**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 02 02:59:57 2008
Dec 02 04:24:28 <johnx> bleh
Dec 02 04:24:43 <johnx> ~lart hildon-desktop for failing to be a shared object when I tell it to
Dec 02 04:24:43 * infobot frags hildon-desktop with his BFG9000 for failing to be a shared object when I tell it to
Dec 02 04:30:53 <johnx> well building with maemo-launcher support doesn't work for *anyone's* package in my build env :/
Dec 02 04:59:19 <szczym_> helo all das any one know how to install tomboy on n810 ?
Dec 02 04:59:34 <szczym_> here is the port http://code.google.com/p/tomboy-maemo/
Dec 02 05:13:54 <johnx> dunno
Dec 02 05:14:00 <johnx> that page doesn't look very up to date
Dec 02 05:15:50 <johnx> have you tried the info on the page linked? http://www.mono-project.com/Maemo
Dec 02 05:22:47 <user_> whats new
Dec 02 05:56:28 <RST38h> moo johnx
Dec 02 05:57:08 <johnx> m00f
Dec 02 05:57:21 * johnx sighs and scowls at hildon-desktop
Dec 02 05:59:17 <johnx> but, how goes it with you?
Dec 02 07:10:41 <`Mace> hi
Dec 02 07:27:31 <qwerty12> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=246127#post246127 heh
Dec 02 07:35:05 <`Mace> hm
Dec 02 07:36:46 <t_s_o> i got mixed feelings here...
Dec 02 07:37:30 <qwerty12> Only thing I see wrong is that talk.maemo.org sounds odder than internettablettalk :P
Dec 02 07:38:41 <t_s_o> i wonder about those added moderators...
Dec 02 07:39:24 <t_s_o> last thing we needs is something like the apple forum, where whole threads are wiped because they talk negatively against the product or company...
Dec 02 07:40:01 <t_s_o> yes, i know maemo.org is not nokia.com, but i still cant help it...
Dec 02 07:41:01 <qwerty12> t_s_o, I haven't seen that on the mailing lists.
Dec 02 07:41:24 <t_s_o> your probably right, im just being paranoid...
Dec 02 07:41:34 <t_s_o> it becomes a sad habit at some point...
Dec 02 07:42:38 <t_s_o> i guess it comes from having one to many chats with right-wing americans...
Dec 02 08:10:31 <Andy80> hi all
Dec 02 08:19:02 <`Mace> anybody here get android going on an n8xx?
Dec 02 08:20:14 <ptman> I read the blogpost about a nokia announcement, but the time has already passed, does anyone have a link?
Dec 02 08:20:41 <`Mace> im looking at a site now
Dec 02 08:21:05 <`Mace> wish i could put it on my n95
Dec 02 08:21:25 <`Mace> i dont like symbian that much
Dec 02 08:22:07 <`Mace> its ok but im sure i could get better apps for android
Dec 02 08:23:08 <`Mace> wouldnt mind trying
Dec 02 08:25:07 <Andy80> it looks like we have a new device: http://conversations.nokia.com/home/2008/12/nokia-n97-marks-evolutionary-milestone-for-nseries-and-mobilekind.html
Dec 02 08:25:09 <Andy80> :)
Dec 02 08:26:49 <`Mace> heh
Dec 02 08:27:14 <`Mace> thought the n96 was a step backwards
Dec 02 08:27:25 <Meiz_n810> Looks good....but
Dec 02 08:27:31 <Meiz_n810> Symbian
Dec 02 08:27:37 <`Mace> yeah
Dec 02 08:27:51 <`Mace> symbian is lacking
Dec 02 08:28:11 <`Mace> they need to ditch it
Dec 02 08:28:47 <`Mace> symbian is good for 8yr old motorolas
Dec 02 08:28:56 <Meiz_n810> :D
Dec 02 08:29:03 <`Mace> not an n95
Dec 02 08:29:30 <`Mace> i want to find a new os for it if i can
Dec 02 08:29:54 <`Mace> which is why i am looking now
Dec 02 08:31:27 <Meiz_n810> there is video about running the android m3 on it
Dec 02 08:32:29 <`Mace> most people think its fake
Dec 02 08:32:36 <`Mace> i do too
Dec 02 08:33:21 <`Mace> ah well. ill see about getting it going later
Dec 02 08:45:39 <t_s_o> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20081202
Dec 02 08:59:44 <aquatix> http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/02/nokia-unveils-flagship-n97-phone/ <- more info on the N97 for whoever is interested
Dec 02 09:00:36 <bergie> shame it isn't maemo
Dec 02 09:00:41 <aquatix> yeah
Dec 02 09:01:01 <aquatix> otoh, the resolution might be a tad low for maemo
Dec 02 09:01:18 <aquatix> and there needs to be some gsm-related maemo apps then
Dec 02 09:01:55 <bergie> telepathy backends for calling and SMS would be nice :-)
Dec 02 09:02:22 <bergie> then you could use the existing IM app
Dec 02 09:02:23 <aquatix> heh, indeed :)
Dec 02 09:07:06 <t_s_o> http://events.nokia.com/nokiaworld/ <- presentation video
Dec 02 09:09:29 <Stskeeps> could be interesting if you could switch between symbian and maemo on it..
Dec 02 09:15:26 <t_s_o> now thats interesting, when playing around with the nokia product selector, checking "web browser with html" the N810 is hidden, but the N810w remains...
Dec 02 09:19:02 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Dec 02 09:24:51 <t_s_o> i wonder what pockets some people aim for. skintight jeans?
Dec 02 09:25:27 <RST38h> N97!
Dec 02 09:25:29 <RST38h> Yahooooo!
Dec 02 09:26:01 <RST38h> Will probably sell for $1000+ but what the hell
Dec 02 09:26:48 <t_s_o> hehe
Dec 02 09:27:01 <t_s_o> hmm, whats this rumour going around about a nokia 10" computer?
Dec 02 09:27:43 <Jaffa> Oh?
Dec 02 09:29:53 <t_s_o> http://www.cellular-news.com/story/34920.php
Dec 02 09:34:09 <Jaffa> Hmm
Dec 02 09:39:55 <RST38h> t_s_o: Easily solved
Dec 02 09:40:20 <RST38h> t_s_o: Look at the leaked list of available development samples. If it is there, the rumor has grounds. Otherwise, it is bullshit.
Dec 02 09:44:24 <mavhc> that's the reason I bought an n810, half the price of a similar smartphone
Dec 02 09:45:15 <johnx> be interesting to see if that remains true when they pack an HSPA modem into it
Dec 02 09:45:51 <t_s_o> RST38h: thing is, that list may well only be leaked from the phone department. iirc, it didnt list a N900 or equivalent, only symbian running devices
Dec 02 09:51:31 * lcuk shivers
Dec 02 09:51:53 <t_s_o> turn up your heater then...
Dec 02 09:52:25 <RST38h> t_s_o: I would bet 8:2 that they have got a common HW list
Dec 02 09:52:50 <RST38h> absolutely no reason to have two absolutely independent HW teams with their own lists
Dec 02 09:53:07 <t_s_o> in others words, no now maemo device in the future either?
Dec 02 09:53:40 <RST38h> Why?
Dec 02 09:54:18 <t_s_o> iirc, the list didnt show any maemo device
Dec 02 09:54:20 * RST38h quietly salivates over N97 meanwhile
Dec 02 09:54:43 <RST38h> t_s_o: They might not have the sample at the time the list was leaked
Dec 02 09:55:14 <t_s_o> and the 10" computer could be a recent development...
Dec 02 09:55:35 <t_s_o> basically, the relevancy of the leaked document is dropping rapidly...
Dec 02 09:57:39 <RST38h>     * The Nokia N97 is expected to ship in the first half of 2009 (presumably in June) with an estimated price of 550 Euro before taxes and subsidies.
Dec 02 09:57:42 <RST38h> Comparison
Dec 02 09:58:00 <johnx> well they sure seem to have prototypes in hand a long ways before release
Dec 02 09:58:05 <RST38h> The release date coincides with suspected N900 release date
Dec 02 09:58:26 <t_s_o> hmm, dug up the list (kinda bothersome as engadget had tossed it thanks to some lawyers) and it ends around week 17 2009. thats about april. so plenty of time for new stuff to be added...
Dec 02 09:58:40 <RST38h> true
Dec 02 09:59:24 <RST38h> N97 screen size is just 640x360. Is it less than 5800?
Dec 02 10:01:21 <Dasajev> the same
Dec 02 10:01:26 <t_s_o> same stuff...
Dec 02 10:02:06 <t_s_o> looking at a side by side comparison, the N97 is a 5800 with keyboard ;)
Dec 02 10:02:14 <johnx> They're the same OS, right?
Dec 02 10:02:21 <johnx> or the same version of S60 I mean
Dec 02 10:03:01 <t_s_o> yep
Dec 02 10:03:27 <t_s_o> ok, biggest diff, camera and internal storage. the N97 has 32GB!
Dec 02 10:04:00 <lardman> do we have the spec of the n97 anywhere?
Dec 02 10:05:33 <t_s_o> http://www.newmobile.com/Nokia-N97/
Dec 02 10:05:47 <RST38h> S60e5
Dec 02 10:05:48 <lardman> t_s_o: thanks
Dec 02 10:06:09 <lardman> omap3...?
Dec 02 10:07:01 <t_s_o> no clue
Dec 02 10:07:19 <RST38h> will be funny if not
Dec 02 10:07:28 <t_s_o> hmm, seems the screen tilt is not optional, like it is on the htc tytn2...
Dec 02 10:10:18 <RST38h> notice - still no digit buttons and that uncomfortable d-pad
Dec 02 10:10:57 <johnx> heh...you have to buy a gaming system these days to get a decent d-pad :)
Dec 02 10:11:44 <t_s_o> im not sure even those have one, most seem to focus on analog sticks these days...
Dec 02 10:11:51 <lardman> X-Fade: it has a compass
Dec 02 10:11:59 <lardman> X-Fade: which is what I thought
Dec 02 10:12:22 <johnx> t_s_o, well, I'm thinking of one in particular...
Dec 02 10:12:39 <t_s_o> now what could that be?
Dec 02 10:12:52 <johnx> :P hint: runs linux, has omap3
Dec 02 10:12:58 <t_s_o> :P
Dec 02 10:13:09 <t_s_o> now to get hold of one...
Dec 02 10:13:34 <lardman> johnx: hmm, I wonder when the hardware issues will be ironed out though....
Dec 02 10:13:46 * johnx shrugs
Dec 02 10:14:20 <johnx> I'm happy enough for now just poking at stuff in Mer
Dec 02 10:15:00 <lardman> yeah, just that I don't want to waste money on it if the Nokia device is out soon
Dec 02 10:15:26 <johnx> fair enough.
Dec 02 10:15:40 <johnx> I'll be passing on at least the next round of tablets though
Dec 02 10:16:20 <lardman> ah
Dec 02 10:17:37 <LiraNuna_> anyone with the N810 WiMax here?
Dec 02 10:19:26 <Meiz_n810> WiMax is a lot better than wlan.. i would like to see it getting some space from wlan...
Dec 02 10:19:52 <lardman> I don't think we have wimax over here
Dec 02 10:20:09 <Meiz_n810> where do you live?
Dec 02 10:20:14 <lardman> England
Dec 02 10:20:18 <Meiz_n810> k
Dec 02 10:20:29 <Meiz_n810> i am in finland
Dec 02 10:20:36 <lardman> certainly no hype about it here anyway
Dec 02 10:20:58 <Meiz_n810> there is like one wimax spot in the country...
Dec 02 10:21:04 <lardman> :)
Dec 02 10:21:13 <Myrtti> Meiz_n810: Ruoholahti ;-)
Dec 02 10:21:15 <lardman> got to start somewhere hey?
Dec 02 10:21:27 <Myrtti> Meiz_n810: perhaps Hervanta
Dec 02 10:21:30 <Meiz_n810> Myrtti: k
Dec 02 10:21:38 <Myrtti> no, I don't know in reality
Dec 02 10:21:40 <Myrtti> just guessing
Dec 02 10:22:10 <towo> I regret having the same telephone number as my windows colleague.
Dec 02 10:23:27 <aquatix> towo: :(
Dec 02 10:23:28 <lardman> johnx: though reading the fora that latest update is more optimistic
Dec 02 10:24:47 <LiraNuna_> I want to know what will work (or not) with deblet on N810 WiMAX
Dec 02 10:24:59 <LiraNuna_> I foresee WiMAX not working, and that's fine
Dec 02 10:26:48 <johnx> lardman, meh. it will be released at some point before the rx-51/n900 and I'm thinking that the rx-51 will be at least a $100 premium for an HSPA modem and camera I have no intention of using
Dec 02 10:27:51 <RST38h> If N900 is going to replace N810, it will have to be about the same in price
Dec 02 10:28:36 <johnx> RST38h, don't be so sure. They're apparently going to call it a different name and slapping a wimax modem in the old n810 sure put a premium on that
Dec 02 10:29:35 <Meiz_n810> Comparing pandora and rx-51... rx-51 probably has bigger screen resolution...
Dec 02 10:30:04 <johnx> I'll bet dollars to donuts it's 800x480
Dec 02 10:31:38 <Meiz_n810> i bet rx-51 screen will be 1024x600
Dec 02 10:32:01 <johnx> well, the fremantle themes will certainly give us a clue
Dec 02 10:32:43 <ShadowJK> Meiz_n810, there are several wimax operators in the country...
Dec 02 10:33:33 <Meiz_n810> k
Dec 02 10:40:20 <ShadowJK> but I don't think any of them use the same frequency as N810W :)
Dec 02 10:49:39 <t_s_o> ok, im seriosly in love with dbus-switchboard now that it has a gui :D
Dec 02 10:52:45 <johnx> a GUI? I really have to look at that
Dec 02 10:57:08 <t_s_o> that and gpe file manager have allowed me to work around the issue of the maemo file manager and open file dialogs sometimes not showing enough of the file names...
Dec 02 11:01:49 <Stskeeps> 'lo johnx
Dec 02 11:02:18 <johnx> hey Stskeeps
Dec 02 11:02:24 <Stskeeps> how goes the h-d?
Dec 02 11:02:37 <johnx> building things with maemo-launcher support in jaunty is just not working it seems
Dec 02 11:02:49 <Stskeeps> curious .. gcc3 vs gcc4 difference maybe?
Dec 02 11:02:58 <johnx> possibly libtool?
Dec 02 11:03:02 <Stskeeps> that's a possibility too
Dec 02 11:03:15 <johnx> I can lead you up to where I got, but I think I'm getting out of my depth :/
Dec 02 11:04:10 <Stskeeps> i'll look into it i guess
Dec 02 11:07:04 <johnx> this seems to be the part of the Makefile meant to do the magic: http://pastebin.com/m76c91e08
Dec 02 11:10:58 <Stskeeps> does it run autogen.sh in rules?
Dec 02 11:11:06 <johnx> yes
Dec 02 11:11:09 <Stskeeps> hmm
Dec 02 11:11:18 <Stskeeps> i'll take a look when i'm home i guess
Dec 02 11:11:27 <johnx> ah, that's the other thing: I can't get anyone's hildon-desktop package to do the maemo-launcher magic in jaunty
Dec 02 11:11:34 <johnx> ah, sure. no rush
Dec 02 11:11:49 <Stskeeps> going to make a image builder for an atom board for mer :P
Dec 02 11:12:21 <Stskeeps> if you are in need of something less frustrating, we need to package tslib and omapfb again
Dec 02 11:12:37 <Stskeeps> and possibly linking it with the upstream omapfb driver (sits on git)
Dec 02 11:12:58 <johnx> yeah, that sounds comparatively pleasant  :)
Dec 02 11:13:01 <johnx> I'll take a look
Dec 02 11:13:18 <Stskeeps> where's your h-d branch at?
Dec 02 11:14:00 <johnx> I've been working with the vanilla stage.maemo.org one to minimize guesswork at what might be making it fail
Dec 02 11:14:04 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 02 11:14:12 <johnx> exact same symptoms in all of them
Dec 02 11:14:44 <johnx> also, Makefile reference and how it's expanded: http://pastebin.com/m4c10a624
Dec 02 11:14:57 <johnx> I mean, it *looks* right >_<
Dec 02 11:15:00 <Stskeeps> and i guess we test on i386?
Dec 02 11:15:38 <johnx> yeah
Dec 02 11:15:50 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 02 11:15:55 <Stskeeps> makes it easier to debug .:P
Dec 02 11:16:07 <johnx> yeah, would have gone crazy doing arm builds
Dec 02 11:16:50 <johnx> qwerty12 tested for me inside scratchbox both ARM and x86 with the tags 2.0.19-1 version
Dec 02 11:16:54 <johnx> both build as shared objects
Dec 02 11:16:57 <Stskeeps> *nod*
Dec 02 11:17:36 <Stskeeps> i'm also slowly moving repo and all mer-related things to a chroot
Dec 02 11:18:08 <Stskeeps> .. it'll be sitting in my basement
Dec 02 11:18:08 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 11:18:49 <johnx> planning on hosting the repo on your home internet connection?
Dec 02 11:19:06 <Stskeeps> well, the master one and then mirroring it out
Dec 02 11:19:20 <Stskeeps> trac was already on my home conn so
Dec 02 11:19:43 <Stskeeps> but it's been hit by some odd bandwidth management where it's sitting atm so
Dec 02 11:20:30 <johnx> ah, ick
Dec 02 11:22:14 <Stskeeps> also i have a server with raid that's doing absolutely nothing, so :p
Dec 02 11:31:20 <Stskeeps> you know of any good platforms that does bzr hosting?
Dec 02 11:31:39 <Stskeeps> i start to dislike lp more and more
Dec 02 11:32:16 <johnx> I really don't
Dec 02 11:32:17 <Stskeeps> but that might just be me..
Dec 02 11:32:17 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 11:32:19 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 02 11:32:24 <Stskeeps> well more as in products
Dec 02 11:32:34 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: you want alioth pkg-maemo access? :P
Dec 02 11:33:00 <johnx> "pkg-config --libs libosso" returns "-L//lib -losso -ldbus-glib-1 -ldbus-1 -lgobject-2.0 -lglib-2.0"
Dec 02 11:33:04 <johnx> that looks odd to me ...
Dec 02 11:33:18 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: what software does alioth run?
Dec 02 11:33:29 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: gforge
Dec 02 11:33:34 <Stskeeps> gforce supports bzr?
Dec 02 11:33:37 <suihkulokki> (forked, as usual)
Dec 02 11:33:53 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 02 11:34:09 <Stskeeps> maemo.org was a gforge too wasn't it?
Dec 02 11:34:10 <suihkulokki> not real bzr support, put it provides authentication to bzr.debian.org
Dec 02 11:34:17 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 02 11:46:38 * Stskeeps sees if there's anything new on the stage today
Dec 02 11:46:55 <bergie> Stskeeps: garage.maemo.org is gforge, maemo.org is Midgard
Dec 02 11:47:21 <Stskeeps> bergie: thanks
Dec 02 11:47:29 <bergie> and garage will probably start doing git in near future
Dec 02 11:48:01 <Stskeeps> seems like it has a git plugin too
Dec 02 11:50:52 <bergie> Stskeeps: http://wiki.maemo.org/Git_For_Garage
Dec 02 11:53:06 <Stskeeps> any idea if stage.maemo.org svn switch to git too or?
Dec 02 11:53:24 <bergie> no idea except what it says in that wiki page
Dec 02 11:53:38 <Stskeeps> alright
Dec 02 11:53:49 <Stskeeps> sounds like a good plan though :) may encourage contribution
Dec 02 12:04:36 * Stskeeps ponders trac or just continuing with launchpad
Dec 02 12:05:42 <bergie> Trac is quite sweet
Dec 02 12:06:41 <Stskeeps> yeah, but the question is always if it is collaborative enough
Dec 02 12:14:42 * lcuk burps
Dec 02 12:55:43 <RST38h> yawn?
Dec 02 13:01:56 <Stskeeps> yawn.
Dec 02 13:02:11 <RST38h> Not excited by N97? =)
Dec 02 13:02:44 <Stskeeps> i wouldn't mind it as a tablet.
Dec 02 13:02:49 <Stskeeps> but symbian makes me cringe.
Dec 02 13:03:17 <RST38h> Ah come on, it does the job
Dec 02 13:03:18 <Stskeeps> and price level is quite high
Dec 02 13:03:22 <johnx> if I was gonna go closed source, full featured smart-phone I would probably just get an iphone and be done with it
Dec 02 13:03:24 <RST38h> e550?
Dec 02 13:03:41 <RST38h> johnx: iPhone is a fashion item, N97 is a tool
Dec 02 13:03:55 <`Mace> hm
Dec 02 13:03:57 <RST38h> (even although Nokia is screaming that it is a fashion item :))
Dec 02 13:03:59 <Stskeeps> RST38h: i wouldn't mind a tablet "kit", - like, insertable touch screen, etc
Dec 02 13:04:01 <Stskeeps> casing
Dec 02 13:04:04 <`Mace> wtf do you need for nero recode to work with 5.1?
Dec 02 13:04:07 <Stskeeps> so you can build your own sizes
Dec 02 13:04:09 <RST38h> Sts: Why not Beagle then?
Dec 02 13:04:15 <johnx> RST38h, you drank the anti-koolaid, or the Nokia-brand koolaid or something...
Dec 02 13:04:22 <Stskeeps> RST38h: .. got one
Dec 02 13:04:37 <RST38h> johnx: I drunk koolaid (real one) exactly one time in my life
Dec 02 13:04:57 <Stskeeps> RST38h: actually, got two
Dec 02 13:05:02 <RST38h> johnx: I remember it from having to wash the floor with heavy detergent to get rid of the colored spots
Dec 02 13:05:11 <johnx> ahaha
Dec 02 13:05:15 <RST38h> Sts: Ah, then just stick them together for a bigger screen!
Dec 02 13:05:27 <johnx> I grew up on the stuff so I'm mostly immune to the weaponized marketing version
Dec 02 13:06:23 <RST38h> johnx: having said that, no memory cards, no BT, and no programmability make iPhone useless for me
Dec 02 13:06:46 <Stskeeps> RST38h: well when i speak of kit.. stylish casings, integrated battery, board, ability to replace casing with a bigger one and insert bigger touch screen..
Dec 02 13:06:48 <RST38h> Overpriced toy with strings, sorry
Dec 02 13:06:56 <Stskeeps> so if i wanted a 14" tablet, i could make it
Dec 02 13:07:01 <Stskeeps> like desktop pcs
Dec 02 13:07:10 <RST38h> Sts: Yes but how do you get BOTH ability to modify and the stylish factor in the same package?
Dec 02 13:07:33 <`Mace> hm
Dec 02 13:07:35 <Stskeeps> RST38h: well, different casings, possibly
Dec 02 13:07:41 <`Mace> i wonder if the android install on the n95 is for real
Dec 02 13:07:47 <`Mace> i would love to get rid of symbian
Dec 02 13:07:49 <Stskeeps> `Mace: the verdict is still out on that one
Dec 02 13:07:56 <Stskeeps> `Mace: i wouldn't mind trying out debian on a n95.. :P
Dec 02 13:08:00 <johnx> RST38h, exactly. spending a lot of money on a phone I can't hack doesn't seem all that worthwhile to me. my next phone will probably be just a phone, likely with bt and 3g this time
Dec 02 13:08:03 <`Mace> yeah... you would figure there would be more information about it
Dec 02 13:08:04 <RST38h> Sts: Wouldn't you want to upgrade the hw too, as faster CPUs become available?
Dec 02 13:08:12 <`Mace> especially since the video is a couple months old
Dec 02 13:08:18 <Stskeeps> RST38h: replacing the soc is fine for me
Dec 02 13:08:26 <RST38h> johnx: Actually, N97 would probably do it for me as a replacement for E70
Dec 02 13:08:44 <RST38h> Sts; Then why not replace the whole thing at once - display, SoC, casing? ;)
Dec 02 13:09:01 <RST38h> johnx: the keyboard is definitely worse than E70's but you can't have it all
Dec 02 13:09:05 <Stskeeps> RST38h: cos that requires a company to model those then
Dec 02 13:09:16 <`Mace> i'm so sick of symbian on my n95
Dec 02 13:09:17 <RST38h> Sts: Nokia or HTC
Dec 02 13:09:18 <Stskeeps> and i want to customize the tablets to my house/needs
Dec 02 13:09:19 <RST38h> Choose one
Dec 02 13:09:25 <`Mace> wonder if there is something else i can put on it
Dec 02 13:09:25 <Stskeeps> and not based on marketing
Dec 02 13:09:45 <RST38h> Mace: Should have known better than buying an overpriced brickphone
Dec 02 13:09:58 <`Mace> i love my n95.. just don't like symbian that much
Dec 02 13:10:03 <Stskeeps> `Mace: look into if anyone managed to flash anything on top of a n95 :P
Dec 02 13:10:08 <johnx> finally got a noopt build of gtk for ARM done and it's broken >_<
Dec 02 13:10:11 <glass_> Stskeeps: afaik no
Dec 02 13:10:12 <`Mace> i mean it's not BAD.. i just want a little more off it ;)
Dec 02 13:10:17 <RST38h> What exactly is a problem with Symbian? It makes things tick
Dec 02 13:10:32 <RST38h> What "more" do you want?
Dec 02 13:10:32 <glass_> RST38h: it's that people think they'd get more if it run qtopia phone ed or something
Dec 02 13:10:35 <`Mace> i don't know if i can give a good reference
Dec 02 13:10:37 <glass_> having never tried them
Dec 02 13:10:53 <RST38h> glass: Poor guys, tempted by ephemeral penguin
Dec 02 13:10:55 <`Mace> well.. symbian is a little more difficult to tweak
Dec 02 13:11:09 <RST38h> Mace: No, what exactly do you want from your N95?
Dec 02 13:11:17 <glass_> `Mace: would a closede linux be better? try some motorolas
Dec 02 13:11:33 <glass_> and well if you're the hackety type you can do quite a bit with symbian
Dec 02 13:11:43 <glass_> programming phonefeaturewise etc
Dec 02 13:12:04 <RST38h> Symbian is pretty much hackable, as long as you are prepared to search and read documentation
Dec 02 13:12:17 <RST38h> But before you do that, you should know exactly just WHAT you want to do
Dec 02 13:12:17 <glass_> and tear your hair
Dec 02 13:12:21 <glass_> yeah
Dec 02 13:13:30 <johnx> yeah, I've kind of accepted that right now there's nothing that's "hackable linux" and "usable as a phone"
Dec 02 13:14:13 <Stskeeps> yeah, openmoko doesn't qualify for the last :P
Dec 02 13:14:25 <RST38h> "What I found most impressive is that users simply looking for a no-nonsense, practical tool will find the N97 is worth a second look" (C)TheRegister
Dec 02 13:14:35 <RST38h> Reading my mind, ain't they?
Dec 02 13:15:07 <ShadowJK> The most sensible way to code apps for symbian is in python, which is saying something
Dec 02 13:15:24 <RST38h> Sts: Btw, wherever you say "openmoko" you should be able to say "pandora" in a half a year ;)
Dec 02 13:15:29 <johnx> so I might as well buy a phone that's just a tool for making phone calls, a "phone appliance" if you will and continue carrying a separate "mobile computer"
Dec 02 13:15:46 <RST38h> ShadowJK: It is sayng that you have not taken time trying to learn how to do it in C or C++
Dec 02 13:15:55 <johnx> RST38h, they're adding a phone to the pandora? :P
Dec 02 13:16:09 <ShadowJK> RST38h, well I'd need to invest in a new computer and buy Windows first too
Dec 02 13:16:17 <RST38h> johnx: Ok, replace "phone" with ;gaming system" or whatever fits the description
Dec 02 13:16:31 <RST38h> ShadowJK: On other words, you have not tried
Dec 02 13:16:50 <suihkulokki> reliability req's for a gaming device is quite different from a phone
Dec 02 13:16:51 <johnx> RST38h, Actually, the emulators are shaping up nicely it appears, the battery life looks good
Dec 02 13:16:55 <RST38h> ShadowJK: Well, I had to install Ubuntu just to develop for Maemo too :)
Dec 02 13:17:19 <johnx> RST38h, whether it's a usable PDA/mobile linux platform depends on how portable fremantle is I think :)
Dec 02 13:17:21 <ShadowJK> RST38h, I went with python because it didn't require me to shell out more money
Dec 02 13:18:11 <Stskeeps> hmm. can a x86 pc act as usb gadget?
Dec 02 13:18:13 <RST38h> johnx: heh :)
Dec 02 13:18:39 <RST38h> ShadowJK: [smiling sadistically] But you can run Windows inside a VMware appliance! B)
Dec 02 13:18:43 <aquatix> ok, anyone in Nokia here that can ship me that N97 Soon(tm)? :)
Dec 02 13:19:08 <johnx> like "Soon(tm)" in terms of geological time?
Dec 02 13:19:12 <ShadowJK> RST38h, supposedly it even works in qemu, but I don't have any windows newer than win98, would that work? :-)
Dec 02 13:19:30 <RST38h> ShadowJK: Isn't this what Nokia guys tell to us, poor sods who are tied to Windows?
Dec 02 13:19:50 <RST38h> ShadowJK: My guess is that Win98 will do just fine with Symbian/S60 SDK
Dec 02 13:19:54 <ShadowJK> hm
Dec 02 13:19:56 <johnx> linux live disks actually work though :P
Dec 02 13:20:22 <RST38h> The Symbian simulator prolly won't work but screw it anyway
Dec 02 13:21:12 <aquatix> johnx: in terms as `damn, that's a nice christmas present'
Dec 02 13:21:20 <GAN800> t_s_o, what sort of mods do you think we're gonna dredge up? :/
Dec 02 13:21:22 <aquatix> christmas 2008 that is ;)
Dec 02 13:21:39 <johnx> aquatix, ah, you caught that before I finished typing
Dec 02 13:21:41 <johnx> :P
Dec 02 13:21:43 <RST38h> aquatix: you will probably have to start celebrating 4th of July
Dec 02 13:21:46 <aquatix> johnx: ;)
Dec 02 13:21:56 <RST38h> aquatix: 'cause that is when N97 is gonna arrive
Dec 02 13:21:57 <aquatix> RST38h: no way going to do that ;)
Dec 02 13:22:01 <aquatix> ah
Dec 02 13:22:15 <aquatix> well, i'll just celebrate aquatix.gadgets++ day then
Dec 02 13:35:32 * RST38h wonders what will happen when some time in December we find out that Fremantle SDK uses 640x360 screen size
Dec 02 13:35:58 <Stskeeps> torches
Dec 02 13:36:16 <RST38h> And somewhere before the next summer it becomes clear that "N900" is just an N97 with an alternative OS
Dec 02 13:36:24 <Stskeeps> i'm not entirely sure i would mind
Dec 02 13:36:41 <GAN800> That's not gonna happen
Dec 02 13:36:47 <RST38h> GAN: Sure?
Dec 02 13:37:04 <RST38h> Specs seem to match what we know of N900
Dec 02 13:37:27 <johnx> RST38h, zaurus users will rejoice :)
Dec 02 13:37:47 <ShadowJK> I wouldn't mind N97 with alternative OS
Dec 02 13:37:49 <RST38h> johnx: All 5 of them? =)
Dec 02 13:37:53 <ShadowJK> or N95 with alternative OS
Dec 02 13:37:58 <ShadowJK> or E71, etc :P
Dec 02 13:38:02 <RST38h> But it is a smaller screen, mind you
Dec 02 13:38:30 <johnx> RST38h, there are plenty but they're quiet for the most part since it seems like their devices actually do most of what they care about
Dec 02 13:39:48 <RST38h> I wonder if there are any Zoomer users left...
Dec 02 13:40:35 <johnx> I have no idea what that is...
Dec 02 13:40:55 * GAN800 is surprised the talk.maemo.org announcement didn't generate more noise.
Dec 02 13:40:58 <johnx> wait, found it
Dec 02 13:41:42 <RST38h> GAN: Just saw it. Cool
Dec 02 13:41:44 <GAN800> RST38h, the entire reason the tablets are useful devices is the resolution.
Dec 02 13:41:53 <RST38h> GAN: Exactly
Dec 02 13:42:02 <Stskeeps> GAN800: tablettalk.maemo.org sounds cooler than talk.maemo.org, and worries of censorship, but that's about it..
Dec 02 13:42:12 <Stskeeps> seems like nokia behaves on their own forums though
Dec 02 13:42:14 <RST38h> And 640x360 makes them useless for full-page PDF viewing
Dec 02 13:42:39 <johnx> PDFs make themselves useful for rendering on anything but the creator's monitor...
Dec 02 13:42:40 <Stskeeps> GAN800: and this just makes maemo.org community larger
Dec 02 13:42:41 <GAN800> Stskeeps, maemo.org is a community address. . . .
Dec 02 13:42:43 <johnx> s/useful/useless/
Dec 02 13:42:44 <infobot> johnx meant: PDFs make themselves useless for rendering on anything but the creator's monitor...
Dec 02 13:42:45 <RST38h> Sts: You can have aliases, no problem there. As to censorship, I doubt you will see it in this particular case
Dec 02 13:42:54 <Stskeeps> yeah, and i doubt it too
Dec 02 13:43:11 <RST38h> johnx: Ah, they are ok, especially without alternatives
Dec 02 13:43:11 <GAN800> there wont be censorship
Dec 02 13:43:15 <GAN800> period.
Dec 02 13:43:37 <GAN800> I'll personally assure that. :)
Dec 02 13:43:45 <johnx> RST38h, yeah, once you convert them to html and reflow them...
Dec 02 13:43:50 <RST38h> Yahooooooo! XP booted!
Dec 02 13:44:01 <Stskeeps> .. on your N95? :>
Dec 02 13:44:12 <RST38h> johnx: I have got quite a few converted from old paper documentation scans. Can't do much about them =(
Dec 02 13:44:22 <GAN800> The servers aren't being changed and 'new admins' basically means 'X-Fade'
Dec 02 13:44:30 <johnx> ocr -> pdftohtml -> enjoy
Dec 02 13:44:33 <RST38h> Sts: this part is classified.
Dec 02 13:44:46 <RST38h> johnx: No longer have original docs
Dec 02 13:44:46 <johnx> May I suggest fbreader for long html files
Dec 02 13:44:50 <GAN800> You've all seen what a heavy hand he has on the lists :roll:
Dec 02 13:44:59 <Stskeeps> GAN800: does this mean council members have control over iTT? :>
Dec 02 13:45:17 <GAN800> Stskeeps, I'm not interested in that myself.
Dec 02 13:45:19 <Stskeeps> hehe
Dec 02 13:45:45 * RST38h will be delighted to run around the forums screaming "THE HAVE KILLED KAREL!"
Dec 02 13:45:47 <GAN800> But their position kinda == root@maemo.org
Dec 02 13:45:50 <RST38h> s/THE/THEY
Dec 02 13:46:20 <johnx> RST38h, what will kill him is maemo on pandora :)
Dec 02 13:46:27 <GAN800> Reggie's still at the wheel.
Dec 02 13:46:53 <GAN800> maemo.org is just is just ridding shotgun now. :)
Dec 02 13:47:28 <Jaffa> Also, "tablet" talk won't be so appropriate when they drop the "Internet Tablet" moniiker
Dec 02 13:47:57 <RST38h> johnx: There is still chance he will suicide when Pandora does not arrive in June
Dec 02 13:48:24 <GAN800> It was funny to see Peter talk about Maemo on N95s.
Dec 02 13:48:36 <RST38h> Jaffa: I see no problem in having a DNS alias
Dec 02 13:48:40 <Stskeeps> GAN800: @Marketing?
Dec 02 13:48:48 <GAN800> Stskeeps, yeah
Dec 02 13:49:02 <RST38h> Jaffa: If there are people who like tablettalk.maemo.org and it does not cost anything, why not give them an alias?
Dec 02 13:49:03 <Stskeeps> GAN800: nokia should really do an attempt in taking an older model, give community specs to get things booting..
Dec 02 13:49:16 <Stskeeps> and see what comes out of it
Dec 02 13:49:20 <Stskeeps> (based on maemo, of course)
Dec 02 13:49:26 <RST38h> GAN: Is he a real thing or a busybody not related to Nokia?
Dec 02 13:49:39 <GAN800> Stskeeps, Nokia has never been much for community support. :p
Dec 02 13:49:43 <Stskeeps> GAN800: sadly :P
Dec 02 13:49:51 <GAN800> RST38h, Quim's boss.
Dec 02 13:50:00 <RST38h> GAN: Ah, cool!
Dec 02 13:50:04 <GAN800> s/community/legacy/
Dec 02 13:50:11 <Stskeeps> GAN800: still good publicity :P
Dec 02 13:50:20 <GAN800> Yeah
Dec 02 13:50:21 <RST38h> So, there is a guy between Quim and Ari?
Dec 02 13:50:51 <GAN800> I bet 3rd party vendors like imagination tech are an issue thougj
Dec 02 13:51:02 <GAN800> RST38h, yes.
Dec 02 13:51:16 <Stskeeps> "organisational chart of maemo.org and maemo sw"
Dec 02 13:51:17 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 13:51:20 <Stskeeps> so needed
Dec 02 13:51:26 <GAN800> RST38h, that was my first reaction, to.
Dec 02 13:51:31 <GAN800> s/to/too/
Dec 02 13:51:31 <infobot> GAN800 meant: RST38h, that was my first reaction, too.
Dec 02 13:51:39 <GAN800> Stskeeps, seriously.
Dec 02 13:51:53 <GAN800> They are a publicly traded company.
Dec 02 13:52:05 <GAN800> That should entitle us to SOMETHING. :P
Dec 02 13:52:08 <Stskeeps> hehe
Dec 02 13:52:23 <abinader> :q
Dec 02 13:52:30 <abinader> oops! :P
Dec 02 13:52:39 <GAN800> Though it'd be hilarious to put together a chart based on what we know.
Dec 02 13:53:31 <GAN800> 'OK, there's Ari up at the top, the over in marketing we have Peter telling Quim what to do, then ragnar's got the UI stuff . . .'
Dec 02 13:53:43 <GAN800> s/the/then/
Dec 02 13:53:44 <infobot> GAN800 meant: 'OK, thenre's Ari up at the top, the over in marketing we have Peter telling Quim what to do, then ragnar's got the UI stuff . . .'
Dec 02 13:54:13 <RST38h> Out of all tholse, you only want the people who make technical decisions
Dec 02 13:54:36 <GAN800> The product managers we NEVER see
Dec 02 13:55:02 <GAN800> Even though some, like Rodrigo (desktop), are on Freenode. . . .
Dec 02 13:55:11 <RST38h> Finding common language with the marketing is going to be complicated by definition
Dec 02 13:55:40 <aquatix> brrr... marketing
Dec 02 13:55:46 <johnx> well at least "What the hell is Maemo?!" is finally explained...
Dec 02 13:56:04 <GAN800> Well, so far, we've got Peter and Quim and they aint too bad. ;)
Dec 02 13:56:30 <GAN800> johnx, it's a development platform, didn't you hear? :p
Dec 02 13:56:52 <johnx> I mean Maemo 5 not being OS2009
Dec 02 13:57:10 <GAN800> I'm kidding. ;)
Dec 02 13:57:20 <johnx> ah, wasn't sure :P
Dec 02 13:58:23 <GAN800> That's what it USED to ne
Dec 02 13:58:27 <GAN800> s/ne/be/
Dec 02 13:58:27 <infobot> GAN800 meant: That's what it USED to be
Dec 02 13:58:36 <johnx> well, according to some people
Dec 02 13:58:49 <GAN800> Before Nokia decided they wanted to use the trademark for themselves.
Dec 02 13:59:13 <GAN800> No, seriously, maemo was the development platform
Dec 02 13:59:39 <GAN800> Many people may have used it to describe other things, but it really was just the DP.
Dec 02 14:00:06 <johnx> well, yeah, but then there was maemo.org hosting software, packages called maemo-desktop and the OS the tablets run being called "Maemo Linux"
Dec 02 14:00:32 <GAN800> it was never called that
Dec 02 14:00:43 <GAN800> Not by Nokia, anyway
Dec 02 14:00:46 <johnx> granted, Nokia didn't coin that last one
Dec 02 14:00:57 <johnx> but they didn't offer anything besides OS200x
Dec 02 14:00:59 <Jaffa> Do we know the screen res of an N97 yet? The d-pad on http://conversations.nokia.com/.a/6a00d834574c6e69e201053630d120970c-800wi looks awfully familiar
Dec 02 14:01:09 <johnx> 640x360 ?
Dec 02 14:01:16 <GAN800> Nokia was always consistent in their usage, even if the community was not.
Dec 02 14:01:20 <RST38h> Jaffa: The whole thing is familiar - just look at the virtual keyboard screen in S60e5
Dec 02 14:01:39 <johnx> maemo-desktop? that's what now? the desktop of my development environment?
Dec 02 14:01:48 <RST38h> hildon-desktop maybe?
Dec 02 14:01:53 <johnx> well it is now :)
Dec 02 14:02:14 <Jaffa> Ah, 640x360 for N97 apparently
Dec 02 14:02:32 <johnx> anyways, things are clear now, I'm happy, case closed, returns to hacking
Dec 02 14:03:56 <GAN800> lol, 'buying a community'
Dec 02 14:04:29 <GAN800> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25297&page=6
Dec 02 14:05:21 <johnx> it has a certain truth to it
Dec 02 14:05:27 <johnx> but it's more like a rent-to-own program
Dec 02 14:05:36 <johnx> leasing a community?
Dec 02 14:05:39 <GAN800> RX-51 has got to have at least 32GB onboard
Dec 02 14:05:41 * timeless looks up
Dec 02 14:06:01 <johnx> GAN800, nah, tablets must be made out of Nokia spare parts. That's the rule. :)
Dec 02 14:06:08 <timeless> it's true!
Dec 02 14:06:36 * Stskeeps wonders where the big touch screens came from then
Dec 02 14:07:42 <johnx> what was the screen size on the older touchscreen Nokia phones?
Dec 02 14:10:18 <johnx> ah, 4 inches and 4.5 inches? maybe the next one was going to be 4.3"? :)
Dec 02 14:10:40 <Stskeeps> hehe
Dec 02 14:11:12 <johnx> what's the trick for having dch append mer instead of ubuntu while packaging?
Dec 02 14:11:25 <Stskeeps> i'm not sure, i do it manually
Dec 02 14:11:29 <Stskeeps> if you find out, please do say
Dec 02 14:11:42 <GAN800> I've found I just don't care about phones anymore
Dec 02 14:11:54 <Stskeeps> heh, i usually use my tablet
Dec 02 14:12:03 <Stskeeps> using skype on it to talk to my gf while she's in berlin
Dec 02 14:12:13 <Stskeeps> tablet in pocket, headset plugged into tablet
Dec 02 14:12:23 <GAN800> They're all totally crippled by software.
Dec 02 14:13:08 <johnx> GAN800, exactly! that's what I was getting at earlier. and if that's the case, they might as well be an appliance and do as little as possible
Dec 02 14:13:38 <GAN800> Which is where I'm at with my current Samsung
Dec 02 14:13:40 * timeless frowns
Dec 02 14:13:49 <timeless> they really have auto rotation working?
Dec 02 14:14:02 <GAN800> Small, 3g, makes ans receives phonecalls.
Dec 02 14:14:09 <GAN800> Sounds like it.
Dec 02 14:14:20 <johnx> preferably with lots of battery life and bt
Dec 02 14:14:41 <Stskeeps> i wouldn't mind my cellphone simply functioning as a device that provides voice-over-whatever streams and connectivity.
Dec 02 14:15:02 <Stskeeps> that wires into my tablet
Dec 02 14:15:13 <GAN800> Battery life is starting to wane
Dec 02 14:15:26 <GAN800> I'm due for a contract renewal soon
Dec 02 14:15:40 <GAN800> Not sure if I want a new phone or just get a new battery
Dec 02 14:15:45 * timeless sighs
Dec 02 14:15:49 <timeless> nokia and user interfaces...
Dec 02 14:15:58 <Stskeeps> i'm pondering to see if my usb cable for my s-e phone (which supports ACM/ethernet emulation) pulls any power from my tablet at all
Dec 02 14:15:59 <GAN800> As there's nothing out there that looks remotely interesting.
Dec 02 14:16:12 * timeless wonders what the three empty buttons on the application screen do
Dec 02 14:16:15 <timeless> 'crash'? :)
Dec 02 14:18:33 <Stskeeps> hm, what's iphone battery life like anyway?
Dec 02 14:19:56 <GAN800> Somebody slap thoughtfix with some capital M's . . . http://tabletblog.com/2008/12/nokias-latest-n97-takes-away-need-for.html
Dec 02 14:22:35 <Stskeeps> video on here, http://gizmodo.com/5100707/nokia-n97-unveiled-the-first-high+end-n+series-touch-phone does remind me of something clutter would be used for
Dec 02 14:24:02 <johnx> that would be a very sensible use IMHO
Dec 02 14:24:16 <Stskeeps> yeah
Dec 02 14:24:50 <Stskeeps> i'd actually consider that one, but i think i'm waiting for rx-51
Dec 02 14:25:20 <RST38h> GAN: Thoughtfix is essentially correct
Dec 02 14:25:35 <timeless> what did thoughtfix say?
Dec 02 14:27:37 <Stskeeps> johnx: are there any .jp like tablets though? alike NITs
Dec 02 14:28:27 <johnx> there is an absolute proliferation of multimedia dictionaries, think zaurus formfactor, proprietary OS, built in TV tuner, video player
Dec 02 14:28:40 <Stskeeps> interesting
Dec 02 14:29:05 <johnx> in fact the linux-based zaurus was just a dead-end road for sharp in that regard
Dec 02 14:29:24 <johnx> everyone just uses a phone
Dec 02 14:29:58 <Stskeeps> they're more like mini computers i guess?
Dec 02 14:30:21 <johnx> 3G is everywhere, websites are actually formatted for phones, and people have lots of time to use them one handed on the train
Dec 02 14:30:47 <johnx> nah, mostly blocky clamshells with crappy proprietary OSes, but lots and lots of features
Dec 02 14:31:38 <johnx> every basic phone has 3G, AGPS, but most just have a mobile web browser, not even opera mini
Dec 02 14:32:22 <Stskeeps> *nod*
Dec 02 14:33:40 <RST38h> mobile web browser == WAP?
Dec 02 14:33:49 <johnx> or something like it I guess
Dec 02 14:34:16 <johnx> my phone has opera. totally lucked out in that regard
Dec 02 14:34:47 <RST38h> johnx: Why not buy a European phone and use TMobile or whatever GSM provider has invaded .jp by now?
Dec 02 14:35:06 <johnx> there's no GSM network
Dec 02 14:35:16 <johnx> let that sink in for a while
Dec 02 14:35:28 <Stskeeps> if there was pervasive 3g/4g, i wouldn't care :P
Dec 02 14:35:38 <RST38h> johnx: I think there is some
Dec 02 14:36:10 <RST38h> NTT and Softbank seem to be using 3G 2100
Dec 02 14:36:20 <RST38h> That it standard enough
Dec 02 14:36:23 <johnx> right, but not GSM/GPRS
Dec 02 14:36:35 <RST38h> Why not use a 3G Nokia phone then?
Dec 02 14:37:05 <johnx> only some providers are actually friendly to signing foreigners up on contracts
Dec 02 14:37:13 <johnx> and pre-paid is a terrible scam here
Dec 02 14:39:05 * RST38h asks the Tentacled One to summarily teach those network operators a lesson
Dec 02 14:39:09 <johnx> RST38h, hmm, might have jumped the gun on which networks support GSM. pretty sure docomo doesn't though
Dec 02 14:39:33 <RST38h> johnx: TMobile had .jp operations afaik
Dec 02 14:39:49 <johnx> news to me
Dec 02 14:39:58 <johnx> never saw them represented in brick and mortar stores
Dec 02 14:40:13 <johnx> like I said though. I don't care much since I want my phone to be an appliance
Dec 02 14:40:46 <johnx> only thing it's missing is bluetooth
Dec 02 14:44:26 <ShadowJK> iirc japan avoided WAP like the plague. How sensible of them :)
Dec 02 14:45:03 <GAN800> Does anybody find the 'gender neutral' use of 'she' baffling?
Dec 02 14:45:12 <RST38h> ShadowJK: Still, I remember NTT talking head saying that they are integrating Java in their phones "because it is the only way to send and receive pictures"
Dec 02 14:45:22 <RST38h> GAN: I use "he".
Dec 02 14:45:26 <ShadowJK> GAN800, I've seen people use "hir" :-)
Dec 02 14:45:44 <RST38h> Except when talking about a computer user
Dec 02 14:46:02 <GAN800> 'they' works
Dec 02 14:46:14 <RST38h> 'they' will sound creepy
Dec 02 14:46:24 <GAN800> and it's in common enough usage these days.
Dec 02 14:46:54 <derf> "She" is not gender neutral.
Dec 02 14:47:45 <RST38h> Use 'it'.
Dec 02 14:48:16 * Stskeeps glances at the picopsu on his table
Dec 02 14:48:19 <RST38h> Or 'he/she'. Or '(s)he'
Dec 02 14:48:21 <Stskeeps> it's absurd how small this thing is
Dec 02 14:48:28 <GAN800> derf, clearly, but a lot of people use it like it is.
Dec 02 14:48:36 <Stskeeps> ( http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/it.A/id.417/.f )
Dec 02 14:48:42 <RST38h> Sts: The important thing is how bad it blows up
Dec 02 14:48:54 <derf> GAN800: Those people are dumb, or have a giant chip on their shoulder, or both.
Dec 02 14:48:59 <GAN800> h(or)sh/it
Dec 02 14:49:07 <RST38h> Oh yeeees
Dec 02 14:50:44 <RST38h> At least Russian grammar is free from this dilemma
Dec 02 14:51:24 <GAN800> Stskeeps, small things terrify me.
Dec 02 14:51:42 <johnx> Stskeeps, the executive summary is: for not very good reasons it's kind of a pain to make dch automatically append mer$n without modifying it or changing our lsb_release away from Ubuntu :| (AFAICT)
Dec 02 14:52:02 <johnx> RST38h, and full of other dilemmas?
Dec 02 14:52:51 <RST38h> johnx: not of this kind :)
Dec 02 14:53:15 <johnx> every language has its own new and special weirdness
Dec 02 14:53:19 <Stskeeps> johnx: neato
Dec 02 14:53:57 <johnx> changing dch and using a local version seems reasonable since it's just for convenience
Dec 02 14:54:00 <Stskeeps> yeah
Dec 02 14:54:04 <RST38h> johnx: The he/she one is more of political origin. Proper English requires you to use "he"
Dec 02 14:54:30 <johnx> no one speaks proper english :P
Dec 02 14:54:41 <johnx> it's a mythical beast, like unicorns and honest politicians
Dec 02 14:55:35 <aquatix> s/he\/she/it/g
Dec 02 14:56:04 <johnx> how about "the individual"
Dec 02 14:56:48 <RST38h> Use "the long pig"
Dec 02 14:57:05 <Stskeeps> let's use the character ~ for he/she
Dec 02 14:57:05 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 14:57:19 <johnx> Stskeeps++
Dec 02 14:57:37 <RST38h> Stskeeps: or "user"
Dec 02 14:57:50 <Stskeeps> $USER
Dec 02 14:57:50 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 14:58:41 * Stskeeps heads off to the bus
Dec 02 15:14:53 <johnx> the N97 UI looks a lot less slick on a real phone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?fs=1&v=AD-elt8MN3I
Dec 02 15:18:54 <RST38h> It doesn't look very slick on the Pr images as well
Dec 02 15:19:19 <RST38h> Don't think anybody expects it to look iphone-slick though...
Dec 02 15:20:17 <ShadowJK> needs more smudgemagnet paint
Dec 02 15:20:20 <johnx> well there was the PR video which had the applets rotating while the phone switched from portrait -> landscape
Dec 02 15:20:35 <johnx> which seems kind of misleading
Dec 02 15:20:38 <RST38h> and this also occurs in this video
Dec 02 15:20:45 <RST38h> and it does happen very fast
Dec 02 15:20:59 <ShadowJK> It can take several seconds on my E70
Dec 02 15:21:06 <ShadowJK> (switching between portrai and landscape)
Dec 02 15:21:10 <ShadowJK> portrait*
Dec 02 15:21:19 <RST38h> other transitions are less fluid though
Dec 02 15:21:34 <RST38h> ShadowJK: Hey, my E70 takes 40 seconds just to show contents of a folder in the app menu
Dec 02 15:21:42 <summatusmentis> is the N97 the big Nokia announcement?
Dec 02 15:21:58 <ShadowJK> RST38h, I recommend running chkdsk/fsck on the memory card :)
Dec 02 15:22:30 <Meiz_n810> My 5500 is soo slow...
Dec 02 15:22:45 <ShadowJK> welcome to symbian!
Dec 02 15:22:46 * ShadowJK runs
Dec 02 15:22:54 <aquatix> johnx: it misses transitions in that video
Dec 02 15:22:59 <aquatix> still looks quite ok to me
Dec 02 15:23:12 <RST38h> ShadowJK: You mean, Windows version of checkdisk?
Dec 02 15:23:16 <Jaffa> summatusmentis: yeah
Dec 02 15:23:38 <aquatix> johnx: maybe the transitions wheren't enabled in that movie (stupid...) or wheren't done yet
Dec 02 15:23:47 <aquatix> there's a reason we have to wait another 6 months ;)
Dec 02 15:23:47 <ShadowJK> RST38h, yeah it's better than the Linux fsck.msdos
Dec 02 15:23:52 <summatusmentis> what's it running? Symbian?
Dec 02 15:24:00 <ShadowJK> yes
Dec 02 15:24:17 <aquatix> summatusmentis: series 60 v5
Dec 02 15:24:23 <summatusmentis> hmm
Dec 02 15:24:38 <RST38h> ShadowJK: Thanks, I will try
Dec 02 15:24:48 <summatusmentis> thanks
Dec 02 15:25:17 <ShadowJK> RST38h, what I ended up doing was saving pictures/videos/audio and then formatting the card
Dec 02 15:25:39 <ShadowJK> lost the Maps cache and programs I had installed to the card, but it was much faster afterwards
Dec 02 15:25:52 <aquatix> :)
Dec 02 15:26:08 <ShadowJK> I had been reading/writing to the card with a card reader connected to PC. Unfortunately it turned out that the reader didn't quite cope with >1G cards, and was silently corrupting the card...
Dec 02 15:26:10 <RST38h> But what happened after you installed those programs again?
Dec 02 15:26:32 <aquatix> ShadowJK: ah, that sounds nasty indeed
Dec 02 15:27:27 <ShadowJK> RST38h, I had one minute delays in opening the gallery and such, those went away even after programs had been reinstalled
Dec 02 15:27:46 <RST38h> hmmm
Dec 02 15:46:27 <lardman> any canola users here?
Dec 02 15:46:36 <johnx> <- big canola user
Dec 02 15:46:39 <johnx> almost every day
Dec 02 15:46:50 <lardman> it doesn't seem to find my music, where should I search? Do they have a bugtracker?
Dec 02 15:46:54 <t_s_o> canola? *gag*
Dec 02 15:47:06 <lardman> it also takes a year to "update" from a single directory
Dec 02 15:47:17 <GAN800> lardman, did you add your folders?
Dec 02 15:47:22 <lardman> update the music list that is
Dec 02 15:47:27 <lardman> GAN800: yeah, just the one
Dec 02 15:48:04 <GAN800> The bug tracker is bugs.maemo.org Mr. Council-member-that-pays-attention. . . .
Dec 02 15:48:07 <lardman> hmm, apparently it didn't remember, no tick mark by it anymore
Dec 02 15:48:19 <GAN800> Or just harass etrunko in #canola
Dec 02 15:48:21 <lardman> GAN800: there's a bug tracker?!
Dec 02 15:48:25 <lardman> a maemo one?!
Dec 02 15:48:28 <lardman> ;)
Dec 02 15:48:32 <Meiz_n810> I installed latest canola from extras (not extras-devel) to a fresh flash and there is no video icon :(
Dec 02 15:48:52 * GAN800 slaps lardman with a stack of current events.
Dec 02 15:49:01 <MoRpHeUz> Meiz_n810: run "canola -vvv" and put the log here...
Dec 02 15:49:10 * lardman ducks his head further into the sand
Dec 02 15:49:46 <Meiz_n810> no problem anymore, i flashed and installed again
Dec 02 15:50:13 <lardman> still doesn't work!
Dec 02 15:50:17 <lardman> rubbish,
Dec 02 15:51:15 <johnx> not detecting any of your music?
Dec 02 15:51:21 <lardman> yep
Dec 02 15:51:33 <johnx> but it is taking time after you hit refresh?
Dec 02 15:51:34 <lardman> well I think the issue is more that it forgets where I've put it
Dec 02 15:51:45 <lardman> yeah, takes a couple of minutes after I select a directory
Dec 02 15:51:51 <lardman> saying "updating" or similar
Dec 02 15:52:04 <qwerty12> lardman, I think your issue is that you deleted the lethal bizzle son
Dec 02 15:52:07 <qwerty12> +g
Dec 02 15:52:13 <lardman> qwerty12: lol
Dec 02 15:52:25 <lardman> qwerty12: how do you know I didn't hang on to it....? ;)
Dec 02 15:52:41 <qwerty12> I just figure that the song is not to your taste ;P
Dec 02 15:53:08 <lardman> qwerty12: yeah, sounds worse since I fixed mono playback via a2dp ;)
Dec 02 15:53:23 <qwerty12> lardman, lol
Dec 02 15:53:43 <lardman> hmm, "updating media library..." really takes a long time, I wonder what it's doing...
Dec 02 15:53:57 <aquatix> laughing at you
Dec 02 15:54:16 <lardman> aquatix: well I'm laughing back as I fire up "apt-get remove" ;)
Dec 02 15:54:21 <aquatix> :)
Dec 02 15:54:27 <aquatix> that's the canola library?
Dec 02 15:54:28 <GAN800> lardman, canola -vvv ? :P
Dec 02 15:54:28 <qwerty12> lardman, don't forget the --purge!
Dec 02 15:54:44 <GAN800> I'm assuming you're not using b10?
Dec 02 15:54:45 <t_s_o> lardman: could it be a slow SD card?
Dec 02 15:55:00 <GAN800> Canola cleanup then reinstall may also be productive.
Dec 02 15:55:03 <aquatix> canola was quite slow here with indexing
Dec 02 15:55:27 <GAN800> Tracker should help
Dec 02 15:55:43 <t_s_o> who needs indexing anyways? just toss it all into a playlist and hit random ;)
Dec 02 15:56:09 <lardman> lots of errors in the output, and yet it fails silently in the gui
Dec 02 15:56:36 * qwerty12 worships mpd because it doesn't use the dsp :P
Dec 02 15:57:03 * aquatix uses mpd on his laptop
Dec 02 15:57:34 <aquatix> i didn't quite like it on my handheld
Dec 02 15:58:11 <lardman> hmm, some error about a table not existing
Dec 02 15:58:21 <aquatix> lardman: hm
Dec 02 15:58:30 <aquatix> maybe purge the data files and let it recreate its db
Dec 02 15:58:39 <lardman> how does one do that?
Dec 02 15:59:35 <lardman> cd / && rm -rf
Dec 02 15:59:42 <lardman> :)
Dec 02 16:00:13 <qwerty12> Where's your *?!?
Dec 02 16:00:31 <lardman> qwerty12: I wanted to avoid someone accidentally destroying their world
Dec 02 16:00:45 <qwerty12> hehe
Dec 02 16:01:10 <aquatix> oh noes
Dec 02 16:01:18 <aquatix> i had mounted my nfs shares there too
Dec 02 16:01:27 <qwerty12> cd C:\ , C: , rm -rf . Command not found
Dec 02 16:01:31 <aquatix> and my backup hdd and ...
Dec 02 16:01:37 <aquatix> *carrier lost*
Dec 02 16:02:17 * qwerty12 has never figured out why windows's command prompt requires you to type <drive letter>: to go to the root of a new drive instead of being able to cd there
Dec 02 16:02:34 <aquatix> backwardness
Dec 02 16:02:34 <RST38h> because there are multiple root
Dec 02 16:02:35 <lardman> well you can cd before you get there can't you
Dec 02 16:02:39 <lopz> hola
Dec 02 16:02:58 <aquatix> RST38h: well, something like "cd c:" should work imho
Dec 02 16:03:05 <RST38h> and when you do cd X:\ this moves cwd for THAT drive to its root
Dec 02 16:03:17 <RST38h> aquatix: nope
Dec 02 16:03:35 <Meiz_n810> Hastys universe packages.gz 3.2mb , Jauntys universe packages.gz 4.1mb...
Dec 02 16:03:36 <aquatix> RST38h: read `imho'
Dec 02 16:03:51 <aquatix> eh
Dec 02 16:04:13 <aquatix> RST38h: it has cwd's for each drive?
Dec 02 16:04:14 <aquatix> ah yes
Dec 02 16:04:17 <aquatix> hm
Dec 02 16:04:27 <aquatix> still weird syntax though
Dec 02 16:05:41 * lardman installs Kagu instead and sees all the Map app .ogg files being parsed... :(
Dec 02 16:06:38 <RST38h> aquatix: i.e. the problem you are reporting is syntactically correct
Dec 02 16:06:58 <RST38h> lardman: Maps uses .ogg? =)
Dec 02 16:07:06 <lardman> yep
Dec 02 16:07:09 <aquatix> RST38h: yeah :)
Dec 02 16:07:21 <RST38h> lardman: holy shit
Dec 02 16:07:27 <aquatix> thankfully diablo has an `ignore the map oggs in media player'
Dec 02 16:07:40 <qwerty12> yeah, if you use ogg-support, it installs a control panel applet that lets the built in media player ignore the map oggs
Dec 02 16:07:48 <lardman> 'and all other oggs too' ?
Dec 02 16:07:54 <lardman> ah, ok
Dec 02 16:07:56 <aquatix> lardman: no, only the map ones
Dec 02 16:08:06 <aquatix> ah yes, that option was from ogg-support itself indeed
Dec 02 16:08:10 * RST38h likes the "iignore all oggs option"
Dec 02 16:08:14 <qwerty12> lardman, would defeat the purpose of ogg-support :P
Dec 02 16:08:26 <lardman> aquatix: default tablet state ;)
Dec 02 16:08:36 <lardman> qwerty12: I know
Dec 02 16:09:26 <lardman> aaarrrgggghhhh!
Dec 02 16:09:31 <lardman> what is it with me and music apps
Dec 02 16:09:33 <lardman> ?
Dec 02 16:10:03 <qwerty12> A dsp hacker can't get music apps to work for him. :P
Dec 02 16:10:09 <lardman> kagu crashed with an error too, couldn't open ~/.kagu/album)cashe.tga
Dec 02 16:10:31 <lardman> qwerty12: I need to resort to the command line, I just thought a nice fluffy player would be nice, but i was wrong!
Dec 02 16:11:01 <qwerty12> mplayer /music/directory/* -loop 99999999999999
Dec 02 16:11:07 <aquatix> lardman: :)
Dec 02 16:11:30 <aquatix> cat /dev/random > /dev/dsp
Dec 02 16:11:36 <aquatix> white noise++
Dec 02 16:11:37 <aquatix> ;)
Dec 02 16:11:43 <qwerty12> What /dev/dsp :P
Dec 02 16:11:56 <RST38h> lardman: you are too smart and they feel it
Dec 02 16:12:03 <qwerty12> on the tablets it's something like /dev/dsptask/pcm3 iirc
Dec 02 16:12:13 <aquatix> ah
Dec 02 16:12:14 <Zakk_maemo> where are the menu .desktop kept?
Dec 02 16:12:24 <qwerty12> /usr/share/applications/hildon
Dec 02 16:12:24 <lardman> I think I'll give up and go back to using the built-in media player :(
Dec 02 16:12:35 <aquatix> lardman: i did that too
Dec 02 16:12:40 <aquatix> i even think it's quite ok
Dec 02 16:12:53 <aquatix> wfm so to say :)
Dec 02 16:12:56 <lardman> aquatix: yeah, not very pretty though
Dec 02 16:13:11 <aquatix> lardman: well, i don't see it when it's playing ;)
Dec 02 16:13:36 <aquatix> generally located somewhere in my dashboard or in a pocket of my jacket
Dec 02 16:13:55 <lardman> ah, finally, music :)
Dec 02 16:14:52 <lardman> oh well, I'll just remember to not try to fool myself and use user-ready apps :)
Dec 02 16:15:11 <aquatix> :)
Dec 02 16:16:24 * lardman apologises for ranting, it's been a long week
Dec 02 16:20:09 <aquatix> lardman: it's ok
Dec 02 16:20:18 <aquatix> that's where /ignore is for
Dec 02 16:20:20 * aquatix runs
Dec 02 16:20:38 <lardman> :p :D
Dec 02 16:20:42 * qwerty12 tries /ignore aquatix :P
Dec 02 16:21:25 <qwerty12> Seems to be working...
Dec 02 16:21:31 <aquatix> \o/
Dec 02 16:22:56 * aquatix pokes qwerty12 
Dec 02 16:23:43 * qwerty12 looks to the side, sees noone there, continues on with his business
Dec 02 16:28:01 * lardman curses phase unwrapping
Dec 02 16:35:02 <lardman> cu later chaps
Dec 02 16:35:10 <qwerty12> bye lardman
Dec 02 16:35:36 <z4chh> hi
Dec 02 16:35:45 <qwerty12> hi
Dec 02 16:45:01 <etrunko> gone
Dec 02 16:45:02 <etrunko> :S
Dec 02 17:22:44 <Proteous> here's a tip, if you are going to set up svn on a windows box and are going to use ssh to connect/authenticate just use cygwin and save yourself hours of frustration
Dec 02 17:23:36 <inz> Proteous, s/ just use cygwin/, don't/
Dec 02 17:23:56 <dougt_> Proteous: why don't that work?
Dec 02 17:27:26 <oli> hey, how to I forward wlan0 to usb0 ? :)
Dec 02 17:28:09 <oli> i am connected to a wifi network and i want to route the traffic to my pc over Usb
Dec 02 17:28:34 <oli> (using vnc isn't comfortable)
Dec 02 17:30:18 <Stskeeps> get bridge utils? :P
Dec 02 17:31:00 <johnx> well, you could setup a static route, a bridge or NAT
Dec 02 17:31:07 <johnx> it all depends on the situation
Dec 02 17:31:28 <disco_stu> Hi
Dec 02 17:31:35 <Stskeeps> johnx: looking into h-d now
Dec 02 17:31:47 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: some of those transparency scrshots are mean cool
Dec 02 17:32:03 <johnx> Stskeeps, ah, thanks
Dec 02 17:32:09 <johnx> about to put up omapfb
Dec 02 17:32:13 <Stskeeps> alright
Dec 02 17:32:21 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, :). It's fun messing around :D
Dec 02 17:33:29 <qwerty12> Nice part is that I didn't have to recompile xserver-xomap because compositing is set by default if not disabled explicitly via configure. And guess what, nokia never specified to disable it.
Dec 02 17:33:51 <disco_stu> hey i need help, i moved to Diablo and now i cant remove stock games and so.. because dependencies, anyone with a  trick ?
Dec 02 17:34:37 <Stskeeps> ok, i might be an ass right now, but why don't people just call SetBackground on org.maemo.hildon.background_manager on dbus to make a wallpaper changer?
Dec 02 17:34:58 <Proteous> I wants an n97 with maemo or android
Dec 02 17:35:05 <Proteous> nokia can keep s60
Dec 02 17:35:06 <johnx> Stskeeps, that works?
Dec 02 17:35:12 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, Does that work? I was running dbus-monitor and I never saw paths being passed...
Dec 02 17:35:13 <Stskeeps> johnx: it's in te .xml for the interface
Dec 02 17:35:23 <Stskeeps> i'll see if it is actually implemented
Dec 02 17:35:31 <oli> johnx: i've tried to use iptables (nat) but when i use the same rule when sharing net from pc to nokia - it doesn't work
Dec 02 17:37:45 <Stskeeps> johnx: looks implemented to me
Dec 02 17:37:49 <johnx> oli, it doesn't forward packets or the iptables command fails?
Dec 02 17:37:55 * Stskeeps gets out tablet
Dec 02 17:38:13 <johnx> well, that's especially odd given that Nokia said it couldn't be done, IIRC
Dec 02 17:38:14 <Stskeeps> since my pizza place has decided to first serve me in 1h30 m
Dec 02 17:38:15 <Stskeeps> bastards
Dec 02 17:38:31 <johnx> sadness :/
Dec 02 17:38:35 <johnx> mmm...pizza
Dec 02 17:38:50 <qwerty12> hehe, dominoes here delivered one here in 30 mins the other day :P
Dec 02 17:38:59 <oli> johnx: command fails, will paste result in a moment...
Dec 02 17:39:12 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: i've had 20 min ones too
Dec 02 17:39:47 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, does your pizza place do the thing that you get the pizza free if they are more than 30 mins late?
Dec 02 17:40:31 <Stskeeps> no sadly
Dec 02 17:40:46 <Stskeeps> it's never really happened except once
Dec 02 17:40:54 <Stskeeps> was a burger place instead and a huge order
Dec 02 17:41:02 <Stskeeps> and far away
Dec 02 17:41:27 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: odd idea. can't dsp be used for composite?
Dec 02 17:41:47 <Stskeeps> as far as i recall it's fairly easy stuff
Dec 02 17:42:09 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, No idea, I don't know anything about the composition itself nor about the DSP.
Dec 02 17:42:11 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 02 17:42:23 <Stskeeps> i had a tangent once with graphics systems .. :P
Dec 02 17:42:43 <qwerty12> :P
Dec 02 17:43:23 <lardman> what are we compositing?
Dec 02 17:44:19 <johnx> lardman, pizza as far as I can tell
Dec 02 17:44:42 <qwerty12> lardman, look at the last page here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=246293
Dec 02 17:45:51 <oli> johnx: iptables v1.3.6: can't initialize iptables table `nat': Table does not exist (do you need to insmod?)
Dec 02 17:46:32 <johnx> well, the answer is that you need to download some modules and then insmod them
Dec 02 17:47:00 <qwerty12> afaik, there's the iptables more modules in extras[-devel]
Dec 02 17:47:54 <oli> any links/details? I'm tablet newbie ;]
Dec 02 17:48:12 <johnx> ~extras
Dec 02 17:48:13 <infobot> well, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras
Dec 02 17:48:28 <johnx> there's a start :)
Dec 02 17:49:15 <johnx> and a general tip about searching for googling about the tablets: try including "maemo" in your search instead of a specific tablet
Dec 02 17:49:49 <oli> will read :)
Dec 02 17:50:18 <oli> btw, why can't I have 2 ssh connections to nokia?
Dec 02 17:50:34 <johnx> you can
Dec 02 17:50:35 <lardman> sorry, I had to composite my reading here and unpacking the shopping
Dec 02 17:51:05 * qwerty12 has nautilus (via gnome-vfs) connected to an sftp session on the tablet & an ssh session in a terminal to the tablet at the same time
Dec 02 17:51:07 <lardman> I see
Dec 02 17:51:25 <Jaffa> oli: you might have reach the max number of pttys
Dec 02 17:51:56 <oli> sorry, I can :)
Dec 02 17:52:10 <oli> but why does connecting second session takes so loong ;p
Dec 02 17:52:25 <johnx> <- empowering words, 50% off, today only
Dec 02 17:52:54 <johnx> maybe your router or maybe it's connected to the tablet going into wifi power saving mode
Dec 02 17:53:36 <oli> johnx: Internet <aDSL> router <wifi> n800 <usb> PC ;)
Dec 02 17:54:36 <johnx> usb networking can be a little flakey it seems
Dec 02 17:55:09 <oli> when I am not ssh-connected it connects immediately
Dec 02 17:55:18 <oli> anyway, this is not a point :)
Dec 02 17:57:12 <z4chh> are there grandcentral invites still?
Dec 02 18:00:26 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: k, isn't an api for that
Dec 02 18:00:42 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, to change background?
Dec 02 18:00:46 <Stskeeps> yeah
Dec 02 18:01:47 <Stskeeps> http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg13791.html
Dec 02 18:02:31 * lcuk throws a snowball @ qwerty
Dec 02 18:03:01 <qwerty12> lcuk, hey, hey, you got snow up north?!
Dec 02 18:03:12 <lcuk> yeah, lots of it
Dec 02 18:03:17 <qwerty12> aww :(
Dec 02 18:03:26 * qwerty12 orders train tickets
Dec 02 18:03:49 <qwerty12> We do have lots of rain down here though :)
Dec 02 18:03:49 * lardman would like some snow too!
Dec 02 18:03:53 <oli> johnx: extras enabled
Dec 02 18:03:57 <lardman> cold rain :(
Dec 02 18:04:45 * lardman likes having 3 monitors :)
Dec 02 18:05:01 * Stskeeps misses having three monitors
Dec 02 18:05:22 * qwerty12 breaks into where lardman is and takes a monitor as a souvenir :)
Dec 02 18:05:23 <oli> 20"LCD, 15"CRT , 17" CRT? :D
Dec 02 18:05:40 * Stskeeps had 3x17" crt
Dec 02 18:05:42 <lardman> 22", 20" and 19" all LCD
Dec 02 18:05:44 <Stskeeps> that was space well used.
Dec 02 18:05:51 <johnx> CRTs are pain
Dec 02 18:05:58 <johnx> well, all the ones I owned
Dec 02 18:06:28 <lardman> yeah, I chopped a CRT for the 22" lcd to save some desk space
Dec 02 18:06:59 * lardman wonders whether he could find wall brackets and go for a second tier.... :)
Dec 02 18:07:21 <derf> Giant projectors, man. Fill the whole wall.
Dec 02 18:07:35 <lardman> lol
Dec 02 18:08:36 <oli> i guess the iptables-ext can help me, am I right?
Dec 02 18:08:54 <derf> http://www.cs.unc.edu/Research/stc/
Dec 02 18:10:03 <lardman> looks interesting, just need the desk to be a screen too :)
Dec 02 18:10:23 <lardman> not that I can see anything of the top of my desk though
Dec 02 18:10:35 <derf> I was thinking in particular of http://www.cs.unc.edu/Research/stc/Projects/wav.html
Dec 02 18:11:00 * konttori_ will fix ogg support bugs in ukmp.... There .. ogg_support=False.
Dec 02 18:11:17 <konttori_> that was nice and easy.
Dec 02 18:11:39 * qwerty12 imagines konttori_ as a bugmaster. And I do not see konttori_ as a successful bugmaster.
Dec 02 18:11:43 <lardman> konttori_: I had issues with kagu earlier
Dec 02 18:11:54 * derf uninstalls ukmp.
Dec 02 18:11:57 <konttori_> ;)
Dec 02 18:11:58 <lcuk> 4inch 4inch 4inch 24inch
Dec 02 18:12:21 * lcuk has lag
Dec 02 18:12:23 <lardman> derf: ah, fs stuff :)
Dec 02 18:12:25 <konttori_> I so am going to add ogg support when the packages are nicely installable in the maemo extras and playbin support is reliable
Dec 02 18:12:53 <derf> What's unreliable about playbin?
Dec 02 18:13:03 <lcuk> hiya konttori_, how deep is the snow today? (we had 10cm - first all year)
Dec 02 18:13:12 <lardman> does anyone have history of my earlier rant, around 4.30pm utc? What was that file I was missing? ~/.kagu/ something?
Dec 02 18:13:28 <Stskeeps> johnx: i get binary on .launch as well
Dec 02 18:13:35 <Stskeeps> will investigate
Dec 02 18:13:44 <lcuk> ~/.kagu/album)cashe.tga
Dec 02 18:13:50 <qwerty12> <lardman> kagu crashed with an error too, couldn't open ~/.kagu/album)cashe.tga
Dec 02 18:13:56 <qwerty12> lcuk beat me :)
Dec 02 18:14:00 <lardman> hmm, I didn't even notice the typo earlier
Dec 02 18:14:04 <lardman> thanks
Dec 02 18:14:13 <lcuk> i didnt even see the convo before
Dec 02 18:14:14 <lardman> ~/.kagu/album_cache.tga I guess it was
Dec 02 18:14:30 <lcuk> irc should have a filter field at the top to allow quick reduction like that
Dec 02 18:14:41 <lardman> konttori_: kagu crashed on startup with an error about missing the above file
Dec 02 18:14:41 <johnx> Stskeeps, not to engage in too much schadenfreude in it failing for you, but it makes me feel better that I wasn't just doing something dumb
Dec 02 18:14:59 * lcuk mashes potatoes
Dec 02 18:15:00 <lcuk> bbl
Dec 02 18:15:13 <lardman> better than peeling them hey? ;)
Dec 02 18:15:25 <qwerty12> lardman, konttori_ doesn't make kagu... If disq is around, you wish to ask him
Dec 02 18:15:33 * johnx eats his potatoes with the peels on :)
Dec 02 18:15:34 <lardman> oh, I thought he did
Dec 02 18:15:41 <lardman> must have got my wires crossed, sorry
Dec 02 18:15:43 <johnx> s/peels/skin/
Dec 02 18:15:44 <johnx> dur
Dec 02 18:15:49 <konttori_> lcuk: no snow anymore. all gone for now.
Dec 02 18:16:42 <Stskeeps> johnx: hehe :>
Dec 02 18:16:49 <konttori_> and yeah, I'm not working on kagu.
Dec 02 18:17:21 <lardman> yeah sorry, it was developed from ukmp though wasn't it originally? I must have been thinking along those lines
Dec 02 18:17:30 <Stskeeps> wtf.
Dec 02 18:17:35 <lardman> or perhaps just going mad
Dec 02 18:17:56 <Stskeeps> johnx: http://rafb.net/p/Dqg1c313.html
Dec 02 18:18:02 <Stskeeps> well that -clearly- says it's -shared
Dec 02 18:18:56 <johnx> I was thinking it might be connected to that trick where libtool keeps the real binary in .libs and replaces it with a bash script to make testing easier
Dec 02 18:19:06 <johnx> but, yes, I was highly confused
Dec 02 18:19:52 <Stskeeps> i'm willing to bet it's an issue with the order of parameters or something equally scary
Dec 02 18:20:07 <disq> lardman: hmmm.
Dec 02 18:21:38 <johnx> ah, good thinking. didn't occur to me at all
Dec 02 18:26:56 <Stskeeps> johnx: compile might take a while since trac is still crapping out
Dec 02 18:27:01 <Stskeeps> it might actually succeed, too
Dec 02 18:27:02 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 18:33:04 <lardman> disq: any ideas?
Dec 02 18:33:08 <johnx> Stskeeps, alright, off to bed. I wish you luck with hildon-desktop
Dec 02 18:33:56 <lardman> disq: was a fresh install, it did the search and then I started kagu up and it fails on that cover cache file
Dec 02 18:35:56 <Stskeeps> johnx: hang on a sec if you're still und
Dec 02 18:35:57 <Stskeeps> around
Dec 02 18:36:07 <johnx> yeah
Dec 02 18:37:02 <Stskeeps> http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/wierd.txt
Dec 02 18:37:10 <Stskeeps> it simply doesn't pass shared in next
Dec 02 18:37:54 <Stskeeps> (ignroe the extra /'s on the side)
Dec 02 18:39:13 <johnx> hmm
Dec 02 18:39:42 <johnx> so wait, that top section is the contents of 'foobar'?
Dec 02 18:39:49 <Stskeeps> yeah
Dec 02 18:39:56 * Stskeeps tries with older automake
Dec 02 18:40:25 <Stskeeps> er
Dec 02 18:40:27 <Stskeeps> newer
Dec 02 18:41:01 <disq> lardman: i'll bbl and read the chatlog later, but have you tried rm -r ~/.kagu/ and then doing it all over again?
Dec 02 18:41:02 <Stskeeps> think that might solve it
Dec 02 18:41:31 <johnx> seriously? a new automake?
Dec 02 18:41:49 <Stskeeps> h-d uses automake 1.7
Dec 02 18:42:01 <Stskeeps> trying with 1.10
Dec 02 18:42:12 <johnx> this does work in scratchbox though
Dec 02 18:42:30 <Stskeeps> mm
Dec 02 18:42:36 <Stskeeps> well sb is sb..
Dec 02 18:42:40 <johnx> heh
Dec 02 18:42:50 <Stskeeps> will have our answer in a sec or two
Dec 02 18:43:29 <Stskeeps> nop, didn't help :P
Dec 02 18:43:34 <Stskeeps> *sigh* :P
Dec 02 18:43:51 <Stskeeps> well we have something to hunt now, libtool cting up
Dec 02 18:46:33 <Stskeeps> heh, "I don't see anything in Android which would make it better than Linux maemo," Lappalainen said.
Dec 02 18:46:40 <Stskeeps> neato  :P
Dec 02 18:47:19 <BULLE> Stskeeps: other then the fact that android is shipping in mobile phones now, maemo isnt, its only in the internet tablets so far
Dec 02 18:47:50 <Stskeeps> BULLE: for nokia it's probably trivial to add a driver for their cellphone chips..
Dec 02 18:48:03 <Stskeeps> a bit of wiring, AT commands, .. and you're there
Dec 02 18:49:45 <BULLE> Stskeeps: and add the missing apps, like phonebook, and so on, but yeah
Dec 02 18:50:52 <Stskeeps> "Contacts"
Dec 02 18:50:52 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 18:51:52 <johnx> yeah, it just eats -shared
Dec 02 18:53:06 <Stskeeps> johnx: fact: diablo sdk in sb uses libtool 1.5
Dec 02 18:53:08 <Stskeeps> we use 2.2
Dec 02 18:53:27 <woglinde> hi
Dec 02 18:53:37 <johnx> yeah, I was worrying about that earlier
Dec 02 18:54:52 <woglinde> Stskeeps debian unstable is still at libool 1.5 too
Dec 02 18:55:36 <Stskeeps> interesting
Dec 02 18:55:39 <woglinde> just for notice
Dec 02 18:55:52 <Stskeeps> johx.. trying to add -module now
Dec 02 18:55:53 <woglinde> in oe we are at 2.4 while 2.7a is out
Dec 02 18:57:09 <johnx> has a thought :)
Dec 02 18:57:41 <woglinde> and libtool 2.x breaks at more shitty autotools abuse
Dec 02 18:59:30 <johnx> meh...nm
Dec 02 19:03:09 * Stskeeps waits for pizza
Dec 02 19:03:37 <johnx> it drops -shared and -export-dynamic, but not -fPIC or -rdynamic
Dec 02 19:04:29 <woglinde> johny which package?
Dec 02 19:04:37 <johnx> hildon-desktop
Dec 02 19:05:10 <johnx> from Stskeeps earlier: http://rafb.net/p/Dqg1c313.html
Dec 02 19:05:36 <johnx> the top part being the contents of "foobar" and the bottom, what happens when you run it
Dec 02 19:07:09 <Stskeeps> libtool experts are welcome to help :P
Dec 02 19:08:06 <woglinde> hehe
Dec 02 19:08:07 <woglinde> mom
Dec 02 19:09:06 <woglinde> whats the exact problem?
Dec 02 19:09:25 <Stskeeps> hildon-desktop is built as a executable instead of a shared library.
Dec 02 19:09:30 <Stskeeps> to put it simply
Dec 02 19:09:48 <Stskeeps> even though libtool gets explicitly asked to build it shared
Dec 02 19:10:00 <johnx> long version: We want to build hildon-desktop with maemo-launcher support. That works by having hildon-desktop compiled as a shared object that maemo-invoker loads
Dec 02 19:11:17 <woglinde> Stskeeps hm are
Dec 02 19:11:26 <woglinde> show me the Makefile.am
Dec 02 19:13:34 <johnx> sec
Dec 02 19:14:06 <johnx> the top level one or the one for that directory?
Dec 02 19:15:55 <Stskeeps> pizza came \o/
Dec 02 19:16:24 <woglinde> okay
Dec 02 19:16:32 <Stskeeps> woglinde: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~carsten-munk/m-r/hildon-desktop/files
Dec 02 19:16:50 <Stskeeps> file in question is built in sc/
Dec 02 19:16:53 <Stskeeps> src/
Dec 02 19:17:13 <johnx> anyways, I'll leave this in both of your capable hands. I'm off to bed for real
Dec 02 19:17:18 <Stskeeps> nini
Dec 02 19:17:49 <lcuk> johnx, you say that all the time, i think you are actually a short shell script
Dec 02 19:18:21 <woglinde> now I am watching arte
Dec 02 19:18:55 <lcuk> hiya woglinde
Dec 02 19:19:04 <johnx> /bin/sh while true ; do echo off to bed && sleep 3h ; done
Dec 02 19:19:30 <zs> 3h? can't be
Dec 02 19:19:38 <lcuk> you forgot the branch which says "to sleep for real"
Dec 02 19:20:58 * johnx would add it but he's really asleep
Dec 02 19:21:03 <lcuk> :P
Dec 02 19:21:10 <lcuk> gnite john
Dec 02 19:23:10 <woglinde> Stskeeps ah its easy to fix
Dec 02 19:23:15 <Stskeeps> mm?
Dec 02 19:23:46 <woglinde> its the same as compiling one or more objects with different LD_FLAGS
Dec 02 19:24:26 <Stskeeps> so because they have different flags, it bombs out and refuses to add -shared or what? :P
Dec 02 19:24:32 <woglinde> no no
Dec 02 19:27:10 <woglinde> stskeep change hildon_desktop_SOURCES to hildon_desktop_la_SOURCES
Dec 02 19:28:34 <woglinde> then you can add to maemo-invoker_la_LIBADD hildon_desktop.la
Dec 02 19:28:45 <woglinde> this should work
Dec 02 19:31:04 <Stskeeps> checking..
Dec 02 19:31:38 <lcuk> Stskeeps, just let woglinde send you a patch :D
Dec 02 19:31:50 <woglinde> no
Dec 02 19:31:53 <lcuk> pmsl
Dec 02 19:31:56 <woglinde> thats to trivial
Dec 02 19:32:01 <lcuk> has that put you off helping woglinde
Dec 02 19:32:17 <lcuk> or do u laff everytime
Dec 02 19:32:18 <Stskeeps> woglinde: well, since there's no maemo-invoker in source.. :P
Dec 02 19:32:30 <Stskeeps> in the .am, that is
Dec 02 19:32:37 <woglinde> Stskeeps haha what is johnx then talking about?
Dec 02 19:33:14 <Stskeeps> woglinde: that the reason why this thing -ought- to be a shared object and not an executable, is for the purpose of maemo-invoker/launcher
Dec 02 19:33:54 <Stskeeps> our problem is really, - libtool links hildon-desktop as a executable, not a shared object
Dec 02 19:33:57 <Stskeeps> even if it gets asked to
Dec 02 19:34:15 <woglinde> Stskeeps yeah because now it is build als binary
Dec 02 19:34:19 <woglinde> as
Dec 02 19:34:30 <Stskeeps> which it shouldn't be..
Dec 02 19:34:33 <woglinde> with the _la_ it is build as .o
Dec 02 19:34:34 <Stskeeps> i mean, we give -shared along to it
Dec 02 19:34:35 <woglinde> in the end
Dec 02 19:34:50 <Stskeeps> ok, so based on src/Makefile.am, how'd you do it then?
Dec 02 19:35:10 <woglinde> where are you building maemo-inovker?
Dec 02 19:36:31 <Stskeeps> ok, maemo-launcher/invoker is a system that loads shared objects, so that's out of the picture right now. problem is : under libtool 1.5, hildon-desktop builds the file 'hildon-desktop' as it should, as a .so, under 2.2, it builds it as an executable
Dec 02 19:36:39 <Stskeeps> even though it has a -shared -fPIC and all that stuff
Dec 02 19:37:13 <Stskeeps> example: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/wierd.txt
Dec 02 19:37:16 <Stskeeps> it leaves out -shared
Dec 02 19:37:50 <Stskeeps> ignore the /'s that prefixes
Dec 02 19:38:21 <woglinde> hm again the _la_ builds a .so
Dec 02 19:38:23 <Stskeeps> libtool removes the -shared statement, causing it to build an executable
Dec 02 19:38:25 <Stskeeps> ok
Dec 02 19:41:02 <woglinde> stskeep are
Dec 02 19:41:37 <woglinde> and lib_LTLIBRARIES = hildon_desktop.la
Dec 02 19:41:40 <woglinde> sorry
Dec 02 19:41:45 <woglinde> forgot that
Dec 02 19:42:28 <Stskeeps> ok, looking at it
Dec 02 19:49:26 <Stskeeps> ~seen GAN800
Dec 02 19:49:28 <infobot> gan800 <n=ryan@2416422hfc34.tampabay.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3h 54m 2s ago, saying: 'Tracker should help'.
Dec 02 20:03:46 <Stskeeps> "libtool: link: libtool library `hildon-desktop.la' must begin with `lib'
Dec 02 20:03:47 <Stskeeps> "
Dec 02 20:03:50 <Stskeeps> oh for crying out loud
Dec 02 20:04:30 <lcuk> :(
Dec 02 20:05:49 <Stskeeps> this is going to get ugly
Dec 02 20:06:16 <lcuk> i dunno what you are even trying to do
Dec 02 20:06:30 <Stskeeps> i'm tryin gto make maemo launcher work with a newer libtool
Dec 02 20:06:39 <Stskeeps> and something tells me this isn't going to be the first time we do this
Dec 02 20:06:56 <lcuk> last time *
Dec 02 20:07:06 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, how do i get an mer sdk?
Dec 02 20:07:20 <lcuk> i gather these restrictions and limitations are new to the version
Dec 02 20:07:25 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: i386 fine?
Dec 02 20:07:34 <Stskeeps> i don't have an armel one just yet
Dec 02 20:07:37 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, sure
Dec 02 20:07:57 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#Mer_Developer_Tools
Dec 02 20:08:32 <Stskeeps> we test on i386 chroot first, cos if it doesn't work on i386, it probably doesn't on armel either
Dec 02 20:08:50 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, cool, i'll try and set one up in a vm tomorrow
Dec 02 20:08:53 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 02 20:09:07 <lcuk> sts, wipe all your pron and backup your current devenv
Dec 02 20:09:13 <lcuk> as a vmimage
Dec 02 20:09:13 <qwerty12_N800> lol
Dec 02 20:09:53 <qwerty12_N800> oh, it's not using sbox so i'll install one into my real ubuntu install
Dec 02 20:10:01 <Stskeeps> yeah, it's a chroot
Dec 02 20:10:25 <Stskeeps> armel we use qemu's in similar fashion
Dec 02 20:11:38 <Stskeeps> .. for now, would very much like sb2 to start working
Dec 02 20:12:52 <Stskeeps> repo url is subject to change this week sometime possibly
Dec 02 20:13:20 <qwerty12_N800> eww, i would set a vm then for sb2
Dec 02 20:13:25 <qwerty12_N800> *set up
Dec 02 20:13:28 <Stskeeps> hehe
Dec 02 20:13:47 * qwerty12_N800 finds sb2 not as n00b friendly :)
Dec 02 20:14:00 <Stskeeps> well if you can get our rootstrap going under sb1.. :P
Dec 02 20:14:10 <Stskeeps> sb2 is the way ahead though
Dec 02 20:14:37 <RST38h> moo all
Dec 02 20:15:04 <Stskeeps> moo
Dec 02 20:15:18 <qwerty12_N800> all I have to do with sb1 is put vdso=0 in menu.lst and some lines in sysctl.conf. I hear sb2 isn't playing nice with ubuntu atm
Dec 02 20:15:24 <qwerty12_N800> hey RST38h
Dec 02 20:28:04 <woglinde> stskeep hm
Dec 02 20:28:36 <Stskeeps> woglinde: may have gotten it now.. we'll see
Dec 02 20:28:48 <Stskeeps> sat down and read libtool manual
Dec 02 20:30:03 * qwerty12_N800 reads on how to add a string to an about screen without making the program segfault >.<
Dec 02 20:30:30 <woglinde> Stskeeps hm its not the automake doc too
Dec 02 20:30:50 <Stskeeps> it had a reference to some automake stuff
Dec 02 20:31:48 <woglinde> Stskeeps hm but where is the problem to name it lib
Dec 02 20:31:55 <Stskeeps> woglinde: i forgot -module
Dec 02 20:32:05 <woglinde> hm?
Dec 02 20:32:08 <woglinde> hm hm
Dec 02 20:32:18 <Stskeeps> (it is a .so, not a libX.so :P)
Dec 02 20:32:22 <Stskeeps> as in, a module to be loaded
Dec 02 20:32:28 <woglinde> okay
Dec 02 20:32:31 <woglinde> right
Dec 02 20:33:01 <woglinde> are yes
Dec 02 20:33:15 <woglinde> and there are the automake lines for this
Dec 02 20:34:15 <woglinde> mymodule_la_LDFLAGS = -module
Dec 02 20:35:34 <woglinde> are
Dec 02 20:35:35 <woglinde> ah
Dec 02 20:36:21 <woglinde> and maemo_invoker_LTLIBRARIES = hildo-desktop.la
Dec 02 20:36:42 <woglinde> case closed
Dec 02 20:36:44 <woglinde> I think
Dec 02 20:36:46 <woglinde> *g*
Dec 02 20:36:49 <Stskeeps> we'll see :P
Dec 02 20:39:04 <lcuk> qwerty12_N800, you oculd do it like you used to with windows :P use a hex editor "haxx0red by qwerty"
Dec 02 20:39:25 <lcuk> (or still do :P)
Dec 02 20:41:29 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, :P, since I stopped dabbling with phone patches, I haven't touched an hex editor since :( .  but I did have some good times remotely executing "small cock alert" (changed from small penis alert) :P
Dec 02 20:51:58 <Stskeeps> great.. http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/report/1  (spam bots)
Dec 02 20:52:18 <GeneralAntilles> You've arrived! :P
Dec 02 20:53:02 <Stskeeps> wb home GA, i guess
Dec 02 20:53:12 <GeneralAntilles> My computer's still waking up. . . .
Dec 02 20:53:20 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: to be nitpicky, maemo.org -is- a nokia domain :>
Dec 02 20:53:25 <Stskeeps> (according to whois)
Dec 02 20:53:36 <GeneralAntilles> You know what I mean. . . .
Dec 02 20:53:41 <Stskeeps> hehe, yeah :)
Dec 02 20:53:53 <GeneralAntilles> I'm quite certain they'd transfer it in a heart beat if it were requested.
Dec 02 20:53:58 <guardian> evening, i would love to learn clutter, i'm looking for maemo apps making stuning use of it, could you please recommend some ?
Dec 02 20:54:18 <Stskeeps> guardian: .. we're waiting for GL and clutter in the community :)
Dec 02 20:54:20 <GeneralAntilles> guardian, none yet.
Dec 02 20:54:37 <GeneralAntilles> guardian, MAYBE there'll be the first small starts with the Fremantle alpha SDK.
Dec 02 20:54:47 <guardian> none because there is no acceleration on N800/N810 ?
Dec 02 20:54:47 <GeneralAntilles> But for sure there'll be some with the beta SDK release in May.
Dec 02 20:54:53 <lardman> I'm shattered, night all, cu tomorrow
Dec 02 20:55:20 <guardian> GeneralAntilles: Fremantle is next sdk release, for N900 ?
Dec 02 20:55:43 <GeneralAntilles> guardian, Fremantle is Maemo 5, which will run on whatever tablet Nokia releases next.
Dec 02 20:55:49 <guardian> ok
Dec 02 20:55:55 <guardian> sorry for the cluelessness
Dec 02 20:55:59 <guardian> long time no maemo coding
Dec 02 20:56:19 <GeneralAntilles> guardian, you may want to look at Ubuntu Mobile if you want a head start.
Dec 02 20:56:39 <guardian> ah yeah, i still need to install that on a samsung Q1
Dec 02 20:56:53 <guardian> there is one lying around at work
Dec 02 20:57:03 <guardian> it has vista, no one uses it :)
Dec 02 20:58:22 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, are we porting maemo to n97
Dec 02 20:58:33 <Stskeeps> get a bootloader and i'm on it
Dec 02 20:58:33 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 20:58:44 <lcuk> :D heh
Dec 02 20:58:45 <Stskeeps> .. well, .. linux kernel booting
Dec 02 20:58:47 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, not anytime soon.
Dec 02 20:59:01 <GeneralAntilles> Practically nobody's hacked open Nokia's phones.
Dec 02 20:59:05 <lcuk> sts, i know you are joking, you would ask for a device to test
Dec 02 20:59:21 <lcuk> is that because of lack of desirables? or simply price?
Dec 02 20:59:47 <lcuk> the new one reminds me of n810 muchly
Dec 02 20:59:50 <Stskeeps> lcuk: if someone has a kernel booting and ability to flash, - i'm in :P
Dec 02 21:02:08 <qwerty12_N800> with  some early models (n80 etc) people were able to flash hexedited firmware (*cough* lcuk) as an early method of opening up more permissions for apps
Dec 02 21:02:39 <guardian> GeneralAntilles: is ubuntu mobile all gtk based like maemo ?
Dec 02 21:02:42 <woglinde> stskeep hm there is another phone you can port maemo to
Dec 02 21:02:52 <GeneralAntilles> guardian, yeah, and they're using Clutter right now.
Dec 02 21:03:04 <GeneralAntilles> guardian, they're actually fairly close to Maemo in a lot of ways.
Dec 02 21:03:31 <Stskeeps> woglinde: with 800x480? :P
Dec 02 21:04:13 <woglinde> E-TEN glofiish M800
Dec 02 21:04:16 <woglinde> hm okay
Dec 02 21:04:26 <lcuk> 800*480 is overrated :P
Dec 02 21:04:34 <lcuk> but purty
Dec 02 21:04:45 <Stskeeps> well, i dunno how hildon looks on 640x480
Dec 02 21:05:02 <lcuk> if its designed right it should look the same :P
Dec 02 21:05:17 <Stskeeps> probably better if the fotn sizes werent huge..
Dec 02 21:05:17 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 21:05:33 <woglinde> only 640x480
Dec 02 21:05:47 <lcuk> woglinde, 640 should be enough for anyone
Dec 02 21:05:51 <woglinde> http://www.glofiish.com/index3.htm?no=m800
Dec 02 21:06:06 <XTL> Hmm
Dec 02 21:06:27 <guardian> GeneralAntilles: is ubuntu mobile what's on intel classmate pcs ?
Dec 02 21:06:28 <XTL> Am I wasting my time trying to look up how to access the dsp chip on n810?
Dec 02 21:06:37 <XTL> And whether there are any compilers
Dec 02 21:06:46 <GeneralAntilles> guardian, dunno. They target MIDs and UMPCs, though.
Dec 02 21:06:56 <guardian> ok
Dec 02 21:07:01 <GeneralAntilles> guardian, Intel's got Moblin.
Dec 02 21:07:06 <Stskeeps> XTL: people have done DSP programming before
Dec 02 21:07:12 <lcuk> xtl, there is an open source dsp compiler toolchain available
Dec 02 21:07:19 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, 800x480 is not overrated.
Dec 02 21:07:28 <GeneralAntilles> You just do too much stuff that's less dependent on resolution.
Dec 02 21:07:37 <woglinde> 800x480 is better for nx
Dec 02 21:07:41 <woglinde> hm remindes
Dec 02 21:07:43 <woglinde> me
Dec 02 21:07:48 <woglinde> to put out the freerunner
Dec 02 21:08:03 <XTL> hmm
Dec 02 21:08:12 <Stskeeps> woglinde: .. looks interesting
Dec 02 21:08:14 <lcuk> xtl, i dont use it, but lardman does lots of dsp dev
Dec 02 21:08:37 <lcuk> if he were here he would tell you what was needed, but i also think hes setup a wiki page about it all
Dec 02 21:08:51 <woglinde> stskeeps based on lafOrges work we have first support in oe
Dec 02 21:08:57 <lcuk> http://wiki.maemo.org/Programming_the_DSP
Dec 02 21:09:24 <XTL> Argh.. funny that that didn't show up on searches :)
Dec 02 21:09:28 <Stskeeps> woglinde: i'll keep that device in mind for Mer, yeah
Dec 02 21:09:58 <woglinde> XTL wiki searches mostly dont find want you want
Dec 02 21:10:03 <woglinde> even it is there
Dec 02 21:10:12 <woglinde> its the same on the openmoko wiki
Dec 02 21:10:18 <Stskeeps> woglinde: how expensive is an m800?
Dec 02 21:11:22 <woglinde> hm
Dec 02 21:11:25 <woglinde> oh 474 euros
Dec 02 21:11:26 <XTL> The compiler sounds pretty gruesome. Mostly I'm interested on how to get the results on the chip, though.
Dec 02 21:11:33 <XTL> Thanks
Dec 02 21:11:47 <woglinde> oh
Dec 02 21:11:54 <woglinde> oearl.de has it at 250 euros
Dec 02 21:11:56 <woglinde> pearl
Dec 02 21:11:57 <woglinde> great
Dec 02 21:12:01 <Stskeeps> interesting
Dec 02 21:12:22 <lcuk> xtl, what do you mean results on the chip?
Dec 02 21:12:32 <lcuk> oyu have to build and run code to get results
Dec 02 21:12:38 <XTL> lcuk: I mean load the actual binary and run it on a real target
Dec 02 21:12:41 <woglinde> stskeep mormal price the vendor suggest 649
Dec 02 21:12:43 * lcuk sprinkles fairydust for xtl :D
Dec 02 21:12:46 <woglinde> http://www.pearl.de/a-PX4129-4090.shtml
Dec 02 21:12:53 <XTL> dsp chips/boards seem to be hard to come by and/or expensive
Dec 02 21:12:56 <Stskeeps> woglinde: ah, armv4t though
Dec 02 21:13:06 <lcuk> xtl, i have a dsp inside my n810
Dec 02 21:13:12 <XTL> (expect dspic)
Dec 02 21:13:17 <GeneralAntilles> XTL, Beagle's a good platform to play with if you're interested in getting read for the N900.
Dec 02 21:13:19 <lcuk> and the code built with the free compiler works on it
Dec 02 21:13:30 <lcuk> yes agreed gen :D
Dec 02 21:13:32 <XTL> But since I have the n810, that might be one way to mess with dsps
Dec 02 21:15:08 <lcuk> Stskeeps, woglinde that glofish looks nifty
Dec 02 21:15:10 <GAN800> XTL, lardman's usually about, and he knows a thing or two about the DSP, so pick his brain if you run into him.
Dec 02 21:15:16 <Stskeeps> lcuk: yeah, but also armv4 it seems
Dec 02 21:15:27 <lcuk> but the keyboard has a windows key for some reason
Dec 02 21:15:29 <XTL> GAN800: I'll keep that in mind
Dec 02 21:16:20 <woglinde> lcuk hehe you can paint it what you want
Dec 02 21:16:32 <woglinde> lcuk normaly it runs windows mobile
Dec 02 21:16:42 <lcuk> why would i paint over it - i want windows on my phone damnit \@/
Dec 02 21:17:05 <lcuk> not pathetic crap cutdown windows, i want the full windows fistula experience
Dec 02 21:17:30 <lcuk> "someone wants to call you, cancel or allow" type things
Dec 02 21:17:33 <woglinde> +lcuk you can switch it to linux
Dec 02 21:19:39 <lcuk> speaking of which i need to change my desktop
Dec 02 21:21:52 <XTL> Generic Host Process for winmo has encountered a problem and needs to close
Dec 02 21:23:40 <thopiekar> good evening ;D
Dec 02 21:23:56 <thopiekar> to all the germans here in the channel...
Dec 02 21:23:57 <thopiekar> guten abend alle zusammen... ich habe seit kurzem ein forum erstellt.. http://dcodercommunity.forumieren.com/... in dem es vorallem darum geht auf internettablets von nokia programme zu entwickeln..  außerdem soll hier das verständnis und interesse für neulinge geweckt werden ... dabei läuft auf diesen Geräten ein voller Linux Kernel + Debain.. außerdem soll hier das verständnis und interesse für neulinge geweckt werden  ...ich weiß
Dec 02 21:24:07 <thopiekar> schönen abend noch..
Dec 02 21:24:26 <Stskeeps> did we just get hit-and-run germaned+
Dec 02 21:24:29 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 21:25:00 <Benny1967> Stskeeps: warum fragst du? ;)
Dec 02 21:25:00 <GeneralAntilles> Bizarrre
Dec 02 21:25:41 <woglinde> hihi
Dec 02 21:25:42 <qwerty12_N800> So Debian is Debain in German...
Dec 02 21:25:43 <woglinde> genau
Dec 02 21:29:39 <Stskeeps> there's actually quite a bit of armv4t stuff on market
Dec 02 21:30:30 <GAN800> It still slow. :(
Dec 02 21:38:13 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: there's even people who are unhappy about dropping support for armv4 (without t..)
Dec 02 21:52:22 * Stskeeps wonders how much of hildon that breaks horridly under libtool2 when it comes to dealing with launcher
Dec 02 21:52:41 <woglinde> Stskeeps ;(
Dec 02 21:52:59 <Stskeeps> woglinde: i got it working now but it wasn't a pretty fix
Dec 02 21:53:21 <woglinde> hm why?
Dec 02 21:55:04 <Stskeeps> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~carsten-munk/m-r/hildon-desktop/revision/1100?start_revid=1106&remember=1106&compare_revid=1106
Dec 02 21:56:49 <woglinde> stskeeps hm looks good
Dec 02 21:57:58 <Stskeeps> i'd really prefer it to put it in bin first than put in some plugin folder..
Dec 02 22:00:52 <Stskeeps> hmm.
Dec 02 22:01:49 <Stskeeps> actually, it may be okay that we have it be a binary
Dec 02 22:02:09 <Stskeeps> it should just be -export-dynamic and -fPIC
Dec 02 22:02:26 <Stskeeps> according to the docs
Dec 02 22:10:59 <l7> instead of the n900?
Dec 02 22:11:36 <l7> oops, that was from before
Dec 02 22:12:35 <GAN800> I wonder what Nokia's expectation was with Modest.
Dec 02 22:12:59 <GAN800> 'Maybe if we half-ass an open source client the patches will just start pouring in'
Dec 02 22:13:32 <Stskeeps> or getting people to use claws..
Dec 02 22:13:33 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 22:14:20 <GAN800> Maybe that approach would've made sense if any of the Modest devs were actually visible.
Dec 02 22:15:05 <suihkulokki> the main developer atleast was very noisy
Dec 02 22:15:12 <hopefull> somebody any idea how to get wpa-suplicant working under os2008 ?
Dec 02 22:15:40 <woglinde> hopefull install the new wlan-driver
Dec 02 22:15:54 <woglinde> and hope its already enough for wpa_suplicant
Dec 02 22:16:04 <Stskeeps> hopefull: there's a small bunch of patches for cx3110x
Dec 02 22:16:12 <GAN800> suihkulokki, well, the Modest product on bugzilla basically went ignored
Dec 02 22:16:37 <GAN800> Maybe they were active somewhere, but it certainly wasn't here.
Dec 02 22:17:49 <hopefull> wogline where can i get it ?
Dec 02 22:17:56 <GAN800> What's more bothersome is that it gets shipped with Diablo and all the devs instantly move on to other projects like they actually shipped something resembling a 1.0 or something.
Dec 02 22:17:57 <Stskeeps> my god, what is with those ogg fanatics..
Dec 02 22:18:14 <GAN800> Stskeeps, impressive, aren't they?
Dec 02 22:18:35 <hopefull> woglinde where can i get it?
Dec 02 22:19:09 <derf> Some people have nothing useful to do with their time, I guess.
Dec 02 22:19:24 <Stskeeps> GAN800: i still think the case of xvid gaining such a place in piracy was interesting from format point of view
Dec 02 22:20:00 <Stskeeps> .. just thought of that they have a bit in common
Dec 02 22:20:34 <Stskeeps> more adoption, less complaining, really
Dec 02 22:20:41 <suihkulokki> I'd like to understand why rar is so popular with pirates
Dec 02 22:21:20 <GAN800> Hehe
Dec 02 22:21:20 <woglinde> hopefull http://stlc45xx.garage.maemo.org/
Dec 02 22:21:32 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: history, and the fact it has excellent spanning
Dec 02 22:22:25 <Stskeeps> and the fact everything can be verified in bite size chunks and fxped over and all that stuff easily
Dec 02 22:22:32 <Stskeeps> since connections aren't always so stable
Dec 02 22:23:42 <ShadowJK> rar enabled a user-driven manual bittorrent-like distribution :P
Dec 02 22:25:40 <hopefull> woglinde looks like a tricky work......
Dec 02 22:26:04 <ShadowJK> I don't think it's coincidental that after people started using special purpose parity archives, the rar people integrated parity volumes into rar :P
Dec 02 22:26:11 <Stskeeps> GAN800: did you get tired of Modest now too or? :P
Dec 02 22:26:20 <ShadowJK> What IS modest?
Dec 02 22:26:30 <Stskeeps> ShadowJK: diablo mail client
Dec 02 22:26:38 * ShadowJK hasn't dared try
Dec 02 22:26:43 <Stskeeps> it was called modest in chinook, before it got embedded
Dec 02 22:26:47 <ShadowJK> I need to figure out a way to export my mail first
Dec 02 22:27:18 <GAN800> Stskeeps, I'm in a foul mood sitting here with a splitting headache waiting for the pizza guy who's now 30 minutes late. . . . :p
Dec 02 22:27:18 <ShadowJK> (from ~ behind nat+firewalls onto some imap)
Dec 02 22:28:03 <Stskeeps> GAN800: mine took an hour longer than normally. i was pissed too :P
Dec 02 22:28:16 <Stskeeps> heh. http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=246393&postcount=31 - this is something that's hard to show on MIDs
Dec 02 22:29:08 <ShadowJK> what makes pretty graphs like that
Dec 02 22:29:51 <ShadowJK> oh maybe I should click view thread..
Dec 02 22:30:13 <GeneralAntilles> Finally
Dec 02 22:30:29 <Stskeeps> pizza? :P
Dec 02 22:30:34 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Dec 02 22:30:57 <hopefull> Stskeeps where can i get the battery tool
Dec 02 22:31:09 <Stskeeps> hopefull: .. it's an active thread on internettablettalk.com/forums
Dec 02 22:31:47 <Stskeeps> or Talk Maemo or whatever it's called now
Dec 02 22:31:48 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 22:32:12 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, not yet. :P
Dec 02 22:32:23 <GeneralAntilles> Probably "Talk" will be sufficient, though. ;)
Dec 02 22:32:32 <Stskeeps> talk maemo sounds cool
Dec 02 22:32:32 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 22:32:49 <GeneralAntilles> I hope that graph gets into adv-power.
Dec 02 22:32:52 <qwerty12_N800> Talk Maemo sounds like a chat show :P
Dec 02 22:33:01 <GeneralAntilles> Hosted by qwerty12_N800.
Dec 02 22:33:09 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: iTT drama would belong on oprah..
Dec 02 22:33:12 <qwerty12_N800> :P
Dec 02 22:33:28 <Stskeeps> or dr phil
Dec 02 22:33:28 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 22:54:49 <Stskeeps> http://lwn.net/Articles/104185/ <- heh
Dec 02 22:54:51 <GeneralAntilles> lol . . . "Linux maemo"
Dec 02 22:54:53 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINL251396920081202?rpc=44
Dec 02 22:55:48 <Stskeeps> yeah, read
Dec 02 22:55:53 <qwerty12_N800> Bastards! Where's the capital M?
Dec 02 22:56:11 <GeneralAntilles> I'm wondering what the hell "Linux maemo" is.
Dec 02 22:57:06 <Stskeeps> better than s60 maemo
Dec 02 22:57:06 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 02 22:57:13 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Dec 02 23:07:29 <StsN800> whoa, didn't know there was a organise applications button
Dec 02 23:08:09 <qwerty12_N800> how long have you had a tablet now? :p
Dec 02 23:08:25 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Dec 02 23:08:27 <GeneralAntilles> Really
Dec 02 23:08:37 <GeneralAntilles> StsN800, learn to explore control panels better. :P
Dec 02 23:09:08 <StsN800> im astonished i didn't find it before
Dec 02 23:09:43 * GeneralAntilles reduces StsN800's competence grade a few points. :P
Dec 02 23:16:41 <StsN800> mm
Dec 02 23:31:05 <GeneralAntilles> Awesome, Benson's gonna put up the new voting procedure.
Dec 03 00:03:06 <l7> StsN800: have you tried personal menu?
Dec 03 00:03:13 <l7> it gets even better
Dec 03 00:31:21 <ds3> does there exists an alternate media player that supports OGG's and do not try to create its own UI?
Dec 03 00:31:22 <texel> Hm. Random question: what is /etc/resolv.conf supposed to be linked to on Diablo tablets?
Dec 03 00:32:42 <texel> Oh. Wait.
Dec 03 00:32:53 <texel> So /etc/resolv.conf has to have a nameserver line containing 127.0.0.1?
Dec 03 00:33:19 <ds3> it is probally proxying DNS since glibc likes to cache the contents of /etc/resolv.conf
Dec 03 00:34:01 <texel> Nope.
Dec 03 00:34:03 <texel> it's dnsmasq.
Dec 03 00:34:08 <texel> Broken.
Dec 03 00:34:10 <texel> Gr.
Dec 03 00:34:27 <texel> Fixed it by setting the nameserver to 127.0.0.1 and now DNS resolution works fine.
Dec 03 00:34:52 <texel> And no, glibc does /not/ cache the contents of /etc/resolv.conf -- that's what nscd does. =op
Dec 03 00:35:33 <ds3> uh... maybe caching isn't the right word but getting a running program to reread /etc/resolv.conf is a bit difficult
Dec 03 00:36:04 <texel> That's because many programs cache the nameserver themselves.
Dec 03 00:36:11 <texel> Firefox is notorious for that.
Dec 03 00:36:19 <texel> There may be other gnome apps that do the same.
Dec 03 00:36:27 <texel> But glibc by default does not.
Dec 03 00:36:33 <ds3> glibc does
Dec 03 00:37:02 <ds3> anyways
Dec 03 00:53:16 <texel> ds3: how?
Dec 03 00:55:34 <texel> Ahh.
Dec 03 00:55:54 <texel> Debian/Ubuntu patched glibc to update the cache upon a stat change.
Dec 03 01:04:11 <ds3> texel: it has been a problem I had to deal with before
Dec 03 01:05:27 <texel> Mm. Apparently programs are supposed to call res_init() to recache the contents.
Dec 03 01:05:38 <texel> But most don't know that, or it has other issues.
Dec 03 01:06:07 <texel> The reason why I was confused is because of the change made in Ubuntu/Debian which make it /act/ like it's never cached.
Dec 03 01:06:57 <ds3> res_init is part of libresolv on some systems, IIRC
Dec 03 01:07:02 * texel nods
Dec 03 01:07:18 <ds3> DNS is a mess, easiest to route it through a daemon
Dec 03 01:07:41 <ds3> the other complication is making dns nonblocking @$%$@#$@#%
Dec 03 01:50:10 <timeless> is there a doc other than
Dec 03 01:53:55 * GeneralAntilles waits with baited breath.
Dec 03 02:00:55 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody want to put together a script to export the translations on the wiki to some .pos? :P
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 03 02:59:56 2008