**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 29 02:59:57 2008
Nov 29 03:56:21 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles, is there a way to supress the dialog when exiting flight mode?
Nov 29 04:50:16 <zakkm> anyone here?
Nov 29 04:51:15 <AStorm> yes
Nov 29 04:51:20 <AStorm> (but lagged)
Nov 29 04:52:19 <disco_stu> lol
Nov 29 04:53:08 <zakkm> what would megahoc be in wifi?
Nov 29 04:53:25 <disco_stu> adhoc ?
Nov 29 04:53:33 <zakkm> o
Nov 29 04:53:54 <disco_stu> ?
Nov 29 05:14:27 <AStorm> I'd love the clickzoom to be in microB
Nov 29 05:14:27 <AStorm> (from fennec)
Nov 29 05:15:01 <AStorm> it's great, but other parts of fennec are subpar (yes, it's alpha)
Nov 29 05:23:53 <hellanio> brazilian?
Nov 29 05:27:57 <hellanio> I erased without wanting the /var of mine n800 now does not bind plus somebody can help ?
Nov 29 05:32:12 <hellanio> ?
Nov 29 05:32:16 <hellanio> up!
Nov 29 05:32:17 <hellanio> :(
Nov 29 05:38:57 <AStorm> hellanio, you'll have to reflash or somehow restore /var
Nov 29 05:40:08 <hellanio> how to make this of an easy skill? I am a little ineteligente with regard to this.
Nov 29 05:40:17 <hellanio> AStorm:
Nov 29 05:41:36 <AStorm> hm.. there is a guide on internet tablet talk forums and wiki.maemo.org (hopefully correct url)
Nov 29 05:42:19 <hellanio> AStorm: Reflash without n800 inicialize the system? it only restarts always!
Nov 29 05:42:53 <AStorm> yes, you have to hold task button
Nov 29 05:43:07 <AStorm> one with rectangles
Nov 29 05:43:57 <hellanio> ok
Nov 29 05:44:43 <hellanio> i try..  :D
Nov 29 06:19:39 <lopz> nigth
Nov 29 07:05:35 <Chani> i was told a while ago that my n810 shipped with a bad partition table on the 2gig flash, but i was too busy to fix it
Nov 29 07:06:04 <Chani> now i have time... what's the easiest way? is there a cfdisk package?
Nov 29 07:06:25 <johnx> I believe the format option in the filemanager will fix it
Nov 29 07:06:56 <johnx> or if you have a linux desktop you could use gparted
Nov 29 07:07:19 <johnx> I think cfdisk is available, but you'd need to reformat the partition afterwards or you'd just have different problems
Nov 29 07:07:41 <Chani> hmm, i never thought of doing it over the usb cable
Nov 29 07:07:55 <johnx> yeah, that would be fine
Nov 29 07:08:12 <qwerty12> Yeah, I uploaded cfdisk to extras-devel but if you can do it over a usb cable, it's even easier
Nov 29 07:10:14 <Chani> but the filemanager formatter was fastest :) yay, writable again... umm... unless that only reformatted and left the partition table damaged still
Nov 29 07:10:35 <johnx> I was pretty sure that actually fixed it
Nov 29 07:10:39 <Chani> well, i'll copyy back my data and see what happens
Nov 29 07:11:03 <qwerty12> You should be alright, I think fanoush said that his card with multiple partitions got deleted and he was back only with one partition :P
Nov 29 07:11:13 <qwerty12> after using file manager's formatter
Nov 29 07:12:34 <Chani> ah, so it is the meddling little bastard i need it to be ;)
Nov 29 07:12:43 <qwerty12> lol
Nov 29 07:15:55 <RST38h> reMoo
Nov 29 07:18:41 <Meiz_n810> gparted on n810?
Nov 29 07:19:10 <johnx> probably in ubuntu :)
Nov 29 07:19:15 <Ro9u3oR> i noticed a utube video with open office 2.x  running on the n800.  anyone know anything about that?
Nov 29 07:19:27 <qwerty12> There's penguinbait's gparted but it's pretty big due to the libraries it uses
Nov 29 07:19:33 <qwerty12> Ro9u3oR, deblet or easy debian
Nov 29 07:20:32 <Ro9u3oR> is that a app
Nov 29 07:21:06 <Meiz_n810> sfdisk always shows fatal error cannot read disk drive with my external card.
Nov 29 07:21:27 <Meiz_n810> gparted on both computer and tablet works
Nov 29 07:21:40 <qwerty12> Meiz_n810, Use the parted (command line version) or cfdisk I put in diablo extras-devel then :P
Nov 29 07:21:49 <Meiz_n810> ok
Nov 29 07:22:07 <Meiz_n810> parted seemed to work once  i tried
Nov 29 07:58:37 <prez00> does anyone else have email client stop updating?  latest updates on n800, but have to restart modest every so often, two imap accounts,..
Nov 29 07:59:05 <johnx> are you on the latest version of OS2008?
Nov 29 07:59:12 <johnx> I used to have that problem, but it works now
Nov 29 07:59:29 <prez00> johnx, latest 2008
Nov 29 07:59:38 <johnx> Diablo 35-5?
Nov 29 07:59:57 <johnx> s/35-5/36-5
Nov 29 08:00:59 <disco_stu> modest is awful
Nov 29 08:01:13 <johnx> eh, works fine here
Nov 29 08:01:41 <disco_stu> liked the one in Chinook
Nov 29 08:01:58 <johnx> It could never even connect to my mail server
Nov 29 08:02:14 <disco_stu> worked fine to me
Nov 29 08:02:18 <disco_stu> lol
Nov 29 08:02:32 <prez00> 36-5
Nov 29 08:02:47 <johnx> then I have no idea, sorry
Nov 29 08:03:22 <prez00> recommendations for another email client?
Nov 29 08:03:44 <johnx> Claws mail maybe?
Nov 29 08:05:28 <prez00> will try it..
Nov 29 09:27:56 <zap> hehe, Fedora 10 new graphical boot screen remembers ITOS very much (centered logo and progress bar at very bottom)
Nov 29 09:28:33 <qwerty12> Plymouth looks way more cool than usplash :(
Nov 29 09:31:35 <zap> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APQmR_IIpqk
Nov 29 09:38:26 * lcuk yawns
Nov 29 09:40:07 <mlpug> is there dbus introspection utility that would list dbus services and their interfaces that are up-and-running in this device at this moment
Nov 29 09:40:39 <mlpug> dbus-monitor only outputs messages sent to the bus?
Nov 29 09:56:49 <Stskeeps> morning lcuk
Nov 29 09:57:05 <lcuk> bleurg good mornin sts
Nov 29 09:57:12 * Stskeeps passes lcuk some coffee
Nov 29 09:57:17 <lcuk> :D excellent
Nov 29 09:57:35 <lcuk> im surprised by how much i slept
Nov 29 09:58:08 <lcuk> i spent most of yesterday in bed and then zonked again at about 8pm
Nov 29 10:00:03 <Stskeeps> flu or just burn out?
Nov 29 10:00:04 <lcuk> Stskeeps, i see you've been busy on mer again
Nov 29 10:00:10 <Stskeeps> yeah, a bit
Nov 29 10:00:15 <lcuk> migraine
Nov 29 10:00:22 <Stskeeps> i'm still trying to reach critical mass where people start contributing
Nov 29 10:00:28 <lcuk> then recovery left me with no energy
Nov 29 10:00:30 <Stskeeps> but the momentum is there atm
Nov 29 10:01:07 <lcuk> you have changed the packaging thing havent you
Nov 29 10:01:22 <lcuk> to the bzr thing?
Nov 29 10:01:45 <Stskeeps> well, it's just where i'm storing my branches right now
Nov 29 10:01:55 <Stskeeps> it's a distributed source control system
Nov 29 10:02:21 <Stskeeps> anyone can take my branches and merge new changes from upstream maemo, or i can merge from their branches
Nov 29 10:02:26 <Stskeeps> (.. except for some tainted branches)
Nov 29 10:03:19 <Stskeeps> git has no "easy" contribution so
Nov 29 10:03:39 <lcuk> ok, so lets say i have a game in ubuntu, that will be a .deb and .tar.gz wont it?
Nov 29 10:04:42 <Stskeeps> well, most people publish their source in some kind of SVN/CVS/etc. then to package this, a packager could branch their svn, add on packaging information, and then publish this branch
Nov 29 10:05:04 <Stskeeps> then when a new release comes on, the packager can pull new patches from the original source
Nov 29 10:05:20 <Stskeeps> if someone want to contribute to this package/source, they can branch the package and publish their changes
Nov 29 10:05:26 <Stskeeps> and the initial packager can merge in their changes
Nov 29 10:05:30 <Stskeeps> (accepting patch)
Nov 29 10:06:11 <lcuk> ok, so bzr is an alternative to git and svn
Nov 29 10:06:14 <Stskeeps> yeah
Nov 29 10:06:20 <Stskeeps> svn isn't distributed though, it's centrally stored
Nov 29 10:06:26 <Stskeeps> git is like bzr
Nov 29 10:06:55 <Stskeeps> bzr can branch off git and svn
Nov 29 10:07:49 <lcuk> which communities use bsr and know how it works etc
Nov 29 10:08:32 <slonopotamus> lots of projects on launchpad, i guess
Nov 29 10:08:38 <slonopotamus> use bzr
Nov 29 10:08:50 <Stskeeps> launchpad is a stronghold in ubuntu world (bzr), git seems to have a stronghold in maemo upstream
Nov 29 10:09:49 <Stskeeps> but bzr+launchpad makes it easier for community to join in i guess
Nov 29 10:10:31 <lcuk> im just thinking where we should be looking for outside people to get involved
Nov 29 10:10:48 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 29 10:11:02 <Stskeeps> well i do think there's quite a lot of inkept force in the maemo community
Nov 29 10:11:08 <lcuk> if they are already happy with bzr and its simple for them to push their code in
Nov 29 10:11:34 <lcuk> there is, but theres not been much noise about bzr ever in chan
Nov 29 10:11:54 <slonopotamus> bzr is good because easily runs on tablet
Nov 29 10:12:00 <Stskeeps> git doesn't?
Nov 29 10:12:14 <slonopotamus> easily - no
Nov 29 10:12:23 <Stskeeps> interesting
Nov 29 10:12:25 <slonopotamus> someone needs to package it
Nov 29 10:12:28 <lcuk> only cos its not built - i have used it on my tablet
Nov 29 10:12:34 <slonopotamus> it needs compiling
Nov 29 10:12:39 <qwerty12> git is in extras is it not?
Nov 29 10:12:46 <slonopotamus> nope
Nov 29 10:12:51 <slonopotamus> hm
Nov 29 10:12:56 <slonopotamus> not sure
Nov 29 10:13:01 <qwerty12> Oh, it's in extras-devel
Nov 29 10:13:08 <qwerty12> http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/g/git-core/
Nov 29 10:13:34 <lcuk> i didnt build it though, it was david, ummm oh crap his nick has vanished
Nov 29 10:13:39 <Stskeeps> lcuk: let's say someone wants to add a patch to a Mer package, it is a matter of .. bzr branch lp:~someoneelse/m-r/packagename, cd packagename, do your changes, bzr commit -m "what i did", bzr push lp:~yourusername/m-r/packagename-patch
Nov 29 10:13:42 <lcuk> david greaves..
Nov 29 10:13:46 <qwerty12> lbt
Nov 29 10:13:52 <lcuk> thats the one :D
Nov 29 10:13:58 <slonopotamus> then i take my words back ;)
Nov 29 10:14:21 <slonopotamus> it wasn't there when i was searching for dvcs for tablet
Nov 29 10:15:20 <qwerty12> Well, they've been there since July ;)
Nov 29 10:16:50 <lcuk> :O oh ship
Nov 29 10:20:00 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: so, what should a cross-hw platform DSME do?
Nov 29 10:21:16 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, if I had an inkling, I'd happily tell you but I do not :). My [slight] interest with dsme goes as far as CAL. I don't know much about DSME to give you ideas
Nov 29 10:22:38 <lcuk> im gonna go n have a *fierce* shower
Nov 29 10:23:29 <jaska> superheated steam?
Nov 29 10:25:03 <lcuk> omap3 powershower
Nov 29 10:26:00 <lcuk> bbl
Nov 29 10:26:17 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: k
Nov 29 10:29:42 <`Mace> hm
Nov 29 10:29:51 <`Mace> anybody know of good burning software for osx?
Nov 29 10:29:55 <`Mace> something like nero? :)
Nov 29 10:35:47 <slonopotamus> man, this is linux-geeks channel ;)
Nov 29 10:36:22 <slonopotamus> compile k3b ;)
Nov 29 10:37:59 <`Mace> heh
Nov 29 10:38:08 <`Mace> wow osx burning software fucking sucks
Nov 29 10:38:21 <`Mace> wonder if darwin ports has k3b
Nov 29 11:19:09 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: how's gentoo on tablet doing btw?
Nov 29 11:19:59 <slonopotamus> bad
Nov 29 11:20:08 <slonopotamus> 1. very old kernel
Nov 29 11:20:28 <slonopotamus> i hit http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=462677
Nov 29 11:20:45 <slonopotamus> so i can't use oabi stage
Nov 29 11:21:02 <Stskeeps> OABI? why not EABI?
Nov 29 11:21:34 <slonopotamus> i wanted take oabi stage and recomple into eabi
Nov 29 11:21:42 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 29 11:21:47 <slonopotamus> there are no ready eabi stages
Nov 29 11:22:08 <slonopotamus> trying to make one via crosscompiling
Nov 29 11:22:27 <suihkulokki> slonopotamus: the patch for that is trivial
Nov 29 11:22:41 <slonopotamus> hit http://bugs.gentoo.org/239110
Nov 29 11:23:13 <slonopotamus> i'm not brave enough yet to compile custom kernel for tablet :)
Nov 29 11:23:40 <Stskeeps> it's pretty simple :P reflashing is always possible
Nov 29 11:24:04 <qwerty12> slonopotamus, you are replacing the os and you're telling me that you can't recompile the kernel?! :P :)
Nov 29 11:24:27 <slonopotamus> i can, i do that often on desktop :)
Nov 29 11:25:31 <slonopotamus> anyway, i have 2 ways and two roadblocks.
Nov 29 11:25:42 <qwerty12> Hehe, I don't doubt that you can; it just strikes me as odd because you don't even have to flash a kernel if you wish, the N8x0 has the ability to boot a kernel without flashing
Nov 29 11:26:45 <slonopotamus> oabi stage is very slow, btw
Nov 29 11:27:03 <slonopotamus> i guess it was built with softfp
Nov 29 11:28:03 <slonopotamus> and if i say very slow, it really means VERY slow
Nov 29 11:28:36 <slonopotamus> cross-compiled stuff is fast, btw
Nov 29 11:28:39 <suihkulokki> slonopotamus: slow doing what?
Nov 29 11:28:49 <slonopotamus> doing everything
Nov 29 11:28:53 <slonopotamus> ;)
Nov 29 11:29:04 <suihkulokki> well everything doesn't use FP :)
Nov 29 11:29:31 <suihkulokki> since you are talking about stages
Nov 29 11:29:51 <suihkulokki> I presume you see slow compiling
Nov 29 11:29:53 <slonopotamus> maybe because it was built without any cpu-specific optimizations, for generic arm
Nov 29 11:30:18 <lcuk> what system are you sat inside on the device whilst doing the compilation
Nov 29 11:30:32 <lcuk> ie: default maemo or some raw root build system?
Nov 29 11:30:40 <slonopotamus> itos
Nov 29 11:31:00 <slonopotamus> anyway
Nov 29 11:31:02 <suihkulokki> slonopotamus: I think you are just low on RAM (and RAM bandwidth)
Nov 29 11:31:06 <lcuk> in that case, compilation using default "ondemand" setting is about 5x slower than in performance
Nov 29 11:31:13 <slonopotamus> hmm
Nov 29 11:31:29 <slonopotamus> lcuk, will look at it
Nov 29 11:31:34 <lcuk> i notice it - liqbase takes over 10 minutes to build in ondemand and about 3 minutes in performance
Nov 29 11:31:47 <AStorm> because up_threshold is too high
Nov 29 11:31:48 <lcuk> i never counted the ondemand one - i just kick myself whenever i notice
Nov 29 11:32:09 <AStorm> fixable with one write to sysfs
Nov 29 11:32:16 <suihkulokki> AStorm: is there a bug about that ?
Nov 29 11:32:26 <AStorm> Nokia should do that :)
Nov 29 11:32:28 <lcuk> most users dont compile
Nov 29 11:32:32 <lcuk> its not worth a bug
Nov 29 11:32:33 <AStorm> suihkulokki, not yet
Nov 29 11:32:38 <AStorm> nah, it is
Nov 29 11:32:43 <slonopotamus> i have many ways to go. take python from itos and symlink it to /usr/bin/python, for example
Nov 29 11:32:45 <AStorm> it helps performance all around
Nov 29 11:32:51 <lcuk> yeah astorm i know that
Nov 29 11:32:59 <lcuk> i stressed lots during this year
Nov 29 11:33:00 <slonopotamus> or build python inside my chroot by hand
Nov 29 11:33:05 <AStorm> with neglible cost in power usage :)
Nov 29 11:33:06 <suihkulokki> it would be interesting to see if/how it affects battery life
Nov 29 11:33:09 <slonopotamus> i.e. without portage
Nov 29 11:33:18 <lcuk> AStorm, uh huh, i live in performance now
Nov 29 11:33:23 <AStorm> (if powersave_bias is on)
Nov 29 11:33:39 <AStorm> performance eats battery much faster
Nov 29 11:33:41 <slonopotamus> or hack'n'patch kernel
Nov 29 11:33:44 <AStorm> not worth it
Nov 29 11:33:51 <slonopotamus> so oabi chroot works
Nov 29 11:33:57 <AStorm> slonopotamus, trying to put gentoo too?
Nov 29 11:34:03 <AStorm> :D
Nov 29 11:34:04 <slonopotamus> hm
Nov 29 11:34:09 <slonopotamus> you too?
Nov 29 11:34:10 <lcuk> i dont notice that astorm, but then again - a bad leaky process somewhere would leak faster in performance than in ondemand
Nov 29 11:34:31 <AStorm> hm
Nov 29 11:34:51 <AStorm> slonopotamus, I have that on agenda
Nov 29 11:34:54 <lcuk> sorry, not leaky - i meant busy
Nov 29 11:34:58 <AStorm> no time right now
Nov 29 11:35:05 <AStorm> yes
Nov 29 11:35:11 <slonopotamus> astorm, nosocomia blog - yours?
Nov 29 11:35:14 <AStorm> esp. transient processes
Nov 29 11:35:17 <AStorm> no
Nov 29 11:35:31 <AStorm> I don't blog (yet?)
Nov 29 11:36:02 <slonopotamus> have you tried anything yet?
Nov 29 11:36:23 <AStorm> anytzhing as in kernel replacement
Nov 29 11:36:35 <AStorm> and crossing
Nov 29 11:37:01 <AStorm> I also built stuff on nit itself using codesourcery toolchain
Nov 29 11:37:27 <slonopotamus> got fully-functional gentoo chroot?
Nov 29 11:37:45 <AStorm> no, that's the "on agenda" part
Nov 29 11:37:55 <AStorm> not that it would be any hard
Nov 29 11:38:08 <AStorm> gcc and python built nicely (cross)
Nov 29 11:38:15 <slonopotamus> how???
Nov 29 11:38:34 <AStorm> crossdev
Nov 29 11:38:40 <slonopotamus> didn't you hit http://bugs.gentoo.org/239110
Nov 29 11:38:41 <slonopotamus> ?
Nov 29 11:39:48 <slonopotamus> that's the only trouble for me to get fully-functional chroot
Nov 29 11:39:56 <AStorm> ahh
Nov 29 11:40:02 <AStorm> I did stable
Nov 29 11:40:19 <slonopotamus> that is stable
Nov 29 11:40:21 <AStorm> anyway, disabling the test is simple if you have to
Nov 29 11:40:28 <AStorm> as of recently
Nov 29 11:41:04 <AStorm> I did 2.4.something
Nov 29 11:41:12 <slonopotamus> k
Nov 29 11:42:01 <AStorm> anyway, it should be possible to bypass the test with config.cache or what was it
Nov 29 11:42:07 <slonopotamus> so that should be enough for chroot
Nov 29 11:42:10 <AStorm> CLFS has hacks for these
Nov 29 11:42:32 <slonopotamus> crossdev-wrappers too
Nov 29 11:42:38 <slonopotamus> config.site
Nov 29 11:42:48 <AStorm> yes
Nov 29 11:43:06 <slonopotamus> came across crossdev-wrappers only this week :(
Nov 29 11:44:15 <slonopotamus> next step will be to flash the most fanoush initfs
Nov 29 11:44:33 <slonopotamus> the one that supports linuxrc on partition
Nov 29 11:44:33 <AStorm> ehh?
Nov 29 11:44:38 <AStorm> build your own
Nov 29 11:44:56 <AStorm> you only need two apps from it
Nov 29 11:45:08 <AStorm> one to update the screen
Nov 29 11:45:47 <slonopotamus> don't want to depend on custom kernel/initfs
Nov 29 11:45:57 <AStorm> hm?
Nov 29 11:46:39 <slonopotamus> https://garage.maemo.org/projects/bootmenu/
Nov 29 11:46:41 <AStorm> why should you? initfs is actually superfluous
Nov 29 11:46:49 <slonopotamus> that will be enough
Nov 29 11:46:56 <AStorm> yes, bootmenu is a nice hack
Nov 29 11:47:09 <slonopotamus> it will just call linuxrc on gentoo partition
Nov 29 11:47:15 <AStorm> esp. important is that screen updater and text output
Nov 29 11:47:41 <AStorm> but then, if you build a custom kernel, you can change the default for auto screen updates
Nov 29 11:48:00 <Stskeeps> .. and remember to let X switch it back so you do manual updates, or performance is horrid :P
Nov 29 11:48:05 <slonopotamus> auto screen updates - ?
Nov 29 11:48:12 <slonopotamus> ah
Nov 29 11:48:29 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: framebuffer console doesn't automatically refresh the screen, so
Nov 29 11:48:50 <slonopotamus> custom kernel = need to hack'n'patch each time nokia updates it
Nov 29 11:49:04 <AStorm> no
Nov 29 11:49:05 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: nokia seems to be moving towards git so it might be easier
Nov 29 11:49:07 <slonopotamus> i'm too lazy for that ;)
Nov 29 11:49:11 <AStorm> just use linux-omap tgree
Nov 29 11:49:13 <AStorm> tree
Nov 29 11:49:18 <AStorm> should work now
Nov 29 11:49:32 <AStorm> for wifi, you have to grab new driver
Nov 29 11:49:33 <slonopotamus> ok, need to reflash/recompile each time
Nov 29 11:49:58 <AStorm> ah, and you must get Xomap built against new kernel headers
Nov 29 11:51:09 <slonopotamus> Xomap.  have you tried googling for it? it almost doesn't exist ;)
Nov 29 11:51:26 <AStorm> it is in the source repo
Nov 29 11:51:35 <Stskeeps> AStorm: xserver-xorg-video-omapfb exists now
Nov 29 11:51:41 <AStorm> yay
Nov 29 11:51:43 <AStorm> news
Nov 29 11:51:46 <AStorm> :)
Nov 29 11:51:50 <slonopotamus> hm
Nov 29 11:52:49 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, so just vanilla xorg + xserver-xorg-video-omapfb?
Nov 29 11:52:59 <Stskeeps> aye
Nov 29 11:53:11 <Stskeeps> that's what we're using in Mer, atleast
Nov 29 11:53:18 * Stskeeps tries to get SB2 going.
Nov 29 11:53:22 <AStorm> Mer?
Nov 29 11:53:25 <slonopotamus> good
Nov 29 11:53:41 <slonopotamus> Mer? no more deblet? :)
Nov 29 11:53:48 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 29 11:53:58 <slonopotamus> morning
Nov 29 11:54:20 <Stskeeps> AStorm: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed , http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint , http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i/ (last one has a section that explains it briefly)
Nov 29 11:54:21 <slonopotamus> ok. forget Xomap.
Nov 29 11:54:37 <lcuk> mornin jaffa
Nov 29 11:54:42 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: yeah, .. desktop/server distributions has issues on tablets, power consumption, mer is successor to deblet
Nov 29 11:54:47 <Stskeeps> and has a lot more potential
Nov 29 11:55:08 <lcuk> jaffa, i heard the a team music when you posted your stop moaning and make a plan yesterday
Nov 29 11:55:17 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, good. do you believe in os2009 on n8x0?
Nov 29 11:55:30 * lcuk does
Nov 29 11:55:31 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: we'll know more after december
Nov 29 11:55:35 <slonopotamus> i don't
Nov 29 11:55:52 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: in any case, Mer is a way to move Maemo into community hands
Nov 29 11:56:15 <Stskeeps> (Mer is not supposed to be "just hildon" though)
Nov 29 11:56:20 <Jaffa> lcuk: gotta keep the electorate on side ;-)
Nov 29 11:56:34 <Stskeeps> lcuk: stop moaning and start helping out? :P
Nov 29 11:56:42 <lcuk> jaffa, no qualms at all - i just wonder which a team member you want to be :P
Nov 29 11:57:16 <lcuk> since you got the train and ferry across europe instead of being normal and flying i think you should be B.A
Nov 29 11:57:39 <Jaffa> lcuk: Heh :)
Nov 29 11:58:54 <lcuk> don't tell gan but he can be murdock ;)
Nov 29 11:59:15 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: and nokia is actually doing quite a nice thing for Fremantle-HE if the sdk is 100% oss
Nov 29 11:59:47 <slonopotamus> i didn't say anything bad about freemantle ;)
Nov 29 12:00:19 <Jaffa> lcuk: Unstable, but comical and always there in the middle of things? ;-)
Nov 29 12:00:33 <lcuk> :D
Nov 29 12:02:00 <lcuk> ummmm printf in c, how do i format as 0.000?  first time ive tried to do stuff with floats i think
Nov 29 12:02:55 <Jaffa> lcuk: something like %.3d IIRC
Nov 29 12:03:43 * slonopotamus doesn't believe in binary-based distros
Nov 29 12:04:48 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: meh, if you want user to have a image on hw.. :P
Nov 29 12:04:56 <lcuk> its ok
Nov 29 12:05:00 <lcuk> im a stupid twonk
Nov 29 12:05:21 <lcuk> i had a lovely calcaspect() function which did everything internal in float, then returned result as an int
Nov 29 12:05:25 * lcuk facepalms
Nov 29 12:05:32 <AStorm> hehe
Nov 29 12:05:34 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: in any case some of the principles are useful in any kind of tablet stuff
Nov 29 12:06:38 <lcuk> \o/ yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Nov 29 12:07:19 * Stskeeps grrs at sb2
Nov 29 12:08:35 <AStorm> sb is a broken thing :)
Nov 29 12:08:52 <Stskeeps> sb2 is a little more sane but it doesn't sing by my tune just yet
Nov 29 12:09:42 <Stskeeps> AStorm: if you're interested in system arch / design, you're more than welcome to join in on #reconstructedPOC on jaiku , or contribute to the proposals.. this stuff might actually go somewhere :P
Nov 29 12:17:06 * lcuk is pleased with his handwriting
Nov 29 12:21:42 <lcuk> hiya housetier, hows the c-base holding up in the cold? :D
Nov 29 12:22:55 <housetier> hello there :)
Nov 29 12:24:05 <housetier> it's holding up quite well actually. we are refurbishing it this week: fresh paint all over the place, new furniture at the bar, new hardware in the server room
Nov 29 12:24:18 <housetier> its busy, although only very few people actually do work
Nov 29 12:26:01 <lcuk> heh, stop giving the others beer unless they help out
Nov 29 12:26:45 <housetier> during "Bauwoche" (building week) every present member has to work or to leave
Nov 29 12:27:17 <lcuk> all i can say is if I were in Berlin I wouldv come down to help :)
Nov 29 12:29:07 <housetier> :)
Nov 29 12:51:26 <lcuk> why cant my code code itself
Nov 29 12:51:54 <lcuk> "ummm computer, hello computer, make me a program"
Nov 29 12:54:16 <beav1s> lcuk: i thought windows does. but not that good ;)
Nov 29 12:55:02 <lcuk> heh beav1s, yeah, the point was to hav e working code
Nov 29 12:55:25 <beav1s> something like "hello computer, hee...pokpokpok...answering-->bluescreen
Nov 29 12:55:41 <beav1s> agreed ;)
Nov 29 12:56:18 <lcuk> ahhh well, i suppose ill just carry on thinking about interfaces and interactions and hopefully something pretty will come of it
Nov 29 12:56:56 <beav1s> *thumbs*
Nov 29 13:08:23 <mikkov_> fiferboy: new version of boost is now there
Nov 29 13:09:28 * qwerty12_N800 curses at having to set SDL_VIDEO_X11_WMCLASS
Nov 29 13:16:08 <lcuk> YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!! i have a usb for my n800
Nov 29 13:16:34 <qwerty12_N800> hehe, congrats :P
Nov 29 13:17:53 <Stskeeps> wuubwubwubwub.
Nov 29 13:18:32 * lcuk almost dropped it 
Nov 29 13:18:53 <lcuk> that wouldv been just fecking typical
Nov 29 13:19:22 <GAN800> Why is Modest's quoting so weird?
Nov 29 13:19:44 <lcuk> i dont know, why is modest's quoting so weird?
Nov 29 13:19:52 <GAN800> Who said 'let's do it contrary to every other email client'. . . .
Nov 29 13:20:45 <lcuk> worst case scenario, if i charge device whilst flashing will i just have to wait till its charged to try again?
Nov 29 13:20:47 <Jaffa> Apparently it's in "the spec"
Nov 29 13:20:59 * Jaffa moaned about it early on and was told "meh" via Bugzilla
Nov 29 13:21:03 <lcuk> all heal the spec
Nov 29 13:21:07 <lcuk> hail even
Nov 29 13:21:26 <lcuk> though thats quite freudian
Nov 29 13:21:49 <GAN800> maybe if somebody writes a patch. . .
Nov 29 13:22:11 <GAN800> Though you can always tell Modest users.
Nov 29 13:22:11 <lcuk> but whats wrong with it
Nov 29 13:22:22 <GAN800> It's shit
Nov 29 13:22:34 <lcuk> dunno, never used it
Nov 29 13:22:36 <GAN800> it seemingly doesn't actually quote.
Nov 29 13:22:55 <Jaffa> No attribution, signature in wrong place, sig sep trimmed (that's a fun one)
Nov 29 13:23:01 <GAN800> Just adds an 'original message' header
Nov 29 13:23:19 <Jaffa> Unchangeable font in the composition window => not being able to be sure of 72 char line width
Nov 29 13:23:23 <lcuk> ooooh my computer found my nokia
Nov 29 13:32:42 <lcuk> bah! ill try again once its fully fully charged, damn thing wont connect to nokia updater
Nov 29 13:41:25 <GAN800> lcuk, you can't charge and flash at the same time.
Nov 29 13:41:56 <lcuk> i wasnt trying to, it was showing 1hour - i shut it off totally wtihout charger in (i popped battery then afterwards)
Nov 29 13:42:24 <lcuk> i connected to usb, pressed home and turned on.  i got the usb icon, but the updater couldnt find it.
Nov 29 13:42:44 <lcuk> this was from the same usb port that a couple of minutes before detected n800 in disk mode
Nov 29 13:43:03 <lcuk> ill try again after its had a bit longer charge
Nov 29 14:13:24 <slonopotamus>  
Nov 29 14:13:32 <qwerty12_N800>   
Nov 29 14:13:34 <johnx>  ?
Nov 29 14:13:39 <qwerty12_N800> ???
Nov 29 14:13:47 <Stskeeps> .. ?
Nov 29 14:13:47 <johnx> !!!
Nov 29 14:13:53 <qwerty12_N800> !?!?!?
Nov 29 14:14:07 <johnx> OMGWTFBUS
Nov 29 14:14:09 <slonopotamus> o_O
Nov 29 14:14:17 <qwerty12_N800> 0000_oooo
Nov 29 14:14:27 <slonopotamus> thx
Nov 29 14:14:39 <slonopotamus> just checked if i'm online
Nov 29 14:14:43 <Stskeeps> it's officially boring day of the week
Nov 29 14:14:43 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 29 14:15:09 <johnx> <- drunk o'clock here
Nov 29 14:15:14 <johnx> but I'm in the future :)
Nov 29 14:15:37 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 29 14:15:45 * Stskeeps is coding up a saner builder
Nov 29 14:16:06 <slonopotamus> hehe
Nov 29 14:16:11 * johnx had to get drunk before he could consider the sapwood / gtk+ problem again
Nov 29 14:16:17 <slonopotamus> poor binary guy
Nov 29 14:16:49 <slonopotamus> btw
Nov 29 14:16:50 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: we actually compile our own stuff :P
Nov 29 14:17:04 <slonopotamus> wtf is hildon?
Nov 29 14:17:04 * lcuk is saning up a code builder
Nov 29 14:17:06 <slonopotamus> ;)
Nov 29 14:17:19 <lcuk> its where you stay if you cant afford the hilton
Nov 29 14:17:20 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: hildon is the user interface you see on nokia tablets :P
Nov 29 14:17:40 <slonopotamus> tray + menubar?
Nov 29 14:17:49 <slonopotamus> and desktop?
Nov 29 14:17:55 <GAN800> Nokia IPs in the wikipedia edit history are ridiculously easy to spot.
Nov 29 14:17:56 <johnx> hildon-desktop is that yes
Nov 29 14:17:57 <Stskeeps> yeah, and some extra stuff, api wise
Nov 29 14:18:16 <johnx> libhildon is what the apps use to give them that maemo-y look
Nov 29 14:18:35 <qwerty12_N800> autobuilder's i386 building requirement is annoying. I'm tempted to shove a few "|| true"'s to force it to carry on even if building for i386
Nov 29 14:18:36 <GAN800> slonopotamus, try wikipedia. ;)
Nov 29 14:18:44 <slonopotamus> hmm. aren't there skins in gtk?
Nov 29 14:19:13 <slonopotamus> why to link apps against this strange thing?
Nov 29 14:19:13 <johnx> yes, gtk has themes, but hildon goes beyond that in some ways
Nov 29 14:19:28 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: also it helps with power consumption
Nov 29 14:19:42 <johnx> hmm? hildon is related to power consumtion?
Nov 29 14:20:02 <slonopotamus> menubar with power saving features
Nov 29 14:20:06 <slonopotamus> wtf
Nov 29 14:20:19 <Stskeeps> johnx: .. the thing about hibernation maybe
Nov 29 14:20:23 <GAN800> wiki
Nov 29 14:20:31 <Stskeeps> or was that libosso
Nov 29 14:20:40 <qwerty12_N800> yep, libosso
Nov 29 14:20:43 <GAN800> libosso
Nov 29 14:20:50 <slonopotamus> hehe
Nov 29 14:21:15 <slonopotamus> lib with support for opensource ;)
Nov 29 14:22:17 <slonopotamus> i haven't heard kde required linking against kwin
Nov 29 14:22:31 <slonopotamus> link against qt - and be happy
Nov 29 14:22:43 <johnx> that's kind of unrelated
Nov 29 14:23:01 <johnx> the maemo window manager is actually matchbox
Nov 29 14:23:16 <qwerty12_N800> you aren't forced to link against hildon libraries either
Nov 29 14:23:28 <slonopotamus> ok, not kwin but kde menubar
Nov 29 14:23:42 <johnx> there's just a lot of things named hildon :)
Nov 29 14:23:43 <slonopotamus> hmm
Nov 29 14:23:43 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: ok, libhildon != hildon desktop
Nov 29 14:23:44 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 29 14:23:46 <woglinde> hi
Nov 29 14:23:59 <GAN800> slonopotamus, wikipedia
Nov 29 14:24:54 <slonopotamus> GAN800, i'm just kidding. all this hildonizing looks seams like a wrong thing
Nov 29 14:25:20 <johnx> that's nice. many of the people who understand what it is disagree, but thanks for your input
Nov 29 14:25:29 <GAN800> Ubuntu Mobile and Moblin both use Hildon.
Nov 29 14:25:29 <qwerty12_N800> hah
Nov 29 14:25:38 <slonopotamus> like 'wanna use fluxbox? please, go and hack your app so it is fluxboxed'
Nov 29 14:25:59 <johnx> that's different and you know it
Nov 29 14:26:20 * Stskeeps passes a vodka bottle over the bar desk for johnx
Nov 29 14:26:28 <johnx> heh
Nov 29 14:26:45 <johnx> got plenty here :)
Nov 29 14:26:51 * Stskeeps could really need vodka today. 
Nov 29 14:27:06 <Stskeeps> still some hours left till i can justify switching to hard liqour
Nov 29 14:27:06 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 29 14:27:15 <johnx> come over and I'll get you fixed up with whatever I can find
Nov 29 14:27:21 <GAN800> Google has new buttons in the search results today. . . .
Nov 29 14:27:28 <konttori_> slonopotamus: really, the point is that on a mobile device you have so much less space, that in order for the app to be useful, you'd anyway have to modify it to fit to such a small screen
Nov 29 14:27:42 <konttori_> but, I agree that normal gtk windows should behave correctly anyway.
Nov 29 14:27:59 <johnx> GAN800, not seeing them. what are they?
Nov 29 14:28:13 <slonopotamus> and so what? pass different deffault settings to gtk widgets
Nov 29 14:28:18 <lcuk> having the default tools available is better, even if you have to redraw and modify the experience to suit the display and interaction
Nov 29 14:28:19 <qwerty12_N800> wiki stuff. i've had them for a while.
Nov 29 14:28:41 <GAN800> johnx, flp the minimize arrow on our toolbar and it looks exactly like that.
Nov 29 14:28:59 <GAN800> the arrow and the x
Nov 29 14:29:08 <GAN800> next to wach result
Nov 29 14:29:40 <GAN800> SearchWiki
Nov 29 14:30:06 <johnx> interesting. I'm not seeing them yet
Nov 29 14:30:57 <Stskeeps> using .com or .jp?
Nov 29 14:31:32 <johnx> .com
Nov 29 14:31:46 <slonopotamus> 'if you don't hildonize your app, menubar will apear wrong'. damn, it's window manager job to place window correctly and to draw window decorations
Nov 29 14:31:58 <johnx> uhm no?
Nov 29 14:32:03 <johnx> the menubar is part of the app
Nov 29 14:32:06 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: a menu isn't a window decoration though
Nov 29 14:32:59 <lcuk> technically, the app should define the palette of options along with priorities, an ideal interface would then display that palette as required
Nov 29 14:34:15 <slonopotamus> i'm not very good with gtk but i didn't find any reasons why hildon must be so intrusive
Nov 29 14:35:47 <qwerty12_N800> Look at the screen space we have available. An hildonized menu takes up less space than a standard gtkmenubar on the tablets.
Nov 29 14:36:26 <johnx> hildon also supplies a more touchscreen-oriented open/save dialog and some other stuff
Nov 29 14:36:42 <slonopotamus> hehe
Nov 29 14:37:02 <slonopotamus> please select /etc/passwd in your friendly file chooser
Nov 29 14:37:13 <johnx> yeah, you can't
Nov 29 14:37:22 <johnx> for a consumer device, that's a "good thing" (tm)
Nov 29 14:37:48 <slonopotamus> for a geek device, this is a useless file chooser
Nov 29 14:37:58 <Stskeeps> make a patch then
Nov 29 14:38:04 <GAN800> Nokia's goal isn't a 'geek device'
Nov 29 14:38:10 <Stskeeps> "Full file system"
Nov 29 14:38:10 <slonopotamus> is it opensource?
Nov 29 14:38:10 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 29 14:38:12 <Stskeeps> yes it is
Nov 29 14:38:14 <Jaffa> slonopotamus: there's no good technical reason why Hildon is so intrusive. Nokia didn't want to maintain a fork, so the behaviour of existing widgets is largely unchanged, and you have to use different widgets to get the behaviour that a device owner expects.
Nov 29 14:38:28 <johnx> it's funny but I rarely feel like editing /etc/passwd from a GUI app and guess what, I'm definitely a geek
Nov 29 14:39:18 <johnx> I know how to work on cars but I also don't feel like having the fuse box exposed all the time
Nov 29 14:39:48 <GAN800> johnx, I really don't understand it either.
Nov 29 14:40:03 <slonopotamus> Jaffa, that's what i thought. 'let's make quick hack, so we don't have problems. community will have, but who cares'
Nov 29 14:40:04 <GAN800> if I want to dig in deep I open xterm or ssh in.
Nov 29 14:40:41 <GAN800> The 'quick hack' seems to be acceptable for Ubuntu
Nov 29 14:41:04 <slonopotamus> Ubuntu is a quick hack :)
Nov 29 14:41:37 <slonopotamus> they patch a lot, but don't send upstream
Nov 29 14:41:40 <Jaffa> slonopotamus: It's not a "quick hack" solution - it's a "we don't want to lose any benefit of staying close to upstream, and want to ensure our development benefits upstream too". I can understand it. I don't /agree/ with it, but it makes some sense.
Nov 29 14:42:37 <slonopotamus> Jaffa, makes, yes
Nov 29 14:43:36 <slonopotamus> Jaffa, bug from app developer POV it's ugly
Nov 29 14:43:38 <konttori_> does anyone know how to install ogg support to diablo?
Nov 29 14:43:40 <slonopotamus> but
Nov 29 14:43:49 <konttori_> the ogg-support package is missing from repos
Nov 29 14:44:06 <kulve> konttori_: it's on my repo, not in the extras(-devel)
Nov 29 14:44:18 <Jaffa> slonopotamus: agreed entirely. Qt & SWT toolkits for Maemo go the other way, and at the Summit Nokia were talking about making the default controls more finger friendly.
Nov 29 14:44:21 <kulve> konttori_: the single click install is available in the maemo.org/downloads
Nov 29 14:45:12 <konttori_> ok. thanks. I just cannot then add the dependency to ukmp.
Nov 29 14:45:35 <slonopotamus> Jaffa, good. it definitely should be easier to tweak 1 lib then each app based on that lib
Nov 29 14:45:40 <lcuk> kulve, any reason why not pushed to extras?
Nov 29 14:45:53 <konttori_> would this work: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ivorbis
Nov 29 14:46:02 <konttori_> That is in extras devel
Nov 29 14:46:46 <Jaffa> slonopotamus: A lot of this could be done upstream as well, e.g. some kind of GtkMenuProvider interface, which Hildon could provide. Would also help with ROX & OS X-inspired Gtk+ based desktops.
Nov 29 14:48:21 <slonopotamus> Jaffa, good ;) is browserd looks crazy only to me? ;)
Nov 29 14:48:34 <johnx> yeah, that's just crazy
Nov 29 14:48:37 <johnx> agreed there
Nov 29 14:49:24 <slonopotamus> johnx, maybe it has some smart reason?
Nov 29 14:50:02 <johnx> something about fast startup by having the browser cached in memory
Nov 29 14:50:31 <slonopotamus> i close my browser, i have few free ram. but no, this damn thing sits there and eats my precious ram
Nov 29 14:50:34 <konttori_> it's also about browser stability and ability to serve web runtime home applets
Nov 29 14:50:42 <GAN800> and memory savings when other applications use it
Nov 29 14:50:56 <slonopotamus> GAN800, uh?
Nov 29 14:51:03 <Jaffa> slonopotamus: why do you care about your RAM when an app doesn't need it?
Nov 29 14:51:03 <slonopotamus> GAN800, gimme an exa,ple
Nov 29 14:51:24 <slonopotamus> Jaffa, my other app needs it
Nov 29 14:51:29 <GAN800> konttori already did
Nov 29 14:51:32 <johnx> I think one common browser daemon serves anything that needs to use it
Nov 29 14:51:43 <slonopotamus> Jaffa, so i have to go and kill browserd
Nov 29 14:51:53 <GAN800> It's the same setup Chrome and IE8 use
Nov 29 14:51:55 <kulve> konttori_: some maemo people actually pushed at least most of my packages to extras-devel..
Nov 29 14:52:09 <GAN800> It's about 7MB in reality
Nov 29 14:52:14 <konttori_> ah. but not ogg-support
Nov 29 14:52:22 <slonopotamus> 7-12 i'd say
Nov 29 14:52:33 <lcuk> ok, a browser - a simple thing with not much happening under the hood to display a blank page: WTF takes it so long to get started
Nov 29 14:52:36 <slonopotamus> that's 6-10%
Nov 29 14:52:40 <Jaffa> GAN800: Not really - it's more the complete opposite of what IE8 & Chrome do :)
Nov 29 14:52:44 <konttori_> perhaps the same maemo guys could push also the ogg-support there
Nov 29 14:52:59 <kulve> lcuk: yes. I've taken the Nokia's source packages and changed the binary packages they produce. I don't want to push source package called X to extras-devel if Nokia already provide source package called X
Nov 29 14:53:25 <konttori_> lcuk: I agree. I cannot understand why browser is so slow to start
Nov 29 14:53:35 <slonopotamus> GAN800, you wanna say chrome runs demon even if i  cllose browser?
Nov 29 14:53:35 <lcuk> kulve, reasonable response, since its at source level, have you tried submitting a patch?
Nov 29 14:53:44 <kulve> lcuk: and because rumours say the maemo 5 will include ogg, I haven't bothered to rename the source packages
Nov 29 14:53:47 <lcuk> i cant understand why ANY program is slow to start
Nov 29 14:54:10 <woglinde> *g*
Nov 29 14:54:15 <konttori_> if app needs to read a lot of data files, that's a reason for slow start
Nov 29 14:54:23 <GAN800> Not really, I want to make myself a turkey sammich and stop arguing nonsense.
Nov 29 14:54:33 <lcuk> agreed, but most do incremental loading as required
Nov 29 14:54:36 <Stskeeps> mm turkey
Nov 29 14:54:38 <konttori_> however, for browser, that is clearly not the case
Nov 29 14:54:39 <woglinde> lcuk try a profile build and find out
Nov 29 14:54:52 <woglinde> where the most time is spended
Nov 29 14:54:58 <lcuk> not my bag
Nov 29 14:55:06 * Stskeeps could really need a good sandwich instead of pumpkin soup
Nov 29 14:55:06 <woglinde> hm is there oprofile for the tablets?
Nov 29 14:55:09 <lcuk> ill just reimplement something if it doesnt feel right for me
Nov 29 14:55:31 <lcuk> get it feeling right, then flesh it out
Nov 29 14:55:40 <qwerty12_N800> woglinde, yes, kernel, oprofile & oprofileui in sdk repo
Nov 29 14:56:11 <woglinde> qwerty hehe okay and did some one profile why it is so slow?
Nov 29 14:58:46 <qwerty12_N800> effing google's link tracking. takes the piss when you copy a link
Nov 29 14:59:01 <johnx> ...pumpkin soup actually sounds good, but pumpkin pie sounds better...
Nov 29 14:59:35 * GAN800 has got some key lime
Nov 29 14:59:54 <derf> Hah, only in Florida.
Nov 29 15:00:14 <GAN800> Best pie ever
Nov 29 15:00:22 * johnx misses key lime, but misses cheese cake even more
Nov 29 15:00:32 <derf> I do love me some key lime pie, but not for Thanksgiving.
Nov 29 15:00:52 * johnx lives in the future, did Thanksgiving last weekend
Nov 29 15:01:01 <GAN800> I had a slice of pumpkin and a slice of key lime for dessert on Thanksgiving. ;)
Nov 29 15:01:11 <derf> johnx: You don't live that far in the future.
Nov 29 15:02:53 <GAN800> Says the jealous man from the past. :p
Nov 29 15:03:25 <lopz> hi
Nov 29 15:09:42 <Stskeeps> would any of you pay for an major update to the base system of your n8x0s?
Nov 29 15:09:45 <Stskeeps> .. just curious
Nov 29 15:09:53 <glass_> hmmh
Nov 29 15:09:55 <glass_> probably not
Nov 29 15:10:06 <glass_> it would have to be pretty damn cool update
Nov 29 15:10:14 <Stskeeps> like, since we won't be buying new hw, how would nokia finance updates to old devices?
Nov 29 15:10:40 <glass_> they probably wouldn't
Nov 29 15:10:49 <glass_> bugfixes sure..
Nov 29 15:10:51 <Stskeeps> updates being the closed source parts/differentations that target our devices
Nov 29 15:10:56 <johnx> true open source followers are rather stingy :)
Nov 29 15:11:05 * qwerty12_N800 places £500 down  on the notion that they wouldn't
Nov 29 15:11:14 <lcuk> not really johnx, every single one of us here has stumped up x cash for our devices
Nov 29 15:11:24 <Jaffa> No one's ever had any success selling to end-users of Maemo devices, despite at least 3 people trying
Nov 29 15:11:28 <glass_> lcuk: not really
Nov 29 15:11:33 <Stskeeps> johnx: if i really had a go argumenting at a gnubie meetup, i'd end up being lynched..
Nov 29 15:11:36 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 29 15:11:45 <johnx> s/:)/when it comes to software :P/
Nov 29 15:11:46 <infobot> johnx meant: true open source followers are rather stingy when it comes to software :P
Nov 29 15:11:54 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: maybe cos the infrastructure isn't there for it
Nov 29 15:11:55 <lcuk> yes glass, i invested in open source when i purchased my device - its not like we are sitting around using existing hardware
Nov 29 15:12:15 * Stskeeps wouldn't mind an "app store", using paypal/micropayments, but without stingy rules
Nov 29 15:12:27 <glass_> lcuk: i would suspect that there are many guys on this channel who didn't pay themselfs for their device
Nov 29 15:12:34 * Stskeeps did.
Nov 29 15:12:39 <lcuk> then how did they get their first one
Nov 29 15:12:47 <glass_> the guys who do hired dev certainly haven't
Nov 29 15:12:48 <johnx> Stskeeps, hmm? lynched why?
Nov 29 15:12:50 <Stskeeps> (as in, i paid for my device.)
Nov 29 15:12:55 <glass_> lcuk: from work, from wherever project
Nov 29 15:12:57 <lcuk> i agree, my family has grown substantially since i came here - but i had to shell out for my first
Nov 29 15:13:08 <lcuk> glass_, then the company has paid
Nov 29 15:13:10 <lcuk> its not for free
Nov 29 15:13:11 <Stskeeps> johnx: me vs true open source fanatics wouldn't go down well :P
Nov 29 15:13:19 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: plenty of people made money through software before "App Store"s came along. If *most* apps are pay-for (even micro pay-for), you can expect some money. When it's only a small minority, users will turn their noses up
Nov 29 15:13:21 <glass_> lcuk: yes, but you said stumped up cash...
Nov 29 15:13:50 <lcuk> im sure the companies accountant paid with real cash
Nov 29 15:13:59 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: heh, opposite effect of critical mass.. before people refused to use open source cos not many people used it, and used propertiary solutions instead, .. and now it's reverse
Nov 29 15:14:00 <glass_> well, not necessarely either
Nov 29 15:14:07 <glass_> lcuk: nokia partners get devices without cash
Nov 29 15:15:03 <GAN800> I'd just buy the new hardware
Nov 29 15:15:06 <glass_> but anyways, firmware updates that cost are not nokias way so far
Nov 29 15:15:30 <GAN800> Nokia could never lock down a for-pay upgrade well enough
Nov 29 15:15:37 <Stskeeps> true
Nov 29 15:15:58 <Stskeeps> i think there might be some thought in bounties for getting something done
Nov 29 15:16:09 <Stskeeps> "backport modest fixes from fremantle"
Nov 29 15:16:21 <lcuk> thats a new app though isnt it
Nov 29 15:16:31 <johnx> it's funny how each platform projects a certain sentiment. linux = "open your code", windows = "nickle and dime for enverything", mac = "pay for good software"
Nov 29 15:16:36 <GAN800> I still think a community backport will be much more staightforward this time around
Nov 29 15:17:02 <lcuk> mmm i dont
Nov 29 15:17:15 <GAN800> and I bet you'll even be able to get some help from the Nokia HE people.
Nov 29 15:17:18 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, some want the mail app from chinook back :P
Nov 29 15:17:35 <johnx> well everything won't be backported of course
Nov 29 15:17:43 <GAN800> Either way, there's still a few SSUs to go.
Nov 29 15:17:47 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: i'm there
Nov 29 15:17:50 <johnx> but somehow I don't see them linking every single app against clutter :)
Nov 29 15:18:03 <Stskeeps> yeah, well, we will know soon what the nature of fremantle will be
Nov 29 15:18:34 <johnx> I am actually more curious/worried/excited than I have been in a long time about a new software release
Nov 29 15:19:03 <Stskeeps> hehe, join the club
Nov 29 15:19:12 <lcuk> im glad weve got options, one thing we must be able to do: run mer in n900
Nov 29 15:19:19 <Stskeeps> i'm wondering how many of my hopes will come up
Nov 29 15:19:35 <Stskeeps> lcuk: cos you're on the list for lead users? ;>
Nov 29 15:19:43 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, hehe, i don't think it would be hard to do so even if the chinook one is closed source (parts are afaik) but i don't use a mail client  on the n800 so it's not worth me investing time in it imo
Nov 29 15:19:44 <johnx> lcuk, now that would be interesting: competing against Nokia's current OS with a past version of their old OS :)
Nov 29 15:19:52 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: all source is in svn
Nov 29 15:19:55 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: afaik
Nov 29 15:20:13 <Jaffa> Anyone want to buy a 9 year old Ford Focus? http://bleb.org/photos/show.html?id=X9eGeYK ;-)
Nov 29 15:20:46 <RST38h> Hey, the steering wheel is WRONG!
Nov 29 15:20:47 <lcuk> johnx, well it wouldnt be competing - its open source, we have most of the os built now and people are kinda happy with it, if momentum builds we can give people that choice between a more standard OS and the (as I think it will be) user friendly bouncy apps (ala clutterified)
Nov 29 15:21:18 <johnx> RST38h, look right to me *shrugs*
Nov 29 15:21:25 <Jaffa> RST38h: :)
Nov 29 15:21:35 <lcuk> the extra power of the n900 WILL give it a real snappy feel and what people have been trying to do all year (running desktop apps) will come through quite easily
Nov 29 15:21:49 <RST38h> johnx: yours is supposed to have a little extra mirror though =)
Nov 29 15:22:00 <johnx> only SUVs AFAIK
Nov 29 15:22:18 <johnx> though a focus is kind of big for this country :)
Nov 29 15:22:43 <lcuk> Stskeeps, :D am i advanced?
Nov 29 15:22:52 <lcuk> ummm lead
Nov 29 15:23:41 <Stskeeps> lcuk: the marketing guy said you were :P
Nov 29 15:24:38 <RST38h> lcuk: I wouldn't be so expectant about that "real snappy feel"
Nov 29 15:25:09 <johnx> well they'll have plenty of power to play with for sure
Nov 29 15:25:24 <johnx> and ya'know a decent *working* bus to connect their LCD to
Nov 29 15:25:38 * Stskeeps has worries over gfx taking it out on battery power, but.. :P
Nov 29 15:25:44 <lcuk> i would, not only the extra actual horsepower, but the fact it wont have a backwards rgb framebuffer
Nov 29 15:26:22 * RST38h expects the end result to be pretty usable but probably not as snappy and fluid as everybody thinks
Nov 29 15:26:55 <lcuk> Stskeeps, i saw the nice fast 3d ui (which still seems somewhat unresponsive) and instantly thought: unintuitive but pretty and a mega battery killer
Nov 29 15:27:09 <RST38h> With main source of lag still being the Web (CSS rendering, JS, and Flash)
Nov 29 15:27:27 <lcuk> why
Nov 29 15:27:33 <GAN800> RST38h, have you played with OMAP3 yet?
Nov 29 15:28:15 <RST38h> GAN: Nope, didn't have a chance yet
Nov 29 15:28:27 <GAN800> Somebody ship him a Beagle
Nov 29 15:28:33 <RST38h> Seen the videos though (the ones discussed at itt)
Nov 29 15:28:57 <RST38h> GAN: For the last 2 weeks, I am trying to wrestle an STMP37xx board from the local customs
Nov 29 15:29:07 <Stskeeps> you were in russia or how was it, RST38h?
Nov 29 15:29:10 <lcuk> GAN800, a beagle really isnt good, its a circuit board with no onboard os, you have to become a ninja to install and test on it
Nov 29 15:29:13 <RST38h> GAN: So, my guess is, it will never make it here
Nov 29 15:29:33 <RST38h> Sts: Still am, right now
Nov 29 15:29:38 <lcuk> did you ever get yours working ?
Nov 29 15:29:47 <Stskeeps> RST38h: ah - then no chance of beagleboard "us export restrictions"
Nov 29 15:29:48 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 29 15:29:54 <Stskeeps> (saw someone have that problem)
Nov 29 15:30:02 <lcuk> yesterday
Nov 29 15:30:04 <lcuk> in here
Nov 29 15:30:08 <Stskeeps> .. yeah, possibly
Nov 29 15:30:16 <GAN800> lcuk, I'm quite ceryain RST38h has experience with circuit boards. :)
Nov 29 15:30:16 <RST38h> Sts: Oh, I will just claim my appartment to be a US territory then :)
Nov 29 15:30:53 <GAN800> lcuk, just because the touchscreen is all of YOUR world doesn't mean it's all if everybody else's too. ;)
Nov 29 15:31:36 <johnx> there are machines that come with OSes? I thought it was just a demo app...
Nov 29 15:31:53 <GAN800> Anyway, Angstrom's significantly easier to get going than it was a few months ago.
Nov 29 15:31:55 <RST38h> johnx: A lot of these kits come with Linux or WinCE
Nov 29 15:32:13 <johnx> RST38h, right but I thought it was some kind of test to make sure it works
Nov 29 15:32:22 <lcuk> no, but you gotta admit the lack of anything is a bit bothersome, its like ordering fish and chips and getting a potato and a fishing rod
Nov 29 15:32:24 <johnx> like picture frames the come with picture of someone else's baby
Nov 29 15:32:53 <RST38h> johnx: Depends. The NXC board has fully functional Linux with X11, XFCE, and Xine
Nov 29 15:32:54 * johnx 's english fails tonight
Nov 29 15:33:23 <GAN800> lcuk, depends on the person. :)
Nov 29 15:33:35 <RST38h> WinCE, by definition, should boot to the win95-like desktop too
Nov 29 15:34:01 <lcuk> of course gan, but im in the resteraunt to eat, i pay people in the kitchen to make my food
Nov 29 15:34:31 <lcuk> speaking of that, i gotta pick up some bacon
Nov 29 15:34:34 <lcuk> bbl
Nov 29 15:34:34 <RST38h> lcuk: Sure you are not paying them not to poison you? =)
Nov 29 15:34:42 <GAN800> lcuk, then clearly a Beagle is not the right device for you. ;)
Nov 29 15:34:42 <johnx> ever go to someplace with a salad bar? :)
Nov 29 15:35:15 <GAN800> I hear they have bacon bits there.
Nov 29 15:37:15 <RST38h> [innocently smiling] 2 strips of bacon a day raise your colon cancer chances by 65%
Nov 29 15:38:33 <GAN800> Ah, percentages
Nov 29 15:38:41 <fade2grey> perv
Nov 29 15:47:02 <slonopotamus> i was me. with 'us export' and missile strike
Nov 29 15:48:55 <Stskeeps> ah
Nov 29 15:49:15 <johnx> you do realize that the FBI hangs out on IRC and is very worried by the things you say, right? :)
Nov 29 15:50:29 <slonopotamus> no fbi here
Nov 29 15:53:04 <slonopotamus> now definitely no.
Nov 29 15:54:02 <slonopotamus> hm ;)
Nov 29 15:54:54 <lcuk> my bacon intake is not as great as you lot would appear to have me pegged as
Nov 29 15:55:10 <qwerty12_N800> lies!
Nov 29 15:55:11 <lcuk> i eat 2 or maybe 3 lbs of bacon a day
Nov 29 15:55:26 <lcuk> ummm rashers ;)
Nov 29 15:57:12 <slonopotamus> qemu doesn't compile with gcc 4. stupid.
Nov 29 15:58:09 <slonopotamus> btw
Nov 29 16:00:15 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, did i understand you correct, you abandoned deblet?
Nov 29 16:02:41 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: Mer certainly has more potential
Nov 29 16:03:00 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, i see
Nov 29 16:03:07 <Stskeeps> and i kept on hitting the power consumption problem with "normal" linux
Nov 29 16:03:32 <slonopotamus> mer, moblin, ubuntu mobile, maemo...
Nov 29 16:03:40 <Stskeeps> while it may be nice to have gentoo, debian, ubuntu, .. fedora, on tablets, they need special flavoring to be power saving
Nov 29 16:03:56 <Stskeeps> and as i see it, maemo does it the right way
Nov 29 16:04:00 <Stskeeps> not even sure how mobil does it
Nov 29 16:04:02 <Stskeeps> moblin
Nov 29 16:04:29 <johnx> probably be sleeping the device instead of real standby
Nov 29 16:04:41 <Stskeeps> mm
Nov 29 16:04:59 <GAN800> Stupid Atom
Nov 29 16:05:09 <slonopotamus> what do you mean by 'sleeping'?
Nov 29 16:05:30 <johnx> I mean ACPI S3
Nov 29 16:05:42 <johnx> "suspend to RAM"
Nov 29 16:06:15 <slonopotamus> crazy thing, btw ;)
Nov 29 16:07:56 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: which is why i think it may be the time to concentrate efforts, and do it in a way that would satisfy most users/power users of the tablets
Nov 29 16:08:35 <RST38h> Moblin probably tries HALTing CPU as much as possible
Nov 29 16:08:59 <RST38h> i.e. same as Maemo, I think
Nov 29 16:09:22 <Stskeeps> moblin is kinda like maemo i guess
Nov 29 16:09:31 <johnx> yeah, but intel CPU/chipsets don't get to quite as low of a power state, do they?
Nov 29 16:09:31 <slonopotamus> what about tickless kernel?
Nov 29 16:09:37 <slonopotamus> is it used?
Nov 29 16:09:37 <Stskeeps> well, hildonish
Nov 29 16:09:45 <johnx> tickless doesn't do that much, does it?
Nov 29 16:10:04 <slonopotamus> intel chipsets are very power-hungry
Nov 29 16:10:25 <GAN800> Maemo's been tickless for a whilr.
Nov 29 16:10:52 <t_s_o> hmm, how compatible with existing maemo will mer be?
Nov 29 16:11:07 <slonopotamus> GAN800, but stopped?
Nov 29 16:11:37 <Stskeeps> t_s_o: very close, i hope
Nov 29 16:11:57 <t_s_o> so one can expect most apps that work in maemo to work in mer?
Nov 29 16:12:08 <Stskeeps> we use same GTK, hildon, so
Nov 29 16:12:29 <Stskeeps> some things may be adjusted for abstracting the HW away
Nov 29 16:12:32 <t_s_o> not that hard given that most of the stuff im using right now is either "ripped" from debian or python based ;)
Nov 29 16:12:37 <derf> I would love it if maemo supported suspend-to-RAM out of the box.
Nov 29 16:12:58 <GAN800> The watchdog is the killer
Nov 29 16:13:02 <RST38h> johnx: Correct. So far, they don't power down as deeply as ARM chips
Nov 29 16:13:28 <GAN800> ideally, though, the powersaving should be working well enough that it isn't needed.
Nov 29 16:13:32 <Stskeeps> GAN800: i had an interesting reaction from my tablet with s2ram, - wd may not be active when in deep sleep
Nov 29 16:13:41 <Stskeeps> as far as i could see what the tablet started up and such
Nov 29 16:13:58 <Stskeeps> and OHM will hopefully aid all of this :P
Nov 29 16:14:20 <slonopotamus> why do you want s2ram?
Nov 29 16:14:41 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: sometimes i just want my device to sleep very deepily without power usage, but not have to reboot
Nov 29 16:14:46 <GAN800> OMAP3 is pretty much off at idle, so Intel's got a ways to go to match that. ;)
Nov 29 16:14:48 <Stskeeps> +much
Nov 29 16:15:16 <derf> s/sometimes/often
Nov 29 16:15:35 <derf> With s2ram I'd have to charge it maybe once a week.
Nov 29 16:15:39 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, n800 may live for a week if not touched. isn't it enough?
Nov 29 16:15:53 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: yeah, but a n800 can live for 30 days on s2ram :P
Nov 29 16:16:05 <Stskeeps> (at least)
Nov 29 16:16:09 <GAN800> Stskeeps, just idle too
Nov 29 16:16:17 <GAN800> Ask fanoush
Nov 29 16:16:25 <Meiz_n810> We will get canola to mer! will we? jaunty uses armel, so it can be installed with no tricks?
Nov 29 16:16:25 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 29 16:16:30 <slonopotamus> why not s2disk if you're not going to touch it for a monnth?
Nov 29 16:16:31 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: when canola is OSS i guess
Nov 29 16:16:40 <johnx> Meiz_n810, it's going open source soon
Nov 29 16:16:46 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: i've yet to see a s2disk working on tablet :P
Nov 29 16:17:02 <derf> slonopotamus: Because you want to be able to take it out and have it "just work" in seconds.
Nov 29 16:17:07 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, what makes it impossible?
Nov 29 16:17:28 <derf> And in my experience n8x0 is lucky to make two days without charging.
Nov 29 16:17:28 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: if its depends are open source...?
Nov 29 16:17:39 <slonopotamus> derf, 128mb can be read very fast from disk
Nov 29 16:17:40 <RST38h> 2-3 days here
Nov 29 16:17:54 <derf> slonopotamus: Too bad there's no disk, but only flash.
Nov 29 16:17:56 <Meiz_n810> ok canola is not that awesome...
Nov 29 16:18:13 <t_s_o> anyways, would have been fun to see a diablo like, but without the odd nokia closed source daemon or app...
Nov 29 16:18:17 <derf> 6 MB/s means at least 21s.
Nov 29 16:18:18 <johnx> Meiz_n810, yes, we will see canola on lots of things
Nov 29 16:18:27 <Meiz_n810> :)
Nov 29 16:18:34 <derf> And that's if it can actually run the card at peak bandwidth.
Nov 29 16:18:39 <johnx> possibly even some things that aren't strictly maemo :)
Nov 29 16:19:21 <t_s_o> heh, now i can retire homefreespace
Nov 29 16:19:34 <t_s_o> err, homediskfree :P
Nov 29 16:20:14 <slonopotamus> derf, what's bad with flash?
Nov 29 16:20:30 <derf> As I said, most cards are limited to 6 MB/s.
Nov 29 16:20:40 <slonopotamus> uh???
Nov 29 16:21:06 <johnx> Stskeeps, run into any problems with libtool while building in jaunty?
Nov 29 16:21:18 <t_s_o> freakin forum invasion bots...
Nov 29 16:21:37 <slonopotamus> i get 50mbps here on dd if=/big/file/on/card of=/dev/zero
Nov 29 16:21:47 <Stskeeps> johnx: not directly no
Nov 29 16:22:03 <Stskeeps> johnx: how come you ask?
Nov 29 16:22:17 <Jaffa> Canola's been going open source "soon" for nearly 3 months now. Almost time to call vapourware :-(
Nov 29 16:22:19 <johnx> having issues building gtk
Nov 29 16:22:26 <derf> Which is 6.25 MB/s?
Nov 29 16:22:56 <GAN800> Jaffa, hardly
Nov 29 16:22:59 <johnx> Jaffa, I predict progress soon :) I'll bet you a beer it's out as OSS before the new year, which suits me just fine
Nov 29 16:23:02 <lcuk> hom0.0001 libraries of congress / fortnight
Nov 29 16:23:04 <slonopotamus> correction: 50MB/s
Nov 29 16:23:07 <GAN800> You do know why it's delayed, right?
Nov 29 16:23:12 <lcuk> -hom
Nov 29 16:23:15 <Stskeeps> johnx: bzr export gtk+ lp:~carsten-munk/m-r/gtk+
Nov 29 16:23:21 <johnx> slonopotamus, there are no SD cards that fast. you sure it's not cached?
Nov 29 16:23:26 <slonopotamus> hm
Nov 29 16:23:31 <Stskeeps> https://code.launchpad.net/~carsten-munk/m-r/gtk+
Nov 29 16:23:40 <johnx> did you modify it much?
Nov 29 16:23:48 <Stskeeps> fair bit, look at changelog on second url
Nov 29 16:23:54 <GAN800> johnx, you'll lose that bet.
Nov 29 16:24:01 <slonopotamus> i used modified sdhc kernel
Nov 29 16:24:02 <Jaffa> GAN800: nope, why?
Nov 29 16:24:09 <johnx> GAN800, shipping will kill him :)
Nov 29 16:24:27 <slonopotamus> will need to recheck. tested on 1gb file, too big to be cached.
Nov 29 16:24:55 <johnx> 50MB/s is kind of incredible even with a fast SDHC card on a desktop machine
Nov 29 16:25:04 <GAN800> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=242479&postcount=8
Nov 29 16:25:23 <GAN800> Everybody read that before you talk Canola. ;)
Nov 29 16:26:02 <GAN800> Jaffa, your fellow council member is in charge of getting the source out there, so I recommend talking to him. :P
Nov 29 16:26:10 <Stskeeps> johnx: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#Porting_a_Maemo_package_to_Mer btw (and the next comment, - ssh server is trac.tspre.org is usually)
Nov 29 16:26:44 <konttori_> SD card speeds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card
Nov 29 16:26:55 <Jaffa> GAN800 : I'll try to remember. that doesn't /really/ explain why there's no source yet, just why there's no latest beta.
Nov 29 16:26:57 <konttori_> Only the slowest available cards have 4.8 MB/s
Nov 29 16:27:12 <slonopotamus> 1 sec
Nov 29 16:27:19 <konttori_> most reach the 200x -> 30 MB/s speeds
Nov 29 16:27:27 <GAN800> Jaffa, the source is dependent on getting b10 out the door.
Nov 29 16:27:58 <GAN800> I don't think it'll be too long after the new year anyway.
Nov 29 16:28:07 <konttori_> which brings me to question that is there an easy kernel fix for diablo to get faster mmc perf?
Nov 29 16:28:20 <qwerty12> yes, 48mhz mode
Nov 29 16:28:25 <GAN800> outpo.st/rotate
Nov 29 16:28:29 <qwerty12> unsupported by ti though#
Nov 29 16:28:32 <derf> konttori_: Those are also all maximums.
Nov 29 16:28:37 <lcuk> and not supported by all cards
Nov 29 16:29:02 <konttori_> sure, but most cards are over 133x these days
Nov 29 16:29:25 <konttori_> does the rotate support come with also the 48 MHz mode?
Nov 29 16:29:29 <konttori_> cool if it does.
Nov 29 16:30:22 <konttori_> "SDHC cards have fixed sector size of 512 bytes."
Nov 29 16:30:25 <konttori_> I didn't know that
Nov 29 16:32:09 <slonopotamus> you're still waiting? good, will bench now
Nov 29 16:33:49 <woglinde> re
Nov 29 16:35:00 <slonopotamus> so
Nov 29 16:35:05 <slonopotamus> 512k blocks
Nov 29 16:35:31 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: be aware of cache hits btw, dd isn't a safe benchmark in that aspect
Nov 29 16:35:58 <johnx> but on a 1GB file?
Nov 29 16:36:05 <johnx> should average out pretty quick
Nov 29 16:37:11 <slonopotamus> first, writing.
Nov 29 16:37:14 <slonopotamus> time dd if=/dev/zero of=/floppy/foo count=2048000
Nov 29 16:38:11 <slonopotamus> hmm. seeing 100% cpu load
Nov 29 16:38:30 <derf> That's fairly typical for writing.
Nov 29 16:38:48 <slonopotamus> why?
Nov 29 16:38:53 <RST38h> because it is working
Nov 29 16:39:05 <derf> Because good is dumb.
Nov 29 16:39:21 <slonopotamus> i thought it will i/o wait
Nov 29 16:39:22 <RST38h> filling the buffer, sending write command, waiting for the flash to become ready again
Nov 29 16:39:42 <slonopotamus> exactly
Nov 29 16:39:44 <johnx> what's mounted on /floppy?
Nov 29 16:39:45 <slonopotamus> waiting
Nov 29 16:39:48 <johnx> is this just internal flash?
Nov 29 16:40:03 <johnx> if so then it's spending lots of time on jffs2 compression
Nov 29 16:40:05 <Stskeeps> .. are we speaking of internal SD or internal flash?
Nov 29 16:40:08 <slonopotamus> i mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 there
Nov 29 16:40:12 <Stskeeps> ah, phew
Nov 29 16:40:13 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 29 16:40:16 <slonopotamus> sd, of cource
Nov 29 16:40:32 <slonopotamus> still running...
Nov 29 16:40:36 <Stskeeps> johnx: next Mer target.. - the iphone
Nov 29 16:40:36 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 29 16:40:44 <Stskeeps> (linux has just been booted)
Nov 29 16:40:56 <johnx> heh
Nov 29 16:41:04 <johnx> I'm not touchin' that with a 10ft pole
Nov 29 16:41:06 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 29 16:41:08 <Stskeeps> me neither
Nov 29 16:41:35 <Stskeeps> heh. "the Dev Team is hoping to run Google's equally Linux-based but more complete Android mobile operating system on the iPhone and is searching for programmers to help with the project."
Nov 29 16:41:39 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 29 16:42:32 <Meiz_n810> just looked at "windows mobile emulator" thread in itT
Nov 29 16:42:44 <Meiz_n810> so funny!
Nov 29 16:42:56 <johnx> it's hard enough making linux work on something that started with it in the first place
Nov 29 16:43:02 <slonopotamus> http://rafb.net/p/r6HBbp42.html
Nov 29 16:43:34 <t_s_o> johnx: do not stop people from trying, again and again...
Nov 29 16:43:38 <woglinde> Stskeeps yes I read that too
Nov 29 16:43:57 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: i wouldn't mind a simple PIM and sync like in pocket pc 2002 really
Nov 29 16:44:23 <johnx> t_s_o, oh I won't. I'll watch from the sidelines, just like I do when people go base jumping or have bare knuckle boxing matches
Nov 29 16:45:45 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: i don't think WinMo is unusable, but i laughed for answers to that questition.
Nov 29 16:45:58 <slonopotamus> anyone can calculate? ;)
Nov 29 16:46:07 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: like "give me a hammer"
Nov 29 16:46:26 <johnx> like 4.1MB/s ?
Nov 29 16:47:25 <t_s_o> johnx: i didnt say i would try either. especially not on something like the iphone ;)
Nov 29 16:47:34 <slonopotamus> ahha
Nov 29 16:47:48 <johnx> t_s_o, but I won't try and stop them either :)
Nov 29 16:47:54 <slonopotamus> now, reading
Nov 29 16:48:41 <slonopotamus> hmm
Nov 29 16:48:58 <slonopotamus> i don't have sdhc kernel now
Nov 29 16:48:58 <derf> For read speeds I get about 8 MB/s (for /media/mmc2/Maps/GStreet.db, 1.2 GB).
Nov 29 16:49:09 <slonopotamus> stock diablo ine
Nov 29 16:49:13 <slonopotamus> one
Nov 29 16:49:20 <derf> That was stock Chinook.
Nov 29 16:49:58 <RST38h> Sts: why not just run MacOS on the tablets? =)
Nov 29 16:50:41 <slonopotamus> http://rafb.net/p/XeBJNR27.html
Nov 29 16:51:24 <johnx> 4.7 MB/s ?
Nov 29 16:51:29 <slonopotamus> yep
Nov 29 16:51:37 <johnx> <- might not be safe to trust him with math right now
Nov 29 16:51:50 <derf> So, in other words, nowhere near 50 MB/s.
Nov 29 16:51:56 <RST38h> yep
Nov 29 16:52:03 <slonopotamus> i was wrong
Nov 29 16:52:06 <slonopotamus> sorry
Nov 29 16:52:14 <slonopotamus> near 50 mbps
Nov 29 16:52:19 <slonopotamus> not MB
Nov 29 16:52:30 <derf> Better to find out among friends.
Nov 29 16:52:47 <johnx> really easy to lose a 0 here and there
Nov 29 16:52:57 <slonopotamus> ;)
Nov 29 16:53:24 <slonopotamus> well, but s2disk doesn't need to read full ram in one moment
Nov 29 16:53:49 <derf> No, but the system is basically unresponsive until it does.
Nov 29 16:53:56 <RST38h> you mean, just back up the whole memory to the swap file?
Nov 29 16:54:08 <RST38h> and then read it as necessary?
Nov 29 16:54:11 <derf> That's what s2disk is.
Nov 29 16:54:25 <slonopotamus> yep
Nov 29 16:54:30 <derf> At least on Linux.
Nov 29 16:54:55 <RST38h> what does it do with pages that can't be swapped out?
Nov 29 16:54:59 <slonopotamus> hehe
Nov 29 16:55:01 <derf> Magic.
Nov 29 16:55:06 <slonopotamus> yep
Nov 29 16:55:08 <johnx> if RAM won't fit in swap it dies
Nov 29 16:55:23 <johnx> maybe it will dump its cache first?
Nov 29 16:55:29 <derf> Presumably those are owned by some driver, and the driver knows how to suspend itself.
Nov 29 16:55:55 <slonopotamus> i use s2disk on my laptop. it really works
Nov 29 16:56:17 <derf> Yeah, I do, too. But I don't pull my laptop out of my pocket to check a map.
Nov 29 16:56:23 <slonopotamus> hehe
Nov 29 16:56:45 <slonopotamus> we were talking about 1 month of not touching your tablet
Nov 29 16:57:04 <slonopotamus> i'm not sure s2ram makes sence
Nov 29 16:57:24 <derf> I was talking more along the lines of under 6 hours of use a week.
Nov 29 16:57:43 <derf> But for me the battery is dead within 2 days.
Nov 29 16:57:44 <dragorn> s2disk basically operates like swap, so correct, it will dump the cache (or just not write it, since the pages are flagged to not be swapped out.  swapping cache is pointless.)
Nov 29 16:57:53 <slonopotamus> you still need to power ram. you still need to power input devices so you'll know when too wake up
Nov 29 16:58:21 <slonopotamus> you still need to power cpu
Nov 29 16:58:28 <derf> Not hardly.
Nov 29 16:58:31 <slonopotamus> so... what's the point?
Nov 29 16:58:31 <dragorn> derf: turn off scanning for networks and/or put it in offline mode
Nov 29 16:58:49 <dragorn> afaik the tablets don't even s2ram
Nov 29 16:58:55 <derf> Yes, they do.
Nov 29 16:59:06 <derf> But only for 64 seconds at a time.
Nov 29 16:59:08 <dragorn> unless it's been added very recently
Nov 29 16:59:14 <slonopotamus> main power drainers are high cpu load, screen and wireless
Nov 29 16:59:20 <derf> I've seen a hacked-up script that does it.
Nov 29 16:59:25 <dragorn> there is s2r support in there, mostly, if you hack the xml files for the ui to add it to the power list
Nov 29 16:59:38 <derf> dragorn: Right... I'm saying I want that out of the box.
Nov 29 17:00:09 <dragorn> derf: that's mike bakers script, he wakes up on a timer because the watchdog trips otherwise
Nov 29 17:00:10 <dragorn> if i recall
Nov 29 17:00:14 <slonopotamus> derf, my previous message ^
Nov 29 17:00:17 <Meiz_n810> any idea why i get forbidden on http://code.google.com/p/android-on-n8xx/
Nov 29 17:00:20 <derf> dragorn: I know.
Nov 29 17:00:21 <dragorn> and theres no way to suspend the watchdog
Nov 29 17:00:38 <derf> But he did get improved battery life out of it.
Nov 29 17:01:14 <slonopotamus> btw, under 100% cpu @400mhz load my n800 survives for only 2 hourns
Nov 29 17:01:38 <slonopotamus> is it ok?
Nov 29 17:01:45 <johnx> sounds about right
Nov 29 17:01:48 <Stskeeps> dragorn: the thing is, the timer doesn't always wake up for watchdog, according to log
Nov 29 17:01:56 <johnx> how old is the battery
Nov 29 17:01:57 <dragorn> Stskeeps: yup
Nov 29 17:02:14 <dragorn> Stskeeps: which is probably why he lost interest a few years ago, or at least I haven't heard him talking about his 800 lately
Nov 29 17:02:39 <slonopotamus> johnx, bought in february
Nov 29 17:02:49 * dragorn will be more interested in the 810 again once the wifi driver replacement is done.
Nov 29 17:03:01 <johnx> still probably about right. It was probably sitting on the shelf before that
Nov 29 17:03:33 <Stskeeps> dragorn: oh, it didn't kill the tablet
Nov 29 17:03:37 <Stskeeps> dragorn: it actually well behaved
Nov 29 17:03:48 <dragorn> Stskeeps: didn't say it did
Nov 29 17:03:51 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 29 17:04:08 <slonopotamus> and my laptop survives only 40 minutes under full load :(
Nov 29 17:04:35 <dragorn> but as someone who has also been trying to do stuff with the tablets, once you bang your head against some stupid binary driver bug for a few weeks, you start not caring much
Nov 29 17:04:44 <slonopotamus> hehe
Nov 29 17:05:00 <slonopotamus> stupid binary driver ;)
Nov 29 17:05:50 <Stskeeps> dragorn: .. which even more justifies why community needs to be more strong in the system base, and not just UI bugs :P
Nov 29 17:06:12 <dragorn> Stskeeps: which is impossible when nokia can't/won't release the specs
Nov 29 17:07:09 <slonopotamus> heh
Nov 29 17:07:18 <Stskeeps> dragorn: nokia's opening up how they can.. that people start seeing it's similar to p54 probably helps
Nov 29 17:07:36 <slonopotamus> ext3 on sd ddeletes files much faster than ext3 on hd
Nov 29 17:07:44 <dragorn> Stskeeps: except it has a proprietary calibration system
Nov 29 17:07:51 <dragorn> Stskeeps: so "being like" a p54 doesn't help much at all
Nov 29 17:08:10 <dragorn> Stskeeps: yes, nokia is working on some kernel drivers (which I think still plan to have a binary userspace to calibrate), which is an improvement
Nov 29 17:08:12 <Stskeeps> dragorn: if you observe stlc45xx-devel, a guy has actually gotten it
Nov 29 17:08:25 <Stskeeps> the calibration and stuff. if you have some insight, ask him :P
Nov 29 17:09:34 <Stskeeps> dragorn: .. didn't see you in here before, - what are your interests on the tablet?
Nov 29 17:09:38 <dragorn> Stskeeps: yes, someone from nokia is working on the drivers with the goal to include them in the kernel.  Of course like all companies seem to like to do, they want to develop them out-of-tree and then bulk merge, and they're ignoring all the owrk done by the community already
Nov 29 17:10:34 <dragorn> and their USB is still broken
Nov 29 17:12:27 <Stskeeps> in terms of?
Nov 29 17:12:32 <Stskeeps> (USB)
Nov 29 17:13:26 <dragorn> HID reads tend to lock the system until the watchdog triggers
Nov 29 17:13:47 <dragorn> which makes it useless to support usb devices on
Nov 29 17:13:55 <soap> a ha!
Nov 29 17:14:10 <dragorn> seems to be a long-standing (years) bug in the cx usb host mode drivers
Nov 29 17:14:26 <dragorn> works about 70% of the time
Nov 29 17:14:43 <soap> Claws mail sets the email alert if IT is the first client to receive an IMAP message.  If my desktop client with IMAP "push" is on CLAWS sees it as an unread message, but not a "new" one and doesn't set the alert.
Nov 29 17:14:54 <dragorn> something in the dma mapping for bulk io reads goes wonky
Nov 29 17:15:04 <soap> I wish it would set the light on every new-to-it message.
Nov 29 17:19:29 * slonopotamus broke his chair :(
Nov 29 17:20:49 * johnx leans his chair backwards on two legs, asks for trouble
Nov 29 17:24:23 <Stskeeps> johnx: any comments on DSME draft on blueprint, btw?
Nov 29 17:25:36 <johnx> would we really have DSME and OHM?
Nov 29 17:28:23 <Stskeeps> DSME is trivial to reimplement anyway
Nov 29 17:28:34 <Stskeeps> and that's my impression from talking to quim, so
Nov 29 17:29:18 <Stskeeps> that DSME and OHM will come out
Nov 29 17:29:39 <johnx> hmm? he thinks DSME and OHM will be side by side?
Nov 29 17:30:04 <Stskeeps> well, DSME has been promised to be open sourced, and OHM will come along too
Nov 29 17:31:03 <johnx> I'd still like to see the Fremantle architecture before worrying about it
Nov 29 17:31:16 <johnx> but as always, it's your time to spend
Nov 29 17:31:48 <johnx> I'm finally getting into the bzr flow. I'll try and get hildon-desktop put together in a sane way
Nov 29 17:34:55 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 29 17:35:07 <Stskeeps> true, december will bring gifts
Nov 29 17:35:08 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 29 17:37:17 <Stskeeps> so you think we should focus on the rootfs part for now?
Nov 29 17:38:44 <slonopotamus> giftfs ;)
Nov 29 17:39:46 <johnx> well, that's actually an interesting thought: what can we work on that won't be completely changed once the alpha SDK is out?
Nov 29 17:40:22 <Stskeeps> infrastructure, proof of concepts
Nov 29 17:40:29 <Stskeeps> i guess
Nov 29 17:40:30 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 29 17:40:35 <Stskeeps> .. concepts
Nov 29 17:40:43 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: that game looks like a pure time waster
Nov 29 17:40:46 <johnx> from the lack of updates on the public hildon-1 I'd have to assume it's undergoing some big changes internally
Nov 29 17:41:04 <Stskeeps> *nod*
Nov 29 17:41:18 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, hehe
Nov 29 17:41:47 <Stskeeps> johnx: think we'll just get hildon going, if anything, we can strive towards a diablo UI
Nov 29 17:42:04 <johnx> basic functionality and some day-to-day must haves?
Nov 29 17:42:20 <johnx> while attempting not to sink too much time into things likely to change?
Nov 29 17:42:24 <Stskeeps> yeah i guess
Nov 29 17:42:34 <johnx> heh, don't look at me :P
Nov 29 17:42:45 <johnx> you have more time into this than me
Nov 29 17:42:52 <Stskeeps> hehe, if i don't discuss it i go off some tangent ;)
Nov 29 17:43:16 <lcuk> oooh, shiny
Nov 29 17:43:17 <johnx> just as long as you take what I say as "enlightened self-interest"
Nov 29 17:49:43 <johnx> anyways, I'm off to bed for now. I've got a noopt build of gtk+ to leave overnight.
Nov 29 18:26:35 * lcuk boogies to codem onkey
Nov 29 18:26:40 <lcuk> codemonkey
Nov 29 18:30:12 * Stskeeps ponders what to do tonight
Nov 29 18:31:13 <lcuk> get raving drunk, find anything which sounds cool, push it into -devel, then forward it into extras "it compiles, ship it"
Nov 29 18:31:37 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 29 18:32:28 <lcuk> ive almost finished making an entirely stroke based font :)
Nov 29 18:33:21 <GAN800> lol
Nov 29 18:33:38 <lcuk> its been a good experience so far, learning how to handle variations and editing a group of related items
Nov 29 18:34:15 <GAN800> Stskeeps, learn GTK and code up a bootmenu control panel? ;)
Nov 29 18:34:51 <linuxber> hello im wring a bash script for my n810 and the clear and select binnarys arent present any tips on getting around this?
Nov 29 18:37:23 <lcuk> linuxber, i dont know much about scripting, but you could try to find alternatives
Nov 29 18:40:34 <Stskeeps> GAN800: naah. :P
Nov 29 18:40:53 <linuxber> hmhmhmh
Nov 29 18:41:51 <linuxber> im just trying to use http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prog-Intro-HOWTO-9.html#ss9.1
Nov 29 18:42:40 <GAN800> Stskeeps, chicken. :P
Nov 29 18:43:12 <johnx> linuxber, did you already install bash on the tablet?
Nov 29 18:43:16 <johnx> <- goes back to bed
Nov 29 18:44:12 <lcuk> lol
Nov 29 18:44:27 <linuxber> Johnx, it errored when i tryed to install
Nov 29 18:47:54 <linuxber> hmhm
Nov 29 18:48:24 <Stskeeps> clear isnt avail? :P
Nov 29 18:48:31 * Stskeeps uses that all the time, i think
Nov 29 18:48:43 <linuxber> no =[
Nov 29 18:49:18 <linuxber> i know with the updated osso-xterm theres an option to clear and reset
Nov 29 18:50:07 <lcuk> i couldnt clear in the one script i made, so i replaced it with echo;echo;echo;echo;
Nov 29 18:50:38 * lcuk never thought it about it from that day to this
Nov 29 18:52:56 <inz> echo -e '\e[2J\e[H'
Nov 29 18:52:58 <inz> ;)
Nov 29 18:54:32 <linuxber> ahh
Nov 29 18:54:42 <linuxber> ./clear
Nov 29 18:54:42 <linuxber> \e[2J\e[H
Nov 29 18:59:36 <inz> Hmm, of course busybox echo doesn't really support -e
Nov 29 18:59:49 <inz> So I guess you'll need to use ctrl+v-esc instead
Nov 29 19:00:11 <inz> Nor does it support ctlr+v
Nov 29 19:00:14 <inz> Damn ;)
Nov 29 19:00:40 <inz> Luckily vi does
Nov 29 19:02:11 <qwerty12_N800> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18126
Nov 29 19:04:21 <linuxber> thanks
Nov 29 19:09:26 <linuxber> woot and it works thanks qwert12
Nov 29 19:09:43 <qwerty12_N800> np :)
Nov 29 19:10:11 <linuxber> now  about the selcet
Nov 29 19:10:22 <linuxber> now  about the selcet option in my script
Nov 29 19:10:38 <linuxber> will be done another day
Nov 29 19:11:33 <linuxber> thanks again qwerty12 youv done alots of good work on the internettablettalk forums
Nov 29 19:12:31 <qwerty12_N800> :)
Nov 29 19:13:06 <qwerty12_N800> stop, you're making me blush :P
Nov 29 19:21:16 <Stskeeps> "Lower startup progress bar animation duration to 11s"
Nov 29 19:21:19 <Stskeeps> hmm :P
Nov 29 19:22:58 <lcuk> Stskeeps, they could achieve that quite easily by moving stuff outside the display period ;)
Nov 29 19:23:10 <Stskeeps> yeah, but it usually adds up with how fast the system boots
Nov 29 19:23:23 <lcuk> shhhh but the animation will be under 11seconds
Nov 29 19:24:24 <Stskeeps> RX-34 was n800, RX-44 was n810, RX-48 was n810w right?
Nov 29 19:24:31 <Stskeeps> so i guess RX-51 is n900 :P
Nov 29 19:24:53 <lcuk> maybe,
Nov 29 19:25:06 <lcuk> but thats only 3 revisions of hardware up
Nov 29 19:25:23 <lcuk> that is of course if the rx number implies hardware test model
Nov 29 19:25:41 <slonopotamus> what the heck is rx?
Nov 29 19:26:26 <lcuk> hardware model identifier
Nov 29 19:29:14 <Stskeeps> one thing though, nokia is a master of keeping their cards close :P
Nov 29 19:30:02 <qwerty12_N800> well, until the device in question is released...
Nov 29 19:31:40 <lcuk> even then :P :D
Nov 29 19:32:26 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, come on, you've seen my collection of pdf's :p
Nov 29 19:32:35 <qwerty12_N800> -'
Nov 29 19:32:50 <lcuk> yes, what has been seen cannot be unseen and all that
Nov 29 19:33:02 <lcuk> MY EYES, THE GOGGLES, THEY DO NOTHING!
Nov 29 19:33:06 * slonopotamus hates bluetooth download popup
Nov 29 19:33:13 <qwerty12_N800> lol
Nov 29 19:34:56 <slonopotamus> there are lots of people here. they all sit and say nothing. that scares me. maybe they're from fbi?
Nov 29 19:36:17 <lcuk> they are all actively integrating our conversations into the next device
Nov 29 19:36:39 <lcuk> DON'T FORGET THE LASER AND SHARK ATTACHMENT
Nov 29 19:36:59 * lcuk should stop shouting
Nov 29 19:37:15 <slonopotamus> o_O
Nov 29 19:37:31 <slonopotamus> and blackjack, please
Nov 29 19:37:42 <lcuk> forget the blackjack
Nov 29 19:37:48 <slonopotamus> :(
Nov 29 19:38:06 <lcuk> you forgot to ask for hookers
Nov 29 19:38:41 <lcuk> i can actually see some random nokian sat in his lab with an n900 and a rasher of bacon trying to work out how to incorporate it
Nov 29 19:38:45 <slonopotamus> and blackjack  with hookers, please
Nov 29 19:40:45 <slonopotamus> hehe
Nov 29 19:42:01 <lcuk> ok serious question, i have a completely dynamic variable sized font face.  i have an arbritary display area allocated to render a string, should i simply always render the font as large as possible within the dimensions available?  (the alternative to to also record the displayed size and a load of other dpi related stuff)
Nov 29 19:45:51 <GAN800> RX-51 is confirmed?
Nov 29 19:46:06 <GAN800> Well, coroberated. :P
Nov 29 19:47:17 <Stskeeps> GAN800: it's in a boot script
Nov 29 19:47:24 <Stskeeps> where it checks for internal MMC existence
Nov 29 19:47:33 <Stskeeps> RX-34, RX-44, RX-48 and now RX-51
Nov 29 19:47:36 <GAN800> Must be then
Nov 29 19:47:57 <Stskeeps> i've been trawling commits out of boredom
Nov 29 19:47:57 * GAN800 spazzes as microb tops itself while I'm typing.
Nov 29 19:48:14 <GAN800> 3 times!
Nov 29 19:48:37 <Stskeeps> i would kill for a microb replacement, like, using webkit or something
Nov 29 19:48:48 <Stskeeps> UI is fine and integrated, but engine..
Nov 29 19:48:52 <GAN800> Now I can stop calling it the N900 anyway
Nov 29 19:48:56 <Pavlov> lol
Nov 29 19:49:24 <GAN800> If it would just stop topping itself
Nov 29 19:49:44 <GAN800> Does Fennec top three times for every freaking page load?
Nov 29 19:49:51 <Pavlov> top?
Nov 29 19:49:55 <GAN800> What an attention whore
Nov 29 19:50:02 <GAN800> Steal focus
Nov 29 19:50:08 <Pavlov> mm, it shouldn't
Nov 29 19:50:10 <GAN800> Move to the front
Nov 29 19:50:13 <Pavlov> but not sure
Nov 29 19:50:46 <GAN800> 'Hey, I'm trying to type on IRC--NOOO! look at meee!'
Nov 29 19:50:54 <Pavlov> a2pre is looking pretty good
Nov 29 19:52:06 <GAN800> Extras? :p
Nov 29 19:52:20 <Stskeeps> GAN800: i have to punch mauku a couple of times to make it keep down :P
Nov 29 19:52:39 <Pavlov> GAN800: it'll be in extras when it comes out
Nov 29 19:54:16 <GAN800> Pavlov, er, a2 or 1.0?
Nov 29 19:55:04 * Stskeeps still thinks there should be OS support for developer PPA's or something
Nov 29 19:55:28 <Stskeeps> so it goes ppa -> extras-devel -> extras
Nov 29 19:55:34 <GAN800> Stskeeps, propose it in a wiki page and hit up -developers.
Nov 29 19:56:00 <GAN800> Give you something to do if you're bored.
Nov 29 19:56:03 <Stskeeps> mm
Nov 29 19:56:17 <Stskeeps> i'm reading up on an ARG i haven't caught up on since monday since gf has been home
Nov 29 19:56:24 <Stskeeps> will add the PPA idea to my ottodo
Nov 29 19:57:01 <Pavlov> GAN800: a2
Nov 29 19:57:23 <GAN800> Pavlov, ah, excellent! Thanks! :)
Nov 29 19:57:24 <Pavlov> we've got most perf problems fixed
Nov 29 19:57:34 <Pavlov> so should be good to push up there
Nov 29 19:57:59 <Pavlov> (still room for improvement, but it is quite usable)
Nov 29 19:58:05 <Pavlov> i'll look in to that focus thing
Nov 29 19:58:07 <Pavlov> dunno what would be causing that
Nov 29 20:06:39 <GAN800> Apparently it's also a bug in Firefox on the desktop
Nov 29 20:06:57 <GAN800> it's just way more irritating in Matchbox
Nov 29 20:08:37 <GAN800> Pavlov, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3557
Nov 29 20:23:00 <slonopotamus> gl_cv_func_wcwidth_works=yes
Nov 29 20:23:11 <RST38h> GAN: How is black friday?
Nov 29 20:33:36 <GAN800> RST38h, we went to Home Depot and got some cheap plants. :p
Nov 29 20:44:24 <RST38h> Noo gaaagdets? =)
Nov 29 20:47:08 <woglinde> re
Nov 29 20:54:09 <hung_andrew> Hello all! pls, help me. I am trying to install maemo SDK 4.1.1. I am on step 1: installing 4.1.1 scratchbox via installer script. Script Already downloaded all tgz`s and unpacked them. Now I have a problem: after I am trying to command Scratchbox login... yesScratchbox login executable... noE: Scratchbox login found but not executable by user.E: Please check that user is member of the group specified in scratchboxE: installation (default 'sbox').E: Also
Nov 29 20:54:10 <hung_andrew> ding group membership.[andrey@localhost Desktop]$
Nov 29 20:54:45 <woglinde> ???
Nov 29 20:54:46 <woglinde> id
Nov 29 20:54:54 <GAN800> RST38h, nah, 14k to fix the pool and patio was enough ;)
Nov 29 20:54:55 <woglinde> gives you in which groups you are
Nov 29 20:55:25 <hung_andrew> I cannot run sdk installer script after that
Nov 29 20:56:01 <woglinde> hung_andrew what is the output of the commad 'id'
Nov 29 20:56:08 <woglinde> without the '
Nov 29 20:56:24 <hung_andrew> uid=500(andrey) gid=500(andrey) группы=10(wheel),19(proc),22(cdrom),71(floppy),80(cdwriter),81(audio),83(radio),110(xgrp),500(andrey),501(camera),502(scanner)
Nov 29 20:56:43 <hung_andrew> no group sbox you mean?
Nov 29 20:56:49 <woglinde> right
Nov 29 20:57:01 <qwerty12_N800> hung_andrew, sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser andrey yes
Nov 29 20:57:03 <woglinde> after editing /etc/goup you have to login new
Nov 29 20:57:15 <woglinde> qwerty ah hm
Nov 29 20:57:35 <hung_andrew> oh. thanks. A am not expirienced user with linux yet
Nov 29 20:58:20 <qwerty12_N800> after running sbox_adduser, logout and then login
Nov 29 21:00:00 <woglinde> qwerty so scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser edits the host /etc/group ?
Nov 29 21:00:35 <hung_andrew> /etc/group or ***/scratchbox/etc/group?
Nov 29 21:00:48 <qwerty12_N800> woglinde, think so. at least ubuntu's user management tool showed me as belonging to sbox
Nov 29 21:00:55 <woglinde> qerty okay
Nov 29 22:15:48 <RST38h> Mumbai Terrorists Watch World React With Horror Using BlackBerrys !
Nov 29 22:17:30 <Stskeeps> heh, url?
Nov 29 22:18:39 <RST38h> http://gizmodo.com/5099999/mumbai-terrorists-watch-world-react-with-horror-using-blackberrys
Nov 29 22:21:28 <Stskeeps> that is kinda interesting
Nov 29 22:21:41 <Stskeeps> wasn't india the ones who tried to get RIM to hand over encryption keys?
Nov 29 22:21:42 <RST38h> Why not iPhones? =)
Nov 29 22:22:05 <RST38h> Sts: Absolutely no value in that, for this particular case
Nov 29 22:22:22 <Stskeeps> http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/encryption/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=208401643
Nov 29 22:22:46 <Stskeeps> RST38h: that's obviously true as it was "watching" :P
Nov 29 22:22:54 <Stskeeps> still interesting though
Nov 29 22:22:54 <RST38h> yep
Nov 29 22:24:31 <Stskeeps> .. i'm waiting for the first person to suggest "terrorists were using blackberrys. obama uses blackberry. secret service wants to take away obamas blackberry. ergo, obama is a terrorist"
Nov 29 22:24:36 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 29 22:25:22 <RST38h> Sts: Republican nutballs are not that technologically advanced
Nov 29 22:26:58 <GAN800> The Fixed in 'Freemantle' need to just unsubscribe from bugmail.
Nov 29 22:27:21 <GAN800> s/need/people need/
Nov 29 22:27:21 <infobot> GAN800 meant: The Fixed in 'Freemantle' people need to just unsubscribe from bugmail.
Nov 29 22:31:13 <lcuk> errrr GAN800, it appears you made your own whoooopsie,   its Fremantle not "Freemantle"
Nov 29 22:31:29 <lcuk> tsk, call yourself head of community :P
Nov 29 22:31:38 <GAN800> lcuk, that's why it's in quotes. :rolleyes:
Nov 29 22:32:09 <lcuk> but the thread subject is correct
Nov 29 22:32:19 * lcuk checked first
Nov 29 22:32:29 <GAN800> lcuk, the people posting in it can't get it right.
Nov 29 22:32:35 <GAN800> But whatever
Nov 29 22:33:07 * lcuk passes gan a chillpill.   have you recovered from thanksgiving yet
Nov 29 22:33:53 <GAN800> We still have leftover turkey.
Nov 29 22:34:28 <lcuk> heh, its like that at christmas round here,  we have turkey butties all the way into june
Nov 29 22:35:51 <lcuk> oh noes! maemo.org is down
Nov 29 22:38:40 <Proteous> butties?
Nov 29 22:38:52 <Proteous> what are butties precious
Nov 29 22:40:33 <GAN800> I think we're gonna have game hens for Christmas
Nov 29 22:41:32 <RST38h> bloodthirsty avian murderers (tm)
Nov 29 22:44:02 <Proteous> actualy, most of the blood is drained out before we get them
Nov 29 22:45:59 <RST38h> drained and drunk by bloodthirsty avian murderers (tm)
Nov 29 22:47:15 <BULLE> well, ifyou need to quench your thirst, you realy need
Nov 29 22:48:56 * RST38h looks at the parrot assertively
Nov 29 23:47:49 <GAN800> dead maemo.org
Nov 29 23:49:44 * lcuk said that b4
Nov 29 23:49:50 <lcuk> the wiki is still working
Nov 29 23:50:12 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.20081129_234301.gary.scr.png
Nov 29 23:50:14 <lcuk> crap
Nov 29 23:50:51 <GAN800> trippy
Nov 29 23:52:34 <lcuk> lol gan
Nov 29 23:52:44 <lcuk> its color test and it was meant for a pm window
Nov 29 23:52:57 <lcuk> ive been upgrading fonts :)
Nov 29 23:53:10 <lcuk> losing lots of valuable time, but its a requirement
Nov 29 23:53:42 * lcuk has regretted greyscale fontage for a while now
Nov 30 00:20:05 <lcuk> its hard to overstate my satisfaction
Nov 30 00:26:47 <bef0rd> ha ha.
Nov 30 00:36:14 <samr7> lo all
Nov 30 00:36:20 <samr7> who knows anything about multimediad?
Nov 30 00:36:56 <samr7> nobody?
Nov 30 00:37:41 <samr7> aww come on, _somebody_ has to know what multimediad is
Nov 30 00:39:45 <sp3000> ooh, the gpl on lsd
Nov 30 00:43:19 <lcuk> lol sp3000
Nov 30 00:43:37 <lcuk> samr7, i think thats the media scanner
Nov 30 00:43:58 <samr7> scanner?
Nov 30 00:44:09 <samr7> I hear tell it handles bluetooth audio devices
Nov 30 00:45:44 <samr7> I'm trying to get a hands-free application to work
Nov 30 00:45:54 <samr7> this aspect of multimediad is of interest
Nov 30 00:53:06 <lcuk> dunno
Nov 30 02:21:15 <zakkm> anyone know a way to call landlines free, over nokia ?
Nov 30 02:21:28 <zakkm> SIP method perhaps
Nov 30 02:52:39 <blkno1> Is it possible to access the entire file system via file manager?
Nov 30 02:55:43 <lcuk> blkno1, not by default, but i believe you can create a symlink somewhere, but it causes havock with certain software
Nov 30 02:56:05 <lcuk> i know nothing more cos i stopped trying when i heard it broke stuff
Nov 30 02:59:01 <blkno1> I mounted some nfs shares and am trying to get to em.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 30 02:59:57 2008