o> the thing was that you started by creating the file first, then filling it with data, not creating the data first and then putting it somewhere...
Nov 19 23:38:11 <lcuk> t_s_o, thank you
Nov 19 23:38:33 <t_s_o> your welcome
Nov 19 23:39:29 <lcuk> ive never seen archy, but am reading more :) it looks intruiging
Nov 19 23:39:29 <t_s_o> anyways, that removed the need for a "save file" dialog, as the file was allready created in some location or other...
Nov 19 23:39:34 <lcuk> you're camera does it
Nov 19 23:39:35 <lcuk> your as well
Nov 19 23:39:35 <lcuk> ffs
Nov 19 23:39:52 <lcuk> you take pictures without care as to its name, you can retrieve the data later
Nov 19 23:39:54 <t_s_o> i would not know the inner workings of a digital camera, but it would not surprise me
Nov 19 23:40:06 <lcuk> and sort and tag it
Nov 19 23:40:23 <lcuk> i mean in principle, not in practice
Nov 19 23:40:50 <lcuk> most just increment a filename
Nov 19 23:40:59 <lights234> qwerty12_N800: find /usr/share/ -name *.desktop -perm 664 -print  gives no answer
Nov 19 23:42:16 <t_s_o> true that, lcuk
Nov 19 23:43:19 <qwerty12_N800> lights234, I honestly have no idea :/. Maybe a update-desktop-database (but no idea if this will help any)?
Nov 19 23:43:48 <lights234> even find /usr/share/  -perm 664 -print  gives two other files..
Nov 19 23:46:58 <lights234> the update fixed it!
Nov 19 23:47:00 <lcuk> t_s_o, the zooming interface sounds similar to what i want :) the stamp tool is my first view to this, but i want to be able to click on any inserted sketch and zoom in/out (but with better spatial tricks ontop)
Nov 19 23:53:35 <t_s_o> hmm, it seems the wikipedia article on the apple lisa dont touch on the file creation thing, so a qick google dug up this: http://www.applefritter.com/node/3198
Nov 19 23:58:29 <lcuk> lots of systems do creation without specifying names
Nov 20 00:01:37 <lcuk> the more i look at these older OSes and systems, the more I want to get hold of them :) im gonna get myself a newton as soon as I possibly can
Nov 20 00:02:21 <lcuk> anyway, im vanishing, its been a long day
Nov 20 00:02:29 <lcuk> gnite t_s_o qwerty gen etc :)
Nov 20 00:02:29 <t_s_o> night
Nov 20 00:08:19 <lights234> bye bye
Nov 20 00:14:41 <dieb_> hi, what is the default music folder? /home/user/.MyDocs/Music ?
Nov 20 00:43:28 <jaem> hello
Nov 20 00:44:08 <jaem> just wondering... does anybody know why disabling bluetooth in the GUI doesn't stop the BT services to save resources?
Nov 20 00:45:38 <Stskeeps> think it probably will in fremantle
Nov 20 00:46:30 <jaem> thanks - I couldn't see any good reason for that...
Nov 20 00:47:53 <jaem> also, any word on SOCKS proxy support?  I noticed references to it in the if-up script, but it's not in the GUI.  Given that it doesn't support TTLS-PAP (what my uni uses), I'd like to be able to tunnel through my desktop with ssh
Nov 20 00:52:39 <sp3000> gah wtfpileupbbq bug 2639
Nov 20 00:57:21 * sp3000 giggles at the suggestion that documentation would help cover ux changes in a minor release
Nov 20 00:57:27 * tigrux is away: Away
Nov 20 00:57:51 * sp3000 slaps tigrux
Nov 20 01:02:25 * tigrux is back (gone 00:04:52)
Nov 20 01:14:58 <jagernot> quite a bit of crowd today: time to pimp my work in progress sound synth for n810: http://www.poojyum.com/boxar_1.0-1_armel.deb
Nov 20 01:14:59 <jagernot> comments appreciated :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 20 02:59:56 2008