**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 28 02:59:57 2008 Dec 28 04:21:17 anyone using their tablet with a2dp bluetooth? Dec 28 04:31:07 hmm, i may well be able to fit that webkit thing, seems libicu didnt take up as much room as first expected... Dec 28 04:47:15 the speed diff between webkit and microb makes me wonder... Dec 28 05:05:58 t_s_o, MicroB is old Dec 28 05:06:05 js performance is shit Dec 28 05:06:27 Reevaluate after it's updated to a recent FF Dec 28 05:06:42 if that ever happens on my N800 :P Dec 28 05:07:34 will MicroB ever be updated to FF3? Dec 28 05:07:37 That'll be the easy port. :) Dec 28 05:07:46 gentooer, it is FF3. Dec 28 05:08:12 its just based of some alpha, iirc... Dec 28 05:08:17 It's just FF3a1 Dec 28 05:08:22 oh yeah those were slow Dec 28 05:11:27 Who wants to bet we'll never see the lists again? Dec 28 05:13:43 XD Dec 28 05:13:51 they should update it Dec 28 05:36:41 lists? Dec 28 05:37:18 Mailing lists are borked. Dec 28 05:41:15 ah, had not noticed Dec 28 05:43:04 do any of you use Fennec Alpha 2? Dec 28 06:01:19 i think i've finished the script Dec 28 06:07:07 jakemaheu: heard of the new release of nitdroid coming out Dec 28 06:07:27 same herw Dec 28 06:07:36 s/herw/here/ Dec 28 06:07:36 jakemaheu meant: same here Dec 28 06:07:52 looks so nice ;p Dec 28 06:08:00 the install should stay the same, hopefully Dec 28 06:08:06 going to have a bootloader :P Dec 28 06:08:10 for maemo and nitdroid Dec 28 06:12:42 yay Dec 28 06:12:48 i hope Dec 28 06:13:10 i've spent like a week writing the script Dec 28 06:28:14 zakkm, hi Dec 28 06:28:25 heyyy Dec 28 06:28:40 looking to buy a bluetooth keyboard ;p Dec 28 06:28:43 see if i can find a cheap one ;p Dec 28 06:29:52 i use a wireless one, but it is not very portable Dec 28 06:31:16 i've seen those rubber kb that van be folded.. looks good Dec 28 06:32:12 s/van/can/g Dec 28 06:32:13 disco_stu meant: i've seen those rubber kb that can be folded.. looks good Dec 28 06:33:02 loggitech dinovo is nice, but very expensive.. Dec 28 06:34:40 bluetooth ones can be used with cellphones wich is a plus Dec 28 06:37:21 zakkm, did you install the last ssu? Dec 28 06:37:26 nope Dec 28 06:37:29 should i of? Dec 28 06:37:41 why u didnt? Dec 28 06:37:42 dont own a cellphone Dec 28 06:38:55 everybody owns a cellphone these days, you are a lucky one who doesnt get disturbed Dec 28 07:35:12 Morning, all Dec 28 07:49:33 Has anyone thought to try TibiaME on the n810 with debian installed? It is java isn't it? Dec 28 07:49:59 * RST38h moos Dec 28 07:50:07 it is not java Dec 28 07:50:24 native S60 app, very slow too Dec 28 07:53:49 Ok thanks for the info.... Dec 28 09:30:34 morn Dec 28 09:32:04 hi Stskeeps Dec 28 09:35:56 trying to make a sane way to do "first boot" scripts, heh Dec 28 09:36:32 thinking /etc/firstboot.d or something Dec 28 09:36:41 and -one- initscript in runlevel S Dec 28 09:48:51 sane / not sane? :> Dec 28 09:59:08 hmm, does anyone have a modified startpage with a wikipedia search box below the google one? Dec 28 10:38:15 morning lcuk Dec 28 10:39:51 urgleburgle Dec 28 10:40:50 * lcuk hates sunday mornings Dec 28 10:41:58 mm Dec 28 10:42:14 * Stskeeps is waiting for parents in law to come back and for them to leave for his gf's brother Dec 28 10:43:38 Stskeeps, are they on a tour Dec 28 10:44:22 lcuq Dec 28 10:44:48 lcuk: sortof i guess Dec 28 10:45:32 i just really want some real holiday atm :P Dec 28 10:46:26 so where would you rather be :D hot n sunny or cold n icy Dec 28 10:46:56 quick guess, anywhere private with the gf... Dec 28 10:47:09 what t_s_o said Dec 28 10:47:09 :P Dec 28 10:48:00 port xbmc! Dec 28 10:48:41 need ogl Dec 28 10:49:09 oh Dec 28 10:49:25 Just buy an xbox, not like they're expensive now :P Dec 28 10:49:45 Jack said of her decision to buy a gun. "What if somebody wants to break in and take our possessions or our cans of food? A fear of the unknown is a terrible thing." Dec 28 10:49:49 i believe its the portability aspect Dec 28 10:50:09 qwerty: What if it melts down and burns the place? A fear of the unknown is a terrible thing. Dec 28 10:50:20 * RST38h grins Dec 28 10:50:38 RST38h, but that could be true of any electrical item :P Dec 28 10:51:58 qwerty: Well, XBox has a certain history... Dec 28 10:53:15 A District woman said she was so fearful when her husband brought home a new flat-screen TV that she made him chop the box into little pieces on trash day, so no passersby would be tempted into her home. Dec 28 10:53:20 Hilarious Dec 28 10:54:03 <3 fear Dec 28 10:54:03 :P Dec 28 10:54:50 Watts recently decided to do all of her holiday shopping online after she saw GameStop employees at the Pentagon City mall offering to escort customers who bought electronics to their cars. Dec 28 10:56:03 * RST38h wonders if he has to start worrying about marauders stealing his cans of food and buy a slignshot Dec 28 10:56:50 pellet gun Dec 28 10:57:09 RST38h: the economic crisis that bad in US? :P Dec 28 10:57:15 hunting rifle Dec 28 10:57:50 Sts: Reading this article, yes Dec 28 10:58:09 Sts: In reality, probably no Dec 28 10:59:01 http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/office-products/ref=pd_dp_ts_op_1 Dec 28 10:59:06 nice bestseller :P Dec 28 10:59:31 The word retards comes to mind Dec 28 11:00:11 sarah palin with a gun, heh Dec 28 11:00:45 what have you expected? a broomstick? =) Dec 28 11:01:03 yes, and cooking utils Dec 28 11:01:04 :P Dec 28 11:02:03 she would actually do good hosting a cooking TV program Dec 28 11:02:38 "here's howto boil MOOSE stew!" Dec 28 11:02:55 "How to hunt ans skin a squirrel" Dec 28 11:03:14 More of the same: http://exiledonline.com/america-home-of-the-free-land-of-the-armed/ Dec 28 11:17:47 * Stskeeps ponders how many % of the news material in danish newspapers are picked up on digg/reddit and such.. Dec 28 11:20:31 qwerty12_N800: i have a tar.gz mer image if you're bored at some point Dec 28 11:21:05 Stskeeps, possibly.. Dec 28 11:21:09 grr, still tslib problems Dec 28 11:23:30 http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.tar.gz Dec 28 11:24:15 This runs off the memory card right? May as well try it out, I've got nitdroid on the 2nd partition doing nothing Dec 28 11:24:28 yeah Dec 28 11:25:02 needs bootmenu.d support and a usual deblet curse of an .item Dec 28 11:25:16 well, or just _LINUXRC :P Dec 28 11:25:22 Sure, I've got your bootmenu in black :p Dec 28 11:25:25 true Dec 28 11:25:45 there's some hold down bug or something with the touchscreen, think johnx was looking into it Dec 28 11:26:28 I could probably live without a right click for a while Dec 28 11:28:09 and this is the usual bare image, just base system :P Dec 28 11:28:20 with screenshot tool and mer rescue menu to get console and such Dec 28 11:28:33 No wifi? :/ Dec 28 11:28:55 not yet, didn't get around to it Dec 28 11:28:57 I can do a basic usbnet connection but if it comes to bridging, I'm SOL Dec 28 11:29:11 ubuntu box? use johnx's usbnet instructions Dec 28 11:29:29 it has usb support in rescue menu so :P Dec 28 11:29:49 Ok, it doesn't assume I'm using the latest kernel by any chance? :/ Dec 28 11:29:53 and in /etc/network/interfaces Dec 28 11:30:00 it just assumes you have some kind of kernel i think Dec 28 11:30:08 it assumes you have 2.6.21 i think Dec 28 11:30:16 cos of the framebuffer modules Dec 28 11:30:17 Oh, on the computer side Dec 28 11:30:21 ah, no Dec 28 11:30:45 cool, I'm still using an old kernel because I need ndiswrapper to work & I can't be arsed to compile my own :/ Dec 28 11:30:58 http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian#Release_Notes_for_beta3 Dec 28 11:31:10 are the ones in /etc/network/interfaces i use Dec 28 11:31:18 framebuffer modules are no problem, I've got them with a 2.6.21 kernel I compiled recently Dec 28 11:31:29 k Dec 28 11:32:24 * alterego yawns Dec 28 11:32:37 Good morning folks. Dec 28 11:32:41 morning Dec 28 11:32:43 Morning Dec 28 11:32:49 moorning Dec 28 11:33:03 qwerty12: didn't add wifi yet as i didn't know how we could deal with firmware and such :P but the packages you made should make it a lot easier Dec 28 11:33:57 Heh, glad they (hopefully) plan to help :P Dec 28 11:40:11 think i'll just build tablet-wireless :P Dec 28 11:40:18 and then nm-applet should be quite easy Dec 28 11:40:27 (i hate nm but we dont have any other nice choices atm) Dec 28 11:40:43 Hopefully, it runs a lot better on the tablet than it does on my desktop... Dec 28 11:41:05 so-so Dec 28 11:41:05 :P Dec 28 11:41:07 I ended up using debian pinning so I could keep the version from hardy when I upgraded Dec 28 11:41:37 The new network manager would disconnect me in 60 seconds and make unleash a torrent of swearing upon my computer Dec 28 11:42:08 hehe Dec 28 11:53:42 wifi is probably easily possible through /etc/network/interfaces. Dec 28 11:54:02 installing tablet-wireless and wpasupplicant Dec 28 12:01:46 why on f*cking earth does network-manager-gnome depend on libgweather1? Dec 28 12:02:20 It only lets you connect if the weather is sunny (which may explain my problems as I live in London...) Dec 28 12:03:51 mm Dec 28 12:03:51 * RST38h has a better question: Why does every third Linux package appear to depend on the TeX installation? Dec 28 12:04:02 in build dependancies or dependancies? Dec 28 12:04:10 just dependancies Dec 28 12:04:46 build dependancies can be explained by stuff like texinfo or something :P Dec 28 12:04:57 (wtf came up with the abdomination 'info' is anyway?) Dec 28 12:06:06 ah. Dec 28 12:06:07 stallman. Dec 28 12:06:09 no surprises. Dec 28 12:09:12 hi! i have problems with maemo mapper on a nokia 770. is it ok to ask here or is there a specific channel for maemo mapper? Dec 28 12:10:09 well this isn't a support channel, but your answer may be answered :P else there's always internettablettalk :) Dec 28 12:10:27 wb Dec 28 12:10:33 qwerty12_N800: nokia-n8x0-firmware is a good thing for wifi too :P Dec 28 12:10:39 Thanks Stskeeps Dec 28 12:11:20 Stskeeps, heh, you need to advertise your december tasks more :P Dec 28 12:11:59 mm? Dec 28 12:12:31 No one has stepped up to do the qemu one :/ Dec 28 12:12:51 ok i'll have a try~ :-) i reflashed my nokia 770 and installed maemo mapper. now the "bluetooth" radio button in the gps settings is greyed out. is there any package i need that is not listed in the dependencies? Dec 28 12:13:11 qwerty12_N800: yeah, think things will speed up a bit more once we have a sane image to work out from Dec 28 12:13:30 * Stskeeps ponders why mer failed to find firmwar Dec 28 12:13:30 e Dec 28 12:19:04 * qwerty12_N800 <3's unofficial xchat patch for coloured nick list Dec 28 12:19:11 hehe Dec 28 12:30:11 god, this tslib bug is annoying Dec 28 12:35:50 hello, after a short visit to nitdroid i wanted to reflash the latest diablo on my n800. i started the reflash on linux, but it aborted with "write failed at xxx bytes". my n800 seems seriously bricked now (can't turn it on or off, won't react to anything). is it? Dec 28 12:38:00 when i put the charger in the nokia r&d logo keeps flashing on and off Dec 28 12:38:39 have you pulled the battery? Dec 28 12:39:59 Hello timeless long time no see :) Dec 28 12:40:16 hi Dec 28 12:40:19 happy new year or something Dec 28 12:40:27 Not quite ;) Dec 28 12:40:39 you're going to quible about <200 hours? Dec 28 12:40:52 yup. Dec 28 12:40:53 how about "have a happy new year"? Dec 28 12:41:00 That works. Dec 28 12:41:05 alright. sold Dec 28 12:41:15 how about "merry christmas" Dec 28 12:41:22 or is that also out of bounds? :) Dec 28 12:41:27 Bit late for that now ;) Dec 28 12:41:31 merry after christmas shopping? Dec 28 12:41:44 * timeless isn't christian Dec 28 12:41:53 Hah, the thought has crossed my mind .. Dec 28 12:42:42 I'm not sure what to base the new ruby-maemo site on. Whether I should build something from scratch or use a CMS/Wiki/Summit Dec 28 12:42:57 what do you need in it? Dec 28 12:43:17 i'm actually quite happy w/ http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/ Dec 28 12:43:27 Basically a list of the packages and descriptions, I'd like an area for code snippets and examples Dec 28 12:43:29 which is basically generated by a script i wrote Dec 28 12:43:46 Yeah, that looks nice. Dec 28 12:43:57 the css/layout is theirs Dec 28 12:44:02 much better than the original Dec 28 12:44:15 but the general way it fills in articles and manages them is mine :) Dec 28 12:44:15 I think I will roll my own. Dec 28 12:44:43 * timeless ponders teaching mxr about ruby Dec 28 12:45:02 Heh Dec 28 12:45:14 timeless: yes Dec 28 12:45:21 "yes"? Dec 28 12:45:25 oh, that's the battery Dec 28 12:45:28 right so um Dec 28 12:45:34 first of all, you brick it at your own risk :) Dec 28 12:45:37 Heh Dec 28 12:45:37 i'm sure you read the fine print Dec 28 12:45:51 second. i'm not an expert, and this is not official technical support Dec 28 12:45:57 for that, please call nokia cares at... Dec 28 12:46:05 (what's that number? 1-800-nokia-cares ?) Dec 28 12:46:18 nokia cares? :P scary Dec 28 12:46:46 but typically for basic stuff, you remove the battery, plug in the usb, start the flasher, insert the battery, knock on wood, pray, sacrifice one or two goats and three chickens Dec 28 12:46:58 we don't care Dec 28 12:47:11 i don't put the the battery back in? Dec 28 12:47:13 Hah Dec 28 12:47:24 that's covered by 'insert' Dec 28 12:47:28 oh Dec 28 12:47:30 heh Dec 28 12:47:32 however if yoy want to do that after you pray Dec 28 12:47:35 that's probably wiser Dec 28 12:47:51 alrighty Dec 28 12:47:57 so, are you in .de or .us? Dec 28 12:48:12 (or somewhere stranger) Dec 28 12:48:16 .de Dec 28 12:48:35 <`Mace> Stskeeps ? Dec 28 12:48:37 Germany 0180 501 502 0 Mon - Sat / 9-18 Dec 28 12:48:40 `Mace: mm? Dec 28 12:48:48 that's the nokia care number Dec 28 12:48:52 <`Mace> i checked out the settings and maxed it out Dec 28 12:48:57 <`Mace> just now Dec 28 12:49:03 `Mace: lemme check Dec 28 12:49:09 <`Mace> had it set to 2000MHz ... which should have been 1000x2 Dec 28 12:49:18 or at least, rather, perhaps, that's /a/ nokia care number Dec 28 12:49:20 <`Mace> it's up to 4000 now Dec 28 12:49:24 and nokia's web ui is ... Dec 28 12:49:28 * timeless sighs and whacks nokia Dec 28 12:49:35 after inserting the battery, should i press home & on? Dec 28 12:49:44 <`Mace> see if it works a little better.. if it doesn't then i'll allocate some more mem for you Dec 28 12:50:08 yeah, sure :) Dec 28 12:50:15 pray first Dec 28 12:50:26 pray early, pray often Dec 28 12:50:39 `Mace: i'll try later, - parents in law in house and leaving soon.. :P Dec 28 12:50:43 nothing happens :/ Dec 28 12:50:48 screen stays black Dec 28 12:50:50 nothing? Dec 28 12:50:54 um.... Dec 28 12:51:22 don't suppose you have a battery compatible device :) Dec 28 12:51:27 <`Mace> Stskeeps - right now you're avging 17MHz for some reason ;) probably because it sucked up the resources from being idle Dec 28 12:51:31 sikor_sxe, you sure the battery wasn't near-empty before flashing? Dec 28 12:52:04 http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/153/ Dec 28 12:52:11 that's my comment on batteries and flashing :) Dec 28 12:52:21 * timeless should go shopping Dec 28 12:52:46 <`Mace> Stskeeps - let me know if it didn't help. i may need to shut it down and give you more mem and double check all the settings and give it a higher priority Dec 28 12:53:10 qwerty12_N800: i doubt that. but it might be, android does not support battery Dec 28 12:53:13 now that Dec 28 12:53:16 timeless, heh Dec 28 12:53:16 's interesting Dec 28 12:53:42 i put in the ac and a green console output appears Dec 28 12:53:51 kernel version etc Dec 28 12:53:55 it isn't published because it's missing art and a proofreader Dec 28 12:54:23 sikor_sxe, yeah, happens in rd mode. sounds like it may be booting Dec 28 12:54:49 it was in rd mode before Dec 28 12:54:53 `Mace: you can just restart if needed, no server processes Dec 28 12:54:57 for nitdroid Dec 28 12:55:04 * timeless loads zemanta Dec 28 12:55:13 <`Mace> Stskeeps - i will if it's still going slow for you ;) Dec 28 12:55:15 timeless, re proofreading, here's one: s/you might get even more shots But you might also die./you might get even more shots. But you might also die./ :P Dec 28 12:55:43 <`Mace> just try it out a bit more... let me know if it still sucks... i'll shut it down and amp it up Dec 28 12:55:51 thanks Dec 28 12:56:11 timeless: ok, i guess that means the device is bricked Dec 28 12:56:39 sikor: nokia care :) Dec 28 12:56:40 *sigh* at least one gadget less to occupy my time Dec 28 12:57:19 qwerty: fwiw Dec 28 12:57:24 http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/153/index.txt Dec 28 12:57:26 pheew i don't think it'll be worth the hazzle. i guess it involves sending stuff around? Dec 28 12:57:30 is the master Dec 28 12:57:33 * RST38h has got his hands onto 5800 Dec 28 12:57:36 which explains the missing punctuation Dec 28 12:57:41 So far so good Dec 28 12:57:44 * timeless tries to decide what punctuation to use Dec 28 12:57:49 * timeless thinks a dash is better Dec 28 12:57:53 :) Dec 28 12:58:21 * timeless grumbles Dec 28 12:59:21 sikor_sxe: n800 or n810? Dec 28 13:00:10 sikor_sxe: try the following.. turn off tablet, connect to computer using usb, start flasher, put in charger Dec 28 13:02:19 ruby-maemo is now 19 packages Dec 28 13:02:36 well Dec 28 13:03:11 i left the n800 connected to the ac for a while Dec 28 13:03:17 and tried timeless' instructions Dec 28 13:03:26 qwerty: reload the html page? Dec 28 13:03:29 this time the flasher went through 100% Dec 28 13:03:32 oh, good Dec 28 13:03:42 :) Dec 28 13:03:56 great, a boot screen Dec 28 13:04:23 :) Dec 28 13:04:33 thanks timeless, qwerty12_N800 and Stskeeps Dec 28 13:04:37 :) Dec 28 13:05:13 sikor_sxe, looks like your time will be occupied again :) Dec 28 13:05:20 yeah, pity Dec 28 13:05:21 timeless, nice :D :) Dec 28 13:05:55 qwerty: which gun location do you prefer, top or bottom Dec 28 13:06:24 timeless, I like it at the top Dec 28 13:06:41 ok Dec 28 13:06:46 * timeless hunts for a flashing icon Dec 28 13:06:58 timeless: doesn't the battery charge if it's not flashed correctly? Dec 28 13:07:33 um Dec 28 13:07:45 if you manager to totally hose it, you can be in really bad shape :) Dec 28 13:07:59 there's no guarantee you can't fry the code responsible for battery control Dec 28 13:08:06 (charing, capping, stopping, discharging ...) Dec 28 13:08:22 everyone tries to prevent letting users get devices into a state where they might e.g. explode Dec 28 13:08:31 but if you're very clever, you might manage it Dec 28 13:08:44 -... don't play russian roulette Dec 28 13:08:53 if qwerty12_N800 hasn't exploded his yet, it'd require either a really smart person, .. or a complete and utter idiot Dec 28 13:09:03 heh Dec 28 13:09:21 you're sure there's code involved in charging the battery? Dec 28 13:09:26 absolutely Dec 28 13:09:32 * RST38h wonders why Nokia Software Updater takes 24MB just in archived form Dec 28 13:09:34 (spoken w/ engineers about it) Dec 28 13:09:40 Just WHAT exactly is there? Dec 28 13:09:40 rst: the gui one? Dec 28 13:09:44 w/ all the pictures? Dec 28 13:09:52 and localizations? :) Dec 28 13:09:53 RST38h: pictures of happy children Dec 28 13:10:03 .. probably Dec 28 13:10:05 or was that ubuntu? Dec 28 13:10:06 :P Dec 28 13:10:40 actually Dec 28 13:10:52 Nokia Internet Tablet Software Update Wizard Dec 28 13:10:57 is 2mb on disk Dec 28 13:11:00 Stskeeps, ever see the do it with ubuntu t-shirts? :P Dec 28 13:11:18 qwerty12_N800: not recently, no Dec 28 13:11:35 Sts: The UI is ugly like hell, not many pictures there Dec 28 13:11:52 rst: which thing is 24mb? Dec 28 13:11:53 Sts: So whatever pedophilic softporn is there, the application is not showing it Dec 28 13:12:21 * RST38h suspects that this thing is quietly installing another Java Runtime Dec 28 13:12:28 there's also perhaps 3mb in a cable driver Dec 28 13:12:33 not sure if that came w/ the flasher Dec 28 13:12:44 1/2mb in a flashing cable driver Dec 28 13:13:01 2mb in "tablet update" Dec 28 13:13:11 is it just me, or is fennec alpha 2 still far from usable? Dec 28 13:13:22 sikor: how many bugs have you filed? Dec 28 13:13:25 * timeless has only filed one Dec 28 13:13:34 It is still alpha sikor_sxe Dec 28 13:14:06 Shit, the installed version is 36MB and it refuses to uninstall Dec 28 13:14:09 not that's it's buggy or crashes a lot, but it's so unresponsive i doubt it'll go anywhere Dec 28 13:14:11 * timeless needs to file a second Dec 28 13:14:20 And the new one refuses to install unless the previous one is uninstalled Dec 28 13:14:23 Perfect, just perfect Dec 28 13:14:27 sikor: well... responsiveness is an interesting problem Dec 28 13:14:34 we have half plans to try to fix that Dec 28 13:14:39 but they're um... complicated Dec 28 13:14:54 esp by the fact that microb has shown the frameworks aren't very friendly to that stuff Dec 28 13:15:20 It is alpha ... Dec 28 13:15:26 (sure, some of the bugs were introduced by the microb engineers, but i think some of them aren't solvable and are the fault of the components we use) Dec 28 13:15:42 alterego: i don't think i'd expect great responsiveness from 10 Dec 28 13:15:44 err 1.0 Dec 28 13:16:12 Yeah, that one was more pointed at "I need to uninstall the previous version" comment :) Dec 28 13:16:29 is this on the tablet? Dec 28 13:16:35 because that's darn depressing :) Dec 28 13:16:42 i just wonder why maemo was choosen as a reference platform Dec 28 13:16:45 anyone have a decent picture of a flashing thing? Dec 28 13:16:53 sikor: what would you prefer? Dec 28 13:16:56 windows mobile? Dec 28 13:17:00 symbian? Dec 28 13:17:03 iphone? Dec 28 13:17:07 zaurus? Dec 28 13:17:16 newton? Dec 28 13:17:20 heh Dec 28 13:17:22 palm? Dec 28 13:17:30 there aren't many choices Dec 28 13:17:42 while there is a port to BeOS and the newer palms are somewhat related to beos Dec 28 13:17:49 in practice, i think the system requirements aren't there :) Dec 28 13:17:56 forget newton for obvious reasons Dec 28 13:18:00 * RST38h googles for Nokia Software Updater and discovers the bottomless pits of Nokia hate Dec 28 13:18:02 forget iphone for licensing reasons Dec 28 13:18:09 rst: heh Dec 28 13:18:14 it seems to be too high-end for the hardware Dec 28 13:18:19 same thing with canola Dec 28 13:18:21 rst: well, all mine did was eat my saved connections Dec 28 13:18:25 All right, let us do it the hard way Dec 28 13:18:38 symbian is out because there's no finnished port Dec 28 13:18:47 that leaves windows mobile and maemo Dec 28 13:18:59 realistically, windows mobile doesn't have the right hacker mentality Dec 28 13:19:05 and there aren't many people using gecko there Dec 28 13:19:10 all the eye-candy isn't worth much if it's choppy Dec 28 13:19:14 whereas microb on maemo is established w/ hacker clientelle Dec 28 13:19:23 REGEDIT TIME! Dec 28 13:19:23 well.. Dec 28 13:19:32 the eyecandy isn't eyecandy Dec 28 13:19:35 it's idea candy Dec 28 13:19:43 the idea is to reinvent how things are done Dec 28 13:19:52 the precise details and eyecandy can be ironed out later Dec 28 13:20:06 alphas are for adding features, staging ideas, and collecting feedback Dec 28 13:20:15 polish comes much later Dec 28 13:20:53 will maemo 5 stay api compatible Dec 28 13:20:55 ? Dec 28 13:21:01 * timeless shrugs Dec 28 13:21:09 check qgil's announcements? Dec 28 13:21:30 you shouldn't need to ask a non authoritative channel when there are publications about :) Dec 28 13:22:13 i just wondered wether maybe fennec is developed with a later hardware revision in mind Dec 28 13:22:42 the mozilla engineers are buying/collecting n800/n810s Dec 28 13:22:48 they have no access to other hardware Dec 28 13:23:00 although they are talking about getting beagleboards or similar Dec 28 13:23:10 they do at least for the time being expect to ship to the n800/n810s Dec 28 13:23:21 since again, there aren't many viable targets atm Dec 28 13:23:27 and they need to target /something/ Dec 28 13:23:36 they need something w/ a reasonable number of deployed devices Dec 28 13:23:45 so even if newer hardware appeared, it wouldn't be useful Dec 28 13:23:52 because it'd take time for people to buy it Dec 28 13:24:23 i developed some gameboy homebrew stuff once, all in an emulator :) Dec 28 13:24:29 qwerty: i can't find a better flasher picture than: http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:qsFGZS_iIaLj5M:http://www.bleb.org/software/maemo/770Flasher.png Dec 28 13:24:36 surely there's a windows flasher image online? Dec 28 13:26:19 * timeless sighs Dec 28 13:26:35 it looks like i told firefox never to load images from nokiausa.com :) Dec 28 13:28:28 hrm, the nokia software updater (for the n810) is ~3mb Dec 28 13:28:35 who was complaining about ~24mb? Dec 28 13:28:43 the phone thing does gobs of things Dec 28 13:28:54 ~20 different features or ~100 different models Dec 28 13:29:41 http://flickr.com/photos/yorkie/2370080030/ mmmmmmm Dec 28 13:29:51 (my pcsuite is ~50mb) Dec 28 13:30:23 "phone thing" does exactly one thing - it downloads and updates firmware. Dec 28 13:30:43 why this simple thing requires 24MB of crap is beyond me Dec 28 13:30:46 hrm, my phone thing is broken Dec 28 13:31:02 it's not for end users :) Dec 28 13:31:25 what version do you have? Dec 28 13:31:43 mine really is ~2mb Dec 28 13:34:02 (actually, the last time i tried to use the software updater, i failed and had to resort to using someone else's computer Dec 28 13:34:12 and iirc the time before that,i also used someone else's computer) Dec 28 13:39:12 hehe, "community open source projects" start finding out they are not community Dec 28 13:39:20 First Mozilla, now OpenOffice Dec 28 13:39:28 rst: url for mozilla? Dec 28 13:39:29 Eclipse too, most likely Dec 28 13:39:52 last i checked mozilla was relatively healthy Dec 28 13:41:36 open office never was healthy Dec 28 13:42:00 * timeless nods Dec 28 13:42:12 they're just there because there's no competition Dec 28 13:42:34 and everyone hails them as a flag for open source excellence, when really it's just an amalgam of crappy software Dec 28 13:42:42 which reminds me that abiword is still not totally usable on Maemo Dec 28 13:43:06 crashanddie: are you really sure the software is crappy? Dec 28 13:43:17 from what i've seen, the code isn't that bad, and the docs seem volumous Dec 28 13:43:24 (which is not atypicaly from sun) Dec 28 13:45:01 if you want low quality code Dec 28 13:45:13 i can point you to every single open source codec Dec 28 13:45:19 * timeless has looked at a couple of late Dec 28 13:45:23 or most browser plugins Dec 28 13:45:29 (open source or closed, i'm not picky) Dec 28 13:45:50 (although i think the open source ones are probably at least marginally worse) Dec 28 13:46:26 and there's no point in talking about anything written w/ gtk :) Dec 28 13:46:37 (or for s60 for that matter) Dec 28 13:46:58 Voluminous documentation doesn't help you much when most of it is wrong. Dec 28 13:47:09 is that the case for ooo? Dec 28 13:47:24 Well, I don't know about "most", but certainly "a lot". Dec 28 13:47:42 is that from churn or was it wrong from the gate? Dec 28 13:47:51 They also have the same features implemented about 18 different times, each with their own bugs, and refuse to refactor anything. Dec 28 13:48:04 timeless: I'll be generous and assume the latter. Dec 28 13:48:32 It's what happens in large projects with lots of documentation. Dec 28 13:48:34 * timeless pokes google chrome w/ a sledgehammer Dec 28 13:48:42 * timeless shrugs Dec 28 13:48:54 ime at least w/ solaris, the documentation is generally fairly close to accurate Dec 28 13:49:07 if there's a systemic problem it's usually because the doc geneator is broken, not the docs Dec 28 13:49:19 Yes, well. Solaris is not run like OOo. Dec 28 13:49:41 odd Dec 28 13:50:34 My roommate uses OOo automation stuff for his job... he could do a much better job telling you about all of its shortcomings than I could. Dec 28 13:50:48 But I get to hear about them regularly. Dec 28 13:50:56 nbytes = 0x1578012 Dec 28 13:51:12 * timeless sighs Dec 28 13:51:24 someone's complaining that if they try very hard they can use lots of memory Dec 28 13:51:41 don't ask me why that's remotely interesting Dec 28 13:52:03 Anyway, as an author of two open source codecs, I'll ask you to be specific with your low quality code remark. Dec 28 13:52:04 (and no, they haven't explained) Dec 28 13:52:14 derf: url for your code? Dec 28 13:52:17 i'll give you a list Dec 28 13:52:23 it should take about 5-10mins Dec 28 13:52:38 but generally codecs aren't written to handle alloc failure Dec 28 13:52:49 which isn't acceptable because codecs are almost always run: Dec 28 13:52:51 a. in process Dec 28 13:52:53 b. on untrusted data Dec 28 13:53:03 timeless: That's because alloc doesn't generally _handle_ failure correctly. Dec 28 13:53:07 c. with at least user privileges (i.e. not as nobody) Dec 28 13:53:13 the usability is horrendous Dec 28 13:53:14 thus the software is crap Dec 28 13:53:14 software != code Dec 28 13:53:34 On many OS's, malloc over-commits pages. Dec 28 13:53:45 derf: well, that's not really true Dec 28 13:53:50 * alterego yawns Dec 28 13:53:51 And so it doesn't return NULL when you're out of memory, and then it segfaults when you try to use it. Dec 28 13:53:55 the only os i know of that lies through its teach is linux Dec 28 13:54:00 osx doesn't Dec 28 13:54:02 windows doesn't Dec 28 13:54:05 bsd/solaris don't Dec 28 13:54:08 qnx doesn't Dec 28 13:54:10 beos doesn't Dec 28 13:54:17 and i've run out of memory on all of those Dec 28 13:54:20 (and os/2 for that matter) Dec 28 13:54:28 malloc really will return null Dec 28 13:54:43 in fact, it's trivial to get malloc to return null on linux Dec 28 13:54:51 (it just doesn't usually happen for "small" allocs) Dec 28 13:55:05 if you ask for 3.9gb on a 32bit system, the malloc will fail Dec 28 13:55:14 (return 0) Dec 28 13:55:26 speaking of which Dec 28 13:55:29 * timeless checks a realloc Dec 28 13:55:37 Sure... if it can't even make the page table entries, but that's not the point... Dec 28 13:55:44 nbytes = 0x20c5080 Dec 28 13:55:54 The point is not that it _can_ return NULL, it's that it _can_ return non-NULL, even when it succeeds. Dec 28 13:56:02 *even when it fails Dec 28 13:56:05 not particularly relevant Dec 28 13:56:16 you're supposed to handle the cases that are guaranteed to happen Dec 28 13:56:30 not say "i'm not going to write corect code because sometimes things won't behave correctly" Dec 28 13:56:35 what kind of lame excuse is that? Dec 28 13:56:54 I'm saying your definition of correctly is wrong. Dec 28 13:57:01 Because it doesn't actually solve the problem you think it's solving. Dec 28 13:57:10 the problem i want solved is that: Dec 28 13:57:11 1. you don't leak Dec 28 13:57:16 2. you don't allow arbitrary code execution Dec 28 13:57:21 (possibly not in that order) Dec 28 13:57:37 you can't rely on the kernel oom killer to save you from either of those Dec 28 13:57:45 Explain to me how malloc returning NULL leads to arbitrary code execution. Dec 28 13:58:01 there are some very cool PoCs wrt flash of late which do that Dec 28 13:58:07 if you don't check the alloc Dec 28 13:58:20 and you do an array deref instead of a simple null deref Dec 28 13:58:22 and it's a write Dec 28 13:58:30 then you can end up setting up for something quite interesting Dec 28 13:58:39 anyway, the last adobe flash exploit was basically that Dec 28 13:58:46 there are some cooler ones too Dec 28 13:58:48 but anyway Dec 28 13:58:51 Yes, I saw it. That's a substantially more complicated setup. Dec 28 13:59:04 And not _just_ caused by the malloc failure. Dec 28 13:59:05 nbytes = 0x27edfca Dec 28 13:59:18 oh, sure, it's not 'just' Dec 28 13:59:24 but it was one of the bits Dec 28 13:59:33 and most codecs are worse than flash Dec 28 13:59:34 not better Dec 28 13:59:39 But that's like saying, "Well, you use array references. That can lead to arbitrary code execution, so let's get rid of all of them." Dec 28 13:59:48 i'm not saying that Dec 28 13:59:52 i'm saying write correct code Dec 28 14:00:10 I'm saying, and have said, that "correct" does not mean what you want it to mean. Dec 28 14:00:11 and don't cop out because on linux sometimes you'll be killed by the kernel because it got caught w/ its pants down Dec 28 14:00:26 your code should not crash Dec 28 14:00:30 if someone wants to kill it, that's fine Dec 28 14:00:38 that's a very simple definition of correct Dec 28 14:00:40 and you should live with it. Dec 28 14:00:43 and you should live by it Dec 28 14:00:46 and that's all. Dec 28 14:00:51 * timeless prepares /ignore Dec 28 14:01:30 If your goal is really not to crash period, checking malloc returns is in sufficient. You'll need a signal handler. And what the heck you think you can usefully do once _that_ trips, I'll be interested to hear. Dec 28 14:01:37 *insufficient Dec 28 14:01:40 no Dec 28 14:01:45 signal handlers don't work Dec 28 14:01:51 they generally lead to exploits actually Dec 28 14:01:53 WOnderful! Now the Software Updater says that there is a newer version installed and STILL refuses to install Dec 28 14:01:56 I agree, they're fairly useless. Dec 28 14:02:08 But those are the tools you've got. Dec 28 14:02:10 about the only safe thing a signal handler can do is kill(9) Dec 28 14:02:18 Nokia should just fire the whole team =( Dec 28 14:02:29 especially for various linux flavors where signal dispatch was to a random thread :) Dec 28 14:02:34 or something similarly amusing Dec 28 14:02:51 i'm curious, can you name a case where you really need a signal handler to not crash? Dec 28 14:02:57 ignoring the oom killer killing you Dec 28 14:03:09 and ignoring the fact that writing correct code takes effort Dec 28 14:03:13 RST38h, tried the windows installer clean up tool? also, if you don't have pc suite installed, the pc suite cleanup tool helped Dec 28 14:03:25 where do you strictly speaking *need* a signal handler? Dec 28 14:03:34 array bounds checking can be done Dec 28 14:03:38 so can alloc checking Dec 28 14:03:42 and so can checking division Dec 28 14:03:58 the case of libraries getting unloaded or people misusing atexit Dec 28 14:04:15 are distinct problems (or rather, they're simply bugs in other libraries) Dec 28 14:04:22 qwerty: Is there such a thing? Dec 28 14:04:22 * timeless curses atk-something-something Dec 28 14:04:43 I told you, you malloc pages, it makes page table entries, but doesn't actually give you pages, and then you try to use them, and you segfault. If you want to try to "ignore" away the whole problem, that's fine. Dec 28 14:04:50 qwerty: Well, I have just done my own "cleanup" by deleting all references to Software Installer and PC Connectivity Solution from the registery Dec 28 14:04:58 that's a bug in the linux kernel Dec 28 14:05:02 Currently running registry cleanup Dec 28 14:05:03 it doesn't happen on the other kernels Dec 28 14:05:16 (the real question is why am I supposed to do all this?) Dec 28 14:05:21 RST38h, I did that 3 times to install phoenix... Dec 28 14:05:26 I think it's a bug in your machine. You obviously haven't installed enough RAM. Dec 28 14:05:29 and yes, if you want to deal w/ that part of the kernel, you can replace libc w/ a libc which forceallocs w/ a signal handler Dec 28 14:05:42 So I'm going to "ignore" your part of the problem. Dec 28 14:05:49 derf: shrug, i have 4g of ram and 30 or so g of vm Dec 28 14:05:54 qwerty: holyfreakingshit Dec 28 14:06:22 I mean, one of the big arguments, to me, for not bother to check malloc returns, is so that people _don't_ blindly assume that just because you checked to make sure that something wasn't NULL, everything is hunky-dory. Dec 28 14:06:42 kinda lame Dec 28 14:06:53 if you need to ensure stuff gets to disk, then you need to do that Dec 28 14:06:59 and probably periodically w/ an fsync Dec 28 14:07:07 the system can power_off() arbitrarilly Dec 28 14:07:18 or the user can kill-9 you arbitrarilly Dec 28 14:07:26 those are both legal and can happen whenever Dec 28 14:07:42 the system failing to actually give you the memory it promimsed (and then kill-9'ing you) is no different Dec 28 14:07:45 kill -9 has never been part of the use cases of any program Dec 28 14:07:56 and if it is, it's because the designer/programmer has way too much time on his hands Dec 28 14:08:05 the whole point of kill -9 is that it stops EVERYTHING Dec 28 14:08:12 crashanddie: well, not quite true Dec 28 14:08:24 thus not surprisingly also doesn't allow IO operations to finish graciously Dec 28 14:08:30 file descriptors that go away because they're unlink()ed Dec 28 14:08:47 File descriptors don't go away because they're unlink()ed in Unix. Dec 28 14:08:51 one coudl almost make a program that could tolerate it Dec 28 14:09:19 derf: w/ 0 handles left in memory + 0 ref count on disk? Dec 28 14:09:31 ignoring some very strange stuff, they typically do Dec 28 14:09:34 timeless: A "file descriptor" _is_ a handle left in memory. Dec 28 14:09:39 (shared memory and the broken linux descriptor ...) Dec 28 14:09:52 derf: kill -9 solves that file descriptor Dec 28 14:10:05 sorry... pick the correct terminology if you really need to Dec 28 14:10:15 qwerty: It seems to have helped Dec 28 14:10:17 but if you make a file on disk, and unlink it, but keep a file handle to it Dec 28 14:10:20 Anyway, I don't even know what the gekk you're talking about now. It certainly isn't overcommitting pages. Dec 28 14:10:22 it isn't quite dead until your app dies Dec 28 14:10:34 kill -9 will resolve the last handle and the file will die Dec 28 14:10:54 RST38h, :) Dec 28 14:10:58 I don't see how that is a problem Dec 28 14:11:00 it's a digression wrt how someone could handle kill -9 ) Dec 28 14:11:02 qwerty: Thanks! Dec 28 14:11:20 the haptic feedback on 5800 is weird Dec 28 14:11:22 anyway... the point is that, sure, overcommit happens on linux because linux is broken Dec 28 14:11:34 feels more like something is rattling inside the phone every time you touch it =) Dec 28 14:11:34 anything not written to disk will be lost when the program crashes/computer shuts down... Now there's a discovery Dec 28 14:11:34 but you still need to handle the cases where overcommit doesn't happen Dec 28 14:11:47 crashanddie: heh Dec 28 14:12:20 btw, for people interested in banks, i've got a great one for you: Dec 28 14:12:22 https://www.apnaloan.com/ Dec 28 14:12:37 lol? Dec 28 14:12:47 Invalid certificate, and bank recommendations from IRC... Dec 28 14:12:57 not invalid, self signed :) Dec 28 14:13:11 who wouldn't trust a self signed bank? :) Dec 28 14:13:16 lol Dec 28 14:13:27 case Dec 28 14:13:38 Handling it doesn't make your code any "safer", but it does lead people to think it has when it hasn't. Dec 28 14:13:39 oops, wrong window Dec 28 14:13:43 indian bank? lol Dec 28 14:13:51 But okay, we now know where we both stand on the issue. Dec 28 14:14:07 crashsanddie: oh, one of the indian banks had an "nformation technology" OU iirc Dec 28 14:14:11 we liked that Dec 28 14:14:13 So you've named one thing that causes "low quality code". Dec 28 14:14:23 So, what else you got? Dec 28 14:14:33 derf: that's pretty much all i care about Dec 28 14:14:45 those are easy to spot,, and generally they're wrong Dec 28 14:14:49 Okay, so you were blowing smoke like I thought. Dec 28 14:14:57 it's not smoke. there are real fires Dec 28 14:15:10 There are. Your "solution" won't solve them. Dec 28 14:15:16 ? Dec 28 14:15:26 Checking malloc is insufficient to achieve your stated goals. Dec 28 14:15:33 the goal is not crash Dec 28 14:15:36 Right. Dec 28 14:15:43 being kill -9'd is not within the defintion of 'crash' Dec 28 14:16:03 sure there are other ways to write sloppy code Dec 28 14:16:08 Running out of pages is not being kill -9'd. Dec 28 14:16:10 and those other ways that result in crashes are bugs Dec 28 14:16:40 accessing a page that the system can't provide ... Dec 28 14:16:43 Though now that I see you somehow have conflated the two, I can understand why you went off on the rest of that random tangent. Dec 28 14:17:02 * timeless is confused Dec 28 14:17:10 running out of pages is something you mentioned Dec 28 14:17:11 I can tell. Dec 28 14:17:27 if a process has allocated 2g - 1k of memory on a 32bit system w/ 2g userspace Dec 28 14:17:38 and tries to allocate 1m of memory, sure it's exhausted pages Dec 28 14:17:42 and sure it'll get null back Dec 28 14:17:52 but i wasn't talking about exhausting pages Dec 28 14:17:56 that was something you introduced Dec 28 14:18:00 Neither was I. Dec 28 14:18:08 * timeless shrugs Dec 28 14:18:10 this one has it as well Dec 28 14:18:10 lol... only one subject, no subjectaltname field, no iPAddress field, nothing Dec 28 14:18:10 it's like a 14yo tried his hands at PKI Dec 28 14:18:10 I'm not talking about failing to create the page table entries. Dec 28 14:18:13 lol... PKCS#1 Dec 28 14:18:27 ~ping Dec 28 14:18:28 ~pong Dec 28 14:18:28 I'm saying it makes the page table entries just fine and hands you back a pointer. Dec 28 14:18:56 withi no backing store from the kernel, no? Dec 28 14:19:00 (linux overcommit) Dec 28 14:19:05 And then when you _reference_ one of the pages, it tries to actually go and find some RAM to back that page table entry, and fails, and trips a segfault. Dec 28 14:19:12 how about we just go to another conversation subject Dec 28 14:19:22 crashanddie: This is what I was trying to do. Dec 28 14:19:28 * timeless frowns Dec 28 14:19:42 last i checked that results in the kernel trying to make a matching backing store Dec 28 14:19:49 and failing that resorts to kill -9 Dec 28 14:20:56 crashanddie, well, would you trust: https://www.nationalbank.co.nz/ :) Dec 28 14:21:50 wtf Dec 28 14:21:54 * timeless kicks verisign Dec 28 14:22:10 timeless, nope Dec 28 14:22:25 crashanddie: it gets more amusing Dec 28 14:22:31 try visiting https: Dec 28 14:22:45 (err https://... Dec 28 14:23:11 heh Dec 28 14:23:23 they redirect to the http version? Dec 28 14:23:30 of the original server Dec 28 14:23:35 not the one that had a valid cert Dec 28 14:23:54 the "log in" button actually goes to the right thing Dec 28 14:24:00 yeah, that's cheating Dec 28 14:24:05 * timeless is staring at that page right now Dec 28 14:24:10 where did https://www.thelongthing come from? Dec 28 14:24:13 * timeless is trying to decide which part of verisign to phone Dec 28 14:24:24 sp3000: it's the logical choice given the http host Dec 28 14:24:42 i'm doing: google: "bank" + Dec 28 14:24:53 then changing urls from http: to https: Dec 28 14:25:01 and watching the results w/ amusement Dec 28 14:25:13 sp3000, good practise would encourage you to have certificates for all the publicly accessible websites Dec 28 14:25:45 crashanddie: not just certificates, but valid, anchored, trusted, and non redirecting Dec 28 14:25:58 preferably w/ all http sites immediately redirecting to https equivalents Dec 28 14:26:04 or, for the admin's ease of use, one certificate that covers all the different addresses and IPs Dec 28 14:26:22 not necessarily, https is not needed when displaying public bank information Dec 28 14:26:27 um Dec 28 14:26:30 * timeless coughs Dec 28 14:26:45 if you visited the url http://www.nationalbank.co.nz/ Dec 28 14:26:52 but you were in a net cafe Dec 28 14:26:56 and it had a login link Dec 28 14:27:00 which sent you to some https site Dec 28 14:27:06 which wasn't www.nationalbank.co.nz Dec 28 14:27:13 would you be happy? Dec 28 14:27:17 would you be safe? Dec 28 14:27:18 which is why people should check the certificate Dec 28 14:27:22 what, like to mbmz? :) Dec 28 14:27:23 against what? Dec 28 14:27:26 er, nbnz Dec 28 14:27:28 the name Dec 28 14:27:32 what name? Dec 28 14:27:38 the stupid bank's cert isn't EV Dec 28 14:27:41 it's DV Dec 28 14:27:52 although verisign for reasons beyond my comprehension claims it's IV Dec 28 14:27:55 whatever the heck IV is Dec 28 14:28:21 timeless, show me a certificate you have the private key of that has www.ntlbk.co.nz or whatever the name is, and that is signed by verisign Dec 28 14:28:32 Perfect^2: Nokia supplies software update utility that does not support 5800 Dec 28 14:28:32 crashanddie: i don't need to Dec 28 14:28:42 i could get www.dsnfs.co.nz Dec 28 14:28:52 as long as the http thing linked to it and looked right Dec 28 14:28:55 why would you be the wiser? Dec 28 14:29:03 RST38h, looks like you need phoenix too :) Dec 28 14:29:16 what is phoenix? Dec 28 14:29:25 timeless, because I'm a PKI professional and actually take note of all the certificates I allow/deny on my machine? ;) Dec 28 14:29:28 what rst38h asked Dec 28 14:29:43 crashanddie: and you are a representative sample of what population? Dec 28 14:29:51 timeless, the one in my room Dec 28 14:30:00 oh good Dec 28 14:30:06 that doesn't help the rest of us Dec 28 14:30:16 i mean seriously Dec 28 14:30:17 RST38h, nokia flasher tool that nokia use in service centers. it's been cracked many times, Dec 28 14:30:24 qwerty: An you know the funny thing? Dec 28 14:30:40 Enlighten me :) Dec 28 14:30:41 is it easier to use? :) Dec 28 14:30:45 qwerty: nokia.ru lets me download software update utility that is 15MB instead of 25MB Dec 28 14:30:47 or does it run linux? Dec 28 14:31:03 rst38: how many locales? Dec 28 14:31:06 qwerty: gonna see how it is different Dec 28 14:31:10 * timeless still doesn't know what's in that Dec 28 14:31:10 timeless, I think it's just that a lot of website designs prevent the use of https in a correct manner. Dec 28 14:31:11 Says ENGLISH Dec 28 14:31:14 my updater is really ~4mb Dec 28 14:31:23 RST38h, heh :/ Dec 28 14:31:24 so i really wonder what the other 20mb are :) Dec 28 14:31:29 meh, just use ota updates :) Dec 28 14:31:47 timeless, windows only, way more complex :) Dec 28 14:32:02 timeless, you should not have to enable https to see the opening hours of a bank, but when as you pointed out, the login link is on the home page, there is a security risk. I'd like to see website designs where the two are quite different Dec 28 14:32:18 crashanddie: fwiw, in my survey i've only seen a couple of different bank uis Dec 28 14:32:22 and they're all pretty bad Dec 28 14:32:29 tell me about it Dec 28 14:32:32 the problem w/ the open hours bit Dec 28 14:32:40 timeless, that's where OTPs get handy ;) Dec 28 14:32:40 is that i could use it to setup a fake branch too Dec 28 14:32:52 * RST38h sarts suspecting what just happened Dec 28 14:33:07 Nokia has got a special update utility for poor US residents that does not support 5800 Dec 28 14:33:07 RST38h, I sart you as well Dec 28 14:33:35 timeless, that's probably pushing it a bit Dec 28 14:33:54 <*p: just happened> Dec 28 14:34:03 crashanddie: perhaps Dec 28 14:34:10 did you read the washtech one about symantec? Dec 28 14:34:18 a guy had a password sniffer Dec 28 14:34:21 and needed support Dec 28 14:34:34 so they had him pay for it by entering his CC info into the web form Dec 28 14:34:34 timeless, nope Dec 28 14:34:35 ... Dec 28 14:34:45 hahahaha Dec 28 14:35:39 the alternative is that the bank lists hours of operation + a phone number Dec 28 14:35:44 and the customer calls the phone number Dec 28 14:35:45 ... Dec 28 14:35:51 these things are all quite doable Dec 28 14:36:28 you could very well impersonate the bank on the phone as well ;) Dec 28 14:36:33 the number could e.g. be a disposable/stolen phone Dec 28 14:36:37 right :) Dec 28 14:36:50 but the point is that if there's an http page Dec 28 14:36:55 challenge response Dec 28 14:36:57 you can give out an abitrary phone number Dec 28 14:37:01 and use that Dec 28 14:37:10 dual factor (ssl v3) authentication Dec 28 14:37:15 http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2008/12/pc_got_a_virus_consider_gettin.html#comments Dec 28 14:37:21 is the symantec thing Dec 28 14:37:37 (scroll to top, sorry about anchor) Dec 28 14:37:52 well, depends how it's done Dec 28 14:38:02 if the auth has a time window, then maybe Dec 28 14:38:16 but what if the customer has never used the phone gateway before? Dec 28 14:38:32 (if the information is not time limited [time based random number generator]) Dec 28 14:38:39 (.... then you can MITM it!) Dec 28 14:38:53 Well, I've setup a blog .. Now what? >_< Dec 28 14:39:06 http://www.zemanta.com/ Dec 28 14:39:09 => alterego Dec 28 14:39:12 it helped me :) Dec 28 14:39:33 anyway, i understand why people might want http services Dec 28 14:39:50 but mostly it's because they can't get their other stuff done right Dec 28 14:40:10 (caching, session management, state, whatever) Dec 28 14:40:42 Knowing there's an attack on services that allows session highjacking for services that just do authentication through SSL and then revert to HTTP Dec 28 14:41:11 I just feel website owners should learn what is sensible information and what is not Dec 28 14:42:15 anyway, my view is clearly that banks shouldn't offer any login links from http pages Dec 28 14:42:27 especially not to servers whose domains don't precisely match the http domain Dec 28 14:42:32 if the domain differs Dec 28 14:42:46 it's too easy for someone to get my as a shadow of Dec 28 14:43:01 and most of the banks i've seen don't use EV Dec 28 14:43:12 and i don't think i've seen any explain why EV is important Dec 28 14:43:13 timeless, couldn't agree more with that Dec 28 14:43:16 (not that i want them to) Dec 28 14:43:29 the last thing we need is http pages explaining why you should care about security Dec 28 14:43:47 (because obviously an http equiv could rewrite that text...) Dec 28 14:44:25 or someone on the same network Dec 28 14:44:25 http://newpeoplesbank.com/index.php Dec 28 14:44:26 or mitm Dec 28 14:44:38 try clicking 'login' Dec 28 14:44:39 or whatever attack is all the rage these days Dec 28 14:46:37 ~ping Dec 28 14:46:38 ~pong Dec 28 14:47:05 ~smoke Dec 28 14:47:12 ~fire Dec 28 14:47:13 Bender : Light a fire for a man and he's warm for a night. Light a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life... Dec 28 14:47:17 timeless, looks like there identity vault is down Dec 28 14:47:46 whatever that is :( Dec 28 14:48:20 identity vault == directory (edirectory, active directory, ldap, whatever) that holds the information about their users/clients Dec 28 14:48:30 ah Dec 28 14:48:55 nbytes = 0x5a42058 Dec 28 14:48:57 * timeless sighs Dec 28 14:49:01 anyway Dec 28 14:49:03 I'm out Dec 28 14:49:07 have a good week Dec 28 14:49:11 almost 4PM, good time to wake up Dec 28 14:50:48 zemanta should have a reverse feature where you give it pictures and it writes your content for you Dec 28 15:14:37 ~curse NSU Dec 28 15:14:38 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, NSU ! Dec 28 15:16:03 Heh, i remember instaling NSU on a friend's computer. the installer wab Dec 28 15:16:27 nted 256mb of ram so i had to use orca on the deb Dec 28 15:16:42 sorry, stylus slipped. Dec 28 15:16:58 s/deb/msi/ Dec 28 15:17:44 Looks like Download! only has limited time demos...hehe Dec 28 15:18:07 They all say Free too , until you run them Dec 28 15:20:43 Stskeeps, you there? Dec 28 15:35:47 hi Dec 28 15:36:00 can you suggest a 3d app to test on 770 ? Dec 28 15:38:52 3d? Dec 28 15:40:15 nokia tablets lack 3d support Dec 28 15:43:42 technically maemo lacks it :) Dec 28 15:44:16 in theory, someone w/ a couple million dollars could get 3d support w/ the tablet hardware :) Dec 28 15:51:03 Well, software works. Dec 28 15:51:04 has anyone come in to problems when running a program in xterm and then when ur done not able to see you text when typing? Dec 28 15:51:20 yeah Dec 28 15:51:22 'reset' Dec 28 15:51:27 i did Dec 28 15:51:29 (command, fixes messed up fonts and stuff) Dec 28 15:52:36 i using qwerty12's osso-xterm upgrade and even clear and reset dosnt work io have totally exit xterm to get it to work again Dec 28 15:53:08 like the clear it and run the command but that text dosnt come back tho Dec 28 15:53:24 b-man: mm? Dec 28 15:55:54 b-man: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.tar.gz , test image to test (problem with tpuchscreen tap though) Dec 28 15:56:17 back Dec 28 15:56:23 did i miss something ? Dec 28 15:56:25 can you suggest a 3d app to test on 770 ? Dec 28 16:05:04 Hrm, blog posts to write today. Dec 28 16:06:57 rzr, gtk uses 3d border effects on their widgets Dec 28 16:07:04 I just set me up a blog :) Dec 28 16:07:15 :) Dec 28 16:07:53 Just playing with it now. I'm not really much of a writer so I'll probably write quite a bit of scht .. Dec 28 16:17:52 alterego, Maemo-related? Dec 28 16:18:59 Hehe, I recognize the scrollbars on nokiausa from Maemo. ;) Dec 28 16:22:05 Well, it has a maemo section :) Dec 28 16:22:33 alterego, then: http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/aggregate_your_blog/ ;) Dec 28 16:24:17 Well, I will. But I need something to write about first :P Dec 28 16:26:33 Fair enough. Dec 28 16:34:15 Contract up in February, wonder if Nokia will have any decent, subsidized AT&T phones out by then. Dec 28 16:34:29 Heh Dec 28 16:34:53 I've got an N95, couldn't be any happier with it really :) Dec 28 16:35:04 Works well with tablet, works well with laptop :D Dec 28 16:38:25 I'd do a high-end Nokia phone if I could afford it. Dec 28 16:38:42 Looks like it'll probably be down to a Samsung something, though. Dec 28 16:43:20 traitor Dec 28 16:44:06 lcuk, to Symbian? Dec 28 16:44:11 Pfft, I was never loyal to them. :P Dec 28 16:44:22 I have a Samsung A717 right now. Dec 28 16:46:03 GAN800, 1/ that sounds like a boeing; 2/ traitor to Nokia Dec 28 16:46:22 crashanddie, what makes you think it isn't a Boeing. ;) Dec 28 16:46:31 * GAN8001 really likes the Boeing 717. Dec 28 16:46:49 crashanddie, I don't have any loyalty to Nokia either. :P Just Maemo. Dec 28 16:46:50 fits in your pocket, always on communications Dec 28 16:47:06 actually Dec 28 16:47:16 you better have some loyalty towards Nokia Dec 28 16:47:21 seeing in which seat you're seated, bitch Dec 28 16:47:25 lcuk, I got one of those Mary PoppinsĀ® Pants. Dec 28 16:47:29 O_O Dec 28 16:47:32 * alterego chuckles. Dec 28 16:47:56 :O gan, so you are goatse - keep everything in your back pocket Dec 28 16:47:58 crashanddie, that doesn't follow. Dec 28 16:48:25 Nokia's neither the person who elected me nor the person who created the position. Dec 28 16:48:45 dude Dec 28 16:48:48 Nokia is a company Dec 28 16:48:51 not a person... Dec 28 16:48:52 tssss Dec 28 16:49:05 s/person/one/g Dec 28 16:49:05 GAN8001 meant: Nokia's neither the one who elected me nor the one who created the position. Dec 28 16:49:12 companies have all the rights of a person... Dec 28 16:49:28 http://blog.rubyx.co.uk/?p=3 - My first blog post :) Dec 28 16:49:31 Anyway, there's nothing at all that says I should be loyal to Nokia. :P Dec 28 16:49:33 or at least when it comes to markets and property... Dec 28 16:49:34 t_s_o: sort of, they can't get married Dec 28 16:49:41 * GAN8001 hits the thumbs over and over. Dec 28 16:50:07 r0dent: nor vote, but neither is really important to a "being" that can live forever... Dec 28 16:50:08 r0dent, thats only because no company has ever tried it Dec 28 16:50:19 hi lcuk Dec 28 16:50:25 I've seen companies fuck one another though Dec 28 16:50:27 hiya woglinde Dec 28 16:50:42 crash we see companies get into bed together all the time Dec 28 16:50:47 What about mergers? Or a strategic partnership? Dec 28 16:50:49 actually, it's part of the law that they can't vote or get married. if someone did try it, it would not stand up in court Dec 28 16:51:10 r0dent, what law? Dec 28 16:51:37 i don't know, rule 34? Dec 28 16:51:56 what country? Dec 28 16:53:26 Grrr, why can't it just generate an RSS feed for posts under a certain category! >:( Dec 28 16:53:47 lol Dec 28 16:53:54 r0dent, rule 34 :: microsoft and apple on vibrating massage chairs Dec 28 16:53:57 http://www.crainium.net/jdjArchives/Jobs_Gates.jpg Dec 28 16:54:09 hello Mr.Nokia, how are you doing today?...... LOL Dec 28 16:54:12 (ready to get it in :D) Dec 28 16:54:15 lol Dec 28 16:54:16 on even Dec 28 16:54:39 how freudian Dec 28 16:54:53 I was thinking the same Dec 28 16:55:23 what? you wanna get it on with jobs or gates? Dec 28 16:55:32 ah ya Dec 28 16:56:09 do i put new liqbase into old liqbase to prove the concept or just carry on working the widget till its viable Dec 28 16:56:18 hm? Dec 28 16:56:24 whats new? Dec 28 16:56:25 all= Dec 28 16:56:26 ? Dec 28 16:56:39 ive been reworking the inner sanctum of liqbase Dec 28 16:56:44 yeah Dec 28 16:56:54 to allow for dyniamic loading and sharing of media and stuff Dec 28 16:57:09 sharing? Dec 28 16:57:16 yeah between instances Dec 28 16:57:27 hm Dec 28 16:57:36 wh the heck I should run lcuk twice Dec 28 16:57:41 args Dec 28 16:57:41 there was no reference tracking on the objects so if 500 sketches used a single image i would have needed to load the image 500 times Dec 28 16:57:43 liqbase Dec 28 16:57:50 ah Dec 28 16:58:00 or risk having double frees or bad refs Dec 28 16:58:04 so you are doing oo-programming now Dec 28 16:58:17 so i reworked everything so theres a core media library where i can ask for and if already loaded it comes from the cache Dec 28 16:58:42 yepp thats the way to go Dec 28 16:59:03 hm later I will programm a little bit jni Dec 28 16:59:08 for gps thinkies Dec 28 16:59:11 args Dec 28 16:59:13 thingies Dec 28 16:59:17 yeah i knew that from the start Dec 28 16:59:34 you mean you only did that now? Dec 28 16:59:43 How... Disappointing... :D Dec 28 16:59:52 only now ive got the tabletpc i might actually consider something which was not viable before Dec 28 17:00:34 the tiles have always been like that, but i underestimate how many style objects i would need Dec 28 17:01:15 i've installed scratchbox but i ran into a couple of problems, the armel thingy wouldn't install, only the i386 one Dec 28 17:01:27 and it was missing just about all the needed repo's Dec 28 17:01:36 bakarat did you read the install faq? Dec 28 17:01:41 i've been piecing together the necessary repo's but i still can't get anything working really Dec 28 17:01:54 woglinde, parts ye Dec 28 17:01:55 bakarat, with the SDK you dont need extra repos or anything Dec 28 17:02:02 lcuk, but...nothing is working Dec 28 17:02:17 bakarat then follow the install document to the end Dec 28 17:02:18 basically i wanted to preview the maemo-mapper (to see how well it functions) before i actually go out and buy me a maemo-based device :> Dec 28 17:02:23 then: Scratchbox :: you're doing it wrong Dec 28 17:02:44 how are you gonna do mapping without gps? Dec 28 17:02:46 http://repository.maemo.org/stable/4.1.2/INSTALL.txt Dec 28 17:03:05 or touch testing without touchscreen Dec 28 17:03:09 bakarat the internal gps is not so good Dec 28 17:03:11 or speed testing without speed Dec 28 17:03:20 lol internal gps on scratchbox is worse Dec 28 17:03:21 fir in car use you have to be near a window Dec 28 17:03:29 lcuk ah right Dec 28 17:03:30 sorry Dec 28 17:03:34 locgical error Dec 28 17:03:35 dont be :) Dec 28 17:03:46 lcuk, well actually, i was hoping to get some functionality without an actual gps receiver atm Dec 28 17:03:56 scratchbox dont show you how the gps inside the tablet works Dec 28 17:03:59 bakarat, you'll be able to download maps Dec 28 17:04:15 bakarat, and view them on your screen Dec 28 17:04:17 well, i suppose scratchbox gps DOES give an accurate view of the n810 gps Dec 28 17:04:31 well maybe i can just ask here without testing it: i am currently looking for a gps device (needs to be able to calculate routes and preferably "say" stuff like "go left") Dec 28 17:04:42 i don't really want to buy a tomtom since...well it's only a gps :> Dec 28 17:04:47 http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node10.html#SECTION001027000000000000000 Dec 28 17:04:48 i thought the nokia n series would be cool Dec 28 17:04:56 does maemo-mapper offer a good alternative? Dec 28 17:05:00 n810 + additional purchase of wayfinder has worked for us when we need it Dec 28 17:05:07 i rather not use wayfinder Dec 28 17:05:19 lcuk uh you bought it Dec 28 17:05:25 we have bought 2 monthly licenses for wayfinder in the last 12 months Dec 28 17:05:32 i dont need gps to get me to work etc Dec 28 17:05:47 how does maemo-mapper stack up against dedicated gps devices? Dec 28 17:05:52 lcuk is it working reasoanble? Dec 28 17:06:12 works really well woglinde, my missus loves having todd in the car with her \@/ Dec 28 17:06:14 bakarat do you need routing? Dec 28 17:06:24 woglinde, yes, the primary reason for buying a gps atm Dec 28 17:06:27 maemo mapper seems a bit complicated for navigation Dec 28 17:06:41 we wiggle when he says "at the traffic circle" Dec 28 17:06:51 I'd rather use the official Map app than maemo mapper for navigation Dec 28 17:06:54 im gonna replace todd with K.I.T.T though Dec 28 17:06:54 hands down Dec 28 17:07:04 lcuk lol Dec 28 17:07:07 traffic circle? Dec 28 17:07:13 roundabout Dec 28 17:07:15 roundabout? Dec 28 17:07:16 lol Dec 28 17:07:25 and cos we are in uk, theres loads of them Dec 28 17:07:28 todd is american Dec 28 17:07:32 but tracy wont let me change it Dec 28 17:07:36 lcuk, don't come to france Dec 28 17:07:41 lcuk, they invented the fucking roundabout Dec 28 17:07:44 no fear there Dec 28 17:08:02 balls Dec 28 17:08:09 ping Dec 28 17:08:13 roundabout are great Dec 28 17:08:14 so guys, is there any open source software that runs well on nokia n810 that is a reasonable alternative to stuff like tomtom? Dec 28 17:08:28 wayfinder Dec 28 17:08:30 we just said Dec 28 17:08:32 bakarat, no, and there is a good reason for that Dec 28 17:08:32 free Dec 28 17:08:36 no Dec 28 17:08:40 is tomtom free? Dec 28 17:08:43 wayfinder licenses costs almost as much as a dedicated gps unit Dec 28 17:08:44 hehe Dec 28 17:08:49 bakarat, bollocks Dec 28 17:08:57 wayfindeer license cost me so far £18 Dec 28 17:08:58 bakarat, $100 for 3 years of navigation Dec 28 17:09:08 for 1 years actual used nav Dec 28 17:09:11 at my university is a project for routing based on osm Dec 28 17:09:21 but it will be a midlet Dec 28 17:09:22 yeah, but that's just a project Dec 28 17:09:32 but how bad is maemo-mapper at routing? Dec 28 17:09:35 and unless they get huge funding, they access to commercial maps is going to be stupid Dec 28 17:09:35 i mean does it basically not work? Dec 28 17:09:47 s/they/their/ Dec 28 17:09:47 crashanddie meant: and unless their get huge funding, they access to commercial maps is going to be stupid Dec 28 17:09:57 osm will be better at some point Dec 28 17:10:02 bakarat, i believe it uses whichever map repository you configure it to, so if google maps is crap then so is maemo mapper Dec 28 17:10:21 lcuk, its routing capabilities are not really bound to the repo it uses right? Dec 28 17:10:24 and that's really what it's all about... Anyone can have a pretty accurate routing application, but what you really need is the commercial background and guts to do all the processing Dec 28 17:10:39 bakarat, the routing capabilities are downloaded from the internet IIRC Dec 28 17:10:48 yes, really it is (i believe):: maemo mapper is an image based mapper Dec 28 17:10:53 crashanddie, uh...while on the road? :| Dec 28 17:10:55 routing requires vectors Dec 28 17:10:57 bakarat, yes Dec 28 17:11:02 bakarat, you have to download the routes beforehand Dec 28 17:11:05 * lcuk loves vectors Dec 28 17:11:08 crashanddie, well internet is not exactly...accessible from mi car atm :> Dec 28 17:11:13 or on the road over the wireles Dec 28 17:11:16 bakarat, if you make a wrong turn, you have to connect again and download again Dec 28 17:11:18 crashanddie, ye ok, i can live with that Dec 28 17:11:22 crashanddie, hmm Dec 28 17:11:31 gah Dec 28 17:11:41 bakarat, if you want a 100% fulltime purposful GPS unit, go and buy a cheap one from the shop Dec 28 17:11:51 dedicated, you will get more pleasure from it Dec 28 17:11:57 agreed Dec 28 17:12:13 but if you want an allround machine which is capable of much more besides just mapping, go with nokia :) Dec 28 17:12:16 the GPS is an enabler on the n810, not a selling point Dec 28 17:12:23 anybody knows how big a gdbm file can become (as used for sources in meamo mapper ?) Dec 28 17:12:35 gah Dec 28 17:13:35 bakarat, the built in "map" in n810 works without a license and it shows you the same wayfinder maps and highlights places of interest and letts you get to places, but if you NEED the extras of routing and voice overs then you buy a weekly/monthly/yearly subscription Dec 28 17:13:51 the voice-overs are not too important Dec 28 17:13:52 the routing is Dec 28 17:14:04 how often do you NEED directions? Dec 28 17:14:12 well i am working as a consultant Dec 28 17:14:17 so basically everytime i go to a new customer... :> Dec 28 17:14:22 then get a dedicated unit Dec 28 17:14:25 so am I, I don't need a GPS for that Dec 28 17:14:26 or pay up Dec 28 17:14:35 what exactly is the use of a gps unit if it doesn't show routing? Dec 28 17:14:43 i mean, other then "you're here"... what does it do? :| Dec 28 17:14:48 for using in other applications Dec 28 17:15:13 bakarat track your way Dec 28 17:15:22 breadcrumbs Dec 28 17:15:23 Personally, I use Maemo Mapper to give me access to satellite images while boating and hiking Dec 28 17:15:26 btw, the tomtom software has a linux-based version ye? does that run on maemo? Dec 28 17:15:30 As well as for generating tracks. Dec 28 17:15:31 complete openstreetmap Dec 28 17:15:39 find out where your unit is when it's been stolen Dec 28 17:15:47 :> Dec 28 17:15:53 GPS has tons of uses beyond just routing. . . . Dec 28 17:15:53 crashanddie bah thats a way to optimistic Dec 28 17:16:01 woglinde, actually it isn't Dec 28 17:16:05 bakarat, why are you against offering the developers of wayfinder maps some money to keep you updated? Dec 28 17:16:13 woglinde, I just wish I had programmed this some time ago Dec 28 17:16:32 lcuk, cuz the world is supposed to be freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Dec 28 17:16:39 lcuk, and people should work for freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Dec 28 17:16:41 no it isnt Dec 28 17:16:47 so that he can work and make moneeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyy Dec 28 17:16:59 ahhh, hes got a moneyclip Dec 28 17:17:06 and braces Dec 28 17:17:23 bakarat, buy a GPS unit and expense it ffs Dec 28 17:17:32 hes the first highly paid consultant ive heard off that cannot put something like this onto a clients bill Dec 28 17:17:40 heh Dec 28 17:17:43 crashanddie, hehe, will have to ask if i can expense it :> Dec 28 17:17:46 i only just started out Dec 28 17:18:11 bakarat, quite frankly, you won't need a GPS unit Dec 28 17:18:19 crashanddie, o yes i do :| Dec 28 17:18:19 ok, so just starting out, you should be able to take it out of your salary, what is it 35,000 Dec 28 17:18:21 per month? Dec 28 17:18:30 lol :> Dec 28 17:18:54 do you have pointy hair? Dec 28 17:18:55 i have the money to buy it...just not the inclination to spend a crapload of money on a unit that basically acts like a black box with one specific function Dec 28 17:18:57 bakarat, I don't know what your field of work is, but most of the time, just check on google maps where it is, find the nearest tube station, and train yourself at finding shite Dec 28 17:19:10 i like to be in control of the stuff i own and preferably combine as much functionality into one device as possible Dec 28 17:19:20 bakarat, it's what I do, and I get around like that even in the Ukraine ffs :P Dec 28 17:19:23 bakarat, im sure you could find the £80 for a dedicated unit behind your sofa Dec 28 17:19:27 GPS units are cheap these days. Dec 28 17:19:33 crashanddie, trains don't get everywhere quite as fast as a car will get you, at least in this country :> Dec 28 17:19:42 bakarat, what country is that then? Dec 28 17:19:47 crashanddie, belgium Dec 28 17:19:51 heh Dec 28 17:19:59 crashanddie, for instance, one of my potential future customers is bout 2 hours by train, 1 hour by car Dec 28 17:20:00 bakarat, company? Dec 28 17:20:00 ok, convo over im goin hackin. bbl Dec 28 17:20:01 ... :| Dec 28 17:20:11 lcuk, have fun Dec 28 17:20:19 as always Dec 28 17:20:28 crashanddie, cronos Dec 28 17:20:35 bye lcuk Dec 28 17:21:26 heh Dec 28 17:21:42 there's consultancy for what CMS system to use? :P Dec 28 17:21:45 crashanddie, anyway, just printing a google maps image can be pretty hard if you have to be like in the center of brussels Dec 28 17:21:58 bakarat, I live in London Dec 28 17:22:05 bakarat, and come by without a problem :) Dec 28 17:22:10 crashanddie, nice :D Dec 28 17:22:18 crashanddie, i may be spatially challenged then ;) Dec 28 17:22:26 lol Dec 28 17:22:33 nee yo, gewoon maar een belg ;) Dec 28 17:22:39 :> Dec 28 17:22:45 crashanddie, where do you work then? Dec 28 17:22:52 ActivIdentity Dec 28 17:23:26 leuk ;) Dec 28 17:28:37 damnit Dec 28 17:28:48 what's the last you got? Dec 28 17:28:58 name of your company :> Dec 28 17:29:01 lol Dec 28 17:29:07 but yeah, I used to live in belgium, I understand why you'd want a GPS unit Dec 28 17:29:14 bakarat, just ask your manager, tell him how "waar m'n gaat langs vlaamse wegen komt m'n steeds wegomlegingen tegen", and how being late for a meeting with a customer is going to cost them dearly, against the falling prices of GPS units Dec 28 17:29:18 bakarat, you'll have one before the end of the day Dec 28 17:29:30 crashanddie_, not too sure bout that ;) Dec 28 17:29:43 well, do you have a company car? Dec 28 17:29:47 crashanddie_, yup Dec 28 17:29:57 crashanddie_, since i'm rather new, it's still a pool car though Dec 28 17:30:10 regardless Dec 28 17:30:13 crashanddie_, i intended to get my new car with built-in gps, but that has a few drawbacks as well... Dec 28 17:30:15 they provide you with a company car Dec 28 17:31:11 I'm pretty sure a company GPS unit isn't going to cut their margins too heavily Dec 28 17:31:33 crashanddie_, true :P Dec 28 17:31:42 well, will ask first thing tomorrow if the boss is in :P Dec 28 17:32:03 just drop him an email Dec 28 17:32:59 http://www.cnet.com/1990-9360_1-5139482-10.html Dec 28 17:33:04 bakarat, that's for you ;) Dec 28 17:33:15 crashanddie_, hehe, having a look :> Dec 28 17:34:03 crashanddie_, btw, why exactly doesn't the mapper tool support decent routing etc? Dec 28 17:34:08 doesn't seem that hard to me? Dec 28 17:34:22 bakarat, actually it quite is Dec 28 17:34:28 crashanddie_, how so? Dec 28 17:34:38 i have some experience with path finding in games etc Dec 28 17:34:49 the algorithm isn't the problem Dec 28 17:34:50 i can't imagine it being much more difficult then a sort of node-to-node path? Dec 28 17:34:51 ah? Dec 28 17:34:56 what is? Dec 28 17:34:59 bakarat, as I said, you need to have the maps that are up to date and that have enough details to allow you to apply the algorithm Dec 28 17:35:03 and maps are expensive Dec 28 17:35:06 true Dec 28 17:35:21 you could have the best routing software in the world Dec 28 17:35:24 open source or not Dec 28 17:35:36 it wouldn't be free, you'd still have to pay for the maps... Dec 28 17:35:47 crashanddie_, but that's where the open street map thingy comes in, no? Dec 28 17:36:28 I rarely had a look at an OS map where it wasn't between 10 and 50m off target from the GPS data Dec 28 17:37:06 * ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:] Dec 28 17:38:13 right Dec 28 17:41:55 anyway people Dec 28 17:42:03 have a good one, ttyalllater Dec 28 17:42:04 w00t Dec 28 17:56:22 ~ping Dec 28 17:56:23 ~pong Dec 28 17:56:53 ? Dec 28 18:17:27 ok, i have a dilemma Dec 28 18:18:46 i want to develop simultainiously for 2 different targets and run the app on 2 different machines after compilation Dec 28 18:25:00 Bugzilla's down, the wiki's down, the lists are borked. Dec 28 18:25:05 maemo.org is falling apart. Dec 28 18:25:15 Classic Christmas maemo shinanigans :) Dec 28 18:25:32 s/maemo/Maemo/g ;) Dec 28 18:25:47 :o Dec 28 18:26:17 solmumaha: http://blog.rubyx.co.uk/ Dec 28 18:26:29 alterego, http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:XDLl2fPPfMYJ:https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand&hl=en&strip=1 :P Dec 28 18:27:25 I can't believe you just threw me a link about formatting 'Maemo' correctly :P Dec 28 18:27:38 Or is it: Maemo (tm) :) Dec 28 18:27:42 alterego: just when i lost all hope Dec 28 18:27:54 merry christmas to you too Dec 28 18:27:58 :) Dec 28 18:28:29 alterego, a google cache link even. :P Dec 28 18:28:36 :) Dec 28 18:28:46 Does that mean your information is out-of-date? :D Dec 28 18:28:49 alterego, but I figured you might've missed it and might care. ;) Dec 28 18:28:54 Hope not. Dec 28 18:29:08 Unless Nokia's taken the wiki down to s/Maemo/Window Mobile/g Dec 28 18:29:15 Hah Dec 28 18:29:25 alterego: how do those differ from 0.3? Dec 28 18:29:41 solmumaha: basically, functionally they don't. Dec 28 18:29:59 The difference is in how they're packaged and I've cleaned up the source code. Dec 28 18:30:37 Basically, I'm doing spring cleaning on the code, getting myself familiar with it again. Then I'll start working on more features. Dec 28 18:30:48 gregale is now out? Dec 28 18:31:20 Those packages are just maemo4/chinook/diablo Dec 28 18:33:47 alterego: thanks a lot! i really appreciate this Dec 28 18:34:03 It's not problem, I do really want to get back into it :) Dec 28 19:11:55 evening Dec 28 19:12:08 afternoon Dec 28 19:12:16 g'evening Dec 28 19:12:30 hi Stskeeps Dec 28 19:12:41 'lo qwerty12_N800, GAN, etc Dec 28 19:15:29 qwerty12_N800: am i wrong or doesn't googles normal apps work with android / they arent distributable with a new image? Dec 28 19:16:26 like maps, calendar and so on :P just saw some odd posts Dec 28 19:18:15 Stskeeps, not really sure but i think google only lets those be used with a "official" device Dec 28 19:18:53 but i think the emulator has them which makes the above sound odd Dec 28 19:19:25 ah Dec 28 19:19:32 well sdk is a different animal Dec 28 19:20:59 yeah.. Dec 28 19:25:06 re Dec 28 19:28:23 wb b-man Dec 28 19:28:31 hello Dec 28 19:28:46 so how was the installer? Dec 28 19:31:10 well i asked if the simple installer works perfectly :) i pasted an url image earlier to something you can test with Dec 28 19:31:18 b-man: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.tar.gz , test image to test (problem with touchscreen tap though) Dec 28 19:32:04 ok, thanks! Dec 28 19:55:23 emma, is your cat swinging from your net connection again? Dec 28 19:57:50 @ Stskeeps; i herd that you were discontinueing the unrealIRCd progect; http://forums.unrealircd.com/viewtopic.php?t=5701 - that's too bad. :( Dec 28 19:58:45 i herd cats Dec 28 19:59:05 b-man: meh, i'm quitting, a different thing Dec 28 19:59:13 b-man: but yes, that'll be the effective thing happening Dec 28 19:59:29 hehe Dec 28 20:00:07 Stskeeps, just 23 posts? disgraceful. :p Dec 28 20:00:53 qwerty12_N800: i loathed the forums. not my call to start them Dec 28 20:01:04 lol Dec 28 20:01:06 hehe Dec 28 20:01:07 i sat in the support channel from when i started the project, which was 9 years ago, so :P Dec 28 20:01:58 qwerty12, what's X-Fade up to? 12 posts? Dec 28 20:02:22 The SSU thread was just thanks whoring. Dec 28 20:02:45 GAN800, ha. I think you should sort him out ;P Dec 28 20:03:08 I will if we don't get our lists back. :P Dec 28 20:03:51 Hehe, my inbox is home to junk, m-c & m-d make it worthwhile :D Dec 28 20:03:57 everything stops working over the holidays, eh? :P Dec 28 20:05:53 Stskeeps, same as last year Dec 28 20:06:25 at least they aren't releasing a SSU at same time? :P Dec 28 20:07:03 Stskeeps; what did you get for christmas? Dec 28 20:07:43 i didn't get my laptop ;p Dec 28 20:08:13 yet.... Dec 28 20:10:07 (yes, i know, i'm verry, verry random) Dec 28 20:10:38 b-man: book on polish history and a cable to extend 3.5mm stereo.. and another xmas with a parent alive, so it was good Dec 28 20:11:53 my parents bough me a dum rc helocopter.... :P Dec 28 20:12:04 :P Dec 28 20:12:09 meh. slap a beagleboard on it Dec 28 20:12:16 lol Dec 28 20:12:20 not a miinigun? Dec 28 20:12:40 no, a toy helocopter.... Dec 28 20:12:45 :P Dec 28 20:14:12 but i'm still eventually going to get my laptop :) Dec 28 20:15:20 phew, tslib fixed agai Dec 28 20:15:20 n Dec 28 20:17:02 the new dialogs in fremantle are interesting Dec 28 20:18:38 in what ways are thay different? Dec 28 20:18:40 b-man: What laptop? Dec 28 20:18:53 Stskeeps: the close buttons (IIRC)? Dec 28 20:19:01 Jaffa: that too, but also popping up from the bottom Dec 28 20:19:08 Oh, screenshots? Dec 28 20:19:14 or videos Dec 28 20:19:20 lemme see if meiz has any.. Dec 28 20:19:33 @ Vulcanis; i'm planning to buy a dell studio 15.... Dec 28 20:19:47 Yerga's got a crapton of them somewhere - screenshots that is Dec 28 20:20:05 i should see if matchbox 2 will work now.. Dec 28 20:20:12 we use matchbox1 in mer atm Dec 28 20:20:42 * RST38h yawns Dec 28 20:26:07 hi rst Dec 28 20:26:33 * GAN800 can't wait for Fremantle. Dec 28 20:26:43 i will <3 a2dp :P Dec 28 20:31:24 hey, woglinde, gan, sts Dec 28 20:31:37 evening, RST38h Dec 28 20:32:50 Morning guys :) Dec 28 20:33:03 b-man: any girl with trying with the tar.gz? Dec 28 20:33:17 .. Dec 28 20:33:18 luck Dec 28 20:33:33 talk about a freudian slip Dec 28 20:33:33 what? Dec 28 20:33:37 girl? Dec 28 20:33:52 zakkm: yo Dec 28 20:33:55 any luck trying with the tar.gz and your simple installer? :P Dec 28 20:34:18 hows mer coming along? Dec 28 20:34:40 we can make images now, which is a good thing :P Dec 28 20:34:48 hehe Dec 28 20:34:50 zakkm: so i got NITdroid installed Dec 28 20:35:04 Tu13es: he annouced a new update yesterday thats coming Dec 28 20:35:10 woohoo Dec 28 20:35:17 Stskeeps: does that mean i can try it out now? Dec 28 20:35:19 I don't know what to do with it now that it's installed Dec 28 20:35:20 lol Dec 28 20:35:29 heh Dec 28 20:35:47 Tu13es: download android apps to it? :P Dec 28 20:35:49 @Stskeeps testing right now.... Dec 28 20:36:01 zakkm: do I have to grab the apps on PC and then transfer them? Dec 28 20:36:07 I don't know where to begin with apps :P Dec 28 20:36:14 zakkm: getting closer and closer.. Dec 28 20:36:17 Tu13es: just download with the builtin browser and after download it would install it Dec 28 20:36:24 ah, interesting Dec 28 20:36:33 any recommendation of where to download from? Dec 28 20:36:35 much like maemo and "install" buttons Dec 28 20:36:39 yeah Dec 28 20:36:46 androidfreeware.org ? :P Dec 28 20:36:50 * qwerty12_N800 installs through adb, computer's browser is faster :P Dec 28 20:36:51 has meebo ;p Dec 28 20:37:04 havent looked much, been waiting for update.. suppose to have "dualboot" from android and maemo Dec 28 20:37:14 aha, that would be cool Dec 28 20:38:06 Heh, new Nokia phones are full of junkware Dec 28 20:38:17 lol Dec 28 20:38:30 There is "Nokia Download!" which offers "free" applications that all require you to pay for registration Dec 28 20:38:44 There is "my Nokia" offering to subscribe you to SMS messages Dec 28 20:39:14 You can't wipe that shit out, either, can you> Dec 28 20:39:18 ? Dec 28 20:39:19 There is some weird menu that asks you to register for Ovi, Flickr, and some other crap Dec 28 20:39:28 I probably can, just didn't get to it yet Dec 28 20:39:38 Move it to a new folder titled trash Dec 28 20:40:11 is that a roundabout waying of saying you bought a new phone :D Dec 28 20:40:12 But it is incredible how numerous and badly coordinated this crap is Dec 28 20:40:20 See if the hacks work on the phone, having to sign shit sucks ballbags Dec 28 20:40:29 lcuk: Well, that 5800 I ordered for my wife arrived Dec 28 20:40:49 qwerty: most apps will run just fine self-signed Dec 28 20:41:39 lcuk: Had wonderful quasi-erotic intercourse with NSU today (required me to edit the registry and run win installer clenaup tool suggested by qwerty) Dec 28 20:42:56 heh RST38h Dec 28 20:43:29 * lcuk is fighting with library definitions and locations Dec 28 20:43:44 lcuk hehe Dec 28 21:01:42 hmm, got matchbox2 to compile. i wonder what we can do with that.. Dec 28 21:02:52 Using it comes on the top ten suggestions on my list :P Dec 28 21:05:17 Using it where? fremantle? Dec 28 21:05:36 Mer Dec 28 21:05:40 le Mer of course :) Dec 28 21:05:46 ? Dec 28 21:05:48 it needed some dependancies before but it compiles on armel now Dec 28 21:06:16 ~mer Dec 28 21:06:17 rumour has it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint Dec 28 21:06:29 Community backport/sideport of Fremantle. Dec 28 21:07:11 Bit of a rubbish name :P Dec 28 21:07:55 Gonna get yer ass kicked. Dec 28 21:07:55 alterego: Maemo Reconstructed -> M-R -> Mer Dec 28 21:07:56 :P Dec 28 21:08:05 Heh Dec 28 21:08:16 hehe Dec 28 21:08:21 MoR (Maemo on Rails)? Dec 28 21:08:31 * alterego chuckles. Dec 28 21:08:31 lol Dec 28 21:08:57 MaL, Maemo and Lasers Dec 28 21:08:59 Ruby overexpose :) Dec 28 21:11:20 i have some free schotch bonnet pepper paste Dec 28 21:11:24 if someone wants Dec 28 21:13:52 I thought the FIASCO format was already understood. Dec 28 21:16:00 OxFFFF can make them but i dunno if the images produced are 'correct'. the nokia too to generate them may get released Dec 28 21:16:10 s/too/tool/ Dec 28 21:16:10 qwerty12_N800 meant: OxFFFF can make them but i dunno if the images produced are 'correct'. the nokia tool to generate them may get released Dec 28 21:16:51 What's "OHM"? Dec 28 21:17:10 open hardware manager, basically it will replace what mce and dsme did before Dec 28 21:17:12 google for it Dec 28 21:17:31 Yeah, googling the acronym would have been a bad idea though ;) Dec 28 21:17:49 yeah :P Dec 28 21:18:13 Interesting, it's gonna be a freedesktop thing? Dec 28 21:18:58 yeah, think that's the idea - but with some closed plugins Dec 28 21:19:05 which is quite a step up from a closed source daemon Dec 28 21:19:31 waiting for nokia's stuff still though Dec 28 21:19:41 Yeah, still. I wonder why Nokia keeps chosing hardware that requires these closed source components? :/ Dec 28 21:20:10 alterego: well that's life in hw business :P Dec 28 21:20:17 hey Stskeeps Dec 28 21:20:19 :) Dec 28 21:20:33 alterego, probably works in their favour anyway, they are a company after all Dec 28 21:20:49 I think they do it because they use the same chips in their phones. Dec 28 21:20:59 does anybody know if the rotation thingy works with the new ssu ? Dec 28 21:21:26 evening moontiger Dec 28 21:23:05 * moontiger lags to hell and back Dec 28 21:24:24 Well "Mer" sounds like a pretty neat idea. Dec 28 21:24:34 * Stskeeps waits for the "but" ;) Dec 28 21:24:36 Though, sounds like a lot of work .. Dec 28 21:24:40 ;) Dec 28 21:24:43 you'd think so, really Dec 28 21:24:57 it is actually easy to get a sane hildon going Dec 28 21:25:14 http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/NokiaN810Mer (look through these) Dec 28 21:25:16 What's the current status? Or is it still in the ether at the moment? Dec 28 21:26:22 getting closer to getting a -good- demo image that we can get people working on. it'd be a base hildon desktop probably :P Dec 28 21:26:34 alterego, well there's an open wifi driver for WLAN on both the N8x0 and RX-51 anyway Dec 28 21:26:58 The rest of the hardware stuff is either "differentiation" (MCE) or legal liability issues (BME). Dec 28 21:27:34 hows the battery life on mer compared to maemo? Dec 28 21:27:46 and speed? :D Dec 28 21:28:06 Stskeeps: as soon as you got a full image to try, im so in for testing :) Dec 28 21:28:32 did you guys make a theme for mer? it looks nice Dec 28 21:28:41 zakkm: speed is harmed by the lack of manual updates/XDamage like stuff really. battery life, i'm keeping out of that until OHM is out, to align with fremantle Dec 28 21:28:53 zakkm: that's one of the nokia themes from diablo i think Dec 28 21:29:03 the pretty theme, that is Dec 28 21:29:10 it so doesnt look like it, at least not official theme Dec 28 21:29:36 the background is different Dec 28 21:29:40 and the left thing i think Dec 28 21:30:01 http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/NokiaN810Mer#5277122369401603346 <-- so does not match any nokia theme Dec 28 21:30:10 at least none i know of Dec 28 21:30:16 zakkm: plankton Dec 28 21:30:23 with his own background Dec 28 21:30:27 Yeah, Plankton. . . . Dec 28 21:30:41 Official Nokia open source theme Dec 28 21:30:59 last time i used plankton it didnt look like that? Dec 28 21:31:14 Question mark? Dec 28 21:31:35 oh sorry Dec 28 21:31:52 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/12pt-hildon-theme-plankton/ would this work? Dec 28 21:31:55 id rather 12pt Dec 28 21:32:18 Not for OS2008 Dec 28 21:33:36 Get it from the sdk repo and you can edit the gtkrc to make it 12pt for diablo Dec 28 21:34:53 where is the sdk repo? Dec 28 21:35:21 in this instance, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/h/hildon-theme-plankton/ Dec 28 21:36:08 Nokia also have a theme which is Echo but in red, hated it Dec 28 21:36:17 hehh Dec 28 21:36:28 i tried the old os2007 one and it made it plain gtk theme ;p Dec 28 21:37:12 should i install that deb and then edit gtkrc on the tablet ? Dec 28 21:37:25 You won't believe the lengths i went to try and get adria in os2007... Dec 28 21:37:39 *os2008 Dec 28 21:37:54 whats adria? Dec 28 21:38:12 Where's the instructions for installing maemo SDK under sbox2? Dec 28 21:38:23 o Dec 28 21:38:23 yeah, edit the right one in /usr/share/themes/plankton/gtk-2.0/gtkrc Dec 28 21:38:46 wow plain gtk finger keyboard looks weird :D Dec 28 21:39:23 qwerty12_N800, :shudder: Dec 28 21:39:27 Ah, found it. Dec 28 21:39:36 GAN8001, :P Dec 28 21:42:31 would 10 or 11pt work? well? Dec 28 21:45:10 i'm either going blind or i can't find where matchbox is started in fremantle sdk. Dec 28 21:46:18 what line should i look for in gtkrc? Dec 28 21:46:49 osso-systemfont? Dec 28 21:47:00 nokia Sans 16.75 ? Dec 28 21:52:50 what would be my ssh password? Dec 28 21:53:11 Why are people on Bugzilla so difficult? Dec 28 21:53:11 These are some really interesting questions zakkm ... Dec 28 21:53:21 lol Dec 28 21:53:24 sorry :( Dec 28 21:54:23 heh i needed to change root on my nokia Dec 28 21:55:13 andre__, ping? Dec 28 21:58:50 * zakkm thinks nano should be added to extras Dec 28 22:01:12 they want us to learn how to use vi :) Dec 28 22:01:30 Oh, right, THAT'S why this guy is such a pain in the ass: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3683 Dec 28 22:04:27 vi sucks on nokia though Dec 28 22:04:38 Works just fine for me. Dec 28 22:04:39 Wow, he's angry. Dec 28 22:04:50 Better than nano. At least it doesn't segfault when searching Dec 28 22:05:15 *thinks the builtin email client works fine* Dec 28 22:05:36 alterego, it was that guy, I think, that started spamming insults at my inbox as a result of that bug. Dec 28 22:05:41 I've not actually been using it to be honest :) Dec 28 22:05:46 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3967 Dec 28 22:06:25 Someone should tell him to actually try the modest with the latest ssu first :) Dec 28 22:08:31 anywhere here have a plankton with lower pt? ;p Dec 28 22:08:47 qwerty12_N800, feel free. :P Dec 28 22:09:17 GAN8001, only if you agree to be my bodyguard first :P Dec 28 22:09:25 Pfft Dec 28 22:09:34 A gangbanger like you don't need no protection. :P Dec 28 22:09:57 http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/NokiaN810Mer#5277122369401603346 you guys know what background image that is? Dec 28 22:10:14 lol Dec 28 22:10:21 what, seems to work well Dec 28 22:11:04 zakkm: some thing he found on some gnome site.. i think Dec 28 22:13:15 ok, i'm not seeing things, is maemo fremantle pre-alpha -really- not starting matchbox at af-sb-init? :P Dec 28 22:13:50 You're blind now? Dec 28 22:13:59 That may put a crimp in our Mer plans. . . . Dec 28 22:14:00 mm Dec 28 22:14:28 i was talking to a guy the other day, who was blind, and wanted to go to college and study comp.sci Dec 28 22:14:33 think it might actually be possible Dec 28 22:15:00 Screen readers and braille. Dec 28 22:15:03 No problem at all. Dec 28 22:15:22 yeah Dec 28 22:15:31 together with LaTeX you can do nice looking math handins too :P Dec 28 22:18:35 hm, did yerga's scrshots include the file chooser? Dec 28 22:19:01 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/fremantlefilechooser.png Dec 28 22:19:32 (you can use dpad on it) Dec 28 22:19:53 or kinetic scrolling Dec 28 22:20:16 ping! Dec 28 22:20:22 pung Dec 28 22:20:43 brapp Dec 28 22:21:20 * alterego wonders if fremantle will use sbox2 Dec 28 22:21:54 alterego: maemo-sdk+ exists though Dec 28 22:22:10 which is the future. when .. it.. manifests Dec 28 22:22:32 Yeah, I've noticed it only goes to Diable 4.1.1 Dec 28 22:23:39 I am looking to clone the OS to external SD. What is the easiest way to do that? I have seen several ways on the forum. Dec 28 22:23:58 cars__: read them all and see which one seems the easiest. Dec 28 22:27:13 It's on RC1 though, which has got to be promising :) Dec 28 22:31:15 alterego, Yes, but I'm confused. The DEB looks the easiest, but apparently penguinbait isn't supporting it anymore. it seems like I would need to do the cloning, etc. every time Nokia pushes an OS update, correct? Dec 28 22:31:41 I don't know, I have no idea what you're doing. Dec 28 22:33:41 cars__: console-tools replace Dec 28 22:34:34 console-tools replaces the deb method? Dec 28 22:37:43 mm think so Dec 28 22:41:47 has anyone tried the titan theme, it seems the background image is greyed out (it was earlier using a great background) Dec 28 22:41:56 stskeeps: thanks. when partitioning, do you know if I can create a swap partition instead of using the OS's virtual memory feature? Or do they do the same thing? Dec 28 22:41:59 <`Mace> hm Dec 28 22:42:04 <`Mace> have to update my zimbra install Dec 28 22:42:28 sin18: I have it - I'll check Dec 28 22:42:40 sin18, agreed, the old background was better so I extracted the background from the old deb Dec 28 22:43:57 cars__, qwerty12_N800 : strange .... i thought it was a bug rather than the author's choice to use a different img Dec 28 22:44:04 i'm having strange problems with fsck; Dec 28 22:44:06 fsck.swap: not found Dec 28 22:44:20 Error 2 while executing fsck.swap for /dev/mmcblk0p2 Dec 28 22:44:47 swap files are checked for errors? Dec 28 22:44:48 dont fsck a swap partition? Dec 28 22:46:21 sin18: the background is looking OK for me, and I can change it. It looks like the same image as when I installed it. Maybe I didn't see the old image. Dec 28 22:47:48 cars__ :if u r seeing the default grey img and havent seen the original img then i guess u dont know what u r missing :) Dec 28 22:48:17 Indeed :) Dec 28 22:51:00 <`Mace> Stskeeps - :) i think i know why it was running like crap. i left an XP vm open Dec 28 22:51:20 <`Mace> it was still turned on and I hadn't noticed Dec 28 23:00:34 Meiz_n810: tslib fixed Dec 28 23:00:51 finally! Dec 28 23:01:07 by ubuntu-team or johnx? Dec 28 23:01:40 me Dec 28 23:03:26 is it possible to do clone to sd yet with newest ssu? Dec 28 23:04:15 Stskeeps: :) Dec 28 23:04:26 zakkm: yes Dec 28 23:04:43 with pb:s console-tools Dec 28 23:05:16 sweet ill do that tonight then Dec 28 23:05:21 i got no free space messages from maemo ;p Dec 28 23:10:16 #mAeMo? Dec 28 23:10:38 elEeT Dec 28 23:11:59 you guys know why my nokia only goes to about 15% progress.. and then reboots? Dec 28 23:13:15 ! Dec 28 23:13:20 zakkm: it requires a sssssacrifice! Dec 28 23:13:22 tablet-wireless Dec 28 23:13:29 :P Dec 28 23:13:32 well it works unless i like hold power button Dec 28 23:13:35 which i think is really odd Dec 28 23:13:42 if i hold power button as its going, it works Dec 28 23:13:44 otherwise it doesnt Dec 28 23:14:01 Stskeeps: do need for deblet packages anymore to get wlan? Dec 28 23:14:09 s/do/no/ Dec 28 23:14:10 Meiz_n810 meant: Stskeeps: no need for deblet packages anymore to get wlan? Dec 28 23:16:09 actually, I always hold the power button for a least a few seconds Dec 28 23:16:50 RST38h: during progress bar Dec 28 23:16:53 not turning on nokia Dec 28 23:17:04 during maemo progress bar .. if i dont the tablet freezes and reboots Dec 28 23:18:47 ~ping Dec 28 23:18:48 ~pong Dec 28 23:19:20 GAN8001, pong Dec 28 23:20:15 during progress bar, yes Dec 28 23:22:27 What is the name of that pira^H^H^Hfilesharing service from Nokia? Dec 28 23:23:08 mosh? Dec 28 23:23:15 Yes, thanks! Dec 28 23:26:39 <`Mace> blah Dec 28 23:26:41 <`Mace> goddamn zimbra Dec 28 23:26:48 <`Mace> they need to seriously fix the bug i reported Dec 28 23:28:37 anyone know a cheap bluetooth keyboard? Dec 28 23:29:10 Apple. Dec 28 23:29:18 it works? Dec 28 23:30:17 Yes. Dec 28 23:30:28 I have an iGo keyboard Dec 28 23:30:31 from... somewhere Dec 28 23:30:41 But please keep in mind that neither BT nor USB keyboards work very well. Dec 28 23:30:48 They lag. A lot. Dec 28 23:31:25 rst lol Dec 28 23:31:37 they may work or not Dec 28 23:31:59 a second or two lag makes it unusable for me - I type fast =( Dec 28 23:32:27 BTW, another salivation subject: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/12/12-28-08vaiop.jpg Dec 28 23:34:38 And, of course, NYTimes uncovers The Terrible Truth: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/business/28digi.html?_r=1 (no, nothing will change) Dec 28 23:35:18 dang Dec 28 23:35:29 i want to be able to type assignments and stuff Dec 28 23:36:07 would mplayer-plugin work? :) Dec 28 23:36:12 on microb? Dec 28 23:36:21 for typing assignments? no. Dec 28 23:37:03 :( Dec 28 23:37:11 i wanted to be able to be in skool .. have my keyboard out and type Dec 28 23:37:15 in like leafpad or something Dec 28 23:37:33 It is possible but very laggy Dec 28 23:37:51 You will have to get used to not looking at the screen Dec 28 23:37:59 lol Dec 28 23:38:01 that sucks Dec 28 23:38:10 no development stuff being done on it? Dec 28 23:38:32 there is a bug filed in bugzilla but it is being ignored at the moment Dec 28 23:38:33 are you talking to me? Dec 28 23:38:49 b-man ? Dec 28 23:39:04 wow youtube.com is playable? Dec 28 23:39:16 i always thought that was a big problem for the tablets Dec 28 23:39:29 hm nokia has a deal with adobe Dec 28 23:39:29 not if you do it carefully Dec 28 23:39:44 so they got the falsyplayer compiled for arm Dec 28 23:39:53 flashplayer Dec 28 23:39:58 I hope the got 10 for remantle Dec 28 23:40:10 hardware acceleration :) Dec 28 23:40:10 if you have got more than one flash object on a page, it usually sends browserd into a fit Dec 28 23:40:35 @ zakkm; youtube isn't so bad for me - do you have vertual memory enabled? Dec 28 23:40:40 yes i do Dec 28 23:40:48 hmm Dec 28 23:40:49 flashplayer performance actually does not have much to do with hw acceleration Dec 28 23:41:03 i know but isnt that what 10 was suppose to bring Dec 28 23:41:09 i know 9 supposely has but yeah Dec 28 23:41:31 mmm...I do not thikn it has anything to do with our flashplayer, sorry Dec 28 23:41:55 Maemo flashplayer busyloops for timing. That is what causes performance problems Dec 28 23:42:13 should have mplayer-plugin :) Dec 28 23:42:55 anyways, sleep time. Dec 28 23:43:12 mplayer-plugin sounds like a nice idea :) Dec 28 23:44:19 i believe we allrety have a plugin - i think.... Dec 28 23:44:38 the mplayer browser plugin Dec 28 23:44:49 yah :) Dec 28 23:44:50 to make youtube use mplayer instead of adobe flash? Dec 28 23:45:01 mplayer could run it very easily / low cpu usage ;p Dec 28 23:45:31 kmplayer is good with youtube... Dec 28 23:45:45 but thats a seperate program .. Dec 28 23:45:55 mplayerplugin will replace flash.. .on sites Dec 28 23:46:05 and use mplayer to do the playback Dec 28 23:46:08 qwerty12_N800: #mAeMo? Dec 28 23:46:49 Meiz_n810, i was bored when entering automaic join settings in xchat :-) Dec 28 23:47:14 :) Dec 28 23:49:56 it looks like someone stole Stskeeps username over at DeviantArt; http://stskeeps.deviantart.com/ Dec 28 23:55:23 * qwerty12_N800 grumbles as he tries to get oidentd to play nice with his tablet + router Dec 29 00:11:44 @qwerty12_N800; lol Dec 29 00:12:35 how was the restore? Dec 29 00:13:21 lol Dec 29 00:13:21 Pretty much normal, I was lucky I had a recent backup :) Dec 29 00:14:07 that was close ;) - i've done that before - didn't turn out well. Dec 29 00:15:29 http://qwerty12.deviantart.com/ Dec 29 00:16:02 Heh Dec 29 00:16:28 http://b-man16.deviantart.com/ Dec 29 00:16:33 lol Dec 29 00:41:05 b-man, seriously Dec 29 00:41:15 b-man, so many mistakes in so little text? Dec 29 00:41:16 what? Dec 29 00:41:45 your deviantart profile Dec 29 00:41:50 no! Dec 29 00:42:10 that's someone else!!!!! Dec 29 00:42:10 "IornMan" Dec 29 00:42:17 ah Dec 29 00:42:17 no!!!!!! Dec 29 00:42:28 good then Dec 29 00:43:30 * alterego works on a new sb2 based studio VM :) Dec 29 00:45:39 http://maemo.deviantart.com/ - lol Dec 29 01:33:06 andre__, it was something else previously, but now I want to know if we can just put David on the 3-strike program. Dec 29 01:34:23 heh Dec 29 01:36:08 It was him that sent those insane emails, wasn't it? Dec 29 02:34:31 seen the linux-powered humanoid robot? i-sobot? Dec 29 02:36:10 is cheap Dec 29 02:36:48 urls? or it didn't happen Dec 29 02:41:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke6bZxFUz0E Dec 29 02:41:23 runs Angstrom Mousey Dec 29 02:44:50 meh Dec 29 02:45:52 it's a toy..... Dec 29 02:46:21 :/ Dec 29 02:46:40 yeah Dec 29 02:52:06 angstrom linux is cool tho Dec 29 02:52:28 i don't consider it a robot if it has a remote control. =) Dec 29 02:56:10 hi, I'm wondering if anybody can help me. I've run into troubles installing a couple of packages - avahi-daemon is one - with errors such as Dec 29 02:56:10 invoke-rc.d: not a symlink: "/etc/rc2.d/S14avahi-daemon" Dec 29 02:56:10 invoke-rc.d: dangling symlink: "/etc/rc2.d/S14avahi-daemon" Dec 29 02:56:10 these happen in the postinst script - but if I try calling invoke-rc.d at the cmd line, it fails as well. Anybody familiar with this? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 29 02:59:56 2008