**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 28 02:59:57 2008
Nov 28 03:13:10 <poppabear> how do you guys feel about Palm Powered devices ?
Nov 28 03:13:25 <johnx> I really like them for PIM
Nov 28 03:13:30 <johnx> awful for web browsing
Nov 28 03:13:55 <johnx> and the OS is pretty old and creaky. Ask anyone how fun it is to program for :)
Nov 28 03:15:27 <johnx> for a phone, might actually be pretty nice
Nov 28 03:17:25 <Macer> ahhhhhh... good sex :)
Nov 28 03:17:33 * Macer goes to take a shower.. smoke a cigarette.. eat some food... and sleep
Nov 28 03:17:39 <Macer> talk about a perfect day
Nov 28 03:17:41 <poppabear> was thinking something like this http://www.buy.com/prod/hp-ipaq-211-enterprise-handheld-marvell-pxa310-624mhz-128mb-256mb-rom/q/loc/101/205835522.html
Nov 28 03:18:22 <johnx> Macer, pretty funny how you've been on IRC the whole time ...
Nov 28 03:19:06 <johnx> poppabear, you won't find many people here who have something nice to say about winmo :)
Nov 28 03:19:42 <poppabear> really ... :P
Nov 28 03:26:41 <ShadowJK> I bet it's less frustrating to develop for than symbian
Nov 28 03:37:45 <poppabear> night guys
Nov 28 03:48:18 <Ro9u3oR> hey, i installed usbcontrol to my n800 and cant locate the program  now on the device
Nov 28 03:48:32 <johnx> it's in the extras menu :)
Nov 28 03:49:03 <Ro9u3oR> not there, could it be a bad install
Nov 28 03:49:47 <johnx> does it show up as installed in application manager
Nov 28 03:49:52 <johnx> ?
Nov 28 03:50:01 <Ro9u3oR> no
Nov 28 03:50:12 <johnx> how did you install it?
Nov 28 03:50:49 <Ro9u3oR> downloaded it from maemo org onto my sd
Nov 28 03:51:05 <johnx> then you installed it with application manager?
Nov 28 03:53:00 <Ro9u3oR> yes
Nov 28 03:53:08 <johnx> and the install went fine?
Nov 28 03:53:30 <Ro9u3oR> i thought so
Nov 28 03:55:45 <johnx> try installing directly from application manager. go to available applications and just select usbcontrol from that list
Nov 28 03:56:48 <Ro9u3oR> when i went thru app installl there werent to many apps
Nov 28 03:57:15 <johnx> add this first:
Nov 28 03:57:17 <johnx> ~extras
Nov 28 03:57:19 <infobot> i guess extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras
Nov 28 03:57:26 <johnx> just add extras for now, not extras-devel
Nov 28 03:57:40 <Ro9u3oR> just extras
Nov 28 03:57:57 <johnx> right
Nov 28 03:58:18 <johnx> so basically just open that page in the browser on your tablet and click on the link on that page :)
Nov 28 03:58:45 <Ro9u3oR> ill give it a shot
Nov 28 04:45:21 <Ro9u3oR> whats the link o download extras for n800 os2008
Nov 28 05:15:00 <johnx> ~extras
Nov 28 05:15:03 <infobot> [extras] http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras
Nov 28 05:15:06 <johnx> ah, nm
Nov 28 06:12:35 <kulve> app.mgr has an option called "Ignore packages from wrong domain". What's a "wrong domain"?
Nov 28 06:13:45 <AStorm> hello
Nov 28 06:14:04 <AStorm> any idea how to nicely chain immc with the / flash?
Nov 28 06:14:28 <AStorm> because installing system on a card with n810 is a no-no
Nov 28 06:14:42 <AStorm> I could install on immc though...
Nov 28 06:15:05 <AStorm> just ran out of space
Nov 28 06:15:25 <AStorm> trying to install fennec... too many apps I guess, esp. qt4
Nov 28 06:17:11 <kulve> copy the whole maemo rootfs to mmc?
Nov 28 06:17:35 <kulve> or why is it a "no-no"?
Nov 28 06:18:04 <AStorm> immc is ok
Nov 28 06:18:08 <AStorm> emmc is not
Nov 28 06:18:23 * Stskeeps yawns
Nov 28 06:18:28 <kulve> with "e" you mean external?
Nov 28 06:18:33 <AStorm> though immc can't use jffs2
Nov 28 06:18:33 <kulve> why isn't it ok?
Nov 28 06:18:35 <AStorm> yes
Nov 28 06:18:44 <AStorm> because I like to swap cards
Nov 28 06:18:52 <kulve> oh, that's a good reason :)
Nov 28 06:19:05 <kulve> I though you meant there's some technical issue..
Nov 28 06:19:15 <AStorm> nah
Nov 28 06:19:35 <AStorm> so, the trick is that compression gives a lot on mmc
Nov 28 06:19:43 <AStorm> and I have no compressed fs on radar
Nov 28 06:20:06 <AStorm> (see, it's only 5 Mbit)
Nov 28 06:20:16 <johnx> "wrong domain" is probably referring to upgrades the come from a different repo than the original package
Nov 28 06:21:03 <kulve> johnx: I uploaded the package to the extras-devel and I'm now trying to install it from there. Before that I removed the old version from command line with dpkg..
Nov 28 06:21:33 <johnx> I really don't know
Nov 28 06:21:36 <johnx> app mgr is ... special
Nov 28 06:21:40 <kulve> yeah..
Nov 28 06:21:58 <kulve> with apt-get it would get installed just fine. And the "Section" is user/multimedia
Nov 28 06:26:13 <lopz> nigth
Nov 28 06:26:51 <AStorm> hmm, nobody can recommend a nice compressed fs for mmc?
Nov 28 06:27:09 <AStorm> (for uncompressed, I can just grab btrfs)
Nov 28 06:29:19 <Stskeeps> morn johnx
Nov 28 06:29:34 <AStorm> reiser4 is out (is buggy, loses files, etc)
Nov 28 06:30:03 <Stskeeps> like its author
Nov 28 06:30:45 <johnx> hey Stskeeps :)
Nov 28 06:30:56 <AStorm> Hans is out? guess i'm old news
Nov 28 06:31:30 <Stskeeps> true, not out:P
Nov 28 06:31:54 <Stskeeps> johnx: saw the mer blueprint appendixes?
Nov 28 06:35:57 <Stskeeps> johnx: also quims post was a  lot more interesting - alpha sdk for platform developers
Nov 28 06:36:11 <Stskeeps> not power/general users
Nov 28 06:36:32 <Stskeeps> and 100% oss
Nov 28 06:37:19 <johnx> yeah, but I'm more worried about n8x0 / armv5 / anything without 3d compatibility now
Nov 28 06:37:40 <Stskeeps> yeah obviously
Nov 28 06:38:20 <Stskeeps> but then again there were religious 770 users on the inside (HE)
Nov 28 06:39:52 <johnx> I guess I pinned too many of my hopes on maemo :/
Nov 28 06:41:26 <Stskeeps> next clutter theory - wm, they were dubious about full screen switches
Nov 28 06:41:53 <AStorm> well
Nov 28 06:42:07 <AStorm> indeed, ui is cluttered
Nov 28 06:42:16 <AStorm> wasteful
Nov 28 06:42:42 <AStorm> instead, give us a main menu button
Nov 28 06:42:43 <AStorm> :>
Nov 28 06:42:50 <Stskeeps> ponder if zoomable ui is integrated..
Nov 28 06:50:46 <AStorm> also, 960x560 screen would be nice and should fit in current form factor
Nov 28 06:51:20 <AStorm> though then I dont know how where they would place the camera (which is fairly useless now)
Nov 28 06:52:23 <AStorm> maybe foldable one
Nov 28 06:52:52 <AStorm> I'm sure such a fine company would solve this problem
Nov 28 06:52:54 <AStorm> :P
Nov 28 06:54:00 <hahlobit> any information who and when they hire that debmaster?
Nov 28 06:54:15 <AStorm> :)
Nov 28 07:11:40 <joyious> Hi, how can i access the other frame buffer plane? such as /dev/fb1
Nov 28 07:13:46 <AStorm> there is one?
Nov 28 07:14:07 <AStorm> ah, you mean the otherö, internal TI fb?
Nov 28 07:14:17 <AStorm> it's not hooked up to display afaicr
Nov 28 07:17:47 <joyious> AStorm: So there is no overlay support ?
Nov 28 07:18:06 <AStorm> use xv?
Nov 28 07:18:13 <AStorm> no idea really
Nov 28 07:18:32 <AStorm> ask someone else, like johnx
Nov 28 07:18:42 <joyious> AStorm:I'm using directfb, not X
Nov 28 07:19:06 <AStorm> directfb has its own overlaying and compositing...
Nov 28 07:19:33 <AStorm> so why do you even try to access other fb device
Nov 28 07:19:38 <joyious> AStorm:But there is no omap overlay driver there
Nov 28 07:19:55 <AStorm> hm
Nov 28 07:20:15 <AStorm> I think omapfb mplayer driver code might be enlightening
Nov 28 07:20:17 <joyious> AStorm: actually I just want to play some video and draw some UI on top of it
Nov 28 07:20:49 <joyious> AStorm: this is what johnx suggest me to check
Nov 28 07:20:51 <AStorm> not sure if that is possible in hardware
Nov 28 07:21:11 <AStorm> the driver does support partial updates I think
Nov 28 07:21:52 <AStorm> another thing is to check kernel fb driver for what it supports
Nov 28 07:21:56 <joyious> AStorm: it does support partial update in one plane
Nov 28 07:22:15 <AStorm> which is enough to do overlaying in software :)
Nov 28 07:22:46 <joyious> AStorm: But i need 2 plane, video is YUV and UI is RGB
Nov 28 07:23:04 <AStorm> ah right
Nov 28 07:23:10 <AStorm> you'd have to convert
Nov 28 07:23:35 <AStorm> hmm
Nov 28 07:23:44 <joyious> AStorm: And also I wonder if there is some blending
Nov 28 07:23:50 <AStorm> no idea if multiple planes are supportes
Nov 28 07:24:13 <AStorm> I haven't seen any blending support in the driver... but I might have missed it
Nov 28 07:24:45 <joyious> AStorm: I searched on the internet, someone are discuss this here
Nov 28 07:25:16 <AStorm> hm
Nov 28 07:25:22 <joyious> AStorm:it says the n810 got 3 planes, but I got no way to use it
Nov 28 07:25:47 <AStorm> directly, yes
Nov 28 07:25:58 <AStorm> because stupid epson chip buffer is weird
Nov 28 07:26:05 <AStorm> :)
Nov 28 07:26:49 <joyious> AStorm: I know nothing about the epson chip
Nov 28 07:26:58 <AStorm> might be possible using DMA or some other hack
Nov 28 07:27:18 <AStorm> the fb driver doesn't support that, but mplayer omapfb might
Nov 28 07:28:17 <joyious> AStorm:I check the mplayer source, it just use /dev/fb0 and partially update the screen
Nov 28 07:28:21 <AStorm> at worst, just convert in software using dsp
Nov 28 07:28:28 <AStorm> mhm
Nov 28 07:28:41 <AStorm> yes, mplayer doesn't have to overlay
Nov 28 07:28:47 <AStorm> it mixes in software
Nov 28 07:29:20 <AStorm> though DSP->fb transfer is tricky
Nov 28 07:29:24 <joyious> but mplayer do have some OSD menus there
Nov 28 07:29:33 <joyious> I dont know how they do it
Nov 28 07:29:45 <AStorm> in software
Nov 28 07:30:06 <AStorm> they output correct rgb, yuv, whatnot
Nov 28 07:31:28 <AStorm> for simple menu, it works well enough
Nov 28 07:32:20 <joyious> and also some transpaency between those
Nov 28 07:33:43 <AStorm> yes
Nov 28 07:33:51 <AStorm> simple mixing
Nov 28 07:34:12 <AStorm> it does use the dsp for some of this (esp. yuv<->rgb conversion)
Nov 28 07:35:06 <joyious> I check the vo code, it use omapfb and just put yuv data to fb
Nov 28 07:35:24 <AStorm> yes
Nov 28 07:35:36 <AStorm> check other parts of mplayer code
Nov 28 07:35:46 <AStorm> for conversion assembler
Nov 28 07:35:49 <joyious> so you mean before the vo, it already mix the menu with videos?
Nov 28 07:36:16 <joyious> that conversion is just from YV12 to omap's YUV420
Nov 28 07:39:11 <AStorm> :)
Nov 28 07:39:34 <AStorm> so you have to write one for rgb to yuv420
Nov 28 07:39:56 <joyious> why ?
Nov 28 07:40:12 <AStorm> ... see, no overlay for you
Nov 28 07:40:22 <AStorm> unless you figure out how to do it
Nov 28 07:40:42 <AStorm> then I'd be grateful if you write a good doc
Nov 28 07:41:30 <joyious> actually now I can update the whole screen with YUV420 data and then partial with RGB data for UI
Nov 28 07:45:40 <AStorm> that won't work
Nov 28 07:45:51 <AStorm> unless you convert rgb to yuv420
Nov 28 07:46:02 <joyious> but they are accessing the same framebuffer, so some side effect
Nov 28 07:46:46 <joyious> It works, just to tell the device what format is the update window
Nov 28 07:49:34 <AStorm> really it does?
Nov 28 07:49:53 <AStorm> still, unless you're updating rectangles only, opaque
Nov 28 07:50:05 <AStorm> you will have to convert some parts
Nov 28 07:50:36 <joyious> the problem is UI and video output are updating the screen seperately
Nov 28 07:51:06 <Macer> hm
Nov 28 07:52:07 <joyious> Yes, just some rectangle
Nov 28 07:52:44 <joyious> opaque
Nov 28 07:52:51 <Macer> johnx - were you watching the txt video stream or something? :)
Nov 28 07:52:57 <Macer> just because i am on irc doesn't mean i'm on irc
Nov 28 07:53:40 <AStorm> Macer: /away is your friend
Nov 28 07:53:41 <AStorm> :)
Nov 28 08:23:54 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 28 08:26:23 <Macer> heh
Nov 28 08:26:26 <Macer> samurai girl is hot
Nov 28 08:26:34 <Stskeeps> morn Macer, Jaffa
Nov 28 08:27:22 <Macer> hi
Nov 28 08:27:53 <Macer> i'm watching samurai girl
Nov 28 08:27:57 <Macer> it's come to this
Nov 28 08:35:33 <Macer> whattodo whattodo
Nov 28 08:38:36 <Macer> hm
Nov 28 08:40:37 <X-Fade> Morning..
Nov 28 08:41:40 <X-Fade> Let's see if GA awakes from his turkey induced coma ;)
Nov 28 08:46:38 <johnx> another several hours yet I think :)
Nov 28 08:46:59 <Stskeeps> johnx: sapwood change log had a notice about memory corruption btw
Nov 28 08:47:09 <Stskeeps> like, quite recently
Nov 28 08:47:54 <johnx> hmm
Nov 28 08:51:19 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: I especially like the FIXMEs in that code ;)
Nov 28 08:51:45 <Stskeeps> hehe, it's always comforting maemo isn't running nuclear facilities..
Nov 28 09:02:35 <X-Fade> Can somebody login on the wiki and see if they get a captcha after you hit save? (Should not be)
Nov 28 09:02:54 <X-Fade> You'd have to edit an article.
Nov 28 09:06:12 <aquatix> lcuk: sorry, am around now again
Nov 28 09:06:15 <aquatix> morning all btw :)
Nov 28 09:20:26 <RST38h> moo all
Nov 28 09:21:08 <aquatix> hey RST38h
Nov 28 09:21:34 <johnx> m00f RST38h :)
Nov 28 09:22:25 <RST38h> Anyone planning to track down Mara and torture the pretty n900 pictures out of him/her? =)
Nov 28 09:23:48 <X-Fade> RST38h: Book a flight to .fi ;)
Nov 28 09:24:19 <RST38h> X-Fade: Sending the evil minions!
Nov 28 09:26:25 <hahlobit> here is cold.
Nov 28 09:26:49 <hahlobit> better fly to .br
Nov 28 09:27:12 <johnx> 12C here. what about where other people are?
Nov 28 09:27:18 <RST38h> +3
Nov 28 09:27:25 <RST38h> Will be -3 before long
Nov 28 09:27:58 <X-Fade> 2.6C here (NL)
Nov 28 09:29:53 <hahlobit> 3c
Nov 28 09:30:29 <johnx> well, looks like I got the better end of the deal :) ... except that I do enjoy snow
Nov 28 09:33:48 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: check jaiku, there is wrong repo in maemo wiki
Nov 28 09:34:15 <Meiz_n810> is it is for armel :)
Nov 28 09:35:29 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: no, it is actually entirely correct - those are developer tools for i386
Nov 28 09:35:39 <Stskeeps> for installation on a linux PC
Nov 28 09:35:44 <Stskeeps> jaunty-i36
Nov 28 09:35:45 <Stskeeps> i386
Nov 28 09:36:09 <Stskeeps> for testing if your package compiles first :)
Nov 28 09:44:45 <RST38h> johnx: yours is probably more humid though
Nov 28 09:45:31 <johnx> well yeah, but not right now
Nov 28 09:45:50 <johnx> it's pretty awful in the summer though
Nov 28 09:46:31 <aquatix> X-Fade: meh, it's 3.7C here :(
Nov 28 09:46:47 <aquatix> but it seems it's getting lower
Nov 28 09:46:56 <X-Fade> aquatix: Cold south here ;)
Nov 28 09:47:13 <aquatix> ah :)
Nov 28 09:47:26 * aquatix lives near the Northsea, so that doesn't help getting it cold here
Nov 28 09:47:35 <X-Fade> I don't mind the cold, but I hate these fully grey skies.
Nov 28 09:47:56 <aquatix> true
Nov 28 09:47:57 <X-Fade> Cold + blue sky + sun is a lot more friendly to the eye :)
Nov 28 09:48:06 * aquatix loves a freezing day with blue sky and sun
Nov 28 09:48:07 <aquatix> indeed
Nov 28 09:48:10 <johnx> I used to live in Seattle. It was like that from the beginning of fall into late spring
Nov 28 09:48:19 <aquatix> maybe add in some snow here and there
Nov 28 09:48:22 <johnx> (overcast I mean)
Nov 28 09:48:48 <X-Fade> johnx: Yeah, overcast sucks..
Nov 28 09:49:27 <aquatix> it's so damn gloomy
Nov 28 09:49:27 * RST38h got used to gray skies
Nov 28 09:49:27 <johnx> definitely
Nov 28 09:49:33 <aquatix> RST38h: :)
Nov 28 09:50:06 <RST38h> It is funny how all city photos are made in the night during November-March period though
Nov 28 09:50:12 <aquatix> X-Fade: http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=INOORDHO4 <- at this rate it will be freezing by evening :)
Nov 28 09:50:26 <X-Fade> Well at least it isn't dark until 10am and goes dark again at 3pm here ;)
Nov 28 09:50:27 <aquatix> RST38h: ah?
Nov 28 09:50:29 <johnx> RST38h, and all photos of Seattle are made in the Summer :)
Nov 28 09:50:58 <aquatix> X-Fade: well, it only is dark until 9am and goes dark at 4pm ;)
Nov 28 09:51:24 <X-Fade> aquatix: Yeah, like I said. At least ...
Nov 28 09:51:35 <RST38h> aquatix: During the night, this place is illuminated and looks pretty much like klingon capital
Nov 28 09:51:43 <aquatix> hm, shall i turn up the heat a bit or shall i run some demanding app on my pc...
Nov 28 09:51:47 <aquatix> X-Fade: :)
Nov 28 09:51:49 <RST38h> aquatix: During the day it is uniform gray though
Nov 28 09:51:57 <aquatix> RST38h: heh :)
Nov 28 09:52:08 <aquatix> RST38h: yeah, that 360-view was yours right?
Nov 28 09:52:15 <Stskeeps> aquatix: my office is entirely heated by the 2 servers, atom board, tv and screens, and a beagleboard
Nov 28 09:52:19 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 28 09:52:22 <RST38h> aquatix: Nope, somebody else made it
Nov 28 09:52:23 <aquatix> :)
Nov 28 09:52:35 <aquatix> RST38h: fair enough, but at least your city :)
Nov 28 09:52:49 <aquatix> Stskeeps: i'm glad i don't have servers in this room
Nov 28 09:53:01 <aquatix> only me, my workstation and my huge-ish tft
Nov 28 09:53:06 <RST38h> aquatix: more stuff here: http://www.ivan.ru/ (do check the archive)
Nov 28 09:53:15 * aquatix clicks
Nov 28 09:53:31 <aquatix> ooh, nice
Nov 28 09:54:05 <aquatix> http://www.ivan.ru/uploads/2008/08/moscow04.jpg <- whoa
Nov 28 09:54:16 <aquatix> that's almost spooky
Nov 28 09:54:43 <X-Fade> Very cool photo.
Nov 28 09:55:06 <RST38h> That is postprocessing
Nov 28 09:55:08 <aquatix> RST38h: is that tower on the background the wannabe highest of europe? http://www.ivan.ru/uploads/2008/08/moscow05.jpg
Nov 28 09:55:43 <RST38h> aquatix: Nope. The highest one has not been started yet and they seem to have suspended the plans
Nov 28 09:55:52 <aquatix> yeah, read about that
Nov 28 09:55:57 <RST38h> this one is still pretty high though
Nov 28 09:55:58 <aquatix> thought they already where building it
Nov 28 09:56:08 <aquatix> heh, yeah, that's why i asked
Nov 28 09:56:11 <RST38h> yes, the base is there
Nov 28 10:29:49 <chrisak-> When setting up cell phone operator, if selected country shows no service providers does that mean i'm outta luck?
Nov 28 10:31:21 <RST38h> no it just means you will have to configure manually
Nov 28 10:33:33 <hahlobit> no i don't think so. my operator didn't show either.
Nov 28 10:36:17 <hahlobit> you can set them by hand if you know access points and such.
Nov 28 10:38:55 <chrisak-> ok thanks :) i'll keep at it then. Thailand and Cambodia both had lists of local mobile providers but Vietnam lists none
Nov 28 10:50:16 <lardman> morning
Nov 28 10:50:36 <mmm_bacon> om nom nom
Nov 28 10:50:52 <mmm_bacon> hiya simon
Nov 28 10:50:57 <lardman> hi Gary :D
Nov 28 10:51:22 <Gary> :'(  hilights ftl
Nov 28 10:51:33 <RST38h> moo, lardman
Nov 28 10:51:48 <lardman> Gary: sorry!
Nov 28 10:52:02 * mmm_bacon feels like crap, if anyone wants me ill probably answer later
Nov 28 10:53:25 <lardman> mmm_bacon: I don't need to want you ill, you already are ;)
Nov 28 10:54:03 <mmm_bacon> bleugh, this is very interesting by the way: movial omap3 in tablet form factor http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=O7oTlmlfV20&feature=related
Nov 28 10:55:36 <mmm_bacon> lardman i can barely focus on anything :( i left windows closed all night and heating on
Nov 28 10:56:37 <GAN800> X-Fade, right about now. ;)
Nov 28 10:57:02 <lardman> mmm_bacon: carbon monoxide poisioning?
Nov 28 10:57:15 <lardman> s/poisioning/poisoning
Nov 28 10:57:17 <mmm_bacon> more like methane
Nov 28 10:57:20 <X-Fade> GAN800: No too bad ;)
Nov 28 10:57:26 <lardman> beans too hey?
Nov 28 10:57:41 * mmm_bacon blames the cheese n bean jacket potato
Nov 28 10:57:49 <GAN800> I hit the bed so hard after we got home last night. <_<
Nov 28 10:59:11 <lardman> GAN800: where were you out too?
Nov 28 10:59:27 <GAN800> Friends place for Thanksgiving
Nov 28 10:59:40 <GAN800> 26lbs turkey
Nov 28 10:59:42 <lardman> ah, turkey population halved? ;)
Nov 28 10:59:56 <lardman> bloody hell, what were they feeding it?
Nov 28 10:59:58 * GAN800 sees the stupid Fremantle thread exploded.
Nov 28 11:00:00 <lardman> lead shot?
Nov 28 11:00:08 <GAN800> Hormones, clearly.
Nov 28 11:01:38 <aquatix> those damn geeks
Nov 28 11:02:44 <mmm_bacon> lardman, have you seen that video ^^
Nov 28 11:03:21 <X-Fade> mmm_bacon: The part where they scroll is pretty bad.
Nov 28 11:03:38 <mmm_bacon> it made me smile :)
Nov 28 11:03:41 <lardman> yeah
Nov 28 11:03:52 <GAN800> I really hope these assholes don't totally screw up the bugzilla process.
Nov 28 11:04:04 * lardman has no sound on work pc
Nov 28 11:04:23 * lardman wonders how the n810 will handle all new widescreen YouTube
Nov 28 11:04:23 <mmm_bacon> you dont need sound to see the smooth scrolling effects
Nov 28 11:04:38 * mmm_bacon wonders whats wrong with it
Nov 28 11:05:13 <mmm_bacon> anyway, back to bed for me
Nov 28 11:06:21 * GAN800 sighs.
Nov 28 11:06:37 <Stskeeps> morning GAN800
Nov 28 11:06:39 <Stskeeps> good turkey?
Nov 28 11:06:51 <GAN800> Yeah, it was all excellent
Nov 28 11:07:11 <lardman> http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/470460
Nov 28 11:07:15 <GAN800> Had a slice of keylime and a slice of pumpkin for dessert.
Nov 28 11:22:49 <Jaffa> lardman: shiny!
Nov 28 11:32:37 <lardman> Jaffa: I think it's actually faster playing through flash than it was on the original machines :)
Nov 28 11:32:51 <lardman> which is not to compliment flash in any way of course!
Nov 28 11:32:57 <GAN800> lol newgrounds
Nov 28 11:33:31 * GAN800 played that regularly in middle school.
Nov 28 11:33:57 * qwerty12 is more of a miniclip fan
Nov 28 11:35:45 <lardman> Worms or bomberman, man needs nothing else
Nov 28 11:36:10 <lardman> though now that fps do coop mode, I'm tempted to resurrect afternoon gaming in the office ;)
Nov 28 11:36:58 <GAN800> I've hardly played a recent FPS not in coop
Nov 28 11:37:20 <GAN800> This is what we should have. http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/28/nokia-quake-iii-gains-on-phone-server-bluetooth-keyboard-and-mo/ :((
Nov 28 11:37:21 <lardman> We used to play a few years back, when Doom3 first came out - not much had coop mode then
Nov 28 11:38:10 <lardman> yeah, we'll have to find out about driver support or not
Nov 28 11:38:26 <qwerty12> Oh god, now I want a E90 soo badly
Nov 28 11:38:45 <GAN800> You should want drivers more. :P
Nov 28 11:38:49 <lardman> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens_(Gearbox_Software) looks promising for late evening coop play (in deserted uni, with headsets to talk as we're all in different offices)
Nov 28 11:39:11 <qwerty12> GAN800, Call me a pessimist but I've come to the conclusion that we won't be seeing drivers anytime soon :)
Nov 28 11:40:05 <GAN800> Maybe the dreams of an innocent (ha!) child will bring them for us. :P
Nov 28 11:40:16 <qwerty12> :P
Nov 28 11:40:59 <GAN800> How did 'Freemantle' become such a popular misspelling? :/
Nov 28 11:41:14 <Stskeeps> free willy?
Nov 28 11:41:20 <Jaffa> Cos people are thick, like, innit
Nov 28 11:41:51 <qwerty12> Since people like to rant without knowing the background behind a decision :/
Nov 28 11:42:23 <qwerty12> Jaffa, Ooh, nearly passed as a Vicky Pollard
Nov 28 11:43:45 <lardman> easy mis-type though, I automatically type two ees
Nov 28 11:43:53 <GAN800> widescreen YouTube aint so good fir
Nov 28 11:43:58 <GAN800> the tablets.
Nov 28 11:44:01 <dystopia> why won't we get the linux security patches
Nov 28 11:44:32 <Stskeeps> you want to lock down your tablet like fort knox? :P
Nov 28 11:45:32 <dystopia> like Fristaden Christiania ;-)
Nov 28 11:46:53 <GAN800> Feel free to help out with the stlc45xx
Nov 28 11:47:37 <dystopia> or backport hmm
Nov 28 11:47:45 <guardian> hi
Nov 28 11:47:47 <guardian> is there a known release date for the N900 ?
Nov 28 11:47:48 <Stskeeps> dystopia: .. that's about how open tablet is already
Nov 28 11:47:58 <lardman> guardian: no
Nov 28 11:48:04 <guardian> ok
Nov 28 11:48:11 <GAN800> Best guess is Summer 2009
Nov 28 11:48:28 <guardian> ok it's in a while then
Nov 28 11:48:44 <lardman> From the comments on ITT there are prototypes around though, i wonder if people have been checking the browser id strings lately....?
Nov 28 11:49:11 <GAN800> Hehe, I doubt they're at that point quite yet
Nov 28 11:49:39 <GAN800> Bug Reggie about it. ;)
Nov 28 11:49:41 <Stskeeps> GAN800: saw Mara's comment? :P
Nov 28 11:49:47 <lardman> I don't know, my original impression was that they were fairly well advanced
Nov 28 11:50:06 <lardman> or X-Fade ;)
Nov 28 11:50:18 <GAN800> Stskeeps, er, about them browsing with them not about there being prototypes.
Nov 28 11:50:27 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 28 11:52:11 * lardman wonders why Outlook is so crap
Nov 28 11:52:33 <GAN800> It's MS duh
Nov 28 11:54:10 <GAN800> Showed the tablet to an iPod guy last night. He about died when I started playing When We Left Earth from the DVR at home with the HAVA.
Nov 28 11:54:27 <qwerty12> Lol
Nov 28 11:55:48 <lardman> GAN800: so true
Nov 28 11:57:38 <GAN800> It's interesting to see what hits home with different people
Nov 28 11:57:57 <GAN800> Some really dig media playback, others love the browser
Nov 28 11:58:09 <lardman> how?
Nov 28 11:58:20 <Stskeeps> "There's nothing conceptually different between my laptop running Debian and my N800 running, for all practical purposes, a Debian derivative. "
Nov 28 11:58:24 <Stskeeps> that's so wrong..
Nov 28 11:58:34 <Stskeeps> there's tonnes of differences in how you deal with a ultramobile syste
Nov 28 11:58:34 <Stskeeps> m
Nov 28 11:58:35 <lardman> not that I can comment as I've not submitted patches, but the browser really is too slow still
Nov 28 11:58:59 <GAN800> You show one person liqbase and they're totally non-reactive, but the next will frek
Nov 28 11:59:04 <GAN800> s/frek/freak/
Nov 28 11:59:05 <infobot> GAN800 meant: You show one person liqbase and they're totally non-reactive, but the next will freak
Nov 28 11:59:40 <GAN800> lardman, but compared to a crap cellphone browser or Palm?
Nov 28 12:00:01 <GAN800> Stskeeps, please feel free to correct them. :P
Nov 28 12:00:11 <lardman> GAN800: yeah no idea, I use neither
Nov 28 12:00:42 <GAN800> lardman, really, honestly, the tablets offer some of the best mobile browsing around.
Nov 28 12:00:56 <GAN800> You'd be amazed at what some people are using.
Nov 28 12:01:04 <lardman> I'd still prefer to wait and boot my pc
Nov 28 12:01:22 <lardman> or use my gf's ipod touch
Nov 28 12:01:30 <GAN800> It's not laptop fast, but it's damn better than almost anything else in the class.
Nov 28 12:01:52 <GAN800> But, again, it's interesting to see what people react to.
Nov 28 12:02:04 <lardman> I agree, with you, it;s just that it needs to be sufficiently fast to not make me boot the pc in preference
Nov 28 12:02:16 <GAN800> iPod Touch over N810? urgh
Nov 28 12:02:17 <Stskeeps> GAN800: i will, when i'm done with work :P
Nov 28 12:02:23 <lardman> it's not even the speed for me, it's the bloody lock-ups and random scrolling behaviour
Nov 28 12:02:31 <GAN800> Why would you even turn off your computer?
Nov 28 12:02:34 <lardman> speed-wise it's fine
Nov 28 12:02:39 <Stskeeps> GAN800: making a Mer image for a intel atom board :P
Nov 28 12:02:41 <GAN800> turb
Nov 28 12:02:47 <lardman> GAN800: expensive bills over here
Nov 28 12:02:51 <GAN800> turn off js and flash
Nov 28 12:02:56 <GAN800> it'll flj
Nov 28 12:03:04 <GAN800> s/flj/fly/
Nov 28 12:03:04 <infobot> GAN800 meant: it'll fly
Nov 28 12:03:14 <lardman> stuff like itt is still painful
Nov 28 12:03:22 <lardman> image loading is slow
Nov 28 12:03:27 <GAN800> lol, Modest and IM notifications messing up my thumb typing.
Nov 28 12:03:36 <GAN800> lardman, minimalist.
Nov 28 12:03:50 <lardman> yeah, there are ways
Nov 28 12:09:11 <lardman> hmm, shame the itt site doesn't automatically give us the low bandwidth version from the browser id
Nov 28 12:09:42 <qwerty12> lardman, if you haven't already done changed the theme, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/?styleid=10
Nov 28 12:09:45 <GAN800> lardman, give it time. :p
Nov 28 12:10:26 * Jaffa finds most browsing slightly too painful on an N810, unless I'm stuck, or doing something very specific.
Nov 28 12:11:43 <lardman> qwerty12: thanks
Nov 28 12:12:12 <lardman> Jaffa: yeah, it's ok if you've got something bookmarked to work in low-fi mode, but just general browsing is too clonky
Nov 28 12:20:37 <GAN800> Who'da thunk it'd take 3 days to fill 30,000 gallons from a hose. . . .
Nov 28 12:20:54 <Jaffa> Someone with a calculator who knew the water flow rate? ;-)
Nov 28 12:22:27 <GAN800> Say hello to the $500 water bill
Nov 28 12:23:51 <GAN800> Though, interestingly, you can get them to bill you the average of your last three instead if you get a letter from the pool company saying they had to fix a leak.
Nov 28 12:24:38 <aquatix> GAN800: ... you have a pool?
Nov 28 12:26:11 <GAN800> At my parents house. ;)
Nov 28 12:26:31 <GAN800> We just had our 50-year-old pool resurfaced.
Nov 28 12:26:38 <aquatix> ah cool
Nov 28 12:26:55 <johnx> so you got rid of the 50-year-old water as well?
Nov 28 12:27:06 <aquatix> meh, now i've just raised the specs of my next house to include a pool as well ;)
Nov 28 12:27:10 * aquatix dreams on
Nov 28 12:27:14 <GAN800> They can't resurface it wet. . . .
Nov 28 12:27:35 <aquatix> ha
Nov 28 12:29:44 <Speedy2> Hey all.  Does anyone here use the Access Palm Emulator on their n810?  I'm wondering about the performance.
Nov 28 12:31:42 <johnx> hi Speedy2. yeah I tried it a while back. it seems pretty fast
Nov 28 12:33:10 <Speedy2> johnx: Which device do you have, n810?
Nov 28 12:33:21 <johnx> n800
Nov 28 12:33:45 <Speedy2> Just curious, what apps did you try out?
Nov 28 12:34:05 <johnx> just the included ones, memo, datebook, etc
Nov 28 12:35:08 <Speedy2> Gotcha.
Nov 28 12:35:17 <Speedy2> Thanks :)
Nov 28 12:35:20 <johnx> for graphics heavy stuff it gets slower
Nov 28 12:35:32 <Speedy2> Hrm.  I had the crazy idea of running TomTom on it
Nov 28 12:35:52 <johnx> would be interesting, give it a shot :)
Nov 28 12:36:08 <Speedy2> I don't have any Nokia tablets :/
Nov 28 13:32:17 * Stskeeps yawns
Nov 28 13:45:14 * slonopotamus tried to order beagleboard, but got 'us export regulations' reject
Nov 28 13:45:37 <qwerty12> Ouch. That's fucked up :(
Nov 28 13:45:51 <slonopotamus> yep
Nov 28 13:45:59 <Stskeeps> wow, harsh :P
Nov 28 13:46:01 <Stskeeps> where are you?
Nov 28 13:46:11 <slonopotamus> russia
Nov 28 13:46:13 <Stskeeps> .. ah
Nov 28 13:46:23 <slonopotamus> what?
Nov 28 13:46:40 <qwerty12> You may use the beagleboards  to launch a planned missile strike on the US :D :P
Nov 28 13:46:48 <Meiz_n810> lol
Nov 28 13:46:49 <Stskeeps> i didn't know russia had us export regulations on eletronics :P
Nov 28 13:46:56 <Stskeeps> +c
Nov 28 13:47:06 <Stskeeps> but with the DSP you can make missiles.. :P
Nov 28 13:47:11 <slonopotamus> why it's ok for n8x0 but not for beagleboard?
Nov 28 13:47:22 <Stskeeps> that's a very good question
Nov 28 13:47:25 <slonopotamus> ah. nokia is in finland
Nov 28 13:47:30 <Stskeeps> one is exported from US, the other asia? :P
Nov 28 13:47:31 <slonopotamus> err
Nov 28 13:47:38 <Meiz_n810> My n810 is "made in Finland"
Nov 28 13:47:42 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 28 13:47:43 <slonopotamus> somewhere in europe
Nov 28 13:48:17 <slonopotamus> and mine
Nov 28 13:48:19 <Meiz_n810> all the parts are from china, but at least it is put together here =P
Nov 28 13:48:22 <fiferboy> qwerty12: Glad the patch worked
Nov 28 13:49:01 <slonopotamus> so i'll have to use n8x0 for missile strike.
Nov 28 13:49:06 <qwerty12> fiferboy, Yep, I'm about to send another version to the autobuilder (using quilt so people can see the changes easier!) :)
Nov 28 13:49:19 <qwerty12> I really want to start work on trying to fix 1.40 :(
Nov 28 13:49:25 <Stskeeps> i wonder if there's anywhere nokia puts source packages for the stuff in tags/
Nov 28 13:49:36 <fiferboy> What was the uPNP problem in 1.40?
Nov 28 13:50:17 <qwerty12> fiferboy, Seems to be broken, it won't connect to the router and forward ports. I even tried using the upnp code from 1.34 slotted into 1.40 and it still wouldn't work :/
Nov 28 13:51:01 <fiferboy> Strange.  Have you heard whether this is a problem on the desktop too?  Or does it seem to be tablet specific?
Nov 28 13:51:23 <qwerty12> Tablet specific from what I can tell because 1.40 on the desktop forwards ports fine :/
Nov 28 13:51:49 <fiferboy> Even stranger.
Nov 28 14:23:13 <fiferboy> qwerty12: When is transmission going to the auto-builder?
Nov 28 14:23:21 <qwerty12> fiferboy, already been sent :)
Nov 28 14:23:30 <qwerty12> It's already built afaik
Nov 28 14:23:53 <qwerty12> just waiting for the debs to slide over to extras-devel...
Nov 28 14:24:01 <fiferboy> Ah, but not promted.  Gotcha
Nov 28 14:24:30 <qwerty12> I forgot to change the Maemo-Upgrade-Description. Ah well :P
Nov 28 14:26:15 <fiferboy> There's always something
Nov 28 14:27:57 <qwerty12> Grr, it's being slow. I'm still waiting for transmission_1.40-2maemo3-1.34dgfix2_armel.deb to be transferred to extras-devel :/
Nov 28 14:28:45 <fiferboy> That does seem slower than usual.  Maybe the servers are full from Amerian Thanksgiving dinner
Nov 28 14:28:57 <aquatix> ghehe
Nov 28 14:28:59 <qwerty12> hehe
Nov 28 14:29:10 <aquatix> Server error: stuffed
Nov 28 14:29:11 <aquatix> ;)
Nov 28 14:29:20 <fiferboy> :D
Nov 28 14:29:26 <qwerty12> Maybe mikkov is making it scream with the boost builds :P
Nov 28 14:29:32 <fiferboy> Hopefully
Nov 28 14:29:44 <fiferboy> Although nothing shows in the autobuilder queue
Nov 28 14:29:54 <qwerty12> There we go! http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/t/transmission/transmission_1.40-2maemo3-1.34dgfix2_armel.deb
Nov 28 14:30:27 <qwerty12> Be nice if i386 builds could be disabled... I don't see the point in a i386 build of transmission...
Nov 28 14:30:57 <fiferboy> mikkov said something about building boost serialization for just armel
Nov 28 14:31:10 <fiferboy> Maybe if you speify the architecture in the control file?
Nov 28 14:31:21 <qwerty12> Yeah, I saw the log, dh_pythonsomething messed up on serialisation :/
Nov 28 14:31:28 <fiferboy> It would be nice if we had a debian packaging master to tell us things like this
Nov 28 14:31:30 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: it's a good way to see if things screw up horridly before getting the big machinery out
Nov 28 14:31:33 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 28 14:31:45 <johnx> the little machinery?
Nov 28 14:32:02 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, I *never* use the DIABLO_I386 target in my sbox :P
Nov 28 14:32:28 <Stskeeps> johnx: well, ok, in my language it is like the expression "big guns" :P
Nov 28 14:32:35 <fiferboy> qwerty12: i386 is good for memory testing, because some of the tools don't work in armel in sb
Nov 28 14:32:55 <Stskeeps> wow, nokia's sure taking a beating on OS practices atm
Nov 28 14:33:02 <qwerty12> fiferboy, ah... good point
Nov 28 14:33:04 <johnx> Stskeeps, right, I get what you mean. I was just having fun cause an ARM board is really the smaller machine :)
Nov 28 14:33:05 <Stskeeps> that's a lot of dislike in those threads O_o
Nov 28 14:33:32 <johnx> you weren't here for the 770 -> N800 transition, were you?
Nov 28 14:33:42 <Stskeeps> nop
Nov 28 14:33:48 <Stskeeps> it must have been even worse
Nov 28 14:34:32 <johnx> people don't like being told "your product isn't supported anymore, go spend $400+ on a new one"
Nov 28 14:34:48 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 28 14:35:01 <Stskeeps> which is why it could be a benefit for nokia to seperate the HW and the SW :P
Nov 28 14:35:31 <fiferboy> I stopped reading that thread
Nov 28 14:35:58 <johnx> Stskeeps, and sell the SW separately? or commit to free updates for x years?
Nov 28 14:36:16 <johnx> at the end of the day Nokia is *selling* *hardware*
Nov 28 14:37:00 <Stskeeps> johnx: well, system base should be OSS obviously.. and providing drivers like vendors do (wifi firmware, etc), .. and then sell some of their SW bundled with HW
Nov 28 14:37:03 <Stskeeps> on their own basis
Nov 28 14:37:07 <Stskeeps> along those lines
Nov 28 14:37:25 <Stskeeps> if their new SW requires new HW, so it does
Nov 28 14:37:32 <qwerty12> I wish dannym would fix the dependencies on his unzip-fm in extras-devel. I was looking at the code, seems really useful :(
Nov 28 14:37:33 <Stskeeps> rest of OS shouldn't have to be touched for it
Nov 28 14:37:48 <Stskeeps> johnx: i'm working on the hildon-theme- packages btw
Nov 28 14:37:56 <Stskeeps> and getting them branched and uploaded
Nov 28 14:38:17 <johnx> ah, sounds good, I'm doing a quick compile of hildon-desktop to see if the memory corruption fix solves my problem
Nov 28 14:38:25 <Stskeeps> for sapwood?
Nov 28 14:38:36 <johnx> yeah
Nov 28 14:38:49 <johnx> I guess I should just use one of the sapwood demos, huh?
Nov 28 14:38:54 <johnx> <- duh
Nov 28 14:39:11 <Stskeeps> there's sapwood demos? :P
Nov 28 14:39:14 <Stskeeps> (didn't knwo that)
Nov 28 14:39:59 <fiferboy> qwerty12: Wow, you fix more than just adding my patch in this version
Nov 28 14:40:05 <fiferboy> I was expecting a minor release
Nov 28 14:40:29 <qwerty12> Heh, it is really, just mainly to fix the things I forgot to hildonize :)
Nov 28 14:40:44 <johnx> well there were :/
Nov 28 14:41:50 <johnx> nope, top level of the source under "demos"
Nov 28 14:42:26 <johnx> s/nope/yup/
Nov 28 14:42:27 <infobot> johnx meant: yup, top level of the source under "demos"
Nov 28 14:44:07 <RST38h> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/11/20082811-russia-5800-launch-500.jpg
Nov 28 14:44:51 <qwerty12> RST38h, http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/8373/5800salesstartmoscow2hi6.jpg
Nov 28 14:45:33 <RST38h> qwerty: The packaging seems to be an attempt to simulate iPhone
Nov 28 14:45:37 <aquatix> looks... wanted
Nov 28 14:45:51 <Stskeeps> "The sources of the Maemo platform and related Nokia developed open source applications are available at git.maemo.org. (planned) "
Nov 28 14:45:54 <Stskeeps> that's interesting
Nov 28 14:46:25 <RST38h> Well, with 120 units only and the locals looking for a new status gadget, you can't go wrong
Nov 28 14:46:27 * johnx 's brain explodes from too man scms
Nov 28 14:46:31 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 28 14:46:34 <qwerty12> RST38h, Yeah, but imo, a lot of these new touch screen phones without a keypad/little amount of buttons come off as iphone clones to me
Nov 28 14:46:38 * Stskeeps is unsure what he thinks of launchpad so far
Nov 28 14:46:46 <Stskeeps> so far it is just a bzr hosting service, and not a directly good one at it
Nov 28 14:46:56 <RST38h> qwerty: And such they are.
Nov 28 14:47:24 <RST38h> qwerty: But who gives a damn? Let us all thank Steve for pinching phone industry in the butt
Nov 28 14:47:32 <qwerty12> hehe
Nov 28 14:47:49 <johnx> I kind of like having buttons on my phone...
Nov 28 14:47:52 <qwerty12> Finland are selling it for €389
Nov 28 14:48:06 * RST38h does not care for buttons as long as whatever replaces them is usable
Nov 28 14:48:27 <johnx> can't use it without staring at it = not usable
Nov 28 14:51:35 <RST38h> johnx: a displayed button won't do?
Nov 28 14:52:33 <johnx> I rely on tactile feedback so that I don't have to constantly look at my phone while typing on it
Nov 28 14:52:55 <RST38h> johnx: a beeping or clicking on vibrating displayed button won't do either?
Nov 28 14:53:24 <johnx> will I be able to find it with my thumb *before* clicking/activating it?
Nov 28 14:53:47 <woglinde> gu
Nov 28 14:53:53 <RST38h> qwerty: The price was 15000RUR ($545) and the 50 initial units were gone in 44 minutes. No advertising, no notice, nothing
Nov 28 14:53:57 <johnx> This isn't the "did I hit it" question, it's the "Where is it?" question
Nov 28 14:54:04 <woglinde> ups hi
Nov 28 14:54:31 <qwerty12> RST38h, hehe
Nov 28 14:54:36 <qwerty12> hi woglinde
Nov 28 14:54:38 * RST38h smiles evilly and suggest making slight bumps at the screen surface where buttons will be shown
Nov 28 14:54:51 <johnx> or just leave the *$&%ing keypad alone
Nov 28 14:55:01 <johnx> see, wasn't that easier? :)
Nov 28 14:55:18 <RST38h> johnx: I want my datapad.
Nov 28 14:55:35 <johnx> isn't there an apple store near you? :>
Nov 28 14:55:44 <RST38h> Thankfully, no
Nov 28 14:56:28 <johnx> I still wonder about all the hate for the iphone
Nov 28 14:56:38 <RST38h> It is not the iphone, it is the users
Nov 28 14:56:54 <RST38h> Like one aquaintance of mine put it, "gays and whores"
Nov 28 14:57:05 <johnx> ah, if I had to avoid products 'cause dumb people used them I'd be bare naked out in the street
Nov 28 14:57:16 <johnx> "dumb people live in apartments and houses, so I can't"
Nov 28 14:57:23 <RST38h> And people in general either hate those or at least do not want to be mixed with them
Nov 28 14:57:43 <johnx> I saw a dumb guy wearing a shirt once...
Nov 28 14:58:39 <RST38h> johnx: What you cite is really a counterargument used by apple nutcases
Nov 28 14:58:55 <johnx> so basically people hate it because it's successful, and some geeks dislike it because of Apple's draconian "app store" policies
Nov 28 14:59:03 <johnx> meh
Nov 28 14:59:06 <RST38h> johnx: pretty simple one too - "you are either a looser or a nerd and I am a normal guy"
Nov 28 14:59:32 <johnx> sorry, I don't buy into this hating things because of their users
Nov 28 14:59:59 <RST38h> johnx: Well, have you actually talked to any hardcore apple adepts?
Nov 28 15:00:03 <johnx> yeah
Nov 28 15:00:11 <RST38h> And you are still not buying it?
Nov 28 15:00:13 <johnx> well, define "hardcore"
Nov 28 15:00:39 <RST38h> Hardcore: Owns iPod, iPhone, iMac, and eager to tell everyone about it
Nov 28 15:00:45 <johnx> I used to work at a place where all the computers were Apple, but it was for technical reasons, so I guess that doesn't count
Nov 28 15:00:54 <RST38h> it does not
Nov 28 15:01:10 <RST38h> Lots of US .edu sites were stocked with Macs in the 90s
Nov 28 15:01:30 <RST38h> Apple had edu discounts and the lab setup was easy (unlike with PCs)
Nov 28 15:01:57 <Stskeeps> ke-recv, "first steps taken for pcsuite support"
Nov 28 15:02:01 <Stskeeps> that's intruiging
Nov 28 15:02:18 <RST38h> Nothing exciting. They want the tablet to talk to PCSuite
Nov 28 15:02:32 <Stskeeps> and a g_nokia
Nov 28 15:02:50 <RST38h> PCSuite basically uses serial-over-USB protocol, it is written in Java, huge, unstable, nad better to be avoided
Nov 28 15:02:56 <johnx> g_nokia, now that's pretty random :
Nov 28 15:03:40 <Stskeeps> RX-51
Nov 28 15:03:41 <RST38h> johnx: Btw a few days ago had to listen to a fanboy explaining that iPhone battery is non-replaceable to avoid people replacing it with exploding 3rd party one
Nov 28 15:03:48 <Stskeeps> that N900?
Nov 28 15:03:55 <johnx> guess so
Nov 28 15:04:02 <Stskeeps> googleable stuff, yay
Nov 28 15:04:02 <RST38h> johnx: And that bt data exchange is not being implemented to avoid VIRUSES
Nov 28 15:04:04 <johnx> is that the first time we've seen an rx-** for it?
Nov 28 15:04:09 <Stskeeps> first time i have
Nov 28 15:04:16 <RST38h> let's ask google
Nov 28 15:04:42 <qwerty12> http://markmail.org/message/zt2epehzqppioet3
Nov 28 15:04:46 <qwerty12> rx51 is there
Nov 28 15:04:47 <johnx> RST38h, I'm not arguing with you that people are stupid, but like I said, there are stupid people everywhere, using all products
Nov 28 15:05:11 <RST38h> RX-51: http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/AchatsVentes/Hardware/tablette-internet-bluooth-sujet_413158_1.htm
Nov 28 15:05:27 <RST38h> johnx: These are not stupid. They are demented.
Nov 28 15:05:42 <johnx> shades of grey
Nov 28 15:06:15 <RST38h> johnx: Nope. Stupidity is not contagious, dementia is
Nov 28 15:06:46 <johnx> so let's just get this out in the open: you're afraid that if you buy an iphone you will become demented
Nov 28 15:06:58 <RST38h> johnx: Actually, I am
Nov 28 15:07:18 <johnx> and this somehow makes more sense than "OMG! viruses over bluetooth!"?
Nov 28 15:07:19 <RST38h> johnx: (although I own an Apple BT keyboard and it did not made me go nuts so far :))
Nov 28 15:08:06 <RST38h> johnx: Well, I haven't seen BT viruses so far but I have seen at least 3 of my friends buy apple stuff
Nov 28 15:08:19 <RST38h> johnx: And none of them escaped.
Nov 28 15:08:39 <johnx> are they happier now?
Nov 28 15:08:42 <woglinde> hm maybee my nest task for maemo is
Nov 28 15:08:47 <RST38h> johnx: No idea, probably
Nov 28 15:08:50 <woglinde> to get cacao in extras-devel
Nov 28 15:09:12 <RST38h> johnx: But way creepier to talk to
Nov 28 15:09:30 <Stskeeps> johnx: i'm curious over af-startup no longer having matchbox in it
Nov 28 15:09:32 <johnx> maybe you just need to drink the proverbial koolaid and join the cult?
Nov 28 15:09:44 <RST38h> johnx <-- evil
Nov 28 15:09:58 <Stskeeps> .. what on earth is source_if_is?
Nov 28 15:10:05 <johnx> heh
Nov 28 15:10:13 <johnx> don't read that. that's the true cause of dementia
Nov 28 15:10:18 <RST38h> johnx: Naah, aside from the mental danger, iPhone just plain does not do what I use my phone for
Nov 28 15:11:03 <RST38h> johnx: But if N9x0 finally becomes an iphone-like tablet, I will buy it indeed
Nov 28 15:11:55 <johnx> I'm still coming out with mixed feelings an environment like maemo as a phone
Nov 28 15:12:37 <johnx> users adding random daemons and long-running programs in a non-managed way, combined with the need for 24/7 stability and battery life
Nov 28 15:13:17 <johnx> or did you mean "iphone like, without the phone"?
Nov 28 15:13:26 <Stskeeps> Preparing the plugin for animated video thumbnails
Nov 28 15:13:29 <Stskeeps> dear god. :P
Nov 28 15:13:34 <RST38h> johnx: does not matter much to me
Nov 28 15:13:45 <Stskeeps> (apologies to the writer who is in here)
Nov 28 15:14:00 <RST38h> johnx: Won't hold the whole pad to my ear anyway and I do not particularly like headsets
Nov 28 15:14:07 <johnx> Stskeeps, wow. I think some of this is beyond even desktop linux O_o
Nov 28 15:14:28 <RST38h> johnx: But if you worry about stablity, battery life, etc, just look at WinMobile :)
Nov 28 15:14:48 <RST38h> Whatever Nokia does to Maemo is going to be better than THAT thing
Nov 28 15:15:12 <johnx> well yes, that goes without saying
Nov 28 15:15:27 <johnx> but WinMo is the one platform I won't make any apologies for
Nov 28 15:15:46 <jaska> id take winmo over symbian any day tho
Nov 28 15:15:55 <RST38h> Still it is being used in phones and so far it is not dead
Nov 28 15:16:06 <Stskeeps> johnx: woo, "through noreturn functions work on ARM with gcc-4.2.1"
Nov 28 15:16:09 <RST38h> jaska: Sorry, I would rather use Symbian
Nov 28 15:16:13 <Stskeeps> gcc4 \o/
Nov 28 15:19:06 <jaska> why sorry?:)
Nov 28 15:19:28 <RST38h> 'cause Symbian is not exactly a paramount of perfection either
Nov 28 15:19:49 <jaska> heh, i hope they dump it for linux eventually so i dont have to buy htc phones
Nov 28 15:19:54 <RST38h> But at least it works
Nov 28 15:20:12 <RST38h> What's wrong with Symbian?
Nov 28 15:20:28 <jaska> all that symbian signed crap etc.
Nov 28 15:20:43 <jaska> and the symbian c++ stuff is naaasty
Nov 28 15:22:57 <RST38h> it's ok when you understand it
Nov 28 15:23:08 <RST38h> heavy handed but ok and seems to work
Nov 28 15:23:28 <jaska> i just see no excuse for not allowing the owner of a device run whatever he wants
Nov 28 15:23:31 <RST38h> wince is basically a bastardized win95 quickly and dirtily ported to arm though
Nov 28 15:23:46 <jaska> i dont love wince either, its just the lesser evil of the two for me
Nov 28 15:23:48 <inz> If there's an event involved with symbian, I really hope it's name ends 'L'...
Nov 28 15:24:28 <woglinde> RST38h to ppc and mips too
Nov 28 15:24:31 <RST38h> jaska: in practice, self signed apps get pretty much all the rights you would need for a non-system-level app
Nov 28 15:24:42 <RST38h> woglinde: yea, but those died rather quickly
Nov 28 15:25:00 <RST38h> mips version is still being supported, kinda, but not actively developed or used
Nov 28 15:25:17 <jaska> agree to disagree?:P
Nov 28 15:25:32 <jaska> as its somewhat ot and going nowhere
Nov 28 15:25:50 <johnx> I had to support WinMo phones in a previous job. Never. Again.
Nov 28 15:26:20 <woglinde> johnx he you got a handy board support package
Nov 28 15:26:58 <johnx> ha! I didn't even get one of my own to play with
Nov 28 15:27:25 <johnx> it was just "these people need their new WinMo phones to sync with their Macs"
Nov 28 15:27:29 <ShadowJK> the funniest thing is that some nokia people when you whine to them about symbian signed being crap/not working/offline/timing out, they sometimes tell you to jailbreak your phone and get around the symbiansigned stuff permanently :)
Nov 28 15:27:42 <johnx> and then to top it off the things had random bugs, failures in addition
Nov 28 15:29:25 * RST38h sincerely hopes Nokia will take the Symbian Signed crap away now
Nov 28 15:29:40 <qwerty12> RST38h, +1
Nov 28 15:29:43 <RST38h> It did nothing but provide income stream for Symbian
Nov 28 15:29:55 <RST38h> undeserved income too
Nov 28 15:29:55 <Olly> :)
Nov 28 15:32:52 <Khertan_45872> Hello !
Nov 28 15:34:05 <johnx> hello Khertan clone #45872
Nov 28 15:34:17 <johnx> how is #48573 doing today?
Nov 28 15:35:21 <Khertan_45872> #48573 command unknow
Nov 28 15:35:24 <Khertan_45872> :)
Nov 28 15:35:31 <Khertan_45872> I'm fine and you ?
Nov 28 15:35:47 <johnx> pretty good
Nov 28 15:35:52 <johnx> about to get some sleep
Nov 28 15:35:57 <Khertan_45872> héhé
Nov 28 15:36:23 * Khertan_45872 have just get is new phone
Nov 28 15:36:37 <johnx> working better than the old one?
Nov 28 15:36:48 * Khertan_45872 must wait until 5 December before the line will be activated
Nov 28 15:36:56 <Khertan_45872> Johnx > don't know yet
Nov 28 15:37:10 <Khertan_45872> johnx> but the problem wasn't the phone ... but the ISP.
Nov 28 15:37:19 <Khertan_45872> and i change the both :)
Nov 28 15:37:31 <johnx> ah, well that's a good start
Nov 28 15:37:38 <johnx> I hope this one works out better
Nov 28 15:37:39 <Khertan_45872> yep ... hoping it ll be better
Nov 28 15:38:18 <Khertan_45872> i ve now a 6500Slide ...
Nov 28 15:38:23 <Khertan_45872> not a bad phone
Nov 28 15:38:42 <Khertan_45872> i like it to be honest
Nov 28 15:38:44 <Khertan_45872> simple
Nov 28 15:38:49 <Khertan_45872> and nice
Nov 28 15:38:55 <johnx> Stskeeps, tried the latest sapwood sapwood from svn with gtk from mer: ./buttonbox: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: undefined symbol: hildon_g_scanner_cache_open
Nov 28 15:39:25 <johnx> is that gtk from trunk? or tag?
Nov 28 15:40:25 <qwerty12> hah, synaptic actually compiles...
Nov 28 15:41:45 <Stskeeps> johnx: get glib too
Nov 28 15:42:15 <johnx> good call
Nov 28 15:42:39 <johnx> ssh'ed into too many different "ubuntu armel jaunty" machines O_o
Nov 28 15:42:42 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 28 15:42:47 * Stskeeps groans about bzr
Nov 28 15:43:37 * Stskeeps isn't sure he likes either bzr or launchpad
Nov 28 15:45:55 <johnx> well it runs, still the same obscure message
Nov 28 15:46:13 <johnx> I mean the sapwood error I've been seeing
Nov 28 15:46:20 <johnx> anyways, time for bed
Nov 28 15:46:32 <johnx> 'night all
Nov 28 15:46:35 <aquatix> johnx: nn
Nov 28 16:19:06 <GAN800> Refusing to provide an option to disable screen dimming . . . nice
Nov 28 16:19:36 <GAN800> "The problem really is that our implementation isn't good enough!
Nov 28 16:20:06 <GAN800> "We'll make it awesome. Swear!"
Nov 28 16:24:21 <Stskeeps> OHM, i believe
Nov 28 16:24:51 <Stskeeps> (and that i'm willing to bet DSME will not have screen dimming as part of it's functionality)
Nov 28 16:25:51 <Stskeeps> as that'd be transferred to ohm prolly :P
Nov 28 16:30:10 <GAN800> brightness is diferentiation
Nov 28 16:30:15 <Stskeeps> ..
Nov 28 16:30:16 <GAN800> So it'll be closee.
Nov 28 16:30:21 <GAN800> s/ee/ed/
Nov 28 16:30:21 <infobot> GAN800 meant: So it'll be closed.
Nov 28 16:30:25 <Stskeeps> yay. :P
Nov 28 16:30:34 <GAN800> That's why they moved it out of dsme to mce
Nov 28 16:30:45 <GAN800> Where the fuck is DSME?
Nov 28 16:31:07 <Stskeeps> good question, think they're waiting to coincide it with OHM
Nov 28 16:31:14 <GAN800> lol @ the Fremantle thread
Nov 28 16:31:29 <Stskeeps> that thread is really going toxic
Nov 28 16:31:40 <GAN800> it was supposed to be out after the Summit.
Nov 28 16:31:51 <Stskeeps> but i hope git.maemo.org, mer and other projects start seeing more community patches etc
Nov 28 16:32:00 <GAN800> It dragged out all the retards to contibute their two cents of idiocy.
Nov 28 16:32:01 <Stskeeps> start seeing = make maemo start seeing
Nov 28 16:35:15 <woglinde> re
Nov 28 17:02:41 * Jaffa *tries* to inject some sense into the thread :)
Nov 28 17:07:41 <GAN800> Jaffa, unpossible.
Nov 28 17:08:19 * Jaffa makes GAN800 fail English
Nov 28 17:08:28 * aquatix plays the mission: unpossible theme
Nov 28 17:08:44 <aquatix> (rather similar to the mission: impossible one)
Nov 28 17:10:03 <GAN800> Not a typo.
Nov 28 17:12:11 <Jaffa> Indeed.
Nov 28 17:12:15 <Jaffa>  /nick GAN800 RalphW
Nov 28 17:13:41 <GAN800> Even more impossible than impossible.
Nov 28 17:19:24 <GAN800> Jaffa, I think the problem really is is that they're not as far along on the five stages as we are. :p
Nov 28 17:19:54 <GAN800> I've moved on to bargainning 'Let's make a deal . . .' and they're still stuck on anger. ;)
Nov 28 17:20:06 <Jaffa> heh
Nov 28 17:20:16 * Jaffa 's done anger, and now's just itching for some fun new hardware
Nov 28 17:20:29 <Jaffa> Especially after seeing the Movial OMAP3430 demo from April
Nov 28 17:20:36 <GAN800> Hehe
Nov 28 17:20:53 <GAN800> OMAP3 is terrifying
Nov 28 17:21:24 <GAN800> There's at least one thing to be said for the mobile space these days: it sure is exciting.
Nov 28 17:23:14 <Jaffa> Blimey. Jaffa Jr. is using the scrollwheel on his mouse.
Nov 28 17:24:32 <woglinde> jaffa haha woglinde jr. is using the scrollwheel of my mouse
Nov 28 17:27:18 <Jaffa> woglinde: how old is your jr?
Nov 28 17:27:33 <woglinde> 2 years and 4 month
Nov 28 17:27:35 <lopz> hola
Nov 28 17:28:50 <Ro9u3oR> can someone help? i installed usb control but its not working when i connect to the usb port of my n800
Nov 28 17:29:04 <woglinde> Ro9u3oR I think this applet os broken
Nov 28 17:29:10 * Jaffa 's is 2.75
Nov 28 17:30:09 <woglinde> jaffa but since 2 weeks he likes the number 5
Nov 28 17:30:17 <woglinde> he is searching it on all tinks
Nov 28 17:30:27 <woglinde> things
Nov 28 17:30:33 <Jaffa> heh
Nov 28 17:31:23 <Ro9u3oR> how can i get it working wog?
Nov 28 17:31:38 <woglinde> Ro9u3oR dont know
Nov 28 17:31:41 <woglinde> didnt look at the code
Nov 28 17:41:23 <Ro9u3oR> is the usbcontrol app the same as the one in the respiratory
Nov 28 18:15:39 <Stskeeps> anyone with launchpad/git/bazaar experience? :P
Nov 28 18:18:18 <mgedmin> Stskeeps: what kind of experience?
Nov 28 18:18:24 <mgedmin> does "using them for 5 minutes" count?
Nov 28 18:23:48 <Stskeeps> hehe. i guess :P which one would seem most appealing for contributing to Maemo like projects?
Nov 28 18:29:44 <mgedmin> not garage.maemo.org?
Nov 28 18:30:01 <mgedmin> the sourceforge-like UI is horrible, yes, but it's sort of the unofficial official place for it
Nov 28 18:30:20 <mgedmin> launchpad isn't too bad, e.g. the bug tracker doesn't suck so much as the one on garage
Nov 28 18:31:10 <mgedmin> git is faster and more stable, but is, perhaps, a bit harder to use sometimes than bzr
Nov 28 18:31:54 <Stskeeps> *nod*
Nov 28 18:32:57 <mgedmin> if you want source hosting on launchpad, that may be a reason to use bzr
Nov 28 18:34:01 <Stskeeps> well, let's say you want to contribute to let's say, hildon application manager, - would you then branch the HAM repository and upload your branch to somewhere? how many steps are acceptable? (i mean, compared to uploading your branch to a public_html or the likes, instead of making a launchpad account, etc..) :P
Nov 28 18:35:24 <mgedmin> publishing a git branch is a huge pain, compared to publishing a bzr branch
Nov 28 18:36:09 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 28 18:36:30 <mgedmin> I suppose it depends on how much effort you want to invest in learning the tool
Nov 28 18:36:36 <mgedmin> if you want something easy to use, use bzr
Nov 28 18:36:48 <mgedmin> if you want something powerful, use git, and expect to be frustrated initially
Nov 28 18:37:00 <mgedmin> in the past bzr used to frustrate me a lot with its bugs
Nov 28 18:37:06 <mgedmin> having your branch rendered unusable is not fun
Nov 28 18:37:36 <mgedmin> and it's not fun when it happens the second time, a year later, after assurances from bzr fanboys claiming all bugs of that kind have been fixed for years and now it's really really stable
Nov 28 18:37:37 <Stskeeps> *nod*
Nov 28 18:37:50 <mgedmin> and when it happens the *third* time another year later, you're pretty pissed off
Nov 28 18:37:52 <mgedmin> at least I was
Nov 28 18:38:01 <mgedmin> but that was also about 6 months ago and I haven't tried bzr since
Nov 28 18:38:05 <mgedmin> maybe they fixed everything (ha)
Nov 28 18:38:12 <mgedmin> or maybe I'm just good at triggering bugs
Nov 28 18:38:44 <Stskeeps> i have same issue, like, branching from svn, then figuring out there's settings of the branch structure, and your existing branches can't pull from their upstream :P
Nov 28 18:39:06 <mgedmin> interop with svn opens a whole new can of worms
Nov 28 18:39:17 <mgedmin> and they're all crawling around
Nov 28 19:52:48 <RST38h> yawn
Nov 28 19:53:03 <aquatix> !coffee RST38h
Nov 28 19:54:07 * RST38h moos at aquatix
Nov 28 19:54:25 * aquatix yawns at RST38h 
Nov 28 19:54:55 <Stskeeps> ~curse bzr
Nov 28 19:54:56 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, bzr !
Nov 28 20:00:49 <RST38h> what's new & exciting?
Nov 28 20:30:00 <Stskeeps> not much
Nov 28 21:17:40 <konttori_> xorAxAx: thanks for the interesting info about the pypy guys. Yeah, psyco is 386 only. Works wonders on python code though. Doubled the perf of my test case.
Nov 28 21:17:55 <konttori_> just by including two lines of code.
Nov 28 21:18:09 <konttori_> import psyco and psyco.full()
Nov 28 21:18:58 <konttori_> but, yeah, pypy should be interesting as well. the psyco guy has also joined pypy forces as far as I know
Nov 28 21:23:55 <Stskeeps> yeah.. pypy really has a lot of potential
Nov 28 21:24:47 * qwerty12_N800 can't bring himself to say pypy for some reason
Nov 28 21:34:32 <aquatix> qwerty12_N800: you just did
Nov 28 21:34:33 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 28 21:34:58 * Stskeeps wonders what g_nokia.ko will do
Nov 28 21:35:50 <qwerty12_N800> aquatix, ORLY? hehe, i'll give you the point ;) but prouncing it sounds odd :p
Nov 28 21:36:00 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, i think you know :p
Nov 28 21:36:01 <aquatix> yep
Nov 28 21:36:14 <aquatix> i say it like pie pie
Nov 28 21:36:21 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: .. well, ok, implement pc suite protocol
Nov 28 21:36:25 <aquatix> hmmmm, pie...
Nov 28 21:36:32 <Stskeeps> (does this mean sane sync?)
Nov 28 21:37:50 * qwerty12_N800 makes a note to get transmission to use the default hildon icons, gtk ones suck
Nov 28 21:38:32 * Stskeeps wonders why on earth maemo gets booted into while charging, instead of doing it in initfs..
Nov 28 21:39:57 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: do you really want to know? :P sometimes ignorance is quite a bliss :)
Nov 28 21:40:38 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: i hoped it was cos then it would be instant to switch from charging mode to maemo actually running, but it doesn't seem to do that.. also, initfs size could be a factor
Nov 28 21:40:50 <Stskeeps> .. or worst, they want to use sound when it's charged
Nov 28 21:40:51 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 28 21:48:18 <konttori_> probably some parts of power management are done at kernel level
Nov 28 21:48:35 <konttori_> and by power management, I mean charging  management
Nov 28 21:49:12 <Stskeeps> ah, i was talking about it from UI point of view
Nov 28 21:49:26 <Stskeeps> that the charging animation actually happens inside X
Nov 28 21:49:26 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 28 21:52:10 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: you see the text below animation?
Nov 28 21:52:39 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: now consider the initfs has uClibc without locales..
Nov 28 21:53:05 <qwerty12_N800> hah >.<
Nov 28 21:55:07 <RST38h> An Italian right-wing party is offering 1500 euros to parents who name their babies after wartime fascist dictator Benito Mussolini or his wife Rachele, saying their names are under threat.
Nov 28 21:55:29 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: ah.
Nov 28 21:55:36 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: yes, some things i'd not like to know
Nov 28 21:56:23 <RST38h> A worker at a Wal-Mart in Long Island, New York, was killed when a throng of shoppers broke down the doors to the store early this morning and knocked him to the ground.
Nov 28 21:57:42 <doc|home> really?
Nov 28 22:00:00 <Stskeeps> RST38h: yeah, and a pregnant woman lost her baby as well
Nov 28 22:00:30 <qwerty12_N800> Greedy motherfuckers.
Nov 28 22:01:39 <Stskeeps> economic crisis, eh :P
Nov 28 22:02:56 <aquatix> well, pumping some money around only helps
Nov 28 22:03:03 <aquatix> but consumers are weird
Nov 28 22:03:26 <RST38h> Darwin at work. He never sleeps.
Nov 28 22:03:41 <RST38h> For the first time, Planned Parenthood in Indiana is offering gift certificates. The organization said a big increase in calls and visits from newly unemployed and uninsured Hoosiers prompted what it calls the unusual, yet practical gift option.
Nov 28 22:05:37 <doc|home> aquatix: only helps as long as they can afford it. Credit cards don't count.
Nov 28 22:05:46 <RST38h> Sts: Here go the babies
Nov 28 22:06:13 <qwerty12_N800> For those who really can't afford tablet getting shut off by mce so soon : dbus-send --system --type=signal /com/nokia/bme/signal com.nokia.bme.signal.battery_full :P
Nov 28 22:06:39 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: i've had deblet run my tablet down to a vegetative state
Nov 28 22:06:42 <RST38h> qwerty: How much extra time does it give? =)
Nov 28 22:06:46 <Stskeeps> had to pull battery after it died
Nov 28 22:07:36 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, no idea :P. but useful if you need to finish quickly typing something..,
Nov 28 22:07:41 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, heh
Nov 28 22:08:31 <RST38h> Speaking of dbus...Is there a list of system dbus messages somewhere?
Nov 28 22:08:44 <RST38h> I mean, messages accepted by all the standard firmware stuff
Nov 28 22:10:17 <aquatix> doc|home: myeah, the US economy is weird as everything is on a loan (see credit cards instead of debit cards)
Nov 28 22:10:46 <doc|home> aquatix: so is its currency, it all has to get paid back at some stage
Nov 28 22:10:53 <RST38h> That is not economy, that is stupidity
Nov 28 22:10:59 <doc|home> yup
Nov 28 22:11:32 <doc|home> that's what happens when you have a federal reserve that cuts interest rates to nothing and a government which gives out money to stimulate the economy
Nov 28 22:11:44 * RST38h wonders whether this will eventually end up with indentured servitude
Nov 28 22:11:55 <doc|home> RST38h: what do you think the national debt is?
Nov 28 22:12:22 <doc|home> sorry, that sounded confrontational, it wasn't meant to
Nov 28 22:12:49 <RST38h> I actually mean literal indentured servitude
Nov 28 22:13:19 <RST38h> Where debtor's life eventually becomes the property of his lender
Nov 28 22:13:39 <doc|home> aren't people already in that position with taxes and the government?
Nov 28 22:13:44 <RST38h> No
Nov 28 22:13:56 <doc|home> you have the choice of not paying taxes?
Nov 28 22:14:18 <RST38h> You pay taxes for the right to live in a country to which you pay taxes
Nov 28 22:14:35 <RST38h> Don't like it? Move somewhere else
Nov 28 22:14:42 <doc|home> not really, even if you decide to sell all your assets to leave the US you're forced to pay an even bigger cut to the government
Nov 28 22:14:59 <doc|home> and where else is there that doesn't have taxes?
Nov 28 22:15:12 <RST38h> Well, that is your task to find
Nov 28 22:15:21 <Stskeeps> anarctica? :P
Nov 28 22:15:24 <Stskeeps> the moon? :P
Nov 28 22:15:29 <doc|home> sure, just like finding a master who won't whip me
Nov 28 22:15:49 <RST38h> As to leaving US, I am aquainted with the law and if you get rid of US citizenship you do not need to pay US taxes
Nov 28 22:16:10 <RST38h> If you live outside US but retain citizenship, you only need to pay taxes on anything above $80k
Nov 28 22:16:20 <doc|home> there's a law, or at least a plan for a law, to force you to pay X years taxes if you give up citizen ship
Nov 28 22:16:24 <RST38h> Sts: Somali will probably do the job
Nov 28 22:16:37 <RST38h> doc: When it becomes a law, let me know
Nov 28 22:16:41 * doc|home not sure why he put a space in there
Nov 28 22:16:44 <doc|home> RST38h: ...
Nov 28 22:27:42 <RST38h> The two penguins have started placing stones at the feet of parents before waddling away with their eggs, in a bid to hide their theft... But the deception has been noticed by other penguins at the zoo, who have ostracised the gay couple from their group.
Nov 28 22:29:03 <RST38h> DailyRotten is heavy on parenting tonight
Nov 28 23:34:00 <AStorm> hmm
Nov 28 23:34:08 <univac_> siema AStorm
Nov 28 23:34:24 <univac_> masz n-ke? ;d
Nov 28 23:34:30 <AStorm> this channel is in English last I heard :>
Nov 28 23:34:41 <AStorm> yes
Nov 28 23:35:03 <univac_> 810?
Nov 28 23:35:17 <AStorm> yes, so?
Nov 28 23:35:24 * univac_ 2 ;p
Nov 28 23:35:44 <AStorm> I'd like some more info about getting maemo to start öy init script
Nov 28 23:35:47 <AStorm> *my
Nov 28 23:37:01 <AStorm> I wrote one, dumped it into init.d, added proper symlinks from rc.<somenumber>
Nov 28 23:37:10 <AStorm> yet it still isn't started
Nov 28 23:40:38 <samr7> hello all
Nov 28 23:40:44 <AStorm> hi
Nov 28 23:40:56 <samr7> hi astorm
Nov 28 23:41:14 <samr7> I'm developing an audio application
Nov 28 23:41:25 <AStorm> hmm, with my ondemand settings on, fennec is much more snappy
Nov 28 23:41:40 <samr7> and am looking for some explanations of how sound works on Maemo
Nov 28 23:41:55 * AStorm loves its clickzoom
Nov 28 23:42:04 <samr7> ex: does Skype have good quality audio?
Nov 28 23:42:12 <AStorm> well, it's mostly esound on top of alsa
Nov 28 23:42:18 <AStorm> good enough
Nov 28 23:42:25 <samr7> it's full duplex?
Nov 28 23:42:27 <AStorm> although it uses a subpar codec
Nov 28 23:42:41 <AStorm> uhm... there would be no point in half duplex
Nov 28 23:42:49 <samr7> lol, good
Nov 28 23:42:56 <samr7> does it provide good sound latency?
Nov 28 23:43:03 <AStorm> i's skype 1.4
Nov 28 23:43:03 <samr7> what backend does it use, ESD?
Nov 28 23:43:06 <AStorm> yes
Nov 28 23:43:11 <AStorm> no idea
Nov 28 23:43:16 <AStorm> probably esd
Nov 28 23:43:34 <AStorm> can't use alsa directly while esound is active
Nov 28 23:43:43 <AStorm> might be using gstreamer though
Nov 28 23:43:49 <samr7> ah..
Nov 28 23:43:51 <AStorm> but I don't think so
Nov 28 23:44:20 <samr7> everybody is telling me that ALSA is not the way to go, because of how the DSP driver is implemented
Nov 28 23:44:44 <samr7> and that ESD works a lot better
Nov 28 23:44:54 <AStorm> well, esd has a dsp resampler
Nov 28 23:45:06 <AStorm> which is faster than alsa's
Nov 28 23:45:29 <AStorm> and approx. same quality
Nov 28 23:46:02 <AStorm> what I find intriguing is how they hacked esd to provide reasonable latency
Nov 28 23:46:11 <AStorm> it's not meant for that
Nov 28 23:47:35 <samr7> hmmm
Nov 28 23:47:42 * samr7 looks up the maemo ESD source code
Nov 28 23:48:55 <samr7> ESD certainly blows chunks using ALSA
Nov 28 23:49:05 <AStorm> yes
Nov 28 23:49:06 <samr7> can't even get it to stream full-duplex without skipping
Nov 28 23:49:12 <derf> AStorm: Do you know what the latency of the gstreamer interface is?
Nov 28 23:49:25 <AStorm> no idea
Nov 28 23:49:29 <AStorm> test it
Nov 28 23:49:38 <AStorm> not bad though apparently
Nov 28 23:49:47 <derf> Test it with what.
Nov 28 23:50:07 <AStorm> derf, uhm, try full loopback?
Nov 28 23:50:21 <AStorm> and measure time difference
Nov 28 23:50:27 <AStorm> or try small buffers
Nov 28 23:50:29 <derf> That sounds like work :)
Nov 28 23:50:36 <AStorm> and seee when it starts to skip
Nov 28 23:51:03 <AStorm> samr7, this maemo ALSA interface it a bit weird
Nov 28 23:51:21 <AStorm> it looks like 3 sound cards
Nov 28 23:51:33 <samr7> ?
Nov 28 23:51:38 <samr7> to which application?
Nov 28 23:52:07 <AStorm> ...
Nov 28 23:52:12 <AStorm> to everything
Nov 28 23:52:20 <AStorm> see /dev/sound
Nov 28 23:53:04 <samr7> what does 'aplay -l' think?
Nov 28 23:53:49 <samr7> alsa-lib is very inconsistent about how it presents devices and plugin configurations, and they need to clean it up
Nov 28 23:54:26 * samr7 doesn't actually have access to an N8x0
Nov 28 23:54:58 <AStorm> ok, I'll check
Nov 28 23:55:12 <AStorm> no aplay
Nov 28 23:55:29 <AStorm> well, I'll see if there are alsa-utils in repo
Nov 28 23:55:56 <AStorm> nope
Nov 28 23:56:07 <samr7> hmmm
Nov 28 23:56:23 <AStorm> let me send you /proc/asound/cards
Nov 28 23:56:31 <samr7> it's got one of those??
Nov 28 23:56:47 <AStorm> hmm
Nov 28 23:56:49 <AStorm> yes
Nov 28 23:56:50 <samr7> which platform are you using?
Nov 28 23:56:56 <AStorm> n810
Nov 28 23:57:02 <AStorm> diablo
Nov 28 23:57:10 <AStorm> it's 2.6.21-omap
Nov 28 23:57:18 <AStorm> there's but one device
Nov 28 23:57:32 <AStorm>  0 [EAC            ]: EAC - OMAP24xx EAC
Nov 28 23:57:57 <AStorm> which is full-duplex I guess
Nov 28 23:58:12 <samr7> interesting!
Nov 28 23:58:26 <samr7> is that a dummy device maybe?
Nov 28 23:58:33 <samr7> what's in /dev/snd/ ?
Nov 28 23:59:08 <samr7> I thought ALSA support was implemented using an alsa-lib plugin that connected to their private, non-ALSA kernel DSP interface
Nov 28 23:59:26 <AStorm> nothing except controlC0
Nov 28 23:59:38 <samr7> ah, so it's a mixer plugin only
Nov 28 23:59:40 <AStorm> so it bypasses alsa and writes through dsp itself
Nov 28 23:59:50 <AStorm> sneaky bastards
Nov 29 00:00:06 <samr7> that's right, no ALSA kernel driver for PCM.
Nov 29 00:00:06 <AStorm> there is an alsa driver, fully fledged
Nov 29 00:00:13 <samr7> there is?
Nov 29 00:00:15 <AStorm> not enabled, not that there isn't one
Nov 29 00:00:18 <AStorm> yes
Nov 29 00:00:29 <AStorm> I built it with my 2.6.24-omap
Nov 29 00:00:49 <samr7> how well does it work?
Nov 29 00:01:08 <AStorm> well enough
Nov 29 00:01:14 <AStorm> s/does/did/
Nov 29 00:01:22 <AStorm> it might have been improved
Nov 29 00:02:46 <AStorm> e.g. after mangling gconf, alsa worked
Nov 29 00:03:27 <AStorm> gstreamer through alsa that is
Nov 29 00:05:14 <AStorm> (and obviously killing esd)
Nov 29 00:07:00 <AStorm> I will build a newer linux-omap and the free wifi driver
Nov 29 00:07:27 <AStorm> but that's after I'm done with this other stuff, like handwriting recognition
Nov 29 00:10:20 <samr7> hm, keeping busy there AStorm
Nov 29 00:10:52 <samr7> I'm still curious to know precisely what sound interface Skype uses
Nov 29 00:11:56 <AStorm> esd via esddsp is my bet
Nov 29 00:12:15 <AStorm> or esd directly
Nov 29 00:12:31 <AStorm> no idea if skype 1.4 had that
Nov 29 00:13:38 <AStorm> we need 2.x... it's so much better
Nov 29 00:19:44 <GAN800>  hchkjwjh
Nov 29 00:19:50 <GAN800> mvwkvjug
Nov 29 00:20:12 <GAN800> b.laj blnr  nblabjj
Nov 29 00:20:55 <AStorm> random drunken garbage? ;)
Nov 29 00:21:12 * AStorm needs an usb host cable
Nov 29 00:26:24 <Myrtti> or a cat
Nov 29 01:00:04 <prez00> hello.. i have latest updates on n800, email apps constantly stops updating email.  using it with 2 imap accounts, have to kill modest and restart app for it to update..
Nov 29 01:15:08 <prez00> aanyone home?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 29 02:59:57 2008