**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 21 02:59:57 2008 Nov 21 04:29:53 someone intereseted in developing some kind of dj software for n8x0 Nov 21 04:30:20 ? Nov 21 04:41:06 nobody ? Nov 21 04:48:51 alo Nov 21 04:49:42 hi Nov 21 04:50:41 disco_stu! Nov 21 04:51:05 bef0rd Nov 21 04:51:58 dj software hehe, sounds funny Nov 21 04:52:26 yes Nov 21 04:53:44 what toolkit do you plan to use? Nov 21 04:54:12 python Nov 21 04:54:19 toolkit Nov 21 04:54:19 and pygame maybe Nov 21 04:54:25 ah ok Nov 21 04:54:28 define toolkit Nov 21 04:54:29 EFL! Nov 21 04:54:37 EFL (?) Nov 21 04:54:42 GTK, QT, EFL Nov 21 04:54:44 Like Canola and Carman Nov 21 04:54:51 wxwidgets Nov 21 04:54:53 my own gui Nov 21 04:54:57 :P Nov 21 04:55:20 That'd be liqbase. ;) Nov 21 04:55:43 you should really check EFL/edje (if you haven't) Nov 21 04:56:03 the gui is not important now Nov 21 04:56:15 what is important is the audio capabilities Nov 21 04:56:41 the gui will be important at some point Nov 21 04:57:03 bef0rd: when the audio part is finished Nov 21 04:57:18 ;p Nov 21 05:03:26 well we have mp3 playing Nov 21 05:03:28 and fadeouts Nov 21 05:03:30 lol Nov 21 05:08:31 we are back at the begining since pygame for maemo wont play mp3 files Nov 21 05:11:04 gstream Nov 21 05:13:08 er Nov 21 05:13:25 i was trying to avoid gstreamer Nov 21 05:13:31 but sounds the best choice Nov 21 06:06:22 anything new and cool going on with the N800 in the last 6-7 months? I haven't been keeping up to date with things....any "must have" software now? Nov 21 06:08:59 guess not Nov 21 06:39:32 heh Nov 21 06:49:55 Oh god Nov 21 06:50:04 Quim mentioned jIRC. <_< Nov 21 06:52:07 GeneralAntilles: i still didnt get XB-Maemo-Upgrade-Description field to work Nov 21 06:53:05 "A package can specify a separate description to be used when it is displayed in the "Check for updates" view. This description should talk about what is new in this version of the package. The upgrade description is specified with the Maemo-Upgrade-Description field. It is formatted like the normal Description field." Nov 21 06:53:14 You are looking at the Check for updates field, right? Nov 21 06:53:52 oh, wait Nov 21 06:54:30 Hello Nov 21 06:56:09 To be honest, sampo, I can't actually think of a package that uses it (which is why I put together that post in the first place ;)) Nov 21 06:56:15 GeneralAntilles: ok now it shows that there is an update. Im in chedk for updates view Nov 21 06:56:31 Should be a tab in the info view. Nov 21 06:56:38 Hello Nov 21 06:56:51 Hey, Khertan_n810, what's the word? :) Nov 21 06:56:58 GeneralAntilles: and if i click I (info) button, there are only Summary, Description and Updating tabs Nov 21 06:57:04 the word ? Nov 21 06:57:18 Khertan_n810, in other words, how are things? :P Nov 21 06:57:26 bad ... Nov 21 06:57:32 train is late Nov 21 06:57:55 google sync generate many Atom error in the atom python lib Nov 21 06:58:09 orange is making me furious Nov 21 06:58:20 I'm sorry. :( Nov 21 06:58:25 blocking imap/gmail.com ... and other things Nov 21 06:58:40 which make internet useless Nov 21 06:58:42 Do they offer an email service for an extra $10 a month? ;) Nov 21 06:59:10 this the 'unlimited 3g data connection service' Nov 21 06:59:43 but 'unlimited' by orange mean 10Mo Nov 21 06:59:54 I can't believe cellular companies can get away with such an insane amount of abuse of that word. Nov 21 07:00:04 and they change the contract and now block imap/smtp Nov 21 07:00:17 in france their is no choice Nov 21 07:00:24 their is three company Nov 21 07:00:46 which have an sort of contract ... and price is bout the same Nov 21 07:00:47 GeneralAntilles: im pretty sure that i dont have a typo in my debian/control, my XB-Maemo-Upgrade-Description, its after XB-Maemo-Display-Name and before XB-Maemo-Icon-26 section. Both of them work fine Nov 21 07:01:31 sampo, my recommendation is to start with harassing qwerty12 when he shows up then move on to maemo-developers with your control file in hand. ;) Nov 21 07:01:48 and of course this is the gouvernement which deliver autorisation ... but doesn t want a foiurth operator Nov 21 07:01:49 fourth Nov 21 07:02:04 and they block the entry of other company in this market Nov 21 07:02:21 lol Nov 21 07:02:27 normal as the president is a friend of two of this company Nov 21 07:02:30 You should build yourself a giant wifi antenna. Nov 21 07:02:37 director Nov 21 07:03:08 General : this is forbidden by law Nov 21 07:03:26 and fon disappear progressively ... Nov 21 07:04:09 GeneralAntilles: ok. It would be nice to see some program which actually uses this cool feature...but if there isnt any :( Nov 21 07:04:17 Khertan's gonna start an underground cellular company. Nov 21 07:04:25 as now who own the network connection is responsible for everything make with it Nov 21 07:04:25 this is really stupid Nov 21 07:04:47 does your are guilty when someone use your car to kill someone Nov 21 07:04:48 sampo, well, once you figure it out I'll edit the post to clarify. Nov 21 07:05:54 ok :) Nov 21 07:08:57 Rah ! and now i can t use gdata ... as orange block the domain ! Nov 21 07:09:04 * Khertan_n810 will made a murder Nov 21 07:13:55 Hey, speak of the devil. Nov 21 07:14:21 Khertan_n810, gotta switch to books and movies or something for the train. :( Nov 21 07:14:53 hum ... Nov 21 07:15:08 this will mean stop my dev of mcalenda Nov 21 07:15:11 mcalendar Nov 21 07:15:32 as i ve only the time to dev in the train Nov 21 07:15:49 Gotta find a job closer to home Nov 21 07:15:52 or home closer to job. :P Nov 21 07:16:44 ... i m trying for the job Nov 21 07:16:59 for home it s impossible Nov 21 07:17:12 i ve bought two years ago my house Nov 21 07:17:37 and can t resell it at the same price due to real estate down Nov 21 07:18:02 Ouch Nov 21 07:18:08 so loan is the problem Nov 21 07:18:44 and problem in france is that developpment job is mainly located in paris Nov 21 07:19:12 and telework isn t really recognize Nov 21 07:19:23 That's too bad. Nov 21 07:19:37 less than 1% of worker is teleworker in france Nov 21 07:20:14 and in high-tech domain it s around 2% Nov 21 07:20:19 :( Nov 21 07:20:27 so ... hum Nov 21 07:21:15 hum ... it seems i ve found a temp way for orange stupidity Nov 21 07:21:19 dns tunneling Nov 21 07:23:31 File "/alarmd.py", line 77, in check_for_error Nov 21 07:23:39 Internal error Nov 21 07:23:42 fun Nov 21 07:23:46 funny Nov 21 07:24:08 Did we get the alarmd source yet? Nov 21 07:24:12 Or DSME? :\ Nov 21 07:24:15 Hi, pupnik. :) Nov 21 07:25:12 hi GeneralAntilles Nov 21 07:25:35 wut new... any fdc / endgaget on n9x0? Nov 21 07:25:52 Nothing new hardware-wise since the Summit. Nov 21 07:26:32 pupnik, http://maemo.org/community/council is a good place to track updates. ;) Nov 21 07:26:36 GeneralAntilles: if we get source i ll add a method Nov 21 07:26:48 to retrieve all id for an app Nov 21 07:27:15 there is nothing to know which alarm has been set by your app Nov 21 07:27:15 ty - nice to see Khertan also Nov 21 07:27:15 this is stupid Nov 21 07:27:24 hi pupnik Nov 21 07:27:42 Khertan_n810, have you seen the API reference? Nov 21 07:27:54 yep ... Nov 21 07:28:08 there is changes since four month ? Nov 21 07:28:19 as i read it 4 or 5 month ago Nov 21 07:28:33 Dunno, I just happened to browse across it yesterday so it's closer to the front of my brain. ;) Nov 21 07:29:15 ah :) Nov 21 07:29:37 Anybody else have an opinion about a #maemo jIRC client on maemo.org? (I'm strongly against ;)) Nov 21 07:29:48 jIRC ? Nov 21 07:29:52 java ? Nov 21 07:29:56 Yeah Nov 21 07:30:07 i m strongly against too ! Nov 21 07:30:21 use a streaming http client ! Nov 21 07:30:29 lol Nov 21 07:30:39 not a joke Nov 21 07:30:44 there is a good one Nov 21 07:30:56 just need to found it again Nov 21 07:31:17 All I've ever seen web IRC clients do is bring in a bunch of strongly entitled users with unidentifiable names (Maem1, Maemo2, Maemo3, etc). Nov 21 07:31:33 So it just results in a lot of spam that's irritating and disruptive for regular users. Nov 21 07:31:54 GAN800, Against. At least let noobs figure out how to connect to IRC. I may have to start using : http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/ Nov 21 07:32:18 Hehe Nov 21 07:32:19 Nice Nov 21 07:32:53 Well, drop your opinions on here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3882 Nov 21 07:33:12 My own experience leads me to believe a lot of people thing a web-based chat is automatically a live support channel. Nov 21 07:33:16 So they treat it like one. Nov 21 07:33:32 Exactly. Nov 21 07:34:22 The people that cant figure out how to use a regular IRC client are about 10x harder to help anyway. Nov 21 07:34:59 https Nov 21 07:35:07 Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against helping newcomers but when everything is already there (i.e click here to chat #maemo!) rather than people who setup their own IRC client ; I'd bet people would just expect answers straight rather than googling etc Nov 21 07:35:47 Yeah, well, I don't think anybody could accuse either one of us of not wanting to help people. :P Nov 21 07:35:57 :D Nov 21 07:39:20 not sure for me :) Nov 21 07:40:28 i ve tryed fennec yesterday Nov 21 07:40:43 this is far from ready to be use on nit Nov 21 07:41:08 does they plan it for the next nit hardware ? Nov 21 07:42:11 Nah, they're working on N810 Nov 21 07:42:15 s Nov 21 07:42:23 It's just barely an alpha Nov 21 07:42:33 Performance is the major target. Nov 21 07:42:56 yes i know it s an alpha Nov 21 07:43:03 i don t blame it Nov 21 07:43:39 just a think that it will be hard to optimize it enought to be usefull Nov 21 07:43:52 and it ll take time Nov 21 07:44:04 count in month Nov 21 07:44:07 s Nov 21 07:44:19 I guess we'll see Nov 21 07:44:25 so maybe their target isn t the actual device Nov 21 07:44:33 But I bet it'll fly on OMAP3 Nov 21 07:45:49 but not your battery :) Nov 21 07:46:52 is their any device running with an omap3 today ? Nov 21 07:47:12 Pandora, Beagle Board, Archos 5 Nov 21 07:47:31 Pandora isn t available yet Nov 21 07:47:48 The same piece of software will use less battery on OMAP3 than OMAP2 Nov 21 07:47:48 and Archos 5 don t know it Nov 21 07:48:00 It's just starting shipping. Nov 21 07:48:13 it's Archos's latest tablet. Nov 21 07:48:20 and autonomy is good on it ? Nov 21 07:48:39 i ve always think that archos are only pmp Nov 21 07:48:42 The Archos is about as closwd as they get. Nov 21 07:48:57 s/swd/sed/ Nov 21 07:48:58 GAN800 meant: The Archos is about as closed as they get. Nov 21 07:50:04 Ironic, replacing swd with sed :p Nov 21 07:50:13 Hehe Nov 21 07:50:23 :) Nov 21 07:51:42 Anyway, Khertan_n810, they're definitely targeting ARM11 devices. Nov 21 07:51:58 It's slow because it hasn't been optimized very well yet. Nov 21 07:53:11 The Archos makes me laugh, everything is an extra on it and I remember with my friend, he bought one and he plugged in the charger and an advert pops up on his screen offering to sell him the charging stand Nov 21 07:54:59 i ll let u ... Nov 21 07:55:06 i m out of battery Nov 21 07:55:07 bye Nov 21 07:55:11 Bye Nov 21 07:55:15 heh, bye :/ Nov 21 07:55:29 qwerty12, funnier yet, the charging stand charges faster than the bundled one. ;) Nov 21 07:55:42 Hah, typical. Nov 21 07:56:11 all the browsers use too much ram Nov 21 07:56:41 mavhc, the web is a RAM-unfriendly place Nov 21 07:57:05 indeed Nov 21 07:57:20 do they tend to keep graphics compressed in ram? Nov 21 07:57:24 But yeah, they're still largely targetted at desktops Nov 21 07:58:00 WebKit tends to be a bit better than Gecko, but it's not good enough. Nov 21 08:04:22 does anyone know what happening with the stage of project ubuntu mobile for nokia n8xx? Nov 21 08:22:35 websites *suck* nowadays Nov 21 08:23:47 For some reason people seem to think that having cool technology means they're required to use it as a solution to every possible problem. Nov 21 08:25:20 my n800 makes a brilliant flashlight at night. Nov 21 08:26:15 Hehe Nov 21 08:26:31 Should get a flashlight mode from the powerkey Nov 21 08:26:47 3 short presses to go to full brightness and an all-white screen. Nov 21 08:27:06 GeneralAntilles: is there a nice noscript/adblock webbrowser avail now? that crap is just driving me nuts Nov 21 08:27:23 For Maemo/ Nov 21 08:27:25 ? Nov 21 08:27:26 yah Nov 21 08:27:28 I just use CSS/hosts blocking and turn Flash off. Nov 21 08:27:33 mmk Nov 21 08:27:45 Browser Extras may have a plugin Nov 21 08:28:57 was just comparing wifi sensitivity between my 770 and a bunch of adapters. the 770 kicked ass on everything (including the alfa with ext 9dbi antenna) Nov 21 08:29:43 Yeah, it's a bit ridiculous Nov 21 08:30:26 yup - sees tons of beacons that are basically inaccessible too Nov 21 08:30:49 should look into whether i can make kismet ignore nets below X signal strength Nov 21 08:30:50 mornin' Nov 21 08:30:53 hi Nov 21 08:32:12 morning. Nov 21 08:51:14 Stskeeps: i got this boot from sdcard boot menu, which shows correct partitions but ubuntu doesn't, is it a bootmenu/loader problem or ubuntu problem? Nov 21 08:51:32 doesn't boot i mean Nov 21 08:53:17 Stskeeps: is this deblet bootmenu somehow diffrent than that boot from sdcard, or is it same? Nov 21 09:00:20 johnx: is deblet bootmenu same than boot_from_sdcard? Nov 21 09:03:11 * pupnik licks his T42P Nov 21 09:07:16 StsN800: is deblet bootmenu same than boot_from_sdcard? Nov 21 09:07:43 no Nov 21 09:08:06 its an deriative from fanoushes both of them Nov 21 09:08:20 ok thats why ubuntu didn't boot Nov 21 09:09:08 ours is different in terms of that we have linuxrc and .item support Nov 21 09:09:30 Still need to find a sucker to code up that control panel. . . . Nov 21 09:09:52 linuxrc is needed for sane non-maemo os;P Nov 21 09:10:21 GeneralAntilles, will probably be part of Mer i guess Nov 21 09:12:10 We need a team of crack GUI programmers who work only for attaboys. Nov 21 09:12:14 StsN800: ok i installed deblet bootmenu and now can boot ubuntu on outer sdcard and diablo from inner flash, but how could i boot diablo from inner sdcard? it doesn't show it on bootmenu? Nov 21 09:13:50 hahlobit, find the alpha/beta testing of deblet post on itt, there is something you can put in an .item, put in /etc/bootmenu.d, refresh_bootmenu.d Nov 21 09:14:12 good Nov 21 09:14:37 make sure fs options are not 'ro' and there must be no _LINUXRC line for maemo Nov 21 09:15:08 thanks i try that Nov 21 09:20:42 Morning, all Nov 21 09:20:56 Hey, Jaffa. Nov 21 09:21:24 * Jaffa left work at 23:15 and got to bed at 01:30. My two colleagues are still here at 09:22, and haven't gone home. Nov 21 09:21:38 Urgh Nov 21 09:23:14 Ouch.. Nov 21 09:24:10 Soo, who else noticed Canola in Bugzilla? ;) Nov 21 09:24:56 X-Fade: Hi Nov 21 09:25:27 X-Fade: I just read something you said last night: Nov 21 09:25:41 dneary: Did you ;) Nov 21 09:25:49 (for some reason I hadn't realised the significance) Nov 21 09:25:53 timsamoff: Why don't you setup a wiki page where people can drop design comments. Nov 21 09:26:07 timsamoff: So you can evaluate them, triage and communicate to acunha Nov 21 09:26:15 then all stuff is in one place. Nov 21 09:26:15 And not in 20 separate emails. Nov 21 09:27:15 Yes, I sometimes have some useful input. I'm not always the community idiot :D Nov 21 09:27:20 Like I said on the mailing list a couple of weeks back, we have this problem now - sometimes there are Talk: pages, sometimes mailing list, sometimes wiki pages, sometimes other stuff Nov 21 09:27:40 So I don't think it's a good idea to move discussion to a web page Nov 21 09:27:56 Mailing list is for discussion, web page is for evolutive documents Nov 21 09:28:05 So the way I see things happening is: Nov 21 09:28:22 People make their comments on the mailing list, creating debate and discussion Nov 21 09:28:44 Someone (me or Tim?) synthesises comments and debate into a spec Nov 21 09:28:47 In the wiki Nov 21 09:28:56 wiki = document, mailing list = discussion Nov 21 09:29:11 And that way everyone is clear where they should add their grain of salt Nov 21 09:32:45 Stsn800 where should this /etc/bootmenu.d found? didn't find it on diablo or ubuntu base Nov 21 09:42:04 hahlobit: does /usr/libexec/bootmenu exist? if so, just mkdir -p /etc/bootmenu.d Nov 21 09:42:41 X-Fade: What do you think? Nov 21 10:17:47 dneary: I don't have time enough to follow all discussions. So seeing a synopsis in a web page is always preferable.. Nov 21 10:18:01 And I think I'm not the only one :) Nov 21 11:10:29 GeneralAntilles: now i found out that XB-Maemo-Upgrade-Description field thing... that package must be upgraded from the repository..if you update with a package which is on the memcard...changelog wont be shown Nov 21 11:39:34 where is meizi when needed.. Nov 21 11:42:40 Stskeeps: what kind of LINUXRC line diablo needs? Nov 21 11:43:37 none i red Nov 21 11:47:10 none Nov 21 11:47:12 just remoev it Nov 21 12:00:28 * lcuk is cold today Nov 21 12:02:19 mm, icy outside here too Nov 21 12:02:48 * aquatix was almost blown into the water Nov 21 12:02:54 damn wind Nov 21 12:06:49 Yay, I reproduced eero's memory leak! Nov 21 12:10:13 fiferboy_n810: Great ;) Nov 21 12:10:18 fiferboy_n810: Well, or not :D Nov 21 12:15:38 Well, now I can fix it Nov 21 12:15:59 fiferboy_n810: Awesome. Nov 21 12:17:11 I am thinking about automated testing after our autobuilder, but problems like this would probably never show up there. Nov 21 12:17:18 That's a relief. Thanks for bringing this to my attention Nov 21 12:17:33 Yes, the problem is in one specific configuration Nov 21 12:19:50 i think one can never really make automated tests for these kinds of things... Nov 21 12:20:48 t_s_o: No, leaks on startup etc are doable. But screen refresh/overlap is really hard to test. Nov 21 12:20:59 I agree Nov 21 12:21:19 And in this case it require a specific setting, a resize, and disable Nov 21 12:21:33 But we can test if applications go to sleep if the screen blanks etc etc. Nov 21 12:26:14 kinda reminds me of that old story about a sports game, where someone spent days trying to do something that was considered practically impossible. end result, when he finally did it the game crashed... Nov 21 12:26:30 there will alwasy be some pesky corner case or other... Nov 21 12:27:28 Yep, testing always seems to miss something Nov 21 12:28:32 fiferboy_n810, you managed to reproduce the error, one question: did eero contact you first before blurting that thread over the ML? Nov 21 12:28:57 Well, at least this was not a root fs corruption or putting the device in a reboot loop ;) Nov 21 12:29:23 aren't we told in lots of places the responsible thing to do with errors and bugs and problems is to contact the responable party first and give them a chance to see if its fixable Nov 21 12:29:29 im guessing a worst case scenario would be a forced reboot Nov 21 12:29:40 lcuk: I think that was a spur of the moment thing from eero. If you follow the thread, you see he calmed down and regretted it a bit. Nov 21 12:30:05 lol yeah X-Fade i did (which is why i also didnt reply on the thread) Nov 21 12:30:32 though fiferboys new found publicity will have upped installation rates somewhat ;) Nov 21 12:30:54 Heh, I will see the new stats next week :) Nov 21 12:31:01 lol Nov 21 12:31:59 Btw, I created a new field to the downloads page. You can add a link to your bugtracker there. Nov 21 12:32:07 btw X-Fade i spotted you thinkin you were the community idiot (or something). you are most certainly not, you have been the real face of nokia for lots of things Nov 21 12:32:11 So people can report bugs more easily. Nov 21 12:32:49 I'm infamous now Nov 21 12:32:54 lcuk: Then something must have gone wrong. I intend to be a community face, not a Nokia face ;) Nov 21 12:33:11 heh ok, you know what i mean though Nov 21 12:33:29 fiferboy_n810: Let's see if somebody can break your 8MB/s leak rate record :D Nov 21 12:33:52 great about bugtracker! now i just need to create yet another account on there :| Nov 21 12:34:02 * lcuk hates creating accounts and watching multiple places Nov 21 12:34:24 if there a way for me to view my product page and get an overview of ALL the places where i might have bugs posted Nov 21 12:35:10 lcuk: The idea is that _you_ point that link at _your_ _own_ bugtracker ;) Nov 21 12:35:39 X-Fade: I'd like to see them try! Nov 21 12:36:04 yes, but i have a garage bugtracker, and at some point might have the central one, and if i have google code i have something there and a sourceforge page and all this lot. Nov 21 12:36:09 * lcuk explodes Nov 21 12:36:25 fiferboy_n810, what were the conditions for your leak? Nov 21 12:36:46 lcuk: You created your own nightmare that way. Just close them all down and move to one? Nov 21 12:37:01 "if username=='eero') leakmemory();" Nov 21 12:37:14 X-Fade, i agree, ive got garage right now Nov 21 12:37:25 but wasnt there talk of putting packages into the maemo tracker itself Nov 21 12:37:37 lcuk: No, eeror added more icons than can fit on the screen. And that triggered it. Nov 21 12:37:45 ahhh cool Nov 21 12:37:49 thats logical then Nov 21 12:38:02 hence why not many folks noticed Nov 21 12:38:35 No, because you have to a lot of applications installed _and_ enable them all in the launcher. Nov 21 12:38:35 help to login in myTube? i cant find howto.... :( Nov 21 12:38:59 is this option working? Nov 21 12:39:08 * lcuk yeah x-fade, edge cases like this happen. fiferboy_n810 glad you found it anyway Nov 21 12:39:21 * lcuk fixed a 10 year old bug yesterday Nov 21 12:39:35 so one basically had to force the program to attempt to draw outside the border of the desktop? i sense a duh coming on :P Nov 21 12:40:14 hiya t_s_o :) Nov 21 12:40:19 t_s_o: Well, one problem is that the applet is listing the icons vertically on install. Nov 21 12:40:20 lcuk: Nov 21 12:40:21 oops Nov 21 12:40:29 t_s_o: So you don't need that many icons.. Nov 21 12:40:35 t_s_o: Although still quite a bit. Nov 21 12:41:02 heh, i use the launcher for most used games (and some tools) and personal menu for a whole lot more ;) Nov 21 12:42:32 we have customers asking for magic buttons - i think maemo would benefit from this technology also Nov 21 12:42:51 heh, more like "do what i mean, not what i say"... Nov 21 12:46:30 t_s_o, if you heard some of the calls we get its unreal. most of the time we can glean a process out of things and get the contract, but sometimes they are living in cloud cuckoo Nov 21 12:48:56 heh, make someone idiot proof, and the world creates a "better" idiot... Nov 21 12:49:17 idiot++ Nov 21 12:49:46 * hahlobit mixed inner and outer sdcard once again sdcard diablo gone :( Nov 21 12:50:01 hmm? Nov 21 12:52:36 is there a way copy diablo from inner flashdisk to inner sdcard without touching bootmenu? Nov 21 12:53:54 cp, dd, tar? Nov 21 12:57:34 lcuk: Sorry, you had to be in resize mode, enough icons to fill a column, start a resize, then disable the applet Nov 21 12:58:20 with your hands tied behind back on a full moon whilst surfing on a dolphin and turtle combination Nov 21 13:01:59 Well, that helps Nov 21 13:09:33 bah, i hate how diablo made it impossible to have bluetooth on while wifi is in offline mode... Nov 21 13:10:04 t_s_o, you mean flight mode? Nov 21 13:10:15 or just wifi disconnected? Nov 21 13:10:40 flight mode. altho the power menu calls it offline mode... Nov 21 13:11:23 but thats right, you shouldnt have any wireless stuff Nov 21 13:12:13 funny thing is, one can turn it on, but it will turn itself off again after maybe 10 seconds. i smell a script or something going round checking... Nov 21 13:12:36 i guess it would also make a bit more sense if wifi and bluetooth control was rolled up into the same icon... Nov 21 13:14:46 meh, i guess i could understand it if they had bothered to label it correctly. with the current "offline mode" label, there is no mental connection between it and flying... Nov 21 13:16:52 "offline mode" just means "switch all radios off" Nov 21 13:17:04 but it'd be nice to be able to do bluetooth with wifi off indeed Nov 21 13:18:23 aquatix, you can, just disconnect wifi.. Nov 21 13:18:33 my wifi is off most of the time but BT is ready and waiting Nov 21 13:18:53 that still leaves the radio chip powered up tho, no? Nov 21 13:19:19 anyway, back to work bbl Nov 21 13:19:39 so if some pesky program gets the idea that it wants to use the net, it will make wifi connect, or at least go hunt for a available network Nov 21 13:21:52 lcuk: if i disconnect wifi, it still searches for AP's Nov 21 13:22:06 i had it autoconnecting at work while i thought it was off Nov 21 13:22:17 draining my battery (lousy reception) Nov 21 13:22:37 and what t_s_o says indeed Nov 21 13:24:26 funny, nokia wants to patent gesture control "video style", and its illustrated by drawings. drawings that contain a device that looks like a palm device on a stand :P Nov 21 13:25:48 :) Nov 21 13:29:38 hmm, wifinfo crashes on launch after update... Nov 21 13:33:21 seems to work while the wifi is not connected... Nov 21 13:37:24 hrmf, i need to poke around the maemo download list more often. not everything is available via app manager... Nov 21 13:54:32 gah! Nov 21 13:54:43 for the last few months ive been using my wang happily Nov 21 13:55:06 i use it every day (sometimes for big jobs) Nov 21 13:55:23 now today it stops working and tells me its got "internal error" \@/ Nov 21 13:55:48 anyone know how i can debug my wang? Nov 21 13:58:19 dear god the mental images.. Nov 21 13:58:32 lalalalala I can't hear you Nov 21 13:58:33 perhaps it's friction related Nov 21 13:58:39 don't use your wang so much Nov 21 13:59:00 i use it every day though, its only just been serviced Nov 21 14:01:20 lcuk: try switching hands? Nov 21 14:01:49 heh, it doesnt matter which hand i try Nov 21 14:02:07 i unplugged it and back in and it still wont work Nov 21 14:02:20 and if you slap it a bit? Nov 21 14:02:30 do you think i should try pulling back the cover and checking fora paper jam?> Nov 21 14:02:40 yeah, you should try Nov 21 14:02:44 :D Nov 21 14:03:10 found the problem? ;0 Nov 21 14:03:13 * ;) Nov 21 14:03:53 no, but there was all sorts of fluff and grime in there Nov 21 14:04:13 i wiggled a cotton bud around until i thought i would lose it Nov 21 14:05:12 ahh well, i suppose ill just make do with pdf printing instead Nov 21 14:05:51 * lcuk kicks his wang Nov 21 14:05:52 * Stskeeps grimaces on the cotton bud reference Nov 21 14:07:03 im in an office with other people, im trying really hard not to burst out laughin :| Nov 21 14:08:04 they know my wang is brokn though, i might escalatet the problem, nothing like sitting around on a friday afternoon nursing a poorly wang Nov 21 14:15:53 :D its working again Nov 21 14:16:06 somehow my drivers had come unstuck Nov 21 14:18:10 try sticky keys Nov 21 14:18:28 Ehlo. Trouble? Nov 21 14:18:40 RST38h: lcuk had issues with his wang Nov 21 14:18:54 lcuk: Try unplugging it from the wall outlet. Nov 21 14:19:07 lol Nov 21 14:29:11 did anyone ever port anki http://ichi2.net/anki/ to maemo yet? if I had this program for my n800, I'd never leave my n800 at home Nov 21 14:30:59 checking if it's GTK.. Nov 21 14:31:17 no Nov 21 14:31:20 ah, qt Nov 21 14:31:21 it is kde :( Nov 21 14:31:27 you might have a shot with the maemo QT though Nov 21 14:31:28 I hate kde/qt Nov 21 14:31:51 it does not seem to be too well designed for portable devices Nov 21 14:31:54 http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4_Hildon Nov 21 14:32:04 but it is the perfect app for a hand held device like this Nov 21 14:32:19 you can always bait people on iTT probably Nov 21 14:32:29 iTT? Nov 21 14:32:43 internettablettalk.com/forums Nov 21 14:33:00 quite honestly, I'm not interested in trying to make it work myself Nov 21 14:33:09 I'm just a user on the N800, not a developer Nov 21 14:33:12 well, i meant in terms of getting people to port it :P Nov 21 14:33:18 they might see the benefit for it too Nov 21 14:33:29 I did do a little bit of development for the zaurus, but too much of a pain to get everything setup and working Nov 21 14:33:35 (i could see the benefit, but i'm busy doing somethin else :P) Nov 21 14:33:37 it might be ported... search for a thread about kde4 repository for diablo Nov 21 14:33:52 thanks for the tips, I may check that out later on Nov 21 14:34:28 is OS2009 gonna come out soon? ;) Nov 21 14:36:28 if I were to post about it, what would be the "right" group? general? Nov 21 14:39:45 yeah, i guess Nov 21 14:41:30 ok, thanks for the advice/suggestions Nov 21 14:42:02 I'm learning Chinese, and that program on my N800 would be wonderful, for times when I'm on the bus or subway Nov 21 15:15:45 Stskeeps: installer on svn up-to-date? Nov 21 15:17:13 Okay, the leak is half fixed (I think) Nov 21 15:25:35 Yay! It's all better! Nov 21 15:27:38 X-Fade: I am uploading my fixed pakage to extras-devel Nov 21 15:27:54 Could you have eero test it? It should be all fixed now. Nov 21 15:44:45 X-Fade: I like the new build-queue status in extras-assistant Nov 21 16:02:17 * Khertan_WebIrc [W2I=000:u:0:000:] Nov 21 16:02:25 Hello : Nov 21 16:02:28 Hello ! Nov 21 16:03:16 Does there is an existing firewall for maemo ? (to block all outcomming connection exept port 80) Nov 21 16:03:26 ping ? Nov 21 16:03:49 There is iptables built in, maybe you could add a rule? Nov 21 16:04:37 Okay, newly fixed Personal Launcher is now in extras-devel Nov 21 16:04:41 hum ... yep ... but ... i want something that can be activated and deactivated simply Nov 21 16:05:04 the best would be setting dependant of connection :) Nov 21 16:05:12 I'll promote it once someone can confirm that it fixes eero's bug Nov 21 16:05:51 does we can get the name of the actual connection ? Nov 21 16:06:00 with libconic ? Nov 21 16:06:11 Khertan_WebIrc, You are deceiving me! :P :). You are a python programmer, I'm sure you can write a quick program that toggles it :). Then you can use something like conler (way easier) or dbus-scripts to add that script to a connection Nov 21 16:06:24 yep this what i m thinking Nov 21 16:06:40 no no no no ... better ... use libconic // alarmd Nov 21 16:06:49 so at each connection .... Nov 21 16:06:55 retrieve name ... and change rules Nov 21 16:07:28 there is some flag for alarm that trigger an alarm when connection is available Nov 21 16:09:59 it seems that i get some lags with this without java irc client Nov 21 16:11:42 * Khertan_WebIrc2 [W2I=000:u:0:000:] Nov 21 16:11:54 Oups ... i ve close the tab Nov 21 16:12:04 hehe Nov 21 16:12:31 * qwerty12 can't decide how python is loved by so many :p. I'm even having annoyances with distutils :P Nov 21 16:12:44 qwerty12: when you start using it after using java, it's a fresh breath Nov 21 16:12:44 :P Nov 21 16:13:18 Stskeeps, oh, I've never had an inclination to touch java :P. Only thing good about java is MIDP2 games :p Nov 21 16:13:23 if you want to try ... : http://www.web2irc.com/w2i-1.0beta2/chat.php?nickname=ENTERANICK&channel=%23maemo&age=&city=&server=irc.freenode.net&port=6667&lang=en&submit=Chat+NOW! Nov 21 16:13:40 Khertan_WebIrc2: you on your tablet or? :P Nov 21 16:13:46 if i can i avoid it ... and if not ... i kill it Nov 21 16:13:52 nope at work Nov 21 16:13:53 ah Nov 21 16:14:02 maybe mibbit is better than that client Nov 21 16:14:12 but i ll try on my tab Nov 21 16:14:17 nit Nov 21 16:14:32 as i need now to use port 80 with my phone data Nov 21 16:14:59 * Khertan_WebIrc3 [W2I=000:u:0:000:] Nov 21 16:15:10 Just a test to see the lag Nov 21 16:15:24 y Nov 21 16:15:30 y Nov 21 16:15:43 hum ... not so bad Nov 21 16:16:53 When using distutils, is there any way to make a file you specify as a "data_files" to go in the site-packages folder automatically? Nov 21 16:17:11 Without me hardcoding a path Nov 21 16:17:29 hum ... slow Nov 21 16:17:36 yep Nov 21 16:17:53 and don't like the ui Nov 21 16:18:00 me too Nov 21 16:18:03 :) Nov 21 16:19:27 distutils ? are you doing python things ? Nov 21 16:20:28 Yeah, I'm trying to make a package of a python program, I've got everything sorted out, I just need to move one file into site-packages. If I cant figure it out, I'll let debian/rules do the moving Nov 21 16:22:25 qwerty12: Look at the source package of titan, it uses the rules file to copy some files Nov 21 16:23:13 fiferboy, Cool, thanks for that, I will take a look. I've hardcoded a path for now in setup.py but I would like it done "dynamically" because you never know with python... Nov 21 16:24:39 Grr, permissions on /tmp messed up again Nov 21 16:24:49 Ah, perhaps I misunderstood what you were trying to do. Titan just has the debian package structure, a data directory containing all the files, and a rules file to put everything in place Nov 21 16:26:03 No, it's useful to me, thanks. I have more power with a Makefile (debian/rules in this case) than I do with distutils :) Nov 21 16:28:28 you also make a pkg which put it in a temp directory and move it with a postinst Nov 21 16:28:53 (but do not forget to delete it with postremove Nov 21 16:28:55 ) Nov 21 16:33:37 I settled with making setup.py move the file to /usr/tmp and then making debian/rules make the destination directory of where I want the file to go, run mv to move that file from tmp and place it in my destination and then rm -rf to remove the tmp folder Nov 21 16:35:02 hmm Nov 21 16:36:15 you should add a few more move steps in there Nov 21 16:36:24 you know, to keep it interesting Nov 21 16:36:49 * qwerty12 offers Proteous a package that runs rm -rf / :P Nov 21 16:37:24 * Proteous tries to run it as not root Nov 21 16:37:30 man, this package sucks Nov 21 16:51:18 is there a way to make the application manager quit telling me an application isn't from nokia when I try to install something? Nov 21 16:57:20 bye Nov 21 16:58:02 qwerty12: I need to avail myself of your excellent postinst skills Nov 21 16:58:41 I made a metapackage that changes the name of lsbc to personal clock, and this works fine. Shows up in the application manager and everything. Nov 21 16:59:07 Brilliant. :) Nov 21 16:59:20 * qwerty12 doesn't have any postinst skills :) Nov 21 16:59:22 The problem is, it remove lsbc from the statusbar (because I renamed the library files) and doesn't put personal clock in Nov 21 16:59:36 Okay, sed skills then. Nov 21 17:00:01 Ah, pybattery thread? Nov 21 17:00:15 I want to see if I can add the proper lines in ~/.osso/hildon-desktop/statusbar.conf Nov 21 17:00:18 Yep :) Nov 21 17:01:00 Otherwise the user has to go back into control panel and reselect the statusbar entries. Nov 21 17:01:14 That's not the worst thing in the world, but I would rather not have to go through that. Nov 21 17:01:42 sed probably could replace the name of your old desktop file with the name of your new one, you'd just have to remember to chown back to user:users when done Nov 21 17:03:22 I guess I would have to do that in the presint script of the large-statusbar-clock package, because otherwise those line will be gone Nov 21 17:09:08 qwerty12: Probably a pretty basic question, but what would the sed line be to replace all instances of "large-statusbar-clock" with "personal-clock" in the file /home/user/.osso/hildon-desktop/statusbar.conf Nov 21 17:10:32 s/^large-statusbar-clock/personal-clock/g should do it Nov 21 17:11:00 * qwerty12 isn't that great at sed btw :/ Nov 21 17:12:46 Well, better some experience than no experience :) Nov 21 17:13:00 :) Nov 21 17:17:08 Thanks for the starting point Nov 21 17:18:23 * Mousey huggles his decent amount of space finally on his n810 Nov 21 17:18:31 No problems (Personal Launcher, Personal Menu & Large Statusbar Clock user) *grin* :) Nov 21 17:23:25 * Khertan [W2I=000:u:0:000:] Nov 21 17:25:02 Hi again Nov 21 17:25:36 someone know how to use connic lib to know which connection is active ? Nov 21 17:29:24 http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/11/woz_segway_pee.jpg Nov 21 17:29:35 priceless Nov 21 17:29:37 Hah Nov 21 17:31:48 RST38h: lol Nov 21 17:33:29 * qwerty12 is pleased to know that hildon-desktop shits out when running an app with a dodgy desktop file Nov 21 17:33:59 ? Nov 21 17:34:04 are u sure ? Nov 21 17:34:35 Khertan_n810, Yeah, just commented out 2 lines relating to starting up the app with dbus, works now. I think osso-type is wrong... Nov 21 17:34:48 i don t get crash when desktop file is wrong Nov 21 17:34:54 just get nothing Nov 21 17:34:56 no log Nov 21 17:35:04 very easy to fix Nov 21 17:35:51 this why most of the time a small app is 50% time to code it Nov 21 17:35:51 and the rest to make the .desktop file working Nov 21 17:36:00 hehe Nov 21 17:36:16 Don't think dbus likes an "-" in the service name Nov 21 17:39:43 Yep, "-" is not allowed. Nov 21 17:45:00 qwerty12: In the pybattery thread, you have an if; then; fi statement. What does xMandatory=true mean? Nov 21 17:45:08 if [ x$12MandCheck = xMandatory=true ]; then Nov 21 17:46:05 fiferboy, I check to see if the line has already been commented as an "insurance policy" of hildon-desktop reactivating the original battery applet. If the mandatory line has not been commented out, then sed is run to comment it out Nov 21 17:47:05 Ah, gotch. If I do: 12MandCheck=`cat $qConfFile |grep large-statusbar-clok` Nov 21 17:47:17 And then: if [x$12MandCheck ]; then Nov 21 17:47:37 Would that execute the if statement only if a result was found for the grep? Nov 21 17:47:46 yep Nov 21 17:48:09 If the file contains #Mandatory=true, then sed isn't run Nov 21 17:48:31 Superb. I'll give it a try. Thanks! Nov 21 17:48:40 :) Nov 21 18:07:56 Stskeeps, i was still having problems with my wang, it only appeared to be resolved Nov 21 18:09:57 still not 100% sure what you're talking about Nov 21 18:09:57 :P Nov 21 18:10:06 Stskeeps, his wang! Nov 21 18:12:30 Stskeeps, my printer at work Nov 21 18:13:15 why what else could it be? Nov 21 18:14:43 i was either thinking a penis or a diskless terminal.. Nov 21 18:14:44 :P Nov 21 18:15:02 * qwerty12 thought penis too but i'm a dirty bastard anyway :P Nov 21 18:15:09 heh Nov 21 18:15:19 you missed the first convo qwerty Nov 21 18:15:32 ah :) Nov 21 18:15:34 it was much longer and more indepth Nov 21 18:15:44 i think i even made sts wince Nov 21 18:25:49 noone want to write a good simple gtk audio player ? Nov 21 18:26:05 that can be use with finger ? Nov 21 18:26:26 canola eat too many ressources Nov 21 18:26:38 Heh, I just want an music player that is light on resources so here I am compiling each part of mpd with opts... Nov 21 18:26:51 the default one use that stupid metalayer crawler db Nov 21 18:27:14 which is desactived on my nit Nov 21 18:27:34 Khertan_n810, did you read about the c++ compiler for flash? Nov 21 18:27:37 as 10min of wait each time i use usb Nov 21 18:27:49 Tried youamp? I wouldn't call it finger friendly but it's not bad on resources + it's written in python Nov 21 18:27:56 c++ compiler for flash ? Nov 21 18:28:13 qwerty12> yep not finger friendly Nov 21 18:29:02 yeah, inline c++ code gets compiled and ran within the flash, opens up some extra doors Nov 21 18:29:29 lcuk2 : flash ? the things used to display only ads on web site ? and eating cpu ? Nov 21 18:30:07 heh khertan, yes - i wasnt thinking from the flash perspective though, its an interesting proposal if applied to something like python Nov 21 18:30:10 qwerty12> maybe i could do finger friendly fork Nov 21 18:30:17 :) Nov 21 18:30:33 http://www.cs.tut.fi/~ask/cinpy/ Nov 21 18:30:35 flash and python ? uh ... Nov 21 18:30:43 strange idea Nov 21 18:31:03 lcuk2, the screenshot is interesting :) Nov 21 18:31:15 w8 ... Nov 21 18:31:17 yeah :D Nov 21 18:31:18 it s loading Nov 21 18:31:30 ah ... bump ... browserd is dead Nov 21 18:31:37 so it s doesn t load Nov 21 18:31:37 i only mentioned the flash one because it made big news this week Nov 21 18:31:47 but i'd seen the python one first Nov 21 18:31:52 Khertan, as root, /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon force-reload Nov 21 18:32:03 Bye, takeaway time *grin* :) Nov 21 18:33:38 holy moly, from another perspective, the tcc library it uses appears to be 10x faster than gcc \o/ Nov 21 18:36:43 lcuk2: not really impress Nov 21 18:36:58 heh, it makes me think about other things :) Nov 21 18:37:00 this add dependancy Nov 21 18:37:17 and make code more unreadable Nov 21 18:37:23 so maintainable Nov 21 18:37:49 psycho is a better way i think Nov 21 18:38:04 of course it does in your case, whats psycho? Nov 21 18:38:56 ahhh python compiler Nov 21 18:39:09 7260 user SW 40112 1 0.0 5431.5 browserd Nov 21 18:39:19 nice memory optimization Nov 21 18:39:30 5431 % of memory use Nov 21 18:39:42 i understand why my nit lag so much Nov 21 18:40:02 and this without any browser window open Nov 21 18:41:30 * Khertan_n810 is thinking of a way to display the sync progress in mcalendar Nov 21 18:41:48 without using so many precious screen space Nov 21 18:42:02 is sync a background operation? Nov 21 18:42:27 and with enough information to not let s the user think that the sync process is locked Nov 21 18:42:31 hmm, any good tools for checking how a MMC is doing? Nov 21 18:42:35 lcuk2: yep Nov 21 18:43:09 Khertan_n810, then just have a throbber (like desktop browser) active and circling whilst its going Nov 21 18:43:30 clicking the throbber should of course bring up a dialog showing actual progress Nov 21 18:43:32 Stskeeps: fsck.fat or fsck.msdos Nov 21 18:43:44 mm, this thing runs ext3 so :P Nov 21 18:43:49 was more thinking on the block level Nov 21 18:43:59 hum ... not a bad idea Nov 21 18:45:38 Khertan_n810, http://angrycatproductions.blogspot.com/2007/08/animated-gif-for-tango-throbber.html Nov 21 18:48:03 does gtk support animated gif in a gtk.button container ? Nov 21 18:48:20 i ll try :) Nov 21 18:48:49 * Khertan_n810 is loading glade (yep on the nit) Nov 21 18:49:01 yeah ive seen you try that one before ;) Nov 21 18:49:18 you have the same madness gene as me :P Nov 21 18:51:28 back Nov 21 18:51:46 yea, let us rename to #assorted-nuts Nov 21 18:52:35 hum ... gif load ... with an white background Nov 21 18:52:42 and doesn t loop Nov 21 18:52:53 anim is play on time Nov 21 18:53:10 maybe some property can fix this Nov 21 18:53:40 ok, well you will find your own way, hopefully it will help Nov 21 18:54:28 thx _) Nov 21 18:54:30 :) Nov 21 18:55:20 Khertan_n810, hows the rest of it going, is it looking and feeling good yet? Nov 21 18:55:46 but if browser use it maybe i should for a native widget Nov 21 18:56:01 lcuk2 : i need to fix some sync glitch Nov 21 18:56:19 add a sync log Nov 21 18:56:24 and the autosync feature Nov 21 18:56:30 Khertan_n810, it was the idea more than the specific. the throbber type animated image lets people know something is happening Nov 21 18:56:47 yep :) Nov 21 18:57:02 but the project is around 80% finish Nov 21 18:57:10 i already use it all day :) Nov 21 18:57:18 can you display sync progress without it being background - to try and identify fault Nov 21 18:57:21 nice! Nov 21 18:57:33 yep error is logged Nov 21 18:57:35 that 20% is always the hardest ;) Nov 21 18:57:40 yep Nov 21 18:58:09 and yep there is communication between the main ui and the bg sync Nov 21 18:58:19 process Nov 21 18:58:20 i made a mistake at work today and put the ui in place before the background code, the boss got all excited, i had to reign him in Nov 21 18:58:31 hehe Nov 21 18:58:58 for mcalendar 0.5 ... i ve started by writing the framework Nov 21 18:59:04 then the sync module Nov 21 18:59:09 then the ui Nov 21 18:59:13 heh yeah, principle core elements Nov 21 18:59:14 and after the prefs Nov 21 18:59:55 and i ve found a way for the problem of opening new windows which is slow :) Nov 21 19:00:07 virtual windows Nov 21 19:00:29 hmmm, ive never had a problem with slow windows Nov 21 19:00:48 (a gtk.vbox where widget are hide and show) Nov 21 19:01:04 lcuk2: because you don t use python :) Nov 21 19:01:11 * lcuk2 throws up a little bit Nov 21 19:01:18 nahhhh, i use python apps Nov 21 19:01:27 they arent all dog slow Nov 21 19:01:28 this is like the loading ... the first launch of the ui take arround 90s ... Nov 21 19:01:47 when i launch it the first time Nov 21 19:01:47 :O holy mother of underpoweredness Nov 21 19:01:55 after several weeks of code Nov 21 19:02:32 but a way is loading primary things in the main gtk.loop Nov 21 19:02:37 i was complaining about the 0.5s delay when changing resolution Nov 21 19:02:54 and the other in a separate process Nov 21 19:03:23 Khertan_n810, what language do you write in for your day job? Nov 21 19:03:37 haha ... not python ... :) Nov 21 19:03:39 is it python or (let me guess) .net Nov 21 19:03:48 something more ... Nov 21 19:03:53 oooh gfi Nov 21 19:03:53 How to say Nov 21 19:04:00 proprietary Nov 21 19:04:08 not very well know Nov 21 19:04:10 :D heh Nov 21 19:04:14 the kracken Nov 21 19:04:19 it s french language Nov 21 19:04:28 made by a french company Nov 21 19:04:35 4D Nov 21 19:04:41 name : 4D Nov 21 19:05:02 it s a rad and a language ... but also a database _) Nov 21 19:05:25 http://www.4D.com Nov 21 19:05:51 but their plan to leave 4d in one or two year ... Nov 21 19:06:33 and some people in direction think to do the future version with c#.net Nov 21 19:06:44 * lcuk2 shudders Nov 21 19:06:45 but as i m the project leader Nov 21 19:06:59 i ll try to force python / gtk Nov 21 19:07:02 () Nov 21 19:07:04 if you leave 4d do you evolve into 5d? Nov 21 19:07:06 heh Nov 21 19:07:13 yes on windows :) Nov 21 19:07:14 im not sure which would be slower ;) Nov 21 19:07:42 .net of course ... :) Nov 21 19:08:07 * lcuk2 was told today that .net didnt like it when you used sql server to create queries and views and that inline sql on a grid was the way forward Nov 21 19:08:17 yesterday my director ask for a prototype of an app ... Nov 21 19:08:39 for a future project Nov 21 19:08:58 and i do one in one day in pygtk Nov 21 19:09:35 while they have ask to two guy to do a prototype which deliver it today Nov 21 19:09:38 heh, its always good to be comfortable enough with a language that its like putty in your hands Nov 21 19:09:52 and their c#.net ui was very ugly Nov 21 19:10:14 it let me think of the win 3.1 win Nov 21 19:10:44 i tihnk you can make stunning looking .net apps, but the IDE and the speed of the final thing and the complexities of things are diabolical Nov 21 19:10:56 glade and some nice icon set and something to override the gui gtk theme is a good thing Nov 21 19:11:25 how good is printing support and interoperability with office and stuff? Nov 21 19:11:48 lcuk2: you can ... but it s not fast or you do it fast by using proprietary module/lib which cost money Nov 21 19:12:20 * lcuk2 sticks with visual basic ;) Nov 21 19:12:20 lcuk interoperablity on c#.net with ms office seems good Nov 21 19:12:31 nahhh, its not all its cracked up to be Nov 21 19:13:09 but not with oo Nov 21 19:13:14 the interop libraries it has to create seem targeted at specific versions, i can write stuff once and it will talk to any version of office all the way back to '97 Nov 21 19:13:17 which is a require Nov 21 19:14:28 do you know any ms apps which do compatible with old version ? Nov 21 19:14:44 s/compatible/compatible format Nov 21 19:15:07 what do you mean? Nov 21 19:15:07 word craps the page layout Nov 21 19:15:12 each time Nov 21 19:15:52 open an ms office word document created on word 2003 on office word xp Nov 21 19:16:01 page layout is fucked Nov 21 19:16:10 for the stuff one of our customers needs it works and is used everyday for their docs, it only crapped out once when they tried to save a template as '07 docx (when run on one of the older machines in the company) Nov 21 19:16:12 do it the otherway ... same things Nov 21 19:17:01 and ... better ... with the same version running on on computer using xp and an other running vista ... Nov 21 19:17:12 you ll not get the same render Nov 21 19:17:16 well vista just screws things up all on its own Nov 21 19:17:20 s/on/one Nov 21 19:20:28 * Stskeeps uploads first Mer i386 pacakge.. Nov 21 19:23:43 hmm, when you're booting from SD, do you really need to have a FAT partition at all? Nov 21 19:24:14 to stop maemo from annoying you, year Nov 21 19:24:17 yeah Nov 21 19:24:21 it seems like you could store all your stuff in MyDocs or a second SD card Nov 21 19:24:44 hrm, what does maemo do if if can't find a FAT partition? Nov 21 19:25:13 say the card is corrupted Nov 21 19:25:51 hrm, that's too bad Nov 21 19:26:39 so maybe penguinbait's 3 partition setup does make sense Nov 21 19:27:08 any idea where the performance boost from using a dedicated swap partition would reveal itself? Nov 21 19:27:26 i think someone said recently swap files are as fast as partitions these days Nov 21 19:27:33 Stskeeps: i still don't understand... are you compiling maemos packages for multiple architectures? Nov 21 19:28:11 Meizirkki: yup Nov 21 19:28:20 ok Nov 21 19:28:41 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint Nov 21 19:28:57 i386 is a demand from my work so Nov 21 19:29:04 okay Nov 21 19:29:19 we -might- eventually follow jaunty's lead though Nov 21 19:29:24 but let's keep our options open Nov 21 19:32:11 this sounds really good =P Nov 21 19:33:23 is this the proper channel for figuring out how to enable core dumps on n810? Nov 21 19:33:49 Meizirkki: ubuntu on ones old 400mhz could be cool :P Nov 21 19:34:16 mmatth, make a folder called core-dumps on the root of either memory card Nov 21 19:35:40 did that, but who's specifying that the dumps should show up there? i tried editing /sys/proc/kernel/core_pattern to specify the location & name but on reboot the file is empty again Nov 21 19:36:03  Nov 21 19:36:03 mmatth, read /mnt/initfs/linuxrc Nov 21 19:38:37 i see enable_coredumps in there and it specifies the core_pattern, but if that is running then why would /sys/proc/kernel/core_pattern be of size 0 Nov 21 19:49:51 If i did clone to SD, and i install deblet.. would it make it .. flash, SD, deblet. .. in boot menu? Nov 21 19:51:34 in the world where penguinbait supports bootmenu.d, yeah Nov 21 19:51:56 no like would it replace, or just add an entry? Nov 21 19:54:34 it would replace in the menu ideally Nov 21 19:54:44 you would have to make your own .item Nov 21 19:54:52 is quite easy, really Nov 21 19:55:27 just want to try it. got a new 4gb SD card. but i dont want it to screw up anything i already have. Nov 21 19:55:47 trying out cloning or? Nov 21 19:55:59 no i already have cloned to SD Nov 21 19:56:01 trying out deblet. Nov 21 19:56:03 ah :P Nov 21 19:56:17 meh.. i would for Mer personally Nov 21 19:56:20 deblet is so 90s now Nov 21 19:56:21 :P Nov 21 19:56:26 Mer? Nov 21 19:56:31 +wait Nov 21 19:56:41 yeah, the maemo reconstructed thing we're working on Nov 21 19:56:45 it has a lot more potential Nov 21 19:56:54 i know, but i was told it still has alot of work Nov 21 19:57:01 sure Nov 21 19:57:01 swell Nov 21 19:57:14 i was told not to try it yet Nov 21 19:57:19 well if you install deblet i'll help you with the .item :P Nov 21 19:59:04 (dont start flashiing when you're done with install) Nov 21 19:59:35 qwerty12_N800: you want to design Mer's initfs? :> Nov 21 19:59:35 i dont currently have wifi at home ;p Nov 21 19:59:40 ah Nov 21 19:59:41 :P Nov 21 20:01:01 i bought the n800 thinking i had a wifi router at home, but my dad said it broke Nov 21 20:01:35 Stskeeps, I'm a bad scripter :P (but still willing). But what's planned to be different about mer's initfs compared to deblet's one? :) Nov 21 20:01:56 zakkm: you use internet via bluetooth or usb cable? Nov 21 20:02:13 dont have bluetooth but could that work .. i could buy a dongle? Nov 21 20:02:20 qwerty12_N800: first off non-nokia specific.. and the problematique if we want it to be an alternative root partition or a initfs Nov 21 20:02:25 I have Mac OSX... i was told usb cable wouldnt work? Nov 21 20:02:35 zakkm, yep you need that... Nov 21 20:02:44 theres bluetooth for internet? Nov 21 20:02:48 would it work on Mac OSX? Nov 21 20:03:08 if enable_coredumps is being run in /mnt/initfs/linuxrc then why would /sys/proc/kernel/core_pattern be of size 0 ? Nov 21 20:03:24 cause there is no dumps yet? :P Nov 21 20:03:28 Stskeeps, ahh.. But how can bme/dsme be replaced? Nov 21 20:03:46 zakkm: if you have mac osx you should be able to easily create wifi ap? Nov 21 20:03:58 pc doesnt have wifi though Nov 21 20:04:05 okay Nov 21 20:04:23 is there a way to get usb networking working?' Nov 21 20:04:33 so that only occurs when core is about to be dumped? Nov 21 20:04:34 i don't know hoe to set bt-net in mac Nov 21 20:04:34 qwerty12_N800: also a good discussion - BME would for example be vendor provided, so it would just be executed as part of a init script or something Nov 21 20:04:41 nah, usb-net Nov 21 20:05:38 i guess i could install xp ? Nov 21 20:05:40 zakkm: what about buying wifi dongle? Nov 21 20:05:46 would rather not though Nov 21 20:06:01 is all i have to do is buy a wifi dongle.. attach to pc Nov 21 20:06:05 and thats it? theorically Nov 21 20:06:09 zakkm, usb-net does not work at all in xp Nov 21 20:06:17 ? Nov 21 20:06:28 it worked in 2000, on a school pc? Nov 21 20:06:47 with a 770? Nov 21 20:06:49 if you use mac, there should be ability to easily share internet via wlan Nov 21 20:06:51 n800 Nov 21 20:06:59 i mean like Nov 21 20:07:04 is that all i need... a wifi dongle for pc? Nov 21 20:07:11 not talking software work Nov 21 20:07:27 you could try it but the kernel has broken musb Nov 21 20:07:40 no it did work in school.. Nov 21 20:07:48 but i dont have windows at home Nov 21 20:08:06 windows is crap Nov 21 20:08:12 what does usb networking require then? Nov 21 20:08:17 lol Nov 21 20:08:30 i got linux installed on a seperate partition, but its quite uhh not finished? Nov 21 20:08:31 i have never been able to set up bt-net in windows... Nov 21 20:08:39 Meiz_n810, true :). but openoffice will never replace ms office for me Nov 21 20:08:45 i wouldnt like to dualboot though, just to use usbnetworking Nov 21 20:08:56 Meiz_n810, same. g_serial works though Nov 21 20:09:01 MS 2003 .. is the best office suite :P Nov 21 20:09:23 2007 with classic menu addon :P Nov 21 20:09:27 If i boot into linux, can you guys help me out with usb networking? Nov 21 20:09:31 theres a classic menu addon? Nov 21 20:09:51 yer, shareware but you know me... Nov 21 20:09:51 oh that is sick Nov 21 20:09:56 just google'd it Nov 21 20:10:02 never seen that before Nov 21 20:10:10 okay maybe that might be best Nov 21 20:15:17 If i boot into linux, could you guys help me with usb networking? Nov 21 20:30:13 Hi ! Nov 21 20:32:16 hi Nov 21 20:32:27 how do i do the nokia n800 usb networking in linux? Nov 21 20:33:12 hum Nov 21 20:33:36 I think you have to download a package like usb-networking or a stuff like that Nov 21 20:33:38 I check Nov 21 20:33:54 zakkkm_n800: on maemo side or on linux side? Nov 21 20:34:00 both? Nov 21 20:34:12 i just booted into linux, and attached my nokia by usb Nov 21 20:34:23 isnt that a chicken and egg problem - need to download stuff over the network to setup networking Nov 21 20:34:59 weird, internet cut off Nov 21 20:35:13 on maemo side : maemo-control-usb Nov 21 20:35:50 i think i got that? Nov 21 20:35:56 was that in like extras? Nov 21 20:36:01 on the linux side, I don't know Nov 21 20:36:30 i have not tested, but i believe it should work via the same bridge i used for bluetooth pan Nov 21 20:36:33 This tool is seen on the control panel Nov 21 20:36:43 yeah Nov 21 20:36:45 i have it there Nov 21 20:36:53 in control panel Nov 21 20:37:05 don(t you see any usb networking there ? Nov 21 20:37:22 you have to set it up first Nov 21 20:37:27 i do Nov 21 20:37:29 but it doesnt work Nov 21 20:37:34 says module insertion failed Nov 21 20:38:00 hum, well, I don't know then Nov 21 20:38:00 sorry Nov 21 20:38:13 zak__: at computer side, install iptables, bridge-utils Nov 21 20:38:34 k give me two seconds Nov 21 20:38:43 okay they're installed Nov 21 20:38:54 Meiz_n810: now what? Nov 21 20:38:56 with me it worked as is but I sure I already had packages for that Nov 21 20:39:09 with Nov 21 20:39:14 *wait Nov 21 20:39:36 okay, sorry :( Nov 21 20:39:53 np Nov 21 20:40:07 add these lines into /etc/network/interfaces Nov 21 20:40:15 http://pastebin.com/d2034f064 Nov 21 20:40:20 i dont have that folder Nov 21 20:40:22 /etc/network Nov 21 20:40:39 ? Nov 21 20:40:55 what distro you use? Nov 21 20:41:25 arch Nov 21 20:41:42 trying to google arch's equivalent Nov 21 20:42:20 this should work with debian based distros... Nov 21 20:42:30 i know Nov 21 20:42:36 i dont have a debian based distro Nov 21 20:42:45 i got network.d though Nov 21 20:42:49 which supposely does the same Nov 21 20:42:59 okay Nov 21 20:43:22 is there interfaces inside that dir? Nov 21 20:43:44 no but i think im suppose to make one? Nov 21 20:44:05 no, it might not work Nov 21 20:44:09 A profile is a single text file in /etc/network.d which defines variables used by netcfg. The file name will become the name of the profile, and can be anything you wish, it is not a setting involved in the connection. Nov 21 20:44:41 i guess im installing ubuntu? Nov 21 20:45:03 if you want :P Nov 21 20:45:11 well it doesnt look like this is working Nov 21 20:45:33 i have only tested this with bluetooth and ubuntu... Nov 21 20:45:42 i dont have bluetooth :( Nov 21 20:46:01 ill buy one this weekend i suppose. Nov 21 20:46:06 with little modifications it should work with usb too Nov 21 20:46:28 wait, Stskeeps: how do you do usb networking with linux? Nov 21 20:46:47 i got a ubuntu server 7.04 disc? Nov 21 20:46:52 zak__: modprobe usb0, ifconfig usb0 inet 192.168.2.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 gets me machine->usb atleast.. Nov 21 20:46:56 usb/nokia Nov 21 20:47:22 on nokia? Nov 21 20:47:24 i dunno how the usb control thing on nokia works Nov 21 20:47:29 on linux Nov 21 20:47:33 modprobe usbnet, that is Nov 21 20:47:39 would that probably work for me now? Nov 21 20:47:46 possibly Nov 21 20:47:59 you might have to take out the cable again after modprobe though Nov 21 20:48:02 and insert again Nov 21 20:48:11 i know how to make a bridge, if that is needed Nov 21 20:48:13 modprobe usbnet worked? Nov 21 20:48:17 (in ubuntu) Nov 21 20:48:51 usb0 no such device ;p Nov 21 20:49:23 insert cable again? Nov 21 20:49:30 and is the usb control set correctly at the nokia? Nov 21 20:49:51 uhh Nov 21 20:49:52 problem Nov 21 20:49:54 i unplugged usb Nov 21 20:49:57 rmmod g_file_storage and insmod g_ether on the tablet Nov 21 20:49:59 but my nokia still thinks a usb is in Nov 21 20:51:01 how do i fix that? :( Nov 21 20:51:06 what qwerty12_N800 said Nov 21 20:51:06 :P Nov 21 20:51:43 g_file_storage no such directory? Nov 21 20:52:02 lsmod has g_ether in it? Nov 21 20:52:07 ^ Nov 21 20:52:24 oui Nov 21 20:52:27 yes Nov 21 20:52:34 why does it say its connected by usb... its not Nov 21 20:52:36 i unplugged it Nov 21 20:52:41 its a gadget Nov 21 20:52:44 ifconfig usb0 up Nov 21 20:52:59 ifconfig usb0 inet 192.168.2.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 Nov 21 20:53:00 on tablet Nov 21 20:53:03 do i attach by usb for this? Nov 21 20:53:50 nah, just before i guess Nov 21 20:54:25 ok it worked? Nov 21 20:54:28 now what? :P Nov 21 21:09:01 Would bluetooth headsets work on the nokia n800 ? Nov 21 21:09:12 for voice chats?/ listening Nov 21 21:09:46 think so, yeah Nov 21 21:09:55 not for a2dp though Nov 21 21:09:56 well Nov 21 21:10:01 ? Nov 21 21:10:02 a2dp? Nov 21 21:10:21 you know so you have crystal clear sound.. compared to bluetooth headsets Nov 21 21:10:30 and a2dp isn't supported natively yet in the os Nov 21 21:10:34 KILL. KILL. Nov 21 21:10:37 DESTROY? Nov 21 21:10:38 ..? Nov 21 21:10:42 so poor sound quality? Nov 21 21:10:48 ABORT, RETRY, FAIL? Nov 21 21:10:59 zakkm: never actually tried so :P Nov 21 21:11:13 * aquatix never understood the difference between abort and fail Nov 21 21:11:16 zakkm, sound like a cellphone call Nov 21 21:11:17 thought it would be cool to get a call from google talk and be like answer.. and talk thru a headset ;p Nov 21 21:11:18 ^ Nov 21 21:11:37 zakkm: you can Nov 21 21:11:42 aquatix, EXACTLY what i was going to say :P Nov 21 21:11:49 qwerty12_N800: lol Nov 21 21:11:52 abort .. to quit by choice ... fail = you lost without a choice Nov 21 21:12:00 i think ;p Nov 21 21:12:21 aquatix: bluetooth headset though? Nov 21 21:12:42 zakkm: yeah Nov 21 21:12:48 times 2 :) Nov 21 21:12:48 sweet im getting one Nov 21 21:13:00 aquatix: ABORT - stop action, exit Nov 21 21:13:13 aquatix: FAIL - return failure status to the caller Nov 21 21:13:34 yeah, figured Nov 21 21:13:44 but still a tad odd to bother the user with Nov 21 21:14:14 aquatix: It came from CP/M times. Users were geeks then. Nov 21 21:14:24 Nerds even. Geeks are a different, lesser breed Nov 21 21:15:43 mm. cp/m Nov 21 21:15:48 would bt-net work on mac? Nov 21 21:15:56 my friend offered to sell me a bluetooth adapter for $5 ? Nov 21 21:16:28 Meiz_n810: what are the positive sides of jaunty so far? Nov 21 21:16:31 haggle and buy it for $3! Nov 21 21:16:41 lol Nov 21 21:16:44 $5 doesnt matter ;p Nov 21 21:16:47 but would it work through mac? Nov 21 21:17:15 Who knows? Nov 21 21:17:18 Who cares? Nov 21 21:17:23 ? Nov 21 21:17:24 steve jobs might Nov 21 21:17:25 i have mac osx? Nov 21 21:17:28 on both questions Nov 21 21:17:40 zakkm: it is not a Mac forum. Nov 21 21:17:45 i know Nov 21 21:17:47 zakkm, try it - i dont use mac so i wouldnt know Nov 21 21:17:51 but im referring to bt-net ... Nov 21 21:18:02 not would a bluetooth adapter work on mac Nov 21 21:18:05 i know it will work Nov 21 21:18:06 GeneralAntilles seems to own a Mac - ask him if he is around. Nov 21 21:18:22 but can i use bt-net on my nokia.. to connect to the mac? Nov 21 21:18:56 if you try it we will know Nov 21 21:19:05 until then we can't answer ;) Nov 21 21:19:26 maybe google will know Nov 21 21:19:56 i thought you guys were the keepers of everything NIT Nov 21 21:20:21 Nit - yes, Mac - no Nov 21 21:20:38 ;p Nov 21 21:21:53 yes, qwerty has nits Nov 21 21:22:05 do any of you know a free voip service that works for calling landlines? :P ( free ) ? Nov 21 21:22:09 Stskeeps: comparing to debian-armel: it does not show me I/O errors if my tablet crashes in the middle of installing software. Comparing to mojo: this far, i don't really know.... i have to just play aroud a littlebit more Nov 21 21:22:10 aiii!!! Nov 21 21:28:31 Meiz_n810: how about boot speed? Nov 21 21:29:01 with jaunt, it feels littlebit faster... Nov 21 21:29:07 not sure Nov 21 21:29:14 k Nov 21 21:29:27 jaunty is newer anyway =P Nov 21 21:29:31 well i guess it depends if you have dash or bash :P Nov 21 21:29:38 anyone point me to where i can get ruby/libruby for diablo? i tried the chinook packages here http://pupnik.de/ruby.html but libssl0.9.7 is required, and diablo has a newer version Nov 21 21:32:11 Stskeeps: with jaunty, it is weird that my tablet have now crashed 2 times when installing ubuntu-desktop and CPU is set to performance mode. Nov 21 21:32:40 zakkm: what is bt-net? Nov 21 21:32:47 bluetooth networking Nov 21 21:32:50 i heard that exists? Nov 21 21:33:12 bluetooth file sharing worked on my mac back in chinook, i haven't tried it lately though Nov 21 21:33:19 Meiz_n810: on power or without? Nov 21 21:33:23 as in, charging Nov 21 21:33:49 why would you use bt-net instead of wifi though? Nov 21 21:36:20 Since nobody has complained about personal-launch in extras-devel, I'm going to promote it. Nov 21 21:37:01 l7: dont have wifi at home Nov 21 21:37:08 l7: able to get a bluetooth adapter for $5 Nov 21 21:37:30 It fixes eero's memory leak Nov 21 21:38:40 Stskeeps: now 3 times. there is something wrong with gconf2 Nov 21 21:38:52 fiferboy, :) Nov 21 21:39:32 Meiz_n810_: odd Nov 21 21:39:37 Well, it was fixed less than 24 hours after it was found (and a couple hours after I got details on how to reproduce) Nov 21 21:40:14 I am definitely in favour of informing developers of misbehaving applications, rather than spontaneously demoting from extras Nov 21 21:40:49 fiferboy: voicing your views on mailing list will definately help on developing the process :) Nov 21 21:41:17 I guess I should get on that mailing list... Nov 21 21:41:50 * zakkm wants to know how to join this mailing list Nov 21 21:43:04 zakm- bluetooth networking (pand) is not easy to setup on the nokia, and bluetooth dialup is not easy to setup at home, so you are better off investing in a crappy $10 wifi router Nov 21 21:43:30 using pc's internet.. on the nokia.. through bluetooth Nov 21 21:43:33 not the other way around Nov 21 21:43:46 yes, that's what i said Nov 21 21:44:54 ah, sorry. Nov 21 21:45:03 i cant find a $10 router Nov 21 21:46:46 zakkm: have you tried using your mac as an ad hoc wifi access point? Nov 21 21:47:01 i dont have wifi... Nov 21 21:48:36 don't get me wrong, it can work, but it's not novice level even with the new pand packages Nov 21 21:48:59 but instead of bt, you're much better served by wifi. i bought a cheap linksys at the source for $15 with tax in 2006, i'm sure you can get a used wifi router from a friend. Nov 21 21:49:32 nah, i've tried.. and $15 is too much. i just recently bought ram and a new 4gb SD like two days ago Nov 21 21:49:40 im on a highschool student budget Nov 21 21:49:51 hey, is there a way to turn ilbc's to wavs/mp3? Nov 21 21:49:59 i couldnt even find one for $15 Nov 21 21:53:09 guysoft42, rfc 3951 has fully functional source example for encoding/decoding ilbc Nov 21 21:53:31 wnd, is there a linux command tool? Nov 21 21:54:02 I once built a makefile to strip the sources from it and wrote frontends for the libraries Nov 21 21:54:29 I was supposed to release the sources to public but I never got past figuring out proper licence Nov 21 21:55:59 matrx: do you know of any docs for the pand-setup procedure? Nov 21 21:55:59 if you can figure out the legal issues I'd gladly release my part of the thing Nov 21 21:56:00 re Nov 21 21:57:31 hey, is it possible to enable transparent background for the Nokia on Xchat ? Nov 21 21:58:00 i setup maemo-pan using the docs on the wiki Nov 21 21:58:18 i tried to setup maemo-pan using the docs in the wiki - and failed... Nov 21 21:58:58 was it using the script or using the dummy device? Nov 21 21:59:08 dummy device Nov 21 21:59:39 the other end of the pan is a windows mobile 6 device Nov 21 22:00:03 was your nap paired and listed as your phone under the control panel? that part took me forever Nov 21 22:01:12 or rather, how far have you gotten so far? Nov 21 22:01:54 i select the dummy connection, in the upper right corner: connected to "myphone" Nov 21 22:02:17 hmm, works now Nov 21 22:02:44 seems like my windows device had needed the reboot in the morning ;) Nov 21 22:02:50 i found it was somewhat flakey, sometimes it doesn't connect, sometimes it times out Nov 21 22:04:08 i need to usually reboot my winmo6 phone after a broken or timed out pan connect or i get unexpected results Nov 21 22:04:14 and the nit Nov 21 22:05:00 just writing over pan... Nov 21 22:14:21 hmm, fun daemon project Nov 21 22:15:06 listen to activity/inactivity signals on dbus, eat up /proc, complain about app that consumed cpu above a threshold while idle Nov 21 22:16:04 have a neat little db of user-understandable strings to present for each process that's likely to occur and isn't self-explanatory Nov 21 22:16:10 (say, hildon-desktop) Nov 21 22:16:11 Hahaha Nov 21 22:16:23 That thread on -users would be priceless if it weren't so frightening. Nov 21 22:16:32 link? Nov 21 22:17:16 the hell? Nov 21 22:17:51 http://maemo.org/community/maemo-users/ is a pretty nice compact list, it turns out Nov 21 22:18:14 although, if a thread spans multiple days, where will it appear -- on the starting day? Nov 21 22:18:45 (or, say, the last active day) Nov 21 22:21:50 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2008-November/023123.html Nov 21 22:22:21 lol Nov 21 22:22:50 how would maemo reconstruct be to use it? Nov 21 22:23:13 zakkm: hildon or whatever desktop you want to run, ideally Nov 21 22:23:26 fvwm-crystal .... Nov 21 22:23:44 does wifi ands tuff work fine? Nov 21 22:23:46 battery life? Nov 21 22:23:53 that's the goal. Nov 21 22:23:56 we're still experimenting :P Nov 21 22:24:01 does it work fine currently though? Nov 21 22:24:16 right now it's kinda like humping a concrete wall Nov 21 22:24:29 not entirely unpleasant but not fullfilling in any way Nov 21 22:24:59 (ie, developer only :P) Nov 21 22:25:40 GeneralAntilles: ahh, excellent stuff Nov 21 22:30:43 * sp3000 wonders what plausible useful purpose mark might have in mind in posting to the list Nov 21 22:33:38 why server crashes and mailing list flames happen always on a Friday evening? Nov 21 22:33:40 He's like a more distinctly evil and less sane version of Darius Nov 21 22:33:50 qgi1, one wonders. Nov 21 22:33:58 is Mark or sebas in this chat room, any chance? Nov 21 22:34:06 qgi1, personally I think it's a grand conspiracy by Nokia to keep the little guy down. ;) Nov 21 22:34:10 qgi1: to make administrators want to go out and drink in town when it's fixed, and be social :P Nov 21 22:34:37 qgi1, and, no, I don't believe they are. Nov 21 22:34:43 whatever Nov 21 22:35:20 better leave it during the weekend, maybe by Monday Maemo has been also th cause of the global crisis Nov 21 22:35:21 qwerty12 should just upload all of his pen-testing tools to Extras. Nov 21 22:36:45 that said, maybe the repos reduction task should have some refinement to try to make sure packages don't fall off the edge of the map like in this case Nov 21 22:36:48 grrrr i always think pen-testing is something touch related Nov 21 22:36:55 hiya qgi1 Nov 21 22:37:00 or, that the reasons for it are documented Nov 21 22:37:02 sp3000, it's totally on the repository owners. Nov 21 22:37:16 The process was: move your packages to Extras, close your repo. Nov 21 22:37:36 Which most owners who have closed their repos have done. Nov 21 22:38:17 Anyway, I'm pretty sure I can get qwerty12 to upload kismet, so (at least for this particular case) it may reduce the insanity a bit. Nov 21 22:39:28 * Stskeeps makes a mental note to steer way clear of that thread Nov 21 22:39:46 yeah, I just wonder if there could be some way to handle orphaned packages more visibly so that it's clear that they need a maintainer and aren't just being ignored or something Nov 21 22:39:55 I'm going to fly over with my 747 full of lake water and never look back. ;) Nov 21 22:40:15 * Stskeeps goes back to branching and compiling. Nov 21 22:40:20 or, the status on eko.one just says CLOSED, no tracking of what happened to the packages Nov 21 22:40:22 but isn't he talking about Kismet for the 770? aka OS2006? Nov 21 22:40:41 I'm not sure if it's feasible in practice to do that tracking Nov 21 22:40:53 http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Reducing_number_of_external_repositories Nov 21 22:41:12 Well, that's a general overview of what percentage of packages had been moved at the time of the request. Nov 21 22:41:35 oh, right, thre's a number Nov 21 22:41:58 But, yes, that information isn't particularly well structured or detailed. Nov 21 22:42:27 I think the particular problem here is that most people want to do the Right Thing, and the Eko1 owner just didn't care. Nov 21 22:42:36 extras shouldn't be in green when sp3000, well, it's not Extras that's green, it's the old repository's status. Nov 21 22:43:31 maybe he hasn't been active since the Mistral times... and when he got the request to move to the new extras he simply closed down the shop Nov 21 22:43:54 yeah yeah it's the row, ut if you read it less generously you could interpret it as this being a positive outcome Nov 21 22:44:00 qgi1, that's my feeling. Nov 21 22:44:30 yeah that sounds likely, I can't remember that being mentioned in a sort of recent context Nov 21 22:44:47 sounds reasonable qgi1, as I attempted to point out in the mail. people move on, but maemo.org will remain and anyone who can should try to get stuff into extras Nov 21 22:44:51 the root of the site only mentions 770 Nov 21 22:46:21 lcuk: and this definately illustrates the need for centralized extras.. people move on Nov 21 22:46:46 (except with the maemo.org getting run over by a bus scenario, but yeah) Nov 21 22:47:16 yeah Stskeeps its a fact of life, and these nokia devices will remain in peoples hands for years to come, it would be nice to know my software will still be installable and runnable without having to jump through hoops Nov 21 22:47:17 anyway, I won't answer there until Monday. My work laptop is at the office and I don't feel like answering from my mobile phone. :) Nov 21 22:48:38 qgi1, secret touchscreen model by any chance? Nov 21 22:48:53 Hehe Nov 21 22:52:22 lcuk: an E71 actually Nov 21 22:52:43 nice piece of hardware, I must say Nov 21 22:52:55 yes, lots of people raving :) Nov 21 22:55:43 hi qgi1 Nov 21 22:56:06 bbiab anyway (hiya and bye florian) Nov 21 22:56:13 cya later qgi1 Nov 21 22:56:26 lcuk: hi and cu Nov 21 22:57:03 bye Nov 21 22:57:11 me too zzzzzz Nov 21 23:35:18 hey, is there a way to get pycard running on maemo? Nov 21 23:50:32 he Nov 21 23:54:26 who is there? Nov 21 23:54:32 me Nov 21 23:54:37 but i dont think i matter ;p Nov 21 23:56:21 oh yeah... i think the same for me... really, i'm not here Nov 21 23:56:39 * aquatix doesn't matter that much either Nov 21 23:56:58 * GeneralAntilles declares the whole room useless. Nov 21 23:57:00 i even wonder what i'm still doing here at this time Nov 21 23:57:01 Now we're all equal. :P Nov 21 23:57:06 yay Nov 21 23:57:11 aquatix, insomnia? :P Nov 21 23:57:19 creating it, yes ;) Nov 21 23:58:26 for gadgets, some deem it worth it... Nov 21 23:58:36 dreams creates the insomnia of the next day.. Nov 21 23:58:48 touching. Nov 21 23:58:53 ;p Nov 21 23:59:07 GeneralAntilles: you have Mac OSX right? Nov 21 23:59:11 eye-on-pixel: that bad ey? Nov 21 23:59:17 zakkm, yes. Nov 21 23:59:28 did you get usb or bluetooth networking ever working? Nov 22 00:00:54 someone has one n800 with the battery drain problem? Nov 22 00:01:25 ..with a diablo inside, i mean... Nov 22 00:01:57 zakkm, Bluetooth should be dead easy. Nov 22 00:02:02 ~bluetooth-pan Nov 22 00:02:03 bluetooth-pan is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PAN Nov 22 00:02:18 You may have to manhandle it a bit to get it to accept a computer as a client Nov 22 00:02:23 but the PAN setup is Leopard is dead simple Nov 22 00:02:31 Check maemo-users for a thread about it. Nov 22 00:03:31 thanks.. Nov 22 00:03:51 k thanks Nov 22 00:03:56 going to get the adapter tomorrow then Nov 22 00:22:10 in music playback, how long do you think the n800 will last? Nov 22 00:22:20 music playback, screen off.. Nov 22 00:28:12 screen makes a big difference for battery Nov 22 00:28:26 10 hours Nov 22 00:37:37 * Stskeeps taps his fingertips on the table waiting for launchpad Nov 22 00:40:58 oh cool :) Nov 22 00:41:15 would mpd playback help vs the builtin media player.. in terms of battery life? Nov 22 00:41:44 GStreamer will be the most efficient MP3 playback. Nov 22 00:41:49 not mpd? Nov 22 00:42:20 mpd gave some insanely low cpu usages on my pc Nov 22 00:42:36 mm. <3 gmail's new "Terminal" theme. Nov 22 00:42:56 zakkm, DSP usage. Nov 22 00:43:05 ? Nov 22 00:43:09 what is DSP exactly? Nov 22 00:43:18 zakkm: digital signal processor Nov 22 00:43:27 * zakkm is a fan of shiny for gmail Nov 22 00:43:46 Hurts my eyes. Nov 22 00:44:15 so gstreamer is better than mpd for nokia? Nov 22 00:44:22 Stskeeps: low?! mpd is using crazy cpu on mine Nov 22 00:44:35 i said it was giving low ;p Nov 22 00:44:41 on desktop pc? Nov 22 00:44:43 not for me Nov 22 00:44:45 yeah Nov 22 00:44:45 not nokia Nov 22 00:44:53 it gave me like 0.3% on my old pc Nov 22 00:44:58 sonata + mpd Nov 22 00:45:03 like 26% cpu usage on amd64 X2 4400+ Nov 22 00:45:08 somethings wrong ;p Nov 22 00:46:07 nice pc :) Nov 22 00:46:10 x2 4400+ Nov 22 00:46:50 should give like 0.05% for mpd ;p Nov 22 00:48:00 yep Nov 22 00:48:10 it's an old pc now, almost 2 years :) Nov 22 00:58:13 does anyone know here Christoph Wֳrstle? Nov 22 00:58:32 Christoph Würstle* Nov 22 01:11:35 hm, when was icd closed btw? Nov 22 01:25:15 Dunno Nov 22 01:25:17 OS2007, maybe? Nov 22 01:25:34 k Nov 22 01:25:58 * Stskeeps ponders what implication/ease having i386 mer will have on our development Nov 22 01:26:45 at least we'll know compilation problems before making arm boxes compile away.. :P Nov 22 01:31:08 oh well another question - can i just solder two usb female connectors to make a female-female adapter? because they dont seem to be selling them here.. Nov 22 01:32:04 you shouldn't need a female-female adapter Nov 22 01:32:48 are you one of those people who think if they could just fine the right addaptor they could totaly plug their 240v washing machine into the 120 plug and all thier problems would be solved Nov 22 01:33:08 has anyone noticed problems when rebooting while the charger is plugged in? Nov 22 01:33:20 always Nov 22 01:33:23 Proteous, no.. but i do live in the land of 240V Nov 22 01:33:46 yeah, I figured that might happen about halfway through that sentence Nov 22 01:33:47 Proteous, so what do i need to cross the cable road to usbhost? Nov 22 01:33:55 it does not really reboot when charger is plugged in Nov 22 01:33:57 l7, what sort of problems Nov 22 01:34:20 when charging the nokia tablets are in a half booted state Nov 22 01:35:13 they dont' shut down all the way while plugged in Nov 22 01:35:31 GeneralAntilles: like rendering the device unbootable Nov 22 01:35:54 make sure you hold in the power button for a while Nov 22 01:36:23 l7, don't turn it off. Nov 22 01:36:25 That's the best solution. Nov 22 01:36:43 on the n810 you have to hold the power button long enough for the blue light to be on for about 2 seconds before releasing it Nov 22 01:36:48 i noticed you cannot perform a turn off and turn the device on while it's plugged in Nov 22 01:37:17 Proteous: same thing on the N800 Nov 22 01:37:22 l7, right Nov 22 01:37:24 It has to be booted to charge. Nov 22 01:37:26 Just leave it on. Nov 22 01:37:58 Proteous, so what do i need to get usb host? if not a female-famale adapter? Nov 22 01:38:02 guysoft42: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14092 Nov 22 01:38:27 ~usb-host Nov 22 01:38:35 that's what made me wonder if issuing a reboot command while plugged in could cause issues Nov 22 01:38:45 wow just got in the right conversation Nov 22 01:38:59 https://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode Nov 22 01:39:03 that too Nov 22 01:39:45 i have root and i have the hardware set up what do i do next to see a flash drive on 770 Nov 22 01:40:56 something to power the flash drive Nov 22 01:41:14 770s don't give any power out the USB socket Nov 22 01:41:30 so you have to either go through a powered hub or rig something up yourself Nov 22 01:41:32 does the hildon desktop crash alot for anyone else? Nov 22 01:41:37 no Nov 22 01:41:53 what device do you have 17 Nov 22 01:41:56 i have a hub and f-f connector Nov 22 01:42:02 Proteous, isnt there a sainer way for this? Nov 22 01:42:24 is it a problem being formated fat32 Nov 22 01:43:02 Proteous: n800 - usually it's the thinkoutside keyboard that crashes the device Nov 22 01:43:09 guysoft42: did you see: https://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode Nov 22 01:43:40 guysoft42: it has some links to premade cables as well as some software solutions Nov 22 01:43:43 do i have to download drivers Nov 22 01:43:52 l7, yeah, and that fucking bug is WONTFIX Nov 22 01:43:54 Lame shit. Nov 22 01:44:08 GeneralAntilles, yes, it doess not seem to have much hardware info/ Nov 22 01:44:24 guysoft42, click the links. . . . Nov 22 01:44:30 by a "dumb" connector they mean a famale-female adaptor? Nov 22 01:44:31 The guy will ship anywhere Nov 22 01:44:37 Nice premade cables. Nov 22 01:44:56 GeneralAntilles: i was afraid of that. why won't they fix it? Nov 22 01:45:04 l7, low priority Nov 22 01:45:06 I don't know. Nov 22 01:45:12 I can't get the Desktop team to fix any of my bugs. Nov 22 01:46:07 bleh, maybe their fix is to get an n810 Nov 22 01:46:49 l7, same crash. Nov 22 01:48:01 GeneralAntilles, how do you contact the persion? Nov 22 01:48:05 GeneralAntilles: does it usually happen if you hit a lot of keys on they keyboard before bluetooth connects? Nov 22 01:50:50 http://www.electronicproductonline.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35_67&products_id=2004 http://www.electronicproductonline.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35_67&products_id=2043 Nov 22 01:51:06 l7, I had the suspicion, but testing never really confirmed it. Nov 22 01:51:23 when does it crash for you? Nov 22 01:51:46 Sometimes when the keyboard reconnects. Nov 22 01:51:54 about 1 out of 5 times. Nov 22 01:52:16 i can usually get the desktop to crash consistently if i enter a lot of keystrokes before bluetooth fully connects Nov 22 01:52:48 does the keyboard bug ever force your tablet to shut down? Nov 22 01:53:02 No Nov 22 01:53:05 Just desktop crashes. Nov 22 01:53:09 Doesn't crash anything critical Nov 22 01:53:10 hrm Nov 22 01:53:28 GeneralAntilles: do they ship to canada? Nov 22 01:53:38 maybe a certain combination of keys that sends a shutdown signal Nov 22 01:53:43 zakkm, they're in Canada. Nov 22 01:53:57 can you get your desktop widgets back without rebooting after a desktop crash? Nov 22 01:53:58 ever bought from them Nov 22 01:54:02 the usb ethernet one seems worth it Nov 22 01:54:11 i've noticed OM weather refuses to come back without a full reboot Nov 22 01:54:19 how come OM weather doesnt work for me? Nov 22 01:54:25 i installed it but toronto doesnt show up? none do Nov 22 01:54:29 it doesn't work at all? Nov 22 01:54:29 and when i enter, nothing happens Nov 22 01:54:37 it works but it doesnt let me set a location Nov 22 01:54:40 so it becomes useless Nov 22 01:54:50 have you tried entering other zip codes? Nov 22 01:54:54 no Nov 22 01:55:01 dont believe so Nov 22 01:55:03 let me get my nokia Nov 22 01:55:05 i know US zipcodes work, not sure if canadian ones will Nov 22 01:55:36 i gtg.. i saved the links for now Nov 22 01:55:47 l7, widgets are harder, you have to reselect them from the menu. Nov 22 01:55:49 you might try airport codes too if zipcodes don't work in canada Nov 22 01:56:03 Custom applets can be re-added by opening Panels in Control panel and taping OK. Nov 22 01:56:47 it's usually easier for me to reboot unless i'm running something Nov 22 01:57:25 i think trying to reenable OM weather may crash the tablet or desktop, i don't really use it now Nov 22 01:58:37 oh yeah, that reminds me enabling the temperature sensor on OM weather seems to cause boot issues Nov 22 01:59:04 i guess i'm free to experiment with it now since i am booting from SD Nov 22 01:59:16 if it doesn't corrupt the system beyond the SD card Nov 22 02:01:32 Never had real issues with OMWeahter. Nov 22 02:02:24 have you used the temperature sensor feature yet? Nov 22 02:02:42 maybe backup your system before trying it though Nov 22 02:03:20 Used it for a while, no issues. Nov 22 02:03:31 I don't have any desktop applets enabled at the moment, though. Nov 22 02:03:41 now i wonder if the hardware on all tablets is exactly the same or if i've messed up my tablet somehow Nov 22 02:03:58 it could be a problem that only crops up with certain combinations of programs though Nov 22 02:04:08 which is probably more likely Nov 22 02:04:28 i did install about half the stuff from extras last time to test drive things Nov 22 02:05:10 I doubt it's the hardware Nov 22 02:05:15 do you use any custom applets like the advanced backlight or statusbar clock? Nov 22 02:05:22 I'd be more inclined to blame certain combinations of software Nov 22 02:05:29 and some hardware accessories (BT keyboards, etc) Nov 22 02:05:49 could SD cards cause issues? Nov 22 02:05:51 could anyone help me? i connected to a wifi but nothings working? Nov 22 02:05:53 Um, Advanced Backlight (duh :P), Advanced Power and Personal Menu. Nov 22 02:05:54 i got assigned a ip Nov 22 02:06:20 just this specific wifi hotspot Nov 22 02:06:25 hrm advanced power sounds neat, haven'tr tried that Nov 22 02:06:34 l7, crappy SD cards might cause issues, but you'll see it as filesystem errors on boot Nov 22 02:06:39 Not likely to just cause instability. Nov 22 02:06:41 zakkm: i take it this is your neighbor's wifi? Nov 22 02:06:49 yes Nov 22 02:07:02 worked in the past Nov 22 02:07:06 I have advanced-backlight, personal-menu, personal-launcher, countdown-home, large-statusbar-clock, load-applet, omweather, and home-calendar all running with no issues... Nov 22 02:08:01 zakkm: they might be doing various things to keep you out Nov 22 02:08:10 no huh, i checked router settings Nov 22 02:08:11 or maybe there's just no IP addresses free Nov 22 02:08:24 who would of thought they didnt change the password from default Nov 22 02:08:27 everything is fine Nov 22 02:09:32 fiferboy_n810: on an n810 only? Nov 22 02:10:48 i wonder if it was the home menu items that measure free diskspace and cpu speed Nov 22 02:11:46 or any of the half a dozen media players or other apps i had installed Nov 22 02:13:03 Yes, n810 only Nov 22 02:15:44 i think the hardware's mostly the same between the n800 and n810 but i guess it could be a variable Nov 22 02:18:08 Mhm, getting rid of the built-in Jabber client and Gizmo etc would require going to red pill mode, eh? Nov 22 02:19:17 towo, why would you want to get rid of rtcomm? Nov 22 02:19:24 Gizom just requires removing a .desktop file Nov 22 02:19:34 GeneralAntilles: It's a dredge as I'm not using it. Nov 22 02:19:56 Don't really need rtcomm running if I just fire up pidgin for im. Nov 22 02:20:01 towo, it doesn't do anything if you're not using it. Nov 22 02:20:17 You're likely to break things ripping it out, anyway. Nov 22 02:20:22 GeneralAntilles: Well, in theory, the status bar icon annoys me. ;) Nov 22 02:20:35 towo, disable your accounts. Nov 22 02:20:39 Or remove that .desktop. . . . Nov 22 02:20:50 /usr/share/applications/ Nov 22 02:20:59 yeah, where they usually are.. Nov 22 02:21:13 Thanks, I'll just disable the accounts, then. Nov 22 02:22:15 GeneralAntilles: Oh, and trying not to get people to take the red pill probably won't help with people complaining when they break things regardless. :) Nov 22 02:22:36 Better than people recommending it left and right. Nov 22 02:22:49 Guess so. Nov 22 02:22:51 Obviously people will always complain Nov 22 02:23:04 but fewer people will use it if it's strongly recommended against by the majority of the community Nov 22 02:23:07 so fewer complaints Nov 22 02:23:10 Pretty simple. :) Nov 22 02:23:18 Well, there's a logic to that, yeah. Nov 22 02:23:52 Actually, I've just got it turned off because I don't like browsing the overblown application list in the installer when I turn it on. Nov 22 02:23:53 My goal is "fewer people breaking their tablets due to bad advice" rather than "fewer complaints I have to deal with". :) Nov 22 02:24:04 Bit of a pain in the arse on the small display. Nov 22 02:24:26 Mhhm. Nov 22 02:24:37 Well, that, and it's much more sane to just use apt/dpkg when you run into a wall with h-a-m. . . . Nov 22 02:24:44 * towo ponders whether there are any possibilities for video output not involving a vnc server. Nov 22 02:25:12 nx? Nov 22 02:25:15 Remote Desktop? Nov 22 02:25:22 Well, yes. When I get the bluetooth keyboard. My N810's keyboard is nice, but not being able to touch type annoys me. Nov 22 02:25:22 USB-to-VGA adaptor Nov 22 02:25:27 But that's ridiculously slow at the moment. Nov 22 02:25:44 USB to VGA, more likely. I was thinking stand-alone, without computer support.. Nov 22 02:25:56 Or, if you're ridiculously capable around BGAs, you could open it up and solder some leads onto the correct pins Nov 22 02:26:00 then write some kernel drivers. Nov 22 02:26:16 Since having a box stand by would make it sillily easy, and we can't have that. Nov 22 02:26:52 I leave the soldering stuff to the hardware guys in the CCC. My hands are too shaky for that precision, anyway. Nov 22 02:29:01 what's the CCC? sounds like a fun place Nov 22 02:30:44 Chaos Computer Club. German hackerish joint. Nov 22 02:31:13 And a bit of a motivator for all that hacker space jazz exploding in the .us right now. ;) Nov 22 02:31:26 heh Nov 22 02:31:37 (hackerspaces.org, btw) Nov 22 02:31:51 * Mousey huggles hackerspaces Nov 22 02:32:01 CCC has done some very, very cool stuff Nov 22 02:32:02 ah, they sound familiar. there's a chaos computer something event every year isn't there? Nov 22 02:32:06 Or you can just come to the 25th Chaos Communication Congress, the annual CCC event hosted in Berlin, Germany. Nov 22 02:32:36 oh yeah i must be thinking of the chaos communications thing Nov 22 02:32:56 Well, we tend to do name crossovers. Nov 22 02:33:01 there are a lot of interesting hackerspaces in europe Nov 22 02:33:23 CC is Chaos Computer Club, Chaos Communication Congress, and the Chaos Communication Camp. ;) Nov 22 02:33:26 +C Nov 22 02:37:53 hrm, is the use of the ext2 filesystem liable to wear your SD card faster when booting from SD? Nov 22 02:38:33 l7, as opposed to? Nov 22 02:38:54 JFFS2? Nov 22 02:39:04 Not on an SD card Nov 22 02:39:10 jffs2 is only for unmanaged NAND Nov 22 02:39:11 as long as you go for noatime.. Nov 22 02:39:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFFS2 mentions wear leveling which is interesting Nov 22 02:39:23 Which is default now. Nov 22 02:39:39 l7, SD cards are managed NAND Nov 22 02:39:44 i noticed the internal flash is JFFS2 Nov 22 02:39:45 they handle their own wear-levelig Nov 22 02:40:00 The internal NAND is un-managed, meaning it doesn't have a chip to wear level for it Nov 22 02:40:11 so it needs filesystem-level wear leveling. Nov 22 02:40:22 ah Nov 22 02:40:46 is ext2 the fastest choice for booting from SD? Nov 22 02:41:29 Well, your options are pretty much EXT2 or EXT3 Nov 22 02:41:37 EXT3 has the advantage of being more stable Nov 22 02:41:44 But will have more writes. Nov 22 02:41:44 Ubuntu people are currently fawning over JFS in general, but I don't know what that one does to a SD card. Probably nothing good. And I guess maemo doesn't do it. Nov 22 02:42:07 GeneralAntilles: Only using writeback journalling helps there. Nov 22 02:42:34 Well, if the fs is corrupted you wont have to fsck on boot. Nov 22 02:42:36 Which is helpful Nov 22 02:42:39 er, after a crash. Nov 22 02:42:48 If the journal's clean, mind. ;) Nov 22 02:42:49 oh yeah, could ext3 with writeback be faster than ext2? Nov 22 02:42:59 well, no. Nov 22 02:43:06 you still write journalling data all the time. Nov 22 02:43:12 Just not as much. Nov 22 02:43:37 ah Nov 22 02:43:54 (writeback journalling only syncs whatever the syncing process is accessing to the journal, whereas ordered journalling dumps everything active to the journal) Nov 22 02:44:00 hey, i just noticed that holding the home key down for a second or two takes you straight to the desktop Nov 22 02:46:21 hrm, i heard something about performance advantages from using writeback somewhere, i guess that was the idea Nov 22 02:46:54 Well, yes Nov 22 02:47:02 But compared to ext3 ordered. Nov 22 02:47:21 You really want writeback journalling with a firefox three running, for example. Nov 22 02:47:47 Since that bloaty bugger does TWO fsyncs every time you browse to a new URL. Nov 22 02:49:39 yeah firefox 3 seems a bit bloated in general Nov 22 02:50:01 Well, the problem is that it uses an sqlite database for their visited URLs Nov 22 02:50:21 Which they use for the new-fangled history and the "most visited url" features etc Nov 22 02:50:50 But their implementation goes around, does an fsync before opening the database, then opens the db and writes the data, closes it, and then fsyncs again. Nov 22 02:51:10 Because it would be TERRIBLE if you lost just one URL due to data inconsistency!!11oneeleven Nov 22 02:51:21 oh yeah, that's the whole awesomebar idea Nov 22 02:51:38 there's probably an option in about:config to disable it Nov 22 02:52:02 Wouldn't be so sure about that. Nov 22 02:52:10 I mean, I like the bar. It's quite useful. Nov 22 02:52:14 But the implementation... ugh. Nov 22 02:52:40 yeah it's handy at time Nov 22 02:52:43 s Nov 22 02:52:43 Just like this bloaty bugger fennec, which doesn't perform at all on my N810. Nov 22 02:52:59 Early alpha, give it time. ;) Nov 22 02:53:05 Yeah, well. Nov 22 02:53:07 heh, most of the time microb is too slow for my tastes Nov 22 02:53:09 It still uses XULRunner. Nov 22 02:53:19 i can't imagine fennec if it is worse Nov 22 02:53:20 Yeah, there is that. <_< Nov 22 02:53:21 30MB Nov 22 02:53:27 Also, slowness. Nov 22 02:53:40 l7, well, MicroB is still a hacked up alpha 1. Nov 22 02:53:41 "Hey, look, fully modular XML interface!" Nov 22 02:54:07 towo, that said, I think it'll likely be really slick on the next generation of hardware. Nov 22 02:54:16 GeneralAntilles: I hope so. Nov 22 02:54:24 GeneralAntilles: are there any alternatives to it that are faster? Nov 22 02:54:31 We just need some C8s with PadLocks. ;) Nov 22 02:55:04 l7, well, an optimized WebKit would be better. Nov 22 02:55:23 There's no project like that in the pipe, is there? Nov 22 02:55:36 But A. There are no good interfaces currently available and B. The WebKit that's actually optimized is from November last year. Nov 22 02:55:43 Bundyo is working on Tear Nov 22 02:55:51 Which is a WebKit browser written in Vala Nov 22 02:56:01 He's made good progress so far, but it's still a ways off. Nov 22 02:56:09 Hope remains. Nov 22 02:56:29 There's still lots of room for improvement with MicroB Nov 22 02:56:46 Like I said, it's based on the first Firefox 3 alpha Nov 22 02:56:59 Definitely. I'm still amazed how slow most browsers are today (on any platform) Nov 22 02:57:05 Yeah. :\ Nov 22 02:57:21 I tend to get a bit shocked when booting Windows and actually seeing Firefox get its arse up. Nov 22 02:57:22 Browsers get more efficient, computers get faster, and the web just compensates. Nov 22 02:57:26 well, there's always lynx :) Nov 22 02:57:35 Or, even worse, Google Chrome. That bugger's lightning fast. Nov 22 02:57:58 Guess I should try to find one of those alternate JavaScript engines and recompile my Iceweasel with it.. Nov 22 02:58:00 Still waiting on the OS X release. . . . Nov 22 02:58:20 Well, I have a Windows Vista for Ze Gamingz. Nov 22 02:58:39 Hehe Nov 22 02:58:49 I'm on a PPC Mac. Nov 22 02:58:49 GeneralAntilles: Snow Leopard? what features are you expecting? Nov 22 02:58:57 (On a side note, I just finished Dead Space.) Nov 22 02:59:13 I do almost all of my gaming on consoles these days. Nov 22 02:59:19 Still in the middle of Dead Space Nov 22 02:59:27 I only have so much tolerance for games like that. Nov 22 02:59:33 hah, i have a PPC mac as well Nov 22 02:59:36 l7, OpenCL sounds really awesome. Nov 22 02:59:45 I still need to find money for a Mac Pro between now and then, though. :( Nov 22 02:59:45 Yeah, in the beginning, I could only play for twenty minutes or so at a time. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 22 02:59:56 2008