**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 22 02:59:56 2008
Nov 22 02:59:59 <GeneralAntilles> I'm just hoping they finally manage to stomp out those bugs that've been lying around for the past 5 years.
Nov 22 03:00:16 <l7> i'd be surprised if 10.6 supports PPC
Nov 22 03:01:02 <l7> usually the first few point releases of OS X bring more bugs
Nov 22 03:01:22 <GeneralAntilles> Well, the plan for Snow Leopard was to stick to fixing existing stuff rather than load up on new features.
Nov 22 03:01:29 <GeneralAntilles> I'm really hoping they finally fix the Finder.
Nov 22 03:01:44 <GeneralAntilles> towo, Fallout 3 has been eating away at my life lately.
Nov 22 03:01:56 <GeneralAntilles> When was the last PPC box shipped?
Nov 22 03:01:59 <GeneralAntilles> 2006?
Nov 22 03:02:15 <towo> GeneralAntilles: Oh yeah, I lost two weekends and some evenings to that.
Nov 22 03:02:16 <GeneralAntilles> 10.5 expired support stuff ~2000-2001 stuff
Nov 22 03:02:20 <zakkm> GeneralAntilles: you think google chrome is coming out any time soon?
Nov 22 03:02:28 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, not a clue.
Nov 22 03:02:40 <GeneralAntilles> s/stuff/for/
Nov 22 03:02:51 <GeneralAntilles> towo, I think I'm 35 hours in.
Nov 22 03:03:12 <GeneralAntilles> Really disappointed by the main quest ending the game.
Nov 22 03:03:15 <GeneralAntilles> Compared to Oblivion.
Nov 22 03:03:27 <GeneralAntilles> So I started over again. ;)
Nov 22 03:03:40 <towo> GeneralAntilles: I'm guessing fifty hours or something for exploration up to about 95%ish percent, and then I got bored and finished the main quest..
Nov 22 03:03:43 <towo> Yeah..
Nov 22 03:03:55 <towo> The problem with Oblivion was that I did the main quest quite late.
Nov 22 03:04:04 <towo> Which meant that I was mostly yawning while hacking through the masses.
Nov 22 03:04:28 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Nov 22 03:04:46 <towo> Only had a problem when fighting the last main quest mission, since the Kingie just died off without asking me for permission.
Nov 22 03:04:49 <towo> Bastard.
Nov 22 03:05:23 <towo> In the end, I just had to berserk through the madness to save His Royal Behind.
Nov 22 03:05:36 <towo> For whatever that was worth.
Nov 22 03:05:49 <GeneralAntilles> l7, I'm really hoping the Finder going Cocoa is going to improve things.
Nov 22 03:06:10 <zakkm> Snow Leopard is going to be sick :)
Nov 22 03:06:14 <l7> yeah, a fixed finder would be nice
Nov 22 03:06:19 * zakkm bought a 8500GT two weekes ago, getting ready for OpenCL
Nov 22 03:07:09 <l7> i wonder how many people will shell out for a bigfix release though
Nov 22 03:07:22 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Nov 22 03:07:22 <zakkm> it will be a huge performance boost too
Nov 22 03:07:23 <zakkm> ;p
Nov 22 03:07:32 <l7> how huge?
Nov 22 03:07:36 <zakkm> dont know
Nov 22 03:07:41 <zakkm> but we're know by time of release :P
Nov 22 03:07:48 <GeneralAntilles> Woo, meltdown on -users!
Nov 22 03:07:49 <zakkm> then people will decide
Nov 22 03:07:57 * towo secretly brandishes his 8800 Ultra.
Nov 22 03:08:01 <l7> apple's benchmarks will says it's 3000 percent i think
Nov 22 03:08:12 <zakkm> lol
Nov 22 03:08:15 <zakkm> fake benchmarks?
Nov 22 03:08:19 * GeneralAntilles shakes his head.
Nov 22 03:08:22 <zakkm> even if its like 150% ill do it ;p
Nov 22 03:08:29 <l7> apple always exaggerates their benchmarks
Nov 22 03:08:35 <GeneralAntilles> I remember when an 8500 was a Radeon AGP card. :P
Nov 22 03:09:05 <l7> i wonder if it makes sense to hold off on buying a new mac until the 10.6 releas
Nov 22 03:09:17 <l7> which is happening on macworld i guess
Nov 22 03:09:31 <GeneralAntilles> http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/
Nov 22 03:09:40 <zakkm> they're suppose to annouce the OpenCL results next month ;p
Nov 22 03:09:55 <GeneralAntilles> l7, probably depends on what you're buying.
Nov 22 03:10:10 <l7> probably a macbook
Nov 22 03:10:48 <l7> of course by then, maybe new macbooks will be out in 2-3 months, so why not wait a little more? :)
Nov 22 03:10:49 <GeneralAntilles> l7, buy, buy, buy! ;)
Nov 22 03:11:13 <l7> heh
Nov 22 03:11:25 <l7> actually i wish i caught the back to school sale
Nov 22 03:11:33 <towo> CONSUME!
Nov 22 03:11:36 <towo> Be a loyal fanboy!
Nov 22 03:11:53 <l7> i really prefer the old macbooks to the new ones which probably have bugs to be discovered
Nov 22 03:11:54 * towo got an iPod by the way of present recently
Nov 22 03:12:06 <l7> heh, good job keeping the economy going
Nov 22 03:12:12 <GeneralAntilles> l7, Apple's hardware is disturbingly variable.
Nov 22 03:12:14 <towo> It's amusing how insistently iTunes tries to push an iTunes account unto you.
Nov 22 03:12:41 <l7> i must be a really crappy fanboy since i haven't updated my hardware for over four years
Nov 22 03:12:47 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Nov 22 03:12:58 <GeneralAntilles> Summer 2004 2x2.5GHz G5 here. . . .
Nov 22 03:13:03 <zakkm> :O
Nov 22 03:13:06 <zakkm> G5!
Nov 22 03:13:11 <zakkm> were so expensive
Nov 22 03:13:14 <l7> ooh macpro
Nov 22 03:13:27 <GeneralAntilles> I worked 60 hours a week that summer to buy that thing.
Nov 22 03:13:41 <l7> GeneralAntilles: what do you mean by variable?  is the first gen stuff sometimes bug free?
Nov 22 03:13:50 * zakkm struggles to work a 12 hour week , as a student
Nov 22 03:14:02 <GeneralAntilles> l7, well, sometimes it's really excellent, sometimes it's bizarrely broken.
Nov 22 03:14:13 <GeneralAntilles> I worked 30-40 a week in high school.
Nov 22 03:14:21 <l7> i still remember the heatsink fiasco with the early macbooks
Nov 22 03:14:31 <zakkm> i used to work 25-30 hrs a week
Nov 22 03:14:33 <GeneralAntilles> Or the overheating iMac drives.
Nov 22 03:14:34 <zakkm> im still in 12th grade
Nov 22 03:15:10 <l7> not entirely surprising considering they outsource all their manufacturing
Nov 22 03:15:30 <l7> consistent quality would be nice considering that they charge though
Nov 22 03:15:52 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Nov 22 03:16:03 <GeneralAntilles> The price disparity is actually a lot less prominent at the high end.
Nov 22 03:16:10 <l7> yeah
Nov 22 03:16:12 <l7> have you compared the cost of buying and keeping a mac versus cycling your hardware yearly?
Nov 22 03:16:19 <GeneralAntilles> Compare a Mac Pro to an equivalent Dell and you come out on top
Nov 22 03:16:25 <GeneralAntilles> The problem is with the low end stuff.
Nov 22 03:16:37 <l7> i think it might be cheaper to cycle yearly and sell your stuff used on the low end
Nov 22 03:16:52 <zakkm> Mac OSX is nicer though :) so its worth it
Nov 22 03:16:54 <GeneralAntilles> I never sell hardware
Nov 22 03:17:02 <GeneralAntilles> I paid about $3200 for my tower.
Nov 22 03:17:04 <zakkm> l7: what about Hackintosh method
Nov 22 03:17:08 <l7> yikes
Nov 22 03:17:11 <GeneralAntilles> I'm a little over 4 years in now.
Nov 22 03:17:17 <zakkm> thats too much .;p
Nov 22 03:17:19 <zakkm> $3200
Nov 22 03:17:26 <GeneralAntilles> $800 a year
Nov 22 03:17:35 <l7> zakkm: i wouldn't really trust a hacked up OS not to eat my tax reports
Nov 22 03:17:46 <GeneralAntilles> I'd probably be spending about $1200 every 2 years for a custom-built PC rig.
Nov 22 03:17:51 <zakkm> its not hacked up?
Nov 22 03:17:57 <zakkm> can use official mac disc?
Nov 22 03:18:09 <l7> zakkm: i guess it depends on the hardware you have
Nov 22 03:18:11 <GeneralAntilles> I'm probably replacing this one when I graduate in 2 years.
Nov 22 03:18:28 <l7> don't you still need to do some workarounds even if you're using an offical disk?
Nov 22 03:18:37 <zakkm> no
Nov 22 03:18:41 <zakkm> i used official mac disc :P
Nov 22 03:18:48 <l7> er, really?
Nov 22 03:18:53 <l7> but PCs don't have EFI
Nov 22 03:19:00 <zakkm> you install a bootloader first ;p
Nov 22 03:19:09 <l7> just a bootloader?
Nov 22 03:19:12 <zakkm> yeah
Nov 22 03:19:22 <l7> wow, that's neat
Nov 22 03:19:23 <GeneralAntilles> Ooh, don't bring up EFI and make me sad about Open Firmware, l7. :(
Nov 22 03:19:33 <zakkm> PC-EFI they call it
Nov 22 03:19:36 <zakkm> or Chameleon..
Nov 22 03:19:38 <l7> heh
Nov 22 03:20:10 <l7> GeneralAntilles: yeah why did they get rid of Open Firmware anyway?
Nov 22 03:20:22 <GeneralAntilles> Cheaper
Nov 22 03:20:31 <zakkm> it required PPC didnt it?
Nov 22 03:20:32 <l7> i have to admit i've usually been too scared to boot into it and risk bricking my mac
Nov 22 03:20:36 <GeneralAntilles> EFI isn't quite as expensive as basically rolling your own.
Nov 22 03:20:45 <GeneralAntilles> Since they're not making their own mobos anymore.
Nov 22 03:20:52 <zakkm> boot into what?
Nov 22 03:20:53 <GeneralAntilles> Better to use something which Intel can basically just hand to you.
Nov 22 03:21:02 <l7> zakkm: into openfirmware
Nov 22 03:21:29 <l7> i guess openfirmware can do some neat things
Nov 22 03:21:47 <l7> it's there in the dustbin next to firewire
Nov 22 03:22:06 <l7> and HDMI i gueess
Nov 22 03:22:28 <Juhaz> zakkm, no, it didn't require PPC. Would've been mighty hard for Sun to originally invent it for SPARCs if it did.
Nov 22 03:22:47 <zakkm> oddly never tried solaris :P
Nov 22 03:23:31 <l7> one day i'll found a computer company called Orange, and we'll bring firewire and open firmware back :)
Nov 22 03:24:49 <l7> isn't there a free version of solaris?
Nov 22 03:24:52 <GeneralAntilles> Sad to see Firewire die.
Nov 22 03:25:09 <l7> yeah, i guess it makes sense considering the price
Nov 22 03:25:35 <l7> i think the firewire group kinda screwed Firewire out of the gate because of their licensing fees
Nov 22 03:26:02 <l7> it does seem like the better standard for data
Nov 22 03:26:29 <GeneralAntilles> yeah
Nov 22 03:26:38 <l7> well firewire or gigabit ethernet
Nov 22 03:26:43 <GeneralAntilles> The nice thing is that the controller is capable of handling "client to client" connections.
Nov 22 03:27:00 <GeneralAntilles> Whereas USB has the whole host/client setup
Nov 22 03:27:07 <GeneralAntilles> With the slightly hackish OTG as a way around it.
Nov 22 03:27:33 <GeneralAntilles> In the end, though, fewer connectivity methods makes it easier on consumers.
Nov 22 03:28:29 <l7> yeah, i hope USB3 doesn't suck
Nov 22 03:28:40 <GeneralAntilles> The ports look funny.
Nov 22 03:28:54 * zakkm thinks you guys should develop your own "usb's"
Nov 22 03:28:57 <l7> yeah, the split prong thing is weird
Nov 22 03:29:06 <zakkm> the l7 series Antilles :P
Nov 22 03:29:12 <GeneralAntilles> Don't have the money.
Nov 22 03:29:24 <zakkm> get sponsors ;p
Nov 22 03:29:29 <l7> yeah, it will be the only port option on my Orange computer
Nov 22 03:29:38 <l7> well that and firewire :)
Nov 22 03:29:44 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Nov 22 03:37:29 <zakkm> any of you use cbrpages?
Nov 22 03:37:48 <l7> what is that?
Nov 22 03:41:02 <towo> comic book reader thingie
Nov 22 03:41:15 <towo> it doesn't have dependencies for gzip et al, zakka, so you need to install those manually
Nov 22 03:41:18 <towo> jftr.
Nov 22 03:47:18 <l7> hrm, has anyone found a keystroke that can cut and paste inside osso_xterm?
Nov 22 03:47:48 <l7> ctrl-c prints a
Nov 22 03:48:03 <l7> inversely colored C
Nov 22 03:51:07 <towo> I'll be getting some shut-eye now. Laters.
Nov 22 03:53:02 <_786soul> Anyone here be able to help me in disabling the onboard wifi (Nokia n810) to use another that I'll connect through usb?
Nov 22 03:54:30 <l7> hmm, why do you want to do that?
Nov 22 03:55:42 <_786soul> Pentesting with my N810, wifi on it doesn't support packet injection
Nov 22 03:56:30 <_786soul> I just need to disable the onboard and enable the alfa I'll plug in, what command would I use? Already have root
Nov 22 03:57:46 <l7> hrm, can't say i really know
Nov 22 03:58:06 <l7> maybe GeneralAntilles or someone else does
Nov 22 03:58:45 <_786soul> I know on a slax based OS the command is to do with 'iwconfig <devicename> up/down' but I'm not sure about maemo based linux
Nov 22 03:59:05 <_786soul> I'll find some forums possibly or wait till he's on IRC to ask posibly
Nov 22 03:59:23 <ds3> `
Nov 22 04:03:00 <GeneralAntilles> _786soul, got experience with wifi driver development?
Nov 22 04:04:51 <_786soul> GeneralAntilles: Unfortunately not development. Only the basics although it is something I'd like to one day learn. Instead of relying completely on others :(
Nov 22 04:05:14 <derf> It's not hard. Just start reading the source.
Nov 22 04:05:25 <GeneralAntilles> _786soul, well, now would be a good time to learn. :)
Nov 22 04:06:02 <_786soul> LOL that's the process I'd like. Main idea I want is hopefully being writing my own code to fuel the devices I need running. What would you say is the best place to start?
Nov 22 04:06:17 <_786soul> begin*
Nov 22 04:06:19 <GeneralAntilles> http://stlc45xx.garage.maemo.org/
Nov 22 04:06:57 <GeneralAntilles> The wifi driver was just opened
Nov 22 04:07:05 <GeneralAntilles> So you can help implementing package injection. ;)
Nov 22 04:09:12 <_786soul> haha thanks! I'll read up on that. I know the wifi adapter I'm using (Alfa 500mW usb) works natively on BT3 for prime example :P but I would love it working with the N810. Will this driver let me do the disabling and enabling sort of thing then working in further drivers for the adapter itself?
Nov 22 04:10:38 <_786soul> Don't answer that. I have learned to read before asking!
Nov 22 04:32:26 <l7> hrm, i wonder what it would take to get ubuntu running on aaaaaa tablet
Nov 22 04:36:36 <GeneralAntilles> l7, see Mer
Nov 22 04:38:25 <l7> oh cool
Nov 22 04:40:03 <l7> oh cool
Nov 22 04:40:06 <l7> if you were going to get a few SD cards to play with other OSes, what size SD cards would you get?
Nov 22 04:40:42 <l7> i'm wondering if 2GB may be a bit tight
Nov 22 06:00:03 <l7> hmm, i wonder if the iphone or ipod touch support bluetooth keyboards yet
Nov 22 06:01:09 <l7> if not, i think you could probably use ssh and screen to make a maemo tablet a wireless bridge of sorts for terminal sessions
Nov 22 06:08:54 <GeneralAntilles> No
Nov 22 06:09:00 <GeneralAntilles> Practically no Bluetooth support
Nov 22 06:28:33 <l7> apple sure knows how to limit it's users
Nov 22 06:30:17 <GeneralAntilles> yup
Nov 22 06:32:42 <l7> hey personal menu is way better than personal launcher for most stuff
Nov 22 06:33:14 * qwerty12 uses both. Depends on if I'm on the desktop or in another program *shrug*
Nov 22 06:33:40 <l7> yeah, depends on how many apps you have i guess
Nov 22 06:34:22 <l7> being able to put the most used 12 apps at 64px is pretty nice
Nov 22 06:35:00 <l7> it took me a while to figure out how personal menu worked though
Nov 22 06:38:36 <qwerty12> Ooh, maemo-developers cat fight. The best.
Nov 22 06:43:41 <GeneralAntilles> -users, you mean?
Nov 22 06:43:53 <GeneralAntilles> I'm getting closer and closer to banning Mark from that list.
Nov 22 06:44:10 <GeneralAntilles> EVERY flame war on that list is either started because of his input or continued because of it.
Nov 22 06:44:14 <qwerty12> Ah, yes, you're right. /stupid me put the wrong gmail label >.<
Nov 22 06:44:21 <qwerty12> Yeah :/
Nov 22 06:45:25 <GeneralAntilles> I'd warn him myself, but I don't think I'm neutral enough.
Nov 22 06:45:46 <GeneralAntilles> A list of all his misbehavior need to be compiled, though.
Nov 22 06:48:38 <GeneralAntilles> I find it entirely bizarre when people claim false advertising.
Nov 22 06:50:32 <l7> is this the guy with the website featuring 30pt text?
Nov 22 06:50:46 <GeneralAntilles> The box says (paraphrasing): Easy WiFi/BT connectivity; Portable web with a high-resolution display; Internet calling camera, IM, email; high-quality stereo audio.
Nov 22 06:51:17 <GeneralAntilles> On the cover there are pictures of people playing audio, using it as a GPS, using it to browse the web, and using it for video chatting.
Nov 22 06:51:28 <GeneralAntilles> The video chatting picture is actually of an impossible N800.
Nov 22 06:51:34 <qwerty12> Do you keep your box near you too? :)
Nov 22 06:51:56 <GeneralAntilles> I've got a couple in the closet.
Nov 22 06:52:03 <GeneralAntilles> My apartment's just really small. :P
Nov 22 06:52:21 <qwerty12> Heh, I'm lazy, my box is in arm's reach from where I'm sitting now :P
Nov 22 06:52:37 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, do you happen to have a copy of kismet you could upload?
Nov 22 06:52:47 <GeneralAntilles> It wont be OS2006, but at least it's something to point to.
Nov 22 06:52:55 <GeneralAntilles> and we can all say how awesome qwerty12 is. ;)
Nov 22 06:53:45 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, tz1 is working on it. Because he made the conf file and some code that fixes the inability for kismet to work with nokia's gpsd, I find it only fair that he uploads it :)
Nov 22 06:53:58 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, OK.
Nov 22 06:54:54 <qwerty12> I'd upload aircrack-ng (which complements kismet nicely imho) but that requires some newer set of tools that aren't in scratchbox by default and I have no idea how I'd get a new toolchain on the autobuilder...
Nov 22 06:55:34 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Nov 22 06:55:38 <GeneralAntilles> Talk to X-Fade.
Nov 22 06:55:48 <GeneralAntilles> I hear X-Fade likes having problems set on his doorstep. :P
Nov 22 06:55:52 <GeneralAntilles> Too bad it's a Saturday.
Nov 22 06:55:59 <GeneralAntilles> Bastard's probably enjoying his weekend or something.
Nov 22 06:56:02 <qwerty12> Lol
Nov 22 06:56:35 <qwerty12> Because he's always here, I can't tell if it's his free time or if he is working :P
Nov 22 06:56:58 <GeneralAntilles> Well, if it's a weekday and daylight, he's guaranteed to be working. :P
Nov 22 06:57:12 <qwerty12> I'll remember that formula for future use :P
Nov 22 06:57:47 <GeneralAntilles> I think these days it's more "If he responds, he's working."
Nov 22 06:57:50 <GeneralAntilles> Hi, konttori_.
Nov 22 06:57:57 <konttori_> hi
Nov 22 06:59:42 <GeneralAntilles> konttori_, the new Theme Maker's scheduled for February, right?
Nov 22 06:59:57 <GeneralAntilles> Can I extrapolate certain things about the status of the Fremantle UI by that time then? :P
Nov 22 07:00:08 <konttori_> Well, I promised it for march, but it's not like I'll be doing lot's of work.
Nov 22 07:00:25 <konttori_> i can do it pretty quickly after the development theme is out
Nov 22 07:00:49 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, right.
Nov 22 07:00:53 * GeneralAntilles re-reads the wiki.
Nov 22 07:03:16 <konttori_> what wiki?
Nov 22 07:03:37 <GeneralAntilles> http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle
Nov 22 07:03:41 * konttori_ has been far too busy to know of any developments with the community
Nov 22 07:03:45 <konttori_> (a shame)
Nov 22 07:04:10 <konttori_> ah, yeah, theme maker by beta.
Nov 22 07:04:13 <GeneralAntilles> Well, this is designed to keep people abreast of some of the more important events: http://maemo.org/community/council
Nov 22 07:04:20 <GeneralAntilles> So might give that a read through. ;)
Nov 22 07:04:51 <konttori_> I've been thinking of adding two different templates. One easy and the other the official template (like it is currently)
Nov 22 07:05:20 <GeneralAntilles> How do you make the easy one easy?
Nov 22 07:05:45 <GeneralAntilles> (Which is a fantastic idea by the way. ;))
Nov 22 07:05:46 <konttori_> less items to theme and better (and more logical) layout than the official one
Nov 22 07:05:55 <GeneralAntilles> The barrier to entry for Maemo theme making is a bit high.
Nov 22 07:06:08 <GeneralAntilles> It's sort of an all-or-nothing deal.
Nov 22 07:06:32 <GeneralAntilles> Which is a big deterrent for the casual folks.
Nov 22 07:08:04 <konttori_> Yeah. I guess I could whip up the old template for the diablo use
Nov 22 07:08:50 <GeneralAntilles> It's really intimidating opening up that template.
Nov 22 07:09:06 <GeneralAntilles> Make one that looks more reasonable and I bet you double the number of themes very quickly.
Nov 22 07:13:26 <konttori_> yeah. I agree
Nov 22 07:14:17 <konttori_> Even just dropping the completely useless **ap from the template and the duplicates would make it far far easier to use
Nov 22 07:15:23 <qwerty12> The people who do make themes with your maker don't really use the template fully imo, I see a lot of the same desktop clock :)
Nov 22 07:16:35 <konttori_> yeah. It's a lot of work to convert all of the clock number pixmaps to what you want.
Nov 22 07:16:55 <konttori_> clock itself consists of ~ 25 pixmaps
Nov 22 07:17:27 <konttori_> and there really is no shortcut to it (except to convince nokia to use fonts there instead)
Nov 22 07:18:06 <konttori_> hey, when is fremantle alpha coming out
Nov 22 07:18:22 <GeneralAntilles> Should be next month.
Nov 22 07:18:30 <konttori_> ah. cool
Nov 22 07:18:35 <GeneralAntilles> Quim was hinting at there only being one or two blockers left.
Nov 22 07:20:23 <konttori_> ah. good. I don't know any blockers, but then again, I'm not involved in the sdk currently. all of them could be legal, marketing, or whatnot related.
Nov 22 07:20:46 <konttori_> or even technical. e.g. dev theme.
Nov 22 07:20:56 <GeneralAntilles> I'm excited to see h-a-m in there.
Nov 22 07:21:26 <GeneralAntilles> I'm hoping we can get started on some downloads.maemo.org integration and some new category views.
Nov 22 07:22:47 <konttori_> what kind of integration did you have in mind?
Nov 22 07:23:25 <GeneralAntilles> http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_the_Application_manager
Nov 22 07:23:30 <GeneralAntilles> Some of the ideas are outlined there
Nov 22 07:23:39 <GeneralAntilles> But, basically, I'd like to see AppStore-like functionality.
Nov 22 07:23:56 <GeneralAntilles> With comments and ratings visible right in the Application Manager
Nov 22 07:24:13 <GeneralAntilles> and adding a maemo.org account to h-a-m would let you rating and comment on applications.
Nov 22 07:24:22 <konttori_> isn't application managers search already able to look for 'web browser'?
Nov 22 07:24:38 <GeneralAntilles> It searches titles and descriptions
Nov 22 07:24:45 <GeneralAntilles> and the UI for the search is really lame.
Nov 22 07:25:02 <GeneralAntilles> debtags would give it much more useful metadata to parse.
Nov 22 07:25:12 <konttori_> so, then it would be able to locate the web browser use case that is given on the improvement page
Nov 22 07:26:38 <GeneralAntilles> Here's a really ugly example of the type of metadata you'd be able to search: http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/cloud/
Nov 22 07:27:03 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, Debian needs you!
Nov 22 07:27:12 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, for what? :P
Nov 22 07:27:22 <qwerty12> Your design skills :D
Nov 22 07:27:29 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Nov 22 07:27:34 <GeneralAntilles> I only work on things I actually use. :P
Nov 22 07:27:42 <qwerty12> hehe :D
Nov 22 07:34:06 <konttori_> Yeah, well .... let's see about the categorization. mvo has been working on improvements
Nov 22 07:35:43 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa and lardman are planning on hacking on it a bit.
Nov 22 07:36:01 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa already patched the existing category view for multiple columns.
Nov 22 07:36:15 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24582
Nov 22 07:36:15 <konttori_> All good ideas in the app man improvements
Nov 22 07:36:26 <konttori_> mvo has been taking note of those
Nov 22 07:36:42 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, we've had a few discussions on -developers
Nov 22 08:05:06 <t_s_o> ok, that was weird. i knew the battery probably was low after the night, but when i plugged in the charger without unlocking the screen first the device rebooted. but rather then just going to the full screen "charging" message, it fully rebooted...
Nov 22 08:05:20 <t_s_o> got to be some kind of interaction with pybattery...
Nov 22 08:06:50 <qwerty12> When restarted, it only goes to the full screen charging message if the tablet is booted up in runlevel 5. The way that is done is that initfs reads /proc/bootreason and a reboot with the charger in doesn't update /proc/bootreason so the tablet continues booting in runlevel 2
Nov 22 08:09:30 <t_s_o> heh, thanks, it was just a bit "unexpected", given the reaction i got from plugging in the charger
Nov 22 08:10:40 <t_s_o> i wonder how the battery need to drop before pybattery gives its first warning. the nokia applet seems to love giving early warnings, but pybattery seems to wait until "oh crap, its empty!"
Nov 22 08:11:24 <t_s_o> but then it could also be that pybattery sleeps fully while screen is off, as i have seen it alter the icon after i awaken the screen
Nov 22 08:12:51 <qwerty12> t_s_o, the warning is shown when battery is under 5 percent
Nov 22 08:13:39 <qwerty12> But it's python so it should only take a few seconds to change :P :)
Nov 22 08:13:48 <t_s_o> heh
Nov 22 08:15:31 <qwerty12> eurgh, cdbs makes me want to scream
Nov 22 08:26:14 <t_s_o> meh, i guess what really surprises me is that it seems the device can linger for longer with pybattery vs the nokia applet...
Nov 22 08:26:59 <konttori_> really? that's pretty cool
Nov 22 08:27:45 <RST38h> This will depend on how often it wakes up
Nov 22 08:27:58 <t_s_o> could just be a perception thing tho, but it seems that pybattery do not send out any kind of low battery warning while the device is idle and screen off...
Nov 22 08:28:31 <qwerty12> I *think* the python bindings suspend desktop applets to save power
Nov 22 08:29:07 <qwerty12> But suspending applets when display goes off is a feature so I'm not sure if in this case its the bindings or pybattery doing it
Nov 22 08:30:59 <t_s_o> well, i suspect that pybattery had some work done in that area, as a earlier version had the habit of hogging the cpu so that it stayed fully clocked
Nov 22 08:42:05 <RST38h> Python isn't a good language to use for system extensions anyway
Nov 22 08:43:43 <t_s_o> heh, maybe so
Nov 22 08:47:22 <GeneralAntilles> Then plan seems to be to move to C.
Nov 22 08:47:23 <konttori_> vala otoh.... ;)
Nov 22 08:47:33 <konttori_> move to vala (or genie)
Nov 22 08:48:23 <GeneralAntilles> konttori_, have you seen Tear?
Nov 22 08:48:30 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24293
Nov 22 08:48:32 <konttori_> didn't test it yet
Nov 22 08:48:36 <konttori_> is it any good?
Nov 22 08:48:48 <GeneralAntilles> Well, it's about as alpha as it can get. ;)
Nov 22 08:49:07 <konttori_> urgh. perhaps later then
Nov 22 08:49:17 <konttori_> I was so depressed with fennec
Nov 22 08:49:25 <konttori_> it's completely unusaböe
Nov 22 08:49:28 <GeneralAntilles> It'll be interesting to see where it goes in a few months.
Nov 22 08:49:34 <konttori_> people shouldn't publish underperforming stuff
Nov 22 08:49:34 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, that one's about as alpha as it gets, too.
Nov 22 08:49:42 <konttori_> even unstable is better than unusable
Nov 22 08:49:51 <GeneralAntilles> Well
Nov 22 08:49:56 <GeneralAntilles> Release early, release often.
Nov 22 08:50:03 <konttori_> well, have they?
Nov 22 08:50:09 <GeneralAntilles> Open source development takes place in the open.
Nov 22 08:50:15 <konttori_> they only released early on
Nov 22 08:50:33 <GeneralAntilles> There's been a new milestone every few weeks.
Nov 22 08:50:33 <konttori_> yeah, well, development is different from releasing
Nov 22 08:50:39 <konttori_> ?
Nov 22 08:50:44 <konttori_> any better now?
Nov 22 08:51:00 <GeneralAntilles> The alpha is a lot better than the last pre-alpha release.
Nov 22 08:51:35 <konttori_> you mean the one they released a month ago is better than the pre-alpha?
Nov 22 08:51:54 <GeneralAntilles> Milestone 9
Nov 22 08:52:00 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/fennec/1.0a1/releasenotes/
Nov 22 08:52:44 <konttori_> hmm... i'll check it out. thanks
Nov 22 08:52:52 <GeneralAntilles> I mean, it's still not great
Nov 22 08:52:56 <GeneralAntilles> but it's a lot better than it once.
Nov 22 08:53:11 <GeneralAntilles> s/once/was/
Nov 22 08:53:12 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: but it's a lot better than it was.
Nov 22 08:53:26 <GeneralAntilles> (my muscle memory keeps picking more and more bizarre typos. . . .)
Nov 22 08:54:31 <GeneralAntilles> I think the bigger issue than alpha releases are bloggers that love to over hype every single little thing that happens on the internet.
Nov 22 09:04:51 <konttori_> could be
Nov 22 09:15:47 <Jaffa> morning
Nov 22 09:35:46 <konttori_> morning Jaffa: thanks for the patch to application manager. mvo was very pleased about it.
Nov 22 09:43:40 <Jaffa> konttori_: having your wife & Jaffa Jr. go to the in-laws for a weekend means producitivity FTW ;-)
Nov 22 09:44:06 <konttori_> hehey! time to hack!
Nov 22 10:14:24 <RST38h> All right, gentlemen, Sldie Rule 1.0.1 now officially released. Get it from Extras (when it shows up there) or from http://fms.komkon.org/SlideRule/
Nov 22 10:14:46 <qwerty12> Cool, thanks
Nov 22 10:15:21 <RST38h> qwerty: I have not upped the version number so you may want to delete previously installed copy
Nov 22 10:15:30 <RST38h> or just install from file over it
Nov 22 10:15:52 <qwerty12> Yeah, I just use dpkg anyway
Nov 22 10:16:49 <RST38h> BTW, SB2 looks seriously broken now, after the latest update =(
Nov 22 10:17:16 <qwerty12> Sb1 still going strong in intrepid :)
Nov 22 10:17:25 <qwerty12> Though I'm using a kernel from hardy
Nov 22 10:19:27 * konttori_ just got the wii whiteboard working on his osx and calibrated to his monitor
Nov 22 10:19:30 <konttori_> pretty cool stuff.
Nov 22 10:20:09 <konttori_> I wonder if the cam on the n800 could be easilu turned into serving as source for the IR hit data to use any surface as painting surface
Nov 22 10:20:11 <GeneralAntilles> Wii Control disables virtual text input. :(
Nov 22 10:20:35 * Stskeeps awakens
Nov 22 10:21:59 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: what does the deblet-installer do with cx3110x-umac-module?
Nov 22 10:22:00 <konttori_> umm... oh, my wii control. really? I didn't know.
Nov 22 10:22:09 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah,
Nov 22 10:22:14 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: it builds it on tablet?
Nov 22 10:22:15 <GeneralAntilles> I guess it thinks it's a BT keyboard.
Nov 22 10:22:27 <konttori_> ah. probably then.
Nov 22 10:22:29 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: yeah, debian/rules binary-arch or something
Nov 22 10:22:34 <Stskeeps> look what the non-free script does
Nov 22 10:22:36 <GeneralAntilles> The whole Bluetooth keyboard setup is about as broken as it could get in Diablo. :\
Nov 22 10:22:57 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: .. i think, think we only dl the firmware
Nov 22 10:23:29 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: package tablet-wireless needs that
Nov 22 10:25:30 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: grab cx3110x.ko from deblet, umac.ko from firmware and copy in the firmware to where maemo has it as well
Nov 22 10:25:54 * qwerty12 thought umac.ko was in the initfs?
Nov 22 10:27:54 <Stskeeps> er, yeah, initfs
Nov 22 10:27:55 <X-Fade> Hmmm it makes me sad to see so much ignorance and conspiracy on -users :(
Nov 22 10:28:07 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: everybody loves a good conspiracy :P
Nov 22 10:28:31 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, I blame you.
Nov 22 10:28:39 <X-Fade> As if everybody is working on getting you the worst experience ;)
Nov 22 10:28:41 <GeneralAntilles> None of us can actually verify the content of those emails.
Nov 22 10:29:08 <GeneralAntilles> I'm pretty sure he threatened evil things if they didn't close their repos.
Nov 22 10:30:01 <qwerty12> Yer, X-Fade hired me to take them out. Since X-Fade didn't pay me, I didn't do it :(
Nov 22 10:30:35 <RST38h> As I always said, genocyde is the only solution
Nov 22 10:30:48 <RST38h> Users? No users! =)
Nov 22 10:31:15 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, I'm almost ready to start putting together a case to ban Mark. <_<
Nov 22 10:33:26 <X-Fade> Nah, you will always have people who just don't get the whole picture.
Nov 22 10:36:56 <hahlobit> has anyone reverse engineered this cx3110?
Nov 22 10:37:21 <GeneralAntilles> http://stlc45xx.garage.maemo.org/
Nov 22 10:37:45 <aquatix> morning all
Nov 22 10:38:01 <GeneralAntilles> Hi, aquatix.
Nov 22 10:38:06 <RST38h> moo, aquatix, zap
Nov 22 10:38:37 <RST38h> zap: New Slide Rule at http://fms.komkon.org/SlideRule (will be in Extras when X-Fade promotes it =))
Nov 22 10:38:49 <zap> hi! thanks :)
Nov 22 10:39:20 <zap> why X-Fade? don't you have access to extras?
Nov 22 10:39:23 <X-Fade> RST38h: You can promote it yourself.
Nov 22 10:43:45 <Stskeeps> "This, as it turns out was wrong, luckily. After a few hours with a
Nov 22 10:43:45 <Stskeeps> custom cx3110x module with some quite interesting new debug tracing,
Nov 22 10:43:45 <Stskeeps> the LMAC APIs for the N770's firmware appear to be identical.
Nov 22 10:43:46 <Stskeeps> "
Nov 22 10:43:48 <Stskeeps> oh that's neat
Nov 22 10:44:38 <Stskeeps> there might actually be OSS wifi for 770 too then
Nov 22 10:45:37 <anddam> hello
Nov 22 10:46:06 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i think stlc45xx may actually turn out to be a success story.. it's already getting active developers and patches, in larger % than traditional releases from nokia :P
Nov 22 10:46:57 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, I really hope so.
Nov 22 10:47:10 <GeneralAntilles> Every success story is more ammo to fire at Nokia.
Nov 22 10:49:00 <RST38h> X-Fade: how? =)
Nov 22 10:49:09 <anddam> I'd need an advice, I'd like to buy an internettablet for two tasks: PIM, ToDos and appointments, and as calculator, both numerical and symbolical
Nov 22 10:49:14 <anddam> is the n770 worth it?
Nov 22 10:49:28 <X-Fade> RST38h: https://garage.maemo.org/promoter/diablo or chinook
Nov 22 10:49:33 <RST38h> X-Fade: I kinda thought that non-free promotion was not automatic?
Nov 22 10:49:37 <anddam> or should I rather look at n800?
Nov 22 10:49:42 <X-Fade> RST38h: Ah, non-free ;)
Nov 22 10:50:03 <X-Fade> RST38h: Well, there you can just upload to extras non-free directly.
Nov 22 10:51:22 <RST38h> uploaded already, going to check the Packages index in a moment
Nov 22 10:51:39 <X-Fade> RST38h: Should update the index once per hour.
Nov 22 10:51:58 <qwerty12> ~gas cdbs for being a***-retentive about cflags
Nov 22 10:51:58 * infobot leads cdbs for being a***-retentive about cflags to the "showers"
Nov 22 10:52:24 <RST38h> Yea, it is there already! Gonna update the download page and post news
Nov 22 10:52:47 <X-Fade> lol, should first, check later? :D
Nov 22 10:52:57 <X-Fade> *shout
Nov 22 10:53:35 <RST38h> X-Fade: I was operating under previous assumptions that it was manual =)
Nov 22 10:54:11 <mikkov_> there should be some pressure to get all those lib* packages moved out from user/ category
Nov 22 10:54:13 <RST38h> Kinda expected to wait until Monday too :)
Nov 22 10:54:34 <GeneralAntilles> mikkov_, yeah, I emailed one or two of those and haven't gotten a response
Nov 22 10:54:45 <GeneralAntilles> I'm going to step up the categories thing after the new h-a-m is shipped.
Nov 22 10:54:58 <anddam> anyone about buing advice?
Nov 22 10:55:05 <mikkov_> libuiw is even maintained by  nokia.com address
Nov 22 10:55:10 <X-Fade> We will start to show warnings in the autobuilder for wrong categories after this weekend.
Nov 22 10:55:37 <GeneralAntilles> Still need to wrap up those translations. :\
Nov 22 10:56:28 <RST38h> What would be the official advice on the new h-a-m?
Nov 22 10:56:56 <RST38h> Is everybody encouraged to use it instead of the official one or is it experimental hackers-only stuff?
Nov 22 10:57:06 <GeneralAntilles> sv_SE and fi_FI are IPs-only
Nov 22 10:57:13 <GeneralAntilles> GNUton supposedly talked to Kate
Nov 22 10:57:21 <GeneralAntilles> but the IP was a Beijing address, so I'm not sure.
Nov 22 10:57:30 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, which new h-a-m?
Nov 22 10:57:40 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Kate was in Asia?
Nov 22 10:57:41 <RST38h> General: The one Jaffa has been working on
Nov 22 10:57:43 <GeneralAntilles> The new h-a-m _I'm_ talking about will hopefully ship with the next SSU.
Nov 22 10:57:51 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, that's what I need to know. ;)
Nov 22 10:57:55 <RST38h> Ah! Perrrrfect
Nov 22 10:58:08 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, qwerty12 compiled a bunch of patches and built a .deb
Nov 22 10:58:23 <GeneralAntilles> I'd recommend it for the time being because it's a lot nicer than Nokia's current version
Nov 22 10:58:31 <GeneralAntilles> But it's certainly not an upgrade path or anything.
Nov 22 10:58:36 <RST38h> ok
Nov 22 10:58:46 <qwerty12> Some of those patches are by me :P
Nov 22 10:58:49 <RST38h> And the one in the next SSU - is it qwerty's or something else?
Nov 22 10:58:53 <qwerty12> No no
Nov 22 10:59:19 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, it's likely got mvo's cleanup of Jaffa's patch.
Nov 22 10:59:31 <GeneralAntilles> But most of the patches qwerty12 gathered up wont make it into Nokia's version anytime soon
Nov 22 10:59:39 <GeneralAntilles> Legal warning disablement and whatnot. ;)
Nov 22 10:59:54 <RST38h> Ah yes
Nov 22 11:00:06 * RST38h has no problem with the legal boilerplate thingie
Nov 22 11:00:08 <GeneralAntilles> Can somebody else PM allnameswereout and ask him whether GPLv2 is acceptable for his nl_NL translation?
Nov 22 11:00:18 <RST38h> Some other patches looked niced jusdging from the screenshot though
Nov 22 11:00:35 <qwerty12> But when the SSU one is released, you can bet your ass that I'll be readding the remove legal warning patch again
Nov 22 11:00:42 <qwerty12> re-adding even
Nov 22 11:00:48 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Does copyright even apply on single word translations?
Nov 22 11:01:02 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, dunno, but some of them are multi-word. :P
Nov 22 11:01:05 <GeneralAntilles> Either way. . . .
Nov 22 11:01:10 <GeneralAntilles> mvo asked so
Nov 22 11:01:42 <X-Fade> hmm no_NO is missing the user/navigation description.
Nov 22 11:01:57 * GeneralAntilles prods Stskeeps.
Nov 22 11:02:52 <Stskeeps> mm?
Nov 22 11:03:15 <Stskeeps> what was it in danish again? :P
Nov 22 11:03:21 <Stskeeps> and it's only missing cos GA was picky :P
Nov 22 11:03:22 <RST38h> General: navigasjon
Nov 22 11:03:30 <RST38h> General: this is what Google says
Nov 22 11:03:34 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, you missed a word in your translation. :P
Nov 22 11:03:49 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Next time we do a translation we should put a GPL disclaimer above it..
Nov 22 11:03:51 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: well.. we don't have a good way of saying Location
Nov 22 11:04:03 <Stskeeps> it's more like Position
Nov 22 11:04:04 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, yeah, it's gonna be done right for the next one.
Nov 22 11:04:12 <GeneralAntilles> I wasn't thinking particularly clearly for this one. ;)
Nov 22 11:04:21 <RST38h> Sskeeps: Same in Russian, I just used Positioning
Nov 22 11:05:15 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, I'll probably protect the wiki page to registered users, too.
Nov 22 11:05:51 <X-Fade> yeah.
Nov 22 11:06:10 <Stskeeps> wtf beagleboard... it seems to insist on destroying my MMCs
Nov 22 11:08:15 <GeneralAntilles> I PMed fredoll, so waiting on that.
Nov 22 11:08:23 <GeneralAntilles> I think I know who did es_MX
Nov 22 11:08:34 <GeneralAntilles> Need to talk to GNUton and crashanddie
Nov 22 11:14:34 * GeneralAntilles hands Stskeeps the blocker stick for finishing up the translations. :P
Nov 22 11:14:50 <Stskeeps> oi, im busy compiling like mad :P
Nov 22 11:15:30 * GeneralAntilles whittles more blocker sticks to hand to people.
Nov 22 11:15:50 <zetheroo> I have been trying to install the latest Maemo Mapper downloaded from Garage .... but it says that there are a bunch of packages missing ... so it cannot continue ..
Nov 22 11:15:53 <qwerty12> ooh, can I have one, pleaseeeeeee
Nov 22 11:16:08 <X-Fade> zetheroo: Install from Extras.
Nov 22 11:16:09 <GeneralAntilles> zetheroo, I'm pretty sure it's in the repository.
Nov 22 11:16:19 * GeneralAntilles carves osv-c into the one for qwerty12.
Nov 22 11:16:35 <X-Fade> zetheroo: Don't use single file downloads if it is also available in the repository :)
Nov 22 11:16:42 <qwerty12> Bleh, I changed my mind, you can have it back :P
Nov 22 11:17:09 * qwerty12 can't face the thought of compiling qemu :/
Nov 22 11:17:10 * GeneralAntilles casts a binding spell on qwerty12's stick before launching it out of a cannon at his back.
Nov 22 11:17:11 <zetheroo> umm ... the latest is 2.5.2 I think ... is that in the repos yet?
Nov 22 11:17:23 <GeneralAntilles> zetheroo, I just updated it a little while ago.
Nov 22 11:17:23 <zetheroo> I got the heads up from John Costigan on this
Nov 22 11:17:27 <zetheroo> ok cool
Nov 22 11:17:29 * X-Fade sees snow falling for a few hours now.
Nov 22 11:17:36 <qwerty12> OW
Nov 22 11:17:38 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: it takes like 5 minutes
Nov 22 11:17:45 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, not here :/
Nov 22 11:17:50 <Stskeeps> where are you, a 486? :P
Nov 22 11:18:04 <RST38h> General: Don't you think something has to be done about Extras-devel?
Nov 22 11:18:12 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, Nope, 2.8GHz dual core & 2gb ram but still takes long :P
Nov 22 11:18:30 <RST38h> General: Maybe split it into Extras-beta, Extras-alpha, and Extras-avoid-like-plague?
Nov 22 11:18:34 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, absolutely, and I'm nominating X-Fade to do all the work! :P
Nov 22 11:18:50 <X-Fade> Sure, I will do that. Why not.
Nov 22 11:19:07 <RST38h> Right now, enabling Extras-devel looks like the biggest problem for the "normal users"
Nov 22 11:19:08 <GeneralAntilles> Actually, that's a good question
Nov 22 11:19:15 <GeneralAntilles> I don't have the history behind the current situation
Nov 22 11:19:28 <RST38h> It is rather simple:
Nov 22 11:19:30 <GeneralAntilles> Why do we have a two-tier system instead of a 3-tier system like Debian?
Nov 22 11:19:37 <GeneralAntilles> s/3/three/
Nov 22 11:19:38 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Why do we have a two-tier system instead of a three-tier system like Debian?
Nov 22 11:19:55 <RST38h> You have got 1. Group of developers that keep their apps in Extras-devel forever and openly tell users to enable it to "install the latest version"
Nov 22 11:20:01 <zetheroo> is there a way in mapper to get the quickest route and not the closest one?
Nov 22 11:20:22 <RST38h> And then 2. Other developers that place completley unworkable stuff into Extras-devel
Nov 22 11:20:25 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: just ask it to only build the ARM part
Nov 22 11:20:37 <qwerty12> k
Nov 22 11:21:08 <qwerty12> Maybe after I finish building mpd
Nov 22 11:21:23 <RST38h> Finally 3. You have got conflicts between libraries taken from Extras and Exras-devel
Nov 22 11:21:37 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, I think I would prefer finer granularity here
Nov 22 11:21:48 <GeneralAntilles> but I don't love the difficulties that setup introduces.
Nov 22 11:22:55 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, take it to -developers I guess.
Nov 22 11:23:33 <X-Fade> I think there should be more people working on the management scripts and a team of community members to manage the repos ;)
Nov 22 11:24:34 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, I vote we start impressment.
Nov 22 11:25:20 <RST38h> General: Actually, I have no idea how to resolve this
Nov 22 11:25:44 <RST38h> i.e. the problem is clear but resolution is nowhere in sight
Nov 22 11:26:09 <lcuk> X-Fade, it will resolve itself with time.  in the past setting up your own repo was easier, now its more logical to use extras
Nov 22 11:27:04 * lcuk misread - RST38h that was a reply to yours, i thought x had wrote it
Nov 22 11:27:08 <X-Fade> Yes, but for a repository to work it needs active maintenance and more people watching it ;)
Nov 22 11:27:21 <lcuk> yes, extras has lots of eyes
Nov 22 11:27:29 <RST38h> lcuk: Oh, it is not a problem with 3rd party repos. It is a problem with conflicts between Extras and Extras-devel
Nov 22 11:27:33 <GeneralAntilles> But needs an active QA team.
Nov 22 11:27:34 <mikkov_> maemo.org/downloads just broke down..
Nov 22 11:28:07 <RST38h> X-Fade: btw, similarly to Extras having free and non-free, can we have Extras-devel with alpha, beta, etc?
Nov 22 11:28:16 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Huh?
Nov 22 11:28:24 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Works for me?
Nov 22 11:28:43 <RST38h> And a strict warning to developers to only place alpha-quality stuff into alpha?
Nov 22 11:28:47 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, that's not really very different. . . .
Nov 22 11:28:51 <mikkov_> hmm, works for me again
Nov 22 11:28:58 <RST38h> General: It is not, true
Nov 22 11:29:27 <RST38h> but at least it will weed out cases where users suddenly get updated with an early alpha version
Nov 22 11:30:10 <mikkov_> X-Fade: for couple of minutes Categories links were corrupted. I tried it with pc and n800 so I wasn't dreaming ;)
Nov 22 11:30:32 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Corrupted how? What did you see?
Nov 22 11:31:42 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Nov 22 11:31:44 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=243840#post243840
Nov 22 11:32:37 <mikkov_> X-Fade: link was replaced by some error message
Nov 22 11:33:07 <mikkov_> X-Fade: but of cource I didn't save it ;)
Nov 22 11:33:23 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Hmm i see it here too.
Nov 22 11:33:57 <mikkov_> X-Fade: it's working for me atm ;)
Nov 22 11:34:33 <mikkov_> X-Fade: could you pastebin the message so I could seee if it is the same that I saw
Nov 22 11:34:58 <X-Fade> mikkov_: In the category block on the right?
Nov 22 11:35:25 <mikkov_> X-Fade: yes
Nov 22 11:37:40 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Should not happen anymore from now on.
Nov 22 11:38:56 <mikkov_> X-Fade: ok ;)
Nov 22 11:39:46 <RST38h> BTW, is this right that in Ubuntu, clicking on a URL in the terminal does not bring it up in FireFox?
Nov 22 11:40:18 <lcuk> RST38h, sliderule, you have made numbers the default, but what happens when i want to do sin(x) type things?
Nov 22 11:40:31 <qwerty12> RST38h, If I right click and choose open link then it opens in firefox for me
Nov 22 11:40:33 <lcuk> will the i come out as a 9?
Nov 22 11:40:46 <RST38h> checking...
Nov 22 11:40:57 <RST38h> Yea! It works!
Nov 22 11:41:08 <RST38h> qwerty: You have opened my eyes! thanks.
Nov 22 11:41:17 <qwerty12> hehe :)
Nov 22 11:41:22 <RST38h> lcuk: x is in the bottom kbd row :)
Nov 22 11:41:40 <lcuk> but the "i" in sin isnt (its 8 sorry, not 9)
Nov 22 11:42:05 <RST38h> lcuk: In fact, you CAN use q,w,e,r,t,y,u,i,o,p for variables in sliderule but the plotter will use x
Nov 22 11:42:30 <RST38h> lcuk: oh, the function names... :(
Nov 22 11:42:48 <lcuk> yeah, what happens if i type s8n(x)
Nov 22 11:42:56 <RST38h> Guess I will have to fix that =(
Nov 22 11:43:12 <lcuk> heh, just have numerics come up if its in a nona alpha block
Nov 22 11:43:44 <RST38h> I process keypress/keyrelease events, so this has to be done by hand
Nov 22 11:43:53 <lcuk> though i do like numerics in numerically expected places
Nov 22 11:44:05 <lcuk> thats a big +1 on usablity
Nov 22 11:44:12 <lcuk> dont worry about the sin one for now
Nov 22 11:44:33 <RST38h> Do you prefer F-key as a switch between digits and letters or as a button that makes digits letters when pressed?
Nov 22 11:45:00 <lcuk> im used to pressing the fn key randomly to flip numbers and letters anyway, so just make it flip ;)
Nov 22 11:45:13 <RST38h> ok
Nov 22 11:45:38 <lcuk> entering passwords is great, if anyone is over my shoulder they think theres lots of x's and z's
Nov 22 11:46:32 * RST38h wonders what happens when the next tablet finally gets a SIm card
Nov 22 11:46:49 * RST38h further wonders what will happen if it supports BOTH 3G and GSM
Nov 22 11:46:56 <zetheroo> I am delighted to say that flite is now working in Maemo Mapper
Nov 22 11:46:58 <zetheroo> YAY
Nov 22 11:47:07 <X-Fade> RST38h: It will only support data.
Nov 22 11:47:15 <RST38h> What would the next "I would buy it if it only had..." excuse be?
Nov 22 11:47:30 <lcuk> "... a kitchen sink"
Nov 22 11:47:30 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, a teleporter.
Nov 22 11:47:35 <lcuk> oooooooh shiny!
Nov 22 11:47:37 <GeneralAntilles> Or an iPod Touch.
Nov 22 11:47:49 <RST38h> General: iTunes support!
Nov 22 11:48:12 <fiferboy_n810> X-Fade: I fixed eero's memory leak yesterday.  Could you have him test it?
Nov 22 11:48:13 <GeneralAntilles> The problem with the "I would buy if" folks is that they never actually buy.
Nov 22 11:48:14 <RST38h> X-Fade: if it only supports 3G data, that would be stupid
Nov 22 11:48:18 <GeneralAntilles> Pursing that market is stupid.
Nov 22 11:48:24 <RST38h> General: Exactly. Noticed that long time ago
Nov 22 11:48:33 <X-Fade> fiferboy_n810: Sure, I will post it to the list.
Nov 22 11:48:46 <fiferboy_n810> Thanks.  It's in extras now
Nov 22 11:48:59 <lcuk> why do we need itunes support, someone needs to make a piratebay-store and piratebay-player ;)
Nov 22 11:49:03 <fiferboy_n810> I was able to reproduce the problem, and the fix worked for me
Nov 22 11:49:07 <RST38h> X-Fade: hardware-wise, making it support voice probably does not cost a thing. Same goes for GSM/GPRS support because the chipsets are now integrated
Nov 22 11:49:13 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, can "3G" ever not mean "3G + EDGE"?
Nov 22 11:49:21 <RST38h> General: Of course
Nov 22 11:49:29 <RST38h> General: EDGE has nothig to do with 3G
Nov 22 11:49:33 <X-Fade> RST38h: No, but it will complicate things a lot legally. And then you need provider approval etc.
Nov 22 11:49:44 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, OK, better question, _does_ it ever not mean . . . ? ;)
Nov 22 11:49:44 * qwerty12 current phone has EDGE, no 3G
Nov 22 11:49:52 <RST38h> General: EDGE is just an ability to use a double GPRS allocation, I think
Nov 22 11:49:58 <RST38h> General: Yes.
Nov 22 11:50:09 <X-Fade> RST38h: Like they locked down the G1. You wouldn't be very happy if that happened.
Nov 22 11:50:10 <RST38h> General: My Nokia E70 (european) supports 3G but does not support EDGE
Nov 22 11:50:25 <GeneralAntilles> I can't imagine Nokia shipping a device that would work in so few places.
Nov 22 11:50:28 <RST38h> General: Very inconvinient, given that MTS still does not support 3G in Moscow
Nov 22 11:50:35 <lcuk> X-Fade, so we expect the same kind of thing as the USB cell-phone broadband dongles
Nov 22 11:50:39 <GeneralAntilles> Especially as 2G support has got to be practically free.
Nov 22 11:50:54 <X-Fade> The HSDPA modem also has support for 'legacy' bands.
Nov 22 11:51:02 <lcuk> morse code?
Nov 22 11:51:19 <mikkov_> EDGE is about using more efficient modulation
Nov 22 11:51:27 <lcuk> the turn by turn directions by the old fashioned bbc voice?
Nov 22 11:52:04 <guysoft42>  hey, where can i get the libhildon1-dev package in debian?
Nov 22 11:53:08 <Stskeeps> it's in debian, afaik :P
Nov 22 11:54:00 <Stskeeps> heh, another "I'm bitter" thread
Nov 22 11:54:14 <qwerty12> ~lart shitty cs2005 toolchain shipped with scratchbox by default
Nov 22 11:54:15 * infobot slaps shitty cs2005 toolchain shipped with scratchbox by default upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh
Nov 22 11:54:16 <lcuk> its a worldwide theme
Nov 22 11:54:58 <X-Fade> fiferboy_n810: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-November/035666.html
Nov 22 11:55:08 <ShadowJK_> RST38h, my european E70 supports both EDGE and 3G (up to 384kbit/s)
Nov 22 11:55:13 * Stskeeps wonders if qemu emulates the watchdog too
Nov 22 11:55:16 <ShadowJK_> Supports GPRS too
Nov 22 11:55:52 <Stskeeps> ~seen johnx
Nov 22 11:55:54 <infobot> johnx <n=john@p2172-ipbf2302hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 12h 48m 45s ago, saying: 'heh...easy enough to go off grid. I just climb a 1200 and bam, no geolocation :)'.
Nov 22 11:55:55 <ShadowJK_> EDGE isn't "double gprs allocation" per se, edge brings a number of new modulations and a different error recovery method
Nov 22 11:56:16 * Stskeeps wonders if he got dragged off to a mental institution
Nov 22 11:56:40 <lcuk> no, but can you hear the ambulances, they are coming to take you away ah hah
Nov 22 11:57:36 <fiferboy_n810> X-Fade: Thanks!  I'm pretty sure this solves his problem
Nov 22 11:58:19 <RST38h> Shadow: Nope (on E70)
Nov 22 11:58:33 <X-Fade> fiferboy_n810: Thanks for being responsive and will to test/fix the report..
Nov 22 11:58:47 <fiferboy_n810> Hey, no problem.
Nov 22 11:58:50 <ShadowJK_> I'm downloading at 24kbyte/s right now, without 3G :-)
Nov 22 11:59:03 <RST38h> Shadow: I also wondered about it and finally found that it only supports GPRS and 3G. US version supports GPRS and EDGE but no 3G
Nov 22 11:59:11 <RST38h> Shadow: Lemme check the specs again
Nov 22 11:59:18 <fiferboy_n810> I have always tried to fix problems or add feature requests quickly
Nov 22 11:59:20 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: yesterday you asked about what is better in jaunty, i have found one thing, i have now installed jaunty 4 times and it have never give me Segmentation Faults, both hasty armv5 and v6 have give me segfaults many times
Nov 22 12:00:10 <ShadowJK_> http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/E70 "Europe, Asia, Africa", and then scroll down to Network Data Support where it says EGPRS
Nov 22 12:00:30 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: mm, i'm starting to wonder if we should back jaunty instead of mojo honestly
Nov 22 12:00:49 <GeneralAntilles> yerga, Ehehehe.
Nov 22 12:00:58 <yerga> GeneralAntilles, xD
Nov 22 12:01:13 <GeneralAntilles> Reggie's just got a cronjob running. . . .
Nov 22 12:01:32 <yerga> I was going to do a better reply, but I thought it two times
Nov 22 12:01:41 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: well, i prefer jaunty, even with the fact that it is kinda "beta", i mean it will be refeased after 5 months
Nov 22 12:01:45 <RST38h> Shadow: Weird. How come I never see it use EDGE then?
Nov 22 12:01:53 <yerga> funny too the thread in maemo-users
Nov 22 12:02:04 <ShadowJK_> RST38h, maybe there's no edge coverage where you live?
Nov 22 12:02:20 <RST38h> Shadow: There is
Nov 22 12:02:21 <X-Fade> yerga: I have sent only one reply and that really should be enough ;)
Nov 22 12:02:43 <ShadowJK_> Note that the phone doesn't actually tell you whether it's using GPRS or EDGE modulation, looks the same
Nov 22 12:02:59 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: think i'll ponder with johnx if ubuntu's direction is better
Nov 22 12:03:00 <RST38h> Maybe that is why
Nov 22 12:03:08 <hahlobit> Stskeeps i got this bait bootmenu, seems that deblet bootmenu doesn't install over it?
Nov 22 12:03:16 <ShadowJK_> Only way to tell is to download something huge, probably several transfers at once, and if speed goes above 5kbyte/s, then it's using edge
Nov 22 12:03:17 <RST38h> Still strange though
Nov 22 12:03:21 <yerga> X-Fade, but when you are speaking to this kind of people, there is nothing to do ;)
Nov 22 12:03:39 <RST38h> It often goes over 5kB/s
Nov 22 12:03:54 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: they seem to be pretty fast with the compiling, ubuntu-desktop have been installable almost 2 days and they are not far away from kde 4
Nov 22 12:03:55 <X-Fade> yerga: Yes, but at least it explains things to other people reading it.
Nov 22 12:03:58 <ShadowJK_> regular GPRS only goes to 5 or so
Nov 22 12:04:01 <RST38h> but not by much :)
Nov 22 12:04:10 <Stskeeps> hahlobit: there's a big warning somewhere on my pages that you should start from a fanoush bootmenu, from fresh initfs, .. but not penguinbait :P
Nov 22 12:04:28 <X-Fade> yerga: I have no doubt in my mind that it will ever help for the original poster ;)
Nov 22 12:05:03 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, yerga, X-Fade's right. The idiots will be idiots, it's the effect they have on everybody else that's a problem. . . . :\
Nov 22 12:05:06 <yerga> X-Fade, sure
Nov 22 12:05:26 <hahlobit> Stskeeps: ok, should i now first flash stock diablo and start over?
Nov 22 12:05:42 <X-Fade> yerga: The problem is that it really changes the mood of people who are working on this in their spare time.
Nov 22 12:05:48 <X-Fade> It does a lot of harm there.
Nov 22 12:05:53 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: i have always installed your bootmenu over PB:s, and i have never had problems
Nov 22 12:06:11 <Stskeeps> hahlobit: yeah, just the initfs i guess
Nov 22 12:06:20 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: yeah, it only seems to happen to some
Nov 22 12:06:23 <ShadowJK_> I have two phones with edge support, and with the one operator I have a parallell sim card. It's amusing how when I use gprs on just one phone, I get 24kbyte/s, if I use on both with same operator, I get something like 15kbyte/s each. Embarassingly shows that most of the time I'm the only data user in my area :)
Nov 22 12:06:25 <hahlobit> ok
Nov 22 12:06:28 <RST38h> X-Fade: need to implement ignore feature on itt and use email kill lists
Nov 22 12:06:56 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: maybe it is about n800/n810, hahlobit has n800 and i have n810...
Nov 22 12:06:59 <RST38h> Shadow: I am getting 15kB/s at most
Nov 22 12:07:08 <RST38h> Shadow: This place is crawling with GPRS users.
Nov 22 12:07:13 <ShadowJK_> right :)
Nov 22 12:07:46 <ShadowJK_> approx 15kB/s was the maximum for my old phone, a Nokia 6820. It had weaker edge support than E70
Nov 22 12:09:58 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: hm, i guess one reason nokia has initfs is to keep kernel size down
Nov 22 12:10:05 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: compiling in fs drivers could be a mess else
Nov 22 12:10:31 <ShadowJK_> I wish Nokia would update the E70... upgrade the CPU and add more RAM, and the latest S60...
Nov 22 12:10:36 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, Makes sense, nokia supply quite a few modules
Nov 22 12:11:36 <Stskeeps> yerga: <3 your post
Nov 22 12:12:05 <RST38h> Shadow: Same here - still waiting for a replacement :(
Nov 22 12:12:18 <ShadowJK_> :(
Nov 22 12:12:25 <yerga> Stskeeps, thanks. I am inspired this morning. It was a good night ;)
Nov 22 12:12:27 <RST38h> Shadow: The closest it is probably gonna get is E72 (?) but it will look more like N810
Nov 22 12:12:42 <ShadowJK_> I haven't heard about E72
Nov 22 12:12:46 <RST38h> Sliding keyboard, inaccessible top row of keys, same damn 320x240
Nov 22 12:13:06 <RST38h> Shadow: http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/19/nokias-e72-slider-and-e75-candybar-with-qwerty-keyboards-leaked/
Nov 22 12:13:17 <ShadowJK_> Oh yeah, all those other phones (except E90) have tinier screen res than E70...
Nov 22 12:13:37 <ShadowJK_> I can't go to smaller screen res now, I'll loose too many chars in putty :(
Nov 22 12:13:52 <RST38h> Shadow: E50 and N80 have the same resolution. It was actually a hack (they doubled 208x176 to avoid redesigning the UI)
Nov 22 12:14:15 <RST38h> Shadow: Well, 5800 is 800x360 and it will have a passable virtual keyboard...
Nov 22 12:14:50 <ShadowJK_> I think N810 fills that role
Nov 22 12:15:42 <qwerty12> RST38h, Will "standard" 9.x apps (ie programs designed for phones with a keyboard) run on the 5800?
Nov 22 12:16:40 * Stskeeps glances at initramfs
Nov 22 12:16:51 <hahlobit> wohder why phones have 8-16gb disk and tablet got only tiny...
Nov 22 12:16:53 <ShadowJK_> E70 is great because the screen doesn't seem to die even when I keep it in pocket at work and bump into things, I can just take it out and type notes quickly without needing to have clean hands first, dump it into pocket again, etc
Nov 22 12:17:58 <ShadowJK_> I wouldn't trust the N810 to survive that even if I resisted touching the screen :P
Nov 22 12:19:22 <RST38h> qwerty: I think so
Nov 22 12:19:32 <RST38h> qwerty: As long as you use keyclick events of course
Nov 22 12:19:55 <qwerty12> RST38h, Ok, thanks. S60's range of apps is a winner for me so I'd hate to lose that :(
Nov 22 12:20:08 <RST38h> Shadow: I would say, they need to use a newer CPU, finally fix the firmware, add more memory, and maybe make screen a bit bigger physically
Nov 22 12:20:23 <RST38h> Shadow: But for god's sake, KEEP THE FORM FACTOR AND DO NOT CHANGE THE KEYBOARD
Nov 22 12:20:28 <ShadowJK_> yes
Nov 22 12:20:38 <ShadowJK_> The keyboard is better than N810's keyboard
Nov 22 12:20:49 <RST38h> qwerty: I would wait and see on 5800. It is definitely not going to be the last Nokia's touch phone
Nov 22 12:20:57 <RST38h> Shadow: it is better than E90 in fact
Nov 22 12:21:13 <ShadowJK_> I haven't used E90, but it looked completely flat
Nov 22 12:21:21 <RST38h> Shadow: can be used with both hands, comfortably, without capral tunnel and/or dropping the device
Nov 22 12:22:07 <ShadowJK_> does your joystick still work, mine's acting up a bit...
Nov 22 12:22:30 <RST38h> Mine is acting up a bit, but it can be fixed at the service center
Nov 22 12:22:40 <univac> whats here wrong with stock: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/1471580f4fa316770d2c2427c8bce07e.png
Nov 22 12:22:42 <RST38h> *or* at the electronics market
Nov 22 12:22:45 <univac> ?
Nov 22 12:23:05 <qwerty12> univac, use the give applet?
Nov 22 12:23:20 <ShadowJK_> RST38h, I wonder how much that costs :)
Nov 22 12:23:25 <univac> qwerty12: yes
Nov 22 12:23:34 <RST38h> Shadow: My guess is - ~$20-$40 to fix
Nov 22 12:23:34 <univac> qwerty12: buggie?
Nov 22 12:23:45 <qwerty12> univac, Use the version I recompiled here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=233128&postcount=6 . I fixed that problem.
Nov 22 12:24:15 <guysoft42> anyone want to add a comment?: http://getsatisfaction.com/foxmarks/topics/foxmarks_on_maemo_microb_browser
Nov 22 12:24:23 <univac> thanks
Nov 22 12:32:39 <guysoft42> hey, how come it says here : http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/usbcontrol/ that all i need is a female-female connector?
Nov 22 12:32:53 <lcuk> mmmmmmmm female-female
Nov 22 12:33:00 <Stskeeps> lesbies
Nov 22 12:33:27 <lcuk> guysoft42, cos if you have female-female thing goin on anything is possible
Nov 22 12:33:44 <lcuk> (or rather you dont care if its not possible, you are kinda distracted)
Nov 22 12:33:46 <ShadowJK_> Oh, I had been wondering if you could use a female-female adapter with the included usb cable..
Nov 22 12:33:54 <lcuk> yes
Nov 22 12:33:57 <lcuk> i did with mine
Nov 22 12:35:11 <guysoft42> lcuk, because the other day someone told me i need some spacial adapter..
Nov 22 12:35:22 <GAN800> guysoft42, because you don't need any software if you use
Nov 22 12:35:32 <GAN800> a real hardware solution. . . .
Nov 22 12:36:08 <GAN800> http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode has the information you're after. . . .
Nov 22 12:36:40 <lcuk> guysoft42, the default nokia supplied cable does not close off the automatic host mode sensing pin, if you use the default nokia adapter and a f-f link you still need to set host mode as a flag within maemo.  you can buy cables which have the hostmode link embedded and so plugging in is automatic
Nov 22 12:36:57 <lcuk> if that makes sense, but its always better to have female-female action going on around the house
Nov 22 12:38:32 <lcuk> the f-f adapter will give you proof of concept, if you like how it works buy a proper cable for simplicity.  i went the other way and bought a bt keyboard, too many wires otherwise
Nov 22 12:43:19 <RST38h> GAN: How do I make a list in Wiki?
Nov 22 12:43:32 <RST38h> Preferably something that looks like DT/DD
Nov 22 12:43:41 <GAN800> # list item for numbered
Nov 22 12:43:46 <RST38h> ok
Nov 22 12:43:47 <GAN800> * for not
Nov 22 12:44:09 <GAN800> Google for wikipedia cheat sheet
Nov 22 12:45:54 <ShadowJK_> lcuk, what keyboard did you get?
Nov 22 12:46:07 <lcuk> apple tiny bt :)
Nov 22 12:48:13 <lcuk> http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=810cratelaptopmodetc6.jpg
Nov 22 12:49:39 <aquatix> heh
Nov 22 12:49:53 <aquatix> exactly as large as your wooden hold
Nov 22 12:50:54 <RST38h> GAN: How do I open a list? [?
Nov 22 12:51:04 <GAN800> You don't
Nov 22 12:51:12 <GAN800> Just prefix the lines
Nov 22 12:51:16 <RST38h> It umbers all my # items with 1.
Nov 22 12:51:33 <GAN800> Don't add newlines in between
Nov 22 12:51:44 <lcuk> ..blank lines..
Nov 22 12:51:50 <GAN800> or are you putting code examples in the middle or something?
Nov 22 12:53:26 <RST38h> No, no
Nov 22 12:53:32 <RST38h> Just helping you out
Nov 22 12:53:34 <RST38h> GEN: http://wiki.maemo.org/TabletDeath#Reasons_Why_Internet_Tablets_Will_Die
Nov 22 12:54:01 <RST38h> GAN: Next time somebody pops up in a forum with yet another thread, do not argue. Direct him there instead.
Nov 22 12:54:03 <GAN800> No camel case
Nov 22 12:54:26 <GAN800> Where's the list?
Nov 22 12:54:29 * RST38h hasn't finished with all the items yet, sorry. But of course you are free to help :)
Nov 22 12:54:34 <RST38h> I killed the list
Nov 22 12:54:46 <RST38h> Replaced it with ===
Nov 22 12:54:55 <GAN800> ok
Nov 22 12:55:01 <ShadowJK_> lol, atom cpu
Nov 22 12:55:03 <GAN800> Thanks, though. ;)
Nov 22 12:55:19 * GAN800 is horizontal.
Nov 22 12:55:33 <Stskeeps> RST38h: "Internet Tablets Will Die Because I Bought An Iphone instead"
Nov 22 12:56:40 <RST38h> Sts: It is there already
Nov 22 12:57:28 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 22 12:57:51 <Stskeeps> was more meant as "IT sucks cos it made me buy a competitor instead" :P
Nov 22 12:58:41 <milhouse> Sssssh.... iPhone != competition (allegedly)
Nov 22 12:58:45 <aquatix> whuh? stylus clicks? ah indeed, my n810 has a stylus!
Nov 22 12:58:51 * aquatix always uses his fingers ;)
Nov 22 12:59:44 <Khertan_n810> Hi !
Nov 22 13:00:22 <Khertan_n810> someone know a 2d game engine that could work in python to render a 2d space fighting game ?
Nov 22 13:02:58 <lcuk> Khertan, doesnt sdl have an interface for python?
Nov 22 13:04:05 <Khertan_n810> i mean a game engine
Nov 22 13:04:15 <Khertan_n810> not doing the engine myself :)
Nov 22 13:05:06 <ShadowJK_> I've recently somehow gained the ability to use finger to push the snooze button in my sleep when N810 alarm goes off, this is not a good thing
Nov 22 13:05:06 <lcuk> what do you need though? collision detection? sprites? high score table?
Nov 22 13:05:25 <ShadowJK_> there's pygame, but it's not an engine
Nov 22 13:05:34 <lcuk> ShadowJK_, that snooze button needs to be even smaller than the 2mm it is already, and it needs to move around randomly
Nov 22 13:06:07 <ShadowJK_> you can also snooze by pushing any of the hardware keys, it seems
Nov 22 13:06:48 <Khertan_n810> lcuk ... sprite displaying ...
Nov 22 13:06:57 <Khertan_n810> sprite collision
Nov 22 13:07:05 <Khertan_n810> but optionnal
Nov 22 13:07:06 <Khertan_n810> :)
Nov 22 13:07:38 <Khertan_n810> many things should be calc by the server to avoid cheating
Nov 22 13:07:46 <lcuk> sdl load image, blit image
Nov 22 13:07:50 <Khertan_n810> i m going eating
Nov 22 13:07:56 <lcuk> om nom nom
Nov 22 13:08:01 <Khertan_n810> see you latet
Nov 22 13:08:04 <Khertan_n810> latee
Nov 22 13:08:05 <Khertan_n810> later
Nov 22 13:08:54 * lcuk should put a python front end on liqbase
Nov 22 13:10:23 <konttori_> lcuk: yeah, you should
Nov 22 13:10:38 <lcuk> heh
Nov 22 13:11:24 <lcuk> morning konttori_ :) what abstraction level do you desire though
Nov 22 13:11:47 <lcuk> just a customizable screen with drawing tools (plus image/font)
Nov 22 13:11:58 <lcuk> or full widgetset stuff with kinetics
Nov 22 13:13:20 <konttori_> well, drawing tools would be a good first step
Nov 22 13:13:25 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: couldn't keep away from the screen? :P
Nov 22 13:13:37 <konttori_> otoh, don't do it for me. I have hardly time to work at all on code.
Nov 22 13:13:47 <konttori_> so, I would probably not be able to make use of the libqbase
Nov 22 13:13:55 <konttori_> even though I would definitely love te
Nov 22 13:13:56 <konttori_> to
Nov 22 13:13:57 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, no, irc lures me in :D
Nov 22 13:18:50 <lcuk> we can put a ban on your if you like?
Nov 22 13:19:44 <qwerty12_N800> noooooooooo
Nov 22 13:20:12 <lcuk> heh
Nov 22 13:20:55 <lcuk> bbl
Nov 22 13:26:39 <guysoft42> lcuk, what module does one need for a keyboard/
Nov 22 13:26:40 <guysoft42> ?
Nov 22 13:26:54 <guysoft42> because i think it works when i plug a hub in
Nov 22 13:27:16 <Stskeeps> someone give me a good codename line for Mer releases
Nov 22 13:27:24 <Stskeeps> (like debian's lenny/sid, etc)
Nov 22 13:27:36 <yerga> qwerty12_N800, the gftp you have in maemobox, is the hildonized one?
Nov 22 13:27:36 <qwerty12_N800> ganja
Nov 22 13:27:46 <lcuk> look on the bottom of your keyboard, tell me what ma rating it has, the n8x0 can only drive MAXIMUM of 100ma, if it gets close it wont work properly - a hub however will overcome any power deficiencies of hardware
Nov 22 13:28:15 <qwerty12_N800> yerga, I wish :). I couldn't get bundyo's stuff to apply
Nov 22 13:28:33 <yerga> ah, ok.
Nov 22 13:28:45 <yerga> I have the hildonized debs, but not the source.
Nov 22 13:29:13 <Stskeeps> codename line, famous maemo people? :P
Nov 22 13:29:18 <guysoft42> lcuk, it does not seem to say
Nov 22 13:29:29 <guysoft42> le leds blink thaugh when i connect it
Nov 22 13:29:59 <qwerty12_N800> guysoft42, afaik, a dmesg after plugging in the keyboard will tell you if current  is too high
Nov 22 13:30:04 <lcuk> i dunno then, im a bit busy wrangling kids at the mo, all devices should have a rating on them
Nov 22 13:30:19 <anddam> anyone around willing to give an advice? I'm trying to figure if shoul go for a n770 or an n800
Nov 22 13:30:44 <anddam> I never used any of them
Nov 22 13:31:13 <konttori_> anddam: n800. It has more mem and has supported os
Nov 22 13:32:04 <anddam> I see, n770 are way cheaper tho'
Nov 22 13:32:31 <guysoft42> the controler mode is at a_wait_vrise still :S
Nov 22 13:32:34 <anddam> konttori_: I'd basically do 3 tasks: basic PIM, calculus, and ebook reading
Nov 22 13:32:46 <soap> that's Palm territory.
Nov 22 13:33:05 * Stskeeps goes for futurama characters.
Nov 22 13:33:11 <konttori_> for ebook, 770 is better
Nov 22 13:33:12 <soap> and not leveraging the strengths of the Nokias
Nov 22 13:33:15 <anddam> soap: I have one but I'd like to switch
Nov 22 13:33:18 <konttori_> it just feels better in your palm
Nov 22 13:33:28 <konttori_> but the screen on n800 is better
Nov 22 13:33:30 <soap> I currently read on a Zire 72.
Nov 22 13:33:45 <soap> Not as good as the b/w 320x320 Clies, but not bad.
Nov 22 13:33:48 <konttori_> 770 and fbreader is terrific
Nov 22 13:33:55 <anddam> soap: I'd be interested in mathematic software too, so linux is a more viable choice
Nov 22 13:34:30 <anddam> and the Clié is just too tiny to do comfortable data input
Nov 22 13:35:05 <anddam> I'd like to use octave and maxima thus replacing my TI89
Nov 22 13:35:07 <soap> that is the downside.
Nov 22 13:35:39 <anddam> how long does battery last with continuous use?
Nov 22 13:35:44 <soap> I used to run a HP48 emulator on my Palm, but if you're used to algebraic entry that won't address your wants.
Nov 22 13:35:52 <soap> on which?
Nov 22 13:35:56 <anddam> both
Nov 22 13:36:44 <soap> Clie S20 = 8 hours, Zire72 = 4 hours, N810 = 5 hours or more doing that sort of thing, 770 I don't know.
Nov 22 13:37:09 <anddam> I own an SJ20 too
Nov 22 13:37:23 <soap> yes - forgot the J
Nov 22 13:37:23 <anddam> I bought it for long battery life, great device indeed
Nov 22 13:37:34 <anddam> but basically it's getting dust in the closet
Nov 22 13:37:43 <soap> fucking memorystick, though.
Nov 22 13:38:03 <soap> Why I got the Zire72, SD and no more unique dock connector, a real mini-usb.
Nov 22 13:38:10 <anddam> I'd like to take a new exciting device, I can see a couple n770 ending soon on ebay and was wondering if I could live with it
Nov 22 13:38:23 <anddam> is the whole system stored in flash?
Nov 22 13:38:56 <anddam> I read about the HackerEdition and was wondering what exactly is the problem in using OS2008 on the 770
Nov 22 13:38:58 <anddam> RAM?
Nov 22 13:40:16 <konttori_> ram is the biggest issue
Nov 22 13:40:22 <konttori_> 770 has only 64 MB ram
Nov 22 13:40:25 <soap> don't know - is it even the same ARM family?  I don't know.
Nov 22 13:40:36 <Meizirkki> flash size? n8x0 = 256, 770 = 128
Nov 22 13:40:43 <RST38h> GAN: Still here?
Nov 22 13:40:49 <konttori_> 770 is 17x0 and n800 is arm 2xx0
Nov 22 13:40:50 <RST38h> GAN: I have completed the page, more or less: http://wiki.maemo.org/TabletDeath
Nov 22 13:41:00 <konttori_> (can't remember the exact models)
Nov 22 13:41:26 <soap> but are they both arm4?
Nov 22 13:41:59 <anddam> Meizirkki: yes, the point being if OS2008 more than 64Mb
Nov 22 13:42:20 <qwerty12_N800> soap, n8x0 is armv6
Nov 22 13:42:45 <konttori_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMAP
Nov 22 13:43:03 <soap> yea if it is the N770 is v5
Nov 22 13:43:05 <konttori_> 770 has 1710
Nov 22 13:43:23 <soap> which is the ARM+DSP, the ARM is a ARMv5TEJ
Nov 22 13:44:09 <soap> so if the 8x0 is v6, it is not binary compatible with v5s
Nov 22 13:44:12 <anddam> I'm wondering what "OS2007HE combined the binary parts of OS2006 with most of the updated libraries and user-space applications of OS2007" exactly means
Nov 22 13:44:55 <anddam> soap: but it can be compiled for both target, can't it?
Nov 22 13:45:26 <soap> likely
Nov 22 13:45:53 <konttori_> 2007 and 2006 are binary incompatible if I remember correctly
Nov 22 13:46:56 <anddam> ok but when you've got sources that's not a big  issue
Nov 22 13:49:11 <soap> do you have sources for everything?
Nov 22 13:49:21 <anddam> not personally
Nov 22 13:49:24 <soap> I was under the impression some stuff was in binary blobs.
Nov 22 13:49:41 <anddam> soap: I never approached maemo before as I don't own a device
Nov 22 13:49:49 <anddam> I was assuming it was all oss
Nov 22 13:50:10 <anddam> I'll go with n770 and eventually I can resell it and buy an 800
Nov 22 13:50:29 <soap> I haven't gotten into building yet, that is actually this weekend's goal, so I'm not yet 100%, still reading.
Nov 22 13:54:56 <qwerty12_N800> yerga, Tried out the hildonized gftp, not bad. Unless you have plans to (preferably as I only know basic hildonization), I could hildonize it?
Nov 22 14:01:37 <anddam> too bad, lost it
Nov 22 14:02:41 <yerga> qwerty12_N800, I was going to hildonize it and upload to extras, but if you can to do it, I would save work and time ;)
Nov 22 14:04:50 <yerga> I have asked in the maemoftp forum if the developer could upload it to extras too, else I would do
Nov 22 14:04:59 <yerga> today seems a ftp day ;)
Nov 22 14:05:02 <qwerty12_N800> Ok. I'll try and hildonise as much of it as possible, if I flop on something, I'll pass over my current work to you.
Nov 22 14:05:30 <yerga> qwerty12_N800, ok, thanks!
Nov 22 14:05:39 <qwerty12_N800> Heh, first time ever that I've connected to microsoft's ftp :P
Nov 22 14:05:41 <qwerty12_N800> :)
Nov 22 14:08:20 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, TabletDeath is brilliant
Nov 22 14:08:30 <anddam> bye
Nov 22 14:10:03 <sp3000> bash people!
Nov 22 14:10:34 <sp3000> is there a way to hide a command from set -x ?
Nov 22 14:11:02 * sp3000 would like to just get the xtrace output for a single line, and not for the following line which happens to be set +x
Nov 22 14:11:41 <RST38h> qwerty: I tried to do my best =)
Nov 22 14:11:58 <qwerty12_N800> hehe :)
Nov 22 14:23:12 <zap> nice, just misses one point: "Q: Internet tablets will die! A: No, they won't!"
Nov 22 14:24:57 <RST38h> zap: I have just added it. As a disclaimer
Nov 22 14:25:12 <zap> 't was a joke rather :)
Nov 22 14:26:17 <zap> good page anyway, this question is raised on forums again and again
Nov 22 14:26:52 <RST38h> zap: I did not see your comment until I added it :)
Nov 22 14:34:14 <guysoft42> hey, um ,how can i compile stuff for the nokia 810 on my laptop? since the nokia is an ARM, and i have a pentium M here..
Nov 22 14:34:38 <RST38h> guysoft: You need to download and install Maemo SDK
Nov 22 14:34:42 <guysoft42> is there a cross-compiler that is simple to get?
Nov 22 14:34:52 <guysoft42> RST38h, is it in deb form?
Nov 22 14:34:55 <RST38h> guysoft: And it requires Linux, so you better start by installing Linux
Nov 22 14:35:42 <RST38h> guysoft: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_4-1-1_diablo_sdk/
Nov 22 14:37:06 <guysoft42> ah, found a repo :)
Nov 22 14:37:30 * guysoft42 has been using only linux the past 6 years
Nov 22 14:38:15 <RST38h> guysoft: Do follow the instructions though
Nov 22 14:38:35 <RST38h> Otherwise, you will have problems (happened before)
Nov 22 14:39:00 <guysoft42> RST38h, i will. sorry.. i am a little unorganized sometimes
Nov 22 14:51:06 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: is there mer repo with some armel packages?
Nov 22 14:51:13 <Meizirkki> like boot-things
Nov 22 14:51:46 <Meizirkki> or xserver-xorg-video-omapfb
Nov 22 14:53:11 <Stskeeps> not yet sorry
Nov 22 14:53:22 <Stskeeps> i will get to that when i'm done with the big build box
Nov 22 14:53:55 * sp3000 goes for a subshell
Nov 22 14:53:56 <Meizirkki> okay
Nov 22 14:54:23 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: the xserver-xorg-video-omapfb seems to conflict with jauntys xserver-xorg
Nov 22 14:54:35 <Stskeeps> hmm?
Nov 22 14:59:26 <Stskeeps> conflict how? :P
Nov 22 15:02:56 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: first i install xserver-xorg, then force-architecture xserver-xorg-video-omapfb, on the dpkg says something about xserver-xorg-video-2 and it conflicts with xserver-xorg-core
Nov 22 15:03:09 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 22 15:03:15 <Stskeeps> we'll look into it i guess
Nov 22 15:30:13 <Meizirkki> Where should i put that umac.so i got from initfs, to get wlan working
Nov 22 15:33:31 <Meizirkki> *umac.ko
Nov 22 15:36:51 <Stskeeps> lib/modules/2*/ or something
Nov 22 15:37:57 <Meizirkki> ok
Nov 22 15:43:40 <goldbug> Hi.  I've installed Easy Debian on my N800 and was wondering if there's a way to increase the virtual desktop size (so moving the mouse to the edge of the screen causes it to scroll)?  Thanks.
Nov 22 15:45:34 <Stskeeps> if you find out, i'd like to know too :P
Nov 22 15:56:59 <zakkm> anyone know where i could find black/grayscale icons for the n800/diablo ?
Nov 22 15:57:25 <zakkm> or a guide that would teach me do it myself
Nov 22 15:58:36 <RST38h> zakkm: Wikipedia has icons
Nov 22 15:58:37 <konttori_> zakkm: copy all of the icons from /usr/share/icons/hildon/scalable
Nov 22 15:58:44 <RST38h> querty
Nov 22 15:59:03 <konttori_> after you have copied them, runthem all through a filter that turns them to grayscale
Nov 22 15:59:22 <qwerty12> RJT38h
Nov 22 15:59:25 <zakkm> then just replace?
Nov 22 15:59:26 <konttori_> (whatever that is in your system... imagemagick perhaps on linux on perhaps photoshop on other platforms)
Nov 22 15:59:28 <konttori_> yeah
Nov 22 15:59:32 <zakkm> i have mac osx
Nov 22 15:59:37 <zakkm> i got linux on a dualboot though
Nov 22 15:59:38 <konttori_> just replace the existing ones after you are done
Nov 22 15:59:42 <zakkm> so i might do imagemagick
Nov 22 16:00:04 <konttori_> well, on osx, you might even be able to use the osx scripting to make them grayscale
Nov 22 16:00:17 <konttori_> however, whatever makes you tick. should be easy enough to dl.
Nov 22 16:00:32 <zakkm> :D
Nov 22 16:00:42 <zakkm> i got a nice wallpaper that i think would look cool with grayscale icons
Nov 22 16:00:53 <zakkm> ohh
Nov 22 16:00:56 <zakkm> where are the program icons?
Nov 22 16:01:08 <zakkm> would like to change those too
Nov 22 16:01:59 <qwerty12> /usr/share/pixmaps or /usr/share/icons depending on the mood of the developer/packager. dpkg -L <package name> is likely to be a better bet for finding the icon
Nov 22 16:03:33 <zakkm> oh cool they're there :P
Nov 22 16:03:36 <zakkm> thanks :)
Nov 22 16:17:08 * RST38h wonders whether he should port the virtual keyboard from S60 to Maemo
Nov 22 16:17:11 <Stskeeps> ~curse APT
Nov 22 16:17:12 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, APT !
Nov 22 16:17:28 <lcuk> RST38h, whats the difference? doesnt hildon one do you
Nov 22 16:20:11 <RST38h> lcuk: hildon one obscures too much of the screen and does not generate events I need
Nov 22 16:20:55 <lcuk> ahhh, but at least you have choice
Nov 22 16:23:36 <hahlobit> seems that apt on xterm handles more than that gui front end on diablo, why is that?
Nov 22 16:24:00 <konttori_> handles what?
Nov 22 16:24:10 <qwerty12> hahlobit, feel free to port & hildonise synaptic ;)
Nov 22 16:24:14 <hahlobit> like installing depencies
Nov 22 16:24:33 <konttori_> both install dependencies
Nov 22 16:25:06 <qwerty12> The only time h-a-m doesn't install dependencies is if you are installing from a local file as opposed to a repo
Nov 22 16:25:18 <konttori_> true
Nov 22 16:25:22 <hahlobit> but with gui i couldn't install something which xterm installs
Nov 22 16:25:30 <qwerty12> But it's no biggie to dpkg -i <deb file> && apt-get -f install
Nov 22 16:25:56 <konttori_> true
Nov 22 16:26:04 <konttori_> as long as end user packages work on appman
Nov 22 16:26:15 <konttori_> it's not like appman would be hacker tool
Nov 22 16:26:27 <konttori_> or developer tool
Nov 22 16:26:49 <qwerty12> Yeah. When I was looking at trunk appman, I did see a red pill option called use apt-get algorithms - maybe it relates to situations like these?
Nov 22 16:26:54 <hahlobit> is appman as good than synaptic is in other distros?
Nov 22 16:27:42 <konttori_> probably not
Nov 22 16:27:55 <konttori_> well, it isn't in the normal mode
Nov 22 16:28:03 <konttori_> in red pill it's about as capable as any
Nov 22 16:28:12 <konttori_> but that's not 'end user' territory
Nov 22 16:28:22 <hahlobit> ok
Nov 22 16:34:48 <hahlobit> does infobot know howto easily fix reboot loop
Nov 22 16:35:05 <hahlobit> ~reboot loop
Nov 22 16:35:06 * infobot pushes loop's reset button
Nov 22 16:35:08 <qwerty12> infobot, do you know how to easily fix a reboot loop?
Nov 22 16:35:09 <infobot> yes, I know how to easily fix a reboot loop.
Nov 22 16:35:15 <qwerty12> ;)
Nov 22 16:36:14 <lcuk> how do i get gmail to show me a list of mails ordered by attachment size
Nov 22 16:36:27 <hahlobit> connect flash cable and then add battery?
Nov 22 16:37:05 <hahlobit> i try that
Nov 22 16:37:48 <zakkm> who programmed infobot? :P
Nov 22 16:39:40 <RST38h> lcuk: no choice for me as far as emulatio
Nov 22 16:40:06 <lcuk> i know in your emu, you are as tied as me
Nov 22 16:40:12 <RST38h> sorry, that was a stale message
Nov 22 16:40:20 <aquatix> lcuk: load it in your favourite imap mail client and click the size column?
Nov 22 16:40:25 <lcuk> yeah it did whiff a bit
Nov 22 16:40:53 <lcuk> ouch aquatix heh, im using about 3gb
Nov 22 16:41:15 <lcuk> i have just sifted through - it was only a few days ago, so only a couple of hundred mails
Nov 22 16:41:16 <zakkm> just get it to read the headers, not download the emails
Nov 22 16:41:16 <zakkm> ;p
Nov 22 16:41:26 <lcuk> headers show attachment size?
Nov 22 16:41:40 <RST38h> mime headers do
Nov 22 16:42:05 <lcuk> its ok anyway, in the however many years ive had the account ive never needed this, but in my outlook express its simple ;)
Nov 22 16:42:19 <zakkm> so use outlook express ;p
Nov 22 16:42:28 <lcuk> different account
Nov 22 16:42:38 <zakkm> so add your gmail ;p
Nov 22 16:42:41 <lcuk> and trying to rid myself of desktop app
Nov 22 16:42:45 <zakkm> oh
Nov 22 16:43:05 <zakkm> OS in a browser :P
Nov 22 16:43:36 <lcuk> nahhh, just webmail makes sense
Nov 22 16:43:46 <lcuk> apart from braindead hotmail
Nov 22 16:44:03 <zakkm> :P
Nov 22 16:44:09 * zakkm likes Apple's Mail program
Nov 22 16:44:27 * lcuk checks if he has a fruity computer
Nov 22 16:45:00 <lcuk> its more bacony
Nov 22 16:56:31 <admin_> Hi, I've got an n770 running n800 OS, is the max. mmc card I can use 2GB? thanks
Nov 22 16:58:07 <zakkm> believe so
Nov 22 16:58:13 <zakkm> isnt it slow?
Nov 22 16:58:20 <zakkm> Hacker editions
Nov 22 16:59:22 <Stskeeps> admin_: google "Support for SDHC cards and higher SD/MMC speeds for Nokia 770"
Nov 22 16:59:49 <admin_> Stskeeps: even though it's running n800he
Nov 22 17:00:12 <zakkm> sounds slow ;p
Nov 22 17:00:31 <admin_> like would this work http://tinyurl.com/6n6see
Nov 22 17:01:07 <admin_> zakkm: well when you use swap from the mmc card, it's bearable :P
Nov 22 17:04:19 <zakkm> really? wow
Nov 22 17:05:38 <admin_> yeah, but the uh..number escapes me, but the latest n8** HE is terribly slow even with swap
Nov 22 17:05:59 <zakkm> yeah thats what i once tried on my old 770
Nov 22 17:06:05 <zakkm> in the end i just used 2006
Nov 22 17:06:05 <admin_> zakkm: any idea if the card on that link will work?
Nov 22 17:06:08 <admin_> ah
Nov 22 17:06:14 <zakkm> oh sorry, didnt see
Nov 22 17:06:33 <hahlobit> is possible to really break the device without throwing it, mine doesn't seem to run anymore
Nov 22 17:06:34 <zakkm> id say yes
Nov 22 17:06:38 <admin_> :D
Nov 22 17:06:45 <admin_> lol
Nov 22 17:07:10 <admin_> I thought I bricked mine once back in the day - I just let it sit overnight and then it worked
Nov 22 17:07:26 <hahlobit> good plan
Nov 22 17:07:33 <Stskeeps> hahlobit: except when you brick boot loader you're usually able to flash it
Nov 22 17:07:51 <Stskeeps> does it show the NOKIA logo?
Nov 22 17:07:58 <admin_> I just bought one of those car casette adapters , you know so you can play mp3 player or whatever through car stereo, so I want a larger card for music on my nokia
Nov 22 17:08:15 <hahlobit> yes it reboots or shutdown
Nov 22 17:08:34 <hahlobit> tried to flash it couple of times
Nov 22 17:08:40 <Stskeeps> hahlobit: then there's hope left :P got a linux computer?
Nov 22 17:08:49 <hahlobit> yes
Nov 22 17:09:03 <qwerty12> hahlobit, is it actually charged? my tablet wouldn't go into flashing mode unless it had a decent amount of battery
Nov 22 17:09:29 <hahlobit> ok i try to charge some more
Nov 22 17:09:49 <zakkm> leave it charged for a good 12 hours or something insanely
Nov 22 17:10:10 <hahlobit> ok
Nov 22 17:10:18 <zakkm> try a different outlet too
Nov 22 17:24:21 <disco_stu> someone has problems with wifiinfo after updating it?
Nov 22 17:24:34 <lcuk> ahhah
Nov 22 17:24:48 * lcuk has been waiting for you
Nov 22 17:25:10 <zakkm> i have the newest wifi info, and it causes me no problems.
Nov 22 17:25:16 * disco_stu is afraid of lcuk 
Nov 22 17:25:30 <lcuk> you shouldnt be :P did you see the message i left you
Nov 22 17:25:41 <disco_stu> it starts and then closes
Nov 22 17:25:43 <Jaffa> Oh dear. The start of the Star Trek trailer really is that bad
Nov 22 17:25:52 <disco_stu> lcuk, no i didnt
Nov 22 17:26:27 <lcuk> have you still got it open
Nov 22 17:26:36 <lcuk> cos it would save me having to hunt it down again :P
Nov 22 17:27:10 <disco_stu> lcuk, open.. what ?
Nov 22 17:27:27 <lcuk> i left you a pm yesterday
Nov 22 17:40:49 <disco_stu> it would be awesome to do something like the app in the video
Nov 22 17:40:58 <lcuk> its entirely possible
Nov 22 17:41:40 <zakkm> would battery life work well in deblet?
Nov 22 17:41:49 <disco_stu> im watching davis cup, thats why im answering slowly
Nov 22 17:42:43 <lcuk> step into #liqbase and grab the .deb from jager, it will give ideas, obviously liqbase itself could give the graphics required
Nov 22 17:43:19 <disco_stu> lcuk, ok :)
Nov 22 17:43:46 <disco_stu> hope we can set a teamwork
Nov 22 17:44:25 <lcuk> yeah agreed :)
Nov 22 17:53:53 <disco_stu> lcuk, wich appz use libqbase?
Nov 22 17:54:06 <zakkm> lcuk: why is the camera.. tiled ?
Nov 22 17:54:09 <zakkm> in liqbase
Nov 22 18:04:51 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: Where do we need xserver-xorg-video-omapfb?
Nov 22 18:05:00 <Meizirkki> Xorg seems to work without it
Nov 22 18:05:24 <Meizirkki> and i did not even create symbolic link from fb0 to fb
Nov 22 18:05:51 <Meizirkki> Has it something to do with tslib?
Nov 22 18:11:51 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: well, you're probably using fbdev
Nov 22 18:11:58 <Stskeeps> which is awesomely slower :P
Nov 22 18:12:05 <Meizirkki> Okay
Nov 22 18:12:12 <Stskeeps> if you were to do any kind of graphically intensive stuff, or video, it will suck :P
Nov 22 18:13:53 <Stskeeps> so you're runnign ubuntu now? :P
Nov 22 18:14:05 <Stskeeps> desktop
Nov 22 18:14:26 <Meizirkki> trying to
Nov 22 18:26:13 <inherited> is anyone running the maemo sdk on archlinux?
Nov 22 18:27:40 <penguinbait> When I plug in a USB hard drive, it automounts available partitions.  Is there a script or some hal command that I can rerun to make it automount again if I have unmounted them, without having to unplug and replugin the usb disk??  Anyone with any ideas?
Nov 22 18:28:13 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: Ubuntu runs, no mouse, and it is slow
Nov 22 18:32:13 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: well fbdev probably doesnt help on it
Nov 22 18:32:21 <Stskeeps> not that our omapfb works much better atm
Nov 22 18:32:32 <Stskeeps> cos of not doing manual updates in the ver we have
Nov 22 18:36:13 <zakkm> Meizirkki: ubuntu on the nokia?
Nov 22 18:42:15 <Meizirkki> zakkm:yes
Nov 22 18:42:59 <zakkm> wow thats cool :)
Nov 22 18:43:23 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: the omapfb does not work on jaunty you remember :P
Nov 22 18:43:27 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: yes, i do :P
Nov 22 18:43:30 <Stskeeps> just telling why it may be slow
Nov 22 18:43:37 <Meizirkki> yep
Nov 22 18:43:37 <Stskeeps> .. and the fact it's friggen ubuntu
Nov 22 18:44:02 <Meizirkki> gnome have always been slow on tablet
Nov 22 18:44:20 <zakkm> why ubuntu?
Nov 22 18:44:40 <zakkm> why not do ubuntu-server and apt-get a DE or something
Nov 22 18:44:41 <Meizirkki> just trying :P
Nov 22 18:44:44 <zakkm> so it would be quicker to test
Nov 22 18:45:03 <Meizirkki> i don't know if ubuntu-server is installable
Nov 22 18:45:03 <zakkm> screen space must suck too
Nov 22 18:45:04 <zakkm> for gnome
Nov 22 18:45:13 <zakkm> if ubuntu is, why not ubuntu-server?
Nov 22 18:45:17 <Meizirkki> waiting for LXDE and u-m
Nov 22 18:46:00 <Meizirkki> zakkm: offical ubuntu on arm is taking it's first steps
Nov 22 18:46:15 <zakkm> ubuntu server is official.
Nov 22 18:46:26 <zakkm> ah
Nov 22 18:46:37 <Meizirkki> on arm?
Nov 22 18:46:41 <zakkm> why though? sounds odd.. debian is for arm
Nov 22 18:46:50 <zakkm> why would it take so long
Nov 22 18:46:52 <Meizirkki> debian is for armv4
Nov 22 18:47:13 <Meizirkki> ubuntu releases this far support armv5
Nov 22 18:47:27 <zakkm> what is the tablet?
Nov 22 18:47:38 <Meizirkki> both will work on n8x0 (armv6el)
Nov 22 18:47:55 <Meizirkki> mojo have ported hardy to armv6el
Nov 22 18:48:16 <zakkm> screen space sucks though for non hildon.. doesnt it?
Nov 22 18:48:40 <Meizirkki> the offical ubuntu this far, is just devenlopment branch
Nov 22 18:48:58 <zakkm> i want to evantually use fvwm -crystal on my nokia
Nov 22 18:50:51 <Meizirkki> armv5/6 is a lot faster than debians armv4 port, thats why ubuntu. Gnome is only installable desktop environment on offical ubuntu this far...
Nov 22 18:51:09 <Meizirkki> So i tried it
Nov 22 18:51:22 <l7> why ubuntu server in particular?
Nov 22 18:51:45 <Meizirkki> Gnome looks good, but it really is slow when comparing to fvwm of LXDE
Nov 22 18:52:01 <l7> the tablet does make a neat low power server for small tasks i guess
Nov 22 18:52:39 <l7> gnome does seem like overkill for the tablet
Nov 22 18:53:12 <Meizirkki> i know, i just TRIED it
Nov 22 18:55:48 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: welcome to my world
Nov 22 18:56:28 <Meizirkki> ? :P
Nov 22 18:57:10 * qwerty12_N800 sighs as 9 hours worth of work is installed on my tablet finally
Nov 22 18:57:18 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: which?
Nov 22 18:57:47 <lcuk> disco_stu, liqbase uses liqbase..
Nov 22 18:58:07 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, mpd with all the extras and everything optimised (even as far back as osso-esd)
Nov 22 18:58:28 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: ah
Nov 22 18:58:52 <Stskeeps> i'm writing a scary builder :P
Nov 22 18:58:58 <qwerty12_N800> this also means i can compile sox with mp3 support too as i compiled lame :)
Nov 22 19:00:53 <SmackPotat> i'm not getting very far in trying to mount a usb device on a 770
Nov 22 19:01:42 <SmackPotat> amy hints
Nov 22 19:01:48 <SmackPotat> any
Nov 22 19:08:06 <jagernot> cant open the microphone using esound. whole maemo crashes
Nov 22 19:08:23 <jagernot> any ideas? thanks.
Nov 22 19:33:16 <l7> has anyone figured out how to type at a decent speed on the thumbboard?
Nov 22 19:34:04 <lcuk> yeah, buy a bt
Nov 22 20:12:20 <lcuk> evening rm_you enjoying your weekend?
Nov 22 20:14:34 <jagernot> anybody has code to read data from microphone...if possible not gstreamer as used in maemo-recorder
Nov 22 20:16:27 <andre__> why not gstreamer?
Nov 22 20:17:44 <jagernot> cos i use esound for audio out
Nov 22 20:18:12 <jagernot> but when i tried opening audio in with esound while having audio out it brings down my tablet :(
Nov 22 20:18:20 <jagernot> total crash
Nov 22 20:19:47 <qwerty12_N800> does the led light up?
Nov 22 20:22:14 <jagernot> i cant get the home menu
Nov 22 20:22:19 <jagernot> but when i press the on/off button
Nov 22 20:22:23 <jagernot> it allows me to switch off
Nov 22 20:22:31 <jagernot> clean shutdown happens
Nov 22 20:22:48 <lcuk> touchscreen dead?
Nov 22 20:22:48 <jagernot> then doesnt turn on..so i have to freeze it for a few mins..then it does..
Nov 22 20:23:16 <jagernot> touchscreen is dead...so is the window list menu key
Nov 22 20:23:23 <lcuk> freeze it?
Nov 22 20:23:28 <jagernot> yeah
Nov 22 20:23:36 <jagernot> cos it doesnt turn back on when it turns off
Nov 22 20:23:49 <rm_you> lcuk: no >_<
Nov 22 20:23:50 <lcuk> thats because its never fully turned off
Nov 22 20:24:05 <lcuk> sounds like something is munching cpu cycles for fun
Nov 22 20:24:16 <lcuk> have you tried simply shutting off and popping the battery
Nov 22 20:24:24 <lcuk> freezing seems highly drawstic
Nov 22 20:24:27 <lcuk> rm_you, :(
Nov 22 20:24:33 <jagernot> this is related to the 'power on drama'
Nov 22 20:25:00 <lcuk> your a dev, take a guess at whats happening
Nov 22 20:25:01 <jagernot> its documented as tablet too hot and software bug doesnt let it boot when its hot..
Nov 22 20:25:20 <jagernot> i know im a dev
Nov 22 20:25:28 <lcuk> wow, can i have your crashy code
Nov 22 20:25:31 <jagernot> u are busy writing instead of reading :D
Nov 22 20:25:32 <lcuk> i wanna duplicate it
Nov 22 20:25:45 <jagernot> search 'power on drama'
Nov 22 20:25:52 <lcuk> i can also show you something that turns the lcd into a lens
Nov 22 20:25:58 <lcuk> no, i mean your reproducable code
Nov 22 20:26:16 <lcuk> ive never had a "drama" though ive had processes lockup and remain even when device is shutdown
Nov 22 20:26:23 <lcuk> ive had things drawn over the charging logo :$
Nov 22 20:26:40 <jagernot> whenever i turn the tablet off even if i dont run my app
Nov 22 20:26:43 <jagernot> it fails to start back on
Nov 22 20:27:03 <lcuk> shit dude, yes i do, but why are you floating and not in a dialog window
Nov 22 20:27:22 <jagernot> ??
Nov 22 20:27:29 <rm_you> he's talking to me
Nov 22 20:27:41 <rm_you> i'm using /notice instead of PM
Nov 22 20:27:43 <lcuk> sorry jagernot ive got someone floating words in the irc stream instead of them being in an IM window
Nov 22 20:28:01 <jagernot> oh ok
Nov 22 20:28:05 <rm_you> PMs get lost... notices usually go in the active window
Nov 22 20:28:09 <rm_you> wherever that window is
Nov 22 20:28:23 <lcuk> yeah, i would treat that as a privacy violation if i were elsewhere ;)
Nov 22 20:28:35 <rm_you> lol
Nov 22 20:28:42 <lcuk> i might have to leave you in the toilets all night if you do it again :P
Nov 22 20:28:52 <rm_you> >_<
Nov 22 20:28:56 <rm_you> I was enjoying the floor
Nov 22 20:29:03 <rm_you> it was nice and stable
Nov 22 20:29:10 <rm_you> not spinning or tilting or anything
Nov 22 20:29:15 <lcuk> yeah, and warm as well
Nov 22 20:29:16 <rm_you> real quality floor
Nov 22 20:29:26 <lcuk> yellow tint though
Nov 22 20:29:33 <rm_you> <_<
Nov 22 20:29:54 <lcuk> ive been like that often
Nov 22 20:30:03 <lcuk> well, many times, not often
Nov 22 20:32:15 <sp3000> ahh the thread just keeps on giving!
Nov 22 20:32:31 <lcuk> which one?
Nov 22 20:33:17 <lcuk> ahh
Nov 22 20:33:17 <lcuk> ..
Nov 22 20:33:53 <qwerty12_N800> sp3000, he fails to realise kismet was already removed from that repo before the request to shutdown that repo was sent
Nov 22 20:34:32 <sp3000> heh, oops
Nov 22 20:37:05 <Andy80> hi all
Nov 22 20:41:04 <lcuk> hiya andre__
Nov 22 20:41:07 <lcuk> Andy80,
Nov 22 20:41:10 <lcuk> sorry andre__
Nov 22 20:42:03 <Andy80> hi lcuk :)
Nov 22 20:42:29 <andre__> np
Nov 22 20:43:08 * lcuk yawns and stretches and wonders how to proceed
Nov 22 20:44:12 <lcuk> should i code then get drunk or get drunk then code
Nov 22 20:45:12 <Stskeeps> get drunk code and get more drunk
Nov 22 20:45:12 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 22 20:45:28 <lcuk> there is only 1 level of drunkenness
Nov 22 20:46:37 <rm_you> lcuk: not true
Nov 22 20:47:16 <lcuk> heh rm_you, for you there is a little variance, but inevitably you head towards the ground whichever state you are in
Nov 22 20:47:22 <rm_you> There's "kinda drunk", "fairly drunk", "exceedingly drunk", and "way too drunk", just to name a few
Nov 22 20:47:32 <sp3000> let's all get drunk andd flame on maemo-users :D
Nov 22 20:47:48 <lcuk> nahhh sp3000 thats old hat, people have been doing that since yesterday
Nov 22 20:48:07 <sp3000> well we have some catching up to do then
Nov 22 20:48:45 <lcuk> heh
Nov 22 21:22:24 <lcuk> anyone know how i create a poll on itT?
Nov 22 21:23:18 <qwerty12_N800> it's an option when you create a new thread
Nov 22 21:23:29 <qwerty12_N800> where's penguinbait? :P
Nov 22 21:24:29 <lcuk> lol dunno
Nov 22 21:25:24 <lcuk> ahhh well, done now :D
Nov 22 21:57:06 <rm_you> what version of flash are we on now?
Nov 22 21:57:13 <rm_you> i saw it in my upgrade list...
Nov 22 21:57:51 <rm_you> anything I should know about when doing an apt-get upgrade? first time in like 3 months
Nov 22 22:07:25 <qwerty12_N800> rm_you, Shockwave Flash 9.0 r48
Nov 22 22:10:07 <konttori_> hmmm. youtube is so slow to process files
Nov 22 22:10:19 <konttori_> I've been waiting 30 mins to publish a blog post
Nov 22 22:10:23 <konttori_> depressing
Nov 22 22:15:19 <konttori_> Hahaa! ukmp 1.8 out! http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/
Nov 22 22:16:39 <qwerty12_N800> Looks good :)
Nov 22 22:18:31 <Stskeeps> thumbs up. :)
Nov 22 22:19:14 <rm_you> is canola currently broken?
Nov 22 22:19:16 <rm_you> or just me >_>
Nov 22 22:19:46 <RST38h> it's ok
Nov 22 22:19:53 <rm_you> great just me then
Nov 22 22:19:54 <konttori_> thanks
Nov 22 22:19:59 <rm_you> excellent
Nov 22 22:20:14 <RST38h> but you have to uninstall extras devel version
Nov 22 22:20:33 <rm_you> AttributeError: 'TerraConfig' object has no attribute 'app_name' in File "core/main/controller.py", line 287, in _setup_view
Nov 22 22:20:35 <rm_you> thoughts?
Nov 22 22:20:41 <rm_you> never had devel on my tablet :/
Nov 22 22:20:52 <RST38h> weird
Nov 22 22:21:09 <RST38h> you config files may be corrupted
Nov 22 22:21:46 <rm_you> k just removed them
Nov 22 22:21:48 <rm_you> no change
Nov 22 22:21:53 <rm_you> .canola and .atabake
Nov 22 22:22:20 <rm_you> oh well don't have time to deal with this at the moment
Nov 22 22:22:23 <rm_you> hopefully mediabox still works
Nov 22 22:22:46 <rm_you> bbl
Nov 22 22:23:16 * qwerty12_N800 has no time for graphical music players :\
Nov 22 22:24:49 <qnr-lt> I'm starting to get really annoyed at this.  Something that I'm installing is screwing up the boot process.
Nov 22 22:25:12 <qnr-lt> Unfortunately, I tend to install a lot of things at once, so I have no idea what it is :/
Nov 22 22:25:33 * qnr-lt wanders off to see if there is an appropriate bug
Nov 22 22:25:55 <qnr-lt> applicable bug even
Nov 22 22:31:16 <qnr-lt> gonna have to write a script to reinstall everything to mmc2, this is becoming so regular
Nov 22 22:40:25 <GeneralAntilles> Good lord
Nov 22 22:40:28 <GeneralAntilles> That thread is out of control.
Nov 22 22:40:51 <konttori_> what thread
Nov 22 22:41:59 <GeneralAntilles> Another Mark Haury mess on maemo-users
Nov 22 22:42:28 <GeneralAntilles> konttori_, it's sort of funny if you can keep your distance and manage not to get worked up over it. . . . http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2008-November/023123.html
Nov 22 22:43:40 <konttori_> yeah, well, I agree that if people close repos, it would be nice to upload all of the packages to extras
Nov 22 22:44:39 <lcuk> on that subject, as a backup plan, would it be possible to setup a hoovering up mirror which just sucked everything from a specific mirror before its brought down?
Nov 22 22:45:01 <konttori_> that would be great
Nov 22 22:45:24 <konttori_> but, the signing mechanism is probably the reason why that is hard
Nov 22 22:45:31 <lcuk> but its a big job and would need someone on staff to manage it
Nov 22 22:45:38 <lcuk> most stuff is unsigned
Nov 22 22:45:46 <lcuk> and extras no longer requires it
Nov 22 22:45:56 <konttori_> it doesn't require signing?
Nov 22 22:46:00 <lcuk> not any more
Nov 22 22:46:02 <konttori_> phew! so great!
Nov 22 22:46:06 <lcuk> big announcement a couple of weeks ago :)
Nov 22 22:46:08 <lcuk> yeah
Nov 22 22:46:25 <lcuk> about 3 days after i had fecked around and gone round the houses to get it setup and signed
Nov 22 22:46:28 <lcuk> it was such a ballache
Nov 22 22:46:30 * konttori_ doesn't have to manually calculate md5 sums, edit changes files and sign manually.
Nov 22 22:46:42 <lcuk> sounds about like my experience
Nov 22 22:47:09 <konttori_> yeah. I hated every second of it.
Nov 22 22:47:10 <lcuk> though im sure it involved printing the binary out, taking a photo of it on a wooden table, scannign it in and emailing it
Nov 22 22:47:20 <konttori_> Now I'll probably upload ukmp 1.8 pretty soon to repos
Nov 22 22:47:26 <lcuk> heh
Nov 22 22:47:47 <konttori_> lcuk: did you notice that I finally deemed that the current code is good enough to be 1.8 - http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/
Nov 22 22:48:28 <lcuk> ooOOooo  "Mind you, the optimal hand is left hand."
Nov 22 22:48:30 <konttori_> it's nowhere near the smoothness of your code, but I really like it usability wise now.
Nov 22 22:48:31 <lcuk> gonna grab it
Nov 22 22:49:09 <lcuk> doesnt matter, i went very far off piste and scared folks :) im trying to clean it up and see which "nice" library i can slot it under
Nov 22 22:49:27 <lcuk> but tbh, for right now i want to use it to build some apps ;)
Nov 22 22:49:49 <GeneralAntilles> konttori_, and most people do!
Nov 22 22:50:00 <konttori_> yeah. qbase apps will be so cool
Nov 22 22:50:00 <GeneralAntilles> But this particular repo owner decided that the package wasn't useful anymore and didn't.
Nov 22 22:50:06 <lcuk> i hope theres still a landscape mode, i use my wooden crate and its not often sideways
Nov 22 22:50:17 <GeneralAntilles> What did the jerk on the mailing list do first? OF COURSE! Accuse Nokia of some sort of conspiracy.
Nov 22 22:50:27 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, that ALWAYS option #1 for me when I want help. <_<
Nov 22 22:50:31 <konttori_> yeah. it's all nokias fault
Nov 22 22:51:08 <lcuk> konttori_, are you using xrandr for the rotation?
Nov 22 22:51:12 <GeneralAntilles> konttori_, can we not put UXMP in non-free this time around? :)
Nov 22 22:51:16 <konttori_> lcuk: nope
Nov 22 22:51:33 <GeneralAntilles> Making the repository lie isn't very kind.
Nov 22 22:51:34 <konttori_> GeneralAntilles: sure... If I figure out how to make the src package
Nov 22 22:51:42 <GeneralAntilles> ~upload-extras
Nov 22 22:51:43 <infobot> somebody said upload-extras was http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras
Nov 22 22:52:31 <qwerty12_N800> konttori_, is it debianised or do you make a deb manually?
Nov 22 22:52:55 <konttori_> I use dpkg-build to make the package
Nov 22 22:53:16 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: told you that thread could go nuclear :P
Nov 22 22:53:19 <konttori_> so, only theme packages are really crafted manually in theme maker code
Nov 22 22:53:27 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, I'm ready for the nuclear option.
Nov 22 22:53:48 <GeneralAntilles> Mark and sebastian have clearly both long since passed the marker for acceptable mailing list behavior
Nov 22 22:54:01 <konttori_> ah, nope. I'm using dpkg-deb
Nov 22 22:54:31 <GeneralAntilles> Do we have a code of conduct page for the list?
Nov 22 22:54:39 <lcuk> right, bbl
Nov 22 22:54:46 <lcuk> konttori_, get it in extras ;)
Nov 22 22:54:49 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i was just about to suggest a code of conduct of maemo community members..
Nov 22 22:54:52 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 22 22:55:42 <konttori_> thanks ga for teh web upload link. I've been waiting for it for a long time
Nov 22 22:55:50 <konttori_> I didn't know it existed
Nov 22 22:56:26 <qwerty12_N800> konttori_, grab a source package of a python app and steal the debianisations :P. Actually, i debianised a python app for someone recently (bearing in mind i'm not the best packager) : http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/battery-graph.tar.bz2
Nov 22 22:57:31 <konttori_> thanks. i'll test it out tomorrow
Nov 22 22:57:47 <konttori_> I just noticed that I do have dpkg-buildpackage on my osx
Nov 22 22:58:02 <konttori_> So, I might be able to get the src package out somehow
Nov 22 23:00:49 <dsample> Hi
Nov 22 23:01:06 <gentooer> hi
Nov 22 23:01:29 <Myrtti> pft.
Nov 22 23:02:33 <dsample> I've got an issue with my N800.  I haven't used it in about a week, the battery ran out, and having plugged it in for almost the whole afternoon it still doesn't respond to the power button being pressed
Nov 22 23:03:25 <dsample> if I plug the power in it lights up showing the Nokia brandmark, then goes blank, lights up the blue d-pad light, then lights up the screen again with the brandmark, then goes blank
Nov 22 23:03:41 <dsample> I can't see any battery icon on the screen though
Nov 22 23:04:01 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: the issue you were writing about on forum sometime?
Nov 22 23:04:21 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, about the NOLO bug? No.
Nov 22 23:04:25 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 22 23:05:03 <GeneralAntilles> yerga, I knew there was a link somewhere to that page. . . .
Nov 22 23:05:18 <qwerty12_N800> dsample, is the charger working? i went through 4/5 broken chargers which gave my n800 the same symptoms which you are experiencing now before finding a charger that works
Nov 22 23:05:50 <dsample> qwerty12_N800: well, it works with all my other devices
Nov 22 23:06:00 <konttori_> Stskeeps: you might want to remove the battery, put it back in and try to boot the device again
Nov 22 23:06:13 <Stskeeps> konttori_: dsample is the one who has the issue :)
Nov 22 23:06:25 * Stskeeps 's tablet is standing proud and working currently
Nov 22 23:06:26 <konttori_> ah. oh.
Nov 22 23:06:47 <qwerty12_N800> dsample, nokia phones? does it take a few minutes for the phone to realise the charger is in?
Nov 22 23:06:52 <dsample> konttori_: I've tried that, tried for about 10 seconds, do I need to leave it off for longer?
Nov 22 23:07:09 <konttori_> Nope
Nov 22 23:07:10 <dsample> qwerty12_N800: yes, Nokia phones, works straight away
Nov 22 23:07:19 <konttori_> You might want to try to reflash then
Nov 22 23:07:29 <Stskeeps> dsample: sometimes popping battery, putting it in, clicking power and -then- charger helps with me
Nov 22 23:07:29 <konttori_> sounds like something is horribly wong
Nov 22 23:07:44 <Stskeeps> (i managed to get a little too low on battery) :P
Nov 22 23:08:10 <konttori_> hmm... my blog isn't aggregated to planet maemo. odd.
Nov 22 23:08:21 <konttori_> otoh, it was published only moments ago
Nov 22 23:08:28 <konttori_> so, perhaps there's just a delay
Nov 22 23:08:30 <dsample> Stskeeps: what, my N800's joined the masons and now has a funny handshake to get it on? :P
Nov 22 23:08:46 <GeneralAntilles> konttori_, it is, it just takes a while to update: http://maemo.org/news//planet-maemo/category/feed:a92c474e7b83a19eb5ea3d097fbe66bc/
Nov 22 23:08:54 <Stskeeps> dsample: sentience, maybe
Nov 22 23:09:05 <GeneralAntilles> I think it updates once an hour.
Nov 22 23:11:10 <GeneralAntilles> I wonder if the mailing lists can do short-term bans.
Nov 22 23:13:49 <Myrtti> there seems to be an old thread on the ITT about power problems with N800 after the battery has been fully drained.
Nov 22 23:14:27 <Proteous> yeah, once the battery is dead it won't turn on
Nov 22 23:14:31 <Proteous> time to buy a charger
Nov 22 23:14:58 <Myrtti> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2673
Nov 22 23:16:04 <GeneralAntilles> Myrtti, that's not related.
Nov 22 23:16:12 <Myrtti> *shrug*
Nov 22 23:16:15 <GeneralAntilles> You wont see _any_ activity until it actually boots.
Nov 22 23:16:15 <Myrtti> oh well...
Nov 22 23:16:19 <Myrtti> true
Nov 22 23:16:26 <GeneralAntilles> That was a NOLO timing issue with certain OMAP builds.
Nov 22 23:16:31 <Myrtti> time for getting glögi
Nov 22 23:16:33 <GeneralAntilles> This sounds like funky hardware
Nov 22 23:16:44 * Myrtti gives a mug for GeneralAntilles 
Nov 22 23:17:16 <dsample> hmmm, although my chargers work with my phones, I got the one out of the N800 box and that's managed to start charging it
Nov 22 23:17:28 <GeneralAntilles> I'm actually old enough to drink legally, too. Woo! <_<
Nov 22 23:17:40 <qwerty12_N800> GeneralAntilles, 21?
Nov 22 23:17:48 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N800, yeah, last month.
Nov 22 23:17:48 <Myrtti> GeneralAntilles: mine is non-alcoholic
Nov 22 23:17:54 <GeneralAntilles> Still creeps me right the hell out.
Nov 22 23:17:59 <GeneralAntilles> Myrtti, even better!
Nov 22 23:18:02 <qwerty12_N800> GeneralAntilles, cool. 18 over here. BRAPP
Nov 22 23:18:03 <Myrtti> GeneralAntilles: ... I feel old.
Nov 22 23:18:03 * GeneralAntilles doesn't really drink. :P
Nov 22 23:18:31 <Myrtti> *bweee* *bweee* Miia is having her age crisis again, stay back
Nov 22 23:20:41 <Myrtti> "when I was young, we had beige Ericsson dial phones with the dial ring"
Nov 22 23:21:27 <Myrtti> "none of these modern day gadgets"
Nov 22 23:22:11 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: drinking age all the time here, just limited when you can buy (16), and get served (18) :P
Nov 22 23:23:12 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, haha, lol, like with cigarettes here, you can smoke under 18 legally, just can't buy them
Nov 22 23:30:16 <soap> where is that?
Nov 22 23:30:23 <Stskeeps> .dk
Nov 22 23:31:00 <soap> no kidding?  Such a silly law.  ;)
Nov 22 23:31:32 <soap> no - I meant the cigs thing - UK huh?
Nov 22 23:31:36 <soap> silly silly silly.
Nov 22 23:31:51 <qwerty12_N800> yeah, the UK :\
Nov 22 23:32:45 <GeneralAntilles> Sounds like some gun laws here.
Nov 22 23:33:04 <GeneralAntilles> You can buy a handgun at 18, but you can't buy ammo for a handgun until you're 21
Nov 22 23:33:32 <GeneralAntilles> Unless, of course, you're using that handgun ammo in one of the many rifles that use it, then you're OK. ;)
Nov 22 23:35:40 * Myrtti stays silent about the Finnish gun laws
Nov 22 23:36:19 * dsample can't remember the terminal command for checking the real value of the battery charge
Nov 22 23:36:38 <GeneralAntilles> dsample, technically, there isn't one.
Nov 22 23:36:42 <GeneralAntilles> At least not by default
Nov 22 23:36:46 <Stskeeps> lshal may give some info
Nov 22 23:36:57 * Proteous thinks the term "real value" when refering to battery charge is a lie
Nov 22 23:36:58 <Stskeeps> and then there's always ftd or something
Nov 22 23:37:03 <dsample> hmmm, a friend told me something like dbus...
Nov 22 23:37:12 <dsample> gave a number upto 15000
Nov 22 23:37:37 <GeneralAntilles> Proteous, well, there's another 30% available or so at "0%".
Nov 22 23:37:51 <GeneralAntilles> dsample, try this, though: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24905
Nov 22 23:38:56 <qwerty12_N800> dsample, an ugly way, lshal -u /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/bme
Nov 22 23:44:40 <dsample> hmmm, there was definitely a shell command (without installing stuff) that watched for events on the UI, you set it going, then tap the battery and it printed a load of info about the battery
Nov 22 23:44:46 <dsample> I'm sure it was dbus something
Nov 22 23:48:13 <dsample> found it... dbus-monitor --system
Nov 22 23:48:21 <dsample> then once that's running tap the battery
Nov 22 23:48:35 <Stskeeps> "tap"? :P
Nov 22 23:48:54 <Stskeeps> i think it's usually easier to lshal and look at the battery values, it goes up to 15000 one of the :P
Nov 22 23:49:00 <Stskeeps> lshal | grep battery
Nov 22 23:57:12 <dsample> Stskeeps: too much output
Nov 23 00:01:49 <Stskeeps>  |grep battery.remaining_time i believe
Nov 23 00:02:04 <Stskeeps> or battery.reporting.current
Nov 23 00:02:14 <Stskeeps> top is 1555 there
Nov 23 02:13:41 <z4chh> hey guys, i was wondering if brand really matters for 16gb sdhc for my n800...for example http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=16gb+SDHC&x=0&y=0 ...what exactly should I buy? my instict is of course cheapest prices with class 6 speed
Nov 23 02:14:52 <soap> not in my humble opinion.  A class 6 is a class 6
Nov 23 02:15:30 <z4chh> so buy that 25$ a-data?
Nov 23 02:15:55 <z4chh> you'd*
Nov 23 02:16:19 <soap> is it a class 6?
Nov 23 02:16:49 <soap> don't look at the photo - those are wrong sometimes, look at the specs.
Nov 23 02:17:59 <soap> and I don't see the spec in writing - I'd ask customer service.
Nov 23 02:18:15 <z4chh> o_o
Nov 23 02:18:17 <z4chh> yeah hah
Nov 23 02:18:29 <z4chh> i don't see anything abou it..that is bananas
Nov 23 02:21:33 <z4chh> bloody, bloody bonkers that is :\
Nov 23 02:25:52 <soap> I only mention it because I saw another card today where the photo claimed 10MB/S write and numerous comments said that is not what they got.
Nov 23 02:26:21 <soap> and they said the response by newegg was "the photo is provided by the manufacturer, the specs are gospel."
Nov 23 02:28:16 <z4chh> thanks soap
Nov 23 02:29:19 <z4chh> ill remember what you said by this "check the soap before you wash" :D
Nov 23 02:50:50 <soap> You in Bowling Green?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 23 02:59:57 2008