**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 03 02:59:57 2008
Dec 03 03:01:29 <johnx> mornin'
Dec 03 03:06:53 <johnx> Stskeeps, if you're still awake, did you test that it can be loaded by maemo-launcher?
Dec 03 04:31:01 * GeneralAntilles wonders what to make of http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=246449&postcount=38
Dec 03 04:31:12 <glass_> make pie
Dec 03 04:31:17 <GeneralAntilles> Mmm
Dec 03 04:31:25 * GeneralAntilles could really go for some cherry.
Dec 03 04:44:58 <johnx> mmm...pumpkin pie
Dec 03 04:45:20 <johnx> probably a song reference
Dec 03 04:46:48 <GeneralAntilles> Urg, now I really want to drive out to the Village Inn and buy a pie. . . .
Dec 03 04:47:34 <glass_> GeneralAntilles: i don't think maemo forums are a good place to look for cherry..
Dec 03 04:54:41 <GeneralAntilles> Get yer mind out of the gutter. :P
Dec 03 05:01:48 <GeneralAntilles> Alright, the translations are finally done.
Dec 03 05:03:58 <glass_> GeneralAntilles: i'm having imsomnia, bad jokes are the only thing i'm good for
Dec 03 05:39:00 <Stskeeps> johnx: admittedly no but it ought to judging on m-l docs
Dec 03 05:41:28 * GeneralAntilles shivers.
Dec 03 05:43:22 * Myrtti decides not to wail loudly and goes to prepare some coffee and ice cream instead
Dec 03 05:45:38 * StsN800 tries to get his eyes focusing
Dec 03 05:59:28 <kulve> ds3: do you mean command line ogg capable player? Or a media engine daemon?
Dec 03 06:00:35 <Jaredu> does irssi work on the n810?
Dec 03 06:03:53 <`0660> of course
Dec 03 06:04:53 <`0660> i just haven't found a terminal that would support opening hyperlinks
Dec 03 06:05:07 <Jaredu> mmk
Dec 03 06:05:21 <`0660> hmm, with n810 they might actually work because it has ctrl key
Dec 03 06:05:39 <Jaredu> yep
Dec 03 06:05:52 <ds3> kulve: a player... mogg and media player has problems so i am looking for an alternative
Dec 03 06:05:55 <Jaredu> touch highlight ftw :P
Dec 03 06:06:00 <GeneralAntilles> `0660, have you tried tap'n'hold? . . .
Dec 03 06:06:15 <Myrtti> support opening hyperlinks...
Dec 03 06:06:19 <Myrtti> haven't found...
Dec 03 06:06:29 <Myrtti> oh dear god, I must be sleeping
Dec 03 06:07:24 <`0660> tap'n'hold used to work with advanced osso-xterm
Dec 03 06:07:34 <`0660> but it's not maintained anymore
Dec 03 06:08:03 <`Mace> think i'm going to get an e90 soon
Dec 03 06:08:22 <`Mace> i'll have to go see one and play with it but it looks pretty nice
Dec 03 06:10:30 <kulve> ds3: what do you mean by "do not try to create its own UI"?
Dec 03 06:12:52 <ds3> kulve: things like canola, ukmp, etc they do not behave anything like the normal apps... i.e. they insist on full screen, the +/- keys don't work, scrolling is different, etc
Dec 03 06:13:54 <kulve> kilikali is a bit more normal, but it's quite unpolished..
Dec 03 06:14:26 <ds3> yeah, I tried it... the buttons are too small
Dec 03 06:14:48 <ds3> if media player didn't drop all the OGG's from the playlist when it gets suspended, it would have been fine
Dec 03 06:15:55 <kulve> ds3: when did you try it? The UI got rewritten awhile ago and I put it to extras-devel this week..
Dec 03 06:16:19 <ds3> kulve: I just installed it sunday
Dec 03 06:16:52 <kulve> ok
Dec 03 06:18:59 <ds3> I spent sunday evening trying out different players and they are either too buggy or too wild in how they deviated from the stock UI
Dec 03 06:21:04 <ds3> most irritating seems to be Kagu not liking nonfull screen modes
Dec 03 06:35:48 <shizhan> hello all, who knows how to make the vlc media player for os2008?
Dec 03 06:52:30 <doc|home> shizhan: something I can help you with?
Dec 03 06:53:21 <shizhan> oh ,I'm not familiar with this tool,so sorry
Dec 03 06:57:15 <shizhan> baaba: ping
Dec 03 06:58:58 <shizhan> doc|home:sorry to disturb you
Dec 03 06:59:54 <shizhan> doc|home: Do you know how to cross-compile vlc media player for os 2008?
Dec 03 07:02:09 <shizhan> Who knows how to cross-compile vlc media player for os 2008? many thanks
Dec 03 07:17:19 <`Mace> hi
Dec 03 07:21:09 <doc|home> shizhan: no
Dec 03 07:21:51 <shizhan> doc|home: thanks all the same
Dec 03 07:22:05 <shizhan> `Mace: hi
Dec 03 07:23:48 <shizhan> `Mace: just now , I enter the virtual machine ,so don't see your message, you know it ?
Dec 03 07:23:57 <`Mace> huh?
Dec 03 07:24:31 <shizhan> `Mace: how to cross-compile vlc media player for os 2008 ?
Dec 03 07:24:47 <`Mace> er
Dec 03 07:24:58 <`Mace> don't know. never did it
Dec 03 07:25:31 <`Mace> anybody here use an e90 w/ att?
Dec 03 07:28:35 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, qole got background changing working with the command line in a fashion: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=246465&postcount=844 :D
Dec 03 07:46:33 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: yeah, i suspected it was just like that
Dec 03 07:46:51 <Stskeeps> but that probably isn't memory effective
Dec 03 07:47:11 <qwerty12> meh, xsetmgr is killed afterwards
Dec 03 07:47:39 <qwerty12> Though chrooting may add time which is why I compiled hsetroot anyway
Dec 03 07:56:52 * Stskeeps tries to wake up
Dec 03 07:57:32 * qwerty12 sets up a pizza shop outside Stskeeps's residence
Dec 03 07:57:38 <qwerty12> Now will you get up?
Dec 03 07:58:35 <Stskeeps> got a pizza in the fridge
Dec 03 07:58:35 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 07:58:45 <qwerty12> damn :D
Dec 03 07:59:56 <Macer> hey
Dec 03 08:00:03 <Macer> anybody here know much about wimax?
Dec 03 08:00:05 <Stskeeps> morn macer
Dec 03 08:00:08 * Macer has no clue how it works
Dec 03 08:00:09 <Macer> heh
Dec 03 08:00:30 <Macer> i wanted to cancel att and see if i could use skype with wimax on an n810
Dec 03 08:00:39 <Macer> but i don't know how i'd go about doing that
Dec 03 08:01:27 <Macer> hm.. wonder if it's possible. i don't see why not but i need more information on wimax in chicago
Dec 03 08:02:30 <Macer> The WiMax Edition is optimized to support Sprint's "Xohm" WiMAX service, which is launching in Chicago, Baltimore, and Washington DC this Spring, with more cities to follow later.
Dec 03 08:02:40 <Macer> well. guess i'll have to look at sprint then :)
Dec 03 08:05:28 <Myrtti> wimax, is it something edible... oh no, wait, more coffee.
Dec 03 08:05:37 <Macer> heh
Dec 03 08:05:41 <Macer> well... i guess sprint offers it
Dec 03 08:05:46 <Macer> i wanted to get a wimax n810
Dec 03 08:05:55 <Macer> use skype and cancel any voice plan :)
Dec 03 08:06:45 <johnx> that sounds like a recipe for annoyance :)
Dec 03 08:07:30 <Macer> heh
Dec 03 08:07:45 <Macer> not if wimax doesn't suck. and sprint is said to have great wimax coverage in Chicago
Dec 03 08:09:58 <johnx> handoffs aren't quite the same as GSM, and I'm not sure about latency
Dec 03 08:10:14 <Macer> it's ok. i don't mind the handoffs too much
Dec 03 08:10:32 <johnx> you don't mind randomly dropped calls?
Dec 03 08:10:37 <Macer> i'm usually stationary and i want it more for the data than the voice calls
Dec 03 08:10:41 <Macer> no
Dec 03 08:10:42 <Macer> ;)
Dec 03 08:10:49 <Macer> i don't talk on the phone more than 5 mins anyways
Dec 03 08:10:57 <Macer> unless it's my gf.. and then i can at least blame it on a drop
Dec 03 08:10:57 <Macer> haha
Dec 03 08:11:08 <Macer> "thank god!"
Dec 03 08:11:16 <Macer> i hate talking on the phone
Dec 03 08:15:58 <Macer> well.. i will call sprint tomorrow and let you know how that works out
Dec 03 08:15:58 <Macer> ;)
Dec 03 08:24:03 <StsN801> johnx, what was the initial issue that lead to the executable vs so?
Dec 03 08:24:58 <johnx> it wouldn't load with maemo-invoker, so I guessed (incorrectly it seems) that the fact that it was an executable was the problem
Dec 03 08:25:06 <johnx> sorry to send you on a wild goose chase :(
Dec 03 08:26:07 <StsN801> hehe, it's fine, i discovered how launcher works
Dec 03 08:27:01 <StsN801> is the maemo launcher daemon running? else use the .launch (if executable)
Dec 03 08:28:06 <johnx> yeah, it was, let me try this again and get the error message
Dec 03 08:38:38 <StsN801> hah. maemo launcher: child_died_painfully()
Dec 03 08:40:04 <johnx> ow :O
Dec 03 08:42:16 <StsN801> or kindergarten_release_child
Dec 03 09:01:59 <johnx> Here's what I'm seeing: http://pastebin.com/m5b5bd7f
Dec 03 09:02:35 <johnx> that's what lead me to look towards whether hildon-desktop.launch was a shared object or not ...
Dec 03 09:03:51 <johnx> that's after maemo-invoker /usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch is run in another terminal
Dec 03 09:05:09 <Stskeeps> lookėn'
Dec 03 09:06:15 <Stskeeps> that's kinda weird, yeah
Dec 03 09:10:00 <johnx> if I link with -pie instead of -shared it starts for a sec and segfaults ..
Dec 03 09:10:44 <Stskeeps> try get lp:~carsten-munk/m-r/hildon-desktop
Dec 03 09:10:49 <Stskeeps> it has it making it as an .so
Dec 03 09:11:52 <johnx> trying...
Dec 03 09:11:52 <Stskeeps> hm, there's difference in pie and pic
Dec 03 09:13:06 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Dec 03 09:15:56 <johnx> maemo-launcher told me to :P
Dec 03 09:17:36 <Stskeeps> yeah, i was surprised too
Dec 03 09:21:59 <johnx> seg fault
Dec 03 09:22:02 <Stskeeps> sucks..
Dec 03 09:22:14 <Stskeeps> i'll look into it, but atleast we have it more traced down now
Dec 03 09:22:24 <Stskeeps> okay.. sometimes it's really astonishing how many professors, postdocs, and stuff that come to my office uninvited
Dec 03 09:22:27 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 09:23:15 <Stskeeps> for weird reasons ranging from wanting to find a firewire cable to asking about names of projects that they have no idea about..
Dec 03 09:23:55 <Stskeeps> which is, also, the reason why i keep my door locked.
Dec 03 09:23:55 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 09:24:34 <johnx> ahaha
Dec 03 09:31:42 <RST38h> sts,john: moo
Dec 03 09:31:46 <Stskeeps> moo, RST38h
Dec 03 09:31:48 <johnx> yo RST38h
Dec 03 09:34:01 <RST38h> "I don't see anything in Android which would make it better than Linux maemo," Lappalainen said.
Dec 03 09:37:54 <johnx> A Nokia spokesperson doesn't see how their competitor's product is better? What a surprise...
Dec 03 09:39:48 <robtaylor> johnx: andriod is pretty horrible compared to maemo, imho
Dec 03 09:40:25 <johnx> they're pretty different systems
Dec 03 09:40:39 <robtaylor> at least maemo uses standard gnome/freedestop parts. android is no different to any of the other phones that are built on a heavily hacked-up linux kernel with a custom userspace
Dec 03 09:41:11 <johnx> well, except that the custom userspace is open
Dec 03 09:41:19 <robtaylor> just "open source", and i use the quotes justifiably...
Dec 03 09:41:46 <robtaylor> in the loosest possible sense, try submitting a patch and see what kind of speedy reponce you get..
Dec 03 09:41:50 <johnx> heh, it is funny they end up locking down the g1, but that doesn't force other people to do the same
Dec 03 09:42:40 <johnx> reponse at bugs.maemo.org hasn't always been terribly stellar either
Dec 03 09:44:31 <robtaylor> johnx: that's true, that's true
Dec 03 09:45:18 <robtaylor> johnx: but at least there's an upstream to push bugs to.. in android they're packagers and upstream.
Dec 03 09:46:42 <johnx> fair enough, I haven't tried to submit patches to either, but it also strikes me that more of android is actually open sourced compared to OS2008
Dec 03 09:46:57 <johnx> I am looking forward to the Fremantle alpha SDK though
Dec 03 09:47:27 <RST38h> johnx: Android *is* pretty raw and limited
Dec 03 09:48:00 <johnx> yeah, it's a mobile phone OS
Dec 03 09:48:04 <RST38h> And the funny part is that if Nokia really wants it, it can run Android inside its existing platform :)
Dec 03 09:48:29 <RST38h> johnx: Android is not an OS, it is a  framework + apps
Dec 03 09:48:32 <johnx> you mean maemo or symbian?
Dec 03 09:48:36 <RST38h> Yes
Dec 03 09:48:46 <RST38h> Maemo - for sure. Symbian - maybe, given compatibility layer
Dec 03 09:51:13 <johnx> eh, android is really the whole thing though. It's linux+davlik
Dec 03 09:51:24 <johnx> I guess it depends on how you define what an OS is
Dec 03 09:51:55 <RST38h> johnx: Dalvik is a freaking JVM. It shouldn't care what OS it is running on
Dec 03 09:52:13 <RST38h> If it does, this should and will be fixed (if the source is open)
Dec 03 09:52:38 <johnx> ok, I didn't said it did care
Dec 03 09:53:00 <RST38h> So, the "linux" component can most likely be replaced with relative ease
Dec 03 09:53:15 <johnx> ok
Dec 03 09:53:19 <johnx> same as maemo
Dec 03 09:53:22 <johnx> what's your point?
Dec 03 09:53:27 <RST38h> Not very important, except for inducing wows from penguin worshippers
Dec 03 09:53:56 <RST38h> johnx: Current Maemo is much more tied to Linux than Android. Have you noticed that we STILL do not have a Windows based SDK? ;)
Dec 03 09:54:24 <johnx> well, it's certainly tied to a Unix-based OS
Dec 03 09:54:26 <RST38h> And that the Linux based SDK basically creates a self contained linux environment? ;)
Dec 03 09:55:04 <RST38h> Exactly - because stuff like DBus, GConf, ESD, ALSA, X11 is part of the Maemo platform
Dec 03 09:55:06 <johnx> you could develop just fine in cygwin I'm sure, but you'd have to compile in an emulator
Dec 03 09:55:22 * RST38h compiles with i386-based cross compiler
Dec 03 09:55:40 <RST38h> But the main shit starts happening if you try using autoconf on which Maemo also relies now
Dec 03 09:55:48 <johnx> heh, autoconf
Dec 03 09:55:51 <RST38h> So, no, Maemo is not Android
Dec 03 09:55:59 <johnx> yeah, no kidding
Dec 03 09:56:05 <RST38h> Android's java frameworks are not tied to anything specific.
Dec 03 09:56:08 <johnx> but x11, dbus and gconf aren't linux
Dec 03 09:56:28 <RST38h> johnx: They are Unix, which I do not differentiate from Linux, really
Dec 03 09:56:57 <johnx> which is kind of funny, because there's only one currently supported OS on the desktop that *isn't* unix...
Dec 03 09:56:57 <RST38h> But try running this stuff on top of Windows or Symbian and while I watch you tearing your last hair out =)
Dec 03 09:57:37 <RST38h> No, there are three! WinXP, Vista, and Windows Server! =)
Dec 03 09:57:47 <johnx> :P
Dec 03 09:58:12 <johnx> is there a posix layer for symbian? :D
Dec 03 09:58:26 <robtaylor> RST38h: actually, their IPC depends on kernel support
Dec 03 09:58:41 <robtaylor> (and they have an ugly device driver to support it)
Dec 03 09:58:47 <RST38h> robtaylor: But can't it be faked?
Dec 03 09:58:59 <RST38h> johnx: Yes. Two!
Dec 03 09:59:23 <RST38h> johnx: There is early posix support (including stdio!) they added when porting JVM
Dec 03 09:59:43 <robtaylor> RST38h: hmm, possibly, depends on the underlying arch
Dec 03 09:59:45 <RST38h> johnx: And then there is more modern posix that lets you compile C software for Symbian
Dec 03 10:00:05 <robtaylor> RST38h: its for cross-process reference counting. very hard to get right in user space, hence the kernel hack
Dec 03 10:00:10 <RST38h> robtaylor: I mean, inter process communication isn't really rocket science...
Dec 03 10:00:47 <robtaylor> RST38h: reliable cross-process reference counting is a bit
Dec 03 10:01:12 <robtaylor> its one of the main reasons all the big iron guys moved away from CORBA to message buses
Dec 03 10:01:36 <robtaylor> (and one of the reasons we moved away from CORBA to message buses ;))
Dec 03 10:01:36 <RST38h> robtaylor: I am sure it is resolvable though :)
Dec 03 10:02:01 <RST38h> ~curse JAVA and CORBA
Dec 03 10:02:02 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, JAVA and CORBA !
Dec 03 10:02:08 <RST38h> hehe
Dec 03 10:02:09 <johnx> ironic
Dec 03 10:02:10 <robtaylor> RST38h: maybe, maybe. Android is really broken in this regard, imho
Dec 03 10:02:16 <robtaylor> rofl
Dec 03 10:02:48 <RST38h> oh, there is a bonus meaning to that curse
Dec 03 10:08:24 <RST38h> ...former CEO of Open Source Development Labs, has written an op-ed on BusinessWeek claiming that the traditional open source business model, which relies solely on support and service revenue streams, is failing to meet the expectations of investors.
Dec 03 10:09:11 * RST38h wonders what took 'em so long? Didn't want to say that in the open while investors were giving them money? =)
Dec 03 10:10:22 <johnx> hope no one tells RedHat
Dec 03 10:10:37 <robtaylor> RST38h: works ok for quite a few companies
Dec 03 10:13:47 <RST38h> johnx: Redhat has a different model
Dec 03 10:14:00 <RST38h> and we do not really know how well it works for them
Dec 03 10:14:10 <johnx> they're publicly traded
Dec 03 10:14:13 <johnx> we know how it works
Dec 03 10:14:21 <johnx> look at their revenue :P
Dec 03 10:14:37 <RST38h> true :)
Dec 03 10:14:53 <johnx> and yes, they have pretty much the same model: you pay for support. don't want support? Use fedora or centOS
Dec 03 10:15:03 <RST38h> But Redhat basically takes somebody else's OSS software, package it, and ship it
Dec 03 10:15:17 <RST38h> Their development costs must be pretty low
Dec 03 10:15:18 <johnx> they pay a lot of devs
Dec 03 10:15:28 <johnx> kernel devs, gnome devs, etc, etc
Dec 03 10:15:30 <RST38h> They do, but they are not developing the whole thing
Dec 03 10:15:55 <RST38h> The original "OSS business model" was "Develop your software, release it under GPL and make money on support"
Dec 03 10:16:11 <RST38h> And THAT model does not work.
Dec 03 10:17:06 <johnx> you mean oracle's model?
Dec 03 10:18:05 <RST38h> Oracle's DBMS is closed source and you pay per-CPU
Dec 03 10:18:37 <johnx> er, wait, sorry, I was thinking of postgres I think
Dec 03 10:23:01 <RST38h> Hehe, N97 is causing some major soul-searching on iTT :)
Dec 03 10:23:32 <RST38h> "It is a new tablet! But it is a phone! It runs S60! I will NEVER buy it! But it is a tablet!"
Dec 03 10:24:42 <johnx> eh. I think people who like developing for the tablets will stick with it
Dec 03 10:25:09 <johnx> if some of the users are happy on a $700 phone than good for them
Dec 03 10:26:43 <baaba> how exactly does the usb support work on the n810?
Dec 03 10:27:00 <baaba> it seems that during normal operation i'm unable to reach anything above usb1 speeds
Dec 03 10:27:42 <baaba> but when flashing the device it's sending data at 7.5 megabytes per second
Dec 03 10:28:12 <johnx> is this with the tablet as host or the tablet as a device attached to a computer?
Dec 03 10:28:22 <johnx> anyways, back in a bit
Dec 03 10:28:30 <baaba> device when flashing, host otherwise
Dec 03 10:28:39 <baaba> is that what causes it?
Dec 03 10:41:55 <kleist> hello maemoistas! to get access to my linux filesystem, the easiest way is to use samba?
Dec 03 10:44:57 <RST38h> access from where?
Dec 03 10:45:49 <kleist> from my N810
Dec 03 10:46:38 <kleist> it would see SMB "mounted" filesystems? like windows does?
Dec 03 10:47:24 <RST38h> yes but only if your smb share is public
Dec 03 10:47:51 <kleist> ok, thx
Dec 03 11:02:32 <lardman> morning
Dec 03 11:57:27 <johnx> augh! now hildon-desktop non-maemo-launcher version is segfaulting on startup O_o
Dec 03 11:58:33 <Stskeeps> file hildon-desktop.launch?
Dec 03 12:03:45 <johnx> nope, I rebuilt it with nolauncher
Dec 03 12:03:54 <johnx> (*&$%
Dec 03 12:04:21 <Stskeeps> well then we have a reason why it -also- fails in non-maemo-launcher :P
Dec 03 12:04:32 <Stskeeps> you use my branch or something else?
Dec 03 12:04:55 <Stskeeps> cos that one is hardwired to launcher
Dec 03 12:05:24 <johnx> this is the one I was working on, applying the debian packaging to your branch, removing dependencies on the osso-af-startup, etc
Dec 03 12:05:53 <johnx> however, hildon-desktop will also segfault if the right pngs aren't in the right place
Dec 03 12:06:53 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 03 12:17:19 <Stskeeps> johnx: avoid stripping package maybe
Dec 03 12:17:25 <Stskeeps> verify it's not a .so, btw :P
Dec 03 12:17:35 <Stskeeps> it will segfault else
Dec 03 12:17:46 <johnx> it's an executable
Dec 03 12:17:52 <johnx> it runs for a while, tries to draw a panel
Dec 03 12:18:41 <johnx> it's complaining about missing icons again...it's done something similar before and it turned out to be just icons, and I need to sort those out anyways (hopefully remembering where everything is supposed to go this time)
Dec 03 12:18:53 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 03 12:25:01 <johnx> wonder if it has to do with running in a chroot ...
Dec 03 12:28:33 <Stskeeps> dunno
Dec 03 12:28:41 <Stskeeps> missing dbus?
Dec 03 12:28:57 <johnx> or not connecting to it correctly...
Dec 03 12:29:07 * Stskeeps is writing a usb imager for mer-i386
Dec 03 12:29:20 <Stskeeps> plug in, boot up, installs mer image on hd/ide compact flash/etc
Dec 03 12:29:21 <johnx> why don't you just use ubuntu's?
Dec 03 12:29:21 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 12:29:30 <Stskeeps> hm?
Dec 03 12:30:16 <johnx> ah, I guess that's for installing the whole system on a usb-stick, not making a usb installer
Dec 03 12:30:28 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 03 12:31:08 <Stskeeps> sfdisk is actually more flexible than i realized
Dec 03 12:31:24 <johnx> oh, it's flexible alright
Dec 03 12:31:25 <Stskeeps> ,,L makes a linux partition fitting the entire thing
Dec 03 12:31:28 <johnx> it's just arcane
Dec 03 12:31:30 <Stskeeps> yeah
Dec 03 12:32:04 <johnx> I kind of resent partitioning being made that much of a PITA
Dec 03 12:32:50 <johnx> well, granted that ,,L isn't a pain once you know it...
Dec 03 12:33:04 <johnx> I guess it's just the vi of partitioning
Dec 03 12:33:51 <Stskeeps> yeah
Dec 03 12:37:43 <johnx> I can't picture how much partitioning someone would have to do before deciding that this kind of shorthand needed to exist...
Dec 03 12:53:35 <`Mace> i really want to see what sprint has in a way of wimax
Dec 03 12:53:39 <`Mace> so i can get a wimax n810
Dec 03 12:54:03 <`Mace> i've been with att for a while and they just seem to get more and more retarded with each passing month
Dec 03 13:02:19 <timeless> help?
Dec 03 13:02:24 <timeless> how do i undo karma?
Dec 03 13:03:39 <`Mace> be a better person?
Dec 03 13:03:55 <timeless> i mean in planet
Dec 03 13:04:12 <johnx> ah, accidentally voted something up or down?
Dec 03 13:04:36 <johnx> come here and ask someone to do the opposite, then it'll even out :D
Dec 03 13:05:35 <timeless> heh
Dec 03 13:06:02 <`Mace> i should call sprint and ask about their xohm wimax stuff
Dec 03 13:06:14 <`Mace> i don't want voice.. just data
Dec 03 13:06:32 <`Mace> but knowing typical multi billion dollar conglomerates
Dec 03 13:06:43 <`Mace> they probably force you into a voice contract just to get wimax
Dec 03 13:06:52 <johnx> it's not sprint anymore
Dec 03 13:06:54 <johnx> it's clearwire
Dec 03 13:07:12 <johnx> and no, they offer no voice plans that relate to wimax
Dec 03 13:07:19 <`Mace> really?
Dec 03 13:07:32 <johnx> really truly
Dec 03 13:09:14 <`Mace> Thank you for your interest in Clearwire. We currently do not offer service in the location you entered. Please enter your contact information below and we will contact you as soon as we have coverage in your area.
Dec 03 13:09:22 <`Mace> wtf
Dec 03 13:09:46 <johnx> hmm? but you think that sprint used to cover that area with xohm?
Dec 03 13:09:55 <RST38h> That was a pleasant, diplomatic way of saying "fuck off"
Dec 03 13:09:58 <`Mace> yes
Dec 03 13:10:02 <`Mace> it's chicago ;)
Dec 03 13:10:04 <`Mace> it rolled out here
Dec 03 13:10:20 <`Mace> well.. baltimore.. but chicago is in the sights
Dec 03 13:10:26 <`Mace> http://www.xohm.com/
Dec 03 13:10:54 <johnx> so there was never live service in chicago, right?
Dec 03 13:11:03 <`Mace> Sorry, XOHM isn't available here.
Dec 03 13:11:08 <`Mace> guess that's a no
Dec 03 13:11:09 <`Mace> sucks
Dec 03 13:11:17 <johnx> why did you think it was already out?
Dec 03 13:11:53 <`Mace> http://www.xohm.com/apps/coverage-tracker/
Dec 03 13:12:02 <`Mace> because i read an article on it
Dec 03 13:12:13 <`Mace> looks like chicago and dallas/ft worth are getting it next
Dec 03 13:12:16 <johnx> yeah, they ended up massively behind schedule
Dec 03 13:12:46 <`Mace> that sucks
Dec 03 13:12:50 <`Mace> i want a wimax n810
Dec 03 13:13:07 <`Mace> i guess i'll just wait a while until it comes here and the n810s come down in price
Dec 03 13:13:27 <`Mace> well that's fucking lame
Dec 03 13:13:53 <johnx> Stskeeps, ha! looks like a dbus in chroot thing.
Dec 03 13:13:56 <johnx> gah
Dec 03 13:13:59 <timeless> ping?
Dec 03 13:14:01 <timeless> http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/
Dec 03 13:14:06 <timeless> could someone load that page w/o js enabled
Dec 03 13:14:19 <timeless> and copy the thumb down link for '
Dec 03 13:14:19 <timeless> N97 - No, it won't replace the Internet Tablet
Dec 03 13:14:20 <timeless> '
Dec 03 13:15:22 <johnx> top article?
Dec 03 13:15:26 <`Mace> wimax n810 would replace everything if there was wimax everywhere like there was supposed to be :)
Dec 03 13:16:03 <johnx> so wait, no js in the s60 browser? that kinda sucks
Dec 03 13:17:49 * johnx often confuses himself
Dec 03 13:17:55 <RST38h> there is js
Dec 03 13:18:05 <RST38h> just slow and unstablr
Dec 03 13:20:16 <bergie> interesting: http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/12/03/nokia-going-linux-bu.html
Dec 03 13:20:22 <timeless> bergie: ping
Dec 03 13:20:31 <bergie> pong
Dec 03 13:20:49 <johnx> probably not good to read too much into statements like that :)
Dec 03 13:21:36 <timeless> can you look through the website bugs i'm filing now?
Dec 03 13:22:22 <bergie> timeless: not right now, but during the evening, yes
Dec 03 13:22:40 <bergie> unless there is something extremely urgent, of course
Dec 03 13:22:54 <bergie> in the evening's meeting we need to decide what we want done during Dec
Dec 03 13:24:30 <timeless> i'd like to unbury some articles
Dec 03 13:25:19 <bergie> timeless: there is UI for "unfavoriting" in http://maemo.org/news/favorites/ but not for unburying IIRC
Dec 03 13:26:37 <bergie> timeless: so an UI favor unburying should be easy to make
Dec 03 13:26:44 <bergie> please file a ticket
Dec 03 13:27:34 <timeless> ok, i filed a bug saying the read crumb was wrong
Dec 03 13:27:44 <timeless> you can fix the bug some other way :)
Dec 03 13:30:01 <bergie> timeless: well, those tickets are a different thing...
Dec 03 13:30:13 <bergie> file another for enabling unburying :-)
Dec 03 13:31:36 <timeless> alright.
Dec 03 13:32:46 <bergie> thx
Dec 03 13:47:56 * Stskeeps tries to understand what moblin actually is.
Dec 03 13:49:29 * GAN800 freezes to death
Dec 03 13:49:55 <GAN800> A mobile Linux distro based on Red Hat?
Dec 03 13:50:19 <woglinde> lol
Dec 03 13:51:27 <Stskeeps> GAN800: or a maemo clone :P
Dec 03 13:51:44 <Stskeeps> (no, i don't intend to use moblin)
Dec 03 13:51:58 <johnx> not a clone so much as an old version of maemo running on brick-like intel hardware...
Dec 03 13:52:06 <Stskeeps> .. true
Dec 03 14:15:50 <Stskeeps> scary, just realized i've worked with the guy who wrote agetty linux port :P
Dec 03 14:16:07 <woglinde> haha
Dec 03 14:16:34 <Stskeeps> surprises comes in man pages occasionally
Dec 03 14:23:46 <Stskeeps> johnx: seems like box.net went commercial 100%
Dec 03 14:23:59 <johnx> no more free account?
Dec 03 14:24:17 <Stskeeps> or maybe.. hmm
Dec 03 14:24:24 <johnx> still free
Dec 03 14:24:48 <johnx> you did remind me I should play with it again though :)
Dec 03 14:24:49 <Stskeeps> okay, i must have looked at some other site then
Dec 03 14:24:59 <johnx> boxfs was fun, but rather slow and sketchy
Dec 03 14:25:02 <Stskeeps> johnx: we should definately make something with boxfs in mer :P
Dec 03 14:25:10 <Stskeeps> could introduce an interesting twist
Dec 03 14:26:14 <Stskeeps> more of a cloud OS
Dec 03 14:26:47 <johnx> there's lots of fun stuff to do with fuse :)
Dec 03 14:26:52 <johnx> I just never get around to it
Dec 03 14:27:06 <johnx> for a while I kept my ~/documents in version control :)
Dec 03 14:27:24 <Stskeeps> hehe
Dec 03 14:27:37 <johnx> but I never write anything at home in a word processor, so that folder is mostly static these days anyways
Dec 03 14:28:11 * Stskeeps would really love something like dropbox, put mp3s in a folder, sync to n800
Dec 03 14:28:23 <Stskeeps> without having to ssh in and scp it over
Dec 03 14:28:23 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 14:28:33 <johnx> well, start with sshfs :P
Dec 03 14:28:59 <johnx> err...your desktop is windows isn't it?
Dec 03 14:29:01 <Stskeeps> yeah
Dec 03 14:29:01 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 14:29:28 <johnx> <sales pitch>it's really great in nautilus, just drag and drop to transfer by sftp
Dec 03 14:29:37 <Stskeeps> hehe
Dec 03 14:31:04 <johnx> I tend to do it as I'm walking out the door and the transfer finishes by the time I'm out of wifi range :D
Dec 03 14:31:16 <Stskeeps> yeah,s ame
Dec 03 14:31:49 <Stskeeps> i really need to do my sync-the-songs-i'm listening to-based-on-last.fm thing sometime..
Dec 03 14:33:05 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, sftp? :P
Dec 03 14:33:32 <johnx> there's a nice GUI sftp client for windows I thought
Dec 03 14:33:44 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: something that automatically syncs my tablet and stuff is better than sftping in and out :P
Dec 03 14:33:59 <GeneralAntilles> There's an icon on my desktop I can just drop stuff on.
Dec 03 14:34:38 <Stskeeps> there should really be wiki pages "integrating your tablet into your computing environment"
Dec 03 14:35:03 <Stskeeps> sftp, rsyncing, usb networking, x11vnc, .. rdesktop, etc
Dec 03 14:35:03 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 14:35:11 <GeneralAntilles> There's a "getting media on your tablet"
Dec 03 14:35:30 <GeneralAntilles> There's a VNC/RDesktop page, too, but it really sucks.
Dec 03 14:35:45 <Stskeeps> i wouldn't mind a suite you could install on your pc really :P
Dec 03 14:36:09 <Stskeeps> "Your N810 is in range, would you like to sync" (avahi) .. and so on
Dec 03 14:36:32 <johnx> uhm, the jaiku build commands are really neat, but it won't let me type the same thing twice...how do I rebuild? O_o
Dec 03 14:36:41 <Stskeeps> johnx: delete the old one
Dec 03 14:36:48 <johnx> fair enough
Dec 03 14:36:57 <Stskeeps> jaiku builders are awesomely slow atm
Dec 03 14:37:16 <Stskeeps> i'll move repo sometime today probably, and try to make it into a http redirect instead
Dec 03 14:37:49 <Stskeeps> .. if apt even supports that
Dec 03 14:38:04 <johnx> hmm
Dec 03 14:38:08 <Stskeeps> nop, seems not
Dec 03 14:38:13 <johnx> I remember it choking on 302s
Dec 03 14:38:14 <johnx> yeah
Dec 03 14:38:27 <Stskeeps> it'll be packages.mer.tspre.org probably
Dec 03 14:38:44 <Stskeeps> (or repository.. im not sure which one i added
Dec 03 14:38:52 <RST38h> Sts: rsync
Dec 03 14:39:02 <RST38h> Sts: + some scripts I guess
Dec 03 14:39:10 <Stskeeps> yeah.. and a decent cron / alarmd interface
Dec 03 14:39:14 <Stskeeps> we had this discussion i guess :)
Dec 03 14:39:42 * Stskeeps is so looking forward to get home from work
Dec 03 14:39:57 <johnx> the thing is, I don't know what I want synced until I actually am ready to sync it...
Dec 03 14:40:20 <Stskeeps> avahi + sftp might be nice, appear as an icon
Dec 03 14:40:23 <Stskeeps> and just drag-and-drop
Dec 03 14:40:51 <johnx> I guess avahi would be nice
Dec 03 14:41:56 <johnx> I just keep static DHCP and assign hostnames automatically
Dec 03 14:42:20 <johnx> I don't get new devices often enough that it's a real problem :)
Dec 03 14:42:54 <RST38h> Hmm...home from work...that will be at least 1:40, probably more.
Dec 03 14:43:20 <RST38h> johnx: Get 'em more often, don't supress your urge =)
Dec 03 14:43:43 <johnx> RST38h, the problem is I seem to have developed an addiction to eating daily...
Dec 03 14:44:15 <RST38h> johnx: A deadly addiction indeed
Dec 03 14:44:28 <johnx> yes, I've heard it's terminal in all cases
Dec 03 14:44:47 <johnx> though I'd like to avoid that indefinitely :)
Dec 03 14:45:21 <Stskeeps> johnx: so it looks like tslib and omapfb built fine :)
Dec 03 14:45:34 <Stskeeps> .. or not
Dec 03 14:45:41 <Stskeeps> what was the issue with tslib?
Dec 03 14:45:48 <johnx> hmm?
Dec 03 14:46:13 <johnx> forgot to apply the button-release patch from the debian bug report
Dec 03 14:46:15 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 03 14:46:33 <johnx> remembered as soon as I tested on zaurus :/
Dec 03 14:50:20 <Stskeeps> hmm.. "HildonStackableWindow"
Dec 03 14:50:34 <johnx> something new?
Dec 03 14:50:57 <Stskeeps> cp using it now
Dec 03 14:53:49 <Stskeeps> right, i'm off home
Dec 03 14:56:20 * GeneralAntilles wonders if X-Fade's still dead.
Dec 03 15:01:55 <bergie> GeneralAntilles: he is not on Jabber, which is quite a sign
Dec 03 15:02:22 <GeneralAntilles> bergie, any chance you could tell me if integration@maemo.org points anywhere?
Dec 03 15:02:35 <bergie> no idea about the mail setup, sorry
Dec 03 15:09:42 <lardman> johnx: going back a bit, Nautilus is pretty unstable for me when doing sftp (backend not supported errors all the time)
Dec 03 15:10:01 <johnx> lardman, what release are you on?
Dec 03 15:10:20 <johnx> it's been rock solid here in gnome from ubuntu 8.04 and 8.10
Dec 03 15:10:26 <lardman> no idea, whatever comes with ubuntu upgrades
Dec 03 15:10:43 <johnx> well, it depends on what version of ubuntu you're on :P
Dec 03 15:10:54 <lardman> 8.04 I guess, not the very latest
Dec 03 15:11:57 <johnx> ~lart hildon-desktop for not giving any clear indication of why it dies
Dec 03 15:11:57 * infobot accelerates a free AOL cd to 50,000 rpm and lets hildon-desktop feel it for not giving any clear indication of why it dies
Dec 03 15:12:59 <lardman> infobot: not sure they can take that sort of speed
Dec 03 15:13:08 <lardman>     for i=1:max(group) % I'm assuming that no weird numbering stuff has gone on in here....
Dec 03 15:13:08 <lardman>         group_centroid_row(i) = mean(row(find(group==i)));
Dec 03 15:13:08 <lardman>         group_centroid_col(i) = mean(col(find(group==i)));
Dec 03 15:13:08 <lardman>     end
Dec 03 15:13:08 <lardman> http://www.powerlabs.org/cdexplode.htm
Dec 03 15:13:09 <aquatix> i think you will have fragmented that disk long before it reaches 50000 rpm
Dec 03 15:13:12 <lardman> oops
Dec 03 15:13:19 <lardman> the wonders of WinXP copy & paste :)
Dec 03 15:13:39 <RST38h> larrdmann
Dec 03 15:13:45 <johnx> ah, the fun of spinning CDs on dremels :D
Dec 03 15:14:14 <lopz> hola
Dec 03 15:14:27 <RST38h> ahh, centroids...tasty they are!
Dec 03 15:14:40 <lardman> :)
Dec 03 15:19:27 <lardman> RST38h: but pictures are better (not sure what's happened to this one mind you): http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/untitled.jpg
Dec 03 15:20:07 <RST38h> lardman: how colorful! how mean! =)
Dec 03 15:21:17 <lardman> always best to work with pretty colours, keeps one happy while coding :)
Dec 03 15:23:14 <RST38h> yea, even if it is only syntax highlighting...
Dec 03 15:31:21 <GeneralAntilles> The N97 threads are getting a little silly.
Dec 03 15:31:31 <GeneralAntilles> Cellular pundits and S60 fans always crack me up.
Dec 03 15:35:04 <johnx> WTH is conkeror?
Dec 03 15:35:36 <qwerty12> Something that was named by somebody who felt the need to copy KDE
Dec 03 15:35:54 <johnx> I guess so ... O_o
Dec 03 15:36:13 <johnx> some mozilla based browser that ended up installed without me telling it to be
Dec 03 15:37:59 <GeneralAntilles> The talk about Linux as an alternative on Nokia's high-end phones is kinda interesting.
Dec 03 15:38:27 <GeneralAntilles> Being able to swap between Symbian and Maemo(?) might actually make me care about phones.
Dec 03 15:38:47 * qwerty12 misses having an S60 phone
Dec 03 15:38:58 <johnx> getting my phone into a reboot loop and losing my contacts would make me smash that phone against a wall
Dec 03 15:39:07 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Dec 03 15:39:16 <RST38h> General: Don't tell me you are willingly participating in the N97 brouhaha
Dec 03 15:39:20 <GeneralAntilles> Well, we're talking Harmattan+ here. ;)
Dec 03 15:39:35 <jaska> harmageddon
Dec 03 15:39:41 <johnx> considering that Nokia invented the Linux reboot loop...
Dec 03 15:39:46 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, no, I'm willing paying attention to real comments by a real Nokia spokesperson about long-term possibilities. ;)
Dec 03 15:39:57 <RST38h> johnx: Smashing your phone against the wall significantly increases your risk of never recovering your contacts
Dec 03 15:40:19 <johnx> RST38h, but the contacts were trapped inside, I just had to get them out
Dec 03 15:40:22 <RST38h> General; Ah, the comment on the long term goal of using Linux in smartphones
Dec 03 15:40:59 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, anyway, current stability isn't necessarily an indicator of stability 2 years down the road. :P
Dec 03 15:41:05 <RST38h> johnx: Try screwdriver and pincers then! =)
Dec 03 15:41:25 <GeneralAntilles> I haven't had a reboot loop in a while
Dec 03 15:41:34 <RST38h> Anyways, people, what are you talking about? Maemo is ways more stable than Symbian
Dec 03 15:41:36 <GeneralAntilles> anybody using their tablet normally shouldn't run into them.
Dec 03 15:41:56 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, I'm not convinced that an essentially "desktop" environment will make a reasonable "phone" environment
Dec 03 15:42:01 <RST38h> Unless you hack it or happen to have tablet hw Nokia prematurely rashed to the market
Dec 03 15:42:08 <GeneralAntilles> My only real "Symbian" experience is with a 6682, then briefly with an N80 and an N93i.
Dec 03 15:42:13 <lardman> RST38h: "Symbian" aka EPOC used to be very stable
Dec 03 15:42:27 <RST38h> lardman: It is deadlock hell right now
Dec 03 15:42:39 <lardman> RST38h: shame Psion sold it on really
Dec 03 15:42:40 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, I guess we'll see what direction Fremantle moves us in.
Dec 03 15:42:51 <johnx> RST38h, everyone's been hit with an app causing a power drain at one point or another, or a simple packaging mistake leading to a reboot loop
Dec 03 15:43:00 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, but that gap between "desktop" and "phone" is closing rather rapidly.
Dec 03 15:43:01 <RST38h> lardman: The way Symbian works, it will remain deadlock hell
Dec 03 15:43:10 <Summeli> ehh, you shouldn't get deadlocks in symbian, because the activeobjects don't do that :)
Dec 03 15:43:17 <lardman> RST38h: as in the structure of the kernel?
Dec 03 15:43:32 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, in terms of power yes, but in terms of what apps get to do, not really
Dec 03 15:43:33 <RST38h> johnx: drain: all the drain cases were tracked down to two-three apps
Dec 03 15:43:55 <lardman> Summeli: well they certainly can do, as active objects are cooperatively multitasked
Dec 03 15:44:04 <johnx> RST38h, if we only consider Nokia's included apps, then yes I believe that
Dec 03 15:44:07 <RST38h> johnx: packaging: same problem may occur with Symbian if you provide it with a screwed up package
Dec 03 15:44:20 <Summeli> lardman: no, they can not
Dec 03 15:44:28 <johnx> heh, well, then I don't want a symbian phone either it seems
Dec 03 15:44:34 <lardman> Summeli: why not?
Dec 03 15:44:39 <Summeli> thats the whole reason they were invented in the first place
Dec 03 15:45:20 <Summeli> safe way of doing things
Dec 03 15:45:27 <lardman> Summeli: Ah, I'm not takling about deadlocks in the real sense of the word, just that active objects can continue running for too long
Dec 03 15:45:29 <Summeli> deadlocks are for c-coders
Dec 03 15:45:44 <Summeli> when threads starve etc.
Dec 03 15:46:10 <lardman> yeah i agree with that
Dec 03 15:46:22 <Summeli> you have different problems in symbian ;-)
Dec 03 15:46:32 <lardman> though if the code using the active object method is poorly written you just get really crap and slow code
Dec 03 15:46:39 <lardman> s/code/interaction
Dec 03 15:46:59 <Summeli> lardman: i agree with that :)
Dec 03 15:47:07 <johnx> I guess for me there is an inherent contradiction between having a hackable OS on a device I depend on
Dec 03 15:47:22 <RST38h> lardman: Symbian is based on running system calls in separate threads
Dec 03 15:47:23 <Summeli> however they should make coding "easy"
Dec 03 15:47:35 <RST38h> lardmanL Uses its own threading model, its own exception model
Dec 03 15:48:06 <RST38h> lardman: It all sounds very advanced but in practice there is no way you can insure that this system will work effiociently and reliably
Dec 03 15:48:07 <lardman> RST38h: yes manager processes
Dec 03 15:48:22 <Veggen> johnx: Just because you can don't mean you would :)
Dec 03 15:48:35 <RST38h> lardman: having said that, it is miles ahead of WinMobile
Dec 03 15:48:37 <lardman> RST38h: except that it used too, perhaps it doesn't now, I don't know
Dec 03 15:48:57 <lardman> I'd say the original version of Epoc was miles ahead of Linux for the task it was designed for
Dec 03 15:48:59 <Veggen> johnx: besides, a phone os more of a general computer nowadays, so making it easier to port to it would be a benefit.
Dec 03 15:49:05 <lardman> certainly in terms of memory usage
Dec 03 15:49:57 <johnx> Veggen, but given that it's depended upon I think the core OS should take some more active measures to make sure the device is usable
Dec 03 15:50:14 <Veggen> yah, agreed.
Dec 03 15:50:50 <johnx> which can be difficult enough without supporting mostly unmodified C code, which drags in a whole lump of random libraries
Dec 03 15:51:07 <Veggen> virtualization? core functionality runs on one virtual instance, user app on another, core functionality exports services to the user space?
Dec 03 15:51:28 * RST38h throws up at the mention of virtualization
Dec 03 15:51:37 <Veggen> ...with hard prioritizing in the OS between the virtual instances.
Dec 03 15:51:44 <johnx> RST38h, you *write* *emulators* :P
Dec 03 15:51:55 <RST38h> (and then the virtual machien manager dies and takes all your cute little VMs with it)
Dec 03 15:52:13 <Veggen> don't need to be full virtualization either. Something like openvz would be great.
Dec 03 15:52:26 <RST38h> johnx: Yes, but I never try virtualizing them =)
Dec 03 15:52:40 <Veggen> RST38h: well. Sure. you'll make sure it's rarely necessary to modify on that one.
Dec 03 15:52:43 <johnx> RST38h, well, then let's just run user stuff in an emulator :)
Dec 03 15:52:57 <RST38h> johnx: This is what Android does, doesn't it?
Dec 03 15:53:15 <johnx> RST38h, kinda like that, but it doesn't have that nice retro feel :(
Dec 03 15:56:26 * johnx pictures using a phone that consists of a linux core, running user apps inside of a newton emulator
Dec 03 15:56:29 <lardman> argh, bug #987
Dec 03 15:59:07 <Stskeeps> johnx: http://repository.mer.tspre.org/
Dec 03 15:59:15 <RST38h> johnx: Why not go for the ZX Spectrum UI?
Dec 03 15:59:15 <johnx> awesome!
Dec 03 15:59:18 <Stskeeps> can you test the speed of that (mer apt)
Dec 03 15:59:34 <johnx> sure, but it might not mean much
Dec 03 15:59:41 <johnx> my inet connection is pretty unreliable
Dec 03 15:59:51 <johnx> s/unreliable/inconsistent/
Dec 03 15:59:52 <infobot> johnx meant: my inet connection is pretty inconsistent
Dec 03 15:59:59 <qwerty12> But fast right? :D
Dec 03 16:00:09 <Stskeeps> johnx: meh, can't be worse than 2500b/s ..
Dec 03 16:00:10 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 16:00:21 <johnx> well, it *usually* isn't
Dec 03 16:01:09 <GeneralAntilles> Who ever thought something as simple as this would be some difficult to add? :\ https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2326
Dec 03 16:02:01 <qwerty12> Knowing yerga, if the bastards didn't keep a trivial thing such as an applet closed, he'd have patched it himself
Dec 03 16:02:14 <johnx> average of 220KB/s but it was up to almost 300KB/s for part of it
Dec 03 16:02:18 <Stskeeps> johnx: fine
Dec 03 16:02:29 <Stskeeps> it'll be better when we get mirrors i guess
Dec 03 16:02:35 <Stskeeps> i'll adjust the builders
Dec 03 16:03:07 <lardman> qwerty12: I guess it would be possible to write a replacement with the available info though
Dec 03 16:03:09 <johnx> I have hildon-desktop w/ maemo-launcher support running on real ARM hardware :)
Dec 03 16:03:21 <RST38h> Speed contacts applet is useless anyway
Dec 03 16:03:31 <RST38h> too large font, too few contacts
Dec 03 16:03:38 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, we should elect yerga as the maemo.org patchmaster. ;)
Dec 03 16:03:58 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, it was good previously
Dec 03 16:04:03 <GeneralAntilles> Could add plenty of contacts
Dec 03 16:04:14 <GeneralAntilles> Then they fucking broke it and now they refuse to fix it.
Dec 03 16:04:28 <RST38h> The first one I got to use was the one in Chinook and it already sicked
Dec 03 16:04:51 <RST38h> s/sicked/sucked
Dec 03 16:04:52 <GeneralAntilles> For some reason they thought 4 contacts with avatars was more useful than 8 or 10 without.
Dec 03 16:04:59 <Stskeeps> johnx: it works now?
Dec 03 16:05:01 <qwerty12> It's one thing keeping things like BME closed but keeping an contacts applet makes me want to smack the person who made that decision in the balls.
Dec 03 16:05:07 <johnx> Stskeeps, yeah, I linked with -pie
Dec 03 16:05:09 <Stskeeps> johnx: btw builder just went tits up :P
Dec 03 16:05:19 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, it wouldn't be so bad if they weren't so retarded in the implementation.
Dec 03 16:05:20 <GeneralAntilles> But damn.
Dec 03 16:05:28 <qwerty12> True :(
Dec 03 16:05:36 <Stskeeps> Advanced Contacts?
Dec 03 16:05:37 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 16:05:45 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, Was the bora version good?
Dec 03 16:05:50 <GeneralAntilles> You'd get better use of screen real estate by filling the space taken up by speed contacts for 4 contacts with clocks.
Dec 03 16:06:02 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, it was exactly like the current version, except with a useful number of contacts. ;)
Dec 03 16:06:14 <GeneralAntilles> Because no stupid avatars.
Dec 03 16:06:32 <GeneralAntilles> "Avatars are more important than having friends" apparently.
Dec 03 16:06:36 <qwerty12> hehe
Dec 03 16:06:47 <johnx> Stskeeps, no problem, anyways, was -export-dynamic getting eaten along with -shared ?
Dec 03 16:06:50 <Stskeeps> johnx: nop
Dec 03 16:06:58 <Stskeeps> i just think -pie wasn't included
Dec 03 16:06:59 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, when should I start playing with Mer? :P
Dec 03 16:07:12 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: we're working on it :P
Dec 03 16:07:13 <johnx> Stskeeps, should work without -pie though, right? technically?
Dec 03 16:07:26 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, what do you want to help with?
Dec 03 16:07:39 <Stskeeps> johnx: i think the issue is really that maemo-launcher cflags doesn't set correctly
Dec 03 16:07:45 <Stskeeps> so no -fpie for example
Dec 03 16:07:56 <Stskeeps> is it possible to combine -fpie and -fPIC?
Dec 03 16:07:56 <johnx> hmm, the pkg-config looked right
Dec 03 16:08:03 <Stskeeps> it has -pie in it?
Dec 03 16:08:20 <johnx> no, it didn't but there should have been two ways, right?
Dec 03 16:08:28 <Stskeeps> mm, true
Dec 03 16:08:30 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, PR? Documentation? :P
Dec 03 16:08:34 <johnx> with -shared or -pie?
Dec 03 16:08:51 <Stskeeps> johnx: i guess fix will be adding -pie in src/Makefile.am in h-d
Dec 03 16:08:53 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, in that case, help by not attracting too many users right now :)
Dec 03 16:09:05 <johnx> Stskeeps, it can be added in debian/rules just fine
Dec 03 16:09:08 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 03 16:09:12 <johnx> LAUNCHER_LDFLAGS = -pie
Dec 03 16:09:13 <Stskeeps> true
Dec 03 16:09:23 <johnx> tested, builds, runs
Dec 03 16:09:40 <Stskeeps> i'll add it to my branch - any other changes?
Dec 03 16:09:41 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, but I was gonna make a giant announcement on itT about Fremantle for N8x0 available right now. :P
Dec 03 16:09:53 * johnx kries :(
Dec 03 16:09:53 <Stskeeps> dear god
Dec 03 16:10:06 * Stskeeps wants fremantle sdk
Dec 03 16:10:06 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 16:10:10 <Stskeeps> atleast the alpha
Dec 03 16:10:28 <GeneralAntilles> "All signs point to some time before the end of the year." ;)
Dec 03 16:10:33 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, I'd just run. I'd shave my head and join a WinMo forum if you sicked the users on me like that O_o;
Dec 03 16:10:49 <GeneralAntilles> Ehehe
Dec 03 16:11:18 <GeneralAntilles> I think I'd also have to put together some really easy to use, but also really brittle install scripts.
Dec 03 16:11:21 <qwerty12> How is mer installed? I do not want to replace the install on flash but I'm not averse to debootstrapping on an SD or mounting an jffs2 image and dumping the files straight on an SD.
Dec 03 16:11:41 <lardman> Stskeeps: patience
Dec 03 16:11:58 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm, I think my microwave is broken. :(
Dec 03 16:12:00 <johnx> qwerty12, right now, i setup by debootstrapping ubuntu jaunty and installing the mer stuffs
Dec 03 16:12:15 <qwerty12> cool
Dec 03 16:14:04 <johnx> one of the next things I do after a little more testing on hildon-desktop is to put up the first draft of a meta package that pulls in enough to run hildon-desktop
Dec 03 16:15:24 <johnx> Stskeeps, do you think there's some advantage to staying close to Nokia's packaging of hildon-desktop or does it seem reasonable to mostly borrow Debian's?
Dec 03 16:15:45 <qwerty12> Burn netsplit, burn!
Dec 03 16:16:06 <johnx> I figured they were running from my meta-package :)
Dec 03 16:16:22 <qwerty12> johnx, Not for long it seems :P
Dec 03 16:16:42 <johnx> <johnx> Stskeeps, do you think there's some advantage to staying close to Nokia's packaging of hildon-desktop or does it seem reasonable to mostly borrow Debian's?
Dec 03 16:17:57 <Stskeeps> johnx: what were the differences again?
Dec 03 16:18:25 <johnx> one sec
Dec 03 16:20:30 <johnx> basically, that the debian one has a much cleaner rules file
Dec 03 16:20:54 <johnx> and already has the init stuff removed and switched to start-hildon
Dec 03 16:21:30 <Stskeeps> fine - and i guess there's some dependancies removied?
Dec 03 16:22:56 <johnx> well, the lack of dependency on the whole hildon-initscripts osso-af-startup is the only one it seems
Dec 03 16:23:56 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 03 16:24:22 <johnx> also, the package layout is more debian than Nokia :)
Dec 03 16:25:13 <johnx> so far, moving it forward from 2.0.7 to 2.0.19 was almost no work, so I don't see big problems continuing to follow Nokia's hildon-desktop with the debian/ from Debian
Dec 03 16:29:00 <Meiz_n810> Jauntys packages.gz is one meg bigger than hastys... still no LXDE or MID packages...
Dec 03 16:29:45 <johnx> Meiz_n810, whip out that compiler :D
Dec 03 16:30:04 <Meiz_n810> :)
Dec 03 16:30:25 <StsN800> of course it starts hailing at the same time my server stops answering..
Dec 03 16:31:02 <Meiz_n810> i wanna port something to mer. I am now debootstrapping jaunty on my ubuntu-box.
Dec 03 16:31:14 <Meiz_n810> well, at least try to
Dec 03 16:31:21 <johnx> well, I'll push hildon-desktop to lp and if you want to take a look you can, but at this point it seems to work perfectly
Dec 03 16:31:37 <johnx> Meiz_n810, that sounds absolutely great! The more the merrier :D
Dec 03 16:31:56 <qwerty12> johnx, well, I just installed the "SDK" :D. Any requests?
Dec 03 16:32:26 <johnx> qwerty12, whatever you think is needed.
Dec 03 16:32:47 <StsN800> trac/mer repo is down .. going to go reboot it in 5
Dec 03 16:33:18 <Meiz_n810> i got forbidden
Dec 03 16:33:40 <GeneralAntilles> Should Maemo-Upgrade-Description offer "pretty" formatting?
Dec 03 16:33:41 <qwerty12> I have no idea of how any of this works nor what packages would be nice. Ah well, I'll leave it installed as an option but time to go back to some maemo modding :)
Dec 03 16:34:17 <johnx> qwerty12, alright, alright. How about a browser :)
Dec 03 16:34:40 <GeneralAntilles> It'd be a lot more user friendly to display a clean bulleted list instead of a bunch of * ... * ...
Dec 03 16:34:54 <qwerty12> johnx, Sure! apt-get source links :P
Dec 03 16:35:21 <johnx> I was thinking about something already hildonized. :P maybe midori? or tear?
Dec 03 16:36:24 <qwerty12> I'll try midori, compiling tear will require me to compile webkit and I don't have the copious amounts of caffeine needed to keep me awake :)
Dec 03 16:37:52 <johnx> qwerty12, you're building on x86, right?
Dec 03 16:38:02 <qwerty12> johnx, yep
Dec 03 16:38:24 <johnx> it should be built in jaunty
Dec 03 16:38:38 <qwerty12> root@faheem-desktop:/# cat /etc/lsb-release
Dec 03 16:38:39 <qwerty12> DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
Dec 03 16:38:39 <qwerty12> DISTRIB_RELEASE=9.04
Dec 03 16:38:39 <qwerty12> DISTRIB_CODENAME=jaunty
Dec 03 16:38:39 <qwerty12> DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu jaunty (development branch)"
Dec 03 16:38:39 <qwerty12> root@faheem-desktop:/# ls
Dec 03 16:38:41 <qwerty12>  :)
Dec 03 16:38:50 <johnx> or is there a maemo specific fork of webkit for tear?
Dec 03 16:39:05 <qwerty12> No, Bundyo is using the old one in chinook extras
Dec 03 16:39:07 <GeneralAntilles> It's really old these days.
Dec 03 16:39:20 <johnx> ah, and a new one won't just drop in?
Dec 03 16:39:21 <woglinde> johnx hm maybee the new qt 4.5 packages have it
Dec 03 16:39:47 <qwerty12> johnx, Bundyo no idea, I know Bundyo got the new one to compile for Diablo but some problem or other
Dec 03 16:39:55 <qwerty12> s/Bundyo/I have/
Dec 03 16:39:55 <infobot> qwerty12 meant: johnx, I have no idea, I know Bundyo got the new one to compile for Diablo but some problem or other
Dec 03 16:39:55 <johnx> hmmm, qt "auto-hildonizes" stuff, right?
Dec 03 16:41:03 <woglinde> johny jupp
Dec 03 16:41:16 <woglinde> or better gtkstyled
Dec 03 16:41:17 <qwerty12> Something like that, I think menubar, "main window" & input method is done
Dec 03 16:41:21 <woglinde> and hildonized
Dec 03 16:41:36 <johnx> this might be extremely awesome :)
Dec 03 16:43:16 <johnx> maybe I should try to get maemo qt4 packaged and install arora :)
Dec 03 16:43:47 <woglinde> hehe
Dec 03 16:44:09 <johnx> well, it would make a good test
Dec 03 16:44:29 <woglinde> hopefully it will work
Dec 03 16:44:45 <qwerty12> grr, stupid rules file uses cdbs.
Dec 03 16:45:02 <johnx> well, even if it doesn't work, it's valueable to find roadblocks early :)
Dec 03 16:45:32 <woglinde> qwerty na
Dec 03 16:46:27 <qwerty12> woglinde, cdbs makes me want to shoot myself and the person who devised it :)
Dec 03 16:46:52 <johnx> yeah, I'm a big fan of plain old dh_make now
Dec 03 16:47:31 <johnx> I might as well start with qt4.5 I suppose
Dec 03 16:49:55 <Stskeeps> there we go
Dec 03 16:50:01 <johnx> so your server is outside in the hail?
Dec 03 16:50:13 <johnx> did you bring it inside? :P
Dec 03 16:50:39 <Stskeeps> hehe.. have some problems with the HD cables i suspect, so it dies rather than loosing data, which is fine
Dec 03 16:52:18 <mikkov_> cdbs isn't that bad, it just doesn't work on maemo ;)
Dec 03 16:53:03 <johnx> hmm, you mean scratchbox or maemo?
Dec 03 16:53:42 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: we have vala in mer already just fyi, (regarding Tear)
Dec 03 16:53:48 <mikkov_> scratchbox
Dec 03 16:53:57 <qwerty12> oh, I can build/modify packages using it fine, just the syntax pisses me off. I don't understand for example why I have to use CFLAGS_packagename instead of a plain CFLAGS = etc
Dec 03 16:54:02 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, cool
Dec 03 16:54:45 <johnx> Stskeeps, I think as a break from hildon-desktop I'll try bringing in maemo QT4.5 :)
Dec 03 16:55:41 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 03 16:55:46 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, do you have h-a-m in Mer? (Asking so I know whether I should include maemo-select-menu-location in the postinst)
Dec 03 16:55:56 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: not yet, atleast, feel free to see if it compiles :P
Dec 03 16:56:47 <qwerty12> k :)
Dec 03 16:57:15 <johnx> qwerty12, just got hildon-desktop running a couple minutes ago. you're pretty much left with a main menu that has nothing in it :)
Dec 03 16:58:09 <qwerty12> johnx, :)
Dec 03 16:58:31 <johnx> actually, running hildon-desktop inside a chroot turns out to be less than straightforward
Dec 03 16:58:56 <johnx> borrowing that osso-af-startup.sh (or whatever...) script from scratchbox might make it work though
Dec 03 16:59:37 <qwerty12> af-sb-init?
Dec 03 16:59:42 <johnx> right, that :)
Dec 03 17:00:02 * johnx sighs
Dec 03 17:00:25 <johnx> af-sb-init might need to be modified though
Dec 03 17:02:23 <Stskeeps> johnx: xephyr or not?
Dec 03 17:02:24 * johnx is a little fuzzy on where qt4.5 is in the svn repo...
Dec 03 17:02:33 <Stskeeps> qt4-maemo.garage?
Dec 03 17:02:33 <johnx> Xephyr isn't a problem
Dec 03 17:02:36 <Stskeeps> or the likes
Dec 03 17:02:56 <johnx> well, qt4.4 is in svn, and qt4.5 is only available as a package AFAICT
Dec 03 17:03:09 <Stskeeps> is it in extras?
Dec 03 17:03:52 <johnx> extras-devel
Dec 03 17:03:56 <johnx> qt4.5 preview
Dec 03 17:04:04 <johnx> anyways, I'll just go from the source packages there
Dec 03 17:04:18 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 03 17:04:39 <Stskeeps> something tells me qt4.5 building on jaiku builders will make them keel over
Dec 03 17:04:47 <johnx> uhm, qt is ... big
Dec 03 17:04:52 <johnx> Stskeeps, I'll keep it local for now
Dec 03 17:05:47 <johnx> I'm already dying a little inside at the thought of how bzr will cope with this source tree
Dec 03 17:07:33 <Stskeeps> hehe
Dec 03 17:16:26 * Stskeeps notes that repository.mer.tspre.org and repository.mer.maemo.org is way too similar.
Dec 03 17:17:58 <lopz> 	
Dec 03 17:17:58 <lopz> Hirvinen, how can I move to the next track console? as does audtool of audacious, I want to control the player from console
Dec 03 17:18:08 <lopz> hi*
Dec 03 17:18:24 * lopz slap tab
Dec 03 17:19:21 <Stskeeps> johnx: builder much faster at actually getting packages now :P
Dec 03 17:19:22 <kost-bebix> Hi! Is there a way to format internal flash drive to fat32 if system on tablet is broken? I tried to install diablo to my n810 when vfat on internal card was broken. I thought it will format internal sd, but it didn't and now tablet is some kind of "dead" (
Dec 03 17:20:12 <kost-bebix> Or should I go to some service center and ask them to format internal drive? (I think diablo will then install fine)
Dec 03 17:21:20 <johnx> kost-bebix, there are two internal drives. The one formatted as fat is just storage space. The actual OS is installed to a 256MB flash memory chip
Dec 03 17:21:47 <johnx> What exactly do you mean by "dead"?
Dec 03 17:22:41 <kost-bebix> johnx: I mean system on it is broken and it can't be turned on (it reboots all the time). One second, I'll find my post to mail-list
Dec 03 17:22:55 <lopz> any ideas?
Dec 03 17:23:38 <Stskeeps> kost-bebix: does it show the nokia logo?
Dec 03 17:23:55 <johnx> lopz, there is a dbus interface: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/42197
Dec 03 17:24:05 <johnx> lopz, maybe you could use that information with dbus-send?
Dec 03 17:24:06 <kost-bebix> Stskeeps: yep. I can even try to install diablo through usb (it loads the kernel, but then shows error)
Dec 03 17:24:26 <johnx> kost-bebix, what error exactly?
Dec 03 17:24:46 <kost-bebix> here it is http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-users/2008-November/036009.html
Dec 03 17:25:24 <lopz> johnx, hi, The idea is to control the player bluetooth
Dec 03 17:26:02 <kost-bebix> Because everyone who had similar error were just typing -r instead of -F. When they typed -F everything worked (but not for me :-(
Dec 03 17:26:11 <johnx> kost-bebix, it looks like it finished
Dec 03 17:26:31 <johnx> but after that it doesn't boot?
Dec 03 17:27:07 <kost-bebix> johnx: no. It stays on nokia boot image. And after about 30 seconds reboots... and again and again
Dec 03 17:27:31 <kost-bebix> johnx: Sending request 0x52 failed! is the error while installing diablo.
Dec 03 17:28:09 <johnx> kost-bebix, but it prints that *after* it finishes flashing
Dec 03 17:28:20 <kost-bebix> johnx: yes)
Dec 03 17:28:29 <johnx> did you have other problems before you reflashed?
Dec 03 17:28:44 <johnx> it could be a hardware problem
Dec 03 17:28:44 <kost-bebix> johnx: no. Only broken vfat on mcc1
Dec 03 17:29:48 <kost-bebix> johnx: as I already said, people who typed -r instead -F had similar simptoms (it finished flashing), but still wasn't working.
Dec 03 17:30:14 <Stskeeps> johnx: think we'll stick with repo upload being at trac.tspre.org - upload seems fine, download is just crap :P
Dec 03 17:31:18 <lopz> johnx,  Using mplayer, I can not control console, without using keys? something like, for example mplayer --next-song
Dec 03 17:32:54 <johnx> lopz, look up mplayer slave mode
Dec 03 17:33:18 <johnx> kost-bebix, I've gotten the same error message before and my tablet booted after that. You could try reflashing again I guess
Dec 03 17:33:20 <lopz> johnx, ok, thanks :)
Dec 03 17:33:32 <Stskeeps> heh
Dec 03 17:33:34 <Stskeeps> johnx: http://labs.o-hand.com/xoo/
Dec 03 17:34:00 <kost-bebix> johnx: thanx. Maybe I'll try install another (earlier) version of diablo.
Dec 03 17:34:04 <johnx> Stskeeps, sounds good. about to pull the trigger on qt4.5 build and go to bed
Dec 03 17:34:14 <johnx> kost-bebix, that's not the problem ...
Dec 03 17:34:31 <johnx> the latest version is fine
Dec 03 17:34:43 <johnx> Stskeeps, that looks pretty cool actually
Dec 03 17:35:51 <Stskeeps> johnx: k, i'll work on improving our "developer tools", i think
Dec 03 17:35:56 <Stskeeps> did you get it going in chroot?
Dec 03 17:36:03 <kost-bebix> johnx: well, I tried to reinstall that several times. What if it won't work, can I request another n810 from company? Or if I tried to reinstall software I can't do that anymore?
Dec 03 17:36:05 <johnx> hildon-desktop? not yet
Dec 03 17:36:36 <Stskeeps> k
Dec 03 17:36:45 <johnx> kost-bebix, yes, if your device doesn't work you should get Nokia to replace it. installing software doesn't affect your warranty
Dec 03 17:37:01 <kost-bebix> johnx: thanks a lot!)
Dec 03 17:37:18 <kost-bebix> it's a good news for me :-)
Dec 03 17:37:29 <b1ackd3ath> dose any one know make the boot menu come up with out holding down the home key?
Dec 03 17:38:45 <johnx> b1ackd3ath, I don't think it's possible. may I ask why you want to do that?
Dec 03 17:38:59 <Stskeeps> johnx: .. editing linuxrc probably does the trick
Dec 03 17:39:25 <b1ackd3ath> so it dosnt boot into the the default flash right away
Dec 03 17:40:01 <b1ackd3ath> cuz id rather boot on to my external mmc card
Dec 03 17:40:27 <johnx> you've hear of fanoush's bootmenu, right?
Dec 03 17:40:36 <b1ackd3ath> im using it
Dec 03 17:40:54 <b1ackd3ath> i guess i could just change the order of the mdnu
Dec 03 17:40:59 <b1ackd3ath> *menu
Dec 03 17:42:11 <b1ackd3ath> but i was mainly woundering  about the no having to press the home key
Dec 03 17:43:02 <b1ackd3ath> *not ug my n810 keyboard is messing up my type o's sorry
Dec 03 17:43:07 <johnx> I don't have to on mine...that's why I thought you weren't using it
Dec 03 17:43:18 <Meiz_n810> Bootmenu have always been showed on my n810, i have never pressed the home key to use it
Dec 03 17:44:21 <b1ackd3ath> so by best bet is to just modify intifs
Dec 03 17:44:49 <b1ackd3ath> yeh thats what i'll do
Dec 03 17:47:14 <b1ackd3ath> has any on changed there /etc/systemui/systemui.xml to add the reboot option?
Dec 03 17:47:25 <qwerty12> yes, works fine.
Dec 03 17:47:49 <b1ackd3ath> on the internal flash too?
Dec 03 17:48:50 <b1ackd3ath> cuz i cant get mine to work i got it to work on the default flash os but not my internal flash
Dec 03 17:50:10 <b1ackd3ath> be right back gonna reboot my n810
Dec 03 17:52:38 <b1ackd3ath> back nvm
Dec 03 17:52:50 <b1ackd3ath> rebooting made it come up
Dec 03 17:53:39 <b1ackd3ath> anyone have any trouble with the advanced power manager?
Dec 03 17:56:49 <qwerty12> Fuck. I have to learn where the lock screen and hibernate button is >.<
Dec 03 17:57:36 <Proteous> ...
Dec 03 17:57:57 <johnx> alright, qt4.5 is starting to build, and I'm gonna catch some sleep
Dec 03 17:58:05 <johnx> 'night all
Dec 03 17:59:12 <Stskeeps> nini
Dec 03 17:59:18 <b1ackd3ath> pc im out too takes for the help
Dec 03 18:04:54 <Stskeeps> johnx: i'll stage hildon-desktop and build it on builders
Dec 03 18:06:18 <Meiz_n810> if i add deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo free non-free, will i be able to apt-get source maemo packages?
Dec 03 18:07:03 <qwerty12> no
Dec 03 18:07:03 <qwerty12> deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo/sdk free
Dec 03 18:07:28 <Meiz_n810> then i can port maemo things for mer?
Dec 03 18:07:33 <qwerty12> oh, yeah, with the proper deb-src line, yes apt-get source will work
Dec 03 18:09:07 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: you're better off just grabbing the .dsc .diff.gz and .tar.gz from the /pool directories really
Dec 03 18:09:15 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: there's a guide for it on the blueprint page
Dec 03 18:09:22 <Meiz_n810> k
Dec 03 18:09:52 <Stskeeps> you can try out with applications in extras first, probably more interesting
Dec 03 18:10:12 <Stskeeps> (http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/)
Dec 03 18:10:28 <Stskeeps> source is in http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/free/source/
Dec 03 18:10:52 <Meiz_n810> what app should i try first :)
Dec 03 18:11:18 <Stskeeps> advanced backlight
Dec 03 18:11:19 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 18:11:30 <Stskeeps> that's usually our test app
Dec 03 18:11:34 <Meiz_n810> ok
Dec 03 18:11:38 <Meiz_n810> i'll try
Dec 03 18:11:48 <Stskeeps> .. but ok, that one might not apply on i386
Dec 03 18:11:49 <Stskeeps> sec
Dec 03 18:11:59 <Meiz_n810> i'll still try
Dec 03 18:12:04 <Meiz_n810> <--- Really n00b with things like this... :)
Dec 03 18:12:54 <Stskeeps> .. try to find one that makes sense, simple hildon app, i guess
Dec 03 18:13:03 <Stskeeps> maemo mapper is out of the question cos of gpsbt
Dec 03 18:13:04 <Meiz_n810> k
Dec 03 18:13:29 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, please, please can I port an hildonized hello world?
Dec 03 18:13:38 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: go ahead :P
Dec 03 18:13:44 <qwerty12> wheee!!!!
Dec 03 18:13:44 <Stskeeps> maemopad? :P
Dec 03 18:15:21 <qwerty12> hehe
Dec 03 18:16:05 <lcuk> port liqbase, its only small
Dec 03 18:16:25 * lcuk laughs evily
Dec 03 18:16:37 * qwerty12 adds in a northerner notice for liqbase mer edition
Dec 03 18:17:07 <qwerty12> now it's my turn to laugh :P
Dec 03 18:17:20 <qwerty12> But I see the <lame> humor is not share
Dec 03 18:17:23 * qwerty12 shuts the fuck up
Dec 03 18:17:42 <lcuk> heh
Dec 03 18:25:52 <etrunko> cool picture
Dec 03 18:25:54 <etrunko> http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/12/n97_maemo_494.jpg
Dec 03 18:26:13 <etrunko> from http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/gizmodo/full/~3/R5ASCqY2G8k/nokias-down-with-making-a-high+end-open-source-phone-just-not-with-android
Dec 03 18:27:27 <GeneralAntilles> Totally invalid use of that logo. . . .
Dec 03 18:27:39 <Stskeeps> hehe
Dec 03 18:27:42 <Stskeeps> "Maemophone"
Dec 03 18:28:36 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody feel like pulling up one of the "The next tablet's pricing will be mostly inline with current hardware" quotes?
Dec 03 18:28:44 <GeneralAntilles> Qole is being babyish about it.
Dec 03 18:29:12 <Stskeeps> if it doesn't have voice in it, it should definately be below n97 pricing
Dec 03 18:29:12 <qwerty12> GeneralAntilles, These channels are logged.
Dec 03 18:29:20 <Stskeeps> :>
Dec 03 18:29:22 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, :P
Dec 03 18:29:27 <qwerty12> hehe :P
Dec 03 18:30:16 <GeneralAntilles> Oh well, he can believe me or not. One of us will be proven wrong when RX-51 is finally out. :P
Dec 03 18:31:29 <GeneralAntilles> Man, Igor and fanoush and Mark can't pull his head out of his own ass.
Dec 03 18:31:45 <Stskeeps> where's the trouble these times?
Dec 03 18:31:55 <GeneralAntilles> -users, as usual. :P
Dec 03 18:31:56 <Stskeeps> s/these/this/
Dec 03 18:31:57 <Stskeeps> ah.
Dec 03 18:31:57 <infobot> Stskeeps meant: where's the trouble this times?
Dec 03 18:32:12 <GeneralAntilles> http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2008-December/036046.html
Dec 03 18:32:39 <Stskeeps> yeah, readin'
Dec 03 18:33:45 <Stskeeps> well that was a couple of minutes wasted of my time
Dec 03 18:33:54 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Dec 03 18:34:04 <GeneralAntilles> Nobody held a gun to your head. :P
Dec 03 18:34:14 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm, I don't have any tasks to pick up for December.
Dec 03 18:34:22 * qwerty12 disables the missiles pointed at Stskeeps 
Dec 03 18:42:07 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: community distribution: collaboration, structure/management maybe, how should one be managed and formed? I mean, what i've seen is just proposals on what it should include..
Dec 03 18:42:24 <Stskeeps> but not how it's managed and structured/manned
Dec 03 18:42:34 <Stskeeps> (vision stuff, not right-here-and-now)
Dec 03 18:42:53 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm, I dunno.
Dec 03 18:43:07 <GeneralAntilles> I kinda want something concrete to start happening before I kick off anything like that.
Dec 03 18:43:28 <Stskeeps> yeah, of course, just putting it out there cos i'm starting have thoughts in that direction
Dec 03 18:43:43 <Stskeeps> cos any distribution keels over without proper structure when it attracts enough attention
Dec 03 18:44:38 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, I've got a dirty build of maemo mapper... but I've to gtfo of my computer now >.<
Dec 03 18:44:48 <Stskeeps> hehe, okay
Dec 03 18:45:19 <qwerty12> any way of testing in a i386 chroot or will I have to compile on device :)?
Dec 03 18:45:19 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm, well.
Dec 03 18:45:41 <GeneralAntilles> etrunko's got some of that with https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Collaboration_infrastructure
Dec 03 18:46:35 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: i would assume it would be possible to start dbus daemons and use xephyr or something in chroot.. but im not sure, johnx was on that
Dec 03 18:46:52 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: but alone maemo mapper compiling, dirtily, is a good sign
Dec 03 18:47:51 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, I dunno if I feel like breaking it up into smaller chunks for this Sprint
Dec 03 18:48:06 <qwerty12_N800> while libgpsmgr are closed, redistribution is allowed
Dec 03 18:48:11 <GeneralAntilles> But if we want to start pushing Variants and Collaboration infrastructure, I'm all in. :)
Dec 03 18:48:47 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: collaboration infrastructure and variants is definately a topic to be worked on
Dec 03 18:50:20 <Stskeeps> collaboration and publishing branches for maemo (OS) should be as easy as it is on launchpad
Dec 03 18:50:42 <Stskeeps> if you want access to fool around on Mer launchpad (mer launchpad -is- a experimental part of the project too), you can just say :P
Dec 03 18:51:26 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, version control isn't my thing :)
Dec 03 18:55:10 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: i've really learnt to appreciate it.. bzr also has local branches which helps a lot
Dec 03 18:56:20 <qwerty12_N800> :)
Dec 03 18:57:03 <Stskeeps> so you can commit to your local branch and then push to the public one
Dec 03 18:57:58 <gnuton> Hi there
Dec 03 18:58:08 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, gnuton.
Dec 03 18:58:29 <gnuton> Hello GeneralAntilles ! :D
Dec 03 18:59:05 <woglinde> hi gnuton
Dec 03 18:59:22 <gnuton> Hey woglinde
Dec 03 18:59:24 <gnuton> :D
Dec 03 19:00:34 * lcuk ninja flying kick
Dec 03 19:00:46 <woglinde> lcuk haha
Dec 03 19:00:53 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, You may want to take a look at maemo's libfontconfig (if you haven't done so already) - it has the important device_symbols.h file
Dec 03 19:01:01 <woglinde> lcuk you fall down on your butt
Dec 03 19:01:05 <woglinde> will
Dec 03 19:01:08 <lcuk> oh hiya woglinde i guess that was the wrong chan ;)
Dec 03 19:01:26 <lcuk> mmm qwerty libfontconfig
Dec 03 19:01:35 <lcuk> is that a normal thing and does it enum the fonts in the system?
Dec 03 19:02:22 * Jaffa train spods
Dec 03 19:03:18 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: device_symbols does what?
Dec 03 19:03:30 <lcuk> jaffa? typo or have you stopped training pods now
Dec 03 19:04:07 <lcuk> ahhh
Dec 03 19:04:13 * Jaffa is spodding from the  the train
Dec 03 19:04:20 <woglinde> train spotting
Dec 03 19:05:30 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, "defines unicode values for device symbols of hardware buttons" - i presume maemo-mapper needs it for its all important ability to manipulate the map etc
Dec 03 19:05:35 <lcuk> "Spodding" is also a specific common verb used in fishing to denote the use of a "Spod" or "Spod Rocket" to deliver lose feed for fish to a specific area of a water or river for the purposes of fishing.
Dec 03 19:05:41 <lcuk> mmmm is that legal from a moving train?
Dec 03 19:06:03 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: you chairing the 2000 UTC meeting tonight?
Dec 03 19:06:21 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah I guess I should.
Dec 03 19:06:25 * GeneralAntilles forgot about that.
Dec 03 19:06:44 <lcuk> to be clear, this meeting, is it in 55minutes
Dec 03 19:06:51 <GeneralAntilles> It is.
Dec 03 19:06:54 <woglinde> *g*
Dec 03 19:06:56 <GeneralAntilles> This should help, though. https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints ;)
Dec 03 19:06:58 * lcuk hates utc
Dec 03 19:07:03 <Jaffa> lcuk: Probably the more "do computery things, spc. online MUDs, talkers and IRC"
Dec 03 19:07:06 <woglinde> lcuk why?
Dec 03 19:07:25 * GeneralAntilles has to duck out for a bit, will be back.
Dec 03 19:07:32 <lcuk> i want my computer to automatically translate all times and dates into northern
Dec 03 19:07:36 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, works for me as we're +0000 atm :)
Dec 03 19:07:43 <lcuk> for now
Dec 03 19:08:14 <Jaffa> lcuk: eight o'clock,lad. Be back from down t'pit by then, or yersen'll be late
Dec 03 19:08:18 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: a
Dec 03 19:08:18 <Stskeeps> h
Dec 03 19:08:19 * lcuk pushes for a proper true northern dialect en-nt
Dec 03 19:08:21 <lardman> qwerty12_N800: I think he means, "ee uup lad, in the moorning" or similar... ;)
Dec 03 19:08:45 <qwerty12_N800> lol
Dec 03 19:08:49 <lardman> all at once we attack lcuk :)
Dec 03 19:09:00 <lcuk> aye thanks thar jaffa, shall just have time to duck in'th tub as long as me dad n gradnda 'ave finished
Dec 03 19:09:18 <lcuk> you southern jessies couldnt handle it
Dec 03 19:09:31 <lcuk> i was out in the snow iwth only a vest, tshirt, jumper and coat today!
Dec 03 19:10:03 <qwerty12_N800> yeah, yeah...
Dec 03 19:10:07 <Jaffa> Pfft, I'm from Macclesfield I'll have yer know. Ye don't want a Macc Lad on yer case ;-p
Dec 03 19:10:54 <lcuk> :D you must like your beer n sex n chips n gravy then :D
Dec 03 19:11:28 <qwerty12_N800> Us East London boiz do the best ting with our zut's n' shanks. i'll fuk up manchester & macclesfield rascal :p
Dec 03 19:11:46 <Jaffa> lcuk: spot on
Dec 03 19:11:49 <woglinde> wahahaa
Dec 03 19:11:57 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: auch @ argument by ignorance
Dec 03 19:12:37 <Proteous> what is a jumper?
Dec 03 19:13:09 * lardman doesn't say anything about being 1/2 Australian, I think that's in the South somewhere...
Dec 03 19:13:35 <lcuk> Proteous, knitted sweater
Dec 03 19:14:02 <Proteous> ah
Dec 03 19:14:16 <Proteous> so no trousers?
Dec 03 19:14:17 <lcuk> lardman, didnt know that , were you born up here or down there?
Dec 03 19:14:36 <lcuk> Proteous, i suppose you could use a jumper as your trousers, but it would look a bit daft
Dec 03 19:14:48 <Proteous> well, you didn't say you were wearing anything over your legs
Dec 03 19:14:53 <lardman> lcuk: up here
Dec 03 19:15:37 <lardman> where's the component versions list gone to?
Dec 03 19:15:42 <lcuk> cool, ist here much family down there to have an excuse to get away from the weather
Dec 03 19:15:59 <lardman> lcuk: yeah loads over there, not much here other than immediate
Dec 03 19:16:46 <qwerty12_N800> lardman, http://repository.maemo.org/stable/diablo/4.1_vs_4.1.1_content_changes.html
Dec 03 19:16:58 <lardman> thanks qwerty12_N800
Dec 03 19:17:09 <Jaffa> Next summit in .au, then ;-)
Dec 03 19:17:18 <lardman> sounds ideal to me :)
Dec 03 19:17:49 <lcuk> we might need another maemo bugmaster, some of the insects down there are bad
Dec 03 19:17:56 <Jaffa> Your relatives' house for a barbie?
Dec 03 19:18:12 <lardman> Jaffa: sure :)
Dec 03 19:18:16 <lcuk> jaffa, its worth way more than a barbie, include a ken as well
Dec 03 19:18:42 <Meiz_n810> ported mediabox...
Dec 03 19:18:46 <Proteous> what about the beach house
Dec 03 19:18:52 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: compiled without issue?
Dec 03 19:18:57 <Meiz_n810> yes
Dec 03 19:19:14 <lardman> Proteous: bbq on the beach then?
Dec 03 19:19:14 <Meiz_n810> is there a log i can view you
Dec 03 19:19:41 <Proteous> at the barbie beach house?
Dec 03 19:19:44 <Proteous> count me in
Dec 03 19:19:52 <Proteous> only if I can drive the barbie convertable
Dec 03 19:20:12 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: honestly i have no idea if it should work now, it gave me some warnings...
Dec 03 19:20:13 <lcuk> ok smithers
Dec 03 19:20:15 * lardman presses ctrl-- repeatedly to see if Proteous can fit
Dec 03 19:20:28 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: warnings are the norm :P it probably doesn't work on i386 that well
Dec 03 19:20:41 <Meiz_n810> k
Dec 03 19:20:56 * lcuk starts his code timer
Dec 03 19:21:01 <Stskeeps> i'll set up a /extras repository eventually, but good that it ported without big issues
Dec 03 19:21:16 <Meiz_n810> should i upload it to launchpad?
Dec 03 19:21:17 <Stskeeps> jaiku that you succeeded in building it
Dec 03 19:21:33 <Stskeeps> since you didn't have to edit source upload isn't needed i guess
Dec 03 19:21:42 <Meiz_n810> k
Dec 03 19:21:58 <Stskeeps> (keep the .deb and .tar.gz and .changes)
Dec 03 19:22:05 <RST38h> Stskeeps <--- the evil twin of the whole Nokia Maemo team
Dec 03 19:22:06 <Meiz_n810> #reconstructedPOC?
Dec 03 19:22:12 <Stskeeps> RST38h: shadow maemo sw
Dec 03 19:22:14 <Meiz_n810> or merbuilder?
Dec 03 19:22:14 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: yeah
Dec 03 19:22:17 <Meiz_n810> k
Dec 03 19:22:21 <Stskeeps> (r-poc)
Dec 03 19:22:56 <yerga> GeneralAntilles, I deserve that title ;)
Dec 03 19:23:14 <Stskeeps> yeah, i'm inclined to think so too :P
Dec 03 19:23:33 * Stskeeps tries debootstrapping ubuntu, again.
Dec 03 19:23:47 <Stskeeps> http://labs.o-hand.com/xoo/ , quite neat :>
Dec 03 19:23:53 <Stskeeps> (i know it's silly, but still)
Dec 03 19:26:38 * lcuk cant believe how much of liqbase has been ripped to shreds
Dec 03 19:26:56 * lcuk is left with a single purple rectangle
Dec 03 19:27:07 <woglinde> lcuk lol
Dec 03 19:27:16 <lardman> http://www.ti-estore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=dEmbSoft
Dec 03 19:27:27 <lardman> yow, I wonder if that's a single device license...?
Dec 03 19:27:38 <lardman> s/license/licence
Dec 03 19:27:57 <lcuk> oh crap, thought i was #liqbase blogging lol woglinde, ive gutted lb and am rebuilding furiously
Dec 03 19:28:36 <Proteous> wake up~!
Dec 03 19:28:57 * GeneralAntilles is back.
Dec 03 19:28:58 <lcuk> lardman, what are you after from there
Dec 03 19:29:02 <lcuk> and have you got a voucher
Dec 03 19:29:07 <lcuk>  / discount code
Dec 03 19:29:14 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, auch?
Dec 03 19:29:32 <lardman> lcuk: was following a random link from the web
Dec 03 19:29:36 <woglinde> ah damnit
Dec 03 19:29:42 <woglinde> joost is broken somehow
Dec 03 19:30:17 <lcuk> ahh
Dec 03 19:30:19 <qwerty12_N800> boost?
Dec 03 19:30:39 <RST38h> lcuq
Dec 03 19:30:47 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: good one :P
Dec 03 19:30:52 <lcuk> lardman, these are more in line
Dec 03 19:30:53 <lcuk> http://www.ti-estore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=dLiterature
Dec 03 19:33:25 <woglinde> http://www.joost.com
Dec 03 19:33:39 <qwerty12_N800> ah, my bad, cool
Dec 03 19:34:00 * Stskeeps loathes joost
Dec 03 19:34:01 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 19:34:13 <woglinde> wanted to see another episode of one of anime series
Dec 03 19:34:18 * qwerty12_N800 has an addiction to the boost energy drink. made in Leeds too, damn northerners :p
Dec 03 19:34:27 <woglinde> boost library
Dec 03 19:37:01 <Meiz_n810> I also compiled mytube for mer. but is it even needed?
Dec 03 19:37:20 <Meiz_n810> (should it install without rebuilding)
Dec 03 19:39:05 <lcuk> is mer actually running hildon now?
Dec 03 19:42:22 <Meiz_n810> yes, it is possible
Dec 03 19:43:31 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: i'll work a bit on getting boot scripts and such up
Dec 03 19:43:37 <Stskeeps> and so you can test on i386
Dec 03 19:44:26 <qwerty12_N800> whee (qwerty12 wants to see if maemo-mapper shits out on him wth a segfault :P)
Dec 03 19:44:40 <Stskeeps> waiting on apt-get stuff on my own stuff atm :P
Dec 03 19:44:51 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: ok
Dec 03 19:44:58 <Stskeeps> and wondering why i get 1000kb/s download..
Dec 03 19:44:59 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 19:45:12 <Meiz_n810> :P
Dec 03 19:45:36 <Meiz_n810> i get max 56.9 kb/s
Dec 03 19:45:45 <Stskeeps> i usually get max 200k/s
Dec 03 19:45:46 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 19:45:59 <Meiz_n810> i live in the middle of nowhere
Dec 03 19:46:31 <Stskeeps> at least you have dsl. :P
Dec 03 19:46:42 <Meiz_n810> adls
Dec 03 19:46:47 <Meiz_n810> *sl
Dec 03 19:46:51 <Meiz_n810> in 2011 they will get cables outta here
Dec 03 19:47:04 <Meiz_n810> then i have to use 5kb/s GPRS
Dec 03 19:49:03 <lcuk> is there a simple way to close hildon entirely or prevent it from running in the first place
Dec 03 19:49:17 <woglinde> rm -rf
Dec 03 19:49:37 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, but still have x running?
Dec 03 19:49:38 <lcuk> i should add i want to be able to re-run it later
Dec 03 19:49:43 <lcuk> yeah
Dec 03 19:49:56 <lcuk> if i go down the ps list my machine reboots
Dec 03 19:50:17 <qwerty12_N800> qole does it with the debian stuff & penguinbait does it with kde
Dec 03 19:50:27 <lcuk> mmm ill take a look
Dec 03 19:50:46 <lcuk> might get a little less variation with stuff
Dec 03 19:50:58 <lcuk> then again i might just leave it
Dec 03 19:51:03 <qwerty12_N800> if you want to experiment killing programs, easy way is to set the no-lifeguard-reset rd flag
Dec 03 19:51:14 <lcuk> but thats not a users device
Dec 03 19:51:21 <lcuk> i wont know what works and what doesnt
Dec 03 19:51:32 <lcuk> ie whats required and whats not
Dec 03 19:52:42 <qwerty12_N800> if you look through the android section, there is a list of what you can kill without the n8x0 rebooting
Dec 03 19:53:16 <lcuk> i could also find it inside /etc somewhere cant i
Dec 03 19:53:25 <lcuk> init.d rings a bell?
Dec 03 19:53:39 <lcuk> huzzah it looks right
Dec 03 19:54:10 <qwerty12_N800> /etc/rc2.d contains the items that are started by n8x0 when booting from battery
Dec 03 19:55:50 <lcuk> what are the other rcX.d things?
Dec 03 19:57:10 <qwerty12_N800> not really relevant on maemo except for rc5.d  which programs in there are started when  booting with charger in. rest is debian standard runlevels
Dec 03 19:58:03 <lcuk> ahhh cool, thank you former northern but now southern jessie boy
Dec 03 19:58:15 <qwerty12_N800> grr, :P
Dec 03 19:59:11 <lcuk> right, i must vanish, ill leave the apps running for now, but it would be interesting to find the total core minimal subset of apps required to run an x app at some point
Dec 03 20:00:54 * qwerty12_N800 is he reduced his time to make proper dbus-send cmd lines from 30m to 5m :p 
Dec 03 20:01:01 <qwerty12_N800> ^glad
Dec 03 20:04:27 <CerealKiller_713> Hey I just installed the kde boot but I was in kde when I did it .... now I am getting the loop at the start
Dec 03 20:05:16 <CerealKiller_713> Is there any way to fix this with out recloning and redownloading ?
Dec 03 20:06:38 <CerealKiller_713> I can still use the flash but my mmc is looping .... please help !
Dec 03 20:06:45 <dneary> lardman: you're in London?
Dec 03 20:07:36 * lcuk forgot about the meeting
Dec 03 20:07:37 <woglinde> ah joost is working again
Dec 03 20:07:53 <qwerty12_N800> lcuk, +1 :/
Dec 03 20:08:00 <CerealKiller_713> <~~~ US ( I wish i was in London )
Dec 03 20:08:24 <Meiz_n810> libtoolize: command not found... Where can i get libtoolize?
Dec 03 20:08:28 <lardman> dneary: no, Bath
Dec 03 20:08:29 <qwerty12_N800> to say it started at 20:00 UTC, it's a hive of activity :)
Dec 03 20:08:38 <woglinde> Meiz_n810 install libtool
Dec 03 20:08:42 <dneary> lardman: Shower, usually
Dec 03 20:08:52 <dneary> But I do occasionally like to soak
Dec 03 20:08:53 <Meiz_n810> woglinde: thanks
Dec 03 20:09:34 <tekojo> qwerty12: waiting for everyone to be there :-)
Dec 03 20:09:46 <qwerty12_N800> tekojo, ah :)
Dec 03 20:09:59 <Meiz_n810> okay aclocal-1.7 is mising too... where can i get that :L
Dec 03 20:10:07 <woglinde> 1.7?
Dec 03 20:10:10 <woglinde> muaha
Dec 03 20:10:13 <woglinde> stone age
Dec 03 20:10:37 <Meiz_n810> k
Dec 03 20:10:40 <lm2_510> hey y'all. where can I find list of those "flick"/"throw" motions that change cases without shifting?
Dec 03 20:11:13 <CerealKiller_713> is there anone in here that knows the comand to uninstall the kde boot.deb ?????
Dec 03 20:11:45 <lm2_510> I'd like to know what *other* flick/throw commands there are
Dec 03 20:12:57 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: autoconf, automake
Dec 03 20:13:40 <Meiz_n810> thanks
Dec 03 20:14:07 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: i already have them
Dec 03 20:15:26 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: autoconf-1.7 installable too, or autoconf1.7
Dec 03 20:15:37 <Meiz_n810> ok
Dec 03 20:16:46 <Meiz_n810> there is no 1.7 version of autoconf installable
Dec 03 20:17:04 <Stskeeps> sure? :P
Dec 03 20:18:10 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps:
Dec 03 20:18:12 <Meiz_n810> root@tietokone:/mer/load-applet/load-applet-0.8.2# apt-cache search autoconf autoconf - automatic configure script builder
Dec 03 20:18:18 <Meiz_n810> shit
Dec 03 20:18:20 <Meiz_n810> wait
Dec 03 20:18:28 <Stskeeps> ok, i mean automake1.7 (or automake-1.7)
Dec 03 20:18:49 <Meiz_n810> ok
Dec 03 20:21:10 * Stskeeps ponders idly on hildon-initscripts
Dec 03 20:28:02 <l7> hmm, can giving the processor too much to do at once cause a spontaneous reboot?
Dec 03 20:28:59 <l7> i was using reduced procesor performance mode while downloading a file with links and trying to open a new tab in roxterm
Dec 03 20:29:05 <l7> when the system rebooted
Dec 03 20:29:17 <woglinde> l7 could be wlan driver
Dec 03 20:29:23 <l7> hmm
Dec 03 20:29:56 <l7> all my other spontaneous reboots seem to have been related to periods of high activity too
Dec 03 20:30:37 <lcuk> l7, if you run in powersave mode perhaps you are hiting the watchdog cos it hasnt got enough time to poll everything
Dec 03 20:30:38 <l7> sounds plausible to me... i guess i could file a bug report under the wlan driver
Dec 03 20:30:55 <lcuk> does it do same in normal cpu mode
Dec 03 20:30:57 <l7> watchdog cos?
Dec 03 20:31:13 <l7> i guess i'd have to do some more tests
Dec 03 20:31:27 <l7> i think it did also crash in normal cpu mode
Dec 03 20:31:48 <l7> the trick is getting the right combination of events that will replicate the bug consistantly right?
Dec 03 20:32:02 <l7> also, something else weird happened
Dec 03 20:32:20 <l7> i was running from an SD card
Dec 03 20:32:41 <l7> but it rebooted into flash when i didn't hit the menu key in time
Dec 03 20:33:12 <l7> but the boot sequence got stuck in the middle of booting from flash and the machine shut down
Dec 03 20:33:50 <l7> booting from sd worked fine afterwards, but it's an interesting bug that i haven't seen before
Dec 03 20:37:38 <l7> hmm, i tried downloading a video from links, opening a tab in roxterm and launching mplayer
Dec 03 20:37:41 <l7> no crash this time
Dec 03 20:38:07 <l7> i think it tends to crash more if there's some uptime on the system
Dec 03 20:38:54 <l7> maybe some kind of combination of memory lost from memory leaks or whatever contributes to instability
Dec 03 20:44:30 <lardman> yay! Australia are beating the Ba-bas :)
Dec 03 20:45:10 <qwerty12_N800> Go on you Aussies! :)
Dec 03 20:46:15 <lardman> ~curse Sky for having the rights to lots of rugby matches
Dec 03 20:46:16 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Sky for having the rights to lots of rugby matches !
Dec 03 20:46:52 <qwerty12_N800> No Sky Sports for you either? :(
Dec 03 20:47:03 <lardman> X-Fade: what's wrong with you?
Dec 03 20:47:13 <l7> hmm  osso_startup_greeting is a neat command to play with
Dec 03 20:47:15 <lardman> qwerty12_N800: no chance, credit crunch an all ;)
Dec 03 20:47:24 <l7> maybe handy if you're testing startup themes
Dec 03 20:47:36 <qwerty12_N800> lardman, hah
Dec 03 20:47:46 <lardman> qwerty12_N800: but mainly as I'd prefer to do stuff rather than have to sit in front of TV to get my money's worth
Dec 03 20:47:58 <X-Fade> lardman: Yeah, some virus or whatever. Been in bed for 2 days now.
Dec 03 20:48:01 <qwerty12_N800> lardman, bittorrent is my sky box office :)
Dec 03 20:48:13 <lardman> X-Fade: oh, sorry to hear that, get well soon
Dec 03 20:48:36 <lardman> qwerty12_N800: yeah, I'll be looking out on emule for that rugby match in another hour or so
Dec 03 20:49:04 <X-Fade> lardman: I'll survive ;)
Dec 03 20:49:18 <qwerty12_N800> lardman, hehe, the queues on ed2k put me off... #4210...
Dec 03 20:49:54 <qwerty12_N800> + I miss Razorback (the original) :(
Dec 03 20:51:22 <lardman> I want to watch 24, DVD seems pretty dear still
Dec 03 20:51:30 * lardman has never seen any of it
Dec 03 20:55:46 <derf> It's highlarious.
Dec 03 20:56:24 <lardman> not worth watching then?
Dec 03 20:56:34 <derf> It's worth watching if you like comedies.
Dec 03 20:56:42 <lardman> People do seem to talk about it a fair bit still, I should watch an hour or two at least
Dec 03 20:57:01 <lardman> the 1st and last probably :)
Dec 03 20:57:20 <derf> Nah, you'll spoil the Big Reveal.
Dec 03 21:01:56 <l7> hmm, maybe it was the wlan driver
Dec 03 21:02:20 <l7> i tried opening a tab and opening mplayer while links was downloading a video file
Dec 03 21:03:01 <l7> and then the desktop crashed in a funny way, such that applications still worked, but could not be accessed after they were minimized
Dec 03 21:03:13 <l7> desktop still shows all your applets, but you can't load anything
Dec 03 21:03:20 <l7> and you can't ssh in either
Dec 03 21:03:40 <RST38h> I bet something is taking all the CPU
Dec 03 21:03:51 <l7> trying to ping the tablet results in "Host is down"
Dec 03 21:04:10 <l7> well maybe... but i was still able to use roxterm
Dec 03 21:04:24 <l7> i couldn't get back to it after minimizing it though
Dec 03 21:04:49 <l7> i wonder if it's a problem with roxterm or links
Dec 03 21:05:06 <l7> i have noticed that downloading large files seems to tie up the processor
Dec 03 21:05:57 <l7> wget may leave your system slightly more usable while downloading
Dec 03 21:17:59 <Stskeeps> ooh. found out how to make python-jaiku send to a channel.
Dec 03 21:19:35 <Proteous> lookout
Dec 03 21:22:25 <cowbellemoo> Would this be the appropriate place to ask a support question or is it strictly a dev channel?
Dec 03 21:25:40 <Stskeeps> cowbellemoo: .. it ranges
Dec 03 21:26:07 <cowbellemoo> : /
Dec 03 21:26:19 <Stskeeps> so just ask, if you get ignored, then noone either has an answer or wants to answer :)
Dec 03 21:26:33 <cowbellemoo> mmmkay.
Dec 03 21:27:04 <l7>  hmm, anyone know of a good database of flash media speeds?
Dec 03 21:27:18 <l7> this nice little USB stick is getting 8-9MB/s
Dec 03 21:27:33 <l7> quality seems to vary drastically though
Dec 03 21:28:14 <Meiz_n810> 17: wikipedia
Dec 03 21:29:24 <l7> Meiz_n810: which page / section?
Dec 03 21:29:57 <cowbellemoo> I have MediaServ (with tablet-encode) set up to stream video.  It works -- but only half the time.  Once launching a video, I get "media file not found" errors from Media Player on my n810 even though I can see mencoder plugging along on the video file on my server. I thought it might be a filename or format glitch, but that doesn't seem to be the case after testing.  Can anyone shed some light?
Dec 03 21:30:11 <l7> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#SDHC seems to have a link to hjreggel.net which is somewhat good
Dec 03 21:30:18 <l7> and a ton of other stuff that's not
Dec 03 21:31:28 <Jaffa> cowbellemoo: you could try upping the thread timeout from 30s. Alternatively, is there a pattern of filenames?
Dec 03 21:31:52 <Jaffa> Worst case, can you send me logs and stuff (andrew@bleb.org)
Dec 03 21:32:46 <cowbellemoo> Jaffa: Not that I can tell.  I can have a season of a show with uniform filenames, size, and format but have some stream and others not.
Dec 03 21:33:19 <cowbellemoo> Jaffa: would the log be in .Mediaserv?
Dec 03 21:33:23 <Jaffa> cowbellemoo: same stream intermiitently?
Dec 03 21:33:37 <Jaffa> cowbellemoo: /tmp, IIRC.
Dec 03 21:34:49 <cowbellemoo> Jaffa: Not sure.  I think only once when I've retried a stream has it gone through on 2nd attempt.  Whenever I can start a stream, the file plays fine (no interruptions)
Dec 03 21:34:58 <cowbellemoo> Jaffa: let me see if I can pull the log
Dec 03 21:35:23 <Jaffa> cowbellemoo: might have to be via mail - bed soon
Dec 03 21:38:52 <cowbellemoo> Jaffa: I'll try the timeout option and look through the log (didn't know it kept one!) on my own for now, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
Dec 03 22:00:52 <winston_> hi, does anyone have a guess when the successor to the n810 will be in stores?
Dec 03 22:01:16 <GeneralAntilles> winston_, total guesswork: Summer 2009.
Dec 03 22:02:27 <Scumgrief_> Oh Hi general - I know you from the ITT forums
Dec 03 22:03:07 <GeneralAntilles> I'm everywhere. :P
Dec 03 22:03:32 <Scumgrief_> I really don't think there is a device better suited for me than the n810, for its like a low power linux pocket machine
Dec 03 22:03:44 <Scumgrief_> as it seems you are everywhere =P
Dec 03 22:04:56 <`0660> i don't think he ever sleeps
Dec 03 22:05:13 <Scumgrief_> would you recommend a go everywhere machine the size of the n810 or smaller that is linux based other than the n810?
Dec 03 22:05:19 <GeneralAntilles> `0660, not this evening, anyway. <_<
Dec 03 22:05:20 <Scumgrief_> yeah, he seems to not sleep
Dec 03 22:06:20 * GeneralAntilles updates wiki pages and triages some bugs.
Dec 03 22:06:34 <`0660> Scumgrief_, i think it depends
Dec 03 22:06:56 <`0660> the smaller the device is, the more portable it is. in the other hand, the smalle the device is, the more limited it is
Dec 03 22:07:05 <Scumgrief_> like the size of the n810
Dec 03 22:07:11 <Scumgrief_> i mean pocktable
Dec 03 22:07:27 <`0660> it's big compared to mobile phone, and small compared to a netbook
Dec 03 22:07:32 <`0660> very small
Dec 03 22:08:17 <Scumgrief_> yeah, I did have an EEE PC but that was too limiting, i couldn't run it off batt very long, nor could I use it on the go
Dec 03 22:08:31 <Scumgrief_> a netbook i will get when I get a job lol
Dec 03 22:12:15 <`0660> i think mobile phone, internet tablet, netbook, and desktop all have their own slot to fill
Dec 03 22:12:56 <Scumgrief_> yeah, i agree.
Dec 03 22:31:36 <Proteous> I want a mobile phone + internet tablet device combo that doesn't suck
Dec 03 22:32:04 <Proteous> er, combo device, not device combo
Dec 03 22:32:14 <qwerty12_N800> 3310 + 770 = the shit
Dec 03 22:34:40 <`0660> Proteous, who knows, n900 might be able to make calls :)
Dec 03 22:35:53 <Proteous> I'm sorta lusting after the new n97
Dec 03 22:36:05 <GeneralAntilles> VoIP, surely.
Dec 03 22:36:06 <Proteous> could be cool or could suck
Dec 03 22:36:10 <GeneralAntilles> But definitely not cellular voice.
Dec 03 22:36:27 <Proteous> not sure if it will ever make it to the states though...
Dec 03 22:36:33 <`0660> i guess voip might actually work ok
Dec 03 22:36:38 <Proteous> heh
Dec 03 22:36:53 <`0660> because of the 3g stack...
Dec 03 22:37:14 <qwerty12_N800> Proteous, probably would on t-mobile or at&t
Dec 03 22:37:19 <Proteous> right now I pair up my n810 with my pantech c150 which works well but it's a lot to carry around
Dec 03 22:39:30 <disco_stu> wow the n97 i sooo cool
Dec 03 22:39:50 <Proteous> I like that the screen is at least somewhat high rez
Dec 03 22:40:25 <Proteous> need to be able to fit more then 3 lines of an ssh session on there for it to be a usefull device to me :)
Dec 03 22:40:31 <Stskeeps> what century are you in that 640x350(sp) is high res? :P
Dec 03 22:40:44 <Proteous> for a phone it's not bad
Dec 03 22:41:01 <Proteous> it's not 800x480 like my n810 but that's okay, it's a narrower device
Dec 03 22:41:17 <disco_stu> well in real use it doesn perform like in the nokia demo
Dec 03 22:41:40 <Proteous> there are some hands on videos
Dec 03 22:41:56 <disco_stu> yeah, i just saw them
Dec 03 22:43:36 <disco_stu> the ui is slow
Dec 03 22:43:42 <disco_stu> and buggy
Dec 03 22:44:45 <`0660> i thought they still ahd 6 months to fix bugs?
Dec 03 22:44:47 <`0660> had
Dec 03 22:44:50 <Proteous> yeah
Dec 03 22:44:52 <derf> disco_stu: You've just described every hand-held deivce ever.
Dec 03 22:44:56 <Stskeeps> oh, that's an interesting hinge
Dec 03 22:45:10 <disco_stu> derf: iphone is the opposite
Dec 03 22:45:22 <disco_stu> and it is a handheld device
Dec 03 22:45:37 <Proteous> 640x350 is way better then the iphone 480x320 iphone screen
Dec 03 22:45:56 <Proteous> er, -iphone#2
Dec 03 22:47:03 <solca> ping Stskeeps
Dec 03 22:47:16 <Stskeeps> pong solca?
Dec 03 22:47:53 <solca> Stskeeps: Hi, I have an idea about a new kind of installer and I would like to know what do you  think about it
Dec 03 22:48:10 <solca> and if it could be useful for your reconstructed stuff
Dec 03 22:48:20 <Stskeeps> *nod* i'm all ears
Dec 03 22:49:11 <solca> the thing is that I port the Android OS to my N810 using the omap head tree (2.6.28-rc6)
Dec 03 22:49:19 <solca> and I even have WiFi working
Dec 03 22:49:34 <woglinde> solca what are you porting kernel only?
Dec 03 22:49:37 <solca> but everything works with this kernel
Dec 03 22:49:53 <solca> woglinde: userspace too
Dec 03 22:49:54 <Stskeeps> solca: oh, you're with those nth.. something people?
Dec 03 22:50:03 <solca> Stskeeps: no
Dec 03 22:50:06 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 03 22:50:10 * GeneralAntilles is now hungry.
Dec 03 22:50:11 <solca> I did it myself not knowing about them
Dec 03 22:50:23 <Stskeeps> hehe, quite an effort then
Dec 03 22:50:28 <solca> I read today in the forum that they did something similar
Dec 03 22:50:33 <solca> but with 2.6.25
Dec 03 22:50:42 <woglinde> hm dont know how well fb will work on the nxx
Dec 03 22:51:09 <solca> I try that way but was painful so I use the 2.6.27 android kernel branch and port it to 2.6.28 so Wifi works
Dec 03 22:51:20 <l7> hmm
Dec 03 22:51:26 <solca> but I was wondering about a new kind of installer
Dec 03 22:51:40 <solca> this is my idea, please correct me or comment about it:
Dec 03 22:51:41 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: do you know if it is possible to modify behaviour of d-pad within the browser
Dec 03 22:51:59 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, yes, there's a bug with a .deb that'll do it for you even.
Dec 03 22:52:08 <derf> disco_stu: A quick Google suggests that your opinion of the iPhone is not unanimous: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/07/18/iphone_3g_and_2_0_affected_by_buggy_software_sensors_wireless.html
Dec 03 22:52:28 <solca> minimal kernel and minimal userspace based on my omap port for openwrt
Dec 03 22:52:43 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2423
Dec 03 22:52:47 <solca> this kernel + userspace needs to fit in the 2MB kernel partition
Dec 03 22:52:56 <GeneralAntilles> and with that, I am officially Maemoed-out for the day. . . .
Dec 03 22:53:02 <solca> this kernel would be kexec capable
Dec 03 22:53:28 <solca> and with a UI based on... let me find it...
Dec 03 22:53:49 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: thanks Ryan
Dec 03 22:53:50 <woglinde> solca hm klibc
Dec 03 22:54:07 <solca> openwrt used uclibc
Dec 03 22:54:37 <woglinde> kexec image in oe is klibc based
Dec 03 22:55:06 <Stskeeps> solca: so basically a glorified bootloader i guess?
Dec 03 22:55:36 <Stskeeps> (have you had kexec work, btw?)
Dec 03 22:55:39 <solca> woglinde: kexec is a kernel feature + userspace that talks to the kernel via /proc
Dec 03 22:55:55 <woglinde> solca yes
Dec 03 22:55:56 * solca can't find the UI url
Dec 03 22:56:36 <woglinde> the goal of the kexec image is that you can choose your kernel from either internal flash or sd card or whatever devices you have
Dec 03 22:56:38 <solca> the thing is that this UI is used for a bootselector in the playstation 3 with openwrt for PS3
Dec 03 22:56:45 <solca> woglinde: exactly!
Dec 03 22:56:55 <woglinde> yepp
Dec 03 22:56:55 <solca> and this UI is very nice
Dec 03 22:57:11 <solca> even it detects bootable images from usb when connected
Dec 03 22:57:16 <solca> and reacts apropriately
Dec 03 22:57:30 <solca> so I was thinking about doing this for my android port
Dec 03 22:57:42 <solca> and can be useful for the maemo reconstructed and deblet too
Dec 03 22:58:16 <Stskeeps> this something you could see being multi-platform, too?
Dec 03 22:58:16 <solca> so one can choose which partition boot
Dec 03 22:58:26 <woglinde> jeep sounds nice
Dec 03 22:58:33 <woglinde> and do not touches the bootloader
Dec 03 22:58:36 <solca> in this way one could boot to the normal maemo, or to deblet or whatever
Dec 03 22:58:45 <Stskeeps> solca: http://ozlabs.org/~jk/projects/petitboot/ ?
Dec 03 22:58:47 <solca> it just touch the kernel particion
Dec 03 22:58:59 <solca> exactly
Dec 03 22:59:05 <solca> but modified for the N810
Dec 03 22:59:17 <woglinde> shouldnt be this hard
Dec 03 22:59:30 <Stskeeps> solca: can i ask again, have you had kexec working on n810?
Dec 03 22:59:55 <solca> I have it my running kernel but I didnt try it
Dec 03 23:00:11 <solca> is there something I should know about it?
Dec 03 23:00:24 <Stskeeps> alright, guess it's worth looking into, - i've heard of some problems getting it to work but it might have changed in newer kernels
Dec 03 23:01:11 <solca> the "bootselector" could be any kernel as long as it can read from storage and boot the other kernels
Dec 03 23:01:39 <solca> but now that you mention in I'll take a look
Dec 03 23:01:53 <solca> so what do you guys think about this plan?
Dec 03 23:02:38 <solca> the hard part is fit everything in 2MB
Dec 03 23:03:17 <woglinde> solca not really
Dec 03 23:03:19 <Stskeeps> well. in my new, if we have to do it "right", it shouldn't be limited to n8x0 platforms. as in, it should be possible to port it to x86, other armel devices etc
Dec 03 23:03:27 <woglinde> using klibc or dietlibc it should work
Dec 03 23:03:34 <Stskeeps> new=view
Dec 03 23:03:37 <woglinde> with ugly curses interface
Dec 03 23:04:24 <woglinde> Stskeeps in openembedded some guys working on it with klibc for the zaurii
Dec 03 23:04:25 <Stskeeps> solca: and there should be elements of rescue menu stuff in it
Dec 03 23:04:44 <solca> Stskeeps: like the deblet rescue menu?
Dec 03 23:05:13 * solca must say that he loves the deblet rescue menu
Dec 03 23:05:45 <solca> it help me a lot when I was figuring out how all the stuff was structured
Dec 03 23:05:46 <Stskeeps> kinda like that, but in terms of restoring images from mmc, / exposing internal flash to USB, etc
Dec 03 23:05:59 <Stskeeps> maybe boot options for OS'es
Dec 03 23:06:04 <woglinde> if there is place
Dec 03 23:06:08 <Stskeeps> yeah :P
Dec 03 23:06:12 <woglinde> the image should contain ubifs stuff
Dec 03 23:06:21 <woglinde> that would be nice
Dec 03 23:06:22 <solca> Stskeeps: the nice thing is that at least for me wifi works reliably with the new driver
Dec 03 23:06:47 <woglinde> solca is wpa_suplicant working now?
Dec 03 23:06:48 <solca> woglinde: I was using it (ubifs) but its very hard to make a partition image
Dec 03 23:06:53 <solca> woglinde: yes
Dec 03 23:06:57 <woglinde> ah cool
Dec 03 23:07:19 <Stskeeps> solca: you did look into Mer i presume?
Dec 03 23:07:30 <solca> yes I have a very early tar installed
Dec 03 23:07:31 <woglinde> so you could set all the cool stuffup with guessnet if/up down and wpa_suplicant
Dec 03 23:08:30 <solca> Stskeeps: I have it installed but I lost a month with android
Dec 03 23:08:53 <solca> Stskeeps: but it is very nice and I think it could benefit from a bootselector and installer like this
Dec 03 23:08:54 <Stskeeps> solca: alright - well, if you would like to, try to make a writeup for a "boot selector"/rescue/device behaviour thing in http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#Appendixes , and how you would like to see a distribution-agnostic "init phase"
Dec 03 23:09:06 <Stskeeps> just make a section calling it "Draft"
Dec 03 23:09:29 <woglinde> solca hm why is it so hard with ubifs?
Dec 03 23:09:36 <Stskeeps> there's a draft on system architecture already, you may draw some ideas from there
Dec 03 23:10:18 <solca> Stskeeps: I write too a maemo initilizer script which runs all the proprietary stuff too
Dec 03 23:10:29 <woglinde> hahah
Dec 03 23:10:30 <woglinde> UBIFS is a new flash file system developed by Nokia engineers
Dec 03 23:10:43 <woglinde> so fremantle must have ubifs on internal flash
Dec 03 23:10:43 <Stskeeps> heh, didn't know that
Dec 03 23:10:53 <woglinde> otherwise
Dec 03 23:11:10 <solca> woglinde: I didnt try to hard to make it work but there is the ubifs and another layer to make it work
Dec 03 23:11:14 <Stskeeps> woglinde: do consider they also have a openwrt-home gateway thing
Dec 03 23:12:14 <woglinde> reading the ubifs site right now
Dec 03 23:12:41 <Stskeeps> solca: and if you have some ideas on how vendors could support multiple distributions and aiding this part, it's also interesting
Dec 03 23:13:08 <Stskeeps> it is kinda nice to show a device you can show booting android if you want, mer/hildon if you want, ubuntu mobile, .. windows 3.11
Dec 03 23:13:11 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 23:14:15 <solca> Stskeeps: exactly that would be nice
Dec 03 23:14:37 <solca> here it is the proprietary laucher I wrote for android
Dec 03 23:14:38 <Stskeeps> Mer/Reconstructured is not only for the distribution, but also making a foundation for tablet like devices
Dec 03 23:14:45 <solca> but could be useful for other things
Dec 03 23:14:50 <solca> http://guug.org/nitboot.txt
Dec 03 23:15:05 <solca> its basic now but can be improved
Dec 03 23:15:27 <Stskeeps> yeah, looks similar to what initfs does
Dec 03 23:15:42 <solca> the idea is to not boot to initfs
Dec 03 23:15:56 <Stskeeps> yeah, i know, it's more of an initrd like system
Dec 03 23:16:07 <Stskeeps> solca: you're missing out on dyntick stuff btw
Dec 03 23:16:15 <Stskeeps> in that script
Dec 03 23:16:41 <solca> Stskeeps: yea, because android do it in it's init part
Dec 03 23:16:50 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 03 23:16:55 <solca> but can be added to and not do it in android
Dec 03 23:17:39 <solca> so I was thinking about using this "boot selector" as installer too
Dec 03 23:17:47 <Stskeeps> you have jaiku per chance? (if not, msg me your e-mail and you'll get an invite.), that way you can track the development of Mer, which may have implications for you too
Dec 03 23:18:04 <Stskeeps> for imaging purposes or?
Dec 03 23:18:33 <solca> my idea was embedd a minimal initramfs with the kernel and flash it to the "kernel" partition
Dec 03 23:18:58 <solca> and this initramfs ideally use the petitboot and could install deblet, android maemo-recontructed etc
Dec 03 23:19:10 <solca> the limiting part is the 2MB in the partition
Dec 03 23:19:28 <woglinde> solca 2mb is lot of space
Dec 03 23:19:30 <solca> Stskeeps: my email is solca@guug.org
Dec 03 23:19:58 <Stskeeps> invited
Dec 03 23:19:58 <solca> woglinde: depends: my playstation3 have 8MB so petitboot have a lot of space
Dec 03 23:20:02 <solca> Stskeeps: thank you
Dec 03 23:20:27 <solca> woglinde: but my WRT54GL have just 4MB and I have a WRT54G which just have 2MB
Dec 03 23:20:30 <Stskeeps> solca: well. noone says we can't use a initfs in some generic fashion, even if it would switch between kernels
Dec 03 23:21:16 <solca> Stskeeps: for having more space so you say?
Dec 03 23:21:20 <Stskeeps> yeah
Dec 03 23:21:32 <solca> Stskeeps: but where?
Dec 03 23:21:53 <solca> I dont want to touch initfs and rootfs
Dec 03 23:22:19 <Stskeeps> well. i guess i have the luxury of being able to ignore old time stuff
Dec 03 23:22:21 <solca> and one bootselector installer for rule them all
Dec 03 23:22:46 <solca> all the projects (deblet,android,maemor)
Dec 03 23:23:03 <solca> Stskeeps: well normal people want to swithc between oses
Dec 03 23:23:08 <Stskeeps> yeah, obviously
Dec 03 23:23:38 <Stskeeps> so, if i looked at it cynically, having a kexec capable kernel, a bootmenu initfs that could do kexec, would do similar things?
Dec 03 23:24:39 <solca> Stskeeps: I presume
Dec 03 23:25:02 <solca> my idea was not touch initfs and rootfs because there already is the proprietary software
Dec 03 23:25:31 <solca> so with the nitboot script I could launch that software without distributing it
Dec 03 23:25:38 <Stskeeps> *nod*
Dec 03 23:25:39 <solca> and not violationg some EULA
Dec 03 23:25:50 <Stskeeps> well, things might change a bit eventually regarding remixing and "variants"
Dec 03 23:26:20 <solca> Stskeeps: but ideally if I could rewrite initfs that would be owesome
Dec 03 23:26:28 <Stskeeps> i'm mostly talking from point of view that we can break down any walls we want, as we are building the "new" platfor
Dec 03 23:26:32 <Stskeeps> m
Dec 03 23:27:35 <solca> do you redistribute proprietary stuff with deblet?
Dec 03 23:27:48 <Stskeeps> nop
Dec 03 23:28:37 <Stskeeps> we do two tricks: 1) we don't distribute any images of installed deblet 2) deblet is entirely bootstrapped and everything on tablet 3) we retrieve some blobs in same manner as a SSU would
Dec 03 23:28:46 <solca> good, but the new wifi driver needs a proprietary tool that is not even distributed with diablo right now
Dec 03 23:28:48 <Stskeeps> (by apt. and authenticating our model number)
Dec 03 23:28:55 <Stskeeps> oh, i have a creative script for that..
Dec 03 23:28:55 <Stskeeps> sc
Dec 03 23:29:05 <solca> Stskeeps: excellent
Dec 03 23:29:22 <Stskeeps> http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/non-free/stlc45xx-cal/debian/postinst
Dec 03 23:30:18 <solca> Stskeeps: hmm thats the kind of stuff that I don't like but I think it is necessary
Dec 03 23:30:22 <Stskeeps> yeah
Dec 03 23:30:22 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 23:30:30 <Stskeeps> (don't edit this so the user invisibly answers yes, it is better to keep nokia happy in terms of binary blobs.)
Dec 03 23:31:13 <Scumgrief_> wifi driver on maemo for n810 is propietary?
Dec 03 23:31:38 <solca> Stskeeps: congrats, clever script I must say
Dec 03 23:31:49 <solca> Stskeeps: can I use it in the Android port?
Dec 03 23:32:05 <derf> Scumgrief_: Do you know of a wifi driver that _doesn't_ contain a binary blob?
Dec 03 23:32:14 <Stskeeps> solca: go ahead, my only "demand"/wish is that you ask the user to agree to this license
Dec 03 23:32:20 <Scumgrief_> derf:  I wish
Dec 03 23:32:22 <woglinde> derf in whole or for maemo?
Dec 03 23:32:31 <derf> woglinde: Yes.
Dec 03 23:32:39 <woglinde> ???
Dec 03 23:32:56 <woglinde> madwifi and athereos are now without bin blob
Dec 03 23:33:02 <derf> Really?
Dec 03 23:33:12 <Scumgrief_> i could say that lol
Dec 03 23:33:19 <derf> (also, why are those two separate things?)
Dec 03 23:33:43 <Scumgrief_> derf:  different authors i think..
Dec 03 23:33:48 <woglinde> derf history
Dec 03 23:33:53 <woglinde> madwifi was the frist
Dec 03 23:33:54 <derf> I had an atheros card 2~3 years ago... it worked for about 15 minutes, and then never again.
Dec 03 23:34:10 <woglinde> then atheros vendor hires a driver hacker
Dec 03 23:34:10 <solca> Stskeeps: so does deblet or maemo-r have a special req for the kernel?
Dec 03 23:34:15 <derf> I tried getting into the driver to figure out why, but gave up.
Dec 03 23:34:23 <woglinde> and now the open up the bin blob too
Dec 03 23:34:27 <Stskeeps> solca: nada right now
Dec 03 23:34:48 <Stskeeps> solca: my focus is on Mer these days. deblet is hard to make sane wrt power saving
Dec 03 23:34:54 <derf> Now I just make sure not to buy machines with Atheros cards.
Dec 03 23:35:37 <solca> Stskeeps: yea, I would like to help a lot with mer but I'm busy with android but
Dec 03 23:35:48 <solca> we can benefit for an improved installer/bootselector
Dec 03 23:36:03 <Stskeeps> solca: yeah.. as said before, initial device initialization is a field we can cooperate on
Dec 03 23:36:17 <Stskeeps> we don't want reboot loops in either mer or android, obviously :P
Dec 03 23:36:35 <solca> yea :)
Dec 03 23:37:18 <solca> Stskeeps: ok so I'll work on this stuff and will ping you when I have something
Dec 03 23:37:21 <Stskeeps> also, mer's focus is not just on n8x0/770/n900, we look towards how it's possible to make maemo more of a generic platform
Dec 03 23:37:23 <solca> hopefully this weekend
Dec 03 23:37:26 <Stskeeps> so it's worth thinking that into
Dec 03 23:37:36 <Stskeeps> alright. #reconstructedPOC on jaiku is what we do
Dec 03 23:38:23 <solca> Stskeeps: excellent, I will port petitboot and try kexecing a kernel and when that works
Dec 03 23:38:29 <Stskeeps> *nod*
Dec 03 23:38:40 <solca> I'll ping you so we can cooperate in the installing/initiliazing stuff
Dec 03 23:38:44 * Stskeeps ponders how maemo would be like on a PS3..
Dec 03 23:38:45 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 03 23:39:00 <solca> Stskeeps: that would be very insteresting!
Dec 03 23:39:21 <GeneralAntilles> Crazy fast?
Dec 03 23:39:38 <Stskeeps> cell-accelerated? :P
Dec 03 23:40:05 <solca> Stskeeps: well if something can benefit from vector processing, sure
Dec 03 23:40:21 <lcuk> if maemo was on a cell processor we would still not have access to most of the cores
Dec 03 23:40:32 <solca> Stskeeps: but in general maemo on the ps3 would be very nice
Dec 03 23:40:53 <lcuk> solca, wouldnt it get a bit tiring carrying around a ps3 and a screen?
Dec 03 23:41:10 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, home theater. . . .
Dec 03 23:41:19 <solca> lcuk: why? the linux port uses all cores except one
Dec 03 23:41:33 <solca> lcuk: :) yea that would be tiring...
Dec 03 23:41:50 <lcuk> solca, we cannot use all cores on the current processor, what makes you tihnk the cell will be any different :P
Dec 03 23:42:21 <solca> lcuk: define what you mean about current processor
Dec 03 23:43:12 <lcuk> omap2420
Dec 03 23:43:16 <lcuk> ofc..
Dec 03 23:43:17 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, stop being silly. <_<
Dec 03 23:43:27 <Stskeeps> alright, i'm off to bed
Dec 03 23:43:34 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i still want to see maemo on a wii.. :P
Dec 03 23:43:44 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, the two things aren't even vaguely analogous.
Dec 03 23:43:59 <solca> Stskeeps: then we could port maemo-r to the iphone when the kernel matures a bit too ;)
Dec 03 23:44:37 * lcuk reaffirms his sarcasm tag :P:P:P ^
Dec 03 23:44:55 <GeneralAntilles> Text fails at sarcasm. :P
Dec 03 23:45:02 <Stskeeps> solca: for good measure we call maemo-r proof of concept mer, as it's not maemo and there's trademark issues :)
Dec 03 23:45:06 <Stskeeps> bbl
Dec 03 23:45:30 <solca> oh
Dec 04 00:07:30 <lopz> johnx, I could not send commands from another application to control the player, Kaguya, mediaplayer, I could do to help?
Dec 04 00:28:54 <practisevoodoo> whats the easiest way to wipe an n810 back to factory state?
Dec 04 00:29:49 <Proteous> reflash?
Dec 04 00:30:09 <practisevoodoo> urg
Dec 04 00:32:21 <practisevoodoo> thanks
Dec 04 00:47:39 <Scumgrief_> I wish I had a n810 =-[
Dec 04 01:26:36 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: i have a problem
Dec 04 01:26:42 <disco_stu> need help
Dec 04 01:26:53 * GeneralAntilles has many problems.
Dec 04 01:26:59 <disco_stu> lol
Dec 04 01:27:02 <GeneralAntilles> First and foremost, it's fscking cold in here. . . . :shiver:
Dec 04 01:27:35 <disco_stu> well.. my problem is that after booting web browser doesnt work
Dec 04 01:27:48 <GeneralAntilles> Updating... ?
Dec 04 01:27:53 <disco_stu> yeah
Dec 04 01:28:07 <disco_stu> i have to manually restart the deamon
Dec 04 01:28:15 <GeneralAntilles> Every reboot?
Dec 04 01:28:17 <GeneralAntilles> Dunno
Dec 04 01:28:20 <GeneralAntilles> Don't reboot? :P
Dec 04 01:28:55 <l7> how do you fix memory leaks without rebooting?
Dec 04 01:29:03 <GeneralAntilles> What memory leaks?
Dec 04 01:29:12 <l7> not sure which program it was
Dec 04 01:29:13 <disco_stu> and the .deb for scrolling with d-pad didnt work
Dec 04 01:29:42 <l7> i managed to bring the system down to the point where no applications could be open even though i had shut everything down
Dec 04 01:29:44 <disco_stu> l7: after closing the program with the leaks, the SO should be able to automatically recover memory
Dec 04 01:30:01 <l7> yeah, i'd pretty much closed everything
Dec 04 01:30:15 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: any help ?
Dec 04 01:30:15 <l7> maybe it was one of the applets
Dec 04 01:30:25 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, dunno.
Dec 04 01:30:36 <disco_stu> damn
Dec 04 01:31:05 <disco_stu> why does it says updating.. ?
Dec 04 01:31:22 <disco_stu> shit without the browser i'm lost
Dec 04 01:32:03 <lcuk> disco_stu, if qwerty were here he would tell you how to fix it
Dec 04 01:32:12 <lcuk> hold on ill see if i can dig out what he said
Dec 04 01:32:52 <disco_stu> ok
Dec 04 01:35:41 <lcuk> disco_stu, you already know the answer lol
Dec 04 01:35:52 <disco_stu> restarting ?
Dec 04 01:35:57 <disco_stu> or flashin ?
Dec 04 01:36:04 <lcuk> my google brought me back to mariuses log of 2 minutes ago :P restart the daemon thing
Dec 04 01:36:08 <lcuk> not the machine
Dec 04 01:36:16 <disco_stu> yeah, what i did
Dec 04 01:36:21 <disco_stu> but it is stupid
Dec 04 01:36:27 <disco_stu> i cant restart it all the time
Dec 04 01:36:35 <lcuk> qwerty12	lcuk, if it's still not coming, as root: /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon force-reload
Dec 04 01:37:18 <disco_stu> damn
Dec 04 01:37:29 <disco_stu> im so disappointed
Dec 04 01:38:23 <lcuk> im goin back to bed anyway, gnite
Dec 04 01:38:29 <disco_stu> thanks anyway
Dec 04 01:42:07 <disco_stu> dammit stupid browser
Dec 04 01:52:47 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: i fixed it
Dec 04 01:53:06 <disco_stu> if someone has this problem i can help out :)
Dec 04 01:56:12 <GeneralAntilles> Was it from that dpad deb?
Dec 04 02:07:11 <disco_stu> and it has to be at s99
Dec 04 02:08:21 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: did you read me ?
Dec 04 02:08:44 <GeneralAntilles> I got "[9:07pm] <disco_stu> and it has to be at s99"
Dec 04 02:08:57 <GeneralAntilles> Did you disable browserd at some point?
Dec 04 02:09:03 <GeneralAntilles> Perhaps with the services control panel applet?
Dec 04 02:09:06 <disco_stu> i killed it once
Dec 04 02:09:16 <GeneralAntilles> How?
Dec 04 02:09:25 <disco_stu> killall -9
Dec 04 02:09:33 <disco_stu> since then it stopped working
Dec 04 02:09:39 <GeneralAntilles> Huh
Dec 04 02:09:47 <disco_stu> i had to move it from s20 to s99
Dec 04 02:09:47 <disco_stu> now works fine
Dec 04 02:14:06 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: the .deb didnt work
Dec 04 02:14:14 <disco_stu> i'll try that manually
Dec 04 02:28:13 <disco_stu> didnt work manually either
Dec 04 02:56:13 <zakkm> anyone here doesnt mind helping me install deblet on my n800?
Dec 04 02:58:10 <zakkm> If you are cloning or booting other OS'es, you'll need to make such .item files
Dec 04 02:58:12 <zakkm> how would i do that?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 04 02:59:57 2008